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December 3, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 03 December 2023

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Vinicius

When 54th Parliament opens next Tuesday all MPs must swear the oath of allegiance to reigning sovereign of New Zealand.

Te Pati Maori have released a press statement about the oath which in part states:

“Māori owe no allegiance to the genocidal legacy of the British Empire.”

AND

“This is symbolic of the colonial power that Parliament places above the mana of tangata whenua, and the constraints that are placed on Māori MPs representing their people.”

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2312/S00008/an-oath-to-our-mokopuna.htm

Clive Boonhan a retired barrister and solicitor writes about the procedures relating to the oath of allegiance, its meaning and what happens if an MP refuses to swear the oath in either english or Te Reo Maori.

Seems to me the opening of Parliament next week might not be such a snore fest after all.

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/clive-boonham-swearing-in-of-new-mps-the-constitution-versus-the-treaty-activists.
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December 3, 2023 8:01am
- slightlyrighty
  
  To me, it’s the incrementalism of the radicalism that concerns me.
  
  Te Pati Maori seems intent on pushing and pushing until someone pushes back. TPM will them react by claiming racism and oppression.
  
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  December 3, 2023 10:08am
- Dougal10
  
  I find this very simple. If you don’t follow the rules and get sworn in , you don’t get to be in parliament with its pay and perks. That this would remove 7 mouths from the trough is an absolute bonus
  
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  December 3, 2023 11:45am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    It seems rather odd that people would volunteer to participate in the process of being elected to the Parliament, and then choose not to abide by it’s rules.
    
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    December 3, 2023 12:10pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Activists, not people.
      
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      December 4, 2023 3:16pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I would favour no second chances. If you refuse to take the oath – goodbye. Next list candidate comes in. Things would change very fast. 🙂
    
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    December 3, 2023 6:05pm
- rouppe
  
  The Maori Party are pretty dim.
  
  If there was a genocidal legacy, they wouldn’t be here.
  
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  December 3, 2023 12:34pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Which is exactly what would have happened if the Spanish had landed here. If it had been the French, it would have been “You are all French”. Anyone who disagreed, dead.
    
    They got the right colonisers 🙂
    
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    December 3, 2023 6:07pm
    - Scott
      
      As a descendant of one of the French settlers to Akaroa in 1840 I beg to differ. The local Maori today would be beautifully dressed in bespoke suits and designers sunglasses. They would drive the latest Peugeot to excellent local cafes to partake of fine food and drink a cheeky little Chablis. 😁
      
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      December 3, 2023 6:48pm
      - waikatosinger
        
        Just like they do in Vietnam, Lebanon and Haiti.
        
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        December 3, 2023 7:28pm
      - Jack5
        
        Benedict (6.07) says NZ got the “right colonisers” and contrasts this with French colonisers.
        
        But did the French get the right Polynesian colony?
        
        https://youtu.be/ab_tYof60I4?si=PKWEGJ82peOUeFkp
        
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        December 3, 2023 7:52pm
      - Sarkozygroupie
        
        You obviously haven’t come face to face with the Māori Elite (I have). This is exactly how they dress and behave. Haute couture, expensive Italian leather high heels, beautifully coiffed hair.
        
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        December 3, 2023 9:54pm
- I remember when
  
  “Maori owe no allegiance to the genocidal legacy of the British Empire.”
  Maori didn’t colonialise anyone – they killed or enslaved them all.
  
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  December 3, 2023 12:46pm
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    And ate them… just sayin’
    
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    December 3, 2023 7:25pm
  - waikatosinger
    
    Maybe you could call what they did in the Chatham’s colonisation. Genocide too for that matter.
    
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    December 3, 2023 7:30pm
- dcrane
  
  The Labour-led government raked together a big pile of dry race tinder just waiting for a spark to ignite into strife.
  
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  December 3, 2023 1:15pm
- Damocles11
  
  Article the First
  These are the words of the first article of the Treaty of Waitangi.
  
  “The Chiefs assembled including Chiefs not present at the assembly hereby cede absolutely to the Queen of England for ever the Government of all of their lands”
  
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  December 3, 2023 1:26pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  “If they don’t swear the oath they cannot sit or vote in Parliament and they do not get paid”
  
  Let’s see what price TPM put on their principles.
  
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  December 3, 2023 3:29pm
  - Ghost
    
    This comes up every time, they always swear it in Māori and move on.
    
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    December 3, 2023 3:51pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    That has been the way it works in the UK, and it should be applied here.
    
    Sien Fein have won seats in Northern Ireland to the Westminster Parliament since the 1980s, but refuse to swear allegiance to the British monarch, so they have taken their seats in the House of Commons.
    
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    December 3, 2023 8:24pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “It is not the equal partnership that was consented to by Te Tiriti o Waitangi.”
  
  There is no partnership, so stop saying there is!
  
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  December 4, 2023 3:15pm
Scott

On Tuesday all the MPs in the new parliament will have to swear an oath of allegiance to King Charles. If you don’t swear an oath to the King you can’t take a seat in the new parliament.

On 1st Dec, in anticipation of the swearing in, the Maori Party put out this press release –
“To the sovereign of England, we say history will judge whether you have the moral capacity to shoulder responsibility for your family’s heinous legacy. It is beyond you to restore its honour – the harm caused by your Crown is now intergenerational and irreparable. Indigenous blood stains the throne you on.

We do not consent, we do not surrender, we do not cede, we do not submit; we, the indigenous, are rising. We do not buy into the colonial fictions this House is built upon.Te Pāti Māori pledges allegiance to our mokopuna, our whenua, and Te Tiriti o Waitangi. We will continue to do our best by you, in accordance to our tikanga, amongst the monsters whose portraits still hang on the walls of Parliament.”

” We the indigenous are rising. ”
I would be interested in what a legal person thinks of that statement?
How is that not sedition?

https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2023/12/clive-boonham-swearing-in-of-new-mps.html?m=1
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December 3, 2023 8:02am
- Benedict Yu
  
  It is only a short step from that rhetoric to ethnic violence.
  
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  December 3, 2023 9:42am
  - goNZ1
    
    Hopefully the SIS will be onto them,and or have some spies embedded with TPM.
    I predict chaos in Parliament,given the combined number MPs comprising Marxists and Separatists who will be out to rebel and grandstand for the cameras and ferals in the public gallery. Brownlee will have to take a hard line at the start and the Sgt-at -Arms will need physical ability not merely ceremonial.I would expect to see multiple plainclothes police also in the Gallery as the Coalition leaders will be targeted .
    This is where the rubber hits the road in NZ, as the Adern legacy of promising all things to iwi and promoting wokery in all its forms bears fruit. The gangs won’t go quietly either by the way. Hamas lovers are active in the youth and Institutions and I don’t envy Jews in this country as Israel secures its borders by force.
    
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    December 3, 2023 12:53pm
    - Sarkozygroupie
      
      It’s all tub thumping theatrics.
      
      Rawiri Waititi was down at the pub the other night having a ciggy out on the deck and chewing the fat at length with Sean Plunket the other night, in a fit of normality. John Tamihere was doing the same with Leo Molloy at his bar up in Auckland.
      
      When they are not ‘in character’ playing to the gallery/media/vested interests/ethno-state Leftists they are just behaving like normal people and gasp fraternising quietly happily with the evil white Colonialists!
      
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      December 3, 2023 10:10pm
- Colinxy
  
  The mythological Marxian judge (“history”) being invoked: “…we say history will judge whether you have the moral…”
  
  Let’s not forget the all-important contradiction within the Marxian dialectic:
  
  “Te Pāti Māori pledges allegiance to … Te Tiriti o Waitangi.”
  
  I seem to recall a rather important person on the Treaty that contradicts the earlier to the latter.
  
  And of course, if you know your Marxist (Hegelian) dialectic, you know thesis plus its contradiction through struggle becomes synthesis. That struggle is stated plainly: “We the indigenous are rising.”
  
  I am pointing how Marxist the Maori Party actually is within just one press release.
  
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  December 3, 2023 10:46am
- thirteenstars
  
  Sedition is not a crime in NZ.
  
  Further, the press release from Maori Party members is a fig leaf. They will take the oath, a few words of protest aside. And they will take it because without being sworn they cannot get their colonialist-derived salaries or have a forum for their outrage.
  
  What happens if certain members-elect refuse to be sworn in? Since it doesn’t affect the formation of a government perhaps their seats in the house can remain vacant and the courts can be left to decide their fate. I’d prefer parliament fulfill its role as the highest court by enacting a solution because this occurrence is not going to be isolated.
  
  But, they’ll take the oath.
  
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  December 3, 2023 11:29am
  - Scott
    
    My understanding is that sedition is a crime in NZ? That treason has been removed from the criminal statutes? I’d be interested in comments from people with legal expertise?
    
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    December 3, 2023 12:22pm
    - NoFax
      
      Crimes (Repeal of Seditious Offences) Amendment Act 2007 removed sedition as a crime in NZ. Section 73 Crimes Act 1961 is still in effect and makes treason a crime.
      
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      December 3, 2023 1:08pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      It was until 2007 when the Crimes (Repeal of Seditious Offences) Amendment Act 2007 was passed. It removed the crime of sedition from the New Zealand statute book.
      
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      December 3, 2023 1:18pm
- Dave
  
  Will this also mean/lead to removing the crown from the NZ coat of arms?
  
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  December 3, 2023 1:28pm
Souvlaki

The opening of Parliament on Tuesday has the potential for entertaining viewing ! Will Waititi do a ‘Dun Mihaka’ and ‘moon’ Gerry Brownlee as the Kings Representative?
This is a good read by way of preparing for the circus 🙂 : https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/clive-boonham-swearing-in-of-new-mps-the-constitution-versus-the-treaty-activists
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December 3, 2023 8:06am
- Benedict Yu
  
  The Speaker is not the representative of the King. That is the Governor General.
  
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  December 3, 2023 8:13am
  - peterwn
    
    When His Majesty visits NZ, the Speaker is the representative of His Majesty, the Governor General takes a back seat.
    
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    December 3, 2023 8:55am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      You will need to provide a citation to convince me 🙂
      
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      December 3, 2023 9:43am
      - pdm
        
        Me too.
        
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        December 3, 2023 9:52am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Speaker is the head when in parliament, remember Mallard was fully in charge during the protest, pretty sure in parliament the speaker would be the Kings top man, the pm would not be leading the King around.
        
        When I visited parliament a few years ago, there is a chair on a rostrum, the King speaks from that rostrum when he is there, do you realise that if you walk up to that rostrum, that you can officially be put to death, it’s the only death sentence that still exists in this country.
        
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        December 3, 2023 10:26am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “pretty sure in parliament the speaker would be the Kings top man,”
        
        You also need to provide a citation.
        
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        December 3, 2023 10:34am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        The speaker is “parliament’s man”. The confusion that the speaker represents the Crown might come from being third placed in the order of precedence, after the governor-general and PM.
        And no, there is no death penalty in NZ, let alone for a minor breach of protocol.
        
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        December 3, 2023 10:48am
      - Dave
        
        Lots of inexplicable down ticks for mma @10.48. Those who think the speaker is the monarch’s representative might ask themselves the origin and meaning of the ceremony in which speakers are ‘dragged’ to their chair.
        
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        December 3, 2023 1:48pm
      - peterwn
        
        Not sure where to start looking for a citation. But suffice to say that when His Majesty is in NZ he would chair the ‘Executive Council’ (similar to Cabinet but for chair) and not the Governor General. A special Order in Council would be prepared for His Majesty to sign.
        There cannot be both the King and the King’s representative in NZ at the same time. That is why the GG would temporarily step aside when His Majesty is in NZ.
        
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        December 3, 2023 9:34pm
    - Cassandra
      
      Nonsense.
      
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      December 3, 2023 12:01pm
- CJames
  
  What will be more interesting is how the Greens and Maori Party will swear allegance to the King. They can’t opt out or change the words. If they don’t do it, they aren’t MPs and don’t get paid.
  Then there is what they will wear. I think Gerry will stamp his authority once he takes his seat, so there will be more hissy fits.
  
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  December 3, 2023 8:35am
  - Gravelroad
    
    The Green and Maori parties need to grow up and get a grip on reality.
    Parliament is not a playground for gangs of attention seeking kids fighting for territory.
    They are supposed to be mature adults whose focus is the successful governance of New Zealand Inc.
    But no, it is all about them and their needs and demands and NZ Inc can go to hell.
    
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    December 3, 2023 8:47am
    - Cassandra
      
      They’re entitled to make a point eg like Sinn Fein, but whether their voters will agree with a boycott (also Ireland) come the next election will be interesting (that is if you give a flying f….. about these racist idiots).
      
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      December 3, 2023 8:54am
      - CJames
        
        Sinn Fein make their point by being elected to the UK parliament but never being there. As they haven’t been sworn in, they aren’t paid.
        
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        December 3, 2023 10:25am
    - MCōs
      
      “Parliament is not a playground for gangs of attention seeking kids fighting for territory.”
      
      Yes it is.
      Always has been
      
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      December 3, 2023 9:22am
    - goNZ1
      
      Too late sorry,the genie is out of the bottle and there is a very good reason why Adern is out of the country, as shit hits fan
      
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      December 3, 2023 12:57pm
  - pdm
    
    `What will be more interesting is how the Greens and Maori Party will swear allegiance to the King.’
    
    What about `wee willie Jackson’?
    
    Do re-elected MP’s have too take the oath too or is it a one time requirement.
    
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    December 3, 2023 9:55am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      No one is an Mp at present, ministers are sworn in, but they will all have to come up in groups and read the elegance
      
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      December 3, 2023 10:30am
      - gravedodger
        
        They might be asked to state the oath and swear allegiance to His Majesty King Charles III, G the giant.
        
        I think there is some flexibility on the oath and the Bible but the allegiance is absolute, “no swear no pay”, ‘elegance’ is optional. LoL.
        
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        December 3, 2023 1:46pm
    - Sarkozygroupie
      
      Every session of Parliament is discrete, therefore there needs to be a swearing in ceremony for this new and separate 54th Parliament by all (re-elected and new) MPs.
      
