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November 18, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 18 November 2023

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General Debate

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Benedict Yu

This is annoying.

The Federation of Islamic Associations of New Zealand has called on the Government to expel Israel’s Ambassador to New Zealand.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/11/federation-of-islamic-associations-of-new-zealand-calls-for-expulsion-of-israeli-ambassador.html

After the Christchurch terror attack, the Muslim community received overwhelming moral and material support from the New Zealand people and the Government. Notably, the New Zealand Jewish community offered considerable support.

“The New Zealand Jewish community decided to shut its synagogues on Shabbat for the first time ever in an act of solidarity with the Muslim community in the country in the wake of the slaying of at least 49 people at two mosques in Christchurch.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-solidarity-with-muslims-nz-jews-shut-synagogues-on-shabbat-for-first-time/

Yet when hundreds of Israelis are massacred by terrorists, this Islamic Federation blames the victims.

Sean Plunket has some strong views on the subject.

https://youtu.be/–AkI1iYKG8?si=Xx8fWqmxjucuX9kW
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November 18, 2023 8:01am
- Cassandra
  
  We all should have “strong views on this subject”. As a group Moslems internationally seem to unite regardless of the appalling actions of some of their members. Australians should praise whatisname as a hero/martyr? Islam, rightly, would be horrified. But where’s the criticism of Hamas? And not just re October 7 – Hamas has been terrorising Israel and Gaza for 20 years.
  
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  November 18, 2023 8:06am
  - Notsofast
    
    Ex Muslim females have the authentic voice, listen to all you can, like this withering attack on the cult of Islam by Ayaan Hirsi Ali and a medical student who happens to be lesbian.
    
    https://youtu.be/PfsQNqBXD18?si=-QE-oMGSOl9rzkKU
    
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    November 18, 2023 11:03am
- krazykiwi
  
  Plunket was about as scathing as I’ve ever heard him. Both barrels. More power to him.
  
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  November 18, 2023 8:07am
  - KiwiSapper
    
    I totally agree with him and the views he expressed. The attitudes and actions of “Islamic organisations” and their adherants cause me to view Islam as a threat to my way of life here in New Zealand and accordingly, distance myself from their “peaceful religion.”.
    
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    November 18, 2023 8:38am
    - David Garrett
      
      Kiwi: Great to see Plunket – at the end – calling Islam for what it is: a primitive and violent cult whose members should fuck off back to whatever sandy shithole they came from if they continue to express attitudes totally incompatible with our way of life.
      
      I have of course been saying the same thing for years…
      
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      November 18, 2023 10:59am
    - Paulus
      
      But as we now know the Islamic organisations and all those who are party to it are always right throughout the World.
      Being a Moslem makes you a party to it anyway as the Koran tells them.
      Like Socialists
      
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      November 18, 2023 11:07am
- MCōs
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  You’re talking about two different things
  The Israeli government doesn’t represent Jews who live in NZ.
  
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  November 18, 2023 8:19am
  - Philview
    
    What is happening in Israel is a complex historical business so I try not to comment on it. However when the likes of the Green Party of NZ start using that situation to spread hate and anti semitic rhetoric here in New Zealand it is a different matter. We have a small Jewish population in this country who are no doubt feeling vulnerable. People of an anti semitic nature are certainly using this crisis to push concerning agendas.
    
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    November 18, 2023 8:38am
    - imalwaysright
      
      We should stay out of it and work on solutions to our own problems.
      
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      November 18, 2023 10:40am
      - leoj
        
        The gutless option….
        
        We should support Israel’s right to defend itself.
        
        Hamas calling for a cease fire when there was one on October 6th. Guess who broke it?
        
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        November 18, 2023 10:57am
      - imalwaysright
        
        L
        I’m sure if there were a Purple Heart emoji you would have at least two.
        
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        November 18, 2023 11:37am
      - Kiwiguy
        
        Haven’t you noticed the pro-Palestine protests in NZ? And the debacle at the Ak Museum? I could go on…
        The problem, is already in NZ. It’s already our problem. Wake up.
        
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        November 18, 2023 11:51am
      - Che Guava
        
        “Haven’t you noticed the pro-Palestine protests in NZ? And the debacle at the Ak Museum? I could go on…The problem, is already in NZ. It’s already our problem. Wake up.”
        
        How are pro-Palestinian protests in NZ a problem? The first principle seems to be if Israel is being criticised, this is intolerable. Why? If you’d believed the rhetoric, you’d think that an increase in negative attitudes towards Jews was more horrific than Israel’s military incursion into Gaza. Doesn’t this speak to the nature of the political hierarchy, when Jews being made to feel uncomfortable is considered horrendous?
        
        I don’t support the multiculturalism project, but of all its myriad consequences, protests against the actions of Israel are near the bottom of my list of concerns.
        
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        November 18, 2023 4:35pm
  - Prince
    
    But the NZ Government does ? Then why punish them for being massacred in their homeland ?
    
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    November 18, 2023 9:12am
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    You are right Mcos – but neither does this small radical group calling for the ambassador to be expelled represent the majority of NZers. They are not us!
    
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    November 18, 2023 11:46am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Does the NZ Islamic Federation call on Egypt to open its border crossing with Gaza? If not, why not?
  
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  November 18, 2023 8:34am
  - coge
    
    Who exactly does the Islamic Federation of NZ represent? Are they predominantly Shia?
    
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    November 18, 2023 10:34am
  - David Garrett
    
    Nevermind: Excellent question…as is the wider question: why is Egypt so reluctant to take in their fellow Arabs, the Palestinians? Does anyone know the answer to that glaringly obvious question?
    
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    November 18, 2023 11:04am
    - Ian Boag
      
      There are 2 million of them.
      
      Aside from the logistics of housing/feeding that many, Egypt has its own internal struggles with disparate political (religious) groups.
      
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      November 18, 2023 12:03pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Egypt has a population 110 million and plenty of land. Yes they have their own problems, but we’re constantly told that Palestinians are god-fearing (as long as it’s the right god) innocents who just want to live in peace, in a sandy shit-hole. Egypt sounds perfect for them.
        
        In all seriousness, it’s a good question – why haven’t Muslim countries taken in the millions of fighting-age “refugees” from Syria, Lebanon, Palestine and various other places? My understanding is that the total number of refugees taken in by those countries still stands at zero.
        
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        November 19, 2023 3:34am
    - krazykiwi
      
      I’d suggest that the Muslim world has historically like the existence Palestinian grievance for us as a political weapon against Israel, but the just don’t like Palestinian people themselves, historically poor tenement farmers who have long been treated with disdain by their fellow Arabs… hence the glaring lack of any Arab country offering them residency. The Arab world is intensely tribal, and Palestinians are the untouchables.
      
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      November 18, 2023 12:42pm
    - virtualmark
      
      Reason 1: The Palestinians attempted coups in Jordan and Lebanon, and they cheered on Saddam Hussein in Kuwait. So no Arab country wants them as a destabilising force in their country.
      
      Reason 2: The Palestinians are heavily funded by Iran and Qatar, who the rest of the Arabs don’t trust (go back and read reason 1).
      
      Reason 3: The Arabs find it politically useful to have the Palestinians as permanently aggrieved “victims of the Jews”.
      
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      November 18, 2023 3:28pm
    - Che Guava
      
      It’s OK. We in the West will be forced to take in the Palestinians and the other Arabs displaced by Israel, just like we always have done for the last 20 years.
      
      Where do you think these Arabs come from in the first place? Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and all the other places that have been the scene of wars or incursions for the benefit of Israel. If nothing else, the influx of immigrants Israel is directly responsible for is reason enough to oppose Israel’s plans for the region. They force them out, we take them in. Seems like a bad deal to me.
      
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      November 18, 2023 4:40pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Where do you think these Arabs come from in the first place?
        
        Many are the descendants of people ejected by Israeli forces in 1948. Just saying ….
        any
        
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        November 18, 2023 7:05pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    This has had me perplexed, If the Egyptians open there Southern Border then, Where the hell can they Go ?
    
    Its a big Giant Sand Pit called the Sinai.
    
    I’m sure Mohammad the Camel Seller will be doing a roaring Business //.
    
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    November 18, 2023 11:31am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Please point me to the statement from the Federation of Islamic Associations of New Zealand that ‘blames the victims’.
  
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  November 18, 2023 8:34am
  - KiwiSapper
    
    How about just concentrate on the “The Federation of Islamic Associations of New Zealand has called on the Government to expel Israel’s Ambassador to New Zealand.”
    
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    November 18, 2023 8:41am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Why else would they be calling for the expulsion of the Israeli Ambassador? I have not seen any statement from the Federation condemning the terrorist attack by the Hamas terrorists. Why have they not welcomed the intent by Israel to wipe out the Hamas terrorists? Given their experience in Christchurch, I would expect them to thank the Israeli Ambassador and ask him to pass on their thanks for the brave actions of Israeli soldiers.
    
    The Federation refuses to criticise Hamas. I recall that in 2021, many of their members walked out of a conference on counter terrorism because a Jewish speaker described Hamas as “a terrorist group”.
    
    https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/06/15/christchurchs-muslim-community-walk-out-of-counter-terrorism-hui-to-protest-hurtful-speech/
    
    So no, they did not say “we blame the victims”. However they refuse to blame the terrorists. It amounts to the same thing.
    
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    November 18, 2023 9:00am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Thanks for agreeing that they didn’t blame the victims.
      
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      November 18, 2023 9:05am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        You’re right of course. The Federation wants to expel the Israeli Ambassador so that he or she isn’t exposed to the delusional rantings of brain-dead terrorist apologists and sympathisers, such as you. Clearly.
        
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        November 19, 2023 3:52am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I just put Sean Plunket’s post on Facebook.
  How long will it last, and will I go to jail?
  They have been covering a lot of my posts, even factual ones about Covid. It had plenty of factual links but FB said ‘inaccurate’ based on one reply that called it inaccurate.
  
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  November 18, 2023 9:50am
  - David Garrett
    
    Steve O: Facebook…why on earth do you bother with such an inane medium? Other than during my time as an MP when I was given no choice, I have never been on Facebook, and I never intend to be.
    
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    November 18, 2023 11:08am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Our Alaskan host families are on there, about 11 of them at different times.
      Anchorage had 30 inches of snow the other day. I saw a video of Jayson clearing driveways, including the workshop. It’s cold but they don’t stop work until it is about zero F.
      Just fun stuff with lovely people, and watching the little one (now 6, half Alaskan half Thai.) grow up.
      
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      November 18, 2023 12:00pm
- JimBobJoe
  
  Good on Sean for calling it out… but in the long run means squat. Islamist dont care what you think or say. And the NZ government wont do anything either
  
  Saudi Arabia fund Wahabi Imams in to the country to preach their hate against Jews. One of them got caught out making hate statements about Jews in a public space
  
  I have worked with a few Muslims: all pretty nice people. But I work in a high tech area and I meet highly educated and cosmopolitan Muslims.
  
