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November 15, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 15 November 2023

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General Debate

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mikenmildagain

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Happy Day of the Imprisoned Writer!
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November 15, 2023 8:01am
- Yvette
  
  Cognitive dissonance, already
  
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  November 15, 2023 8:09am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Typically happens in countries that are uncivilized and have no respect for human rights, e.g.:
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2008/apr/16/3
  
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  November 15, 2023 8:43am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Yes.
    https://www.pen-international.org/news/palestinian-writer-and-activist-ahed-tamimi-detained-amid-surge-in-arbitrary-arrests-by-israeli-forces
    
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    November 15, 2023 10:03am
    - All_on_Red
      
      True
      Yaniv Zohar, a photographer for the Israel Hayom newspaper who was the first to cover the abduction of Gilad Shalit in 2006 for the Associated Press’ Israel bureau, was killed along with his wife, two daughters and father-in-law in Hamas’ Nahal Oz massacre on 7 October.
      
      Roy Edan, A photographer from Ynet, killed in the Kfar Aza massacre on 7 October.
      
      Shai Regev, an editor for TMI, the gossip and entertainment news section of the Ma’ariv newspaper, was killed in the Re’im music festival massacre on 7 October.
      
      Ayelet Arnin, a news editor for KAN, was also killed in the Re’im music festival massacre on 7 October.
      
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      November 15, 2023 11:45am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      It’s OK milky. The terrorists you apologise for had plenty of lefty journalists accompany them when they committed their atrocities.
      
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      November 15, 2023 11:35pm
- Surely Knott
  
  A day to celebrate unvaccinated bloggers
  
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  November 15, 2023 9:03am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    For those who don’t know, November 15th is the glorious second anniversary marking our former great leader’s inspirational decision to force people to take part in a dangerous, often lethal medical experiment. Either that or lose your job.
    
    Some details here.
    
    https://redremembrance.co.nz/
    
    Covid hasn’t gone away. Vaccine-injury numbers are growing. People are still out of work and unable to pay for therapies. And many New Zealanders continue to grieve for lost relationships as the government’s inhumane Covid response divided us.
    
    For many it was the destruction of their lives, not just the loss of their job.
    
    Loss of friends.
    
    Loss of partners, wives, husbands, families.
    
    Loss of income. Loss of home. Loss of sanity.
    
    Loss of hope.
    
    Loss of health and for many, the ultimate, loss of life.
    
    But nobody in parliament or among the health experts or in the media want to even acknowledge there has been a problem.
    
    I’ve got my red shirt on for the occasion. If you see any of the public gatherings today at midday, maybe give them a smile or a wave or a toot on your horn.
    
    These are your fellow citizens. They were abused, vilified, segregated and punished in many other ways. All for standing up for their basic human rights.
    
    Never forget. Never let the politicians forget, and let’s endeavour to bring those culpable to justice.
    
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    November 15, 2023 10:06am
    - Surely Knott
      
      Thanks Clan. I’ll change my shirt to red
      
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      November 15, 2023 10:11am
    - KiwiBattler
      
      wow, 3 down ticks, where are peoples heads at? i’m going to try and get along to a gathering today.
      
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      November 15, 2023 10:53am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Yes KB,
        I would be interesting to hear their reasons for the downticks.
        All ticks should be linked to a username.
        
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        November 15, 2023 1:16pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Downticks are just the trolls in the corner planning their next downtick
        The downtick is a badge of ‘Honour
        
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        November 15, 2023 3:23pm
      - david in Aus
        
        I feel sorry for you guys: admirably misguided.
        
        There were some vaccine related outcomes but at very low rates. Especially compared to covid virus related effects.
        
        I am seeing all these posts with unsubstantiated claims from the same usual suspects. It has become a subculture of those untrained in interpreting medical evidence following kooks and cranks.
        
        It is very sad seeing some very competent intelligent people in their own circle-of-competence going down this rabbit hole. I admire those sticking with principle, but their cause is so misguided- frankly stupid.
        
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        November 15, 2023 6:37pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        imalwaysright: “All ticks should be linked to a username.”
        
        I’ve been suggesting this for a while. Will show who the repeat turds are!
        
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        November 15, 2023 7:38pm
      - david in Aus
        
        @nzer in exile. You care too much about up or down ticks. Creature of the social media age? Beware of group thinking, irrespective of the size of the group.
        
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        November 15, 2023 9:09pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        David in aus,
        Feel free to tell us why we are wrong. I would like to be wrong as the alternative is pretty depressing.
        You don’t need to give us sympathy or patronise us, we are all open to discussing the issues in a forum with contrary opinions. Arguments and counterarguments are the currency we trade so feel free to provide yours.
        
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        November 15, 2023 9:23pm
      - david in Aus
        
        @imalwaysright. I didn’t think this is the right forum. Because we don’t have the space for the back and forth. Nevertheless, I will start with the latest one, that masks don’t prevent covid. There is no randomised control trial in populations so one cannot definitely prove or disprove the thesis. There are so many confounding factors such as social distancing, behavioural change etc. However, we know as Covid is 19 is spread via aersol. N95 properly fitted is effective against nearly all respiratory borne viruses. So it is not unreasonable to expect that it will be also be effective against covid. Moreover, it be unethical to expose other patients and staff to a patient with active covid without masking.
        
        They mix two concepts, are masks effective against respiratory viruses including covid? yes; versus, are population mask mandates effective. They quote the initial Cochrane review, which they misinterprete. Cochrane has revised their article in light of the misinterpretation by the anti-vaxxer community,
        Masking for the population depends on adherence rates and general attitudes. Chin mask riders are mostly unlikely to benefit from masks for example. 50% adherence rates also negate effectiveness. I find anti-vaxxers conflate the two concepts on purpose.
        
        Despite this, I think population masking was a poor utilisation of resources. We should of had a risk based approach. This opinion is not evidence-based. Any opinion will inevitably be valued based.
        
        For individuals, seeing people in hospital with active covid, at least N95 masks are highly recommended, if not mandatory. There was nothing more infuriating then having anti-vaxxer relatives insisting to see their relatives with covid without masking.
        
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        November 15, 2023 10:26pm
      - david in Aus
        
        How about the association myocarditis and covid vaccines?
        
        Anti-vaxxers state at covid vaccines cause large rates of myocarditis. Myocarditis is an inflammation of the heart. It can be a serious condition in a small proportion of those affected but most recover.
        Although covid vaccines are associated with myocarditis, the rates are very low 5-15 cases per 100,000 people. This has to compared to myocarditis caused by covid virus which increase the risk by 16 fold, from 9 to 150 cases per 100,000 people.
        Eur J Heart Fail. 2022 Oct 6 : 10.1002/ejhf.2669.
        
        I noticed that some anti-vaxxer used the increased rates of myocarditis as evidence of the malignant nature of the vaccine. They seem to forget the rates of myocarditis increased significantly before vaccines were widely available (CDC data). It didn’t prove the vaccine caused it, it was more likely that it was covid itself, and increased observer bias. As there was more monitoring.
        
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        November 15, 2023 11:14pm
      - Ghost
        
        You do realise that people who do not support the Covid vaccine are not anti vaxxers and the vast majority are all current on all their vaccines, vaccinate their children, they just haven’t taken this vaccine, so too call them anti vaxxers is just an idiot approach to shut conversations down.
        
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        November 15, 2023 11:21pm
      - david in Aus
        
        I might leave it there. I find that when people are so invested and lost so much due to their views. It is nearly impossible to change their minds.
        
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        November 15, 2023 11:20pm
      - david in Aus
        
        @ghost.
        That is a fair point. I thought that at first. mRNA was new for some people. When i suggested that novavax, a more conventional vaccine was an alternative to those hesistant. The reaction I received informed me that for this group of people the motivation was more political. And rational arguments will never get through to them. The term ‘Anti-vaxxer’ ecompasses the irrationality pretty well, even though they have a different genesis.
        
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        November 16, 2023 1:13am
      - imalwaysright
        
        DiA
        
        Thanks for your replies .
        Very enlightening . All the best for your future .
        
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        November 16, 2023 6:56am
      - Fisiani2
        
        https://youtu.be/6GSaBbYtQjE?si=nlPYJG9An0etS8aI
        
        Assisted golf at Wellington
        
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        November 16, 2023 6:02pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Clan,
      
      Never forget.
      
      You are right, but to forget suggests the reason to is over.
      
      There are still those people who can’t get their jobs back and there are also those who are yet to become ill or show symptoms.
      
      The crime is still in progress.
      
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      November 15, 2023 1:21pm
- Lenticular
  
  Nice of you to celebrate Paivi Rasanen’s unanimous not guilty finding today.
  
  For those unfamiliar with the case, the milkenmildagains of Finland tried to imprison a Christian former politician (and a bishop) for quoting the Bible.
  
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  November 15, 2023 2:43pm
Yvette

Areas they’re aligned on?

In the days following, Peters and Seymour have kept lines of communication open as they seek to leverage a better deal by joining forces on areas they’re aligned on – Newsroom
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/peters-and-seymour-team-up-as-luxon-hits-hurdles

Rt Hon Winston Peters
Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Deletion Bill
Member’s Bill –
http://www6.austlii.edu.au/nz/legis/hist_bill/pottowdb20052471445/
First Reading, Hansard –
https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/document/47HansD_20050608_00001017/principles-of-the-treaty-of-waitangi-deletion-bill-first

This bill, obviously, didn’t pass in 2005

But, now …

Explanatory note
This bill eliminates all references to the expressions “the principles of the Treaty”, “the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi”, and the “Treaty of Waitangi and its principles” from all the New Zealand statutes including all Preambles, interpretations, schedules, regulations and other provisos included in or arising from each such statute

See? – it starts well …
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November 15, 2023 8:01am
Yvette

And shouldn’t Act’s Principles be in the Introduction to the Bill of Rights. Part 1 General provisions –
1 The Government has the right to govern New Zealand.
2 The Government will protect all New Zealanders’ authority over their land and other property.
3 All New Zealanders are equal under the law with the same rights and duties

And that “Government shall be secular” should be chucked in there too somewhere
So, do we need to go to war – really

Several of my relatives have already been to war over this
And would have been surprised to find it is not already written clearly in New Zealand law
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November 15, 2023 8:02am
- Surely Knott
  
  2 The Government will protect all New Zealanders’ authority over their land and other property.
  
  Isnt your body your most intimate property and the property we each have the greatest claim on ? Why didn’t he stand up for those rights.
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:13am
- thirteenstars
  
  It’s a good point.
  
  With that addition to the Bill of Rights, that act begins to look like the beginnings of a constitutional document.
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:24am
- Colinxy
  
  “And that “Government shall be secular” should be chucked in there too somewhere”
  
  I’d really like that to be formally included. Then the next step is to define Marxism and all of its derivatives as religion and therefore not secular.
  
  I have been wondering how to remove the Neo-Marxist rot in our education system for example – “Critical Pedagogy”, and that would be a good starting point. Sure, like Christianity, Marxism could be taught, but now it would be taught its proper place in the education system – as a religion.
  
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  November 15, 2023 11:10am
  - Lenticular
    
    That’s naive, the wokes deny being Marxists.
    
    Better to recognise reality, that secular ideology needs to be constrained in a liberal society, and demand political neutrality in schools.
    
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    November 15, 2023 2:45pm
    - Colinxy
      
      That’s usually the other way around. Typically, classical/vulgar Marxists reject Neo-Marxism (which includes Intersectional Marxism or ‘woke’).
      
      Political neutrality at schools would also help, but we’ve seen this year’s curriculum deliberately imbed Neo-Marxism into the curriculum with statements like Critical Pedagogy (especially from Henry Giroux and Paulo Friere) and in science with “other ways of knowing” with NZ’s version called Maturangi Maori (also from Friere). Now that’s it is in there, on what grounds can it removed? I somehow doubt a return to political neutrality will have much sway. But, first stating to remove religious indoctrination from public schools would be a fairly easy argument as it has been done numerous times before. And then defining correctly that Marxism and its derivatives are religions.
      
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      November 15, 2023 3:23pm
Michael Sommerville

It looks increasingly like Winston is playing his usual games and, once again, does not have the wellbeing of the country at heart.
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November 15, 2023 8:03am
- Deane Jessep
  
  The wellbeing of the country needs to come behind the wellbeing of his voters and members. We still live in a democracy. I figure yesterday he was trying to get his board onboard with a deal and the media were making a big deal out of nothing.
  
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  November 15, 2023 9:49am
  - Michael Sommerville
    
    “The wellbeing of the country needs to come behind the wellbeing of his voters and members.”
    
    I disagree with that. I am reminded often, of JFK’s statement “Think not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country.” We should all have this as our focus although we might disagree on how to achieve it.
    
    If he was trying to get his board onboard, why did Luxon and Seymour understand he was going to be in Wellington yesterday.
    
    I shall wait for the final agreement to come out but for now I still think he is being a prat.
    
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    November 15, 2023 11:19am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Media suggested he snubbed ACT Nats, but he was on the phone with Luxon several times over the day, the media need a castrating
    
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    November 15, 2023 12:24pm
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      Our media castrated themselves long ago.
      
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      November 15, 2023 12:58pm
- JimBobJoe
  
  He is waiting for a bid from Labour/Greens/TMP.
  
  Who ever gives the biggest baubles to Winnie gets the gong …. in my opinion anyway.
  
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  November 15, 2023 1:04pm
- Paulus
  
  Never has done and never will have anybody’s interests – the only person at heart is Winston himself as a hypocrite.
  
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  November 15, 2023 1:38pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Here we go. Another day of annoying the shit out of everyone.
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November 15, 2023 8:03am
- Biscuit
  
  Careful, Steve.
  Karma will have it that you are seated right next to Mike at the traditional Kiwiblog Christmas Bunfest!
  
