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September 25, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 25 September 2023

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General Debate

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NeverMindTheBollocks

GWRC claim that expensive new trains will quadruple the current once-per-day trip between Wellington and PN. It’s not clear why this could be done now.

Unanswered is whether people want to travel to & from Palmerston in the middle of the day.

Also uncertain is why GWRC is funding this service, since its remit ceases beyond the Kapiti Coast.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/09/hybrid-trains-that-can-run-on-batteries-on-the-way-for-lower-north-island.html
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September 25, 2023 8:03am
- nathie
  
  According to GWRC “These are the first hybrid trains probably in the Southern Hemisphere”. Because then we have no direct experience of these hybrid trains can GWRC tell us a bit more about the batteries being used and their safety systems?
  
  For example do we need to be concerned if there is a battery fire? In an tunnel? Do the trains have fire suppression systems etc?
  
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  September 25, 2023 11:03am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Every diesel-electric locomotive in the world is already a hybrid train. Just sayin!
    
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    September 25, 2023 11:56am
    - nathie
      
      Ah thanx, good to know (mind you still, trains do have a habit of coming off the tracks, for whatever multiple reasons)! 🙃
      
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      September 25, 2023 12:19pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Light gauge rail. Train in Alaska is unreal!
        
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        September 25, 2023 12:43pm
    - cmm
      
      Diesel electrics are not really hybrids. Hybrids have batteries. Diesel electrics don’t.
      
      DEs are basically a huge diesel generator coupled to an electric motor. This gives huge torque without stalling. Rather than having a mechanical clutch they use power electronics instead.
      
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      September 25, 2023 12:44pm
- wsk12345
  
  As with everything these days, nobody actually defines the problem they are trying to solve.
  
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  September 25, 2023 11:26am
  - cmm
    
    More to the point: nor are they actually trying to solve the problem.
    
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    September 25, 2023 12:45pm
  - artemisia
    
    Too dangerous to define problems. Because then folk might realise the correct solutions came first and very cleverly delivered the matching problems. Root cause analysis, publicly explained, is the answer. It’s a formal process but how often does it happen?
    
    Ministers and anyone reviewing proposed solutions need to understand root causes and ask the question every single time. Otherwise how do they know if they are wasting our money by solving the wrong problem.
    
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    September 25, 2023 1:58pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    An interesting alternative take on an alternative to engineers attempting to solve train problems.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXneozZwJR0
    
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    September 25, 2023 4:16pm
    - artemisia
      
      Great idea, Te Huia train subsidies no longer needed as patronage would increase 10 fold and a profit would be turned.
      
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      September 25, 2023 7:04pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Pretty obvious strategy really, throw enough stupid shit against the wall, and dare the Nats to cancel it all and take the blame.
  
  Last time this train was looked at, we could have bought every passenger a new Corolla, cancelled the service and save a fortune.
  
  So an expensive inefficient white elephant, best we have more of them!
  
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  September 25, 2023 11:55am
- Apteryx
  
  Interesting timing for the announcement. The central government funding for this was announced in April: https://www.gw.govt.nz/your-region/news/funding-for-new-passenger-trains-celebrated-by-greater-wellington-and-horizons/
  
  It seems that what prompted the latest announcement is that GWRC has selected a procurement partner, WSP: https://www.metlink.org.nz/news-and-updates/news/wheels-of-change-firmly-on-track-as-procurement-partner-announced-for-wellington-and-horizons-hybrid-trains/
  
  It’s not really clear what a ‘procurement partner’ is. WSP is a Canadian consulting firm that bought Opus in New Zealand (which was spun out of the Ministry of Works). I don’t think it makes trains, but might be giving advice to GWRC about where the trains might be purchased. (RNZ’s article says that GWRC will be buying the trains from WSP.)
  
  Note that the GWRC business case was for 22 four-car units. This was said to be required to double peak services on the Wairarapa line and quadruple peak services on the Manawatu line. Not sure how a fleet almost 20% smaller will provide the same frequency; maybe they’ll just drive faster!
  https://www.gw.govt.nz/assets/Documents/2022/05/Redacted-LNIRIM_DBC_V1_20211101_Council-Approved_Redacted.pdf
  
  And of course the trains won’t run fully on battery when they’re not on the electrified portions of track. They will run partly on battery power and also use an internal combustion engine to charge the batteries and directly power the units.
  
  The spin refers to the trains as ‘hybrid-electric’ or ‘tri-mode’, without saying what the third mode (after mains power and battery) is. The business case calls it ‘compression-ignition’ engine. In plain language that’s diesel. Yes, dirty diesel.
  
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  September 25, 2023 12:40pm
- cmm
  
  Ummm, if it is a great idea then it doesn’t need subsidies.
  
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  September 25, 2023 2:59pm
- alphabeatrium
  
  I have caught that train — when travelling alone and the schedule allows for it without much issue. As soon as you have a party of two or more, it’s wildly uneconomical.
  
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  September 26, 2023 9:44pm
artemisia

New Zealand is a small country at the bottom of the world and not in great economic shape. That would be a world we are pretty good at feeding. So what happens when we power ahead to Net Zero and find we can feed less of the world plus have to pay billions to other countries. I get in an election campaign the various players have to play the climate change game.

