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December 4, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 04 December 2023

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Maggie Pie

QUESTION OF THE DAY…

Will the DPM come to the aid of the COVID whistleblower?

https://twitter.com/CookersOzStyle/status/1731273706134179955
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December 4, 2023 8:08am
- pdm
  
  DPM? – Department of the Prime Minister?
  
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  December 4, 2023 8:16am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Warm.
    
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    December 4, 2023 8:20am
    - Matt Long
      
      Did Trump support the Shaman at the Capital demonstration? (“Insurrection.”)
      
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      December 4, 2023 8:23am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Think Seymour.
    
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    December 4, 2023 8:25am
    - stewmar
      
      Seymour is not the DPM, Winnie is.
      
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      December 4, 2023 8:38am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Yeah, I know. See below. I was in la la land.
        
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        December 4, 2023 9:02am
      - Rusty
        
        @stewmar
        I didn’t know David Seymour is an Auckland Grammar school old boy like Paul Goldsmith and Wayne Brown.
        
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        December 4, 2023 9:36am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Why did I write Seymour there. Got is wrong – miles away.
      
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      December 4, 2023 8:42am
    - Dave
      
      Aha, an almost revealing clue (Peters would be better) which makes slightly more sense than the look-up function on my browser – disruptive pattern material? damp proof membrane? drum pad machine?
      
      Though an entirely reasonable abbreviation, in a roundabout way this is evidence against government departments’ and news media’s use of Maori terms to communicate in English with the vast majority of NZers.
      
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      December 4, 2023 8:46am
  - Grunter
    
    Deputy PM (Winston)
    
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    December 4, 2023 8:37am
- Burtland
  
  in the NZherald
  
  MoH CEO Margie Apa says
  
  “Vaccination is safe and effective, and everyone should keep up to date with their shots to protect themselves, whānau and their communities.”
  
  She assured people there was no evidence whatsoever that vaccination is responsible for excess mortality in New Zealand.
  
  So we have an admission by the head of MoH that we have an excess mortality issue. Pity she couldnt tell us why.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/police-arrest-man-in-connection-with-alleged-te-whatu-ora-mass-privacy-breach-of-covid-vaccination-data/SF3KR4MIJRGXRPXMB22XND74D4/
  
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  December 4, 2023 8:25am
  - krazykiwi
    
    “She assured people there was no evidence whatsoever that vaccination is responsible for excess mortality in New Zealand.”
    
    Bare faced lying.
    
    There is evidence, from a tsunami of sources which now include the MoH data leak.
    
    The government has not yet found a way to bury this evidence, but they’re trying which is reprehensible.
    
    Dr Reti: Please publish an anonymized , record-level dataset and let the world evaluate the evidence. If the claims of a causative, proximal relationship between Covid-19 vaccines and excess deaths are bunk then this will be obvious. Refusing to release that data confirms you have something to hide. What are you hiding, and why?
    
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    December 4, 2023 9:53am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Here is some logically consistent, intelligent (and recently updated) commentary from Prof Normal Fenton**: The New Zealand vaccine data: what I actually saw and analysed and what the limitations are. Recommended reading.
      
      ** Prof Fenton (MSc, PhD) is professor of risk management at Queen Mary University of London. Standing by for surfing, milky et al to outline why this guy is one of the crazies.
      
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      December 4, 2023 1:26pm
      - david in Aus
        
        Leaps of logic in reading Prof Norm Fenton opines. In regards to the claim that batches of Pfizer vaccines caused deaths. There was no information on whom they given to.
        For example, I would have expected covid vaccines to be given to all high- level care patients in rest-homes. With or without a pandemic the expected death rate in these patients high.
        
        For example, in 2018, the mortality rate was over 30% over three years for nursing home residents in a Norway survey. PLoS One. 2018; 13(9): e0203480
        So one claim easily claim that covid vaccines ’caused’ these deaths in rest homes if you have no context.
        
        That is why we have pharmacovigilance. And we have randomised controlled trials to account for confounders like these, a valid comparison group.
        
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        December 4, 2023 2:12pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        “That is why we have pharmacovigilance. And we have randomised controlled trials to account for confounders like these, a valid comparison group”
        
        There was zero pharmacovigilance from MedSafe, other than following the TGA to recommend against the Pfizer vax for kids … but Ardern ignored this went ahead jabbing kids. There have been zero RCTs in New Zealand, and even Pfizer’s own trials removed adverse event sufferers before recording statistics.. after which they unblinded the control group before antibody levels dropped (they knew this timing in advance).
        
        Crime upon crime, and yet you bleat ‘no evidence!’ incessantly.
        
        If it’s all the same to you, david, I’ll take my own research and the advice of Prof. Fenton over yours in approximately 100% of instances.
        
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        December 4, 2023 5:39pm
  - david in Aus
    
    There is no evidence of covid vaccines being related to excess deaths. Singapore which has a similar vaccination rates put out a report. Most of the excess deaths were within 90 days of Covid Infections. The most likely explanation is underlying medical infections made worse by covid. Covid has been shown to increase of developing heart attacks and strokes. If covid vaccines increase deaths, you should have seen this in young people. Which hasn’t been the case.
    
    Report on excess mortality during
    the COVID-19 pandemic up to June
    2022
    https://www.moh.gov.sg/docs/librariesprovider5/resources-statistics/reports/report-on-excess-mortality-during-the-covid-pandemic-18sep2022.pdf#page=8
    
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    December 4, 2023 11:46am
    - david in Aus
      
      Note from the Singapore report. There is no evidence of excess death rates outside of covid infections.
      
      Also, the UK government reports database of mortality rates by month, year, and covid vaccine status. They age standardise rates.
      
      Unfortunately, people without statistical training make wrong inferences from raw data without further analysis. For example, death rates increase after covid vaccines.
      
      It is like saying death rates increased after higher hospitalisation. Thus the erroneous conclusion being hospitals caused increase death rates, and forgetting why they are in hospitals.
      Once you have fixed beliefs it is hard to change minds.
      
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      December 4, 2023 12:19pm
      - mawm
        
        David – do you have references for your claim that covid increases heart attacks and strokes?
        
        If you read Prof Norman Fenton’s substack you will see his analysis of the UK data. You might need to go to the beginning to follow his analysis. I think he probably has some statistical training.
        
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        December 4, 2023 2:47pm
      - david in Aus
        
        Is it possible to differentiate if excess deaths were due to covid or the vaccine?
        
        We have data from the US, those states with the lowest vaccination rates had twice the excess mortality compared to the highest vaccination states.
        https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2798990
        
        Although it is not conclusive, it will be difficult to make the claim that covid vaccines causes excess deaths if those higher vaccinated states had lower death rates.
        
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        December 4, 2023 5:38pm
      - mawm
        
        Actually David they hid the deaths from the vaccines by only counting a person vaccinated 14 days after. Most vaccine deaths occur in that period, especially the first 48 hours. Those numbers you quote mean nothing. Also the States and countries with the lowest vaccination rates had the lowest mortalities time and time again.
        
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        December 4, 2023 6:20pm
      - dcrane
        
        David in Aus surely you know the problem with comparing American states that way. The states with the lowest vaccination rates tend to have much higher rates of obesity and other comorbidities that increase harm from covid. In other words, there is a large healthy vaccinee problem to deal with. Have you seen the papers showing how covid vaccination reduces your odds of a traffic accident?
        
        But it is true that it is difficult to disentangle the separate effects of covid and the vaccine on excess mortality. There is also some reason to suspect that the two interact with one another, for example worse cardio symptoms when a person is vaccinated at the time of a contemporaneous covid infection. As for example Fig. 1 in this paper.
        https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-33862-0
        
        In any event there is no meaningful question about, for example, the distressing rates of myocarditis/pericarditis occurring after mRNA vaccination, especially in children – people who need these vaccines the least. Heart tissue does not repair well so such damage is highly concerning even if death does not immediately result and things stabilize after scarring.
        
        The entire platform is a terrible design for vaccination (as opposed to gene therapy). The lipid nanoparticles can penetrate all cell types, I believe. Anything with a lipid membrane. And the platform is designed to make the immune system attack the tissues that are transfected. This is why we were allowed to believe, incorrectly for so long, that the shot “stays in the arm”. It most definitely does not. Especially if you’re the unlucky one and the doctor hits a large blood vessel. This may be one of the routes to extreme harm.
        
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        December 4, 2023 6:50pm
      - david in Aus
        
        @dcrane. Yes, comparing observational data can be fraught with confounders. So you cannot be definitive with your conclusions.
        However, states with lower vaccination rates have twice the mortality rate, which is contrary to what you expect covid vaccine was the cause of excess deaths. If we are led to believe that covid vaccine causing all these deaths, you would see that in the data. Shouldn’t it overwhelm obesity rates, poverty etc. If not, why the fervent belief from anti-vaxxers.
        
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        December 4, 2023 8:22pm
      - dcrane
        
        David in Aus
        I don’t know if it should overwhelm all of those deaths.
        From reading for almost 3 years I think the mRNA covid vaccines look to be multiple orders of magnitude more risky than most shots we are used to.
        Ordinary severe advere harm like deaths is usually like 1 in 10 million, maybe 1 in a million vaccinated, for ordinary vaccines.
        These could be 1 in 5,000, perhaps.
        Note that this wouldn’t be detectable in the woefully underpowered Phase III trials, not if some of the deaths happen more than 3 months in.
        There is also a suggestion that vaccination interacts with covid infection, as if vaccine outcomes are worse if shots happen to be given close in time to an infection, which would make the pattern more complex.
        Thing is, 1 in 5000 is not a major absolute risk, even though it is much worse than what has been allowed to date. It’s not a tsunami of deaths, nor is it a rate that the average person would be able to see among their known contacts, which will number only a few hundred or less.
        We need to pressure the government, who are the only ones with data sufficient to study this question well, to conduct a thorough comparison of outcomes of vaccinated and unvaccinated.
        
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        December 4, 2023 9:54pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      “There is no evidence of covid vaccines being related to excess deaths”
      
      If one is not looking for evidence, no. There is also no evidence of the sun if one isn’t looking for it.
      
      But for anyone with their eyes open …
      
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      December 4, 2023 1:39pm
      - david in Aus
        
        “There is also no evidence of the sun if one isn’t looking for it”- Very profound. And how does this relate to evidence?
        In medicine, we have moved away from anecdotes and feelings. It separates us from witch-craft. During the Salem witch trials- it was ‘obvious’ to many that witches caused all sorts of maladies. You just needed to open your eyes!
        
        Large randomised control trials are the gold-standard because it removes most confounder effects. These RCTs has shown covid vaccines reduce death and hospitalisation rates.
        
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        December 4, 2023 1:58pm
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        David in aus – are these RCTs you reference the ones that led Medsafe being unable to approve the vaccine on safety grounds?
        
        Arguments about the vaccine can become very circular and result in the actual issue being forgotten.
        
        The questions that you should be asking and the media should be asking are “what is causing the excess deaths?” “what work is being done to work this out?”
        
        Why has it taken this data leak for the ministry to acknowledge there are excess deaths?
        
        Why isn’t the media asking those questions?
        
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        December 4, 2023 5:42pm
      - dcrane
        
        david in Aus
        Certainly in terms of serious adverse events, the large randomised controlled trials did not come out as you might think:
        
        https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36055877/
        
        Serious adverse events of special interest following mRNA COVID-19 vaccination in randomized trials in adults
        
        Fraiman et al.
        
        Abstract
        
        Introduction: In 2020, prior to COVID-19 vaccine rollout, the Brighton Collaboration created a priority list, endorsed by the World Health Organization, of potential adverse events relevant to COVID-19 vaccines. We adapted the Brighton Collaboration list to evaluate serious adverse events of special interest observed in mRNA COVID-19 vaccine trials.
        
        Methods: Secondary analysis of serious adverse events reported in the placebo-controlled, phase III randomized clinical trials of Pfizer and Moderna mRNA COVID-19 vaccines in adults (NCT04368728 and NCT04470427), focusing analysis on Brighton Collaboration adverse events of special interest.
        
        Results: Pfizer and Moderna mRNA COVID-19 vaccines were associated with an excess risk of serious adverse events of special interest of 10.1 and 15.1 per 10,000 vaccinated over placebo baselines of 17.6 and 42.2 (95 % CI -0.4 to 20.6 and -3.6 to 33.8), respectively. Combined, the mRNA vaccines were associated with an excess risk of serious adverse events of special interest of 12.5 per 10,000 vaccinated (95 % CI 2.1 to 22.9); risk ratio 1.43 (95 % CI 1.07 to 1.92). The Pfizer trial exhibited a 36 % higher risk of serious adverse events in the vaccine group; risk difference 18.0 per 10,000 vaccinated (95 % CI 1.2 to 34.9); risk ratio 1.36 (95 % CI 1.02 to 1.83). The Moderna trial exhibited a 6 % higher risk of serious adverse events in the vaccine group: risk difference 7.1 per 10,000 (95 % CI -23.2 to 37.4); risk ratio 1.06 (95 % CI 0.84 to 1.33). Combined, there was a 16 % higher risk of serious adverse events in mRNA vaccine recipients: risk difference 13.2 (95 % CI -3.2 to 29.6); risk ratio 1.16 (95 % CI 0.97 to 1.39).
        
        Discussion: The excess risk of serious adverse events found in our study points to the need for formal harm-benefit analyses, particularly those that are stratified according to risk of serious COVID-19 outcomes. These analyses will require public release of participant level datasets.
        
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        December 4, 2023 6:58pm
      - david in Aus
        
        @dcrane “Serious adverse events of special interest following mRNA COVID-19 vaccination in randomized trials in adults”
        
        Reasonable conclusions, in medicine we should alway strive to balance risks and benefits. The benefits of vaccines to healthy young people are not particulary profound, as the risk of the covid for this group is not high. Although the relative risk of myocarditis etc from COVID-19 is higher than vaccines, the absolute rates are still low.
        
        These are reasonable discussions of Risk/benefit ratios in different groups. Although the benefits outweight the harms in all groups, the marginal impact in the younger groups makes the recommendation to vaccinate in this group relatively weak in my opinion. That being said, my children were vaccinated. The probability of catching covid was high, it turned out to be 100%. And the benefits outweighed the minuscule risks. Moreover, it was free.
        
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        December 4, 2023 8:38pm
    - mawm
      
      David in Aus – then how do you explain the WA deaths when the vaccine roll out began and before there were any covid cases?
      
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      December 4, 2023 2:32pm
      - david in Aus
        
        I am looking at WA and Australian data. I am not sure how you draw the inference that covid vaccines were related to mortality.
        
        In 2020, there was negative 617 deaths. 2021, 98 excess deaths; 2022, 1009 excess deaths (wa).
        In 2021, with covid vaccine rollout in wa, there weren’t significant excess deaths. Except for the delayed ones from the previous year.
        
        The graphs from Australia shows mortality rates increasing with covid waves in those states affected such as vic and nsw. Overall, with all the states, the expected and actual deaths weren’t that different. The first year of covid there were less deaths probably due less infections in general due to isolation. The next year, some catch up. The real excess deaths were in Victoria due to covid. Have a look at the abs.gov.au website for the graphs.
        
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        December 4, 2023 4:34pm
      - david in Aus
        
        People can look at the Australia data/graphs themselves. They compare expected and actual, breakdown between the states and timeline with the covid waves.
        https://www.abs.gov.au/articles/measuring-australias-excess-mortality-during-covid-19-pandemic-until-first-quarter-2023#weekly-all-cause-mortality-western-australia
        
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        December 4, 2023 4:41pm
      - david in Aus
        
        You make a great point, comparing between different Australian states and their different covid outcomes illustrates the effects of covid and not the vaccine. You can see the excess deaths were from covid and not the vaccines. Excess deaths were in the covid states of VIC and NSW. WA death rates were within 95% confidence interval of expected except for the last year when covid was prevalent. I am not sure you looked at the data yourself but it is clearcut.
        
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        December 4, 2023 5:26pm
      - mawm
        
        David – in 2021 there were 47 deaths reported as having occurred within 21 days of vaccination. Because all countries have been counting the first 2 weeks following vaccination as being unvaccinated and because the majority of vaccinated deaths occur in the first 14 days, especially the first 48 hours, the deaths are recorded as unvaccinated. The elderly have been particularly affected but, as one can imagine, when an elderly relative in a care home dies after a vaccine most people will ascribe it to their age/frail condition. We are probably only seeing the tip of the iceberg.
        
        Further when we look at the WA data for adverse events, especially the severe adverse events are alarming – for example the rates of Myopericarditis in 25 – 29 year olds for Spikevax is 21.4 /100 000 after the first vax and for in the 18 – 24yo Comrinaty 11.6/100 000. What does this translate into years of life lost? How many of these youngsters will develop a cardiomyopathy prematurely?
        There are also tables for VITT, ITP, Guillain-Barre that are alarming – and yet they continued to push vaccine.
        The data is there, one has to parse it out.
        
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        December 4, 2023 5:53pm
      - david in Aus
        
        @mawm. “in 2021 there were 47 deaths reported as having occurred within 21 days of vaccination”
        You need to be more specific. Where did you get this from and what is the comparison rate? There are always going to be people to die within a 21 day period because of old age, heart disease etc. You need a comparison rate.
        When I review reports of those deaths- they generally say they weren’t related to the vaccine. Remember, a road traffic accident can occur after a vaccine, the same as anything else.
        
