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December 5, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 05 December 2023

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General Debate

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Kiwiguy

The protests today remind of this old adage:
If you put 100 red ants, and 100 black ants in a jar together, nothing will happen.
But if someone shakes the jar, the ants will start fighting each other, each believing the other to be the enemy.
But the real enemy is the person who shook the jar.
ARDERN ET AL SHOOK THE NZ JAR.
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December 5, 2023 8:02am
- Sector 7g
  
  Protest?
  This is an insurrection. A mostly peaceful insurrection.
  
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  December 5, 2023 10:21am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Ardern was so desperate to hold onto power she promised TPM whatever they wanted. Now the adults are in the room, the kids are throwing their toys out of the cot.
  
  Treat them accordingly. Their rhetoric is bs. The vast majority of NZers see it for what it is, including Maori. They are an embarrassment to their people.
  
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  December 5, 2023 11:03am
  - mawm
    
    “When people get used to preferential treatment, equal treatment seems like discrimination.” – Thomas Sowell.
    
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    December 5, 2023 11:14am
- Ra Henare
  
  I used to dismiss the news items which were designed to get headlines for no other reason than to get headlines. Todays Maori protest is such an event.
  
  I used the idea that todays news is tomorrows fish and chip paper.
  
  But now I am buggered on 2 fronts.
  1. In the digital world, news lasts for every in the bowels of Google.
  2. Newspaper is no longer used for wrapping fish and chips.
  
  I guess I will have to resort to t he page down key 🙁
  
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  December 5, 2023 3:16pm
- Southern Raider
  
  Just listening to Ken Mair on the radio. We are facing major issues as a nation.
  
  He openly stated they targeted a Police station and took over the reception area and then threatened to the local court to close down for the day.
  
  All apparently because the cops and judiciary have targeted Māori and part of colonialist history which stole all of Ken’s lands
  
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  December 5, 2023 5:41pm
  - DimChappie
    
    Yes it is out of order from the start. Ken Mair is planning a bigger action on Dec 20 using the same bully boy tactics. Will police show up in force or will he get to control the town again?
    
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    December 5, 2023 6:40pm
    - Southern Raider
      
      And Rawiri called King Charles a “scab” in Parliament and gets away with it
      
      The Tea Party will be pushing for a separate Māori state by end of this electoral term
      
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      December 5, 2023 6:54pm
      - Ghost
        
        I don’t think they will get away with it, and once the house is sitting the speaker will make them redo it.
        
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        December 5, 2023 7:02pm
  - KiwiSapper
    
    “…..colonialist history which stole all of Ken’s lands…’
    
    Individual maori in the 1800’s never had an “owning land” attitude. They just occupied it, either peacefully, by first on the scene or by war, murder and cannibalism.
    Then the Chief’s sold / traded their land, or their neighbour’s to the colonial arrivals and custard was invented.
    
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    December 5, 2023 6:59pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Ken Mair doesn’t sound to me like a traditional Maori name. Perhaps he is confused.
    
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    December 5, 2023 8:07pm
rouppe

Joel Maxwell pens a piece asking if you could possibly be in a relationship with someone who won’t even say the word “Aotearoa”.

Of course, there’s no guarantee that you can find love and a successful relationship even if your beliefs align. But really, who wants to spend their life with someone stuck in some weird twilight world of resentment?

Ummm. That’s the pot calling the kettle black.

What the Maori Party has organised today is completely born out of resentment. What Joel regularly pens is filled with resentment that more people don’t fall into line with his views.

It seems as though supporters of the Maori Party are as ideologically blind as those they accuse.
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December 5, 2023 8:03am
- Kiwiguy
  
  I cannot believe anyone bothers to print Joel Maxwell’s ignorant, vacuous, and just generally useless opinion pieces. Have we really sunk so low that this garbage and tripe gets published?
  It’s an insult to basic intelligence.
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:20am
- plc
  
  If you wanted the literal definition of “irony”, his column is it.
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:23am
  - jedmo
    
    Love Steve Buscemi in Con Air: “define irony, a bunch of idiots dancing on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash “.
    
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    December 5, 2023 10:31am
- Yabster
  
  why read it?- we all know his thoughts- why put a link to fucking stuff- when are people going to get that they are never going to change- in fact the msm seem hell bent on attacking the Govt (not in the past six years) -its just starting…
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:40am
  - Miritu
    
    All the quoting and linking to legacy media content (no matter how scathing you may be of it) allows them to shape the debate and distract you from far more important issues. There are thousands of far superior content providers drawing attention to serious matters who get less attention as a result.
    
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    December 5, 2023 12:26pm
- Damocles11
  
  The Leftist rag ‘The New Zealand Herald’ closes comments on Facebook for all its articles on the separatist protests. Why? To suppress free speech, to suppress majority views, to suppress those wishing to speak on behalf of unity rather than separatism & division. The media is the enemy.
  
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  December 5, 2023 10:09am
  - Miritu
    
    If media is the enemy, then why are you reading their stuff?
    
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    December 5, 2023 12:29pm
    - ISeeRed
      
      It gets so tiresome, doesn’t it? Like someone with an abusive partner who never leaves, just complains non-stop.
      
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      December 5, 2023 1:08pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Vigilance .
      Its the price of freedom
      
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      December 5, 2023 1:50pm
    - Jack5
      
      Miritu’s … If media is the enemy, then why are you reading their stuff?
      
      1. To watch the end of an era. Like watching a steam locomotive in a theme park.
      
      2. To read or hear the chatter and self-talk of the Left.
      
      3. To check what State subsidies, ultimately from us taxpayers, yield from the chattering class.
      
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      December 5, 2023 3:08pm
    - Damocles11
      
      Who says that if I observe their behaviour on Facebook it means I read their article? Some people need to engage their thought processes before commenting.
      
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      December 5, 2023 3:36pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  This is not about race, this is just another example of the moronic woke looking for another ‘thing’ to put on their FB page.
  
  It’s very revealing.
  
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  December 5, 2023 11:04am
- BeaB
  
  And then just imagine the brooding anger that leads your baby being treated so violently it dies a painful death. I agree with this writer. Run if you meet a man so opposed to your beliefs and values that he could resort to this kind of cruelty and crime.
  
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  December 5, 2023 11:27am
Chuck Bird

I bet the residents of London would not mind a little global warming.
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December 5, 2023 8:03am
- john1234
  
  The media refused to point out the irony of the COP28 summit going on while Germany and the UK were freezing under blankets of snow that one would traditionally expect to see in winter up there.
  
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  December 5, 2023 8:18am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    You are conflating weather and climate.
    
    weather: “the state of the atmosphere at a particular place and time as regards heat, cloudiness, dryness, sunshine, wind, rain, etc.
    
    Climate: “the weather conditions prevailing in an area in general or over a long period, usually for a minimum of 30 years.”
    
    Totally different things.
    
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    December 5, 2023 9:38am
    - Stellaboxer
      
      BYU except when it’s exceptionally hot then the media and UN go into hysterics claiming we’re in global boiling now. When it’s exceptionally cold not so much but flooding is good they’ll report on that as evidence as to why we need to be frightened and dismantle capitalism.
      
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      December 5, 2023 10:18am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Correct BY,
      Now we all need NIWA, NASA, NOAA and worst of all UN Meterological Organisation too differentiate between Meteorology and Climate.
      The nonsense spouted by Niwa, Is practically word for word of NOAA. Even include US forecaster’s. Cut and paste.
      Mean time , No one is keeping there eye on the ball in actually forecasting weather events.
      
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      December 5, 2023 10:57am
      - imalwaysright
        
        I think NIWA are spending $30,000,000 on a weather computer rather than use the free data supplied by the vastly superior IBM service.
        These wankers are pissing away public money to try to make themselves relevant .
        They were rather irrelevant earlier this year when they failed to notice billions of tons of rainwater heading straight for Auckland.
        That didn’t end well, did it NIWA. One fucking job!
        I saw it on my Windy app (free) three days before it arrived .
        
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        December 5, 2023 1:58pm
    - john1234
      
      “You are conflating weather and climate.”
      No I am not. I am pointing out irony.
      Climate is made out of weather.
      The climate zealots always bang on about hot weather despite “weather not being climate”.
      
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      December 5, 2023 11:05am
  - Bullion
    
    It is winter and increased levels of precipitation is one impact of climate change
    
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    December 5, 2023 4:15pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I could do with some here in Gizzy…
  
  I’ve got two thermal tops on, woolly sox, and the heater at full blast… 14degC outside.
  
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  December 5, 2023 8:23am
  - hookerphil
    
    14 degrees – Wow – guess you never travel to the South Island in winter then.
    
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    December 5, 2023 9:11am
    - Random T Person
      
      The SI is too cold for civilized people.
      
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      December 5, 2023 10:22am
      - What's the Frequency, Kenneth?
        
        Is the inverse also true in summer? 🤣
        
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        December 5, 2023 11:36am
  - Ghost
    
    Swap you, 12 degrees in timaru. I’m pretty sure we were promised a hot dry spring. Oh well maybe the hot dry summer they’ve also promised will come
    
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    December 5, 2023 10:26am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Looks like El Nino has been emasculated by La Nina. 😆
      
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      December 5, 2023 10:39am
    - MCōs
      
      Wasn’t it 30° there a couple of days ago?
      My mother, who came out to NZ from Shropshire in 1945, never fired up the log burner at 12°
      
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      December 5, 2023 11:11am
      - Ghost
        
        I think we’ve had two or three nice days. Better warm up soon, my pumpkin and watermelon haven’t grown
        
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        December 5, 2023 11:25am
  - pdm
    
    You beat our Place in Hastings Maggy.
    
    13 degrees at 11.34am.
    
    Drizzling with rain all morning.
    
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    December 5, 2023 11:34am
- Paulus
  
  I remember with my new wife being “stuck” in a pub in north London as the snow came down on Christmas Eve.
  Everybody sang real Christmas carols through out the evening and we staggered home not too far away.
  Wonderful memory.
  
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  December 5, 2023 10:38am
Southern Raider

Couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery. Not sure where there mass protests are in Auckland, or is it too early for some people to get out of bed for peak commuter time?

Media also talking up the scale. News said “protesters on upper queen street over bridge”. As I drove under I was expecting hundreds with banners and flags, but no just one random guy by himself

The Tea Party leaders need to be charged with economic terrorism. Even if the protest is ineffectual businesses across the North Island would have cancelled meetings, jobs etc due to the threat.

Muppets
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December 5, 2023 8:06am
- Maggie's partner
  
  it’s a storm in a Ti cup
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:46am
Vinicius

Here’s what happened at the last opening of Parliament (the 53rd). Pity Mallard was ever voted in as Speaker.

Note Debbie Ngarewa-Packer’s top hat!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/from-a-top-hat-to-an-oath-race-the-53rd-parliament-is-sworn-in/P4S3WQLB36AUXLZXGSVKLOO2LY/
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December 5, 2023 8:06am
- 7kiwi11
  
  Nothing but attention seekers.
  
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  December 5, 2023 10:24am
  - john1234
    
    Flagrant cultural appropriation by both TPM “leaders”.
    
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    December 5, 2023 11:07am
Max Mansplain

I predict a mostly peaceful protest with no insurrection at all.
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December 5, 2023 8:06am
Bridgenag

The Blokes at Bowls were discussing butter in the weekend. Butter too hard, so the expensive spreadable butter is then bought at twice the price. Alot of Australian Meadowlea pushed in the Australian Countdown supermarkets was noted. So in the interest of science I purchased the dearer Anchor butter [$8 versus $5 ] What did I find….well for a start it was spreadable after a few minutes out of the fridge and did not spit water when used to fry my breakfast egg. Apparently they are allowed a certain amount of water which explains the hardness and spitting. Totally prepared to buy only NZ better quality butter now. Still think the price is ridiculous. Little side observation….watch the cheese prices, per gm the smaller packets, even on special are dearer than paying $20 a kilo for cheddar which melts properly unlike the no doubt water filled others.
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December 5, 2023 8:07am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  A bacon curer told me years ago, before bottled water came on the market, that the best way to make money is to sell water.
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:21am
  - waikatosinger
    
    Meh. Ice cream makers sell air.
    
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    December 5, 2023 11:26am
Maggie Pie

O.M.G. Just how pathetically childish can ‘The Horrid’ get?

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1731735344029003868

@ Shane Curry: ‘We won. You lost. Eat sh!t’
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December 5, 2023 8:09am
- Vinicius
  
  Since wide swathe’s of the media were outed by Peters over the PIJF and being in the tank for the left they’re aren’t now even trying to hide their bias any longer.
  
  All the usual suspects are making a meal over these protests.
  
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  December 5, 2023 8:19am
- PeeJay
  
  In a way, this is excellent.
  
  This allows the government to set an example – find whoever leaked this paper and fire them with immediate effect. Honest debate is welcome, ministers should receive all views, positive and negative, but anyone leaking material needs to be goneburger. Staffer, public service, politician.
  
  Set the discipline from the start.
  
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  December 5, 2023 8:30am
  - Keith White
    
    I thought the New Rule was “leak confidential govt info, get arrested and put in a cell”. Hey Coster, get a move on.
    
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    December 5, 2023 9:38am
  - Paulus
    
    So the Public Service are neutral – yea Labour and the Media Parties !
    