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      December 3, 2023 10:43am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    They get a choice, there is two seperate documents for swearing in
    
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    December 3, 2023 10:27am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Well, with the new government creating a Schutzstaffel to exterminate their people, how else would you expect the Waititi & Packer show to behave…?
  
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  December 3, 2023 8:52am
  - rouppe
    
    In whose mind?
    
    The Maori Party and the Greens are the biggest fascists in parliament, any Schutzstaffel will be theirs.
    
    They’re the ones threatening violence, after all.
    
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    December 3, 2023 12:42pm
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      Just trying to relate to TPM/Green hyperbole…
      
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      December 3, 2023 2:38pm
  - Damocles11
    
    Article the First
    These are the words of the first article of the Treaty of Waitangi.
    
    “The Chiefs assembled including Chiefs not present at the assembly hereby cede absolutely to the Queen of England for ever the Government of all of their lands”
    
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    December 3, 2023 1:29pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  If they want Our House of Representatives to remove (members of) the British Royal Family as our Head of State, then they’ll either have to take an Oath of Allegiance to the King, or wait for some other folks to plead their case.
  
  https://www.maoriparty.org.nz/remove_british_royal_family
  
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  December 3, 2023 9:25am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    It’s perfectly reasonable for a parliamentarian to swear allegiance to the king and then advocate for a change to our constitution to abolish the monarchy.
    
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    December 3, 2023 9:27am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Swearing allegiance to someone sounds like the opposite to abolition.
      
      To argue for abolition must surely require allegiance to first be withdrawn.
      
      That would mean they are then ineligible to be a member of the Parliament .
      
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      December 3, 2023 10:20am
    - Nukuleka
      
      That’s not quite the point at issue is it Mike? It’s whether they are prepared to swear the oath of allegiance in the first place, as they are legally bound to do, before taking their seats in the House of Representatives. It is of course perfectly reasonable to then advocate for a republic if they wish so to do. But ‘reasonable’ and ‘Maori Party’ don’t sit well within the same sentence. If they end up trying to hijack and politicize the ceremony I hope Gerry – if he is in charge of the proceedings- has a clear plan of action in place.
      
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      December 3, 2023 10:22am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        It’s been tried before, and the speaker did not allow it.
        
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        December 3, 2023 10:50am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Pretty sure they can swear to God or the King, there are two separate ways to swear
    
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    December 3, 2023 10:32am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I think you might be confusing the option to swear an oath of allegiance, which invokes a deity, with the affirmation of allegiance, which is secular.
      
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      December 3, 2023 10:51am
- lastmanstanding
  
  These Mongrels should reflect their ancestors signed the Treaty with the Crown. If they refuse to take the Oath they are insulting their ancestors. Maori are always banging on about how they respect their ancestors. I say BullShit in this case.
  
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  December 3, 2023 9:31am
- Ghost
  
  When the queen died did the mp’s have to swear allegiance to the king?
  
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  December 3, 2023 10:39am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    No, because the oath or affirmation covered the monarch and the monarch’s heirs and successors.
    
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    December 3, 2023 10:53am
    - Ghost
      
      Thanks for that, not sure why you got downvoted.
      
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      December 3, 2023 10:43pm
Benedict Yu

A timely reminder that Kiwibuild is still smouldering away. 🤡

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/301016530/how-a-developer-ransomed-the-government-for-a-378-million-bailout

Chris Bishop really has his work cut out.

He will be commissioning a full review of their financial position and management practices. That won’t be cheap if he wants serious financial analysts to do the job. However the cost will be chicken feed against the potential benefits.
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December 3, 2023 8:07am
- Vinicius
  
  These quotes from the article says it all:
  
  “Cabinet ministers allowed the housing agency to pay up against the advice of the Treasury”.
  
  “Chris Hipkins, Carmel Sepuloni, Grant Robertson, Megan Woods and Kelvin Davis were each named on a document seeking approval.”
  
  What other poor financial management is going to be revealed in the HYEFU?
  
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  December 3, 2023 8:29am
  - pdm
    
    `“Chris Hipkins, Carmel Sepuloni, Grant Robertson, Megan Woods and Kelvin Davis were each named on a document seeking approval.”’
    
    Total business and financial acumen for that 5
    equals – Zero, Zilch SFA.
    
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    December 3, 2023 10:00am
    - goNZ1
      
      And the media asks Chippy why he was in a good mood. Pretty obvious isn’t it !?
      
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      December 3, 2023 1:01pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    If they were Directors then they would likely be personally liable for such expenditure.
    
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    December 3, 2023 3:35pm
- PeeJay
  
  KO is one of the biggest disasters ever inflicted upon this country – it’s debt position and what it has managed to get away with should be a national scandal. They have driven up land prices (they over bid almost always), they allow consultants to charge a fortune (which filters through into non-KO work), construction costs have rocketed for gold plated designs, and they allow their tenants to behave like animals with no consequences.
  
  KO should be closed, the offices locked and burnt to the ground. From the ashes, a new social housing agency should be formed – properly focussed on cheap, affordable accommodation, only the best front line staff should he transferred to the new agency and the new agency should not be the sole source of social housing.
  
  Unfortunately, I suspect we will see some tinkering around the edges and any staff headcount reduction will probably see the good staff given the DCM while the highly paid comm’s and extensive managerial class remain in situ.
  
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  December 3, 2023 9:00am
- greybeard
  
  This is what happens when politicians meddle with market prices.
  
  “Maher said he was now nervous because when they bought the price was $650,000, but KiwiBuild caps for three bedroom homes had since increased to $860,000. The developer, therefore, might stand to gain by using the sunset clause to exit the agreement, he said.”
  
  It appears to be legal but the true reasons for invoking the sunset clause are not mentioned, although this could be a clue:
  “…developer’s engineer wouldn’t sign off on practical completion.”
  But no reason is given for the engineer not signing-off.
  Maybe someone should ask the engineer.
  
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  December 3, 2023 9:11am
  - All_on_Red
    
    The Purchasers Lawyer should never have allowed a Sunset Clause in favour of the Vendor.
    In favour of the Purchaser yes, but Vendor no.
    That’s really bad.
    
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    December 3, 2023 9:30am
    - Colville
      
      No developers bank is going to enter into a contract where they are bound forever beyond their control.
      
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      December 3, 2023 11:59am
      - All_on_Red
        
        The Developers Bank would be happy with the Vendor having a Sunset Clause as the Bank could have some control over that being exercised as the Developer would assign their interest in the SPA as part of the Security but with regard to Purchasers having one, the Bank will always insist on extending the Term to allow ‘slippage’ on construction timing. We used to add 12mths to 24mnths past projected Completion date- depending on the size of the Project.
        Purchasers have Statutory protection to Cancel anyway in the RMA under S225 2(b)
        ‘(b) that the purchaser may, at any time after the expiration of 2 years after the date of granting of the resource consent or 1 year after the date of the agreement, whichever is the later, by notice in writing to the vendor, rescind the contract if the vendor has not made reasonable progress towards submitting a survey plan to the territorial authority for its approval or has not deposited the survey plan within a reasonable time after the date of its approval.’
        
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        December 3, 2023 12:19pm
- Surely Knott
  
  I note the language in the headline. Last week the media ran numerous articles demanding apologies and action against Winston for claiming the media had been “bribed”. But the media use the exact same style of hyperbolic language when they claim a developer , negotiating with govt re unworkable kiwi build price caps, is holding the govt to “ransom”.
  
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  December 3, 2023 10:20am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Turns out that e-ciggies include cobalt, no doubt mined by children in the Congo. Who knew.

Perhaps this should be factored into the vapes conversation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-67569996
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December 3, 2023 8:08am
- cmm
  
  Pretty much all products with rechargeable batteries have cobalt in them: phones, EVs, vapes, cordless drills, Bluetooth headphones,…
  
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  December 3, 2023 10:21am
- miltonF
  
  All lithium ION batteries contain cobalt.
  
  Lithium IRON phosphate batteries do not contain any cobalt.
  
  Lithium ion batteries are more energy dense than lithium iron batteries, but tend to have a much lesser lifetime. Lithium ion batteries also tend to be more expansive than lithium iron.
  
  For example, the long range Tesla cars use lithium ion batteries to achieve the longest range possible, whereas the cheaper Tesla cars use lithium iron batteries to reduce the cost. The majority of Tesla cars sold contain the cheaper cobalt-free lithium iron batteries.
  
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  December 3, 2023 4:22pm
krazykiwi

The whistleblower dataset I’d planned to analyze was taken down, but Igor Chudov (whom I’ve come to respect) got the data and ran pretty much all the data quality verification SQL queries that I had in mind: Duplications, broken sequences, orphan records and more. His analysis is here. He is skeptical, as am I after reading his post. The best way so settle the issue of data veracity and/or vaccine harm would be for the Ministry to publish an anonymized record level dataset for independent analysis. That they, and to be fair most other public health agencies across the globe, refuse to do this only strengthens my view that vax-caused illness and death is being covered up.
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December 3, 2023 8:13am
- Benedict Yu
  
  In some respects that is reassuring. I was kind of alarmed at the revelation that all 51 people vaccinated at one site are now dead. ☹️
  
  I agree that the Ministry should release the data.
  
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  December 3, 2023 8:17am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    The notion that ‘all 51 people vaccinated at one site are now dead’ was a clear signal that this was nonsense.
    As for the release of data, if it didn’t show what the crazies claim, they would simply claim that the data was fake.
    
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    December 3, 2023 8:23am
    - mandk
      
      No, the real crazies are the ones who insist that the vaxx is safe and effective.
      
      Are you in the safe and effective camp, mma?
      
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      December 3, 2023 8:31am
    - Philview
      
      I have always wondered why the NZ media are happy to stick the boot into the AstraZeneca vaccine but attack people making similar claims about the Pfizer vaccine. Anecdotally I know several fit and healthy people who are in their 40s and have had heart issues in the last 18 months. I will not bother having another booster for that reason.
      
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      December 3, 2023 8:49am
    - Lee C
      
      “As for the release of data, if it didn’t show what the crazies claim, they would simply claim that the data was fake.”
      
      A bit like you just did, Mike.
      
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      December 3, 2023 8:53am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Just grounded in experience, Lee.
        
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        December 3, 2023 8:57am
    - KH
      
      “51 people vaccinated at one site are dead”
      Tui advert.
      or.
      Tell me what site, location date etc.
      Who are the 52 people? Names ages locations date of death. etc
      If it was that major those saying it happened would have no problems finding the info. Too hard to hide. I am waiting.
      Or it was garbage.
      
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      December 3, 2023 8:54am
      - CJames
        
        The 51 dead might be absolutely correct. It was say a dementia ward or a hospice. Without context, it has no validity.
        
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        December 3, 2023 9:41am
      - Keith White
        
        You could always go and do your own on-the- ground checks at your regional cemeteries and look back at the numbers of funerals in any given month up to say three years ago, and look at the spikes and funerals following the rollout of the vaccine.
        
        You will then see – as others who did that work have seen – that significant peaks above the usual 120 deaths a day have occurred in sequential temporal association with the vaccine rollout. Not with the lockdowns, and not with spreading Covid infection reports.
        
        Correlation is of course not causation; but as others have pointed out, what is another cause for these excess deaths? Occam’s got his razor out and is waiting.
        
        Last but not at all trivially, while the New Zealand Ministry of Health still refuses to release batch numbers and batch history even to the individuals who have had serious illnesses or family members die after the injection, it is evident from substantial research overseas that some batches of the mRNA injection are significantly more likely, up to 2 orders of magnitude more likely, to have serious illness and death as a consequence of them being injected.
        
        This (‘bad batch’) information is available in the public domain in the US (not all States) and in the UK, but not in NZ, not even via the OIA.
        
        The average rate of increase in serious effects – of the 10 worst batches – is seven-fold; a few batches have measuredly increased post-injection risk 10-100 fold. So, up to 2 orders of magnitude…
        
        This is likely be related to direct contamination of some batches at the point of manufacture: a paper by Speicher et al “DNA fragments detected in monovalent and bivalent Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna modRNA COVID-19 vaccines from Ontario, Canada: Exploratory dose response relationship with serious adverse events” demonstrates this in text and graphics. It’s not the only one but it is the most detailed one.
        
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        December 3, 2023 10:58am
      - KH
        
        Aaaah no Keith. Those who make the allegation need to front up with the info requested above.
        I question this happened. If there is no clear info in response then it is ridiculous to say I am the one who should dig it out.
        
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        December 3, 2023 12:55pm
    - Lee C
      
      In my experience when someone advocates for disregarding data on the basis of whether they agree with it or not, it suggests a willingness to engage in other ethically questionable activites.
      
      A “We’re your single source of truth’ type of attitude.
      
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      December 3, 2023 9:08am
      - goNZ1
        
        I had my 5th covid vax last Friday, just a little prick,and all done. Come on kiddies,harden up and stress less dears.
        
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        December 3, 2023 1:06pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        Another idiot.
        
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        December 3, 2023 4:11pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    A Govt Department will sit on info as long as they can, if one of them might get their fingers burnt.
    
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    December 3, 2023 9:25am
  - Lara
    
    Where do you get these conspiracy theories from!
    
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    December 3, 2023 4:28pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Labour website. Don’t look, please
      
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      December 3, 2023 5:46pm
  - surfing
    
    Alarmed 🙂 These delusional conspiracy theories are a constant source of amusement. My DNA hasn’t disintegrated yet, despite the many predictions made here.
    
    It was even more hilarious that quite a number of people were taking their medical advice from Donald Trump!
    
    I’m not saying conspiracy theorists are all stupid, but, certainly there is some kind of personality trait where a distrust of science and authority leads to irrational over-thinking. See substack!
    
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    December 3, 2023 5:09pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      “distrust of science”
      
      I have used robustly conducted studies to see off your vacuous, blindly pro-vax drivel on more occasions than I can count on my fingers, surfing. Do some research yourself and I might consider you a worthy debating partner. Until then you remain an embarrassment to yourself.
      
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      December 3, 2023 6:17pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Aussie media interviewing UK MP about it….
  https://youtu.be/Q0EPW2eNzd0?si=W7lB3XlYZlmWzURZ
  Shall I hold my breath waiting for NZ media to mention it?
  
