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December 15, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 15 December 2023

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General Debate

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CJames

There is a really good long form podcast over at Spiked. Brendan O’Neill talking to Ralph Schoellhammer on the West’s self-destruction.
https://www.spiked-online.com/podcast-episode/cop28-and-the-self-destruction-of-the-west/
The stupidity of wanting unreliable windmills instead of nukes, the benefits of fossil fuels, the climate crisis that isn’t, sending all the middle class back to being peasants in a feudal society, the hypocrisy of the elites, the despising of the hoi polloi by the “intelligentia”, the anti-west guilt tripping behaviour by the left, the bureaucracy actively opposing the people, how opposing those policies is gaslighted, anti-Israel loathing by the ecodeath culters including holocaust denial, and why popularism is gaining popularity are all covered. Ralph even links AC/DC to the UN.
It is great to hear the idiots called out, confirming that we are not alone. Douglas Murray is another well worth listening to on the same subject. But as Ralph points out, the more the people are treated like turnips, the more likely we are to get the real popularist authoritarian dictators. And Trump / Farage are definitely not them.
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December 15, 2023 8:01am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Worth listening to. I have nothing against rich pricks unless they are hypocrites like King Charles as Brendan O’Neale as his guest say.
  
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  December 15, 2023 10:21am
- Ra Henare
  
  My recommendation. Dont listen to Douglas Murray on the middle east conflict.
  
  He has gone feral on the subject and seems to have lost his usual non emotive reasoning.
  
  I used to follow Douglas, but now I find myself starting to question many of his arguments on subjects other than the middle east.
  
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  December 15, 2023 4:41pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    What aspects do you find “feral” in regards Murray?
    
    I find him to be a razor sharp intellect.
    
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    December 15, 2023 5:16pm
mikenmildagain

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Feliĉan Zamenhof-tagon
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December 15, 2023 8:01am
- Jethrod
  
  Pardon?
  
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  December 15, 2023 8:31am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Esperanto.
    
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    December 15, 2023 8:34am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Jes.
      
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      December 15, 2023 9:10am
      - Jack5
        
        What if NZ had an Esperanto political party for coalitions?
        
        The Woke reckon NZ’s highly multicultural. (See the link below – NZ isn’t in the top hundred countries for multiculturism).
        
        Regardless, tourists from overseas help sustain our economy.
        
        If we must clutter road signs with more languages, more foreign tourists would understand Esperanto than would understand Maori language. (That is a small proportion compared with practically zero.)
        
        Milky for leader of the Nov-Zelando Party!
        
        How multicultural is NZ:
        
        https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-diverse-countries
        
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        December 15, 2023 11:35am
  - Jethrod
    
    Thought it was t1e reo with z and f added
    
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    December 15, 2023 10:14am
- Michael Johnston
  
  And belsop im gibberishol to you.
  
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  December 15, 2023 9:01am
- Local Miller
  
  So do you actually know Esperanto? I’ll up or down tick depending on your reply.
  
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  December 15, 2023 10:00am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Why?
    
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    December 15, 2023 10:05am
  - Jack5
    
    🐄 Milky scias ĉion!
    
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    December 15, 2023 11:42am
- bartybart
  
  tower of babel buddy
  
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  December 15, 2023 10:21am
Scott

I just think the good ladies of Act are doing a great job right now. Take this press release from Act Education Spokesperson, Laura Trask –

“The Auditor General’s annual report on school spending is an eye-opening look at wasteful spending in school administration,” says ACT Education spokesperson Laura Trask. “Taxpayers forking out $6 million a year on wellbeing grants for highly-paid school administrators is concerning enough. Then we learn that the Ministry of Education doles out these payments with instructions to ‘treat yourself’.

Now here’s the money quote – “At that point, it’s taking the piss.” Some might object to her language. But she is not wrong!

Isn’t it good to hear someone call a spade a spade? Someone who speaks like a normal person? As opposed to the weak wokesters who call everything “inappropriate”.

And to add to our joy, this press release from Brooke van Velden –

“Legislation to repeal Fair Pay Agreements passed its third reading in Parliament today, achieving an early milestone in the Government’s 100-day plan. We have moved quickly, as the public expects us to do, to implement one of our 100-day priorities and remove this blunt tool before any Fair Pay Agreements were finalised. As a government we are focussed on boosting productivity, becoming more competitive, and creating a healthy economy that will benefit all New Zealanders.”

Cutting out waste, saving taxpayers money and boosting economic productivity! What a concept!
I just think these Act women are killing it right now. All power to them I say. 😎
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December 15, 2023 8:01am
- peterwn
  
  And a woman from National – Nicola Willis. She will have no trouble working with the women from ACT.
  
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  December 15, 2023 8:47am
- rouppe
  
  Agree except…
  
  Why is it noteworthy that they are women.
  
  Many in this blog were vociferous in condemnation of appointing people based on some identity criteria: gay, trans, women, Maori, ethnic..
  
  I celebrate that Ministers of the Cown are implementing the things they said they would, and are digging into the waste, as they said they would.
  
  I don’t care if they are women, only that they are effective.
  
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  December 15, 2023 9:02am
  - Paulus
    
    Many new Senior Government body appointments are women, and their next Deputy levels, and have been made in New Zealand in the last two plus years.
    Of course they are the best people for these highly paid appointments, as we will see in time.
    Women’s logic and decision making is very different from men, as 1000’s of years will confirm.
    New Zealand is now getting to be a feminised managed Country.
    I will watch with interest
    
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    December 15, 2023 1:33pm
  - Scott
    
    rouppe – Just to clarify I don’t mean to point to the fact they are women to highlight any grievance or injustice or victimhood. I’m doing it because credit where credit is due. They are women in leadership positions and doing well.
    
    On the other side of the coin one can look at women in leadership positions whose grasp of reality and the electorates desire for change is tenuous at best –
    
    “Smokefree: Health Minister Shane Reti could have his doctor’s license revoked, claims Labour’s Ayesha Verrall. Health Minister Shane Reti has refused to say if he has an obligation to protect Māori health under the Treaty. Labour’s Ayesha Verrall says he could have his license to practise revoked. His opposite number from Labour, health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall, stopped short of saying the repeal was a Treaty breach, but told reporters “we were advised that it was important to do this for Te Tiriti”. “Smoking takes an incredible toll on the Māori community so, absolutely, smokefree is part of our Treaty obligations……”
    
    The sense of grievance and victimhood is palpable.
    
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    December 15, 2023 2:08pm
- Swifty
  
  “Treat yourself.”
  
  “It’s on me.”
  
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  December 15, 2023 9:04am
peterwn

In one brave move Nicola Willis has shown that she and her government means business. She (with Cabinet’s backing) has told the Railways that the Government is not going to provide unlimited money for the new ferries and the associated terminals. The main cost blowout is with the terminals which now would have cost more than the ferries themselves! Four unions have condemned her act and called for her resignation – I see that as four votes of confidence for her! Winston Peters is criticised for apparently changing his mind, but the scope and cost is now way beyond what he thought he was agreeing to at the Cabinet table. Also he has been out of the picture for the last three years when the project was running off the rails. The Plan B is pretty apparent – just purchase or lease existing ‘roll on roll off’ ferries as has been done in recent years and as Bluebridge has done. If Railways had merely sought to purchase a couple of rail capable ferries that could use existing port facilities they could have probably got away with it even if the cost benefit did not come out too well.
Is Nicola our ‘Iron Lady’?
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December 15, 2023 8:02am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  The whole point of the project was the assessment that much larger ferries were required to cope with the increased freight volumes. That then led to the need for new terminals.
  I guess it is possible that smaller replacement vessels can cope, but no one has attempted to make that argument.
  
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  December 15, 2023 8:15am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “That then led to the need for new terminals.”
    
    We went through this yesterday. It was not just new “terminals”
    
    It was a new terminal build, a new wharf, landscaped grounds, new private vehicle marshalling area, a new rail yard, and a new road interchange.
    
    They even paid the local Iwi – on both sides of the strait.
    
    In Wellington it was to pay for a “cultural health monitoring plan to bring the life, love and heart back to Kaiwharawhara Stream and estuary around the site of the new ferry terminal.”
    
    It is described as a facility to provide a “world class customer experience.
    
    https://www.interislander.co.nz/interislander-2026/te-whanganui-a-tara-wellington-ferry-terminal-redevelopment#:~:text=The%20redevelopment%20is%20part%20of,of%20the%20ferries%20in%202026.
    
    They decided to build something that was not remotely affordable. That is what sank the project.
    
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    December 15, 2023 8:26am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      I’m yet to see a rational argument for retaining smaller ferries with no upgrade to the port facilities.
      
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      December 15, 2023 9:07am
      - Ehlana
        
        Upgrade to port facilities should be the business of the port, in the same way that upgrade to Auckland Airport is the business of AIAL, not Air New Zealand.
        It may be that some changes need to be made to align those things correctly.
        
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        December 15, 2023 9:16am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Ehlana. You would think that. But what if the port company doesn’t want to invest in such an upgrade. Does the port company even own the present ferry terminal?
        
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        December 15, 2023 9:19am
      - rouppe
        
        Oh I dunno, there are about 1.5 billion rational arguments.
        
        Not to mention the incompetence shown by the board by doubling the cost three times
        
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        December 15, 2023 9:19am
      - Libertarians are right
        
        The point simply is that KiwiRail was overspending as if they had a blank cheque. They were buying all the nice to haves on our dime. You get how that’s not appropriate right?
        
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        December 15, 2023 9:30am
      - leoj
        
        The brilliant Milton Friedman always stumped the left with this one question:
        
        At what cost?
        
        The left is notoriously out to lunch when it comes to economics.
        
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        December 15, 2023 10:33am
      - peterwn
        
        Ehlana
        Shipping companies size their ships to suit available port facilities. They do not purchase large ships and then expect cities to provide suitable port facilities. Cities and their ports will provide facilities if they think it is worthwhile for commerce or to remain competitive with other ports.
        Bluebridge has managed satisfactorily with port facilities on offer. Rail ferry requirements are sufficiently specialised that the ferry operator needs to provide port facilities or at least find someone else to underwrite the provision of port facilities. Railways says ‘someone else’ should provide port facilities. The only ‘someone else’ capable of providing the port facilities for the proposed ferries and the answer will obviously be ‘nix’. Even if some outfit was prepared to borrow the money and build the facilities, railways would be squawking about the ‘tolls’ it would be expected to pay to use the facilities.
        
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        December 15, 2023 10:57am
      - bjools
        
        Here’s one for ya.
        Reinstate ferry services to Littleton using the same size ferries as they have now.
        Routes may be
        POA to Littleton and Charmers
        Wellington to Littleton and Charmers
        It may need 3-4 “new” ferries to run these services, but would be better than replacement large ferries with State of the art terminals on just ONE route.
        
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        December 15, 2023 11:06am
      - Jack5
        
        At least everyone seems to agree that the Cook Strait link is a huge challenge.
        
        One of the seafarers who post on Kiwiblog might tell us how important it is.
        
        A landlubber might consider that overseas ships pick up much of the South Island’s export cargo as they arrive empty and move up the eastern coast.
        
        With much of NZ’s domestic manufacturing in Auckland, how do we get Auckland goods to the quarter to fifth of the population who live south of Cook Strait?
        
        Would there be a more rational use of the freighters coming from Australian last ports of call to NZ to pick up export cargo as they move north from Bluff and Dunedin?
        
        Perhaps South Island consumer demand could shift from Auckland products to Australian products. Then the ships coming near empty to the southern east coast could carry them.
        
        A hundred and fifty years ago, there was substantial traffic between Far South ports of NZ and Melbourne. Passengers travelled on a regular link between Hobart and Bluff, for example.
        
        We have a free trade agreement with Australia. The main complication might be the Australia-NZ dollar rate. Still, the rest of the world broadly sees them as at least mildly linked.
        
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        December 15, 2023 11:58am
      - Ghost
        
        There is already costal shipping going on.
        
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        December 15, 2023 12:17pm
      - kevn
        
        mma…’They’ had 6 years to offer rational solutions. To anything and everything.
        
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        December 15, 2023 12:24pm
    - KiwiSapper
      
      “……. “cultural health monitoring plan to bring the life, love and heart back to Kaiwharawhara Stream and estuary around the site of the new ferry terminal…”
      WHEN is this ongoing maori mumbo jumbo going to be recognised as just that and ignored.
      
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      December 15, 2023 12:08pm
    - Paulus
      
      I understand Picton terminal has already been knocked down for a new terminal, but the new large ferries will have to berth in the next bay round where the Cruise liners go, as they cannot get into current Picton.
      Also two new large ferries cannot pass in the Sounds.
      It is the Rail Unions who are behind this fiasco.
      
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      December 15, 2023 1:38pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        You might care to explain how the rail unions exercise such power over the KiwiRail board.
        
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        December 15, 2023 1:52pm
      - Chris
        
        Yes the Picton terminal is being bowled and rebuilt – which needed to happen anyway. Same for Wellington. The really expensive part is the new seawall, berth and rail marshalling yard in Wellington. To be resilient for 100 years, they say, it had to be raised a metre and the wharf and seawall required massive piles punched in.
        
        As for the ships, they were the cheapest part. They can certainly fit in Picton harbour and there is no reason why two couldn’t pass safely in the sounds except for a couple of narrow areas. The Marlborough harbour master ensures that there is a very good plan for that.
        
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        December 15, 2023 3:42pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        “You might care to explain how the rail unions exercise such power over the KiwiRail board.”
        
        Thuggery Milky. I’ve even known KiwiRail union members boasting about how lucrative their thuggery has been and how dumb other unions are for not being as thuggish.
        
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        December 15, 2023 4:50pm
  - Simon
    
    Lol – case put together by the clowns who came up with the Hamilton to Papakura commuter service, reviewed and signed off by some uneducated amateur iwi. Anything out from the last govt the starting point is it’s garbage.
    
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    December 15, 2023 8:29am
    - rouppe
      
      signed off after being paid off by some uneducated amateur iwi…
      
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      December 15, 2023 9:06am
    - David Garrett
      
      Simon: Is that White Elephant still going? If so how much is the taxpayer forking out for it every week?
      
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      December 15, 2023 9:58am
      - bjools
        
        Is that white elephant, rail tunnel under Auckland, still being paid for?
        
