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December 13, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 13 December 2023

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General Debate

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The Redbaiter

Yesterday in the house National MP Nicola Grigg volunteered congratulations to the new assistant speaker, Green MP and Marxist Teanau Tuiono. She said she was happy to see him in the speaker’s chair.

After new Maori MP Hana Clarke had led her followers in the public gallery in an aggressive and intimidating Maori war dance, in a complete insult to parliaments protocols, she received a standing ovation from the National party. Nicola Willis crossed the floor to embrace Hana and giver her a kiss on the cheek.

Under the the National Party, New Zealand has signed (at COP23) an international agreement saying agriculture and food production must urgently adapt to respond to climate change change. In more recent days they signed a similar agreement to triple misnamed “renewable” energy. They also walked back their promise to repeal the “App tax”.

The National party are not there to do what their supporters elected them to. They are there to right the ship of socialism and steer it on a more correct and efficient course.

Was good to see some fight back in the house yesterday with Winston Peters as acting PM. We’re obviously going to see bugger all of it from Mr Luxon and his Labour party lite comrades.
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December 13, 2023 8:01am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Nice to read that Redbaiter know more about what national party voters want than national party MPs do.
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:18am
  - peterwn
    
    Precisely.
    
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    December 13, 2023 9:29am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Having watched Nicola Willis in action, and her dedication to fix NZ, her approach to Hana Clarke, Willis is probably applying the adage, “Keep your friends close, your enemies even closer.”
      
      And, sunshine melts an ice cold heart, much quicker than a frosty reception.
      
      Either way Willis is not afraid or intimidated by Hana Clarke.
      
      Besides, declaring war on people with mental issues you have to endure for the next 3 years, will only make them dig in even further. If you are going to change someone, you cannot do it by attacking them.
      
      Hana Clarke has clearly had a bad upbringing, causing her to view others who don’t share her delusions and distorted view of the world, through a lense of distrust, hate and anger.
      
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      December 13, 2023 11:15am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        JackRabbit: “Willis is probably applying the adage, “Keep your friends close, your enemies even closer.””
        
        Maybe. Maybe not. Testing required to find answer.
        
        You been on the hopium pipe Jack?
        
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        December 13, 2023 9:32pm
  - Damocles11
    
    And yet you and your Union / activist / Marxist cronies will continue to hand-wring & paint National as ‘far right’.
    
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    December 13, 2023 10:22am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Huh? When did I ever describe the social democratic national party as ‘far right’?
      
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      December 13, 2023 11:20am
- Scott
  
  I’m pleasantly surprised by this government. I like all of their 49 action points. I like the stiffening of National’s spine by NZ First and Act.
  They are doing a lot right. A lot.
  
  I for one look forward to seeing open road speeds restored in the Wairarapa. I look forward to inflation coming down. There’s a lot this government is doing and much of it is very good. 😊
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:20am
  - rouppe
    
    Are you sure that existing reductions are going to be reversed, or simply that no (or fewer) further reductions are going to occur?
    
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    December 13, 2023 2:05pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Did you see ACT has dropped to 6%? I wonder why that would be
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:23am
  - rockape
    
    Seymore arrogance.
    
    8 22
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    December 13, 2023 10:21am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Seymour and Winston are settling into their true power positions. Seymour is not half the man Winston is.
      
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      December 13, 2023 11:20am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Probably, but you get plenty of down ticks from the rusted on ole ACT supporters, but no word how they will get support back from Peters and Labour
        
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        December 13, 2023 12:18pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Agreed, plenty of down ticks, but his gob stuff them up, he has wound back his arrogance but he has lost the people, he will be lucky to see 5% next election
      
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      December 13, 2023 12:15pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Winston arm wrestling and winning.
      
      6 2
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      December 13, 2023 3:01pm
  - Damocles11
    
    Didn’t we just have an election? Why on earth would they be promoting political polls now(?) Don’t give credence and amplification to media **** stirring.
    
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    December 13, 2023 10:24am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Polls now keeps everyone informed. Don’t forget, Jaspinda left us in the dark with her lies. 2026 is not that far away really.
      
      5 2
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      December 13, 2023 3:03pm
  - Simon
    
    “Did you see ACT has dropped to 6%?“
    
    Don’t get programmed like the left.
    
    14 2
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    December 13, 2023 11:28am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      I will tell you lot that said ACT weee guaranteed 20% in the election every time I see ACT dropping, as I said before, Seymour snd his I will burn the place down attitude has lost them huge support, the tot has clearly not stopped
      
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      December 13, 2023 12:20pm
  - sungsamning
    
    I’m still prepared to give NZF the benefit of the doubt. Credit where its due. I wonder if I’ll still feel this way by Easter?
    
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    December 13, 2023 4:15pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Seymour’s libertarianism intersects with a lot of far left shit. EG full term abortion.
      Winston is a lot more pragmatic and in tune with the sensible centre IMHO.
      
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      December 13, 2023 9:38pm
- imalwaysright
  
  Red
  Add to that Mitchell expressing full confidence in coster, a massive turnaround from his pre election rhetoric that indicated costers position would be untenable, and Stanford appointing a marxist ministry official to run her office.
  I agree with you Red, this is starting to look like the product advertised is not the one supplied .
  Wrong size and wrong colour!
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:32am
  - septic skeptic
    
    IMO this is a mistake. Even if Coster can do the job replacing him would have sent a positive message throughout the force that things have to change.
    
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    December 13, 2023 10:37am
  - mawm
    
    Imalways – remember all the National shills on this blog who were saying that National had to project themselves as centre left to get the votes and then they would come out as a centre right party afterwards? It ain’t happening. Act and NZ first remain our only hope and the MSM realise this and will go all out to destroy them. Winston has cut them short but Seymour has yet to fire.
    
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    December 13, 2023 10:58am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Maw,
      I’m surprised at how quickly national have, to be kind, taken their foot off the gas.
      A disproportionate amount of positive change has come from NZF and Act. A national majority would have been detrimental .
      
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      December 13, 2023 11:40am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      O one said centre left, we said straddle the centre as they did, they won, and now have forced Labour further to the left
      
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      December 13, 2023 3:09pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Add to that Mitchell expressing full confidence in coster…
    
    That’s not how I am reading that. Mitchell was giving Coster some slack (rope). And what we are probably not seeing is any direct conversations or phone calls putting Coster on notice. In writing it has to be kept formal and proper.
    
    Either Coster will perform or he will earn a ‘voluntary resignation.’
    
    “Coster, we are watching you. Slip up and do stupid shit and you are gone.”
    
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    December 13, 2023 11:25am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Mitchell hasn’t expressed confidence in Coster. He has written to him, telling him what his expectations are, and given him the message about the consequences of not meeting the Minister’s expectations. The ball is in Coster’s court.
    
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    December 13, 2023 11:30am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Mitchell said to Sean Plunket that he has confidence in coster. Monday morning .
      
      12 3
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      December 13, 2023 11:35am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        He did not say that to Hosking on Tuesday, he said he was happy he had listened and he will watching progress
        
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        December 13, 2023 12:29pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        https://youtu.be/av4lugVzm_4?si=y_TPdmCM9q69V7KH
        
        Mitchell talking to Plunket about Coster. Make your own minds up.
        
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        December 13, 2023 12:47pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Exactly, and he told Hosking on Tuesday he did not have confidence in him
      
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      December 13, 2023 12:28pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    He did not express full confidence at all, infact he said on Tuesday speaking to Hosking he had lost confidence, he said he has clearly given his expectations, he said he has taken it all on board, I note already police have far more exposure at criminal events since the wee election, they dictated to gangs in Foxton after a gang funeral any crime will be dealt with, and there was no trouble at all, stop the lies about what new ministers have said, he did not say he had full confidence in Coster
    
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    December 13, 2023 12:27pm
  - Observer of Life
    
    I’m always….. And what does G from Dunedin say about the National back tracking. 🦗
    
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    December 13, 2023 7:21pm
- Grunter
  
  I agree Redbaiter. But I’m also not surprised.
  
  It will be interesting to see next weeks ‘Mini Budget’ and financial update. Will The Nats decimate the ‘public service’ sector as they should? I doubt it but I am hoping for an early Xmas present.
  
  We need Milei’s chainsaw!
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:45am
  - JackRabbit
    
    We will find out the true state of the finances of NZ, and find out what Billy Bunty really has done with all those missing cream buns.
    
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    December 13, 2023 11:29am
- leoj
  
  The namby-pamby party’s spine is not to found with Luxon or Willis.
  
  The Nats have become soft, weak and too accommodating for those who bitterly hate them.
  
  Crossing the floor to hug and kiss a maori youngster is just piss weak.
  
  All the lass will do is laugh and think that the Nats are bunch of idiots. It obviously doesn’t take much to fool Willis. What a woke, rubbish response.
  
  Being nice does not work. It just makes you look pathetic.
  
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  December 13, 2023 11:14am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    And Act are spiralling out of re-election chances, I guess arrogance and not doing what they stated will do that
    
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    December 13, 2023 12:32pm
- Simon
  
  Wellington is a DEI waste land. Maori party are basically special needs. There are are only a handful of competent holding it together. They must play the stupid games with those with special needs to get through.
  
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  December 13, 2023 11:35am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    What would happen if the coalition moved the capital to Auckland? Just wondering.
    
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    December 13, 2023 9:40pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Redbaiter, you do know that a Haka is an expression of emotion, not always the war dance depicted by many ignorant foreigners.
  
  Suggest you readup on the All Blacks Ka Mate haka.
  No war dance there.
  
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  December 13, 2023 12:15pm
  - miltonF
    
    Well I’ve just done some research to confirm what I already knew:
    
    “Traditionally, the Māori people of New Zealand performed haka to display a tribe’s pride, strength and unity. The haka is commonly known as a WAR DANCE used to fire up warriors on the battlefield, but it’s also a customary way to celebrate, entertain, welcome, and challenge visiting tribes.”
    
    “Ka mate” was originally used by NZ’s greatest warlord Te Rauparaha, who during the musket wars, conquered large swathes of the lower North Island and much of the South Island. Earning himself the nickname “Napoleon of the South”. “Ka mate” literally translates to “it is death”.
    
    Still think it’s not a war dance?
    
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    December 13, 2023 6:25pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      Keep researching MF:-)
      
      I base my knowledge of the use of Haka, to Maori elders I dealt with in the Eastern Bay of Plenty and Maori Land Court judge(Judge Patrick Savage), when I worked for the Gummint.
      The judge had served on the Waitangi Tribunal and was a a very knowledgably man of things Maori.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Savage_(judge)
      
      Ever been to a graduation ceremony at University when the Whanau of the graduate launch in to a haka? Or a Maori Wedding? Yep not a war dance.
      
      I dont know where your research led you as you gave no references.
      
      But the Ka Mate Haka is based on Te Rauparaha escaping his pursuing enemies and hiding in a food pit.
      
      On emerging he supposedly gave the haka gratitude for his survival.
      He thought he was going to die.
      but he survives.
      
      The popular literal translation is
      I die! I die! I live! I live!
      I die! I die! I live! I live!
      This is the hairy man
      Who summons the sun and makes it shine
      A step upward, another step upward!
      A step upward, another… the sun shines!
      
      ie I die I die
      But then he survives
      I live I live.
      
      https://www.sportingnews.com/us/rugby-union/news/haka-new-zealand-rugby-team-origins-lyrics-all-blacks/
      
      Te Rauparaha, the warrior chief of the Maori tribe Ngati Toa, composed ‘Ka Mate’ — the haka used by New Zealand’s men’s rugby teams — in the 1820s to celebrate the fiery warrior cheating death in battle.
      
