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November 16, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 16 November 2023

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Yvette

Newsroom – Why Act’s Treaty referendum is disrespectful and arrogant
Dame Anne Salmond sets the record straight about the Act leader and his proposed Tiriti referendum

• David Seymour has been citing my work to imply that I support ACT’s attempts to rewrite Te Tiriti o Waitangi. I do not, for the following reasons. – and gives some, and concludes –

In these times of crisis, a new government will be assessed on its ability to bring New Zealanders together. ACT’s proposed approach to Te Tiriti will do the opposite. I agree with Helen Clark that it would ‘rip us down the middle,’ and with Jim Bolger that it’s a ‘bloody stupid’ idea.

So why not ignore the Treaty to some extent and as suggested yesterday –

Shouldn’t Act’s Principles be in the Introduction to the Bill of Rights. Part 1 General provisions –
1 The Government has the right to govern New Zealand.
2 The Government will protect all New Zealanders’ authority over their land and other property.
3 All New Zealanders are equal under the law with the same rights and duties
And add “4 Government shall be secular”

As a commenter commented –
With that addition to the Bill of Rights, that act begins to look like the beginnings of a constitutional document

Because at the moment we don’t really have one
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November 16, 2023 8:00am
- Benedict Yu
  
  The proposed referendum is not asking consent to “rewrite Te Tiriti o Waitangi.” It is seeking consent to put a stop to the seemingly endless ‘mission creep’ of the Treaty, promoted by activists, and which is, literally, endangering the nation as a modern, secular democracy, based on Western traditions and values which are derived from The Enlightenment.
  
  EDIT The fact that Helen Clark and Jim Bolger are having meltdowns simply provides me with reassurance that it is an excellent idea.
  
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  November 16, 2023 8:07am
  - Yvette
    
    Benedict, with respect, most of what is wrong with the Treaty, from its divergence from about 1986, is covered by the additions that could be appropriately introduced to the Bill of Rights as overall rights before personal guarantees – like, that Government should be secular, would knock on the head te Ao Maori references, and te Mana o te Wai context and the Mana o te Wai Statements, as well as the Pipa Mahuta’s Maori Advisory Council that presides over Taumata Arowai, the Water Regulator.
    
    And the four simple additions could settle Dame Anne Salamon –
    In the case of the Treaty, the key concepts in the English text – ‘sovereignty’ in Article 1, ‘property’ in Article 2, and ‘the rights and privileges of British citizens’ in Article 3; and the parallel concepts in Te Tiriti – ‘kawanatanga’ in Ture 1, ‘tino rangatiratanga’ in Ture 2, and ‘nga tikanga rite tahi’ in Ture 3 had very different meanings and practical implications.
    
    The Bill of Rights approach would later render the Treaty 1986 add-ons inappropriate and warrant the bill Winston attempted in 2005.
    
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    November 16, 2023 8:29am
    - Master Mariner
      
      So my limited understanding is First and foremost , The BOR needs additional clauses,
      First of all , We need accountability for Breaches of BOR ‘s in the first place.
      Surely, Everyone realised how it was totally trampled over during the Pandemic ?
      Adding more clauses too the BOR is the wrong approach, Surely giving it some “Teeth” would make it more resilent , With real consequences for breaching it !
      BOR’s is currently a meaningless document !
      
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      November 16, 2023 9:22am
    - I remember when
      
      The constant complaint, by the media, about the potential National/Act government is that it wants t0 return things to how they used to be.
      They don’t seem to have any such problems with the Treaty.
      
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      November 16, 2023 9:33am
    - rouppe
      
      Rights and duties, not rights and privileges
      
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      November 16, 2023 12:25pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Seymour is talking of the Principles, of which there are 31.
    The Principles are hogwash started off by idiot Geoffrey Palmer in 1989.
    He wrote 6. They all have no conclusion.
    
    https://www.hobsonspledge.nz/treaty_principles
    
    https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Treaty-Principles.pdf
    
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    November 16, 2023 9:09am
    - I remember when
      
      Principles of the Treaty:
      Kawatanga, or government.
      Even if we accept that the Maori version allows maori kawatanga, even they must agree that it would only be able to exist within Maori tribal land areas.
      It was by Maori, for Maori and only of Maori.
      It in no way influenced non-maori and was secondary to government law.
      This acceptance must restrict its continuing existence, if any, to such circumstances.
      
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      November 16, 2023 10:02am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I think the word is “KAWANATANGA” not ‘kawatanga.’
        
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        November 16, 2023 3:00pm
  - Swifty
    
    You Kiwiblog people just don’t get it!
    
    Separating us by race, giving special privileges to one race over all others, destroying equality of suffrage by race, giving one race many special entitlements and not others, is all perfectly fine – it is attempting, even suggesting, doing away with these things which is divisive!
    
    Get with the programme you fascists!
    
    //
    
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    November 16, 2023 10:03am
  - rouppe
    
    Exactly. It’s a classic tactic of the Left to restate something in negative terms, or rewrite history.
    
    What Seymour is looking to do is change recent legislation on treaty principles, based on the original three articles. That’s not rewriting the Treaty
    
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    November 16, 2023 12:23pm
- Michael Johnston
  
  The trouble with the Bill of Rights idea, to the best of my understanding, is that the Bill of Rights can be overridden by other legislation. I’m no expert on constitutional law, though, so if someone knows more, please correct me.
  
  On a related note, for those might think concern about treaty mission creep is overblown, my daughters’ school, responding to Ministry of Education directives to ‘honour the treaty’, has enshrined in its policy that children will be taught that the Māori gods are real – “not a story.” This obvious violates the principal that public education is to be secular. I’m tempted to write to the school and insist that the Norse pantheon be given equal status.
  
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  November 16, 2023 8:39am
  - thirteenstars
    
    Laws can be entrenched, which means they must be passed into law by a supermajority of the house, in NZ’s case, 75%, and need a supermajority to be amended or revoked. Many of our constitutional laws have this feature, such as the electoral term or voting age.
    
    Prime opportunity to entrench the Bill of Rights, though I can’t see National supporting that idea because they intend to wantonly violate at least two of its most important guarantees with their proposed gang laws.
    
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    November 16, 2023 9:09am
  - Matt Long
    
    Could you please let us know the name of that school?
    Animism has replaced Christianity as the spiritual basis for the law of the land and is all through regulations coming out in farcical RMA legislation. Protecting the Mauri of various physical objects is justified under the Treaty of Waitangi and leads to the loss of property rights for New Zealanders who failed to read the times and become Iwi elites.
    
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    November 16, 2023 9:21am
    - Matt Long
      
      It looks like the spiritual vacuum will be filled in western Europe by Islam which will be an interesting outcome for the geopolitical future.
      This is interesting
      https://www.foxnews.com/media/longtime-atheist-former-muslim-ayaan-hirsi-ali-reveals-now-christian
      
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      November 16, 2023 9:36am
    - Michael Johnston
      
      Matt – it’s Berhampore School in Wellington.
      
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      November 16, 2023 10:22am
      - Matt Long
        
        Thanks, Wellington hey? What a great place to live and send your kids to school.
        
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        November 16, 2023 10:38am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Please write to the school. I for one would be interested in the school and teacher’s response to Thor!
    
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    November 16, 2023 9:22am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    The Bill of Rights Act can be overridden by other legislation , but only if that legislation does so explicitly. When legislation is open to multiple interpretations, an interpretation that is consistent with the Bill of Rights Act should be chosen if possible. That would include treaty principles clauses.
    
    But I have no confidence judges would actually do that. We should remove the treaty principles clauses entirely. A more important change would be to amend the Human Rights Act to disallow ‘positive discrimination’ based on race. That would instantly rule out a ton of racial favouritism that currently exists.
    
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    November 16, 2023 9:24am
    - PeeJay
      
      This for me is the reason a binding referendum is preferable to any other legislative approach.
      
      I truly believe that in the sanctuary of the voting booth, an overwhelming majority of kiwi’s would say enough is enough and the gravy train ends.
      
      Any legislation can be overturned or amended by a future left wing government. Hell, the last six years and covid in particular, showed the utter contempt they have for the Bill of Rights!
      
      On the other hand, a solid majority in a binding referendum, well that is a lot harder to ignore. If a binding referendum was to have overwhelming success, any government trying to reverse this would most likely be punished severely at the following election.
      
      It’s not enough to temporarily change course – tinkering with legislation or departmental guidelines will all be reversed the next time the left are in power.
      
      Trust the people, let them have their say and this will be change that is very difficult to reverse.
      
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      November 16, 2023 9:34am
      - Master Mariner
        
        Personally we need to lay “Bare” the issues.
        Having a Covid Royal Commission ( In my limited mind) Will lay open all thats wrong with the Treaty, BOR’s and a myriad of other very pertinent issues for everyone too see.
        Once open and transparent and layed “Bare” then and only then can we come up with a working Solution.
        Hiding it under the carpet does absolutely nothing for Democracy in NZ.
        “In order too heal the infection , You must first open and clean it.”
        Until that happens then the “merry go around ” continues.
        
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        November 16, 2023 10:18am
      - Paulus
        
        But we need a Government first, not NZ First one with Act attached.
        Cannot see any agreement before Christmas/New Year break as Parliament will not be able to sit before Christmas despite what Luxon wants and now new Finance legislation and tax adjustments cannot be acted upon.
        Will make Peter’s day to make life awkward for Luxon, so the Peters can do more photoshoots instead.
        Heard Act this morning – tail trying to wag the do still – he will be lucky to get reelected next time – amateur as Peters will continue to walk over him, with his % dropped a lot on the weeks prior to the election.
        He will have to do what Peters wants although Peters cannot stand Seymour as a person.(nor Luxon and so many other people)
        So we know that another election will have to be considered.
        On the assumption that the Electoral Commission can be able not to stuff it like last time (sic)
        May we live in interesting times (although Confucius did not say that ) as the next few weeks will just feature Peters laughing as he can stuff National which he still hates personally.
        
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        November 16, 2023 10:38am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        On the other hand, 40%+ voted Left at the last election, even after 6 years of shit.
        
        Counting on the common sense of the man on the Clapham omnibus may not provide the desired outcome.
        
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        November 16, 2023 12:26pm
  - Yabster
    
    Good article by Chris Trotter on that issue- Mapp gets a mention- now I know why the Law Commission has gone woke…
    
    https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/11/16/it-is-time-to-choose-2/
    
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    November 16, 2023 9:38am
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      I am not on the Law Commission, and haven’t been since July 2017. I was the most conservative member when I was on.
      If I was still on the LC, I wouldn’t be making any comments on the Treaty.
      
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      November 16, 2023 11:07am
  - lifesgood
    
    Remove your child from that school forthwith.
    
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    November 16, 2023 12:18pm
- Cassandra
  
  Salmon’s column gives next to no reasons for her opposition to the ACT proposal. It’s simply her opinion, and quoting Clark and Bolger, ACT’s political opponents, is mystifying. Parliament stated that the ToW has principles but failed to define them, opening the door for a creative court. Parliament must define the principles, something that Clark and Bolger failed to do when they held office. The faux outrage now is hypocritical.
  
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  November 16, 2023 8:40am
- imalwaysright
  
  Yvette
  
  It would be interesting to know how much public money has been spent based on the recipient being maori.
  
  Those citizens who support spending in this manner should register with the government and commit to solely funding it as a separate group.
  
