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September 28, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 28 September 2023

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General Debate

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Benedict Yu

“There are currently about 9000 gang members and 10,700 police, and they both promised to keep police numbers higher than gang members.“

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/election-2023-chris-hipkins-and-christopher-luxon-come-to-life-in-fiery-leaders-debate/

This is why I don’t watch these things. They are going to tie police numbers to the numbers of gang members? 😳

Eric Crampton nailed it a couple of days ago.

“I can never tell whether some bit of idiocy is actual proposed policy, or whether a candidate was just reaching into a bag full of words in hope of getting through the next couple minutes of an interview.”

http://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot.com/2023/09/the-aristocracy-of-pull-so-long-as.html?m=1

Earlier in the evening while driving, I listened to that weird guy who chaired the debate. Telling everyone how he was going to wind them up and create a “rumble”. I hit the kill button and switched to Mahler. ☹️☹️

Meanwhile in 2025 we will be taking a census of gang members to figure out how many police to recruit. 🤯
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September 28, 2023 8:01am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  It would be interesting to know how many of the 10,700 police are busy doing “other” work such as writing speeding or parking tickets, monitoring truck driver hours, etc.
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:26am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    The other thing… “more police” is not a desirable policy objective. The other day I checked out the ratio of police to population, globally. (it is on Wikipedia).
    
    New Zealand is where you would expect. Comparable with the UK, the USA and Australia. Ireland, Germany, and Italy are a bit higher. Places like Mexico and Argentina are way higher.
    
    The point is that a need to substantially increase police numbers is not a globally recognised indicator of a high functioning country. It is somewhat the opposite. The fact that both National and Labour compete to promise more police is not in itself something to be pleased about.
    
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    September 28, 2023 10:08am
    - Beach Haven expat
      
      This is where Ginny Anderson has got away with it in the past few months with her (dodgy) claim of 1800 extra cops.
      The number of police us actually meaningless.
      The real stat that counts is crimes committed. Get that down and the number of cops is irrelevant.
      But if you need more cops, that’s only because there’s more crimes so it’s an admission of failure.
      
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      September 28, 2023 11:22am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        They don’t count crimes committed, only the ones they make it to, the rest just don’t count
        
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        September 28, 2023 1:20pm
      - I remember when
        
        G the Giant:
        Not even only the ones they make it to,
        as many reported crimes are only followed up by the victim – to confirm the police aren’t going to do anything.
        
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        September 28, 2023 3:05pm
      - Stellaboxer
        
        I have posted this before but shall do it again. There are only two things that deter crime and they are the likelihood of being caught and the fear of the consequences of being caught. Remove either and policing and the courts become meaningless . Labour removed both and presto.
        
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        September 29, 2023 10:37am
    - wsk12345
      
      I suspect more police will be a good thing in the short to medium term until we get behavioural change.
      
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      September 28, 2023 1:15pm
      - Keith White
        
        I think our society would do better to have more Paul Kerseys.
        
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        September 28, 2023 4:03pm
  - cas
    
    Just driving back from town a half an hour ago. 6 police, 4 police cars holding up the traffic doing breathtesting on both sides of the road. At 1pm FGS. Solve some real crime!!!
    
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    September 28, 2023 1:41pm
    - Ghost
      
      When I was in primary school a friend and his brother were coming home from a holiday in the bus. They past their mothers car and for the hour and half left og the bus trip the passengers looked after them. Their mother had been killed by a drunk driver. Drunk driving is a real crime
      
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      September 28, 2023 1:44pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        One checkpoint requires 6 police and 4 police cars? While supermarkets are told not to bother holding shoplifters as the police are too busy?
        
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        September 28, 2023 2:45pm
      - Ghost
        
        Usually manned by the roading police units. When was the last time a shop lifter killed or injured someone?
        
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        September 28, 2023 2:52pm
      - Ghost
        
        Usually manned by the roading police units
        
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        September 28, 2023 2:53pm
      - Rusty
        
        @Ghost, that is a sad story.
        
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        September 28, 2023 2:49pm
  - Prince
    
    In 2019 there were 5700 gang members.
    SO 3,300 recruits in 4 years.
    Puts the 1800 ‘Police’ in perspective.
    Pity Luxon doesn’t have these numbers at the ready – he needs to. Key would have.
    
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    September 28, 2023 2:45pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  The intelligence, clarity and perception of the representatives in our parliament continues to amaze me. No wonder I have so much difficulty deciding which (if any) of them I should give my vote to……./s
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:31am
  - All_on_Red
    
    You should consider voting for Act
    That David Seymour seems a nice guy
    
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    September 28, 2023 8:50am
    - Mark Hanley
      
      David Seymour is a nice guy who lists his achievements (from 9 Years of tax payer funded salaries) as the referendum backed end of life bill and dancing with the Stars.
      
      I’m not telling you who to vote for but voting for Seymour in the belief he will reverse 9 years of underachievement is very optimistic. Especially when you look at the rest of the ACT MPs (if you can find them as they remain hidden from the public eye).
      
      Luxon in the other hand has:
      – transformed the National party into a well oiled machine,
      – committed to a raft of good policies which will be difficult for Labour to overturn,
      – expertly avoided controversial issues like covid and climate in the knowledge these policy areas are despicable unintelligent NZ media fodder (prior to the election),
      – chosen, promoted, and supported his front bench
      – a track record of successful long term change in large complex organisations
      – defied the predictions from many KB experts to now be at historically record popularity levels for an opposition “PM to be”.
      
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      September 28, 2023 9:45am
      - pdm
        
        Mark – Luxon worries me too much on Co-Governance and Climate Change to get anything othere than an electorate candidate vote to get rid of the odious Anna Lorck in Tukituki.
        
        My understanding from feedback from last night he wants to team up with Labour on Climate Climate Change in particular.
        
        Why would any sane person want to do that?
        
        He also seems to favour giving unelected Maori on Councils Voting rights.
        
        Again – Why?
        
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        September 28, 2023 10:09am
      - mawm
        
        pdm – because he’s a left of centre UN shill. He has not instilled any confidence in me that he will really make any meaningful change to the direction this country is heading.
        
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        September 28, 2023 10:17am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        pdm – National opposes Maori wards at local government level, unless a referendum has endorsed them. National will join Act in repealing the legislation that allowed Councils to ignore the resulkts of referenda and appoint Maori representatives anyway. National opposes co-governance of public services, and will repeal all Three Waters and RMA legislation. Replacement legislation will make no provision for any co-governance. Luxon has repeatedly stated, including last night, that we all enjoy the same standard of citizenship.
        
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        September 28, 2023 10:38am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        PDM. It is painfully obvious that many ACT supporters either do not do their homework on National’s policies or choose to lie about them in the misguided belief that abusing Luxon and National will help ACT.
        
        IT WON’T!
        
        I EVEN HAD TO SEND AN EX ACT MP A LINK DEBUNKING HIS LIE ABOut LUXON NOT WANTING TO RESTORE 3 STRIKES!
        
        ACT needs National to form a government and Seymour will need National’s managerial heavyweights if he is to have any chance of successful long term change.
        
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        September 28, 2023 10:58am
      - Countrygirl
        
        I know Luxon appears “woke” on climate change etc. I may be proved wrong but I think it is at least what he has to advocate before the election. Afterwards it can be toned back, but now he risks losing too many voters who believe all that nonsense. Leave it for Act to attract the people who see through the whole charade of climate change. I think there will be wiggle room but I read somewhere that we have signed up to conditions that mean we have to do a certain amount or lose markets.
        
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        September 28, 2023 1:08pm
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        Mark, I think accusing others of lying is a bit much, or your glowing list of Luxon achievements (which includes ‘avoiding controversial issues…. 😉 “. I must concede his is doing better lately though, and it is good to see that Nats are releasing a lot of policy and looking credible.
        Surely this was the plan.
        And I can say this (measured compliments) because I am not welded onto any party, nor think my team is always right and perfect.
        
        I would also state that Seymour has principles, and got a contentious issue like end of life through to becoming a reality as a party of 1 in effect. So the idea he can’t work with others or build consensus is also, ahem, rather bending the truth.
        
        And about the other ACT MPs being invisible, they are on the debates the same as others – the likes of Nicole McKee or Keren Chhour have either been out in person at events LONG before any election cycle or in the news on matters of principle again – such as Karen asking about the Waiaperera trust in Parliament, leading to Special K’s amazing “vanilla lens’ comment.
        Nicole I have not spoken with yet, but she has turned up at multiple events I have attended, like guns shows or military commemorations.
        And Van Valden, just turn on the TV sometimes. she is around too.
        I mean, the idea that the other MPs are invisible has not been true for a while, any more than any party beyond a top few.
        I expect the lists are all a shallower talent pool if you go too far down the list.
        
        This whole ACToids and Nat-lover slinging match here is really dumb, especially when the angle is who is best at the art of politics and cooperation.
        
        Kind of “I am way more humble that you, so I win again!”.
        I am sure this sort of spat pleases the lefties, and Winston Peters.
        
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        September 28, 2023 1:34pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        Your constant ~~fluffing~~ fawning over Luxon is vomit-inducing.
        
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        September 28, 2023 2:47pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Fuzzy. I appreciate you contribution but you really need to read my posts before critiquing them…
        
        Saying “can’t work with others or build consensus is also, ahem, rather bending the truth” is in of itself bending the truth because I have never said that.
        
        Also *Nat-lover slinging match here is really dumb, especially when the angle is who is best at the art of politics and cooperation*
        
        is wrong in 2 parts.
        
        1. I have only praised Seymour but I have also dispassionately posted his experience and track record.
        
        2. If you read my posts you will find out I gave act my party vote in 2020. You will also see me encouraging KBers to vote National or ACT without favour for either.
        
        3. I have never labeled KBers actoids or Nat lovers and never will as I find name calling infantile.
        
        The reason behind my posts s I am concerned the pro ACT messages and the anti Luxon messages on KB are unbalanced, are not accurate and are simply not supported by both men’s history and life achievements.
        
        So I encourage you to read my balanced posts properly and by all means, if you disagree with something I have actually written, let me and other KBers know.
        
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        September 28, 2023 2:48pm
      - I remember when
        
        Perhaps the 16 downtickers for Mark Hanley can explain why Luxon needs to consider calling Winston after the election.
        
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        September 28, 2023 3:11pm
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        Ok Mark, point taken. I did read what you said.
        It just reads as not quite as “middle of the road”/non-partisan as you might think, when speaking of National ‘managerial heavyweights’ compared to ‘invisible MPs’.
        
        Same with comparing ‘track records’, when success in politics is not the same as success in business.
        In the former it would be Seymour who has the track record. Twerking or not; I’ll put that to one side.
        I do however prefer someone to have both skills, and so if Luxon turns out to be that person, then good & good for NZ.
        
        I didn’t mean to imply that you yourself used the term Actoids or any tribal-Nat slur. Obviously that can’t be one and the same person!, But the theme here (not just today; nor your own) is more like ACT and National are enemies, rather than Labour/Green/Te Maori Pati being enemies.
        
        L/G/TPM are the true enemies, even to those useful & entitled idiots who think they will make life better.
        
        ACT and National, have a cuddle, have a cup of tea, since you will need to work together to fix the mess of the last 6 years. And ACT may well be disproportionately important in that IMO.
        
        There is far more that unites NAct than seperates it. In a few key areas like opposition to racial seperatism or the need for tax relief, the differences are only skin deep.
        But when it goes to L/G/TPM, the ugliness is to the bone. 😉
        
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        September 28, 2023 3:19pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Duck.
        
        Thanks first your clarification, I appreciate passion and often have to read my and others posts a few times before I click submit to ensure my passion doesn’t diminish my message.
        
        I am not aiming to be middle of the road. I am merely aiming to provide balance and facts.
        
        You just have to look at the difference between the Collins lead National caucus and the Luxon lead Caucus to see how vital management expertise and success is.
        
        Luxons experience, intellect and management skill will become more important in a month.
        
        And I agree re national and act politicians and supporters working together which is why I keep reminding passionate act supporters they need national,
        
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        September 28, 2023 3:35pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      AoR – my current favourite purveyor of pork pies…..
      
      😂😂😂
      
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      September 28, 2023 10:02am
- cmm
  
  I’m sure the 9000 is very light. This is maybe patched gang members. They have numerous “clean skin” associates who are effectively members.
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:40am
- Damocles11
  
  The debate questions are just designed to create ‘gotcha’ moments. “Winston Peters, good or bad?” The reality is that human beings are a little more complex than the narrative Gower was pushing there. Likewise, realpolitik means you sometimes have to suck it up and work with people.
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:45am
  - goNZ1
    
    If either lot start taxing churches,I hope they realise that it will result in the poor/addicted/sick etc in their care being offloaded into the states welfare and health system which is already in crisis.
    Otherwise known as the Law of Unintended Consequences…
    
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    September 28, 2023 9:17am
    - Damocles11
      
      So a knee-jerk reaction from the Church then: “you are taxing us, so now we will cease our good works”. That would seem to be a petty and spiteful response; what would Jesus say?
      I’m pretty sure a tax is when the state takes some money, not the whole lot.
      Entities like Sanitarium make huge profits, why shouldn’t they pay some tax?
      
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      September 28, 2023 9:28am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        It’s about affordability. A dollar paid in tax is a dollar unavailable for good works.
        
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        September 28, 2023 9:37am
      - Countrygirl
        
        Where does all the iwi money go?
        
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        September 28, 2023 1:10pm
      - bennerg
        
        I believe it is a reasonable approach to allow charitable organisations not to be taxed on their direct charitable activities from donations and bequests etc.
        
        But where they own entities/companies that compete in the business world (like Sanitarium) that company should pay tax (like their competitors) on the profit, before being distributed back to their shareholders. I believe it can be clearly defined what business operations fit in that category. eg. are there other commercial operators in that same space?
        
        Otherwise it creates an anomaly in the business world that is unfair, and it encourages the option to create sham charitable trusts to run businesses and funnel profits to individual causes. Not what charities are all about IMHO.
        
        On that score, Charities Services needs to be better resourced, and they need to implement tighter controls on what actually is a charity and what they actually do – not just what they say they intend to do in their mission statement. No political/sectarian organisations, however “worthy” – they are in effect nothing but political lobbyists avoiding tax.
        
        And require full audits at all levels. I was speaking to a friend in England who related the situation there for his relatively small charity, where every year a representative from their Charities Commission rocks up at the office and demands to see every invoice, and requires an explanation for anything they do not understand. He was amazed that the same does not happen here.
        
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        September 28, 2023 1:40pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Unintended, but totally predicable as you have elucidated well.
      
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      September 28, 2023 10:05am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      I would hardly call sanitarium a church.
      
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      September 28, 2023 1:35pm
      - I remember when
        
        The taxing of charitable organisations raises a number of interesting points.
        Even those that often aren’t considered charitable are often a social connection for the disaffected, lonely and needy.
        Many are operating with a reducing and ever more elderly group.
        Many charitable organisations now operate because of an ongoing number of government work contracts.
        Government decide how much they want to contribute by don’t have to find, employ or pay the workforce.
        
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        September 28, 2023 3:28pm
- My
  
  Switched off and listened to Thin Lizzy Live and Dangerous after the question about sending police to break up a gang funeral.
  Paddy needs to remember his place and Luxon needs to take some lesson from Paddys interview with Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux. https://youtu.be/mUR9U6Srj7g?si=AfbAK_Q-uNKidaLw
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:56am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Great album!!
    
    As an aside, I got to meet Phil Lynott and Snowy White in the Europa Hotel (the most bombed hotel in the world!) in Belfast in 1980 after they played at the King’s Hall.
    I couldn’t get tickets to the sold out concert, but my g/f at the time was a receptionist at the hotel and got me in through the ‘back door’ and up to the residents lounge where the after concert party was held.
    Got a photo of myself with Phil, then made a dick of myself talking to Snowy White by calling him Chalky by mistake…….😂😂😂
    
    We had all partied a bit by this stage and to be fair, he did find it funny. But boy, was I embarrassed. 😂
    
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    September 28, 2023 10:13am
    - My
      
      Cool story. Thin Lizzy loud and fast.
      Nobody is going to tell a story about shooting in through the back door of the hotel and meeting Paddy, Chris or Chris 45 years later are they?
      
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      September 28, 2023 10:52am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        They were there too, I’ll tell you about that tomorrow. 😁
        
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        September 29, 2023 1:50am
  - Media hater
    
    Good lord. I didn’t realise quite how mind-boggling stupid Paddy Gower is until I watched that interview.
    
