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October 8, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 08 October 2023

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General Debate

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Mark Hanley

We will have a new government in a week which has put in a lot of hard work to hit the ground running,

National has a team of capable ethical Ministers,

National has a stated focus on outcomes,

National will sack the hapless and dishonest Andrew Costner (how many murders, robberies, and stabbings has Costner’s tenure facilitated?)

National is vowing to smash gangs and bring down house prices (I haven’t seen any NZ political leaders take on these two difficult challenges before),

National listed a pipeline of infrastructure projects along with a new organisational structure to complete the projects outside the confines of the dismal public service,

National has a proven BIG CHALLENGE LEADER.

Whilst I understand the last 6 years has lead to a lot of KB negativity.

Isn’t it time you all switch from complaining and denigrating to learning about and commenting on the many good things National and ACT are doing?

AND then using your collective wisdom to provide researched and evidenced ideas for the incoming government to make NZ a cracker again!
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October 8, 2023 8:01am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Coster will be in office until April 2025. Appointed by the Governor General Cindy Kiro.
  He can’t be just sacked.
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:18am
  - Paulus
    
    Coster can resign anyway at any time !
    
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    October 8, 2023 8:22am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      No such luck, he is a trougher. I guess contract could be terminated, but it will cost a pretty bundle.
      
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      October 8, 2023 8:31am
      - DeepBlue
        
        Sometimes a terminated contract is worth the financial hit.
        
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        October 8, 2023 8:39am
      - gravedodger
        
        Costing the Nation dear now, getting him out will be a “Cheap option”, don’t believe me, ask dairy owners, liquor outlets, Mall retailers, insurance is putting their business’ survival at risk.
        
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        October 8, 2023 12:49pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Terminate (his contract)…….with extreme prejudice!
        
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        October 8, 2023 5:19pm
    - cmm
      
      Coster’s crime wave is costing us millions a week, if not millions a day.
      
      For the damage being done it would be worth doubling Coster’s pay and putting him on Xbox leave for the rest of his life.
      
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      October 8, 2023 10:14am
      - Rusty
        
        @cmm
        Coster like Bloomfield has been a puppet for the Labour parties woke agenda since day one.
        
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        October 8, 2023 10:53am
      - cmm
        
        Rusty, NZ would also be better off if St Ash, Baker and the Pink Rincess were all put on Xbox leave at double pay.
        
        These are the real problems in government. The Cindys of the world just enable them.
        
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        October 8, 2023 11:39am
  - rouppe
    
    Tbh I don’t think coster is as big of a problem as the judiciary.
    
    Not to say he isn’t a problem, but a lot of angst will be addressed if sentences fit the crime
    
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    October 8, 2023 8:53am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      He is one of the “be kind” tribe.
      
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      October 8, 2023 9:38am
      - imalwaysright
        
        He polices by consent.
        Unfortunately most crims don’t consent to being policed.
        
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        October 8, 2023 11:03am
      - rouppe
        
        Yes, but imagine being a cop, putting offenders in front of a judge only to see them walk into home d.
        
        How demoralising would that be.
        
        Start with the judiciary, set expectations there.
        
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        October 8, 2023 2:03pm
  - Nickc2
    
    The incoming Minister of Police can make Coster’s position untenable.
    
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    October 8, 2023 8:54am
    - thirteenstars
      
      This is it. The Minister has the power to ensure the government’s policies are implemented.
      
      It is proper the minister does not interfere with operational matters but policy is another deal, and at some point Coster will have to decide if he wants to obstruct or resign.
      
      But it’ll take a switched-on minister who’s prepared to take charge.
      
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      October 8, 2023 1:38pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Mark Mitchell will be the Minister of Police, and AFIK, Chris Luxon has already granted him the authority (courtest of the Hosking Show) to get rid of Coster whenever he wants if they are elected.
        
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        October 8, 2023 4:11pm
      - thirteenstars
        
        “courtest of the Hosking Show”
        
        My God, I never knew Hosking had such power. That man is not only a spikey-haired God but a real mover and shaker.
        
        C’mon, Luxon can’t grant such power. The Minister must actually have such power. Does he? Since the PC is made via the Governor General I assume only that GG can remove them.
        
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        October 8, 2023 7:26pm
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      Nickc2 – Why would Ginny Anderspon make Coster’s position untenable? Care to explain?
      
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      October 8, 2023 6:02pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Read between the lines!
        
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        October 8, 2023 7:44pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Coster is smart enough to read the writing on the wall.
    
    When your boss has no confidence in you, you don’t hang around. The only question will be the size of the payout; and I expect normal employment contract law will apply.
    
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    October 8, 2023 9:03am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      He will maybe read the writing on the wall, but he is a serial trougher.
      He won’t go until pushed – with a huge suitcase full of dollars.
      
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      October 8, 2023 9:40am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Before he goes he might like to explain why he switched from containing and monitoring the brave peaceful Parliament protestors to launching a full -on violent assault upon them.
        Did he fold to pressure from the government .
        If so, he should have his warrant withdrawn by the governess general.
        
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        October 8, 2023 11:09am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Luxon was asked about sacking Coster, he stated we shall see, he said he would certainly have to change his stance
    
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    October 8, 2023 9:04am
    - Mark Hanley
      
      My guess is that police hate Costner, that is why he will be SUMMARILY DISMISSED.
      
      It may cost the government (us) a payout but it will be much cheaper than the deaths, the terror, the pushing of poisonous addictive substances into our most vulnerable, and the cost of shop front and mall repairs.
      
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      October 8, 2023 10:43am
    - leoj
      
      Luxon gets a double thumbs up for this statement re Israel: I am shocked and saddened by the attacks overnight against Israel. We condemn these Hamas attacks on Israel and the violence and suffering being inflicted on innocent civilians.
      There is no justification for these attacks and Israel has a right to defend itself.
      
      Now G, how about finding Luxon’s statement on Coster instead of your continued hearsay.
      
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      October 8, 2023 2:38pm
  - pdm
    
    Steve – Helen Clark had no problem getting rid of a Police Commissioner she did not like or want.
    
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    October 8, 2023 9:06am
    - pdm
      
      Plus Mahary got rid of Christine Rankin.
      
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      October 8, 2023 9:09am
    - Taieri
      
      At the time it was reported that Peter Doone, for he was the Police Commissioner in question, resigned after preventing a rookie cop from breath testing his girlfriend/wife. After resignation Doone got a job as an advisor in the Department of Prime Minister.
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/unrepentant-doone-forced-to-step-down/XURB4IOAKVT7XGDY44XOXDIFTI/
      
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      October 8, 2023 9:32am
      - nathie
        
        That was Labour’s “disgraced”* Helen Clark as PM that totally misrepresented the truth as to what actually happened.
        
        “The fake claim was damning. It accused the Police Commissioner of obstructing a police officer in the course of his duty at the very time the Cabinet was considering Mr Doone’s future. It whipped up public perception against Mr Doone – which was a key consideration for the Cabinet. ”
        
        https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0505/S00207/did-the-pm-treat-doone-with-honesty-and-integrity.htm
        
        * “Disgraced” is a MSM prefix usually ascribed to politicians on the right, so just using MSM conventions to describe a politician on the left when it is deserved on this occassion!
        
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        October 8, 2023 10:20am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Helen Clark. Well she had balls. Nobody answered her back.
      Pity the is nobody in National with that stamina.
      
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      October 8, 2023 9:42am
      - Flossie
        
        I actually voted Labour once to give her a go as she seemed like a no-nonsense kind of leader.
        Please note that I dìd say “once”.
        
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        October 8, 2023 12:41pm
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        Yes. I’ve wondered when people on the right would come around to acknowledging that Clark was – in important ways – a better PM than Key.
        
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        October 9, 2023 8:39am
- Philview
  
  I hope you are right but we could also have a 2017 situation with NZ First as Kingmaker and weeks of uncertainty and negotiations.
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:18am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Even if Peters is telling the truth about ruling ouLabour it will take weeks to negotiate a 3 way. Here’s to a NACT win!
    
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    October 8, 2023 9:39am
  - Rusty
    
    @Philview
    
    That’s MMP for you.
    
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    October 8, 2023 10:56am
- Gravelroad
  
  Yes, many of us here in rural are desperate for change.
  Our livelihoods are going down the gurgler and no-one in Labour/Greens gives a toss. In fact they actively want agriculture to fail.
  We need, smart, forward-focussed leadership and a step away from the business of divisive politics – please.
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:28am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Labour/Greens just don’t understand Primary Industries and Export Dollars.
    
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    October 8, 2023 8:33am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      They do understand it, but they are lefties, snd they hate success.
      
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      October 8, 2023 9:06am
    - igm
      
      They have no understanding of anything commercial, being failed public servants and unionists. Troughing is their salvation.
      
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      October 8, 2023 9:17am
      - kowtow
        
        Troughing may be their salvation but Marx is their prophet .
        
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        October 8, 2023 10:38am
    - Sarkozygroupie
      
      They do understand it, but it is highly disliked because it gets in the way of net zero and climate change, and makes them have to explain to voters how losing 25% of a country’s ag base that pays this country’s way is positive and to be attained at all costs.
      
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      October 9, 2023 1:59am
  - Damocles11
    
    The religious conservatives have got your back. Watch them waste their ‘protest votes’ on a few different fringe parties that won’t make the threshold.
    
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    October 8, 2023 9:55am
    - Lenticular
      
      @Damocles You guys told us you hate our way of life, are embarrassed about our values, will make no policy concessions to us, and that we should go elsewhere.
      Same for the anti mandate crowd.
      All we did was take you at your word.
      
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      October 8, 2023 11:08am
      - Damocles11
        
        Can’t remember any of that. Sounds like you’ve worked up a persecution complex, and are now stewing in bitterness.
        
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        October 8, 2023 11:39am
      - Matt Long
        
        Still, keep in mind that a vote for a party that will not get into parliament or not voting at all is half a vote for the Labour Green, TMP antichrist coalition.
        
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        October 8, 2023 11:56am
- Taieri
  
  Isn’t it time you all switch from complaining and denigrating to learning about and commenting on the many good things National and ACT are doing?
  ————–
  
  Having been in the opposition for the last 6 years they haven’t done anything yet. So far we have heard some promises, but how much are they really worth?
  
  What’s the National’s unequivocal stance on the “treaty partnership” and all the issues arising from that?
  
  What are they going to do about the profligacy of the local government and certain government departments?
  
