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November 27, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 27 November 2023

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General Debate

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Warren

The outrage from Maori and Labour over what the Coalition wants for New Zealander’s not the excuse and blame game that the Labour Party used on the Jacinda Ardern led Government in 2017.
Out going MinisterWillie Jackson uses his mouth instead of his brain when taking a crack at incoming Government Tradeoffs.
Maori Development Minister Willie Jackson has taken to social media to voice his disgust at the incoming Government Tax and Foreign Policy with a bunch of Labour Party policies that will be kicked to touch by the incoming National Party led Government.
Then on the 6.00 a clock One News last night Grant Robertson former Finance Minister for the previous Labour Government had a crack at Nicola Willis after her comments on the state of the books being worse than what had been indicated and not what anyone would have thought, Grant Robertson’s reply was this is what you will get from the National led Coalition and Finance Minister Nicole Willis excuses and more excuses to come, we’ll isn’t that the pot calling the Kettle, when all you heard from the Jacinda Ardern led Government was how bad the National Party had left the Health Portfolio with the chronic state of our Hospitals and how grossly underfunded as they were for decades by National Government’s.
Labour are bitter and deluded and will stop at nothing to blame others for their own incompetence.
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November 27, 2023 8:03am
- Maggie's partner
  
  The great thing about the next 3 and hopefully 6 years is that these Labour types can say whatever they want, do whatever they want, but it doesn’t matter, it won’t affect us, because they are out of power
  
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  November 27, 2023 8:56am
  - emmess
    
    Try 15 years
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:13am
    - David Garrett
      
      emmess: You are clearly a very poor student of NZ politics. There has never been a five term government in NZ, and the last four term one was under Keith Holyoake more than 50 years ago.
      
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      November 27, 2023 10:26am
      - John Loveridge
        
        But we can hope, David.
        
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        November 27, 2023 2:56pm
      - Colville
        
        DG.
        Has the opposition bench ever been so devoid of talent ?
        Can you name a single Labour MP that could lead say 5 others capable of lifting their vote share into the 40%’s?
        
        Serious question..maybe you know something about someone I dont?
        
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        November 27, 2023 5:51pm
      - Manu-Rau
        
        Sorry DG, but you are incorrect. The First Liberal Government did seven terms, and ruled for 21 years. (1890-1911.)
        
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        November 27, 2023 7:37pm
    - R
      
      Try 15 years…….
      it is going to take a lot more than 15 years to correct the mess that is the present state of NZ’s economy and the accompanying social mismanagement.
      Try 25 years!
      
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      November 27, 2023 3:36pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        It could be done in 3. All it would take is balls.
        
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        November 27, 2023 6:51pm
  - rockape
    
    Next three and hopefully the next 7 or 11.
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:23am
- MCōs
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Every new finance minister always says they’ve looked at the books and they’re worse than they’ve been led to believe.
  It’s a prelude to walking back some expensive promises.
  
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  November 27, 2023 9:02am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I’m not sure what Nicola Willis has seen. She has not yet been sworn in.
    
    As I have said before, I would be surprised if there are undisclosed fiscal time bombs. However there are two issues that she will hear about on day 1.
    
    Updated fiscal and economic forecasts. They may have gone backwards since PREFU.
    
    But more importantly, Treasury’s advice about the corrective action required to get New Zealand back on track. I predict that Treasury will advise that there needs to be a major reduction in public sector consumption. The impact on the public service is going to be brutal.
    
    I recall some time ago debating with Wayne Mapp about whether a “recruitment freeze” would be enough to tackle the bloated public service. I argued that it would be both insufficient and a terrible idea. The least skilled employees hang on for grim life. Also a recruitment freeze means you can’t hire a new person with the skills that might be needed to implement a new government priority.
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:13am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Maybe Blackrock will have a Exchanged traded fund to Short the Wellington house market ?
      If so, I hope the NZ superfund invests in it.//
      You know, Make money as intended for NZ inc.//
      
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      November 27, 2023 9:40am
    - imalwaysright
      
      She said that she has been briefed by Treasury
      
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      November 27, 2023 9:54am
      - Local Miller
        
        That’s interesting because she shouldn’t have been briefed given she wasn’t yet the minister of finance. The most she should have got should have been what’s already in the public domain or available to all MPs, or available through an OIA request. Or the out going minister could have briefed her, but I doubt Robertson is that keen on being helpful, and I’d take a lot of what he says with a pinch of salt.
        
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        November 27, 2023 1:47pm
    - Jack5
      
      A recruitment freeze on the Public Service?
      
      That’s gone out the police window to meet Peters policy.
      
      And the health service crisis will worsen without more doctors, nurses, and other medical staff.
      
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      November 27, 2023 10:11am
      - cmm
        
        Well at least a freeze on the white collar Wellingtonians.
        
        IMHO a freeze is not good enough. We need 50% of them fired.
        
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        November 27, 2023 10:25am
      - NothingLeft
        
        Downsizing need to be extremely rapid, a week or two to review and fire. Otherwise talent looks elsewhere for work morale collapses and you are left with the dregs.
        
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        November 27, 2023 1:09pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      Bene. You will of course realise that Ms Wills will have been briefed by treasury some weeks ago to
      
      a) Help the negotiations
      b) She is/was the agreed Finance Minister and only a Career ending decision to NOT brief her would take a very brave soul
      
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      November 27, 2023 1:39pm
      - Local Miller
        
        Seems like she was briefed after the new government was announced which I find interesting.
        
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        November 27, 2023 1:50pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I don’t remember any new Finance Minister saying that. Not since 1990 anyway.
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:14am
    - Warren
      
      https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/11/26/new-govt-mini-budget-to-be-released-before-christmas-willis/?utm_source=newsshowcase&utm_medium=discover&utm_campaign=CCwqMwgwKioIACIQzDPJ6yZyEV-jbDiMzev8qioUCAoiEMwzyesmchFfo2w4jM3r_Kow7OzkAjCFkZAD&utm_content=bullets
      This was Nicole Willis on Q/A on Saturday telling Jack Tame she had already been briefed on what the books state was.
      
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      November 27, 2023 9:55am
      - sungsamning
        
        Thanks for that link. Good to see a mini-budget is coming. Hope they delete all future PIJF spending.
        
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        November 27, 2023 11:13am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  As I said yesterday, ignore the squealing left.
  We won, you lost.
  Eat shit.
  
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  November 27, 2023 9:03am
- Stellaboxer
  
  The only thing is Warren nobody but the card carriers are listening anymore. This is a true counter revolution . Many of the young journalists, and I use that term very lightly, have come out of their Post Modernist Neo Marxist indoctrination degrees straight into media jobs and have known nothing else but a Labour regime . To them their world and their career paths are shattered they simply cannot come to terms what has happened it’s simply outside of their experience. As for the remnants of the Ardern regime (remember her ?) they are like children who have finally been caught out stealing from their mothers purse and desperately trying to justify, deflect and blame anyone but themselves for the chaos and destruction they have brought on the economy , race relations, education health in fact the very fabric of society and what New Zealand is. As good revolutionaries they wanted to build utopia but first they had to destroy everything first so they could commence reconstruction and basically, thank goodness they only made it halfway. So the likes of Hipkins and Robertson just appear vandals and are now embarrassed. No doubt they will try harder to complete it if they ever get a next time. God forbid.
  
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  November 27, 2023 9:50am
- imalwaysright
  
  The Three Amigos coalition just carpet bombed the Left.
  
  Hone Campbell is shell shocked.
  
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  November 27, 2023 10:25am
- JJ56
  
  “The outrage from some Maori elites ..” There corrected it for you
  
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  November 27, 2023 10:41am
- Nickc2
  
  All this from Robertson and no (rpt) no mention of the surplus left for his lying thieving mob when they inherited the Treasury Benches eh?
  Thank eff the kids have been banished to squabbling over scraps (handouts for Maori) for at least the next three years.
  
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  November 27, 2023 10:43am
Vinicius

Willie Jackson right on cue has been bleating.

The NZ Herald reports:
Outgoing Māori minister Willie Jackson has taken to social media to voice his disgust at the incoming government’s tax, foreign policy and a bunch of Labour Party policies that will be kicked to touch.”

Good read if you want to have a Monday morning belly laugh.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/outgoing-minister-willie-jackson-takes-final-crack-at-incoming-government/ERVUYM73QNCM3LUPARE7MW77HM/
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November 27, 2023 8:06am
- ClanMcleod
  
  I’d rather pour bleach in my eyes than read what Willie Jackson thinks while supporting the Whoreald, thanks all the same!
  
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  November 27, 2023 8:48am
  - John Loveridge
    
    I take your bleach and raise you some flowing hot lava.
    
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    November 27, 2023 2:58pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  It is sure amazing. 😂
  
  “This government will rule for the few, not the many.”
  
  Um no it will be the exact opposite of that.
  
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  November 27, 2023 8:57am
  - Swifty
    
    His lack of self-awareness is astounding.
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:05am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Indeed. I love the way he describes restoring mortgage interest deductability as providing “a loophole” for rich landlords.
      
      The last government did more to harm renters than any government in living memory.
      
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      November 27, 2023 9:18am
      - David Garrett
        
        Bene: The last government did more to harm renters than any government in living memory
        
        Indeed…which is kind of ironic since the wealth of many of the Labour caucus apparently consists wholly or mostly of residential property.
        
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        November 27, 2023 10:34am
  - Biscuit
    
    Indeed, Benedict.
    
    What was it, Willie, that Michael Cullen once said?:
    “Eat that! You lost, we won! It is as simple as that!”
    
    Cullen had a manadate to do what he did,
    
    National/ACT/NZ First have a mandate to do what they said they will…
    
    Ruke for the many, Willie, not rule for the few … as your bizarre rewording of the concept of Democracy would have it…
    
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    November 27, 2023 10:06am
    - Biscuit
      
      Only two typos in that piece.
      Biscuit is getting BETTER, people!
      
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      November 27, 2023 10:10am
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        Good, I’m all in favour of better biscuits. Bring back malt meal wafers.
        
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        November 27, 2023 7:49pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    “This government will rule for the few, not the many.”
    
    Says Mr Three Percent.
    
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    November 27, 2023 6:35pm
- Swifty
  
  Stoking the fires of grievance and division. That’s all he’s got. It’s not as if he can point to achievements over the last six years and especially over the last three.
  
  He’s yesterday’s man. Dumped for poor performance and now left with little to do other than yell at clouds.
  
  He’s a joke.
  
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  November 27, 2023 9:05am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    It will be interesting to see if Mr Luxon attends Waitangi Day. I predict an absolute shit show. He would be better off ignoring the whole thing.
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:20am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I predict an absolute shit show.
      
      And that will reveal the true agenda of the activists and will repel many of those who have been willing to entertain thoughts of co-governance, etc.
      
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      November 27, 2023 9:28am
      - wsk12345
        
        I hope he goes, is treated disgustingly as it normal for white blokes (or the wrong sort of bro no doubt too), and realises that he got it wrong. You can never please these racists.
        
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        November 27, 2023 10:34am
    - rouppe
      
      He’s in a no-win situation with that.
      
      Don’t turn up, then it’s racism, whitewashing etc.
      Turn up, get abused (at least).
      
      So he should have a plan. He should tell the Waitangi Marae leadership that he’ll attend, but won’t stand for abuse or disrespect. When it happens, just walk off, followed by a press conference that Maori deserve respect, but respect is two-way.
      
      If Luxon isn’t shown respect, then reciprocal respect isn’t shown.
      
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      November 27, 2023 9:39am
      - KH
        
        I think he is actually on a win rouppe. The nastier they get the more they lose.
        That said, why go to Waitangi, why bother.
        
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        November 27, 2023 10:09am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Wise words rouppe!
        
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        November 27, 2023 10:11am
      - Jack5
        
        Waitangi Treaty ceremonies have become ritual humiliation ceremonies performed by Maori activists and the Left. They should be ignored.
        
        The new Government has two deputy prime ministers who identify as Maori, and a Maori Governor-General.
        
        If the Government weakly feels this annual bun fight must be attended, send Peters and Seymour, and the Governess-General. If that’s regarded as dangerous for them, let the naval honour guard have fixed bayonets and form a shield.
        
        The Navy is so under-equipped it’s fuck all use for anything else.
        
        In 2002 at Waitangi, mud was thrown in the face of Don Brash, leader of the Opposition, and in 2016 a deranged Labour supporter threw her dildo at Steven Joyce.
        
        This provided the Leftists at the State’s TVNZ with video to repeat endlessly, over years.
        
        End the carnival, Luxo!
        
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        November 27, 2023 10:27am
      - cmm
        
        The line he needs to draw is between the activist Maori and the general population of Maori.
        
        Lumping them all together as “the Maori” plays right into the activist Maori hands.
        
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        November 27, 2023 10:28am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Cmm
        
        That’s right. There are plenty of maori people who want what every one else wants and also don’t want these activists lying that they are representing maoris.
        Just the idea that all maori have the same opinion is in itself racist.
        Maybe we should refer to the activists as Far Left Racist Extremists.
        More accurate than what they call themselves .
        
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        November 27, 2023 10:52am
      - mawm
        
        rouppe – he should just make Waitangi Day irrelevant. A start would be to declare that it is a day for all New Zealanders, not just Maori, and invite a bunch of people of all races to his house for a BBQ.
        
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        November 27, 2023 10:53am
    - pdm
      
      BY – he will definitely have to wear his oldest dung resistant suit, supplemented by one of those baseball catchers masks.
      
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      November 27, 2023 9:48am
      - JJ56
        
        Bishop could lend him a shirt …
        
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        November 27, 2023 10:46am
    - Jethrod
      
      I believe he will show at least once, Further visits will be discretionary.
      Helen didn’t attend all during her reign.
      
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      November 27, 2023 9:53am
      - David Garrett
        
        Jethrod: One of the few things Clark did that I wholeheartedly agreed with. Why on earth should polis of either stripe turn up only to be abused and assaulted?
        
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        November 27, 2023 10:37am
    - thirteenstars
      
      Luxon won’t ignore it. What a waste of Te Reo lessons.
      
      But maybe he needs the wake-up call. Maybe he needs to attend, smiling away, kia ora-ing and hongi-ing all over the place, until the metaphorical mere start flying, shoving, spitting, and a general clusterfuck ensues.
      