But meanwhile, there is the headline on the eugyppius substack –

First the United Kingdom, now Sweden: As the European economy falters, Net Zero plans are retooled from hard deadlines to moving walls of future utopian aspiration
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September 25, 2023 8:03am
- ClanMcleod
  
  From that blog post by the always excellent Eugyppius.
  
  https://www.eugyppius.com/p/first-the-united-kingdom-now-sweden
  
  Despite their total lock on opinion among international institutions and the ruling elite, their oceans of funding and their cultural ascendancy, the climateers are in trouble. The appeal of not deindustrialising and not living in a world of unreliable expensive electricity, with very few automobiles, overcrowded trains and under-heated houses, is just too great.
  
  This doesn’t mean the future is all pretzels and beer. I think the most likely medium-term scenario, is one in which energy transition failures lead to the rise of sane governments, which restore some modicum of reasonable energy policy, only for improving conditions to restore the appeal of ascetic environmental proposals, starting the process all over again. Thus net zero aspirations will rise and fall in rhythm with national electoral cycles.
  
  This last sentence is the worry. People like Luxon prefer to bow down to this ideological lunacy for political expediency, rather than call it out for the completely nonsensical scam that it is.
  
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  September 25, 2023 11:09am
  - mawm
    
    Clan – you have got it wrong with regard to Luxon. He’s a true believer.
    
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    September 25, 2023 11:22am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      mawm – I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. If he genuinely believes this nonsense then the country is in deep trouble.
      
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      September 25, 2023 11:31am
      - cmm
        
        He might not believe it behind closed doors, but his public persona gobbles it up.
        
        The only hope here are that as these other countries break ranks it gives NZ “permission” to do so too.
        
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        September 25, 2023 11:36am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Playing the game just like the others.
        Try and get something out of Hipkins.
        
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        September 25, 2023 12:47pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        cmm – fair assessment I reckon. I’m hoping it’s the same with their covid silence. That they’re going to address it if they get into power.
        
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        September 25, 2023 12:47pm
      - rockape
        
        He has pushed the deadline back far enough for the whole poised scheme to fall apart before he needs to do much.
        
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        September 25, 2023 3:22pm
      - Drone
        
        Clan, it’s hard to be sure what exactly a politician believes in his/her heart. But you can be sure that if Luxon gets out of step with popular belief about Climate Change he will bring the wolves down on the National Party, every newspaper, blog, activist, opposition politician, world authority, and even Dame Jacinda. It’s not currently worth the pain. Maybe when the MSM have asked Labour where the money is coming from and have published the answer he may say something but I doubt it..
        
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        September 25, 2023 4:05pm
      - AitchW
        
        I suspect that once National gets its feet under the table and they see the state of the books Luxon will may have a road to Damascus moment and wind back the climate crap.
        
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        September 25, 2023 7:56pm
    - Mark Hanley
      
      MAWN. Is the Uber intelligent Luxon a true believer or a pragmatic operator who knows berating and belittling anthropagenic climate disaster believers (a large portion of whom make up our despicable unintelligent NZ media) will not help him get more votes?
      
      Luxon has positioned his 2 minor coaltion partners well with Seymour advocating a TOW referendum and Peter’s advocating a covid inquiry. If National mentioned either of these 2 policies the media frenzy would be unbearable and damaging.
      
      Personally I think anyone voting Peter’s has a very short memory or is a masochist!
      
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      September 25, 2023 1:51pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Seymour still fully supports the covid jabs and totally denies the proven very large increase in all cause mortality in NZ.
        
        He’s either very stupid or he’s a liar. I don’t think he’s stupid.
        
        If it’s a choice between two liars, I’ll go with the one who’s saying the right things rather than the one who’s still promoting lies!
        
        I think I understand re Luxon staying out of the mud.
        
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        September 25, 2023 2:33pm
      - mawm
        
        Mark – Is Luxon being dishonest with the electorate?
        
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        September 25, 2023 5:20pm
- Matt Long
  
  Willis says carbon price will increase under National and Labour. Meanwhile two thirds of respondents say they do not want to pay more for petrol to fund zero carbon.
  https://twitter.com/2ETEKA/status/1705846906839314453
  
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  September 25, 2023 11:34am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “Meanwhile two thirds of respondents say they do not want to pay more for petrol to fund zero carbon.”
    
    Just shows the ignorance of people on “net zero”. How do they think that there will be significant falls in emissions without (much) higher petrol prices? Will magic unicorns reduce emissions?
    
    As I keep saying, you think petrol prices are high now, you aint seen nothing yet. “Net zero” means pricing many people out of private transport. The Climate Change Commission admits that. So do the Greens. Chris Luxon – smiles and waves.
    
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    September 25, 2023 11:39am
    - Matt Long
      
      That’s how unscrupulous politicians get their agendas passed, they kept the consequences of their policies carefully hidden until it is too late to change or the damage is already done.
      
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      September 25, 2023 12:16pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Like the one who walked away without any responsibility?
        