  What are their practical and realistic plans with regard to the “public” service that no longer serves the public? Are they going to continue with creating new ministries and new “independent” commissions? What are they going to do about the present plethora of bottomless troughs and the snouts immersed into them?
  
  Are they going to adopt a pragmatic stance on the Net Zero, particularly with respect to agriculture, or are they going to continue to follow the current pipe dreams?
  
  Finally, the technical and service infrastructure of virtually the whole country is collapsing; for example the public health service no longer exists in practice as it was never designed to cater for the current population levels. What meaningful improvements do they propose?
  
  And last but not least, how they are going to pay for all the necessary changes?
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:44am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Your first ten words make the rest of your comment redundant, Taieri.
    
    Let’s give National a solid mandate & judge their progress after a couple of years.
    
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    October 8, 2023 9:05am
    - Mark Hanley
      
      Taieri, there are answers to each of your questions. try a few internet searches, apply a smidgen of positive critical thinking, and all will be revealed.
      
      Here is a starter for you…
      
      What are they going to do about the present plethora of bottomless troughs and the snouts immersed into them?
      
      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/09/election-2023-christopher-luxon-warns-ministry-of-business-innovation-and-employment-could-see-30pct-cut-under-national.html
      
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      October 8, 2023 11:06am
      - Taieri
        
        Here is a starter for you…
        ———
        
        No, it isn’t. I don’t particularly care by how many percent he says he’s going to reduce staff at MBIE. I want the specifics.
        
        For a start…
        
        What I want to know is, how many superfluous ministries will be liquidated, which quangos will bite the dust and which commissioners will apply for the job seeker allowance.
        Last time I checked, there’re something like 70 odd ministerial level portfolios. Lost the count of all the oxygen stealing quangos and as for the various commissioners – they seem to be sprouting like mushrooms after the light rain. All that in the country of 5 million.
        
        I am well past the stage where I’ll accept vacuous promises from a politician. Any politician. I want principles and firm commitments. They had 6 long years to formulate them.
        
        And just because I don’t like the current bunch of muppets it doesn’t mean that I should get excited by its lite alternative.
        
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        October 8, 2023 12:23pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Taieri. Once again I implore you to do a few internet searches to answer your questions.
        
        https://www.national.org.nz/values
        
        Justifying your vociferous criticism using specific unanswered questions really leaves you in No man’s land
        
        You are asking for specific answers from an opposition who do not have the resources nor the access for a detailed review of government and the public service.
        
        Whilst you ignore the shortcomings of the parties in power who do have the resources.
        
        I’m afraid you’re boxing yourself into a corner.
        
        You’ve got No-one to vote for.
        
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        October 8, 2023 12:52pm
      - Taieri
        
        You are asking for specific answers from an opposition who do not have the resources nor the access for a detailed review of government and the public service.
        ————-
        
        What resources or access do they need to review the public service? Are they living in a wilderness? They are in the Parliament for god sake. Is it really that difficult to assess the performance of the Ministry for Women? Or the Ministry for Pacific People?
        
        Whilst you ignore the shortcomings of the parties in power who do have the resources.
        ————-
        
        No, I don’t. I have a very negative view of the current government, but we are not discussing that. Your initial post to which I replied, was in praise of the future National/ACT government, which doesn’t exist yet. I raised a few pertinent questions in response. That’s all.
        
        As for whom I’ll vote for?…you’re right, there’s no one to vote for. I wish there was an option “none of the above”, but for the lack of it, I’ll just have to vote, as usual, for the lesser evil.
        
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        October 8, 2023 5:21pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        We all vote for the lesser evil.
        
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        October 8, 2023 6:27pm
  - ecco
    
    How could they do anything being in opposition with a majority government in power?
    
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    October 8, 2023 9:15am
    - Keith White
      
      There is actually a lot they could have done during their time in opposition:
      
      1. record a solid, cohesive, 100% NO vote to the many examples of Labour being corrupt, stupid, incompetent, unlawful, or all of the above. this includes but is not limited to, the WuFlu-inspired lockdowns, the vaccine mandates, the lottery for the return of people entitled to be admitted to New Zealand by virtue of their passport but who were not allowed, charging people for quarantine hotels when we don’t even charge rapists and murderers for the costs of their detention and so on.
      
      2. Stop losing politely. Engage bluntly with the cretinous riffraff who engage in antiwhite racism on a regular basis, including but again not limited to the scribblefaces from the Stetson-Tophat party and the IwiTrougher party.
      
      3. Walk out of Parliament, all National MPs, whenever seriously corrupt and racist and contentious laws are passed, so that Labour cannot claim that “the opposition approved by default.”
      
      4. Get out and about in our community many months before the election, with a solid track record as outlined above, so that we don’t get the impression that they’re only making promises when they desperate for our votes.
      
      Of course, it’s too late now for National to grow a calcified vertebral column with an election a week away. So —
      
      5. Disengage with the trolling from the media or – preferably – go Full Metal Trumplike with Jessica and Tova and Tame etc. As someone famous once said “a man who will stand for nothing will stand for anything.” For example, Luxon & Co. could stand up and speak out at each every incident that shows how deeply the corrupt lying Labour / Green / Tribal bureaucratic and political establishment (but I repeat myself) is deeply racist and fostering medical apartheid; which is a literally daily event in New Zealand hospitals from what I hear from colleagues who are directly being told to triage the favoured ethnicity above and faster than others regardless of the problem afflicting the patient.
      
      That would be a really good start…
      
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      October 8, 2023 11:41am
      - Taieri
        
        Spot on Keith!
        
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        October 8, 2023 12:24pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Keith, whilst I have sympathy for each of your points, I read a few of your posts and I know you are clever enough to know why your suggestions haven’t been employed
        
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        October 8, 2023 1:25pm
      - ecco
        
        I’m talking about solid policy gains, not throwing your toys out of the cot when you don’t agree with the majority government.
        
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        October 8, 2023 3:11pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  I note no down votes
  
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  October 8, 2023 9:02am
  - Jethrod
    
    Be interesting who the 4 downtickers are at 1000 on your post G the G.?
    
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    October 8, 2023 10:01am
    - Jethrod
      
      That was a fairly innocuous comment, but you just had to downtick eh!
      
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      October 8, 2023 11:51am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Jethrod downtickers read your posts. It means you are getting your message to people who agree and disagree.
        
        And that is why we post!
        
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        October 8, 2023 1:36pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Mark Hanley – I’ll applaud them when they do it.
  
  I’ve had a gutsful of politicians promising the moon. The last few years in particular have led me to a dark place.
  I admire your optimism and if the new government manage to achieve what they set out to do I’ll be up there applauding them. They might even get a party member if the actually do what they say!
  
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  October 8, 2023 9:20am
  - Mark Hanley
    
    Clan. Without optimism, what do we have?
    
    By the way, keep beating the covid mass murder drum.
    
    And remember… for someone to claim they’re bored with your posts; they must be reading a lot of them.
    
    Which is why you write them!
    
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    October 8, 2023 1:29pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  IMHO the result will come down to two issues and in this order.
  1. Who gives Winston the best baubles.
  2. Whether Winston is prepared to work with ACT or the Maori Party.
  
  Despite what has been said Winston will work with the Nats and Labour/Greens.
  So again as in 2017 a Party that 93% didnt vote for will decide who governs.
  And thats one reason I voted against MMP. Since 1996 we have seen minor parties defeat the policies the two major parties have campaigned on and seen minor parties get to implement policies that the vast majority didnt vote for.
  Despite the deniers it is the tail wagging the dog. Think Winstons $3 Billion Provincial Growth Fund. The Auditor General said there was no accountability and no trace of where most of the funding went. He just stopped short of describing it as fraud and corruption.
  Winston will no doubt come up with other hair brained wastes of tax payers money.
  You have been warned.
  
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  October 8, 2023 9:32am
  - septic skeptic
    
    If they do a 3 way, I reckon Luxon will need to be very careful with Jones and any PGF2 slush fund. The MSM will be all over any ‘undeclared percieved conflicts of interest’. Last time they had more important issues to investigate, like who Cindy was hanging with and what sort of birthday cake Neve had. But this time they will be looking for any faults.
    
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    October 8, 2023 9:53am
- backster
  
  When John Key’s Government came to power it inherited the Great Financial Crisis, and had to deal with the Christchurch Earthquake. When Winston terminated that administration the Stock Exchange 50 was at 13500 and climbing and the $NZ was worth US74cents and almost parity with the Aussie Dollar. It had an international acknowledgement as a Rock Star Economy.Labour has brought us down to SE50 now 11300 and the Kiwi $ only worth 57cUS and about 90cAU.
  
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  October 8, 2023 10:21am
- lastmanstanding
  
  I see Luxon is trying to frighten the horses with a hung Parliament and another election. It wont work. Winston will go with either the Nats or Labour and one of them will go with him. If any of them refuse they will be severely punished in another election. Citizens wont stand for any bullshit.
  As I posted earlier it will come down to whoever offers Winston the best baubles and whether he wants to work with ACT or the Maori Party.
  
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  October 8, 2023 11:57am
- rjay
  
  None of which will happen due to a handbrake.
  
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  October 8, 2023 12:32pm
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  Enough of the gaslighting already. The “negativity” about the Nats has little to do with the last 6 years. Its mostly about what the Nats themselves did – and didn’t do – last time they were in power, and about their current woke positions on all too many issues.
  
  I do believe Luxon will make a better PM than Key, but that is faint praise. Kiwis should let their local Nats candidates know what they think of the party’s wet, woke stance. Unless ACT or NZF have the numbers to force Luxon’s hand, we will get a business-friendly version of LINO that beds in much of LINO’s recent policy.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:25am
Warren

Iwi planning new Supermarket Chain with 20 to 30 stores to challenge duopoly.
https://www.thepost.co.nz/a/business/350085825/iwi-planning-new-supermarket-chain-20-30-stores-challenge-duopoly
While this would be good for our Grocery trade and the public you would hope that there have not been promises made to Maori that other businesses around New Zealand are not entitled to.
You could bet your bottom dollar that the Government Grant Robertson and Prime Minister Chris Hipkins would be at the table promising more than is needed to achieve better prices in the grocery market.
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October 8, 2023 8:01am
- 7kiwi11
  
  And no doubt that if it doesn’t work out there will be a government backed bailout available.
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:12am
  - cmm
    
    Taxpayer backed.
    
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    October 8, 2023 2:09pm
  - coge
    
    It won’t work. Against experienced, long established corporate supermarkets.
    