      The All Blacks today perform the haka as a show of strength and unity prior to kick-off of a Test match.
      
      Your report card is thus marked. Can do better.!!!
      But to be fair.
      It is a VERY common perception that a Haka is a war dance.
      
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      December 13, 2023 6:55pm
G152

Up until yesterday I had little to no regard for Winston Peters.
Then as deputy PM he wreaked a great amount of damage amongst the {for want of a better word} opposition.
And most of the opposition was unaware of what was happening.
Going to be a good three years
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December 13, 2023 8:11am
- peterwn
  
  Unfortunately Winston could still become a thorn in the side of the Coalition down the track. So far Chris Luxon has been amazingly successful with establishing a good working relationship with Winston and David and hopefully this will continue.
  Redbaiter in his 8.01am post did not seem to happy that Nicola was being welcoming to new opposition MP’s but again she was wanting to set the tone for harmony which many people want to see.
  Very much a case of ‘keep your friends close and keep your enemies even closer’.
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:41am
  - thirteenstars
    
    “Very much a case of ‘keep your friends close and keep your enemies even closer’”
    
    Oh, please.
    
    This is the Nicola Willis who said she had no opinion on men in girl’s changing rooms because it was a situation she had not personally encountered. She’s a luvvie. The finance portfolio gives her a platform to look tough but when it comes to the real cultural and philosophical issues that are ripping the guts out of our country, she’s as soft and squidgy as they come.
    
    Maipi-Clarke is a Marxist. Her entire ideology is antithetical to democracy and individual liberty. If her party held sway this country would be an authoritarian hellhole.
    
    She and her cohorts in the Maori Party and in the Green Party are telling us exactly what they believe and what they want to do, very clearly and very loudly, and it is hateful in the extreme.
    
    Why would you hug that?
    
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    December 13, 2023 10:44am
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      Willis also voted for the atrocious “Conversion practices” ban, along with most of her Nats colleagues as well as Seymour. That legislation criminalizes any parents or medical practitioners who are reluctant to “affirm” a child’s gender dysphoria.
      
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      December 13, 2023 1:24pm
      - Notsofast
        
        This needs hammering.
        Education then a referendum on whether NZ wishes to continue Shaneel Lal’s program of sterilizing homosexual youth is vital. In the USA the benchmark estimate is a million dollars to look after these eunuchs despite a dramatically shortened life.
        But it is not even the money, it is the ruined families.
        
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        December 13, 2023 1:42pm
    - peterwn
      
      Smart one, that Nicola. Better to keep head down and have ‘no opinion’ than to pick a wrangle with that ‘community’ which would distract from the business at hand.
      
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      December 13, 2023 3:16pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Sorry, didn’t see your “Keep your friends close, your enemies even closer.” until now, that I also posted as I was reading form the top of the blog.
    
    It is so true.
    
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    December 13, 2023 11:33am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Not sure, all three parties have sign each others policies, it eould ve a bit stupid of him to go off the reservation later. He will start to seperate himself away in the months leading up to the 26 election, but I doubt very much if he is even still there
    
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    December 13, 2023 12:35pm
    - peterwn
      
      The thought of being tapped on the shoulders with a sword in 2027 will keep him on the straight and narrow.
      
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      December 13, 2023 5:54pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Peters has been the best part of the election result so far.
  
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  December 13, 2023 10:59am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Who would have thort it 🙂
    
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    December 13, 2023 2:12pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Rubbish
    
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    December 13, 2023 3:11pm
- wsk12345
  
  I missed it – what happened?
  
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  December 13, 2023 11:30am
Maggie Pie

RANDOM IMPERTINENT QUESTION

Should the Speaker re-introduce a Dress Code to Parliament?
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December 13, 2023 8:22am
- lifesgood
  
  Absolutely! The place is descending into a circus with those clowns in cowboy hats etc. No respect.
  
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  December 13, 2023 8:32am
  - kowtow
    
    I consider the Green very public signal of being pro terror , murder ,rape and hostage taking by wearing those scarves to be morally outrageous and an insult to our democratic traditions and to parliament itself.
    
    The rest of them are just rude morons what with their hats and open neck shirts.
    
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    December 13, 2023 9:20am
- pdm
  
  That would be difficult for Grant Robertson Maggie.
  
  I don’t think he can do up the top button on his shirts to wear a tie these days – scruffy.
  
  Get rid of the bloody hats. One of The Maori Party women seemed to be wearing a lamp shade yesterday and good mannered men do not wear hats indoors.
  
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  December 13, 2023 8:43am
  - igm
    
    Bet they do not dare to enter a club or RSA in the attire they insult our Parliament with.
    Nothing but unemployable self-entitled losers.
    
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    December 13, 2023 8:53am
  - RoboRob
    
    Historically in the European culture hats on inside is a complete no no. I understand that we a more relaxed these days BUT wearing hats in parliament is ‘culturally offensive’ and the Maori MPs should be pulled up on it. Imagine if I went to a marae and sat on the table. Maori wouldn’t put up with that and neither should we put up with hats in parliament.
    
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    December 13, 2023 9:14am
    - MCōs
      
      We ain’t a European culture if for no other reason than Europe is not mono cultural
      
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      December 13, 2023 11:28am
      - RoboRob
        
        We absolutely are a European / Christian culture. Our traditions and roots flow from Europe. Way to straw man my point.
        
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        December 13, 2023 1:41pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Rawiri Waititi is seemingly embarrassed about his baldness. Perhaps we could have a whip around and buy him a toupe or, more appropriately, a clown wig.
    
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    December 13, 2023 9:18am
    - Graeme Hall
      
      There is always The Rug Doctor or failing that lend him a sewing machine.
      
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      December 13, 2023 4:14pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      He could probably afford to have hair transplants if it’s a big worry?
      
      1 0
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      December 13, 2023 9:47pm
  - Jethrod
    
    Robbo incidentally had a tie on, his top button done up and was respectfully quiet at the Speech given by Cindy baby last week. OK to respect the throne but not your fellow members.
    Our Robbo always wore a tie when he was in Government and was minister of Finance
    
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    December 13, 2023 10:17am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Totally agree.
  
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  December 13, 2023 8:46am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  It is a matter of respect.
  New Zealanders should show respect to their elected leaders. For those leaders have, vested in them, the power to take money off New Zealanders. It is called tax.
  The leaders should behave in a manner that warrants that respect.
  An easy way to earn respect is to dress in an appropriate way. For example; I would consider it inappropriate for the member for Nelson to dress in a skanky bare mid riff outfit. And similarly I consider it inappropriate for members to wear cowboy hats and open necked shirts in The House.
  
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  December 13, 2023 8:48am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    And yet the usual idiots like Tau Henare are outraged that 4 members of Act didn’t ‘respect’ the waiata. wtf do they expect when they have no regard for anyone else’s culture but their own?
    
    I’m rapidly losing any respect for anything to do with their ‘culture’, they are setting back race relations decades.
    
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    December 13, 2023 11:03am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Or, how about we simply ignore race? A super dooper radical concept I know!
      
      1 0
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      December 13, 2023 9:49pm
  - mawm
    
    I would like those who have been elected to, and for which I pay, represent me in our highest legislative body to dress in a manner showing respect for that body irrespective of which party they belong to. If they do not want to respect it they do not belong there.
    
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    December 13, 2023 11:09am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Yes. No hats, male and female.
  Ties for men – even the gay ones.
  Suits or trousers and jackets for male and female.
  Tidy hair. Some women have never seen a hairbrush (Tinetti)
  Dress shoes, no sneakers etc.
  Just tidy yourselves up you scruffy bastards.
  
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  December 13, 2023 8:51am
  - MCōs
    
    Boris won’t stand a chance in your parliament whereas Winston would be a permanent fixture
    
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    December 13, 2023 9:13am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Yeah, Boris combs his hair with a balloon!
      
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      December 13, 2023 10:18am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Seriously MCos, how long before they want to turn up in a tee, shorts, and jandals?
      
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      December 13, 2023 3:09pm
  - Inandout
    
    SO, we mug taxpayers are paying these MPs serious money and in return we must see a standard of dress in the House. Alternative is don’t accept them into the chamber until they comply.
    
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    December 13, 2023 10:20am
  - wsk12345
    
    ties are last century, I don’t see the point. I also don’t think we need to be prescriptive about what they wear, but it should be “business attire” – no sneakers, or other “weekend” clothes. The clothes you put on for work when you have external meetings, not the ones you wear on friday.
    
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    December 13, 2023 12:03pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      “ties are last century…”
      
      umm no. I agree that there is a trend in New Zealand to dispense with ties. However that is mainly in the public sector.
      
      Try turning up to a business meeting in China, Australia, the USA, or Europe without a suit and tie.
      
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      December 13, 2023 12:56pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        No ties? Just wear the biggest greenstone/jade/bone carving you can find.
        I have a plastic imitation bone fish hook. About 300mm long, 100mm wide and 40mm thick. Has not got me into trouble yet.
        
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        December 13, 2023 3:12pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Until very recently – like the last couple of years, I took it for granted that the vast majority of women had better fashion sense than the majority of men. I doubt that such a claim would have been seen as remotely controversial. Just having lunch I switched on Question Time. And saw Chloe Swarbrick 🙁
    
    12 0
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    December 13, 2023 12:53pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      She is too skinny for the clothes she wears.
      
      4 0
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      December 13, 2023 3:15pm
      - Observer of Life
        
        SteveO: Ardern was like that. Wore clothes that were WAY too big and looked like she’d raided Helen Clark’s wardrobe. No fashion sense at all.
        
        3 0
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        December 13, 2023 9:27pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Observer,
        Ardern looked like she found a suitcase of Grannies clothes
        
        0 0
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        December 14, 2023 9:55am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      I live in a lefty zone of Melbourne. Many people proudly dress themselves up like freaks.
      
      2 0
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      December 13, 2023 9:52pm
- nathie
  
  Absolutely!
  
  And same with the supposed national broadcaster, TVNZ. Compare TVNZ’s scruffy dressed reporters (without ties) with their immaculately dressed counterparts at Newshub.
  
  Wouldn’t be surprised to see TVNZ start imitating their sloppy Left-wing mates in Parliament and start reporting wearing cowboy hats, weird wigs, keffiyehs and Che t-shirts!
  
  23 3
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  December 13, 2023 8:52am
- Stellaboxer
  
  Absolutely their should be a dress code in parliament certain members are turning it into a pantomime.
  
  23 1
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  December 13, 2023 9:01am
  - AitchW
    
    There is a dress code. No hats, ties and jackets for gentlemen. Pretty sure that mere are not part of the code.
    
    2 0
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    December 13, 2023 8:49pm
- Vinicius
  
  Cannot have Maori wearing ties in the Debating Chamber as Waititi reckoned in 2021 and came up with the idiotic notion that they’re a ‘colonial noose’.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/maori-party-co-leader-rawiri-waititi-enters-parliament-without-tie-is-kicked-out-by-mallard/DTX4KJIWICRTZTTDJ2X6B4MLUY/
  
  18 1
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  December 13, 2023 9:13am
  - John Loveridge
    
    What does he call that Western hat that he wears, then?
    
    12 0
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    December 13, 2023 11:03am
  - kowtow
    
    Colonial noose?
    