  The base hate of the West and Jews is baked into fundamentalist/Salafist Muslim world view… its not going away, reformation has already happen in Islam – its called Salafism and its made the religion more fundamentalist not less…
  
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  November 18, 2023 11:38am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  I note a photo of a sneering Hipkins handing $5 mill to an empty hole saying it’s for Gaza, West Bank. Israel, it’s worded as if it’s going to Israel, but I bet this money is going to the terror regime.
  
  Why is this past government delivering tax payer money with gay abandon, I note Mahuta gave $5 mill to an earthquake hit country after she was actually ousted from parliament.
  
  Yes I realise they are in a caretaker roll, but they should not be handing money out to anyone
  
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  November 18, 2023 12:18pm
- Che Guava
  
  Looked at one way, Jews showing solidarity with Muslims after Christchurch was in collective Jewish interests, given that, as minorities themselves, Jews in Western countries benefit from multiculturalism and the absence of a core majority identity around which society revolves.
  
  As Christchurch was an anti-multiculturalism act, Jews would naturally see benefit in upholding multicultural values and thus showing outward support for Muslims in New Zealand.
  
  But when it comes to their Israel, they ain’t showing Muslims much sympathy in 2023, because that isn’t in the Jewish collective interest. Case in point, they aren’t closing their synagogues in solidarity with the Muslims being killed in Gaza.
  
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  November 18, 2023 2:42pm
- Ra Henare
  
  BY. You fall in to the trap of equating
  The Federation of Islamic Associations of New Zealand
  with Muslims.
  
  Cast your mind back to 3 waters when Local Government NZ, supported it but most thinking NZs didnt.
  
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  November 18, 2023 3:00pm
krazykiwi

In battle, every loss of a soldier increases the risk to his/her peers, and lowers the capacity of the force to execute it’s plan and/or to maintain readiness. So it was odd when in December 2021 the US armed forced began dismissing military staff for their refusal to take Covid-19 jabs, that Marine Corps Lt. Gen. David Ottignon stepped up and told lawmakers “I can tell you there are no operational impacts across the force for readiness”.

How many servicepeople were discharged? 8,339, which is three times the number killed in Afghanistan. Remember… no operational impacts. Riiiight.

Since this time signups have been well below target as the predominantly young, male cohort has been staying away in droves. Who would have thought, eh?

Backed into a corner of their own making, the US armed forces are now begging for these people to return, and volunteering to correct their service records by removing dishonourable discharge notes and reprimands. Igor Chudov has the full story .

This is too little too late. A better course of action would have been to respect an individual’s right to bodily sovereignty, however the US military has a pretty shocking record of using it’s soldiers as vaccine lab rats, the use of experimental anthrax vaccinations during the Gulf War being an earlier example.
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November 18, 2023 8:06am
- kowtow
  
  kk
  
  Good on you for raising these issues.
  
  Many if not most want it to go away.
  We need reminding of how irrational , unreasonable and coercive the modern western state has become ( and all its agents)
  
  We live in extremely disturbing times.
  
  And dare I say it another example is the lawfare being waged on Trump.
  Unprecedented but with a definite agenda , nothing to do with the pursuit of justice.
  
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  November 18, 2023 8:21am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Trump will not be stopped, short of assassination.
    The Dems are quite capable of doing this, ain’t that right Hillary?
    
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    November 18, 2023 10:04am
    - David Garrett
      
      Oh dear….
      
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      November 18, 2023 11:09am
- G152
  
  Sounds like the US military is on a par with the Palistinians at not being able to learn to not piss off the rational.
  And it would appear that the attempt to run the ‘think of the children’ propoganda is running out of steam as Aljazeera gets desperate.
  All the terrorists have to do is surrender before they are chased down and neutralised
  
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  November 18, 2023 8:21am
- Colville
  
  kk.
  A loss of 8000 out of over a million in service, a impact on operational readiness?
  
  A long bow you are drawing there .
  
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  November 18, 2023 9:22am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    True. A bigger obstacle to effectiveness would be one US senator’s refusal to sanction hundreds of military appointments because the armed forces provide healthcare for women.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/07/tommy-tuberville-trump-military-holds
    
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    November 18, 2023 9:49am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Do you believe that proportionality is reason to dismiss the potential impact? Are you assuming the losses are distributed evenly across all roles? The armed services themselves don’t share your view which is presumably why they are re-hiring, fixing discharge records, dropping vax mandates etc.
    
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    November 18, 2023 11:24am
    - Master Mariner
      
      I think a lot are leaving due to ” Woke” shit being promoted in the armed services enabled from the top.
      My “limited” understanding they are leaving in droves.
      
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      November 18, 2023 11:37am
      - Manu-Rau
        
        The same thing is happening in the NZDF: mainly Pakeha males realising they have no future.
        
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        November 18, 2023 12:35pm
      - Matt Long
        
        Surely all the positions left open by bigots and cookers leaving are being filled straight away by snowflakes and TRAs?
        
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        November 18, 2023 2:06pm
Blackbob

Who knew a barbaric pre-medieval religion wouldn’t be open to kindness. There is no such thing as Islamophobia.
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November 18, 2023 8:06am
- Che Guava
  
  To be fair, the Jews are Old Testament in their attitude through and through, with a emphasis on eye for an eye and seeking vengeance as sanctioned by God. Just listen to Netanyahu’s recent “kill Amalek” rhetoric. They reject Jesus and the “love thy neighbour” message of the New Testament. Maybe Islam is violent too, but Israel was founded on violence and there is no sign of that changing any time soon, unless they reject their religious tenets and adopt Christianity.
  
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  November 18, 2023 2:48pm
Vinicius

Shaun Plunket on NZ Platform interviewed Shane Jones yesterday about what he calls the Waitangi ‘reset’. Over the period of the election campaign. I’ve come around to agreeing with Jones, Peters and Seymour on the Treaty. I think the status quo on the Treaty is no longer sustainable.

I’ve never been a huge fan of Jones but in this interview, I found myself agreeing with him.

It may come down to is the new government going to be a hold the fort and merely patch up what Labour ruined or to be a genuine reforming administration who embrace change?

https://youtu.be/srXRmnJ9c2w
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November 18, 2023 8:07am
- Vinicius
  
  Ele Ludemann has posted on her blog Homepaddock about this. It is thought provoking.
  
  She quotes David Lange from 23 years ago.
  
  “It is with no disrespect for Maori feeling for the treaty that I have to say it means nothing to me. It can mean nothing to me because it has nothing to say to me.”
  
  And
  
  “The treaty is a wonderful stick for activists to beat the rest of us with, but it could never have assumed the importance it has without the complicity of others.”
  
  https://homepaddock.wordpress.com/2023/11/15/does-reset-need-a-referendum/
  
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  November 18, 2023 10:52am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  I am happy with the original articles, the living here as one person is what we should all strive too, many Māori I know want that too.
  
  I was uncomfortable with a referendum because it was never explained well enough, but we do have to stop this bullshit that everything must be pointed to Māori, if a rewrite is to make it clear what the treaty meant, and not what changed democracy Jackson states, I am convinced Jackson will be gone not long after the election, but he will sit back and start protests against the nation, which will only hurt the left
  
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  November 18, 2023 12:26pm
slightlyrighty

I see the Free Speech Union has written to Berhampore School about it’s response to parents raising objections about Pride Week activities.

I note that this is the same school that was mentioned in the GD yesterday about it’s teaching of Maori Creation Myths and theology as scientific fact.

As this was one of the 2 schools nearest me that my kids could have attended, I’m so pleased I picked the other one!
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November 18, 2023 8:15am
Planet B

Can someone please explain the logic of this following comment from yesterday before it wins the most bizarre comment of the week award.

“A second trump term would be a disaster for democracy”
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November 18, 2023 8:30am
- ClanMcleod
  
  In a nutshell – TDS.
  
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  November 18, 2023 9:32am
- Paulus
  
  Simply – not left wing as the media !
  
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  November 18, 2023 11:11am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Yesterday Kevn posted this:
  
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2023/11/general_debate_17_november_2023.html#comment-3470177
  
  TDS? Best you go to the basement and not read the link in Kevn’s post.
  
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  November 18, 2023 11:12am
- virtualmark
  
  It refers to Project 2025. See https://www.project2025.org/
  
  Trump version 2016 really just wanted a butler to bring him cokes and burgers, a band to play when he entered the room, and pretty women to look at him.
  
  Trump version 2024 is an angry man looking for vengeance.
  
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  November 18, 2023 3:36pm
  - artemisia
    
    An angry rich man? Or maybe just a bit bored? (And rich.)
    
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    November 18, 2023 3:56pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/133302881/i-want-the-truth-police-investigate-after-baby-suffocated-in-collapsed-portacot
Yet another one. So sad.
The same lies, and cover-ups, and blaming others.
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November 18, 2023 8:32am
- Benedict Yu
  
  And yet another birth that was not registered.
  
  The guy from DIA says…
  
  ““There can be numerous reasons why people do not register births within that time frame [two months]. Where we are aware of delays in birth registration we work with whānau to remove any barriers they may have to completing registration.”
  
  No there cannot be “numerous reasons” for not registering a birth. It is a sign of dysfunction. Not registering a birth or attempting to give a child some horrendous name should be red flags.
  
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  November 18, 2023 8:41am
  - John Loveridge
    
    The barrier in this case was “Kween”.
    
    (I’m pleased to see that the Department of Internal Affairs is still referred to by an English name.)
    
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    November 18, 2023 8:53am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Sorry to disappoint but its primary name is “te Tari Taiwhenua”.
      
      https://www.dia.govt.nz/
      
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      November 18, 2023 9:39am
  - pdm
    
    ……. to remove any barriers……….
    
    mrspdm and I (mainly me) registered four births through the 1970’s.
    
    It was pretty simple then and I am sure it is probably a bloody sight easier now as you can probably do it online and do not have to trot into the Post Office or Court to do so.
    
    Or in one case for us the Suva Post Office and also the New Zealand High Commission for one child who has dual citizen ship.
    
    It is all about the first step in fulfilling your responsibilities as a parent.
    
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    November 18, 2023 8:58am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Indeed. And attempting to name a child “Ruthless-Empire Souljah-Reign Rhind Shepherd Wall” should have authorities launching an urgent inquiry into the welfare of the child.
      
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      November 18, 2023 9:04am
    - kowtow
      
      ……and citizen.
      
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      November 18, 2023 9:20am
    - Gravelroad
      
      “Fulfilling your responsibilities as a parent”?
      For many this means making sure as soon as possible after the birth, that all benefits, subsidies, government handouts and entitlements applicable to the child are in place quickly.
      The responsibility is all about the money.
      The welfare of the baby comes second (or third after the requirements of the latest needy boyfriend moving in).
      
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      November 18, 2023 9:27am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Its going to be all okay.
    
    Lady Moxham was on tv3 this morning.
    
    She along with raukawa tait was instrumental in the “resignation” of Grainne Moss from running Oranga Tamariki because Grainne was uplifting too many kids and she wasn’t maori.
    So the “strong maori women” took over.
    
    More kids murdered.
    
    But the strong maori woman known as lady moxham didn’t mention any of that this morning .
    Instead she was there to talk about a treaty.
    
