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November 24, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 24 November 2023

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Benedict Yu

Max Rashbrooke is an academic at Victoria University. He presents as an expert on local government. Julie Anne Genter reposts his tweets. That in itself made me suspicious.

https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350112741/higher-rates-rich-and-other-ideas-local-govts-funding-crisis

In this opinion piece he argues that councils across New Zealand have a “revenue crisis”. Revenue from rates falls way short of that necessary to fund essential services. He also states that Council expenditure cannot be reduced. It is all essential.

His solution is to link rates to incomes as well as property values. Higher income earners would pay much higher rates than currently.

His second proposal is to ban all “greenfield” housing. All new housing would be medium and high density in ‘infill’ sites. His argument for this proposal is breathtaking. Providing infrastructure for new housing is an expense for councils. By restricting new housing to high density sites, councils will save money, which can be spent on useful things like cycleways. He claims that cycleways return benefits of 10x their costs.

The lesson is to be alarmed when you see Julie Ann Genter promote tweets from “experts”. 🤯🤡
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November 24, 2023 8:01am
- hmmokrightitis
  
  JAG is a communist, and they will seek whatever real world justification they can to move towards their brave new world.
  
  Quite why she doesnt move to the socialist utopias, just one of them, across the globe….
  
  Oh, hang on…
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:07am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Moving to a socialist utopia would mean JAG is not a hypocrite.
    She likes being a hypocrite – people take notice!
    
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    November 24, 2023 9:26am
    - Beach Haven expat
      
      Still tickles me how JAG posed for a virtue signalling picture riding a bicycle to hospital to give birth but there were no pictures of her cycling home, with bubs strapped into a bike seat.
      Surely she can’t have journeys home in a motorised vehicle?
      
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      November 24, 2023 12:05pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Her husband drove the car to take the bike home I think.
        
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        November 24, 2023 12:46pm
      - Beach Haven expat
        
        Sorry Steve if I hit report below. Fat fingers Mods please ignore
        
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        November 24, 2023 3:02pm
- rouppe
  
  So on the one hand he says there isn’t enough money to fix the pipes, and on the other hand his solution to that is to add more density, increasing connections to that same infrastructure.
  
  Clever guy…
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:10am
  - cmm
    
    These “experts” are really activists.
    
    If you really want an expert opinion about these matters then you speak to a civil engineer,
    
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    November 24, 2023 8:38am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      You yesterday cmm:
      ” Top academic ” code for Leftie activist.
      
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      November 24, 2023 9:44am
      - ISeeRed
        
        We are experiencing an academic pandemic. Time for an elimination strategy.
        
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        November 24, 2023 3:07pm
- Ehlana
  
  So, if you double the number of people living in an existing neighbourhood, there will be no need for bigger pipes to supply more water or dispose of more wastewater, but it the same increase of people were instead to live in a greenfields site, a change in infrastructure would be required?
  
  I really wish they’d taught us more physics in school.
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:10am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Greenfields sites with low density housing do generally present Councils with higher costs than is the case for high density housing. However banning city expansion is insane, which is what this guy is proposing. An important factor in keeping Christchurch housing prices more affordable than Auckland and Wallington was the massive greenfield expansions in places like Rolleston.
    
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    November 24, 2023 8:19am
    - Yabster
      
      hes always been a socialist old Maxy- best to ignore his rants.
      
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      November 24, 2023 8:22am
    - I remember when
      
      The old ‘greenfields’ sites are the present high density sites.
      
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      November 24, 2023 8:52am
    - Matt Long
      
      I don’t see why green fields should present more costs to councils, well chosen sites around Auckland would be on good soils for building, non flooding, include both rail and 4 lane car/bus access to existing transport infrastructure. A mixture of stand alone and terraced housing, office space, commercial and schools, public amenities.
      Services all installed future proofed for increased population density, all paid for by a public private partnership.
      
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      November 24, 2023 1:32pm
  - MCōs
    
    You’d think so wouldn’t you
    However
    Approximately seventy new dwellings have been built where previously about half a dozen houses once stood within five minutes walk of my house and I’ve seen no evidence of the roads being dug up to lay new pipes
    Before all this development started a concerned citizen sent flyers round the neighbourhood worried about all this extra housing, but now they’re all finished and occupied nothing much has changed
    
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    November 24, 2023 8:39am
    - Tom Hunter
      
      Not my experience in Auckland where four-five houses now sit on each former single State House, over many hectares. In this case the roads most definitely have been ripped up for new water and sewer pipes, causing massive disruption for five years now.
      
      Perhaps your area just fluked it years ago with big pipes. It was pretty common for an older generation of engineers to overspec things.
      
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      November 24, 2023 9:53am
    - graham
      
      Possibly, they may have been constructed with a pressure sewer system, or macerator pumps in each house (which the householder is responsible for maintaining).
      
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      November 24, 2023 10:20am
  - Biscuit
    
    Mmm, Ehlana.
    
    Where I live, it has become ‘the thing’ to subdivide streetside quater-acre properties and to build three or four lifestyle properties in front of or behind (maybe both) the original.
    
    Some of the prperties are double-storeyed, to.
    
    No probs … I presume the council is looking after thing like pipes for stormwater, sewage etc – but I shudder to think how some of the new residents are going to get their cars out onto an already-busy Fergusson Drive in the a.m. and, going home, in the p.m.
    
    Presumably, too, they are going to have to come up with some sort of agreement with their neighbours to get said cars down some very narrow, shared, accessways…
    
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    November 24, 2023 9:32am
    - pdm
      
      Surely there there are cycle lanes down those driveways too Biscuit.
      
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      November 24, 2023 9:40am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I wish I had the scope to come out with two opposing solutions and come up with a deadpan face thinking I outsmarted everyone.//
    
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    November 24, 2023 9:32am
- Philview
  
  I saw Max being interviewed on TV the other night talking about ‘positive shoots’ in this country and things aren’t as bad as people are saying. He made a claim that much fewer children are living in poverty compared to 10 years ago. I find that very hard to believe. Although he did acknowledge the work of multiple governments I thought there was a tone to the interview that he thought the previous Government did a good job and perhaps a challenge to the new government.
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:13am
  - cmm
    
    ‘positive shoots’ is a cute way to say that if you really, really look for them you will find a few tiny places where something went right – even if the vast bulk does not look this way.
    
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    November 24, 2023 8:40am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yeah he is talking crap. Two things force more low income people into poverty. Cost of food and cost of housing. Thanks Jacinda. ☹️
    
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    November 24, 2023 8:44am
    - nathie
      
      “Thanks Jacinda” …. and her cunning architect/grand ~~wizard~~ master Grant Robbertson!
      
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      November 24, 2023 8:58am
    - Colville
      
      Food, housing and fuel are the big three.
      
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      November 24, 2023 11:03am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      The cost of energy underpins the cost of everything.
      
      Hopefully the new govt can learn the lessons Germany has gone through the hard way and not repeat them in NZ.
      Wind/Solar pushers are lying or seriously delusional about “more jobs” and “lower electricity prices” from these ridiculously expensive forms of energy production.
      
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      November 25, 2023 5:44pm
  - Simon
    
    Real world measures of child poverty for eg truancy and food parcels are off the scales. MSM just run commercials for sheep with these communists.
    
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    November 24, 2023 8:57am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      My idea of the cause of truancy is the teachers not teaching the core subjects but pushing socialist bullshit is more important. Also some kids are already smarter than the teachers. Why go to school and listen to that claptrap?
      
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      November 24, 2023 9:37am
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        That might be plausible if truancy were highest in conservative rural areas. But it isn’t – it’s highest in areas with large Maaori populations.
        
        Truancy reflects lack of parental oversight.
        
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        November 24, 2023 11:21am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @Pope,
        Say it – the parents don’t give a shit. Their kids are part of the welfare dependence cycle.
        
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        November 24, 2023 2:01pm
      - cmm
        
        Sorry, I’m not buying it.
        
        Your theory certainly would makes sense for higher IQ, high performing individuals (who wag less).
        
        The vast majority of waggers are at the low performance end. Only a few % of low socioeconomic Maori regularly attend school. I doubt very much they are brighter than the teachers.
        
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        November 24, 2023 5:27pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        I believe behind the “couldn’t give a sh**” attitude is actually racist paranoia.
        
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        November 25, 2023 5:48pm
    - cmm
      
      I am not so sure.
      
      Certainly poverty could contribute to truancy, but the vast majority of truants are wagging.
      
      What is really keeping them from school? I don’t buy it saying it is the cost of transport. Most kids live within 2km of a school – easy walking. Sure, some don’t.
      
      Is the uptake of food parcels really due to people in absolute need or is a lot of it really just due to people taking them because they are there for free?
      
      The good old potato can be good at filling family bellies. A solid meal of rice or potatoes and bean and vege stew costs less than $1 per person. However I bet the same person would have no problems blowing $4 on chips and fizzies.
      
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      November 24, 2023 5:23pm
  - waikatosinger
    
    Fewer children => fewer children in poverty, so I suppose it could be true.
    
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    November 24, 2023 9:10am
    - cmm
      
      Fewer kids -> less hand outs.
      
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      November 24, 2023 5:28pm
- Kiwiguy
  
  His definition of ‘essential services’ might differ from mine.
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:20am
- Grumpy Silver Haired Female
  
  I wonder if anyone ever tried to teach him maths. Clearly an abject fail. Similarly with logic.
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:21am
  - 3-coil
    
    Marx Rashbrooke has the same maths skills of every commie commentator: hard-working wealthy folk have more mula than those who can’t/choose not to work…so the state will redistribute it. See – no actual numbers required!
    
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    November 24, 2023 8:54am
- PeeJay
  
  When an “expert” argues that all council expenditure is essential then you know the “expert” is an idiot.
  
  I’ve mentioned this a few times – one of the single best reforms the new government could do is to completely re-write the Local Government Act. It is an awful piece of legislation and allows Councils to get involved in all sorts of crap that they really should not be doing.
  
