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October 21, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 21 October 2023

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General Debate

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Swifty

Katharine Birbalsingh’s academy school tops the 7,000-odd UK schools Dept of Education performance data once again:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-12653403/How-childs-secondary-school-doing-DofE-publishes-accurate-performance-data-Covid-Britains-strictest-head-reveals-West-London-academy-topped-list.html
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October 21, 2023 8:12am
- peterwn
  
  A head teacher is supposed to be strict (but fair) and being sent to the head’s study was something to be dreaded. Principal at my high school was a dour scotsman who was held in awe. I was sorry when he retired as his successor was wishy-washy and permanently damaged the school’s reputation.
  The pupils at that academy would regard it as a badge of honour that they had a strict head.
  Whether Chris Luxon will follow Simon Bridges to allow Charter Schools to be re-introduced goodness knows. National would need at least four terms in power to sort the education in a way so there would be serious opposition from parents if any attempts were made to undo changes.
  Interestingly Chris Hipkins and co attempted to abolish school Boards of Trustees and centralise control but the parent lobby (most probably including those who voted Labour) was sufficiently powerful to halt this.
  
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  October 21, 2023 11:20am
Benedict Yu

Yesterday Andrew Bridgen MP gave a speech in the House of Commons on excess deaths in the UK.

https://youtu.be/97qRUqYLNu0?si=TdPGwsUcLJmMaZIE

He had tried 20 times to get this debate and finally succeeded.

Incredibly, there were about 15 MPs in the House of Commons to hear him speak.

A junior Health Minister gave a five minute reply, which I found totally incoherent.

He has been preparing for this speech for at least 12 months. He provided data and information packs and sent this pack to every media outlet in the UK.

The speech has not been covered by any mainstream media outlet in the UK.

I have not scrutinised the data. It is complex and I don’t have the time. However it seems to be a compelling story.

Of course he could be wrong. Maybe he has made material methodological errors. However, and this is a critical observation, the UK Government has all the resources of the Office of National Statistics. If this guy is wrong, the government should be able to tear his argument to pieces. Instead MPs from all political parties boycotted his speech. Also, not a single media outlet reported his speech.

To repeat, if he is wrong the Government should be able to demonstrate that he is wrong. However instead we have a tacit conspiracy of silence from MPs and the media.
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October 21, 2023 8:13am
- Philview
  
  I read an article in the week that there is a Covid enquiry happening in the UK at the moment. It has probably been already discussed here that UK scientists referred to Rishi Sunak as Doctor Death. He apparently was trying to get the UK out of lockdown and mounted a campaign to get people back into pubs and restaurants There is a group with a name something like Justice for Covid Victims that claim Rishi Sunak is responsible for the deaths of many thousands. No doubt this group is run by left wing activists.
  
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  October 21, 2023 8:33am
- kevn
  
  BY… Same in NZ. Thank you Guy Hatchard for the sunlight.
  https://preview.mailerlite.com/z8o2l6x5d4/2328770712887629884/c8q5/
  
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  October 21, 2023 8:34am
- ClanMcleod
  
  BY – a conspiracy of silence in NZ also.
  The refusal to debate tells us everything we need to know.
  
  In NZ every politician (barring Peters) has apparently decided it is better to ignore the evidence of jab harms and deaths and excess all cause mortality than it is to investigate why this is happening. Or to investigate why an experimental product was forced onto the population with totally bogus claims of safety and efficacy.
  
  The only conclusion I can come to is because they will all be found complicit in this nightmare to some extent.
  
  Peters may well have spoke out to enable his return to parliament for a final hoorah. We will find out during this term if he actually does anything he said he would. But the fact remains, there is a deliberate conspiracy of silence in NZ that will continue to threaten the very foundation of democracy until it is addressed.
  
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  October 21, 2023 10:26am
  - Waipuk
    
    David Seymour has said he wants a rewrite of the term of reference for the NZ Covid enquiry so between the two of them hopefully something positive will happen.
    
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    October 21, 2023 1:33pm
  - Lee C
    
    https://youtu.be/WdarV8OJb-I
    
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    October 21, 2023 4:25pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      The only politician in NZ speaking out about this travesty.
      
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      October 21, 2023 7:10pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  If you watch that clip, you can hear the cheering from the packed public gallery in the House of Commons. In stark contrast to the almost empty debating chamber.
  
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  October 21, 2023 10:35am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    When it isn’t reported in mainstream media you know the narrative is fully controlled. We think we are ‘free and democratic’. It’s apparently an illusion.
    
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    October 21, 2023 11:49am
- JimBobJoe
  
  “Maybe he has made material methodological errors.”
  
  Andrew Bridgen didn’t do the detail statistical work involved. This guy: Norman Fenton and a few others did. I would back Fenton to crunch the numbers correctly.. Fenton is a Math and Computer guy with a work history in Risk
  
  John Campbell did a short vid with Bridgen abut the speech he was due to make.
  
  The speech and debate was only forced to be held as a petition with over 100, 000 signatures was presented to the UK Parliament.
  
  Bridgen and a few other MPs in Britian have been chasing the excess death issue for quite a while, and every time the speak the bulk of MPs are no where to be seen.
  
  Apparently a few more MPs are taking an interest as there is a grow swell of British voters writing letters to MPs demanding answers about why their loved ones are suffering lingering impacts post vaccine injection and/or why their loved ones died in very close temporal proximity to vaccine injections…
  
  The more pressure Bridgen puts on the better…
  
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  October 21, 2023 7:18pm
Benedict Yu

Apparantly there is a group of United States special forces in Israel providing advice to the IDF on hostage rescue. Joe Biden met with them while he was in Israel.

The White House decided that this would make a good photo op. So they published a photo of the President shaking hands with the soldiers. The photo revealed the faces and distinguishing tattoos of all of the soldiers.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12651089/White-House-apologizes-publishing-photo-showing-faces-Special-Forces-met-Biden-Israel-glaring-national-security-blunder.html

What could possibly go wrong? 😭
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October 21, 2023 8:14am
- Swifty
  
  Gross incompetence by White House staff.
  
  I note that it happened under Trump too – I’d suggest to special forces guys that whenever you’re required to meet the President for a photo-op to wear a balaclava!
  
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  October 21, 2023 8:33am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It is clear by his actions Joe hates America. Quite possible this was an inside job.
  Whoever did the actual publishing needs to be hung out to dry.
  Imagine publishing face photos of our SAS. These are the guys that go into a Country, do the business and when they return to NZ nobody knows what happened. Families told they were on an emergency response training mission.
  I knew one of these guys, and really he should not have even told me.
  
