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December 25, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 25 December 2023

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General Debate

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Benedict Yu

This seems odd advice.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/133497503/wellington-water-woes-and-whats-recommended-for-emergency-supply

We have emergency water supplies to deal with natural disasters that cause water supply to our houses to be cut off. However this article says…

“Regional water services provider Wellington Water has a range of suggestions for how residents can limit the risk of restrictions, and how they should prepare in case more severe restrictions are imposed.”

In practice, the most severe restriction possible is to ban all outdoor water use and to encourage water conservation in-house, mainly by short showers. In that scenario, having 200 litres of water in storage is not going to be helpful.

They are losing nearly half of all water through leaks. ☹️ Providing an adequate, safe water supply is arguably the most important responsibility of the Council. Water restrictions in a drought are one thing. People understand, and do their bit. Water restrictions because the Council let the infrastructure collapse is something else.
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December 25, 2023 8:00am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  On the upside, the under side of my car is regularly washed.
  
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  December 25, 2023 8:01am
- pdm
  
  Time for a Commissioner to take over the Wellington Council.
  
  I nominate Kerry Prendergast the last competent Mayor the city had.
  
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  December 25, 2023 8:17am
  - mandk
    
    I agree about Kerry.
    
    The last four (or is it 5?) Mayors have been completely useless.
    
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    December 25, 2023 8:41am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      The Govt needs to instruct Govt Depts to hire strictly on merit, without reference to intersectionalism.
      
      Only then will the largest employer in town stop being a lodestone for the weird & wonderful from all over the country. Over time, that will see a decline in the number of rusted-on Lefties knocking around the place.
      
      Alternatively, National could set up or sponsor a less Leftie party for local elections, thereby encouraging net taxpayer-voters to coalesce around a single mayoral candidate & group of like minded councillors.
      
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      December 25, 2023 9:16am
- AC
  
  Yeah but they are getting a reconditioned town hall and cycle lanes so what’s the problem?
  
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  December 25, 2023 8:18am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    No cyclelane to the refurbished town hall yet, but don’t you worry, it’s bound to be on the agenda.
    
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    December 25, 2023 9:03am
- Chris Nisbet
  
  It seems that Auckland also has water issues.
  Despite the reservoirs being practically full to the brim, we apparently have to conserve water.
  If Auckland doesn’t have enough reserves to carry us across a summer that has been anything but dry so far, it would seem to me that we need more places to store the water that falls. Imagine if we had been storing all the water that fell over the last 12 months rather than letting it flow out to the sea.
  
  It’s just a guess on my part, but I presume that what’s going on is that population growth in Auckland is outpacing the growth in water storage.
  I suspect that more than enough water falls from the sky to service our needs, but we don’t store enough of it.
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/12/dry-summer-could-see-water-use-warnings-through-to-autumn.html
  
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  December 25, 2023 8:21am
  - Michael Sommerville
    
    Two problems here. First it is a Newshub article therefore not much credibility and second the word “could” is used. Someone is trying to predict the future. That won’t happen accurately.
    
    So the article is not worth reading. Does anyone believe we are having a long dry summer?
    
    Therefore I reject the premise of the article.
    
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    December 25, 2023 9:23am
    - Local Miller
      
      Sorry, fat fingers hit report.
      
      This is more than a Newshub article. In my last circular from the Auckland Council they were sending out the same warning. Like CN I had to shake my head since we’ve had a VERY wet winter and here we are, 25th Dec, past the summer solstice, and were having heavy rain today with lightning.
      
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      December 25, 2023 10:01am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Just bring water from the Waikato. ~1% of it’s flow would satisfy Auckland. There are no physical, economic or environmental problems with doing this. The only issue is political tolerance for brownmail.
    
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    December 25, 2023 10:15am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      There are significant iwi problems though
      
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      December 25, 2023 12:47pm
      - Matt Long
        
        Brownmail is not referring to brown coloured envelopes, but a play on the word Blackmail.
        It means Iwi issues.
        
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        December 25, 2023 1:19pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        Both definitions apply.
        
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        December 25, 2023 7:40pm
    - cmm
      
      There isn’t a water problem. There’s a taiwha problem.
      Feeding animals turns them into pests.
      Need some PLEASE DON’T FEED THE TANIWHA signs.
      
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      December 25, 2023 1:15pm
- Im Right
  
  Water meters!
  Everyone is responsible for the water they use, if they have a leak on their property they get it fixed or their bill gets bigger each quarter.
  Works in Kapiti, you self monitor your water usage as you are paying for it via a water rates bill every 3 months.
  My bill was unusually large, found a leak outside and got plumber to fix, then sent in paid bill to council and I got a rebate on the bill cost, as a credit against my water rates invoice…..sorted!
  
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  December 25, 2023 8:22am
  - CJames
    
    Water meters do reduce water use, but the cost of installation and meter reading often negate the saving in building new water infrastructure. However, in Wellington’s case, they would be useless. Just another cost for ratepayers. If they actually fixed all their leaks and had a sensible replacement programme, they wouldn’t have any risk of water shortage, especially as they are depopulating.
    
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    December 25, 2023 8:58am
    - artemisia
      
      I’m in Wellington City. I have a voluntary water meter. Costs me less than the water proportion of the rates bill. (High rates, small household.) Larger households generally pay more obviously.
      
      Social housing – don’t think tenants pay the water rates. Taxpayers pay instead, so no incentive for tenants to conserve water. Sounds like a good reason to adjust social housing rent upwards.
      
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      December 25, 2023 10:03am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    That doesn’t help with water leaks off properties. Christchurch has charges for high water users. Still 30 percent of all water is being lost through leaks.
    
