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December 1, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 01 December 2023

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General Debate

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krazykiwi

Our Mods have a thankless task, and despite my initial hesitancy I believe their efforts have stopped the worst of the nasty posts at KB. Theirs is also a position of privilege, and with that comes an expectation that they will wield their comment editing power carefully, and in line with policy. A good part of that duty of care is to read comments for what they are and avoid jumping to unfounded conclusions. Yesterday I was on the receiving end of what I consider to be unfounded content deletion, and my subsequent protest was deleted, as was my comment that these deletions represented an abuse of editorial power.

The originally moderated comment from greybeard concluded with: “[Mod – keep politicians children out of it]”. Not sure what was said, but that’s probably fair enough. It’s policy. Accepted.

I replied along the lines of: “Sure, but politicians can and do bring out their kids to generate political capital”. I clearly wasn’t debating the policy, one I agree with. I was indicating that politicians can and do put their kids in harms way for a bit of a lift in the polls. The Mod removed this text and replaced it with “[Mod – not up for debate, we are not bringing a politicians child into it here]”.

Perplexed, I replied along the lines of: “I wasn’t bringing any politician’s child into the discussion”. The Mod then removed this content and replaced it with “[Mod – not up for debate, we are not bringing children into it]”

I replied with: “I wasn’t. And you are, I’m sorry to say abusing your moderation privileges. If you want to debate something then by all means do so as a regular commentator rather than editing my comment to oblivion then then misrepresenting what I said. Natural justice, free speech and all that.”. The Mod completely deleted this comment.

I replied with: “Cute, Mod. Another deleted comment. No, I won’t let you get away with this. It is unacceptable. (Written knowing you’re hovering over the keyboard ready to delete this comment, just like my last. But don’t fret. I’m keeping them)”. You guessed it: This comment was also deleted.

To be clear, I have no problem with DPF’s moderation policy being applied. It is reasonable and promotes civil discussion. His place, his rules.

But I have a big problem with a Mod misreading a comment, editing text out, misrepresenting what was said (when it is no longer visible to the community), and then simply deleting comments attempting to point this out. That is an abuse of editorial privilege and Kiwiblog is not well served by it.

To the Mod who tangled with me: Please don’t delete this comment. I implore you to comprehend comments before wielding the editorial axe. If you realise you’ve overstepped, then just apologise and move on rather than deleting comments to cover your trail. DFP runs probably New Zealand’s most open and civil forum. It is up to all of us, Mods included, to keep it that way. Thank you.
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December 1, 2023 8:02am
- Opie
  
  I note a trend recently where instead of a section of a comment being removed, the whole post just disappears so you don’t even know what the mod took exception to…
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:08am
  - 3-coil
    
    Opie: I’ve also had entire comments disappear totally – no sign they were lodged at all, no sign of any feedback from the moderator. Most were anti-Labour, so I just presumed DPF had a closet lefty moderator infiltrate the ranks.
    
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    December 1, 2023 8:37am
    - Opie
      
      Or when I linked to some excellent Twitter analysis on wellingtons mayor…
      
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      December 1, 2023 9:44am
      - lifesgood
        
        I agree with your post, KK. There was an over zealous moderator on here for a long time, one who frequently made comments his or her self. I have noticed the quality of moderation has improved so can only conclude said moderator is no longer moderating. I too have felt aggrieved when a couple of my comments have been moderated or wiped. I think sometimes the written word does not quite capture the tone of a comment as it would if it was spoken. Having said that, it is, no doubt, a difficult job for the moderators.
        
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        December 1, 2023 10:04am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Yes, a as bd her antics with the watchers is well known and recorded
        
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        December 1, 2023 10:17am
      - Jack5
        
        The moderation has much improved in the last half-year or year or so, in my opinion.
        
        The return to his cave of the moderator🦇Batman has contributed to this in my humble view, but I’m prejudiced by encounters with him and by long delays in moderation in those days.
        
        I don’t know if our moderators are paid, but when you have to read our posts, it must at times be heavy going.
        
        Thank you Kiwiblog folk, you mostly get it right, and thank you DF for providing this wall of freedom for us to write on.
        
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        December 1, 2023 11:00am
      - ecco
        
        I just hope some of the commenters on this site who are heavy users are giving kiwiblog a hefty donation, commensurate with the number of posts being made, for providing this platform of free entertainment 24/7.
        
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        December 1, 2023 12:34pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  You must be over the target. Your comment has been there 10 minutes!
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:13am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I get your point. However the moderator did not get the nuances that you are making here. I don’t think that many politicians do trot out their children for publicity. The only incident I can think of is Jacinda in the UN General Assembly.
  
  I also think that spouses of politicians should be completely off limits unless said spouse voluntarily enters into public political discussion. Clarke Gayford clearly did so.
  
  My advice would be to let it go. 🙂
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:13am
  - MCōs
    
    “I don’t think that many politicians do trot out their children for publicity.”
    
    Women’s Weekly is full of them
    
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    December 1, 2023 8:19am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Thanks I did not know that. I have never read that magazine 😅
      
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      December 1, 2023 8:27am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        MCos has never read it either. It was just open on the coffee table. 🙂
        
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        December 1, 2023 8:32am
      - Colville
        
        Anyone who has stood in a supermarket checkout line knows that, you dont need to read it.
        
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        December 1, 2023 9:20am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Don’t you go to the doctor, Benedict? It’s the only way I have to keep up with celebrity gossip.
        
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        December 1, 2023 10:15am
      - Flossie
        
        Once covid became a thing my doctors’ surgery dispensed with magazines. And haven’t reinstated them.
        
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        December 1, 2023 10:51am
    - I remember when
      
      New Idea, likewise!
      
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      December 1, 2023 9:16am
    - NothingLeft
      
      Those womens mags have been dumbing NZ women down for generations – a torch since taken up by tik tok and insta.
      
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      December 1, 2023 9:56am
      - alwyn.a
        
        I can’t remember the exact quote but it went something like.
        “None of the women’s magazines tell the truth. Woman’s Day is a weekly, Woman’s Weekly is a monthly and New Idea hasn’t had one in twenty years.”
        
        The best of them, in its prime, was Woman’s Weekly.
        Woman’s Weekly had the same editor from 1952 to 1985, a woman named Jean Wishart. She was a spinster who lived with her mother I believe but somehow had a total understanding of what people wanted to read. The magazine had an amazing circulation and everyone seemed to buy it. When she retired it had a readership of more than a million. That was when the population was only about 3 million
        It covered topics like child abuse, drugs, abortion family violence and so on back in the days when no one else did.
        
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        December 1, 2023 4:57pm
  - slightlyrighty
    
    Benedict, be it by design or by accident, the absence of nuance in debate in recent times is potentially leading to the downfall of discourse.
    
    We have become too sensitive in society, and at the same time, our tribalism has led many of us to see all issues from a very absolutist viewpoint.
    
    Who has the best argument has been replaced by who is the most offended, or various appellations of the Oppressor/Oppressed narrative.
    
    This does not bode well, and that the front lines of this battle would appear to be the hallways of academia is even more troubling.
    
    As Bertrand Russell said, “One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision.”
    
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    December 1, 2023 8:25am
    - cmm
      
      “One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision.”
      
      aka Dunning Kruger effect, of which our Cindy was a textbook case.
      
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      December 1, 2023 8:32am
    - Rodney Hide
      
      You remind me of one of my professors who was very disintinguished in his field saying of his activist colleague: he is more certain of everything, than I am of anything!
      
      Rodney Hide
      
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      December 1, 2023 9:02am
      - NothingLeft
        
        “the best lack all conviction while the worst are full of passionate intensity” (The second coming by W.B Yeats)
        
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        December 1, 2023 9:57am
    - MCōs
      
      Bertrand Russell died more than fifty years ago so it’s not a particularly new phenomenon
      
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      December 1, 2023 10:33am
      - cmm
        
        No, not new at all. The Dunning-Kruger research was relatively new (around 2000), but the general problem is well understood from long ago.
        
        The closely related cargo cult phenomenon was recorded back in the 1800s.
        
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        December 1, 2023 10:43am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Neve had her own UN ID tag you know.
    
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    December 1, 2023 8:26am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I would say Moderators get out of line just like the rest of use, and they don’t know until it is brought to their attention. We are all human.
    
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    December 1, 2023 8:30am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      How many Moderators upticked that?
      All but the one who was on KK’s case….
      
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      December 1, 2023 7:26pm
  - Local Miller
    
    Why let it go. I agree with KK here as I said following his comments being moderated yesterday. The moderators have carte blanche and it looks like DPF doesn’t review what they do.
    
    Whether it’s true or not that “politicians can and do bring out their kids to generate political capital”, KK saying this doesn’t bring their children into the debate, it simply raises a debate topic on whether politicians do. This comment should never have been moderated out.
    
    I raise the same question I did yesterday, where is the accountability of moderators for their actions?
    
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    December 1, 2023 8:56am
    - mawm
      
      You can email David directly – his email address is available on this blog, and put in a complaint if you feel you have been unfairly treated. One of the moderators, no longer moderating, who made posts disappear or would abuse commenters did so repeatedly to me and my complaint was kindly attended to by David.
      
      Fortunately almost all those active on this blog are adults who will politely disagree with others without verbal abuse. It makes this one of the best blogs around.
      
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      December 1, 2023 9:36am
      - Bridgenag
        
        that moderator also delayed posts for hours
        
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        December 1, 2023 11:00am
    - ecco
      
      It would be interesting to have a monthlong stint at the moderating job, say 4-6 hours a day, and see what the job is like…
      
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      December 1, 2023 4:29pm
  - pdm
    
    BY – as far as spouses/partners are oncerned entering the debate it seems to be the way of the left.
    
    To Gayford you can add Peter Davis (Helen Clark) and Anne Collins (Michael Cullen). Both of the above wrote numerous letters to papers under the above names supporting Government Policy of the time without any disclosure whatsoever. There will be others I am not aware of.
    
    As far as children are concerned didn’t Mallard flaunt Jacinda’s baby sitting on his knee in the Speakers Chair? Tamati Coffee and Willow Jean Prime were others seen with babies/children in the debating chamber while the house was sitting.
    
    Where is the line drawn?
    
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    December 1, 2023 8:57am
    - James Stephenson
      
      If we were to take a recent example from “our” side of things, let’s consider Max Key.
      
      IMO discussion of him golfing with his Dad and Obama was perfectly fine. Criticism of whatever he’s doing, making his own way in the world as some form of attack on his Dad, not ok.
      
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      December 1, 2023 10:26am
    - JackRabbit
      
      By the look of newsroom, like other bribed media, they really trying hard to earn their PJIF money, writing either hit pieces on the current govt, or writing puff pieces on Labour and carefully selecting writers and commenters to those articles, to have the most positive spin for Labour.
      
      Case in Point: Commenter: Peter Davis:
      https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/11/29/the-choices-ardernism-made/#comment-103172
      
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      December 1, 2023 10:37am
    - alwyn.a
      
      Both Peter Davis, and Anne Collins were well known people in their own right. Davis was (is?) a University Professor and Collins had been a Labour MP at the time she married Cullen.
      Neither made any secret of who their spouses were.
      
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      December 1, 2023 5:03pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    “My advice would be to let it go”
    
    I have. Writing was cathartic 👍
    
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    December 1, 2023 11:31am
- KH
  
  Chill krazykiwi. Relax. You might think the sky has fallen, but it hasn’t.
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:14am
- Rusty
  
  @ krazykiwi
  
  Lets call it a misunderstanding.
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:21am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  DPF’s blog, DPF’s rules
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:40am
  - Local Miller
    
    But the moderators aren’t actually applying the rules, they are applying their interpretation of the rules, which in KK’s case has actually become a new rule.
    
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    December 1, 2023 8:58am
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      Still a matter for DPF.
      
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      December 1, 2023 10:42am
- greybeard
  
  Sorry you got into trouble due to my comment.
  Without now mentioning any names and occupations, I asked ( tongue-in-cheek, I might add ) if a certain reasonably well-known girl-child was accompanying her mother on a speaking tour or was she perhaps out fishing with her dad.
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:48am
  - Dudley Quaffquaff
    
    Which was, and still is, none of your business.
    
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    December 1, 2023 8:53am
    - Opie
      
      It becomes our business when she was continually rolled out to divert attention away from failure
      
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      December 1, 2023 9:43am
      - Dudley Quaffquaff
        
        No, it doesn’t. That fact that a parent has shown a child in public does not entitle the public to know any more about that child.
        
        And you can’t both blame a parent for publicising their child, and then yourself demand more of that publicity.
        
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        December 1, 2023 10:47am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Not fault of yours, greybeard. It has created an interesting discussion.
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:10am
- Ian Boag
  
  Did you raise the matter with DPF? Did he respond?
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:11am
- kevn
  
  kk… Maybe an email directly to our KB host would be (have been) an idea?
  
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  December 1, 2023 10:35am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Well written kk but I tend to agree with Benedict. Build a bridge and get over it – to me it’s the same as the Warriors complaining they never get a fair go from the referees. It never ends well.
  
  Their best seasons have been when they focused on what they can control and leave the whingeing about the referees to others.
  
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  December 1, 2023 11:25am
  - wsk12345
    
    Actually I think raising this issue is good. We all need a reminder of boundaries now and again – including the moderators. You say nothing and overtime they will overstep further and further without even realising in many cases that they are doing it.
    
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    December 1, 2023 11:32am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    If you truly believe in free speech as I do then you have a problem with censorship. Is the censorship a case of not believing the writers view point or is it genuine. That the rub. I draw the line at bad language and threatening language but thats all.
    
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    December 1, 2023 11:56am
- Chris R
  
  Your depiction of the events seems very well recorded and modulated. I have two matters which I suggest need additional thought.
  1 Ought it not be the owner of the blog who can dictate the conduct of all participants in the same manner we can all do so in our own properties?
  2 What is the point of the ability to downvote?
  Best wishes…
  
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  December 1, 2023 4:32pm
Captain Mainwaring

“The levels of the oceans could rise 40 feet and flood vast areas in the next half century unless atmospheric temperatures were controlled,” said a prominent physicist yesterday.
Dr Kaplan, professor of physics at the University of California and head of the National Committee for the 19** – ** International Geophysical Year, said that the melting of ice caps was being speeded by man’s tremendous use of oil and gas.
When did he say this?
15 April 1957, 66 and a half years ago, and the flooding of any areas let alone vast areas has yet to happen.
It would seem that climate fearmongering is not a new industry.
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December 1, 2023 8:02am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Dr Kaplan needs to go to Exit Glacier is Seward, Alaska and explain why that glacier has been receding since way before the industrial revolution.
  The face used to be at the Resurrection Bay sea some 12 miles away.
  Nice job getting paid handsomely for publishing shit.
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:21am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    I think Dr. Kaplan might be well dead by now. He said it in 1957.
    
