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October 23, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 23 October 2023

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krazykiwi

Labour day without Labour. Joyful.
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October 23, 2023 8:06am
- Taieri
  
  Not for the True Believers…
  
  From the Letters to Editor:
  
  “It is a cliche that people get the government they deserve. New Zealand’s wealthy certainly got what they paid millions for. The rest are getting up to $250 per fortnight. Sorry, I added a nought by mistake.
  And none of us are getting clean water, affordable housing, action on climate change and efficient services, as Luxon and Seymour’s knives cut to the bone.”
  
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  October 23, 2023 8:34am
  - pdm
    
    Note to writer of said letter to an Editor (somewhere).
    
    Did you help with funding of your preferred party, assumed to be Labour by the tenor of your letter, or are you one who sits on the sidelines and moans when they lose?
    
    Mmmmm thought it would be the latter.
    
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    October 23, 2023 8:40am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    There are not enough “wealthy” people in New Zealand to determine an election outcome.
    
    Anyway you just cannot reason with these people.
    
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    October 23, 2023 8:55am
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      Ah, but according to Twitter/X, it was cash inflows from overseas and, of course, National’s social media professionals that stole the election for them.
      
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      October 23, 2023 9:06am
      - I remember when
        
        Like the same overseas from whence people that have not, or seldom, been in NZ for years cast their votes from.
        
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        October 23, 2023 9:52am
      - 70andstilllearning
        
        Probably some truth in that first bit – Warner Bros Discovery must of stumped up a fair bit of cash over three years with the nightly 3ewes advertorials. Wonder how long before they pull the plug on the sunk cost ….
        
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        October 23, 2023 10:20am
      - Don Beckett
        
        2@Suze.
        And remember to add, ‘Russian disinformation’. 😆
        
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        October 23, 2023 10:32am
      - tknorriss
        
        Of course, that explains why Labour lost. And here I was thinking it was because Labour had become the most hated government in the history of New Zealand. Silly me.
        
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        October 23, 2023 12:24pm
    - Swifty
      
      National haven’t even formed a government yet but already they are being castigated for house prices etc.
      
      Some people just can’t help making fools of themselves.
      
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      October 23, 2023 9:09am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Some people just can’t help making fools of themselves.
        
        That’s what imbibing 6 years of relentless Labour sycophancy does to your brain.
        
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        October 23, 2023 9:28am
      - Suze Wainwright
        
        aotearoa’s msm seem to be expert at telling us what every aspect of society/economy in this country will look like under a National-led govt.
        
        Will their analysis be a measure of the rigour they put into the potential workings of the Green’s wealth tax proposals…?
        
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        October 23, 2023 9:39am
      - Taieri
        
        National haven’t even formed a government yet but already they are being castigated for house prices etc.
        ———-
        
        The Letter to the Editor, from which I quoted in the post above, says it all…
        
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        October 23, 2023 9:58am
      - david
        
        Taeri,
        I would suggest that the fact it was even published says it all.
        You cant tell me that Letters to the Editor are not carefully selected to further a narrative, I have had enough rejection notices to be aware of that.
        
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        October 23, 2023 12:47pm
    - Jack5
      
      Labour created a Leftist cartel of State-owned and State-subsidised media.
      
      It’s unrealistic to think it collapsed on election night.
      
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      October 23, 2023 9:27am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Rodney Hide commented this morning that maybe the media was always like this. The difference now is that we have so many open source media and blogs to get to the truth.
        
        I’m not so sure. I think they have become worse in the last 6 years. A couple of times I have looked at New Zealand newspaper archives from the 80s and 90s for some research. They seemed totally different (better, more balanced). I know that is not conclusive.
        
        The other thing is that unlike (say) the UK and Australia there are literally no balanced and sane mainstream media outlets. In Australia, The Australian and the Australian Financial Review remain pretty good newspapers with talented journalists.
        
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        October 23, 2023 9:46am
      - Jack5
        
        Rodney Hide’s wrong.
        
        Apart from the technological change and competition from the internet, there have been changes in the retailing industry, which provided much advertising income to newspapers, especially in the regions.
        
        Changes, too, in journalists. Once an occupation where training was mostly “on the job,” this is now a domain of university social-science graduates.
        
        The “Australian Financial Review” NZ is is owned by Nine Entertainment, but earlier was part of Fairfax Media which sold NZ’s Stuff chain ( well the mastheads, – the intangible assets – less printing plants and office buildings, etc) to its present owner for $1.
        
        Nine Entertainment is an Australian Stock Exchange listed company, but “The Australian” is owned by the Murdoch-controlled News Corp. Murdoch had a lion’s share of Independent Newspapers Ltd (INL), the progenitor of Stuff, but quit it in 2003.
        
        Fairfax at the same time bought INL for $1.19 billion.
        
        Yep, $1.19 billion to $1 for the print and digital remnants in 2020.
        
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        October 23, 2023 10:34am
    - Taieri
      
      Well, according to Rob Lawson, Professor Emeritus of the Otago University the election was virtually purchased by ACT and National. He’s determined that on the basis of donations received by the main political parties, where ACT received $22.67 per vote, National received $9.91 per vote, but Labour received only $2.19 per vote. As Rob Lawson was the professor of marketing in his academic life, I’m sure he is correct in his conclusions. What I’m not sure about, is where’s my cut from all that since I voted National? May be the cheque is still in the mail…
      
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      October 23, 2023 9:56am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Did Professor Lawson produce a similar analysis after the 2017 and 2020 elections?
        
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        October 23, 2023 10:14am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        On that basis, you’d expect ACT to be the winninest (sorry, couldn’t resist) party. As it’s not, that would undermine Prof Lawson’s conclusion, no?
        
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        October 23, 2023 10:38am
      - Jack5
        
        Not sure about the credentials of Otago University business courses.
        
        Until recently they had an “entrepreneurship” course that was taught by a Leftist commentator who was a former trade union official.
        
        Then, of course, Otago University research has to be vetted by a Maori committee, presumably of local Ngai Tahu.
        
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        October 23, 2023 10:49am
      - Philview
        
        David Clark has just stood down as an MP and taken a governance role at Otago University. Claire Curran is already on the same governance council at Otago University. Easy to assume Labour have a strong influence on that University.
        
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        October 23, 2023 12:45pm
      - peterwn
        
        Nicola will have a nice cheque in the mail for you when she has sorted our the economy and re-scaled tax brackets.
        
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        October 23, 2023 12:51pm
      - peterwn
        
        He forgot to mention Union contributions – such as unions commissioning attack ads on Chris Luxon and union employees and vehicles being made available for Labour campaign purposes. There would be a big fuss if employers seconded employees, vehicles and other resources to National or ACT to run campaigns.
        
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        October 23, 2023 12:56pm
      - Colinxy
        
        I was wondering when the wails of “democracy has failed” would start from the socialists.
        
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        October 23, 2023 3:55pm
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Taieri, under Labour the rich get poorer. And so do the poor. But the poor keep voting to get poorer. That tells you pretty much everything you need to know about the people that write stuff in, and similar to your post. None of them bother to read anything, none know that house prices have gone up higher and faster under the last two Labour Governments (affordable housing under Labour? Snort with derision) and none have any idea that services have become exponentially less efficient under Labour. They do not want to know. They get exactly what they deserve.
    
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    October 23, 2023 9:32am
    - Taieri
      
      That tells you pretty much everything you need to know about the people that write stuff in, and similar to your post.
      ————
      
      The bloke who wrote that letter used to be, I believe, a commercial valuer. He’s been spouting this stuff as long as I can remember and I have a very good memory…
      
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      October 23, 2023 10:01am
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        As I say, it tells you a lot about Mr Commercial Valuer. For instance “as Luxon and Seymour’s knives cut to the bone”. Yeah, as knives cut to the bone, given they are not even the Government yet. You can’t make this shit up.
        
