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November 9, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 09 November 2023

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oldpark

Jewish Democrat votes with Republicans to censure Tlaib for anti-Israel remarks

Jewish Rep. Brad Schneider was one 22 Democrats to vote alongside Republicans to censure Rep. Rashida Tlaib over her anti-Israel remarks.

Tlaib was censured in a 234 to 188 vote on Tuesday night in a formal condemnation of her anti-Israel sentiment after she posted a video on X, formerly Twitter, using the controversial pro-Palestine slogan “From the river to the sea.”

“That is not coded language,” Schneider told “America’s Newsroom” Wednesday. “It was the chant, a rallying cry of the PLO in 1964, before Israel took control of the West Bank and Gaza. It was the rallying cry and still is today of Hamas. It’s calling for the destruction of the state of Israel and the murder of Jews.”

“We’re elected representatives. We have an expectation to measure our words, to be considerate and to think about what we say and when we make mistakes, to stand up and correct them, and when a colleague refuses to do that and is throwing gasoline on a fire, that needs to be countered and addressed, and the record needs to be corrected,” the Illinois Democrat continued.

Critics argue the chant supports the annihilation of the Jewish state, although Tlaib has pushed back on those accusations, claiming to support “peaceful coexistence” for both Israelis and Palestinians.

“‘From the river to the sea’ is an aspirational call for freedom, human rights and peaceful coexistence, not death, destruction or hate,” she wrote on X, formerly Twitter. “My work and advocacy has always centered in justice and dignity for all people no matter faith or ethnicity.”
Take note Chloe whats her name from Hamas NZ Green Party and the rest of you’re ilk .
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November 9, 2023 8:06am
- alphabeatrium
  
  21% of Israel is Arab by ethnicity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel). So many Arabs already live there peacefully. Rather it’s Hamas that insists on violence, and it’s the only language they seem to speak.
  
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  November 9, 2023 9:41am
  - Matt Long
    
    New Zealand after the events of the 7th October 2023, still cannot designate Hamas a terrorist organisation.
    
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    November 9, 2023 10:14am
    - David Garrett
      
      Matt Long: “New Zealand” is currently still governed by Labour. Nothing is going to happen the new government is sworn in…and I don’t see that happening anytime soon…I do hope I am wrong.
      
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      November 9, 2023 10:25am
    - Ra Henare
      
      You mean NZ should join the 7 Nations/Organisations who have declared Hamas a terrorist organisation.
      
      Interesting how much of the non western world(Ie opinions in NZ MSM) support the Palestinians quest for freedom.
      
      Yes, the attack on 7th October was horrific. but like ISIS with public executions, its all about getting world attention for their cause.
      
      It horrifies most of us in NZ and the west, but not so, in many other cultures.
      
      Most of you will know I currently live in Cambodia. IF you want to think horrific. Think The Khmer Rouge atrocities. While the world looked on and did nothing!!!!!!!!!!!
      
      If the Khmer Rouge had not pissed off the Vietnamese(who invaded Cambodia and put an end to Khmer Rouge), who knows what the country would look like today).
      
      7th October Israel doesnt come close to that regimes inhumanity.
      
      But Israels bombing(over many years) does approach the level of violence against civilians of the Khmer Rouge. IMHO.
      
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      November 9, 2023 2:37pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        So sick of terrorist apologists like you saying “Yes, the attack on 7th October was horrific, BUT…”
        
        and “Yes, israel is entitled to defend itself, BUT…”
        
        There are no buts. End of.
        
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        November 9, 2023 9:54pm
  - kowtow
    
    Over 20 Bedoiuns murdered in the terror attacks and 7 are hostages of the raping , murderous terrorists .
    
    One of the most senior Israeli soldiers to have died in combat against the terrorists in Gaza is a colonel in charge of an amoured battalion , and he’s a Druze.
    
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    November 9, 2023 11:23am
  - Ra Henare
    
    Alpha.
    I would comment that you may have fallen in to 2 traps.
    1. Believe Wikipedia on a controversial subject.
    2. All Arabs are not Palestinians.
    
    I think you may also have missed out Hezbollah, PLO, Fatah, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and of course Iran who wish to see the demise of Israel, by force if necessary
    
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    November 9, 2023 2:27pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It’s calling for the destruction of the state of Israel and the murder of Jews.”
  
  Marama Davidson knows otherwise, and assures us today that it is a “legitimate call for peace”
  
  https://waateanews.com/2023/11/09/davidson-refuses-to-water-down-river-to-sea-chant/
  
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  November 9, 2023 11:16am
  - nathie
    
    From the article:
    
    “Who’s getting slaughtered right now, absolutely carpet-bombed and it is a genocide and the Greens will always, always stand against injustice and oppression,” Ms Davidson says.
    
    That’s fine but where is the call from the Greens against the injustice and oppression by Hamas?
    
    Where is the call from the Greens against the injustice and oppression by Hezbolla?
    
    Where is the call from the Greens against the injustice and oppression by Iran which is destabalising the Middle East by funding terrorism, has a nuclear weapons programme and oppresses its own citizens especially women?
    
    Tumbleweeds!
    
    Marama (& the Greens) you are being deceitful!
    
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    November 9, 2023 12:26pm
    - Positan
      
      Deeply intrenched and systemic DECEIT !!!
      But then, what would you expect from a largely brainless, non-discerning, communist-sympathising “organisation”?
      
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      November 9, 2023 12:51pm
    - kowtow
      
      How can they ignore the mass rape , torture and murder of the 7 Oct attacks .
      Instigated by the evil regime in Tehran.
      
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      November 9, 2023 3:22pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Well, except for that one time when Golriz Gahraman defended a genocidal mass killer.
      
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      November 9, 2023 9:56pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    Interesting that the Hamas declaration is for removal of the Zionists(not Jews!!!!!).
    
    One presumes that includes the 21% arab population of Israel.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel
    
    If they killed or removed all the Jews then Israel would still exist as 2.5 Israelis are NOT Jews.
    
    Interesting is that the Israeli doctrine is similiar in that it wants to Remove all the Palestinians to the Sinai.
    According to Washington Post
    
    The document proposes moving Gaza’s civilian population to tent cities in northern Sinai, then building permanent cities and an undefined humanitarian corridor. A security zone would be established inside Israel to block the displaced Palestinians from entering. The report did not say what would become of Gaza once its population is cleared out.
    
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    November 9, 2023 5:31pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      ‘Remove all Palestinians to the Sinai’
      Its noticeable you didnt link to the Wapo article
      Then people would see it was just a concept paper and Israel has dismissed the idea
      Egypt wont let them through anyway- they hate Hamas and dont want the feral terrorist loving Gazans in their country at all.
      
      You’re a good propagandist for Hamas though.
      You should be proud
      //
      
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      November 9, 2023 6:07pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        I am certainly proud to provide rational thinking about the whole terrible mess.
        
        Unlike some who are rabidly one eyed with their emotions somewhat out of control.
        
        Yawn.
        Once again, for those who are slow on comprehension. I am neither for or against Israelis or Palestinians. Just an interested observer.
        
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        November 9, 2023 7:58pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      I suggest you have fallen into 2 traps.
      
      1. An embarrassing logic failure by suggesting that because there are also arabs in Israel, calling for the destruction of Israel is somehow not calling for the death of Jews.
      
      2. Believing anything you read in the Washington post.
      
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      November 9, 2023 10:00pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Also relevant today: Journalists or Jihadists? Employees of American news agencies were embedded in plainclothes with Hamas during Oct 7 massacre
  
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  November 9, 2023 2:57pm
BarryB

Oh NO – a Ukrainian general says that the stalemate in the war is a likely outcome.
As Ive said all along the only losers of the war are the Ukrainian people. Their country is wrecked.
The Ukrainian leaders should have recognised that the Russian speaking part of the Ukraine never wanted to be part of the country and they should have let them go do their own thing.
The next thing after a stalemate is either a loss or go to negotiations.
Based on past behaviour the idiots will not talk and then cause even more damage to the country. If they do this I expect they will end up either at the International court – or more likely hung in the streets by very pissed off locals.
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November 9, 2023 8:12am
- Blackbob
  
  The Russian speaking Ukrainian folk voted for independence from Russia, even in Crimea. What came afterwards was engineered by Russia to create the pretext for invading Ukraine, which they always intended to do, and now they’ve done that 3 times in the last 15 years. The Ukrainians didn’t help it though by banning Russian language in schools etc. but after what the Russians and Soviets have done to Ukraine over the centuries I can understand why.
  
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  November 9, 2023 9:40am
  - Clown
    
    I was born in Crimea and this is absolute BS. Crimea was historically part of Russia since imperial times and was gifted to Ukraine as a token gesture during USSR era. The people there always had a severe dislike for Ukraine who was always trying to push their language on us since 1990s and treating Crimeans as second class citizens. Everybody in Crimea rejoiced when Russia reclaimed its historical lands which was gifted to Ukraine by corrupt Ukrainian Khrushchev in the 1950’s. I suggest you stop spreading misinformation or getting your news from CNN/BBC
    
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    November 9, 2023 11:17am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Bang on. I too sailed with a full crew from Sevastapol who overnight found they were Ukrainian.
      Crimea was always Russian at least in recent history.
      
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      November 9, 2023 11:23am
    - kowtow
      
      Are you a Tatar .
      
      Here was me thinking it was Turkic before the Ivans and the ethnic cleansing they engaged in as recently as the 1940’s.
      
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      November 9, 2023 11:27am
    - Blackbob
      
      Crimea voted for Independence along with the rest of Ukraine in the original referendum, the vote post the Russian 2014 annexation doesn’t really matter as it’s so obviously illegitimate. I suggest you look at historical record rather than CNN/BBC/Rosnet etc.
      
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      November 9, 2023 11:30am
    - David Garrett
      
      Clown: That is very interesting…certainly gives me a much better perspective on the Russia – Ukraine war…sorry “Special Military Action”…couldn’t resist that wee jab.
      
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      November 9, 2023 12:13pm
- Cinematic
  
  Russia has achieved basically nothing at the cost of tens of thousands of Russian lives and setting their economy back decades. Not the best outcome for Putin and co. Not yet a stalemate but certainly Russia has proven itself to be not half the force many thought.
  
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  November 9, 2023 9:48am
  - kowtow
    
    Peking will be watching this very carefully .
    
    Vast tracks of the Far East of what is currently considered ‘Russia” was actually Imperial Chinese.
    
    They’ll want it back .
    
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    November 9, 2023 11:50am
    - Jack5
      
      I don’t know about “vast tracts” of Russia’s Far East.
      
      Mongolians swept through Siberia from time to time, and Mongolian racial cousins lived in many of the regions of Siberia, next to those regions of Turkic peoples.
      
      Between the two world wars, the Red Army stopped China from taking over outer Mongolia – and kept Japan from moving north of Manchuria.
      
      Genghis Khan and his immediate descendants were Mongolian rather than Chinese.
      
      China would probably be happy enough while raw materials flow south from Siberia.
      
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      November 9, 2023 6:48pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    So you think that the devastation of Ukraine (infrastructure) is achieving nothing?
    
    Interesting perspective.
    
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    November 9, 2023 9:54pm
- Lance
  
  Soooooooooooooooooooooooo
  You are saying Putin will be happy with seeding just those parts of Ukraine and will never again invade the rest?
  I call bullshit on that
  
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  November 9, 2023 9:51am
- Burtland
  
  “72hours to Kiev” – what a monumental Russian failure – who’s the idiot
  
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  November 9, 2023 10:20am
- David Garrett
  
  Hanged in the streets my boy…
  
  “Pictures are hung; men are hanged” as the old reminder goes.
  
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  November 9, 2023 10:26am
  - ISeeRed
    
    Men can be hung. Well, some. (Sorry.)
    
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    November 10, 2023 9:04pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Drones have neutered most conventional weapons (tanks, APCs/IFVs, most artillery), leaving only long range 30km+ missiles and glide bombs + deeply entrenched infantry hiding 99.9% of the time as the effective no-mans-land for heavy equipment grows to 20km wide.
  
  Infantry can mostly only venture out after dark to re-provision etc. And even the safety of night is gradually disappearing due to night vision cameras on newer drones as well as AI autonomous targeting on some drones coming into service.
  
  This is a WW1 style trench warfare stalemate, which history teaches can only be overcome with heavy saturation bombardment of entrenched infantry. Neither Ukraine nor Russia currently have enough artillery or bombs to do this.
  
  But Russia is rapidly scaling up production of heavy glide bombs that can be launched from 70km at altitude out of range of Ukrainian missiles. Over long term that ramp up could wreck Ukraine unless they attain some means to match them – they likely need 100’s of thousands of them to clear Russian defensive lines if they are to have a chance of taking back Crimea.
  
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  November 9, 2023 11:15am
  - BarryB
    
    I think that all the various comments prove is that there are as many opinions as there are people.
    