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    October 8, 2023 6:13pm
- Tricati
  
  Will they pay tax like other non-Maori businesses in NZ
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:13am
  - Damocles11
    
    No.
    
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    October 8, 2023 9:57am
- kevn
  
  Warren.. Any thoughts on how much it will be subsidized or tribal tax free status?
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:15am
- imalwaysright
  
  Warren
  
  The public will pay the bills and the iwi will empty the tills.
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:32am
- Dougal10
  
  How are iwi going to deal with loaded trolly theft . Send an invoice to the social welfare dept!
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:32am
  - Taieri
    
    How are iwi going to deal with loaded trolly theft
    ————
    
    Perhaps in the traditional way. With mere…
    
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    October 8, 2023 9:35am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Taiaha? Both?
      
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      October 8, 2023 9:47am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  If they don’t make a profit, the profit will paid by the Govt (Net Taxpayer.)
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:35am
- artemisia
  
  About 10 years ago Ngai Tahu and Tainui bought large bus company Go Bus. There was quite a bit of talk at the time about charitable tax status putting the enterprise on a better footing than other operators. Maybe there was no ‘better footing’ (unlikely) or there was and it didn’t work out as planned as company has now been sold.
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:35am
  - Ra Henare
    
    Just a bit of mis information there artmisia or should that be Greek Queen of misinformation.
    
    The facts are always interesting.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_Bus_Transport
    
    Seems to me that the Maori executives made an astute decision
    
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    October 8, 2023 5:52pm
    - artemisia
      
      What misinformation, exactly?
      
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      October 8, 2023 7:25pm
- Ruawai
  
  Lsbour would happily spend 5 billion dollars of taxpayer money to save the taxpayer 1 billion.
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:41am
- Inandout
  
  Warren, I would expect those free loaders who take out trolleys without paying would be stopped by iwi security. If not then koha would rule.
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:44am
- Nickc2
  
  Kind of gives ‘Shoplifting’ a change of emphasis, doesn’t it?
  Ramraids, theft, and stabbings in Supermarkets may become things of the past.
  
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  October 8, 2023 9:05am
- ecco
  
  Laughable that Labour is saying there is no competition in the grocery sector in NZ. Have they not noticed Costco in the Auckland area lately? Because of Costco prices are visibly cheaper in Auckland supermarkets, not to mention petrol prices as well around the Costco area.
  
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  October 8, 2023 9:18am
  - artemisia
    
    Then there is the Warehouse, would have got a grocery boost from media reports on the Sanitarium misstep. AKA anticompetitive.
    
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    October 8, 2023 10:11am
  - miltonF
    
    Costco appears to be having a strong competitive effect. The supermarket prices in Auckland appear to be much better than the rest of the country. Now we just need a Costco in all of the major city centres.
    
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    October 8, 2023 3:38pm
    - MCōs
      
      Costco, which requires a $60 annual subscription, may be in Auckland, but it’s 25km from our house in Mangere Bridge
      
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      October 8, 2023 4:33pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Quite an incredible feat, them getting established in NZ. Make the most of it while it lasts. They seem to be good for some things but not so much for others. Here in Aus they tend to offer the cheapest fuel as well. I’d say travelling the 25km and loading up with cheap long lasting items is probably worth it, especially if you can divide the stuff up with others chipping in.
        
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        October 8, 2023 5:46pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  This is all very well, but where do they think they will get their products from? Where will distribution be, where will the 100s of millions to build shops come from?
  
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  October 8, 2023 9:18am
- Terry Dalee
  
  And I’ll be activately boycotting such a supermarket chain….
  
  Pay normal company tax like every other non Maori company…
  
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  October 8, 2023 4:53pm
krazykiwi

An interesting history read: How paper money turns governments into predators. It looks at the Chinese Song dynasty of 1000 years ago.
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October 8, 2023 8:01am
- miltonF
  
  Fiat money is an abomination. It is a complete affront to human rights. Without fiat currency there would be no inflation. Only deflation. Like taxes, inflation is a form of theft.
  
  Let’s say you’ve been working and saving for a house deposit for 10yrs. You’re half way there. Then the govt decides to inflate the currency by 50% along with house prices. Now you only have 25% of the required house deposit. The govt just stole half of your house deposit. Now play this out over decades…
  
  It’s a form of slavery really, innit? It also empowers the govt while disempowering individuals. Why do we allow it?
  
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  October 8, 2023 3:51pm
Vinicius

Are National conceding that they may not win an unloseable election in an article in the NZ Herald today?

The Herald reports that National’s campaign chair Chris Bishop said there was a scenario in which the left and right blocs got 60 seats all – “that chance is a real one and growing.”

In my view the National campaign has been too much playing not to lose instead of going for the opponents jugular from the start. Part of it to me is Luxon has done a solid job but his lack of political experience is now showing. The first thing he needs to do in the 1News leaders debate this week is deal with Hipkins if he starts butting in and yapping like a toy dog with rabies.

National and ACT probably should have had this wrapped up by now bearing in mind they’re up against the worst governing party in a lifetime and possibly in NZ’s history.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-national-warns-very-real-possibility-of-no-deal-with-nz-first-sending-voters-back-to-the-polls/SEDJLYGOEVHV5DABMIJQZV3JQ4/
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October 8, 2023 8:02am
- Drone
  
  I agree Vinicius, not so much Luxon who is inexperienced but let down by the rest of the National team who seem to have been sat on their butts while the MSM and the Left slaughtered them. Maybe New Zealanders feel that every government deserves three terms irrespective of how bad they are..
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:09am
- kowtow
  
  Speaking of which the cartoon , as usual , is an attack on Luxon and Nat’s tax cuts , featuring him with a Pinochio nose and a caption impugning his honesty and integrity .
  
  Through these dark and dangerous 6 years how many times was Ardern thus portrayed , given the ample opportunidies .
  
  Our te media pahti , holding the Opposition to account , bought and paid for with our money by Labour , but so very cheaply sold by that industry which has no honesty or integrity itself.
  
  Another example would be the childish ,soft Loydd Burr guitar interview with the guy who doesn’t like democracy .
  
  Where’s the outrage.
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:15am
- Tricati
  
  Luxon needs to rip into Hipkins over Labour’s co-governance agenda, and when did labour campaign on it.
  Attack Labour on being the anti-democracy party, as there’s a truck load of examples Luxon could use, but unfortunately I don’t think Luxon/National have the backbone to have a crack.
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:18am
  - peterwn
    
    Chris Luxon would have given very careful consideration to this. He would have judged (correctly in my opinion) that campaigning on co-governance would have been counterproductive and would have caused a backlash to National’s detriment. I do not think either major party wanted co-governance to be a forefront election issue.
    
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    October 8, 2023 8:38am
    - JJ56
      
      Yep, anyone for whom Co-governance is a decider won’t be voting Labour. Just enough of a nod nod wink wink from the Nats is enough.
      
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      October 8, 2023 9:16am
    - septic skeptic
      
      Hard to see how co-governance could be a net loss to BOTH sides?? One clue is Labour did not campaign on it in 2017, and have not this time either. Unfortunately I suspect there is a more fundamental reason National don’t attack co-governance.
      Regardless, the campaign has been lack-lustre, National have obviously decided the election was won and could only be lost by them in the campaign. This combined with Seymour stumbling in his campaign might make this far closer than it should be and probably result in an unstable 3 way with Winston First.
      
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      October 8, 2023 10:07am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Luxon needs to HTFU all round. This is not a game of just beating Labour, this is for real.
    Grow a pair.
    
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    October 8, 2023 8:43am
  - kowtow
    
    I suspect they’ve been advised or focus grouped into not being perceived as running a negative campaign , as the media would hold them to account and the soft centre idiot swing voter would go back to sweetness and light , kind Labour.
    
    It’s almost a lose lose situation now for the centre right while the media get to actually dictate the terms of how we’re governed .
    
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    October 8, 2023 8:43am
- peterwn
  
  “National and ACT probably should have had this wrapped up by now”. Easier said than done when having to deal with a hostile media emboldened by $55M grants from the Labour government.
  Chris Luxon and his team has given things their best shot and this is well illustrated by Chris Luxon by being top in recent preferred leader polls.
  Then there is the added problem that people are being led to think that NZ will not do a deal with Labour (as in 2017!). So some voters who do not want Labour will vote Winston to keep National ‘honest’. In reality Winston will chose whoever offers the most lollies in post election talks.
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:25am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Pete,
    
    Don’t forget the Electoral Commission managing to close 300 rural voting booths on Election day !
    
    This surely must be illegal.
    
    https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/10/06/some-rural-voters-caught-out-by-election-day-polling-booth-closures/
    
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    October 8, 2023 8:42am
    - Vinicius
      
      The EC are still advertising for election workers for 27 electorates less than a week to election day. It is obvious they’re having issues.
      
      Not a good look.
      
      https://work.elections.nz/search/page/1?search=
      
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      October 8, 2023 9:03am
      - pdm
        
        Vin – difficult to understand when they have about 200,000 unemployed (including jobseeker) to pick from.
        
        23 1
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        October 8, 2023 9:22am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Vin,
        
        They are vetting applicants according to their knowledge of the treaty of waitangi.
        Something stinks.
        
        27 1
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        October 8, 2023 9:27am
      - MCōs
        
        Just because someone is unemployed doesn’t mean they are suitable to work as election workers
        
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        October 8, 2023 4:43pm
      - Ghost
        
        Weird that people are upvoting pdm
        
        Do you people seriously want someone on jobseekers being involved with your votes
        
        I don’t
        
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        October 8, 2023 4:52pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Two members of my family, upstanding citizens both, are still waiting to hear back regarding their applications for polling booth jobs.
        
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        October 8, 2023 5:44pm
- Dougal10
  
  At least Bishop knows nz1 is a left wing party unlike his leader and a bunch of finger crossing nzers.
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:38am
  - Vinicius
    
    I’m retired and am rather ashamed to admit that many of Peters supporters are from my generation. Pity they don’t seem to know any better.
    
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    October 8, 2023 9:30am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Another Election will be very expensive but if that is what it takes to rid NZ of Winston then let’s do it.
  I doubt Labour, Greens, NZF, and Maori could afford the campaigning for another Election anyway. It could be the best way, send the bastards broke!
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:47am
  - pdm
    
    Steve – Labour have only Union funding as I understand it so they are near broke too.
    
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    October 8, 2023 9:23am
    - Vinicius
      
      Still got their biased media friends to help them.
      
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      October 8, 2023 9:37am
  - Damocles11
    
    Sir Bob Jones will step up with more money to keep Labour going. What an easy mark he is.
    