    She was there to make sure she still has a trough to stick her snout in.
    
    Fuck the kids.
    
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    November 18, 2023 10:22am
  - artemisia
    
    What happens when illegal immigrants have babies here. Does registering the birth initiate follow up actions? If so that will be a reason not to register. A lot of data matching happens these days and birth records are public docs.
    
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    November 18, 2023 10:27am
    - Paulus
      
      If not registered can they not go to Primary School – now a Kura !
      Does the school not check in any way – no way, it is the incompetent Education Department.
      
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      November 18, 2023 11:14am
      - wsk12345
        
        They don’t live long enough to go to primary school. If they make it to primary school, statistically they are way less likely to be murdered by their “whanau”.
        
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        November 18, 2023 11:28am
- kevn
  
  grey… Calling cowboy, anybody there?
  
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  November 18, 2023 8:43am
- John Loveridge
  
  Reading both the lines and inbetween them, a picture quickly emerges of a thoroughly dysfunctional set of people surrounding the kid throughout its short life.
  
  It must be the trauma of colonisation and rampant institutional racism. Maori solutions are needed for Maori people! Give them a few billion dollars more and this kind of thing will stop.
  
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  November 18, 2023 8:51am
- Opie
  
  Hey Ghost… I’m guessing this one wasn’t maoris either?
  
  “Extended whānau were shocked when they learnt there had been a boozy gathering at the Parore St house while Kween’s body was lying there in an open casket.”
  
  [Mod – drop the racist rubbish]
  
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  November 18, 2023 9:05am
  - Ghost
    
    What a stupid post, a child has died, one whose identity is known and you want to try score points?
    
    What I’ve pointed out before is that when an identity isn’t know it’s wrong to assume off the bat it is a Māori child, and I’ve shown a photo from 2015 article of New Zealand murdered children where nearly half of those children in the photo are white children.
    
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    November 18, 2023 9:23am
    - Flossie
      
      Very difficult to decide anyone’s ethnicity from a photograph.
      
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      November 18, 2023 9:29am
      - Ghost
        
        Not really when you work out who they are, but to help people here are the names from 2016 of the killed children, doesn’t include the past few years including the 3 murdered in timaru
        
        61 little names on New Zealand’s roll of dishonour
        
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        November 18, 2023 9:32am
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        Ghost – that article is disturbing. I don’t think it fully supports your position on the ethnicity, however I think the argument to immediately target race is lazy and makes us no different to the likes of Te Pati Māori if we go down this road.
        
        We often hear statistics misquoted to support a bias e.g.
        – women don’t earn as much as men therefore pay equity is required
        – maori don’t live as long so the health system needs to be separated
        These examples show a failure to get to the root cause of issues and the promotion of solutions that are not targeted and biased.
        
        I have seen a study done on the pay equity situation and it has found that families with children earn less than families without children. Earning power is hit by becoming the main caregiver to children. Women disproportionately are the primary caregiver so are most impacted. However, the solutions being promoted to solve this problem aren’t targeted at primary caregivers or families with children. Positive discrimination applied to all women is not a fair solution. It will gift entitlements to childless women who are already achieving equity in the workplace, without really fixing the situation for the working mother.
        
        Equally with these infant deaths, what are the real issues here. From reading your article it appears that mothers who take on new partners is a common thread. So if we want to reduce the likelihood of infant abuse and murder we need to teach our young people that stable, monogamous relationships provide the best environment for children. Teaching them at school that it is ok to have sex with anyone you want whenever you want isn’t part of the solution. Relooking at DPB so it does not incentivise fatherless families is another area that must be addressed. Can you see any of our current political parties promoting these ideas?
        
        It is interesting that so many of the solutions put in place to be kind to those who most struggle to succeed in society, result in ensnaring them in living hell rather than enabling them to become satisfied net givers to our society.
        
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        November 18, 2023 4:18pm
      - Ghost
        
        Up until 1991 child homicide rates between Māori and non Māori were pretty equal, for some reason from then they sky rocketed.
        
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        November 18, 2023 4:26pm
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        While 61 infant deaths since 2016 is disgusting, just think about another consequence of our societal values to sex, marriage and family:
        
        13,264 abortions in 2022
        
        58,887 births in 2022
        
        Almost 20% of conception’s in our country are being terminated. Hard to be proud to be NZer looking at that!
        
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        November 18, 2023 4:27pm
    - wsk12345
      
      Well actually it’s not wrong when most of them are Maori. The statistics direct our response- unless just 15% of these murdered kids are Maori?
      
      And this is based on their definition of Maori where you can easily be pale with freckles but still receive annual dividends from nga tahi.
      
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      November 18, 2023 11:30am
      - Ghost
        
        No, what is wrong is to automatically decide every murdered child is Maori without knowing any details of the child
        
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        November 18, 2023 11:44am
    - Opie
      
      Ghost, if you think half those kids are white then you have it worse than I thought. Maybe one in ten.
      
      And that’s the point. This is a Maori thing. You don’t need to know the name or see a photo to know the lineage.
      
      We continue to cover it up and make excuses for it and let people refuse to give evidence with no punishment, but untill someone pulls the band aid off and says hey, maoris are massively over represented in this, how do we fix it the results will continue to be the same.
      
      Nothing I say on here will bring any of those kids back, as much as you saying it might not be maoris will.
      
      Its not point scoring, just sick of people ignoring the cold hard truth
      
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      November 18, 2023 4:09pm
      - Ghost
        
        Actually what I said was nearly half of the ones in the photo from the stuff article were white, the nz herald article includes more than stuff had. and no killing a child, abusing a child physical, mentally and emotional is not a Māori thing, neither is trying to cover it up and lie about it. And yes taking an article where a child has been killed and their identity is known and aiming at me was a pathetic attempt at point scoring, and an inability to understand that you cannot take every child abuse story where the identity is not known and claim it is Māori which was my point the other day. You were so childish in your attempt to point score that went right over your head what I was saying. Perhaps next time a child is murdered your first thought will be the child instead of trying to point score
        
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        November 18, 2023 4:21pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Everton receive immediate 10-point Premier League deduction for financial rules breach. Chelsea & Man City likely to be next on the hook.

Biscuit – quiet in the cheap seats!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67448714
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November 18, 2023 8:36am
- Biscuit
  
  I shall be mannaminou, oh stuff it, big-hearted. NMTB.
  
  Though a less-kind Pool fan has already texted me:
  ‘Everton is stunned by a sudden TEN-POINT deduction for breaking Premier League financial rules.
  It would typically take them three weeks to achieve that.’
  
  If the authorities, though, can be so harsh on Liverpool’s cross-city rivals, however are they going to deal with the likes of Chelsea and Manchester City who, arguably, have committed far greater financial sins?
  
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  November 18, 2023 9:40am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    City in particular have been proven to be in breach of financial regulations for years. Should be interesting to see what happens there.
    
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    November 18, 2023 10:36am
    - plc
      
      That is not correct.
      
      They have 115 CHARGES against them.
      
      When charged by UEFA on similar offences they successfully had them dismissed by the Court of Arbitration in Sport.
      
      I’m a Liverpool supporter and believe that on the info to date Citeh are guilty of illegal third party transactions. But to say the case has already been proven is incorrect.
      
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      November 18, 2023 11:40am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        plc – I wasn’t referring to this particular case. Apologies if I gave that impression.
        You are correct. They are facing 115 current charges and that case is ongoing.
        
        I was referring to when City were banned from the Champions League for 2 years and fined 30 million euros. They were guilty as sin then and are as guilty as sin now.
        They spent a fortune and managed to get the 2 year ban overturned. They got the fine reduced from $30 million euros to $10 million euros.
        
        https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-man-city-champions-league-ban-overturned-what-it-means-6503697/
        
        If they weren’t guilty of anything they wouldn’t have still been fined $10 million euros. The ban should have stood also. The evidence from leaked documents showed clear breaches. I think there might have been a few brown envelopes involved in the appeal.
        
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        November 18, 2023 12:22pm
      - JimBobJoe
        
        They had proven UEFA charges overturned by CAS on a statute of limitations evidence time barred get out of jail free card, decided by a panel which had a chair appointed by City…. to be precise…
        
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        November 18, 2023 12:40pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        JimBobJoe – cheers for that information, I knew something stunk at the time!!
        
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        November 18, 2023 1:07pm
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Everton have got lucky… if that points deduction had been applied last season they would have gone down to the Championship…
    
    As it is they are competing for 17th pace with 3 of the worst sides to ever appear in the EPL. Everton will stay up comfortably – a ten point deduction puts them on 4 points, only 2 points away form 17th spot…
    
    I hope City get shit canned by the EPL, but they have some much cash their KC’s will keep this tied up in litigation for a decade and they will continue on their dodgy way… (dodgy in JBJ’s honest of opinion only of course)
    
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    November 18, 2023 12:43pm
O C Smith

Huge “unintended consequences” through significant numbers of young taking up vaping will probably one of the longer lasting legacies of the Labour Government.
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November 18, 2023 8:41am
- Flossie
  
  It’s reported kids as young as six years old are addicted to vaping, and primary schools are full of vapers. The question is of course who is supplying them? There must be extremely serious consequences for those doing so.
  
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  November 18, 2023 9:26am
  - kowtow
    
    It’s hilarious , the outgoing bunch of Muppets claimed their legislation would make generations “smoke free” or some such bull and yet ……
    
    ……and then the Muppets in the UK copiedthem.
    
    How about why don’t you arseholes just leave people be . Unintended consequences and all that .
    
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    November 18, 2023 10:53am
  - Paulus
    
    We should be the first country in the world to ban vaping – nobody know s the long term damage but it is believed to be very serious, so stop now.
    Most vape shops are immigrant controlled, like many booze barns.
    
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    November 18, 2023 11:17am
    - miltonF
      
      Perhaps we should ban alcohol then? As we know the long term damage this drug causes and it’s catastrophic. Also. Immigrants apparently.
      
      Or we could simply embrace freedom and let people live life how they want and suffer the consequences or benefits of their actions.
      
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      November 18, 2023 3:22pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Kids, Milton. Plenty of stuff is available for adults but controlled for kids.
        
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        November 18, 2023 5:09pm
kiwikidsnz

“The media have set themselves above and apart from the communities they purport to serve, and in the process they have severed the vital connection that gives them their legitimacy. ”

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/karl-du-fresne-my-experience-of-censorship-and-what-it-tells-us-about-the-new-culture-of-journalism
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November 18, 2023 8:58am
- Grumpy Silver Haired Female
  
  I agree with Karl that ‘the media’, the wolf pack of people who shame the title journalist, have come to believe that they, personally, know best. Reporting the properly verified truth? Yeah, nah. The rubbish I have read during the coalition negotiations is typical. They have nothing to report so every little titbit is turned into a major story, to fill airtime and columns. They are determined to prove their own delusions. What a waste of space.
  
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  November 18, 2023 9:28am
  - Vinicius
    
    Also Bryce Edwards writes a diatribe against Luxon and one of his primary sources is Hooton!
    
    To quote Peters yesterday it is “poppycock and absolute rubbish”.
    