    I wonder what he thinks of his bank account balance every pay day on us .
    
    10 0
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    December 13, 2023 11:58am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Waititi wears a cultural tie, e-hoa.
    
    5 0
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    December 13, 2023 3:19pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Why even wear trousers then???
    
    1 0
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    December 13, 2023 9:55pm
- Ghost
  
  Write the speaker and tell him
  
  8 4
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  December 13, 2023 9:15am
- Nickc2
  
  Most definitely!
  
  10 1
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  December 13, 2023 9:24am
- Clyde
  
  Its not an impertinent question Maggie. Yes, there should be a dress code that all members adhere to. I don’t necessarily agree with ties in all professions. I recall a Doctor for example tell me that he chose to wear a bowtie as he didn’t think it was a healthy thing to do to inadvertantly allow his tie to carry bugs from one patient to another when it drooped in their faces. But for God’s sake, when a golf club can “fine” a member for wearing a hat in a clubroom, but a Parliament allows the sort of crap that passes for respectful clothing, there needs to be a reset.
  
  Naturally the East Polynesians are to the forefront in peddling their not-so-subtle disrespect for the entire institution by wearing cowboy hats and the like, as well as demonstrating their love of nature by cloaking themselves in the feathers of endangered birds, but this is to be expected.
  
  The Watermelons demonstrate their allegiance to groups such as Hamas, and again, only to be expected.
  
  The one person that demonstrates respect for Parliament each and every day has to be said is Winston Peters. He is immaculately dressed. Ditto with Christopher Luxon and David Seymour. But I’ve had enough of the sorts of rejects from Charity shops that Mahuta wore and the virtue signalling rubbish seen every day on the opposition benches. Do they get a grooming or clothing allowance I wonder?
  
  27 5
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  December 13, 2023 9:25am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Still with the ‘East Polynesians’ nonsense?
    
    4 26
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    December 13, 2023 10:17am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Like Winston’s pinstripe suits? I do, I have one.
    Like Chis Luxon’s tie? Double windsor there – maybe a full windsor.
    
    6 1
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    December 13, 2023 3:32pm
- rouppe
  
  No hats in the debating chamber
  
  10 1
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  December 13, 2023 10:59am
Benedict Yu

I was bemused by this article.

“Who represents Maori?”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/133423630/who-in-parliament-has-the-mandate-to-represent-mori

The journalist has gone to much trouble to figure out which parties Maori folk voted for. Of course, they had to consult an “expert”, a politics academic who made this bizarre suggestion.

“She said the Government should consider what the Opposition had to say, particularly on matters concerning Māori. Many policies were targeted at or would significantly impact Māori, who largely voted for the Opposition.” 🤡

So the Opposition has a mandate to represent Maori folk and so the Government needs to take advice from the opposition on policies that affect Maori. 🤯? Well all policies affect Maori because they are people.

Considering all people of Maori ethnicity as a single group with common interests seems very odd. Clearly this journalist would not have written a story titled “Who has a mandate to represent Chinese people in Parliament?” People would have said it was ridiculous, particularly Chinese people. 🤡

Maybe I am missing something.
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December 13, 2023 8:24am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Should Labour have consulted National on policies that might affect taxpayers?
  
  49 1
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  December 13, 2023 8:27am
  - Jack5
    
    The article Benedict discusses begins thus: “Analysis:” in bold letters.
    
    As if … as if … this somehow deciphers and elevates the twaddle that follows.
    
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    December 13, 2023 9:22am
  - wsk12345
    
    only net taxpayers. Those that are not net taxpayers “belong” to Labour.
    
    5 1
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    December 13, 2023 12:05pm
- Yvette
  
  Treating the Opposition as expert on anything Maori, could save Maori making submissions in the public contributions stage of any bill?
  
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  December 13, 2023 8:45am
- cmm
  
  I am confused… Are Maori a different species that they require different treatment?
  
  54 2
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  December 13, 2023 8:48am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    They act like a different species at times !
    
    12 5
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    December 13, 2023 8:53am
    - sungsamning
      
      The ones who suffer from entitleitis sure do.
      
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      December 13, 2023 4:27pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    Many years ago I was on the Board of a local Polytechnic.
    It was time to appoint a new CEO.
    The Chairwomen wanted to consult Maori first.
    
    We duly had a meeting. A long table with local Maori reps(3 Iwi) on one side, Board members(including 3 Maori) on the other side.
    
    Much waffle from the Board side including the word Maori as a collective Noun. Ie we want to consult Maori.
    
    An aged Kuia waiting for the opportunity to say her piece then spoke.
    
    I well remember her words.
    ///
    Who is this “”maori” that you want to consult.
    Are you thinking of a 19 year old butchers apprentice, one of your students.
    or a middle aged Maori stay at home mum with 5 kids.
    Or someone like me.
    An old women who has lived thru wars and deprivation and who is now basking in her later life?
    All with different life experiences and opinions.
    You are on a fools errand. You cannot consult “Maori”” just some selected Maori people.
    ///
    
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    December 13, 2023 12:28pm
    - rouppe
      
      And did the board members duly grovel, grinning deferentially, saying “yes, mama, yes mama, I’m so sorry mama”
      
      Sick of useless turds like that
      
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      December 13, 2023 3:09pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        So you wanted to tell everyone you are not acting like a mature, reasonable person??
        
        Rodger, message received and understood.
        
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        December 13, 2023 6:58pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      That aged Kuia had her head screwed on! “Maori” are not a homogeneous group of zombies in ideological lockstep.
      
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      December 13, 2023 9:59pm
- pdm
  
  BY Have you seen Lindsay Mitchells post over at the BBH – link follows.
  
  https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/lindsay-mitchell-does-the-m%C4%81ori-party-really-speak-for-all-m%C4%81ori
  
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  December 13, 2023 8:50am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  In another eloquent article, Chris Trotter nails both Meaghers inspirational speech & the rabid Left/TPMs reaction:
  https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/12/11/you-dont-own-us/
  
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  December 13, 2023 8:54am
- mandk
  
  The analysis is interesting, and it shows that the Māori Party does not represent Māori.
  
  A few points:
  1) In the overall party vote, 24.1% of Māori voted for National, while only 16.1% voted TPM.
  2) In the Māori electorates, the party vote was 30% for TPM and 44% for Labour.
  3) TPM has 6 Māori MPs, other parties have 25.
  
  The latter point also demonstrates that there is no need for Māori to have reserved seats in order for them to get elected. The seats should go.
  
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  December 13, 2023 8:59am
- Rusty
  
  @Benedict
  
  If approx 500,000 Nzers identify themselves as Maori in some way then why did only 87,000 give their party vote to the Maori party in October?
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:03am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Support for Te Racists is primarily young dopey ewes (and a small fraction of weathers) who have been indoctrinated in university humanities depts. Similar to Greens. Not particularly a Maori thing.
    
    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/9332-nz-national-voting-intention-august-2023
    
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    December 13, 2023 9:24am
- Paulus
  
  Likewise I’m missing something too !
  I thought that we voted for a new MMP Government and find today that complaints are being made to the Waitangi Tribunal to change what applies to Maori,
  Is this so called Tribunal paramount to to Parliament?
  Media and Maori think so.
  Am I to understand that the Maori Chiefs signed the English version first?
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:06am
  - Ehlana
    
    I don’t think people signed both, and I have heard that English copies were used to collect signatures when space ran out on the Maori translation.
    
    The relevant issue is what the Chiefs understood they were signing up to. As Maori was an oral culture, how many of them would have been able to read English or Maori well? I suspect an oral culture would expect to rely on spoken words, not written ones.
    
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    December 13, 2023 11:54am
- Stellaboxer
  
  BYU you have quite succinctly exposed the racism of the radical progressive, identity politics and the oppressed / oppressor narrative that grows out of neo Marxism and post modernist political theory. Lumping people into single mindedness and common behaviour based on their immutable characteristics is everything that society had been fighting hard to rid ourselves of for over a century and with huge success. Unfortunately the left which can only thrive on disharmony, division and resentment want to undo all such progress lest they completely become irrelevant. You have to wonder though what sort of people would willing subscribe to an ideology that has to work hard to create hatefulness and division in order to achieve such relevance. Marxism creating problems for it to solve since 1894.
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:25am
Maggy Wassilieff

So, Winston Peters is a Colonesian:

Te Pati Māori co-leader Debbie Ngarewa-Packer said he was a “perfect example of a colonesian”.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/12/winston-peters-sprays-insults-in-parliament-initially-refuses-to-answer-question-asked-in-te-reo-m-ori.html

Does that makes me a Colopean?
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December 13, 2023 8:24am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Are members of TMP considered to be ‘Colorectal’? 😀
  
  37 2
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  December 13, 2023 8:36am
  - Scooter
    
    MP, they’re all up their own arses so yes.
    
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    December 13, 2023 8:45am
  - Yvette
    
    Colonrectal
    
    11 3
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    December 13, 2023 8:46am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    They are certain full of shit !
    
    15 1
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    December 13, 2023 8:54am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Packer calling Peters that speaks more about her psychosis than anything else IMO.
  
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  December 13, 2023 8:38am
- John Loveridge
  
  I bet she thought she was extraordinarily smart and clever coming up with that epithet.
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:30am
  - sirknz
    
    I bet she didn’t come up with it and has stolen it off someone on Facebook or Twitter.
    
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    December 13, 2023 10:42am
cmm

Free stuff brings out the worst in people.

There was a time when charity was understood to be there for people who really needed it.

Now far too many see that there is free stuff for the taking and take it regardless of need. Mixing different cultural values is not always an improvement.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/133429001/atrocious-behaviour-charity-shocked-as-people-fight-over-toys-at-christmas-giveaway-event
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December 13, 2023 8:33am
- pdm
  
  cmm – there is an outfit in Hastings called Nourish for Nil. It is a charity that provides food parcels for the `so called’ needy.
  
  It was on an arterial rod we used regularly and I could not believe the number of people in $30,000 plus costing cars and very well dressed (affluent looking) people using it as wedrove past.
  
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  December 13, 2023 8:57am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Ferals
  
  15 2
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  December 13, 2023 9:06am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Some these days think Morals, Ethics, and Manners are cryptocurrencies
    
    12 1
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    December 13, 2023 10:16am
- MCōs
  
  Kids lolly scrambles teach them to fight over free stuff
  Most people, of course, aren’t as crass in later years as those described in the article, but there’s plenty around who think nothing of ripping someone off.
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:26am
- JimBobJoe
  
  So this is just NZers embracing an old Maori custom when stuff was distributed.. The Chiefs took what they wanted from the pile and then everyone else was in, in a free for all.
  
  To criticise this is to be a patronising, colonial, imperialist ….
  
  Note for the slow:
  
  Para 1: is based on Wakefields Adventure in NZ, where E Wakefield describes land purchase settlements being divided up
  
  Para 2: is obviously pure sarcasm : )
  
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  December 13, 2023 10:19am
- sirknz
  
  My thoughts on this are that a lot of these packages are destined for, if not already on Facebook marketplace.
  
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  December 13, 2023 10:46am
NothingLeft

Academic plagiarism and antisemitism OK at Harvard if you are Female Black and Gay:
https://nypost.com/2023/12/12/news/harvard-expected-to-announce-claudine-gay-will-keep-job/
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December 13, 2023 8:34am
- krazykiwi
  
  I predicted yesterday that she would lose her job, and she should. How can Harvard oppose plagiarism when their President is flagrantly guilty of the same?
  