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        September 25, 2023 12:39pm
  - Paw Prick
    
    FYI
    Carbon prices are at a crossroad
    The worst government ever has just imposed an extra annual tax of $30 per hectare on Carbon credit producers. Plus a large number of additional charges
    Believe it
    
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    September 25, 2023 12:37pm
    - Gravelroad
      
      Hey Paw Prick – long time no see!
      Where you been?
      Plenty more new taxes coming along soon if Labour get back in.
      Don’t think they are “in it for you” Paw.
      More like they are in it for what they can gouge out of you
      
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      September 25, 2023 1:11pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  “I get in an election campaign the various players have to play the climate change game.”
  
  I don’t get it at all. One minute you’re saying yes they have to play the game, the next minute you’re nodding your head sagely when some idiot says the cryptosporidium outbreak in Queenstown is caused by Climate Change (™).
  
  It’s not so much a game as a massive scam, and there’s no rule that says you have to play along.
  
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  September 25, 2023 3:00pm
Captain Mainwaring

So Labour is promising continuing pollution of our suburbs with social housing.
What’s better, having a strong enough economy in which people can aspire to own their own homes, or a nation of State tenants who will vote Labour forever?
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September 25, 2023 8:04am
- Im Right
  
  Ahhh but Captain, they can’t be arsed voting, this is the crux of the lefts problem, create a whole swath of ‘dependent on the state’ voters that don’t get out and vote for them.
  
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  September 25, 2023 8:12am
  - Sacha
    
    They can’t be arsed working either. If they could, we wouldn’t need so many immigrants.
    The immigrants work, & pay taxes, so that the natives who can’t be arsed get given an unearned income with no time limit.
    It’s high time that we demand that the govt start hardening up its expectations of the ‘can’t be arsed’ bludgers.
    Since when did it become a ‘right’ that someone could live out their life by take, take, taking without contributing?
    
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    September 25, 2023 11:32am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Good.
    
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    September 25, 2023 12:49pm
- Scott
  
  Capt – I don’t mind the provision of state housing. Where I grew up in New Plymouth our street was entirely state houses, sturdy three-bedroom structures that are still there today.
  
  The problem, and no one seems to mention this, is the rapid increase of our population due to immigration. In approximately the last 20 years we have gone from 3.8 million people to 5 million people, entirely through mass immigration. National is promising more immigration!
  
  Here in Masterton we have gone from 20,000 people to 25,000 people. That’s okay for us because we are a small town. But even here we have homeless people and many people not being able to afford to buy a home and rental prices are very high.
  
  But in Auckland the place is jampacked. The same in Wellington. My eldest son couldn’t afford to buy a house in Wellington and so moved to Palmerston North to find an affordable first home. I think we should really push back on mass immigration. Yes, people with the skills that we absolutely need, that’s fine. But to import another million people in the next 20 years is madness. It is a sugar rush to the economy, but it means that the New Zealand dream of owning your own home becomes unaffordable.
  
  That’s where we have a uni party. Both labour and national appear to be addicted to mass immigration to fund our out-of-control government spending and make our books look better. Let’s make sure that New Zealanders can afford to rent and buy a house before we invite in a million more foreigners.
  
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  September 25, 2023 8:13am
  - mawm
    
    The politicians like to point out how the GDP grows with mass immigration. What they hide from us is the GDP per capita. It tells a different story.
    
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    September 25, 2023 11:26am
    - cmm
      
      GDP really means little because it doesn’t even measure what it says on the tine: productivity.
      
      It measures all economic activity: both production and consumption.
      
      When you’re hosing money all over the place then it is no surprise that consumption based GDP goes up. But it is all debt fueled, so nothing to really be happy about.
      
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      September 25, 2023 11:39am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Labour are no good with numbers anyway.
      
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      September 25, 2023 12:54pm
      - Colville
        
        3 out of 2 people cant do maths.
        
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        September 25, 2023 1:06pm
      - goNZ1
        
        same as maths teachers – but very cool on te reo
        
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        September 25, 2023 4:12pm
  - artemisia
    
    Sturdy 3 bedroom state houses – yes, for families back in the day. But no longer. Half of the massive waiting list is households with no children, almost all of those single and working age. (Why?) So now looking at medium to high density of 1 bedroom flats. There goes the neighbourhood.
    
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    September 25, 2023 11:29am
    - stiff cheese
      
      I can take a fifteen minute stroll around my suburb and pass 5 new developments of a dozen or more townhouses crammed onto a space where 2 to 4 houses used to be. This is what our young people have to settle for, now. Forget about having a front yard and back yard for kids to run around; forget about your own fruit tree, your own vege garden; forget about a garage: “Just park on the street, bro!”. In other words, forget about what previous generations could easily achieve — a 3 bedroom house on a quarter acre section with your own front yard and back yard.
      
      No wonder we have a crashing birth rate.
      Key promised to make housing more affordable but achieved diddly squat. Ardern’s Labour government — needless to say — improved nothing.
      
      Both parties are culpable for making housing affordability WORSE! . . That’s a 20 year history with no signs of stopping. House price inflation really took off in 2002 (i.e. under Clark’s Labour government) — the same year Alan Bollard took over at the Reserve Bank — and incomes haven’t kept up.
      