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        December 15, 2023 10:59am
      - Geoff1
        
        KiwiRail Te Huia Operating Costs
        2021 2022 2023 (Nov)
        Labour and Related Costs 238,353 823,642 988,137
        Fuel 1,794 3,537 2,528
        Maintenance Costs 247,593 702,104 663,486
        Hook and Tow 436,599 1,352,787 2,257,731
        Track Access 137,692 357,831 615,804
        Other Expenses 124,166 198,792 307,919
        Total 1,186,197 3,438,693 4,835,604
        No of days 68 167 278
        No of runs 250 600 1009
        Cost per day 17,444 20,591 17,394
        
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        December 15, 2023 11:21am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    We’re the new big rail capable ferry’s and the new big rail capable terminals needed for a real demand from increasing rail freight or an ideological increase in rail freight yet to materialise I wonder . A demand that would present itself as the road links were run into the ground and plans for first world roading were canned in favour of the 19th century technologies of trains and bicycles. Central planning works so well.
    
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    December 15, 2023 8:34am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Billion have been put into upgrading roads for increased traffic volumes and larger trucks. It’s a bit naive to think that growth would affect freight volumes across Cook Strait.
      
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      December 15, 2023 9:05am
      - Local Miller
        
        MMA, did you really mean “It’s a bit naive to think that growth would affect freight volumes across Cook Strait”
        
        I would say exactly the opposite is true, it’s naive to think growth would NOT affect freight volumes! Growth in the north of the south island demands increased goods coming in, and increased produce going out, this is what growth is about. This either has to be trucked down to somewhere like Christchurch by road or rail, then shipped to the north island. Far better to ship directly to the north island from Picton.
        
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        December 15, 2023 10:19am
    - stewmar
      
      Stellaboxer, try proof reading your comment before posting it.
      
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      December 15, 2023 9:55am
      - Stellaboxer
        
        Stewmar why ? Didn’t you get my point or was your comment the only negative you could come up with?
        
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        December 15, 2023 1:49pm
      - Grumpy Silver Top
        
        I blame it on predictive text. I find inappropriate placement of apostrophes really disconcerting. I think Stella meant to open her comment with ‘were’ but the feral apostrophe leapt in and stuffed up my understanding. Ferry’s too – what’s wrong with ferries? I’m getting hot under the collar. Better go. There’s a missing ? too. Sigh.
        
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        December 15, 2023 5:37pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Smaller was mentioned no fewer that 4 times in yesterday’s GD.
    
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    December 15, 2023 8:35am
  - Grunter
    
    Mike – if its such a good idea to spend $3 billion++ because you think there is increased freight demand, then go for it – set up a business that does just that!
    
    Let us know when you launch……..
    
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    December 15, 2023 8:42am
    - Paulus
      
      And let the Unions control Cook Straight again.
      
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      December 15, 2023 1:40pm
  - Local Miller
    
    There’s an excellent rational argument for smaller ferries. The current plan was to replace 3 ferries with 2 larger ferries, to “create more resilience” in the service. But the larger ferries can’t cross Cook Strait much faster than the smaller ones and if one’s taken in for service or breaks down, service is halved rather than only reduced by 1/3.
    So the proposed new ferries would provide less frequent crossings and significantly reduced capacity in the event of a problem.
    Why not progressively replace the existing ferries with 4, slightly larger ferries over time. This increases capacity, frequency of crossings, and in the event one ferry goes in for maintenance there’s only 1/4 drop in capacity. AND there would be no or minimal requirement to upgrade the terminals.
    It’s a no brainer if someone were only prepared to do the basic maths.
    
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    December 15, 2023 10:09am
    - Chris
      
      Yup, bang on. And imagine tipping 3km of traffic onto SH1 in Picton – it’d take ages to clear. I’d rather they ran smaller ships with a chance of keeping their schedule than the larger ones that won’t.
      
      Three ferries running more often makes much more sense from a convenience factor even though the crewing costs will be higher.
      
      A one point NZ rail had four ferries running plus a fast ferry.
      
      I think that three ROPAX (Kaitaki sized) maybe with two able to take rail would be a much better approach. Add in the two Bluebridge ships and we have a good service with lots of redundancy.
      
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      December 15, 2023 3:49pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    Rail into Picton has been known to be problematic for many years. Getting over the elevation immediately South of Picton is the toughest grade in the whole transport chain. This is why back in the 90’s it was proposed to move the ferry terminal to Clifford Bay (Ward). It’s a shorter ferry trip, a shorter rail trip to Chch, and you can operate longer and more efficient trains by avoiding the hill between Picton and Koromiko.
    
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    December 15, 2023 11:44am
    - nova
      
      Clifford Bay makes a lot of sense. In 2013 a cabinet paper estimated the cost at $525 million, with a completion date of 2022. Rejected as it would have required too much government investment! It would be interesting to see the new costings for this project, presumably it would be at least 2 to 3 times the 2013 costing.
      
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      December 15, 2023 1:12pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  I read this morning that a Kiwirail executive was quoted as saying that the ferries may not be able to be cancelled. Kiwirail may need to buy them and then sell them.
  
  I would have paid to sit in on the phone call from the Kiwirail CE to Hyundai Shipyard in Korea.
  
  “Mr Dae, it is Peter Reidy in New Zealand. Yes I’m good thank you. Hey you know those ferries you are about to start on. Well there is a bit of a problem…”
  
  🙂
  
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  December 15, 2023 8:17am
  - cmm
    
    I call bullshit. He’s lying to try to keep the contract alive.
    
    There is no way people make multi-million dollar contracts without escape hatches and clauses wrt cancellation etc.
    
    Well not competent people anyway.
    
    FFS: even a rental agreement for a 1 bedroom flat has those.
    
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    December 15, 2023 8:28am
    - Stellaboxer
      
      The Unions love railways. I wonder why?
      
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      December 15, 2023 8:36am
      - Matt Long
        
        I have a wild guess, if they could get the government to give rail and the ferries a monopoly on freight and a good chunk of passengers by regulation and subsidies, then they could go back to holding New Zealand to ransome by shutting the country down at will.
        
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        December 15, 2023 8:50am
      - Phil
        
        Brawny workers standing respectfully aside as the party bosses sweep by in their gilded carriages, cheering and doffing their caps.
        
        Or perhaps it’s trains inserted into tunnels. Either is a tad creepy.
        
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        December 15, 2023 9:01am
      - Taieri
        
        contracts cannot provide for ‘fines’ or ‘penalties’
        —————-
        
        Shipbuilding contracts can and do.
        
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        December 15, 2023 11:19am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Undoubtedly there will be a cancellation clause. You surely wouldn’t expect that to come cost-free, would you?
      
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      December 15, 2023 9:09am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        None of the last government’s long list of cock ups are cost free. That’s why the economy is tanking.
        
        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/16/new-zealand-gdp-drops-06-in-december-quarter-worse-than-expected
        
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        December 15, 2023 10:09am
      - Taieri
        
        Undoubtedly there will be a cancellation clause.
        ————————-
        
        All shipbuilding contract contain cancellation provisions, but there are hefty fines for that.
        
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        December 15, 2023 10:49am
      - peterwn
        
        Taieri – contracts cannot provide for ‘fines’ or ‘penalties’, the client needs to estimate the cost of default and couch it as ‘liquidated damages’.
        While the contract may contain a cancellation clause that would be for a ‘force majeure’ situation. Cancellation by the client or related party would not really count. It could be that Railways had a client cancellation clause but tenderers would respond by boosting the price. So if the client is pretty sure it wants the product the client is unlikely to want to pay such an extra amount.
        
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        December 15, 2023 11:08am
    - rouppe
      
      Exactly. And I still believe the contract can continue with smaller boats.
      
      Yes the steel is being cut, but it’s not one big sheet for the entire hull
      
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      December 15, 2023 9:23am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Great, I knew someone on Kiwiblog would have shipbuilding expertise.
        
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        December 15, 2023 12:50pm
      - rouppe
        
        Yeah, because when lumber is milled for a house, or bricks made for a house, if that house doesn’t go ahead you have to throw away that lumber or those bricks.
        
        I may not be a ship builder, but to suggest as soon as some steel is produced it can’t be used for any other purpose than that which was initially intended doesn’t pass the sniff test.
        
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        December 15, 2023 2:47pm
      - MCōs
        
        Steel is different to timber.
        It is ordered by the fabricator to lengths of a schedule generated from a computer model.
        If the model is changed the schedule is wrong and the steel is the wrong lengths and profiles
        If anything has been welded to the steel or bolt holes added it may cost more to rectify than reorder.
        
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        December 15, 2023 4:02pm
    - Stellaboxer
      
      CMM “ There is no way people make multi-million dollar contracts without escape hatches and clauses wrt cancellation etc.” Unless your Kiwi Rail .
      
      11 3
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      December 15, 2023 9:39am
  - Vinicius
    
    Was KiwiRail CEO Reidy so naive that he couldn’t figure out that the Labour Government and Robertson as Minister of Finance were completely incompetent? As the election result showed a majority of Kiwi’s knew it.
    
    51 2
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    December 15, 2023 8:28am
    - artemisia
      
      Naïve? Or gleeful?
      
      25 1
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      December 15, 2023 8:35am
      - Vinicius
        
        Part of the reality probably is that KiwiRail have been so used to going to various governments cap in hand for years and getting what they want.
        
        This time Willis was strong enough to give KiwiRail some tough love and say no.
        
        29 1
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        December 15, 2023 8:41am
    - rouppe
      
      Plus the board. Dave McClean is supposed to be a shit hot banker. He ought to be avoiding locked in clauses
      
      12 1
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      December 15, 2023 9:24am
      - septic skeptic
        
        My guess is that “locked in” was seen as a feature not a bug. In other words they could get approval for $x project and then obtain the $10x project if the government bought the sunk cost fallacy.
        It worked for the Auckland rail loop and the Wellington town hall. The same tactic has been attempted with 5+ waters.
        
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        December 15, 2023 11:49am
  - peterwn
    
    I do not think Railways should be commenting in public in this manner. Order cancellation is a sensitive matter and to say in public that NZ may have to meet the full cost of cancellation is not a very good way to start cancellation negotiations. If I were the Minister concerned I would be calling in the Railways Chair and CEO for a good dressing-down.
    
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    December 15, 2023 8:52am
    - Paulus
      
      Calling for their Resignations.
      
      7 0
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      December 15, 2023 1:43pm
- Gravelroad
  
  A man (Left wing Labour supporter- said he was) raved on talkback radio yesterday that the cancelling of the ferries was just so that National could fund their tax cuts for their rich mates.
  Already the ferries fiasco is being spun as National’s fault even though it is just another cock-up by Labour.
  Such is the shallow, opportunistic thinking of Labour supporters.
  
  66 1
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  December 15, 2023 8:31am
  - Flossie
    
    My limited listening to talk back radio makes me think that most the callers are not in the top echelon of the country’s population.
    
    20 1
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    December 15, 2023 9:40am
    - igm
      
      You are correct, as the majority of daytime callers are beneficiaries too tired to get out of bed, while decent taxpayers are out earning a dollar to stay afloat, and being taxed to the max keeping them.
      Also there will be a number of public servants on the phone as they must appease their union masters.
      
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      December 16, 2023 12:21am
  - Paulus
    
    The Media Party are calling it National’s and therefore Luxon’s Fault.
    
    3 0
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    December 15, 2023 1:44pm
- Prince
  
  Oh but the Morning Report ‘journalist’ yesterday thought we could just borrow the extra $B’s needed.
  I wonder if he runs his personal finances along those lines ?
  
  45 1
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  December 15, 2023 8:39am
  - Paul
    
    Journalists have in general low pay, reflected in their general sloppy dress code. MP’s, left leaning, prefer $2000 outfits, Neck Rocks, and glitter.
    Neither really run their personal finances, one group has none, the other group have ‘staff”.
    
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    December 15, 2023 8:44pm
- I remember when
  
  I notice that in the Newshub report one of the users, a truckie, agreed with the cancellation.
  Thought concentration on getting better, bigger vessels of the same type was the right answer.
  Still plenty of opposition from those leading the unions, perhaps a lack of consultation, communication?
  
  9 1
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  December 15, 2023 9:52am
- Handyman
  
  Kiwirail need rail capable ferries to run trains across the strait. They are not responsible for foot passengers or cars. Foot passengers have options to fly or take either of the ferry companies. Cars have options on the KiwiRail ferry or a Bluebridge ferry.
  So… build two new, designed for the route, sister ships capable of using existing shore facilities.
  
  Kiwirail have an arrogance that only they should serve the Cook Strait business. They lost $770 million last year and want another four billion dollars so they can run a reliable service.
  
  Don’t forget KiwiRail will soon be requesting Government give them more than one billion dollars to replace the Auckland switch system because the current system cannot handle the logic of the new rail loop. This is never mentioned as a cost on top of the $6 billion direct cost of the rail tunnel.
  
  15 1
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  December 15, 2023 10:52am
  - Dougal10
    
    That switch thing is one serious feckup and potential passenger train crash situation.
    
    4 0
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    December 15, 2023 7:59pm
artemisia

Demolitions of Te Urewera huts found to be unlawful – judicial review

Director General of DOC Penny Nelson smacked and hard for several unlawful acts.

” … the director-general acted unlawfully by failing to prepare an annual operational plan for the past two years, as required by law. The decision also said the board and DOC acted unlawfully “by purporting to adopt a retrospective annual operational plan authorising the huts’ demolition”. The court described this as “a striking example of reviewable error” on behalf of the director-general”

Sounds like Penny Nelson was also a member of the senior leadership team that authorised ‘totally inappropriate’ expensive leaving gifts for her predecessor.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/504755/demolitions-of-te-urewera-huts-found-to-be-unlawful-judicial-review
47 1
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December 15, 2023 8:03am
- cmm
  
  So they say it is unlawful. So what?
  
  Is anyone going to be prosecuted?
  Are they going to be replaced?
  Who will pay?
  
  46 1
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  December 15, 2023 8:30am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    If they are to be replaced then guess who pays. It won’t be Tuhoe.
    
    24 2
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    December 15, 2023 8:43am
    - cmm
      
      No doubt they will be called in as spiritual consultants to ensure the new huts are placed in the right place etc etc
      
      26 1
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      December 15, 2023 8:46am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Left a bit! Right a bit!
        Spot on bro!
        That will be $20k thanks.
        
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        December 15, 2023 9:35am
      - David Garrett
        
        cmm: Ah yes…and of course “spiritual consultants” do not come cheap…How much koha was required to placate the taniwha who lived in the route of the Waikato expressway? I think he was persuaded to move for a hefty sum…paid of course to his earthly agents…
        
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        December 15, 2023 10:02am
      - imalwaysright
        
        I remember about a decade ago a new road in the Waikato or somewhere had to be blessed by the iwi before anyone could use it.
        
        The blessing involved a fulton hogan water truck driving the length of the road spraying “blessed wai” while the iwi followed on behind in the LTDs.
        