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    October 8, 2023 10:01am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  If Luxon had ruled Winston out early, the msm would have slaughtered him for not being open to moderate and centrist influences while in govt as a counterbalance to the extremism of ACT
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:55am
  - JJ56
    
    The decision from the Nats came when he’d made 5%, both Parties ruling him out would have given him even more media attention.
    
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    October 8, 2023 9:19am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Seymour ruled Peters out, how did that work out? I note he is no longer ruling him out, Luxon I think was right not to rule Peters out
      
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      October 8, 2023 10:24am
  - septic skeptic
    
    What extremism?
    
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    October 8, 2023 10:10am
  - MCōs
    
    Luxon painted himself into a corner by dithering so long.
    Personally I’m still picking he’ll be PM and there’s no way there will be another election. Winston won’t upset the Apple cart , but ACT can forget getting any action on their more radical policies. Neither will NZF of course
    
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    October 8, 2023 4:53pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Bishop is putting NZF on both sides suggesting 60 seats each, not sure how that roils work because NZF can only go one way or the other
  
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  October 8, 2023 9:20am
  - peterwn
    
    Latest polls signal Nat+ACT 58 Lab+Green+Maori+NZF 62. On this basis Winston can choose the Government.
    If Nat+ACT get 61 seats (ie 3 more than polls indicate) Winston is out in the cold.
    Labour+Green would need to win 8 more seats than polls indicate to knock Winston out of the picture. This is a big ask.
    
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    October 8, 2023 10:03am
  - Michael Johnston
    
    I’m sure he’s talking about a scenario in which Lab+Grn+TPM+NZF and Nat+Act get 60 seats each. There’s no plausible scenario in which Lab+Grn+TPM will get 60 seats between them.
    
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    October 8, 2023 10:15am
  - Mrs_Right
    
    National warns ‘very real possibility’ of no-deal with NZ First, sending voters back to the polls.
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-national-warns-very-real-possibility-of-no-deal-with-nz-first-sending-voters-back-to-the-polls/SEDJLYGOEVHV5DABMIJQZV3JQ4/
    
    How would the election look if that happened?
    
    Peters needs to know that if he gets around 5% then his demands need to be in line with the %. Holding NZ to ransom every 3 years is not MMP.
    
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    October 8, 2023 12:54pm
- ecco
  
  Maybe Nats should stand the Ilam candidate aside if there is a likelihood of Top winning that seat. Not sure if it’s too late. TOP would bring 2% of the vote with him. Manji is open to that and sounds like a better option than Peters. That’s what Manji said on Plunket’s interview with him. Might be enough to get the centre right, sans NZF, over the line.
  
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  October 8, 2023 9:23am
  - Damocles11
    
    TOP are another Left wing outfit. Stand aside, let them in, watch their party vote swell, watch them go into coalition with Labour.
    
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    October 8, 2023 10:03am
    - septic skeptic
      
      Do they still want to tax “unproductive” assets like your own house, batch and boat? IIRC Morgan’s ideas were only slightly right of Green and TPM tax policy.
      
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      October 8, 2023 10:14am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Why gift TOP seats in Parliament when they have nothing in common with National? It’s the most absurd suggestion. Hamish Campbell will romp home in Ilam; he’s knocked on as many doors as any National MP or candidate and will become a very good local MP.
    
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    October 8, 2023 10:17am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    And what the hell would that do? Don’t try and tell me the TOP are going right, they are more aligned to the left
    
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    October 8, 2023 10:28am
  - ecco
    
    Ok point noted! I guess there’s no guarantee what anyone with the balance of power would do until after the election.
    
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    October 8, 2023 3:17pm
SmokerGuy

Struggle to understand why people think voting NZ First will do anything to progress New Zealand. With all of the problems facing this country, what makes people think a 3 way coalition between National, ACT and NZ First will resolve our problems? I feel very despondent about the prospects for New Zealand, I been overseas in Europe the last 2 weeks and it just illustrated to me how angry and backwards this country is at the moment.
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October 8, 2023 8:08am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  We started going backwards 6 years ago with the introduction of the evil Ardern.
  She had been planning this downfall since 2009.
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:49am
  - SmokerGuy
    
    Yeah but why can’t people see we need stability rather than a coalition of 3 parties that hate each other? What do NZ voter’s really hope to achieve by voting for them? I get that they are targeting the anti vax vote but look at them as a whole, there’s nothing good that’ll happen by having them in a coalition. What has Winston ever achieved for NZ? It’s concerning
    
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    October 8, 2023 8:56am
    - Lenticular
      
      Inflicting Winston Peters on Luxon and Seymour says, “You really need to reconsider this whole ‘We can spit in your face because Labour does it more often” in one of the few ways that they understand.
      It’s an effective riposte to “Well, it’s us or Labour, suck it up”.
      
      I’m voting for a minor party that won’t get in because the Bible commands us not to use evil to do good, but my secular conservative friends prefer the schadenfreude.
      
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      October 8, 2023 9:30am
      - SmokerGuy
        
        That’s a really infantile way to behave actually. So basically they’re saying ‘let’s fuck the country to make a point’. Why not move somewhere else if that’s the attitude? I can’t understand why someone would vote for a party not because they like their policies, but to protest. Just don’t vote FFS
        
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        October 8, 2023 10:06am
      - Ghost
        
        Infantile for people to vote for a politician who is saying what they want to hear? Or infantile to vote for a party you don’t believe in and people to attack you for it? People need to pull up their grown up pants and respect people voting for the party they believe in and not the party people are pressuring them to vote for.
        
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        October 8, 2023 10:18am
      - SmokerGuy
        
        Ghost I don’t begrudge or criticise someone for voting in a party they believe in or whose policies they like. But to vote purely as an F’you without even caring about their policies? That’s pretty pathetic, it’s taking democracy for granted.
        
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        October 8, 2023 10:57am
      - Ghost
        
        It’s a vote for a politician that is listening to them, whether he is doing it to get votes or genuine no one will ever know. But the others aren’t listening to them, are disregarding what they have to say. I have more respect for people who are voting for what they believe in than people who vote red and blue every election no matter what the policies are.
        
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        October 8, 2023 11:07am
      - Lenticular
        
        @SmokerGuy Not at all, it’s a rational long term strategy.
        Saying enough is enough and that we won’t vote for wet woke faux conservatives has resulted in genuine conservative governments in Austria, Italy, Hungary, Poland, the Czech Republic, coalitions in Sweden (!!) and Finland, and major gains in France, Spain, the Netherlands, and Belgium.
        PS You’re obviously irritated by our strategy; that’s evidence that it may work.
        
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        October 8, 2023 6:48pm
      - SmokerGuy
        
        Ok lenticular fair enough but answer me this, do you believe NZ First’s policies will help New Zealand? Do you think Winston has done anything good for this country over the decades he has been in parliament? Or so guy just vote because he supposedly ‘cares’ about what you think? The only person Winston cares about is himself.
        
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        October 8, 2023 9:23pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    S.O
    
    To be fair, ardern couldn’t plan a ham sandwich , she’d put the bread in the middle .
    
    The IQ’s of nearly all of the current government are double figures and I would suggest none of them has ever been involved in writing legislation .
    
    These are clearly a group of useful idiots whose only purpose is to provide a public face of a government controlled by unelected interests .
    
    Ardern was basically a sales rep who was sacked when the sales figures dropped.
    
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    October 8, 2023 9:38am
- Lenticular
  
  It’s a protest vote. I will never vote NZF, but this is how it works:
  
  We said, “National, ACT, help us! We’ve been made into second class citizens for not getting the jab!”.
  
  National said, “To Hades with you, it’s us or Labour, lol”.
  
  We said, “National, ACT, help! The state now dictates that I can’t counsel my 12 year old boy not to cut his dick off or not to take drugs that leave him with a micropenis for life!”
  
  National said, “To Hades with you, it’s us or Labour, lol”
  
  We said, “National, ACT, help us! We’re getting arrested for holding a sign protesting abortion 75 metres away from a hospital!”
  
  National said, “To Hades with you fullstop, dinosaurs like you need to die out as quickly as possible. Lol.”.
  
  Now National and ACT have come to us and said, “You know we didn’t *mean* all those things we said, or to exclude all your priorities from policy. Help us!”.
  
  And we said…..
  
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  October 8, 2023 9:22am
  - Damocles11
    
    Nobody cares about a ‘protest vote’. If we end up with a far Left government pushing through radical wealth taxes and ‘Te Tiriti’ madness, you and those like you will to be blame for your inability to be pragmatic.
    
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    October 8, 2023 10:09am
    - SmokerGuy
      
      Absolutely spot on Damo!
      
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      October 8, 2023 10:58am
    - Lenticular
      
      @Damocles That entirely depends on how much protest vote there is. 3 years in opposition is plenty to ponder on how you missed out on 5 to 10% of voters.
      
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      October 8, 2023 11:11am
    - Tom Hunter
      
      If we end up with a far Left government pushing through radical wealth taxes and ‘Te Tiriti’ madness, you and those like you will to be blame for your inability to be pragmatic.
      
      Meh. As I’ve repeatedly said here I’ll be voting National electorate and ACT Party vote (although I swear some of the shit I see from both makes me waver in my heart at times).
      
      But I think they’re just a holding action on those two things you mention (plus others) until 2029 or 2032. Which means that come 2038 or 2041 (assuming we’re both still here) you’ll be telling me I need to be pragmatic about keeping the new wealth taxes low and ‘Te Tiriti’ “contained”.
      
      It’s like this piece of humor, 2040’s Republican:
      
      “Jesus was obviously trans but he wasn’t a necrophile you libtard”
      
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      October 8, 2023 1:25pm
    - mawm
      
      Damo – there you go again – vote for us because we are not the other guys.
      
      Stop making excuses for such poor policies and a poor campaign. It’s not the media, it’s not keeping the powder dry, it’s not we can’t frighten the horses, it’s not we can’t address such and such a problem because polling, etc. It comes down to policies and personalities that voters want to support.
      
      The country is going in the wrong direction. After the Ardern disaster the electorate is wanting a change. This is evidenced by the number of new parties that have sprung up offering single issue policies. Each one of them is draining votes. Winston the Wiley has come up with a whole load of them in his policy announcement. These have been obvious to most of us but were handed to him on a platter.
      
      National and ACT unfortunately have themselves to blame. I have been a Tory voter my whole life, and now I just do not want to vote for a bunch of representatives who are making no effort to address the elephants in the room, but instead will fiddle around the edges to run the country better. This is depressing. What a lost opportunity.
      