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    December 5, 2023 10:40am
- peterwn
  
  Nothing to see here really. Just a predictable mundane Cabinet paper about a matter that everyone knew about anyway. This Cabinet paper is just the initial formal step to get the ball rolling for putting the proposed legislation on the list and enabling Parliamentary Counsel to start drafting. The leak is irritating but that is about all. Nothing there to ‘rock’ the government. The only response needed is a discreet investigation to determine who the ‘mole’ might be. There may be nothing conclusive at this stage but this is of no great moment. The government’s enemies would love to see the Chris Luxon and co driven into a state of paranoia over this, and Chris and co will be wise enough not to take the bait.
  As far as the health data leak is concerned it was a serious breach of trust and fidelity by a trusted employee. The CEO has handled this in a rapid and appropriate manner. The individual concerned is facing a serious criminal charge over this (and must be feeling severely shaken and shattered by this as he reflects on things in his prison cell – he would never have believed that this would have been a consequence). Again the Government should not be coerced into getting its knickers in a twist over this, this would merely distract the Government from more important tasks. Labour is welcome to waste Parliamentary questions and general debate time on this – they then have fewer questions and less debate time on more important matters.
  
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  December 5, 2023 8:39am
  - rouppe
    
    Yes but if you leave an irritation in place it turns into a scab
    
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    December 5, 2023 9:14am
    - peterwn
      
      Agreed, but just take things quietly, a full blown ‘witch hunt’ is distracting and is unlikely to yield immediate results. I remember a guy at my old workplace was writing anonymous letters to the Minister about alleged issues. He was suspected and they quietly engaged a handwriting expert to check the letters against a known sample of his writing. When he was confronted there was a race between him and his boss to HR, his boss wanted him sacked before he could resign. Everyone thought it was rather hilarious.
      
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      December 5, 2023 9:53am
  - jedmo
    
    At least the Te Whatu Whatever, CEO, Margie Apa, seems to readily front up to media, and give articulate responses. Unlike most departments with CEOs who hide behind press releases.
    
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    December 5, 2023 10:40am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Can you tell me what she said that was articulate?
      
      Forget the circus around the whistleblower or the ‘technicalities’ of what he’s done wrong to deserve this treatment.
      We know the data exists. We know there is some missing. VFF have put up a post that goes some way to potentially explain this. It makes perfect sense.
      
      https://www.voicesforfreedom.co.nz/blog/missing-data-explained/
      
      We’ve been gaslit and lied to for almost 4 years. How about they release ALL of the data, anonymised, and make it available for independent experts to analyse. Within a few days we will all know for certain whether the jabs were ‘safe and effective’ or whether they are a little dangerous, or a lot dangerous.
      
      If they’re so sure that they are safe as they are STILL claiming, then surely this is their ‘gotcha’ moment and all us ‘cookers’ will be suitably humbled and apologising profusely?
      
      Release the data. Stop the speculation. Oh, and stop acting like Nazi fascists when someone challenges your narrative.
      
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      December 5, 2023 12:33pm
      - peterwn
        
        Patience, patience. Shane Reti has hardly got his feet under the desk. However his stance may not be what some people here would like to hear.
        
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        December 5, 2023 1:07pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        peterwn – I wasn’t criticising Reti, not yet. I was pointing out that Margie Apa didn’t ‘front up’. She spoke to journos, but she didn’t talk about the actual data.
        
        You know the weirdest thing of all? Not one of the msm shills asked about the relevance of the data. They know they are as complicit as those health officials for what went down over the las few years.
        I think this is the one that is going to see this thing cracked wide open. It’s happening in other countries too. Revelations about jab harms and deaths, dodgy contracts, missing/corrupt clinical trial data.
        It’s hard to believe what has gone on over the last 4 years.
        
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        December 5, 2023 2:58pm
slightlyrighty

“The Natives are restless…”
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December 5, 2023 8:12am
- Cassandra
  
  Actually it’s “The natives are revolting”. And they are.
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:18am
  - 7kiwi11
    
    Actually the natives should be at work, to provide for their Whanau and set an example for their mokopuna.
    
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    December 5, 2023 10:28am
    - Paulus
      
      Why when the Taxpayer continues to pay them for doing nothing ?
      
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      December 5, 2023 10:43am
    - Damocles11
      
      Mokopuna like ‘baby Ruthless’ are not being protected.
      
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      December 5, 2023 3:38pm
- Paulus
  
  Some Natives and the Media Party are restless – yea !
  
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  December 5, 2023 10:42am
john1234

Adoring media reporting breathlessly on the TPM protests.
A party leader in the USA lost an election, didn’t like it and fired up a protest.
A party’s leaders in NZ lost an election, didn’t like it and fired up a protest.

Notice a slight difference in the tone of the reporting?
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December 5, 2023 8:17am
Lance

TV3 breakfast news reporting a 10 minute Hikoi in Wellington
You can’t make this shit up. Sounds like a McPhail and Gadsby sketch
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December 5, 2023 8:17am
Benedict Yu

How do hundreds of people across the North Island manage to down tools from their jobs on a Tuesday morning to march on parliament?

https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/12/05/our-people-are-ready-to-fight-rawiri-waititi-on-protests/

I question the claim that 20 percent of the population are outraged and insulted by the new government. More like 2 percent. 🤡
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December 5, 2023 8:21am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Jobs…
  
  ???
  ¿qué?
  무엇?
  he aha?
  
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  December 5, 2023 8:29am
- Paulus
  
  I would be surprised if many of the marchers actually have jobs when the Social Welfare Taxpayer Trough looks after them.
  One of our great problems to solve
  
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  December 5, 2023 8:30am
- igm
  
  See there are a lot of children, unemployables, and berneficiaries . . . what a line-up of bludgers. Suppose they are being fed KFC and McDonalds, via NZ taxpayers as well.
  
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  December 5, 2023 8:31am
  - kowtow
    
    I wonder how many of the “marchers” actually don’t exist , as far as the census goes anyway.
    
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    December 5, 2023 9:24am
  - GJM
    
    From the River to the KFC
    
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    December 5, 2023 10:28am
- JerJer
  
  I’d say less. The protests look small and pathetic. They are smaller that the kids climate protest, which is probably correct as these guys are less organised and intelligent that kids.
  
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  December 5, 2023 8:35am
  - Vinicius
    
    Going by the numbers Stuff are breathlessly quoting and doing a simply calculation a vast majority (way over 95%) don’t give a rats buttocks about these protests.
    
    The cops are reporting that most of the protesters around NZ have dispersed….
    
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    December 5, 2023 9:50am
  - lifesgood
    
    Yes, but, but, climate protesting kids aren’t intelligent either.
    
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    December 5, 2023 9:55am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  You don’t down tools at Universities and Public Sector jobs.
  Meanwhile the Net Taxpayer continues to pay for your lazy lifestyle.
  
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  December 5, 2023 8:43am
  - Keith White
    
    “Meanwhile the Net Taxpayer continues to be extorted to fund your feral, criminal and unproductive lifestyle.”
    
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    December 5, 2023 9:39am
- Swifty
  
  This is a bit of a low blow from me but I say if you plucked a random 10 marchers from any group protesting today and individually asked them to walk you through the issues, they would be completely and utterly unable to do it.
  
  At best it would just be an attempt to repeat some of Waititi’s emotional assertions and wild claims with absolutely no substance behind them, at worst it would be just racist, violent rhetoric masquerading as an argument. Feelings instead of rationale.
  
  People who place their trust, lives and futures in the hands of Maori Party politicians are in for a rude awakening in my sincere view. It’s one thing to be a serial complainer, to be an opposer, to highlight ‘injustices’ – it’s quite another to be a calm, rational leader capable of making the hard calls and compromises necessary in running a country.
  
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  December 5, 2023 8:56am
  - Keith White
    
    The reason low blows are generally frowned upon is they are often very effective, and “one and done.”
    
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    December 5, 2023 9:40am
- lastmanstanding
  
  The Maori Party and the Green Party are the enemy of every free thinking citizen. But I hope they continue to act like the enemy. They will alienate even more free thinking citizens. Let them show their support for Terrorists and Terror. Let them show their support for Communism. They are but a blot on the landscape. A nothing. A sad hate filled minority.
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:10am
- Vinicius
  
  Based on media reports of numbers of protesters at events around NZ it looks like over 99% of Kiwis aren’t out protesting but are just getting on with their daily lives.
  
  No doubt the media will report that.
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:17am
- Ultima
  
  The protest will be just like another gang funeral, except with no Harleys.
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:52am
- Swifty
  
  0.2.
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:57am
slightlyrighty

In the late 90’s, I was travelling in South Africa, and was in a mall in Johannesburg. I saw the mall security guards, in tandem, with bulletproof vests and armed with Heckler and Koch MP5 Sub-Machine guns.

I remember thinking that I was glad that we did not see this in our country, and that our security guards had no more than a walkie Talkie and a red polo shirt with “SECURITY” written on it.

The other day I went to Queensgate and saw that the security Guards are now wearing Stab Proof vests. I was a bit taken aback by this, as it illustrated to me the ongoing effects of the “progressive” government that we have just voted out.

Like the apochriphil frog in a cold pot of water, brought to the boil, I get the feeling that the heat is rising, and not in a good way.
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December 5, 2023 8:22am
- Random T Person
  
  That is a heroic spelling of apocryphal mate 😀 haha. Some dude tried that experiment, but the frogs bail. Point stands, though.
  
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  December 5, 2023 10:38am
- Bullion
  
  The relative lack of social investment in South Africa is certainly something to be wary of.
  
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  December 5, 2023 4:18pm
Scott

This story appears to be a big juicy important story that any self respecting newspaper would latch on to –
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/12/hero-health-worker-turned-whistleblower-faces-court-after/
However it was obviously not of concern to the good editors of stuff for I can find no mention of it on the stuff website this morning? Funny that. 😎
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December 5, 2023 8:26am
- grumpy
  
  You meed to look offshore for the story. Bought snd paid media and all that…..
  
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  December 5, 2023 10:55am
Stellaboxer

The outraged are the troughers and professional victims. Ignore them.
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December 5, 2023 8:28am
Hugh Jarse

The leaking of that Cabinet paper shows not poor process by the coalition as there will always be different viewpoints expressed, but the fact that Labour have sprinkled saboteurs amongst the 15,000 extra public servants they employed. A small taste of what they will have to put up with from their Wellington based employees.

They and the unions need to remember that we have just had a democratic election which voted in the current coalition. The majority of the voting public agreed with well published policies of those various parties.

Clearly the unions, Maori Party and the media don’t want to be held to a democratic process, they much prefer the rule of the law breaker and bullies stamping their feet and disrupting the public.
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December 5, 2023 8:29am
Maggie's partner

Where’s Jacinda when we need her? She’d have sent in the stormtroopers by now
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December 5, 2023 8:32am
Maggie Pie

A bestie tweets….

‘Raiding the Te-Whatu-Ora whistleblower may not end well for ex PM Ardern and her Labour cronies. He’s likely to be on every major podcast telling the world how dangerous Covid vaccines really are’.

https://twitter.com/JimFergusonUK/status/1731663915858178403
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December 5, 2023 8:34am
- kevn
  
  Can anyone tell me why Plunkett is such a plonker when discussing the jab issue? He seems completely stuck in a corner. There is data worldwide saying much the same thing as the latest here in NZ. Plunkett is in constant denial.
  
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  December 5, 2023 8:41am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    There is good data showing excess deaths. I have yet to see any good analysis supporting the claim that the vaccines caused all of these excess deaths.
    
    The data leak in New Zealand sheds no light at all on the claims. It included sensational claims that everyone at a vaccine site is now dead.
    
    I am always happy to change my mind. I would like to see statistical analysis showing causation between the vaccines and excess deaths. I would like to see that analysis peer reviewed by two independent statisticians who have no involvement in the vaccine safety debate, on either side. I don’t think that is asking too much.
    
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    December 5, 2023 8:48am
    - imalwaysright
      
      “It included sensational claims that everyone at a vaccine site is now dead”
      
      I read it as 51 people who are now dead were all vaccinated at the same site.
      
      That’s not sensationalism.
      
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      December 5, 2023 8:56am
      - Littletramp
        
        Apparently they were all (the 51) well over 80 years old at time of vaccination and they died within 200 days of injection. A curiosity for sure, but not an earth shattering or necessarily concerning revelation.
        They could solve this by simply giving open & transparent access to all data.
        I believe the reason they won’t do this is that the existing records are probably a total mess & if exposed would prove to be an embarrassment showing a lack of even basic competence by the Health authorities.
        
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        December 5, 2023 9:20am
      - Mummy
        
        All vaccinated at the same site within the same 2 hour timeframe. Same batch of vaccine.
        
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        December 5, 2023 9:35am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        IIRC, Krazikiwi’s report on the peer review showed it was flat out wrong.
        
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        December 5, 2023 9:40am
      - krazykiwi
        
        Hi Benedict, this story is evolving. If you have a few minutes I recommend reading this:
        
        https://open.substack.com/pub/amidwesterndoctor/p/the-tragic-consequences-of-dismissing
        
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        December 5, 2023 10:14am
      - john1234
        
        Probably vaccinated at a rest home or hospice and statistically likely to be in their last 1 or 2 years.
        
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        December 5, 2023 11:12am
    - Lee C
      
      Yesterday someone suggested if ‘excess deaths’ all happened ‘in a hospice’ for example, it would indicate the data about ‘excess deaths’ is misleading i.e. they would have died anyway.
      
      So they were saying either:
      
      The vaccines were a fraud becasue the ‘excess deaths’ died of covid.
      
      or they would have died of ‘flu’ anyway.
      
      Orperhaps we can assert that the vaccine killed more people than flu alone would have (the clue being in the word ‘excess’).
      
      Therefore all lockdown did was extend their lives by a matter of months, and/or the vaccine cleaned up a fair number of excess – ‘collateral damage’.
      
      One can therefore argue that either the jab or the covid were a fiction because two ideas: the jab was ‘safe and effective’ or “Lockdowns protect Granny” cannot both true at the same time.
      
      And yet, more than usual died.
      