        You have to admire them!
        
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        December 15, 2023 10:36am
    - artemisia
      
      Tuhoe (and DOC) may well find their plan for huge taxpayer funding to rebuild huts is now under a lot of scrutiny. Not to mention fewer paying visitors.
      
      17 0
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      December 15, 2023 8:54am
      - Paulus
        
        Tuhoe do not want visitors anyway as it will interfere with their nefarious activities in the area.
        
        5 0
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        December 15, 2023 1:47pm
    - hmmokrightitis
      
      Unlikely, given it was Tuhoe who set fire to them.
      
      8 0
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      December 15, 2023 10:40am
  - Matt Long
    
    It was obvious all along it was unlawful and that there would be no consequences to Iwi.
    Perhaps at least some people in DoC will get their DCM
    “The High Court has found the DOC director-general, Te Uru Taumatua and Te Urewera Board acted contrary to Te Urewera Act in allowing the huts to be demolished.”
    
    29 2
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    December 15, 2023 8:46am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    An unlawful decision does not necessarily entail a criminal prosecution, nor any other sanction for the decision maker. Judicial review typically finds that a decision maker followed incorrect process in making a decision. It’s quite common for courts to require an organization to reconsider the matter at issue, which could result in the same result, but by a fairer process.
    
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    December 15, 2023 9:17am
    - rangitoto
      
      Lock them up for at least ten years.
      
      12 2
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      December 15, 2023 10:10am
      - Mr Nobody NZ
        
        I propose traditional Maori justice should be implemented. Specifically as these individuals have damaged sites of cultural and spiritual importance to the New Zealand Hunting and Outdoor communities, their Mana.
        
        13 1
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        December 15, 2023 10:28am
      - Matt Long
        
        You want to pickle their heads and cannabalise their bodies Mr Nobody? That sounds a bit drastic.
        
        3 2
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        December 15, 2023 12:07pm
      - Paulus
        
        Many are already locked up anyway !
        
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        December 15, 2023 1:48pm
- trout
  
  The slap over the wrist from the judge re the wanton vandalism of the Urewera huts will be like water of a ducks back for the tribal leaders at Taneatua. To them this was ‘ethnic cleansing’; with no support from dispersed marae. The huts I used were beautiful relics of the past that were a reminder to future generations of the Forest service deer cullers. They served as way points on Park tracks and were used by trampers, hunters, and anglers from all over the world. So Te Urewera was to be shared; yeah right!
  
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  December 15, 2023 9:13am
  - Paul
    
    Finlayson is neck deep in this. Kruger’s Mafia does not represent Tuhoe. Kruger hates the White Man, his own genealogy included. There are already bountiful Pigs and Deer for the taking, Birds will decline as egg eating Opossums again become rampant. Rabbits and Hares, and soon Wallabies, will provide much needed Kai for the Locals. Was that the plan?
    
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    December 15, 2023 8:53pm
Ghost

Useless politician quits

Labour MP and former Te Tai Tokerau and corrections minister Kelvin Davis will quit politics, with his last day being at Waitangi on February 6.

A former teacher, Davis served as a list MP from 2008 to 2011 and again in 2014.

He won the electorate of Te Tai Tokerau in the 2014 election, and held it until 2023, when he lost the seat to Te Pāti Māori candidate Mariameno Kapa-Kingi.

Article
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December 15, 2023 8:04am
- O C Smith
  
  May as well get paid over the holidays.
  
  51 1
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  December 15, 2023 8:09am
  - peterwn
    
    If he had not stood for Parliament in the last election, or failed to get elected he would have received a three months payout anyway. So no objection can be made because he chose to give reasonable prior notice.
    
    10 0
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    December 15, 2023 9:29am
    - rouppe
      
      Will he get paid three months after Waitangi Day, the day of his resignation?
      
      When a tenant gives notice, they are expected to vacate the premises by the time the notice period expires.
      
      When an employee gives notice, they are expected to be gone the day that notice period expires.
      
      Money stops changing hands at that point in both examples.
      
      So if he’s giving 2 months notice of 3 months notice, that sucks
      
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      December 15, 2023 12:19pm
      - Ghost
        
        No, as soon as his seat is declared vacant he no longer gets paid.
        
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        December 15, 2023 12:23pm
      - nova
        
        But by resigning in this way Kelvin has been quite nice to Tracey McLellan, who does get paid for three months post election, effectively a three month paid holiday, and then only has to wait 3 weeks or so before she is back on the payroll. If Kelvin had resigned straight away then we wouldn’t be paying for both of them right now.
        
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        December 15, 2023 1:21pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Yes one of the most useless.
  
  Phil Twyford got nothing done, but at least he had some good intentions. He wanted to give people affordable housing. Pity his policies were utterly misguided. I cannot recall any good intentions coming from Kelvin Davis.
  
  BTW I think this means that Glen Bennett will return to Parliament.
  
  https://www.labour.org.nz/glenbennett2023
  
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  December 15, 2023 8:12am
  - Swifty
    
    There been a big movement evolve over the last 10-15 years, including here in New Zealand, around businesses’ social license.
    
    It is concerned with public acceptance of that business continuing to operate based on the way that business operates. Social license can be lost when a business acts dishonestly, unethically, without regard for stakeholders etc.
    
    What a pity we don’t have a social license for politicians.
    
    If we did, I’d argue for Phil Twyford being at the top of the list for having his removed. He was instrumental in perpetrating one of the greatest public policy disasters in New Zealand’s history. He repeatedly misled us, repeatedly made promises he either couldn’t know whether he could deliver or in fact knew he couldn’t deliver and he dashed the hopes of arguably millions of New Zealanders that home ownership could once again be within their reach.
    
    I can think of few other New Zealand politicians who thoroughly deserve to have been thrown out of office.
    
    As far as I’m concerned the man is a walking, talking fraud. He had his chance and totally blew it.
    
    If it were up to me he would never hold a public office again in his lifetime.
    
    To see him again recently up on public soapboxes telling us all what we should and shouldn’t be doing, or criticising Coalition policies, just makes me retch.
    
    17 0
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    December 15, 2023 9:27am
    - imalwaysright
      
      A group of representatives from the building industry went to see Twyford when he announced Kiwibuild.
      They wanted to give advice from their perspective knowing that it couldn’t be done by government .
      
      Phil basically stuck his chin out and told them he didn’t need to be told how to build a house, after all he was the Minister of Housing …
      
      The rest is history.
      
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      December 15, 2023 10:47am
      - Swifty
        
        Doesn’t surprise me in the least.
        
        Not only was Twyford well, well out of his competence limit he, with shades of Cunliffe, just couldn’t or wouldn’t recognise it and just kept on with his “I will do this and I will do that” speeches.
        
        No humility or self-awareness whatsoever.
        
        And we all know where he ended up. Even his colleagues recognise it too. He’s one of the very few Labour cabinet ministers still in parliament now not only out of the shadow cabinet but was also way, way down the list ranking. If he didn’t win Te Atatu he was gone.
        
        What does that say about his colleagues views of his talents? Look at all the other disaster ministers (Robertson, Davis, Sepuloni, Little, Hipkins etc etc) still held in high regard by caucus.
        
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        December 15, 2023 11:23am
- nova
  
  Tracey McLellan should be next in line, and that means Shanan Halbert only needs one more list MP to resign to get back in…
  
  24 1
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  December 15, 2023 8:13am
  - rockape
    
    The more numties that get back in for Labour the happier I am.
    
    27 1
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    December 15, 2023 8:36am
  - RightFirstTime
    
    Robbo will go early next year, probably before Parliament resumes for 2024.
    
    11 1
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    December 15, 2023 9:44am
    - Grunter
      
      Robertson the next Mayor of Wellington?
      
      They deserve each other and the Leftard Wellington voters will be dumb enough to do it.
      
      13 1
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      December 15, 2023 10:27am
- cmm
  
  “Davis served as a list MP”
  The only person he ever served was himself.
  
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  December 15, 2023 8:32am
- Monty
  
  Im just prompted to look at who else will leave Labour – id guess Robertson doesnt want to be there as week after week his incompetence will be exposed by Nicola Willis, Hipkins stays because there is no one else but will want out, jackson is a loud mouth and has publicly stated he doesn’t want to be there. Parker is a nasty piece of work and wont ever be able to contribute – his dream of wealth envy taxes will never see the light of day. Adrian Rurawhe will bow out politely and will be missed, Rino Tirikatene is a waste of space but likes the best pay cheque he will ever enjoy – – nearly all of these losers have little prospect outside Parliament – – But then the question is who comes in on the list – remembering that the next several places on the list will be those already rejected -Like Shanan Halbert (bully), Glen Bennett of New Plymouth (who?), Vanishi Walters (Who?) and Georgie Dansey of Hamilton who would be the first new Blood in the Labour caucus
  
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  December 15, 2023 8:37am
  - mandk
    
    I agree about Rurawhe. He came across as a decent bloke and he didn’t seem to have any ego while he was Speaker of the House (unlike his predecessor).
    
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    December 15, 2023 10:00am
    - Swifty
      
      Agree.
      
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      December 15, 2023 1:21pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Nah, Robertson is a nasty POS. He will be loving getting to attack Willis constantly. As long as the media is on his side, only the political tragics like us will no how badly he’s damaged our country and he’ll get away with blaming Willis.
    
    15 4
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    December 15, 2023 10:05am
- Matt Long
  
  When David entered parliament he looked like an asset, a successful school principal, apparently intelligent, well groomed, one of the biggest disappointments of the last decade of socialist failure.
  
  29 1
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  December 15, 2023 8:41am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    For a Principal he is not that bright – just saying.
    
    23 2
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    December 15, 2023 8:45am
    - Paul
      
      If Andrew Coster is the Lantern, bright but needs to be carried, Davis is the Candle, not bright, and can’t be moved.
      
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      December 15, 2023 9:01pm
  - Grunter
    
    “…looked like an asset, a successful school principal, apparently intelligent, well-groomed….”
    
    He never looked like any of that – in fact the complete opposite. The worst Corrections Minister we have ever had. He couldn’t even hold a conversation……
    
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    December 15, 2023 8:48am
    - backster
      
      He was well groomed though.
      
      8 0
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      December 15, 2023 9:22am
      - Paul
        
        Davis is staunch. He never seemed to smile.
        
        1 0
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        December 15, 2023 9:02pm
    - Flossie
      
      My opinion of him was always low but when he took the stage at the launch of Labour’s 2020 campaign launch it hit the pits.
      
      11 0
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      December 15, 2023 9:56am
  - jedmo
    
    I think he was up against racist Hone Harawira (” I won’t let my daughters marry pakehas”), in that 2014 election contest; which prospect so unhinged me that I may have made a small donation to Davis’s campaign; but could Harawira have been any worse?
    
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    December 15, 2023 9:54am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      Yeah, actively unhinged is so much worse than lazy unhinged.
      
      9 0
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      December 15, 2023 10:24am
  - stewmar
    
    Matt, I suppose you meant Davis.
    
    7 0
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    December 15, 2023 10:01am
    - Matt Long
      
      Yes, too many distractions this morning, kids home and planning to try out the ferries before they sink.
      
      4 0
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      December 15, 2023 3:35pm
  - David Garrett
    
    Matt: I liked Kelvin in the short time we were in parliament together – a real gentleman who was quite happy to give praise from time to time to those of us on the other side . His mates squirmed in their seats whenever he did so – not done you see, not done. Not if you are a tribal leftie, and especially not done if you are a nasty bastard – as so many of them were.
    
    Let’s be charitable and agree that politics was not a good fit for him.
    
    23 1
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    December 15, 2023 10:07am
- Damocles11
  
  The aftershocks emanating from Labours election defeat continue. Davis was useless, but he was a senior Labour MP and a prominent member of the Maori Caucus. The Labour ‘team’ becomes more anonymous by degrees. Good.
  
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  December 15, 2023 8:42am
  - My-Gumboot
    
    Yeah, sort of begs the question. Is there a Maori Caucus any more?
    No Mahuta
    No Davis
    No Peeni Henare
    Kiri off doing consultancy stuff
    Meka Whaitiri off with the te Pati Maori
    Phheww..Lucky Willie is still there.
    
    8 1
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    December 15, 2023 1:55pm
    - Ghost
      
      Luxton is still there, she could end up being the maori caucus leader…..
      
      5 1
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      December 15, 2023 2:03pm
- nathie
  
  Breaking! Kelvin Davis to go permanently into Labour’s Witless Protection scheme and won’t be seen again! In other words what’s new!
  
  23 1
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  December 15, 2023 8:42am
  - goNZ1
    
    the guilty & failed ex-Ministers start to pull out as they realise the game is up – Davis will be remembered for arbitrarily reducing prison numbers by 30% and surprise surprise! violent crime went out of control. His nasty attack on fellow maori MP in 2022 wont be forgotten either telling Chhour to ”enter the Māori world and stop looking at the world through a “vanilla lens.”
    
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    December 15, 2023 9:54am
  - rockape
    
    I see he is off for a job with indigenous people in Australia. He does realise he won’t be indigenous there just another coloniser.
    
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    December 15, 2023 11:01am
  - Paulus
    
    Did I not hear that Kelvin had a job in Australia to go to with regard to something to do with real Aboriginals !
    
    6 0
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    December 15, 2023 1:54pm
- mandk
  
  I was going to comment that Davis was simply a waste of space, but he was worse than that.
  
  His attitude towards wahine Māori on the other side of the house was disgraceful. He is a primitive who obviously thinks they should sit quietly at the back of meetings or spend their time wiping dishes in the whare kai.
  
  Parliament will be a better place without him.
  
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  December 15, 2023 9:43am
  - lifesgood
    
    It is bewildering that someone so dumb, so poorly educated was a school teacher. It’s quite terrifying that he was considered suitable to teach the next generation. Poor kids, they didn’t have a hope with him in front of them.
    
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    December 15, 2023 12:07pm
- Kiwiguy
  
  Who?
  
  7 0
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  December 15, 2023 9:47am
- G152
  
  Think of the kids his screwed up attitudes damaged
  
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  December 15, 2023 9:48am
artemisia

What were they all thinking? A clear timeline of the Kiwirail ferries cost escalation debacle. Well done Georgina Campbell – in the Herald today.

Has to be serious concern about Kiwirail’s financial capability and why Cabinet kept approving more, and more, and more ….

How KiwiRail’s Cook Strait mega-ferry project unravelled
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December 15, 2023 8:05am
- Vinicius
  
  The is also an article by Tom Hunt in The Post today which also outlines the history of the cost blowouts on this project.
  
