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December 27, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 27 December 2023

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General Debate

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Chuck Bird

This is about the underwater volcanos near Antarctica. We could get sudden sea level rise and it would have nothing to do with CO2.

Judith Curry | Clip | Mind the Shift clips

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgZS60mmq7U
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December 27, 2023 8:03am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Ian Wishart summarises the recent studies on the geothermal heat fluxes under the West Antarctic Ice sheet…and the way such studies have been ignored by the IPCC reports.
  
  https://theoutdoorphonestore.com/175635/volcanoes-melting-antarctica-why-did-un-ipcc-ar6-report-hide-the-science/
  
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  December 27, 2023 8:24am
  - kevn
    
    Tax will sort it…
    
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    December 27, 2023 8:25am
    - kowtow
      
      Along with a good dose of White Guilt.
      
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      December 27, 2023 9:42am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    I assume the question asked in that URL is rhetorical. Everybody knows why the UN and IPCC hide or ignore the science.
    
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    December 27, 2023 11:13am
  - all true
    
    Climate change is as big as Covid was, just huge scam.
    Making people confused and scared to extract some more hard earned dollars in form of some levies and/or taxes.
    
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    December 27, 2023 1:17pm
    - Surely Knott
      
      We were wrong about “the science is settled “ covid scam. And the “science is settled” ozone hole cfc scam. Despite the world being forced to follow the WHO’s extreme measures, Covid is widespread and endemic and not eliminated. Similarly, The ozone hole is as big as ever the media just doesn’t report on it as often.
      
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      December 28, 2023 10:58am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    I’m not aware of any volcanoes under the Arctic ice, but it’s melting too.
    
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    December 27, 2023 1:39pm
    - Keith White
      
      And now the ice in my drink is melting. Oh, woe.
      
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      December 27, 2023 3:07pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    The other great accelerator of glacier slippage is (surprise) surface meltwater. It vanishes down crevasses, then the pressure at the bottom is enough to open the crevasses further so water gets between the rock and the glacier … Greenland glaciers seem to be affected by this.
    
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    December 27, 2023 2:13pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Boag this happens frequently. It’s called summer in Greenland.
      
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      December 27, 2023 8:52pm
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  Well yeah, but I don’t really see how you get from that to “and therefore it’s pointless trying to do anything about greenhouse gas emissions”. My house might be destroyed in an earthquake or a tidal wave, since I live fairly near the coast in Wellington, but that doesn’t mean it’s not worth maintaining the electric, plumbing and gas systems in it
  
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  December 27, 2023 8:29am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Anyone with a functioning brain cell knows that, as far as New Zealand’s concerned, it is in fact totally pointless trying “to do anything about greenhouse gas emissions” unless of course you’re trying to increase them, which is a boon to the planet.
    
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    December 27, 2023 11:16am
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      Some people do indeed think that, but my point is that that argument is unaffected either way by these findings about Antarctic volcanoes.
      
      Imagine you strongly believe that Auckland is the best place to live in New Zealand. Will you change your mind if I argue, cats are obligate carnivores, here are references to many scientific papers in support of that, and therefore Wellington is the best place to live in New Zealand?
      
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      December 27, 2023 12:10pm
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        Dudley,
        Of course if you take the view that none of us can make a discernible difference, none of us will do anything. Which is a position that suits many of the regular climate change commenters on Kiwiblog, given that many of them think it is a hoax anyway.
        
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        December 27, 2023 3:58pm
      - rouppe
        
        @Wayne, the point in the new zealand context is that even if everybody does something, the quantum of greenhouse gas emissions reduction from new zealand does nothing for global emissions.
        
        That’s not say say we do nothing. We should be looking at the most pressing environmental problem for new zealand. And that is water quality.
        
        The money being spent on climate change could solve all of the water infrastructure problems, plus solve slash problems, plus track and trace polluting discharge into streams and rivers.
        
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        December 27, 2023 6:35pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Wayne Mapp your inference is that sceptics of climate alarmism (many senior climate scientists with 100s of published papers to their names) are believers in some kooky conspiracy theory. No, unlike the climate alarmists they believe in strict adherence to the scientific method.
        
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        December 27, 2023 8:55pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Quaff the premise of your analogy is that climate alarmism is as rock solid and believable as systems that are proven to work like electric grids, plumbing and gas systems. There are numerous highly credible and totally scientific take-downs of the alarmist *hypothesis* (for that is all it is). Building a model which assumes your *hypothesis* is correct is not proof that the *hypothesis* is correct.
    
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    December 27, 2023 9:01pm
  - Surely Knott
    
    Why do so many people who claim to believe in climate alarmism live on the coast with some of the green voting strongholds being coastal villages and outer islands of Auckland.?
    
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    December 28, 2023 10:54am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Um, it would still be a huge CO2 problem, one volcano blast can equal all of man made CO2 for a year
  
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  December 27, 2023 10:32am
  - Matt Long
    
    G, you’re failing to understand that The Science (Trademark.) can differentiate between different types of CO² and other GGs and pick out the ones that cause Catastrophic Global Boiling.
    For example methane emitted by cows as part of the CO² CH⁴ pasture carbon capture cycle is absolutely deadly. Methane emitted by swamps actually cools the planet.
    Unfortunately many people who went to school last century cannot grasp post truth The Science.
    
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    December 27, 2023 11:10am
    - Michael Johnston
      
      The definite article being used before ‘science’ is a fairly reliable indicator of bullshit.
      
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      December 27, 2023 11:30am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Okay, it’s all our farting then, not volcanic farting
      
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      December 27, 2023 11:40am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Yes volcanic eruptions periodically blast carbon dioxide and other gases into the atmosphere. That’s been going on forever. But, after being fairly stable for thousands of years, atmospheric CO2 has risen rapidly from 280 ppm in 1750 to 420 ppm now. That’s a 50% increase that coincides with the industrial age. It is abundantly clear that our activities have driven most of this increase. There were plenty of volcanic eruptions during the preceding millennia (for instance, Taupo erupted 3,500 years ago, and more violently 1,800 yrs ago), yet atmospheric CO2 varied little during said period. Hence the focus on human-caused emissions.
    
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    December 27, 2023 1:55pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      see my comment below – volcano Co2 emissions are trivial.
      
      A huge volcanic eruption (e.g. Toba. Taupo) drastically cools the climate through dust, ash and sulphur. However that is an entirely separate topic.
      
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      December 27, 2023 3:12pm
    - David Garrett
      
      Pope: how pray do we know what the CO2 in ppm was in 1750??
      