      So, if ‘excess deaths’ did occur ‘in a hospice’ it suggests that the jabs were a major contributing factor, because you’ve eliminated ‘the flu’ and ‘covid’ and ‘the lockdown’ as causes.
      
      So which is it?
      
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      December 5, 2023 9:05am
      - david in Aus
        
        Your conflating many issues.
        I didn’t say everyone died at a hospice. My point was that certain vaccine centres will be outliers because of the population they were serving. At the beginning of the vaccine campaign high risk people were given priority. So, some centres having many people dying within a certain time is to be expected, and not necessarily indication of poor vaccine batch etc.
        Yes, the vaccine just prolonged life for a few months or years for some. That is not unusual for someone near the end of their lives.
        
        Did we eliminate cold and the flu forever? That’s ridiculous. During the lockdown, the rates of infections went down, that is why the excess deaths were negative. Once restrictions were eased infectious diseases spread through the population. There were some displaced deaths from that, later from earlier.
        
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        December 5, 2023 11:00am
      - john1234
        
        Excess deaths are measured across a national population not a residence. There’s no such statistic as “‘excess deaths’ did occur ‘in a hospice’ “
        
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        December 5, 2023 11:14am
      - david in Aus
        
        @john123. “Excess death are population measures”, that’s correct. The claim from some antivaxxers was that there were vaccine centres with high mortality rates. They were claiming poor vaccine batches. My response is to the vaccine batch claim, thus having outliers will not be unexpected. This doesn’t relate to excess deaths for the population.
        
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        December 5, 2023 11:47am
      - Bullion
        
        Nz was the only country (or maybe Korea as well) to see life expectancy increase during the pandemic with every other country seeing a fall in life expectancy.
        
        Some batches of the vaccine, the average age of those that died in the 2.5 yrs since is almost 86.
        
        And excess deaths is age standardised: and no excess deaths:
        https://twitter.com/Thoughtfulnz/status/1731166429335142875
        
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        December 5, 2023 4:12pm
    - Burtland
      
      the MoH says the data is being misrepresented – this would suggest they have at-hand an independent statistical analysis, why else would you collect the data – they should release the report and the data set
      
      why havent they done this?
      
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      December 5, 2023 9:38am
      - kevn
        
        Burt… and who was the Minister of Health in this period? little or who?
        
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        December 5, 2023 12:24pm
      - Miritu
        
        Good question and one everybody should be asking. All of this ‘misinformation’ could easily be put to bed by way of govt transparency – release the data to refute of all these ‘false’ claims
        
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        December 5, 2023 12:45pm
    - Keith White
      
      When there is no published analysis on current public health data, Occam suggests the analyses done are not being published because their results are unfavorable to the current public health groupthink.
      
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      December 5, 2023 9:42am
    - NothingLeft
      
      NZ saw 2000 more excess deaths in 2021 (+6% for year but +10-15% during 6months post vax pre omicron wave) compared to 2020. Just 2000 cases of covid Jan-Oct2021, same as the 2000 covid cases in 2020, yet a spike in excess deaths (>1000) that is a substantial fraction of all the covid cases up to that point, a trend that did not continue after covid hit in a big way.
      
      Epidemiologically the lagging Temporal correlation is powerful evidence of vaccine caused deaths, and there is a well known and studied mechanism (damage to myocardium and other vascular damage from spike proteins).
      
      NZ is an exceptionally high quality large-scale control experiment in the world for covid vaccine safety. It is being studiously ignored by establishment medicine because it is so clear and so damning.
      
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      December 5, 2023 10:13am
      - david in Aus
        
        It’s not evidence of vaccine related deaths.
        
        Australia has better data. The states were like separate countries with internal borders, but with the same vaccine rollout.
        
        The excess deaths were in the Australian states with covid outbreaks. In Nz, when omnicron was rampant, obviously covid with its many variants was widespread by then. Comparing Australian data and NZ, it is clear covid was the culprit of excess deaths. The biology of humans and viruses are the same between Australia and NZ, so we can draw the inference.
        
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        December 5, 2023 12:02pm
      - dcrane
        
        David in Aus
        Note that the pattern across Australia states can make sense if there is an interaction as well. The mRNA vaccines for some reason were designed to contain the spike protein which in itself has toxic effects. So if a wave of vaccinations coincided with a wave of infections they would interact as people sometimes ended up with both at the same time, and suffer a combined blow. Pretty sure I recall hearing explicit instruction to avoid getting vaccinated if you already had an infection starting. But some days go by before you even know. Anyway, this is also related to that Nature paper I sent yesterday.
        Fundamentally, it is an outrage that in a country with vaccination rates declining fast the government has not been willing to use its detailed dataset to test this question once and for all (let alone all of the of nations with socialised medicine).
        
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        December 5, 2023 4:16pm
    - Planet B
      
      The reason no one is looking into the cause of deaths is that an admission that forcing jabs into people is now causing a huge health issue has huge legal and financial implications, not to mention criminal implications. Heres a tip, Pfizer will not exist in a few years time. And over the next decade the admission of what has occurred will be inevitable. The U.S. army is now releasing info on the increases in health issues after the jabs. Actuaries are readjusting life insurance risk as dying unexpectedly was t a risk before the jabs and the reality of what is in the jabs including DNA is increasingly being admitted has huge potential for adverse events. It is in everyone who is complicit in the distribution and encouragement of taking the jab to avoid any confirmation that they just killed 18,000,000 people which is what the dads of our whistleblower and others is now showing.
      
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      December 5, 2023 10:30am
    - grumpy
      
      I have seen the video and seen enough to believe that the data must be publicly released and debated.
      To me there is no reasonable alternative explanation. The rush to shut down is telling.
      
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      December 5, 2023 11:25am
    - mawm
      
      If the health authorities worldwide published all their data we could then begin to analyse them. As they have been told not to do autopsies it is impossible to demonstrate the cause of death. The current method of determination is dishonest. In the absence of proper forensic analysis investigators must apply the Bradford-Hill criteria and from what I have seen, and well illustrated in Maggie Pie’s above twitter link where the deaths are enumerated, many of the criteria are met.
      
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      December 5, 2023 11:49am
      - david in Aus
        
        Do you how many autopsy are done? Not many because there aren’t many pathologists to do them. The cause of death in hospital are relatively straightforward. Deaths at home, unless the death was suspicious or unexpected are not autopsied.
        There is no vast conspiracy. It is impractical to autopsy every death, and imagine the stress you cause families with no benefit.
        
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        December 5, 2023 12:13pm
      - mawm
        
        David – one cannot have their cake and eat it. We are being told categorically that the deaths are not due to the vaccine but no autopsies are being done – not even for those deaths referred to some committee of wise men to ponder over. Information from elsewhere shows this to be untrue. Consistently approximately 70% of deaths following vaccination have demonstrated cardiac infiltration with mRNA and inflammation. An interesting side note – there is some correlation between muscle pain at the injection site and cardiac deaths.
        You can do your own searching for the various papers. I really can’t waste time on someone who suddenly appears on this blog with a mixture of medical knowledge, distorted facts and deliberate untruths. The timing is suspicious.
        
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        December 5, 2023 4:14pm
      - dcrane
        
        david in Aus here is a systematic review of autopsy results. It is not difficult to find outcomes that appear to be caused by the vaccines.
        
        https://zenodo.org/records/8120771
        A SYSTEMATIC REVIEW OF AUTOPSY FINDINGS IN DEATHS AFTER COVID-19 VACCINATION
        
        Nicolas Hulscher, BS1
        …
        Peter A. McCullough, MD, MPH5
        ABSTRACT
        
        Background: The rapid development and widespread deployment of COVID-19 vaccines, combined with a high number of adverse event reports, have led to concerns over possible mechanisms of injury including systemic lipid nanoparticle (LNP) and mRNA distribution, spike protein-associated tissue damage, thrombogenicity, immune system dysfunction, and carcinogenicity. The aim of this systematic review is to investigate possible causal links between COVID-19 vaccine administration and death using autopsies and post-mortem analysis.
        
        Methods: We searched for all published autopsy and necropsy reports relating to COVID-19 vaccination up until May 18th, 2023. We initially identified 678 studies and, after screening for our inclusion criteria, included 44 papers that contained 325 autopsy cases and one necropsy case. Three physicians independently reviewed all deaths and determined whether COVID-19 vaccination was the direct cause or contributed significantly to death.
        
        Findings: The most implicated organ system in COVID-19 vaccine-associated death was the cardiovascular system (53%), followed by the hematological system (17%), the respiratory system (8%), and multiple organ systems (7%). Three or more organ systems were affected in 21 cases. The mean time from vaccination to death was 14.3 days. Most deaths occurred within a week from last vaccine administration. A total of 240 deaths (73.9%) were independently adjudicated as directly due to or significantly contributed to by COVID-19 vaccination.
        
        Interpretation: The consistency seen among cases in this review with known COVID-19 vaccine adverse events, their mechanisms, and related excess death, coupled with autopsy confirmation and physician-led death adjudication, suggests there is a high likelihood of a causal link between COVID-19 vaccines and death in most cases. Further urgent investigation is required for the purpose of clarifying our findings.
        
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        December 5, 2023 4:20pm
    - Scooter
      
      Regardless if the vaccine caused the deaths or if there is a combination of factors eg lockdowns leading to delay in treatment, diagnosis, depression, separation from family and friends etc, there must be no doubt that the whole COVID/lockdown/mandate fiasco is and will be a disaster for a long time.
      
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      December 5, 2023 11:55am
      - david in Aus
        
        That is a more reasonable question. In a similar situation in the future would NZ do it differently. I think yes. We know better the trade-offs involved. It depends on your values to some extent.
        
        But people angry with restrictions around covid, although reasonable feelings, are being led down a garden path by these anti-vaxxers.
        
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        December 5, 2023 12:20pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        A novel disease does require autopsy . Although its not practical to autopsy everyone, it is essential that a representative sample should be done on an ongoing basis.
        I assumed that scientists and governments would demand that this was an essential part of identifying the virulence of the virus and, more importantly, any side effects from an experimental drug.
        Maybe I’m naive .
        
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        December 5, 2023 2:23pm
      - mawm
        
        David – this was not a medical response to a new pathogen. It was mumbo-jumbo dictated from elsewhere, even to the extent of preventing clinicians from treating patients.
        
        Would NZ respond differently ? No! They are a captured government, as are the other members of 5Eyes.
        
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        December 5, 2023 4:21pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    “Can anyone tell me why Plunkett is such a plonker when discussing the jab issue?”
    
    Two possibilities I can think of:-
    
    1. He’s backed himself into a corner and now lacks the humility to admit he’d got it wrong; or,
    
    2. His organisation is being paid to maintain the pro-vax narrative.
    
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    December 5, 2023 10:04am
    - Liberty
      
      Initially, I presumed that Plunkett was assuming the role of Devil’s advocate
      . However, it appears that he has descended to being a foolish and inept individual. It is quite regrettable, given that he puts on the best show in town.
      
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      December 5, 2023 2:32pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  The conditions of his bail were not read to the court.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/former-te-whatu-ora-employee-appears-in-court-charged-with-covid-19-vaccination-data-breach/ADKOB4AKFNEIFKLBO5DEVVY47M/
  
  However I think you will find that a condition of his bail is that he makes no public comments on the data. If he went on a podcast he would find himself in prison while he awaits trial.
  
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  December 5, 2023 8:42am
- Master Mariner
  
  “NZ is a valuable research data trove”.
  Vejon Health.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MJOgBg-CxI
  
  And more detail,
  https://philipmcmillan.substack.com/p/health-worker-arrested-for-sharing
  
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  December 5, 2023 8:57am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Is Barry Young a Health Department worker or an IT worker connected to Oracle?
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:05am
  - Keith White
    
    It appears based on public domain information he is both. And the MOH confirmed it.
    
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    December 5, 2023 9:43am
  - bennerg
    
    From LinkedIn:
    
    Barry Young
    Wellington Region, New Zealand
    Oracle Database Administrator · Senior Oracle Database Administrator
    
    Ministry of Health New Zealand
    University of Northumbria at Newcastle
    
    Locations (on-site)
    Australia · Dubai, United Arab Emirates · Singapore · London Area, United Kingdom · Wellington Region, New Zealand
    
    Endorsed by 16 members, 2 from MoH. One “highly skilled”.
    
    About
    Getting IT done sustainably!
    Helping business and organisations reach their goals by becoming more efficient and cost effective while giving customers a better experience.
    I also care about fairness, integrity and truth telling in life and especially in the media. I find MSM doesn’t always do that. I support and follow people brave enough to speak up for what they believe in and strong enough to make a difference. I believe in speaking truth to power not power to truth.
    I’m very passionate about Gold and Silver which I believe will one day find their true value.
    When I wrote this many years ago I knew one day we’d be staring at runaway inflation and the end game of the petrodollar. It is happening. Slowly at first but it is happening! Gold and silver will endure. Trust me.
    Most of all I care about our beautiful planet. Keeping it protected and sustainable for future generations should be the goal of humanity. So far we’re doing a lousy job as a species but I’m trying my best to make a difference.
    
    Posts:
    
    Barry Young
    Senior Oracle Database Administrator
    Yes there was Chippy. You forced people to get vaccinated to keep their jobs.
    That makes you the scum of the Earth.
    
    https://www.linkedin.com/in/barry-young-41a65616/
    
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    December 5, 2023 10:09am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    From his LinkedIn profile, he’s a specialist in Oracle database technologies. The Health sector uses a lot of Oracle. It doesn’t mean he’s an Oracle plant or anything of that nature.
    