        In regards to vaccine related myocarditis, the rates are higher in young males. But it is generally accepted that covid virus causes higher rates of myocarditis compared to vaccines. Thankfully, most recover without long-term consequences.
        
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        December 4, 2023 6:36pm
      - dcrane
        
        It’s funny, all this focus on whole-population metrics like all-cause mortality, when we have national level data, extremely granular, with near-perfect knowledge on which persons have been vaccinated or not, and how many times, and when, and what their detailed medical histories have been before and during the vaccination period, and what their physical and demographic attributes are. In other words, we could study this problem and arrive at very confident conclusions. And it could all be done with anomymity.
        
        But our government is not interested in doing so, and our media are not interested in even asking the question.
        
        Even though vaccination rates are plummeting in NZ, a problem the govt could address with a convincing analysis.
        
        No question in my mind they either know the data are bad or they are unwilling to face facts if they turn out that way.
        
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        December 4, 2023 7:03pm
      - david in Aus
        
        @dcrane. “It’s funny, all this focus on whole-population metrics like all-cause mortality, when we have national level data, extremely granular”.
        
        NZ statistics can be a bit limited. I am sure over time it will released. Luckily, we have data from Australia which is more illustrative. Because it compares different states as they had different experiences with covid but had the same vaccine rollout. They analysed it well, comparing deaths with expected deaths and overlaying with covid epidemics.
        
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        December 4, 2023 8:46pm
      - dcrane
        
        David in Aus:
        With respect to Australia, the same should be demanded: A thorough statistical comparison of medical outcomes of the known vaccinated versus the known unvaccinated.
        We shouldn’t have to massage information out of complex demographic models. The data are available in these countries with centralised healthcare systems.
        Note that after so much boosting there is excellent opportunity to look for dose dependence as well.
        
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        December 4, 2023 10:00pm
  - NoFax
    
    Tobacco companies for decades said there is no
    “evidence” that cigarettes “caused” lung cancer. In part, they refused to ever publish the evidence and more studies needed to be done!
    The word evidence can mean different things in different circumstances – law, medicine, and everyday use. The CEO is using the word equivocally. She means in it the medical sense but hopes people understand it in the everyday use. Dishonest but not technically a lie.
    
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    December 4, 2023 3:22pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The reasoning from tobacco companies could be that non-smokers get cancer.
      
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      December 4, 2023 3:56pm
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Well I guess this all more important than Epsteins client list . Oh look there’s a squirrel.
    
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    December 4, 2023 4:58pm
- kowtow
  
  Liz Gunn is not wrong . Stand up to tyranny or become a prisoner.
  
  Interesting how the narrative creates a saint out of the likes of Greta Thunberg or even our very own host of young Green empowered wimmin and yet when a woman stands up to establishment tyranny be it trans , covid or race equality they are cast as nutters or dangerous .
  That’s a tactic straight out of Stalinist ( and Putin’s ) Russia , and yet we it here in ‘free democratic liberal NZ , and its biggest exponent is Te Pahti Media .
  
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  December 4, 2023 8:31am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It may be worth re-reading Krazykiwi’s posts of the last few days. The dataset he was going to look at has disappeared (how about that?)
  The tyrant Ardern is donkey deep in this imo.
  
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  December 4, 2023 8:40am
  - mawm
    
    Steve – she was just a vehicle for other interests. I can imagine the CIA is furiously scrubbing the internet. Rumble is standing firm.
    
    Reality Check Radio has 3 interviews done by Peter Williams and dated 1 Dec that are very good, and interesting.
    
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    December 4, 2023 8:46am
  - krazykiwi
    
    More info here: Update – NZ Whistleblower. Extract: –
    
    New Zealand’s government obtained an injunction prohibiting the spread of the data. Steve Kirsch’s hosting account was terminated, and he moved the data to a new account.
    
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    December 4, 2023 9:43am
    - Lenticular
      
      Why do none of these amateurs ever stick these things on bittorrent or 4chan or scribd or some Russian social media platform before the inevitable injunction?
      
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      December 4, 2023 7:06pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    I don’t know why this is regarded as new info. Our world in data has shown excess death data from covid years without pause. It’s clear that 2000 more kiwis died in covid+flu free 2021 than covid + flu free 2020, with the only major difference being the covid vaccination programs.
    
    So strong indication that about 1 in 2000 kiwis died due to vaccination in 2021, a 5% uptick in deaths for the year but 10% during ~6month vaccination program period, concentrated in elderly.
    
    Guy Hatchard covered this in detail 18 months back.
    https://hatchardreport.com/video-evidence-2000-excess-deaths-in-nz-while-pfizer-vaccine-rolled-out/
    
    [Mod – fixed date]
    
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    December 4, 2023 10:15am
    - Ghost
      
      I think you have your dates wrong, vaccine rollout started in 2021
      
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      December 4, 2023 10:18am
      - NothingLeft
        
        [Mod – I’ve fixed it for you]
        
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        December 4, 2023 11:31am
    - david in Aus
      
      I think you are forgetting the effects of the covid virus. Covid virus occured at the time of the vaccine. You need to account for confounders. You can’t forget the elephant in the room.
      
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      December 4, 2023 12:01pm
      - wsk12345
        
        There was no covid in the first vaccination year. We were still “keeping it out” with closed borders and “stamping it out”, remember.
        
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        December 4, 2023 12:15pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        No, I am not. Covid prevalence in NZ during 2020 and 2021 was near zero in both years – with minor outbreaks and tiny numbers. 2162 cases in 2020 (more dangerous early variants), 12000 in 2021, but only 2000 cases up to October 2020, by which point excess deaths were already crazy high, followed by mostly safer Omicron in nov-dec 2020, 30 covid deaths in 2020 and just 29 in 2021. Yet 2000 more excess deaths in 2021 than 2020. It sticks out like dogs balls.
        
        https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/new-zealand/
        
        https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01..latest&facet=none&uniformYAxis=0&country=~NZL&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=Confirmed+deaths&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=true&Color+by+test+positivity=false
        
        Yet there is huge increase in excess deaths in 2021 vs 2020:
        
        https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01..latest&facet=none&uniformYAxis=0&country=~NZL&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=Excess+mortality+%28count%29&Interval=Cumulative&Relative+to+Population=true&Color+by+test+positivity=false
        
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        December 4, 2023 12:34pm
      - david in Aus
        
        Most of the excess deaths were time related to covid epidemics not vaccines.
        
        You saw that in America. Death certificates under counted covid. Many people died at home, doctors didn’t test for covid. For people/families, against vaccines it was too embarrassing to have covid as the cause. But the time relationship between epidemics and excess deaths was clear.
        
        For observational data afterwards you need to parse between different causes of deaths. That is, compare deaths rates between the vaccinated and non vaccinated. That is more tricky, that is why randomised controlled trials are the gold standard. Randomised controlled trials showed death rates were much lower for those vaccinated.
        
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        December 4, 2023 12:58pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        NZ assiduously tracked all cases of covid in 2020 and 2021. Millions and millions of tests. It wasn’t some hidden leviathan as you seem to be implying, essentially all cases were identified until late 2020 Omicron surge well after excess deaths had spiked up.
        
        A population wide ‘control’ test like this on 4 million vaccinated people who didn’t yet have covid is statistically far superior to relatively tiny and statistically underpowered RCTs – which were (in Pfizer case):
        – badly done, with no follow up looking for harms, for example no blood tests that might have shown elevated troponin levels post vax.
        – abandoned control group (vaccinated a few months after start, making it impossible to look for long term differential harms in control vs vaccinated)
        – had higher death rates and cardiac incidences in vaccinated than unvaccinated, but not statistically significant due to being too small
        – (haven’t checked this myself, but..) suspect statistics on overall death rates compared to population suggestive of enrollment or other selection gaming.
        
        The RCT’s were not big enough to find a 1 in 2000 increased death rate with any certainty, even though from memory more cardiac events did occur in vaccinated arm of study.
        
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        December 4, 2023 2:04pm
      - david in Aus
        
        @wsk1234. I saw the data from the US. Excess deaths increased before covid vaccines became available. Perhaps, covid vaccines had nothing to with it. Unless biology is different between the US and NZ.
        
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        December 4, 2023 2:25pm
      - wsk12345
        
        David in Aus – Let’s focus on NZ shall we – given it’s a near perfect case study with almost no covid until most of the population was jaxxed.
        
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        December 4, 2023 5:29pm
      - mawm
        
        David – apologies for accidentally reporting you!
        
        Two things – one cannot exclude a death due to the vaccines without an autopsy. There has to be testing for nucleocapsid antibodies and the correct staining of all tissues to differentiate between spike protein from vaccine or virus. This can be done. The Fauci/WHO crowd actively discouraged autopsies from being done so we simply cannot ascribe cause. There were several observational studies done that had very similar results pointing to vaccine being the cause of death. Dr Peter McCollough wrote a paper where he collated all these studies to get a statistically significant result. It was put out as a pre peer reviewed paper but later rejected by the journal for some spurious reason (amazing how often this happens!!!)
        
        The Bradford-Hill criteria point to the opposite to what you say to when it comes to temporal correlation to either infection or vaccine. One does have to take into account that every time there was a new outbreak the vaccinators got busy. The real elephant in the room was a deliberate failure to do autopsies with proper tissue staining and antibody testing. It’s almost as if they didn’t want to find out that vaccines were killing people.
        
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        December 4, 2023 6:12pm
- mawm
  
  Maggie – not one elected representative will have the courage to stand up for him.
  
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  December 4, 2023 8:42am
- Grunter
  
  And will NZ Law be followed?
  People who report serious wrongdoing in the workplace can be protected by the Protected Disclosures Act 2000.
  
  “An employee can make a protected disclosure (sometimes called ‘whistleblowing’) when they report serious wrongdoing in the workplace that they reasonably believe is true or likely to be true.”
  
  And Reti has just lost all my support for him after his statement over the weekend…
  “There are many conspiracy theorists out there who unfortunately disseminate harmful disinformation, however, as Minister and as a physician, the public can and should continue to have confidence in vaccines. I am reassured by experts confirming that there is no evidence supporting the allegations that have been made.”
  WTF?
  
  Time for Winston to step up and deliver on the single reason he was voted in. His silence so far is ominous as he doesn’t typically think before he speaks!
  
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  December 4, 2023 8:47am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Reti has just lost my support too. He clearly has done zero primary research on the topic and is getting his advice from CDC, FDA et al
    
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    December 4, 2023 9:00am
    - Lee C
      
      I really didn’t expect anything different.
      
      I voted National to get Labour out. but held my nose.
      
      I was never under any illusion on this subject that they were any less mindless than Ardern and co were.
      
      They are like chickens huffily declaring that KFC is a humane organisation.
      
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      December 4, 2023 9:30am
    - Simon
      
      Reti had no option even if he understood the jaxx is killing people. If Nat came out and said there will be a review on the jaxx kill rate, GAE would wreck NZ with inflation & interest rate rises and National would be a one term govt.
      
      Jaxx kill rate is international, not just NZ. GAE would crush NZ like a bug.
      
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      December 4, 2023 9:41am
      - Local Miller
        
        GAE? Google App Engine?
        
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        December 4, 2023 11:13am
      - muzled
        
        Global American Empire??
        
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        December 4, 2023 12:41pm
    - kevn
      
      kk… Indeed, hard to know what the dynamics are. Maybe the Pfizzer contract says something we don’t know about. Like a muscular version of the PIJF contract.
      
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      December 4, 2023 9:44am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Kevn
        
        If the last government can unilaterally suspend the human rights of all New Zealanders then surely this government can suspend the contractural rights of a foreign commercial entity.
        
        Who has precedence, Kiwis or Pfizer ?
        
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        December 4, 2023 10:04am
      - nzgoose
        
        The apparent albainian pfizzer contract was leaked showing that the government was responsible for all costs in defending Phizer so we are in a loose loose situation.
        
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        December 4, 2023 12:39pm
    - Matt Long
      
      Reti’s stand on the Vax was obvious long before the election, how can people act surprised?
      Also the data available in terms of early adverse reactions to the vax is according to reports at the time flawed, as there was a refusal to to record Vax adjacent health events as adverse reactions.
      
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      December 4, 2023 10:55am
      - mawm
        
        Matt – and the failure to do autopsies with the correct staining to identify vaccine spikes is a criminal conspiracy to hide vaccine deaths.
        
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        December 4, 2023 11:23am
  - Littletramp
    
    The game changed when they changed the definition of a vaccine. Many were pro-vaccine until they tried to claim the new technology Covid injections were vaccines.
    
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    December 4, 2023 9:04am
  - Sacha
    
    I agree with your opinion of Reti ‘. . . . . . the public should continue to have confidence in vaccines. I am reassured by experts confirming there is no evidence supporting the allegations . . . . . .’
    
    To say I am disappointed is an understatement.
    
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    December 4, 2023 9:10am
    - kevn
      
      Sacha… Problem is that he has said a broad brush comment, it could be construed to include measles, tetanus etc.
      
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      December 4, 2023 10:06am
      - Local Miller
        
        Yup, part of the problem. Some will see the inclusion of all vaccines as an indication that historical vaccines are in the same class as the C-Jax, and lose faith in the historical vaccines.
        Strike another blow for downgrading our vaccine rates.
        
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        December 4, 2023 11:17am
  - mawm
    
    “I am reassured by experts confirming that there is no evidence supporting the allegations that have been made.” It’s called plausible deniability – others have told him!
    
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    December 4, 2023 9:23am
  - rouppe
    
    This kind of statement really makes my eyes squint…
    
    I am reassured by experts confirming that there is no evidence supporting the allegations that have been made.
    
    “Reassured by experts.” That’s what happened with tobacco.
    “No evidence supporting.” Also straight out of the tobacco industry, but also, it doesn’t say whether anyone has looked. Of course there’s no evidence from experts supporting the theory if no-one has looked…
    
    I don’t know what the truth is.
    
    The person anonymising the data suggests good intentions, but you can’t get past the fact that he accessed private data for his own purpose. If I did that, with access to some of the data I have, I’d be crucified.
    
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    December 4, 2023 9:30am
  - KH
    
    Shane Reti did ciye the experts. Reti does not claim to be the expert, nor should he.
    Anything dodgy, blame the experts. Not Reti.
    Anyway, release the data.
    
    19 2
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    December 4, 2023 10:20am
  - kowtow
    
    ‘And will NZ Law be followed?’
    
    I read an interesting artcile by a feminist writer in yesterday’s Sunday Telegraph ( UK ) Louise Perry.
    It related to the riots in Ireland and the govt response , she says UK not far behind and indeed we are too.
    Anarcho -tyranny. She calls it.
    
    “AT is a system of govt that fails to protect its citizens from violence , while simultaneously persecuting conduct that would typically be regarded as innocent”.
    
    Witness his place was subject to a police raid on a Sunday ( photos would be interesting) and he’s already in court this morning.
    
    By golly they can act quick sharp with major resources when they want to .
    
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    December 4, 2023 11:29am
  - david in Aus
    
    You can look at the uk database, it is analysed by age, vaccine status etc. It is published online by the UK government and updated.
    
    Releasing raw data without rates, vaccine status, age adjustment etc that just feeds conspiracy theorists with limited reasoning abilities.
    
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    December 4, 2023 1:07pm
    - mawm
      
      You keep on saying this but which database are you referring to? You need to be specific if you want to argue your point.
      
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      December 4, 2023 2:53pm
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      In evaluation of whether my family or I should take the vaccine I utilised the very good Oxford Uni Covid risk calculator. It told me that anyone under the age of 19 was so low risk from Covid that the calculator wasn’t able to calculate a risk score.
      
      Nevertheless the NZ Government legislated that all children older than 12 required a vaccine or they would not get a passport to play sport, go to concerts, movies, museums, swimming pools, cafes, restaurants, etc. They are still pushing the line it is Safe & Effective.
      
      But the facts, from Oxford University, are children under 19 have an incalculable low risk of hospitalisation from Covid. The Pfizer research clearly shows much higher risks to these children from just myocarditis and pericarditis.
      
      So why was the vaccine pushed as mandatory for these young people? Why was it and is still being promoted as safe and effective? Why no qualifiers “but not recommended for young people under the age of 19”?
      
      NZ became Salem under the leadership of the great witch hunter Ardern. It is still Salem today when anyone questioning the official narrative is immediately labelled a conspiracy theorist and spreader of misinformation and disinformation. Yet those shouting this out do not actually base their position on hard facts and data!
      
      What is your answer to that David in aus?
      
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      December 4, 2023 6:00pm
  - peterwn
    
    The problem here is the guy unlawfully accessed a database belonging to an employer and in so doing committed a crime before there was even any disclosure. Therefore the Protected Disclosures Act may not be of any assistance in this case. His lawyer would no doubt raise this as a defence.
    Interestingly, while he has been granted bail he remains in the slammer until 1300 Tuesday. Presumably the authorities want time to enure systems are secured against him or possible associates and/or to gather further evidence without potential interference from him or his associates.
    He is charged with breaching s249(1)(a) of the Crimes Act 1961 and the maximum penalty is 7 years in the slammer. So it is serious stuff.
    IT professionals need to be aware of this and related sections and if they have any need for irregular access to an IT system need obtain consent from a superior or discuss proposed action with a colleague and document the action in a diary, logbook, etc.
    
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    December 4, 2023 9:22pm
- Scooter
  
  He’s been arrested, maybe it’s a good thing, sunlight etc. The new govt needs to have an open enquiry on the excess deaths. NZ likes to be first on many issues so why not this.
  
