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December 24, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 24 December 2023

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General Debate

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artemisia

Mr Hipkins – “ Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose”.

Mine were raised on a different version – “Sometimes you win, sometimes you learn”.
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December 24, 2023 8:12am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  He still can’t work out where they went wrong, dumb as a sack full of hammers
  
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  December 24, 2023 11:12am
  - Keith White
    
    That’s kinda unfair to hammers. A hammer’s got on job and does it well, unless wielded by a Hipkinstype.
    
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    December 24, 2023 11:32am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      True, but they are hard to swing in a sack 😃
      
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      December 24, 2023 12:14pm
Ra Henare

While we talk about media bias.
With the wars in Ukraine and the middle east, I have been so bombarded by propaganda from all sides that I don’t believe a ferkin thing.
Especially within a few days of any announcement.

Examples
IDF arrest Direct or Hospital(1 month go)
Confession by said Director that he is Hamas Brigadier General, video from IDF 3 days ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJSc15uTBvY

At the moment he seem very relaxed and without any signs of duress.
My interest is
a) How come he can be a Military Brigadier General and a full time Hospital Director?
b) How come he has apparently given this relaxed response after 3+ weeks? Coercian?
c) Timing coincides with lots of International criticism of Israel bombing hospitals(and previous pathetic unsubstantiated by independants of so called command centers under hospitals.

Has it come from he same source as 40 babies beheaded?

Ukraine is winning the war.
https://www.businessinsider.com/who-is-winning-the-war-in-ukraine-russia-putin-zelenskyy-2023-6?op=1

Opinions from a handful of academics who noriously haven’t a clue on military activities.

I am for the underdog. But its bloody hard sometimes to work out from media bumf, who the underdog is.
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December 24, 2023 8:17am
- artemisia
  
  I watched that vid. Truth, reconciliation, immunity, witness protection? A possible explanation.
  
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  December 24, 2023 8:56am
- Scott
  
  Ra Henare- being for the underdog is all fine and good. But rather than working out who the underdog is and being for them, perhaps it is better to look for the truth?
  
  The truth is that Hamas was freely elected by the people of Gaza. Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. That is their literal reason for being. They hate their neighbour and want to kill them.
  
  You might perceive that Hamas are the underdogs. But what if the underdogs are murderous psychopaths whose dearest wish is to kill their neighbour? Are you really going to support them?
  
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  December 24, 2023 9:14am
  - Ghost
    
    To claim they were freely elected is to ignore that they haven’t had elections since 2006.
    
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    December 24, 2023 9:27am
    - Matt Long
      
      Opinion polls purport to show Hamas enjoys overwhelming support, however knowing that you could expect a hard time for not supporting them, only reckless people would answer pollsters honestly.
      
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      December 24, 2023 9:41am
      - Che Guava
        
        Why wouldn’t Gazans naturally support Hamas, given that Hamas are Palestinians that are fighting for Palestinians? Are you saying they should support Israel instead? Why on earth would they? Did the French mostly support the Germans in occupied France, or did they tend to support the “terrorists” in the French Resistance? Obviously, it was the latter.
        
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        December 24, 2023 10:20am
      - MCōs
        
        Support for Hamas has increased dramatically in the West Bank according to this article. Up from 12% to 44%.
        A majority of ‘reckless people’ don’t support Hamas in Gaza where they have 42% support
        https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514
        
        Pick the bones out of that!
        
        Personally I’m not sure how a credible poll could be conducted in Gaza
        
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        December 24, 2023 10:38am
      - Matt Long
        
        Che, there were very few French that actively supported the Resistance, many were quick to adapt to the Vichy Regime or German occupation.
        There were Nazis and Jew haters in every nation Germany occupied, and in Britain, no doubt New Zealand as well, as comments on X and political blogs would attest.
        
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        December 24, 2023 11:44am
      - Eugene
        
        Che- was it the sole aim of the French Resistance before the start of the war to kill as many Germans civilians as possible and wipe the nation of Germany off the map? I don’t think it was so supporting the Resistance during the subsequent occupation was reasonable.
        
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        December 24, 2023 12:03pm
      - newview
        
        You would have to have a death wish to support Hamas in Gaza now. Even the staunchest supporter would have to question Hamas tactics that has shown them merging into the general population which has resulted in the death and destruction right throughout Gaza. If they support Hamas now they are part of the Hamas family and are therefore complicit in the actions of their family in the initial attack on Israel. Hamas has encouraged the media to look at Israel as the aggressor. So far it hasn’t worked. I’m not judging History here, just this most recent conflict.
        
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        December 24, 2023 12:08pm
    - JimBobJoe
      
      Tough. The Germans voted in Adolf, Gazans voted in Hamas. You get what you vote for and now the price of that vote is coming due…
      
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      December 24, 2023 10:18am
      - MCōs
        
        The Nazi Party never won a majority except when they were the only party
        
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        December 24, 2023 10:46am
      - Ghost
        
        And if Jacinda had cancelled elections here, I doubt you would be going, tough, we voted her in.
        
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        December 24, 2023 11:02am
      - JimBobJoe
        
        @MCos…. They gained enough votes to get in control. And had widespread support… which ended in Russians in Berlin and a country shattered, after many, many aggressions and massacres
        
        @Ghost, no actually I would say tough we voted her in. I didnt personally, but over 50% of NZers gave her their voted in 2020 – stupidly in my opinion but there you go. Thankfully your scenario doesnt play out in NZ as we have acceptance of elections across the two big parties and no openly totalitarian outfit in a position to form a government (yet, though the Greens would sure like the chance)
        
        Too you both: Gazans knew full well who Hamas were when the last election in the Strip was conducted. So yeah they have got what the voted for…
        
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        December 24, 2023 1:19pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Some in NZ voted for Ardern – just saying.
        I can’t find one single person who will admit it though.
        
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        December 24, 2023 1:58pm
  - Che Guava
    
    “They hate their neighbour and want to kill them.”
    
    Trouble is, the Israelis have the same hateful attitude towards their neighbours the Palestinians. This is completely clear from the rhetoric of Israeli politicians and military, not just recently but for 80 years or more.
    
    The cognitive dissonance required to hold the view that Israel is a completely pure victim of circumstance and justified in doing any action while the Palestinians are unmitigated evil and completely irrational is breathtakingly delusional.
    
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    December 24, 2023 9:38am
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      Nobody thinks that Israel is a completely pure victim of circumstance and justified in doing any action. But the fact is that they didn’t start any of the wars they’ve been involved in. In the case of the present war, they hadn’t done anything to Gaza except leave it with a functioning infrastructure and the wherewithal to get a viable economy going, and then to supply it with free electricity and water, and meanwhile to endure repeated rocket attacks over a period of years. No other country on earth would have put up with as much
      
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      December 24, 2023 9:55am
      - Ra Henare
        
        Dudly
        But the fact is that they didn’t start any of the wars they’ve been involved in..
        
        Run it thru any reputable historical fact check and you will find that statement false.
        
        Israel responded with wars after provocations from opposition actions sure.
        