  23 1
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  December 13, 2023 9:19am
  - Matt Long
    
    Because while it’s fine to fire a college president for anti semitism if she’s white, obviously you can’t if she’s Jewish, and more obviously, LGBTQ people of colour and xx chromosomes are incapable of racism or antisemitism because reasons.
    
    13 1
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    December 13, 2023 9:48am
  - kevn
    
    kk… But:
    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/harvard-refuses-fire-gay-issues-statement-her-defense
    
    8 2
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    December 13, 2023 9:55am
- Ghost
  
  She’s not gay. Gay is her last name
  
  8 2
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  December 13, 2023 9:59am
  - NothingLeft
    
    ^^^^captain pedantic bans wordplay.
    
    10 4
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    December 13, 2023 10:03am
    - Ghost
      
      What are you, 5 years old?
      
      1 9
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      December 13, 2023 10:13am
nathie

Something the MSM needs to better understand when reporting on those protesting for Maori issues such as the Te Papa vandalism protest is that in such cases these protesters do not represent Maori.

Instead these protesters represent a personal (or their group) view. Which is no different to commentators here when we put forward our own personal views on topics of interest.

Now the reason why I say this is because Maori, like Pakeha, like any other race, have a variety of views.

So for example we can’t (or the MSM shouldn’t) say that the Maori Party (when they get upset) represents all Maori. In much the same way we do not say that the Labour Party represents the views of all Pakeha (and vice versa – that the National Party doesn’t also).

Also (for protesters or the MSM reporting) to be true to the Maori world, it is the Tribes (and the Chiefs) that represent the views of their (own tribal) people.

In the traditional Maori world you can’t lump all Maori people as being the same – that’s a “Pakeha” concept – because for Maori their identity is their tribe. Each tribe may have a different view on things (sure sometimes they may align, but do not expect that to be the case without finding out)!

I’m pitching this more towards protesters (usually Pakeha, as well as Maori) and the MSM. If they thought about this a bit they might come to the realisation they are actually offending Maoridom by their actions when claiming it is “for Maori”.
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December 13, 2023 8:36am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Milky bars
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:18am
- John Loveridge
  
  There didn’t appear to be a single identifiable Maori in that group of vandals. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
  
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  December 13, 2023 11:00am
kevn

Maggy… I watched that exchange and thought packer and his hatness were there being irritating just for their own egos.
They bring nothing of consequence.
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December 13, 2023 8:53am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Drama queens.
  
  10 2
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  December 13, 2023 9:18am
  - NothingLeft
    
    All they do is impede productive use of house sitting time. Tedious deranged time-wasters playing to their idiot racist fanbase.
    
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    December 13, 2023 10:06am
- John Loveridge
  
  They don’t try to work constructively with anybody. They’re just antagonistic shit-stirrers.
  
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  December 13, 2023 10:59am
Tony Stuart

Another outstanding maiden speech from a National Party MP with significant real world experience, in Tim Costley’s case 23 years of service in the RNZAF:

https://ondemand.parliament.nz/parliament-tv-on-demand/?itemId=236930

I’m a cynical, grumpy old git but even my eyes had sand in them when Tim choked up talking about colleagues killed in action. He then said:

They shall grow not old, but I will not forget them. In my services, I seek to represent all of those who preserve our democracy but don’t always get to practise it: our Defence Force, police, fire, paramedics, every first responder. I pledge to be your voice in this House, and enough of you have my phone number to ensure that I never forget.

A top speech from a top bloke.
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December 13, 2023 8:54am
- wisteria
  
  Cream always rises to the top. Tim is going to go far.
  
  26 2
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  December 13, 2023 9:01am
- leoj
  
  Have met him. Not impressed.
  
  He is in denial about the effectiveness and safety of the vaccine. Another Chris door-to-door jabber Bishop.
  
  4 8
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  December 13, 2023 11:21am
Maggie Pie

‘Blackwatch Tartan Matters’ 😀 😀 😀

https://twitter.com/AnaruDavis/status/1734502393356943522
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December 13, 2023 8:56am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Another drama queen. Looked quite ridiculous.
  
  14 1
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  December 13, 2023 9:20am
  - imalwaysright
    
    The Wiggles with squiggles.
    
    10 0
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    December 13, 2023 10:24am
    - NothingLeft
      
      I’m definitely stealing that.
      
      1 0
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      December 13, 2023 8:03pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  It’s the play-school corner of parliament.
  
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  December 13, 2023 10:06pm
Matt Long

Petrol prices in Whangarei have moved from the dearest in Northland to the cheapest, and cheaper than Auckland, due to the Commerce Commissi… No, the Governm… No. Well what on earth canbrings cheaper prices if not the mighty, clever, powerful government?
Ohhhh, competition, that’s right competition and choice brings cheaper prices and better service.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/whangarei-petrol-prices-drop-as-companies-forced-to-match-competition/I5NG6NZRRBEEXD2EHTO5JUVJDI/
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December 13, 2023 8:56am
Maggy Wassilieff

Perhaps folks at “Stuff” read Kiwiblog:

Hansard has now put up a correct transcription of Winston Peter’s comment about “the last pure Moriori died in 1936″,

and “Stuff” has even corrected its incorrect use of describing 1835 intertribal conflicts as “New Zealand Land Wars”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/133423708/i-often-say-i-am-full-blood-moriori-because-i-am-moriori-and-i-am-full-of-blood–maui-solomon-refutes-winston-peters-claim
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December 13, 2023 9:00am
- Ghost
  
  Damn, miracles do happen
  
  13 1
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  December 13, 2023 9:04am
- Swifty
  
  Well done Maggy.
  
  19 1
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  December 13, 2023 9:05am
- graham
  
  Maybe Stuff is slowly coming to the realisation that the olden days, those simpler days when people respected journalists and looked up to them, when the people accepted what journalists reported without question, and eagerly sought out their musings and opinions as the masses will look to the wise, the great and the good among them for guidance … yeah, those days are long gone (if, in fact, they ever truly existed).
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:57am
  - John Loveridge
    
    I don’t think those days ever truly existed, but certainly older, wiser heads ruled the industry, and particular journalists could engender a level of genuine respect.
    
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    December 13, 2023 10:58am
  - sungsamning
    
    I’m still prepared to give NZF the benefit of the doubt. Credit where its due. I wonder if I’ll still feel this way by Easter?
    
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    December 13, 2023 4:48pm
  - sungsamning
    
    Maybe they had a meeting with their accountant and saw some grim cash flow projections.
    
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    December 13, 2023 4:49pm
Wayne Mapp

Interesting that the PM’s of Australia, Canada and New Zealand have issued a Joint Statement on Israel and Gaza.

It is finely balanced, but with a somewhat different stance to that of the US and the UK.

Whilst they don’t ask for an immediate ceasefire, they do want the pause resumed and support the international efforts toward a sustainable ceasefire. This to include the release of all hostages, and for Hamas to lay down its arms.

They also say there is no role for Hamas in the future governance of Gaza, but then say they support Palestinians rights to self determination and oppose any re-occupation of Gaza or any blockade.

They also state that settlements and settler violence are serious obstacles to a negotiated two state solution.
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December 13, 2023 9:03am
- krazykiwi
  
  This reads like a “Let me go on record with something that is useless, but one in which everyone can find something to agree with” statement.
  
  I’m surprised they didn’t express hope for more unicorns.
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:11am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    I think the fact they did as a Joint Statement from the Prime Ministers of Australia, Canada and New Zealand was the most interesting point. They were clearly making a broader point as three of the Five Eye’s partners, with a somewhat different view to the US and the UK.
    We might see more of this in the future. Perhaps on China and Asia Pacific issues.
    
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    December 13, 2023 9:23am
    - JimBobJoe
      
      Junior partners virtue signalling. It will have impact on the situation or on US/UK policy.
      
      But NZ, Aus and Can will feel good about it – and it plays well with their domestic left wing agitators….
      
      Nothing more than pouring some water on fires at home.
      
      Israel is and should prosecute their offensive as rapidly as possible to minimise casualties but they can not stop after the slaughter Hamas undertook on Oct 7
      
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      December 13, 2023 10:24am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Life of Brian channelled the virtue signalling bullshittery of pointless political pronouncements into a skit:
    https://youtu.be/YawagQ6lLrA?t=21
    
    10 3
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    December 13, 2023 10:10am
- kevn
  
  I’m waiting or the hamas tunnel flushing out programme to begin. A few days ago, pipes were laid from the sea. No further news.
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:59am
  - Bloody Dago
    
    The rat traps around the woolshed always went into the nearest water trough down on the farm. When these flooded tunnels in Gaza give up their human garbage the real removal of Hamarse will be concluded very quickly.
    
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    December 13, 2023 3:21pm
  - kowtow
    
    Here ya go.
    
    I wonder if anyone criticised theEgyptians for doing same not so long ago.
    
    ‘Report: IDF has begun pumping seawater into Hamas tunnels in Gaza
    Wall Street Journal says tactic still at early stage and being evaluated; IDF chief has said it’s ‘a good idea,’ but environmentalists and some US officials have voiced concern’
    
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/report-idf-has-begun-pumping-seawater-into-hamas-tunnels-in-gaza/
    
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    December 13, 2023 3:52pm
krazykiwi

“Four Pillars of Civilization” Under Attack

A few days ago Tucker Carlson did a video about the elite “anti-human death-cult” that’s using “climate change” to reverse the industrial revolution. Returning us to an age where abject poverty — even famine — was a daily reality, while freedom was a distant memory.

During the 15 minute interview, Michael Shellenberger said something that bears comment, that “The pillars of civilization are cheap energy, meritocracy, Law and Order, and free speech. And all four of those pillars are currently under attack.”

This strikes me as a solid list of some of the most important load-bearing walls of civilization that are currently under coordinated attack by the left. And if these pillars go the world we know will be gone.

So how exactly are these pillars holding us up?
[continues]
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December 13, 2023 9:06am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  “__________ Change” We hear that a lot.
  
  “Change” is measured by comparing two values.
  Assuming that one value is the present value, you have to go back in time to select the other value, so you can make a comparison.
  
  The choice of which historical value to choose is critical. Its selection can be biased by what outcome you want.
  
  For example, if today’s peak temperature is 40 degrees, you would look back at the historical records and then select a year that gave a lower (or higher) peak temperature, to bolster your narrative.
  
  If in 1850 the peak temperature was 37 degrees, you could proclaim “warming.” However, if in 1680 there was a hot summer of 43 degrees, you could claim “cooling.”
  
  It’s highly political. The scientists who want to continue to pay their mortgages will find in favor of the ones who fund them. It’s human nature.
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:29am
- MCōs
  
  Speaking of free speech, what’s your view on antisemitism?
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:34am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    It’s irrational to hate a person based on the group you pigeon-hole them into.
    On the other hand, suppressing discussion of certain topics fuels the flames that conspiracy theorists warm themselves on their cold, lonely nights.
    
    As for people with “offensive” opinions, let them speak. I want to know who they are.
    
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    December 13, 2023 10:12am
  - krazykiwi
    
    My view us that free speech and antisemitism are orthogonal.
    
    6 3
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    December 13, 2023 10:22am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Let anti-semites speak. Then we know them and can ridicule their views. Its pretty simple. As soon as that anti-semtic speech overflows in to calls for violence then the rule of law comes in to play…
    
    9 1
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    December 13, 2023 10:26am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Like this guy:
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/301026003/farright-lawmaker-extinguishes-hanukkah-candles-in-polish-parliament
      Who also thinks women should not vote, covid was a hoax, and Ukraine is part of Russia.
      