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    September 28, 2023 10:19am
- Che Guava
  
  If they can ban everyone in the country from congregating during Covid on a pretext of “community safety” then they can also ban gangs. Would this abridge their civil liberties? Probably, but that’s their problem.
  
  Gangs represent far more of a threat to public order and safety than Covid ever did. But like all of the problems that manifest in consequence of the present socio-political paradigm, they could be fixed if there was the will to do so.
  
  Most if not all of these gangs are overtly and conspicuously Maori, which is why they are treated so leniently. If they were overtly and conspicuously White, we all know that such gangs would not be tolerated, or at least they would be dealt with very differently.
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:57am
  - imalwaysright
    
    88 storm troopers deployed to a citizens protest in Wellington.
    
    The coliseum has been constructed , send in the Christians
    
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    September 28, 2023 9:29am
  - I remember when
    
    Every time they are mentioned it should be stressed that they are ‘criminal’ operations.
    If we could just have a listing of their crimes, before the justifications start rolling in, it would be a start.
    As long as there are Maori dominated gangs, there is going to be racism.
    People that carry guns, make an art form of looking fierce and break the law, just seem to have that effect.
    
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    September 28, 2023 3:38pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  Some random observation on last nights Leaders Debate.
  1.Chippie looked like a yappy dog chasing a car.
  2. The left wing Panel said Luxon looked Prime Ministerial while Chippie looked like the Leader of the Opposition.
  3. Luxon kept repeating that Winston was only an option to keep Labour/Greens/Maori Party out of Government.
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:57am
  - My
    
    3. Yes. So Winston, as treacherous, disloyal, duplicitous and disillusioned as he is, is no where near as dangerous as TPM and Greens.
    If I look at NZF Policy, I can broadly agree with some of them. Some are good, some might be ok in a coalition, some are just nuts. Get rid of Winston and I might look a bit closer.
    If I look at TPM and Green and Lab. Not so much, pretty much all just nuts.
    
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    September 28, 2023 9:17am
    - John Loveridge
      
      The lesser of two grotesque evils. Hobson’s choice, isn’t it?
      
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      September 28, 2023 9:24am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      That’s the problem right there, his policies mean nothing after the election, and he still May shaft the voter
      
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      September 28, 2023 9:42am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Last,
    
    Hipkins was getting on like the 35 year old teenager still living at home and arguing with his parents that they didn’t make his bed properly and they’ve run out of coco pops.
    
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    September 28, 2023 9:31am
    - Paulus
      
      Thought I heard/read that Chippy is currently living at home with his parents !
      
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      September 28, 2023 11:22am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Paulus,
        
        Many a truth spoken in jest !
        
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        September 28, 2023 1:09pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Hardly sounds like a run to Hipkins
    
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    September 28, 2023 2:02pm
- cmm
  
  If there are 10k cops and 9k gang members (though there are likely more of the latter) then we are screwed.
  
  On average, each gang member commits multiple crimes per day. Consider that just one gang member running a tinnie house probably commits hundreds of crimes per day.
  
  There is just no way plod can keep up.
  
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  September 28, 2023 11:50am
  - My
    
    Don’t worry about the numbers so much. Just recruit big guys and give them bigger PR 24’s and guns.
    
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    September 28, 2023 1:46pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Good point. So many Police are not large guys, any more. Whereas I’m not sure many gang members are minority hires, if you see what I mean.
      
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      September 28, 2023 8:52pm
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Running a tinnie house is not really the crime of century, if you are listing out examples or severity of gang harm.
    Meth seems to be where it is at these days, and the health, social and mental harms from that are much less in doubt than weed.
    I no longer smoke, but ‘c’mon, y’know, man.
    
    Gang harm is not just in actual crime, but the perpetuation of the cycle within communities and families that this is what the young people know and aspire to. It replicates and grows.
    So beating, rapes, intimidation, burglary/thefts, murder, drug dealing, etc, etc.
    Gangs are NOT whanau. They are cancer.
    
    A shame the government has been treating them like an extension of Maori culture or some sort of well-meaning & positive community organisation. They should only be treated as the enemy of society; to be broken up and subdued only.
    
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    September 28, 2023 1:46pm
    - Taieri
      
      Gang harm is not just in actual crime, but the perpetuation of the cycle within communities and families that this is what the young people know and aspire to.
      ————-
      
      Gangs are also a substitute for non-existent or dysfunctional families and absent fathers. Gangs provide a purpose and a sense of belonging for the young people lacking these things in life. Gangs maintain a structure, a discipline and an authority. All the things that used to be provided by the family and the society at large.
      Gangs are a Community. At least for the people that our progressive “society” has no time for and nothing to offer to.
      
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      September 28, 2023 4:02pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Passing almost unremarked by the MSM is the fact that Labour’s support has all but halved since the last election.

Where is the in-depth analysis of where it’s all gone wrong?

Where’s the questioning of a quarter of all voters as to why they are switching away from Labour?
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September 28, 2023 8:01am
- Paulus
  
  But one poll recently dissected showed that over 52% of the current Labour voters were women over 50 years of age.
  Many wish Ardern back too I suspect.
  
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  September 28, 2023 11:24am
Keith White

“If you take the guns off the street you still will have a crime problem, whereas if you take the criminals off the street you will not have a gun problem.”
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September 28, 2023 8:05am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  That would be common sense. Maybe suggest it to Ginny.
  She would then ask what Uni Degree you had to come up with that, because it is clearly smarter than anything she could come up with.
  
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  September 28, 2023 9:20am
Tomtoddy

I have never been so heartily sick and tired of an election campaign and I’ve endured a dozen or more.

1. The MSM have done everything possible to undermine Luxon. Its often gloves off, pure venom or its silly, childish niggle but any idea of balance is long gone.
2. Turning the election into theatrical, inane TV fodder, debates with biased idiots judging Hipkins a winner whatever happened is an insult to any intelligence that bothered watching.
3. The toxicity of a National, ACT, NZFirst coalition gets wide coverage. Barely any comment on what an unmitigated disaster would befall us under Labour, Greens, Te Pati Māori.
4. The best way to know how a party will perform is to look at its record in recent times – why the blatant and glaring unwillingness to point out the incompetence of the last six years of Labour?
5. Why all the dissecting of one poor poll result and conclusions of failure tossed around but when the trend is restored not a mention?
6. Whoever gave Luxon the advice to get out and do as many public meetings as possible did well – its allowed him to claw his way up the ladder in spite of the campaign against him.
Disclosure: Not a National voter.
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September 28, 2023 8:07am
- Souvlaki
  
  Q: Is there anywhere in the world with a more inane media than us?😳😳
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:12am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    The US, they are playing the role hate the center candidates with all passion, and too hell with the damage
    
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    September 28, 2023 8:18am
  - mandk
    
    Not inane, just dyed in the wool socialist.
    
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    September 28, 2023 8:25am
  - Caine9
    
    Probably not, but plenty as corrupt.
    
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    September 28, 2023 8:27am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Canada?
    
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    September 28, 2023 8:32am
    - Paulus
      
      Talking to an Aussie tourist this morning add Australia to that list.
      
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      September 28, 2023 11:26am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Um, try America. Watch “The View” for one. Or Colbert. Or Joy Reid on MSNBC. Warning: you will likely need a support person to stop you from killing yourself.
    
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    September 28, 2023 8:38am
    - thirteenstars
      
      More inane than NZ’s media? Have you surveyed the Canadian landscape? The British? If NZ is not the most woke country on the planet (thanks in large part to a monolithic media) I’m yet to see one that is. Canada might just be our equal but they have the advantage of a 4,000km border with the US.
      
      One thing the US certainly has more than us is freedom of speech. If that produces a few nutters, I say all power to the nutters.
      
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      September 28, 2023 9:17am
    - mawm
      
      I once caught about 30s of The View and had to scramble around to find the remote when Whoopi opened her mouth. Once was enough!
      
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      September 28, 2023 11:37am
  - Keith White
    
    Germany. Got locked down there by Befehl of the Kiwi Sole Sorceress of Truth and oh, boy.
    
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    September 28, 2023 8:40am
  - John Loveridge
    
    North Korea, perhaps?
    
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    September 28, 2023 9:25am
  - Mark Hanley
    
    Souvlaki…
    
    NO!
    
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    September 28, 2023 9:48am
  - Ghost
    
    Aotearoa?
    
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    September 28, 2023 11:30am
- Paulus
  
  Am thoroughly bored with the Election media.
  Let us get on with getting rid if the worse Government of this Ardern mob along with her puppets. The media have waited so they can now have Peters as the Great Leader and they will push that against National right up to the election.
  Why are the so called political media so biased ?
  I will help them then – Peters for Foreign Affairs where he can do little work and travel often – assuming that Shane Jones gets another $3 billion to fund without accounting his Maori friends.
  Peters won on the night along with Gower who would not stop talking, and taking over from Chippy (was he and Gower on something) in interrupting Luxon.
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:21am
- rouppe
  
  Yes…
  
  I turned into the debate about 20 minutes in, turned it off after 15 minutes more.
  
  I will say Luxon needs more mongrel. I saw the bit about coalition with NZ First, where Hipkins read out a supposed quote from a candidate and called it racist, then turning that on Luxon to demand whether he’ll work with a racist.
  
  Where the fuck was “you are happy to go into coalition with a party leader who says cis white men are the cause of all violence”, and “you are happy to go into coalition with the Maori Party who state Maori are genetically superior, just like the Nazis”. How do you defend THAT?
  
  Luxon tries to defend the accusation, which means the other can control the narrative. He needs to toughen up
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:23am
  - nathie
    
    When Chippie next gives Luxon a hard time about working with Winston or that Winston is “racist” etc …
    
    Luxon could perhaps reply along the lines of “don’t be disrespectful of the same man who put you (Labour) into power in 2017”!
    
    Then if Chippie and Labour repeat the “racist” line, just reply “is this what a Labour/Greens/Maori Party coalition govt will look like – calling anyone they disagree with as being “racist” to shut them down? If so this is NOT the divisive future that Kiwi’s want”!
    
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    September 28, 2023 9:41am
    - rouppe
      
      “don’t be disrespectful…” is way too passive.
      
      That’s “give me back my flag” territory.
      
      “NZ First is against Co governance in public services and so are we. You will go into a coalition with a party whose leader says cis white men are the cause of all violence, and you will go into coalition with the Maori Party who state Maori are genetically superior, just like the Nazis did. That’s the reality of a Labour, Green, Maori Party coalition “
      
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      September 28, 2023 10:32am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    He tried to suggest that but was shouted over by Hipkins snd Gower
    
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    September 28, 2023 9:44am
    - rouppe
      
      I didn’t hear him try and say that, so even if he did, that’s a fail.
      
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      September 28, 2023 10:28am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        He gave up because of two screaming benches
        
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        September 28, 2023 2:05pm
  - leoj
    
    Didn’t watch as I gave up TV three years ago. Happiest three years of my interest in politics.
    
    When will Nat supporter realise that Luxon is too nice to be a leader. Except that he is only too willing to throw Maureen Pugh under the bus but happy to give Hipkins a hug.
    
    Plain weird.
    
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    September 28, 2023 1:14pm
    - nathie
      
      Is that the same Maureen Pugh that voted for Todd “climate change” Muller in the 2020 leadership coup?!
      
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      September 28, 2023 5:03pm
    - Ghost
      
      When you stand for a political party you represent that parties policies. You can’t go to an election with the party representing its policies and one member contradicting that policy
      
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      September 28, 2023 5:18pm
      - wsk12345
        
        Of course you can. They are called representatives and are not all meant to be the same.
        You can have an opinion on net zero or charity status or covid policy or abortion but are signing up to vote in a certain way on certain policy.
        
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        September 29, 2023 8:17am
- Gravelroad
  
  These debates have become just a vehicle for media “celebrities “ to have fun trying to outdo each other on how loud and smart they are.
  They add nothing of value or substance to the politicians involved nor the election process as a whole.
  The voters, as usual, come last on the scale of respect and significance
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:31am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Loud yes. Smart, no. They are as thick as two short planks.
    
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    September 28, 2023 8:39am
  - Yvette
    
    At least back in history interviewers like Brian Edwards and Simon whateverwashisname, who ran up against Maldoon, at least achieved thier fame or infamy by asking pertinent questions.
    The one to ask ,now of each leader in turn would be : “Define co-governance”
    
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    September 28, 2023 8:51am
    - Steve Todd
      
      Simon Walker.
      
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      September 28, 2023 9:57am
  - Nickc2
    
    They add nothing of value or substance
    I love that line Gravelroad when used to describe the efforts of Jess, Tova, and Katie to swing/influence the thoughts of a nation in a direction of voting to retain the current trio of fools (Labour, Greens, and Maori) in Govt.
    
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    September 28, 2023 8:53am
    - John Loveridge
      
      From her infamous comment, wailing that no matter what “they” say or do people still vote National, it’s apparent that Katie Bradford sees herself on a Mission from God to save conservative souls.
      
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      September 28, 2023 9:27am
      - Nickc2
        
        Careful John, Katie’s mummy has a liking for people such as yourself.
        
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        September 28, 2023 9:38am
- Philview
  
  I will not vote for NZ First but clearly the first term of this Labour Government was much better than the 2nd term. It seems NZ First was able to provide some competence so a bit strange for Hipkins to now claim NZ First in Government would be a disaster.
  
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  September 28, 2023 1:35pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Thd first term was better because of the huge surplus and great set of books handed to the by the bitter old bastard, he smoky refused to vote for stuff he didn’t like, snd he will do it again
    
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    September 28, 2023 2:33pm
Cassandra

Chloe Swarbrick to Alwyn Poole: “I won’t support your special school application because you’ve criticised the Green Party”. She is Alwyn’s MP. Of course it’s headlines in the Herald and TV1 is all over it.
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September 28, 2023 8:08am
Matt Long

Abortion rights group set out who to vote for, for all the eugenicistsvout there.
https://www.thedailyexaminer.co.nz/mcblog-radical-abortion-group-highlights-who-not-to-vote-for/
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September 28, 2023 8:08am
- Matt Long
  
  Question, did Luxon really say he would resign if abortion rights were changed in the debate last night, I can believe he agreed with Hipkins for no jab injury compensation, but I can’t believe he was so imbedded in extreme abortion law.
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:14am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    The probability of a National Government changing current abortion law is zero.
    
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    September 28, 2023 8:17am
    - Yvette
      
      Hopefully now Luxon may have shutdown further questions about National changing abortion law.
      But is there any chance that the other aspect of the US Supreme Court ruling, that abortion rights are not in the Constitution, and State law or other legislation attend abortion needs and rights, and apply the same theory to the Treaty of Waitangi, and weed out anything in our legislation that purports to be in theTtreaty – but isn’t
      
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      September 28, 2023 9:32am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    He has vowed not to change abortion law when rotten media tried to trip him up day one.
    
    They weee not talking covid jab, it was vaccines in general
    
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    September 28, 2023 8:20am
    - mawm
      
      But it does include the covid vaccine which is where all the harm has been done.
      
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      September 28, 2023 11:43am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Not what the question said, but you tried to suggest it was covid jab only
        
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        September 28, 2023 2:34pm
      - mawm
        
        Not at all. When last did you read about someone who had the MMR that developed myocarditis or had a stroke?
        
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        September 28, 2023 4:19pm
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    Yes, he did . He wants to reassure middle NZ he is a safe choice.
    
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    September 28, 2023 8:22am
    - krazykiwi
      
      I guess unborn kids don’t count as middle New Zealand
      
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      September 28, 2023 8:32am
      - kowtow
        
        or safe .
        
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        September 28, 2023 8:38am
      - Damocles11
        
        National is ‘broad church’ mainstream political party. You should not be surprised about the positions Luxon and the party are taking.
        
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        September 28, 2023 8:41am
      - Michael Johnston
        
        They don’t vote, so no, they don’t count to politicians.
        
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        September 28, 2023 8:47am
      - Che Guava
        
        It’s incredible that we went through a couple of years of “one death is one death too many” propaganda and so many felt this approach was justified, while at the same time there were 13,000 abortions in New Zealand in 2020. This is more or less the average.
        
        https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/abortion_services_aotearoa_new_zealand_annual_report_2021_8_oct.pdf
        
        It is actually quite staggering to consider how far gone we are as a society as a whole, wherein women are told that they are “liberated” by being as promiscuous and/or careless as they like, because they have a “right” to murder their unborn child.
        