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    November 18, 2023 10:12am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      All Media are blaming Luxon, today it’s 5 weeks of humiliation for Luxon. I say what has been humiliating? All three leaders are suggesting it’s virtually done, 15 days since specials, we will have a government in the next few days, and it will be better than the mined is bribed previous regime
      
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      November 18, 2023 12:31pm
Tomtoddy

I am interested in what other bloggers think about the coalition talks. On the one side the media are making a huge mouthful out of the time taken to settle an agreement to the point of outright lying about Peters return to Auckland from Wellington, for example, and calling Hooten a “right wing commentator” when he has been the sharpest critic of Luxon from the get go. Hooten would be the arch-opportunist, writing whatever gets him space.

The media have exploited every possible angle to make their negative stories – interviewing their keyboard stuff – filling columns everyday with petulant rubbish. Then they feign surprise when a survey says the public think the negotiating dance has taken too long. What shysters!!

I am still not sure just what skills Luxon has and how well he has made the transition from businessman to politician but forging an agreement between his troops, many who believe National is the ‘natural’ party of power, ACT with the most clearly defined policy planks and NZFirst with a few very populist but useful demands was always going to be difficult and time consuming.

On balance I feel the situation is nowhere near as dire as the MSM want us to believe but it needs wrapping up in the next week. Agree??
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November 18, 2023 9:27am
- Grumpy Silver Haired Female
  
  Agree completely. See my reply above to kiwikidsnz
  
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  November 18, 2023 9:29am
  - Biscuit
    
    More agreeing completely…
    
    Don’t you just know that Tova, once the coalition talks get resolved, will then pen a piece titled:
    ‘What the new Government will do. Should New Zealanders be alarmed? Here’s why I am…’
    
    I almost yearn for a return to the days of Keith Holyoake. There’s a great pic of him, sat at his desk, three reporters (all male, all in suits) standing alongside taking notes:
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/1969-keith-holyoake-pm-who-carried-his-own-bags/LVZDJ3PGOKXR2JQRYAPU33HPII/
    
    A good tale re Sir Keith.
    
    I had a flat not too far away from his Aurora Terrace house here in Wellington and on my way to do shopping I quite often said ‘Hi’ or, occasionally, chatted about (non-political) matters of the day.
    
    One day, we were chatting about Rugby – he represented his then-district, Motueka, at the sport when younger – and all of a sudden a car pulled up and out jumped a Tova-like wannabe-opinionist intent on asking some vitally important question.
    
    Keith look at him very quizzically and simply said ‘What day of the week is it?’
    ‘Um, Saturday, Prime Minister.’
    ‘Saturdays I devote to Norma, my garden, my grandkids and to people like this young man. Go away!’
    
    Exit one very sheepish reporter.
    
    And, eventually, exit one suddenly-feeling-quite-important young me, heh…
    
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    November 18, 2023 10:06am
    - artemisia
      
      Heh, my ex PM story. Lived in the same street, saw him often. One morning I walked past, nobody in sight, and one of those big pilot’s bags sitting on the footpath. Large label – Rt Hon PM of New Zealand.
      
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      November 18, 2023 10:16am
      - Biscuit
        
        No (visible) security back then, artemisia. either.
        
        Different, more innocent times, of course…
        
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        November 18, 2023 10:31am
      - Paulus
        
        One Friday early afternoon I was at the Parliament end of the Terrace when a screeching of brakes came forth – a car had exited side entrance as was of Parliament when a bus was coming down the street.
        The car stopped full brakes on in the middle of the road as did the bus just before it – a big Maori Bus driver got out to slang the car driver who got out and said sorry – Great laughter all round and back slapping as Holyoake and the driver shook hands and everybody clapped.
        
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        November 18, 2023 11:25am
    - Swifty
      
      Hahahaha!
      
      Wonderful, Biscuit.
      
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      November 18, 2023 10:53am
    - KiwiSapper
      
      The last “Statesman” this country had and I fear will have had for some lengthy time yet to come……
      
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      November 18, 2023 10:56am
    - OlderChas
      
      Whilst always finding Holyoake a bit more than a trifle pompous – he was a kiwi bloke at heart and a good PM. Nice story Biscuit!
      
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      November 18, 2023 10:57am
      - backster
        
        He always sat ringside at the big boxing matches in the town hall, and when Peter Snell ran a classic mile at the Basin Reserve Keith, like me fought his way through the crowd to a strategic place on the rail inside the gate.
        
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        November 18, 2023 2:22pm
- Gravelroad
  
  I feel sorry for Mr Luxon – hamstrung as he now appears to be by the demands of Mr 6%.
  But Mr Peters showed them didn’t he? Wasn’t he good on Tv telling reporters not to mess with me, Sunshine?
  The old fogeys lapped that up and couldn’t wait to vote for him, no matter how much trouble and disruption he might cause.
  Hope he’s worth it.
  
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  November 18, 2023 9:43am
  - Flossie
    
    Hey this old fogey didn’t vote for Winston!
    I say “Winston” rather than NZ First, as once he’s no longer part of it they’ll disappear off the spectrum.
    
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    November 18, 2023 9:55am
    - peterwn
      
      NZF could well disintegrate as it did in 1998 when Jenny Shipley stared down Winston and cobbled together a majority with disaffected NZF and Alliance people. Inviting an ostracised Alliance MP for a cuppa each Friday morning worked wonders.
      Oh yes, Simon Bridges reckons the Waka Hopper Act is useless so this could cause Winston problems.
      
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      November 18, 2023 10:12am
      - MCōs
        
        She might have put Winston in his place, but it didn’t do her and her government much good
        I suspect Mr Luxon is finding out putting Winston in his place is no easy thing when you ain’t got the numbers
        
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        November 18, 2023 11:13am
    - wsk12345
      
      I disagree. If Casey Costello gets two years to make her mark, she will lead NZ1 into the future.
      
      And no I didn’t vote for them.
      
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      November 18, 2023 11:43am
  - Ghost
    
    How about the demands of Mr 8%. But listening to what little they’re saying it doesn’t seem to be any specific party slowing things down,
    
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    November 18, 2023 10:04am
  - peterwn
    
    Chris will be OK. He will turn out to be smarter than Winston.
    
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    November 18, 2023 10:07am
    - artemisia
      
      Mr Luxon does appear to have marshalled his MPs so that their feet are all pointing in the same direction, at least in public.
      
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      November 18, 2023 10:19am
      - mawm
        
        Therein lies the problem – the MP’s serving the party and not the voters.
        
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        November 18, 2023 10:58am
  - Paulus
    
    The media are not going to like this incoming Government who will not acquiesce to the machinations and lies of the press like Labour did all the time.
    
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    November 18, 2023 11:28am
- Benedict Yu
  
  It is not a big deal.
  
  The other two countries with MMP are Israel and Germany. Post election negotiations to form a government can take months.
  
  The journalists are just upset because they have nothing to write about.
  
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  November 18, 2023 9:45am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    If the time was not a big deal, then perhaps Mr Luxon should not have boasted about his deal making expertise and expectation that he would be off to APEC.
    
    5 36
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    November 18, 2023 9:52am
    - Ghost
      
      It’s been two weeks since the results. If you are upset with how long since the election then blame labour for pushing the offical count out to three weeks instead of the two weeks it had been
      
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      November 18, 2023 9:55am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      “smarmy” DEF: “revealing or marked by a smug, ingratiating, or false earnestness”
      
      https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/smarmy
      
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      November 18, 2023 10:02am
    - Biscuit
      
      mike. be honest now, exactly what was achieved at APEC (or indeed virtually any high-level meeting, those at the UN included) that was a) worth it or b) not able to have been achieved at a Zoom meeting?
      
      Back in the day, remember, our diplomats did all those meetings.
      
      It’s only really since TV, its 24-Hours News, and it’s ‘we need pictures of important people’, came along that top-level folk turned up.
      
      I will look to see what costumes the leaders get garbed out in for their after-conference get-together and not bother with the as-bland-as-always communique…
      
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      November 18, 2023 10:16am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Hey, I agree with you about APEC, but I wasn’t the one talking up the importance of our PM attending. That was Mr Luxon’s own goal.
        
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        November 18, 2023 12:08pm
    - JimBobJoe
      
      Ahhh Mike… maybe Seymour and Luxon arent keen on just bending over and getting a pineapple inserted as Labour were in 2017….. Maybe they have principles and are driving a hard bargain to get Winston into a coalition…
      
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      November 18, 2023 12:49pm
  - Prince
    
    10% of the new Govt’s term will be over before they start.
    Assuming Christmas break, then Waitangi.
    There are very serious Economic and Social problems in this country.
    Also, Luxon seems to be under the misapprehension that the Media are his buddies. They will cut and paste all the ‘…unable to comment…I know all about negotiations…’etc to ridicule him on the news. Take a leaf from Peters’ book and ignore the Media, find a way to talk to the public without the Media spinning your soundbites to match their own political aims.
    
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    November 18, 2023 10:03am
    - Ghost
      
      Don’t worry, luxon has already said the house will be sitting longer under his govt. The serious issues won’t be fixed over night, they will take time. Have a drink, relax, you’ll have a govt very shortly
      
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      November 18, 2023 10:11am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        He could resume Cabinet and Parliament in mid January. There is no law of nature that says that New Zealand must shut down from 22 December through the end of January.
        
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        November 18, 2023 10:20am
      - Ghost
        
        It would appear so
        
        Incoming Prime Minister Christopher Luxon plans to shorten the Parliamentary close down period over summer.
        
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        November 18, 2023 10:33am
      - kevn
        
        Ghost… I have heard that they will be working through apart from the stats. Have spent all year planning what and how.
        
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        November 18, 2023 10:23am
      - Drone
        
        But BY it’s a well known fact that parliament only sits for about 30 weeks a year, if they worked any longer they wouldn’t get all the school holidays off. In reality they turn up for 3 days a week at most and hang around the house at odd hours, they should review their working days and make them more productive, and their working year should mirror the number of working weeks most New Zealanders have to work to make ends meet.
        
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        November 18, 2023 11:41am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Drone
        It’s incorrect to assume MPs are only working when the house of representatives is sitting.
        
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        November 18, 2023 12:10pm
  - Vinicius
    
    Another one is Spain which took 115 days to form a government, completed on 16th November.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Spanish_government_formation
    
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    November 18, 2023 10:04am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Benedict – nothing to write about?
    
    Tova (& others) are taking the opportunity to blame all the current Grant Robertson initiated government cutbacks on the as yet unannounced National-led government
    
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    November 18, 2023 10:29am
- Ghost
  
  Labour extended the recount to three weeks, instead of two. If they hadn’t done then we’d have a government by now. Also important to remember just what a bloody mess labour have created and that will have made negioations take more time as some major things need to be done.
  
  I expect we will soon have a government that will last the distance
  
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  November 18, 2023 9:57am
  - Ian Boag
    
    If they hadn’t done then we’d have a government by now
    
    Or negotiations would be a week older. 🙂
    
    Personally I think they should all just be left to get on with it. Lack of agreement is pretty obvious when no agreement is forthcoming. Reporting “how close we are” is just hot air. Peters running to and from Auckland is just bullshit.
    