  A quote from the article:
  Treasury in June 2021 gave its advice on the iReX project to government ministers in which concerns were raised about a “lack of external quality assurance for KiwiRail’s forecasts” and “a lack of clearly measured benefits”.
  
  https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350131559/cost-blowout-warnings-years-interislander-project-keeled-over (paywalled)
  
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  December 15, 2023 8:19am
- CJames
  
  Here is the link:
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/how-kiwirails-cook-strait-mega-ferry-vision-unravelled/WP2DT7JHONBSTBEEIKOHASAEIY/
  
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  December 15, 2023 8:25am
- Damocles11
  
  Sack the lot of them. KiwiRail has become addicted to vast quantities of taxpayer money to keep it afloat. It has been a white elephant pretty much from the day is was bought back from Toll. Knowing there will always be more hand-outs and bail-outs coming, there has been no incentive to run the outfit as a business along efficient and prudent lines. I believe the CEO’s comments over the week have been blunt and arrogant, he must think he is untouchable. A total clean out is needed.
  
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  December 15, 2023 8:51am
  - David Garrett
    
    Damocles: I wonder if it would be feasible to pull up the tracks and turn the rail corridor into a highway for trucks? Northbound trucks only from midnight to noon, and southbound trucks only from noon to midnight.
    
    Because trains can’t handle steep gradients or bends which are too sharp, the former main trunk route would be an absolute boon for the road transport industry – and leave the roads for cars and local smaller trucks.
    
    Possible, or a pipe dream?
    
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    December 15, 2023 10:15am
    - artemisia
      
      DG, road trains are a thing. One in Australia was more than a km long. And a highway for road trains and trucks would allow autopilot. And be conservative on fuel / cost.
      
      6 1
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      December 15, 2023 10:50am
    - Tom Hunter
      
      Heh! I made that suggestion here back in 2015 during yet another debate on what to do with Kiwirail. In that case DPF’s suggestion was to turn the rail lines into a national cycleway, but I had a different idea:
      
      Utah just legislated robotic trucks to run on its highways and companies from Daimler to Toyota are jumping in. Twenty years from now it may be that people decide to experiment with running such trucks on newly paved-over railway lines, at least in pilot programs, to see if they’re cost-effective. Given the degree to which trucks and the like are needed to work the current rail system at the start and end points I would not be surprised at all if the system as a whole used less resources, even with a stream of robotic trucks on the old rail lines replacing the 2 engines pulling 1500 tons.
      
      Planning for that would be truly be the mark of a 21st century political party. But I suspect we’ll never emerge from the 19th century of world of two fixed steel rails.
      
      Instead of twenty years in the future, how about Kiwirail run such a pilot program right now: more heavy trucks off public roads so less damage to them, as well being able to run in controlled corridors.
      
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      December 15, 2023 12:09pm
    - Matt Long
      
      Easy to create switch points for trucks running on rubber wheels, the bridges, viaducts, tunnels and causeways could pose a problem.
      
      5 1
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      December 15, 2023 12:13pm
    - Paul
      
      The Viaducts could be a problem. Anyway, we have roads. Not Japanese expressway type connecting highways, all tolled, but stuck-on gravel shit which is the only technology in New Zealand which is stuck in the ’30s. And has made Fulton Hogan billionaires!
      
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      December 15, 2023 9:11pm
- Grunter
  
  Just another example of why governments should NOT OWN STUFF. Name one sector that the government operates in (any government anywhere) that actually works efficiently?
  
  There are zero examples. They wreck anything they touch.
  
  I’m hoping that Willis has inherited a massive financial siht storm bigger than we can imagine and is forced to sell a stack of assets/SOE’s
  – Landcorp (or as the woke now call it ‘Pamu’). Why is the government in farming???!!
  – Air NZ
  – Electricity companies- all of them including Transpower
  – Kiwi Rail
  – TVNZ & RNZ – maybe Stuff will pay $1???
  – NZ Post
  – Met Service – Global Boiling alarmists!
  – AgResearch
  – Christchurch Airport (25%
  – Dunedin Airport (50%)
  – Any other airport….?
  – A whole bunch of research orgs such as DSIR or whatever they are now called.
  
  There are probably others that I’ve missed??
  
  Try justifying why any of the above can not be privatised or simply closed down and allow the free market to operate (eg Radio NZ).
  
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  December 15, 2023 10:52am
  - thirteenstars
    
    “I’m hoping that Willis has inherited a massive financial siht storm bigger than we can imagine and is forced to sell a stack of assets…”
    
    Oh, I’d love to see it but Willis is not a wolf in sheep’s clothing like Roger Douglas or even a straight shooter like Ruth Richardson.
    
    But there’s a time coming, and that right soon, where an opportunistic government could plead such a force majeure and properly right the ship.
    
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    December 15, 2023 12:50pm
- Steve Todd
  
  Well done Georgina Campbell – in the Herald today.
  
  Good to see Georgina Campbell getting a bit of deserved credit. Well done, artemisia.
  
  Isn’t it funny how Georgina Campbell is praised when she writes something that the right-wing Kiwiblog commenters like, but is damned when she doesn’t.
  
  For context, see, for example, https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2023/12/if_it_affects_your_public_job_then_it_is_a_matter_of_public_interest.html/comment-page-1#comment-3478915.
  
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  December 15, 2023 1:38pm
G152

Well so the world wants to stop all manner of energy sources because.
So they have a geat get together the masters and the minions all up to being seen and televised.
I have a great energy saving idea.
How about these geniuses run a web site and have online talkie talkie sessions????
Think of the energy that they would save and the media space that wouldn’t be wasted
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December 15, 2023 8:07am
Maggie Pie

Yet another of Labor’s negative legacies……

Third-World-Diseases coming across our borders.

This is what our Doctors and Nurses are now facing on a regular basis 🙁

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/nz-s-first-rabies-case-treated-at-whangarei-hospital/
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December 15, 2023 8:18am
- CJames
  
  It would help is you actually read the story before commenting. He got bitten by a rabid dog in the Philippines seven months before, went to hospital from a ship on which he was crew and human to human transmission is very rare.
  
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  December 15, 2023 8:27am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    While human to human transmission of RABIES may well be rare…..it can nevertheless happen. There are numerous well documented cases worldwide.
    
    20 4
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    December 15, 2023 8:38am
    - CJames
      
      He got it seven months before. Are you going to make all NZers who have been anywhere overseas in the last seven months stay in isolation until they are clear? Remember NZ is about the only country that doesn’t have rabies.
      
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      December 15, 2023 8:48am
      - sirknz
        
        That policy was endorsed by Labour and their adoring fans until fairly recently.
        
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        December 15, 2023 10:11am
      - David Garrett
        
        CJames: No rabies up here in the Magic Kingdom. No snakes either, very rare for a tropical country.
        
        The explanation is, of course, that God is a Tongan!
        
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        December 15, 2023 10:17am
      - Jack5
        
        A map of rabies-free countries in 2023:
        
        https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/rabies-free-countries
        
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        December 15, 2023 8:28pm
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  Read the article, and then tell us what policy change would have prevented this case.
  
  8 2
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  December 15, 2023 8:30am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    The change happened on the 14th October, 2023.
    Much to some peoples chagrin it would seem.
    
    13 2
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    December 15, 2023 8:43am
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      Yes, we have a new Government. Please explain what they could do, let alone anything they’re actually going to do, to prevent a case like this from happening again.
      
      There is enough rock-solid evidence to support that proposition that Labour was an idiotic, incompetent government that did many unforgivably stupid things. Providing a distraction from that evidence with a weak and easily rebuttable case helps only – Labour.
      
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      December 15, 2023 9:26am
- cmm
  
  This is pretty low down as a third world risk to NZ medical staff. I’d be far more worried about TB, AIDS and other shitholistan delights.
  
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  December 15, 2023 9:24am
  - Mr Nobody NZ
    
    Can we include the disease of Islam?
    
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    December 15, 2023 10:32am
oldpark

Then we have the so called Climate Change Czar John Kerry the clown who keeps giving,
he travels the World in a massive Plane telling Nations that that is the only way he can travel as he brain washes them on emission saving .
Interesting he flew to Dubai in his big jet . next was Kamala Harris in her big Jet .
Yet they have the gall and propaganda to excuse themselves for so much hypocrisy .Telling World Nations to cut emissions pronto .
Wonder how the mentioned clowns would travel if
Aero plane fuel was no more. Includes the rest of the gang of thousands at Dubai for Bullshit 28 emission saving exercise.
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December 15, 2023 8:26am
- Matt Long
  
  Apparently on of the big US manufacturers of private jets has said that without the green loon conferences the company would no longer exist.
  
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  December 15, 2023 8:37am
- Burtland
  
  seems NZ promised to triple our renewables by 2030 – 7 years – at COP28
  
  if people think the ferries are expensive, then this is at another level
  
  If the new solar farms in Northland are anything to go by, then tripling our annual 363PJ renewable generation base will cost around $175B to build (Lodestone cost $240M/PJ). Wind turbines arent much better, Waipipi $200M/PJ.
  
  Solar farms seem to be the darling investment of the high net-worth individuals. Hundreds will be needed if 3x is the target.
  
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  December 15, 2023 9:38am
  - sirknz
    
    Solar panels make the landscape look so natural don’t they…
    
    15 0
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    December 15, 2023 10:14am
  - Grunter
    
    And the money comes from….?
    1. Private enterprises? Nah no ROI
    2. Increase taxes? Ha! Yeah right.
    3. Increase Govt Debt – it’s worked so far, what could possibly go wrong?
    
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    December 15, 2023 10:57am
  - rangitoto
    
    NZ is already about 40% renewable (about 85% renewable for electric power) . What would be the point of tripling that to 120% renewable. Doesn’t make any sense.
    
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    December 15, 2023 2:41pm
    - Burtland
      
      2022 renewable figure is 30%
      
      https://www.mbie.govt.nz/dmsdocument/27344-energy-in-new-zealand-2023-pdf
      
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      December 15, 2023 5:05pm
- G152
  
  John Kerry the man who can sail MTBs overland into other waterways
  
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  December 15, 2023 9:50am
  - Jack5
    
    Kerry in the Vietnam War commanded a US Navy “Swift boat”. These 15m boats didn’t have torpedo launchers, so weren’t MTBs.
    
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    December 15, 2023 8:38pm
- goNZ1
  
  having Kopp28 hosted by Dubai, which was and is financed by oil and gas, is about as hilarious and holding a Global Gay Pride jamboree in Tehran!
  
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  December 15, 2023 9:59am
  - David Garrett
    
    goNZ: Indeed…surely some follower of the Climate Change religion behind this talkfest must have thought the choice of venue was a touch…ironic??
    
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    December 15, 2023 10:21am
  - Burtland
    
    COP29 is being held in Azerbaijan – seems countries with oil income are the only ones that can afford to host all the greenies.
    
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    December 15, 2023 11:19am
Matt Long

Groundswell’s latest email informs us that the Blue/Greens are enamoured with David Parker’s Freshwater Regulations.
“Late this afternoon, we got dropped a bombshell: just a fortnight into the new Government, they’ve already broken the most important election promise to farmers!”
“Make no mistake, the National Policy Statement on Freshwater Management was the most damaging, uneconomic, and unworkable regulation introduced under the last Government.”
“It is difficult to exaggerate the costs and extremity of Parker’s framework – and the need for it to be banished to history. A joint report by Landcare Research and NIWA released last week shows that the Parker fresh water standards are so high, they aren’t even achievable in our national parks! 🤦”
“You’d think such a report would have caused officials to go and have a re-think? But the Ministry for the Environment’s response to the report was to point out that the fresh water framework and ‘bottom lines’ do not apply to national parks, so councils need not worry. Seriously, you could not make this up!”
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December 15, 2023 8:27am
- Matt Long
  
  The government has proposed to pause these regulations until they are fully captured by MfE officials and regional council’s are to continue at a slower pace with implementation of freshwater plans.
  In the case of Northland the cost in the billions to the region will make the ferries look like small change.
  “The work and proposed regulations are enormous. For example, in Northland, the draft 360 page plan is anything but simple. One of the key policies is that farmers who have land on greater than 25 degree slope will need to develop new “Erosion Control Plans”. These will need to be prepared by qualified planners for “livestock exclusions, land retirement, remedial planting, stocking rate reductions” measures.
  
  To put that in perspective: land in Northland that is 25 degrees or more is 40% of Northland’s existing farmland! To say that it will make many farms uneconomic is an understatement…”
  In my own case about half of my productive land will be effectively confiscated under the new rules.
  
  23 2
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  December 15, 2023 8:34am
  - Dudley Quaffquaff
    
    If there are Northlanders farming on land with a slope of 25 degrees or more and they don’t already have anti-erosion measures in place, then they deserve to go out of business, preferably before their irresponsibility further endangers everybody downhill from them
    
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    December 15, 2023 10:16am
    - Matt Long
      
      Say you don’t understand the situation without saying you don’t understand the situation.
      
      7 2
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      December 15, 2023 12:17pm
      - Dudley Quaffquaff
        
        If you don’t want or need sympathy or understanding from people who don’t know much or anything about farming, by all means throw shade rather than explain what is so unreasonable about expecting farmers to take measures to prevent erosion on steeply sloping land that they’re responsible for.
        
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        December 15, 2023 5:45pm
      - Matt Long
        
        “they deserve to go out of business, preferably before their irresponsibility further endangers everybody downhill from them.”
        Really if you want a conversation you don’t start by making insulting comments like that.
        Most of the higher slops are not high erosion land and where they are there are already erosion control plans in place or in train.
        The incoming rules are to ban livestock from slopes over 35 degrees and to require a resource consent to farm 25 to 35 degrees. This will do little to prevent erosion as can be seen by the severe erosion in the Mt Parahaki Reserve regenerating bush area.
        There are very few, if any, areas in Northland where erosion poses a risk to downstream properties, like happens around the East Coast, and forestry trash is mostly a nuisance rather than a ecological disaster.
        
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        December 15, 2023 7:40pm
    - Paul
      
      Anti-erosion measures? Are you insane? Tell me one that existed before Humans!
      
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      December 15, 2023 9:52pm
kevn

Matt… ‘Own nothing, eat bugs and be happy’ as Maggie often quotes. WEF mantra.
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December 15, 2023 8:37am
Benedict Yu

100 academics at the University of Auckland complain that their workplace is “unsafe”.

