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October 7, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 07 October 2023

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General Debate

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Warren

Well New Zealander’s can moan and grizzle all the like after the Election if we don’t get a change of Government because they have orchestrated their own and their childrens destiny for the future if we don’t get a Centre Right Government or lose the upcoming Election.
After what Winston Peter’s and New Zealand First have continually done to this Country over the last 20 years is unbelievable yet the voter again risks putting future generations to increase the damage the Government (Labour) has already inflicted on this Country
over the last 6 years is madness and Irresponsible.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-new-poll-shows-whether-kiwis-believe-winston-peters-wont-work-with-labour/YJ4KMBI2TBGNHHKRQMC7K6MOPI/
There is only one way to get this Country New Zealand back to what it once was and that is to two tick National or the Act Party and put New Zealand on a track to recovery.
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October 7, 2023 8:00am
- lastmanstanding
  
  My thoughts on Winstons demands and the final outcome.
  From the Nats.
  1. ACT have no roles inside or outside Cabinet.
  2. NZF have an absolute veto over ACT legislation and regulation.
  3. Winston gets Foreign Affairs, Shane Jones get a Cabinet post plus NZF get 2 Associate roles.
  
  From Labour.
  1. The Maori Party are not part of the Coalition. This will suit Labour as it doesnt need them and avoids having to deal with their racist demands.
  2. The same Cabinet roles as with the Nats.
  3. Winston will agree to make lots of noise around Co-governance, other racist legislation and regulation and climate change but in the end not block it.
  4. Winston will demand a written undertaking that there will be no Wealth Tax, CGT, other new taxes.
  
  The Final Outcome.
  The Nats. Depends on ACT. They may decide to sit on the cross benches and give confidence and supply to the Nats or they may decide to sit on the cross benches only.
  Labour. They will welcome NZF with open arms. The Greens wont object if they get their Climate Change proposals and will drop demands for a Wealth Tax or CGT as Labour have already ruled it out.
  
  I would welcome others thoughts.
  
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  October 7, 2023 9:23am
  - Vinicius
    
    Re your From Labour #1, if Winston says he doesn’t want the Maori Party in a coalition based on the Curia Poll released yesterday there isn’t the numbers in Parliament. Seats for Labour + Greens + NZF (35 + 13 + 9 = 57).
    
    https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/gen_poll_oct_2023_06_10_23_nztu_curia
    
    In passing a lot of media commentators are forgetting that the Maori Party have to win an electorate seat to get back into Parliament based on current polling.
    
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    October 7, 2023 9:41am
    - Paulus
      
      Surely the Maori Party will be part of any Government as decreed in the Treaty of Waitangi !
      
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      October 7, 2023 11:07am
      - Ruawai
        
        Based on local government where Maori get places on some councils by rights because of their Maori heritage this will be the next step for Central Government. Maori will eventually get automatic 5 seats in whichever party governs. As the Overton window slides the general public will, in time, think this is a great idea.
        
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        October 7, 2023 2:34pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    I wonder if Labour and Winston can both save face by rolling Hipkins and having Winston as PM? Or maybe finance minister for National? Either way it might come down to how many dead rats buttered in shit James or David are prepared to eat? My bet is James wins that contest hands down.
    Anyway, good to see our MMP working normally again and allowing Winston to select the next government//
    
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    October 7, 2023 9:42am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      septic skeptic – I’ve said it often and I’ll say it again.
      If Peters gets in the blame lies with Luxon and/or Seymour.
      
      They gave him the oxygen to get back by failing to speak out about one of the darkest periods of NZ history. How is it possible for them to ignore this?
      
      Seymour could have said what Peters said re a proper covid inquiry after the election.
      
      If he had, this wouldn’t even be a topic for discussion.
      
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      October 7, 2023 10:11am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Exactly Clan,
        
        Winston is there because Luxon and Seymour didn’t care.
        
        He has saddled the elephant in the room and will ride it into Parliament.
        
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        October 7, 2023 10:30am
      - septic skeptic
        
        Your point is valid, and obvious enough. So why didn’t it happen?
        1. Maybe all the MPs got bribed to tow the Vax line.
        2. Maybe Luxon and Seymour figured stirring this nest would risk alienating the vast number of people still happy with the jabs and risk a re-run of the 2000 election.
        3. Maybe they both still think the covid response was fine and the jabs work well.
        I don’t know what to think, though I do think 3 is the least likely.
        
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        October 7, 2023 10:40am
      - PeeJay
        
        Sorry – I’ve had just about enough of this. I honestly respect your opinions as you write some really good stuff on a range of topics but your visceral hatred of Seymour and Luxon over Covid is too much.
        
        If NZF gets in it will be because of people like you voting for him.
        
        You are absolutely free to vote for Peter’s Clan – I absolutely respect your decision to do so.
        
        But don’t for one second blame Seymour or Luxon for Peter’s – the fault of Peter’s being kingmaker will be all those who chose to vote for Peter’s.
        
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        October 7, 2023 11:46am
      - Ghost
        
        Clan is right, Peter’s has oxygen because national and act gave it to him with their silence.
        
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        October 7, 2023 11:57am
      - Steve Todd
        
        Clan, you are, of course, entitled to comment here as you see fit (within the rules, obviously), but I, for one, am getting fed up with your now almost daily, “Woe is me, there’s no party I can vote for”, or similar, comments.
        
        No-one, including those whose opinions you respect, can help you with this. No-one is going to have information about any one of the parties on offer that will enable you to vote for that party.
        
        If the leaders of National and ACT NZ have disappointed you, and you don’t like / trust Winston Peters, then you have put yourself in a corner whereby you will have no choice but to vote for one of the “anti-mandate” parties (in the full knowledge that your vote will not be effective in helping to determine the make-up of the next parliament).
        
        However, we all know that is not going to happen, don’t we? We all know that, when it comes time for you to vote – yeah, yeah, perhaps for the last time, but I doubt it – you are either going to “hold your nose” and give your Party vote to National or to ACT NZ, or, alternatively, to NZ First.
        
        Right, now that we’ve got that sorted, would you please just give us all a break for the next week? Thank you.
        
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        October 7, 2023 12:22pm
      - cmm
        
        Whether you want to face it or not, Winston only picked up the support he has because of what Clan is saying.
        Not only has Luxton failed to address the issue, he has actively shut down Nats who have.
        Seymour has done a better job.
        
        A simple “We stuffed up, we were going with what seemed to be the best info at the time. Sorry.” would likely appease many people.
        
        Instead they opened the door wide for Winston.
        
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        October 7, 2023 12:53pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Down below is a person saying you should give us a break from your comments on the Election.
        Hey Steve Todd – it is you! You can have free speech but Clan can’t? Piss off.
        Would you like an automatic scroll wheel?
        
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        October 7, 2023 3:18pm
      - JJ56
        
        CM and the rest of the ‘gave NZF oxygen’ brigade. You need to reflect on the counterfactual – NZF were heading over 5% and Nats said we won’t work with them, or alternatively said nothing. What would have happen?
        
        In both cases media speculation about NZF’s role, and oxygen. The dynamics remain the same and the loser on the night can still roll the winner with help from their (new found) friends.
        
        So unlikely NZF’s vote would have collapsed.
        
        At least now the default presumption is NZF goes right, and at least the Nats can push for easier votes to come their way freely NZF rather than chipping away at bedrock Labour, as it were.
        
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        October 7, 2023 3:23pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        @The Great Otto @ 3:18PM
        
        Hey, tough guy, go back and read my comment again. I was asking him to please not agonise, publicly, over the next week, as to which party he can vote for. No-one cares!
        
        Any other comments he wishes to make, political, election-related, or otherwise, of course, in my opinion, continue to be welcome. Didn’t I make that clear right at the outset?
        
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        October 7, 2023 3:36pm
      - Keith White
        
        PJ et al:
        
        Those of you who’ve had “just about enough of this” because you got through the Covid debacle relatively unscathed – or maybe you even got to work less and / or made out like bandits on the back of the Government’s diktats – could always, just not read about this.
        
        Those of us whose families and careers and lives have been irrevocably changed – and not by Covid, but by tyrannical and stupid politicians and bureaucrats – have not yet had nearly enough in pursuit of acknowledgement followed by justice.
        
        But hey, you had no need to read this.
        
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        October 7, 2023 3:46pm
      - PeeJay
        
        @ Keith White.
        
        I’m really trying not to be aggressive here but man you are pushing it.
        
        Firstly – got through relatively unscathed? You sir, know the square root of fuck all about how I got through Covid. I do not work for the government, nor have I made out like a bandit. I was one of those who was given a simple choice – jab or job. I then had a further complication which was my wife has a compromised immunity so was absolutely scared shitless (which is why much to my shame I absolutely hate Ardern). I was effectively in a situation of get jabbed or lose my job and possibly lose my wife. I also had to take the booster – and have had some heart issues ever since. Hardly unscathed.
        
        I generally enjoy Clan’s posts. He is very well read and I find his posts informative.
        
        However, he, like many on the right, will vote for NZF. They will do so because of Covid (conveniently forgetting Peter’s was Deputy PM), because Luxon and Seymour haven’t said sorry or reversed their Covid positions (holding the machine to account worked out so well for Bridges didn’t it ffs), or any one of a number of reasons. And after voting for NZF, just like in 2017, when Peter’s goes back on his word – just like he always does – they will be screaming the loudest.
        
        I have absolutely no issue with Clan or anyone else voting NZF – they are free to do so and I respect their right. I just tire a little of them posting here and somehow blaming Seymour or Luxon for forcing them to vote NZF. If this country ends up in the shit because of NZF, as it most assuredly will regardless of who Peter’s decides to anoint as the chosen one, then the people who are to blame for that will be those idiots who voted for NZF – not Luxon, not Seymour.
        
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        October 7, 2023 5:57pm
      - Ghost
        
        If you alienate your voters enough that they no longer feel they can vote for you, then yes they are to blame for those voters going elsewhere. You can blame the voters as much as you like but you can’t say their reason is invalid, they have every right to feel how they do
        
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        October 7, 2023 6:09pm
      - Sir Henry Morgan
        
        Completely agree. Luxon and Seymour messed up big time. They were unwilling to risk a little short term pain to reframe the whole conversation and get a long term win. A couple of real idiots.
        
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        October 7, 2023 6:01pm
      - Keith White
        
        PF said: “I’m really trying not to be aggressive here but man you are pushing it.”
        
        Well, you failed at that try. I’m sorry to hear you had issues like many of us; I did qualify my reply with maybe – but maybe you overlooked that qualifier?
        
        I wish you and yours better fortune ahead.
        
        But (yeah there’s a but) I and many others are neither forgiving nor forgetting what was done.
        
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        October 7, 2023 6:15pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Steve Todd – fair call, I’ve already voted. All the best.
        
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        October 7, 2023 6:43pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        @ClanMcleod @ 6:43PM
        
        Excellent. Thanks, Clan. All the best to you, too.
        
        I must confess, I imagined you waiting until polling day before you cast your vote(s).
        
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        October 7, 2023 6:58pm
      - ecco
        
        @peejay and @steve Todd – I’m with you re this fella Clanmcleod’s repeated comments re his anti vax, anti mandate daily diatribe and repetition of his views on national and act not doing what he would have liked. I don’t come to kiwiblog to read 15-20 posts, day in and day out, about this topic from the same person.
        
        It’s a great shame this blog has been hijacked by a handful of these people. It used to be a great little right leaning blog. Now it seems to be populated by these people with an extreme view on this topic. The types who are definitely going to vote Peters, which is their prerogative but I don’t need to hear from them on a daily basis. Generally I just scroll on when seeing their moniker, but their posts just clutter the general debate. Do these people have nothing better to do all day apart from clog this once great blog with their one eyed negative view on virtually every party?
        
        It got to the point where I just withdrew my patreon support of the blog due to these sorts of people. They have generally made the blog unreadable with the repetition and vitriol of their posts. I don’t have time to sift through their national anthem/nursery rhymes to find real issues that are relevant to me.
        
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        October 8, 2023 7:20am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Winston won’t be Finance Minister. It is a lot of work.
      
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      October 7, 2023 10:16am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        He’s good with foreign affairs. Give it to him. He’ll do a good job with that.
        
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        October 7, 2023 8:32pm
    - 3-coil
      
      septic skeptic (9.42am) – good argument, eloquently put! 😊
      
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      October 7, 2023 10:53am
    - artemisia
      
      septic skeptic
      Your point is valid, and obvious enough. So why didn’t it happen?
      
      I would say your second point, political, but would add to factor in ‘world gone mad’, initial uncertainties, and also that opposition is not the government responsible for the decisions.
      
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      October 7, 2023 11:00am
    - Ruawai
      
      Lets hope Labour supporters come out and vote for National to keep Winston out. Like happened in reverse in 2020.
      
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      October 7, 2023 2:35pm
  - peterwn
    
    There is enough philosophical and practical common ground between ACT and National that there would be a coalition agreement. It would be a classic negotiation situation. If need be they could invite a retired judge in as a mediator. Even the ‘bottom lines’ would be watered down. If ACT pushes too hard and decide to sit on the cross benches then:
    1. They would not get any Ministerial portfolios, select committee chairs etc.
    2. It would greatly increase Labour’s chances of winning the next election in 2026 (or earlier!).
    For these reasons, ACT needs to be reasonable and sensible and will achieve far more with this than standing on its high horse and behaving like a spoilt brat. Anyway ACT’s present attitude can be put down to tub-thumping for election purposes.
    
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    October 7, 2023 10:04am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Notice Seymour has stopped with his I will get my way or I will pack a Tandy and sit alongside Labour, not you never hear his pathetic threats anymore, not he now can work with Peters. Luxon did well to not rule him out
      
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      October 7, 2023 12:55pm
      - I remember when
        
        David Seymour could see what the polls are now confirming, that his support was leaking to National.
        
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        October 7, 2023 3:30pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Offer Winston Minister of Broadcasting and Minister of Foreign Affairs. Tell him if he behaves that he will be made an Ambassador to the US and a knighthood.
    
    We need our corrupt media sorted out.
    
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    October 7, 2023 10:33am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Saying Labour won’t need TPM is where you went wrong, all 4 parties only get there by one seat, to say they don’t need them puts them out of parliament. NZF will over take a dying ACT party, Seymour’s mouth has scared people away, he threatened walking away if he did not get his way, now the people are flicking him the bird
    
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    October 7, 2023 12:49pm
    - MikeMan
      
      Keep telling yourself that.
      
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      October 7, 2023 4:59pm
- mawm
  
  Warren – National and ACT have brought this upon themselves and by extension on us. The voters are crying out for a change of course to save this country, to get away from the harmful policies that Labour has introduced but National is offering the same woke crap, and both them and ACT are refusing to acknowledge the harm caused by the vaccines and the non pharmacological response. It is no wonder that Winston once again is going to be the king maker.
  
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  October 7, 2023 9:27am
  - Che Guava
    
    They don’t understand cause and effect as it applies to politics. For similar reasons, the Establishment throughout the West seem aghast at the “rise of the far right” when in fact they are the cause that leads to the effect of a Trump in America or the AfD in Germany. It’s not “irrationality” and “hate” that causes these reactionary phenomena, it is an increasingly deep dissatisfaction with a status quo that we are propagandised into believing is the pinnacle of all possible political paradigms. Is Peters the answer? I doubt it, but more people are increasingly looking for an answer to the problem posed by the more entrenched mainstream parties.
    
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    October 7, 2023 10:04am
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      Wise words. Throughout the West (and especially the Anglosphere) there is a growing disconnect between the elites and the general populace. I’ve been known to refer to our “House of Unrepresentatives” in Wellington, and both major parties can be broadly described as globalist progressive neoliberal parties. The mood is ripe for a populist Trump-like figure, but Peters is too old and low on energy to take on that role.
      
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      October 7, 2023 10:40am
      - I remember when
        
        Yes.
        It is interesting that the media have found it to be in their interests to use his possible effect on a future government as the news.
        Rather than referring to his more obvious ageing and showing signs of a lack of energy.
        He would be ideal for an advertisement by Ash.
        