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  October 21, 2023 8:50am
  - David Garrett
    
    Steve O: It is clear by his actions Joe hates America
    
    That is not at all clear to me old boy. What is clear is that Biden is a doddery old man who is almost certainly suffering from Alzheimers or other some other similar condition .
    
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    October 21, 2023 9:11am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I know he is a sick man and is being used. That is how low the Democrats go. If Joe dies (and I hope he doesn’t) what do the Democrats have? Crazy Kamala. Jesus!
      
      I worded that wrong. Biden and his Administration hate America. Look at Afghanistan withdrawal.
      
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      October 21, 2023 9:17am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        It is also nuts to think that Biden can get through a second term.
        
        I watched a clip of him in conversation with Benjamin Netanyahu. I had no damn clue what he was saying.
        
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        October 21, 2023 11:17am
      - Frank Thomas
        
        Steve, Can you please clarify something for me? On the one hand you say Biden is a sick man suffering from dementia, who can’t function cognitively, yet in the same sentence you say he hates America and is craftily manipulating to undermine it. I don’t understand. Which one is it?
        If it is the former, who in his administration is actually running the show then?
        
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        October 21, 2023 12:06pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @ Frank, 12.06.
        “craftily manipulating”
        No, craftily manipulated. That is the difference.
        
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        October 21, 2023 7:14pm
      - Frank Thomas
        
        Thanks for answering Steve, but your response doesn’t actually shed any light on what you are getting at. Can you please tell me the actual person, not some grey faced Dem Party entity who you think, but the actual person you say is controlling Biden? Unless you can I have to assume it to be another MAGA crackpot conspiracy theory. Thanks
        
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        October 22, 2023 1:09am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Frank, Barrak Obama is the one pulling the strings. He wants his wife Mike to run in 2024.
        
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        October 22, 2023 8:28am
  - Frank Thomas
    
    You do realise the NZ Herald published a photo showing the face of SAS corporal Willie Apiata VC whilst he was on duty in Iraq?
    I understand your dislike of Biden and this was an extremely bad look, but I don’t think you can personally blame him for this cock up.
    
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    October 21, 2023 11:11am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I did think that about Willie Apiata at the time.
      I did not know he was still active.
      
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      October 21, 2023 7:17pm
      - Frank Thomas
        
        Yes, I think that’s what the outcry was about at the time. The fact he was still on active duty and the Herald irresponsibly published his photo brought to light that our special forces are NOT celebs. To be fair to the Herald they too were unaware it was him, but still chose an unblurred photo of him which could have compromised his safety.
        
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        October 22, 2023 7:28am
      - Frank Thomas
        
        It reminds me of the Kiwi fighting in Ukraine who was killed recently. He was in the news prior to that as he was videoed finding a fellow soldier who was held captive by Russian forces and was thought to be dead. It was a real propaganda coup for the Ukrainians, but unfortunately he was a marked man after that, as the Russians knew who he was and reportedly put a bounty on him. Sadly a few weeks later he was MIA and then found to have been killed by Russians wanting to collect on it.
        
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        October 22, 2023 7:36am
- Nickc2
  
  Where were his advisers FFS.
  Fuckin Democrats!
  
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  October 21, 2023 8:55am
wsk12345

Did I hear that Tory Whanau and council Have signed a massive contract for works in wellington that will be paid for by council plus the government – and made it so that the incoming government can’t cancel it.

I heard something on HDPA in passing but it seem anything further. Seems like an extremely cynical approach even for the greens. Govt should come out and say that any contractor that signs it can forget doing any further work for the government….
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October 21, 2023 8:14am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Yes it is part of Let’s Get Wellington moving. Removing cars from Lambton Quay and some adjacent streets. Turning streets into footpaths and so on.
  
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  October 21, 2023 9:41am
- artemisia
  
  Not the contractor’s fault. Sounds like the council is going to make their decision PDQ because they totally believe it is the only correct decision. Because reasons. And one of those reasons is democratic elections.
  
  Hope they have a watertight fixed price contract because unlikely more taxpayer funding coming for the project.
  
  Of course WCC has had several ‘learnings’ about cost blowouts and there won’t be any more. Ever.//
  
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  October 21, 2023 10:41am
- thirteenstars
  
  I’d be surprised if the Local Government Act does not have broad requirements for exercising duty of care in financial management and spending, and since National has made it clear they will cancel the project it behooves the Wellington City Council to delay undertaking such a large financial outlay.
  
  They can’t claim ignorance of the situation and indeed it’s becoming pretty obvious they intend to turn a blind eye to the consequences of their actions.
  
  I look forward to the inevitable legal action.
  
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  October 21, 2023 12:03pm
Toes on the nose

Mihingarangi…the whitey…on tv3 saying foreign money bankrolled nationals social media advertising….except um..just released ACT spent 900k on SM ads…next was labour on 500k. Then Nats on 400k…easier to make shit up…
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October 21, 2023 8:16am
- kevn
  
  Toes… I think they all over rate ‘social media’ influence.
  
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  October 21, 2023 9:36am
  - Matt Long
    
    Oh, not Sado Masochism advertising then?
    
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    October 21, 2023 9:42am
  - wsk12345
    
    Yeah do they really think people see an ad and go “ooh I’d forgotten about that party I’ll vote for them”?!
    
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    October 21, 2023 10:12am
  - Littletramp
    
    Nobody won the election – Labour got booted out. It was an obvious outcome for months – ask Ardern.
    
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    October 21, 2023 10:47am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Media are going to be shit till the bitter end
  
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  October 21, 2023 11:03am
- slightlyrighty
  
  It’s this new thing called “Emotional Truth” which means it’s true because I feel it is….
  
  which is bollocks.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTMO2ooMLf8
  
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  October 21, 2023 11:11am
- thirteenstars
  
  Forbes makes my skin crawl. The luvvie exterior and the girly voice flatter to deceive. Behind the thin veil she’s as nasty a political operative as ever there was.
  
  Ditto for Rebecca Wright.
  
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  October 21, 2023 12:06pm
DimChappie

More scare mongering about a Treaty Principles referendum: Former Treaty Negotiations Minister Christopher Finlayson supports a debate about the Treaty principles but he thinks a referendum would be dangerous.

“A referendum on such a potentially contentious topic could get out of control and bring to the surface elements that would shock New Zealanders and appal them.”

https://shorturl.at/coIOY
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October 21, 2023 8:21am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  What ‘elements’ is he talking about and why are they so close to the surface?
  
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  October 21, 2023 9:40am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Finlayson is saying that it is better to suppress public opinion.
    That is dangerous .
    It amazes me how shallow and lazy some of these so called academics can be.
    
