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October 30, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 30 October 2023

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General Debate

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Chuck Bird

I stand with Israel.
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October 30, 2023 8:02am
- igm
  
  Likewise, and to hell with a ceasefire, this will only give hammas time to re-eqiuip. UN should now be shown as the waste of space they are.
  
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  October 30, 2023 8:06am
  - kowtow
    
    Here’s the UN saying “civil order” breaking down in Gaza ( Israel’s fault you see) , when there never was a “civil” order there . Only terror .
    
    More UN “narrative” control , like the scamdemic and the weather porn nonsense.
    
    https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/people-are-scared-frustrated-and-desperate-civil-order-breaking-down-in-gaza-as-un-aid-warehouses-looted-of-basic-survival-items/news-story/38c1872e79bd4b7152067754a34ba6be
    
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    October 30, 2023 8:52am
    - Handyman
      
      So the UN were calling for a unilateral ceasefire by Israel to deliver emergency supplies while it was not distributing the supplies in its Gaza warehouses?
      Were these warehouses reserved for special purposes or special people, currently in tunnels in the north?
      
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      October 30, 2023 9:43am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        call me skeptical but……
        
        How did the Israeli secret service (famed as the best in the world) miss Hamas:
        – training over a thousand combatants
        – transporting over a thousand combatants, arms, and bulldozers to the border
        – destroying observation equipment on the fence
        – penetrating the fence (surely there are electronic measures to notify when the fence is breached)
        – roaming throughout Israel shooting for 3 hours before 200 hostages were taken through the fence to Gaza (3 hours and the Israeli defense force had still not secured the fence).
        – killed and injured 5900 people?
        
        Neil Oliver provides an explanation.
        
        Adern gets a special mention 13:30 minutes.
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmHdFqTfmoE
        
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        October 30, 2023 11:09am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Mark H
        
        I don’t think the cancel squad have noticed your post .
        You are entirely correct.
        I would like to know how Israel were the victims of a surprise attack from a highly monitored area.
        Why were they ignorant of an imminent attack? Why did they take five hours to react ?
        How do they now know where to drop their strategic missiles .
        They have gone from ignorant vulnerability to launching hundreds of “surgical air strikes” in an extremely short time.
        How?
        Downtickers please leave a brief reason. Willing to learn.
        
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        October 30, 2023 1:44pm
    - KH
      
      The Israeli Secret Service are not the best in the world. Nor is the IDF.
      But they are effective in a way because with any provocation they go mad dog batshit crazy. Very dangerous. Works in the short term.
      In the bigger picture this will not work. Without change, Israel might not survive.
      
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      October 30, 2023 2:48pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        At the moment it looks like Gaza will be the one which doesn’t survive
        What on earth was Hamas thinking*
        All the pleading from the Hamas loving Jew hating supporters isn’t going to get Israel to stop now.
        
        * well obviously raping beheading burning shooting torturing genocide from the River to the Sea
        
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        October 30, 2023 3:06pm
  - Rusty
    
    @igm
    
    The UN like the WEF are wicked anti-western organisations. The only politician in NZ who points this out is Winston Peters.
    
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    October 30, 2023 9:17am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      That must be why Ardern heading for the UN?//
      
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      October 30, 2023 10:28am
      - softail 1450
        
        Steve Otto, Dame Ardern is heading for a “Professors” gig at Harvard, so much for being the best university in the United States.
        
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        October 30, 2023 12:14pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Softail,
        Then, she will head to the UN.
        NZ was a steppingstone, so is Harvard, and anything else that helps her obtain her goal.
        This all started with her International Socialist Youth speech in 2009.
        I knew way back then she was trouble.
        How can a woman that fucked NZ over so badly end up way up the UN ladder?
        Upticked you anyway.
        
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        October 30, 2023 4:51pm
- Southern Raider
  
  It is now fact what has always been believed. If you hate Israel you are a communist/socialist/radical left/radical Muslim or far right/nazi
  
  There is a direct correlation between social media posts and those groups above.
  
  As a society are these the people we want setting the international policy and definition of who is “evil”. Israel is the canary in the mine for the west.
  
  If I lived in UK or Europe I would be very concerned about the future of my countries
  
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  October 30, 2023 8:16am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Southern ,
    Do you get the impression that some here can’t read?
    Well said.
    I bet you were expecting to be hidden due to low appreciation of the truth.
    
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    October 30, 2023 1:53pm
- Michael Sommerville
  
  Everyone (in the media) seems to have forgotten that Hamas started it.
  
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  October 30, 2023 8:18am
  - kevn
    
    Michael… hamas are just the foolish useful idiots thus enabling Israel to punch bach hard.
    
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    October 30, 2023 9:17am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      I am sure Israel will handel it . . .
      
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      October 30, 2023 11:04am
      - sirknz
        
        Chopin the head off the snake is the only way to go,,,
        
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        October 30, 2023 11:31am
      - NothingLeft
        
        Well he did write a whole opera about a local lad https://youtu.be/JH3T6YwwU9s?t=5759
        
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        October 30, 2023 11:34am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Sirknz,
      
      Compose yourself .
      
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      October 30, 2023 1:56pm
      - sirknz
        
        Not sure if I should face the music or pay the piper.
        
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        October 30, 2023 7:03pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    Hamas started it? You do realise that the US & Israel created Hamas to counter the PLO. (Same as the US creating ISIS)
    
    What seems to be missing in reasoned discussion is that mass bombing of Palestine creates more Hamas/Freedom Fighters.
    
    I suspect that 99.9% of commenters have not been in a war zone.
    I served during the Vietnamese conflict. It was not a fun time to see mindless destruction and death.
    
    Every time the South/US forces attacked a village, killing innocents, more Vietcong were created.
    I suspect the same happened in Afghanistan.
    
    How did those conflicts turn out?
    
    If you think Hamas(in their eyes freedom fighters) will be wiped out. Then I have a bridge to sell you.
    
    PS. Vietnam has turned out to be one of my favorite countries to visit, revisit. From the war-torn devastation of the 60s until today. A lovely country with lovely people.
    
    I cant emphasis enough the horrors of war and also how “the enemy” are dehumanized by “öur side”.
    
    I didnt realise at the time the brain washing I received in the military to see Vietnamese generally as not really human. So easier to kill without conscience!!!!
    
    I see the exact same thing happening in the west /NZ regarding the Palestinians and other Arabs/Iranians etc etc.
    
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    October 30, 2023 1:06pm
    - SPC
      
      No, the actual history of Hamas is here. It was not founded by Israel or the USA.
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas
      
      Sure, it’s opposition to a two state peace and their winning the last PA election (none since) has been exploited by Likud to enable continuing settlement of the WB.
      
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      October 31, 2023 7:43am
  - kowtow
    
    With more than a little help from Tehran .
    
    Which an awful lot here are prepared to actively ignore .
    
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    October 30, 2023 4:59pm
- Simon
  
  Hopefully all over in a couple of weeks. IDF pushes into Gaza somewhat and declares victory and returns. US navy and Iran proxies skirmish a little and also go home.
  
  If there is a real fight there is no exit only escalation.
  
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  October 30, 2023 8:24am
- kowtow
  
  Problem is so many people stand with the evil regime in Iran .
  Current president Ebrahim Raisi , responsible for mass deaths , executions ( publicly on cranes) and the current crackdown on democratic and women’s rights there .
  Not to mention the Mad Mullah’s and the apocalypse they want to visit on Israel and the rest of the west.
  
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  October 30, 2023 8:31am
  - mogg
    
    If the mad Mullahs are stupid enough to get involved militarily they won’t know what has hit them.
    
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    October 30, 2023 1:04pm
- blue collar
  
  Why?
  Why not stand for New Zealand ?
  
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  October 30, 2023 10:24am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Blue,
    I agree.
    There’s an element within our border who find it brave, yet conveniently safe, to back someone or something that will never incur any retribution.
    You could cut the bravery with a butter knife.
    
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    October 30, 2023 2:02pm
- Ra Henare
  
  What does that mean? I stand with Israel?
  You stand with the ideology of the Israeli elite to wipe out Palestine? Some might say genocide???
  
  Or do you stand with a large portion of the thinking Israeli population who do not want genocide?
  
  I am amazed at the bloodlust from many KB commenters.
  
  But then again maybe not.
  Those same commenters were probably suckered into believing in the podium of truth about all the Covid restrictions as being good for NZ.
  
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  October 30, 2023 11:58am
  - Southern Raider
    
    You just proved by point above.
    
    If Israel wanted to commit genocide it would have done so decades ago.
    
    You are either with the side of justice or you are with the baby killing Hamas.
    
    All Gaza (and the UN needs to do) is hand over all the hostages and for Hamas to surrender. A simple solution and the guns would stop straight away
    
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    October 30, 2023 12:31pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      SR, you are really really naive.
      Enjoy your life while you have it.
      A world without deep thought.
      
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      October 30, 2023 1:08pm
      - SPC
        
        It is hard living in a world where only those without intelligence disagree with you.
        
        Your view is partisan and therefore without nuance.
        
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        October 31, 2023 7:28am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Israelis are not doing or planning anything like Genocide. Clearly the only Wanna-be- genocidal nut-jobs in the region are the Palestinians and their backers intent on wiping out Israel (“from the [Jordan] river to the sea”) and killing all Jews. Israelis just want to be left alone to go about their lives without fighting. There are more Palestinians living outside of West Bank and Gaza than within.
    
    I stand with the successful liberal democratic pluralistic state of Israel against the genocidal antediluvian misogynistic fundamentalist wackjobs the Palestinians have chosen to support.
    
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    October 30, 2023 12:38pm
  - Lance
    
    Try googling the history of the Israel and the Palistinians before making ignorant comments.
    A tip: the lefty MSM are full of shit.
    
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    October 30, 2023 1:11pm
- sungsamning
  
  Ditto.
  
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  October 30, 2023 5:29pm
- Jake Dee
  
  You are rhetorically supporting Israel from behind a computer screen. “Standing with” something would mean a lot more if you were standing in a place where you could get shot bombed starved arrested and imprisoned.
  Just sayin’
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:14pm
Benedict Yu

A woman is threatened with arrest because she is “silently praying” outside an abortion clinic in the UK.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2023/10/26/watch-police-target-woman-silently-praying-abortion-clinic/

Deranged demonstrators urge jihad against all Israelis. Police ‘That is totally OK. Jihad could mean anything.’ 🤡

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/met-police-jihad-protests-braverman-b2434241.html
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October 30, 2023 8:13am
- kowtow
  
  ‘ Anger erupted last night after a video emerged showing a woman taking part in the pro-Palestine march through London on Sunday holding an effigy of a dead baby and shouting ‘Slaughter the Jews’.’
  
  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12684359/Palestinian-protester-effigy-dead-baby-London-hate-crime.html
  
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  October 30, 2023 8:23am
  - kevn
    
    kow… But, but Ukraine?
    
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    October 30, 2023 9:18am
    - emmess
      
      What is that supposed to mean?
      
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      October 30, 2023 9:57am
      - blue collar
        
        Those who waste emotional energy on foreign conflicts are idiots …. That’s my take on brother kevvy …. And if it ain’t what it means then again ,
        
        I stand with New Zealand ,
        
        To hell with
        Israel
        Palestine
        Ukraine
        The tmo
        NZ murderers
        Pollard
        Toni
        Fozzy
        And any prick who can’t do 50km/hr and is slow off the mark at a light change
        
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        October 30, 2023 10:39am
- ClanMcleod
  
  There is zero doubt that all of the mainstream media is pure narrative control, on every single issue. There is no ‘journalism’ practiced anywhere.
  
  Anyone who breaks from the ‘current thing’ will be quickly subjected to a campaign of smears and attacks to discredit them personally, rarely their actual message. It’s been a common theme for the last few years.
  Those supporting the latest official narrative have their voices amplified, those who oppose it will potentially have their lives destroyed. Effectively, silencing all opposition.
  