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      December 27, 2023 6:07pm
      - Colville
        
        Ice samples
        
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        December 27, 2023 6:18pm
    - rouppe
      
      But, after being fairly stable for thousands of years, atmospheric CO2 has risen rapidly from 280 ppm in 1750 to 420 ppm now.
      
      First, thousands of years? Are you kidding me? You’re talking in thousands of years? Climate is millions of years.
      
      Second, you’re talking like co2 never went above 280ppm before your thousands year timescale. They have been as high as 4000ppm in the Cambrian period.
      
      So, is co2 currently rising likely due to human influence? Let’s say it is. The question is, is that going to mean the end of all life on earth?
      
      The fact there’s plenty of life after co2 has been as high as 4000ppm suggests not. Just like the coral refs have survived a 120m sea level rise since the last ice age.
      
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      December 27, 2023 6:45pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      CO2 in ice cores diffuses out as the snow gets compressed under the weight of more snow. This tends to flatten out any changes. There is another proxy method of determining how much Co2 was in the atmosphere and that is plant stomata (Co2 breathing hole) counts. Regardless, remember even the ice core proxies clearly show that Co2 rises AFTER the temp rises. The opposite of what the career climastrologists tell us. Around 97% of Co2 is emitted from the biosphere (plant decay, animals, insects) and the oceans (they absorb Co2 when the planet cools and release it when it warms). Humans contribute around 3% these days. China and India are probably going to stop going hard on being the major contributors of human Co2 until at least 2060. This simply will swamp all the western token yet economically suicidal Co2 virtue signalling efforts.
      
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      December 27, 2023 9:14pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    You will be aware that I am a critic of many climate change policies. However, you cannot make up your own facts. Al the active volcanos globally, combined, account for less than one percent of the emissions from human activities.
    
    https://skepticalscience.com/volcanoes-and-global-warming.htm
    
    To put that into perspective – take the Mount St Helens eruption in 1980. In 2023 human activities produce the equivalent Co2 emissions of that eruption in 2.5 hours.
    
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    December 27, 2023 3:10pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      skeptical science is the alarmist propaganda site courtesy of alarmist propagandist John Cook and pals. John Cook is behind the shonky 97% consensus shenanigans (and also Naomi Oreskes with a similar sham consensus stunt before him). John was bagging highly accomplished and senior climate physicists as “misinformers” and similar rubbish while he himself at the time was a dropout undergrad.
      
      Many serious climate scientists have tried to debate the propagandists on SS but of course have been shut down.
      
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      December 27, 2023 10:21pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  On a quick check, these volcanoes were discovered many years ago. Has there been any change in volcanic activity? It just does not seem plausible that these volcanoes rather than increases in mean temperature in Antarctica are responsible for the loss of the ice.
  
  On a quick search there are many analysts who debunk the theory, e.g.
  
  https://climatefactchecks.org/post-falsely-claims-antarctic-ice-is-melting-only-due-to-volcanic-activity-and-has-no-link-with-anthropogenic-warming/
  
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  December 27, 2023 12:03pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    The person does not put their name or qualifications to their opinion. Who claimed that the melting was only due to volcanic heating. The items by Dr Curry or Ian Wishart make no such claim.
    
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    December 27, 2023 12:16pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Work on the geothermal heat flux under the ice is still at a pretty young stage…(really only being tackled in the last 10 years or so)
    
    https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1029/2022GC010501?trk=public_post_comment-text
    
    Many of the volcanoes under the West Antarctic Ice sheet were only discovered 6-7 years ago.
    
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/12/scientists-discover-91-volcanos-antarctica
    
    There’s a hell of a lot of unknowns that seem to have bypassed the settled science crew.
    
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    December 27, 2023 12:18pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      There are 138 Undersea Volcanoes discovered in West Antarctica.
      They are warming the water but nothing drastic.
      We wont see dramatic or even increased sea level rise.
      Its too cold there.
      
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      December 27, 2023 12:42pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        The concern about the volcanoes is that they will heat the ice where it touches the land and a huge amount of ice will slid into the sea.
        
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        December 27, 2023 1:04pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        The ice is over 1km+ thick above the Volcano
        Any warming is localised and is not causing that big a problem.
        This has been well researched since they discovered them in 2013
        They have noted two previous eruptions which had some effect but nothing catastrophic.
        
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        December 27, 2023 2:37pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        Have you read Ian Wiahart’s report that Maggy posted the link to earlier?
        
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        December 27, 2023 2:45pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Yes Chuck I did.
        Ive also read stuff from NASA, Nature and New Scientist along with a plethora of articles on WUWT- and I have read Judith Curry before…
        I dont think the sea level is going to rise 5m…
        
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        December 27, 2023 4:26pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        “I dont think the sea level is going to rise 5m…”
        
        I do not either and I do not think Dr Curry said it would.
        
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        December 27, 2023 5:36pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Chuck
        
        This whole “Antarctic Ice Shelf” will slice into the sea thing, is scaremongering. The forces, energy, heat required to overcome coefficient of friction, thermal mass, thermal conductivity losses, ice compression, inertia, etc, and produce a smooth lake with a flat ice bottom are immense, and clearly beyond your comprehension.
        
        If that was possible, despite all those counter forces, glaciers that are downward sloping and in ambient air temperatures, yet said glaciers only move very slowly. And glaciers have 3/4 of 5/8 of 1/100,000,000 of fuck all friction to overcome compared to the ice in Antarctica.
        
        And as I said yesterday, the base of Antarctic could be a 1km thick piece of highly polished flat stainless steel and the ice would still not slide into the sea.
        
        Physics is not your strong point.
        
        The beings/Gods/Aliens/Matrix that created this planet are/were not as dumb as you make them out to be. They are far smarter than you.
        
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        December 27, 2023 6:08pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        JackRabbit
        
        I am basing my view on Dr Curry and Ian Wishart. What is your name and qualifiactions?
        
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        December 27, 2023 7:12pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    I thought the ones in Antartica were below the sea, melting ice with the temp nearby the ice shelf
    
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    December 27, 2023 12:24pm
  - CJames
    
    BY
    In the recent book by Colin Monteith on Erebus, he noted that the ice down there was over 1000m thicker just 20,000 years ago. Then long before SUVs, it and the North American icecap started melting. That caused sea levels to rise about 120m in a very short period. There is no monitoring of most of the Antarctic volcanoes. No-one knows what their long term history is, even basic stuff like are the in an active or dormant phase. Look at the history of Deception Island down there.
    In the 1750s, the terminal face of the Franz Josef was 3km from the sea. Even now, most of the loss of glacier volume in NZ after 1750 was before 1950.
    There are a lot of things which cause ice-caps and glaciers to have mass loss – for Kilimanjaro it was the felling of the forests on its flanks.
    To put all the changes down to magical CO2 is not scientific, just modern-day witchdoctoring.
    