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  December 4, 2023 8:51am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Only a good thing if the law is not corrupted by political interference. Given what we’ve seen the world over in respect of leaders running roughshod over civil liberties I am not confident that whistleblowers will get well treated.
    
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    December 4, 2023 9:32am
    - kowtow
      
      Anarcho tyranny . See above.
      
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      December 4, 2023 11:30am
  - rouppe
    
    Yes but the arrest will be over the data breach not the data itself
    
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    December 4, 2023 10:05am
  - artemisia
    
    If ‘Winston Smith’ needs funding for legal costs there will not be a problem.
    
    Maybe Te Pūkenga Here Tikanga Mahi will assist him. (You’all know what that is, right?)
    
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    December 4, 2023 10:27am
    - kowtow
      
      rnz has a story about a retiring social worker , the article headline included a moari word which I didn’t understand , genuinely .
      
      I couldn’t be bothered being forced to look it up or even carry on reading .
      
      Being force fed a diet of sanctimonium like some French goose is not how I want to live , so I’ll just turn off .
      
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      December 4, 2023 11:34am
      - riffer
        
        Can’t spell maori. Can’t be arsed looking up a word.
        
        Sounds like a you problem. Most of us are over whiney boomer types who demand we return to the days when their white culture was the dominant paradigm. Maybe if you started accepting that the world is full of more than just people than you your life will quickly become more enjoyable. Jeez you might even discover something that really appeals. Despite what some believe your brain has an almost unlimited capacity.
        
        Of course you could always continue shouting at clouds. Folks here will support you in that but they are a very small (and declining) minority.
        
        But ultimately, the world is moving on. And you’re not.
        
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        December 4, 2023 8:22pm
- Keith White
  
  Meanwhile the thickness plottens…
  
  “Independent scientific analysis has found that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine contains a DNA sequence from Simian Virus 40 [SV40], a detail that was not disclosed to the public.
  
  “While manufacturers insisted on legal protection / indemnity against lawsuits for Covid vaccines’ failure and ill-effects, there is an exception for instances of “willful misconduct.” (This term refers to actions deliberately carried out with a wrongful intent).
  
  So – who had “we signed up to get injected with monkey virus DNA” on their bingo card?
  
  (SV40 has a long-known association with cancer in humans, including mesotheliomas, lymphomas*, and cancers of the brain and bone. In 2002, The Lancet published a paper linking (Merck’s) polio vaccines contaminated with SV40 to Non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. According to the authors, “the vaccine may be responsible for up to 50 percent of the Non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma cases diagnosed”.
  
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  December 4, 2023 8:51am
  - Planet B
    
    Yep my mother developed a rapid, severe and extremely rare form of Tcell lymphoma after getting jabbed. There had only been 40 documented cases globally by 2012. When my mother passed away several months after the jab her oncologist had numerous people with the exact same lymphoma called Cutaneous gamma/delta T-cell lymphoma. How do we go from 40 documented cases world wide to one oncologist in Auckland having several cases all a few months after being jabbed. Coincidence?
    
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    December 4, 2023 9:28am
    - david in Aus
      
      Sorry to hear about your mother. Have you considered that if only 40 people in the world was diagnosed with your mother’s condition that it cannot be related to covid vaccines where billions of people where injected.
      
      People get illness all the time. 40 cases out of billions is not a relationship.
      
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      December 4, 2023 1:11pm
      - Planet B
        
        Perhaps you didn’t quite read the post. Up until 2012 only 40 documented cases of this form of cancer had been documented globally. Shortly after the jab there were several elderly patients with the exact same cancer with my mothers oncologist. Perhaps you are not too good with statistics or you haven’t quite understood my post. Either way you haven’t convinced me that this is simply a coincidence. More a comment from someone who has done zero research on the harms of this vaccine and can’t help but justify their own continued booster shots.
        
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        December 4, 2023 1:35pm
      - mawm
        
        Well David, that is why we have epidemiologists working in the various MoH’s who are supposed to track all these things and let us know when there is a sudden increase in certain diseases. All I see is these publicly paid for bodies trying to hide data. They could refute all “Winston Smith’s” claims by releasing all their data themselves and allow proper professional and independent analysis. But they won’t.
        
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        December 4, 2023 2:57pm
      - david in Aus
        
        Fooled by randomness. I am not sure where you get statistics. Was there a world wide increase?
        
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        December 4, 2023 4:19pm
    - david in Aus
      
      If it was related cases wouldn’t be restricted to NZ. You would see it all over the world. No evidence of that.
      
      What I see in these posts is anecdotes…my family had graves disease etc after covid vaccines. So it must be the cause! That is not evidence.
      
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      December 4, 2023 1:21pm
      - Planet B
        
        When people are told their myocarditis is anxiety and to go home what makes you think anyone is looking into deaths that occur months later. Your comments are about as sensible as our director of health saying the increase in all cause mortality is not due to the vaccine but we are not investigating why death rates have increased so much after the vaccine roll out. Denial is not a river in Africa David and a lack of reporting evidence is not a valid argument
        
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        December 4, 2023 1:56pm
      - wsk12345
        
        Have you looked for evidence? Thought not. Cut the trolling aye, it’s not adding anything useful to the discussion.
        
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        December 4, 2023 5:33pm
      - Planet B
        
        Let’s put this in a statistical reality that may make sense to you. For a oncologist in a city of 1 million people to have three patients that have a disease that occurs in 1 in every 175,000,000 people is 3.5 times less likely than him having 3 patients that all win lotto.
        
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        December 4, 2023 5:46pm
  - MCōs
    
    I have/had non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma
    The haematology doctors made no mention of a link to the covid vaccines
    I’m sure if you know they know
    Are you saying they club together to deliberately withhold this information from the approx 1000 cancer patients diagnosed every year in NZ?
    
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    December 4, 2023 9:30am
    - Simon
      
      The UK’s most decorated oncologist/immunologist tells cancer specialists at RAD51 conference that the covid mRNA vaccine safe and effective mantra is ‘a BIG LIE’
      
      Prof Angus Dalgleish presents data exposing that boosters are accelerating cancer.
      
      https://twitter.com/DrAseemMalhotra/status/1730920737538462046
      
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      December 4, 2023 9:45am
    - Keith White
      
      MCos; how else to explain the 11,000 NZ doctors and health bureaucrats who all got exemptions denied to the rest of us? Of course they won’t dob themselves in.
      
      FYI: in 2022 there were slightly more than 12,000 doctors registered in NZ. So there is a very good chance the majority got an exemption for themselves. The reason we do not know is neither the MOH nor Bloomfield nor the NZMC will divulge the numbers, while OIAs are ignored and the Ombudsman says “exhaust other possibilities to get the information you seek.”
      
      Yeah, right.
      
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      December 4, 2023 12:10pm
      - MCōs
        
        18,780 doctors with practicing certificates last year, which means that 6-7k were vaccinated, n’est-ce pas?
        https://www.mcnz.org.nz/assets/Publications/Workforce-Survey/64f90670c8/Workforce-Survey-Report-2022.pdf
        
        If those clowns Liz Grey and Barry Young aka Winston Smith were correct a fair few would be dead by now.
        
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        December 4, 2023 2:08pm
    - wsk12345
      
      Even if they have seen the link they are hardly going to say “well I’m sorry MCos, it appears you have lymphoma. Probably due to taking the covid vax, I see you had a few doses.”
      
      No I can’t imagine that either. Why would they open that can of worms, risk getting censured, when it achieves nothing.? The public will be told it’s misinformation and you can’t un-take the shots.
      
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      December 4, 2023 12:20pm
      - MCōs
        
        If someone has lung cancer there’s a fair chance enquiries will be made about his smoking habits
        If there was a know connection between my cancer and covid vaccination I would expect the doctor to bring the subject up. He knows from my medical records kept in the system (& now spread around the world by Barry Young) pretty much everything there is to know.
        Furthermore
        Before I had another booster just the other day I enquired if it was a good idea.
        
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        December 4, 2023 2:40pm
      - MCōs
        
        BTW
        The hematologist didn’t say I appeared to have lymphoma
        He knew exactly what I had
        
        Mechanic doesn’t say
        You appear to have a flat tyre
        We’ll run some more tests it could be a flat battery
        
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        December 4, 2023 2:53pm
- Wayne Mapp
  
  Governments don’t interfere with the independence of the Courts. So no, Winston will not intervene.
  However, will the issue of excess deaths be dealt with through to Inquiry?
  
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  December 4, 2023 9:08am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Also, Police do not investigate the Government.
    Something is really stinking. I will wait for Krazykiwi’s comments. No doubt he is right into it, checking.
    
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    December 4, 2023 9:18am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Sadly, no. I have pressing family health issues to deal with. I’m watching this with interest though. I understand there’s been a similar whistleblower data leak out of Ireland
      
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      December 4, 2023 9:24am
      - Paulus
        
        But Trevor in Ireland would not have had the intelligence to leak anything, except piss.
        
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        December 4, 2023 10:25am
      - riffer
        
        Wow. Unbelievable that Paulus’ statement has sat here for 14 hours without anybody noticing quite what generalising nonsense it is.
        
        And if they are referring to the Irish in general, then it fits under the definition of racism.
        
        Grow up Paulus. I come on here to try and have some political debate, not to wade through moronic posts that try to put down an entire country’s people.
        
        I remember my grandparents talking such nonsense back in the 70s. Their excuse was they had a world war where they were encouraged to treat entire countries in generalistic terms.
        
        Because it makes it easier to kill people when you can “other” and negatively describe them by their race.
        
        I’m of Latvian and Scottish stock. Try being a Scottish jew – you catch some verbal. It sucks.
        
        Let’s try and clean up our thinking eh? How about I make an attempt to tone down my socialistic tendencies and everybody else makes an attempt to tone down their learned racism?
        
        Just a thought…
        
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        December 4, 2023 8:32pm
  - kowtow
    
    But they do interfer in independence through the appointment process .
    
    nudge nudge wink wink.
    
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    December 4, 2023 11:36am
  - Paul Marsden
    
    That’s what the Northern Club is for.
    
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    December 4, 2023 4:15pm
- Sacha
  
  Who knows? But the people may well do if public discussion is suppressed.
  
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  December 4, 2023 9:13am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  One word is almost being overused. “misinformation or disinformation”
  But is it really that or people involved desperately trying to cover arses?
  Burtlands’s comment on MoH CEO Margie Apa. I would say Apa is part of the diversions.
  
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  December 4, 2023 9:16am
  - Burtland
    
    according to NZHeralds reporting of Apa,
    
    “What this individual is trying to claim about vaccines is completely wrong and ill-informed, and their comments demonstrate this. The person has no clinical background or expert vaccine knowledge and appears to be trying to spread misinformation,” Apa said.
    
    so the head of MoH implies that publishing MoH data is spreading misinformation.
    
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    December 4, 2023 10:40am
    - info@cruzpro.com
      
      Do you need “expert vaccine knowledge” in order to analyze a data set?
      
      I don’t believe that I would need expert building experience to analyze an Excell sheet regarding the number of houses built in a year.
      
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      December 4, 2023 12:33pm
    - Phronesis
      
      The irony is that Apa herself has no clinical background or expert vaccine knowledge. Most of the people quoted in the media don’t. But this appears to only be a problem when said person is contradicting the accepted MSM narrative.
      
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      December 4, 2023 12:54pm
    - riffer
      
      I have to agree with you there Steve. One person’s misinformation is another person’s bullshit or heartfelt opinion.
      
      Trouble is, how to determine what is truth.
      
      My ma always taught me there’s three sides to every story – your truth, my truth and what really happened.
      
      And every bugger has an agenda nowadays. Especially online. God can we go on.
      
      I find myself having to search widely to find enough different narratives to allow myself as much as I can get, an understanding of what may have happened, but I really cannot say for sure – especially on something that gets a lot of folks talking – what is the absolute truth.
      
      So half the time, I go with the opinion that agrees with my political, social and moral leanings. I’m probably only right half the time with those – maybe less LOL.
      
      So, back to the misinformation and disinformation – as far as I see it, misinformation is somebody repeating something that is either speculative, or erroneous or just plain wrong. And disinformation is somebody starting a conversation with information they know is wrong, but it suits their agenda (which we can speculate on, but never really fully understand).
      
      And these two words can also be weaponised in order to assist the attacker with destabilising an existing narrative.
      
      Sucks, but that’s humans for you. We like to be right, and more than that, we like to prove others wrong too.
      
      I still haven’t worked out a repeatable and accurate methodology for determining the actual truth. Maybe I never will.
      
      In the meantime, I’ll keep trying to find out the story from as many places I can and for the rest, go with my gut. It’s only ever a problem when I open my mouth anyway.
      
      Let us know if you work out how to reliably determine the truth.
      
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      December 4, 2023 8:44pm
- kevn
  
  Maggie… Winnie was making all the right noises until very recently.
  
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  December 4, 2023 9:22am
- peterwn
  
  The person committed a crime by unlawfully downloading personal information, therefore it would be quite wrong for any MP to ‘support’ him. That he did not intend to use or pass on ‘personal’ aspects of the information makes no difference.
  
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  December 4, 2023 9:28am
  - krazykiwi
    
    I agree. As a DBA he would have known of privacy issues. There are reasonably well document strategies for anonymizing SQL databases. I’ve written and executed scripts to do this on several occasions. He should have done that before publishing the data.
    
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    December 4, 2023 10:00am
    - DimChappie
      
      It was anonymised, according to the link you posted above (Igor):
      
      “I made a post yesterday describing a New Zealand whistleblower who shared anonymized data containing dates of COVID vaccinations and dates of death, where applicable.
      
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      December 4, 2023 11:00am
      - krazykiwi
        
        Hmm. My understanding was that Steve Kirsch did the anonymisation before uploading to his Wasabi account. If Barry Young did this before any data was copied and released then his defense against privacy violations would be much stronger.
        
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        December 4, 2023 12:04pm
    - mawm
      
      kk – he has been in discussion with several data analysts/statisticians for sometime already and I’m sure they would have advised him.
      
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      December 4, 2023 11:31am
- rockape
  
  I think Winston has more sense.
  
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  December 4, 2023 9:58am
- grumpy
  
  We are internationally famous again
  https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/12/breaking-new-zealand-health-ministry-employee-whistleblowers-home/
  
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  December 4, 2023 11:39am
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    Wikapedia says “The Gateway Pundit (TGP) is an American far-right fake news website. The website is known for publishing falsehoods, hoaxes, and conspiracy theories.”
    
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    December 4, 2023 12:42pm
    - NoFax
      
      Who isn’t far-right these days?
      
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      December 4, 2023 3:37pm
      - riffer
        
        Maybe once everybody is far-right then we will all STFU about it.
        
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        December 4, 2023 9:01pm
- Right of way is Way of Right
  
  They better not. He accessed personal information without the authority to do so. He then made that information (albeit sanitised) available to people who did not have the right to access that information. If someone had done that with information from police databases, of social welfare databases, or any other government database, they would be prosecuted. The person who accessed this data is not a clinician, not a researcher, nothing that would require him to have this information.
  
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  December 4, 2023 11:58am
  - Keith White
    
    The clinicians and researchers are doing nothing with it.
    
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    December 4, 2023 12:11pm
    - Right of way is Way of Right
      
      Not true, a number of medical personnel have studied this data and reported on it. However many of the anti vaxxers choose to ignore this, as the outcomes do not support their assertions, and those studies that DO support their assertions almost invariably prove to be flawed!
      
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      December 4, 2023 12:36pm
      - Keith White
        
        I can not find any published studies by NZ clinicians of the NZ data set and excess deaths. I try to do all my own research; but in this case I would like to ask if you have a link, please, to these studies on the NZ data by clinicians.
        
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        December 4, 2023 2:17pm
- Liberty
  
  An informant has been apprehended for extracting data that should be publicly accessible. True, he has been disobedient, but the information concerns only deceased individuals who no longer possess any rights. Similarly, unborn children lack the right to live, a circumstance that Labour Party has unfortunately increased in terms of the termination rate. Therefore, why is the government so protective of information regarding deceased individuals? Could it be the timing of their passing? The rate of mortality? Is it the abrupt escalation of the number dying since mandatory vaccinations were implemented? Is there an explanation for this? The state is responsible for exhibiting transparency and honesty in resolving this issue rather than subjecting its citizens to a return to the wicked and oppressive days of the Labour Government. The populace would surely appreciate an earnest resolution.
  
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  December 4, 2023 1:03pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    The information was about who had received the jab, so it includes a lot of people who remain alive.
    
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    December 4, 2023 7:53pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Cooker = far out conspiracy theorist apparently. Think tin foil hats.
  
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  December 4, 2023 10:05pm
Grunter

The NATO chief – Stolenberg, finally admitting that there is “bad news” coming regards the Ukraine situation.
Link below….

Also admits that NATO nations are out of ammo and can not manufacture enough to keep Ukraine fighting. The Germans also announcing that their army would only last a maximum 2 days in a war before they ran out of ammo and supplies. And of course the UK only has 40 battle ready tanks available.

Seymour Hersh reports that Russian and Ukraine Generals in advanced negotiations looking at a peace deal. Zelenskyy not involved and looking more likely to be taken out in some way soon.

All of this has been reported and predicted for the past 12 months by a number of online commentators. The opposite to what the corrupt MSM have been reporting.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/nato-chief-says-west-should-brace-more-bad-news-ukraine
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December 4, 2023 8:11am
- imalwaysright
  
  Grunter
  
  Its code for Ukraine has no more assets left to strip so we are moving on.
  Zelensky will soon be dead. Good.
  He didn’t read the room.
  