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        October 23, 2023 12:54pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    I thought the unions bankrolled the Labour Party election campaign.
    The letter writer should complain to the CTU for being too tight-fisted to pay what was required for Labour to “win”.
    
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    October 23, 2023 9:32am
  - Trev
    
    FFS Nact have not even started governing yet and the sky has fallen in. There are some deluded souls about. Labour spent $55 million plus more than double that on advertising besides campaign funding to coerce most media in to giving Labour sympathetic coverage but still got the boot. Labour were so useless that despite all encumbency and spending advantages they had the people decided enough was enough. Time for that letter writer to lay off the Kool Aid.
    
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    October 23, 2023 11:33am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Taieri, there is no saving us from idiots, and in cases such as the author of the letter, there are some who are not bright enough to have the right to vote.
    
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    October 23, 2023 2:33pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  For the non working classes, public holidays are such a nuisance. Shops closed, buses on a limited timetable, cafes and beaches crowded, surcharges – the list goes on.
  
  Best to ban them.
  
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  October 23, 2023 9:13am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  It’s quite strange really, because i sense the people in the street are happy, no one says anything, but it’s like a weight is lifted off them
  
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  October 23, 2023 11:44am
- Lee C
  
  … and this in the UK: https://youtu.be/ZbjnKRny4wQ
  
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  October 23, 2023 7:51pm
Biscuit

Careful, kk, Chippie’s momentum is building up steam!
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October 23, 2023 8:09am
- 3-coil
  
  Interesting tidbit in AndreaVance’s story: during the election campaign, loved-up Chippie was totally distracted by his sweet new squeeze “Toni”. She reports he was “always on his phone” keeping in touch playing on-line Scrabble games with Toni Grice…he didn’t look like he wanted to be there.
  
  Vance (and the other MSM hacks) knew this during the 4week Chris vs Chris contest/tour around the country, but kept it under wraps. They didn’t relay the news to the public, they covered it up – that’s not in the “social contract” of the Fourth Estate to the citizens of New Zealand is it? Vance is evidently not an honest newsperson – is she a vainglorious propagandist, lazy, bought&paid for, and/or corrupt, all of the above, etc etc?…who knows. But only a fool would trust her.
  
  Edit: ask Peter Dunne 😉
  
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  October 23, 2023 9:12am
  - rouppe
    
    Ah yes, that honey trap…
    
    Peter Dunne at that time must have been at a very low point in his life…
    
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    October 23, 2023 10:02am
    - 3-coil
      
      Yes rouppe, the old fool was scraping the bottom of the barrel…
      
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      October 23, 2023 1:52pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Just imagine if Luxon was texting even election business, they would tear him a new one for being off his game. So there😃
    
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    October 23, 2023 11:47am
  - blue collar
    
    Hmmmmmm ….. you got me thinking brother coil
    I thought chippy used Covid to stop electioneering and shore up his support
    
    Now I’m wondering if he just wanted a week all alone with Toni 🥰
    
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    October 23, 2023 6:22pm
    - 3-coil
      
      Yes blue collar, that’s an entirely plausible theory.
      He did look pretty emotional and exhausted…after a whole week off recuperating “alone” in his 5-star hotel room! It was more than Scrabble fatigue I reckon.
      
      I’d even wondered if Toni might be a far-right sleeper agent, planted by the hard-right nasty Nats (or a long line of other possibles) to derail the fragile man-boy…? Spectacular success if true! 😂
      
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      October 23, 2023 7:00pm
Tauhei Notts

World Cup. Foreign bookies have NZ @ $1.90 c.f. South Africa @ $2.25.
At 11 a.m. yesterday they were $1.99 each. It appears the people who back their judgement with money have had a second look at that England match.
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October 23, 2023 8:09am
- Biscuit
  
  TN, $1.99 each?
  
  Clearly not the rorting NZ TAB at work: here the odds would be offered at $1.87 each.
  
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  October 23, 2023 8:16am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    Current odds on the NZ TAB are NZ at $1.67 and SA at $2.10
    
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    October 23, 2023 8:19am
  - hullkiwi
    
    On Friday night, I got 2.00 for the ABs to win the RWC.
    
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    October 23, 2023 8:21am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      I got $2.10 on Sports Bet Aust before the game with Argentina.
      
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      October 23, 2023 10:42am
  - Michael Sommerville
    
    I think you will find the difference between the two is NZ tax.
    
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    October 23, 2023 8:25am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  SA did not go well under pressure, just like when we hammered them in Sept, let’s not forget when they beat us before the World Cup, we had 5 of our best performing players out, and 4 forwards we could not win without, and yes Gordie Barrett is one of our better performing players now he is playing 2nd 5
  
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  October 23, 2023 11:57am
- Colville
  
  Before or after Wayne Barnes was announced as ref for the game???
  
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  October 23, 2023 7:37pm
Drone

The specials are not in yet, the overseas and disorganized greens don’t vote NACT.
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October 23, 2023 8:10am
- Inandout
  
  Drone, escapees to Oz mostly do.
  
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  October 23, 2023 8:33am
- Stephen Russell
  
  It beats me how they can count 80% of the votes in three hours, but the other 20% takes three weeks.
  
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  October 23, 2023 9:02am
  - Terry Dalee
    
    They do another official count for a start.
    The other thing about special votes is that they have to be couriered back to the electorate headquarters they were cast for.
    Then there is a whole process to verify whether the elector is eligible and the vote then included or discarded. Also any apparent dual votes need to be followed up and investigated.
    Any confirmed dual votes then have to be found, by going through all the ballot papers and pulled.
    
    There’s a heap of processes that you might not be aware of going on that takes time…
    
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    October 23, 2023 9:30am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Everything is checked and double-checked. All the rolls from polling places are checked against a master roll to identify any duplicate voting. Votes are counted and recounted, and those which were disallowed are rechecked.
      
      However it’s worth noting that in 1975, the first election I was involved in, the official numbers were confirmed on the Tuesday evening ten days after the election. Three weeks does seem excessive.
      
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      October 23, 2023 10:46am
      - Terry Dalee
        
        The numbers of ballots to process have increased from 1975.. but comparing the rolls is semi-automated.
        
        Each roll is spiral bound. You pull the wire binding and it comes out in one go. Now you have a whole lot of loose leaf pages.
        The pages are then all fed into a scanner and scanned. The entire lot of rolls, every roll in the electorate. Then this allows the comparison for dual votes.
        The scanned rolls are then carefully placed, in sequence into storage boxes, sealed and sent back to Wellington at the end of processing…
        
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        October 23, 2023 9:03pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      The votes could be scaned and emailed to the right electerate.
      
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      October 23, 2023 10:54am
    - Matt Long
      
      Are people who have dual votes informed? It could help bring out if there was any pattern of irregularities.
      
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      October 23, 2023 11:02am
      - peterwn
        
        There is the odd prosecution for duplicate voting but cases due to senility etc would be dealt with in a light handed manner. If numbers are close or if there is a judicial recount then presumably some attempt would be made to determine whether the duplicate votes were cast by different people to try and identify the genuine vote so it could be included.
        In NZ (unlike many other countries) the voter’s roll number is written on a voting paper and covered by a black sticker. If a voting paper for a duplicate voter has to be found then authority would be given to remove the stickers until the voting papers of interest are located.
        
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        October 23, 2023 1:20pm
      - Terry Dalee
        
        Yes, you have to make a phone call and do a interview over the phone.
        Often it was a roll mistake, just the wrong line in the roll marked off.
        The other bit that sometimes happens is that some people have forgotten they’ve already voted and made a second vote as an honest mistake. Quite often a check of the background of the elector corresponds as to how the mistake came about. Often they get taken to a polling station by the rest home and then later on the family take them to the polling station and they have forgotten. No prosecution for such cases but unfortunately both ballots still get pulled.
        