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    December 27, 2023 12:38pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Exit Glacier, Seward, Alaska has been receding since way before the industrial revolution. Not going into it all again. I have been there twice.
      
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      December 27, 2023 1:10pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      We can play this citation game all day I guess.
      
      “The Antarctic ice sheet’s mass has changed over the last decades. Research based on satellite data indicates that between 2002 and 2023, Antarctica shed an average of 150 billion metric tons of ice per year, adding to global sea level rise.”
      
      https://climate.nasa.gov/climate_resources/265/video-antarctic-ice-mass-loss-2002-2023/
      
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      December 27, 2023 3:15pm
      - CJames
        
        BY
        The citation game is risky. Here it is gaining 300Gt in 2022.
        https://indiannewslink.co.nz/antarctica-gained-surface-ice-mass-in-2022-study/
        But yes, it is most likely losing mass overall – probably been doing that since the 1840s when it was first documented. But it won’t collapse and slide into the sea in the future, even on centuries time scale. The edge of the Ross Ice Shelf is where it was in Scott’s time. Fly over something like the Tucker glacier and you will soon realise just how vast everything is.
        All the numbers are just thrown in to scare people who don’t know how big things really are. Look at size of the two big ice caps and then work out how long they will last at that melt rate.
        
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        December 27, 2023 4:01pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        NASA = Never A Straight Answer.
        
        Citations are pointless. According to another NASA page on their website from about 2016, they admitted that the Antarctic ice sheets have been increasing not decreasing, contrary to earlier statements that the Antarctic ice sheet was decreasing.
        
        It all depends who is in control of the dept at the time.
        
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        December 27, 2023 6:16pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        For example of media, including NASA, contradictions:
        
        Stuff have been telling us that its getting hotter and hotter – hottest ever, and then an unbiased Stuff journo presents the truth – that it has not been as hot as 50 years ago.
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/canterbury/301007474/nzs-hottest-day-ever-melted-roads-workers-striked-and-it-killed-26000-chickens
        
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        December 27, 2023 6:23pm
- Raphael
  
  they already tried blaming any ocean warming from those volcanoes on man-made climate change years ago. the basic argument is that that if we cause any ice melt, it will affect the plate tectonics, making volcanoes go boom.
  
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  December 27, 2023 11:45pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Toyota-owned carmaker Daihatsu has closed all four of its plants until the end of January, after admitting it had falsified safety tests. Of the 64 models involved in the scandal, 24 are sold with Toyota branding.

Daihatsu admitted that it had been manipulating safety tests on 64 makes for three decades. “what seems to have happened is that they tested a car with components in and then sold a car with different components in”.

There will be a lot of cars in NZ that fall into this category.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67822887
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December 27, 2023 8:07am
- kevn
  
  Never… My Toyota Yaris is a ‘1 Star Safety Rating’, maybe it will become a 1/2 Star.
  
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  December 27, 2023 9:39am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Sitting in the misses Yaris now, it would sqwish like a can of sardines in a decent smash
    
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    December 27, 2023 10:34am
- dubya
  
  So are you saying… Daihatsu’s safety testing was all a Charade?!
  
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  December 27, 2023 9:46am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    It was an omen
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daihatsu_Charade
    
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    December 27, 2023 10:24am
    - crikey
      
      It was a charade!
      
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      December 27, 2023 12:36pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Jap crap !
    
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    December 27, 2023 10:34am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Ever driver a Lexis?
      
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      December 27, 2023 1:11pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        drive* ffs.
        Got caught again. I do not see any mistake because I seem to see the comment as an image.
        Good days and bad days,
        
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        December 27, 2023 1:40pm
mandk

The regular afternoon show on NewstalkZB can be annoying, but I briefly tuned in to the summer replacement show yesterday afternoon and I couldn’t tolerate more than a couple of minutes.

The host was someone called Frances Cook and it was just unbearable. She was whiny and bossy.

It was like having to listen to my ex when she was grumpy.
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December 27, 2023 8:17am
- ecco
  
  30 something, self appointed personal finance writer who has an nzh podcast. I listened to her a couple of times. Pretty light weight stuff and I desisted pretty quickly from listening to any more of her podcasts. I guess it’s hard to find presenters in the holiday season. Plunket’s just doing reruns and music over the xmas break. If you want some decent long form interviews then maybe subscribe to his channel and get access to the archived interviews.
  
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  December 27, 2023 9:43am
  - Observer of Life
    
    Try Leighton Smith’s podcasts.
    
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    December 27, 2023 10:17am
  - mandk
    
    Good lord. It that the same person.
    
    I have read a couple of her columns and she comes across quite well in them.
    
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    December 27, 2023 11:31am
- pdm
  
  Hard to argue with that mandk.
  
  Mind you had you stayed with them until 4pm you probably would have copped Tim Roxburgh.
  
  He makes Cook seem like an out of control libertarian.
  
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  December 27, 2023 9:50am
kiwikidsnz

Well, he would know.

“Speaking to the bill earlier this year, former revenue minister David Parker said: “In the absence of facts about actual outcomes, half-truths can be too easily manipulated to suit political objectives and vested interests.”

https://www.thepost.co.nz/a/nz-news/350136899/tax-law-youve-probably-never-heard-and-why-government-wants-keep-it-way?utm_source=stuff_website&utm_medium=stuff_referral&utm_campaign=mh_stuff&utm_id=mh_stuff
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December 27, 2023 8:17am
Opie

Accidentally clicked on a stuff link and saw the following demand:

You pay for Netflix, you pay for music, you should pay for this.

Umm no. Those are professional services that aren’t riddled with spelling mistakes or woke ideology.

Show me a news site that offers neutral reporting and is aimed at those with above average iq (haven’t looked at newshub since the coalition cauliflower) and I will happily pay for it.

If only there was one…
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December 27, 2023 8:17am
- 7kiwi11
  
  Actually there’s plenty of woke ideology on Netflix.
  
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  December 27, 2023 9:38am
- ecco
  
  You did pay for $$tuffed via the PIJF.
  
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  December 27, 2023 9:46am
- Hollyfield
  
  I think that’s a really horrible demand with an accusatory tone. Netflix set up a service with a monthly fee. Stuff set up a website with free access. It is not the customer’s fault that Stuff made that decision, and if they now want to make a different decision they are free to do so.
  