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    December 25, 2023 9:00am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    How was it that you didn’t notice a leak on your property? Moist patches on the garden along the line of the pipe leading into your home are usually a clue.
    
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    December 25, 2023 9:05am
    - Im Right
      
      @ NMTB….My water pipe is 1.5mts underground at side of house running to the water meter, split in pipe facing down not up so no ‘puddling’ on driveway for a cpl/few months, if you don’t notice a leak, you don’t know one exists till next water bill comes in!
      
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      December 25, 2023 11:07am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Bill each quarter? Lucky you. Up here is is costing me average $120 per month.
    Had a meter since the house was built – 1979.
    
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    December 25, 2023 9:38am
    - Local Miller
      
      What, $120/month. I pay between $50 and $70 per month, never more.
      
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      December 25, 2023 10:02am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Four in this house. Washing machine is going right now, 3rd wash today.
        
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        December 25, 2023 12:31pm
      - cmm
        
        Washing machines don’t use that much water.
        
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        December 25, 2023 1:18pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @cmm,
        Well the water is going somewhere. We have a spa bath.
        There are no water leaks, I have tested many times.
        
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        December 25, 2023 2:28pm
    - Im Right
      
      Yes, every 3mths, last bill was last week… 20th of this month.
      My water usage was $42, but $58 standard charge for Greater Wellington Council, so I’m paying WCC more than I’m actually being charged for the water I use.
      
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      December 25, 2023 11:09am
    - Ra Henare
      
      Guess my $7.94 a month(flat rate) for one bloke in his lovely man cave(1 bedroom apartment) is OK then :-)|
      
      Long hot showers twice a day, laundry once a week.
      
      No I am not complaining at all.
      
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      December 25, 2023 1:46pm
  - KiwiSapper
    
    “…….Everyone is responsible for the water they use, if they have a leak on their property they get it fixed or their bill gets bigger each quarter…’
    .
    Not so here in rural Wanganui. We get charged one payment annually, in advance and required to pay for for a set amount of water. The meter is read only once a year and it doesn’t matter if I use less than the amount I have been charged and paid for,……… no credit.
    Accordingly, I run hoses endlessly and even then, only once in 7 years have I used the amount of water I have been charged and paid for. Needless to say, water saving is not a matter I trouble myself with.
    
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    December 25, 2023 10:18pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Michael Daly must be a leftie. Needs to brush up on his Math.
  “Based on the 140l per person advice, a dwelling with four people in it would need three of the tanks – 4×140=540.”
  How about 560l?
  But really, Wellington need to get stuck in and fix this. Putting road cones around a burst pipe and going back to the depot to write a report is hopeless. Get in there and fix it!
  
  I see the same thing happening with electricity in the future because no new generators are being built to supply the demand of EVs. Solar and wind are shit. Get nuclear in yesterday! We just have to go that way.
  
  It seems that NZ infrastructure is coming to a grinding halt – can’t even get any designs done. Commies!
  
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  December 25, 2023 8:24am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Nuclear is the answer long term. However, we should wait till Australia get SMRs in 5 to 10 years.
    
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    December 25, 2023 8:38am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I don’t see any government repealing the nuclear free legislation in the foreseeable future. I don’t understand its rationale but it seems to be worshipped by a majority of people.
      
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      December 25, 2023 8:46am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        Peter Dutton is in favour of nuclear power.
        
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        December 25, 2023 9:09am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        No doubt but Australia doesn’t have a nuclear free law.
        
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        December 25, 2023 9:16am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        With change of government the law will be changed. The majority of the population also supports nuclear.
        
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        December 25, 2023 9:18am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “With change of government the law will be changed.”
        
        You mean the current government? No chance.
        
        How do you know that a majority of people would support the repeal of the nuclear free legislation. Only way to know that is a poll.
        
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        December 25, 2023 9:33am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        “How do you know that a majority of people would support the repeal of the nuclear free legislation. Only way to know that is a poll.”
        
        I heard on Sky News Aust.
        
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        December 25, 2023 9:40am
      - Jack5
        
        If New Zealand found it had Australian-scale deposits of uranium ore, we would surely change our attitude towards nuclear power.
        
        For a graph of uranium’s price boom:
        
        https://markets.businessinsider.com/commodities/uranium-price?op=1
        
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        December 25, 2023 9:42am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “If New Zealand found it had Australian-scale deposits of uranium ore, we would surely change our attitude towards nuclear power.”
        
        That is debatable. If we discovered a giant gas field in New Zealand waters, best case scenario is that 40 percent of the population would lose their minds if it were commercially developed. In the case of uranium that number would be higher.
        
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        December 25, 2023 11:30am
      - Ra Henare
        
        Bene, it was an emotional response during the Lange years and after Mururoa tests.
        
        Aimed at US nuclear armed warships visiting and making NZ a potential target.
        
        But like many things. NZ has not moved on.
        
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        December 25, 2023 1:49pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “Aimed at US nuclear armed warships visiting and making NZ a potential target.”
        
        So why didn’t New Zealand just ban nuclear weapons?
        
        As an aside. Where does New Zealand source the Cesium required for radiation treatment for cancer?
        
        https://www.epa.gov/radiation/radionuclide-basics-cesium-137#:~:text=Cesium%2D137%20is%20produced%20by,reactors%20and%20nuclear%20weapons%20testing.
        
        All of Australia’s needs are produced by Australia’s only nuclear reactor at Lucas Heights, about 60 km from Sydney.
        
        https://www.ansto.gov.au/products/nuclear-medicine/radiopharmaceuticals
        
        If New Zealand wants to be “nuclear free” shouldn’t it shut down the radiation treatment for cancer patients? Or is that “good” radiation that we can import from Australia?
        