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        October 23, 2023 8:57pm
  - Lance
    
    Typical for any project.
    The bulk (80%) is straight forward and the remaining 20% is a huge PITA and generally difficult.
    Just saying
    
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    October 23, 2023 5:23pm
- gravedodger
  
  It was reported the majority of the specials are Out of electorate votes cast here in NZ so why will they not mirror what was counted on election day evening?
  
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  October 23, 2023 9:22am
  - Observer of Life
    
    There were quite a few “enrolments on the day” specials too, apparently. Which IMHO shouldn’t be allowed. If you can’t get your sh*t together before the day – TOUGH!
    
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    October 23, 2023 3:07pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Only 70000 overseas votes many outraged the way they were treated, and 500k specials, many were special’s because when people turned up to booths they could not find their names, half of that 500 k will be Aucklanders, and on election night Auckland delivered Nats 45% support averaged over all of Auckland, I am not so sure the specials will go left.
  
  Hosking said every time he votes he has to go specials because his name never appears on the electoral roll, and a lad from work was shocked when he went to vote and his name was not there, he shift since the last election, but sending back the address sheets should have fixed this.
  
  Two right votes from the specials right there
  
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  October 23, 2023 12:04pm
  - peterwn
    
    Mr Hosking should check that he is on the roll by checking the roll at the local library. If anyone finds they are not on the roll on election day they should get hold of a form and enrol. Mr Hosking probably thinks he is too busy and important to do this.
    
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    October 23, 2023 1:25pm
    - graham
      
      My understanding is that people can request to have their name withheld from the roll, and this is not unusual for high-profile people, high-ranking detectives, and so on.
      
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      October 23, 2023 2:06pm
      - peterwn
        
        If Mr Hosking has had his name removed from the public roll he should not be complaining when polling staff cannot find his name on the roll. This seems to be the same Mr Hosking who unsuccessfully went to court to try and stop a photo of his family being published.
        
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        October 23, 2023 8:44pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

On Labour Day, it’s apposite to ask what the people of the Labour Party represent. I look at their more prominent members and there are few or no working people. Rather, they are intersectionalist, (over) represented by gays and lesbians, Maoris and academics.

Samuel Parnell wouldn’t recognise them.
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October 23, 2023 8:10am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Given their noisy advocacy for the beneficiary classes, perhaps they should rebrand as the Non Labour Party?
  
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  October 23, 2023 8:41am
  - Colinxy
    
    It would be fitting; they’d more closely emulate their prophet and bum, Karl Marx. Throw in abusing the help, and they’ll nail him perfectly.
    
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    October 23, 2023 10:18am
    - Matt Long
      
      Hi Colinxy, enjoyed your contribution yesterday, can you recommend reading for a more in-depth look?
      
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      October 23, 2023 11:06am
      - Colinxy
        
        Tricky to answer.
        
        A lot of it initially came from the YouTube channel TikHistory https://www.youtube.com/@TheImperatorKnight , especially his comparisons and differences over Communism, National Socialism and Fascism.
        
        However, in one of his videos, he started going on about gnostics (with a little ‘g’) and I had been researching Gnostics quite a bit at the time. This somehow re-introduced me back to the Grievance Paper authors (Peter Boghossian, Helen Pluckrose and James Lindsay). All three of them have written books on the subject, or better yet podcasts which you can listen to. Here is James Lindsay’s YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@newdiscourses/videos
        
        However, I also did not want to be walking down the garden path again either, so I’ve been trying to read or listen to more neutral sources on various philosophers – an excellent series on them can be found online: “From Socrates to Sartre (1979)”.
        
        Then there are the works from the proverbial horse’s mouths which is to read the Marxist and Neo-Marxist literature directly, especially Herbert Marcuse (especially Repressive Tolerances and One-Dimensional Man). When you make yourself familiar with the Kafka trap then anything by Robin DiAngelo and her compatriots to get a real taste of Leftist poison. For education there are the poisons from Paulo Friere and Henry Giroux (“Critical Pedagogy”) amongst others.
        
        And if you can real stomach it there’s Kimberlie Crenshaw’s Mapping the Margins. There are plenty of others to sample too (Judith Butler, Angela Davis, Gayle Rubin etc). I think I’m forgetting a whole heap of them like Theodore Adorno.
        
        I am slowly being convinced, little by little, that people like Hegel, Marx, Hitler, Mussolini, Gentile, Rosenberg, Adorno, Marcuse etc were gnostics (with a little ‘g’). Even the title of Marcuse’s book “One Dimensional Man” (aside from the contents therein) suggests that these socialists claim to have secret knowledge. With this secret knowledge one can become a “Two Dimensional Man” for example.
        
        As for the cult indoctrination, that is a whole other area to learn. I’ve been fascinated with cults after I was brought up in one (and left). How they work, how they recruit, get people to stay and how they can get people to do basically anything.
        
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        October 23, 2023 12:42pm
      - Colinxy
        
        I should point out the other hint of their gnostic faith is the whole “false conscientious” spiel that everyone has except the faithful of the cult.
        
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        October 23, 2023 1:14pm
      - Matt Long
        
        Great, thanks 🙏
        
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        October 23, 2023 4:30pm
- MCōs
  
  There’s probably nothing Samuel Parnell would recognize about NZ
  Few people ‘work’ an eight hour day anymore.
  
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  October 23, 2023 9:59am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Not in the public sector. 7 hours and 35 minutes per day.
    
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    October 23, 2023 10:42am
    - rockape
      
      Tell that to my wife ,a nurse, or any doctor all who work in the public sector.
      
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      October 23, 2023 11:16am
      - KH
        
        Speaking as a nurse.
        1 – there are a lot of cruisey jobs in health.
        2. vast efficiencies (eg role simplification) could be made to ease off the pressure. But the priority instead is professional status and privileges.
        
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        October 23, 2023 1:32pm
      - peterwn
        
        There were always different classes of public sector employees. Traditionally the ‘core’ public servants consisted of white collar workers, supervisors and managers in the ‘core’ public service which included government departments but excluded Post Office, Railways, teachers, uniformed police and defence staff, mental health nurses and anciliary staff etc. So a sworn Police Officer was not a core public servant where as a warranted MOT Traffic Officer (pre Police merger) was.
        
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        October 23, 2023 1:37pm
    - peterwn
      
      Hard to understand when blue collar public sector workers and their supervisors work 8 hours per day. I thought that shorter working period would have been knocked on the head with Rogernomics. Perhaps while SOE’s spun off from the Public Service eliminated the 7h35m day, the Government and Public Service Commissioner may not have been prepared to take on the core public servants with this one.
      
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      October 23, 2023 1:30pm
  - MCōs
    
    When I first went to Bangkok the office worked a ten hour day; six days a week.
    Guys would sign on and then eat their breakfast, catch up with the EPL, chat with their mates etc
    The hours were reduced from 60 to 40. Deadlines were set to complete work and each project team was given responsibility to get the drawings out the door on time
    Hours went down, but productivity went up.
    
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    October 23, 2023 11:11am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Do you think there are more or less Sheila’s with beards than in his day?
    
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    October 23, 2023 3:13pm
- peterwn
  
  Ordinary working people probably now vote National or ACT.
  
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  October 23, 2023 8:46pm
KH

We have a duty. Good article.
“…….The solution to poverty, at least in part, is an expectation of turning up to work, of paying your own way, of taking responsibility for those nearest to you, of grasping opportunities that do come your way, of turning up to school……”
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/caleb-anderson-root-cause-of-poverty
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October 23, 2023 8:12am
- krazykiwi
  
  In short: personal agency, with a dollop of accepting that no one owes you comfort and easy.
  