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  December 27, 2023 1:28pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    It is a winging, entitled demand that inter alia demonstrates why the ghastly rag is unworthy of my money or my attention.
    
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    December 27, 2023 5:26pm
  - Opie
    
    They should go subscription only and see how business is…
    
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    December 27, 2023 7:41pm
- Ghost
  
  That’s alright, I came across in the political section a begging post that claims they are free of political influence. Shit, they couldn’t lie straight in bed
  
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  December 27, 2023 1:45pm
- David Garrett
  
  Opie: Well said…Stuff seems to get more banal every day…(I mainly go there for the quiz…haven’t got 15/15 in quite a while)
  
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  December 27, 2023 6:13pm
- John Loveridge
  
  Stuff’s demands for money are typically rude or patronising.
  
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  December 27, 2023 6:25pm
peterwn

See:
“The right to protest is under threat in Britain, undermining a pillar of democracy”
But what about the rights of ordinary people to go about their day to day lives without being obstructed and impeded by protesters?
And the rights to someone to a fair trial free from a protester trying to influence jurors by holding a placard outside a courthouse.

There are two sides to the ‘rights’ coin, but the foreign journalist writes a one sided article and Stuff regurgitates it without any balancing comment.
NZ has the same potential problem where a small noisy minority wants to dictate how everyone else should live in the name of ‘democracy’ and ‘rights’.

“https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/301032585/the-right-to-protest-is-under-threat-in-britain-undermining-a-pillar-of-democracy”
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December 27, 2023 8:25am
- david in Aus
  
  The right to protest is a marker of a free society. It does not mean that you impede other peoples’ freedom by blocking roads or monopolising space.
  
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  December 27, 2023 9:34am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Yes I read that article. What is under threat in the UK is free speech. There are no restrictions on the right to protest.
  
  The person who was jailed for three years (a New Zealander as it happens) was not convicted of protesting. He was convicted because he and his mates closed the M25, the orbital motorway around London, for 40 hours.
  
  And no you can’t camp outside a court holding a placard aimed at influencing jurors. 🙄
  
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  December 27, 2023 9:47am
- Tom Hunter
  
  Did they have anything to say about the abortion protestor who was arrested in Britain a while ago – for silently praying in her head?
  
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  December 27, 2023 9:48am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    In NZ that could easily be an offence. You can’t demonstrate within a certain distance of an abortion clinic. Normally that would involve placards and signs. But I imagine the restriction applies to anyone who is obviously protesting, even as a silent protest.
    While that is clearly a restriction on free expression, how many seriously argue that it has tipped NZ into being only a limited democracy?
    
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    December 27, 2023 10:58am
    - lifesgood
      
      Bloody disgusting. So someone who thinks killing babies is a bad thing, even if it is only in their head can be arrested? How bizarre.
      
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      December 27, 2023 11:19am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        The protest would have to be obvious before someone could be arrested The reason for the law is to ensure that women getting an abortion are not subject to protest at a time that will be sensitive to them.
        I think most National MP’s voted for this law change. Not sure what Chris Luxon’s vote was.
        
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        December 27, 2023 11:58am
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        We wouldn’t want someone going to murder their unborn child to have to think too deeply about that or feel their guilty conscience.
        
        13,000 murders a year shows how godless and uncivilised we have become. Yet there are some that would suggest this highlights our sophistication and civilisation.
        
        It’s one thing saying people should be free to make this choice, but entirely another that they should be protected from an opposing viewpoint.
        
        How many other rights should be removed because people are sensitive?
        
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        December 27, 2023 12:53pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        In March Isabel Vaughan-Spruce was arrested outside a British Pregnancy Advisory Services clinic in Birmingham.
        
        Her crime?
        
        She was standing silently, praying.
        
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        December 27, 2023 5:30pm
      - Ghost
        
        Did she do it again? Because she was arrested last December then acquitted February this year
        
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        December 27, 2023 5:34pm
Bridgenag

How the climatoids spent the summer lecturing us on the permanent drought that climate change has brought to Central Europe, and how they have earned nothing but rain for their hubris
June headlines: “Germany is facing permanent drought.” August headlines after a rainy summer: “Rain is no help against drought.” December headlines after still more rain: “There is no more drought.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/eugyppius/p/how-the-climatoids-spent-the-summer?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

Sound familiar?
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December 27, 2023 8:33am
- Matt Long
  
  Rain does nothing for a drought? That’s novel thinking, I guess rain does make droughts difficult.
  
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  December 27, 2023 11:02am
  - mawm
    
    I wish NIWA would stop their predictions!
    For Oct – December 2023 –
    – “El Niño has officially arrived.” and
    – “Rainfall is most likely to be below normal in the north and east of the North Island and above normal in the west of the South Island. Rainfall is about equally likely to be near normal or below normal in all other regions.”
    My verdant garden and knee high lawns are testimony to how incorrect they were.
    
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    December 27, 2023 1:45pm
    - hullkiwi
      
      I’ll second that. The vege boxes are now doing fine after a cold Nov/Dec, and the grass is a lush green and needing to be cut every few days thanks to the wet & humid conditions.
      
      In Britain, the kiss of death to a summer was always talk of a “BBQ summer” or the threat of a hose pipe ban.
      
      Solution to the rubbish forecasts from NIWA, send them all back to the US, Canada or Europe (i.e. where they all came from), because they know squat about NZ, & SW Pacific weather forecasts.
      
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      December 27, 2023 3:09pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Between 2001 and 2010 eastern Australia experienced severe drought.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000s_Australian_drought
  
  Climate activists were convinced that this drought would be permanent.
  
  https://www.advanceaustralia.org.au/_climate_scientists_humiliated_after_our_dams_spill_for_the_second_time_this_year#:~:text=In%202005%2C%20Flannery%20predicted%20that,be%20further%20from%20the%20truth.
  
  Ooops then it started to rain. While there were dry years in the second decade of the 21st century, there were also years of high rainfall. In 2022, Sydney experienced its highest annual rainfall on record.
  
  Fast forward to today, and Sydney’s water storage dams are 90 percent full.
  
  https://www.waternsw.com.au/nsw-dams/nsw-storage-levels/greater-sydney-dam-levels
  
  Lesson: Do not claim that droughts are “permanent”.
  
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  December 27, 2023 12:46pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    One Aussie had never seen rain before. He ran outside and into the wet and fainted.
    It took two buckets of dust to bring him round.
    