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  November 15, 2023 8:15am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    He won’t last 5 minutes next to me! The lights will be out.
    
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    November 15, 2023 8:29am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I don’t find you annoying, Steve, Just misinformed.
  
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  November 15, 2023 8:15am
- Grumpy Silver Haired Female
  
  So sad…
  
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  November 15, 2023 8:17am
- Paulus
  
  And the media have not gone to APEC – one of their expected duty free perks.
  
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  November 15, 2023 1:43pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I wonder if the local media know what APEC is?
    Is it beyond them? Six tears of conditioning – and hello.
    
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    November 15, 2023 5:56pm
Jmac

Starting to wonder what the chances of a 2nd election are?

If Winston doesn’t play ball, and Luxon and Seymour can present a united front, NZF’s 6.08% could drop below 5% easily.
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November 15, 2023 8:03am
- Philview
  
  I think NZ would put Labour back in power if asked to vote again. A lot of people will refuse to vote again.
  
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  November 15, 2023 11:08am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Not sure about that, the anger was huge, it’s Peters who would suffer, snd now he has been told he has no power after ruling Labour out then he knows what to do
    
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    November 15, 2023 12:26pm
  - Paulus
    
    Labour will need the Maori Party to get the numbers plus Winston might just make it.
    
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    November 15, 2023 1:44pm
  - rockape
    
    I disagree. I think there is a real mood for change. That is a kiwi thing that usually happens every three years . The voters did give Labour a hiding even if their vote stayed left with the Greens and Maori Party. Labour are in disarray and I think would suffer even more. The media are loving bullygate and the voters won’t be impressed. If I. Was Luxon I would draw a line in time and say if NZ First don’t join the club then it’s a new election. I think both ACT and NZ first will lose two to three percent.
    
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    November 15, 2023 5:55pm
- mawm
  
  Jmac – that’s only if Seymour and Luxon have learned from their mistakes which neither has shown any intention of doing so. A 2nd election looks like Labour’s to win sadly.
  
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  November 15, 2023 11:20am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Rubbish, the anger is still huge
    
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    November 15, 2023 12:27pm
    - mawm
      
      And that is exactly why your intemperate response is incorrect. Luxon and Seymour have denied the harm done and denied those in need which has created far more anger now.
      
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      November 15, 2023 10:01pm
G152

use hamas propoganda against him. something something new borns something something something
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November 15, 2023 8:05am
rouppe

John Oliver wins!

The Puteketeke is bird of the century!
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November 15, 2023 8:05am
- krazykiwi
  
  We can have the Bird of the Millennia next year where the Dodo must be a shoe-in, surely?
  
  Then the following year we can have the Bird of the Epoc where I’ll be voting for the Archaeopteryx.
  
  Buggered if I know what will happen the year after that.
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:25am
  - crikey
    
    KK: Probably by then the world will have been destroyed by man-made climate change. Cockroach species of the …
    
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    November 15, 2023 12:29pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    You must be feeling let down by John Oliver, kk, otherwise it would have been you
    
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    November 15, 2023 6:22pm
- thirteenstars
  
  Turns out it’s not native to NZ. In fact its distribution is global with a subspecies, P.c. Australis being listed as the Australasian crested grebe and Pūteketeke.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_crested_grebe
  
  How can NZ’s Bird of the Century not be exclusively native to this country? You might as well put seagulls and sparrows on the list.
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:29am
  - alphabeatrium
    
    It is native, but it’s not endemic. Native means not introduced by people. Endemic means found here and not anywhere else.
    
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    November 15, 2023 4:59pm
- Ehlana
  
  How can we have “bird of the century” when we are only 23 years into the century?
  
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  November 15, 2023 11:29am
  - imalwaysright
    
    We have to be quick before the windmills chop them all up.
    
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    November 15, 2023 1:29pm
- cmm
  
  I haven’t seen this Putewotsitsname, but I have seen many of the similar looking great crested grebe. You can seee a few of those up in the Canterbury trout lakes. Nice to watch when the trout are off the bite.
  
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  November 15, 2023 5:27pm
krazykiwi

If you call the police after being assaulted or burgled in Wellington today and they don’t show up, I can suggest a reason: There is a squadron of police cars and a full platoon of cops around Oriental bay breathalyzing commuters on their way into the city.
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November 15, 2023 8:09am
- plc
  
  Given the potential risk to the wider public of an over the limit driver in at a crawl commuter traffic, it doesn’t appear the best use of resources.
  
  Perhaps those police could be redeployed to Poole Street or wherever the previous inhabitants are now hiding.
  
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  November 15, 2023 8:18am
- waituna
  
  Does the mayor go that way to work?
  
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  November 15, 2023 8:21am
- peterwn
  
  And this is paid for from the the ‘road safety’ budget allocated to the Police. The Commissioner has to demonstrate that this budget is actually used for road safety and not being used to general crime stopping (which is covered by a separate budget).
  
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  November 15, 2023 8:21am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Doesn’t really matter what the excuse is, it’s a moronic waste of resources.
    
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    November 15, 2023 10:15am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      In fact it’s moronic to criticise efforts to keep drunk drivers off the roads. You’d have to have had your head in a hole for the last 20 years or more to miss all the people getting caught first thing in the morning.
      
      Why, only 3 days ago, this: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/133280583/the-hangover-multiple-drink-drivers-nabbed-after-overindulging-the-night-before
      
      Not to mention the drunk mums doing the school run and plenty of drunk teachers.
      
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      November 15, 2023 11:41pm
- Nigel Kearney
  
  I’ve heard Oriental Bay is notorious for road deaths caused by drunken drivers at 8AM on a Wednesday. I hope you thanked them for keeping you safe.
  
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  November 15, 2023 8:22am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    People have been caught over the limit early in the morning if they drank a lot, went to sleep late and then hit the road after maybe only 6 hours sleep. Not sure they would find many on a Wednesday morning.
    
    A couple of months ago a woman here was caught totally pissed mid afternoon on the way to pick up her children from school.
    
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    November 15, 2023 8:31am
    - sirknz
      
      When I was at high school, our regular school bus driver would often turn up way over the limit, reeking of booze. If any of use were smokers and flicked a lighter at the time, the whole front half of the bus would’ve been engulfed in a fireball.
      
      Ah, the good old days when ‘Hi Vis’ was just a greeting to the Slavic guy with the hard to pronounce name.
      
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      November 15, 2023 9:02am
      - David Garrett
        
        Ah, the good old days when ‘Hi Vis’ was just a greeting to the Slavic guy with the hard to pronounce name
        
        Very Good Sir!
        
        I find it amusing that up here in Tonga, if linemen are working on power lines, or someone is cutting branches on trees by the roadside, they seem to manage on less than half a dozen road cones rather than the 50-100 apparently required for similar work in NZ.
        
        Even more ridiculous is the stop/go person – at least 50 metres from the action – who is required to wear a hard hat. ‘Elf and Safety gone mad.
        
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        November 15, 2023 9:36am
      - lifesgood
        
        When I was at high school we had a guidance counsellor, part of whose job was to help students with drink problems, show up every day reeking of alcohol. I never knew why the school did nothing about it.
        
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        November 15, 2023 9:41am
      - Taieri
        
        who is required to wear a hard hat.
        ————–
        
        Hard hats are indispensable. They save lives.
        Once upon the time we paid off the ship in an Australian port. As the ship came down from Singapore none of the crew was safety inducted for that particular place. In consequence we had to wear hi-vis vests and hard hats on the bus taking us from the wharf to the gate. When I questioned the wisdom of this, I was told by the bus driver that “either you wear the hard hat and hi-vis vest or you are not going anywhere”.
        
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        November 15, 2023 10:11am
      - NothingLeft
        
        High school guidance counsellors are a special breed. My one – a pompous and ignorant dinosaur advised a smart focused guy I knew who struggled a little with math to leave school at 15 and get a trade.
        
        He went on to get a PhD in engineering, start and run a large tech company and then in later life become a professor in engineering.
        
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        November 15, 2023 10:22am
      - David Garrett
        
        Taeri: Of course hard hats save lives ya fool…I wore one every single day of my oilfield career.
        
        But do explain how they “save lives” when the wearer is at least 50 metres away from the action.
        
        Perhaps you need to read more carefully before hitting the keyboard.
        
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        November 15, 2023 1:41pm
    - rouppe
      
      Then perhaps they should have thought to do it tomorrow, after the India-NZ cricket match finishes
      
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      November 15, 2023 9:02am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Nah, that would create extra work. Can’t have that.
        
        9 3
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        November 15, 2023 9:33am
    - MCōs
      
      When I began my working career in 1967 it was still the days of 6pm closing and 8-9am opening
      There were a couple of pubs in Wellington, however, that had licenses to open at 6am and there was always a queue of people waiting outside
      Plenty of people don’t abide by socially acceptable timetables when alcohol dominates their lives.
      
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      November 15, 2023 9:04am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        In Auckland it was the Gleesons, Fanshaw/Hobson streets.
        Presumably is was for sea freight crews after berthing.
        
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        November 15, 2023 9:38am
      - jedmo
        
        There was a pub on Lambton Quay somewhere, (deBretts?) that had such a permit to open at 6am, that I walked past every morning en route to my filing clerk job at NMLA in 1972. One morning with 20 yo curiosity wound up to the max I stepped inside at 7am to see what went on…about 3 or 4 sad species of the “down and outers” who you’d see wandering the streets back then propping up the bar, slops and butts over the floor…curiosity sated; never again!
        
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        November 15, 2023 11:23am
      - Observant Octagenarian
        
        The Pier, the Post Office and the Waterloo had early opening licenses to cater for the wharfies working night shift, so they could have a beer at the end of their working shift.
        
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        November 15, 2023 11:48am
      - zulumonster
        
        Observant Octagenarian – I used to frequent the Waterloo on a Friday morning at the end of a week’s night shift. It was eye opening to see how many punters (clearly office workers) came from the railways station, into the bar for a quick snifter and then off to their place of work.
        
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        November 15, 2023 1:26pm
    - slightlyrighty
      
      Just a few months ago some civil servant chrashed her car into a parked ute a couple of bays over after having a few….
      
      Think it might even have made the news….Kiri something or other??
      
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      November 15, 2023 9:27am
      - David Garrett
        
        slighty: Yes, I remember that case. I’m pretty sure the person in question worked in “the justice sector” in some capacity…Not a policeman, not a judge…
        
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        November 15, 2023 9:38am
      - Ghost
        
        According to her it was an attempt to kill herself
        
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        November 15, 2023 9:42am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Ghost – she’s telling lies. It was an attempt to get sympathy and support her bs claims of ‘mental health’ problems.
        
        Crashing a modern vehicle like the one she was driving, at the speed she was doing, would have had an almost 0% chance of hurting her, let alone killing her.
        It was an action designed to support her subsequent excuses. She’s a lawyer, she knew what she was doing.
        
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        November 15, 2023 10:27am
      - Ghost
        
        It will be interesting to see in the court case if she holds to the claim and what she presents as evidence
        
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        November 15, 2023 10:35am
      - NothingLeft
        
        @Ghost. This is the part of her story I find unbelievable. No one dies in a low speed urban car crash of a big expensive taxpayer-supplied car into a parked car. She wasn’t even injured. That’s not ‘attempted suicide’ it’s a destructive cry for attention.
        
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        November 15, 2023 10:29am
      - Paulus
        
        Kiri something you say – understand as she had a medical condition at the time no prosecution will continue.
        
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        November 15, 2023 1:48pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        All she had to do was to swing the wheel the other way & splash down in Evans Bay. Lock the doors & it would have been a race between drowning & immolation.
        
        So, I’m calling bullshit on the suicide claim.
        
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        November 15, 2023 6:28pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      For that reason I’ve always been a supporter of the US style ‘competence test’ over breath test. The breath test is only an indicator of a possible problem.
      
      If someone can’t walk toe to toe along a white line or can’t follow your finger moving from side to side, means they have a serious problem that may lead to an accident on the road. Also, alcohol may have nothing to do with their ability to drive or not.
      
      What else is in their system, including legal pharmaceuticals?
      
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      November 15, 2023 10:20am
      - miltonF
        
        Totally agree. The impairment test makes sense for so many reasons. People have different tolerances for drugs and alcohol. Someone might be unsafe to drive after 1 drink whereas someone else might have a few and be fine.
        
        The impairment test would also pick up hundreds (thousands?) of drivers every year that are under the influence of pharmaceutical drugs. Which I suspect is the exact reason why we don’t do impairment tests. Big pharma clearly has a lot of influence in NZ.
        
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        November 15, 2023 2:01pm
      - Ghost
        
        Sorry for the big cut and paste mod
        
        The Land Transport (Drug Driving) Amendment Act 2022 came into force on 11 March 2023. This new legislation introduces changes to the Land Transport Act 1998 and is part of the ‘Road to Zero’ strategy.
        
        The key changes are the addition of Schedule 5 and new blood tests to measure the amount (concentration) of drugs in the blood.
        
        Schedule 5 contains 25 ‘listed qualifying drugs’ (4 illicit drugs and 21 prescription medicines). These drugs have been identified as having the highest risk to road safety.Blood tests will be used to measure the blood concentration of listed qualifying drugs. The blood concentration determines the type of offence, which may be a fine, demerit points, licence disqualification, or a criminal conviction.
        
        Police will continue to stop drivers at random to check for alcohol or drug driving. If a person fails a Compulsory Impairment Test (a behavioural test to check for impairment), they will be required to take a blood test to check for the presence of drugs. With the law change, blood concentration levels will also be measured for Schedule 5 drugs.
        