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    October 21, 2023 10:16am
  - cmm
    
    This is that old “populism” bogeyman all over again.
    
    Can’t trust the Great Unwashed. They need elitists to steer them in the right direction.
    
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    October 21, 2023 1:25pm
- H. Upmann
  
  Finlayson obviously prefers that the can just be kicked down the road a bit further. Eventually this interpretation of a simple one page treaty is either be resolved or civil war breaks out.
  
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  October 21, 2023 9:41am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  Finlayson joins Shaw & Tamihere promoting the Thugs Veto; no surprises there.
  
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  October 21, 2023 9:41am
  - kowtow
    
    “The people I call “the KKK brigade” are out there. They dream of a world that never was, and never could be. They are the people — and these words aren’t mine but are taken from a former British foreign secretary — that you can call the “sour right”. They don’t really understand tangata whenua. They don’t like change.
    
    There are always going to be people like that, and you have to be reasonably charitable towards them for a while — and then just ignore them and get on with things.”
    
    C Finlayson
    
    https://e-tangata.co.nz/nzoa-pijf/chris-finlayson-co-governance-should-be-embraced-not-feared/
    
    Let’s have our referendum and ignore the thugs and their Establishment enablers.
    
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    October 21, 2023 12:57pm
- Matt Long
  
  Christopher obviously knows people.
  
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  October 21, 2023 9:43am
  - mawm
    
    He’s probably advising on “treaty settlements” and making a packet just like the rest in the treaty industry.
    
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    October 21, 2023 10:07am
    - JJ56
      
      Why not just check?
      https://www.bankside.co.nz/members/christopher-finlayson-kc
      
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      October 21, 2023 11:02am
      - mawm
        
        It doesn’t tell me if he’s advising or how many packets he’s making.
        
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        October 21, 2023 3:24pm
- Ghost
  
  If you think a referendum won’t cause problems, protests, and even possibly riots then you haven’t been paying attention to how a very small part of Māori have been behaving.
  
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  October 21, 2023 9:45am
  - Local Miller
    
    They are probably right, a referendum may well result in riots, but then those that riot are breaking the law and showing their utter disregard for the democratic process. The true believers in the Treaty Principles are relatively few, but very prominent and vocal.
    Look what has just happened with The Voice in Australia. Good since has prevailed and the No camp won the day. While some have objected and called the majority racist, etc. by and large the result has been accepted peacefully. Why can’t the same thing happen here?
    
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    October 21, 2023 10:09am
    - wsk12345
      
      Apparently every state and territory – nearly all labo run- are now progressing their own Voice. So even when they lose they get their way. 🙁
      
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      October 21, 2023 10:13am
    - Ghost
      
      Breaking the law, sorry, what does that mean? Are those who occupy private land that fletchers are going to build on breaking the law. How about what was going on in the Te Urewera National Park that led to Māori getting a public apology, that sure sounded like they were breaking the law. Chances of the militant side of Māori being charged and prosecuted in New Zealand are slim and people should prepare for such actions from them and understand those people do not represent the vast majority of Māori, they just represent what the gravy train has created.
      
      And to the down voters have the balls to say why you don’t think a small part of Māori will protest and riot.
      
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      October 21, 2023 10:20am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Sure, they will riot and behave badly
        Let them.
        It just shows us who they are and will work against them
        
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        October 21, 2023 10:34am
    - Frank Thomas
      
      I beg to disagree with you regarding the outcome of The Voice in Australia. While the overwhelming majority quite rightly eventually voted No, it has caused a lot of bitter division amongst Aussies. So much so, because nobody knew exactly what voting Yes actually meant. The feedback I get from a lot of people I know in Aussie is that despite being sympathetic to the plight of the indigenous aboriginal people, they should not have had a referendum to begin with.
      
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      October 21, 2023 11:39am
      - Matt Long
        
        Better having a referendum than having co-governance forced through without consultation.
        
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        October 21, 2023 11:47am
      - I remember when
        
        Far better having the bitter division left unspoken?
        
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        October 21, 2023 12:30pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yes it may cause riots. So the police can arrest the rioters.
    
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    October 21, 2023 11:19am
- Che Guava
  
  These people are so arrogant they truly think that it is “dangerous” to allow people have their say. BREXIT was a “dangerous” outcome, Trump is a “dangerous” element. These are the same people who claim with a straight face that we have democracy in the West. In international relations, the sales pitch is always “democracy versus authoritarianism” whenever we need to impose our system on a truly (or more so) sovereign nation.
  
  What they really mean when they talk of this thing called “democracy” is a system where mass opinion and popular will are shaped and directed in the interests of the powerful.
  
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  October 21, 2023 10:27am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Guava: “What they really mean when they talk of this thing called “democracy” is a system where mass opinion and popular will are shaped and directed in the interests of the powerful.”
    
    Better to be ruled by self appointed tyrannical thugs and zero possibility of voting them out???
    
    Again, what exact alternative system do you prefer? Come on, name it. No weasel words.
    
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    October 21, 2023 6:24pm
- thirteenstars
  
  Well, Luxon agrees with him calling any such referendum “divisive”.
  
  But that’s the Kiwi way. Why rock the boat when it’s sinking fast enough on its own?
  
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  October 21, 2023 12:09pm
  - Burtland
    
    Luxon doesnt want it getting in the way of ticking his boxes and getting his gong before the ship of fools is lost.
    
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    October 21, 2023 12:52pm
- BananaLlama
  
  He is worried that it will show the treaty supporters to be a bunch of violent racists.
  
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  October 21, 2023 12:30pm
- Burtland
  
  who does finlayson speak for … himself, or Ngai Tahu?
  
  Labour showed a complete lack of leadership letting co-governance out of the bottle – it now needs to be addressed before it destroys NZ.
  
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  October 21, 2023 12:44pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Giving the oiks an actual say in the way they are ruled over by their betters is the wrong sort of democracy, we want to give them only the illusion of input.
  
  Finlayson is malignant.
  
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  October 21, 2023 2:00pm
- Dave
  
  In fairness to Finlayson, even without an explicit treaty principles debate, I’ve been shocked and appalled in the last few years by the willingness of some political parties and some of my fellow citizens to abandon democracy and discriminate against me because my ancestors didn’t arrive here until the nineteenth century.
  
  Obviously, it’s better to sneak in radical constitutional changes without the sort of public debate which preceded the adoption of the US constitution, the Bill of Rights and subsequent amendments.
  