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  October 23, 2023 12:16pm
Bridgenag

Commit strip from America

Sunday Strip: Homeward Bound
Life in the travel lane

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/sunday-strip-homeward-bound?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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October 23, 2023 8:15am
Flossie

Just read a piece in NZ Herald about Michael Wood losing his seat. Not one concession among many direct quotes that Labour, far less himself, bears any responsibility for this huge swing.
I’ll go back and re-read to see if I can figure out what he puts it down to.
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October 23, 2023 8:17am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Thanks for doing the heavy lifting for the rest of us, Flossie
  
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  October 23, 2023 8:27am
  - Biscuit
    
    Flossie, if that NZ Herald piece allows Comments (and I’ll bet it doesn’t!) tell Mr Wood that his personal credibility hit rock bottom for me when he couldn’t work out, or find enough time to, sell a few rogue shares.
    
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    October 23, 2023 8:40am
    - kevn
      
      Biscuit… His ‘river of filth’ moment was it for me. That was ages ago.
      
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      October 23, 2023 8:46am
      - Biscuit
        
        Ah, I’d forgotten about that.
        
        Politicians can be real dummies with their putdowns – Wood’s comment was right up/down there with Hillary Clinton’s ‘basket of deplorables’.
        
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        October 23, 2023 9:26am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Not sure his pathetic river of filth Monet lost him his seat, it eould have contributed, but I suggest the 107 day lock down for one case of pox and the arrogance of Hipkins and police ministers to continually slap away dairy raids and ram raids the death I think was in that electorate, the arrogance of Ardern to be absent from her electorate during covid, snd he refusal to visit the electorate when that guy died.
        
        If you look where they are hammered, take H Bay for instance, the arrogance of the vulgar Hipkins to say the people were lying about gangs looting houses, that stupidity is what sticks in the craw of people’s minds, Hipkins will never ever be elected because of that attitude, they are talking Parker, and man he is hated everywhere, bring it on
        
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        October 23, 2023 12:17pm
  - Flossie
    
    No problem Bollocks…somebody has to keep an eye on them!
    
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    October 23, 2023 8:47am
- krazykiwi
  
  Seeing Wood dispatched was deliciousness in overdrive. His “Rivers of Filth™” statement established this odious scrap of excrement as one of the most objectionable people to occupy a seat.
  
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  October 23, 2023 10:07am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Not sure they would ever have the little creep back, and he was supposed to be their next leader, bwhahahahaha
    
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    October 23, 2023 12:22pm
Im Right

Question: If you were leader of a political party that suffered the biggest swing against you in, well…forever and kicked you out of power, would you not resign/stand down there and then when the result known?
My own moral compass, and I guess character, I would have announced it on the night.
I was expecting, after the caucus meeting, an interim leader installed until such time as the party formally goes through the selection process.
Looks like Mr Christopher Hipkins has little or no shame, should have told his caucus (after they told him they have full support in him) to piss off and find someone else!
Guess that’s just me eh….
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October 23, 2023 8:24am
- Tricati
  
  Hipkins has no shame – Just look at his behavior over the Barnaby Joyce, Charlotte Bellis and the 2 women accused of breaking lock-down rules, but didn’t, saga’s.
  He is also unemployable, given his CV just has Student activist & failed politician as experience.
  
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  October 23, 2023 8:37am
- Colinxy
  
  I figured that when Ardern ran away, Hipkins agreed to the position on the condition that he remain in place after the loss. That he hasn’t resigned is indicative that such an agreement was made.
  
  There was also no contest for the position. Hipkins was anointed…
  
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  October 23, 2023 8:39am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    So Ardern is still in control, C/- Helen Clark?
    
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    October 23, 2023 9:55am
- CJames
  
  The other way of looking at it is no one is competent to take the job (Special K or Carmel, anyone ??), and no-one wants to challenge in case they succeed. Better to wait a year or so, practice nine years of neglect routines, then mount a coup if Labour looks like it is improving. That may well happen if the potential government displays ineptness, exploited by a hostile media.
  Of more interest is James going to get rolled, removing last vestiges of environmental policies from the Greens,
  
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  October 23, 2023 8:42am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    BMW Jimmy will get rolled by none other than cannabis Chloe. Winning Auckland Central has gone to her head.
    Then the crazy Marama will be demoted to Deputy Leader.
    
    23 3
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    October 23, 2023 9:57am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Not so sure I agree with this. For starters, Chippy is still PM. Probably better not to create an immediate vacancy. And, a few strategic Specials & a large enough bribe for Voldemort, and Chippy may yet continue in the role.
  
  Secondly, whatever one’s dislike for Chippy, Labour’s catastrophic performance was not altogether down to Chippy personally. Who among the last Labour caucus would likely have done better?
  
  Following on from the last point, who in Labour’s reduced caucus is likely to do materially better going forward?
  
  One of Labour’s (many) problems is that Helen Clark resigned on 2008 Election night, with no replacement lined up. It threw their leadership into years of turmoil. Compare and contrast with John Key.
  
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  October 23, 2023 8:51am
  - Im Right
    
    I agree NMTB, it was not all Chippies fault, BUT even although the polls were sliding when St Jacinda left, they continued to fall under Hipkins, they never rose to the level when Ardern left the roll.
    To be honest if St Jacinda had stayed leader I honestly believe Labour would have been under 20% at election.
    She knew this and left, all this ‘nothing left in the tank’ nonsense was a smokescreen, I see she is walking it back, fearful that any potential employer sees her as someone who runs away when it’s not all rainbows and unicorns, so she has twice, in interviews, said she had plenty in the tank but felt the ‘time was right’ to step down.
    
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    October 23, 2023 9:13am
    - Swifty
      
      She was booted – by those around her who knew Labour would never win another election with her at the helm and who fancied their chances with a fresher face and allowing the appointment of that new face to create distance between a ‘new’ Labour and the Ardern version.
      
      That’s my honest view.
      
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      October 23, 2023 2:09pm
    - Observer of Life
      
      I still think Ardern was pushed because they could see she was poison to the brand. She would’ve been clueless as to how much she was despised. She lived (lives) in Lala Land. The saying “Cloth-eared bint” springs to mind.
      
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      October 23, 2023 3:20pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    When lefties get cornered they get nasty. Helen Clark and Michael Cullen had to have one last nasty dig at NZ – and Labour by resigning. And by resigning they could not answer questions about the loss. Finished, gone, unavailable.
    
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    October 23, 2023 10:02am
- Ghost
  
  Compare this election with 2017. 2020 was a freak of nature caused by people being scared. Its an election we should never compare with others.
  
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  October 23, 2023 8:53am
  - I remember when
    
    “2020 was a freak of nature caused by people being scared.”
    And wall to wall Jacinda, with little room for the opposition to mount credible arguments.
    High female engagement and support, especially in the media.
    
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    October 23, 2023 11:05am
- Stephen Russell
  
  Do you think they have someone better?
  
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  October 23, 2023 9:05am
  - Im Right
    
    No…we all know that, no one currently in the caucus would be better, I was refering to character….and saying I would have stood down as leader. I’m not a quitter I’m a realist, and if I saw that the voting public rejected not only me but my party in historic numbers, I would tell the caucus you have 3 years to build a better leader, why would I wait a while to be rolled/back stabbed?
    
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    October 23, 2023 9:17am
- Jethrod
  
  ….. and Brutus is an honorable man….
  
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  October 23, 2023 9:34am
  - Lance
    
    And ‘et tu’ is a union isn’t it?
    
