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October 31, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 31 October 2023

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Chuck Bird

An excellent article by Chris Trotter. There are some reasonable people on the left. Not many but some

Failing the “Leftist” litmus test

https://democracyproject.substack.com/p/failing-the-leftist-litmus-test
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October 31, 2023 8:06am
- Matt Long
  
  I’m pleased Chris can recognise the “progressives” are fascists.
  
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  October 31, 2023 8:12am
- nathie
  
  Trotter lays it out well.
  
  Sadly the likes of the Greens won’t see nor accept they have become the new fascists and pawns of Iran.
  
  Speaking of which it is incredibly sad to see the likes of Golriz (and Marama) lock step in alignment with the undemocratic and totalitarian Iranian regime – their lack of self awareness of this is a disgrace.
  
  And they can’t claim otherwise, because where is their nuance and acceptance that Israelis are also victims of Palestinian terrorism?
  
  So here they are, the authoritarian far-left, in Parliament and being cheered on by the MSM (and grooming naive young voters).
  
  Imagine the outcry and disgust if the authoritarian far-right were in Parliament …
  
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  October 31, 2023 8:56am
  - plc
    
    Stalin’s “Useful Idiots”
    
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    October 31, 2023 10:27am
  - KH
    
    What is Nathie on about. Golriz is not in lockstep with Iran. She is the NZ MP who most condemns the Iran government.
    Yes, she is a Greenie etc, but does not hold back on Iran.
    
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    October 31, 2023 12:49pm
    - sirknz
      
      Golriz supports Hamas. Hamas is also supported by Iran.
      
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      October 31, 2023 1:26pm
    - grumpy
      
      Golriz has form supporting genocidal maniacs.
      
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      October 31, 2023 1:53pm
- Lee C
  
  Oh. My. Gosh.
  
  Has the penny finally dropped?
  
  I invite Mr. Trotter to go back over the carnal aspects of ‘progressive politics’ for the past five years, and join some other dots:
  
  State funded media-interference.
  Election interference.
  Indictments.
  “Black Lives Matter”
  White Supremacy.
  Covid.
  “The enemy within”.
  
  Why, it’s almost as if a pattern is emerging.
  
  Remember: “If it walks like a duck..”
  
  Perhaps we need to revisit who we trust?
  
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  October 31, 2023 10:33am
Matt Long

Was the Seven Ten massacre a false flag operation?
It hasn’t taken long for the normal tropes about the atrocities to come out; it was deserved, it didn’t happen, and lately it was a Netanyahu/Mossad operation. Because apparently Netanyahu loves war and programs so much.
How could Mossad be unaware? How were they unaware of the coming of the Yom Kippur war?
Intelligence is imperfect.
Israel has just been through the most turbulent time politically with five elections in the last five years. The elected centre right Government is in conflict with a leftist activist judiciary and the political left have been flexing their muscles to ensure the judiciary is able to continue to favour them by overturning government decisions.
Hamas has been playing a clever game, giving the impression they are looking to open up to peace, promoting tourism, expanding the number of workers going into Israel.
https://x.com/imshin/status/1717807744143839579?s=20
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October 31, 2023 8:08am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Maybe Netanyahu was too focussed on destroying his constitution and had Mossad doing ‘other’ things?
  
  Who knows….
  
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  October 31, 2023 8:14am
- kowtow
  
  When you see how very quickly certain people can become enraged to the point of irrational violence ( passive or aggressive) , from Dagastan airports to the streets of Auckland and London one needs to understand that very evil puppet masters are at play here .
  
  Iran.
  
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  October 31, 2023 8:17am
  - leoj
    
    Iran should be Israel’s focus.
    
    Iran needs a big message and suddenly, the rest of Israel’s middle east enemies would also get the message.
    
    Hamas and Gaza are distractions. Netanyahu is right to ignore world pressure and do what needs to be done. A cease-fire is not the answer. That would just embolden Hamas who need to be totally destroyed.
    
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    October 31, 2023 10:26am
    - G152
      
      Until there is an unconditional surrender by Irans tools Israel should keep attacking and saying nothing
      
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      October 31, 2023 11:49am
  - NothingLeft
    
    putting the ‘fun’ and the ‘mentalism’ into genocidal fundamentalism
    
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    October 31, 2023 2:51pm
  - waikatosinger
    
    I blame the evil puppets.
    
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    October 31, 2023 3:23pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Take out the supplier, not the supplies, and it will stop.
    
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    October 31, 2023 4:03pm
- Scott
  
  The Hamas massacre was most certainly not a false flag operation but another illustration of their real attitude towards the Jews.
  The Hamas charter is very clear, here is Article 13 –
  ” [Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith…
  There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad.”
  
  Read the last sentence again. That’s the real Hamas. “There is no solution but jihad.”
  Can’t we now believe them? Can’t we now understand they really mean what they say?
  
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  October 31, 2023 8:22am
- artemisia
  
  People, organisations and countries supporting Gaza and its terrorists are certainly lining up with arms wide open to receive asylum seekers escaping war. Just needs Egypt to open the gate and make sure the buses are ready to transport the refugees into the welcoming non-Egyptian arms.
  
  Waiting…
  
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  October 31, 2023 8:52am
  - Lance
    
    Jordan made that mistake once, it ended badly for all concerned, especially for the Palestinians who thought it was a good idea to overthrow the Jordanian monarchy.
    
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    October 31, 2023 11:44am
Chuck Bird

I heard Hipkins talk to Hosking this morning on the subject. He is saying that Israel does not have a right to self-defence if it means any non combatents who human shields die.
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October 31, 2023 8:16am
- Matt Long
  
  Hipkins comes under Chris Trotter’s description of the people who think they’re leftist but are fascists.
  To the left Jews don’t deserve the right to self defence.
  
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  October 31, 2023 8:31am
- All_on_Red
  
  Hipkins (and certain others on here) should read this.
  ‘The logic equating the October 7 murders with civilian deaths in Gaza was tested in Nuremberg in the ’40s. It was rejected without hesitation’
  
  The Judges at Nuremburg said this;
  “A city is bombed for tactical purposes… it inevitably happens that nonmilitary persons are killed. This is an incident, a grave incident to be sure, but an unavoidable corollary of battle action. The civilians are not individualized. The bomb falls, it is aimed at the railroad yards, houses along the tracks are hit and many of their occupants killed. But that is entirely different, both in fact and in law, from an armed force marching up to these same railroad tracks, entering those houses abutting thereon, dragging out the men, women and children and shooting them.”
  https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-nazi-case-for-hamas/
  
  Of course those ‘certain others’ will dispute this with their whataboutism but that’s because they are Jew hating bigots.
  
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  October 31, 2023 8:33am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Sadly, it appears that Luxon agrees with Hipkins although Seymour appears not to.
    
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    October 31, 2023 8:39am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Well, I heard Luxon last week say the Israelis have every right to defend themselves as long is it is done legally, I can’t see him change his mind in 5 days
      
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      October 31, 2023 9:00am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        It depends on the interpration of the law. I tend to agree with AoR and his link.
        
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        October 31, 2023 9:54am
      - leoj
        
        Hamas doesn’t give a rat’s arse about “legally”.
        
        You can’t pussy foot around with animals like Hamas.
        
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        October 31, 2023 10:30am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        G – Hipkins is an asshole, but you’re correct. I heard him say this morning that Israel has the right to defend themselves and that the attacks on Israel by Hamas are horrific. He was pushed by the muppet Matty McClean to call for a ceasefire and he wouldn’t do it.
        
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        October 31, 2023 10:36am
    - Inandout
      
      CB, those are politicians you mention and will go whichever way the wind blows. Yes I know Luxon is corporate and not political like Hipkins but NZ is in horrendous debt and so must somewhat toe the line with lenders.
      
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      October 31, 2023 9:22am
      - Paulus
        
        But is Hipkins any longer relevant to New Zealand.
        He thinks he is, but there is nobody else in Labour for a few weeks until the Unions decide after the New Year.
        Must be a women anyway and he is not quite !
        
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        October 31, 2023 1:25pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      He was talking about the international war crimes tribunal laws
      
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      October 31, 2023 11:29am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Stop trying to use the ‘Jew hating bigots’ trope to stifle any opinion that doesn’t fully align with yours. There’s been too much of that for far too long and it’s the usual illogical and nonsensical smearing and tarring everyone in an attempt to shut people up.
    
    Disclaimer, not that I should have to fucking give one, but I totally support Israel’s right to defend itself and I totally condemn the brutal attacks by Hamas.
    We’re not discussing that aspect of this nightmare, we’re talking about your utterly nonsensical attempts to paint anyone who is horrified by war and in particular, the murder of civilians as being ‘anti semetic’ or ‘Jew hating’. You’re trying to put people alongside the Nazis and the SS and that is a lie.
    
    Opposing the massive death of innocent people of any faith does NOT make anyone ‘pro’ or ‘anti’ anything. It certainly doesn’t make people ‘Jew hating bigots’. That’s a bald faced and deliberate smear which helps nobody. The same as the ‘anti vaxxer’ and ‘granny killer’ garbage we were bombarded with for a few years.
    
    As for your assertion re comments at the Nuremberg trials. Totally nonsensical.
    
    Dresden wasn’t about bombing railway yards. It deliberate targeting of the civilian population.
    
    From the man in charge.
    
    In 1941, (Air Chief Marshall Arthur ‘bomber’) Harris had said that he had been intentionally bombing civilians for a year. “I mention this,” he said, “because, for a long time, the Government, for excellent reasons, has preferred the world to think that we still held some scruples and attacked only what the humanitarians are pleased to call ‘military targets.’ I can assure you, gentlemen, that we tolerate no scruples.”
    
    https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/the-bombing-of-dresden-was-the-attack-fully-justified/
    
    You mention ‘whataboutism’ – yes, the Germans bombed civilian populations in Britain. Does that make the bombing of German civilians acceptable? I don’t think so. Going down that path of excusing ever increasingly abhorrent responses will undoubtedly lead to the extinction of our species. Maybe that’s what we deserve?
    
    Hiroshima and Nagasaki were deliberate targeting of civilians, or are you going to try and dispute that?
    The firebombing of Tokyo which killed more than the 2 atom bombs combined, was that ‘collateral damage’? No, it was deliberate targeting of civilians.
    
    Knowingly bombing civilians from a distance isn’t any different to marching into their houses and slaughtering them face to face. Like a sniper shooting someone from half a mile away, you get to avoid directly seeing the consequences of your actions. The bravery of being far away.
    
    The world is in a terrible place right now. It is far more dangerous than it was during the Cuban Missile Crisis. There is no binary pov, there is no right or wrong. All deliberate killing of civilians is wrong.
    Cycles of violence become cycles of violence for a reason, and the only people who win out of it are those at the rear pressing the buttons, the weapons manufacturers and their shareholders and the scumbags on all sides who believe their actions are justified.
    
    I said once before, all those who feel the need to slaughter those you disagree with, put your hands up, find a big island somewhere, you can all head over there and have at it for as long as it takes, but stop justifying the killing of people everywhere who have nothing to do with any of this madness.
    
    I oppose all slaughter of innocents. I don’t take sides. Stop trying to paint everyone who won’t agree with you as ‘jew haters’. It’s nauseating and it is dangerous rhetoric.
    
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    October 31, 2023 10:29am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Clan,
      
      Well said.
      
      If the winds of opinion favoured Hamas, ninety percent of people, including posters to this site, would agree with them.
      
      Ignorance is bliss.
      
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      October 31, 2023 11:16am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Oh bullshit
        If you think 90% here favour Hamas given their butchery you are wrong.
        