    As in the Pantene ad – it will happen.
    
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    November 18, 2023 10:14am
    - NothingLeft
      
      “Pantene ad”
      
      A casualty of our era – we no longer create new common cultural references in NZ, because we no longer watch TV or listen to ads, and have no widely popular heroes or celebrities. Everything is fractured and Balkanized.
      
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      November 18, 2023 10:50am
- peterwn
  
  Chris Luxon would be itching to get on with things but would regard it as more important to nail things down now to minimise the chance of the old b**** causing trouble later as he did with Jacinda’s government. Moreover Chris and Winston would agree on some issues and these would be knocked off the table fairly quickly. However Chris must not concede issues merely to wrap negotiations quickly. Far better Chris takes a bit more time and concede as little as possible to Winston. For those who question Chris’s negotiating abilities, signs are that he is doing pretty well. Of course some media people and those on the left are going to doubt his abilities on principle.
  
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  November 18, 2023 10:05am
- kowtow
  
  My tuppence worth is te media pahti are beating this up for all it’s worth cos they hate the three players .
  
  if this were their saint , She Who Saved Us , they’d be saying ; this is too important to rush , they’ve got to get it right, give them space, have some respect for the Annonted One and All Her Holy Works , etc
  
  Last night on the box some girl journo actually demanded Luxon give an example , when he again repeated his “I’m a negotiator”
  
  I recall practically no such challengers from te media over 6 years of Ardern and yet he’s still not PM and here we have it. Same with Lame repeated demand of Lux on taxes etc
  
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  November 18, 2023 10:39am
- nathie
  
  “Play it again John” (line stolen from that famous BASF cassette commercial)!
  
  Winston gives Tova a blast with both barrels for making things up and not respecting the confidentiality of the negotiation process between the parties!
  
  https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/11/17/winston-peters-spars-with-media-over-coalition-talks/
  
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  November 18, 2023 10:58am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  As I said above today it’s 5 weeks of humiliation for Luxon. I say how or why is it humiliating?
  
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  November 18, 2023 12:33pm
Grunter

Anyone still thinking Ukraine is “winning” and that Zelensky is a “Goodie”?

So far the alt-media commentators such as Ritter, Duran, Redacted etc seem to have predicted the outcomes so far. Possibly 500,000 deaths and a completely destroyed country. Good luck negotiating with Putin now. What a complete cluster by NATO.
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November 18, 2023 9:44am
- Taieri
  
  At the onset of the war the average age of the Ukrainian soldiers was 30 to 35. At present the average age of the Ukrainian soldiers is 43.
  The population of Ukraine in 1991 was approx. 51 million. The current population is estimated at between 28 and 35 million.
  
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  November 18, 2023 9:56am
  - kowtow
    
    Figures for the Ivans would be interesting too.
    
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    November 18, 2023 11:07am
    - Taieri
      
      The age of conscription is 18 to 27 (18 to 30 from January 2024). Difficult to say what the average age for serving soldiers is at present, according to some sources the average age of a Russian soldier killed in Ukraine is about 30 at present as opposed to about 21 at the beginning of war.
      Looks like both sides are losing their youngest in great numbers, but the balance appears to be in favour of Russia.
      
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      November 18, 2023 12:08pm
- I remember when
  
  Regardless of our views of the rights and wrongs of the Ukraine war it was always the case that Putin would have some success.
  Ukraine may suffer vast amounts of war damage but Russia remains largely untouched.
  Not a battle of equals.
  
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  November 18, 2023 10:40am
- kowtow
  
  Well they haven’t lost either . To the so called best .
  
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  November 18, 2023 11:07am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    They’ve lost. They just haven’t figured it out yet.
    
    Another US/NATO proxy war ending in disaster and the deaths of hundreds of thousands in the process. Whatever happened to what was a once great and noble country?
    
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    November 18, 2023 11:30am
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      What is your definition of “lost”.
      
      Russia has got the Donbass, a fair bit of which was already in separatist hands, and a land corridor from Crimea. Finland and Sweden have joined NATO as will ultimately Ukraine.
      
      Was that worth it for the hundreds of thousands of dead, mostly on the Russian side?
      
      It is far short of the original Russian war aim which was to overthrow the Ukraine govt and install a puppet regime totally subservient to the Kremlin. This much was obvious from the original Russian thrust from Belarus to Kyiv.
      
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      November 18, 2023 11:53am
      - All_on_Red
        
        But Wayne, Russia has the ‘best’ Convict Army in the world!
        
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        November 18, 2023 11:58am
      - Taieri
        
        Was that worth it for the hundreds of thousands of dead, mostly on the Russian side?
        ———–
        
        It was, otherwise they wouldn’t have done it. They think in a completely different way from us. The “Glory of the Motherland” is the most important objective there. As Stalin used to say, “we have a big country and plenty of people”. Not much has changed since.
        
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        November 18, 2023 12:12pm
      - kowtow
        
        Taieri
        
        ‘otherwise they wouldn’t have done it. ‘
        
        I don’t agree . I think they thought they’d win quick fast with the seizure of the airports near Kiev , the land invasions from north , and east .
        
        That failed relatively quickly and now the idiot Putin is stuck with what is actually his war and at the moment he has no way out .
        
        To those who say Russia has had little loss . Bull . They’ve had huge casualties and as others have said that will tell ,eventually in the families , villages and towns.
        meanwhile has anyone reminded us about the fact that Putin’s war is so popular no one wants to join his army.
        
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        November 18, 2023 12:27pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Wayne Mapp – give me some reputable sources for your claims that the dead are ‘mostly on the Russian side’. I’ve been monitoring as many ‘neutral’ sites as I can. I try to avoid those clearly pro either side. From what I am reading, I believe Russia is taking big losses, but I believe Ukraine’s are at least 5 times higher.
        
        A tragedy no matter what the facts are.
        
        Re the overthrow of the Ukraine government. Initially Russia probably hoped to get it over with as quickly as possible, hence the moves on Kiev. But once the extent of US and NATO support was realised they knew that this wasn’t going to be possible.
        It quickly changed to a war of attrition. To destroy the Ukrainian military potential and the Ukrainian infrastructure. Also to remove the far right Nazis controlling the puppet government.
        
        No matter how many new weapons NATO and the US have supplied, it hasn’t changed a thing. Other than ensuring even more thousands die, on both sides.
        The longer this goes on, the more likelihood that Ukraine may well cease to exist as a country.
        
        BTW, the Ukrainian government already is a puppet regime – for the US/NATO coalition. It has been since the Maidan snipers opened fire on both sides in a false flag operation to overthrow the sitting government.
        
        https://www.globalresearch.ca/february-2014-kiev-maidan-snipers-western-backed-oppositions-false-flag-study/5499379
        
        Prior to this, the visits of John McCain and Victoria Nuland gave a clear indication of what was to come.
        
        It’s why the Minsk accords were used as a pretext to give the west time to arm and train Ukraine. As admitted by Angela Merkel.
        
        https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2022/12/13/merkels-confession-could-be-a-pretext-for-an-international-tribunal/
        
        Anyway, back to your original claim re the majority of the dead being Russians. Please supply a source.
        
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        November 18, 2023 1:05pm
      - Taieri
        
        I think they thought they’d win quick fast with the seizure of the airports near Kiev , the land invasions from north , and east
        ————-
        
        I think the apparent attack on Kiev was just a diversion intended to detract Ukrainians from what was happening in Donetsk and Lugansk, which Russian annexed outright. The invasion force used was very small, considering what was required and Russia what could have used if it wished to. For all the talk about the incompetence of the Russians prevailing in the media, the reality is quite different. The much talked about Ukrainian counter offensive failed to achieve much and there is a widening disharmony and increasing polarisation within the Ukraine, both, in political and military circles.
        To put it in plain English, I think the Ukrainians were shafted big way when they were convinced that talking to Russia last year was a no go. Now it’s too late for any negotiated solutions, which are impossible as long as Putin and Zelensky remain in power. And I’m not overly optimistic that the latter will remain in power for much longer.
        
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        November 18, 2023 1:31pm
      - Che Guava
        
        The US is finished, and the debacle in Ukraine has proven it. Putin gave them the middle finger and went in anyway. That would never have happened 20 years ago. Russia and China are tighter than ever, alternative arrangements and alliances to the US system are coalescing, the US sanctions against Russia failed, and the world can see more clearly how US hegemony has worked for 70 years, now that it is fading fast. They even cynically sabotaged their “ally” Germany’s economy by one of the largest acts of industrial terrorism in history. All of this as a result of their proxy war in Ukraine. Now they’ve seamlessly pivoted to pouring endless resources into Israel’s latest land grab which will likely have equally disastrous effects.
        
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        November 18, 2023 3:20pm
      - virtualmark
        
        A few days ago the Telegraph (UK) ran an estimate of 300,000 Russian dead and wounded in Ukraine since February last year. But if you add in the dead from the private military contractors and, importantly, the Donbass conscripts – neither of which are included in Russian estimates- NATO estimate just over 300,000 dead on the Russian side so far.
        
        By way of comparison total US military deaths in World War II was 407,000.
        
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        November 18, 2023 3:44pm
      - kowtow
        
        taieri
        
        No the attck on Kiev was not a diversion.
        
        Airborne, their best troops ,were used in the initial assualt , which was meant to be reinforced by further air landings which couldn’t happen cos they couldn’t guarantee safe air landings ,and if I recallcorrectly there was also a land invasion from Bylorussia which failed to get through.So they lost the initiative to seize kiev early in the piece and thus win quickly.
        
        Market Garden mark 2 gone wrong , again.
        
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        November 18, 2023 3:57pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        The strategic position turns in a heartbeat of China decides to reclaim some former Imperial landholding or other from the Ruskies. With so much manpower and materiel transferred West, it would be as easy as.
        
        If it’s small enough not to warrant nukes then Russia is humiliated.
        
        Putin would be finished either way.
        
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        November 18, 2023 5:23pm
      - nathie
        
        “Market Garden mark 2 gone wrong , again.”
        
        Imagine the surprise then disappointment when the Russian paratroopers, bravely crawling hundreds of metres pinned down under intense fire losing their comrades along the way, to finally reach and retrieve air dropped supplies from the Ilyushin Il-76’s flying overhead and found ~~berets~~ signed photos of Putin forged by their Generals back in Moscow!
        
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        November 18, 2023 6:02pm
- Handyman
  
  On the contrary, the war has been a resounding success for NATO.
  They have severely degraded Russian military capability at no cost to NATO and have received significantly increased budget and relevance.
  
  My prediction from a year ago stands.
  1. The war will end with Russia keeping what it has invaded but there will be an international peacekeeping force (NATO in mufti uniforms).
  2. Gas will once again flow to Germany via Ukraine with Ukraine taking a higher transit fee for reconstruction.
  3. EU and US companies will be paid by their governments to rebuild Ukraine.
  