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      December 13, 2023 11:43am
      - JimBobJoe
        
        Relevance of the Polish parliament to NZ? None, but nice whataboutism from you Mike – about what I expect
        
        3 1
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        December 13, 2023 5:16pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    My view on antisemitism is exactly the same as my view on semitism.
    
    6 1
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    December 13, 2023 10:30am
  - NothingLeft
    
    It’s fine to not like semites (Arab or Jewish) based on their behaviour. Like the murderous barbarity of Hamas and general Middle Eastern Islamic “kill the Jews” (and other infidels) rhetoric and behaviour or the shitty behaviour of Fundamentalist Jewish ‘settlers’ in the west Bank chasing out Palestinians from bits of land they want with complicity of Israeli govt. But to do it based on genetics or appearances or because Jews are notable more successful than average in business and academia is noxious and idiotic
    
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    December 13, 2023 11:07am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      At an individual level.
      
      1 9
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      December 13, 2023 11:39am
      - NothingLeft
        
        Watching Hamas drag and beat since-further tortured and murdered hostages bleeding from their just-raped vaginas or bums through the streets of Gaza on Ovt 7th as Palestinians all looked on cheering and whooping makes me inclined to strongly dislike Gazans on a group level.
        
        13 1
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        December 13, 2023 1:59pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    Or condemning People at a rally saying
    “”from the river to the sea””?
    Asking for a friend.
    
    2 1
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    December 13, 2023 7:06pm
imalwaysright

I hear on the news that there will be protests around the country by people who want the government to tell them to stop smoking !
36 1
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December 13, 2023 9:06am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Gotta feel sorry for the braindead who need someone to tell them what to do.
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:26am
  - gravedodger
    
    I Guess Steve that will be all the people who get up one hour earlier from October to April to “SAVE” daylight???
    
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    December 13, 2023 10:26am
- cmm
  
  Yup, it is pathetic how much people need nanny.
  
  “I have to smoke because the gummint didn’t stop me.”
  
  The real issue is that the proposed age step thing that would make it legal for a 36 yearold to buy smokes but a 35 year old not would make a new revenue stream for criminals.
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:50am
  - Ehlana
    
    Not to mention that if we are okay with laws setting different rights for a younger generation, why not change voting for them too?
    In line with our “progress” from one person, one vote, we could bring in more “world-leading legislation” and have future generations voting under co-governance rules.
    
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    December 13, 2023 1:05pm
- Paulus
  
  As I am one of the very many who do not smoke (for over 50 years) I do not care one fig for those who do – no matter what their ethnicity.
  I would be much happier to see Vaping banned – full stop.
  I believe from what I have read that it is much more dangerous long term than cigarette smoking.
  
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  December 13, 2023 1:39pm
AndyW

Pretty sure nobody will be surprised at this Stuff headline: “Atrocious behaviour’: Charity ‘shocked’ as people fight over toys at Christmas giveaway event”.
Ferals gonna feral.
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December 13, 2023 9:13am
- John Loveridge
  
  I’ve said for ages that modern journalists need to have their adjectives surgically removed. There are no longer any sub-editors left to prevent them making the edition.
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:33am
Maggie Pie

‘Man-Over-The-Fence’ is always up for it 😀

Did Te Maori Pati co-leader Debbie Ngarewa Packer lie in Parliament?

WATCH

https://twitter.com/EerjkMcRae/status/1734504883934617944
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December 13, 2023 9:20am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The left and lies go hand in hand.
  Look at the shit Ardern gave us. So many lies she had to run away.
  Packer is just another who can actually lie by omission.
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:34am
- Clyde
  
  I’m sure Maggie that you will follow up on this and bring it to the attention of the Speaker of the House. Can you possibly believe that a racist co-leader would lie to Parliament? Do bears shit in the forest? Go for it!!
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:34am
- Ghost
  
  Going by how the Maori party reported ‘crimes’ during the election this certainly looks like a ram raid
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:43am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Attempted Debbiecide!
    
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    December 13, 2023 10:42am
- sungsamning
  
  Are frogs waterproof?
  
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  December 13, 2023 4:56pm
Yvette

‘Atrocity’: Te Pāti Māori backs Treaty claim against Govt
“The fight for te reo Māori has been an intergenerational war against a system that has oppressed its use. It was beaten out of our kaumātua, and now the government are using their force and might to strip it out of government organisations.
“Te Pāti Māori backs Ngāi Te Rangi’s decision to file a Waitangi tribunal claim against the atrocity proposed by the anti-Māori coalition government.”
https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/12/12/atrocity-te-pati-maori-backs-treaty-claim-against-govt/

The staggering cost of Maori language looting
And what about funding? Throughtout Te Reo Maiuriora it is reiterated that the government has the obligation to “support” the Maori language – meaning to foot the bill for everything connected with it – and this is where we come to the magical number of $600 million per year (see Review of Maori Language Sector and Strategy 2011 – page 55).
https://www.nzcpr.com/the-great-maori-language-rort/

The closet estimates I can find say $400 – 600 million a year is spent on sustaining and promoting the Maori language, te reo.
That may be about $9.2 billion since the year 2000. Is that an “atrocity”? :o)
________
(By the way, why can non-Maori not appeal or make a submission to the Waitangi Tribunal? – another “atrocity”? :o)
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December 13, 2023 9:26am
- mikenmildagain
  
  The report cited gives a range of $225 million to $600 million in 2009, so it sems clear that no one has any idea of how much it costs to support te reo.
  
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  December 13, 2023 10:24am
  - Yvette
    
    Taking even a low figure of $200 million a year, that still works out around $4 billion in the last couple of decades – $800 for every single member of the Team of Five Million, which is quite an amount to spend on learning any language. A couple of thousand dollars per family? How many “Teach Maori“ books or resources would such expenditure purchase? So what is being done wrong?
    
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    December 13, 2023 11:33am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I’d welcome your clarification of what counts as sustaining and promoting te reo. I think you would only get into the $100 million+ range by counting the cost of all kohanga and kura, for example.
      
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      December 13, 2023 3:53pm
- NothingLeft
  
  50k mostly old fluent speakers, another 150k who can stumble along in basics. $1000 a year for that. Not much bang for buck
  
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  December 13, 2023 8:11pm
Grunter

‘The Great Taking ‘ – A recent book by David Webb sheds new light on the mechanics of the global financial system. If you ever watched ‘The Big Short’ then this will blow your mind! I’ve spent weeks trying to get my head around all of this. Crazy stuff, but I understand enough to now believe there is a problem. Have a read and make up your own mind.

“The Great Taking”, a free book, and video, are linked in Doug Casey’s latest substack (substack link below). Well worth a read if you hold shares, bonds, ETF’s. Webb has supplied endless references which seem to checkout – so I do not sense that this is some made up conspiracy.

https://dougcasey.substack.com/p/intentional-destruction

Webb’s book illustrates, among other things, how changes in the Uniform Commercial Code converted asset ownership into a security entitlement. The “entitlement” designation made personal property a mere contractual claim. The “entitled” person is a “beneficial” owner, but not the legal one. The legal owner is the Central Clearing Parties (CCP’s). That means all of us that ‘own’ shares actually only have ‘entitled’ rights – we don’t actually own the shares.

Gone are the days when you were sent share certificates. Now it’s all digitised and set up in ‘large pools of assets’ which are then leveraged via derivatives – essentially a massive ‘house of cards’ or ponzi setup. Webb says the CCPs themselves are deliberately under-capitalized and designed to fail. When that happens, it’ll be the “secured creditors” who will take control of ALL the underlying collateral. You & I are not the secured creditor, the owner of the CCP is.

Doug Casey also references with links to recent Bloomberg articles and also a recent report from the BIS. Both add substance to Webb’s ‘The Great Taking’.
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December 13, 2023 9:28am
tknorriss

It is hilarious to see all the left wingers shrieking about how dreadful the new government is.

It is as if they can’t cope with the idea that their deluded crayon-coloured world filled with rainbows, cuddles, and teddybears has bean crashed back to a state of reality.
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December 13, 2023 9:31am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Where were these lefties in the last six years?
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:37am
  - John Loveridge
    
    Sitting at home on the dole, Steve. Life was sweet.
    
    14 0
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    December 13, 2023 10:51am
  - Matt Long
    
    In the trough.
    
    10 0
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    December 13, 2023 11:10am
John Loveridge

Can somebody explain to me why Maori, who appear to have detested the presence of colonizing Europeans for the last 200 years, never say anything about the present-day flood of immigrants bulging the nation at its seams?
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December 13, 2023 9:32am
- Yvette
  
  Can somebody explain to me why Maori …
  
  a la Charles Eastman –
  Cheyenne Elder – Inside each of us a good wolf and a bad wolf fight
  Grandson – Which one wins?
  Cheyenne Elder – The one, Grandson, which you feed
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:52am
  - MCōs
    
    I’m not sure I understand what you mean, but I was distracted by Cheyenne Elder addressing his grandson as ‘grandson’. Doesn’t the chap have a name or has he forgotten?
    Why give your child a name and then address them ‘son’?
    
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    December 13, 2023 11:57am
    - graham
      
      Sigh.
      
      You could have replied with a thoughtful comment, an insightful comment, a well-reasoned comment.
      
      Instead you went down this path.
      
      7 2
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      December 13, 2023 12:06pm
      - MCōs
        
        Why break a record?
        
        0 2
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        December 13, 2023 6:58pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump leading in the nomination polls. The other candidates are struggling to face the truth. Nikky Haley says “fine” When a woman says “fine” they are NOT “FINE”
I don’t know why the candidates and the RINO type Republicans don’t just give up.
Trump has “We The People” behind him.

https://unmuzzlednews.com/one-damning-look-from-megyn-kelly-exposed-the-humiliating-truth-underneath-a-big-nikki-haley-deception/?
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December 13, 2023 9:45am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  when a woman says “fine” they are NOT “FINE”
  
  You’re telling us that every woman you’ve met would rather lie than trust you with her actual feelings.
  
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  December 13, 2023 10:17am
  - imalwaysright
    
    When you meet a woman, Dudley, you may understand that Steve is referencing a common nuance of the female character. It is not a negative criticism, merely observation.
    
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    December 13, 2023 10:49am
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      It is indeed common for women to put their own preferences second to the need of placating men. That is because they have millennia of experience of the consequences of displeasing men.
      
      4 3
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      December 13, 2023 12:53pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        have you ever met a woman from 2023?
        
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        December 13, 2023 8:12pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Where is your sense of humour? Did you lend it to Mike or MCos?
    
    It is the same as a woman saying “Do what you want.”
    Don’t ever do what you want or you will wake up dead!
    
    Here are 10 for you Dudley.
    https://www.thegentlemansjournal.com/article/10-things-women-say-what-they-really-mean/
    
    12 2
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    December 13, 2023 11:35am
    - MCōs
      
      At the moment I’m hobbling around on crutches.
      People I don’t know, baristas for example, say to me ‘How are you today?’
      Instead of listing a string of afflictions I just say ‘Fine’
      
      5 1
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      December 13, 2023 12:10pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        I wouldnt be on crutches in a coffee bar. If one of your sticks touches just a drop of skinny latte you will go for a skate and end up back at square one.
        