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    December 5, 2023 8:20pm
Clown

I knew that Wellington has always been a hotbed of left wing extremism and a lair of social justice warriors – but these protests are unacceptable. Anyone causing disruption in Wellington needs to be packed up by the police and thrown in jail for a few weeks – accompanied by heavy fine and community service. This rabble ‘protesting’ is just another highlight of Jacinda’s failed regime and scum being allowed to run amok with zero accountability!
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December 5, 2023 8:36am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  These type of people do not do community service or pay fines.
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:15am
- MCōs
  
  Same, same Groundswell, Brian Tamaki in his various guises and so on
  
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  December 5, 2023 12:46pm
  - dcrane
    
    At least they were protesting anti-democratic acts.
    
    The current government proposes to put in policies that were the subject of an election campaign that they won.
    
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    December 5, 2023 4:22pm
    - MCōs
      
      That’s debatable
      National are sucking up to NZF by substituting the smoking tax for the tax on foreign buyers that had to be cancelled
      
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      December 5, 2023 5:08pm
Cassandra

Damp squibs: 1. Protests all over the country – not in Tauranga, only a few people (who are unemployed ie supported by the people they’re protesting about), 2. We hate King Charles and all he stands for (but we’ll swear allegiance to him because we won’t get paid if we don’t).
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December 5, 2023 8:36am
- Cassandra
  
  And in Bethlehem where I live, the usual protest site of the SH2 roundabout has……………. No protest. Nada. Zilch. Too early in the morning?
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:20am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Cassandra my wife predicted low turn out due to the hour!
    
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    December 5, 2023 10:28am
- Random T Person
  
  I saw one surly Maori fellow with a tino rangatirotanga flag down the heads at Whakatane early this morning. Said hello to him, as is my custom to greet all those wandering at dawn; he was the only person who didn’t respond. Tool.
  
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  December 5, 2023 10:47am
Benedict Yu

And so the rhetoric ramps up. The leader of the Maori Party accuses the new Government of mounting “state sponsored terrorism” against Maori.

https://twitter.com/MHReddell/status/1731572745874669867?t=34XC8LUSW6apJ77b0XoOeg&s=19

It is going to be a long three years. ☹️

The Maori Party leadership is running very close to inciting violence against an elected government.

It is worth noting that, unlike the PM, David Seymour goes about his business with no security protection at all. I hope that we do not see violence perpetrated against our politicians. However things are looking ominous.
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December 5, 2023 8:37am
- JerJer
  
  Hardly anyone has turned up. 100 in palmy north, many of whom in the picture look like they are waiting for buses or are on their way to school, 30 at some bridge somewhere, 150 in Nelson. Seems like they are really up for this, or more likely no one cares except for this hardcore lot and the rest are still in bed.
  
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  December 5, 2023 8:46am
- graham
  
  The Maori Party, much like the Green Party, seems to go through cycles of:
  
  (a) relatively moderate members
  (b) bat-shit crazy members
  
  over the years. Both parties have previously had members who were at least relatively sensible and sane. I may have disagreed with their policies, but at least they could discuss those policies without resorting to hysterical hyperbole.
  
  Both parties now seem to comprise mainly of bat-shit crazy members. Julie-Ann Genter seems incapable of talking without bursting into mad histrionics. I wonder how long this particular cycle will last?
  
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  December 5, 2023 8:58am
- nathie
  
  TPM do have the right to peaceful protest … but one would think they would have a good reason to do so rather than base it on ignorance and/or deliberate mis/dis-information.
  
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  December 5, 2023 10:35am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Maybe they are protesting about the right to protest.
    Any excuse to protest will do.
    
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    December 5, 2023 2:02pm
- Philview
  
  On the bright side more people will see what an extremist Government the Labour/Green/TPM coalition would have been. The media bias is really getting on my nerves and giving so much airtime to Hipkins/Robertson. The media seem to forget that those 2 were emphatically rejected by the electorate. Seeing their faces every day isn’t going to improve my opinion of them.
  
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  December 5, 2023 1:45pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  I’ll repeat what I said the other day. I believe Packer is more than 50% (62% I heard) European. If that is so, I reckon it’s insane for someone to whine about being colonised when the person is the coloniser?
  
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  December 5, 2023 2:58pm
greenfinger

TPM is so pathetic with their hikoi! Clearly getting paid too much benefit if time to disrupt the average kiwi battler trying to got to work to put food on table for hard working families.
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December 5, 2023 8:39am
Stellaboxer

What’s with the radical Māori chic of wearing 19th century clothes? Top hats, pill box hats, kilts , waist coats, smoking clay pipes, firing off shot guns and western tattoos ( ie applied with a tattoo gun ) in a Māori style? Talk about cultural appropriation or not as the case may be but seriously if you look at their call to protest banners on Facebook they feature crossed flintlock pistols! What’s with the Victorianesque fashion statement lol. Maybe they believe it lends them an authenticity that jeans and tee shirts don’t whatever’s behind it they’re sure making it hard to keep a straight face in front of. Poor things.
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December 5, 2023 8:42am
- alex Masterley
  
  Steam Punk?
  
  23 1
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  December 5, 2023 9:24am
  - lifesgood
    
    No, just punks.
    
    10 0
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    December 5, 2023 10:00am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Past Tech – Future Tech
    
    Dress like that and I’ll vote for you!
    
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    December 5, 2023 10:07am
  - Damocles11
    
    Steamed Pork & Puha Punk
    
    11 0
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    December 5, 2023 10:33am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Steam punk do you reckon Alex Masterley? Or maybe they think that’s what their ancestors dressed like before the dreadful colonialists turned up such is their ignorance it wouldn’t surprise me.
    
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    December 5, 2023 10:56am
  - sungsamning
    
    Yes, its Te Pati Steam Punk.
    
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    December 5, 2023 4:44pm
- kowtow
  
  If you want to be taken seriously then dress properly.
  
  If you want to be regarded as a clown , then again dress accordingly .
  
  These people are cosplaying morons , reminiscent of that steam punk nonsense.
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:32am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  What gets me Stella, on the appropriation front, is the wheel.
  
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  December 5, 2023 3:00pm
kevn

Like children having lollies taken from them. Because they aren’t good for them, too much ‘sugar’.
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December 5, 2023 8:43am
Maggie Pie

And here’s another thing….

Have you noticed how it’s always those immigrants who arrive here with nothing to offer the country, but are allowed to enter our Parliament, that actually hate us the most 🙁

https://twitter.com/RMarchNZ/status/1731401693945110935
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December 5, 2023 8:50am
- Benedict Yu
  
  There should be no second chances. If these MPs refuse to take the oath of office, that should be that. Out of Parliament.
  
  There is a good reason to do so. If they call King Charles a colonial monster who commits genocide, any oath they eventually take is a lie.
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:00am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Benedict, that is entirely the position. A.s I rote at the weekend Sinn Fein, refuse to swear allegiance in the UK, and so never take their seats in the House of Commons.
    
    Without giving a full constitutional dissertation, if TPM abide by the laws of the land regarding being MPs in Parliament they can sit outside Parliament. Their choice, it would be no different if I wanted to be in attendance at Turangawaewae!
    
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    December 5, 2023 9:08am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Yes,
    Its not just a matter of saying the oath.
    They are then obliged to conduct themselves in accordance with the oath.
    If they act contrary to the oath at any time then the speaker can have them removed.
    
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    December 5, 2023 9:11am
    - Paulus
      
      Was in Bethlehem, Tauranga coffee bar, a few minutes ago and there was an employer (Kiwifruit I think) giving all his small packhouse, almost all Maori, to free whatever breakfasts etc.
      They all seemed very happy and cheerful, perhaps they had forgotten to Hikoi.
      
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      December 5, 2023 10:52am
  - Countrygirl
    
    I notice that plenty are happy to accept knighthoods and other colonial awards, but still poke their heads up to decry the evil colonisers.
    
    22 1
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    December 5, 2023 9:13am
    - Stellaboxer
      
      Country girl likewise when one of them finds themselves in a medical emergency they never ask the ambulance to drop them off and at the Rongoā Practitioners house.
      
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      December 5, 2023 10:01am
    - MCōs
      
      Who are you referring to exactly?
      
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      December 5, 2023 12:53pm
- kowtow
  
  Is that to do with the “poor” little rich boy who’s Daddy’s a doctor and lives behind a high walled enclosure safe and sound from the Plebs .
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:01am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Just came across this decription in the Dictionary which sounded appropriate….
    
    https://urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Homotard
    
    😀 😀 😀
    
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    December 5, 2023 9:18am
    - kowtow
      
      Or in Mexican;
      
      homotardo
      
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      December 5, 2023 10:51am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      Mags, you need to get hold of a copy of Rogers Profanisaurus for all that stuff. You will literally cry laughing for a month.
      
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      December 5, 2023 3:04pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The protest that is really an activation according to the Maori cowboy on the idiot box.
Streams of traffic heading south past Northcote towards the bridge.
What they fail to mention is the traffic is like that every weekday morning at this time, but let’s make a big deal out of it.
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December 5, 2023 8:50am
- hullkiwi
  
  That was my thoughts about the 3 Auckland Motorway protests.
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:00am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Maybe some of these protesters could start gluing their hands to the roads. Fine. Plenty of road cones, so use a few and leave the pricks there.
    What’s the bet they won’t do it again after being glued for 48 hours?
    
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    December 5, 2023 2:11pm
Lee C

Another ‘deluded’ ‘tin-foil-hat-wearing’ ‘conspiracy theorist’ ‘crazie’ emerges:
https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/attorney-general-ken-paxton-sues-pfizer-misrepresenting-covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-and-conspiring
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December 5, 2023 8:50am
- Planet B
  
  Yeah because a company that has been fined billions of dollars for misleading people on its pharmaceutical products wouldn’t lie. Please tell me you are being paid by Pfizer and you ate not just volunteering your gaslighting.
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:03am
  - Lee C
    
    If you knew anything about me Planet B you would know I’m a bit of a satirist.
    
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    December 5, 2023 9:36am
    - Planet B
      
      Apologies for jumping the gun
      
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      December 5, 2023 9:44am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Hook, line, sinker, and most of the arm is so much fun.
      
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      December 5, 2023 2:13pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Unlike many states, including Florida, Texas as no liability shield for harm caused by pharmaceutical products. This will be an interesting case to watch. If successful – which I hope it will be – it result in other states revising their legislation. The DNA contamination issue may yet become a smoking gun because it is now clear that Pfizer knew about it, hid it, and they can’t pin it on BioNTech as the contamination relates to production activities which are 100% in Pfizer’s wheelhouse.
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:19am
hullkiwi

Is NZ’s democracy under threat?

First, we observed the chaotic scenes in running an election courtesy of the Liebore govt meddling with the electoral laws, and an Electoral Commission bereft of clues as to what to do & apparently even count the poll.

Since the election, we have witnessed a generally hostile MSM, that has been acting as the opposition to the govt with a constant stream of negative & hostile report.

And finally, the entrenched hostility of the Wellington establishment has been laid bare with the leak of a cabinet paper on the FPA repeal

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/12/fair-pay-agreements-leaked-cabinet-paper-reveals-workplace-relations-minister-brooke-van-velden-at-odds-with-official-advice.html

Then there is TPM and their protests, telling the media that the govt should be talking to them and be implementing TPM policy.

With the above, it seems the left, the MSM & the Wellington establishment do not believe in democracy or that the result culminating from the election are valid. News for the losers. Nat/Act/NZF scored 55% of the vote, and that is democracy!
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December 5, 2023 8:54am
- Drone
  
  The leaking of a confidential cabinet paper highlights the lax processes DIA have demonstrated around IT security and people vetting in Ministerial Offices. There are a number of technologies that could be used to prevent document leaks, and that allow the a unique code to be embedded in a printed document identifying which printer and hence which office the document came from. Technologies also exist to prevent documents being emailed out of a network and if they are keeping a trail and a copy. Additionally workstations can be locked down to prevent the use of USB thumb drives. Firewall logs also track all Internet activity. If leaks still happen when you have the technologies in place to prevent them then you have a people problem and it’s time to look at other solutions like restricting access to only those people who need to work on the document.
  
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  December 5, 2023 1:45pm
RRM

9am outside Parliament… there’s not much “Māori action” here. Couple of people walking around wearing rangatiratanga flags as capes.

No concrete blocks across the gates I notice. That seems to be reserved for people who don’t want the jab.
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December 5, 2023 9:03am
- kowtow
  
  Dunedin reported had 80 in the Octagon.( ODT)
  
  The far left, union/Green, anti Israel ,pro Hamas mob manage a regular 2oo -300 reportedly .
  
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  December 5, 2023 10:50am
My-Gumboot

The most significant outcome of colonialism in NZ is Democracy.
This enabled the election of a parliament and a coalition government with a higher proportion of Maori than their population would suggest.
It also allows some degree of public disruption without the consequence of bloody reprisal.
It also allows a high degree of public disruption and a proportionate consequence based on law and precedent.
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December 5, 2023 9:04am
imalwaysright

Debbie Packer was on tv1 complaining about Shane Jones being a misogynist .

Shane was sitting beside Deb, who in her misandristic wisdom decided to refer to Shane as “uncle”

The interviewer then said to Deb “Talking of dinosaurs , will you be taking the oath in Parliament today?” !

We have a hostile media.
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December 5, 2023 9:05am
- nathie
  
  We also have a media that spreads dis-information.
  
  RNZ Morning Report’s Corrin Dann at 8.10am: “Govt to remove Maori names from Govt departments”.
  
  Wrong Corrin. The Govt is reverting back to English names first, with Maori names second. That is not removing Maori names at all.
  
  And it makes 100% sense (as it did pre-Ardern changing things) as a Crown entity for all NZ’ers (and showing respect to Maori by also including the Maori name).
  