        The latest example. Israel declares war on Hamas/Palestine. After a terrorist/military action. Hamas has never declared war on Israel.
        
        Israel had and has alternatives to all out war and mass destruction.
        
        It would seem that millions of people worldwide and over 100 countries agree. War/mass destruction is not the solution.
        
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        December 24, 2023 4:07pm
      - Jake Dee
        
        Oh come on! There is no way you can spin Israel’s control of Gaza as some sort of act of benevolence or altruism. They gained control of the territory by force in 1967 and they maintain control over it today by force. That force is directed by Israel for the benefit of Israel, not the Palestinians. The Gaza strip has never been permitted to have anything more than a lightly armed police force. Any transit or trade across the border may only move with the permission of Israel or Egypt, both funded and directed from Washington. Any person in Gaza that Israel wants dead may be killed without legal review, permission or appeal from anyone in Gaza.
        Any Palestinian state that Israel has ever agreed to is what Gaza is now, a subjugated vassal semi-state without self-determination or sovereignty. What people in the world would tolerate that?
        Now, all of the above COULD be justified but it can’t be justified by anything like Democracy.
        This is old school Blood and Soil politics and the Law of The Gun.
        
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        December 24, 2023 4:26pm
    - JimBobJoe
      
      And yet the State of Israeli has peace treaties with Jordan and Egypt after both conspired to wipe the Israeli state out on a few occasions – hell they gave land back to the Egyptians as part of land for peace deals. And Israel would happily have peace with all its neighbours and has offered the Arabs of Gaza and the West Bank opportunities for a peaceful solution many times.
      
      Your Jew hatred shines through your comments no matter how you try to disguise it….. You are almost our old friend Keas doppleganger but more erudite
      
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      December 24, 2023 1:21pm
      - Che Guava
        
        “Your Jew hatred shines through your comments….”
        
        When all else fails, call someone a hater. Boring. Please, let’s grow up and discuss things like adults shall we.
        
        I don’t hate anyone, I just make judgments on the basis of available facts and on inferences therefrom. I make no apologies if this means I deviate from a consensus that is wrong.
        
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        December 24, 2023 2:29pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        Sometimes humour can summarize difficult subjects.
        The Irish are very good.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldsWc2sxL9s
        
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        December 24, 2023 4:12pm
    - crikey
      
      Che Guava: If you want to talk about history regarding the Jewish people, you need to know and understand it. Your comment shows that you don’t.
      
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      December 24, 2023 1:55pm
      - Che Guava
        
        crikey
        Well, here’s your chance to enlighten me and all the other readers.
        
        The reason I have the views I do is because I am familiar with “history regarding Jewish people” unlike those who seem to think they can do, and have done, no wrong.
        
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        December 24, 2023 2:32pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    Scott
    So remind me again.
    Hamas was freely elected. Agreed.
    Ask why. Certainly not because of October 7th.
    A little bit of background is helpful albeit Wikiopinion.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Hamas
    Likud(Israel) was elected 2022
    Both Hamas and Likud want to rid themselves of each other. Both want to kill the other.
    
    Scott you are going down an ideological path that does not in my opinion, lead to truth.
    
    Again, thats why I have little faith in the propaganda coming out of Israel/Palestine.
    
    I refer you to the 40 babies decapitated story amongst others that get debunked after a few days/weeks.
    
    Remember, wars are started by politics, not people. ergo the creation of Israel was an act of politics. Which has lead to the result long list of military engagements.
    
    Another metric to consider.
    
    Who has done more damage/killed more of the opposition than the other, in pursuit of their removal/destroy objective.
    
    Mathematics can solve that.
    In my view Palestine is the underdog.
    
    Just as the Donbas was the underdog in the beginning. Ukraine is now the underdog.
    
    Truth is a perception. One mans truth is another mans lie.
    I am reminded of a large 6 painted on the ground. From one perspective it is a six, the other perspective shows a nine.
    
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    December 24, 2023 3:42pm
- Che Guava
  
  Speaking of Ukraine, about 10 times the number of children have already been killed in Gaza by Israel in only two months as in two years of war in Ukraine by both sides.
  
  “Gaza Civilians, Under Israeli Barrage, Are Being Killed at Historic Pace”
  
  “Even a conservative assessment of the reported Gaza casualty figures shows that the rate of death during Israel’s assault has few precedents in this century, experts say.”
  
  https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/25/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-death-toll.html
  
  “Researchers point instead to the roughly 10,000 women and children reported killed in Gaza as an approximate — though conservative — measure of civilian deaths in the territory. International officials and experts familiar with the way figures are compiled by health officials in Gaza say the overall numbers are generally reliable.”
  
  “More women and children have been reported killed in Gaza in less than two months than the roughly 7,700 civilians documented as killed by U.S. forces and their international allies in the entire first year of the invasion of Iraq in 2003, according to estimates from Iraq Body Count, an independent British research group.
  
  And the number of women and children reported killed in Gaza since the Israeli campaign began last month has already started to approach the roughly 12,400 civilians documented to have been killed by the United States and its allies in Afghanistan during nearly 20 years of war, according to Neta C. Crawford, a University of Oxford professor who is co-director of Brown University’s Costs of War Project.”
  
  https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-09/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/the-israeli-army-has-dropped-the-restraint-in-gaza-and-data-shows-unprecedented-killing/0000018c-4cca-db23-ad9f-6cdae8ad0000
  
  “The IDF chief of staff recently boasted of the army’s precise munitions and its ability to reduce harm to noncombatants. But the data shows that in the war on Hamas that principle has been abandoned.”
  
  “This calculation shows that out of the total of 6,747, at least 4,594 individuals of both sexes who can be categorized as noncombatants were killed – 68 percent of the total. For the sake of caution, let us assume, as Prof. Kobi Michael from the Institute for National Security Studies argues, that errant rockets count for about 10 percent of the total rockets fired by the Gazan forces, and could do injury to their civilians, as was with the case in the strike on the Al-Ahli Hospital. If we reduce accordingly the number of noncombatants killed by Israel, the proportion decreases to 61 percent of the total, which is still far higher than the proportion of 33-42 percent for the aerial attacks in the past.”
  
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  December 24, 2023 9:51am
  - mandk
    
    Anyone who cites the NY Times as their authority cannot be taken seriously.
    
    NY Times is as unbiased as Stuff.
    
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    December 24, 2023 2:12pm
    - Che Guava
      
      Attack the source, not the substance, eh?
      
      You’ll note, or course, that I also cite Haaretz above, an Israeli publication.
      
      Besides, the New York times is an archetypically Jewish publication, run for generations by the Sulzberger family.
      
      https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-sulzberger-family-a-complicated-jewish-legacy-at-the-new-york-times/
      
      “The familial exchange of power wasn’t unexpected. The younger Sulzberger is the sixth member of the Ochs Sulzberger clan to serve as publisher of the prominent New York newspaper. He is a fifth-generation descendant of Adolph S. Ochs, who bought the newspaper in 1896 as it was facing bankruptcy.
      