        If a qualifying drug is identified, a medical defence is available for the use of prescription medicines for drug driving offences:
        
        if the driver can demonstrate that they took the medicine according to a current and valid prescription from health practitioner, andthey have followed any instructions from a health practitioner or manufacturer of the medicine
        
        Medsafe
        
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        November 15, 2023 2:13pm
      - miltonF
        
        @Ghost
        
        Why is a “medical defence” allowed if you have a prescription for these drugs? That doesn’t change the fact that you are impaired and behind the wheel. I believe this means that if I gain a medical prescription for cannabis, I can drive legally while completely stoned? If I have a prescription for opiates, I can be behind the wheel, nodding off, can’t keep my eyes open, but still legal to drive?
        
        Doesn’t make any sense from a safety perspective. If you’re impaired you’re impaired.
        
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        November 15, 2023 2:59pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Last year at work I went out in the 10am hot sun to do 3 x Trailer WOFs.
    Boss comes out to help. “Did you get on the piss last night” he asks. “Yeah.” I was sweating it out. Over the limit happens quite often in the mornings and you don’t even know it.
    
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    November 15, 2023 8:34am
  - cmm
    
    Plenty alcoholics have whisky and wheetbix for breakfast.
    
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    November 15, 2023 8:50am
    - David Garrett
      
      cmm: A certain company man (the head sharang on an oil rig) in Taranaki used to start his day with a quart bottle of Lion Red…and thereafter there was one on his table throughout the day.
      
      Then there was a certain Arnold ‘the boar’ Schafer who used to stagger up to the rig floor pissed, and take over for half an hour or so. We roughnecks heaved a sigh of relief when he staggered back to his trailer again.
      
      He later managed to cut off his own hand using a wire rope around a capstan that was designed for hemp rope only. Very limited ‘Elf and Safety in the oilfield 40 years ago
      
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      November 15, 2023 9:44am
      - Taieri
        
        Very limited ‘Elf and Safety in the oilfield 40 years ago
        ———
        
        Nowadays it takes a few hours everyday just to do the safety paperwork. You can’t even change a light bulb without a risk assessment and work permit.
        
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        November 15, 2023 10:16am
      - cmm
        
        It goes back forever.
        
        During the agricultural age, one of the big employment opportunities was harvesting (eg. cutting wheat etc by hand). One of the expected fringe benefits for the people working in the field was cider. The quality of (ie. alcohol content of), and amount of, cider available was often a draw card to attract limited labour resources, so everyone turned a blind eye to over imbibing.
        
        Lots of people ended up cutting themselves with sickles, crashing wagons etc etc.
        
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        November 15, 2023 10:36am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        In days gone by, it was healthier to drink beer than to drink water. 2-3% beer is sterile, and as long as you paced yourself, you wouldn’t even get tipsy.
        
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        November 15, 2023 6:31pm
- Yvette
  
  Ingestion tacts – their chief didn’t hear right
  
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  November 15, 2023 8:23am
- Michael Johnston
  
  That explains why my bus is caught in slow traffic along the Parade. Or maybe it’s the fact that the council closed a car lane at the city end for a little used bike lane, creating a bottleneck for cars.
  
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  November 15, 2023 8:29am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Why would they expect wellingtonian’s to hit the bottle so early in the day? Something to do with the council, the weather, being the seat of power …… ?
  
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  November 15, 2023 8:35am
  - MCōs
    
    None of the above
    
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    November 15, 2023 9:09am
  - pdm
    
    I didn’t think overpaid civil servants, working from home as they are said to do, would have any need to leave home at all in the morning.
    
    Most of them probably haven’t even climbed out of bed at 8am.
    
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    November 15, 2023 9:11am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    Police get paid extra for traffic enforcement and there is insufficient oversight of when and where that enforcement happens. So they do it when it is convenient for them based on their other workload.
    
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    November 15, 2023 9:19am
- Surely Knott
  
  A pr excercise to remind you to not drink at your company work event in the evening. Not sure why there is car congestion in a green voting city. Shouldn’t they all be on bikes?
  
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  November 15, 2023 9:06am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Might be nationwide, a mate got breath tested for no reason in the middle of the day yesterday.
  
  Obviously now Labour have gone all the crime has been fixed…..//
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:13am
- Groggy
  
  They regularly do checkpoints as part of the training programme for the new cops being trained in Porirua. So the checkpoint would have been staffed by trainees and their instructors.
  
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  November 15, 2023 12:28pm
- cmm
  
  kk: I suggest that if you instead assaulted a burglar they’d be there in few shakes of a lamb’s tail.
  
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  November 15, 2023 5:28pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Health. Went to the Doctor yesterday for a checkup, and to see progress on my rotor cuff tear. Have had two cortisone injections early this year.
Seems I am now not even on a waiting list! I was, since July last year.
So why did I get bumped off? Can only be Labour wanting to keep the waiting list numbers lower. Hear I am 18 months later and still in pain and taking heavy painkiller, which I hate.
Fuck you Labour.
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November 15, 2023 8:18am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Here* I am. ffs
  
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  November 15, 2023 8:26am
  - Biscuit
    
    At last I have a typo-making buddy in Kiwiblog!
    
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    November 15, 2023 8:31am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I make a lot. Proof read don’t work sometimes. I guess I look at the comment as an image, not the spelling!
      
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      November 15, 2023 8:37am
      - Dave
        
        Competent readers read predictively, ie, they have good ability to predict what the next phrase and meaning will be and don’t read slowly one word at a time.
        
        When you have just written something, you know what you meant to write, so it can be very difficult to see what you actually wrote, especially if you are in a hurry.
        
        At least, that’s how I, a former English teacher, rationalise embarrassing errors in my internet comments.
        
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        November 15, 2023 8:53am
      - David Garrett
        
        Dave: Any “lawyers letter” I write which is longer than one page is always proof read by one of my secretaries before it goes out. Amazing the number of typos thus picked up.
        
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        November 15, 2023 9:53am
- Surely Knott
  
  White people need health insurance in NZ
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:24am
Maggy Wassilieff

Let’s have a Referendum…..

or a Commission

or just sneak in a few more Principles…..

Chris Trotter dissects the issue:

The day that was always going to dawn has arrived. The day when the unmandated revision of the meaning, purpose and scope of the Treaty of Waitangi runs into the numerical majority of New Zealanders who, according to the pollsters, have run out of patience with the “Treatyists” insistence that ‘Non-Māori’ have an open-ended obligation to acknowledge and fulfil what are now their unabashedly revolutionary constitutional claims.

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/chris-trotter-time-to-choose
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November 15, 2023 8:19am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  There are already 31 Principles. That is more than enough for the ongoing corruption.
  Bin the Waitangi Tribunal and all connections. Time for Te Pakeha to stop paying for the rorts.
  
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  November 15, 2023 8:26am
  - imalwaysright
    
    S.O
    
    I’m surprised how many people are talking about principles of a treaty.
    
    The only thing that matters is the intent of the treaty.
    
    The intent has been achieved.
    
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    November 15, 2023 9:00am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The intent of the Waitangi Tribunal James Freeman rogue version has been achieved. Hugh Kawharu added in “forestry and fisheries” which are not in the original Henry Littlewood 1840 version.
      We have been paying for that lie for nearly 50 years.
      Principles where started by idiot Geoffrey Palmer. They really have no conclusion. Just shit. He introduced 6. Now there are 31.
      
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      November 15, 2023 9:47am
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      Which principle of te Tiriti is Marama referring to when she demands the reindigenisation of aotearoa?
      
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      November 15, 2023 10:33am
      - Suze Wainwright
        
        Sorry, found it – it’s in the same principle that proclaims all violence in the Aorangi is committed by te CIS pakeha Tane…
        
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        November 15, 2023 1:15pm
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Yes. The Treaty was once and done. After it was ratified, everyone was a subject of the Crown. With all the rights and obligations of British citizens.
      
      A pretty sweet deal really.
      
      Anything further, was in the words of a wise chief justice, a legal nullity.
      
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      November 15, 2023 11:01pm
- cmm
  
  Anything other than a referendum will just be turned into poi-waving.
  
  And anything other than a binding referendum will just be ignored.
  
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  November 15, 2023 8:27am
  - Mark Hanley
    
    BANG ON CMM.
    
    it makes you wonder why National / ACT don’t run more referenda to cement policies in place.
    
    Here are a few suggestions of laws which should be cemented in place using referenda (referenda can be electronic and cheap – The Swiss managed it)…
    = curriculum and regular student/school test results reports
    = spending / debt ceiling
    = government headcount and consultant ceilings
    = MPs conflicts of interest policy and policing
    = compulsory audits of Ministers’ wealth before/during/after their tenure in government
    = performance based teacher/principal pay
    = climate change response/tax/spending
    = government spending and debt ceilings
    
    referenda worked for the end of life and the marijuana legalization bills.
    
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    November 15, 2023 9:08am
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      How would you measure teacher performance objectively and fairly?
      
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      November 15, 2023 9:29am
      - Master Mariner
        
        Simple, by results.
        Pretty much how they score exams.
        Pass or fail.
        Measure and record accurate results.
        They are there to teach, not be best friends.
        
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        November 15, 2023 10:27am
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        Replying to Master Mariner: I don’t think it’s quite as simple as that. If you get assigned a tough class with lots of disciplinary problems, you’re unlikely to get good exam results, no matter how good a teacher you are.
        
        And be careful what you wish for. Woke managers will have their own ideas about what constitutes “teacher performance”. Has the teacher done enough to instill “anti-racist” attitudes in the students?
        
        Neoliberals consistently kid themselves about the extent of the changes needed to fix this country. Our institutions need a factory reset.
        
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        November 15, 2023 10:47am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        By assessing the change (if any) in pupils’ learning at the start of the year and the end of the year.
        
        The Teacher who runs the literacy course I volunteer with runs an assessment test (reading comprehension) for her pupils in Term 1 to find out their reading/comprehension age level. She tests them again in Term 4 after they have had 2 terms of 30 min 1:1 help once or twice/week.
        
        The improvement in reading/comprehension ability usually improves markedly ( up to 1-3 years) for each individual.
        
        For my money, the Teacher running this course is doing a good/great job.
        
        An objective appraisal of a teacher’s performance requires some way of assessing individual pupil improvement…. not a class by class assessment.
        
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        November 15, 2023 11:03am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Pope. All the top performing countries test and measure their students and teachers.
        
        NZ used to before our never ending slide down the world education rankings (ranking organisations also use test results to rank countries).
        
        All the parents I talked to through my children’s education wanted to see clear unambigious test results for their children.
        
        The ministry of education regulary undermine student reporting by changing the test ranking system. I saw at least 5 changes to test reports during my children’s time at school. The changes made it progressively harder to ascertain your children’s progress.
        
        The only people who appose testing and reporting students are the people who will be held to account by such reporting.
        
        TEACHERS AND THE MINISTRY OF EDUCATION.
        
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        November 15, 2023 11:55am
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        Replying to Maggy W: Agreed that year-to-year changes in students’ marks in external exams can be used to assess teacher effectiveness. But it has to be via EXTERNAL exams – in-course or in-school assessment can’t prove anything, as it can and WILL be gamed if there’s money at stake.
        
        Replying to Mark Hanley: teachers are only a small part of the problem. School teachers have a hell of a job in 21st century “Aotearoa”, hamstrung as they are by woke curricula, massive truancy problems, and “child-centred” and “everyone’s a winner” teaching philosophies. The MOE is rotten to the core – Luxon’s government must attack this fundamental problem if we’re to turn education around in this country.
        
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        November 15, 2023 1:22pm
      - cmm
        
        Pope
        
        There are ways to figure out reasonable measurements for performance, but it won’t be a one-size-fits-all equation. Just because it has a few challenges does not mean it should not be done.
        
        Just measuring the number of As the pupils get, or the number of NCEA passes, or whatever, is a broken measure because not all pupils are the same. Some are academically gifted, some are not. Some turn up for school, some don’t. So it would be unfair on teachers to measure only the outputs of the pupils.
        
        But life is not fair for anyone. The “measurement” (eg. pay) you get in any job relies partially on your output, partially on the employees around you, partially on the company’s performance, partially on the industry you are in.
        
        Not measuring teachers results in a race to the bottom. People who are slackers and enjoy a cruisy life are drawn to such situations. High quality employees tend to bugger off to where they are acknowledged, appreciated and rewarded (be that a different line of work, or going overseas).
        
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        November 15, 2023 2:50pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      School test results? Nope. Now you get participation comments. They all did very well!
      
      Spending? Why have a ceiling? It is not their money.
      
      Government headcount and consultant ceilings? Nope. Public Sector employment keeps the dole numbers down.
      
      Conflicts of interest? Nope. These are used as diversions from what is really happening.
      
      Compulsory audits of Ministers? No way. Then we might find out who is getting kickbacks from the lobbyists and recipients.
      
      Performance based pay for teachers/Principals? Nope. Then we would find out who the dumb ones are.
      
      Climate change? Nope. It is weather. We are still coming out of a mini ice-age from 10,000 years ago.
      
      Govt spending? Been covered, see above.
      ———–
      It has all become like this because of busybodies meddling in things they know nothing about. Oh, and political correctness.
      
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      November 15, 2023 10:03am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Steve. I understand your cynicism given the corruption of the nz government and media over the last 6 years.
        
        I know luxon will be honourable, hard working, and clever. Those are the three qualities which are most important in a prime minister.
        
        3 qualities which have been absent from all levels of the nz government and media for 6 years
        
        So let’s give luxon a chance.
        
        He transformed the national Party and won the election.
        
        He can do the same for the country despite the many obstacles.
        
        Obstacle 1. Winston Peters.
        
        I hope the kbers a who asked us to vote for Peters are watching his despicable, expensive, demeaning, and senseless Road blocks and stalling antics
        
        Perhaps this time you will learn.
        