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    December 1, 2023 8:24am
    - Matt Long
      
      I was just reading a 30 year old Footrot Flats cartoon blaming an early cyclone season on climate change. (Unprecedented, of course.)
      In that period the weather was blamed on cutting trees down, now the solution is communism instead of conservation.
      
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      December 1, 2023 10:56am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Looked up Exit Glacier. Wikipedia pointed at Alaskan newspaper articles (and other sources) chronicling recent rapid shrinkage.
    
    Your host family doubtless knows better ….
    
    Go figure
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:18am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Cool Cherry picking.
      You didnt address Steve’s comment, which was “explain why that glacier has been receding since way before the industrial revolution.”
      
      The Glacier has been retreating since measurements started in 1815. It was retreating much faster before 1918 than after.
      https://realclimatescience.com/2018/07/exit-glacier-alaska-an-icon-of-climate-fraud/#gsc.tab=0
      
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      December 1, 2023 9:29am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Measurements started in 1815 but the glacier face used to be in the sea. I don’t know what year it was in the sea.
        
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        December 1, 2023 10:26am
      - kevn
        
        All on… All he says is his mantra: ‘go figure’.
        
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        December 1, 2023 10:36am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Glacier retreat and global warming are a very non-linear equation.
        
        In fact warming can increase glacier advancement as the ice melts, thus reducing the glacier – rock friction and glacier movement speeds up.
        
        And years of high winds and falling temperatures can actually decrease glacier length/thickness. Ask anyone that put an uncovered ice tray in the freezer in September and goes to get ice cubes out for Christmas Eve drinks, only to find the cubes have shrunk to almost nothing.
        
        The science is only settled for zealots/idiots that cannot entertain indefinites and uncertainties, because that would is admitting they don’t know, and would require actual research and investigation in order to form a viewpoint.
        
        They are ‘black and white’ people who cannot deal with uncertainties because their minds are so full of biases, bullshit and contradictory eclectic ideas, that they would endure mental pain to have actual uncertainties occupting space.
        
        In short, the mental anguish from all those conflicting ideas, risks their heads exploding so they take it out on others, as we are seeing right now.
        
        Hipkin’s can’t reconcile a resounding election defeat with the brainwashing he has that he is better than Luxon, Seymour and Winston. So he goes on a childish rampage of vitriol and hateful slurs. Hipkins is still a child.
        
        As are the most of the people in politics, local politics, and the MSM, pouring forth vile hatred, in an almost satanic way as they can’t admit responsibility for their loss, or actions, and their inner evil bubbles up to the surface, and projected onto others.
        
        Another aspect of the ‘black and white people’:
        In their minds:
        -If you are not 100% on board with the mRNA vaccines, because of genuine doubts that need research, you are an anti-vaxxer.
        
        -If you are not 100% on board with the promoted climate change because of genuine doubts that need research, you are a climate change denier.
        
        These people have limited logic and thinking skills, and can’t deal with uncertainty, which is why they are in the public sector.
        
        Starting a business, and becoming an entrepreneur, is riddled with uncertainty. There is no guarantee of a paycheck unless you perform and use your smarts to succeed. It is far easier to suck on the state tit, and invent more and more devious ways to siphon public money into the trough for them and their friends.
        
        Most on the left, if not all, have never done an honest days work in their life.
        
        That is why 99% of all climate change theorists receive grants or are on the state tit.
        
        That is why 99% of all those promoting the mRNA are either on the state tit, getting backhanders, or clipping the ticket.
        
        Those who actually spend the time investigating the real science, the uncertainties, and the indefinites, in order to clarify things, are usually doing it on their own money.
        
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        December 1, 2023 11:26am
      - Ian Boag
        
        According to the article ….
        
        The loss measured last summer, 252 feet, was the biggest in any single summer on record. Over the year ending Oct. 1, after fall measurements were taken, the retreat was 293 feet, according to the National Park Service.
        
        Whatever …..
        
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        December 1, 2023 12:18pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        warming can increase glacier advancement as the ice melts, thus reducing the glacier – rock friction and glacier movement speeds up.
        
        The relatively credible (to me anyway) explanation is that glaciers have cracks – crevasses – some of which go all the way to bedrock. Surface meltwater flows down these cracks – the pressure enlarges them –
        
        So the meltwater gets to the bottom and lubricates the ice-rock interface. The net effect is to significantly increase the rate at which the glacier flows downhill.
        
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        December 1, 2023 1:09pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        “the loss …. was the biggest in any single summer on record. ”
        Ahem, that statement is incorrect.
        The link in the article to back that statement up goes to a video by the NPS.
        NO WHERE IN THAT VIDEO DOES THE NPS MAKE THAT CLAIM.
        Oh sure the article does but their Citation doesn’t prove it
        The NPS data in my link shows Glacier Retreat of 302 feet per annum from 1914-1917
        https://realclimatescience.com/2018/07/exit-glacier-alaska-an-icon-of-climate-fraud/#gsc.tab=0
        
        You never looked at the link did you
        Go figure
        
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        December 1, 2023 2:59pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Heh
        Hopefully the penny has now dropped for Ian why Realclimatescience labeled the article ‘an icon of climate fraud’
        
        Do try to keep up in future Ian
        
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        December 1, 2023 5:31pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      This was all separate from out host families who live in Anchorage.
      We stayed 4 nights at Seward’s Windsong Lodge as part of our second tour. There is a large display on Exit Glacier in the Reception area. I have photos.
      Look up Exit Glacier all you like. It does not beat actually being there – twice.
      
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      December 1, 2023 10:10am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Wikipedia – hahahaha nice one centurion. Like it, like it.
      
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      December 1, 2023 11:27am
- G152
  
  Given a wing loading of something incredible and proven impossible to achieve even pigs will fly
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:22am
- G152
  
  In the thoughtful 70s the claim was that we were coming out of an Ice Age.
  Scaremongers have seized upon this usual Earth cycle for their own odd reasons
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:25am
  - Flossie
    
    When I was at school in the 60s we were told to expect and prepare for a severe world cooling. Can’t recall when the message went right around to a severe world warming.
    
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    December 1, 2023 8:46am
- David Garrett
  
  Capt: Excellent…I have never seen “An inconvenient truth” but plan to watch it when I can, to see what confident predictions Gore made which haven’t to pass.
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:32am
  - cmm
    
    DG: I doubt you can make it the whole way through. I couldn’t.
    
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    December 1, 2023 8:36am
    - kowtow
      
      Each to their own , but worth it from an “educational” point of view to see what lies they were pushing esp in our schools .
      The big stand out for me was his lie about NZ taking climate refugees ( when at that time we hadn’t)
      
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      December 1, 2023 9:02am
  - Grunter
    
    I watched it when it first came out. I’ve been a ‘climate change denier’ ever since. It is such obvious BS using every propaganda trick in the book. So I credit, and thank Al Gore for alerting me to the scam that is now called “Global Boiling”
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:26am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Spoiler alert. All of them. 😂
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:39am
  - rouppe
    
    Make sure you watch “Planet of the Humans” after that.
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:51am
  - JackRabbit
    
    You are better to watch “the Great Global Warming Swindle”, as it covers Gore’s lies in detail, and covers the entire subject of global warning using real scientists and real science.
    
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    December 1, 2023 11:30am
- cmm
  
  said an inconsequential physicist trying to raise his prominence.
  
  There is supposed to be a 1 foot rise by 2050. If so it better stop doing its make up and get a wiggle on.
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:35am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Sometimes that roving decimal point gets misused.
    3cm becomes 300mm, becomes 3M. Coming from a metalwork fabrication workshop it never ceases to amaze me the number of people who just can not measure. I can work in metric or imperial.
    
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    December 1, 2023 8:41am
    - imalwaysright
      
      S.O
      When one of them laughingly informs the group that they ‘can’t do maths’, as if it is a badge of honour , I ask them if they can read and write !
      
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      December 1, 2023 8:58am
      - rouppe
        
        I went and got a sausage from the Mitre 10 a week or so ago.
        
        A bit OTT at $3 but what the heck. Gave them a $20.
        
        I overheard one of the girls (they were around 13 years old) ask her mates “is $17 the correct change?”
        
        That is the state of education these days…
        
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        December 1, 2023 9:54am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @rouppe,
        Lotto tickets. Lashed out and bought 2 x $28 tickets. I gave the girl $30 cash I had in my pocket and said the rests is EFTPOS. She had to use a calculator – even though the machine says what the remainder is. $26 ffs.
        Thick as pigshit.
        
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        December 1, 2023 10:32am
      - cmm
        
        rouppe: Working out $17 change is pretty good for the modern age.
        
        A few years back I interacted with a 16 or 17 year old who used a calculator to multiply by ten!
        
        I explained to him the “trick” of just adding a zero and he looked at me as if I was a magician. He then went off to show this cool trick to his mates.
        
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        December 1, 2023 10:48am
      - rouppe
        
        @cmm
        
        THAT is hilarious! Please tell me you went and told him it works with division as well!
        
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        December 1, 2023 3:28pm
      - alwyn.a
        
        @cmm
        Back in the 1970s I was working with a very smart person on the economics of a major project. He had a first class honors degree from Oxford.
        One day he had to multiply 0.6858 or suchlike by 100. When he reached for a calculator I started to laugh and got a very dirty look.
        Then he looked at the answer and had the decency to blush and then laugh himself.
        Anyone can do it on occasion.
        
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        December 1, 2023 5:14pm
- Grumpy Silver Haired Female
  
  Too right!
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:35am
  - kevn
    
    SteveO… In my past life I had been in (pre EFTPOS) retail and always made a point of counting change back to customers. They liked that rather than having a pile of money dumped in their palm.
    
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    December 1, 2023 10:40am
- Ehlana
  
  Is there actually enough water locked up in the ice caps to raise sea levels by 40 ft?
  
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  December 1, 2023 11:06am
  - JackRabbit
    
    If ALL the ice in the ice caps were to melt, irrespective of whether it raise sea levels by 40 feet, you would need global temperatures to rise by about 80°C, the coldest parts of the rock and ice, so it’s a mute point.
    
    Even then it would not melt overnight.
    
    Short of hurling the earth out of orbit towards the sun I’m not sure how you would achieve that.
    
    Maybe ask Chicken Little or James Shaw. They seem to know.
    
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    December 1, 2023 11:36am
    - Ian Boag
      
      you would need global temperatures to rise by about 80°C
      
      Wot?
      
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      December 1, 2023 1:12pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Facepalm
        Who’s going to tell him
        
        3 1
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        December 1, 2023 3:01pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        Did you fail high school science Ian? It appears so.
        
        Ice melts at >0°C.
        
        The question that Ehlana posed was “Is there actually enough water locked up in the ice caps to raise sea levels by 40 ft?”
        
        My statement was “If ALL the ice in the ice caps were to melt…”
        
        The base ice is at -80°C, so to melt ALL the ice would require a delta temperature change of +80°C to ensure all the ice was to melt.
        
        In some areas it is -100°C, other areas an average of 60°C. So 80°C is a minimum.
        
        https://nsidc.org/news-analyses/news-stories/new-study-explains-antarcticas-coldest-temperatures
        
        The level 40ft, is a mute point, in regards worrying about drowning as you will be baked like a Christmas Turkey long before you have to consider moving to higher ground.
        
        Do keep up.
        
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        December 1, 2023 5:52pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Glaciers recede for a different reason now.
  /s
  
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  December 1, 2023 11:52am
Benedict Yu

The media is so biased it is now comical. Two stories today.

“Labour Outlines its Battle Plan”

“His first 20 MPs have about three times more ministerial experience than National, New Zealand First and ACT combined, he boasted, with a lightness in contrast with his days on the campaign trail.” 😅

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/133378749/labour-outlines-battle-plan-as-nationalled-government-promises-to-get-to-work

Then we have wailing about government agencies rebranding to English names.

“The uncertainty around how much it would cost to rebrand government departments”

“The cost to rebrand more than a dozen government departments, which primarily use te reo Māori names, could be “millions”, according to marketing experts.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/133369391/the-uncertainty-around-how-much-it-would-cost-to-rebrand-government-departments

I don’t recall the media running stories over the last three years wailing about the cost of agencies rebranding to use Maori names.

The Government should instruct all agencies that the costs of ‘rebranding’ should come out of their staffing budgets. I’m sure that suddenly the rebranding won’t cost that much. 🤡
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December 1, 2023 8:02am
- Dougal10
  
  Makes you wonder of the labour party actually own stuff. It would explain how cindys bestie got a job there after burning her previous jobs down .
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:11am
  - imalwaysright
    
    I think it is owned by the stuff staff Doug, says it all doesn’t it.
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:00am
    - Jack5
      
      Repeating a link from last night …
      
      Karl du Fresne, a former editor of the Wellington daily, the “Dominion” (buried by Stuff in the “Post”), says:
      
      ” … the mainstream media are openly at war with an elected government. This has never happened before in my lifetime, and to my knowledge never in New Zealand history.”
      
      As for those today dismissing a Stuff scribbler wondering about the costs of demoting Maori-language names of Government departments …
      
      Consider the costs of changing the priority order of the names of a department to first, English, the language of 95 per cent of the people, with the cost of forcing that 95 per cent to learn department names in a language they don’t understand let alone speak or write. The present change is infinitely small in comparison.
      
      The cost of restoring English to first priority is also near-infinitely small compared with the cost in departmental money and time of endless karakia – prayers in a religion of fewer than 5 per cent of the nation.
      
      Karl du Fresne on the media waging war on the government newly and democratically elected by the people:
      
      https://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2023/11/the-medias-war-on-new-government.html
      
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      December 1, 2023 10:47am
      - Paulus
        
        Well, I voted for a Change and we appear to be getting it.
        We have never had a three party coalition in New Zealand (not some made up recent name) before.
        
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        December 1, 2023 2:08pm
    - Matt Long
      
      But we don’t know who the financial backers are.
      
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      December 1, 2023 11:00am
      - Jack5
        
        Matt, where Stuff’s backing comes from is pertinent.
        
        Its newspapers carry bugger all advertising these days, and the State subsidy must be insufficient.
        
        Stuff has very few tangible assets, the sort banks rely on when they lend to businesses, and Stuff, like other companies, needs working capital. Surely the banksters wouldn’t be supplying cash on a dream of new riches coming from Internet sources?
        
        Consider Stuff’s support for Maorification and examples like the notorious apology to Maori of the Christchurch Press for its coverage over more than a century. Could Maori interests be helping Stuff?
        
        The NZ Herald is a different story. It’s owned by NZME, a company listed on the NZ Stock Exchange. Ultimately, the market will fix the Herald.
        
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        December 1, 2023 11:22am
- Homas
  
  The most farcical aspect of the original rebrand is that even if you were fluent in the relevant lexicon, it wouldn’t lead you to the function of the dept in question, you’d still have to play the proverbial/metaphorical guessing game.
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:19am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Hom,
    Great point. What self respecting intelligent maori would assume that his car rego should be paid to an organisation whose branding specifies native canoes !
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:04am
- Scott
  
  Although the new government is not delivering everything we may want, for example they still go along with the climate change fiasco, it’s off to a very good start.
  