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  November 18, 2023 11:24am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Russia has devastated Agriculture in Ukraine though. That’s going to take some fixing.
    But now the Russian Naval Fleet has been forced to move ships back to bases further away from Sevastopol (Drones!)
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-black-sea-fleets-logistical-problems-explored/ar-AA1k0TVJ
    At least that will make it easier for Grain Shipments from Odessa.
    Protests from Mothers about their Sons being kept at war are increasing too. Mothers protesting was one of the catalysts for withdrawal from Afghanistan.
    There are indictations that Ukraine has crossed below the Novaya Kakhovka Dam and has established a position behind the Oleshky Sand National Park.
    Thats very handily placed at the top of Crimea.
    
    We shall see,
    
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    November 18, 2023 12:11pm
- JimBobJoe
  
  Ukraine maybe battered down eventually, but the price Russia pays will make it a pyrrhic victory at best.
  
  Both countries are politically corrupt. But only one has invade the sovereign territory of another…. why you would applaud Russia is an interesting question to answer…
  
  As for negotiation with Putin – no one wants to, as Ukraine is just going to bleed Russia as long as the war continues. Strategically this weakens Russia over the next 2 decades, so that is a win for NATO with no NATO troops committed….
  
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  November 18, 2023 12:55pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    I don’t see anyone ‘applauding’ Russia? It’s a difference of opinion on what’s actually happening. This is undoubtedly down to the source of the information people are getting.
    
    Going anywhere near Western or Russian msm for reliable information is obviously a waste of time.
    
    As for the war weakening Russia, I think it’s the other way around. They are getting to test their equipment in the real world and learning quickly what works and modifying or dropping what doesn’t. They are learning about US and NATO equipment. They’ve captured plenty and destroyed even more.
    
    Of course, this works the other way round for NATO/US. The only difference being, they aren’t losing the manpower, Ukraine is.
    
    Also Russia’s military industrial capacity has been significantly ramped up due to this ongoing war.
    
    Like everything else, we’ll see what transpires eventually. But I think Russia will be the only country who benefit from this. Their military capacity, particularly hypersonic weapons which can’t be intercepted, have shocked the US/NATO. Also the apparent ease with which they have been able to destroy modern western tanks.
    
    They’re not the basket case they were after the fall of the Soviet Union, that’s for sure.
    
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    November 18, 2023 1:53pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      Russian ‘hypersonic’ weapons are expensive and inaccurate junk something like 50m CEP making them near useless other than as terror weapons (same as their other low accuracy missiles). They’re really just 1970’s era short range ballistic missiles, nothing clever. Patriot missile defense is able to shoot them down just fine, though batteries have to be within 10km ish of target to provide protection (only about 30-40s between start of reentry and impact for missile defence to react).
      
      Russian conventional weapons are being quickly exhausted. Their ability to manufacture or bring old gear into service is far below the rates it is being destroyed – eg with recent rise in drones Russian tanks are wrecked at ~4000/year with russian production only 1-200/year and old stocks refurbishment maybe 1000/year, and their storage yards are rapidly emptying (see covert cabal youtube channel for detailed analysis) .
      
      Helicopters and airforce have been massively depleted (350 gunships and 350 jets destroyed) and bases have had to be relocated to 100’s of km from front lines lessening their usefulness. Sortie rates are dropping precipitously allowing the Ukrainian Dnipro bridgehead to be established. Their missile launchers and radar systems are also depleted to a dire level (they are having to pull them out of rest of Russia to make up for losses – eg Kalinigrad mobile radar batteries disappeared last week.
      
      Russia are losing many times the front line casualties that Ukraine are, far worse now that they are doing crazy meat-wave offensive with 1000+ day dying (estimated killed and wounded something like 400k lost to 200k for Ukraine to date). Wounded russians are far more likely to die due to poor training and medivac, leadership just don’t care. But Russia have far higher ability to raise desperately poor and ignorant combat troops from their impoverished provinces.
      
      Ukraine are struggling because they are only receiving perhaps 1/10th the artillery shells and mortar bombs that Russia are, have no ability to launch lots of heavy bombs to clear trenches and fortifications, and have smaller population to draw troops from (though still only ~0.5% of pop casualties to date, Germany lost ~5% in WW2). But western gear they do have is far higher quality than Russian.
      
      The one bright spot for Ukraine is that they are doing a fantastic job in drone innovation and production ramping, and are generally dominating the Russians in this area (shorter range conventional weapons are basically obsolete). They are also steadily increasing their ability to hit targets 300-1000km away, making life extremely difficult for Russian logistics, navy, airforce, production facilities and rear echelon. The Russian peasantry are going to have a hard winter now that Ukraine can hit their infrastructure.
      
      To win Ukraine desperately need a 10x increase in shell and mortar bomb supply – 5-10 million a year rather than 100’s of thousands (Russia has exhausted stocks and are running out of guns but still have ~2million/year shell supply), and some means to drop 10’s of thousands of 100kg+ bombs up to 100km from front line to destroy heavy defensive positions.
      
      The frustrating thing is that this would only cost $5-10 billions a year to provide if West made rapid shell and mortar production ramping and provision of obsolete F16 fighters and JDAMs a priority. That’s a tiny fraction of western aid to date. But ukraine are doing amazing things with perhaps $1 billion a year they are spending on drones – and are innovating like mad and ramping up production.
      
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      November 18, 2023 3:46pm
- Master Mariner
  
  And a more detailed account , listen too Mershiemer and Sachs.
  
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  November 18, 2023 3:47pm
Yvette

One aspect of the coalition talks is the way they are being conducted – privately – so leaving the media in a void.
Ardern did the same with the so-called conversation on Capital Gains Tax, not even giving a government position or its side of the conversation. So it was a void which the media of course filled with their own agendas.
She did the same again with covid indecisions and co-governance, allowing media and social media to fill in for her, or play with themselves.

So Christopher Luxon should have learned from that
but hasn’t
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November 18, 2023 10:10am
- peterwn
  
  Chris does not need to ‘learn’ anything. The last thing he should be doing is grovelling to the media especially in the light of the treatment they have dished out to him. The boot is going to be on the other foot with regard to the media once he receives the PM warrant.
  
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  November 18, 2023 10:26am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Agreed, and Peters and Seymour may actually push Luxon to go hard on media
    
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    November 18, 2023 12:36pm
    - Ghost
      
      Doesn’t need pushing, obvious with the fact he put the cone of silence shutting the media out of knowing what’s going on with negotiations.
      
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      November 18, 2023 12:39pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        I thi k it’s great the talks are away from the still corrupted media.
        
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        November 18, 2023 7:27pm
- Yvette
  
  National’s tactical error in three-way talks
  https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/11/17/nationals-tactical-error-in-three-way-talks/
  
  Election 2023: Humiliating five weeks for Christopher Luxon – Matthew Hooton
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/11/election-2023-humiliating-five-weeks-for-christopher-luxon-matthew-hooton.html
  
  Knives out for incoming PM
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/502687/knives-out-for-incoming-pm
  
  Seaweed and bacon pie makes waves:
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/502675/seaweed-and-bacon-pie-makes-waves-you-can-t-just-sit-there
  
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  November 18, 2023 12:20pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    On Election night when it was clear Labour was gone there was a good sense of Chris Luxon’s keenness and confidence to get on with things. During the campaign, it seemed he’d looked to address his physical clumsiness by showing he could spin a builder’s hammer, cook a bbq, and shear an exotic animal that crapped on him.
    The way he was busting to get on with it was impressive with his apparent confidence to form a majority government.
    It was the kind of momentum that would uplift the population generally but certainly business. There was some confidence for successful voters that even with a recount he’d get his ducks in a row with NZF and Act but he didn’t even try. He didn’t have the wherewithal to even give it a go and tell the public what he was attempting to do.
    That time has now passed and he’s looking clumsy again, it is predictable that he’ll say the same things over and over and he’s left the public behind. He does not have the confidence to explain his position so that the public, the people who voted for him, can be satisfied. I think the view of him has changed or is beginning to.
    He would have been better advised to just brief the people and the press instead it could be viewed that he chucked democracy out the window.
    Some of the press are speculating that if there is the need for another election NZF and ACT will benefit by taking votes from the Nats. On the other hand, Labour will say its decision to rule out NZF was justified.
    I don’t see any reason why the “debate” is not an open book just as the election was. We are effectively having another election behind closed doors while an election vote for any party on the night is being compromised in silence.
    It’s the voters missing out here.
    
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    November 18, 2023 1:42pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Agreed, and Peters and Seymour may actually push Luxon to go hard on media
  
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  November 18, 2023 12:38pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  No, Luxon has done the right thing and blocked the lying asshole media out, just look at the shit they are right, if media want to be seen as the 4 estate then it’s for them to learn
  
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  November 18, 2023 12:39pm
I remember when

The Bird of the Century:
Isn’t it rather strange that the contest became a competition between the Kiwi, a bird that only comes out at night, and the Puteketeke, a bird that few could have identified by its Maori name alone.
In other words, two birds that only a few New Zealanders have even seen it their natural habitat.
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November 18, 2023 10:11am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

The Veteran shares a few words about what we paid for peace.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/veteran-kiwi-explains-why-he-is-committed-to-stopping-co-governance/
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November 18, 2023 10:16am
NothingLeft

Sam Altman, a generally philanthropic co-founder of Open AI (creators of ChAt GTP 2, 3, and 4) who have had meteoric rise in value to nearly $100Billion since founding in 2015 with a goal of safely bringing AI into the world, has just been fired.
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November 18, 2023 10:27am
I remember when

Todd Niall has an article in the Central Leader detailing opposition to Maori seats on the Auckland Council.
He highlights what he considers to be evidence of Pakeha oppostion, although he also states that those who declared themselves Asian were also considerably against Maori seats.

There is no opposition to Maori Councillors, only about how they become a one.
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November 18, 2023 10:27am
- Surely Knott
  
  Auckland already HAS Maori Seats. 2 unelected IMSB seats with council voting rights. (total 20 councillors + 2 IMSB) The Maori seats being proposed were in ADDITION to the IMSB seats apparently. Something that wasn’t clear in the consultation nor made clear by media. They fail to mention the IMSB seats.
  
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  November 18, 2023 11:46am
Maggie Pie

Goodness, only just arose half an hour ago. Talk about the sleep of the just.

Now not that I want to promote the ‘Green-Hamas-Huggers’, but they’ve got rallies of support for the raghead terrorists happening all round the country today!

In fact the only reason I’m posting this tweet is so you can read the comments 😀

https://twitter.com/NZGreens/status/1725375050822635708
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November 18, 2023 10:34am
- Ghost
  
  The protest has made it to timaru. One lady standing under a flag being complelty ignored. If she can get a couple more people it will equal the stop live exports protest.
  
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  November 18, 2023 10:46am
- emmess
  
  Interesting article about the super rich Marxists funding the Pro-Hamas protests
  
  https://www.thefp.com/p/american-marxists-funding-pro-palestinian-rage
  
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  November 18, 2023 10:50am
- kowtow
  
  Given the utter brutality and outright callouness of the initial terrorist attacks on southern Israel , not to mention the intent to derail peace agreements , the targets being particularly vulnerable people; the young , women ,children , elderly , disabled and also ignored in much of the fevered rhetoric of ‘oppression’ and colonialism were large numbers of migrant workers , many from Thailand .
  