      The family’s Jewish history — Adolph Ochs was the child of German Jewish immigrants — has often been the subject of fascination and scrutiny, especially during and after World War II, when the paper was accused of turning a blind eye to atrocities against Jews.”
      
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      December 24, 2023 2:38pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        NYT is so overtly political and narratively left-biased in nearly everything it publishes that it simply cannot be trusted as a source for debate on anything with political connotations. It’s clustered with CNN, Guardian, VOX etc
        
        https://wilmlibrary.org/fact-checking/
        
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        December 24, 2023 5:29pm
- emmess
  
  How come he can be a Military Brigadier General and a full time Hospital Director?
  
  You think he was devoting his life to making sure Gazans were getting the best possible medical care? LOL
  
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  December 24, 2023 10:34am
  - Ra Henare
    
    A non reasoned response em mess.
    I would get that knee fixed if I was you. 🙂
    The spontaneous jerks need attention.
    Merry Christmas.
    
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    December 24, 2023 3:49pm
  - Nickc2
    
    How come he can be a Military Brigadier General and a full time Hospital Director?
    
    Simple, in the Military (ours included), Hospital Director is the job one holds, whereas Brigadier General is the rank one holds in performing that job.
    
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    December 24, 2023 4:11pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      The use of Military in my reference is to military involvement rather than an identifying rank for pay/prestige purposes.
      
      Take any senior Medic in NZ or Aus forces. NONE will be militarily active.
      
      Another good example is the Man/Woman Admiral in the US Navy.
      
      On October 19, 2021, Levine was commissioned as a four-star admiral in the U.S. Public Health Service Commissioned Corps, becoming the first openly transgender four-star officer in any of the United States uniformed services as well as the first female four-star admiral in the Commissioned Corps.[26]
      
      No military involvement and certainly NOT privy to any operational military plans.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Levine
      
      But nice try Nickc2
      
      PS. I served 12 years in NZ and Australian Military.
      Medics were commissioned without any military experience. They needed Medics of a senior status. Most were embarrased by their ranks.
      
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      December 24, 2023 5:57pm
      - Jules
        
        This individual in the US Navy is not a female and cannot qualify as the “first female” anything.
        
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        December 25, 2023 6:00am
- David Garrett
  
  Ra: I agree it can be very hard to separate fact from fiction…particularly if one is a person like me who acknowledges that the Zionists didn’t inhabit an “empty country”, and that the Palestinians therefore have a legitimate grievance…
  
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  December 24, 2023 2:03pm
  - mandk
    
    If you accept that Israel has the right to exist, the Palestinians do not have a legitimate grievance.
    
    The Palestinians have had countless unprompted and mediated offers in relation to territory, but they have turned down every one. As Abba Eban famously said: “The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.”
    
    The reason? They are irrevocably committed to the elimination of Israel.
    
    What is happening now in Gaza is 100% the fault of Hamas and its backers.
    
    I stand with Israel.
    
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    December 24, 2023 2:21pm
    - Che Guava
      
      “If you accept that Israel has the right to exist, the Palestinians do not have a legitimate grievance.”
      
      The obvious problem is that, for Israel (i.e. the State) to exercise its right to exist, Palestinians necessarily had to have been/have to be either evicted from where they live(d), or subjugated as second-class citizens by an overtly Jewish supremacist ethnostate: that’s the source of the problem for the last 100 years.
      
      You can assert Israel’s right to exist all you like, but you then can’t act surprised when the obvious and predictable corollaries manifest. Typically, you only ever get half the equation from the Zionists, while they studiously neglect the second part where the Palestinians have every reason to not like it. They have a perfectly legitimate grievance against Israel.
      
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      December 24, 2023 2:56pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      If you accept that Israel has a right to exist.
      ie UN Resolution 181.
      Check the partition geography.
      
      Then you surely must also recognize Palestine right to exist.
      
      While on the subject of UN decisions.
      Israel has ignored many UN resolutions which declare the annexations etc of Palestinian land illegal.
      
      If you are short on time skip to 6 Dec 1971
      
      Resolution 2792. Refering to Resolution 191.
      stresses the “inalienable rights of the people of Palestine”, and calls on Israel to stop resettling the inhabitants of Palestinian refugee camps.
      
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      December 24, 2023 4:21pm
blue collar

Miracles do happen
I’ve Actually had the pleasure of experiencing fantastic customer service …. Yes I’m in NZ.

Multiple occasions during Christmas 🎄 shopping

God damned deadset miracles

I’m always courteous , please and thank yous , but Christ I’d say the typical NZ experience is average at best , typically poor .

Merry Christmas you big beautiful kiwi blogging bastards .
Hv a goodn 🤙❤️🥳
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December 24, 2023 8:23am
- goNZ1
  
  Caution- offensive language
  
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  December 24, 2023 9:20am
Bridgenag

The Great Christmas TTE quiz
Test your (and your families) knowledge around the Christmas table.

https://open.substack.com/pub/trusttheevidence/p/the-great-christmas-tte-quiz?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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December 24, 2023 8:29am
- JackRabbit
  
  [1] Which PM of which south pacific nation disregarded her own advisors advice to not lockdown, not introduce mandates, and to wait until Medsafe had investigated the vaccine as it had genuine concerns.
  
  [2] List all the countries where said leaders accepted multi million dollar bribes to push the vaccines.
  
  [3] List in order of percentage, countries and their excess deaths post vaccination.
  
  ….
  
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  December 24, 2023 9:05am
  - kowtow
    
    Funny innit , the amount of Wuflu said to be going around at the moment , they’ve even trotted out Dr Doom the Otago Baker “expert” media go to guy .
    
    But no real people give a shit , we’re going about our lives like we should , and the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse haven’t rode into town .
    
    So what was all the media /govt lockdown panic crap about ……….
    
    Never forget , never forgive.
    
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    December 24, 2023 10:25am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      They say 7000 cases a week, what happens to the 20000 a day, sick of hearing about it, I got it in March 21 didn’t realise I had it until I had been at work for 4 days, no one got it, spent the weekend in the pub, one person did get it but don’t know from where.
      
      Saying that, I hear the staff at Merino NZ went to their works do last weekend and all 23 got the pox this week, it works funny, but some people seem to be immune, and some don’t, we have had 3 people with COVID sitting in our smoko room until they realised they had it, it’s a very small room, but no one passed it on
      
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      December 24, 2023 11:23am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        But the ‘fear’ got passed on.
        
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        December 24, 2023 2:03pm
G152

Watching Aljazeera and for some reason the Polis dont seem to realise that after 70 odd years of attacking and attempting to destroy Israel has not worked. Finally the ‘reporters’ are as much targets as the uniformed and the terrorists.
War is Hell. Hamas surrender and it all goes away
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December 24, 2023 8:30am
- goNZ1
  
  The Jews living in the Promised Land don’t intend to be overun and nearly exterminated by the Muslim hordes as in past eons ever again. Or allow a repeat of the WWII Holocaust.
  And so it is no surprise that when a small country such as Israel has 1200 of its citizens butchered in a single day that the reaction is what it is. Countries such as Turkey,who wont even admit to their horrific Armenian genocide 100 years ago, are quick to condemn Israel for the Gaza carnage.Again Egypt and Jordan hypocritically refuse to accept any refugees fleeing the war,as they are terrified of Islamic Jihadists infiltrating their cosy dictatorships. Even worse, the geratric and hopelessly compromised Pres. Biden is going soft on Iran and letting the radical Houthis control the Red Sea with impunity. Sensing USA weakness, Putin and Xi Jingpeng are weighing up further unending global security….
  