      Send Winston.
      
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      November 27, 2023 11:17am
      - wsk12345
        
        Why should Winston or Seymour be forced to go just because they have a tiny drop of brown blood. They are the wrong sort of Maori anyway so would probably get the white man treatment.
        
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        November 27, 2023 11:48am
      - thirteenstars
        
        “…because they have a tiny drop of brown blood.”
        
        I never said or implied that.
        
        Also, it was a joke. But if Peters did go, he wouldn’t take a back step being under no illusions as to what Waitangi is actually all about.
        
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        November 27, 2023 11:57am
      - Jethrod
        
        Sorry wsk12345 ,hit report by accident. Wanted to say it would-be a brave Ngapuhi to cross Win
        
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        November 27, 2023 3:47pm
    - Local Miller
      
      He will probably be uninvited.
      
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      November 27, 2023 1:58pm
  - Biscuit
    
    What say you, Willie, to this, from Christopher Luxon this a.m.?:
    
    “We want to see Māori do incredibly well in this country. And the sad story is that after six years of this government, Māori haven’t done well.
    
    “There’s 30% more Māori, for example, on the benefit. Half of Māori kids are not at school regularly. Half of the applicants for the social housing register are actually Māori.”
    
    Six years of f*ckwittery from your mob, Willie…
    
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    November 27, 2023 10:13am
    - Swifty
      
      Labour’s incompetence laid bare for all to see.
      
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      November 27, 2023 10:26am
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      Can you provide a link to Luxon’s speech Biscuit?
      
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      November 27, 2023 7:53pm
- david
  
  The LP talking points and snarly attack lines that we will hear ad nauseum (and with luck -ad infinitum ) are already becoming apparent.
  Get used to:
  “Right wing”; “anti maori” ; “divisive” ; “retrogressive”; the themes will be repetitive and a sad reflection on a party that once stood for positive change but now is committed to the destruction of everything that a significant portion of the population hold dear.
  Note to the PM ….. nil bastardum carborundum .
  
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  November 27, 2023 11:52am
- Ra Henare
  
  To be correct Willie Jackson is the Previous Maori Minister. His outgoing has gone.
  
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  November 27, 2023 1:40pm
Flossie

Interesting that last week NZ Post advised of an increase in the cost to hold our PO Box (incidentally around 22%) via an email.
As of yesterday no paper notification in the actual PO Box.
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November 27, 2023 8:07am
- Inandout
  
  Floss, post boxes are becoming so yesterday, and rapacious fee increases only drive more people to use online communication or snail mail to letter boxes.
  
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  November 27, 2023 8:51am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Email = cheap
  Post = cost
  The irony is seemingly lost on them.
  
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  November 27, 2023 8:57am
- Flossie
  
  Actually we (our club) have now decided we will no longer be needing the services of NZ Post.
  
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  November 27, 2023 9:05am
  - lifesgood
    
    Interestingly I went to the Post Office last week to post a parcel overseas. Every other year I have girded my loins to face the long queue in the pre Christmas rush. Not a sausage, I was the only one in the PO and nobody came in in the 10 minutes I was there filling out increasingly tedious documentation. The PO was almost killed off by Michael Cullen and by regularly putting up charges it is turning more and more customers away. It is quite sad because it is lovely to receive actual letters, emails can’t compare..
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:52am
    - peterwn
      
      You do not need to go to the Post Office to post a parcel. You can pay for it, do the Customs declaration and print the label (which has all information on it) at home and then a courier will call to pick the parcel up. So nowadays the vast majority of parcels would not be posted at Post Offices. Unfortunately they are expensive – I just sent one to UK, the postage was similar to the value of the contents.
      
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      November 27, 2023 11:18am
krazykiwi

Overheard while semi-anesthetised and the anesthetist was putting a nerve block line into my neck: “Ah! I’ve nicked his jugular”. It all ended Ok for which I’m grateful.
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November 27, 2023 8:14am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Twas just a sratch then?
  
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  November 27, 2023 8:17am
  - Dudley Quaffquaff
    
    Nice one Centurion
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:01am
- ClanMcleod
  
  They wanted to do my hip replacement under local anesthetic. I’ve seen the tools involved which include saws and hammers. No thanks. I don’t need to listen to that, I’ll have the general thanks!
  
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  November 27, 2023 8:34am
  - NothingLeft
    
    General anesthetic has higher risk of side effects and death than local.
    
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    November 27, 2023 8:54am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      NothingLeft – yes, I know, but the noise of the dentist drill is bad enough for me.
      
      Irrational no doubt, but the thought of it caused me enough distress to warrant taking the actual risk which is higher, but still very small.
      
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      November 27, 2023 9:16am
      - Ghost
        
        God awful sound with flash backs to the murder house. Worse now that a dentist has gone above my gp. Seriously can’t they sound proof the room so I don’t have to hear the drill.
        
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        November 27, 2023 9:35am
      - 70andstilllearning
        
        “Irrational no doubt, …” Not really – potentially death or permanent physical damage are reality outcomes – it simply comes down to an assessment of two potentially sub optimal risks. Dare I say it to you (as really I don’t want to set you off ) but no different from a lousy call some of us had to make a couple of years back through lack of certainty/information.
        
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        November 27, 2023 10:44am
      - NothingLeft
        
        You have kids + wife. Taking more risk for ‘comfort’ seems like a bad call.
        
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        November 27, 2023 11:19am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Speaking or murder houses. anyone remember those “murder house” posters one used to get with bubblegum in the 70s? There was also a similar series of monsters driving dragster cars (I think they were stickers rather than posters).
        
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        November 27, 2023 6:44pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        That was some sort of dragster driven by the evil “Bertie Germ” ……
        
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        November 27, 2023 6:51pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Found the “odd rods” 1970s bubblegum stickers here:
        
        https://www.reddit.com/r/nostalgia/comments/fzxuv6/donruss_odd_rod_cards/?rdt=33524
        
        Still looking for the similar looking “murder house” bubblegum poster.
        
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        November 27, 2023 9:00pm
    - cmm
      
      “General anesthetic has higher risk of side effects and death than local.”
      
      There is also deep sedation where you are completely conscious but completely unaware of what is happening to you. You can respond to commands etc, but you won’t remember anything.
      
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      November 27, 2023 10:33am
      - Graham Sharpe
        
        Deep sedation carries risks of its own. And you cannot have a surgical operation with it. You need anesthesia, general or local. I am a retired anesthetist.
        
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        November 27, 2023 4:28pm
      - cmm
        
        Sure, I meant in conjunction with local.
        
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        November 27, 2023 4:58pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        I had a op fairly recently where they wanted to put me under totally. I argued for local and they agreed it was less risky. No major dramas and I could walk out of the hospital unaided straight after the op.
        
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        November 27, 2023 6:51pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Wow I didn’t even know that was a thing.
    
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    November 27, 2023 8:59am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Regional anesthesia involves blocking the nerves to a specific area of the body, without affecting your brain or breathing. Because you remain conscious (awake), you will be given sedatives to relax and put you in a light sleep.
      
      The three types of regional anesthesia used most often in joint replacement surgery are spinal blocks, epidural blocks, and peripheral nerve blocks.
      
      https://orthoinfo.aaos.org/en/treatment/anesthesia-for-hip-and-knee-surgery/
      
      When the surgeon suggested it to me I was in a bit of disbelief.
      
      I was very polite declining and to be fair he fully understood my decision, even though he tried to assure me the sedation would mean I would be unlikely to be aware of any of the procedure. No thank you!
      
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      November 27, 2023 9:23am
      - krazykiwi
        
        To be clear, I had a full general and a nerve block line which was had a pump attached for a few days. Beats popping Codine tabs (… and I can plug the line into the espresso machine 🙂 )
        
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        November 27, 2023 9:28am
      - Colville
        
        Clan.
        
        I assume they give you a local and ketamine so you dont remember the op?
        
        This is what they did to my 80 something year old Mum to set her arm after she put an additional 90 degree bend in it.
        
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        November 27, 2023 9:34am
      - Graham Sharpe
        
        It’s not up to the surgeon to advise anesthesia matters.
        
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        November 27, 2023 4:29pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    You want to see the tools they use for neck cervical dissection and fusion. Drilling the vertabrae, opening up C6/C7, scraping the disc out, shaping a bit of bone from your hip. That is tapped in with a hammer, then a titanium plate screwed in over it.
    This is millimeters from the spinal cord.
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:14am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Steve Otto – sounds like you’re building a trailer. lol
      
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      November 27, 2023 9:24am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Good engineering, making sure all the parts fit first before welding.
        
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        November 27, 2023 11:40am
      - imalwaysright
        
        S.O
        I use superglue for all my cuts. It works brilliantly . Back to work in 5 minutes .
        
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        November 27, 2023 12:45pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @imalwaysright,
        Apparently superglue was originally made for the medical profession.
        Cyanoacrylate. There is/was a variation for gluing leather to wood. So in the days of snooker tournaments if your cue tip fell off, one small drop and hold down. By the time you got back to the snooker table you could continue your break.
        
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        November 27, 2023 2:01pm
    - Jethrod
      
      Oh enough, enough, enough!!!!
      Vivid flashes going in my vision.
      
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      November 27, 2023 9:57am
    - imalwaysright
      
      S.O
      A squirt of hand sanitiser and a bottle of Jack and you could have done it yourself !
      
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      November 27, 2023 10:03am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Even got the superglue to close up (no stitches)
        
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        November 27, 2023 11:43am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I missed reading some of that. I read it as bottlejack LOL!
        
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        November 27, 2023 2:02pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Steve was that for a pinched nerve in the neck?
      
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      November 27, 2023 6:54pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Yes. Caused all sorts of problems in hands. Strange to have numbness with pins and needles, with burning all at the same time. Arm muscle wastage as well.
        One hell of a lot of pain – not in the neck.
        
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        November 28, 2023 8:02am
  - riffer
    
    I had my knee replacement under an epidural, with a drug that also meant that I didn’t remember it.
    
    One immediate benefit was that I was up and about walking within the hour.
    
    This was at Boulcott Hospital in the Hutt. Not sure what they do at Hutt Hospital. My surgeon was a big strapping Samoan fellow. Very good, could easily heft those heavy instruments and give my bones a good whack I imagine.
    
    Go for the “I can’t remember anything” drugs and you’ll be fine.
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:21am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      My surgeon assured me I wouldn’t remember it, but it wasn’t for me.
      
      Even though dental treatment has become so much better in the last 50 years, I still get stressed when I have flashbacks to the sound of the drill. I know it was mental but yeah nah.
      
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      November 27, 2023 9:27am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        My primary school had a dental nurse that used a treadle drill. No shit, and no anesthetic. Not many things scare me, but dentists do.
        
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        November 27, 2023 11:46am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Yeah epidural. I had one for a skin graft on the knee. I was thinking no way this will work, simple needle in the spine. Next thing my feet flopped sideways and my legs didn’t move.
      I sure do remember. I wanted to watch. A shaver like those turkish kebab slicer to harvest the skin. Then scotchbrite to clean the burn. They put a sheet up in front of me.
      
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      November 27, 2023 11:50am
  - Ghost
    
    My father had hip and knee done while awake, it’s how his surgeon prefers to do it. Headphones on so he can’t hear anything.
    
    Long time ago I had to have my eye balls scrapped, was given the option of local or general, I didn’t want to watch that so went general.
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:33am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Ghost – that’s interesting, I had my eye scraped a year or so ago after I got a bit of metal in it and it got infected, had it done with a local!
      
      All I remember him saying was ‘stay very still’. Trust me, I didn’t flinch!
      
      Again, I’ll put my fear of the noise during the hip replacement down as the ‘logic’ for my decision. I was sure their would be no pain, but it didn’t stop the stress I felt at the thought of it.
      
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      November 27, 2023 9:46am
      - Ghost
        
        I had pterygium over both eyes, so they had to run a blade under it cutting it off my eyes, then folded a little bit over and stitched it into the side of the eye.
        
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        November 27, 2023 10:01am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Ghost – again, interesting. I have a pterygium (thanks for the spelling!) in one of my eyes. They told me if it isn’t affecting my vision not to worry. I’m glad to hear it can be sorted, the vision has been getting a bit blurry over the last 2 years, but I haven’t been into the medical centre because of covid attitudes, masks etc.
        
        I may need to visit an optician next time I’m in the city.
        
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        November 27, 2023 10:29am
      - Ghost
        
        The good news is that the aussies are working on a few eye drops that eliminate the need for surgery. Not avaliable here yet but hopefully not far off
        
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        November 27, 2023 10:41am
    - Ian Boag
      
      I had an eyeball scraped (pterydium?) while I was awake. Might have been some local involved but I do remember the fearsome view of the scalpel heading straight for the eyeball ….
      
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      November 27, 2023 6:56pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Stop being a woose Clan. It’s fun hearing the saw, the drill and the hammer – you even get to feel the vibrations. The best part is you might also get to see your jointless leg sitting up on the orthpdo’s shoulder at an impossible angle 🙂 🙂
    
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    November 27, 2023 10:08am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      🤮🤮🤮
      
      I’ve run out of concrete pills……!
      
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      November 27, 2023 10:33am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Die grinder sound. High speed with air power.
      
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      November 27, 2023 11:54am
  - Local Miller
    
    First Rule of Operating Theatres: Never say “oops” in an operating theatre.
    
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    November 27, 2023 10:12am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      What about that “F” word?
      
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      November 27, 2023 12:01pm
      - Local Miller
        
        I think the “F” word is covered under the 2nd rule.
        
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        November 27, 2023 2:06pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Custer’s last words “Oh fuck”
      
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      November 27, 2023 12:51pm
    - mawm
      
      Local – I heard that one never said “oops” at a bris.
      
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      November 27, 2023 6:31pm
  - jonno1
    
    I had a spinal to reattach a foot that had fallen off. Noisy, yes, but what annoyed me was the curtain blocking my vision. Anyway, the anaesthetist said he carries a sign ‘Patient is awake’, as surgeons can be quite, err, jokey at times.
    
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    November 27, 2023 10:16am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Especially after you told them your foot fell off!
      