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        October 7, 2023 3:39pm
    - kiwi_chileno
      
      I’m as mad as hell, and I’m not going to take this anymore! Things have got to change. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwMVMbmQBug
      
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      October 7, 2023 12:53pm
  - peterwn
    
    So the voters who do not like what Labour is doing will effectively vote Labour by casting their votes for Winston who would most probably go with Labour anyway. How silly!
    
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    October 7, 2023 10:06am
    - mawm
      
      That’s a silly argument.
      
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      October 7, 2023 11:43am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        mawm: “That’s a silly argument.”
        
        Care to add a bit of substance to back up that assertion?
        
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        October 7, 2023 8:35pm
    - backster
      
      There would have to be an increase on the $3 billion slush fund , kind Jacinda paid to get him to go with her.
      
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      October 7, 2023 1:37pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Anyone here think National Green is a better prospect for stable government than National ACT NZ 1st?
    
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    October 7, 2023 10:56am
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      Shaw almost certainly could work with a National government. Don’t think anybody else in his party could though
      
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      October 7, 2023 11:23am
      - septic skeptic
        
        OK, playing devils advocate:
        Basic agreement:
        No changes to the tax system
        Serious work towards net zero
        Tweaking only on co-governance
        Ministerial roles
        Shaw climate change
        Davidson associate of whatever. Doesn’t matter what as she is happy with the salary and too lazy to do any damage.
        Swarbrick gets something meaningful. Maybe on immigration/refugees?
        Genter has to swallow a dead rat. The Nats need her out of the way in order to get transport focused on actually getting people from A to B.
        DOC is also available for them.
        
        As an ACT supporter I could console myself with not having to listen to Winston and Shane pontificating.
        
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        October 7, 2023 11:51am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Yes, although I doubt it will happen. Reading above has been in vain in determining what has gone wrong for National and Act. A reasonable suggestion would be that Act is sinking on its rigid no “Co-Governance” misjudging its value or indeed lack of value to win votes. If that is true, or even partly true, Act has strengthened NZ First at its own expense. Seymour is rattled, and the particular jab from Winston that Act had never served in Cabinet in any Government was a masterclass for Winston who seems far from his best and happy to tread water having broken through the 5% barrier. The entire election results promise to be a mess when the very least needed is confidence in who will lead the economy. No one matches Robertson’s economic acumen but he is on the wrong side of the vote. Still the poorest economic leadership from the right since Bill English.
      
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      October 7, 2023 11:32am
      - septic skeptic
        
        “No one matches Robertsons’ economic acumen”. Now THAT is all too true. Adrian Orr must also get some of the credit though.
        
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        October 7, 2023 11:58am
      - I remember when
        
        Thank goodness Brian has saved us from our madness and helped us to see the way of wisdom.
        
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        October 7, 2023 3:49pm
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      Any “stable” coalition of the Nats and Greens would be very damaging to this country’s future. Many of our institutions are already co-governed, and the Nats won’t undo much of that without someone like Seymour forcing their hand. We would continue to have legally sanctioned racial discrimination. Full stead ahead towards net zero. The Greens would strongly oppose any attempts to make the gang lifestyle less attractive (e.g. barring gang members from Kainga Ora). They would also strongly oppose any move to slash surplus bureaucracy. And do you really want to see and hear more of Chloe Swarbrick, Marama Davidson, JAG and Ricardo MM in the media (they would all have to ministers of something)?
      
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      October 7, 2023 1:04pm
      - septic skeptic
        
        I don’t want it. I am pointing out that this coalition might have a better chance of keeping the Nats in government for longer than the alternate 3-way. The 3-way could well implode due to NZ 1st/ACT acrimony. Plus any Shane Jones lapses in judgement will be scrutinized much more harshly by the media watchdogs. Last time the watchdogs were happy to roll over and have Cindy tickle their tummies.
        
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        October 7, 2023 1:37pm
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        Replying to Septic Sceptic: So you’re trying to puot yourself in Luxon’s shoes, rather than saying what you’d like? I wonder how much of the Seymour vs Peter antipathy is electoral theatre – both parties trying to convince the right-leaning public that a vote for the other is a wasted vote. Or do you think it’s much deeper than that, and will continue after the election? How do you see it? If they both have any sense, they will focus on what they have in common – opposition to co-governance and the treaty as a “partnership”.
        
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        October 7, 2023 3:01pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    How can dropping most of what Labour want be giving woke labour stuff, people like you with this stupidity are the ones that are letting Peters and Labour have another sniff
    
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    October 7, 2023 12:57pm
- Che Guava
  
  “Centre right”? We need hard right at this point if we are going to have any hope of resuscitate the country. If what constitutes “the centre” is determined by the respective extremities, then we have gone so far left for 70 or 80 years that “centre right” is a complete waste of time at this point. The public have been so pysoped over that time that “far right” now denotes in practice “anything that will actually fix things.” To get real change, lot’s or people are going to have to be offended.
  
  If you look around you and don’t like what you see, and you want to understand what will have an actual positive effect, look at what are considered taboos and thus are unacceptable to the status quo you wish to amend. A radical reformulation and rethink of most of what have come to be our common assumptions is required.
  
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  October 7, 2023 9:29am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Anyone think hard right is going to win is part of the problem, look what happened when Seymour started spouting hard right dictates, they have lost more than a quarter of his supporters, MMP dictates there will never be a hard right or hard left government again
    
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    October 7, 2023 1:00pm
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      Depends what is meant by “hard right” or “hard left”. The current government has been hard left on culture, but barely left of centre economically. ACT is hard right economically, but liberal on some socio-cultural issues.
      
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      October 7, 2023 1:16pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        You certainly will not get the hard right ge is talking about, part of the reason Act are now falling, gone are the days of 18%
        
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        October 7, 2023 1:37pm
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      But do you think the problem is Seymour’s hard right policies? Or his arrogance and his gaffs (e.g. comparing Opotiki to Mogadishu). My money is on the latter.
      
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      October 7, 2023 3:09pm
      - Lenticular
        
        He completely alienated me, a hard right voter, with how he treated the Family First panel (and voters with their values) with his “Christians don’t believe in DNA” line and other such contemptuous nonsense.
        
        It became clear that he hates conservatives far more than the Left, whom he usually treats with kid gloves in comparison.
        
        The hardline conservative / ACT crossover vote may not have been huge but I’d wager it was 1 or 2% of the 10 he’s lost.
        
        Good riddance, we need a real conservative party, not more allies of woke capitalism. Another 3 years of Labour burning down the country with 5% wasted right wing vote and NZF back in might finally make National and ACT consider their ways.
        
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        October 7, 2023 7:47pm
      - Damocles11
        
        Sad to read Lenticulars bitter and unhinged comments: ‘Another 3 years of Labour burning down the country with 5% wasted right wing vote and NZF back in might finally make National and ACT consider their ways.’
        
        Happy to see the country destroyed, as long as that ‘teaches National and ACT a lesson’.
        Sick stuff!
        
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        October 7, 2023 9:34pm
- Southern Raider
  
  I’m wary of the polls. Does anyone actually know someone who is voting for Winston?
  
  Maybe it’s wishful thinking but I can’t see how his polling is so high. I don’t know a single person who has even promoted they might, let alone said they will vote for him.
  
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  October 7, 2023 11:44am
  - Ghost
    
    I know a few people who are giving him their protest vote.
    
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    October 7, 2023 11:51am
  - Inthe09
    
    One of my friends did that terrible ‘vote compass’ thing that (I think?) TVNZ run. It told her to vote for NZF…
    
    She said she didn’t ‘get politics’ – I said do you want more of the same or a change. Change she said – so I pointed her to National and Act. I hope it worked but she is tribal Labour so god knows.
    
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    October 7, 2023 1:29pm
  - Notsofast
    
    I am and several other lifetime labour voters I know.
    
    Fran OSullivan is a notably mature voice in mainstream NZ media. She writes:
    
    The NZ First manifesto is surprisingly lengthy. It was released just as Peters was about to take part in TVNZ’s multi-party leaders’ debate.
    There are a range of policy planks that provide differentiation from rivals that roughly fall into what the party terms “defending freedom and democracy” — such as giving the English language more prominence, various gender-specific policies that most parties are too timid to debate, and protecting freedom of speech by opposing hate speech laws.
    This has been a sleeper issue in the campaign.
    
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    October 7, 2023 1:47pm
  - wsk12345
    
    Most people I know are voting for him. Like Clan, they can’t get past the way Seymour and the Nats were in lockstep with the totalitarian covid regime and all this time later have failed to say that perhaps they got it wrong.
    
    A lot of people here think it’s not as issue – actually it’s the only issue for many who were trampled on, fired from jobs and sports clubs, had to see the pharmacist/vet/physiotherapist on the sidewalk as people walked or drove by staring at them, lost their house, lost their marriage, were kicked out of volunteer organisations, were ridiculed by people they thought were friends, or reluctantly complied and were left with permanent blood clots or other injuries. I know people who suffered this treatment – I also did face some of it (lost my job among other things). And this being “othered” is not something you just get over.
    
    So Winston first will be in parliament unless Seymour man’s up and admits they got some of it wrong. He could say that in light of the new info this week about MoH exemptions he will support an enquiry. That would go a long way for many.
    
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    October 7, 2023 2:20pm
  - miltonF
    
    On the contrary, I’ve never met so many people intending to vote NZF.
    
    There are two main groups supporting NZF. Ex-labour voters who aren’t completely brainwashed and can see that Labour destroyed the country. They find voting for ACT of NAT a step too far.
    
    Second group is libertarian minded people, who would normally vote ACT or NAT, but can’t bring themselves to support these parties after the last few years, as they’ve proved to be socialist/authoritarian parties.
    
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    October 7, 2023 4:04pm
  - GJM
    
    Look at TheBFD. Cam Slater luvs Winston as do many commenters of his blog. I remember Cam being disappointed when Winnie shafted shooters (surprise), yet here we are again.
    It woudl be interesting to see in due course how it plays out. Winston and his popularity is in part because he plays the media like a fiddle, and they love him as he sells newspapers. There is never any indpeth look at the others on the list, which is important to any party which will have multiple MPs. They appear to be hangers on, riding th ecoat tails as uusual. All his previous MPs or supporters (Tracy Martin et al) have all long gone.
    
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    October 8, 2023 11:56am
- Notsofast
  
  This clip from 10 years ago has Winston suggesting one sovereign state, and no tribal privilege. It seems very clear.
  
  https://twitter.com/sanguine211/status/1709834481098756432?t=c3VFvX28QwvxJldcMy9iXA&s=19
  
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  October 7, 2023 1:46pm
- rouppe
  
  This whole “2 ticks for party x” just pisses me off. It’s so intellectually lazy.
  
  I am in the Mana electorate. Labour could put a pukeko in as a candidate and it would win.
  
  My party vote went to Act because I still believe a more influential act party will produce a better government than an overwhelmingly National government.
  
  However the only candidate within shouting distance of Labour candidate Barbara Edmonds is National candidate Frances Hughes. So that’s who I electorate voted because however slim, that is the only candidate with any chance to displace Edmonds.
  
  What on earth would giving my electorate vote to the act candidate do.
  
  As an aside, if nz first holds the balance of power, what they do will prove if they can be trusted at all, and the following 3 years will show whether they become a voting option again in 2026.
  
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  October 7, 2023 3:54pm
CJames

I see National is promising to fast-track offshore wind permits. Why? Or is this just because the wets in the policy advisory group couldn’t pass School Cert Physics between them? They definitely can’t read the trade papers.
If they can’t make it economic in the New England area (https://www.manhattancontrarian.com/blog/2023-10-5-update-on-offshore-wind-projects-off-the-mid-atlantic-and-new-england) at three times the power price it is here, why will Taranaki be any better? Or are they hoping for a big subsidy? Net Zero is not viable, even for NZ. All it will do is waste money and impoverish those who aren’t consultants or iwi elites.
It seems the last Minister of Energy or even Cabinet Minister who actually knew what he was talking about on the subject was Stan Goosman.
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October 7, 2023 8:00am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  They’re only proposing to allow it, not to require it and certainly not to spend taxpayer money on it. If it’s not economically viable, it won’t happen.
  
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  October 7, 2023 8:15am
  - pdm
    
    Can you be sure Dudley?
    
    Luxon is very very Climate Change orientated.
    
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    October 7, 2023 9:04am
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      I’m not into the practice of judging people on what I presume they “really” mean. Luxon said what he said, and it didn’t include anything about subsidy or compulsion.
      
      Certainly, Luxon and his party appear to take climate change seriously. The difference between them and Labour/Green is that National acknowledge the desirability of addressing climate change in ways that are cost-effective, leaving it to market mechanisms to determine what those ways are. Labour and the Greens are happy to throw any amount of money at anything, no matter how small the emissions saving per dollar and even if by directing resource towards one currently fashionable technology they actively undermine progress towards other, potentially more effective technologies.
      
      That’s basically your choice here – address climate change rationally and efficiently, or address it with prodigious economic waste. Over to you
      
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      October 7, 2023 9:16am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        No, that isn’t the only choice here. The big glaring choice is, permit the open discussion and debate between the opposing experts regarding the impacts of people on the climate.
        
        IF it is conclusively proven that there is a problem that we can feasibly do something about, then ok, do it rationally.
        But there is ZERO compelling evidence that humans are having a material effect on the climate.
        
        Worse still, all of the current plans to address this made up problem will come with a massive negative outcome for the vast majority of people.
        
        Here’s Switzerland planning to heavily restrict use of EVs when there is a shortage of energy due to the the fact it is impossible to guarantee consistent and reliable power from renewables only.
        
        https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/12/02/switzerland-plans-to-ban-electric-cars-from-its-roads/
        
        They’re even talking about shutting down theatres and sporting events, oh, and banning consoles like Xbox and Playstation.
        
        We won’t even go down the track of where all the raw materials are coming from for us all to have an EV. Or where the batteries will go afterwards.
        
        The plan is globalism. It is for most of us to “own nothing and be happy”. You will eat bugs, you will use public transport. You will have a digital pass for everything and you will have social credit score which will control your ability to partake in society, depending on your ‘behaviour’.
        
        These are not conspiracy theories. This is what is being brought into force at breakneck speed. Covid was the test run to see the level of compliance. Obviously it was more than good enough so now the big narrative switch is to ‘climate’ ideology.
        
        If it was truly planet threatening then they should have went nuclear ten years ago. Solar and wind is for hobbyists, not for national power supply. Any honest cost benefit analysis proves this clearly.
        
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        October 7, 2023 10:06am
      - mawm
        
        Clan – The plan is globalism. 100%
        
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        October 7, 2023 10:14am
      - Dudley Quaffquaff
        
        Clan – I meant, that’s your choice in deciding how to vote in this election. There isn’t a party that will offer, let alone deliver, what you are demanding. You could always start one yourself
        
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        October 7, 2023 11:27am
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        Yes, but that is how slippery slopes work.
        
        Forn the Nats it is a meaningless concession. For the left, it’s another turn of the ratchet.
        
        Thus you give millions to bluescape steel to “decarbonise”, by building another coal fired smelter in Australia….
        
        This is also how we got co-governance and the path to carbon zero….
        
        Meaningless short term concessions are never meaningless for those playing a long game.
        
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        October 7, 2023 11:31am
- wsk12345
  
  It’s easy to virtue signal That they will Fast track
  Permits. But given it’s a largely competitive market, nobody will Apply for them. On shore wind is economic – though often units are switched off due to too much wind – so why would any company incur all that extra cost. Can’t imagine the cost of hooking up to the grid!
  
  Numptys!!!
  
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  October 7, 2023 8:21am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Actually, onshore wind is not economic – its slanted that way to con the people.
    
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    October 7, 2023 10:37am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Well it is if you fine every other form of energy, and then subsidize wind! Voila!
      
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      October 7, 2023 11:32am
    - wsk12345
      
      You are wrong Don. On shore wind is cheap – it was economic when the price was $70/MWh and is more so now the price is more like $120/MWh.
      
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      October 7, 2023 2:25pm
      - CJames
        
        No Wsk – you don’t understand the prices at all. With the high penetration of wind, price when a lot of wind blowing $150, often around $500 – its bimodal. The raw average is around $130 – weigh the average with load and it is a lot higher.
        Currently its $150 and wind 200MW (out of 1260). Coal is doing more than wind.
        