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        October 31, 2023 1:20pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        AoR,
        
        Read the post
        
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        October 31, 2023 1:50pm
    - Grunter
      
      Well said Clan.
      
      I’ve resisted making any comments on KB regards the Middle East as almost all of it is rubbish – similar to a lot of the Ukraine banter.
      
      The natural instinct is to pick a side and use the Hollywood mentality of “good guys vs bad guys”. That way you keep it simple – but unfortunately it never is. There are no “Good Guys” in any of this.
      
      The world is on-track for a major global war that quickly spirals out of control (think back to the start of WW1, but this time with nukes). Good luck picking the “goodies from the baddies” in coming years.
      
      Consider for instance Turkey. Right smack-bang in the middle of Ukraine and Gaza. They are part of NATO and have US bases and US nukes. They are chummy with Russia, and they hate Israel. So what is Turkey going to do when (not if) Israel flattens their Muslim mates in Gaza?
      
      This is all part of the same sihtshow that is now too far down the track for anyone to stop. Maybe I’m wrong with that conclusion…….happy to listen to the logical solution to stop further escalation by these nut jobs.
      
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      October 31, 2023 11:20am
      - All_on_Red
        
        ‘major global war’
        Between who?
        Not Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Oman, UAE, China, Russia, Kuwait etc.
        Turkey might posture but they will do nothing.
        Lebanon is just doing skirmish’s and are afraid they will be bomber back to the stoneage
        Which leaves Iran.
        And they cant project force from where they are.
        So what GLOBAL WAR?
        
        I think the problem Grunter, is that you have no idea about global politics and talk a lot of crap.
        
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        October 31, 2023 1:26pm
      - Grunter
        
        All On Red
        As usual – you have blinded me with your logic and critical thinking…..
        
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        October 31, 2023 2:10pm
      - waikatosinger
        
        Certain situations require us to pick a side. We can acknowledge that it is an imperfect world and there are no good solutions. We can lament the cost of the choices we make. Regardless we must make a choice and pick a side. Not doing so; sitting back and wringing your hands and saying everyone is bad; abrogates your responsibility to make choices and take action in the world. If you refuse to make a choice you become an ineffectual wimp of no consequence.
        
        As I see it there can be no peace so long as Hamas is in control of any territory near Israel. Thus the war must continue until that is no longer the case. Since Hamas hides behind civilians and hostages that means a lot of innocent people are going to die. I don’t like that but I cannot see an alternative.
        
        Hamas have made it clear that they will not stop short of the annihilation of the Jews or the annihilation of Hamas. By their intransigence they force us to choose one of these two options. I support the second. The world would be a much better place without Hamas in it.
        
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        October 31, 2023 3:39pm
    - Mark
      
      Your assertion about the deliberate targetting of civilians in the bombing of Dresden is fair. My father was a 4Group Bomber Pilot who were used as a diversionary attack during the Dresden Operation bombing an Oil refinery at Bohlen some 40K west of Dresden. it was expected that fighter defence would be diverted to cover his attack and leave Dresden open. His comment on the railyard target claim was that if that were true they would have used 500 and 1000 lb heavy bombs not phosperous fire bombs.
      
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      October 31, 2023 11:38am
    - bennerg
      
      We are dealing with the reality of debased human nature (=Hamas, ISIS etc), and it will not end well, whatever. Using civilians (whom they appear not to treasure the way the rest of the world would) as human shields, and as pawns in their one eyed view of reality.
      
      Sadly history has shown the only way to rid the the region of these terrible people, is by using a strategy used in medicine for cancer – with chemotherapy and radiation. It kills a lot of good cells as part of the process, but is the only way we have found to get rid of cancer.
      
      A ceasefire only favours the one’s who do not play by the rules. And in the end more people will die by not dealing to the problem now.
      
      I wish we lived in a world that allowed all people to live in peace and freedom. For sure that is not how Hamas and the radical religious philosophy they promote sees the world.
      
      We cannot affect how the Gaza situation turns out, we can only make sure it does not infect our country along the way. As our forefathers spoke “lest we forget”.
      
      PS: Where are the world leaders reaching out to request Hamas return the hostages, and give up their arms? Even in return for support. I hear crickets. Just askin’.
      
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      October 31, 2023 11:55am
    - KH
      
      Excellent Clan.
      
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      October 31, 2023 12:53pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        And here is one of those whose anti semitism has been very much on display.
        And ignorance too.
        
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        October 31, 2023 1:19pm
    - Dave
      
      Your argument rests on a sharp distinction between innocent civilians and not-so-innocent soldiers.
      
      This is a useful distinction to make, but does have its problems. Soldiers can fight in the frontlines only because food, clothing, medicines, munitions are produced, delivered and paid for by civilians, who might also give political support to the government waging war in their name. To what extent was Joe Blow, drafted from a farm in the US more deserving of death than a Japanese civilian sewing uniforms for Japanese soldiers.
      
      Hiding among civilians and launching weapons from civilian sites, as Hamas does, is a war crime increasing the likelihood of civilian deaths inflicted by opposing combatants using the tools of modern warfare.
      
      In 1945, the US was eager to end the war with Japan, but any method it used – blockade, bombing, invasion – would have inevitably caused a huge number of Japanese civilian deaths. Meanwhile, perhaps 100-300,000 non-Japanese Asians, mostly Chinese, were dying EACH MONTH because of the war. Did they also deserve to die?
      
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      October 31, 2023 12:54pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      FFS, I’m not trying to stifle opinions.
      You’re reading something which isnt there.
      This is not the first time youve claimed this bullshit.
      I am (correctly) pointing out that many here hide their anti semitisim behind their whataboutery.
      Do you want me to name names?
      
      And I was directly quoting Judges from the actual Nuremburg Trials so your nonsensical comment is just ignorant.
      
      [Mod – debate without making it personal]
      
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      October 31, 2023 1:18pm
      - Grunter
        
        “…..[Mod – debate without making it personal]…..”
        
        AOR debating without making it personal – Ha! Joke of the day Mod….. Good luck with that
        
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        October 31, 2023 2:16pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        AoR – what do you think I read that isn’t there?
        
        I pointed out that the judge’s position at Nuremberg was completely wrong. It was narrative control and propaganda to justify Allied war crimes towards the end of the war. The decisions to attack civilian targets were calculated. Done to inflict insufferable civilian casualties to end the war quickly.
        Don’t try and pretend it was anything other than that. Some people think this is acceptable behaviour. Not many, but some.
        
        It’s the same with the Israeli conflict in Gaza.
        The Times of Israel attempting to use this fallacious Nuremburg argument to justify Israeli strikes on the civilian population doesn’t make it any more true. They might be trying to hit specific targets, but they know they are inflicting thousands of civilian casualties. They are very angry and understandably. But don’t make excuses for it.
        
        YOU used the comments of the judge as some sort of slam dunk proof that the thousands of civilian deaths are collateral damage and acceptable.
        
        You ARE trying to stifle opinion, possibly not deliberately, but it’s exactly what you are doing.
        
        You said:
        
        Of course those ‘certain others’ will dispute this with their whataboutism but that’s because they are Jew hating bigots.
        
        That anyone who disputes that Nuremburg excuse for targeting civilians is a ‘Jew hating bigot’. It’s a ludicrous statement and nothing more than a crude smear and attempted intimidation of anyone else’s opinion.
        
        Because someone disagrees with that doesn’t make them ‘Jew hating’.
        No more than someone opposed to coerced or mandated vaccination is an ‘anti vaxxer’.
        
        The two things aren’t mutually exclusive.
        
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        October 31, 2023 2:32pm
    - ISeeRed
      
      Yawn. Everyone opposes “the slaughter of innocents”. That’s as controversial and virtuous as being against world hunger or child poverdy. When facing a foe that wishes every last Jew dead, just WTF can Israel do? There is no concession Israel can make to genocidal jihadis except commit nationwide suicide.
      
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      October 31, 2023 2:10pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        ISeeRed – oh fuck it then, let’s drop all the pretence about ‘Rules based international order’, dump the moronic ‘Geneva Conventions’ and get rid of the idiotic term ‘war crimes’.
        
        Obviously throw away the whole concept of banning weapons of any kind like depleted uranium and cluster bombs. Oh, that’s right, we already did that in Ukraine.
        
        In fact let’s stop all pretence of being ‘civilised’. Clearly we’re only out of the slime about half an hour. Time for a massive anything goes, free for all slaughter festival until there’s only one person left.
        
        Hey! We’ll have a winner!! //
        
        I like you’re thinking…….
        
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        October 31, 2023 2:44pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        @Clan You dodged the question. What can Israel do to be left alone in peace? Remember, their enemies don’t really want land, compensation, a peace treaty, a two-state solution etc. They want the Jews, all the Jews, everywhere, dead dead dead.
        
        Now, Clan, instead of posing and posturing or hyperbolic overreactions, tell us your, er, finalised resolution to the unending genocidal hatred that Israel’s enemies relish and cherish.
        
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        October 31, 2023 3:05pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        ISeeRed – well the great political leaders of the world have been trying to find a solution to a complex problem going back a couple of thousand years, the latest attempt at a solution being via the Sykes Picot and Balfour agreements. Why do you think I should have a solution???
        
        Because I don’t have a ‘solution’ doesn’t mean I can’t point out the absurdity of anyone killing civilians and thinking that somehow it will fix your problem. I’ve said it plenty of times. I detest all and sundry who blithely think collateral damage is unavoidable and ‘just one of those things’.
        
        It will come back to bite you at some point in the future. It always does. Unless you see genocide of one group over the other as a ‘solution’? If so, the sooner we nuke our whole species out of existence the better.
        
        I don’t need to come up with a solution to justify this position. It’s a statement of fact, not an opinion.
        
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        November 1, 2023 8:31am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Let’s not forget Hipkins is impotent now. Although these weasels gave more money to Vanuatu yesterday, how does that work
  
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  October 31, 2023 8:57am
  - Jack5
    
    Who chose NZ’s vote on the Gaza war? Was it defeated Labour politicians?
    
    Last Friday, NZ voted in favour of the UN resolution calling for an “immediate, durable and sustained humanitarian truce leading to a cessation of hostilities.”
    
    Australia, the UK and Canada were among the 45 countries that abstained.
    
    The 14 countries that voted against the resolution included the United States, Israel, Fiji, Tonga, Papua New Guinea, Austria, Hungary.
    
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    October 31, 2023 10:44am
- Wayne Mapp
  
  Chuck,
  
  As you well know, Hipkins did not say that. He said the defence had to be proportionate and take care not to target civilians or cause disproportionate casualties among them. Which is a one of the laws of armed conflict. You have then interpreted that to say that no civilians should die.
  
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  October 31, 2023 9:04am
  - All_on_Red
    
    How does one be ‘proportionate’ against those who rape, burn, shoot, stab, decapitate and torture women, children and babies?
    
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    October 31, 2023 9:10am
    - Inandout
      
      AoR, exactly, a ridiculous term to use in this context.
      
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      October 31, 2023 9:23am
    - Cassandra
      
      Avoid killing those not involved if possible. Avoid schools, hospitals, aid agencies, Red Cescent vehicles, again if possible. Do not use a 2,000 kg bomb when a 100 kg would do the task. Which is what the IDF will do.
      
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      October 31, 2023 9:25am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Cas,
        
        “Do not use a 2,000 kg bomb when a 100 kg would do the task. Which is what the IDF will do”
        
        Unfortunately that is highly unlikely.
        When the target is inhabited solely by the enemy, collateral damage is rarely a consideration .
        
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        October 31, 2023 11:24am
      - NothingLeft
        
        Hamas has, as a matter of policy, constructed it’s administrative and other military facilities inside and under schools, hospitals and other ‘innocent’ structures.
        