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  October 21, 2023 3:17pm
- JimBobJoe
  
  Former Ngai Tahu Treaty negotiation lawyer C Findlayson ….
  
  [At Bell Gully he spent years fighting for Ngāi Tahu against the government, pursuing its treaty claims through a series of high-profile court battles. “I used to love going to the office in the morning when we were suing the Crown” Finlayson said in a speech in 2009. “Ngāi Tahu mastered the art of aggressive litigation, whether it was suing the Waitangi Tribunal and [National Treaty negotiations minister] Doug Graham or the Director-General of Conservation. It was take no prisoners and it resulted in a good settlement.”]
  
  Source Wikipedi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Finlayson
  
  Quote from Findlayson is referenced in Wikipedia to: https://www.beehive.govt.nz/speech/treaty-settlements-speech-ta-apirana-ngata-memorial-lecture
  
  Findlayson is firmly in the Maori Rangitira was robbed camp judging my his public comments.
  
  He appears in my opinion, to want no debate about it as he has been fox and gamekeeper on Treaty issues for decades, and he knows best.
  
  And the rest of us are racist rednecks and despicable people – well that is the inference from his KK comments. What a lovely chap….
  
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  October 21, 2023 7:27pm
Inandout

BY, there is a certain irony in the statement that the US special forces are in Israel ‘providing advice to the IDF on hostage rescue’. I would presume the IDF will have been schooled in the brilliant Entebe airport rescue, one of the most daring in modern times. The US by comparison has an appalling record on hostage rescues.
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October 21, 2023 8:23am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Maybe they are doing other things to help.
  
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  October 21, 2023 9:43am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Signals Intelligence most likely
    Lots of listening expertise in that Carrier group
    Also if they find out where the US hostages are then they will go and get them
    There’s a Marine Amphibious Group ready to go
    
    Apparently a couple of hostages have just been released?
    
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    October 21, 2023 10:38am
kevn

one word… biden. That’s what is wrong.
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October 21, 2023 8:31am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  He hates Americans. Why else would he pull troops from Afghanistan leaving $82B of equipment and American Citizens for the Taliban?
  Crimes!
  
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  October 21, 2023 9:11am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Re-word. ‘Biden and his Admin hate Americans’
    
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    October 21, 2023 9:18am
  - KH
    
    They did not “pull out” of Afghanistan. Underneath all the platitudes they lost the war.
    
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    October 21, 2023 10:36am
    - Matt Long
      
      What was the purpose of the war? Was it something to do with Alqaeda, and capturing the people responsible for 9/11?
      
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      October 21, 2023 10:51am
      - KH
        
        The purpose indeed was those things Matt. They got who they could get in the first three months. So they should have moved on.
        But you know that term ‘Mission Drift’. Well it got them by the goolies well and proper
        20 years later……. they got out.
        
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        October 21, 2023 5:50pm
    - I remember when
      
      “they lost the war.”
      From what has happened since then it would seem that both sides ‘lost the war.’
      
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      October 21, 2023 12:26pm
imalwaysright

Fed up with rugby referees coaching players during the game.
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October 21, 2023 8:39am
KH

Just another day in Gaza. More people dying in pain and terror.
https://www.southfront.press/gaza-war-update-israel-bombs-orthodox-church-kills-18-christian-palestinians-videos/
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October 21, 2023 8:50am
- RightNow
  
  Don’t let the truth get in the way of your hatred KH
  
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  October 21, 2023 9:41am
  - KH
    
    Exactly which bits of the article do you object to?
    
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    October 21, 2023 10:42am
    - All_on_Red
      
      ‘The Hamas-run interior ministry said’
      ‘The Strip’s government media office reported’
      
      I find it amusing you are either so gullible or so bigoted you accept what these people say without question. Yet you question everything Israel says…
      But thats ok. We now know what you are.
      
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      October 21, 2023 10:52am
- Southern Raider
  
  [Mod – debate without making it personal]
  
  Israel bombed a building beside the church, not the church itself. A wall of the building partially collapsed onto part of the church
  
  I suppose you still think Israel bombed a hospital and 500 people died?
  
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  October 21, 2023 9:54am
  - kowtow
    
    Amazing how so many people are prepared to take the word of a literally actual terrorist org, dedicated to destroying a sovereign nation in the name of a particular religion , who’re still holding 200 hostages following a genocidal assault on a whole region of a country.
    
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    October 21, 2023 1:01pm
    - mawm
      
      kowtow – I agree, but what is also amazing is how many people are prepared to believe news reports from the media that have so recently been shown to lie and lie and lie, and from politicians and governments that have done the same and continue to do so.
      
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      October 21, 2023 3:30pm
  - kowtow
    
    Te Media pahti keep telling us how short on everything Gaza is . Medical supplies , electricity, water etc ……….
    
    ……..but they won’t comment on the huge supply of rockets they have to fire into a sovereign nation.
    
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    October 21, 2023 1:05pm
  - Ghost
    
    The building was part of the church
    
    At least 16 Christians, including 10 from one family, were killed on Thursday evening during an air attack on one of the buildings within the compound of the St. Porphyrios Greek Orthodox Church in Gaza. Several other people reportedly remained trapped under the debris.
    
    The building—affiliated with the church, which is one the oldest churches in Gaza—collapsed in the explosion, caused by Israeli missile strikes, according to the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate.
    
    Article
    
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    October 21, 2023 1:11pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      It was not an Israeli air strike. That has been debunked. It was a Hamas missile that misfired – there is a recording of a couple of Hamas military discussing it. There were no Israeli air strikes at that time in that region.
      
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      October 21, 2023 1:17pm
      - Ghost
        
        Ah, you’re confused
        
        https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-gaza-strip-conflict/card/israeli-military-claims-responsibility-for-church-blast-in-gaza-ItyUvoIPaeNBEsIeIS6J
        
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        October 21, 2023 2:13pm
    - wsk12345
      
      Greek Orthodox Church? They can’t be muslims?!
      
      7 1
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      October 21, 2023 2:08pm
  - KH
    
    Thank you mod. Plenty of hostility here of a personal nature. But little actual debate. In response to the article which quotes in part the IDF and gives death numbers for both sides.
    
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    October 21, 2023 1:28pm
- Matt Long
  
  Just another series of misinformation, a wall of the church damaged and an out building hit, likely two people killed.
  https://x.com/breeadail/status/1715351539760484784?s=20
  Were the people sheltering there terrorists?
  