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      October 8, 2023 3:09pm
      - Damocles11
        
        You are one of these people who is absolutely in denial about the state of this country.
        
        Whinge, whinge, whinge because the Right are trying to do something that has never been attempted before, to win an election after over 50% of voters voted for Labour in the last one.
        
        The amount of nonsense I read on here about how everyone will get in behind Luxon if he only speaks up, we need a ‘New Zealand version of Trump but Winstons too old’, Luxon can denounce man-made climate change as fiction, can radically remake abortion laws, chop benefits, stick the Treaty back in its box, start pointing at the media and going ‘fake news’….you are all totally deluded. National would get about 10% of the vote and Labour would stay in for ever.
        
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        October 8, 2023 8:16pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Well people say they hate Luxon, Luxon his self says NZ is backwards, he is successful in turning around bankrupt companies, remembering that Unilever was bankrupt before he took over to revive its fortunes, Unilever employed 90000 people when he was at the helm, just perhaps he can fix this wounded nation
  
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  October 8, 2023 9:22am
  - All_on_Red
    
    ‘90,000 people’
    
    Luxon ran Unilever Canada, which employed 1500 people
    
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    October 8, 2023 9:57am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Well from what I read he moved up to lead the whole global company, he has worked out of 4 seperate countries as leader, and I have read that company employs 90000
      
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      October 8, 2023 10:33am
  - Lenticular
    
    Unilever is woke as hell.
    
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    October 8, 2023 6:50pm
- Burtland
  
  whats to understand … NZ is a ship load of fools being lead around by opportunist polli’s and socialist media
  
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  October 8, 2023 9:31am
- Damocles11
  
  Winston “talked to the protestors”. Luxon and Seymour haven’t issued grovelling apologies for the COVID horror show that Labour and NZF inflicted on us. And remember again: Winston “talked to the protestors”.
  That is all.
  
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  October 8, 2023 10:06am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Peters was not a politician at the time, he did not go for weeks, he spent 20 minutes and went to the pub, Peters was foreign minister that banned NZers from returning home, snd when people became I’ll they could not visit dying family members,, he was deputy pm who locked us in our houses, and it is a lie they all voted, the vote was cabinet only
    
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    October 8, 2023 10:39am
  - Rusty
    
    @Damocles
    
    Correct. Haven’t heard anything from Luxon and Seymour during the campaign on how Labour conducted the covid response and whether it was good, bad, or different.
    
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    October 8, 2023 11:04am
    - Damocles11
      
      Yeah, and I’m saying it’s ridiculous to vote for someone because he went and “talked to the protestors”.
      
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      October 8, 2023 11:50am
      - mawm
        
        I see but it’s ok to vote NACT because they didn’t talk to the protestors.
        
        4 1
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        October 8, 2023 3:19pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        No, it’s what he’s said since then. Taking to the protesters was a small but important part of why some people are looking to him.
        
        Whether you believe him or not is irrelevant. He’s the only one speaking out for a substantial number of innocent citizens who were physically, financially and mentally damaged by a government for standing for bodily autonomy.
        
        The opposition apparently don’t give a shit about them, yet you’re surprised they might vote for Peters?
        
        Clearly they’ve decided they’ll get much more support with this approach than that would by doing the right thing. Their call.
        
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        October 8, 2023 4:53pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Damocles11 – an apology would be nice but I’ve certainly never asked for one. Just acknowledgment.
    
    One thing really perturbs me. Why are NACT not battering Labour asking why up to 11,000 health care workers were given jab exemptions? Including admin staff?
    
    Who signed off on that, while people with genuine issues or damage from the first jab were point blank refused one?
    
    Surely this is one thing we could all agree on, that this was totally unfair and stinks of nepotism?
    
    Why would chair polishers without health issues be eligible for this exemption but those in genuine need were brutally declined?
    
    Is this not a noble battle that Seymour or Luzon could run with to show those most harmed in the last three years, that someone actually cares about them?
    
    The political and media silence around this smacks of something underhand.
    
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    October 8, 2023 4:36pm
- septic skeptic
  
  That’s not how it works though. Nobody chooses X seat NAT, Y seats LAB, Z seats ACT etc. People vote Winston because they buy his snake oil, or they just like the guy. You can’t ascribe collective intent to the result of an election. It’s not the voters choice, it’s the RESULT of adding all the individual choices of one best party. I concede there is some limited tactical voting.
  
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  October 8, 2023 10:22am
igm

So government-funded “Stuff” now are required to take into account gangs in their political coverage.
Good to see Labour have taxpayers’ interests at heart!
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October 8, 2023 8:08am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  I was wondering whether Stuff have “cancelled” Damien Grant in the runup to the election? No columns for 2 weeks now
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:36am
  - Damocles11
    
    A new Damien Grant column is out this morning –
    
    https://i.stuff.co.nz/opinion/300983910/hipkins-in-isolation-as-the-nation-moves-on-from-covid-without-him
    
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    October 8, 2023 10:12am
    - kiwikidsnz
      
      Thanks, I’d missed it; wasn’t in the usual “perspectives” place.
      
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      October 8, 2023 11:02am
- kowtow
  
  $1uffed should be ashamed of themselves .
  Particularly given their past #metooism , the large number of women who run and are employed there and yet they promote the most misogynistic and violent phenomena in our society.
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:47am
Yvette

National candidate says local co-governance not a target
National’s New Plymouth election candidate says regional and local co-governance arrangements would not be at risk if his party wins next weekend – but his opponents aren’t reassured.
… But MacLeod did not expect National to change Te Mana o Te Wai, which requires local authorities to actively involve tangata whenua in freshwater management, including decision-making and setting policies and plans.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/10/07/national-candidate-says-local-co-governance-not-a-target/

Has David MacLeod read Thomas Cranmer’s “The Unbridled Power of Te Mana o te Wai”? –
https://www.thedailyexaminer.co.nz/the-unbridled-power-of-te-mana-o-te-wai/

Is Te Mana o te Wai at the very heart of what Labour has already embedded in law, and already established in reality: Government bodies centred on Te Ao Maori – on the Maori world view, despite New Zealand Government supposedly being secular not treating any religious minority view, to have Arian superiority over all others?

■ Will Christopher Luxon reprimand David MacLeod or defend him?
■ Will David Seymour and / or Winston Peters go nuts over David MacLeod’s remark?
■ Will the matter of Maori-only Te Mana o Te Wai statements be dropped as a bomb-shell question in Thursday evening’s Last Leaders Debate?
■ Or will it all fade away – like two shits passing in the night?
_____________________
Te Puna (the Māori Advisory Group) was established under the Taumata Arowai–the Water Services Regulator Act 2020 and was appointed by the Acting Minister of Local Government on 20 May 2021. Te Puna is chaired by Tipa Mahuta.
https://www.taumataarowai.govt.nz/about/our-team/maori-advisory-group/
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October 8, 2023 8:08am
- DeepBlue
  
  Te Mana o Wai exists and is quite different to the Te Mana o Wai Statements in 3 Waters.
  
  This is a classic case of Te Reo Maori having limited words and causing confusion by not using English. In this case I believe the confusion is intentional I.e. it works here already, don’t worry about it for 3Waters. McNaulty said as much when not wanting to debate the TMOW Ststements.
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:49am
  - Yvette
    
    Te Mana o Wai exists and is quite different to the Te Mana o Wai Statements in 3 Waters.
    
    Why is there a Maori Advisory Council to the water regulator, Taumata Arowai, and not an Islamic, Hindu, Pacific Island or Christian advisory council?
    And why does the Water Regulator have the name Taumata Arowai, and on it’s website display a Maori worldview, content and presentation with little other ethnic recognition other – than the English it is written in?
    And if the Treaty of Waitangi is the nation’s founding document, where apart from the article 3 term “British subjects” does it refer to the majority (83%) of the New Zealand population?
    Wai?
    
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    October 8, 2023 9:42am
    - Keith White
      
      “Why is there a Maori Advisory Council to the water regulator, Taumata Arowai, and not an Islamic, Hindu, Pacific Island or Christian advisory council?”
      
      Troughers, tribal backhanders, and tribalist me-and-mine-get-paid-firsters.
      
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      October 8, 2023 9:53am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  NZ First & ACT have more in common on law & order, co-governance and no race-based policies than it seems National does…
  
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  October 8, 2023 9:17am
  - Michael Johnston
    
    The difference is that Seymour says what he believes and will earnestly try to get as much of that done as he can. Winston says whatever he thinks will deliver the baubles and, having secured them, will quietly forget about all that hard stuff.
    
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    October 8, 2023 10:23am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  He is talking about two different things
  
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  October 8, 2023 9:24am
Biscuit

What chances of the Just Stop Oil mob interfering with the Bathurst 1000 today?

Depriving up to 200,000 sunbaked, booze (or worse!)-addled petrolheads of their Big Day Out? What COULD go wrong…
22 2
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October 8, 2023 8:11am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  They might get a hiding. The Bathurst crown don’t like being fucked around.
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:26am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Glue them to the front bumpers for the entire race
    
    9 0
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    October 8, 2023 8:48am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Now there’s a great thought. The sound of a V8 all bloody day!!
      
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      October 8, 2023 10:32am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Could be more fun than the race LOL!
    
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    October 8, 2023 8:54am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  What could go wrong? Getting hit by SVG at his record 300km/h achieved in qualifying
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:38am
- peterwn
  
  I trust they will take the electric train to Lithgow then the bus to Bathurst to minimise oil consumption (but then the electricity for the trains comes from coal at Mt Piper power station etc).
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:42am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It is probably not even worth trying to convince them of those facts.
    
    9 1
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    October 8, 2023 8:55am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Hahahahaga, I hope they glue their hands at the top of mount Panorama
  
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  October 8, 2023 9:26am
Bridgenag

☕️ UNPREPARED ☙ Saturday, October 7, 2023 ☙ C&C NEWS 🦠
Israel war overnight news roundup; SADS covid child actor; SADS air traffic controller and new SADS media euphemism; Ladapo says jabs aren’t safe products; study shows trans risks; Trump stay; more.

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/unprepared-saturday-october-7-2023?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
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October 8, 2023 8:14am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  One downtick, just because Trump was mentioned?
  Childish, back to mummy’s bed for you.
  
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  October 8, 2023 9:04am
- Bridgenag
  
  Hello Just the news here people!
  
