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November 22, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 22 November 2023

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peterwn

Woman was discharged without conviction following historic sexual offending against a child.
“The judge said she could appreciate those feelings but she needed to apply the law, which allows for such a scenario when a conviction is found to be out of proportion to the gravity of the offending.”
I disagreed that the judge followed the law. I thought that case law on this was quite clear. For these sorts of cases it would be rare if at all that a conviction for such sexual offending would be out of proportion to the gravity of offending. Would the accused have been discharged conviction if a male rather than female?
The Crown Solicitor opposed the discharge. Hopefully it will be appealed but I will not hold my breath.
See: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crime/pr-manager-jemma-taylor-granted-discharge-without-conviction-for-sexual-abuse-of-11yo-girl/MP6RQ272JJAVHE2BRCSUBZPL7Y/

Also a guy has been banned from being a Company Director for life after a whole string of incidents and offences. To try and stave off the ban he told the High Court that he was studying law and would turn over a new leaf. Before embarking on law studies one would have hoped that he checked with the Law Society that he would be eligible for admission despite the ban and his various convictions for fraud etc. There is one guy who completed a law degree but has never been called to the bar because he just cannot keep his trap shut. So what hope has that offender got?
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November 22, 2023 8:01am
- jedmo
  
  If the one guy, is who I’m thinking of he has helped and supported people, states truths that are unpalatable in this intolerant time.
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:52am
  - David Garrett
    
    jedmo: If you are thinking of Jailhouse lawyer Arthur Taylor you’d be wrong…he decided not to try to get a law degree because he knew he would never be admitted to the bar.
    
    That said, there are many people with law degrees who have never been admitted. Having a law degree doesn’t require you to automatically apply to be admitted.
    
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    November 22, 2023 9:45am
    - jedmo
      
      No, was thinking of someone who I believe got a law degree but was denied admission to the bar due to his, admittedly outspoken, iconoclastic, views; whither diversity? Diversity for mine views but not for thine?
      
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      November 22, 2023 10:05am
    - Sideoiler
      
      Richard Lincoln springs to mind.
      
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      November 22, 2023 1:05pm
Benedict Yu

This is an unusual story.

https://youtu.be/w8LfHDcHsmI?si=gplcX–hLhEe-H-C

Sean Plunket gets trolled on social media and called a “scum bag hate mongering Zionist”.

It turns out this guy is a cardiac surgeon at Wellington Hospital. Sean phones him to have a talk about it. The guy denies it and hangs up.

It gets stranger. Sean is scheduled to go to Wellington Hospital soon to have a cardiac ablation procedure,which is quite a serious procedure. It turns out that the trolling cardiac surgeon will be performing the surgery.

Sean is now a little worried about entrusting his life to this surgeon.
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November 22, 2023 8:01am
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Do you think it’s just Sean that he thinks is a “scum bag hate mongering Zionist”, or is he not bothered about people who keep their opinions about Israel/Palestine to themselves, but who probably largely agree with Sean?
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:07am
  - G152
    
    Maybe this surgeon would be better served to return to his little spot of paradise as its evident he doesn’t appreciate being here.
    And who would now trust this person to carry out his skills knowing his bias???????
    
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    November 22, 2023 8:14am
    - David Garrett
      
      G152: Absolutely…and incidentally, a perfect illustration of my point oft made: the cult of Islam is totally incompatible with our way of life – although he is a cardiac surgeon FFS, he just can’t help himself…he was been schooled from birth in the belief that Muslims are the only true believers, and absolutely everyone else is fair game for their hate.
      
      If I was Plunket I wouldn’t have an ingrown toenail removed by this sinister Muslim clown
      
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      November 22, 2023 1:31pm
  - Matt Long
    
    I’ve been told, which doesn’t make it true, the health sector is a hot bed of anti Israel, anti Zionist people. How confident should the New Zealand Jewish community feel about being treated in our hospitals. Definitely an issue that needs airing.
    
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    November 22, 2023 8:18am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Well they’ve been called systemically racist, why not throw in systemically antisemitic.
      Its a wonder anyone survives.
      The people in the health system are a cross section of our society and are doing their best.
      
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      November 22, 2023 8:47am
      - Keith White
        
        IMA: “Its a wonder anyone survives.”
        
        Many do not. Ask people kicked off waiting lists and denied treatment because they did not do what they were told they should do.
        
        But you’ll need a psychic/medium to reach many of them.
        
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        November 22, 2023 10:44am
    - Keith White
      
      More than most, the caring / healing professions attract people who signal virtue as part of their CV. Often a feature when appropriate virtue is enacted, sometimes a bug when they want to ‘fix’ people they disagree with. 55 years after I first read William Shirer’s chapter on Nazi doctors, I got a first-front row seat on that attitude with Fauci, Bloomfield, Verrall & Co.
      
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      November 22, 2023 10:43am
      - imalwaysright
        
        I see your point Keith , they treated me like a dose of vd because I wouldn’t take their jab.
        
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        November 22, 2023 12:30pm
- artemisia
  
  Health NZ (prev Te Whatu Ora) needs to investigate this, stat.
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:09am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    If true should be grounds for deportation. These clowns need to be shown that they leave their sectarian bs back in the old country or bugger off back to it. One or two high profile cases would be enough before the message gets through.
    
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    November 22, 2023 8:51am
  - kowtow
    
    if it were a stale , pale , male he’d also likely be ‘debanked”.
    
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    November 22, 2023 8:58am
  - Keith White
    
    Artemisia, I admire your optimism! and upvote accordingly. I doubt the chance it’ll take place though.
    
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    November 22, 2023 10:45am
- Maggie Pie
  
  My intitial thort when Sean first tweeted about this was it’s a wind-up.
  Certainly appears to have brought a few racists out of the woodwork….
  
  https://twitter.com/ld_clarke/status/1726552993859064050
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:20am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Well, Plunket is a scumbag. On the upside for him though, the surgeon has probably operated on lots of scumbags.
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:23am
  - hmmokrightitis
    
    Because you (without plausible reason) think so? Or is it because he doesn’t mind holding people to account, which lefty scumbags don’t seem to like?
    
    Stopped beating your husband yet milky?
    
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    November 22, 2023 8:34am
  - bartybart
    
    go and bully some labour kids mike
    
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    November 22, 2023 8:52am
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Surely only Mike’s sock puppet accounts uptick such inane drive-by shit posts.
    This is a dumber than usual comment.
    
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    November 22, 2023 1:19pm
- jedmo
  
  To my mind this is a story with serious ramifications about the state of health care in NZ. But, not aware of any MSM reporting about it. One hopes that Plunket has stumbled across, or flushed out by his courageous truth broadcasting; the one bad apple in NZ’s health system. But what if this is a hidden systemic problem? And can we have any faith, in NZ medical council, to address this?
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:40am
  - Keith White
    
    The Medical Council will not investigate or address excess deaths in the last 2 years so seems vanishingly unlikely they will address this rogue doctor, as long as he got the jab they demanded (or maybe he got a waiver…).
    
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    November 22, 2023 10:47am
    - rouppe
      
      99% he’d have the waiver
      
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      November 22, 2023 12:21pm
- slightlyrighty
  
  Do you think the surgeon might be surprised to find Plunkett actually has a heart??
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:54am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  He will be awake but sedated through the procedure. Similar sedation to colonoscopy.
  Might even be able to watch on TV.
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:02am
- Souvlaki
  
  Clearly this should be before the NZMC STAT!!
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:12am
- Close Hen Counters
  
  I hope he gets the right care he needs – generally cardiologists with an interest in electro physiological studies do ablations (physicians) rather than surgeons
  
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  November 22, 2023 12:48pm
Scott

I just saw the deputy mayor of Jerusalem on MSNBC with Andrea Mitchell. Mitchell asked why don’t Israel use smart bombs, as if it was possible to avoid all civilian casualties?

The deputy mayor spoke of the restraint of Israel. They have the power to flatten Gaza and yet they are sending their soldiers door to door and taking many casualties doing so.

That’s a good point. The USA in World War 2 figured they would lose a million GI’s invading Japan so instead they dropped the atomic bomb. Israel could flatten Gaza and save their soldiers any casualties at all. Instead they opened up a southern escape route for civilians and are going door to door in bitter house to house fighting.

Israel wants to minimise civilian casualties. Hamas does not.
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November 22, 2023 8:02am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Israel wants to pretend to minimise civilian casualties.
  FIFY
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:25am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Oh great and wise milkenmild do tell us what they are supposed to do instead. Just leave those nice men from the Hamas alone? Waste 1000’s of young Israeli lives chasing Hamas fighters on foot through their prepared defenses in Gaza?
    
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    November 22, 2023 8:37am
    - Cassandra
      
      Milky doesn’t do solutions, just throws the barbs. Israel has been very restrained, probably more because of public opinion than anything else but they have never committed major atrocities, unlike the Arabs.
      
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      November 22, 2023 8:51am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Mike is trolling and he knows it. Israel is doing no such thing.
      
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      November 22, 2023 9:09am
      - Tom Hunter
        
        True. Even the mods have dumped his comments on some threads with [obvious trolling] comment.
        
        And yet all you guys constantly rise to the bait, including downclicks. No wonder he’s entertained.
        
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        November 22, 2023 9:34am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @Tom,
        ClanMcleod says the downticks show you are over the mark!
        
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        November 22, 2023 10:46am
      - Cassandra
        
        The answer is to ignore him of course but somehow that doesn’t seem possible. He spoils it by saying something sensible every so often. Once a month or so.
        
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        November 22, 2023 10:51am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Where as Hamas wants to promote civilian casualties in their perverse propaganda campaign. You really are a completely morally bankrupt milky.
    
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    November 22, 2023 8:55am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Ahhh Mike. Why are the Left so in love with Hamas? Why is it so wrong for the IDF to root out a terrorist group that wants to destroy all Jews?
    
    [Mod – don’t make it personal]
    
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    November 22, 2023 11:09am
- cmm
  
  In all previous conflicts Hamas has massively inflated casualty numbers for PR hugz from people like mma.
  
  The PR campaign this time is far higher than ever before. Of course they are lying.
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:33am
- Ra Henare
  
  Scott
  / The USA in World War 2 figured they would lose a million GI’s invading Japan so instead they dropped the atomic bomb. /
  
  Would be interested in your source for such a statement ie a million GIs.
  
  Couple of points.
  
  One of the motivations for the Atomic Bomb on Hiroshima in 1945 was to end the war quickly to prevent the Soviets entering the Pacific conflict.
  (They were not at war with Japan).
  
  Checkout the Potsdam agreement/Yalta Conference which agreed the Soviets would be involved 3 months after Germanys surrender. ie 9th August 1945. Hiroshima was dropped on the 6th. Nagasaki on the 9th.
  Japan surrendered on the 10th after a million soviets invaded Japan’s territory in China on the 9th.
  
  Israel flattening Gaza(more than they have) would be seen as an outrageous war crime by the International community and have severe repercussions to Israel Commerce and independence.
  
  As with all things actions have consequences.
  
  As Hamas has found out and as Israel would find out if they obliterated Gaza.
  
  But then that would not resonate with the bloodlust of many(on KB as well via downticks) to kill all the Palestinians.
  AKA Genocide.
  
  Thanks again to KBers typing mis information which gives me an opportunity to research some more.
  
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  November 22, 2023 4:29pm
  - Scott
    
    Ra Henare – you are obviously a clever fellow. However the Americans did want to avoid huge casualties which would have happened if they had invaded Japan. As to a million GI’s, who knows exactly how many would have been lost to a fanatical defence?
    
    Your defence of Hamas is more problematic. Hamas are the Nazis of today. Hamas was elected by the people of Gaza and are still supported by the people of Gaza. They are reaping what they have sown. You might want to have a rethink?
    
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    November 22, 2023 6:15pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      Scott. I am not wedded to any side in a conflict.
      ie your assertion that I defend Hamas.
      
      Unfortunately you are following the KB Party line. I suggest you do some more reading/Learning.
      
      Try this from an Israeli Political Analysist who has lots of Creds.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6QV5p3q_Z8
      
      Am more interested in the bigger picture as to why events turn out the way they do.
      Just because I dont follow the KB party line does not mean I am “”for”” the other side.
      
      I got the same BS response when I commented on the UKraine/Russia conflict.
      ie I was a Putin Stooge etc etc
      
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      November 22, 2023 11:25pm
artemisia

Housing NZ (prev Kainga Ora?) is reporting that 1,566 of its tenant households are paying market rent. Taxpayer subsidy not required. There are even more market renters in social housing managed by Community Housing Providers.

National prioritised market renters moving out after tenancy reviews were formalised in 2014, and hundreds moved out of social housing due to tenancy reviews, most into the private sector. I think usually with some sweetener from taxpayers. Some unauthorised occupiers were found, commonly known as squatters.

Well overdue for a reset!
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November 22, 2023 8:04am
- Benedict Yu
  
  A worse problem is single people occupying two, three, and even four bedroom houses who cannot be transferred to a one bedroom flat.
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:42am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    This is a critical issue Ben.
    
    And its been a huge issue since the late nineties.
    
    The scenario most encountered is an old couple or widow/widower living in an old school 3 bedroom State house. They have lived their for decades and raised a family at that address. Kids grown up and gone…. but the couple/single person will not move from ‘their’ house.
    
    It should be a contracted in a state house lease that once the need for a family home is over that the tenants have to accept a small property and make the family home available for a young family
    
    The sense of entitlement is very strong – you will occasionally see families demanding a tenancy of ‘their’ house when the parent/s die and the state house is vacant… pops up in the media every now and then
    
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    November 22, 2023 11:13am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Maybe there should be a mandatory shift every 10 years, just to prevent that ownership thing occurring.
      
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      November 22, 2023 7:30pm
rjay

Another Easter Egg for the incoming government. Tinetti knew in June there was no money to pay ECE teachers. Forgot to tell the public – or her boss? Presumably all those campaign photo opportunities wouldn’t have been so friendly.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/11/ece-teachers-really-angry-and-very-frustrated-after-pay-parity-further-out-of-reach-after-cost-blowout.html
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November 22, 2023 8:08am
- Paulus
  
  Whaddya mean it was only $253 million that was overlooked by Tinetti.
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:25am
  - Keith White
    
    To be fair, that’s a rounding error for the Robber Minister.
    
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    November 22, 2023 10:49am
- Burtland
  
  ECE teachers have been duped by the Unions and Labour
  – seems to have been plenty of money to implement new neo marxist curriculums
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:41am
  - RoboRob
    
    Perhaps the teachers should reduce the amt they pay the union by a proportional amount. Sounds fair considering the total failure by the unions in this negotiation.
    
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    November 22, 2023 9:18am
- rockape
  
  That’s why Little didn’t want to give the nurses back pay. They were due it for Pay Equity, MECCA agreement and underpaid leave. NZNO had to take them to court and Mrs just got her back pay for pay equity. She works part time 7 shifts a fortnight, it still came to over $15,000. MECCA next week and leave back pay before Christmas.
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:41am
- RoboRob
  
  What, you mean Labour agreed to something it knew it couldn’t afford knowing full well that they most likely wouldn’t be the government that had to deal with the issue. Say it aint so.
  Note the lack of union attack against Labour, its all about forcing National to deal with the mess.
  Likely this is the tip of the iceberg.
  