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  December 3, 2023 9:17am
- Grunter
  
  I agree KrazyKiwi. Igor is well worth following and I trust him more than crazy Liz Gunn (I’m not a fan of hers, she’s a bully)
  
  This data release looks like it is doomed as not credible.
  
  Health NZ and the new Minister need to step up and regain some credibility by providing all the ‘real data’. To not do so means they are hiding something.
  
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  December 3, 2023 9:36am
  - NothingLeft
    
    I had a brief look at it and they were using higher daily death rates (anomalously spiking above 120 – something not seen at any time during 2020) in mid 2022 as evidence of a problem. Problem being that without a lot of detailed patient by patient data you can’t adequately isolate that from potential damage done by rampant 2022 Omicron in NZ.
    
    More interesting is the increased deaths during 2021 vax program when there was basically no covid or flu. That is the place where focus should be.
    
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    December 3, 2023 9:50am
    - bennerg
      
      And as UK MP Andrew Bridgen says, the dataset needs to be anonymised and released for independent analysis.
      
      Even the partial data available indicates the “possibility” of a reason for concern. That should be enough to put a pause on current vaccination, until independent oversight is complete.
      
      Sadly the MoH will have great difficulty admitting to any fault on their part, and will fight this tooth and nail.
      
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      December 3, 2023 11:17am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Igor is well worth following and I trust him more than crazy Liz Gunn (I’m not a fan of hers, she’s a bully)
    
    Another person with an over accentuated ago, that makes wild statements, and announcements of announcements. 1% tax within X days. 1M people are going to vote for me, yadda, yadda, yadda.
    
    Rhymes with 1 billion trees, (NZ has actually gone backwards), 100,000 homes, Zero child poverty, yadda, yadda, yadda.
    
    She “may” be on the right side, but then so was Corporal Klinger in Mash. You couldn’t trust them. Or go into battle alongside them, lest they did something stupid.
    
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    December 3, 2023 10:42am
  - Keith White
    
    First: “This data release looks like it is doomed as not credible.”
    
    Then: “Health NZ and the new Minister need to step up and regain some credibility by providing all the ‘real data’. To not do so means they are hiding something.”
    
    Sorry, but that is cognitive dissonance right there. You distrust the ‘data leak’ even before you get the ‘real data’?
    
    Not buying that.
    
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    December 3, 2023 6:26pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      How about this, if the data has been obtained by let’s say “unconventional” and “unofficial” methods and is being analyzed by people who are not experts in the field, then I think it’s fair to say that there is, even with the best and most honorable intentions, a higher likelihood of gaps in the data and mistakes being made than if the data was obtained and analyzed officially.
      The Ministry of Health as with all bureaucracies has its own biases and problems too, but I am operating under the assumption that they really do want to know the truth of the matter.
      I do not see a diabolical conspiracy at the heart of the Covid-vax story, mistakes of ignorance and arrogance not deliberate evil. I would also include the Chinese government in that.
      
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      December 3, 2023 6:49pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Have you seen this KK?
  https://brownstone.org/articles/new-zealand-government-data-suggests-alarming-pfizer-death-rate/
  
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  December 3, 2023 9:36am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Yes. The most compelling datapoint relates to any statistically significant variation from average mortality rates, eg 120/day in NZ.
    
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    December 3, 2023 10:23am
    - Keith White
      
      And, no explanation offered. Other than “Shut Up!”, MOH, Govt, Media and others explain.
      
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      December 3, 2023 6:27pm
emmess

The media remind me of Dr Evil on what they get upset about.

Why waste millions when you can waste …. billions?
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December 3, 2023 8:13am
SmokerGuy

The hostility towards this government by the media is next level. Right from day 1, they’ve just attacked everything. They complain about Peters saying they were bought by the previous government but they really are just playing into his hands by behaving the way they are. Scrutiny is one thing but when they are showing so much hostility when the government has barely even taken office, they really are doing their reputation huge damage.
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December 3, 2023 8:16am
BarryB

Good news from DOHA/Qatar COP jamboree
1. Qatar are using the gathering to corner new contracts for supply of oil.
2. A group of countries call for a big increase in Nuclear power.
https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/over-110-countries-set-join-cop28-deal-triple-renewable-energy-2023-12-02/#:~:text=NUCLEAR%20NUDGE,emissions%20without%20building%20new%20reactors.
Anyone who thinks the world can simply do away with fossil fuels – at least in the next 50 years – is deluded. Solar and wind fit the definition of what my father used to call – ‘a lot of hot air’ – and will never fill the definition of base load.
And one has to admire the check of the Qatar oil producers- I mean if these idiot anti oil people are stupid enough to run an anti oil conference in a place like Doha the it would be an insult not to use the occasion to promote better oil supply contracts….
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December 3, 2023 8:17am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Time NZ grew up about Nuke power and dropped its obession against it. Nuke power is the future. Rolls Royce ( not the car company owned by BMW) are developing modular Nuke power plants. They would be ideal for NZ. They dont have visual pollution like wind and solar. They last a hell of lot longer than the 25 yrs of wind and solar and unlike wind they dont kill the bird life.
  We are a such an immature little society over this issue.
  
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  December 3, 2023 9:43am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Not sure the ‘Shaky Isles’ is the right place for Nuclear.
    Personally I would prefer more Hydro but in absence of that complimenting current Hydro with Gas, Geothermal and even Waste Incineration for local supply would probably be enough.
    Judging by the financial hit Siemans has taken on its service contracts for Wind Turbines (they keep breaking) I doubt large Wind Turbines will actually lasts 25 years either.
    
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    December 3, 2023 9:51am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      Japan has nuclear and earthquakes.
      
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      December 3, 2023 10:18am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        As does Taiwan.
        
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        December 3, 2023 10:24am
      - Jack5
        
        OK, could we then be first to have a volcano externally melt-down a nuclear power plant?
        
        https://www.sciencelearn.org.nz/image_maps/42-volcano-map-of-new-zealand
        
        And:
        
        https://www.sciencelearn.org.nz/image_maps/43-auckland-volcanic-field
        
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        December 3, 2023 12:50pm
      - miltonF
        
        “Japan has nuclear and earthquakes”
        
        Yes, and it also has Fukushima.
        
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        December 3, 2023 4:31pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Go check out how many Nuclear reactors are on the St Andreas fault line, there are heaps, one of the largest earthquake prone areas there is in the world, you say Hydro, but are you suggesting that a dam can not be disturbed by an earthquake.
      
      Remember the reactor in Japan actually survived the 9 earthquake, it was the huge tsunami that damaged the cooling system of the reactor.
      
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      December 3, 2023 10:46am
      - All_on_Red
        
        And they are decommissioning them;
        ‘There are five additional nuclear power facilities in California which are in various stages of being decommissioned, and many of them continues to store nuclear fuel on sight. Four of the five were constructed in close proximity to the San Andreas fault, with only one — the Rancho Seco Nuclear Power Plant — located in an area with a near-zero chance of an earthquake.’
        https://www.nuclear.news/2019-07-10-californias-nuclear-power-plants-built-in-close-proximity-to-the-san-andreas-fault.html
        
        Japan and Taiwan don’t really have that much choice for energy sources. They have a lot of people. I see Japan was going to decommission them but instead has decided to upgrade/renew them because they need the power.
        We, fortunately, have choice.
        Would I prefer a Dam to burst and suffer localised damage compared to Radioactive fallout in the wind?
        Yes.
        You may have noticed the huge number of Cones used on the road. This overzealous approach to safety means Nuclear will never happen here.
        Geo, Gas and Waste incineration are more achievable and realistic.
        
        That said I think Nuclear Power has its place and can be safe.
        Many countries around the world are taking it up.
        In the right spot its a good option.
        
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        December 3, 2023 11:27am
      - JohnRidd
        
        And the sea wall built to protect Fukashima was shorter than it was supposed to be.
        
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        December 3, 2023 11:30am
      - Colville
        
        All on red.
        
        Do we have a choice? where can we build a dam to power Auckland without dragging all those volts up 1000Kms of lines.
        
        Making a site geotechnically stable for a reactor is childs play. Safety factor engineering is just a function of how much you can spend.
        
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        December 3, 2023 12:07pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Hi Colville
        You’re right about the transmission problem which is why I said we need to compliment Hydro with Geo, Gas and Waste incineration.
        Iirc Geo is being expanded in the Waikato?
        Shame we dont have Gas generation next to where there are sources in Taranaki (or elsewhere?) but I guess the exploration ban killed that.
        Others might have more info on that.
        Didnt they want a Waste Incinerator project at kaipara?
        
        You’re probably right about the Structural engineering solutions for a Nuclear plant but I just don’t think we need to do it.
        
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        December 3, 2023 12:49pm
      - Colville
        
        All on Red.
        
        I dont think we need to do it today I think we need to do it in 20 years.
        So we need to start talking about it today because we are slow.
        
        in 20 years NZ will be 8 Mil ppl, half of them will be in Auckland area, gas hot water will be gone and we will need nuclear very very much!
        
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        December 3, 2023 3:09pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Are these the ones that have the heat source replaced when spent, but the steam generator and condenser stay in place?
    That is the way to go.
    
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    December 3, 2023 10:10am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Yes. Plus the fuel rods are fed in from the bottom instead of the top.
      It means a mechanical release and gravity can shut down the reaction in an emergency .
      
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      December 3, 2023 10:39am
  - Terry Dalee
    
    I can’t wait for the Maori to claim they had nuclear power before the arrival of Europeans… this oughta be a hoot…
    
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    December 3, 2023 11:13am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Don’t they have some special relationship to the Sun, having slowed it down for us all?
      
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      December 3, 2023 11:44am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Maori can see nuclear, just like Greta can see CO2.
      If you can see it, you must pay for seeing.
      
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      December 3, 2023 5:49pm
- Matt Long
  
  I think the world can just do away with fossil fuels, unfortunately half the world’s population would be dead from starvation within a year and over 95% of the remaining population would be living in abject poverty.
  A small sacrifice to make for someone’s mindless ideals.
  
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  December 3, 2023 9:47am
  - nathie
    
    Good point, why don’t the activists and elites pushing this agenda go live in a fossil free/non-oil & plastic free community and happily live their lives and leave everyone else alone?
    
    What’s not to like (for them), wind and solar energy, sure summers will be great and winters will be cold but if they don’t object to sheep they can knit woolen clothing to keep warm or use natures bush and leaves like the ancestors did (but without killing animals and using their skins for clothing of course).
    
    Oh wait … they don’t actually want to walk the talk and want to tell others to do what they say but not what they do themselves? Hope none of them are flying to COP28 …
    
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    December 3, 2023 10:02am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      Flying in private jets.
      
      19 1
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      December 3, 2023 10:19am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Good point, why don’t the activists and elites pushing this agenda go live in a fossil free/non-oil & plastic free community and happily live their lives and leave everyone else alone?
      
      James Shaw already does. /////
      
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      December 3, 2023 10:34am
  - Matt Long
    
    Incidentally, the pope may not be a Catholic, but he does think mass starvation would be a good thing.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-67599985
    
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    December 3, 2023 12:53pm
    - Colinxy
      
      He was a disciple (along with Klaus Schwab of WEF fame) of Dom Helder Camara and is a follower of Catholic-Marxism as a result. His theology is known as “Liberation Theology”.
      
      For those that have not read Marcuse, “Liberation” is another word for Communism. This is yet another example of the Left sharing our language but not our dictionary.
      
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      December 3, 2023 6:08pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Yes,
        The Vatican is Control Central.
        They are the epitome of Marxism . Keep the followers dependent , barefoot and pregnant, and always have an enemy on the stage that needs defeating, and keep the money rolling in.
        
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        December 3, 2023 6:40pm
- goNZ1
  
  Yeah,next we will have Saudi Arabia hosting the World LGBTQ Congress with free alcohol afterwards
  
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  December 3, 2023 1:11pm
  - Jack5
    
    …free alcohol afterwards …
    
    Yes, right after the beheadings.
    
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    December 3, 2023 10:52pm
dcrane

More concerns about the claimed NZ vaccine dataset in the “Mother of All Reveals”, coming from competent vaccine-skeptic accounts on Twitter (X):

A post by @DrBMcDH:

Steve @ichudov was able to obtain the NZ database. He has been combing through it and has raised serious concerns with the quality of the raw data set. Red flags were first noted by @jikkyleaks
followed by others chiming in with established qualifications whom you should recognize. At first look –too much missing data and anomalies. Too many discrepancies with other data points and facts we have about NZ. No wonder the host for the data set wants no one else looking under the hood, rather just uncritical acceptance of the so-called conclusions.

@NickHudsonCT
explained having a prior opportunity to look at the NZ data and that project fizzling out because of problems–that event wasn’t disclosed to you apparently by the owner whistleblower. @USMortality thinks the data are so riddled with missing and problematic inconsistencies that it is rendered unanalyzable for purpose. @DowdEdward responded to the conversation indicating there may indeed be a scam underfoot. One aim potentially to undermine you, leaders in the movement. I suspect the focus on high rates of death purported to be associated with “vaccinator” is to shift blame from product to human error and thus muddy the waters of liability.

NZ findings don’t match those of other recognized data analyses around the world showing the mRNA C19 product harms. There has never been a robust, large effect size for “vaccinator” that couldn’t be attributed to the confound of bad lots. Just occasional egregious human error cases, but not of this magnitude. There is no concordance offered between NZ lot ID#s and formal Pfizer batch #’s so no analysis has yet been offered showing the same pattern of AEs with bad lots. Why not? That would be straightforward and the pattern and scale of harms by lot known from VAERS and well documented by Craig Paardekooper at http://howbad.info should line up closely, match like fingerprints.
…
We don’t have reports from NZ provided in a way that provides any sort of denominators. If the data set is legitimate it is poorly administered, full of holes. Perhaps due to widespread faults in monitoring and recording of events that would comprise the data set. Talk to other NZ experts on those processes.

Let’s examine the hype and drama that preceded the rollout of the “findings.” A proper well-vetted set of analyses would go through a rational serious process of being reviewed by other experts in the open before being proclaimed the “Mother of All Revelations” and presented in parliament by legislators like @ABridgen
[etc.]
Full post here:
https://twitter.com/DrBMcDH/status/1730942449319629112
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December 3, 2023 8:19am
- Keith White
  
  So, what was the cause of the excess deaths sequential to the Covid vaccine rollout but not linked in time to the increase in Covid infection?
  