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      November 27, 2023 2:14pm
  - wsk12345
    
    No it’s awesome getting to watch! My colonoscopy was fascinating, after two doses of sedative I was still wide awake so they acceded to my fervent request to watch. Being clean as a whistle in there they resorted to a geographic tour of where my appendix etc was. I’d do it again tomorrow. Unfortunately as a very healthy person I’ve had no opportunity since then to view any other surgery on myself. My dentist does show me as much as he can in a screen.
    
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    November 27, 2023 10:40am
    - David Garrett
      
      wsk: I have had three colonoscopies and watched them all…the first one was before they put it up on a screen, so I had to have a look through the eye piece thingie… While I was semi awake I was still drowsy, so confused the entrance to the small intestine with my asshole (which of course I couldn’t see because the tube was up it)
      
      I remember asking “what is that fuzzy brown thing?” and the surgeon dryly saying “a piece of shit”…
      
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      November 27, 2023 3:35pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Several years ago I finally decided to get my wisdom teeth removed. I was one of those rare people who never suffered any pain or discomfort when they punched through in my… late teens??
    
    Pity really because they did make my bottom teeth crooked, but when you’ve got toothless parents (courtesy of the Slump, WWII and just general poor dental health in those days), having all your teeth was regarded as a bonus.
    
    Anyhoo… since I’d be getting local I told my dentist that instead of having stupid, one-sided conversations, she should treat me as a dental student, explaining each step and tool in the procedure. Told her that coming from a farm meant I had no problems with blood and burning flesh.
    
    The result was a really interesting couple of hours. When she picked up the rather large stainless steel chisel I was impressed: even more so when she started really hammering it into my gumline!!!
    
    I still tease her to this day that I saw her do a little dance when I agreed to have them taken out, thus confirming that all dentists are sadists. 🙂
    
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    November 27, 2023 1:36pm
- david
  
  When I woke up from a knee replacement, I told the surgeon that I had gone through a semi-awake phase and asked why they allowed a construction crew into the theatre while surgery was in progress, there was a hell of a lot of sawing, hammering and banging going on.
  His simple reply was “oh that was just us!”
  
  Says it all really.
  
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  November 27, 2023 11:56am
Sacha

One surgeon I knew always insisted in silence while the patient was being anaesthetised – the convention being that hearing is always the last of the 5 senses to leave the patient.
Did you ask him later where the nick was ?
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November 27, 2023 8:19am
- krazykiwi
  
  Interesting. No, didn’t ask. I assumed the nerve being blocked and the jugular are close.
  
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  November 27, 2023 8:52am
  - Biscuit
    
    I once scratched myself on a blackberry bush.
    
    The P-A-I-N…
    
    Most of which came from the Mercurochrome my Mum applied to the wound, heh…
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:39am
- Local Miller
  
  “One surgeon I knew always insisted in silence while the patient was being anaesthetised” – I suspect, except for something that could cause a fatality, like nicking the jugular.
  
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  November 27, 2023 10:15am
  - imalwaysright
    
    It’s like Leper valley round here . Body parts everywhere
    
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    November 27, 2023 12:54pm
- Keith White
  
  You are entirely correct. Hearing is the last sense to diminish. Why so many patients in Intensive Care can feed back all the romantic tribulations of some of the duty ICU nurses when they wake up 🙂
  
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  November 27, 2023 2:27pm
  - Fisiani2
    
    I worked in a hospital with a surgeon who opened up an abdomen and shouted “Inoperable” and then simply closed up.
    The patient eventually woke up crying. I wonder why?…….
    
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    November 29, 2023 1:51pm
Gussy Fink-Nottle

Seymour on the wireless this morning talking about security of NZ’s fuel supply.
This is arguably more important than anything our government has attempted to address over the last 6 years.
It feels like I’ve woken up from a long and terrible dream.
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November 27, 2023 8:26am
- kowtow
  
  What did he have to say ?
  
  I know that he was against intervention in the refinery closure .
  
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  November 27, 2023 8:47am
  - peterwn
    
    And refinery retention would not have necessarily increased fuel supply security. Refinery still needs crude oil to operate. Jacinda’s edict has adversely affected NZ’s fuel supply security and has done lasting harm to NZ.
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:23am
    - David Garrett
      
      Peter: Not quite. NZ crude is too waxy to be refined here, so it was always sent to Singapore, while we imported crude from elsewhere to feed our refinery.
      
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      November 27, 2023 10:46am
      - peterwn
        
        Quite right! And from someone with hands-on experience in the oil game. That matter crossed my mind but I wanted to keep my post simple.
        
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        November 27, 2023 2:34pm
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      Peterwn, excuse the numbers as I don’t have the exact amounts involved, but from a supply chain perspective there is a big difference between 5 shipfuls of crude coming in each week and 5 ships bringing a single item of refined fuel each. For lower volume fuels eg Avgas, this could mean one shipment every 2-3 weeks rather than a % of each shipment every 1-2 days.
      
      A one off issue with the bulk shipment will be covered by the other shipments. Whereas a one off issue with the avgas may see the tanks run dry before the next delivery.
      
      While this is all hypothetical it illustrates that the risk of supply chain disruption increases with the length of the supply chain, the complexity involved and the amount of agility/flexibility that is inherently in the system.
      
      eg Tweaking the refinery to produce more of one grade of fuel will be more agile than trying to arrange an entire shipment of that grade.
      
      Crude shipments are obtainable from a number of different sources. The model has been shown to be robust over many years. As long as well maintained the refinery was a strategic asset and more should have been done to retain it. It was lost in part due to the ideologically driven Queen of the Captains Call, as was our own production of oil and gas, and as you state has done lasting damage to our country.
      
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      November 27, 2023 1:05pm
- Ian Boag
  
  We now import petrol diesel jet fuel and bitumen. We used to import the (Middle Eastern) crude that it was made from. Processing was done in a refinery that was small and uneconomic by world standards. Otherwise it would not have been closed.
  
  Using NZ crude was never an option.
  
  So should we have subidised the cost of running an uneconomic refinery or just nationalised it? Either way the cost of petroleum products would have gone up.
  
  Go figure.
  
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  November 27, 2023 8:53am
  - RoboRob
    
    We used to have two suppliers of CO2, one of which was the afore mentioned refinery. Instead of looking at how to make the refinery economic (and I am not sure it wasn’t), we instead created a monopoly of CO2 supply and massively hurt NZ consumers.
    
    We used to be able to re process fauly fuel supplies, now we need to wait for another shipment and cancel flights.
    
    Go figure.
    
    p.s. The oil companies wanted it closed, they can fiddle the books and make anything look economic or un economic. As they do with retail petrol stations.
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:03am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      That happened with a ship load of av-gas. Dunno how much. It could have been refined into diesel I think.
      Wonder if sending that back cost NZ?
      
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      November 27, 2023 9:21am
      - Master Mariner
        
        The interesting thing with Av Gas ( High octane ) is the very limited shelf life.
        I am assuming? Av Gas arriving in NZ will have to be used asap, ie A “Just in Time” supply chain.
        
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        November 27, 2023 9:47am
      - Ian Boag
        
        ship load of av-gas
        
        I think the shipment you are talking about was avtur – the kerosene that runs jets/turboprops. It can be blended into diesel. In fact you can just run a diesel engine on the stuff …
        
        There would have been no need to send it back
        
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        November 27, 2023 10:22am
      - Jack5
        
        Ian Boag in his 8.53 post points out the Whangarei refinery was uncompetitive with international refining costs.
        
        At the moment these are lower than we could do in NZ. However, these fluctuate, especially in supply crises.
        
        The New Zealand Refining Company, which owned and closed the refinery and converted facilities into an import-only terminal, changed its name last year to Channel Infrastructure NZ Ltd. It’s fairly widely owned, but Mobil Oil NZ and Ampol’s Z Energy own just over a a quarter between them.
        
        Ampol was stopped from closing its Australian refinery by the Australian Government, which put up more than $NZ2 billion to keep working its refinery and the Viva Energy refinery.
        
        The ground was security of supply, and that’s what any debate about closing the Marsden refinery is about.
        
        China opened two big refineries this year, and will open another two next year. New refineries are opening, or have just opened, in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq, and Oman.
        
        In a crisis, NZ’s a long sea time from the big refineries, and do we have the economic and political pull to get to the top of a supply queue?
        
        Here’s a take on the over-all prospects for oil refineries:
        
        https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/What-The-Future-Holds-For-Oil-Refiners.html
        
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        November 27, 2023 11:37am
    - david
      
      Hey, but isn’t it CO2 that is killing the planet?
      How dare we !!!!!
      
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      November 27, 2023 10:12pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    “small and uneconomic … Otherwise it would not have been closed”
    
    Wrong, Ian. ’twas ideology what dunnit.
    
    And if you look more closely, Blackrock have their- grubby hands all over it.
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:17am
    - Ian Boag
      
      The company did not ask for government intervention to keep its refinery going.
      
      So what was this “ideology” thing that led to closure?
      
      I tried a google on Blackrock/NZ oil refinery but it didn’t get me anywhere. So if you could point me at their grubby fingers ……
      
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      November 27, 2023 10:18am
      - Master Mariner
        
        The Australian CEO was “inserted” with the sole aim of closing it down, I have seen the interview.
        With her comments , It would be hard to assume otherwise.
        
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        November 27, 2023 10:36am
  - Master Mariner
    
    I don’t know where to start or Finish Ian,
    The refined price is more vulnerable too price shocks than Oil/bbl Costs.
    With a refinery you can “refine” Fuel too an exact specification, ie Quality control.
    We are currently importing small parcels of refined products which depends on the quality of each refinery it comes from, Not too mention the extremely high costs of bringing in Av Gas, Petrol, Diesol etc.
    In addition Fertiliser products etc etc.
    What’s more important Ian, Cheap shit fuel or Quality specification fuel.?
    If I’m at sea ( Which I currently am) I want too rely on the fuel being a certain standard, Same as a plane etc.
    It is about security, Mainly fuel security which NZ heavily relies on. In case people do not realise , Diesel is the lifeblood of NZ economy.
    On aside note, Look at what is happening in the Middle East, In Particular the Gulf of Aden ( Entry / exist Suez cannal),
    https://www.tradewindsnews.com/tankers/israel-linked-tanker-boarded-by-suspected-houthi-rebels-as-middle-east-tensions-escalate/2-1-1560731
    “Using NZ crude is not an option” , Pretty much correct however without exploration we will never find a heavy crude Oil. Its bound too be around somewhere Iam sure as opposed to our light Oil/ Condensate etc.
    It Should have been as intended a “STRATEGIC ASSET” and owned by NZ citizens. Never privatised in the first place.
    Regarding costs of products going up regardless, You again incorrect. Its the cost of “Refined products ” going up because of a lack of REFINERIES world wide. The refined price is more unstable than price per bbl of oil ( 80 $ /bbl).
    Scorched earth policy by the Labour Government .
    Economic Sabotage,
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:28am
    - Ian Boag
      
      It Should have been as intended a “STRATEGIC ASSET” and owned by NZ citizens. Never privatised in the first place.
      
      Unlike the telcos , power companies and airline and stuff.
      
      Scorched earth policy by the Labour Government
      
      It was closed by the (private) owners. Funnily enough, smaller refineries in Oz have been closed as well.
      
      heavy crude Oil. Its bound too be around somewhere I am sure
      
      Never been a sniff if it in the last umpty years, but I guess we can hope.
      
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      November 27, 2023 10:08am
      - Master Mariner
        
        I give up, Believe what you like Ian. Good luck.
        
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        November 27, 2023 11:04am
      - Jack5
        
        Re Ian Boag at 10.08: … smaller refineries in Oz have been closed as well …
        
        See my 11.37 post above about the Australian Government keeping the last two refineries open for strategic reasons.
        
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        November 27, 2023 12:03pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    We now import petrol diesel jet fuel and bitumen
    
    And surprise, surprise… that imported bitumen lasts for less than 2 weeks on all the patch-up holes on our roads.
    
    I cannot ever recall seeing as many potholes on our roads when Marsden was supplying our bitumen.
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:35am
    - Master Mariner
      
      No specification , No quality. Not too mention the extremely high costs of transportation.
      As all Fuel products arriving in NZ, Its a lucky dip regarding quality.
      
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      November 27, 2023 9:49am
      - David Garrett
        
        Master: You may know the answer to this question: why do we not have concrete roads – at least on the motorways and double carriage-ways -as is the case in the US, and I think the UK?
        
        100 years ago I drove 20,000 miles around the US, and can’t remember seeing more than a handful of road works going on – never on any of the interstates.
        
        Mind You I was stoned most of the time so may have missed them…
        
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        November 27, 2023 10:51am
      - Master Mariner
        
        I don’t really know either David,
        
        I can only assume at the cost of cement. However I believe most now imported from China ( Holcim) apart from Golden Bay Cement here.
        
        Again Quality control of cement imported would be problematic I assume ?
        
        Apart from Co2 emissions in making concrete //, I can only assume the cost of it , And the ease of laying ashfelt instead.
        
        On a side note, Sand ain’t sand. I always thought Golden Bay Beach sand would make the best concrete. Rough and Coarse. Great binding properties.
        
        Also the riches person in Africa , Made his money in concrete. Nigerian I believe.
        
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        November 27, 2023 11:13am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        DG. I remember concrete roads in Mt Wellington. We used to visit Nana in Stanhope Rd.
        The roads were built by the Americans in and around WW2 according to my Dad.
        
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        November 27, 2023 12:07pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        DG: Re concrete, at one time I believed the lack of concrete was short-sighted cost reduction, but I have since learned from a road engineer that New Zealand’s terrain and seismic conditions make concrete an unsuitable base layer (bitumen-style surface is applied to most concrete-based roads)
        
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        November 27, 2023 12:29pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        No specification , No quality
        
        Wot? They just buy any old thick black stuff and call bitumen when it should just be used for running your ship …. Ditto (no ship) for avgas, motor spirit and diesel … ? No spec and send us whatever ….
        
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        November 27, 2023 7:04pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    Here is a great tool regarding NZ prices relative too other countries,
    https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/New-Zealand/diesel_prices/
    Look at the graph and see the uncertainty regarding Refined prices ( After closure ) and pre closure of NZ refinery.
    ie difference between pricing oil/bbl and refined prices from Timbuctoo.//
    
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    November 27, 2023 10:49am
  - JJ56
    
    The main strategic case for keeping a small refinery in NZ is its potential role as a bio refinery. We have a good residue wood supply that once converted to biocrude needs upgrading. Many of the necessary processes existed in Marsden Pt, and at about the right scale.
    
