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November 14, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 14 November 2023

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General Debate

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Chuck Bird

I still stand with Israel.
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November 14, 2023 8:05am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Greta Thunberg is going nuts over Gaza. Her latest chant is “no climate justice for occupied lands”. 😳 I have no idea what that means.
  
  https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/11/13/no-climate-justice-on-occupied-land-man-grabs-greta-thunbergs-mic-over-pro-palentinian-cha
  
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  November 14, 2023 8:10am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Greta has no idea what that means. Greta is a social media construct. A puppet created and funded to push a narrative chosen by whoever paid for her creation. Her parents are a pair of awful people who not only permitted this abuse, but actively encouraged it for their own ideological reasons.
    
    As with most artificially created narratives, as time goes by and their actions become increasingly absurd and hysterical, they lose relevance. Thunberg has just about done her dash in the eyes of the majority of the public.
    
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    November 14, 2023 8:14am
  - Matt Long
    
    There was a theory that the Gaza war is a proxy war of the Iranian Ayatollahs, and although there may be truth in that, it’s also a proxy war waged by “progressive” neo Marxists.
    It’s another front, along with climate change, critical race theory, gender theory, decolonisation, BLM, antifa. The same people using the same methods to stir up hate and anger against inferior races or classes.
    And when you see their flags flying over British war memorials, and police afraid to act, except against counter protesters and turning a blind eye to sex abuse by Moslem gangs it’s pretty obvious which side is winning.
    https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/13/uk/suella-braverman-leaves-government-rishi-sunak-gbr-intl/index.html
    
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    November 14, 2023 8:32am
    - rangitoto
      
      Hamas main goal was to scuttle any accord between Israel and Saudi Arabia and hopefully kick off a widespread middle east war.
      
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      November 14, 2023 9:47am
  - Taieri
    
    I have no idea what that means
    —————–
    
    And neither does Greta…
    
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    November 14, 2023 8:40am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Land rights for gay whales!
      
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      November 14, 2023 9:30am
  - Inandout
    
    BY, Greta is the ‘Simple Minds’ of protests, a one hit wonder.
    
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    November 14, 2023 8:40am
    - plc
      
      Harsh….
      
      Promised You A Miracle
      Glittering Prize
      Someone Somewhere in the Summertime
      
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      November 14, 2023 10:11am
      - Inandout
        
        pic, just a single no 1, but a good one.
        
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        November 14, 2023 11:41am
    - NothingLeft
      
      one hit wonder? I’ll have you know:
      60million album sales. 24 top 40 singles on the UK Singles Chart, including eight top 10 and one number one, and 26 albums on the UK Albums Chart,[5] including 22 top 40 albums, 12 top 10 albums and five number one albums.
      
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      November 14, 2023 2:42pm
    - Ghost
      
      Well she has a snail named after her in NZ…….
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opacuincola_gretathunbergae
      
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      November 14, 2023 2:47pm
  - David Garrett
    
    Bene: Perhaps Little Greta thinks they can achieve climate change that corresponds with national borders?
    
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    November 14, 2023 8:53am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Greta’s brain is fogged up with all of that CO2 she can see.
    
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    November 14, 2023 9:15am
  - Deane Jessep
    
    We’re now in the word soup phase of identitarian politics. It’s not enough to virtue signal one issue at a time, there’s bonus virtue points available if you can squeeze just a little more juice out of every bit of attention. Here’s one from yesterday:
    https://twitter.com/Israel/status/1723971340825186754?t=xpbVRrHOcGnydEm5rt-t1w&s=19
    
    Riding in on a rainbow tank, in the name of love! 🌈 💣
    
    Shame it’s not even true (3 years ago):
    https://www.972mag.com/lgbtq-palestinians-joint-list/
    
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    November 14, 2023 9:19am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Abraham the patriarch of the Jewish people and Moses & Elijah their greatest prophets would be disgusted by that.
      
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      November 14, 2023 10:20am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Greta Thunberg is going nuts over Gaza. Her latest chant is “no climate justice for occupied lands”. 😳 I have no idea what that means.
    
    [1] Greta was nuts long long before Gaza.
    [2] Chant’s are all she has. She is a modern human wind up toy with pre-programmed chants.
    [3] “no climate justice for occupied lands”.
    
    If climate justice means going completely green, woke, and no CO2, does that mean that occupied lands do not have to reach CO2 zero? Do not have to be green and woke.
    
    I doubt if Greta has a functioning rational logic mind left. It is as if someone mounted and egg beater in her head and let it run for days, until her brain was pureed. Her utterances are pure word soup salad. She makes the characters in “Alice In Wonderland” look like wise old sages by comparison.
    
    Perhaps someone could write a new children’s book on the dangers of wokeism. “Greta in Cuckoo Land”.
    
    Or perhaps “Hansard and Greta”, the true story of a mad woman who took over NZ politics and tried to push fake green agendas.
    
    Even parliament debates featuring Ardern and Co, make “Alice in Wonderland” look sane.
    
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    November 14, 2023 9:26am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  What sensible person doesn’t?
  
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  November 14, 2023 8:17am
- rockape
  
  It’s been a long time between crusades.
  
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  November 14, 2023 9:00am
- imalwaysright
  
  Chuck
  Typing ‘I still stand with Israel ‘ is equivalent to typing ‘I still stand with Israel ‘.
  I did it twice and it didn’t change anything .
  
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  November 14, 2023 9:39am
  - Ghost
    
    Yeah it’s as stupid as people who changed their social media to the ukraine flag. Means nothing, appeases some weird need in people I guess.
    
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    November 14, 2023 7:10pm
- kiwikidsnz
  
  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-14/israel-gaza-live-updates-hamas-truce-us-humanitarian-pauses/103101294
  
  UN rapporteur says Israel does not have right to wage war under international laws
  
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  November 14, 2023 4:36pm
- kiwikidsnz
  
  https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/australians-are-evenly-divided-on-whether-israel-should-withdraw-their-armed-forces-from-gaza-immediately-or-not?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=MRU%2014th%20November%202023&utm_content=MRU%2014th%20November%202023+CID_edabd3e570ae571d52a5ed1b8a821ce2&utm_source=Market%20Research%20Update&utm_term=Read%20Full%20Article
  
  Now 51% of Australians say the Israeli army should withdraw their armed forces from Gaza immediately, while 49% say they should not, according to a special Roy Morgan Snap SMS survey conducted with a cross-section of 1,650 Australians aged 18+ from Thursday November 9 – Monday November 12, 2023. They were asked: “Turning to the current conflict in the Middle East between Israel and Hamas in Gaza. In your opinion should the Israeli army withdraw their armed forces from Gaza immediately or not?”
  
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  November 14, 2023 6:49pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    I’m not sure the Jewish American girl who was raped, murdered and then paraded around Gaza cares what Australians think. Nor the baby who was put in the Oven.
    Israel opens the Border between north and south 4-5 hours a day. Tens of thousands are able to leave-if they can get past being shot at by Hamas
    But dont worry.
    Its almost over in the North.
    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/11/israel-is-winning.php
    Interesting viewpoint in the article such as this:
    ‘If there is a cease fire, another tenuous “peace,” ongoing yammering about a two-state solution that the Palestinians have rejected over and over again, the cycle of violence will continue. The only thing that will stop it is a victory by Israel so crushing that Palestinians acknowledge they have been beaten, lay down their arms, and repudiate their leaders.’
    History, unfortunately, supports this view.
    
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    November 14, 2023 8:02pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Framing it as an “Israel-Hamas” and asking questions of only what the Israelis should do is pathetic gaslighting IMO.
    
    I wonder what percentage of Australians would reply Yes to the question “Is it OK for Hamas to enter Israel illegally and kill, torture, maim, rape and kidnap hundreds of Jews?”
    
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    November 14, 2023 10:35pm
Maggie Pie

Can only assume NewstalkZB must have chosen a…. ‘Stock-Photo’ ?

https://twitter.com/NewstalkZB/status/1724131764707430892

🙁 🙁 🙁
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November 14, 2023 8:07am
- RockyJ
  
  Agree. And the report on this example stated how wide spread this is for New Zealand children. Not children in Aotearoa, thankfully
  
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  November 14, 2023 8:12am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    It’s the poor SOCKs in Aotearoa that are under attack and live in constant fear.
    
    You only have to look at every photo (other than the first one the whanau put out, along with their BS story that he choked on the wet wipes they shoved down his lifeless throat) of Ruthless-Empire Souljah Reign Rhind Ahipene-Wall to see the fear in his eyes.
    
    He never knew where the next smack was coming from, or when, but the poor little bugger knew 100% that it was coming, and soon. Despicable gutless bastards.
    
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    November 14, 2023 9:37am
    - DimChappie
      
      What’s a SOCK? I note police are seeking a hard drive from the CCTV unit at the house. What kind of households in Taita require internal CCTV? Did they store valuables there or was there other illegal activity, besides child beating?
      
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      November 14, 2023 5:52pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Some other [fill in yourself]’s kid
        
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        November 14, 2023 6:49pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Whoever picked it should be stood down with loss of wages.
  There are no competent journalists in NZ. Everything is narrative control with associated media for ‘effect’. But like the vast majority of PR and marketing, eventually people see through it and the narrative controllers have to ratchet their nonsense to an even more unbelievable and hysterical level.
  
  We’re witnessing the slow death of mainstream journalism which is becoming little more than another form of entertainment.
  
  The book ‘Amusing Ourselves to Death’ was very prescient. An excellent read.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusing_Ourselves_to_Death
  
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  November 14, 2023 8:21am
  - mawm
    
    The person who chose it did the job he/she was supposed to do with the subliminal message that it was a white child who had been so severely neglected.
    
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    November 14, 2023 9:42am
  - Paulus
    
    Am I correct in that the current Government has extended the Media Propaganda Fund until 2026 ?
    
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    November 14, 2023 10:40am
    - Don Beckett
      
      If so, the incoming govt. should scrap it.
      
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      November 14, 2023 11:50am
    - NothingLeft
      
      The propaganda fund is less significant than the doubling of mostly pointless govt advertising to $125million a year under Labour. That amounts to almost 10x as much lollies handed out to their appropriately obsequious mates in the media and is the true source of far left ‘narrative control’ (by far left govt and media buyers in public service) of media.
      
      Who pays the piper calls the tune.
      
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      November 14, 2023 2:45pm
- Vinicius
  
  I found that photo of the boy on this UK legal website posted 23 July 2023.
  
  https://www.nelsonslaw.co.uk/the-child-support-collection-domestic-abuse-act-2023/
  
  It is probably a stock image. Isn’t it good practice to state how the image was sourced and to credit the source? But hey the NZ media are lazy.
  
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  November 14, 2023 8:23am
  - bennerg
    
    And:
    
    https://cafemom.com/lifestyle/mil-hit-our-autistic-son-discipline
    https://www.anandacare.in/is-depression-only-a-figment-of-imagination-or-reality
    
    and the source at Adobe with 5 variations:
    
    https://stock.adobe.com/bg/images/cute-blond-preschool-boy-sitting-on-the-floor-with-pet-dog-punished-for-mischief/561917721
    
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    November 14, 2023 9:18am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    And pay royalties for image use?
    
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    November 14, 2023 9:32am
- mandk
  
  It’s cos we all know that only wicked white colonialists do that to their kiddies.
  
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  November 14, 2023 8:25am
  - kowtow
    
    Davidperson and Swarbrick.
    
    They support “decolonisers” who murder babies and children and then dress it up as “resistance” , “solidarity” or some such.
    
    And te media pahti let them get away with that.
    
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    November 14, 2023 8:51am
- artemisia
  
  Nothing to be read in a whanau hui set up by Oranga Tamariki.
  
  I cried.
  
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  November 14, 2023 8:27am
- plc
  
  Was my first reaction on reading the story.
  