  Giving a local iwi power of attorney over their affairs and property would also be a nice touch.
  
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  November 16, 2023 8:44am
- Loddenthinks
  
  “In these times of crisis and division, manufactured by the previous government, a new government will be assessed on its ability to bring New Zealanders together, and having a referendum on what the Treaty of Waitangi means to the nation of New Zealand is an excellent and appropriate place to begin that difficult but crucial process.”
  
  Fixed it for ya Annie. You’re welcome.
  
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  November 16, 2023 8:55am
- Positan
  
  Dame Anne Salmond’s statement underlines just how little she has been able to grasp of the essentials of such a simple issue. As “anthropologist and environmentalist” it would seem she’s either too highly qualified to absorb the elemental simplicity of ACT’s policy, or that she’s just another politically-bent activist who fears that even the asking of a simple question of the populace is somehow damaging to the over-advantaged lot of Maori elites and their downtrodden multi-millionaire backers like Willie Jackson.
  
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  November 16, 2023 8:56am
  - Taieri
    
    Dame Anne Salmond’s statement underlines just how little she has been able to grasp of the essentials of such a simple issue.
    ————-
    
    With all due respect, her credentials as an “anthropologist and environmentalist” are as useful in this particular discussion as if they would have been if she was a plumber or a cabinet maker that is completely meaningless. Does being an “anthropologist and environmentalist” (or a plumber or a cabinet maker for that matter) translate to being an expert on the constitutional law? Methinks not…
    
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    November 16, 2023 9:14am
    - Positan
      
      My point exactly.
      
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      November 16, 2023 9:55am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The latter. She is part of the problem. We could do without her nonsense.
    
    https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/bruce-moon-systematically-takes-activist-dame-anne-salmonds-history-apar/
    
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    November 16, 2023 9:28am
  - Burtland
    
    the anointed elites have been herded out for public viewing and are banging their gongs – best ignored
    
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    November 16, 2023 10:02am
- Handyman
  
  ACT have no marketing nous. They were silly to call it a referendum on the treaty.
  They should have pre-written and proposed a “Honour the Treaty bill”, which would be subject to ratification by referendum.
  
  The only response of the left will be to have a discussion on what the treaty means. ie the principles.
  
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  November 16, 2023 9:35am
  - Paulus
    
    ACT Amateurs !
    
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    November 16, 2023 10:44am
  - leoj
    
    On the other hand, it has revealed exactly who the bullies are amongst maori.
    
    If Luxon caves to the bullies and fails to agree with Seymour and Peters, then he needs to go, both as PM and leader of the namby-pambies.
    
    If Seymour and Peters fail to drag Luxon, kicking and screaming, they too should resign from their leader positions.
    
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    November 16, 2023 11:17am
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      And who would you replace Luxon with? Most of his front bench is equally wet.
      
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      November 16, 2023 1:56pm
Benedict Yu

Just when I hope that I have seen peak madness, not a chance. 🤡

Wellington City Council provides advice to Wellington folk who are experiencing “Anipā o te huringa āhuarangi”. What is that I hear you ask? “Climate change anxiety”, a crippling fear that there is no point in living because climate change is going to end humanity.

https://wellington.govt.nz/climate-change-sustainability-environment/climate-change/climate-change-in-wellington/climate-change-anxiety

The New Zealand Psychological Society has formed a task force to formulate best practice in dealing with climate change anxiety.

https://www.psychology.org.nz/public/climate-change

Of course in the land of the free and very expensive healthcare, things have gone further. Psychiatrists are prescribing psychedelic drugs to young people who are suffering from crippling anxiety because of climate change.

“Psychedelic therapies may have a growing role in supporting this unique trauma and grief. By exploring and utilizing these tools in our sessions, some of my patients have experienced a reduction of their anxiety symptoms, more acceptance and awareness of their emotions and increased energy and motivation toward environmental activism.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/11/03/psychedelics-therapy-climate-change-eco-anxiety/

Coming to New Zealand soon.

I like to think that I have a reasonable understanding of climate change. However it does not rank in the top 100 things that make me anxious.
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November 16, 2023 8:02am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Council must have watched AOC, who says we only have 12 years left.
  Cow farts.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8H4EL6T2qc
  
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  November 16, 2023 8:14am
  - Blackbob
    
    She said the same thing ten years ago…
    
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    November 16, 2023 8:17am
  - Grumpy Silver Haired Female
    
    Cow belches.
    
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    November 16, 2023 8:28am
- Paulus
  
  Doesn’t the Wellington Mayor want to see its Airport Shares but not to help settle debts but to put towards Green everything ?
  She is supported by the Wellington Green MPs I am sure
  
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  November 16, 2023 8:14am
- Blackbob
  
  Another thing to add to the list of stuff not to be “taught” in schools. Eco nazism in the guise of “earth science” has more to do with making kids feel anxious and unhappy than any other thing.
  
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  November 16, 2023 8:21am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Yep, Got too Demoralise them while they young and developing, So too grow up and be a useful activist in the next “Great” Cause / Crusade.
    Stalin would be smiling in his grave.
    
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    November 16, 2023 10:23am
    - artemisia
      
      MM, did you notice the Marsden Fund approval for a seafarers covid related study?
      
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      November 16, 2023 11:23am
      - Master Mariner
        
        No. Any links. I know some great stuff was done via Missions to seaman.
        However the foreign seafarers were excluded?
        
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        November 16, 2023 12:20pm
      - artemisia
        
        https://www.royalsociety.org.nz/what-we-do/funds-and-opportunities/marsden/awarded-grants/marsden-fund-highlights/2023-marsden-fund-highlights/navigating-labour-mobilities-seafarers-after-covid-19/
        
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        November 16, 2023 1:07pm
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        ” societies that nurture strong and collaborative cultural values”
        
        “It’s time to hear their stories”
        
        Just lovely!
        
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        November 16, 2023 2:02pm
      - artemisia
        
        Worth contacting them to at least be on the list for a copy of the report. Quite likely you would be contacted for the study, not that many NZ Masters affected. Interesting take on covid though.
        
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        November 16, 2023 2:07pm
      - Master Mariner
        
        Thanks Artemisia,
        I expect her inbox to be filled with a majority of 400 seafarers on our database soon.
        Currently at sea but will investigate when back further, can not help but think there is an alterior motive.
        But end of the day , the total disdain showed too NZ seafaring community, It is hard not too think othetwise.
        
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        November 16, 2023 3:57pm
- Ipanema69
  
  But but but Jacinda said that climate change was her nuclear free moment. You mean that it hasnt been fixed?
  
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  November 16, 2023 8:22am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Don’t worry about that, she is raving at Harvard today about Gaza
    
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    November 16, 2023 9:47am
    - kowtow
      
      That’s great to hear .
      
      I hope she points out that there was a ceasefire , prior to Oct 7 .That civilian infrastructure should never be used for terrorism . That women’s and children’s rights are paramount and that men must never abuse vulnerable folk in the promtion of their political or religious agenda . That Great Power politics and imperialism from religious leaders in Tehran is unacceptable esp when visited so cruelly on innocent festival goers and farming communities . That rocket fire from yemen , gaza and lebanon is in breach of all international norms .
      That the pursuit of true democracy , capitalism and tolerant secularism is what creates the conditions for all people to live harmonious , peaceful and stable lives.
      
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      November 16, 2023 10:44am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Didn’t reward much of it because vomit in mouth, but you can bet ya boots she never said Israel has the right to defend its self against terrorists.
        
        She will be in sighting the nut jobs we have seen on US streets saying death to the Jews
        
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        November 16, 2023 11:20am
      - leoj
        
        Excellent point.
        
        Hamas broke the ceasefire yet now they are complaining and are supported by their friends in the media.
        
        We deserve a better media….
        
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        November 16, 2023 11:24am
- Inandout
  
  BY, add climate anxiety to Palestine and oil anxiety and you have some constantly stressed and seriously fucked up individuals.
  
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  November 16, 2023 8:23am
- Taieri
  
  folk who are experiencing “Anipā o te huringa āhuarangi”
  ————-
  
  I’m also afflicted by this condition, but so far couldn’t put a name to it. Its physical effects are particularly concerning. It has greatly reduced my physical fitness, for example I can’t run as fast now as I did when I was 20 years old, and recently had to use a trolley to carry bags of cement, which only 40 odd years ago I used to carry on my shoulders. I felt quite powerless about it, but now, knowing that I’m grievously affected by Anipa o te huringa ahuarangi and being aware that I’m not alone in this never ceasing battle will make my suffering incredibly easier.
  
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  November 16, 2023 8:49am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Are you sure you haven’t got Kowheori roa?
    
    https://www.waitematadhb.govt.nz/hospitals-clinics/north-shore-hospital/long-covid/
    
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    November 16, 2023 9:29am
    - Taieri
      
      No, it’s definitely Anipā o te huringa āhuarangi, (magnified no doubt by an old age).
      
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      November 16, 2023 9:32am
      - Paulus
        
        Taieri
        Eh ?
        
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        November 16, 2023 10:46am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Long covid = vaccine injury.
      
      I know an awful lot of unjabbed people, almost all have had covid. Not one of them has every said they had long covid.
      
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      November 16, 2023 9:54am
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        Long covid is an unfortunate term, as viral illnesses have always had potential for ‘long’ symptoms such as chronic fatigue.
        In the scheme of billions of viral infections from 2020 there will be people who get this from yet another Corona virus. Shouldn’t be shocking. Occams razor. What would be presupposing more in the way of assumptions is that only non-vaccinated people would be immune to the usual post-virus very-rare side effects.
        I personally do not know a single person in all my social, workplace or other acquaintance discussions who have mentioned they or someone they know is either “vaccine injured” or has “long covid”. Lockdowns were stupid and mandates were wrong seems to be a general consensus amongst casual chats, but it is only on Kiwiblog that I see shrill accusations and assertions made daily.
        Depending on the way you look at ‘facts’ in the age of mass information though every swallow can make a summer.
        And on the subject of fables, the blind men looking at an elephant would also suffice as a metaphor for these almost religious convictions.
        
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        November 16, 2023 12:11pm
      - mawm
        
        Fuzzy – “I personally do not know a single person in all my social, workplace or other acquaintance discussions who have mentioned they or someone they know is either “vaccine injured” or has “long covid””.
        
        I think that the general public are unable to comprehend that the injuries they are experiencing as due to the vaccine. I don’t have a large social circle but I know of 4 – the healthy 30 y.o. son of a friend who did not wake up one morning, a young woman with acute onset Graves disease (auto-immune thyroiditis) who over a month lost many kilograms, my healthy brother with no family history of or any symptoms of ischaemic heart disease, no hypertension, not overweight who had a massive heart attack and now has severely reduced cardiac function, and my cousin’s husband (early 60’s) who presented and died within 6 months of fulminant metastatic carcinoma, the primary site unidentified.
        
        They could all be not vaccine induced but they were all normal healthy adults who have had such unusually acute and severe presentations that one has to pause and think.
        
        It is only when our MoH does its job and analysis the numbers and sees the uptick of all the disease which could be as a result of the vaccines that we will get a proper idea. At the moment they are either in denial or cover-up mode.
        
        The US group-life insurance industry (they insure the healthiest demographic – the working person) has identified a massive increase in deaths amongst their clients, and data collected by the US federal government have identified a marked increase in people unable to work/unable to work their full job-hours due to disability.
        