  My Wife is a Kindergarton ECE teacher. WTF does ’Early childhood teachers already knew the government could not afford pay parity, but Educational Institute national secretary Stephanie Mills said its members would not be happy to learn about the ministry’s miscalculation.’, mean? Is the union telling us they settled a pay negotiation knowing that the government couldn’t and wouldn’t pay?
  
  Wouldn’t the solution to this be one of three things
  1) Increased funding. Unlikely and un affordable
  2) Remove parity for ECE teachers.
  3) Reduce the pay agreements with Primary & Secondary teachers so that parity remains and pay is affordable.
  
  #2 is likely the one the unions and government will go for. #3 is probably what they should do but also highly unlikely. Remember ECE was settled first, then primary and Secondary. Secondary really nailed the government.
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:16am
  - Ian Boag
    
    I’m probably a bit naive here. ECE is predominantly a private business, kindies excepted. All ECE users pay for access.
    
    Why is the gummint involved here?
    
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    November 22, 2023 10:55am
    - JimBobJoe
      
      sighhhh…. why do you and Mike troll like this Ian? You know fully well a large chunk of ECE is funded directly by government…… and the change in the funding model over the last 2 years is now driving numerous small ECE centres out of business as the government has agreed a pay scale but doesnt fund it….
      
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      November 22, 2023 11:16am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  A miscalculation? When will MPs have to pass a basic math test before messing with OUR money? Math is not hard, oh wait, it must be hard for the Tinettis of this World. Then she gets to blame others, not herself.
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:18am
KH

“………He explains that for Americans, wars “must include two clear sides, one good and one pure evil, with one preferably an underdog, daily combat footage which can be obtained without too much danger, and a football game-like progression across a map that is easy to follow. It should not be boring.”

“Ukraine was such a conflict and enjoyed almost a full two-year run. Nevertheless, the fickle attention of America shifted to the Middle East just as things started to look more and more like static WWI trench warfare in Ukraine. It was a hard act to follow, but something always follows nonetheless…….”
https://www.southfront.press/the-end-will-be-sad-for-kiev-us-media-outlines-how-the-conflict-in-ukraine-will-end/
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November 22, 2023 8:12am
- Grunter
  
  Ukraine is in the horrible mess that a lot of us predicted some time ago. 500,000 dead including a huge number of civilians. Maybe 1m permanently injured. Hundreds of Billions $’s wasted. No more ammo/weapons coming. The country is in total ruins. Germany cut off from Russian gas and economically crumbling by the week……
  
  And now the US is suggesting Zelensky needs to go to the negotiation table where he will get his arse handed to him by Putin.
  
  The US & NATO could not have done a worse job. Lets hope the evil showman Zelensky gets what he deserves.
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:36am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Grunter,
    
    If the aim was to rob the populations of the EU and USA then you could say it was a great success.
    The hundreds of billions went somewhere.
    You are right about Zelensky.
    He will soon be sacrificed.
    The destruction of Ukraine and the population is a business transaction.
    
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    November 22, 2023 10:27am
  - NothingLeft
    
    You get those numbers and talking points from Pravda? Might be 500k dead if you include both ~100-150k Ukrainians (about 0.5%, or one tenth of what Germany lost in WW2) and 2-3x that many Russians. Moscow leadership give no shits about disposable poor ethnic minorities from far reaches of federation and have emptied their prisons to feed the meat grinder, so skimp on basics like training, clothing, food and medical treatment.
    
    Russia’s military is running on dregs of cold war equipment, (all the modern/good stuff’ and professional soldiers have been destroyed) and meat-wave assaults by barely trained soldiers threatened with execution if they don’t go over the top, but even with numerical troop superiority they are not making any significant progress against Ukraine. It’s deadlocked. And mud season + winter will mostly lock things in place for next 3-4 months.
    
    And all the time Ukraine continues to increase the quality of its long range and drone weapons systems – latest innovation being multiple FPV hunter killers dropped by larger carrier/control relay drones to increase their range and durability against jamming.
    
    Israel conflict has reduced ammunition and weapons supply to ukraine from US, but Gazan conflict will likely be over in a few weeks to months, and Europe are rapidly increasing support – they know that if Russia were to take Ukraine it would just see their population and resources compelled to fight Europe (as the annexed populations of Ukraine have been forced to fight their countrymen).
    
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    November 22, 2023 10:35am
    - KH
      
      Nothingleft: Both sides do outrageous propaganda. Being swayed so completely by one is unwise.
      
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      November 22, 2023 11:05am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Oh you are hilarious.
        You link to Southfront which is Russian Propaganda.
        
        ‘SouthFront (sometimes written South Front) is a multilingual website registered in Russia and based in Crimea.[1] It has been accused by multiple sources of being an outlet for disinformation and propaganda under the control of the Russian government. For this reason, it has been sanctioned by the US Treasury and banned by social media platforms.’
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SouthFront
        
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        November 22, 2023 12:26pm
      - mawm
        
        AOR – and you quote Wikipedia! Did you know the CIA has editing rights for Wikipedia?
        
        Try these:-https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ukraine/redefining-success-ukraine
        https://www.wsj.com/world/russia/its-time-to-end-magical-thinking-about-russias-defeat-f6d0b8de?mod=Searchresults_pos1&page=1
        “Russia set for $75 billion surplus” –
        Bloomberg
        “Zelensky must be honest about the state of the war” The Spectator – 18 November.
        
        There are many more quietly being printed in the MSM in preparation for ~~NATO’s~~ ~~US’s~~ Ukraine’s defeat at the hand of the backward, poorly motivated, poorly armed, conscripted Russian convicts. //s
        
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        November 22, 2023 3:21pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        mawm
        ‘Did you know the CIA has editing rights for Wikipedia?’
        Prove it
        And prove what Wiki says about Southfront is wrong
        Wiki is very very left too
        So them saying this is significant.
        
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        November 22, 2023 9:54pm
      - Ghost
        
        mawm, anyone can edit wiki. But talking of cia, you’re more likely to find their stuff on msm. I’m sure you would know that right? You have seen the reporters who have done stories on the cia infiltrating the msm right?
        
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        November 22, 2023 10:02pm
    - Grunter
      
      Time will tell if you and the MSM are correct.
      
      I suspect you (and the MSM) are, once again, the opposite of the real truth.
      
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      November 22, 2023 11:28am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Do you think that you could post Citations to back up your comments?
        Would be interested to see your sources.
        
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        November 22, 2023 12:28pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        We’ll just have to see won’t we? I note that all the now-proven wrong rhetoric emanating from “Ukraine War Realists” like the perennially wrong Col Douglas MacGregor and his fellow-travellers about how the superior Russian Military were going to steam roll Ukraine any time they wanted have turned out to be complete horse-shit. And opposition to war in Russia is growing.
        
        Russia has instead been held off for two years by mostly obsolete and small-quantities of hand-me-down offensive weaponry scraps from western military provided to a poor country a quarter their population.
        
        If the west gets serious about helping Ukraine win; eg 10 million artillery shells of 10’s of thousands of large short range bombs and means to deliver them then Russian military will be squashed like a bug.
        
        Long touted Russian conventional military power has proved to be very much Potemkinesque.
        
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        November 22, 2023 7:28pm
  - G152
    
    Noticed where Russia is demanding the Israeli have a ceasefire.
    Pity the Russians dont afford the same for the Ukranians
    
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    November 22, 2023 10:51am
    - kowtow
      
      China hosting some sort of conference with Muslim nations .
      
      Don’t suppose the visitors brought up the million Wegur internees.
      
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      November 22, 2023 12:35pm
    - mawm
      
      Russia had a ceasefire agreement initialed by them and Ukraine that Boris Johnson rushed over to Ukraine to scupper. Anything now would be much harder terms for Ukraine – because they are being so badly destroyed by Russia.
      
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      November 22, 2023 3:26pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      G152. I think you will find that the Russians have been looking for a peaceful settlement since March 2022 (thwarted by the USA)
      
      and Zelensky passing a law that made it illegal for Ukraine to negotiate with Russia.
      
      So I suspect the shoe is on the other foot. ie The delusional Zelensky not allowing a ceasefire.
      
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      November 22, 2023 4:35pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        The Russians can pull back to their internationally recognised borders any time they want, Ra.
        
        That should secure a ceasefire.
        
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        November 22, 2023 7:35pm
- KH
  
  All on Red. Most realise both sides propaganda is outrageous. Except some like you believe one side. That is truely funny.
  
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  November 22, 2023 3:22pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    KH
    I have taken no sides
    All I’m doing is pointing out your source is a Russian propaganda website
    hahahaha
    You fell for a Russian propaganda!
    #Fool
    
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    November 22, 2023 9:48pm
pdm

The days conundrum.

Why would Israel swap 50 Hostages for 150 Hamas Terrorist prisoners who may kill 1,000 Israeli civilians in the next Hamas attack.

Am I on the right track?
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November 22, 2023 8:18am
- Wayne Mapp
  
  The idea is that Israel will be sufficiently prepared for the next attack.
  How else is Israel going to get the hostages back? They have to do some sort of deal.
  Looking forward, they are going to have to find a more viable long term solution. Essentially a two state solution based on the 1967 borders. I know some here mock that idea, but what is the alternative?
  Israel in occupation for the next hundred years? That is not going to work, as the latest war shows, unless of course Israel decides it can do these kinds of wars every 10 or 20 years. However, the pressure/patience from Western governments will increase for Israel and the Palestinians to find a long term solution.
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:34am
  - hmmokrightitis
    
    We don’t mock the idea Wayne – hamas does. They have made it very clear that their goal is the extinction of the Jewish race.
    
    Why is that so hard for some people to figure out?
    
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    November 22, 2023 8:38am
  - mandk
    
    “Essentially a two state solution based on the 1967 borders. ”
    
    Israel offered to withdraw to the pre-67 borders, but the Palestinians turned down the offer.
    
    As Abba Eban once said: “The Palestinians never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity”.
    
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    November 22, 2023 8:49am
    - RoboRob
      
      Palestinians have turned down every offer of two states. Pre 67 might sound good but what they really want, as per their charter, is the total ‘removal’ of all Israelis. In the case of Hamas the removal preference is through Jihad.
      
      This is the problem people cant seem to get through their heads. How do you negotiate a settlement with people who want to annihilate you.
      
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      November 22, 2023 9:23am
      - Ra Henare
        
        I repeat adneusium.
        
        Peace will only occur when the political leadership changes. Hamas is not Palestine, Lukud is not Israel.
        
        Look to Ireland as an example of a conflict that apparently would never have a solution.
        Then the leadership on both sides changed.
        
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        November 22, 2023 4:40pm
      - kowtow
        
        RH
        
        Leadership of the Provos were the ones who were involved in the “peace deal” .
        
        And there’s still terrorism there and very very divided society .
        
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        November 22, 2023 6:12pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        Robo, you have bought in to the Propaganda that Palestine declined the 2 state solution.
        
        The facts are quite different.
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6QV5p3q_Z8
        
        If you are short on tiem skip to 54 minutes.. ish
        
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        November 22, 2023 11:29pm
  - Cassandra
    
    Got to be two sides to a deal, Wayne. Never missing an opportunity to miss an opportunity is not an Israeli trait.
    
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    November 22, 2023 8:54am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    If the new Palestinian State is run by tyrants intent on the destruction of Israel, it will be back to square one.
    
    Also, it is not realistic that the 700,000 Jews in the West Bank are going to leave, or they Israel will give up Jerusalem as its capital.
    
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    November 22, 2023 8:54am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      The Israeli hardliners have done their damnedest to undermine the more moderate Palestinian Authority (you know – the ones peace deals have been done with) and support Hamas and Hezbollah. They would prefer a war that make a two-state solution impossible so that they can annex the West Bank and rid Eretz Israel of all Arabs.
      
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      November 22, 2023 9:13am
      - RoboRob
        
        Can you point to how hardline Israelis are supporting Hamas and Hezbollah as you claim or are you just making shit up now?
        
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        November 22, 2023 9:25am
      - alex Masterley
        
        Moderate Palestinian Authority? Snort? you jest.
        
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        November 22, 2023 9:36am
  - Dudley Quaffquaff
    
    There’s already been a two-state solution. Well over half of the former British mandate territory was allocated to the Arab population and became known as Jordan. History after that is a repeating pattern of Palestinians being offered land for peace and refusing it. More recently Gaza was given every opportunity, and vast resources, with which to develop itself into a state. They don’t want that. They want to obliterate Israel. Read the Hamas charter and remember the saying, when somebody tells you who they are, believe them.
    
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    November 22, 2023 9:06am
    - Ra Henare
      
      I do suggest you get a better understanding of the history and background. Your assertion is at odds with the facts
      
      Check out this unemotional response from an Israeli Political Analysist who was involved in various peace negotiations
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6QV5p3q_Z8
      
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      November 22, 2023 11:40pm
  - Burtland
    
    thought hamas were an Iranian proxie – good luck with a two state solution
    
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    November 22, 2023 9:13am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    “unless of course Israel decides it can do these kinds of wars every 10 or 20 years.”
    Really? 6.30am on Oct 7th Hamas sent 2200 rockets to Israel, and you think Israel starts the conflict?
    You are deluded Wayne Mapp.
    
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    November 22, 2023 9:28am
    - Matt Long
      
      Once there are two states and the Islamist one has full control to ship in serious weapons from Iran and Syria, the Islamists will definitely opt for peace and absolutely not try to annihilate Israel, despite the fact they regularly state that is their aim.
      When they say they will destroy Israel and kill or enslave all the Jews, they really mean form a utopian peaceful paradise, you’ve just got to understand the cultural context.
      
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      November 22, 2023 10:56am
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      Steve,
      You missed my point. It is not about who starts the wars, it is the fact they keep happening.
      The west, who basically support Israel, will want to see progress toward a two state solution. Otherwise the wars will keep happening. Now it might be that Israel is prepared for that. That Israel makes an assessment that it can withstand Hamas style attacks and can successfully respond.
      However, if they don’t try and make headway on a two state solution then the support will reduce. In particular Israel will need to stop the increasing level of settlements on the West bank. The major settlements are around Jerusalem and these would be incorporated into Israel, but the others are an impediment to negotiations.
      
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      November 22, 2023 2:03pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Uptick Wayne.
        But it must be that Hamas start these wars every 10 to 20 years?
        All you did was talk shit, that Israel can respond. So that sorts everything right?
        Hamas will never want a two state solution. Kill Israel and kill Jews is all they know ffs!
        As I said, stop talking shit and defending terrorists!
        
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        November 22, 2023 5:13pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      SO.
      Nothing “started” on the 7th October. It was a continuing sequence of events that started last century before you were born.
      
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      November 22, 2023 4:55pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Before many were born Ra.
        1952 for me.
        
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        November 22, 2023 5:15pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  They swapped over 1000 prisoners, for 1 soldier.
  
  https://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/17/world/meast/israel-prisoner-swap-explainer/index.html
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:42am
  - Matt Long
    
    Yep, Israel will swap any number of minor terrorists to get hostages back.
    I imagine they know for every minor terrorist they have in custody there are a hundred on the loose in Gaza and the West Bank who can take their place.
    So releasing thousands of minor terrorists to secure the release of several hundred hostages is a no brainer.
    
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    November 22, 2023 11:05am
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    That is not the ratio on the table today, so not of relevance.
    That article is over 10 years old.
    The offer is seeking children/civilians first in this case.
    Both Qatar and US based diplomacy initiatives are suggesting an agreement is close, and more like 3 to 1.
    50 for 150 was oft stated recently.
    