““As racist, transphobic, antisemitic and Islamophobic hate has been rising globally, we are particularly concerned for marginalised groups including Māori, Pacific, transgender and non-binary colleagues.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/more-than-100-university-of-auckland-academics-sign-letter-complaining-of-unsafe-workplace/WKMJEFQSHFD3BC4BGXOI5XFYXY/

How pathetic 🙁 They should watch some videos of children in the Congo mining Cobalt for their EVs. That is an “unsafe workplace” 🙁

“Special report : Inside the Congo cobalt mines that exploit children”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcJ8me22NVs&ab_channel=SkyNews
56 2
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December 15, 2023 8:38am
- Cassandra
  
  Pathetic. Equating antisemitism, for example, with whatever Maoris in NZ experience. Racism n NZ is non existent compared to elsewhere. Unless you’re one of these rabid Maori nationalists.
  
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  December 15, 2023 8:51am
- cmm
  
  …or get sent off to war like their grandfathers
  … or work in the construction or logging industries
  …
  Unsafe – bah!
  
  25 1
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  December 15, 2023 8:51am
- kowtow
  
  or how safe Israeli women are from Hamas.
  
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  December 15, 2023 8:55am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Or Palestinian women from “surgical” Israeli missile strikes.
    Is surgical strike a piss take. Does it mean that everyone in a 100m radius will need a surgeon?
    
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    December 15, 2023 12:47pm
    - kowtow
      
      If they do need a surgeon they’ll have to get past the hordes of Hamas hiding in the hospitals .
      
      Innit.
      
      5 2
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      December 15, 2023 1:50pm
- Damocles11
  
  Perhaps if Arabs and Jews would live peacefully with each other there would be less of this so-called ‘Islamophobia’ and ‘Antisemitism’. One group (the ‘religion of peace’) have a penchant for Jihad (Holy War). The pathetic self-absorbed ‘academics’ are at the forefront of creating, highlighting, and promoting division and societal discord as a part of their endless war on the society & system they hate. Pretending to be afraid is all part of the act.
  
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  December 15, 2023 8:59am
- graham
  
  “More than 100 University of Auckland academics sign letter complaining of unsafe workplace”
  
  I believe that under the Health and Safety at Work Act, these people have the right to stop working if they believe the workplace is unhealthy or unsafe.
  
  So go on, folks – if you genuinely believe that your workplace is ‘unsafe’, stop working. Walk out and don’t return until you are satisfied that the workplace has been made safe again. You have the right, so go ahead and do it.
  
  Waiting …
  
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  December 15, 2023 9:28am
  - David Garrett
    
    graham: Imagine the bomber boys of WW II being told, on their return from a mission over Germany with two crew dead or seriously injured on board, that one day a university would be considered an “unsafe workplace” because some person in it might just say some unkind things to some others.
    
    Just think about that for a moment…55,000 men who served in Bomber Command – including 1800 New Zealanders – never came home. A Lancaster bomber in 1943 was a fucking unsafe workplace. Describing a university as such is beyond ludicrous, and a debasement of the word “unsafe”
    
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    December 15, 2023 10:28am
    - Mr Nobody NZ
      
      In fairness the Bomber Boys would have been surprised at the suggestion that a job in industries like Forestry were dangerous work places.
      
      Unfortunately we are paying the price of coddling individuals who seems incapable of existing outside an environment wrapped in bubble wrap.
      
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      December 15, 2023 10:37am
    - hmmokrightitis
      
      Correct indeed DG. One of my great uncles was a Wellington pilot, shot down and killed during a Berlin raid – he was 22. How jolly unsafe and thoughtless of Churchill to send them against tyranny.
      
      As we have seen with the Auckland Museum fiasco, the children still seem to think they are in charge. And in some places, they are, but I suspect that tide is starting to turn.
      
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      December 15, 2023 10:48am
      - sungsamning
        
        A maternal uncle drove a gasoline tanker in Italy during WW2. Definitely not too safe.
        
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        December 15, 2023 2:44pm
      - Jack5
        
        The source linked to here says the death rate in RAF Bomber Command crews in World War 2 was 44.2 per cent!
        
        https://medium.com/ww2-air-war-in-europe/ww2-facts-1-raf-bomber-command-casualty-rate-6722f416aa96
        
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        December 15, 2023 8:48pm
    - Tom Hunter
      
      @David
      
      You may have already heard this, RAF Bomber crew flight talk
      
      It’s from several missions and it almost sounds like a parody of 1950’s British war movies, but no, this was how they talked and there’s some serious “grace under pressure” there. The part toward the end is pretty exciting!!!
      
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      December 15, 2023 11:54am
      - Ipanema69
        
        God rest their brave souls
        
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        December 15, 2023 12:49pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Tom: thanks for that…althought I know a great deal about Bomber Command’s war, I still shake my head in wonderment when I reflect on the fact that the average age of a Lancaster captain was 22…1,800 young New Zealand men who never got to be fathers, fathers of the bride, or grandfathers., two out of three of which I have been lucky enough to experience..RIP all of those magnificent boys…
        
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        December 15, 2023 7:47pm
    - Che Guava
      
      If we stopped to consider reality for 5 minutes rather than hanging on to the fairy tales that support the current status quo, the “bomber boys of WW II” would have been much better served shaking hands with their fellow Europeans, the Germans, and uniting to fight against the real source of antagonism that operated in the shadows then as much as it does now, and fundamentally hated both of them. Imagine living in the quasi dystopian degeneracy that is 2023 and still believing that the outcome of WW II was for the best, particularly with 80 years of hindsight.
      
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      December 15, 2023 12:18pm
      - thirteenstars
        
        I’m tumescent with anticipation so please, oh, please, what is “the real source of antagonism that operated in the shadows then as much as it does now, and fundamentally hated both of them”?
        
        I might just be able to guess but I’d hate to blow my load in such a public place. Standing by…
        
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        December 15, 2023 1:07pm
      - Che Guava
        
        What a bizarre comment. But you know: the Globalists, the Bankers, the Media, the Entertainment Industry, etc. Those guys.
        
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        December 15, 2023 2:43pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Ah, the ‘globalists’. Best to just say what you mean.
        
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        December 15, 2023 3:15pm
      - Che Guava
        
        mike, I mean just what I say and nothing more. For instance, when I use the word ‘Globalist,’ I intend it as a noun, any referents of which being completely undifferentiated and without any common characteristic that would identify them in any concrete way whatsoever.
        
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        December 15, 2023 3:48pm
      - Tom Hunter
        
        Germany didn’t know that the dislike of “The Real Source Of Antagonism” (TRSOA) also existed in France, Britain, Poland and other European nations. In fact they thought that TRSOA controlled them too.
        
        Bit difficult to shake hands and unite with people who are attacking you because they think you’re the problem.
        
        Or maybe the Germans were just so keen on invading and conquering Poland and France for traditional empire-building reasons that uniting to fight TRSOA never occurred to them – aided by the fact that they didn’t have a much higher opinion of the Poles and other such untermenschen than they did of TRSOA anyway.
        
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        December 15, 2023 3:49pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Go fuck yourself idiot
        
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        December 15, 2023 7:48pm
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      I’ve thought of using the very same example of what constitutes a genuinely dangerous work environment. I remember a story about the remains of a rear gunner being hosed out of the remains of the turret.
      
      Down-voters: I’d love to hear your rationale.
      
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      December 15, 2023 5:23pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Pope: A rear gunner’s remains being hosed out of his turret was not just “a story”… it happened often, because the ME 109’s had 20mm cannon and not the .303’s the poor bastards in the rear turret had to combat them.
        
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        December 15, 2023 7:50pm
  - rockape
    
    Unsafe workplaces should be closed down. Let’s do it !
    
    12 0
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    December 15, 2023 10:40am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Don’t the academics run the uni?
    Who do they consider the protagonists to be? Themselves ?
    Maybe the students , who are paying a lot of money to be there, are complaining about being indoctrinated, rather than educated, by the same “academics”. Maybe the academics don’t like being held to account .
    
    This smacks of the mentality of the protests earlier in the week by people who want the government to tell them to stop smoking.
    
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    December 15, 2023 12:57pm
- I remember when
  
  Is the timing of the University of Auckland ‘unsafe’ workplace just a little bit coincidental?
  Could the outcome of an ‘unsafe’ workplace trial taking place at present be a target they want to influence?
  
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  December 15, 2023 10:20am
- Bobba Fret
  
  If the workplace is so bad, why do they all stay working there?
  
  14 0
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  December 15, 2023 11:12am
- Rich Prick
  
  The only workplace hazard those luvvies face is being struck in the head by a principled argument. But given the workplace is a University, the risk of that happening is negligible.
  
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  December 15, 2023 11:34am
- Paulus
  
  Ok as long as they have Red Hair to compliment their comments and aspirations.
  
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  December 15, 2023 2:00pm
- My-Gumboot
  
  Yeah, these are supposed to be the brightest and smartest. But can’t figure our a way to argue, rationalise or remove themselves from situations they they are uncomfortable in.
  Like many politicians, have little self awareness or real world sense.
  
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  December 15, 2023 2:02pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  If they can sign a letter of protest then they can sign a letter of resignation.
  
  Just saying.
  
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  December 15, 2023 11:10pm
Swifty

Here is an astounding example of how so poorly we’ve been led over the last six years.

Contrast this talk between Roger Partridge and Oliver Hartwich, both of the New Zealand Iniriative on the just repealed Fair Pay Agreements:

https://www.nzinitiative.org.nz/reports-and-media/podcasts/podcast-roger-partridge-and-oliver-hartwich-on-fairpay-agreements/

With this piece from our supposed Equal Opportunities Commissioner Karanina Sumeo:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/he-whakamana-tangata-a-life-of-dignity-for-all-karanina-sumeo-equal-employment-opportunities-commissioner/67HQGVVPHNDATJIGEUBRUGJZG4/

One is a sober, reasoned discussion of the current state of play, likely impacts of the FPAs, the unfairnesses, the iniquities, the implications and consequences, the problems and concerns, the unresolved issues etc

The other is just an emotional call to action, making not one effort to discuss the inadequacies of the FPAs, the problems, the perversions, the unfairnesses, the extortionate nature of it all, the negative consequences and implications and of course the absolutely false assumptions that employers are sitting in great pots of money all around the country.

It’s just appalling. This just totally reveals to us all not only how utterly naive and simplistic Karanina Sumeo’s views are bit that she is unfit to hold her office if she is prepared to throw her weight behind such so clearly flawed Labour policies.

If that woman was really concerned about equal opportunities in New Zealand she should have been endlessly and remorselessly hammering Labour over the last six years about the appalling state of our primary and secondary education state monopoly – which has 40% of our school leavers with a reading and maths age of 12 years or below. What sort of start in life is that? Think those school leavers have equal opportunities in life with their peers with that sort of education?

But no, we haven’t heard a peep from our Equal Opportunities Commissioner about that. I wonder why?
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December 15, 2023 8:49am
- Paulus
  
  Heard Hardwich this morning on free radio – no wonder the Media Party will not have anything to do with him.
  I thought he gave the points he wanted to very well without interruption.
  
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  December 15, 2023 2:03pm
Simon

Luxon eh? Terrible opposition leader but very solid PM to date. Quite remarkable turnaround. Maybe it’s the exposure to the craziness to the left of National? or in coalition with 2 other sound parties?

Probably at least Luxon during his private sector days was surrounded by competent people who didn’t hate the customers or shareholders. Polar opposite of what he is exposed to now by those to National’s left.
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December 15, 2023 8:54am
Maggie Pie

ECONOMICS 101

How will 129,000 more people in NZ affect house prices next year?

😀 😀 😀
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December 15, 2023 8:55am
- Damocles11
  
  Are you Tony Alexander in disguise?
  
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  December 15, 2023 8:59am
- Cinematic
  
  Slightly helpful but most aren’t buyers any time soon.
  
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  December 15, 2023 9:07am
  - Grunter
    
    Rent or buy – they all still need a house/room = additional demand
    
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    December 15, 2023 11:10am
    - kowtow
      
      Sleep outs , garages , spare bedrooms ( if any ) former motels etc
      
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      December 15, 2023 1:48pm
- Paul
  
  Apart from the odd headline, the underbelly of New Zealand has thrived and grown under the last Labour Government. I can buy 15 different brands of Chinese cigarettes under $20 a packet. Chinese Nationals paid cash below minimum wage are building crappy Brown/White/Grey semidetached units across Auckland. The underground economy with Chinese Developers is Huge. All transactions are in Mandarin. We are being overtaken by a little understood diaspora that outperforms all New Zealanders economically. If China has become our marketplace for goods, so has our labor market become dependent on Chinese Labour, essentially without controls. This is Hipkin’s legacy, but the rot began under the Sinophile Key!
  
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  December 15, 2023 10:21pm
Observant Octagenarian

Commentary (Predictions for 2024) in ‘The Australian’ website (Interestingly an excellent, non-paywalled newspaper site) from “The Mocker’:
June: Alumni of the International Union of Socialist Youth convene for a three-day conference in a luxury Lausanne resort, on the shores of Lake Geneva, Switzerland.
“We must remain true to ourselves if we are to realise worldwide social justice in our lifetime,” says keynote speaker and former IUSY president Dame Jacinda Ardern.
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December 15, 2023 9:11am
- Ehlana
  
  Why would socialists convene at a luxury resort? Wouldn’t that be to aid and abet the exploitation of the workers by the greedy corporates? Or will they be doing their own cooking and cleaning and giving the exploited ones a paid holiday?
  
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  December 15, 2023 10:53am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Why would socialists convene at a luxury resort?
    
    Because these are the top piggies….and deserve lots of goodies.
    
    Lesser beasts will do the cooking and cleaning.
    
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    December 15, 2023 1:04pm
    - Paulus
      
      Cop29 is in Azerbaijan next time.
      Fortunately it is very rich in minerals and of course Oil.
      So they will build more 5 star hotels, import the best cooks and food, as usual, for at least 100,000 people like the one just finished.
      The Escort “people” will flock there again.
      Its very big business which agrees virtually nothing but spending by others.
      
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      December 15, 2023 2:13pm
    - gravedodger
      
      Absolutely Maggy W more people should read Animal Farm and 1984.
      
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      December 15, 2023 2:15pm
- cmm
  
  Dame Comrade Doctor Jacinda Ardern, please
  
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  December 15, 2023 2:40pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/write-to-te-papa-and-tell-them-to-start-being-honest/
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December 15, 2023 9:29am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Are they still banging on about the ‘Littlewood’ draft?
  
  3 23
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  December 15, 2023 9:55am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yes. Its is actually James Busby’s. It was given to Henry Littlewood (Lawyer) for safe keeping. The one in Te Papa is the James Freeman rogue version with “forestry and fisheries” added.
    The true Treaty is the one in Maori.
    Have a look at http://www.stopcogovernance Mike. You may find the truth interesting. Today and yesterday’s posts are good. Hit the ‘blog’ tab.
    