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        November 15, 2023 12:41pm
  - Beach Haven expat
    
    Exactly. Chloe, arguing against the referendum pre-election, said we should have a debate – ie Chloe and those agreeing with Chloe telling us what to do. Possibly in her shrieking demo voice.
    
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    November 16, 2023 11:14am
- Swifty
  
  We weren’t given a say on the evolution of the principles over the last 40 years and, now that they’ve gone way too far, they would also deny us any say even today.
  
  Are we still living in a Western democracy? Or are we in fact ruled by a largely unelected elite who will dictate to us what we can and cannot have any say in – with a backdrop of menacing threats should we insist on an open debate and free vote?
  
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  November 15, 2023 8:37am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Principles are not in the TOW, either version.
    
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    November 15, 2023 10:06am
  - Taieri
    
    Or are we in fact ruled by a largely unelected elite who will dictate to us what we can and cannot have any say in
    ———-
    
    We are. Politicians seem to act just as rubber stamps, fronting up with whatever the backroom people decide to cook up. Not really surprising considering the quality of our elected “representatives”…
    
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    November 15, 2023 10:21am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Agree. Chris Luxon is dead wrong. He says a referendum will be “divisive”. What does he think is happening now? 😳 It is not an argument.
  
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  November 15, 2023 8:44am
  - kowtow
    
    Yeah well general elections are “divisive” , perhaps we should do without them too…….
    
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    November 15, 2023 8:49am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      We nearly did. Where do you think Ardern was heading?
      Go back to her speech in 2009. That will tell you.
      
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      November 15, 2023 10:10am
  - Mark Hanley
    
    Luxon hasn’t ruled out a referendum and Seymour has mentioned the importance of a referendum a few times lately.
    
    I’m hopeful.
    
    We should know next week.
    
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    November 15, 2023 9:09am
    - slightlyrighty
      
      The fact is, the revision of the treaty was done without meaningful public consultation. Surely a similar process could be justified in restoring some sort of Status Quo Ante?
      
      But then that could be just as divisive as the process that we have already gone through.
      
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      November 15, 2023 9:31am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        That is why the Waitangi Tribunal should be rubbished.
        The public had no say. The Tribunal was supposed to give Govt recommendations. Now the Tribunal makes the payout decisions.
        
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        November 15, 2023 10:13am
    - G152
      
      Luxon should go talk to the Maori Party since Winston wants to play games
      
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      November 15, 2023 9:54am
      - Ghost
        
        Or people should stop reading the media and thinking they know what is going on. Last night Seymour said there was no formal agreement to meet yesterday
        
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        November 15, 2023 10:00am
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        Luxon approach Te Paati Racist? What on earth would that achieve?
        
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        November 15, 2023 10:48am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Luxon is a manager who favours salve for difficult issues. That much seems pretty clear now. Salve, of course, leaves the root issue festering away for someone else to deal with.
    
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    November 15, 2023 9:12am
- David Garrett
  
  Maggy: Mr Trotter appears to be living proof of the old adage that if you are not a socialist at 18 you have no heart, but if you are still one at age 21, you have no brain.
  
  It’s taken Ol’ Chris about 40 years longer than the rest of us to make that “journey” – as the current vernacular has it – but he’s got there is the end.
  
  What is really pissing me off about the current debate is the MSM continuing to refer to “a referendum on the Treaty” which is not what is proposed – and sadly few people would now disagree that it is our “founding document” as Cooke CJ opined in 1987. (I say sadly because in strictly legal terms, the Treaty remains the “legal nullity” is was labeled back in 1875)
  
  What is proposed – as the MSM well knows – is a referendum on the principles of the Treaty, which is a very different thing from a referendum on the Treaty itself. They are being deliberately misleading – but then that’s hardly new.
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:15am
  - Taieri
    
    a referendum on the principles of the Treaty
    ———
    
    Not really, principles can’t be established by a referendum. They either exist or they don’t. If they exist they are self evident.
    
    The proposed referendum is on the reaffirmation of the basic democratic constitutional principles as understood by their proponents and as practiced in the past in NZ.
    
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    November 15, 2023 10:29am
    - Cassandra
      
      Splitting hairs. The referendum is to confirm principles legislated by Parliament. A sensible course would be to take a year over it, pass the law and confirm it at the 2026 election.
      
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      November 15, 2023 11:00am
      - Taieri
        
        Splitting hairs
        ———-
        
        Not at all. Past legislation including ambiguous “principles” got us to the stage we are at now.
        
        If the terms of the proposed referendum were to be clearly stated the progressive “journalists” and “anti-racists” wouldn’t be able to claim what they claim that the referendum is to be on the Treaty.
        
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        November 15, 2023 11:37am
      - David Garrett
        
        Cass: As I understand it, that is exactly what Seymour is proposing: first pass a law spelling out the “principles”, with the law only coming into effect if it is approved by X% of voters at a referendum.
        
        That is exactly what Mr Seymour did with the Assisted Dying legislation, which is why we now have an Assisted Dying Act (or whatever it’s called)
        
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        November 15, 2023 1:48pm
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    I think the correct quote is: “If a person is not a LIBERAL when he is twenty, he has no heart; if he is not a conservative when he is forty, he has no head.”
    
    It says nothing about socialism, and Chris Trotter is still a socialist. He has recently described himself as a “left conservative”: he leans right on culture, and left on economics.
    
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    November 15, 2023 10:52am
    - Colinxy
      
      If true, he cannot be a Hegelian socialist (e.g., any derivative of Marx or Fascism), which is promising. Still deluded, but quite an improvement from the Greens, Maori and (the modern) Labour parties.
      
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      November 15, 2023 11:20am
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        Why deluded? The French Gaullist Party very successfully lent right on culture and left on economics. Post WWII Gaullist France enjoyed an unprecedented period of sustained economic growth known as the “Trente Glorieuses” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trente_Glorieuses.
        
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        November 15, 2023 1:31pm
      - Colinxy
        
        Two basic points, France was at a low point with their economy at the start and secondly, the Marshal Plan.
        
        We have seen Christian socialism fail, for example, the pilgrims in the colonies: https://reason.com/2022/11/23/the-pilgrims-dreamed-of-socialism-then-socialism-almost-killed-them/
        
        I doubt they could be considered left wing culturally. They also lacked outside help to prop them up.
        
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        November 15, 2023 2:02pm
peterwn

Seemed Winston did not show up for coalition meetings yesterday and there were just a few phone calls. Wonder if he was wanting to flex his muscles and show Chris and David that he actually runs the show.
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November 15, 2023 8:24am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  People were warned about slippery Winston yet they still voted for him thinking slippery is a good thing.
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:20am
  - Ghost
    
    People were warned about the media but it’s amazing how many here are still falling for what they’re writing about negotians when most politicians aren’t talking
    
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    November 15, 2023 10:22am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Maybe media are making shit up?
      Nah, they wouldn’t do that.//
      
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      November 15, 2023 10:56am
- ClanMcleod
  
  There’s far too much speculation going on right now. Maybe just wait until there’s something tangible to comment on or discuss rather than all the ‘ifs’, ‘buts’ and ‘maybes’.
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:34am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    A fair bit of it is media driven. They are like women spurned. So they speculate, because what else are they going to do?
    
    Treat it like the drivel that it is.
    
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    November 15, 2023 6:38pm
- Burtland
  
  Winston is doing his job – 6% voted for him to be a “spanner in the works” or “fly in the ointment” and they got it – democracy in action delivered via MMP
  
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  November 15, 2023 12:59pm
Maggie Pie

Thort this might be worth sharing?

As part of an upcoming presentation I’m involved with, I’ve been doing research
into the origin of the word ‘Hooker’.

You may find this post as interesting as I did….

https://twitter.com/historyinmemes/status/1724488421765206016
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November 15, 2023 8:30am
- Yvette
  
  “Steve – Here we go. Another day of …” should read this
  
  Soldiers had a code of honor to not shoot at anyone who was pooping
  
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  November 15, 2023 8:50am
- Local Miller
  
  I’ve heard before that General Hooker was the source of the name.
  
  And Maggie Pie (said with lots of sugar in the voice), the word is “thought”, unless you’re deliberately using eye dialect.
  
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  November 15, 2023 9:25am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It is code aimed at those who can actually think.
    
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    November 15, 2023 10:24am
Jmac

Paddy Gower wants NZ to become a Republic.

A lesser discussed aspect is what happens to the Treaty with the Crown removed?
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November 15, 2023 8:31am
- lifesgood
  
  Paddy Gower pffft! Enough said.
  
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  November 15, 2023 9:45am
  - G152
    
    Shouting at royalty evidently wanting to be noticed for yet another face for the print media TV show
    
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    November 15, 2023 9:56am
  - Flossie
    
    Who amongst us takes him seriously!
    
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    November 15, 2023 10:15am
    - Jack5
      
      Gower: This is the f-n republic!
      
      https://youtu.be/7xv_pfIK60k?si=JDf_565_gM1yMBpC
      
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      November 15, 2023 11:10am
  - henrybryn
    
    Could you explain your last post thanks
    
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    November 15, 2023 11:29am
- OlderChas
  
  Paddy Gower. The epitome of a MMM (Media Manufactured Megastar).
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:07am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Republic like Venezuela or Zimbabwe?
  Or does he mean USA?
  New Zealand or R T Rower?
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:27am
Pope Punctilious II

The Tertiary Education Union is complaining that Auckland Uni has failed in their sacred duty to defend academic freedom, because they haven’t done enough to protect Siouxsie Wiles and Shaun Hendy from abuse: https://teu.ac.nz/news/siouxsie-wiles-case-highlights-a-wider-threat-to-academic-freedom/

So where was the TEU when the so-called Listener Seven exercised their academic freedom by questioning the government’s decree that maatauranga is “co-equal” with so-called Western science? The TEU criticized the Listener Seven, claiming their letter was “was damaging and ill-advised”: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/447898/university-academics-claim-matauranga-maori-not-science-sparks-controversy
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November 15, 2023 8:48am
- NothingLeft
  
  Wiles has clearly demonstrated that she is an enemy of academic freedom and science, a lot of the ‘calls’ she made through 2020 were clearly wrong, non-scientific and tribally political – designed to appeal to a particular audience. She deserves no voice as an expert – she’s clearly far too enamored of the spotlight and currying peer approval to be trustworthy. A pink haired authoritarian apologist with Dolores Umbridge vibes.
  
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  November 15, 2023 9:57am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  They made the bed, now they can lay in it.
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:31am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    (Pedant alert!!!!!)
    
    As long as their eggs don’t hatch.
    https://www.grammarly.com/blog/lay-lie/
    
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    November 15, 2023 11:43am
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      Nice, Maggy – I’m not keen on them reproducing either.
      
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      November 15, 2023 1:41pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Eggs like that? Please, mind bleach
      
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      November 15, 2023 6:03pm
  - crikey
    
    The media has made their bed and they definitely lie in it.
    
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    November 15, 2023 12:46pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  A few insults should be the very least of the problems that Wiles and Hendy are worrying about. I’m very hopeful that both lose their jobs for serial incompetence and wilful lying during the covid nightmare.
  
  Criminal charges are deserved, but unlikely to be forthcoming for these sewer rats who were parasites sucking off the taxpayer while performing no useful function. I’ll live in hope though, and pray for karma in the meanwhile.
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:44am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Shaun Hendy has settled with Auckland Uni outside of court and now works at an Independent science agency – Toha
    
    https://www.tohascience.org/our-team
    
    (Along with one of my ex-Physics students)
    
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    November 15, 2023 11:48am
    - Jack5
      
      The Dr Lucy Stewart, whose name appears at the top of the Toha web site is surely not the “Dr Lucy Stewart, Toha Science” whose name appears among the signers of the petition attacking the “Listener Seven” for daring question assertions that Maori knowledge is science?
      
      The statement of the petition, headed by Shaun Hendy (also of Toha Science) and Siouxsie Wiles, includes:
      
      The seven Professors describe efforts to reevaluate and revise the significance of Mātauranga in NCEA, including the acknowledgement of the role ‘western’ science has played in rationalising colonisation as contributing to “disturbing misunderstandings of science emerging at all levels of education and in science funding.”
      
      The Professors claim that “science itself does not colonise”, ignoring the fact that colonisation, racism, misogyny, and eugenics have each been championed by scientists wielding a self-declared monopoly on universal knowledge.”
      
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      November 15, 2023 12:17pm
      - Burtland
        
        part of the cancer
        
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        November 15, 2023 1:10pm
Pavel

Did anyone watch Paddy Gower last night. Gotta say I was really impressed by Tame Iti. He’s aged and is a lot wiser than he once was and has matured into someone I would listen to nowadays versus his past attitudes and opinions. He has really grown up and I say that respectfully and I look forward to hearing his opinions in the future.
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November 15, 2023 8:49am
- kevn
  
  Pavel… He has turned into a Pally hugger of late. Feels it personally apparently. For all the indigenous people.
  
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  November 15, 2023 9:46am
Hugh Jarse

Hi media, you lost, National won. You are behaving like a jilted girlfriend making up stories to hit back at the one who is ignoring you, but desperately wanting them to talk to you.

Please place the blame for what’s going on where it belongs, with Winston First and the MMP system that allows a 5% party to do this.
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November 15, 2023 8:55am
- Ghost
  
  National haven’t won until all the deals are signed. You want to place blame on the media then blame peters? Luxon and Winston are barely talking to the media, most of what you are reading is coming from the media, not the political parties. Was there meant to be a meeting yesterday or was that another creation of the media.
  
  Act got just over 8%
  Nz first 6%
  
  So the mmp you don’t like also delivered act.
  