  A comment I regularly hear is that Councils should be only be doing the basics or core services. The LGA is written in such a way that all the crap that Councils currently do is effectively them complying with the Act – open to interpretation yes, but the Act is so broad that they can get away with all this spending.
  
  Want to get Council’s out of frivolous spending? Re-write the LGA.
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:24am
  - MCōs
    
    What would you consider ‘frivolous’ spending?
    
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    November 24, 2023 8:55am
    - Simon
      
      Council’s turning functional suburbs into economic crap holes that no one will visit. Eg Takapuna. Many others.
      
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      November 24, 2023 9:02am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Takapuna area is great, but what the Council has done to the main drag Hurstmere Rd is plain stupid. Fucking trees all over the place – that means birdshit everywhere. Trees grow, roots grow, uneven footpaths! I avoid Taka now. Same with Milford. Destroyed by experts.
        
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        November 24, 2023 9:55am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Local councils seem to be a prime target for militant green-extremist/marxist utopians.
        
        Get a spotlight on who prospective councillors are ideologically prior to elections and make voting compulsory. This should stop people accidentally voting in completely unrealistic space cadets.
        
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        November 25, 2023 5:53pm
    - Swifty
      
      Social housing – absolutely and completely a central government function.
      
      Council money spent on that inevitably drains their ability to deliver on essential three water and local roading infrastructure – areas absolutely council’s responsibility to deliver on.
      
      As we have seen to our sorrow.
      
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      November 24, 2023 9:04am
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      The conference centre
      
      The town hall
      
      The library
      
      The cycle paths
      
      The new waterfront play area
      
      The jobs they do, or are to do, could be adequately done at far less expense. They don’t require fancy, over-designed buildings.
      
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      November 24, 2023 9:04am
      - rouppe
        
        $2.4 million pedestrian crossing on Cobham Drive
        
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        November 24, 2023 9:30am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Devonport Library curtain. $100,000 thankyou.
        Nobody sees it, tucked away from sticky fingers, it is only drawn at night time.
        Perfect example of waste.
        
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        November 24, 2023 10:01am
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      Oh, and the Golden Mile revamp
      
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      November 24, 2023 9:05am
      - kowtow
        
        Problem is the Golden Fountains councils spray all over all of us.Using our money to do it too.
        
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        November 24, 2023 9:33am
    - greybeard
      
      Artworks.
      Social activities / cultural activities.
      Cycleways.
      “Sister Cities”.
      Overseas trips when “Zoom” would do.
      Endless seminars and “training courses”.
      Employment of unnecessary staff.
      Endless “koha” & “consultation costs”.
      Consultants.
      More consultants.
      Bad decisions requiring legal rectification at great expense.
      
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      November 24, 2023 9:15am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        You missed food, or does that come under Social Activities along with drinkies?
        
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        November 24, 2023 10:03am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Rainbow pedestrian crossing
      
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      November 24, 2023 6:35pm
  - Swifty
    
    We shouldn’t overlook too the frequent laying of new and greater burdens on local government by central government.
    
    The avalanche of new laws and regulations, set nationally, but required to be implemented and enforced at the local level – and frequently with absolutely no funding attached to ease that burden.
    
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    November 24, 2023 8:58am
  - I remember when
    
    Council expenditure is often expenditure that the government consider it politically expedient for them to offload.
    
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    November 24, 2023 9:00am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Want to get Council’s out of frivolous spending?Re-write the LGA.
    
    This times 1,000,0000. When that thing was passed in 2002 I immediately saw that it was designed to allow the Left to push much of their bullshit even when they weren’t in power in Central Government – and so it has proved to be.
    
    Kill it and replace with something much more restrictive as to the duties and responsibilities of local government – something akin to what existed before the LGA – then we can talk about revenue.
    
    I’m sorry to say that this is yet another example of the New Zealand Right being a bit clueless about their opponents. They could have killed it in 2008, just six years after it was implemented and before all the resulting management infrastructure to enable it had been bedded into local authorities. But I’d bet few, if any, of their MP”s saw where it could lead and in any case the Super City was just one more step and National encouraged it and ACT enabled it.
    
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    November 24, 2023 10:02am
    - cmm
      
      “I’m sorry to say that this is yet another example of the New Zealand Right being a bit clueless about their opponents.”
      
      What New Zealand Right?
      Act is centre, National are centre-left and just lurch further left from there.
      
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      November 24, 2023 12:07pm
  - sungsamning
    
    Also, a poll tax to replace rates.
    
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    November 24, 2023 10:39am
    - Cassandra
      
      Poison. Ask Mrs T. Might be right but it ain’t gonna happen.
      
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      November 24, 2023 10:47am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  “Higher income earners would pay much higher rates than currently.”
  
  Higher income earners usually own larger, more expensive homes/properties so already pay higher rates. They don’t necessarily use more council resources such as sewerage, etc.
  
  Increased use of cycleways will result in less income for government (especially cities such as Auckland with their regional petrol tax) since less petrol will be purchased.
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:26am
  - Simon
    
    Cretin council wants everyone to walk but the roaming bands of criminal scum that infest Auckland CBD for eg makes it unsafe to do so.
    
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    November 24, 2023 9:05am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Regional petrol tax is going. We soend more on petrol than any other NZ City and get penalised for it.
    Socialist claptrap.
    
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    November 24, 2023 10:06am
- redeye
  
  Is this essential spending that this activist is talking about?
  
  Poor documentation and financial management within the city council’s three waters unit led to a $6.5 million staffing blowout, an external investigation has found.
  
  Twenty-six staff were hired over four years either without proper approval, against the wishes of the council, or outside approved budgets, according to an independent review commissioned by outgoing chief executive Dawn Baxendale.
  
  The KPMG report, released to The Press under official information laws, points to failures not just within Christchurch City Council’s three waters department but across the executive leadership, human resources and finance teams.
  
  …
  
  The KPMG report was completed in June. It cost the council $302,485 including GST, and the council spent an additional $253,574 in relation to the review process – a total of $556,059.
  
  https://www.thepress.co.nz/a/nz-news/350117045/councils-three-waters-unit-had-65m-blowout-unapproved-hiring-staff
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:55am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    What a cluster
    
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    November 24, 2023 6:37pm
- sirknz
  
  I’m alarmed by anything that she promotes.
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:55am
- thirteenstars
  
  Councils don’t have a revenue crisis, they have a spending crisis, which translates to a rates crisis and a cost of living crisis.
  
  Being a local body employee used to be an important but humble calling. Now it’s a lucrative alternative to sucking at the tit of central government and a way to spread woke.
  
  During the election there was talk of central government doing some revenue sharing with councils. This is a bad idea. It’s akin to giving the addict an extra fix.
  
  Councils need to slim down, stop getting involved in commercial activities and property speculation, concentrate on infrastructure, and behave openly and democratically.
  
  The new Minister of Local Government has quite a job to do. I hope they get stuck in. Reform is needed.
  
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  November 24, 2023 9:38am
  - plc
    
    Effectively councils need to “stay within their lanes”.
    
    It should not be in their remit to “fight climate change”, “promote the Treaty” or act as an event manager. Social housing, childcare centres, etc are not in their remit. If they do their job properly the private sector will provide (with central government as a backstop).
    
    Deliver maintenance of infrastructure, facilitate business and be fiscally responsible.
    
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    November 24, 2023 10:07am
    - thirteenstars
      
      Problem is, quite some time ago the Local Government Act was “reformed” to allow councils more latitude in what they could engage in, which has lead to all manner of non-core spending and lack of focus resulting in large year-on-year rates increases, debt and neglect.
      
      It’s central government’s job to define what scope councils should have. Major reform is needed to restrict council activities to core services which will require divestment of non-core assets and activities. It’s the only way to keep rates at sane levels and reduce debt.
      
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      November 24, 2023 10:55am
- Rich Prick
  
  This “expert” clearly hasn’t heard about things called developer contributions, they are supposed to pay for public infrastructure associated with developments. Of course we don’t know whether councils use that money for that purpose, or whether they waste it on cycle ways.
  
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  November 24, 2023 9:44am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Yep. and the Developer Contributions can be tens of thousands of dollars.
    And its just not Councils.
    I know of one Project where Watercare are charging up to $25,000 for a water connection
    
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    November 24, 2023 10:34am
    - GJM
      
      $25k for a water connection is typical for a house with watercare. It is not per connection, but per “HUE” or household equivalent unit. An apartment block hasa single conenction, but say 200 units = 200 HUE. A commercail user might use 10 households worth = 10 HUE. https://www.watercare.co.nz/Manage-account/Our-charges
      
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      November 24, 2023 3:03pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Chardonnay socialists and those from ‘nice’ Chardonnay socialist backgrounds tend to say all kinds of sh!t
  
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  November 24, 2023 10:10am
- ISeeRed
  
  Rates revenue and tax revenues in general have never been higher. But, like heroin addicts, it’s never enough for the professional parasites.
  
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  November 24, 2023 3:04pm
hmmokrightitis

So, today we see the new Government.

Despite all of the useless commentary about how long, Luxon said he was this blahblahblah, he and they have simply and calmly got on with getting on with the job in hand, not given in to snide media remarks or responded in anything other than simple and “holding pattern” terms – and good on them.

Even Chippy the failed PM couldnt resist a jab – and yet he was a minister in the last government when it took power with a clear majority and still took how long to form a government?

I hope this approach to the media and decision making continues. Well done Mr Luxon; whilst we have yet to see the outcome and the outcome in action, I like the cut of your jib thus far.
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November 24, 2023 8:11am
- gravedodger
  
  That woman and CHipkins did not form any Government, they established a Demolition squad to prepare the site for erection of a marxist monolith, a latest of a long list of abject failures.
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:56am
- MCōs
  
  I don’t think an inordinate amount of time was taken to get this far. Especially considering there are three parties involved all pushing their own barrows.
  Furthermore
  Every possible detail and future stumbling block has to be ironed out up front otherwise you know who is going to be a pain in the neck.
  