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    November 27, 2023 11:28am
  - GJM
    
    As part of the Z takeover, Ampol wanted the refinery closed as they wanted the production in their Australian refineries. The other companies are the same. Running NZ as a state of Australia has a long tradition…
    
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    November 27, 2023 4:53pm
- Master Mariner
  
  Some one should tell NZ’ers about the sham of Banning Oil/Gas,
  This is where Ideology meets reality.
  https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/ESG-Moment-of-Truth-Turns-Tables-for-Big-Oil.html
  
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  November 27, 2023 10:01am
- Paulus
  
  Marsden Point was a Commercial decision and nothing to do with Government.
  
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  November 27, 2023 11:21am
  - Jack5
    
    I doubt that the Government didn’t take careful note, given that the Australian Government intervened in the closing of Australia’s last two refineries.
    
    Labour was too stupid to give due balance to strategic reasons for keeping the refinery.
    
    Also it was anti-oil in line with Mad Jacinda’s close-down of oil and gas exploration.
    
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    November 27, 2023 12:07pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Good he is onto this! How effing thick were the bloody clown show on that issue!!! Nothing is certain in this world. BE PREPARED as the poop may hit the fan at any time!
  
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  November 27, 2023 7:02pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Don’t blame Trump, you are stuck with these two shitheads.
Free speech test. It is legal.
Some leftie woman going on about ‘what about the children?’ Well the kids are living in isolation if they can’t understand this!

https://freedomclash.com/the-instant-they-put-up-this-billboard-they-knew-it-would-make-the-front-page-5/
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November 27, 2023 8:28am
- NZer In Exile
  
  Compare Kamala with celebs who admit to regularly smoking weed.
  
  I’m seeing incredible similarities.
  
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  November 27, 2023 7:04pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Another guy that is a bit of a dagg with his billboard/signs.

https://freedomclash.com/they-told-this-pizza-shop-owner-he-better-take-down-his-sign-his-response-was-perfect-5/
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November 27, 2023 8:31am
- peterwn
  
  He should share publicity experiences with Hell Pizza (eg ‘Hell is too Good for Some People’).
  
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  November 27, 2023 9:33am
- Tom Hunter
  
  One of my faves was some car lot owner in Wellington near the Basin Reserve. Around 1989/90 there was some case where a fairly well known worthy (nightclub owner I think?) died after trying to swallow cocaine to avoid the cops grabbing him with it for an easy conviction.
  
  The sign at the car yard on Monday morning for thousands of commuters to see:
  
  YOU CAN’T HAVE YOUR COKE AND EAT IT TOO!
  
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  November 27, 2023 1:41pm
  - Swifty
    
    Manny Padadopolous, he owned and ran Manny’s restaurant.
    
    Best fried calamari in town.
    
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    November 27, 2023 2:37pm
Maggie Pie

Duck hunting season ?

‘NZ First leader Winston Peters says former Speaker of the House, Trevor Mallard, should never have been named the next Ambassador to Ireland’

– NZ Horrid (26 Aug. 2022)

Time to get out the Duck Call 😀

https://pixabay.com/sound-effects/duck-quacker-65590/
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November 27, 2023 8:34am
- Ipanema69
  
  Typical Peters, but will he actually sack Mallard?
  
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  November 27, 2023 8:37am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    Mallard is an example of someone who is well past their use by date being given a cushy job by their mates, for which they are entirely unsuited.
    
    Can you imagine why Peters might not want to establish a precedent of people like that being sacked when the other side takes over?
    
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    November 27, 2023 8:56am
    - igm
      
      Do not overlook Goff, he is another greaser out of his depth.
      
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      November 27, 2023 9:04am
      - Paulus
        
        Have not been told why Goff was not accepted and approved as US Ambassador.
        He publically expected to get it but he was not to get it so all hushed up – Why ?
        The then UK Ambassador, a Professional, moved to the USA, and he got London instead.
        
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        November 27, 2023 11:27am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Has he sincerely apologised for spitting on conscripted soldiers who actually had to endure being shot at, while he did not put his butt on the line at all?
        
        Until he does he should be banned from any public service role.
        
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        November 27, 2023 7:09pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      To give Winston credit, he always opposed giving ex politicians jobs as ambassadors.
      
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      November 27, 2023 9:24am
      - peterwn
        
        This is the big tragedy with Winston and for New Zealand. He seemed too impetuous and impatient politically. He was marked as a future National Prime Minister until he broke ranks with his Caucus. With a bit more patience and diplomacy he could have become one of NZ’s great leaders while still having fun.
        
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        November 27, 2023 2:39pm
    - peterwn
      
      Labour appointed Hugh Watt (a senior long term Labour Minister) to London in 1975 and when Rob Muldoon became PM he ordered Hugh to return to NZ. Hugh initially resisted but had to succumb. I cannot remember any similar instances.
      
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      November 27, 2023 2:32pm
  - Biscuit
    
    Ipan, on Planet Biscuit it would be a requirement of diplomats who were (like Mallard, Goff, King) politically-appointed that they would tender their resignations once an election had rejected the party that politically-appointed them.
    
    Even if just as a matter of courtesy.
    
    You would hope that an incoming Government would have the nous to say ‘Ta, but stay to the end of your term!’ to most – not all, Trevor! – of the hacks involved because, of course, in three years’ time their own appointees might well be on the way out.
    
    In these days of t’internet and Zoom, anyway, why do we really NEED foreign diplomats – other than to have their bums sat in offices to tend to NZ tourists who have struck strife?
    
    These days, after all, it is v. rare for there to be glaring differences on foreign policy amongst the two leading parties…
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:06am
    - pdm
      
      Biscuit would you really want Mallard trying to save your sorry arse if you were in trouble with the Garda?
      
      He would probably finish up in the same cell as you so you would be far worse off!!
      
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      November 27, 2023 9:57am
      - Biscuit
        
        pdm, my arse isn’t ‘sorry’…
        
        :: Puts on his Campbell/Tame/Mutch/O’Brien whiny voice::
        It has won AWARDS
        
        Anyways, give Trev is due – Ireland hasn’t declared war on New Zealnad under his Ambassadorship.
        
        Yet.
        
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        November 27, 2023 10:18am
      - Matt Long
        
        PDM, why would anyone visit the Emerald Isle whilst Mallard is in residence?
        Let the Garda look after their own and wish Mallard a long unpleasant stay.
        
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        November 27, 2023 11:36am
    - peterwn
      
      “…other than to have their bums sat in offices to tend to NZ tourists who have struck strife?”
      You are confusing diplomatic and consular functions. Some embassies no longer offer consular services (passports, visas, assistance and other routine matters) eg US Embassy in Wellington does not offer consular services – you have to deal with the US Consul in Auckland. The main task of diplomats is to maintain high level relationships with politicians and government agencies in the host country.
      
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      November 27, 2023 8:44pm
- Paulus
  
  Mallard insisted he got Ireland, as his family lived there.
  Hopefully do not expect him to return to New Zealand except for his huge pension.
  
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  November 27, 2023 11:23am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump goes to the Border and walks away with an endorsement from Gov Gregg Abbott. He was also there to help serve an early Thanksgiving meal to the Texas Nation Guard.

https://conservativeundergroundnews.com/the-republican-establishment-is-furious-after-donald-trump-made-one-visit-to-the-border-and-walked-away-with-this-important-endorsement/?
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November 27, 2023 8:38am
Yvette

It has been seven years since the campylobacter outbreak in Havelock North.
Three Waters was the former Labour government’s solution to improving water services.

Media still (this morning’s example) cite Havelock North, but monitoring water quality was a health department duty now performed by Taumata Arowai, which the Ardern / Hipkins Labour Government established December 15, 2021 with no huha because it was the first pou [pillar] of their Three Waters agenda.

Christopher Luxon has said they will replace Three Waters but keep Taumata Arowai, the official Water Regulator. However he has said nothing I am aware of (which of course has limitations) about keeping Te Puna, the Tipa Mahuta chaired Maori Advisory Council which presides over Taumata Arowai, or do away with the Maori worldview ideology Te Ao Maori, since the New Zealand Government is supposedly secular.

There is perhaps a little explaining needed of recent history – Taumata Arowai, Te Ao Maori, Te Mana o te Wai, and Maori only Te Mana o te Wai Statements – all of which Labour was more than a little hesitant in drawing any attention to – putting it generously and politely.
_________________
reference – Maori exclusivity and religious Mana o te Wai agenda: The Unbridled Power of Te Mana o te Wai https://www.thedailyexaminer.co.nz/the-unbridled-power-of-te-mana-o-te-wai/
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November 27, 2023 8:43am
- Benedict Yu
  
  What I would like to know. Has anyone seen a te mana o te Wai statement? Has anyone seen a worked example of the impacts of such a statement on the quality and availability of water? I have searched in vain.
  
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  November 27, 2023 8:53am
  - Yvette
    
    A wise and fundamental question, Benedict, which I myself have often wondered (please excuse the self-aggrandisement) –
    
    [In Te Mana o te Wai statements] … anything and everything can be included without limit. These statements can of course be issued [only] by mana whenua – defined by the Bill as being the iwi or hapū holding and exercising, in accordance with tikanga, authority or other customary rights or interests in that area. – Thomas Cranmer
    
    I can not now give a link, but I have seen a paper where Maori proposed commercial water users be excluded from Maori water conferences on allocation of water for commercial use.
    
    I guess such a notion could end up as a Mana o the Wai statement, or Tuku Morgan’s statements relating to the taking of the person – their ancestor – who is the Waikato River for Auckland water needs can not go on.
    
    This unbridled expression of kaitiakitanga given to every iwi and hapū in the country and funded by ratepayers threatens to totally overwhelm the water services entities. And of course this is all completely untested. No-one has any idea whether this is workable until the system is implemented – at which time it will affect New Zealand’s entire water infrastructure. Enough however is known now to suggest that this would be a monumental disaster for the country were this ever to be attempted. – Cranmer
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:18am
    - JJ56
      
      I have been musing over how one acquires “tikanga, authority or other customary rights or interests in that area.”
      
      I suspect the inalienable rights that seem to be attached to these are very much a colonial construct – Te Rauparaha for one wasn’t too bothered by such quaint arrangements.
      
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      November 27, 2023 11:46am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Benedict
    
    It wouldn’t surprise if “te mana o te Wai” is what an iwi writes on the top of their invoice in order to give their extortion demand an air of legality.
    
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    November 27, 2023 10:17am
- RoboRob
  
  Taumata Arowai, Te Ao Maori, Te Mana o te Wai, and Maori only Te Mana o te Wai Statements
  
  Wow, the naming of these organisations really helps the public understand them and identify their purpose doesn’t it? Its almost like they dont want you to know.
  
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  November 27, 2023 9:08am
  - Yvette
    
    RoboRob, to illuminate your life with light
    
    Taumata is a term associated with a summit, symposium or congress. Taumata invokes a sense of protection, leadership and wisdom. Aro means to give attention to, to focus on, or be in the presence of. Wai is water.
    
    Te ao Māori emphasises the importance of relationships between nature and people. It is a holistic worldview that focuses on interconnections and is grounded in tikanga customary values and lore and mātauranga knowledge.
    
    Te Mana o Te Wai represents a paradigm shift. It speaks to the need to re-balance and approach freshwater management from first principles – what does the water need to be healthy and well; what does the water need to sustain itself?
    
    statements should perhaps be replaced with “proclamations” which are to be acted on by 3 Waters entities, or were …
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:59am
    - RoboRob
      
      So a whole bunch of crap. So its ‘we want clean, safe water’.
      
      p.s. I’m not trying to be racist here, I hate this over complication in all forms of life. In my work I often read multiple page documents that eseential say ‘we want x to be sent to y’. So much time wasted trying to understand / get to the point.
      
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      November 27, 2023 10:55am
    - RoboRob
      
      Aussie has them too. Funnily I was thinking about this on the way home last Friday. I think the issue is the way we cost roads and the infrastructure below them.
      
      We dont look at the long term cost, only the initial cost. We also routinely chop open our roads to replace / maintain pipes, fibre internet etc.
      
      Around Christcurch the roads are generally covered in patches where they have been dug up for one reason or other. I guess in other countries they mainly use concrete on motorways that dont have infrastructure burried beneath them.
      
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      November 27, 2023 11:09am
- pdm
  
  My understanding as a Hastings Ratepayer is that the Hastings water revamp to prevent a recurrence was completed last year at a cost of about $200million.
  
  3/5/10/All Mahuta Waters projected costing $600million plus!!!
  
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  November 27, 2023 9:10am
Handyman

The Green Party is raising a petition to stop the government from rescinding (love that word! Who will be the first MP to use it in the house?) the ban on gas exploration.
Wait for Shaw to blather on about the “will of the people” and National being all anti-democratic about ramming through legislation removing the ban.

No one does hypocrisy like the left.
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November 27, 2023 8:51am
- I remember when
  
  Why not a petition on whether people want the government to allow oil exploration or not.
  Nobody that wants exploration to resume gets a chance to express their opinion.
  
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  November 27, 2023 9:24am
  - Master Mariner
    
    I can never understand the Ban on Oil exploration.
    
    If you are that concerned, Then Ban all Service stations, Cars, Tractors , Ships, Planes from useing Petroleum products etc etc.
    
    Nope, Did’nt think so.
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:36am
    - Swifty
      
      Ban all plastic. Ban all synthetic fabric. Ban all synthetic fertiliser.
      
      They literally drip with their hypocrisy.
      
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      November 27, 2023 9:56am
      - David Garrett
        
        Swifty: I suspect that the vast majority of the “Just stop oil” numpties haven’t the faintest clue that it is literally an inextricable part of our way of life, in the ways you have referred to, and many others.
        
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        November 27, 2023 10:58am
    - alwyn.a
      
      Unless it has greatly improved in quality we could ban all ships that use heavy fuel oil.
      The amount of sulphur the fuel contained was appalling.
      How long would it take to retrain crews to handle a square-rigged ship with three masts?
      