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  December 4, 2023 9:14am
  - mawm
    
    imalways – it’s more likely code for the Americans are about to cut and run from yet another war they have lost.
    
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    December 4, 2023 9:28am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Mawm
      Yes, it seems winning the wars they start isn’t a priority for the US defense department .
      Its a lucrative business and “winning” means an interruption to cash flow.
      Imagine if China or Russia behaved like this.
      Americans are the most brainwashed people on the planet.
      
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      December 4, 2023 10:17am
      - info@cruzpro.com
        
        The USA and some NATO countries managed to damage Russia financially and physically by donating mostly old outdated weapons without physically or financially damaging themselves very much.
        
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        December 4, 2023 12:47pm
      - mawm
        
        Info – the reports I’m seeing show that the Russian economy is doing very well. One would struggle to describe the US’s or any of the European NATO countries’ economies doing so.
        
        The Russians have also been using Soviet era materiel, some of which they have upgraded with spectacular success – eg the FAB 250, 500 and 1000 bombs that are now guided.
        
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        December 4, 2023 3:07pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Drones have largely replaced artillery in Ukraine, and are responsible for the majority kills now. They are more versatile, more accurate – >10x the kill effectiveness and cheaper per unit than artillery shells. They also have far fewer logistics and supply issues than artillery due to their small size and easy man-portability.
  
  But artillery is still useful for suppressing offensives – particularly cluster munitions against infantry. Shifts is front lines have become entirely about small infantry groups of 3-10 soldiers taking huge risks and dying in large numbers. Armour has been rendered mostly useless.
  
  Steadily improving and heavier lift drone tech is the critical tech – some drones now carrying up to 10 bombs to chase/harry infantry, autonomous AI terminal targeting drones are starting to enter service to make them immune to jamming.
  
  Russian support for war is dropping. Ukraine is targeting Russia’s supply base deep inside Russia – eg taking out Siberian train routes and arms factories 1000’s of km from Ukraine, and recent loss rates for Russian troops and equipment are huge – their worst month of whole war as Putin is desperate for some propaganda wins ahead of Russian ‘election’ soon. Russia is really hurting.
  
  So Ukraine is in a tough spot, they do need continuation of conventional artillery supplies to suppress infantry that is not forthcoming (Europe’s only supplied about 1/3rd of what they promised). What Ukraine desperately needs is a way of dropping huge numbers of large glide bombs on deeply entrenched Russians, as well as lots of smaller artillery and mortars – to make it overcome deep trenches and break through defenses.
  
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  December 4, 2023 10:39am
- Right of way is Way of Right
  
  Yeah, and the Russians said it would all be over in a couple of weeks….
  
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  December 4, 2023 11:59am
- sungsamning
  
  The sooner its over, the better. I just want people to stop dying.
  
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  December 4, 2023 3:39pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Here here Sungs. Me too
    
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    December 4, 2023 4:01pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Of course. But not without consideration of costs.
    
    To date the war has cost Ukraine perhaps 0.5% of its’ population. But consider what Surrender would mean: Russia is a Mafia state clearly on a fast track to being the worst sort of repressive totalitarian country – so many examples of the recent past about how bad it can get in various evil despotic regimes.
    
    If Ukraine surrenders they will for sure suffer mightily under occupation for decades to come by aggrieved and chauvinistic occupation forces. They may be condemning themselves to being the assault troops in the next war against the Baltic states etc, and they could be condemning their children to horrible lives as serfs.
    
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    December 4, 2023 10:00pm
- NoFax
  
  Last night I was watching the “Cold War” channel on YouTube, specifically it’s new episode on the Soviet Invasion of Czechoslovakia 1968. The arguments and rhetoric from Brezhnev were almost identical to Putin and his invasion of Ukraine; “your boundaries are our boundaries; your security is our security” etc. And while most thinking people in the West, as well as in the Communist block, were against the invasion there were some for it. In 1956 those that supported the invasion of Hungry in West were dubbed “tankies”. Some things never change.
  
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  December 4, 2023 3:50pm
I remember when

I note that in one of his articles Guy Hatchard has stated that –
“In fact, more than two years ago the government granted unfettered access to New Zealand Covid vaccine health data by vaccinologist Dr Petousis-Harris Co-Director of the Global Vaccine Data Network.
She promised to publish data on vaccine safety within months but has published no results since, and has publicly stated that she will not be getting another covid vaccine.”

In 2018, Petousis-Harris was awarded a 5-year Dean’s Fellowship of Medical and Health Sciences, University of Auckland, to research infectious diseases and the vaccines that help prevent them.

In 2021, Petousis-Harris was shortlisted for the Nature Research Award for Driving Global Impact as an acknowledgement of her work on vaccine safety and effectiveness.
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December 4, 2023 8:15am
- Right of way is Way of Right
  
  That’s a rather selective statement on Dr Petousis-Harris’ statement.
  
  What she ACTUALLY said was:
  
  “The recipe for the best immunity that we have at the moment is having had your vaccine and then had the Omicron infection and that is the most superior immunity.
  
  “If you’ve got that hybrid immunity, I wouldn’t be running out to get myself boosted. I don’t think it would be particularly useful.”
  
  To clarify, if you have that hybrid immunity, you’re going to be ok, but the only way to get that immunity is TO GET VACCINATED!!
  
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  December 4, 2023 12:03pm
  - Keith White
    
    So when is she going to publish the results rather than just say “Trust me I’m a doctor!”
    
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    December 4, 2023 12:12pm
    - Right of way is Way of Right
      
      Oh, so when you think she says things that you agree with she is “Dr Petousis-Harris Co-Director of the Global Vaccine Data Network.” From your own post, you have described her as:
      
      In 2018, Petousis-Harris was awarded a 5-year Dean’s Fellowship of Medical and Health Sciences, University of Auckland, to research infectious diseases and the vaccines that help prevent them.
      
      In 2021, Petousis-Harris was shortlisted for the Nature Research Award for Driving Global Impact as an acknowledgement of her work on vaccine safety and effectiveness.
      
      But as soon as I point out that what she ACTUALLY said is at variance with your position, NOW you want to see the report??
      
      Your intellectual flip flop is stunning to behold. You list all her qualifications, all her accomplishments, but because you don’t agree with her decision, suddenly her guidance is useless?
      
      Do you actually listen to yourself??
      
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      December 4, 2023 12:41pm
      - Keith White
        
        ROWIWOR: I have never quoted “Dr Petousis-Harris Co-Director of the Global Vaccine Data Network” or anything else in your post: I only asked “So when is she going to publish the results rather than just say “Trust me I’m a doctor!”
        
        I’m still wondering that.
        
        You may wish to proof-read your ripostes to ensure you’re on target.
        
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        December 4, 2023 2:20pm
  - I remember when
    
    So can we agree she is saying if you have been vaccinated and had Omicron you have hybrid immunity, you don’t need another booster.
    To clarify, she didn’t actually say the last sentence.
    
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    December 4, 2023 1:12pm
    - Right of way is Way of Right
      
      That’s why the last sentence is not in quotation marks. That’s how quotation marks work.
      
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      December 4, 2023 2:43pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Right
    
    It would be interesting to know what is her reasoning for her “hybrid immunity” theory.
    Is it a guess, a hypothesis , a theory? Or is it the result of research conducted in accordance with the scientific method.
    I call bullshit.
    She’s playing it safe by suggesting a combination of jab and natural immunity .
    She knows that natural immunity is effective and she wants the detrimental jab to piggyback on it to give her personal brand of bullshit some credibility and get us, who she thinks are the dumb public, to demand her jab.
    Hybrid immunity is a lie.
    
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    December 4, 2023 4:13pm
kowtow

Headlines say a US navy ship as well as other commercial vessels came under attack from Iran proxies .

Gosh is there nothing that the Israelis , Trump, Zelensky ,the White House , won’t do to drag the world into conflagration . //

‘The attack potentially marked a major escalation in a series of maritime attacks in the Mideast linked to the Israel-Hamas war as multiple vessels found themselves in the crosshairs of a single Houthi assault for the first time in the conflict.’

https://apnews.com/article/red-sea-houthi-yemen-ships-attack-israel-hamas-war-gaza-strip-716770f0a780160e9abed98d3c48fbde
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December 4, 2023 8:16am
- Grunter
  
  Kowtow – I don’t think Trump is driving this? You meant Biden I’m guessing?
  
  But yes, The US nutters need a war(s) to blame the financial collapse on. US Govt Debt now nudging $34 Trillion. Default is the only outcome left. Only a question of when and how exactly.
  
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  December 4, 2023 9:33am
  - Local Miller
    
    I think you missed the sarc tags Grunter //
    
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    December 4, 2023 11:28am
    - Grunter
      
      They always get me….. Ha!!
      
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      December 4, 2023 12:57pm
Biscuit

DPM looks like a bolder anagram of pdm to me…
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December 4, 2023 8:21am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Cold.
  
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  December 4, 2023 8:23am
  - Souvlaki
    
    Deputy Prime Minister….
    
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    December 4, 2023 8:25am
    - Matt Long
      
      ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
      
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      December 4, 2023 8:28am
- pdm
  
  Clever dickie Biscuit.
  
  I bet you are good at cryptic crosswords.
  
  ps Maggie thinks you are cold – at least she thought I was warm. Waiting now for the girls from the tennis club to confirm I am HOT!!!
  
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  December 4, 2023 8:32am
  - Biscuit
    
    I’m in Auckland’s Departure Lounge, pdm, off to Honkers quite soon for a week-long stay that will see me catching Racing at Happy Valley on Wednesday night and, the big one, the wonderful card at Sha Tin on Sunday arvo that features four top class international Group One events.
    
    I can cope with Maggie seemingly not rating my hotness.
    Sniff.
    Cry.
    Howl.
    :: Peers out from behind hands over tears-filled eyes to see if this blatant sympathy-seeking ploy is working::
    O darn.
    
    Still, Love means nothing to Tennis types, right?
    
    I’ll let you and Maggie begin your sucking up efforts to get yourselves sufficiently in my good books as to justify my bring you back a souvenir!
    
    Promising start to the week: Liverpool, 2-3 down with 10 minutes to play minutes at home to Fulham this a.m., scored after 87 and 88 minutes to record a typically-famous win.
    
    When you walk etc etc…
    
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    December 4, 2023 9:07am
- Paulus
  
  Doesn’t the DPM here actually mean as written “Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet ” and not referring to Deputy Prime Minister.
  
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  December 4, 2023 10:28am
Scott

Clive Boonham is a retired Barrister and Solicitor of the High Court of New Zealand. Here is his follow-up article about the Maori party. I posted his previous article on General Debate yesterday.

“Te Pati Maori elected members do not accept the legitimacy of New Zealand’s current constitution. They believe that the constitution is a fiction and that they will not submit to it by swearing allegiance to the King. Their allegiance is pledged elsewhere:

(According to their recent press statement) “We do not consent, we do not surrender, we do not cede, we do not submit; we, the indigenous, are rising. We do not buy into the colonial fictions this House is built upon. Māori owe no allegiance to the genocidal legacy of the British Empire.Te Pāti Māori pledges allegiance to our mokopuna, our whenua, and Te Tiriti o Waitangi.”

Te Pati Maori has laid down a challenge to Parliament. Its elected members unequivocally reject the statutory role of Parliament itself and that of King Charles. They are disrespectful to both. They reject the rule of law in favour of tikanga.If they are allowed to take the oath then it is likely that they will use it as a Trojan horse to get access to Parliament through constitutional means. Then they will be at liberty to attack the constitution from within Parliament. Is the new government prepared to stand firmly behind New Zealand’s written constitution, or will it allow Te Pati Maori to make a mockery of the oath of allegiance?”

It is interesting to me that the radical race relations ideas which were promulgated in the 1970s have now borne fruit in Parliament. How can we remain a country when people think like this and try and take a seat in our governing body when they think the whole country is illegitimate and racist and everything should be overturned?

Are we are in danger of becoming the Weimar Republic? I fail to see how this disrespect to our nation and what amounts to sedition can be allowed to stand?

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/clive-boonham-should-te-pati-maori-mps-be-allowed-to-swear-the-oath-of-allegiance?postId=d288fc2a-4613-463f-8def-e6bdc2722a94&utm_campaign=2bd516be-40e9-4c33-bd24-699c2c7d241d&utm_source=so&utm_medium=mail&utm_content=076a3c5d-bc6b-4684-b36c-a0c9de7f9282&cid=0d222731-ceb2-4f0e-a965-8ead9f09e10e
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December 4, 2023 8:23am
- mandk
  
  Division and conflict.
  
  This is another part of Ardern’s legacy.
  
  Worst PM ever.
  
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  December 4, 2023 9:15am
- imalwaysright
  
  If they take the oath and then behave in a contrary manner then surely that means they are in breach of their oath and parliamentary rules.
  
  The speakers job is to ensure Parliament operates by its rules.
  He would then have no choice but to make them leave.
  
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  December 4, 2023 9:22am
  - Paulus
    
    And no Oath, no Membership of Parliament, then no Pay !
    
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    December 4, 2023 10:30am
- thirteenstars
  
  Except if they take the oath they will be subject to the will of parliament through the speaker.
  
  So what if they advocate for constitutional change, no matter how radical? How many MPs over the years have been in favour of NZ becoming a republic? How many still are? That’s about as constitutionally radical as it gets since it involves the removal of the entire role of the monarchy from NZ affairs.
  
  I have no problem with MPs saying they want a different system. That’s what parliament is for: to debate serious issues. Let the light be focused on them and let the people decide.
  
  And if they get uppity, start hurling themselves about, impromptu haka, unauthorised waving of mere, then let the speaker find them in breach and have them removed.
  
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  December 4, 2023 9:34am
- Ghost
  
  You’re making more of this than it is. Every time it comes around to take the oath the Māori party protest, they then take it in Māori and move on.
  
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  December 4, 2023 9:43am
  - ISeeRed
    
    Sounds like THEY’RE the ones making more of it than necessary. If they’re going to take the oath anyway but in te reo, why the song and dance?
    
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    December 4, 2023 11:16pm
    - Ghost
      
      No, people here are making more of it, they’ve brought into it and are running around coming up with what if’s. don’t give the clowns the time of day over this, they will protest, they will bitch, they will take the oath
      
      This is how these clowns work
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300168542/mori-party-mps-storm-out-of-parliaments-first-session-protest-tyranny-of-our-democracy
      
      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/11/government-open-to-changing-oath-of-allegiance-new-mps-swear-as-they-enter-parliament.html
      
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      December 4, 2023 11:33pm
- kowtow
  
  Small quibble .
  
  Can we call them “the maori party” .
  
  Why play by their rules , which they make up as they go along anyway.
  
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  December 4, 2023 11:40am
  - sungsamning
    
    I just call them the racist party.
    
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    December 4, 2023 3:43pm
    - wsk12345
      
      But there are at least 3 racist parties….
      
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      December 4, 2023 5:42pm
- Damocles11
  
  Te Pati Maori are calling for 3 years of protests pushing their separatist / secessionist / maorification agenda, with it all to kick off on Tuesday.
  
  https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/133391888/te-pti-mori-plans-protests-across-the-north-island-as-parliament-restarts
  
  Where are the marches for unity? Where are the marches against the division that Te Pati Maori is stoking? As usual, the majority in this country have no real leaders, nobody to galvanise them. And if there was anyone, the majority are far too complacent, bland, and mild mannered anyway. We will continue to be ridden roughshod over.
  
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  December 4, 2023 12:05pm
  - sirknz
    
    Any reason why the NZ Herald put up all the meeting locations for the protestors?
    
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    December 4, 2023 1:26pm
    - kowtow
      
      Part of the bribe.
      
      Active protection and promotion and all that.
      
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      December 4, 2023 1:46pm
    - Clyde
      
      I also saw that. In my view, that is tantamount to assisting the rabid racists in their endeavours. Worth a complaint to the Press Council I would think…..
      
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      December 4, 2023 2:18pm
      - JerJer
        
        Yep, the cops will come and get you if you try organize a protest about anything else via facebook or other social media, but these guys want to arrange the long march of the stupid and the lazy and disrupt traffic and god knows what, our useless media will publish a timetable so people know where to join the rabble and a what time. Amazing. Ironically they are doing us all a favour by highlighting their general stupidity and racism, so that will only bolster the support the government has.
        
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        December 4, 2023 2:55pm
      - JerJer
        
        I can also see here:
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/national-maori-action-day-rush-hour-travel-disruption-as-te-pati-maori-calls-for-protests/BG227C3YWVHGHHN3WNDSLB6QBU/
        
        That woke whatever has been renamed NZTA too. First time I have seen an article for a long time that did not refer to the agency as woke whatever.
        
        No one will listen to these guys because they are protesting. Such a waste of time. What are they expecting? Winston and Seymour to bow down and say shucks guys, you rabble make up less than 1% of the electorate and your not in our support base, sure we will dump the plans that most people want in favour of what you want. Idiots.
        
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        December 4, 2023 3:26pm
      - Jack5
        
        State TV also backing the Maori Party demonstrations. Giving it heaps of free publicity.
        
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        December 4, 2023 7:33pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    They march to save their gravy train.
    They don’t march to stop their kids getting tortured and murdered.
    Fuck them
    
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    December 4, 2023 4:21pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    3% of the population voted for them. Not exactly winning numbers there.
    