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  November 24, 2023 9:11am
  - PeeJay
    
    Good comment.
    
    I think the “40 days since election” is also uninformed gibberish just making trouble.
    
    While National and ACT would no doubt have had much of their policy agreements worked out prior to the specials being confirmed, it’s well know that Peters does not discuss any deal until after the specials were counted. Peters is notoriously hard to deal with, therefore no serious negotiations with NZF would have occurred until the election result was confirmed on 3rd November.
    
    Therefore, 20 days from the result being official and having to get a historic three-party agreement, with all the details and issues resolved as you say, not too bad when you think about it.
    
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    November 24, 2023 9:53am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    You OK MCos?
    That is clear and accurate. Good man.
    
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    November 24, 2023 10:14am
    - MCōs
      
      Of course
      It’s common sense
      
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      November 24, 2023 1:03pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Even better!
        
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        November 24, 2023 1:05pm
slightlyrighty

Tova is reporting that the 2 minor parties are unsure which portfolios the other may have secured.

While I generally take anything from our MSM with a grain of salt, the notion that a comprehensive, 3 party coalition has been agreed to and neither minor party is completely aware of the specifics of what the other minor party has, indicates to me that the Nats have played this very well.
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November 24, 2023 8:12am
- pdm
  
  SR. That was a (another) bloody awful piece from Tova this morning.
  
  I suggest she resigns and joins the Labour Party – she could be leader by the end of January.
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:44am
  - gravedodger
    
    Great idea pdm her demolition abilities would finally consign the bunch of losers to where they need to be, the tip.
    
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    November 24, 2023 8:58am
  - RoboRob
    
    That has been my prediction for some time. She has Labour leader written all over her. Stuff will be bust or under new ownership by next election and she will try and do a JA by jumping in as leader in the last ~3mths before the election.
    
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    November 24, 2023 9:19am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    From the leakmaestro herself:
    “Myriad leaks from all directions have ensured a healthy diet of meaty headlines, …..”
    
    How about – ” A paucity of leaks has taxed our keyboard interview skills to the extreme, …”
    
    She really is on another planet!
    
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    November 24, 2023 9:23am
    - NothingLeft
      
      That would align with her primary source being her butthole. Some Depends™ will help with the leaks.
      
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      November 24, 2023 9:50am
    - nathie
      
      Stuff’s keyboards demand to be paid due to the inordinate amount of time Tova spends interviewing them!
      
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      November 24, 2023 12:29pm
- septic skeptic
  
  If that’s the case, it certainly isn’t what I would call a comprehensive 3 party coalition. More like a recipe for resentment.
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:47am
- Damocles11
  
  I’ll be making a conscious effort to visit the Stuff website much less; there is an increasing effort there to ram the obnoxious and vapid ‘Tova’ down everyones throats via innumerable opinion pieces, video clips, podcasts, and articles. If they secretly hope to drive people away from their site they are going the right way about it.
  
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  November 24, 2023 9:11am
  - kowtow
    
    Do . Support democracy one click at a time by active avoidance.
    
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    November 24, 2023 9:35am
  - sungsamning
    
    I only visit Stuff and the Herald if there is a link from a blog.
    
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    November 24, 2023 10:43am
- RoboRob
  
  If Tovas report, which I will never read, is as you say thats bullshit. Winston and Seymour would never accept that. Luxon would be crazy to do that too as the minute the positions are announced there would be needless infighting.
  
  Tova is interviwing her typewriter again. Dont visit Stuff and dont read Tova.
  
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  November 24, 2023 9:22am
  - RoboRob
    
    Having just listened to the announcement of the new government it is 100% clear that not only was Tova 100% wrong, the parties may actually be getting along quite well.
    
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    November 24, 2023 11:27am
G152

I am not surprised and the reason for this is after the Aljazeera excuse that those tunnels under the hospital didnt exist the Israeli went through, found those nonexistant tunnels and videod them.
So the excuse went back to videos of children being carried to and fro and claims made
And the hospital staff would have known they were there but somehow managed to avoid the subject whil screaming ‘think of the kids’
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November 24, 2023 8:13am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Israel intelligence would have known about the locations of all these tunnels for years. They will have informants Gaza.
  
  I had heard of the tunnels but I had no idea of their scale.
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:47am
  - I remember when
    
    Why was there ever any doubt about there being Hamas tunnels under populated buildings/hospitals?
    Where would you put the tunnels if you were Hamas?
    
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    November 24, 2023 9:06am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      If I was Hamas I would build tunnels somewhere near food, water, medical supplies, electricity, wifi, security, laundry. Hospital sounds like a good place instead of the middle of the desert.
      
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      November 24, 2023 10:22am
      - All_on_Red
        
        You forgot Kindergartens and schools…
        
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        November 24, 2023 10:30am
  - All_on_Red
    
    ‘ The director of the Shifa Hospital in the Gaza Strip was apprehended and transferred for ISA questioning following evidence showing that the Shifa Hospital, under his direct management, served as a Hamas command and control center,” the statement read.’
    
    Take a tour of the Tunnels in the Video in the link
    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/11/notes-from-underground.php
    
    To add, early on Israel managed to seize extensive Maps from some of the Hamas strongholds.
    This enabled them to collapse tunnels connecting North with South where Israel bisected Gaza trapping Hamas in the North.
    Classic encircling strategy. It seems they have pretty much wiped out Hamas in the North and are close to cleaning it out entirely.
    
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    November 24, 2023 9:50am
    - KH
      
      The Powerline blog. Really Red?? Just another of those conspiracy rants out of the US. Please say you don’t follow similar? Or do you have a list?
      
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      November 24, 2023 1:01pm
      - ProtectBabiesFromPredators
        
        Like air is just another invisible thing that is not real?
        Like, you can’t trust the Internet?
        What an asinine statement!
        
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        November 24, 2023 6:25pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        PBFP
        You need to understand that poor KH got exposed following a source which is Russian Propaganda
        They are quite embarrassed at being shown as being really foolish so they are lashing out
        Its really funny
        I’m still laughing at how the fool has been exposed
        
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        November 24, 2023 9:29pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Interesting that former Israeli PM admitted on air that Israel built the tunnels under the hospital decades ago. Apparently to store goods/supplies as limited floor space above ground.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVG7duZ-u2U
  
  So nobody should be surprised.
  
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  November 24, 2023 5:20pm
  - ProtectBabiesFromPredators
    
    Build higher? Or was that illegal back then?
    
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    November 24, 2023 6:26pm
  - KH
    
    So the Israelis built the tunnels there. That follows.
    Hospitals have huge hidden structure and the several basement level are a maze.
    One New Zealand hospital I have been in had a tunnel underneath the lawns and roads to a distant building. You would never know. Nurses used it.
    But you had to know which door to open. Spooky.
    Clearly Hamas had been there.
    
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    November 24, 2023 8:05pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      Lol
      Your denial is so funny
      
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      November 24, 2023 9:26pm
Keith White

New Zealanders with cancer and other serious, lethal disorders have to spend all the money they have and go begging in public, to have a better chance of short- and medium-term survival because, Pharmac.

Meanwhile Te What Ora blows $100million on consultants including 44mil on Deloitte.

Out of the 441 modern medicines launched in 20 OECD countries between 2011 and 2020, only 131 (30%) were registered in New Zealand and can be prescribed to Kiwi patients.

New Zealand publicly funded only 34 out of the 131 modern medicines registered in the country between 2011 and 2020. By contrast, Australia, the UK, and Germany publicly funded 120, 251, and 260 modern medicines, respectively.

But we can’t afford better because of giant tax-suction that is the Public Disservice and the Treaty Rort.
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November 24, 2023 8:13am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  My older than 65 year wife inquired about shingles vaccine and was told that the required two shots would cost $700. Our medical insurance won’t cover the costs.
  
  Free only if you are exactly 65 years old.
  
  What is the logic behind this kind of thinking? On average 1/3 of the population will get the painful shingles in their lifetime.
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:43am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I had my shingles vaccine when 68. Free. Only one shot. I was told one shot was all that was needed.
    Comes from chickenpox which I had as a kid. No vaccines way out in the sticks.
    
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    November 24, 2023 10:30am
    - KH
      
      It’s easy to blag Phamac. But nobody blags the pharmaceutical industry for it’s outrageous pricing.
      I suspect PR consultants set that up.
      
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      November 24, 2023 1:05pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        You will love the Indian law.
        
        If western pharma charge too much then Indians can make same generic for waaaay less.
        
        India is now largest drug manufacturer in the world. Wonder why?
        
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        November 24, 2023 5:22pm
    - MCōs
      
      There’s a better vaccine available now which is probably the one being discussed
      
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      November 24, 2023 1:08pm
Sensible moderate views

Winston is back! Something tells me he’s planning for utu.
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November 24, 2023 8:16am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  On whom, and for what?
  
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  November 24, 2023 9:06am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    For National not coming to the party in 2020?
    
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    November 24, 2023 2:07pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

American left are going full retard. Never go full retard.
Trump is more dangerous than Hitler, Mussolini, and Putin?

https://www.rvmnews.com/2023/11/msnbc-panic-trump-is-more-dangerous-than-hitler-mussolini-putin-videos/?
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November 24, 2023 8:20am
- imalwaysright
  
  A ceasefire is great news
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:30am
  - bennerg
    
    Do you mean the US Democrats are called a ceasefire on Trump?
    
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    November 24, 2023 9:06am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Not with you on that. Wrong thread?
    
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    November 24, 2023 2:08pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      S.O
      I posted it as a reply instead of a new thread. Apologies.
      