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  December 24, 2023 9:53am
- Che Guava
  
  “Hamas surrender and it all goes away”
  
  Why should they? You could equally argue that if Israel pulled out of Gaza and removed its illegal settlements in the West Bank, then “it all goes away” for them too, vis a vis the Palestinians.
  
  You may retort: “Bbbb but, something something Hamas’ founding charter, something something…”. But you’ll never ask why Hamas even has the attitude expressed therein to begin with, which is the colonisation by force of Palestine by Jewish settlors.
  
  Clearly, Israel will never do that though, because they don’t want peace, they want to ethnically cleanse these areas of Palestinians (whether killing them or driving them out) and then annex the territories into the Greater Israel they have always dreamed about.
  
  Let’s get real about the situation here, rather than this silly lopsided view that tends to dominate in this forum and that is unsupported by facts or rational argument.
  
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  December 24, 2023 10:03am
  - emmess
    
    You could equally argue that if Israel pulled out of Gaza and removed its illegal settlements in the West Bank, then “it all goes away” for them too, vis a vis the Palestinians.
    
    But it won’t
    
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    December 24, 2023 10:38am
    - Che Guava
      
      OK, fine. But then let’s prepare ourselves for another 100 years of conflict, because neither side backing down guarantees this outcome.
      
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      December 24, 2023 3:53pm
  - Dudley Quaffquaff
    
    Israel pulled out of Gaza twenty years ago.
    
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    December 24, 2023 10:49am
    - hullkiwi
      
      ….if that is what you believe….shame that has not been the reality for the people of Gaza, Hebron or the West Bank.
      
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      December 24, 2023 2:11pm
    - Che Guava
      
      “Israel pulled out of Gaza twenty years ago”
      
      Sure, but they’ve also been blockading the area ever since, and the latest development is that they’ve killed about 10,000 Gazans and destroyed a third of all the buildings in the last 70 odd days. Yet we still can’t understand why the Palestinians hate the Israelis so much…
      
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      December 24, 2023 3:56pm
      - Tom Hunter
        
        Blockading? Israel is the one that’s been supplying them with water and electricity for twenty years, as well as allowing any amount of UNRWA material in, despite knowing that Hamas was confiscating a lot of it for their own purposes.
        
        Hardly matches up to the blockades of Germany in WW1 and other such.
        
        See also “carpet bombing” and “genocide”
        
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        December 24, 2023 5:12pm
      - Jake Dee
        
        So you are admitting that it’s Israel that controls the supply of water and electricity into Gaza. That’s supplied as the Israelis wish not as the Palestinians wish.
        In early 2006, Dov Weisglass, then a senior advisor to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, explained that Israeli policy was designed “to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger.”
        By what law or authority does Israel do this?
        The law of the gun and the authority of force.
        
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        December 24, 2023 5:34pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Tom Hunter seems unaware that Gaza has been under a blockade for over 15 years.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip
        
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        December 24, 2023 5:49pm
      - Tom Hunter
        
        Oooo – a Wikipedia article. Well that’s definitive.
        
        Meantime it’s always good to see “mma” on the same side as “Che Guava” and “Jake Dee”. Where they all always belonged.
        
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        December 24, 2023 7:15pm
      - Matt Long
        
        Any idea of why that blockade might exist Mike?
        
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        December 24, 2023 7:16pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      Israel (with Egypt) maintains complete control over access to Gaza by land air and sea. They funded Hamas and regularly launched raids to kill or capture whom soever they wished, when soever they wanted.
      All maintained by the logic of force and the power of the gun.
      
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      December 24, 2023 4:49pm
  - David Garrett
    
    Che: I generally find your comments either irritating or ignorant – often both – but I find I entirely agree with you this time…
    
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    December 24, 2023 2:08pm
    - Che Guava
      
      David: I generally find your comments either painfully monotonous (apparently you were once in Parliament and sponsored Three Strikes, since repealed much to your dismay) or historically illiterate – often both – but thanks for agreeing with me this time…
      
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      December 24, 2023 4:00pm
  - mandk
    
    “You could equally argue that if Israel pulled out of Gaza and removed its illegal settlements in the West Bank, then “it all goes away” for them too, vis a vis the Palestinians.”
    
    I nominate that for the most imbecilic comment of the year.
    
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    December 24, 2023 2:29pm
    - Che Guava
      
      Thanks, but I’ve got a very worthy competitor in you. Your own body of work is very impressive.
      
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      December 24, 2023 4:03pm
    - hullkiwi
      
      …and with that you demonstrate how little you know…
      
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      December 24, 2023 6:31pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    …. You could equally argue that if Israel pulled out of Gaza…
    
    What I always noted was that after the IDF forcibly removed Jewish settlers in Gaza – who very much did not want to go and regarded Ariel Sharon as a traitor for the deal – the local Gazans destroyed the farms, greenhouses and shops the Jews had been forced to leave behind – actually destroying that which could have helped them build a decent society. That sort of hatred is psychopathic.
    
    Kind of like Che, who sees Jews where I see Lefties. 😉
    
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    December 24, 2023 5:10pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      There was plenty of that going on, on both sides. Israeli settlers destroyed their own homes before they left to stop them falling into Palestinian hands.
      Shouldn’t that also count as pathological hatred?
      And if someone loots an abandoned property for stuff that could be useful, isn’t that perfectly rational? and if nobody else has legal claim to it (which the Israeli government admitted to by withdrawing) how could it even really be looting?
      There is a major disconnect going on here, where basic principles of law apply in one direction only.
      
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      December 24, 2023 5:45pm
      - Tom Hunter
        
        Israeli settlers destroyed their own homes before they left
        
        Links? I mean I could certainly imagine an angry Jewish settler doing that, but I’ve not seen any news stories that they did that.
        
        And if someone loots an abandoned property for stuff….
        That’s what I expected. Instead the Gazan’s simply trashed them, which is very different.
        
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        December 24, 2023 7:20pm
      - Jake Dee
        
        Links ? sure,
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza
        
        Interest quotes include
        “The evacuation of the settlers was completed by August 22, after which demolition crews razed 2,800 houses, community buildings and 26 synagogues”
        and
        “The Israeli Supreme Court, in response to a settlers’ petition to block the government’s destruction of the synagogues, gave the go-ahead to the Israeli government. Sharon decided not to proceed with their demolition, however. On September 11, the Israeli cabinet revised an earlier decision to destroy the synagogues of the settlements. The Palestinian Authority protested Israel’s decision, arguing that it would rather Israel dismantle the synagogues”
        
        None of this is hidden knowledge to those who want to look for it.
        