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  October 8, 2023 12:44pm
Bridgenag

Global News Round-up – The Green Hysteria
You can’t fix stupid. And propaganda-driven mass formation/psychosis/hypnosis is a real thing.

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/global-news-round-up-the-green-hysteria?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
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October 8, 2023 8:14am
3-coil

Had drinks last night with old lefty mates down in Wellington, and ended up reminiscing about some of the protests we went to (my uni days 😂).
They’re rusted-on tribal Labour, but were blinkered blindly defensive when I taunted them about voting this election for “more of the same” ie. the first government to fire rubber bullets into a crowd of NZ citizen protesters. I had to drop it for the sake of the evening’s conviviality, but hell they got stupidly super-defensive trying to redefine what Labour govt had done (just a few hundred metres from where we were sitting)…seems it was a VERY inconvenient truth!
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October 8, 2023 8:15am
- Dougal10
  
  The rubber bullet thing was a disgusting show of state power, I guess that is why cindy and trevor are now overseas .
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:43am
  - 3-coil
    
    Dougal10 (8:43am) – exactly!
    Another glass ceiling smashed by Jacinda: first NZ Prime Minister to spray her protester/citizens with rubber bullets!! Yay, go Cindy…yeah you were tough, nah maybe not – evidently doesn’t look quite so cool on her CV now after everyone else has cooled down. She doesn’t seem to want to even acknowledge it happened…🤔
    
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    October 8, 2023 1:54pm
- ecco
  
  I’ve got a few friends in Welly like that too. I surmised their $100k, 9-5pm government jobs do that to them. Not surprising that Wellington Central is 70 Labour/Greens supporters. Kinda glad I got outta the place…
  
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  October 8, 2023 9:25am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Hahahaha, Bishop posted he has two blue ticks from a unionist head
  
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  October 8, 2023 9:28am
- NZer In Exile
  
  3-coil: : “I had to drop it for the sake of the evening’s conviviality, but hell they got stupidly super-defensive”
  
  Been there, done that. Any of them go bright red, get a fat vein in their neck and start yelling at you? When people do that you know they are part of a cult.
  
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  October 8, 2023 5:30pm
oldpark

NZ once a Democratic Paradise. Now under the Ardern/Hipkins Regime a fools Paradise or a Paradise run by fools .
As the Labour Government ship starts to sink with people swimming away from it .
A quip from Hipkins with and a dubious spring in his step aided and abetted by NZs bribed Mainstream Media reporting that he had been mobbed at a so called night market in Auckland all staged to make him look like winning .Even though the polls say the opposite .
Seems after his Covid return he talked of winning .
Maybe Hallucinating he thought the people leaving Labours’ sinking ship were swimming towards it in fact who ever heard of anyone swimming towards a sinking ship .Making him a winner.
“Two Ticks Blue “.
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October 8, 2023 8:21am
- Philview
  
  His Covid break effectively gave him a 5 minute news conference every night on TVNZ news
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:39am
sirknz

Just going off the headline, my immediate take was “So they interviewed only one person for this?”…

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/133064688/election-2023-what-young-mum-gang-member-and-cyclone-victim-think-of-this-election
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October 8, 2023 8:21am
- Dougal10
  
  Everyone else probably told the reporter to eff off
  
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  October 8, 2023 8:46am
- Damocles11
  
  Looks like Hipkins has won Maori voters over. Hey, if a Turnip was Labour leader it would achieve the same outcome.
  
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  October 8, 2023 10:19am
krazykiwi

Utterly brilliant mashup: Greatest Schwabs, Volume 15.

Watched it three times and I’m still laughing.
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October 8, 2023 8:33am
- NZer In Exile
  
  Excellent.
  
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  October 8, 2023 5:35pm
Chuck Bird

Q + A should be interesting this morning.
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October 8, 2023 8:41am
- pdm
  
  Wh was on Chuck.
  
  I am watching Ireland at half pace dealing to a disappointing Scotland. This may be the longest game ever – 90 minutes is up and there are still about twenty minutes to play.
  
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  October 8, 2023 9:32am
  - Colville
    
    Ever who Scotlands attack coach is he needs a hard punch in the dick.
    They were dire, no variation at all, just looked like a league team.
    
    8 1
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    October 8, 2023 10:00am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Tame interviewed someone pro the Voice in Aust.
    After the interview, he said they tried to get someone from the other side. I bet he never asked Andrew Bolt.
    
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    October 8, 2023 10:33am
Maggy Wassilieff

Why our ethno-Universities and Research Institutions are in the poo

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/john-raine-david-lillis-and-peter-schwerdtfeger-universities-or-indoctrination-centres
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October 8, 2023 9:54am
- Benedict Yu
  
  If you had a child leaving school now I would be very reluctant to encourage attendance at a New Zealand university. Even 3 years ago I would not have made such a statement.
  
  If your child is an academic star and wants to do engineering or science, then maybe. But if your child wants to do “communications studies” or gender studies or politics, no. Also the only universities worth considering are Otago, Auckland, Canterbury or Lincoln. Victoria wrecked. Massey totally wrecked.
  
  If you had a child good at maths and physics and an interest in aviation, pilot training is a good option.
  
  If you have a child leaving school who is not an academic star, and they don’t know what they want to do, this is what I would do. Buy them a plane ticket to Perth. Give them $5000. After travelling and working in mines and cattle stations for two years they will have some money and it is very likely that they will have formed ideas about a career.
  
  My 2 cents worth. 🙂
  
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  October 8, 2023 10:21am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Get them into a trade. We will still need people who can operate a drill press with rotobroaches, operate metalworking lathes, guillotines, pressbrakes, MIG welding, TIG welding, stick welding, plasma cutting, gas axe cutting, brazing, bandsaws, cutoff saws, grinders. Basic metal fabrication. Sheet metal work. Electrical wiring. Motor mechanics. Spray painting. Many other things. Even exercise, putting 8 ton of steel in the rack by hand – every month.
    Wages are OK when you get the experience. For me it was the satisfaction of doing something I really liked doing.
    
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    October 8, 2023 10:52am
  - kevn
    
    BY… A very wealthy aquaintance sent their 2 girls to Australian Uni’s.
    
    11 0
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    October 8, 2023 10:54am
    - Taieri
      
      A very wealthy aquaintance sent their 2 girls to Australian Uni’s
      ———-
      
      There’s no shortage of nonsense at Australian universities.
      I should know, as I graduated from two of them.
      
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      October 8, 2023 12:31pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        There will be no nonsense at the National Taiwan University. They have many courses taught in English to attract overseas students. 🙂
        
        https://admissions.ntu.edu.tw/overseas-students/
        
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        October 8, 2023 4:47pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Yes, my daughter is coming up 14, very bright so still waiting to see what direction they will head in, but NZ Universities are not high on the list of preferred places if she goes down that path.
    
    The destruction done to this magnificent country, particularly in the last 3 years is next level.
    
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    October 8, 2023 10:59am
    - fightingtemeraire
      
      Get her to join the Aus or UK military as an Officer Cadet and go through Uni at their expense but with a “Return of Service” obligation.
      
      12 1
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      October 8, 2023 11:46am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        You need to be an Australian Citizen to join the Australian army, navy, or air force.
        
        6 0
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        October 8, 2023 12:01pm
      - rouppe
        
        @Ben… Didn’t a bunch on RNZAF pilots just walk into roles at RAAF when the strike wing was axed?
        
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        October 8, 2023 2:20pm
    - Bridgenag
      
      Think Singapore might be the best option. Safe as well
      
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      October 8, 2023 12:46pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        It’s definitely on the radar.
        
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        October 8, 2023 4:55pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    With two other kids with varsity degrees (one of which has turned out to be useless despite the hype) I told the youngest, who loves History and English, to forget it and do something else.
    
    Luckily he’d already come to that conclusion.
    
    And I have a contact at Mt Isa! 🙂 🙂
    
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    October 8, 2023 1:35pm
  - Dougal10
    
    Agree except for the otago uni bit , gone woke gone broke.
    
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    October 8, 2023 2:04pm
    - Gravelroad
      
      Some Otago University academic declared a week or so ago that the infected water supplies in Queenstown were due to sheep and other farmed animals pollution. We hate farmers stuff.
      Now it has been confirmed that it is actually human waste that caused the contamination.
      Havn’t seen any retraction of the original statement.
      There is very little truth or integrity left in many of these universities.
      
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      October 8, 2023 2:38pm
  - rouppe
    
    My son is going to Canterbury for first year engineering next year…
    
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    October 8, 2023 2:18pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    Interesting thoughts BY. Forget the Massey Aviation offerings. Way Way better to get a Commercial Licence via one of the many training options available. The Massy offering suffers the University problem of loading all sorts of bumf to pad out a Professional Pilot offering (ie they want more money from the hapless student).
    
    Re Mines etc. Lots of fly in fly out options in Queensland(Cairns based, closer to home)
    
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    October 8, 2023 6:02pm
- Yvette
  
  Why our ethno-Universities and Research Institutions are in the poo
  
  Two blatantly cherry-picked paragraphs –
  
  Embedding of the Treaty of Waitangi and matauranga Māori within our universities, and the wider research and innovation system, follows similar trends in education, public health and elsewhere. Government now proposes to favour Māori research and researchers over others [1]. New Zealand should support excellent Māori research, but within well defined standards and limits, as there is no sufficient justification for preferring lightweight research of limited reach over true excellence on a systemic basis.
  
  • The loss of at least part of our international student market if aspiring students perceive New Zealand universities to be ethnic universities where there is compulsion around engagement with Te Ao Māori and matauranga Māori.
  
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  October 8, 2023 10:29am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.
Maybe Elizabeth Rata got it wrong. The Principles Treaty she speaks of is a lie.
“Then we have an invented Treaty, a fraudulent Treaty, which is all about ‘the principles of the Treaty’.”
There are two Treaties, the 1840 one, and the rogue Waitangi Tribunal one
.
The Principles Treaty is an invented one.
https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/government-tries-to-tell-us-there-are-two-treaties-dont-swallow-the-lie/
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October 8, 2023 10:10am
ClanMcleod

Coming to NZ at some point.

Flip-Flopping and Turning Coats on an Evidence-Free Stage

The rats in the UK are turning on each other as the ship goes down.

Well, it now looks as if the grandees are turning against each other. Rishi Sunak, as we reminded our readers, stated to the Spectator that not even Cabinet Ministers were aware of the rationale for the toxic cocktail of evidence-free restrictions imposed on the nation.