        It is this kind of signal that will get researchers to collate data from around the world and give us a better idea of the damage done. It is still early days but there many hints as to the severity of the problem.
        
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        November 16, 2023 1:09pm
      - miltonF
        
        @mawm
        
        Exactly. A mid 30’s friend of mine took the jab and essentially had a stroke and went blind in one eye. They think it is just bad luck…
        
        It is the total control of the information and narrative that is keeping people in the dark. The numbers don’t lie. I wonder if these injured people realise that there has been a large uptick in the diseases they are experiencing over the last couple of years? I wonder if they realise 100’s of kiwis are dying per week above normal numbers? I don’t think they do to be honest. The media and govt has not informed them, so they think it’s just unlucky that their 15yr old child has been hospitalised with heart issues.
        
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        November 16, 2023 3:49pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Fuzzysnuggleduck – without actually realising it you’ve highlighted the fact that the whole idea of ‘long covid’ is a narrative construct.
        
        NOBODY has ever heard of ‘long flu’. Yet, as you point out, these symptoms are common after a relatively serious, though not exceptional respiratory illness.
        ‘Long covid’ is a nonsensical concept made up to help cover the extensive, numerous vaccine injuries that are now beyond doubt.
        
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        November 16, 2023 10:06pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  More use of Hegelian dialect to either a) make money – b) gain or increase power -or c) a combination of both.
  
  IF and that’s a really big IF – there is a substantial group of people who genuinely suffer from fear of climate change, then that is an artificial state that has been created by others for some ulterior motive.
  
  If people weren’t bombarded with words and images almost every minute of every day that they are awake, there would be no such thing.
  Nothing unusual has happened in the last 100 years in regards to climate.
  Without the constant stream of alarming media content, 99.99% of people wouldn’t even know there was a ‘climate crisis’.
  
  That’s because there isn’t one.
  
  By the way, if you run this same observation over the ‘covid pandemic’, the exact same outcome would apply. Nobody would know there was a pandemic except for the fact we were bombarded with a massive media campaign which deliberate or not, was little more than a next level, brainwashing exercise on a massive scale.
  
  Never in the history of humanity has so much ‘information’ been able to be transmitted to so many people in so many forms. It is possible that this could be of benefit to society as a whole, but it isn’t looking good so far.
  
  The last 4 years in particular have been traumatic. The messaging has been subliminally and actively terrifying, disease, war, ‘climate catastrophe’. None of this terror messaging is relevant to the vast majority of people. None of it is actually applicable to the vast majority of people. If they weren’t told there was a problem there wouldn’t be one.
  
  No wonder mental health problems are rapidly increasing everywhere.
  
  I’m seriously considering ditching the lot and concentrating on what I see outside my window and whatever comes my way as I go about my daily business.
  
  I might die in an unexpected Tsunami that I didn’t know about because I didn’t have a cellphone with a compulsory, screaming, scary alarm to warn me about it, but at least my life up until that point would be relaxed and enjoyable. No more endless worrying about things that rarely if ever will have any impact on me.
  
  I’ll take that over a permanent state of fear, that isn’t living, it’s dying by a thousand cuts.
  
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  November 16, 2023 8:51am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    It is a reasonable bet that most of the people presenting with climate anxiety have nothing else to be anxious about, that is, they are teenagers, or at the very least, have no children. I very much doubt that people worried about the cost of petrol, food, rent and buying new shoes for their children give climate change any thought whatsoever.
    
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    November 16, 2023 8:59am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      +10 BY.
      
      It is manufactured crisis for ulterior motives. For media it is sales/clicks/likes for profit. They have zero interest in the negative outcomes of their amplification of this fear.
      
      The biggest questions should be around who funds these totally non organic organisations like ‘Stop Oil’ or similar like ‘BLM’.
      
      There is a lot of money driving this. Same with the gender narrative which has exploded in recent times. Same with the covid ‘crisis’.
      
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      November 16, 2023 9:11am
      - Taieri
        
        The biggest questions should be around who funds these totally non organic organisations like ‘Stop Oil’ or similar like ‘BLM’.
        ———
        
        Uncle Google helps with answering this question:
        
        https://whynow.co.uk/read/who-is-funding-just-stop-oil-the-billionaires-backing-the-art-vandals
        
        https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/10/19/just-stop-oil-bankrolled-non-profit-funded-oil-heiress/
        
        https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/10/climate/climate-protesters-paid-activists.html
        
        (this one is paywalled)
        
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        November 16, 2023 9:29am
      - cmm
        
        Taieri: The funding is what creates the most extreme behaviour. If you want to be funded, then you must be noticed. The easiest way to be noticed is through extreme behaviour.
        
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        November 16, 2023 10:04am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Taieri after recently reading The Guardian comments section and noticing the fact that about 40% of NZ voted for the Greens/Labout/TPM after what NZ has just been through, I despair at the tsunami of idiocy we are up against in the west.
        
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        November 16, 2023 12:10pm
    - kowtow
      
      ‘I very much doubt that people worried about the cost of petrol, food, rent and buying new shoes for their children give climate change any thought whatsoever.’
      
      Not so sure . There seems to be an awful lot of “Teal” type voters swayed by all the propaganda or influencers or media .or whatever .
      
      These are allegedly white middle mothers .
      
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      November 16, 2023 10:01am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Didn’t you post yesterday BY that we are allegedly in an “unprecedented in 150,000 years warming acceleration phase” and my ice core proxy charts (Antarctica and Greenland only) somehow showed that? They didn’t show that from what I could see. Not enough resolution for that to be seen. Presumably that claim was something people should be concerned about?
      
      I’m trying to reconcile that with what you just wrote above. Even if there was an “unprecedented” momentary (in the scale of the last million years say) acceleration, it means nothing and proves nothing, given all the other huge wholes shot through the crapola alarmist hypothesis.
      
      Who do regard as credible in this whole debate (in terms of institutions and scientists)?
      
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      November 16, 2023 12:07pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I think Te Reo is working in the same fashion.
    Learn or we will make you learn.
    
    Climate change is a hoax. I go back to Exit Glacier in Seward, Alaska. There are marker pegs and signs showing where the face of the Glacier used to be 80 years ago. What they don’t tell you is the Glacier face used to be at the sea, Resurrection Bay some 12 miles away, before the Industrial Revolution!
    A hoax, a con, theft, scaremongering, call it what you want.
    
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    November 16, 2023 8:59am
    - thirteenstars
      
      Same at Fox (or Franz Josef) glacier on the West Coast. Along the access road are marker pegs going back as I recall to the 1800s showing the terminal of the glacier.
      
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      November 16, 2023 9:12am
    - imalwaysright
      
      S.O
      
      I have solved global warming/ boiling/ roasting .
      
      I will soon be selling thermometers that are 10% longer.
      
      That should buy us some time.
      
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      November 16, 2023 9:52am
    - Master Mariner
      
      I prefer Science that clearly shows we are coming out of the Mini Ice age, Nothing more, Nothing less.
      
      https://www.space.com/milankovitch-cycles
      
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      November 16, 2023 10:31am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Ill put your name down for one.
        
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        November 16, 2023 11:34am
  - Master Mariner
    
    “Demoralise” the masses first, Then you can reshape them with your own solution.
    
    The Soviets were a great demoraliser.
    
    With Social Media, How many ways can you demoralise the population ?
    
    FWIW It apparently takes 15 years too demoralise a population through messaging etc.
    
    I have not got any links, But Im sure if interested you can find them.
    
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    November 16, 2023 9:32am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Somehow I have survived the threat of Nuclear winter, Ozone hole depletion, Acid rain… and now I’m proofing my property against the impending East-Coast drought….(well, I will start once the swamp on my front lawn evaporates).
    
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    November 16, 2023 9:36am
    - kowtow
      
      y2k was another huge beatup , now they’re trying to scare us with AI .
      
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      November 16, 2023 10:03am
      - artemisia
        
        Actually Y2K was by no means a total beatup. Maybe a bit. A huge amount of prior remediation happened, and regression testing immediately after the clock ticked over. If not done there would have been serious consequences.
        
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        November 16, 2023 11:34am
      - Bridgenag
        
        We were in America with friends hiding guns and barricading themselves in for the 2000 computer disasters. Lol
        
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        November 16, 2023 12:17pm
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        AI is scary. In fact, half of the people posting on Kiwiblog are Chat GBT AI bots.
        You can tell them by the lack of spelling and grammatical errors.
        G the Giant from Dunedin, aside from myself, is the only person posting here who I am 100% certain is a human.
        
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        November 16, 2023 12:18pm
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      Satanic ritual child abuse….Now there was a social and moral panic that was worth getting fired up about!
      
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      November 16, 2023 12:15pm
    - Ghost
      
      And even more drastic, you survived Jacinda.
      
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      November 16, 2023 12:26pm
- cmm
  
  Kids are having this crap pushed down their throats from an early age in a relentless barrage.
  
  If you really believe the world is catch fire in 10 years, then why bother with education etc (which only has a long payback horizon)? Rather just indulge in Tiktok and partying.
  
  Quite frankly, it isn’t surprising that some kids are ignoring school. It is more surprising that any are showing up at all.
  
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  November 16, 2023 8:56am
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    A David Attenborough documentary stating that the equator may become a savannah – on top of his predictions in another about dust bowls and food production collapsing – plus his walrus commit suicide and seabirds feeding plastic to their chicks stuff – has undone all the decades of respect and actual joy I found in his work.
    It is a bit like the failed predictions you would be able to sail a boat to the south pole by now.
    It goes beyond environmentalism and love of nature into a dubious ideology and very political.
    
    Climate change is a millennial religious cult.
    It has the sinners {car fascists}, missionaries and flagellants, and promises the world will end unless we turn from our ways.
    It really does play to an innate human tendency toward religious mania and psychological obsession.
    
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    November 16, 2023 12:25pm
- JackRabbit
  
  “Psychedelic therapies may have a growing role in supporting this unique trauma and grief. By exploring and utilizing these tools in our sessions, some of my patients have experienced a reduction of their anxiety symptoms, more acceptance and awareness of their emotions and increased energy and motivation toward environmental activism.”
  
  Brainwashing.
  
  …and increased energy and motivation toward environmental activism.
  
  Should read:
  
  We use water therapy. First we make them take a cold shower to wake them up, and then pour cold water on their climate activism by:
  [1] Taking them on hikes out in nature, specifically to tidal gauges and the records of said tidal gauges to show them that the rate of sea level rise is not increasing.
  
  [2] Put them in simulation chambers that re-create temperatures at various times in the past 2000 years, along with 3D simulations of what happened to make them realise that our ancestors experienced far higher temperatures than we are experiencing now.
  
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  November 16, 2023 8:56am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Climate anxiety has parallels with the transgender epidemic. Man made hysteria. In all of human history teenage girls were not suddenly declaring that they were boys. If one occasionally did, they would be placed on psychiatric care. Now they are celebrated, given testosterone, and booked in for a mastectomy. 😭
    
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    November 16, 2023 9:08am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Christchurch crèche madness
      
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      November 16, 2023 2:24pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      I wouldn’t be unhappy if social media was banned worldwide. It seems to be the cause of much bad craziness.
      