  When we look at the 49 points of what they want to achieve in the next 100 days we see a pretty good list.
  Let’s take their top 11 actions –
  1. Repeal the Clean Car Discount scheme by December 31, 2023.
  2. Ban the use of cell phones in schools.
  3. Introduce legislation to remove the Auckland Fuel Tax.
  4. Repeal Fair Pay Agreement legislation.
  5. Stop “blanket speed limit reductions” and start work on replacing the Land Transport Rule: Setting of Speed Limits 2022.
  6. Stop central government work on the Auckland Light Rail project.
  7. Start work to improve the quality of regulation.
  8. Introduce legislation to repeal the Water Services Entities Act 2022, also known as the Three Waters reforms
  9. Introduce legislation to ban gang patches, stop gang members gathering in public, and stop known gang offenders from communicating with one another.
  10. Give police greater powers to search gang members for firearms and make gang membership an aggravating factor at sentencing.
  11. Introduce legislation to disestablish the Māori Health Authority.
  
  That’s a great list, I don’t see anything there I would disagree with. They are rolling back the entire agenda of the previous government. This is the change people voted for.
  
  Lastly one can feel joy at the leftist tears – this from Marama Davidson – “Now more than ever we need to stand up for Tiriti-centric Aotearoa that works for everyone,” she said in a statement.
  No we don’t. We want our country back and we appear to be getting it.
  And I for one say – Amen.
  
  https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/11/29/prime-minister-luxon-reveals-his-49-actions-for-first-100-days/
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:19am
  - pdm
    
    Scott said:
    `No we don’t. We want our country back and we appear to be getting it.
    And I for one say – Amen.’
    
    I say – the sooner the better!!!
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:03am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      ““Now more than ever we need to stand up for Tiriti-centric Aotearoa that works for everyone,””
      
      Along with climate change it is a substitute for religion. In 50 years (hopefully sooner) everyone will look back on Marama the same way we look back at Ptolemy, the Egyptian astronomer,
      mathematician, and geographer who decided that the earth was the centre of the universe.
      
      https://www.britannica.com/biography/Ptolemy
      
      Sadly that view prevailed for 1400 years.
      
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      December 1, 2023 9:41am
      - kowtow
        
        Greek.
        
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        December 1, 2023 3:13pm
    - MCōs
      
      I’ve heard slogans about getting our country back, but I’ve never understood what that means.
      
      Likewise what’s the definition of a gang patch?
      Obviously a jacket with the logo on the back, but what about tee shirts, for example? I’m sure those people will continually test the laws and there’s a lot of them and only so many coppers.
      
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      December 1, 2023 10:48am
  - JackRabbit
    
    “…we need to stand up for Tiriti-centric Aotearoa…”
    
    More like state-titi centric Aotearoa.
    
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    December 1, 2023 11:42am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Just one addendum. I actually think that the agency names are a secondary issue. I don’t care if Kainga Ora is Kainga Ora.
  
  The more important issue is communications. I frequently receive communications from government agencies that contain dozens of Maori terms and phrases that I need to Google because I do not know what they are. One recent email I received referred to New Zealand towns and regions by only their Maori names. I had to look them all up.
  
  Changing this practice will cost exactly zero.
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:21am
  - nathie
    
    I frequently receive communications from government agencies that contain dozens of Maori terms and phrases that I need to Google because I do not know what they are.
    
    Fully agree, this is the crux of the issue. When I receive similar emails and google the meaning of the inserted random Maori word or phrase, more often than not it brings up several different meanings/interpretations.
    
    In some odd instances the results showed a demeaning interpretation! Clearly the sender wasn’t intending to do so, but it also means one could be hesitant to reply back using such phrases because it could be taken as an insult. Particularly if using that phrase with a person of Maori heritage (as opposed to a woke civil servant) that understands Te Reo and could take real offence!
    
    And maybe have someone “cancelled”!
    
    So the moral of the story is don’t use Maori words and phrases if they don’t come naturally – it’s that simple! But somehow the likes of Labour when last in Govt didn’t give a damn. No wonder why their support plummeted!
    
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    December 1, 2023 8:47am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Why don’t you just send the letter back, stating you don’t speak Maori, and ask for it to be written fully in English ?
      
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      December 1, 2023 11:21am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    BU you should send the communications back to the relevant department and ask for it in English. I’m sure if you asked for it in Arabic they would find a translator to do it , at great cost of course, and you’d probably get an apology to boot.
    
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    December 1, 2023 8:57am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    BY – when I get those emails I don’t read them. I reply asking them to please address me in English. I don’t speak Maori and I have no desire to learn.
    
    This does not make me racist. End of story.
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:41am
  - alex Masterley
    
    As well as the use of maori terms in communication I am hoping that the new government will come down on the use of pronouns.
    A small thing but something that would please me no-end.
    
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    December 1, 2023 10:16am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Only need one pronoun. Starts with “F” and is used as a verb.
      
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      December 1, 2023 10:39am
- Swifty
  
  Two quick points:
  
  1. What a joke it is that after years and years of spectacularly failed predictions and forecasts by them, Labour now expects us to believe their predictions as to how National and friends will go in government.
  
  What possible reasons do we have to believe in their powers of prophecy? I say exactly none. I say in fact, believe the opposite and you’re more likely to be right.
  
  2. You can dramatically reduce the cost of a rebrand by issuing new hard copy collateral only when existing stocks run out.
  
  I see this wasn’t mentioned. What a surprise.
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:28am
  - wsk12345
    
    Yes – they can do all the website and other electronic changes immediately with letterhead, envelopes, business cards etc amended as they come up for renewal. Not that hard. There isn’t even a lot of paper based stuff in most orgs these days so most letterhead and even business cards can be updated immediately as they are used electronically.
    
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    December 1, 2023 11:50am
- nathie
  
  “His first 20 MPs have about three times more ministerial experience than National, New Zealand First and ACT combined, he boasted
  
  More hypocrisy from Hipkins & Labour. Has he forgotten the incoming 2017 Labour Govt largely did not have any previous Ministerial experience? (IIRC only David Parker and Damian O’Connor)??
  
  Also, judging by the bombastic headline/byline, you’d also think that Stuff would have their own sub editors to write the headline/byline rather than leave it to the personal whims of their reporter staff? If so how unprofessional of Stuff.
  
  As a result not gonna click on it!
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:33am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    You could be more experienced running marathons but if you continually came last it’s hardly an advantage
    
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    December 1, 2023 12:10pm
- David Garrett
  
  I don’t recall the media running stories over the last three years wailing about the cost of agencies rebranding to use Maori names
  
  Quite so Bene…but I find the whole idea of a government department/agency “rebranding” as ridiculous. The NZTA is not Coca Cola or a washing powder. Giving a government department or agency a different name is precisely that: giving it a different name.
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:35am
  - Ruahine
    
    David you are quite about useless rebranding of Government Departments.
    In the recent round of ‘rebranding’ however it is something more devious. It is Propaganda at our expense.
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:17am
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  Yes, we’re being reminded daily of the extent of institutional capture by the neo-Marxist ideology that was indulged by the Key government, and vigorously promoted by the Ardern-Hipkins kakistocracy. Media luvvies are worried about the cost of rebranding government departments under the “English first” policy, but I dont recall them raising the same objection to the Ardern-Hipkins government’s rebranding. Now the Australasian College of Physicians has waded in to criticize the new government’s decision to axe the Maaori health authority. The new government’s resolve will be tested sorely, but they must hold their nerve.
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:39am
  - JohnRidd
    
    Well said, Your Holiness.
    
    However, I don’t think many people are aware how much this is about neo-Marxism.
    
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    December 1, 2023 2:25pm
- Grumpy Silver Haired Female
  
  My naive belief is that they can revert to branding that existed before the rebranding. Am I wrong? Nothing else has changed, addresses, urls and phone numbers won’t have changed.
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:39am
  - Blog-aholic
    
    urls never changed because the internet conventions would not cope with:
    
    http://www.hekauparehemanaakihewhakaora.tekawanatangaoaotearoa.ao
    
    or as it always has been http://www.acc.govt.nz
    
    case rested!
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:29am
- peterwn
  
  An employee asked the boss why he did not get a pay rise indicating that he had 20 years experience. The boss replied ‘you have one years experience twenty times over’ (teachers unions think that a teacher with 20 years experience is always a better teacher than one with one or two years experience). Surely if the Labour MP’s were such a talented bunch, Labour would have won the just been election hands down.
  Carmel Sepuloni (Chris Hipkin’s deputy) said she was ashamed and embarrassed of what National plans in the welfare and other areas. Well, she ought to be ashamed and embarrassed that she and her fellow ex-Ministers and MP’s were unable to win a winnable election. A while back I compared the Labour and National leaders to the hare and the tortoise. Since then Labour figuratively took a nap and woke up (putting Chris Hipkins in charge) while National steadily plodded to victory.
  There is a warning for National MP’s – take nothing for granted – you are dependent on an army of loyal volunteers and the wider centre-right/ centre-left community for victory in 2026. While Ministers wield power over their departments, the volunteers and supporters effectively wield power over the Ministers.
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:47am
- hullkiwi
  
  Benedict, the bias of the media is relentless. Especially when you consider the reporting that comes from TVNZ, Stuff & RNZ. But remember the media and the left want us to believe that there was no political influence (or dare I write perception of bribery) in the administration of the PIJF or the money spent on public service advertising between March 2020 & today.
  
  That all said, I then give you Tova’s podcast
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301018348/tova-podcast-national-will-have-deaths-of-8000-kiwis-on-their-hands–labour
  
  A perfect example of stringing together a podcast to condemn the government & tarnish ministers without any evidence or facts. But a podcast using so called “experts” to garner sympathy, sling mud, and encourage moral outrage with :
  1. Phoney modelling, Hendy would be proud of Verrall’s “constrained” model;
  2. Another clone of Baker slinging terms such as lack of “moral courage”. That lady overlooks what a) Chloe’s referendum in 2020 would have done if it had passed, or b) what happened in the US with the 19th amendment, or c) all the arguments about liberalisation of drug laws, or d) what is already happening with the programme to achieve Smoke Free Aotearoa 2025″.
  
  As they say, don’t let the facts get in the way of a good mud slinging by the left at new government. Given this one example, the audacity of Tova et al with their faux outrage about Winston’s statement is breathtaking to behold!
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:57am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Also no mention – none – of how the black market would take off if the Government took all the nicotine out of cigarettes. When I was addicted to nicotine more than 20 years ago, I certainly would have resorted to buying illegal cigarettes if they were not available legally. That is the nature of addiction.
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:22am
    - Stu2
      
      There seems to have been very little realisation of what the consequences of smoke free were about to be.
      
      And so predictable.
      
      Gangs one, health system and smokers nil.
      
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      December 1, 2023 10:59am
      - JohnRidd
        
        I agree completely. It is also worth noting that tobacco is a ridiculously easy plant to grow.
        
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        December 1, 2023 2:30pm
    - wsk12345
      
      And I would much rather the state received the excise on cigarettes than the gangs getting g it. Not like the gangs are going to pay the additional healthcare costs associated with smoking (and yes I know we apparently over recover on smokes).
      
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      December 1, 2023 11:54am
      - MCōs
        
        From what I understand vapes are already filling the void
        A packet of smokes costs $3-$7 in Thailand and vapes are illegal. I suspect Big Tobacco aims to keep it that way by bribing the appropriate politicians
        Not only is tobacco expensive in NZ, but so is P, from what I believe.
        Maybe black market cigarettes aren’t as profitable as illegal drugs.
        
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        December 1, 2023 1:37pm
- Cassandra
  
  My response to the claim about Labour MPs’ experience is “Alexander’s mule”. Chippy might like to reflect on the fact that his Party in government couldn’t organise anything (the proverbial f*** in a brothel). The current government will be excellent – motivated and competent. Part of Labour’s problem was that it was hijacked by racists.
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:39am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Cassandra – maybe they should give Tory a call, I believe she’s not bad at organising things…..
    
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    December 1, 2023 11:02am
- RoboRob
  
  Well you are reading Stuff. Just stop 🙂
  
  The only way to stop this sort of ‘lobbying’ in place of reporting is to remove the reward. Less clicks means less money for Stuff. They know exactly how many clicks and reads they have. If they see a drop off they have the choice of addressing the issue or going broke. If they choose to go broke, they will make room for another organisation to take their place.
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:41am
- rouppe
  
  When people did complain about the cost of rebranding to Maori names, it was dismissed as inconsequential.
  
  Otago University said in July their rebrand would cost a million
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:57am
  - Clyde
    
    The University of Otago should be in the middle of the sights of the Minister of Education. Chose to be a “treaty led organisation” and promptly recruited hordes of academic staff to turn once-excellent departments into a load of woke crap. As an example, just look at that ex-Green co-leader Turia who now has a cushy job in the Law Faculty teaching maori law. Don’t know if this includes utu, cannabalism etc, but suspect not. The University then commissioned a telephone pole which was carved up a bit, put in place, covered up until the dust settled a bit and have still not disclosed the price. Prime area to start saving some costs. Let me at it!!!
    
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    December 1, 2023 10:22am
- argie bargie
  
  It appears the media companies don’t know which side their bread is buttered on. I understand the PIJF isn’t taking any more applications, but is paying out for a while longer, surely the new media minister can stop those payments, and surely ministers of other departments can stop future department advertising (which I think is a waste of taxpayers money anyway). Then the media companies will be like any other business that runs out of money, and call in the liquidators. The local media have become so biased they are not worth reading, and we would be no worse off if they were to close. There will always be somebody with new ideas to take their place and find other sources of funding.
  
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  December 1, 2023 10:47am
  - Paulus
    
    Remember that the Labour Government gave some $120 million to the media for advertising see TVNZ etc daily as it still continues. – see ACC for cutting down road deaths.
    
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    December 1, 2023 2:17pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Hipkins tried to say Nats had no ex ministers, they have at least 5 NZF has definitely 2 not sure about Marcroft of the farmer from Lawerence, and Seymour has been an under secretary, I am sure the way Standford was able to skewer her opponent in any portfolio will see her well advanced than any on the left, snd Bishop was there when Key was PM I bet he was well schooled by ministers
  
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  December 1, 2023 10:56am
- Stellaboxer
  
  The media are so biased now they really can’t see it themselves. They have long past the point when their personal political preferences leaked into their copy, now they’re so fired up that they see it as their job to scream at the nation how badly they executed their voting choices and bring down the government for us. Under Arderns regime we all got used to being called racist, misogynists, oppressive colonialists and having near on 45% of the population negated because of the unalterable fact that they were of a certain skin colour a certain biological sex and sexual orientation. Now on top of this we’re having to put up with them screaming at us that the choices we made at the ballot box were so stupid and I’ll informed that we’ve voted in a gang of far right genocidal thugs. So extreme is this new government that they even dared say that the media were bribed! I’m so comforted that they’re there to correct our plebeian misunderstanding of the democratic process.
  