        So Luxon supports abortion (Christian, btw)? Good. Another reason confirming my contention that National are part of the problem, not the solution. He and Wayne Mapp’s “Middle New Zealand” can piss right off.
        
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        September 28, 2023 9:15am
      - Dudley Quaffquaff
        
        They don’t have the right to make use of somebody else’s body without that person’s consent. No-one has that right, no matter how deserving, worthy or genuinely unfortunate they are, no matter how desperate their need, no matter how trivial the impact on the other person and no matter what their relationship is to the person whose body they want to use. Not even if a person is dead does anybody have the right to use their body without their consent.
        
        You want to give fetuses more rights than any other person, and you want to ensure that women have fewer rights than corpses.
        
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        September 28, 2023 9:39am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Yes, there is something odd and evil about a society that spends billions looking for life on other planets while murdering their babies because the are inconvenient.
        
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        September 28, 2023 9:41am
      - Che Guava
        
        “You want to give fetuses more rights than any other person, and you want to ensure that women have fewer rights than corpses.”
        
        First, they are unborn babies not “fetuses” (although to dehumanise allows all manner of barbarity to seem justified).
        
        Second, a women’s rights come in when she chooses to have sex. The asserted “right” to an abortion when she has already made her choice is an excellent example of women demanding rights while rejecting all personal responsibility.
        
        The core problem in the causal chain is choosing promiscuity (and/or careless sexual behaviour) outside of marriage – get rid of that and the abortion question evaporates as a result.
        
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        September 28, 2023 10:17am
      - Guy Preston
        
        They don’t have the right to make use of somebody else’s body without that person’s consent.
        
        When men and women (consensually) engage in reproductive activity, they are consenting to the consequence. The unborn child didn’t ask to be conceived y’know.
        
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        September 28, 2023 10:20am
      - Dudley Quaffquaff
        
        Che Guava, there are plenty of scenarios whereby a woman might be pregnant and not want to be. And not one of those scenarios is any of your damn business.
        
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        September 28, 2023 11:14am
      - Che Guava
        
        “Che Guava, there are plenty of scenarios whereby a woman might be pregnant and not want to be. And not one of those scenarios is any of your damn business.”
        
        The collective morality of a society is everyone’s business. Moreover, the obvious question is “why are women having sex when the don’t want to get pregnant (or run the risk)?” Are they stupid, somehow not knowing where babies come from?
        
        Nearly all abortions are due to perceived convenience and lifestyle decisions, and almost none are due to rape.
        
        https://lozierinstitute.org/fact-sheet-reasons-for-abortion/
        
        The problem is, in order to allow one type of immorality to be acceptable, we have to allow an even worse thing to address the foreseeable consequence, and then claim that it is somehow a “right.” And a baby is not “a woman’s body” simply because the baby has different DNA. It is dependent, but it is also distinct.
        
        Analogously, if you don’t want to get fat, then you don’t behave in a way that could lead to you getting fat. If you feed your face on every cream cake in the vicinity, despite knowing the risk, then its not my problem if you become obese.
        
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        September 28, 2023 11:40am
      - Dudley Quaffquaff
        
        And a baby is not “a woman’s body” simply because the baby has different DNA. It is dependent, but it is also distinct.
        
        Yes, it’s distinct with different DNA. I’m distinct from you with different DNA. And I still don’t have the right to make use of your body without your consent.
        
        No, consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy, any more than getting into a car is consent to dying in a car accident.
        
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        September 28, 2023 12:43pm
      - wsk12345
        
        @Dudley. It’s not a binary solution. Do you think it’s ok to abort babies up to and during birth. Do you think where a failed abortion results in a live birth that the baby should be set aside, ignored, until it dies of dehydration?
        
        I personally, as a woman, support the right to abortion….in the first weeks of pregnancy. But you can’t tell me that more than 1/100 women doesn’t know within 6-10 weeks that they are pregnant? If it’s a condom failure, why not take the morning after pill if you think there is a chance you are pregnant. The woman carrying the baby has plenty of opportunities to get rid of it without waiting until it can feel pain and has a beating heart.
        
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        September 28, 2023 1:29pm
    - Simon
      
      Most of what Luxon does is try to close down possible MSM attack narratives. But this is why National are so useless. They will not close down RNZ, sell off TVNZ. They will not defund MSM when in govt. The govt.borg.nz ad revenue will continue to flow. NZ on air should be closed down. It was used to channel tens of millions of corrupt political payments to MSM.
      
      MSM are hostile against anyone to the right of Labo, are heavily financed by the state, have no credibility but National refuse to fight back.
      
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      September 28, 2023 8:48am
    - Michael J Baker
      
      Given that Labour and National’s views on abortion and COVID (which are demonstrably significant issues) seem to be welded into position, it’s a testament to the power of majority rules. This shows why individual civil rights are so important as the power of the state increases. I wonder if Wayne Mapp understands this, or is he just a “LNINO” (liberal Nat in name only)?
      
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      September 28, 2023 9:22am
      - Che Guava
        
        Public opinion is highly malleable. Where as once society was much more conservative and traditional, leftism has come to dominate simply because they have been the most aggressive in pushing their agenda (helped by the fact that the leftist agenda is ideal for undermining and reshaping society, in the interests of the profit motives of the world’s billionaires).
        
        If the media and institutions started pushing, for instance, Catholic fascism in unison 24/7 tomorrow, after the initial adjustment, society would be suitably altered in probably much less than a decade. And it would be much better, tbh.
        
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        September 28, 2023 11:47am
    - Damocles11
      
      Luxon does not ‘support abortion’. He says National will not look to change the law. That is not the same as ‘supports abortion’. He recognises that there is no social or political will to change the law. He is a pragmatic realist, while in this forum we have a number of rabid idealists who deliberately misinterpret Luxon’s statements and actions solely because they have an axe to grind.
      
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      September 28, 2023 9:35am
      - mawm
        
        [Mod – discuss respectfully]
        
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        September 28, 2023 11:50am
  - kowtow
    
    All this resign stuff from the pollies is ridiculous , as is the demand from the media “will you resign”.
    
    It’s been driven down by them all to the level of childish playground stuff.
    
    Ardern’s text to Hipkins being perhaps the epitome.
    
    “Tag you’re it”.
    
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    September 28, 2023 8:34am
  - virtualmark
    
    Abortion rights are supported by a vast majority of voters.
    
    Yes, there are a lot of people – perhaps including you – who are passionately anti-abortion. But they are very much the minority. So any functioning democracy will provide for (well regulated) abortion.
    
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    September 28, 2023 8:42am
    - Che Guava
      
      Where do you derive a “right” to kill a baby in the womb? I’d be fascinated to know.
      
      People have a right to choose whether or not to have sex. If they proceed and then have to deal with “unwanted” pregnancy, then that’s tough: they’ve already exercised their rights.
      
      It doesn’t matter if 99.9999% of people agree but are wrong on an issue, they are still wrong. By your logic on abortion, if the majority of your neighbours wanted to string you up from a lamp post, you’d have to just shrug your shoulders and accede to the majority view. That’s democracy, isn’t it?
      
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      September 28, 2023 9:24am
      - Damocles11
        
        You obviously don’t understand that National is a ‘broad church’ mainstream political party. You can thunder away all you like, in my opinion your whole attack line is wrongheaded because you fail to see or acknowledge that National is a mainstream major political party. There are political parties out there that share the intensity of *your* viewpoint, and they will not make the treshold in this election or any other precisely for that reason.
        
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        September 28, 2023 9:40am
      - virtualmark
        
        Che, I’m not a huge supporter of abortion rights. I come from a Christian background and find abortion an uncomfortable reality. Personally I would not support aborting a child.
        
        I also believe that faith is largely about how you, the believer, live your own life, and not about imposing your views on others. Christians are called to bear witness to their values, and I agree with that. But they are not called to be dictators from a minority position – which if nothing else would go against the Christian doctrine of free will.
        
        But yes, in a democracy the majority position prevails. That can be troublesome if the population is split say 51%:49% on an issue. But abortion (and your murder straw-man) aren’t that close. There’s a clear societal preference and we do need to respect that.
        
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        September 28, 2023 10:03am
      - kowtow
        
        Damolcles
        
        The Nats have long liked the description of “braod church” as you’ve described them . But that can no longer be the case .
        
        Luxon’s authoritarian approach to MP’s taking a reasonable approach to climate alarmism , Pugh for example , proves that .
        
        Now it’s all about winning the centre , soft , thicko, swing voter.
        
        Realistic and pragmatic in terms of winning an election that might be , but “broad church” most definitely not .
        
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        September 28, 2023 11:09am
      - NothingLeft
        
        You view life as some divinely gifted miracle. Most NZers aren’t religious, and so don’t.
        
        They have a more pragmatic view of what a human is and what rights are due them at various stages in life. Most people are generally of the opinion that a fetus starts to gain some ‘right-to-life’ between 3 and 6 months after conception, but that those rights don’t supersede those of the mother to preserve her own health.
        
        A border collie has a bigger brain, with far higher intelligence and awareness than a 30 week fetus, yet we don’t accord them any rights.
        
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        September 28, 2023 11:15am
      - Dudley Quaffquaff
        
        Where do I derive a right to kill a baby in the womb – Same place as you derive a right not to give up a kidney, or blood, or any other part of your body to somebody else who needs it, even if they will die without it, even though it’s not their fault that they need it.
        
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        September 28, 2023 12:37pm
      - Jack5
        
        NZ abortion law is and always will be a conscience-vote issue rather than a party-vote issue.
        
        A tad more than a fortnight before the election who benefits from distracting debate to the abortion issue and away from Labour’s disastrous performance in government?
        
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        September 28, 2023 2:47pm
    - Keith White
      
      “Abortion rights are supported by a vast majority of voters.”
      
      Would that be the same vast majority that only a couple of years ago were in favour of locking people up for being outside, denying them informed consent, denying them bodily autonomy, and denying them freedom to reject an untested experimental unsafe vaccine?
      
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      September 28, 2023 10:26am
      - virtualmark
        
        Oh Keith, show me on the doll where Jacinda hurt you.
        
        It was a global pandemic. Lockdowns were a sensible temporary measure that allowed the local NZ infections to naturally burn out. Sensible adults could see that. The result was that NZ then re-opened to largely normal life (albeit with closed borders).
        
        And no one forced you or anyone else to have a vaccine. It was never compulsory. AFAIK no medications are compulsory.
        
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        September 28, 2023 11:34am
      - leoj
        
        Virtualmark:
        
        Technically, you are correct, spouting the same line of BS as the PM, however, perhaps you should develop an understanding of the difference between compulsory and coercion.
        
        Most had little or no choice, as determined by this bastard, stamp-on-personal-choice government.
        
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        September 28, 2023 1:20pm
      - virtualmark
        
        leoj,
        
        Adults have to make adult decisions about trade-offs. Infants have tantrums.
        
        And society is allowed to insist on certain commitments from you, the individual, if you want to be part of that society. I have no problem with that provided those commitments are things that are for the greater good of the society.
        
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        September 28, 2023 1:40pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        First point of the Nuremberg code regarding medical procedures:
        
        The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision.
        
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        September 28, 2023 2:10pm
      - virtualmark
        
        NothingLeft,
        
        Feel free to take a case to the Courts alleging the Crown broke the Nuremberg Code. I’ll go get the popcorn.
        
        Or … stop being a baby having a tantrum. Lots of jobs have medical requirements. Try being a pilot. Or go ask a soldier how many jabs they’ve had for their jobs. Heck, even bus drivers have to get a medical certificate.
        
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        September 28, 2023 2:27pm
      - leoj
        
        Virtualmark:
        
        A fair point except that this coercion was from a government level (yip, yip, two classes of society), en mass, quite different from individual work contracts.
        
        Try again, to justify this government’s jack-boot tactics.
        
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        September 28, 2023 3:00pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        The Nuremberg code has no force in law. But it does clearly outline evil unethical practice and behaviour as exemplified by hysterical govts dipping their toes in the waters of authoritarian excess with extremely coercive vaccination programs.
        
        All cosily encouraged by deeply incestuous Big Pharma lobbying and their well documented capture of medical regulators along with their bare-minimum trials with typically obfuscative reporting and no-follow up testing for harms as well as the huge advertising budgets they tipped into starving media coffers and politicians pockets to get them serving as propagandists during the pandemic.
        
        But if you’re cool with that and the 1 in 35 people that have damaged hearts as a result (according to swiss study blood-testing hospital staff post vaccination), leading to huge subsequent increase in deaths amongst the vaccinated (nowhere clearer than NZ where 2000 extra people died during 2021 compared to 2020 before covid hit at end of 2021) , then there’s really not much to discuss, you’ve clearly decided to side with the monsters.
        
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        September 28, 2023 3:06pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Oh leoj, cry me a river. The “coercion” that you allege, such that it was, was in the context of employment contracts. You want to be a nurse during a pandemic, well get yourself vaccinated.
        
        If you want to be included in society, or in your workplace, then abide by the requirements of that workplace.
        
        If you think those requirements are unreasonable then you can try to get them changed, you can protest, or you can leave.
        
        Or … you can sit in the corner and have a little cry. But the rest of us will think you’re a child.
        
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        September 28, 2023 3:29pm
      - virtualmark
        
        NothingLeft,
        
        What a bunch of cooker nonsense.
        
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        September 28, 2023 3:32pm
  - cmm
    
    Nichola is a “Green Blue” or maybe even a “Blue Green”. She’s massively pro abortion etc.
    
    There is no way she’d be Luxon’s right-hand-(wo)man if he didn’t project exactly the values she wants.
    
    Of course they will say no jab compensation. To do otherwise is admitting they did something wrong. They might get forced to change later though.
    
    If anyone thinks a Labour to National switch is going to change the values the country is governed by then they are dreaming.
    
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    September 28, 2023 8:51am
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      You can get ACC compensation if you can show injury as a result of the vaccine. All injuries in NZ go through the ACC system. Medical misadventure makes up a fair percentage of ACC compensation.
      
      22 6
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      September 28, 2023 8:55am
      - Cassandra
        
        Indeed but I don’t think that’s the point. Our covid response is a 3rd rail/Pandora’s box. Whereas the ToW………………
        
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        September 28, 2023 9:05am
      - cmm
        
        I didn’t watch the debate, so I am only going on hearsay, but maybe they were talking about other stuff.
        
        Frankly I think there should be compensation for all damage caused, medical or not. For example:
        * Those that got fired or lost opportunities.
        * Those who were forced into compliance to get vaccinated against their will.
        * Those who suffered discrimination and mental pain and suffering.
        
        ACC will have a very hard time assessing damages. A lot of damage will not be clear cut, especially mental damage.
        
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        September 28, 2023 9:07am
      - kevn
        
        wmapp… Key word is ‘accident’.
        “I went into the doctors for a tetanus jab and they ‘accidentally’ gave me the mrna pizzer jab” or maybe “I fell over and ‘accidentally’ jabbed myself while I was about to jab a patient”.
        Successful ACC claims for the jab are merely in the double digits I gather, like .01% of the actual adverse jab reactions.
        
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        September 28, 2023 9:26am
      - virtualmark
        
        kevn, if you can prove the Pfizer vaccine injured you in some way then some combo of the public health system and ACC would cover your treatment and rehabilitation.
        
        There will definitely be a small number of cases of things like myocarditis that would fall under that umbrella. The expectation was there’d be about 25 such incidents in NZ.
        
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        September 28, 2023 10:07am
      - NothingLeft
        
        25 in NZ? LOL.
        
        There were 2000 more deaths in covid free NZ in 2021 than 2020, +5% increase in yearly deaths, and 10-15% higher than normal deaths during period in question. Almost zero respiratory versus or covid both years, the only difference was Covid vaccinations, and indeed the difference was clearly during the vaccine program. The temporal correlation is too strong to ignore:
        https://www.bitchute.com/video/dASUoQ92PTbD/
        
        Just because deaths from heart attacks and other cardiovascular disease are common and so serve to mask impacts of vaccine injury that doesn’t mean doesn’t mean that the vaccine wasn’t (and is still) greatly increasing the incidence.
        
        NZ is an almost perfect demonstration of the impact.
        
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        September 28, 2023 6:25pm
    - Damocles11
      
      ‘Massively pro-abortion’? Turn it up. She’s not out there demanding that all mothers abort their babies. She has got 4 children herself. Save the fire-and-brimstone stuff for church, or vote for Brian Tamaki. National is a mainstream political party, not a party looking to restore Old Testament style ‘values’.
      