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        December 25, 2023 5:16pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Why wait? Just do it. The longer we wait the more rationing there will be.
      
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      December 25, 2023 9:49am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        SMRs will not be in production for at least 5 years.
        
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        December 25, 2023 10:00am
  - Tweedse
    
    New Zealand has a major single point of failure, Huntley Power Station. If Huntley goes down that’s wide spread long term power outages for Auckland, the hub of New Zealands economy.
    
    I don’t hear any plans around what to do about it other than vaporware ideas of solar and wind.
    
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    December 25, 2023 9:31am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Build another coal fired plant. There is coal in the ground in Huntly.
      Importing from Indonesia is plain dumb, a Green brain fart.
      Keep the Greens and socialists out of the whole projects, they are just troublemakers.
      
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      December 25, 2023 9:53am
      - Tweedse
        
        I agree Steve, I just don’t hear any politician talking about this major problem. It doesn’t seem to be on their radar.
        
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        December 25, 2023 10:45am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “There is coal in the ground in Huntly.
        Importing from Indonesia is plain dumb, a Green brain fart.”
        
        Where the coal comes from is entirely down to the owner of the station. The owner imports the coal from Indonesia because it is cheaper than sourcing it in New Zealand. What is any other plausible explanation?
        
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        December 25, 2023 10:54am
      - CJames
        
        Not quite Steve. Because the coal demands of Huntly are episodic, not even seasonal, it is very hard for a single trading mine to supply it. Some months they want all the production and then some. Other times, nothing. So the mine has to find another market.
        From memory, a unit on full load burns about 130t/h. As they two shift the units, the likely consumption rate is about 1800t/d. There can be up to 3 units running. The coal yard at Huntly isn’t that big. Again from memory, it is less than a million tonnes. It also needs a significant turnover and spread out over a large area as the coal can disintegrate in the weather (hard to transport on the conveyors) or spontaneously combust if the pile is too high.
        
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        December 25, 2023 11:47am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Benedict. Importing from Indonesia means it is Indonesia’s pollution not ours.
        I think that’s how it works. Another Green brainfart.
        Huntly was built right were it is for a reason. On top of coalfields and the river for cooling.
        
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        December 25, 2023 12:39pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “Benedict. Importing from Indonesia means it is Indonesia’s pollution not ours.”
        
        Um no. That is not correct.
        
        The owners of Huntly need to buy enough New Zealand Units to cover the CO2 emissions from Huntly. It does not matter at all where the coal originates. The owners of Huntly are free to buy their coal from any source.
        
        Of course, transporting coal on a ship increases emissions because the ship burns bunker fuel. However those emissions are not the responsibility of any nation. Emissions from international shipping and aviation do not need to be accounted for in the inventory of any country.
        
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        December 25, 2023 1:38pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “Build another coal fired plant.”
        
        That would require the Government to ditch the Paris Accord Commitments. The PM has ruled that out.
        
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        December 25, 2023 4:55pm
    - wsk12345
      
      This isn’t strictly true. Huntly is made up of multiple units, so a credible contingency is the loss of one unit. This is no bigger than the loss of part of the cook strait cable or large hydro generator.
      
      What event are you thinking of that could take out multiple Huntly units? Major natural disaster? Is flooding plausible for the Waikato? Terrorism? We got bigger problems if any of those are the case.
      
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      December 25, 2023 11:50am
      - CJames
        
        You are partially correct. The biggest hydro units are only half the size of the Huntly Rankine coal burners. They are also a long way from the load. The biggest single generator is the CCGT at Huntly (E3P) at just under 400MW – currently OOS as no circuitbreaker. The second biggest unit is the slightly smaller Stratford CCGT.
        The biggest risk is loss of the DC system by an earthquake tacking out the pylons. Only one needs to topple to take both poles out. Drop 3 or f4 and break the lines and it will be out for a relatively long time in terms of the grid management. Certainly long enough to have a lot of power cuts in the North Island.
        
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        December 25, 2023 12:31pm
- Hugh Jarse
  
  Maybe it’s time to revert to the storage tanks fed off the roof with appropriate filters fitted ?. What else do you do when you can’t rely on the people you pay good money to provide a service and they don’t, it’s not like Wellington has any shortage of rain to keep tanks topped up. Next step back to long drops or night carts ?. Somehow I think the Greens would be happy returning to those times.
  
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  December 25, 2023 8:24am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Why don’t we have village wells like proper third world countries .
    
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    December 25, 2023 8:51am
  - CJames
    
    Only if the Green supporters were the nightcart operators. A job befitting of their skill level.
    
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    December 25, 2023 8:59am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      You expect Green supporters to work?
      There is no way in hell they will work, no time left to protest with the rent a mob.
      
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      December 25, 2023 9:59am
    - Jethrod
      
      Don’t tell them that there is money in shit
      
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      December 25, 2023 10:11am
      - CJames
        
        Or in more polite terms “Where there’s muck, there’s brass” which to be true to origin, needs to be said in a Yorkshire accent.
        
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        December 25, 2023 10:18am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  If you tell people to store 140 litres per person, you are not asking them to prepare for restrictions. You are asking them to prepare for water to be completely cut off for an extended period.
  
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  December 25, 2023 9:08am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yes. Once enough water is stored the Wellington Council can be even more useless.
    Is that even possible? More useless?
    
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    December 25, 2023 10:04am
- slightlyrighty
  
  Given that emergency measures are now recommended in Wellington, can we officially declare our council a Disaster?
  