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  December 1, 2023 12:31pm
- wairarapapaul
  
  For printed items, all logos, template files, brochures, posters will be on file. Just revert back. If there’s changes to a brochure for instance, the changes can include reverting back to a previous version. Simple.
  
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  December 1, 2023 1:55pm
- JimBobJoe
  
  “His first 20 MPs have about three times more ministerial experience than National, New Zealand First and ACT combined, he boasted, with a lightness in contrast with his days on the campaign trail.”
  
  All that experience that couldn’t deliver a 10th of the 100,000 Kiwibuild houses they promised in the 2017 election campaign. Couldn’t even deliver a viable plan to deliver the 100,000 houses un the Kiwibuild Scheme
  
  If your experience is years of big talk and no delivery then that experience is worth 2/10ths of SFA
  
  Hipkins the King of Nothing and delivering only crap…
  
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  December 1, 2023 6:53pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Shane MacGowan RIP.

Shame, could have been a good Mr Mayor for Tory.
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December 1, 2023 8:02am
- slightlyrighty
  
  “Another Christmas Day, in the Drunk Tank”?
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:27am
- mogg
  
  MacGowan was the modern day Brendan Behan.
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:30am
- NothingLeft
  
  Amazed he lasted as long as he did. He was a shambling advertisement for the destructive power of drugs. Still, made some great music.
  
  A pair of brown eyes:
  https://youtu.be/jlfr1rCByM8
  
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  December 1, 2023 10:08am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    They said that about Smith from the Cure, but he still going, and we seen him in Auckland a few years back
    
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    December 1, 2023 11:03am
- alex Masterley
  
  He is a loss to the Irish music scene. Looks like the execesses of his youth finaly caught up with him.
  
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  December 1, 2023 10:21am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Sweden’s gun-murder rate was 30 times that of London in 2022.

“While these areas (crime hotspots) do have high proportions of residents born outside Europe and second- and third-generation immigrants, they have been shaped by socioeconomic circumstances over a long period of time, a factor which experts say is of far greater significance to the current situation”.

Ducking and weaving to avoid the phrase ‘ethnic gangs’, while Islam not mentioned at all.

Only in the Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/30/how-gang-violence-took-hold-of-sweden-in-five-charts
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December 1, 2023 8:04am
- David Garrett
  
  they have been shaped by socioeconomic circumstances over a long period of time,..
  
  What utter bullshit. How exactly can a Muslim teenager, born in Sweden or some other foolish Western country which has taken their parents in, have been “shaped by socio-economic circumstances” of the sandy shithole from which their parents fled?
  
  As you say, dancing around trying to avoid the unpalatable truth
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:38am
  - Dudley Quaffquaff
    
    Seems to me that the “they” after the comma in the quoted sentence refers not to individuals but to the “areas (crime hotspots)” mentioned in the first part of the sentence. An area most certainly can be shaped by socio-economic circumstances over a long period of time.
    
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    December 1, 2023 8:48am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Islam has a major ‘little princes’ problem, where boys are brought up with special place and privilege within families – superior status and lower standards of behaviour compared to sisters and eventually mothers, that encourages narcissism and looking down upon others as an acceptable mode of behaviour.
    
    That and various religious exhortations towards bad ‘othering’ treatment of infidels sets more of them up to be bad citizens of multi-ethnic states.
    
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    December 1, 2023 10:14am
  - peterwn
    
    NZ is another foolish Western country where this bunch of judges let some guy into NZ as a ‘refugee’ after he flushed his passport down the gurgler on his way to NZ.
    He is now in Koléa Prison (a typical crappy and overcrowded prison) after the Algerian authorities charged him with subversion.
    If he tries the ‘shaped by socioeconomic circumstances over a long period of time’ or similar crap the judge’s eyes will just glaze over.
    
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    December 1, 2023 12:05pm
- kowtow
  
  Don’t mention the hand grenades.
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:08am
- imalwaysright
  
  I remember a few years ago Malmo had several hundred car fires in one night.
  Swedes have effectively relinquished the city to illegal immigrants.
  Ireland is seeing the same problem developing .
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:10am
  - Blog-aholic
    
    The fight back in Ireland is happeing. In Sweden they just laid back.
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:31am
    - kowtow
      
      There has been for a very very long time a violent underclass of criminals and unemployable drug addicts and ne’er do wells associated with the inner city and other council housing there .
      
      I wouldn’t read too much into that looting spree .
      
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      December 1, 2023 10:24am
  - MCōs
    
    Ireland has about the same number of illegal immigrants as NZ
    The rioting in Dublin the other day wasn’t caused by illegal immigrants, but local people complaining about immigrants.
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:36am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Specifically an Armenian immigrant stabbing 5 people including 5 and 6 year old children outside their school.
      But “local people complaining about immigrants” sounds better I suppose.
      
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      December 1, 2023 10:25am
      - NothingLeft
        
        Algerian. One 5 year old has died. Armenians are mostly christian, and so less inclined to go on murderous rampages.
        
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        December 1, 2023 11:22am
      - kowtow
        
        nothingleft
        
        yes the Armenians have been subjected to yet another literal genocide , ethnic cleansing in the last couple of months , specifically ousted from Nakorno karabak ( spelling?) by the Azerbaijanis .
        Potentially Turkey is again involved .
        
        Where’s the outrage , where’s the commentary , the “news” coverage ,the weekly marches .
        
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        December 1, 2023 1:15pm
      - MCōs
        
        There were anti immigrant protests in Ireland before the stabbings
        
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        December 1, 2023 2:03pm
      - Jack5
        
        As posters “NothingLeft” and “Kowtow” point out, the terrorist in Ireland was not Armenian. He was an Algerian with Irish citizenship.
        
        The poor bloody Armenians. As Christians, they are again under threat from Muslims – this time persecuted by people from neighbouring Azerbaijan. Thousands of Armenians have fled from a disputed territory seized by Azeris.
        
        In 1915-1916, Turks of the Ottoman Empire killed up to two million Armenians while Turkey was ethnically cleansing itself of Christians such as Armenians, Asssyrians – and the Greeks who for thousands of years had lived in coastal enclaves.
        
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        December 1, 2023 2:38pm
  - lifesgood
    
    Malmo is ghastly. I was there a couple of years ago, hardly saw a fair skinned person and the people I did see, looked middle eastern and glowered and sneered at me. It felt very unsafe and I couldn’t get out of the place quick enough.
    
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    December 1, 2023 1:11pm
I remember when

Note to the media.
If it has in anyway influenced what you reported, no matter how small, you have been bribed.
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December 1, 2023 8:05am
- Philview
  
  The media are now running stories that New Zealand is an international embarrassment over changes to smoking legislation. Last year Jacinda Ardern was condemned around the world for her speech attacking free speech. The NZ media ignored the whole story. This year Chris Hipkins was mocked around the world for his mumbling definition of a woman. Once again the NZ failed to disclose that it was an international news story. Global headlines about the NZ science curriculum and spat with top international scientists largely downplayed by the NZ media. Whatever the incentive the NZ media were protecting the last government. Strangely they were happy to report the downfall of certain Labour MPs.
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:41am
  - plc
    
    Or you can go to the Telegraph:
    
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/30/new-zealand-leaving-woke-britain-ardern-in-wake/
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:15am
    - alex Masterley
      
      Great article. Perhaps our media should read it.
      
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      December 1, 2023 10:22am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    There is no change to smoking legislation, it’s the status quo, just not Labours simply banning people
    
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    December 1, 2023 12:04pm
  - Paulus
    
    Firstly we should ban Vapes NOW !
    I understand however that the shops and wholesalers are of non New Zealand births.
    Thus also applies to Grog Shops as same groupings.
    
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    December 1, 2023 2:22pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Send that note to Chippie as well. Maybe include a definition of the word “Bribe.”
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:09am
Warren

It doesn’t matter how you lookat Labours line up in Parliament that Leader Chris Hipkins announced yesterday as it is still weak and out of its depth.
The media keep saying the Labour Leader has a plan that no one else can see and if relying on the bullies he has returned to his caucusit shows he hasn’t learn anything from the dubbing he recieved at the last Election, and if you look how that ended up with the Labour Leader in tears and annoucing he had a new partner I think most of n New Zealander’s were surprised that he was more interested in his own life than having a substantial argument to why Labour should have been the Government for a third term.
So by giving bullies like Willie Jackson, Kerien McNulty and Ginny Anderson positions to counter the Coalition Government he has endorsed what sort of opposition Labour intends to be for the next Three years they still have no plan and a Leader that is weak and thinks more about himself than putting a plan together to become the next Government, you have to have visionandability to be Prime Minister andChris Hipkins has already failed once and hasn’t learned by his mistakes.
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December 1, 2023 8:12am
- Vinicius
  
  Former Labour Cabinet Minister Iain Lees-Galloway told Mike Hosking that the line-up seems to be based on talent and future prospects.
  
  Really!
  
  https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/ian-lees-galloway-former-labour-cabinet-minister-on-labours-new-front-bench-line-up/
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:52am
  - RoboRob
    
    I just about wet my pants.
    
    I think Chippies picks are sensible given the circumstances, they have zero new ‘talent’ from the last election so it makes sence to keep the people who have experience and insider knowledge of the portfolios. That said, ‘future prospects’ is laughable. These people are place holders until (and if) Labour get fresh blood.
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:45am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    The three worst ministries under the previous damaging regime, Health, Education and police, all three retain the useless ministers of the past, but they all received lifts up the regimes numbers
    
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    December 1, 2023 12:08pm
- kowtow
  
  I was wondering which one in the lineup behind him will be the knifeman . My money’s on McAnulty. There was a rather cold expression there.
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:12am
  - NothingLeft
    
    He’s a nasty wee man. Screwed over his Irish ex-wife (that seems to have been mostly cleansed from internet now) and dirty with regard to Sharma Drama.
    
    Those skeletons might make it hard for him to be a leader – paints easy targets on him.
    
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    December 1, 2023 10:19am
  - Beach Haven expat
    
    There is something of the night about him
    
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    December 1, 2023 6:29pm
- Local Miller
  
  Maybe he was bullied into giving Willie Jackson, Kerien McNulty and Ginny Anderson positions of prominence in his shadow caucus.
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:18am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  The three worst ministries under the previous damaging regime, Health, Education and police, all three retain the useless ministers of the past, but they all received lifts up the regimes numbers
  
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  December 1, 2023 12:08pm
imalwaysright

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/three-waters-107m-software-contract-should-be-probed-says-gentrack/K7ZJINM6MFCMVB3G4T3RKZICSQ/

Unfortunately this is paywalled. Some concern about awarding contracts related to 3 waters.
Does anyone know what this is about.
I speculate that this is the tip of the corruption iceberg that threatens to sink New Zealand.
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December 1, 2023 8:14am
- Grumpy Silver Haired Female
  
  The tendering process was closed and the contract was awarded to a company used by Auckland’s Watercare is the gist.
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:43am
  - Dudley Quaffquaff
    
    Contracts should only be awarded to tenderers that neither we nor anybody we know has used before?
    
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    December 1, 2023 10:50am
    - JimBobJoe
      
      If a tender was closed (in this case to two potential suppliers) then the issue is the value of contract and a potential breach of Government procurement rules.
      
      How was the closed tender list arrived at? Was a RFI process run and an initial screening to generate the closed tender list? Or did the 3 Waters guys just do a market scan pick the closed tender list?
      
      INFOR is an interesting final choice… I wonder if the talked to other Government agencies about what INFOR was like to deal with? I heard on the gravevine a few years ago they were problematic…..
      
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      December 1, 2023 10:24pm
- peterwn
  
  May be just ‘sour grapes’. I had to deal with this sort of thing in my previous job where an unsuccessful tenderer cries foul (generally when the tender did not meet the specification or there were capability doubts with the lowest tender)..
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:14am
  - RoboRob
    
    Thats what I was thinking too.
    
    If one were to look for issues they should start with the ‘Maori’ agencies and their awarding of contracts to family and friends, often with reciporical hand backs. But of course, asking the question is racisim.
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:49am
    - imalwaysright
      
      R
      Yes, the invoicing for non existent goods and services would be a starting point for an audit.
      The government should ask for all financial records from any organisation implicated in nepotism .
      
      I would like to know where is the $950,000,000 adern gave to “maori” for their “covid helf response ” on day one of the covid scam.
      
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      December 1, 2023 10:36am
      - Paulus
        
        What audits ?
        Maori never had them anyway.
        
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        December 1, 2023 2:24pm
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Closed tender of only two though Peter – how was that list arrived at and was it done in compliance with All of Government Procurement Rules?
    
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    December 1, 2023 10:25pm
I remember when

Dr Michael John Schmidt: Poisoned pill – Te Whata Ora: Bassett, Brash & Hide.
I remember when I used to read articles like this and have been wondering where.
Oh!. That’s right, in the mainstream media.
Now derelict in their duty.
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December 1, 2023 8:14am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  He provides a list of jobs (27) that will be in the $200,000+ salary
  Te Whatu Ora’s HR approach and objectives have been politically motivated right from its inception. The opportunity exists to fill every single senior HR role with ideologically identical commissars.
  
  If you decide to spend an additional $5.4 million on a health department driven by ideology, keep in mind that the next 27 roles will each cost $200,000 or more per year.
  
  The money is not going towards more doctors or nurses; it is going towards HR political programs.
  
  https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/dr-michael-john-schmidt-poisoned-pill-te-whatu-ora
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:33am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Remember Maggy who was the Chief Executive of the new organisation, until he shot himself in the foot so spectacularly?
    
    Is it therefore, any surprise that senior roles in the organisation were political appointments, who would follow ideological dictates instead of ensuring NZ’s health system can in fact deliver a health service for all New Zealanders.
    
    The irony to the above, you are now getting medical practitioners speaking out about why things are failing at an operational level in the country’s hospitals (refer this morning’s am Show website).
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:09am
Clown

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-council-looking-to-move-from-weekly-to-fortnightly-rubbish-collections/4RZYTWWCI5DLLJCZWTK6F4YPV4/

Sorry if this has been posted previously, but this is an outrage of the highest order. This will only lead to even more illegal dumping and will cause outbreaks of parasites especially during summer months. Seriously, they need to stop cutting what little services we have in an attempt to create their idealistic little world. It will backfire.
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December 1, 2023 8:14am
- Ghost
  
  This is normal, doesn’t lead to problems. Our green bin which is garden and kitchen waste goes out weekly. Red bin which is household rubbish goes out fortnightly in a rotation with the yellow and blue bin recycling and glass. No increased dumping here, no outbreaks of parasites.
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:26am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Ghost, look at how many bins you are putting out, and the level of frequency. Then add in how many trips you make to tips or waste recycling/transfer centres. Guess what for most households their level of waste does not decrease, they are just sorting the waste for the various council collections.
    