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      September 25, 2023 1:46pm
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        You have to be over 75 to have bought a new house on a quarter acre section as a young family. For at least 30 years the typical section size has been around 500 metres.
        Mind you that is lot better than the tiny units being built today on 250 meters or less. Typically with a 1 car garage, as if families owned only one car. An illusion of city planners. As far I can see just about everyone over 18 owns their own car. And our streets are choka with cars parked. None of which I expect a change of government to fix.
        
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        September 25, 2023 4:15pm
  - Taieri
    
    The problem, and no one seems to mention this, is the rapid increase of our population due to immigration.
    ———
    
    It’s not just the housing. The whole infrastructure is collapsing, which is only to be expected as it was never designed for the current population levels. The joyful creativity of the successive government never concerned itself with the fact that all immigrants have to be housed, educated and treated by GP’s and in hospitals. There’s not a slightest interest in providing new utilities such as water and sewerage, improved roads and so on. There wasn’t and there still isn’t. We hear lots of platitudes and lots of promises, but I’m yet to see a political leader who is brave enough to say it publicly. But, then again. perhaps I expect too much from all those empty suits and empty heads…
    
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    September 25, 2023 11:32am
  - Local Miller
    
    “The problem, and no one seems to mention this, is the rapid increase of our population due to immigration”
    Not really. Stats show that our net migration has been below 5 per 1000 population most of the years since 1950. Some years went to 5-7, but then some years were below 5, and between 1976 – 1988 we went negative, as low as -5/1000.
    At a rough estimate our average net migration is much closer to 20,000 per year or 400,000 per 20 years, no where near the scary one million your using Scott. So while immigration contributes 40% to the growth there’s 60% local production.
    But keep in mind that immigration would drop to a trickle if NZ were producing the skilled human resources it needs. I came here 17+ years ago as a DBA because ASB Bank couldn’t find DBAs with my level of skill. At the same time ASB brought in another DBA from England.
    If NZ worked at getting all the bludgers (and to everyone is a bludger) off the benefit, and up skilled them to fill some of the jobs being filled by immigrants, most of these problems would go away.
    Here’s a novel idea, if you want a benefit other than a Dr certified sickness/disability one, you need to:
    1) Be drug free or on a drug rehabilitation program, accepting that mental health may be a factor.
    AND/OR
    2) Actively applying for work with recognised companies and in the range of your skill set.
    AND/OR
    3) Take an “aptitude test” to determine what work you are suited to and “appeals” to you, then go into education to upskill to an employable level.
    If you aren’t satisfying all 3 of these your benefit is cut, or the amount you get is dependent on the level to which you meet these (possibly plus other) requirements.
    
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    September 25, 2023 12:24pm
    - Scott
      
      Year 2000 – New Zealand population 3.858 million.
      Year 2020 – New Zealand population 5.09 million.
      Just google it.
      
      That’s the problem right there. We have grown by over a million people in 20 years without considering housing and infrastructure and everything else that a million people need.
      
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      September 25, 2023 1:21pm
      - Local Miller
        
        @Scott, I did Google it, I’m not disputing the numbers, it’s the immigrants mantra I’m correcting. Here’s what you said:
        “In approximately the last 20 years we have gone from 3.8 million people to 5 million people, entirely through mass immigration”.
        No, only about 40% was immigration, the rest was natural growth.
        
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        September 25, 2023 2:42pm
      - Colville
        
        LM
        100,000 net migration in the last year.
        Labour figures.
        
        That is 40,000 houses we dont have.
        
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        September 25, 2023 8:25pm
- Opie
  
  The economy is already stronger than the ability of many people, that’s why there are kiwis sitting at home on government handouts while we import low skill immigrants.
  
  We complain about these low skill immigrants but at least they work. Someone needs to make the subway sandwiches for the elite.
  
  In the weekend I saw an Indian running the pub in Reporoa. Sounds like a recipe for disaster but maybe the injection of immigrants will save our small rural towns? You just might not recognise or like what it looks like. It certainly won’t resemble the good new Zealand we remember
  
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  September 25, 2023 8:15am
  - cmm
    
    “It certainly won’t resemble the good new Zealand we remember”
    
    If that “good old” NZ gave us a generation of dole bludgers then I welcome productive immigrants.
    
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    September 25, 2023 11:41am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Yes Opie,
    
    NZ has turned into a low energy state.
    
    Instead of combining to aspire we are conspiring to recline.
    
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    September 25, 2023 11:42am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Anyone who does not like their job can move on.
    50 years at the same Company says a lot. I loved it. My
    
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    September 25, 2023 12:59pm
- G152
  
  The promised housing is well below the 100000 promised before the last election.
  Do you think they may have employed a National member as advisor ???????
  
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  September 25, 2023 8:16am
- artemisia
  
  Social housing waiting list exploded under Labour. Is anyone asking why? And in particular how much of the waiting list is due to new Labour rules that lead to higher rents, much more aggressive risk management by landlords and sharply increased immigration. These sets of rules are intertwined and inevitably lead to landlords declining applicants with even a tiny hint of risk. Because avoiding is their main recourse these days.
  
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  September 25, 2023 8:20am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Own your own home and more Taxes come.
  
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  September 25, 2023 10:04am
- Paulus
  
  What happened to Labour’s 100,000 houses as promised – now forgotten of course – or rather par for the course.
  