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        October 31, 2023 3:04pm
      - waikatosinger
        
        Hamas hide in tunnels under buildings. A 100kg bomb might take out the building. To collapse the tunnel under the building you need something bigger.
        
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        October 31, 2023 4:02pm
    - kiwikidsnz
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      “Those” don’t include the thousands of Palestinian children who have died ( half the recent casualties).
      https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/23/gaza-death-toll-exceeds-5000-as-israel-continues-daily-bombardments#:~:text=Nearly%205%2C100%20Palestinians%20have%20been,ago%2C%20according%20to%20health%20officials.
      
      The leaders & combatants are all committing war crimes. Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territory is also a war crime.
      
      Caution NSFW
      https://youtu.be/L0Zb9iUi0JM?feature=shared
      
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      October 31, 2023 9:25am
      - Matt Long
        
        And your figures come from whom?
        Do they include the 500 killed at the hospital? Interesting story there.
        https://x.com/PronouncedHare/status/1718424194164425110?s=20
        
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        October 31, 2023 9:49am
      - RoboRob
        
        ‘Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territory is also a war crime’
        
        Care to explain where Palestinian territory ends, so we can understand what the occupied territory is?
        
        My understanding is that, by Palestinian definition, that would be all of the area currently considered Israel. I believe the line chanted around the world by the confused left an Muslims is ‘Remove the Jews from the river to the sea’.
        
        Oh and occupation of enemy territory isn’t a war crime, its just war. Don’t think Israel is at war? Check the charter of Hamas….
        
        ’..the obliteration or dissolution of Israel’
        
        “There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.
        
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        October 31, 2023 9:54am
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      If targeting the military target (Hamas) would kill large numbers of civilians relative to the importance of the target, that would be disproportionate. For instance to kill say a Hamas commander you had to kill 20 or 30 civilians that would be disproportionate. You would have to wait for another opportunity. This is particularly so for the rank and file Hamas fighters who are not high value targets (yes, they might also be murderers) but the laws of armed conflict still apply.
      On the bigger picture, can Israel really eliminate Hamas without utterly destroying Gaza and say 100,000 dead? I would say highly unlikely. At some point there will be a ceasefire before that happens.
      
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      October 31, 2023 10:10am
      - Matt Long
        
        That’s an interesting argument Wayne, so for a high quality target, say five civilians?
        And the child soldiers and people launching the rockets are they soldiers? Where’s the cutoff for a child soldier to be treated as an adult under international law?
        
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        October 31, 2023 10:36am
      - RoboRob
        
        What’s your solution Wayne?
        
        Let Palestinians manage Gaza themselves, tried and failed.
        
        Israel base soldiers in Gaza and try and run it, tried and failed.
        
        Two state solution? So a reward for the brutal assault on woman and children. Enter a deal with an organisation whose goal is the eradication of all Israel ‘from the river to the sea’.
        
        Seems to me Israel has little choice but to try and destroy Hamas. Don’t think Hamas and Iran didn’t know that when they launched their attack on Israel and stationed their weapons near (or under) Schools, churches and hospitals.
        
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        October 31, 2023 11:13am
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        I’m of a mind to agree with you Wayne, but also know there is no proportionality in war. Ever. Bad things happen to bad people, and unfortunately bad things happen to good people. Also, if a woman was butchered by having her belly cut open and unborn child removed and similarly butchered, what is a proportionate response to that? Find a similarly pregnant woman in Gaza and commit same atrocity? Kill 5 civilians whilst hunting Hamas? Or killing 500 civilians whilst hunting Hamas? Who get’s to decide what is proportional? Someone who’s civilian population hasn’t been attacked? The questions, the bloody, terrible questions.
        
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        October 31, 2023 12:37pm
      - artemisia
        
        So what if the civilians elect to stay with Hamas troops. Because they completely agree with the jihad and are willing, even longing, to be martyrs.
        
        Looking at the global ‘from the river to the sea’ demonstrations, including here, it is clear there is a large movement supporting jihad. How much more so devout Muslims in Gaza.
        
        I suggest that changes the disproportionate argument.
        
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        October 31, 2023 1:21pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        Are there any innocent Gazans? Very young population (Average 18yrs old), heavily indoctrinated by Jihadist state. Their naiive and impressionable children and teenagers will likely nearly all be enthusiastic about butchering Jews, just as North Koreans are rabidly anti-American.
        
        The only way Israel will ever get long term peace is annexing Gaza and by banishing all Gazans – dump them on anyone who hurls missiles at them. Then wait 50 years.
        
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        October 31, 2023 3:13pm
    - kowtow
      
      If you think about it , the political establishment across the west does the same thing to its own civilians daily .
      
      They’ve gone completely soft on crime and have let loose hell on our once civil society.
      
      And now the same politicians want Israel , which is the nation of Jews , once nearly exterminated , in living memory to be “proportionate” in the face of what was a genocidal terror assault , designed by its perpetrators and possibly procured by the Mullahs of Tehran , to destroy a peace process .
      
      The same political class want Turkey to be a member of the EU , and look at the genocidal pronouncements from there !
      
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      October 31, 2023 10:24am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Hammas yes, but the people did not do the raping and murdering, are you for real?
      
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      October 31, 2023 11:31am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Proportionate implies some sort of tit for tat revenge. Instead they are trying to remove the threat and prevent it happening again.
    
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    October 31, 2023 9:29am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Yes exactly. The announced military objective is to destroy Hamas.
      
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      October 31, 2023 10:04am
      - MCōs
        
        Good luck with that.
        
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        October 31, 2023 10:31am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        Benedict and artemisia,
        Israel can’t just bomb irrespective of the civilian casualty risk. They have to operate within the bounds of the law of armed conflict. No one actually questions that.
        Yes, Israel wants to destroy Hamas, but that may not be militarily possible without a disproportionate level of civilian casualties. Just because the civilian population are sympathisers of Hamas doesn’t make them legitimate targets. The military targets are the Hamas fighters and their organisations. They are an organised force and act as such, even though many are murderers. The general civilian population, irrespective of their sympathies, remain civilians.
        If Hamas can’t be destroyed then Israel will have to deal with them or at least with their proxies. They are going to have to do that to some extent because of the hostages.
        I note that Israel killed 1,500 Hamas within Israel. An extraordinary level of failure that the border was so poorly protected that literally thousands of Hamas could come across and wreak mayhem and murder.
        
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        October 31, 2023 2:16pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Wayne, I listened on playback. I suggest you do as well because the words “target Civilians” were not there.
    
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    October 31, 2023 9:39am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    This is what I sent to Brownlee. It sounds to me he is supporting calls for a cease fire. That to me and it appears Oz, UK and the USA and also Act have a different view.
    
    National’s policy on Israel’s right to self defense
    Sun, Oct 22, 2:23 PM (9 days ago)
    
    to Gerry
    Hi Gerry
    
    If this statement by you is correct you seem to think that Israel should stop trying to eliminate Hamas and try an negotiate with evil terrorists who gang rape woman and behead babies.
    
    I hope you will reconsider your position and follow Act’s policy on the conflict as well as that of the US, UK and Oz.
    
    Kind regards
    Chuck
    
    The National Party will not support a motion proposed by the Green Party regarding the current violence between Israel and the Palestine Authority (Hamas), National’s Foreign Affairs spokesperson Gerry Brownlee says.
    
    The Green Party is proposing a motion for Parliament to recognise and support the right of Palestine to self-determination and statehood and recognise the state of Palestine.
    
    “National’s position has consistently been in favour of the two state system,” Mr Brownlee says.
    
    “Despite the failure of talks over many years to achieve this, we are firmly of the view that it is the best solution to the extraordinary violence that has for a long time and currently is afflicting both Israelis and Arabs on the two sides of the argument.
    
    “It is our position that the two sides need to desist from the current violent engagement and get back to the table on talks that could lead to this two state solution that with commitment from both could bring peace to both states.”
    
    https://www.national.org.nz/national-opposes-greens-motion-on-israeli-palestinian-conflict
    
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    October 31, 2023 9:50am
    - Don Beckett
      
      So for how many years now has Israel tried to gain a commitment t peaceful negotiation with Hamas, Hezbollah & the other belligerent Arab states?
      Gaza was handed back to the Palestinians on the understanding of peace. So who was it, again, who have continually breached the peace ?
      The militant wing of the Palestinians have poked the bear once too often. Israel has run out of the ‘other cheek’ to turn, and are now attempting to excise the cancer – which I hope they can do successfully without too many civilian casualties.
      So come on, other Arab states – Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia – the world is looking at you to take your compadre refugees from Gaza; but all we are hearing is crickets.
      And Egypt – why are you holding back the truck convoys of food & medical aid at your border – then blaming Israel?
      ‘A wicked web that we weave, when first we learn to deceive.’ (or something like that)
      
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      October 31, 2023 10:21am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Don Beckett – apparently Israel helped in the creation of Hamas. If this isn’t accurate information please let me know. It seems authentic.
        
        This isn’t a conspiracy theory. Listen to former Israeli officials such as Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s. Segev later told a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat (who himself referred to Hamas as “a creature of Israel.”)
        
        “The Israeli government gave me a budget,” the retired brigadier general confessed, “and the military government gives to the mosques.”
        
        “Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” Avner Cohen, a former Israeli religious affairs official who worked in Gaza for more than two decades, told the Wall Street Journal in 2009. Back in the mid-1980s, Cohen even wrote an official report to his superiors warning them not to play divide-and-rule in the Occupied Territories, by backing Palestinian Islamists against Palestinian secularists. “I … suggest focusing our efforts on finding ways to break up this monster before this reality jumps in our face,” he wrote.
        
        https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
        
        Much like the US helped in the creation of the Taliban and the creation of ISIS.
        
        Along with the CIA assisting in getting Saddam Hussein into power, I have to wonder at what point do the 3D geopolitical chess players stop playing the game?
        Because apparently they are all crap at it and all they do is make innocent peoples’ lives a misery.
        
        I deplore violence and respect Israel’s right to defend itself. But if they are indiscriminately killing civilians it won’t fix anything.
        
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        October 31, 2023 11:18am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Hi Clan.
        I am certainly no authority on Israel & the origins of Hamas. I presume from your report that:
        ” Segev later told a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat.’
        That happened in the 1980’s & there were arguably political/military objectives for doing so. My guess is that Hamas became a pawn of the extremist Iran regime through the ’90’s after the Islamic revolution in Iran, & so became a dominant political & mitilary organisation.
        Israel handed Gaza back to the Palestinians in 2005 on the understanding of a peaceful – if symbiotic – co-existence. That has been constantly broken by Hamas.
        I am completely in sync with you last sentence.
        
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        October 31, 2023 11:36am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Proportionate to what?
    
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    October 31, 2023 10:03am
  - leoj
    
    “Proportionate” does not win anything.
    
    Hamas started this. They are only interested in wiping Israel off the map. Therefore, they should know that there will be consequences, taking on a more powerful force.
    
    The aim of war to kill your enemy, break things and most importantly, WIN. Hamas has not done their long-term homework and are now crying that Israel’s strength is unfair. Well, boo-hoo.
    
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    October 31, 2023 10:39am
    - Paulus
      
      And Putin and his pals in Teheran are smiling at the confusion they have now created.
      Take the media off Ukraine.
      
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      October 31, 2023 1:44pm
- grumpy
  
  Tellingly, Stuffed this morning reports on the murder of the German woman abducted by Hamas. They report about identification from a bone at the base of the neck and that IDF have retrieved the body but can’t quite bring themselves to disclose that the poor woman was beheaded………
  
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  October 31, 2023 9:06am
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Media is saying a ‘skull bone’ {sic} and the family suggesting it was a head shot, so at least she didn’t suffer (aside from the beating, humiliation and terror up until they blew her brains out)
    Slim info, but that is the online content.
    