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    December 27, 2023 1:16pm
    - David Garrett
      
      Steve O: Very good Sir…and all the best for 2024 to you and yours
      
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      December 27, 2023 6:21pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Let’s hope 2024 will be good for you and family DG.
        
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        December 28, 2023 7:25am
  - NothingLeft
    
    It can happen. The sahara was green up until about 5000 years back. But a warmer world has generally more water in the air.
    
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    December 27, 2023 1:42pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Yep. Don’t you remember the ‘Dams will never be full again’ headlines?
    
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    December 27, 2023 3:28pm
    - CJames
      
      That is why they wasted billions on desalination plants which are only used at minimum production to stop them drying out. One of those embarrassing facts they don’t like to be reminded of.
      
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      December 27, 2023 4:05pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I disagree. The Sydney dams had fallen to 35 percent capacity. It was a crisis. The NSW Government had no way of knowing that the drought would suddenly end.
        
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        December 27, 2023 6:56pm
      - CJames
        
        BY
        The NSW government had other options. They could have built more dams, including up in the Hunter Valley. However, those options were never used because their scientists convinced them that Australia was in the grips of a permanent drought and rainwater catchments wouldn’t work.
        One of the facts which people don’t like being brought forward is the Brisbane floods some years back were caused by the permanent drought. Even though they knew a big hurricane was coming, they didn’t lower the water level beforehand, because they needed to save all the water. So a big dump occurred and the dam overtopped. I can’t remember how many died, but that was direct result of incompetence by the catchment management team and their political masters.
        
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        December 27, 2023 7:12pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        They followed the advice of the climate commission. The climate commission, surprise surprise, turned out to be F.O.S.
        
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        December 27, 2023 10:27pm
Bridgenag

My Response to an AGW Political Scientist
Climate Change proponents and real Science are often at odds

The bottom line is that Curt and other similar advocates, want us to fork over $100± Trillion dollars: a) to accept their AGW hypothesis when they have not bothered to follow traditional Science protocols, and b) to implement “solutions” (like industrial wind energy) that are scientifically unproven. What could possibly go wrong?

PS — A profoundly important problem that is going on here, is that real Science itself is under attack by anti-American progressives.

https://open.substack.com/pub/criticallythinking/p/my-response-to-an-agw-political-scientist?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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December 27, 2023 8:38am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

The usual agitators are behind this.
You may be able to buy a smaller memorial to help fight the cancel culture.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/historian-bruce-moon-responds-to-wanganui-memorial-removal/
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December 27, 2023 8:49am
- Benedict Yu
  
  This is currently happening on a massive scale in the USA with the removal of any memorials to Confederacy soldiers killed in the Civil War.
  
  https://www.npr.org/2023/12/20/1220573980/confederate-memorial-arlington-cemetery-removal
  
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  December 27, 2023 8:59am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Are VCs being canceled yet? Even though they were awarded regardless of the ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ of the war, but for exceptional valour.
    
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    December 27, 2023 9:14am
  - I remember when
    
    Next step is the quiet removal of ‘unacceptable’ details from the history books.
    
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    December 27, 2023 9:46am
    - kevn
      
      I rem… That was already happening right here in NZ. Some inconvenient history cleansed from school books/curriculum.
      Not sure of the current status. There needed to be a reversal.
      
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      December 27, 2023 10:14am
      - Bridgenag
        
        Don’t forget the 700,00 books disappearing from the Wokeweelington library
        
        10 1
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        December 27, 2023 1:25pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Kevn: I understand there is no reference at all in the new high school science curriculum to the musket wars in which 40,000 of the then population of Maori were killed…but there is of course heaps about the Land Wars in which about 2400 Maori died…the musket wars were the REAL Maori holocaust, not the Land Wars..
        
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        December 27, 2023 6:27pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        history curriculum
        
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        December 27, 2023 6:58pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Won’t be long before the Veterans get pissed off.
    Imagine what bulky Marines could do with these weedy types.
    
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    December 27, 2023 1:19pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      This is what I was meaning:
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3pmQonrS9Y
      
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      December 27, 2023 1:34pm
  - mawm
    
    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. ” – George Orwell 1984.
    
    It’s almost as if the left are using it as a playbook.
    
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    December 27, 2023 1:50pm
- Tomtoddy
  
  Rewriting our history doesn’t change it.
  
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  December 27, 2023 9:32am
  - Dudley Quaffquaff
    
    Of course not, but it does make it more difficult to learn from. This is why I think actions like this may well backfire. Once there is no longer any visible evidence of historic ill-treatment of Maori, or American blacks, then it becomes more difficult to argue that any present misfortunes are the fault of history.
    
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    December 27, 2023 9:44am
    - newview
      
      Basically with the US it’s at war with itself. A Republican President might well reinstate the confederate statues. Yes if NZ Colonial Statues were left alone or had added plaques explaining the reason Maori don’t admire them, it would be far more educational than getting rid of them.
      
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      December 27, 2023 10:33am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        It is ironic that the Republican Party was formed in the 1850s by a bunch of old white men who wanted to end slavery.
        
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        December 27, 2023 10:44am
      - newview
        
        BY Didn’t know that about the foundation of the Republican Party. Strange indeed.
        
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        December 27, 2023 11:14am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Good old Abraham Lincoln, the first Republican President. The Republicans passed the:
        
        – 13th Amendment, abolishing slavery.
        
        – the 14th Amendment, giving Black men citizenship.
        
        – the 15th Amendment, giving Black men the right to vote.
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amendments_to_the_Constitution_of_the_United_States
        
        Abraham Lincoln paid a heavy price, assassinated only five weeks after his second term inauguration.
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln
        
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        December 27, 2023 12:30pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      then it becomes more difficult to argue that any present misfortunes are the fault of history..
      
      Indeed
      
      If the Crown is to accept that Maori didn't cede sovereignity, then there is no need for the Crown to continue with the TofW. and the Waitangi Tribunal.. for clearly the Crown's understanding of the Treaty for the last 180 years is invalidated.
      
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      December 27, 2023 10:52am
      - alloytoo
        
        If Maori didn’t ceded sovereignty in exchange for British citizenship then they are a conquered collection of tribes
        
        14 1
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        December 27, 2023 12:54pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

GRETA: “Coal in my stocking? Seriously?”
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December 27, 2023 9:42am
I remember when

The Case of the Never-Ending Illness: NY Times.
“Covid now adds to the infectious diseases already spreading every virus season, said Dr Nahid Bhadelia, founding director of Boston University’s Center for Emerging Infectious Diseases Policy and Research.
In addition to the flu and RSV, there are more than 200 viruses that cause cold-like symptoms, including enteroviruses, rhinoviruses, parainfluenza viruses and common cold coronaviruses that are cousins of the virus that casuses covid.”