    Fact remains that the biggest lowers are and will be the Ukrainian people.
    
    The only real thing learnt from the conflict is that drones are bloody handy things.
    
    As for loss of lives – the Ukrainians are loosing young males who would have been useful in a peaceful society.
    The Russians are predominantly emptying their prisons.
    
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    November 9, 2023 1:11pm
    - kowtow
      
      While they are using ex prisoners as shock troops / cannon fodder is there evidence you can cite to substantiate the claim that they are the “predominant” casualties.
      
      And remember prisoners have families too .
      It is the families , of all casualties , who will eventually be the force to end Putin’s madness .
      Hopefully.
      
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      November 9, 2023 3:26pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      Russian govt have conscripted quarter of a million and are now coercing sign up via various menaces including for anyone who has debts (many created as a result of economic damage done by war and sanctions).
      
      The biggest losers are the dead on both sides and their families, most are poor ethnic minorities from far flung regions of Russian federation that Muscovites give no shits about. And it’s pretty clear there are a lot more of them than Ukrainians dying – because the Ukrainians actually care about their troops and don’t do pointless ‘meat wave’ assaults’ with officers shooting any who refuse or attempt to retreat
      
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      November 9, 2023 4:42pm
- BananaLlama
  
  It was over the moment Russia crushed that NATO led offensive both sides are just wasting good lives for nothing now.
  
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  November 9, 2023 1:32pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The Simpsons have stopped showing Homer choking Bart as “times have changed”
The un-named author, why? Someone was offended and complained.
Get a life you snowflake!

https://www.thepoliticalglobe.com/the-simpsons-alters-course-ends-homers-strangling-of-bart-in-nod-to-changing-times/?
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November 9, 2023 8:19am
- cmm
  
  Homer will soon be putting on leggings and having kale smoothies after his yoga sessions.
  
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  November 9, 2023 8:26am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Cmm,
    
    I’m pretty sure that the legendary everyman has already done that.
    A true example to us all !
    
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    November 9, 2023 9:14am
- Maggie Pie
  
  “The decision comes as part of an attempt by the creators
  to keep up with modern times and societal norms.”
  
  Surprised they don’t show Homer beating the sh*t out of Bart or stuffing wet-wipes in his mouth in that case.
  
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  November 9, 2023 8:28am
  - Local Miller
    
    Fortunately the writers aren’t NZ born, otherwise you could possibly see this.
    
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    November 9, 2023 8:30am
- Jade Warrior
  
  The Simpsons should have been canned a long time ago. Almost every episode of the Simpsons post season 14 is just a pale, lazy imitation of what has gone before.
  
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  November 9, 2023 8:36am
  - sirknz
    
    I suspect that you may have already read this:
    
    https://deadhomersociety.wordpress.com/
    
    An interesting read if you haven’t.
    
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    November 9, 2023 10:07am
- lifesgood
  
  Why do so many buckle to these snowflakes? It’s pathetic, just tell them to FO.
  
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  November 9, 2023 8:46am
- ClanMcleod
  
  They’ll have to delete The Black Knight scene from ‘Monty Python and the Holy Grail’ next.
  
  “Tis but a flesh wound!”
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmInkxbvlCs
  
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  November 9, 2023 8:54am
  - sirknz
    
    But only because they used the word ‘Black’ for the antagonist in the scene.
    
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    November 9, 2023 10:08am
Chuck Bird

This one is not premium. It looks to me that Twyford is happy to tell Israel what to do but not criticise what Palestinians do like gang rape and cutting babies heads off. The Jew haters boo him off the stage and support Chloe’s call to eliminate Israel.

Civil discussion on Israel Hamas war vital, says Labour MP Phil Twyford

It is not my place to tell Palestinians how to fight their corner, and I can understand the rage and desperation they feel after 75 years of dispossession. But somehow we have to find a way to have these conversations.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/civil-discussion-on-israel-hamas-war-vital-phil-twyford/RFVLQI46TZA6DDQEZQKQ2ZDWRI/
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November 9, 2023 8:20am
- cmm
  
  Pretty challenging to have a conversation when someone doesn’t want to talk.
  
  And it is not “we” that need to find that. They do.
  
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  November 9, 2023 8:24am
- Local Miller
  
  What 75 years of dispossession? You need to read the history of this conflict, and not the leftist version.
  
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  November 9, 2023 8:32am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Do not ask me. Ask Twyford.
    
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    November 9, 2023 8:49am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Use Quotation Marks to avoid confusion
      
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      November 9, 2023 8:59am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        Good point.
        
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        November 9, 2023 9:01am
    - Local Miller
      
      Sorry, I seldom go to the NZH to read articles like this, so missed that you were quoting Twyford/the article. As someone else said, use quotes 🙂
      
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      November 9, 2023 9:10am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Local Miller – can you give me a definitive link? It’s a conflict I’ve been unable to figure out. There’s plenty of opposing views. I’d like to understand the conflict better. Genuine request.
    
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    November 9, 2023 8:57am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Clan,
      Could whoever gave you a downtick please tell us why?
      How dare you try to understand !
      
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      November 9, 2023 9:18am
      - Local Miller
        
        The phantom down ticker has returned. Quite probably Mikey who likes to keep track of posts he’s read by down ticking them. Obviously struggles with remembering what he’s read.
        Actually to some extent a 3rd “I’ve read this” button isn’t a bad idea, one that’s only visible to the logged on account that ticked it. I do find it a pain wading through old posts to find the one’s I’ve not read yet. The only indicator is that where you’ve ticked the button’s are greyed out.
        While I’m on the subject of buttons, what’s with the down tick button and counter being red, but the tick being green. Just another lazy code monkey?
        
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        November 9, 2023 10:56am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Clan,
        There is always the possibility that the motivation for the current situation is not a historical one.
        
        Almost every conflict, of this century especially, seems to be for the purpose of accumulating wealth.
        
        Ideology is merely the blue touch paper.
        
        Would this conflict be any different ?
        
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        November 9, 2023 11:23am
    - Local Miller
      
      Probably not, because that’s not how I’ve learned about the history of the conflict. I’ve been following this since my school days, particularly since I had an excellent history teacher back in school in SA, in the equivalent of NZ Year 9. So from the mid 1970’s roughly the past 50 odd years.
      Now most of that information is available on the internet, you just need to search and scan what’s out there.
      
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      November 9, 2023 9:20am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Local Miller – the problem is there is bias everywhere. I’ve tried to figure it out. I get back as far as the Sykes Picot agreement and give up. It’s a tragic disaster that seems to be without a solution.
        
        My thing has always been, those who want to fight, fill your boots. But don’t use civilians as a weapon against those you want to destroy. I don’t care which side you’re on.
        
        I’ve seen the impacts on innocent people first hand and I detest those responsible.
        
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        November 9, 2023 9:46am
      - Master Mariner
        
        @Clan, Google Yitzak Rabin and Oslo accords for a recent history.
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords
        
        Otherwise reccommend reading “Seven pillars of Wisdom” for a general mindset of Arab/Bedouin.
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Pillars_of_Wisdom
        
        Its all rather “Murky”, As you said with an “emotional” media response. You need to see through this with clear insights.
        
        Its the “bigger” picture I’m more concerned with.
        
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        November 9, 2023 10:32am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        There are several good video documentaries on Youtube on the history of the conflict. Example:
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cU8B7FXX6g&t=43s&ab_channel=WarStories
        
        “The Entire Israeli-Palestine Conflict Explained | Secret Wars Uncovered | War Stories”
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wo2TLlMhiw&ab_channel=CrashCourse
        
        “Conflict in Israel and Palestine through 2015: Crash Course World History”
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXfuqUhzESg&t=16s&ab_channel=FreeDocumentary-History
        
        “How Britain Started the Arab-Israeli Conflict | Free Documentary History”
        
        ….. I would recommend avoiding any material produced in the last month.
        
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        November 9, 2023 10:42am
    - Nickc2
      
      IMO, it’s important that we NZers understand this conflict because if John Tamihere, Willie Jackson, Marama Davidson, and Chloe Swarbrick have their way, you can swap the title Hamas for Maori and Israelies for the rest of us.
      
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      November 9, 2023 9:22am
      - Tom Hunter
        
        Exactly, This is what de-colonisation means
        
        A quote from Quillette magazine:
        
        Real decolonization is a physical process. It is about removing bodies from a place.
        
        I suppose you could extend some good will and assume they prefer those bodies to be alive, but clearly there are groups who couldn’t care either way.
        
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        November 9, 2023 10:35am
    - kowtow
      
      Clan
      
      Get your hands on a copy of James Michener’s The Source .
      
      Like all his books , excellent .
      
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      November 9, 2023 11:06am
      - krazykiwi
        
        Great book. Must re-read sometime
        
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        November 9, 2023 1:40pm
  - David Garrett
    
    Local: I have “read the history of the conflict”, at least since the end of WW I.
    
    While it in now way justifies the actions of Hamas, if you understood what you claim to, you would know that the Palestinians – or at least tens of thousand of them – were indeed “dispossessed” prior to and following the establishment of the state of Israel. Prior to WW I, Jews and Palestinians apparently lived together in harmony for the most part.
    
    Here’s a wee clue: When the British took over the mandate over Palestine – as it then was – the Arabs outnumbered the Jews 10:1. Now it is very much the other way around.
    
    The notion that the Jews took over an “empty country” is a complete myth. I suggest you start with some excellent docos available on Youtube, and then do some reading.
    
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    November 9, 2023 10:33am
    - Local Miller
      
      I’m aware of the Arab/Jew ratios back in 1914 and how these have changed over time and that the country wasn’t empty. However it was sparsely populated and there was no such thing as a Palestinian, and many of the residents were nomadic.
      
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      November 9, 2023 11:05am
      - David Garrett
        
        Wrong…the major cities, Haifa, Tel Aviv, Gaza, Beersheba and of course Jerusalem were large, and their populations were largely people who were Palestinian…they were Palestinian for two reasons: the area was known as Palestine, even during the long perold of the Ottoman empire, and secondly the states of Jordan Syria and Lebananon – where many commenters here say the “Palestinians” belong – didn’t exist prior to WW I.
        
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        November 9, 2023 11:59am
  - Ra Henare
    
    Local, yep and perhaps you need to do some research on Palestine.
    The piece of dirt that was occupied 9,000 years ago!
    
    Makes the Maori occupation of 1000 odd years look fairly recent.
    
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    November 9, 2023 2:41pm
- kowtow
  
  How utterly pathetic .
  
  He seems to be smarting from the jeering and he makes an excuse for the particpants who did.
  
  However again we learn nothing.
  
  Who were the two men who actually stopped his speech and escorted him off the stage .
  
  Why was it necessary for a large posse of police to surround and escort him off the field .
  
  Who was letting off firecrackers near him and why .
  
  He can b/s all he likes about international law or any law for that matter but unless people are willing to live by democratic and civil means and not by the tenets of a feudal desert war lord then we’re f@#ked .
  
  The irony in this particular instance is the very people who are not prepared to have a civil discourse , as he forlornly begs are the very people that the Left are increasingly bringing into the west , to escape the carnage that their ideology has blighted their own region with and which will and does now begin to do the same domestically.
  
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  November 9, 2023 8:37am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Its interesting watching the Anti-semitic pro Hamas protesters and those supporting Israel.
  The former are full of violence and hatred “Gas the Jews”. The latter show dignity respect and are peaceful. Witness the women with pushchairs each bearing a photo of child or baby held hostage by Hamas.
  
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  November 9, 2023 8:59am
  - 7kiwi11
    
    I have no skin in the game but I find it quite disturbing to be honest. The Rabid Green MPs, vandalism of Jewish owned properties and worst of all the mobs on the street burning the Israeli flags.
    
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    November 9, 2023 9:06am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      it would be a mistake to think you have no skin in the game. We all have skin in the game.
      
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      November 9, 2023 10:23pm
  - G152
    
    Watching Aljazeer I found a very disturbing thing.
    Learned yonks ago that the blood flow indicates the position of accident victims and a lot of the ‘child victims’ featured on that media there is one kid who has no congealed blood and a disturbing area or areas of wiped blood.
    And she has been presented on that show with a number of different ‘wipe patterns’…
    
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    November 9, 2023 10:02am
    - Bloody Dago
      
      Hamas has been staging these hospital arrival scenes for jonks, MSM gobble it up like pigs at the trough..
      
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      November 9, 2023 2:04pm
  - kowtow
    
    UK Daily Mail reporting a vigil in England for the Israeis murdered by the Hamas terror attack drowned out by hecklers shouting “Free Palestine”
    
    Note too a Jewish gentleman was murdered at a Los Angeles pro terror event.
    
    A Jewish woman stbeed in the stomach In France.
    
    All across Europe swastikas and Star of David graffiti . We had a similar thing in Auckland .
    