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        October 7, 2023 2:41pm
  - CJames
    
    Agreeing with Don. On-shore wind isn’t economic unless it is built by a gentailer who can offset some hydro against it. But that margin has basically gone. If they had to sell the power merchant trading on spot market, it would be very uneconomic.
    The reason why they switch wind off is because it wants to generate when there isn’t the need for power 4am in the morning type thing. They never switch it off over the peaks. Thats when they fire up all the fossil fuel plants as wind can’t deliver.
    
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    October 7, 2023 12:14pm
    - wsk12345
      
      Well all the generators have some hydro in their portfolio so I guess we are in agreement that wind is economic.
      
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      October 7, 2023 2:28pm
      - CJames
        
        No, it isn’t wsk. The cost of wind is not covered by the income. The gentailers are using the income from hydros to cover the losses in wind. Do the numbers on the published prices for Waipipi.
        
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        October 7, 2023 3:28pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        You do know that during the entire generating life of a wind turbine tower, that it does not generate the amount/value of electricity that it took to manufacture it?
        They are white elephants but given flying status.
        
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        October 7, 2023 4:08pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  What stuns me is people on this blog who are generally sane and rational commenters, will cite the economy as one of the main reasons that NACT will be better stewards of the country.
  
  Along with health, education and crime, I am told these will all be so much better handled, and that is why I am to give up talking about the disastrous impacts of covid policies, hold my nose, and vote for NACT.
  
  Two parties who refuse to even acknowledge anything untoward went on and when questioned on how they would handle something in the future, basically said they would defer to the ‘experts’.
  
  Am I missing something or wasn’t it the ‘experts’ who got it so badly wrong in the first place? ‘80,000 dead’ Hendy?
  
  “Masks don’t work/I never said masks don’t work” Baker?
  
  “You all need to lockdown but I’m going for a swim” Wiles and “I’m going for a bike ride” Health Minister David Clark?
  
  What about “door to door jabs, get boosted” Bishop?
  
  What about “nobody died from the vaccine, they died of covid and there is no excess all cause mortality” Seymour?
  
  Anyway, leaving that insanity to one side. How can I vote for a party that embraces the ideology of the climate scam as strongly as the Green Party?
  
  As for all of the other key policy areas, the disastrous covid response is responsible for an awful lot of the problems in the economy, health and education.
  
  No doubt Labour were utterly crap at it anyway, but we’ve heard nothing from NACT to indicate they will do anything differently next time. And there will be a next time.
  
  So the economy will be decimated yet again, health services will be decimated yet again, education will be decimated yet again.
  On top of this, the leading party of the ‘right’ is going to promote offshore wind farms?
  
  Forgive me if my rational brain looks at all the available information and can’t see what possible difference it will make who gets into power after the election. You could slide a cigarette paper between the policies of all of them.
  
  Disappointed in politicians in NZ doesn’t get close.
  
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  October 7, 2023 8:21am
  - Pavel
    
    According to Nationals TV ads under them the economy will be doing so well I’ll be able to feed my dog sausages.
    
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    October 7, 2023 8:25am
    - Stellaboxer
      
      I feed my dogs chicken portions now a bag of frozen Woolworths own brand are cheaper than many dog foods!
      
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      October 7, 2023 10:06am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Well it is if you fine every other form of energy, and then subsidize wind! Voila!have you seen the price of dog sausage?
      
      2 years ago 6.99, now 10.50! Fortunately inflation is below 10%!!!
      
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      October 7, 2023 11:35am
      - Joe Banana
        
        I’ve had to rent my dog out to the next door neighbour just to pay the dog’s insurance premium.
        It’s more than mine and I’m 75
        
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        October 7, 2023 2:14pm
  - pdm
    
    Clan – Wiles biked about 5ks through Auckland for the swim with her `friend’ as I recall.
    
    Double hypocrisy and entitleitis.
    
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    October 7, 2023 8:38am
    - John Loveridge
      
      I haven’t noticed the ghastly Wiles subject the long-suffering New Zealand public to her big-mouthed opinions for a while. Has she finally got the message and hidden herself away, or am I just more successfully avoiding government propaganda and the MSM these days?
      
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      October 7, 2023 8:44am
      - rouppe
        
        The latter.
        
        She’s popped up now and then
        
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        October 7, 2023 9:05am
      - pdm
        
        JL – she can’t be far away.
        
        The odious Baker was on One News last night.
        
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        October 7, 2023 9:07am
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        pdm below mentioned “the odious Baker”. He seems unnaturally pale and emotionless. Has he ever been seen outside in daylight?
        
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        October 7, 2023 10:43am
    - kowtow
      
      And the newly minted knight of the order of the Branch Covidians , Sir Ashley Liealot, very publicly from the podium of sole truth declared that her companion’s swimming wasn’t swimming.
      
      Orwell would be so pissed off no one heeded his warnings.
      
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      October 7, 2023 8:51am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      She wasn’t swimming, she was paddling according to Blofeld I think.
      
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      October 7, 2023 8:58am
      - pdm
        
        Henry Blofeld aka `Blowers’ Steve/
        
        He must have thought she was a seagull.
        
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        October 7, 2023 9:08am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Wiles wasn’t swimming, but her “bubble mate” was…as Wiles admitted.
        
        Wiles said she did accept her friend had broken the rules by swimming.
        
        “It is clear my bubble mate did break the rules by going for a swim. She shouldn’t have done it, and I should have stopped her, but I am not her mum. It is, though, important people do stick to the rules.”
        
        https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/covid-19-delta-outbreak-national-leader-judith-collins-calls-dr-siouxsie-wiles-a-big-fat-hypocrite/
        
        Bloomfield lied to the public of NZ when he said that the friend was not swimming, as you can see for yourself in the embedded video clip.
        
        https://thebfd.co.nz/2021/09/09/new-zealander-of-the-year-siouxsie-wiles-unmasked/
        
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        October 7, 2023 9:25am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        pdm,
        I took it from here:
        Ernst Stavro Blofeld is a fictional character and villain from the James Bond series.
        
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        October 7, 2023 9:28am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Thanks for the correction. Yes, Wiles was ‘paddling’ and her friend was swimming. She was breaching the regulations at the time no matter how you look at it.
        Just one more example of outrageous hypocrisy.
        
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        October 7, 2023 9:46am
      - kowtow
        
        Pinky paddled but her companion was most definitely swimming .
        
        The Bold Knight of Batflu declared that in his opinion the swimmer wasn’t swimming.
        
        ‘Dr Bloomfield said he received an explanation from Dr Wiles.
        
        “I’ve had a message from Siouxsie who described what happened. From what she told me, it didn’t sound like protocols were breached, and I don’t think that the person who went into the water what they did could be described as a swim,” he said. ‘
        
        NZ Herald.
        
        One rule for us ( for which you will be persecuted and prosecuted and another rule for the medical/ scientific “in group”. )
        
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        October 7, 2023 11:51am
    - Che Guava
      
      It’s far worse than hypocrisy, it is deliberate and coordinated lying to the public while scaring them out of their wits based on nothing at all in the name of power and control. None of these people, whether central or peripheral to Covidmania, have even a shred of credibility anymore. They either don’t get it, or they were complicit.
      
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      October 7, 2023 8:58am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        You have just given a description of ‘lying bastards.’
        
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        October 7, 2023 9:30am
  - Che Guava
    
    Covid wasn’t about Covid. Those who implore people to “move on” simply don’t understand this. It wasn’t incompetence where “mistakes were made” and “learnings” came out of it all. I’m sure that there were many in “middle management” so to speak who fell for it to, so lacking in critical thinking and insight are they, or so desperate are they to play the game to maintain or increase their status.
    
    From the global level and the centres of power, it was based on malice and deception and manipulation of the people of the world based on some of the most ridiculous and implausible pretexts you could imagine. But the particular instance of Covid was really just the manifestation of an attitude and a system and a project that has been ongoing for decades or more. We just know about now, so ham-fisted was the rollout of Covid tyranny. Climate Change is another branch of the same tree, an obvious psyop to anyone with a brain.
    
    I don’t care what pronouncements are made and what prescriptions are proposed about anything else, if a politician or a party either ignores the reality or doesn’t understand it, then either way, they are not fit to be leading the country – how could we trust them when sovereignty clearly isn’t in their or our hands, and they either don’t realise or they are complicit in the corruption?
    
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    October 7, 2023 8:50am
    - mawm
      
      Che – 100 upticks.
      
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      October 7, 2023 9:37am
    - Taieri
      
      it was based on malice and deception and manipulation of the people of the world based on some of the most ridiculous and implausible pretexts you could imagine.
      ——————–
      
      But most of all it was based on stupidity. Stupidity of politicians and stupidity of people who elect them.
      
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      October 7, 2023 9:54am
      - Stellaboxer
        
        Most of all like everything else it was about money. It was the single biggest transfer of wealth from the public purse to the private sector in history.
        
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        October 7, 2023 10:20am
      - mawm
        
        Stella – money and power (control over others).
        
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        October 7, 2023 11:49am
    - lastmanstanding
      
      You are correct. Covid was an excuse for Governments to see how far they could command control and threaten the peasants. And the answer was A Lot. IMHO when not if the next pandemic strikes Governments will do the same again and the peasant will rollover. This is why Governments dont want a real inquiry. A real inquiry would reveal that protecting the old and the sick is all that is necessary and that the rest of the population can go about their lives. Not what the Elites want.
      
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      October 7, 2023 10:43am
      - goNZ1
        
        Are you saying millions of people of all ages did not die from covid, and that govts around the world should not have tried to do anything to mitigate it? So no vaccines,masks,isolation and let the disease run its course?
        
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        October 7, 2023 11:01am
      - mawm
        
        Gonz – You mean like a bad flu with bad medical advice and lethal drugs, and putting the infected with the vulnerable in the cauldron of rest homes. Add to this by calling everybody dying with covid as dying from covid, pay hospitals and doctors for positive diagnoses and use an overamplified test that makes a mockery of science.
        
        Despite all those measures the infection-fatality rate for all ages indicates that this is true, and no matter how much masking, isolation of the well and how many you vaccinate it will not change the facts. BTW there is enough evidence out there to indicate that all the non-pharmaceutical responses were ineffective if not downright harmful.
        
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        October 7, 2023 12:05pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Anyone voting NZF needs to be identified, but we can’t do that.
    We know dam well that nobody will ever admit to it.
    
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    October 7, 2023 8:54am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      Rodney Hide said he was voting NZF.
      
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      October 7, 2023 8:58am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        It is his choice, but I can’t see anyone else saying so.
        
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        October 7, 2023 9:31am
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        Replying to Steve Otto: jaded lefty Chris Trotter has also said he’s voting NZF. As have quite a few other commentators on The Daily Blog – no surprise that they get plenty of shit for it.
        
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        October 7, 2023 11:20am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Why Steve? Do we need to get them to ‘reeducation camp’ along with Maureen Pugh for having ‘wrong think’?
      
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      October 7, 2023 9:32am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        So they can be ridiculed when Winston First starts his nonsense. 🙂
        
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        October 7, 2023 9:36am
      - Ghost
        
        Persons right to vote for who they belief in. You’re starting to sound no worse than the Americans who would disown friends and family for voting trump.
        
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        October 7, 2023 10:02am
      - rockape
        
        Maureen Pugh was never sent to a re education camp so that’s lie one. Then you don’t know that Pugh approached Luxon to ask advice on how to walk back a comment she made that was taken and twisted by Meris. What she said, and all she said was that her local council had written to Shaw asking for evidence of Man made Global warming and he had failed to provide that. Now I speak to Pugh regularly and know that as fact.
        
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        October 7, 2023 10:09am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @Ghost,
        and move to Canada. They are still in the US.
        
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        October 7, 2023 10:14am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Rockape – you can Goebbelise it any way you like.
        
        It’s reeducation camp under a different name.
        
        Speaking to Breakfast this morning, party leader Christopher Luxon revealed he’d set some homework for Pugh to undertake.
        
        “She has a reading list that I’ve asked her to go through to ensure she fully understands the science base.”
        
        Oh, just like the covid ‘settled science’ and the ‘single source of truth’? Tell me how this is any different?
        
        Luxon said he gave her the task to reinforce her already-established beliefs, denying she ever thought human-induced climate change wasn’t real.
        
        According to Luxon she was guilty of “thoughtcrime” – It’s 1984 writ large.
        
        In the dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell, the word “thoughtcrime” describes a person’s politically unorthodox thoughts, beliefs, and doubts that contradict the tenets of Ingsoc (English Socialism), the dominant ideology of Oceania.
        
        For Insoc substitute National Party and for Oceania substitute New Zealand.
        
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        October 7, 2023 10:27am
      - rockape
        
        You do talk a lot of. Bollocks about things you don’t know about !
        
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        October 7, 2023 10:56am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Ghost: “You’re starting to sound no worse than the Americans who would disown friends and family for voting trump.”
        
        I’ve been unfriended for suggesting people listen to what Trump actually said instead of listening to the media’s interpretation of what he said!
        
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        October 7, 2023 8:38pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        rockape – another erudite response. I’m picking you’re one of Luxon’s policy advisors?
        
        0 0
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        October 8, 2023 12:36am
    - Sparrow
      
      I admitted in a blog yesterday.Are you going to tar and feather me, put me in the stocks, or send men in white coats to take me away.
      
      17 2
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      October 7, 2023 9:54am
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      No, they don’t “need to be identified”. We have secret ballots in this country.
      
      5 0
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      October 7, 2023 2:52pm
  - Nukuleka
    
    Same old, same old, Clan. All very predictable and very very boring.
    
    23 11
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    October 7, 2023 8:56am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Nukuleka – my name is at the top of the post.
      
      Pro tip – don’t read it. You’re welcome.
      
      But if you feel inclined, tell me which part was wrong and why.
      
      26 4
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      October 7, 2023 9:30am
      - Jethrod
        
        (Silence was the stern reply!
        
        12 1
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        October 7, 2023 9:59am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      And I didn’t downtick you. You’re welcome to your opinion.
      
      14 3
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      October 7, 2023 10:29am
  - wsk12345
    
    The difference is we may avoid apartheid. We may have 6 more years before we need to leave the country to avoid having to sell assets to pay a wealth tax. And hopefully crime will reduce or at least crims will be locked away. That’s about it.
    
    20 0
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    October 7, 2023 9:04am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      If the worst happens, there won’t be too many buyer.
      
      12 0
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      October 7, 2023 9:31am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      wsk12345 – sadly that might be the very best we can hope for.
      
      7 4
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      October 7, 2023 10:30am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    One thing is certain and that is Peters plays to his base. He is calling for an enquiry into the mandates. I am not saying to vote for him but he knows how to get above 5%.
    
    31 0
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    October 7, 2023 9:19am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      There does need to be an enquiry into those mandates.
      That is why she ran.
      
      18 2
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      October 7, 2023 9:38am
      - goNZ1
        
        If there is an enquiry into covid, does that increase my take home pay to feed my kids,protect NZ from rogue states,keep the lights on or halt the slide into a Brown Supremacist Failed State?
        No
        
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        October 7, 2023 11:07am
    - Geoff1
      
      This is the same Peters who advocated no vaccination no parole or no benefit – hypocrite,
      
      18 4
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      October 7, 2023 10:15am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Geoff1 – whether you believe him or not, he’s changed his mind and saying what many want to hear. None of the others have. It’s a very simple equation.
        
        12 9
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        October 7, 2023 10:32am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        – hypocrite.
        
        Correct, but name an MP who is not.
        
        7 1
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        October 7, 2023 12:07pm
    - cmm
      
      I doubt he will actually do it any more than he went into Pike.
      
      Even if there is an enquiry it will be a whitewash. Nobody in any position of power will want to actually take a proper look.
      
      And that will give Winston his talking point for 2026. Remember he only needs to get 5%.
      
      10 0
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      October 7, 2023 12:58pm
- Mark Hanley
  
  There is a reason why in court you promise to tell the truth, THE WHOLE TRUTH in a court of law.
  
  There is nothing wrong with NZ Inc having ambitions to reduce pollution, people die from the fumes from cars and factories.
  
  What does matter is how you get there.
  
  Giving multi billion dollar Australian companies millions of our money to reduce carbon only makes sense to the people profiting, which is reasonable to assume includes the Labour Hierarchy.
  