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  December 25, 2023 9:25am
  - Steve Todd
    
    So long as you include all Wellington City councils in your declaration, going back at least 30 years.
    
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    December 25, 2023 10:05am
- John Loveridge
  
  If half of all Wellington’s water is being lost to leaks, does it follow that half of its sewage is also going anywhere but where it should be?
  
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  December 25, 2023 10:04am
  - cmm
    
    Sewerage is at a lower pressure. It also has solids which helps to make cracks self healing. But there are undoubtedly many leaks.
    
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    December 25, 2023 3:43pm
- freemark
  
  So if everyone buys recommended amounts of water storage, fills it all up with, um water…bang, there goes all the water from reservoirs, surely. Or do they hope that it’ll stop a bit of the leakage.
  
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  December 25, 2023 10:55am
- JimBobJoe
  
  On the money Ben. WCC, HCC, PCC, UHCC are the big councils in the Core wellington area.
  
  All are part owners Wellington Water along with the GWRC and South Wairarapa Council
  
  Councils fund Wellington Water and set priorities
  
  We have infrastructure problems for a few reasons:
  
  – Wellington is earthquake prone and that leads to cracks in pipes
  – Pipes deteriorate with time just by being in the ground: corrosion, tree roots etc etc
  -Stupidity by Councils deferring maintenance
  
  The third of those 3 items is the core problem. Deferring maintenance frees up cash flow to squander under the General Competence provision introduced in LGA by Ms Clark and Mr Cullen
  
  When you have the ability to defer critical, but boring spending, and spend the money freed up on:
  – monuments to your own greatness
  – ensure your reelection to the money trough
  – and/or enrich your mates by buying over priced services and goods
  Then corruption occurs and critical services suffer
  
  National needs to reform the LGA to take away general competence and tighten up Councils areas of focus PLUS they need to actively campaign at local level to ensure Councils arent playthings of Leftists pursuing political agendas at the expense of doing the basics brilliantly.
  
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  December 25, 2023 11:23am
- NZer In Exile
  
  Councils infested with minority-interests pushing activists are a major drag on the country.
  
  I believe they contribute in a major way to the accommodation affordability crisis. They also leave many essential services languishing in favour of pushing woke fantasy-world initiatives, all with other people’s money.
  
  I think they get away with this because voting for council people is not compulsory and also voters generally have no idea who these people are, what they believe, what they’ve been doing with their lives, what they’ve been involved in and what they will do once in council.
  
  Because all this has a major impact on the overall well being of the country I think central govt needs to overhaul all this so that people clearly know who the utopian and immature loon local council candidates are. Voters must also know they will be fined if they don’t vote.
  
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  December 25, 2023 2:19pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  I thought much the same when I read that article. It’s like the people paid to ensure water is collected, treated, distributed and then dealt with have simply given up.
  
  Describing the size and range and type of containers you should pay for out of your own pocket and then use to collect a week’s worth of water is patronising and pathetic. Let alone the impact on the current water supply if everybody takes a week’s worth out of the system over a short period.
  
  Are these people quite mad?
  
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  December 25, 2023 4:10pm
- Beach Haven expat
  
  Well done to Tory Whanau in being a true Mayor and leading by example. She stopped wasting water by necking vats of wine a long time ago.
  
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  December 25, 2023 10:21pm
- Thought Criminal
  
  Do not set up a commissioner. Do it bail them out.
  
  Wellington keep voting for useless lefty mayors. They must be made to suffer useless lefty mayors.
  
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  December 25, 2023 11:59pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Why are just about all dogs down at the SPCA Staffie-mongrels?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/wellington/301027140/wellington-animal-shelters-nearing-capacity–and-are-about-to-get-busier
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December 25, 2023 8:03am
- Jack5
  
  The pup in the picture may or may not be part-Staffie.
  
  People tend to attribute to “Staffie” any trait that looks to have features common in the bulldog-bull terrier breeds. A lot of backyard-bred part-pitbulls are abandoned.
  
  Staffordshire bull terriers are great family dogs, but you need to be able to control them around other dogs. They don’t back off in any challenge. However, they are often be a magnificent addition to a family with kids and good fences. They’re as empathetic to humans as a dog can be.
  
  But what is it with people who give or get pups as Christmas pets, and then soon cruelly dump them?
  
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  December 25, 2023 9:54am
  - wsk12345
    
    Our wider family had adopted many rescues over 50 years- kelpies, shepherds, husky , collies, huntaway, staffies and pitty mixes, whippet mixes. Frankly the best family dogs are the staffy/pit breeds, bull breeds in general. They are awesome with people, hugely engaged and empathetic and relatively easy to train, and low reactivity to situations that make other breeds fearful or anxious. On average I would say they are not as good with other dogs they don’t know, as other breeds.
    
    The problem is actually that assholes are most likely to adopt or buy dogs that look tough. They treat them badly, don’t feed them enough, don’t socialise them or contain them and don’t desex them. This many many more litters and they proliferate, breeding twice a year. It used to be Rotti’s, Doberman etc, now it’s bull breeds sadly. The problem isn’t the dogs it’s the sub-humans.
    
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    December 25, 2023 12:02pm
G152

Buy a water tank and install it.
Obviously the council is incapable of supplying water to rate payers
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December 25, 2023 8:06am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Rain all over the country and the MSM still run stories like this.

And they wonder why people no longer take them seriously.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/12/dry-summer-could-see-water-use-warnings-through-to-autumn.html
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December 25, 2023 8:07am
- Benedict Yu
  
  It depends where you live. At 9.00 am it is already 24 degrees in Christchurch and there is only the odd shower forecast during the next 10 days. Soil moisture levels in Canterbury were below average at the end of November and they would have fallen further in the last month.
  