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    December 15, 2023 10:30am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I’ll add to that. The Littlewood Draft was found by relatives of Henry Littlewood in Pukekohe in 1989. The then Govt got hold of it and because it did not contain “forestry and fisheries” it was put away in Archives NZ, never to be seen again. It is not there. Destroyed more than likely.
      But there are copies.
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVgY03s6Tqc
      The first 10 minutes is the interesting bit.
      
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      December 15, 2023 10:44am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      For those interested in the ‘Littlewood Treaty’ canard, here is the story:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Littlewood_Treaty_Document
      
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      December 15, 2023 12:59pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Milky as you know Wikipedia is a steaming pile of garbage run by anonymous woke and quasi-marxist activists and other nefarious entities.
        
        Is that the best you’ve got?
        
        7 4
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        December 15, 2023 1:19pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        You are welcome to correct any information in that article.
        
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        December 15, 2023 1:33pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Only half of the story is there. No mention of the then Govt or David Lange being part of the hiding the document in Archives NZ. No mention of “forestry and fisheries” that are now in the Waitangi Tribunal James Freeman version.
        Lies by omission? Ardern was a master at that!
        
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        December 15, 2023 2:06pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        The idea that an historical document is ‘hidden’, by storing in in the national archives is ludicrous.
        
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        December 15, 2023 2:15pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Mike @ 2.15,
        So if it is not in Archives NZ, where is it? Did Lange take it to his grave?
        Have a look at the website and the link I sent you Mike. I don’t expect you to day you got it wrong (never happen)
        You just may learn some truth
        
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        December 15, 2023 3:38pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        It is in national archives. that’s where we store many documents of historical interest.
        Occasional Kiwiblog commenter Scott Hamilton discusses it here:
        https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/28-11-2017/treaty-of-waitangi-denialism-a-long-dark-and-absurd-history
        
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        December 15, 2023 3:49pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Milky: “You are welcome to correct any information in that article.”
        
        Not at all Milky. As you know Wikipedia is controlled by anonymous woke-narrative-pushing gatekeepers. It’s a quasi-marxist propaganda project, as you well know.
        
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        December 15, 2023 4:35pm
      - Mike
        
        You could have just agreed the article was factual.
        
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        December 15, 2023 6:11pm
  - Paul
    
    “Are they still banging on”.
    If debate is no longer necessary, why are you debating the same issue?
    Seems you are banging on when you question the very banging on as a valid talking point?
    Or are you confused?
    
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    December 15, 2023 10:42pm
- Grunter
  
  We have an emotional, UNRESOLVABLE problem in this country.
  
  Too many versions and interpretations of a Treaty signed 163 years ago by some Poms and a bunch of Stone Age tribes that had 600 years of war history. (what could ever go wrong…?)
  
  Now add in a new era of woke Leftardation where up is down, right is wrong, and a cold day is global boiling……..
  
  We will never agree on what the hell the ToW means in NZ 2023. Even if we have a referendum the Leftards will wet their pants and Maori separatists will start firing muskets again.
  
  Racism ALWAYS breaks a nation. NZ will be no different. I can not see any rational way through this as the 2 sides are already too far apart. Those of us who want a peaceful, liberal, free market society vs a bunch of Maori separatists with Leftaration.
  
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  December 15, 2023 11:30am
  - Jack5
    
    Grunter’s …Racism ALWAYS breaks a nation …
    
    I’m not sure about that, Grunter.
    
    Some say Japan is racist towards its ethnic-Korean minority. Japan had flourished economically. South Koreans society itself is accused by some of being racist.
    
    Malaysia has racism, too. For example, up to 90 per cent of places in universities are reserved for ethnic Malays. Malaysia’s economy has been growing, and there is even investment in NZ.
    
    India is ranked by some as one of the world’s most racist countries (link below). India is progressing well economically.
    
    China, the world’s largest economy, has its treatment of minority Uighurs and of Tibetans.
    
    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-racist-countries
    
    AND, in South Korea:
    
    https://thediplomat.com/2020/08/what-a-blackface-photo-says-about-south-koreas-racism-problem/
    
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    December 15, 2023 1:37pm
    - Paulus
      
      But Japan has the third highest economy in the world with no real immigration.
      
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      December 15, 2023 2:14pm
      - Jack5
        
        That’s true, Paulus, and ethnic Koreans number only about 400,000 among about 123 million citizens.
        
        An interesting immigration to Japan has been of about 230,000 Brazilians of Japanese descent. Many have returned to Brazil.
        
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        December 15, 2023 2:38pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    There is only one Treaty – the one in Maori. The others are versions or as in The Waitangi Tribunal, a rouge version.
    Have a look at the Youtube link I sent to Mike.
    Racism breaks a nation, true. This is what the Elite Maori want, for the Coup that was started in 1975.
    I have been to one of the Stop Co-Governance meetings, at Orewa. The behaviour of the activists was shocking!
    
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    December 15, 2023 3:44pm
I remember when

Is David Letele the only ‘expert’ available to the news network at this time of the year.
No matter what the problem, there is David offering a possible answer.
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December 15, 2023 9:37am
- Jethrod
  
  He is becoming more and more political. Very apparent over the last 6 months
  
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  December 15, 2023 10:26am
plc

NZTA are still sending out their communications under the Waka Kotahi brand.

Just received a rego reminder with Maori name front and centre.

It must be awfully hard to make the necessary changes to their electronic communications.

My thoughts and prayers are with them at this difficult time.
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December 15, 2023 9:38am
- greybeard
  
  Are those thoughts and prayers in English ?
  
  6 1
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  December 15, 2023 10:19am
  - MCōs
    
    Prayers might be in Latin
    
    6 1
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    December 15, 2023 1:45pm
- Don Beckett
  
  Be careful about e-mails from NZTA ( First Canoe) there is a scam gong on – I’ve had a couple of e-mails from them claiming I need to register my car – problem is, my existing rego last till July 2024. I didn’t click the link because I didn’t want them to drop spyware onto my PC.
  
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  December 15, 2023 2:40pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Most just want to harvest your email address. Creating lists to sell to spammers and advertisers.
    
    2 1
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    December 15, 2023 3:48pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  “My thoughts and prayers are with them at this difficult time.”
  
  I’m also blowing them air kisses and a virtual big kiss on the bottom. Hope this helps.
  
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  December 15, 2023 4:37pm
I remember when

The NY Times states that in 2021, more than 7,300 pedestrians died in America – three in four of them during the hours between sunset and sunrise.
In recent years, since 2009, deaths of pedestrians at night have steadily risen.
It is out of line with results from other countries that do no have a similar trend.
Researchers are unable to identify the reasons for the rise.
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December 15, 2023 9:43am
Maggie Pie

The internet remains undefeated 😛

https://twitter.com/PapiTrumpo/status/1735317164842717284
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December 15, 2023 9:46am
David George

Princeton University:
“At 9 years of age, children with father loss have significantly shorter telomeres (14% reduction). Paternal death has the largest association (16%), followed by incarceration (10%), and separation and/or divorce (6%). Changes in income partially mediate these associations (95% mediation for separation and/or divorce, 30% for incarceration, and 25% for death). Effects are 40% greater for boys and 90% greater for children with the most reactive alleles of the serotonin transporter genes when compared with those with the least reactive alleles. No differences were found by age at father loss or a child’s race/ethnicity.”
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28716823/

A telomere is a region of repetitive DNA sequences at the end of a chromosome. Telomeres protect the ends of chromosomes from becoming frayed or tangled. Each time a cell divides, the telomeres become slightly shorter.
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December 15, 2023 9:47am
- Flossie
  
  Could you please explain the actual effect this has in terms that someone less scientific than yourself can understand.
  
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  December 15, 2023 10:01am
  - H. Upmann
    
    Alzheimers is one result of frayed and tangled Telomeres.
    
    6 1
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    December 15, 2023 10:37am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Shorter telomeres means you age quicker and die younger as your bodies cells enter senescence (stop dividing) after they have divided a certain number of times, which is controlled by telomere length, they get shorter with each division.
    
    Women deciding they don’t want dads in the picture (initiating between 70 and 90% of separations/divorces depending upon demographic) permanently damage their kids (though we already knew that). You go Guuurl!
    
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    December 15, 2023 12:07pm
- cmm
  
  I wonder whether this is one of those adaptions which has short term benefits but has a longer term downside.
  
  For example there’s that sickle cell gene which is prevalent in (??west??) Africa that reduces problems with malaria in childhood, but increases problems with sickle cell anemia later in life.
  
  This is on net benefit to the people biologically because they are far more likely to survive childhood and make babies – but are more likely to die after age 35. By then they have already done a lot of breeding so it is a biological win.
  
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  December 15, 2023 2:36pm
Vinicius

CNN reports that four suspected members from Hamas have been arrested in Europe over an alleged terrorist plot.

The article states that:
Four alleged Hamas members suspected of plotting terror attacks on European soil have been arrested by German and Dutch authorities, Germany’s federal prosecutor said in a statement on Thursday.

Three people were arrested in Germany and one in the Netherlands on suspicion of planning attacks on Jewish institutions in Europe, the prosecutor said.

I’m sure Chloe Swarbrick and friends will be quick to issue a statement condemning Hamas.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/14/europe/hamas-suspects-arrested-terror-plot-europe-intl/index.html
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December 15, 2023 9:56am
- Libertarians are right
  
  But it’s Zionists they hate right?
  
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  December 15, 2023 11:27am
- rouppe
  
  Puts a lie to the idea that this is just about Gaza being an open air prison.
  
  Jewish sites in Germany and The Netherlands have nothing to do with Israel, just like mosques in NZ have nothing to do with Al Qaeda
  
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  December 15, 2023 12:30pm
- kowtow
  
  Very little publicity on the Cyprus plot.
  
  ‘Reuters
  December 11, 20233:01 AM GMT+13Updated 4 days ago
  
  JERUSALEM/NICOSIA, Dec 10 (Reuters) – Israel helped Cyprus foil an Iranian-ordered attack against Israelis and Jews on the island’
  
  https://www.reuters.com/world/two-iranians-questioned-over-suspected-plots-attack-israelis-cyprus-newspaper-2023-12-10/
  
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  December 15, 2023 1:44pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Alleged members of Hamas.?
  Lets wait for confirmation before we get our knickers in a twist.
  
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  December 15, 2023 5:22pm
I remember when

Balance of Payments showing serious deficit.
Is this when, the general population starts to realise that not everything farmers do is bad for New Zealand?

What they are actually is essential for our well-being?
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December 15, 2023 10:09am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The general population needs to learn that if they had breakfast this morning they should thank farmers and truckies.
  
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  December 15, 2023 10:36am
- NothingLeft
  
  Current account deficit was an eye-watering (and near worst in world) 9% of GDP ($34 Billion from memory) last year. Population never hear about it and the awful long term impacts on NZ because media aren’t interested in reporting on anything damaging to their team.
  
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  December 15, 2023 12:01pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Media don’t understand it, is why.
    
    Numpties.
    
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    December 15, 2023 11:16pm
- Paulus
  
  High wage rises automatically herald higher inflation.
  QED 101
  
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  December 15, 2023 2:16pm
  - cmm
    
    Not true.
    
    Higher wage rises only increase inflation on scarce high value products for which demand increases.
    
    For some things higher wages can reduce inflation as demand increases resulting in reduced manufacturing costs. An excellent example of this is reduced costs for motor vehicles (on a like for like basis).
    
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    December 15, 2023 2:31pm
- cmm
  
  Imagine someone came up with a technology that converts CO2 into food.
  
  Yup, well that’s what agriculture is. Farmers have been doing it for thousands of years.
  
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  December 15, 2023 2:27pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Start with Greta. She can ‘see’ CO2 you know.
    
    3 3
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    December 15, 2023 3:52pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYK1KuLWK-Q
What is a Woman? | Pauline Hanson’s Please Explain.
Albo goes trans. But it doesn’t work out as planned. [3:48]
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December 15, 2023 10:14am
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpdXpL9ywz0
Tucker Carlson’s New Channel.
Tucker Carlson has launched a new channel. He parked trucks outside the WaPO, and CNN saying: The corporate media is DEAD. [10:24]
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December 15, 2023 10:14am
Scooter

The Cook Strait Ferry blowout to 3Billion sounds a bargain compared to the Auckland City Rail Link estimated cost of 5.8Billion. At least the ferry’s will be carrying freight as well as passengers, all the City Rail will be carrying are Jaffa’s.

“So it costs $6 billion to build. It then costs $265 million a year to operate and annual revenues projected of $44m. Who in their right mind would approve that business case?”

https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2023/12/bruce-cotterill-public-transport-is.html?m=1
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December 15, 2023 10:41am
- Handyman
  
  There is no additional revenue. Auckland Transport is not going to increase ticket prices for the affected customers who will each save 10 minutes on the train trip into the CBD.
  Actually, I predict the new line will have fewer passengers per trip because Auckland Transport will put on extra trips to “prove” the tunnel was needed.
  
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  December 15, 2023 11:09am
- NothingLeft
  
  “So it costs $6 billion to build. It then costs $265 million a year to operate and annual revenues projected of $44m. Who in their right mind would approve that business case?”
  
  Choo choo crazies, anti-car zealots and assorted fringe ‘environmentalist misanthropes that don’t bear the costs and in some cases make careers in local politics and town planning – where the malignant subconscious guiding principle is to fuck up people’s lives as much as possible to give them the gratifying feeling of having exerted power over the masses.
  
  I think we need to revolutionize local body politics and let representative samples of populations affected decide on major policy initiatives via polling – because not enough people vote, letting nutty fringes who do vote exercise unwarranted power.
  
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  December 15, 2023 11:58am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    Bruce completely failed to look at the longer term. Infrastructure of this nature is not intended to have a commercial return over a ten or twenty year timeframe. This type of infrastructure lasts 100 years, or more, and is intended to change the city scape. The Sydney loop, which is a similar distance, was built in 1923. It will last many more decades into the future.
    
    Bruce knows full well that National let the contracts for the CRL around 2013, with actual construction work starting 2015. The price at that time was about $3.5 billion. A decade later, with cumulative inflation approaching 30% plus Covid delays, the price has increased by $2.3 billion. Is that really an extraordinary increase?
    
    Bruce’s criticism could be laid at just about all public transport projects involving infrastructure. None cover the cost of the capital when it includes a seperate infrastructure, such as busways through the fare box. However, does anyone think it is a practical alternative to have no public transport, excerpt for buses on existing roads. The Busway in North Shore has made buses a viable and relatively quick form of transport from North Shore to the City. It is seen as the precedent for the Eastern and Western Busways.
    