  How is it the supposedly secular egalitarian Greens , of all people , haven’t been able to find one tiny little bit of “solidarity” for those victims of ultra conservative religious , political , misogynistic and brutal terror .
  
  The Greens have to be the ultimate hypocrites . And the so called Maori party not far behind.
  
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  November 18, 2023 11:06am
- nathie
  
  Thnx Maggie – The Greens are getting a pasting in the comments!
  
  Anyway shouldn’t the taxpayer paid “rich prick salary” Greens be working for all NZers instead of their narrow activist pet projects?
  
  Hmmm .. we need a counter protest movement: Defund the Greens!
  
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  November 18, 2023 11:08am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Rawene? A hotbed of pro Palestinian feeling? Really?
  
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  November 18, 2023 5:27pm
ClanMcleod

The liberal left Guardian in the UK has always claimed they are not funded by billionaires.

In 2021 the Guardian ran a series of adverts claiming the newspaper was “not funded by billionaires”, and “our readers’ backing gives us the independence to hold the powerful to account”.

Turns out The Grauniad is telling porkies. Again.

Not perhaps all the powerful. The Guardian is backed by a number of billionaire philanthropic foundations, including the European Climate Fund and the Rockefeller Family Fund. According to the investigative journalist Ben Pile, an additional $12 million grant from the Gates Foundation is equivalent alone to $116 for every reader of the print version.

So Gates pays $116 for every person who buys a physical copy of that rag!

Of course, he’s doing it for purely philanthropic reasons. Doesn’t want to influence anything or control the media narrative……//

https://dailysceptic.org/2023/11/16/billionaire-funds-the-guardian-to-tune-of-116-per-reader-of-print-edition/

In NZ, it was the Labour government and their buddies, The Greens and Maori Party who were buying the narrative. With taxpayer money.
Isn’t it wonderful to know your elected representatives use YOUR money to run propaganda and PR campaigns against you!?
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November 18, 2023 11:07am
Swifty

“81 joints, equivalent to about a half pound of weed…..”

https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/wellbeing/301010943/snoop-says-bye-to-buds-what-happens-when-you-stop-smoking-81-joints-a-day

A ounce is 28 grams. Half a pound is 8 ounces. The average joint is half a gram. So 80 a day is max an ounce and a half.

I suspect someone’s talking horseshit or Snoop’s roller is skimming…..
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November 18, 2023 11:12am
kevn

Swifty… Maybe he shared a lot?
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November 18, 2023 11:18am
- Swifty
  
  Yes, I thought that too.
  
  I know a few heavy smokers and an ounce a week is pretty good going. Two is very heavy going and rare.
  
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  November 18, 2023 12:36pm
Maggie Pie

Just heard ZBNews reporting…. that the CEO of Watercare has advised
they’ve now had the ‘Rahui’ lifted on Auckland Harbor.
TBH, I didn’t even know they’d had one put on there.

Wonder what all that shite has cost ratepayers?
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November 18, 2023 11:20am
- kevn
  
  Maggie. That must explain the Waiheke ferry debacle.
  
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  November 18, 2023 12:04pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  As far as I was aware Rahul is after a person has died in the water, it’s usually in place for 3 days in respect for the dead no matter what race they are. This 5 day turd Rahul is excuse the pun but it’s bullshit
  
  5 0
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  November 18, 2023 12:42pm
  - Ghost
    
    No, a Rāhui is to protect an area as well.
    
    2 4
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    November 18, 2023 12:49pm
- NothingLeft
  
  There is zero chance that Rahui would have been a feature of Maori life two centuries ago where shellfish and seafood were essential staple foods for so many, and no-one would have tolerated starving for a few days just because some unlucky sod had drowned or whatever.
  
  Just another modern bullshit cultural invention (like infrastructure taniwhas or made up celebrations like Matariki) by Maori who’s primary motive is making everyone jump through hoops to massage their egos and provide more opportunity for associated Brownmailing activities.
  
  13 0
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  November 18, 2023 2:50pm
  - Ghost
    
    I remember when I was 6 years old being told by the local iwi of which areas had a tapu on them where we lived, don’t ever go near them. I charged tourists 50 cents to take them there. I made some good coin, living there, lol.
    
    4 2
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    November 18, 2023 3:00pm
goNZ1

Police have warned people to not approach a dangerous, high-risk violent and sexual offender who cut off his ankle bracelet and went on the run.

Leslie Peter Ross, 52, has a lengthy criminal history including kidnapping, rape and wounding with intent to injure.

WHY THE HELL IS HE LET OUT OF PRISON THEN ?? I hope the new govt puts a stop to this sort of thing.
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November 18, 2023 11:34am
- Ghost
  
  Prisons should be closed, no one uses them. Yesterday two rapists had their home detention reduced to a night curfew. I think we should realize crime pays and turn NZ into a full scale lord of the flies.
  
  14 1
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  November 18, 2023 11:43am
  - kowtow
    
    Will the Royal Navy come in at the end and rescue us ?
    
    4 1
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    November 18, 2023 12:17pm
    - Ghost
      
      I think they’d abandon us out of fear they’d be lumped paying reparations
      
      4 0
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      November 18, 2023 12:25pm
- Scooter
  
  29 Sep he cut off his anklet, why only now do they notify the public? Did they want him to have a few months of freedom before they decide to do their job and look for him.
  
  12 1
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  November 18, 2023 12:00pm
  - kowtow
    
    Could they have been consulting some privacy commission or human rights type to see whether it would contravene any of his “rights”.
    
    6 2
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    November 18, 2023 12:43pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Time to sack some judges
  
  8 1
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  November 18, 2023 12:43pm
Surely Knott

When the Mandate Protestors and Israel Protestors did the Haka we Iwi elite spoke out saying they weren’t authorised to use that Haka.

I wonder how Iwi feel about brutal kidnapper, rapist on the run, Leslie Peter Ross using both traditional moko tattooing designs blended with the Black Power logo.
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November 18, 2023 11:41am
ClanMcleod

Steve Kirsch can be a bit overly dramatic at times, but his point is well made here.

An open letter to the New Zealand Ministry of Health: an offer you can’t refuse

I believe you have made a very serious mistake that is costing lives. Why not publish the anonymized record-level data just to be sure?

https://kirschsubstack.com/p/an-open-letter-to-the-new-zealand

There is undoubtedly excess all cause mortality occurring in NZ, as well as in most other countries. Release the data as proposed by Kirsch.

If the jabs truly are ‘safe and effective’ this will end the speculation and instantly restore full trust in the health system.

It will also restore faith in our ‘experts’.

It will also restore trust in the mainstream media.

It will also restore trust in our elected representatives.

The alternative is, carry on pretending nothing happened (and is continuing to happen), and confirm the opinion of many that there is a deliberate cover up, that the experimental jabs are much more deadly than many think, and ensure that the country stays broken and divided.

People might be angry with the truth, but they will forgive and move on eventually. But nothing will improve while this cowardly cop out carries on.
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November 18, 2023 12:00pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Interesting. This is the data he is asking for:
  
  – Year of birth (not the full date for privacy reasons)
  – Gender
  – Date of COVID vax #1
  – Lot # of COVID vax #1
  – Date of COVID vax #2
  – Lot # of COVID vax #2
  – Date of COVID vax #3
  – Lot # of COVID vax #3
  – Date of COVID vax #4
  – Lot # of COVID vax #4
  – Date of death (the full date, not just the year)
  
  https://kirschsubstack.com/p/a-worldwide-call-for-data-transparency
  
  So he is not asking for the cause of death. I assume he is seeking to show that all cause death rates across age groups is correlated with the numbers of vaccine shots? So unvaccinated people had the lowest death rates. People with five shots had the highest death rates.
  
  Or am I misunderstanding?
  
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  November 18, 2023 1:53pm
Surely Knott

Elon Musk says “Decolonisation” and “River to sea” imply genocide and are against the terms of service.

He’s right. And in NZ Decolonization is supported regularly by media, academics, left parties against white NZers and their culture.

Decolonisation is racist, hateful , and destructive.

I do support the renaissance of Maori culture and language but that is not the language being used. Decolonisation is destruction and removal of another culture. Not growth, revitalisation and support of your own.
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November 18, 2023 12:02pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Ah, the Humpty Dumpty approach: “When I use a word it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.”
  Try telling people from Africa, or southeast Asia, that their decolonization was ‘racist, hateful, and destructive’.
  
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  November 18, 2023 12:18pm
  - Swifty
    
    Yes, fair points.
    
    But I do hope that, here in NZ, in our headlong rush to ‘decolonise’ that we don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.
    
    I fear we are about to.
    
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    November 18, 2023 12:39pm
  - Gussy Fink-Nottle
    
    Variously, it was.
    
    And since you always appear to have the answers, I entreat you to tell us what comes after the decolonisation of NZ? What comes it its place? Will you support that, whatever it might be?
    And more pertinently, will it support you?
    
    Asking for a Zimbabwean, SA, Cambodian (etc etc) friend.
    
    14 2
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    November 18, 2023 12:47pm
    - kowtow
      
      Funny innit how the “liberators” in such places , so intent on ‘decolonisation” bring a European German/ English industrialist capitalist funded authoritarian perspective ( Marx/Engels) as the answer to their people’s struggles , sprinkled with more than a little French Revolutionary fervour .
      
      There’s no decolonisation.
      
      Just more of the same old shit for the little guy.
      
      12 2
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      November 18, 2023 1:32pm
      - Gussy Fink-Nottle
        
        Last sentence, yes.
        It’s power and money.
        It’s always power and money.
        Such things are not endemic to the ‘European perspective’.
        
        4 0
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        November 18, 2023 2:10pm
  - Taieri
    
    Try telling people from Africa
    ———–
    
    The Fate of Africa: A History of 50 Years of Independence, by Martin Meredith.
    
    This is just one book you could read before you start droning on about something that you know nothing about. There’re many others, including by African authors.
    
    4 3
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    November 18, 2023 1:43pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Plenty of indigenous people in those countries who think that decolonisation has come nowhere near delivering what was promised, Mikey.
    
    2 0
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    November 18, 2023 5:33pm
  - rouppe
    
    The difference being, that in those African countries, or in Vietnam, the colonisers were (for example) French, occupying the country, but always French.
    
    Here, we are New Zealanders. Most of us have nowhere else to go.
    
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    November 18, 2023 8:55pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  Decolonisation certainly has had its definition changed – or should I say extended? It used to just mean booting old colonial powers like Britain, France, the Dutch and other such Euros out of their colonies in Africa and Asia.
  
  Now it means something much more insidious, This is what de-colonisation means!:
  
  “what did y’all think decolonization meant? vibes? papers? essays? losers.”
  
  With the latest just spotted…
  
  When american zionists say to me “well if you think Israel isn’t a legitimate state, then wouldn’t that make the US illegitimate too?”
  
  Yes. Correct. You’re also a settler on stolen land. Are you starting to get it?
  