    Behind this plan is dogma over logic, and it is not only Auckland, it is endemic in local government agencies around the developed world. At the core is a lack of space for land fill, so the message is “help stop climate change by reducing waste.” Great idea, however, nearly everything we purchase has a single use waste element to it, so how do you cut out household waste, you make it someone else’s problem.
    
    Even those who do virtue signalling exercises of trying to reduce their rubbish are transferring there waste or using methods that are equalling damaging to the environment (e.g. disposable nappies versus cloth nappies – the processes to clean & dry nappies in winter are not virtuous).
    
    Each NZ waste authority have waste management plans, most were written 2010 to 2014. Many councils updated their documents with TeReofication, but like the previous documents they were high on ideals about reducing waste, but no understanding about the sources of waste or how to dispose of it.
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:47am
  - Paulus
    
    Green and Red bins in Tauranga for some years and works well once it got started !
    Plus food scraps and another for bottles.
    
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    December 1, 2023 2:28pm
- Grumpy Silver Haired Female
  
  I don’t agree. We don’t need to put out our red bin every week. What with recycling bins, food waste bins etc, the red bin loading has reduced enormously.
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:47am
  - Paulus
    
    Have you seen the minimum price of your local tip – frightening unless you have tons.
    
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    December 1, 2023 2:29pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  It a disgusting idea!
  One only has to pass thru some of the less affluent suburbs to see empty bins left out on the street for days on end. Only being taken in just prior to the next collection day.
  
  God only knows what they do with their stinky smelly rubbish in the intervening period?
  
  Imagine what parts of the city would be like if they only had to take them in fortnightly 🙁
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:20am
  - Scooter
    
    Well you just have to look at Rome and their rubbish problems and the feral rooting pigs it attracts.
    
    https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/05/18/how-rome-s-rubbish-problem-is-attracting-wild-boar-into-the-italian-capital
    
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    December 1, 2023 10:15am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Another idiot Council idea to cover the lack of use of the food scraps bin. We don’t use it. Food scraps go down the food waste disposal – that is what is is for. Just waiting for the day Auckland Council bans the sales of waste disposers. They will do it, rather than admit the scraps bin is a silly idea.
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:21am
  - MCōs
    
    You can do what you like. The council doesn’t care
    We’ve never had a knock on the door because we only put the recycle bin out every six weeks or so.
    BTW
    You’re still paying for it. $80 per annum I believe
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:46am
  - thirteenstars
    
    The little green scraps bin? Idiot idea. I’ve walked down streets where many of those bins have their lids open, have blown over, and are generally not fit for use. Not allowed to use a liner so the bin gets filthy.
    
    I used to live in an area that had a medium-sized wheeled blue bin for glass, bottles, jars. The bin had no lid, and a small hole in the bottom, which must have been to let the water out that no lid allowed in. It didn’t stop the leaves and other natural detritus from getting in, though. Nutty idea and design. Best application I saw for that bin was at a party where it was filled up with ice and several dozen beer and wine bottles were stuffed into it as a mobile drinks chiller. As the ice melted it went out the hole.
    
    And it’s always a little creepy to see a bin inspector around with their warning stickers, tablet and long stick which they use to poke around in your rubbish to make sure you haven’t put the wrong stuff in the wrong bin.
    
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    December 1, 2023 12:39pm
    - ecco
      
      They supplied bin liners for the green compost bins.
      
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      December 1, 2023 4:56pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Living in Auckland; we have to pay a private company for rubbish bin collection, as do most in our not-new suburb.
  
  Recycling is complete bullshit. There’s no market for any of the stuff barring perhaps metals, it just ends up being landfilled.
  
  NZ needs waste-to-power incineration to cut down on unnecessary landfilling.
  
  A good way to do that to side-step Nimbys would be incineration barges where rubbish is sailed out away from coast and burned to make power and charge batteries that are discharged into grid when docked.
  
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  December 1, 2023 10:31am
  - imalwaysright
    
    There’s a waste fueled incinerator in the Copenhagen CBD. It generates electricity for surrounding buildings.
    Unless told, you wouldn’t know it was there .
    
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    December 1, 2023 1:31pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Thank goodness my rates aren’t helping to prop up
my Mayor’s health abuse.

I must admit I have a fairly jaundiced view of folks who pander to and play cover up for alcoholics and druggies….. It doesn’t help them in the long run.
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December 1, 2023 8:17am
- Scott
  
  What intrigues me is the blatant double standard in the coverage of the current and sitting mayor of Wellington and what she did last week. The media are falling over themselves to not really cover the story. The allegations are serious involving alcohol and, how can I put this, activities of a lewd nature. Sean Plunkett covers them on The Platform.
  
  Contrast this with the wall-to-wall outrage and coverage of Sam Uffindell which involved activities that happened when he was a teenager and a young adult 20 years ago.
  
  The difference is that Uffindell is a white man and has no woke points. The sitting mayor of Wellington is a Maori woman and so has many woke points.
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:25am
  - Blog-aholic
    
    woke and weak points…….
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:42am
  - RoboRob
    
    Totally agree. Remember the wall to wall coverage and outrage when Wayne Brown refused to take interviews for the first couple of weeks of his reign?
    
    Now imagine the media response if it was Brown not Tory with the drinking / behaviour problem. It certainly wouldn’t be ‘we need to provide him support and understanding’. The video would be leading the news rather then ‘video may exist’.
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:54am
  - Scooter
    
    Sean Plunket’s pod about Tory Whanau was the polar opposite of the MSM coverage, completely free from any bias or cover up. In fact from these descriptive words he used for her, dipsomaniac, fellatio, addict, booze hag, unless she sues you’d assume there’s some truth behind it.
    
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    December 1, 2023 10:30am
    - RoboRob
      
      Just watched it, very good. I now have an idea of what happened, although even Sean wasn’t clear with his comment ‘followed a man into the toilet’. Something may or may not have happened.
      
      Someone is working very hard to block the spread of this video. Reddit has plenty of posts that have been deleted related to this.
      
      I will add Sean is pretty safe here, dipsomaniac, addict and booze hag hag all relate to drunkenness, which she has publically admitted to. Fellatio was mentioned in the context of ‘it is claimed she performed fellatio’, so he hasn’t claimed it himself.
      
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      December 1, 2023 12:26pm
      - Beach Haven expat
        
        He’s still in danger of defamation proceedings by repeating the claim. The onus is on the publisher and without the video or an eye witness there is vulnerability.
        Now, whether Whanau would expose herself to being questioned on the stand is another consideration.
        I’ve read a fair bit on Twitter and I’ve yet to see anyone saying they have seen the video for a fact. There’s one person who said early on who said about the act and then it spiralled from there.
        The interesting thing is Whanau’s statement denying sexual activity in response to RNZ’s questions.
        
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        December 1, 2023 6:42pm
  - kowtow
    
    Compare and contrast the OTT coverage te media gave the Gore council business .
    
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    December 1, 2023 1:20pm
- nathie
  
  Former leftie mayor Justin Lester has been running interference for Ms Whanau.
  
  He says she’s doing a great job. Now I don’t care so much about the “rumors” about her (and they could be fake), but I do care if there is a civil defence emergency and the mayor is unable to think clearly when leading the response.
  
  Surprised that this important aspect didn’t seem to enter Lester’s head!
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:54am
  - Weinerpoop
    
    The rumours are true, there were multiple videos taken of it. The guy involved doesn’t want these getting out though but it’s only a matter of time
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:40am
    - RoboRob
      
      It is stunning that the media have managed to hide these videos to this point. Anyone with them want to post a link? I for one would like to know what exactly the issue is. All the media are reporting is an incident involving alcohol and men were present.
      
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      December 1, 2023 9:57am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I seriously doubt that any visiting delegation to Wellington will be in the dark about the videos.
        
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        December 1, 2023 12:46pm
  - cmm
    
    “but I do care if there is a civil defence emergency and the mayor is unable to think clearly when leading the response”
    
    The mayor should only play a figurehead role in any civil defence emergency. I don’t think they are really trained for the job of actually leading the response.
    
    Well party girls sure aren’t!
    
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    December 1, 2023 1:17pm
- plc
  
  Seems clear Whanua intends to stay in the role, hoping it goes away.
  
  What an embarrassment.
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:17am
  - imalwaysright
    
    She will have to be breath tested when she arrives at work and before every council meeting.
    She can fund the testing from her own pocket.
    If she fails a test then she should be sacked like anyone else.
    
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    December 1, 2023 1:37pm
    - Paulus
      
      Heard from some Councillors that she hardly ever attends Council Meetings but is involved by media screen appearance so she perhaps cannot be seen as pissed.
      
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      December 1, 2023 2:33pm
  - Beach Haven expat
    
    Look how that worked for Kiri
    
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    December 1, 2023 6:45pm
- Stellaboxer
  
  Maggy alcoholics are drug addicts . In fact if alcohol were introduced today it would likely be classified a class A drug.
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:22am
Maggie Pie

ANZ’s first post-election ‘Business-Confidence-Survey’ has it at the highest level since March 2018.

– ZB Breakfast

What does that tell you about Chippie-the-Chump and his ‘shadow cabinet’.
LOL!!
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December 1, 2023 8:27am
- Vinicius
  
  A wait with baited breath for 1News, Newshub, and RNZ to give this excellent news top billing on their news bulletins and online today.
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:37am
- Albie
  
  More like Shallow Cabinet if you ask me.
  
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  December 1, 2023 3:59pm
Vinicius

Karl du Fresne has an opinion piece over at The Platform entitled “The media’s war on the new government”

He writes in part:

“We are in an extraordinary situation where the mainstream media are openly at war with an elected government. This has never happened before in my lifetime, and to my knowledge never in New Zealand history.”

And

“Government ministers and MPs must understand that they don’t need to ingratiate themselves with their press gallery tormentors. They should remind themselves that having been elected, they have a moral legitimacy the media can never enjoy. No one voted for the members of the press gallery and they are accountable to no one.”

du Fresne in my view is correct in stating that some of the National ministers need to change their approach when they’re dealing with hostile media. Seymour, Peters and Shane Jones are all better at dealing with hostile media.

https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/the-medias-war-on-the-new-government
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December 1, 2023 8:31am
- Philview
  
  Unfortunately there are still many people who are unaware of the media agenda. Their strategy is clearly one of to bring the new government down or make it a one term government. This new Government has to get the economy ticking.
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:47am
- Colville
  
  I hope behind the scenes Government has been told to stop advertising spend with media… the bean counters will see cashflow falling off a cliff and raise the white flag !
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:10am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    I agree. Many undecided voters believe what the media tells them. That makes it very hard for National to win elections now. The last election should have been a landslide, given Labour’s six years of utter incompetence, but ended up being quite close.
    
    National should just cut them off. Give them no interviews and no government spending on advertising, let alone paying for content. Let them just curl up and die.
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:22am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Spot on. Trump style. “YOU ARE FAKE NEWS!”
      Then ignore them. Get the message out on social media.
      
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      December 1, 2023 11:11am
- Paulus
  
  Bollocks Karl, we vote for change, and that is what we are getting.
  Grow up !
  
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  December 1, 2023 2:34pm
Nukuleka

There can have been no incoming government in NZ history that has been greeted by so much negative media coverage. Those kiwis who voted for change can be left in no doubt that the mainstream media have a clear agenda to undermine and denigrate the coalition at every turn. It is to be hoped that Luxon, Seymour and Peters recognise the media’s desire to push Hipkins’ ‘coalition of chaos’ trope and that the three of them have the nous and ability to present a united front. A challenge, I know, given that each will want to maintain their party’s individual identity, but collective unity in the face of such concerted media opposition is imperative!
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December 1, 2023 8:36am
- Vinicius
  
  I recall back when Maggie Thatcher was PM of the UK she fought a day-in day-out battle with a very hostile media for years and was still able to reach the voters and win multiple elections.
  
  Peters doesn’t need lessons in this but some of the National mob do.
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:20am
- RoboRob
  
  But, but,but political reporters have been talking about how new government or leaders always get a honeymoon period. Seems this now only applies for people on the left of politics. Hell even Chippie got it when he became PM and he he been in parliament / government for 5 years.
  
  I wait for puff pieces on Luxons personal hobbies and stories about his lovely wife and family.
  
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  December 1, 2023 10:01am
  - Flossie
    
    I think the openly snide, insulting and childish comments by Labour, and particularly Hipkins, would be the worst I’ve ever heard in my life. A modicum of respect for this country’s government should be expected. He is disparaging us internationally – a country he hopes to regain the lead of in three years.
    
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    December 1, 2023 10:20am
cmm

Unborn baby dies and the cops are looking at a manslaughter charge.

Yet every day a whole lot of unborn babies are aborted under the guise of not being a person and just being just a bunch of unwanted cells – like having a haircut.

I struggle to square this circle. It seems a massive inconsistency in the law.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/unborn-baby-dies-after-woman-struck-during-street-race-east-auckland-police-charge-man-with-manslaughter/ZNU2NES6AZD6JOLVUX4ODAIKCQ/
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December 1, 2023 8:45am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  Many people voluntarily donate blood, some of them repeatedly, and yet I’m not allowed to help myself to any of yours.
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:57am
  - Colville
    
    The world is weird like that.
    
    Donate a kidney and you are a hero, try to donate 10 and they get all suspicious and grumpy!!
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:13am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    This kind of argument relies on the assumption that the unborn child is the mother’s property. She can kill it if she wants to, but it is murder or manslaughter if anyone else kills it.
    
    This is a logically consistent position, just not a very moral one.
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:18am
    - cmm
      
      A manslaughter charge means that this baby is a person independent of the mother (ie. the baby died but the mother did not).
      If a person is the property of another person, then that is surely slavery.
      
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      December 1, 2023 11:29am
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      No; it relies on the assumption that the mother’s body is the mother’s property.
      
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      December 1, 2023 1:09pm
  - cmm
    
    How is donating blood in any way like causing a death?
    
    The point is that to charge someone with manslaughter then there has to be a death of a person.
    
    If I was to hurt you in a way that caused you to bleed, or held you down and stole a pint of your blood, then I might be charged with assault etc. But I would not be charged with manslaughter.
    
    It makes no sense that in one setting the law is interpreted that a baby inside a mother is a person and in another it is just an inconvenient bunch of the mother’s cells.
    
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    December 1, 2023 11:22am
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      Refusing to donate blood, or a kidney, or a bit of lung, etc, may lead to another’s death; and yet I have every right to refuse to help them, and you can’t make me do it.
      
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      December 1, 2023 1:08pm
- mandk
  
  We live in a world of perverted logic, cmm.
  
  Nowadays, a baby in the womb only has value if the mother wants it.
  
  If the mother doesn’t want it, the baby can be removed in the most barbaric fashion, as if it were some kind of nasty tumour. And no one bats an eyelid.
  