  I think people need to comprehend the amount of damage currently with our government, and what needs to be done, the work is immense and so will be the negotiations to form and fix it.
  
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  November 15, 2023 9:31am
  - Ra Henare
    
    Why all this blame Peters rhetoric???
    
    Just because your favorites, didnt get a clear majority, you are acting like jilted girlfriends.(Thanks Huge)
    
    Peters has more political smarts than all the other political leaders IMHO. He can “”read the room”” where the others wallow around reacting to polls!!
    
    And no I have never voted for him!
    
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    November 15, 2023 5:34pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  The only people who ‘allowed’ Peters to get to the threshold are Luxon and Seymour for being spineless cowards regarding the covid abuses and human rights breaches. And if they aren’t cowards then they are fully complicit which would also explain their silence.
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:46am
RoboRob

Stuff press release

‘After many late nights and extremely hard work on behalf of New Zealand First, we have unfortunately failed to form a good faith agreement with the National party. Nationals mass immigration policy was unacceptable to NZF. However to avoid the time and cost of another election I am pleased to announce that I will be leading a government with Labour. Chris Hipkins will be deputy PM and the other minor parties will sit outside of government and provide confidence and supply. I look forward to continuing the good work I started six years ago.’

Hon Winston R Peters, PM
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November 15, 2023 8:57am
- Kiwiguy
  
  Nice try, but he won’t.
  He’s obsessed with his utu on Labour this time.
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:13am
  - mawm
    
    We have a once in a lifetime opportunity to change the course of the country. Ardern has shown how bad an all-powerful, centralised government is and how they are hell bent on trampling our rights and sovereignty. Luxon is just too weak.
    
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    November 15, 2023 11:36am
- NothingLeft
  
  This is completely believable (not being sarcastic).
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:34am
- RoboRob
  
  Man the Winston lovers are out in strength this morning 🙂
  
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  November 15, 2023 11:22am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Well Winnie might have to rethink his view on immigration. Looks like there ain’t going to be too many Kiwi’s left around the pay his wages if this keeps up!
  https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/record-net-migration-loss-of-new-zealand-citizens/
  
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  November 15, 2023 11:54am
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  Whatever you’re dropping, please keep it away from children.
  
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  November 15, 2023 3:09pm
KH

I wish our journalists would do something useful. There are plenty of good stories to report and inform us.
Instead they chase politicians through airports, don’t get answers of course, then interview their keyboards and make s**t up.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301008821/a-brief-anatomy-of-christopher-luxons-18-second-media-scrum-and-uturn-back-to-winston-peters
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November 15, 2023 8:58am
- Miritu
  
  And yet you read it, thereby supporting Stuff?
  
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  November 15, 2023 9:31am
  - KH
    
    Ya got me there Miritu. I do yearn for good journalism. I should know better.
    
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    November 15, 2023 12:25pm
    - Ghost
      
      Sorry, the best we can do in NZ is tabloid junk
      
      But don’t worry, I’m sure there will shortly be breaking news on stuff from another journalists interviewing their whiskey bottle and crying and begging for saint cindy of the Ardern to return and give them the articles to write and the questions to ask.
      
      Perhaps Luxon can help our media and give them photos of the birthday cake he will make for his son or daughter, or that his son has said his first word, such in depth news we will no longer have without saint Cindy.
      
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      November 15, 2023 12:31pm
- nathie
  
  Looks like Tova again making things up.
  
  Oh dear I won’t be clicking on that “opinion” piece!
  
  (Even the word “opinion” is an overstatement)!
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:08am
  - David Garrett
    
    Nathie: Ms O’Brien is also semi-literate; below the email I sent to her yesterday…No reply of course;
    
    Never use words which you don’t the meaning of
    In 2018, having eked out from the then Justice Minister Andrew Little that the Government was planning to repeal the three strikes law… [emphasis added]
    
    The meaning of the word “eke” is not to extract something from another person or entity.
    (Dr Google is your friend if you don’t have an old fashioned dictionary around) Instead of trying to be clever, you ought to have simply said:
    
    “having extracted a commitment from then Justice Minister Andrew Little…”
    
    My sources – which I suspect are at least as good or better than yours – tell me that what happened was not so much Peters teaching Little a lesson, but rather that the then NZF caucus grew some cojones and told Peters that if he supported the repeal of a law that was: 1) once also NZF policy; and 2) was working exactly as intended, they would roll Peters as leader.
    
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    November 15, 2023 10:26am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The precious petals are at it again. Withdraw a product in case it causes offence. Similar words have upset some bitches. Tough – it is the English language.

https://therecorddaily.com/retailer-withdraws-christmas-item-amidst-controversy-over-insensitive-messaging/?
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November 15, 2023 8:59am
- NothingLeft
  
  All this ‘offence taking’ is performative. People don’t actually get upset, they do however see opportunity for personal profile-raising in pretending that they do. Low hanging fruit for attention-whores.
  
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  November 15, 2023 9:06am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Next it will be Xmas getting banned.
    It will offend the beardy wierdy lefties who still mourn Twitter.
    
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    November 15, 2023 10:25am
    - Ghost
      
      Christmas is being banned already. Haven’t you heard, the covid 5th wave is here, if you are feeling sick don’t attend Xmas celebrations…..
      
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      November 15, 2023 10:31am
    - kowtow
      
      From the UK
      
      ‘The National Trust has come under widespread criticism after excluding Christmas and Easter from their 2024 calendar.
      
      Members of the trust have complained after discovering their annual charity calendar failed to mark the Christian holidays, but did include Hinduism’s Diwali, and Islam’s Eid and Ramadan.’
      
      https://www.gbnews.com/news/national-trust-sparks-fury-after-excluding-christian-holidays-from-calendar
      
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      November 15, 2023 11:40am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Offended, about 3.30 in.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHMoDt3nSHs
    
    3 1
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    November 15, 2023 10:44am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump’s Sister found dead.

https://patriotunitednews.com/trump-family-member-found-dead-in-apartment/?
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November 15, 2023 9:04am
- Cassandra
  
  She was 86, died of cancer. Senior judge in New Jersey and realistic re her brother. She was a good woman.
  
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  November 15, 2023 9:22am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yes, she did well for herself. A senior prosecutor then a Judge.
    
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    November 15, 2023 10:59am
Maggie Pie

Wonder how long until the MP-for-Auckland Chloe Swarbrick comes out and condemns this disgusting antisemitism…

https://twitter.com/IsraelInstNZ/status/1724138918302618024
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November 15, 2023 9:07am
- Local Miller
  
  I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were you.
  
  Do those painting swastikas on Jewish statues, shops, etc. not realize the irony in what they are doing? Maybe they have no understanding of what actually happened in WWII.
  
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  November 15, 2023 9:43am
  - David Garrett
    
    Local Miller: I have found that very few people under 35 understand much at all about WW II.
    
    I am very proud to say that one exception to that generalisation is my daughter. At school – year 12 IIRC – some stupid teacher told her class that Hitler invaded Poland in 1939 because the Poles had killed 80,000 ethnic Germans. This is of course utter nonsense – it was corrected after one of my several visits to the headmaster.
    
    As my very sharp daughter said at the time; “Dad I only know this was rubbish because of what you have taught me about WW II. Most kids in the class won’t have a Dad like you, so they will just believe what Ms X” said.
    
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    November 15, 2023 10:32am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      So did this Ms X get reprimanded? Fined? Sent to a History Class?
      
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      November 15, 2023 11:05am
      - David Garrett
        
        Steve: So far as I know, there were no consequences for Ms X other than having to tell the class that what she had said the previous day was completely wrong.
        
        My daughter said that she – Ms X – looked as if she had just eaten two lemons as she did that.
        
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        November 15, 2023 12:37pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    No, they know exactly what they’re doing. As incredible as it may seem the argument subtly put forward decades ago by some American academics – that the Israelis are actually the new Nazis – has now blossomed into a larger, street-level campaign.
    
    And with support from the MSM it’s yet another Orwellian effort that the Left may succeed in.
    
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    November 15, 2023 10:50am
BeaB

Our media are pathetic. Childish sniggering about politicians, a ‘dash’ to Auckland last night (did the plane go extra fast?), a sneering cartoon this morning, desperate guesses about what might or might not be happening.
No wonder public life in NZ is becoming untenable when these puerile hacks are so disparaging and contemptuous.
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November 15, 2023 9:08am
- Swifty
  
  BeaB, I reckon it’s largely to do with the frequency with which these people are forced to write – daily, or in fact multiple times a day, in the case of the political journos.
  
  Just imagine what their writing would be like if they were limited to one monthly piece. They would be far more likely to pick fewer, bigger issues and examine them more deeply and satisfyingly I believe.
  
  But instead they choose to crank out the stuff constantly – so inevitably they run out of big issues to write about and instead are forced into writing about what people had for breakfast, what colour Winston’s tie is today and, worst of all, often having to manufacture stories i.e. just speculate on what may or may not be happening in order to get something off to the editor and meet their quotas.
  
  Much of it just ends up low calorie garbage.
  
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  November 15, 2023 9:45am
Scott

I notice that political parties are falling over themselves to note the Indian Diwali festival and celebrate it.
Two things for me – first of all I’d be pleased if the same political parties were as excited about Easter as they are about an Indian festival.
Secondly do they understand what it’s actually about?
“Most importantly, Diwali is a religious and spiritual occasion, when Indians gather with family and friends to offer prayers to Maha Lakshmi. Maha Lakshmi is a goddess of wealth and prosperity. ”
https://anjuladevi.com/2018/10/07/diwali-the-true-meaning/#:~:text=Diwali%2C%20also%20called%20Deepavali%20and,all%20over%20the%20world%20rejoice.
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November 15, 2023 9:10am
- Don Beckett
  
  Agree Scott. Diwali is a pagan religious festival, even though it is presented as a friendly occasion – which I’m sure it is, but pagan nevertheless.
  And to many Kiwis, the Christian festivals of Christmas & Easter have largely lost their spiritual & religious meaning & importance.
  Sad, really.
  
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  November 15, 2023 11:28am
  - kowtow
    
    I often wonder if the idiots letting off fire crackers here to ‘celebrate’ whatever it is they think they’re celebrating have even the slightest idea of the significance of the English Reformation and all its many ramifications.
    
    Which live with us to this very day and which have gone so far to make us the prosperous democracy we all enjoy today ( despite the left’s best efforts).
    
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    November 15, 2023 11:46am
RoboRob

Frequent readers will likely know the ‘distaste’ I have for Winston Peters. I will point to these negotiations as an example of why.

On one side we have Luxon and Seymour quietly working on forming a government. On the other we have Winston flying between Auckland and Wellinton in an obvious attempt to avoid sitting down and talking.

p.s. I will add that this sort of childish behaviour from a 78yr old is pitiful.

When Winston claimed he thought Seymours txt was spam, we cut him some slack, after all a txt seemed an in appropriate communication. Now it appears likely that Winston wasn’t taking calls and so Seymour resorted to a txt.

When Winston failed to appear in a Wellington meeting last week and then flew off back to Auckland without telling National or ACT we said, oh they must have annoyed him and he’s flown off in a huff.

This week, they all fly to Wellington for the first three way meeting and Winston doesn’t show. Instead he apparently hops back on a plane and flys back to Auckland. Seymour and Luxon are now flying back to Auckland, chasing Winston.

This is all clearly a pitiful attempt by Winston to try and excerpt power in the negotiations. He knows the Luxon and Seymour wont attack him publicly so he thinks he can get away with it.

I think this is all a bit too much for Winston this time. He is 78 and the last negotiations, 6 years ago, were with JA who was desperate to have him. He held all the cards and was negotiating with a ex fish and chip shop lady with a degree in public relations. It was hardly taxing. This time he is dealing with two strong men and his position of power is significantly reduced. Hopefully the poor media coverage will put an end to cat and mouse Winston and force him to the table.
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November 15, 2023 9:11am
- NothingLeft
  
  Yep leopards don’t change their spots, and everyone’s favorite geriatric narcissist is all about personal aggrandizement, with no care to the damage he does the country.
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:00am
  - David Garrett
    
    NothingLeft: Quite so…and isn’t it ironic that the phrase “the baubles of office” – which has entered the New Zealand lexicon – was coined by him, as something he supposedly wasn’t interested in.
    
    The fact of course is that they are the only thing he’s really interested it. Plus playing stupid games with everyone else.
    
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    November 15, 2023 10:39am
- OlderChas
  
  Is there any evidence that Peters actually flew to Wellington, got off the plane and immediately boarded a plane back to Auckland? If so – and if there’s no personal emergency that caused this – then God help us!
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:19am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Are you going to present anything factual or just keep speculation like the msm?
  
  “……in an obvious attempt
  
  …..Now it appears likely
  
  ….he apparently hops back on a plane
  
  …..I think this is all a bit too much”
  
  And no, Seymour and Luxon are not remotely ‘strong men’. We saw that with their cowardice during covid.
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:57am
  - Ghost
    
    Pretty much, people are just falling for what the media are reporting. Those involved in the negotiations are mostly doing so without speaking to the media. The media are mostly reporting what they imagine is going on, and yet people here are still falling for it.
    
    Yesterday the media were camped out at the airport reporting without facts that Winston was going to meet, last night Seymour admitted there was no formal agreement to meet yesterday, but people still hold on to the dying breath of the media in what they report.
    
    Take a Valium and wait for the announcement it is all done. Also take a moment to look at the state of the country, every public sector is a mess, the negotiations to fix this mess won’t be simple and will be extensive.
    
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    November 15, 2023 11:05am
  - RoboRob
    
    Oh right. The media is out to get Winston. Got it.
    