  Land back for all colonized people
  
  And By Any Means Necessary too! 😉
  
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  November 18, 2023 4:48pm
Benedict Yu

Well that did not take long. 🙂 Remember on the communist blogs like The Standard, they all used to write about John Key adopting policies that favoured his “rich mates”?

“The incoming National government wants to overturn the offshore gas exploration ban so its rich friends can destroy the world.””

https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2023/11/the-cost-of-climate-backsliding.html
14 2
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November 18, 2023 1:30pm
- Swifty
  
  At best I’ve never understood the logic of that argument, at worst I think it is blatant hypocrisy and totally misdirected.
  
  Whether we like it or not our economy will continue to be significantly, vitally, totally dependent on the products from the oil and gas industries for decades to come if we want our lives to continue in roughly their current form – and that assumes replacements for both energy and the thousands of other other products produced by those industries can be found in that time.
  
  That being the case, doesn’t it make far more sense to utilise our own resources (should they be able to be harvested competitively and economically) as opposed to paying other countries to buy theirs? There are other benefits too including the creation and maintenance of local jobs, reduced transportation costs and the money stays here rather than flowing off shore.
  
  The other matter which bugs me is that people like Harbrow always attack the suppliers Big Oil!) but never goes after the consumers; the very people creating the demand for these products.
  
  Where are his admonitions to his fellow New Zealanders to stop buying products created or enabled by the petro-chemical industry? When has he called for people to sell their cars? Stop buying phones or computers? Refuse to purchase anything which uses plastic in its production or distribution? Reject all synthetic fabrics? Refusing to eat food products which have used tractors, trucks, machinery or fertilisers in their production or distribution?
  
  Surely driving down demand is the best way to achieve his ends?
  
  But you just never see nor hear it from him. It’s all just beat up on the suppliers and giving National, his political opponents, a drive by lashing when he is able to.
  
  I just find much of the Left’s arguments intellectually barren. All sound and fury but little else.
  
  13 1
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  November 18, 2023 2:03pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    In September, global oil production reached an all time high of 101.6 million barrels per day.
    
    https://www.iea.org/reports/oil-market-report-october-2023
    
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    November 18, 2023 5:56pm
- rouppe
  
  It’s just a lazy way to get the socialist lines across.
  
  You’ll notice they often go on about how great the “Nordic countries” are with references to their free health care, eV uptake, schooling etc.
  
  They never mention how that is all built on the back of oil.
  
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  November 18, 2023 8:50pm
Maggie Pie

THE LAW OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1725618134520877165

QUESTION:
How on earth can a dangerous high-risk violent sex offender gang member who looks like this, cut off his ankle bracelet and stay on the run, evading police for more than 6 weeks without being recognized?

ANSWER:
Foundation.
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November 18, 2023 2:19pm
- Ghost
  
  Be interesting to know when corrections found he had done a runner.
  
  Rumour has it is that he is Wearing a disguise
  
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  November 18, 2023 2:24pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Exactly! Mark Mitchell has not thort this thru 😀
    
    6 1
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    November 18, 2023 2:35pm
    - Ghost
      
      Got to admit, seeing a long line of gang members riding down the road in drag will be a show stopper…..
      
      6 0
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      November 18, 2023 2:37pm
      - nathie
        
        With a line of excited Fa’fafines chasing after them?
        
        3 0
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        November 18, 2023 5:46pm
Chuck Bird

Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar׳s exclusive interview on BBC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYUL1R4pupU
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November 18, 2023 2:33pm
Ghost

Pat Urlich, a vocalist for 1980s hit band Peking Man, has been sentenced to prison for making intimate visual recordings and possessing objectionable material.

In 1986, Peking Man’s hit ‘Room That Echoes’ cleaned up in the New Zealand Music Awards, winning album of the year, single of the year, and band of the year, amongst other accolades.

Article
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November 18, 2023 2:35pm
- Inandout
  
  Ghost, two minutes and you fwd email from Hamas. Incredible.
  
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  November 18, 2023 2:44pm
  - Ghost
    
    Huh? You’ve lost me
    
    1 0
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    November 18, 2023 2:51pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Reminded me of the joke my partner’s mum told us….
  
  “No child of mine is going out in a skirt that short”.
  
  “Mum, I’m sixteen. I’ll wear what I want.”
  
  “Yeah, but son, you’re nuts are showing.”
  
  😀 😀 😀
  
  12 1
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  November 18, 2023 2:55pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Peking Man – Room That Echoes. Loved this tune back in the day.
  
  2 0
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  November 18, 2023 5:23pm
  - Ghost
    
    Yeah, him and Margret put out some great music from my childhood.
    
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    November 18, 2023 5:46pm
kowtow

Israeli article on the terror tunnels.

‘500 kilometers of tunnels: How Hamas built an underground city
Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar’s fledgling underground project in Gaza quickly and quietly grew into a flourishing tunnel network supplying terrorists all they need to continue fighting Israel’

https://www.ynetnews.com/magazine/article/b1xzpxbnt
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November 18, 2023 2:45pm
- Che Guava
  
  So why are they bombing above-ground targets in Gaza if Hamas is known to be underground? “Muh human shields” I suppose. The obvious problem with the human shields narrative is that this necessarily means that Israel is knowingly bombing civilians.
  
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  November 18, 2023 3:26pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The ‘Coup’ explained. No not that one – this one:

https://twitter.com/gopher_marc/status/1724821331235971457?
3 3
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November 18, 2023 3:28pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Downtick means I am on target. You know that right Mike?
  
  4 2
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  November 18, 2023 4:45pm
  - RichardX
    
    Downtick means I am on target.
    
    That always struck me as one of the dumbest comments that gets repeated here.
    
    Old Penny used it when she got downticked to oblivion.
    
    It would make Mike one of the most accurate commenters on here.
    
    3 2
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    November 18, 2023 5:47pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Hobson’s Pledge. I received this by email, but this is from the website.
Treaty Referendum –
“Christopher Luxon has repeatedly made it clear that he is opposed to New Zealanders having a say on such an important constitutional matter.”
Err, Mr Luxon, this is not Air NZ, this is not a boardroom. You now work for us.
We can not have a say? Sorry, yes we do or you will be on your arse in a lightning flash.

https://www.hobsonspledge.nz/treaty_referendum_hangs_in_the_balance?
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November 18, 2023 3:47pm
Ghost

Awww, Winston helps the media with their spin

Winston Peters left his second meeting of the day with National after less than 30 minutes – leaving without talking to media except for some departing words after rolling down his window.

“I’ve got you a present,” Peters said to Newstalk ZB political editor Jason Walls, giving him an orange, plastic spinning top.

Article
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November 18, 2023 3:53pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  OMG. Finally! After 6 long boring years of pollies like Angry, Kelvinator, et al…..
  we’ve at least got someone with a funny-bone 😀
  
  11 1
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  November 18, 2023 4:12pm
  - Ghost
    
    Poor Jason
    
    https://twitter.com/Jasonwalls92/status/1725697760060723545?
    
    4 0
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    November 18, 2023 5:24pm
    - nathie
      
      That’s nothing Jason! “Allegedly” Winston gave Tova a pantomime dress-up horse suit in praise of her quality Stuffed column yesterday! 😉
      
      4 1
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      November 18, 2023 5:42pm
Ra Henare

For the 17 KBrs with an open mind 🙂

Found this clip from Times of India.
It features a noted Israeli journalist(living in Israel) clip from 2015.

Interesting that he forecast what is happening now,

Also some humorous observations on Netanyahu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnaacT4eBrA
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November 18, 2023 4:16pm
Jack5

What is the range of agents’ commissions on NZ house sales?

The Wall Street Journal says of American house-sale commissions:

The commission on a home sale here is typically around 5% to 6%, usually split between the seller’s and buyer’s agents. In most countries, the commissions are substantially smaller.

A federal jury in Kansas City last month found America’s National Association of Realtors and large “residential brokerages” liable for about $US1.8 billion in damages after determining they conspired to keep commissions for home sales artificially high.

In NZ real estate, is it common, or are there ever, buyers’ agents plus sellers’ agents?
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November 18, 2023 4:47pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Can be both; but a buyer’s agent will claim comm directly from the buyer; while the seller’s agent claims comm from the seller.
  
  1 0
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  November 18, 2023 7:19pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

From FB:
SOMETHING TO PONDER – A mouse was placed at the top of a jar filled with grains. It was so happy to find so much food around him that no longer he felt the need to run around searching for food. Now he could happily live his life. After a few days of enjoying the grains, he reached the bottom of the jar.
Suddenly, he realize that he was trapped and he couldn’t get out. He now has to fully depend on someone to put grains in the jar for him to survive.
He now has no choice but to eat what he’s given.
A few lessons to learn from this:
1) Short term pleasures can lead to long-term traps.
2) If things come easy and you get comfortable, you are getting trapped into dependency.
3) When you are not using your skills, you will lose more than your skills. You lose your CHOICES and FREEDOM.
4) Freedom does not come easy but can be lost quickly. NOTHING comes easily in life and if it comes easily, maybe it is not worth it..
Don’t curse your struggles. They are your blessings in disguise.
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November 18, 2023 5:00pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  5) Socialism works.//
  
  4 1
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  November 18, 2023 5:01pm
Maggie Pie

We’ve just been reading the latest article in The Horrid on the coalition talks.

Looking at the accompanying photos taken in the Cordis Meeting Room, (and reading between the lines), my partner reckons….. the 3 upturned glasses on the board-table, mean an end to ‘Three-Waters’

Do we get a Top?
8 1
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November 18, 2023 5:18pm
- Ghost
  
  No, it was the cup game, whoever guesses which glass had the deputy pm badge under it won deputy pm. Judging by Seymour’s face he didn’t guess right
  
  6 0
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  November 18, 2023 5:23pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Even my partner said Davids face reminds him of a Labrador thats just been told-off for dragging his arse around on the carpet. LOL!!
    
    4 1
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    November 18, 2023 6:49pm
Maggie Pie

Following three decades of deinstitutionalisation, surely to goodness if there’s ever been a time that we should look to the re-introduction of Lunatic Asylums in this country, it’s NOW?

It just hasn’t worked.

Just saying.
7 1
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November 18, 2023 7:35pm
- Ghost
  
  I agree
  
  I’d like to nominate a name “the Dame Jacinda Ardern Asylum“. God knows she has driven enough people to needing mental health services.
  
  6 0
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  November 18, 2023 7:41pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    YIP….that does have a certain appeal.
    
    First option of course, would be to bring back the death penalty.
    But can’t see Luxo agreeing with that. However insane asylums may well provide a more palatable alternative dont you think?
    
    3 1
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    November 18, 2023 7:53pm
    - Ghost
      
      Well we can’t keep going the way we are.
      
      2 0
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      November 18, 2023 8:06pm
MCōs

Coming up for seventy years ago
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/brittenden-s-tale-of-kiwi-cricketing-heroism-117741
4 0
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November 18, 2023 7:59pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  What about you and the missus Cossie….
  for-or-against the reintroduction of Insane Asylums?
  
  4 0
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  November 18, 2023 8:22pm

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