  You mentioned the very brave UK MP Andrew Bridgen who is trying hard to raise awareness about the alarming increase in all cause mortality in the UK. He is a prime example of how someone can expect to be treated if the stray from the ‘official’ story. Russell Brand is almost certainly another.
  There are many other examples.
  
  We don’t have anything remotely resembling a free and balanced fourth estate. In fact it is the complete opposite. It is a PR and propaganda arm of whoever is paying their bills.
  
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  October 30, 2023 8:38am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Correct Clan.
    
    The public believe that the media are an unbiased group of public service organisations.
    
    They are in fact owned by companies who ensure that the media say only what is beneficial to the owners.
    
    Truth is irrelevant unless it is convenient.
    
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    October 30, 2023 10:43am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I know very little of this estate stuff other than the 4th is media.
    The 4th hardly exists anymore other than a gravy train for rabid lefties to jump on. What do the 5th and 6ths estates consist of? Makes my head hurt.
    
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    October 30, 2023 10:46am
    - NothingLeft
      
      From French revolution. 1st estate is clergy, 2nd aristocracy, 3rd commoners. Later 19th century addition was 4th estate; the press.
      
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      October 30, 2023 11:37am
      - PeeJay
        
        Apparently the French Revolution is where we get the political terms right wing and left wing – apparently developed from where the various factions sat in the French National Assembly.
        
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        October 30, 2023 3:09pm
Suze Wainwright

Liked Sean Fitzpatrick’s comments this morning that winning the rugby World Cup seemed to be vital for South Africa as a country (just like it was vital for them in 1995. I seem to remember it was vital for South Africa as a country 4 years ago too – will it also be vital for them every 4 years henceforth?)
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October 30, 2023 8:15am
- kowtow
  
  Truly farcical commentary .
  
  Bread and circuses comes to mind.
  
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  October 30, 2023 8:55am
  - Matt Long
    
    It was a game of the halves and the game was the winner on the day.
    
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    October 30, 2023 10:23am
    - kowtow
      
      It’s beginning to look like a game of “haves and have nots”
      
      The haves focus on and also pay big money and investment in time and effort to distract the have nots to follow 30 men playing with odd shaped balls all around the world , as if it matters to the have nots………
      
      Case in point , the night before the world came to an end tv1 “news” spent the first 20 minutes on it .
      
      Only in New Zealand.
      
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      October 30, 2023 11:56am
- alloytoo
  
  Yes.
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:38am
- cmm
  
  Typical crap you’d expect from a sport person who has been sponsored to play games most of his life.
  
  Sport might give people something to talk about and something fake to rally around, but it does not really fix unemployment, corruption and all the other problems of Africa.
  
  Sure a few people might think it is important, but I am pretty sure that far more South Africans are more concerned about where their next litre of water and loaf of bread are coming from.
  
  It’s bread and circuses without the bread.
  
  Besides, South Africans are more interested in soccer.
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:40am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    I think that’s what Sean Fitzpatrick might have been trying to get at…
    
    (Ah, unless you were referring to the Springbok’s captain…)
    
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    October 30, 2023 9:51am
- mawm
  
  The majority of South Africans have no interest in rugby, instead they support their lamentable soccer team. The politicians, eg Ramaphosa, use the SA Rugby successes as a platform for international exposure, all the while doing their best to destroy “white” South Africa.
  
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  October 30, 2023 10:53am
  - Observer of Life
    
    mawm: Thanks for the reply re cycles yesterday. I ran out of time to check back on the day.
    
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    October 30, 2023 3:29pm
Northshore

Memo:
From: NZ Rugby Union
To: International Rugby
Subject: Either the TMO goes, or we go.
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October 30, 2023 8:17am
- MCōs
  
  The AB try was disallowed because there was a knock on that was blinding obvious on the tv replays.
  The ref didn’t see it just as he didn’t see a blindingly obvious forward pass in the 2007 Rugby World Cup quarterfinal.
  Back then there was no tmo to help him out.
  
  Interestingly when the Springboks toured NZ in 1956 the level of foul play from the ABs was so bad the South Africans considered calling off the tour.
  Back then ref was on his own and didn’t see the violence behind his back. Nobody ever got sent off.
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:09am
  - pdm
    
    Tough on Barnes MCos. I thought he did an okay job and he may have been obscured by a player (or players) for the knock on – he had a touch judge right there who missed it too. Great run by Mo’unga though to set Smith up.
    
    At the time of the 1956 Springbok tour Maurice Brownlee was the only player sent off in a test (in 1924) until Colin Meads in 1967.
    
    Englishman Budge Rogers got away with a king hit in the open (in front of the Queen) at Twickers in about 1963 so attitudes were a lot different 60/70 years ago.
    
    In those days.
    Men were men and women were glad of it as my father in law used to say.
    
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    October 30, 2023 9:22am
    - Maggie's partner
      
      It waqs Cyril Brownlie
      
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      October 30, 2023 1:55pm
    - Rusty
      
      @pdm
      
      TMO’s and assistant referees serve a good purpose. Brutal and dirty play has virtually been eliminated from the game.
      
      Red/ yellow cards for hitting the head we can all have an opinion on.
      
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      October 30, 2023 4:01pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    I have no problem with the TMO finding and interjecting on matters of deliberate foul play / violence.
    
    I have a big problem with the TMO re-litigating other marginal rule violations resulting in the course of the game revised
    
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    October 30, 2023 9:51am
    - MCōs
      
      The problem isn’t the tmo it’s the tv replay
      Before tv we didn’t know if there had been a mistake made. Now we do & the public demands fairness
      As it happens the tmo is not used for offsides from kickoffs, or knock ons or whatever when points are not involved
      
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      October 30, 2023 10:08am
    - Gravelroad
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby-world-cup-2023/300998686/mark-reason-why-aaron-smiths-try-should-not-have-been-wiped-out-in-rugby-world-cup-final
      This is what Mark Reason has to say about it.
      Very interesting. Something seems to be amiss when officials can allegedly alter the rules on the day……..
      
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      October 30, 2023 1:11pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    I thought TMOs could not go back after tries had been awarded unless it was foul play
    
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    October 30, 2023 9:56am
    - SPC
      
      Up to two phases to look for a forward pass or knock on.
      
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      October 30, 2023 3:15pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        HHaha, pretty sure that’s further back than 2 I would have thought
        
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        October 30, 2023 5:28pm
  - Prince
    
    The Rugby Lore passed down from my parents was that in 1956 the All Blacks won the first test, but lost the second, at Athletic Park. The Springbok prop, Jappie Bekker has ‘done a job’ on new All Black Frank McAtamney. For the third test the All Blacks chose Kevin Skinner, a useful boxer. The scrums settled down, the All Blacks won, and all was joyful.
    
    If we must have video refs reviewing knock ons etc, why not go full tech and analyse backline off-sides that stop attacking back play. The Springboks are masters at the ‘rush defence’ – a euphemism for the midfield advancing before the halfback has released the ball, and stymying any flowing backline play from breaking out.
    At each break in play, players could re-hydrate and receive instructions from their coaches, while the vidoe ref uses all the tricks of technology to review the prior phase for knock-ons, forward passes, offsides, players falling on someone, tackler release, ball release, neck rolls, incorrect clean outs, unlawful turnovers, deliberate slap downs, etc etc etc.
    Sounds like a fun way to spend four hours at the rugby.
    
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    October 30, 2023 9:56am
    - pdm
      
      Prince as I recall, probably from a TP McLean book on the tour Skinner dealt to Bekker and then changed sides of the scrum and did the same to Chris Koch
      
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      October 30, 2023 10:54am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Yes, as a college boy in Auckland at the time, I went to that 3rd. test. What a joy it was to see Bekker’s head shoot out of the scrum after an uppercut from Skinner.
        And of course, Peter Jones’, “I’m absolutely buggered.” So what else was going on in that scrum & rucks? 😆
        
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        October 30, 2023 1:04pm
  - Local Miller
    
    The “blindingly obvious” knock on was caused by a Springbok coming over the lineout which should have been a “blindingly obvious” penalty. The TMO and the ref should have balanced the more serious penalty that occurred first and CAUSED the knock on against the subsequent minor knock on and as would have been done in the old days, allowed NZ to play the advantage against the penalty.
    It was a really bad decision, and the TMO should not be interfering in the game that much. The TMO was there to help the ref when he felt he couldn’t decipher exactly what had happened, now he actively participates in the running of the game, which is leading to poor outcomes.
    
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    October 30, 2023 10:20am
    - MCōs
      
      There’s no such thing as a ‘minor’ knock on
      
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      October 30, 2023 10:43am
    - hullkiwi
      
      They did and NZ got a penalty. The TMO interfered for the knock-on by the AB. It was only when Barnes saw that Eztebeth interfered in the line out, that Foley agreed there should be a penalty.
      
      In the past, the instruction from ref to the TMO was “was there any reason why I should not award the try”. The problem for the ABs, was that it could be argued that the penalty advantage was lost with the knock-on. However, the try would have happened without the interference of Eztebeth. So, it could be argued that the try should have stood!
      
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      October 30, 2023 10:46am
      - SPC
        
        Given the ref was not playing penalty advantage, having missed both the infringement and the knock on, that is all moot.
        
        The rules are that after a try is scored the TMO can go back two phases to look for a knock on or forward pass.
        
        So Barnes also missed a third thing, the TMO had gone back 5 phases and his intervention was not within the rules TMO’s operate by. Mr Foley is in big trouble in his performance review.
        
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        October 30, 2023 3:13pm
      - hullkiwi
        
        SPC, I agree about Foley. Barnes also made the mistake by not over ruling Foley.
        
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        October 30, 2023 4:39pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    What if the try happened at 75 minutes and the ABs won? The try then dis-allowed during the presentations. What would happen then?
    
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    October 30, 2023 10:52am
  - I remember when
    
    Back in the dark ages we took turns getting our back after the wrongs of our previous tour of NZ/SA.
    
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    October 30, 2023 11:54am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Again, Barnes was told in 2007 that it was forward by his Touch judge who saw it plainly.
    Barnes cheated and overruled his touch judge.
    
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    October 30, 2023 12:04pm
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Lol MCos, foul play from the All Blacks in 1956. The AB’s bought Kevin Skinner into the team to sort out the Bok front row, who were certainly not pansies when it came to dishing out dirt. Skinner had a particular fondness for sorting out Chris Koch and Jappie Bekker, who had fixed the All Blacks up in 1949, Koch in tests, Bekker for Northern Transvaal. And for what it is worth, none of them had any hard feelings for each other, Koch visited Skinners mother in ’56.
    
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    October 30, 2023 1:40pm
- RoboRob
  
  The touch refs and TMO were introduced to reduce the problem of ‘They won but shouldn’t have because the ref missed x and y’. They are also there to make the game safer.
  
  I would argue that the improvement around these areas has been minimal but the impact on the flow of the game and the viewing pleasure has been massive. I for one, would rather have more fouls missed and a better flowing game.
  
  The solution seems simple.
  
  1) Line judges to only call forward passes and ‘outs’.
  
  2) TMO to only call groundings of tries. ABSOLUTELY NO MORE ‘did anything happen in the last 5 minutes that might stop me awarding this try’.
  
  3) TMO to call on dangerous play (high tackles etc). These are NOT sent to the ref but help for adjudication after the game. Players to receive fines and match bans. NO more TMO red / Yellow cards.
  
  4) Ref to make all calls. If he misses something line refs / TMO not to contact him. If ref sees high tackle (or other), warning given. Player to be penalised post game. If player caught again by ref after warning then yellow.
  
  5) Yellow cards only for professional fouls and multiple dangerous play. Again, dangerous play handled post game.
  