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      November 16, 2023 8:06pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    Stop looking through the trees to see the forrest //
    
    You will cancelled due to misinformation soon//
    
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    November 16, 2023 9:35am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    [3] Put them in a hyperbaric chamber and pump some oxygen into their nearly defunct brains.
    
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    November 16, 2023 10:17am
- Loddenthinks
  
  That’s nowhere near peak madness, Benedict. Waimate District Council has recently hired a “Climate Change Officer” which must surely be the most pointless sinecure ever devised, especially in New Zealand.
  
  Quite how Waimate, one of the smallest and least populated, least industrialised regions in the country, can make the slightest scintilla, the merest iota of difference to the climate is yet to be explained.
  
  What’s even worse is the news that most territorial authorities have at least one such position, and some have up to six! Great value for rate-payers that must be.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/133252343/community-engagement-primary-focus-for-waimate-districts-climate-change-officer#:~:text=In%20a%20first%20for%20the,for%20the%20area%20by%202025.
  
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  November 16, 2023 9:00am
  - Taieri
    
    Quite how Waimate, one of the smallest and least populated, least industrialised regions in the country, can make the slightest scintilla, the merest iota of difference to the climate is yet to be explained.
    ————-
    
    By showing the real leadership in dealing with this crucial issue. It is going to be the proverbial small stone, which will start an avalanche. And then, when this happens, the biggest polluters will have to follow. People such as Xi Jinping and Narendra Modi will no longer be able to ignore their contribution to the catastrophic global boiling when they learn of the exemplary efforts of the Waimate Climate Change Officer.
    
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    November 16, 2023 9:26am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      You’re right of course. I can picture Modi now, saying to his cabinet “Forget about the bloody cricket, Waimate is making us look bad!”
      
      “Waimate?, they ask. “I thought they were famous only for feral wallabies.”
      
      “True, says Modi, shaking his head from side to side in the way that Indian gentlemen do, “But now they have a (gasp!) climate change officer”
      
      Cue sage advice from another Indian gentleman (NSFW)
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bPJiYOPBxg
      
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      November 16, 2023 10:52am
    - ISeeRed
      
      Let me offer my preemptive congratulations to the appointment of Waimate’s future “Lunar Colonisation Administrator” and “Nuclear Fusion Project Leader”.
      
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      November 16, 2023 3:03pm
  - cmm
    
    When your job relies on a “there’s a monster under the bed” style problems then you can guarantee there is no motivation to fix any problems, but plenty of motivation to keep telling the kids how dangerous the monster is.
    
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    November 16, 2023 10:10am
  - I remember when
    
    Loddenthinks:
    Clearly a ‘Climate Change Officer” is one of the most important Council appointments.
    Without one how can the Council ensure that the necessary rain falls on “drought’ years.
    They will also be multi-purpose by reducing rainfall during times of flooding.
    
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    November 16, 2023 2:22pm
- Clown
  
  Those with ‘climate change anxiety’ should reduce their carbon footprint by removing themselves from this planet.
  
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  November 16, 2023 9:07am
- kowtow
  
  Pity the banks are at it too.
  
  ‘Westpac bank has set a target for cutting the emissions of the farms it lends to.’
  
  https://www.odt.co.nz/rural-life/dairy/westpac-sets-emission-targets-farms-it-lends
  
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  November 16, 2023 9:23am
  - pdm
    
    None of the banks bloody business.
    
    Their job is twofold:
    1. Lend the money to legitimate borrowers.
    2. Ensure such loans are repaid over time – which is usually set at the time of borrowing.
    
    As long as the money lent is not being used for illegal purposes and all loan conditions are met then it is none of the banks concern how the borrower operates their business.
    
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    November 16, 2023 9:57am
    - cmm
      
      Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your point of view), the banks can place these limitations on how depositor’s funds are loaned out. This is done to promote themselves as suitably woke and “ethical”.
      
      All those Kiwisaver funds fall over themselves to appeal to woke investors, many saying they do not invest in weapons companies, oil companies, etc… and now “dirty” farms.
      
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      November 16, 2023 2:30pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    They can best help that pointless aim by never visiting the farms they lend money to – mostly at usurious rates too, it must be said.
    
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    November 16, 2023 10:46am
- zulumonster
  
  I’m suffering from Wellington City Council Anxiety (not sure of the Maori name for that sorry) … and I can assure you it is far more damaging to my mental, physical and financial health than anything the climate is doing.
  
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  November 16, 2023 10:52am
  - riffer
    
    Māharahara mo te Kaunihera Taone o Pōneke, I would speculate, is pretty close.
    
    But I would suggest Māharahara mo te Kaunihera Taone o Pōneke koretake is more accurate.
    
    Adding koretake makes the difference.
    
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    November 16, 2023 11:56am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Riffer sane people with busy lives in the real world don’t care. If you want to force Maori language on people use the democratic process to make it mandatory in primary school.
      
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      November 16, 2023 12:13pm
      - riffer
        
        Methinks you protest too much mate. I was trying to be helpful, not forcing anything on anyone. The previous post enquired as to what the te reo for Wellington City Council was, and I tried to help by giving them a te reo translation of “Anxiety about the useless Wellington City Council”.
        
        Rather than have a go at me because I committed the sin of saying something in the forbidden language, perhaps you should ask yourself why you had that reaction.
        
        A sane person is not scared of another language. A busy person does not resile from learning something. And the real world is not populated by small minded folks who espouse the tyranny of the majority upon others.
        
        You would do well to consider that, at the current rate of population growth, maori and asians may well relegate English-only speakers to the minority eventually. Possibly within your lifetime. Disclaimer: I do not know how old you are, but I would speculate possibly of retirement age as folks that age seem to be a bit worried that our multicultural society is becoming the majority.
        
        I hold no antagonism towards you. You are entitled to your opinion. But you should be prepared for it to become a minority one.
        
        Notwithstanding the PC nonsense that seems to pervade our society todays, we are becoming more and more multicultural. Time to learn some tolerance, because not everything about multiculturalism is bad.
        
        Have a nice day.
        
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        November 16, 2023 7:27pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Riffer: “Time to learn some tolerance, because not everything about multiculturalism is bad.”
        
        Thanks for the typical bigotry filled lefty lecture.
        
        Experience suggests multiculti is very bad if you do it wrong. Some cultures do not play well with others. This is plain to see.
        
        Aside from that, I stick with my point. Having a bunch of self righteous (minority) media and activist twats thinking they have the right to force pigeon Maori/English on the population is not the way to go. Hold a referendum on whether school children should learn Maori or not (personally I wouldn’t be against it, so don’t make bigoted lefty assumptions about age groups).
        
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        November 16, 2023 8:14pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Hang in there, z. Only 23 months until the next elections.
    
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    November 16, 2023 11:58am
Simon

A government that serves the people not ESG / DEI doctrine. Its not hard and at the moment the true measure of this incoming government.
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November 16, 2023 8:07am
- Master Mariner
  
  Thankfully ESG is seen for what it is , A scam.
  Now waiting for the Reserve Bank of NZ to wipe all ESG from its website//
  https://www.ft.com/content/d4082c75-3141-4a58-935b-60a44c22897a
  A modern day Government istituted Pyramid scheme.
  There is a fool born every day, However not on a Global/Governmental scale such as ESG.
  
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  November 16, 2023 9:39am
Vinicius

Michael Baker thinks New Zealand needs its own Center for Disease Control (CDC). I’m would need some serious convincing this is good idea currently bearing in mind the shambles the health system is.

If we were going to have one, I wouldn’t want Baker involved in anyway. I’m not a Covid conspiracy theorist but I’m sick of hearing Baker’s pronouncements from on high like he’s the self appointed Pope of Covid-19 in NZ.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/502520/nz-needs-centre-for-disease-control-experts-say
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November 16, 2023 8:09am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  It’s worth flicking to this link in the article and looking at who the briefing is intended for and where most of the authors ‘work’.
  “new paper by scientists from the Public Health Communication Centre”
  https://www.phcc.org.nz/briefing/why-we-need-aotearoa-centre-disease-control-cdc
  
  It would seem that Otago Uni’s academics haven’t read the memo advising that the Govt Trough Building Dept has been booted ……
  
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  November 16, 2023 9:36am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Vinicius – no offence, but that’s the very last thing this country needs.
  
  The CDC is one of the most compromised, corrupt organisations in the US. I haven’t time to dig up the numbers, I’m heading to golf shortly, but last I looked, over 65% of their funding comes from pharmaceutical companies.
  
  Fox and henhouse come to mind.
  
  Our own Medsafe have some major concerning flaws. I won’t go as far as saying corruption, but their total failure or inability to check the safety claims of Pfizer re the jabs is extremely concerning.
  
  Not sure about you, but I was under the impression that this was their role, checking medicines for safety.
  It turns out Medsafe basically rubber stamped data provided to them by Pfizer, THE most corrupt corporation in world history.
  
  The government apparently did receive some warning about concerning data for young males in particular, which the government deliberately covered up or removed so the public wouldn’t be put off getting the job.
  A pure act of malfeasance for which those responsible should be on criminal charges.
  
  Something needs to change, trust in key organisations is under serious threat. In particular trust in health authorities is at an all time low. Much of this due to the hysterical and ludicrous response to covid.
  
  The complete failure of these same authorities to acknowledge the ineffectiveness of this experiment by continuing to promote boosters is inexcusable.
  As is their blanket refusal to admit that masks and lockdowns were not only useless, but caused far more harm than good.
  
  The actions of politicians is next level malfeasance.
  
  We need to see a serious investigation and overhaul of Medsafe. We need to restore trust and that will only happen with transparency and accountability.
  
  We do not need a pharmaceutical company funded, rubber stamping bureaucracy full of overpaid, underperforming technocrats. We already have one of those.
  
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  November 16, 2023 9:42am
  - Vinicius
    
    I stated that I would need serious convincing this a good idea currently. See my second sentence.
    
    Medsafe is but one example of the shambles the health system is in.
    
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    November 16, 2023 9:46am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Yes I read your post fully. I wasn’t criticising.
      
      My point is, the CDC are the very last example of what this country needs. There is no convincing to be done. They are a bought and owned, corrupted entity. It doesn’t surprise me that Baker is shilling for them.
      
      We have an organisation. Medsafe. As I said, it just needs a massive investigation and overhaul.
      
      Michael Baker is a WHO shill. Just like Ashley Bloomfield. Just like Ardern is a WEF/UN shill.
      All parts of the same agenda.
      
      They don’t work for NZ. Let’s see if the new government can address these extremely worrying problems of unelected entities infiltrating our systems and return true, representative democracy to NZ.
      
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      November 16, 2023 10:03am
  - Master Mariner
    
    “It turns out Medsafe basically rubber stamped data provided to them by Pfizer,”
    Then Pfizer turn it around and say all Countries around the World approved it through there own thorough testing regime to prove it was safe and effective.
    Jesus Christ // What a shit show.
    
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    November 16, 2023 10:44am
- Master Mariner
  
  He is a trend in Global Pandemic response , Used and dumped as collateral damage ( useful Idiot), Left trying too fly a broken flag.
  Meanwhile the true instigators have moved elsewhere.
  
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  November 16, 2023 9:43am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    The puppets like Bloomfield and Ardern have moved on, job done. Baker may well be a complete moron and the ultimate useful idiot who hasn’t been told the game is up.
    
    Left behind on the battlefield like one of those Japanese soldiers found in the jungle thirty years after the war.
    