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  December 3, 2023 11:00am
  - kevn
    
    Keith… This interesting. Compare your batch Pfizzer number, if the admin jabber actually gave you one of course. If so, have you still got it?
    https://howbad.info/pfizerforeigndeaths.html
    
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    December 3, 2023 11:33am
    - Keith White
      
      I got jabbed in the EU (I traveled there for work for my then-employer) only after months of being a locked-out overstayer, because without that no airline would let me buy a ticket back to NZ, even if I “won” the lottery. The country where I got jabbed did give all jabbees the decal off the vial. But, Pfizer indemnification.
      
      Our family member got jabbed in provincial NZ in a tent on hospital grounds by a retired nurse jabbing on a conveyer belt with no paperwork.
      
      Subsequent much time spent trying to get batch number for my child from hospital, MOH, Nurses’ Council, via OIA, via appeal to MP to help — zero info provided. No-one wants to help because “the vaccine is known to be safe and effective and your child’s illness was purely coincidental.” No ACC either.
      
      I’ve got minimum time left above the ground anyway haha so I’m not bothered for me, but for my family and my child’s future – oh yeah, game fully on. Saving all the $$$ I can for lawyers’ fees, why I’m doing my own research.
      
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      December 3, 2023 11:48am
      - kevn
        
        Keith… Yes, there are massive inconsistencies between batches.
        Good luck with your legal pursuit.
        
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        December 3, 2023 12:48pm
      - MCōs
        
        “ jabbing on a conveyer belt with no paperwork”
        One of my boosters was in a tent attached to the Tongan Health Society in Onehunga, also with no paperwork
        I don’t have paperwork for any vaccines I’ve received in recent times, but they’re all recorded if I want to look at the details on Manage My Health along with results for blood tests & other info going back up to ten years or so
        Paperwork is pretty much redundant
        
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        December 3, 2023 1:03pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        MCos – re. Paperwork, once I would have agreed with you.
        
        Not now.
        
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        December 3, 2023 3:45pm
  - Keith White
    
    I note that no-one on the team of “this data release is a nothingburger” is proffering an answer on why so many more than usual of our fellow citizens died.
    
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    December 3, 2023 1:03pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Keith,
      You will hear a reaction, if not an answer, when the life insurance premiums of the vaccinated become unaffordable.
      
      Your posts are very good. Keep it up, more are listening than you may realise.
      
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      December 3, 2023 6:48pm
  - dcrane
    
    Hi Keith – I think there is plenty of evidence of adverse event harm including deaths from the covid vaccines, and that all of the mRNA vaccines are much riskier than many other vaccines we use. But if there is evidence that the leaked NZ dataset is incomplete or perhaps even altered everyone should be careful about making conclusions from it or they could just ed up discredited.
    
    Imo we should direct this toward demanding that the new government release all of the anonymised data they hold and then begin their own competent analysis of the safety (or not) of the vaccine.
    
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    December 3, 2023 1:21pm
    - Keith White
      
      Thank you dcrane for your very reasoned and sensible response.
      
      FWIW – I agree, the dataset is incomplete and in my more paranoid moments 🙂 I think that incomplete release was deliberate in order to be able to discredit any and all conclusions derived from it.
      
      That said, I come back to the primary principle which is – if the Govt / MOH / NZMC & Co. are storing data which prove that the vaccination was safe, effective and not associated with increased morbidity and mortality compared to the virus, then why is this information not out there for public scrutiny?
      
      Again, given my admitted bias, I think I know why.
      
      But for everybody’s sakes it would be much better if there was actual transparency from the most transparent government ever (sorry, could not resist the snark).
      
      Anyway that difficulty with databases is why I have gone back to 1st principles, as previously mentioned on this site (and I halfway apologise to the people who are annoyed with me for being obsessed with it), in looking with the Mk I eyeball at the actual published death+funeral rates across New Zealand and correlating those with the rollout of the vaccine.
      
      I’m completely without illusions as to whether my court action will achieve anything. But when it comes to your children, sometimes you just can’t let go. That is me.
      
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      December 3, 2023 4:22pm
- goNZ1
  
  BORING
  
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  December 3, 2023 1:12pm
  - Keith White
    
    So, just scroll down.
    
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    December 3, 2023 4:23pm
- miltonF
  
  I would think it would be fairly easy to put this issue to bed.
  
  From memory the govt did this big “vax pass” thing, where you had to be vaccinated to participate in society. The govt has the data on who was vaccinated in this system. If they claim they don’t have the data, or it is inaccurate, then the whole vax pass system wouldn’t have been fit for purpose.
  
  Simply compare the mortality of the vax pass holders to the general public to see if there is a discrepancy. Seeing as the govt is so certain the vax was safe and effective, they should be clambering to release this data to confirm their science.
  
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  December 3, 2023 4:41pm
  - Keith White
    
    And yet, they will not.
    
    One has gotta ask why.
    
    Or go back to sleep.
    
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    December 3, 2023 6:28pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      They could make all of us ‘ conspiracy theorists’ look pretty stupid just by releasing to the public information about the public and owned by the public. It would take less than five minutes to compose a web page and a link to the data.
      
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      December 3, 2023 6:57pm
      - Jake Dee
        
        Not that simple. Census results are made public and statisticians and social scientists spend decades teasing out useful facts from the data.
        You can’t just download a file called “The Truth of the Matter” and that’s that. The data involved is gigantic and the dynamic forces underlying it are complex, without intelligence and technique you’ll be lost in the ocean without a boat, map or compass.
        
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        December 3, 2023 7:12pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Jake,
        
        I think we will manage. Thanks for your concern.
        
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        December 4, 2023 7:16am
- artemisia
  
  There is a great deal of interest in NZ covid data, here but also more widely, due to a particular set of circs – vax delay, surrounded by sea, borders closed, mandates and lockdowns.
  
  A huge amount of time and money was spent tracking who, what, and where – critical data due to the massive impacts of the decisions made. If MoH wants to restrict access to the anonymised data they need to front up with the reason/s. Sounds like either they know the data is dodgy or they know the vax was not actually safe and effective – still saying it is today though. So dodgy data? If so, why?
  
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  December 3, 2023 7:20pm
BarryB

The truth is starting to emerge re Israel and HAMAS. The original story about the Oct 7 HAMAS attack was ‘how could the Israel security people have missed this?’ I didn’t believe that for one second.
Its now emerged that the Israel security people knew about the HAMAS plans a year ago – but that the security chiefs and/or the political leaders didn’t believe it because they didn’t think Hamas had the ability to mount such attack.
https://apnews.com/article/new-york-times-hamas-attack-israel-gaza-6088cad78f5e4153d671fe9b5b819308
And I don’t believe that for one second either.
Even with Hamas attacking on Oct 7 the political reaction around the world is very anti Israel – just imagine what the reaction would have been if Israel went into Gaza before Oct 7.
Its of serious concern that we have people like Swarbrick (and millions around the world) chanting ‘From the river to the sea’ (ie: eliminate the state of Israel and everyone in it).. There is something very wrong with this apparent self destruction wish in western society. I fear that nothing good will come from it………
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December 3, 2023 8:21am
- dcrane
  
  Resonates with 9/11.
  Look the other way deliberately, at the right time.
  Then use the attack as a justification for massive, disproportionate “repsonse” intending to radically alter the playing field.
  
  I’m an American originally and I want my country out of that conflict entirely. If Israel wants to ethnically cleanse Gaza it shouldn’t be on our dollar or with our weapons.
  
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  December 3, 2023 9:56am
  - Burtland
    
    so Israeli planned it all and the US planned 9/11 ?
    and nobody walked on the moon …
    
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    December 3, 2023 10:59am
    - Che Guava
      
      It’s common to bring up irrelevant false equivalencies to “rebut” perfectly plausible propositions.
      
      For instance “You think all was not as it seems with Covid? I suppose you think Elvis is still alive too.” Completely unrelated, but the intention of the doubter is obvious: no conspiracy theories are valid, because some aren’t. That’s illogical.
      
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      December 3, 2023 11:20am
    - goNZ1
      
      Dead right. Actually I bumped into Bob Marley in the Vape store recently, he looked a bit older.I wept and he sung me No Women No Cry
      
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      December 3, 2023 1:17pm
    - dcrane
      
      The article suggests Hamas did the planning. All Israel had to do was leave their guard down. Same for 9/11, although there’s an unfortunate amount of evidence that the American CIA was more than just aware of the plans for 9/11
      
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      December 3, 2023 1:23pm
  - Che Guava
    
    Exactly. Israel has used the US military to do its dirty work for at least the last 20 years, be it Iraq, Syria, Libya, Sudan and elseshere.
    
    The claim is often made that Israel is used by the US as a forward base for its interests in the Middle East. However, it’s obviously the other way around. The tail very much wags the the dog in that relationship. Without the US’s resources, Israel would be completely unsustainable. This is why pro-Israel PR in America is so crucial (“greatest ally” and all that).
    
    The US doesn’t have any real direct interests in the Middle East except in the sense that it is used by Israel to enforce its will on the region. At the moment, you’ve got the US Navy parked in the region as a guarantee for Israel’s ethnic cleansing in Gaza, deterring intervention from Israel’s enemies.
    
    As a consequence, the Middle East sees the US/Israel as the same thing, thereby endangering Americans due to the liability Israel creates for them. The “Israel is our closest ally” is a complete inversion of reality and is just rhetoric used to justify the US acting in ways that are otherwise completely irrational and that run counter to its interests.
    
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    December 3, 2023 11:06am
- Che Guava
  
  It may seem counter-intuitive, but, at least in the short to medium term, Oct 7 benefitted Israel much more than it did Hamas. It’s not at all uncontroversial to say that Israel has always wanted the Palestinians out of Gaza and to annex the same, and that is exactly what they are on course to achieving. The pretext is the purportedly “surprise” attack by Hamas. We now know what many suspected, which is that Mossad knew about the plans for a long while before hand.
  
  It takes a certain kind of ruthless psychopath to be a politician at a high level, and so it’s completely conceivable that the Netanyahu government along with Mossad let the attack happen, despite the casualties, because of their overriding strategic goals.
  
  What are so often dismissed as “failures of intelligence” are, as shown in these latest revelations, a deliberate failure to act in order to reap the benefits.
  
  An interesting and salient passage from the article is this:
  
  “The failures to connect the dots echoed another analytical failure more than two decades ago, when the American authorities also had multiple indications that the terrorist group Al Qaeda was preparing an assault. The Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were largely a failure of analysis and imagination, a government commission concluded.”
  
  [Mod – please don’t use links that bypass paywalls]
  
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  December 3, 2023 10:46am
  - Burtland
    
    so with hindsight it was all a conspiracy – Hamas slaughter, 9/11, landing on the moon, Biden election, covid … anything else?
    
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    December 3, 2023 11:05am
    - Che Guava
      
      That’s just silly Burt. Do better. See my reply to your comment above. You simply doubting that X is possible isn’t a rebuttal or a counter to X.
      
      And are you seriously suggesting that, at the very least and for the reasons I give, Israel has not strategically benefitted greatly from Oct 7?
      
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      December 3, 2023 11:25am
  - dcrane
    
    This Corbett Report video documents in great detail the evidence for some form of CIA involvement in 9/11.
    https://www.corbettreport.com/alqaeda/
    
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    December 3, 2023 3:10pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    The pro Israeli rhetoric is reminiscent of the early covid rhetoric . Instead of accusations of supporting killing granny the accusation is of supporting killing Israeli
    babies.
    The reformed covidians now have a healthy distrust of the media , except when the same media tells them to support Israel .
    Strange how some can spot when the media are telling the truth or are lying.
    History! will be their reason for their reasoning.
    Gullibility ! is the real reason.
    
    Bitter sweet Kissinger dying.
    Bitter that it wasn’t a long long time ago.
    
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    December 3, 2023 7:13pm
Im Right

I had a conversation with a leftie leaning mate just after the election, I happened to mention the Covid enquiry will be expanded in scope, which I thought was a good idea (my thinking was, if there is to be one, best it be done thoroughly), he disagreed and said it would be a witch hunt by the right and it was all in the past anyhow and who cares….he then went on about ‘anti-vaxxers’ and it’s just a witch hunt against Bloomfield and Ardern/Hipkins.
Soooo I gather from his point of view, and he IS left leaning, it’s what we can expect from the opposition….’nothing to see, it’s all ancient history now and let’s just forget about it all and move on’
Interesting!…..
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December 3, 2023 8:32am
- dcrane
  
  I fear I would be gravely disappointed if I could look into the minds of the Kiwis around me and see how many still approve of the idea of forced lockdowns, coerced vaccinations/masking, and speech suppression anytime the WHO declares a scary pandemic.
  
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  December 3, 2023 10:00am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Dcrane
    
    80 percent would willingly drop their pants and bend over.
    
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    December 3, 2023 10:45am
- Grunter
  
  The Leftards will get their rude awakening the next time they try this siht. It won’t be 10% of Kiwis being a “deplorable river of filth” – it will be a majority of us saying “GFY” !!
  
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  December 3, 2023 10:49am
- mandk
  
  The appropriate response to people who say “nothing to see” is: “ok, you won’t mind me having a look, then.”
  
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  December 3, 2023 1:43pm
Scooter

Was it the COVID virus Tory had or just Caught Out in a Video Inflagrante Drunk.
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December 3, 2023 8:36am
- KH
  
  We all just found out the cause of Covid. It’s Chardonnay. Who knew.
  
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  December 3, 2023 9:44am
  - Keith White
    
    You mean it’s not Bud Light? I’m shocked.
    
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    December 3, 2023 4:17pm
igm

Good God, are our new government going to stop these bullshit sentences?
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/dunedin-rugby-player-attacked-woman-in-city-park/
Just a joke!
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December 3, 2023 8:47am
Maggy Wassilieff

Oh Dear..

David Seymour faces being excommunicated/expelled/ deracinated(?) from his tribal background

https://www.teaonews.co.nz/2023/12/01/hapu-breaks-silence-on-david-seymour-dont-claim-you-are-ngati-rehia-if-you-want-to-tutu-with-the-treaty/
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December 3, 2023 8:50am
- CJames
  
  If they can deny bloodlines, it will destroy their argument about why they should be considered a special people – at least in a rational world.
  