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    October 23, 2023 5:27pm
- MCōs
  
  The 2020 election result was an aberration brought on in part by the appalling state of the National Party at the time
  As I recall not long before Mr Bridges was doing quite well in the polls until he went off the rails and was replaced by the hapless Mr Muller
  Labour made the mistake of trying to actually believing they were as popular as the election results
  
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  October 23, 2023 10:12am
  - Matt Long
    
    Except Bridges didn’t go off the rails, the msm covid cult got on top of him for a period and the caucas blinked.
    
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    October 23, 2023 11:11am
    - MCōs
      
      Well
      Lost the plot then.
      
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      October 23, 2023 11:13am
    - Paulus
      
      And the so called media got stuck into his home and family life.
      As a neighbour at the time they were here I know.
      
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      October 23, 2023 1:13pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Hipkins still does not believe he was booted, his petty arrogance of not Turing up to parliament the first day to at least be present as the poor sods were packing up their shit says all you need to know about the asshole
  
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  October 23, 2023 12:24pm
Bridgenag

The vaccines are adulterated.

The FDA is required by law to take them off the market. And you can now sue the manufacturers.
I’ve talked to multiple sources on this. Professor Byram Bridle first mentioned this to me, then Robert Malone, then attorney Warner Mendenhall. This is big.

This tweet has over 1M views in just 6 hours.

https://open.substack.com/pub/stevekirsch/p/the-vaccines-are-adulterated-the?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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October 23, 2023 8:28am
- mawm
  
  What I find more disconcerting is that the re-analysis of Pfizers trial data shows non random patterns in their data set. The conclusion drawn by Professor Fenton is that The observed patterns cannot be the result of random occurrence. The only explanation compatible with all the non-random patterns is that the records of vaccine recipients suffering adverse events and death may have been changed, moving them to the placebo arm after the event. (Bold mine)
  
  https://wherearethenumbers.substack.com/p/anomalous-patterns-of-mortality-and
  
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  October 23, 2023 9:00am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Mawm,
    
    I think they removed people from the trials who weren’t providing “acceptable” data.
    This would account for the non random data.
    Bastards .
    
    18 2
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    October 23, 2023 9:20am
    - mawm
      
      I’m sure they employed multiple tricks to get the results they wanted.
      
      They also needed to keep their participant numbers up so there would have been movement in the opposite direction as well.
      
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      October 23, 2023 12:39pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    I have a laundry list of fraudulent techniques that Pfizer has deployed throughout this global assault on human welfare. Unblinding is one of these.
    
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    October 23, 2023 10:13am
    - mawm
      
      To quote alwaysright – Bastards. They need to swing.
      
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      October 23, 2023 12:41pm
      - Bridgenag
        
        JUST IN
        
        Exclusive: Video interview with 3 experts reveals evidence that the drug companies knew about the SV40 promoter, yet decided to conceal it from the regulators
        It’s OK with the regulators when they are deceived like this. They will do nothing just like Health Canada did when they found out they were deceived. The FDA and CDC are not even warning the public.
        
        If the data shows irreparable harm from these vaccines, then it’s all over. The house of cards comes tumbling down. Trust in the regulators, the pharma companies, Congress, the mainstream media, and the mainstream medical community will evaporate.
        
        https://open.substack.com/pub/stevekirsch/p/exclusive-video-interview-with-3?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
        
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        October 23, 2023 4:43pm
    - Colinxy
      
      They also had a history of fraud: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history
      
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      October 23, 2023 5:01pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        True, but the harm caused by past malfeasance pale in comparison to that of the experimental genetic injectables. I believe there is an odds on possibility of Pfizer being fraudulently ‘managed’ to insolvency thereby ensuring class actions are left with nothing to claim.
        
        5 1
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        October 23, 2023 5:46pm
- kevn
  
  Bridge… Those two should be handing their gongs back and apologising to NZ.
  
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  October 23, 2023 9:02am
hullkiwi

In his comments to Newshub Nation, Peter Dunne’s comments are correct. It is a joke that it takes NZ 3 weeks to declare/confirm election results. This is we are told because the system want to give everyone the right to vote. This is rubbish.

The truth is because the politicians and bureaucrats do not want to invest in systems and people that can give New Zealand a result on the day. How is it that the UK can have an election on a Thursday with upto 40million voters and a new PM can be summoned by the monarch to Buckingham Palace on Friday to be sworn in as PM?

The NZ election system is a joke, and could be solved easily. Why do New Zealanders, the politicians and the bureaucrats lack the will to fix one of the most important of systems at the heart of its democracy?
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October 23, 2023 8:33am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  The UK has FPP.
  
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  October 23, 2023 8:53am
- Ghost
  
  No thanks, I’d rather wait the three weeks while every vote is scrutinised
  
  Article
  
  The official counting of votes involves a process that is called “scrutinising the roll”. This involves comparing every copy of the electorate roll in each electorate to identify voters who may have voted more than once.
  
  If someone is found to have voted more than once, their voting papers are not included in the final count.
  
  During the official count of votes, every single voting paper cast on voting day is rechecked and recounted.
  
  Once the count is complete for each voting place, the totals are recorded on a certificate of results which is signed by the returning officer and a Justice of the Peace.
  
  When the official count is final, the Chief Electoral Officer declares the official election results.
  
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  October 23, 2023 8:56am
  - Stephen Russell
    
    That is all right at proper. But we still have the election night count of 80% of the votes. How about we count the other 20% then too?
    The final scrutinised result for all those votes might still take three weeks, but you would only get very tiny changes from the election night count – which are unlikely to matter.
    
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    October 23, 2023 9:08am
    - Ghost
      
      Because of the extra work of validating the votes. Those special votes that are out of their district have to be sent back to the correct electorate to be counted in. Overseas postal votes have to post marked by election day and received within 10 days after the election.
      
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      October 23, 2023 9:16am
      - Taieri
        
        Those special votes that are out of their district have to be sent back to the correct electorate to be counted in.
        ————
        
        Why can’t they be counted where they are cast?
        
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        October 23, 2023 9:45am
      - hullkiwi
        
        Ghost, this 2023, not 1963. Historically, voting overseas has been at NZ embassies or consular offices. These facilities tend to be in cities where the votes can be back in NZ within 24 hours if required. Remembering that the Ambassador, High Commissioner or Consular General is actually the Electoral Official for that polling place and could in fact count the votes if they were required to do so.
        
        Excuses for a backward system are just that excuses.
        
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        October 23, 2023 10:23am
      - Ghost
        
        It may be 2023 but overseas voters still have the ability to download their voting papers and post them in.
        
        9 0
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        October 23, 2023 10:38am
      - rouppe
        
        All what you say is, I’m sure, correct.
        
        But it comes back to the system of voting, which is essentially the same as it was in 1900. Note I’m not talking about the mmp vs fpp argument here.
        
        What if an option were provided for a verified RealMe identity to vote online. Those votes are counted instantly at 7pm. Those identities are instantly marked on the roll as voted.
        
        When paper votes are checked against the roll, any paper vote for the same identity is discarded, and their name is noted for a follow up visit by officials as to why.
        
        What you are likely to find is that most out of electorate and overseas voters will use that method. This would rapidly increase the speed of counting as the numbers using paper votes diminishes so there’s less manual work to do.
        
        In addition to this I would close the roll to registrations 30 days before election day. Because part of the problem is those that register and vote on the same day incurs extra checking (I hope).
        Can’t be bothered to register in time, tough shit. For those that turn 18 in those 30 days, tough shit. For those who move electorate in that time, vote in your old electorate, who cares. There’s no real difference between that and moving 2 weeks after the election. (Ps why does my auto correct always end up will ejection lol).
        
        Anyway, there must be system improvements that can be made
        
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        October 23, 2023 10:25am
      - Ghost
        
        Ask, I think it was NZer In Exile that wrote about the problems with realme this election.
        