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    November 22, 2023 1:31pm
- Stuart
  
  Stick trackers on them and blow them up later?
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:59am
  - Matt Long
    
    Covid Vax them.
    
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    November 22, 2023 11:05am
- artemisia
  
  Released prisoners could be nano tracked but at the least their faces are well known and trackable.
  
  If some hostages are released in exchange, what about the others? Are they still alive and in good condition. Common sense says no.
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:44am
  - NothingLeft
    
    “nano-tracked” Reality is not like movies. If you release people you can’t find them later. Radio transmitters are large, need big batteries, are easily located through scanning from obvious insertion points, and don’t work well through skin.
    
    Israel might be able to do something like implant tiny ~1mm pellets of Ricin with a coating that breaks down after a certain amount of time to kill prisoners in a few weeks or months, or a variety of tiny doses of radioactives, carcinogens, or pathogens to produce cancers or other deaths over longer term. But that would spell an end to any future possibility of prisoner swapping.
    
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    November 22, 2023 10:50am
- rouppe
  
  I agree. It’s an unequal swap also because it’s 150 Hamas fighting age male prisoners for 50 women and children hostages.
  
  This just lets Hamas drag out the hostage situation. All hostages renewed, or a Tomahawk into the house of a senior minister. Repeat.
  
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  November 22, 2023 12:31pm
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Mossad needs to recall Munich, and get some of the Hamas leaders who are living on public welfare in the UK.
    The British should turn a blind eye – or better yet if I was running a country, secretly invite Mossad in to clean up some of the rubbish which Western nations have made the mistake of picking up.
    
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    November 22, 2023 1:34pm
- RichardF
  
  Israel should exchange all Palestinian prisoners for the Israeli hostages. Then hunt every last one of them down and kill them.
  
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  November 22, 2023 3:51pm
cmm

Yesterday FE Smith raised a few points about the number of criminal charges and the fact that there are insufficient defence lawyers for the courts to function properly.

Looking at the stats, 43% of finalised charges (I assume that means charges that make it to court) are for traffic offences.

That suggests to me that either:
* The bar for taking traffic offences to court should be lifted. ie. use more fines.
* There is a need for more streamlined “traffic courts” etc which can handle the bulk of these cases faster than what is done now.

Some US states have traffic courts which can handle most cases in a few minutes, placing a minimal burden on both courts and defence lawyers.

The public really is not too worried about traffic offences (except the most serious cases like serious drink driving). Focus on clearing the real problems (assault, etc).

https://www.justice.govt.nz/assets/Documents/Publications/0arjkrm_Trends-for-people-with-finalised-charges-in-court_jun2023_v1.0.pdf
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November 22, 2023 8:22am
- cmm
  
  The other interesting stat is that there are only around 63,000 finalised charges a year.
  
  NZ has around 10,000 cops so they average in making one finalised charge every two months.
  
  I guess learning poi-waving and the latest waiata keeps them pretty busy.
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:29am
  - Keith White
    
    Cahill is one of the more effective police-propagandists in recent times. That’s not good for the public who are victimized by crims, but excellent for union dues and his job security.
    
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    November 22, 2023 10:52am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I think a lot of the charges come from accidents.
  A few years back I came across a Demio in the middle of the road. I drove my Prado around it. Right then the driver decided to take off – without looking.
  Bang! her car careered of down the road, she hit the wrong pedal (there are only 2)
  I get an infringement fine for “Unsafe overtaking maneuver.” I took it to Court and won, even though she took an oath on the Bible and lied through her teeth.
  
  So yeah, the Courts are overloaded with shit like this, but I was not going to take it. Even the Cop left the Court when my name was called!
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:40am
Inandout

I watched a video on Vancouver’s experience with decriminalising hard drugs where two guys walk around the streets where addicts are ‘nodding’. The physical effects of being permanently bent over of course are often irreversible. It is sad sight to behold and points to the complete failure of having a free for all on drug use where there are no strict controls and backups. Justin Trudeau I understand is PM of Canada.
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November 22, 2023 8:26am
- Blog-aholic
  
  What sort of government does that? I have seen the same video and there has to be an answer why a government would create anarchic drug chaos? Why? What is the end game? They have literally created an untenable situation for which they have no backstop. Again why?
  There is something rotten in the Canadian Government if they think this is somehow both OK and or acceptable.
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:02am
- Simon
  
  “a free for all on drug use where there are no strict controls and backups. ”
  
  lol. People on kiwi blog should be better informed that the general population about the left. Not always the case.
  
  “The Canadian government is preparing to legalise euthanasia for drug-addicts as early as next year,
  
  In March 2024, Canada’s laws around eligibility for the Medical Assistance in Dying (MAiD) programme are due to shift, allowing patients with mental problems and drug addictions to seek an assisted suicide. A parliamentary committee is due to examine the expansion in the next few months.”
  
  https://care.org.uk/news/2023/10/canada-considering-euthanasia-for-drug-addicts
  
  Canada is a hyper industrial welfare post-west state. Its National / Labo promise for NZ.
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:19am
- Grunter
  
  After a century of experimentation with prohibition, solutions to the problems of drug abuse still elude us. There is no perfect solution to addictive substances that can kill you – apart from taking the personal responsibility to avoid them.
  
  The Canadian solution of a ‘free-for-all on drugs’ whilst at the same time implementing State control and interference on almost all other parts of society is most likely the worst combination of of policy settings.
  
  The ultimate solution (IMO) is to free up all parts of society first (education, health, etc) and make the supply of drugs that can knowingly kill your customer a murder crime. Only then could you look to get rid of illicit drug prohibition.
  
  NZ is more likely to follow the Candian disaster, unfortunately.
  
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  November 22, 2023 11:10am
ClanMcleod

The credibility of the January 6th Committee is now totally shredded after the dumping of 40,000 hours of Capitol Police security video footage.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/cheney-kinzinger-and-sham-j6-committee-under-fire-after-friday-footage-dump-gop-senator?utm_source=

Republican Senator Mike Lee tweeted:

Why didn’t Liz Cheney and Adam Kizinger ever refer to any of these tapes?

Maybe they never looked for them.

Maybe they never even questioned their own narrative.

Maybe they were just too busy selectively leaking the text messages of Republicans they wanted to defeat.

Liz Cheney responded by reposting the same footage that had been selectively used to create the impression of a ‘violent insurrection’.

Lee retorted:

Liz, we’ve seen footage like that a million times.

You made sure we saw that—and nothing else.

It’s the other stuff—what you deliberately hid from us—that we find so upsetting.

Nice try.

P.S. How many of these guys are feds? (As if you’d ever tell us).

The whole ‘insurrection’ narrative is now clearly exposed as a complete sham. No surprises whatsoever.
Everything is about narrative control these days, it’s hard to stay in touch with reality at times.
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November 22, 2023 8:33am
- Simon
  
  “Early in life I have noticed that no event is ever correctly reported in a newspaper, but in Spain, for the first time, I saw newspaper reports which did not bear any relation to the facts, not even the relationship which is implied in an ordinary lie. I saw great battles reported where there had been no fighting, and complete silence where hundreds of men had been killed. I saw troops who had fought bravely denounced as cowards and traitors, and others who had never seen a shot fired hailed as heroes of imaginary victories; and I saw newspapers in London retailing these lies and eager intellectuals building emotional superstructures over events that never happened. I saw, in fact, history being written not in terms of what happened but of what ought to have happened according to various ‘party lines.’”
  
  -George Orwell, Homage to Catalonia
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:21am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Simon – narrative control, going on since forever.
    
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    November 22, 2023 10:36am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Thanks for that Simon.
    
    It is said truth is the first casualty of war.
    
    I would say they have gone much further and declared truth the only real enemy.
    
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    November 22, 2023 10:42am
  - Keith White
    
    Michael Crichton had the same view before his untimely death; (I quote him at length:)
    
    “Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray’s case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the “wet streets cause rain” stories. Paper’s full of them.
    
    In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story, and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about Palestine than the baloney you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know.
    
    That is the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect. I’d point out it does not operate in other arenas of life. In ordinary life, if somebody consistently exaggerates or lies to you, you soon discount everything they say. In court, there is the legal doctrine of falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus, which means untruthful in one part, untruthful in all. But when it comes to the media, we believe against evidence that it is probably worth our time to read other parts of the paper. When, in fact, it almost certainly isn’t. The only possible explanation for our behavior is amnesia.”
    
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    November 22, 2023 10:54am
  - Nickc2
    
    It all sounds like Maorification to me eh?
    
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    November 22, 2023 12:18pm
kevn

rjay… I wonder if ‘The Books’ have been fully opened yet?
There will be all sorts of hidden issues.
We just know.
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November 22, 2023 8:33am
- pdm
  
  My understanding is they cannot/will not be opened until after the New Government has been sworn in.
  
  Robbo will be ensconsed in a pie shop in the Chathams at the time. No phone or internet service and he will re emerge in February although it has not been confirmed which year that will be.
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:50am
- Benedict Yu
  
  What do you mean by the books? The pre election fiscal update was issued before the election. The Treasury will update that shortly before Christmas with its “half year” fiscal update. I doubt that it will change much.
  
  In 1990, the outgoing Labour Government hid the extent of the fiscal crisis. As a result Ruth Richardson introduced the Fiscal Responsibility Act so that could never happen again.
  
  I would be astounded if there is some hidden fiscal ticking bomb that was hidden by the outgoing government. What will be available to the new Finance Minister is the Treasury advice about what the government should do about government spending.
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:17am
  - Simon
    
    Off balance sheet liabilities. That is shit Labo signed the govt up to, legally binding, that will unfold over years not recorded in the books.
    
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    November 22, 2023 9:24am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Can you give an example? All non-Crown liabilities appear in the Financial Statements of the Crown Entities. Kainga Ora was a big one, but its borrowing power was revoked in 2022. ACC and NZTA positions are all known. The Paris Accord liabilities are all reported.
      
      My point is that since the 1990 election, there has never been a ‘fiscal time bomb’ unearthed by an incoming government. Yes, Michael Cullen declared in 2008 ‘I spent the lot’ but that was clear from the PREFU before the 2008 election.
      
      So, yes, the Treasury may advise the incoming government that more serious corrective actions need to be taken, but the fiscal position is known.
      
      What could happen, is that Treasury changes its forecasts in the December Economic and Fiscal Update in that they are much more pessimistic than those published in the Pre-Election Economic and Fiscal Update. However with a gap of only 10 weeks between the two forecasts that seems unlikely, but possible.
      
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      November 22, 2023 10:00am
      - RoboRob
        
        The ECE pay deal might be an example. They promissed a pay increase of X per year but budgetted x – $280m. The Prefu shows the budgetted spend NOT the actual future funding required to meet the promise.
        
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        November 22, 2023 10:34am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        The ECE pay is included as a ‘specific fiscal risk’ – labelled as “Early Learning Action Plan ”
        
        “The estimated cost of the ELAP in the forecast period is approximately $1.2 billion. This estimated cost relates to actions that are indicated in the ELAP as likely to begin within the forecast period, such as improving adult-to-child ratios. There is a risk that these costs may not be met within the existing provision in the fiscal forecasts. The estimated costings of this risk have changed since the Budget Update.
        
        https://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/efu/pre-election-economic-and-fiscal-update-2023
        
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        November 22, 2023 1:08pm
      - rouppe
        
        Just heard on ZB that the ece pay parity costs were not included in the prefu.
        
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        November 22, 2023 6:02pm
  - wsk12345
    
    Oh Benedict! How old are you? Without being rude, I find your comment just incredibly naive, esp coming from a guy who is clearly intelligent and up to date with what goes on in the world.
    
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    November 22, 2023 9:46am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      My comment is highly informed. There has never been a “fiscal ticking bomb” revealed to an incoming Government since 1990. See my comment above re Michael Cullen in 2008.
      
      I would hardly post such a comment if I was just making shit up.
      
      The only possibility of bad news is if the December Fiscal Update forecasts deteriorate badly. Yes that is plausible but unlikely.
      
      Otherwise I stand by my statement that all liabilities of the Crown and Crown Entities are now known. If you want me to change my mind, you will need to provide evidence rather than name calling.
      
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      November 22, 2023 10:05am
      - RoboRob
        
        Otherwise I stand by my statement that all liabilities of the Crown and Crown Entities are now known. If you want me to change my mind, you will need to provide evidence rather than name calling.
        
        My example above where future pay increases (ECE in this case) are promised (contractually) but the government didnt bother to allocate funds for them. So not shown in the Prefu. I suspect the same will be true for Health also.
        
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        November 22, 2023 10:37am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “My example above where future pay increases (ECE in this case) are promised (contractually) but the government didnt bother to allocate funds for them. So not shown in the Prefu.”
        
        See my comment above – the ECE expenses are quantified as a specific fiscal risk.
        
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        November 22, 2023 1:10pm
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        I agree with Benedict on this.
        
        Treasury does actually know the properly set out the government accounts. They do this independently from the minister and the government of the day. They have statutory independence in that regard, in the same way as NZ Stats.
        
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        November 22, 2023 2:08pm
      - mogg
        
        Since Prefu there has been a rapid increase in benchmark interest rates, that will be a big increase in our ever increasing debt repayments. SOE’s are corporatised agencies which take on their own debt but the taxpayer ultimately liable should thugs go wrong who knows what problems will occur there.
        Stephen Joyce’s $15 B dollar shortfall was hidden by borrowing by these agencies rather on government books as a way of hiding it. Robertson is somebody who makes Ardern look competent and capable.
        
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        November 22, 2023 2:43pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    There is a reason Labour were so keen to get rid of Uffers, snd his forensic work at banks may well find hidden or misappropriated funds, the previous regime was the most corrupt that I remember, so it is quite possible Robertson hid debt from treasury
    
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    November 22, 2023 10:26am
    - imalwaysright
      
      He’s probably not the only forensic accountant available, you make it sound like he is the only one who labour think can uncover their fraud.
      
      If he is bright, he certainly hides it well.
      
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      November 22, 2023 10:51am
  - Keith White
    
    I would be astounded if there is not some superficially hidden fiscal ticking bomb that was hidden by the outgoing government.
    
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    November 22, 2023 10:55am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Ben its not what is in the PREFU, its the spending and revenue assumptions that Robertson used which will cause the really problems…. Fiscal forecasts are easy to manipulate to give nice forward looking surplus and deb levels…
    
    I seem to recall the Treasury including some bureaucrat speak in the PREFU which elude to issues with out calling them out direct – because who says the Boss is fibbing?
    
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    November 22, 2023 11:24am
nathie

News headlines this morning: “14,000 civilians have been killed in Gaza according to Hamas”.

But as always no MSM disclaimer that these figures haven’t been “independently verified”.

Which is odd, because that’s what they say when reporting on the current war in eastern Europe … but for some reason the MSM is happy to uncritically take the side of Hamas who are fanatical genocidal terrorists.

(Note: the deaths of civilians on either side is terrible).
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November 22, 2023 8:34am
- mandk
  
  The headline was mis-typed.
  
  It should have read:”14,000 civilians have been killed in Gaza because of Hamas.”
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:44am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Rhetorical question. Would it be ok if it was 8,000? How many dead children is acceptable?
  