Why panic and poorly planned lockdowns must be avoided.
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December 27, 2023 9:44am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  What happened to the so called new virus in China? It was apparently spreading the world at great haste, funny the plebs go on holiday and the virus has disappeared.
  
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  December 27, 2023 10:41am
  - mawm
    
    G – The MSM reporters also went on holiday.
    
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    December 27, 2023 1:55pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    It was a known pneumonia associated with Vit-D deficiency in children (winter in Northern China is super cold).
    
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    December 27, 2023 4:23pm
kevn

NZ Horrid main headline today… awesome.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/drug-testing-urged-amid-warnings-of-bad-lsd-and-mdma-by-know-your-stuff/3ABRCJROPVCINIMFMCPWFGOXZM/
14 1
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December 27, 2023 9:46am
- Burtland
  
  LSD, MDMA, NBOMe, dope, vaping – good
  tobacco – bad
  
  how did we get there?
  
  27 3
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  December 27, 2023 10:05am
  - General
    
    You’re ignorant
    
    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/06/25/what-is-the-most-dangerous-drug
    
    NBOMe is terrible but legitimate LSD and MDMA are brilliant recreational drugs far superior to alcohol
    
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    December 27, 2023 3:56pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      LSD is an extremely powerful mind altering drug.
      
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      December 27, 2023 10:41pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Lifeguards. 13 rescues and 10 assists on Christmas day. I don’t know why people don’t swim between the flags. It is the ocean, not a swimming pool. Some would not know a rip if it smacked them in the forehead.
I think that at a patrolled beach, those rescued outside the flags should be fined.
ATM I am not swimming (shoulder injury) I am not dumb enough to take a risk.
Not boating either.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/frustration-after-swimmer-who-ignored-lifeguards-advice-rescued-at-piha/ar-AA1m1FLf?
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December 27, 2023 10:14am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Might give this a go, all in the name of Science of course.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/cheers-to-that-beer-may-improve-mental-and-physical-wellbeing-study-finds/ar-AA1aopyZ?
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December 27, 2023 10:17am
- mawm
  
  I’m living proof that it does!!!
  
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  December 27, 2023 1:57pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump run for POTUS from prison?
He may even pardon himself.

Not going to happen, but the Dems are getting nervous.

https://thepoliticalinsider.com/could-trump-run-for-president-from-prison/?
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December 27, 2023 10:55am
- newview
  
  Nothing that comes out of the USA will surprise me now. The place is a complete cot case. Trump running the place from prison like the gangster would fit perfectly.
  
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  December 27, 2023 11:18am
  - thirteenstars
    
    And if Trump is actually the victim of a political witch hunt?
    
    I’d say “running the place from prison” is justice which makes a mockery of every dirty tactic employed to put him there, and a pretty good endorsement of the mechanisms put in place 240 years ago by much more honorable men than the politician and goons currently involved in trying to subvert the Constitution.
    
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    December 27, 2023 12:02pm
    - newview
      
      I could be wrong TS but your non de plume is the number of stars on the confederate battle flag. To me it explains where your support lies. I’m not being judgmental here you are entitled to your opinion and so am I. I would say though that IF there is a political witch hunt to get rid of Trump it would be no different to how he would treat his enemies given the chance.
      
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      December 27, 2023 1:10pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        13 stars is also the number on the Betsy Ross Flag representing the 13 original States.
        
        12 1
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        December 27, 2023 1:39pm
      - newview
        
        I think there were 11 original states. I believe Kentucky and Missouri were added later.
        
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        December 27, 2023 2:38pm
      - thirteenstars
        
        History doesn’t appear to be your strong point, especially US history which would explain a great deal.
        
        As Steve correctly points out the Betsy Ross flag used during the Revolutionary War has thirteen stars, one for each original colony, each of which would become the original thirteens states that signed the Articles of Confederation and the US Constitution.
        
        That the Confederate flag also has thirteen stars is purely an accident of history, though I do support secession but not for the reasons used by the South.
        
        As Jefferson wrote in the Declaration of Independence:
        
        Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
        
        Clear?
        
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        December 27, 2023 3:09pm
      - NoFax
        
        Trump was president for 4 years -witch hunt? I don’t remember that happening. The reason for Trump so far ahead in the polls is the Dems have used the scare tactics and it does not make sense. And it looks like it is the Dems that are destroying democracy all in the name of saving democracy.
        
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        December 27, 2023 3:56pm
      - newview
        
        Yes Clear TS. Incorrect assumption on my part except I new the thirteen stars were apart of US history so new you probably had strong opinions about it. I was also serious when saying I wasn’t being judgmental. I’m not worried one way or another about you opinion of US politics. My original comment was my opinion which you chose to respond to. I’m hoping that Steve’s trolling comment further down the line wasn’t about me.
        
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        December 27, 2023 4:22pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Newview @ 2.38,
        The new Mike is you right? So similar.
        But when Mike gets his beans he disappears.
        OK, Guessing game: RichardX?
        
        [Mod – stop calling people trolls, and everything else you do]
        
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        December 27, 2023 4:49pm
      - newview
        
        I’m a bit slow Steve so haven’t grasped RichardX.
        I’ve accepted my thirteen stars comment was a bit personal and would rather just get my beans for that than be called a Troll. I certainly haven’t been following TS around to pick at his comments. In fact he was more interested in mine.
        
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        December 27, 2023 5:20pm
- MCōs
  
  He could run a spirited campaign from the cemetery and plenty of fools would send money to the old corpse
  
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  December 27, 2023 3:17pm
Ghost

What is it about chess champions using their ahole to cheat

Chinese chess champion Yan Chenglong has been stripped of his title due to allegations of inappropriate behaviour, which come after accusations he used anal beads to cheat.

Article
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December 27, 2023 11:26am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “But the association says it’s impossible to prove those allegations, which claim Yan clenched and unclenched rhythmically to communicate information about the chess board via code to a computer, which then sent back instructions on what moves to make in the form of vibration.”
  
  I guess he gets points for ingenuity 🙁
  
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  December 27, 2023 12:35pm
- NothingLeft
  
  A 1990’s pentium 3 chip running stockfish could beat Magnus Carlson. In modern terms a device about the size of a marble could provide that performance for an hour or two.
  
  They are going to have to x-ray tournament grandmasters in a few years.
  