    Couldn’t happen to a better candidate than this clown.
    
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    November 16, 2023 10:07am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Actually Tell me who is left in there Position in the Western World.
      They all have gone ( Too Greener Pastures), Except the useful idiots such as Baker.
      However the Ethiopion ( Ex Terriost) is still the Grand Poo Bar of WHO.
      
      https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/who-chief-tedros-adhanom-ghebreyesus-may-face-genocide-charges-2fbfz7sff
      The Link is paywalled, However check for yourself if inclined to do so.
      
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      November 16, 2023 10:53am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Cheers for the link. An interesting read.
        
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        November 16, 2023 10:10pm
- Burtland
  
  thought Verrall announced one in May – maybe he wants his own
  
  The creation of three multi-institution research hubs will bring scientists closer together to increase collaboration, ensure better use of expensive equipment and facilities, positioning New Zealand to meet complex challenges and seize economic opportunities,” Ayesha Verrall said.
  
  3. Health and pandemic readiness: a health and wellbeing corridor, including a new pandemic centre to ensure New Zealand is prepared for future emergencies, will share expertise and resources between Victoria University of Wellington, University of Otago, the Institute of Environmental Science and Research (ESR), the Malaghan Institute and Callaghan Innovation.
  
  https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/investing-science-boost-our-economic-advantage
  https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/government-opens-new-research-and-innovation-hub
  
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  November 16, 2023 9:45am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Great idea. As long as the WHO has absolutely ZERO input into any decision making and pharmaceutical companies aren’t allowed within a million miles of the whole entity.
    
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    November 16, 2023 10:10am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Dont forget the “Single source of Truth” types, They can not be allowed to control the narrative again.
      
      Wishful thinking there Clan. //
      
      7 1
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      November 16, 2023 10:55am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Vinicius – one quick question, what actually is a ‘Covid conspiracy theorist’ in your mind?
  
  I’d genuinely like to know. To quote Iain Davis:
  
  There are certain assumptions that are applied to anyone labelled a “conspiracy theorist”—and all of them are fallacies. Indeed, the term “conspiracy theory” is nothing more than a propaganda construct designed to silence debate and censor opinion on a range of subjects.
  
  Most particularly, it is used as a pejorative to marginalise and discredit whoever challenge the pronouncements and edicts of the State and of the Establishment—that is, the public and private entities that control the State and that profit from the State.
  
  Worth reading his two part article on the topic.
  
  https://off-guardian.org/2023/10/10/some-call-it-conspiracy-theory-part-1/
  
  We shouldn’t have to qualify our statements by saying ‘I’m not X, but…..’ – our words stand or fall by their content. Or should do.
  
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  November 16, 2023 9:51am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I dismissed the idea when I read “Michael Baker”.
  
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  November 16, 2023 10:00am
- imalwaysright
  
  Baker wants to run a Centre for Disease Control.
  
  Maybe its an in-joke and he means the public are the disease.
  
  A big round of applause for his previous efforts. Odd little man.
  
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  November 16, 2023 10:17am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Odd little man. Oddious Little Man. // Fixed .
    
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    November 16, 2023 10:57am
  - I remember when
    
    Michael Baker, wants to be considered a scientist, however, he fails to recognise that a scientist’s duty is to produce the facts, not justify actions.
    
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    November 16, 2023 2:47pm
- cmm
  
  Baker’s big push is for flu vaccinations.
  
  According to Baker we have around 10,000 flu deaths a year in NZ. That is probably correct if you count flu deaths the way we have counted Covid deaths. If you use the current way of counting it is around 500.
  
  If we used the same way of counting then there would be approx 15000 prostate cancer deaths in NZ each year (over 20x the 700 listed currently).
  
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  November 16, 2023 10:20am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Cmm
    Correct .
    If we use Bakers logic we would declare baldness a cause of death.
    It amazes me that he has a degree.
    
    Just looked at his Wikipedia entry. Apparently he worked for the minister of health on the response to the hiv/aids virus response which was a fear campaign designed to make money for Bakers idol, Anthony Faucci and .
    
    Dr Bryan Betty, who oversaw the ‘foreshortening’ of the careers of many nurses and doctors who questioned the pandemic of trial drug administration , is another with a history worth studying.
    
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    November 16, 2023 10:54am
  - Ghost
    
    He should be demanding every one should be using ondoms. If people stop having children eventually we could get the death toll down to 0….
    
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    November 16, 2023 11:02am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Baker worships Fauci.
  
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  November 16, 2023 10:27am
- cmm
  
  Of course they want a CDC.
  
  The CDC is a massively corrupt organization and the people overseeing the health system (and play the game well) set themselves up with lucrative board positions on pharma companies.
  
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  November 16, 2023 2:33pm
Ipanema69

Yesterday Auckland City Council currently had a mobile sign out on a major road in the eastern suburbs reminding people to put out their food scrap bins by 7.00am.

Given that today less than 10% of the houses that I passed on the walk to the bus stop had a food scrap bin out I dont think the message is getting through.

Your rates dollars at work!
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November 16, 2023 8:11am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I don’t get it. I have one of those bins on my counter top. I bought it from Mitre 10. When it is full I empty it into my green waste bin, which is collected. How can a bin that small hold all the food scraps for an entire week?
  
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  November 16, 2023 10:13am
  - Ghost
    
    I think that’s the problem with Auckland, they should have had a green waste bin. The little thing they have got looks useless
    
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    November 16, 2023 10:16am
  - wsk12345
    
    Seriously? Mine would last a week. But I compost it or feed it to the worms rather than making my clean green bin (for garden waste only)all stinky.
    
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    November 16, 2023 10:40am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Let’s say you bone a chicken and cut up a pumpkin. There is the bin full. In 20 minutes 🙂
      
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      November 16, 2023 11:34am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Such a great idea that the Council has to beg for food scraps.
  I have seen 3 on the Shore.
  
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  November 16, 2023 10:30am
- lifesgood
  
  Yes, just had a drive around an eastern suburb. About one in 10 houses had that stupid little green bin out. I never use mine. I compost all vegetable scraps and toss the occasional meat bone in my red bin. Bloody annoyed that the council wasted money on this green bin nonsense, and yes, the electronic sign is up in my street too.
  
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  November 16, 2023 12:26pm
- I remember when
  
  Mobile advertising sign vehicle driver seems to be the latest Council/Road works employment source.
  
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  November 16, 2023 2:54pm
artemisia

According to columnist Bruce Cotterill the new grocery commissioner has 23 staff. That rests some case or other.
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November 16, 2023 8:19am
- imalwaysright
  
  Artemisia
  
  Everything he does, he does to save you money !
  
  Stickman.
  
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  November 16, 2023 10:28am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Caving in to Winston.
Jump! When and where to?

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/caving-to-winston-s-whims-coalition-talks-becoming-a-circus/ar-AA1jWi8T?
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November 16, 2023 8:21am
- Vinicius
  
  The political media during the coaltion talks because they’ve been shutout by Luxon, Seymour and Peters have resorted to interviewing their laptops. An AI programme could do better.
  
  I wouldn’t set great store on what Jenna Lynch writes. Ditto HDPA on NewstalkZB who talks a lot of rubbish.
  
  A lot of conjecture and guesses and not much more.
  
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  November 16, 2023 8:32am
  - kowtow
    
    She talks of humiliation.
    
    yer but how humiliating is the whole of te media pahti taking Ardern’s 30 pieces of silver .
    
    They never discuss that .
    
    They disgust me as they’re helping to destroy our democracy by having failed to hold power to account and have zero self awareness.
    
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    November 16, 2023 9:27am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “HDPA on NewstalkZB who talks a lot of rubbish.”
    
    She is usually sensible. However, yesterday she was advocating a law to force people to cooperate with police interrogation or be sent to prison. This was in response to the three suspects in the recent baby murder remaining uncooperative.
    
    We inherited the ‘right to silence’ from the UK and it goes back to the 16th century.
    
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    November 16, 2023 10:18am
    - imalwaysright
      
      And Maori children inherited the right to not be the victim of infanticide.
      Suspected baby killers need their own legislation. It should suspend all of their rights until the murderer/s are convicted .
      
      We have baby killers walking our streets because they used the law to their advantage .
      
      In a normal society they would be executed by a court appointed executioner .
      
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      November 16, 2023 11:08am
      - Ghost
        
        Well, down here it was a white south African that killed her children, not Maori. Mark Lundy brutally murdered his daughter. Here is a photo of some of our murdered children from an old 2015 article.
        
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        November 16, 2023 11:18am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Ghost
        To clarify, all convicted baby killers should be executed by a court appointed executioner.
        I realise that it is not just maoris doing this heinous crime against a defenceless child, I was alluding to the inheritance of common law and the historical instances of maori infant harm and murder. The law being a deterrent to the practice, and protection for the vulnerable .
        Saying that, as you have noted, it is definitely not an evil reserved solely for maori.
        
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        November 16, 2023 11:54am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        What about an adult suspected of murdering an adult? Do you legislate away their right to remain silent when interrogated and while being tried in a court?
        
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        November 16, 2023 11:58am
      - imalwaysright
        
        B.Y
        No.
        Just for kids.
        
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        November 16, 2023 12:17pm
      - Ghost
        
        Btw on that photo there is 47 children who have been murdered. Of those I count 22 white children
        
        But hey let’s just keep pushing the Māori side of it
        
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        November 16, 2023 1:52pm
      - cmm
        
        Ghost. I think the point is that the ones playing the Kahui game are all Maori (or mostly Maori).
        
        How can you tell they are not Maori? There are plenty blond, blue-eyed Maori.
        
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        November 16, 2023 2:42pm
      - cmm
        
        BY: Child or adult is not the point.
        
        They all know who did it, but they are all clamming up.
        
        Sure, the actual murderer has a right to silence but the rest do not.
        
        They are all either chargeable for murder or being accessories after the fact.
        
        Crimes Act:
        71 Accessory after the fact
        (1) An accessory after the fact to an offence is one who, knowing any person to have been a party to the offence, receives, comforts, or assists that person or tampers with or actively suppresses any evidence against him or her, in order to enable him or her to escape after arrest or to avoid arrest or conviction.
        
        176 Accessory after the fact to murder
        Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years who is an accessory after the fact to murder.
        
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        November 16, 2023 2:51pm
      - Ghost
        
        You’ve obviously forgotten the game that mark lundy played. If you think only Māori play that game then you have’t been paying attention over the years
        
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        November 16, 2023 7:06pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      She has been absolutely rubbishing Luxon for caving to Peters, that’s strange because he hasn’t caved on anything, and I hear he has told Peters no more than once
      
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      November 16, 2023 11:25am
    - cmm
      
      The right to silence is fine, but when a bunch of people know who the actual murderer was then they are protecting eachother then that is a conspiracy to conceal a crime.
      
      But no, they’re special. Can’t do that.
      
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      November 16, 2023 2:40pm
  - Paulus
    
    Lynch has a serious relation ship, and a child, with one of the coalition leaders party so she get the inside knowledge first I expect.
    
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    November 16, 2023 10:50am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    HDA has been talking absolute crap tgd last couple of weeks, she even tried to say Nats never met with Peters in the three weeks before the specials, that is blatant lies
    
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    November 16, 2023 11:24am
- Cassandra
  
  Media beat up. Ignore it.
  