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      September 28, 2023 9:14am
      - Che Guava
        
        “National is a mainstream political party…”
        
        That’s the problem. The “mainstream” is, by definition, lowest common denominator. Those “Old Testament style ‘values'” you shit on are what made our society great.
        
        Most people are so clueless that they don’t see the connection between repudiating those values and the near-collapse of the social order. But as I say, these people are lowest common denominator types who, predominantly, just want to make lots of money, root, watch the footy and drink beer as a means of filling the void in their lives. What’s the point of all that? Who knows, because nihilism doesn’t have any answers to anything.
        
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        September 28, 2023 9:35am
      - Damocles11
        
        Just support a party that is out there picketing abortion clinics Che, that is obviously where your mindset is at & the issue you feel most strongly about. Constantly railing at National for not being what you want it to be is akin to shouting at a cloud in the sky: nothing will be achieved.
        
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        September 28, 2023 9:43am
      - Che Guava
        
        Clearly you are happy with the status quo. But I’m not. Imagine asking for more and advocating for what you think is right, rather than just accepting whatever is dished up and being grateful. How presumptuous of me! With your mindset, Man wouldn’t have progressed himself at all.
        
        Like so many Nat loyalists, you suffer from a complete lack of imagination and an aversion to change. This timidity is why the so-called right are now completely neutered and dominated by progressive leftism (the latter dominance being a result of asking for more and advocating for what progressive leftists think is right).
        
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        September 28, 2023 10:11am
      - Damocles11
        
        Che, if you want an overhaul of our abortion laws and that is the single most important issue this election in your opinion, then vote for parties stating that they will change the law if elected. No party is ever going to offer a suite of policies perfectly tailored to the priorities of Che, and particularly not mainstream ‘broad church’ ones. My priorities this election are getting some fiscal responsibility back into government & curbing the worst of the co-governance excesses. And I don’t want to see a Labour/Green/TePatiMaori government in power and implementing punitive wealth taxes that drive capital flight. I am a grounded realist, not a rabid idealistic idealogue.
        
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        September 28, 2023 10:49am
    - miltonF
      
      The whole issue with compensation for jab injuries is…who is going to pay? Remember…a good chunk of the population, I’d say 30-50% were against the mandating of the “vaccine”.
      
      You can’t really take the money from the general taxation fund. That would, in effect, be punishing people who were against the mandates, while rewarding people who were pro mandate and the entire cause of the problem.
      
      This would be my moral suggestion: Identify the people who were pro mandate and retrieve the compensation money from them. This could easily be assessed via the “vaccine pass” system. Everyone who used a vaccine pass was supporting the mandate system. Apply a fine/tax to everyone who downloaded a “vaccine” pass and use this money to compensate jab injuries.
      
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      September 28, 2023 5:16pm
      - Ghost
        
        The money comes from ACC.
        
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        September 28, 2023 5:31pm
  - Philview
    
    There are aspects in the voting record on that abortion legislation that New Zealanders will be completely unaware of because the media failed to report it. A ban on sex selection as a grounds for abortion was voted down. It would have been informative to know why MPs support sex selection. Another aspect was that an amendment giving aborted babies born alive medical care was voted down. Once again it would have been interesting to know why MPs believe aborted babies born alive should not have medical care. A proper functioning media would have asked questions.
    
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    September 28, 2023 1:43pm
- mandk
  
  Equally useful as a guide to who is in favour of killing babies.
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:32am
- Scott
  
  Well they should change the abortion law. At present abortion is not under the crimes act so the unborn child is unique in that he or she has no legal rights and protections.
  Secondly abortion is now on demand up until birth. If one abortion doctor consults with another abortion doctor and they decide that abortion is appropriate it can be done at any time. That’s pretty close to infanticide.
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:46am
  - virtualmark
    
    I will wager a very good bottle of Scotch that any abortions after 12-15 weeks are for medical reasons. As in, either (a) the foetus has such significant defects or medical issues that it would not be viable or (b) the mother has such significant medical issues that she would not survive through to birth.
    
    We have friends who went through that exact situation, about 5 months into the pregnancy.
    
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    September 28, 2023 9:20am
    - mawm
      
      Virtual – your points a) and b) are true but your basic premise that abortions after 12 – 15 weeks are only for medical reasons is false. Any knowledge of Epsom Day unit and, for the even more advanced pregnancies, Auckland Hospital tells a different story.
      
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      September 28, 2023 12:09pm
      - rouppe
        
        12-15 weeks is not “up until birth”. It is within the window (20-something weeks) for abortion (one’s personal opinion on that number notwithstanding).
        
        Scotts assertions are more akin to abortion at 38 weeks. Are you aware of Epsom Day unit or Auckland Hospital performing abortions post 30 weeks for other than medical reasons?
        
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        September 28, 2023 12:44pm
      - virtualmark
        
        mawm, do you have the numbers for what percentage of abortions are done later than 15 weeks? And what percentage of those abortions are for convenience and what percentage are for medical reasons?
        
        I’ve seen numbers drawn from the US that said basically 100% of late-stage abortions are for medical reasons. One effect of our better scanning technology and genetic analysis is that doctors are able to diagnose genetic defects in-utero rather than after birth. Which then leads to the decision of whether to have a late-stage abortion.
        
        As I mentioned above, friends of our discovered their baby had crippling medical issues that would have meant the baby would have survived just a matter of days after birth, at most. Meanwhile the mother was at material risk to her own health. A terrible situation that no parents would want to be in. What do you think they should have done in that situation?
        
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        September 28, 2023 1:45pm
      - mawm
        
        Virtual – It was surely a harrowing experience. I make no judgment. The MoH should have the stats, they may even be on line.
        
        Rouppe – No.
        
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        September 28, 2023 4:28pm
    - Scott
      
      Virtualmark – here is the relevant legislation -Provision of abortion services to women more than 20 weeks pregnant
      (1)
      A qualified health practitioner may only provide abortion services to a woman who is more than 20 weeks pregnant if the health practitioner reasonably believes that the abortion is clinically appropriate in the circumstances.
      (2)
      In considering whether the abortion is clinically appropriate in the circumstances, the qualified health practitioner must—
      (a)
      consult at least 1 other qualified health practitioner; and
      (b)
      have regard to—
      (i)
      all relevant legal, professional, and ethical standards to which the qualified health practitioner is subject; and
      (ii)
      the woman’s—
      (A)
      physical health; and
      (B)
      mental health; and
      (C)
      overall well-being; and
      (iii)
      the gestational age of the fetus.
      (3)
      Subsection (2) does not apply in a medical emergency.
      
      It is very hard to know how many late term abortions are being done and in what circumstances?
      
      But we can surmise. The intent of the legislation was to make abortion a right and to liberalise abortion. Abortion is now out of the crimes act. So all an abortion doctor has to do to be compliant with the law is to consult with another abortion doctor and both of them agree that it is appropriate for the mother to have an abortion.
      Bear in mind that the media will never report about any abortion abuse. Bear in mind that with abortion being out of the crimes act the police have no interest in investigating any possible abortion abuses.
      
      So I say again. This legislation is open slather for abortion at any time up until birth. And that was Jacinda’s intention. That is not a bug of this legislation, it’s a feature.
      
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      September 28, 2023 12:32pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Scott, here’s my take.
        
        Most terminations now are done via drugs, not operations. Basically the modern day versions of the “morning after pill”. This is far simpler, easier and more accessible than an operation.
        
        Many of those terminations will be for convenience. I doubt either of us are comfortable with that. But the majority of society favour it being an option, so I accept that.
        
        I suspect that late-stage terminations, say after 15 weeks, are very unlikely to be for convenience. I’ll wager that if the mother has carried the baby for that long it’s because they want the child. But doctors are increasingly able to diagnose serious medical conditions in-utero, which then leaves the parents with the choice or option to terminate rather than proceed with an unviable pregnancy.
        
        I feel compassion for those parents, not judgement. Unfortunately too many Christians appear to have lost compassion.
        
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        September 28, 2023 1:51pm
      - Scott
        
        Virtual – we just don’t know? And the media and the government will do its best to make sure that we don’t know.
        But I am a Christian and I have a lower view of human nature then perhaps you do. So I would like to suggest that some people will abort their child for convenience. However I think we can both agree that more information might shed some light on this issue?
        
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        September 28, 2023 3:00pm
  - rouppe
    
    It’s also pretty close to zero possibility.
    
    I don’t think that would ever happen unless the mother’s life was at risk due to an unexpected complication, and even then the primary action at late-term would likely be caesarean section before abortion.
    
    I’m not in favour of abortion. At the least those that do it need to be clear they are not terminating a pregnancy, they are terminating a gestating life. But I also understand that I don’t get to impose that on others.
    
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    September 28, 2023 9:21am
    - Harlequin
      
      Nice to see a comment from someone who has obviously read and understands the law.
      
      3 0
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      September 28, 2023 10:39am
    - wsk12345
      
      You don’t think it would happen.
      based on what?
      The law says that I am entitled to an abortion up to or during birth provided I can find two doctors willing to sign it off because I say it will cause me mental harm.
      I think it does happen. Based on about as much as yourassertion that it does not.
      
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      September 28, 2023 1:48pm
      - rouppe
        
        The law does not say that. S11:
        
        Provision of abortion services to women more than 20 weeks pregnant
        (1) A qualified health practitioner may only provide abortion services to a woman who is more than 20 weeks pregnant if the health practitioner reasonably believes that the abortion is clinically appropriate in the circumstances.
        (2) In considering whether the abortion is clinically appropriate in the circumstances, the qualified health practitioner must—
        (a) consult at least 1 other qualified health practitioner; and
        (b) have regard to—
        (i) all relevant legal, professional, and ethical standards to which the qualified health practitioner is subject; and
        (ii) the woman’s—
        (A) physical health; and
        (B) mental health; and
        (C) overall well-being; and
        (iii) the gestational age of the fetus.
        
        So it’s not just “causes you mental harm”. There’s a bunch of considerations, including the gestational age of the fetus.
        
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        September 28, 2023 7:57pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Reply to Rouppe:
        
        Consider that under the previous legislation, the reason given for the vast majority of abortions was the mental health of the mother. Which was widely regarded as a crock of shit.
        
        I see no reason why new legislation would have changed this.
        
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        September 28, 2023 9:15pm
  - goNZ1
    
    Isnt it weird how animals and plants have far more rights than the unborn.
    Example – fell a native tree and you will find yourself prosecuted…
    
    10 5
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    September 28, 2023 9:26am
    - Rusty
      
      @goNZI
      
      Spot on. Killing an unborn plant is more emotional than killing an unborn child to some people.
      
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      September 28, 2023 3:06pm
  - kowtow
    
    Ardern was publicly very proud of that “achievement”.
    
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    September 28, 2023 12:48pm
- Ghost
  
  This is one of those pointless debates that will never go anywhere, both sides will never give.
  
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  September 28, 2023 10:39am
Maggy Wassilieff

Attn Ginny:

Another ram raid….

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-crime-caltex-ram-raided-gaming-lounge-robbed-by-armed-offenders/46U7V75G6BAI7FZKVZB65CIJSY/
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September 28, 2023 8:10am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  2 down here yesterday
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:20am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  What will be her excuse this time?
  
  21 1
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  September 28, 2023 8:43am
  - imalwaysright
    
    S.O
    
    Ginny: “Punters have big collect from pokies!”
    
    14 0
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    September 28, 2023 8:50am
  - goNZ1
    
    Something National did/didnt more than 6 years ago no doubt!
    
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    September 28, 2023 9:27am
Matt Long

It’s nice to see Afghan refugees imbibing the local culture.
Should get sentence reduction because he witnessed violence and trained to be a meth cook, sounds just like one of us.
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/crime/glen-eden-gang-stoush-comancheros-members-sentenced-for-machete-attack-on-man-they-d-just-hit-with-car/
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September 28, 2023 8:11am
- Yabster
  
  deport the pricks- Aus would. I would support a law that as a guest in NZ if a refugee commits a serious crime or is in a gang associate its auto deportation. – consequences…..
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:26am
  - rouppe
    
    100% agree
    
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    September 28, 2023 9:22am
  - goNZ1
    
    nothing that an Old Testament stoning couldnt fix
    
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    September 28, 2023 9:29am
    - Damocles11
      
      Careful, a number of posters will be railing at National for not putting forth a policy advocating for Old Testament style stonings.
      
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      September 28, 2023 9:58am
- igm
  
  That cannot be correct, these muslim lads are peaceful law abiding refugees . . . Ardern made them another of her preferred people.
  
  24 1
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  September 28, 2023 8:31am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Astonishing. This was clearly attempted murder, but 2 of them get away with 3 years jail, probably out in less than 2?
  The fact that the other 2 aren’t even being jailed clearly shows what a failed state NZ has become.
  
  BTW – the photo associated with the story is a sad reminder of how moronic the whole covid period was. A cop with an assault rifle standing on his own, wearing a mask to ‘protect himself’.
  If ever you wanted to show someone a graphic example of moronic virtue signaling, that photo is it.
  
  Talking of crime and masks, it’s been interesting to see just how many people in court accused of criminal activity are apparently still terrified of covid and wearing mask, even though they aren’t required……
  
  Have banks had to change their signs demanding ‘no face coverings allowed’ to enter their premises? The laws of unintended but highly predictable consequences strikes again!
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:44am
- kowtow
  
  Hahaha ;
  
  Court cases forcing te media pa ahti to report facts ,contrary to the regime theme that “we pick the best and brightest” and they’re all so hard working and contribute so much” .
  
  Anyone feeling enriched yet or like celebrating the dividend that all this UN imposed diversity brings .
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:51am
  - Jack5
    
    A hundred million refugees in the world, according to the UN.
    
    New Zealand relies on the UN to select its refugees.
    
    Meanwhile in the Middle East, Muslims are again hammering Armenians, a Christian people. We could take in a hundred or two Christians.
    
    In a way, the rise of ethnic-Afghan gangsters in Auckland is down to the UN and all those who champion it, people like Helen Clark and the ex-Mormon hijab woman.
    
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    September 28, 2023 9:42am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  “Tarat Bakhshi had been studying to become a pharmacist prior to the Covid-19 pandemic derailing his academic ambitions”
  
  Like dope growers signing up for horticulture courses.
  
  Lol!
  
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  September 28, 2023 9:19pm
oldpark

Labours track record under Hipkins. Maybe a good screaming skull on a debate .
The real question and debate. Can he defend the indefensible .Bad schools, crime, drugs, high taxes, the social security mess, racism, the health care ? crisis? unemployment, welfare state dependency, illegitimacy, the gap between rich and poor. What do these issues have in common? Politicians, the media, and our so-called leaders lie to us about them. They lie about the cause. They lie about the effect. They lie about the solutions. — Asking for hard bitten NZs voters. Exploited by Ardern/Hipkins cabal over too much ideology and not enough things that once made NZ famous for its Democracy .
Two Votes Blue will help make “NZ A Nation Once Again” not a Third World Mentality as exercised by the far left Socialist/Communism Ideology as practiced and carried out by control freaks.
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September 28, 2023 8:13am
Tricati

So, I watched the pantomime masquerading as a ‘Leaders Debate’ last night and witnessed a snapping/snarling Chihuahua talking more about National and NZ First than the successes of his party’s own policies, but then, he has no success in reality other than a record debt level.
With the Health System stuffed, Tertiary education reforms an absolute shambles, Law & Order the worst I have seen in my 68 years, Housing increases based on buying houses (Not Building) at inflated prices keeping a number of first home buyers out of the market, kids still in poverty and homeless hanging around malls a level never seen before – What the hell did Hipkins have to crow about.
As a summary, all I saw was a smart-arse bully behaving in a petulant manner, against someone (Luxon), who in the main, kept his cool and looked like a statesman. If the MSM think this is a game changer for Labour they have mistaken the psyche of the average kiwi, as we don’t like smart-arse bullies.
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September 28, 2023 8:17am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  That chihuahua will not tell you what he is going to do because he has no clue. Once he does find out what the other Parties will do, he will do the direct opposite.
  If I was Luxon I would fill the little chihuahua with some shit, then stand back and watch the fireworks – except the media would not report it.
  
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  September 28, 2023 9:43am
- Paulus
  
  Whilst we did not turn on the so called debate it was because we have made up our minds to get rid of the Ardern Government as soon as possible with two ticks each blue.
  Not interested in Act, only National.
  