  I’ll be at the March for Life tomorrow, in Wellington, to stand up for the rights of the unborn. Will you be there?
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:58am
- NothingLeft
  
  Arguments regarding abortion are mostly pointless. Aside from believers in supernatural most agree that abortion in first trimester while not ideal is acceptable, second trimester if strong medical reason (mum’s health or congenital defects) up to point of out-of-womb viability where the fetus is granted full human rights. Believers in supernatural are a small minority in NZ so clearly the laws are not going to change.
  
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  December 1, 2023 10:40am
  - mandk
    
    ” … up to point of out-of-womb viability where the fetus is granted full human rights.”
    
    Sadly, this is untrue. Babies in the womb are not granted full human rights at any stage.
    
    It is legal to butcher and kill a baby in the womb virtually up to the point of natural birth at around 40 weeks. Out-of-womb viability starts at around 22 weeks, albeit with major medical support.
    
    The relatively light sentences for people guilty of infanticide also implies that babies are not even granted full human rights after birth. The killer of Baby Ru, for example, would not get the standard life sentence, if they are identified and tried.
    
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    December 1, 2023 11:20am
    - MCōs
      
      I wasn’t exactly sure what ’infanticide’ means in the NZ context so I looked it up
      It’s not as simple as you seem to imply
      https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/16.0/DLM329332.html
      Laura Dickason was found guilty of murder, not infanticide
      
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      December 1, 2023 3:03pm
Benedict Yu

This seems odd.

https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/12/01/why-did-ex-minister-kiri-allan-plead-not-guilty-to-charge/

Kiri Allan says she pleaded not guilty because she did not have access to a lawyer..

“A statement posted on Allan’s Instagram account said she requested to speak to a lawyer both immediately before and after her arrest.

Police did not allow her to and the charge resulted from her unwillingness to accompany the police without the ability to speak to a lawyer, the statement said.”

https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/12/01/why-did-ex-minister-kiri-allan-plead-not-guilty-to-charge/

Surely you don’t have a right to a lawyer when you are arrested. She is saying that she refused to accompany police from Oriental Bay because she could not speak to a lawyer. She is saying you can’t be arrested by the police unless you can speak to a lawyer first.

When she got to the police station she could have said “I am not saying anything without a lawyer present.” Fine. If the police wanted to interview her surely they would have got in a duty lawyer. But I suspect they just charged her and said “OK you can go now”.

Perhaps David Garrett could comment?
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December 1, 2023 8:45am
- Ron Jeremy
  
  Seems like a tactic to avoid responsibility.I thought she was a lawyer .
  
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  December 1, 2023 8:58am
  - peterwn
    
    She probably wants to apply for a lawyer’s practicing certificate and the alleged drink-drive is proving a nasty impediment.
    
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    December 1, 2023 9:44am
    - nathie
      
      Fair points but seeing she has setup a political consultancy business surely she will want that to succeed, so doesn’t need a lawyer’s practicing certificate?
      
      Well unless she doesn’t expect the consultancy/lobbying business to last for long? If so what does that say of her dedication/commitment?
      
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      December 1, 2023 11:12am
      - Beach Haven expat
        
        She’s just attempting to deflect as much of it as she can do they don’t impact on either a comeback or this lobbying firm.
        
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        December 1, 2023 6:50pm
  - fernglas
    
    The statement is particularly unattractive, in that she says;
    ““If successful in the courts, the police can be found to have illegally arrested and detained the first Māori Minister of Justice.”
    It is important that in the statement, she doesn’t deny refusing to accompany the Police, but instead says she was denied a questionable right to legal advice, without which she was entitled to refuse. It’s been a while since I did any drink drive cases, but I thought the law on that point was settled, and that there was no right to legal advice at that stage. It should also be pointed out that, in any case, regardless of the Bill of Rights issue, she would also be the first Minister of Justice of any race to smash into a parked car after drinking (on her own admission), flee the scene, and refuse to go with Police when required to do so. She also doesn’t explain why she has pleaded not guilty to careless driving, when it seems to be an utter slam dunk, the only possible defence being that she wasn’t the driver. But no doubt all will be revealed. It doesn’t say much for her integrity.
    
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    December 1, 2023 11:16am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I once thought that Kiri would be a breath of fresh air, but she’s in delusion lala land, trying to justify her own fuck-ups.
  
  As a school teacher you encounter loads of different kids who make mistakes..and every now and again you’d get some tiresome story whereby a kid would try to paint their foul behaviour as a heroic action…
  
  Drink driving resulting in a crash seems to be a fairly clear case where it would pay to accompany PC Blog.
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:10am
- peterwn
  
  As far as I know the Police do not need to help obtain a lawyer until the suspect is either at the police station, in the booze bus or the police want to administer an evidential breath or blood test.
  Like the typical drink-drive suspect she is looking for any possible loophole to escape consequences especially loss of licence.
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:25am
- Clyde
  
  A devious, manipulative, racist who wants to duck out of personal responsibility for her actions. Sounds like a Liemore Pardy ministerial post is beckoning sometime in the future. Or maybe her talents are more in line with the Watermelon party or the East Polynesian Party?
  
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  December 1, 2023 11:09am
- Beach Haven expat
  
  Shows the wisdom of the cops cutting her a break and deciding her alcohol level didn’t warrant a charge.
  And at the time didn’t she say she was taking responsibility for her actions?
  Be interesting if at her trial all the alleged comments around arrest time — ie the job threats – will be able to be addressed.
  
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  December 1, 2023 6:53pm
- thirteenstars
  
  “The police have to tell you that you’ve got the right to talk to a lawyer, in private, and without any unreasonable delay, before you decide whether or not to answer the police’s questions.”
  
  https://communitylaw.org.nz/community-law-manual/chapter-30-police-powers/being-questioned-by-the-police/
  
  This is in the case that you are being merely being detained or actually arrested.
  
  It’s the unreasonable delay that matters. If the police arrest you and take you to a station, and at that point let you get in touch with a lawyer, that’s not an unreasonable delay, and the courts have said that. But they can’t hold you for an unreasonable length of time before you get legal advice.
  
  All of this is after they have read you your rights.
  
  Allan is having a laugh. If she’s maintaining a lawyer should have been available on the roadside within minutes of being detained, she’s way off base and she knows it.
  
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  December 2, 2023 9:29am
I remember when

Are they telling the truth about smoking?: Richard Vobes.
Commenting on government intrusion with their banning in the UK of those born after 1 January, 2009.
He references the book “Smoke Screens: The Truth about Tobacco” by Richard White.
The book apparently revisits some of the early research and suggests it may have been biased.
Also, the fact that smoking may have reduced the likelihood of catching covid.
A fact that seemed to be ackowledged and then quietly moved to one side.
The real point is that the ‘Forces for Good” seem to consider smoking is the ultimate evil.
However, I can’t remember anyone being found dead the next morning because they smoked too many cigarettes the previous day.
Or, suffering mental health problems because of their continuing use of tobacco.
Even, becoming homeless, or imprisoned, because of their inability to control their addiction.
At least, tobacco users are making a down-payment on their future health problems.

What I am left wondering is, whether tobacco results illustrate what happens if researchers get paid to find a particular answer.
At what stage did these payments start to dominate medical and university research and has it skewered the outcomes?
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December 1, 2023 8:47am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Have you ever smoked cigarettes? They are very bad for you.
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:27am
  - kevn
    
    BY… It is not compulsary to be a smoker. Funny that vapes are getting a plug.
    I’m sure booze is much more a problem in every way.
    
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    December 1, 2023 10:46am
  - kowtow
    
    Oddly enough a host of things are “very bad for you” .
    Too much sunshine .
    Too much sugar.
    Too much alcohol.
    Etc
    
    We really do need to be careful about how much “safety” we want others to tell us / legislate for us .
    
    Nek minit air travel , CO2 proscriptions.etc
    
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    December 1, 2023 1:30pm
  - Jack5
    
    Smokers inflict their smoke on others nearby. That and the pressure smoking puts on the health system make tobacco everybody’s business.
    
    After being close to a heavy smoker dying miserably from emphysema, I say bloody good riddance to cigarettes.
    
    However, pricing smoking to extinction has stuttered to its limit. High tobacco prices stimulate crime in ram raids and gang distribution, and they inflict misery on poor families with incurably addicted smokers.
    
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    December 1, 2023 8:15pm
Littletramp

Good to see Elon Musk yesterday supporting Winston Peters assertion that financial support for journalism should not come with any strings attached – although Musk called it blackmail not bribery.
If the money comes with conditions it is not journalism it is propaganda.
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December 1, 2023 8:48am
- thirteenstars
  
  Oh, Musk recently commenting after Disney, Apple, Facebook, etc. withdrew $75m of advertising from Twitter for alleged anti-Semitic comments by Musk, which he never made:
  
  If someone’s going to try to blackmail me with advertising, blackmail me with money, go fuck yourself.
  
  https://youtu.be/2BfMuHDfGJI?si=cSpTq5Xk8VmwGzEQ&t=652
  
  They’re coming after him just like they did Trump, and for the same reasons. TDS has become MDS, and I wonder when the TDS sufferers who gleefully jumped on that bandwagon will begin to see they got the whole game wrong. They got played by very dark forces, a subset of which are now also coming after the NZ coalition government.
  
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  December 1, 2023 12:51pm
Colville

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/301018027/held-at-ransom-allegations-of-blackmail-fly-after-popular-coastal-walkway-closure

Wayne Brown being a total knobhead here.
They are not “trying to get their hands on” the property…they own it. They are trying to get the Councils claws off of it! (and gift the walkway to the public)
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December 1, 2023 9:01am
- Lipo
  
  He has some history
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/editors-picks/7473478/Mayor-to-pay-75k-in-unpaid-rates
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:15am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Council should just take the land (Public Works?) and call it a cycle path.
  Current owners would not be against a cycle path would they? What about the King’s chain? Does that still apply?
  Oh, wait, it’s money they are after.
  
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  December 1, 2023 11:29am
Maggie Pie

You can always rely on Shane Jones to come up with a few zingers 😀

Yesterday on The Platform, he referred to Te Pati Maori’s Debbie Ngarewa-Packer as….
“a demented native parrot” over her comment about Maori genocide.

On a more serious note, a bestie txts –

The Maori Party are following a path that one could argue nears a tipping point.
A tipping point where they one day soon may prove to be an existential threat to the safety and security of New Zealand.

Hmmm….
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December 1, 2023 9:08am
I remember when

One News: At Noon .
Z Energy is misleading customers in advertising campaigns.
The Consumer Affairs Watchdog has teamed with two environmental legal groups to take the company to court for breeching the Fair Trade Act.
Jon Duffy (Consumer NZ), said the company is capitalising on people’s concerns about the ‘Climate Crisis’ for commercial gain.

Looks like they have found the ‘mother lode’ so will keep the courts busy for years to come.
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December 1, 2023 9:10am
- peterwn
  
  And Consumer NZ should stick to its knitting (like testing toasters or advising members how to get a better deal) and not allow itself to be used as a forum for political activism.
  I wonder if Consumer NZ along with Stuff/The Post will be toast in several years time.
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:35am
  - Matt Long
    
    Consumer themselves are a scam, sign up to their reports before buying an appliance, find most of the public comments disagree with their reviewers, find one that reviews and comments agree is good, only to find product is not available anywhere.
    There also seems to be companies that give money to Consumer to become “Trusted Brands.”
    
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    December 1, 2023 2:18pm
- Inandout
  
  Irw, Consumer has become so very woke and green focused I tend to avoid reading about their campaigns on their web site. I have renewed my sub before their price hike takes hold but will not renew. Consumer was once an organisation that tested products and gave results, with a bit of advice thrown in.
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:53am
- RoboRob
  
  I assume this is a bunch of loons trying to use this to push their agendas. Their claims are crazy. People know that Z still sells petrol. Zs claims were they were making their operations more environmentally friendly and starting EV support etc.
  
  They didn’t claim that their petrol was less poluting or that they were selling less. For these climate wackos to pretend thats what people thought they were saying is just maximum stupid. What a bunch of arse clowns.
  
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  December 1, 2023 10:07am
krazykiwi

Henry Kissinger has died. Leading US geostrategist and major war criminal of the Cold War era, true founder of the World Economic Forum in 1971, secret architect of the Chile coup in 1973 and the Aldo Moro execution in 1978, key player in US-China relations, doyen of the secretive Bilderberg Group. I wonder how peaceful his rest will be.
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December 1, 2023 9:19am
- kevn
  
  kk… His evil work is done and there are a bunch of WEF acolytes and wannabes carrying on. There is a little bit of a blip in Europe at the mo.
  These wannabes will get the flick, the table can’t have too many of ‘them’.
  
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  December 1, 2023 10:44am
- Ra Henare
  
  Dont forget the mass bombing Campaign in Cambodia!
  That killed hundreds of thousands which lead to Khmer Rouge that killed millions.
  
  Kissinger was a very nasty piece of work
  
  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/henry-kissingers-bombing-campaign-likely-killed-hundreds-of-thousands-of-cambodians-and-set-path-for-the-ravages-of-the-khmer-rouge/ar-AA1kKRJz
  
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  December 1, 2023 3:21pm
Ghost

Live stream of a fireside chat with Luxon
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December 1, 2023 9:20am
- MCōs
  
  Fireside chat?
  Where is he. It’s summertime
  
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  December 1, 2023 9:54am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    I think it is a subtle snub at the Global Warming alarmists, to have a fireside chat in late November.
    
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    December 1, 2023 12:27pm
    - MCōs
      
      Could be Wellington of course
      Global warming bypassed that place along with most summers
      I used to live in Ngaio for many years and thought the weather was marvelous until I went somewhere else, anywhere else.
      
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      December 1, 2023 2:46pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Could have been Coronation Rd in Mangere, cos 😀
        
        4 0
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        December 1, 2023 3:00pm
      - MCōs
        
        There’s no Coro Rd in Mangere
        
        2 0
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        December 1, 2023 3:07pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Now your being silly Cossie!
        That’s where Willie house is. Post Code 2022.
        
        4 1
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        December 1, 2023 5:35pm
- Matt Long
  
  Link now goes to Steve Maharey’s resignation from Pharmac,
  So far since leaving Aunty Helen’s he’s wrecked Massey and Pharmac, next victim?
  
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  December 1, 2023 1:04pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Māori leaders call for a united front to fight new government’s Treaty dumping. Misleading. The Treaty needs to revert to the 1840 version, not the post 1975 Waitangi Tribunal version. The usual culprits are center stage. This is the Herald.