    There are some extremely dangerous and hostile actors in this world wide anti semiticism .
    
    A huge amount of it incited and directed by so called religious men.
    
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    November 9, 2023 10:28am
- rouppe
  
  Regarding “dispossession”, some of these areas of history are interesting.
  
  Where did Jesus Christ live? Nazareth.
  Where is Nazareth? In the north of what we now call Israel.
  Jesus Christ was called “King of the Jews”.
  When did Jesus Christ live? Well, at the least we can say any time after he died is called AD.
  
  When did Islam begin? 610 AD.
  
  Now I now that Palestinian does not equate to Islam, though that seems to be the situation now.
  
  So who is the “displaced” here?
  
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  November 9, 2023 12:45pm
  - Dave
    
    Indeed. Asia Minor was the centre of Roman Christianity, plus many Christians in North Africa.
    
    One might further note that in the aftermath of WW2 (ie, immediately before the first Arab-Israeli war) and various border ‘rectifications’, there were millions of refugees and displaced people throughout Europe. Fortunately, their descendants have largely given up on returning ‘home’ or reclaiming what is now somebody else’s home.
    
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    November 9, 2023 1:49pm
    - kowtow
      
      Ten million Germans were displacedfrom their ancient homelands in 1945 across eastern and central Europe . One million are estimated to have died.
      
      The Russians occupy , what was a part of Eastern Prussia on the Baltic coast, Kaliningrad .
      
      The Greeks were cleansed out of Asia Minor in the 1920’s when they lost a war with Turkey . Turkey , once very diverse continues to become very Turkish . ( While Greece and Cyprus become very “diverse”) They also illegally occupy northern Cyprus.
      
      Yet , no comment from all these types who want decolonisation and/ or freedom for their particular cause.
      
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      November 9, 2023 2:50pm
      - Jack5
        
        “These types” don’t give a bugger about Armenians, either.
        
        Armenians are getting another work-over from Muslims right now.
        
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        November 9, 2023 4:56pm
cmm

Excuses are often made that very few Gazans support Hamas so it is unfair etc to inflict harm on Gazans while dealing to Hamas.

Well here is a poll analysis from earlier this year:
* Half agreed with the statement “Hamas should stop calling for Israel’s destruction, and instead accept a permanent two-state solution based on the 1967 borders.”.
* About 75% support various Jihadi organisations.
* 57% support Hamas, but, interestingly 70%would prefer Palestinian Authority administration.

The last one is especially interesting. It seems they would prefer non-Hamas to provide the government function, but still want Hamas there for their terrorist actions (I refuse to call them military actions).

There is also a nugget in there that, in July this year, 65% of Gazans were expecting a large military conflict within the next few months. So the Gazans knew this was coming. It is surprising that Israeli intelligence missed that.

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah

Of course the usual caveats should apply when looking at polls, especially those conducted in low-trust situations such as Gaza where saying the wrong thing to the wrong person could easily get you executed as an “Israeli spy”.
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November 9, 2023 8:22am
Cassandra

An article on Newsroom (✝️) accuses opponents of Maori preference of wanting a referendum on the Treaty. The straw man. The referendum is to decide the principle of the Treaty, a quite different matter. The author is Buddy Mikaere. Well worth avoiding. It’d be really good to have a sensible debate on all this. ACT’s draft principles would establish once and for all that we are all to be equal.
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November 9, 2023 8:24am
- MCōs
  
  Fine words except some people are more equal than others.
  Depending on where you live in NZ you don’t have equal access to medical treatment, or quality of education, for example, to other areas.
  
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  November 9, 2023 10:03am
  - Matt Long
    
    If you live rurally, for example?
    
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    November 9, 2023 10:38am
    - MCōs
      
      Not necessarily
      
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      November 9, 2023 11:36am
  - Burtland
    
    exactly
    
    so now we not only have unequal access by region but by race as well …
    
    what we actually require is equal access by need
    
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    November 9, 2023 10:46am
  - rouppe
    
    But that’s to do with where you live, not your race.
    
    Does a white person who lives in Te Kaha have better access to any of that stuff than a Maori person living next door? No.
    
    Does a white person living in Havelock North have better access to any of that stuff than a Maori person living next door? No.
    
    So it’s nothing to do with race. It’s where you live.
    
    Do more Maori live in Te Kaha than in Havelock North? Probably. But that’s a choice.
    
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    November 9, 2023 2:09pm
    - MCōs
      
      Maybe, but are we all equal?
      People don’t have a choice where they live if they ain’t got the do re me.
      
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      November 9, 2023 2:52pm
      - rouppe
        
        My parents arrived from war ravaged Europe in ’50. With a suitcase and 10 quid. Got a job at the FRI in Rotorua. Bought a house. Had 4 kids.
        
        All 4 kids left Rotorua. Nursing school. Woodsman school. Vet. And me, early computer science. When I left uni I had a few hundred bucks, went to Wellington for a job. Developed (no pun intended) a career. Bought a house. Had a kid. Who is going to leave Wellington for university elsewhere.
        
        If you ain’t got the do re me, do something about it. If you don’t want to do that, don’t bitch to me about what you ain’t got.
        
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        November 9, 2023 5:27pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      The Medical Centre in Te Kaha is way better resourced than its Havelock North equivalent. The nearest hospital is in Tauranga. By contrast, Hastings Hospital in 10 minutes down the road.
      
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      November 9, 2023 6:58pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  Just like the Treaty of Waitangi did!
  
  “Now we are one people” – who knew? Very few, apparently.
  
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  November 10, 2023 1:24am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump won’t win in a landslide? Look at the numbers.
Media also say Biden is neck in neck with Trump – bullshit.

https://twitter.com/PU28453638/status/1720476629800026507?
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November 9, 2023 8:25am
- All_on_Red
  
  Sorry Steve but National Polls are meaningless.
  Heres a Bellweather result for you and gives an insight into how the Democrats are going to run.
  Virginia has a very capable Governor in Youngkin but they just lost control of both the State Senate and House, because the Democrats ran on this message;
  “If you turn the state over to the “MAGA Republicans,” they’re going to outlaw abortion.” And it worked. (AP)
  https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2023/11/08/what-went-wrong-in-virginia-one-word-n590855
  
  Look to see this duplicated in the Swing States.
  I still think Trump would lose and that the GOP needs De Santis
  
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  November 9, 2023 8:40am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    We will see what happens.
    
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    November 9, 2023 9:21am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Looks like the abortion debate is more important than recovering the Country.
    Democrats do a lot of this. Unfortunately people take the bait.
    
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    November 9, 2023 10:12am
  - Matt Long
    
    De Santis appears more anti abortion than Trump to me.
    
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    November 9, 2023 10:41am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Does it matter?
      
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      November 9, 2023 6:47pm
mandk

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2023/11/european-scientists-certain-this-year-will-be-warmest-in-125-000-years.html

Makes you wonder what all those proto-hominids were doing to create all that global warming back then.

Any ideas?
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November 9, 2023 8:30am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Farming herds of mammoths?
  
  Burning the Saharan forest?
  
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  November 9, 2023 10:49am
- Burtland
  
  locally they burnt all the forests trying to catch a feed of moa – carbon in the ice records from the antarctic are suggesting this.
  
  Incidentally the climate models dont include this smoke effect nor can they include any other effects that we might not know about during that 125,000 years that you allude to.
  
  the science is settled ….
  
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  November 9, 2023 11:02am
- NZer In Exile
  
  That whole newshub article is jammed packed full of BS and playing silly buggers with dates and stats. They also quote Michael Mann of the pathetic “hockey stick” saga (you’ll need to get an analysis on that from outside the woke filter bubble to get to the bottom of it). WUWT and No Tricks Zone are pretty good clearing houses for serious climate analysis from outside the woke grifter bubble.
  
  “”The record was broken by 0.4 degrees Celsius, which is a huge margin,” said C3S Deputy Director Samantha Burgess, who described the October temperature anomaly as “very extreme”.”
  
  There is nothing unprecedented about that if you look at the ancient climate proxy record (ice cores, tree rings, tree level remains on mountains, lake bed sediments, iceberg drop stones on the ocean floor etc etc).
  
  125,000 years ago was the integlacial period prior to the one we are in now. Hippos were swimming in the Thames at that time. Any Hippos in places in the world that are not hot (apart from Zoos with nice heated pools)???? There is plenty of evidence aside from this that The Eemian (the last interglacial I speak of) was significantly warmer than the one we are now in. And, in that warm interglacial, the world did not burn up because of methane released from the permafrost, or “acid” (actually slightly less alkaline) oceans or any other made up tipping point hypothesis. Oh and the polar bears were around then and did not get wiped out, despite much less ice in the arctic back then.
  
  The trouble is so much of this type of BS is pumped out by the lying media and paid narrative-turd-polishers that Mr & Mrs Normie who have never bothered to seriously dig into any of this just believe it or are simply overwhelmed but “suspect” it’s BS. However, they just go along with it like they do with every other insane thing that is currently destroying our once pretty good civilisation.
  
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  November 9, 2023 11:33am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    I wish it was warmer here this week
    
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    November 9, 2023 7:00pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

“I’ve never sent money to a politician but if Trump is convicted I’m sending him the max” … as an FU.”

https://www.rvmnews.com/2023/11/tucker-ukraine-biden-coming-to-an-end-if-they-convict-trump-im-donating-videos/?
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November 9, 2023 8:38am
Maggie Pie

“I wonder if Auckland Central voters knew that when they were voting for
Chloe Sworebrick they were actually electing the MP-for-Gaza”

WATCH
https://twitter.com/2ETEKA/status/1722153555224940658

Jewish people in NZ have good reason to be locking their doors 🙁
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November 9, 2023 8:38am
- cmm
  
  Bigger question: do the Auckland voters care?
  
  Given the way the Greens have acted in the past it was pretty obvious to anyone what they would do. This can’t really be a shock to anyone.
  
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  November 9, 2023 8:47am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    On the Shore we don’t give a continental about Chloe, or the inner city dwellers. They are a strange breed in those water front apartments and high rise flats.
    
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    November 9, 2023 9:26am
    - Local Miller
      
      Has it ever occurred to anyone that “high rise flats” is an oxymoron?
      
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      November 9, 2023 9:35am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        OK, high rise apartments.
        
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        November 9, 2023 10:16am
      - rouppe
        
        Well… “Flat” has no relationship with “altitude”.
        
        You could climb several thousand metres and onto “flats”, so called because they are level, no matter how high they are…
        
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        November 9, 2023 2:03pm
- alex Masterley
  
  The “…Toxic Ewok…”
  Love it.
  
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  November 9, 2023 9:03am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Actually I think we should rename Swarbrick as the MP for Hamas.
  
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  November 9, 2023 10:46am
  - kowtow
    
    or member for pogrom.
    
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    November 9, 2023 12:31pm
campit

Journalist Caitlin Johnstone has published a handy list of the Ten Dumbest Things We’re Being Asked To Believe About Israel’s War On Gaza.

1. That Israel had no idea what Hamas was up to prior to October 7, but ever since October 7 has known about every hospital, mosque, school, refugee camp and water tower that Hamas is hiding in.

2. That the blame for all of the deaths caused by Israeli weapons launched by Israel rests solely on Hamas.

3. That Hamas is using “human shields” meaning Hamas bases are hidden amidst civilian populations – yet Israel is managing to kill thousands of civilians without doing any meaningful damage to Hamas.

4. That it would be perfectly fine to murder children by the thousands even if they were being used as “human shields” – as though resolving a hostage situation by mowing down thousands of child hostages would be regarded as reasonable and acceptable by the public if it happened in our own country.

5. That it is only by pure coincidence that Israel bombing “Hamas targets” in civilian infrastructure and residential buildings just so happens to look exactly the same as what you’d expect to see if Israel was simply bombing civilian infrastructure and residential buildings and lying about its reasons for doing so.

6. That satellite images of entire neighborhoods reduced to rubble in Gaza have been caused by “precision strikes” directed solely at Hamas and have been carried out with the greatest of care for human life, despite Israeli officials openly saying that “the emphasis is on damage and not on accuracy” in this assault and that “Gaza will eventually turn into a city of tents; there will be no buildings.”

7. That this bombing campaign has anything to do with freeing Israeli hostages – as though the bombing campaign itself has not killed dozens of hostages, and as though anyone believes Israel would stop bombing Gaza after the hostages are returned.

8. That the only reason anyone could possibly oppose the detonation of thousands of bombs on an open air prison full of children would be if they had very strong and hateful opinions toward the members of the religion of Judaism.

9. That Hamas attacked Israel entirely out of the blue and completely unprovoked, solely because they are evil and hate Jews.