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    December 4, 2023 10:10pm
Matt Long

10 % of Auckland rates to be paid to cover operating costs of City Rail Link.
Sounds like a great deal, how soon can the Auckland Council get the government to spread the pain to the rest of the country?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/aucklands-city-rail-link-set-to-cost-auckland-ratepayers-220m-a-year-to-operate-once-it-opens-in-2026/YLO4E4DAO5EHHFSPIX2AEM23YE/
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December 4, 2023 8:27am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  When we will learn that anything on rails is bad? It just doesn’t fit well with our geography, population density, and earthquake risk. It is expensive, inflexible, and fragile. Electric and soon driverless buses are a much better solution. The only possible exception is Wellington being adjacent to two long, narrow valleys where a train can run down the middle and the lines already exist.
  
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  December 4, 2023 8:32am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    There is a certain group of the Public Sector who are train mad. They will never change, it is other people’s money.
    
    31 1
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    December 4, 2023 8:45am
- Burtland
  
  Annual costs $265m
  $160m in interest on loans to build the project,
  $41m for depreciation, more commonly known as wear and tear; and
  $64m in operating costs to run the stations
  
  $44m of revenue
  
  so the ticket price is 17% of the running cost – wow
  
  the net tax payer is going to need very deep pockets to pay for Rod Carr’s plans of everyone using public transport.
  
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  December 4, 2023 8:51am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    These figures are damning…. absolutely damning.
    
    IF the revenue includes a projected number of passengers upturn, then the business case can never have shown a pure positive cashflow.
    
    What a disaster – both for the poor business people on Albert Street during construction and for Auckland rate payers forever and a day..
    
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    December 4, 2023 9:16am
  - plc
    
    So make it free and save on ticket collection. Then see if it gets used more.
    
    Because you are getting no benefit with an 83% subsidy…..see if free public transport impacts road congestion (clue:it won’t)
    
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    December 4, 2023 5:30pm
- Vinicius
  
  Forcing the rest of the country to fork out for this would be a political dead duck. But seeing there are these left wing train nutters in Auckland and Wellington goodness know what could happen.
  
  Finally these left wing train nuts, did mummy take their trainsets away from them when they were children?
  
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  December 4, 2023 9:04am
- lastmanstanding
  
  I predict the CRL will be a white elephant. The trains will run empty most of the time. It started out at $2 billion and will wind up over $6 billion. Yet another half arsed waste of ratepayers and taxpayers hard earned dollars.
  
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  December 4, 2023 9:26am
  - peterwn
    
    Soon to be canned light rail would have been an even bigger turkey.
    
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    December 4, 2023 9:32am
  - artemisia
    
    Don’t worry, once the CRL is up and running there will be a rigorous and independent post implementation review of the CRL business case. To make sure the assumptions, costs and benefits have been verified and achieved.
    
    That PIR will no doubt confirm that the project followed the 6 usual phases.
    
    1. Enthusiasm
    2. Disillusionment
    3. Panic
    4. Search for the guilty
    5. Punishment for the innocent
    6. Praise for those not involved.
    
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    December 4, 2023 9:55am
  - NoFax
    
    I will take up the bet that the trains will run empty most of the time. From a passenger POV it will be very successful – don’t confuse financial success with numbers on the train.
    
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    December 4, 2023 3:54pm
- Handyman
  
  Train passengers will contribute nothing to the cost of the rail tunnel.
  The current ticket price will remain the same from West Auckland to the CBD.
  The only people to benefit from the rail tunnel will be those current passengers from West Auckland who will spend then minutes less on the train.
  
  Let’s check the other claims:
  The tunnel will allow millions of commuters to get to the CBD, while…
  Thousands of CBD workers now live in the CBD, and the CBD workforce is reducing year over year.
  Apparently the tunnel will allow triple the number of trains, even with no additional passengers.
  Don’t forget Kiwirail (100% NZ taxpayer) will need to spend a further billion dollars replacing the entire switch system because the current system cannot handle a loop.
  
  Never has there been a project to deliver such few benefits to so few people for such a huge amount.
  This tunnel has cost the same as 5 large regional hospitals.
  
  The
  
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  December 4, 2023 11:14am
- Damocles11
  
  This project has been a disgrace from the start. So much money wasted.
  
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  December 4, 2023 12:07pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

COP28 President Sultan al-Jaber also heads ADNOC, Abu Dhabi’s national oil company. If he was serious about global warming, he’d just turn off the taps. I mean, it’s that urgent, right?

Carroll Muffett, president of the Center for International Environmental Law, however, said that the only way to ‘decarbonize’ carbon-based oil and gas is to stop producing it “quickly, completely, and permanently … Anything short of this is just more industry greenwash.”

That much, I can agree with.

Meanwhile, neither the breathless BBC on-the-spot reporter nor any of the other attendees are known to be walking home.

Hypocrites, every man jack.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-67599925
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December 4, 2023 8:28am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Global Warming is urgent, but money is urgenter.
  
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  December 4, 2023 9:00am
- Master Mariner
  
  NMTB, The biggest Lobby group attending is from the Worlds Oil Majors.
  
  Mean while ADNOC ( Abu Dhabi National Oil Company) is spending Billions in Oil / Gas exploration.
  
  https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Oil-Giant-ADNOC-Pursues-50-Billion-Worth-Of-New-Deals.html
  
  On a side note, I hope James Shaw makes it this time and recharges his electric scooter. Not like last time missing the methane emissions talk // at Cop ( Out) 27.
  
  https://www.cbc.ca/news/climate/climate-dubai-cop28-lobbyists-canada-1.7042376
  
  Useful Idiots , Springs too mind.
  
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  December 4, 2023 10:05am
  - Burtland
    
    James is there already, the Minister is still in NZ
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018918008/greens-co-leader-james-shaw-on-cop28
    
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    December 4, 2023 11:03am
  - kowtow
    
    I wonder if Venezuela has sent a huge delegation and what of Guyana .
    
    Guyana has recently announced a discovery of huge oil resource .
    
    Venezuela has resumed its claims on Guyana territories .
    
    Golly , I reckon Trump, Zelensky , the military industrial something or other and Netanyahu are behind all these shenanigans , again.
    
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    December 4, 2023 11:46am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Let’s hope the Brits haven’t given all of their ammo to Ukraine
      
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      December 4, 2023 8:04pm
- Matt Long
  
  The President of Cop28 UAE’s Sultan Al Jaber, whose country’s wealth by coincidence depends on fossil fuels, hurt all the luvvies’ feelings by saying halting fossil fuel production would take us back to caves.
  Doesn’t he understand the Pope is infallible?
  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/dec/03/back-into-caves-cop28-president-dismisses-phase-out-of-fossil-fuels
  Better take our corrupt climate junkets to civilised countries in the future, huh?
  
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  December 4, 2023 12:14pm
- Taieri
  
  “quickly, completely, and permanently … Anything short of this is just more industry greenwash.”
  ——————
  
  Quickly, completely and permanently?
  Two weeks without petroleum products and a multitude of millions will starve.
  Carroll Muffet is an idiot.
  
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  December 4, 2023 2:13pm
Maggy Wassilieff

The Clerk of the House is going to be busy tomorrow.

It is a difficult issue for the Clerk of the House who will have to administer the oath-taking by Members. According to Parliamentary procedure it is the Clerk of the House who administers the swearing of the oath of allegiance. The new Speaker is then elected by the sworn-in Members.

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/clive-boonham-should-te-pati-maori-mps-be-allowed-to-swear-the-oath-of-allegiance
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December 4, 2023 8:33am
- Ehlana
  
  They seem to have gone to a lot of effort to get themselves elected to a body they don’t believe in.
  
  If they don’t want to swear allegiance to our system of government (which is what the oath to the King means), then they cannot sit in it.
  
  We will then find out whether that means by-elections for those seats, or they just sit empty until the next election.
  
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  December 4, 2023 8:52am
  - pdm
    
    If Gerry kicks The Maori Party members out a few Greens could well go with them in sympathy.
    
    The big quest though is will any from Labour go as well – or are they just pretend Maori?
    
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    December 4, 2023 9:16am
    - rouppe
      
      Sounds like Gerry can’t.
      
      The oaths are taken before the speaker is elected
      
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      December 4, 2023 10:27am
  - peterwn
    
    Then Winston loses his power in the Coalition.
    
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    December 4, 2023 9:34am
    - wsk12345
      
      Why? He has a signed coalition agreement.
      
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      December 4, 2023 12:28pm
  - Ghost
    
    Every 3 years the Maori party and green mps protest the oath. They take it in Maori and that’s it for another three years until they protest it again.
    
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    December 4, 2023 10:32am
    - kowtow
      
      They don’t protest the overly generous money and benefits they derive from such a colonial , oppressive , systemically racist institution.
      And nor does te pahti media question their outright hypocrisy.
      Innit .
      
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      December 4, 2023 11:58am
- Prince
  
  Simple solution – no oath, no salary.
  
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  December 4, 2023 10:28am
Nukuleka

How on earth could Luxon and Bishop have made such a cock-up over the number of cigarette outlets in Northland under Labour’s tobacco ban proposal? Just the sort of incompetence- and yes it was incompetence- that the legacy media will feast on. And they haven’t even been sworn in yet.
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December 4, 2023 8:33am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Incompetence is when you realise it is a cock up but ignore it and allow it to play out……
  
  Luxon saw it eventually and acted AND apologised and moved on.
  
  Haven’t seen that in a while.
  
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  December 4, 2023 8:43am
  - peterwn
    
    Hopefully he will be inviting someone to a meeting without coffee.
    
    8 0
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    December 4, 2023 9:35am
  - G152
    
    His current advisers are labour bought and evidently willing to fake evidence to belittle the current government
    
    5 0
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    December 4, 2023 10:27am
    - Jack5
      
      Who gives a rat’s arse how many legal cigarette retailers there are in Northland?
      
      This is a trivial side issue, a quibble, by biased reporters looking for something they can nail Luxon with.
      
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      December 4, 2023 7:45pm
- kowtow
  
  To be fair ;
  
  the amount of detail involved in all the legislation that the coalition negotiations has forced on them , in a very short space of time , must be , could be literally overwhelming.
  
  Yes I agree though but I suspect they are being badly served by advisors and do need to do better.
  
  Finally ; when did the media pardy , left wing activists that they are ,ever , ever hold Ardern and her race , class radicals to account .Like they are to the coalition.
  
  Hold fast , it’s the big picture and results that matter.
  
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  December 4, 2023 8:50am
  - Bullion
    
    I hope policy coming out of those negotiations are based on actual, not made up, data.
    
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    December 4, 2023 9:28am
- MCōs
  
  Those two were sworn in last Monday
  
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  December 4, 2023 8:54am
- Vinicius
  
  It was as simple as searching Dr Google or Bing to find the correct information. It was also published in the NZ Gazette on Sept 23.
  
  https://gazette.govt.nz/notice/id/2023-sl4301
  
  Luxon did the right thing by fronting up to the media and fessing up. That is more that can be said about the Labour Party who after 6 years of a shambolic government that haven’t apologised for anything of note.
  
  1. Overseeing inadequte changes to the electoral system by the Electoral Commission.
  2. Leaving the economy in poor shape with huge public debt.
  3. Telling a multitude of lies about Covid.
  4. Converting the education system into something resembling a basket case.
  5. Wrecking the health system.
  6. Failure of its law and order policies.
  7. PIJF
  8. Pharmac.
  
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  December 4, 2023 8:55am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Sad day at the news office. There is no news today, let’s make a prick out of National again.
  
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  December 4, 2023 8:55am
- pdm
  
  In defence of Bishop he was on Q & A as Leader of The House to cover the Parliamentary process over the next two weeks.
  
  I don’t think he is the Minister in charge of repealing the smoking legislation. If I am correct then it is not unreasonable for him to not know exact details of that legislation.
  
  He allowed Tame to lead him into a trap, so could have handled it better once they moved away from the reason he was being interviewed.
  
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  December 4, 2023 9:27am
  - Bullion
    
    The worst part is not recognising he had incorrect information but just keep repeating incorrect talking points.
    
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    December 4, 2023 9:31am
    - sungsamning
      
      Yes, he did himself no favors there.
      
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      December 4, 2023 3:50pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Down on the Wellington waterfront there’s a yellow container-shop. It’s staffed and equipped to help cyclists fix their bikes. From oiling your chain to replacing your brake cable – nothing is too much trouble. There’s even a bike rack on the wall, of the type installed on buses, so you can practice loading your bike before it needs its first lift up the hill.

And the charge to the customer for this exemplary service? Nil, nada, not one brass razoo. All paid for by the Council, along with at least the living wage for those helpful young people.

Just one reason why the rates go up and up.
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December 4, 2023 8:37am
- wsk12345
  
  Wow I wonder how the bike shops who pay rates to be in the city feel about this. Replacing cables etc is their core business. I’d be furious.
  
  29 1
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  December 4, 2023 9:30am
- mawm
  
  There are Bike hubs in Auckland as well that do the same thing – all sponsored by Auckland Council and Auckland Transport.
  
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  December 4, 2023 9:36am
Maggie Pie

MAGA

“Make Gaza Glow Again”

– Benjamin Netanyahoo
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December 4, 2023 8:43am
- krazykiwi
  
  Nope. Doesn’t work.
  
  8 1
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  December 4, 2023 10:02am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    You’re obviously not a religious person then KK?
    
    The old biblical name in Hebrew for Gaza was…. ‘Azzah’
    
    Check it out in the kjv – [Deuteronomy 2:23]
    
    I only changed it so people would get it.
    
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    December 4, 2023 10:22am
    - Damocles11
      
      You’d need two G’s in your acronym Maggie, nothing to do with being a religious person.
      
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      December 4, 2023 12:56pm
Frank the tank

Judging off the last 7 days the MSM isn’t going to wander off into the sunset. There has been some deep triggering since the establishment of this government and Luxon, in particular needs to apply a firm hand here.

Reducing government advertising spend by half will bring some sanity back into the media as the activists learn the principals of a free market.
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December 4, 2023 8:47am
- Maggie Pie
  
  And when you see the expression on these ‘Churnalists’ faces….. you realise Winston is probably over the target.
  They look sh*t scared to me 😀
  
  https://twitter.com/SimonHenshall/status/1731052613263888873
  
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  December 4, 2023 9:04am
  - sungsamning
    
    I never thought I could possibly type the following words in a million years. However, its time I cut NZ First some slack.
    
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    December 4, 2023 3:55pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Cut all taxpayer funding to ALL media. With extreme prejudice. Their time has expired.
    
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    December 4, 2023 10:13pm
- sungsamning
  
  That’s a start. Next, ministers and civil servants should be forbidden to talk to any of the PIJF media. A weekly news conference with The Platform, Reality Check Radio, DPF, etc, should do the trick. Lastly, claw back the PIJF money due to be spent from now until 2026.
  
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  December 4, 2023 3:54pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

That TV1 shit that I hate is rabbiting on about NZ quote of the year.
I say MAGA. Make Ardern Go Away, and it worked!!
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December 4, 2023 8:49am
I remember when

I have been looking at New Zealand’s most common birthday statistics.
Despite our wishes to consider ourselves ‘higher beings’ when compared to other animals, the most common birthdays occur in early to mid-spring.
When most of the calves, lambs, duckling, etc, are born.
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December 4, 2023 9:00am
- Flossie
  
  Could it be something to do with being nine months after the “festive season”?
  
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  December 4, 2023 9:24am
  - MCōs
    
    Length of gesticulation for sheep is about five months
    Do farmers get a bit lonely when winter approaches?
    
    4 1
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    December 4, 2023 11:11am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      You think sheep wave special signals to lonely farmers?
      
      https://dalempollock.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/sheep-490×300.jpg
      
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      December 4, 2023 12:49pm
    - Paulus
      
      Avocado gestation is nine months too !
      
      2 0
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      December 4, 2023 1:31pm
    - Keith White
      
      Length of Gesticulation? Signs of the Times I guess…
      
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      December 4, 2023 2:23pm
I remember when

Lithium:
A surge in investor capital into supply investment tied to the long-term EV demand story.
Fundamental mispricing has in turn generated an outsized supply response relative to the demand trend.
Therefore prices have plummeted from an average US$53,982 tonne in 2022 to sit at around US$11,850 at present.
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December 4, 2023 9:07am
- kowtow
  
  Modern day tulip mania .
  
  These people are claimed to be the ‘smartest guy in the room” and yet boom and bust cycles and irrational exuberance just won’t go away .
  
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  December 4, 2023 9:55am
Maggie Pie

The weather turned a bit foul at the beach yesterday.
So had some time to do a bit of thinking.
Decided to run a few numbers on the back of a Wetwipe.
Do you realise, that those 12 Green shit-stirring antisemites, that nobody even voted for, but who have ended up in parliament as scum LIST MP’s…..are going to cost taxpayers in excess of $7 MILLION to sit on their useless fat arses for the next three years doing nothing?!!

Think how many extra Nurses we could have employed.

Just saying.
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December 4, 2023 9:27am
- Nickc2
  
  List MP’s = Unelectable swill!!
  
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  December 4, 2023 10:05am
- rouppe
  
  While not disagreeing with the overall sentiment, they have 3 electoral MPs now, so some people did vote for some of them
  
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  December 4, 2023 10:32am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Yeah…but that’s why I didn’t include those ones in the calculation rupee.
    