  I think the impact of these on safety would be minimal. Players would still try to play safety because they already do and they would want to avoid missing games / fines.
  
  The impact of the other changes would mean more ‘they won but shouldn’t have’ and ‘the ref was blind’ problems BUT the game would be much more exciting with much less stoppage. We would also remove the massive issue of games where teams are down players for almost the entire game.
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:10am
  - pdm
    
    Robo – touchies have to rule on offsides too – particularly players in defence lines from rucks, mauls etc.
    
    At the moment they are pretty slack on that.
    
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    October 30, 2023 9:27am
    - RoboRob
      
      Yup I’m fine with them calling off sides. Agre they are too slack on that.
      
      My suggestions above are just an ‘an over all picture’ of where we perhaps should go.
      
      Funnily enough MCos post, that wasn’t showing when I posted, shows the exact reason we have the current debacle. People complaining that that ref missed things.
      
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      October 30, 2023 9:39am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    TMO for advice only if asked by the ref. Otherwise STFU.
    They are spoiling what used to be a real game.
    
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    October 30, 2023 10:57am
  - Hard Cheese
    
    Agree 100% with your post. Red cards should be for intentional foul play, yellow for cynical/professional fouls. All this “player dropping/mitigation/degree of danger” to determine red cards for head on head contact is ridiculous – it’s far too subjective, in trying to make the game safer they’re ruining it.
    
    Shannon Frizell’s yello
    
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    October 30, 2023 12:40pm
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      Cheese, they are trying to mitigate head injuries. You may not be aware, but there are a bunch of ex players suing various RFU’s as they are suffering early onset dementia. In their late 30’s, early 40’s. So I’d suggest that World Rugby is, on top of making the game safer, trying to mitigate any future actions against them.
      
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      October 30, 2023 3:38pm
      - Hard Cheese
        
        I understand that, but the red cards being issued are impacting games too heavily, and you start getting into arguments about consistency (e.g. Cane’s yellow/red vs Kolisi’s yellow/non-red).
        
        For non-deliberate head on head contact, where the incident is the result of too little time to react or poor tackle technique, have the player able to be replaced (so it remains 15 vs 15) and have them sit out matches and attend tackle school. Players missing matches will not only cost them money, but they might also lose their place in the team if the guy that replaces them plays well, they’re pretty powerful incentives to making sure their tackling technique is up to scratch.
        
        No-one is interested in seeing 14 vs 15 games. Having a RWC final down to 14 vs 15 is ridiculous – yes, you could say the All Blacks could still have won the game with 14, but more often than not it ends up being a blowout. Look what happened to NZ at Twickenham vs SA
        
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        October 30, 2023 4:35pm
  - SPC
    
    I’d prefer the option of the red card for professional fouls, lest there be too many. And also for deliberate dangerous play.
    
    But have the same 10 minute penalty as a yellow card, but with the player replaced permanently.
    
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    October 30, 2023 3:09pm
- kevn
  
  North… It became a game of refereeing with camera freeze framing.
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:20am
- thirteenstars
  
  Check out the post-game press conference with Foster where he opines that they expected what they got from the TMO:
  
  https://youtu.be/Cje1JAwAxn8?si=_cwU9_2Js5Zm46kz&t=541
  
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  October 30, 2023 10:40am
- mawm
  
  Reply to Northshore – After the years of blaming Barnes and his touch judge for missing an “allegedly” forward pass AND that it was for all to see on the TV screen and that it should have been adjudicated by looking at the “obvious” forward pass on TV, the NZ rugby viewing public have got what they requested. Unfortunately this has not turned out to be in their favour.
  
  TMO’s are here to stay. We have followed American GridIron Football where every play is scrutinised and dissected “for hours” during a game making the spectacle unwatchable. Either one accepts that match officials are fallible (or even biased) and puts no blame on them for missing a forward pass, etc. or one has what we have now. I quite like the current situation and I think the game and officiating will improve as a result.
  
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  October 30, 2023 11:11am
  - I remember when
    
    Perhaps the biggest problem with TWOs is not the affect on the correctness of decisions.
    It is the affect it has on the efforts of teams that try to use superior fitness and mobility as their main weapons.
    The often considerable breaks, along with the injury breaks, lineouts setting, scrummage time, all allow teams to regroup and recover their energy.
    
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    October 30, 2023 12:05pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    No one blames the touch judge. He caught the clear and obvious forward pass. Barnes just deliberately overruled him and gave the try.
    
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    October 30, 2023 12:05pm
- JerJer
  
  We can’t just blame the ref all the time. It is very poor sportsmanship. We lost simply because we were not good enough, from management, down to Foster, down to the players.
  
  It was fully expected that we would lose, many expecting the exit at the pool stage, or best case, the quarter final. I can’t understand why people are disappointed we lost. we clearly were not good enough. Lucky to get to the final at all, we really lost due to exceptionally poor leadership and descision making on the field. We had the opportunties to kick penalties to win the game, and we preferred to back ourselves to scrore tries that did not eventuate. Those were poor decisions, and led directly to the loss.
  
  We really need to get over ourselves. You cannot have a second rate coach with a terrible record, picking second rate players to actually win. If it had not been for Jason Ryan and Joe Smidt we would have been out in pool play. They were the only ones that pulled this thing together. Foster was a passenger.
  
  I say stop the whining about the ref and get over it. We were not good enough.
  
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  October 30, 2023 1:56pm
Maggie Pie

IT’S A FAIR QUESTION.

A bestie tweets….

“What did all these Pacific MP’s actually achieve in the last 3 years?”

https://twitter.com/NZQandA/status/1718386176371921172
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October 30, 2023 8:22am
- Chuck Bird
  
  It looks to me that Agnes Loheni is on National’s list.
  
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  October 30, 2023 8:29am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Unlike most of the Labor MP’s, Agnes is an attractive and successful business woman in her own right. She is sure to make a positive & valuable contribution to ALL New Zealanders.
    
    Just saying.
    
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    October 30, 2023 8:39am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Isn’t she already winning her electorate?
    
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    October 30, 2023 9:39am
- kowtow
  
  A good salary , on us ?
  
  Nice “work” if you can get it.
  
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  October 30, 2023 8:31am
- Im Right
  
  Maggie…what did the Dept of women’s affairs/Dept of Pacific affairs/Dept of ( insert dept name that is gender/race based) achieve over last 6 years?
  Window dressing only, they are all ‘token’ depts to appease the woke mob.
  Look, I don’t mind a dept of anything, as long as at the end of the year/election cycle it can show results that merit the money put in.
  If it shows it has good results commensurate with tax payers money used then…go for it, keep it going!
  If not, close it down.
  The good thing is, if the numbers crunched and presented to the public Vs actual gains/results then the NZ public will be all in favour, this is what the new Govt should do, as guarantee the left will moan and gripe but if the numbers/results are made public then the left will be drowned out when a dept is closed down…IMHO of course.
  
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  October 30, 2023 8:33am
  - RoboRob
    
    I DO mind departments of anything. We need less government not more. There are probably about 25% of govt departments / ministries that could be totally scrapped without any noticable change to society. Im especially looking at Ministrys of; woman, children, elderly, human rights and race relations. These are all ‘public comment ministries
    
    They should all go.
    
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    October 30, 2023 9:15am
    - edhunter
      
      [Mod – even joking you don’t call someone that, do it again and you’ll get a ban]
      
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      October 30, 2023 11:24am
    - Warren
      
      They should get rid of the sports Minister first as all they are their for is free travel to world sporting agents free tickets to events and this last Harrah for Grant Robertson shows why we do not need one.
      
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      October 30, 2023 2:24pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      I’d like a Ministry of State Power Reduction*, A Ministry of Liberty, a Ministry of National Sovereignty, and a Ministry of Enterprise
      
      And then, as you say, get rid of 20-30 existing, permanent state parasites ministries.
      
      *Ironically I’d make this the most powerful of all ministries.
      
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      October 30, 2023 6:57pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Set a great example to everyone in how to get a lot of money for not doing anything productive.
  
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  October 30, 2023 8:55am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Isn’t she already winning her electorate?
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:42am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Exactly the same as the Maori MPs did for “their people”.
  
  The square root of 3/5th of stuff all/
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:49am
- mogg
  
  “Do I detect the smell of burning martyr”
  
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  October 30, 2023 1:41pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    No, it’s just the steak!
    
    I’ll get my coat.
    
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    October 30, 2023 7:36pm
igm

Are all these cruise ship visitors going to ride bikes around Wellington on cycleways no one else seems to want . . . apart from those contributing nothing towards their excessive and infuriating cost.
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October 30, 2023 8:26am
- hullkiwi
  
  igm since when?
  
  Who was the numpty who came out with that brain dead comment?
  
  Cruise ship passengers do not travel the world to ride bikes around cities like Wellington. Cruise ship visits to cities are measured in hours, so passengers are booked on specific “closed shop” tours or shopping trips that maximise returns to the cruise companies, or tour operators.
  
  The last group of people in peoples’ minds are Wellington City Ratepayers who have paid for expensive and under used bike ways!
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:00am
- goNZ1
  
  I hope they are told to avoid Courtenay Place, its not safe in daytime now with beggars,druggies,homeless and feral KO tenants and gang members on the loose.
  
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  October 30, 2023 1:18pm
hullkiwi

Is this the next Green MP in the wings, trying to encourage Chippie from the sidelines.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/shaneel-lal-weighing-the-coalition-options/6QFF37QOVJDVPNHPYVEWUXPR2M/
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October 30, 2023 8:32am
- Notsofast
  
  It seems Shaneel Lal would be a prize for any party but NZ First. Remarkable that 113 members of Parliament embraced his gay sterilizing bill rather than listen to international experts like Helen Joyce with her PHD in maths. This clip has a stark title.
  
  “They are sterilizing gay kids.”
  
  https://youtu.be/ahS0VjJNaew?si=z97fgJJ46pZPfteE
  
  New Zealand has hundreds in the works.
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:01am
  - alloytoo
    
    A decade ago sterilizing children would have been regarded for what it is:
    
    Genocide.
    
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    October 30, 2023 9:42am
    - crikey
      
      It cannot be genocide which (look it up) involves death. If you want to be melodramatic, try to find appropriate words.
      
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      October 30, 2023 10:02am
      - Notsofast
        
        A bit like Hamas vs Israel. Finessing the correct victim count is all the rage, but an absolutist will say one is too many, whereas Ayesha Verall is staunchly pro sterilization. It is a very rainbow proclivity.
        National are so brave they have banned the discussion, so business as usual, and pharma is laughing at all of us.
        
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        October 30, 2023 11:26am
      - alloytoo
        
        Death of individuals is inevitable, there is no more effective way of destroying society than sterilization.
        
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        October 30, 2023 12:04pm
      - Hollyfield
        
        The UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide includes this definition under Article 2 “(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group”. It could be argued that “the group” under this Convention does not apply in this instance and therefore it is not genocide; I’m just pointing out the genocide is not only death.
        
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        October 30, 2023 6:19pm
      - Jake Dee
        
        I don’t know about that, forcible or coerced sterilization would be genocide. No reproduction and a population is doomed.
        
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        October 30, 2023 9:25pm
    - Notsofast
      
      Matters are out of control. David Seymour is our highest intellect, but has no intestinal fortitude on this.
      A million dollars per child per lifetime is the financial price, but the broken kids and families are the deepest tragedy.
      
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      October 30, 2023 10:21am
- Ruawai
  
  The young boys standing in front of Marama appear to be cradling items to represent bloodied babies similar to those carried in Palestinian protests around the world calling for the killing of baby Jews. If they are this is pretty gruesome and sad for the kids being told to carry these.
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:26am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Grand standing? If Hipkins reneged on that he would lose all credibility, not that he had much left. Has Peters met with Hipkins in case? Don’t think so.
  