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        October 23, 2023 10:36am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Overseas Postal Votes can be done online. 2017 we did ours from Chena Hot Springs Resort way up by Fairbanks, Alaska. From memory a page was downloaded and printed. Choose your ticks, photograph is and send it back as a JPEG.
        This was all by weak Satellite link.
        
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        October 23, 2023 10:51am
      - Jack5
        
        Some of the risks in electronic voting:
        
        https://www.comparitech.com/blog/information-security/electronic-voting-risks/
        
        9 1
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        October 23, 2023 10:57am
      - rouppe
        
        Ghost, most of the concerns around I-voting centre on the third party technology.
        
        RealMe is government owned. Getting a verified identify it different than just a realme login. It also involves DIA (I know since it took them a month to renew my certified identity recently).
        
        I’m sure there are problems. However perfect is the enemy of good, and I dare say the current process has problems too.
        
        So refusing to look at it at all is pretty poor IMHO.
        
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        October 23, 2023 12:17pm
      - Dave
        
        Rouppe @ 10.25: “ For those that turn 18 in those 30 days, tough shit.”
        
        Since birthdays and the electoral roll printing date are known in advance, why not let those who will turn 18 between the electoral roll printing date and election date enrol early?
        
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        October 23, 2023 2:32pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    Ghost, I know what the process is, and it is positively backward.
    
    When we vote, you may have noted that the electoral officer puts a line through your name on the electoral register. Because there is advanced voting, and there are multiple policing booths that you can vote at, each page from each polling place is taken and optically scanned to search for instances of multiple voting.
    
    In 2020, this process identified 14 possible cases of duplicate voting out of 2.9million votes.
    
    In the UK, they have FPP, in Germany they have MMP (the NZ system is based on Germany). In Germany it is the post election negotiation that delays the process, not the voting.
    
    In Europe, you vote at your nominated election place, unless you will be outside your electorate, and you can do an advanced special vote.
    
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    October 23, 2023 9:15am
    - MCōs
      
      Forty eight people were referred to the police after the 2020 election for voting twice
      I would suggest that because the system of counting is so pedantic few people take it on; unlike the Bird of the Year vote which is riddled with corruption so that someone’s favourite fat flightless fuck takes the big prize.
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/election-2020-48-voters-referred-to-police-for-voting-twice/NZ73GDIAHJDWZLGQEBDHFJM7LY/
      
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      October 23, 2023 10:47am
      - rockape
        
        Or even a bat!
        
        13 0
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        October 23, 2023 11:20am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  On the other hand, Belgium has gone without a government for more than a year on more than one occasion, & life seems to go on alright.
  
  https://www.brusselstimes.com/124777/belgium-breaks-own-record-for-longest-period-without-government
  
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  October 23, 2023 9:19am
  - MCōs
    
    Winston’s wet dream
    
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    October 23, 2023 11:14am
  - mawm
    
    NeverMind – It’s almost as if they achieved Utopia, along with a Speaker-less US Congress.
    
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    October 23, 2023 12:46pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Answer, MMP, note the Brits said no
  
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  October 23, 2023 12:27pm
- NothingLeft
  
  3 year term minus 6 weeks for electioneering, another month to count votes, another month for Winston to commune with his anus on what govt he will bestow upon NZ and the shape and colour of the baubles he will demand as koha, and then xmas holidays to cut another month off effective term of governance.
  
  Leaving not much more than 2.5 years to try and fix the country before next election.
  
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  October 23, 2023 1:08pm
- Drone
  
  How about they don’t believe in democracy..
  
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  October 23, 2023 5:45pm
surfing

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/tauranga-city-council-commissions-generous-remuneration-plus-expenses-for-202223/AGU3QT7GHVHDTCB2FNOY4RPMK4/

The appointed council are voracious for ratepayers money. One of them chooses to live at Lake Hood , Canterbury, and guess who picks up the travel tab? Tauranga ratepayers no surprise.

If someone works in tauranga, decides to move to Lake Hood, Canterbury…. they should resign and get a job at or near Lake Hood! But, the Tauranga ratepayers are so ‘generous’ (in their words), they prefer to feed from the trough!
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October 23, 2023 8:46am
Dudley Quaffquaff

Overtaken with twelve balls and four wickets to spare – the Black Caps get closer than anybody else to India, and for my money that’s likely to be the way the tournament will stay
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October 23, 2023 8:47am
- greybeard
  
  We still have Australia, South Africa, Pakistan and Sri Lanka to go: in all probability we will lose all four.
  
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  October 23, 2023 10:26am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Unlikely. Pakistan and Sri Lanka are very beatable, and we have a good World Cup record against South Africa. If we can knock Warner over quickly, even Australia is very beatable.
    
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    October 23, 2023 10:52am
    - mawm
      
      SA are unable to play “donkey drops” on a soggy wicket.
      
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      October 23, 2023 12:49pm
Master Mariner

Supply Chains,
Good to see it getting some Media Traction.
https://www.interest.co.nz/economy/124828/our-latest-interest-podcast-episode-dave-christie-explains-challenges-nzs-supply

However a very NZ centric Podcast looking out. The real issue is the World is now not a Globalised Supply Chain. Until this is acknowledged we will continue to head into the wrong direction.

And the NZ solution,
https://www.interest.co.nz/sites/default/files/2023-10/MOT_Aotearoa-Freight-and-Supply-Chain-Strategy.pdf
How can you write a 62 page “Strategy” that says absolutely nothing astounds me.
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October 23, 2023 8:49am
- Taieri
  
  But there’re some very nice pictures there. I like the one with the cargo pushbike the best. Just close your eyes and imagine all those cargo bikes pushing along the SH1. Wow!…
  
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  October 23, 2023 9:07am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Yep, However a great example of supply chains and prices due too unavailability and rising costs.
    
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/24350279/drivers-pay-more-insure-evs/
    
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    October 23, 2023 9:25am
    - Taieri
      
      What I see in the Manata-whatever report is a lot of wishful thinking(?) and plenty of empty slogans. Including all those references to the technology which doesn’t exist.
      Preceded of course by a suitable (and obligatory nowadays) Maori proverb.
      
      A waste of time. But not a waste of money. For the authors of this report that is…
      
      15 0
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      October 23, 2023 10:12am
  - rockape
    
    The future of Nz transport by the Greens. https://mymodernmet.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/archive/JY7qXPXgq4B7EQK7nlrZ_1082053017.jpeg
    
    10 0
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    October 23, 2023 11:23am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  wow, what a heap of very expensive rubbish. So we will “partner” with the sector and Maori to “decarbonise”.
  
  Whatever those things mean.
  
  4 0
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  October 23, 2023 4:51pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Man bites dog story.

A progressive would see this as evidence of positive discrimination.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby-world-cup-2023/300994435/rugby-world-cup-englands-tom-curry-accuses-south-africas-bongi-mbonambi-of-racial-slur
18 1
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October 23, 2023 9:05am
- lifesgood
  
  But, but, but, white man can never be discriminated against, only black people. //
  
  23 1
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  October 23, 2023 9:41am
- Jack5
  
  Don’t know about the “black” bit, but Marama Davidson would sort Bongi M. out on the rest of the description.
  
  Davidson made world headlines when she “reclaimed” the c-word five years ago. Here’s how the “Washington Post” reported her, and you should be able to read this free as a one-off before the newspaper’s paywall blocks you.
  
  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2018/08/09/call-me-that-new-zealand-politician-launches-campaign-reclaim-c-word/
  
  19 0
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  October 23, 2023 9:47am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    They want a valid email address. That is why I have an address I don’t use except for cases like this. If I get spammed, I blacklist them.
    
    8 1
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    October 23, 2023 11:07am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Well she’s certainly “reclaimed” it.
    