  And this is the key part of the problem….not acknowledging the elephant in the room.
  
  The Maori elite are absolutely without any semblance of character in relation to this issue. They should be using their privileged position to say that these are our children and this is not ok!
  
  Jeez, they could even spend some of the treaty settlement and koha consultancy to actively implement a solution – because as we continually hear Maori have a special bond with their tamariki.
  
  In fact it is all bullshit and is a disgrace to their identity as a people. In the cold hard light of day they are massively overrepresented in statistics tracking “killing or injuring children”.
  
  That they seem willing to let it endure shows that all their platitudes are weasel words.
  
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  November 14, 2023 8:39am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yes but as I commented a couple of days ago, the prevailing narrative within the Maori elite is that violence towards children and women is a result of colonisation. If New Zealand can be ‘de-colonised’, the violence will stop.
    
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    November 14, 2023 10:11am
    - Jack5
      
      How do the Maori elite get their heads around Taranaki Maori brutal colonisation of the Chatham Islands?
      
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      November 14, 2023 10:22am
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      That’s because they are ignorant of their actual history and culture even as they cherry pick and exalt it.
      But the old time Maori knew.
      There is a placename ‘Ohinekopiri’ (the virgin maiden) which relates to the warfare which gave rise to the name of the Ngai Te Rangi of the Bay of Plenty.
      The daughter of another tribe’s chief was violently assaulted and “died in defence of her honour” – hence the placename – and her body was hidden in a kumara pit. An ancestor of the modern tribe, called Rangihouhiri, died in the fighting this caused, hence the tribal name.
      
      This and other stories make it clear that violence, rape, slavery and all the worst parts of human nature was present amongst traditional Maori.
      As it was part of ALL cultures at some time or another. It shouldn’t be a surprise.
      The hard to believe part would be if it were not!
      
      Pretending that Maori are ubermensch and more spiritual and moral than other races is patronising and simply untrue.
      
      When some of the first missionaries landed on the north side of what is now Raglan harbour (Te Horea), they saw children kicking around an object for fun. it turned out to be a woman’s head. The missionaries found the adults gathered around a hangi pit, so they buried the head only as the body was to be consumed.
      Similarily a story recalls how a slave woman was asked to start an earth oven since a notable visitor was coming, and she realised once done that she was to be the sweet meat for the welcome feast.
      Many stories like this, and early explorers also commented on the Maori practice of infanticide – although details are sparse, as the English chose not to record certain types of horrors (e.g, sexual assaults and child killing are not explored in detail). Paul Moon has written on the killing of girl children by smothering or pressing into the newborn’s skull, alongside his writing on the subject of cannibalism.
      
      These days such things are ignored, downplayed and even claimed to be exaggerated or not happened. It is about as credible as the idea Maori were OK with gender fluidity and rainbow stuff. Any look at the carvings of tupuna will make it clear, as per their culture, that gender and gender roles were very defined and important.
      Twisting the facts as part of the myth of traditional Maori wonderfulness & progressiveness is a game that does nobody any real good.
      
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      November 14, 2023 12:01pm
- Scooter
  
  It just shows you how the “whanau” don’t give a whuck and they know there are little repercussions that they even take the poor child with them. They know they won’t be held to account. We need to start publishing photos of these scum, “Sunlight is the best disinfectant”
  
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  November 14, 2023 9:15am
- Raphael
  
  probably AI generated as well.
  
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  November 14, 2023 9:30am
RockyJ

We were discussing Cultural Impact Assessments last night. Someone gave an example of a property developer who stumped up $35,000 for a standard copy and paste report generated off a word processor saying there were no Maori cultural restrictions on a proposed development. It was pointed out that there is no data being kept on the scale and overall cost to the nation of this nice little earner.

Does anyone know of a source of information on the NZ-wide scale of this industry? It impresses me as a mafia protection racket.
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November 14, 2023 8:09am
- Colville
  
  I dont know about you but I would pay the $35K in a heartbeat for a clean slate and fast and easy pathway thru Council..
  
  Far better than having a hapu that wont talk to the developer, wont meet, wont tell Council they wont meet or why… so it spirals the drain while the developer goes broke….!!
  
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  November 14, 2023 8:50am
  - David Garrett
    
    Colville: So you are effectively saying it is easier to pay protection money and be allowed to do business?
    
    I understand that sentiment – particularly since I have a client who has been fucked around endlessly by the Council – which is another protection racket which charges whatever they like. But that is a dangerous slope to start down.
    
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    November 14, 2023 10:06am
    - Colville
      
      DG.
      Its just a cost.
      Here is Hawkes Bay there is a large development ($50Mil+) owned by an international that has been sitting for 5+ years because of exactly what I describe.
      You think they wouldnt have written the chq in a heartbeat if they could have saved that time?
      (tho the land has probably doubled in value in that time)
      
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      November 14, 2023 11:31am
    - Ghost
      
      There was a new shopping development down here. During all the land work there had to be an archaeologist monitoring it for Māori Artifacts. Thank god they never found any or I doubt the development would have completed the first stage.
      
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      November 14, 2023 11:37am
- artemisia
  
  One of the cultural reports for the courts mentioned in the media recently was 26 pages long. I doubt much of it was typed in ab initio.
  
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  November 14, 2023 9:12am
  - David Garrett
    
    Arte: Forgive me Sir/Madam, but if you are going to use Latin expressions you should be sure to use the right one. Ab initio means “from the outset”.
    
    I’m sure what you mean is “original content” as opposed to boilerplate/precedent. The nearest Latin phrase for that is probably de novo meaning to consider a matter afresh, but that isn’t really appropriate either.
    
    With Love,
    
    KB’s English language Nazi
    
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    November 14, 2023 10:13am
    - artemisia
      
      From the beginning is what I meant. Like not cut and paste.
      
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      November 14, 2023 10:34am
- NothingLeft
  
  And nobody will ever read it. Absolutely useless bureaucratic corrupt brown-mailing overhead.
  
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  November 14, 2023 9:27am
- ISeeRed
  
  How dare you! International survey after international survey show New Zealand is the least corrupt country in the world!
  
  Aotearoa on the other hand…
  
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  November 14, 2023 2:58pm
Opie

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/crime/christchurch-man-pleads-guilty-to-significant-child-abuse-burns-boy-s-foot-with-cigarette-lighter/

Why does the article show a file photo of a white kid?

There is no way this is a white farno.

The first step to fixing something is admitting there is a problem. Will any prominent Maori politicians condemn this? Or too busy hating jews and women to care about nzs real issues?

Yet another case of maori kids getting a shit life but the way to fix it is to do more things their way. Right.
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November 14, 2023 8:10am
- Ghost
  
  Well show evidence it isn’t a white kid. Child abuse strangely child abuse doesn’t know ethnic groups and it happens in all, yet people here always jump to it must be a brown kid.
  
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  November 14, 2023 8:30am
  - wsk12345
    
    I think the clue was in the “whanau hui”. Not sure what that is but not sure why a white person would have one.
    
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    November 14, 2023 8:34am
    - Ghost
      
      That’s what it’s called for Oranga Tamariki call it for everyone.
      
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      November 14, 2023 8:37am
      - plc
        
        How do you know that? That is purely assumption on your part.
        
        If we are making assumptions then I am happy to assume that “It’s always them, Boo-Boo”.
        
        In AI it’s called predictive learning.
        
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        November 14, 2023 8:42am
      - Ghost
        
        Because my white neighbour had his child uplifted when it was born, returned a year latter and Oranga Tamariki still visit his home weekly
        
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        November 14, 2023 8:50am
      - wsk12345
        
        Ghost – is that what a whanauhui is? When they uplift a child?
        
        I mean if they came to uplift mine they wouldn’t succeed speaking that language so it’s not unreasonable to think that for white kids they use English surely?
        
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        November 14, 2023 9:02am
      - Ghost
        
        No, it’s the constant meetings between him and his white partner and family they went through to get the baby back.
        
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        November 14, 2023 9:07am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        I have no idea what that means. I have a rough idea what it’s meant to mean, but I’m not going to make any attempt to find out the literal meaning of the name.
        The same applies to all the name changes being forced on us. Nonsensical, divisive and a waste of time and money. Whoever was responsible for this policy should be exposed and sacked for stupidity and wasting taxpayer money.
        
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        November 14, 2023 9:10am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Yep..
        
        It’s just the re-indigenised name for a Family Group Conference.
        
        Just as likely to be for a drug-addled pakeha family as a Maori whanau.
        
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        November 14, 2023 9:34am
      - MCōs
        
        Whanau = family
        Hui = meeting
        
        You must be awfully stubborn not to figure that out
        
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        November 14, 2023 9:42am
      - Opie
        
        Mcos. You could also say it in Spanish, but I have no interest in learning that either.
        
        Actually, I would rather learn Spanish than Maori. At least you can use it somewhere
        
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        November 14, 2023 10:27am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        MCōs – you are 100% correct. Once I realise I’m being deliberately manipulated or coerced into taking a position on something, I do tend to become very stubborn and back up like a grumpy donkey.
        
        I refuse to be led by the nose by morons who think they know better than everyone else. If you have an idea that you think is going to make things better for society, tell me what you’re planning and why and if it makes sense I’ll get fully on board.
        
        I had been quietly assimilating the Maori language for quite some time. I used it reasonably often in social discourse.
        
        Now I’m going out of my way to never use it at all. The law of unintended, but highly predictable consequences strikes again I guess.
        
        You possibly know my position on the covid fiasco and the gaslighting, lies and manipulation used to force compliance. That’s me in a nutshell.
        
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        November 14, 2023 10:38am
      - Ghost
        
        It’s an old article from 2015, but here are the faces of some of our countries murdered children
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/74207543/child-homicide-in-new-zealand-how-do-the-numbers-compare-internationally
        
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        November 14, 2023 10:56am
      - rouppe
        
        That’s pretty culturally insensitive.
        
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        November 14, 2023 11:29am
      - leoj
        
        MCos:
        
        Last time I checked it’s till a free country. If I don’t want to learn maori, then I don’t want to learn it.
        
        If I have to translate it you are wasting my time and yours!
        
        If you want to use it, go right ahead. Just don’t expect me to. I have a language that 99.999% of people understand. If you wish to communicate with me, use english. Thank you.
        
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        November 14, 2023 3:54pm
  - Opie
    
    The first clue is a farno hooey.
    
    The second clue is the file photo of a white kid used elsewhere.
    
    The third clue ìs name suppression.
    
    If this was whitey it would be stated everywhere and marama would be along to condemn all white males.
    
    Ghost – I’ll bet you a mortgage free $750k home it’s maoris. Prepared to take that bet?
    
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    November 14, 2023 9:23am
  - Swifty
    
    Everything is about bloody race in New Zealand at the moment.
    
    I am just so sick of it.
    
    Honestly, there are times I think we should just stop talking about it. Refuse to engage on it and talk about New Zealanders only.
    
    There are people who desperately want to divide us all by race and assess everything through a racial lens. I think we should refuse to follow suit and not only that we should despise and openly ridicule and humiliate those who do try to divide us so.
    
    By not resisting we are playing into their hands.
    
    Bring on the referendum!
    
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    November 14, 2023 9:42am
    - Ghost
      
      Yeah. It’s bloody sad, it’s been going on for too long but become awful under Ardern.
      
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      November 14, 2023 10:41am
  - artemisia
    
    You are quite right Ghost. But when Maori words are used there is a definite nudge going on even if incorrect. Like if ‘tamariki’ is always used in this context it is quite likely many will make an assumption.
    
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    November 14, 2023 10:00am
    - Ghost
      
      Yeah, and the current government has caused this, even in their correspondence it starts off in Maori
      
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      November 14, 2023 10:32am
BarryB

EV vehicle fires.