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    October 31, 2023 11:38am
  - Greenbanana
    
    Beheaded…..
    Seems this word is taken too
    lightly. A guillotine can decapitate
    as can an axe or sword a la Henry
    V111 extremely quickly.
    Moving to the middle east, this now
    involves a victims hands being tied
    behind their back, head pulled back and their throat cut.Will bleed to death unless vertibrae is
    separated by knife and spinal cord
    cut.Then cut remaining tissue,hold head aloft and acclaim what a
    great warrior I am. If this also involves torture,rape and so forth
    all the better according to these scum and their supporters.
    
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    October 31, 2023 12:02pm
    - kowtow
      
      GB
      
      All to the frenzied , repeated acclamation “god is great” .
      
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      October 31, 2023 12:34pm
    - grumpy
      
      Herzog tells it as it is..
      https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1698670724-herzog-says-german-israeli-shani-louk-found-beheaded-in-gaza
      
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      October 31, 2023 2:10pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        I wonder how many here are familiar with the importance of the date of 7th. October?
        It was on that date, 7th. October 1571 that the Catholic fleet, under the command of Don Juan of Austria, defeated the Ottoman Muslim Naval fleet at the Battle of Lepanto – that greatest naval battle & defeat in history to that date. It caused the cessation of the Muslim dominance in the Meiterranean and stopped the naval attacks against Christian cities & regions.
        Likewise, with 9/11 – that date, 11th. September 1683 was the date of the Battle of Vienna, where the Polish Catholic army under Prince Jan Sobieski defeated the much larger Muslim Ottoman army which had been besieging Vienna for some months, and drove them back down the Balkan peninsular, thus preventing any further incursions into Europe.
        There are many other dates commemorating battles where Catholic armies defeated Muslim armies – that is why the Muslim extremists select those dates, to avenge & reverse their defeats as part of Jihad.
        
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        October 31, 2023 2:26pm
Master Mariner

“Jonathan Sumption: Why governments were wrong to fight Covid-19 with lockdowns | Q+A 2023”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp32jeZKnvs

Some great talking Points.
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October 31, 2023 8:17am
- kowtow
  
  There’s a real intellect , unlike the amoebas we had running this place through the authoritarian nightmare that was covid and is climate and race b/s.
  
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  October 31, 2023 10:26am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Exactly my thoughts too Kowtow.
    The Voices of Reason were cancelled, So why has the tune changed on NZ Media?
    
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    October 31, 2023 11:24am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Lord Jonathan Sumption is a former senior UK judge who has spoken out vociferously about the abuses of civil rights from the very beginning of the covid nightmare. A very smart man.
  
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  October 31, 2023 11:21am
  - kowtow
    
    And a noted historian.
    
    He knows his stuff .
    
    He is an expert , unlike the muppets that the regime/media paraded for us to consume.
    
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    October 31, 2023 12:35pm
jv

The Grocery Commissioner is “disappointed” – perhaps the most mindless legacy word from the Jacinda era.
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October 31, 2023 8:17am
- Swifty
  
  Is he frusdraded?
  
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  October 31, 2023 8:18am
  - pdm
    
    Absoludely frusdraded Swifty.
    
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    October 31, 2023 10:15am
    - Lee C
      
      As long as he doesn’t escalate to ‘judgeiness’, we should be safe in our beds, pdm.
      
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      October 31, 2023 10:37am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Fussdaded
    
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    October 31, 2023 10:30am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Right up there with the “unexpected” results of labour’s policy decusions on health, education, housing, energy and transport….
  
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  October 31, 2023 8:26am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Turns out it is not so easy to charge less than the supermarkets and still have a viable business. But I doubt there are enough people ready to learn that lesson and start trying to understand why.
  
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  October 31, 2023 8:27am
  - pdm
    
    I doubt there are many consumers ready to change their grocery shopping habits anyway.
    
    mrspdm and I won’t be.
    
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    October 31, 2023 8:48am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    If she had put up her prices to what the supermarkets sold items for, would she have been accused of excessive profits?
    
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    October 31, 2023 1:21pm
- I remember when
  
  Don’t tell me – this lowering the price of groceries isn’t going to as easy as they thought it would be.
  
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  October 31, 2023 8:31am
- artemisia
  
  A while back it was reported that My Food Bag was the third largest grocery supplier in New Zealand. Doesn’t that mean it is competition, albeit not aimed at low income households?
  
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  October 31, 2023 8:55am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    In some products there is extensive competition. Christchurch must have at least 20 fruit and vege shops, most of which are cheaper than supermarkets. Also Butchers and Asian grocery stores. Mitre 10 sells cleaning products, detergents, paper towels etc. All cheaper than supermarkets. About 70 percent of my “grocery” shopping is at outlets other than supermarkets.
    
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    October 31, 2023 10:11am
  - Jack5
    
    The poor performance of My Food Bag since listing on the NZ and Australian stock exchanges is evidence that the NZ grocery market is lucrative and a new major entrant wills end consumer prices diving.
    
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    October 31, 2023 11:01am
    - Jack5
      
      Edit: … is the opposite of evidence that the NZ grocery market is lucrative ….
      
      Sorry!
      
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      October 31, 2023 11:10am
    - artemisia
      
      More likely an overhyped and overpriced IPO. Good business model though – sales are known, and more importantly paid for, a week in advance. Good for local artisan industries that are engaged as suppliers as well. I’ve seen a few grow from small to medium and start supplying supermarkets.
      
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      October 31, 2023 3:06pm
I remember when

My eyes are dim I can not see – I must be a video referee!
Here’s what really happened.
Mbonambi was attempting to secure the ball from Taylor after the tackle.
Frizell sort of slid in from the side to prevent him doing so and so that he could remove him.
No injury occurred from this action.
However, Mbonambi lower leg was pinned by Frizell’s leg/s so that, when he tried to roll him out, it placed severe pressure on Mbonambi’s knee as it was twisted.
This is when the injury occurred.
There was no dropping on the leg and any contact caused by Frizell landing was from the side, was minimal and of no consequence.
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October 31, 2023 8:26am
- plc
  
  Doesn’t matter….we lost.
  
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  October 31, 2023 10:31am
  - I remember when
    
    plc:
    It isn’t about us losing, it is about the fact that, with what I presume are high definition replays, the TMOs constantly make this type of error.
    Why, one presumes it is so that they don’t run foul of either the referee adjudication system or the Rugby Union.
    So, they are not really looking at what is in front of them but are trying to get the result they think is expected from them.
    The one that will maintain their ranking.
    
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    October 31, 2023 12:33pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      In my opinion the TMOs consider themselves over and above the Referee.
      The Referee is one, plus two linesmen. The TMO is 7 I believe.
      
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      October 31, 2023 4:25pm
ClanMcleod

Some damning information being revealed right now on https://realitycheck.radio/

Talking about the information regarding risks from the jabs that the government were FULLY aware of but refused to tell the public.
If you can’t listen to it live then make sure you check out the replay later today.

It is shocking information showing that they knew EXACTLY what they were doing, that they knew that there was NO INFORMATION re the impact of this jab on immune compromised, frail and elderly, pregnant and breast feeding – in fact, those most at risk from death. Yet it was pushed on these people first.
That from the beginning, they KNEW there was a risk of anaphylaxis and VAED, that they very quickly KNEW there was risk of myocarditis and pericarditis. Yet they all pushed it as totally ‘safe and effective’. It was a deliberate lie.

More to the point, were National and Act aware of this? If not, they should be leading the outcry. It will be interesting to see how they respond to this horrific information.
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October 31, 2023 8:28am
- kowtow
  
  Ardern , Hipkins and Co used the populace as human shields for their looney lockdown regime.
  
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  October 31, 2023 8:37am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Should be in jail.
    
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    October 31, 2023 4:26pm
- Mummy
  
  When the vax first came out a close family member who is a nurse was nominated to be the official jabber for the institution she works for. As part of her training on how to do the jab itself, she had to do an advanced CPR course as well. So they knew all right that there would be cardiac issues, and instantly at that.
  
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  October 31, 2023 8:38am
  - leoj
    
    Hence, those jabbed were asked to wait for 20 minutes before leaving the facility.
    
    Surely, that was a red flag?
    
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    October 31, 2023 10:44am
    - Ghost
      
      It’s normal to wait after a vaccine. See them at the gp’s sitting and waiting after their flu shots, same with all baby vaccinations
      
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      October 31, 2023 11:17am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Ghost – this wasn’t a vaccine, even after they changed the dictionary definition.
        
        I know what I believe when I’m told I’m getting a vaccine, it’s something that gives me immunity from disease. Not something that “might make you a bit less sick”.
        
        The important thing is, nobody was given informed consent and nobody was told they were taking part in the biggest medical experiment in history.
        It was malfeasance and it was criminal activity. There will have to be accountability eventually. The sooner the better then we can move on. Not before.
        
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        October 31, 2023 11:31am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        quite right Clan.
        
        I’m waiting for the results of the coalition talks,
        
        I’ll kick into action if the TOW referendum or the covid inquiry are excluded..
        
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        October 31, 2023 5:27pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  And she ran.
  
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  October 31, 2023 8:38am
- Benedict Yu
  
  The “safe and effective” description of the vaccines was unprecedented. Doctors and surgeons never tell patients that a medicine or a surgical procedure is “safe” because all medicines and surgeries carry risks. For example, I take a drug that significantly reduces the ability of my blood to clot. It carries significant risks. However those risks are warranted when compared to the consequences of not taking the drug. My doctor explained this to me in detail.
  
  When I received the COVID vaccine, I do not recall any of the risks being explained. But critically I don’t recall the benefits being explained either. Perhaps because we later discovered that Pfizer had not determined whether or not the vaccine reduced the person to person transmission of the virus.
  
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  October 31, 2023 8:51am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Yes they were, they asked if you weee allergic to anything, and they stressed bee stings, if you were not, then you were not treated properly
    
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    October 31, 2023 9:08am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      G – that isn’t informed consent.
      
      Here’s a link to the Pfizer Risk Management Plan on the Medsafe website. Information that was available (but not communicated to the public) BEFORE the jabs were rolled out.
      
      https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/Comirnaty-RMP.pdf
      
      Pages 3 and 4 clearly identify the following risks.
      
      Anaphylaxis
      
      Myocarditis and Pericarditis
      
      The risk of myocarditis and pericarditis was added in June 2021. When did you get your jab? Were you told about this risk?
      
      The document states clearly that there is ‘missing information’ for the following groups of people.
      
      Use in pregnancy and while breast feeding
      
      Use in immunocompromised patients
      
      Use in frail patients with co-morbidities (e.g. chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), diabetes, chronic neurological disease, cardiovascular disorders)
      
      Use in patients with autoimmune or inflammatory disorders
      
      Interaction with other vaccines
      
      Long term safety data
      
      No long term safety data, no information on how it would work alongside other true vaccines? No information on the potential impact on the most vulnerable in society? Those we were apparently all ‘protecting’?
      
      Yet we were bombarded with a message that it was ‘safe and effective’. It was (and is) neither and there was ZERO informed consent.
      
      If you really want to dig deep into how aware they were that this garbage wasn’t sufficiently tested, here’s the long form document from the Medafe website.
      
      https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/datasheet/c/ComirnatyOriginalOmicronBA4-5inj.pdf
      
      A few excerpts.
      
      Hypersensitivity and anaphylaxis
      
      Events of anaphylaxis have been reported. Appropriate medical treatment and supervision
      should always be readily available in case of an anaphylactic reaction following the administration of the vaccine.
      