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      November 27, 2023 11:24am
      - Master Mariner
        
        Great point.
        SECA ( sulphur emmissions control area) , You have to comply with fuel standards ( read low emmissions).
        IMO , A UN organisation are trying to set the standards.
        It really is a cluster, Making anmouncements and impossible too conform in most countries.
        The outcome, is most ship owners are reluctant to build new builds for lasting 15- 20 years when they dont know what the rules will be.
        Ie Rudderless.
        NZ Will struggle to supply Marine fuels with no refinery.
        Take Diesel for example. You would need to import 3 to 4 different grades.
        Heavy fuel , the same.
        See the problem ?
        Oil aint oil.
        Sorry on phone and no links to attach.
        
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        November 27, 2023 2:38pm
- nathie
  
  The Greens are (thankfully) too dumb for words.
  
  Imagine if they stopped being Labour’s poodle and negotiated coalition deals with National – perhaps they could then influence outcomes?
  
  Thankfully for us that will never happen, as the far-left radical social justice Greens are not a true environmental party and would rather self-destruct/splinter rather than contemplate partnering up with anyone other than Labour!
  
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  November 27, 2023 10:20am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Nathie
    The greens are communists mate. Don’t overthink it.
    
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    November 27, 2023 11:11am
- Local Miller
  
  I notice it’s a petition, not a survey. It’s relatively easy to get people to sign a petition, but if they did a survey I bet the results would be quite different.
  
  Maybe something for DPF and Curia to do.
  
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  November 27, 2023 10:30am
- RoboRob
  
  I mean come on, we should have just as much discussion about removing the ban as we had when Labour wanted to implement it.
  
  oh wait…
  
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  November 27, 2023 11:02am
Maggie Pie

Driving home from the beach yesterday listening to Nicola Willis interview on ZB.
My partner reckons he’s in love 😀

Never ever once heard him say that about Robbo.
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November 27, 2023 8:53am
- kevn
  
  Maggie… Luxon came over quite well with Hosking this morning. The mood of thinking NZer’s has certainly lifted.
  
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  November 27, 2023 9:12am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  [Mod – don’t try posting that again]
  
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  November 27, 2023 11:21am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Should Trump’s trials be televised? Fed Court Rules don’t allow this, change the rules, otherwise the World is being fed second hand corrupted accounts from the Biden Admin.
The Biden Dept of Justice is against this. Can’t have the witch hunts and charades exposed.
Remember the current is a trial with no Jury, and the Judge has already determined the outcome. He wants Trump in jail for the Election.
When Trump wins 2024 there will be a few sorry arses.

https://conservativeundergroundnews.com/donald-trump-took-everyone-by-surprise-with-this-decision-about-his-criminal-indictment/?
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November 27, 2023 8:53am
- RoboRob
  
  I believe Trumps Lawyers had the choice of a Jury trial and eith choose not to or stuffed up the application.
  
  If they change the rules around televising this stuff that opens it up for all trials. There are good reasons to not show trials.
  
  Personally I think Trump will loose ALL of his current (4?) trials. He will then appeal and at least three will be reversed or the penalties significantly reduced. In most cases he has openly hostle Judges and juries. To me Georgia has it the one that is most dangerous to him and, IMO, the one most likely to succeed and ‘stick’.
  
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  November 27, 2023 9:18am
  - All_on_Red
    
    ‘Former President Donald Trump did not request a jury for his New York civil fraud trial, but even if he had asked for one, the answer would’ve been “no,” a judge said Wednesday.’
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-trial-no-jury-fraud-new-york-judge-arthur-engoron/
    
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    November 27, 2023 12:43pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    GEnerally agree with your final para, though I think the classified documents case has more legs.
    
    Georgia case is dodgy as fuck. Lots of prosecutorial overreach, massive overcharging to blackmail co-defendants into turning against Trump, and all sorts of documentented rottenness in the electoral process.
    
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    November 27, 2023 1:22pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      Some recent detailing of Georgia 2020 election dodginess, some still working through the courts:
      https://theleadingreport.com/bombshell-vote-recount-in-georgia-finds-raffensperger-failed-to-report-election-results/
      
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      November 27, 2023 2:43pm
- MCōs
  
  The judge doesn’t have the option of jail in the current case, from what I understand.
  
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  November 27, 2023 9:19am
  - Local Miller
    
    No, you’ve not been following this closely enough. The judge ruled that a jury trial wouldn’t happen.
    
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    November 27, 2023 10:32am
    - RichardX
      
      Have you read that ruling?
      
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      November 27, 2023 2:27pm
  - virtualmark
    
    The NY fraud trial is a civil case. The Trump Organisation has already been found guilty, and the trial is just to determine the size of the financial penalty. But there is no risk of jail time.
    
    The DC “Jan 6” case is a criminal case. There is a risk of jail time there, although there’s also the option that a future Republican President could pardon or commute.
    
    The Florida “confidential documents” case is a criminal trial. There is a risk of jail time there, but Judge Cannon appears determined to ensure that case takes years to come to trial. Trump could well be dead before the trial and all appeals are done.
    
    The Georgia “election interference” case is a criminal case. There is a large risk of jail time there, and no possibility of a pardon.
    
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    November 27, 2023 12:55pm
Swifty

I think we are witnessing one man’s slow descent into madness:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/the-unsurprising-surprises-of-the-coalition-deal-makes-for-interesting-times/ZXG6RFK6KVD6TLSTY6HZB3BTZE/

Rob Campbell’s thoughts are increasingly all over the place.

I’d add from my personal perspective, at no stage have New Zealanders ever formally or informally directed our successive governments that we want them to take on a role of providing equity – everyone having roughly the same life outcomes.

I in fact specifically reject it. Doing so hands governments far, far too much power and control over our lives. Power and control that plays into socialist’s hands and which they will inevitably abuse.

I also think it highly, highly unlikely equity in life outcomes is even achievable – at the very least not without ceding to governments all manner of freedoms and liberties that will necessarily have to be sacrificed to enable it.

Just as an aside, what grand socialist programmes implemented in New Zealand over the last 50 or 60 years have actually been successful? That have been fully realised and then the government departments responsible rendered unnecessary and subsequently closed down as redundant to our future needs?

I say there are none. Not a single one. Nothing ever gets ‘solved’ they only ever get ‘serviced’ while the initial problem more often than not actually gets bigger.

Equity will go exactly the same way. Never to be solved but now with an army of vested interests feeding off the taxpayer money taken to pursue it.

As for Rob Campbell’s screed today all I can do is remind him, and New Zealanders, that “The road to ruin is paved with good intentions….”
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November 27, 2023 8:54am
- I remember when
  
  take on a role of providing equity –
  
  Let’s all be Prime Minister!!
  
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  November 27, 2023 9:19am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    or let’s all be waste/rubbish collection operatives.
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:44am
- krazykiwi
  
  We should strive to provide equality of opportunity and we should accept that equality of outcome will never happen. Our progress as a race has depended on unequal outcomes.
  
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  November 27, 2023 9:21am
- MCōs
  
  “Just as an aside, what grand socialist programmes implemented in New Zealand over the last 50 or 60 years have actually been successful?”
  ACC
  Cheap prescriptions
  Bowel screening
  Mammograms
  Smear tests
  Shingle vaccine at age 65
  
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  November 27, 2023 9:24am
  - Swifty
    
    You’ve mentioned some medical treatments which are neither socialist nor change programmes, but I agree that they have been successful.
    
    ACC? What, you mean like it’s stopped accidents from happening?
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:41am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      ACC have certainly fucked up some engineering workshops.
      Extra guards on a pressbrake so you can’t use the machine. I just turned off the magic eye. Guard around a hole punch so you can’t use it. Only take the guard off when you need the machine. Replace it when finished. Same with the notcher at the other end.
      You can not run a workshop with that sort of shit.
      
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      November 27, 2023 12:21pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        I think ACC is distinct from the destructive invasion of the safety elves
        
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        November 27, 2023 1:24pm
      - Dudley Quaffquaff
        
        Ďo you think this sort of thing would get better if people who were injured because of poor safety at work, or as a result of using an unsafe product, had to sue their employer, or the manufacturer, for the expenses caused by the injury?
        
        Tell you who would absolutely love that – lawyers. Everybody else, not so much.
        
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        November 27, 2023 2:38pm
    - MCōs
      
      Why aren’t they ‘socialist’?
      According to a certain sector of society anything paid for in whole or subsidized by the taxpayer is ‘socialist’ by definition, isn’t it?
      
      Just so you know ACC helps people who have had an accident
      
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      November 27, 2023 5:00pm
  - waikatosinger
    
    Calling ACC a Labour initiative is rewriting history.
    
    Workers compensation in New Zealand dates from 1900 when the first scheme was established under Seddon (a Liberal government – Labour didn’t exist then).
    
    ACC in its current form was set up following the recommendation of the Woodhouse report 1967 which was commissioned to review worker’s compensation in the Holyoake era (a National government).
    
    The implementing legislation was the accident compensation act of 1972. It went through parliament in October 1972 under the Marshall government (also National).
    
    ACC started operations two years later in 1974 in the Kirk era (Labour). So yes – Labour was involved. But calling ACC a Labour initiative is absurd.
    
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    November 27, 2023 6:17pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    national super?
    
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    November 27, 2023 7:23pm
- artemisia
  
  Mr Campbell quotes Warren Buffet – “As I read through them [coalition policies] I was reminded of investor Warren Buffet’s aphorism that it’s only when the tide goes out that you can see who has been swimming with no clothes on.”
  
  A tide has just gone out. I rest my case.
  
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  November 27, 2023 4:23pm
  - Swifty
    
    Hahahahaha!
    
    Yes, quite.
    
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    November 27, 2023 5:07pm
imalwaysright

Late night bulk shopping (ramraids ) will hopefully decline when Costco Coster gets the sack.
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November 27, 2023 9:05am
- riffer
  
  The most recent police statistics released this week show 154 fewer between January and October in 2023 than during the same time last year.
  
  So, it could be argued that whatever was done last year while people were complaining has had an effect.
  
  Would be kind of difficult to fire Coster for that result. You might want to look somewhere else.
  
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  November 27, 2023 9:30am
  - Local Miller
    
    A drop of 154 sounds excellent, doesn’t it?
    
    Not when you view this against a backdrop of 707 ram raids in 2022. To get a true picture of the state of crime in NZ you need to see the whole picture, not just the stats that make things look “good”.
    
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    November 27, 2023 10:40am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I don’t think he can be sacked. He could resign sure.
  His term ends April 2nd 2025 according to the google machine.
  
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  November 27, 2023 9:40am
  - lifesgood
    
    Ah, but he’ll have to answer to Mark Mitchell. Such fun, such fun.
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:59am
    - David Garrett
      
      lifesgood: Yeah…you’d like to be a fly on the wall in those meetings wouldn’t you??
      
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      November 27, 2023 11:01am
I remember when

Chris Trotter’s article a ‘Can of Worms’ sums up the point of the Treaty and Covid approaches of the new government.
“The Covid Crisis has deranged a frighteningly large chunk of the population.
A full-scale inquiry could go a long way to debunking desperate myths and conspiratorial fantasies.
As for Seymour’s referendum.
That will tell us who we really are – something I’m quite keen to find out.”

Why do the mainstream media never seem to wonder about such outcomes?
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November 27, 2023 9:15am
- riffer
  
  It’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation.
  
  Neither side is going to be happy with whatever an independent review comes up with because nobody is ever going to agree on the terms of reference.
  
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  November 27, 2023 9:32am
- riffer
  
  And as for any TOW referendum. That’s a shitstorm waiting to happen. God forbid we ever end up in a situation where we have Pakeha and Maori acting like IDF and Hamas.
  
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  November 27, 2023 9:33am
  - Jack5
    
    Like Israelis and Hamas? They aren’t shooting at their cousins.
    
    Since before the Treaty of Waitangi, NZ has had a high rate of intermarriage between Maori and non-Maori.
    
    In NZ, we have people who are sixteenth Maori (6.25 per cent) identifying as Maori.
    
    You don’t have hundreds of thousands in Israel-Palestine who are part-Hamas and part-Israeli.
    
    Inter-religion marriages aren’t recognised in Israel and are damned dangerous in surrounding Arab territories.
    
    According to a Wikipedia entry, the collective Palestinian Arab population in the region of Palestine, including Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip, amounted to 5.79 million people in 2017.
    
    The population of Israel is more complex, but over the total territory Israel occupies is home to about 6.7 million Jews.
    
    Compare that with New Zealand’s population of up to 800,000 who identify as Maori and 4.2 million who do not.
    
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    November 27, 2023 10:05am
    - cmm
      
      “Inter-religion marriages aren’t recognised in Israel”.
      
      Yes they are recognized, but they cannot be performed in Israel. The same applies to civil and same sex weddings.
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel
      
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      November 27, 2023 10:46am
      - David Garrett
        
        cmm: Neither of “those” kinds of marriage up in Tonga either…and believe it or not, it is still customary to display the bloody sheet on the morning after the wedding night…fortunately for “modern” Tongan girls chicken blood is also red…
        
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        November 27, 2023 11:04am
      - imalwaysright
        
        D.G
        How big are the chickens up there?
        
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        November 27, 2023 11:19am
      - Jack5
        
        Elaborating on CMM’s link in his 10.46 posts about interfaith marriages ….
        
        For those who don’t bother to follow links, this is from the first paragraph:
        
        … inter-faith marriages performed within the country are not legally recognized. However, marriages performed abroad or remotely from Israel must be registered by the government …
        
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        November 27, 2023 12:48pm
    - Paulus
      
      Does the 800,000 include Maori now living in Australia, and many having Citizenship.
      Have heard that Maori in New Zealand are at 8.7% now in part due to immigration.
      
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      November 27, 2023 2:05pm
  - gravedodger
    
    I thought it was a referendum on “The Principles” that a few elite politicians and legal people added to the 1840 documents to muddy the waters and promote Maori separatism, sort of Apartheid if you will.
    
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    November 27, 2023 11:18am
- Diogenes
  
  Link to Chris Trotter, please @Irememberwhen ?
  