  Allowing farmers to include on farm carbon sequestration will make a big difference to our carbon calculation, giving farmer access to GM pasture will improve the wealth of our country, and giving the ETS money to consumers will encourage polluting companies to look for better solutions and will help tax payers!
  
  Increasing electricity supply makes sense because electric cars are getting cheaper to buy, are much cheaper to run, and will make up the bulk of our new car sales within the next decade, so we’ll need to power them.
  
  Reducing our reliance on oil will also improve NZ’s astonishing current account deficit and our need for more borrowing.
  
  12 19
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  October 7, 2023 8:26am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    So the EVs will be powered by coal. Makes sense to me.
    The whole thing is yet another scam.
    
    19 8
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    October 7, 2023 9:01am
    - Mark Hanley
      
      Steve. Pls read paragraph 6 in my post above.
      
      9 2
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      October 7, 2023 9:33am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Increasing the supply will be needed for sure, but the power will still be generated from coal. Hydro is out, wind is variable, as is solar.
        Nuclear won’t happen for 50 years.
        
        13 1
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        October 7, 2023 10:19am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Steve. Thx for reading my paragraph.
        
        Now KBers need to start reading between the lines.
        
        National have promised to change the resource management act to fast track renewable energy projects.
        
        Renewable energy investments to be Consented within a year and the consent lasts 30 years.
        
        National certainly haven’t excluded hydro from renewable energy sources.
        
        Investors will be looking at new energy generation which provideS the best return on their investment.
        
        = HYDRO
        
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        October 7, 2023 10:35am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Mark,
        HYDRO. Won’t happen while we have the are the Greens, save the snails, skinks, save the trees and dickie birds.
        The Greens cause so much shit in NZ
        
        12 1
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        October 7, 2023 10:43am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Steve. I’ll take that bet.
        
        $100 says we’ll have a new hydro project during Nationals next term.
        
        Luxon is too clever to believe wind will power NZ.
        
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        October 7, 2023 10:50am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @Mark 10.50.
        
        Where will Hydro go? The Lake Onslow idea is just a University brain fart.
        Pumping water back uphill? Sure the idea works, but realistically it won’t happen.
        I can’t think of a place for new Hydro. Then there is the appeasing of the Taniwhas!
        
        Best you keep your $100 and invest it in Hydro.
        
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        October 7, 2023 12:18pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        https://www.hydroreview.com/world-regions/asiaoceania/meridian-hydro-project/
        
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        October 7, 2023 12:38pm
      - wsk12345
        
        There are many many options for new hydro – but none of them will be built.
        
        Between the greens and their supporters (such as the central Otago painter) and DOC, they will never get across the line. I suspect that with inflation in recent years and massive increases in labour costs that the economics of hydro will also rule it out. The hydro plant we have was NEVER economic when built, none of this big dam plants will be paid off if they are there 100 years. And the economics will be much worse today.
        
        So great leaves us with coal, gas and nuclear. 20 years to socialise the idea of small scale nuclear… gas is out of the equation over that timeframe, so it will be coal, 💯 %.
        
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        October 7, 2023 2:44pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @Mark 12.38,
        Sure north of Westport – but anywhere in New Zealand you still have to get past the Greens and other flakes!
        Trouble is New Zealand has let these losers take control of what can and happen.
        World ends in 10 years you know – so why bother doing anything?
        Fuck!
        
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        October 7, 2023 3:26pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        I know power companies have a pipeline of generation projects which they bring on line when it makes economic sense
        
        The pipelines includes hydro so it is obviously profitable.
        
        We will have a new government in a month which has done the work to hit the ground running, which has a team of capable ethical Ministers, which has a stated focus on outcomes, which is vowing to smash gangs and bring down house prices (I haven’t seen any party take on these two difficult goals before), who have listed a pipeline of infrastructure projects along with an organization structure to complete the projects outside the massive limitations the public service presents, and which has a proven BIG CHALLENGE LEADER.
        
        Whilst I understand the last 6 years has lead to a lot of KB negativity.
        
        Isn’t it time you all switch from whinging amd denigrating to learning about the many good things Mational and ACT are doing, and then using your collective wisdom to help the incoming government make NZ a cracker again.
        
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        October 7, 2023 5:14pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        I doubt Mokihinui will be built any time soon.
        
        The run of river project down Haast way is more likely.
        
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        October 7, 2023 8:45pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    The climate scam is next level ideological madness. As is the idea that we can change our fleet to electric vehicles and it will be net positive.
    
    With current technology and limits on available resources, any such move will be a massive net negative for the vast majority of people.
    
    I posted a couple of days ago about insurance rates in the UK jumping from 1k to 5k per year due to risk of fire and high cost of repair in event of damage in a crash.
    That’s just one in a very long list of reasons why going down that track to ‘save’ the climate is ideological lunacy. Luxon is fully onboard which is a massive concern.
    
    It is policy that will do more damage to most people’s lives than even the covid policies did.
    
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    October 7, 2023 9:27am
    - Mark Hanley
      
      Clan. As per my previous posts there is little doubt that the anthropogenic climate disaster scam (perpetuated by Adern and Labour) is the biggest fraud in the history of mankind (I posted a clip by Neil Oliver which is worth searching up and watching as he describes the scam well)
      
      Just as there is little doubt Adern is responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of Kiwis (we are reported as having the worst excess death rate in the world).
      
      However, it is time for genuine KBers (the party spin doctors infiltrating KB won’t STOP) to stop Tarring Luxon and National with the Adern brush.
      
      There are enough clues that Luxon and the rest of his ministers have great expertise and (to date) exemplirary morals.
      
      It is time to stop making stuff up or telling a part truth to unfairly criticize the only option we have to right the good ship NZ.
      
      GIVE LUXON AND NATIONAL A CHANCE. THEY ARE YOUR ONLY OPTION.
      
      And Clan. I promise I will continue constructively pushing National and ACT to conduct the crowd sourced covid review and TOW referendum once the election is over.
      
      25 3
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      October 7, 2023 9:44am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        The video by Neil Oliver is very good. I like him. Scottish, but a very clear voice. There are quite a few on Youtube.
        
        12 2
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        October 7, 2023 10:26am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Mark Hanley – I live in hope, not a lot, but I try and stay positive.
        
        So Luxon is playing politics by avoiding speaking the truth about controversial policies around covid and climate?
        
        Presumably because he thinks he will win more votes by taking that direction? If so, he has to accept that he will lose the votes of those who hear what he does (and doesn’t) say and disagree with him vehemently.
        
        He’s presumably an intelligent man and presumably has good political advisors to help him make these decisions.
        
        I’m presuming they got it all right? I guess we’ll find out!
        
        13 3
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        October 7, 2023 10:40am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Fingers crossed!
        
        9 3
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        October 7, 2023 10:52am
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        OK, we hope you will lead by example by not “making stuff up or telling a part truth to unfairly criticize”. Or are National Party activists exempted from this shining code of conduct?
        
        When you bellow that Luxon and National are YOUR ONLY OPTION, it’s eerily reminiscent of the Ardern government claiming to be our sole source of truth. And when you promise voters you will push the Nats and ACT for a covid review and a TOW referendum, I wonder if you’re overestimating your influence on their policies.
        
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        October 7, 2023 11:39am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Pope. National party activists certainly don’t recommend KBers give their vote to National or Act.
        
        Intelligent voters know that ACT will need National to govern and that only National will be expected to deliver their policies. Seymour (as with all minor parties) can say what he likes in the knowledge only one or two ACT policies will see the light of day.
        
        Hence my comment on National being our only hope.
        
        And Pope, what is the alternative to believing you can influence the government then putting effort into improving our great country…..
        
        Should we all just give up and sit in a room writing negative nonsense posts on Kiwiblog.
        
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        October 7, 2023 12:17pm
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        We know enough about the Nats and Luxon to know that a party vote for them is a vote for continuity. The Nats have little interest in pushing back in the culture war, so the woke left wins by default. If you want to change the country’s trajectory for the better, the only party vote options are ACT or NZF – I opted for the former. And yes of course I voted for my local Nats candidate, underwhelming as he is.
        
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        October 7, 2023 3:27pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Regardless, the “solutions” are unworkable and unaffordable. They will cause inevitable mass chaos. The climate loons/grifters will try boiled frog technique and hope the brainwashed young will adapt to their road to poverty/misery schemes. The young are more spoiled and pampered than ever and will go apeshit once their luxuries and comforts are banned.
        
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        October 7, 2023 8:42pm
  - Cassandra
    
    EV cheaper to run? Whole of life cost? Incl or excl tax?
    
    5 0
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    October 7, 2023 1:48pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Inconvenience also? Filling up at the petrol station takes me on average approx 6 mins to get another 700km of travelling.
      
      2 0
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      October 7, 2023 8:50pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Virtue signaling. Wind power is uneconomic and the only applications for any permits will be from parties who want to have their eco-fascist fingers in my wallet.
  
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  October 7, 2023 8:27am
  - kowtow
    
    No doubt the made up ‘principles’ will allow certain folk to clip the ticket along the way too.
    
    18 1
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    October 7, 2023 8:55am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      kowtow – follow the money, every, single, time.
      
      10 2
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      October 7, 2023 10:41am
  - Nickc2
    
    Yep, if there were no subsidies, there would be no so-called renewable energy.
    Wake up you wankers, Nuclear’s the go!
    
    13 1
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    October 7, 2023 9:01am
  - Che Guava
    
    Green energy isn’t supposed to give us reliable clean energy, it is supposed to serve as a pretext for why we don’t have enough energy to live the kind of lives we did before we went “Green,” and to justify the monitoring and direction of people’s behaviour in the name of “keeping granny’s lights and heater on.” Sounds familiar doesn’t it?
    
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    October 7, 2023 9:04am
    - Stellaboxer
      
      What did socialists use to light their houses before candles? ….. Electricity
      
      16 0
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      October 7, 2023 10:39am
      - greybeard
        
        That’s good !
        May I use it?
        
        8 0
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        October 7, 2023 11:59am
      - Don Beckett
        
        There’s no copyright on comments. 🙂
        
        6 0
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        October 7, 2023 1:34pm
  - wsk12345
    
    On shore wind sites are economic. Even if you forced them to pay costs for frequency keeping etc.
    
    [Mod – corrected food for wind]
    
    7 4
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    October 7, 2023 9:11am
    - wsk12345
      
      Sorry that was on shore WIND sites.
      That’s a new autocorrection for me 🙂
      
      [Mod – fixed ]
      
      9 0
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      October 7, 2023 9:20am
    - krazykiwi
      
      No, neither are economic. Refer The Rising Cost of Onshore Wind, and Offshore wind: Cost predictions and cost outcomes
      
      In New Zealand, to the best of my knowledge, none of the wind generators pay transmission costs, and none of the business cases factored in whole-of-life asset repair, replacement and decommissioning.
      
      Wind generated electricity simply isn’t economic, and throwing any public funds at it is virtue signaling idiocy that drives up energy prices thereby impeding economic growth.
      
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      October 7, 2023 4:52pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Here’s another paper: Wind Power Reassessed: A review of the UK wind resource for electricity generation. Notwithstanding it relates mostly to the UK, but look at this:
      
      A model of wind operation across the northern European plain and covering Belgium, Holland, Denmark and Germany shows much poorer performance. Both fleets suffer intermittency Wind Power Reassessed: A review of the UK wind resource for electricity generation and variability problems similar to those of the UK. Unifying all three fleets by installation of European interconnectors does little or nothing to mitigate the intermittency of these wind fleets. For the combined system, which has an available power output of 48.8GW:
      
      • Power exceeds 90% of available power for 4 hours per annum,
      • Power exceeds 80% of available power for 65 hours per annum,
      • Power is below 20% of available power for 4,596 hours (27 weeks) per annum,
      • Power is below 10% of available power for 2,164 hours (13 weeks) per annum.
      
      Forget generation inefficiencies, or power loss during transmission, the total system generation is below 20% for more than half of every year. That would be like decommissioning 3 of Benmore’s 6 turbines indefinitely (bullet 3), and only having all 6 running for one day in the year (bullet 1).
      
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      October 7, 2023 5:09pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  NUCLEAR!
  Repeat the word often enough and the fools may wake up.
  
  33 2
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  October 7, 2023 8:29am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Nuclear is too expensive now. When the SMRs are developed the price should come down. Aussie will get them first.
    
    18 1
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    October 7, 2023 8:36am
    - Colville
      
      So if we start talking about it today we might have one in 20 years?
      That will be 10 years too late but better than not at all.
      
      16 0
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      October 7, 2023 8:46am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        In 20 years we will be saying “who is responsible for not doing this?”
        
        14 1
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        October 7, 2023 9:04am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      We need it now, and it ain’t going to get cheaper ever.
      Another first for NZ, first to ration or run out of electricity.
      
      11 2
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      October 7, 2023 9:03am
      - kiwikidsnz
        
        I’ve said this before: start building transmission to the NI from Manapouri now.
        
        11 1
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        October 7, 2023 9:10am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Kiwikidsnz.
        That makes sense, we can’t move Manapouri.
        But things that make sense take a long time to get off the ground because of once again, Govt regulation.
        Out there, doing it does not apply.
        
        11 1
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        October 7, 2023 9:44am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        It is not available now. We must wait till Aussie does in the next ten years. The oceans will not boil in the next ten years.
        
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        October 7, 2023 12:13pm
      - Ghost
        
        They’re boiling now, people are dying every hour from climate, omg it is getting bad. Oh hang on *turns off tvnz*. Better now
        
        10 0
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        October 7, 2023 12:19pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @kiwikidsnz,
        Building that transmission would have to include replacing the Cook Straight Cable.
        It needs fixing yesterday, it leaks oil (cooling)
        
        6 0
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        October 7, 2023 12:31pm
      - Burtland
        
        for NZ to replace coal, oil and gas, we need about 18 new Manapouri’s
        – 1.5 Manapouri’s to charge a 4M light vehicle fleet
        
        the transition to ZeroCarbon is massive
        
        7 0
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        October 7, 2023 1:00pm
      - wsk12345
        
        Kiwi kidsnz- already happening. Check out Transpower’s planning reports. First stage is complete up to Clutha area.
        
        5 0
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        October 7, 2023 2:52pm
- krazykiwi
  
  The right way for Luxon to deal with this issue would have been like this:
  
  “We know there are a few parties interested in offshore wind generation. Our reading of this is that it is not an economic way to generate electricity, but we are keen to let the market decide and to perhaps prove us wrong. We will look favourably on any party that wants to invest in this line of business, but we will also be very clear that their internal business case must make no provision for state subsidies in any form”
  
  Job done.
  
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  October 7, 2023 8:34am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    What subsidy is Luxon proposing to provide to these wind farms?
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300984155/national-to-fast-track-offshore-wind-farm-regulations-permits–luxon
    
    Looks heavy on rhetoric. I can’t see anything about subsidies, well nothing specific. I can’t see anything about Crown investment.
    
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    October 7, 2023 8:41am
  - Dudley Quaffquaff
    
    Not the precise words, but in meaning that’s exactly what Luxon said. There’s nothing in his statement about mandating, let alone subsidizing, offshore wind.
    
    12 2
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    October 7, 2023 8:55am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Exactly. Same with covid. It would take less than a minute to write up a simple statement acknowledging problems and harms and that a response like that won’t happen again.
    
    Why do they seem to have so much trouble conveying their message?
    
    16 2
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    October 7, 2023 9:19am
    - Stellaboxer
      
      “ Why do they seem to have so much trouble conveying their message ?” Because it’s not their message, they don’t want to admit that they were wrong and they may be told to do it again.
      
      8 1
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      October 7, 2023 10:45am
- thirteenstars
  
  Net Zero is an international death cult because it will impoverish and eventually kill healthy economies and as a consequence make sure that those who live in poverty around the world remain in poverty.
  
  The Greens and their Internationalist comrades know that. Their goal, which they have never been afraid to talk about, is to radically reduce human population and foment an anti-industrial revolution, which for those paying attention is already under way.
  
  Luxon and his Teals think they can have their cake and eat it, too; their wealth and freedom and their carbon-neutral “market-driven” brave new world.
  