  I think the left are full of it expecting a completely different result on specials, this crap the right lose two seats is rubbish, 2017 was the first time I thought, the anger towards the left will see them struggle, and ACT who lost support in the final days may well have a higher poll from earlier voters, also something no one has thought of, NZF usually do not do well in specials, are they far enough above 5% to be safe?
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:52am
  - hullkiwi
    
    G, the expectation that the left will gain from specials is just wishful thinking.
    
    This election was different to 2017 & 2020. Unlike 2020, there was a real mood of anger against Labour outside of Wellington. The high number of Specials was because the system collapsed late morning. People who I saw turning up at the polling station I was at had a determined look of “I’m going to kick the government”.
    
    The only people putting out thoughts about what might be the result on Friday have been the left clutching at straws.
    
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    October 30, 2023 10:54am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Agreed, I think they will be surprised about specials, I note Bishop had down a lot of work for off sure voters, they used the lovely woman that stood for Nats in Auckland central last election in Aussie, and they had a large meeting in London, many angry people off shore, and people on specials may well have voted early, and I am not so sure Peters will get great numbers in specials
      
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      October 30, 2023 11:09am
- John Loveridge
  
  All these fashionable gender-benders are upsetting English grammar.
  
  “Shaneel Shavneel Lal (they/them)… They are a law and psychology student, model and influencer.”
  
  Lal is a singular person. Shouldn’t it be “they is”?
  
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  October 30, 2023 11:08am
  - Notsofast
    
    I would run with :
    He is a law and psychology student, full stop.
    Compelled speech is a slippery slope, now tending to the vertical, with a collection of tangled carnage at the base.
    
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    October 30, 2023 11:53am
  - Jethrod
    
    He should be she/it
    
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    October 30, 2023 1:14pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    Wow, you really are behind on this political learning curve. Language is one of the primary battlefields of this culture war and has been since before I was born.
    Personally, I like Wittgenstein’s explanation of what words mean, basically a word’s meaning is the role it plays in the language game. Swap “game” for “war” and you can see why male can be female, one can be many and vice versa.
    
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    October 30, 2023 9:31pm
pdm

Steve – what is even more amazing is that the guys (yes there was more than one of them) who upgraded the yellows to red were about 5ks away at Roland Garras Tennis Stadium.

What a bunch of imbecilic wallies the IRB are.
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October 30, 2023 8:40am
RockyJ

I was pretty disgruntled by the impact of Wayne Barnes on the game yesterday. When I became more gruntled I thought about the number of times there have been injury stoppages by teams playing the AB’s versus the injury time called by the AB’s. I reckon the former would be a lot higher than the latter.

If this is the case it would suggest that the AB’s really do play more dangerously than other teams. In which case Barnes was justified.

You would have thought that Foster, knowing Barnes was the ref, would have been drumming safe tackling into the boys in the week before the game. But then foresight does not appear to be a strength of his.
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October 30, 2023 8:40am
- Spam
  
  Real injuries or “the All Blacks are fitter than us, we need a rest, here’s the designated ‘injury’ break” injury?
  
  A lot of opposition teams need to have regular “injury” breaks, and some magic water or magic spray seems to fix them pretty quick.
  
  World rugby should immediately require any injured player to move to the sideline, and play to continue. For the (say) first four “injuries”, they can sub, provided the sub is on within 30 seconds. Otherwise, no sub. Even if it’s a forward at a scrum – an automatic free kick if no forward is available.
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:04am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Spam, spot on magic water, and magic “words of wisdom” from coaches who also doubled as Waterboys.
    
    This occured during each of the Boks games against France & England. It happened yesterday, with the unfit Boks going down for rest breaks, with coaches coming on passing instructions. This was noted by the commentators, they were even going as Fars as saying Barnes should have been calling time on these fake injury breaks by threatening a penalty against the next person going down with an injury.
    
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    October 30, 2023 9:17am
    - Spam
      
      Yep. Could also have an independent doctor / physio accompanying the team doctor / physio, and ensure that no water carriers are allowed on the field at all.
      
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      October 30, 2023 9:57am
  - MCōs
    
    I’ll tell you this
    If someone bunged me into one of those scrums/line outs/mauls the resultant broken bones would be genuine. Don’t you worry about that.
    How any of those guys survive 80mins amazes me
    I broke a femur just by falling over!
    Same with cricket. I see these blokes get hit in the unprotected ribs by a 90mph short ball and they carry on like nothing happened
    
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    October 30, 2023 9:27am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  You only had to hear the half back tell Barnes he has to put that in now. Barnes reset when it should have been a penalty, the half back or maybe Severa said they are only down because they are tired
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:59am
Master Mariner

New report out about the true costs over 10 years of an EV.

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2023/10/25/first-of-kind-analysis-reveals-true-cost-of-owning-operating-evs-without-govt-subsidies-1407294/

“EV advocates claim that the cost of electricity for EV owners is equal to $1.21 per gallon of gasoline (Edison Electric Institute, 2021), but the cost of charging equipment and charging losses, averaged out over 10 years and 120,000 miles, is $1.38 per gallon equivalent on top of that. Adding the costs of the subsidies to the true cost of fueling an EV would equate to an EV owner paying $17.33 per gallon of gasoline,” the report reads.

Is this why the Car majors are turning away from any further EV manufacturing.

I would like to see the true cost here in NZ, Think transportation to NZ, Insurance, Cost to Tax payer in installing charging stations, Not too mention subsidies.

Also note, Resale after 10 years and costs of disposal ?

Meanwhile Australia has issued a Marine Notice regarding Transportation of EV’s.
https://www.amsa.gov.au/vessels-operators/domestic-commercial-vessels/dcv-safety-alert-022023-risks-associated-carriage

Keep in mind, Australia does not have a “Highway” accross Cook Straight.

Going by the above reports, Dont preach too NZ’ers about how they will save the planet because they dont.
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October 30, 2023 8:41am
- peterwn
  
  Does this apply to EV’s on cable ferries across the Murray River at Morgan, etc?
  
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  October 30, 2023 8:55am
  - Master Mariner
    
    In all honesty, It would be far simpler as the operator too ban them completely.
    Not sure how many EV’s you would get on a Ferry there ?
    The report (attached above) , Is more likely dealing with Tasmania and the Mainland. However it includes all ferries ( Domestic Commercial Vessels) and would encompass every DCV capable of carriage of Vehicles etc.
    
    You really have to ask yourself the question of How capable the New Cook Straight Ferries of Safely carrying EV’s. What measures are in Place.
    What does Maritime NZ say about the Safe Carriage of EV’s ?
    
    Unlike NZ, Aust will inforce any act of Negligence by not adherring to the above Marine notice.
    
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    October 30, 2023 9:39am
    - NothingLeft
      
      There is no shortage of sea water for putting out an EV fire on a ferry (salt water is best for battery fires as discharges batteries through conductive salt water). Just need high capacity sprinklers and bilge pumps on car decks.
      
      Ideally want spray up from underneath as well as smashing a window and filling cabin of car with saltwater.
      
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      October 30, 2023 12:45pm
      - Lance
        
        Once a Lithium Ion battery ignites, it will not cease burning (at approx. 500 degC until all the electrolyte is exhausted) no matter how much water you throw at it.
        
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        October 30, 2023 1:16pm
      - Taieri
        
        Just need high capacity sprinklers and bilge pumps on car decks
        ————–
        
        Google “free surface effect”. You’ll see that “just need…” is not enough…
        
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        October 30, 2023 6:16pm
  - Local Miller
    
    The trivial distance across the Murray is pretty low risk. Certainly no more than on a road.
    
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    October 30, 2023 10:39am
    - peterwn
      
      But if the ferry and the flaming EV sank there may not be enough water in the Murray River to extinguish the fire especially during a drought.
      
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      October 30, 2023 11:06am
- ClanMcleod
  
  The EV narrative along with the whole climate narrative is a complete scam, even bigger than the covid scam.
  We’re in the process of having all of our democracies dismantled brick by brick and the ‘great reset’ being imposed, not so much by stealth, but one piece at a time.
  We are boiling frogs, not enough have noticed the rise in temperature yet.
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:00am
  - kowtow
    
    Chuck in their desire to do away with cash as yet another weapon in the authoritarian enslavement armoury.
    
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    October 30, 2023 9:12am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    A mouse dies in the mouse trap because it doesn’t understand why the cheese is free.
    
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    October 30, 2023 11:17am
- Taieri
  
  Keep in mind, Australia does not have a “Highway” accross Cook Straight.
  ————
  
  They do, Bass Strait. Although the frequency of sailings is not the same as on the Cook Strait, there’re 6 vessels operating there. 2 Ro-Pax and 4 cargo only. All larger than anything sailing between Wellington and Picton.
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:15am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Yes indeed Taieri, I probably could of worded it better.
    I have sailed on the TT Line between Devonport and Sydney.
    The real point I was trying to make is they dont consider it as strategic to NZ as between North and South Island etc.
    
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    October 30, 2023 9:43am
- alloytoo
  
  Anybody buying a 10 year old EV needs to have their head examined.
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:46am
  - I remember when
    
    A sale and battery!
    
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    October 30, 2023 11:03am
- Flossie
  
  There’s no bridge to Tasmania.
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:59am
Maggie Pie

Imagine if the outcome of the election had gone the other way 🙁

WATCH

Marama calls for New Zealand to be decolonized and….. “reindigenized”

https://twitter.com/SimonRAnderson1/status/1718156878591787237

(full screen/sound up)
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October 30, 2023 8:50am
- peterwn
  
  The Maori Health Authority is abolished first since there were apparently no health issues pre 1840.
  
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  October 30, 2023 8:57am
- kowtow
  
  She could start with de Davidpersonning herself……
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:14am
- I remember when
  
  Indigenization:
  According to the Collins English Dictionary, this word is first recorded in the period 1950-55.
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:29am
- BananaLlama
  
  Decolonise their bank accounts.
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:42am
- Ruawai
  
  The young boys standing in front of Marama appear to be cradling items to represent bloodied babies similar to those carried in Palestinian protests around the world calling for the killing of baby Jews. If they are this is pretty gruesome and sad for the kids being told to carry these. (Whoops posted this in the wrong thread above.)
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:42am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I seem to be living in a City full of crazies!
  
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  October 30, 2023 11:23am
- John Loveridge
  
  What exactly do those terms mean, Maggie? In any practical sense, how do foaming lunatics like Davidson intend to achieve this goal?
  
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  October 30, 2023 11:28am
  - kowtow
    
    She comes across as a very narcissitic woman. Count how many “I”s are in that diatribe.
    
    Mind you those “Jews for peace” there , imho really need serious help if they think anyone at that circus gives a damn .
    
    Churchill’s crocodile comes to mind.
    
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    October 30, 2023 12:02pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    You’re asking the wrong questions. They aren’t making or selling anything real. The message is the product, taking up bandwidth, airtime and headspace is the goal.
    
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    October 30, 2023 9:38pm
- Notsofast
  
  Then this reply by the Israeli spokesperson
  
  https://twitter.com/ElliotIkilei/status/1718534714599059522?t=j6nhANSYIcAUbsMQy10FnQ&s=19
  
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  October 30, 2023 1:08pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Too dumb to use fuel. Even a bit of butter off a sandwich would have helped.
    Maggie Pie is right. Dumber than a sackfull of Hamas!
    
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    October 30, 2023 4:58pm
Simon

GAE on Ukraine / Russia. Its just terrible what is happening to the Ukraine civilians. Its a war crime.

GAE on Gaza. Civilian deaths in Gaza well that is what happens in a war. Its fine its war.
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October 30, 2023 8:53am
- kowtow
  
  Er GAE ?
  
  Vas is das ?
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:15am
  - mawm
    
    Great American Empire!
    
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    October 30, 2023 11:20am
    - kowtow
      
      ah so.
      