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  September 28, 2023 11:34am
  - leoj
    
    So, not interested in any real change then………
    
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    September 28, 2023 1:23pm
Cassandra

Four Comancheros attack a Headhunter with a machete. Severely injure him, close to murder. Two get 3 years imprisonment and two get home detention. Some may feel that murdering a Headhunter should result in a medal but that’s not really the point of a justice system. Is attacking a gang enemy a lesser crime? Some of the Murder Inc offenders (Mafia murdering Mafia) got the electric chair.
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September 28, 2023 8:19am
- wsk12345
  
  Here’s a great policy. Any patched gang member who commits a murder’ or attempted murder gets sent to an Island somewhere where they can all proceed to do what they like to each other. I do t even mind providing them with booze, methamphetamine and firearms.
  
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  September 28, 2023 1:52pm
Cinematic

Didn’t watch the debate as I barely watch legacy TV but it sounds like being shouty won. I have to say that the leftists out there do like a good holler. Shouty is something they excel at. The stuff that actually matters, not so much.
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September 28, 2023 8:19am
- nathie
  
  The shouty Hipkins was a turn off. Literally.
  
  I stopped watching at the first ad break, unlike the TV1 debate watched full debate (but not the analysis).
  
  So no eyeballs from me watching TV3 and their ads.
  
  Perhaps Gower ought to rein in shouty Hipkins next time if TV3 actually want viewers?
  
  After all the msm complain that Parliament question time can be like a shouty kindergarten … so why enable this in their tv debates?
  
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  September 28, 2023 9:49am
  - Paulus
    
    I would rather, and am amazed, that whoever chose shouty Gower – he was not a participant after all, but he spoke the most in the evening, constantly interrupting Luxon, I am told.
    
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    September 28, 2023 11:37am
    - leoj
      
      Could it be that Luxon has no fight?
      
      Apparently (I don’t have TV), when confronted with a NZ First candidate’s so called racist comments (i.e. – not even his own party), Luxon was too slow to inform Hipkins of Willie Jackson’s and Marama Davidson’s overt racist comments.
      
      Not quick enough, not tough enough but plenty woke is Luxon.
      
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      September 28, 2023 1:29pm
Guy Preston

Caught some of the “debate” highlights this morning…
Menstrual leave? FFS Luxon… add more cost to business why don’t ya.
Pay equality for Nurses? FFS2, a theater nurse and a GP’s nurse are not remotely the same job!
Being challenged by Hipkins on keeping your word? FFS Luxon that’s your opportunity to slam him on every fuck up he’s made in the last 6 years.
Stand your damn ground man! you’re making it easy for the MSM FFS…
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September 28, 2023 8:22am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The question was about Menopause leave…
  
  I think the entire Education, Health and Supermarket retail systems in NZ would fall over if women took menopause leave.
  
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  September 28, 2023 9:30am
  - kowtow
    
    And the “trans women” could get in on the claim too ……….
    
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    September 28, 2023 11:01am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Menstrual leave? Only just found out about this. Menstruation is not an illness or a sickness. If this ever gets off the ground there will be 25% of women on leave at different times. That would mean increasing staff.
  Nek minut the men who can have babies will be on the band-wagon!
  
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  September 28, 2023 9:53am
  - Damocles11
    
    It was ‘menopause leave’, not ‘menstrual leave’. GP has got that totally wrong. Hipkins immediately says “yes” and Luxon says something like “we could look at it.” Is anyone going to be talking about this in 6 months time? Luxon could say we could look at an NZ manned mission to Mars as well, doesn’t mean it’ll ever get out of the starting gate.
    
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    September 28, 2023 10:09am
    - Guy Preston
      
      Like I said, I caught the AM show sound bite highlights (as I was leaving for work and was writing about it almost 2 hours later), which definitely presented it as Luxon being in agreement.
      
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      September 28, 2023 10:29am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      OK, menopause is quite different. There were clearly days when the engineering workshop office staff should not be there. Stubborn, and nothing will change that. Who is making the product? Not the person answering the phone and doing costings.
      Stubborn, very hard to work with.
      
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      September 28, 2023 11:34am
- rockape
  
  Most nurses working outside hospitals have moved to their current jobs for the easier life. I know several good nurses who left so they don’t work weekends or nights. Don’t have to deal with the violence drunk and drugged every weekend in ED yet having made that decision they now want equal pay.
  
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  September 28, 2023 9:57am
- Paul Marsden
  
  It was an inane question put by an inane Gower.
  
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  September 28, 2023 10:32am
- thirteenstars
  
  It was “menopause” leave, not menstrual.
  
  Regardless, that Luxon even entertained the idea is telling. How could a man be *more* ignorant of how he was being played.
  
  What’s wrong with NO.
  
  I suspect the women watching would have guffawed, what the fuck! They knowing full-well what a rort it would be. And then, upon reflection, feeling quite sad that NZ men had become such simpering fools.
  
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  September 28, 2023 10:49am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    What’s wrong with just regular sick leave?
    
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    September 28, 2023 9:24pm
- leoj
  
  It’s too late to expect Luxon to develop a spine, let alone the quickness of thought to actually fight back.
  
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  September 28, 2023 1:30pm
- Ghost
  
  What luxon said is they he hadn’t thought about it, but is open to it, he was answering a question that he would have had no prep for.
  
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  September 28, 2023 9:35pm
RockyJ

I didn’t watch the Leaders’ debate last night but I did read the sum up in the Herald. All four “expert” journalists said Chris Hipkins won.

At the end of the article was my morning laugh. The Herald ran a poll asking readers who won. Of the 68,000+ who responded 28% said Hipkins and 62% said Luxon.

Shows how out of touch Herald journalists are with their readers. Also validates a lesson I learned as a lawyer “never ask a question you don’t know the answer to
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September 28, 2023 8:24am
alex Masterley

I listened as best I could to the “debate” last night as I had some things to do for work.
All I could hear was yapping from Hipkins that really contributed little to the event.
I was surprised Luxon got a word in edgewise.
I want in debates a contest of ideas not a contest of who can shout the loudest. Hipkins must have missed that memo.
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September 28, 2023 8:25am
- Guy Preston
  
  To be fair, thats all he’s got after 6 years of fail…
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:28am
- Tomtoddy
  
  It was run like a job interview for a job in the circus. Thats because tv relies on shallow crap to get advertisers. Gower is really too young to be doing college work – more of a primary school participant.
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:33am
  - Warren
    
    Tomtoddy they really got a shock when Lloyd Burr tried to do a hit on Luxon with the older couple who’s land is covered in silt when they condemned Labour for there lack of understanding the problem and not doing there job, but backed National to fix it if there is a change of Government.
    
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    September 28, 2023 8:51am
- pdm
  
  Alex – I watched a very ordinary game of what used to be called Provincial Rugby instead.
  
  Bay Of Plenty beat Southland if anyoneis interested.
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:35am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    pdm – certainly much more interesting than the clown show on mainstream TV.
    
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    September 28, 2023 8:47am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  All I could hear was yapping from Hipkins that really contributed little to the event.
  
  Yes, he did come across as a snappy little dog.
  
  It seems the MSM journos love this type of full-frontal attack mode…
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300978859/the-crescendo-of-chrises-epic-debate-a-shot-in-the-arm-for-the-campaign–and-hipkins
  
  The poor dears must have hated the “Be Kind” Jacinda years.
  
  Well, the “debate” just confirmed to me that our PM is a fairly repellent creature when his bonhomie mask drops.
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:36am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    The venerable “Stuff” say Hipkins got a shot in the arm for his campaign. A shot in the arm? The second debate was meaningless, the vast majority have already decided who to vote for. No wonder Stuff is going bust. They haven’t figured that their opinions don’t mean a jot to the rest of us.
    
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    September 28, 2023 8:45am
    - rockape
      
      A debate on the 15th OCt would be much more entertaining.
      
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      September 28, 2023 10:01am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Correct.
    Same as Ms Ardern was. All sweetness and light in public.
    Different story behind the scenes.
    As said on GD last night, the most significant aspect to come out of yet another poorly run debate was the left wingers on the panel afterwards agreeing that Hipkins sounded sounded like the leader of the opposition and Luxon sounded like the Prime Minister …………
    
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    September 28, 2023 8:51am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I had a neighbour who works in HR at Air NZ. She deals with staff complaints, many which involved Ardern off camera and off mic.
      There is a real nasty headcase there.
      
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      September 28, 2023 10:00am
      - Keith White
        
        A few people witnessed her actual self acting out in a Koru lounge. Whoah! Reminded me of a certain -also Labour – MP acting out on a Frankfurt-to0Moscow flight more’n a couple of decades ago because it was one (economy) class only. The video if there had been one, would have gone viral, if that had been a thing…
        
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        September 28, 2023 4:07pm
- Warren
  
  Yes Alex he gets carried away with his trout mouth and fast use of the vocabulary that it is hard to understand him, but I guess that is what he wanted to do when Chris Luxon produced facts.
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:44am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  And media say Hipkins won, what bullshit, he shouted like a petulant teenager. Give me back my flag comes to mind
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:45am
  - Martonman
    
    40, 000 Herald subscribers think it was 62% to Luxon and 38% to the Other guy.
    I would trust Joe Public more than talking heads msm.
    
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    September 28, 2023 9:47am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Wussel!
    
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    September 28, 2023 10:02am
- nathie
  
  Remember how Hipkins said prior to the debate (over the last few days) he will be more aggressive this time?
  
  Well how did that work Hipkins (when actual people, not leftie msm journos, say that Luxon won’t the debate with 62% of the vote)!
  
  Hipkins … gets it wrong again!
  
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  September 28, 2023 9:52am
  - kowtow
    
    ‘gets it wrong again!’
    
    As do the so called media expert commentators.
    
    And they did with the minor one too , declaring that loon Davidson the winner.
    
    Anyone else note the pattern .
    
    These people’s bias would make the North Korean media blush with embarassment .
    
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    September 28, 2023 10:59am
    - rockape
      
      Even the token right wing commentator was anti Nat. Could that be she was sacked by Judith Collins for being a drunk?
      
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      September 28, 2023 12:45pm
- Piniwi
  
  Chippie’s yapping was made more pronounced as Luxon stuck to what he was saying and ignored the little fellow. Again the moderator tried to make into something altogether different than a debate we had hoped for. Then when Pagani started to sing Chippies praises it was apparent it was all staged and did not bother to hear the guy on the panel after his train wreck interview with David Seymore. Like Paddy he too is better to stick to radio.
  
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  September 28, 2023 6:32pm
Maggie Pie

Jeepers…they say “Paddy Gower’s Got Issues”

What about that guy Julian Wilcox! 🙁
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September 28, 2023 8:27am
krazykiwi

In an uber in Akl. Just passed a billboard bearing Hipkin’s laborious curated smiling face, and the slogan “In it for you”.

This is clearly brazen contempt for the intelligence of voters 99% of whom know that all politicians are essentially in it for themselves.
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September 28, 2023 8:30am
- ClanMcleod
  
  I had a different take on it.
  
  “In it for you.”
  
  Was it addressed to Ardern and was he saying that his carefully curated, lifelong political career is in tatters, and he’s up to his neck in shit? That he took the fall for her failures?
  
  There must be some talented graphic artist who can create that meme???
  
  🤡🤡🤡
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:53am
  - rouppe
    
    That would be “In it because of you”
    
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    September 28, 2023 9:28am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It is the prestige of being PM, and having the title ‘former PM of NZ Chris Hipkins’ forever. The amount of shit he is in does not matter to him.
    
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    September 28, 2023 10:07am
- cmm
  
  Where have you been KK. Those are all over the place.
  
  There is some promise in that the signs I see in the socialist hell hole of east Chch are getting defaced. Normally this is safe Labour land, but the peasants seem to be revolting a bit.
  
  Some witty: Modifying the text to “In you” or “Ruin it for you”.
  
  Some less witty, like cock and balls sketches pointing into Chippie’s face.
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:55am
  - krazykiwi
    
    I’ve been in UK, France, Spain, Oman, UAE 😉 😉
    
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    September 28, 2023 4:23pm
slightlyrighty

Does the media not understand that their endless prattling on about Winston is the main reason he is rising in the bloody polls!

The other thing that I note, is that whenever the media report on the makeup of parliament, they ALWAYS assume that Te Pati Maori will retain an electorate seat. While it’s likely, it is by no means certain!

NZ First may well have a role to play in the formation of the government, but that requires no overhang for the Nats, which is a possibility, and it also requires Te Pati Maori to gain an electorate seat.

If Te Pati Maori fails to get a seat, last nights poll numbers give the Nats and ACT a 1 seat majority.

The Nats currently have 24 Electorate Seats, Labour have 43. 36% of the Party Vote gets you 43 seats. Can the Nats win back 20 seats or more?

Lets see. I beleive that it’s possible
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September 28, 2023 8:35am
- virtualmark
  
  The media *love* having Winston in the race.
  
  The media’s incentive is to have lots of drama. Not to get the country the best possible Government. Winston gives good drama, so they will build him up because that suits their own purposes. Winston is also toxic for us as a country, but they either (a) don’t care or (b) are too dumb to worry about that.
  
  The media will fiddle while Rome burns. Hell, the media would provide a complete orchestra.
  
  (Note: Very similar dynamic in the US, where CNN, NY Times etc love having Trump in the mix because he brings in viewers, which in turn brings in advertising $)
  
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  September 28, 2023 9:22am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    You are right VM. Winston in the race gives msm news. Without him msm are nothing, which is why I think they are making it up.
    Come Oct 15 the new Govt will be National/Act. Winston and NZF can die a natural death. No more blackmail – ever!
    
    Oh, stop picking on my good friend Donald Trump 🙂
    
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    September 28, 2023 10:14am
kowtow

Didn’t watch the whole thing , couldn’t take the talking over , interupting , un moderated blather , but I see all 4 Whoreald “experts” gave a win to Hipkins ……..
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September 28, 2023 8:45am
cmm

Anyone else notice the language being used in $1uff?

“Epic debate a shot in the arm for the campaign – and Hipkins”

The campaign. Nope, not Labour’s campaign. The campaign.

This is the sort of language that is used when only one thing matters. It is a clear admission of bias.

It’s a bit like talking about the chances for the world cup. If the team is not mentioned, then we assume they are talking about the All Blacks because that would be the obvious bias. It would also be a reasonable bias as we are NZ (still) and All Blacks are the national team (still).

The media are no longer even trying to pretend.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300978859/the-crescendo-of-chrises-epic-debate-a-shot-in-the-arm-for-the-campaign–and-hipkins
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September 28, 2023 8:45am
- alex Masterley
  
  Given the article attributed to Tova O’Brien the obvious bias is understandable.
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:55am
  - goNZ1
    
    Tova couldnt even admit Luxon won the previous debate unlike every other lefty ‘journalist’
    
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    September 28, 2023 8:59am
  - nathie
    
    Yep when you see her name in the byline, you just know it will be heavily biased and not worth reading!
    
    Because as a reader you will learn and gain nothing except for having the journos biases confirmed.
    
    Kinda like reading (or not) a Simon Wilson article. It will be devoid of balance and facts!
    
    Hmmm one can see Tova’s future – it looks like being a female version of Simon Wilson! Biased, bitter and condescending … and definitively not worth reading (cos gave that up ‘years ago’), oh dear!
    
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    September 28, 2023 9:58am
- RoboRob
  
  Stuff and Tova are NZs equivalent to CNN. They live in a loveys leftist bubble.
  
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  September 28, 2023 9:08am
  - Jack5
    
    With news media subsidies on the line in the election, a Labour win means survival for most of the media industry.
    
    Of course they’re gonna back Labour.
    
    I didn’t watch “This is the fucking news…” Gower’s political quiz, but was it worse than the TVNZ leaders’ quiz under, “Yes, Jessica”?
    
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    September 28, 2023 10:02am
  - kowtow
    
    The Whoreald and its stable , by a big majoridy, are evry bit as bad.
    
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    September 28, 2023 10:55am
    - RoboRob
      
      Excluding Newstalk ZB which seems to have a much wider range of views.
      
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      September 28, 2023 11:32am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  A shot in the arm?
  
  Don’t use that druggy language in public, sunshine!
  
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  September 28, 2023 9:28pm
Rusty

My take on the election campaign so far is the amount of free coverage Winston Peters is getting.

Whether you like him or not the MSM are obsessed with him and Hipkins and Luxon know they can’t rule him out for obvious reasons.

Just a reminder to the MSM that NZF will never become the govt and Winston Peters will never become the Prime Minister
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September 28, 2023 8:48am
- RoboRob
  
  The MSM are really helping NZF by making him the focus of every interview with National. They are both drumming up support for Winston and using NZF as an attack platform against National.
  