        5 3
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        December 13, 2023 12:54pm
      - MCōs
        
        About three months ago I crashed to the floor after tripping over my own feet in a cafe and I landed on my bum.
        Took a few weeks to come right
        
        3 0
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        December 13, 2023 4:05pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Get well soon.
        
        0 0
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        December 13, 2023 4:49pm
Jack5

For those who don’t use it already:

Annoyed by media bias?

You can get read information direct from the Government at the “Beehive” site, which has been back up and running for a few weeks after being de-Bolshevized.

https://beehive.govt.nz/
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December 13, 2023 9:54am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Not quite yet….still has Te Kawanatanga o Aotearoa at the base over the NZ Govt…..
  
  8 2
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  December 13, 2023 10:22am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Oh dear.
    
    2 11
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    December 13, 2023 11:22am
  - MCōs
    
    Shock Horror
    
    2 3
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    December 13, 2023 12:11pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Oh dear -” Kia ora ……” – but I suppose that (most) else on the main page is in the now preferred communication language which is one hell of an improvement.
  
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  December 13, 2023 10:28am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    LOL
    
    3 8
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    December 13, 2023 11:23am
slightlyrighty

While I have no idea how we will get to a 6.5% cut in Public Service staff numbers, if there are roles in NZ like this one in the UK, I suggets we start there. Can anyone tranlate this job listing for me??

__________________________________

NHS
Midlands Partnership
NHS Foundation Trust
Director for Lived Experience
Executives / VSM: Executives / VSM
Job overview
We are seeking an interpersonally talented and strategic bridge-builder, to join our Trust board in the exciting new post of Director for Lived
Experience.

The post holder will be responsible for establishing and maintaining the highest levels of Lived Experience Practice and amplifying the voice of those using services within decision-making at all levels of the organisation.

This post will become Trust Recovery Lead, building on nearly a decade of co-produced led development of recovery focused work across our local healthcare system. which has involved the recruitment and development of explicit lived experience roles within the workforce (including
leadership positions): co-production developments/consultation, and our well established, peer-led Wellbeing and Recovery College.

Much learning has taken place during this time, and we currently find ourselves at a new juncture with decisions needed around the next
chapter and the sustainability of this work. The Trust is seeking to structurally embed this work within all that we do. and hence is committing to this Board level Directorship. The aim is for this post to provide leadership for lived experience practice; bring the experiential lens to Trust Board decision-making. and facilitate the cultural changes needed to infuse and propagate best practice around shared decision-making, so it can become evident at everv level from Board to the ward.

_________________________________

I have no idea what this job actually entails, but the salary Range for this is the equivalent of $300K!!!
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December 13, 2023 10:05am
- RoboRob
  
  I suspect that the above might be the UK equivalent of a ‘Diversity and Equity officer’ in the US.
  
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  December 13, 2023 10:23am
- krazykiwi
  
  “While I have no idea how we will get to a 6.5% cut in Public Service staff numbers”
  
  Put me in charge. I’d have a 6.5% reduction by lunchtime. For example: –
  1. Disestablish 80% of roles containing the words “policy analyst”.
  2. Lunch
  3. Disestablish 90% of remaining roles containing the words “policy analyst” where the role pays more than $120k
  4. Plan day-2
  5. Go home to family.
  
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  December 13, 2023 10:37am
  - wsk12345
    
    that’s a little unfair. Some of the policy people actually do useful stuff. Whereas NONE of HR/ PR/ DIE /Treaty Partnership staff do anything useful whatsoever. Surely we can erase them first!
    
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    December 13, 2023 12:21pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      What’s that? 30-40% of public sector?
      
      HR does appear to be the font of most evil in the West. They need to be taken apart – with help from employment law reform to remove all the excesses of personal grievance, performance management etc, eg make jobs all ‘fire at will’ (Employers won’t do it unless there is good reason, hiring is expensive) and pared back to the minimalist function they used to be.
      
      9 1
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      December 13, 2023 12:51pm
      - Paulus
        
        Used to be the Personnel Department until the Women took over wanting to employ those who followed their wishes and to run the Company their way – which is what we are seeing now – and watch women CEOs disagreeing !
        
        3 1
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        December 13, 2023 1:45pm
- John Loveridge
  
  Holy mother of God.
  
  7 2
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  December 13, 2023 10:50am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Welcome John 😀
    
    9 2
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    December 13, 2023 11:37am
- Ghost
  
  https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=Director+for+Lived+Experience+nz&d=4805239801400392&mkt=en-NZ&setlang=en-NZ&w=0PH6oCZGBhWJK9uO-uUlPZ81UQ_Z8Xlk
  
  Had to use cached copy as original is gone
  
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  December 13, 2023 11:07am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    If this job was filled, I hope that whoever gets the role soon has the lived experience of redundancy.
    
    13 1
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    December 13, 2023 11:15am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Yep, it’s a crash and burn job.
      
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      December 13, 2023 12:00pm
- alex Masterley
  
  Word soup carefully prepared by a communications manager…
  
  13 0
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  December 13, 2023 11:15am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Ever noticed how ‘Delta’ and ‘Omicron’ is an anagram for ‘Media Control’?
14 2
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December 13, 2023 10:53am
- MCōs
  
  Those Ancient Greeks were so devious!
  
  8 1
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  December 13, 2023 12:18pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

So then, the world has been saved. The ice will stop melting, the sea will stop rising, the sun will cool and nature will be restored to pre global warming status. So sadly my investment in the low-lying atolls of the Pacific has been scuttled. No more dreams of creating the “Venice” of the South Pacific.
You see, in fifty years time when everything remains the same, there will be celebrations by the next generation at the foresight of their ancestors for fixing something that was never broken. This has to be the most elaborate scam every devised to ensure that the global wealth of developed countries found its way into the pockets of third world dictators, lay-a-abouts, and bludgers.
Earn billions by creating the problem, earn billions by researching a solution to the problem, earn billions by finding a solution to the problem, earn billions monitoring the solution to the problem and then eventually claiming it was money well spent because everything was restored to pre-problem status. That, in a nut shell, is a summary of the life of a global warming research academic.
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December 13, 2023 11:14am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

COP 28.
The real story is that unemployed scientists looking for a reason to be employed have finally convinced the naïve that if a lie is told long enough, it will become the truth. Even though the biggest con job called “global warming” will just be that, a myth and a perennial con job.
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December 13, 2023 11:16am
- Paulus
  
  Real finality of Cop28 Conference is where will the next 100,000 plus person Cop29 be held.
  Must have enough room for the exec jets as this one did not – has enough five 5 Star + hotels, have enough great food, champagne, an enough girls, like this one.
  
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  December 13, 2023 1:49pm
Maggie Pie

In light of earlier posts today….too good not to share 😀

“Neo Maoridom is in it’s death throes”

https://twitter.com/wanganuiorg/status/1734666197680226605
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December 13, 2023 11:35am
- cmm
  
  It won’t die easy.
  
  There’s a massive NGO Maori support industry that must cost us at least $200M a year that depends on Maori failure to keep their funding.
  
  Maori have no chance when the system is as rigged as that.
  
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  December 13, 2023 3:40pm
surfing

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/why-auckland-museum-pulled-the-pin-on-hosting-a-major-harry-potter-exhibition/LHLIHZYCQRBZHBQSF7C7LVE5XE/

Auckland museum management needs to be instantly replaced .

Never have a more woke bunch of clowns and idiots existed.

Canned because a transvestite didn’t like jk Rowling.

Out of 1400 comments on the Melbourne exhibit, 11 were negative. 11 people had say over the other 1389 people!
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December 13, 2023 11:43am
- kowtow
  
  Again values turned on their head .
  
  Public institutions rn for their staff feelings and not for the public’s benefit.
  
  Perverse. And irrational.
  
  15 2
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  December 13, 2023 12:13pm
The Redbaiter

For the record, and for those who might be wondering, I have posted a response to some of the feedback above on my initial post.

However it has apparently been censored/ deleted (without explanation) by the moderation team.

So I’m sorry but I won’t be bothering with any further attempts at responding.

[Mod – debate topics, don’t make it personal]
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December 13, 2023 11:44am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.
The ongoing argument.
“This evidence proves that the Waitangi Tribunal is wrong in their finding that sovereignty was not ceded.”
https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/maori-definitely-ceded-sovereignty/

There is a quiz at the end.
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December 13, 2023 11:50am
slightlyrighty

Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke had her maiden speech in parliament yesterday.

The contrast between her speech and the Speech of James Meagher could not have been more stark.
16 1
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December 13, 2023 12:19pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  I had a chat with some Waharoa Maori last Saturday. I expressed my surprise that Hana-Rawhiti won so convincingly over the incumbent.
  I was told that they needed some youthfulness and Hana-Rawhiti was the choice.
  I did not tell them that their choice was unwise. That sort of comment gets one into trouble.
  
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  December 13, 2023 1:00pm
Maggie Pie

YUGE CONGRATS to Olivia!

Absolutely wonderful having such fab neighbors 😀

https://twitter.com/chrisluxonmp/status/1734708943316988221
13 2
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December 13, 2023 1:13pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Jesus there are some seriously deranged turds in this country…..his duaghter graduates he takes a day away and it is all ‘did you use taxpayer money’,’part time PM already’.
  
  Some people need a serious look in the mirror.
  
  Ardern was MIA for nearly 6 years and not a peep. Says alot abouot the marxist left leaners.
  
  22 2
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  December 13, 2023 1:38pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    There were a large number of insecure women who took any criticism of Ardern and her low-effort low-attendance low-intelligence leadership as de facto attacks upon themselves and their lifestyle choices or just generalised misogyny.
    
    I am sure some of you, like me, got tongue-lashings for suggesting that a nursing mother with the attendant (very real) neo-natal “mommy-brain” should not be trying to do the supposedly most demanding and important juggling-job in the country.
    
    Though I guess Biden and Arden have both proven how cognitive impairment and chronic absenteeism are no longer a barrier to top-office when protected by activist/agenda pushing media happy to run interference for them.
    
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    December 13, 2023 1:56pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    And what about this comment from…. ‘John’
    
    “Must be nice to be rich enough to travel to Melbourne to see your family.
    I can’t afford to vist mine this Xmas”
    
    WHAT A LEFTY LOSER!! And gets over 500 likes 🙁
    
    13 2
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    December 13, 2023 2:02pm
  - Ghost
    
    The good news is luxon isnt pregnant so won’t be taking maternity leave after becoming PM like a previous PM did
    
    10 1
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    December 13, 2023 2:06pm
sungsamning

https://ondemand.parliament.nz/parliament-tv-on-demand/?itemId=236921
Shane Jones in Parliament.
Climate change, SNAs and the like are gone. Property rights are in. Workable water regulations. War on farmers is over. Gas and oil exploration are on again. So is mining. Mining on DOC stewardship land. Energy security. Unicorns and fairy dust out, reality in. Keep up the good work.
16 2
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December 13, 2023 1:23pm
- MCōs
  
  Shane Jones has been in parliament on and off since 2005, but I doubt the populist for sale has struck gold on this forum before.
  
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  December 13, 2023 5:16pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZfF0mEZhg8
Alex Jones Returns to X.
The usual suspects are a tad alarmed that Elon Musk has reinstated his account on X. Some of his ‘conspiracy theories’ have become conspiracy facts. [11:19]
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December 13, 2023 1:23pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  Musk pointed out that Jones will probably get Community Noted into oblivion anyway if he said anything stupid.
  Seems like the best way to deal with that kind of idiot rather than having him and his adherents bubbling away under the surface.
  