A couple of weeks ago there was a fire in the car park at the Luton airport. 1200 cars lost and the car park building collapsed.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-67077996

The same day a Tesla agency in France lost all their stock to fire.
https://www.anarchistfederation.net/chignin-savoie-france-tesla-barbecue/
(The source of the report might provide a clue)
Again same day a fire at Glasgow airport.
https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/scottish-news/23805852.glasgow-airport-taxi-burst-flames-999-crews-scramble-scene/

Now there is argument about the start of the Luton fire – it may have been an EV or a Hybrid or even a standard diesel.
The Paris fire could have been started by arsonists on a cold night…….
But the emerging reality is that if EVs get involved in a fire that they cant be put out. So when cars are close together – like a multistory car park or even on street level parking – if EVs catch fire then all hell will break loose.
The Australian Transport authority has issued a warning to ferries and shippers – Evs should be parked in a specific area ( I guess so they can be pushed overboard if the burst into flames) and the extra weight needs to be considered when loading EVs.
No wonder insurance premiums are going up…………..
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November 14, 2023 8:10am
- Master Mariner
  
  https://splash247.com/how-one-handheld-radio-ripped-a-ships-bridge-apart/
  
  https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ocean-shippers-playing-catch-up-electric-vehicle-fire-risk-2023-07-27/
  
  “”I see no quick solution,” Frazee said.
  
  The International Maritime Organization, which sets regulations for safety at sea, plans to evaluate new measures next year for ships transporting EVs in light of the growing number of fires on cargo ships, a spokesperson told Reuters.”
  
  Ok a few tips,
  Never charge an Battery tool inside,
  Never charge a EV inside your Garage
  Never charge your E Bike inside.
  
  How is Kiwi Rail , 2 new Hybrid ( Battery + Fuel) going to carry EV’s accross Cook Straight ?
  The insurers are / Regulators are seriously looking at Banning them on RORO ( Roll on/ Roll Off) full stop and probably within the next 12-18 months.
  
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  November 14, 2023 9:05am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Master, you can add top those tips.
    
    [1] Only use tools / batteries where each individual battery cell is controlled/managed. Difficult to find out, so if in doubt don’t use. Some cheap battery packs charge batteries in pairs.
    
    [2] Avoid buying replacement Lithium batteries on Trademe or elsewhere. Buy them, or get them refitted through a reputable NZ firm, e.g. Battery Masta, Simpower etc If something goes wrong you can hold them to account.
    
    There is a huge market for selling cheap (fake) Lithium Ion batteries, especially the green coloured Panasonic 18650, which is a popular battery. There are two cons to avoid. (a) Panasonic knock offs that have the outside label but inside are something else. (b) Second hand batteries presented as new. Many cheap batteries online are second hand.
    
    I have purchased Li-Ion cells online and through Trademe and testing revealed they were used, and some even had small scorch marks around the top seals indicating hot gas had escaped during overcharging.
    
    [3] Never leave Li-Ion battery charging unattended.
    
    [4] Take precautions with Li-Ion batteries even if not being charged. Store then in a cool environment and never leave in hot or direct sunlight.
    
    I know personally of a number of fires in NZ started by Li-Ion batteries or battery packs, some in storage i.e. not being charged or even in a charger.
    
    [5] Wherever possible use Lithium Iron Phosphate not Lithium Ion. In enclosed spaces, especially in the home, consider using Sealed Lead Acid. While heavier, they tend to fail “open circuit”, whereas Lithium Ion tends to fail “short circuit”.
    
    Lithium Ion batteries become incendiary devices if damaged, dropped, crushed, overheated or overcharged.
    
    Lithium Iron Phosphate only become incendiary devices if overcharged.
    
    [6] Lithium Iron Phosphate ‘drop in’ replacements for Sealed Lead Acid have complex electronics to prevent overcharging, although quality of these vary also. Buy a good brand, avoid cheap.
    
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    November 14, 2023 9:55am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I have De Walt tools. One has a 54 volt battery that recognises 18/20 volt tools. Very clever. It will not overcharge with the De Walt charger, it just stops with a non blinking red light when charged.
      At work quite often left batteries on the charger overnight (De Walt again)
      
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      November 14, 2023 11:19am
      - Master Mariner
        
        Yep all my tool are Dewalt of 18v , 6 amp hour.
        Had 3 failed. Bloody expensive too.
        I dont even charge inside, only outside.
        Jackrabbit, Great info. Thanks.
        
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        November 14, 2023 1:56pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @ M Mariner.
        At my then work we never had a battery fire. They wear out of course. Many batteries taken to bits and replaced the internal batteries that fail. It only takes one to fail and the others are fine.
        5 drills, 3 drivers, 1 cutoff saw (skillsaw as we know it), 1 reciprocating saw, 1 jigsaw, 2 led torches. I dunno what else. 4 chargers that never missed a beat even overnight.
        Never ever had a fire. Lucky I guess.
        
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        November 14, 2023 4:38pm
    - Master Mariner
      
      Great information, Thanks.
      
      5 0
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      November 14, 2023 2:04pm
  - nz_aj
    
    The new 2025 ferries are themselves hybrid, lots of batteries on board. I guess they’ll use those.
    
    6 1
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    November 14, 2023 10:16am
- Raphael
  
  my better half recently did a first aid course. She was told that they must treat a car accident involving an EV the same as if it were downed power lines (i.e. go nowhere near it, and get the Fire Department there fast)
  
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  November 14, 2023 9:33am
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Have EV insurance rates shot up here in NZ yet? If not, why not?
  What about panelbeating costs? I gather that in the UK, damaged EVs must be stored well away from anything valuable, which makes them a real pain for panelbeaters.
  How did anybody ever get the idea that these things are ‘green’?
  
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  November 14, 2023 11:22am
  - Master Mariner
    
    That these things are Green,
    
    Far from it,
    
    Would anyone seriously strap there kids in a car seat in the back ?
    
    I would not.
    
    12 0
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    November 14, 2023 2:01pm
slightlyrighty

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301007984/tova-obrien-christopher-luxons-inexperience-costs-him-international-power-play

Tova does see this through a particular lens…..

However, here is how I see it. Winston would have used the upcoming APEC meeting as a negotiating tool and deadline to try to force through a deal that was more advantageous to him, thinking that Luxon would roll over and take the deal in order to get to APEC.

Luxon isn’t having it. He has his priorities and the first one is to get a stable government for this country. He won’t be pressured into it, and now Winston knows it.

Winston is used to dealing with politicians. Luxon isn’t a career politician and in this case, it’s a strength. Winston is flummoxed right now…..
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November 14, 2023 8:13am
- Vinicius
  
  HDPA was rabbitting on about this last night as well. Similar talking points to Tova. The media always betray Peters as some sort of political svengali. He isn’t that he is an obfuscating wheeler dealer and always has been.
  
  Luxon would have participated in long running mergers and acquisitions negotiations that can take months. Surely he knows when to hold em and when to fold em. He shouldn’t be the PM-Elect if he doesn’t.
  
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  November 14, 2023 8:31am
  - plc
    
    Yep, Tova portrays him as Otto Van Bismarck when based on his actions of 30+ years in fact he is just a thin-skinned, vindictive chancer continually craving what he calls “respect”.
    
    He is the greatest advertisement against MMP as a form of government IMO.
    
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    November 14, 2023 8:46am
    - Jack5
      
      Terror-Tova is “grooming” Peters, and she may soon have him purring.
      
      How are the negotiations going for the “Indo-Pacific Economic Framework for Prosperity”, which apparently the US wanted wrapped up before APEC.
      
      https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2023-11-09/race-to-finish-indo-pacific-trade-deals-hit-snags-ahead-of-apec-summit
      
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      November 14, 2023 10:12am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Luxon would not have anticipated NZF and Act ganging up. I would hope we get a referendum on the Maori seats. We could at the same time lower the minimum percentage for a party down to 3.5 or 4% which would allow the Maori party to get in but high enough to stop most other small parties from getting in.
    
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    November 14, 2023 8:57am
    - plc
      
      I’m pretty sure he would – a united front is their key negotiating strength.
      
      You wouldn’t need to be Einstein to realise that if I swallow personal antipathy then my negotiating hand is strengthened.
      
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      November 14, 2023 9:04am
    - septic skeptic
      
      IMO 4% has the potential to get a number of single issue fringe groups into a king maker role.
      
      3 1
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      November 14, 2023 10:15am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        Have you looked at the percentages at the last election? TOP was highest behind the Maori Party as 2.22?
        
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        November 14, 2023 11:47am
      - septic skeptic
        
        What you say is true for this last election. Colin Craig got 4.1% in 2014. The lower the threshold the more likely people are to support the minors as their vote is less likely wasted. Result, a dog being wagged by two or three tails.
        
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        November 14, 2023 12:33pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Yes, HDA spoke absolute crap last night, she suggested Luxon and Nats never met Peters in the three weeks before the final count, that was utter rubbish, unless Luxon was lying several times during that three weeks, I note Hosking was spouting similar crap yesterday to.
    
    HDA said there was a meeting between Willis and Jones, she asked her is it true there was a long loud angry argument, she asked and Willis said no, not true, where is this shit coming from?
    
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    November 14, 2023 12:27pm
- kiwikidsnz
  
  Tova’s inexperience is the only one on display, along with her blatant trolling for $tuffs clickbait.
  
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  November 14, 2023 8:33am
  - Colville
    
    With Tova on board…Stuffed days are limited.
    
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    November 14, 2023 8:51am
  - nathie
    
    Yep didn’t click on that story and don’t give a stuff what nonsense Tova dreams up!
    
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    November 14, 2023 9:00am
  - ecco
    
    Will be interested to see if Tova gets Kate Hawkesby’s 5am newstalkzb slot. Those hours are brutal.
    
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    November 14, 2023 10:09am
- Notsofast
  
  Luxon thought he could laugh at Winston for raising bathrooms as the issue his voters raised all over the country, but of course it was not bathrooms, it was changing rooms. I have no idea if this is a sticking point, but the well documented absurdity of autogynephiles like Lia Thomas humiliating and laughing at young women, and forcing them to change twice a day in a broom cupboard is not so funny. Nicola Willis endorsed her leader, which was completely unhelpful.
  
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  November 14, 2023 8:57am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Bath rooms have not been sticking points, it’s foreign buyer tax, and bizarrely Peters wants the money from tax on climate change
    
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    November 14, 2023 12:30pm
- Nickc2
  
  Hey KBers, I’m at a loss here.
  What’s Winston’s mob got their knickers in a knot for over the home purchase tax?
  Any help would be appreciated!
  
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  November 14, 2023 9:21am
  - RoboRob
    
    I have scratched my head over this one too. I would have thought NZFs anti immigration stance would have fit will with taxing foreign buyers on house purchases.
    
    My conclusion here is one of
    
    a) He doesnt really have a problem but he is using it to push National into giving hm something else
    
    or
    
    b) The media continue to not know WTF they are talking about and there is no problem.
    
    Both seem possible to me 🙂
    
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    November 14, 2023 9:47am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Yes it’s ridiculous!
    We should welcome rich Chinese house buyers, not vilify them.
    
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    November 14, 2023 9:49am
  - SoloView
    
    @ Nickc2
    The rules were changed in 2018 when NZF were part of the government.
    
    In general terms “foreigners” can not buy existing residential property in NZ
    
    The following link provides some info.
    https://www.pittandmoore.co.nz/publications/update-ban-on-foreign-buyers-purchasing-homes-in-new-zealand/
    
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    November 14, 2023 12:04pm
    - Nickc2
      
      TKS.
      Peters needs to learn that unlike himself, time moves on and more importantly, if one wants tax cuts, the money needs to come from somewhere. If it’s from the sale of existing homes, then so be it eh?
      