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        December 24, 2023 9:27pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Bollocks, Israel would love to have prosperous peaceful neighbours, and are very tolerant of the 20% Muslim Israelis. It’s the belligerent behaviour of Palestinians that has been the whole reason for isolationist warding stance of Israel. If you replaced every palestinian with a hard-working chinese or indian person there would be no problems – and almost certainly a regional economic renaissance. If you replaced every Israeli with a person of a non-muslim (and likely even muslim) ethnicity the current problems would persist.
    
    Israel were attacked in the 6 day war and as they fought back took the Sinai desert to the Red Sea/Suez and Gulf of Aqaba, Golan heights Gaza and West bank. They could have held on to them all, but decided to return all but the West bank and Gaza (for reasonable reason of needing to be better able to defend themselves against clearly beligerent neighbours) which they held onto without kicking out the citizens of the invading nations. That is generously compromising in the circumstances, clearly neither genocidal or ethnically cleansing (in stark contrast to the goals of the Jordanians, Egyptians and Syrians)
    
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    December 24, 2023 5:52pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      All of that is a clear admission that a person’s rights and privileges are (at least in this area) determined by which tribe they belong to. Some tribes are entitled to weapons, but other tribes are not.
      You can’t simultaneously claim that Israel withdrew from conquered territories as a “generous compromise” and also that they did it from military necessity. It’s either one or the other, a gift given at the point of a gun is no gift at all.
      That’s the logic we are dealing with here, an old school tribal land war. It’s just today this reality gets buried under a huge pile of political rhetorical bullshit.
      Genghis Khan was at least honest about it, he would ride up, tell you he was now your King and you could either surrender or die.
      I refuse to support either tribe in this, and I also refuse to swallow any tribes’ bullshit.
      
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      December 24, 2023 6:24pm
      - Tom Hunter
        
        I refuse to support either tribe in this, and I also refuse to swallow any tribes’ bullshit
        
        Chuckle. Yeah. Sure. And in the next chapter of A World Problem….
        
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        December 24, 2023 7:22pm
      - Jake Dee
        
        Not really a counter argument, is it? In fact, it’s borderline gibberish.
        
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        December 24, 2023 10:20pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        You’re argument (whatever it is) is not coherent.
        There’s been a wall around Gaza for nearly 30 years, with boundary near the ’67 line – from nearly 60 years back. It’s been strengthened and raised a decade back due to Palestinian aggression and tunnelling. Israel has been trying to hold back this violent midget taking swings at it for generations, hoping they would eventually calm down and get on with life. But Gazans just continue to escalate against a massively overmatching Israel, and breed at an utterly insane rate of 4-5% year on year increase – fighting a war with their kids misery as a weapon and taking them from 400k in ’67 to 2.4 million miserable population now. This is a Gaza generated problem, created by cultural failure. You can’t blame others when you shit your pants.
        
        And then oct 7th.
        
        When someone attacks you, you are, in any sane world, entitled to fight back. Aggressors need to be punished to deter future attacks. At a state level losing territory is a better means of punishment than financial reparations as it imposes less enduring cost on citizenry. Israel annexing land of people who attack them is a clear solution to aggression over the long term. If they had done that in ’67 and booted the Palestinians into Jordan (which was ethnically Muslim-Palestinian in Trans-Jordan era anyway) and Egypt they’d be in a far more liveable situation now, and perhaps the Palestinians would have got on with their lives and stopped being so invested in forever war as a lifestyle.
        
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        December 24, 2023 8:47pm
      - Jake Dee
        
        My position is coherent, yours is not.
        “When someone attacks you, you are, in any sane world, entitled to fight back. Aggressors need to be punished to deter future attacks.”
        That does not match up with
        “hoping they would eventually calm down and get on with life. ”
        That “calm down” is submit and surrender. Israels’ actions in Gaza over many years meet every definition of military occupation, it has no justification in law except the law of the gun. Everyone is entitled to weapons to defend themselves, carried themselves or by a friend acting on their behalf. Those who would claim the right to rule with lethal force also must assume the responsibility to protect and assist, that’s the only way it ever works. In Gaza, Israel only claims the right to lethal force.
        This current mess can’t be blamed on Hamas, you know this has been going on for generations, decades before Hamas even existed.
        
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        December 24, 2023 9:51pm
Chuck Bird

This is in the USA. I wonder what it would be like here.

Would College Students Donate to Support the Killing of Jews?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu8bSaGJeS8
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December 24, 2023 8:35am
- Benedict Yu
  
  It is San Francisco 🙁.
  
  So he spoke to 35 students asking if they would support attacks on targets such as schools, hospitals, and cafes in all countries to kill Jewish PEOPLE. 28 students agreed. 😣
  
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  December 24, 2023 8:49am
  - MCōs
    
    So he says
    I’m more inclined to believe there’s a certain amount of cynical editing going on there.
    
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    December 24, 2023 9:10am
    - emmess
      
      No, he said at the end 28 of 35 people offered support and 17 of 35 offered money
      
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      December 24, 2023 10:44am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        “he said” is doing a bit of work there, especially bearing in mind it’s Dennis Prager doing the saying.
        
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        December 24, 2023 5:07pm
  - Che Guava
    
    I don’t think the actions of the IDF in Gaza for the last couple of months are in any way helping the opinions people hold towards Jews in general.
    
    I think if they’d made this video on October 6th, there’d have been very different response. But we aren’t supposed to think in nuanced terms like this. We are invited to always think that anti-Jewish views are all to do with people holding those views, and never anything to do with what Jews are doing.
    
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    December 24, 2023 10:14am
    - David Garrett
      
      …and once again…
      
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      December 24, 2023 2:09pm
      - Che Guava
        
        Thanks, David. Brilliantly insightful, aren’t I.
        
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        December 24, 2023 4:05pm
- Che Guava
  
  Hamas hypothetically funded by US college students to attack Jews, IDF actually funded by US taxpayers to attack Muslims. What’s Dennis Prager’s point here?
  
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  December 24, 2023 10:10am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Actually, Hamas are funded by the UN with millions of dollars annually, which enabled them to build offensive infrastructure and acquire military equipment – but a small portion going to help the people, so the UN are hypocrites – but we all knew that.
    
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    December 24, 2023 11:15am
    - Matt Long
      
      Billions of dollars, including from NZ and hopefully formerly World Vision.
      
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      December 24, 2023 11:48am
      - Ra Henare
        
        Proof of your statement would remove any hint that you are making stuff up.
        Merry Christmas.
        
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        December 24, 2023 4:33pm
      - Matt Long
        
        This excludes direct aid from places like Qatar and Iran.
        https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/25/gaza-will-need-bilions-in-aid-to-compensate-for-years-of-blockade-un
        “There was also a decline in aid between 2008 and 2022, from $2bn, or 27 percent of GDP, to $500m, or less than 3 percent of GDP, last year.”
        