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    November 15, 2023 11:21am
    - Ghost
      
      No, the media are out to do their usual, report what the media think. How can they report anything else when those involved are mostly refusing to speak to the media about what’s going on?
      
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      November 15, 2023 12:25pm
  - Nukuleka
    
    Clan: change the record. You are becoming a troll in the Mikey mould. It’s becoming tedious.
    
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    November 15, 2023 12:22pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Jog on and don’t read my posts Nukuleka. It’s not rocket science. 😁
      
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      November 15, 2023 12:29pm
Tauhei Notts

Richard Prebble has a good article in this morning’s NZ Herald.
One point got me;
“One third of the Green Party votes were Special Votes.”
In my earlier life I had been an auditor. My job was to look at weird and unusual numbers and decide which oddities needed scrutiny. One third of their votes were Specials? That would warrant scrutiny.
Usually my questions are answered quickly, like, I had seen a company’s financial statements whereby there was $6m sales to Australia, but less than $9000 on foreign travel expenses. One of the directors thanked me for my question as he had become concerned that insufficient attention had been paid to Aussie customers. The foreign travel expense was correct.
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November 15, 2023 9:11am
- kowtow
  
  It’s a very important article and raises a number of very important issues .Not least the whole idea of the electoral roll being published in order to prevent fraud ( this scrutiny is defeated by on the day enrollment)
  
  His concluding para ;
  “We need to know whether election day enrolments is empowering participation in democracy, or whether election day enrolment is destroying the integrity of our elections”.
  
  Indeed.
  
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  November 15, 2023 9:23am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    The only real possibility of fraud is people who are not citizens or permanent residents enrolling to vote, given that MMP is primarily about the percentage each party gets, rather than how many electorates each party wins.
    I guess the issue about enrolling on the day of the election is that visitors and non permanent residents would be more likely to enrol on that day, rather than earlier.
    So far as I am aware, the Electoral Commission doesn’t check whether people are citizens or permanent residents. Not just for the people who enrol on election day, but for anyone, no matter when they enrol. It is essentially a trust system.
    I wonder what percentage of special votes were those who enrolled on the day and who were not born in New Zealand?
    
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    November 15, 2023 9:50am
    - kowtow
      
      ‘rather than how many electorates each party wins.’
      
      tell that to the electorate MP , and his voters who possibly lost due to only 4 or 5 votes ,when the possibility of fraud due to say only 5 or 10 fraudsters……
      
      Surely the principles of democracy need to be upheld !
      
      It goes to the very heart of what our democracies are about.
      
      In these so divisive , activist days “trust” just doesn’t cut it.
      
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      November 15, 2023 10:10am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Wayne
      I wasn’t born here but i am a citizen.
      I had to enrol on election day and i supplied contact details.
      No one has contacted me.
      I was expecting an email or a text to verify my identity in some way.
      
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      November 15, 2023 10:37am
      - cmm
        
        “I had to enrol on election day”
        Not really, you could have enrolled months ago.
        
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        November 15, 2023 12:30pm
    - cmm
      
      The problem with trust is that it depends on people’s value which are often cultural.
      
      A high trust society is extremely vulnerable to abuse from low-trust individuals and cultures, especially when there are hand outs at stake.
      
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      November 15, 2023 12:33pm
      - kowtow
        
        Big danger from the cynical political establishemnt too , and all their hangers on.
        
        I see NZers as a victim of this.
        
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        November 15, 2023 2:54pm
    - rouppe
      
      So far as I am aware, the Electoral Commission doesn’t check whether people are citizens or permanent residents
      
      In this day and age, that is flat out stupid
      
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      November 15, 2023 1:08pm
  - Local Miller
    
    The election roll should be closed at some point before the election, say 2 weeks before, with no election day enrolment. There should be a provision that anyone who turns 18 up to and including the day of the election can register to vote, but this must happen before the roll is closed. As with the election date, the date the roll closes must be published and advertised as part of the election “advertising”. Anyone not registered by then, tough!
    
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    November 15, 2023 9:57am
- MCōs
  
  Prebble writes
  “In my earlier life I had been an auditor.”
  He became a barrister and solicitor in 1971 and an MP in 1975 at the age of 27.
  Not much experience as an auditor in his ‘earlier life’
  
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  November 15, 2023 9:30am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    Mcos, your comprehension skills are sadly lacking.
    
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    November 15, 2023 12:10pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Reread what Tauhei Notts wrote…and note where the quotation marks close.
    
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    November 15, 2023 12:15pm
- Bullion
  
  He got the special vote % wrong for the Greens.
  
  Greens got 14.67% of the special vote – compared with 10.78% in the preliminary vote. Greens always poll better in special votes, this was to be expected.
  
  It is very easy to check, anyone can just copy and paste the preliminary votes and final results of the election into a spread sheet and work it out.
  https://elections.nz/media-and-news/2023/election-night-results-for-the-2023-general-election/
  
  https://elections.nz/media-and-news/2023/official-results-for-the-2023-general-election/
  
  The NZ Herald needs to be better and proofing opinion pieces before they publish them.
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:23am
  - Bullion
    
    Don’t worry, I misread Prebble’s comment on Green’s vote – not a third of special votes, a third of Green’s total vote. He’s still wrong:
    
    The proportion of each parties total vote that were special votes:
    National Party 19.33%
    Labour Party 21.43%
    Green Party 26.87%
    ACT New Zealand 17.99%
    New Zealand First Party 16.34%
    Te Pāti Māori 33.62%
    
    For context, 21.26% of votes were special votes. Parties not in parliament ranged from 18.49% to 32.47% with an mean of 24.86% of their votes being special votes. Again, Green’s not that out of the ordinary.
    
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    November 15, 2023 10:36am
    - Tauhei Notts
      
      Bullion, thank you.
      I note that 60.49% of the Special Votes went to Greens and the Maori party.
      A sort of statistic that puts my bs detectors upon alert. There is something pungent there, and I do not know where the smell is coming from.
      
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      November 15, 2023 12:15pm
      - Bullion
        
        you got that wrong. 19.55% of special votes went to Greens/TPM. Greens received 14.67% of the special votes, TPM 4.88%.
        
        What you have done is taken what proportion of the Greens vote were special votes (26.87%) and what proportion of TPMs vote were special votes (33.62%) and added them together.
        
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        November 15, 2023 12:44pm
      - Tauhei Notts
        
        Bullion, thank you once again.
        Am I getting old to stuff up that analysis so badly.
        
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        November 15, 2023 8:48pm
- NothingLeft
  
  “One third of the Green Party votes were Special Votes.”
  
  Green voters do stand out as being a bit special, in the language butchering euphemistic PC way.
  
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  November 15, 2023 11:16am
Swifty

Quite a few times over the years, online, Islamists have encouraged me to ‘do your research’ on Islam, ‘study the religion more’ as though a deeper understanding of it will somehow lift me out of my scepticism and transport me into being a true believer.

I presume they think that getting sucked further into the vortex will somehow break down my resistance, that I will magically lower my barriers and come to accept their stories as truth.

Well I’m sorry, that won’t work on me, I know all I need to know – that Islam’s foundational events involving a god, an archangel whispering stories, night travels on winged creatures, multiple ascensions to heaven for hui etc, never happened.

Not only did they not happen, they can’t have happened.

For reasons known only to him, Joel Maxwell tries the same tactic today on Maori issues. He puts a lack of belief in the desirability of separating the country by race down to not knowing enough Maori, or not hanging around marae enough.

If we only did these things more we could come to believe.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/301007722/maybe-those-mori-voices-on-referendum-impact-arent-making-threats

Well I’m sorry Joel. Just like the Islamists you’re once again wide of the mark. Racial separatism is wrong, privileging by race is wrong, multiple classes of citizenship is wrong, having an open-ended expansion of made-up treaty ‘principles’ is wrong – and no budding up to Maori or saturating ourselves in Maoritanga is going to change that.

The treaty grievance industry has gone way, way too far and for too long. The idea that 183 years ago any signatories to the treaty had in mind that in 2023 fulfilment of the articles would mean 50% control of civil institutions, favoured access to services, equity in life outcomes (over equality of opportunities), billions and billions of funding annually for Maori over that of other citizens, special allocations of radio spectrum, guaranteed presence on democratically elected bodies et etc is not just fanciful – in my view it is a deliberate deception.

Just like whispering archangels it is made up.

An invention.

Joel Maxwell is clutching at straws. He thinks we are fools.
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November 15, 2023 9:12am
- rouppe
  
  What people like Maxwell are actually doing, is the same thing they accused white racist people of doing.
  
  Promoting mono cultural assimilation
  
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  November 15, 2023 9:58am
  - Jack5
    
    From his previous scribblings, Maxwell, who is part-Maori, awakened to the Maori part of his heritage in middle age, and is propagating this new knowledge with the zeal of a recent convert.
    
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    November 15, 2023 10:20am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Jack5 – undoubtedly enamoured by the financial and other advantages he is now actively advocating for.
      Quelle surprise.
      
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      November 15, 2023 11:01am
- Notsofast
  
  Sarah Haider left the cult because the more she looked the worse it looked. It is impossible to find a way around the evidence. For most it is too dangerous to leave.
  Even allowing an interpretation that deprives women of education and has women arrested for the clothes they don’t wear is sufficient for a verdict of guilty as charged. The western world has screwed this one bad, and it is all too late.
  
  On Triggernometry
  
  https://youtu.be/55x9ndmkUpA?si=sdwBfBOlQbj_xR_Y
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:45am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  He thinks we are fools.
  
  He knows many of us are very easy to fool.
  
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  November 15, 2023 12:23pm
  - Swifty
    
    Yes, good point.
    
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    November 15, 2023 1:43pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Just a small note.
  Both Islam and Christianity come from the same source.
  Abrahamic monotheistic religion
  
  You may surprised to know that the Quran has many many reverences to Jesus.
  
  Just as there are many branches of Christianity, Protestant, Lutherism, Jehovahs, Catholics etc etc etc
  All with variations on a theme. and Some quite radical.
  
  so there are with branches of Islam think Sunnis, Shiah etc etc. Again some conservative branches and some elements are quite radical.
  
  The current meme is to equate Hamas radicals representing Islam. Even a semi sane mind will understand that is silly thinking. But of course it is the propaganda being spread by Israel and its western Supporters.
  
  I find it interesting that Hamas is reported in the MSM (and KB commenters) as a terrorist organisation. Even tho the MAJORITY of the UN Membership do not.
  In fact only 7 Countries plus the EU have given it this designation.
  
  In a different environment they have been identified as freedom fighters.
  
  Hence a lot of the Free Palestine marches are based on this perception.
  
  Yes the attacks on the 7th October were horrendous, as is/was the bombing of Gaza, Dresden, London Hiroshima and other atrocities of war.
  
  Unfortunately in NZ, the population is bombarded with “”PR”” messages about Israel good, Hamas bad. Sort of like the Kiwi sheep who were bombarded with lockup/Vaccine good freedom of choice bad.
  
  So I expect to get attacked by the minimalist thinkers here who are still living on emotions and havent yet transitioned to rational thought.
  
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  November 15, 2023 6:35pm
  - Swifty
    
    Sorry, I’ve missed your point and how it may be relevant to what I wrote.
    
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    November 15, 2023 7:13pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      Your post
      Quite a few times over the years, online, Islamists have encouraged me to ‘do your research’ on Islam, ‘study the religion more’ as though a deeper understanding of it will somehow lift me out of my scepticism
      
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      November 15, 2023 8:46pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Love the way you expose yourself by advocating that Hamas is not a Terrorist organisation.
        
        3 0
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        November 15, 2023 11:06pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    ‘The current meme is to equate Hamas radicals representing Islam. ‘
    Not on Kiwiblog it isnt.
    Most here understand that the only Country who really supports Hamas is Iran and there proxies Yemen and Lebanon whom harbour some more terrorists.
    Every other country, including the West Bank hate Hamas and want them gone.
    
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    November 15, 2023 7:40pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Thanks for summarising Mr Maxwell’s article for us, Swifty. I saw the headline but did not want to give him the click.
  
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  November 15, 2023 7:01pm
  - Swifty
    
    I don’t blame you.
    
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    November 15, 2023 7:14pm
mandk

Agreed. It was a good article.

It seems absurd to me that people can delay registering until election day itself, and still get to vote.

The date for the election was announced on 19 January, so the election itself can have come as a surprise to no one.

Surely it would have been reasonable to require people to register to vote, and provide proof of identity and address, at least one month before the election. This would have given people nearly 8 months to get their arses into gear.
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November 15, 2023 9:26am
Maggie Pie

This question raised it’s head during dinner with friends last nite and drew a blank….

Are there any ‘openly-gay’ MPs in National?

The only ones we could think of were either Labor, Greens, or Te Pati members.
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November 15, 2023 9:42am
- Ghost
  
  Yes, and why does it matter to you?
  
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  November 15, 2023 9:53am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I didn’t say it did, silly!
    It was a friend that asked the question.
    
    So who is it ?
    
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    November 15, 2023 9:59am
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      It was your friend that asked the question, but it was you who decided to repeat the question in public.
      
      Answer is the same in any case – it’s none of your, or your friend’s, or anybody else’s business.
      
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      November 15, 2023 10:15am
      - Maggie Pie
        
        [Mod – you can stop this now]
        
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        November 15, 2023 10:23am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      It is extraordinary that anyone would care. Of all the issues with our MPs, which adults they sleep with is immaterial.
      
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      November 15, 2023 10:20am
      - kowtow
        
        ‘It is extraordinary that anyone would care.’
        
        But that’s the point .
        
        Te media pahti make such a big deal of all all things ‘diverse” .And that has now crept its way into the corporate and public sector world where they seem to want to be seen to be so with it they bend over in order to get so called rainbow ticks.
        