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  September 25, 2023 11:06am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Just remember ALL of the lies at the polling booth.
    
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    September 25, 2023 11:41am
- igm
  
  Captain, you know most Labour supporters do not have the initiative or drive to get a real job, so how can they be expected to work, save, and buy their own homes.
  Like leeches, they swarm around the easy way out, supporting deadbeats such as Ardern, Hipkins, Little, Sepuloni, Parker, Andersen, et al.
  
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  September 25, 2023 1:02pm
Warren

I am sick of hearing the media blaming National for the state of our economy with they under funded this and that bla bla bla. I am also sick of the media and Journalists asking is it fair on on things like tax cuts for beneficiaries as they are the ones that get very little from them.
Well I believe that until beneficiaries and I am not saying all stopped there own selfishness like purchasing a box of beer and packets of cigarettes before feeding their families might help also .
I am sick of the Government’s bullshit on how they have lifted thousands out of
Poverty and how they are there for the poor without holding them to account for the bad decisions they make.
Life would be fairer all round if we had money trees for our debt, but we haven’t so until you educate people to change there ways we will have people that think of themselves first and families later.
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September 25, 2023 8:05am
- Graham Sharpe
  
  I agree Warren. But what the commenteriate class always omits in its thinking is this. Labour have been in Government for 15 of the last 25 years – that is 60% of that time. So it’s a bit rich to call National out for “neglect” when they have been running the show for most of the time. Further, they have been in Government for 23 of the last 50 years – that’s as near as dammit to 50%, so again. Labour have equal if not more responsibility for the current mess in anything (health and education in particular).
  
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  September 25, 2023 11:23am
  - wsk12345
    
    Yeah but they probably say “ we’ve done 80% of the spending so the Nats haven’t produced as much”.
    
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    September 25, 2023 2:47pm
- igm
  
  When are MSM going to report on the Labour-supporting, taxpayer-funded hikoi on its way from up north to Wellington.
  Are they going to admit they support this “Rivers of Drug Dealing Unemployable Filth”?
  They shot the decent people concerned over the Pfizer Poison down in flames, they being employed, business owners, and decent people.
  Wake up New Zealand, at all costs, we want these leeches off the Treasury benches.
  
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  September 25, 2023 1:13pm
Benedict Yu

Great 🤬 Winston must be laughing like a drain.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300976862/live-national-expected-to-welcome-nz-first-to-the-coalition-party
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September 25, 2023 8:06am
- Colville
  
  Interesting situation.
  Will this drag Labour voters towards Winston as a foil for ACT?
  
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  September 25, 2023 8:13am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Lefty … ” vote NZFirst to keep National honest”.
    
    I think Labour are going to be destroyed this election now.
    
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    September 25, 2023 11:25am
  - Piniwi
    
    Perhaps but it will surely see growth in the ACT numbers as potential National voters opt for a safer bet in ACT. Especially after those diversity candidate selections dampening down the voter enthusiasm for that sort of change making it more like just a slide sideways. Think of the fun watching the Coalition of Chaos of Labour/Greens/TMP/NZ First as opposition with a total of 54 seats ay question time with a real Speaker restoring some of the dignity of the Chamber. Lol
    
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    September 25, 2023 11:34am
    - Colville
      
      I find it fascinating.
      The Nats will have had some smart people running numbers on it and it must come out as a win for them.
      Our host will obviously have a view (that he wont share!)
      I can see Labour voters going to NZF to soften the effect of ACT but also I can see National voters going to ACT to moderate the effects (if any) of NZF.
      It wont be good news for Labour tho…and that might be what swung National into making the call.
      Crush Labour…worry about Winston later?
      If Labours vote is circa 22%… Winston has no choice.
      
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      September 25, 2023 12:07pm
- Opie
  
  Can we now be referred to as a low wage, low productivity and low IQ country?
  
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  September 25, 2023 8:17am
  - Frank the tank
    
    We aren’t now?
    
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    September 25, 2023 11:37am
- Inandout
  
  BY, MMP (NZ version) to my mind is a laughable system and Winston fits in perfectly.
  
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  September 25, 2023 8:20am
- kevn
  
  winnie needs 5% first of all…
  
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  September 25, 2023 8:47am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    He’ll get 7%-8% while NACT refuse to talk about covid. 12% undecided, half of those will go to NZF unless somebody comes out with some form of mea culpa before voting starts.
    
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    September 25, 2023 9:05am
    - Damocles11
      
      I guess you can only speak for yourself. Dunno how you can say that about 6% of the electorate are waiting for somebody to say something ‘about covid’. I know people who are tossing up between National and ACT, they are definitely not raving on about ‘covid’.
      Are you the bloke who said you voted for Labour for 4 decades? If you are, why on earth did you do that?
      
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      September 25, 2023 9:31am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Damocles11 – because I grew up in council estates in the UK where all of the men I knew either worked in a shipyard, had a trade or worked as labourers.
        It was an era when the Labour Party actually represented the genuine working classes.
        
        I moved to NZ in 1991 and have voted for all of the main parties at various times and for various reasons.
        I watched in horror as the globalist monster, Tony Blair totally destroyed the UK Labour Party. Just like the globalist monster Jacinda Ardern has destroyed the NZ Labour Party.
        