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        December 24, 2023 7:04pm
      - Matt Long
        
        https://www.wvi.org/jerusalem-west-bank-gaza/mohammad-el-halabi-trial-overview?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAp5qsBhAPEiwAP0qeJpP7rtC52cJlIpmxZ8sa61vRKHLAt1QY07elikZINf5N31_RWScHRRoCXmkQAvD_BwE
        Funding from World Vision diverted in Gaza.
        
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        December 24, 2023 7:08pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      Oh dear, another myth. propagated by the less critical thinkers.
      Actually, Hamas are funded by the UN with millions of dollars annually
      
      Reference or proof behind this statement would be great.
      
      Meanwhile.
      https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-cash-to-crypto-global-finance-maze-israels-sights-2023-10-16/
      
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      December 24, 2023 4:32pm
- Inandout
  
  San Fran downtown is a cesspit with needles and shit everywhere among the ‘homeless’. I wonder if any of these ‘enlightened’ students dare to venture into the CBD?
  
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  December 24, 2023 10:56am
Bridgenag

the process is the punishment
one need not be right to punish one’s enemies, only powerful
EL GATO MALO

…….we still got to beat the living hell out of you, exhaust you, take your treasure, drag your reputation through manufactured mud that washes off no more easily for having been made up, AND we get to put the frighteners upon any who might be inclined to emulate you.

and meanwhile, we and ours may do exactly those things of which we have accused you with perfect impunity and even accolade as we wrap ourselves in the mantle of power and profess it to be justice………

https://open.substack.com/pub/boriquagato/p/the-process-is-the-punishment?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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December 24, 2023 8:44am
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KporCJ3g0AU
Blue States to Lose a Seat or Two.

Blue states will lose 14 seats, and red states will gain 14. Americans are voting with their feet. Blue counties inside red states are losing population. [9:13]
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December 24, 2023 9:03am
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbfccVBo9tE&t=170s
Welcome to Columbia Untisemity.
Pro Hamas college students sketch as aired on the Israeli satire TV show “What a Wonderful Country” on channel Keshet 12. #ColumbiaUntisemtiy. [Parody, I think.]
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December 24, 2023 9:04am
Matt Long

Maori leader in Northland unhappy the new government might consider people more important than the Mauri of the water.
Strangely the Mauri of water seems best when it involves confiscation of other people’s property rights, and strangely the socialists are right on board with this.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/northland-maori-leader-angry-by-call-to-scrap-te-mana-o-te-wai-freshwater-principles/7CRMJ2QG5JFTBBI5BTPBPJ3OY4/
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December 24, 2023 9:49am
- kevn
  
  Matt… He must feel he is mi$$ing out on the benefit$$ //
  
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  December 24, 2023 10:00am
- Benedict Yu
  
  He is missing the point.
  
  Of course rivers need to be protected by limiting discharges of pollutants. All developed countries do this. None of them rely on subjective measures of the ” Mauri of the water”. That we even need to have this debate in the 21st century is insane. But here we are. ☹️
  
  This is how the Ministry for the Environment explains things.
  
  “In te ao Māori, a Māori world view, freshwater comes from the parting of Ranginui (sky father) and Papatūānuku (earth mother). These gods share a whakapapa (genealogy) with Māori people, and this underpins the connected relationship that Māori have with the natural environment – mountains, forests, and waters. All these elements are therefore related and hold their own mauri (life force) – a mauri that must continue in order to propagate life.”
  
  https://environment.govt.nz/publications/our-freshwater-2020/stepping-into-freshwater/
  
  The problem is that there is no earth mother or sky father. Neither does water have a “life force”.
  
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  December 24, 2023 10:09am
  - Inandout
    
    BY, but many a Maori property has long grass and the odd car parked permanently so I presume there is a grass mother and a broken down vehicle father.
    
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    December 24, 2023 11:00am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Tukoroirangi Morgan will be around for a chat and re-education shortly.
    
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    December 24, 2023 2:18pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    I personally have no problem at all with the “Sky Father” “Earth Mother” and “Life Force” stuff. It’s all a series of metaphors and that’s what language and thought is. A series of metaphors that grow more complex over time.
    English is full of metaphors from the ancient Gods, “Psychology” is from Psyche, Goddess of the soul, “Volcano” is from Vulcan, God of fire and the forge, “Erotic” is from Eros, God of love and desire.
    Do any of those things exist?
    
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    December 24, 2023 5:04pm
  - rouppe
    
    I’m a member of a Ruapehu Facebook group. Someone posted the legend about the brothers Ruapehu, Tongariro etc all wanting the same woman so there was a great fight etc etc and Lake Taupo and the Whanganui River were consequences of that battle.
    
    This, they said, was proof of the special close connection Maori have with the area (in the context of RAL liquidation).
    
    I replied that it was a story made up to explain something they didn’t understand because in fact Lake Taupo was formed some 20,000 years ago, millenia before Maori colonised the land.
    
    Five minutes later I was a racist.
    
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    December 24, 2023 7:05pm
Tasman devil

The next Labour Prime Minister hasn’t been born yet.
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December 24, 2023 10:27am
- Inandout
  
  Td, or perhaps has emigrated to here yet.
  
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  December 24, 2023 11:01am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  But but but, Cullens side kid tells us the the awkward sound Ginny has it in the bag next election. Behshahahahaha
  
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  December 24, 2023 11:26am
Jack5

Melissa Lee, Minister of Media and Communications, has more than a little bit to line up at the State enterprise, Radio New Zealand Ltd.

RNZ continues to promote Maori language above English in department names.

For example, today on its web site, Radio NZ has a report about a woman breaking her legs while in hospital care. “Te Whatu Ora” is used throughout the report without mention of the department’s English name, Health New Zealand.

Transport Minister Simeon Brown has been quick off the stop sign by instructing the New Zealand Transport Agency to use its English name first (rather than Waka Kotahi) in official communications.

The logo on the agency’s Internet home page continues to emphasise the Maori name, but ten thousand hacker kids could fix this for the price of a few new online games.

It will be interesting to see whether the agency proceeds with its plan to Maorify road signs. Independent tourists from right-hand-side road countries in hire cars subject South Islanders to not inconsiderable danger. Southerners should sigh with relief if sign language Wokery is blocked.

Red Radio using Maori name:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/505464/family-fuming-after-mother-fractures-legs-at-north-shore-hospital

NZTA internet logo that needs re-design can be seen here:

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/
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December 24, 2023 10:28am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  I heard that idiot who reads the news on TV still calling Transport NZ Wakakotahi, he should be forced to correct his statement
  
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  December 24, 2023 11:28am
Colinxy

I lacked the time yesterday to respond to Che Guava’s comments in “Radical reform for Argentina”.

Che Guava:
“What’s your definition of ‘socialism’ and why should I be concerned about it?

Socialism:
“A system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the State [proper noun, Ed].”

This is from the Merriam-Webster dictionary; all their other definitions are specific versions of socialism, but the above definition is generic to all forms of socialism.

Note: communism is the magical state where all goods are held in common without a State; a form of anarchy.