  A pity we cant have a conversation about the coalition of chaos Lab / GRN / TPM would be, or the even worse Lab / NZF / GRN / TPM. Unfortunately, although the media are aware of it, it doesn’t support their aims.
  
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  September 28, 2023 9:18am
  - Jack5
    
    Spot on, RoboRob.
    
    The media also know Peters in a coalition might save all or most of the State media subsidies.
    
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    September 28, 2023 10:06am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  See my reply to VM @ 10.14.
  
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  September 28, 2023 10:24am
Damocles11

There were some very weird ‘smiles’ and facial expressions from Hipkins during the debate last night. Very strange.
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September 28, 2023 8:56am
- rouppe
  
  He’d launch into his interruption, and then when that was over:
  
  1. Smile beatifically
  2. Wobble his head
  
  The first to show that he’s such a nice man, and totally trustworthy.
  The second was an unconscious “I’m the man!” movement as he confirms to himself how well he’d done.
  
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  September 28, 2023 9:54am
- Paul Marsden
  
  Perhaps it was all those dead rats in his mouth.
  
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  September 28, 2023 10:44am
goNZ1

Hipkins needs to see a doctor this morning after that debate performance last night,Ritalin or similiar I suggest.
Who looked like a future PM and Statesman last night?
The kindness doctrine/vineer that Hipkins was supposedly part of the last 5 years has well and truly slipped off Labour as they rocket to an epic wipeout!
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September 28, 2023 8:57am
kowtow

Hey Auckland , stop shitting on our beaches!
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September 28, 2023 8:57am
- nathie
  
  Yep imagine the outrage if a million cows did that … the greenies and the media parody would be literally demanding blood!
  
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  September 28, 2023 10:02am
- Its only I
  
  So what will the fines be for that?
  20k average fine if a valve sticks causing a cow poo spill down here.
  
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  September 28, 2023 10:13am
  - kowtow
    
    Shocking isn’t it .
    
    Greens etc are very relaxed about human shit on city amenities like beaches ( and indeed dog shit in play parks) while practically the whole urban set is so hypocritically and noisily adamant about keeping rivers “clean”.
    
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    September 28, 2023 10:53am
cmm

I think all the talk of coalition partners is missing the point.

The most obvious coalition partnership would be National + Labour.

Think about it:
* Their policies are pretty much the same.
* They are closer to each other than to any other parties they form coalitions with.
* It could be a long relationship with a huge majority. Enough to do whatever they want.
* They would get a few more competent people in with the idealists.

Now personally that’s the last thing I’d want, but from their side I think they are missing a big thing.
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September 28, 2023 8:59am
- Cinematic
  
  You may have had a point comparing National and Labour of the past. But the current Labour and National parties couldn’t have a greater separation in terms of quality of personnel or outlook on the future of NZ.
  
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  September 28, 2023 9:06am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Yeah I have heard that before. SOME of their policies are aligned. In theory. In practice, there are significant differences. Transport, taxation, resource management, health, are examples. Even climate change, where they are currently substantially aligned.. that will not last. Another couple of years, National commitment to “net zero” will collapse as the costs become clear. Whereas Labour would actually drive over the cliff.
  
  Then there are the people. Read the profiles of every National candidate and every Labour candidate. It is like they are from different planets. No way they could work together.
  
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  September 28, 2023 9:07am
  - cmm
    
    Sure, all parties have differences.
    
    I don’t think that they are far apart on Climate Change. It is one of Nicola’s big things as a “Green blue/Blue Green”.
    
    While Luxon might be the current face of National, Nicola is the future.
    
    Look at the stuff about subsidising EVs. There is no disagreement between them about funding EVs. The only difference is whether it should be through cash hand outs or building charging stations for them. Both are “nanny knows best” policies which hand out subsidies for EVs.
    
    In many ways this is double-dipping. First Aunty Cindy gives you the rebatse, then Uncle Luxon gives you free chargers.
    
    I think both would happily drive off the climate cliff. Luxon and Willis would just do it more competently.
    
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    September 28, 2023 9:18am
    - rouppe
      
      I don’t believe they were ever “free chargers” just like the fibre rollout wasn’t “free internet”.
      
      They are chargers. They will not only charge the EV, they will charge the EV owner. Different type of charging.
      
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      September 28, 2023 9:59am
      - cmm
        
        Sure, “free” was probably not the right word. Heavily subsidised would be better.
        
        Something like the bus rides and Hamilton train for which the users only pay a token amount.
        
        If it is going to be free market, then why not leave it to some company to install the network? Why does the state (and the taxpayer’s wallet) need to be involved?
        
        If EV owners really want a network of charging stations then here’s a suggestion:
        * Form a club.
        * Allow people who are members of the club to use the facilities (and maybe charge non-members an extra levy).
        
        That’s how many organisations in NZ work. For example the caravan/motorhome club, fishing licenses etc.
        
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        September 28, 2023 11:46am
      - rouppe
        
        I’m a bit surprised existing service stations don’t just install charging at their sites, or partner with meridian or something to do that.
        
        After all, fueling is fueling. No need for a whole different network
        
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        September 28, 2023 12:22pm
      - Colville
        
        rouppe
        The (one of) problem with EV charging is it takes a long time/$ worth of juice so the rental $$ on the realestate is low on a $/hr basis.
        
        You cant do it economically on a forecourt of a gas station, a spot by a petrol pump can sell $500 of petrol an hour…a spot by a EV charger is maybe $20/hr. There is no money in it and inner city real estate needs $$ to pay the rent!
        
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        September 28, 2023 1:45pm
      - rouppe
        
        @colville then surely the price of the charging goes up.
        
        Why does eV charging have to be at cost? Or be the same around the country?
        
        The reason there is price variability with fuel sometimes comes down to location.
        
        If an eV wants a high current charge, it costs more. If they want to occupy the space for 2 hours, it costs more. If a supermarket wants to attract custom by having cheaper charging, so be it.
        
        No one owes eV owners cheap charging, just like no one owes me cheap diesel.
        
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        September 28, 2023 8:09pm
  - Bullion
    
    Adhering to our Paris agreement, which National signed, is part of the FTA signed with the EU.
    
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    September 28, 2023 10:44am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I think we have pretty much a Labour + National partnership on a number of issues:
  
  Climate change policies
  Defence
  ToW settlements/ Co-Governance
  
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  September 28, 2023 9:10am
  - cmm
    
    Exactly. Print both National and Labour’s policies out on white paper and most people could not tell the difference.
    
    The only real difference is in the language used to describe it and the way they would execute the policies.
    
    Fundamentally, National and Labour are closer to eachother than National is to Act or Labour is to Green.
    
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    September 28, 2023 9:31am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      No matter how close we may think they are, when the heat comes on Labour are still the ‘nasty’ Party. The will do just the opposite of National out of spite, mark my words.
      Look at their ex-leader. The heat in the kitchen was too hot. Nothing left in the tank my arse. After what she did to out lovely Country she walked away – right away. No sorry, no goodbye, just exit stage left.
      Worst PM ever, worst Labour Party ever, worst lies ever, worst everything.
      
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      September 28, 2023 10:47am
  - Damocles11
    
    I think when National are scrapping Labour policies relating to climate change, it’s not logical to say that they have the same climate change policies.
    
    Luxon is pushing for more renewable energy. Set aside any of the ‘climate change’ stuff, and this policy still makes sense. Less reliance on imported fossil fuels from overseas, less particulate matter in the air we breathe. How is this not a good thing? It is smart from Luxon, yet not good enough for the idealogues who want him to come out thundering that climate change is fake….and National will be changing abortion laws as well btw. So they want an NZ version of Trump in other words. But the NZ populace has a totally different outlook than the US populace.
    
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    September 28, 2023 12:53pm
- peterwn
  
  Won’t happen. Labour and Green would rather sell out to Winston than have anything to do with National as happened in 2017. Greens were totally powerless at the time and just had to take the crumbs that Winston allowed Labour to offer to the Greens.
  
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  September 28, 2023 9:48am
  - nathie
    
    And look what Jimmy did with those $ crumbs … splashed it on a Green School. That they didn’t ask for!
    
    Thank goodness it was only $ crumbs, imagine what they would do if they had absolute power …. like under a Labour/Greens/Maori Party Coalition Of ~~Chaos~~ Crazies!
    
    (And how will that work out, Chippie. Imagine leading that mess)!
    
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    September 28, 2023 10:07am
kowtow

Yet another anti Nat cartoon from the Whoreald .
Again on the tax plan.
It’s relentless , and yet Labour get a free pass on unfunded spend up , that’s put us in this hole.
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September 28, 2023 9:00am
- RoboRob
  
  Stuff is on my banned list, i’m not giving them clicks, so I cant check. My money would be on their cartoon being either environmental commentary or an attack on National / act.
  
  14 1
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  September 28, 2023 9:21am
  - Mark Hanley
    
    The despicable and unintelligent NZ media attacks on National have stepped up in the last few days.
    
    It is a great sign that Labour are staring into a deep abyss and are using their huge monetary support for the despicable and unintelligent NZ media to try to moderate their inevitable electoral descimation.
    
    It won’t work!
    
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    September 28, 2023 12:02pm
- Damocles11
  
  Anyone buying, or subscribing to, The New Zealand Herald is obviously someone who is happy to directly fund the aims of Leftism, namely the utter destruction of our society.
  
  5 1
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  September 28, 2023 12:59pm
  - Ghost
    
    You could make the same claim about anyone subscribing to zb plus or listening to newstalk zb
    
    1 4
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    September 28, 2023 1:05pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Labour have increased govt advertising to a whopping $130million of taxpayer money a year – funnelled to their favorite propagandizing outlets. We’re just seeing the result of that bribery.
  
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  September 28, 2023 2:03pm
kowtow

Nats have surrendered in Dunedin.
Very disappointing.

‘National Dunedin candidate Michael Woodhouse was a prominent no-show at a major election debate yesterday, sparking conjecture as to what role the long-serving list MP will play during this election campaign.’

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/woodhouse-absent-local-candidates-debate
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September 28, 2023 9:07am
- peterwn
  
  He probably had no confidence that the debate would be conducted in an even handed fair way.
  
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  September 28, 2023 9:43am
- Jack5
  
  Woodhouse was dropped down the National Party list, so he’s obviously sulking.
  
  It will be interesting to see how the Parliamentary coverage fares now of Dunedin’s Otago Daily Times.
  
  The newspaper seemed to get a bit of inside running on what was happening around Parliament. Could Woodhouse have been a source?
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/08/election-2023-michael-woodhouse-out-multiple-mps-plummet-in-national-party-s-new-election-list.html
  
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  September 28, 2023 9:53am
- thirteenstars
  
  I saw it all. The last defenders were barricaded into a townhouse on Highgate surrounded by baying Labour supporters.
  
  At 5:45 the blue flag came down, replaced by a Highlanders pennant which seemed to confuse the protestors.
  
  The small band of Nats drove off to the chant:
  
  National is through
  Dunedin stays red
  Chippie’s our man
  Luxon’s a poo-poo head
  
  The real crime was the ham-fisted metre.
  
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  September 28, 2023 10:19am
Cassandra

Might it be possible to improve this blog’s moderation speed? I know you’re all volunteers but the whole point of commenting is blunted by your tardiness. Any chance of some sort of approved commenter status? Or does one have to pay?
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September 28, 2023 9:08am
- Benedict Yu
  
  AFAIK you cannot pay money to DPF to be exempted from moderation. 😂
  
  11 1
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  September 28, 2023 9:50am
  - Colville
    
    Bene.
    You just haven’t offered him enough 🙂
    
    5 1
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    September 28, 2023 1:47pm
- Matt Long
  
  Posting under your real name does it, or perhaps ask to become a moderator.
  
  8 0
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  September 28, 2023 10:06am
  - Cassandra
    
    Didn’t know that, tks. I adopted a nom de plume while working. Will revert to reality.
    
    [Mod – you don’t need to change your name, details on how to be approved are at
    
    Kiwiblog content and comments]
    
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    September 28, 2023 10:48am
    - H. Upmann
      
      Mod – 404 – page not found
      
      [Leave out the trailing “]” and it works fine. mod.]
      
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      September 28, 2023 11:30am
ClanMcleod

The climate change fear porn uses the same narrative control and propaganda techniques as the covid fear porn narrative.

Equally, it is a complete fraud.

Here the peerless blogger Eugyppius shows us unequivocally that it is all a lie and their is a very dangerous ulterior agenda at play.

German Economics Ministry caught hiding assessment, ahead of nuclear phase-out, that keeping nuclear plants in operation would reduce emissions by as much as 30 million tonnes of CO2 per year

https://www.eugyppius.com/p/german-economics-ministry-caught

This is the level of farce this narrative has reached.

It was here that they explained the emissions implications of phasing out nuclear power:

With regard to the reduction in CO2 emissions – sometimes used as an argument in this discussion – the approximately 30 TWh of additional nuclear electricity per year from 2024 onwards would result in about 25–30 million tonnes of CO2 reduction in the German electricity supply. Yet there would be no European-wide CO2 savings, as the energy industry is subject to EU emissions trading and the cap in the EU-ETS is set independently of a possible lifetime extension [for nuclear plants] in Germany.

EU cap-and-trade bureaucracy aside, keeping our last remaining nuclear plants in operation would have reduced German emissions four-and-a-half times more than Habeck’s highly controversial and idiotic Building Energy Ordinances are slated to save, under the most optimistic assumptions, by 2030.

It’s no wonder they wanted to bury this assessment.

UPDATE: Since the nuclear phase-out, Germany has become a net electricity importer. 17.69% of our imported electricity is generated by foreign nuclear plants, mostly in France. These sources now represent more than 4% of all German power. In other words, we are currently consuming more nuclear power than we were before we shut down our last nuclear plants at Isar 2, Emsland and Neckarwestheim 2.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is clown world.

Clownworld doesn’t begin to describe what is happening on the planet currently. The place is falling apart.
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September 28, 2023 9:22am
- ClanMcleod
  
  As an addendum to that, is it any wonder the PTB are trying to install tyrannical ‘hate speech’, ‘free speech’ laws and forming ‘disinformation’ controlling bureaucracies?
  
  Keep a sharp eye on events, it is clear there is a much bigger picture behind all of these moves.
  
  I can’t say enough positive things about UK Column. Today’s (last night UK time) show covered the topic very well.
  
  https://www.ukcolumn.org/video/uk-column-news-27th-september-2023
  
  The UK is very close to implementing massive, true freedom of speech demolishing laws.
  
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  September 28, 2023 9:54am
Bridgenag

This one is for those of you with babies in the family…….
Former major city police detective reveals 50% of SIDS cases happened within 48 hours post vaccine
My 16-minute interview of Jennifer, a former police detective in a major US city who handled over 250 SIDS investigations over 7 years implicates the childhood vaccines as the major cause of SIDS.

“A real world experiment in New Zealand
Thirty years ago in New Zealand the vaccine schedule was changed from the first being at 3 months down to 6 weeks. SIDS moved with it.
Hilary Butler in New Zealand compiled a gold mine of information as she ran the “Immunisation Awareness Society” at that time and published a monthly newsletter.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/stevekirsch/p/former-major-city-police-detective?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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September 28, 2023 9:28am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Bridgenag – while here in Middle Earth, ‘nothing actually happened, but “get your booster! (Just in case!”)
  
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  September 28, 2023 10:18am
Maggie Pie

Found this interesting. I see where more info has come to light about the international-recruitment-agency ‘Robert Walters’….the same outfit where Nashie has landed his new gig.

https://twitter.com/truereckons1/status/1706861125378375904
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September 28, 2023 9:42am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It will be fun to see if Stuart Nash’s mates in Labour get recruited or whether Nashie considers them too useless for anything.
  
  https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU2309/S00381/former-cabinet-minister-stuart-nash-to-join-global-recruitment-company-robert-walters.htm
  
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  September 28, 2023 9:58am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    In it for you. 😀 😀 😀
    
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    September 28, 2023 10:20am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    I notice the role is based in Wellington! Given the number of current high earners lacking glowing business cv’s/references likely to be looking for jobs shortly the business opportunity it presents a recruitment firm is probably appealing.
    
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    September 28, 2023 10:33am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    They fire Nasho. So I suspect he will not be a referee for any of them, let alone put them up for a position. I’m not sure Robert Walters deals with Unions and teachers anyway.
    
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    September 28, 2023 10:41am
Jack5

Is the world really moving closer to electricity supply from nuclear fusion?