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      October 30, 2023 12:03pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      Well I heard it as Global American Empire, but the way it’s pronounced is also important. It’s a highly contextual hate crime word but if I were to say that Washington’s foreign policy is totally GAE you would get my meaning.
      
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      October 30, 2023 9:44pm
- kevn
  
  Simon… Yes, the Gazaian citizens tried to leave but hamas won’t let them.
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:25am
- Ehlana
  
  Who is GAE?
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:40am
  - kowtow
    
    According to wokists , just about everyone .
    
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    October 30, 2023 10:29am
Ehlana

“Newshub understands that National leader Christopher Luxon wants all of the coalition negotiations to take place in Auckland.

He wants to essentially control the coverage of coalition talks, and the best way to do that is to hold them in a city without a political press gallery.”

It only takes two days to bike from Wellington to Auckland and they’ve now had two weeks.

Perhaps it’s time some of our Parliamentary press corps made way for new blood too.
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October 30, 2023 8:53am
- peterwn
  
  His sweet revenge on the Press Gallery.
  
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  October 30, 2023 8:59am
- I remember when
  
  Now the Barry Soper has left the Press Gallery will it become a male free zone?
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:16am
  - Ghost
    
    Why? None of the other males are leaving
    
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    October 30, 2023 9:29am
    - alloytoo
      
      “I remember when” got it right the first time.
      
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      October 30, 2023 9:48am
    - John Loveridge
      
      None of the other “males” have the necessary levels of testosterone to properly qualify. They’re all small-ballers.
      
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      October 30, 2023 11:30am
    - pdm
      
      Ghost – Aaron Dahmen from NewstalkZB is another who left last week.
      
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      October 30, 2023 11:34am
      - Ghost
        
        Sean Plunkett is still a member and did well in catching Hipkins lack of knowledge of what a woman is
        
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        October 30, 2023 11:37am
      - John Loveridge
        
        Ghost: now that Chippy has a girlfriend, do you think he might have finally figured it out?
        
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        October 30, 2023 12:46pm
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  What I’ve been pleasantly surprised by – so far – is the silence from Winston on the subject. Normally one might have expected to see him out with the cameras gloating and crowing about how he was forcing Luxon and particularly Seymour to bend to his will. The fact that he isn’t, suggests that he isn’t – that he has actually realised that his bargaining strength is pretty weak, particularly since he’s so comprehensively burnt his bridges with Labour.
  
  Still, as I say – so far …
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:36am
  - alloytoo
    
    I think Winston’s primary focus is Labour and I would imagine Luxon is happy to accommodate him in this area.
    
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    October 30, 2023 9:50am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      He sure is one to watch. Capable of all sorts of dodgy behaviour.
      
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      October 30, 2023 11:30am
  - peterwn
    
    Cris Luxon was criticised for not totally 100% ruling out a deal with Winston. I think he made a wise decision. If National and Labour both totally 100% ruled out Winston then it would give them the cop-out to go back on this ‘in the interests of democracy.’ Also it seems the Maori Party is not interested in any coalition deal so Labour is in no position to lead a coalition anyway. The options as I currently see them (assuming National/ACT do not have a governable majority) are:
    1. NZ First agrees to coalition with National and ACT but not completely on Winston’s terms. Personally I consider Nicola being DPM and/or Minister of Finance is not negotiable, it would be a democratic travesty if Winston had either or both roles. Similarly any demand by Winston that his MP’s sit nearest to the Speaker (as in 2017-2020) should be rejected. They should sit in the usual place even if they are next to the Greens and/or Maori Party.
    2. Winston declines coalition with neither main party leaving Chris Luxon to form a minority party. On each issue Winston would have to decide whether to support National (ie play a continuing game of Chicken) or risk a fresh election. Such an election would effectively be on Chris Luxon’s terms (re timing etc) and Winston would likely face demolition.
    3. Chris Luxon could pick off individual minor party MP’s to get a workable majority. He could try this now or down the track. Simon Bridges considers that the Waka Hopper Act is ineffective, so Winston could have trouble falling back on that.
    
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    October 30, 2023 11:32am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  All three leaders live in Auckland, why the hell would they fly the nation to meet for what are possibly un needed talks, I mean if Nats snd ACT stay enough ahead then the talks are virtually fruitless, although it may pay to keep Peters on side
  
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  October 30, 2023 10:03am
  - mawm
    
    When are the final totals due?
    
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    October 30, 2023 11:21am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Nov 3rd.
      
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      October 30, 2023 11:30am
      - mawm
        
        Thanks
        
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        October 30, 2023 12:22pm
      - peterwn
        
        And Chris Luxon may be limited in what he can do until the Port Waikato byelection is completed.
        
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        October 30, 2023 6:59pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Friday
      
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      October 30, 2023 1:44pm
- imalwaysright
  
  Ehlana,
  With no fodder being distributed to the press, Lloyd Burr was so desperate for attention that he came out of the closet and declared himself a homosexual.
  
  I’m sure the country is in a state of ethical and moral flux.
  
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  October 30, 2023 11:21am
  - goNZ1
    
    it would be more newsworthy if some hacks came out and said they were NOT gay !
    
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    October 30, 2023 1:27pm
Chuck Bird

This should stop a future massacre.

Israel eases gun restrictions, arms civilians after Hamas terror

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPnovdPsStI
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October 30, 2023 8:55am
- kowtow
  
  Problem there ( like everywhere else) is domestic politics .
  We don’t understand the half of it.
  Simple fact is the state of Israel failed miserably in its primary duty of protecting its borders and citizens in the first instance and now the present govt is scrambling desperately to recover .
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:01am
  - Inandout
    
    kowtow, if ever there was an issue worth exploring is why the Israeli government seemed to ignore/miss warning signs of an impending Hamas slaughter? But as has been mentioned, finish off Hamas first and then have an inquiry later.
    
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    October 30, 2023 10:24am
- Matt Long
  
  I find the gun restrictions really odd, nearly everyone in Israel is trained in the IDF, as I understand, and I’ve seen a number of storys about terrorists foiled by armed civilians.
  
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  October 30, 2023 11:04am
  - Lance
    
    The reservists all carry weapons, everywhere they go for a month after their annual refresher.
    
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    October 30, 2023 1:21pm
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Even the Swiss citizen reserve militia seem better prepared, as in being able to keep a firearm after their service ends, if they wish. And high levels of gun ownership in general.
    Ideally you would get to shoot back when someone comes to your home to kill you.
    
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    October 30, 2023 2:02pm
  - cmm
    
    You will probably find huge differences in politics etc between the Swiss and the Israelis.
    
    The Swiss are extremely homogeneous (as a Swiss nation) even though they have many languages. While they are not involved in wars they are pretty well prepared for them and something like 90% of Swiss households are armed. Everyone is required to do refresher shoots (or 3 weeks military refreshers).
    
    Having a Swiss militia that can deploy within 24 hours is very much a strong part of the Swiss psyche.
    
    Israel is not very homogenous. 21% of Israeli citizens are Arab. Only 73% are Jewish.
    
    I would expect that Israel is royally sick of war and prefer not to have weapons around the house.
    
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    October 30, 2023 4:53pm
    - artemisia
      
      Read somewhere that the Swiss have many aircraft and other defence assets hidden in the mountains, and a plan to convert roads to runways at very short notice. Smart.
      
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      October 30, 2023 5:05pm
I remember when

All Black thoughts.
Has Sam Cane been forced to suffer because he was made captain which has affected his form and confidence.
Who was captain when the All Blacks started to turn the game around?
The Springboks play the same game every game, which suits when the World Cup knockout style is needed.
Should Aaron Smith have been replaced 5-10 minutes earlier. He was becoming predictable for the defence.
Did we need Cam Roigard in the last fifteen minutes?
Why was Lienert-Brown put on the wing, where on at least three occasions his lack of instinct for the position was displayed.
The rush defence can be exposed by short chip kicks and gubber kick behind the line and wings.
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October 30, 2023 8:58am
- pdm
  
  `Why was Lienert-Brown put on the wing, where on at least three occasions his lack of instinct for the position was displayed.’
  
  I agree/ The best midfildback in NZ – he should have started at Center.
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:32am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Roigard was dropped for disciplinary reasons the same night that the wing was dropped, bizarrely nothing has been mentioned, [Mod – please provide links to back up this claim, or stop making it] his form has been great, yet now he was dropped from squad altogether, my intelligence comes from a pretty good source
  
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  October 30, 2023 10:06am
  - MCōs
    
    I’m sure if that’s correct we all would have heard about it just as we heard about the reason for Mark Talea’s absence from the Irish game.
    
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    October 30, 2023 10:55am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      [Mod – provide evidence or stop making this claim. Evidence isn’t your understanding]
      
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      October 30, 2023 11:43am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        It is quite well known, I have heard it from friends in the Otago rugby union who received this direct from players in France
        
        [Mod – unless you can confirm it with an article, not putting this blog at risk because of gossip]
        
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        October 30, 2023 1:46pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        hearsay /hîr′sā″/
        noun
        1. Unverified information heard or received from another; rumor.
        2. Evidence that is not within the personal knowledge of a witness, such as testimony regarding statements made by someone other than the witness, and that therefore may be inadmissible to establish the truth of a particular contention because the accuracy of the evidence cannot be verified through cross-examination.
        3. Information communicated by another; report; common talk; rumor; gossip.
        
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        October 30, 2023 3:20pm
    - Colville
      
      It was reported that Telea was back well after curfew …. anything else??
      
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      October 30, 2023 8:54pm
- goNZ1
  
  watching the haka yesterday and the teams smashing into each other,one is reminded of why NZ has such a bad domestic violence record
  
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  October 30, 2023 1:31pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

I met a magical fairy yesterday who said she would grant me one wish.
“I wish to live forever,” I said.
“Sorry,” said the fairy, “that is the only wish that I’m not allowed to gran
“Fine,” I said. “Then I want to die the day after Parliament is filled with honest, hard-working, bipartisan men and women who act only in the people’s best interests!”

“You’re a crafty little bastard,” replied the fairy.
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October 30, 2023 8:59am
- kowtow
  
  Oh well given it’s coming up …….
  
  ……Guy Fawkes , the only man to enter parliament with an honest intention.
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:17am
I remember when

So, Shannon Frizell was only the second yellow card in a World Cup final.
Then this was followed by the first red card and two more yellow cards.
Should Kolisi’s have been upgraded to a red card?
Why was the head clash on Ethan de Groot not a card?
As he seemed to pick up everything else how did the video ref missed the Eben Etzebeth elbow to Sam Cane’s head?
What is causing all the head cuts that players on both sides were sporting?
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October 30, 2023 9:10am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Give some marks to the TAB people who set the odds.
  Three or more yellow/red cards was only paying $10.
  I get the impression that they had a better understanding of how South Africa play than did the N.Z. coaching squad,
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:34am
- hullkiwi
  
  Frizell was not a yellow card.
  Eztebeth, committed two fouls at the lineout & fouled Cane, in previous AB games, ABs have been sent to the bin for less.
  deKlerk committed a goal line foul, that in the Irish game v the ABs Barnes awarded a penalty try.
  Kolisi should have been a red card, he connected with Savea’s head, he lined up Savea, there was no mitigation. In fact the outcome was worse than Cane.
  Barnes awarded a penalty against Savea (& SA got 3 points) for an offence that didn’t happen & all Barnes could say was “Sorry Ardie”.
  
  Barnes did nothing about the fake injuries, where fake Waterboys were running on the field passing on instructions to the Boks.
  