        Hopefully that answers your question.
        
        Re the 12% undecided, I’m guessing at 6%, that’s my opinion which I believe is what forums like this are all about.
        
        You appear to be moving in different circles to me. Maybe you’re part of the laptop set who were barely affected by the nightmarish covid policies?
        
        We’ll find out come election time and it will be what it will be.
        
        All I can do is comment honestly which is what I always try and do.
        
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        September 25, 2023 11:38am
      - cmm
        
        “I know people who are tossing up between National and ACT, they are definitely not raving on about ‘covid’.”
        
        Sure, but none of them are voting for NZF and none of them feel immesely wronged by the whole covid thing.
        
        Much of the NZF support comes from those that feel wronged. Sufficiently so that they will not vote for National or Act.
        
        An acknowledgement by National or Act that the non-jabbers were wronged (and maybe an apology to go with it) would immediately take half of NZF votes away.
        
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        September 25, 2023 11:46am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        cmm – speaking for my wife and I personally, no apology needed from NACT unless there is something we don’t know about that they were complicit in?
        
        I posted yesterday with the evidence that the government were repeatedly advised by Medsafe and CV TAG, that there were issues with these jabs and there were many unknowns. At no point did they advise that this crap was ‘safe and effective’. But that was the message sold to the country.
        
        Were NACT privy to this information and agreed not to oppose the Labour policies? If they didn’t know this at the time, they certainly should by now.
        This is why the only reason I can see for them not calling the Labour coalition out for this malfeasance is, they are implicated somehow.
        This information is the sledgehammer that could completely destroy Labour for a decade at least.
        It’s weird.
        
        Anyway, An acknowledgment and commitment to hold a proper inquiry into what was done would be great, along with a promise that such policies like lockdown’s mandates etc would never be considered again.
        
        The failure to do this is weird.
        
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        September 25, 2023 12:57pm
      - cmm
        
        Clan: While Seymore did not stand up for the people at the Beehive ( a failing in my eyes), he most certainly did speak out against some of the excesses of the government during that period.
        
        However, the media were only giving him the smallest of platforms.
        
        Even politicians are not all given all the information they need. They probably got more than we did, but not all of it.
        
        At the end of the day, we place out trust in authority figures hundreds of times a day:
        * Plug in the kettle and we assume the power is 240V. We trust the power company. We don’t pull out our multimeters and check.
        * Fill up the car with petrol. We trust that the petrol is the right stuff and is what it says on the pump.
        * Put money in the bank and we assume that they won’t scuttle off with it.
        * Go the the GP or lawyer and you trust they are serving your best interests.
        
        And when health officials provide information during a pandemic we trust they will tell us the truth.
        
        Few are in a position to check their power daily, or their water, petrol etc. So we trust.
        
        So when that trust is broken it takes a lot to fix.
        
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        September 25, 2023 3:09pm
      - goNZ1
        
        the world has moved on from covid Clan – give it a rest mate,theres bigger fish to fry!
        
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        September 25, 2023 4:17pm
    - Ghost
      
      Around 8% is where I expect Winston will get around 13% for act.
      
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      September 25, 2023 11:19am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Sadly, I think you are right – it will annihilate Labour though. Left wing tactical voters can now safely vote NZ First!
      
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      September 25, 2023 12:00pm
      - Damocles11
        
        A bit like farmers voting for Labour in 2020 to reduce the leverage of the Greens over Labour. If Labour are destroyed at this election I will be jubilant; ideally they will get under 20%.
        
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        September 25, 2023 12:39pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    kevn – 12% undecided.
    
    Half of those will be like me, waiting as long as possible to see who is going to speak for them, people who’s lives were upended by the abusive policies of the last 3 years. Like it or not, there are tens of thousands (minimum) in the country for who this is a critical issue.
    
    Ignoring them or telling them to stfu and just vote for NACT isn’t very persuasive.
    
    Peters is the only politician – (with a chance of getting into parliament)- to speak up so far.
    He’s also the most vocal on the racism being railroaded into our country. He’s also calling out the Maori Party for signing us up to more UN Sustainable Development Goal garbage.
    
    The only way to remove him from the equation is to cancel out his strongest weapons.
    
    Pretending covid didn’t happen is the biggest political failure I’ve witnessed in very many years.
    
    Downtick away, it’s 100% accurate observation, but I understand people don’t like it.
    
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    September 25, 2023 9:22am
    - RoboRob
      
      Ive seen it asked before but don’t think you answered Clan. Are you a member of NZF?
      
      FYI I am not a member of any political party.
      
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      September 25, 2023 9:34am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        RoboRob – I can 100% guarantee I am not a member of ANY political party. I’ll vote for whoever I think has the best chance of addressing the things that concern me most.
        
        Just like most people I presume. I certainly hope not everyone is fanatically tribal, as many on the blog appear to be.
        
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        September 25, 2023 11:12am
    - Guy Preston
      
      The problem with Winston 1st is that past behaviour is the best predictor of future behaviour, and that tells us everything that comes out his mouth before an election is worth absolutely nothing.
      
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      September 25, 2023 10:12am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Guy Preston – I’ve said it before. Who in parliament doesn’t have baggage? I’ve said all I have to re Luxon and Seymour.
        