  12 1
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  December 25, 2023 9:26am
- NZer In Exile
  
  Melbourne has been distinctly cool so far this summer. Today is raining non stop and cool. There have been a sprinkling of days over 30C but the general pattern is low 20s as the daily high. Last summer was also mild. By all appearances this is simply long term climate oscillations playing out. As expected, no word on this from the clown-media climate barkers.
  
  For some reason NYE and NYD tends to be hot here (like around 40C high). It will be interesting to see how that pans out this time around!
  
  7 2
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  December 25, 2023 2:26pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    That should be *around* NYE/NYD.
    
    3 1
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    December 25, 2023 3:36pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1031983447900077
5 4
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December 25, 2023 8:08am
Paulus

Nobody needs a Commissioner –
Look ate the Mahuta appointed Tauranga Commissioners, and she extended their term of destruction.
Only stage one is nearly completed.
Cycle lanes and no more parking principally (2 years).
Council Employees get a free ! bus pass to/from the CBD.
I hear, from elsewhere, that there is a chance that the present Minister may well extend their term again in June.
I hope not as even the current Commissioner head (ex National MP) admits recently that they made a mess of it.
Tauranga is a bombsite with lots of spending on new Council propositions and a new HQ. being built.
18 2
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December 25, 2023 8:28am
- mawm
  
  I must admit to being befuddled by the attitude that roads that are designed and built to convey traffic are okay to be filled with parked cars but bicycle lanes are bad.
  
  6 18
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  December 25, 2023 9:01am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    If the goal is to maximise the number of people able to reach their destination in reasonable time, it makes perfect sense.
    
    13 2
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    December 25, 2023 9:13am
    - mawm
      
      Nigel – What makes sense? Parking cars on the road effectively reducing the road by 1 lane on each side if it is a wider road, or waiting for the oncoming car to pass because the cars parked, generally on both sides, on the narrower roads have reduced it to a road one car wide?
      
      Bike lanes and parked cars do not work and are dangerous. Cyclists get killed when “doored” by inattentive drivers/passengers.
      
      2 7
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      December 25, 2023 1:23pm
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        It might pay to find out how many bikes are actually going to use a cycleway before deciding that a cycleway is a good idea mawm. Also, car parking on narrow streets is usually limited to one side of the road. And there are a shitload more cars used for day to day tasks than cycles. And whilst I’d suggest your comment “Cyclists get killed when “doored” by inattentive drivers/passengers” is perhaps true to some extent (if more than one gets killed by inattentive drivers|passengers ‘dooring’ them, it becomes true), there is also the counter argument that cyclists get killed by being inattentive and careless. After all, drivers and passengers have are equally allowed to alight from their vehicle.
        Perhaps cycles should be banned from certain roads as they are a hazard. That might fix any issues?
        
        6 1
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        December 25, 2023 6:13pm
      - mawm
        
        IVV – you might have noticed that I have been critical of badly designed cycleways.
        
        Cyclists do not have the time to respond to a door being opened immediately in front of them, attentive or not. In Europe drivers are taught to look for cyclists before opening their door. In the last few years I know of 4 cyclists that have died in NZ as a result of “dooring”. These are the ones that died at the site and have been reported in the press. I also know that some die days or even weeks later in ICU from either cardiac or pulmonary contusion. These usually are not reported in the press.
        
        1 1
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        December 25, 2023 10:22pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Ah – because the journey is also about the destination?
    
    7 1
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    December 25, 2023 9:18am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Many streets in Wellington, in particular, were never designed to have cars parked on them. In lots of hill suburbs, the streets are effectively one lane, at best. This has got much worse in recent years with extra residential development.
    
    13 5
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    December 25, 2023 9:22am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Yes but neither were many of the houses designed to accommodate off street parking. Hence the parking on the narrow streets.
      
      19 1
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      December 25, 2023 9:36am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Surely that is the responsibility of the property owners. I know, people will do what they can get away with. Most houses were built to accommodate one car on the property, max. These days it’s not uncommon for large developments on narrow roads to have no allowance for on-site parking.
        WCC could gradually extend dashed yellow lines to good effect.
        
        7 10
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        December 25, 2023 10:00am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        There are many houses in Wellington where the property cannot accommodate any cars. Think Brooklyn and Mount Victoria. The owners of such properties have been parking their cars on the streets for decades.
        
        “WCC could gradually extend dashed yellow lines to good effect.”
        
        Yes let’s make life difficult for property owners. Just because we can.
        
        19 4
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        December 25, 2023 10:57am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Despite a minority of starry eyed Utopians expecting everyone to ride bicycles or use public transport, car use (especially in NZ) is king! Since cars aren’t going away, how about simply build abundant big car parking buildings in high density areas? Probably cheaper than all the other batty schemes.
        
        8 2
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        December 25, 2023 2:34pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        The other day Julie Anne Genter accused the Government of “being obsessed with cars”. All the Government is doing is reflecting the preferences of the population.
        
        Putting aside small outliers like Liechtenstein, New Zealand has the second highest rate of car ownership globally, slightly behind the USA.
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita
        
        10 1
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        December 25, 2023 3:44pm
      - Beach Haven expat
        
        BY above, the way to turn that around is ask Julie-Anne why she was so obsessed with a car on her way home from giving birth.
        Delighted to virtue signal with a photo of her cycling to hospital but I missed the return journey image. I don’t think it is unfair to assume that after giving birth that JAG wasn’t keen to be bouncing up and down on a bicycle seat with bubs rammed in the front shopping basket.
        Yet everyone else is car obsessed but for Comrade JAG it is perfectly fine.
        