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    December 15, 2023 1:16pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      Buses and trains – really anything other than robo taxis will be obsolete within 5-10 years. Building any infrastructure now to service them is a waste of money. May as well down tools on all such projects or convert them to car-carrying corridors.
      
      And that is without factoring the likely impacts of human-beating AI, and soon after super-intelligence (expected in next few years) that will probably see a lot, even most of current commuters permanently unemployed within a decade. Take for example the human labour replacing optimus tesla robot almost ready to enter production that will be $30-50k within a couple of years. It’ll put a substantial % of people out of work forever.
      
      Everyone is continuing to plod along as if the way things were is the way things will always be, with slow incremental change. That assumption has stopped being true. This decade, with the burgeoning Singularity will likely be the most economically and politically tumultuous in history, complete break-down of society as unemployment overwhelms political stability and disrupts economy is not unlikely.
      
      We are the dodos watching the first sailing ship arrive at our island with incomprehension, worrying only about our next meal.
      
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      December 15, 2023 1:34pm
      - cmm
        
        Much of employment has been pointless make-work for people over the last couple of decades.
        
        Even if AI take over most human work, the pointless employment will just grow.
        
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        December 15, 2023 2:24pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @cmm.
        Pointless make-work. Just look at the bloated Public Sector.
        Most are only in the office waiting for knock off time.
        
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        December 15, 2023 3:58pm
Benedict Yu

This is behind a paywall, but to summarise, it appears that the restoration of Christchurch Cathedral is running out of money. An undisclosed number of workers on the site have been let go and work has “slowed” while the project is reviewed. However the director is, well, being opaque in telling the full truth. You need to “read between the lines” as Jacinda would say 🙁

Of course all this was so predictable. Well all I can say is good bloody luck in getting a top up from Nicola Willis. The Cathedral could be left as it is, a monument to stupidity and the great era of ‘budget blowouts’. This follows hot on the heels of the unfinished Metro Sports Facility which may also be seeking a Government bailout.

https://www.thepress.co.nz/nz-news/350131284/cathedral-work-slows-questions-go-unanswered

Benedict’s 2024 predictions:

At least two out of the Christchurch Cathedral, the Christchurch Metro Sports Facility, and the Christchurch Stadium will seek bailouts from the Government.

My second prediction is that Nicola Willis will tell them to sod off.
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December 15, 2023 11:10am
- Ghost
  
  Wasn’t behind a pay wall for me
  
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  December 15, 2023 11:14am
- Vinicius
  
  Jim Anderton way back when was one the people who wanted the Cathedral rebuilt? And Philip Burdon.
  
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  December 15, 2023 1:36pm
  - Paulus
    
    Anderton as a Catholic wanted the Government to rebuild the Cathedral, so it would create a precedent
    for his Catholic rebuild.
    
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    December 15, 2023 2:19pm
    - lifesgood
      
      Anderton gave up on his Catholicism long ago. It had nothing to do with rebuilding the Catholic basilica. Anderton just wanted the cathedral rebuild for sentimental reasons…as the Christchurch he knew.
      
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      December 15, 2023 3:57pm
ClanMcleod

‘I’ve never seen anything like this’: Japan says reason behind 1,200 tonnes of fish washing ashore is unknown

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/14/ive-never-seen-anything-like-this-japan-says-reason-behind-1200-tonnes-of-fish-washing-ashore-is-unknown?CMP=share_btn_tw

After they dumped radioactive water from the Fukishima Daiichi nuclear power plant, China banned imports of Japanese seafood.
The Japanese Fisheries Minister has issued a strong denial that there is any possible connection between the reactor water dumping and the dead fish.

Well he would say that, a bit like the blanket denial that there is any possible connection between the covid jabs and the large numbers of injuries and deaths.

To paraphrase Hamlet, “Thou doth protest too much” comes to mind.

I don’t see Japanese fish exports growing any time soon.
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December 15, 2023 11:47am
- NZer In Exile
  
  Dumped there by Greenpeace or other watermelon lying idiots?
  
  The “radioactive” water was apparently less radioactive weight for weight than bananas are. Literally. Even if it wasn’t, it would have diluted very quickly and would not have been so “hot” as to have “cooked” 1200 tonnes of fish! Smell the BS on this one!
  
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  December 15, 2023 3:40pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Dumped! Amazing what you can do with photoshop these days.
    Just have to convince the media, which in this case would be easy.
    
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    December 15, 2023 4:01pm
Ghost

This boy is being let down by the system, should have been left in Australia. Sadly I think we will be reading of him again soon

When Alice heard her grandson was living in homes rife with drug and alcohol, neglect and family harm she dropped everything and flew from Australia to take custody of him.

Weeks later though, she had to return the boy to New Zealand to go and live with family members she says he barely knows.

Article
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December 15, 2023 12:32pm
Maggie Pie

You can be sure the new Police Minister will be keeping a close eye on this.
It could be Mitch’s first real test for Cuddles tomorrow 🙁

Following the death of 2 BP members, the PMC are reporting there’ll be a couple of yuge Tangi’s in Wakatane this weekend.
They’re saying police will exercise powers under the ‘Search & Surveillance Act’ by enforcing gang-conflict-warrants to prevent any retaliatory behaviour or further harm.

Just saying.
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December 15, 2023 12:59pm
- thirteenstars
  
  Excuse me. Excuse me. Is it gonna be yuge? I don’t know. Maybe, maybe not, that’s what they tell me.
  
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  December 15, 2023 1:40pm
- kevn
  
  Maggie… Better warn the local NW owners to flag their weekend plans.
  
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  December 15, 2023 1:40pm
Pope Punctilious II

Graham Adams reports on surging puberty blocker use in NZ. This despite a recent cooling of enthusiasm about “gender-affirming therapy” in UK and Sweden.
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December 15, 2023 1:05pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  There is a big problem. Readers may recall that the last Government banned “conversion therapy”. It is unlawful to try to convert someone from being gay to being straight. I doubt that happens very much, but who cares? I understand that to date the HRC has not received a single complaint.
  
  The problem is that the law also applies to gender. It is unlawful to “encourage someone to believe their sexuality or gender, or parts thereof, are defective or disordered.” You can go to prison for a maximum of three years.
  
  https://tikatangata.org.nz/resources-and-support/guidelines/guidelines-on-conversion-practices
  
  So what happens is a teenage girl goes to a psychologist saying “I am a boy. I need to go on puberty blockers?” It is unlawful for the psychologist to say “Hey let’s take a breath. Maybe you are actually a girl and you just have some issues going on.”
  
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  December 15, 2023 2:03pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    “It is unlawful to try to convert someone from being gay to being straight. ”
    
    Yet in the woke world of complete idiocy being sold as the new normal, it is celebrated when a child is “converted” to being irreversibly sterilised with puberty blockers (often deliberately behind the parent’s backs) and later genitally mutilated in an attempt to make the child some kind of very poor facsimile of the gender opposite to what they were born as. Unfortunately their “new” plastic surgery private bits generally look repulsive (or at least weird) and don’t function properly. Sadly a significant number (if not most) will be very unlikely to find anyone who will be attracted to them physically enough to stay with them long term as a sexual partner. Many will later wake up to the permanent nightmare that was foisted on them in childhood and have a life of regret. But this is not to be questioned???
    
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    December 15, 2023 4:02pm
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Yes, the vast majority of our parliamentarians showed their intellectual and moral bankruptcy by supporting that bill. As you say, it criminalizes any parents and medical practitioners who are reluctant to “affirm” a child’s gender dysphoria.
    
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    December 15, 2023 5:27pm
Maggie Pie

And am I the only one who wishes Ryan Bridge hadn’t gone and spilled the beans
this morning on who his ‘fiancee’ is?
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December 15, 2023 1:21pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Who is Ryan Bridge?
  
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  December 15, 2023 1:47pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Don’t worry about it Bene. He’s not on TV28.
    
    😀
    
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    December 15, 2023 2:01pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I don’t know what that is.
      
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      December 15, 2023 6:20pm
thirteenstars

Here’s the interchange between the Greens and the PM in the House wherein wild-eyed Chloe Swarbrick clearly yells out that Luxon is telling “a demonstrable lie”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FcJ6kUwz4E

Seymour raised the point of order and assuming Hansard is analysed, Swarbrick has got egg on her smarmy face.
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December 15, 2023 1:22pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Luxon claims there that climate change is a “crisis”. Oh dear.
  
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  December 15, 2023 4:23pm
  - MCōs
    
    A lot of folks on this forum would say that’s a demonstrable lie right there
    
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    December 15, 2023 5:08pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Any evidence that there is a climate “crisis” (beyond normal climate disasters that have been happening for millennia) MCōs???
      
      3 2
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      December 15, 2023 5:27pm
Chuck Bird

“We have let a lot of people into our countries who hate us” | Konstantin Kisin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si74-RQ3gnw
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December 15, 2023 1:53pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Yep, just the kind of people the woke want at the front of the immigration queue. It’s almost as if they have a number screws loose upstairs.
  
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  December 15, 2023 4:29pm
Benedict Yu

Just saw a clip showing Rodd Carr, the head of the Climate Change Commission telling us that New Zealand is not on track to meet the 2030 Paris Accord Agreement emissions reduction commitments, by an amount equivalent to one year of total New Zealand emissions.

Well there is a surprise 🙁 Why did the Government agree to commitments that clearly cannot be met? Back of the envelope calculation – that shortfall could mean paying about $10 billion to purchase offshore carbon credits. Is Nicola Willis really going to do that?

Well before the end of this parliamentary term, the Government’s rhetoric on climate change is going to have a very nasty collision with reality.
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December 15, 2023 1:55pm
- cmm
  
  Nicola Willis is massively greenie, so she’s going to have a hard time picking sides here.
  
  $10billion per year?
  $5000 per household per year.
  $100 per household per week.
  
  Go around to every house in NZ and tell them to pay up.
  
  Yup, I expect you’ll get the answer that the NZ government should have given at Paris.
  
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  December 15, 2023 2:19pm
- Paulus
  
  About time the expensive Climate Change Commission was abolished.
  And Carr found a razor blade.
  
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  December 15, 2023 2:21pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    That would be a step too far. There are many people who believe the climate emergency is rubbish. Carr could be replaced by Barry Brill, former NZ Minister of Science & Technology and Minister of Energy. If he wanted the job.
    
    https://www.desmog.com/barry-brill/
    
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    December 15, 2023 5:39pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Will she be open and transparent with us about how much we’ll be forking out every year, how much it’s going to increase by, what useful things the money could have been spent on instead, and how much difference to the climate it’ll make?
  Will we start hearing more about the ‘progress’ other countries are making with their net zero efforts, their increasing energy costs, their decreasing standard of living, and how much better off they are as their industry moves to China, where the energy is cheaper?
  Let’s not be the last country to give up on the net zero insanity.
  
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  December 15, 2023 3:35pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  Rod Carr is gaslighting us.
  He clearly hasn’t taken ACT’s coalition agreement into account. Everyone’s ignored it because they have no argument against it – it destroys their narrative.
  Under ACT’s coalition agreement we have to stop using the x4 multiplier on Methane (calculated over 100yrs when it dissolves to CO2 after 20) and allow for carbon sequestration in grass (since the emissions from cows are included, but not their natural feed?).
  This massively reduces our emissions to the point of eliminating most of Ag’s so-called emissions. In fact, Ag is most likely a carbon reducer.
  
  The corrupt mistreatment of farmers by the climate cult needs to end and it’s only right that it’s our country that does it.
  
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  December 15, 2023 3:38pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Perhaps ACT’s coalition agreement should have changed the UNFCCC?
    
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    December 15, 2023 4:10pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “Under ACT’s coalition agreement we have to stop using the x4 multiplier on Methane (calculated over 100yrs when it dissolves to CO2 after 20) and allow for carbon sequestration in grass (since the emissions from cows are included, but not their natural feed?).”
    
    Sadly, the UNFCCC will entirely ignore any New Zealand decision to change the methodology for calculating methane emissions and instead send New Zealand a bill for billions of dollars. The methodology for calculating emissions is locked in at the UNFCCC. Ironically, New Zealand officials led the development of that methodology for “land and land use change” between 1998 and 2010 – yes it took 12 years to settle.
    
    Will the PM and Nicola Willis pay up when they get the bill? I’ll say it again – this is going to be a nasty reality check – around mid 2025.
    
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    December 15, 2023 6:25pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    See my comment below. It is not so simple.
    
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    December 15, 2023 6:31pm
cmm

Excellent idea from Ronny Raygun.

Every time a legislator comes up with an idea for spending, they also need to come up with the tax plan to pay for it.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jHDFUR-TnNk
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December 15, 2023 2:07pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  How did Reagan do at implementing tax plans to fund his spending?
  
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  December 15, 2023 2:42pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Sounds like you know the answer Mike. Please share.
    
    2 2
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    December 15, 2023 4:09pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      He ran up the debt instead,
      
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      December 15, 2023 4:13pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Grant Robertson going “Who is this Ronny Raygun you speak of Kemosabe?”
  
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  December 15, 2023 4:08pm
- MCōs
  
  The Sydney Opera House was initially funded by a lottery
  The cost overruns on that building were eye watering
  If Sydney was in NZ there’d probably be a kids’ playground on that site or a state house development
  
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  December 15, 2023 4:54pm
Jack5

Surprise! An article in Britian’s conservative Telegraph headlined: “Only Donald Trump can save the free world now”.

The article is by Con Coughlin, the newspaper’s defence and foreign affairs correspondent.

Coughlin says Trump might be just the person to give the West the jolt it needs to wake up to the very real threats it faces.

I think the article’s behind the Telegraph pay wall, but some of Couglin’s argument:

– Biden is wavering in support of Israel.

– A political comeback by Trump “might just succeed” in galvanising the West into a more robust stance against aggressors like Russia and Iran.

– There is some merit to Trump’s claim that, if he were still in office, Vladimir Putin would not have dared to invade Ukraine.

– Trump demonstrated in his dealings with North Korea and Iran, he is not afraid to use American military might as a deterrent.
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December 15, 2023 2:31pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Trump still says he can stop that War in 24 hours.
  “OK guys, meeting in my Singapore office in 3 days.”
  He has the respect of both.
  
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  December 15, 2023 4:12pm
  - MCōs
    
    No he doesn’t otherwise he’d do it now
    I suspect guys like Putin, Kim Jung Un respect nobody because they’re not dependent on anyone. Maybe Xi Jinping
    
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    December 15, 2023 4:44pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      You realise Trump isn’t the prez of the USA at the moment MCōs?
      