  [Mod – adding link]
  
  Cans of Worms
  
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  November 27, 2023 9:41am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Trotter was one of the biggest advocates for punishing those who dared oppose the narrative. No mercy. Interesting considering he’s apparently a fan of free speech and a member of the NZ Free Speech Union.
  
  https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2021/10/putting-on-armour-of-covid-righteousness.html
  
  When I wrote to the FSU about the apparent hypocrisy they said it was an example of him exercising his ‘free speech’ which I understand, except the logic he used in the above article is all provably wrong.
  
  He may not have been aware of this when writing his post.
  I contacted him later in an attempt to get him to acknowledge that in light of the most recent evidence, those who opposed the narrative should be applauded, not punished. That his calls for harsh treatment of them were wrong. His response was lukewarm to say the very least.
  
  I know many people are reluctant to admit when they got something wrong, there have been plenty during covid. He’s a reasonably high profile blogger though and I would have expected him to at least admit he got this aspect wrong.
  
  Though reading his above comment:
  
  “The Covid Crisis has deranged a frighteningly large chunk of the population.
  A full-scale inquiry could go a long way to debunking desperate myths and conspiratorial fantasies.”
  
  That indicates that he either still believes the full covid narrative or has gone into full tortoise mode, refusing to admit he might have been wrong.
  
  A pity, he’s a decent writer, I would have expected him to have some moral fortitude.
  
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  November 27, 2023 10:03am
  - nathie
    
    Are the FSU naive? It’s more than Trotter exercising his ‘free speech’ – he was continually writing and advocating for state sanctioned violence (Police & Army) to be deployed against the Parliamentary Protesters, even in the early stages when it was peaceful.
    
    Presumably Trotter thought “how dare the plebs stand up against the People’s Glorious Ardern Socialist Govt? Destroy and crush the plebs”!
    
    If Trotter has self-reflected and realised he went too far, then great, but if not and despite his recent writings about race relations etc, he still has a massive ~~albatross~~ totalitarian jackboot around his neck.
    
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    November 27, 2023 10:30am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Here’s three more ‘conspiracy theories’ for Mr Trotter and the rest of the deniers who still think there was a ‘deadly pandemic’, that lockdowns and mandates worked and that the experimental jabs were ‘safe and effective’.
    
    Teenagers and young people in their 20s, 30s and 40s in the U.K. are dying from rapidly metastasizing and terminal cancers at an unprecedented rate since mass COVID-19 vaccination began, according to a new analysis by Edward Dowd.
    
    The 45-page report by Dowd, a former Wall Street hedge fund manager and author of “‘Cause Unknown’: The Epidemic of Sudden Deaths in 2021 and 2022,” alarmed some oncologists who characterized it as a sharp reversal of decades of mortality data.
    
    https://vigilantnews.com/post/new-report-young-people-dying-of-cancer-at-explosive-rates-uk-government-data-show
    
    Natural Immunity Better Than Protection From COVID-19 Vaccination: Study
    
    People with protection against COVID-19 following recovery from the illness were better protected than those who received a COVID-19 vaccine, according to a new study.
    
    People who received a vaccine were nearly five times as likely as the naturally immune to test positive for COVID-19 during the Delta era and 1.1 times as likely to test positive for COVID-19 during the Omicron era, researchers in Estonia found.
    
    The vaccinated were also seven times as likely to be admitted to a hospital for COVID-19 amid the spread of the Delta variant and two times as likely to be admitted to a hospital during the Omicron period, when compared with the naturally immune, the researchers found.
    
    https://www.theepochtimes.com/health/natural-immunity-better-than-protection-from-covid-19-vaccination-study
    
    This one isn’t covid specific, but further evidence that Pfizer are the most corrupt entity on the planet. Remember, Medsafe in NZ did no testing, they used data supplied by the criminals at Pfizer to approve their experiment here.
    
    Pfizer ‘Knowingly Distributed’ Adulterated Drugs to Children: Lawsuit
    
    Pfizer and one of its partners distributed a medication to children while knowing that the drug was adulterated, according to legal action unsealed on Nov. 20.
    
    Pfizer and Tris Pharma distributed Quillivant XR, a drug for children with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), even though the companies knew the drug didn’t meet federal standards, the lawsuit from Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton says.
    The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved Quillivant in 2012 but soon after its approval, the drug failed quality control tests, according to the suit.
    
    https://www.theepochtimes.com/health/pfizer-knowingly-distributed-adulterated-drugs-to-children-lawsuit
    
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    November 27, 2023 10:49am
  - wsk12345
    
    Yes his post and many of the comments on it certainly aged badly!
    
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    November 27, 2023 11:38am
  - KH
    
    When Chris Trotter says.
    “…The Covid Crisis has deranged a frighteningly large chunk of the population…..”
    I agree with Trotter.
    When he says
    “. … A full-scale inquiry could go a long way to debunking desperate myths and conspiratorial fantasies….”
    I disagree. An inquiry will not change any view.
    
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    November 27, 2023 12:47pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Clan
    Many on the left fervently believe that they are morally and intellectually superior to those who disagree with them.
    This therefore leads them on a path of self delusion.
    Deranged and conspiratorial are hardly preludes to an open and honest discussion , but he can say whatever he wants and his readers can think whatever they want .
    Trotter ,though, has the ability to change his mind according to the evidence at hand . That is what makes his views on the great unwashed(unvaxxed) so perplexing .
    He is better than that, and it is frustrating .
    
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    November 27, 2023 1:23pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  I remember when – I’m thoroughly looking forward to them “….debunking desperate myths and conspiratorial fantasies.”
  
  I’ve been asking all and sundry to please explain which ‘conspiratorial fantasies’ they are referring to when they make those claims, also what makes them a ‘conspiracy’.
  
  I’ve had zero responses to date. I’m looking for a few good ‘conspiracy theories’ if anyone knows of any. All mine came true!
  
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  November 27, 2023 10:08am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Clan
    It is the equivalent of being asked to disprove you are a racist.
    They will forgive you for being wrong.
    But they will never forgive you for being right.
    
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    November 27, 2023 1:29pm
  - RichardX
    
    To me, a conspiracy theory relies on attributing motive to explain a set of data that can have multiple possible explanations.
    The theory would normally include an ill defined group as being responsible for the chain of events that lead to the outcome.
    
    I’m not saying it is impossible that you are correct but I am, so far, not convinced that there was a global conspiracy purposefully put together by the WHO, WEF, Pfizer, global elites or whoever is being claimed, that killed up to 7,000,000 globally and permanently maimed tens of millions more from “vaccines” and included Ardern getting paid tens of millions of dollars for her role. Admittedly there are few dumb enough to believe the Ardern claim.
    
    To be convinced you are correct, I would need a falsifiable hypothesis that laid out all the elements of your claim.
    The hypothesis would have to include detail on who did what, why they did it and why you believe that to be the case.
    
    If you are unable to provide such a hypothesis, you don’t really have a conspiracy theory. You just think something dodgy happened and you need to blame some person or persons.
    
    Unless I’ve misunderstood your position, you’re the one claiming some sort of plan to this so the burden of proof is all yours and the key words for the hypothesis are falsifiable and detail.
    
    Of course there is no need to provide anything to back up your claims other than the links already provided.
    Data is open to interpretation and cannot speak to motivation or rationale behind decisions made at the time.
    Incidentally, marking it as a sarcastic comment does nothing to refute correlation does not imply causation.
    
    Similarly, there are valid reasons why Post hoc ergo propter hoc is considered fallacious as anyone with even a casual relationship with logic and reasoning should be aware but I have yet to see a conspiracy theory that does not invoke it.
    
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    November 27, 2023 3:26pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Rix,
      With that list of conditions Newton would have had a hard job proving gravity exists.
      Get a grip.
      
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      November 27, 2023 10:26pm
Maggie Pie

IMPOSTER SYNDROME:
a psychological occurrence in which people have a persistent internalised fear of being exposed as frauds.

– en.m.wikipedia.org.

https://tiktok.com/@tbnz_media/video/7304475182255590657
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November 27, 2023 9:18am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  5 sub-groups:
  The Perfectionist, The Superwoman/Man, The Expert, The Soloist and The Natural Genius.
  Ardern was none of those, she is just a liar.
  
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  November 27, 2023 9:47am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    I believe she was fully brainwashed in woke BS. The un-woke could therefore just be airily brushed aside by her minions and herself. Another aggravating factor was the over the top NZ “you go girl” religion, which must not be called into question.
    
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    November 27, 2023 7:59pm
Swifty

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/036/772/vultouri.jpg

CTU economist airily pontificates on what people should be paying other people:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/money/301015059/is-it-unreasonable-to-expect-to-start-work-on-the-living-wage
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November 27, 2023 9:51am
Ian Boag

Listening to someone promoting how ex-lease laptops can be rolled out to school kids. Sounds good, but skips around the fact that Windows lappies get viruses, need updates and generally need support. Basically the school needs at least one network-savvy teacher or technician and every so often a machine will have to be wiped and the kid will lose all their data …

Chromebooks are a much better idea. Relatively dumb – no local processing to speak of – but no virus/malware problems and minimal management required. Cheap. Can access the Net to look stuff up and do word processing/spreadsheet stuff using Google dox. No apps that run on the Chromebook but that means no viruses …

I think similar things can with low-end iPads but that is above my pay grade.
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November 27, 2023 9:53am
- greybeard
  
  I use Ubuntu ( free and frequent updates/upgrades), Firefox browser ( ditto ), LibreOffice ( WP & spreadsheets etc, all free ), no viruses therefore no need for AV software.
  Suits my needs perfectly.
  
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  November 27, 2023 10:38am
  - Local Miller
    
    It’s fine using alternate systems, but the reality of the corporate world is that the majority of companies are still using Microsoft products. It’s simply not a good idea to be training kids on alternate software and when they get into the real world they find they have to relearn a bunch of stuff because the new job requires Excel, Word and PowerPoint experience.
    
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    November 27, 2023 10:58am
    - Local Miller
      
      Disclaimer! I often sit at my desk chanting the mantra: “I hate Microsoft, I hate Microsoft”. I do however owe my job to them because my primary role is as a SQL Database Consultant. In my private life I use an iPad for most things and currently don’t even own my own laptop.
      
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      November 27, 2023 11:01am
      - Jack5
        
        Re Greybeard’s Ubuntu (10.36 post)….
        
        Does your machine use WiFi?
        
        I hear that’s a weak point with Linux types.
        
        Not all WiFi adapters have Linux drivers, and what happens when there’s a kernel upgrade?
        
        WiFi’s pretty important these days. Presumably they would want WiFi for school classes rather than ethernet connections on desks.
        
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        November 27, 2023 11:57am
      - Ghost
        
        I use Ubuntu, opensuse and neon, no issues with wifi or any drivers. No issues updating to new versions either
        
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        November 27, 2023 12:01pm
      - Colville
        
        I am favouring a Swarovski 3.5 x 18 on a Sako 90 carbon 6.5mm Creedmoor driving a 143 grain ELD-X at around 2550 f/sec @ 100M it really does the business.
        
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        November 27, 2023 5:06pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Jack5 most popular Linux flavours in use today are variants of either Debian or Redhat. The drivers are therefore pretty up to date for the most common devices with the popular linux flavours.
        
        Yes if you work in a corporate job you most likely have big tech snooping on your activity and profiling you personally. It sucks big time but our pathetic politicians are generally clueless and are far far behind the big tech cowboys in terms of legislation to protect users from big tech privacy abuse.
        
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        November 27, 2023 8:09pm
    - Ghost
      
      There is very little difference now between Microsoft 365 and the different versions of OpenOffice. Also Microsoft 365 is cloud based so can be used on chrome.
      
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      November 27, 2023 11:48am
      - rangitoto
        
        You can use office365 on linux. Not sure if completely compatible but a charity I’m involved with use office 365 and I have been able to do everything I need to on fedora.
        
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        November 27, 2023 4:35pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        On older Linux distros I’ve found “Wine” (a linux app that allows you to run windows programmes on linux) touch and go. Recently I had Fedora Linux (Redhat based Linux) on my machine and Wine on that ran MS windows apps beautifully, without any tinkering under the hood!.
        Note: Redhat Linux (a commercial form of Linux) was fairly recently bought by IBM. Fedora Linux project is the “upstream” test-bed for Redhat. Last time I checked, Fedora was still free and open source. I’m not sure to what degree IBM is involved in Fedora now. If you don’t have a grunty new machine (i7 or above) I’d suggest use a flavour of Linux that uses an XFCE, LXDE or LXQT “desktop”. These are lighter on resources than the default Gnome desktop (which is nice but pretty resource gobbling). XFCE is the most polished of those lighter desktops. Most Linux distributions (EG Ubuntu, Mint, Zorin, Fedora etc) offer several desktop environment(DE) flavours. Oh and by the way, Debian used to be a total pain in the arse to install. It’s now thankfully a lot more user friendly!
        
        If you’ve got spare older machine (not too old though) you can use it for “distro hopping” (trying out different Linux distributions), My distro hopper machine is an i5 with 8GB RAM and a 320GB hard drive.
        
        The only thing that I’ve found that can often be bolloxed up between normie business environment (IE running MS Windows stuff mainly) and Linux users is word processor documents. I’m thinking possibly better for the Linux users running LibreOffice etc to convert their word docs to PDFs if sending to normie businesses (unless they are successfully running MS Word under the Linux Wine app).
        
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        November 27, 2023 8:35pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Grey
    You are right.
    I’ve tried Linux mint.
    No bullshit updates on shut down or start up and it is compatible with windows .
    Free to use and doesn’t keep asking you if you want to really really do something that you told it to do, a bit like Hall 9000 blended with a valley girl !
    Great for downloading movies, has it’s own built in torrent manager which is seemless and quick.
    Microsoft is like turning on your computer and then trying to communicate with 9 Wellington bureaucrats working from home .
    
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    November 27, 2023 12:09pm
- Local Miller
  
  Microsoft have provision for free student licences for a lot of their software. I’m aware of this because of work I’ve done assessing licencing requirements at universities. Also there are a lot of options with Windows to store stuff in the Cloud, the company I work for does this, and it’s essentially transparent to users where the data’s stored. So if a laptop gets rebuilt, nothing gets lost. If fact you could technically have a “hot laptop” system where no one owns their laptop, you use the one at your desk, and you logon account loads your profile which give you access to what’s yours and what you need. Again, I’m aware this is used on Uni laptops, typically in Computer labs that work on this system.
  