  Just more confirmation that as the quote attributed to Stalin said, “One death is a tragedy, 1 million is a statistic”.
  
  We’ll get upset about 1 child dying from abuse in NZ, but numbers like these from conflict zones roll of the tongue apparently without difficulty.
  
  I’m not criticising anyone, just observing human nature.
  You are correct, the deaths of innocent people everywhere is a terrible.
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:48am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    The IRAs justification for killing civilians on the UK mainland was that as tax payers they financed the British army in Ireland. Such are the minds of these people.
    
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    November 22, 2023 9:02am
    - kowtow
      
      And anybody , even in the so called war of independence who was a law abiding citizen and reported their criminality to the police /security services was labelled a collaborator/informer and murdered.
      
      To this day a genocidal slaughter of rural Protestants in Co Cork is still justified on that basis .( and that was after the “truce”)
      As was the campaign of murder against hundreds of policemen .
      
      See Dunmanway massacre.
      
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      November 22, 2023 12:49pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Stellaboxer – which is quite laughable as the vast majority of the members of the paramilitaries on both sides of the conflict were on UK government benefits!!
      
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      November 23, 2023 6:50am
  - nathie
    
    Clan – indeed. Clearly/ideally the figure would be zero (as in, Hamas/IDF concentrate on each other. Wishful thinking I know).
    
    But you also bring up a good point when quoting Stalin which Hamas could learn from. The more Hamas ramp up the figures the more they become “statistics”. OTOH if the true figure was much, much less than that then (human condition) it is easier to individualise (?) the suffering.
    
    Hamas yet again continue to let the Palestinian people down …
    
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    November 22, 2023 9:21am
    - I remember when
      
      “as in, Hamas/IDF concentrate on each other.”
      I have seen numerous examples of IDF activity, tanks, soldiers, etc.
      Apart from a few rifle shots, and likely archival footage, nothing Hamas.
      It was a Hamas attack, Gaza is governed by Hamas.
      By definition Gaza is at war.
      
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      November 22, 2023 10:05am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Clan
      
      Its sad that we are commenting on the perception of the public of the number of dead people.
      
      What is the right number?
      
      In a macabre turn, what would be the next step, does each side poll their respective population, or the world in general, to get the most sympathetic number?
      
      I agree with you.
      
      Zero
      
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      November 22, 2023 11:47am
  - cmm
    
    Clan, first off the 14,000 number is bullshit. Hamas have always inflated numbers in the past and are undoubtedly doing so again.
    Even 8000 is likely inflated.
    
    The actual number of casualties is less important than how they are caused.
    
    Hamas is deliberately placing legitimate targets amongst the civilian population (in houses, hospitals and apartment blocks etc). This is considered a war crime (by Hamas).
    
    IDF has a right to attack these. That is targeting Hamas. It is not targeting civilians.
    
    Any deaths caused by these tactics are on Hamas’ head.
    
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    November 22, 2023 9:45am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      cmm – sweet, then stop all pretence of “rules” of war. Get rid of the Geneva Convention and all war crimes tribunals. Let’s just rip shit and bust.
      
      Nobody has the ‘right’ to deliberately target civilians. They have the means and they have the will, that doesn’t mean they have the right. Maybe you should read up on the text of those ‘war crimes’ you’re referring to.
      
      The terrorists are hiding among the civilians. According to your logic this makes all civilian targets legitimate. According to you the British Army should have used heavy artillery on the Falls Road in Belfast in the seventies. Maybe you think the Mai Lai Massacre was justified? No doubt those gooks were hiding the VC?
      
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      November 22, 2023 10:57am
      - Tom Hunter
        
        I suggest you read this, Bombing your way to proportionality and this, International Law In War where a legal expert directly addresses the bog-standard talking points about sieges and such.
        
        Also from the first link is judicial commentary from 1947 where the judges directly confronted the arguments of one Otto Ohlendorff, head Einsatzgruppe D, who had argued that what he and his men had done was no different than the Allied bombers over Dresden and other German cities:
        
        A city is bombed for tactical purposes… it inevitably happens that nonmilitary persons are killed. This is an incident, a grave incident to be sure, but an unavoidable corollary of battle action. The civilians are not individualized. The bomb falls, it is aimed at the railroad yards, houses along the tracks are hit and many of their occupants killed. But that is entirely different, both in fact and in law, from an armed force marching up to these same railroad tracks, entering those houses abutting thereon, dragging out the men, women and children and shooting them.
        
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        November 22, 2023 11:20am
      - cmm
        
        ” Get rid of the Geneva Convention and all war crimes tribunals.”
        
        The Geneva Convention bans using civilians as humaan shields.
        
        It does not ban attacking targets placed amongst civilians.
        
        Hamas are breaking the rules of the Geneva Convention. IDF are not.
        
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        November 22, 2023 7:58pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Tom Hunter – the ‘judicial comment’ you reference is a nonsensical and reprehensible clear and blatant whitewash of a deliberate act of mass murder by the allies during WW2.
        
        The civilian population of Dresden was clearly the target in a brutal attack designed to terrorise and demoralise the population of Germany. That’s why incendiaries were used. Let’s revisit that ‘judicial’ comment.
        
        The civilians are not individualized.
        
        – no they aren’t, the are deliberately targeted en masse.
        
        The bomb falls, it is aimed at the railroad yards, houses along the tracks are hit and many of their occupants killed. But that is entirely different, both in fact and in law, from an armed force marching up to these same railroad tracks, entering those houses abutting thereon, dragging out the men, women and children and shooting them.
        
        The bombing of Dresden wasn’t aimed at any railroad yards. It was indiscriminate carpet bombing of civilian houses throughout the city. To try and portray this as anything else is simply lying to defend an indefensible position.
        
        Dragging the people out of the house and shooting them would have been much more honest and dignified than burning them to death from 10,000 feet.
        
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        November 23, 2023 6:47am
- All_on_Red
  
  14,000 deaths is huge
  So where are they buried?
  That’s a big cemetery
  Surely there must be photos of 14,000 freshly dug Graves
  No?
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:52am
  - nathie
    
    Exactly and surely there would be reports that mortuaries are being totally overwhelmed and that vastly more refrigerators are critically needed.
    
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    November 22, 2023 9:01am
    - nathie
      
      Edit to add (should have closed the above with a “question mark”):
      
      But I haven’t heard a single report saying any of this! Which suggests civilian deaths are being exaggerated by Hamas!
      
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      November 22, 2023 1:23pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    What’s your estimate? Only 7,000?
    
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    November 22, 2023 9:04am
    - cmm
      
      Every one of these is caused by Hamas using the population as human shields.
      
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      November 22, 2023 9:46am
      - imalwaysright
        
        I thought it was Israeli missiles that killed them.
        
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        November 22, 2023 11:57am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    In the Hammas tunnels
    
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    November 22, 2023 10:27am
- Burtland
  
  the BBC must be one of the worst for narrative control – TVNZ and RNZ then directly use their reports.
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:56am
  - kowtow
    
    Yes they’ve milked the Shifa babies for all they were worth .
    The hostages , not so much.
    
    Even today AP , from where NZME gets much of its ‘news’ feed is questioning the IDF tunnels in hospitals narrative , including the release of that harrowing video of the two hostages in the hospital . AP calls them “purported hostages”.
    
    Anyway it takes time to safely uncover bunkers , but they will . And they’ve found enough already , but that’s obvioulsy not enough for the terror hugging media.
    
    The media are curating finds and evidence . Plenty from Israeli sources .Including schools and mosques used for terror.
    
    We can’t rely on “our” msm for anything other than the “narrative” .
    
    Be it , covid , climate , race, gender , and the latest Israel .
    
    Another remarkable issue is how there is so much msm coverage of this war , with so much emotionalism ( shifa babies, civilian Gaza casualties) and so very little from say ; Yemen , Sudan massacres again right now , Azerbaijan and Armenia and of course Russia /Ukraine.
    
    We’re being played , again , as always.
    
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    November 22, 2023 9:17am
- Blog-aholic
  
  200K in Syria, 400K in Yemen Arab on Arabs but no MSM…..
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:03am
  - NothingLeft
    
    I remember an old parody headline:
    
    “Brangelina split! and 10,000 brown people killed by some other brown people somewhere for some reason”
    
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    November 22, 2023 11:02am
- Simon
  
  See George Orwell, Homage to Catalonia quote above.
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:26am
- G152
  
  Theyre to busy finding newborns they can parade as victims not mentioning that the babies are victims of hamas
  
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  November 22, 2023 10:56am
Martonman

On the subject of inflation, just received my Contents Insurance renewal from large NZ Insurance company increase of 33.8% with no increase in cover.
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November 22, 2023 8:35am
- Taieri
  
  Similar increase for my car insurance. 29% – $511 last year, $659 this year. No claims in the period in between.
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:45am
- krazykiwi
  
  Company?
  
  Name and shame.
  
  9 0
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  November 22, 2023 8:52am
  - kevn
    
    (replying)… AA.
    
    9 0
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    November 22, 2023 9:06am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Good man, kevn.
      
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      November 22, 2023 11:37am
  - wsk12345
    
    My house insurance went up 61% in March. I dread to think what might happen this March. Trademe Insurance (Tower)
    
    9 0
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    November 22, 2023 9:50am
    - Inandout
      
      wsk. Tower may be the clue.
      
      6 0
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      November 22, 2023 11:46am
      - wsk12345
        
        Tower was hundreds cheaper than AA and AMI.
        
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        November 22, 2023 6:32pm
  - Martonman
    
    AA
    
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    November 22, 2023 11:07am
  - Taieri
    
    AMI
    
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    November 22, 2023 12:40pm
- Colville
  
  Yeah mine went up a similar percentage.. nearly $3K now.. But I aint grumbling.
  
  I had half a meter of seawater thru downstairs thanks to Gabby…and they paid out circa $100K without hardly a blink.
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:56am
  - kevn
    
    Colville… Fine, that is the contract. But, will they honour any more claims? Insurance companies are very good at weasleing out if possible.
    Fair weather friends.
    
    8 0
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    November 22, 2023 9:09am
    - Inandout
      
      kevn, if the client claims often they will load the premium, like overseas companies are doing with EVs.
      
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      November 22, 2023 11:49am
    - imalwaysright
      
      K
      Insurance companies , heads they win tails you lose.
      
      5 0
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      November 22, 2023 12:00pm
- cmm
  
  Clearly there has been an increase in risk.
  
  Crime is up.
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:58am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    More related to natural disasters.
    
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    November 22, 2023 9:05am
  - OlderChas
    
    B – bu -but – cmm – I haven’t seen a report of a ram raid for weeks! So surely – crime is down?////
    
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    November 22, 2023 10:20am
    - NothingLeft
      
      Election is over, so media might start to report on crime and other social ills again.
      
      6 0
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      November 22, 2023 11:04am
- Inandout
  
  Mart: crime, floods all add to costs but the insurance field is still very competitive.
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:01am
- Blog-aholic
  
  My car insurance went up 42% on a decreased agreed value…..explanations was lamer than lame.
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:04am
- GJM
  
  Yes. Rent has gone up on my grandmother’s house, that has been rented for years. Rates went up $800 in the last 2 years, of which $500 in the last year alone. Insurance went up 1.75 times ($1500) this year. No claims except a $500 broken window in the last 20 years.
  As I said to the tenants, I can’t afford to hold it anymore, and the rent increase doesn’t even cover the cost increases, + none of the rent is going to me, but wasteful council and insurance.
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:10am
  - rouppe
    
    I’ve just sold my last rental. I had been thinking about it, but the math pushed me over the edge:
    
    Sold for net $800,000 (which is about $200,000 less than they were talking at the peak 2 years ago).
    At 6.1% term deposit that brings in $48,800pa before tax.
    To earn the same renting I’d need to rent it for $938 pw which is impossible.
    No expenses such as rates and insurance.
    
    So raw numbers has me earning twice as much from the sold asset as holding it. And paying twice as much tax. Which I’m OK with as it’s income tax.
    
    This does not account for capital gain. Lord knows where that’s going in the next 12 months, however I am 61, on contract at a govt department until June at which time I have no idea what will happen. The money will ultimately go into global share funds. Cashing in now gives me the option to walk away. Choice is power. Power is good.
    
    In addition, I will spend the next year investigating ways to protect my capital from Labour and the Greens wealth tax that they will surely bring in next time they win an election.
    
    Anyone recommend a good tax lawyer?
    
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    November 22, 2023 3:40pm
- Master Mariner
  
  They have been enabled by Councils, Government through Scare mongering of sea level rise, Extreme weather etc, all under the Guise of “Climate Change”.
  
  IAG CEO is rubbing his hands with Glee , You could not create a better climate for an Insurer for any Country than NZ. Unintended consequences strikes again, Is it Naevity or Planned by the Government ?
  “IAG says it insures $940 billion of commercial and domestic assets in NZ.”
  
  “New Zealand’s biggest insurer is urging the incoming government to push on with natural hazard risk reduction, climate change adaptation and managed retreat work to help keep insurance available and affordable in the face of stark impacts, and rising costs, from extreme weather and natural hazards.”
  
  https://www.interest.co.nz/insurance/125301/iag-says-it-has-paid-out-more-1-billion-insurance-claims-north-island-floods
  
  The question I am concerned with, Are ICE paying a premium for EV cover in NZ, Thereby keeping them artificially Low?
  
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  November 22, 2023 10:06am
  - alloytoo
    
    Probably Yes.
    
    We also subsidizing them for road user charges
    
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    November 22, 2023 12:12pm
- rouppe
  
  House policy on a rental went up 27%.
  
  Westpac insurance.
  
  Sold it now so not my problem anymore.
  
  Essentially, since all insurance ultimately boils down to only a few companies, we are paying for the floods elsewhere. Despite my insurance having been put up previously because of earthquake risk in Wellington.
  
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  November 22, 2023 12:57pm
- Close Hen Counters
  
  Me too – tower
  
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  November 22, 2023 1:09pm
Tomtoddy

Every year the BBC lists 100 women of influence. Called BBC100. Interesting Ardern has never made the list. I am no fan of the BBC – a tribe of crazy lefties – but maybe they know a thing or two about our former “amazing” PM.
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November 22, 2023 8:37am
- hmmokrightitis
  
  And all I can hear is that brilliant line from one of my favourite Australian comedies…
  
  “One day I want to be effluent…”
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:40am
- krazykiwi
  
  Ardern influence extends a few metres beyond the point where her vacuous piffle emanates from her mouth and falls lamely to the ground passing all but a handful of woke listeners who couldn’t get away in time.
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:57am
  - I remember when
    
    Truely an example of the effect of removing your hand out of water.
    It’s already as if it never happened.
    
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    November 22, 2023 9:48am
  - Master Mariner
    
    I put her in 2 categories which everyone will be left in a state of either,
    Mesmerised or Demoralised.
    
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    November 22, 2023 10:10am
TripeWryter

Petone, Pito-one …
I’ve lived in this suburb for about 30 years.
I’m not all that wedded to the ‘incorrect’ name so I’m not sure I care about the proposed rectification.
But what has interested me is that no-one knew a name-change was being discussed until the story broke on Monday afternoon.
Que? Where did that come from?
And it was being pushed by a Palmerston North-based group.
And on the news this morning somebody from a Taranaki whanui was commenting.
The Lower Hutt City Council apparently voted unanimously yesterday to endorse the proposal going to the Geographic Board, which makes the decision.
Mike Hosking gently skewered the Mayor, Campbell Barry, over the lack of consultation beyond a few informal conversations.
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November 22, 2023 8:42am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Yes, at the very least the ratepayers should be consulted.
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:05am
  - Blog-aholic
    
    Who red thumbs a comment that describes a democratic stance? Then again with the state of our nation some people would probably prefer they just got their way like the petulant spolit children they are.
    