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        November 15, 2023 11:08am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        BY – like it or not, I’m pretty sure this is what millions of people are interested in.
        
        Hence the prevalence of ‘Women’s’ magazines and many other print and online sources which only exist for their ability to discover ‘juicy gossip’ etc on high profile people. There are countless examples.
        Often the interest isn’t in the sex of the person’s partner/lover, it’s WHO the person is.
        
        Just an observation after 50 years or so looking at the garbage available, firstly on many newsagent’s shelves, but these days, more so on websites.
        
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        November 15, 2023 11:10am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Obviously not. If they were ‘openly gay’ then we’d know about it. 😂
  
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  November 15, 2023 11:04am
Jack5

Surprise of the day …

Stuff reports a survey of its own Stuff readers finds they are uncertain about the incoming government’s ability to handle key issues.

That’s before we have a new government.

This is like pre-Yeltsin Pravda surveying its readers on post-Communist government.
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November 15, 2023 10:00am
kevn

Ghost… 70% of labour were/are apparently. A notable difference from others. An auditor would interested. Why?
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November 15, 2023 10:01am
Maggie Pie

THE 3 WISE MEN 😀 😀 😀

https://twitter.com/winstonpeters/status/1724525205543116941

Announcement due any time soon…..
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November 15, 2023 10:06am
- Jack5
  
  As long as they’re not heading for 🐪Gaza!
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:22am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    And what’s with the paperless office?
    
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    November 15, 2023 11:03am
  - kowtow
    
    Washington Post did a recent article on the Hamas terror outrages of 7 Oct .
    backed by the mullahs in tehran the terrorists wanted to strike as deep as possible into Israel , even possibly as far as the so called West Bank , in order to ignite a broader conflict .
    
    The very antithesis of the Christian Christmas message.
    
    And yet across what was formerly considered the free west there are huge anti Israel marches consisting of peopke who back the intent of the terror outrages.
    
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    November 15, 2023 11:16am
    - Flossie
      
      What has Christianity/Christmas to do with this?
      
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      November 15, 2023 12:02pm
      - kowtow
        
        Er , the reference to 3 wise men.
        
        Followed by a camel and a reference to a part of the Holy land .
        
        Need more ?
        
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        November 15, 2023 12:37pm
      - Ghost
        
        Yeah I’m not following either what a post about luxon, Peter’s and Seymour has to do with Hamas
        
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        November 15, 2023 12:42pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Winston smirking, Luxon grinning like a Cheshire cat, Seymour looks constipated……I wonder if their faces are an indication of how negotiations are proceeding? 😂
  
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  November 15, 2023 11:18am
Rich Prick

Stuff is pretty depressing reading today. Is it just me, or are the kiddies churning out “news” articles still really bummed out over the election result?
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November 15, 2023 10:13am
- Kiwiguy
  
  Yes, the media are sour and bitter that their favourite party wasn’t elected, and worse, that they’re not privy to the negotiation details.
  “Jessica then Tova” have been left out in the cold and are most unhappy about it, hence their media articles: they’re trying to stay relevant, and stir up discontent with the new coalition.
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:18am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Kiwi
    If you think of them as overpaid low intellect activists then things start making sense.
    
    If you think of them as news reporters you will be sorely disappointed.
    
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    November 15, 2023 10:57am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Grieving over their new found status of irrelevance perhaps, hence short story fictions like this:
  
  https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/11/14/waiting-for-winston-lingering-for-luxon-inside-the-stakeout/
  
  Problem is you can find heaps of better quality stuff on kindle for a couple of cents.
  
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  November 15, 2023 11:14am
- kowtow
  
  Why bother .
  Every click there is counted by them as support , with advertisers etc
  
  We can help to restore our democracy one click at a time.
  
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  November 15, 2023 11:18am
oldpark

The joke that keeps giving. The waste of space Dom/Stuff overpriced rag are once more clowns who have to eat a truckload of Humble Pie .
Christopher Luxon has shown their extreme far left cub reporters what good management and leadership is all about .
NZs PM in waiting showed the clowns . Luxon was not going to be coerced to make a deal very quickly with the deadline APEC dates approaching by you know who .
Our PM in waiting has made the right call and chose the future and well being of NZ as against a five minute meet and greet at APEC .
Would be so special that the wee cigarette smoker employed by Dom /Stuff just for once would stop interviewing her console and tell the truth instead of justifying her waste of space employment by the $1 dollar “stuff” newspaper.Go Figure .
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November 15, 2023 10:35am
- Inandout
  
  old, San Fran’s homeless and litter must be swept in anticipation of Xi.
  
  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/san-francisco-cleans-up-filthy-streets-as-xi-jinping-visits-from-china/ss-AA1jRAqr
  
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  November 15, 2023 10:41am
  - kowtow
    
    ‘Fire at Homeless Encampment Under Santa Monica Freeway, Closes the Main East West Highway in Los Angeles County for 3 Months’
    
    https://www.smobserved.com/story/2023/11/13/news/fire-at-homeless-encampment-under-santa-monica-freeway-closes-the-main-east-west-highway-in-los-angeles-county-for-3-months/7919.html
    
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    November 15, 2023 11:21am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Inandout – this is a short video highlighting the absurdity.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mBmzmq2kXg
    
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    November 15, 2023 11:22am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  But but but – if Chris doesn’t go to SFO then WE don’t get a junket …
  
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  November 15, 2023 7:04pm
thirteenstars

Suella Braverman’s letter of resignation to Rishi Sunak:

https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1724465401982070914/photo/1

Pretty damning stuff, and she’s right, and probably Britain’s next Tory PM after Sunak loses the election.
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November 15, 2023 10:42am
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  Yes, though unfortunately the UK will have to endure several years of the spineless knee-taking Keir Starmer and the hysterical Angela Rayner before Braverman stands any chance of leading the country.
  
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  November 15, 2023 3:14pm
- MCōs
  
  I’d never heard of Suella Braverman before. The current Conservative government over there seems to have had a revolving door of ministers, and PMs for that matter, since the Brexit vote.
  Now they seem to have run out of ideas and David Cameron is back in the cabinet.
  He hasn’t been an MP since 2016.
  
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  November 15, 2023 4:28pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    Braverman had the most support from party members of all the contenders in the last PM contest. Lost out due to not getting support from enough MPs.
    
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    November 15, 2023 5:54pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Imagine if we had a House of Lords. Labour’s post Jacinda panic could have been assuaged by ….. the return of Hulun!
    
    Aaargh!
    
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    November 15, 2023 7:07pm
- Ghost
  
  It’s that time of the year when politicians quit to go on I’m a celebrity get me out of here. She prolly wants to be on it with Nigel Farage
  
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  November 15, 2023 4:31pm
Yabster

Proud day for me today- Stuff banned me from comments- they did a poll re what the “current” Govt policies around climate change ,cost of living etc made you feel- many expressed anger..

I merely pointed out Stuff hadn’t done similar polls in the past 6 years and Stuff was showing it bias yet again…also how can someone be angry with the Government when it hasn’t formed yet..? the banned is typical of left wingers…

Hello Yabster,

Someone with access to your account has violated our community guidelines. As a result, your account has been banned. You will no longer be able to comment, react or report comments.

If you think this has been done in error, please contact our community team at comments@stuff.co.nz.

Sent by Stuff
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November 15, 2023 11:07am
- Ghost
  
  Welcome to the club.
  
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  November 15, 2023 11:10am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Yabster – don’t even give them the benefit of clicking on their shit. It only gives them oxygen.
  
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  November 15, 2023 11:23am
  - Yabster
    
    Clan I agree- mainly there for the sports as that reporting isn’t too bad- if i could find an alternative (nz sports/news I would)
    
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    November 15, 2023 11:37am
    - kowtow
      
      if you’re a member of your library join pressreader .You pay for it through your rates .
      
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      November 15, 2023 11:52am
- NothingLeft
  
  Stuff, as with most NZ media is only interested in proselytising far-left politics. Yet we are forced to pay for them with our taxes. That needs to stop immediately.
  
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  November 15, 2023 11:32am
- David Garrett
  
  Yabster: An excellent example of why commenting on Stuff is an utter waste of time – I’d be banned in half an hour!!
  
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  November 15, 2023 1:25pm
- miltonF
  
  I was banned from Stuff comments during the height of Covid mass psychosis for suggesting the vaccines won’t work and Covid can’t be “elliminaded”.
  
  I’m assuming the comment fell under their “misinformation” policy. The irony is that I was completely correct, and it was in-fact Stuff that was spreading verified misinformation. Not expecting an apology any time soon.
  
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  November 15, 2023 2:36pm
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    You were obviously banned for your poor spelling 🙂
    
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    November 15, 2023 3:16pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/133292457/lifting-the-lid-on-new-zealands-next-fully-electric-ute
Wallis Dumper wants company to change ute’s silly name…..
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November 15, 2023 11:15am
- Maggie Pie
  
  If I was Wally’s daughter, I’d be wanting to do the same 😀
  
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  November 15, 2023 11:45am
Maggie Pie

One of the girls from tennis just asked if anyone could explain to her like she was 5,
why the three suspects in the death of Baby Ru aren’t being held in custody?

My immediate thort was ethnicity…but I’m no a legal expert.
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November 15, 2023 11:20am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Well you apparently have a good understanding of how the NZ legal system works. Actually, all parts of the system.
  
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  November 15, 2023 11:29am
- cmm
  
  They’re playing the Kahui twins playbook.
  
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  November 15, 2023 12:18pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Precedent had been set.
    
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    November 15, 2023 12:32pm
  - Inandout
    
    The infamous cone of silence, or in US terms, the Fifth Amendment.
    
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    November 15, 2023 12:47pm
  - David Garrett
    
    cmm: Exactly so…. and this “whanau” is playing it note for note…and no-one within this mythical creature “Maoridom” is condemning them…at least not publicly.
    
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    November 15, 2023 1:28pm
    - Ghost
      
      Do Māori need to condemn them? Did anyone publicly condemn that vile mark lundy? David Bain? There are actually protests in favour of Lauren Dickason.
      
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      November 15, 2023 1:34pm
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        Fair point.
        
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        November 15, 2023 3:17pm
Paul Marsden

Anybody here, or know of any persons currently participating in trials of Risankizumab, for the treatment of Active Psoriatic Arthritis (PsA)?
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November 15, 2023 11:54am
Maggie Pie

The Horrid is reporting (paywall) that yet another Chinese property developer has called the Receivers in to sell a failed block of 82 Apartments out West Auckland.

God they build some crap! There’s nothing like an older home on a large site close to the cbd surrounded by beautiful gardens and offering all the amenities in complete privacy.
Imagine what those shoddy looking Apartments are going to be like in 110 years from now 🙁

Just saying.
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November 15, 2023 12:03pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, they are adept at building ghost cities which crumble the first week. I occupy a third of an acre with many trees and consider that my paradise on earth.
  
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  November 15, 2023 12:31pm
  - lifesgood
    
    Houses on a decent bit of land are going to become more and more desirable and, dare I say it, more and more expensive. I go to England often and they build really attractive terrace houses, why can’t we do that here? Most of the new developments I see around Auckland are just straight out ugly and they are ruining previously attractive neighbourhoods.
    
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    November 15, 2023 12:39pm
    - David Garrett
      
      lifesgood: The terrace houses built in NZ – particularly those in Albany, Silverdale and Hobsonville are fucking chicken coops…I’ll stick with my 100 year old villa which has survived numerous earthquakes, and still has its original corrugated iron roof – albeit kept well painted by me.
      
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      November 15, 2023 1:32pm
      - Inandout
        
        DG, interesting you mention the iron roof because our house was built mid 50s and has Lysaght roofing iron, either UK or Aussie made. Unlike modern iron which is zinc coated the original iron was galvanised, heavy gauge, and if kept painted should last indefinitely.
        
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        November 15, 2023 2:23pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Inand: You are quite right: the iron is much heavier gauge than the modern stuff.
        
        Interestingly, I know a house up here in Tonga built around 1910, obviously with old fashioned heavy gauge roofing iron. Although it’s been rusty since I was last living here in 2003, it apparently doesn’t leak…and it rains like fury here!
        
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        November 15, 2023 2:59pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        galvanizing IS zinc coating. Manufacturers can choose what thickness of zinc coating to apply. There isn’t much point to thicker gauge steel under the coating except to deal with people walking on it. the corrugations make it stiff against wind loadings and steel is ridiculously cheap.
        
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        November 15, 2023 3:13pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Sounds fab! Is that on the Remuera Northern Slopes I&O?
    
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    November 15, 2023 12:44pm
    - Inandout
      
      Good God no, far too noisy. I recall as a youngster working for a builder on a house in Victoria Ave. In fill housing was the rage back then but the quality was superb. I shudder when looking at the standard of housing being thrown up now.
      
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      November 15, 2023 12:53pm
  - Ghost
    
    Ghost cities, hmmmmmm. How do we scare the humans if there are only ghosts living in them?
    
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    November 15, 2023 12:49pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

Anne Salmond wants to keep the Gravy Train going.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/bruce-moon-systematically-takes-activist-dame-anne-salmonds-history-apar/?
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November 15, 2023 12:09pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Bruce Moon’s critique is laughably flawed.
  
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  November 15, 2023 1:16pm
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    How so?
    Or is this just a drive-by.
    
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    November 15, 2023 3:32pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    As opposed to your critique of his critique which is extremely well articulated and reasoned?
    
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    November 15, 2023 3:58pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Spill the beans, Mikey. Advance an argument or two. Who knows, you might some engagement.
    
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    November 15, 2023 7:12pm
  - Yabster
    
    a historian vs milkdud- -no contest…
    
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    November 16, 2023 7:41am
cmm

Here is a problem with trains…

Cindy’s train (you know, the service that would be cheaper and more carbon friendly if it was replaced by helicopters) breaks down and now the whole rail system is stuffed because the tracks are blocked.