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  November 27, 2023 10:54am
  - cmm
    
    I assume when you say Computer lab, this is outside of computer science etc.
    
    No serious computer science department in the world is using Windows. They’re all using Linux and/or macOS.
    
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    November 27, 2023 10:58am
    - Local Miller
      
      Interesting, my son was at Massy doing a computer science major about 10 years ago, and they used Windows. Might have changed since then.
      I also did an assessment of the licensing requirements for a major Auckland university about 5 years ago and discovered they had about 1000 SQL Servers, running on Windows servers, NOT Developer or Express edition. These were all covered by their Education Institution licensing.
      I suppose you can call Massy and other Auckland based Unis “not serious” computer science departments if you want to.
      
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      November 27, 2023 11:07am
      - cmm
        
        Perhaps they did 10 years ago, but these days I would expect it is mainly Linux etc.
        
        I only use Windows extremely rarely (eg. to run a corporate password updater that requires Windows). The last time I did any work on anything other than Linux was in 2008 when I used macOS for some stuff I did for Apple.
        
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        November 27, 2023 1:15pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        A SQL Server Enterprise licence costs ~$NZ1,400 per month, close to $NZ17,000 p.a.
        
        I have contracted to one govt agency that had 40+ of these, and only around 10 in use.
        
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        November 27, 2023 5:02pm
      - rangitoto
        
        MariaDB is free (just saying) and runs on millions of web servers and database servers
        
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        November 27, 2023 5:20pm
- cmm
  
  Ex-lease laptops are generally re-imaged. They do not come with their existing burden of viruses etc.
  
  There is nothing stopping those from being re-imaged with Ubuntu or ChromeOS rather than Windows.
  
  I agree that any roll-out of computers really needs to be incredibly IT-friendly. Pupils, parents and teachers just don’t have the know-how and bandwidth to do the job.
  
  With a cloud-first computing model, the device itself contains nothing and is relatively disposable. They can be wiped and swapped between users without losing data. Much easier management.
  
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  November 27, 2023 10:55am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Chromebooks pretty much tick all those boxes ….
    
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    November 27, 2023 11:33am
    - cmm
      
      From a software/systems perspective yes- 100%.
      The difference is that ex-lease laptops are way cheaper – they are essentially recycled.
      
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      November 27, 2023 1:06pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        You can buy a used Chromebook for about $150.
        
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        November 27, 2023 4:39pm
      - cmm
        
        Chromebook $150? Wow at those prices it isn’t worth bothering trying to recycle ex-lease.
        It would be much easier and cheaper to just support straight chromebooks.
        
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        November 27, 2023 5:00pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Have a look on TMe … or Cash Converters … or EBay. Old ones don’t have a touch screen but otherwise work just as well as newer ones …
        
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        November 27, 2023 7:32pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      How is the privacy thing with Chromebooks?
      
      PS I already know the answer. It begins with f.
      
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      November 27, 2023 8:42pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  A decent wireless server for the school would fix that. Data is then not stored on the laptop.
  
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  November 27, 2023 12:29pm
- Paulus
  
  Am told that many of the laptops will be stolen – and sold on the open market.
  Then the college ones will have to replace them of course.
  
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  November 27, 2023 2:08pm
  - kevn
    
    Paulus… Whatever happened to hipkins ‘free’ to students, laptops during lockdown? Even Hoskings kids got one each. I recall NZ being unlocked down, so the ‘free’ laptop caper stopped with 1000’s of them in storage somewhere.
    
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    November 27, 2023 2:50pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      They were Chromebooks ….
      
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      November 27, 2023 4:40pm
Maggie Pie

Auckland Mayor Wayne Brown saying…. Rates will need to rise but he intends scrapping Cycleways and Bus Lanes.

https://tinyurl.com/269zpwh6

Wayne is da MAN!
My partner reckons he’ll save at least a hundy + per week in gas without all those time wasting travel impediments.
Let alone the time spent by the country’s wealth producing taxpayers fuming about the situation while stuck in their cars.
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November 27, 2023 10:04am
- ClanMcleod
  
  A politician being honest and doing what he was elected to do, how refreshing! Hoping the new government is paying attention.
  
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  November 27, 2023 10:37am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Exactly! Imagine if the now Green Espresso was wearing the Chains. He would have increased the Rates so he COULD build more bus lanes and cycleways 🙁
    
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    November 27, 2023 10:45am
Swifty

“We don’t know the causes of gender and racial pay gaps, officially the causes are ‘unexplained’, however we are absolutely convinced it’s all down to discrimination and bias!”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/gender-pay-gap-explained-what-is-it-and-why-does-it-still-exist/GJP4JEHGCNCAZEHUK3FP5Q6YQ4/

Such is the state of our academics and civil institutions – they’re now just making shit up.

They’re not neutral public servants – they are political activists using their public positions to pursue their political objectives – Transparency International’s classic definition of corruption.
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November 27, 2023 10:05am
- imalwaysright
  
  Swi
  The are in fact correct in their conclusion .
  However they neglect to say that the most disadvantaged demographic on the planet is young white males.
  
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  November 27, 2023 12:14pm
  - cmm
    
    I would argue that in many ways the most advantaged are those disadvantaged young white males.
    
    Denying them hand outs means they will have to work harder to achieve anything. That’s going to set them up better.
    
    There is nothing quite as destructive as a life of hand outs.
    
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    November 27, 2023 1:04pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Cmm
      You are right
      
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      November 27, 2023 1:32pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Exactly. Handouts are to personal agency what gaping holes are to boats.
      
      3 1
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      November 27, 2023 4:57pm
- Keith White
  
  I know the causes of racial and pay gaps, because as a pale’un, I started my first paid-jobs in my first decade of life (mowing neighbors’ lawns and delivering the Herald when that was still something to be proud of); then kept working doing lawn-rounds, painting jobs, weediing, section-clearing, apprentice tree-felling, late shifts at fish’n’chip shops, Uncle’s, holiday jobs at the freezing works, TipTop, driving a hire-truck-delivery and all sort of other things during school and uni-years, and have been working right up until now my near-end-seventh-decade; and I know because I have seen: the reasons for all pay gaps i.e. common to the XX-chromosomed and the tribes-o’-extra-melanin and the people-of-pallor is…. wait for it, the choices made by us all.
  
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  November 27, 2023 1:21pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    I’m about the same age as you. I did some of that stuff too.
    
    Those jobs by and large no longer exist. Alas …..
    
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    November 27, 2023 4:44pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      These jobs by & large no longer exist because some lefty politicians in their wisdom got rid of youth rates..
      
      Within a few weeks of legislation removing youth rates, places like supermarkets, the Warehouse, libraries, Takeaway shops, etc stopped employing 15-18 year olds for a few hours after school.
      
      Those jobs were the first step to full employment for many of the boys I taught…. It meant that when they left school at 16 or 17, sometimes with few (if any ) qualifications, they had a chance of getting a good reference from their boss if they’d shown that they were reliable and pleasant to work with.
      
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      November 27, 2023 7:39pm
      - Miritu
        
        “.. because some lefty politicians in their wisdom got rid of youth rates…”
        I think National was the party that did this (I could be wrong)
        
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        November 27, 2023 10:47pm
Chuck Bird

Below is an email I will shortly send to Chris Luxon. I would appreciate any comments or suggestions.

WHY EVs WILL NEVER REPLACE ICEVs – Part 1

Dear Chris

Firstly, congratulations on getting the three parties to work together.

You may remember I resigned from National because of your climate change alarmist policies.

I was hoping that may fade with the government you have stitched together. However, after hearing Nicola Willis on Q + A, I see National still supports climate alarmism.

Below is a link to an article on Kiwiblog where a very knowledgeable person wrote on why EVs will never replace ICE cars.

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2023/11/why_evs_will_never_replace_icevs_part_1.html#comments

While I believe that National is looking at removing the subsidies on EVs I am not sure about penalties for ICEs. However, National is looking at spending a lot on charging stations and investing in offshore wind turbines so I still have concerns about National wasting money on policies to stop the sea from boiling but actually harm the environment.

As PM you do not have time to look in detail about climate policies but depend on so-called experts.

When I was a National Party member I was part of the Blue Greens and met Rod Carr. Carr is a total alarmist. I would bet he would never debate his alarmist views with a real expert. Another member of the Climate Change Commission is Catherine Leining, a disciple of Al Gore.

Before the election Act’s policy was to get rid of the whole Climate Change Commission, partly to save money. That policy did not get across the line. I think that would be a step too far. However, as National had no say in choosing any members of the Climate Change Commission. Replacing the Commissioner and shrinking the commission would help reduce CO2 without damaging the economy, especially farming.

If you are looking at reviewing the Reserve Bank Governor and the Police Commissioner, surely doing the same for the Climate Change Commission makes sense.

I would recommend Barry Brill, former NZ Minister of Science & Technology and Minister of Energy.

https://www.desmog.com/barry-brill/

I hope you at the very least contact Barry and ask him what he thinks of the Kiwiblog article and if he believes Dr Steven Koonin that the science is not settled.

My Background

I have no science background like David Seymour who qualified as an electrical engineer. However, I have read extensively on climate change experts such as Dr Steven Koonin, Dr Judith Curry, Dr Patrick Moore and others as well as climate change economist Bjorn Lomborg. I also went to a talk by American, Dr Thomas Sheahen who Groundswell brought out to New Zealand.

As you will see I have copied this email to others such as the new Minister of Climate Change. I have also copied it onto today’s Kiwiblog so I expect a proper response from someone who knows how science works. It does not work on voting but on logic.

I must compliment you on supporting Act and NZF on smoking policy. I am a non-smoker and the policy makes sense.

I thank you in anticipation of a timely and considered reply.

Kind regards
Chuck Bird
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November 27, 2023 10:11am
- ClanMcleod
  
  I read that earlier today, a wonderful post. It should be a topic for discussion in social studies and science debate in all schools and universities.
  
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  November 27, 2023 10:38am
- David Garrett
  
  Chuck: Oh Chuck…you don’t think Luxon will actually read that – let alone reply – do you?
  
  Which party are you a member of now? I know you have been a member of both ACT and NZF in the past…
  
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  November 27, 2023 11:13am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    I will not renew my Act membership or join any other party. I will support groups like Family First, Maxim Institute and Groundswell. Groups like this appreciate support, unlike political parties.
    
    We will see if I get a reply.
    
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    November 27, 2023 11:24am
    - Ghost
      
      You’ll get a reply that it’s been given to the relevant minister, then crickets
      
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      November 27, 2023 11:28am
- Keith White
  
  The science is settled in one respect; my unmodified electric motorsickle can go 0-100km/hr in 3.6 secs.
  
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  November 27, 2023 1:25pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    I believe the record is under 1 second.
    
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    November 27, 2023 3:45pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/nzs-biggest-myth-maori-lost-their-lands-the-truth-they-sold-them/
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November 27, 2023 11:00am
I remember when

Fascinating interview of Dr Clare Craig, who has written a book “Expired: The Untold Covid Story”, on Dr John Campbell’s You Tube.
She completely destroys the modellers prediction methodology for the Covid epidemic.
States their excesses were driven by quest for financing and fame.
Apparently, respiratory diseases always work to a predictable pattern.
Firstly, only 10-15% of the population are susceptible in any given wave.
Secondly, regardless of the season of the year, it is known when the peak will occur.
In the UK, in the Spring it is always April, Summer (July), Autumn (October) and Winter (January).
She states that the reasons for this is still unknown.
Also the amount of secondary infection is always 10% regardless of where it occurs or the variant at the time.

All of this should have been known by our health professionals and therefore the media made aware.
Most of the fear was almost totally avoidable.
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November 27, 2023 11:13am
Ian Boag

ship load of av-gas

I think the shipment you are talking about was avtur – the kerosene that runs jets/turboprops. It can be blended into diesel. In fact you can just run a diesel engine on the stuff …

There would have been no need to send it back
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November 27, 2023 11:23am
- Matt Long
  
  As I recall, it was contaminated, I’m pretty sure that even if a common rail diesel could run on kerosine, the contamination would be a very expensive experience.
  
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  November 27, 2023 12:00pm
Close Hen Counters

Huge best of luck to Chris Luxon and this new government – his family are beautiful in the quick peeks I have seen in between work and if my family looked like that I would be so proud! What a fabulous example of success, education, great parenting and I love his psssion to make nz better
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November 27, 2023 12:09pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  100% CHC! 😀
  And have you seen Nicola Willis’s wonderful family. An absolute joy to behold.
  
  It’s so fab finally getting back to having all our Parliamentary leaders displaying normal family values and understanding.
  
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  November 27, 2023 12:35pm
Maggie Pie

NewstalkZB reporting….. Mayor Wayne has been hauled over the coals by a number of left-leaning councillors for spending $6000 on a business trip to India.
Can you believe the hypocrisy of those Labor retards!

Crickets when Goff authorised tens of thousands of ratepayer dollars to fund ‘KIWIFIST’….billed as Auckland’s “full on gathering of gay and bi-men into fisting and arse play”

SHEEESH!
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November 27, 2023 12:14pm
- Ghost
  
  What a waste of money.
  
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  November 27, 2023 12:29pm
- krazykiwi
  
  $6k? Did he travel in cattle class and stay in hostels?
  
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  November 27, 2023 12:31pm
- cmm
  
  There is hypocrisy on all sides here.
  
  Wayne has been pushing for cuts but thinks he needs a junket to India for …. reasons.
  
  What the hell can he learn in India that is going to make Auckland work better?
  
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  November 27, 2023 3:42pm
peterwn

See:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/11/election-2023-incoming-prime-minister-christopher-luxon-won-t-commit-to-not-increasing-taxes.html

Any Prime Minister or Minister of Finance would be crazy to promise not increase taxes in response to the questions asked. The Media were baiting the PM and he was not going to bite.
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November 27, 2023 12:40pm
- septic skeptic
  
  Yup. A far cry from the sycophantic reporting of the Ardern coronation in 2017.
  
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  November 27, 2023 2:41pm
Jack5

Putin pushing Muslim refugees across the border into Finland, and some of them are freezing to death.