      Immunocompromised individuals
      
      The efficacy, safety and immunogenicity of the vaccine has not been assessed in immunocompromised individuals, including those receiving immunosuppressant therapy. The
      efficacy of the vaccine may be lower in immunosuppressed individuals.
      
      The data for use in the frail elderly (over 85) is limited. The potential benefits of vaccination
      versus the potential risk and clinical impact of even relatively mild systemic adverse events in
      the frail elderly should be carefully assessed on a case-by-case basis.
      
      The safety and efficacy of COMIRNATY Original/Omicron BA.1 in children aged less than
      12 years of age have not yet been established.
      
      I don’t think I need to post any more do I? There was NO informed consent. We were all lied to by our medical professionals, our politicians and the media.
      
      It was criminal activity, end of story.
      
      10 4
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      October 31, 2023 11:55am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Thrn get ya crew together and die Ardern for all her $25million
        
        4 2
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        October 31, 2023 1:41pm
  - Flossie
    
    After our jabs we were told to go and sit in an exit room, overseen by a nurse for 20 minutes just in case there were any adverse effects. Not sure what these effects might have been, or if they were explained prior to the jab.
    
    18 1
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    October 31, 2023 9:35am
    - gravedodger
      
      Understand it was mostly about anaphylaxis.
      Any invasion of a body by injection, a sting (bee wasp etc) or ingestion via mouth and intestinal tract carries a risk of overwhelming response that can be fatal.
      I am allergic to aspirin discovered when resorting to a hangover cure with Alka Seltzer containing aspirin leading to a seriously closing airway.
      
      10 1
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      October 31, 2023 10:59am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        gravedodger – it wasn’t mostly about anaphylaxis. It was the first in a long list of issues. Read my post above with links to the RMP and other documents on the Medsafe website.
        
        They KNEW they had minimal safety data, particularly for the most vulnerable who we were apparently saving.
        
        7 3
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        October 31, 2023 12:01pm
      - alan
        
        Are you a samters patient?
        
        0 1
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        October 31, 2023 12:02pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Having had an anaphylaxis attack I can tell you it is no fun. Suxamethonium Chloride was what caused it – nearly killed me.
        At the Covid vaccine jab site they have anaphylaxis kits. I checked before my first jab, I really needed to know this.
        Knowing what I know now, I would never have been vaxed. The Govt kept the information from us.
        
        And she ran.
        
        13 1
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        October 31, 2023 12:19pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Well I was asked about allergies and bee stings in particular, just like flu jab they ask if you are allergic to eggs
      
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      October 31, 2023 11:35am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Once again any medication has a risk of anaphylaxis, and I had two jabs and they did ask both times if you are allergic to the likes of bee stings, you also had to wait 20 minutes, once again this is the usual practice with any vaccination
  
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  October 31, 2023 9:05am
- Sacha
  
  The Head Man at Medsafe knew, but Ardern and her friends ignored him and followed the agenda set by the pandemic promoters and put the ‘fear of death’ into the people.
  
  13 3
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  October 31, 2023 9:45am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Sacha,
    
    “Ignored” is too soft a term.
    
    Ardern , with full knowledge of the available facts and with access to any and all relevant experts, not only rejected his advice , she willingly and knowingly did exactly the opposite .
    
    That isn’t ‘ignoring advice’, that is a premeditated criminal act.
    
    13 2
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    October 31, 2023 11:36am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      imalwaysright – indeed, as Thomas Cranmer/Philip Crump exposed, they deliberately removed important data re safety concerns, particularly in young people. This was no accident. This was no mistake.
      
      11 1
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      October 31, 2023 12:04pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Ardern is a lying coward.
      And she ran (get used to those words)
      
      9 1
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      October 31, 2023 12:21pm
      - mawm
        
        I prefer ‘she scurried away like a cockroach exposed to light’.
        
        4 0
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        October 31, 2023 6:30pm
hullkiwi

First job for the new Minister of Finance & Minister of State owned Enterprises.

Sell a government enterprise agency that has brought no discernible benefits to NZ & is a trading agency, sarc////

They must get rid of NIWA and its workforce of Northern Hemisphere trained scientists, who can’t give an accurate weather forecast until they have walked out their front door. Sarc////

For months they’ve been giving us forecast of El Nino coming with droughts etc. Well after 2 years of very wet weather in the North & two months of a very wet spring, the chances of a drought in the North are close to zero.

So, save the taxpayers some money, sell an agency, which as a govt trading agency, it does not appear to be serving any useful purpose!
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October 31, 2023 8:28am
- Taieri
  
  it does not appear to be serving any useful purpose!
  ————-
  
  But, it does!
  
  “NIWA promotes the importance and value of an inclusive and diverse workforce, including the Rainbow Community”.
  
  17 1
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  October 31, 2023 9:45am
  - hullkiwi
    
    We overlooked, reminding NZ of the constant threat of climate change & rising temperatures because of Global greenhouse gas emissions!
    
    5 1
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    October 31, 2023 2:03pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    They have gone from telling us the planet boiling is manmade to blaming it on some Mexican kid.
    Poor El.
    
    5 0
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    October 31, 2023 2:07pm
- Matt Long
  
  There’s still time for a drought, but I always thought NIWA’s forecasts are to be taken with a grain of salt, our recent worst drought in a generation was during axso called neutral year.
  
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  October 31, 2023 9:53am
- Countrygirl
  
  I find this site as accurate as any.
  https://www.yr.no/en/forecast/daily-table/2-2186223/New%20Zealand/New%20Zealand
  So a world away they have a better idea of what we should expect than NIWA does.
  
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  October 31, 2023 4:21pm
rouppe

Go woke, go broke

The worst performer over the quater was Kernel’s S&P Global Clean Energy Fund, at negative 18.1%. Over the year, the worst performance was in Koura’s clean energy fund, which dropped 29.1%.

Morningstar has highlighted problems with clean energy funds in recent times.

“Clean-energy stocks have fallen out of favour, with pressures created by rising interest rates outweighing supportive government policies,” its US analysts noted.
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October 31, 2023 8:28am
All_on_Red

Want to see a microcosm of how Absentee Ballot voting can be exploited for Election Fraud?
Check out this prosecution.
‘According to Platkin’s office, Mendez’s campaign allegedly collected ballots that were not sealed by voters and examined them at the campaign headquarters to see if they were cast for Mendez. Ballots that were not cast for Mendez were allegedly destroyed and replaced with a ballot for him. The replacement ballots were allegedly stolen from voters’ mailboxes. ‘
‘One of Mendez’s associates allegedly took ballots from mailboxes in areas that were known to have many supporters of Mendez’s opponent, the attorney general’s office said. Also, if voters turned over ballots that were incomplete, Mendez’s campaign workers would allegedly complete them.’
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/nj-election-fraud-state-ag-brings-new-charges-against-two-democrats-over
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October 31, 2023 8:38am
Maggie Pie

“I understand the Arabs wanting to wipe us out,
but do they really expect us to cooperate?”

– Golda Meir

Yet it seems Helen still can’t help poking her nose in.
Again calling for a ceasefire in Gaza….she seems to have forgotten there was already
a ceasefire in place on Oct 7 🙁

https://twitter.com/HelenClarkNZ/status/1718015013691212161

All a ceasefire would be is a gift from Allah to Hamas.
You can’t fight evil with tolerance and understanding.

Everyone we know says H1 really does need to retire from public life.
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October 31, 2023 8:51am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Yeah I can’t see Helen and her husband retiring to a nice cottage by the beach.
  
  She may as well cry into the wind. The Israeli government will not be paying the slightest notice to folk like Helen Clark.
  
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  October 31, 2023 8:56am
  - MCōs
    
    Or anyone else
    
    15 2
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    October 31, 2023 9:12am
    - MCōs
      
      Least of all this chap
      https://x.com/shaykhsulaiman/status/1719043992858337632?s=61&t=yFkzCNMWRCaVt1p5eRxUog
      
      4 0
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      October 31, 2023 9:16am
    - Cassandra
      
      Israel listens to the USA, make no mistake.
      
      9 3
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      October 31, 2023 9:27am
      - MCōs
        
        More like vice versa
        
        Having said that if Israel stopped receiving aid from the USA they’d be gone by lunchtime, which hangs heavily on both countries
        Same with Taiwan
        One only has to look at Afghanistan to see where over dependence on the USA leads.
        
        7 2
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        October 31, 2023 10:03am
      - Jack5
        
        US military aid to Israel was running at $US3.8 billion a year, according to this up-to-date article (link below).
        
        Interestingly, it suggests that Hamas succeeded in its surprise raid because Israel defence is now over-dependent on high technology.
        
        The article says the 40-mile “smart” border fence – the “Iron Wall,” with sensors and remote-operated machine guns, misled Israelis into the belief that large numbers of army boots on the ground were not needed to guard against intrusions.
        
        https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/10/26/israel-hamas-gaza-military-idf-technology-surveillance-fence-strategy-ground-war/
        
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        October 31, 2023 11:29am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        These days it is hard to know who is the tail wagging the dog.
        
        8 1
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        October 31, 2023 12:07pm
  - David Garrett
    
    Bene: What do you mean you can’t see “Helen and her husband” retiring to the beach? I doubt she even sees Mr Davis very often, and they are certainly not a couple in the usual sense of that word.
    
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    October 31, 2023 9:30am
    - lifesgood
      
      Never were, it was purely for political advantage.
      
      18 0
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      October 31, 2023 9:48am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      I’m not one to gossip DG, but you being in parliament and all that, do you have the skinny on what actually happened during the LAX toilet saga?
      
      19 1
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      October 31, 2023 9:49am
      - David Garrett
        
        Maggie: Short answer is no. But Ian Wishart delved into it a bit and while he was not able to find conclusive evidence, it appears Mr Davis had “an incident” in a mens toilet at LAX and was detained by police after the object of his – affections – complained.
        
        After that the picture gets murky, and I wouldn’t want to peddle unsubstantiated rumours as fact.
        
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        October 31, 2023 10:10am
      - Maggie Pie
        
        AHAA. Thx DG. My lips are sealed 😛
        
        13 1
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        October 31, 2023 10:14am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I don’t know anything about their marriage. I have never seen her refer to her husband, even obliquely. I don’t know or care much.
      
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      October 31, 2023 10:18am
      - David Garrett
        
        Bene:She is strongly rumoured to be a lesbian. Her husband is definitely gay.
        
        They entered into what the Brits call “a lavender marriage” – meaning a marriage to disguise that one or both parties are gay – in the early 70’s at a time when there was very little tolerance of homosexuals. To be a politician one had to be married, even if said marriage was a sham.
        
        I despise Clark for many reasons, but if she now came out and admitted that the marriage was a sham – or even just quietly divorced – I would have some grudging respect for her. But then as you infer, it’s really no-one else’s business.
        
        23 1
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        October 31, 2023 10:29am
      - NothingLeft
        
        I knew students of her husband at university. Would be fair to say he had, in all areas, a lifestyle very independent of her.
        
        And Ian Wishart and others used to go on about some supposed incident I think involving him in USA that was handled by Helen. But I have strong doubts as to that being true – NZ’s a small place and it would have leaked out I think.
        
        I think we have to be very sympathetic to the need for pre-80’s gay people to have fake marriages to allow them to participate in parts of society that would otherwise have been walled off from them. The rules were unfair and they had to play the game. Helen was probably the most competent PM Labour of last few generations, even if she did enormous harm to Labour and NZ through her time in the top job.
        