Turia says: “This is our land. This is where we come from. We’ve been born out of this land. So our people have to stand up and say we’re not putting up with this. I mean, I’m happy to go out and talk to disaffected groups and to say to them that we need to stand up and be counted.”
Your ancestors SOLD the land.
“What happened, in reality in a short space of time, they came in and thieved and stole our lands, and they continue to perpetuate their privileges through the theft of our land and their rhetoric within our lands. I think, fundamentally, this is about a relationship that our tūpuna expected to have with some foreigners with the expectation that we, their mokopuna, would continue to be the decision-makers within their cultural lands,” Mair says.
No Mair, your ancestors SOLD the land, as they were entitled to do. The land was sold to the Crown as per the Queen of England’s instructions.
“Turia says, “I didn’t get to this age in life to have people think that they’re going to do this to us and there won’t be a response. There will be.”
More threats!

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/m%C4%81ori-leaders-call-for-a-united-front-to-fight-new-government-s-treaty-dumping/ar-AA1kNPur?
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December 1, 2023 9:38am
- Flossie
  
  She should be saying “some of your ancestors sold their land to others of your ancestors”. Most of us are of pretty mixed heritage so surely who owes what to whom is impossible to figure out.
  
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  December 1, 2023 10:02am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Activists don’t think like that.
    
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    December 1, 2023 11:35am
  - Beach Haven expat
    
    You owe them.
    
    That’s their logic. No figuring out required seemingly.
    
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    December 1, 2023 6:59pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Te Pakeha is racist.
      Is there another explanation?
      
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      December 1, 2023 7:38pm
- MCōs
  
  I would suggest when pakeha first arrived here Māori had no concept of land ownership as we do and the vast majority didn’t speak English.
  I know people who think credit on credit cards is almost free money. We had a bloke in our Thai office who was far from stupid, but one day the bank gave him a credit card and he immediately maxed it out with frivolous spending. Next thing he got another card to pay for the interest on the first card and so on.
  Just because it’s second nature to us doesn’t mean everyone knows what a bank is.
  
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  December 1, 2023 3:50pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The guy in the Thai office is now a Labour advisor of course.
    
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    December 1, 2023 7:40pm
Grunter

I’ve been thinking about Seymours new role as ‘Minister of Regulations (everything)”.

If he truly does a proper cost-benefit analysis of new and existing govt regs then we should be left with very few govt regs at all. (The Nats of course will retain a bunch of regs that don’t stack up simply to retain status quo.)

Take education as just one example. In a free and liberal society, the last thing any of us want is an interterring Government trying to ‘educate’ our kids. We don’t allow govt to regulate what we read (part of our own education), so why do we allow them to have a monopoly on providing schooling and then regulate the crap out of it to the point that it doesn’t actually work?

My point is – this will be a big test to see how true Seymour is to his ‘free market’ views.
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December 1, 2023 9:47am
- hullkiwi
  
  Why the dig at National? It was in their manifesto to get rid of unnecessary regulation, which was scoffed at by Seymour!
  
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  December 1, 2023 10:20am
- cmm
  
  While education is certainly regulated, the NZ system is one of the more flexible systems in the world. It is relatively easy to do home schooling in NZ and last time I checked around 3000 families do so.
  
  We also have a pretty flexible system to allow home schoolers to enter university etc. Contrary to what is believed by many, NCEA qualifications are not required.
  
  Both of our children were homeschooled from end to end (didn’t spend a day in school). The only official qualifications they got was when both of them chose to do NCEA2 chemistry through the correspondence school (which they both passed well). Both got accepted into engineering programmes. Both got degrees.
  
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  December 1, 2023 11:09am
Yvette

The Kiingitanga and Ngāti Whātua Ōrākei have released a joint statement of clarification over who has status and rights over territory in Auckland.
The statement acknowledges their historically “positive whanaungatanga” and reaffirms Ngāti Whātua Ōrākei’s “ahi kaa and tangata whenua status”.
“The Kiingitanga is not seeking to usurp the tangata whenua status of Ngaati Whaatua Ooraakei in central Auckland,” it reads.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/11/30/kiingitanga-not-ursurping-ngati-whaatua-orakei-in-auckland/

Waikato-Tainui’s Tukoroirangi Morgan has been appointed to lead the northern Three Waters iwi body.
And he has already warned that Auckland taking more and more water from the Waikato River is not sustainable.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/300731108/tuku-morgan-to-head-three-waters-iwi-body-for-auckland-and-northland

At the time of his appointment it was asked “Why Tukoroirangi Morgan of Waikato-Tainui was to lead the northern Auckland / Northland Three Waters iwi body, which was to have been the largest in the country and remained unchanged in the shift from four to ten Entities”

Three waters may disappear but Tukoroirangi Morgan remains in an understanding with Auckland / Northland iwi … while Winston counts the increased number of times “Aotearoa” was used on 1 News yesterday evening
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December 1, 2023 9:53am
Jmac

As happy as I am about the repeal of the Smoke-free Bill, I would have enjoyed watching the nicotine removal aspect backfire spectacularly.

Which manufacturer would have come to the table?
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December 1, 2023 9:53am
- Benedict Yu
  
  All of them. The proposal was to only allow “ultra low nicotine” cigarettes. There are many of these already on the market.
  
  https://www.govtlab.gov.hk/en/our_work/publications/tar_and_nicotine_report.html
  
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  December 1, 2023 10:50am
  - cmm
    
    While there might be many on the market, is that really what the market wants?
    
    I would expect that this would just increase the market for illegal tobacco. Alternatively people would probably squirt nicotine vape juice on their cigarettes.
    
    Various research suggests that even “nicotine-free” vape products often have nicotine in them. It’s the nicotine that brings them back for more.
    
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    December 1, 2023 11:12am
Maggie Pie

Don’t know what Samantha is on….but found it an intriguing watch nonetheless

https://counterspinmedia.com/blog/resources-videos/samantha-edwards-reports-9-christchurch-mosque-attacks-the-cover-up-continues/
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December 1, 2023 10:17am
Nickc2

Palestinian thugs ambush Israelis staying in a Melbourne Hotel.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/families-of-hamas-victims-confronted-by-pro-palestine-protesters-in-melbourne-20231130-p5eny3.html
Not much in our news about this atrocity. Is our MSM still acting under edicts from their mates in the previous Govt?
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December 1, 2023 10:39am
argie bargie

It appears the media companies don’t know which side their bread is buttered on. I understand the PIJF isn’t taking any more applications, but is paying out for a while longer, surely the new media minister can stop those payments, and surely ministers of other departments can stop future department advertising (which I think is a waste of taxpayers money anyway). Then the media companies will be like any other business that runs out of money, and call in the liquidators. The local media have become so biased they are not worth reading, and we would be no worse off if they were to close. There will always be somebody with new ideas to take their place and find other sources of funding.
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December 1, 2023 10:48am
- cmm
  
  Government advertising is ridiculous. They hardly have any competition.
  
  Sure, there are some exceptions, but people can get information in so many ways that massive advertising spending is not required.
  
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  December 1, 2023 11:16am
Maggie Pie

$tuffed reports….

‘Labor is positioning itself as better for women, children, minorities and Maori,
as it gets ready for Parliament to start next week’

First mistake. Have these commie morons not learned anything in the last 6 years?
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December 1, 2023 11:14am
Bridgenag

From USA

In this essay, Rav Arora has done a great job of documenting the corruption of corporate media by the morally and financially bankrupt USG HHS COVID “vaccine” surreptitious marketing campaign.

When a government feels that it is acceptable to deploy modern PsyOps technology on its citizens, then the whole concept of elections as a check on tyranny becomes both irrelevant and obsolete.

And if they are willing to do this to promote an injectable medical product which has proven neither safe nor effective, what will stop them from doing similar for whatever is politically expedient at the moment.

When will we learn to just say “no”?

The Federal Government Paid Media Outlets To Promote The Covid Vaccine
Can you trust reporting on the Covid vaccine by media outlets paid by the government to promote the vaccine?

https://open.substack.com/pub/illusionconsensus/p/the-federal-government-paid-media?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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December 1, 2023 11:15am
Manolo

In the past some of my comments have been deleted. It has happened again two days ago when I posted on the dreadful Mrs Whanau. My mild words just vanished without trace.

Enough censorship for me. So, I’m withdrawing from Kiwiblog for good.

A warm farewell to my fellow commenters.
Arrivederci!
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December 1, 2023 11:26am
- Swifty
  
  Please reconsider Manolo.
  
  We can’t lose any more of the Old Guard.
  
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  December 1, 2023 12:05pm
- kowtow
  
  One or two of mine disappeared too , possibly cos like you I was using Eyetalian but mine was innuendo ……..
  
  What’s a fella ti do.
  
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  December 1, 2023 1:38pm
- Jack5
  
  Hang around, Manolo!
  
  Maybe write your posts on something else first, and when you cannot see why they disappear, you might get an explanation if you email a query and a copy of the post to the address given under the comments subheading here:
  
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/comments_policy
  
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  December 1, 2023 7:59pm
Liberty

Another lamentation has been heard from Tova. Rebranding government departments to the English language will incur enormous expenses, Which is acceptable. The solution lies in discharging a certain number of public servants as there is an abundance.
On a similar note, altering to the Te Reo language would have also necessitated expenditures worth millions, and the public’s wishes were not taken into account. Moreover, the public was not even notified that this change would transpire. This is due to the fact that the media personnel tied to the Labour party were financially compensated with 55 million dollars to facilitate the socialist agenda.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/133369391/the-uncertainty-around-how-much-it-would-cost-to-rebrand-government-departments
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December 1, 2023 11:37am
Suze Wainwright

Why would someone like Gordon Campbell bemoan the current government pursuing the policies of yesteryear?

The photos I’ve seen of the man indicate he’s personally at home in the 1970s.
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December 1, 2023 11:40am
Maggie Pie

It’s an absolutely dreadful colour for a Porsche anyway 😎

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1730331223992472029
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December 1, 2023 11:54am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  A friend who drives a Nissan LEAF gives petrol heads, gunning their engine at a stoplight, a head start before cleaning their clock.
  
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  December 1, 2023 1:09pm
  - Burtland
    
    2023 Nissan Leaf 0-100kph 6.9sec
    2023 Tesla Cybertruck 0-100kph 2.9sec
    2021 Porsche 911 Turbo S 0-100kph 2.5sec
    
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    December 1, 2023 10:26pm
RichardF

I spent some time in Australia recently. It was a breath of fresh air after so long stuck at home. A comment from Tony Alexander yesterday resonated with me about kiwis moving to Australia…their culture is very different to NZ’s “woke, pc, dont offend anyone” one. I have to agree – for the first time in ages I wasn’t made to feel guilty for being a pale stale male. They seemed more confident as a country. They have some problems for sure – but the difference was obvious between the two and the gap is widening. Our new govt has a huge challenge ahead of them.
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December 1, 2023 12:05pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Come to Se Asia where as a stale pale male you have curiosity value as well as undivided attention from locals who want to “”be your friend””
  AKA sell you stuff.
  Humour intended.
  
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  December 1, 2023 3:28pm
Jethrod

How can you refresh this blog without going back up to the top every time?
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December 1, 2023 12:06pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Just hit the ‘refresh’ icon.
  
  [Follow me here for more IT & Hi-Tech advice.]
  
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  December 1, 2023 12:20pm
  - Ghost
    
    Can you advise how one deletes a video from the internet, asking for an anonymous wellington caller…..
    
    12 0
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    December 1, 2023 12:26pm
    - DimChappie
      
      I suspect the people who took the Whanau video/s on their phones are being scared/warned/bullied/induced to not post them online. If any are reading this, do your public duty and post away. She was out in public.
      
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      December 1, 2023 3:09pm
      - sungsamning
        
        The place to look might be porn hub.
        
        2 2
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        December 1, 2023 6:37pm
  - Jethrod
    
    I must be thick….point me to the refresh icon
    
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    December 1, 2023 12:44pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      What browser do you use?
      
      6 0
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      December 1, 2023 12:51pm
      - Jethrod
        
        Use a Samsung tablet with the Brave browser
        
        3 0
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        December 1, 2023 2:40pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Oh. I have no idea.
        
        4 0
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        December 1, 2023 3:58pm
    - kevn
      
      Jethro… Look for that little arrow in a circle top left of the screen… maybe.
      
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      December 1, 2023 1:52pm
      - Jack5
        
        Jethro, Kevn’s on target.
        
        In my Brave browser on a PC, the reload button is at the top left, a tiny broken circle, ending its clockwise broken transverse with a little arrow.
        
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        December 1, 2023 3:06pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Hit the F5 key.
  
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  December 1, 2023 2:04pm
Maggy Wassilieff

First of many leaving the troughs?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/12/steve-maharey-resigns-from-pharmac-acc-roles.html

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/503674/public-sector-boss-steve-maharey-has-resigned

We can but hope.
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December 1, 2023 12:55pm
- cmm
  
  Is this leaving the trough?
  Or is it running away to avoid scrutiny?
  
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  December 1, 2023 1:01pm
Benedict Yu

I see that the Government is axing sexuality and relationship education from schools.

Ginny Andersen is unhappy.

“Labour MP Ginny Andersen, who was also on the show, said many young people needed the information in the guidelines.

“They need people they can trust, telling them information that they can rely on. It is critical for the development of our young people,” Andersen said.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301018525/live-luxon-reinforces-school-cellphone-ban-plan

I agree with Ginny. Teenagers “need people they can trust.” That should be their parents. Sadly, that is not always the case. The question is, can we trust the teachers? They clearly cannot adequately teach maths and english. Why should we trust them to get sexuality right?

In principle, we should be teaching teenagers about consent and sexuality and relationships. However, we have a predominantly socialist workforce trying to teach sensitive topics to children from culturally diverse families. Muslim parents are not going to be happy about such teaching. Same for conservative Christian parents.
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December 1, 2023 12:58pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  As an aside any teen looking for any of that sort of info can get it from Uncle Google.
  
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  December 1, 2023 1:21pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    yeah but they also get a lot of rubbish.
    
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    December 1, 2023 1:36pm
    - cmm
      
      They also get rubbish at school too.
      
      Note that what is being talked about here is sexuality education, not sexual education. Big difference.
      
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      December 1, 2023 1:43pm
- NothingLeft
  
  At least the parents care deeply about the long term outcomes and consequences for the kids, and in the main will do a good job of keeping their kids alive. Left wing activists seem more interested in just collecting notches in their belts.
  
  The last people we should be letting become or have influence over counselling are activists, should probably exclude anyone who has been near the humanities department of a university in last 30 years.
  
  If Ginny or really any labour/green MP is unhappy then you know you are doing something right.
  
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  December 1, 2023 2:55pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “They need people they can trust, telling them information that they can rely on. It is critical for the development of our young people,”
  After six years of complete failures I would not trust those Labour bastards as far as I could kick them!
  Seriously, that Anderson is an airhead.
  
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  December 1, 2023 3:51pm
- Beach Haven expat
  
  Not sure I’d want Ginny giving out sex education to teenagers.
  It would be shouting at them that they are ****ing useless and they should have done much more knocking away at the front door. Delivered in her fishwife’s tone.
  Jillickers, what a mental image.
  
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  December 1, 2023 7:09pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

O dear, o dear, o dear.