I think this report is outside the Telegraph paywall:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/11/26/eu-border-guards-finland-russia-migrants-destabilise-bloc/
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November 27, 2023 12:41pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING

The Irish Enquirer reports that the most popular name in Galway is now… Mohammed.

Who could have saw that coming?
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November 27, 2023 1:26pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Mohammed O’Leary
  
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  November 27, 2023 1:40pm
  - greybeard
    
    Mohammed O’Bama
    
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    November 27, 2023 2:16pm
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  Pretty much all Muslim parents call their oldest son Mohammed. This factoid therefore tells you something about Muslim conformity, but nothing about their numbers. If all Irish parents in Galway called their oldest son Dermot, Dermots would hugely outnumber Mohammeds there.
  
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  November 27, 2023 2:32pm
  - Sir Henry Morgan
    
    That Mohammed is the most common boy’s name tells you that Muslim families account for a rather large proportion of births.
    
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    November 27, 2023 6:56pm
imalwaysright

I think Mohammed and his ilk have outstayed their welcome.
They may be better to fuck right off back from whence they came lest a crowd of pissed off Celts give them a lesson in the meaning of humanity .
The Irish aren’t ones to be intimidated by ones reputation.
Mohammed might be better off in England .
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November 27, 2023 1:45pm
Ghost

problems in china

Chinese police have opened an investigation into Zhongzhi Enterprise Group after the debt-ridden financial giant declared itself insolvent.

Police in Beijing, where the group is headquartered, said late Saturday they had opened an investigation into unspecified “alleged offenses,” adding that they had taken measures against several suspects.

Zhongzhi declared itself insolvent Wednesday with its arrears estimated at nearly $66 billion, according to a letter to investors cited by local media.

Article
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November 27, 2023 2:07pm
Maggie Pie

A bestie from Church txts when she came across this vid, she thort during these times
it seems quite pertinent…

‘Black priest preaching the inconvenient truth’

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUohFqmGDwk
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November 27, 2023 2:12pm
cmm

It is a sad day in NZ when a criminal scumbag’s funeral can draw over a thousand people who act with impunity and the cops do nothing.

How many honest, clean living, productive New Zealanders could get 1000 people to their funeral? Yet a criminal scumbag does. Yes, it seems many people do look up to gang members and see them as role models.

Perhaps this tells us what NZ’s (or maybe the new Aotearoa’s) values are and what is really in store for us in the future.

This didn’t need 100 cops. It needed 10 cops with a few crates of teargas canisters and the willingness to sling them.
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November 27, 2023 3:39pm
- Inandout
  
  cmm, as our new Minister of Police has just been sworn in I presume this funeral behaviour is being handled by a still gelded Police.
  
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  November 27, 2023 3:48pm
- Keith White
  
  And water-cannon.
  
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  November 27, 2023 4:15pm
- MCōs
  
  In NZ, unlike some countries I could think of, past and present, people have to break the law before the police can take punitive action.
  Apart from that Mark Mitchell seems to have be happy enough with the way the police handled the situation
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/head-hunter-funeral-incoming-police-minister-mark-mitchell-pleased-with-robust-police-response-ahead-of-william-bird-hines-funeral/4X26XSIRQVCQBA6BUOSFQ4SI7A/
  
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  November 27, 2023 5:49pm
- Sir Henry Morgan
  
  The media does seem to now celebrate gangs.
  
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  November 27, 2023 6:58pm
Swifty

Efeso Collins and many, many other far-left fellow travellers are on record as claiming that the cause of crime is poverty. This is very convenient for them as it then enables them to tax New Zealanders even more to fund government efforts to ‘solve’ poverty also known as portraying yourself politically as the kind, caring cavalry riding to society’s rescue while shovelling millions and millions of tax dollars to politically favoured groups.

How then does Efeso explain this?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/503374/three-arrests-dog-returned-to-owner-after-incidents-in-counties-manukau

This is not the effects of poverty. This is the result of people living grubby, feral, entitled lives – so that when you see someone with something you want you just take it from them.

This is one of my greatest criticisms of the NZ Left. They are just so dishonest. They just continually deceive and mislead, particularly about the root cause of society’s problems. They would have us believe black is white. Night is day. Up is down and down is up.
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November 27, 2023 4:00pm
- krazykiwi
  
  It seems the dishonest Left have been around since Biblical times. To wit: –
  
  Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!
  
  — Isaiah 5:20
  
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  November 27, 2023 4:28pm
DimChappie

Iwi leader Tuku Morgan was set to run a big part of 3/10 Waters. Now he tells TV1 Breakfast he is very pissed at the Coalition’s plans to axe Labour’s racist policies and launch the Treaty Principles Bill. He is promising legal action and much more from “sophisticated” Maori like himself.

https://youtu.be/4r3MR6CnjFQ
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November 27, 2023 4:21pm
- Swifty
  
  A couple of points:
  
  1. Notice all the recent objections to the new government all use the same or very similar talking points. So, not spontaneous thoughts rather planned and coordinated responses.
  
  2. Almost no detail on what he opposes and why – it’s all just “we will oppose”.
  
  3. The highly emotive, hyperbolic language – like he’s addressing a meeting of union delegates at the meat works. No detail, just threats, bluff and bluster and emotional calls to action.
  
  4. When he talked about ‘conversations being held’ he slipped out that participants to those conversations included ‘the left’. I think he said the quiet part out loud.
  
  So in summary, he is upset that his side lost the recent election and he intends fighting the policy prescriptions of his political opponents.
  
  “Going to take Maori back 50 years…..”
  
  What an egg.
  
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  November 27, 2023 4:49pm
  - kowtow
    
    “Going to take Maori back 50 years…..”
    
    Well it’s a start anyway , I thought the activists wanted to go back 500 years , innit.
    
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    November 27, 2023 5:42pm
    - Swifty
      
      Heh.
      
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      November 27, 2023 6:09pm
  - Keith White
    
    Not so much an egg as a turd.
    
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    November 27, 2023 7:42pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Mr (I’m Welsh) Morgan is only upset that the very large sallary plus benefits he was about to get basically provided for zero effort have been taken away.
  Let him go to court as long as he is using his own coin make it happen……
  
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  November 27, 2023 4:53pm
- John Loveridge
  
  Tuku sees his money tap being turned off. He’s going to have to find another source of grift.
  
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  November 27, 2023 6:08pm
Maggie Pie

Our neighbor was saying the entire time she and her twin sister attended Baradene College back in the 70’s, they never once encountered a girl that was alergic to peanut butter, suffered from autism, or was transgender.

Hmmm…
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November 27, 2023 4:27pm
- krazykiwi
  
  The autism rate was 1:10,000 children in 1970.
  
  It is now 1:36.
  
  I don’t doubt that some of this is over anxious parents wanting a reason their child isn’t meekly compliant, but I don’t believe that alone can explain the trend.
  
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  November 27, 2023 4:46pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    WOW! And are there figures available for those suffering from transgenderism, kk?
    
    7 2
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    November 27, 2023 4:54pm
    - Max Mansplain
      
      It’s 100%……we all suffer from transgenderism
      
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      November 27, 2023 5:17pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        And wot about peanut butter Maxsie?
        
        5 1
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        November 27, 2023 6:52pm
  - cmm
    
    I am sure that much of the low numbers in the past was also down to autistism not being recognised and kids just being caned into submission.
    
    Ditto many other things we’d recognise now such as dyslexia. A good clout can correct spelling mistakes. Eventually a child learns some mechanisms to compensate.
    
    Part of the problem with any of these hard to measure (and sometimes trendy) conditions is that the definitions and their diagnosis have changed over the last 50 years.
    
    As a result, comparing stats from 50 years ago to today is somewhat broken for conditions such as these.
    
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    November 27, 2023 5:14pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      One of the best argumemts we’ve heard for the reintroduction of corporal punishment in schools.
      
      5 2
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      November 27, 2023 5:18pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Great. Were you caned at school for talking out of turn? Red welts across hands as a sadistic man smiled as he caned you?
        
        It reinforces everything that I suspect about your character and values that you would advocate corporal punishment for children.
        
        5 10
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        November 27, 2023 5:36pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        Benedict, I happened across this Aporia magazine article last week: Is spanking always harmful to children?. I liked that there is some evidence presented rather than the more usual collection of anecdotes.
        
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        November 27, 2023 5:55pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Yu got kidz Bene? Thort not.
        
        Suggest you digest kk’s attachment.
        
        7 0
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        November 27, 2023 6:57pm
    - Ghost
      
      I was just considered strange. But I also learned that the easy way was to be the teachers pet, so they looked after you. I would study my friends and learn how to act. I have friends who have autistic kids and I kind of feel it was better without a diagnosis.
      
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      November 27, 2023 5:25pm
      - Keith White
        
        “But I also learned that the easy way was to be the teachers pet, so they looked after you.”
        
        Figures.
        
        4 0
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        November 27, 2023 7:44pm
    - MCōs
      
      I have a granddaughter who is dyslexic
      It’s very upsetting for her, but no matter what she does, what extra tuition her parents pay for, it’s a hard slog to make progress.
      
      Back in the thirties there were far fewer left handed people.
      My father was left handed, but he was forced to change. He ended up with dreadful handwriting and when he got to about eighty he lost the ability to write altogether.
      
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      November 27, 2023 6:18pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        i’M left handed cossie.
        
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        November 27, 2023 6:44pm
      - fightingtemeraire
        
        Contact the Dyslexia Foundation.
        
        Also get a copy of Neil Mackay’s Book, Removing Dyslexia as a Barrier to Achievement and get the school to read it. He believes that if you teach all the kids as if they are dyslexic you reach 95% of them His system has been used in many NZ schools with great results.
        
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        November 27, 2023 7:03pm
      - Jack5
        
        I think Bill Buckley, perhaps New Zealand’s greatest high-tech magnate, was and perhaps still is, dyslexic.
        
        He certainly had problems at school. These led to him spending much of his time in the workshop of his father, an engineering academic laid off in the Depression.
        
        Bill Buckley was working as an engineering apprentice when two university scientists having a device made, spotted his potential.
        
        Don’t write off those with a different brain.
        
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        November 27, 2023 7:58pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    It is no the MMR vaccine.
    
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    November 27, 2023 5:33pm
    - kevn
      
      BY… Plenty is though.
      https://nzdsos.com/2023/11/24/auto-immune-encephalitis-added-to-the-plague-of-adverse-events-jessicas-story/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=weekly-posts
      
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      November 27, 2023 5:44pm
    - cmm
      
      It is easy enough to make claims:
      It is not rock music.
      It is not TV
      It is not social media.
      It is not video games
      It is not GMOs
      It is not high fructose corn syrup.
      It is not mothers becoming parents later in life.
      It is not global warming.
      …
      
      How do you know? Or are you just guessing?
      
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      November 27, 2023 5:55pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      We’ve been here before, Benedict. And had we engaged in this discussion 5 years ago I would have agreed with you. But not any more. There really is too much evidence to suggest causation, and suppression of that evidence by parties that make billions annually from the vaccine complex.
      
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      November 27, 2023 5:59pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Folks had barely defined autism (in the modern sense) in the 1970s.
    
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3757918/
    
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    November 27, 2023 7:06pm
- kowtow
  
  And there weren’t many fatties either .
  
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  November 27, 2023 5:40pm
- greybeard
  
  And I bet all the girls were virgins.
  
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  November 28, 2023 6:20am
Ghost

Lucy has made the herald

A criminal defence lawyer who was at a pro-Palestine protest on Auckland’s Queen St claims police wrongfully arrested her as she peacefully held up a placard.

Lucy Rogers, who told the Herald she was present as an “anti-hypocrisy” protester wanting to highlight violence committed by both sides in the ongoing Israel-Hamas conflict, was arrested for breach of the peace and failure to comply with the lawful instructions of a police officer.

Article
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November 27, 2023 5:03pm
- Keith White
  
  Oh dear.
  
  A lawyer wanting protection by the laws she likes, getting caught by the enforcers enforcing only the laws they like.
  
  How sad.
  
  Anyway…
  
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  November 27, 2023 7:45pm
  - peterwn
    
    What laws were the enforcers trying to enforce? Seems to me they were trying to enforce non existent laws.
    
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    November 27, 2023 8:30pm
Sparrow

I see Winston has had a go at TVNZ and RNZ ref the government bribe. I have seen conflicting info as to whether the bribe has stopped or continues until next year or later. Does anybody know ? If it is continuing can the new government stop it ?
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November 27, 2023 5:22pm
- Swifty
  
  Which bribe? There have been so many I’ve lost count.
  
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  November 27, 2023 6:06pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Newshub have informed us that Winston’s claims are baseless.
  I trust everything they say without question.
  /s
  
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  November 27, 2023 7:33pm
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    I followed politics since long before Winston won Hunua and now he has more credibility than a news outlet.
    I am a director of a company that publishes two newspapers so studied the Public Interest Journalism Fund when it was first set up. The conditions were such that I could not, in all conscience, be a director of a company that stooped to the low level of ethical behaviour required by recipients of that funding scheme.
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:51pm
Swifty

Everest, Camp 4.

▶️ Watch this reel https://www.facebook.com/share/r/PUyV6fBf9rutXSXV/?mibextid=UalRPS

Wow. How shitty.
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November 27, 2023 5:28pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  That’s really bad. Had no idea, thanks for the link. Those people rich enough ( and healthy enough) to go there really do not seem to be very concerned about the amount of litter they leave behind. Disgusting!
  
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  November 27, 2023 8:07pm
Swifty

Here you go fellas – the effects of aging on the ol’ love torpedo.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/how-does-ageing-affect-your-penis/VN7X67VABJD4XNW35PQF53YFWE/
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November 27, 2023 5:33pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Gonna give that one a miss, Swifty
  
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  November 27, 2023 8:06pm
  - Swifty
    
    Forewarned is forearmed my dear fellow.
    
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    November 27, 2023 9:27pm
Maggie Pie

Just caufght that woke Soiman Dallow on 1Eews still attemting to speek Te Reo.

No wondwer Ali walked….wot a pussy!
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November 27, 2023 6:38pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Has Greenpeace captured TV One?
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November 27, 2023 7:08pm
- Keith White
  
  Greenpeace could not capture a hermaphroditic goldfish in a 10cm bowl.
  
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  November 27, 2023 7:55pm

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