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    November 22, 2023 12:30pm
  - Paulus
    
    Why should ratepayers be consulted – Maori do not have to consult anybody remember.
    Any change they want is automatically approved.
    
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    November 22, 2023 1:38pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Taranaki Whanui represents the iwi whose rohe covers the Hutt Valley (also soon to have its name restored).
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:08am
  - TripeWryter
    
    I am related to people in a couple of iwis (one of my great-uncles had an affair with a chief’s daughter) and for a few years I had a niece whose tribe was subsumed by Ngai Tahu.
    A few years ago members of this small tribe objected publicly to Sir Stephen O’Regan’s presuming to speak for them.
    He loftily dismissed them with the comment: ‘Ngai Tahu speaks by right of conquest.’
    I am often puzzled by what appears to me to be a double-standard. Iwis slaughtered each other even before massacres of The Musket Wars era.
    Yet somehow that is rarely mentioned in polite society.
    My niece’s people said their grievance was mostly with Ngai Tahu and not with whiteys.
    Mikenmild, your comment leads me to ask: who of the Maori tribes has the right to pursue this Pito-one matter: the descendants of the original iwi or the descendants of their conquerors?
    You might be able to answer and help us out here.
    As for my cousins: they mostly abhor and reject the ‘Maoris as victims’ mantra of ‘progressive’ Maori politicians.
    
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    November 22, 2023 10:28am
    - NothingLeft
      
      Ngai Tahu were a north Island outfit that conquered the south in the late 17th century. South Island Maori and Chatham Islanders had a harder life trying to survive winters and so didn’t have constant warfare they were always easy targets.
      
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      November 22, 2023 11:11am
    - krazykiwi
      
      “You might be able to answer and help us out here”
      
      Other than the occasionally informative comment about military history you may have noticed the milky is here for nothing more than trolling and sniping.
      
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      November 22, 2023 11:51am
    - Blog-aholic
      
      Taranaki Iwi that Jackson is a member of have a claim in the High Court for Chathams Island land that is based upon their ‘conquering and subjugation’ of the Moriori.
      
      Iwi in NZ will never escape the fact that they went about conquering and subjugation of other Iwi over and over and over again. Like it or not it is recorded fact.
      
      Maybe the English should have used the same conquering and subjugation rule instead of a treaty…….
      
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      November 22, 2023 12:34pm
      - Burtland
        
        ‘conquering and subjugation’ – what you mean is slaughtering, enslaving and cannibalizing to the extent of genocide in the case of the Chathams Moriori. Even after signing the treaty there were still slaves on the Chathams.
        
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        November 22, 2023 2:23pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        But it’s all good and proper when it’s Maori on Maori massacres. No apology or reparations required. Only 19th Century whites should be judged by 21st century standards.
        
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        November 22, 2023 7:39pm
    - rouppe
      
      I am often puzzled by what appears to me to be a double-standard. Iwis slaughtered each other even before massacres of The Musket Wars era.
      Yet somehow that is rarely mentioned in polite society.
      
      Also raises questions of “we’ve always owned the water”. Really? What did Taunui pay Tuwharetoa for the water from Lake Taupo? You and I know the answer is “nothing”.
      
      Also the “we were here first” narrative. The widely described fighting between iwi shows that any people who were here before Maori would have been killed immediately. It’s just that we don’t know if anyone was here before Maori.
      
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      November 22, 2023 1:04pm
      - nathie
        
        ” It’s just that we don’t know if anyone was here before Maori.”.
        
        Possibly other Melanesians (by accident eg caught in currents)? Melanesians have been in the Pacific for thousands of years, so what are the odds?
        
        Ngapuhi elder David Rankin also says:
        
        He pointed to Maori oral histories which referred to people being here when the first Maori arrived, including fair-skinned people.
        
        “If we believe our histories, then we as Maori are not the indigenous people of New Zealand.”
        
        https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/historians-rubbish-claims-academic-consipiracy
        
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        November 22, 2023 3:21pm
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Taranaki Whanui represent the invading tribal groups from surprise, surprise Taranaki and the West Coast of the King Country up to who came to the lower north island to escape from Waikato and Hauraki based tribes.
    
    Te Atiawa, Ngati Mutunga, Ngati Tama primarily make up Taranaki Whanui with Ngati Toa being separate authority in the Wellington Region
    
    This 4 tribal groups plus Ngati Koata and Ngati Ruakawa are resposnible for massive carnage in the Rangiteki, Horowhenua, Mana, Wellington, Hutt and Wairarapa
    
    Where are Ngati Ira in this conversation? Was Ngati Kahanugnu consulted by Hutt City?
    
    No they weren’t – Barry would have talked to Te Atiawa (easy enough to do as a senior member of management is a Puketapu who have a power base at Waiwhetu Marae) and then decided this was the thing to do ….
    
    But a name is nothing really. HCC have voted 12-0 to create a Maori only ward……
    
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    November 22, 2023 11:43am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Yep. The mana whenua here in Wellington are descended from bloodthirsty genocidal maniacs who wiped out the previous inhabitants.
      
      But you don’t hear that stated very often.
      
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      November 22, 2023 7:52pm
- pdm
  
  TripeW.
  
  Lower Hutt Mayor Barry told Mike Hosking his support was based on talking to 20 people.
  
  Not even the beginning of a sample of the population.
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:16am
  - TripeWryter
    
    pdm: yes, I heard that.
    
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    November 22, 2023 10:29am
- nathie
  
  What was the original Maori name for the area before the invading tribes wiped out the original inhabitants?
  
  Perhaps if Pito-one was the original name, then … yeah!
  
  If it is the name of the conquering “colonising” tribes, then …. nah!
  
  (TBH: Keep the Petone as Petone (because change comes with costs and everyone in living memory knows it as Petone) but say rename the beach as Pita-one as an acknowledgement to the past, that’s a thought from seeing the news item last night).
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:33am
  - lifesgood
    
    The Geographic Board ALWAYS sides with Maori on name changes. As I said yesterday this is ridiculous. Everyone throughout New Zealand will still call it Petone. This change is complete waste of time and money.
    
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    November 22, 2023 10:35am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Find someone from Ngati Ira and ask them – not sure if there are many left, but must be some as not all where killed and Te Atiawa treated them as a slave tribe according to Edward Wakefields Adventures in Maoriland/New Zealand book (Maoriland was dropped from the title but was the original title when i first saw the book)
    
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    November 22, 2023 11:46am
  - Inandout
    
    nath, Petone is often referred to as Pet One, like Papatoetoe is Papa Two Toes and Onehunga as One Hunga. That is what I like about Aussies they shorten every word and place name.
    
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    November 22, 2023 11:56am
- Paulus
  
  Any decision which goes to the Geographic Board (for Maori actually) is automatically approved so get off the grass.
  
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  November 22, 2023 1:36pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  This is truly Orwellesque.
  
  Petone was not spelt by Maoris. Petone was spelt by pakehas, since Maoris didn’t have a written language.
  
  Now the local Maoris are saying that the Pakehas spelt Petone wrongly.
  
  Huh??
  
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  November 22, 2023 7:55pm
kevn

hmmm… ‘She’ achieved that pinnacle.
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November 22, 2023 8:47am
- krazykiwi
  
  kevn, I’m joining Maggie in asking you to use the Reply link under the comment you’re replying to. It would make your comments more contextual and easier to reply to. Here ends the Hall Monitor commentary 😉
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:01am
  - kevn
    
    kk… All good, I am pleased you read my humble offerings and so take note.
    
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    November 22, 2023 9:41am
NothingLeft

Short but interesting summary/perspective on Ukraine war and what it would take for them to win. https://youtu.be/x282zbvyfdA
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November 22, 2023 8:49am
slightlyrighty

I think the upcoming coalition announcement shgould conclude with Seymour and Peters playing “Rock, Paper, Scissors” for the role of Deputy PM.
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November 22, 2023 9:01am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Depends, if Peters is foreign minister then it’s probably stupid him being dep pm, he won’t be here much of the time, and if Luxon wants to be over dead getting deals, Peters and Luxon may well be out of the country at the same time, it would probably be better to make Willis dep pm and make sure both leaders have their hands full
  
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  November 22, 2023 10:31am
- Paulus
  
  Don’t want either Seymour or Peters in that role.
  Why have one except of an exceptional basis
  as required at the time.
  I will be very disappointed if either are appointed.
  
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  November 22, 2023 1:41pm
Maggie Pie

I know my great-grandad was fairly high up in the Freemasons.
Still got a suitcase full of his old paraphenalia stored in the basement somewhere.
There’s all sorts of things like badges, buckles, aprons, tools, knives etc.
Think I’ll get it out one day and list it on Trademe.

Mum used to say he was always very secretive about what went on.
So interesting to see someone post this undercover vid on ‘X’….

https://twitter.com/kyleisbased/status/1727011006952710307
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November 22, 2023 9:16am
- MCōs
  
  Not a lot different from a baptism in a catholic church except the baby is not there of it’s own free will.
  Why do the priests wear all those odd clothes?
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:39am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    You’d be a Mason wouldn’t ya’ cossie?
    Into secret handshakes and all that sorta shit 😀
    
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    November 22, 2023 10:06am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Nothing secret about the different handshakes.
      
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      November 22, 2023 10:14am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        No reply Maggie Pie?
        I thought the Viaduct would know this stuff?
        
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        November 22, 2023 5:17pm
- Cassandra
  
  The answer is to ignore him of course but somehow that doesn’t seem possible. He spoils it by saying something sensible every so often. Once a month or so.
  
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  November 22, 2023 11:05am
- Cassandra
  
  Masonic ritual is symbolic. The Book used is that appropriate to the local culture, in NZ the Bible. The secrecy is also symbolic. They are good people.
  
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  November 22, 2023 11:08am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Parents got flooded twice in Thames. Masons came around and dragged out carpets and furniture and beds to be disposed of.
    After a lot of cleaning sewerage, I put the power back on. Not a hard job but Thames was overloaded.
    The Masons have storage places for this stuff.
    
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    November 22, 2023 5:22pm
- slightlyrighty
  
  Speaking from experience, what you are seeing is pretty much bollocks.
  
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  November 22, 2023 12:52pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Says a Buffalo of High Order…..
    
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    November 22, 2023 5:24pm
- Arthur Fleck
  
  As already commented, there are no real secrets in Freemasonry, it’s all largely symbolic. There have been hundreds of books written on the subject which are freely available to anyone who really wants to understand what the movement was about. Alas, it’s easier to cast ignorant aspersions at easy targets.
  
  Freemasons currently number between 4 and 5,000 in NZ and declining. Gang members are around 10,000+ and increasing. It’s a sign of a degraded culture.
  
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  November 22, 2023 1:22pm
- Paulus
  
  Freemasonry is, I am told is an organisation of secrets, and not a secret society.
  
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  November 22, 2023 1:43pm
  - Arthur Fleck
    
    Any secrets the movement may have had were exposed centuries ago. You can find their ritual books on Trade Me. And given that they advertise their presence on road signs at the entrance to most towns, I can’t see how anyone could accuse them of being a secret society.
    
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    November 22, 2023 4:32pm
Benedict Yu

Here is a story that shows how wacky the UN can be.

Back in March, a New Zealander named Morgan Trowland, and a mate, decided to scale the Queen Elizabeth Bridge across the Thames Estuary. They were protesting about climate change.

The bridge forms part of the orbital motorway around London, the M25. They refused to come down and the bridge had to be closed for 40 hours.

When they went to court, they thought they would get a slap on the wrist. Instead they were sentenced to three years in prison. They just lost an appeal.

Now one of the senior climate change guys at the UN has written to the UK PM complaining about the sentence.

“I am gravely concerned about the potential flow-on effect that the severity of the sentences could have on civil society and the work of activists, expressing concerns about the triple planetary crisis and, in particular, the impacts of climate change on human rights and on future generations.”

https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/11/21/uk-pm-says-tough-sentences-for-climate-protesters-are-entirely-right-after-un-criticism

The UK PM told him to take a hike. 😂

I recall the incident. This was not blocking a street for an hour. It closed one of the most critical road corridors in the UK for two days. It would have caused major economic losses and could have threatened lives.

The UN climate change folk are endorsing this behaviour. Also what do they expect the UK Government to do? It can’t interfere with the judiciary.
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November 22, 2023 9:19am
- hmmokrightitis
  
  There will come a point in time when one of these protestors puts themselves in harms way on a motorway and a vehicle cant – or chooses not – to stop.
  
  Precedent of course is the Kings horse last century.
  
  But then the world is boiling isn’t it. Funny, because Im just back from the northern hemisphere where a climbing expedition had to be curtailed by very early snow. Again. Oh how we lol’d at the Boiling World (TM).
  
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  November 22, 2023 9:52am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Incredibly, these guys climbed to the top of the bridge stays. They must have had mountaineering of similiar experience. You can see them as the two little dots in this photo.
    
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/professional-civil-engineer-year-i-768743651.jpg?strip=all&w=960
    
    I guess the traffic was stopped in case they fell.
    
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    November 22, 2023 10:09am
    - Matt Long
      
      I don’t see what danger they were posing to traffic, even if they weren’t using safety lines the chances of them landing on a car and causing an accident would be less than a run of the mill car collision.
      Seems the bureaucratic persons who closed the bridge down should be doing the jail time.
      
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      November 22, 2023 11:28am
- krazykiwi
  
  “The UK PM told him to take a hike”
  
  Well done that man. The UN, who have a fully disclosed global governance plan, need to treated as rodents, ie continuously subjected to professional exterminators until they return to their raison d’être – peace keeping
  
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  November 22, 2023 12:07pm
Yvette

Cardiac ablation procedure
Perhaps consider a point which echoes Ardern’s matter-a-fact “Yep, it is what it is …”
can one divorce a personal association with Sean Plunket (earliest comments this morning) and just ask –
Is a “Scum Bag Hate-mongering Zionist” Health Authority needed?

Think about it – but not too much, as it could cause a pain that is not medical.
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November 22, 2023 9:27am
- imalwaysright
  
  What are you trying to say?
  
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  November 22, 2023 12:11pm
I remember when

BBC 100 Women 2023: Who is on the list this year?

Kara Sherwood-O’Regan, NZ:
Climate, Indigenous rights and disability advocate.
“We are rejecting the extractivist model, we are taking up space, we are leading with community – and it is working.
I think many people now recognise that the realisation of indigenous sovereignity is the solution to the climate crisis.”

There. Well that’s that fixed!!
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November 22, 2023 9:30am
Maggie Pie

I’ve always had real concerns about the agenda of the green antisemite MP-for-Tijuana 🙁

Serious if true….

https://twitter.com/SimonRAnderson1/status/1726862479316414535
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November 22, 2023 9:55am
- Apteryx
  
  This is interesting. The tweet Maggie links to says “The Mexican extremist Ricardo Menendez March entered NZ on a foreign student visa. Recently he started claiming his mother is a Kiwi. I’ve seen no evidence to support this assertion and don’t believe it to be true. Do we have an over-stayer sitting in our parliament?”
  