  Both Barnes and Foley are to blame for the farce we witnessed yesterday. The were both inconsistent, poor and favoured SA. Not good for rugby’s show piece
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:46am
Yvette

Déjà vu Winston
Incoming Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has avoided questions on whether he has spoken to Winston Peters after his false tweet about the Christchurch mosque shootings.
Peters was widely criticised earlier this week for falsely claiming then-Prime Minister Dame Jacinda Ardern concealed her office received an email from the shooter before the attack
Speaking to media on Saturday, Luxon refused to pass judgement on the tweets and wouldn’t reveal whether he has spoken to Peters since they were posted.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/christopher-luxon-refuses-to-say-if-he-s-spoken-with-winston-peters-since-false-tweet-about-christchurch-mosque-shootings.html.

Has Luxon spoken to Peters since they were posted?
Sure! Christopher and Amanda Luxon dined with Winston Peters shortly after.
The question really is: Did Winston disclose with utter transparency his pre-dinner activity of publicly complaining about his perception of Ardern’s utter lack of transparency?

Also, what Winston has done has partly filled a political vacuum which Luxon has perhaps unwisely allowed to occur. Jacinda allowed the same to occur with the “conversations” on the capital gains tax and co-governance – so both became rather a shambles.
_____________
Christopher and Amanda Luxon dined with Winston Peters at his home in Auckland last night as secret negotiations to form the next government continue. But just before the get together, the New Zealand first leader took to social media, making a false claim against the last prime minister he worked under. … It was at Winston Peters’ Auckland home that he opened his door for a private dinner, playing host to the Luxons. One news understands Amanda Luxon came bearing flowers [1]. And while we don’t know exactly what was on the menu, you can safely assume there was plenty of politics. All part of the incoming prime minister’s plan.
– video transcript https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/one-news-at-6pm/episodes/s2023-e299

[1] No, Amanda Luxon carries no flowers in her hands in the accompanying shot – in fact the whole item Is rather à la Frost Report “Lord Privy Seal”
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October 30, 2023 9:11am
- bennerg
  
  “ as secret negotiations to form the next government continue”
  
  Is not the correct word “private” negotiations.
  
  “Secret” implies we do not know that the meetings are occuring. Which is wrong as the article states they are.
  
  “Private” implies they are simply conducted “in private”.
  
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  October 30, 2023 10:01am
  - Yvette
    
    Correct English language usage as I understand it is not currently a New Zealand media forte.
    Especially now as many sentences are rendered as kereru English.
    Alas, Bennerg, we fall befurt
    
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    October 30, 2023 11:06am
  - cmm
    
    Is that correct?
    
    Then what’s the point of having a file marked “Secret”?
    
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    October 30, 2023 4:35pm
- Dougal10
  
  Tweets aren’t reality , why should Luxon care what Winston says in a play room.
  
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  October 30, 2023 10:56am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Why does Luxon ever have to answer for other parties mps social media, this is simply another wedge being driven by rotten media who have not learnt
  
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  October 30, 2023 11:46am
ClanMcleod

Anyone who missed it, after a lot of very hard work over many months, a /debate’ was forced in the UK Parliament re the alarming rise in excess all cause mortality. NZ’s percentage is higher than the UK’s.

Back in October 2022, Mr. Bridgen pointed out the “strong correlation between vaccine uptake and the excess deaths” at the end of a statement he made in a parliamentary debate on COVID-19 vaccine safety. It took nine months of petitioning and more than twenty refusals to receive approval for this debate, which was allotted a mere 30 minutes. The call for this debate was supported by private citizens who petitioned their local MPs to attend.

This debate was opposed at every step of the way. Every effort was made to shut it down and prevent it happening. The same thing is happening in this country. Our media is even more controlled than theirs. No dissension is permitted. The only people speaking out are in the alt media which is actively censored and shadow banned.
There is no ‘free speech’ in NZ.

Despite the effort, a mere 20 MPs out of 650 bothered to show up to hear about how Britons continue to die at rates above average despite the vaccines. The public gallery, on the other hand, appeared to be full and audibly supportive of Bridgen’s position.

There is a good video of the speech by Bridgen in the link. As in NZ, there was no actual debate though that is what it was meant to be.

https://frontline.news/post/u-k-parliament-finally-debates-covid-vaccines-and-excess-death

As Mr Bridgen said at the end of his impassioned speech to the empty chambers:

“This might be the first debate on excess deaths in our Parliament. Indeed, it might be the first debate on excess deaths in the world,” Bridgen concluded, stressing that it would not be the last.

Mr Bridgen is 100% correct, no matter how much the perpetrators and instigators of the horrors of the last three years would like the whole subject to go away, it’s going nowhere. Those most responsible will never be forgotten.
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October 30, 2023 9:19am
- mawm
  
  Dr John Campbell has a new video of Andrew Bridgen raising concern over the amendments to the WHO International Health Regulations. What is worrying is that none of our political representatives are talking about this totalitarian grab of our human rights (and I don’t use this term lightly).
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfdmYi5jH-M
  
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  October 30, 2023 11:42am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    mawm – if you notice they won’t talk about anything related to the WHO power grab or anything related to Agenda 2030. Clearly the policy is, if you don’t have easy answers, avoid the topic completely.
    
    Just as the did with all issues around covid policies in the run up to the election. Total silence.
    
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    October 30, 2023 1:50pm
    - mawm
      
      Either that or they are captured/supportive of handing our sovereignty, without our permission, to the UN.
      
      I have not agreed to any mandates from the UN, WHO or WEF. I have expressed my wishes to our elective representatives. I will not allow anybody to inject into my body any substance that I do not want.
      
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      October 30, 2023 2:44pm
- goNZ1
  
  yeah, I guess the people in Gaza would have been pretty concerned about the effect of the jab ay //
  
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  October 30, 2023 1:36pm
Chuck Bird

Daniel Ricciardo was forth in F1 in Mexico last time I looked.
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October 30, 2023 9:21am
- All_on_Red
  
  Fifth
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:31am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Sixth
    
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    October 30, 2023 10:27am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Seventh
      
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      October 30, 2023 10:53am
kevn

He went forth and is coming fourth.
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October 30, 2023 9:27am
- All_on_Red
  
  Hes really fifth as Verstappen just pitted and got new tyres
  Long way to go
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:37am
  - Colville
    
    But what will the TMO say??
    
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    October 30, 2023 11:21am
- Local Miller
  
  To win, should he be a little less forth coming?
  
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  October 30, 2023 10:58am
Chuck Bird

‘Honest’ countries must defund the UN: Israel ambassador

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ5igvRzE4Q
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October 30, 2023 9:35am
- MCōs
  
  Small detail
  If it wasn’t for the UN there would be no Israel
  
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  October 30, 2023 1:33pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    The UN today is a lot different than the UN 75 years ago.
    
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    October 30, 2023 2:39pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Correct, it’s completely corrupted now. It used to be a respectable and noble idea. No longer.
      But Israel are only calling for them to be defunded because the UN won’t do their bidding. It’s no basis on which to run any organisation.
      
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      October 30, 2023 3:06pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      51 countries when the UN was chartered and more than 190 now. Plenty of reason to complain about the UN I’d like to see a proposal for a better alternative. I don’t have one.
      
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      October 30, 2023 9:52pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Honest countries should defund the WHO first.
  
  I’ve got no time for the UN, a bunch of idiots with five countries having a veto vote making the whole thing a waste of space because they never agree on anything.
  Only supporting them when they are working for your interests and opposing them on anyone else’s makes the whole thing a waste of oxygen.
  Israel calling it to be defunded is only because they don’t agree with them. Same as when they don’t do what the Russians want, or the Americans want. The whole thing is a circus full of dangerous, delusional narcissists who think they have the right to control the rest of us. Even though not one of these POS have been elected there.
  
  The WHO is a more dangerous organisation than the UN. Especially the proposed new Pandemic Response Treaty bullshit being developed with plenty of help from our very own St Ash Bloomfield. Didn’t see that coming once he’d completed his tasks here in NZ of forcing the jabs on as many people as possible. //
  
  Get rid of the WHO first, then have a look at the UN.
  
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  October 30, 2023 3:04pm
Maggie Pie

CULTURAL ENRICHMENT…..

Auckland’s Queen Street, Saturday afternoon 🙁

https://twitter.com/IsraelInstNZ/status/1718522542351380554
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October 30, 2023 9:39am
- cmm
  
  No doubt many recent imports coming to spread their love in NZ.
  
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  October 30, 2023 9:51am
  - kevn
    
    cmm… Interesting the women keep well clear of these gatherings and the aggression.
    
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    October 30, 2023 10:00am
    - cmm
      
      The chattels? No keep them in the kitchen, pregnant with the next wave of invaders.
      
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      October 30, 2023 10:27am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Who, in Immigration let these people come into NZ?
  The flag did not light. The dummies did not even have the brains to use fuel ffs.
  
  23 2
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  October 30, 2023 10:16am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    They’re dumb as a sack of Hamas
    
    😎
    
    50 1
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    October 30, 2023 10:19am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Comment of the day? Well done.
      
      25 1
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      October 30, 2023 10:20am
    - kevn
      
      Maggie… So are the ‘rainbow’ protestors.
      
      11 0
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      October 30, 2023 11:10am
      - kevn
        
        https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12685671/Looking-forward-seeing-Hamas-raise-rainbow-flag-Gaza-Israel-responds-video-showing-combined-LGBTQ-Palestinian-flag-flown-protest-activists-march-London.html
        
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        October 30, 2023 11:22am
      - Rich Prick
        
        I’m happy to chip in and send a few of these rainbow flag waving lefties on a fact finding trip to Gaza. Their flags would be compulsory accessories of course.
        
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        October 30, 2023 11:34am
kevn

Maggie (replying)… Not a patch on these people.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/watch-muslim-rioters-storm-airport-surround-rumored-flight-israel-southern-russia
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October 30, 2023 9:46am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Seems to be some sort of mental illness. There must be a pill to cure it.
  
  17 3
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  October 30, 2023 10:21am
  - John Loveridge
    
    A pill to cure Islam? Now there’s a thought.
    
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    October 30, 2023 4:36pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Maybe a hi-jab
    
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    October 30, 2023 7:59pm
- Inandout
  
  kev, when you book an overseas trip just be careful which countries you choose to visit. Travel insurance doesn’t cover political riots of any kind when claiming..
  
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  October 30, 2023 10:40am
  - kevn
    
    InOut… London is out then. They’re going nuts over there.
    
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    October 30, 2023 10:52am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

Get Maorified or lose your job.
When will people stand up to this shit?
Next is Medical Centers. “Treaty of Waitangi in Healthcare.” “Receptionists, Admin, Nurses and Doctors” will have to pass these ‘Maorification Courses”
How long will it be before clients/patients will have to pass the course or be turned away? Remembering that Doctors etc swear a ‘Hippocratic Oath.’
Time for the Govt Elect to step up to the plate. This Health BS will be getting rushed through before the change to a National Govt.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/real-estate-agents-targeted-for-indoctrination-the-next-group-medical-practices/
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October 30, 2023 9:53am
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  If you want research funding in certain fields (ecology, environmental science, earth sciences) you now have to demonstrate an apparent commitment to maatauranga too. It’s one of the funding criteria.
  
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  October 30, 2023 12:12pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Let’s get rid of more doctors, nurses, medical receptionists and administrators.
  
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  October 30, 2023 1:06pm
  - kevn
    
    info@…. Like this for example.
    https://nzdsos.com/2023/10/29/hdc-disciplines-doctor-early-treatment/
    
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    October 30, 2023 2:07pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      I read the decision on the HDC website. The Doctor involved has been told to:
      
      Complete HDC’s online training on the Code, and report back to HDC on her learnings within three months of the date of this report.
      
      Attend training on communication and professional standards, and report back to HDC on her learnings within six months of the date of this report.
      
      So re education camps are now established in New North Korea/Zealand……..?
      
      https://www.hdc.org.nz/decisions/search-decisions/2023/21hdc02706/#_Toc145930767
      
      Seriously, tell these people to gf.
      