  As it makes 100% sense for Maori entities to have the Maori name first, with the English name second (or rectifying the Ardern-error-era of not including an English name at all).
  
  State (taxpayer) funded RNZ needs to stop spreading deliberate dis-information.
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:24am
  - stiff cheese
    
    Lots of Maori words here, perhaps even ‘new-fangled’ ones: Parliament’s Calendar for 2023 | pdf file
    
    • Did Maoris really have a word for every month of the year?. . . Did they divide the year up into 12 segments too? Seems unlikely to me.
    • Who made the rule that Maori words are placed first always? . . Can there be no variation? Not even 50-50?
    • Why isn’t the English equivalent to 0800-PAREMATA given? — (the number for calling Parliament…. How many people would call 0800-PARAMATA by mistake, get a wrong connection, and give up? )
    
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    December 5, 2023 10:39am
    - Scott
      
      I don’t want Maori names for government departments at all. Take Waka Kotahi for NZ transport agency.
      
      On land the Maori had no wheel, no roads, no paths and no shoes. It’s empty virtue signalling that has no relevance to anything.
      
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      December 5, 2023 11:54am
  - Jack5
    
    Dann on Red Dawn radio …
    
    Just more Left bias at Radio NZ.
    
    On its web site, see the swathe of pictures of the Maori Party’s walking tantrum.
    
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    December 5, 2023 11:49am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  That big bully Shane Jones was making Packer very nervous. Her blinking gave it away. //
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:34am
  - imalwaysright
    
    S.O
    Her facial expressions betray her.
    I remember her and her cohort being asked on election night why they thought they got so many votes.
    Deb looked at one of her mates, mumbled something and did the wink wink nod nod before her mate reminded her she was on live tv.
    She looks like someone waiting to be found out.
    
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    December 5, 2023 10:06am
  - Scooter
    
    I noticed that, her nervousness was obvious, a bit intimidated I’d say.
    
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    December 5, 2023 11:58am
- cas
  
  I think the Maori party leaders are trying to play good cop bad cop games. On TV 3 Rawiri was all about peace and love and we will feed you, look after you, house you type of stuff and Debbie is going full tilt on the extremist stuff. ( I wonder if she knows how the word genocide came into existence.
  
  They would do a shit load better if they addressed issue like kids getting killed and no one talking and in rawiri’s area the source of the huge amount of meth going into the waste water. Just saying.
  
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  December 5, 2023 10:39am
  - Don Beckett
    
    The only genocide that happened in NZ was Maori killing Maori.
    1. The Musket wars in the 1830’s? with Maori killing Maori caused the death of around 40,000 Maori – around half of their population.
    2. Maori invading Chatham islands & killing virtually all the Mori-ori killed the men, enslaved the spared women & children – many were eaten.
    It’s time Debbie Packer shut up about genocide.
    
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    December 5, 2023 1:39pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Hostile media? That interviewer is quite dumb you know.
  
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  December 5, 2023 2:16pm
surfing

Maori are on the pig’s back at the moment. Maori demands against the taxpayer are like death through 1000 cuts.

Here is a Bob Jones’ article on Maori excess…
https://nopunchespulled.com/2023/07/18/bullshit-maori-indulgence/

Did you know that real estate agents are forced to give Maori 600k a year…
https://nopunchespulled.com/2023/03/28/another-maori-wonderfulness-absurdity/

Just a few Ford Rangers for the Maori elite.

This kind of nonsense should stop, but it will only get worse in the long term.

I’ve sometimes wondered why government continue to lease Jones’s office space when he holds such views. Surely government suppliers are required to support the principles of the treaty of Waitangi.
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December 5, 2023 9:09am
cmm

Deliberately obstructing traffic is a crime unless……
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December 5, 2023 9:12am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  unless you are special.
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:38am
  - Burtland
    
    someone should task some government agency to find the ‘special’ gene – then maybe they can put it in the next mRNA vaccine so we can all get it //
    
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    December 5, 2023 10:34am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Safe and effective?
      
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      December 5, 2023 2:17pm
- MCōs
  
  Unless you are Groundswell . . .
  
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  December 5, 2023 1:01pm
DimChappie

TV1 at 730am: in a live cross, a man holding a mic at Parliament says “If they come for the treaty, we’re coming for them.”
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December 5, 2023 9:15am
- Cassandra
  
  “First they came for the Treaty, then they came for the dole………..”
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:24am
  - I remember when
    
    What effect would it have, if we were informed of the financial benefits Maori received, in total, every year.
    Would colonialisation look like such a disasterous result?
    
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    December 5, 2023 9:46am
    - mawm
      
      I think many more taxpayers would revolt. The total annual spend on Maori must be enormous – and determined by race and not need.
      
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      December 5, 2023 12:06pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  People like Tamihere, Jackson, Mair, Turia and the cowboy have got the natives on the warpath.
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:40am
Scooter

I think if the media carry on with this vindictive one sided view of the new govt then it’s going to be an even worse more disheartening period than the last 3 years. Btw did any reporter address the PM Ardern by her first name as some woman (accent like nails on a chalk board) did to Nicola Willis on Mondays post cab press conf? A little respect goes along way.
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December 5, 2023 9:27am
- Paulus
  
  The Media Party are only interested in what they can use to discredit the new Government which they did not vote for, and did everything to try and decry the result.
  Every opportunity is being used every day to condemn our new Government.
  They will regret it as they are being seen to be not very intelligent which is about right.
  We voted for a change Media Party, Labour Greens, TPM Parties.
  
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  December 5, 2023 1:33pm
I remember when

Hypocrisy?
When did we hear or see the name Reipa during the Election?
Reipa – New Zealand Labour Party.
What no Aotearoa?
Another you need to learn and use Maori but not so much us – just in case it reduces our vote numbers.
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December 5, 2023 9:40am
- nathie
  
  Umm the Māori pronunciation sounds less than … ahem, ideal from an English perspective especially if one mangles the pronunciation. (Might need a macron added for different emphasis)?
  
  https://maoridictionary.co.nz/word/6685
  
  Perhaps why Labour and the “woke” MSM don’t use it?
  
  But it has been gifted to Labour so it is theirs and to not use it would surely be an insult!
  
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  December 5, 2023 10:11am
WaynelSexton

The Amish prove you can live by your own rules, language, customs etc without reverting to shutting down cities and yelling at empty government buildings.
This Maori protest is just as pathetic as the covid protesters who couldn’t just take off their masks and refuse the vaccine.
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December 5, 2023 9:43am
- Benedict Yu
  
  The COVID protestors were protesting at having their lives ruined by mandates. Not the same at all.
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:56am
  - mandk
    
    Correct.
    
    I spent a lot of time at the protest, and I don’t recall talking to anyone who opposed vaccination per se.
    
    It was an anti-mandate protest.
    
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    December 5, 2023 10:24am
  - WaynelSexton
    
    Ridiculous claim, at worse you had to get a new job for 6 months. Not exactly life ruining.
    No need to shut down Wellington for 2 weeks.
    
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    December 5, 2023 11:13am
    - imalwaysright
      
      ?
      
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      December 5, 2023 11:51am
    - Keith White
      
      My child’s health is ruined for life (and much less serious but still annoying, I can’t get my NZ career back ever) WaynelSexton, so you can take a flying leap at a rolling ring donut with your “at worse” BS.
      
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      December 5, 2023 12:38pm
      - WaynelSexton
        
        Huh, so you lost your job but injected your child with an experimental gene therapy?
        Your story makes no sense.
        
        0 16
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        December 5, 2023 2:24pm
      - Keith White
        
        Geez Wayne.
        
        No, I did not inject my child – you “bear of little brain”.
        
        The State gave her no option other than to accept the vaxx or not graduate from her Master’s degree, and not be able to take up her job offer, and not to be able to travel to her job.
        
        I only found out when she was having trouble getting to see a cardiologist, because “your acute myocarditis could not possibly be related to this safe and effective vaccination”, despite the facts.
        
        We were fortunate to be able to fly her to Oz to see an unprejudiced cardiac specialist.
        
        I understand you just want to fling poo at an anonymous internet writer.
        
        I hope you never find yourself in this position if you have children.
        
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        December 5, 2023 4:49pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Waynal
        
        You are clearly lucky enough to have escaped the covid regime unscathed.
        
        That’s good.
        
        Some haven’t been as fortunate and may suffer for the rest of their lives. That’s not good .
        
        That’s bad.
        
        I thought you needed an explanation of what is good and what is bad.
        
        If you were already aware of the difference then I am willing to explain to you the meaning of the word ashamed.
        
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        December 5, 2023 6:21pm
    - Taieri
      
      at worse you had to get a new job for 6 months
      ——————
      
      Why should I get a new job for 6 months?
      
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      December 5, 2023 1:05pm
      - wsk12345
        
        And who would give me a job? Unvaxxed meant unemployable in my field.
        
        14 0
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        December 5, 2023 2:49pm
    - mandk
      
      “At worst”
      
      That’s just so wrong.
      
      Many thousands of people (including defence, medical and protective service personnel, lost their jobs permanently. They weren’t able to go back in after 6 months.
      
      And then there were those who suffered physical injury (and sometimes death) because they were coerced into taking the vaxx.
      
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      December 5, 2023 2:21pm
- thirteenstars
  
  True about the Amish but they do it in a society that respects radical differences in opinion and lifestyle.
  
  Religious or secular groups that try that on in NZ tend to be treated as outsiders, as if there’s something wrong with going your own way while still respecting the law.
  
  In NZ we not only have Tall Poppy Syndrome but the Wide Poppy variety, too.
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:57am
- ds
  
  The point is to cause as much disruption as possible for the coalition over the next three years.
  We don’t need to make them look like incompetents as they are doing that themselves. Willis being an example with her spirit of the Public Finance Act BS.
  
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  December 5, 2023 10:06am
- Jethrod
  
  The exception is that Amish support totally themselves without putting a hand out for a handout.
  
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  December 5, 2023 10:12am
Benedict Yu

Good grief.

“Council signals risk of major cuts to Wellington’s passenger rail services”

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/503933/council-signals-risk-of-major-cuts-to-wellington-s-passenger-rail-services

How did this happen? A billion dollar shortfall?
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December 5, 2023 9:55am
- Keith White
  
  Drunk in charge.
  
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  December 5, 2023 12:38pm
- Drone
  
  Why does Daran Ponter’s name always appear with bad news relating to services he has a hand in delivering, but it seems that it’s never his fault. If he’s not actually directly responsible for any of the services/issues then what is he responsible for. It would seem only reporting bad news.. Unless it’s a new pedestrian crossing on Cobham Drive..
  
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  December 5, 2023 2:16pm
Maggie Pie

National Finance Mnister Nicola Willis alleges Grant Robertson used ‘clever reacharounds’ to make the books look better than they really are…

https://twitter.com/NewsroomNZ/status/1731735908385259697
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December 5, 2023 10:05am
- mandk
  
  Hi Maggie
  The word she used was ‘workarounds’. Much less stomach-churning.
  
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  December 5, 2023 10:19am
  - Lee C
    
    But not such a stretch as to make it unworkable as a metaphor…
    
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    December 5, 2023 1:43pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    A friend told me it is a term used on those websites we never go to…..
    
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    December 5, 2023 2:35pm
- Paulus
  
  Robertson’s reply to Willis is his usual rude misogynistic way, as he cannot stand women except his Queen Ardern.
  Male Clown.
  
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  December 5, 2023 10:58am
artemisia

Excellent to see Prime Minister Luxon committing to improving outcomes for Maori.

A few suggestions. Lock up perpetrators of violence against Maori for a good long time. Run cheap classes in budgeting, exercise and nutrition. Even more law enforcement focus on gangs and drug dealers. Identify recalcitrant truants and knock on the door every time they miss.

It is possible initiatives like these may not be what some want. But outcomes would actually be improved.
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December 5, 2023 10:11am
- ds
  
  All that while cutting the public service.
  
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  December 5, 2023 10:43am
- kowtow
  
  Outcomes for maori .
  
  No , outcomes based on those in need . let’s get past this divisive race nonsense.
  
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  December 5, 2023 10:44am
Chris Nisbet

Rawiri speaks the truth when he says “we don’t need divisive policies”!!
He’s just got it completely bass ackwards what makes a divisive policy and what doesn’t.
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December 5, 2023 10:15am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Waititi has a very distorted ideolodical thinking that clouds his ability to see reason.
  
  He, like his ilk believe they are superior which is how apartheid actually manifests….The TMP website statements had to be removed because of comments of superiority…
  
  It is easier for him to spout divisive rhetoric with an icing of blame than to have a conversation about how ‘maori’ do not have the same rights and opportunities that every other person born in NZ has.
  
  His fundamental belief in his victim status because of ‘systemic racisim’ is clearly opposed by his own visual success in the system he decries as racist and is supposedly systemically holding him back.
  
  At the same time he holds his inferiority of victimhood inside a systemically racist system he stands unvictimised, strong and unbending because he is superiority to all others and of course that system….Strange indeed.
  
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  December 5, 2023 10:30am
  - kowtow
    
    ‘ideology clouds his ability to see reason.’
    
    it’s also entirely possible that he’s as thick as pig shit.
    
    seriously , has he ever come across as even marginally sensible .
    
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    December 5, 2023 10:42am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    You are only picking on him because he wears a hat.
    Look at me, look at me.//
    
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    December 5, 2023 2:39pm
Swifty

How utterly pathetic, but oh so predictable, for Ngarewa-Packer to so quickly label Jones as a ‘bullier of Maori women’.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301020506/shane-jones-calls-protest-theatre-debbie-ngarewapacker-hits-back-with-old-dinosaur-comment-in-fiery-tv-interview

And for what? For speaking the truth, that’s what.