  I haven’t seen him claim to have a New Zealand mother, but here is Chris Trotter saying in April 2023 that March came to New Zealand with his New Zealand-born mother: https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2023/04/chris-trotter-test-for-greens.html
  
  If his mother was born in New Zealand then March is a New Zealand citizen by descent. He is one automatically, and doesn’t have to apply for citizenship (section 7, Citizenship Act 1977). If his mother was a citizen by descent things would be different.
  
  If March was a New Zealand citizen he would not have to pay international student fees, at least at Auckland University (https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/study/fees-and-money-matters/tuition-fees/undergraduate-international-fees.html)
  
  He has said publicly that he came to New Zealand to study, but “soon found out” that international student fees were very expensive and (after four years, 2006-2010) dropped out. (No degree even after four years?)
  
  The linked tweet above asks whether March is an overstayer. Some interesting comments in his maiden speech (https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/document/HansS_20201208_052080000/men%C3%A9ndez-march-ricardo-mallard-trevor):
  
  “In our queer community there is a saying that I love. It goes, “Be gay, do crime.” To me it means to be transgressive, to acknowledge that decision makers have created rules that criminalise our survival and our existence.”
  
  “For many migrant communities, finding legitimate ways to stay connected to their new homes is a crime that results in an overstayer status.”
  
  “The rules were simply not made for us. They were made to uphold a system where the wealthy few keep getting richer at the expense of our planet, and this House is enabling it. When your ability to be who you are—and therefore your survival—is criminalised, it is an act of love to break the rules to allow others to thrive.”
  
  Hmmm. Is that an admission?
  
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  November 22, 2023 1:47pm
  - Ghost
    
    Being born overseas he would have to register for citizenship by descent. It’s not automatic.
    
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    November 22, 2023 2:03pm
    - Apteryx
      
      A qualifying person can apply to register their citizenship by descent if they need proof e.g. for getting a passport. But that registration doesn’t make them a citizen as they already are one. It’s automatic. Registration simply provides an official record of the fact.
      
      This is provided for in the Citizenship Act:
      7 Citizenship by descent
      (1) Every person born outside New Zealand on or after 1 January 1978 is a New Zealand citizen by descent if, at the time of the person’s birth,—
      (a) his or her mother or father was a New Zealand citizen otherwise than by descent; or
      
      (May depend on whether March was born in 1977 or earlier.)
      
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      November 22, 2023 3:21pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Oh well done Apteryx! YIP, certainly sounds like an admission to me.
    
    If he actually stood in The House and said…. “Be gay. Do crime”, my partner’s mum reckons that should be enough to not only have him terfed out of parliament, but possibly the country?
    
    You’d also have to wonder about his partner that he brought back here from Mexico during lock-down. From memory, even Chris Bishop thort that was scandalous. I recall rweading he was on a 6 month visa. Wonder what HIS current status is?
    
    In the meantime, he’s still suking 4k a week off hard working taxpayers.
    Lets hope the new Immigration Minister looks into this pronto.
    
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    November 22, 2023 2:40pm
oldpark

President Kennedy was murdered 60 Years ago today, Allegedly by C. I. A. Maybe Yes or No .
Asking for Millions of interested People .
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November 22, 2023 10:01am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  I was at a Naval pre sea training school and we were Cadets RNR and we thought that we might be called up as there could have been a likelihood of war.
  
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  November 22, 2023 10:16am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Last true Democrat.
  
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  November 22, 2023 10:26am
  - imalwaysright
    
    S.O
    Do you think JFK jr was Arkancide?
    
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    November 22, 2023 12:14pm
  - Ghost
    
    Last true president.
    
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    November 22, 2023 12:22pm
- Arthur Fleck
  
  And there are still files relating to the assassination that the government won’t release. What are they hiding?
  
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  November 22, 2023 1:29pm
- RdM
  
  Was it a faked death?
  
  mileswmathis.com/barindex2.pdf
  
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  November 23, 2023 10:37pm
Notsofast

Auckland council insists on using te reo names for plants rather than the latin botanical names. The problem is that in many case while latin has a name for both genus and species te reo only has a name for the genus. But customers want particular species. Result – confusion.
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November 22, 2023 10:22am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Sometimes Maori names of a plant refers to quite different/unrelated genera.
  
  i.e. puka – can refer to Meryta sinclairii and Griselinea lucida
  
  and a plant can have different te reo names depending on location/iwi
  
  i.e. Brachyglottis repanda is variously known as pukapuka or rangiora.
  
  However, Latin plant names aren’t fixed entities…
  
  The fern that I learnt as Polystichum richardii (common shield fern) is now known to be comprised of 4 different entities (3 species)
  https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0028825X.2003.9512841
  
  I know some folks have tried to standardize the maori names of plants, but for our divaricating shrubs, the name mikimiki/mingimingi is practically meaningless….as it could refer to numerous small-leaved, highly branched shrubs.
  
  https://www.nzpcn.org.nz/flora/species/?common_name=mingimingi
  
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  November 22, 2023 1:31pm
- Paulus
  
  But only the Latin names are believed and accepted world wide and not as possible fakes.
  
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  November 22, 2023 1:46pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.
Some are offended. Well nothing happens when you are ‘offended’ so be offended! Steve Hughes.
We retain the right of free speech!

“Batchelor confirmed DB Breweries had contacted him. However, the company had “no copyright”, he said.
“Yea Right” is just two words, how can you copyright that?

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/stuff-produces-hilarious-article-about-our-billboards-its-a-must-read/
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November 22, 2023 10:38am
Surely Knott

Unanswered questions by the media:
1. What races were the victim and offender in the racially motivated attack at the Dunedin bus stop yesterday? What is the name of the offender who was arrested?
2. What kinds of dogs were they in the fatal attack that killed a woman in Northland and the attack that left a toddler critically injured?
3. Who shot Green candidate activist, Jack Brazil? Are the police still looking for the shooter? Who was in the car with him? Why won’t he say? Why didn’t the person in the car with him drive him to the hospital. Why was it Jacks cafe that was raided by police?
4. Why is Menendez March story, which was originally that he was a Mexican foreign migrant, who had saved to send him here for a better opportunity, now says he had a kiwi mum? Who was his mum? Did she live in NZ? Had he spent time in NZ before? Does he have other NZ siblings? Why was he paying big dollars for international student fees if his mother was a kiwi? If you drop out of university , is your international student visa still valid.
5. When will the coroner report back on the 4th vaccine death?
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November 22, 2023 10:45am
- Keith White
  
  The coroner will report back on the vaccine death on the 12th of Never.
  
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  November 22, 2023 11:06am
  - mawm
    
    5a. Why do so many possible covid vaccine deaths not get an autopsy, do not have antibody tests for the spike protein and the nucleocapsid antibody, and why, if autopsied, are the tissues not stained for mRNA infiltration with a stain to differentiate between covid mRNA and vaccine mRNA?
    5c. Does anybody seriously believe we have had only 4 mRNA vaccine deaths?
    
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    November 22, 2023 4:02pm
- Yvette
  
  6. Are Police still sifting through photos from Pike River drill-holes, trying to decide if someone can be charged over the initial mine explosion?
  
  7. Is the Ihumātao Committee membership numbers yet complete?
  
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  November 22, 2023 11:36am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    8. Is Willie Jackson still consulting folks on He Puapua?
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/300773028/cogovernance-plan-kicked-down-the-road-to-2024
    
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    November 22, 2023 1:37pm
    - Yvette
      
      No, Maggy, he has apparently done consulting Maori – those that were chosen – and was then trying to knock their response into shape to make at least 20 percent, that he had doubts about – which he had chosen – acceptable enough that his Cabinet colleagues would have considered it.
      
      It is probably good for his wellbeing that he shelved it for the Election
      
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      November 22, 2023 2:15pm
      - Burtland
        
        willies report actually needs to be made public – it would provide some transparency as to what elite maori are thinking
        
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        November 22, 2023 2:41pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  9. Where’s James Shaw. Is he still drawing down his exhorbitant taxpayer funded salary to do sfa?
  
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  November 22, 2023 3:03pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    He’s not big on finishing the job is he (if his academic record is anything to judge by)
    
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    November 22, 2023 4:48pm
Maggie Pie

RANDOM IMPERTINENT QUESTION

Anyone else think Taylor might be lip-syncing?

https://tiktok.com/@notolsennchris/video/7300436485696802091

(full screen/loud as)
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November 22, 2023 10:51am
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  There is something like studio production in that sound, like a voice with is overlaid. i.e. the singer does the same vocal more than once and overlays in the studio. Not uncommon.
  It doesn’t sound like fully live to me, but then again I simply do not see the billion-dollar appeal of ‘Tay-tay’.
  
  One thing some performers do for sure is have the live mic and a play back mix, such as the live mic might be 50% live and 50% playback. That way they can shout “I love you Auckland” and such banalities and then render a fairly perfect replay of what the audience heard on Spotify.
  
  This part-live & part mic technique is used for ‘dance heavy’ type performances too, as the person doesn’t have to be gasping into the mic after performing some heavily choreographed very physical routine. I can sort of understand given that it is hard to do a 45 minute full vocal performance while effectively skip-roping the whole time & with a mic help up to your mouth.
  In conclusion – probably some assistance there; she is a modern pop star.
  
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  November 22, 2023 3:05pm
Tom Hunter

Credit where credit is due to the BBC:

The BBC spells out the concrete evidence for Hamas abusing the Shifa Hospital for military purposes, building tunnels underneath it and abducting hostages into it on October 7.

Of course other parts of the BBC are still in denial:

By contrast, a related story by BBC Jerusalem correspondent Nick Beake tries to make the best of it in the traditional BBC style:

Responding to the video released by Israel, the Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza said it was not able to confirm the authenticity of the footage.

None of this should come as a surprise, as Spiked points out the history:

It gets worse. They’re not only dismissing the discoveries of the past few days but also a truth that’s been known for years: that Hamas, unquestionably, has turned al-Shifa into a hellhole base for its sinister operations. The memory-holing of the historical facts we know about al-Shifa has been extraordinary. You won’t believe Israel? Fine, maybe you’ll believe Amnesty International. It published a long, detailed report about Hamas’s torture of Palestinians during the Israel-Gaza conflict of 2014. That conflict resuscitated Hamas-Fatah civil tensions in Gaza, leading to the commission of ‘serious human-rights abuses’ – including abduction, torture and summary execution – by Hamas terrorists against Palestinians suspected of siding with Fatah.

Where did these crimes take place? Al-Shifa. Hamas used the hospital, ‘including the outpatients’ clinic area’, to ‘detain, interrogate, torture and otherwise ill-treat suspects, even as other parts of the hospital continued to function as a medical centre’, said Amnesty. Got that? The exact thing Israel accuses Hamas of doing was already discovered by Amnesty years ago.

He also links to past reports by PBS, among others and finishes with this scathing assessment:

Scepticism? Please. In instantly disbelieving everything Israel says, these people implicitly buy everything Hamas says. Their Israelophobia translates into a tangible, objective acceptance of Hamas’s own lies about Hamas’s own horrors. The woke love to call themselves anti-fascists, but it’s a strange anti-fascist that gives moral succour to fascists.
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November 22, 2023 11:03am
- Burtland
  
  more evidence that its the wokesters that are down the rabbit hole
  
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  November 22, 2023 2:53pm
Benedict Yu

This makes me angry.

Peter Williams reveals the instructions to school boards about selection criteria for new Principals.

“The most staggering thing about this Criteria is that nowhere is there any mention of an appointed principal being required to improve or maintain education standards and attendance rates…..

“The Eligibility Criteria has four pou. That’s what the document says. There is no translation. I looked it up. Pou means pole, or I suppose, pillar.

The four pou are Pou Tangata, Pou Ako, Pou Tikanga Maori and Pou Mahi. Those are headline topics for each pillar. Helpfully three of them are translated as Leader of People, Leader of Vision for Learning and Leader of Operations. Pou Tikanga Maori has no English translation except to say that a principal will bring “Te Tiriti o Waitangi to life as the founding document of a bicultural Aotearoa New Zealand….

“This pillar then says a principal must “prioritise biculturalism through resourcing and funding” and “show commitment to understanding the impact of colonization on education in Aotearoa.”

https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2023/11/22/peter-williams-what-kind-of-school-principal-do-we-want/

Principals must show a “commitment to understanding the impact of colonization on education in Aotearoa.”

No wonder the education system is collapsing. The new Minister MUST deal to these people swiftly and sharply.
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November 22, 2023 11:13am
- kowtow
  
  Oh well the positive to this is that the incoming govt will easily be able to find a huge amount of useless , nay , counter productive fat to cut from the rotten , bloated carcass of the so called public service.
  
  Here’s hoping.
  
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  November 22, 2023 11:34am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    As I have commented before, Taiwan was ‘colonised’ by Japan for decades. If anyone in Taiwan today blamed ‘colonisation’ for any real or perceived problem, they would be thought insane.
    
    Writing selection criteria for a school principal should be easy. There must be several examples globally. Just pick a few, and cut and paste the best ones. It is not like they are copyright.
    
    This rubbish will have flow on effects. School Boards of Trustees need competent people, and they are scarce. This rubbish would repel such people.
    
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    November 22, 2023 11:50am
    - Arthur Fleck
      
      It is repelling people. I have commented previously on a community engagement meeting initiated by a local primary school being abandoned because of a lack of interest from parents. Everyone knows the kind of crap that they are going to be subjected to and will be forced to pay obeisance to and are staying away because of it.
      
      This disengagement will continue eat away at New Zealand society.
      
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      November 22, 2023 2:04pm
      - Burtland
        
        this is the whole point of this narrative – drive away everyone who disagrees
        
        this is the cancer of neo marxism
        
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        November 22, 2023 3:00pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        A colleague is in involved in the establishment of a new christian state integrated school in Wellington. The planned opening date is Jan 2025. Apparently, places are oversubscribed in every year level, and there is a waiting list in every year level. Lots of interested parents, and no ‘Pou’ in sight.
        
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        November 22, 2023 3:33pm
- imalwaysright
  
  This is utterly sickening .
  Luxon should at first opportunity sack the top ten percent of the ministry.
  If it hasn’t changed by the following Monday then sack the next fifteen percent.
  There should be no maori words in any law or regulation in this country.
  
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  November 22, 2023 12:26pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Unfortunately Ministers do not have the power to dismiss Public Servants. They can, however, take away the money that is used to pay their salaries.
    
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    November 22, 2023 1:01pm
    - Paulus
      
      Many of the Public Service chiefs are woman, recently appointed, and will have huge redundancy provisions with their huge salaries and many like assistants.
      Taxpayers should pay and get rid if them, to be replaced by more women of similar ilk.
      
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      November 22, 2023 1:50pm
      - Burtland
        
        this pipeline is long and convoluted
        – it leads right back to primary school and through to the universities – theres an army of union foot soldiers propping it up
        good luck getting rid of it
        
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        November 22, 2023 3:06pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I’m not so sure about that. Generally, New Zealand public servants don’t have generous redundancy provisions.
        
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        November 22, 2023 3:12pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    He won’t go there, and every possible suggestion he might will be met with administrative state resistance so vehement it would make the airline unions look like cuddly kittens.
    
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    November 22, 2023 3:36pm
- Arthur Fleck
  
  This isn’t going to be turned around. The education sector is filled with either true believers or total cowards.
  