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  December 3, 2023 8:54am
  - artemisia
    
    Have to wonder if the iwi spox stopped to think about the world outside their echo chamber of entitlement and arrogance.
    
    Seems not.
    
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    December 3, 2023 11:48am
- Cassandra
  
  Lucky old David. If my family behaved like that I wouldn’t go near them.
  
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  December 3, 2023 8:55am
- KH
  
  I’m fine with it Maggy.
  It establishes the idea there are no Maori at all in New Zealand. Might have been a few left in 1923, but that was then.
  
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  December 3, 2023 8:56am
- artemisia
  
  A very slippery slope, Maggy. Today a politician, tomorrow an ordinary person with similar views.
  
  And BTW, that could be me.
  
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  December 3, 2023 9:20am
- nathie
  
  His tribal spokesman uses the phrases “equity and equality” …. the usual signs of ‘far-left desperation’ to slew any arguments by using emotion instead of facts?
  
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  December 3, 2023 9:27am
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Are these the people who want to be our co-governors? Yeah, nah, no thanks.
  
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  December 3, 2023 9:42am
- Jethrod
  
  What an “inconvenient truth” Ngati Rehia is facing. It must be nice to think that you can disenfranchise on of your followers, however far apart from your ideology they are. David Seymour is attempting to drag this tribe into the reality of the present.
  
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  December 3, 2023 10:45am
- JackRabbit
  
  His response should be “well I dodged a bullet there.” Being tossed out of a criminal band of cohorts is a positive.
  
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  December 3, 2023 10:51am
- Im Right
  
  Haaa true Maggy
  Have you noticed how many tribal affiliations/Hapu listed after a person’s name when they have done good (TV and Print media), but absolutely none…zip..nada when they have done something wrong/bad?!
  Check it out next time, any Iwi/tribe affiliations are missing after their name, if the maori in question has been caught doing something illegal.
  
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  December 3, 2023 11:43am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yes..
    
    I’m wondering if I should list all my lineages each time I post..
    
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    December 3, 2023 1:42pm
- NothingLeft
  
  So David’s not racist enough to be in their tribe?
  
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  December 3, 2023 11:55am
- rouppe
  
  Been done before…
  
  https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-nuremberg-race-laws
  
  I keep saying it. The Maori Party, in particular, are acting exactly like fascists.
  
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  December 3, 2023 1:17pm
- Michael Sommerville
  
  So much for “whanau”.
  
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  December 3, 2023 1:25pm
mikenmildagain

Today is the International Day of Persons with Disabilities. So I trust all with disabilities will enjoy the special day.
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December 3, 2023 8:51am
- Cassandra
  
  Not the aim of the day, mike, it’s to focus attention on our challenges rather than to have a fun day. Most people with disabilities struggle. But by all means have your little joke. Do enjoy your next Mental Health Day.
  
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  December 3, 2023 8:58am
  - JackRabbit
    
    That will be tomorrow and every other day of the year.
    
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    December 3, 2023 10:52am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Are you allowed to identify as someone with a disability?
  
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  December 3, 2023 9:42am
- Keith White
  
  Even worse than your usual mma. In my view a day like this is to help us all appreciate how we could help a disabled person when next we encounter them and are in a position to help.
  
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  December 3, 2023 11:17am
- goNZ1
  
  You leave out that a Higher Being is using USA and the West to ensure Israel’s survival.The Ishmaelites , Amalekites and Muslim hordes over the ages may have succeeded in the past ages but now we are coming up to the time of Psalms 2:4 NKJV
  “He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; The Lord shall hold them in derision.”
  
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  December 3, 2023 1:30pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    “When a man’s ways please the Lord, he makes even his enemies to be at peace with him.”
    Proverbs 16:7
    
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    December 3, 2023 4:42pm
Lee C

Meanwhile in America;
https://youtu.be/EcgocBJ3QJM
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December 3, 2023 9:01am
Sparrow

I see Heather of IZB is toeing the party line. Has an article in the Herald behind a paywall. From the little I can read she is having a go at Winston. How strange these so called defenders of democracy and right leaning like her and Hoskins have to bow to who pays their inflated salaries NZME the owner of the Herald who took the governments silver. The media has circled the wagons and is bringing in every so called celebrity to defend the indefensible. We do not have a free press in NZ and I would argue anywhere in the world its either controlled by governments or vested interests which can be easily bribed. Happy days. Form your own opinions and keep fighting for them. F…the bastards.
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December 3, 2023 9:07am
- nathie
  
  Yes she is having a go at Winston and because his outbursts and policies (smokefree/govt dept english/maori names) had to be defended by Luxon, i.e. Winston upstaged Luxon (and Willis) and Nat policies. But to be fair she also notes the MSM are fixated on Winston and also gives them a serve:
  
  This brings us to the media. The media are almost certainly more outraged than the public are over all of the above, even the aforementioned policies, but especially over the Attacks On The Media.The media should remember that hardly anyone really actually likes the media anymore. That automatically makes Winston a hero to some and kind of fun to many when he attacks the media.Judging by the media outrage over his attacks, it’s quite apparent many have not registered generally how unpopular we are and specifically how much unease there is about the $55m journalism fund he’s calling a bribe.
  
  That may be so but let’s not forget the MSM (including the likes of HDPA and Hosking) gave Winston valuable free airtime by slagging him in the last few months leading up to the election and hey-presto that oxygen helped contribute to his popularity (seems the NZ MSM hasn’t learned the lesson of the USA MSM in 2016 whereby constant slagging gives those they despise free oxygen).
  
  But at least HDPA kinda ends on a “positive note” though:
  
  The good news for everyone is the fun of the first week probably won’t be sustained. Winston will burn through his energy and then go overseas, Luxon will learn ways to handle Winston and his problems and the media will get over the initial outrage of having Winston back.
  
  Fully agree, soon things will get back to normal again politically/reporting wise forcing the MSM to close down their pantomime performance shows.
  
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  December 3, 2023 9:50am
  - gravedodger
    
    The olde Wilde Oscare adage strikes again nathie?
    
    “There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.”
    
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    December 3, 2023 2:23pm
- Notsofast
  
  Heather also says:
  
  Much worse for Luxon is having to defend Winston’s silly policies. The smoke-free law repeal, the plan to force government departments to switch the priority of their Māori and English names, and the policies around trans communities. All these policies are controversial and all these policies are Winston’s ideas.
  
  Is she not aware of the Talbot Mills poll that identifies female spaces and sport as the highest priority for the people?
  I am surprised, until this embarrassing tirade I thought she was one of the grownups in the media.
  The Maori names policy is now a democratic choice too, but media despise the proletariat.
  
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  December 3, 2023 11:33am
  - MCōs
    
    Are you referring to this Talbot Mills poll?
    https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/11/03/race-relations-among-most-divisive-issues-in-election-poll/
    Of those listed he issue with the most support/opposition is the gun register followed by masks during the covid epidemic and then trans women in support
    
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    December 3, 2023 2:58pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Willie Jackson muddying the water about He Puapua and the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People

https://waateanews.com/2023/12/01/he-puapua-already-dead-says-jackson/

If He Puapua was a dead duck 2-3 years ago, why was Jackson still taking the matter to Cabinet last year?
https://newsroom.co.nz/2022/12/08/co-governance-work-put-on-ice/
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December 3, 2023 9:13am
- Nickc2
  
  It’s still on Labour’s TO-DO List. Hipkins Didn’t kick it into touch.
  
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  December 3, 2023 10:04am
  - Jethrod
    
    Well that right there will condemn them to an extra 3 long years.
    
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    December 3, 2023 10:47am
- Grumpy Silver Haired Female
  
  In what world view are Maori indigenous? We are all immigrants.
  
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  December 3, 2023 6:29pm
nathie

Is the reason why the MSM publish “extremist” viewpoints by both radical/far-left Maori/Pakeha attacking the Nat/ACT/NZF coalition on Treaty issues, and without any balanced analysis, because the MSM are beholden to the PIJF & NZ On Air funding guidlelines? Such as:

· “Māori have never ceded sovereignty to Britain or any other state.”

· “…our society has a foundation of institutional racism.”

· “For news media, it is not simply a matter of reporting ‘fairly’, but of constructively contributing to Te Tiriti relations and social justice.”

· “Repeated references by the government to the English version [of the Treaty], in which Māori supposedly ceded sovereignty, have created systematic disinformation that protects the government’s assumption of sole parliamentary sovereignty.”

A fantastic write up on the issue by Graham Adams on how the MSM is failing in its role to present balanced viewpoints. Newshub, The Spinoff and far-left commentator Dita De Boni get a special shout out for their ignorance and acquiescence.

Oddly enough Labour (Hipkins/Jackson), late to the party and conscious of public perception, seem to want to distance themselves from the same PIJF/NZ On Air guidelines that they endorsed when in Govt – you couldn’t make this up and funny how the MSM/activists don’t criticise Labour for their backflip.

https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/when-is-a-bribe-not-a-bribe

Finally another Graham Adams article, it is hilarious as it exposes the ignorance of the likes of John Campbell, Kim Hill and TVNZ’s reporters. These MSM “elite” have disregarded people’s opposition against Labour’s “co-governance” agenda for years, and now when it is being rolled back are at a complete gormless airheaded loss as to why and what the heck is going on. Perhaps they need to be sacked for failing in their primary role, their “one and only job” (just kidding but why do we pay these divisive fools to mis/dis-inform the public)?

On Saturday, RNZ’s Kim Hill quizzed Māori journalist Annabelle Lee-Mather on the bill and the idea of a referendum. Hill began the interview by admitting she wasn’t “sure what this means” and neither seemed to even know what a referendum would likely ask, with Mather claiming its details hadn’t been “specifically spelled out”.

The pair were stupendously ill informed about information that has been in the public domain for more than a year. In March last year, Seymour announced that Act was intending for the next government to “pass legislation defining the Principles of the Treaty, in particularly their effect on democratic institutions. Then ask the people to vote on it becoming law.”

https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/media-knives-flashing-for-luxons-government
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December 3, 2023 9:15am
- imalwaysright
  
  The treaty must surely be a factor for overseas investors considering doing business here.
  Why would they risk their money in a jurisdiction where enforcement of the law is subject to the vagaries of racial interests .
  
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  December 3, 2023 10:54am
- Swifty
  
  How absolutely damning.
  
  These journalists appear either unwilling or incapable of performing the most basic of journalistic functions – that of looking at issues from both/all sides.
  
  They just wouldn’t know the arguments of one side, nor the relative strengths and weaknesses of those arguments – because they just haven’t taken the time and effort to look for or at them.
  
  Honestly, I am absolutely stunned that they would admit to this.
  
  They’re not journalists, fearlessly investigating societal issues on our behalf – they’re paid propagandists who reliably present only one side of these major issues without even the slightest curiosity about conflicting views or positions.
  
  I’m just stunned.
  
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  December 3, 2023 10:54am
- JackRabbit
  
  “Māori have never ceded sovereignty to Britain or any other state.”
  
  There is the Letter of the Law, and the Spirit of the Law. Or in this case the Treaty.
  
  It is clear from all records from the time, that both the Letter of the Treaty (words) and the Spirit in which it was signed, was that Maori ceded Sovereignty to the Queen.
  
  Unless said Treaty Activists can produce a Tardis and take us back in time to when the Treaty was signed, and the months leading up to it, their fanciful “viewpoint” of history has to be discarded and ignored as the babbling of the mentally insane.
  
  The arrogance of suggesting you know what really happened 183 years ago, which is contrary to not only the Treaty, but contrary to all records of meeting and discussions prior to signing, suggests a possible valid case for internment in a mental hospital.
  
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  December 3, 2023 11:01am
- Swifty
  
  P.S. A really good post nathie, many thanks.
  
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  December 3, 2023 11:05am
- Swifty
  
  I wonder if we could get to the bottom of exactly who put those conditions in and why?
  
  Exactly what was the process? Who conceived them and who authorised their inclusion and for what reasons?
  
  Is this something we are entitled to know?
  
  You know, to be open and transparent?
  
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  December 3, 2023 11:30am
- thirteenstars
  
  Ignorance of the referendum and what it entails is not confined to the media. I’ve seen a few here, coalition supporters, make similar objections.
  
  Theirs feigned ignorance and then there’s wilful ignorance.
  
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  December 3, 2023 11:34am
- Sacha
  
  ‘Annabelle Lee-Mather’
  She may ‘identify’ as Maori, but that name doesn’t convince me.
  There’s a lack of credibility right there.
  Just saying.
  
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  December 3, 2023 12:03pm
oldpark

Leaders are privately siding with Israel against Hamas, even if some are publicly condemning the operation in Gaza as endangering innocent civilians who refuse to leave or are being forced to stay, Haaretz reported this week.

Arab leaders know they could be next are ultimately viewing Hamas as a “dangerous domestic enemy” on their lands, so they are urging Israel to keep fighting in Gaza after the operation to return hostages taken by Hamas on Oct. 7, according to the report.

“Publicly, some of them [like Egypt and Jordan] are falling in line with public opinion in their countries and condemning the civilian deaths caused by Israel’s military response,” Haaretz’s Amos Harrel wrote in his analysis of the expiring cease-fire Thursday.

“But behind the scenes, almost every leader in the region, including in most of the Gulf states, is urging Israel to end the war only after Hamas is defeated, since they view the organization as a dangerous domestic enemy.”

The problem that looms, as Israeli Defense Forces spokespeople have told Newsmax, is Hamas is hiding among civilians, including moving south from northern Gaza. Israel will have to go into southern Gaza, which is more densely populated and already has displaced civilians that were forced to move out of the north amid the operations there.

Hamas uses civilians as human shields, in particular in hospitals and places where children are, the IDF has long warned.

Israel pounded targets in the crowded southern half of the Gaza Strip on Saturday and ordered more neighborhoods designated for attack to evacuate, driving up the death toll even as the United States and others urged it to do more to protect Gaza civilians a day after a truce collapsed.