  Ain’t nothing market-driven about any of this. Without that massive transfer of wealth from the productive sector to the subsidised sector and the regulatory framework to limit choice none of this would be possible, and the extent to which it is made possible we are impoverished through higher and higher energy prices, inflation, and the subsequent loss of opportunity in countless ways.
  
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  October 7, 2023 8:58am
- peterwn
  
  Is Stan the guy who started a contracting business. When it got its first job, Stan turned up to the site, pulled several shovels from the boot of his car and handed them to his workers and told them to start digging (when I was in that game in Taranaki I always kept several shovels in the back of the LandRover so workers could not claim they forgot their shovels or they had broken. I think I got the idea from Stan).
  Actually I do not remember wind power being talked about when Stan was Minister of Works. There was some talk of tidal power (as the French were doing a scheme) and nuclear power was at the edge of the power plan period.
  
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  October 7, 2023 10:15am
- Drone
  
  Blackrock will save them .. CJames
  
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  October 7, 2023 10:59am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  What bloody difference does it make? If a company wants to build an off shore wind farm and making RMA easier, what the he’ll is the point in making it harder? Labour would off 50% of the huge cost to build the wind farm
  
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  October 7, 2023 1:02pm
- Lenticular
  
  Just build a nuclear power plant in Northland. Divide the Green movement in two and eliminate climate as an issue.
  
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  October 7, 2023 7:49pm
Bridgenag

Friday Funnies: When Push Comes to Shove –
Eat some crow.

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/friday-funnies-when-push-comes-to?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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October 7, 2023 8:05am
imalwaysright

Some rural voting booths closed on voting day.

https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/10/06/some-rural-voters-caught-out-by-election-day-polling-booth-closures/
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October 7, 2023 8:16am
- rockape
  
  In my electorate some rural places are like that
  List : Bainham 9 o t for 4 hours
  Ōakura 8 Oct for 4 hours
  Inangahua. 7 Oct for 4 hours
  Lake Haupiri 11 Oct for 4 hours
  Mahuria 7 Oct for 4 hours
  Mokihhunui 5 Oct for 4 hours
  Rotomaninitua 9 Oct for 4 hours
  Many of these have yet to receive their voting packs to inform them of this. Even in Brightwater some have not got the voting packs.
  
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  October 7, 2023 9:40am
Hugh Jarse

If Winston is the kingmaker again next week he will go with Labour again, despite his denials. Hipkins will twist himself into a knot to justify it. So NZ will have another three years with the surviving dregs of the current Labour Party, the Greens, Maori First and Winston First to choose from as Ministers.

If we are going to be held to ransom every three years by 5% of the population whoever that is, we really are up sh&t creek. We cannot run effectively as a country like that.
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October 7, 2023 8:19am
- Flossie
  
  That is exactly right! Democracy should not be five percent deciding our future. MMP is going to ruin our country.
  
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  October 7, 2023 9:08am
  - John Loveridge
    
    It’s gonna be either the 5% or the 16%…
    
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    October 7, 2023 9:36am
    - Opie
      
      A week? That would be reasonable.
      
      If Winston holds the balance of power you won’t have a government until late November and there is every chance it will be unpalatable for most
      
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      October 7, 2023 10:16am
  - Observer of Life
    
    “MMP IS ruining our country” there, fixed it Floss. You’re welcome! 😉
    
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    October 7, 2023 9:01pm
- Mrs_Right
  
  He will make us wait no doubt at least a week before making his announcement….
  
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  October 7, 2023 9:25am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Chippy has said he won’t go with NZF, but Chippy is a proven liar.
  (Nobody was force to get the vaccination)
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6UP3_jsgik
  
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  October 7, 2023 9:56am
- artemisia
  
  Reckon Labour will be happy not to lead the next government. Losing bigly in the polls, likely losing half their MPs, cupboard is worse than bare, no more $$ for the media and other mates, people are being mean to them, they are tired and need a rest for a few years.
  
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  October 7, 2023 10:48am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Agreed, his promise not to work with Labour can not be trusted
  
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  October 7, 2023 1:04pm
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  A LINO-Greens-NZF coalition is not going to happen. The so-called Greens regard NZF as “deplorables”, and both Peters and Jones despise the so-called Greens.
  
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  October 8, 2023 6:49am
Philview

I just read Tova’s article about Chris Luxon this morning. No doubt she wrote that a while ago and I wonder if this is the first salvo of a massive attack on Chris. I recall a Cam Slater article from a couple of years ago saying that Chris had strong links with a church that will be used against him at a future point. I wonder who fed Tova the story!
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October 7, 2023 8:24am
- wsk12345
  
  When did it become a crime to be churchy?
  
  I guess same time it became a bad thing g to be white, male, successful.
  
  Link to article?
  
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  October 7, 2023 9:13am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Here ’tis:
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300984267/christopher-luxon-condemns-views-of-us-christian-group-he-once-visited
    
    More anti-Christian vitriol. Has anyone asked Labour MP Ibrahim Omer on his views as to homosexuality?
    
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    October 7, 2023 9:37am
    - Matt Long
      
      Christians repeating what the Bible says and Christians have believed for millennia, how disgusting is that?
      Obviously Christians should affirm “homosexuality, lesbianism, bisexuality, bestiality, incest, fornication, adultery, and pornography” as the highest forms of human expression to keep Tova and Shaneel onside.
      
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      October 7, 2023 11:38am
- rouppe
  
  It’s time someone pushed back on the binary line of questioning that Tova employs.
  
  She’s gone: 1. You attended a church getaway; 2. Church says homosexuality is a sin (from the bible); 3. Demand Luxon state whether he thinks homosexuality is a sin.
  
  Really the answer needs to be: “I live my life based on Christian principles. I resent you constantly questioning my faith. That’s inappropriate.”
  
  “Come back to me after you’ve published interviews with Muslim candidates containing similar questions, or Hindu candidates. If you won’t do that then I can only assume that your line of questioning is based on some prejudice you hold against me, which I won’t tolerate. ”
  
  There should be plenty of easy to find examples of aspects of those – or any in fact – religions that can be presented in a similar vein.
  
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  October 7, 2023 9:25am
  - Taieri
    
    Demand Luxon state whether he thinks homosexuality is a sin.
    ———–
    
    Why such questions are even asked these days in NZ? Of any politician?
    Homosexuality is no longer something to be ashamed of in this country, on the contrary, we have “pride” weeks, months and whatevers. Homosexuals can become members of parliament, government ministers, marry, adopt children and enjoy every other right their heterosexual compatriots enjoy. So, it doesn’t really matter what Luxon thinks in this particular area, he’s not in position to change anything, even if he’s inclined to do so.
    
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    October 7, 2023 10:53am
- nathie
  
  Recall both Slater and O’Brien have form running the “world cloud” campaign against Simon Bridges a few years ago.
  
  “Dickhead, idiot, pathetic” were bandied about for the first and only time in the MSM against a politician (sure expect this on blogs but the msm)?
  
  Incredibly unprofessional especially when the methodology used is questionable.
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/05/national-mps-doing-the-numbers-on-simon-bridges-as-newshub-poll-shows-what-kiwis-think-of-him.html
  
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  October 7, 2023 9:44am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Yes, a reminder of how grossly unprofessional and tendentious or MSM is.
    
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    October 8, 2023 6:53am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Yes, saw that. Tova doing her bit for Labour – every little bit counts.
  
  Luxon believes in God, dontchaknow!
  
  Wow, that makes him, a (say it quietly) Christian…
  
  Better not mention that to the Pasifika caucus members or their families in South Auckland who still seem to vote tribal labour, despite never, ever getting looked after.
  
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  October 7, 2023 10:13am
  - goNZ1
    
    The track record of atheist Prime Ministers is nothing to be proud of in this countries recent history.
    The relentless attack on Christianity in Western nations and its fundamental tenets continues,enthusiastically promoted by the Toverites ,while the sodomites infiltrate govt from top to bottom!
    
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    October 7, 2023 11:36am
Yvette

Mahuta has held the Hauraki-Waikato electorate since its inception in 2008 and is the country’s longest continuously serving female MP. She isn’t standing on the party’s list and the fresh challenge from Maipi-Clarke could see the MP of 27 years ousted from Parliament.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/10/04/nanaia-mahuta-in-danger-of-losing-electorate-poll-shows/

National admitted that while the man who was trespassed was a National Party member, he simply went to Maipi-Clarke’s home to offer congratulations for recent high polling numbers.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/10/06/te-pati-maori-candidate-got-at-for-political-reasons-tamihere/

If I lived just along the street from Ms Maipi-Clarke, I too might call along to offer her “congratulations for recent high polling numbers” – if that might encourage her efforts to oust Nania Mahuta from Parliament!
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October 7, 2023 8:25am
- wsk12345
  
  I wouldn’t as Maori seats cause overhang if TPM wins them. Hoping they get only one seat (better yet none but that’s probably unrealistic) then are wiped out by the next election.
  
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  October 7, 2023 9:15am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Sounds like even Mahuta might be gone
    
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    October 7, 2023 1:07pm
- Hollyfield
  
  I haven’t verified this, but yesterday Mike Hosking said that the Maori Party is behind in every electorate. If they don’t win a seat they are out of Parliament.
  
  If Maipi-Clarke wins the seat, Mahuta is out.
  
  But if Maipi-Clarke does not win the seat, Rawiri Waititi is out.
  
  I’d be happy with either scenario. But we can now see the motivation behind raising her profile in the public eye.
  
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  October 7, 2023 9:16am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Every electorate except Wairiki (Rawiri Waititi) for which no polls have been published. But if he was to lose, it could be “Bye bye TPM”.
    
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    October 7, 2023 9:38am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      The Labour candidate – Toni Boynton – may well give
      Waititi a run for his money.
      
      https://www.labour.org.nz/toniboynton2023
      
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      October 7, 2023 10:02am
- Conservatarian
  
  Thanks for this link. I am still not really sure what happened here. For what it is worth, I do retract my post from earlier this week in which I questioned Hana’s description of the events and implied that Mahuta campaign could have been involved in alleged wrongdoing.
  
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  October 7, 2023 12:00pm
G152

So it was a fragmentation grenade that killed the latest Putin target..
Bloody powerful grenade capable of ripping a wing off an aircraft.
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October 7, 2023 8:29am
Benedict Yu

The Greens are urging their supporters to get out and vote.

https://twitter.com/NZGreens/status/1709714945116369032?t=lVOmRR_FB4wHn-Pmt9ui9w&s=19

Surely that can’t be correct. They are saying you don’t need to be on the electoral roll. You can just show up and vote, no ID, no nothing.

What then is the point of an electoral roll?

I’m all for making voting easy, but surely there needs to be a rule that you need to be enrolled to vote 30 days before an election? Otherwise why have an electoral roll at all?
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October 7, 2023 8:30am
- krazykiwi
  
  A vote from a person not listed on the electoral role is discarded as informal, ie it doesn’t contribute to the election result.
  
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  October 7, 2023 8:40am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    So why are the Greens telling their supporters “you don’t need to be enrolled”?
    
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    October 7, 2023 8:47am
    - rouppe
      
      Because you can enrol and vote in one sitting.
      
      It’s seems a very loose arrangement for what is a very important process.
      
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      October 7, 2023 9:38am
    - thirteenstars
      
      You don’t.
      
      You just cast a special vote and your enrolment is processed when the specials are counted. Seems OK to me.
      
      I’m casting a special vote this year because I’m out of position, and when my vote is processed they will need to verify what I’ve stated on my declaration is true and that I’m actually enrolled in the electorate I say I am, in which case my vote will be counted in my home electorate not the one I voted in.
      
      The Greens are making this a big deal because their target group leans younger and many might have just turned 18. For a minor party every vote counts.
      
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      October 7, 2023 9:45am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    You can enrol on the same day you vote.
    You obviously have to show you are entitled to enrol. So I presume some sort of relevant ID would be required.
    When I voted, I didn’t have an Easy Vote card. But it was simple enough. Just name, address and birth date. All these things are on the roll and can be checked off by the polling clerk.
    
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    October 7, 2023 8:51am
    - John Loveridge
      
      Why on earth would somebody downtick this comment?
      
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      October 7, 2023 9:38am
  - Dudley Quaffquaff
    
    No, the person enrols on the spot and then votes with a special vote. The process of validating the on-the-spot enrolments and special votes takes place after the ordinary votes are counted.
    
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    October 7, 2023 8:52am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Thanks for explaining.
      
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      October 7, 2023 9:33am
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      Yes, that process would be correct. You apply to enrol, then immediately cast a special vote.
      The enrolment is processed and if valid, the special vote is counted, along with all other special votes.
      
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      October 7, 2023 10:42am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Not so KK. The rules were changed on 2020 to enable people to enrol on Election Day, and cast a special vote.
    
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    October 7, 2023 9:39am
- Sacha
  
  A long time ago (it seems) you had to register and be one the printed electoral roll ins order to vote.
  Such forward planning has been discarded for ‘joining on the day’ registration, and at the last election voters could hardly get through the door at our local primary school, because of the youngsters trying to figure out how to fill out the forms. They all seemed to have an older person helping them.
  
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  October 7, 2023 8:44am
krazykiwi

Sometime over the 6 weeks mrs kk and I were in Europe, DPF or his trusted IT wonks fixed the comment edit and delete functions. A jolly big dollop of kudos to you. The site is much easier to use now.
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October 7, 2023 8:36am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Once again the conspiracy theorists were right.
I don’t know how old this is. Emailed to me overnight.

https://realloadednews.com/2023/09/28/coverup-new-emails-prove-biden-white-house-lied-about-covid-vax-dangers-in-early-2021/
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October 7, 2023 8:42am
- krazykiwi
  
  The most flagrant peddlers of lies and obfuscations are the very authorities that as a kid I was taught to respect. Today anyone who unquestioningly accepts the utterances of political leaders, health bureaucrats or media designated ‘experts’ is a weapons grade moron.
  
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  October 7, 2023 8:51am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    At 11 I recognised socialism. I did not really know what is was but the social studies teacher kept banging on about United Nations.
    13 at high school I got caned a few times for standing up to the lies.
    I hope all of those teachers had a lovely life.//
    
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    October 7, 2023 3:33pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Steve Otto – the devastating loss in trust in so many institutions is going to wreak havoc for a while. The old saying is very true, ‘trust is easily lost, hard to get back’.
  
  I’ve posted re the Nobel Prize committee and their joining the list of betrayals.
  
  We are in a defining period of great change on this rock in the universe. Right up there with the Enlightenment. There will be much turmoil and difficult times for a while.
  
  I do have faith that our species will sort it out eventually, but we may not see it.
  
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  October 7, 2023 9:14am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Bit of a late reply.
    You can vote socialism in, but you have to fight your way out.
    
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    October 7, 2023 3:39pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Does the US or the whole World want this?

https://realloadednews.com/2023/09/10/some-things-are-scarier-than-biden-harris-says-shes-ready-to-step-up/
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October 7, 2023 8:43am
artemisia

What’s with all these taxpayer and ratepayer funded organisations massively blowing their (taxpayer and ratepayer) funded budgets. In an election year. Where have Ministers, CEOs and Mayors been for the last several years? And who is next?

Now it’s the Department of Conservation according to leaked emails.. From ZB PLUS – not sure if available elsewhere.

Leaked email: DoC proposing significant restructure, cuts

Department of Conservation has exceeded its budget by tens of millions and increasing.Chief executive Penny Nelson rejected that job cuts were inevitable saying, in an email following the budget, “this is not true. We’re not laying people off.”

However there is a staff consultation process underway covering multiple changes. Was the Opposition aware? Would we-the-voters have known if emails were not leaked? Any more concealed surprises?
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October 7, 2023 8:43am
- wsk12345
  
  Speaking of Zb plus – what do people think of it? Worth subscribing?
  
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  October 7, 2023 9:24am
  - artemisia
    
    I subscribed for a year. Mainly to support the national treasure editor and hopefully decent journos, so far so good. Some news, some opinion.
    
    Monthly subs available.
    
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    October 7, 2023 10:02am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  “we’re not laying people off… yet”.
  
  There fixed it for you. Of course she has to say that, and of course there will be layoffs. To admit it would be to acknowledge:
  
  a) consultation is (and always is) a farce played to to manage legal risk
  
  b) DoC like many other bureaucracies has fattened up its head office staff like you wouldn’t believe. Thousands of extra bureaucrats all attending meetings and Hui and writing notes to each other.
  