  6 2
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  December 13, 2023 3:21pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Have any of these theories become facts?
  9/11 was an inside job, as were the London Bombings, and the Boston marathon bombing.
  The 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami was manmade.
  Hurricane Katrina was a test for FEMA concentration camps.
  Sandy Hook school massacre was a hoax, as were other mass shootings.
  Tornadoes are caused by government with their ‘weather weapons’.
  
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  December 13, 2023 4:36pm
  - mawm
    
    He predicted the attack on the World Trade Centre with airplanes.
    
    2 2
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    December 13, 2023 5:04pm
    - MCōs
      
      By whom?
      
      2 1
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      December 13, 2023 5:17pm
Countrygirl

It’s a bit of a joke Hone Harawera accusing the govt of giving tax cuts to their rich mates by cancelling the smoking idea. A quick Google shows him having a net worth of up to 6 million dollars. Some of us would call that rich.
15 1
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December 13, 2023 2:10pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Good money to be made at the Racism Factory. Hone is in senior management.
  
  17 1
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  December 13, 2023 2:46pm
- MCōs
  
  The ‘up to’ is a bit of a giveaway.
  One site I looked at said ‘up to $5mil, which makes him one of NZ’s richest politicians.’
  
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  December 13, 2023 5:34pm
- Lummox
  
  His offices in Kaitaia were very busy during the covid jabbing season. Signs outside every day telling you how much you could get paid for getting jabbed. I’m not sure of the maximum I saw, but I think it was $150.
  Also, local reports suggest that alternatively, you could pay a fee for a jab, get the appropriate paperwork and data entry, and walk away vaccine free.
  Not surprised he’s rich.
  
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  December 13, 2023 9:29pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Shooting in Las Vegas.
Joe jumps in with “Republican lawmakers must join with Democrats in Congress to ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines”
The shooter used a Tauris 9mm hand gun. He had a mental health issue. The Professor was denied a job at the Uni.
America does not have a gun problem, it has a mental health problem disguised as a gun problem.
Now we know Joe is a sick man – someone wrote that assault weapons piece for him.

https://rightsandfreedomnews.com/2023/12/12/unlv-shooting-leads-biden-to-push-assault-weapons-ban-despite-shooter-using-a-handgun/
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December 13, 2023 2:28pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Why is mental health so much worse in the US than other developed nations? Is it the lack of socialized healthcare?
  
  3 1
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  December 13, 2023 4:25pm
  - mawm
    
    They have the highest consumption of Psychotropic drugs many of which are linked to psychopathic behaviour.
    
    3 1
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    December 13, 2023 5:09pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Then they stop taking them and self medicate
      
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      December 14, 2023 10:02am
  - Matt Long
    
    Does the US have a higher suicide rate than highly socialist New Zealand?
    
    2 1
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    December 13, 2023 5:53pm
surfing

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/christchurch-teen-mark-nagel-who-killed-man-with-martial-arts-style-kick-released-from-jail-given-home-detention/LEJBMVHOBRBONMXNOLC4XJPVTY/

The man who killed a completely innocent person with a martial arts kick to the head has been granted home detention.

Why?

“Justice Dunningham said he had completed a variety of personal development courses while locked up and had undergone counselling.”

Nothing about the rights of the man he KILLED!! Makes me so angry, it could have been me he killed, or my son, or a friend!
13 1
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December 13, 2023 2:30pm
- cmm
  
  Why, coz Dudge Dunning thinks she can hug him straight.
  Poor wee teenager.
  
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  December 13, 2023 3:35pm
Jack5

What is State radio up to, in talks to sell 50ha of land in Wellington and lease it back?

This is a big State asset.

Are the RNZ Lefties able to sell it?

Given that the potential buyer is a tribe, is Wily-Willie Jackson still watching over Radio NZ?

What does it want the cash for?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/504629/ngati-toa-rangatira-in-discussions-with-rnz-over-titahi-bay-land-purchase
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December 13, 2023 2:40pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  RNZ has more land than it needs at the Titahi Bay site.
  
  RNZ has seen its need for land in the area fall along with the number of its transmission masts
  
  It should retain Public ownership of the area still required for broadcast transmissions.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/105881572/radio-nz-tuning-into-property-possibilities-for-poriruas-whitireia-park
  
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  December 13, 2023 3:35pm
  - Jack5
    
    Two aspects:
    
    1. [Radio NZ] … is interested in having the land, which is part of a bigger park “with panoramic views,” re-zoned for residential development.
    
    2. Ngāti Toa, under its treaty settlement, has first right of refusal to buy the land.
    
    Alternatives:
    
    1. Retain State ownership of the land as part of the park.
    
    2. The State retains ownership but offers high-value sections on long-term lease. The block’s soaring value would remain a State asset, a value that could be against debt.
    
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    December 13, 2023 4:46pm
    - Jack5
      
      I’m no property developer, but an acquaintance said that size of a block of land with “fine views” might yield as many as 400 or so high-quality town-house sites.
      
      So maybe we’re talking hundreds of millions of dollars in capital value of land.
      
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      December 13, 2023 5:17pm
cmm

If you used the Auckland Sky Tower as a reference scale, how tall would the CO2 in the atmosphere be?

Would the CO2 be 1m, 10m or 27m tall?

How about just 13cm! Just 5 and a half inches.

400parts per million sounds like a lot, but it is really a tiny amount. Not even half a thousandth.

One thousandth of the sky tower is about 33cm. That’s just over a foot (a typical school ruler). CO2 is less than half that.
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December 13, 2023 3:23pm
Maggie Pie

‘X’ TRENDING

Don’t mean to larf……but 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

https://twitter.com/videospvcagado/status/1734377721201905679
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December 13, 2023 3:36pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  You are laughing at some elderly person on a walking frame being killed or seriously injured by a bull? What is wrong with you?
  
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  December 13, 2023 5:48pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Whats rong with ME??
    Mind yu….I’ve yet to meet a Chinaman with a sense of humor 😀
    
    1 6
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    December 13, 2023 6:03pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I doubt that you have met many.
      
      You are laughing at an elderly person being seriously injured or killed. There is something missing in you.
      
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      December 13, 2023 6:12pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Maggie,
  
  I often uptick you and believe you bring entertaining ideas to this blog.
  
  This one is sad, not funny.
  
  I don’t think that your church group would approve.
  
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  December 13, 2023 6:25pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I suggest that Maggie watches this brilliant debate.
    
    “The Catholic Church is a Force for Good in the World”
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZRcYaAYWg4&t=1888s&ab_channel=IntelligenceSquared
    
    The debate was a massacre 🙂
    
    It is not acceptable to make fun of elderly people being killed. It is a sign of a sociopath. In her case I am confident that she fits such a diagnosis, confirmed by hundreds of comments detached from empathy.
    
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    December 13, 2023 6:48pm
Tom Hunter

Fiction in 2017

Reality in 2023
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December 13, 2023 3:39pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Surprise, surprise….

Auditor-General John Ryan has heavily criticised the $15 billion infrastructure spend-up during the Covid-19 pandemic, saying the previous government should have ensured better transparency and value for money.

The auditor-general said his concerns echoed “similar findings” from his work on similar schemCoes like the Strategic Tourism Assets Protection Programme, the Cost-of-Living Payment, the Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) and the reprioritisation of the PGF.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/504638/nz-upgrade-shovel-ready-programmes-lacked-transparency-and-rigour-auditor-general
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December 13, 2023 3:40pm
- Vinicius
  
  Just been reading the AG’s report.
  “The process was let down by the absence of clear records and a rationale of how and why some decisions were made after an Infrastructure Reference Group provided its report to Ministers.”
  
  https://oag.parliament.nz/2023/infrastructure-decisions/summary.htm
  
  One of the quotes from the RNZ report is:
  Then-prime minister Jacinda Ardern at the time called it a “once in a lifetime opportunity to invest in New Zealand”.
  
  Thanks Jacinda.
  
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  December 13, 2023 4:09pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    If Jacinda had been the head of (say) a large diversified company instead of a country, she would be in prison by now.
    
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    December 13, 2023 5:46pm
    - MCōs
      
      Whatever
      
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      December 13, 2023 6:46pm
cmm

What entitlement.

Some state “employees” say they can’t work with the new government.

Based on history, it’s going to be a National-led government about half the time and Labour the other half. Imagine taking a job where you’re only going to be able to tolerate working 50% of the time!

(for various definitions of “working”).

https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/133439579/get-with-the-programme-or-get-out-disgruntled-public-officials-told
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December 13, 2023 3:53pm
- mandk
  
  If they can’t work with the new government, they are failing in the most basic requirement of public servants.
  
  They should be invited to leave, or be shown the door.
  
  I understand that most supermarkets have openings for trolley collectors.
  
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  December 13, 2023 4:43pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  No evidence that public servants say they can’t work with the new government. I’m not counting political appointees as public servants.
  
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  December 13, 2023 4:54pm
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Having worked in Agencies I can say…. there will be a number of people who wont work well for this government but dont have the honesty or the capability to do the right thing and find a job in the private sector.
    
    Our public service is populated with a large minority absolutely useless, unmotivated time servers or worse political operatives..
    
    You know it and I know… 230 to 300pm every afternoon and do the Post Quiz is a ritual in most Agencies. You dont see that behaviour in private sector…
    
    3 1
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    December 13, 2023 7:10pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  The Chief Executives should issue a stern message. If you cannot work for the elected government, resign now.
  
  6 1
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  December 13, 2023 5:50pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  If you have a government job but now “can’t work” for your employer then you should not continue to get paid.
  
  Don’t all employees sign employment agreements that specify working hours, pay, etc?
  
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  December 13, 2023 6:16pm
JimBobJoe

Bari Weiss and 3 American Academics from the Hoover Institute discuss Anti Semitism on American Campus…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAZw_Elft_Y&ab_channel=HooverInstitution
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December 13, 2023 4:13pm
- JimBobJoe
  
  Soz – two parts. Main part as described plus a short segment on H Kissinger….
  
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  December 13, 2023 5:17pm
Vinicius

The Government has declined KiwiRail’s request for an extra $1.47 billion for portside infrastructure needed for Cook Strait’s new mega-ferries.

NewstalkZB report

“Willis said the Government has declined the request to contribute the significant additional funding.”

The Government remains committed to a resilient safe and reliable Cook Strait connection, but the cost of this project has almost quadrupled since 2018 to approximately $3 billion,” she said.

She (Willis) said only a fifth of the total cost was now associated with the core project of replacing the ageing ferries.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/government-declines-to-fund-cook-strait-mega-ferry-cost-blowout/

Another one of Labour’s gifts to the taxpayers and new government. Harry Truman had the famous sign “The buck stop here” on his desk. Robertson probably had one that said “The bucks start here”.
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December 13, 2023 4:14pm
- rouppe
  
  What I found quite interesting is that KiwiRail’s response to a query on how to make it less costly:
  
  ”KiwiRail advised that there were no options that would recommend to reduce the scale event or the cost of the project.
  
  So they couldn’t even come up with smaller ships that would fit with the existing port infrastructure?
  
  Odd…
  
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  December 13, 2023 4:32pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Ships have already been ordered, haven’t they?
    Looking forward to seeing how KiwiRail builds the new terminals for $1.5 billion less than the estimate.
    