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  November 22, 2023 1:45pm
  - PeeJay
    
    It’s not just the education sector, politically we have real issues.
    
    I hope to be proven wrong on this, but I don’t hold out much hope for National radically changing the course of education in this country.
    
    I’m sure that Stanford, if given the portfolio, will be far more competent than either Tinetti or Hipkins (it would be hard to be worse frankly), but the last three National Education Ministers, Tolley, Parata and Kaye, didn’t exactly leave the education sector in a great place. Competence is certainly a vast improvement on the shambles of Labour, but the education system at all levels is so horribly broken that competent management with some minor reforms is really not enough.
    
    Sincerely hope to be proven wrong though.
    
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    November 22, 2023 3:41pm
  - Arthur Fleck
    
    I want to walk back my previous comment. Total cowards is a bit harsh. The reality is that speaking against this tide will likely cost you your career and see you branded publicly as a racist. The testicular fortitude required to risk it all is in very short supply these days.
    
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    November 22, 2023 4:41pm
- Dave
  
  It’s quite clear that the criteria for eligibility to appointment as a principal were written by people entirely committed to the Ibrahm X Kendi school of anti-racism and decolonising education to achieve equity for two of NZ’s ethnic groups rather than excellence equal to other nations.
  
  As for understanding the impact of colonisation on education in Aotearoa, I suspect that my understanding – colonisation brought up-to-date education in international knowledge which was previously absent – isn’t the right answer.
  
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  November 22, 2023 7:41pm
The Redbaiter

I do not often recommend videos, especially when they are almost an hour long and we are all so pressed for time these days.

However, if you can spare the time, its worth a watch because it is information that every NZer who cares about this country’s dwindling democracy should know.

Damien De Ment has done very good work exposing the network of extreme left radicals hiding within the corridors of government bureaucracies and academia. They are being funded by you, the taxpayer, to carry out their work. You should be outraged that the Ardern govt has been secretly funding such subversive groups.

If you watch the video here, and agree this is a problem that needs fixing, please tell your local MP about it and pressure them into taking action. This stuff will not be exposed by the legacy media. They’re mostly part of the same subversive group.

Its up to us to do something. To fight back. So help awaken the man in the street to what is happening. Spread the word.
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November 22, 2023 11:29am
- kevn
  
  Red…. Look well funded as well. What a legacy.
  
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  November 22, 2023 5:21pm
Jack5

Christchurch Hospital’s car-parking mess seems to be finally over.

A flash new building, and, if you look at the signage shown in the link below, you’ll see how easy they have made to find it.

“Car park” highlighted, perhaps “parking”?

Still there’s a circular blue sign with “P” in it above, for those who cannot read the wording.

https://www.thepress.co.nz/nz-news/350115442/new-christchurch-hospital-car-park-opens?cx_testId=1&cx_testVariant=cx_1&cx_artPos=3#cxrecs_s
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November 22, 2023 11:31am
- Benedict Yu
  
  How stupid.
  
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  November 22, 2023 11:44am
- lifesgood
  
  What the? How on earth would anyone know that’s a car park. It doesn’t even look like one.
  
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  November 22, 2023 12:11pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Imagine a tourist from China, or Germany trying to find the carpark. It is insane.
    
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    November 22, 2023 1:03pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Imagine an Asian tourist trying to park in there 😀
      
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      November 22, 2023 2:49pm
- cmm
  
  “The name Tū Waka-Waipapa was gifted by mana whenua. ”
  
  According to cultural norms, a “gift” requires a reciprocal gift doesn’t it?
  
  I hope the hospital gifted them back a name for a their Marae.
  
  I suspect though it was $.
  
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  November 22, 2023 3:47pm
- krazykiwi
  
  A multi-storied, concrete building filled with 1.5 tonne cars each loaded with petrol and/or lithium… in Christchurch.
  
  What could possibly go wrong?
  
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  November 22, 2023 3:56pm
- MCōs
  
  The car park will be run by Wilsons so I doubt if there will be any problem with signage.
  More to the point it’s 350m away from the hospital. Any hospital I’ve ever been to has parking as part of the complex.
  
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  November 22, 2023 4:09pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Both Auckland and Greenlane Hospital carparks were originally part
    of the complex.
    Didn’t stop them selling the parking off to Wilsons.
    Thieving plicks 🙁
    
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    November 22, 2023 4:23pm
Swifty

Taine Polkinghorne should be sacked from the Human Rights Commission.

Several years ago in his official capacity he was leading the charge calling for trans-women to play in women’s sports, at any level, and suggesting that any opposition to this was transphobic, discriminatory and wrong.

I argue that this was not, as most New Zealanders assumed it to be, the HRC working to protect well-established human rights – no, this was extremist activists in the HRC inventing new supposed rights and attempting to use their official position to impose them on the rest of the country. No discussion, no ‘mature debate’, no “let us leave it to individual sports to decide”, no. It was “Let them play or you are a bigot.”

Following several other sporting organisations recently I see the ICC has come out and determined that trans-women may not play international women’s cricket.

I also note that not once have I seen Taine Polkinghorne, or the HRC, come out and say these organisations are wrong, they’ve in fact gone all quiet on the issue.

Until proven otherwise, I assume that within the HRC they’ve realised that their crusade for extra rights and privileges for trans people, over those for everyone else, was wrong, not in step with the views of the majority of New Zealanders, attempted to take away the rights of sporting bodies to decide these matters for themselves free from labelling, abuse and state pressure – and now choose to shut their traps lest they dig themselves in any deeper.

The NZ HRC is not the sober, balanced, well-researched, august body we thought it was. No, rather it is now an activist’s wet dream. A lefty ideology factory. A taxpayer funded body to live out one’s life’s dreams to magic up extreme, radical, far-left prescriptions and to attempt to impose them on all other New Zealanders, under the guise, the cloak, of ‘human rights’ and fuelled by taxpayer money.

Taine Polkinghorne should be sacked. And immediately following this the HRC should be closed down – having been overtaken by the radical far-left and having betrayed New Zealanders with their extremist positions.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/133326344/auckland-conference-to-promote-lgbtqia-rights-amid-rising-threats-violence

https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2023/nov/21/transgender-players-banned-from-international-womens-cricket-by-icc
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November 22, 2023 11:54am
- mandk
  
  Trans-women are like unicorns – they don’t exist.
  
  But there are biological men who identify as women.
  
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  November 22, 2023 12:22pm
  - Ghost
    
    Trans woman is right. That’s what most see themselves as, a Trans woman, not a woman. It’s the current lot of paid disrupter activists that think they’re actual woman and not Trans woman
    
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    November 22, 2023 12:28pm
- Taieri
  
  Taine Polkinghorne should be sacked from the Human Rights Commission
  —————
  
  The whole Human Rights Commission should be dispensed with as it serves no useful purpose.
  
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  November 22, 2023 12:46pm
I remember when

Student claims academic a ‘transphobic bigot’ in defamation case – judge suggests allegations ‘vexatious’: NZ Herald.
“While the civil case is in its early stages – and will be called again in December – the judge said it was – his ‘very clear view’ that there was ‘no proper fatual basis advanced’ for the student’s claims the academic committed a criminal offence.
The stadent also told the court the academic ‘does not possess the intellectual comprehension to understand the fact that (they are) a morally corrupt transphobic bigot and hates me for standing up to (their) tirade of discrimatory attacks upon my character in a manner that does not enable (them) to continue (their) attempts to make me out to be a violent and aggressive person.’
The judge said, ‘The allegations generally, and the overall tenor of (the student’s) pleading and evidence, are strongly suggestive of a proceeding that is vexatious and frivolous.”
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November 22, 2023 12:00pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Vexatious and frivolous almost succinctly summarises the woke left in a nutshell.
  
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  November 22, 2023 12:27pm
Maggie Pie

Rumor from the Viaduct …David to take Justice.
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November 22, 2023 12:55pm
Swifty

There were chilling and extremely dangerous statements made by The Maori Party in the lead up to the election that didn’t receive any scrutiny in our news media whatsoever.

Waititi, in response to questions of why people should vote for the Maori Party, said,

“Everyone is welcome to the gate of our marae. You don’t have to be Māori, you can be anybody. Nau mai, haere mai, we will welcome you, we will feed you, we will house you, we will care for you.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rotorua-daily-post/news/election-2023-te-pati-maori-candidate-for-waiariki-electorate-rawiri-waititi/VH52X77NIFBJPH3AMXURYRY4MY/

Waititi also said,

“What does a Te Tiriti-centric Aotearoa look like? It looks like how they will treat you in a marae, we will welcome you, we will feed you, we will house you, we will love you.”

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/493700/te-pati-maori-says-they-will-push-for-capital-gains-tax-at-party-launch

When I had left school and was ready to vote for the first time, and politician mouthing these words would have received a very warm reception from me. What’s not to like? He or she must genuinely care for us and, isn’t that the job of politicians – to take care of all of us? To protect us from life’s trials and tribulations?

Now, with 40 years having gone by, I realise fully how wrong, naive and simple-minded my youthful self would have been.

Unopposed, politicians of the likes of Waititi, Ngarewa-Packer and enabled by the Fagin-like Tamihere, would establish themselves in positions where they are in charge of delivering to people their needs. The ‘state’ would take on what traditionally the vast majority of people have taken care of themselves – that of housing, clothing, feeding etc them and their families.

It’s plainly obvious that the Maori Party folk believe we would all be far better to have them doing it all, fuelled and enabled of course by taxpayer money.

They don’t want an independent, resourceful nation of people looking after these things for themselves, oh no, they want a country where the state provides it all. As a result, they clearly believe everyone dependent of the state (or in fact the Maori Party) to be a desirable thing. Superior to the status quo. Something to be worked towards.

I say no. I say to New Zealanders, and especially Maori New Zealanders, that they should run a mile from any politician who promises them these things. Not only is it a sign of demagoguery on the promiser’s part, all the evidence of the 20th Century tells us that it is a road to ruin, and that the end of that road will see us as peasants dependent on the whims and vagaries of of the politicians currently holding office – as those who have the power to give us those things, also have the power to take them away. It will also prove a massively corrupting influence of state systems, organisations and officers.

I’m some ways I’m actually quite grateful to Waititi et al for giving me such a clear insight into their thinking and aspirations for all of us. It has helped me to realise that he is now my implacable political enemy. An enemy who wishes to turn us all into a child-like dependent mass, ever grateful for the for gifts and comforts benevolently bestowed upon us by the likes of Waititi, Ngarewa-Packer and Tamihere, without which we cannot survive (and of course with their rellies and mates fully established as ‘service providers’ clipping the ticket on the delivery of all that food, housing, food etc).

If the last six years have taught us anything it is of the absolute dangerousness of politicians who come along promising everything, but ultimately delivering nothing.

We should run a mile from them. We must not fall for their blandishments, no matter how superficially attractive. They would have us as their vassals, dependent on them for everything.
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November 22, 2023 12:57pm
- Ghost
  
  To me the most dangerous statement he made to try and gain votes was to stand up in parliament and breach name suppression. There should be no place in parliament for someone who does that.
  
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  November 22, 2023 1:10pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Good comment. People who sacrifice personal agency for some promised ease deserve all the hardship they should have known was coming.
  
  The inflection point is when these people outnumber the rest at which point neo-Marxist hell becomes an inexorable destination for all.
  
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  November 22, 2023 1:24pm
  - cmm
    
    That agency has been destroyed by years of schooling and blaming colonialism.
    
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    November 22, 2023 3:43pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Agreed. It is every thinking person’s job to fix that, surely?
      
      Speaking of which, let’s watch Argentina. Lots of state welfare turkeys have just voted for a real Christmas
      
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      November 22, 2023 5:15pm
- Dave
  
  This is one of the three general principles of the ToW – partnership, participation and active protection, attractive to my much younger self, but debilitating to society.
  
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  November 22, 2023 8:10pm
Swifty

Jacob Rees-Mogg out debated by a reasoned, evidence-fuelled, calm and steely-nerved Stop Oil spokesman:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6uMvV5AyiVs

Just kidding.
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November 22, 2023 1:37pm
JerJer

https://www.thepress.co.nz/nz-news/350115949/ara-te-pukenga-reinstates-high-level-reo-maori-courses-after-backlash?cx_testId=1&cx_testVariant=cx_1&cx_artPos=2&utm_source=localised_module#cxrecs_s

Great thinking. Polytech cancels Maori courses due to lack of interest. Rabble protests because of lack of equity. Polytech caves and re-instates classes no-one cares about, much less wants to attend or pay for. Money wasted. Great job. Easy pickings for money saving for new Govt. All these courses should be cancelled immeadiately if no-one is interested. It is fine (well actually it’s not) to try to force feed primary students this rubbish, but when people grow up they think it is all crap and pointless nonsenses, and here is a prime example of that thinking in action.
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November 22, 2023 1:58pm
- cmm
  
  They even create false interest.
  For example, my engineer son was forced to take a Maori cultural awareness course a few years back.
  
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  November 22, 2023 3:41pm
BeaB

Have we really descended into a squabble between two men a minority voted for about who is going to be Deputy Prime Minister?
Good for Nicola telling us she’s not in the pissing contest.
What a prize! The new Kelvin Davis!
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November 22, 2023 2:04pm
- JerJer
  
  Kelvin Davis was a thicket, token Māori appointment. Winston and David are also both Māori but not of the thicket or token kind. So, it’s not really the same.
  
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  November 22, 2023 2:28pm
- greybeard
  
  Kelvin Davis was without peer as Deputy Leader of the Labour Party .
  Honestly.
  
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  November 22, 2023 2:33pm
  - mandk
    
    If Davis had a brain, he would be dangerous.
    
    To misquote Dryden slightly:
    
    “Kelvin alone, of all MPs is he,
    Who stands confirm’d in full stupidity.”
    
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    November 22, 2023 4:32pm
Sparrow

Could somebody please explain why is Nicola Willis the next Minister of Finance as she appears to have no financial qualifications or experience in that field. According to Wikipedia she has a degree in English Lit and a diploma in journalism. Then from varsity straight to becoming an advisor to English and Key. Subsequently having senior management roles at Frontera without explaining what they were.
Quite rightly Labour was criticised for having inexperienced student Ministers whats the difference here ? I am not criticising Nicola as I have found her impressive and a potential future leader but does not the party of business have a more qualified person to fill this important role ? Thankfully they have a highly qualified person in Dr. Reti to fill the Minister of Health role. Just wondering nodoubt Nat supporters will put me right.
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November 22, 2023 2:26pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  I have commented on this before. A degree in economics is not a prerequisite for being a successful Finance Minister. Before my time, but looking back, Bill Birch was a successful Finance Minister. He was a surveyor.
  
  Look at Australia. Paul Keating was probably the most transformative Treasurer in the history of Australia. He left school at 15. Peter Walsh was a brilliant Finance Minister. He was a wheat farmer. Peter Costello in the Howard Government was a successful Treasurer for more than a decade (1996 – 2007). He was a lawyer.
  
  Back to New Zealand – Roger Douglas was an accountant. That would have helped him understand Crown Financial Statements. However IMO it would have had little bearing on his success in transforming New Zealand.
  
  I don’t know whether Nicola Willis will be a success. We will need to wait and see.
  