Now, Sir Patrick Vallance, the Government’s Chief Scientific Adviser during Covid, is accusing politicians of cherry-picking the science. Apparently, the diary he kept will be produced at the Hallett Enquiry. So, whom do you believe?

https://dailysceptic.org/2023/10/05/flip-flopping-and-turning-coats-on-an-evidence-free-stage/

It’s the only thing NZ politicians have done well in the last few years, maintained a solid front in their denials of every negative outcome associated with covid. Maybe not a Team of Five Million, but certainly a Team of 120!

I wonder how long they will be able to maintain this solidarity?
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October 8, 2023 10:15am
- Tom Hunter
  
  I doubt that there was ever any discussion in the NZ cabinet about the costs of lockdowns, aside from the possible economic costs of shutting down businesses.
  
  As that article refers to Sunak himself admitted to all this months ago, NO! I want justice, apologies – and a measure of revenge:
  
  Rishi Sunak has said the government gave too much power to scientists during Covid lockdowns – and was not honest about the potential downsides.
  
  The Tory leadership contender and former chancellor told the Spectator ministers were banned from talking about the “trade-offs” involved… he said the negative impacts of lockdowns on society were “never part” of internal discussions, adding meetings were “literally me around that table, just fighting”. Ministers were also told not to discuss the potential downsides in interviews, he added.
  
  “The script was not to ever acknowledge them. The script was: ‘Oh there’s no trade-off, because doing this for our health is good for the economy.’”
  
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  October 8, 2023 1:44pm
ClanMcleod

Ardern’s place in history is assured, but it won’t be kind.

Here’s another UK blog post using the example of Ardern as a leftist tyrant to ridicule Rishi Sunak and his plan to ban smoking, just like Ardern.

That the idea has its origins in New Zealand – the country that locked itself down for nearly the longest time and refused to let its citizens come home, and requires Māori theory of creation to be taught in science lessons – should have raised a red flag.

https://dailysceptic.org/2023/10/04/rishi-sunaks-smoking-ban-is-straight-out-of-jacinda-arderns-health-authoritarian-playbook/
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October 8, 2023 10:22am
Truman lodge

Next week chippy will be PM with a Greens and Maori coalition. Then is rolled with mahuta as pm. The fix is in people.

We are entering a new phase of totalitarianism and Anglo subjugation None of you can see it.
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October 8, 2023 10:26am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Mahuta may be out on her derriere if the TPM lass gets in.
  
  4 0
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  October 8, 2023 1:23pm
  - Damocles11
    
    If TPM don’t win any electorate seats then they are out of Parliament. That is my preferred option.
    
    8 0
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    October 8, 2023 3:32pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Please, if there is a God that can be contacted, I pray, make this happen. 🙏
      
      5 0
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      October 8, 2023 5:38pm
- Gravelroad
  
  What does “the fix is in” mean?
  Please explain how this comes about.
  
  0 1
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  October 8, 2023 2:40pm
  - Truman lodge
    
    Gravelroad
    
    Fix means just that. Labour stay in power any means necessary.
    
    2 0
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    October 8, 2023 3:24pm
  - DimChappie
    
    It means the contest is rigged, I think it comes from racing/boxing betting.
    
    1 0
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    October 8, 2023 5:05pm
- Ghost
  
  Amazing, one poll with a slight bump for labour and a couple of people are off their rocker claiming a rigged election.
  
  2 0
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  October 8, 2023 5:31pm
Tony Stuart

Nanaia Mahuta has described Hamas’ terrorist aggression against Israel and Israel’s response as “an outbreak of conflict” .

In response to Mahuta’s piss-weak response which is in contrast to that of most of our allies, Christopher Luxon has said the following:

Christopher Luxon
@chrisluxonmp
I am shocked and saddened by the attacks overnight against Israel.

We condemn these Hamas attacks on Israel and the violence and suffering being inflicted on innocent civilians.

There is no justification for these attacks and Israel has a right to defend itself.
10:04 AM · Oct 8, 2023

https://twitter.com/chrisluxonmp/status/1710762928595730455

That’s an excellent response from Luxon, laying the blame fairly and squarely where it should be. Some might even describe it as Prime Ministerial. He has stayed away from weasel words like Mahuta did (and by the way, why is she in Spain six days out from the election?) and made a clear and unequivocal condemnation of Hamas.

But he’s also created a conundrum for Chris Hipkins who must either defend his Foreign Minister or make a similar statement to that of Luxon which will bring him into conflict with Labour’s Maori caucus and with the Greens, who adore Palestine. Just when Hipkins was getting a smidgen of momentum, along comes Mahuta saying “Hold my beer”…
23 0
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October 8, 2023 10:31am
- emmess
  
  Calling it an ‘outbreak of conflict’, is like calling the scribbles on Mahuta’s chin an ‘outbreak of ink’
  
  6 0
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  October 8, 2023 4:49pm
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  Would Mahuta’s sympathies lie with the indigenous people of the Levant?
  
  1 0
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  October 8, 2023 7:45pm
Benedict Yu

Michael Baker and the Gang just released some research on the New Zealand COVID response. They conclude that Jacinda saved 20,000 lives.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/499516/new-zealand-s-covid-19-response-saved-20-000-lives-research

They say that the virus was kept out for two years while everyone got vaccinated. That saved the lives.

Of course that makes no sense. Most people only had two shots to get the vaccine pass. Even the people who got a third shot, any protection against severe illness wore off a long, long, long time ago. It is clear that 80 percent of folk have no intention of getting a fourth, fifth or more shot.

So their “research” is junk yet it is being reported without critique from the media.
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October 8, 2023 10:38am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Read Guy Hatchard’s take on things, I believe you will find it much more reliable and trustworthy than anything Baker says. He is a proven liar.
  
  It was and is a very quick and easy matter to look up official statistics, add up a few columns of figures, and find out, contrary to the repeated claims of so called government experts, that NZ is not leading the world in Covid outcomes. We are comfortably mid table in excess deaths for the pandemic as a whole, but right now in 2023 third highest in the OECD.
  
  Everyone knew that Covid vaccines were developed over three months when vaccines were normally tested for ten years. This meant there was no testing of long term safety. We now know from our own NZ excess death figures and those of other highly vaccinated nations that there are many long term adverse effects which are serious and sometimes fatal.
  
  https://preview.mailerlite.com/i7m9s8i3i6/2320689314838616688/q2h8/
  
  Let me know if that link doesn’t work. I can’t find the original on his website, I opened that in a browser direct from my email.
  
  14 2
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  October 8, 2023 11:11am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Also read this damning report of not only the mRNA experiment, but all flu shots in general.
  
  It is an Open letter to Dr Nikita Kanani MBE, Deputy Lead, NHS Seasonal Vaccination Programmes
  
  I last had flu in the winter of 1999-2000. Since then I have investigated the efficacy of the annual flu shot, and lean towards the conclusions of Dr Tom Jefferson, of the Cochrane Institute, who has stated that ‘Influenza vaccines are about marketing and not science. We have few trials, and masses of very poor quality observational evidence. We [the Cochrane Institute] have presented evidence of considerable reporting bias, which governments continue to ignore. The science is missing and so making an informed decision is very difficult.’
  
  Worth reading the full article.
  
  https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/stop-feeding-us-these-lies-about-flu-and-covid-jabs/
  
  13 2
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  October 8, 2023 11:16am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    It is impossible for most folk to make informed decisions, especially old folk who feel they are vulnerable.
    
    On a related issue – saw an elderly woman walking down the footpath yesterday towing her grocery trolley thing. Wearing a face mask. Outside on a deserted street. These poor people have been terrorised and brain washed.
    
    This week Michael Baker released a report advocating permanent mask wearing.
    
    In commenting on how New Zealand dealt with COVID, he said “I think we would do some things the same, but every New Zealander would want us to learn lessons and do it better next time,” he said.
    
    “Unfortunately, there are even worse threats on the horizon.”
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/499516/new-zealand-s-covid-19-response-saved-20-000-lives-research
    
    Yes I guess there are always “worse threats on the horizon” if your time horizon is long enough.
    
    20 0
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    October 8, 2023 12:07pm
    - Keith White
      
      I think Michael Baker should certainly wear a mask, permanently. Perhaps the Hannibal Lector style would best suit him?
      
      19 0
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      October 8, 2023 12:16pm
    - kevn
      
      BY… baker boy needs to have a chat to Israel and get some perspective.
      
      7 0
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      October 8, 2023 12:17pm
  - Keith White
    
    Clan, I’m envious. You consistently attract more downticks when you’re writing about NZ’s Covidfascist responses. Could you spare me some of yours please 🙂
    
    9 1
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    October 8, 2023 12:17pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Keith – it takes time to collect dedicated haters of anything you say, no matter how accurate. Your on the right track, hang in there. 😁
      
      3 1
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      October 8, 2023 4:23pm
- Matt Long
  
  At least they’ve given up on the 80,000 fantasy, I expect the twenty thousand will be found to have needed some GIGO computing as well.
  
  13 0
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  October 8, 2023 1:23pm
  - rouppe
    
    We’re at 990 deaths per million population. Close to, but worse than the world average.
    
    So certainly not world leading
    
    10 0
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    October 8, 2023 2:15pm
    - mawm
      
      Route – To put it into perspective that is without the more virulent strains the northern hemisphere were exposed to. Definitely not world leading.
      
      7 1
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      October 8, 2023 3:38pm
- HeatherW
  
  Also from the article:
  “As the report noted, the key to New Zealand’s success was keeping the virus out for two years until most people could be vaccinated and the health system was ready for it, he said.”
  
  The first recorded case in NZ was in Feb 2020, so how is that keeping Covid-19 out for 2 years? Plus health system was not ready.
  
  9 0
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  October 8, 2023 2:18pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “The first recorded case in NZ was in Feb 2020, so how is that keeping Covid-19 out for 2 years?”
    
    Yes but it was then “eliminated” for (about) 2 years.
    
    4 0
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    October 8, 2023 4:42pm
  - cmm
    
    Quite.
    There might be so e forgiveness if they had used the time wisely to improve medical capabilities. But no they did not. If anything they made the situation worse.
    
    6 0
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    October 8, 2023 4:44pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Exactly. Nothing was done to improve hospitals or health facilities, nothing was done to instruct people on how to help themselves with diet, exercise, vitamin C,D, zinc.
      No the opposite, locked down and about the only places you could get food when it was allowed were takeaways.
      