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      November 24, 2023 2:59pm
cas

There’s not an awful lot of acknowledgement by the media that of the 3 leaders who form our next Govt, 2 are Maori, well at least as Maori as Willie Jackson.
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November 24, 2023 8:21am
- kowtow
  
  Always remember te media pahti, who claim to demand “diversity” did their best ( along with the Wets) to destroy the most powerful ‘diverse’ political opposition couple in modern NZ history .
  
  B n B , Bridges and Bennett.
  
  The media don’t want “diversity” , they want conformity to Marxism.
  
  Diversity , equity call it what you will is simply a Machieavellan but Marxist means to an end .
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:53am
- Simon
  
  Will Willie’s War break out later?
  
  Willie couldn’t walk up a hill, it will be someone else doing the fighting.
  
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  November 24, 2023 9:08am
  - G152
    
    There is only one use for a Willie and that one appears damaged
    
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    November 24, 2023 10:49am
- RoboRob
  
  I dont care what the ethnicity of the leaders is, only their quality. I will note that these attributes do matter to the left but they always ignore them when they are present on the right. You would never know the Bridges was a Maori and Helen clarke was NZs first female PM becuase they ignore the existance of Jenny Shipley.
  
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  November 24, 2023 9:26am
Tomtoddy

It took 2 hours and 10 mins to drive the 35 kms from Auckland downtown to Papakura late afternoon. As we ground along, I wondered why I so easily accepted this as OK. Maybe on a Friday before a long weekend but there was nothing special about yesterday.

The anti car outfit are winning the battle easily.
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November 24, 2023 8:21am
- KH
  
  Let’s then go for a stable population. Say five million max.
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:29am
  - bennerg
    
    When in business I always bemoaned that the NZ population was too small for an effective local economy. I observed many companies not making it here in our small economy, and then getting snapped up from overseas too early, and losing control / ownership.
    
    I would suggest we need 10 – 12 Million. Of course not just in Auckland. I always thought there needed to be a planned new city between Auckland and Hamilton, and others in selected locations around the country.
    
    We have plenty of space. But new locations need to be chosen well to fit in with transport and resources such as water and electricity. Not a huge challenge I would suggest. Some dams would do the trick!!
    
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    November 24, 2023 9:12am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      For 10 million we need NUCLEAR!
      
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      November 24, 2023 10:36am
    - KH
      
      Actually it would be a better place with two million people. We would be richer, and still be able to find a park.
      
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      November 24, 2023 12:45pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Would not be able to afford the Treaty Gravy Train though.
        
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        November 24, 2023 2:12pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    KH. Too late
    Already over 5 mill
    
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    November 24, 2023 5:28pm
- Simon
  
  Immigration numbers too high for Auckland’s infrastructure. That includes schools, housing, health. Too many people have arrived over 15 yrs. Even if Steve Jobs was running Auckland it would still be a mess. Wellington Clown Show are the problem.
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:31am
  - waikatosinger
    
    Immigration levels are set in Wellington but the impact is felt mainly in Auckland.
    
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    November 24, 2023 9:14am
    - kowtow
      
      I don’t think they can ‘control” or set anything .
      
      They’re utterly incompetent.
      
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      November 24, 2023 9:38am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Socialists. Wellington is infested with them.
        
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        November 24, 2023 10:37am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The people who arrived have found the wonders of the Welfare dependent system.
    
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    November 24, 2023 2:15pm
- peterwn
  
  I once drove from Papakura to Remmers in 20 minutes. Mind you it was off-peak traffic.
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:38am
  - Jethrod
    
    At 3 am
    
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    November 24, 2023 10:30am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Back in the days when I would drive from the Shore to Hamilton in just over 100 minutes.
    The cars are faster now, so what went wrong? Could it be the roads?
    Seriously, Alaska only has 733,000 people but their motorway/freeway system puts NZ to shame. We are so pathetic!!
    
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    November 24, 2023 2:19pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  This sounds paranoid, but I think the anti car outfit are deliberately creating traffic issues to help sell their narrative.
  The apparent recent plague of traffic jams related to malls is suspicious.
  
  If those issues weren’t factored in during the planning stage then those responsible should be sacked instantly. It’s not rocket science and Auckland Council have more than enough overpaid traffic planners to either ensure the traffic flows, or don’t approve the project.
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:51am
  - kowtow
    
    Not paranoid at all.
    
    Plain to see.Been happening for a long long time.
    
    Traffic light phasing and lane markings changed to favour pedestrians and cyclists , of course in the interests of “safety” slow traffic down to a snails pace.Creates tail backs .
    People are then forced to ask themsleves is it faster by other means. ( answer from the control freaks; catch the bus and save the planet, walk for your health or cycle)
    
    latest is all those 30 k limits going in all over .
    
    The ulez business in London is a major example of the control freakery , war on freedom.
    
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    November 24, 2023 9:00am
  - Bruce C
    
    Having dropped my wife to the Wellington airport at 4:30pm on Wednesday it took over an hour to drive to the north end of Oriental Parade. I parked the car there and walked to the city to get dinner and wait for the traffic to clear. It was a beautiful day for a walk, but speaking to locals this problem has been the new normal since the completion of cycle lanes in the city. Safe to assume correlation is causation in this instance. Caution, Imbeciles at work.
    
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    November 24, 2023 9:13am
    - I remember when
      
      Airport to the tunnel is a great way to fill in an hour at that time of the day.
      
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      November 24, 2023 9:25am
  - Simon
    
    Auckland Transport hate car drivers for sure. But as far as planning goes Labo in 2017 said there would be a pause on immigration until infrastructure caught up. (no discussion on immigration in general of course). And of course there was no pause and immigration numbers are at record level.
    
    Immigration numbers are too high. Would need 10 to 15 yr pause / very limited numbers. But the state is very content to tax farm the economy and immigration is a driver of the tax farming.
    
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    November 24, 2023 9:19am
    - NothingLeft
      
      There’s a baked-in requirement in our unfunded welfare state superannuation that we have far more young adults than elderly to pay tax. Anything else leads to collapse, and the only way we can achieve that now that fewer women choose to have kids is through a lot of immigration.
      
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      November 24, 2023 9:58am
    - MCōs
      
      When I was in Middlemore Hospital I noticed a very high proportion of the nursing staff were immigrants
      I talked to the doctor in charge of the surrounding wards and he told me understaffing was a big problem
      
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      November 24, 2023 10:41am
      - Ghost
        
        Yeah. Thamk goodness for immigration. My father had his hip replacement done by an Arab, before that a south African. We’d be screwed without all these immigrants. I know a senior radiologist and nurse who have moved over from Argentina.
        
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        November 24, 2023 10:56am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Ghost if NZ had an economy instead of a NIMBY “karen”commune, it could afford nice treatments like Australia does.
        
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        November 25, 2023 6:01pm
  - MCōs
    
    I’m only aware of one traffic issue of cars exiting a mall. Were there more?
    The exit from Westfield Mall, Newmarket is onto Morrow St which is one way to Gillies Ave & just along there is the entrance to the M/W which is always busy
    On the other hand out the front of the mall are buses and trains going all over the place
    Of course slugs like me take the car. Except not next time
    
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    November 24, 2023 9:31am
    - ProtectBabiesFromPredators
      
      The Asian way would be to put a Cop on the road to direct traffic. Happens daily in Bangkok. In New Zealand, there is little awareness, much less proactive Policing.
      
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      November 24, 2023 7:36pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Not paranoid at all Clan
    Its called Road Diet
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_diet
    
    The problem is all the Planners are sucked into the Climate nonsense so go overboard on it
    Noticed how we have seen the growth of raised crossings everywhere?
    
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    November 24, 2023 10:07am
  - sungsamning
    
    I agree. There are bike lanes on either side of Ilam Road between the school, and uni. Vastly under utilized, of course. Then there are those 30-40 k speed limit signs. I hope the new coalition really do get rid of them.
    
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    November 24, 2023 10:48am
    - MCōs
      
      I used to go to school in Chch back in the sixties
      There were bikes everywhere
      Pretty much all the kids at school used bikes. The sun always shone in those days
      
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      November 24, 2023 1:22pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Building goat tracks where 8 lanes are needed.
    Been to Penrose/Greenlane on a Friday afternoon?
    
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    November 24, 2023 2:25pm
Maggie Pie

“It would be insulting to David Seymour if he isn’t given the Deputy PM role”

– HDPA NewstalkZB 23 Nov

[Could you see Winnie taking orders from Dave while Luxo was out of the country?]
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November 24, 2023 8:22am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Heather has been saying some weird things in the last couple of weeks.
  
  I can’t see Winston Peters taking orders from Chris Luxon either.
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:27am
  - cmm
    
    That’s why you give WP foreign minister and send him out of the country most of the time.
    It is a role he’s actually good at, he enjoys and keeps him out of everyone’s hair.
    
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    November 24, 2023 8:44am
  - gravedodger
    
    Wonder how Bazza is doing Benedict, stress perhaps?
    
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    November 24, 2023 9:01am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      It has been two months. He should be substantially recovered.
      
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      November 24, 2023 9:32am
      - Beach Haven expat
        
        Would be nice to have him back. The only entertaining bit of listening to the child Walls is Heather’s withering dismissal of him. She is maybe biased but clearly doesn’t taste him as a political editor.
        
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        November 24, 2023 3:06pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I was against Peters being Deputy PM, but changed my tune.
    Peters can cover for Luxon when the media get unruly. We saw that today. Mr Luxon will learn from Winston very quick.
    A change in Govt does not mean a change in nasty bastards media!
    
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    November 24, 2023 2:35pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    He was deputy to the queen of woke!!
    
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    November 25, 2023 6:04pm
- Swifty
  
  Give me key ministries to make huge improvements in over DPM any day.
  
  In generations to come people will remember the positive difference you made not that you were once DPM.
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:32am
  - thirteenstars
    
    Indeed. Seymour would take any number of portfolios before he would take the bauble of DPM.
    
    Especially Education but Stanford’s probably got that locked up. ACT need to get into her ear and apply the pressure.
    