The article below at the international oil price site seems to suggest that it is. The second article linked to suggests Maori scientists might lead the way.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Fusion-Experiments-Shatter-Previous-Energy-Records.html

Maori in the race:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/maori-physicists-try-to-recreate-fusion-energy-on-earth/HCDCMBUNMRDOLJXRQONMGFIEOY/
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September 28, 2023 10:20am
- ClanMcleod
  
  *shudder*
  
  8 2
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  September 28, 2023 10:46am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I don’t see a small tiny Maori connection as being important.
  Do we see other research being done by Chinese, German, British? Or are they just researchers?
  What did I miss?
  
  7 2
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  September 28, 2023 11:17am
  - Jack5
    
    😜Steve, do you really think Maori have a chance in Hell of cracking nuclear fusion?
    
    Haven’t you been following the debate about science v. Maori ~~science~~ knowledge?
    
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    September 28, 2023 11:31am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Nah, must have missed that. Was it before TOW or after?
      
      3 2
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      September 28, 2023 12:29pm
    - Matt Long
      
      Don’t you know Maui created fusion when he caught the sun with a length of flax and flung it up into the sky.
      Dumb white colonialist oppressors, don’t know their history, and will probably complain when having to pay taniwha tax for nuclear power. //
      
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      September 28, 2023 1:28pm
      - Jack5
        
        Matt, Maori were granted rights to a sizeable slice of wireless frequencies over NZ.
        
        What justification could there be for that?
        
        Did Maui fish up a smart phone?
        
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        September 28, 2023 2:38pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Someone may crack this, but I am still missing any connection to Maori.
      Heaven forbid it is a non-Maori.//
      
      3 2
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      September 28, 2023 4:09pm
- All_on_Red
  
  No
  
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  September 28, 2023 12:12pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Helion Energy are expecting to demonstrate net electricity production with their latest (in line of 7 leading up to this) Polaris prototype FRC fusion reactor next year. Expect their follow-on commercial fusion reactors to be putting power into the grid before 2030.
  
  There are some other players who have longer timelines and lower probability of success (Tokamaks including ITER are a waste of time), but Helion are closest to the goal post
  
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  September 28, 2023 1:57pm
  - miltonF
    
    Really? I’ll believe it when I see it. In my opinion, fusion energy is a monumental scam. They will never get more energy out than they put in. Physics says no. Please think about it.
    
    We know that fission (splitting an atom) releases a ton of energy. Therefore, the reverse process, combining two atoms, must consume a ton of energy. Yes? It cannot be any other way. Basic thermodynamics and conservation of energy.
    
    Fusion does not create energy. It consumes it. I think there is a big misconception about our sun. People think of it as a giant fusion reactor. While this is true, the fusion is not the source of the energy. The source of the energy is the intense gravitational forces, smooshing atoms together, resulting in a fusion reaction.
    
    Essentially, the sun is a giant engine. Fusion is the “combustion cycle”. The fuel is gravity and smaller elements. The output is light and heat. The waste products are heavy elements.
    
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    September 28, 2023 6:51pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      Humans built their first successful massively net gain fusion reactor 71 years ago, and if we had no other options that approach could serve as the basis for viable fusion power based economy by just setting them off deep in the ocean and collecting the huge quantities of super-critical water in an inverted collecting cone structure to run through turbines. Hydrogen bombs can be made >95% fusion (remainder fission)
      
      Fusion is way easier if done at sufficient scale – 10’s of GW that could be done using 1970’s tech level particle accelerators with heavy ion ignition and can then be done with cheap deutrium fuel.
      But that’s too big for electrical grids, so the problem comes in scaling down the size of the ignition and confinement devices to something economic using more exotic tritium. Inertial confinement (lasers) are too expensive and inefficient due to insane power levels and extreme precision required, Tokamaks are too expensive due to enormous uneconomic size of magnetic confinement schemes.
      
      Magnetized Target Fusion – creating small plasma donuts then compressing them to fusion conditions seems far more economically viable, with smaller cheaper ignition mechanisms and smaller cheaper confinement devices. There are a couple of promising companies exploring this (Tri Alpha energy, General Fusion), with Helion closest to market, and they have done enough proof of concept experimentation to be pretty confident, in particular their ability to directly and efficiently convert plasma pressure to electricity via induction instead of with inefficient heat engines makes it far easier to achieve break-even.
      
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      September 28, 2023 7:30pm
BananaLlama

ACT still polling strong in Dunedin, Seymour should continue talking down to Luxon.
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September 28, 2023 10:20am
- kowtow
  
  have you got a link or some substance to that claim please.
  
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  September 28, 2023 10:40am
jon

We were told that the debate audience was made up of undecideds. Interesting to hear from a caller to ZB that he had sighted his old friend Richard Wagstaff, Public Service Assn, in the audience clapping whenever Hipkins was speaking. Undecided participants, yea right!
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September 28, 2023 10:24am
- kowtow
  
  I simply don’t believe te media pa ahti’s assertions.
  
  It is all literally staged.
  
  Even the demographic makeup of the folk behind Glower .
  
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  September 28, 2023 10:42am
Yvette

“We are the party with the cultural mandate and the courage to cut out your disease and bury you permanently,” Chris Hipkins quoted an NZ First candidate as saying about Māori. The Labour leader did not name the candidate in question.
“Christopher, you’re willing to work with these people – why?” Hipkins asked Luxon.
Luxon has said he would work with NZ First and “pick up the phone” to leader Winston Peters “to keep Labour and the coalition of chaos out”.
https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2023/09/general_debate_28_september_2023.html/comment-page-1#comment-3443558

So who is the unnamed candidate?
Google does not seem to know, so should Hipkins be asked to substantiate his comment?
In fact as he has not named anyone, is that because his remark is defamatory?
And does the office of Mr Foon have any comment to make on the matter?
Or do we know longer have a race relations commissioner because Hipkins Government has not appointed a replacement yet?

Of hate speech Ardern said “When you see it, you will know it”
I think I saw some yesterday evening
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September 28, 2023 10:24am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  All explained here:
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300979003/nz-first-candidate-defends-racist-comment-quoted-by-chris-hipkins-in-debate
  
  and in the phrase so often used by Labour MPs during Question Time:
  
  “in the context in which the words were said”
  
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  September 28, 2023 12:27pm
crackle

Interesting snippet in the Stuff article on donations into NZ1st seems to me Andrea Vance has unwittingly admitted she makes shit up.
“Peters declined to answer questions about the donations without a written commitment to reference his comments “in full and unchanged.”

Since there are no comments in the article from Winston it seems Andrea perfers to be able to effectivly make shit up than report.
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September 28, 2023 10:42am
Maggie Pie

My fave Sign spotted at the protest in Wellington’s Civic Square this morning….

‘GROOM DOGS
NOT CHILDREN’
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September 28, 2023 10:44am
- Gravelroad
  
  Any sign of the sprinklers being turned on yet, Maggie Pie?
  I hope Hipkins and his honour Mr Speaker have got some better loud music on stand by this time..
  My suggestion: It’s been a hard days night” – Beatles.
  
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  September 28, 2023 12:52pm
k1w1

I’m surprised no one else picked up on this from last night’s debate… Luxon, when asked about working with Peters: “I don’t know him”. Gower responded: “Well you’re certainly going to get to know him a lot better!”. Gower let slip out that he thinks the Nats are a shoe-in, eh?
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September 28, 2023 10:46am
jon

Interesting that the NZF candidate that Hipkins said made a racist comment would normally have been publically named by now by the media. Has anyone else seen where this person has been identified? If not its obviously a easy claim for Hipkins to make without the supporting evidence.
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September 28, 2023 10:47am
- Ghost
  
  he’s the timaru candidate and he’s explained his comment on stuff
  
  Article
  
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  September 28, 2023 10:52am
  - jon
    
    Thanks Ghost. Have viewed the video of the speech and agree with all he said EXCEPT the clearly unacceptable offensive piece at the end. Of course have heard just as offensive stuff against non Maori by both the co leaders of TPM and the Greens.
    
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    September 28, 2023 12:47pm
- Mrs_Right
  
  It was just desperate when Hipkins confronted Luxon with that quote last night. He is open to forming a government with Marama Davidson and Rawiri Wikuki Waititi. The two biggest racists in parliament.
  
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  September 28, 2023 1:44pm
ClanMcleod

I know that many people commenting on this blog are National supporters, I’d like your thoughts regarding the comments during the debate, that Luxon stated there should be no compensation for anyone injured by the jab. On this, he and Hipkins were united.

https://x.com/c_plushie/status/1706972369603187158?s=20

I’m not mentioning Seymour’s position on this. We know what it is, he’s a big fan of the jabs as being ‘safe and effective’, and has claimed nobody has died or been injured by it.

Both leaders in the debate deferred to the fact we have ACC. Only one problem, it’s nigh on impossible to get a doctor to report that a person has been jab injured and even harder to get ACC to accept that as a claim. The treatment of these people is inhuman.

I personally know people who have had a nightmare in our health system for the last couple of years as a consequence of jab injuries.
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September 28, 2023 10:56am
- Ghost
  
  Here is the ACC figures to July 2023. PDF
  
  5 0
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  September 28, 2023 11:19am
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    That link not working for me.
    
    “Forbidden
    You don’t have permission to access this resource.”
    
    4 0
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    September 28, 2023 12:34pm
    - Ghost
      
      That’s weird I got through Google, I’ve uploaded https://file.io/4Ev4hRs0mXfZ
      
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      September 28, 2023 12:47pm
- kevn
  
  Clan… Pass this info on to wmapp. He seems to think ACC are picking up the tab.
  If only…
  
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  September 28, 2023 6:54pm
Paul Marsden

“Luxon not open to providing compensation to those suffering from vaccine injuries” Somehow I think he’s going to live to regret that comment (and spare me any insulting comments about ACC payments Mr. Hipkins)
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September 28, 2023 10:59am
- Wayne Mapp
  
  Why is the ACC payment concept insulting for injuries caused by the vaccine?
  All injuries in new Zealand, including medical misadventure, are compensated through ACC.
  It is not just the medical costs and rehabilitation, it is also monetary compensation, both lump sum and earnings based.
  National would have exactly the same policy, that is, compensation through ACC.
  There won’t be a seperate scheme for vaccine injuries, it will be ACC, which is designed for this very purpose.
  
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  September 28, 2023 1:06pm
  - kevn
    
    wmapp… Do tell us how many jabees have had claims accepted by ACC.
    
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    September 28, 2023 1:53pm
  - Paul Marsden
    
    First problem is getting any clinician brave enough to risk de-registration by the NZMC, for daring to speak out.
    
    The second problem is that the adverse affects of the jab continue to be swept under the carpet, despite the mounting and irrefutable evidence from around the globe, that states otherwise.
    
    The ACC is difficult enough to deal with at the best of times, let alone getting them to go against the grain of the prevailing opinion of the govt and the NZMC
    
    I think this exhange today with a member of my family who’s life has been destroyed by the jab, might be the best response…
    
    ME: Some how I thought you would say that.
    
    I’m talking about all the health issues you have suffered since the jab?
    
    Also, can you confirm that you (ie your doctor) has registered your issues with the ACC for compensation?
    
    HER: I feel like shit and want to die – desperately.
    
    ME: I guess you just haven’t asked your doctor to file a compensation claim. Would that be correct?
    
    HER: No, have not.
    
    For the record Wayne, this woman was a vivacious and perfectly fit and healthy 39 y/o before the jab over two years ago. Five blood transfusions later and a team of doctors who have given her almost every medical test known, they are unable to come up with answers as to why she has an auto-immune disease (almongst other presentations such as high heart rate etc.)
    
    If you search the literature, there is now a mountain of evidence linking auto immune presentations, directly to the jab.
    
    The doctors call her the ‘mystery woman’, when in fact I believe they are too frightened to risk their careers for daring to even consider linking it to the jab.
    
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    September 28, 2023 2:08pm
    - kevn
      
      cmon wmapp… We and Paul are waiting. A long time I’m guessing.
      Putting out the (supposed) ACC role in this is just bullsh*t.
      
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      September 28, 2023 3:54pm
      - kevn
        
        Paul… I am truly saddened that your family member suffered so and now has to tolerate the situation.
        wmapp is just shadow boxing/foxing suggesting the supposed ACC role. It just adds to the pain knowing the doctors are basically gagged. So much for the ‘do no harm’.
        Tell her many in NZ really do care and the chipping away at the perps won’t stop.
        
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        September 28, 2023 4:58pm
ClanMcleod

Last post from me for a spell, off to golf – (you’re welcome!)

Top U.S. Government Vaccine Adviser Refuses to Get Latest Covid Shot as He Warns of Long Term Impact of Myocarditis

In a tweeted video addressing the question, this is part of his rationale.

“We’re going to find out about this vaccine over time,” he warns, describing the whole approach as a “novel strategy”.

We certainly were surprised by myocarditis and pericarditis and we’ll see whether or not over time when we’re five years into this, 10 years into this, 15 years into this, whether there’s any evidence of residual myocardial disease because the reason you have myocarditis is you’re making immune response to your own heart muscle… We’ll find out about that over time.

Dr. Offit has previously been a cheerleader, not only for the Covid vaccines but for the vaccine mandates that forced millions of Americans to get the shots or quit their careers.

https://dailysceptic.org/2023/09/26/top-u-s-government-vaccine-adviser-refuses-to-get-latest-covid-shot-as-he-warns-of-long-term-impact-of-myocarditis/

The covid narrative is collapsing like the total house of cards that it always was.

In NZ? “Nothing actually happened in the last three years and by the way! Get your booster!!!”

Our political class and bureaucrats are as dangerous as they are embarrassingly spineless. And people wonder why desperate people are listening to Peters again?

Think about it. It’s not rocket science.
13 6
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September 28, 2023 11:06am
- Paul Marsden
  
  Elon Musk sums it up well..
  https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1706676593261785178
  
  13 0
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  September 28, 2023 11:55am
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    Love it! Thank you for the link.
    
    4 0
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    September 28, 2023 12:42pm
Maggie Pie

I find this an alarming stat…..

New applicants for ‘Police College’ have plumeted 50% in the last four years!

https://twitter.com/NewshubNZ/status/1707145993509327004

You can chalk that up Ardern and Labors soft-on-crime mantra. As my partners mum said when she forwarded me the link….that stupid bitch has absolutely rooted this country.
22 2
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September 28, 2023 11:07am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  She walked away with no penalty. Disgusting.
  
  15 3
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  September 28, 2023 11:27am
  - cmm
    
    Of course there are no penalties. She did what she was asked to. Now she’s getting the rewards.
    
    NZ was always just an annoying stepping stone on her career.
    
    12 2
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    September 28, 2023 11:52am
    - kevn
      
      cmm… dan andrews will be joining her at the $ watering hole.
      
      6 0
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      September 28, 2023 4:20pm
  - Keith White
    
    It ain’t over yet. One day, chickens will roost. You and I may not be alive to see it, but karma generally runs over dogma in the long run.
    
    10 2
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    September 28, 2023 4:09pm
- Ian Boag
  
  New applicants for ‘Police College’ have plumeted 50% in the last four years
  
  Do they still get enough to fill each wing?
  
  2 0
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  September 28, 2023 7:01pm
Tauhei Notts

The spate of shoplifting seems to be worldwide.
My broker has just advised selling the American company, Target Corporation short, because so many of their stores have been forced to close.
It is a pity that one cannot short sell New Zealand companies as some might be taking on unemployed former Labour M.P.’s.
11 1
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September 28, 2023 11:15am
- All_on_Red
  
  Funnily enough I was just reading this article
  https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2023/09/27/non-petty-theft-112-billion-dollars-n580758
  ‘Retailers reported losing a record $112.1 billion to inventory shrink in 2022, according to the National Retail Federation’s annual Retail Security Survey, published Tuesday.
  External theft was the largest contributing factor to shrink, followed by theft by employees. Combined, the two categories of theft account for roughly two-thirds of total shrink.’
  
  Target gets a mention about their Store closures. They are not the only Chain to start closing stores.
  
  5 0
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  September 28, 2023 12:05pm
goNZ1

I got 4 jabs and were fine so dont worry about it mate
5 17
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September 28, 2023 11:19am
- mandk
  
  So that was based on a representative survey of you?
  
  10 0
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  September 28, 2023 12:21pm
  - greybeard
    
    What was the margin of error ?
    