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  November 22, 2023 3:22pm
  - cmm
    
    ” He was a surveyor.”
    Surveyors have an extremely good head for numbers. They are experts in measuring stuff, doing calculations and build an excellent judgement with complex calculations.
    
    “He was a wheat farmer.”
    Farmers need to be excellent at financial management, accounting etc. Farms are multi-million-dollar businesses.
    Think of all the thinking and calculations that just needs to go into answering a question like: should we buy a new combine harvester this year or wait two more years?
    
    ” Roger Douglas was an accountant. ”
    
    Accountants do more than book keeping. They advise their clients on the best ways to structure their business to make the most of leasing, tax management, etc etc.
    
    All of these are excellent training for a minister of finance.
    
    Nicola’s skills would seem to be very light relative to this.
    
    Yes, she gave Fonterra some advice, but what on? Fonterra gets advise on everything from PR and advertising to accounting, business, chemistry and growing grass.
    
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    November 22, 2023 3:38pm
  - kevn
    
    BY… She came across credibly in the pre-election debates with robberson.
    
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    November 22, 2023 5:24pm
    - cmm
      
      A clockwork chook would come across well pitted against Robbo.
      
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      November 22, 2023 8:01pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  I dunno, her predecessor as National’s finance spokesperson was a hagiographer, Paul Goldsmith.
  
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  November 22, 2023 4:54pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Oh dear, Bob Jones won’t be happy. I’m sure he has been aware of this for a long time.
Wellington dole queues will be long. Yes, the Public Sector will be culled. IMO culled by 70%.
Sad? No it’s not. These leeches have done nothing for decades, let alone the staff increase in the last six years.
Bye!

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/civil-servant-cull-looming-cbre-study-on-possible-government-moves/ar-AA1kjsPb?
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November 22, 2023 3:00pm
- Burtland
  
  the whole country will be able to enjoy the squealing
  
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  November 22, 2023 3:29pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Bob Jones will be both elated for one reason and delated for another. You know which ones for which.
  
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  November 22, 2023 3:32pm
- MCōs
  
  Over the years I worked in innumerable different offices from the MOW, before it was abolished, to two people outfits
  It was notable that the bigger the organization the more bureaucratic they were of necessity.
  The bureaucratics, pretty much by definition are not productive so why not send them all down the road and distribute their work among those remaining?
  I guess we’re going to find out
  
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  November 22, 2023 3:36pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    OH! The Public Sector will be culled?
    Sad. What did they do? Please tell us MCos.
    
    2 1
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    November 22, 2023 5:30pm
    - MCōs
      
      Structural draughtsman, steel detailer, project manager wrangling others doing the grunt work.
      Quite ‘interesting’ conducting meetings with fabricators in Phoenix who didn’t know noon over there was 2am in Bangkok
      
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      November 22, 2023 6:17pm
- cmm
  
  Oh bugger, mma will have more time to troll…
  
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  November 22, 2023 3:39pm
- kevn
  
  SteveO… There will be long term water-tight leases in place.
  
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  November 22, 2023 5:25pm
cmm

According to the Herald, global warming is to blame for reductions in male fertility.

I don’t think so. Where is the most fertile part of the planet? Africa, followed by many tropical countries. All hot as hell.

Far more likely issues:
* Ugly climate change goblins like Greta are turning men off committed relationships.
* Waiting until later in life to breed.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-listener/health/concerns-climate-change-contributing-to-alarming-decline-in-male-fertility/VSM6IY6UCBHW7JVYUMZIDEURZ4/
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November 22, 2023 3:29pm
- MCōs
  
  The article is in the Listener
  
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  November 22, 2023 3:42pm
Swifty

More politicisation of our once neutral public service by the vile left:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uP8UdlHHFhk

The left have betrayed New Zealanders. Now they are openly gate-keeping important civil service roles through the use of political criteria to screen out those of unacceptable (to the left) political positions.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uP8UdlHHFhk

It’s now as clear as clear can be. The left wish total control of our institutions and will use any means to ensure only people with acceptable views, i.e. matching the left, can seek civil service employment in New Zealand.

Only lefties will be eligible for public service in New Zealand.

“Righties keep out, the civil service is ours. Your role is to go away and create the wealth to pay for it all – and don’t come here looking for a job, those will remain exclusively ours.”

Well there you have it – see how far and well the termites have feasted.
9 4
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November 22, 2023 3:32pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Yawn, Sean Plunket again?
  So, the ministry of education is consulting on proposed appointment criteria. Critics seems upset that a school leader in Aotearoa should be knowledgeable about such things as tikanga Māori, the treaty of Waitangi and colonization.
  Truly a pearl-clutching moment.
  Have you checked for the reds under the beds?
  
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  November 22, 2023 5:06pm
  - Swifty
    
    That’s not what was asked.
    
    You have misrepresented it.
    
    Why am I not surprised?
    
    Did you even watch the piece? Or are you just attacking Plunket and not addressing the issue?
    
    10 1
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    November 22, 2023 5:16pm
  - Swifty
    
    “Critics seems upset that a school leader in Aotearoa should be knowledgeable about such things as tikanga Māori, the treaty of Waitangi and colonization…..”
    
    Versus:
    
    “commitment to understanding the impact of colonization on education in Aotearoa.”
    
    These things are not the same. And Mike knows it.
    
    4 1
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    November 22, 2023 6:02pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      From the free speech union release:
      
      ‘Understanding the impact of colonisation on education in Aotearoa’, ‘Respecting and integrating kaupapa Maori and tikanga Maori’ and ‘being a leader who brings Te Tiriti o Waitangi to life in the school, as the founding document of a bicultural Aotearoa New Zealand’.
      
      Why are you wrong about so many things
      
      0 3
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      November 22, 2023 7:11pm
      - Swifty
        
        Thanks for proving my point.
        
        Cheers.
        
        2 1
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        November 22, 2023 8:19pm
- MCōs
  
  The “Aotearoa New Zealand Principal Eligibility Criteria” is a draft out for discussion
  The only legal requirement for appointment as a principal was being a registered teacher who holds a current practicing certificate.
  https://www.education.govt.nz/our-work/legislation/education-and-training-act-2020/school-principal-appointment-criteria/
  
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  November 22, 2023 5:36pm
  - Swifty
    
    The authors clearly think it right and proper that aspiring principals demonstrate a clear commitment to political viewpoints – that of the damaging effects of colonisation but nothing of corresponding benefits of colonisation.
    
    Consulting on the draft is a legal requirement forced upon them. You just know however that if consultation wasn’t forced this criteria will show up in the final version.
    
    Hell, it may still do.
    
    5 1
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    November 22, 2023 5:54pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      It refers to the ‘impacts’ of colonization.
      
      0 2
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      November 22, 2023 7:12pm
      - Swifty
        
        Hahahahaha!
        
        We all know what that’s code for.
        
        The glories of western civilisation it ain’t.
        
        2 1
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        November 22, 2023 8:18pm
Arthur Fleck

Had to sidestep a fistfight that broke out on the steps of the Wellington Railway Station at around lunchtime today. Two derelicts decided it was an appropriate place for a throwdown. To be precise, she landed multiple punches to his face. To his credit, he didn’t throw any back. But there was a lot of foul-mouthed screaming at the top of their lungs that followed. Wellington is such a delight these days.
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November 22, 2023 4:58pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Labor called it…..”Cultural enrichment” 😀
  
  7 1
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  November 22, 2023 5:52pm
- MCōs
  
  Shock Horror
  That’s life in the big city.
  
  I was staggering along on crutches in Mangere Bridge the other day when my way was blocked by a guy with a gang patch with his back to me blocking out the sun
  Here’s a go, I thought
  Excuse me, mate
  Sorry, bro, he said, stepping to one side
  
  8 4
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  November 22, 2023 5:55pm
  - Arthur Fleck
    
    “That’s life in a shit city.”
    
    FIFY
    
    2 1
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    November 22, 2023 6:17pm
Swifty

When people assert that Maori have a even more special relationship to the land and seas than others, make excellent custodians, always act in the long term interest of the environment and would never offend the environment’s wairua – on what evidence do they make these claims?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/503007/man-jailed-over-poaching-crayfish-from-reserve

If I post 50, 100, 200 or even more news articles where Maori have broken fisheries rules, at what point should we admit that, no, actually Maori left to their own devices are no better or worse than the rest of us and many will actively plunder our resources for their personal benefit?
13 1
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November 22, 2023 5:12pm
- krazykiwi
  
  I’ll see your poaching crays, and raise you the extinction of Moa and clear felling Totara from the Hutt valley (and that’s nowhere near all in)
  
  9 1
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  November 22, 2023 5:52pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    You think Māori cleared the whole Hutt Valley?
    
    2 1
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    November 22, 2023 7:14pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Yes. It was estimated that when Maori arrived the entire valley was Totora and the birdsong would have been deafening. By the time Europeans arrived the valley had been predominantly felled. Great waka material, good river connecting to an enclosed harbour. What’s not to like?
      
      2 1
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      November 22, 2023 9:15pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Rubbish. When the Europeans arrived, the birdsong along the river was deafening. The most common occupation on the Hutt jury lists until the 1860s was ‘sawyer’.
        
        0 0
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        November 23, 2023 6:57am
Swifty

Thanks heavens we’ve got that veteran, seasoned politician, the MP for Tijuana, giving us insights into the behind-closed-doors coalition negotiations.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301012892/live-peters-and-seymour-scrapping-over-deputy-pm-role-green-mp-says

I’m also grateful to him for helping me understand that parties will negotiate for positions which maximise the likelihood that their policy prescriptions can be implemented.

//
10 1
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November 22, 2023 5:25pm
- Ghost
  
  A nobody makes a comment on politics. But he is right imagine taking 6 weeks to elect a leader that was already leader, 6 weeks when there is nothing important to sort out like how to govern the country for the next 3 weeks.
  
  4 5
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  November 22, 2023 5:30pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    So they just jump in and start fighting? Best man alive is the winner?
    Nonsense Ghost, people are laughing at you – a person that does make good comments. 🙂
    
    6 3
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    November 22, 2023 5:35pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Did you read the article in The Horrid, SteveO?
      
      “Marama and I will lead the Green Party into a position where it will be able to shape the next government”
      
      God that Shaw talks some sh*t!
      
      11 1
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      November 22, 2023 5:49pm
      - Ghost
        
        Bloody joke that he is commenting when you look at that, 6 weeks to re-elect the same leader, that is a joke
        
        4 2
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        November 22, 2023 5:58pm
    - Ghost
      
      Suggest you read the article Steve, and then you might understand my comment is about Menéndez whinging when it took his own party 6 weeks to re-elect the same leader. He’s a nobody, but you seem to like him I guess
      
      7 1
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      November 22, 2023 6:37pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I thought it was nonsense from “a person that does make good comments.”
        
        0 1
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        November 23, 2023 7:52am
  - Ghost
    
    Looks like the Mexican has two friends who think he isn’t a nobody, did you vote greens Steve?
    
    3 2
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    November 22, 2023 5:48pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I detest all of the commie Greens.
      
      0 1
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      November 23, 2023 7:53am
  - Ghost
    
    3 weeks should be 3 years
    
    2 1
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    November 22, 2023 5:50pm
Ghost

Not sure I’d trust them, be very careful with the returned hostages

Israel approved a deal with Hamas to temporarily pause fighting in the Gaza Strip in exchange for the release of at least 50 of the 240 Israeli hostages held inside the enclave, the Israeli government said in a statement announcing the deal.

The agreement on Wednesday, which Israeli leaders had resisted despite mounting pressure from hostage families and international allies, particularly the United States, marks the first cessation of a six-week air and ground assault that has killed more than 11,000 Gazans and displaced hundreds of thousands more.

Article
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November 22, 2023 5:57pm
Ghost

Damn, this is stupid. This waste is getting out of hand

Watercare has defended paying for daily Subway meals for all employees working in Auckland.

Amid discussions on AM earlier on Wednesday about the NZ Transport Agency Waka Kotahi offering free pies to employees working on the Mt Messenger bypass project, a Watercare worker emailed the show saying they too were provided with free lunch – theirs being a daily meal from fast food giant Subway.

Article
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November 22, 2023 6:03pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Mark Bourne said the Subway meals were not paid from Council Rates. True.
  They are paid from WATER RATES! Don’t be so bloody dodgey Bourne.
  My Water Rates average $120 per month.
  
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  November 23, 2023 7:59am
Swifty

“We are here to kill white people.”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12776141/Gang-launched-savage-knife-attack-French-villages-winter-ball-killing-boy-16-injuring-17-told-guests-stab-white-people-rampage.html

In rural France.
4 1
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November 22, 2023 6:18pm
- Ghost
  
  Europe is in a war that they caused by allowing these people into the country. It’s going to get much worse
  
  6 1
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  November 22, 2023 6:27pm
  - kevn
    
    Ghost… A lot of the trouble makers are from the French colonies in North Africa. Citizens in other words.
    
    2 1
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    November 22, 2023 7:08pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Wasting money on feeding their workers.
  
  0 6
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  November 22, 2023 7:16pm
  - Swifty
    
    Doh!
    
    1 0
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    November 22, 2023 8:16pm
  - Ghost
    
    I think Mike you need to realise the vast majority of New Zealanders buy their own lunch, not supplied by the company. Wtf should ratepayers and taxpayers pay for people’s lunches. People aren’t an open wallet for your type to keep stealing from.
    
    1 1
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    November 22, 2023 10:06pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Mike does not think like Private Sector people – he can’t.
      
      0 2
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      November 23, 2023 8:02am
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/301013329/female-dilworth-teacher-deregistered-after-having-sex-with-students
We get all the details of the offender’s sex and ethnicity, including photos, when a European (white) person is involved: why not the same amount of detail when babies are murdered, or “famous sportspeople” commit crimes, or ferals wearing ankle bracelets commit crimes ?
4 2
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November 22, 2023 6:20pm
- Ghost
  
  It’s not uncommon to get the information with teachers. Here’s the Māori teacher that stuff hired, and I think fired once the story broke
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300919846/teacher-at-elite-girls-school-had-sexual-relationship-with-16yearold-student
  
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  November 22, 2023 6:25pm
CAKE FACE1

Two days after Brenton Tarrant’s terrorist attack, Cindy Ardern said in a press conference:

“I was one of more than 30 recipients of a manifesto that was mailed out nine minutes before the attack took place. It did not include a location, it did not include specific details.”

Is this statement correct?

The manifesto not include the locations of the attack?
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November 22, 2023 7:10pm
- kevn
  
  Cake… Always good to ask the question when you know the answer.
  
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  November 22, 2023 7:48pm
  - CAKE FACE1
    
    kevn,
    
    I honestly don’t know for sure. I have tried googling this issue and reading the wiki page, but it still isn’t clear to me if the email manifesto did have the locations of the attacks, or not.
    
    If Ardern’s statement was correct, I have no further questions.
    
    If Ardern’s statement was false, I would like further information.
    
    Can anyone help?
    
    1 0
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    November 22, 2023 8:03pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      CAKE, ping me if you still have my email addr
      
      0 0
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      November 22, 2023 9:30pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

So, the talk is that child and female hostages will be prioritised for release by Hamas.

Children, yep, get that, right & proper.

But prioritising female hostages over male? C’mon guys, this is the 21st century!
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November 22, 2023 8:15pm
- H. Upmann
  
  Hamas and fellow travelers are still stuck in the 7th century.
  
  2 0
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  November 22, 2023 8:47pm

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