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      November 14, 2023 3:36pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Because it’s to foreigners, they say it will force up house prices for first home buyers, good luck finding a first home buyer with 2 mill, if it will be enough to force up prices, then the tax Willis suggested would have to be right, no do sure Peters is reading this right
    
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    November 14, 2023 12:33pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I am quite happy that Chris Luxon has put the Country and Govt ahead of APEC, and so he should. There is another APEC next year. Time for stable Govt and try to start cleaning up Labour’s mess. If negotiations take another 3 weeks, so what?
  IMP Luxon may not be a Leader, but he is doing the Managing job well. I have criticised him harshly, but here, putting the Country first I congratulate him.
  Good job.
  
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  November 14, 2023 9:43am
  - RoboRob
    
    100% and lets face it these conferences are mostly just excuses for some foreign travel and slap up meals. The read work is done by the officials behind the scenes.
    
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    November 14, 2023 9:49am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    He is leading if he is saying no to Mr 6%
    
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    November 14, 2023 12:35pm
- Handyman
  
  Tova still has the Ardern mindset.
  —Sacrifice everything for a photo op with “other” world leaders.—
  
  How refreshing it is to have adults in charge now.
  
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  November 14, 2023 10:50am
  - Paulus
    
    Well Tova and Dame Jacinda did once flat together so will know each others secrets well !
    
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    November 14, 2023 10:55am
- Paulus
  
  Tova should be careful with this as it appears that Shane Jones is behind with Winston will do and he is greedy and not to be trusted with taxpayer money.
  So Tova don’t front up with Jones.
  
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  November 14, 2023 10:54am
oldpark

EU Condemns Hamas for Using ‘Hospitals as Human Shields’ The Truth Exposed.
Sunday, 12 November 2023 07:57 PM EST

The European Union on Sunday condemned Hamas for using “hospitals and civilians as human shields” in Gaza, while also urging Israel to show “maximum restraint” to protect civilians.

Hospitals in the north of the Palestinian enclave are blockaded by Israeli forces and barely able to care for those inside, according to medical staff. Gaza’s largest and second largest hospitals, Al Shifa and Al-Quds, said they were suspending operations.

Israel says Hamas has placed command centers under and near hospitals and it needs to get at them to free around 200 hostages the militants took in Israel in an attack just over a month ago. Hamas has denied using hospitals in this way.

“The EU condemns the use of hospitals and civilians as human shields by Hamas,” European Union foreign policy chief Josep Borrell said in a statement issued on behalf of the 27-nation bloc. “Civilians must be allowed to leave the combat zone.”

At the same time, he urged Israel to exercise maximum restraint, stressing the obligation under international humanitarian law to protect hospitals, medical supplies, and civilians inside hospitals.

“These hostilities are severely impacting hospitals and taking a horrific toll on civilians and medical staff,” Borrell said.

“Hospitals must … be supplied immediately with the most urgent medical supplies, and patients that require urgent medical care need to be evacuated safely,” he added. “In this context, we urge Israel to exercise maximum restraint to ensure the protection of civilians.”
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November 14, 2023 8:14am
- RoboRob
  
  Notice it’s the EU calling out Hamas for the war crime of using civilians to shield military assets, not the UN. This really highlights the total failure of the UN.
  
  The UN is full of pro Palestine supporters. For decades they should have been calling out Hamas for its untargeted rocket attacks on Israel. its theft of humanitarian supplies and basing military targets around schools, churches and hospitals. Instead they have focused on Israel.
  
  There are issues on both sides here but you wouldn’t know it if you were just listening to the UN. Part of the reason we have gotten to this stage is the UNs failure to call out Hamas and its allies (IRAN) over their actions. I fear for the middle east / world should Iran finally obtain nuclear weapon status.
  The UN hasn’t been fit for purposes of decades (ever?).
  
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  November 14, 2023 9:57am
kowtow

Any reports yet in our te media pahti of the latest in the ongoing genocide of black Africans in Sudan .

Afterall the death of one single black American at the hands of some US police was enough for our msm to lose all perspective and rationality or is the chant blm and public adherence to it just another veneer for their deepseated Marxism , like the current anti Israel stuff is a similar front for far left extremism as well as traditional anti semitism from the usual suspects.
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November 14, 2023 8:15am
- Blackbob
  
  I think you might already know the answer to that question 🙂
  
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  November 14, 2023 8:33am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Cheer up. At least things seem to be going in the right direction for northern Ireland:
  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/25/uk-young-people-united-ireland-stormont-brexit
  
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  November 14, 2023 8:37am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    You know absolutely nothing about the direction of Northern Ireland, and using The Grauniad as a source reinforces that.
    The fact they use a photo with a group of naive, brainwashed kids carrying a ‘net zero’ banner tells the reader everything they need to know.
    
    Those kids will wake up after a couple of years of the impacts of the reality of the insanity of ‘net zero’.
    
    Northern Ireland won’t be going anywhere for at least a century.
    
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    November 14, 2023 9:20am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Those kids are growing and will vote for a united Ireland very soon.
      
      6 12
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      November 14, 2023 10:04am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        milky – trust me. It won’t happen for a very, very long time. There will be a very messy, very bloody civil war first.
        I understand the politics there very well. It’s where I was born and it’s why I left. Bigotry and hatred is entrenched and will be for generations. A couple of educated (brainwashed) kids ‘marching for climate’ isn’t going to change the reality.
        
        I hope one day they’ll all be able to move on from the past and live together in peace, I’m sure they will, but it won’t be for quite some time.
        
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        November 14, 2023 10:43am
      - NothingLeft
        
        Affluence is the cure to tribalistic enmity. Fat happy populations find it harder to muster enthusiasm for conflict.
        
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        November 14, 2023 2:02pm
kevn

Maggie… Indeed, the tone doesn’t match the (very sad) story.
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November 14, 2023 8:15am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Does anyone else get the impression that Oranga Tamariki is wiping its hands of certain children that are “known” to them?
  
  “Oranga Tamariki said it was unable to comment on the case as it is still before the courts, however, a summary of facts granted to the media revealed the boy and his 2-year-old brother were known to the service.
  
  Court documents state Oranga Tamariki had sporadic involvement in monitoring the care and protection of the children throughout their lives.”
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/christchurch-man-pleads-guilty-to-significant-child-abuse-burns-boys-foot-with-cigarette-lighter/SV56YQ275RHMFKG54AAETTPWRU/
  
  This abused, starved child must have gone months without being monitored or “cared for” by Oranga Tamariki.
  
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  November 14, 2023 8:27am
  - kowtow
    
    Things might start changing in NZ if our te media spent as much time “caring” about NZ children as they seem to do over the children of foreign conflicts .
    
    Charity begins at home.
    
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    November 14, 2023 8:34am
  - plc
    
    But remember – as Ghost tells us – we can’t assume the child is Maori.
    
    “He just as likely to be non-Maori – Yeah Right”
    
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    November 14, 2023 8:49am
    - Ghost
      
      3 white children murdered by their white mother in timaru, waiting to hear her sentence. When you look at children who’ve been murdered in nz they aren’t all Maori.
      
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      November 14, 2023 8:59am
      - wsk12345
        
        Difference between murder (which was due to psychosis I believe?) and systemic abuse of kids over a period of months or years.
        
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        November 14, 2023 9:05am
      - plc
        
        They are heavily disproportionally Maori
        
        And you would think that the so-called leaders would want to do something about it.
        
        And by “something” I don’t mean blame others.
        
        Maori children experience physical abuse at a disproportionally high level and the failure to ACTIVELY acknowledge that is part of the problem – and a shame on all tribal leaders.
        
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        November 14, 2023 9:10am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Ghost – I understand what you’re trying to defend, but do you have the per capita stats? That will be more telling than one anecdotal reference.
        
        Disclaimer. I don’t know what the stat say, I think I know what they will say, but that’s probably me being ‘racist’.
        
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        November 14, 2023 9:23am
      - NothingLeft
        
        “When you look at children who’ve been murdered in nz they aren’t all Maori”
        
        Damning with the faintest of possible praise.
        
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        November 14, 2023 9:23am
Yvette

What Willie didn’t do

Negotiations will be considering the referendum that David Seymour promised voters is a bottomline condition for Act Party coalition support.

But, at the moment could the yet-unsanitised version of the He Paupau response of 70 managed hui, which Willie Jackson feared his Cabinet colleagues would reject, be taken down from the shelf it was hidden on for the duration of the Election, and publicly released?

A first step in re-indigenisation and decolonisation should surely be not whitewashing this report or 3-watering it down. Show the public what Willie won’t.

Then the referendum may not be needed.
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November 14, 2023 8:17am
- Yvette
  
  By asking the writers to try again, has Willie imposed his own intellectual colonisation, cultural misappropriation, disinformation and betrayal on their 70 hui response anyway? And “they will go to war” over lost expectations that have not been presented to Cabinet (that is surely the Minister’s fault), let alone the nation (that’s the Labour Cabinet’s fault) ?
  
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  November 14, 2023 8:58am
kowtow

A good one from Chris Trotter.

‘And now, as if the malevolent spirit of the times has not destabilised our world enough, New Zealanders’ adherence to the values and processes of democracy is being put to the test. Once again, the dividing line is horizontal, not vertical, with the “decolonising” project of Māori nationalism sundering the supporters of democracy from the partisans of ethnic exceptionalism. Like Palestine, the meaning, purpose, and future of Te Tiriti O Waitangi has become an issue over which an amiable ‘agreement to differ’ is no longer possible.’

https://www.interest.co.nz/public-policy/125202/new-zealanders%E2%80%99-adherence-values-and-processes-democracy-being-put-test-writes
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November 14, 2023 8:18am
Maggie Pie

Yet another video has just been released by Hamas following the bombing of the
‘Al Shifa Hospital’ by Israel……

https://twitter.com/oswahaibi/status/1723420169135902973
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November 14, 2023 8:27am
- Blog-aholic
  
  The dude in the video is a well known Hamas propagandist.
  The IDF have recently stated that he is now permanently unemployed.
  
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  November 14, 2023 8:33am
  - Inandout
    
    Same actor, different movie.
    
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    November 14, 2023 8:53am
- virtualmark
  
  His name is Saleh Aljafarawi but the Internet knows him as “Mr FAFO” or sometimes as “Mr Pallywood”.
  
  At different times he’s been a radiologist, a freedom fighter, an air raid victim, a reporter, a singer and, in his best role yet, a dead body. That came back to life.
  
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  November 14, 2023 10:44am
- Ehlana
  
  I keep hearing that Israel is bombarding this hospital. Yet it is still standing and there are still people inside it.
  I have also heard that Israel has arranged a humanitarian corridor for the evacuation of premature babies. But it seems the adults inside the hospital are “too scared” to use it. They seemed to have lots of excuses not to leave, which didn’t make sense to me.
  Unless, of course, the real problem is that there are Hamas fighters inside the hospital, and they want everyone else to stay to keep themselves safe and for emotional blackmail purposes.
  
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  November 14, 2023 3:34pm
Biscuit

Hmmm, only seven posts thus far on GD today as I type.

Israel, Greta T, the ‘standard’ of New Zealand journalism…

I ask you, are these the sorts of topcs that Mikenmildagain would want to read?

We must do better, Kiwibloggers!
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November 14, 2023 8:28am
mikenmildagain

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Gravelroad made an astute comment on the other thread:

But some of us out here are over Labour Party goings-on and want to know what the heck is happening with the new government.
The longer this goes on, the harder it will be for National to govern.
It is clear now that Mr Luxon, and his MP’s, are being manipulated and played by demanding minor parties.

There were a couple of good columns about this on Stuff:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301007984/tova-obrien-christopher-luxons-inexperience-costs-him-international-power-play
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/133284587/how-long-should-government-negotiations-take-and-when-is-a-redo-election-required
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November 14, 2023 8:32am
- Blackbob
  
  “There were a couple of good columns about this on Stuff:”
  I doubt that.
  