  Guess the happy time is over, and the public service knows it has to get back to work?
  
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  October 7, 2023 10:18am
- Drone
  
  artemisia I’m sort of tempted to ask why should we care, but I do. The role of DoC has changed over the last decade as parks are handed back to the iwis to administer Te Urewera is an example. this obviously reduces the cost of running DoC. The rising costs of maintaining huts, pathways and bridges in wilderness areas is a concern but over the next year or two the cost of fuel and restrictions on the use of private vehicles will seriously reduce the number of NZers utilising the parks, reducing the need for as much DoC involvement.. //
  
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  October 7, 2023 11:17am
  - Nickc2
    
    …… and this will result in the build-up of undergrowth resulting in bushfires, etc.
    No worries though, Whitey will rebuild the tracks, bridges, and huts, even where there weren’t any in the first place. This will result in a win-win to Maori yet again.
    Who are the mugs?
    
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    October 7, 2023 11:34am
- Dougal10
  
  DOC budget is getting topped up via the broke ski field . Govt gives them money then they give it to DOC for the use of the mountain .
  
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  October 7, 2023 11:37am
- NothingLeft
  
  DOC spending $3500 per employee to learn Maori maybe wasn’t best use of funds?
  
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  October 7, 2023 1:19pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Let’s hope all those newly proficient Maori speakers enjoy their redundancy.
    
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    October 7, 2023 9:07pm
Tony Stuart

The National Party has publicised a message from Mongrel Mob life Member Harry Tam. It begins:

Election Update. I had a call from an inmate from one of the prisons to say that his whole unit of 45 inmates voted today. Apparently they all electoral voted Labour and Party voted Greens

https://twitter.com/NZNationalParty/status/1710172805416038633/photo/1

I’m calling bullshit on this claim. For a start, inmates sentenced to more than three years imprisonment are not eligible to vote. Secondly, how many people get sent to prison these days for a term of less than two years? They all get Home D instead, thanks to Labour’s refusal to lock people up.

It beggars belief that you could have a single unit of 45 prisoners, all serving between two and three years, so Tam’s claim simply doesn’t stack up. Labour will be pissed off though, if prisoners are only giving them a candidate vote, and not the party vote; all that collusion with Tam hasn’t worked!
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October 7, 2023 8:43am
- pdm
  
  Inv – a pretty poor return on taxpayers money dished out to Tam and his cronies.
  
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  October 7, 2023 9:25am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Remand prison? I think prisoners remanded in custody are still “innocent until proven guilty”
  
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  October 7, 2023 9:55am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Nothing more than a Labour/Greens ad.
  
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  October 7, 2023 10:33am
Paulus

Two former National voters last evening, after a very well attended NZ First meeting, in their Village, and tea, said that they understood that Peters would only accept Deputy Prime Minister, Minister for Overseas Travel and Shane’s $3 billion Maori slush fund.
They are not sure now that he will hold balance of power.
I commented not to be reported here.
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October 7, 2023 8:44am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

This transistor shit is getting out of hand.
Is it happening in NZ or are they scared of getting a hiding?

‘DEFEATED YOUNG LADY’: MOM TEARS UP DESCRIBING NIGHTMARE AFTER MALE JOINED HER DAUGHTER’S SWIM TEAM

[Mod – fixed link]
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October 7, 2023 8:51am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Link broken.
  
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  October 7, 2023 9:09am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  https://thepatriotchronicles.com/news-for-you/defeated-young-lady-mom-tears-up-describing-nightmare-after-male-joined-her-daughters-swim-team/?
  
  Needs that last question mark. I deleted too much shit.
  
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  October 7, 2023 10:40am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  OK, maybe this:
  
  https://thepatriotchronicles.com/news-for-you/defeated-young-lady-mom-tears-up-describing-nightmare-after-male-joined-her-daughters-swim-team/?utm_source=jeeng&utm_medium=email&jem=5596286a44ea9f593ce7c9d617cc601c&trigger=click
  
  6 0
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  October 7, 2023 10:48am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Rather messy but got there.
    
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    October 7, 2023 10:49am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Thanks Mod.
  You can remove the other two comments and links if you wish.
  
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  October 7, 2023 12:52pm
ClanMcleod

Anyway, I’ve voted so time for me to move on from the NZ election and politics, it will be what it is.

Back to the globalism driven collapse in trust of so many respected institutions, add the Nobel Prize to the list.
As we’ve seen during covid, ‘science’ has been bought by pharma. They’ve now got the Nobel Prize.

It’s no longer science, it’s marketing.

The Nobel Prize for Karikó and Weissman may boost confidence in mRNA vaccine research. The Nobel Committee hopes so, too: a Nobel Prize for these vaccines against Covid-19 could encourage hesitant people to opt for vaccination in the reassurance that it is effective and safe, explained panel member Olle Kämpe.

So the prize for medicine was given to boost ‘confidence’ in the experimental gene therapy? And to clarify, these two didn’t invent mRNA, that was Robert Malone.
Apparently the reason it could never get a product to market was that they had problems with it triggering severe immune responses. They claim to have found a way to stop that. It would appear from the evidence to date that they are talking crap.
Damage to innate immune system is one of the major concerns with this jab.
As a side note, check out the endorsement.

This is a wonderful choice of Nobel Prize,” says Anthony Fauci, former director of the U.S. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, who had Weissman as a fellow in his lab. “

As another side note:

The first regulatory authorizations for mRNA vaccines were given in December 2020 to Pfizer and BioNTech (which employed Karikó as senior vice president until recently)

No conflict of interest whatsoever……/s

The impeccable Eugyippius strikes again.

In accordance with Nobel’s requirements, laureates in physics, chemistry, medicine and literature are nominated by dedicated Swedish academic committees; a Norwegian Nobel Committee appointed by the Norwegian parliament awards the peace prize. That the committees are guided by political considerations no less than by objective criteria is especially clear from their long and dubious list of Peace, Literature and Economics laureates, which all too often express the drab, flabby internationalist liberalism and the impoverished aesthetic sense that plagues contemporary Europe. It should be no surprise that the Nobel for medicine, in the wake of the politicisation wrought by the pandemic, has been corrupted by similar forces.

https://www.eugyppius.com/p/nobel-prize-awarded-to-mrna-researchers
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October 7, 2023 9:05am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I commented on this a couple of days ago. Typically the Nobel Prize for Medicine or Physiology is awarded many years or decades following a scientific discovery because it takes that long to understand its significance. For example the researchers who discovered the Hepatitis C virus received the award about 20 years following their research.
  
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  October 7, 2023 9:13am
  - MCōs
    
    I think you’ll find these people have been working in that field for a very long time.
    The research behind the covid-19 vaccine wasn’t done overnight
    https://www.pennmedicine.org/providers/profile/katalin-kariko#:~:text=Meet%20Dr.%20Kariko,to%20prevent%20COVID%2D19%20infection.
    
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    October 7, 2023 10:50am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    BY – so the Nobel committee have effectively destroyed their reputation by stating that they are giving the prize as an endorsement of a product with a dubious record and a controversial history.
    
    It’s an astonishing admission, but based on many of their other awards, it seems they have sold out to those with political agendas some time ago.
    
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    October 7, 2023 10:51am
  - Paulus
    
    Why not, Obama was awarded the Nobel Prize as soon as was so called elected !
    
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    October 7, 2023 11:19am
- Che Guava
  
  For me, it was never about how good/bad, safe/unsafe it was. The implication in that line of reasoning is that if product X is safe and effective, you must get X. Nope.
  
  I didn’t get vaccinated simply because, like everyone, I have a right to determine what does and doesn’t go into my body, and the argument that everyone must get vaccinated so that everyone protects each other is completely illogical on its face.
  
  A combination of the flagrant denial of my human rights and utter irrationality of the argument for universal vaccination was what convinced me. It was largely irrelevant how good the vaccine was (not very) or how severe the virus was (not very), factors which seem to form the basis of much of the arguments for and against, probably because the factors I invoked are so unimpeachably valid to any reasonable person.
  
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  October 7, 2023 9:18am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    It was a an episode of madness.
    
    In principle, there is a much stronger case to mandate MMR vaccines for children than COVID vaccines for adults. (I would not support compulsory MMR vaccines, although I think parents who don’t vaccinate their kids are stupid.)
    
    Compare these features with the COVID vaccines….
    
    MMR vaccine…
    
    95 percent effective, and with sufficient coverage will literally end measles in a country.
    
    Prevents death in about 1 in 1000 kids who get measles, and blindness and eye damage in others.
    
    Prevents illness and lost school attedance that would otherwise affect almost every child if measles were endemic.
    
    50 years of data on safety and effectiveness.
    
    …. Yet the government gives parents the right to say NO.
    
    … while mandating a COVID vaccine that had none of those benefits, the most important being it did not stop infection with the COVID virus. 😳
    
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    October 7, 2023 9:43am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      It all became a socialist experiment of control. See how far they could push us before we pushed back. If the second wave comes and the bullshit starts – DO NOT COMPLY!
      Pricks like Coster saying you will go to jail mean nothing.
      
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      October 7, 2023 10:55am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The biggest joke of mankind is that computers have started asking humans to prove that they aren’t a robot.
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October 7, 2023 9:10am
Clown

I wish NZ had a party with a clear roadmap. There’s a significant amount of people who are tired of left wing ‘feels’ politics. There needs to be a party with clear goals and zero compromises;

1) Adjust tax brackets (make first 15K tax free)
2) Jail all gang members/confiscate gang assets
3) Ban gang patches (instant 3 year jail term)
4) Bring back death penalty
5) Pull out of Paris agreement (and any other BS ‘climate change’ propaganda’)
6) COVID enquiry and prosecution of traitors like Siouxsie Wiles, Jacinda Arden and their pet terrier Bloomfield
7) Make guns easier to own, scrape gun register
8) Free abortions
9) EQUALITY for every NZer – no co-governance BS, everyone’s needs are met
10) ‘Elon Musk’ treatment of government staff- fire at least 70% of the leeches, especially those in HR, diversity and inclusion, and ‘climate change’.

Can we have a party like that? Does ACT have the guts to enact some of those policies? Probably not – too ‘racist’ and ‘far right’
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October 7, 2023 9:15am
- Colville
  
  Is a Lions club badge a gang patch?
  Seems like it to me.
  What about the AA badge my old man has on his car?
  3 years inside would be rough on him!
  
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  October 7, 2023 9:40am
  - thirteenstars
    
    Oh, that’s scaremongering! Such a law could never be used for political purposes. The police and courts can be trusted to not misinterpret or stretch the meaning of such an important public-spirited measure.
    
    But doesn’t this divide NZ into two classes, those entitled to freedom of speech and those not so entitled? Why, yes, that’s exactly what it does–yip, yip–but we have a gang elimination strategy so tough titty.
    
    But since you raised it, let’s talk about those reactionary Boomers down at the Lions Club…
    
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    October 7, 2023 12:04pm
- Hard Cheese
  
  Hmmm…1) I would like to see it but 15K threshold is unaffordable 4) will never happen
  
  I agree with the rest of them except 7) and 2) I would like to see NZ use the El Salvador method on gangs but too many bleeding hearts for that.
  
  Does that make me “far right”? I never thought of myself as far right.
  
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  October 7, 2023 10:54am
- MCōs
  
  ‘Jail all gang members’
  
  You’re going to have to figure out a definition of *gang* first.
  
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  October 7, 2023 11:04am
  - Keith White
    
    Already done.
    
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    October 7, 2023 1:15pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  8) The lazy will use that as a contraceptive measure.
  4) Make sure the prosecution is correct, not corrupt.
  6) Covid enquiry right through to a Nuremberg 2.0. (won’t happen.)
  10) Clean our the Public Sector and keep it clean, no freeloaders.
  9) Stop the advancing apartheid. Everyone should study http://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi
  
  11) Train and arm the Police. Visible firearms are a deterrent.
  12)Give Security Guards the power of arrest instead of being mannequins.
  
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  October 7, 2023 11:13am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “8) The lazy will use that as a contraceptive measure.”
    
    Abortions are already “free” and the abortion rate has been declining for 20 years.
    
    9 1
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    October 7, 2023 11:42am
    - Colville
      
      …and talk to someone who has had one and its not something they would wish upon their worst enemy.
      
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      October 7, 2023 4:47pm
Gravelroad

Just a thought – but perhaps the time has come in this election campaign for the disaffected, disappointed and negative commenters on here to lay-off criticising the National Party’s policies and candidates for a bit?
No political party is perfect. All politicians make mistakes.
But left wing voters reading here would get the impression that many contributors are generally anti most things National stands for.
Well, I’m not.
I’m voting for change – not the same divisive policies we have had for the past six years.
There has to be change leadership in thinking, expectations and action.
That won’t happen with the Labour, Greens, Maori alliance – who are all very comfortable with the status quo.
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October 7, 2023 9:24am
- Paulus
  
  It looks as though the so called media are going to get what they always wanted to destroy New Zealand by means of electing Peters into control and spoiling Luxon as they want.
  What is it with these mostly stupid highly paid women ?
  
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  October 7, 2023 11:22am
Tricati

Haven’t heard too much about this during the election campaign.
Seems bloody devious to be pushing this through just days before the election when most are focused elsewhere.
https://www.thepost.co.nz/a/politics/350085891/who-owns-water-government-about-pose-contentious-question
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October 7, 2023 9:28am
NZpatriot

The ACT party vote is falling big time. In the Curia poll last night they dropped 5.2 points down to 9.1%. Seymour’s preferred PM ranking halved from 4% to 2.

New Zealand First is on the rise, now on 6.9% up 3 points.

I wouldn’t be surprised if NZF gets almost as many seats as ACT. Seymour hasn’t had a great campaign with a lot of arrogance showing.

I’ve decided that we need a conservative voice in parliament and only NZF offers that nowadays. Seymour even said on a podcast with Holly Bennett that his own personal preference in the recent abortion law reform was to allow full-term abortions. That’s bloody disgusting and I’m simply not going to continue supporting this stuff with my vote.

I’m a free-market guy so will have to hold my nose to NZF’s skepticism of the big corporations etc but I’m willing to do it to send a message to the Nats and ACT that there are conservative voters unhappy with their social liberalism.

(Before some people say I’m a new account started solely to promote NZ First, I’ve been closely following this blog for 15 years but haven’t commented a huge amount and in every single election I have party voted ACT).
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October 7, 2023 9:30am
- Its only I
  
  Talking to a few mates in the pub has me thinking NZF will get a few protest votes for many reasons.
  Voting out not voting in.
  
  Now that NZF is running adverts promising to not go with Labour any chance I had of suggesting one of the other two is pointless. As long as whoever gets in doesn’t fuck up farming or tourism again the rest is just theatre and click bait for news sites.
  
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  October 7, 2023 10:04am
- Benedict Yu
  
  So how are you going to feel if Winston props up a Labour led government?
  
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  October 7, 2023 10:07am
  - Opie
    
    That’s the whole problem.
    
    Based on the policies published by all the parties, I am in most agreement with nz first.
    
    But I simply don’t trust him not to go with labour. I don’t care how many youtube video he makes saying they won’t.
    
    Does my head in that a party with 6-8% of the vote has full control of the country.
    
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    October 7, 2023 10:55am
    - mawm
      
      It’s all about trust and Winston has lost any he had.
      
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      October 7, 2023 12:35pm
  - NZpatriot
    
    It was a legitimate concern, but on Friday he categorically said this won’t happen. Cheers.
    
    https://www.nzfirst.nz/2023_election_commitment
    
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    October 7, 2023 11:59am
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      Oh well, if he said it categorically then it must be much more true and trustworthy than all the other promises he’s not kept
      
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      October 7, 2023 12:32pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      Peters has made a long career out of lying, dissembling and bullshitting about his actions and intentions – he’ll always do whatever it takes to get elected and then fuck the country over once he gets a sniff of power (like 3Billion wasted on provincial growth fund – AKA the NZF pork barrel fund 2017-20 on all sorts of dodgy projects). One of only MPs I can ever remember to have been censured for misleading (lying to) the house. You can’t trust him as far as you can throw him
      
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      October 7, 2023 1:24pm
  - Matt Long
    
    Every time I think of voting the same 3 choices revolve in my head; communists, eugenicists, liar. If I didn’t despise the current government so much I’d just vote for one of the minnow parties that won’t get into power.
    