    Jokes aside it shows just how dominated the likes of Marama Davidson are by the very US imperialism they’re always attacking.
    
    Far back in the early 1980’s there was semi-famous movie called An Officer and A Gentlemen, and there’s a scene near the end of the movie where the “Gentlemen” in question calls a conniving woman a C8nt. Me and all my mates were not shocked so much as bemused. Why did her call her that?
    
    It took a while and a bit of research to discover that in US Culture it was a term of abuse for females – as opposed to our English usage of it being a term of abuse only for men – and sometimes not even abuse (“He’s actually a good c8nt”).
    
    But no, Marama goes with the American-oriented feminist ideology and claims to be fighting the power.
    
    13 1
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    October 23, 2023 11:21am
- rouppe
  
  Unfortunately for him the actual slur was not caught on audio so can never be proven
  
  8 0
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  October 23, 2023 10:29am
  - lifesgood
    
    It was, I heard it on the news.
    
    8 1
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    October 23, 2023 10:46am
    - rouppe
      
      The audio of Curry complaining was caught, but not the original comment. I’ve not been able to find it anyway.
      
      Everything is “alleged slur”.
      
      7 0
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      October 23, 2023 12:20pm
    - Nickc2
      
      I heard it too!
      However, it’s different when a Black Man says it to a White Man eh?
      In ya fuckin dreams Sunshine! Racial slurs, torment, and innuendos are the same whoever they come from.
      
      5 1
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      October 23, 2023 3:09pm
  - MCōs
    
    Doesn’t matter
    Tom Curry is a whitey, and British, so it must be true.
    
    2 9
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    October 23, 2023 10:52am
NeverMindTheBollocks

“Bryce Davies, executive manager of corporate relations for IAG in New Zealand recently said areas such as Petone would be under water by the middle of this century”.

Really? Petone to be drowned in just 27 short years? I call bullshit on that.

It would be sad for all those progressive types who have made Petone, the Newtown of the Hutt Valley, their home, though.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/300990789/petone-will-be-underwater-heres-what-you-need-to-know-if-your-home-is-a-flood-risk
36 0
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October 23, 2023 9:09am
- Master Mariner
  
  Remember Insurers have been given a “Golden Handshake” by Government Fear campaign on Sea Level Rise.
  Councils reporting ( Mis) on Sea Level rise.
  
  24 0
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  October 23, 2023 9:29am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Goodness…. just like in 1840 when Petoneites decamped to Wellington.
  
  Wellington’s first settlers arrived at Petone in January 1840, intending to farm the broad Hutt Valley. Less than two months after they arrived, the Hutt River overflowed, inundating their huts and tents. After several more floods during the next few months, most of the settlers abandoned the Hutt Valley and moved to Thorndon, now part of central Wellington.
  
  https://teara.govt.nz/en/floods/page-2
  
  28 0
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  October 23, 2023 9:42am
  - Taieri
    
    Sheesh…that was pre-industrial and as such doesn’t count.
    
    20 0
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    October 23, 2023 9:47am
  - Jack5
    
    Trivia for Labour Day …
    
    Presumably the Petone settlers Maggy Wassilieff refers to in her 9.42 post included London-born Samuel Parnell, who arrived in Wellington in 1840 after an 114-day voyage from Britain.
    
    Parnell, a carpenter and joiner, built a house for his family, then on his first contract, to build a store, he built into the agreement that work would be no more than eight hours a day.
    
    That’s said to be the origin of the NZ tradition of an eight-hour day for those on wages.
    
    17 0
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    October 23, 2023 10:01am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      OMG!
      
      Are we honouring a Land-owning cis-white male colonial settler today?
      
      https://teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/1p7/parnell-samuel-duncan
      
      Something doesn’t seem kapai.
      
      16 0
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      October 23, 2023 12:40pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Stuff described him as an immigrant. Lol!
        
        1 0
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        October 23, 2023 6:13pm
- Cinematic
  
  So, has mankind not discovered walls yet?
  
  14 0
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  October 23, 2023 10:06am
- Matt Long
  
  If it takes global warming myths to stop people building on flood plains and liquidation zones, it’s still a good thing.
  Having my insurance premiums double to pay for people who can’t work out that a floodplain is an area that floods doesn’t impress me.
  
  21 0
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  October 23, 2023 11:23am
oldpark

After the Massacre on NZs by Ardern/Hipkins and their also rans CTU and Commie Greens on NZs hard won lifestyle and Democracy . Now that hopefully most of the mentioned have been given DCMs the next question has to be .
Will the new Democratically Elected Government
Make NZ a “Proud Nation Once Again” .
26 2
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October 23, 2023 9:17am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Make NZ a “Proud Nation Once Again”?
  Let’s hope so – remembering the damage done runs very deep. Many things need Law changes, all of those ‘Captain’s calls.’ How could that happen with no select committees and no votes in the House? Only a Dictator does this.
  
  20 1
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  October 23, 2023 11:18am
NeverMindTheBollocks

There is a general assumption that, post specials, National and ACT will continue to command a majority. That’s by no means guaranteed, and with a large enough bauble, the old charlatan may yet revert.

Christopher Luxon would do well to shore up his flanks (both ACT & NZF), with reasonable policy concessions to both, before the final tally is announced. That would make it that much harder for Winston to flip.
26 1
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October 23, 2023 9:26am
- greybeard
  
  I am sure that National, and in particular Mr. Luxon, are well aware of possible events and are taking all possible advice and precautions. He doesn’t seem the type to spend the last 3 years in politics only to dither around at the last minute.
  
  28 0
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  October 23, 2023 10:30am
  - kevn
    
    grey… I gather the Nats have spent the last year (and more) planning how to manage everything when they won the election. MP’s have been told just stat holidays over Xmas/NY and back to work, there is lots to be done.
    
    21 0
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    October 23, 2023 11:00am
    - peterwn
      
      Helen Clark and Co criticised National MP’s for taking a full Christmas break after the 2008 election instead of getting back to work immediately.
      Perhaps Departmental CEO’s and their senior managers and policy advisers also need to read the tea leaves and that Statutory Holidays only so they are available to their Ministers.
      
      12 0
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      October 23, 2023 1:44pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        And the Departmental days, Peter.
        
        Another hangover from years gone by, for at least some Ministries, the non stat days between Christmas and New Year do not count as leave. This is because, with the Ministry closed, staff do not have the option of coming to work. As if.
        
        Thus, most head office Govt workers above clerical level have 28 days of leave, being five weeks plus three Departmental days.
        
        2 0
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        October 23, 2023 6:12pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I do hope NZF and Winston are not needed. Why? Because if he is needed then he (Winston) gets some sort of control.
  Remember, needing NZF to form a Govt does not stop there. Anything in the new Govt will have a NZF ‘tinge.’
  Once again Winston will pull the strings – or else! See where this could go??
  
  4 1
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  October 23, 2023 5:01pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Just another Saturday afternoon in Ōpōtiki:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/shooting-in-opotiki-woman-seriously-injured-after-being-shot-at-in-car/7NSC3PRPJVHPVET5WG5PV5LGJA/

But don’t mention the gangs…..
31 0
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October 23, 2023 10:07am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Isolated incident
  
  19 0
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  October 23, 2023 10:34am
  - nathie
    
    But they were good boys. Colonialism made them do it.
    
    17 0
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    October 23, 2023 12:01pm
- surfing
  
  I know quite a number of really nice people from Opotiki. People with jobs and kids and aspirations just trying to make a living.
  
  The place is disadvantaged for sure. They have more than their fair share of crims and gang members and drug abuse underpins the whole criminality of the area.
  
  Don’t think things will ever change, sadly for the good people in Opotiki .
  