    5 1
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    December 4, 2023 12:09pm
    - MCōs
      
      What about list MPs from other parties
      For example these ministers
      Gerry Brownlee
      Paul Goldsmith
      Nichola Willis
      Melissa Lee
      Winston & Shane
      Nicole McKee
      Casey Costello
      
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      December 4, 2023 12:34pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        There has been the odd time for someone who opts to reside in Mangere, that you actually come across as quite intelligent Cossie.
        
        The difference is, if you haven’t noticed, all the names YOU list will be hard-at-it for the benefit of hardworking taxpaying New Zealanders for the next 9 years!
        
        What do you think the likes of Ricardo, Espresso, et al will be doing?
        Who else do you think would employ ANY of them on 200k+ a year?
        
        Wakey Wakey…..
        
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        December 4, 2023 3:15pm
fightingtemeraire

MP

FIFTEEN of them!!!!
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December 4, 2023 9:42am
- Maggie Pie
  
  YIP!! And all thick as mince.
  
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  December 4, 2023 9:49am
ClanMcleod

If anyone had any doubt about whether the content of the data dump will show damning evidence of jab harms and deaths, all you need for confirmation of the validity of it is note how quickly the police went into action. For an employment contract breach????

Also the manic efforts going into trying to remove all evidence of it.

If the jabs were ‘safe and effective’ they would release ALL the data for expert analysis. If they don’t you know it is evidence of malfeasance of the highest order.
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December 4, 2023 9:49am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I have to disagree with you here.
  
  It is not an “employment contract breach”. He has been charged with accessing a computer system for dishonest purposes, a criminal offence.
  
  Public servants can’t just leak a giant database of information. If a public servant thinks that there is wrong doing, he or she can use the procedures in the Criminal Disclosures Act.
  
  https://www.publicservice.govt.nz/publications/protected-disclosures-act-2022/
  
  Any government agency would have called in the police when faced with a data leak on this scale.
  
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  December 4, 2023 10:07am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    BY – you may be correct, I was led to believe it was employment contract so apologies if I got that wrong.
    
    However I believe the point is still the same, the speed and aggressiveness of the police in making the arrest is unprecedented. As are the efforts to delete all traces of the data.
    
    The only conclusion I think possible is that there is information they do not want revealed.
    Forget about Liz Gunn’s claims, but in the end if there is nothing to hide then why the blind panic by the authorities?
    If the data doesn’t show concerning issues then the best thing the MoH could do is release it themselves and all of the ‘conspiracy theorists’ are instantly out of a job and have zero relevance.
    
    If they can do that with clear evidence then the debate is over and trust can be restored.
    
    As for not going through the official channels, after the last 4 years, I can fully understand why he has zero trust in any of them. I know I have lost all respect and trust in these people.
    
    We saw what happened to Edward Snowden and in particular, Julian Assange for daring expose the truth.
    What it at least has done is force some engagement in this needed discussion.
    
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    December 4, 2023 10:50am
    - mawm
      
      Clan – “the speed and aggressiveness of the police in making the arrest is unprecedented” – well not since the FBI (and Key) sicced our police on Kim Dotcom to keep Obama’s donors happy.
      
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      December 4, 2023 11:45am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        mawm – yes, that one was next level. His was money related, hence the ‘no expense spared’ with helicopters etc! Follow the money!
        
        8 2
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        December 4, 2023 12:23pm
    - grumpy
      
      They got the injunction from the Employment Court – so, an employment matter.
      
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      December 4, 2023 1:29pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Apparently the whistleblower had emailed MoH prior, informing them of the problems he had found with the data and they didn’t want to know?
    
    https://kirschsubstack.com/p/its-time-for-criminal-charges-to
    
    Anyway, the main point in all of this is, the data has scared the authorities senseless. The reaction speaks volumes.
    
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    December 4, 2023 10:54am
    - MCōs
      
      Was that the guy who claimed 20% of those vaccinated were now dead?
      Or was that someone else?
      
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      December 4, 2023 11:17am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        MCōs – totally irrelevant, keep your eye on the ball. What’s important here is the reaction of authorities compared to other criminal actions.
        
        Also the attempts to eradicate all copies of the (anonymised) data.
        
        Opposing bail was next level vindictiveness. Notice how the media are all over the detail of what ‘crime’ he committed’ but zero questions about the data and what it might reveal?
        
        That’s your biggest clue that this is a cover up. The rest of the world is watching closely.
        
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        December 4, 2023 1:09pm
    - Ghost
      
      I think you’d have to be stupid to not realise that downloading and then sharing this data wouldn’t lead to an arrest. He’s broken the law. The reaction is perfectly normal.
      
      5 4
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      December 4, 2023 11:22am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Ghost – no it isn’t. The speed of action is off the charts. When was the last time they responded to a ram raid or a serious assault with as much vigour?
        
        What should be concerning you is what is in the data to cause this overreaction.
        
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        December 4, 2023 11:43am
      - Ghost
        
        It was last week the data was released, yesterday he was arrested so not that fast, and unlike a ram raid they knew his identity.
        
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        December 4, 2023 11:48am
      - mawm
        
        Ghost – Fortunately the Protected Disclosures Act 2022 says:-
        
        Purpose
        The purpose of this Act is to promote the public interest—
        (a) by facilitating the disclosure and timely investigation of serious wrongdoing in or by an organisation; and
        (b) by protecting the people who disclose in accordance with this Act.
        
        There are several steps he has to have taken and surely that will all become apparent.
        
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        December 4, 2023 11:52am
      - Ghost
        
        I think he will have blown being able to use that when he shared it with an overseas website.
        
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        December 4, 2023 12:05pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Just a reminder of the hypocrisy of these morons.
        
        H/T Twitter.
        
        WHAT SHORT MEMORIES OUR GOVT HAS…
        
        Oh the bitter sweet irony of Health NZ and the NZ Government being concerned about vaccine status privacy…
        
        to the point of a frothing frenzy…
        
        When the entire country was divided by covid vaccine status, that was MANDATORILY divulged to everyone everywhere.
        
        We had to tell anyone at any time what our covid vaccine status was if in order to:
        
        *keep our job
        *go into shops
        *visit a theatre
        *go to the cinema
        *sit a drivers licence
        *join a sports team
        *go to university
        *buy a coffee in a cafe
        
        *and yes our friends and family also wanted to know our private medical information before we were invited to join gatherings.
        
        All of a sudden we have an absolute and unwavering right to
        
        MEDICAL PRIVACY
        
        The irony is certainly not wasted on me
        
        What about you?
        
        Indeed.
        
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        December 4, 2023 12:00pm
      - Ghost
        
        The problem is clan is that he has blown it. The story won’t be on the data, it will be on the breach and the release to an overseas conspiracy website. He could have gone to the media, or the national party and said this is what I have found, he didn’t. The story will now be what he did, where he released it, and just a handful of people will concentrate on the data while the public will see data breach, arrest, supplied to conspiracy website.
        
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        December 4, 2023 12:09pm
      - kowtow
        
        ‘He’s broken the law. The reaction is perfectly normal.’
        
        Lots of people break the law .
        
        Here in NZ if you’re powerful enough or are an ethnic narco trafficking criminal enetrprise and you want to have a victory parade the police will literally inconvenience the general public in favour of a display of the power of organised crime in this country , repeatedly .
        
        As I said above this system of govt can be described as ‘anarcho tyranny’.
        
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        December 4, 2023 12:06pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      It is unlikely to be “unprecedented”, but it is rare. However, that is because a public servant leaking that volume of data is rare. I cannot think of a prior example. I maintain that any public service CE would respond the same way if faced with a similar incident.
      
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      December 4, 2023 11:23am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        BY – I have zero problem with him being reported to police. I’m sure he expected this.
        
        I’m talking about the urgency and actions of the police for what is a civil matter compared to their inaction on so many other much more dangerous incidents.
        
        In some respect it’s like the destruction of the journalist Mick Hall. He didn’t do anything seriously wrong, but he went against the ‘official’ narrative so had to be used as an example to others.
        
        Again, all they have to do is release ALL the data for full investigation, then we can sort this out one way or the other and put an end to any speculation.
        There is only one reason for the actions of police and authorities. They’re terrified of what the data will reveal.
        
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        December 4, 2023 11:47am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Apparently the police are opposing bail? Are you kidding me?
        The courts in NZ have let repeatedly let seriously violent criminals and other scum stay at home on bail. Weren’t our jails too full? Wasn’t the policy to reduce the jail numbers?
        
        This is vindictiveness of the highest order. They really are freaking out right now.
        
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        December 4, 2023 11:50am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        It is not a “civil matter”. It is a criminal offence.
        
        5 3
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        December 4, 2023 12:15pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        BY – you’re being pedantic, I know you know the point I am making.
        
        There is simply no justification for the clear hypocrisy being displayed right now. Anyone paying attention should be very concerned at the actions and priorities of the NZ police.
        
        This isn’t about leaking data, it’s about the content of the data. This is vindictive, it is nothing to do with law and order.
        
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        December 4, 2023 12:33pm
      - RichardX
        
        “This isn’t about leaking data, it’s about the content of the data. This is vindictive, it is nothing to do with law and order.” is the bit you have to provide evidence for rather than just assert.
        
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        December 4, 2023 12:41pm
  - Keith White
    
    So, revealing true figures generated by us and concerning deaths and injuries affecting us, information owned and paid for by our taxes but hidden from the rest of us, is dishonesty. Yeah, right.
    
    9 1
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    December 4, 2023 2:25pm
- imalwaysright
  
  Clan
  I totally agree.
  Ardern , Hipkins, and Bloomfield conspired to lie, obfuscate, and withhold critical health information from the public. They got cushy jobs and royal honours for their skullduggery .
  
  A public servant with a conscience and concern for the existential damage being done to the public health tries to remedy the treachery and ends up in hand cuffs.
  
  Hopefully it will go to trial and the health department become subject to disclosure.
  If they accuse him of taking part of the database then they will have to disclose the entire database in order to prove it.
  
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  December 4, 2023 10:42am
  - Grunter
    
    Surely Reti isn’t dumb enough to think that Kiwis still trust NZ Health? Hardly anyone now taking “boosters”. So Reti is already talking into an echo chamber.
    
    Dr Reti – try and lock me down again and coerce Kiwis into mRNA jabs! GFY (as Elon would say)
    
    18 1
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    December 4, 2023 11:21am
  - lifesgood
    
    What I can’t understand is that he presumably passed on data from the govt MOH data base and now they are saying he was spreading misinformation. Are they saying their data base is full of misinformation? If so, why? Otherwise he was passing on facts.
    
    18 1
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    December 4, 2023 11:30am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      lifesgood – at least we got the MoH representative to admit their is excess all cause mortality in NZ! Inadvertently no doubt, but it’s a start.
      
      8 2
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      December 4, 2023 1:11pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Clan
        
        Stand by for the “I misspoke ”
        excuse.
        
        Its their way of turning back time.
        
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        December 4, 2023 4:41pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Indeed, we have absolute evidence that they hid concerning evidence of vaccine harm from the public.
    
    This man has been charged. He hasn’t been found guilty. He’s not a flight risk. If the data shows what he believes it does he’s a whistleblower and should be protected.
    
    If the data confirms these jabs are killing and maiming people, he should be getting Ardern’s gong and she should be taking his place in jail.
    
    12 2
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    December 4, 2023 11:53am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      “If the data shows what he believes it does he’s a whistleblower and should be protected.”
      
      I appreciate that you feel passionately about this, but he has missed the chance to use the whistleblower legislation.
      
      4 3
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      December 4, 2023 12:20pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        BY – yes I know, but retrospectively if he is vindicated there should be an apology and reparation.
        
        Then the actual criminals can be brought to justice, if we still have a justice system.
        
        8 2
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        December 4, 2023 12:38pm
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        BY I see in your link that the Whistleblower provisions include responsibility on the employer to have clear policies, processes etc in place to support whistleblowers. Including having that information displayed around the workplace.
        
        Usually the bigger the employer the greater the onus on them to have well implemented systems, training and processes. Given this is the MOH they should have been at gold standard. As such, I wouldn’t be surprised if the employment court don’t see this as black and white as he has clearly broken the law. I hope he has good legal advice!
        
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        December 4, 2023 2:36pm
Benedict Yu

Just came across this recent talk by John key on “leadership”. I think it was in a Christchurch forum.

https://youtu.be/fSqAWC128EE?si=AFMwiuVA_YEBJIKG

He is very polite as usual. However his assessment of Jacinda is scathing. He describes her as an accidental Prime Minister who was not a leader. His thesis is that she was paralysed by the fear of failure. He reveals that he provided advice to the government early in the pandemic. He advised that while it was easy to lock down the country, the hard part was developing an exit plan. Jacinda never had an exit plan and so the “COVID elimination strategy” was born. Doomed to failure.
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December 4, 2023 9:54am
- Vinicius
  
  Thanks for the link to this BY.
  
  Starting at 59 minutes there is quite a lot of stuff about polling and voters, and JK’s view of Luxon.
  
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  December 4, 2023 11:35am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  I think you’re propagating fake news.
  
  The Herald published news articles during the pandemic about how Jacinda’s leadership was stellar. (The fact the articles were written by a Massey University academic and Labour Party activist seemed to be irrelevant).
  
  Is Jacinda not currently on the world stage lecturing about her leadership successes?
  
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  December 4, 2023 12:11pm
Jack5

Intelligent countries compete to recruit the cream of migrants – the highly skilled.

New Zealand recruits car cleaners and even Third World bee keepers (this is an NZ export industry where hygiene and other standards are highly important).

The mis-master mind behind the instance reported here is a former Maori Party candidate.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/immigration/133343933/migrants-left-with-no-work-struggle-with-mountain-of-debt-and-no-hope-of-paying-it-off
12 0
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December 4, 2023 9:58am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Oh well – Te Pati Maori doesn’t believe in exports (much to Thomas Coughlan’s concern during the election campaign, so hopefully he’ll keep following them up about that) so just bring in people who will supply domestic demand for all the essential stuff.
  
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  December 4, 2023 12:17pm
cas

There is so much rubbish on TV these days , that for those of us who don’t subscribe to Neon or Netflix etc it’s hard to find something to watch.

But I do have to praise Maori TV for its films. A few that they show are a bit old but they have a wonderful selection. I watched Older Than Ireland last night, all about Irish centenarians talking about a variety of topics. I loved the woman who, aged 103, came downstairs in her house and immediately lit up a cigarette. Another, aged 105, was filmed having a large glass of wine and worried about gardening too much in case she fell over. Lots of men in it too. Rather refreshing.
11 0
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December 4, 2023 10:26am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Use the JustWatch app and find who has what streaming where.
  
  4 0
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  December 4, 2023 11:45am
- kowtow
  
  Sorry but we get reamed of way too much of our hard earned for a race tv station to show movies , good bad or indifferent.
  
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  December 4, 2023 12:10pm
Maggie Pie

This vid from Invercargill intrigued me a wee bit.
The reference to a…. ‘Pedophile Flag’.

I wouldn’t even know what it looked like.
Anyone?

https://twitter.com/PamelaTaylor000/status/1731162290194706512
4 2
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December 4, 2023 10:44am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Typical woke police.
  
  4 4
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  December 4, 2023 10:51am
  - Ghost
    
    How are they woke Steve? They’re simply doing their job of serving a trespass notice
    
    2 1
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    December 4, 2023 11:26am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The cop would not answer questions. Just serving a notice full stop. A woke prick.
      
      5 1
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      December 4, 2023 1:11pm
      - Ghost
        
        What do you want the cop to answer? Her ravings that there is a pedophile flag on the window? They have a pedophile flag, they were photographing her in the toilets. She then asks about arresting the people sterilizing children. She seems a little detached and lashing out.
        
        Do you honestly believe a shop would have the map’s flag on it? More than likely it was the rainbow or trans flag.
        
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        December 4, 2023 1:26pm
- Ghost
  
  I’d be surprised if they had a pedophile flag on their window. There is a MAPs flag according to YouTube that resembles the rainbow flag.
  
  5 1
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  December 4, 2023 11:35am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Wonder if that’s what she’s referring to?
    Stands for… ‘MINOR ATTRACTED PERSONs’ 🙁
    
    I hope not. Really like Lush. The Naked Body Conditioner especially.
    
    6 2
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    December 4, 2023 11:44am
    - Ghost
      
      Yeah, someone in Dunedin needs to go investigate and let us know
      
      2 2
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      December 4, 2023 11:49am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

I have always said Luxon needs to HTFU.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/winston-peters-will-be-mentoring-luxon-on-how-to-act-like-a-prime-minister/
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December 4, 2023 10:48am
- KH
  
  Luxon is tougher than you think Steve. He just sticks to his course, the sniping does not concern him one bit.
  Also lets Winston Peyers roar. It’s good cover as Chris Luxon gets on with the work. Could be they organised it like that.
  
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  December 4, 2023 11:08am
  - lifesgood
    
    Yes, agree KH. I heard Luxon brushing off the journalists ravings about the govt getting the number of tobacco outlets in Northland wrong. He called the journalists “nit pickers” Go, Chris.
    
    13 1
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    December 4, 2023 11:33am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Peters is right. The media has been bought.
    
    13 3
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    December 4, 2023 11:51am
  - Jack5
    
    KH’s 11.08 post on Luxon: …just sticks to his course, the sniping does not concern him one bit.
    
    Meanwhile TVNZ and the State-subsidised traditional media are raging out of control. TV1 news tonight, as well as featuring Hipkins and Robertson, came close to inciting disorder with its pumping up of Maori Party demonstrations.
    
    If Luxon doesn’t unleash his attack dogs soon, State media bias will be reflected in opinion polls.
    