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  November 16, 2023 8:42am
- Local Miller
  
  Jenna Lynch interviewing her keyboard again.
  
  Given she’s claiming “Ironically, more has leaked about these negotiations than ever did in 2017”, where’s all the detail that’s been leaked? I’ve not seen anything of substance coming from the MSM that could have come out of the negotiations.
  
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  November 16, 2023 8:47am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Jenna is the smartest one in the room.
    Unfortunately for her said room is a dunny.
    
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    November 16, 2023 11:16am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    Jenna Lynch has really filled the shoes left empty by Tova O’Brien. She is just as nasty.
    
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    November 16, 2023 11:26am
- I remember when
  
  The interesting thing about the coalition talks this time is that Winston looks old and like the odd man out.
  
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  November 16, 2023 9:02am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Come on Steve, you’re better than that! WPDS is starting to rival TDS for some people, particularly on this blog site!
  
  That link is Jenna Lynch on Newshub. Just more of the same bs of the last couple of weeks as the msm in NZ try and destroy this coalition before it is off the ground. The same, petulant little Labour fanboys/girls all upset because their paymasters got their arses whipped.
  
  The report I read yesterday said that Seymour was very happy with the negotiations up to now.
  
  Even One News reported on it in a calm, logical manner. The words from Seymour were particularly encouraging considering it is apparently him and Peter’s dislike of each other that is the main problem.
  
  ACT leader David Seymour says his meeting today with Christopher Luxon and Winston Peters was “very positive”.
  
  Speaking to 1News today, Seymour said the meeting had also been “optimistic and hopeful”.
  
  “It’s been a long and winding road for sure, but this is another step towards a strong, stable, united government that can deliver the changes that I think this country needs, and I know people voted for.”
  
  “I know people will try [to] manufacture drama but I’m not sure there’s that much to be manufactured.
  
  There is no drama other than a fabricated one designed to trigger people for clicks and likes.
  
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  November 16, 2023 9:05am
  - kiwikidsnz
    
    I accidentally watched around a third of both TV1 & TV3 news last night.
    
    Acknowledging that Simon Dallow wasn’t there however I had an impression that both channels seemed to have dialled back the Te Reo. I even heard “New Zealand” mentioned instead of “Aotearoa”.
    
    Did I imagine it ?
    
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    November 16, 2023 9:23am
    - graham
      
      I watch TV1 News – SWMBO insists – and yes, they did seem to go quite light on the amount of te reo, which made the overall experience so much more enjoyable as I could actually understand it …
      
      On the odd occasion when Daniel Faitaua has presented the news it is a real pleasure as he presents in a thoroughly professional manner (unlike, say, John Campbell) and in English. It actually makes watching the news a worthwhile experience.
      
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      November 16, 2023 11:00am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Wendy Petrie (dish) is absolutely gorgeous and doesn’t have the hangups of Tallow and the other one with the screeching whiney voice.
      
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      November 16, 2023 11:20am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Dallow went way over board when we we’re waiting for specials
      
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      November 16, 2023 11:27am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      That’s a helluva accident, kknz. Really bad luck.
      
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      November 16, 2023 2:30pm
      - kiwikidsnz
        
        Worse luck tonight. Simon’s back.
        
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        November 16, 2023 6:29pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I do admit to having a bit of WPDS. He pisses me off with his cryptic methods.
    Poor Jenna Lynch having to write rubbish because she has nothing concrete. I knew it would become this. I said weeks ago for the 3 leaders to do it Trump style. “You are Fake News!” then ignore them. It seems they are, and the media hate it. Tough titties.
    
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    November 16, 2023 10:44am
- Burtland
  
  a “Story by Jenna Lynch”
  
  Theres about 150,000 who vote Winston each of the 9 times hes got in – thats an awful lot of people who want to put a “spanner in the works”
  
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  November 16, 2023 9:12am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Hahaha, god they are pathetic, apparently Luxon has been saying no to Peters on several fronts.
  
  There was never a meeting scheduled in Wellington.
  
  Today the media attack line is Seymour rubbished Luxon because of the shaving cut on his face, that’s bullshit, I heard him speak to HDA yesterday, he said the negotiations are getting closer to finishing, as close as his shaving cut this morning, this media are utter nut jobs
  
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  November 16, 2023 9:52am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Utter nut jobs? You are far too kind.
    
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    November 16, 2023 10:46am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Remember there is people monitoring our posts, do you want to know what I really think 👍🏻😃
      
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      November 16, 2023 11:34am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        With that comment I can take an educated guess!
        
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        November 16, 2023 12:22pm
  - Paulus
    
    The media are gathering Airpoints flying back and forth to Auckland from Wellington.
    
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    November 16, 2023 10:52am
    - lifesgood
      
      Tee hee…using up all their PIJF…good job. Soon they’ll be out of a job when the money dries up.
      
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      November 16, 2023 12:43pm
      - Ghost
        
        Nope. The fund expires in 2026, so you have a lot more of their articles to read
        
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        November 16, 2023 12:53pm
- JJ56
  
  Politik this morning has a more credible explanation for what is going on. NZF are mired in the detail of what they want, and only produced their list on Tuesday. Hence why the various spokespersons are now processing things.
  
  Handling that is taking time compared with Act and the Nats who have a more limited number of major issues.
  
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  November 16, 2023 10:39am
  - Paulus
    
    It appears that NZFirst are being controlled by Shane Jones in the negotiations as Winston cannot be bothered.
    
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    November 16, 2023 1:38pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      Sounds about right, Winston has always had a reputation for laziness. But god save NZ if Shane is supposed to be the responsible brains of the NZF clownshow. He and Winston are both all mouth and no trousers.
      
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      November 16, 2023 3:39pm
    - Ghost
      
      The leaders turn up when they are needed. Luxon and Peter’s meeting again now. Interesting Peter’s has said he was meeting on Tuesday with a foreign minister. Makes me wonder if he has been offered his old portfolio back.
      
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      November 16, 2023 3:46pm
Bridgenag

These articles are a reflection of our path with spending. Money allocated for the pandemic being frittered around elsewhere…..

Should we start a collection for the UKHSA?
Let’s pass the plate around

https://open.substack.com/pub/trusttheevidence/p/should-we-start-a-collection-for?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

Ampeldämmerung: Scholz government in crisis after doubtful budgetary manoeuvre to fund Green climate fantasies with unused Covid funds is declared unconstitutional

https://open.substack.com/pub/eugyppius/p/ampeldammerung-scholz-government?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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November 16, 2023 8:41am
Warren

Jacinda Ardern brought womans power to her dailly press conference’s and the three that benefitted the most Jessica Mutch McKay, Jenna Lynch and Tova O’Brien won’t have a bar of being shut down from penning the facts as they see it from the Coalition talks to form a Government by National, Act and NZ First.
All are the Senior political Jornalists for their respective outlets and all think they
Can dupe New Zealander’s with their lies and innuendo to achieve there own agenda of what’s happening in New Zealand politics.
I personally myself think Jacinda Ardern has a lot to answer for in New Zealand Politics as she used her dailly press conference to release a barrage of lies to force a division between the haves and the have-nots so her Government could control the agenda, exactly what these female Journalists are now turning to with their own views whether true or false to discredit those in the Coalition that they personally dispise.
Christopher Luxon is Jenna Lynch target and you only have to read her column on Newshub to see, so let’s hope David Seymours cheif of Staff who is Jenna Lynch partner is not using her to leak information .
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November 16, 2023 8:57am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Some of the stuff Lynch has been saying is utterly disgraceful
  
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  November 16, 2023 9:54am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Jenna Lynch is not very right wing friendly so must be an interesting relationship with Andrew Ketels.
  
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  November 16, 2023 11:37am
- I remember when
  
  “Jessica Mutch McKay, Jenna Lynch and Tova O’Brien won’t have a bar of being shut down from” – penning their opinions loosely based on relevant facts.
  
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  November 16, 2023 12:06pm
MCōs

India easily beat NZ last night in the CWC
Almost exactly a year ago NZ easily beat India at Eden Park
This time Tom Latham scored a two ball duck, last time he was not out on 145
Both times the crowd was mainly Indians
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November 16, 2023 9:01am
- MCōs
  
  Now the question is
  Do I keep my Sky subscription?
  
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  November 16, 2023 9:06am
  - Inandout
    
    Mc, re apply and get 50% off for 3 months, if you are so inclined.
    
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    November 16, 2023 9:27am
Kiwiguy

Another piece of news I’ve heard about the murdered baby Ruthless case in Lower Hutt.
There were also a number of dogs on the same property also being beaten. ONLY 1 SURVIVED and that remaining dog is being handed to a rescue centre in another part of the country as it needs to “disappear” out of the area.
The feral, mongrel scum who treat humans and animals like this should be locked up and the key thrown away. Makes my blood boil.
But I guess Harry Tam rubs his hands with glee about these cases as he sees more Cultural Report business coming his way.
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November 16, 2023 9:07am
Loddenthinks

Well this is excellent news – MFAT has read the room and started removing “te reo” from briefing documents.

Predictably, Tova is having a meltdown and with zero irony or awareness of her own rank hypocrisy, is bleating “but they haven’t even formed a government yet”.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301009592/ministry-leak-staff-backlash-after-te-reo-mori-scrubbed-from-official-use-ahead-of-new-government

Also Tova, just yesterday: “Stuff readers concerned about new Govt’s ability to handle key issues, survey finds.”

So the government hasn’t even been formed yet (which is bad when Ministries react in advance, apparently), but she can’t wait to tell us how concerned readers are to handle key issues, which they haven’t even addressed. The woman is clearly stupid, and betrays her lefty bias at every turn.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/133257867/stuff-readers-concerned-about-new-govts-ability-to-handle-key-issues-survey-finds?cid=app-iPhone&fbclid=IwAR3vQQkDVSSYjLoi1ZM0XgcfqDR4X-HNN6eZCDwWY1aDqiNmIuOsjRazMgw
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November 16, 2023 9:16am
- Inandout
  
  Lod, are there many Stuff readers remaining?
  
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  November 16, 2023 9:28am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  I wonder how concerned readers were when nothing was handled in 6 years
  
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  November 16, 2023 9:56am
- nathie
  
  But, but, but Labour is still the acting government – this is happening under Labour’s watch!
  
  I even read the article (!!) and it says:
  
  It’s not yet clear what the new government’s position will be on the use of Te Reo Māori by government departments because it’s not yet been formed.
  
  So why is National being blamed by Stuff?
  
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  November 16, 2023 10:00am
  - Swifty
    
    Again here you are with this divisive talk nathie!
    
    It’s perfectly fine for the NZ Left to politicise our civil institutions; force them to treat people differently by race, abolish merit and prioritise diversity hiring, ‘decolonise’ our civil service by implementing Maori wonderfulness and throwing billions of dollars at developing separate Maori organisations – what’s divisive is the Right attempting to do away with those same things!
    
    //
    
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    November 16, 2023 10:17am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    I assume your last question is rhetorical?
    
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    November 16, 2023 10:54am
- Benedict Yu
  
  What they were referring to is the ‘template’ in MS Word which generates the skeleton of reports, memos etc.
  