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  October 21, 2023 9:55am
- mawm
  
  KH – this is a short clip of what the Israeli clean up crew found. There is plenty more available but this is stomach churning enough for me to not watch any more. It beggars belief how depraved these Hamas murderers are.
  
  https://rumble.com/v3qjlby-israeli-clean-up-crew-on-what-they-found-after-massacre.html
  
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  October 21, 2023 10:16am
- artemisia
  
  Gaza City. Civilians were given warning and opportunity to leave. Maybe people dying in pain and terror were not civilians. First casualty of war ….
  
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  October 21, 2023 10:32am
- G152
  
  Then do not invade Israel and murder civilians.
  
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  October 21, 2023 10:37am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    I doubt that Palestinian Christians participated in or supported the recent murderous Hamas attack on Israeli citizens.
    
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    October 21, 2023 6:11pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Love the way you faithfully regurgitate Press Releases for the Hamas Government.
  
  Love the way you are showing us who you are too…
  
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  October 21, 2023 10:41am
- AitchW
  
  Hamas could have prevented those deaths by releasing the hostages. They have more blood, far more blood, on their hands than the IDF. They’ve sewn the wind and are now reaping the inevitable whirlwind. They are willing to sacrifice thousands of their own people in pursuit of their stated aim of destroying Israel.
  
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  October 21, 2023 1:06pm
- MCōs
  
  I remember back in the Vietnam War every day our newspapers would dutifully repeat the American line the so many thousand Vietcong were killed every day
  We believed it at the time, well most of us did until the absurdity of the numbers made it clear we were being spun a line.
  Personally I don’t believe anybody anymore
  
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  October 21, 2023 1:17pm
Paulus

Israel has identified two Hamas Leaders, and has said to them – We will get you wherever you are and where you try and hide.
After Munich Massacre similarly all the perpetrators were got one by one.
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October 21, 2023 8:52am
- Southern Raider
  
  There is already an ongoing count. About 4 of Hamas’s cabinet has already been eliminated and several other key senior members including military commanders and weapons engineers.
  
  Online joke is how will Israel eliminate the Hamas cabinet member at front left of the photo (she is in a full burka :))
  
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  October 21, 2023 9:56am
  - Matt Long
    
    A patch of good news amongst the horror, two American hostages have been released, apparently with input from Qatar.
    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-releases-two-us-hostages-for-humanitarian-reasons-response-qatari-efforts-2023-10-20/
    
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    October 21, 2023 10:57am
    - Burtland
      
      2 released 200 to go – Hamas are so nice
      
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      October 21, 2023 1:03pm
  - kowtow
    
    He’s in a full burka……..
    
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    October 21, 2023 1:07pm
slightlyrighty

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2023/10/20/kenneth-chesebro-threat-trump-powell-plea-georgia-election-subversion-vpx.cnn

Trump is not having a good couple of days….2 of his attorneys have pled guilty, and I would say that Chesebro is more damaging that Powell.
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October 21, 2023 8:59am
- All_on_Red
  
  The Georgia indictment accuses Trump and a number of others of conspiring to overturn the apparent result of the 2020 election in Georgia. The problem with the indictment is that using legal means to try to reverse the apparent result of an election is not illegal. In fact, it may well be praiseworthy. It happens all the time; that is how Al Franken, for one, became a senator.
  There is only one illegal act alleged in the indictment, and it does not involve Donald Trump. That act was breaking into a voting machine or other voting equipment in Coffee County for the purpose of trying to prove voter fraud.
  
  So what did Powell actually plead guilty to. Sure enough, the only charge to which she pled guilty was illegally accessing the Coffee County voting equipment. Prosecutors have recommended a sentence of six years’ probation and $9,000 in fines and restitution.
  
  CNN, always hopeful, thinks the net is closing on Trump: “‘This is a really big breakthrough for the prosecutors,’ CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig said on ‘News Central.’”
  No, it isn’t.
  
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  October 21, 2023 10:44am
  - RichardX
    
    Good repetition of the talking point but you may find there is more to play out on this.
    
    It is also interesting that by having plea deals with the first two, no one gets a preview of the case against the remaining defendants.
    
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    October 21, 2023 11:13am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Probation and a Fine?
      Slaps on the wrist so far
      
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      October 21, 2023 11:57am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    I don’t think you understand how a plea deal works.
    
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    October 21, 2023 12:55pm
    - mawm
      
      A lot depends on who’s holding the cards. This is just another “Trump is really, really, really going down this time” from the left.
      
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      October 21, 2023 3:39pm
artemisia

Auckland Council to vote on Maori wards in 2025. If a new government brings back a version of specific ratepayer votes for these, like previously, will they also allow voting to dispense with them where ratepayers did not (specifically) vote for them?
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October 21, 2023 9:12am
- artemisia
  
  Clarify, the decision is soon but for the 2025 local government election.
  
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  October 21, 2023 10:17am
Notsofast

A good 13 minute discussion on the voice vote and how the educated wealthy loved YES, the hoi polloi not so much.
The strangest thing, but clearly learnings (that awesome term) for NZ.

https://youtu.be/euUZkFSerA8?si=WEDX0EV4zrpJCT29
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October 21, 2023 9:17am
Maggy Wassilieff

On the links (RHS of this blog) I noticed Pete George’s blogsite Your NZ seemed to be active again.

I clicked on it and discovered its all in Indonesian…and has nothing to do with NZ politics.

[Mod – thanks Maggy, I’ve passed that along to DPF]
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October 21, 2023 9:22am
- Matt Long
  
  “Nothing to do with NZ.”
  Are you shaming us all some more Maggy by being proficient in Bahasa Indonesia?
  
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  October 21, 2023 9:58am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I will readily admit to using a detect language tool.
    
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    October 21, 2023 10:14am
  - greybeard
    
    Isn’t Google wonderful ?
    
    4 0
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    October 21, 2023 4:27pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Perhaps DPF could link to Karl de Fresne’s Blog?
  Mod?
  Thx
  
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  October 21, 2023 10:46am
  - kevn
    
    https://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2023/10/suddenly-media-are-no-longer-important.html
    
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    October 21, 2023 10:53am
    - Jack5
      
      Du Fresne reports Yes, Jessica? made this comment as she fronted to Luxon:
      
      “We are the Fourth Estate that represents the public …
      
      😄😂
      
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      October 21, 2023 12:18pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Rand Paul Warns of Presidential Internet Kill Switch.
This would mean Joe could torn off the Internet!

What would be good is turning off unruly Country’s Internet, such as Iran.

https://wiredconservative.com/redbloodedconservative/rand-paul-warns-of-presidential-internet-kill-switch/?
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October 21, 2023 9:29am
- Burtland
  
  switching off google would be enough to cause a massive collapse
  
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  October 21, 2023 1:14pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    So would switching off the warmongering Pentagon.
    