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  November 14, 2023 8:36am
- burt
  
  I think you are confused, you have linked stuff articles and seem to think they have some value other than being political party broadcasts for the Labour Party.
  
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  November 14, 2023 8:41am
- Matt Long
  
  Or the aspiring coalition partners are being responsible, working out a stable deal for the good of their constituents and the country, rather than feeding the chooks empty slogans with vacuous smiles and wavey hands.
  I personally don’t want a pretend coalition agreement that falls apart, a robust well negotiated agreement suits me a lot better.
  
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  November 14, 2023 8:43am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    You think an agreement with Winston Peters won’t fall apart?
    
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    November 14, 2023 8:51am
    - RoboRob
      
      I can’t stand Winston First but history tells us that Winston is a good coalition partner. He tends to focus on the things NZF want (Foreign affairs and progressive growth fund etc) and ignore all the other stuff. This lets the government of the day just do their thing. We saw this with JA and her gas changes, Ha puapu (or whatever it is).
      
      The only time NZF have been an issue was with the very first MMP election. I believe he had a Maori revult from within NZF and the ‘contract’ with National was too detailed / binding.
      
      Winston will be a ‘fine’ coalition partner and as a student of history you would know that Mike.
      
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      November 14, 2023 10:04am
    - RoboRob
      
      Lol, good trolling though! I guess I fell for it and responded.
      
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      November 14, 2023 10:05am
    - virtualmark
      
      I don’t think it will fall apart. But I do think it will be dysfunctional.
      
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      November 14, 2023 10:45am
- Libertarians are right
  
  It’s been just over a week.
  It takes time to come up with a strong and fair coalition agreement.
  It’s not like with Labour/Greens/NZ First where the Greens bent over and NZFirst got given stuff they didn’t even ask for.
  
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  November 14, 2023 8:58am
  - nathie
    
    Like when NZF wanted $1b in total for the PGF but Labour thought they meant $1b/year so gave them $3b in total!
    
    Who were the muppets in the Labour negotiating team that have nothing between their ears?!
    
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    November 14, 2023 9:14am
    - RoboRob
      
      The same Labour party who told Toll transport they were desperate to buy back rail at any cost and then started negotiating 🙂
      
      That was with Helen and Cullen too, who were far more with it then Jacinda (whats GDP?) Ardern and Kelvin Davis.
      
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      November 14, 2023 10:07am
    - Paulus
      
      Hasn’t the PGF propaganda been extended by the still Government to 2026 ?
      
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      November 14, 2023 10:59am
- Biscuit
  
  mikenmildagain, I’d caution you against putting too much stock on anything Stuff throws up for you to read.
  
  The great Tova, by her own admission, ‘didn’t see’ Labour’s drubbing in the most recent election coming. I’d imagine that your finger would have been far closer to the pulse, heh.
  
  And Glenn McConnell’s piece, whilst very readable (not something I can say about much of Tova’s drivel), threw up nothing I didn’t already know.
  It is, I see, exactly a month since the most recent Election Day.
  Glenn’s pretty graphs tell us that only two previous MMP Elections have produced a Government within a month of the result (the anomalous 2020 Election excluded).
  The average time for the other nine Elections to have produced a Government was 36.5 days.
  We haven’t got to that point yet.
  And, Glenn states, ‘the absolute deadline for Parliament to reform is December 21.’
  That’s a month and a week away.
  Why the panic?
  Why the getting-the-knickers-into-a-twist by our political media?
  
  I suspect a large dollop of ‘but my public need it be told my opinion on things! I’m an award-winning journalist!’..
  
  How do you see it?
  
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  November 14, 2023 9:01am
  - RoboRob
    
    I would add the other elections have also only had to wait two weeks for results not three. Much of the delay can be assigned to the incompetence of the electoral commission.
    
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    November 14, 2023 10:10am
    - Biscuit
      
      Ah I didn’t factor that in, Rob!
      
      Ta!
      
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      November 14, 2023 10:29am
- ClanMcleod
  
  ‘good article on Stuff’ is possibly the best example of an oxymoron anyone will read this year.
  
  Well done.
  
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  November 14, 2023 9:26am
- Gravelroad
  
  Come on people – be fair.
  If this was the Labour Party mucking round trying to form a government (with a majority) there would be comments on here about the slack incompetence of Labour. Why is it taking so long, a failure of leadership and so on.
  The general election in 2017 took place on September 23rd.
  Mr Winston Peters announced his coalition government with Labour and leader Ms Ardern on October 19th.
  Most of us can recognise why this situation is being replayed in 2023. Mr Peters and his sidekick Jones must be very pleased with the continuing voter support.
  Mr Luxon- not so much.
  
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  November 14, 2023 9:55am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Arguably, it was a trickier negotiation in 2017 as Peters had more choice in forming a government.
    
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    November 14, 2023 10:06am
kiwikidsnz

Don’t feed the troll.
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November 14, 2023 8:35am
I remember when

Peters and Seymour team up as Luxon hits hurdles: Newsroom.

Boy, the media are determined to show that Luxon’s managerial experience doesn’t count.
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November 14, 2023 8:37am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Jenna Lynch on Newhub last night made a statement to the affect there was a huge gap between the parties in negotiations on policy. Cue Shane Jones and Seymour coming on next stating there was a few fringe elements on policy that needed more work.
  It isn’t a wonder that the media are distrusted when they make shit up (or worse leave stuff out) to sell their narrative.
  
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  November 14, 2023 8:44am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    But she did know that it was 719 hours since the polls closed and we’re still waiting – great investigative skills there ….
    
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    November 14, 2023 9:07am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      It’s 719 hours since the polls closed and we can have zero confidence that the votes have been counted correctly – how’s that Jenna?
      
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      November 14, 2023 9:49am
      - MCōs
        
        Of course the votes were not counted correctly to the nth degree. The Nelson recount showed that.
        However
        The count was clearly close enough for the purposes intended otherwise we’d be waiting until the next general election in 2026 as various judicial recounts moved the odd vote here or there.
        
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        November 14, 2023 11:08am
Swifty

No worries about those carbon emissions eh Helen?

https://www.utoronto.ca/news/helen-clark-former-prime-minister-new-zealand-receives-honorary-degree

That’s just for the plebs.
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November 14, 2023 8:42am
Maggie Pie

TIME TO PULL THE PLUG.

Recall when Nanaia re-branded 10 WATERS as ‘Affordable Water Reforms’?

Labor then appointed 4 ‘Water-Executives’ to the newly established roles.
All of them pulling annual salaries in excess of $700k !!

https://twitter.com/NewstalkZB/status/1723793284823155070
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November 14, 2023 8:50am
- Raphael
  
  I’m not overly enamoured with what Chris Bishop was touting as a replacement for 3 Waters. I am hoping the negotiations include telling him that putting out the same basic plan as Labour is not what people want
  
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  November 14, 2023 9:41am
- Paulus
  
  Expect to see Nanaia Mahuta elevated to Damehood like Ardern very shortly in the next Honours List for Aotearoa.
  Assume with it she still expects to be the next Tainui Maori Queen.
  Bags of dosh too there.
  
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  November 14, 2023 11:05am
  - Ghost
    
    Yeah, she won’t become a dame.
    
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    November 14, 2023 11:10am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  This shit has to stop.
  
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  November 14, 2023 11:09am
Tauhei Notts

I hope that Cam is looking after King Chuck as he enters his final quarter century today.
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November 14, 2023 8:59am
nathie

Stand by for Marama and Willie to declare these people as “not real Maori” and nothing but a bunch of “white supremacists”!

https://twitter.com/IndigenousCFI/status/1718762879535743259?
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November 14, 2023 9:03am
- ClanMcleod
  
  nathie – I would bet a hundred bucks that the vast majority of these ‘pro Israel’ supporters, like the ‘pro Palestinian’ supporters, couldn’t give you more than one narrative created sentence to explain why they support one side or the other.
  
  I don’t have a ‘side’. I abhor all war and condemn all deliberate attacks on civilians in any conflict.
  I’ve been consistent with this my whole life, including when I lived in an actual conflict zone. Shit happens, but I don’t have to and won’t support stuff that’s wrong.
  
  We have created a society in which many of the current so called adults have been heavily influenced by 20 years or more of social media. Tiktok, Instagram, Facebook etc etc. Sound bites. The majority of people apparently have the attention span of a goldfish.
  
  Facebook in particular is an embarrassing reflection of how far current society has fallen in a couple of hundred years since the ‘Enlightenment’.
  People change their ‘frames’ to reflect their virtue signaling support of ‘the latest thing’ more often than some people change their underwear.
  It’s a tragedy. They have no idea what they are supporting.
  
  Most of these ‘supporters’ couldn’t point to Israel on a map, let alone explain what the Sykes Picot or Balfour agreements were.
  
  We’ve been dumbed down, manipulated and brainwashed for a number of decades and the results of that can be witnessed in what increasingly looks like the collapse of civilisation.
  Most people are stupid. Most are easily manipulated by narrative controllers. The best example was during covid. The whole world was conned.
  
  Like the Roman Empire, preceded by the bread and circuses, in our case, social media and the internet.
  Or maybe it’s just more deliberate fracturing and segmenting of society so that increasingly frightened and desperate people beg for a ‘Great Reset’ and will happily accept ‘owning nothing and being happy’ and living in boxes in their ’15 minute cities’?
  
  I’m sure humanity will sort this all out, eventually, again. We’ve had dark times in our history before and we’re in them right now. It’s all about how long it takes and how much misery will be inflicted before people decide enough is enough.
  
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  November 14, 2023 9:58am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Willie is not a real Maori according to percentages we saw yesterday.
  20% Polynesian is the closest.
  
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2023/11/general_debate_13_november_2023.html#comment-3467459
  
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  November 14, 2023 11:24am
nathie

Mum wants to clip son around the ear for being a “naughty little boy” for taking playing dress-ups way too far!

https://twitter.com/GazaHealth/status/1723775523350880520
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November 14, 2023 9:07am
- ClanMcleod
  
  More narrative control. Like the ‘chemical weapons attacks’ by Assad in Syria. Made up stories to support a fraudulent position.
  
  https://off-guardian.org/2019/05/14/leaked-report-douma-chemical-attack-likely-staged/
  
  The ability to manipulate media of all kinds makes it extremely difficult to know for sure what is true and what is PR. As in the above article from OffGuardian, we have clear evidence of sophisticated manipulation of reality.
  
  Control of narrative is now more important than truth. We’re in a tumultuous period in history.
  
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  November 14, 2023 10:13am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    You seem to have missed the fact that the OPCW’s actual report, rather than the off Guardian’s fantasy, found the Syrian air force responsible for the attack.
    
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    November 14, 2023 10:20am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Oh, it must be true then…….just like the WMD’s and Colin Powell’s little test tube…….//
      
      It was a nonsensical claim with laughable ‘evidence’. Of course the OPCW found the Syrian Air Force guilty. That was the only purpose of their ‘investigation’.
      
      Just like the Skripals and the Salisbury Novachok attacks using one of the deadliest toxins on the planet.
      
      According to the media at the time, to be safe, you needed to clean down surfaces with baby wipes……
      
      https://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/16338547.novichok-symptoms-common-questions-guidance-phe/
      
      About as useful as hiding under your bed, wearing a mask and taking an experimental ‘vaccine’ during covid. 😂😂😂
      
      Whatever happened to the Skripals btw????
      
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      November 14, 2023 10:29am
      - virtualmark
        
        The Skripals now live in New Zealand. True.
        
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        November 14, 2023 10:46am
      - OverseasKiwi
        
        I agree. We are subjected to propaganda on a daily basis. Its purpose is to ensure compliance with whatever narrative the elite wishes to impose on the populace. Many of the comments here reflect this reality. The propaganda of the first Iraq War in 2003 pales in comparison to the last two years. It is intolerant of dissenting opinions, which are quickly delegitimised and their proponents relentlessly smeared.
        