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    December 13, 2023 4:51pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      More than just ordered. The Korean shipyard is scheduled to commence construction in March 2024.
      
      https://www.irex.co.nz/new-ferries
      
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      December 13, 2023 5:13pm
      - rouppe
        
        Except that contract is now going to be cancelled.
        
        Rather than modified.
        
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        December 13, 2023 10:07pm
- virtualmark
  
  We the taxpayer need more information here.
  
  The inter-island ferries are essentially a continuation of State Highway 1. They are a floating bridge between the North and South Islands. As a country we have to have that link, and it is overly-risky for any government to rely on the private sector to maybe perhaps provide that infrastructure.
  
  The contract for the ferries themselves has been signed, long-lead items (like engines) will already have been ordered, and shipyard construction must be about to start soon. So I can’t see how we could back out of that now.
  
  The main cost is the Wellington port infrastructure. Some of the cost overrun is because of the way we now think about seismic engineering. But, AFAIK, much/most of the cost of the Wellington portside infra was because KiwiRail & NZTA wanted to build a new interchange direct on/off SH1 into the Kaiwharawhara site. Qu: Is that still the case? Is that what’s driving the cost overrun?
  
  Separately but related … we need to have a long hard think about how and why the cost to build infrastructure has skyrocketed in the last 10 years. Partly (unnecessary?) extra regulation, partly profit-seeking by contractors, partly … ?
  
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  December 13, 2023 5:03pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Sadly, this is one of those projects that cannot be abandoned. The ships are due to commence construction in March 2024 (according to the Kiwirail website). Can you imagine the penalties if Kiwirail walked away now?
    
    The existing ferries are on their last legs. New Zealand cannot lose that ferry capacity. People talk a lot of nonsense about “strategic assets”. Well this is an example of one.
    
    Hopefully Kiwirail can drastically scale back the land side infrastructure.
    
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    December 13, 2023 5:17pm
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Why would you want a direct SH1 interchange!? Existing Hutt Road access is fine…. just needs clear signposting….
    
    2 0
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    December 13, 2023 5:19pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “…why the cost to build infrastructure has skyrocketed in the last 10 years…
    
    Indeed. The new Christchurch stadium is a ‘fixed price contract’ – $683 million. It will be fascinating to watch. If it comes in on time and on budget, it should be a case study.
    
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    December 13, 2023 5:44pm
  - wsk12345
    
    I went across recently. I dont know what the costs are but the site in Picton is massive – .I was astonished at the sheer scale of the works which someone said is due to the queuing area for the bigger ferries.
    
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    December 13, 2023 7:28pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      why can’t they do it in clifford bay? cheap land and can knock a couple of hours off travel chch-wellington.
      
      1 0
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      December 13, 2023 8:27pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  “The Government remains committed to a resilient safe and reliable Cook Strait connection, but the cost of this project has almost quadrupled since 2018 to approximately $3 billion,” she said.
  
  She (Willis) said only a fifth of the total cost was now associated with the core project of replacing the ageing ferries.”
  
  OMG so the ferries are only $600 million ? 🙁 What the hell is going to cost the remaining $2.4 billion?
  
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  December 13, 2023 5:19pm
  - virtualmark
    
    Benedict, I had some insight into this project in its early days. At that time the plan was to build a whole new interchange on State Highway 1 to allow traffic to directly off the motorway and into the ferry terminal carpark, and then vice-versa coming off the ferry and getting directly on to the motorway heading north.
    
    I suspect that’s still the plan, and given the cost overruns we’ve seen on recent roading contracts like Transmission Gully and Puhoi-to-Warkworth I’m wondering if this is what’s driving much of the increased cost.
    
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    December 13, 2023 5:40pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I have navigated that ferry terminal. It is fine as it is. The sole focus of any work should be that the new ferries can safely dock.
      
      It is like the world has gone mad 🙁
      
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      December 13, 2023 6:52pm
- greybeard
  
  May be a good time to buy shares in the company which owns Bluebridge.
  
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  December 13, 2023 6:25pm
mikenmildagain

Iowa republicans voted to allow religious displays in the state capitol. Worked out well:
https://archive.ph/tWNep
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December 13, 2023 4:22pm
Maggie Pie

“ACT welcomes the resignation of any public officials who can’t bring themselves to implement the programmes outlined by the elected government”

– Todd Stephenson (Health & Public Servive spokesperson)

OH, and don’t let the door hit you in the arse on the way out 😀
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December 13, 2023 4:53pm
Benedict Yu

Every now and then in the car I switch on RNZ for a laugh.

This afternoon in the five minutes I lasted I had this:

1. The attack on the English version of the Treaty at Te Papa was a “creative way to draw attention to the discrepancies between The Treaty and Te Tiriti.”

2. The reason young men are forced to engage in street racing, so causing mayhem is “because the fees that they would need to pay at racing circuits on ‘track days’ are too high.”

That is enough RNZ for 2023 🙁
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December 13, 2023 5:23pm
- MCōs
  
  There was a ten minute discussion on the nuisance of boy racers between two panelists, the host and a rep from federated farmers.
  Someone suggested getting the cars off the roads onto racing circuits although this was thought to be a non starter because the illegal behaviour was part of the attraction.
  This was followed by the host reading out some emails they received from listeners including the comment you highlighted.
  
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  December 13, 2023 6:14pm
Benedict Yu

Listening to the debate in Parliament on the repeal of the ‘fair pay agreements’.

All these Opposition MPs think that a Government can just create higher wages by issuing an order. 🙁 It is farcical. The gap between the minimum wage to the average wage in New Zealand is the lowest for any OECD country. A minimum wage worker working 40 hours per week makes $47,200 per year.

Most minimum wage workers are either doing the job for a fixed period (e.g. a medical student who one day will make $500k plus) or a member of a middle to high income household, e.g. a couple with children – the father is making $100k and the mother works 30 hours per week at the supermarket to make extra money for the family.

People who have chosen to make minimum wage work their lifetime career choice have only themselves to blame.

BTW one of the Labour MPs speaking in the debate (don’t know her name) was too funny. She talked about “our grandchildren” in 30 years asking “Where were you when that nasty Government ended fair pay agreements in 2023?” She promised that the “2026 Labour Government” would restore fair pay agreements.

She is deluded. 30 years from now, there will be no supermarket workers. Your groceries will be scanned by robots who will debit your bank account. The only staff in supermarkets will be 2 or 3 security guards, probably armed with tasers, to stop people stealing. 40 years from now it will probably be robot security guards.
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December 13, 2023 5:35pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Is that you down ticking mikenmildagain? 🙂 🙂
  
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  December 13, 2023 5:45pm
  - Swifty
    
    Mike has said his routine is to automatically downtick every comment to record the fact that he’s seen it, and so when he comes back on to KB he can easily discern what comments are new.
    
    Says a lot about him if you ask me.
    
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    December 13, 2023 6:09pm
    - Ghost
      
      Must confuse the crap out of him when he sees his own comments.
      
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      December 13, 2023 6:12pm
- Swifty
  
  You’re exactly right Benedict.
  
  I’ve just been floored by the total naivety, the total ignorance, the gross stupidity shown by Labour, Green and TPM MPs in the last few days over the FPA repeal.
  
  They act and talk as though employers and business owners are just sitting on great sacks of money that they are deliberately and nastily withholding from their staff and that the state forcing employers to stump up far more in staff wages, for no increase in productivity, will have no negative consequences whatsoever.
  
  They paint themselves, of course, as the cavalry riding to the rescue.
  
  These people are the pits – they will say anything, however irresponsible, if they think it will win them some political advantage.
  
  They are being either wilfully, dangerously irresponsible or deliberately deceitful. It has to be one or the other.
  
  (Just as an aside, this issue is one of very, very few that actually makes me wish I was a parliamentarian right now, answering their questions on the FPA repeal. Good I’d love to get at them. Show everyone the lightweights these people are. No mercy).
  
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  December 13, 2023 5:53pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Won’t take that long for most adults to be unemployed. Think 10 years (Assuming average human-beating AGI in next 2-3years, superintelligence a few months after that).
  
  Fragile economies are going to be completely upended by AI job replacement. Nobody has a realistic idea about how to keep all the unemployed from revolting if the fundamental underpinning social contract that has created human civilisation of exchanging labour for income/assets is ended.
  – Why should people (or really why would people) put up with being at the bottom of the social heap when we are all unemployed?
  – How will we determine who gets to live in the nice big Takapuna beach house vs the ex-motel unit in Otara?
  – I expect the rich will be made un-rich in very short order by unhappy majorities robbed of any chance to lift themselves through work, and as happens in most times of revolution we will almost certainly quickly end up with in a repressive police state under despotic rule.
  
  Latest Tesla Bot:
  https://twitter.com/i/status/1734756150137225501
  
  Really the only chance we have of not breaking human society is banning AI job replacement, perhaps confining them to grotter repetitive jobs like cleaning, gardening etc, and never letting the pool of unemployed grown too large. Maybe shortening working days or working weeks if that is needed.
  
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  December 13, 2023 6:11pm
Swifty

One of the main reasons I detest the recently vanquished Labour government was their determination to roll around in the mud and weeds on small matters, bossing is all around on the small stuff, while utterly failing to address the big issues we faced as a nation:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/504654/current-account-deficit-widens-to-30-point-6b-far-too-out-of-balance-economist

I’m left with the overwhelming impression that either:

1. This sort of stuff was just beyond them – they didn’t have people with the knowledge, experience, ability nor will to lead the charge on matters of economic responsibility, or

2. Leading the charge, and living and breathing economic responsibility, threatened what they were doing elsewhere which was to act and talk as though money was no object, there’s plenty where that came from, and that you can spend and spend as a government with no downstream implications or consequences.

If you have a hard-core of Ministers preaching financial discipline then it has the possibility of giving the lie to what to are doing elsewhere and people in the street would wake up to Labour’s irresponsibility – so they just left those areas (trade imbalances, current account deficits, borrowing explosions etc) untalked about.

Just contrast the millions and millions of person hours over the last six years we spent arguing about matters of sexuality, diversity, race matters etc while the big ticket items remained largely unmentioned and unattended to; while Rome burned.

Labour reached new heights of irresponsibility.
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December 13, 2023 5:37pm
nathie

Sad news cricket fans, fast bowler Derek Stirling has passed away at the age of 62.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/133445756/former-new-zealand-fast-bowler-derek-stirling-dies-aged-62

IIRC back to the 1980’s when the NZ cricket team toured Pakistan they had to drink soft drinks as the water supply at the time wasn’t safe to drink.

https://wisden.com/players/derek-stirling
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December 13, 2023 6:09pm
- MCōs
  
  I remember Derek Stirling from years ago.
  His career started promisingly, but went nowhere
  
  The Pakistan women’s cricket team were recently in Queenstown
  Couldn’t drink the water there for awhile too.
  
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  December 13, 2023 6:38pm
RF

A mate has taken a tumble and during rehab will require the use of a motorised scooter. Maybe a long term situation.

He is looking at a Motor Scoot. Two rear wheels and a single front. Must be light enough to fit into a medium size car.

I have never heard of these.

Comments – good / bad
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December 13, 2023 8:03pm
Swifty

Shane Jones in full flight:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_nj46a8IRl8

I wish more Nat MPs would talk like this.
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December 13, 2023 8:05pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Holy Moly! So much sense. So little BS. Keep this up NZF and you will be the next majority govt.
  
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  December 13, 2023 10:57pm

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