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  December 27, 2023 2:54pm
- greybeard
  
  A pawn star.
  What do you expect ?
  
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  December 27, 2023 4:09pm
Swifty

I note, with a certain irony, the relationship that exists between the claimed wonderfulness, attractiveness, value and goodness of cultural events and their inability to stand on their own two feet and pay their own way.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/te-matatini-welcomes-new-governments-ongoing-financial-commitment-to-kapa-haka/4Q3WRABBIJFODPDUOESFUTUG4Y/

It is now readily apparent that the more wonderful these cultural events are, and how much their operators claim society benefits from their existence the less likely people are prepared to pay to attend them.

Doesn’t matter if it’s Kapa Haka, opera, ballet, urban rap or ‘seeing ourselves’ on film, the relationship is the same – the more indispensable they are claimed to be the more likely they will need taxpayer money to be viable.

Who would have thought?
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December 27, 2023 12:02pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  I recommend this Yes Minister clip.
  
  “Well If Art Gets Funding, Why Shouldn’t Football? | Yes Minister”
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl0aEz34A4o&ab_channel=BBCComedyGreats
  
  As a regular beneficiary of New Zealand Symphony Orchestra funding, I will refrain from commenting further 🙂
  
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  December 27, 2023 12:33pm
I remember when

EV Start-UP Founders Made Big Claims. One was just sentenced to Prison: NY Times.
“Mr Milton told investors that Nikola had working prototypes of emissions-free long-haul trucks, had billions of dollars’ worth of binding orders and was producing low-cost hydrogen fuel.
All those statements were false.
The founder of the electric truck company was sentenced to four years in prison.
Justice Ramos also fined Mr Milton $1 million and said he would be required to pay restitution.
Judge Ramos said, “The loss amount was immense.”
Mr Milton also lied about his personal history, saying he had dropped out of college to pursue his entrepreneurial dreams.
He was expelled for paying someone to do his academic work!
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December 27, 2023 12:32pm
- JohnRidd
  
  I am waiting for some of the electric airplane companies to be in the news for similar things.
  
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  December 27, 2023 3:49pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Short range (200km) electric EVTOL and ferry-replacement aviation is being demonstrated in many companies. It works, and is nearing certification and entry into service (in service in the case of ferry replacements). It’ll be initially expensive (taxi like pricing), but it’s clearly not snake oil.
    
    There are a huge number of short range flights they can efficiently do – and once autonomous (sky is much less complex than roads) they will long term undercut cars on price – using less energy for same distance at 5x speed. The transition will take 10-20 years, with battery tech likely to improve in time. But impact of production learning curves and operational experience on cost makes this a pretty sure thing.
    
    I expect longer range will be serviced by hybrid EVTOL using batteries for VTOL and some sort of engine for long distance flight – will take over from regional jets by operating point to point without inefficiencies and time wasting of airports.
    
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    December 27, 2023 4:21pm
    - JohnRidd
      
      The problem, NothingLeft, is the energy density of batteries. They are already close to the theoretical maximum. Unless our understanding of the laws of physics and chemistry are found to be very wrong, batteries that have enough energy will be too heavy power airplanes carrying more than a few people. A lot of these startups are relying on massive increases in battery capacity.
      
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      December 27, 2023 5:54pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Sadly, few activists understand energy. A Boeing 787 flying from Auckland to New York uses 120,000 litres of Jet-A1. Good luck replacing that with batteries.
        
        10 0
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        December 27, 2023 7:08pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        Leading battery pack energy densities in cars are hovering around the 250Wh/kg level, 330Wh/kg for the cells. There are many R&D companies that have demonstrated >500Wh/kg cells, and possibilities of up into the 1000’s with lithium air, but to date limited cycle life of 10’s to low hundreds of cycles. Electric planes really need 1000’s of cycles from their batteries.
        
        This paper had 685Wh/kg over 1000 cycles, but apparently with some issues. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abq1347
        
        Eventually someone will make a major breakthrough. EV market growth means there is such enormous payoff to whoever does it that there is crazy money being thrown at it. Might be this year , might be in a decade.
        
        That will make it possible to achieve 1-2000km range (majority of air travel is less than this) with small glider like aircraft carrying 1-10 passengers for $10 dollars in electricity per passenger.
        
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        December 27, 2023 9:22pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        NothingLeft for a long time Bjorn Lomborg has advocated MUCH greater investment in R&D for energy breakthroughs. That as an alternative to wasting huge amounts of money on crap (EG wind and solar and required backup systems) that just can’t do the job (of powering modern civilisation) affordably. He claims human Co2 is a “problem” (not sure why he says that) but definitely not an emergency worth being panicked into trying to do the impossible with suicidally expensive (all things considered) rubbish like wind and solar.
        
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        December 27, 2023 11:03pm
    - Dougal10
      
      I expect you will be wrong on most of these statements.
      
      1 0
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      December 27, 2023 7:35pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        I’m confident 🙂 it’s an area of professional expertise. The necessary technologies exist, they just need to be put together and certified (costing billions). But once one player has demonstrated it there will be a huge rush in development, rapid market expansion and cost reduction.
        
        Domestic air travel will be 1-6 passenger vTOL planes travelling helipad to helipad in 20 years.
        
        0 0
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        December 27, 2023 9:29pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        NothingLeft will it be like on The Jetsons?
        
        0 0
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        December 27, 2023 11:05pm
      - Ghost
        
        By the time the agenda is full swing, more like the flintstones……
        
        3 0
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        December 27, 2023 11:15pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Some fun from The United Spot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tbfO3FLw1A
3 3
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December 27, 2023 1:06pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Seems to be a new troll in class.
Mike again?
8 2
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December 27, 2023 1:45pm
Swifty

Efeso Collins’ first contribution in the house:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2hpGCZ9Iev8

“They’re robbing the hope from our young!”
4 0
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December 27, 2023 2:45pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Thanks. I will pass.
  
  7 0
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  December 27, 2023 7:09pm
Ghost

Hmmmmm, if you can’t pooh in Lower Hutt can you flush a penis?

Brazilian woman, 34, cuts off husband’s penis and flushes it down the toilet ‘after the 39-year-old bedded her 15-year-old niece’

Lucky that’s all she did, creep
5 0
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December 27, 2023 3:41pm
- Inandout
  
  Ghost, at least the chap with the missing piece didn’t marry a 9 year old like they do in Arab countries.
  