The military said Saturday that it hit more than 400 Hamas targets across Gaza over the past day, using airstrikes and shelling from tanks and navy gunships. It included more than 50 strikes in the city of Khan Younis and surrounding areas in the southern half of Gaza.

In the clearest sign yet that a return to negotiations for further truces was unlikely, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu directed negotiators to return to Israel.

With the resumption of fighting, the Israeli military published an online map carving up the Gaza Strip into hundreds of numbered parcels and asked residents to familiarize themselves with the number of their location ahead of evacuation warnings.

The military used the map for the first time Saturday, listing more than two dozen parcel numbers in areas around Gaza City in the north and east of Khan Younis. Separately, the military dropped leaflets with evacuation orders over towns east of Khan Younis.

For families of remaining hostages, the truce’s collapse was a blow to hopes their loved ones could be the next out. A 70-year-old woman held by Hamas was declared dead on Saturday, according to her kibbutz, bringing the total number of known dead hostages to eight.
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December 3, 2023 9:37am
- All_on_Red
  
  ‘Children were branded in case they escaped, according to Yaniv Yaakov, the uncle of the brothers Or, 16, and Yagil, 12, who were freed on Nov. 27.
  
  “Every child that Hamas took was taken on a motorcycle, and they took each child and put their leg in front of the exhaust pipe, which caused a burn to mark the children so that in case they ran away or fled, they could find them,” he said.’
  https://hotair.com/karen-townsend/2023/12/01/hamas-branded-children-beat-jews-with-electric-cables-and-kept-israeli-women-in-cages-n595963
  
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  December 3, 2023 10:05am
  - KH
    
    Another reading from your list of dodgy sites there Red.
    
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    December 3, 2023 3:08pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      Dont be a moron
      Plenty of evidence from the captives
      Plus ‘This claim is not the first of its kind: In the days immediately following the October 7 attacks, videos from Hamas’s Telegram channel showed child hostages being kept in cages for the majority of their time in captivity.’
      Hamas themselves showed it
      
      I guess your arse is still burning from being exposed at following Russian propaganda sites
      
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      December 3, 2023 4:06pm
      - Che Guava
        
        The people most susceptible to propaganda are those, like you, who sincerely think that it is always and only someone else who puts out and/or consumes propaganda, while the sources they themselves base their opinions on are propaganda-free and unbiased tellers of truth. Once you realise that everyone puts out propaganda as a matter of course, then you are much better placed to form a true picture of reality. Until then, you’ll probably defend things like the ethnic cleansing of Gaza while being convinced that you hold the moral high ground.
        
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        December 3, 2023 4:37pm
      - KH
        
        Why do you refuse to list the sites you follow Red. Why hide? Embarrassing ?
        
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        December 3, 2023 4:53pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        I gather information from lots of sources.
        I often provide citations.
        So perhaps you could stop telling lies about my ‘sources’.
        I note neither you nor Che provide Citations whereas I do. So Pot Kettle Black
        In that link (Hot air are an Aggregator- if you know what that means)
        In that link there is information from
        Jewish Press
        J Post
        Witness reports from two of the childrens Uncle
        Report from a Thai Hostage
        CNN
        Red Cross Hostage people
        Hamas Telegram account
        And there is also reporting in NY Post and other publications.
        Both you and Che have been exposed as having very anti semite leanings and very very biased.
        
        As I said dont be a moron- but that seems to be difficult for you
        As for Che, well he clearly has some ‘issues’ with his ethnic cleansing and genocide rubbish.
        Nutter of the year I reckon
        
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        December 3, 2023 5:40pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        The trend which seems to be emerging is you sneak back and drop a smearing comment which has no foundation in fact.
        Probably trying to discredit my post.
        Both of you have cast doubt on the extent of what happened on Oct 7
        I guess you’d deny the Holocaust too- Jew haters that you both clearly are.
        Still, I’m glad you are both here.
        We get to see who and what you are.
        
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        December 3, 2023 6:00pm
      - Che Guava
        
        All_on_Red
        The main thing I note about you is that you tend to get all worked up about this issue and constantly resort to questioning the moral character and attributing nefarious motivations to anyone who isn’t onboard with Israel, rather than engaging on the basis of rational argument. While this kind of emotivism isn’t anything we haven’t seen before when it comes to Israel and the Palestine issue, it does you and your position little credit.
        
        We get it: you think I’m a bad person. Let’s take that as read then shall we, and move on to making mature arguments. If I’m any “kind of person,” it’s the kind of person who likes to think for himself and make his own judgments, regardless of what the herd thinks.
        
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        December 3, 2023 6:31pm
      - Che Guava
        
        “I note neither you nor Che provide Citations whereas I do”
        
        Well, that’s just false. Feel free to look at my commenting history. If I need to cite a fact that forms or supports part of my argument, then I do so. For instance, information as to “who” where” or “what” and the like. However, some people like to cite the opinions or arguments of others as if they were their own, which is pretty silly really.
        
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        December 3, 2023 6:41pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Im not worked up at all.
        You saying that is just a smear and perhaps you misinterpret a perfunctory style
        
        And you never provide Citations Che
        Not one link to back up what you say in the, what 15+ Posts you make every day?
        And accusing me of bias is hilarious. I am well aware of some of the awful behaviour by Israeli settlers. And also by the US. Look at what Clinton did to Libya.
        But you dont even acknowledge anything Hamas does.
        Indeed you question if any of it even happened.
        Then there is comments like this from you;
        “The people most susceptible to propaganda are those, like you”
        Your hypocrisy is stunning
        
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        December 3, 2023 6:56pm
  - KH
    
    Good marks Red. Some of your list listed. Keep it up.
    What does offend me is you assign beliefs to people here, not just me, which does not come from anything we said.
    I don’t think you misrepresent deliberately,more like you just get triggered.
    Coupled with a bunch of abusive words.
    Suggest you rethink your words.
    
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    December 3, 2023 6:56pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      If you had looked at the link you would have seen all of that.
      But you dont look do you…
      You are the one who gets triggered because you are the one displaying stalking behaviour.
      And your ‘beliefs’ are clear to all of us.
      By your own words we shall know you.
      Keep it up.
      Its both sad and funny.
      
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      December 3, 2023 7:07pm
- Che Guava
  
  I’m not buying IDF claims that all, or most, of the women and children they have murdered were the result of being used as “human shields” by Hamas. It seems like a convenient excuse for indiscriminate killing of the “less than human” Gazans.
  
  For starters, because the IDF are the ones doing all the killing, it would be stupid to take their word for the circumstances surrounding the killing. It’s all too convenient really.
  
  Second, imagine a scene like the Lindt Cafe hostage siege in Sydney some years ago: would the public have accepted the authorities charging in there and shooting the place up, killing most of the hostages as well as the perpetrator, and then justifying it on the ground that they were being used as “human shields”? Clearly, there’d be self-interest going on there.
  
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  December 3, 2023 11:43am
  - gravedodger
    
    My understanding Che, has Hamas possibly involved in an odd human killing in Gaza and adjacent Israel occupied lands, hard to know for sure though?
    
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    December 3, 2023 2:29pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    It’s interesting that you mentioned the Lindt cafe siege. The police there did kill a hostage, inadvertently of course and the gun man really was using her as a human shield.
    The result was a very long series of coronial inquiries about exactly who did what, when and why, every bullet was tracked with scientific detail, the usual fine-toothed comb procedure of British common law at work.
    The Israelis will never be held to these standards. Are they a special case? Perhaps they are but everyone thinks they and theirs are a special case and we still have to know exactly what the rules are and who decides.
    As my good buddy V Putin said when talking about the fantastical Rules Based International Order,
    “What are these rules? Has anybody seen them?
    Personally, I think the time of Israel being an exception to the rules is rapidly running out.
    
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    December 3, 2023 5:13pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    ‘I’m not buying IDF claims that all…etc’
    Of course you don’t, but you believe Hamas implicitly and without question
    
    hahahahahahahahahahahahaahaha
    
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    December 3, 2023 6:02pm
Yvette

Maori language in government entity names and road signage

Example 1
Mana whenua: Te Rūnanga o Ngāti Waewae (Ngāi Tahu) have gifted the agency the Te Reo Māori name Te Kahui Whakamana Rua Tekau ma Iwa, which can be shortened to Te Kahui Whakamana 29. It is interpreted as ‘The Empowering Voice for the Pike 29’. Ngāti Waewae are kaitiaki of Pike River in the Atarau region.

Google Translate currently renders the gifted name as “The Twenty-Nineth Empowerment Group”.
Back when the agency was first established the Google translation was more bizarre.

Eample 2
Our name Taumata Arowai was gifted to us by Hon Nanaia Mahuta, the previous Minister of Local Government.
The name creates an identity for Taumata Arowai. Taumata is used to refer to a summit or gathering of people coming together around an important area of focus. This speaks to the importance of our kaupapa, the bringing together of people to reach a shared goal, and the weight and responsibility to our role as a regulator.
Taumata for us also conveys a high point in the landscape, a peak or stepping stone to a higher place. This speaks to our ambitions for the water services sector improving, over time, with our support, influence, accountability, leadership and protection.
Arowai speaks to the attention to be in the presence of wai. It conveys our focus on wai as a taonga, and our focus to put wai mauri, wai mana and wai ora at the centre of everything we do.
https://www.taumataarowai.govt.nz/about/who-we-are/

Google Translate: Taumata Arowai – Chemical Level

1 – How many Government agency Maori names are “gifted” and the meaning also “gifted” so that the nuanced name does not translate directly as to be fully understood by even someone fluent in Maori?
One convention to identify or alert viewers to a “gifted” name would be to insert an asterisk straight after it – like the current use of macrons to identify lengthened vowels– but that would possibly fuck to much with our collective heads to ever be introduced.

2 – Why is the Maori name placed first and the more commonly understood English put second, whereas the former should perhaps be latter and distinguished by a lesser size, weight and different colour of typeface? – particularly on road signage that has a safety function, that should take priority rather than a te reo lesson at 50 to 100 kph.
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December 3, 2023 9:43am
- cmm
  
  I am not sure of how it works, but I suspect that when a name is “gifted”, then:
  * It would be deemed insulting to turn it down or negotiate a different name.
  * We’re supposed to be grateful for the change.
  * Quite likely a reciprocal gift is expected. In the form of $.
  
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  December 3, 2023 10:10am
  - lifesgood
    
    That’s dumb, Europeans have gifted heaps of names around this country, so why aren’t they respected? I thought it was rude to throw a gift back in someone’s face.
    
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    December 3, 2023 2:32pm
- BeaB
  
  And the names seem to becoming impossibly lengthy.
  They are rarely less banal that English names. Hamilton is now being referred to as Kirikiriroa which means gravel pits. So inspiring. I’d much prefer Waikato City or even Tainui. Hamilton was always a meaningless name but then so is gravel pit.
  
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  December 3, 2023 10:34am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Nothing meaningless about gravel BeaB!
    Wouldn’t be without it here.
    Very useful for a variety of uses – especially for filling in potholes on the roads.
    Yours,
    Kirikirihuarahi
    
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    December 3, 2023 11:59am
  - rouppe
    
    It’s getting to the point where names are akin to “The place where Hone farted voluminously”.
    
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    December 3, 2023 1:27pm
    - Keith White
      
      Yeah, moa-meat was pretty indigestible – and long-pig cutlets even worse for the indigenous intestinal flora.
      
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      December 3, 2023 4:15pm
  - JohnRidd
    
    I am quite happy with “Hamilton”
    In the 19th century a group of British settlers founded a settlement that they named Hamilton.
    
    They did not take over and rename a Maori village called Kirikiriroa. There is no reason to change the name.
    
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    December 3, 2023 3:45pm
- CJames
  
  The “gifting” invariably involves a whole lot of koha. That doesn’t really make it a gift at all does it? Or maybe the term was mis-spelt and should have been grifting.
  Waikato don’t seem to use macrons, they prefer double letters. That is the owners’ marae at Ohaaki Power Station site is called Ohaki.
  
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  December 3, 2023 10:37am
Ghost

One of the best Christmas ads I’ve seen

A Holiday to Remember | Chevrolet
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December 3, 2023 9:46am
- All_on_Red
  
  Wonderful
  
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  December 3, 2023 10:01am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  What sort of prick would downtick that ffs?
  Dementia is hard for everyone to deal with. I was the only one my partner’s Father recognised in the end.
  Thanks for the memory.
  
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  December 3, 2023 10:01am
  - BeaB
    
    It is a beautiful ad but unrealistic ad as, sadly, any unlikely breakthrough like this will be fleeting.
    Movie makers love a fairy story and that’s what this is. It wrings a tear but ignores the awful daily grind of dementia in a loved one who has irretrievably lost most of their important memories.
    
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    December 3, 2023 10:31am
    - Jethrod
      
      The reality if most ads is that they area little bit of make-believe sprinkled with fairydust.
      
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      December 3, 2023 10:51am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Well it certainly got your attention.
      Old Chev car, old Woman – just need some attention, that is the message I got.
      I don’t think this will increase GM Chev sales.
      
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      December 3, 2023 1:38pm
    - Ghost
      
      This as was made in partnership with the Alzheimer’s Association. General Motors have long relationship with the Alzheimer’s Association, from donating money, to funding events that the Alzheimer’s Association hold. The development of technology that helps those with Alzheimer’s and their caregivers.
      
      It’s not telling a story of a breakthrough, it’s telling the story that many people experiences with their loved ones, those moments they aware, those moments to treasure, the memories.
      
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      December 3, 2023 5:46pm
  - Nukuleka
    
    Beautiful. A real tear- jerker.
    
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    December 3, 2023 10:35am
- Keith White
  
  I had something in my eyes watching that last night. Really well written, acted, and strikes a really good note for the time of year and the season when we get together and meet who’s left and remember what’s past and reacquaint ourselves with the younger generation who will carry the future forward.
  
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  December 3, 2023 11:23am
- Burtland
  
  wow – using dementia to sell cars
  
  you left off the real point of the ad
  
  Learn more about Chevy here: https://www.chevrolet.com/
  To find your local dealer: http://www.chevrolet.com/dealer-locator
  See current offers: http://www.chevrolet.com/current-deals
  
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  December 3, 2023 11:38am
  - Ghost
    
    You actually missed the real point of the ad, and the ad was made in partnership with the Alzheimer’s Association.
    