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        October 31, 2023 11:13am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        We used to get homely titbits from our MSM
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/paul-holmes-are-you-being-served/KU36EM2SGLVONKQERHW6YYAFMI/
        
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        October 31, 2023 11:32am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        She took regular ski trips and climbing holidays with her hubby.
        
        https://static2.stuff.co.nz/1233108507/665/581665.jpg?format=pjpg&optimize=medium
        
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        October 31, 2023 11:38am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “We used to get homely titbits from our MSM”
        
        Good grief. they come across as the last two people I would want around for dinner.
        
        MODS – I reported Maggy in error. 🙁
        
        [Mod does it too, don’t worry about it]
        
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        October 31, 2023 1:34pm
      - Swifty
        
        Maggy, that’s right, they’ve been good mates of my Mum’s brother and his wife for 50 years and stayed with them at the latter’s New Hampshire house for Christmas.
        
        They’re genuinely married.
        
        5 1
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        October 31, 2023 1:50pm
      - Countrygirl
        
        Nothing Left, I saw a newspaper report of said incident involving Peter Davis, just before it was expunged. A friend alerted me to it, but the speed of the removal was incredible. I should have taken a screenshot.
        
        5 0
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        October 31, 2023 4:33pm
    - plc
      
      Ok ….so Helen and Judith then
      
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      October 31, 2023 10:32am
      - David Garrett
        
        plc: That is the very strong rumour, yes.
        
        8 0
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        October 31, 2023 11:18am
  - thirteenstars
    
    “…a nice cottage by the beach.”
    
    Apparently $14b of private land and $3b of infrastructure in Christchurch is threatened by rising sea levels. As much as 20cm by 2050 they say.
    
    Helen and hubby best stay well back from the beach.
    
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    October 31, 2023 10:14am
    - NothingLeft
      
      Adding hard fill to low-lying urban land to raise it above any realistic possible increase in sea level would only add a very small fraction to current council rates, and will get far cheaper with AI impact on cost of civil works – it’s really a non issue except possibly for cheaper rural land. Cheapest mitigation would be to simply require all new buildings to have floors above some minimum specified level. Over a hundred years that would eliminate chance of houses being flooded.
      
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      October 31, 2023 11:21am
  - G152
    
    Does she really want to piss the Israelis off remembering that Olympics where all the muslim perps were hunted down and killed
    
    10 0
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    October 31, 2023 12:04pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Now that is very effective targeting of perpetrators that very few would disagree with.
      
      7 1
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      October 31, 2023 12:11pm
- James Stephenson
  
  It’s a mystery* why people like Clark who can clearly see that a ceasefire in Ukraine would favour the aggressor, can’t see that exactly the same is true in Gaza.
  
  *Yeah, not really. Israel has to be held to a different standard than anyone else because reasons.
  
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  October 31, 2023 9:04am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Completely wrong but the logic is rational.
    
    Any ceasefire in either conflict would benefit the weaker party. In the case of the Russia/Ukraine war, it is undoubtedly the Ukrainians who would benefit from a ceasefire. They are under massive pressure, are outnumbered in manpower and outnumbered in artillery capability by a factor ranging between 5 and 10.
    
    As with Israel, Russia will not agree to any ceasefire. Especially as they were conned into believing that they had an agreement with the Minsk 1 and 2 accords. As publicly revealed by Angela Merkel, this was only a ploy to give time to help arm and prepare the Ukrainian military for the inevitable and planned conflict.
    
    13 2
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    October 31, 2023 12:17pm
- Nigel Kearney
  
  It’s good for people to hear what the left say when they are not standing for election. It reveals what they really think. I wish she got more news coverage.
  
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  October 31, 2023 9:13am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, interesting Helen has the ‘cone of silence’ protecting her X account from naughty comments.
  
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  October 31, 2023 9:28am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    No surprises there. She blocked me years ago for some reason 😀
    
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    October 31, 2023 9:41am
    - MCōs
      
      Shock Horror
      
      8 0
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      October 31, 2023 10:36am
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Cossie! Wot you guys doing tonite for Phi Ta Khon?
        Are youse getting dressed up as old ghosts 😀
        
        7 1
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        October 31, 2023 11:04am
- thirteenstars
  
  “…she seems to have forgotten there was already
  a ceasefire in place on Oct 7”
  
  Oh, nice. I’m writing that one down.
  
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  October 31, 2023 10:12am
- Inandout
  
  I did feel a bit sorry for Peter after Labour lost the 2008 election and Helen, after her conceding speech on the podium, swiftly left the stage. Peter reached out to her but she brushed past him in what appeared to be a huff. Our MSM appear to have deleted videos of Helen’s speech.
  
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  October 31, 2023 10:33am
  - lifesgood
    
    He was no longer needed…….and H2?
    
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    October 31, 2023 12:02pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    In,
    
    It was either the brush past or the Darth Vader throat crush.
    
    Dave got off lightly
    
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    October 31, 2023 2:18pm
kowtow

Hamas murdered Shani Louk.

You’d think that people like Marama Davidson and other leftists would have some sympathy for the likes of the young Shani’s of this world.

But no they side firmly with the violent ,religious,ethnic , extremists of Tehran and Gaza .

Very strange and extremely concerning.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2023/10/shani-louk-german-israeli-woman-kidnapped-by-hamas-confirmed-dead-israel.html
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October 31, 2023 9:08am
- MCōs
  
  Here is an article that summarizes what each of our main political leaders have said with regard to Hamas as terrorists
  A lot of beating round the bush, it seems . . . . . .
  
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  October 31, 2023 10:16am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I think you missed something.
    
    9 0
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    October 31, 2023 10:20am
  - kowtow
    
    As a matter of interest , did you know there’s said to be about 33 Thais murdered and 18 hostages .
    
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    October 31, 2023 10:40am
- surfing
  
  She’s one of 1400.
  
  It was an absolute atrocity, coldly calculated by Gaza to provoke the exact response that is happening now.
  
  Hamas know that half the world’s population is ruled by despots and corrupt governments who don’t care much for freedom or human rights.
  
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  October 31, 2023 10:29am
  - Liberty
    
    The sweet smell of Freedom.
    Now we know what the East Berliners felt like after the fall of the wall.
    
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    October 31, 2023 12:37pm
  - kowtow
    
    She is also the young woman whose body was paraded on the back of a truck .
    
    And yet students , Greens , university types , trades unions etc march for the animals who did that .
    
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    October 31, 2023 12:42pm
Surely Knott

Is filibustering the latest technique of progressive journalists to push the pro criminal narrative.

Journalism we were taught should follow an inverted pyramid putting the most important facts of the story at the front and the least important extra details at the bottom.

Lex Lewis is NZ’s most prolific burglar, he has committed more burglaries many done while women and children are at home alone sleeping. He had a traumatic childhood with abuse in state care and the suicide of a foster parent.

But it is 60+ paragraphs in after a long diatribe from the judge, even glamourising him by comparing him to the shawshank redemption and putting a pic of the shawshank movie characters in the article, that we find out the key fact we were looking for buried near the bottom of the very long waffly article: the sentence for the 19 charges is 3 years.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/one-of-nzs-most-prolific-institutionalised-burglars-lexington-john-lewis-back-to-prison-after-4-month-crime-spree-on-parole/AJLZFWWCVJB7HHJQSBKCMOZ6BE/
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October 31, 2023 9:09am
- NothingLeft
  
  Why should we ever let chronic recidivists back out of jail? Seems like this should be a case for preventative detention. If someone is constantly taking a massive shit on society, society owes them nothing, and keeping a recidivist thief in jail indefinitely is cheaper than letting them continue stealing stuff.
  
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  October 31, 2023 10:54am
wsk12345

https://www.thefp.com/p/gender-affirming-care-dangerous-finland-doctor

Interesting article by a doctor in the system, how they came to start this work, research it was based on, and why they now do little of it.

But the US and NZ press ahead. Reminds me of the covid vaccine situation….and climate change. The information world should enable fast response but somehow it remains hijacked by people with vested interests.
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October 31, 2023 9:16am
Maggie Pie

Online supermarket ‘SUPIE’ was never going to be a runner was it?

My partner was saying with a reported turnover of just $14 mill on tight margins, employing 120 staff, and with about 400 creditors and backers probably owed millions, he’s surprised it lasted as long as it did.
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October 31, 2023 9:18am
- Reg Perrin
  
  When i read that suppliers had told them to increase pricing i did wonder if rather than being anti competitive that they were saying that they won’t survive with that small a margin. The big suppliers (Nestle, Unilever) would have a good idea the margin required to be profitable based on their dealings with retailers around the world
  
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  October 31, 2023 9:26am
  - kevn
    
    Reg… The only solution is to be big with own suppliers, companies like LIDL.
    
    5 0
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    October 31, 2023 9:37am
    - Reg Perrin
      
      Why can’t the Warehouse make it work. Surely if there was good profit to be had they would be going in big time as they already have the distribution and buyers in place. When i look at their pricing for the items they do stock its cheaper at Pak’n’Save.
      
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      October 31, 2023 9:49am
  - hullkiwi
    
    The reality is that the FMCG industry has a duopoly of supermarkets and very few suppliers.
    
    In essence, both the suppliers and the supermarkets rig the market and prices consumers pay.
    
    Practices are such that the cost is always paid at the till. Examples include:
    1. Despite you seeing supermarket staff stacking shelves, most of the suppliers use third party companies to provide staff that stack the supplier company product on shelfs. This cost is in the product price.
    2. The “Aisle of Value” is a marketing gimmick. Suppliers are paying for their products to be placed at the store entrance, the supplier also pays for the discount. These costs are then factored into product prices across product ranges. The customer pays for this at the till.
    
    In Auckland, a minor player is the Why Not store in East Tamaki, but they sell stock that is near the expiry date for “Sell Before”.
    
    The only way to solve the supplier/supermarket stranglehold on the market is to open up the market to Lidl and ALDI (Sud) who already operate in Australia. These two companies have their own processing/product labels, but the issue will be getting turnaround at the docks.
    
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    October 31, 2023 10:59am
    - ISeeRed
      
      Maybe NZ is too small to support three or more supermarket chains?
      
      3 0
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      October 31, 2023 2:50pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Not in the past
        
        1 0
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        October 31, 2023 7:11pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        @Never Yet mergers were allowed to reduce to the present duopoly. What market conditions made these necessary or permissible?
        
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        October 31, 2023 11:06pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Company that small, no matter the business it is in, should be making a minimum of 40% GM. And if it were me, I’d be disappointed with margins that low. If you have stumped up as a shareholder and don’t get at least a 20% return on your investment, you should be mightily pissed off.
  
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  October 31, 2023 9:49am
wsk12345

There’s been lots of discussion and out how Hamas so easily took out the ISraeli border. Well a lot of the issue appears to have been reliance on complex tech….well worth a read.

https://open.substack.com/pub/theupheaval/p/hard-lessons-from-israels-high-tech?r=z5cij&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
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October 31, 2023 9:20am
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/300998647/the-reo-mori-roadnaming-journey-that-keeps-going-around-in-circles
Well, I and many others will no doubt keep on calling it “the old main road”.
None of this other rubbish.
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October 31, 2023 9:24am
- Inandout
  
  grey, I wonder what old Joel will do with his time when Stuff closes?
  
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  October 31, 2023 9:30am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Go and find another media outlet in which to peddle his opinion and help drive ratings down until it implodes?
    
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    October 31, 2023 9:36am
- Benedict Yu
  
  This issue has a serious side. Street names should be, and generally are easy to pronounce. If I have an emergency and phone 111, I don’t want to tell the operator that I live on “Mātene Te Whiwhi Road”. Because I guarantee that the emergency operator will have just as much trouble as me.
  
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  October 31, 2023 10:25am
Yvette

A police dispatcher would have sent units to immediately evacuate Linwood Islamic Centre on the day of the Christchurch terror attack if she was aware of the threat.