        3 1
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        December 25, 2023 10:27pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Straw man, Mikey. I can’t think of a single cycleway in Wellington constructed or mooted for such roads. It’s the arterial routes that suffer cycleways.
      
      In the hill suburbs, locals have muddled through with on street parking just fine.
      
      14 4
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      December 25, 2023 9:50am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I wasn’t referring to cycle lanes – just to the ever-increasing obstruction of hill roads by parked cars in situations never intended.
        
        6 10
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        December 25, 2023 10:01am
      - mawm
        
        NeverMind – the arterial routes with 2 lanes each way usually have 1 lane used by buses (and cyclists) until the rush is over after which it becomes a parking lot effectively blocking 1 lane. The oncoming 2 lanes have parking in 1 lane until it becomes a bus lane for the evening rush. Effectively the 4 lanes are functionally just 2 lanes. Apart from the poorly designed cycleways the parked cars are more of a hinderance to commuting.
        
        3 3
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        December 25, 2023 1:13pm
    - 3-coil
      
      mikenmildagain: “WCC could gradually extend dashed yellow lines to good effect”. FFS what council do you work for to be able to utter such pitiless drivel as that?!
      
      9 4
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      December 25, 2023 11:19am
    - Inandout
      
      m&m, and of course those bloody EV cables that trip you up when crossing footpaths.
      
      7 2
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      December 25, 2023 12:34pm
    - G152
      
      I know its a failed answer but houses have garages and drives to park cars in
      
      2 4
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      December 25, 2023 1:29pm
Chris Nisbet

“In modern history” – You can be sure that if it was a warm temperature record that they would forget to mention that bit. They’d probably say “evah!” instead.
Also no mention of the fossil fuels that undoubtedly saved thousands of lives by keeping the people warm.
I’d be willing to bet at least a couple of chocolate fish that it wasn’t wind and solar that saved the day in Beijing.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2023/12/beijing-records-longest-cold-wave-in-modern-history.html
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December 25, 2023 8:32am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

https://rumble.com/v411k8a-flashback-comedian-hilariously-roasts-hillary-clinton-to-her-face.html?
Special message from the sponsor.
15 5
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December 25, 2023 8:36am
- NZer In Exile
  
  Excellent 😂
  
  5 3
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  December 25, 2023 3:57pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    And from the same rumble channel:
    
    Douglas Murray BODYBAGS liberal Cenk Uygur on Israel-Hamas war — WHOA
    
    https://rumble.com/v42rb2b-douglas-murray-bodybags-liberal-cenk-uygur-on-israel-hamas-war-whoa.html
    
    Murray again nails it and leaves Cenk looking like a freshly smacked arse!
    
    4 3
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    December 25, 2023 4:10pm
    - ISeeRed
      
      Is “BODYBAGS” the new “DESTROYS”? It’s not even a verb. How I hate clickbait.
      
      2 1
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      December 25, 2023 7:55pm
Yvette

Start a lunch-time argument with your in-laws

SIMEON BROWN (National—Pakuranga): Thank you, Madam Chair, for the opportunity to take a call on Part 1 of the Water Services Entities Bill. I appreciate the opportunity to ask the Minister some questions. My questions relate particularly to clause 4, “Te Tiriti o Waitangi/the Treaty of Waitangi and Te Mana o te Wai”. The clause states, “(1) All persons performing or exercising duties, functions, or powers under this Act—(a) must give effect to the principles of te Tiriti o Waitangi/the Treaty of Waitangi; and (b) must give effect to Te Mana o te Wai, to the extent that Te Mana o te Wai applies to those duties, functions, or powers.”
My question is: what are the principles of Te Tiriti o Waitangi/the Treaty of Waitangi? I can’t find them defined in the legislation. I’ve been through the definitions in the bill, and there’s a range of definitions in terms of the interpretations: board members, chairperson, commission, committee, constitution, stormwater network, green stormwater network, and a whole range of other things, but I can’t find any definition of what the principles of Te Tiriti o Waitangi/the Treaty of Waitangi are.
The question I have that follows that is: is there a difference between the interpretation of Te Tiriti o Waitangi/the Treaty of Waitangi, and which interpretation will prevail? I understand there’s a range of judicial court judgments which have been handed down over the years by our illustrious courts in this land, trying to interpret the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi, and I ask the Minister why this has not been put into the legislation to clarify what is actually meant.
https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20221122_20221123_04

This is part of the 3 Waters legislation and will likely be thrown out with the bathwater, but the question remains: what are “the principles of te Tiriti o Waitangi/the Treaty of Waitangi”

I’d have though anyone who was arriving in New Zealand to take up residence, as part of the rest of the performance that goes with that, might be given a booklet that says these are the principles which make up how the country operates,”European” and Maori, and what all citizens should know and abide by.

But if they did that then new arrivals would know something the rest of us don’t, some even after living here for several generations
27 3
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December 25, 2023 8:39am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Part 1 of the Water Services Entities Bill was a missed opportunity to define the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi.
  
  Unless, of course, you don’t know what they are. Or you don’t want to limit yourself when it comes to defining additional Principles. Or both.
  
  13 4
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  December 25, 2023 9:09am
- Benedict Yu
  
  They probably do get a booklet.
  
  The Principles of the Treaty are rote learned by every public servant.
  
  The “three Ps” partnership, participation and protection.
  
  If you can’t explain these principles at a job interview it is all over. Hence job applicants rote learn the answers.
  