  Currently the ‘headings’ and ‘subheadings’ are in Maori first and then English. It becomes a visual mess. For example, all reports to the Minister have contact details – names and phone numbers of an official the Minister can phone. Currently this is presented as:
  
  “Taipitopito whakapa Contact details”
  
  Example here:
  
  https://www.mfat.govt.nz/assets/OIA/OIA-2023/OIA-28783-PMs-diplomatic-visit-to-Vietnam-in-2022-17-October-2023.pdf
  
  It is not the end of the world, but visually distracting. A much worse example is the Public Service Commission list of all government agencies. Let’s say you were searching for one alphabetically. Can you see the problem?
  
  https://www.publicservice.govt.nz/system/central-government-organisations/#public-service-departments
  
  A great example of a site that should have a “Choose your language” button on the first page. Like Canada.
  
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  November 16, 2023 10:52am
  - kowtow
    
    We don’t need to be “like Canada”.
    
    Everyone here speaks English .
    
    Doing all that woke ,virtue signalling would cost a fortune , we’re broke and can’t afford the waste.
    
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    November 16, 2023 11:02am
  - Inandout
    
    BY, now you mention Canada.
    
    ‘Where in Canada do They Speak French Only:
    
    The Province of Québec only has one official language. Though French is the only official language, there are many places within the province where large populations of English speakers can be found, such as in the city of Montréal, and in certain neighborhoods of Québec City. Even though not everyone in Québec is a native speaker of Québécois French, this province still has, by far, the largest French-speaking population of Canada. Other provinces with large French speaking populations border Québec to the East (New Brunswick) and the West (Ontario). It’s from this region that most of the Franco-Americans in New England came to America’.
    
    I am sure there is no area of NZ where Maori only is spoken.
    
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    November 16, 2023 11:41am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Try http://www.govt.nz/organisations/
    
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    November 16, 2023 2:34pm
- I remember when
  
  “but they haven’t even formed a government yet.”
  
  If they manage to finalise their coalition agreement in the next couple of weeks it will be less than 5% of their term.
  That doesn’t seem unreasonable time to ensure the rules and party’s rights are clearly documented.
  
  Perhaps, that isn’t the media’s view of what will produce the best outcomes for them.
  
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  November 16, 2023 12:16pm
kowtow

I see the mayoress of Welly blithering about int’l law and Gaza relating to some paint vandalism .
Well part of same is don’t use hospitals and civilian infrastructure for military purposes ( let alone terrorism) .

“The IDF released on Wednesday evidence of Hamas weapons and military command centers inside the Al Shifa hospital complex during a raid on the medical center. “During searches in one of the departments of the hospital, the troops located a room with technological assets, along with military and combat equipment used by the Hamas terrorist organization,” the army said in a statement, adding that troops engaged and killed several Hamas terrorists inside the hospital complex. “In another department in the hospital, the soldiers located an operational command center and technological assets belonging to Hamas, indicating that the terrorist organization uses the hospital for terrorist purposes.” (Ynetnews)
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November 16, 2023 9:32am
- Benedict Yu
  
  The International Committee of the Red Cross is clear on this matter. Under International Humanitarian Law, hospitals have special protection. However that protection is lost if the hospital is used as an arms depot.
  
  https://www.icrc.org/en/document/protection-hospitals-during-armed-conflicts-what-law-says
  
  You would think that these folk going on about war crimes would spend the two minutes that it took me to find the website of the International Committee of the Red Cross and check the law, which is crystal clear.
  
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  November 16, 2023 11:00am
  - kowtow
    
    Last night’s raid by the brave , well trained and disciplined IDF must have been some sort of reconnisance to gather the proof they would be demanded of by the world’s lefty’s , well they must have found enough ………
    
    ………’.IDF forces have entered Al Shifa Hospital in Gaza City through the southern entrance, for the second time, with bulldozers, the Palestinians reported Wednesday night. The head of the burns department in the hospital stated that gunfire could be heard and that bulldozers were clearing vehicles from the entrance to allow military hardware to enter. (Einav Halabi)’ (Source YNET )
    
    Won’t be long till the terror tunnels that MSF and the rest said don’t exist will be exposed .
    
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    November 16, 2023 12:40pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    the troops located a room with technological assets, along with military and combat equipment
    
    And do you think the IDF propaganda machine would have said oh gosh we didnt find anything bad in the hospital.
    
    They HAD to find something to justify all the bombing.
    
    Am not saying Hamas did or didnt use the hospital as cover.
    
    Just to say I dont believe anything coming out of the IDF propaganda machine.
    
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    November 16, 2023 5:34pm
- Beach Haven expat
  
  The BBC has been forced to apologise after misquoting Reuters and saying the IDF were targeting and shooting Arabic speakers in the hospital. The truth was they took in Arabic speakers with medical equipment to help those in need.
  Disgraceful mistake. And as the editor of the Jewish Chronicle asked: why are these mistakes always one way against Israel?
  
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  November 16, 2023 6:27pm
Swifty

“Governor Hobson shifted the weight on his feet nervously as the Nga Puhi chief Hone Ropata approached the tent. He was uncomfortable in civil dress, and regretted the fact that because he was unaware the chiefs would agree so quickly to sign the Treaty he hadn’t had an opportunity to change into more formal military attire.

The chief bent slightly as he picked up the quill to sign and then looked sternly at Hobson and cautioned him “You do realise that in us signing this it means that in 183 years when New Zealand universities need to respond to Covid effects and lower student enrolments by trimming staff headcounts that doing so will be a breach of this treaty?”

Hobson met the chief’s gaze and, admiring his foresight, replied simply “I do.”

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/301009080/massey-university-staff-tell-academic-board-proposed-cuts-will-have-significant-implications

And then I woke up, it had all been a dream.
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November 16, 2023 9:58am
- sungsamning
  
  Couldn’t happen to a nicer place. Pity the whole joint isn’t being closed.
  
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  November 16, 2023 7:35pm
Master Mariner

Just putting it out there for information, Major finds of hydrocarbons of Israeli coast.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/israel-awards-gas-exploration-licences-eni-bp-four-others-2023-10-29/
and,
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-H05z4n8qb5o/U9Ca5Vzk_4I/AAAAAAAACz8/PfVSy2duCL4/s1600/Gaza_Marine.bmp1.png

And Ukraine had major finds and where in the process of directly importing into EU,
Then the war happened with Russia.

Like I say, Just putting it out there.
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November 16, 2023 10:01am
- Taieri
  
  And Ukraine had major finds and where in the process of directly importing into EU
  ———–
  
  Big offshore gas fields just of the Crimea.
  
  https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/natural-resources-ukraine-war-1.6467039
  
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  November 16, 2023 10:14am
  - Master Mariner
    
    https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/ukraines-naftogaz-hopes-supply-europe-with-gas-next-heating-season-ceo-2022-09-02/
    
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    November 16, 2023 11:04am
- Ghost
  
  Let’s hope they can find something off NZ, then aussie can invade us and take over……
  
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  November 16, 2023 10:19am
  - MCōs
    
    How depressing that someone should loathe our country so much they would want it invaded by foreigners
    Even if the suggestion were made in jest
    
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    November 16, 2023 10:33am
    - Ghost
      
      Can’t take a joke huh, sad
      
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      November 16, 2023 10:36am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        He’s a leftie. Born without a sense of humour.
        
        11 2
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        November 16, 2023 11:10am
    - Terry Dalee
      
      https://youtu.be/7xUYbI64QHI?si=XmQae9jYk7HeTe_L
      
      I’m all for it…. 100% too easy…
      
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      November 16, 2023 5:25pm
  - kevn
    
    Ghost… I thought ‘they’ had banned in order to save it for China.
    
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    November 16, 2023 10:43am
    - Ghost
      
      Oh, we have options. Maybe let the Chinese take the north island, Aussie the South
      
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      November 16, 2023 10:54am
      - Taieri
        
        Aussie the South
        ———
        
        With the capital in Waimate?
        
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        November 16, 2023 2:46pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Might save all the productive types currently moving there – and they might start extracting some of the other minerals just sitting here .
    
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    November 16, 2023 11:02am
- Inandout
  
  MM, shall they change the chant ‘from the river to the sea’ to ‘from the oil wells to the tankers’?
  
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  November 16, 2023 11:47am
Maggie Pie

Katie Hopkins predicts Suella Braverman will be UK’s next Prime Minister.

It’s sooo worth reading Suella’s mordacious letter to that little rat Rishi Sunak,
tendering her resignation….

https://mol.im/a/12751419

😀 😀 😀
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November 16, 2023 10:05am
- NZer In Exile
  
  And on the other side of the Atlantic Vivek Ramaswamy is certainly not holding back in the debates. My worry with him is he is too young. Not that he’s likely to win anyway.
  
  https://odysee.com/@PaulJosephWatson:5/nikki-haley-is-an-idiot:5
  
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  November 16, 2023 12:21pm
- Steve Todd
  
  This extract from her resignation letter is interesting: “[…]. Despite you having been rejected by a majority of Party members … and thus having no mandate to be Prime Minister, […].”
  
  She is referring to the Conservative Party leadership contest in July–September 2022 (that she unsuccessfully participated in), which Liz Truss won.
  
  This election was conducted among Conservative MPs by the absolute majority: successive ballots method. When the final two candidates were put to the vote of party members, Truss won by 81,326 votes, to 60,399 votes for Rishi Sunak.
  
  But then Truss resigned as prime minister, requiring a further leadership contest to be held. Sunak was elected leader of the party (and therefore prime minister) on 24 October 2022, unopposed! (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2022_Conservative_Party_leadership_election.)
  
  Therefore, to say “and thus [you have] no personal mandate to be Prime Minister” is both wrong and quite unfair; it is the sort of comment that a “woman scorned” would make.
  
  It is very likely that Suella Braverman will not be Britain’s next prime minister. That will almost certainly be Sir Keir Starmer. Indeed, I wouldn’t pick her as the next leader of the party. Surely, helped by her star turn at the coronation in May, that will be Penny Mordaunt.
  
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  November 16, 2023 2:36pm
Paulus

I a surprised to see that Westpac have decided to stop lending to farmers, money from investors, in that the are making some conditions subject to being a Green Bank.
As a Shareholder and a Deposit Lender, with no debts, whatsoever I must consider whether such a move falls within my remit of what my personal investments are doing.
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November 16, 2023 10:24am
- kowtow
  
  It’s all the major banks , coming from Oz , which is ironic given how the economy there runs on dig , sell ,burn .
  
  ‘Westpac, like other New Zealand lenders, is a member of the Net Zero Banking Alliance, via its Australian parent company.
  
  Joining the alliance means agreeing to get the emissions of the whole businesses – including the impact of the companies banks lend to – to a level compatible with keeping global heating to 1.5C.
  
  BNZ has already set a target of cutting by 11 percent the climate impact-per-kilo of food produced by its farmer customers, by 2030.
  
  ASB and ANZ’s parent banks have also signed up to the alliance, and will need to produce targets in the next couple of years.’
  
  https://www.odt.co.nz/rural-life/dairy/westpac-sets-emission-targets-farms-it-lends
  
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  November 16, 2023 10:32am
  - Master Mariner
    
    ESG is over, The message has not reached NZ Inc yet. //
    
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    November 16, 2023 11:07am
  - Paulus
    
    Where else can one go for non Green investments ?
    With security likes these Banks ?
    
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    November 16, 2023 1:57pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  ASB sent me an email about this nonsense because I had some money in a managed fund with them.
  I immediately cancelled the investment and told them I had no confidence they were going to invest my money wisely.
  Trouble is, it seems like they’ve all been infected with the stinking ESG virus. Investors need to fight back.
  