Obviously the Linwood Islamic Centre was not evacuated.
And none of the evidence that may yet be presented can have resulted in a Police team being at Linwood to await the gunman’s arrival.
So will the inquiry examine why not one of the twenty-eight email recipients, who were media (communications) organisations or individuals working for media organisations, alerted Police to Linwood being a second target – or any of the five other unnamed recipients?
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October 31, 2023 9:33am
- wsk12345
  
  Yup, if the email was received 9 min prior to shooting at el noor, the staffer called 111 within two minutes and had a conversation where she told her the three locations, say that took 3 mins, puts us at -4 mins.
  
  So when did police arrive at el noor? Presumably within minutes of the shooting starting? And why was nothing done in the approx 20 mins between the staffer making the call and the Linwood attack starting? It’s Linwood ffs, there would have been police units in the area, not to mention it’s proximity to Aranui, Richmond, Bromley, bexley, Wainoni, and Phillipstown, not to mention the revenue gathering areas east of ferrymead….
  
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  October 31, 2023 9:48am
- MCōs
  
  Maybe the other recipients didn’t check their inboxes and find out the info in a timely manner.
  It was 24min from the time the email was received by the PM’s office until the shooting started at the Linwood Mosque
  
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  October 31, 2023 11:04am
Jack5

Stuff, looking for a toehold to continue its Leftist crusade, unleashes Glenn McConnell on the incoming government’s stance on climate change. This, before we have have a new government.

It doesn’t rank as Stuff’s worst nonsense, and it’s a change from McConnell’s traditional Maorification tripe.

But it does reflect that Stuff hardliners are the Bourbons of the NZ news media.

“They have learned nothing, and forgotten nothing,” as Talleyrand said of the Bourbons dynasty.

McConnell asking for Stuff readers’ opinion on the incoming government’s approach to climate change before we have a government:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/133175146/how-do-you-feel-about-the-incoming-governments-approach-to-climate-change
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October 31, 2023 9:42am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “how do you feel about the incoming government’s approach to climate change? ”
  
  It is just bloody pointless. I bet dollars to cha su pork buns that the “journalist” could not answer these questions:
  
  1. How does the emissions trading scheme work?
  2. What are New Zealand’s commitments in the Paris Accord?
  3. What does the “net” in Net Zero mean?
  
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  October 31, 2023 12:02pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Spelling mistake . Nett
    Are they stupid or do they think we are stupid ?
    
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    October 31, 2023 2:29pm
- Manu-Rau
  
  “…..unleashes Glenn McConnell….”
  
  For some reason, that seems comparable to being set upon by a toothless Chihuahua that’s been raised on soy milk.
  
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  October 31, 2023 12:05pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Better late than never, I s’pose

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/501317/gloriavale-school-not-providing-an-adequate-education-ero

What on Earth was ERO thinking in its previous assessments of Gloriavale’s school?
(from 2020:
The school has since provided evidence showing the areas needing improvement have been addressed and is now meeting registration requirements, ERO said.

The review also found the school had managers who are “fit and proper persons”, despite the principal being under investigation by the Teaching Council after a teacher sexually assaulted a girl.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/123786648/gloriavale-school-not-a-physically-and-emotionally-safe-place-for-students
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October 31, 2023 9:55am
- Maggie Pie
  
  I see the Principal is a chap by the name of ….. ‘Harmony Helpful’ 🙁
  
  That sould be a red-flag for most people as it is!
  
  One of the girls at tennis was saying there’s lots more to come out about Dilworth as well. No wonder the country has all the social and behavourial issues it’s got today.
  
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  October 31, 2023 10:09am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    As an aside, I’ve sometimes wondered why the Green Party of Aotearoa/New Zealand hasn’t bestowed names such as Steadfast Communist or Fervent Socialist on its adherents
    
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    October 31, 2023 10:36am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      LOL!!
      
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      October 31, 2023 11:15am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I’m pretty sure Harmony Helpful is a mother of 12.
    
    The show also talked to Harmony Helpful, one of two midwives in Gloriavale.
    
    “I’ve done a degree course and I’ve had 12 children of my own. So you can say I have some experience,” she said.
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/gloriavales-men-the-match-makers/X7ZFDFXG5JL3M2VPFVOHWBTGT4/
    
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    October 31, 2023 11:49am
Inandout

The anti Jewish pro Arab demonstrators, to remain true to their cause, must avoid watching these actors.
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls008929586/
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October 31, 2023 10:18am
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  Never seen a film with any of those people in it anyway //
  
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  October 31, 2023 12:03pm
  - Inandout
    
    Fuzz, surely you jest or live in a cave.
    
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    October 31, 2023 12:19pm
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      Yeah, I thought // meant sarc?
      And would have been obvious in itself, since you could hardly watch movies without seeing those people.
      Harrison Ford at top, Scarlet Johannsen, Joaquin Phoenix, Jennifer Connelly, etc etc.
      And a few surprises in there too….who knew Adrien Brodie was Jewish? //
      
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      October 31, 2023 12:34pm
- Ghost
  
  You want to avoid watching Jewish actors because that is what your list is
  
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  October 31, 2023 12:43pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING

This from the Israeli President himself…..

https://twitter.com/ronzheimer/status/1718977025426292752
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October 31, 2023 10:25am
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  Interesting, as skull fragments {‘skull bone’} reported in several other media, whereas the fact they have a “skull” is being interpreted as a beheading here.
  I think people need to settle down a bit.
  Do we know for sure it was a head recovered only, or that skull fragments from a bullet wound weren’t tested?
  Family is saying shot to the head for instance.
  
  Dead is dead, but if she was beheaded it would be a worse look for the Hamas animals, and mesh with other dismemberments said to have taken place. Paints it more in the jihadi angle, which is certainly a way we should see it. A war of extermination, and Islamic in its character.
  
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  October 31, 2023 12:09pm
oldpark

A flight from Tel Aviv to Russia’s Dagestan Republic, in the North Caucasus along the Caspian Sea, was forced to redirect Sunday after pro-Hamas rioters stormed Makhachkala Uytash Airport, seeking to lynch Jewish travelers.

Hundreds of rioters overran the airport, located in the capital of the Muslim-majority region of Russia. Video footage showed rioters with Palestinian flags shouting “Allahu akbar” (“God is great”) as they searched the terminals for Israeli passengers.

Other videos showed Muslim protesters stopping vehicles in the area to ask motorists if they were transporting tourists from the Jewish state.

“We came for the Jews — to kill them with a knife and shoot them,” a rioter was quoted as saying.

The plane from Tel Aviv was redirected to a nearby airport, but a mob also started gathering there, according to Israel’s Channel 12. The flight crew subsequently ordered the doors of the aircraft to be locked, as Russian security forces declared the tarmac a closed area.

“A limited number of Israelis and Jews are currently isolated and under guard at the airport,” Israel’s Kan public broadcaster quoted a security source in Jerusalem as saying.

“We are working on having them depart on a connection flight to Moscow once conditions allow it,” added the official.

The Israeli Prime Minister’s Office and Foreign Ministry said they were following events in Dagestan and “expect Russian law enforcement to maintain the safety of all Israeli citizens and Jews and to act with determination against rioters and wild incitement against Jews and Israelis.

“Israel takes a grave view of attempts to harm Israeli citizens and Jews anywhere,” added the joint statement.

Russia’s state-run RT outlet reported the incident came only a day after Muslims stormed a hotel in the Dagestani city of Khasavyurt in an attempt to harm “Jewish refugees” rumored to be staying there.

Israeli Ambassador to Russia Alexander Ben Zvi was working to ensure the safety of Israeli tourists.

The Conference of European Rabbis, which represents about a thousand Orthodox European rabbis, on Sunday night called on Russian President Vladimir Putin to protect Jews amid an eruption of antisemitic violence in the country.

“Earlier today, Dagestan’s Nalchik Jewish center was set on fire. Note that this is after a Hamas delegation (led by Musa Abu Marzouk) visited Moscow,” said Rabbi Pinchas Goldschmidt, who served as chief rabbi of Moscow for 30 years.

“We hope that he [Putin] will give unequivocal instruction to local authorities not to allow pogroms against the Jews,” added Goldschmidt.
Syndicate (JNS.org) and was republished by permission on Newsmax.

At least in NZ Sanctuary for Israelis and Muslim refugees is afforded to both ?Isn’t it ?
Asking for some confused NZs.
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October 31, 2023 10:37am
Benedict Yu

The email from the shooter to the various recipients was sent at 1.32 PM. Few people read emails the instant they are received. Let’s say at least one of those people read the email at 1.34 PM. It would take at least 60 seconds to digest the email and decide to call 111. So we are at 1.35 PM. This a complex message to relay. Best case is that the 111 operator understands the message at 1.37 PM. She conveys the message to the Police. Again best case scenario is that Chistchurch police are able to act on a message about Linwood at 1.40 PM. The attack at Linwood was at 1.50 PM. That is a ten minute window to reach the Linwood mosque and prevent the attack.

However from 1.34 PM, the emergency line was receiving multiple calls about the shooting in progress at the Mosque in Deans Avenue. All available police were racing to the scene.

Yes there is a scenario where the police could have understood that Linwood was a secund target and to have reached there in time to prevent the shooting. However when you work through what was happening on the ground, it seems unlikely.
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October 31, 2023 10:44am
- peterwn
  
  The multiple 111 calls concerning the shootings were given category 1 because there was a real issue. The 111 call concerning the email was given category 2 since the urgency implications were not clear. So it was not considered until until the category 1 calls were cleared. The call taker in hindsight would have given it category 1 but then hindsight is a great thing.
  All in all it does seem all those involved did a great job in the circumstances. In particular those two rural police officers took out the offender before he could get to a third Mosque.
  
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  October 31, 2023 12:32pm
  - rouppe
    
    The trouble with that hindsight is that if they act on it – ie make similar emails all priority 1 – then a bad actor can send multiple emails about multiple events happening at multiple different places, all designed to consume resources somewhere other than where they’re going to be.
    
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    October 31, 2023 9:59pm
Matt Long

Labour staffer calls for 50/50 cogovernance over everything.
https://x.com/AnneCla70780917/status/1718807162858995910?s=20
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October 31, 2023 10:45am
- Yabster
  
  surely thats not real?- end all animal based farming, remove all cars from the road- fucking loonies!!
  
  22 0
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  October 31, 2023 11:11am
- Rich Prick
  
  I’ve never understood the attraction to hardcore communism. I think it takes extreme retardation to believe in it.
  
  33 0
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  October 31, 2023 11:20am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Its enticing to underachievers, the envious, and misanthropes of all sorts – they (wrongly) see their best chance at moving up the ladder in our society as being by theft/expropriation from more capable or harder working folks, rather than personal effort.
    
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    October 31, 2023 9:19pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  It cannot be real.
  
  12 0
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  October 31, 2023 11:20am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Does she believe this???
  
  11 0
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  October 31, 2023 11:41am
  - Taieri
    
    She probably does. But does she understand the consequences?
    
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    October 31, 2023 6:39pm
Loddenthinks

From the Obvious Files, came a report a few days ago that a company that makes “plus-size activewear” has folded just a few months after opening.

Boasting “the most expansive (snigger) plus-size range in New Zealand” the founder was utterly shocked to learn that “plus-size” and “active” not only do not commonly go together, they are to all intents and purposes mutually exclusive.

Colour me shocked.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/133189314/plussize-activewear-brand-lulah-collective-closes-down-after-eight-months
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October 31, 2023 10:53am
- Maggie Pie
  
  WTF??
  
  ‘Size 30 Activewear’
  
  😀 😀 😀 😀 😀
  
  17 0
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  October 31, 2023 11:13am
  - sirknz
    
    That is some serious engineering in those garments…
    
    8 0
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    October 31, 2023 11:21am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Why would 4 women all want to share a garment at the same time anyway?
      