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    October 7, 2023 12:03pm
- septic skeptic
  
  Remind me again, how did Ardern get to become PM? Did Labour-Green get more votes than National-Act in 2017? Or was it something else?
  
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  October 7, 2023 10:26am
  - MCōs
    
    She headed a coalition of parties with a majority of seats in the house.
    (Labour, Greens & NZF)
    Apart from the current government that’s the way it’s been since the advent of MMP
    The way things are shaping up it will be Nats, ACT & NZF in a couple of weeks and I daresay a good proportion of those who wailed and moaned about Winston going with Labour will then say what a fine chap he really is!
    
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    October 7, 2023 11:21am
- rockape
  
  In terms of leaders, who do you think least likely to be leader in the 2026 election.
  Luxon
  Hipkins
  Seymore
  Shaw
  Peters
  
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  October 7, 2023 11:44am
  - Ghost
    
    I think the only one out of those who will still be a leader is luxon
    
    Hipkins will be rolled after the election
    Seymour‘s behaviour in the election that has lost them a lot of votes will see the deputy take leadership
    Shaw will be rolled by Chlöe within a few months
    
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    October 7, 2023 11:49am
    - rockape
      
      I agree with your assessment and question if Peters will still be in the game in 3 years. Will anyone replace him
      
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      October 7, 2023 2:38pm
      - Observer of Life
        
        Rock: Casey Costello?
        
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        October 7, 2023 10:26pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/133072562/christchurch-to-host-un-climate-conference
I bet she comes back for these home-town photo opportunities !
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October 7, 2023 9:32am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Now why would 1500 Climate Change “experts” need to travel to ChCh when they group communicate easily via internet?
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/133072562/christchurch-to-host-un-climate-conference
  
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  October 7, 2023 10:10am
  - Taieri
    
    Now why would 1500 Climate Change “experts” need to travel to ChCh when they group communicate easily via internet?
    —————
    
    May be because they haven’t been to Christchurch yet and it is an attractive place, close to other attractive places that they would not be otherwise able to visit? And the food is likely to be good as well…
    
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    October 7, 2023 10:57am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    For the very same reason that BMW Jimmy went to Glasgow.
    
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    October 7, 2023 11:29am
  - cmm
    
    No doubt lots of helicopter flights on the taxpayer to see Fox glacier first hand.
    
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    October 7, 2023 3:05pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Before it melts
      
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      October 7, 2023 9:17pm
Yvette

All polls point to the New Zealand First leader as the powerbroker, although he’s ruled out Labour.
“It’s immaterial. I don’t want to work with Winston Peters. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, don’t want to do it again,” Hipkins said.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/election-2023-winston-peters-guards-path-to-power-as-hipkins-resumes-attacks-on-national-s-tax-plan.html

To be “king-maker” implies a decision can be made.
But if you have ruled out one side and it has definitely ruled you out as well, surely any decision has become a little limited
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October 7, 2023 9:34am
- Chuck Bird
  
  He sit on the cross benches.
  
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  October 7, 2023 12:39pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “king-maker” is mostly from the media I think.
  
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  October 7, 2023 1:02pm
Inandout

It appears oil protestors get treated in differnt ways, depending on the country. The screaming woman being dragged by the German Police (3.30) is obviously deranged and should be in a mental home. The other (fake) screamer sitting on the road stops screaming as soon as the Police let her sit again. It begs the question though…what are these kids being taught at school?

https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/global-affairs/furious-drivers-ruthlessly-drag-climate-activists-from-busy-highway/video/d6c9641c847f014c2d1ba44169e5746c
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October 7, 2023 9:46am
- Benedict Yu
  
  In the UK there have been several cases of drivers being arrested after getting out of their car and pushing the protestors off the road.
  
  https://youtube.com/shorts/YVwXZGR67dQ?si=TqgQRDxIX1alGUaU
  
  I’m actually surprised there have been no deaths or serious injuries.
  
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  October 7, 2023 10:10am
Benedict Yu

Winston is a master at identifying issues dismissed by other politicians, but which concern disaffected minorities.

Here he is giving a sermon on biological men competing in women’s sports.

https://youtube.com/shorts/HsWB8zzjE-M?si=jvclSve00IMPwTUJ

I am skeptical that Winston would do anything about this if he gained office. Would he stop surgical and medical treatments on children with gender confusion?

Here he is 20 years ago saying that we need to cut back on “Asian immigration” 😅

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/peters-attacks-on-asian-immigration-economic-sabotage/MQSPPSX7W7VVUYIK7RQ34F3E7M/

I am sure that there are more Asians in New Zealand today than 20 years ago.

Come the 2026 election, if Winston is still alive, he will identify a new bunch of issues.

He gets away with this because people expect it from him.

If Chris Luxon had spoken out on trans woman in women’s sport, the media would go nuts. He would be labelled trans phobic and a Nazi.
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October 7, 2023 9:59am
- Che Guava
  
  Increasingly, speaking common sense and advocating for decency in an ever more degenerate and incoherent society, as well as proposing things like actually enforcing the law and maintaining a semblance of order makes you a “Nazi.” OK. Doesn’t this imply that the popular conception of “the Nazis” is an inversion of reality, if everything that runs counter to the many problems besetting our society is ispo facto “Nazism.” I mean, look at who’s calling who a “Nazi” here.
  
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  October 7, 2023 10:16am
  - Paulus
    
    Doesn’t matter – Luxon is the enemy to the media !
    
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    October 7, 2023 11:25am
- Dougal10
  
  He has also been aided by the media , who I guess are hoping that winston will go with labour again .
  
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  October 7, 2023 11:47am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Media trying to protect their jobs – most of which are funded by taxpayer funds funneled to them by Labour.
    
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    October 7, 2023 1:27pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  There is no such thing as a trans woman If you have a cock you are a man and not a woman.
  
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  October 7, 2023 4:58pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/protesters-love-to-hate-part-5/

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Will-co-governance-drive-a-counter-revolution-The-Platform.pdf
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October 7, 2023 10:01am
emmess

Does anybody know where is the Roy Morgan poll?

https://www.roymorgan.com/findings

It is normally released in the first few days of the month.
Perhaps, it being held back
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October 7, 2023 10:18am
- PeeJay
  
  Wonder if it’s going to be released next week to tie into the final week of the campaign?
  
  I find poll’s interesting but am particularly interested in the RM poll – they were very accurate in 2020 so it will be interesting to see how they get on this time.
  
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  October 7, 2023 12:38pm
- Conservatarian
  
  The last Roy Morgan poll had ACT at 18%, National at 31% and Labour at 24%. These were real outliers. More accurately it had Greens at 12.5% and NZF at 5.5%. Will be interesting to see if it reflects the cratering of ACT to 10% or below as all the recent others have started to.
  
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  October 7, 2023 6:36pm
Vinicius

I bumped into someone I know the other day who told me they’d applied to work for the Electoral Commission during the elections as a Voting Place Manager. Ultimately, they pulled out after being selected because of multiple issues like staff recruitment was behind schedule and they’re still trying to appoint staff for key election day roles like counting advance votes. Training was not up to scratch etc.

Has anyone heard any similar stories? Perhaps this is just a one off?
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October 7, 2023 10:19am
- Benedict Yu
  
  You also need to demonstrate an understanding of the principles of the Treaty.
  
  No I’m not making that up.
  
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  October 7, 2023 10:59am
  - Taieri
    
    You also need to demonstrate an understanding of the principles of the Treaty.
    ———-
    
    A very tall order. How one can understand the principles, which have never been defined?
    
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    October 7, 2023 11:17am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Which Treaty? 1840 or post 1975?
      
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      October 7, 2023 11:38am
      - goNZ1
        
        TOW is a living document , able to be used to suit iwi as various situations crop up,enforced by the Waitangi Tribunal by some mysterious reasoning.
        
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        October 7, 2023 12:20pm
      - Taieri
        
        TOW is a living document
        ————
        
        There’s no such thing as “a living document”. The Treaty of Waitangi was created and signed to address specific problems in specific circumstances which no longer exist. It has outlived its utility a very long time ago and belongs in museum.
        
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        October 7, 2023 12:58pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @ Taieri,
        Then there is the Littlewood draft, that does not include “forestry and fisheries” They were added to the Waitangi Tribunal version by Sir Hugh Kawharu. Then Geoffrey Palmer further meddled with it.
        If the original Treaty is used, there is no forestry and fisheries. That stops the ongoing gravy train.
        Video. 53 minutes but worth the watch. Explains the whole thing.
        (even if you skip through it)
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVgY03s6Tqc
        
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        October 7, 2023 1:14pm
  - Vinicius
    
    That’s not surprising when you also read this page about the Commission’s values.
    
    https://elections.nz/about/about-the-electoral-commission/our-values/
    
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    October 7, 2023 11:26am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Should they not have one value:
      
      “Run efficient and fraud free elections.”
      
      The end. I’m serious. How can it be anything else?
      
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      October 7, 2023 12:28pm
  - rockape
    
    Yes a friend of mine was turned down for that reason.
    
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    October 7, 2023 11:48am
- kglm
  
  I too applied and didn’t complete the process. This year the recruitment has been outsourced to a consultancy and is done online (last time it was done by the EC and was based on personal interviews). The online process was difficult which is why I pulled out. I was contacted and asked to complete my application recently. I suspect the EC is short of the temporary staff required. There also appears to be fewer voting places and shorter opening hours this time, possibly because of staff shortages.
  
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  October 7, 2023 12:32pm
  - Dougal10
    
    It is starting to look like the census , it has labours poo finger all over it.
    
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    October 7, 2023 2:00pm
  - Truman lodge
    
    All the staff were migrants at my voting station today
    
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    October 7, 2023 3:35pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Yep, mine too – Newtown
      
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      October 7, 2023 9:21pm
- rockape
  
  Was a manager of about ten polling places in 2014. The training was good and the ongoing training I gave to the polling place managers was good. Part of my job was checking on polling places and didn’t see or get one complaint about the training staff had received.
  
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  October 7, 2023 2:34pm
Notsofast

Calvin Robinson gives an inside report on the Laurence Fox affair, and explains how free speech is not solved just by starting GB News. I am still listening.

https://youtu.be/nHR8ouhux7k?si=iby2fnf4xAa-f_Gz
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October 7, 2023 10:49am
Chuck Bird

Does anyone here think that Seymour’s attack on Bob McCoskrei played no part in Act going down in the polls and NZF going up?

Below is a link to David being interviewed by Bob and some on his panel. It is about 20 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZP2oQF7s6c&t=6s

In it, he calls Bob a liar and is generally very rude. Bob is upset at David standing his Deputy in Simon’s electorate. He is doing so because Simon, a strong Catholic strongly opposed his euthanasia bill.
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October 7, 2023 11:07am
- Notsofast
  
  It is his insolence towards the elder statesman in New Zealand politics that has rendered his party listers still on the job seekers benefit.
  
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  October 7, 2023 11:25am
- MCōs
  
  I would suggest it has little to do with it.
  Bob McCoskrie (to give him his correct name) is a fringe figure in ultra conservative NZ politics that few people identify with.
  
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  October 7, 2023 11:38am
  - Flossie
    
    I hadn’t previously heard of Bob McCoskrie so any comments by Seymour regarding him would make no difference to me.
    
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    October 7, 2023 11:53am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I have never heard of Bob McCoskrei, so I doubt it.
  
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  October 7, 2023 12:39pm
- Damocles11
  
  You obviously hate Seymour with a passion. This is the umpteenth time this video has been posted.
  
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  October 7, 2023 3:36pm
- Mrs_Right
  
  I voted Act and have no clue who Bob McCoskrei is.
  
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  October 7, 2023 5:26pm
- Lenticular
  
  It’s blatantly a factor, although we can debate how large. That video sealed my lack of vote for ACT. The hardline conservative / ACT crossover vote isn’t huge but it would be 1 or 2%. WP and the freedom parties must have been rubbing their hands watching it.
  
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  October 7, 2023 7:55pm
  - Damocles11
    
    Winston’s a big churchgoer is he?
    
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    October 7, 2023 9:53pm
Nickc2

I walked past the Voting Facility in the Glenfield Mall (Akld North Shore) yesterday and was very surprised by the number of Maori voting and waiting to vote. I didn’t know there were that many of them in my electorate.
IMO, something’s going down, and it appears to be organised. What could it be?
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October 7, 2023 11:26am
- Mrs_Right
  
  There is actually a big number of Maori living in Northcote.
  
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  October 7, 2023 12:04pm
  - Inandout
    
    A big state housing area and has been for many years.
    
    12 0
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    October 7, 2023 12:31pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Many Chinese and Koreans as well. I like their Festivals.
    
    12 0
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    October 7, 2023 1:17pm
- MCōs
  
  Are you saying they’re more organized than whitey and Asians who make up more than 80% of the locals?
  Shock horror
  
  1 1
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  October 7, 2023 9:19pm
septic skeptic

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home.html

Ruth Richardson talking sense on red and blue promises. If you want to help people, you tell them the truth. If you want to help yourself, tell them what they want to hear.
MMP looks set to work exactly as designed. Nobody can implement their agenda due to coalition requirements. So no chance of a 4th Reich emerging.
12 0
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October 7, 2023 12:32pm
Jude

Our family of five just voted. Those of us with easy vote cards, the process was simple . However, when we arrived there was a queue. A man at the door was asking for full name and date of birth . The person answering this question, at front of queue, had english as a second language. It took time to get the required answers. Noone said if you have an easy vote card just go on through! We jumped the queue and went on up. I can only imagine what it will be like on election day if that is the norm elsewhere. Big mistake not ensuring the easy vote forms were out before voting opens. There should be two lines , one for easy votes another for those without. Also a pen and paper to write down names would speed up the process for those with tricky names!
16 0
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October 7, 2023 12:54pm
- Gravelroad
  
  We did same today.
  There was a bit of a queue, but one of the workers came along asking if people had vote cards.
  Those who replied “no” were told to go to a separate work station when it was their turn and fill out the required details.
  Rest of us went to usual desk.
  The queue stayed the same.
  
  14 0
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  October 7, 2023 1:58pm
- Prince
  
  We still don’t have our ‘easyvote’ card – two more mail delivery days to go !
  Also, I read that rural electorates have fewer booths this year…
  ‘In nine rural electorates, the number of voting places open on election day this year is 603, compared with 664 in 2020, and 629 in 2017.’
  In my (urban) electorate, there are two places within 30 metres of each other, both open on E-day.
  Crazy.
  
  15 0
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  October 7, 2023 2:10pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Easier just to do what we do.
    My partner and me have never voted in our lives.
    
    2 12
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    October 7, 2023 2:28pm
    - Taieri
      
      My partner and me have never voted in our lives.
      ————
      
      If you don’t vote, you can’t complain later.
      
      12 0
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      October 7, 2023 3:11pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Don’t hand me that old shit. We never stop complaining 😀
        
        8 2
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        October 7, 2023 4:09pm
Trev

Re hydro generation. Luxon has said he supports the Waitaha run of river power scheme in Westland being built and that National endorses it. I don’t see ACT or NZ First objecting to this. As all the planning is done and it passed for consenting from both Iwi and DOC and was only stopped by a ministerial veto this will go ahead if there is a change of government as will some other smaller schemes.
14 0
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October 7, 2023 1:08pm
- Dougal10
  
  Nz1 were involved last time it got turned down, winnie was DP and jones regional development.
  
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  October 7, 2023 2:03pm
goNZ1

If you are getting tired of the NZ elections,have a look at Aussie where Albo and his friends in the media are desperately trying to get a Yes vote for their 14 October referendum on an Aboriginal Voice to Parliament.My experience of Aussies is that they aren’t as Woke as us and not inclined to race based policies,and the No campaign is going to be winning big time.
14 0
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October 7, 2023 1:09pm
Maggie Pie

Had to larf. Picked up my partner’s mum earlier this morning. She wanted me to drop her off in the City to partake in a bit of ‘retail therapy’.