Frankly, I thought Ngarewa-Packer was made of sterner stuff. But no, I was clearly wrong. She’s happy to dish it out but totally unable to take it.
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December 5, 2023 10:22am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  You (and I) must be on a different wavelength from Martyn Bradbury
  
  https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/12/05/mediawatch-debbie-roasts-shane-jones-in-angry-tvnz-debate/
  
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  December 5, 2023 10:31am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    “Bomber” appears to think a blogsite or social media site is nothing more than an electronic version of one of those old commie newspapers like Pravda or The Daily Worker that just ranted out the same old agit-prop language day after day after day.
    
    I don’t see what other conclusion you can take when you see the incredibly repetitive nature of his rants: the same phrases and even whole sections of text copied and pasted across successive articles. I’ve lost track of how often he uses the phrases EXTREMIST, FAR (HARD)-RIGHT, GOVERNMENT to describe our new National/ACT/Winston government, often many times in the same post.
    
    It’s as if The Daily Blog is some sort of online protest where you just chant the same shit through a bullhorn at the front while the crowd behind you repeats the chant. It’s what he grew up with as a young political activist I guess and aside from the electronic version the only other new addition is Social Media’s clickbait use of terms like DESTROYS, ROASTS, etc, etc in describing the orgasmic triumph in debate of those he worships.
    
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    December 5, 2023 11:03am
  - Swifty
    
    The day I trust Bradbury’s judgement on matters is the day you can drag me off to the knacker’s yard.
    
    Never in my life have I experienced a public figure get so much wrong over such a long period. He is unique in that his degree of wrongness is only matched by the shrillness and volume with which he advertises it.
    
    I’d give him some credit for his recent free speech advocacy but I can’t be bothered. He is a squawking extremist who wouldn’t know consistency or principle if he stumbled over them. Given how he writes, you can only wonder at what actually goes on in his mind.
    
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    December 5, 2023 11:10am
  - Notsofast
    
    I watched the clip in full before this nonsense of Bradbury. His horse lost by the length of the straight.
    Winston and Shane Jones are doing well, I see real focus here, understanding they are the last defence against the dreams and destructive aspirations of cunning part Maori.
    
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    December 5, 2023 12:20pm
- BeaB
  
  Poor Debbie. She has to resort to name calling and out pours the tiresome sexist, ageist cliched drivel.
  It was sad to see.
  Surely she has more brain power than that but I guess sneering, patronising passive-aggression is the way she operates.
  
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  December 5, 2023 11:42am
  - Swifty
    
    Exactly BeaB.
    
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    December 5, 2023 12:07pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  What is it with the blinking eyes?
  Is it Morse code in Maori?
  
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  December 5, 2023 2:43pm
Skippytony

+Can I please suggest that you set up two comments streams for this site?

One for those who want to go on and on and on about all things Covid

One for everything else.

Please………
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December 5, 2023 10:25am
- kowtow
  
  No likey ?
  Scroll wheely.
  
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  December 5, 2023 10:39am
- krazykiwi
  
  Skippytony, if you are disinterested in the greatest medical malfeasance in our political history then scroll baby, scroll.
  
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  December 5, 2023 11:24am
  - Skippytony
    
    I am in no way attempting to influence or stop your ongoing conversations about something that is clearly very important to a group of people. Knock yourselves out.
    But, for me, this site is one of a few I go to pretty much daily to get a sense of what is going on. One of the best sources of insight and nuance is this discussion forum.
    Which personally im finding becoming harder and harder to scroll through as these no doubt well intentioned and sincere comments about all things covid just start to sound more and more like an echo chamber. Which I have to sort of scan to then try and scroll through / over.
    So, fine, leave this one going by all means, and please set up a non-covid discussion thread.
    
    =everyone happy. well……
    
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    December 5, 2023 12:12pm
    - Lee C
      
      Have you asked yourself if there is a reason perhaps it is beginning to saound like ‘an echo chmber’?
      
      For example becasue the truth refuses to go away dspite all those who claim we should just ‘move on’?
      
      I get it. It’s tedious to some. But the ones it is tedious to are often the same people for whom doing a bit of research, asking questions and raising objections was tedious too.
      
      So they just did as they were told.
      
      And here we are, still fighting against that same indolence, neglect and smugness.
      
      Even on a blogsight whihc was actually set up to discuss politics.
      
      So, if it shouldn;t be discussed here for fear of upsetting the easily bored, where should it?
      
      You’re welcome, by the way.
      
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      December 5, 2023 1:52pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      “But, for me, this site is one of a few I go to pretty much daily to get a sense of what is going on.”
      Seriously? Is the NZ media not doing that for you? Sad!
      Listen up Skippy, this is General Debate. We are all free to agree and disagree within the rules (which you do not make btw)
      There are other blogs that don’t allow that. Try the Strandard.
      
      From now on, ‘General Debate’ is non-Covid OK? Cos skippytony said so.//
      
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      December 5, 2023 2:53pm
  - kevn
    
    kk…. Those who haven’t lost any previously healthy active family or friends suddenly dying, or quickly becoming seriously ill in the jab debacle. Scroll down.
    
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    December 5, 2023 12:35pm
- BeaB
  
  Agree wholeheartedly. Time to move on
  We know they’ll stuff up the next pandemic, if there is one.
  No point raking over the coals. Just pray we never again get such a posturing cabal of incompetents.
  
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  December 5, 2023 11:29am
  - Damocles11
    
    The ‘Kovid Krazies’ have ruined the site. Obsessives with one track minds.
    
    14 16
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    December 5, 2023 11:44am
- goNZ1
  
  a brilliant idea Skippy!!
  
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  December 5, 2023 12:10pm
- Keith White
  
  In my view, a poll would be good. Let the majority decide what May Not Be Commented On. Sounds like a winner. Go for it.
  
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  December 5, 2023 12:41pm
  - MCōs
    
    I don’t think it’s a matter of what can or cannot be commented on, but rather a separate covid focused debate where protagonists can express their, often forthright, views.
    Next year everything else will be drowned out by Trump, I suppose. Especially if he starts losing some of these Court cases.
    
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    December 5, 2023 1:36pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Separate covid debate would be infested by trolls, for sure.
      Oh, MCos, Trump 2024!
      
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      December 5, 2023 3:00pm
    - Keith White
      
      I apologize, I forgot the /sarc tag. I denounce myself.
      
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      December 5, 2023 3:39pm
Jethrod

Well it’s 1056 now and it’s about to all go off.
The circus in all its wonderment.
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December 5, 2023 10:57am
Chuck Bird

I am watching the swearing in at Parliament. Some of the left are wearing Palestinian garb. It will be interesting to see if the Maori Party members swear allegiance to King Charles.
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December 5, 2023 11:15am
- gorse
  
  Great to see Robertson and co. Sitting on the opposition benches.
  
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  December 5, 2023 11:26am
  - pdm
    
    Was Robertson the only male without a tie?
    
    Probably could not do the top button of his shirt up.
    
    17 0
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    December 5, 2023 1:11pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Hung and dried, and he knows it.
      Watch for the resignation.
      
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      December 5, 2023 3:03pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  It is disgusting that MPs wear Hamas – Jew hating garb in Parliament.
  
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  December 5, 2023 11:46am
  - MCōs
    
    The keffiyeh has been used as a symbol of Palestinian nationalism for coming up to ninety years; far outdating Hamas, which was founded in 1987.
    BTW
    Are the Greens or anyone else that protests against Israeli excesses really pro Hamas? Or is it a smear tactic?
    
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    December 5, 2023 2:19pm
    - Jack5
      
      MCos (2.19 post), you mean like NZ gangs’ use of the swastika?
      
      Do gang members wear it as a Hindu blessing of good fortune and luck?
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
      
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      December 5, 2023 3:44pm
      - MCōs
        
        No²
        
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        December 5, 2023 4:54pm
- Damocles11
  
  Smart r’s. ‘Hare’ can mean Charles apparently, but ‘Harehare’ obviously doesn’t. In our meek and mild New Zealand you can brandish weapons in Parliament, break established protocol, and insult the King…and there is no mechanism to do one single thing about it.
  
  —————
  
  ‘But Ferris and party co-leader Rawiri Waititi later on did not stick exactly to the script, instead of “Kīngi Tiāre te Tuatoru”, or King Charles III in te reo, the two MPs referred to “Kīngi Harehare te Tuatoru”.
  
  Harehare can mean “scab”. Asked about this after the ceremony Waititi said “Hare” was also a term for Charles.
  
  “It’s what we say on the coast,” he said, adding – with a wry smile – he would never call the King a word such as “scab”.’
  
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  December 5, 2023 2:16pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Made up words can mean whatever you want them to mean.//
    
    7 0
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    December 5, 2023 3:13pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    “In our meek and mild New Zealand you can brandish weapons in Parliament.”
    Oh, it is only a weapon if you use it – like a butter knife.
    
    7 1
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    December 5, 2023 3:25pm
- Keith White
  
  In a very specific context, it is helpful – again for narrow views of helpful – that they are wearing these scarves etc.: because it makes it easier to identify those who would be entirely happy to have their racist predilections made policy and law. Those who want Gaza “Judenfrei” from the river to the sea have ideological analogues in those who want New Zealand “Europeanfrei”.
  
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  December 5, 2023 4:32pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Parliament. Freeview 31.
The sideshow has started.
Whatever his name is pledges allegiance to his mokopuna.
Some clearly don’t speak Maori and are making a real hash of it. Virtue signaling show ponies.
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December 5, 2023 11:31am
- Ghost
  
  And then he went down and pledged allegiance to the king, as they were always going to do
  
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  December 5, 2023 11:34am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Show pony. There is no need. It is all about them.
    
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    December 5, 2023 11:39am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Meant to add to that Ghost. How do you know he pledged allegiance to the King?
      I don’t speak te reo, most Kiwis do not, maybe you do?
      
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      December 5, 2023 3:16pm
      - Ghost
        
        I don’t speak Maori. Apart from the songs we sung in primary school. Most would have understand the maori word for king, Kīngi
        
        6 1
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        December 5, 2023 3:27pm
      - MCōs
        
        Some Nats, including the new mp for Maungakiekie, Greg Fleming, also used Te Reo.
        
        2 1
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        December 5, 2023 4:47pm
  - Keith White
    
    Well, you’ve gotta keep your access to the trough. The First Rule of Troughing.
    
    7 0
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    December 5, 2023 4:33pm
    - MCōs
      
      That’s no way to speak of Gerry Brownlee
      
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      December 5, 2023 4:49pm
- Damocles11
  
  Golriz Ghahraman shows up in Palestinian / Hamas garb and then proceeds to mangle the Maori language when reading the oath in Maori from a sheet of paper. An utter circus.
  
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  December 5, 2023 11:47am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I don’t see the point in rote learning a bunch of phrases in a language that you don’t understand. It is totally different for the few MPs who are clearly fluent in Maori. However, Julie Anne Genter was clearly struggling.
  
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  December 5, 2023 12:04pm
  - Ghost
    
    I’m surprised no point of order from the Māori party at the non Māori butchering their language
    
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    December 5, 2023 12:08pm
    - pdm
      
      No Speaker, so no one to receive the Point Of Order and control any debate on it.
      
      Noticeable that several of the pakeha Labour women in particular chose to MANGLE the oath in Maori instead of just getting it done in the main language of New Zealand – which is English.
      
      Virtue signalling is their main modus operandi>
      
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      December 5, 2023 1:17pm
      - Paulus
        
        Not yet is the Official language of New Zealand English.
        Only Sign Language and Maori are.
        
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        December 5, 2023 2:08pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @Paulus,
        “Aotearoan” English.
        Depends on who is running the show.//
        
        6 0
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        December 5, 2023 3:20pm
    - Keith White
      
      “The Struggle is Real.”
      
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      December 5, 2023 4:33pm
  - Keith White
    
    “The Enemy of my Enemy is my (Temporary) Friend.”
    
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    December 5, 2023 4:33pm
- Dougal10
  
  I hope Shane Jones is recording the butchering of a language he speaks fluently so he can use it against the virtue signalers, who are wrecking his language with a form of whitey maori.
  
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  December 5, 2023 1:56pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Shane Jones will be in the ear of many, when the time is right.
    
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    December 5, 2023 3:21pm
Benedict Yu

The circus is in progress.

https://ondemand.parliament.nz/
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December 5, 2023 11:33am
- cas
  
  Whoever was doing that calling for the young Maori Party girl woke my cat up.
  
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  December 5, 2023 11:51am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Now your cat speaks te reo!
    Congratulations.
    
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    December 5, 2023 3:27pm
- Mrs_Right
  
  It is a circus indeed.
  Only managed to watch couple of minutes of it.
  
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  December 5, 2023 12:25pm
Sparrow

On a totally different subject. I was surfing the net to see if I could find the reasons for the dramatic fall by kiwi school children in international tables for maths etc.
I came across this organisation AKO Aotearoa. I had never heard of them but apparently the government (taxpayers) bear the costs. I read all the info on their website. With all the jargon and the mandatory Māori headings and reference to the treaty. My interpretation happy to be corrected by bloggers more knowledgeable about our education system is that they are the teachers of the teachers. I asked a friend who was a teacher and he had not heard of them. I will not make any comment regarding this organisation but suggest bloggers look them up. It made me wonder how many more organisations like this there are and unknown to most of us and we are paying for them.
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December 5, 2023 11:44am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I think they are teachers of tertiary teachers.
  
  “Ako Aotearoa is a government-funded organisation committed to supporting the country’s tertiary sector teachers, trainers and educators be the best they can be for the learners’ success.”
  