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  November 16, 2023 10:58am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Interestingly enough, ASB in Aus were implementing Carbon Scores too customers.
    
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    November 16, 2023 11:08am
Chuck Bird

This very interesting about the silent majority.

New polling reveals ‘average Australian’ attitude toward Israel-Palestine conflict

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Lim1EOeNAE
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November 16, 2023 10:28am
- Matt Long
  
  Very good, thanks Chuck.
  
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  November 16, 2023 10:52am
Maggie Pie

OMG…..I see where organisers of the ‘ASB Classic’ have just announced they’ve secured Gael Monfils to headline the men’s singles in January.
He is sooo past it! Most boring player on the circuit.

TBH, ever since Budgie resigned as tournament director the whole thing has been a disaster.
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November 16, 2023 10:43am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  That’s a bit harsh, Maggie. He seems a very nice young man and is bringing his lovely wife (who can also hold a racquet) and beautiful little baby.
  
  I hope he does very well here.
  
  http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/tennis/133306319/playing-asb-classic-means-christmas-has-to-come-early-for-gael-monfils-elina-svitolina
  
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  November 16, 2023 7:17pm
Swifty

Do the board members of a local retirement home all need to be elderly themselves?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12753263/Is-word-looking-woman-Womans-Hour-presenter-Emma-Barnett-clashes-transgender-CEO-endometriosis-charity-not-using-word-woman-new-role-29-men-suffer-disease.html

Must they all have greying hair, a slight stoop a slight incontinence problem and a fondness for tea four times daily?

I’ve never thought so.
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November 16, 2023 10:50am
Bobba Fret

So once Siouxsie Wiles has sued her employer (successfully or otherwise) the Auckland University, does she still expect to work there? Or has she already effectively left her employment? If I sued the company I work for, I would assume the working relationship had broken down and I was gone burger. Surely her employment must be terminated, or is she then going to go for wrongful dismissal?
Does anybody know what S. Hendy ended up getting?
And John Campbell as an “Expert” witness. LOL!
This amused me from the article:
“Neither counsel decided to cross-examine Campbell, to which he expressed disappointment.”
Poor John, all the lawyers thought he was insignificant…that must have hurt.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/133280975/john-campbell-tells-court-siouxsie-wiles-was-invaluable-to-nz-during-covid19-pandemic
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November 16, 2023 11:15am
- rouppe
  
  Her concerns about her losing her job because of her views should be countered with the people that DID lose their job because of their views clashing with her views
  
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  November 16, 2023 12:58pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

The link is wrong. Scroll down to the item above “Highly Respected Historian Bruce Moon Gives Dame Anne Salmond’s ‘History’ Writing The Thumbs Down.”

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/bruce-moon-systematically-takes-activist-dame-anne-salmonds-history-apart/?
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November 16, 2023 11:16am
Maggie Pie

And what about this for cultural-enrichment on the streets of Hamburg?

I see they refer to them as ‘Merkels Migrants’

https://twitter.com/RadioGenoa/status/1724677012357288228

God only knows what a woman would do if she was alone 🙁
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November 16, 2023 11:42am
- Ghost
  
  No that’s one of Ginny Andersen’s volunteers. Can’t you lip read?
  
  You vote labour, no? No I said you vote labour. You vote ***** Ginny or I ***** you ***** ****
  
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  November 16, 2023 11:48am
goNZ1

this post is about Abortion –

MMP is an abortion.
Voting for Mr 6% was and is an abortion.
The previous govt was an abortion.
Huge numbers of NZers continue to flee to Australia which is less of an abortion than NZ
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November 16, 2023 11:58am
I remember when

Travelled the Otaki-Transmission Gully highway yesterday and discovered that the area leading to the highway at the Otaki end may give a clue as to the proliferation of traffic cones.
It is obviously both a significant artwork and a maternity unit for said cones.
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November 16, 2023 12:00pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f_HOm3uQRQ
Chaos In Parliament As Ceasefire Vote Result Comes In.
The ‘ceasefire’ vote lost. There have been resignations from the shadow cabinet. Its a civil war between the Marxists, and the Woke-Marxists. the police have lost control. [5:39]
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November 16, 2023 12:23pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNTaPH4AAkA
Bye Ronna.
Donald Trump, and Vivek Ramaswamy want to get rid of the GOP Chairwoman. Way too many losses. Oh yeah, and her dad is Pierre Delecto [aka Mitt Romney]
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November 16, 2023 12:24pm
Swifty

This guy had the world at his feet. He could have done anything he wanted to.

Sports, leadership, the military, running great teams of men – anything.

Hell, if he was born 100 years ago he could have been one of our great Maori Battalion war heroes who returned from Italy or North Africa and spent the rest of his life a strong, moral, contributing member of his community.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/301009654/gang-member-puk-kireka-dealt-meth-in-prison-after-assault-on-good-samaritan

But no, he chose badly…….

Decisions have consequences.

What a total waste of human potential.
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November 16, 2023 1:27pm
- Ghost
  
  Reminds me of school camps when those who went to sleep would wake up with a dick drawn on their face. Someone hand him some soap and a cloth.
  
  On a positive well done for pleading guilty.
  
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  November 16, 2023 1:39pm
- cmm
  
  “What a total waste of human potential.” What potential?
  
  People who think crime does not pay think the criminals have the same values, strengths and weaknesses as they do.
  
  Crime clearly pays for this guy. He’ is able to stand over prison staff getting them to smuggle in drugs, phones etc.
  
  Prison is just a gangpad. He’s high up the chain so for him it is like being in a gang pad where the taxpayer provides everything.
  
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  November 16, 2023 3:21pm
- Prince
  
  Cultural Report will show troubled childhood.
  So yeah he’s a real threat to society, but he needs a reduced sentence to reflect his upbringing.
  Bad luck for someone.
  
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  November 16, 2023 5:02pm
Jethrod

With an agreement imminent, we then have to wait for Mutch whining, the Lynching of the participants, the Wade-ing into the details that have been done wrong (in their opinion) only to have Tova do a once over of what’s left over.
Oh the 4 maidens of the apocalypse!
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November 16, 2023 2:06pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Changes in the Coroner’s Act? What changes?
Sooner or later all of this skullduggery will surface.
“The coroner does not need to comment on circumstances surrounding the death.” What? I thought that is what Coroners do. The cause of death – and WHY!
And she ran.

https://centrist.co.nz/tragic-case-casts-doubt-on-vaccine-safety-monitoring-and-investigations-into-post-vaccine-deaths/?
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November 16, 2023 2:35pm
- mawm
  
  It’s a drum I have been beating for years now – “if you don’t look for vaccine spike you can’t find it”. No post vaccination death can be ruled as not due to the vaccine without doing the correct tests. It’s almost as if it is deliberate….
  
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  November 16, 2023 5:02pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Has the pink terror been silenced – or making up more stories?

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/siouxsie-wiles-case-university-of-auckland-opens-its-defence-says-it-did-not-try-to-silence-scientist/ar-AA1jWWia?
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November 16, 2023 3:10pm
Maggie Pie

Police have shot and killed a man in Coast Rd Wainuiomata after he had been seen
holding a weapon to a woman’s neck.

– PMC.

“Don’t even ask BooBoo”
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November 16, 2023 3:26pm
- Ghost
  
  Threatened someone with a screwdriver
  
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  November 16, 2023 3:29pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Do you think it might have been Ms Phillips?
    
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    November 16, 2023 4:11pm
- greybeard
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/133306235/southland-toddler-hit-multiple-times-by-mums-partner-before-death-coroner-says
  Check out the file photo used in this article.
  
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  November 17, 2023 6:53am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Covid new cases.
Lock it down, lock it down. Get the traffic light system going )Ardern, where are you?)
Road blocks, Police.
Ah! No worries, it is not Auckland!
17 cases a day! Fuck, we only had two. Jesus Ardern, you are such an embarrassment.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/health/other/covid-19-cases-increasing-in-whanganui-number-of-vaccinations-also-increasing/ar-AA1jZTUE?
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November 16, 2023 3:33pm
Ghost

Hamas has agreed in principle and Israel is now considering a proposal for the release of at least 50 women and children among about 240 foreign and Israeli hostages being held by Hamas in Gaza, according to an Arab diplomat familiar with the negotiations.

Article
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November 16, 2023 3:54pm
Maggie Pie

WTF!! Not deemed high risk 🙁

I’m with Ani on this one…

What on earth is it with people from The Hutt –
now that name suppression has been lifted, does anyone from there know this creep?

https://twitter.com/aniobrien/status/1724980848028754277
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November 16, 2023 4:07pm
- Ghost
  
  Google brings up bugger all, guess he applied to have things wiped
  
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  November 16, 2023 4:13pm
  - kevn
    
    Ghost… Try duck duck go, use that as your search. Then try again, lots of other stuff deemed ‘inconvenient facts’ not available on google.
    
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    November 16, 2023 4:57pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Duckduckgo adds privacy for you but I’m pretty sure the results are second hand via Google and a few other big tech search engines (IE woke-censored results).
      
      Try Brave search. It claims to not censor results and not use google.
      
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      November 16, 2023 7:52pm
    - Ghost
      
      I use different search’s depending what device I’m on.
      
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      November 16, 2023 8:01pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Reading the twitter link is further indication NZ is a dangerous place and is now run by lunatics.
  
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  November 16, 2023 7:53pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The first. National have their previous mistakes to fix.

https://www.hobsonspledge.nz/the_first_mistake_national_must_fix
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November 16, 2023 4:16pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Obvious elites like Bill Gates just don’t want to be fed.
I guess he wants World population down so he will starve the masses. Amazing what money can do to someone’s mental health.

https://patriotpulse.net/bill-gates-latest-move-has-farmers-fearing-for-their-futures/?
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November 16, 2023 4:23pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The speaker of the House has told Stevie to have a lie/lay down.
Best keep the queen bee happy, so the whole hive is happy. 🙂
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November 16, 2023 5:50pm
Ghost

From the archives of the labour bully files, another installment

Newshub can reveal fresh allegations of toxic workplace behaviour against Labour MP Ginny Andersen – this time, from two former staff members.

It comes after concerns were raised last week about Andersen’s treatment of young volunteers.

One former staffer is calling for an independent investigation into the former Police Minister.

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November 16, 2023 8:16pm
NZer In Exile

Had a guts-full of the idea that big tech is spying on you 24/7 (and doing F knows what with the extremely detailed and personal data it collects on you)?

I’ve been using a “degoogled” phone for the last few months and have found it to be very functional. It’s a late model Pixel with GrapheneOS installed on it.

If you are interested in this, spend a couple of hours researching what’s involved first.

If you are still wanting to install invasive creeper apps like FB messenger on it, forget it and stay in the normie matrix with a big tech phone with big tech operating system on it. 😝
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November 16, 2023 8:27pm
Manolo

The Treaty of Waitangi will be NZ’s gravedigger. Guaranteed.
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November 16, 2023 8:35pm
NZer In Exile

I listened to this today. A very reasonable take on climate alarmism hitting the wall in many western countries. There is hope!

Tom Nelson Podcast:
Benny Peiser: The climate movement is shrinking.
https://www.podbean.com/ew/dir-zddyz-1be08d14
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November 16, 2023 8:38pm

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