Che Guava:
What’s your definition of ‘fascism’ and why should I be concerned about it?

“Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State.” – Benito Mussolini

This is just a repackaging of socialism above.

Why should anyone be concerned about it?
Socialism is totalitarianism. If you don’t agree with the State then re-education. If that fails, death.

Socialism (and Fascism) are collectivist; where the individual is irrelevant. Their idea of utopia is dystopia for anyone but that narrow band of people who think correctly…and those in the utopian camp can be crushed, as was seen in how the Gulag sentencing operated.

Che Guava:
“…deflate and take the heat out of anything genuinely revolutionary and threatening to the status quo.”

And this is the language of Marx and his acolytes, the strawman of the status quo and the calls for revolution. Society is always in state of change. Revolutionary actions, especially all those descended from Jean-Jacques Rousseau are murderous (democidal).

In other words, you believe in some socialism variant, probably fascism:

“Why do capitalists and Marxists decry fascism so much? Because it is a rival system neither of which would benefit from. It is “evil” only because they wouldn’t be in a position of power.”

How post-modern – everything revolving power, hierarchies etc. For free-marketeers, fascism is yet another attack on freedoms. For Marxists, it’s a threat to their hegemony; a rival form of their religion.

Neo-Marxist terminologies that you’ve thrown around:

“It is completely unsustainable…”

“…inevitable consequence of late-stage capitalism…”

Fascistic:
“We need a third position, so to speak.”
The Italian Fascists stated they were “Third Positionists” as did the National Socialists German Workers Party (a concept derived from the Hegelian dialectic).

There’s the rewording of Jean-Jacques Rousseau’s “Social Contract” with your whole “individual” spiel. Something loved by the Marxian religions even if reworded.

Personally, I wish to live in a liberal society, and “the price of freedom is eternal vigilance”. It isn’t utopian and I have no desire to live in one. Utopias thus far have proven extremely democidal. That’s why I’m concerned about people pushing socialism – in any of its variants. You may push and get your socialist State. You will probably be murdered by the very system you helped set up as such systems have a habit of killing anyone perceived as a threat…which seems to be how enablers are viewed. I fail to see any benefit in a Socialist State. It’s just a reduction of most people becoming serfs or slaves again (or fertiliser).
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December 24, 2023 10:45am
- NothingLeft
  
  Very well written. Kudos.
  
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  December 24, 2023 12:29pm
- rouppe
  
  Fascism was born from Socialism. Mussolini was a socialist before turning to fascism. He was advised by Giovanni Gentile, a student of Karl Marx.
  
  The Trotters that continually say fascism is right wing do that so they don’t have to face responsibility for terrible things in history
  
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  December 24, 2023 7:14pm
  - Colinxy
    
    I think Gentile would have been too young to be a direct student of Marx. He was in a general sense a student of Marx (and Hegel). He even wrote a favourable book on Marx’s philosophy at the end of the 19th century.
    
    Eventually, he would state that Marx got Hegel’s dialectic wrong. Gentile would also state that fascism is socialism. In fact he stated that fascism was the only viable form of socialism.
    
    For those not in the know Giovanni Gentile was the philosopher of fascism. He was a major influencer on Benito Mussolini as a result. (Mussolini was a Marxist in his own right, reputedly able to quote Marx verbatim and at length).
    
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    December 24, 2023 9:59pm
Jack5

Christmas Eve again …

It’s the anniversary of Mary, Joseph, and the donkey heading into Bethlehem. Some Scandinavian country kids will go to stables in parent-fed hopes of hearing the animals talk. Can’t fool Kiwi kids like that, we just believe in flying reindeer.

It’s time to recall by far the greatest feat of exploration, America’s Apollo 8 orbiting the Moon.

On the ninth orbit of the Moon on December 24, 1968 – that is, Christmas Eve 55 years ago – astronauts Frank Borman, Bill Anders, and Jim Lovell recited verses 1 to 10 of the Genesis creation narrative in the magnificent English of the King James version of the Bible. Anders read verses 1–4, Lovell verses 5–8, and Borman read verses 9 and 10.

You can hear their broadcast of this here in a short (3 min) recording:

https://youtu.be/njpWalYduU4?si=g9cgXNf-7QuS9TZ5
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December 24, 2023 11:00am
- David Garrett
  
  Jack: Indeed…the wonderful Jim Lovell – now over 90 – records that the crew got into some trouble on their return…some churlish atheist made a formal complaint about a publicly funded organization – NASA – allowing its employees to read from the Bible and to broadcast it…
  
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  December 24, 2023 2:19pm
Ghost

Bit of a beat up of NZ Post. Once the documents leave NZ that’s it.

Personally if it was me I wouldn’t have left my son in India, I would have stayed there.

A couple has been collecting birthday gifts for their young son for seven years, hoping they will bring him back from India in time to celebrate his birthday in New Zealand.
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December 24, 2023 11:03am
- Che Guava
  
  Easy: move back to India.
  
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  December 24, 2023 11:20am
lifesgood

Dreadful parents leaving the little boy behind.
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December 24, 2023 11:13am
- Ghost
  
  I wonder if they have asked the child what he wants, I hope he doesn’t feel like he is being ripped out of his home to live with strangers
  
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  December 24, 2023 11:31am
  - Jack5
    
    Probably good hard working folk, but it’s worth noting that the dad ” works in a restaurant in Gisborne”.
    
    Meanwhile many brilliant Indians are setting up or running technology companies in America.
    
    NZ’s immigration policy of bringing in lower-skilled people is stupid.
    
    The UN says that by September there were 114 million displaced people in the world, and there are billions who want to move from Third World countries to the West, even poorly performing ones like NZ.
    
    Besides putting pressure on infrastructure, housing, and the health and education systems, bringing in low-skilled workers keeps wages low and reduces pressure to automate.
    
    Intelligent countries target highly skilled, highly educated migrants.
    
    8 2
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    December 24, 2023 11:52am
    - MCōs
      
      There are many businesses in NZ that rely on immigrants because locals aren’t available
      Fruit pickers, restaurant chefs, farm workers, nurses
      
      1 0
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      December 24, 2023 7:18pm
Chuck Bird

Parker is doing well at round 10.
7 0
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December 24, 2023 11:39am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Unanimous-decision victory for Joseph Parker!
  
  8 0
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  December 24, 2023 11:54am
- kowtow
  
  No doubt the New Zealand media will play it up bigly .
  
  But Parker greeted his family “back home in Samoa”.
  
  7 1
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  December 24, 2023 11:58am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    I believe he was born in South Auckland. He is related to Judith Collins’ husband.
    
    9 0
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    December 24, 2023 12:14pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    He usually has 3 anthems sung, he of course is Samoan
    
    5 0
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    December 24, 2023 12:18pm
- blue collar
  
  Yeah boyeeeee !!
  It’s a big stage and a big deal , well done Joseph !!
  