10. That Washington is powerless to stop this genocide that it is directly funding and supplying.

In relation to the precision bombing claim, you can see for yourself that entire neighborhoods are being destroyed.
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November 9, 2023 8:38am
- Taieri
  
  Journalist
  ———
  
  Journalist? or “Journalist”?
  
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  November 9, 2023 9:44am
- Jack5
  
  Caitlin Johnstone writes stuff for Putin’s “RT”. There’s a link below to one of her articles.
  
  Regardless, a claim that the Israelis are “carpet bombing” rather than precision bombing is ludicrous.
  
  Gaza is just 12km wide, and covers about 360 sq km. On this live about 2 million people.
  
  If the Israelis had been carpet bombing (area bombing), there would be at least half a million dead by now.
  
  Poster campit claims that Israelis’ attack is “without doing any meaningful damage to Hamas”.
  
  Not even Al Jazeera thinks that.
  
  Controversial Caitlin’s article:
  
  https://www.rt.com/news/553523-us-lying-public-russia/
  
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  November 9, 2023 10:00am
  - Matt Long
    
    No damage to Hamas, have they not being able to find people with Hamas uniforms amongst the casualties?
    Or carrying big signs that say; Allahu Akbar, I am Hamas, cause I’m pretty sure that’s what terrorists hiding in a civilian population do.
    
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    November 9, 2023 10:57am
  - Matt Long
    
    Interesting that Russia has canned the conventional arms treaty that it had signed up to in the 90s, plus the ban on nuclear weapons testing, and has aligned itself with Iran in the Middle East.
    I guess Russia must be the good guys in today’s world, and treaties can be withdrawn from at will.
    
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    November 9, 2023 11:04am
- Burtland
  
  The Dumbest Thing We’re Being Asked To Believe About Hamas’s War On Israel
  
  … that there would be no consequences from poking the bear and hiding behind civilians
  
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  November 9, 2023 11:11am
- thirteenstars
  
  Was 9/11 an inside job? Did the US land men on the moon in 1969? Did FDR know Pearl Harbor was about to be attacked? Do a cabal of Jews control the world financial system?
  
  Standing by…
  
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  November 9, 2023 11:35am
  - David Garrett
    
    Thirteen: apropos of your comment about the moon landings, try and get hold of an excellent full length doco made about 15 years ago by Ron Howard called “In the shadow of the moon”, which is the story of the Apollo program. At the very end, many of the 12 men who walked on the moon between 1969 and ’72 are asked what they say to people who claim it was all faked.
    
    The best answer for me was from a Texan called Charlie Duke who says (trying to phonecize his speech):
    
    “Well , Ah say this…We went to the moon narn tarmes…Why the hell did we fake it narn tarmes…if we faked it?”
    
    Game set and match surely. (And of course Russians were monitoring their every move. The launches and splashdowns are documented on film. If Apollos 10-17 weren’t going to the moon, they would have had to be circling the earth for whatever time it was supposedly taking them to go to the moon and back, and the Russians would have gleefully released proof of them doing that)
    
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    November 9, 2023 12:35pm
    - thirteenstars
      
      Conspiracy theorists are a rapidly moving target. Demolish one argument and they jump to another unrelated moronry. Whack-a-mole.
      
      Now we have another one, newly born: how could Israel have not known? which mimics the same argument about 9/11.
      
      All bureaucracies eventually screw up big time. But no, it must be a nefarious plan.
      
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      November 9, 2023 12:43pm
  - kowtow
    
    The Channel Dash is another really big intelligence f up.
    
    According to the conspiracy theorists then Churchill was actually a Nazi plant .
    
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    November 9, 2023 2:00pm
    - RichardX
      
      Reid repeatedly claimed Hitler was a British agent.
      
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      November 9, 2023 7:59pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  1. They may have had that info but they didn’t exactly have cause to bomb them did they?
  2. No Hamas terrorist activity – no Israel bombs. Not hard. Obviously Israel can’t indiscriminately bomb Gaza but, despite what you’re saying, this doesn’t seem to be the case – this should be reviewed by third party (not UN) investigators.
  3. Human shields are objective fact and the claim Israel is doing no damage to Hamas is completely unproven.
  4. Hamas are not inert, they are still actively involved in attacking Israel. The deaths of the children is an absolute tragedy but Israel should not have to trade their children for Gaza’s (instead, Hamas could just stop trying to murder Jews). Also, it’s clearly not murder if the attacks are valid military targets – which again should be looked at by third party (non UN) investigators.
  5. ??? Hamas uses infrastructure as cover. This again is objective fact.
  6. This is a tragedy and again should be looked into by third party (not UN) investigators.
  7. It’s bombing in spite of the hostages to stop further terrorist attacks. Who actually believes it’s about retrieving the hostages?
  8. Not at all, I am very opposed against what is happening. The argument is what other realistic options are there? Also – not a prison. Also – their birth rate is basically to double every generation so it’s not fair to blame Israel for the large numbers of children being there.
  9. It wasn’t out of the blue but yes, their charter explicitly states that they want to wipe out the Jews. Again, that’s objectively true.
  10. Again, objectively not a genocide.
  
  Also – those photos actually show really impressive large scale precision bombing. Yes, they took out large areas but it looks very specifically targeted.
  
  My turn – that all the “victims” of Israel’s bombing are innocent civilians and that all of the damage has been done by Israel and none have been from Hamas own weapons. Both claims are provably fake.
  
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  November 9, 2023 12:08pm
- Ghost
  
  9. Wasn’t out of the blue. IDF soldiers were passing on intelligence of what Hamas were doing around the boarder and that it had increased. They knew something was going on, but likely not what or when
  
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  November 9, 2023 12:57pm
Yvette

Perhaps it is only Labour that could mismanage issues insufficiently enough that the lack of information they should’ve provided for them to now claim ‘Māori have told him they would “go to war” ‘

‘Tough process’ to get acceptable co-governance plan to Cabinet
Willie Jackson’s preparing for a frank conversation with the authors of a draft United Nations’ Declaration Plan, who are now four months behind Cabinet’s schedule
The Māori Development Minister is hopeful the authors of a draft United Nations’ Declaration Plan will have a proposal he can take to Cabinet when he meets with them on Friday.
In June a first draft was delivered to Jackson, but the minister never took it to Cabinet for consideration because he knew his colleagues wouldn’t support it.
At the time he told Newsroom he wasn’t comfortable with about 20 percent of what had been proposed and had asked the governance group set up to consult and draw up the plan to go back and try again.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/cabinet-still-waiting-on-co-governance-draft-plan

“He had hoped they’d return with a more palatable version by late July, but he is yet to receive anything” – so that was July 2022 (this item is dated October 19, 2022)
The work was then shelved for the Election

[Now] Top Labour MP Willie Jackson says Māori have told him they would “go to war” over ACT’s proposal for a referendum on the Treaty of Waitangi
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/501894/maori-will-go-to-war-over-act-s-treaty-referendum-labour-mps-warn

Where co-governance went wrong
Jackson says he’s worked out the two areas the Government has gone wrong with explaining co-governance.
The first is the vacuum that was created because of Jackson and Mahuta being left to carry the load and second, he says, is the way co-governance has been broadened out across a number of different areas “without defining it”
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/jacksons-co-governance-warning-to-labour

So how can Willie Jackson threaten “Māori ‘will go to war’ over ACT’s Treaty referendum” when Willie Jackson has put the response of selected and targeted Maori representatives on the shelf for the time being.

“We have had so much, and yes, we’ve got a gap to make up, but I’m not prepared to risk everything we’ve got for pie in the sky stuff’’ – Willie Jackson
It is you, Willie, who now risk everything
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November 9, 2023 8:40am
- Burtland
  
  Isnt Willie running the same scam of not defining Co-Governance just as Palmer did with ToW Principles ?
  
  Worked once why not try again.
  
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  November 9, 2023 11:24am
  - David Garrett
    
    Burtland: Excellent point. And have you noticed that the MSM outlets all – other than RNZ to their credit – refer to Seymour’s proposed referendum as “a referendum on the Treaty” rather than a referendum on the supposed principles of the Treaty which is a very different thing.
    
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    November 9, 2023 12:37pm
    - Jack5
      
      Now Helen Clark and Farmer-Jim Bolger are doing the very same thing, DG.
      
      Mind you they were being interviewed by Terror Tova, and she either doesn’t know the difference between the treaty and the so-called treaty principles, or else she just didn’t tell the pair.
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301005959/tova-podcast-bloody-stupid-would-rip-us-down-the-middle–two-former-pms-on-treaty-referendum
      
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      November 9, 2023 5:01pm
- imalwaysright
  
  If Jackson has been told by some maori people that they intend to commit violence on the population at large then he is obliged as a citizen to give their details to the police.
  
  If he doesn’t, he is complicit and will have committed a crime.
  
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  November 9, 2023 1:42pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Perhaps he should drop their names into Professor Joan Kidman and Professor Spoonley….
    
    as I’m sure they will be doing everything in their power to keep us safe from violent extremists who want to go to war against their fellow NZers.
    
    https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/centre-preventing-and-countering-violent-extremism-officially-open
    
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    November 9, 2023 3:03pm
hullkiwi

Labour party report from Mt Albert blames Hipkins for the poor election result.

I suppose it is easier to blame Hipkins rather than your former MP, who just happened to call the 4 month lockdown in 2021/22 & help cement Labour’s failures in Auckland.

And there in are the lessons for the incoming government…..

1. Being the government, is not a licence to ride rough shod over the people &

2. Surround yourselves with nodding heads who repeat your pearls of wisdom, and you run the risk of being disconnected, especially when you’ve also bought the MSlM!
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November 9, 2023 8:40am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Hullkiwi – correct, but Hipkins deserves everything he gets. Not least because of the destruction of the education system under his watch, but mainly because he is one of the prime idiots responsible for the covid disaster.
  
  The fact that he didn’t duck the hospital pass thrown at him by Ardern is more proof if it was needed, that Hipkin’s only use is as an example of what a useless, chair polishing, parasitical, career politician looks like.
  
  He’s a clown. Much like Ardern.
  
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  November 9, 2023 9:43am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Clan, I agree that Hipkins is to blame for a great deal of the past 6 years, after all he was part of Ardern’s “kitchen cabinet”. As you say h also oversaw the accelerating decline of NZ’s education system. He was also Minister of Police & with Ardern gaslighted people about the rise in violent crime.
    
    Hipkins is truly woeful, but who have Labour really got to replace him with?
    
    I agree with Josie Pagani (the Labour commentator the stalwarts at the Standard have disowned), that the next Labour PM is not in the Labour caucus as elected at this year’s election (and Michael Wood is not the answer either).
    
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    November 9, 2023 10:01am
    - David Garrett
      
      Hull: He was also Minister of Police & with Ardern gaslighted people about the rise in violent crime
      
      Aint that just the truth? While the number of ram raids – unknown five years ago – and agg robs exploded, Labour was trying to tell us everything was fine…Wasn’t repealing three strikes in the middle of a crime wave a wonderful idea?
      
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      November 9, 2023 1:21pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        We must realise that this destructive regime did not happen because of bad luck or incompetence .
        
        It is becoming clear that this was a regime designed to bring New Zealand to its knees financially and socially .
        
        It did a brilliant job.
        
        Most were ministers in name only, name one who could or did answer a reasonable question about their portfolio.
        The coconspirators are the top echelons of the public service, they are the ones who have the real power. They are the faceless ones behind the departments with the maori names. Relative anonymity was essential , the plastic ministers were there to distract the vacuous media.
        
        Luxon and co have to decapitate the public service. Sack the top 10 percent and they, and we, will have a chance.
        
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        November 9, 2023 1:56pm
      - Burtland
        
        imalwaysright: you can chop off the head but they will just grow another the same – primary schools, secondary schools and universities are all churning out the same clones. The whole lot has to be de-programmed.
        
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        November 9, 2023 4:39pm
  - Paulus
    
    Not sure that Hipkins destroyed the Education system.
    From what I do know the Department of Education and its Leaders, ex Teachers and Unionists, have continued over the years to do what they want and not what any Minister might want.
    And I understand they currently will continue in the same way, irrespective of a new Minister, and a new Government.
    
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    November 9, 2023 1:56pm
    - Burtland
      
      Hipkins mother has been instrumental in putting decolonisation into the schools – its been a 20 year journey for her and NZCER for which she was awarded an MNZM for destroying science education.
      
      These marxist sleepers have been sitting in the system waiting for a Labour government to create this mess. Good luck unraveling it.
      
      https://www.nzcer.org.nz/research/rosemary-rose-hipkins-mnzm
      
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      November 9, 2023 4:55pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  Helen White comes across very ditzy for a lawyer.
  https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/leaked-internal-labour-election-feedback-from-mt-albert-shows-hipkins-on-chuck-list/ar-AA1jzmVQ?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=195157149951483b8731863a82ba6810&ei=9
  
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  November 9, 2023 9:51am
  - Weinerpoop
    
    She is going to be the gift that keeps on giving. She was an employment lawyer for Unions, which is a very low bar for lawyers.
    