  It all seems to be very heavy on wokeness:
  
  https://ako.ac.nz/about-us/our-work-2/
  
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  December 5, 2023 12:11pm
  - kevn
    
    BY… Looks to be a money sponge with no measurement of effectiveness. Self assessed as being ‘whakamataku’.
    
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    December 5, 2023 12:30pm
- Paulus
  
  Education Department I understand is run by ex Teachers and Unionists, and that is at the top end.
  They are a law unto them selves and anybody publically saying anything is at their mercy.
  They do not care what any Minister says they will continue to do what they want including Maorification of everything.
  The word School is an anathema so Kura is the word.
  
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  December 5, 2023 2:14pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/what-is-most-important-now-is-that-we-support-winston-seymour-and-jones/?

Under that there is a good piece by Cam Slater.
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December 5, 2023 11:55am
- sungsamning
  
  Emails sent. Thanks for the link.
  
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  December 5, 2023 5:22pm
Swifty

So, a woman in what her late 20s, early 30s, had a grandmother beaten for speaking Maori?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/te-pati-maori-protesters-stand-for-the-health-and-culture-of-future-generations-of-maori/KIJZEETT2BF5HNUOGXL2WEP2OM/

So likely to have been in the 1970s or 80s? Really?

I’d love to see some evidence. Like exactly when, by whom, where and within what context. The insinuation is that it was at a school.

Frankly I find this extremely hard to believe, but yet again it goes unchallenged. It’s ’her truth’ so I guess that’s all that matters.
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December 5, 2023 12:16pm
- Ghost
  
  Dover Samuel’s talking about it happening when he was 6.
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/398038/crown-should-apologise-to-maori-beaten-as-children-for-te-reo-says-dover-samuels
  
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  December 5, 2023 1:00pm
  - Swifty
    
    If so, then it was the 1940s. Far more believable. But back then you’ve also got to factor in the parent’s wishes – their wishes that their kids are taught English properly, given that they can talk Maori all they want at home.
    
    Not saying I agree with it, but I’m also not going to judge historical events through my modern eye.
    
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    December 5, 2023 2:00pm
    - Ghost
      
      And that’s the problem, people who today want to address issues that have nothing to do with us, it was a different kind of society that we have all progressed on from.
      
      13 0
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      December 5, 2023 2:03pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        I have heard the story of Maori kids being punished for speaking Maori. I started school in 1947 in Te Puke, which at that time had a very high Maori population. The Maori kids could speak Maori as much as they wanted in the playground etc. – that is how I learnt many common Maori words. But they were discouraged from speaking it in the classroom – which, I understand, was a request from a senior Maori politician in the ’30’s ?
        No Maori kids, as far as I can remember were ever punished for speaking Maori. From time to time the Maori kids went out the front of the class to sing some Maori action songs, and some of us pakehas actuall learnt them.
        I had many good Maori mates in those days & after I left school, playing rugby with & against them, joining them in the club or the pub for a
        beer. Those days are long past – I would say most of them have died now.
        The Good Old Days 🙂
        
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        December 5, 2023 3:19pm
      - Jack5
        
        Heaps of us were strapped for talking, chattering, in class.
        
        The language wasn’t the offence, it was just not shutting up.
        
        Was that Dover Samuel’s problem at school.
        
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        December 5, 2023 4:50pm
      - info@cruzpro.com
        
        I wanted to reply to Don Bekett but that option was not available.
        
        My hat is off to you sir if you started school in 1947 and are still around to post blogs today!!!!!
        
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        December 5, 2023 7:15pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The Library books have been burnt.//
  
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  December 5, 2023 3:44pm
- rouppe
  
  My sister was hit with steel rulers for speaking Dutch.
  
  Be 60’s
  
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  December 5, 2023 10:05pm
Benedict Yu

This new Green MP took her oath in Maori and then in Flemish. I bet that is a first 🙂
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December 5, 2023 12:22pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Was she choked up? lol
  
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  December 5, 2023 12:42pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I did like Melissa Lee taking her Oath, and then in Korean.
  
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  December 5, 2023 3:45pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  What is the relevance of Flemish in the NZ Parliament? Or Korean?
  
  You or your parents chose to COME HERE and LEAVE THE OLD COUNTRY behind. I’m not interested in your cultural background; I’m only interested in what you have to offer to NZ now and for the next three years.
  
  Save the old language for the expats club or whatever.
  
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  December 5, 2023 8:43pm
goNZ1

Waititty and mates just did a threatening haka during being sworn in including waving a weapon around – I am embarrassed for them.
Is it any wonder why family violence is so bad in NZ
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December 5, 2023 12:25pm
- I remember when
  
  Mere, mere, quite contrary.
  
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  December 5, 2023 1:32pm
  - Jack5
    
    Wow, the head gear on Maori Party MPs.
    
    Mostly colonial, such as cowboy.
    
    But why was Maori MP Ferris wearing pineapple head gear? What was that supposed to represent?
    
    Pineapples originate in South America.
    
    If any NZ MP should wear it, that would be the Member for Tijuana.
    
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    December 5, 2023 3:32pm
kevn

BY… How clever, aka look at me.
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December 5, 2023 12:26pm
Benedict Yu

Good to see Gerry Brownlee elected as Speaker. He is clearly well qualified.

BTW someone recently told me that he had heard Gerry sing back in the day 40+ years ago. He did the pub circuit in Christchurch as part of a duo – “The Manetti Brothers”.

https://static2.stuff.co.nz/1361525919/883/8341883.jpg?format=pjpg&optimize=medium
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December 5, 2023 12:40pm
- Ghost
  
  Good to see Rawiri Apologise for his Co-leader nominating someone else, he gave a better speech than I thought he would
  
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  December 5, 2023 12:49pm
  - MCōs
    
    Wash your mouth out
    
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    December 5, 2023 1:44pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That ‘someone else’ nomination had no seconder, so the Clerk refused.
    What was really going on there Ghost?
    
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    December 5, 2023 3:50pm
    - Ghost
      
      No, the clerk didn’t proceed it because Rurawhe declined the nomination
      
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      December 5, 2023 3:58pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Ah, and I thought is was the cowboy nominated.
        My mistake. I was having a Popa nap.
        
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        December 5, 2023 4:30pm
goNZ1

I wonder if the Hamas loving woke Green MPs wearing their garb realise what happened on Oct 7 in Israel? Well I will help them –
A “beautiful woman with the face of an angel’’ was raped by eight to 10 Hamas terrorists in Israel on Oct. 7, while another tragic victim was beheaded with a shovel while trying to defend herself, a stricken survivor says.
Yoni Saadon, a 39-year-old father of four, told the UK’s Sunday Times that he is still haunted by the horrific scenes he witnessed at the Nova Music festival, when the Hamas fiends slaughtered at least 364 festival-goers, including the gang-raped woman, who begged to be killed.
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December 5, 2023 12:47pm
- Keith White
  
  Fascinating that some people feel the need to downtick reports of actual events.
  
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  December 5, 2023 3:26pm
- Jack5
  
  Melon Greens. Green on the outside, Red on the inside. But now the Green is the Green of Islam.
  
  Why green is close to the hearts of Muslims:
  
  https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2009/06/why-is-the-color-green-so-important-in-the-muslim-world.html
  
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  December 5, 2023 3:38pm
- NothingLeft
  
  The Greens are coordinated large-scale gang-rape and child torture apologists.
  
  But it’s OK because their supporters are heavily indoctrinated ignorant morons who don’t think for themselves and operate on ‘feelz’.
  
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  December 5, 2023 3:59pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-lmpE-_0eU
Sir Ian Taylor on media bribery and leaving the I Am Hope board.
Go to NZ On Air, ask for the bribe, and remember to broadcast the gummints ‘truth’. Not a bribe at all // sarc. [7:34]
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December 5, 2023 12:55pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA3gaPVTC-I
Minister Shane Jones on Te Pāti Māori’s ‘Action Day’ protest.
Sean Plunket speaks to Regional Development Minister Shane Jones about Te Pāti Māori’s ‘Action Day’ protest. They’ll have their little ‘protest’; then take the oath in Maori so they can resume their seat on the gravy train. [6:06]
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December 5, 2023 12:56pm
- MCōs
  
  Shane Jones is a fine one to accuse others of being on a gravy train.
  Labour Party, leadership contender, dipped out, resigned and
  Appointed Pacific Economic Ambassador by Nats
  NZ First, Minister in Labour Admin (fancy that), Minister in National Admin (fancy that)
  
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  December 5, 2023 1:56pm
  - Keith White
    
    Those couches in Northland are like a gravity-fed black hole (that’s a region of spacetime where gravity is so strong that nothing, including light and other electromagnetic waves, has enough energy to escape it, in case someone wants to hiss ‘rayciss!’) so Shane at least broke free of that. Pity about the wantonly-distributed tax-dollars and porn-expenses-claims but clearly, we are all flawed.
    
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    December 5, 2023 3:28pm
greybeard

The maori party MPs pledged their allegiance to King Charles after all, after doing the same for their own connections.
Cunning.
Very, very cunning.
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December 5, 2023 12:57pm
- pdm
  
  They were probably never going to turn down the dosh from the trough.
  
  Best pay they will see in their lifetimes.
  
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  December 5, 2023 1:21pm
  - Swifty
    
    Careful there. Have you seen the Waipareira Trust salary expenses lately?
    
    Eye-watering.
    
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    December 5, 2023 1:55pm
    - peterwn
      
      How much of Trust resources benefit ordinary Maori? Or it it for the benefit for those already privileged?
      
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      December 5, 2023 2:12pm
      - Keith White
        
        To ask the question is to answer it.
        
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        December 5, 2023 3:29pm
      - Swifty
        
        Very good questions.
        
        6 0
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        December 5, 2023 3:48pm
      - sungsamning
        
        Zip, zilch, and nada.
        
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        December 5, 2023 5:27pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Johnny stays there for a reason.
      
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      December 5, 2023 4:33pm
- rouppe
  
  Thing is, you can’t really pledge allegiance to two different things.
  
  Because when they conflict, which takes precedence?
  
  The oath should be prescribed language. Deviate, and it doesn’t count.
  
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  December 5, 2023 10:00pm
Ghost

Te Tai Tonga MP Tākuta Ferris appears to have been sworn in as an MP, but it appears he may have insulted King Charles while doing so.

MPs are required to read an oath or affirmation. Ferris did so, while appearing to include an insult the Charles.

At first, Ferris pledged allegiance to Te Tiriti o Waitangi, tikanga and mokopuna.

Reading the formal oath, he said:

“Ko ahau ko Tākuta Ferris, e kī ana i runga i te pono, i te tika, i te ngākau tapatahi me te whakaū anō ka noho pirihonga, ka noho pūmau ki Kīngi harehare te tuatoru, me ōna kāhui whakaheke e ai ke te ture.”

Harehare can be used as an insult in te reo Māori, meaning a rash.

Article
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December 5, 2023 1:04pm
- nova
  
  Rawiri Waititi also said “kingi harehare te tuatoru”. Both appear to have used it quite deliberately, Ferris even paused after saying kingi before adding in harehare.
  
  I felt the behaviour of both of them was disgraceful.
  
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  December 5, 2023 1:14pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Actually, it’ll be interesting to see what Winston and Jones do. It’s an hilarious opportunity for them to prove a couple very useful points.
    
    Both TPM idiots tried to pretend they were using different meanings.
    
    Winston and Jones can take advantage of this by pointing out the ambiguity of Te Reo and therefore showing it isn’t actually fit for purpose for Government communications – we don’t want to insult people by misusing words that have different geographic meanings do we?
    
    Secondly, they can use it as evidence that the current interpretations of the Treaty are made through that same ambiguous lens and are therefore irrelevant.
    
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    December 5, 2023 1:46pm
  - Keith White
    
    Rawiri Waititi’s continued existence is the best argument ever for Matthew 10:29.
    
    “Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care.”
    
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    December 5, 2023 4:37pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Only just got back from tennis and realised I’d missed the swearing in ceremony.
  So watched the vid on the Horrid site.
  Features a couple of clowns from the Maori Party entering the chamber to take an oath of allegiance.
  
  BWAHAHAHAHAHA 😀
  
  God give me f**ing strength!!
  
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  December 5, 2023 2:40pm
- peterwn
  
  I would love to see the Cultural Report when he is sentenced to a stretch in the Tower.
  
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  December 5, 2023 5:07pm
Chuck Bird

I see the left in Parliament today wearing the Hamas gang rapist garb. They follow Me Too unless you are a Jew policy. These racist Jew hating hypocrites should not be allowed to wear that garb in Parliament.

Israel leads UN event on gender based violence during the Hamas attacks against Israel on October 7th

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm5KU1z8ZR4
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December 5, 2023 2:51pm
goNZ1

Another Welly sinkhole opens –
”Wellington loses 40 to 50 per cent of its water every day to leaks in the pipe network, and the region’s water pipes have hit the headlines for all the wrong reasons over the past few years, plagued by leaks, overflows and burst water mains.
Some pipes are 120 years old and deteriorating in combination with blockages from wet wipes, fats and oils.
Wellington Water chief executive Tonia Haskell revealed recently the cost of fixing Wellington’s decrepit water network will be “a billion dollars a year, every year, for ten years”.
I feel sorry for their Mayor if she reads this,its enough to drive a person to drink…
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December 5, 2023 2:54pm
- Vinicius
  
  I’m not from Wellington so I must ask this.
  
  How long has it been known that there are issues with Wellington’s water?
  
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  December 5, 2023 3:05pm
  - cmm
    
    Long enough that you would have thought the fine burghers of Wellington would vote for boring stuff like pipe fixing instead of drunken party girls and rainbow crossings.
    
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    December 5, 2023 3:15pm
    - Vinicius
      
      So instead of LGWM
      it should be
      LSWL = Let’s Stop Wellington Leaking?
      