EVs have 79% more problems than ICE vehicles, while PHEV fare even less well, at 126% worse.

And that’s before you get to crappy range, limited recharging infrastructure, easily damaged batteries, sky-high insurance & their propensity to immolate.

COP that, Greenies!

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Consumer-Reports-EVs-Are-Less-Reliable-Than-Gasoline-Cars.html
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December 1, 2023 1:28pm
- cmm
  
  The biggest shock for many people is that an EV does not save you money.
  
  Sure, the EV’s per km cost might be slightly lower if you just look at the cost of electricity, but once you add in the cost of the battery replacement and higher depreciation then the spreadsheet turns from green to red.
  
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  December 1, 2023 2:33pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    And the cost of the imported coal.
    
    7 2
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    December 1, 2023 3:57pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I have done the sums. If you are driving around cities, by far, the lowest life time cost vehicle is a small Toyota hybrid. 1000 km out of a tank, and less than half the cost of an equivalent sized EV.
    
    https://www.toyota.co.nz/new-car/yaris/
    
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    December 1, 2023 6:46pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Just wait until they actually have to pay road user charges and don’t get subsidised purchase costs.
  
  I still think we will see substantial conversion to EV’s in coming decades, they’re likely to get cheaper than petrol in a few years, but mostly useful for commuter vehicles and runabouts in 2 car families, with a substantial number of PHEVs needed to provide for all the use cases that EV can’t do well.
  
  Tesla Cybertruck specs today: about 500km range, starting at about NZD$130k ($190k top of the line) and still need an expensive separate 40kWh range extending battery pack if you want an extra 200km or to tow a trailer significant distance. You’d be better off with a 5-10kW genset in the back.
  
  That price needs to halve to compete, and even then it’s a compromise.
  
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  December 1, 2023 2:49pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Road user charges for EV owners and cyclists!
    It is not the wear and tear on the road, it is the cost of providing it for you – subsidised by ICEVs.
    3, 2, 1, go. Attack!!
    
    7 2
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    December 1, 2023 4:00pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Look at who posted that survey.. the oil industry!
  
  Think that may be a bit biased ?
  
  We purchased our first EV ( a 2013 Nissan LEAF ) nine years ago. Since then our total M antennae costs have been two tires, two windshield wipers and windshield wiper fluid!
  
  Have been so happy with the low cost of ownership and performance that we purchase another Nissan LEAF as a second car.
  
  Over the past nine years of ownership we have saved an incredible amount of petrol costs.
  
  I would like to see EV owners who were unhappy with their purchasing decision to post their feelings here. Would be surprized to see many.
  
  Our host DPF apparently has owned an EV for a while. Do you have an opinion?
  
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  December 1, 2023 7:02pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

The considered thinking is that EVs only appeal to a certain type of early adopter, and that the transition to widespread use just isn’t happening. Hence the piles of unsold EVs all over.

I’d argue that the same is true of cycleways. There is a hardcore of cyclists, plus those who are interested if it’s a bit safer. But, mass adoption won’t happen because most people don’t like having to ride a bike to get around. Thus, they’ll stay stuck around 3% or whatever & the needle won’t move. All this calls into question why we the people are spending up large on cycling infrastructure.
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December 1, 2023 1:34pm
- cmm
  
  Quite a few people are cycling for recreation which is not a bad thing in itself.
  
  But extra recreational cycling does not replace existing transport. Cycling for fun on the week ends does not reduce car traffic of people going to work.
  
  EVs enthusiasts certainly have a religious element to them. They really get upset if you show them the numbers.
  
  If you really have a love of EVs and like driving them, then fine – do it. No different to driving around in a V8 or whatever else gives you pleasure. But don’t force your broken logic on others and insist that they subsidise your choices.
  
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  December 1, 2023 1:58pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Ouch! That will hurt the freeloaders.
    Recreational cyclists should be on their own track, paid for by themselves, same as BMX riders. No difference between going round and round or annoying motorists.
    What’s that? Pay? No way will they pay for their recreation – the rest of us do ffs.
    
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    December 1, 2023 4:05pm
- NothingLeft
  
  It’s all about the virtue signal, and the tiny number of cycling zealots and generalized wanna-push-everyone-around misanthropes that have an oversized impact on local body politics because they actually bother to vote.
  
  Would be great if local govt policy and initiatives were decided by general polling of ratepayers rather than by fevered far left councilors.
  
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  December 1, 2023 2:39pm
cmm

Those activists at NIWA play clever little word games by saying that the temperatures are going to be “normal or above average temperatures”.

No mention of below average temperatures of which there will be many.

There is a huge difference between “normal” and “average” but the activists interchange them in sneaky ways to avoid saying “below average”.

The difference is that “average” is a specific temperature, while “normal” means a range of temperatures (or more precisely a probability distribution of temperatures) which is typical for an area, season, whatever.

For example, the normal daytime high temperatures for Christchurch in summer cover the range of around 10 to 37 C. The average, however would be maybe 23.7.

Anything above 23.7 would be above average. Anything below 23.7 would be below average. But all of them fall in the “normal” range.

By playing these games they avoid saying “below average” and push the language to imply we are having abnormally hot weather.

This is just activism. It is not science.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/weather-news/301018795/first-day-of-summer-is-mud–but-what-does-the-rest-of-the-season-hold
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December 1, 2023 1:41pm
- Matt Long
  
  Their models are saying on average, temperatures will be at average or slightly above average for the next three months.
  Unfortunately their modelling is average at best.
  “All models are flawed, some models are helpful.”
  
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  December 1, 2023 2:11pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  “No mention of below average temperatures of which there will be many.”
  
  In the last three years, New Zealand has had one month where the mean monthly temperature was below average.
  
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  December 1, 2023 4:02pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    I’m sure thats what the numbers say Ben
    But I am afraid I am somewhat incredulous that the measurements are accurate.
    They use Mercury Thermometers. Not Digital (Only the US has those and only 100 of them for the whole country)
    I struggle to be convinced that they can take readings off a Mercury Thermometer to where they can quote the temp accurately to, say, .12 C
    Its just not possible- don’t you think?
    
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    December 1, 2023 5:36pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      No because you are wrong. I comment frequently on the idiocy of climate change policies. However, mean temperatures, globally, and in New Zealand are increasing. That is a fact. Facts don’t care about your politics or your feelings.
      
      NIWA uses world class thermometers.
      
      https://www.vaisala.com/en/products/weather-environmental-sensors/humicap-humidity-temperature-probe-hmp155#:~:text=The%20HMP155%20is%20engineered%20to,%2C%20rain%2C%20and%20heavy%20dew.
      
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      December 1, 2023 5:46pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Oh I know the temps are increasing. I agree with that. But its modest. Temp has been rising since the mid 1860’s
        NIWA still use Stevenson Screens
        https://niwa.co.nz/our-science/climate/information-and-resources/common-climate-weather-terms
        See Temperature
        Can you show me a link proving they are using what you say and I would be happy to admit I am wrong. And when they started using them.
        Thanks
        EDIT- actually I found it so you are correct but from when did they start?
        I am aware of all the fiddling they have done for past Temps in the Seven Station Series so I think the point remains that the record is not that accurate over a lengthy period of measurement.
        In scientific terms you need 30 years to determine a trend.
        
        4 1
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        December 1, 2023 6:08pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        No reply?
        So you dont know when they changed from Mercury Thermometers to digital.
        I bet it is recent
        
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        December 1, 2023 10:30pm
Maggie Pie

Plunko tears that horrible Matty McClean a new one 😀 😀 😀

“Matty, you’re nothing but a glorified weather reader who loses their mind
when your botfriend, husband, gets shat on by a seagull while your’re on holiday”

WATCH…

https://twitter.com/theplatform_nz/status/1730353004866568210
21 1
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December 1, 2023 2:03pm
- Albie
  
  Plunkett today saying half of these wannabe journo shock jocks need to take a basic course in journalism- including Agenda Lynchmob.
  
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  December 1, 2023 4:05pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Oh dear, Plunket has done gone and made Matty cry.
  Now my partner is arguing with me. The gay guy she likes is lying about a lie!
  OK, time for Jacks, come here and bring the ice.
  
  9 1
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  December 1, 2023 4:15pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    They/Them was nothing more than a gender-hire.
    Watching the clip of the actual interview made my flesh crawl 🙁
    
    7 1
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    December 1, 2023 4:21pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, perhaps Matty and hubby could be our Middle East correspondents.
  
  12 0
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  December 1, 2023 4:32pm
- Beach Haven expat
  
  There was much Twitter comments about how Bishop looked gormless as Matty (is that really a grown man’s name?) tore into him.
  I took it Bishop was just stunned at the tanty as Matt screamed It’s a lie in full Greta mode.
  All the while McAnulty sat there looking pleased how the $55m was still working, and possibly which soul he was going to steal next. Bit of red lighting above him, couple of bumps in his forehead. Beginning to look famaliar?
  
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  December 1, 2023 7:18pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

There are a bunch not in a bubble of ignorance, and they are milking it for all it is worth. The Maori Elite, those who want to Tribal Rule New Zealand.

Some is a repeat from yesterday. Links were not working and then jumping to the wrong post.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/more-proof-the-maori-party-are-living-in-a-bubble-of-treaty-ignorance/
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December 1, 2023 2:25pm
rangitoto

I hear someone is making a movie about Tory Whanau. It will be called Nightmayor on Willis St.
18 0
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December 1, 2023 2:44pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Could be called “Shut up Ewe 2”
  
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  December 1, 2023 4:36pm
Ghost

Wonder how long before the calls to lockdown

A sudden wave of pneumonia, known as “white lung syndrome,” has hit the U.S., with 142 children affected in one county.

Warren County, Ohio, has officially declared an outbreak after the cases were reported in recent months, a spike similar to that of the respiratory illness recently seen in China.

Article

AN alarming spike in pneumonia cases have been detected in the US and Denmark, echoing a similar surge in China.

It comes just as the Netherlands reported a stark rise in cases of a similar respiratory virus in children.

Article
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December 1, 2023 3:08pm
- kevn
  
  Ghost… Could be an unforseen consequence of the prior lockdowns. No mix and mingle = no natural immunity to lot’s of infections.
  Heaven forbid of yet another result of a jab adverse reaction. Should be easy to find that out. Have they or haven’t they? Been. Jabbed.
  
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  December 1, 2023 3:19pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Thank fuck Ardern has gone. Imagine the shit she could have caused.
  Baker, Hendy, the pink terror, Plank, are all on standby – as is Blofeld (advisory of course)
  
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  December 1, 2023 4:32pm
Maggie Pie

Only just caught the end of an interview with a lady by the mame of Margaret Mootoo (?) and HDPA. Sounded like she was really angry with National about something 🙁

Anyone else hear it?
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December 1, 2023 4:40pm
- Ghost
  
  Google thinks you mean Professor Margaret Mutu, spokesperson for the national iwi chair. Wonder if briscoes sell those
  
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  December 1, 2023 4:51pm
  - Ghost
    
    Never mind, they don’t look very comfortable
    
    https://www.pinterest.nz/pin/235876099219926162/
    
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    December 1, 2023 4:54pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      And looks like they only come in white anyway.
      Can’t see Marg being too happy about that either.
      
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      December 1, 2023 5:20pm
      - Ghost
        
        Perhaps the Haka chair then
        
        https://www.hollyhunt.com/product/haka-director-chair
        
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        December 1, 2023 5:38pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      “Based on the body language of the ancient war dance by the Maori tribesmEn of the South Pavific”.
      
      You couldn’t make that sh*t up! Only in Amerika 😀
      
      7 1
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      December 1, 2023 5:49pm
- Vinicius
  
  See here for a press release today on Scoop from Margaret Mutu. She is calling the new government racist.
  
  “The new government has launched an unashamedly racist assault on Māori that has already drawn very strong condemnation from Māori leaders…..”
  
  https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2312/S00011/coalition-agreements-between-national-act-and-nz-first-signal-the-need-to-protect-all-whanau-maori-from-racist-attacks.htm
  
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  December 1, 2023 5:03pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    WOW! Sounds like a bigger stirrer than Rawiri 🙁
    
    13 0
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    December 1, 2023 5:15pm
  - kevn
    
    Vini… Whew, the bulk of NZer’s are safe. Most will revel in the upcoming prosperity and freedom around the corner. Because there are no 100% full maori in NZ.
    Plenty who ID of course, wanting to be part of a tribal elite, aka ‘The Gravy Train’.
    
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    December 1, 2023 5:29pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Is Margeret the person that wanted children over 6 years old to vote?
    Prove me wrong – otherwise I am the nutbar LOL!
    
    2 1
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    December 1, 2023 7:50pm
kevn

Meanwhile in Japan they are working on a new, virtually untested, population reduction technique…
https://dailysceptic.org/2023/11/30/japan-approves-worlds-first-self-amplifying-mrna-covid-vaccine-with-no-safety-or-efficacy-data/
8 1
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December 1, 2023 5:25pm
- JackRabbit
  
  There is no shortage of people making snake oil, to cure a disease that doesn’t exist, to sell to people willing to take said snake oil.
  
  But in this case it should actually be called snake venom, marketed as snake oil.
  
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  December 1, 2023 5:58pm
igm

The Labour funded media cover-ups continue . . .
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/301019116/te-whatu-ora-launches-investigation-saying-employee-spreads-vaccine-misinformation
If there is not bias, and possibly overflow from bribery, what the hell is this?
9 2
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December 1, 2023 6:29pm
- krazykiwi
  
  This is gaslighting and criminal negligence from the Ministry of Health.
  
  The employee is a hero. He published record-level Ministry data that demonstrates a causative relationship between Covid19 vaccination and death.
  
  There is more to this story to play out.
  
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  December 2, 2023 7:02am
nathie

The arrogance of the Labour loving MSM continues.

Some of them are now saying that National’s “honeymoon” is over (because …. Winston …. therefore negative MSM coverage and blocking out National).

Nonsense! It was never up to the MSM to decide when political “honeymoons” are over … it is up to the public! So show me the polls!

Evidence – John Key’s National Govt had a long “honeymoon” due to voter support. Not because of MSM support (in fact most MSM hated on National back then too).

Ditto the Ardern/Labour long honeymoon – also due to public support! The fact that the MSM also supported Labour was a bonus for them.

No wonder Labour rewarded the MSM with $55M+! Ka-ching!
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December 1, 2023 6:36pm
Cantabrian

Readers may be aware of the move by the Lower Hutt City Council to rename Petone to Pito-one, on the basis that this would correct the spelling of the name. I am puzzled by this argument (which has been used in other places over the years) because the Maori did not have a written language until the missionaries and early settlers developed dictionaries. If there was no written language, how can there be any argument over whether Petone or Pio-one is correct? If, as it must have been, the language was written down phonetically then surely Petone is what the settlers heard.

Interested in other thoughts.
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December 1, 2023 8:01pm

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