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    November 9, 2023 1:12pm
    - David Garrett
      
      Weiner: Indeed…Little will very quickly find that the only legal job(s) open to him will be with the unions.
      
      Law firms generally impose a budget of three times one’s salary – and that means at least a ten hour day – probably with work on Saturday – to meet budget. Old Angry Andy won’t be used to that.
      
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      November 9, 2023 1:24pm
      - alex Masterley
        
        DG, even the unions will look at him sideways.
        His track record really isnt that flash. Mediocre would be gilding the lily a bit.
        
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        November 9, 2023 1:39pm
    - Beach Haven expat
      
      Her interviews are unbearable and she is very patronising. She’s clearly trying to adopt the Ardern method of speaking but come across as a thick version of the former PM.
      
      And that’s a remarkable feat.
      
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      November 9, 2023 5:41pm
      - hullkiwi
        
        A thick version of the previous PM, is that even possible?
        
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        November 10, 2023 10:08am
  - alex Masterley
    
    The toxic ewok, Mr Martyn Bradbury, hasn’t got many nice things to say about Ms White. His blog is an amusing read today.
    
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    November 9, 2023 2:24pm
Southern Raider

On Wednesday night a building associated with and next door to an Auckland synagogue was attacked with graffiti and attempted arson

Absolute silence from the Green Party MPs who were happy to drive radicals into a frenzy on the weekend against Jews.

The left wing supporters on social media also trying to minimise the event and making false claims this was a political building and so fair game

Just to be clear this was a building used by the Jewish community for family and youth group events

If someone had tried to burn down a mosque or islanc community centre it would be front page of the media and the Green MPs would be out in force

In NZ it shows the safety of Jews doesnt count
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November 9, 2023 8:50am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Hold my beer.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/cheers-to-that-beer-may-improve-mental-and-physical-wellbeing-study-finds/ar-AA1aopyZ?
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November 9, 2023 8:52am
- cmm
  
  Ah, yes, the devil is in the details….
  It doesn’t necessarily improve health – just “self perceived health”.
  
  ie. once you have a buzz on you don’t worry about some stuff and feel better about life.
  
  It hardly needed a study to find that out!
  
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  November 9, 2023 9:00am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    I’ll have you know this was an exhaustive study, featuring many sessions with many people. To be able to trust the numbers, you have to do the research!
    
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    November 9, 2023 7:07pm
cmm

OK, we know that NZ will probably never see the death penalty for scum like this….

But can’t we have some chemical castration etc?

What always stuns me with cases like this is that they still have girlfriends who willingly get involved.

Ladies, your function in society is quality control. Stop giving them access to your bodies.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/301004903/court-of-appeal-rejects-offenders-bid-to-have-maximum-extended-supervision-order-removed
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November 9, 2023 8:56am
- Maggie Pie
  
  As my partner said when he read this earlier….
  “There wouldn’t be a sane person out there that could give you ONE good reason why a pr*ck like this shouldn’t have been put to death. What possible benefit is there in him being allowed to remain in society?”
  
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  November 9, 2023 9:16am
  - cmm
    
    … but, but, but his girlfriend loves him…
    
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    November 9, 2023 10:09am
- Notsofast
  
  Send him to Dame Susan Bagshaw. She is the chemical castration in chief for New Zealand.
  
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  November 9, 2023 10:15am
- David Garrett
  
  cmm: One thing I rather liked about that story was the POS was referred to only by his surname, Mist, without the honorific “Mr” in front of it as is usually the case.
  
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  November 9, 2023 1:29pm
I remember when

JapanesePrime Minister:
“That’s why we need to help companies boost profitability and earn revenue to boost wages.”
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November 9, 2023 9:09am
NothingLeft

If you need a laugh today; crude but very funny sequence from little known adult-targeted animated homage to fantasy books and movies Ronal the Barbarian. funniness kicks in after about a minute NSFW
https://youtu.be/aX6WTAYSz-s?t=2564
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November 9, 2023 9:14am
Hugh Jarse

You can virtually guarantee that the Greens will support any violent terrorist or radical group that is anti American or anti an American ally, particularly a democratic one. They have given up any pretence of being an environmental organisation.

How people can vote for these terrorist enablers amazes me as the Greens would prefer to support a group that has committed some of the most hideous crimes upon humans that we have seen since ISIS, than the people those crimes were committed on. What happened on 7 October in Israel was a precursor to what would happen should Hamas over run Israel. The Greens are obviously ok with that ?.

And we still haven’t seen James Shaw to comment on his parties behaviour ?
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November 9, 2023 9:14am
KH

It’s good to keep the discussion based on actual fact. Not what violent Willie says.
So repeat three times
“It’s not a referendum on the treaty. It’s a referendum. It’s a referendum on the Principles”
“It’s not a referendum on the treaty. It’s a referendum. It’s a referendum on the Principles”
“It’s not a referendum on the treaty. It’s a referendum. It’s a referendum on the Principles”
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November 9, 2023 9:16am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  31 Principles – which are not in the Treaty.
  Just shit started by Geoffrey Palmer 1989.
  
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  November 9, 2023 10:40am
bennerg

ZB reports on another elderley person scammed by a person impersonating a bank employee.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/86-year-old-whanganui-woman-scammed-out-of-savings-for-son-s-funeral/

If you have an elderly family member you are concerned about, get the bank to set up a “authorise” feature on accounts with large funds (eg savings) so that a trusted family member or professional has to authorise any movement of funds. Leave normal daily transactions in a EFTPOS card account with minimal balance so not to tie things up.

There may be other things Banks could do to shore up managing safety issues, such as promoting the above (and more), also working with overseas counterparts to implement a 48 quarantine period where transactions do not meet certain standards.

As an aside, I do all online transactions with a Debit Visa, and only transfer money in there as required. Also for purchases I try to use Paypal, even when using the Visa, so there is a chance of recovery through them should things not work out.
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November 9, 2023 9:18am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  There is one very simple thing the banks can do;
  “answer the phone within five minutes”.
  
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  November 9, 2023 1:08pm
- rouppe
  
  I don’t get the bit where she said the caller described several recent transactions.
  
  If someone were from the bank I’d expect them to describe the merchant, the date and the exact amount before I’d believe them.
  
  However, the old adage holds true: If someone calls you about financial matters, get their name, hang up and call them back through the institutions main number that you find online.
  
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  November 9, 2023 1:52pm
- Paulus
  
  Any reasonable Bank transaction, even quite modest, earns me a call on my mobile with a confirming code – Westpac
  
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  November 9, 2023 1:59pm
Jack5

Time to recant!

NZ could do with a local version of South Africa’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

Ours would be for the 2,000 or so who signed the petition attacking the “Listener Seven,” the academics who in the magazine dared question whether Maori “knowledge” was science.

The petition, led by Shaun Hendy and Siouxsie Wiles, included this accusation about the “Listener Seven”:

“…they fail to acknowledge that science has long excluded indigenous peoples from participation, preferring them as subjects for study and exploitation. Diminishing the role of indigenous knowledge systems is simply another tool for exclusion and exploitation…”

And …

“… we believe that mistrust in science stems from science’s ongoing role in perpetuating ‘scientific’ racism, justifying colonisation, and continuing support of systems that create injustice. ..”

An NZ commission could give some of the 2,000 a chance to recant and apologise for supporting the “witch hunt” on the Listener 7.

One of those who signed the petition was interviewed on Red Radio this morning on another matter. He holds a prominent telecommunications position. and his reputation would rise if he publicly recanted.

Richard Dawkins was one of the world notables who defended the “Listener 7”.

But it’s time that all of the 2,000 who signed the petition were given a platform from which they could recant the link with the petition, and apologise.
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November 9, 2023 9:31am
- Taieri
  
  science has long excluded indigenous peoples from participation
  ————
  
  It is not possible for the science to “exclude” anyone, be it indigenous people or any other people. Science is inanimate, it can’t “exclude” or “include”. People using this sort of expressions are illiterate.
  
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  November 9, 2023 9:48am
  - cmm
    
    Even if you use “science” as a stand-in for “the scientific establishment” this is still bullshit.
    
    Nobody in science is excluding indigenous people.
    
    But what is being done is setting a benchmark for what should be considered science (ie that it should be scientific). This does not exclude people. It excludes non-scientific thought.
    
    If an indigenous person wants to become a scientist then they are most welcome to do so.
    
    Folklore is not science. This is not racist. German, British, Turkish, African,… and Maori… folklore are all considered unscientific and are not science.
    
    It is as ridiculous to demand that Maori folklore be considered science as it is to demand that Halloween be considered science.
    
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    November 9, 2023 10:37am
- Blog-aholic
  
  I hold the belief that most signed because of pressure from the very organisations they work within or for. It would have been a career destabilisng move not to sign.
  
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  November 9, 2023 9:52am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I don’t think so..
    
    Some of the Scientists have doubled down about old white folks running science and in particular the Listener 7.
    
    Read reason #1
    
    https://www.journalofglobalindigeneity.com/article/55788-50-reasons-why-there-are-no-maori-in-your-science-department
    
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    November 9, 2023 10:56am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      This might be an easier version of the paper to read.
      
      https://e-tangata.co.nz/reflections/50-reasons-there-are-no-maori-in-your-science-department/
      
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      November 9, 2023 11:03am
      - Jack5
        
        Maori approval is required for all research at Otago University.
        
        The university calls it “consultation”.
        
        https://www.otago.ac.nz/staff/policies/policy-collection/research-consultation-with-maori-policy
        
        https://www.otago.ac.nz/research/maoriconsultation#ng%C4%81i-tahu-research-consultation-committee-submission-dates
        
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        November 9, 2023 11:31am
      - NothingLeft
        
        I don’t want them taxpayer funded if that is the case.
        
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        November 9, 2023 4:34pm
      - Dave
        
        Unfortunately, one can read the easier version and still not be much wiser about what she understands by science and what exactly the problem is – a lot of vague emoting undermines what might or might not be some valid points.
        
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        November 9, 2023 6:05pm
- bennerg
  
  It is important to examine the world “science”, as it is used differently by the likes of Shaun & Siouxsie to what the actual word means (as per a dictionary).
  
  Science is a method of enquiry. As per the Oxford Dictionary:
  
  “the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation, experimentation, and the testing of theories against the evidence obtained”.
  
  However it is often used to refer industries that make use of the many “branches of sciences”. These are broken down into what can be termed physical and life sciences. However any endeavour can be approached in a scientific manner. Even religion can be studued in a “scientific manner”. We have social sciences that study human society and social relationships. So in essence, anything can be studied “scientifically”.
  
  Referring to “science” as an area of society is therefore a mistaken view. There is no Maori Science, just as there is no Jewish science (Einstein was Jewish), or African Science. Because Science is purely a method of enquiry with inherently no ethnic or racial attributes.
  
  As to whether there was a scientific approach followed by Maori peoples prior to the arrival of the European, one could apply the definition above, and say yes they observed the phenomenon around them, experimented, and tested the theories. Fishermen often follow to this day the practices to get the best catch based on phases of the moon etc.
  
  However current scientific best practices require a written language, sharing of information, testing of the theory, and most importantly, attempts to explain the phenomenon to truly understand the why, not just the what. None of that was possible or available back then. So the process was simply a very basic process of survival, rather than the acquisition of a body of knowledge that was materially recorded, and could be independently tested.
  
  “… we believe that mistrust in science stems from science’s ongoing role in perpetuating …
  
  Here their use of the word “science” shows a lack of grammatical correctness, using it as a slogan, which coming from so called “educated” persons, invalidates any serious consideration of their message.
  
  This superficiality reminds me of the old TV advertisement, with a tall, pretty lady dressed in a white coat and glasses, carrying a clipboard, telling me which brand of toothpaste to buy, saying “… science tells us …”.
  
  Science is not just found in laboratories – in fact today we have found that even there it may not. Business has taken on “science” as a cloak of sanctimony to justify dubious, if not devious practices, to further their financial gain.
  
  It is time to reclaim the purity of the term “science”, and it’s proper use in society.
  
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  November 9, 2023 10:38am
  - Swifty
    
    Excellent.
    
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    November 9, 2023 11:33am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Yeah, well, when you rely on the Oxford Dictionary for your definition of ‘science’ then it’s going to be colonialist, eh.
    
    // for the hard of understanding
    
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    November 9, 2023 7:24pm
  - Colinxy
    
    Science has been misappropriated for a long time; Karl Marx said his version of socialism was scientific “Scientific Socialism”. There’s nothing scientific about Marx’s religion but many repeat the delusion. It probably also infects the delusion on the Left that “reality has a left-leaning bias”.
    
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    November 9, 2023 9:06pm
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  But, but, but … just follow the science! Said Siouxsie and Shaun.
  