    7 0
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    September 28, 2023 1:44pm
  - kingerstinger
    
    Yes, he should have absolutely consulted the representative survey that is KB’s tinfoil hat brigade
    
    0 1
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    September 28, 2023 7:06pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Go on, tell us more about all the conspiracy theories that didn’t come true. 🙄🤡🤡🤡
      
      1 0
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      September 29, 2023 2:05am
- Matt Long
  
  I rode my motorcycle drunk when I was stupid 16, didn’t get hurt. DUI is safe.//
  
  13 1
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  September 28, 2023 1:31pm
- Keith White
  
  Good for you, I’m not worrying about you. I hope you can stay unworried about yourself as the evidence continues to mount.
  
  7 2
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  September 28, 2023 4:10pm
- Dougal10
  
  I had none and am perfectly fine too. Maybe you didn’t need them.
  
  5 1
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  September 28, 2023 6:53pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  You must be due for a booster…..
  
  1 0
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  September 29, 2023 2:06am
Damocles11

Another appallingly biased cartoon from ‘Emmerson’ in the New Red Herald today, depicting Nicola Willis as a moron & Chris Luxon as an arrogant blue-blood. The cartoon is styled as a jigsaw puzzle with them holding Nationals ‘Foreign Buyers Tax Policy’ between them.
Both are missing the piece of the jigsaw puzzle where their brains should be.
10 1
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September 28, 2023 11:24am
- artemisia
  
  Foreign buyers tax – reports of Russian oligarchs moving their money to UAE. Quite likely some will find its way to New Zealand when that door is open.
  
  Not talking about a 2 beddie in Herne Bay either. Wonder if National thought about impacts of an influx of serious money from states and people with very different values to ours.
  
  8 0
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  September 28, 2023 12:32pm
  - kowtow
    
    Both main parties are wedded to the Make Glorious People’s Republic of China , so the answer to your question is a resounding ;
    
    Comrade , you’re asking the wong question.
    
    5 3
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    September 28, 2023 2:05pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    No different from many of the less wealthy immigrants to NZ in the last 20 years, then
    
    2 0
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    September 28, 2023 9:44pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/seymour-needs-to-come-out-more-strongly-and-definitely-against-co-governance/
That link works but is wrongly worded.
Today’s post:

What Australian Commentator Alan Jones Says About Australia Applies Exactly To New Zealand.
Alan Jones video 9.19.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-cblBj6zn4
9 3
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September 28, 2023 11:53am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Jones basically describes exactly what the Iwi Mafia here in NZ are doing.
  
  9 1
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  September 28, 2023 1:09pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Enter Michelle Obama.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXBjKOY3EP0
5 2
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September 28, 2023 12:01pm
Maggie Pie

WATCH: full screen/sound up

I’ve got no idea who this guy is…..but you can see why everybody adores Tiktok 😀

https://tiktok.com/@officialbazookahands/video/7277192644697066782
2 1
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September 28, 2023 1:35pm
- Colville
  
  That is bizarre.
  and as if grip strength has anything to do with biceps….
  
  4 0
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  September 28, 2023 1:54pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I read where a woman had ‘Synthol’ injected in her butt.
    Didn’t improve her grip either 😀
    
    5 0
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    September 28, 2023 2:45pm
    - Keith White
      
      The end of her end is nigh?
      
      5 0
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      September 28, 2023 4:10pm
greybeard

Place your bets, folks.
How long after Cane comes off the bench before he gets a yellow card ?
3 1
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September 28, 2023 1:43pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  He’ll probably get injured before then, won’t he?
  
  0 0
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  September 28, 2023 5:47pm
Chuck Bird

Is anyone here going to support our farmers on Saturday at 10:30 am at the Base?
6 1
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September 28, 2023 1:55pm
- Steve Todd
  
  Why do you ask, Chuck? And what is “the Base”?
  
  5 2
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  September 28, 2023 2:09pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Good point Todd. The Base is on the northern outskirts of Hamilton.
    
    For those who have heard of Groundswell the link to their itinerary is below.
    
    https://www.groundswellnz.co.nz/itinerary#itinerary-9
    
    6 1
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    September 28, 2023 2:13pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Hey Chuck, you can call me Steve.
      
      I ask again, why do you ask? And what is the Base?
      
      5 2
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      September 28, 2023 2:24pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        Steve, The Base is a large shopping mall at the northern part of Hamilon. Have you heard of Groundswell?
        
        7 1
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        September 28, 2023 2:59pm
      - greybeard
        
        Hey Steve: what is “Google” ?
        
        6 1
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        September 28, 2023 3:28pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Thanks, Chuck. We don’t all live in Hamilton you know.
        
        But, you still haven’t answered my question: why do you ask?
        
        On the assumption that you’re not going to, then, what you should have said was, “I’m going to support our farmers at the Groundswell event at the Base (in Hamilton) on Saturday morning. Will any other Kiwibloggers be doing likewise?” [Followed by the Groundswell link.]
        
        That way, everyone would have immediately known what you were on about.
        
        4 6
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        September 28, 2023 3:49pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        @greybeard @ 3:28PM
        
        Fair question, greybeard.
        
        What I was getting at, is that Chuck has an annoying habit of asking oblique questions, without any context – whereby he is clearly assuming that the rest of us just automatically know what he is referring to. It gets up my nose. So, I decided to have a crack at him, in the hope that he improves from now on.
        
        7 3
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        September 28, 2023 4:05pm
Benedict Yu

My car was broken into yesterday. There is a two week wait for window replacement because they are so busy. 🙁

Fun fact for the day. New Zealand has the highest per capita car theft rate globally. The rate per capita is (about) 100 times the car theft rate in Japan.

https://knoema.com/atlas/Japan/Private-car-theft-rate

https://knoema.com/atlas/ranks/Private-car-theft-rate#:~:text=New%20Zealand%20is%20the%20top,Canada%2C%20Sweden%2C%20and%20Australia.
28 0
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September 28, 2023 1:57pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  NZ leads the world, again!
  
  5 0
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  September 28, 2023 9:46pm
piglady

I would like to encourage all commenters on here to go and see the movie River of Freedom, preferably before they vote.
I was unvaccinated and did not support mandates and went along to the protest in the hope that ONE of our elected representatives would talk to the people. My time there was cut short because my mother whom was in a rest home passed away. The last time I saw her alive was just prior to leaving for Wellington. I blatantly reached through her room window and demanded a carer to hand me a damp facecloth so I could wipe her face with food caked around her mouth and flies hanging about her chin. The whole thing was hideous and unnecessary and watching the movie just filled me with so much anger, frustration and grief all over again!!
I have spent many hours listening to excellent commentary and interviews on RCR radio, went to the NZ first leaders meeting in my home town and still today am not decided on where my vote is going.
I expect the minority parties and NZ First will get a lot of votes. Sadly because there are so many smaller parties none except NZF may get over the threshold.
I cannot vote for any party currently in government because they behaved appallingly with regard to the protest in Wellington and have continued to ignore the facts which are readily available now. So it begs the question whether I vote with my heart and support a party that may not reach the threshold or go with NZF. Either way all the current lot are going to want those votes at the next election and over the next three years will need to find ways to garner their support.
Frankly NZF can’t be any worse in parliament than the wet blanket Luxon or David Seymour. None of them want to answer questions about excess deaths, vaccine injured etc so far during their campaigns. This country is fucked in my opinion unless some real change happens.
16 8
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September 28, 2023 2:07pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  NO
  NO
  NO
  NO
  NO
  ACT and National will not go with Labour + Greens + Maori – NZ First will if Winston gets what he wants personally, his policies are irrelevant. Hipkins and co are liars – they will try to buy Winston if they can.
  So NO!
  
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  September 28, 2023 4:00pm
Chuck Bird

I will go on 5 Oct at Lido Hamilton.
5 0
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September 28, 2023 2:20pm
Prophetess

So, Police worried that the The Freedoms & Rights Revolution convoy would bring Wellington streets to a standstill…so they decided to bring Wellington streets to a standstill themselves- blocking roads the day prior
24 0
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September 28, 2023 3:17pm
- Keith White
  
  If you want the prophecy to be fulfilled, you gotta fulfil it yourself.
  
  17 0
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  September 28, 2023 4:11pm
Swifty

This is why Winston et al is likely to get back in:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-nz-first-leader-winston-peters-backs-the-candidate-whose-racist-quote-was-used-by-labours-chris-hipkins-in-leaders-debate/E2HCS36HTBHBVEAJ4RYJLHUXKE/

Luxon/National – please take note. He’s running rings around you.
16 4
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September 28, 2023 3:28pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Agree. The probability of a National-ACT majority is falling by the day.
  
  If Chris Luxon had given the exact response that Winston gave, folk would be cheering from the rooftops. Also Luxon keeps saying that NZ First is a “last resort”. If NZ First is required, Winston is going to exact a very high price from National due to that insult.
  
  11 1
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  September 28, 2023 5:46pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Whoever the advisors are who are formulating the strategy for National and Act, they are bloody useless.
    
    1 0
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    September 29, 2023 2:13am
Swifty

If only Islam ran the world, the world would be a better place:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OJnhFWB5i4k

//
3 1
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September 28, 2023 4:00pm
- NothingLeft
  
  On current birthrate trends fundamentalist Islam will inherit the world. Ughh.
  
  3 0
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  September 28, 2023 7:01pm
Keith White

Winston’s re-rise is indeed re-proof of the statistical proposition that half of everybody is dumber than average.
15 3
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September 28, 2023 4:12pm
- greybeard
  
  Winston’s MEDIA-MANIPULATED “re-rise” you mean.
  
  4 0
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  September 28, 2023 6:39pm
- miltonF
  
  I thought we experienced the proof last election.
  
  You know, when half of voters went with labour.
  
  A lot of people on this blog voted for labour to “keep the greens out”. Can’t get much more ludicrous than that.
  
  0 0
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  September 29, 2023 7:33pm
Fisiani2

Give your electorate vote to the person best suited as the Wellington MP
https://www.facebook.com/karorires/videos/636082355303343
5 0
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September 28, 2023 4:29pm
Ghost

An honest exchange

“It was my trans partner’s first appointment. He refused to see her, his secretary threw us away coldly. I advise against [visiting]. Never again.”

““SIR, I am a gynecologist, and I take care of real women. I have no skills to take care of MEN, even if they have shaved their beards and come to tell my secretary that they [have] become women. My GYNECOLOGICAL examination table is not suitable for examining men. You have specialized and very competent services to take care of men like you. Thank you for informing TRANS people to never come for consultation with me.”

“We denounce the #transphobes and discriminatory remarks of gynecologist Victor Acharian in Pau. #transphobia is a reality with serious consequences, particularly in access to health. It affects the entire territory.”

Article
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September 28, 2023 4:31pm
- Taieri
  
  We denounce the #transphobes and discriminatory remarks of gynecologist Victor Acharian in Pau.
  ————
  
  Hopefully, the relevant authorities will react, as this horrible, transphobic, white-supremacist, racist and genocidal person should never be allowed to practice medicine again. Hopefully, the relevant authorities will react. There’s no place for this sort of hate in the contemporary society.
  
  2 0
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  September 28, 2023 6:18pm
- Keith White
  
  Whisky Tango Foxtrot?!!!
  
  Upticking Ghost because, we need to know this sheeeit.
  
  6 0
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  September 28, 2023 7:42pm
kevn

Ghost… Maybe she/he went for a prostate exam?
5 0
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September 28, 2023 4:41pm
- Ghost
  
  Perhaps the good doctor should hire this Cat
  
  1 0
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  September 28, 2023 6:51pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Expert.
X = the unknown quantity. Spurt is a drip under pressure.
Where the hell do these people come from?
An economist is warning New Zealand’s unemployment rate needs to jump to ‘rebalance’ the labour market.

“New Zealand’s unemployment rate is currently sitting at 3.6 percent but last year it dropped 3.2 percent – the lowest it has been since 1986.” That would be 37 years ago.
He does not include the increased number of State Sector employees, which I believe has doubled in 6 years.
I give up! Paying more to unemployed (and un-employable) just encourages more to not bother working.
Fuck!

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/expert-says-unemployment-rate-needs-to-jump-to-rebalance-economy/ar-AA1hmKrn
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September 28, 2023 4:44pm
Maggie Pie

The HORRID has just published……(paywalled)
“Ten Things Christopher Luxon Should Know About Winston Peters”

My fave is #3:

‘Has an interest in soft-furnishings’

He famously once asked Sir John Key during QT….
“If his carpets matched the drapes?” when referring to JK’s dyed hair.
He wont be asking Luxon the same question.

LOL!!
12 2
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September 28, 2023 5:20pm
Ghost

Fight fight fight

Winston Peters confronted by woman at meeting, NZ First leader tells her to ‘sit down’
5 2
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September 28, 2023 6:05pm
Maggie Pie

Labor MP Willow Jean-Prime labels audience ‘RACIST’ for calling out “New Zealand!” ….when she referred to the country as “Aotearoa”.

That’s the sort of sh!t we’re facing these days 🙁
24 0
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September 28, 2023 6:07pm
- kevn
  
  Maggie… The laugh is of course, the fact that Governer George Grey coined the (made up) word way back then.
  
  10 0
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  September 28, 2023 6:29pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I actually quite admired Norma-Jean when she was in Opposition….
    then when Peters annoited ARDERN as Prime Minisrer they all got to f-ing nig for their boots 🙁
    
    8 0
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    September 28, 2023 6:49pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      ‘big…..’
      
      3 0
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      September 28, 2023 7:01pm
    - Damocles11
      
      “Goodbye Norma Jean, though I never…knew you at all”.
      
      4 0
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      September 28, 2023 7:20pm
- Sparrow
  
  I realise I am going to get loads of downticks but frankly I don’t understand the obvious hatred in some quarter’s of the use of Aotearoa
  Te reo became an official New Zealand language in 1987. I have checked my old passports and my 1995 issued passport contained Te reo my 1985 did not. Te reo might have been in NZ passport’s prior to 1995. My 2011 issued passport has Aotearoa on the front cover below New Zealand again this could have appeared prior to 2011. So for at least the last 12 years Aotearoa has been on our passports.
  Frankly I could not care less what name is used or the uncertain history behind the name Aotearoa. Lets be proud of both names and languages and their cultures. We have far more important issues in this country to worry about.
  
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  September 28, 2023 8:19pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Have your requested downtick
    
    3 0
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    September 28, 2023 9:50pm
Prince

Honestly, Stuff and Tova O’Brien have no shame.
‘Support for Windfall Taxes and Capital Gains’ they trumpet.
Most people support new taxes they proclaim.
Then you reach the fifth paragraph, and discover this is based on a survey of 1,000 people run by the Council of Trade Unions and Oxfam !
No wonder people mistrust the media.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300979367/new-survey-shows-widespread-support-for-taxes-on-capital-gains-and-windfall-profits
12 0
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September 28, 2023 7:14pm
- Damocles11
  
  What a disgrace. And of course many people will have no issue with somebody else’s money being taken from them….just as long as it isn’t theirs. Envy taxes don’t work & will only lead to a flight of capital out of this country.
  
  10 0
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  September 28, 2023 7:49pm
  - Keith White
    
    Yes indeed.
    
    As Thomas Sowell sez: “Since this is an era when many people are concerned about ‘fairness’ and ‘social justice,’ what is your ‘fair share’ of what someone else has worked for?”
    
    ‘They’ never have a straight answer.
    
    9 0
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    September 28, 2023 8:15pm
- Dougal10
  
  You can’t put honest and tova in the same sentence.
  
  7 0
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  September 28, 2023 8:40pm
Maggie Pie

Just watched…. ‘Bondi Rescue’.
One of the lifeguards was saying 80% of the people they have to rescue are ASIAN tourists!

Same thing at Piha apparently. SHEESH!!
5 1
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September 28, 2023 8:11pm
- Keith White
  
  Well as the saying goes, when you’ve rescued a Chinese person, you want to rescue another an hour later.
  
  5 1
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  September 28, 2023 8:24pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Confucious say…Bikini thong not best thing for swimming, but next to it 😛
    
    4 0
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    September 28, 2023 9:10pm
  - Damocles11
    
    Sometimes it’s the same person…they just go straight back in.
    
    2 0
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    September 28, 2023 10:43pm
Keith White

Maggie P: we should denounce ourselves for wrongthink.

Or, you know, not. 🙂
3 1
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September 28, 2023 9:31pm
Ghost

Bloody hell

A young man who used to be in the care of an Oranga Tamariki youth justice facility claims he made a deal with staff allowing them to beat him up in return for chocolate.

It comes after a wide-ranging review resulted in 28 staff complaints referred to police, on top of disturbing footage last month that showed staff facilitating fights between young men in state care.

Article
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September 28, 2023 9:41pm

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