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        November 14, 2023 10:46am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        virtualmark – interesting. I hope they’re having a happy life.
        
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        November 14, 2023 11:32am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Your laughable off-Guardian story was supposedly based on a leaked OPCW report, so you obviously were prepared to place credence in the organization if it back your Syrian government heroes.
        
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        November 14, 2023 12:16pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  TV team props?
  Wonder how often that sort of thing is used by Fake News Media?
  
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  November 14, 2023 11:26am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    It was used repeatedly in Syria, particularly by the White Helmets with deliberately constructed propaganda scenes.
    The kid in the iconic photo, in shock after a bombing in Aleppo is a good example. Here’s the father explaining the reality of what happened. Only 1: 30 seconds.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ3KfEdTT3Y
    
    It happens all the time.
    
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/fake-news-alert-cnn-finally-admits-white-helmets-staged-fake-video/5559164
    
    We are propagandised on a daily basis. We are fortunate we are only keyboard commentators forming opinions and arguing about who is right and who is wrong. Those living amongst the horror of these situations rarely have the luxury of debating’ the truth.
    
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    November 14, 2023 11:40am
Chuck Bird

Now premium. David is quite right. I know plenty of people who identify as Maori who seldom if ever go to a marae.

David Seymour unplugged: His whakapapa, his Māoriness and that Treaty

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/a-korero-with-david-seymour-his-whakapapa-his-maoriness-and-the-treaty/XAV32IOZVJG53PX25XLCEV5UVE/
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November 14, 2023 9:08am
- Scott
  
  Aren’t we really at the stage where if you identify as Maori you are Maori? David Seymour is exclusively a white person apart from one Maori great great grandmother. In what meaningful sense is he a Maori?
  
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  November 14, 2023 9:50am
- Jack5
  
  In the interview, Seymour says his “Maori whakapapa” is his great-great-great grandmother.
  
  If she is Seymour’s only Maori ancestor he is one-sixteenth Maori, or 6.25 per cent. That’s but a blip on the DNA analyses run by genealogy web sites, where so many people dream of Viking or North American Indian ancestry.
  
  In Ngai Tahu, and presumably other tribes, however, that seems enough, even more than enough, to get you recognised as a member. Being Maori is having even a smidgen of Maori ancestry.
  
  Settled: David Seymour is not a Polyseudian, a make-believe Maori on the lines of the “Pretendians” being uncovered in North America — celebrities falsely claiming to be North American indigenous people.
  
  NZ must have tens of thousands of part-Maori who identify as ethnic Europeans, and the mix will get more interesting still as recent immigrants from various parts of Asia and from Samoa and Tonga merge into the population.
  
  Let’s hope that for future generations this will mean hybrid vigour, or heterosis.
  
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  November 14, 2023 11:11am
  - Taieri
    
    great-great-great grandmother
    ————–
    
    A great-great-great grandmother is very much an abstract. As there’re 16 of them it’s virtually impossible to quickly recall the name of any of them let alone anything else. For example, one of my great-great-great grandmothers was born in 1792 and died in 1842. All that I know of her is her name and the name of her father, but I had to refer to my family tree in order to write this.
    I can remember all names as far as great grandparents go, but for the previous generations is no that easy.
    
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    November 14, 2023 11:57am
Swifty

To Ra Henare:

Ra, yesterday you asked me for evidence regarding human occupation of Palestine going back a lot longer than 9,000 years.

There is quite extensive evidence of human occupation going back hundreds of thousands of years including that of Homo Sapiens and Neanderthal and that of the earlier hominim, Homo Erectus, and their descendants well in excess of one million years before present.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistory_of_the_Levant
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November 14, 2023 9:29am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Plenty of people there well before the Israelites arrived to exterminate the Amalekites, Midianites, Canaanites, etc at God’s command.
  
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  November 14, 2023 10:10am
  - ISeeRed
    
    Just like Arabs exterminating Jews at Allah’s command on 7/10. If it was wrong then, it’s wrong now. Right, Mikey?
    
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    November 14, 2023 4:56pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Many thanks
  
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  November 14, 2023 9:58pm
Maggie Pie

After months of lobbying by myself and thousands of other like-minded Twitterati,
it’s fab to see Elon has finally reinstated the wonderful Katie Hopkins to ‘X’.

Here she is on Suealla Braverman’s sacking and David Cameron’s return….

https://twitter.com/KTHopkins/status/1724069160286658648

ENJOY 😀
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November 14, 2023 9:31am
Loddenthinks

Update from the north: I’ve been in London for 4 weeks now, since not long after the Hamas terrorist atrocities, and have witnessed a slow (but accelerating) change in the narrative. It is now Hamas and the Gazans being portrayed as the victims (I agree that to some extent the Gazans are victims of the murderous terrorists they voted into power, but that’s not the narrative), and israel and Netanyahu the bad guys.

Several hundred thousand Palestinian ~~supporters~~ apologists marched through London on both Saturday (Remembrance Day) and Sunday (official observation of Remembrance Day) and the calls for a “pause” or ceasefire are drowning out Netanyahu’s entirely reasonable proposition that they’ll be happy to consider a ceasefire once every last hostage has been safely released.

On an unrelated note, I’ve just sat down to a delicious meal of grilled lamb steaks and a simple salad of fresh rocket, red onions, grilled vine tomatoes, Greek feta and calamata olives, washed down with a very acceptable Bordeaux.

I bought the lot from Asda, which has a 24-hour Superstore not 10 mins walk from my Airbnb well to the east of central London, and grilled the lamb myself. I’m almost embarrassed to mention what the whole meal cost, suffice to say it was peanuts compared to anything comparable in NZ.

Oh, and the lamb was from Australia, and very bloody nice too. I don’t know who it was that negotiated the FTA with the UK, but you can’t buy NZ lamb for love nor money here, so well done chaps, we’re back of the queue once again.
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November 14, 2023 9:46am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Sounds delish! I’m going to that tonite for dinner 😛
  
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  November 14, 2023 9:55am
  - mogg
    
    Lamb is the best meat in the world.
    This Thursday is ‘Beaujolais Nouveau’ day. Your wine merchant will have it in stock, cheap, cheerful goes with everything, and great fun too.
    
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    November 14, 2023 1:47pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      When I lived here during my OE Beaujolais Nouveau day reached fever-pitch proportions. The race to get the first bottle to London made the effort of getting the first Bluff oysters of the season to Auckland look pedestrian.
      
      From memory, in the early 80s someone parachuted into the Thames with the first bottle in an effort to win. It’s now been formalised into the Beaujolais Run:
      
      https://beaujolaisrun.com/
      
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      November 14, 2023 10:42pm
OverseasKiwi

I will willingly claim a mea culpa in yesterday’s comments. I should not have appealed to credentialism (with a typo!), in effect an appeal to authority, in the Ukraine discussion, even if the opposing arguments are unconvincing. When I was in academia, scholarly opinions frequently became overheated, with disputes lasting decades. There is no unified view on anything. The debate over exactly when was the turning point of WWII in the European theatre, for example, is still unresolved and probably never will be.

I will clarify one remark I made, however. When I meant that the Russian armed forces are “best”, it is in the sense that they are now the most lethal on the planet. Indeed, the way in which they now function bears little resemblance to 2022. This is typical in war, where the rapid improvement in technology has rendered previous assumptions about peer-level Western-style warfare obsolete. Ukraine benefits from the collective NATO intelligence apparatus, which is superior to Russia, which makes surprise even at the local level virtually impossible. But Russian weapons systems have demonstrated themselves superior in a robust battlefield environment and are better integrated than the NATO equivalent. It is often said that the crucible of war is a cruel teacher. Those who fail die and those who succeed can fight another day. The Russians have learnt from their mistakes and I have no doubt that Western think tanks are carefully analysing the conflict as well. We are witnessing a paradigm shift and Russia, for the time being, is leading the way.

One final point. It is very difficult to modernise an army. It can take decades. Look at the problems the Russians and Israelis are having, with equipment shortages and other organisational difficulties. It requires time and industrial-level production to solve these problems. No other army in the world can escape this reality. Europe’s armed forces have degraded so much, in comparison to the end of the Cold War, that are of little consequence on the battlefield and have no staying power (Poland perhaps the exception?). The BAOR was impressive, but the British army now cannot even field one battle worthy division.
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November 14, 2023 9:56am
- NothingLeft
  
  Russian weapons are junk, and this war has destroyed their reputation and whatever remained of their arms export industry.
  
  Their tanks and IFVs and APVs have low accuracy and low survivability when hit by missiles, drones or mines. Western armour crews survive far more often (a very valuable feature given time it takes to train)
  
  Russian ranged attack weapons have low accuracy meaning they have to use massively more ordinance at extremely high cost to destroy a target – with all the supply and logistics issues that creates as well as increased wear and tear from higher firing rates adding to their problems increasing maintenance and logistics issues and degrading accuracy further. Their glide bombs and missiles are little more than terror weapons that can’t reliably hit targets (otherwise Ukraine would be in serious trouble). Ukraine can match their lethality with far fewer people and weapons.
  
  Russian artillery is woeful – with far shorter range and less accuracy meaning that they can’t engage in effective counter-battery against Ukrainian artillery. They are losing 20-40 artillery systems a day to Ukraine which is losing less than 10% of that.
  
  The old doctrine of “quantity having a quality all of its own” is sunk. Better 1 expensive but accurate piece of ordinance than 50 cheap but low accuracy equivalents needed to destroy the same target.
  
  Witnessing Russia’s offensive efforts in recent weeks hundreds and hundreds of tanks and IFVs lost and 10’s of thousands of troops dead and injured for no significant gains) makes it clear they have learned nothing through this war, but have succeeded in making their command structures even more political, looking for paper ‘counting coup’ propaganda victories, but being less effective.
  
  Conventional 20th Century warfare is in its last days, as it is obsoleted by drone murderbots of various sizes and capabilities – they are now starting to be AI enhanced meaning they can find targets and do terminal guidance using onboard vision systems to improve accuracy in areas of anti-drone jamming.
  
  A lot of people think that Ukraine should surrender, but it looks like Putin needs an ongoing war and the extra control/power over his population that that excuses to maintain his power. If Ukraine surrendered Putin would just start the next conflict.
  
  The west needs to beat him in Ukraine (at low cost to themselves), or get ready to keep on fighting Russia in theatre conflicts on fringes of Europe over the long term.
  
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  November 14, 2023 11:14am
  - kevn
    
    Nothing… Low cost? Globally hundreds of billions of dollars laid out. Lots of aid money corruptly filtered off with arms even ending up in hamas hands.
    Let me check with Alex Mercouris youtube channel for the actual up to date info.
    Plus the Ukraine women being drafted….
    https://dailytelegraph.co.nz/world/ukrainian-women-to-be-zelenskys-new-cannon-fodder/
    
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    November 14, 2023 11:54am
    - All_on_Red
      
      ‘Founded in 2016, The Duran is a strongly right-leaning news and opinion website with ties to Russian state media. Based in Cyprus, the website’s editor is Alexander Mercouris, who in 2012 was disbarred as an attorney in London. According to the Telegraph, he then went on to become a “pro-Russian commentator on world affairs for Russian TV news outlets and websites.”
      The Duran’s director is Peter Lavelle, the host of RT’s (Russian state news outlet) political debate program CrossTalk.
      In 2018, the right-leaning Weekly Standard accused The Duran of peddling Russian “Fake News.”
      In review, The Duran publishes news and opinions with a conservative and pro-Russian perspective, such as this: Roger Stone Shines New Light on Russia-Gate Hoax. This story is copied and pasted directly from the pro-Russian Strategic Culture Foundation. However, all articles involving Russia are generally positively slanted, such as Russia Grinds Out Wins In Europe and Trump boxed in on Iran, as Putin holds key to prevent war in Persian Gulf (Video). In addition, many articles are poorly sourced from Russian Propaganda outlets such as RT and Sputnik.
      https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-duran/
      
      More
      https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/28/pro-putin-commentator-faces-prospect-fraud-charges-yard-admits/
      
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      November 14, 2023 12:18pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      Ukraine war is costing western Military 5-10% of their budgets, mostly in the form of obsolete or near end-of-life equipment (like F16’s 1980’s tanks and IFVs etc) already sitting in storage awaiting eventual disposal – for which the real cost (as opposed to publicised ‘look how generous we are’ costing) is closer to zero. The west has in effect been clearing their oldest storage facilities of junk they have replacements for (with addition of some newer stuff and lots of consumable ordinance) In return they are degrading one of their two big potential adversaries to a dramatic degree at almost no cost of life to their own countries militaries.
      