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    November 24, 2023 9:58am
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      Hopefully though, he had the sense to tearfully plead and beg for it in Winnie’s hearing so that Winne would want it for himself and be distracted from the fact that David was getting the jobs that can actually do something
      
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      November 24, 2023 10:49am
    - Ghost
      
      Seymour has been in the media saying why he should be deputy
      
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      November 24, 2023 10:59am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I’m not as old as Winnie…and I’m in good health, but the thought of sitting through endless meetings, flitting up and down the country a couple of times a week, and talking to people you have no friendship/relationship with sounds like hell on earth.
  
  I really expect Winston will discover he has not enough gas in the tank before 3 years is up.
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:35am
  - pdm
    
    Maggy Winston is almost exactly a year older than me.
    
    I agree with you.
    
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    November 24, 2023 8:47am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I’ve given up making those predictions about him. He may still be there in 2029. 😂
      
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      November 24, 2023 8:51am
  - cmm
    
    Maggy, we’re all wired differently.
    WP’s been doing this for 30 years or whatever. He knows what he enjoys doing.
    
    In the old days (think traveling by ship and having to communicate with telegrams), the deputy PM had to really step up to be PM while the real PM was away for 3 months.
    Now deputy PM generally has few urgent things to deal with, especially in this age of Zoom meetings etc.
    
    PS: $350k+ a year.
    
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    November 24, 2023 8:49am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      It is about 250k a year. And he has been doing it for 45 years.
      
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      November 24, 2023 8:52am
      - Taieri
        
        It is about 250k a year. And he has been doing it for 45 years.
        ————
        
        45 years ago it was a bit less than that…
        
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        November 24, 2023 9:34am
      - cmm
        
        Deputy PM is $296k base.
        It is far more that 300k a year, especially when you add all the allowances etc.
        
        PS: Leader of the opposition is on $296k too, so Chippy is doing pretty darn well for SFA effort.
        
        Leader of the opposition has to be the best gig in town for a slacker.
        
        https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2020/0327/latest/LMS438252.html
        
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        November 24, 2023 12:54pm
      - wsk12345
        
        Is leader of the opp automatically given to the highest polling opposition party? Or say the smaller opp parties such as TPM and greens were as big as labour, could they form an opposition coalition with its own leader?
        
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        November 24, 2023 4:17pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The fish are calling at Whananaki.
    
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    November 24, 2023 10:48am
  - alwyn.a
    
    He is but a child compared to some politicians overseas.
    The oldest serving US senator, Strom Thurmond, was 100 years and 29 days old when he finally quit in January 2003.
    
    6 0
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    November 24, 2023 11:06am
  - ProtectBabiesFromPredators
    
    Never underestimate how Earth grounds Winston.
    Revenge is such sweet sorrow.
    I predict an evolving, of sorts.
    Asa always, never trust a Politician?
    
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    November 24, 2023 8:44pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, HDPA’s afternoon show may revert to Hawkesby who originally had it. Heather has kids to look after.
  
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  November 24, 2023 10:04am
KH

All the trouble of the new government is predicted by the media. They are setting us up with that idea so they can spend the next few years writing about squabbles rather than important stuff.
Best not to let them guide your thinking.
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November 24, 2023 8:28am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I hope that Chris Luxon finds ways to communicate directly with the public. I’m not a communications expert, far from it. But maybe a quarterly “address to the nation” would work. Not useless word waffle but straight talking updates on progress, including explaining why some things are proving more difficult than originally planned.
  
  Otherwise all these idiot journalists will be looking to catch Luxon in stupid “gotcha” interviews.
  
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  November 24, 2023 8:57am
  - Swifty
    
    I fully agree.
    
    Report on progress using numbers, and against plans.
    
    Use social media much more too.
    
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    November 24, 2023 9:06am
  - bennerg
    
    Rob Muldoon had his Sunday afternoon show on Radio Pacific. Anyone could ring in and speak to the Prime Minister AND get a answer.
    
    Maybe the answer was not what you wanted to hear, but he got to listen to real people, not just consultants and the sycophants.
    
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    November 24, 2023 9:16am
    - MCōs
      
      Waste of time ringing a politician if you think you’ll catch them out
      
      2 5
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      November 24, 2023 9:39am
  - sungsamning
    
    He should look at The Platform, and Reality Check Radio, amongst others.
    
    4 1
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    November 24, 2023 10:56am
  - Ra Henare
    
    Am intrigued Benedict.
    
    You seem to spend a lot of time nowdays commenting on KB.
    
    Have you eased off your day job?
    
    1 4
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    November 24, 2023 5:32pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      None of your f***ing business. This is a place for debate. Not poking into the private lives of commenters. Idiot.
      
      1 1
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      November 25, 2023 6:18pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        I’m starting to think there is something wrong mentally with some commentators
        They seem….quite nutty
        
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        November 25, 2023 6:51pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Yes nothing new. Commenters like “Ra Henare” cannot win on ideas so they smear other commenters. Watch them go ballistic over the next three years.
        
        ‘I have received no formal complaints.’
        
        ‘Yep yep that is what it is.’
        
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        November 25, 2023 7:19pm
  - ProtectBabiesFromPredators
    
    Benedict, you are a communications expert.
    Most, if not all, of Human statements are self-denial.
    It is a Characteristic, not a Trait.
    
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    November 24, 2023 8:50pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Soldier charged for gear he was instructed to leave behind in Afghanistan.
The Biden admin treat the military like shit.

https://www.rvmnews.com/2023/11/outrage-afghanistan-withdrawal-gets-worse-listen-to-this-soldiers-story-video/?
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November 24, 2023 8:28am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Steve Ott0 – next level shit. I came across this story in my covid narrative travels which is just another example.
  
  The Anthrax Vaccine
  Within the Department of Defense, a faction exists that is ideologically (and likely financially) invested in producing vaccines to defend against bio-terrorist attacks. This group was exposed after the anthrax distaster (discussed here), where they got the military to mandate a dangerous, experimental and unproven vaccine on our soldiers in order to preempt the possibility that Saddam would use anthrax on them during the 1991 Gulf War. Ultimately, Saddam never actually did this.
  
  The unneeded vaccine ended up being extremely dangerous, but unfortunately the military nonetheless continued mandating it long after the war. To illustrate:
  
  •Soon after the Gulf War, almost 36% of soldiers (approximately 250,000 of the 697,000 who served) came down with a chronic debilitating illness that eventually came to be known as “Gulf War Syndrome (GWS).
  
  •Per the GAO, between 16-37% of pilots who received the vaccine (many long after the Gulf War) lost the ability to fly.
  
  You can read the whole story here.
  
  https://www.midwesterndoctor.com/p/when-did-the-media-stop-covering-ad7?publication_
  
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  November 24, 2023 9:58am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I have read about the US Military being used as guinea pigs, but no real detail.
    It is you will take this or be discharged.
    There is a naughty little boy here – ignore him.
    
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    November 24, 2023 11:23am
- RichardX
  
  Did you watch the video?
  
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  November 24, 2023 9:59am
  - RichardX
    
    Of course you didn’t watch the video. The article is about claims made in a video that was “deleted”.
    
    Clan chips in with “Steve Ott0 – next level shit”, also without being able to verify any part of the claims.
    
    I am disappointed but not surprised at the gullibility of people, especially those that claim to weigh evidence before reaching conclusions.
    
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    November 24, 2023 10:44am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      RichardX – did you forget your meds this morning?
      
      I didn’t need to try and watch Steve’s video link because I had already come across the story and the video days ago.
      The video is available in multiple places. Because it has been removed from one platform is nothing more than further confirmation that narratives are heavily controlled. Like they were with covid.
      
      Just for you, here’s a link to the video Steve referenced that is still available. You’re welcome.
      
      https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1726732779738865730
      
      Apart from that, I responded with evidence that the US treat their military like lab rats and with 7 videos, all of which work, and multiple sources of evidence to support this within the link I gave. Feel free to ‘fact check’ my post.
      
      Pro tip, don’t embarrass yourself by using Snopes or Politifact.
      
      How much evidence do you actually need presented to you? Or do you not have the capacity to look for another source of news/evidence about a story to try and work out if it is legitimate or not?
      
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      November 24, 2023 11:23am
      - RichardX
        
        Thanks Clan, at least you actually watched the video.
        
        Now can you share how you verified the claims made in that video?
        
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        November 24, 2023 12:26pm
    - ProtectBabiesFromPredators
      
      Meaning that it is Gullible to be, reading and then balancing opinion? You excel, Richard!
      
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      November 24, 2023 8:54pm
oldpark

Sounds as if NZs so called TV Channels Labour Party TVNZ and American owned Far Left Television Three have scored an own goal with their bias and lack of reporting the end game of the Live announcing of the Tri-Part Deal by PM Christopher Luxon .
Yes yesterday when that was happening both mentioned so called Television Channels were missing in action .
The live report on Television came from Sky Australia.
The Lack of NZs Television Coverage for such an important announcement does not augur well for what lies ahead for fair balanced Television Coverage .Seems they only want to grovel in dirt rumour and innuendo with a chance to kneecap anything that will feed their far left appetites as they daily set out to denigrate the new Government of NZ .Hope not.
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November 24, 2023 8:29am
- NothingLeft
  
  New govt sending a message to NZ’s partisan media? Perhaps they only invited Sky.
  
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  November 24, 2023 10:03am
- david
  
  Smacks of Tit-for-Tat on the part of the NZ media oldpark.
  When Luxon treated them at arms length during the negotiations, they were reduced to just MSU (making shit up). When he had something to say, they went into nyah nyah nyah mode and threw their toys as they couldn’t actually say “we’ll teach you a lesson Mr Luxon” so they didn’t cover it. And that was after spending 40 days and 40 nights talking up a storm over how long it was taking.
  