        5 weeks ago I was around 80% sure I was going to give my party vote to Act. Then I saw an email from Seymour denying the jabs did any harm and then I saw Seymour publicly lie and deny there was any excess all cause mortality in NZ.
        
        That left me with National as the best use of my vote to help crush Labour. The harder I looked at Luxon, the less appeal I could find. He looks like a reasonable mid level manager.
        But his admonishing of Maureen Pugh and stating they were going to ‘re-educate’ her horrified me.
        
        As does his apparent total adherence to all things about net zero.
        
        I doubt there is any chance of Peters going with Labour, no matter what.
        
        He is vain, this will almost certainly be his swansong. He knows whatever legacy he might have as the cheeky chap with the twinkle in the eye would be destroyed. He would be forever vilified by all and sundry, and rightly so.
        
        I’m still undecided about where my vote will go. I would prefer that one of the main centre right parties had been a bit braver and at least acknowledged that the last few years have been a nightmare for many people.
        
        NZ Loyal are saying the right things, but they look unlikely to get into parliament, also their mistake that leaves them with only 2 mps even if they hit the threshold, is damaging to them.
        
        That only leaves Peters. I don’t like it any more than you do.
        
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        September 25, 2023 11:50am
      - Guy Preston
        
        @Clan,
        I feel your pain, but I’ll leave this for you to digest.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog
        
        Winston is not your saviour, whatever the silver tonged old bastard says between now and the 14th.
        
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        September 25, 2023 12:00pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        With Winston, you need to apply the age factor. When he was younger he was a true loose Canon.
        
        But like many of us he seems to have mellowed a little bit………
        
        Still pushing Race and other hot buttons that the major parties dare not touch.
        
        Remember all Winston wants is 5% so 5% of disenfranchised, nutters, oldies wont be too much of a challenge.
        
        As much as most on KB are rapid anti Winnie. You cant deny he is a very crafty and skilled politician (re electioneering)
        
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        September 25, 2023 4:39pm
    - Paulus
      
      Probably the Undecideds in the polls will not bother to vote anyway.
      
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      September 25, 2023 11:08am
    - rouppe
      
      @Clan, your observations are 100% correct.
      
      Here are some more 100% correct observations:
      1. Winston Peters gave us Jacinda Ardern, which has led to the situation in which we find ourselves, including covid.
      2. He is accepting as candidates those who believe people now emit Bluetooth signals.
      
      I get that the covid thing is important to you. I have also changed my position. I’ll not touch another mRNA vaccine. I too believe Labour over-reached, and vilified.
      
      But that’s not the only thing to consider. I wouldn’t invite a child rapist into my home just because they changed the tyre for a little old woman, once.
      
      So while you like Winston because he “spoke up” about covid, I can’t because he gave us Jacinda.
      
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      September 25, 2023 11:24am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        rouppe – I understand totally.
        
        However your ‘child rapist’ analogy is as hysterical as it is nonsensical.
        
        We’re referring to Peter’s well known untrustworthiness. I’ve said it often, point me to one in the cess pit in Wellington who isn’t? Does that make them all ‘child rapists’ in your eye?
        
        I know he gave us Ardern. She’s gone now. I can only deal with the future.
        
        And I never once said I like Winston. I said he’s the only one speaking out about the worst abuses of human rights in a couple of generations at least.
        
        I haven’t even heard Luxon or Seymour speak a word to convince me that faced with another ‘pandemic’, they wouldn’t repeat the whole exercise.
        
        Only more ‘efficiently’ as they said often at the time. If you can reference anything they’ve said to the contrary please do so. I’m trying really hard to find an alternative to Peters. I really am.
        
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        September 25, 2023 11:56am
      - Miritu
        
        Rouppe, you make some good points, however, even as a long-time Act voter, I can never again support them. Covid & related issues dwarf all else and cannot be ignored. I’d sooner waste my vote than support those in parliament who lost their moral compass.
        
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        September 25, 2023 12:02pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        The most practical solution to managing the probable coalition is to appoint Winston as prime minister .
        
        The other two have valuable talents but they aren’t leadership material and are better off as functionaries.
        
        He is not a good follower, but then again , which leader is?
        
        Luxon and Seymour don’t inspire confidence and will end up trying to manage each other and the media rather than running the country.
        
        Winston has much more in common with kiwis and has the added benefit of not being an ideologue.
        He’s a pragmatist.
        
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        September 25, 2023 12:04pm
      - rouppe
        
        @clan & @miritu
        
        Thank you for your replies
        
        It really is going to be an interesting election, isn’t it?
        
        @imalwaysright
        That would be an interesting strategy, wouldn’t it? The fact is that the pm is just one vote in caucus, but they have to front the cameras.
        
        Winston pm, Luxon deputy pm, call Winston’s bluff!
        
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        September 25, 2023 12:51pm
      - 2ic
        
        @rouppe
        “1. Winston Peters gave us Jacinda Ardern, which has led to the situation in which we find ourselves, including covid.”
        That’s incorrect. It was the New Zealand public that gave Jacinda Ardern’s Labour government a majority in 2020 and voted NZ First out. NZ First haven’t even been in parliament for the last 3 years.
        