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  November 9, 2023 10:59am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Shaun of the Dead
    
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    November 9, 2023 2:11pm
- Burtland
  
  there is no surer sign that the Universities are stuffed than 2000 staff signing such a petition – this neo marxist cancer has been allowed to permeate all NZ Government Institutions – the metastasis is complete. Unfortunately everything rests with Luxon.
  
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  November 9, 2023 11:47am
- Colinxy
  
  According to Wiles, science is sexist. Wiles is a scientist, ergo, Wiles is sexist.
  
  Proof of my claim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToPI7MH3pdQ
  
  Wiles was a piss-poor scientist long before COVID (note: the video was uploaded in late 2015).
  
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  November 9, 2023 5:59pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Her field of study is bioluminescence, which mysteriously has found its way to her hair.
    
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    November 9, 2023 7:25pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

Get a load of this shit.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/kelvin-davis-maori-mp-seymour-must-get-permission-from-maori-first-if-he-wants-to-have-a-referendum/
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November 9, 2023 9:37am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Why are Maori so against this? What do they fear? I know what they fear.
  If Davis Seymour does start to ask permission, Maori will see it as him caving, a weakness. Never have I heard something this ridiculous. Straight out arrogance from the special people who are used to getting what they want. Piss off.
  
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  November 9, 2023 9:48am
ClanMcleod

11 Children (Ages 9-19) Had Cardiac Arrests at US Schools in the Past Month
“Is there a time bomb in your child’s chest?”

Because kids were always dropping dead when I was at school. Not.

A Thai study (2022, Mansanguan) found that 1 in 30 boys developed subclinical myo/pericarditis after the second Pfizer dose.

Another study from Switzerland (2023, Muller) discovered that 1 in 35 healthcare workers had evidence of myocardial injury after the Moderna booster shot.

This past month, 11 children (aged 9-19) had cardiac arrests at US schools. And two more had heart attacks while getting ready for school.

Is this “the new normal”?

https://vigilantfox.substack.com/p/11-children-ages-9-19-had-cardiac
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November 9, 2023 9:37am
- NothingLeft
  
  1 in 330 kids dies between 9 and 19 normally. 1 in 500 girls, 1 in 250 boys. That number of cardiac arrests amongst 10’s of millions of kids doesn’t sound strange. But would need to see stats.
  
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  November 9, 2023 10:47am
Maggie Pie

Definition of…… ‘Hypocrite’

“Awesome news, Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand MP and Auckland Central candidate Chloe Swarbrick is VEGAN!”

– Invercargill Vegan Society (13 Oct. 2020)

So why would a hard-core Vegan opt to wear RM Williams LEATHER BOOTS?

Watch @ 1:20 sec
https://twitter.com/smoothie_nz/status/1721765895402622978

😀 😀 😀
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November 9, 2023 9:52am
- Blog-aholic
  
  $600 RM Williams leather boots at that. Maybe black is her colour?
  
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  November 9, 2023 9:58am
- NothingLeft
  
  Chloe plays a vegan on TV. Cos when you are a Green it’s only the signaling that matters, not reality.
  
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  November 9, 2023 10:10am
- Taieri
  
  “Awesome news, Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand MP and Auckland Central candidate Chloe Swarbrick is VEGAN!”
  ————-
  
  So was Hitler. No, wait, Hitler was just a vegetarian.
  
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  November 9, 2023 10:11am
  - All_on_Red
    
    So Chloe is worse than Hitler?
    Sounds about right
    //
    
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    November 9, 2023 11:51am
- MCōs
  
  Jesus thought for a moment and then replied, “He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her.”
  
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  November 9, 2023 10:21am
  - jonno1
    
    Agreed. For context (John 8:11): And Jesus said ‘Neither do I [condemn you]. Go and sin no more.’
    
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    November 9, 2023 12:03pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      And importantly this was Jesus showing up the religious leaders as corrupt hypocrites. They had caught the woman ‘in the act of adultery’ and brought only her for judgement while letting the chap with zipper trouble off scott free.
      
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      November 9, 2023 1:57pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    From the back of the crowd, an enormous rock came flying through the air and struck the poor woman dead.
    
    Jesus stood up, peered over to where the rock came from and said
    
    “Mother! Stop following me around!”
    
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    November 9, 2023 7:28pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  At least she cleans them!!!
  
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  November 9, 2023 10:25am
- The Housekeeper
  
  Don’t forget the leather sofa
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/renting/122410717/the-most-expensive-thing-green-mp-chle-swarbrick-owns-is-her-couch
  
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  November 9, 2023 2:56pm
- Burtland
  
  the scary thing is that Chloe Swarbrick and Tamatha Paul are part of the vacuous Green youthquake that will one day run NZ Aotearoa
  
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  November 9, 2023 5:20pm
Ghost

Why am I not surprised

A public relations and lobbying firm was embedded in the offices of the Commerce Commission, working on highly sensitive areas of competition policy at the heart of the cost-of-living crisis.

Article

Bryce Edwards: Should government departments be giving contracts to lobbying firms?

Is it a problem that lobbying firms are being given contracts by government departments? Such firms, who assist private businesses and vested interests in their bid to influence government, are being hired by the government and given access to decision-making processes and officials, therefore potentially providing private sector clients with privileged access to power.

Article
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November 9, 2023 10:03am
Taieri

An interesting take on governance.

There’re about 70 ministerial portfolios in NZ at present. For the population of just over 5 million.

There’re 17 ministerial portfolios in German Federal Government. For the population of 83 million.

Which country is governed more efficiently? And more effectively?

For example, according to Wikipedia, “In 2017, the government health system in Germany kept a record reserve of more than €18 billion which made it one of the healthiest healthcare systems in the world at the time.”
Also, waiting times are reported to be very low, with quite a low percentage having to wait for surgery for more than 12 weeks.

No doubt more similar examples could be quoted in other areas.

More here:

https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2023/11/oliver-hartwich-cutting-cabinet-why-new.html#more
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November 9, 2023 10:07am
- hullkiwi
  
  I recommend you read Parkinsons’ Laws.
  
  Parkinson was a post-war British Civil Servant who wrote of his observations as a Civil Servant. In his original edition was a chapter on the make of governments and cabinets. He even referenced the NZ government, noting that the size of the cabinet and other associated government appointments had more to do with the aspirations of ambitious back bench MPs than having cabinet seats with real jobs attached.
  
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  November 9, 2023 10:42am
  - hullkiwi
    
    The other problems with having large cabinets etc are:
    1. Making sure any promoted MP does not out shine the PM in the media/popularity stakes;
    2. Having enough talent to give jobs to;
    3. Not appearing to give everybody a job, and leaving the back benches empty; and
    4. The PM must deal with failing ministers, else they make the PM look weak or the govt look weak. This then causes a problem with 2 & 3 above – a PM can only recycle a failing MP’s career so many times!
    
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    November 9, 2023 10:47am
- krazykiwi
  
  70? We can’t be far off starting a portfolio to manage ministry portfolios.
  
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  November 9, 2023 1:59pm
Damocles11

Shocking errors from a senior journalist writing in the Herald today. Audrey Young does a profile of each of the prospective coalition parties leaders chief’s of staff. In the profile of Darroch Ball – the chief of staff of Winston Peters – she writes that he was an MP from 2014 until 2017, and writes of how he stopped the repeal of the Three Strikes legislation by Labour in that period, during which he ‘achieved a reasonable amount’. She writes ‘In 2017, when the party was tipped out of office, the president resigned and he (Ball) became interim party president to keep the ship afloat…’
– Ball was an NZ First MP from 2014 to 2020.
– NZ First went into coalition with Labour in 2017.
– NZ First lost all its seats at the 2020 election.
Young is hopelessly confused as regards some very basic details. Her editor is obviously asleep at the wheel as well. How damaging for the newspapers credibility.
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November 9, 2023 10:08am
- kowloon
  
  for the newspapers credibility….the Herald!
  what credibility?; they lost their innocence way back in the 1970’s.
  
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  November 9, 2023 11:35am
peterwn

Newshub headline – “Chris Hipkins may be sworn in again as Prime Minister due to technicality in law”

If that is the case, surely it is Chris Luxon who should be sworn in, not Chris Hipkins.

See: https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/11/chris-hipkins-may-be-sworn-in-again-as-prime-minister-due-to-technicality-in-law.html
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November 9, 2023 10:23am
- Ghost
  
  How? Luxon doesn’t have the numbers to form a government yet. Until he does he is just the leader of the National party, he hasn’t yet won the election and formed a government. Act or NZ first could walk away and National not have the numbers. Until that time he has the numbers Hipkins is still the caretaker PM.
  
  Tomorrow morning Winston could wake up, he won’t, and decide that he wants to form a government with labour, greens, Māori.
  
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  November 9, 2023 10:37am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Who knows? he’s very fond of his baubles – see 2017 for example.
    
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    November 9, 2023 10:54am
Maggy Wassilieff

Nice work if you can get it…

and you can get it if you’re mates with certain folks.

https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2023/11/09/bryce-edwards-should-government-departments-be-giving-contracts-to-lobbying-firms/
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November 9, 2023 10:42am
cmm

Yesterday I visited the nurse at the GPs to get some bloods pulled.
While I was there she asked if I wanted the flu jab.
No thanks.
She asked whether I’d had the Covid jab. Nope, I said. It doesn’t work and there are various risks so it looks like a bad deal to inject it.
She conceded that, indeed, the jab “wasn’t perfect” and didn’t work all the time. She had been boosted and still got Covid.

That was a refreshing change. She was still pushing the pro-jab line, but with far less conviction than a year ago.
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November 9, 2023 10:44am
- Ghost
  
  My gp before it came out advised patients to not get it, don’t touch a new vaccine for at least a decade. I have no idea if he’s had the vaccine, cough, but he is the only staff member there who hasn’t had covid.
  
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  November 9, 2023 10:52am
  - krazykiwi
    
    My GP made an embarrassing attempt to get me to take a flu jab recently. Embarrassing for her in the sense that I schooled her on the history of anti-virals and evidence of their dismissal failure at preventing illness or even minimising illness severity. I was excruciatingly polite, even when she sounded like she was reciting lines from a product brochure. I fully expect to be ‘passed’ to some poor junior GP with a conspiracy theorist tag in my file. Such fun.
    
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    November 9, 2023 2:09pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  So the nurse didn’t say “safe and effective”
  Good. She is not brainwashed.
  
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  November 9, 2023 10:54am
Northshore

cmm: I think you misunderstand how vaccinations work. A “flu” jab or “Covid” jab will not stop you getting these infections. The jab is actually a deliberate introduction into your body of a virus which your natural antibody system will react to and prepare a response should you catch an infection.
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November 9, 2023 10:57am
- cmm
  
  I do understand how it works.
  
  Remember all the “95% effective” crap? All the “it will stop it in its tracks” stuff? Yeah well people don’t believe that bullshit any more. Not even the people that were selling it a year ago.
  
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  November 9, 2023 12:02pm
- mawm
  
  Northshore – It looks as if you don’t understand how Covid ‘vaccines’ work.
  
  The live attenuated vaccines are measles, small pox, polio, etc. Even the Novovax, which is a protein sub-unit vaccine, is not a live virus. Available in NZ are the mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna, and Novovax.
  
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  November 9, 2023 12:39pm
- miltonF
  
  You might be suffering from memory loss Northshore.
  
  That was definitely not what we were being told. In fact, if you wrote a comment like yours on a news or social media site, it would have been censored.
  
  You haven’t been keeping up with how the goal posts have been constantly shifted. Next, you’ll be agreeing with Chippie that no one was forced to take the “vaccine” and it was all just a bad dream!
  
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  November 9, 2023 1:52pm
- krazykiwi
  
  “The jab is actually a deliberate introduction into your body of a virus”
  
  Wrong, and by a wide margin. The mRNA ‘vaccines’* do not contain whole or even part of any virus. Lipid Nanoparticles (LNPs) are used to encase genetic material that instructs the host’s body to become a factory that produces trillions of one part of the virus, the ‘spike’. It’s not even that same spike protein as the virus, being two amino acids (prolines) different from the original strain. But at the DNA level, BioNtech’s codon optimised, which means that the DNA that codes for the spike protein is dramatically different. It’s actually only 72% identical at the DNA level.
  
  *These injections are technically gene therapies. They fit the original WHO definition, and even Pfizer used the term in their first safety submission to the FDA
  
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  November 9, 2023 2:20pm
- imalwaysright
  
  North ,
  
  “The jab is actually a deliberate introduction into your body of a virus which your natural antibody system will react to and prepare a response should you catch an infection”
  
  You previously stated:
  
  “A “flu” jab or “Covid” jab will not stop you getting these infections”
  
  Is that why most people who get the covid jab get covid?
  
  Seems rather futile.
  