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    December 3, 2023 11:56am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Sad man.
    
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    December 3, 2023 1:39pm
    - Burtland
      
      this is the same manipulative BS that Cindy used to put a spell on the nation
      
      ” just the little one today” is another example https://youtu.be/nupwPgtxKB4
      
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      December 3, 2023 5:56pm
- Sacha
  
  It’s a tear-jerker all right.
  
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  December 3, 2023 12:05pm
BeaB

Always reliably ponderous Claire Trevett tells us in yesterdays Herald that Hopkins looked chipper because “there are some benefits of Opposition – and one is being able to say whatever you like…without having to deliver on much”.
I thought that’s what he has always done – while in Government and as PM.
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December 3, 2023 10:11am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  He has never looked more insignificant than now, his whining will only see him plummet to single digits in polls, TPU poll out this week
  
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  December 3, 2023 10:57am
cmm

I see Chris Bishop is telling people about the tobacco research saying that the Smokefree policy is not saving lives. He is quite likely correct.

But Chris Bishop used to shill for the tobacco industry. Being involved in this is going to look like, or can easily be spun to look like, Bishop pushing an agenda.

It certainly makes it likely that the MSM digs up his past and uses that against him and National.

Of all the people that National could have chosen to spearhead this, Bishop is a poor choice IMHO because he is compromised to talk about tobacco.
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December 3, 2023 10:16am
- BeaB
  
  What nonsense. He worked for a tobacco company for two or three years when he left university. Ardern worked for Tony Blair who helped wage one of the worst wars of our times. That Greens MP whose name I cannot spell defended an appalling war criminal. I think Chris Hipkins worked in a fossil fuel industry. We can find something in everybody’s past to try to besmirch them.
  The nasty Left love to fling these slurs around. National doesn’t need to buy into their nonsense or be cowed by it.
  
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  December 3, 2023 10:26am
  - Jethrod
    
    This post needs framing !
    
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    December 3, 2023 10:53am
  - Swifty
    
    Very well said BeaB.
    
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    December 3, 2023 11:26am
  - Hugh Jarse
    
    I hope they don’t find out that Keiran McAnulty next Leader of the Labour Party worked for the evil TAB. Seems I should have used the term Shill in reply to the original post, he was also the Minister for Racing at some point.
    
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    December 3, 2023 12:35pm
    - nathie
      
      Indeed, gambling could be considered to be worse – people loosing $thousands (or more) and an attack on the poor (suffering from addictions)!
      
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      December 3, 2023 2:03pm
    - DeepBlue
      
      Or Nash in Forestry.
      
      Do these people ever consider prior work in the industry might help in the Ministerial roll.
      
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      December 3, 2023 5:19pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  They weee asked if the lobbyist Bishop had anything to do with that policy they both shock their heads and said he was not part of that policy
  
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  December 3, 2023 10:58am
- Bullion
  
  Well it looks bad when Bishop goes on TV and says the smoke free policy will result in 1 location in Northland selling tobacco when Jack Tame has the figures in front of him which say 35. And then Bishop when given that info just keeps repeating talking points like a wind up doll while Tame keeps pointing out that the 1 location talking point is wrong (either intentional or incompetent)
  
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  December 3, 2023 12:58pm
  - goNZ1
    
    Shows how the Catholics are active in govt these days,with a Bishop in a senior Cabinet position!
    
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    December 3, 2023 1:39pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      In the same way that it’s a shame that Brian Tamaki didn’t make the electoral cut.
      
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      December 3, 2023 8:51pm
igm

Come om MSM, tell us who is behind these gutless threats, or are we already aware of where they originate, but you are too endowed with ideology to publicise them!
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/more-hospitals-and-religious-sites-sent-concerning-emails-police-say/
Bastards responsible should be deported.
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December 3, 2023 11:16am
- Keith White
  
  Fairly sure that if it was a Person of Pallor with no link to the Religion of Peaces, he’d already be outed, doxxed, canceled, arrested and charged.
  
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  December 3, 2023 11:38am
- Che Guava
  
  Sending yourself a threatening email because public opinion is sharply against you can’t be ruled out as a possibility either. Maybe the police should release the details.
  
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  December 3, 2023 11:51am
- Ghost
  
  Police won’t want details of the letters released as so far they are able to tell they are all from the same writer. The other thing is it seems obvious that the person is using some form of anonymous remailer when sending them as police have said they are working with international help to try track them down
  
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  December 3, 2023 12:03pm
  - Keith White
    
    Again, I’m pretty sure that if the threats are aimed at hospitals and schools and synagogues, these are not coming from the Ku Klux Klan. But WokeCoster & Co., feel free to provide information to demonstrate otherwise.
    
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    December 3, 2023 4:48pm
- Inandout
  
  igm, coincides with Gaga and Hamas demos. Some are jumping on the bandwagon.
  
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  December 3, 2023 2:09pm
Liberty

Repealing Labour’s stringent smoking laws is a victory for property rights. The new regulation resulted in confiscating the selling rights to cigarettes for 5,400 establishments. Regrettably, Labour’s media lackeys have failed to disclose this violation of property rights. Instead, they have opted for sensational articles about underprivileged children smoking. Neglecting to acknowledge that it is entirely unlawful for minors to purchase tobacco, emphasizing that children smoking is more closely related to parental challenges. Furthermore, there has been no transparency on the amount of compensation that dairy owners would receive after being forced to surrender their cigarette retail rights.

Note reference is overseas publication
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/13/new-zealand-passes-world-first-tobacco-law-to-ban-smoking-by-2025
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December 3, 2023 12:17pm
- Rumblestrip
  
  The usual suspects in the MSM are hammering the smoking story over and over as if National are evil villains conspiring with tobacco companies.
  
  Of course the more hysterical the media gets, the more people wake up to their bullshit and just turn off.
  
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  December 3, 2023 4:26pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

Oh boy, the natives will not be happy.
The Net Taxpayers cannot sustain this any longer.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/radio-host-declares-to-elite-maori-weve-had-enough-of-your-bullying-bs/?

Speech:
https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/2023-12-03-10-33-20.mp4
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December 3, 2023 12:31pm
Tom Barker

If this country is Middle Earth, it’s now being ruled by Sauron and the orcs.
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December 3, 2023 12:32pm
- Swifty
  
  How would you characterise it 2017-23?
  
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  December 3, 2023 1:19pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump Trolls Hannity, Newsom, DeSantis & Fox News With Hilarious 1 Minute Video.

https://twitter.com/yoshithepatriot/status/1730464302149317019?
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December 3, 2023 12:38pm
- sungsamning
  
  Hilarious. I just watched this three times.
  
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  December 4, 2023 12:57am
goNZ1

Wellington has a new bar recently opened called Tory Channel, with a live feed to WCC chambers.
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December 3, 2023 1:42pm
- greybeard
  
  We also have a street called “Tory Street” : the mind boggles at to what mayoral connections that may have.
  Numerous bars & cafes.
  
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  December 3, 2023 4:23pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  And they (wellywood) wanted a tory (English) leader,
  They got one LOL!!
  
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  December 3, 2023 5:54pm
Maggy Wassilieff

The Maori Party is preparing a “call to action”

https://www.teaonews.co.nz/2023/12/03/beginning-of-whats-to-come-te-pati-maori-to-issue-nationwide-call-to-action-spokesperson/
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December 3, 2023 2:11pm
- nathie
  
  One would expect everyday street activists to “call to action” … but a political party (TMP) that is already in Parliament, meaning they have the privilege (granted by the colonialists) to both ask questions of the Govt in Question Time and be at the top table at any Select Committee type hearings to help shape outcomes with their submissions and with those of their supporters?
  
  That’s democracy in action. What part of that does TMP have a problem with?
  
  Will the cowardly acquiescent MSM call them out on their thuggish threats? And why they are not exercising their privileged position to promote their cause?
  
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  December 3, 2023 4:58pm
- Ghost
  
  Interesting they are against English becoming an official language. As much as I try I just can’t find anything that the Māori health agency has achieved.
  
  I’d like to see Luxon, regularly meeting with iwi leaders. That will shit the Māori party down if he reaches out to and works with iwi leaders.
  
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  December 3, 2023 5:11pm
- DimChappie
  
  The article has expanded: Te Rūnanga o Ngāi Te Rangi Iwi Trust (Mt Maunganui) is calling for a national Maori Action day on Tuesday.
  
  Grievances:
  Treaty Principles Review Bill, end of Maori Health Authority, English becoming an official language.
  The last para sounds like a hikoi: “We are once again taking to the roads, and invite you to walk with us. This is not a specific Ngāi Te Rangi issue, this impacts all of us of te iwi Māori. Bring your whānau and tangata tiriti mates along and lets hit the bricks!”
  
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  December 3, 2023 5:17pm
- kowtow
  
  Thery really are the clowns they dress up as .
  
  A “maori action day “that lasts all of one whole hour .
  
  “On Tuesday 5th of December a National Māori Action Day is scheduled from 7.30am to 8.30am.
  
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  December 3, 2023 5:30pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Two are going. One is not me. Must be you kowtow.
    
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    December 3, 2023 5:55pm
vand

–at the moment, you’ve got the US Navy parked in the region as a guarantee for Israel’s ethnic cleansing in Gaza, deterring intervention from Israel’s enemies. for Israel’s ethnic cleansing in Gaza, ”
Get it right Che- I thought it was genocide wasn’t it? Hopeless job they’re doing -Gazan population of 160,000 50 odd years ago is now 2.3 million . Human shields help inflate the casualty numbers as Hamas intended – monsters that Hamas are .
I recall Hamas started this war (ended the fragile ceasefire applying up to 7 October ) Actions have consequences Che
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December 3, 2023 2:11pm
Jack5

St John – Hato Hone: the background

St John, now St John/Hato Hone, is a sizeable outfit by this country’s standards. Its accounts total hundreds of millions of dollars. No wonder the Woke are awake to it.

Full name: The Priory in New Zealand of the Most Venerable Order of St John in Jerusalem. The parent organisation in Britain was given a royal charter by Queen Victoria in 1888.

The origins go back to the Crusades a thousand years ago. The original St John was an order, a sort of religious brotherhood, that both cared for Palestine-bound pilgrims and and became fighting knights who protected these marathon walkers from Muslim and non-Muslim predators.

Yep, Wokies now in a tradition descended from fighting knights?

The British organisation describes itself both as “a working Order of Chivalry” and “a modern organisation delivering first aid, healthcare and support services around the world”.

About 190 groups around NZ are included in a group registration of St John charities, with about 46 of them marked “deregistered”. This leaves about 144 St John charities active.

The group name of the charities in this country is Order of St John of New Zealand.

The titular head, or prior, is the NZ Governor-General. The chancellor, sort of board chairman, is John Whitehead, who was the Government’s Treasury secretary from 2003 to 2011.

The chief executive is Peter Bradley, appointed in 2012 when he returned from Britain, where he was chief executive of the London Ambulance Service. The St John-Hato Hone web site says Bradley has led the development of a new five-year strategy “and as part of that has seen the launch of new values for the organisation.”

Over all, the NZ St John charities had a net worth, or as the group report labels it, “balance,” at 30 June, 2022 ,of $244,283,000.

Value of property, plant and equipment was just over $434 million.

The group had cash and short-term deposits at the bank on balance date of $28 million – its working capital.

A random sample – software (including licences) was in the books at $49.5 million. Call and dispatch systems don’t come cheap.

The “surplus” reported for the financial year to that date was $33,152,000, which it supplemented with a transfer from reserves of $17,105,000, giving it a net deficit for the year of $7,579,000.

The cash-flow report says $396,691,000 was received from providing goods and services. Donations and bequests provided $47,601,000. “Revenue from transport services” provided $300,017,000.

Payments to staff and suppliers were $407,622,000.
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December 3, 2023 3:29pm
- greybeard
  
  Will the “Hato-Hone” bit mean that the maori will claim it for their own, having had such a sophisticated health system in place prior to 1800 ?
  
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  December 3, 2023 4:19pm
  - Keith White
    
    It appears that when the fastest (surviving) moas were harnessed to carts using the wheel the tangata whenua were very familiar with, casualties of war and illness could be brought to the local marae for sophisticated healing well within the Golden Hour.
    
    The Persians of antiquity apparently could get to 35 mph with a horse-drawn chariot so I’m sure our First Settlers could do much better.
    
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    December 3, 2023 4:47pm
  - Swifty
    
    How did Maori name and operate their 24/7 ambulance services?
    
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    December 3, 2023 4:53pm
    - Colville
      
      Patu then hangi?
      
      7 2
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      December 3, 2023 5:38pm
      - Keith White
        
        Tame then Jackson?
        
        5 2
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        December 3, 2023 6:21pm
- JJ56
  
  Your point is?
  
  A charity providing a badly needed ambulance service?
  
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  December 3, 2023 7:21pm
  - Jack5
    
    It’s about a Woke move on a charity – a local charity which runs an ambulance service.
    
    Many people are puzzled why the main wording on many ambulances has been changed to a language 95 per cent of them don’t speak.
    
    Potentially this is a local version of the Woke-ification of Amnesty International.
    
    What is your point, JJ56?
    
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    December 3, 2023 7:41pm
Gulag1917

Israel is a testing ground for United States weapons.
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December 3, 2023 4:08pm
greybeard

I watched a bit of the womens’ cricket match this afternoon, NZ vs Pakistan.
NZ were crap.
The male commentator on TV1 had a fixation with the name of the city, and must have called it “Otepoti-Dunedin” about 100 times at least. Obviously under instructions by TV1 management.
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December 3, 2023 4:17pm
- Jack5
  
  Agreed on Maori use. TVNZ staff are mutinying against the owners – the Government and people of NZ.
  
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  December 3, 2023 4:29pm
  - cas
    
    Well the weather reporter on 1 news went all in tonight. Just about every second word was Maori. Totally impossible to understand. I put it on pause until I could scroll past it to the good sort who just happens to have made 800 cabinets so that defibrillators can be stored in outside locations. Now the latter was worth watching
    
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    December 3, 2023 7:47pm
- MCōs
  
  I watched that game too
  NZ are ranked #3 and Pakistan #8, but it didn’t look that way today
  I didn’t notice the use of Ōtepoi, but I read an interesting article recently about cities & countries that ditched their colonial names & there’s quite a few
  
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  December 3, 2023 6:40pm
  - Jack5
    
    Ōtepoi?
    