      Asking for 3 of the others fron tennis.
      
      11 1
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      October 31, 2023 12:45pm
  - greybeard
    
    This morning on NewstalkZB , Kate’s show, the Dunedin report, there was mention of a new ambulance for Otago which can cater for patients weighing over 400kg.
    
    7 0
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    October 31, 2023 5:02pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      That would be a pregnant cow or similar – maybe a small horse.
      
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      October 31, 2023 7:49pm
sirknz

Thanks again Labour…

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/another-craft-beer-company-in-deep-trouble-deep-creek-in-liquidation/AGQSP3YDA5DVXMYR53ADP25SUU/

At this rate we will only have Lion or DB to choose from. Again…
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October 31, 2023 11:20am
- kowtow
  
  I see they were trying to make it big in China.
  
  But China already has its own brand of piss …….
  
  ‘Tsingtao: Video shows Chinese beer worker urinating into tank’
  
  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-67191242
  
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  October 31, 2023 12:56pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    ‘Tsingtao: Video shows Chinese beer worker urinating into tank’
    
    This would likely improve its quality
    
    6 0
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    October 31, 2023 1:20pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Technically a cocktail
      
      9 0
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      October 31, 2023 2:39pm
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    Tsingtao was a Treaty Port and was held by the Germans and of course the first thing they do when they settle anywhere is build a brewery.
    
    Tsingtao beer is v nice actually!!!
    
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    October 31, 2023 1:57pm
    - Jack5
      
      Agreed, it’s a good, German-style beer, and comes from a seriously big brewer: production for 2022 was over 8 billion litres (8.07 million kilolitres).
      
      Any pollution will be ultra-diluted: Tsingtao says the batch of malt in the incident has been sealed off.
      
      However, Beijing-based China Resources Beer (CR Beer), the world’s fourth biggest brewers, will pick up some of Tsingtao’s sales because of this.
      
      Will the pisser be shot? Or will he just march to death in a Chinese prison?
      
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      October 31, 2023 3:58pm
      - kowtow
        
        He may have a kidney problem ……that might save him from the firing squad …….unless he’s got other useful organs.
        
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        October 31, 2023 6:09pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    “Gutter oil” (recovered from fatty deposits dug out of sewers) is snuck into Chinese restaurants due to it’s low cost and opportunity for owners or employees to trouser the cost difference.
    https://youtu.be/zrv78nG9R04?t=14
    
    This is ubiquitous in China. If you go there, you will be eating it somewhere sometime. Restaurants will stack up cooling oil containers in their front windows to try an advertise that they aren’t using gutter oil. But that is of course no guarantee.
    
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    October 31, 2023 2:31pm
Sir Cullen's Sidekick

“Friday 03/11/2023 14:00 hrs – The surge is coming” – Wily Willie & Clowns. Be afraid, be very afraid.
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October 31, 2023 11:37am
- Yabster
  
  yeah, and you have been spot-on over the years with your so-called predictions….- as much use as Kelvin Davis in a spelling bee…
  
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  October 31, 2023 12:36pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Kevin Davis ?
    
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    October 31, 2023 2:41pm
Jack5

MCC always, for many of us, stood for the sports institution, the Marylebone Cricket Club.

A new MCC that’s popped up on the internet is the Hungarian university and think tank, Mathias Corvinus Collegium, of Budapest.

Right winger, Viktor Orban, Hungary’s Prime Minister seems to be directing funds into it.

As an example of what it’s doing, below is a link to a short Youtube video about multiculturism’s effect on Sweden. It’s from an MCC conference in Brussels on European multiculturism. It features Lars Aberg, a Swedish author and journalist.

https://youtu.be/MhZ3QdJ1xe0?si=LHoDZX5KEpeJlcBF
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October 31, 2023 11:53am
Maggie Pie

Obviously LABOUR was preparing early for Halloween….. 😎

https://twitter.com/nzlabour/status/1712717328201216375
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October 31, 2023 12:02pm
Maggy Wassilieff

When identity politics trumps class politics

https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2023/10/31/bryce-edwards-new-zealand-needs-a-more-working-class-parliament/#more-25160
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October 31, 2023 12:18pm
- NothingLeft
  
  This is really a bit silly. We live in a far more egalitarian and therefore intellectually stratified world than 50-100 years ago. Of course you won’t see many ‘working class’ or other people of lower intellectual talent and work ethic entering politics – to succeed in even gaining selection, let alone rising to top demands a variety of psychological and intellectual attributes that are uncommon amongst people who choose to get into low-status or ‘easy’ professions like teaching these days. Which is why Labour, with it’s selection of candidates for reasons of identity and union association rather than proven leadership or studious competence, has such a dearth of talent for Ministerial slots.
  
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  October 31, 2023 1:30pm
  - Taieri
    
    Of course you won’t see many ‘working class’ or other people of lower intellectual talent and work ethic entering politics
    ————-
    
    “Working class” people of “lower intellectual talent”? Would you like to expand that?
    
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    October 31, 2023 6:42pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Let me help:
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQWPR9TM0Gk
      
      2 0
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      October 31, 2023 8:51pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      yeah I spoke clumsily. By working class I meant people doing low skill, low focus, low paid basic labouring Mc Jobs, as distinct from people who have far greater skills, tradespeople etc, particularly those that own and operating their own businesses and employ others. I guess I see tradespeople as middle class, and low paid as working class.
      
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      October 31, 2023 9:35pm
Maggie Pie

Word leaking out of the Viaduct… the ‘Coalition Agreement’ is signed & sealed.
All parties extremely happy with the outcome and looking forward to delivering an awakening from woke. And to top it off, rumor is the ‘specials’ are likely to deliver another seat to National.

Proof there is a God….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfGDvDGE7zk

(sound @ full-vol)
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October 31, 2023 1:05pm
- Ghost
  
  Chris will be glad to be handing the books over to Chris, while Chris knows the shit they’ve left is going to cause Chris some headaches. And not long and we will celebrate Chris being prime minister with a special holiday for Chris called Chris tmas
  
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  October 31, 2023 1:12pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Wondered where you were this morning Ghost.
    Assumed you might have been catching up on a few zzzzzzz be4 tonite 😀
    
    8 0
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    October 31, 2023 1:18pm
    - Ghost
      
      You’ve got to be kidding, ghosts hide tonight from Michael Myers.
      
      5 0
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      October 31, 2023 3:07pm
- The Redbaiter
  
  Maggie Pie- I think this could be a more appropriate tune-
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTcC2aHylqc
  
  3 3
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  October 31, 2023 1:36pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    You must admit she hasn’t got the greatest voice tho Red.
    My absolute fave…. ‘Labor Is A Losing Game’ by the fab Amy Winehouse.
    
    And ‘Valerie’
    
    8 0
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    October 31, 2023 2:18pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  The MSM will be unhappy that they have not been in the loop.
  
  If this report about the Coalition is true, well done to Chris, Winston and David.
  
  12 0
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  October 31, 2023 1:51pm
  - MCōs
    
    Well done to Winston if he’s got the other two to sign up to an agreement before final election results are known
    I don’t for a moment believe these guys know the final results
    Of course NZF & ACT seem to full of people who will believe any rumour going round
    
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    October 31, 2023 5:16pm
- ISeeRed
  
  I want to believe.
  
  5 0
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  October 31, 2023 2:54pm
- gorse
  
  Yeah well the emphasis should be on rumour. Any “leak” from the electoral office should be tracked down, ending in a sacking. Lots of gossip based on nothing.
  
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  October 31, 2023 4:26pm
Ghost

Mean? Na, I liked it

AM host Ryan Bridge has revealed a previously unseen exchange with Chris Hipkins, during which he roasted the Labour leader in the ad break before an interview.

Bridge, during Tuesday’s show, revealed a clip from about a fortnight before the election. The clip showed Bridge asking Hipkins to count to 10 for a pre-interview sound check.

After Hipkins completed the sound check, a humoured Bridge chimed in by telling the Labour leader: “We’re nearly at your polling result… just kidding.”

“Oh, that was a bit mean,” Hipkins responded.

Article
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October 31, 2023 2:46pm
MCōs

The Rumble in the Jungle was 49yrs ago
https://x.com/michaelwarbur17/status/1718933086379909327?s=61&t=yFkzCNMWRCaVt1p5eRxUog
Those were exciting times for boxing
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October 31, 2023 3:15pm
Maggy Wassilieff

I’m decidedly pro-vax…. in the old-school way… when a vaccination was a vaccination…
but this news gives me the screaming heebies..

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/zb-plus-national/auditor-general-finds-covid-contract-related-to-dr-nikki-turner-inappropriate/

If we can’t trust the Director of NZ’s Immunisation Advisory Centre to play with a clean set of hands, who can we trust?
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October 31, 2023 3:25pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

Late today, got the bot.
https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/senior-maori-leader-found-lying-in-radio-interview/?
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October 31, 2023 3:40pm
- Don Beckett
  
  Shit Steve. It’s not the bot, it’s covid doncha know. Off you go for 2 jabs & a booster – that’ll have you healthy in no time. //
  
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  October 31, 2023 4:09pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Well Don, they can stick that where the global warming sun don’t shine.
    RAT test says N
    
    4 1
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    October 31, 2023 5:07pm
    - kevn
      
      SteveO… But you did a RAT test. tsk tsk
      
      4 0
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      October 31, 2023 6:27pm
Maggie Pie

Hmmm….sounds like lubricant will be a must then 😛

https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/status/1273890658097467392
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October 31, 2023 4:11pm
- Ghost
  
  He looks like he has the sexual strength of a 100 year old man…..
  
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  October 31, 2023 4:17pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Please don’t tell him there are no more virgins left.
  He can find out by himself.
  
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  October 31, 2023 5:10pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Two years ago I shared this on Facebook, who promptly took it down.
So the Labour Govt complained??
Pathetic Labour. Shit like this is why you lost.

https://twitter.com/TaxpayersUnion/status/1454226536412811265?
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October 31, 2023 4:50pm
kevn

34 EV charge stations faulted from over 300 total.
10%’ish down seems the regular proportion.
Range anxiety?
https://charge.net.nz/our-network/network-status/
8 0
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October 31, 2023 4:52pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Bet they go the way of those Waka Kotahi ‘Safety Phones’ on the Motorway…..
  Every one of them vandalised by you know who 🙁
  
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  October 31, 2023 5:11pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Voters?
    
    5 0
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    October 31, 2023 5:15pm
  - MCōs
    
    Zombie sheep
    https://youtu.be/CwAsPkFoXlo?si=aVU3hmto4X8KtD41
    
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    October 31, 2023 5:25pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      It’s always them Yogi 😀
      
      8 0
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      October 31, 2023 5:50pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      That would be the movie with Philip Sherry reading the news?
      Done in Cornwall Park?
      
      5 1
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      October 31, 2023 6:22pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Chargenet – Didn’t we do well??? 🙂
  
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  October 31, 2023 5:15pm
greybeard

https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350101473/high-court-dismisses-judicial-review-kapiti-coast-resource-consent-notification?utm_source=stuff_website&utm_medium=stuff_referral&utm_campaign=mh_stuff&utm_id=mh_stuff
This area is flood-prone and as far as housing is concerned is a disaster waiting to pounce.
Looks as though developers’ money has spoken, as far as some in the council are concerned.
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October 31, 2023 7:07pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Holy Mother of God!
  Imagine having 135 two-storey units going up next to you. And you weren’t even notified about it? Hope they’ve got the money to take it to appeal. Talk about usurping honest peoples rights.
  
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  October 31, 2023 7:49pm

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