  Wilder was dropping mushies or some psychedelics in pre tournament camp n reckoned it chilled him out …
  
  5 1
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  December 24, 2023 2:37pm
Flossie

And we worry about rugby playing kids getting concussion.
6 1
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December 24, 2023 12:48pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Meanwhile, female journalists (and it is noticeably the females) wet themselves in enthusiasm about MMA, which is little more than licenced thuggery.
  
  Cognitive dissonance, right there.
  
  11 2
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  December 24, 2023 1:41pm
  - David Garrett
    
    nevermind: I have always found it deeply disturbing that so many women seem to enjoy sports – including boxing – in which the principal aim is to cause brain damage…[every KO causes brain damage]
    
    9 1
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    December 24, 2023 2:33pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      It’s hardly “the principal aim”, if it was, they would be ambushing each other with metal bars in carparks and alleyways.
      I have always found “tribal warfare by proxy” to be the best explanation for the existence of combat sports.
      
      5 0
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      December 24, 2023 5:18pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    There are interesting old stories about upper class Roman women sneaking into the colosseum back rooms have a private audience with champion gladiators after the show.
    Some things never change.
    
    8 0
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    December 24, 2023 5:14pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

The native are getting restless.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/removal-of-wanganui-memorial-should-not-be-allowed/
11 2
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December 24, 2023 1:25pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Is Julian Batchelor ok?
  
  1 0
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  December 24, 2023 4:40pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yes, but some here on this blog are not OK.
    
    Don’t push me Mike, I will win.
    
    2 1
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    December 24, 2023 6:32pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump can not withdraw from NATO if he is elected.
Really? US pays 4% of GDP, Germany pays 1%.
Well if the US can’t leave (says who?) Trump can reduce contributions down to 1%/
Congress changed to rules. So what? Change them back. NATO is a failure with a whole lot of bludging Countries who without the US are nothing. If those bludgers paid their fair share – different.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/trump-can-t-pull-the-us-from-nato-if-he-wins-in-2024/ss-AA1lMUXR?
7 4
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December 24, 2023 1:38pm
- CrazyIvan
  
  That’s % of GDP spent on defence, not contribution to NATO. It is more 3.5% v 1.5% in 2021 figures, but then all NATO members spend less on defence than the US with the exception of international military power, Greece (3.8%)
  
  The Congress vote is simply that Congressional approval is required to withdraw from NATO, mirroring the Senate approval to enter the defence pact back in 1949. If you need congressional approval to enter a security pact, then you should get congressional approval to leave it.
  
  4 0
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  December 24, 2023 2:04pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    What does the US get in return for their contribution?
    I don’t see why the US should be top donor.
    
    4 4
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    December 24, 2023 2:27pm
    - MCōs
      
      Domination of Europe
      Or put it another way non domination of Europe by Russia
      
      3 1
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      December 24, 2023 3:47pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      If they weren’t spending on NATO what else would they do? Reduce the defense budget?
      
      3 1
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      December 24, 2023 4:37pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Fuckwit. The US could spend it on the VETERANS!!!
        They get treated like shit.
        Trump 2024.
        
        5 3
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        December 24, 2023 6:35pm
surfing

My 18yr old daughter parked on the road near New World , and some old guy was watching her park… after parking, the old guy opened the door to the car and told her off for parking on the road outside his house. She told him she will park where she likes…. but, bit creepy and possibly a crime that he opened our car door?
13 5
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December 24, 2023 1:50pm
- David Garrett
  
  Get over yourself
  
  3 10
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  December 24, 2023 2:37pm
- Ghost
  
  So what crime did he commit? Good on him for watching a stranger park in front of his house. Most likely gets sick and tired of people parking in front of his property instead on using the shops parking.
  
  3 8
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  December 24, 2023 2:42pm
  - Albie
    
    The “crime” he committed IMHO was the act of violating someone’s private property by walking up to the car and opening the door. Who the F does that? Tapping a window to gain attention is what most of us would deem appropriate behaviour I would think?
    
    9 2
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    December 24, 2023 4:58pm
    - Ghost
      
      Can you link to where it says that is a crime. He hasn’t violated their private property, and hasn’t trespassed, he’s opened the door to talk to someone. I also expect there is more to this story than the one side we have been given
      
      3 3
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      December 24, 2023 5:13pm
      - Albie
        
        Ghost, not sure what neighbourhood you live in, but if someone walked up to my car and opened my door without permission they would be thankful they live in NZ and not the US!
        
        3 1
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        December 24, 2023 5:28pm
      - Ghost
        
        Is that a no that you cannot provide a link?
        
        1 2
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        December 24, 2023 6:04pm
      - rouppe
        
        It’s unnecessarily aggressive behaviour.
        
        The road is a public space. She has every right to park there. That old guy has no claim to the space outside his house on a public street.
        
        1 0
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        December 24, 2023 10:05pm
      - Ghost
        
        Always more than one side to the story. Shame the “old creepy” guy can’t give his side
        
        1 0
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        December 24, 2023 10:27pm
- blue collar
  
  Not sure on crime brother surfing , weird behaviour , he’s probably had enough of never being able to get a car park outside his own house due to the bloody supermarket proximity .
  
  It’s pre xmas and everyone is stressed out and manic and acting elevated . Just look at driving behaviour .
  It’s crazy out there
  
  If he keeps doing that he will either end up getting the bash , getting told to go fuck himself. Or worse ….” If you go looking for trouble , you’ll eventually find it “
  
  Probly venting at your daughter as she’s young and female . Nothing personal , n good on her for standing her ground .
  If it escalated there’s plenty of blokes around like myself only too happy to ….. assist
  
  5 2
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  December 24, 2023 2:44pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    A surprising number of people think they own the road outside their houses and no one but themselves should park there.
    
    10 0
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    December 24, 2023 4:38pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Maybe the old guy was being ‘polite’ just like opening any door for a woman?
  Told off – maybe. But chivalry is not dead.
  I gesture women and families to go on escalators before me.
  Manners ffs.
  
  2 1
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  December 24, 2023 6:39pm
  - rouppe
    
    I thought you stood in the middle with arms akimbo.
    
    1 0
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    December 24, 2023 10:08pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I do that to the impatient ones.
      “Excuse me”
      “yes, you’re excused”
      
      0 0
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      December 25, 2023 7:30am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Good reason to keep the doors locked.
  
  0 0
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  December 24, 2023 8:49pm
Chuck Bird

Alex Epstein has some interesting ideas on energy and global warming. At the moment more people did from extreme cold than extreme heat. Therefore a small rise in temperature means fewer people die from extreme temperatures.

https://alexepstein.substack.com/p/25-holiday-power-facts-about-energy
6 3
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December 24, 2023 3:34pm
Ghost

Weird. My backup HD has decided to fail, despite not being very old. Rushed into town to get a new one. Person behind the counter, why do I want such a large HD, ah, none of your business.
4 1
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December 24, 2023 5:06pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  They know much more than you do Ghost.
  That is how they are taught!//
  
  3 1
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  December 24, 2023 6:42pm
- Inandout
  
  Ghost, the portable HDs at around 1-2GB are generally more reliable than the larger ones.
  
  3 0
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  December 24, 2023 8:16pm

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