    NZ will never be a fully dual-language country unless Chinese or Hindi is one of the two tongues.
    
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    December 3, 2023 6:57pm
    - MCōs
      
      I presume you mean language
      There’s no such thing as a language called ‘Chinese’
      There are 300+ living languages in China
      An elderly Chinese woman who lives near me and was born in Mangere Bridge when it was predominantly a market garden area is familiar with Cantonese, very much a minority language
      
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      December 3, 2023 8:00pm
      - Jack5
        
        MCos, you are familiar with Asian languages, from your time in Thailand.
        
        Most of the 300 languages or dialects in China, use but one written language.
        
        About 1.34 billion speak Mandarin Chinese as their mother tongue.
        
        Cantonese is mother tongue of more than 80 million people, and it’s a hard language to learn with more tones than Mandarin. Cantonese has long been a traditional language of Chinese New Zealanders.
        
        A Chinese speaker on the blog may well correct me, but I understand that the Chinese name for New Zealand is a homophone based on the sound of the English-language name “New Zealand”. You can hear it on the web at Google Translate.
        
        I was told the actual meaning in Chinese of this name, which very roughly, even faintly, sounds like “New Zealand,” is something like “jade land”, which wouldn’t be inappropriate.
        
        One of our Kiwiblog Chinese speakers may help with a literal translation of the meaning of the Chinese name for NZ: 新西兰
        
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        December 3, 2023 8:51pm
      - Jake Dee
        
        新西兰 is a partial transliteration of New Zealand. The first character is xīn = New
        the next two are xīlán which is the homophone of Zealand.
        You’re not exactly correct about the 1.34 speaking mandarin as a mother tongue. That’s 普通话 Pǔtōnghuà a standardized form of Mandarin established as a common language after the revolution. Everyone gets it at school so it’s something like a second language. Plenty of the local dialects are on a dialect continuum with it.
        
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        December 3, 2023 9:22pm
      - Jack5
        
        Thank you, Jake!
        
        With the help of Google Translate:
        谢谢
        (Xièxiè)
        
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        December 3, 2023 10:40pm
Ghost

This seems to be in relation to what has been getting posted here the past few days

Legal action has been taken against a Te Whatu Ora employee who is accused of misusing data to spread misinformation about vaccines.

Te Whatu Ora have confirmed the employee has since been removed, a police complaint has been laid and an employment investigation is underway.

Margie Apa, Chief Executive of Te Whatu Ora said the individual had worked in the health system for a number of years, and was authorised to access data as part of his work.

“From what we have established to date, the individual downloaded a large amount of vaccine related information. We are still working to confirm the full extent of this activity,” she said.

Article
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December 3, 2023 4:50pm
- Jake Dee
  
  This is where things are going to get interesting. The vaccines mortality rate is one thing but the reaction to this data breach is something else.
  The managerial class sees a certain portion of the population as rabid dogs who need to be stopped by whatever means necessary. There is a real danger that they will over reach in this case.
  
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  December 3, 2023 5:27pm
Swifty

An absolute must watch.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W1ITy9SCRKs

Lord Hannan in Wellie, courtesy of the Taxpayer’s Union.

Contrast his words with the absolute partisan, low-calorie drivel our elites serve up to us and especially over the last six years.

We are being led by absolute donkeys.
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December 3, 2023 4:51pm
- surfing
  
  It’s a good talk. And he also affirms my view that the magna carta is the greatest document ever written.
  
  And Maori are trying to scrub out the principles of the Magna Carta!
  
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  December 3, 2023 5:21pm
- Gjc
  
  I just enjoy listening to Hannn.One of the worlds most lucid speakers.
  Especially when he was an MEP back in pre Brexit.
  
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  December 3, 2023 5:48pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Good.
Govt scraps Lake Onslow hydro scheme. This was the result of Green Uni experts having a climate change brain fart. The speed at which these bastards can spend Net Taxpayer’s money id incredible. Do it in the Private Sector and you will be gone by lunchtime!

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/pouring-money-down-the-drain-govt-scraps-lake-onslow-hydro-scheme/ar-AA1kU49w
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December 3, 2023 5:16pm
- kevn
  
  SteveO… How much has already been spent on consultants and the like?
  
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  December 3, 2023 6:12pm
  - Chris Nisbet
    
    One News told us it was $20M, which seems a very small amount considering how much we managed to waste on things like the harbour bridge cycle way.
    
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    December 3, 2023 7:05pm
    - Jack5
      
      Stuff’s missed headline: Lake Onslow down the gurgler with Labour.
      
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      December 3, 2023 8:06pm
- JJ56
  
  Nothing Greenie about it, it was Labour (Megan Woods) providing distraction for their 100% renewable electricity ambitions.
  
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  December 3, 2023 7:16pm
igm

When will we ever learn?
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/world/paris-police-arrest-man-who-stabbed-passers-by-killing-one-and-injuring-two-official-says/
Yet another from the religion of peace killing and maiming those that are keeping him.
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December 3, 2023 5:16pm
- Ghost
  
  So been in prison for planning a violent attack, suffers from psychiatric disorders, yeah, best person to allow to be free in society.
  
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  December 3, 2023 5:25pm
Benedict Yu

And here we go. “Gotcha” tactics by the media.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301019597/luxon-admits-weve-got-it-wrong-on-number-of-cigarette-outlets-in-northland

The lead story is that the Government incorrectly reported the number of tobacco outlets that would have been allowed in Northland under the stupid last Government tobacco policy. Who cares?

Mr Luxon is far too polite. This is going to go on and on and on. Why doesn’t he tell them to sod off for being imbeciles?
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December 3, 2023 6:12pm
- Keith White
  
  I’m going with Ian Fleming here.
  
  “Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action.”
  
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  December 3, 2023 6:22pm
- Ghost
  
  Two prime ministers
  
  One that admits he got a figure wrong and corrects it
  
  One who would lie and mislead and told the public they were the single source of truth
  
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  December 3, 2023 6:23pm
- nathie
  
  For sure, but at least Luxon admits when getting it wrong …. which was something almost unheard of from Labour when they frequently got things wrong 2017-2023!
  
  Suspect the public will appreciate the honesty from National in contrast to the “I refute that” nonsense that came from Labour MP’s mouths!
  
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  December 3, 2023 6:25pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  So Labour was going to keep 35 genocidal outfits operating in Northland if it had won the election.
  
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  December 3, 2023 6:42pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    The question I have is where did the information come from which Mr Luxon used about the tobacco outlets in Northland?
    Has someone in a health related ministry deliberately given Luxon and National the wrong data to make them look foolish?
    The National Party is going to have to check and re-check every bit of information before engaging with the media to talk about it.
    I suppose this smoking issue was one of Mr Peters’ bottom line demands for joining the collation government?
    Surely there are more pressing matters (the state of the economy for example) that could be worked on before getting pulled up about cigarette availability.
    Come on National- be more sensible please.
    
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    December 3, 2023 6:55pm
    - peterwn
      
      I would not personally mind if smoking was completely banned tomorrow. However it would cause all sorts of problems – smuggling, black market etc. The legislation as it stands is also potentially troublesome, it needs to be eased back to balance direct harm reduction with properly managing issues such as robberies, black market etc. Some people especially so-called ‘experts’ think that problems can be fixed by brute force.
      
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      December 3, 2023 9:54pm
  - Swifty
    
    Haha, yes, very good point.
    
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    December 3, 2023 7:24pm
    - Gravelroad
      
      If you are going to put your Prime Minister up to talk about an obscure subject such as the number of cigarette outlets in one province, you really need to be sure that he is fully and correctly briefed on the details.
      Otherwise, he is made to look a fool in the media.
      Not good enough, National.
      
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      December 3, 2023 7:53pm
      - Ghost
        
        It wasn’t luxon. They were asking about figures that bishop presented this morning and that luxon had to clean up.
        
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        December 3, 2023 7:58pm
      - Ghost
        
        Oh wait, another article says luxon was mentioning it last week.
        
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        December 3, 2023 8:22pm
oldpark

Notice Labour Party Channel TVNZ on News at Six o’clock got off on a comment NZs Prime Minister Christopher Luxon made. It was on Tobacco Outlets in Northland,He apologised for wrong figures. Not before the smirking and got-ya was well represented by the below par type of news TVNZ do every night at News Time .
TVNZ wheeled out some we know best commenters or has been or never wases even a failed Health Ministers called Verral .The joke that kept giving about Health when Labour led and mislaid the Nation almost Daily .Seems she has learned nothing about how inept she was under Labour .Go Figure.
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December 3, 2023 6:19pm
- nathie
  
  Verrall usually sounds like she is about to burst out in tears. That must be what being a Labour MP does to a person – always having to spin exaggerated porkies and sound sincere without cracking under the pressure!
  
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  December 3, 2023 6:27pm
- kowtow
  
  Watched it .
  I reckon they’ve made an editorial decesion to got to war with the coalition.
  The maori stuff very over board too.
  
  Either that or there’s been a coup and the children are now running it full time.
  
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  December 3, 2023 7:16pm
  - Jack5
    
    The six current directors of Television New Zealand:
    
    Alastair Carruthers Auckland;
    Linda Clark, Wellington;
    Ripeka Evans, Wellington;
    Megan Ruth Matthews, Upper Moutere;
    John Edward Christopher Quirk, Auckland;
    Aliesha Ngaire Everlyn Staples, Dairy Flat.
    
    The new Government could quickly appoint another seven to take control of the board and the TV company.
    
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    December 3, 2023 7:35pm
Chris Nisbet

Hmm, so The Herald has done a story about the vaccination data breach. Not that surprising to get only one side of the story…
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/te-whatu-ora-granted-urgent-injunction-police-complaint-filed-over-mass-privacy-breach-of-covid-19-vaccination-data-by-former-staff-member/EUKC3NHC6FAOVL2YJSE4GUR6BU/
The story mentions a conspiracy theory website in NZ. Are they referring to some legacy media website?
They say that the claims from the perp are completely wrong, but don’t bother to tell us what the claims are. We assume it’s related to excess deaths because we’re informed that excess deaths absolutely aren’t anything to do with the jab, but it doesn’t occur to the reporter to let us know what the level of excess deaths is, or what the cause of them might be.
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December 3, 2023 6:33pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Pharma have massive advertising budgets in NZ, so media have strong motivation to put their commercial interests before those of the public. Same as will pushing govt propaganda (govt are biggest advertiser in NZ).
  
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  December 3, 2023 6:40pm
- dcrane
  
  We should demand that the new government release all of the anonymised data. It’s time to sort this crap out.
  
  (Hoping the previous government wasn’t so incompetent as to fail to keep the records properly. Or so devious as to do so deliberately.)
  
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  December 3, 2023 6:52pm
- Paul Marsden
  
  Big pharma could buy and sell our govt heaven only knows, how many times over. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.
  
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  December 3, 2023 9:18pm
Ghost

Hmmm

There are warnings that New Zealand’s freshwater quality could go back decades with a Government plan to roll back regulations.

The new Government has agreed to replace the national policy statement on freshwater, which sets out how land and water can be used to ensure it remains healthy.

A recent study paints a dire picture of freshwater quality, with E-coli seeping through three-quarters of land into waterways at higher levels than rules allow.

Our Land and Water director Jenny Webster-Brown said that “every report that comes out is a moment of despair”.

Article

So we aren’t really going to go back decades because Te Mana o Te Wai has not accomplished anything.
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December 3, 2023 7:56pm
Swifty

A brilliant, extremely well-argued contribution to an important debate from the Maritime Union:

📸 Look at this post on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/share/v/jQTv46MDsdE3VcA9/?mibextid=WC7FNe

//
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December 3, 2023 9:00pm
- Ghost
  
  Is she having to read what she’s saying
  
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  December 3, 2023 9:09pm
  - Swifty
    
    Yeah, I saw that too.
    
    Not exactly a big piece she had to learn.
    
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    December 3, 2023 10:31pm
DimChappie

Here is the covid vaccine whistleblower video, good stuff from 34:50 mark.

https://rumble.com/v3ynskd-operation-m.o.a.r-mother-of-all-revelations.html
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December 3, 2023 11:09pm
- Ghost
  
  He has since been arrested
  
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  December 3, 2023 11:31pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    Can you point me in the direction of some details?
    As I mentioned before, this has the potential to get very hot and maybe very bad.
    If this guy, as I suspect, sees himself as a truth telling whistle blower, non violent and dedicated to the public welfare, shutting him up will be damned difficult.
    If the managerial class see him, as I suspect, as a dangerous criminal nutcase spreading infectious misinformation, then they have to shut him up.
    Thereby giving more ammunition to their critics.
    That’s a setup for a dangerous confrontation.
    An important part of the managers job is to ensure the workers have confidence in the managers.
    
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    December 3, 2023 11:46pm
    - Ghost
      
      Police have confirmed a health worker has been arrested for allegedly misusing and disclosing vaccination data.
      
      He has been charged with accessing a computer system for dishonest purposes and will appear in the Wellington District Court on Monday.
      
      Article
      
      NZ herald
      
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      December 3, 2023 11:59pm
      - Jake Dee
        
        Many thanks, I’ll keep my antenna tuned for information black outs on this one. If the individual in question claims he’s a whistle blower acting in the public interest then things could get very spicy.
        If the powers that be claim the data contains absolutely nothing and also that you are absolutely not allowed to see it, then it’s going to be interesting.
        
        “The wicked flee when no man pursueth, but the righteous are as bold as a lion.”
        Proverbs 28:1
        
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        December 4, 2023 1:43am
    - DimChappie
      
      If you watch the whole video there’s tonnes of details. He managed a database for covid vaccine payments and he has been arrested for downloading and analysing the data.
      
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      December 4, 2023 12:03am
AlphaWhiskey

I know that DPF has no problem with the unequal application of justice when it comes to Trump, but perhaps others might benefit from this.

https://youtu.be/shhB6dzu07E?si=m2UyRiJKpcJHnWe3
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December 4, 2023 4:34am

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