    Can a Government tolerate its own news media striving to bring it down?
    
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    December 4, 2023 6:56pm
    - KH
      
      He is not a panic person Jack. His will be the calm measured approach.
      Yap yap and rant is the province of The Maori Party. Counterproductive indeed.
      Maybe he is taking the Napoleon approach. “When the enemy is making a mistake, don’t stop him.”
      
      1 1
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      December 4, 2023 7:54pm
      - Jack5
        
        Napoleon called the shots on his side, and called them well till old Kutuzov lured him into having a break in Moscow. But he didn’t rely on anyone’s votes.
        
        An NZ political leader needs a free and fair media that isn’t trying to brainwash voters.
        
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        December 4, 2023 8:09pm
      - kowtow
        
        j5
        
        Lured ? or just an A grade arsehole narcissist who thought he could rule the world.
        
        0 0
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        December 4, 2023 8:33pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbJzdWuRy2Y
Mayor Has Car Stolen as he Meets Biden.
This happened in Denver. Democrats continue to reap what they have sown.. When will they learn? [11:18]
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December 4, 2023 10:54am
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA9CaR2j5yE
Minecraft | Pauline Hanson’s Please Explain.
The world runs on resources. Australia is the lucky country, we have abundant natural resources, and with them, we help power the world while creating jobs and bringing prosperity to our communities.

But there are those who want to shut down the resource sector for their own ideological reasons. They will do whatever it takes, even if it means strangling the nation in red tape that isn’t designed to increase safety or protect the environment, it’s designed to shut things down.
9 2
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December 4, 2023 10:55am
- MCōs
  
  Australia’s resources are only useful if they can sell them (same as our wool) as I found out to my dismay
  I worked in an office that produced steel drawings for fabricators constructing new plant for the Australian mining industry
  We had work for the whole office for years ahead until we didn’t because china cancelled forward orders
  Half the office was sent down the road including your correspondent . . .
  
  9 5
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  December 4, 2023 11:31am
  - kowtow
    
    The lesson there of course is don’t do too much business with unreliable markets.
    
    7 0
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    December 4, 2023 12:12pm
    - MCōs
      
      You have to take what you’re given. We were only part of a conglomerate and didn’t do our own marketing
      If China stopped importing logs, or whatever, from NZ there’d be a few places struggling until they could find new markets
      If you sold 25% of your output to one client and that suddenly dried up that can cause runctions
      
      8 2
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      December 4, 2023 1:33pm
      - kevn
        
        mcos… Bit like when NZ was locked down.
        
        7 0
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        December 4, 2023 1:49pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        UK joining the EEC
        
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        December 4, 2023 8:20pm
greybeard

What has happened to the ram-raids ?
Are they still occurring but not being reported ?

What has happened in regard to the Queenstown water quality problem?
Why has this suddenly disappeared entirely from any news coverage?
13 1
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December 4, 2023 11:13am
- lifesgood
  
  Our amazing new government has fixed them. I am joking but I am delighted with our new government.
  
  11 0
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  December 4, 2023 11:34am
- Bobba Fret
  
  There was one last night in Pakuranga.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/watch-pakuranga-ram-raid-over-20000-in-damage-for-4-soft-drink/YJYGBMZETVEYLOGMA3A5JYWF7U/
  
  Lets hope they are punished appropriately.
  
  10 0
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  December 4, 2023 11:58am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The bros left their car behind, how dumb!
    
    1 1
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    December 4, 2023 4:17pm
Maggie Pie

Green Party enter the Periodic Table as Element 119 following discovery of……

PURE RETARDIUM.
30 3
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December 4, 2023 11:23am
slightlyrighty

I see 72% of polled Canadians think Trudeau should step down.

https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/news-and-events/overview
15 1
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December 4, 2023 11:39am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Similar to NZ, still worrying that around 30% of the population aren’t very bright.
  
  13 3
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  December 4, 2023 12:10pm
- kowtow
  
  Crickey , enough of them voted for the black face loon often enough .
  
  8 1
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  December 4, 2023 12:14pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Trudeau is leader of minority Liberal party that got just 32% of vote in 2021, but is largest party in a left wing coalition. He’s unpopular, but proportional representation puts a lot of unpopular people in parliament.
    
    9 0
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    December 4, 2023 12:38pm
    - kowtow
      
      FPP not PR .
      
      3 0
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      December 4, 2023 4:00pm
Chuck Bird

Good on Brian Tamaki. The cowardly Jew Haters decided not to have him on.

Māori warriors SCARE Hamas supporters into retreat down under

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2h3c7UTlNc
15 5
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December 4, 2023 11:48am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  He has said publicly that, “He is not a fan of democracy”!!!
  
  2 0
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  December 4, 2023 2:18pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Brian should get back here and take on Waititi.
  
  9 1
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  December 4, 2023 2:19pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Brian supported Israel in Auckland and also supported Posey Parker’s crowd. None of those cowards would attack him and his flock there either.
    
    6 1
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    December 4, 2023 4:23pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      He also supported Stop Co-Governance rally down in Wiri at the Destiny Church I think. Never been much of a fan, but he sure has some clout.
      
      6 1
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      December 4, 2023 4:31pm
      - Jack5
        
        If you read down in this report, you will see Queensland Muslims are trying to get Tamaki shut out of Australia:
        
        https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/nov/18/queensland-muslims-ask-for-police-protection-over-new-zealand-far-right-activists-pro-israel-protest
        
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        December 4, 2023 8:22pm
DimChappie

It has begun. Maori Party plans rush-hour protests tomorrow (Tues):

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/national-maori-action-day-rush-hour-travel-disruption-as-te-pati-maori-calls-for-protests/BG227C3YWVHGHHN3WNDSLB6QBU/
15 2
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December 4, 2023 12:11pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Let’s see if the police respond accordingly. Or are they too tired after shutting down whistleblowers and anyone breaching the official narratives?
  
  17 3
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  December 4, 2023 1:13pm
- kevn
  
  Dim… That will ‘help’ (=not) their cause. Go for it. Go hard. Show us how stupid you are MP leaders.
  Will it make TV news? Yes, because it is anti government.
  
  9 1
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  December 4, 2023 1:51pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Does anybody have any idea how to translate the gobbledegook from Waititi and co into English?
  As best as I can figure, he doesn’t like this idea that people should be treated equally. I presume that he’s not keen on these pesky things called elections either.
  
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  December 4, 2023 2:05pm
  - Ghost
    
    Does the Harry Potter method work? Get in a bath with a over sexed girl ghost and put your head under water.
    
    1 2
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    December 4, 2023 2:11pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Perhaps someone can explain the symbolism of the 2 pistols in this image being used by The Maori Party for its “call to action”.
  
  https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Ftomorrows-going-to-be-an-interesting-day-in-parliament-te-v0-k1mhs08l164c1.png%3Fwidth%3D1212%26format%3Dpng%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D70480de619510b0266ba5aedf2ffc170b30d39b6
  
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  December 4, 2023 3:56pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I wonder if there will be re percussions.
    
    6 0
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    December 4, 2023 4:03pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I’m damn sure if Nats or Act ran a campaign for action that featured the use of firearms, there’d be an uproar from the lefties.
      
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      December 4, 2023 5:07pm
      - kowtow
        
        MW
        
        Agreed and in addition the woke crowd should also be miffed at all the colonial imagery and language there too.
        
        They really are the Clown Party .But winning.
        Taking the piss , getting well paid and larfing all the way to another colonial institution , the bank , capitalist at that !
        
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        December 4, 2023 7:12pm
    - kowtow
      
      mp
      
      VG I see what you did there .
      
      3 0
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      December 4, 2023 7:10pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Why not do it on a Friday afternoon in Auckland. See how many workers wanting to get home for a beer get fucked off with them.
  Woke Police on standby I hope.
  Hey wait, most are starting at 7am to 7.30am. Not even out of bed at that hour e hoa.
  
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  December 4, 2023 4:41pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Let’s hope they glue themselves to the road
  
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  December 4, 2023 8:22pm
ClanMcleod

Just a little reminder of just how horrific the last 4 years were and a message for the enablers and collaborators.

Eulogy for the COVID kapos.

With calls for amnesty and literal claims that “mistakes were made” resurfacing, it seems an appropriate time to remind the Covidians and colluders of their behavior and pivotal role in enabling tyranny. This is not intended to rub their noses in their cowardice but rather to inform them that humbly taking responsibility for their words and actions is the only way to heal the relationships they so callously ruptured; restore the freedoms they lazily ceded to the tyrants, philanthropaths, and propagandists; and prevent future rinse-and-repeat atrocities.

A wonderful blog post with many excellent links to details of the worst aspects of the covid responses.

https://margaretannaalice.substack.com/p/eulogy-for-the-covid-kapos
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December 4, 2023 12:13pm
Matt Long

“A Northland Principal” says smoking legislation is swapping lives for money.
Actually WELL KNOWN Labour unionist activist Pat Newman.
One News continues their Labour activism, sack the board, sell the dregs of state television.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/12/04/trading-lives-for-votes-northland-principal-slams-smokefree-changes/
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December 4, 2023 12:19pm
- Taieri
  
  “A Northland Principal” says smoking legislation is swapping lives for money.
  ——————–
  
  All current anti-smoking outrage is a very interesting phenomenon. Wish there was a similar outrage with regard to the surgery waiting lists or an availability of GPs…
  
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  December 4, 2023 2:19pm
- sungsamning
  
  Ah, I’d have bet the farm there was a Labour connection. thanks for the confirmation.
  
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  December 4, 2023 4:10pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I am thinking this is a diversion.
  “It comes after the government was fact-checked over Prime Minister Christopher Luxon’s claim that there would only be one tobacco retailer in the whole of Northland under Labour’s scrapped smokefree law changes.”
  One? Yes he did apologise for the mistake. Reading and understanding are two different things. Something still does not pass the snuff test here. What is it?
  
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  December 4, 2023 4:49pm
thirteenstars

Newshub: “The gender and ethnicity pay gap means that from the start of December, all Kiwi women, and many Maori, Pasifika and migrant men will work effectively for free until the end of the year. ”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7YSHeF2C4g

There is no gender or ethnicity pay gap. It’s an outright lie. For over 50 years it’s been illegal to pay people different rates for the same work.

The falsehoods in the “news report” (read:neo-Marxist propaganda) are staggering, complete with race-baiting language and the mandatory reference to colonialism.

One thing I did learn, it was under the previous National government that mandatory gender pay gap reporting was instituted for the public sector. No surprises there. Now the activists want it for the private sector. Luxon didn’t rule it out. Thank God for ACT.
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December 4, 2023 1:13pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Yes it is rubbish. They are chasing a phantom. Men and women make very different employment decisions.
  
  Why are most CEs of large corporations men? Because to get there requires a ruthless determination to see off rivals, to work 60, 70 hours per week and to single mindedly focus on the job.
  
  Why are 99 percent of plumbers men? Is it because there is ruthless cartel of male plumbers that has conspired to exclude women from plumbing apprentices?
  
  Why are 90 percent of nurses women?
  
  I could go on and on.
  
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  December 4, 2023 2:19pm
  - thirteenstars
    
    Here’s the classic debate between Jordan Peterson and a Channel 4 interviewer in which Peterson not only lays out the reasons why men and women choose and receive different outcomes but also shows a great deal of forbearance with the cynical feminist agenda being advanced by the interviewer:
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg2psply4no
    
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    December 4, 2023 2:51pm
  - artemisia
    
    Plumbers, nurses … When asked why most cars in Japan are white, the answer was because most cars in Japan are white.
    
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    December 4, 2023 3:37pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Men also tend to throw in the hours when wanting a deposit for a house.
    I did. 80 hours a week is not hard when you are younger.
    Oh, there are woman plumbers. They tend to repair/replace taps, washers, toilet cisterns. Don’t find them much sliding around in the mud with a burst supply hose under the house.
    No insult ladies, just a fact.
    
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    December 4, 2023 4:57pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Just tell them that the sliding about in the mud bit is the best part of the job
      
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      December 4, 2023 8:25pm
- Swifty
  
  These people are begging, literally begging, for employers to start being absolutely ruthless in stopping the hiring of all women and minorities in their lower paid roles, and offer those roles as much as possible to white men only, in order to keep their pay gaps minimised.
  
  And who will suffer as a result?
  
  Women and non-white folk who can kiss goodbye to entry-level, unskilled positions as a way of getting on the job ladder or to get a bit of extra money into the house.
  
  Mandatory pay gap reporting is not only a massive and unwelcome state overreach into the private sector but it also hands employers an incentive, an incentive they do now currently have, to actively discriminate in their hiring practices against women and non-white folk.
  
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  December 4, 2023 2:31pm
- Swifty
  
  There is a mountain of evidence against the merits of mandatory pay gap reporting, why just why don’t our news media organisations ever include someone to represent this thinking?
  
  Just once?
  
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  December 4, 2023 2:33pm
- Swifty
  
  “The migrant pay gap will persist until the constructs of colonialism and the system of racial capitalism it imposes are understood and addressed,” says Nina.”
  
  Riiiiiiight.
  
  https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/news/2022/12/19/young-lawyer-fights-for-fair-pay.html
  
  Clueless.
  
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  December 4, 2023 2:38pm
ClanMcleod

Igor Chudov’s update on the NZ data breach is worth looking at. More detail emerging which makes for very interesting reading.

VFF were approached by the whistleblower 2 years ago. They were (rightly) concerned about some aspects of how it was being handled. Liz Gunn may have been too eager to be the big noter on this. Time will tell.

At this point, I believe that Barry Young was more likely to be sincere than insincere in his intentions and actions.

My previous questions and comments about Liz Gunn’s statements about nursing home deaths and data quality still apply, with one exception: the partial nature of the data is explained by the fact that some shots were not paid through the system that Barry Young was supposedly administering. (I hope more clarity emerges).

This clarification is vital since I questioned the sincerity of the person who possibly risked his life to disclose data.

I greatly hope that, after thorough analysis, the data will yield useful information!

https://www.igor-chudov.com/p/update-nz-whistleblower?r=o7iqo
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December 4, 2023 1:18pm
- kevn
  
  Clan… Must be over the target to attract such a response.
  
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  December 4, 2023 1:54pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    kevn – of that there can be zero doubts. This could well be the one that cracks this thing open.
    
    The panicked response by authorities is telling. They are freaking out.
    
    10 3
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    December 4, 2023 3:54pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Clan:
      “and she ran” I said I would keep repeating this.
      She was not just the messenger, she is donkey deep in this.
      
      6 2
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      December 4, 2023 5:28pm
Maggie Pie

Goodness, I see where yet ANOTHER Craft Beer company has pulled the plug 🙁
My partner was saying that’s 4 this year that’ve hit the wall.
He’s got me heading over to NW shortly to stick up on his fave brew for Xmas.

It’s sooo sad for the country that Ardern and her useless commie cronies have left behind such a trail of financial and social destruction. She sure as heck picked the right time to hoof it out of here.
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December 4, 2023 1:57pm
- Ghost
  
  Weird, I would have thought Ardern drove people to drink.
  
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  December 4, 2023 2:13pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Ghost – she did which makes it doubly evil, create an addiction then remove the substance. She’s way more evil than I realised……..
    
    10 2
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    December 4, 2023 3:56pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I am already a drinker – but she may have made me worse.
    That’s what my partner says anyway LOL!
    
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    December 4, 2023 5:32pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  I doubt that NW would have run out of Tui 12-packs just yet.
  
  3 13
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  December 4, 2023 2:19pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Good to see YOU made it thru the weekend anyway milkey 😀
    
    https://tiktok.com/@javittsgonewild/video/6948858621182610694
    
    8 2
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    December 4, 2023 2:50pm
  - MCōs
    
    Watney’s Red Barrel
    
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    December 4, 2023 9:32pm
- kevn
  
  Maggie… Notice the proliferation of downtickers for anything and anybody here lately? Best they go get stranded.
  
  8 3
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  December 4, 2023 2:37pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I’m never too hard on them Kevie. It’s all they’ve got in their sad little lives.
    
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    December 4, 2023 2:57pm
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  Maggie – Which brewery is the latest casualty?
  
  2 2
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  December 4, 2023 3:11pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Beertique. My partner was saying it was quite a big player in the importation and distribution of local and UK craft beers.
    
    5 2
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    December 4, 2023 3:46pm
kevn

mma… You will have to wander/cycle/bus over to New World ‘Hutt City’ for your beer slab.
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December 4, 2023 2:36pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  OMG… imagine being condemned to live in ‘The Hutt’ all your lonely life 🙁
  
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  December 4, 2023 3:00pm
  - greybeard
    
    “The Hutt” must be one of the most depressing names ever inflicted on a region !
    
    Somehow it conjures-up a feeling of flatness, mediocrity, dullness and depression.
    
    Mind you, Auckland has “Flatbush”.
    
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    December 4, 2023 5:24pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      I recall Tina Turner doing a fab song about that!
      
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      December 4, 2023 6:42pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    “The Hutt” is an “effluent” suburb thanks.//
    
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    December 4, 2023 5:43pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    That’s Lower Hutt to you.
    
    Or, as the Latin scholars have it – Hutt Inferior
    
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    December 4, 2023 8:28pm
spanish_tudor

Another useless Labour MP succumbs to bovine petulance and pearl-clutching in opposition. It only took her a week:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/12/smokefree-laws-labour-mp-rachel-boyack-unable-to-back-up-claim-chris-bishop-s-past-as-tobacco-lobbyist-influenced-new-smoking-policy.html

Looks like another long stretch in opposition for this shower.
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December 4, 2023 3:19pm
- nathie
  
  Labour’s Got Talent! Not!
  