      But really the future value of many conventional military systems maintained by govts around the world is dropping towards zero with the advent of cheap smart murderbots. Much of it has been obsoleted in last 2 years, meaning cost of sending it to Ukraine now is in reality very very low.
      
      Why should women avoid the draft? They have hands and brains, even if they are not best suited to front line infantry or other roles requiring strength, toughness and speed, they can still do a lot else.
      
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      November 14, 2023 12:30pm
      - info@cruzpro.com
        
        Yes,
        Apparently the older AIM-9M sidewinder (heat seeking air-to-air missile) is being sent to Ukraine with a launcher that enables the 9M to be fired from the ground.
        
        https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraines-aim-9m-sidewinders-can-be-used-in-multiple-ways
        
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        November 14, 2023 2:58pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Yep, if you had said to any US President since Truman that you could halve Russia’s military strength with no American loss of life and for less than 10% of the US annual military spend … every one of them would have taken that deal in a heartbeat.
        
        Well, maybe all but one of them.
        
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        November 14, 2023 3:15pm
      - marleybob
        
        You don’t think Russia is doing the same, doh.
        
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        November 14, 2023 6:34pm
- Phronesis
  
  I don’t think your comment yesterday was unreasonable. Kiwiblog is an unusual mix of average NZ’ers and some very interesting people who are experts in their fields. I have also worked in Universities for many years but I never comment here on topics within my area of specialist expertise because it would likely identify me to colleagues. Needless to say most of my comments here are very average!
  
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  November 14, 2023 11:16am
  - OverseasKiwi
    
    I have to be careful too. I purposely limit the amount and type of information, avoiding specifics because I do not want to be identified. Fortunately, I do not think that my former colleagues and military contacts would be interested in the activities of Kiwiblog.
    
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    November 14, 2023 11:34am
    - kowtow
      
      Oh God , Walter Mitty .
      
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      November 14, 2023 1:29pm
- kowtow
  
  Yeah well the “best” don’t seem to have learned anything as they try to encircle Avdievka , to massive losses of both man and machine , prof .
  
  Meanwhile the useless Ukrainians consolidate their bridgeheads on the Dniper , in the face of the best ,most lethal army in der welt .
  
  ( no apolgies for crap spelling of placenames , unlike the prof here , i’m no big academic . But I do know what we consider the First Iraq war or Gulf war wasn’t in 2003 )
  
  “The propaganda of the first Iraq War in 2003 pales in comparison to the last two years.”
  
  Academia , pfft.
  
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  November 14, 2023 11:29am
  - OverseasKiwi
    
    Kowtow – yes, I made a mistake, it was the second Gulf War. But you don’t have to act like a twelve year old in pointing it out.
    
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    November 14, 2023 11:55am
    - kowtow
      
      I’m not the guy who’s come on here claiming academic wonderfulness / expertise of decades and then making amateur hour mistakes such as adverse for averse and then getting basic facts on Gulf wars muddled .
      
      Not to mention your childish attempt to set parameters on discussion here such as this from you yesterday ;
      
      ‘I am ready for pushback on these observations. No juvenile rhetoric please – there has been too much of this on Kiwiblog lately.’
      
      Are you sure you weren’t just a self appointed hall monitor .
      
      Innit. Professor .
      
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      November 14, 2023 1:27pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        I disagree with OverseasKiwi’s assessments kowtow, but she shows reasonableness in the way she argues and comments, and humility in minor retraction, so how about cutting her some slack not nit-picking and steering clear of ad-homs.
        
        Do not punish behaviour in others that you want to see maintained.
        
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        November 14, 2023 2:54pm
      - kowtow
        
        NL
        
        If someone comes on here on here all “expert,” throwing it about and then making demands that people answer their assertion in a non juvenile way and casting aspersions at all and sundry , not reasonable .
        
        And I don’t accept that it’s nit picking to point out that someone claiming all sorts of high academic wonderfulness will get averse and adverse mixed up and likewise the dates of very significant recent wars ( esp having already claimed expertise)
        
        ps all this follows from the evidence free assertion of the Ivans being the “best” , when in fact they’re shit.
        
        I smell a rat.
        
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        November 14, 2023 3:41pm
Maggie Pie

THIS IS SOOO HEART WRENCHING 🙁

A little 3 year-old American girl is being held hostage by HAMAS after they shot her mum and dad while she was being held in his arms….

https://mol.im/a/12744613

The same ‘HAMAS’ childless members of the Rainbow Greens support.
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November 14, 2023 10:17am
- NothingLeft
  
  No concessions to hostage takers. Hold a funeral and then do what you can to get her back via aggression, but above all make sure you eradicate all the evil bastards responsible.
  
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  November 14, 2023 11:22am
- Ghost
  
  There is talk of a cease fire and release of hostages coming. Apparently sources in Egypt, so only time will tell if it is factual.
  
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  November 14, 2023 11:29am
  - Inandout
    
    Ghost, there is talk NZ will have a new government soon.
    
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    November 14, 2023 1:24pm
- ISeeRed
  
  She’s still a white supremacist and coloniser.
  
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  November 14, 2023 5:00pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

You Tube has decided that we are too influential and affecting people in a way that they don’t approve of.
I suggest YouTube has been influenced by people within NZ.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/you-tube-shuts-down-stop-co-governance-so-we-are-moving-to-rumble/
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November 14, 2023 10:20am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Google unhappy with alternative opinion or indeed facts.
  
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  November 14, 2023 10:25am
- ClanMcleod
  
  We know social media colludes with government to control narrative.
  
  During covid, the NZ government had the ability to access and censor content.
  
  https://expose-news.com/2022/12/03/nz-gov-has-backdoor-access-to-censor/
  
  North Korea is studying hard……..
  
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  November 14, 2023 10:49am
Phronesis

Interesting decision reported in the Herald. A judge has decided that where a woman has fallen pregnant to a sperm donor who happens to be maori that said sperm donor can then gain guardianship of the resulting child. This specific instance involved the less fun method of sperm donation but the reasons given by the judge (tikanga…) for her decision would apply equally to a one night stand. It’s a fundamental shift in NZ law and probably the biggest infringement of women’s reproductive rights in NZ’s history.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/maori-sperm-donor-appointed-guardian-of-child-mother-described-as-half-caste-after-family-court-challenge/O6SN5L5FBNH4PAE5HTSCISRKXM
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November 14, 2023 10:40am
- muzled
  
  Welcome to nuzlnd – where Donor has a different meaning from the rest of the planet.
  
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  November 14, 2023 12:36pm
- Ehlana
  
  Whole thing sounds weird. Why would you agree to donate to someone who specifically wants to create a “half-caste Maori child”? That sounds terrible to start with.
  
  It also sounds like a cautionary tale about “informal” arrangements and what happens when they go wrong.
  
  On top of which is this: “Judge Moss wrote that it was necessary to consider “familial, community and cultural matters which are inherent in the development of the identity of a Māori child. These considerations are different from those for a Pākehā child”.”
  
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  November 14, 2023 3:39pm
  - ISeeRed
    
    “half-caste” sounds antiquated and slightly insulting like “negro” or “cripple”. Or is that just me?
    
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    November 14, 2023 5:04pm
Ghost

Ex-British prime mnister David Cameron has been appointed Foreign Secretary in a surprise return for the man who was responsible for austerity and the Brexit referendum that took Britain out of the European Union.

Article
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November 14, 2023 11:00am
- Steve Todd
  
  I paraphrase an e-mail from the Electoral Reform Society in London, that arrived in my Inbox at 0421 hrs today.
  
  “So, the prime minister is able to appoint anyone he likes to one of the great offices of state, simply by making him a Lord?
  
  “Once again, we are seeing the UK’s political honours system for what it really is – nothing more than a grubby giveaway for political allies.
  
  “[House of Lords reform is clearly well overdue.] Britain’s legislators should be chosen by the people [by multi-seat PR/STV], not appointed by politicians.”
  
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  November 14, 2023 1:52pm
Ghost

I’d guess someone didn’t study for an exam…..

A high school in Dunedin is under lockdown, after a large number of armed police entered the area following an online threat.

A police spokesperson said around 8.45am they were advised that Bayfield High School, had received a threat via email.

Article
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November 14, 2023 11:02am
Philview

I was amused by an article yesterday I think in the New York Times where a journalist was having a meltdown because Donald Trump is soaring in the polls. I personally don’t like him but I have to admire the fact that he seems to transcend everything that has been thrown at him.
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November 14, 2023 11:21am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Almost the dictionary definition of the Streisand effect, if somewhat in reverse.
  
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  November 14, 2023 11:53am
ClanMcleod

I don’t pretend to understand the conflict/s in the ME. I’ve read some of the history, but as someone who came from a conflict zone, I realise there are often nuances that outsiders will struggle to understand.

I first saw this animation re Israel/Palestine etc a few years ago and thought it explained well how history changes and what is true today may not have been true a hundred years ago.

Anyone who wants to – let me know if it isn’t a reasonable summary of how the area got to the mess it’s currently in. Link me to any useful (unbiased) sources of information. I’m always open to new information and learning.

It begins in ‘caveman’ days and gets up to relatively modern times.

https://blog.ninapaley.com/2012/10/01/this-land-is-mine/
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November 14, 2023 11:28am
- NothingLeft
  
  Interesting thought I saw from Bret Weinstein recently – that the west has blossomed through capitalism boosting everyone’s lives through it’s ‘grow the pie’ optimal fostering of innovation driven growth making rapidly lifting everyone’s standard of living. But as those growth opportunities dry up the world is reverting to older tribalistic ‘steal more of the pie for me and mine’ default settings.
  
  The coming of AI and the singularity in next 1-2 decades will upend everything, perhaps in positive ways, but more likely (I think) in negative, as people’s labour loses economic value.
  
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  November 14, 2023 12:38pm
  - ISeeRed
    
    One optimistic scenario for AI:
    
    https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2023/11/chamath-foresees-ai-abundant-world-with-500-million-ai-powered-companies.html
    
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    November 14, 2023 5:09pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  The music is from the film Exodus based on the book by Leon Uris.
  
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  November 14, 2023 1:25pm
Tom Hunter

The Babylon Bee nails it again, 80 Years After Hitler Failed, Nazis Finally Seize London.

On a more serious note:

What happened over the weekend is that every single media outlet in the country went into overdrive to say that Braverman’s comments are fuelling the “far right”. If you’re not entirely clued up on British political designations, in this country the far right generally refers to people who:

– are racist and intolerant towards other ethnic and religious groups
– harbour prejudice against sexual minorities
– consider women inferior to men and treat them as second-class citizens
– use violence to achieve their political objectives and incite violence in public

In other words, the “far right” have been on British streets for weeks chanting genocidal slogans, calling for Jihad and saying things like “death to all the Jews” and “Hitler knew how to deal with these people”.