      9 1
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      October 30, 2023 3:23pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The Covid Police. You are Not to do anything unless we say so.
      Fuck off control freaks.
      
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      October 30, 2023 5:09pm
alloytoo

The economic cost of promoting “Diversity” may well be more than the cost of denying it.
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October 30, 2023 9:59am
- cmm
  
  Naah, it is easy enough to have diversity. Just think about it differently.
  * Short people, tall people, middle size people.
  * Blonds, brunettes, red heads, black hair, bald,…
  * People who like fishing, rock climbing, canoeing,…
  * Holden drivers, Toyota, Suzuki, Honda,…
  
  There’s heaps of diversity out there without obsessing about race, what people have in their pants and what they do with it.
  
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  October 30, 2023 11:35am
Maggie Pie

And in case you’d forgotten…..

It’s ‘HALLOWEEN’ tomorrow!!

Did you hear about the 2 gay ghosts?
They gave each other the willies.
😀 😀 😀
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October 30, 2023 10:03am
- greybeard
  
  If I remember correctly they were the ghosts of the late Henry FitzPatrick and Patrick FitzHenry.
  
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  October 30, 2023 4:02pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Ben Doone and Phil McCracken
    
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    October 30, 2023 8:01pm
Colville

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby-world-cup-2023/300998466/all-blacks-star-ardie-savea-named-world-rugby-player-of-the-year-springboks-snubbed

Savea the best of the best.
Amazing chap operating at such a high level while carrying Same Cane for 80 minutes a game.
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October 30, 2023 11:44am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

I posted a comment in yesterday’s “A nail biter” thread this morning.
I thought I copied and pasted it here today. Must have screwed it up or been half asleep.

Woke up at some un-godly hour thinking about this. Referee Wayne Barnes has to put up with the crap that the TMOs tell him. Barnes may as well not be there. Every time there there was a card issued Barnes was previously listening to the TMOs. Apparently there are 7 TMOs.
Time from a yellow card to be upgraded to a red is 8 minutes. Was that adhered to?
Then we have a try dis-allowed after more than 20 minutes. Say this try was 5 minutes before full time. Now what would happen if the All Blacks had have beaten the Springboks, the presentation stage being set up, all of the officials on the field, and then the TMOs say sorry, we have dis-allowed that All Black try, Sth Africa have won.
There would be a fucking riot! TMOs should be used for advice, they should not be ruling over and above the Ref.
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October 30, 2023 12:00pm
- kevn
  
  SveO… A refereeing match.
  
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  October 30, 2023 12:39pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Facebook name – META.
Must Elect Trump Again.
Karma is a bitch.
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October 30, 2023 12:11pm
graham

Tau Henare: “Democracy? Nah, screw that bro”.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/former-mp-tau-henare-vows-retribution-against-auckland-councillors-who-voted-no-to-maori-seats/ISPZPZZFEJHAJPWVXYZXTQPGNE/

Former MP Tau Henare has vowed retribution against councillors who voted against Māori seats on Auckland Council last Thursday.

Following the vote, the deputy chair of the Independent Māori Statutory Board (IMSB) tweeted he would vote no and oppose everything put forward by the 11 councillors who voted against Māori seats at the 2025 local body elections.

Yes, because that’s a sure-fire way to win people round to your way of thinking with calm and reasoned debate.

It honestly baffles me that people like Tau Henare seem to be convinced that Maori are unable to be elected on their own merit and instead have to be gifted seats on a gilded platter.
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October 30, 2023 12:25pm
- Surely Knott
  
  That’s wild. So Tau Henare who is on the appointed Maori board that appoints two maori seats with voting rights plans to leverage that power to undermine councillors who voted against him. We already have Maori seats in the form of the IMSB and he controls it.
  
  Furthermore I can’t figure out what actually happened . Council has voted to defer the Maori Ward seats for further consultation which means they won’t have them for next election. But what of the IMSB Maori seats. It seems they remain. And am I correct that Tau Henare is proposing The Maori Ward seats should be in addition to the IMSB Maori seats whcih were supposed to be temporary. We haven’t had clear news reports.
  
  And furthermore the IMSB states there should be 7 representatives (5 mana whenua local iwi and 2 matawaka iwi from further away) that then vote in the 2 reps on council. But their are only 5 representatives. And for those who are Matawaka eg Maori from iwi not from Auckland did you get to vote for your rep. Is the IMSB conforming to its statutory requirements.
  
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  October 30, 2023 1:44pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Tau will never admit “Maori are unable to be elected on their own merit and instead have to be gifted seats on a gilded platter” because they are lazy and want a “free” ride.
  If we can convince Te Pakeha to do this, we are home and hosed.
  
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  October 30, 2023 6:39pm
Swifty

Tau Henare throws a tanty:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/former-mp-tau-henare-vows-retribution-against-auckland-councillors-who-voted-no-to-maori-seats/ISPZPZZFEJHAJPWVXYZXTQPGNE/

All because he didn’t get what he wants.

“Let me win or I’m taking my ball and going home….!”
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October 30, 2023 12:38pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  It’s good, the morons expose themselves for the narcissistic twats they are everytime they open their mouth or post something on the internet.
  People are seeing them for what the really are and it’s ugly.
  
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  October 30, 2023 5:09pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  He only has one ball? Well, really!!
  
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  October 30, 2023 6:41pm
gravedodger

@ Prince, for the second half in that Third test, Kevin Skinner went to the other side and gave Chris Koch the same lesson and scrummaging settled down.
That was the legend I was taught anyway.

https://allblacksopenforum.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/jaapbekker.jpg
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October 30, 2023 12:39pm
Surely Knott

Just came home from a public Senior High School Prizegiving. (yr 11+12). There were 8 beautifully carved Trophies on the awards table. 4 per year . The trophies went to: 1. Sports. 2. Arts. 3 Maori Culture. 4. Citizenship (eg helping teachers)
There was no trophy for any Academic prize. Not for Dux or 2nd runner up Dux, Maths, Science or English. Academic awards received certificates.
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October 30, 2023 12:43pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Where? So I know where not to send my grandkids.
  
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  October 30, 2023 12:57pm
  - MCōs
    
    My kids decide which school their kids go to, not me.
    
    When I went to school in the 50s & 60s prizes were handed out for a plethora of academic subjects and it seemed like it was always the same boys, none of whom was your correspondent
    Finally in my last year at St Bedes myself and another chap came second equal in the General Knowledge exam. We’d sat next to each other and pooled resources
    
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    October 30, 2023 5:29pm
- cmm
  
  Apart from the new woke categories, is this anything new?
  
  At the high school I went to in South Africa during the 70s there were numerous awards and badges for every sport under the sun.
  
  But on the academic side there was only one category: academics, for which it was harder to get a prize. 4 or 5 people in the whole school got one of those.
  
  Even though I was way ahead of everyone else in both maths and science (physics and chemistry) I only just got an award because my history score was low.
  
  You would think there would be a category for each major subject, but no, acknowledging water polo is more important than acknowledging maths or science.
  
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  October 30, 2023 12:57pm
  - David Garrett
    
    cmm: At high school – Marist school in Gisborne – I was what was then called “a soccer sap”, because of course real men only played rugby.
    
    We grew to accept that at assembly on a Monday morning there would be the first XV announcement – with a few highlights if said team had won – and then down through the grades to whatever grade most 3rd formers played in.
    
    And the end of these announcements was often “And first eleven won 3-nil”
    
    We learned to get used to it. We didn’t even have a soccer field – we were banished to a field down the road. That was NZ in the 70’s
    
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    October 30, 2023 1:10pm
    - lifesgood
      
      Yes, my soccer playing sons suffered through this at high school too. Made them angry and resentful. 1st XV players also got to be Prefects whether they deserved to be or not. My sons are smart lads, though and they soon realised a lot of the rugby “stars” were just boozy boof heads so made other friends. Interestingly their old high school has far more soccer teams than rugby teams now
      
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      October 30, 2023 2:14pm
      - AitchW
        
        I’m going to date myself with this comment, but at the school I attended the 1st XV players were as good as guaranteed to be accredited with UE regardless of academic performance. The rest of us had to earn it.
        
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        October 30, 2023 6:01pm
    - kevn
      
      DG… What did they call the hockey players then?
      I ‘played’ hockey as it was weapon based so great opportunity for mayhem.
      
      8 1
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      October 30, 2023 4:00pm
    - AitchW
      
      Still the case at a lot of private schools. They hang their hats on the 1st XV and their performances at Maadi Cup. They buy ring ins from state schools with generous scholarships and ruthlessly cull paying students to make way for the imports.
      
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      October 30, 2023 5:57pm
      - AitchW
        
        That is the rowing crews performances at Maadi, not the 1st XV…
        
        2 0
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        October 30, 2023 6:04pm
    - rangitoto
      
      We had rugby men, soccer boys and hockey people according to the headmaster.
      
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      October 30, 2023 5:59pm
- Nickc2
  
  Are you surprised?
  I’m not! It’s the way of Aotearoa (formerly known as New Zealand). If the country’s not dumbed down, there will be no prizes for such people eh?
  
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  October 30, 2023 2:39pm
Maggie Pie

Best thing you’ll hear this week 😀

“We’ve had six years of Kia-oraism. If Luxon doesn’t radically change the direction
of this country and turn back the tide of wokeness, New Zealand is stuffed!”

– Banksy (John Banks speaks with Sean Plunket)

https://twitter.com/2ETEKA/status/1718743550098370565
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October 30, 2023 12:59pm
- David Garrett
  
  Maggie: You mean the “man” who denied clear evidence that a child he fathered 30 years ago was his? I have zero respect for that man.
  
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  October 30, 2023 1:58pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    LINK? Sounds like could be a bit of juicy goss 😛
    
    Banksy used to live up the road from us and his wife Amanda was manager of our Phamacy. She was sooo lovely. We got on real well. Funny she never mentioned it.
    
    7 2
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    October 30, 2023 2:11pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      It’s very old news..
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/john-banks-loses-paternity-case-brought-by-antony-shaw/55IIEAEFGOG6GQ4G7KEXCSS4QM/
      
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      October 30, 2023 2:21pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Maggy: So what if it’s “very old news”? The guy is a cad…even tried to get the man’s mother to abort him. A first class prick in other words.
        
        I believe his wife left him some years ago…you are right, she was/is a lovely lady.
        
        6 7
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        October 30, 2023 2:38pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Thx for that Maggz.
        Be intersting to see if any of the girls at tennis were aware.
        Given the passage of time Banksy must just of forgotten do you think?
        Must say those side-by-side mug shots do have an eerie similarity.
        
        5 5
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        October 30, 2023 2:41pm
      - David Garrett
        
        “Mr Banks could have righted the wrongs of the past by taking responsibility now and it is disappointing that he did not have the courage or courtesy to do so and I was forced to go through this process
        
        I used to engage with Banks from time to time on law and order issues…that abruptly ceased after Mr Shaw’s court case and Banks’ refusal to do the right bloody thing.
        
        13 4
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        October 30, 2023 2:47pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        DG – almost everyone deserves a clean slate after the passage of time. You, of all people, must surely appreciate that – yes?
        
        6 2
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        October 30, 2023 6:32pm
      - Ghost
        
        A clean slate comes with admitting your faults. Banks was still fighting his 47 year old son in court over a paternity test 6 years ago
        
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        October 30, 2023 6:40pm
Maggie's partner

They say the three greatest sounds in rugby are: The Welsh singing their national anthem at the Millenium, the Irish singing the Fields of Athenry in Dublin, and Kiwis moaning about the ref if the ABs lose.
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October 30, 2023 2:09pm
- David Garrett
  
  MP: Very good Sir…I got pilloried on here yesterday for predicting exactly what would inevitably transpire – and it has, exactly as I predicted.
  