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  November 24, 2023 10:48am
Benedict Yu

I’ve been watching some of the new video released of the January 6 “insurrection” at the Capitol Building. These hundreds of hours of video have been withheld for three years

https://youtu.be/xpcmauqLrnI?si=Ox_wZvMPyqbbvHVJ

The previous videos only showed the violence and the beaching of the building. However after the breach, hundreds of people, who had not been violent, simply wandered in, apparently peacefully walking along corridors,with the police just looking on. If you saw this video without context, you would think it was a bunch of folk on a walking tour of the building.

Sure, they were guilty of trespassing, and probably naive. However, many of them were charged with serious offences carrying long prison sentences. At least four of these people took their lives.
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November 24, 2023 8:38am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  A million hours of video still isn’t proof that something didn’t happen.
  
  Video showing some people not being guilty of anything more than trespass, doesn’t prove that other people weren’t guilty of doing something worse. Heck, it doesn’t even prove that the people in the video weren’t guilty of doing something worse. It proves only that they weren’t doing it at the times and places that they were videoed.
  
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  November 24, 2023 9:24am
  - NothingLeft
    
    True, but that could have been fairly established if the video had been made available to defendants and public to analyze. It wasn’t (and we all know why)
    
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    November 24, 2023 10:05am
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      I’ve no doubt there will be appeals on this very point, but I am still having difficulty seeing how the case can be made that if the court had seen video of me not doing the murder in the kitchen with the lead pipe at 5.00, it would have changed their minds about the video of me doing it in the conservatory with the pistol at 5.30.
      
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      November 24, 2023 11:07am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Let it go. This was a jack up from the beginning. They selectively edited the 40,000 hours of footage down to a few minutes to ‘prove’ their case. Any jury if presented with the other video evidence would have dismissed the case.
        
        There was no ‘insurrection’ in America on January 6th. Not by any metric.
        
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        November 24, 2023 11:27am
      - RichardX
        
        ClanMcleod
        Let it go. This was a jack up from the beginning. They selectively edited the 40,000 hours of footage down to a few minutes to ‘prove’ their case. Any jury if presented with the other video evidence would have dismissed the case.
        
        There was no ‘insurrection’ in America on January 6th. Not by any metric.
        
        NOVEMBER 24, 2023 11:27AM
        
        Any jury if presented with the other video evidence would have dismissed the case.
        Please present evidence in support of this claim.
        
        You totally avoided responding to DQ’s point;
        “I am still having difficulty seeing how the case can be made that if the court had seen video of me not doing the murder in the kitchen with the lead pipe at 5.00, it would have changed their minds about the video of me doing it in the conservatory with the pistol at 5.30.”
        
        There is footage from Albert Park on March 25 that shows a peaceful gathering.
        Do you think this in any way mitigates the violence that occurred that day?
        
        Do you think footage of nothing happening at a different time could be used as a defense for any illegal activities?
        
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        November 24, 2023 12:49pm
  - soundhill1
    
    People startd doing a bit after the police started aggravating them. From: “Redacted”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIYESmzwqLc
    
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    November 25, 2023 12:25am
- dcrane
  
  Yet video of this sort has been out for years (protestors respectfully walking around between the velvet ropes).
  
  A key question is whether they really are releasing ALL of the tapes and whether they are redacting any faces. The most important new revelations will likely come from painstaking efforts to research the actual individuals involved. Many FBI-protected provocateurs have been pointed out, but few identified by name yet (only Ray Epps).
  
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  November 24, 2023 10:39am
Maggie Pie

And from the ‘nice-work-if-you-can-get-it’ file…..

A short term ‘Property Consultant’ was engaged by Tahu-o-te-Ture (MoJ) @ $2000 per day. That was 17 months ago. LOL!

https://twitter.com/NewshubPolitics/status/1727740837025747031
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November 24, 2023 8:43am
- kevn
  
  Maggie… I wonder, is it the vaguely named consultancy company with a flash office down the Viaduct?
  Lots of people been feeding big time from the labour teat.
  
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  November 24, 2023 9:07am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    What i do know kevie, is that Labor paid $500k to lease a building for a few months on Pier21 for the proposed Northern Pathway.
    Nobody ever even set foot in it. LOLOL!!
    
    13 1
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    November 24, 2023 9:17am
I remember when

Newshub’s Kaipara joins NZ Olympic Committee as Maori culture lead: Newshub.
Newshub journalist Orini Kaipara has been appointed new Pouwhiringa Maori Culture lead for the NZ Olympic Committee.
“This role will greatly assist us in our Te Ao Maori journey and the development of Te Whare o Pou Tangata for the New Zealand team and our organisation,” said NZOC Chief Executive Nicki Nicol.

Or, Nicki could have said, it is another example of the seemingly endless unnecessary ‘add ons’ the Olympics seem to attract.
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November 24, 2023 8:45am
- kowtow
  
  More divisiveness , here racial .Seems the opposite of the idea of the Olympic spirit which was about unity , striving etc
  
  But in any event it’s all Greek colonialism and Eurocentric if you ask me.
  
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  November 24, 2023 10:33am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Why is there a determined effort to split this country apart via racism? This taxpayer funded emphasis on the language and culture of one group who make up 17% of the population will not end well.
  
  Of those 17%, the majority will have more DNA from other races than they have Maori.
  
  Now don’t get me wrong, I have zero problem with someone celebrating their heritage, but when it is taxpayer funded and being forced onto many who aren’t really interested in the language in particular, it becomes divisive.
  
  I went to the Auckand Council website today, it is almost unreadable. Top banner:
  
  Te Kaunihera o Tāmaki Makaurau
  
  In tiny script underneath, Auckland Council. I almost closed the page as I thought I was on the Maori version by mistake.
  
  They have a button with the option to read it in Te Reo or English on the page. So why is it predominantly in Maori when the English button is selected??? If I choose ‘English’ it means I don’t need to see the Maori equivalent name!
  
  https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/Pages/default.aspx
  
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  November 24, 2023 11:36am
Swifty

Oh dear.

The UN Rapporteur for Palestine perhaps not the impartial, objective peacemaker we thought she was:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wp73veSrKho
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November 24, 2023 8:49am
- Master Mariner
  
  My thoughts too Swifty, Paid by the Palestinians to attend and spread propaganda.
  
  It really is time too dismantle the UN much the same as The League of Nations.
  
  Well and truely passed its “Use By Date”.
  
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  November 24, 2023 9:35am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    UN and their overpaid technocrats at the WHO along with them. It is long past time to ditch any connection to these unelected bodies which have been increasing their power and influence on genuine democracies for years. At our expense.
    
    As you say, they have long ago passed the point of doing the job they were set up to do and have taken on a life of their own. Dangerous entities that need disbanded.
    
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    November 24, 2023 10:08am
- rouppe
  
  Jeez I wish we had journalists with that sort of chutzpah here.
  
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  November 24, 2023 10:02am
emmess

I had epiphany about the word ‘Islamophobic’
Is it not the far left that are Islamophobic because they are scared what radical Muslims will do to them or atleast that they will called racist, even though Islam is not a race.
It is those that are standing up to radical Islam that are not afraid.
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November 24, 2023 8:50am
- Master Mariner
  
  There is a term for it, And yes fully agree.
  
  People that cry Racism are by default Racist themselves.
  
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  November 24, 2023 9:39am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Harvard must be a great place. All sorts want to go there.

https://patriotsnewsstand.com/theteapartydaily/is-raping-allowed-prank-caller-tries-to-get-her-hamas-terrorist-son-admitted-to-harvard/?
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November 24, 2023 8:58am
Maggie Pie

And I see where Shaneel is having a wee tanty about the lack of Transgender MP’s
in Nationals line-up.
He needs to understand the country actually voted for a lack of diversity!

https://twitter.com/shaneellall/status/1726827612872544371
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November 24, 2023 9:23am
- Swifty
  
  God he’s pathetic.
  
  36 0
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  November 24, 2023 9:30am
  - Swifty
    
    I should explain that comment.
    
    We have massive, multi-generational challenges facing us in this country including maintaining our first world status, ensuring we can pay for ourselves in 50, 100 years time and more, and maintaining a relatively free, educated, independent and resourceful citizenry.
    
    The matters Lal concerns himself with so fanatically, that he demands we all pay attention to and become equally rabid about, are way, way, way down the list.
    
    In the big scheme of things, they and he are inconsequential. I wish more of us would act accordingly.
    
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    November 24, 2023 11:16am
- kevn
  
  Maggie… He should have voted labour. Plenty of other there. Or there used to be.
  
  11 1
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  November 24, 2023 9:30am
- Ghost
  
  How does he know there are no trans, is he assuming their pronouns without asking…..
  
  21 0
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  November 24, 2023 9:33am
- mandk
  
  Bing says 0.8% of the NZ adult population is transgender or non-binary.
  
  Based on this, 0.384 National MPs need to fall into this category for the party to be representative.
  
  In other words, if we had a 360-seat parliament, there might be 1 unicorn-gendered National MP.
  
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  November 24, 2023 10:06am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Bing talks rubbish
    
    1 0
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    November 24, 2023 7:04pm
- Yabster
  
  hes irrelevant- stop looking at the dickheads tweets and he will fade away…
  
  11 0
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  November 24, 2023 10:07am
- alex Masterley
  
  He can just eff of back to irrelevancy.
  
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  November 24, 2023 11:44am
Ghost

Must be exam time

Further “concerning emails” have been sent to mainly Auckland organisations, following 15 that were sent to schools and hospitals on Thursday.

Article
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November 24, 2023 9:31am
- jedmo
  
  Yes, who is behind this, if we had a functioning msm they would be contacting these places to ask what the threatener’ s agenda is. We the public are being given the mushroom treatment.
  
  6 0
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  November 24, 2023 12:11pm
  - Ghost
    
    Hopefully the person(s) aren’t smart enough to anonymize their emails.
    
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    November 24, 2023 12:42pm
Chuck Bird

This is 45 minutes but worth watching.