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    October 21, 2023 7:19pm
Jack5

Americans, too, are feeling the pinch from higher interest rates to control inflation.

The Wall Street Journal reports: “Mortgage applications fell in the week ended Oct. 13 to their lowest level since 1995 …”

The newspaper says American home sales fell in September to the lowest rate in 13 years. For all of 2023, sales of “previously owned” homes are on track to be the lowest since at least 2011.
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October 21, 2023 9:31am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  That ten year bond yield got to 4.98% at The Bell, this morning NZ time. Up from 4.49% last Saturday, NZ time.
  
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  October 21, 2023 3:06pm
RightNow

So many seem to believe Hamas propaganda is truth, yet choose to disbelieve them when they proclaim their goal is genocide of Jews.
That’s my charitable interpretation, perhaps really they also want genocide.
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October 21, 2023 10:01am
- Burtland
  
  just another big hole in woke left ideology
  
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  October 21, 2023 2:20pm
Matt Long

The persons asking for disinterested proof of the massacres in Israel; are you asking for proof a massacre occurred, of numbers, of how people were killed?
Whether toture like this occurred?
https://x.com/SilbermannR/status/1715023218338083107?s=20
Which disinterested persons would meet your standard of truth?
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October 21, 2023 10:04am
- Che Guava
  
  A guy named “Ronald Silbermann” can hardly be condsidered a disnterested person when it comes to Israel.
  
  Besides, what is this supposed to even be “proof” of? It’s just words, nothing else.
  
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  October 21, 2023 10:13am
  - Matt Long
    
    I’m not saying it’s proof, I’m asking which areas you regard as credible, or proven, which areas are not and what standard of proof you need?
    Do you believe “Some People Did Something” like Ilan Omar?
    I tend to believe my friends who say their relatives in Israel have been caught up in the terror attacks as credible, but they have not referenced specific events.
    
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    October 21, 2023 10:42am
    - Matt Long
      
      Do you believe Hamas people gouged out the eyes of some of their defeated Fatah opponents before throwing them off buildings?
      
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      October 21, 2023 10:45am
  - kevn
    
    Multiple sources.
    
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    October 21, 2023 10:54am
  - mawm
    
    Che – here, immerse yourself in the whole news conference. (1 hour 11 min)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_rFWDZd86E&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fvladtepesblog.com%2F&source_ve_path=OTY3MTQ&feature=emb_imp_woyt
    
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    October 21, 2023 3:43pm
- kevn
  
  Matt… The other part of that story is the fact the perps had lunch as well. While committing the unspeakable acts.
  There is no hole deep enough.
  
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  October 21, 2023 10:14am
Benedict Yu

Looks like the Crown may appeal the 10 months home detention sentence for this guy.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/133150171/i-thought-it-was-game-over-samurai-sword-attack-victim-feared-hed-die
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October 21, 2023 10:10am
Matt Long

Israel would appear to be fairly crap at running open air prisons.
https://x.com/MattLon13470215/status/1715265418334797904?s=20
And for people who have experienced genocide throughout their history they’re really not good at genocide, the rise rise in Gaza’s population from about 200,000 in 1948 to 2,200,000 really speaks of complete incompetence.
Genocide by definition is actually to wipe out people.
“the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
“a campaign of genocide”
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October 21, 2023 10:17am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Half that 2.2 million population is under 18. The birth rate must be phenomenal.
  
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  October 21, 2023 10:20am
  - kevn
    
    BY… Transients there for kibutz kulture?
    
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    October 21, 2023 10:56am
  - artemisia
    
    A very poor population in Gaza. Overseas aid is substantial. Or was.
    
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    October 21, 2023 11:19am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    It was up to 5.8 at the turn of this century… It’s about 3.9 now.
    
    https://palestine.unfpa.org/sites/default/files/styles/news_detail/public/news/fertility_rate_1.jpg?itok=C0cYR7KP
    
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    October 21, 2023 12:54pm
  - Burtland
    
    a guy on the BBC this morning – 2 wives 9 children
    
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    October 21, 2023 2:35pm
Matt Long

Umm, did anyone think of cleaning up the mess? I flew to Madras in the 90s and the toilets were overflowing into the aisle, didn’t seem to worry anyone, and was a good prep for pretty much any public facilities where you had to swim against the flow to gain entry.
https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/easyjet-flight-canceled-someone-fouls-up-place-amid-delays-absolute-chaos-passenger
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October 21, 2023 10:33am
ClanMcleod

Another conspiracy theory gone.

Health Canada Confirms Undisclosed Presence of DNA Sequence in Pfizer Shot

You mean Pfizer weren’t open and honest about the ingredients of their clot shot? Say it ain’t so!

The health regulator says Pfizer did not disclose the presence of the Simian Virus 40 (SV40) DNA sequence in its mRNA COVID-19 vaccine at the time of filing.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/world/exclusive-health-canada-confirms-undisclosed-presence-of-dna-sequence-in-pfizer-shot-5513277
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October 21, 2023 11:06am
- RightNow
  
  The only enduring immunity about these “vaccines” is that provided to Pfizer and Moderna
  
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  October 21, 2023 11:34am
Truman lodge

Why are people up in arms about 3
motorcycle club members joining next generation gym in parnell next to the tennis center. The gym has members of many types of clubs, like golf clubs and fishing clubs etc. Well people like to join motorcycle clubs so what’s the issue?
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October 21, 2023 11:11am
Benedict Yu

I recall Jacinda getting excited a while back at the prospect of electric pick up trucks (utes in New Zealand) being just around the corner.

Well they are a reality in the USA. The 2023 Ford F-150 Lightning. The problem is that sales are low and all unsold stock are being recalled because of quality control issues.

https://jalopnik.com/ford-to-cancel-all-dealer-stock-orders-of-the-2023-f-15-1850892754

Sales are so bad some dealers are offering huge discounts – up to $15,000 on the $US 60,000 price tag.

From the reviews it seems that the range is OK – about 500 km when the vehicle is empty. However try to tow a caravan or boat, and the range plummets to 160 km 🙁

I can’t see these things catching on with farmers, tradies, and folks who like to tow boats and caravans.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/review-2023-ford-f-150-lightning-electric-pickup-truck/
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October 21, 2023 11:14am
- ClanMcleod
  
  EVs are the most overhyped thing since the Pfizer jab.
  
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  October 21, 2023 11:55am
- Ian
  
  LDV NZ have confirmed they are discontinuing their EV Ute – sold 53 so far, compared to 605 Ford Rangers registered in September only. Currently the LDV Ute is discounted by $23,000 (incl the rebate) to clear remaining stock (Stuff Motoring). Would not wanted to have bought at full price….
  