But that is, of course, not who the media mean when they talk about the “far right”. What they mean is a small number of football fans who like to get pissed and get into scuffles with the police. When these people did turn up, this was immediately taken as evidence that Braverman had incited a riot. Because if there’s one thing we know about football hooligans it’s that they all have a subscription to the Times and take inspiration from powerful brown women.
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November 14, 2023 11:44am
- Swifty
  
  These days ‘racist’ means simply opposing the Left and their prescriptions.
  
  As with ‘far-right’ and ‘Nazi’.
  
  Such is the Left’s abuse of the language, the terms have entirely and completely lost their original meanings.
  
  Like indigenous, oppression, genocide and a host of others they now mean whatever the Left wish them to mean.
  
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  November 14, 2023 12:48pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Orwell nailed his side on this decades ago: War is Peace etc.
    
    Hasn’t made any difference to their efforts to screw with the definitions and words and terms though, such is the need to “win” arguments by any means.
    
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    November 14, 2023 1:41pm
- kowtow
  
  And 85 years since kristelnacht , Jewish interests being attacked across the west .
  
  Shocking.
  
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  November 14, 2023 1:17pm
  - MCōs
    
    Jewish interests have never ceased to be attacked in Europe going back well before the last century right through until today.
    
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    November 14, 2023 1:59pm
    - kowtow
      
      And ……..?
      
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      November 14, 2023 3:32pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Just saw a few headlines. Luxon is not going to APEC. Good. Country first.
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November 14, 2023 11:58am
Maggie Pie

Must admit Jonesy’s oratory has grown on me a bit 😀

What has that smarmy Marama ever done to improve the state of NZ?

https://tiktok.com/@thehuinz/video/7286680142670204168
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November 14, 2023 11:59am
- Ghost
  
  Jones is always entertaining. He’d make a fun minister for Māori crown relations.
  
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  November 14, 2023 12:02pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    yes…even quite liked his tiktok rap vids 😀 😀 😀
    
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    November 14, 2023 12:14pm
  - kowtow
    
    He’s a very expensive piss taker on the back of the very long suffering, crippled NZ taxpayer and NZ productive sector.
    
    Nothing entertaining about it.
    
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    November 14, 2023 1:16pm
Swifty

I’ve been merciless at times on here ripping into Shane Jones over the PGF particularly and, while I stand behind those statements, credit where credit is due, he is exactly right on this treaty stuff:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/coalition-talks-shane-jones-says-there-will-be-waitangi-reset-as-nz-first-warms-up-to-acts-treaty-ideas/MDQBD34O6VAOTOZQHI73Z5HU5I/

I just hope he follows through and doesn’t bottle some way down the track.
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November 14, 2023 1:12pm
- Ghost
  
  I actually would like to see Winston or Shane as Minister for Māori crown relations. There needs to be a strong Māori leadership behind this reset.
  
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  November 14, 2023 1:20pm
  - Swifty
    
    Agreed.
    
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    November 14, 2023 1:23pm
  - Vinicius
    
    Yup, needs someone who can do some straight talking when required.
    
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    November 14, 2023 2:14pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    It’s quite telling that the parties that want an end to race based policy are one with Maori at 1 & 2 and one with Maori at 1, 3 & 4 yet it’s the party lead by a bunch of white people that’s worried about it being divisive.
    
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    November 14, 2023 2:52pm
    - Ghost
      
      I actually think it is the way it needs to be. Change to needs to be seen to be coming from Māori.
      
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      November 14, 2023 3:00pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        They will be doing everyone in the country by calling it for what it is right from the get go. Reverse racism that will set the country back, possibly irrevocably.
        
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        November 14, 2023 3:41pm
Maggie Pie

Yet more evidence of terrorism against Palestinians by Hamas….

The IDF have taken control of the Rantisi Childrens Hospital in Gaza and found a secret tunnel 20m below ground leading to a HAMAS command center.
All sorts of weapons, baby bottles and motorbikes left in the tunnel indicate hostages have been held there 🙁

https://twitter.com/BabakTaghvaee1/status/1724156805226324279
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November 14, 2023 2:07pm
kiwikidsnz

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/301008187/bloomfields-fluoridation-orders-unlawful-court-rules

Good. Next take a case about the Govts mass medication of NZdrs by the mandatory addition of folic acid to bread.
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November 14, 2023 2:22pm
Ghost

For the rugby supporters here

The All Blacks have another incident to add to their ‘what-if’ file after their agonising 12-11 loss to South Africa in the Rugby World Cup final.

Stuff understands World Rugby has privately acknowledged to the All Blacks that the ruling out of Aaron Smith’s try in the final was in fact outside the rules, but is refusing to publicly acknowledge that.

Article
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November 14, 2023 2:29pm
- MCōs
  
  Maybe World Rugby should take a fresh look at Bob Deans disallowed try against Wales in 1905
  In both cases it doesn’t mean a bag of beans
  (Deans’ great nephews Bruce Deans and Robbie Deans also played for the All Blacks)
  
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  November 14, 2023 4:02pm
Maggie Pie

An ‘open air prison’. Hmmm.

This was Gaza before the war….
was it worth it HAMAS?

https://tiktok.com/@explorepalestine/video/7300490210675035435
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November 14, 2023 3:15pm
- Ra Henare
  
  You have been conned Maggie..
  
  Try this from 2014.
  https://www.humanosphere.org/science/2014/08/visualizing-disparities-war-peace-israel-v-palestine/
  
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  November 14, 2023 4:52pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Interesting Ra, but thats a very old post.
    I understand things improved out of site after Arafat met his 72 Virgins.
    
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    November 14, 2023 5:59pm
    - Ghost
      
      72 virgins? He got short changed. Hope his virgins didn’t come from south Auckland, otherwise he really got short changed.
      
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      November 14, 2023 6:07pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Theres plenty where I come from 😛
        
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        November 14, 2023 7:15pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      9 years !!!! DO you honestly believe that any western civilization can turn a bomb site to your picture in 9 years?
      Better get then down to Hawkes Bay to provide them with that miracle.
      
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      November 14, 2023 10:01pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Your Link quotes this data period
        ‘Child deaths per 1,000 live births in Israel and Palestine, 1990-2013’
        
        Its ten years old.
        Theres been a population explosion in Gaza which belies your old and out of date data.
        I guess you just picked it because it supports your bias.
        I think theres a term for that.
        So funny.
        
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        November 14, 2023 11:55pm
Surely Knott

Are these things culturally unique? Food at meetings. A deep connection to your family and culture.

The courts rule over a dispute over child access. Genetic father is Maori. Lesbian mother raising child European.

“Judge Moss wrote that it was necessary to consider “familial, community and cultural matters which are inherent in the development of the identity of a Māori child. These considerations are different from those for a Pākehā child”.

Moss said the obligation arose from Te Tiriti o Waitangi, and the assessment would be incomplete without applying the principles of tikanga.

“The health and wellbeing of Māori children is undermined if they are not considered, indivisibly, from their whakapapa.”

So is the judge saying that Maori children need to be deeply connected to their extended family and their culture, but children from other cultures don’t? And the judge doesn’t say Maori are different from other cultures. Just Pakeha. Just NZers with white skin. It’s just racist.

The Judge is wrong. It’s racist. And should have said, “Children have a right to be connected to, and to know of their biological family, and the cultures from which they come.” Belonging to an extended family and a wider culture, is not exclusive to Maori and Pacifica.

And my second issue is with the the Kai served at the Marae during election. We were told this is ok because it’s a cultural norm.

Actually it’s illegal to treat. And serving Kai to guests at a meeting is not unique to Maori. Serving food to guests is custom in EVERY culture.
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November 14, 2023 3:22pm
- mandk
  
  “The health and wellbeing of Māori children is undermined if they are not considered, indivisibly, from their whakapapa.”
  
  But doesn’t the evidence show that children will enjoy better health and wellbeing outcomes if they are raised in the pakeha world?
  
  We are always being told that Māori children are disadvantaged because they are Māori.
  
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  November 14, 2023 4:06pm
mandk

No result yet from the Mt Albert recount.

@ Maggie Pie – what’s the word from the Viaduct?
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November 14, 2023 3:29pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  According to my partner, he reckons there’s a few down there who think
  NZ First is going to save this country.
  
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  November 14, 2023 3:39pm
  - MCōs
    
    Save the country from what exactly?
    Winston Peters?
    
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    November 14, 2023 4:04pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Hang on a minit….you and the missus would be happy to have a staunch advocate for the oldies wouldn’t ya Cossie? My partner’s mum is 😀
      
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      November 14, 2023 4:26pm
Ra Henare

Currently I am experiencing some low blood pressure problems.

Have found a non pharmaceutical solution.

Read KB General Debate comments, before breakfast, about Ukraine/Russia and Palestine/Israel .
So much ill informed drivel.

Keep up the good work the two Maggies in bringing sanity to the thread.
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November 14, 2023 3:53pm
Inandout

A most interesting Rubin interview, depressing in parts but there is hope for individual thought. I didn’t realise US universities were so full of group thinkers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EcsO-MoltE
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November 14, 2023 4:38pm
- Swifty
  
  Excellent.
  
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  November 14, 2023 6:00pm
Maggie Pie

Thort this worth sharing.

An ‘X’ bestie tweets….and we couldn’t agree more!

https://twitter.com/big_monkeyball/status/1724167932031238242
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November 14, 2023 4:59pm
Swifty

For those who want an insight into the mindset destroying our institutions herewith a conversation between Bret Weinstein and some students seeking to lynch him back during the Evergreen State College troubles in 2017.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nawe3lC74jI

Examples:

“If people say your words hurt them then YOU have to shut up.”

“Logic and reason have no place in solving society’s ills….”

“A diversity of voices is deliberately shut down to give an illusion of consensus.”

Honestly, really worth the brief listen.
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November 14, 2023 5:20pm
- Inandout
  
  Swifty, as the Soviets found with their satellite countries no matter how much free speech was suppressed, individual thought remained as a flicker. Also jokes about the communist regimes had the effect of ridiculing with its satire and today’s memes are similar. The internet is the one avenue that cannot be completely controlled and may well be our eventual saviour.
  
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  November 14, 2023 6:37pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Great minds… This is exactly the Weinstein commentary I was badly summarising above. https://youtu.be/9EcsO-MoltE?t=952
  
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  November 14, 2023 10:00pm
Ghost

A senior Ukrainian military officer with deep ties to the country’s intelligence services played a central role in the bombing of the Nord Stream natural gas pipelines last year, according to officials in Ukraine and elsewhere in Europe, as well as other people knowledgeable about the details of the covert operation.

Article
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November 14, 2023 6:03pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Thanks Ghost bot not paying for that.
  Would love to read but sorry. I do not even pay for NZ shit media. 🙂
  
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  November 14, 2023 6:11pm
John Loveridge

A little birdie (a relative involved in the build) tells me the carpet in the council chamber at the new Ashburton Civic Centre is a bespoke design woven especially in Singapore, and it cost $200,000.

Just the bloody carpet! If I was an Ashburton District ratepayer I’d be beside myself.
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November 14, 2023 6:12pm
- Inandout
  
  John, give a building a Maori name and the world is your oyster.
  https://www.ashburtondc.govt.nz/news/2023-news/civic-centre-to-be-known-as-te-whare-whakatere
  
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  November 14, 2023 6:40pm
  - John Loveridge
    
    What a pompous load of nonsense.
    
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    November 15, 2023 7:44am
Ghost

Meh, why aren’t they bringing in Saint Cindy of the Arden to push their drug

It’s all the rage for superhero films: Bring together several fan favorite celebrities into one cinematic event. Pfizer is following Marvel and DC’s lead, bringing together its five most recent COVID commercial celebrities for a new ad promoting its booster.

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November 14, 2023 7:18pm

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