Arab Muslim Speaks About Her Life in Israel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_MfnpuafBg
7 1
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November 24, 2023 10:03am
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP7gmOer96c
Judge Declares Electronic Voting Machines Unconstitutional.
This should make it harder for Dems to steal thr 2024 election.
4 1
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November 24, 2023 10:09am
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FijCMXKevLM
Gore Mayor Ben Bell on why they want to dump their long-term plan.
They’re not sure if Three Waters will be a thing. So, they’re doing three annual ones. Maori Wards are off the agenda. The local rununga isn’t interested.
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November 24, 2023 10:10am
plc

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/301013033/ask-stuffs-editor-in-chief-keith-lynch-anything

Have at it people!

1. Tova O’Brien…..why?
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November 24, 2023 10:13am
- mandk
  
  2. Has Sharon Murdoch been advised that her talents are better suited to picking up dog shit than to cartoons?
  
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  November 24, 2023 10:32am
PeterB

What happened to Cam Slater. He has a black eye.
6 0
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November 24, 2023 10:17am
- cmm
  
  I expect being Cam Slater is what happened to Cam Slater.
  
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  November 24, 2023 12:41pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  An unhinged lefty lost control?
  
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  November 25, 2023 6:11pm
kglm

I will be very disappointed if the policy agreement to be announced does not include ACT’s referendum on the Treaty and NZ First’s wide ranging inquiry into the Covid actions, or at least some meaningful approximation to those. If National has been so weak as to negotiation these policies away because they would be “contentious”, then those who said that National would never deliver real change will have been proved correct.
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November 24, 2023 10:22am
- dcrane
  
  My wish would be for Peters to stand in the way of NZ signing the insane new so-called “pandemic treaty” the WHO elites are cooking up.
  
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  November 24, 2023 10:35am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    All MPs should be standing in the way of it. Apparently Brooke Van Velden isn’t a fan. She responded in 2022 to a question from someone concerned.
    
    “The WHO proved completely useless in response to covid. Why would we think any new treaty would be any different?”
    
    https://t.me/voicesforfreedom/3310
    
    Alia from VFF has emailed Brooke for an update on her position, now that she’s in government. The response should be interesting.
    
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    November 24, 2023 11:51am
mandk

“Tane Wipa, man fatally shot by police in Wainuiomata, left a life of crime and violence behind” (Newshub headline).

This explains why the cops were forced to shoot him when he was holding a knife at a woman’s throat.
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November 24, 2023 10:38am
- ClanMcleod
  
  nadk – “………left a life of crime and violence behind”
  
  Death can have that sort of effect on hardened criminals…..
  
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  November 24, 2023 11:52am
ds

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/503125/superannuation-fund-aotearoa-reaping-rewards-of-michael-cullen-s-creation-outgoing-ceo

The Cullen fund now has a value of $64.4b. Lets not forget that it would now be worth more than 100b if the Key government had contributed to it during the high growth period when they were in office.
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November 24, 2023 10:40am
- Benedict Yu
  
  It is a speculative investment fund, financed with borrowed money. AFAIK its returns, relative to the risks its managers impose on us all, are no better than the market average.
  
  It is in no respect a ‘sovereign wealth fund’ (along the lines of Norway and Saudi Arabia). It is merely the Crown speculating, because, well, it can.
  
  Additionally, its value in no way changes the question of the affordability of aged pensions. Because they are not affordable. Yes the fund could be used a smoothing mechanism, but it is not going to ‘finance’ pensions. Inevitably, the eligibility age is going to need to be progressively raised by two or three years.
  
  The fund should be wound up and used to repay Crown debt.
  
  EDIT: on this “if the Key government had contributed to it during the high growth period when they were in office..”
  
  The Key Government came to office at the start of a sharp recession – remember the forecast “decade of deficits”. Then there was the Christchurch earthquake. If it had kept up the super fund contributions, it would have had to raise taxes, borrow, or impose austerity.
  
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  November 24, 2023 11:01am
  - ds
    
    They did raise GST to finance to tax cuts for the wealthy. Lets not forget the sale of our electricity generation that would now cost 20 billion to buy back.
    I wonder how you think we should support retirees?
    
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    November 24, 2023 11:33am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Good grief. I see that you did not refute any of my points. Just a whole bunch of squirrels 🙂
      
      Here is a challenge. Find a single economist in New Zealand who:
      
      1. thinks the super fund is a good idea; and
      
      2. thinks the retirement age of 65 is sustainable.
      
      No a CTU or BERL economist does not count.
      
      EDIT: “I wonder how you think we should support retirees?”
      
      By progressively raising the retirement age to 68.
      
      By ramping up, over ten years, the employer contribution to Kiwisaver to 8 percent.
      
      For someone who is 20 years old now, that would allow a very nice retirement in 50 years, even for a low income earner.
      
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      November 24, 2023 11:51am
      - ds
        
        Considering the life expectancy of different ethnic groups is more than twelve years raising the retirement age to 68 is hardly balanced. White collar workers can not be treated the same as laborers.
        I support a government run pension like the Dutch AOW which does have speculative investment.
        Our opinion on NZ’s direction seem to differ.
        
        0 5
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        November 24, 2023 1:10pm
- Swifty
  
  At what cost?
  
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  November 24, 2023 11:07am
- ClanMcleod
  
  40 billion better off, didn’t Ardern blow more than 50 billion during her rein of terror?
  
  Anyway, since the irrational bull market ended it’s gone backwards. It was worth a lot more in 2021 and 22.
  
  https://figure.nz/chart/AORFWMdSdCpbsNyp
  
  Adrian Orr must have got wind of something, he bailed in 2018. Great timing.
  
  8 1
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  November 24, 2023 11:58am
- Aquarius
  
  Given that the NZ Government is borrowing furiously, and the NZSF predominantly invests offshore
  It is the exact equivalent of you borrowing against your house to invest the money offshore
  But by the lack of intelligence in your comment, I guess you might well be prepared to take that risk
  And by the way, the returns have not been at all spectacular, even against their own handpicked benchmark
  
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  November 24, 2023 1:34pm
Maggie Pie

Here’s a vid of the action from the ‘Free-Palestine’ blockade @POAL.

Needless to say, out of the hundreds of comments, there’s always ONE who thinks the cops were OTT. 😀 😀 😀

https://twitter.com/_MaccaNZ/status/1727615841880137854
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November 24, 2023 10:58am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Great tackle.
  
  11 0
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  November 24, 2023 11:58am
- nathie
  
  The video below it (titled “A few moments earlier…”) showing protesters confronting the Police line …. when will the protesters wake up to the fact that their aggressive actions will be turning off NZ’ers from supporting them? If not starting to despise them?
  
  And the protesters are also damaging the reputation of refugees coming from these troubled lands as being nothing but a bunch of trouble-makers bringing their hatred and conflicts with them. No thanks.
  
  And why aren’t these protesters working and contributing positively to NZ society?
  
  How about deporting refugees that are charged and found guilty by the courts? Or to avoid this simply respect the ways of NZ (as I would if I lived in another country by respecting their societal norms).
  
  https://twitter.com/_MaccaNZ/status/1727758752466800958
  
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  November 24, 2023 12:54pm
  - kowtow
    
    The media deliberately downplayed how an MP was treated at one of those anti Israel hate fests in Auckland a few weeks ago.
    
    Twiford was first jeered but then more concerningly he was forced off the podium by two men .
    
    He then had to be given a large police escort to get away from the place .
    
    This is not how we do things in a free , peaceful , stable and respectful democracy.
    
    But that’s the road we’re on .
    
    The fact it can’t and won’t be openly discussed in msm circles, for whatever reason, is gravely dangerous.
    
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    November 24, 2023 2:24pm
    - nathie
      
      Well said. Up until recent times the MSM would be calling out the trouble-makers.
      
      Now the MSM call out those against the trouble-makers (and are sympathetic towards them).
      
      (Which come to think about it, the MSM are now breaching their commitments to the Te Ao Māori/Te Tiriti …. because in the Māori world outsiders/newcomers must respect existing norms. Not bring their troubles with them and spray them about. Te Aotearoa MSM Pāti should be aligning with Te Ao Māori and calling these “imported” trouble-makers out. Serious)!
      
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      November 24, 2023 3:06pm
    - Swifty
      
      Kowtow – are you aware of any footage?
      
      4 0
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      November 24, 2023 3:10pm
      - kowtow
        
        Hope this works .
        
        https://www.tiktok.com/@ani.obrien/video/7297723561450556674
        
        4 0
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        November 24, 2023 4:39pm
      - Swifty
        
        Cheers kowtow.
        
        Many thanks.
        
        3 0
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        November 24, 2023 7:12pm
  - Swifty
    
    I just don’t understand the mindset of confronting, hassling, walking up on, trying to intimidate, getting physical with members of the NZ Police – over a protest concerning matters half a world away.
    
    Have your say by all means – but the aggression? The intimidation?
    
    Are these people unable to control themselves?
    
    If they are foreign nationals they should be on the first plane home. Piss off – we don’t want you.
    
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    November 24, 2023 3:09pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Yep. There’s no shortage of people wanting to come to NZ. If these people don’t want to fit in, it’s easy to find others who do.
      
      4 0
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      November 24, 2023 7:08pm
  - kevn
    
    Nathie… A big proportion of recent arrivals in that crowd.
    