  Rachel Boyak, former union bully and defender of fellow Labour bully Shanan Halbert (now ex-MP) when she laid a complaint (several weeks later) against Tim van de Molen … now stoops into the gutter again to use bullying tactics against Chris Bishop.
  
  She nearly lost her electorate seat in the 2023 election, maybe next time it will be permanent!
  
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  December 4, 2023 4:50pm
goNZ1

Fasten seat belts kiwis – the ToW gravy train is resisting the coming Derailment :
per stuffed. ”Protest will mark the start of a new term in Parliament, with Te Pāti Māori asking iwi to unite for a National Māori Action Day on Tuesday as MPs arrive in Wellington”
More from Welly-
as Hamas lovers get organised? –
Suspicious packages found by Israeli and US Embassies – area in Lockdown as we speak…

and its only Monday
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December 4, 2023 3:25pm
- surfing
  
  Just goes to prove, the more Maori get given, the more they want to take.
  
  Protests with the objective of causing economic vandalism shouldn’t be allowed…they’re not even shy of admitting they are trying to cause economic damage…
  
  “Te Pāti Māori party secretary Lance Norman said they were expecting hundreds – potentially thousands – of vehicles to join convoys heading slowly into Auckland’s city centre along the state highways from the North Shore, the northwestern and southern motorways.
  
  He said the protests would likely cause “millions of dollars in lost productivity”.
  
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  December 4, 2023 5:28pm
  - kowtow
    
    So the intention is not “protest” but damage .
    
    Borderline criminality ,certainly morally .
    
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    December 4, 2023 8:29pm
Chris Nisbet

Any chance the police will clear the streets of the protestors tomorrow, so the rest of us can go about our lives?
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December 4, 2023 3:26pm
- Ghost
  
  Why? They have a right to protest. Groundswell slowed roads down in their protests, as have others.
  
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  December 4, 2023 3:39pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    Hope they don’t assemble at Parliament and have the hoses turned on them and loud music blaring, while politicians on balconies have a good laugh at them.
    But that won’t happen again will it.
    
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    December 4, 2023 3:48pm
    - Ghost
      
      Still, it’s their right to protest. I’d hope people on the right respect that and support their right to protest and free speech, because there are those on the left that would rather suppress people’s rights if it doesn’t fit into their narrow box.
      
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      December 4, 2023 4:10pm
      - rouppe
        
        Lampton Quay and Brandon St already closed off from what I hear.
        
        Third hand information though:
        Me<-colleague<-colleague's wife
        
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        December 4, 2023 4:22pm
      - Gravelroad
        
        I’m not saying that they don’t have a right to protest at all.
        Go for it .
        But they won’t be met with the same amount of disdain, disrespect and contempt from the politicians and media as did the last lot.
        And why would that be?
        
        8 1
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        December 4, 2023 4:26pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        Yup. I support their right to protest. Goose, gander and all that.
        
        5 0
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        December 4, 2023 5:26pm
      - rouppe
        
        Oh. Brandon St was a bomb squad…
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nzdf-bomb-squad-arrive-on-brandon-st/323CMCRK7DYAGBREVFUYCABHFI/
        
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        December 4, 2023 9:23pm
    - kowtow
      
      Will the media be banned from mingling ?
      
      Will the media allow themselves to be banned from mingling .
      
      nah , the mingers are gone now so the media can mingle .
      
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      December 4, 2023 7:00pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    What are they protesting about?
    
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    December 4, 2023 4:32pm
    - Ghost
      
      The government, the removal of Māori health, the change to the smoke free and anything else they can chuck into it
      
      6 0
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      December 4, 2023 4:36pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Yes, I tried hard to think about something specific that could be seen as oppressive or ‘anti’ Maori, but there is nothing.
        They just had a bunch of mugs in Labour and Greens who bowed down to their every demand and now crying because the adults are back in charge.
        
        3 2
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        December 4, 2023 7:11pm
      - Ghost
        
        Māori achieved far more under the Key government than any labour government. I believe the way forward is for luxon to reach out to and work with the iwi leaders. All we are seeing here is the labour, greens and Māori party plan for the next three years.
        
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        December 4, 2023 7:18pm
      - kowtow
        
        They’ve got MPs .
        Take it to the chamber , not the streets ,that’s what a modern , liberal democracy demands ……..not this threatening , barely disguised thuggery.
        
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        December 4, 2023 8:27pm
    - Gravelroad
      
      They don’t like the new government.
      It’s not fair.
      They are special people who need and deserve special stuff paid for by someone else.
      Worried that there might be a change in status, entitlements and influence now that Labour not in charge of the money, and giving out of same.
      
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      December 4, 2023 4:49pm
    - wsk12345
      
      Democracy is racist and all
      
      6 0
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      December 4, 2023 6:01pm
    - Philview
      
      Per TVNZ News tonight and TPM the protest is against state sanctioned terrorism
      
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      December 4, 2023 8:03pm
  - greybeard
    
    The word “protest” is not synonymous with “public nuisance”.
    
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    December 4, 2023 5:10pm
  - kowtow
    
    There’sa huge fricken difference .
    
    Here’s a political party well represented in parliament and which gets a disproportionately huge coverage from a very friendly media , taking their “grievance” to the streets , causing disruption and inconvenience to the vast majority of the public when they already have a seat at the table . Something Groundswell and others did not have.
    What’s the point of them being in parliament when they act like just another entitled , victimised street gang.
    
    F@#k ’em. And their apologists.
    
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    December 4, 2023 8:23pm
    - Ghost
      
      Doesn’t matter if they have mp’s. They have a right to protest. If you support free speech, if you support people expressing their rights in protest, then you cannot say I only support it for causes you support.
      
      Groundswell caused disruption. The mandate protest caused disruption.
      
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      December 4, 2023 8:36pm
goNZ1

not if Coster has anything to do with it
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December 4, 2023 3:35pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  That prick needs the DCM.
  Not going to happen!
  Now see what is going on with appointments? It is not Democratic.
  Councils – Maori appointed – not voted in.
  NZ Governments Parties, but a few Seats are ‘appointed.’
  I can give up, but I won’t. Appointed is RACISM.
  
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  December 4, 2023 6:09pm
goNZ1

meanwhile the Global Frying lobby has another bad day in Europe –
”All flights were grounded at Munich’s airport over the weekend after a winter storm dumped snow across southern Germany and parts of Austria, Switzerland and the Czech Republic, affecting travel across the region.
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December 4, 2023 3:38pm
- kevn
  
  goNZ… All those private jets frozen to the runways.
  https://www.zerohedge.com/weather/private-jets-headed-global-warming-conference-literally-frozen-runway
  Snow in Europes winter, how odd…
  
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  December 4, 2023 3:58pm
goNZ1

child abuse epidemic continues –
Craig Manukau was kicked to death by his father. He grew up with the same extended whānau as Baby Ru, according to Ru’s Great Aunty and his Uncle.

Where are the Hikoi over this outrage?
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December 4, 2023 3:45pm
goNZ1

Use the trains they said, use public transport and save the planet they said, its CHEAPER too they said.
Well look at this doozy sprung on Simeon Brown today per The Post LOL –
”A $750-million funding shortfall needs to be met or commuter trains may have to be cut, regional council tells transport minister.
Ho ho ho and our rates bills will be paying for this nonsense. Stuff it – put the train fares up a la User Pays
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December 4, 2023 3:51pm
kevn

Ghost… One protest had huge nationwide support, the other, one not so. The voters told us that.
The end result will be the opposite of hopes.
Mind you, the media will be rowing their boat as well. Anything anti the new coalition government, the msm are all in.
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December 4, 2023 3:53pm
- Ghost
  
  I doubt we will get anyone down here protesting. In most places it will be a failure., the usual left rent a crowd will be out.
  
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  December 4, 2023 3:59pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    I’m seriously trying to find out what exactly it is they are protesting about. I can’t find it anywhere. I know they don’t like the policy reversals, but they aren’t having any of their rights removed are they?
    
    All I can see is they are protesting not being given special privileges based on race?
    
    Has Luxon mandated learning te reo?
    
    8 2
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    December 4, 2023 5:15pm
    - Ghost
      
      The treaty stuff act and nz first want changed, abolishing Maori health, the smoke free stuff.
      
      It will be a good chance for luxon. Reach out to iwi leaders, meet with them regularly, work with them bypassing the Maori party and labour’s Maori mps. I think Key used to meet with them yearly.
      
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      December 4, 2023 5:32pm
  - kevn
    
    Ghost… Just North Island centres it seems. 3 protests in Auckland, 3 in Waikato and other places from Whangarei to Welly.
    Timaru and maybe South Island generally hasn’t enough early settlers to support any march of this flavour.
    
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    December 4, 2023 5:45pm
    - kowtow
      
      A north island early settler who was pushed south by other early settlers in the NI set about killing most of the other north island early settlers who settled in the south island .
      
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      December 4, 2023 6:57pm
goNZ1

back off Adrian Orr, you have swung from one extreme to the other at our expense!!
”New Zealanders are withdrawing money from their KiwiSaver schemes to help them through financial hardship at twice the rate of last year – and one supervisor says it’s largely because of rising interest rates”
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December 4, 2023 3:55pm
- Jack5
  
  Orr has no alternative.
  
  High interest rates are the only way to choke the inflation that Robertson and he himself set off with their printing of tens of billions of dollars through bond issues during the Covid shutdown.
  
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  December 4, 2023 7:12pm
kevn

goNZ… As per Maggies partner observation.
No wonder another craft/UK beer importer is folding. Many people can’t afford the flash beer.
Waikato and WeetBix it is folks.
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December 4, 2023 4:34pm
Maggie Pie

Listening to that guy Jason Walls on ZB still bleating to HDPA about “Luxon having to apologise about the number of tobacco outlets in Northland”

I’m picking his bought and paid for bosses must be feeding him a script with what to say. Nobody could be that fcuking stupid, surely?
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December 4, 2023 5:01pm
- krazykiwi
  
  I don’t recall Jason Walls asking Ardern to apologise for dividing the nation by vaccination status, or locking NZers out of their country, or destroying 1000s of small businesses, or, or … you get the picture.
  
  But Oh, Oh when Luxon makes a verbal mistake he’s expected to publicly beg for forgiveness.
  
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  December 4, 2023 5:18pm
  - kowtow
    
    He’s another complete cockwomble churnalist .
    
    I recall him gettinng his woke panties in a very tight twist over the police clearance op against the freedom folk at parliament .
    
    He said ‘my brother’s there as a cop and I’m so distressed’ ( or words to that effect) .
    
    Emotional incontinence is what te media pahti is made up of these days .
    
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    December 4, 2023 6:54pm
Swifty

The World Wrestling Federation opposes National’s oil and gas plans.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/133393127/new-zealand-shamed-at-global-climate-talks-with-fossil-award
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December 4, 2023 5:01pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Won’t click a stuff link … but this looks awesome. We should collect as many of these awards as possible. Perhaps we could project them on buildings, or mint coins depicting our climate shame achievements.
  
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  December 4, 2023 5:20pm
  - kowtow
    
    quite right too
    
    HDPA mentioned this “award” which is a non event.
    
    It’s awarded by some ngo type org called :climate action network .
    
    F@#k ’em.
    
    I reckon it should be a badge of honour.
    
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    December 4, 2023 6:51pm
    - nathie
      
      And she mentioned NZ also “won” this award in 2022 and in 2021 – when Jacinda/Chippie was PM and James Shaw was Climate Minister!
      
      That’s “odd” I don’t recall the media parody mentioning any of this back then!
      
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      December 4, 2023 7:40pm
      - kowtow
        
        media parody ; excellent.
        
        3 0
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        December 4, 2023 8:15pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    KK – reverse psychology, like this BBQ company in Florida who used their 1 star review to put on their T shirts. I want one!
    
    https://ifunny.co/picture/jonnson-bbq-in-plant-city-florida-just-released-t-shirts-WTAGxdLSA
    
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    December 4, 2023 8:12pm
- Jack5
  
  From Stuff: Forest & Bird’s Bianca Ranson nominated her home country at the annual UN climate talks.
  
  The Bianca Ranson, of Potiki Ventures, Waiheke.
  
  Ranson has been on TedX describing, in the program’s words, “her journey from an education in a total immersion Maori to running an award-winning business that combines Maori culture and the natural environment.”
  
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  December 4, 2023 7:05pm
  - Jack5
    
    How many New Zealand Greenies are among the 80,000 Greenies and sycophant diplomats who flew to Dubai for the UN climate summit?
    
    How much carbon pollution from jet fuel has this mob of 🌿Greenies created?
    
    https://www.gulftoday.ae/news/2023/12/01/with-80000-attendees-cop28-in-dubai-is-largest-un-climate-summit-ever
    
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    December 4, 2023 7:54pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    One to avoid, cheers Jack5.
    
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    December 4, 2023 8:14pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      C’mon, Clan. Don’t be so dour. Once I’ve finished gnawing my own arm off I’d be more than happy to learn more about Ms Ranson’s ‘journey’
      
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      December 4, 2023 9:26pm
Ghost

Surprise, surprise.

Thanks Grant

Willis said she was concerned by the size of the financial “challenges” left by the outgoing Government.

These included risks referred to previously, but where the true scale and urgency had not been made clear, including commercial sensitivity.

Some of these risks were much larger than suggested.

Willis said she was also surprised by the number of Government programmes with funding set to expire. She believed this was “disingenuous” as it made the books look better than they really were. Willis said one example was a “massive fiscal cliff” in Pharmac funding.

The sum was likely to approach many billions of dollars over the forecast period.

Article
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December 4, 2023 5:08pm
- kevn
  
  Funny how robberson has just disappeared into the shadows. RWC trip to France was his last grasp of entitlement.
  
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  December 4, 2023 5:48pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    He was on Te News tonight pompously putting the new Finance Minister firmly in her place.
    An odious entitled man.
    
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    December 4, 2023 7:02pm
    - Jack5
      
      Agreed, Robertson is on TVNZ daily, or nightly, it seems.
      
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      December 4, 2023 7:09pm
Suze Wainwright

Great to see the PSA encouraging its members to protest tomorrow – just don’t tell anyone who you work for…
11 0
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December 4, 2023 5:22pm
greybeard

Nice juxtaposition of headlines on Stuff website:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/133391888/te-pti-mori-plans-protests-across-the-north-island-as-parliament-restarts

and

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/133344069/baby-rus-death-the-second-child-homicide-suffered-by-extended-whnau

Do they have sub-editors any more ?
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December 4, 2023 5:28pm
kevn

grey… Priorities you know, me, me, me. Them? pfft
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December 4, 2023 5:49pm
ClanMcleod

Replay coming up now of this morning’s RCR interview with Guy Hatchard and Alistair Harding.
It’s an excellent discussion re the data dump.

https://realitycheck.radio/
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December 4, 2023 5:55pm
- dcrane
  
  Good discussion. Glad to know about this channel.
  
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  December 4, 2023 6:22pm
Bridgenag

Sunday Strip: Cacafornia here I come.
Four years to ruin a state…

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/sunday-strip-cacafornia-here-i-come?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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December 4, 2023 6:03pm
dcrane

Sean Plunket very effectively exposed on the vaccine data leak issue by a polite caller:

https://twitter.com/c_plushie/status/1731523715933098026
8 1
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December 4, 2023 6:13pm
- kevn
  
  dcrane… Oh well, it’s all about Plunketts Platform ratings I guess.
  Reality Radio is quite good. Plunkett even dismisses them.
  He comes over as an overbearing plonker really.
  
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  December 4, 2023 7:53pm
Gravelroad

Can someone who knows either confirm or deny that the cancelling of the cigarette “health” programmes was a bottom line for Mr Peters to join the coalition government?
And if it was one of his demands for support, is there anyone in NZ 1st who would have the guts to step forward to now admit it?
Or is it just easier to leave Luxon and National to lead and manage the increasingly hysterical and opportunistic rhetoric by themselves?
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December 4, 2023 7:08pm
- dcrane
  
  Regardless of the answer to your question, Luxon and Seymour (and Winston) should just grow a spine and ignore the furiously sputtering media. Just *calmly* do what they were elected to do and they will be rewarded with an even larger majority in 3 years.
  
  Yeah easier said than done. But for goodness’ sake the media are not a respected entity right now so don’t understand why our leaders shouldn’t be able to handle a lot of this so-called heat.
  
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  December 4, 2023 7:15pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    It’s not just the media though, is it.
    People marching in the streets about it tomorrow and Maori party woman on news earlier claiming it is government sponsored genocide.
    
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    December 4, 2023 7:50pm
- Jack5
  
  Doesn’t matter who suggested the cigarette policy, it was right.
  
  Pricing the smoking habit out had reached its limit, and was fuelling crime and hurting those poor families containing irreversibly addicted smokers.
  
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  December 4, 2023 7:18pm
kevn

Gravel… Strange that vaping seems to be off any agenda apart from some tweaking.
I would suggest that excess booze is a much greater problem than any smoking.
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December 4, 2023 7:17pm
- Jack5
  
  Easy, Kevn … if Labour and its mates get back into power, they’re crazy enough to try to price alcohol into oblivion.
  
  The only ones left with enough guns to start up Al Capone style organisations will be our already criminal gangs.
  
  The Ardern mob took the dangerous guns off everyone-else.
  
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  December 4, 2023 7:37pm

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