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  November 9, 2023 2:24pm
Northshore

Campit: interesting talking points you have raised.
This is a huge intelligence failure by Israel not to have seen this coming. The military response displays little tactical thinking and is more kneejerk reaction than anything else, demonstrating that they still have little intel of the enemy’s movements.
Instead of just branding Hamas as “evil” and “Jew hating,” there seems little effort to get into the Hamas mindset and understand why they did what they did and are doing what they are doing. Understanding your enemy is the best way to defeat your enemy.
Your point 10 is interesting: the ambivalence and effectiveness of the USA response. USA is the financier and armourer of Israel yet seem to have little control of events.
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November 9, 2023 11:23am
- All_on_Red
  
  Yes, it’s a complete mystery why Hamas did what it did.
  //
  
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  November 9, 2023 11:55am
  - Paulus
    
    Putin and Iran’s Ayatollah wanted it to take media pressure off Russia’s war.
    
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    November 9, 2023 2:05pm
    - kowtow
      
      They wanted to scuttle the Israel / Saudi normalisation .
      And they succeeded .
      
      All these people calling for a ceasefire , need to remember who started this and why .
      
      And very importantly ; how . The attacks on southern Israel by Hamas as Iranian proxies was horrendous.
      
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      November 9, 2023 2:37pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Correct
        The Saudis (and others) were about to recognise Israels Sovereignty and Iran did not want that
        
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        November 9, 2023 5:09pm
- rouppe
  
  You really ought to try the “reply” link…
  
  [Mod – I agree, please hit the reply button below a post when replying to someone so that people know who you are talking to]
  
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  November 9, 2023 12:55pm
- kowtow
  
  Nothing interesting raised there , just a whole heap of far left , extremist bullshit.
  
  The Israeli press are all over Netanyahu for the intelligence failure and he won’t survive this.
  
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  November 9, 2023 2:08pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Israel are winning on their terms – more than 50k people left North Gaza today through IDF checkpoints, IDF are filtering out and wiping out Hamas at relatively low cost of Israeli lives, and as more civilians leave it will get easier (less collateral casualties).
  
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  November 9, 2023 4:32pm
F E Smith

Sorry if this is a repeat (I have looked but can’t see it), but the Court of Appeal has just released its decision in the electoral fraud case. All convictions have been overturned with the exception of one for lying to the SFO.
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November 9, 2023 11:24am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  At first I thought you were referring to the Labour Sikh chap some years back..
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/labour-candidate-sentenced-over-electoral-fraud/5HDX5JMPN7CUKI3LUCFOF4MWHE/
  
  But presumably you mean these generous chaps…
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/502013/businessmen-s-national-party-donations-charges-overturned-due-to-lack-of-benefit
  
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  November 9, 2023 3:14pm
- Colville
  
  So the convictions were quashed because the people involved didnt personally benefit from the wrongdoing?
  Actually its not wrongdoing because they didnt benefit?
  Other that telling porkies to the SFO…that is still wrong!
  
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  November 9, 2023 3:45pm
Jack5

Did the Labour Government fill the country’s motels with gang members and convicts discharged from prison?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/canterbury/301005439/person-critically-injured-following-possible-gang-brawl-outside-christchurch-motel
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November 9, 2023 11:39am
Maggie Pie

And I see where Kiri’s case has been adjourned for a THIRD time at the Crown’s request.
Was sposed to be tomorrow but now down for 30 November.

A lot of speculation on ‘X’ it could be dropped altogether.

Hmmm.
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November 9, 2023 11:43am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Yes it would not surprise me if she never gets to court. All these delays are just ridiculous. Front up and face the consequences of your actions doesn’t seem to apply in NZ anymore.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/kiri-allan-car-crash-court-case-adjourned-for-third-time/EHHSE3C4FFCKTD7SDESQQI4HXU/
  
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  November 9, 2023 11:51am
- Taieri
  
  A lot of speculation on ‘X’ it could be dropped altogether.
  ———–
  
  And so it should be. It is simply ludicrous (not to say homophobic) that such an upstanding person, who committed her whole life to the betterment of humanity should be subjected to the sustained persecution and vilified for such a trivial incident. It’s just another example of white supremacy and never ceasing hatred of Indigenous People.
  
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  November 9, 2023 1:53pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    YUP! was thinking exactly the same thing meself. Racism at its very worst.
    
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    November 9, 2023 2:21pm
- NothingLeft
  
  She’s played the mental health card, saying she was suicidal, if there is evidence to that effect than I’m OK with giving her a pass – she’s already lost just about everything reputationally (though she’ll no doubt get an taxpayer funded NGO diversity hire job somewhere). People do dumb shit when they are on the edge.
  
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  November 9, 2023 4:28pm
  - rouppe
    
    1. Choose to get drunk.
    2. Choose to drive your car.
    3. Crash into someone else’s car, really messing up their next day.
    4. Walk off, leaving all your mess all over the road.
    5. Deny it was you when confronted by police.
    
    Yep, let’s let everyone off who does that, by just saying “I was feeling suicidal just then. Soz”
    
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    November 9, 2023 5:16pm
I remember when

‘Have some respect bro’: Person of interest in Baby Ru homicide yells at media outside court: Newshub.

What are the chances of that!
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November 9, 2023 11:51am
I remember when

Purple Ragwort:
Senecio elegans is regarded as an environmental weed as this garden escape is primarily a weed of coastal environs, particularly sand dunes, where it spreads rapidly, displacing the indigenous vegetation.

As I travel along Transmission Gully I am reminded of the song ‘The Hills are Alive…’,
however it is with Purple Ragwort not song.
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November 9, 2023 11:56am
Northshore

cmm: The nurses and GP you are talking to are correct in one important respect. It takes up to 10 years to research, test and produce a vaccine before it is declared safe and effective. The problem, two years ago, was that the Drug Companies did not have the luxury of 10 years. They had to get something out there urgently. What was produced was not perfect, but it saved a lot of lives.
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November 9, 2023 12:20pm
- Taieri
  
  What was produced was not perfect, but it saved a lot of lives
  ————
  
  Impossible to determine whether it did or not save lives. It can only be assumed that it did, but it can’t be proven as Covid affected different people in different ways, i.e while some were seriously sick other had no symptoms at all.
  
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  November 9, 2023 1:57pm
- cmm
  
  I absolutely agree they didn’t have the time.
  
  But that is no excuse to serve up some muck and pretend it was a “vaccine”, then force people to get it.
  
  I don’t think it saved many lives. My twice-jabbed mother died with Covid. It didn’t save her.
  
  When there is an experimental treatment then it sould only be used on a risk/reward basis. ie. is it a good deal for each person. For extremely highly vulnerable people (eg. like my mother) it might make sense to use a high risk drug. But for healthy people, for whom the treatment is of extremely low value, it makes much less sense to inflict the risk of an untested drug/treatment on them.
  
  There were zero benefits (and quite likely many negatives) for the vast majority of healthy people who were forced to get it. It is completely irresponsible using an untested “vaccine” on people for whom there is no benefit.
  
  The story was that we were all getting the vaccine to save granny. By getting vaccinated we would prevent infection of others. That was a lie.
  
  I was unvaccinated. I got infected by a twice-jabbed (maybe boosted) person.
  
  Yet we were told that only the unvaccinated could spread the virius and were a risk to everyone else (eg. our vet clinic refused to allow unvaccinated people into their clinic).
  
  Fucking lies end to end.
  
  One of the most basic principles in medical treatment in informed consent. There was no informed consent here because:
  1) People need to be informed before there can be informed consent.
  2) People were forced to take it. Hardly consenting.
  
  This was a travesty. It flies in the face of “science” and the health industry.
  
  Both science and the health industry have had their credibility dented. It has been an own goal.
  
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  November 9, 2023 2:19pm
- imalwaysright
  
  North,
  I had a bottle of wine the other night and I haven’t died since…
  Clearly, it saved my life.
  
  (I didn’t get the jab and I haven’t had the wuflu)
  
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  November 9, 2023 2:32pm
Maggie Pie

Oh to be a fly on the wall 😛

Menage-a-trois to take place in Wellington this arvo….

https://twitter.com/NewshubPolitics/status/1722400506155520463
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November 9, 2023 12:56pm
- NothingLeft
  
  let the bauble fondling begin!
  
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  November 9, 2023 4:22pm
mandk

Responding to Northshore: “but it saved a lot of lives”

Do you know that, or are you repeating what we were told from the “podium of truth”?

I say this because, as far as I can tell from the data released by the MoH, the average age of people whose deaths are attributed in some way to COVID (i.e. not necessarily caused by) is little different from the average age of death from all causes.

It’s also notable that the case-specific death rate related to COVID has decreased over time, which could be the result of better case management through the use of antivirals etc, rather than the jab.

Moreover, the excess number of all-cause deaths for the last 18 months or so has been greater than the number of deaths related to COVID. This implies that, rather than saving lives, the vaxx has actually cost lives overall.
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November 9, 2023 1:10pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Covid vaxes probably did save lives amongst very elderly and sick, but almost certainly cost lives amongst youngest and healthiest sections of the population. From memory there were less than 1 in a million school kids (and no healthy ones) who died from covid, and this was known very early. But there were certainly school kids who died as a result of vaccination.
  
  Some of the biggest and unjustifiable scandals of the whole sorry mess were:
  -not doing proper follow-up of trial patients (possible malfeasance on display – eg far less than normal number of deaths amongst participants demonstrates something rotten at play)
  -not crediting prior infection as a reason to not bother with a not-zero-risk vaccine.
  -not allowing low risk individuals to opt out
  -maintaining mandates far beyond their usefulness once low risk Omicron was dominant.
  
  Hard to see anything but Pharma profit motive driving these choices.
  
  Of course mandates, shitting on a century of medical and political ethics, were thoroughly rotten anyway.
  
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  November 9, 2023 4:21pm
Ghost

Labour MP and former police minister Ginny Andersen is the subject of a complaint alleging she bullied a teenage volunteer over three years.

The party is now investigating after the teenager’s mother wrote to President Jill Day.

Article
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November 9, 2023 1:14pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It would be much easier if all Labour MPs just admitted that Dr Sharma was right….
  
  Seems that some Labour folk are so infected with their own wonderfulness that they’ve lost sight of how to be decent people.
  
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  November 9, 2023 1:41pm
  - cmm
    
    The Fingergate controversy was never really resolved either.
    
    Who were the Labour MPs that went to bed and let the alcohol-fueled teen debauchery continue with no supervision?
    
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    November 9, 2023 2:22pm
Northshore

Mawm: thanks for the clarification.
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November 9, 2023 1:16pm
Maggie Pie

>>>SPOT THE COMMON DENOMINATOR 🙁

Here’s a list of the 27 filthiest restaurants in Auckland….having all received a ‘D’ Grade from the Council.
One, the aptly named Hai-Phong-Vietnamese in Northcote, was graded ‘E’

https://newhub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/11/auckland-s-filthiest-eateries-worst-graded-restuarants-revealed.html
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November 9, 2023 1:25pm
- surfing
  
  Let me fix that…
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/11/auckland-s-filthiest-eateries-worst-graded-restuarants-revealed.html
  
  Did you type that in manually?
  
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  November 9, 2023 1:34pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    tHX surf. Was txt to me.
    
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    November 9, 2023 2:24pm
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    Hurray for the rating system. According to that article all those restaurants are now ‘A’ rated.
    
    I would like to see a similar list of B and C rated restaurants with the hope they also upscale themselves.
    
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    November 9, 2023 6:22pm
I remember when

Luxturna: FDA documents reveal the value of a costly gene therapy: PubMed.
Abstract: (19.1.2019.)
These documents reveal that the drug is not expected to restore normal vision, that only half of the treated patients met the FDA’s threshold for miniminally meaningful improvement, that the improvements might not persist long-term, that the most common measure of visual function was rejected as a primary endpoint after yielding mixed results, and that two patients experienced vision loss.
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November 9, 2023 1:33pm
vand

Northshore- I suggest you start with the Hamas charter
Also find out where the bomb shelters for the Gazan people are and compare them(there are none apparently) with the hundreds of miles of tunnels built under the civilian buildings with foreign aid money to wage war(s) against the Jews . Viable methods of fighting embedded terrorists with tunnel entry/exits in civilian buildings, without widespread civilian casualties, would be welcome
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November 9, 2023 1:35pm
Northshore

Mandk: I think reference to the “podium of truth” is an unfortunate attempt to politicise a healthy debate. I am happy to concede that good research will, in the course of time, establish whether the rollout of the Covid vaccines saved lives or did the opposite. Where I sit, with the info I have been exposed to, is that it was better to embrace the vaccines rather than reject them.
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November 9, 2023 1:37pm
- All_on_Red
  
  As the risk of being Hall Monitor, if you click on Reply then your response will stay with the conversation you are responding to.
  Makes it easier to follow the threads.
  