    4 0
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    November 24, 2023 3:40pm
Lance

So disappointed in Mayor Brown and the moronic Auckland councilors that voted to remove the downtown carpark.
The waterfront is fucked now. I feel sorry for the Viaduct Basin restaurants. Not a chance in hell of getting a park within kilometers of the place, boy, they will be coming in to dine on the bus… //
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November 24, 2023 11:02am
- MCōs
  
  Or Uber
  
  1 4
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  November 24, 2023 1:26pm
  - Lance
    
    Just love those variable rates…. not
    
    6 0
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    November 24, 2023 2:27pm
info@cruzpro.com

“Whangārei iwi threaten occupation if housing development goes ahead”.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/whangarei-iwi-threaten-occupation-if-housing-development-goes-ahead/MwLYYIZX2RFHA5AQBVXD3RLLG64/

I was interested in listening to the reasons for the iwi not wanting this 93 home development in Kamo. Unfortunately the entire video was in Maoiri, which few understand. Very dissapointing.
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November 24, 2023 11:47am
NothingLeft

Much interwebs discussion/rumours today that OpenAI had recently made a breakthrough in getting their systems to think creatively in a goal oriented or ‘agentic’ manner, something referred to as “Q*” (Q-star), with immediate huge increase in creative problem solving abilities. If real this is a very large (perhaps _the_) critical step toward artificial general intelligence.

And it is speculated that it may have been what created the shake up at OpenAI as people with AI “safety” (ie will this lead to human extinction) concerns were worried that it was likely to be brought into public domain too soon without ascertaining risks

https://youtu.be/cDdbwAMTSBk?t=165
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November 24, 2023 11:48am
ClanMcleod

Controversial comment but fully supported by compelling evidence.

The Inconvenient and Damning Truth that the Official COVID Inquiry Won’t Ever Hear – COVID Killed No-one. It Was All Govt Policy

There follows analysis and graphs supporting this position. It is damning. It’s UK based, but similar analysis done in NZ would reveal similar concerns.

https://metatron.substack.com/p/the-inconvenient-and-damning-truth?publication_

What occurred on 23rd March 2020 and 8th Dec 2020 was a co-ordinated event that hit the entire country simultaneously. This was not the sudden emergence of a virus (or even the sudden mutation of a virus to become super-deadly overnight), it was something else that occurred, literally overnight, that was guaranteed to impact everyone who was susceptible to it – the frail and elderly.

The sudden withdrawal of health and social care, the sudden withdrawal of basic treatments to preventable, treatable diseases and conditions, and the mass administration of an experimental gene therapy were responsible for all the excess death in England & Wales in 2020 and early 2021.

That is and always was the most plausible explanation.

It was evident in mid 2020 when we looked at the hospital occupancy and A&E data.

It was evident in mid 2021 when we looked the correlations between jabbing and deaths and eviscerated the ONS analysis.

It was evident in 2023 when we looked at the prescription data.

And, it was evident pretty much every day in between and since, across the entire world, where reliable data is available. I alone have written over 500 articles based on separate analyses, all pointing in this direction. There must be 10s of thousands in total from all the independent “conspiracy theorists”, diligently trying to unearth the truth for nothing more than the satisfaction of doing so.

The more data that comes in, the better the quality the data and the better the quality of the analysis (all of which is done outside of public administration), takes you inexorably further towards that conclusion.

Here’s hoping the new government in NZ initiates a proper inquiry sooner rather than later.
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November 24, 2023 12:12pm
- cmm
  
  “Here’s hoping the new government in NZ initiates a proper inquiry sooner rather than later.”
  
  You can hope forever. It isn’t going to happen.
  
  PS: GET BOOSTED!
  
  5 4
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  November 24, 2023 12:38pm
- Ghost
  
  This will make you happy clan
  
  In NZ First’s agreement with National, the coalition has agreed to urgently establish a “full scale, wide ranging,
  independent inquiry”.
  
  This new inquiry would analyse lockdowns, vaccine procurement and efficacy, the social and economic impacts of the alert levels, and the justification of all pandemic regulations and decisions.
  
  The coalition also agreed to urgently “reserve against proposed amendments to WHO health
  regulations”.
  
  ACT also questioned the terms of reference for the royal commission. It has support to broaden the terms of reference for the ongoing Covid-19 Royal Commission.
  
  Article
  
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  November 24, 2023 12:45pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/historian-bruce-moon-shows-how-claire-charters-is-not-to-be-trusted/?
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November 24, 2023 1:45pm
Mrs_Right

Riots in Ireland…. This is a sign of things to come in Western Europe I think. Everyday citizens are getting fed up with crime caused by migrants.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/suspected-stabbing-in-ireland-three-children-injured-person-taken-into-custody/Q6QIT2ADQ5FQNMOS3C4ACU4CB4/
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November 24, 2023 2:03pm
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  It was curious how they made sure to say ‘not Terror related’, but the fact that people are in the street and upset about something clearly political- yes, I am pretty sure this was ‘diversity dividend’.
  
  9 0
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  November 24, 2023 2:56pm
Master Mariner

https://oilprice-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/oilprice.com/Energy/Natural-Gas/Offshore-Gas-Field-Could-Help-Gaza-Recovery.amp.html

Interesting US proclaiming its Palestinian owned.

And Egypt has found more Gas in the Nile Delta.

I have already mentioned the same with Ukrainian waters and new hydrocarbon fields discovered with an agreement with the EU .
This was the straw that broke the camels back as far as Russia was concerned along with not honouring the Minsk agreement.
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November 24, 2023 2:39pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Seems that Israel has given a 1.4B exploration licensee to BP in “Palestinian waters””
  According to Russell Brandd.
  Cant find the reference he uses for your education
  ??
  But I did see it in the last 48 hours….
  
  I know I am delusional and its just Hamas propoganda (according to the 26)
  
  So thats why there will be no 2 state solution. 🙂
  and why the UK is vetoing such a thing.
  
  3 4
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  November 24, 2023 5:52pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    And guess who has family connections too BP’s bid. ?
    UK Prime Minister.!!
    
    2 1
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    November 24, 2023 7:19pm
Swifty

Muhammad Ali riffing on race and staying in your own racial lane:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HqiWFLsgVi4

I wonder what modern race theorists would make of what he said, whether they think him right, and what they would think should a white person say those same words?
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November 24, 2023 3:00pm
Maggie Pie

A besties ‘X’

There’s still time to vote…..I’ve just cast mine.

https://twitter.com/zipitsweety/status/1727754553494503797
7 1
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November 24, 2023 3:04pm
- nathie
  
  Can people vote three times? Asking for a friend.
  
  6 0
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  November 24, 2023 3:10pm
- kevn
  
  Maggie… Surely, the leach wannabe maori. From a non twitterX’er.
  
  6 0
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  November 24, 2023 3:54pm
- Ghost
  
  None of them, their coming meltdowns will be entertaining
  
  4 0
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  November 24, 2023 5:44pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

I am seeing “DPM” quite often. Dunno what it means. Probably something my simple brain cells can not handle.
I know it is dumb for not knowing and I will kick my own arse!
4 1
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November 24, 2023 3:51pm
- nathie
  
  Short hand for “DPF for PM” …
  
  Short hand for “Distinguished PM” …
  
  Short hand for “Dignified PM” …
  
  😉
  
  (And they aren’t even “arse-kicking” answers)!
  
  2 0
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  November 24, 2023 5:27pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  D for Deputy.
  
  3 0
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  November 24, 2023 5:31pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Jesus.
  Deputy Prime Minister.
  Steve Otto is so dumb. Something is in front of the face and I can’t see it!!
  Thankyou.
  
  4 0
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  November 24, 2023 6:30pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    Sorry, but I have to agree 🙂
    
    2 2
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    November 24, 2023 8:51pm
Chris Nisbet

Hipkins reckons the new government will take us backwards.
I reckon Hipkins is facing in the wrong direction.
13 0
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November 24, 2023 5:32pm
- Ghost
  
  I had to stop watching his standup, all I could see was a mr bobblehead talking.
  
  9 0
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  November 24, 2023 5:43pm
Ghost

As we farewell the Ardern/Hipkin’s government it seems midnight oil have an appropriate song for the past 6 years. Forgotten Years
6 0
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November 24, 2023 5:42pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  You know they will be back Ghost.
  The voters are at pre-school now. Not now but Monday morning!
  
  3 1
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  November 24, 2023 6:34pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Taxpayer’s Union has a good email.
Yep, go along. DPF will probably do a post just on that.
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November 24, 2023 6:36pm
Ghost

I cannot recall any such articles when saint Cindy of the Ardern took office

Now that Christopher Luxon is to be sworn in as the actual Prime Minister, his weekly pay packet will jump to $9058.63 before tax.

That’s a healthy bump from the pre-tax $5692.44 he picked up as Leader of the Opposition.

Either pay packet is a substantial hike from the New Zealand median wage – again before tax – of $1186.40.

Article

No, when the saint took over her pay was compared To other world leaders
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November 24, 2023 6:53pm
- Swifty
  
  What Air NZ salary was he on before he quit to enter politics?
  
  The bloke has taken a massive pay cut.
  
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  November 24, 2023 7:10pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Oh Dear,
  
  Does that mean Chris Hipkins’ weekly pay packet drops by $3366.19/week.?
  
  Gosh, that’s 2.8X the average weekly salary…
  
  How will the poor man manage?
  
  7 0
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  November 24, 2023 7:21pm
  - Ghost
    
    He won’t. He’ll be John Campbell’s first interview with homeless living in their cars in wellington, eating sausage rolls out of bins.
    
    9 0
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    November 24, 2023 7:31pm
Jack5

Confusion from Woke pronouns. This headline is from Stuff:

5-year-old child hit by driver who was on their phone
6 0
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November 24, 2023 7:12pm
Ra Henare

Interesting.

I use a VPN so I can pretend to be in NZ for banking et al.

Youtube presents a totally different set of suggestions than if I just let it think I am in SE Asia.

Example. Obviously more NZ content. But much more Israeli centric/leaning items on that conflict.

Cambodia gets a more dare I say, Balanced selection with both sides of the conflict represented.

Would be interested to see if other VPN users get the same divergence. I use NordVPN(paid version)
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November 24, 2023 8:44pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Then why are you so misinformed and ignorant?
  
  1 2
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  November 24, 2023 9:21pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Now now that’s not very nice!
    
    0 0
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    November 25, 2023 6:15pm

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