  11 3
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  December 25, 2023 9:46am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Wow, so what NZ has is a shadow form of quasi marxist governance. How about the real democratically elected govt lays down the law demanding that woke ideological bullying has no place in the workplace.
    
    7 3
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    December 25, 2023 2:40pm
  - Matt Long
    
    The government loves three part alliteration, Partnership, Participation and Protection.
    Eliminate, Isolate, Minimise. (Not perfect alliteration.)
    It was so much easier in the days of four legs good, two legs bad.
    
    5 2
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    December 25, 2023 2:54pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

Maori do not like their history so want it removed. They want the hard facts replaced with a flowery spin version.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/douglas-murry-on-whats-happening-with-maori-in-new-zealand-a-must-watch/
12 4
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December 25, 2023 9:33am
Yvette

Inaugural Foreign Policy Speech to Diplomatic Corps
Foreign Affairs – 4 February, 2021
As the first indigenous woman to lead this portfolio, I believe we have a prime opportunity to call on the bi-cultural values that have characterised who we are.
Values such as:
• manaaki – kindness or the reciprocity of goodwill;
• whanaunga – our connectedness or shared sense of humanity;
• mahi tahi and kotahitanga – collective benefits and shared aspiration; and,
• kaitiaki – protectors and stewards of our intergenerational wellbeing.

Each of these values when expressed in a relationship gives a sense that everything is connected and purposeful. What the world needs now is a commitment towards empathy, sustainability, and intergenerational solutions for wellbeing.

Our values act as fixed markers to guide our way towards the peaceful and prosperous future we seek.
These worldviews and aspirations vested in the Treaty of Waitangi attempted to bring together a shared aspiration for our country bringing together knowledge, respect, understanding and innovation to shape the nation we want to be. We have had many challenges but we keep moving forward.
There is no better metaphor for where we are as a nation than the modern aerodynamic Team New Zealand waka, Te Rehutai. Bringing together the proud maritime legacy of two cultures – this indicates that together we have the capacity to move forward with confidence.
No reira kua pari ngā tai, kua timu ngā tai, he tai ope, he tai roa e kūmea mai nei i te tai nui kia eke panuku, eke tangaroa, Haumi e! Hui e! Taiki e!
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/speech/inaugural-foreign-policy-speech-diplomatic-corps

(Google translate: That’s why the tides are steep, the tides are raining, a strong tide, a long tide that pulls from the big tide to rise and fall, invest! Come on! Take it!)

Mahuta may have just as well presented the values of the Sermon om the Mount (the Person who was born supposedly on this day), for all any foreign policy values stir Putin, Hamas or the Isreal Co-alition Government to reflect on their course of action …
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December 25, 2023 10:12am
- herb1
  
  It’s almost if these values shrunk into a Maori word, aren’t common in any other country , culture or race, particularly in New Zealand.
  
  9 2
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  December 25, 2023 12:08pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Nanny State Christmas feast.
Not even a quarter of what a physical working guy needs.

https://assets.nationbuilder.com/taxpayers/pages/2723/attachments/original/1703176170/Nanny_State_Christmas_Feast.pdf?
7 4
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December 25, 2023 10:57am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  No wonder our Greenies look so pale and wan as they exist o their vegan diet of soy lattes and nut roasts!!!
  
  9 3
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  December 25, 2023 11:20am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “Not even a quarter of what a physical working guy needs.”
  
  Not really. A man doing high levels physical work needs about 3,300 calories per day. A guy doing an office job, who exercises three times per week needs about 2,500 calories per day.
  
  Sadly you don’t need as much food as you think you do.
  
  8 1
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  December 25, 2023 11:50am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I would eat about 3 time that in a day, and I am not working anymore.
    60 grams of roast lamb? Shit that fits on a fork for one mouthfull!
    Did not see any eggs. I have 2 to 5 a day!
    
    8 2
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    December 25, 2023 12:57pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I guess everyone is different. I am trying to lose weight. I eat less than what is shown in that graphic, and I’m managing to lose about 0.5 kg per week.
      
      6 1
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      December 25, 2023 1:33pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I have no idea how many calories for me. I have been a reasonably big eater all of my life. Only 5fy 7in, but brick shithouse stuff.
        
        5 2
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        December 25, 2023 2:37pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        I find exercising hard (sweat dripping and heart racing) for about 20 mins up (IE steep hill climb) and walk down the same steep incline 3x a week is what really rips off excess weight for me. Probably not recommended for anyone with heart problems. 3x a week 1 hour brisk street walk possibly better for them (with doctor’s OK). Avoiding alcohol and low/er carb/shorter daily grazing-time window also does work (more slowly) but I find that a lot harder to maintain long term.
        
        5 2
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        December 25, 2023 2:48pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    I agree 100%. There is not a fat epidemic, there is an eating epidemic.
    Cancel all Food TV shows and displays. Cancel food advertising.
    Sort of like the smoke free campaign.
    
    To many people have a seafood addiction (see food and eat it).
    The byproduct of affluence. Please dont give me the BS about low income people and fast foods.
    THAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM!!!!
    
    Bias. I have been the same weight for the last 50 years. I am not a foodie.
    Adult Son morbidly obese, cant pass food without “”a taste””
    
    10 2
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    December 25, 2023 2:02pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      No fat on this old boy. I don’t snack. I drink, even that does not affect me.
      What I like is the American/Alaskan way. Tea and biscuit in the morning, then a reasonable meal about 11am. Then another large meal about 4pm. Desert in the evening. Now retired and that is about my daily routine – two meals.
      
      5 3
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      December 25, 2023 2:44pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Wow – you would find it difficult in Argentina and Spain 🙂
        
        Tiny breakfast with coffee.
        