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  November 9, 2023 1:57pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  With all due respect, I disagree.
  
  To put (basically force) an experimental, untried novel vaccine into billions of humans was unjustifiable.
  
  This should never, ever be allowed to happen again. The risks are huge.
  
  Viruses have been around forever and humans are still around.
  
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  November 9, 2023 6:14pm
Chuck Bird

This is an hour but worth viewing

Israel, Immigration & Islam | Douglas Murray

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS1_cAdIQR4
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November 9, 2023 1:38pm
Tasman devil

Ginny Andersen has been accused of bullying a teenage volunteer over three years:

Ginny was appointed to Cabinet by the “boy from the Hutt.”

Does that make her the “mutt from the Hutt?”

Just asking for sausage roll eaters throughout
“Aotearoa New Zealand.”
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November 9, 2023 1:41pm
- Colville
  
  I was going to ask…there seems to be a lot more of Ginny than previously…has she been in the role of sausage roll taster?? or maybe a doughnut after a saussie roll?
  
  I love a good doughnut!
  
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  November 9, 2023 3:48pm
- Beach Haven expat
  
  Maybe her alleged outburst on election night against the poor teen was fuelled by the surprise announcement by Chippy of his new love Toni?
  
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  November 9, 2023 10:35pm
Northshore

All_On_Red. If you are replying to me, then that is what I did and is what I am doing now.

[Mod – please hit reply on the message you are replying to so that discussions remain in that thread]
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November 9, 2023 2:18pm
Maggie Pie

Goodness me! Check this guy out 🙁

Vinh Kien Su doesn’t sound to happy with his time in Aotearoa….

https://twitter.com/vinh_05/status/1722032657654280369
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November 9, 2023 2:49pm
graham

Oh dear …

The Electoral Commission is under intense scrutiny over its decision to set up a polling booth at Manurewa Marae, where Te Pāti Māori candidate Takutai Moana Kemp is the CEO.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/electoral-commission-polling-place-decisions-under-fire-amidst-recount-and-voting-irregularities-at-manurewa-marae/UC6NWC2RVJDALJINAMQWXJL5W4/

This issue is part of a larger probe into election conduct at the marae, in the wake of a tightly contested race in Tāmaki Makaurau, which saw Kemp secure victory over Labour MP Peeni Henare by just four votes — a stark contrast from the 495-vote lead Henare held on election night.

In an election rattled by revelations of ‘Data Entry Errors’ and their implications, Labour officially yesterday requested a recount in Tāmaki Makuarau.

Further adding to the contentious atmosphere, the commission admitted, “We can confirm that we have received complaints about activities at the Manurewa Marae, including whether the provision of food could be considered treating.”

Treating, the act of offering goods or services to influence voters, carries a high burden of proof, requiring evidence of “a corrupt intention” to warrant legal action.

So the Electoral Commission set up a polling booth at a Marae where the CEO was a candidate for Te Pāti Māori, and free food was apparently on offer.

Not a good look!
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November 9, 2023 3:12pm
- Colville
  
  If this went to a bi election and Labour turned it over TPM would lose one but Labour wouldnt get one more ? just have to sack a list MP? because TPM has an overhang?
  
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  November 9, 2023 3:50pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Given the difference is 4 votes.
  
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  November 9, 2023 4:20pm
- rockape
  
  My recollection of training people to run polling places was that only officials and scrutineers were allowed. So who served the food ?
  
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  November 9, 2023 7:36pm
Northshore

Mod: that obviously doesn’t seem to work for me.
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November 9, 2023 3:15pm
krazykiwi

Transgender Antifa ‘rioter’ Jamie Marsicano appears in the dock and informs the judge he prefers to be called by “they/them” pronouns. The judge apologized; “I won’t remember that, I’m sorry.”

Excellent.
17 0
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November 9, 2023 3:18pm
- Swifty
  
  Hahahahahaha!
  
  4 0
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  November 9, 2023 4:51pm
Ghost

Looks like Kiri was suicidal

Article
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November 9, 2023 3:58pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  And so it begins….
  
  6 0
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  November 9, 2023 5:04pm
- rouppe
  
  Yeah. Wah, wah, wah.
  
  If you feel yourself falling into that abyss, you step back, and find help. You don’t “in a last bid attempt to find hope, drive and crash”.
  
  That’s attention seeking. And one has to have doubts as to the legitimacy of the claim. Pull the mental health card, get off the damage you caused.
  
  Yes it’s unkind, and not very compassionate. But I basically don’t believe anything they say anymore.
  
  7 0
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  November 9, 2023 5:06pm
  - Ghost
    
    As someone who was suicidal after burying my little brother looking for help was not something I wanted or even saw as an option. Driving head on to something was a thought I had many times a day, as was opening the car door and just jumping out while the car was going.
    
    3 1
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    November 9, 2023 5:17pm
    - rouppe
      
      I’m sorry to hear that. But you didn’t do it. You stepped back and got through it, in whatever way you did that.
      
      8 0
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      November 9, 2023 5:30pm
      - Ghost
        
        I haven’t driven for over a decade. It took me a long time to get to a point where I wanted to live. But twice a year I still hit those spots on his birthday and the day he was killed.
        
        1 0
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        November 9, 2023 7:39pm
  - greybeard
    
    Exactly. She broke up with her lesbian partner: I dare say that it wasn’t the first break-up in her life, and I can guarantee it won’t be the last.
    It has happened to most of us.
    
    6 0
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    November 9, 2023 7:05pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Perhaps she should retreat the boondocks & get herself a tax paying job out of the public eye. That’s bound to help her mental health – and mine.
    
    2 0
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    November 9, 2023 7:40pm
- kevn
  
  Ghost… Her dalliance with sworbrick wouldn’t have helped. I wonder who dumped who?
  
  2 0
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  November 9, 2023 7:21pm
Chuck Bird

Free Speech Union.

I have emailed the FSU about where to draw the line in regard to Israel. I have not received a reply.

Should fuck the Jews be considered incitement? How about gas the Jews?

What about Palestine from the river to the sea?
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November 9, 2023 4:26pm
- Dave
  
  No, these are not incitement to an imminent action against specific people. Repugnant, yes; incitement, no.
  
  2 0
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  November 9, 2023 7:22pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    That is not what the law says.
    
    81 Seditious offences defined, Crimes Act 1961
    
    https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/1.0/DLM328549.html
    
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    November 9, 2023 8:14pm
Swifty

It’s perfectly fine when Labour ACTUALLY splits the country down the middle, but when ACT proposes something that Clark dreams, guesses, proposes might create a split then “oh, no, we can’t have that….”

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301005959/tova-podcast-bloody-stupid-would-rip-us-down-the-middle–two-former-pms-on-treaty-referendum

But the real kicker, the prize for the class dunce, the person who absolutely betrays in one sentence that he hasn’t a clue what’s been going on goes to Bolger who, in attempting to summarise what ACT wants to do says:

“Trying to rewrite and reinterpret the intentions of a document that was signed formally, legally, correctly, 160-70 years ago, it is simply unwise to put it very gently.”

And exactly which the Left have been doing (rewrite and reinterpret) through these ever-changing Treaty ‘principles’ for the last near 40 years! And which ACT is trying to correct!

For gods sake Bolger. Just shut up and stop embarrassing yourself.

I see the person who calls herself a journalist didn’t pick up on it either.
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November 9, 2023 4:43pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  Bolger was always the perfect fit for National; a Chairman Of The Board type.
  
  But National Party people couldn’t care less as he won them three terms in power.
  
  I see the person who calls herself a journalist didn’t pick up on it either.
  Not as smart as she’s sold to us – but if she had picked up on it she still would have said nothing because she agrees with this Narrative around TOW and this particular referendum. It’s why the story is sold as “two former PM’s….”
  
  If you enjoy irony there’s also the fact that National is quite happy to have the Left wage this culture war while it has people who say:
  “…. the National Party does not do culture wars.”
  
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  November 10, 2023 7:09am
Maggy Wassilieff

Surprise, surprise.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/school-attendance-more-than-half-of-students-not-regularly-attending-in-term-2-2023/QDSV6SPBWJECJC2AV4PDM23RQM/
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November 9, 2023 5:01pm
- Ghost
  
  It’s ok they can grow up and get jobs with the electoral commission doing the data entry for the votes. Oh wait, maybe that’s who they hired to do it……
  
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  November 9, 2023 5:06pm
Jack5

Justice Whata, in the Court of Appeal, has axed a preventive detention sentence on a particularly brutal rapist.

The scumbag now has a minimum parole period of seven years and six months.

The Herald says the sentence was reduced educed after the agreed to hear new evidence from a “neuropsychologist” that said Heke-Gray suffered from foetal alcohol spectrum disorder

Our justice system is tilted heavily towards the welfare of offenders.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crime/northland-rapist-jessie-heke-gray-has-prison-sentence-reduced/U7BZ4DT2NNCZNDPGL53OYK3574/

Here’s an explanation from the Net about what “neuropsychologists” do. I found interesting the paragraph under the heading, “Typical neuropsychological procedures.”

https://www.healthline.com/health/neuropsychologist#typical-procedures
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November 9, 2023 5:15pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  As my partner said…..No surprise to see Justice Whata’s name pop up again.
  
  —————————————————–
  
  “Was it him again BooBoo?”
  
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  November 9, 2023 6:27pm
Jack5

Edit: The Herald says the sentence was ~~reduced educed after~~ reduced after the Court agreed to hear new evidence from a “neuropsychologist”…

My apologies.
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November 9, 2023 5:24pm
Jack5

TVNZ continued its racist bias tonight.

A report on the Transport Agency’s plans for transport signs to be in Maori belittled the majority of those who had made submissions on the issue.

They were the majority because they had used a format provided by some group, the reporter said.

What use is a State TV that broadcasts in English if it is out to force Maori language on the 95 per cent of the country’s citizens who speak English?

Let TVNZ put its transmitters where its forked tongue is and broadcast its TV in Maori language!
7 0
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November 9, 2023 6:42pm
- graham
  
  TVNZ were making out that – for some vague, unstated reason – it was some sort of crime for people to use a template to base their submissions on.
  
  Which is somewhat surprising, as the use of standard templates, form letters, and guides is commonplace within business and politics.
  
  They also stated that of those submissions which didn’t use the template, 60% were in favour of having road signs in English and Maori. Meaning that 40% were not. I wonder what the overall numbers are of all submissions – irrespective of whether they used a template or not?
  
  (Incidentally, I also wonder how many of those people who submitted in favour also used some form of template?)
  
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  November 9, 2023 9:17pm
Maggy Wassilieff

FFS!

The ballot box had been left at the Commission’s East Coast office.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/133268132/electoral-commission-says-a-ballot-box-was-missed-in-official-count
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November 9, 2023 6:48pm
- Ghost
  
  He was on ZB. Heather asked if he would resign over this election, he wouldn’t answer her. She asked if it was wrong having a booth in the Marae of a candidate, again he didn’t seem to comprehend it.
  
  5 0
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  November 9, 2023 6:59pm
  - Colville
    
    To me the Marae voting booth should mean a resignation rapidly followed by a voiding of the result followed by a bi-election.
    
    Greens stand aside to give Labour the easy win? or maybe not!
    
    4 0
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    November 9, 2023 7:07pm
- greybeard
  
  You can just imagine what the officials are like.
  Steeped in maori folk-lore , steeped in alcohol and totally thick.
  
  4 1
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  November 9, 2023 7:00pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  THE TREATS ARE ON US 😛
  
  WOW! If we’d known about this, even we would have headed out to Manurewa….
  
  https://twitter.com/fundypost/status/1722435639537467609
  
  8 1
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  November 9, 2023 7:25pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Wow! If that’s a real post then I’d say it falls under the definition of ‘treating’.
    
    Mr Electoral Commissioner: do your job!
    
    5 0
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    November 9, 2023 7:43pm
    - Ghost
      
      Go listen to heather this afternoon, she had him on, he’s was asked if they would allow such a set up next time, he didn’t seem to have an issue. She also asked if he would resign, he had one job and the election has had numerous problems, again, no issue
      
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      November 9, 2023 9:26pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

This is what Mike Obama will bring us under the guidance of Barry.

https://www.thepoliticalglobe.com/unveiling-the-veil-obamas-stance-on-israel-and-hamas/?

And:
https://twitter.com/MichaelT_47/status/1721685923417522441?
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November 9, 2023 7:20pm
kevn

SteveO… Mike America Great Again = MAGA ?
BBB = Bye Bye Biden ?
2 1
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November 9, 2023 8:34pm
Ghost

Not even one Muslim will come to Poland if it’s illegal. This is why Poland is safe….

https://youtube.com/shorts/arOhQEvgxbE?si=k2cUNKUWuNbcWJ9n
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November 9, 2023 10:27pm

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