      3 3
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      December 15, 2023 5:31pm
      - MCōs
        
        Mr Otto doesn’t seem to think that matters
        
        1 2
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        December 15, 2023 7:53pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Trump will do it when he is POTUS. Then he has the respect.
      
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      December 16, 2023 8:59am
- virtualmark
  
  Con Coughlin is obviously huffing something illegal.
  
  There’s no signs of Biden wavering on support for Israel. To the contrary he’s been consistently seeking support for Israel, but the House Republicans have refused to approve it.
  
  Trump weakened NATO, and would like to destroy it. He seriously damaged the US relationship with the other major Western powers. “might just succeed in galvanising the West”? Laugh!
  
  If Trump were still in office Putin would have had a green light to invade and conquer Ukraine. Do you really think Trump would have militarily supported Zelensky and Ukraine? Against his dear friend Putin? Really????
  
  Trump did assassinate Soleimani. But AFAIK he didn’t do anything else militarily significant against Iran. For example when Iran shot down a Global Hawk drone in June 2019 Trump did … nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. And he sure didn’t do anything militarily against his dear friend Kim Jong Un (who played Trump like a fiddle).
  
  So Coughlin is clearly an idiot who’s been interviewing his typewriter.
  
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  December 15, 2023 5:24pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    virtualmark: “Trump weakened NATO, and would like to destroy it.”
    
    How so? Asking NATO countries to pay their fair share instead of bludging off the USA? Looks like you are drawing a very long bow there.
    
    virtualmark: “If Trump were still in office Putin would have had a green light to invade and conquer Ukraine.”
    
    Why do you imagine that would be the case?
    
    virtualmark: “For example when Iran shot down a Global Hawk drone in June 2019 Trump did … nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch.”
    
    Correct. Wisely he said he’s not going to kill a bunch of people over a remote controlled surveillance robot being blown up. It’s called thinking calmly and clearly and not going off like a half cocked idiot without thinking things through fully.
    
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    December 15, 2023 5:38pm
    - virtualmark
      
      Exile,
      
      You may have missed this but in the last 24 hours the House of Reps passed a new law that means the President of the US cannot unilaterally withdraw the US from NATO, but must either get approval from 2/3rd of Senators or get an Act of Congress. Why do you think they did that? Maybe it’s because Trump tried several times in his first term to pull the US out of NATO but was talked out of it by people like Mattis and Bolton. Read Bolton’s book.
      
      Trump is beholden to Putin. And his first impeachment showed how much he cared about Ukraine. Do you really think Trump would have provided the level of military and political support to Ukraine that Biden has? Do you really think Trump would have been able to pull together the European countries to support Ukraine the way Biden has? If you do then you’re dreaming.
      
      As for Iran … Coughlin’s thesis is that Trump is not afraid to use US military might as a deterrent against Iran and North Korea. I say the evidence doesn’t bear that out. Rather the opposite … Trump consistently said in his 2016 campaign and his Presidency that he didn’t see why America should get involved in overseas wars. I’m neutral on that as a policy, but it’s the opposite of Coughlin’s thesis.
      
      As I said, Coughlin sounds deluded.
      
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      December 15, 2023 5:55pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        virtualmark “Trump is beholden to Putin.”
        
        A bold claim. How do you come to that conclusion (succinctly in your own words)?
        
        I’m thinking it’s more his instincts tell him Putin is rational and can be reasoned with. Russia Gate was a giant crock, and after 2 years of loony left lies turned out to be a complete nothing burger.
        
        Did not Trump threaten to pull out of NATO as a lever to get the other players to pay their fair share?
        
        Trump’s overall strategy appeared to me to be not to get the US stretched too thin militarily, and to build up it’s arsenal and military technology so that the enemies would know not to mess with the US. He was also aware that wars are very costly and probably was also aware if entered into half cocked can cause a lot of long lasting bad blood with other regimes.
        
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        December 15, 2023 8:04pm
Maggie Pie

The PM has just announced the appointment of JC as a KC.

Big CONGRATS Judith 😀

Sooo well deserved!
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December 15, 2023 3:00pm
- Ghost
  
  that will make some precious people have a melt down
  
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  December 15, 2023 3:05pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    “It is appropriate that the Attorney-General, as the senior law officer of the Crown, be appointed as King’s Counsel.”
    A little disingenuous, Mr Luxon.
    I think only a couple of previous A-Gs have been appointed as KCs(QCs), as a prestige measure when representing the country in international proceedings.
    
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    December 15, 2023 3:19pm
    - Libertarians are right
      
      She’s the sixth. Finlayson being the last.
      In fact, I’d say that it’s not appropriate to have an Attorney-General that isn’t qualified to be a KC (Parker, Wilson and Cullen as examples).
      Judith Collins was president of the Auckland Law Society and Deputy of the NZ Law Society plus ran her own firm etc. It’s not at all unreasonable for her to be a KC.
      
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      December 15, 2023 4:04pm
      - MCōs
        
        6/34
        She must be special
        
        1 0
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        December 15, 2023 4:31pm
      - fernglas
        
        All lawyer A-G’s are appointed as KC’s by convention.
        
        1 1
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        December 15, 2023 6:59pm
      - MCōs
        
        Not David Parker
        
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        December 15, 2023 7:50pm
  - alex Masterley
    
    I can hear heads exploding all over auckland.
    Greg Presland, in particular, will be doing his nut.
    
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    December 15, 2023 4:00pm
- Nickc2
  
  Ok Maggie, I’ll ask.
  Who is JC, and
  What is a KC?
  Thanks in anticipation.
  
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  December 15, 2023 3:15pm
  - Ghost
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/504829/attorney-general-judith-collins-made-a-king-s-counsel
    
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    December 15, 2023 3:21pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Ok, I think I’ve got it, where:
    JC = Judith Collins, and
    KC = Kings Council.
    Is that correct?
    
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    December 15, 2023 3:27pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Smarter than the average bear 😀
      
      – Yogi
      
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      December 15, 2023 3:54pm
    - greybeard
      
      Think about what “DC” could mean.
      
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      December 15, 2023 6:29pm
  - sungsamning
    
    Judith Collins. She has been appointed a Kings Counsel.
    
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    December 15, 2023 8:43pm
Maggie Pie

And great to hear the Police were able to thwart a home burglary in Remmers this morning.
They were able to follow the offenders all the way by Helicopter from Abbots Way back to Otara where they arrested three arsehats aged between 18 and 23. Firearms were also seized.

It would never have happened under Ginny. This is Mitch is living up to his word and reputation.
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December 15, 2023 3:31pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Ginny would have said “make sure you have the right bullets, we don’t want any accidents.”//
  
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  December 15, 2023 4:26pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Rainbow coloured paint balls?
    
    3 0
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    December 15, 2023 4:43pm
    - nathie
      
      KFC – after all they are “good boys”!
      
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      December 15, 2023 4:56pm
Chuck Bird

77% discount. Hopefully, the law change limiting it to 40% will be passed soon. There have been men sentenced to longer for consensual sex but removing a condom.

Albert Park attack: Judge rejects home detention for teen who raped stranger at knifepoint

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crime/albert-park-attack-judge-rejects-home-detention-for-teen-who-raped-stranger-at-knifepoint/DDP7CBG56FF2ZI6FOFVMFNOA7E/
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December 15, 2023 4:04pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Good God! 🙁
  What should be DONE with these type of people?
  
  (I’m referring to the dudge)
  
  8 2
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  December 15, 2023 4:20pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Nah… more than likely someone renting a mouldy damp bedsit in The Hutt.
    
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    December 15, 2023 6:54pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  I just noticed the article said the max penality for rape is 14 years whereas it is 20 years. I wonder if the error is the reporter or the useless judge.
  
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  December 15, 2023 4:25pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Re teen rapist:
  I see that he, through his legal advisors, is claiming in mitigation that he had a terrible up bringing when various violent things happened to him.
  This is a familiar excuse given for anti social behaviour in just about every violence related case .
  That being the story, perhaps it is time for the parents or care givers at the time (when these poor criminals were young) to be required to attend court hearings to be questioned.
  Let’s hear what they have to say. Did they beat and damage the child when he was young?
  If so, what responsibility do they accept for his teenage behaviour now?
  So many rapists and murderers claim they were badly treated etc etc, but how does the court really know if that is true?
  The accused can make up anything to get them off and there seems to be no way to prove they are telling the truth or just making up stuff.
  
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  December 15, 2023 6:26pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

More Antarctic bullshit. The gaslighters are at it again. 16 and 19 are interesting.
“and scientists have estimated global sea level could ultimately rise around 10 feet if the Thwaites collapsed.”
10 feet? Pig’s arse. Not even 10mm.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/melting-of-the-west-antarctic-ice-sheet-is-now-unavoidable-study-finds/ss-AA187QFN?
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December 15, 2023 4:37pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Sadly for the climate nuts Antarctica has been net gaining ice for the last 20 years. Back to the drawing board with those crapola alarmist models!
  
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  December 15, 2023 4:45pm
NZer In Exile

As predicted by alarmist activists, Maldives Islands sinking rabidly under rising sea levels due to human-Co2 nightmare. Panic and mayhem ensues.

https://odysee.com/@TonyHeller:c/drowned-maldives-2:2

/
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December 15, 2023 4:57pm
Swifty

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/133461575/a-leg-of-kiwi-lamb-for-20-cents-crazy-prices-go-viral

Paknsave Mt Albert have got their lamb legs at $8.99 per kilo today.

I picked up a 2.71 kg leg for $24.38.

Bargain.
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December 15, 2023 4:58pm
- Ghost
  
  Story to appear after Xmas
  
  Woman who bought leg of lamb for 5 pence says it was the worst decision as her family all spent Xmas night shitting their brains out.
  
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  December 15, 2023 8:49pm
greybeard

What a depressing list of slices of NZ life on Stuff today !

501 woman deportee murders another by stabbing zillions of times

Labour left a $15bn infrastructure hole for our current govt, of course

Some scumbag teen rapist keeps his name secret, of course

Some scumbag woman abductor of Oranga-Tamariki kids keeps name secret, of course

Ryan and Matty leave their highly-paid jobs to do something else ( who cares )

Kelvin Davis is about to do the same ( who cares )

Some scumbag rips-off various people with magical invisible and non-existent home insulation ( he is a scumbag, they are still cold )
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December 15, 2023 4:58pm
Maggie Pie

Just been prepping desert and wathing the news.

Doesn’t sound like those poor littke girls at Gloriavale get to experience a normal childhood, does it 🙁
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December 15, 2023 6:26pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Looks like one pedo has pinned his colors to the mast.
  Just waiting for the other two 🙁
  
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  December 15, 2023 7:30pm
greybeard

I have just watched about 15 minutes of news on TV3.
Mike McRoberts must be one of the last bastions of “maori language at every opportunity”.
And the article on Kelvin Davis was an eye-opener !
He has ditched his glasses and grown a very grey beard: sorry Kelvin, everyone still knows who you are and what you did / didn’t do.
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December 15, 2023 6:26pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Some folks have been warning about the problems of having mixed wards in our hospitals.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/elderly-woman-brutally-assaulted-in-tauranga-hospital-with-chair-by-another-patient/NB4FBHMOMVH5XFHELBYR2CZDLM/
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December 15, 2023 6:56pm
- Ghost
  
  Bloody hell.
  
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  December 15, 2023 7:04pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Jesus wept.
  The National Coalition have a huge ‘repair job’ ahead of them after 6 years of Ardern and her cronies.
  
  ‘Dame’ Jacinda…..wot. a. sick. joke.
  
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  December 15, 2023 7:27pm
Swifty

Has anyone seen any attempted defence of this from Labour circles?

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/133460439/former-governments-15b-infrastructure-spendup-rushed-illinformed–auditorgeneral

I’d be interested in seeing how they try to spin this. Just what will they try to pull from their bag of tricks to attempt to shift blame or otherwise absolve themselves from any wrong doing?

I’m assuming of course that it would be about 1,000:1 against them coming out and showing integrity by saying “Yes, we acted carelessly and recklessly with public money, it was wrong and we apologise to New Zealanders and undertake never to allow it to happen ever again.”

Yep, pigs might fly.
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December 15, 2023 7:05pm
- Ghost
  
  A one day article. Tomorrow it will be replaced with Luxon is racist, evil government are attacking Māori and children.
  
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  December 15, 2023 7:25pm
  - Swifty
    
    I must admit to being a bit confused by all this negativity lately towards the new government.
    
    We have just had a Labour government who did a whole lot of things, for Maori and others, at great expense, and almost without exception Maori outcomes and measures went backwards – but the crowd cheers Labour.
    
    Now we have a new government, who promises to stop the things that took Maori backwards and to try a few new things of their own to lift Maori achievement – and before they’ve even done a single thing they are being attacked and criticised by the same crowd.
    
    It only makes sense when you realise that the crowd is partisan and are merely automatically cheering for their side and lambasting their opponents – irrespective of the results each side actually delivers.
    
    I would also add that those who brainlessly applaud Labour for spending vast sums of New Zealanders tax money on activities which delivered negative outcomes should themselves be attacked. Attacked and ridiculed for their recklessness with the proper management and use of public money. Money taken from the pockets of hard-pressed NZ families and which would have been far better to have been left there.
    
    I think we should be doing far, far more to rip the shit out of these critics and demand they substantiate why they advocate for New Zealanders money being used so recklessly.
    
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    December 15, 2023 7:59pm
    - Ghost
      
      It’s the lefts plan to try and collapse the government through the outrage of their media hacks. It’s a coup by the fifth estate
      
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      December 15, 2023 8:19pm
      - Swifty
        
        Fifth or fourth?
        
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        December 15, 2023 8:32pm
      - Ghost
        
        Fourth sorry, brain fart. Although part of the fifth as well, funded and controlled by the same that fund the fourth.
        
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        December 15, 2023 8:45pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Most of my comments have two downticks today.
Good one Mike/Mike.
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December 15, 2023 7:20pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Yep the phantom poopers have been doing the rounds on here today.
  
  Love to see names attached to downvotes. Some I suspect will be the usual suspect/s. Some I suspect will be Johnny-come-lately mates of the usual suspect/s who nobody has heard of.
  
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  December 15, 2023 8:14pm
Ghost

This should remain with the police, not nz transport

The number of speed cameras across Aotearoa is set to soar as the New Zealand Transport Agency / Waka Kotahi (NZTA) takes over operations from police.

A road safety charity supports the move but National’s transport minister isn’t so sure.

Article
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December 15, 2023 8:29pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  It’s thanks to our new enlightened and forward thinking Minister-of-Transport, that this sort of left-wing mental retardation will never see the light of day.
  
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  December 15, 2023 8:46pm

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