        Lunch at 2 pm
        
        Dinner at 10 pm
        
        5 1
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        December 25, 2023 3:37pm
    - Rich Prick
      
      Yes that’s half of the solution. The other half is to get those rather ample arses off the couch and out for some exercise.
      
      3 0
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      December 25, 2023 7:23pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        It appears that others (data?) do not agree.
        
        https://time.com/6138809/should-you-exercise-to-lose-weight/
        
        Its not exercises that lose weight, its not eating that is the clear winner in everything I have read.
        
        Forget all those Fakebook adds about exercises to lose weight, dive deeper in to the intermittent fasting world science
        
        2 1
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        December 25, 2023 7:54pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Looks pretty similar to what I fed Hubby yesterday (minus the alcohol and 1 slice of toast).
  
  And not too dissimilar from what he’ll get today…..(with some cabbage & egg piroshki as a treat).
  
  7 2
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  December 25, 2023 12:11pm
  - Matt Long
    
    Gulag Wassilieff with Christmas cheer.
    🤶🤶🤶🤶🤶
    
    7 1
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    December 25, 2023 2:58pm
- cmm
  
  There is nothing wrong with occasional pig-out feasting.
  The problem is that too many people have have feast-sized meals many times per week.
  
  5 1
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  December 25, 2023 3:48pm
NothingLeft

Confirming the obvious: Virtue and Victim – Signallers (eg exploiters of identity politics and far left politicians like Greens and Te Racists) tend to be Narcissists:
https://youtu.be/MU5bMVROz6I?t=136
4 3
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December 25, 2023 11:35am
- NZer In Exile
  
  Big time. All the virtue signallers I knew on FB were absolutely narcissists! All stonking big hypocrites too!
  
  6 3
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  December 25, 2023 2:50pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/133497881/heartbreaking-vandalism-damages-19-trees-planted-for-community
The ferals who did this should be named and shamed for all to see.
Why is that so hard ?
6 1
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December 25, 2023 2:49pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Let a society go lawless and you get more of this crap.
  I noted Stuff’s pathetic footnote:
  “Not here for the hate.
  We’re increasingly concerned by the bad behaviour on X…blah blah blah”
  
  Gosh what a pack of completely dishonest and hypocritical plankers. They never cared about the lefty hate-fest and lefty pile ons when twitter was run by their far left mates!
  
  14 2
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  December 25, 2023 3:10pm
NothingLeft

Very clear stats demonstrating why you cannot allow women to control institutions if you value freedom of enquiry and speech. When polled women are generally for restriction controls and policing of thoughts and behaviours, men are generally for open enquiry and seeking of truth and freedom.

This is in a nutshell why all our increasingly female dominated institutions, academic, political etc are trending towards repressive dogmatic enforced-conformity of belief, and we are seeing such divergence between the female dominated left and male dominated right.

Can democracy survive over the long term when women appear to hold preferences that favour strict enforcement of ‘acceptable’ beliefs – something that will inevitably result in a slide towards authoritarian and eventually dictatorial govt?

https://youtu.be/GKJ5wqKjous?t=1730
10 2
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December 25, 2023 5:07pm
- NothingLeft
  
  later in same discussion: Female academics will prioritise belief in woke nonsense while male academics will not believe it, but self censor to keep their jobs. End result is academia pushes bullshit versions of reality into the world and censors truth.
  https://youtu.be/GKJ5wqKjous?t=3452
  
  Academia is truly toxic and not-fit-for purpose so long as woke dogma, institutionally enforced more by women than men, holds the reins. It’s manufacturing and pushing inevitably damaging lies. Time to stop funding this regressive nonsense. Shut it down
  
  7 2
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  December 25, 2023 5:33pm
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    We can’t shut academia down, as we do need doctors, engineers, scientists, psychologists etc. But the sector is overdue for reform.
    
    4 1
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    December 25, 2023 7:14pm
    - Taieri
      
      What do we need psychologists for?
      
      1 3
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      December 25, 2023 8:10pm
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  I like Chris Williamson’s interviews. He’s relaxed and humorous, yet rigorous. And he challenges his guests when he’s not entirely convinced by something.
  
  1 0
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  December 25, 2023 7:17pm
- mandk
  
  “When polled women are generally for restriction controls and policing of thoughts and behaviours, men are generally for open enquiry and seeking of truth and freedom.”
  
  I agree. Women were about twice as likely as men to vote for the most authoritarian party in parliament: The Greens.
  
  They were also more likely than men to vote for the second most authoritarian party: Labour.
  
  5 0
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  December 25, 2023 9:28pm
  - goNZ1
    
    Ageee, and the women judges on the Supreme Court have been the worst at judicial woke activism e.g Seabed & Foreshore etc
    
    4 0
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    December 25, 2023 10:48pm
Raphael

Good grief, the Left on X is having a complete meltdown over both Luxon and Willis both posting family photos celebrating Christmas.
17 2
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December 25, 2023 6:10pm
- Rich Prick
  
  The left have lost it. Post a photo of a lamppost and they will see a lynching. I quite like stoking their outrage by posting relatively benign stuff, but with just a hint of white supremacy/privilege/oppression then sit back and watch the burst blood vessels. It’s such fun.
  
  12 0
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  December 25, 2023 7:17pm
Fisiani2

Anyone know if the bat crazy cycleway is still going through Karori?
3 1
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December 25, 2023 8:18pm
rouppe

Hone Harawira. At one with nature, custodian of the land looking after the interests of Papatūānuku, Earth Mother.

https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/03/26/east-coast-farm-collapses-after-maori-carbon-group-takes-over/
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December 25, 2023 11:48pm

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