  13 0
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  October 23, 2023 2:00pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

David Seymour:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVEv8SRrhI8

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/why-are-maori-so-worried-about-act-and-david-seymours-principles-of-the-treaty-being-defined/?
18 1
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October 23, 2023 10:13am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  45 years of lies and deception. The word “racist” is now used to shut down any form of debate. A debate that Maori do not want to have because it will shut down the Gravy Train.
  Let’s do this!
  
  33 1
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  October 23, 2023 10:17am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  On the website is also a complaint about Hoyts Cinemas showing a racist message in their theatres. Who is going to ask the Govt and Hoyts about how much is the Taxpayer paying for this racism?
  Not the Taxpayer? Prove it.
  
  Also Hoyts is being spelt ‘Hoytes.’ There will be a reason for that.
  
  16 2
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  October 23, 2023 10:27am
lifesgood

Un-Be-Live-Able! We have had constant rain since late last year and yet the morons at Watercare came out today and said that if you are gardening this weekend please conserve water. What the hell? It is raining outside as I write.
22 0
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October 23, 2023 11:19am
- Ghost
  
  Looks like Auckland is all set for a dry summer, if the rain ever stops up there….
  
  https://aucklandwatersupply.co.nz/
  
  18 0
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  October 23, 2023 11:42am
  - Hollyfield
    
    I’ve not looked at any forecasts or read any articles on this matter, but I expect a dry summer either this year or next, simply because we’ve had a lot of rain since January. Just like a few winters ago it was very dry, and we had to conserve water all through winter when the dams should have been full. Mother Nature balances out over time, despite all of man’s attempts at egocentrism.
    
    13 0
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    October 23, 2023 11:59am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Well so much rain Watercare should shut down a few dams for maintenance.//
  They have done this before
  
  5 1
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  October 23, 2023 5:06pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Get ready, climate change alarmists; we have a runner.
Gates is sounding the alarm about sounding the alarm on a climate change “emergency.”

https://teapartypolls.com/rightsandfreedomnews/bill-gates-backs-down-on-climate-change-emergency-and-1600-scientists-join-him/?
14 1
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October 23, 2023 11:43am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Follow the money….
  
  18 0
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  October 23, 2023 12:42pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

AOC Serious Policy Statement.
She wants to “protecting the rights and lives of innocent Palestinians who are non-combatants.” Non-combatants? A Palestinian (death to Jews and Israel) is non-combatant my left tit.

Then she farts in the middle of it.

https://redbloodedconservative.com/2023/10/19/aoc-puts-together-her-first-serious-policy-statement-and-then-farts-in-the-middle-of-it/
10 1
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October 23, 2023 12:18pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Biden Campaign Joins Trump’s Truth Social.

‘George’ replied to their first post – “The 2020 Election was rigged and Trump won.”

https://redbloodedconservative.com/2023/10/20/biden-campaign-joins-trumps-truth-social-in-hopes-of-converting-you/
8 1
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October 23, 2023 12:23pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Food delivery Robots are watching you.

Some people are attacking them!

https://wiredconservative.com/thepoliticalmovement/food-delivery-robots-are-now-spying-on-everything-they-see-for-big-brother/?
9 2
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October 23, 2023 12:27pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

2 of a kind.
Check engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwWcLwo9Zz0
7 2
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October 23, 2023 12:35pm
bco90

This looks to be at Auckland Uni. An Arab Israeli simply asks basic questions about the claim of “apartheid” at a pro-Palestine table.

https://x.com/YosephHaddad/status/1715821604750479560?s=20
14 0
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October 23, 2023 1:16pm
- emmess
  
  ‘Err, I am not super-knowledgable about that’ should be the slogan of the pro-terrorist Marxist left.
  
  13 0
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  October 23, 2023 2:23pm
Swifty

Diversity is our strength!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12659705/man-chanting-hamas-slogan-arrested-metropolitan-police.html

Yep, the less we have in common the more united we are, apparently.
10 0
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October 23, 2023 1:53pm
- Inandout
  
  Swifty, I see a lot of Arabs in that demo.
  
  10 0
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  October 23, 2023 2:30pm
  - Swifty
    
    And South-Asians.
    
    5 0
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    October 23, 2023 4:35pm
Chuck Bird

I just came across this link to 42 videos of interest to NZ politics.

The Redbaiter

https://www.youtube.com/@theredbaiter/videos
8 3
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October 23, 2023 2:48pm
Ghost

Weird blog hiccup, it started refusing my password and I had to reset it.
5 1
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October 23, 2023 3:14pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  So did you have to answer the 2 + 9 question and then log in again Ghost?
  Yes it pisses me off as well. I have used the same password since day dot, when I first discovered Kiwiblog.
  It is a wordpress thing I guess.
  
  7 1
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  October 23, 2023 5:14pm
  - Ghost
    
    I always error out on the equation, never accepts the answer
    
    0 0
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    October 23, 2023 9:43pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      What was your answer?
      
      0 0
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      October 24, 2023 7:22am
Nickc2

Courtesy Anon

Dear New Zealand Laborites, leftists, social progressives, socialists, Bolger, Marxists and Palmer, Mahuta, Ardern et al:

We have stuck together since the late 1950’s for the sake of the kids, but the whole of that latest election process has made me realize that I want a divorce. I know we tolerated each other for many years for the sake of future generations, but sadly, this relationship has clearly run its course.

Our two ideological sides of New Zealand cannot and will not ever agree on what is right for us all, so let’s just end it on friendly terms. We can smile and chalk it up to irreconcilable differences and go our own way

Here is a model separation agreement:
Our two groups can equitably divide up the country by landmass each taking a similar portion. That will be the difficult part, but I am sure our two sides can come to a friendly agreement. After that, it should be relatively easy! Our respective representatives can effortlessly divide other assets since both sides have such distinct and disparate tastes.

We don’t like redistributive taxes so you can keep them. You are welcome to the NZCTU, the Fabian Society and every member of Jacinda’s List. Since you hate guns and war, we’ll take our firearms, the cops and the military. We’ll take the nasty, smelly oil industry and you can go with wind, solar and biodiesel. You can keep the media left wingers and Hone Harawira. You are, however, responsible for finding an electric vehicle big enough to move all of them.

We’ll keep capitalism, greedy corporations, pharmaceutical companies, Foodstuffs and the Stock Exchange. You can have your beloved lifelong welfare dwellers, dole bludgers, homeless, homeboys, hippies, druggies etc. We’ll keep the budgie smuggling, bike riding volunteer firemen and lifesavers, greedy CEOs and rednecks. We’ll keep the Bibles and the churches and give you Maori TV and the Greens.

You can make peace with Iran, Palestine and the Taliban and we’ll retain the right to stand up and fight when threatened. You can have the greenies and war protesters. When our allies or our way of life are under assault, we’ll help provide them security.

We’ll keep our Judeo-Christian values. You are welcome to Islam, Scientology, Humanism, political correctness and Willie Jackson. You can also have the U.N. But we will no longer be paying the bill.

We’ll keep the 4WDs, utes and V8s. You can take every hybrid hatchback you can find.

We’ll keep “A Dog Named Blue” and the non Te Reo, original version of our National Anthem. I’m sure you’ll be happy to keep in tune with Peter Garrett as he sings “Imagine”, “I’d Like to Teach the World to Sing”, “Kum Ba Ya”, “We Are The World” and his recent big solo hit, “Beds and Batts are Burning”.

We’ll practice trickle-down economics and you can continue to give trickle-up poverty your best shot. Since it so often offends you, we’ll keep our history, our name and our flag.

Would you agree to this? If so, please pass it along to other like-minded conservative New Zealanders and if you do not agree, just hit delete. In the spirit of friendly parting, I’ll bet you answer which one of us will need whose help in 15 years.
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October 23, 2023 7:30pm

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