Buses are much better. If one breaks down then others can just turn on their indicator , make a lane change, and carry on.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-trains-network-grinds-to-halt-cancellations-and-delays-expected/7VZARQIC2NE4FMD7EMHLRTX4YY/
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November 15, 2023 12:44pm
- MCōs
  
  Every day Waka kotahi informs twitter users of accidents/breakdowns on the Auckland motorway system with pictures and warnings of traffic congestion
  Here’s one here from earlier on this afternoon
  https://x.com/wakakotahiaknth/status/1724609001000677771?s=61&t=yFkzCNMWRCaVt1p5eRxUog
  Even at the best of times that m/w can grind to a halt
  
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  November 15, 2023 4:45pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Some folks are getting concerned that AI facial technology might not cope well with Maori and Pasifika faces… those that have darker skin tones –

The MSD report said US government tests in July suggested the Daon AI algorithm worked less well “on people of darker skin tones than on people of lighter skin tones”.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/502445/facial-recognition-government-rolls-out-new-tech-despite-racial-bias-concerns

Sort of makes you wonder how China, Japan and S.Korea seem to be managing OK with their technology.
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November 15, 2023 12:47pm
- Ghost
  
  What about ghost faces?
  
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  November 15, 2023 12:50pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    鬼佬;
    
    They’re catered for….
    
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    November 15, 2023 2:10pm
    - Ghost
      
      Good, because the fingerprint scan on the phones are hell for ghosts
      
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      November 15, 2023 2:28pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        My phone hardly ever recognises my face… Tooooooooo white, I s’pose.
        
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        November 15, 2023 2:39pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Yes, I recall reading a story in the SCMP about police being called to a Seafood Takeaway in Beijing following an armed robbery.
  When the owners provided them with images of the man captured on their CCTV, later that day Police had over 600 suspects in custody.
  
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  November 15, 2023 1:21pm
- Taieri
  
  Some folks are getting concerned that AI facial technology might not cope well with Maori and Pasifika faces
  ————
  
  Surely, there’re provisions in Te Tiriti that can address this sort of discrimination?…
  
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  November 15, 2023 3:48pm
  - Ghost
    
    Perhaps This will help all
    
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    November 15, 2023 3:56pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Makes you wonder how Maoris and Polynesians manage to open their phones
  
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  November 15, 2023 7:14pm
Maggie Pie

Looks like Tamaki Makarau gets what they deserve….

https://twitter.com/1NewsNZ/status/1724593173480009790
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November 15, 2023 2:10pm
cmm

Record migration loss as 44800 Kiwis citizens say bye….

Herald is blaming this on a post covid youngsters going away for OEs. Is that really the whole story?

We have huge numbers of people who come to OE in NZ from Europe etc, so surely any post-covid OE losses should be somewhat balanced?

I’m thinking there’s more to this flow than just OEs.

A colleague of mine was doing some recruiting at UC. He said even the dope heads were getting well paid jobs in Australia. Trying to find grads to take roles in NZ was pretty hard.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/leaving-home-record-net-migration-loss-of-nz-citizens-in-year-to-september/EZL6M3EPJVEXLBEQV5ON2VRXK4/
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November 15, 2023 3:05pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  cmm – Is that really the whole story?
  
  Drop the csv files from this link into a couple of pivots or simply look at the time series (Table 4) in the xlsx, – pre Covid, Covid & post Covid years – I’ll let you reach your own conclusion 🙂
  
  https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/international-migration-september-2023/
  
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  November 15, 2023 4:36pm
Prince

From a 21 month prison starting point this angry, violent woman gets…no detention.
Why does a cultural report showing inbred anger, violence, and lack of control mean she is free to walk amoung us again immediately ? It makes no sense. It may be a reason for her behaviour, but it doesn’t mean she has addressed those reasons and is ‘cured’. What about public safety ?

She’s not the only one to feel ‘disgusted’.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/133294188/woman-disgusted-with-herself-after-biting-and-spitting-on-police-officers
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November 15, 2023 3:21pm
Maggie Pie

White Supremacist gang members pose problems in Christchurch…..

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1724310313497935924
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November 15, 2023 3:41pm
- Ghost
  
  That moment you realise your dress matches the police officer…….
  
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  November 15, 2023 4:28pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Looks very much like the yearly drunktard fest known as the Melbourne Cup. Lots of muffin-tops stuffed into expensive hats and dresses then covered in vomit.
  
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  November 15, 2023 5:24pm
  - Inandout
    
    NZ, watched the oilers get moved on from the Melbourne Cup venue on Sky from Sydney, such fun. The jockey who rode the winner was quite the comic, and happy with it.
    
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    November 15, 2023 6:21pm
Ghost

Reminds me of the Franklin scandal

Lawmakers are worried that national security was compromised after a high-end brothel network targeting military officials and congressmen in the Washington, D.C., area was recently busted.

This week, prosecutors charged three people with running a high-end brothel network in Boston and northern Virginia, whose customers included elected officials, tech executives, lawyers and military personnel.

Article
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November 15, 2023 4:23pm
Ghost

Seymour

He said “a lot of progress” had been made and an agreement was “pretty close”.

Article

Shame he had to make a joke about luxon shaving his head in relation to his cut
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November 15, 2023 4:53pm
Maggie Pie

HDPA gives Winnie a hard-time for lunching at Swashbucklers in Westhaven 😀
Says it’s equivalent to Wellington’s….. ‘Green Parrot’.

I’ve never been there, although my partner recons they do a fab Scampi.
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November 15, 2023 5:04pm
- Paul Marsden
  
  My second home and office 🙂
  
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  November 15, 2023 5:09pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    If you see him there tomorrow Paul can you give him a message to HURRY-THE-FU and stop dicking around!
    The country needs to be up and running FFS.
    My partner was stuck on the motorway earlier for nealy an hour due to a crash at greenlane apparently… and not a cop in sight. He reckoned the place was like Mogadishu during late night shopping 🙁
    
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    November 15, 2023 5:54pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      What are the features of late night shopping in Mogadishu?
      
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      November 15, 2023 6:30pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Have you not seen Watership Down?
        
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        November 15, 2023 7:51pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      “The country needs to be up and running FFS.”
      
      Sure the problems are not being fixed, but at least we don’t have a government making them worse. Honestly, no government for another few weeks makes not much difference.
      
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      November 15, 2023 6:32pm
    - Ghost
      
      Todays problems will still be here for a while, they are extensive and won’t be fixed over night.
      
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      November 15, 2023 6:49pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Looking at the menu it bears no resemblance to the Green Parrot.
  
  https://swashbucklers.co.nz/menu/dining/
  
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  November 15, 2023 6:01pm
  - Inandout
    
    BY, not too dissimilar.
    https://www.greenparrot.co.nz/
    
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    November 15, 2023 6:30pm
  - kevn
    
    BY… It’s no pea pie ‘pud place. Reserve me.
    
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    November 15, 2023 6:39pm
- Scooter
  
  The name’s a bit cringe though and the cutesy meal titles, are the catering to 5 year olds?
  
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  November 15, 2023 9:26pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Must be the top end of town! Even chips at The Grove aren’t 10 bucks 😀
    
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    November 15, 2023 10:36pm
NZer In Exile

We are supposed to believe the current “warmth” is “unprecedented”??? Bullshit!

Vostok ice core records (Antarctica):
https://i0.wp.com/wattsupwiththat.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/VostokTemp0-420000-BP-1699910506.0702.jpg

The red tipped spikes are interglacials (periods of about 10,000 years between glacials aka ice ages). As interglacials get warmer each year (with a few up and down wobbles) so each year in them is generally “the hottest year eva” until the decline into crop-killing cold for around 100,000 years again!!!).

Here’s 4 ice core records (2 from Greenland and two from Antarctica) and a projection based on multiple previous glaciations:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kwgl3s1ud0v1xo2/Interglacial%20overlap%20MAX%20Annotated.jpg?dl=0

Also bookmark this prediction:
“During this modern grand (solar) minimum, one would expect to see a reduction of the average terrestrial temperature by up to 1.0°C, especially, during the periods of solar minima between the cycles 25–26 and 26–27, e.g. in the decade 2031–2043.”
From:
‘Modern Grand Solar Minimum will lead to terrestrial cooling’
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7575229/

Better not ditch those fossil fuels if we don’t want to freeze and starve!!!
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November 15, 2023 5:48pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  “We are supposed to believe the current “warmth” is “unprecedented”???
  
  No credible person has ever claimed that the current mean global temperature is the highest ever recorded on earth. As you say, that is not the case.
  
  However mean global temperatures are increasing at an accelerating rate not experienced in at least 100,000 years. The chart you show says just that.
  
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  November 15, 2023 6:29pm
  - Burtland
    
    i guess the point is the repeated inter-glacial warmings arent anthropomorphic, that theres something bigger than driving your car at play here
    
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    November 15, 2023 9:35pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Benedict it appears you are (probably) accidentally “strawmanning” me.
    
    We are often told by the alarmist complex (media, socialist/green-revolution pushers and career climate grifter scientists) that this or that apparent recent blip (relative to the very old proxy record) in climate movement up or down is “unprecedented”. Those pronouncements from “respected”(by alarmists) bodies (NIWA anyone?) are very easy to find. Those momentary blips (relative to the full climate timescales) mean nothing and prove nothing. Yet they are shouted from the rooftops whenever they momentarily appear to go the way of the climate alarm narrative.
    
    Those charts I posted came from a discussion on a “What’s up with that” website post. Given the time scales of those proxy records there is not the resolution there for you to claim ” mean global temperatures are increasing at an accelerating rate not experienced in at least 100,000 years. The chart you show says just that.” No they don’t.
    
    Secondly we only have reliable recent measurements of the temp of the whole planet for the last approx 40 years courtesy of a satellite that whizzes around the planet scanning the temp of the entire globe. Prior to that we had very patchy and sparse temp stations around the globe for the past approx 200 years. A picnic for “baffle with bullshit” alarmist stat adjusters and the like. One thing that is a statistical no no is to graft actual thermometer temp measurements (including those from satellites) onto proxy records. People like Gavin Schmidt of NASA fame have tried this stunt and have been called out by seasoned climate specialists (as in got their PhDs in the 60s and 70s and have published hundreds of peer reviewed climate papers, and were seen as top of the game until the alarmist smear/cancel machine blackened their names).
    
    I note elsewhere you say that climate alarmism doesn’t even rate in your top 100 life concerns. Good! There is hope for you. Keep investigating this. You will find that just like with the thousands of idiot scientists in NZ who supported idiotic woo in the “Maori Science” debacle, climate science is sadly similarly infested with idiots like this, across the whole field now. I used to be a believer, but after 20 years of looking at this intensively I can now see the whole hypothesis around human produced Co2 heating the planet to hell can only be a total crock, absolutely not worth upending the global economy for.
    
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    November 16, 2023 11:28am
DimChappie

Kāpiti Coast District council has voted for a Maori ward despite 69 per cent of submissions against it. Mayor Janet Holborow cited strong support from young respondents in the survey – clearly some opinions carry more weight with her and her fellow woke councilors.
Thankfully, the National coalition plans to bring back the power to reverse these race based wards through petition. All the councilors who voted for this deserve the sack.
https://tinyurl.com/378y3bxv
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November 15, 2023 6:41pm
- greybeard
  
  KCDC has long been left-leaning, woke, LGBT-etc orientated, wasteful etc.
  Which is strange because most of their rates come from the predominant older, conservative ratepayers who live here.
  
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  November 15, 2023 7:04pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/south-pacific/301009488/outrage-in-the-cook-islands-after-rarotonga-bar-fight-stabbing-incident
OK folks, place your bets on the origin of these ferals.
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November 15, 2023 6:57pm
- DimChappie
  
  I’d say Cook Islanders judging by their surnames:
  https://tinyurl.com/mvktxs8a
  
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  November 15, 2023 7:05pm
- Ghost
  
  N Z Labour Party delegation?
  
  Ginny Andersen and Meka Whaitiri?
  
  6 0
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  November 15, 2023 7:15pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Good to see a cohesive society expressing outrage at boorish behaviour by visitors
  
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  November 15, 2023 7:19pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Have to wonder what it is with booze and some people.
  Everyone we mix with are always such happy drunks.
  
  Just saying.
  
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  November 15, 2023 7:41pm
Swifty

While it’s not stated how or why, apparently financial prudence by our Universities violates Treaty principles.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/301009080/massey-university-staff-tell-academic-board-proposed-cuts-will-have-significant-implications

Do we really think that was in mind when pieces of paper were signed in 1840?

Total and utter horseshit.

You’d have to be fantastically historically ignorant or totally on the make to even consider such a possibility – but here we are, serious ‘academics’ presenting such fiction as fact.
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November 15, 2023 8:13pm
Scooter

Hmm That’s a bit of a Freudian slip, caption under the photo “gang of six”. But in those famous words, “yep yep it is was it is”

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/election-2023-maori-party-s-takutai-kemp-wins-tamaki-makaurau-after-judicial-recount/
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November 15, 2023 8:41pm
Swifty

Miss Vacuous adds to the sum of human knowledge by spouting the most empty, valueless contribution she could muster:

“The only way to find long-term peaceful resolution to difficult and complex conflicts is if you find a way to end the violence and grief in order to give yourself the space to then have those conversations,” Ardern said.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/dame-jacinda-ardern-calls-for-humanity-approach-to-israel-hamas-war-during-harvard-speech/HAHZQ3NTLZCVTFRNUWKXS5GNNI/

FFS.
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November 15, 2023 9:05pm

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