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  December 27, 2023 4:03pm
  - alwyn.a
    
    A 9 year old?
    That sounds quite old compared to some of the English Monarchs.
    David II was 4 years and 134 days old when he married.
    The youngest female Monarch was Mary II who was 15 years and 188 days when she married.
    The youngest Queen Consort was Isabella of Valois who was 6 years and 358 days old when she married Richard II.
    Quite a long time ago but still.
    
    3 1
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    December 27, 2023 5:55pm
Pope Punctilious II

Nigel Latte complains “there’s no middle ground in politics … you’re either woke, or you’re Jordan Peterson”. Before going on to misrepresent Peterson, and establish clearly which side of the middle ground he’s on. I’m not sure why anyone would ask NL for comment on current trends in NZ society, as he has nothing original or profound to say.
19 1
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December 27, 2023 4:06pm
MCōs

If it’s not broken don’t fix it
https://x.com/ronfilipkowski/status/1739817296560894030?s=61&t=yFkzCNMWRCaVt1p5eRxUog
3 2
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December 27, 2023 4:09pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Good troll MCos.
  The left won’t cheat? Pig’s arse. They are now so desperate they ‘could’ assassinate Trump.
  Cheating is part of how the left go with the flow – it is normal.
  Heard any lies from the last Ardern controlled Labour Government lately?
  Let us all know when you do discover those lies MCos, ok?
  
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  December 27, 2023 4:59pm
Swifty

Another nice little round up from Bryce Edwards, including his view that Mihi Forbes’ TVNZ recent piece of The Voice and the proposed Treaty principles referendum was not balanced, made questionable assumptions and was in fact advocacy journalism – not the role of a state broadcaster.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/bryce-edwards-the-influencers-and-ideas-getting-new-zealand-politics-back-on-track/VKRYWCJ6HFCZ7PSTIBZ6L734SY/

He’s quite right of course.
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December 27, 2023 5:09pm
- rouppe
  
  This argues that nefarious right-wing forces are at work in New Zealand to set back the political struggle for indigenous rights.
  
  Maori right should always be the same as every other New Zealanders rights. That’s what the chiefs signed up to.
  
  It’s also true that the contemporary political left isn’t very good at … having intellectual debates.
  
  No shit…
  
  Boyd Swinburn, a health professor at the University of Auckland has written a letter to the Herald editor, challenging “Hooton to dedicate his next article to explaining why Scandinavian countries are always on top of the world rankings of social and economic indicators
  
  Because they have drilled for oil for decades. Why does the Left always talk about the personal tax structure in Scandinavian countries, but never mentions the drilling for oil?
  
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  December 27, 2023 7:20pm
  - marcw
    
    Also, in 2022 29% of Sweden’s power came from nuclear; 3 nuclear plants with 6 reactors total.
    
    6 0
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    December 27, 2023 8:25pm
  - Swifty
    
    Swinburn needs to catch up.
    
    Sweden is the second most dangerous country in Europe.
    
    Was among the safest 30+ years ago.
    
    I wonder what’s changed?
    
    7 0
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    December 27, 2023 8:53pm
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Norway has lots of oil. But do Sweden and Denmark have any?
    
    1 0
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    December 27, 2023 10:21pm
Ra Henare

When Trump stood for president (The first time) I predicted he would win.
This wasv vocalised before a bunch of Americans who laughed out loud and told me I was dreaming.

I wont bore you with my reasoning which was non partisan. I supported Trumps POLICIES (not personality) most of the time.

Now I predict that neither TRUMP or BIDEN will be the next President of the USA.
Both have exceeded their use by date in the mental arena.

Trumps vindictiveness, espoused in his Christmas Social media rants, will be his undoing.

You cant piss of over 50% of the electorate and expect to win. Ref: The last Labour Government.

But then again, (a Machiavellian thought) maybe he doesnt want to win??? and cant bring himself to say he will step down as a candidate.
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December 27, 2023 5:26pm
- mawm
  
  Ra – “You cant piss of over 50% of the electorate and expect to win.”
  
  Without any Democrat cheating he would easily harvest more than 50% of the votes.
  
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  December 27, 2023 5:56pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Trump’s personality and lack of focus are indeed big black marks against him, though his policies were generally decent. Clear that there needs to be a major reduction in control over america that unelected rent-seeking and in many respects destructive elites hold.
  
  I see little chance that Trump is elected. Biden’s replacement will probably carry less baggage, Trump has high negatives with many swing voters and I thin high probability that he is taken out of race through lawfare or other means.
  
  De Santis would be better. Not sure about Haley.
  
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  December 27, 2023 6:17pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The number of Trump supporters is the winner for Trump.
    The rallies are huge. Patriots will never give up on Trump.
    Personally I have a lot of Trump memorabilia. Hats, tees, coins, gold finished US$100 bills, bumper stickers. All free, just pay shipping.
    The man knows how to sell himself. 2024 is 2016 all over again. Trump won in 2020 as well but somehow Biden got 81 million votes! What a joke!
    This time the swamp will be drained. He hugely underestimated it in 2016. Now wonder the Dems are in full retard mode.
    
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    December 28, 2023 7:50am
- newview
  
  RH I would be happy to see your predictions come true regardless of political persuasion.
  
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  December 27, 2023 6:32pm
kevn

Ra… Robert Kennedy makes a lot of sense.
3 3
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December 27, 2023 5:45pm
- Ra Henare
  
  In my view he wont get close. He has an unfortunate media voice. I find him hard to understand.
  
  Modern elections are usually won by persons with good media voices.
  
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  December 27, 2023 7:09pm
JimBobJoe

Short piece on the danger of the next virus snafu in a lab…. as compared to the hype about AI being a threat…
https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2023/12/matt-ridley-virology-poses-far-greater.html#more
5 1
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December 27, 2023 6:11pm
sungsamning

https://canadafreepress.com/article/good-riddance-to-louisianas-leftwing-governor
Good riddance to Louisianas Leftist Governor.
In 2015, Edwards defeated a damaged Republican candidate, embroiled in a prostitution scandal. He campaigned as a conservative Democrat, with a military background and pro-second amendment and pro-life positions. Unfortunately, he has governed as a typical liberal, embracing big government solutions, eschewing needed budget and fiscal reform, and spewing typical progressive rhetoric about the dangers of climate change and COVID.
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December 28, 2023 11:44am
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V66Omm5svDE
India’s Assassination Program in North America || Peter Zeihan.
A US federal grand jury has voted to issue indictments against a handful of ethnic Indians (with alleged ties to the Indian government) who the US Department of Justices claims participated in an assassination program in North America. [6:28]
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December 28, 2023 11:44am

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