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  October 21, 2023 12:59pm
  - rouppe
    
    Plus it’s 2wd not 4wd.
    
    Plus it’s advertised range is 325km or so.
    
    Plus it’s max tow rating is 1500kg braked, not the 2500-3000kg of diesel utes.
    
    Plus the brochure says if you tow that, range is halved. Be surprised if you got 150km towing.
    
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    October 21, 2023 3:14pm
Notsofast

Meanwhile JK Rowling discusses what jobs would suit her in jail.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/jk-rowling-says-she-would-happily-go-to-prison-over-her-anti-trans-views/KJZWACU4NBERPCS3RFV7ZW5NMM/

Talk about unrepentant!

I guess she and Shaneel can’t both be right.
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October 21, 2023 11:42am
- Don Beckett
  
  No, J K Rowling is right.
  
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  October 21, 2023 1:21pm
  - Notsofast
    
    Shaneel Lal from wiki:
    
    “Lal disagreed with the National Party’s assertion that the bill would criminalise parents for advising their children against taking puberty blockers; arguing instead that the bill banned parents from forcibly stopping their children from taking puberty blockers with the intention of suppressing their chosen gender identity or expression.”
    
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_Practices_Prohibition_Legislation_Act_2022
    
    A man of prodigious wisdom and world experience decides the powerful and life wrecking drugs parents must administer to their children.
    This conversation has been shut down everywhere but here.
    
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    October 21, 2023 1:39pm
I remember when

Council’s narrow vote for fossil fuel treaty: Kapiti Observer.

Why can the Climate Change crowd not understand that if fossil fuels are so bad for us, they will die out anyway.
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October 21, 2023 12:02pm
I remember when

From Kapi-Mana News:
Across NZ’s tech sector currently only 4% of the workforce is Maori, 2.8% Pacifika and 29% are female.
Tech is a growth industry the world over but, during the past two years, the number of students learning digital technology in NZ high schools declined by 3.1%, with even greater drops for Maori (-5.5%), Pacifika (-4.3%) and female (-2.8%) students.

An area that it would seem to suit polynesian skills.
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October 21, 2023 12:10pm
- Burtland
  
  this whole sector sits on top of strong STEM skills – until this is turned around NZs future will continue to be bleak – girl-MATH wont cut it
  
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  October 21, 2023 2:49pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Read this……
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/stories/2018912009/answer-to-new-zealand-s-maths-problem-remains-elusive
    
    and weep
    This year, Low’s position at Melville High School has been dis-established.
    
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    October 21, 2023 3:08pm
    - Burtland
      
      I honestly think the damage is pretty much terminal – poor teacher training and a child lead curriculum have been devastating, large class sizes and removal of streaming is the final step.
      
      decolonisation is then complete – NZ rapidly returning to the Stone Age
      
      Whats next for Rosemary Hipkins and the NZCER to destroy?
      
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      October 21, 2023 6:01pm
- NothingLeft
  
  I work in tech. It is intellectually and educationally demanding. Mostly intellectually top 5-10% of population, mostly thing-focused men – most women tend to avoid field as uninteresting. This is sadly not something that polynesians show a lot of cultural or individual talent for, and it is far more useful to focus more effort and encouragement on those who display most inclination and ability. Ie geek-spectrum kids, that are mostly asian or european boys.
  
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  October 21, 2023 6:16pm
The Veteran

I’ve seen many bizarre things that governments do but this one must surely take the biscuit … the Queensland government has granted their public servants five days paid leave to mourn the ‘No’ vote the ‘Voice’ referendum.

For the record Queensland voted No (1,919,472 – 68,97%) vs Yes (863,620 – 31.03%).

I have never seen a government so divorced from reality.
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October 21, 2023 12:31pm
- Ghost
  
  All the no longer employed labour MP’s get paid 3 months to mourn their slaughter in the election….
  
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  October 21, 2023 12:39pm
Tony Stuart

Our Whanganui election campaign got a very positive mention from Andrea Vance in The Post this morning. She writes:

The signs were there. Or, rather they weren’t – and that was the problem.

One weekend in early August, a senior Labour MP drove into Whanganui. It was a chilly morning. But, standing by the side of a busy main route into town, was National’s candidate Carl Bates, grinning, surrounded by 10volunteers enthusiastically thrusting placards at passing motorists.

It was nine weeks to polling day, the way-point at which candidates are officially allowed to erect their hoardings. Often, that’s a lively event, marking the start of election fever with drill-and-hammer photos.

But neither Steph Lewis, the local Labour MP, nor her red-trimmed hoardings, were in sight. The MP’s heart sank: “There is a rule of thumb that overturning a majority of 8000 is nearly impossible to do.” Lewis won the seat in 2020 by an 8,191 margin. “But, the Nats were highly energised. And at that point, I thought Whanganui might slip.”

Not only did we do what Vance states is “nearly impossible” but we added 5070 votes in our favour, a turnaround of 13,261. That made us National’s sixth-highest turnaround margin. The best was Carlos Cheung in Mt Roskill who turned a deficit of 13,853 into a majority of 1429, a turnaround of 15,282 votes. In all, twelve National MP’s won seats with turnarounds in excess of 10,000 votes.

Yes, Labour was ripe for the plucking this election, but you still have to get out and do the work. Our ground game was good, and around the country Labour’s was not; they were underfunded and well down on volunteer numbers.

Interestingly too, there were some bleats from Labour supporters this week about the effect Topham Guerin had on the result. Act spent the most on social media at $900k, Labour spent $500k and National’s spend was only $400k. Not only were Topham Guerin superior, but they provided best bang for buck so all power to ’em!
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October 21, 2023 12:36pm
Cinematic

Where have all those All Black naysayers gone? Come on, you know who you are.
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October 21, 2023 12:47pm
- Ghost
  
  Why did they win a game? Must go read the news
  
  Oh shit, I’m cancelling my appointment with my Argentinian physio next week
  
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  October 21, 2023 12:58pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Yes, a bit of a hiding for the Argies – 44 – 6 to the AB’s. 🙂
    
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    October 21, 2023 1:25pm
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      And would have been 51-6 if Mo’unga had passed it to an unmarked Jordan right at the end.
      
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      October 21, 2023 1:32pm
      - Tauhei Notts
        
        Mo’unga backed the All Blacks to win 30-39.
        