What a digustingly filthy place that whole area has become. Dozens of degenerates sitting in shop doorways, unwashed druggies staggering around everywhere. Reminded me of a scene from downtown L A 🙁

And I keep trying to tell Ma there’s no longer any need to get all dressed-up to go into Queen St these days. Honestly, she stands out like a turd in a punchbowl.
14 2
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October 7, 2023 1:24pm
- thirteenstars
  
  “Honestly, she stands out like a turd in a punchbowl.”
  
  That might be an unfortunate simile.
  
  😉
  
  11 0
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  October 7, 2023 2:16pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    https://twitter.com/NMowbray23/status/1710466419857764683
    
    7 1
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    October 7, 2023 2:37pm
    - thirteenstars
      
      Oh, assault is rampant for sure, but in your simile your partner’s mother was the turd floating in Auckland’s punchbowl of crime.
      
      5 0
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      October 7, 2023 3:10pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Perhaps I should have just stuck with dogs-balls?
        
        😀
        
        7 1
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        October 7, 2023 3:41pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Los Auckland? Or Los Tamaki Makaurau?
  
  2 0
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  October 7, 2023 5:21pm
Diogenes

If you can’t beat them, join them.

From now on, I identify as a 35-year-old, and my pronouns are I/me.

When an online form recently asked my wife how she preferred to be addressed, she responded: “Your Majesty”. It worked. The automated reply came back, “Dear Your Majesty”. Mind you, she does have some entitlement to that, as our genealogy research has thrown up a number of English kings in her family line!
10 0
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October 7, 2023 2:07pm
Ghost

I wonder if hipkins does t support MMP? Reading what greens and Māori party want I’d call that holding the country to ransoms, but hipkins will pay that ransom if he can get into power

In a media session on the campaign trail on Auckland’s North Shore, Labour leader Chris Hipkins again took aim at NZ First leader Winston Peters.

Hipkins believed the country was fed up of being “held to ransom” by Winston Peters.

“The Labour Party won’t be working with him.”

Article
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October 7, 2023 2:13pm
- emmess
  
  “The Labour Party won’t be working with him.”
  
  Ever, until eternity?
  Your terms are acceptable.
  
  13 0
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  October 7, 2023 3:02pm
Hugh Jarse

Is it just me or is this continual defending of the National tax plan sucking the life out of their campaign. I can’t remember the last time any of the left parties had to explain a policy.
23 1
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October 7, 2023 2:15pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Apparently all the ‘polls’ say people ‘want’ a wealth tax and the msm says lo, this is so
  
  9 0
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  October 7, 2023 4:08pm
Maggie Pie

I really love Dogs. But let me tell you this, it’s going to take a lot more than ‘Pip’ to save these commie douchebags. Just saying.

https://twitter.com/nzlabour/status/1710432269578510660

>>>comments 😀 😀 😀
14 1
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October 7, 2023 2:21pm
- Nickc2
  
  The look on that Dog’s face is saying “FFS, someone get this shit from around my neck off!”
  Unfortunately, only Dog Lovers can read a Dog’s body language.
  
  9 0
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  October 7, 2023 4:44pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    My fave reply….. 😀
    
    https://twitter.com/HectorS56873303/status/1710443248769237029
    
    7 1
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    October 7, 2023 5:11pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The re-birth of NZF
      
      7 1
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      October 7, 2023 5:32pm
Truman lodge

If someone was to commit election fraud the best way to do it is narrow the polls suddenly in the final week. Have Acts support slide and talk up nz first.

On election day Nats do not do as well and neither does Act. Greens to very well and Labour does better than expected but not as well as National.

Te Pati Māori win 4 seats and NZ First get 4.8 percent of the vote giving a one seat majority to Labour/Green/Maori. Rigging the maori seats goes under the radar.

I voted 2 ticks blue today but I am convinced that we will not get a right leaning Govt… Just saying something feels off.

Of course, this is just a hypothetical right…
14 3
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October 7, 2023 3:22pm
- Damocles11
  
  Just been down to the local mall and just about everyone down there looked like they’d be a Labour supporter, lots of scruffy people with hangdog looks. Given that over 50% of the population were ‘Jacindamaniacs’ at the last election, I agree with you….I just can’t fathom how the right can get up. There are more gang members in New Zealand than farmers for instance. I think we are sliding into an abyss here.
  
  14 3
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  October 7, 2023 3:50pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Gang members still need the kai bro.
    
    4 0
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    October 7, 2023 5:39pm
  - Ghost
    
    There are around 8,000 gang members in NZ. 50,000 farms. I’ve got a friend that drives an old beat up ute. Would more than likely fall into your labour’s supporters image. He’s a multi millionaire. Don’t judge people by jow they look.
    
    5 0
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    October 7, 2023 5:51pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Genuine question.
Are there any results published from early voting?
4 2
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October 7, 2023 3:48pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Not before voting day.
  
  11 0
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  October 7, 2023 4:14pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    OK Captain. But during the day or just included in the final counting?
    Dumb questions, but I guess any votes prior to 7pm on 14th Oct could be seen as people panic voting at the last minute?
    
    5 4
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    October 7, 2023 4:23pm
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      You can see them as that if you like, but their votes count just the same as anybody else
      
      4 0
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      October 7, 2023 4:27pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Dumb questions, but I guess any votes prior to 7pm on 14th Oct could be seen as people panic voting at the last minute?
      
      The counting of early (ordinary) votes does not commence until 9:00AM on polling day. The results of that counting will be released as from 7:00PM. So, it is not possible for people, who choose to vote on polling day, to be “panic voting”.
      
      I mean, blimmen’ heck, Otto, if you voted on polling day in 2014, 2017, or 2020, did you have advance knowledge of the number of early votes that were cast for the parties? Did you feel that you were “panic voting”? Of course you didn’t.
      
      In my 10 years on Kiwiblog, I think that might well be the stupidest – or, to expand on your word, the dumbest – comment I’ve ever read. And let’s face it, you’ve made many thousands of stupid comments over the years.
      
      It’s high time you perused the Electoral Act 1993, tough guy. You can access it here: https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0087/latest/DLM307519.html. See, for a start, section 174C(5), Preliminary count of early votes.
      
      5 2
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      October 7, 2023 5:28pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Thankyou Steve Todd.
        It was unclear to me. Things do change.
        Sorry if I pissed you off – not intended.
        
        2 1
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        October 7, 2023 5:44pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Thank you for your gracious response, Steve Otto(North Shore). You’re forgiven.
        
        2 0
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        October 7, 2023 5:48pm
- emmess
  
  No, but turnout numbers have been released and was down by 50% for the first day when compared with 2020.
  
  4 0
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  October 7, 2023 4:27pm
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Early voting started on a Saturday last time and a Monday this time
    
    4 0
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    October 7, 2023 4:53pm
- Jethrod
  
  No results published before the Election but 7.01 on Sat night it all on. The early votes are counted basically “early” and are ready at 7.01 Saturday
  
  5 0
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  October 7, 2023 4:44pm
  - Conservatarian
    
    The huge advance vote will be dumped into the result tally first thing so if you tune in at 7.30 or 8pm you’ll have a very good idea of the final vote. No need for you or anyone to stay up until 11pm to watch the votes trickle in and a group of leftie talking heads pretending to call balls and strikes.
    
    5 1
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    October 7, 2023 6:46pm
    - MCōs
      
      Back in the good old days the results were drip fed over the wireless/tv until a result became clear late evening.
      I suppose it was an early form of a reality show.
      BTW
      It doesn’t matter who’s commenting after the polls close, does it.
      
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      October 7, 2023 8:25pm
Maggie Pie

‘Sexual Assault complaints soar against Uber and Rideshare drivers’

– NZ Herald

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1710392247512887520

Anyone else notice that when these drivers are identified in the media, they often look like muzzie imigrants?
Import the thurd world – become the third world
11 2
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October 7, 2023 4:06pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

So Biden had Documents but that is good,
but Trump had Documents and that is bad.
Sniff test again!

https://thepatrioticvoice.com/redbloodedconservative/biden-classified-documents-case-quietly-blows-up/
8 2
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October 7, 2023 4:19pm
- RichardX
  
  Get better sources.
  
  Your linked story states “Unlike the high-profile media attention garnered by special counsel investigations into former President Donald Trump’s identical case“.
  
  If you are too ignorant to know this is false you need to find better sources of information.
  
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  October 7, 2023 10:51pm
Nickc2

This thing was within a hair’s breadth of being the President of the USA, the World’s most powerful Nation.
Former Secretary of State and 2016 Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton said Thursday on CNN’s “Primetime” she believed there needed to be a “formal deprogramming of the cult members” who support former President Donald Trump.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/10/05/hillary-clinton-calls-for-formal-deprogramming-of-maga-cult-members/
Thanks Donald, you took one for the rest of the World.
PS: I wasn’t aware Mad Cow disease had crossed the Atlantic.
11 1
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October 7, 2023 4:34pm
Maggie Pie

Early voters out in force in Auckland City….
to think they could decide the future of this country 🙁

WATCH

https://twitter.com/chamfy/status/1710467858507981170
6 2
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October 7, 2023 4:46pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  How many times did they vote?
  Most vote and go home……
  
  3 3
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  October 7, 2023 5:49pm
- greybeard
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/news/133078356/massive-group-for-wild-night-of-burnouts-in-palmerston-north
  This lot are probably just celebrating having voted that day…..
  
  3 0
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  October 7, 2023 5:52pm
- Damocles11
  
  Why the heck are you not voting though?
  
  0 0
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  October 7, 2023 10:16pm
Maggie Pie

I PREDICT….

This time next Saturday we will have locked in Chris Luxon as Prime Minister 😀
8 2
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October 7, 2023 6:08pm
- Truman lodge
  
  MAGGIE
  
  I really hope so too. But watching the propaganda on the 6pm news which had all pro labour dancing and chippy saying the tide has turned the last week, followed by someone abusing luxon. I believe the election will be rigged and labour with the greens and Maori get a one seat majority. It’s what the media and liberal elites want.
  
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  October 7, 2023 6:15pm
  - Mrs_Right
    
    “…the tide has turned the last week” not only is he out of touch with everyday New Zealanders but also with his own campaign 😀
    
    7 0
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    October 7, 2023 7:03pm
Keith White

I predict that whoever gets in, there will be no reduction in wasteful spending, medical apartheid, resource apartheid, crime, armed criminals, anti-white racism, inflation, and medical experimentation via vaccines.
8 4
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October 7, 2023 6:18pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Yes, yes.. but with Mr Luxon at the helm all this will be achieved in an efficient, business friendly way. So much more acceptable to the tribals.
  
  5 3
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  October 7, 2023 6:38pm
- MCōs
  
  Previous governments have put the lawnmower through the ranks to save money, of course.
  A guy I know picked up some contract work doing IT work at at an exorbitant rate for the IRD because permanent staff had been let go. He was there for years, but of course he didn’t show up on the books as a public servant.
  
  3 0
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  October 7, 2023 8:50pm
Gravelroad

This evening on TV1 news there has been an item by Maiki Sherman that can only be described as solid gold electioneering for a Labour Party policy.
It concerned the possibility that the clean car discount may be discontinued after the upcoming election – and making claims as to why this would be bad.
No balance, no mention of any other policies from any other parties.
Blatant electioneering for Labour.
15 1
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October 7, 2023 6:33pm
- Mrs_Right
  
  What about the segment that followed right after the clean car discount? About National, Act and NZF wanting to bring back live exports. Followed by a poll showing 68% were against it or something like that.
  
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  October 7, 2023 6:45pm
- Prince
  
  Maiki Sherman has been doing this all election. She is a ‘diversity hire’ who relies on the PJIF for her job.
  
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  October 7, 2023 9:37pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING…Israel under attack 🙁

One of the girls from tennis has her kids at Kadimah.
She’s only just shared this with us…

https://twitter.com/ElectricBeard_/status/1710526113498153063
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October 7, 2023 6:47pm
- Philview
  
  Yes massive attack and strangely ignored by TV1 News earlier.
  
  3 0
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  October 7, 2023 9:24pm
Dougal10

Headline reads : Hipkins , we are going to surprise you and win. What did he really get up to in his week off , is the fix in?
6 1
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October 7, 2023 6:53pm
- Ghost
  
  What do you want him to say, he’s screwed? I’d be disappointed in any politician that gives up
  
  5 0
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  October 7, 2023 7:04pm
  - Keith White
    
    I’d like him to admit he and his corrupt, incompetent, racist coterie effed up unprecedentedly awfully and he’s going to stand down for the future good of our country,
    
    But that will never happen.
    
    9 2
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    October 7, 2023 7:14pm
    - Drone
      
      He’ll be PM next Sunday, no prob..
      
      0 2
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      October 7, 2023 8:39pm
Prince

Strange how Luxon visiting a Church camp 6 years ago is worthy of a hit-piece ‘Opinion’ published, but we must never mention Hipkins’ relationship bust-up with his wife earlier this year, because ‘MP’s private lives are off-limits’.
I guess it depends on what Party you represent.
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October 7, 2023 7:27pm
- MCōs
  
  I’m not familiar with Luxon’s church connections, but why should a chap’s separation from his wife be used against him in an election campaign?
  
  0 5
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  October 7, 2023 8:59pm
  - Prince
    
    Why should a chap’s visit to a Church camp six years ago be used against him ? Ask Tova.
    
    6 0
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    October 7, 2023 9:35pm
Truman lodge

Labour/Greens/Maori coalition next Saturday night. Question is how do we respond to it? Media will claim we are conspiracy theorists…If you watch the what’s happening in the media and the loose polling the fix is in.

Then over the coming years we have farmers driven off their land by zanu labour supporters. Freedom of speech gone and that’s for starters. I’m absolutely convinced about the result.

Be something like Nats 33 Act 7 Labour 29 Greens 16 and Maori to win 3 seats. Nz first 4.9 percent, these are loose percentages that don’t add up but get the drift. You watch the polling this week fall in line with similar numbers.
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October 7, 2023 8:27pm
- Ghost
  
  Damn, one poll shows a slight jump for labour with a load of bad press that week for act and national and people are pushing the panic button and inventing a rigged election.
  
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  October 7, 2023 8:38pm
Chris Nisbet

If Labour (incompetent, intent on impoverishment us all and don’t like democracy), Maori Party (racists who don’t really like democracy) and Greens (insane communists who dont like democracy) actually do manage to win this election (as predicted by Hipkins), then I guess there really is something to this idea that mis/disinformation (you know, what legacy media does for a living) can influence large masses of people.
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October 7, 2023 8:40pm
Ghost

Huh

Video of hipkins being mobbed at night market

Where? All I see is labour staff in red shirts, police and his security

Stuffed
6 0
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October 7, 2023 8:55pm
- Damocles11
  
  The media trying to get ‘Chippymania’ started?
  
  2 1
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  October 7, 2023 9:51pm
- Rich Prick
  
  We were forced to pay $55m for this sort of positivity. Thankfully Hipkins doesn’t have the facial bone structure to win over the vacuous airhead demographic.
  
  3 0
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  October 8, 2023 12:00am
NZer In Exile

Voice propagandists bullshitting Australians on true agenda.

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/voice-to-parliament/yes23-volunteers-urged-by-campaign-officials-to-change-pitch-to-australians-on-treaty-based-on-voting-intention/news-story/59f1d690cb633ce4ff30921e5f91d89c
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October 7, 2023 9:04pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  From the above link:
  
  Exclusive message exchanges obtained by Sky News Australia and the Daily Telegraph highlighted the inner workings of the campaign’s telephone canvassing operation where it uses volunteers to cold call Australians to persuade them to vote for the constitutional amendment on October 14.
  
  Alongside these volunteers are campaign officials and strategists who provide advice and ensure key talking points are hit.
  
  On her Thursday night program, Credlin showed a screenshot of an online chat over Zoom this week where a volunteer asked for a “good script about the treaty”.
  
  “I just had a chat with someone about it and kinda got caught off guard,” the volunteer said.
  
  Then an official Yes23 campaigner jumped on the line and told the volunteers: “If they are pro treaty, you can say that the Uluru statement from the heart asked for (the Voice) before treaty, if they are anti treaty, you can say that (the Voice) is a purely advisory body”.
  
  Credlin said the conversation was another example of how the Voice was “plainly” about treaty.
  
  “There it is in black and white: you tell voters that its Voice first, then treaty if they’re in favour,” she said.
  
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  October 7, 2023 9:24pm

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