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  October 30, 2023 2:50pm
- mogg
  
  Not so long ago Owen Farrell was being called all the bastards under the sun for doing exactly what Sam Cane did yesterday, how is this different?
  
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  October 30, 2023 3:13pm
  - MCōs
    
    What was that?
    
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    October 30, 2023 5:00pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    ffs Cane isn’t in the same ballpark as Farrell let alone on the same paddock when it comes to that. Farrell is an out and out thug who deliberately targets the head.
    
    Cane’s was an accident. And no, I’m not a rabid, one eyed AB supporter, I rarely watch the game. I follow soccer.
    
    Here’s some examples of Farrell in action. See if you can find me any similar ones of Cane doing the same???
    
    https://x.com/jaredwright17/status/1691388905889656832?s=20
    
    https://x.com/jaredwright17/status/1691388911891755008?s=20
    
    https://x.com/jaredwright17/status/1694625505285181621?s=20
    
    Cane probably deserved the red according to the letter of the law, but it was an accident. The SA skipper should have been a red too if consistency was applied.
    
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    October 30, 2023 5:24pm
    - mogg
      
      It’s always nice to hear an impartial view.
      
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      October 30, 2023 6:19pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Mogg – my reply is totally impartial. I’ve shown you multiple links to Farrell’s clear thuggery, deliberately targeting the head and neck of players with zero attempt to use arms in the tackle. Pure violence.
        
        I asked you to find me comparable video of Cane doing anything similar which is what you claimed in your post. That they are basically guilty of the same thing.
        Have you been able to find any supporting evidence yet?
        If you do, I’ll retract my comment and apologise.
        
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        October 30, 2023 6:58pm
    - mogg
      
      And yet Farrell’s only red card was reviewed and later rescinded, and Cane’s sending off was the prime example of a shoulder only tackle to the head.
      He could also go for a review but I would put money on it failing, so does that make it an international conspiracy against the AB’s ?
      
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      October 30, 2023 7:41pm
  - AitchW
    
    I must disagree strongly. Farrell has repeatedly gone into tackles leading with the shoulder aimed at the head and made no attempt to use his arms. (If I were less charitable I’d say because they were too busy dragging his knuckles..)
    Cane was almost stationary, led with his arms and the Saffer was dropping. Cane’s sin was not bending at the hips.
    
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    October 30, 2023 5:53pm
Maggie Pie

The Horrid reports….

Thanks to numerous discounts, Ngaruawahia man jailed
for engaging in Maori foreplay could be home for Xmas.

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1717393920739430718
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October 30, 2023 3:04pm
Tauhei Notts

Maori foreplay
That is a gem.
Your comment, I mean.
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October 30, 2023 3:43pm
Maggie Pie

ZB reports…. more than 100 experienced Police Officers with 3 – 5 years service are heading to Oz, where the pay & conditions are twice as better than they can get here.
Police Assoc. spokesman says Treasury has refused to allocate any further budget to attract them to stay.

So we get Australia’s worst crims….they get our best Cops.
Thanks Labor. Thanks Cuddles.

SHEEESH!!
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October 30, 2023 4:25pm
- David Garrett
  
  Unless the journo who wrote that story was even more illiterate than the norm, I’m very comfident that s/he never said the pay and conditions were “twice as better” in Australia…and you from St Cuths or Baradene Maggie…
  
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  October 30, 2023 5:07pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    You are correct of course DG.
    Just listened again to ZB-On-Demand and the word used was “betterer”…..
    which according to my old Collins is ‘one step higher than better’
    
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    October 30, 2023 7:14pm
    - David Garrett
      
      I’m sure you are taking the piss…there is no such word as “betterer” in the Kings English…
      
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      October 30, 2023 7:22pm
      - Ghost
        
        Want a laugh?
        
        https://www.collinsdictionary.com/submission/177/betterer
        
        Sigh.
        
        2 0
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        October 30, 2023 7:27pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Status: This word is being monitored for evidence of usage.
        
        Oh dear…that suggests that if enough semi-literates uses it, betterer will become a new word…
        
        “predate” is not a word either…” apex predators PREY on those lower on the food chain”
        
        And then we have “learnings” FFS…I have even seen cabinet Ministers using it instead of the tried and true “lessons”…(Learning is not a verb)
        
        4 0
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        October 30, 2023 7:54pm
      - Ghost
        
        Do you know you deserve betterer with a home loan?
        
        https://www.resimac.co.nz/deserve-betterer
        
        2 0
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        October 30, 2023 8:03pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Grief…
        
        Things are getting worser and worser.
        
        0 0
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        October 30, 2023 8:12pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, as writ.
  ‘Lucrative pay and enticing housing packages are luring a number of Kiwi police officers across the ditch.
  
  Australian police figures show 77 officers are leaving to work in Queensland, and close to 20 are heading off to the Northern Territory.
  
  Constables starting out in the region start out on $100,000 a year, and experienced officers could expect a $118,000 base salary- with $20,000 on offer to cover relocation costs.
  
  Police Association president Chris Cahill is concerned these numbers could snowball if officers who leave are open about these incentives.
  
  “The real concern is- if they get over there and what they see is as good as they’ve been told. They’ll start telling their mates, one tells one etc. It’s a real concern.”
  
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  October 30, 2023 5:25pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    They won’t tell their mates about what it is like to police an area of poor drunken aboriginals ….
    
    7 0
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    October 30, 2023 6:11pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      I know a cop based in Darwin. He’s on a good wicket. No complaints, and he’s much happier there than in Brisbane where he was previously based.
      
      6 1
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      October 30, 2023 6:20pm
    - kowtow
      
      Cahill already dropped more than a wee bit of “casual racism” in the interview with Lame ( wasn’t picked up either ) when he said NT police work not as cushey as Qld as NT dealing with aborigines .
      
      2 1
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      October 30, 2023 8:28pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Probably the same everywhere TBH.
        Where would you rather patrol here….the mean streets of West Auckland, or parked up outside Baker’s Delight on Remuera Rd?
        
        2 1
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        October 30, 2023 9:07pm
goNZ1

export Tarrant NOW – why should NZ pay for his comfy cell
5 0
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October 30, 2023 4:50pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Re email I had from Don Brash, Hobson’s Pledge on Saturday.
The submissions link did not work but it does now.
Hauraki Gulf / Tīkapa Moana Marine Protection Bill.

It proposes that only Māori be allowed to fish, trawl, and gather seafood in the Gulf.

SUBMISSIONS CLOSE IN JUST TWO DAYS, AND WE NEED YOUR HELP TO VOICE OUR CONCERNS.
Make a submission by 11.59pm on Wednesday November 1st.
We have drafted a template response below that you are welcome to use, or write your own:

1) I support the proposed extensions of the two existing marine reserves: Cape Rodney – Okakari Point Marine Reserve (Goat Island) near Leigh and the Whanganui A Hei (Cathedral Cove) Marine Reserve on the Coromandel Peninsula – where all fishing, trawling and harvesting of seafood is banned for all people.

2)I oppose the proposed Seabed Protection Areas, which allow ‘customary rights’ to be exercised by tangata whenua, while banning all other New Zealanders or visitors. Instead, I would support these areas of seabed being protected from all people and visitors, no matter their identity or ancestral lines.
3)I oppose the 12 proposed ‘Highly Protected Areas’, which allow ‘customary rights’ to be exercised by tangata whenua, while banning all other New Zealanders or visitors. Instead, I would support these areas being made marine reserves, and thereby protected from all people and visitors, no matter their identity or ancestral lines.

Closes 11.59pm on Wednesday 1st Nov.

https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/sc/make-a-submission/document/54SCENV_SCF_78FF85F3-7991-4963-60B2-08DBA2A4022F/hauraki-gulf-t%C4%ABkapa-moana-marine-protection-bill

Fill ya boots!
8 1
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October 30, 2023 5:23pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Yup. Have done so.
  
  4 0
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  October 30, 2023 6:20pm
- waikatosinger
  
  There is a long and very complicated history with regard to fisheries settlements and customary fishing rights and how these interact with the management of recreational and commercial fisheries. Many of the treaty claims that were settled with various iwi also have something to say about the matter. And there have also been some cases in the courts which have created legal precedents. Given this very complicated situation I would not be willing to even have an opinion without conducting a great deal more research.
  
  I suspect that it is highly likely that previously signed agreements and settlements prevent the government from setting up a marine reserve which could restrict Maori customary fishing in the area. Hence the exception for Maori. I am not happy about having racially based laws, but neither do I want the government to violate promises to Maori that it has made in the past, because doing so would just create another grievance.
  
  6 2
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  October 30, 2023 6:37pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I have said this here before. Maori only fishing areas sure.
    But only bone fishing hooks, woven flax lines, and stone sinkers (unless they are straylining.
    None of this mono, braid, carbon fibre rods with ceramic rings.
    No berley baskets – although a hinaki will work.
    Um guys, us fellas better shut up e hoa. Te Pakeha are laughing!
    
    Oh, did I mention GPS and fishfinders? Electric rod reels with depth counters?
    
    7 1
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    October 30, 2023 7:03pm
Maggie Pie

Sounds to me like Jack Lame might be quietly pooing himself?
He just said….. he regarded Winston as one of our most competent Foreign Ministers and considers he would be a ‘steady hand’ in government.

Wonder if Jacko’s got the ‘inside-running’ on who’s getting the Broadcasting portfolio. LOL!!
19 1
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October 30, 2023 5:35pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, he fills in for HDPA at 4pm does he not?
  
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  October 30, 2023 5:43pm
  - AitchW
    
    He does, and does a pretty average job by comparison.
    
    10 0
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    October 30, 2023 6:02pm
    - kowtow
      
      Is “average ” a euphemism for ‘shit’.
      
      5 0
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      October 30, 2023 8:24pm
- Notsofast
  
  Broadcasting for Winston would be heaven in a godless world.
  I pray you are right.
  
  5 0
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  October 30, 2023 8:40pm
Maggie Pie

And did youse guys see on 1Eews the Maori Haka Pardy greeting American tourists at Auckland airport, when they disembaked for the first time off United and Delta flights into NZ?
Sorry – but wot an embarrasment!
Like my partner said….can’t see a tribe of First Nations People welcoming him with a war dance next time he pulls into LAX.

Jyst sayin.
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October 30, 2023 6:41pm
- waikatosinger
  
  Arrive in Hawaii and beautiful girls hang flowers around your neck, dance for you and sing songs of welcome. Arrive in New Zealand and a large under-dressed tattooed guy shouts at you, pokes out his tongue and threatens you with a spear.
  
  14 0
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  October 30, 2023 7:02pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    And rolls eyes……
    
    8 1
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    October 30, 2023 7:30pm
- alwyn.a
  
  Just head east for about 16 km after you get out of the Airport.
  They won’t be First Nations People but the people in Watts might welcome him in a style rather like a war dance.
  
  2 0
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  October 30, 2023 7:32pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    My partner reckons he heard a white cop was necklaced there last year 🙁
    
    1 1
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    October 30, 2023 7:39pm
Surely Knott

The gangsta idiots that were in the house when Baby Ruthless Empire died have been named.

Storm Wall (babies mother), Rosie Morunga and Dylan Ross who were a couple and it was their state house.

Today’s article says “, police confirmed Ruthless-Empire was the only child staying in the Taitā property.”

But google shows Dylan and Rosie were in the news in Dec 7 2022 , and both appear to have children. So where are they. The article was about them complaining about Mould on their state house. Dylan said “he was denied access to his children because of the black mould”. And Rosie said she was 31 weeks pregnant crying herself to sleep due to not having a state house without mould.

So where are Rosie and Dylan’s children now? Why was Baby Ruthless the only child living at the address. Have they had all of their children taken off them. Why were they still in a state home?

https://issuu.com/wsn11/docs/7_december_wainuiomata_news_s (p3)
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October 30, 2023 8:35pm

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