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        October 21, 2023 3:12pm
      - kisekiman
        
        I was yelling “you greedy little bastard” at the telly, so much for ruthless and clinical teamwork. Another weird thing was Scott Barrett not coming back on at 75min after his 10 min in the bin was up. The game was well won by then but a little bit cocky and disrespectful to the Argies.
        
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        October 21, 2023 6:44pm
  - greybeard
    
    Just imagine if you needed an Argentinian dentist.
    
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    October 21, 2023 4:22pm
- cmm
  
  ABs have hardly been covering themselves in glory.
  A few weeks back it was “fingers crossed, they can beat Namibia.”
  
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  October 21, 2023 1:38pm
  - Cinematic
    
    World Cup final booked. Can’t have done any better than that. All the other big trophies already stored away. One more to get!
    
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    October 21, 2023 2:04pm
  - Matt Long
    
    Five weeks ago New Zealand was a gulag archipelago.
    The breathe of freedom and winning being allowed is wafting across the country.
    
    7 2
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    October 21, 2023 3:31pm
- JimBobJoe
  
  I was dubious they would beat Ireland – I rated them at a 30% chance as Ireland have had their number since 2016 and that fateful day in Chicago. But Cane and Savea played at 110% of their ability and the rest of the pack followed – and a win resulted…
  
  The ABs are currently playing well with a much improved defensive structure on display in the RWC which stops teams getting big roll ons in the initial hit up phases. We are also much beat in how and when we send a flyer out of defense to disrupt…. the whole defense is not leaving gapping holes as they did in 2022 at home to Ireland
  
  But they are still underdogs for the final. the Boks are in damn fine form playing a killer basic brand of football and controlling game tempo
  
  Can Abs win the final – yes. Will I back them to the hilt – yes.
  
  Do I still think Fozzie is the worst coach since the 1970s – Yes. Even worse than John Mitchell and his deranged selections at the 03 RWC in Australia.
  
  The facts still stand that under Foster:
  NZ lost a series at home to Ireland.
  Lost its first ever test to Argentina and then followed that up by losing to Argentina in NZ for the first time.
  And the win ratio is terrible compared to Fozzies peer group or former AB coaches
  
  The reason the Abs are now playing well is J Schmidt and J Ryan joined the coaching team. The defense improvements is Joes work and the hugely improved set piece and maul are Ryans work.
  
  I cant wait for Razor to get hold of the playing group – he is a winner: at picking coaches and giving them structure and guidance, at picking players and fitting them into a coherent team. He also does a not bad old man breakdance…
  
  AB player group deserve praise for turning around dreadful form in 2022…. but Foster should never have been AB coach and even if the coaching staff and players deliver a world title, Fosters record is still not good enough
  
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  October 21, 2023 7:49pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

Yesterday I posted part of this.
For those interested I suggest getting on the Free Speech emailing list.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/free-speech-union-goes-to-bat-against-taupo-council-who-stopped-julian-batchelor-from-speaking/?
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October 21, 2023 1:16pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Never a dull moment in Meng’s life:

https://www.gisborneherald.co.nz/foon-criticises-gisborne-district-council-over-halt-of-unconsented-foreshore-work-at-tatapouri
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October 21, 2023 2:59pm
- John Loveridge
  
  Quick to get his hand out for some public money, I see.
  
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  October 21, 2023 7:04pm
kevn

Maggy… He is having trouble adjusting it seems.
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October 21, 2023 3:47pm
blue collar

WOOOOHOOOOOOOOO !!!!!

THE MIGHTY TARANAKI ARE NPC. CHAMPIONS !!!!

Get that up yas . Absolutely chuffed .
Great game .
Well done Hawkes bay
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October 21, 2023 4:04pm
miltonF

“The RBNZ is independent from the govt”

Where did this mythical gem of misinformation originate? I really want to know. This is a really absurd, and huge lie. I worry about the effects of this lie, as it serves to insulate the govt from the effects of its economic decisions.

Let’s look at the facts. The RBNZ governor is appointed by the finance minister. The RBNZ wages are paid by the govt. The govt issues mandates, which the RBNZ must follow. What is a mandate? A mandate is “an official order or commission to do something”.

How can anyone in their right mind think that the RBNZ is independent? It really doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. It’s one of the “big lies” designed to manipulate and abuse the population. It’s right up there with the lie of conflating inflation with price rises. They’ve misinformed the public into believing prices rising cause inflation, rather that inflation causing price rises.
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October 21, 2023 4:14pm
- miltonF
  
  Would the down-tickers please explain their reasoning? I REALLY would like to know how the RBNZ is forced to follow govt mandates (official orders) and yet claim to be independent?
  
  Imagine if I hired a gardener to cut my lawns, paid the gardener directly from my pocket, ordered the gardener exactly how to cut my lawns, and then later claimed the gardener was completely independent, I have no idea how or why my lawns were cut…it was entirely the gardener’s idea.
  
  It’s idiotic in the extreme.
  
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  October 21, 2023 8:14pm
Swifty

Just bloody tragic:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/133161675/mistakes-contributed-to-death-of-the-voice-of-the-golden-shears

But instead of removing health access barriers, funding more staff, Labour chose to spend our money on other far less important or less valuable things – a list too big to mention and honestly I can’t be bothered, we all know what they are.

Labour’s incoherent priority setting killed New Zealanders. We must never forget that.

Just bloody tragic. What a needless waste.
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October 21, 2023 4:26pm
- Burtland
  
  seems like the hospital can be added to Wellingtons long list of problems
  
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  October 21, 2023 6:16pm
NothingLeft

The problem with most of the left, Labour and Greens being extreme examples, is that they massively overestimate their competence, ability and understanding of the complex systems they seek to change. They break things and fail for often obvious reasons that they don’t seem able to anticipate. They would do well to heed Jordan Peterson on the matter:

https://youtu.be/IPzCXpo2o30?t=299
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October 21, 2023 6:02pm
greybeard

What has happened to the apparently life-threatening problem of Queenstown water?
Not a mention of it for a couple of weeks !
Maybe the problem was not the municipal water supply after all, but a local hospitality-based problem !
But of course that would not have been in line with the pro-10 Waters brigade: this was no more than a setup to promote maori-controlled water infrastructure.
National-ACT: get rid of these destructive cretins.
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October 21, 2023 6:49pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  So the sick people were sick anyway……
  Just like one Covid case put Auckland into red light (childish) lockdown, all C/- your loving be kind Prime Minister – no name needed.
  
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  October 21, 2023 7:28pm
- Keith White
  
  They lie.
  We know they lie.
  They know we know they lie.
  They do not care, because they bought the media with the taxes they expropriated from us.
  
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  October 21, 2023 9:13pm

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