      7 1
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      October 8, 2023 5:00pm
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Heather, their success came at the expense of screwing NZ over for at least, a generation. And given Hipkins brags about spending $100m on health, how many extra ICU beds did we get? In case anyone is struggling with that question, I believe it was ZERO. 0. Nada, zilch and nothing. So screwed the country over so the health system was ready? That would be a straight out lie. Again.
    
    2 0
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    October 8, 2023 7:50pm
Maggie Pie

Ahhh NO Nanaia – it’s an act of terrorism and slaughter of innocent Israeli citizens by the Palestinians…..

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1710596139626660211
14 3
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October 8, 2023 10:42am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Joe Biden kindly gave Iran $6B, so Hamas was funded more to attack Israel.
Why do lefties do these things? Why did Iran deserve $5B of US Taxpayer’s money?
Unbelievable. Israel needs to stop this by elimination of the constant threat.
Will Biden help out Israel? Can’t see it.

https://www.redvoicemedia.com/video/2023/10/hamas-terrorists-attack-israel-after-biden-gave-iran-6b-trump-was-right/?
11 3
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October 8, 2023 11:03am
- Nickc2
  
  IMO, Biden will use this fiasco to take the heat off himself and his son Hunter.
  Biden Inc. must survive regardless of the Law and nobody is reporting the depth of the Swamp. //
  
  4 1
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  October 8, 2023 4:18pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Even now, Trump knows the swamp is deep and wide. He underestimated it last time.
    I do hope Trump is educating Ron De Santis.
    
    Short of assassination Trump will breeze in!
    
    3 1
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    October 8, 2023 6:22pm
Harlequin

I note that the owners of the Green Parrot are so worried about Winston coming back that they’ve put the place on the market.
18 1
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October 8, 2023 11:21am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Au contraire. They think that the return of Winston is exactly the right time to put the place on the market.
  
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  October 8, 2023 6:15pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Speaker of the House Jim Jordan?
Well Jordan knows his stuff and does not take any nonsense.
The left will of course, hate this, Good!

https://www.thepoliticalglobe.com/trumps-power-move-former-president-endorses-jim-jordan-for-house-speaker/?
2 2
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October 8, 2023 11:21am
- virtualmark
  
  If they elect Jordan as Speaker then they will lose the House in 2024.
  
  A lot of the Speaker’s job is fundraising. Jordan is historically shit at greasing up to donors and to raising money. The GOP is already in a cash-crisis (Trump is hoovering up all the small donor $, and many states like MI, AZ and WI have spent heavily on unsuccessful 2020 election lawsuits) and Jordan is not the man to refill the coffers.
  
  Not sure who is though. They seem to have a pretty shallow talent pool for the Speaker job.
  
  3 7
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  October 8, 2023 12:07pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    As if the Dems are rich with talent!
    You really talk nonsense
    
    5 3
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    October 8, 2023 3:11pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Rich with crooks with talent.
      
      2 1
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      October 8, 2023 6:24pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Not the man. So say you.
    
    1 1
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    October 8, 2023 4:11pm
Yvette

Despite the well-documented failures of the Ardern-Hipkins government — whether in health, law and order, education or homelessness — it has been extraordinarily successful in one particular area. That is, the stealthy insertion of an interpretation of the Treaty as a “partnership” — manifested as co-governance — into a broad swathe of New Zealand law and policy.

Historian Claudia Orange noted in her updated edition of her book The Story of a Treaty, published in January, that a “change in mindsets and attitudes is needed if people in Aotearoa New Zealand are to grasp the revolutionary shifts that have occurred and continue to evolve”. [1]

Will the uplifting of te Ao Maori (Maori World view) to Aryan superiority and the embedding of principles which are not in the original Treaty, be properly addressed in the 1 News Leaders Debate this coming Thursday evening?
_________________
[1] GRAHAM ADAMS: Will co-governance drive a counter-revolution?
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/graham-adams-will-co-governance-drive-a-counter-revolution
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October 8, 2023 11:28am
- thirteenstars
  
  Also in which Adams outlines what ACT wants to say in a Treaty principles act:
  
  Seymour says that if Act is elected to government he would push to introduce a new law redefining the principles of the Treaty. Voters would be given the chance to approve or reject the Treaty Principles Act at the 2026 election to determine whether the law came into force.
  
  He says the Act would be “short but decisive”:
  
  • All citizens of New Zealand have the same political rights and duties;
  
  • All political authority comes from the people by democratic means including universal suffrage, regular and free elections with a secret ballot;
  
  • New Zealand is a multi-ethnic liberal democracy where discrimination based on ethnicity is illegal.
  
  He added: “For the avoidance of doubt, these principles prevail over any contradictory enactment by Parliament, or finding on the matter of Treaty Principles by the Courts.”
  
  It is this law that would be decided on by referendum at the 2026 election.
  
  What is it about the above that Chris Luxon finds so “divisive” as he has recently said? Luxon also said he believes the Treaty is a “partnership”, that being the very principle every activist relies upon to justify co-governance.
  
  The “divisive” and “partnership” malarkey begins right here:
  
  https://www.youtube.com/live/UP0hZ8vp1Nk?si=wVJ__Sx58oTFz_vO&t=673
  
  And the Nats are worried about Peters doing a dirty? Plenty of double-talk and dirt to go around, methinks.
  
  12 2
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  October 8, 2023 2:48pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Another nasty attack on a shopkeeper…now in a critical condition in hospital.

It happened on Friday afternoon, but for some reason, the public have only learnt about it now.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/499672/shopkeeper-in-critical-condition-after-porirua-assault
20 1
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October 8, 2023 12:33pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Everybody’s girlfriend has an opinion too. A 23 year old expert!

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/shaneel-lal-election-2023-christopher-luxon-s-coalition-with-act-nz-first-will-come-at-the-cost-of-stability/ar-AA1hQja9?
12 2
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October 8, 2023 2:00pm
- Gravelroad
  
  I don’t know why this guy keeps getting the opportunity to give his opinions in any public forum.
  He is a single issue guy – that issue being sexual orientation – about which only a small minority of people are interested.
  The management of The Herald are queens of virtue signalling. They should move on.
  
  22 0
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  October 8, 2023 2:49pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    This is the person that organised the attack on Posie Parker.
    Yup, that is the one that got the transistors to Albert Park,
    
    9 1
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    October 8, 2023 4:22pm
- emmess
  
  Shaneel Lal
  A picture of stability? Am I right?
  Naaaaaahhhhhhh
  
  5 0
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  October 8, 2023 4:52pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Isn’t he/she/sh/it NZER of the year?
  What does that say about the country? 🤪🤡
  
  11 1
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  October 8, 2023 5:07pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    They/Them
    
    4 2
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    October 8, 2023 5:59pm
Swifty

What is this crap?

https://i.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/300977049/the-world-is-going-to-know-who-we-are-mori-voters-struggle-with-cost-of-living

Is this Stuff having to churn out x number of Maori puff pieces a month to quality for some taxpayer funding or something?

What a total waste of time for everyone involved including, most importantly, the reader.

A complete whingefest from start to finish and full of evidence-free assertions with a person complaining that they aren’t being given what they want by others and trying to turn it all into an issue of human rights!

Well, wake up dearie, deprivation, poverty, hard work and sacrifice has been the feature of the human condition since the start.

Oh and I see the reason for her poor financial position is all down to colonisation and that pre-contact Maori were living a life of abundance and plenty. Well I can assure that young person they were most assuredly not. And, I would venture young folk, like this person, who chose not to assist around the village tending the gardens, food gathering and preparation, cooking, cleaning, mending clothes etc were looked upon most dimly and have their rations cut as a result.

This fostering in our young this sense of grievance and entitlement does us no good. No good at all, for us and them.

We’ve turned from a nation of resourceful, clever, independent individuals and families to a society constantly complaining and with our hands permanently out – and which ever increasing numbers of politicians take full advantage of by placing a few coins in them, taken from others, in return for a vote for them and their parties.

This is bad Stuff and you should stop doing it. You’re doing no-one any favours. Quite the reverse in fact.

Stuff is actively contributing to the enfeeblement of our nation. It’s utterly shameful.
17 0
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October 8, 2023 3:51pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I have no money for a kai, e-hoa.
  I think the kai is the problem here.
  
  5 1
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  October 8, 2023 6:04pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Do yourself a favour- stop visiting Stuff.
  Tell your friends to do the same. You’ll feel better, and you may even be helping to hasten their demise.
  
  10 0
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  October 8, 2023 6:41pm
  - Lenticular
    
    Quit Facebook, Twitter, etc, too. You’ll be much happier.
    
    3 0
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    October 8, 2023 9:13pm
kevn

Clan… Kiwibank, the one NZ keeps subsidizing to keep them going, choice.
2 1
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October 8, 2023 5:25pm
NZer In Exile

Everyone got their popcorn/booze ready for next weekend?

What will you do on election night if it’s an early slam dunk for the centre right?

What are your plans if (heaven forbid) the clown show somehow gets back in?
9 0
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October 8, 2023 6:03pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The clown show will never get in.
  I am one of those who don’t get hangovers. Foggy yes.
  I think Sunday morning will be my first hangover for 40 years!
  
  6 2
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  October 8, 2023 6:07pm
  - kevn
    
    StevO… The media are really working it for labour. So transparent.
    
    8 0
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    October 8, 2023 6:15pm
- Ghost
  
  Does it matter who wins?
  
  Left will get us to the destination quickly, Right will get us to the same destination slower
  
  5 4
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  October 8, 2023 6:11pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Remember, this game starts on Sunday 15th.
Sat night is the media’s last bullshit chance.
4 2
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October 8, 2023 6:27pm
Swifty

Winston Raymond Peters – bullshitting non-stop for 45 years.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-winston-peters-rails-against-national-party-ads-and-news-media-at-masterton-campaign-meeting/3V44CNPW7ZCT5CUSUSNYC7CCXQ/
13 0
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October 8, 2023 6:38pm
kevn

Swifty… I am still surprised by the people I know who think winnie has something to add and so plan to vote NZF.
A one man party.
11 0
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October 8, 2023 7:06pm
- Swifty
  
  Some people clearly have short bloody memories that’s all I can say.
  
  Or they are some sort of masochist.
  
  5 0
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  October 8, 2023 8:28pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/300977049/the-world-is-going-to-know-who-we-are-mori-voters-struggle-with-cost-of-living
This article must be a joke, surely !
The words of this 21-year old woman are drastically at odds with her appearance.
Does she really not understand why she has found it impossible to get a job ?
Jesus !
7 0
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October 8, 2023 8:05pm

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