      I heard someone talking to Sean Plunket the other day reckon that there are sewage issues as well?
      
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      December 5, 2023 3:26pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      One crossing, five years ago! For goodness sake cmm, what are you? Let it go!
      
      (See https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2023/10/general_debate_20_october_2023.html/comment-page-1#comment-3457242.)
      
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      December 5, 2023 7:22pm
  - MCōs
    
    I talked to Sir Francis Kitts about this when he was mayor.
    He said it was impossible to get the council to spend huge amounts of money on long term water maintenance when Joe Ratepayer couldn’t actually see anything for the resultant rate rises.
    It’s more politically expedient to repair the pipes as required.
    
    In Auckland right now the new 14.7km Central Interceptor wastewater tunnel is being constructed at a cost of $1.2bill. I wonder how many people know that or what it does?
    
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    December 5, 2023 4:34pm
  - rouppe
    
    Issues? Not sure about that.
    
    But I recall maintenance being deferred so other things could be done 20 years ago.
    
    The deferral have been going on so long, and anyone knows if you defer maintenance long enough it’s a big bill to fix it once it’s required due to failure.
    
    It’s disgraceful that 50% (I heard 60% the other day) of water is lost due to leaks before it reaches households.
    
    And the thing is, we’ve had Green mayors for over a decade. They’re supposed to be all over the environment. But they still spent money on diversity, not delivery.
    
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    December 5, 2023 9:55pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Mayor reads it every day…..
  
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  December 5, 2023 4:41pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Which is why ratepayers are told not to waste water, because Council hates competition.
  
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  December 5, 2023 8:48pm
cmm

OK, I personally think King Charles is a bit of a twat. That is me – in my personal capacity.

But he is also the head of state and any insults etc to him are an insult to the nation.

If TPM think King Charles should no longer be our head of state then fine, there is a process to follow to change that. Until that has been achieved, King Charles represents the people of NZ and swearing allegiance is really to the people of NZ.

Every New Zealander has been slighted.
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December 5, 2023 3:03pm
- Jack5
  
  The Governor-General is Maori.
  
  Maori Party MPs have insulted her.
  
  Here is a video with the previous Governor-General, Patsy Reddy, explaining (very briefly) the role of NZ’s Governor-General:
  
  https://youtu.be/hQulZwEA68Q?si=3kktl6enVqaGDLG3
  
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  December 5, 2023 3:17pm
- MCōs
  
  “there is a process to follow to change that”
  
  Where do we start?
  You can certainly sign me up.
  I believe it’s odd that a New Zealander can never be Head of State of New Zealand.
  That’s one side of the coin. Conversely many royalists, anpart from having an unconditional love for a deeply flawed family, are wary about how our Head of State would be chosen.
  
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  December 5, 2023 4:18pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    The start would have been changing the flag but ironically, Leftist activists hate Key so much that they voted to keep it to spite him.
    
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    December 5, 2023 4:36pm
    - Jack5
      
      Key’s flag was rat shit. Black – the colour of Pol Pot, of ISIS Islamic terrorists, of pirates.
      
      Bet he doesn’t want to change the state flag of Hawaii, a place he likes so much. That flat contains a Union Jack.
      
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      December 5, 2023 4:44pm
      - Jack5
        
        The state flag of Hawaii:
        
        https://www.britannica.com/topic/flag-of-Hawaii
        
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        December 5, 2023 5:13pm
      - Dudley Quaffquaff
        
        Also the colour of many of our national sports teams, and our passports. We are not obliged to cede our stuff just because bad people also use it
        
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        December 5, 2023 5:21pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      No they fucking didn’t!
      Lefties just hated Key – full stop!
      
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      December 5, 2023 4:48pm
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      Key’s flag referendum: which silver fern flag would you like then?
      
      The finalists were very average designs too.
      
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      December 5, 2023 7:02pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Yep. The Laser eyed kiwi would have been distinctive.
        
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        December 5, 2023 8:50pm
- kowtow
  
  Tieing in with GoNZ and chuck bird above relating to the disgusting Greens donning the garb symbolic of support for terrorist rapist mass murderers ;
  
  how is it all these extreme leftists /race baiters insist everyone “respects” their this that and the other , talking of treasures , cultural this that, protocols here and there etc
  
  And yet at the opening of parliament , a truly important and symbolic event , celebrating our democracy which is a true treasure historically / culturally etc
  
  that these clowns don’t have the basic manners , or decency to respect the day and the institution , and indeed
  
  all New Zealanders who believe in democracy and our history and traditions are insulted by these extremist morons.
  
  Where’s the outrage.
  
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  December 5, 2023 4:20pm
MCōs

Here’s an interesting article about the stolen vaccine data
https://x.com/caulfieldtim/status/1731750722583339044?s=61&t=yFkzCNMWRCaVt1p5eRxUog
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December 5, 2023 4:06pm
- dcrane
  
  Presumably you agree that the government should release its anonymised dataset and also begin its own careful statistical comparison of medical outcomes between vaccinated and unvaccinated Kiwis.
  
  This is the best way by far to restore confidence, something that is depserately needed (I assume you agree) since vaccination rates are plummeting in NZ.
  
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  December 5, 2023 4:26pm
  - Keith White
    
    I’m trying to be neutral here, but I can’t see that it’s gonna be possible to restore confidence. There are a whole lot of people who believe that the vaccine mandate saved everybody, including their grandparents; there are also a whole lot of people who believe that the vaccine mandate killed a lot of people, including their children and partners/husbands and wives.
    
    It’s no secret to which party I belong, but I don’t think there is an amicable solution in our future. I think we’re going to have an uncivil war (and by war, I don’t mean a shooting war. I think the shooting war is gonna come from Te Pati Maori. The vaccine war will be much less hollow-point-focused, and even more pointless).
    
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    December 5, 2023 4:41pm
    - dcrane
      
      There are probably a few more like me out there who could be convinced by thorough, good-faith analysis.
      
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      December 5, 2023 6:01pm
      - Keith White
        
        And where will you find that?
        
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        December 5, 2023 7:00pm
  - MCōs
    
    Are you saying that a detailed list of possible contributing factors should be released for every death?
    For example if a person died as the result of a stroke were they obese, elderly, smoker, drinker and so on? Or all of those conditions
    Of course anyone with an agenda might latch onto one of a number of factors
    
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    December 5, 2023 9:41pm
thirteenstars

The TV1 report about the “national day of protest” and the opening of parliament…

https://www. youtube.com/watch?v=7HAUz4x6LGY

…wherein an dimwitted reporter, Abbey Wakefield, informs us that when swearing allegiance, “some parties like to do it a little bit differently… Te Pati Maori decided to swear allegiance to the Treaty of Waitangi”, and then at no stage does she say that such an oath is completely informal or that all Maori Party members subsequently swore the correct oath to King Charles.

Obviously an attempt to distort the facts making it seem as if the Maori Party had defied parliament and owe allegiance only to the Treaty.

Te Media Pati.
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December 5, 2023 4:33pm
- thirteenstars
  
  The above link is malformed. Fixed link:
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HAUz4x6LGY
  
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  December 5, 2023 4:45pm
- Vinicius
  
  It isn’t just 1News who is in the tank for TPM.
  HDPA was praising the protest and numbers about 40 minutes ago on NewstalkZB. Done with her, she talks far too much bull.
  
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  December 5, 2023 4:53pm
  - Ghost
    
    I never heard her praising them, she said if they could get this turnout in a day, imagine what they can do when it maters
    
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    December 5, 2023 5:09pm
    - greybeard
      
      It is logical to think that they achieved their maximum public support at the last election.
      If they alienate people through their protests and childish behaviour I predict a reduction in their support.
      So they may be noisy and disruptive in future but not really a threat to NZ life.
      
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      December 5, 2023 5:36pm
      - Ghost
        
        I think what’s going to happen is that Luxon will do as he said, govern for all New Zealanders. Iwi will see that they are better placed with national than what labour did and the Māori party outrage will fade away to just the handful of Māori party mp’s.
        
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        December 5, 2023 5:40pm
Keith White

Abbey Wakefield gotta earn her pay. Like any media-strumpet.
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December 5, 2023 4:41pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  In the House.
  Labour switched sides with the National coalition.
  Where has this abbey been for the last six years? The Parties sit to the right of the Speaker and the Opposition are on the left of the Speaker.
  Another non news bullshit from the media.
  
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  December 5, 2023 4:58pm
  - graham
    
    In our house, SWMBO likes to watch TV1 News each night … but she will readily hit the skip button for any item which doesn’t interest us, is unimportant, or just plain pointless.
    
    I have a feeling tonight’s news will be one of the quicker ones …
    
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    December 5, 2023 5:21pm
  - thirteenstars
    
    Well-observed, Steve. I was going to mention that stupidity but couldn’t be bothered.
    
    It’s like Parliament for Pre-School. Listen, children, something strange has happened. Let me tell you a story…
    
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    December 5, 2023 7:17pm
NothingLeft

A particularly spicy lead up to 2024 US presidential election. What chances do people see of the following:
A/ Biden is still on the ballot come Nov 2024
B/ Trump is convicted of something pre-election
C/ Trump becomes president
D/ Republicans hold Congress and take Senate
I’m gonna say A/ 10%, B/ 95% C/ 30% D/70%
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December 5, 2023 4:59pm
- Vinicius
  
  The NY Times today is reporting that Christie is under heavy pressure to pull out to give Haley a better chance.
  
  5 1
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  December 5, 2023 5:08pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hah! Polls have Trump at about 60% support. Haley could add Christie’s 3% to her 12% and still not get within a bull’s roar.
    Trump doesn’t even have to bother with the candidate debates. His support is locked in.
    
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    December 5, 2023 5:22pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Jesus Mike, I have to uptick you again. Feeling alright sonny?
      
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      December 6, 2023 7:46am
  - sungsamning
    
    Excellent idea. She’ll go from no show, to a dogs show. And Governor Christie can become president of Taco Bell.
    
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    December 5, 2023 5:35pm
- All_on_Red
  
  A- No 100%
  B – Yes 100% but will win an Appeal eventually
  C- Maybe 40% but hope not. De Santis would be 100%
  D- Yes 80%
  
  6 1
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  December 5, 2023 5:12pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    https://babylonbee.com/news/nation-in-shock-after-gavin-newsom-murdered-on-live-tv
    ‘Authorities are still searching for three accomplices they say are persons of interest in the cold-blooded slaughter of California’s Governor. Alpharetta’s police chief named the three at-large suspects as Sean Hannity, Ron DeSantis, and a paper map of all the human poop covering San Francisco’s sidewalks.’
    
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    December 5, 2023 5:51pm
    - KH
      
      Tricky believing that site red. Be careful.
      
      3 3
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      December 5, 2023 6:29pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Its a Parody site KH
        Although it fooled CNN and other morons
        Eh Stalker
        lol
        So funny you’re still triggered
        
        1 1
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        December 5, 2023 7:57pm
      - Ghost
        
        Wait, isn’t CNN a parody site as well…..
        
        3 1
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        December 5, 2023 8:01pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        The funny thing- apart from Hamas misogynist rapey supporters like KH- is that CNN actually took the Babylon Bee literally and wrote about it!
        KH is triggered cause his arse is still burning at being exposed as following a Russian Propaganda website.
        Now I have my own pet stalker.
        Good boy, good boy- I think I’ll call you Trigger from now on
        Fetch Trigger Fetch
        
        1 1
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        December 5, 2023 8:06pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        “@StateDeptSpox
        : “It seems one of the reasons they (Hamas) don’t want to turn (Israeli) women over that they’ve been holding hostage… is they don’t want these women to be able to talk about what happened to them during their time in custody”
        
        So what happened to them
        #Rapists
        
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        December 5, 2023 8:09pm
      - KH
        
        I am just observant Red. Your thing is getting peoples views back to front, and from your wrong gauche assumption then pouring on the insults and abuse.
        Quite a few people actually.
        
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        December 5, 2023 9:09pm
    - info@cruzpro.com
      
      Can’t find corroboration on any news sites.
      
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      December 5, 2023 6:49pm
      - kevn
        
        all-on… Of course there is a non spoof headlines from the sister site, newsletter@notthebee.com Fact can be stranger than fiction.
        
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        December 5, 2023 8:48pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        kevn
        Its amazing how prescient the Babylon Bee has actually been.
        Nice to see the adage that the Left have no sense of humour is confirmed.
        Poor Trigger
        
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        December 5, 2023 8:59pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  A/ 90%
  B/ 100%
  C/ 40%
  D/ 40%
  
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  December 5, 2023 5:15pm
- Ghost
  
  A – zero, he won’t be standing
  B – 100% he’ll be convicted
  C- – I have doubts he will make it to the election
  D – 85% they’ll take both the house and senate
  
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  December 5, 2023 5:19pm
- MCōs
  
  Usually the incumbent is reelected pother that which seems obvious now never happens
  
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  December 5, 2023 9:23pm
Ghost

Good, it needs to happen to restore confidence back in the system

The Auditor-General plans to review vote-counting processes for future elections after the Electoral Commission found errors at several booth locations.

John Ryan’s review comes after the commission found multiple counting errors after the election, including more than 700 votes being missed from the final count due to data entry errors in 15 voting places.

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December 5, 2023 5:25pm
sirknz

This is going nowhere good:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/301020881/family-pay-tribute-to-hardworking-passionate-granddad-shot-dead-in-te-urewera-ranges

“Police previously said that a man, who is not thought to be known to the victim, is assisting them with their enquiries.”
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December 5, 2023 5:28pm
- Rumblestrip
  
  Almost certainly another case of a careless hunter failing to check his target.
  
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  December 5, 2023 6:26pm

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