        “2. He is accepting as candidates those who believe people now emit Bluetooth signals.”
        Kirsten Murfitt shared a video on Twitter a couple of years ago from an anonymous account, which is not the same as what you are alleging. I haven’t looked into that one, but there are plenty of Covid ‘conspiracy theories’ that have come true. For example, it appears that the Pfizer vaccine is contaminated with DNA, which could alter the recipients DNA:
        https://youtu.be/IEWHhrHiiTY?t=207
        
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        September 25, 2023 1:03pm
      - rouppe
        
        [Mod – stop using this analogy]
        
        It’s another sign of the discourse that zeroing in on those two words meant the rest of my argument was ignored.
        
        Still not saying you’re wrong, clan, just that we view things differently.
        
        Go well. It’s only 3 weeks until we will truly know the consistency of the shit were going to have to deal with.
        
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        September 25, 2023 1:03pm
      - rouppe
        
        @2ic
        
        “1. Winston Peters gave us Jacinda Ardern, which has led to the situation in which we find ourselves, including covid.”
        
        That’s incorrect. It was the New Zealand public that gave Jacinda Ardern’s Labour government a majority in 2020 and voted NZ First out. NZ First haven’t even been in parliament for the last 3 years.
        
        I beg to differ. Winston have us Jacinda in 2017. That made her the pm when the first actions of border closure and the first lock downs occurred before the 2020 election.
        
        Being the incumbent pm made Labour a veritable shoe in for re election, the same as every other country that held an election then.
        
        The problems we have didn’t occur from the 2020 election, they started before then, but were turbo charged by the covid election of 2020.
        
        But it all started with Winston choosing Jacinda in 2017.
        
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        September 25, 2023 1:11pm
      - Ghost
        
        No, national having a weak leader and constant problems in the party’s gave us Jacinda in 2020. And the voters who decided to vote Winston to keep national honest gave us her in 2017. Which then followed in 202p with the equally stupid vote labour to keep greens out.
        
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        September 25, 2023 1:17pm
      - 2ic
        
        @rouppe
        “Winston have us Jacinda in 2017. That made her the pm when the first actions of border closure and the first lock downs occurred before the 2020 election.”
        That’s exactly my point. Most New Zealanders overwhelmingly supported the early Covid measures and returned Jacinda Ardern for a 2nd term with the strongest mandate you could possibly get under MMP – a majority. It wasn’t until 2021 we had the vaccines and mandates and it became clear that lockdowns were pointless. NZ First wasn’t in parliament then – but Act and National were.
        
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        September 25, 2023 4:45pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        Small correction.
        
        Winston gave us a labour Government for 3 years!
        The last 3 years of radical change was given to us by stupid NZ Voters.
        
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        September 25, 2023 5:20pm
    - Yabster
      
      vote for who you believe in and who has the best policy for NZ. Fact is Winnie has been caught out constantly- making up bs ie why he went with Liebour in 2017 (which caused the racist policies etc) because English was going to be rolled- English has called him out- its complete bollocks.
      
      No knowledge of He Puapua? – he was part of the cabinet committee who commissioned the report- he a bs artist.
      https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/graham-adams-should-you-trust-winston-peters
      
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      September 25, 2023 11:30am
      - Ra Henare
        
        The radical racial policies were put in place AFTER Winston was labours handbrake. Thanks to the 50%+ idiot voters being conned by Jacinda mania
        
        Just saying.
        
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        September 25, 2023 5:21pm
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      If you are undecided now, I think you need to get out more. Peters is a self-serving fraud and political terrorist.
      
      He will say whatever it takes to hoover up the votes of the confused and disaffected, and will then take the baubles and destabilise the government.
      
      This is who he is, this is how he rolls.
      
      Based on what evidence do you think he will change his behaviour?
      
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      September 25, 2023 12:03pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        “Peters is a self-serving fraud and political terrorist.”
        
        As opposed to Luxon who is an unadulterated ideological climate loon, who if he pursues net zero policies will destroy the way of life of almost everyone in the country. Except the privileged and wealthy like him.
        
        That sounds like political terrorism to me.
        
        As opposed to Seymour who is a blatant liar regarding all things relative to covid.
        
        Who publicly denies the facts, that there is a hugely concerning rise in all cause mortality in NZ, which correlates perfectly with the rollout of the experimental jabs.
        Who is aware (or should be aware) that, at no point did the NZ medical advisors state that the jabs were ‘safe and effective’, in fact the opposite. They repeatedly stated that there were many unknowns and there was no long term safety data.
        
        Sounds like political terrorism to me.
        
        Remind me again why one liar/fraudster is better than the other?
        
        I know, it’s getting boring. But other than repeatedly telling me Peters is untrustworthy, nobody can tell me why I should vote for the others, who are equally fraudulent and/or a liar.
        
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        September 25, 2023 1:12pm
    - Mrs_Right
      
      I doubt a big portion of those undecided actually end up voting on the day.
      
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      September 25, 2023 12:08pm
    - Local Miller
      
      I tend to agree, there are a lot of silent C-19 Jax objectors out there who feel seriously aggrieved, and will vote for a party or electorate MP who saw prepared to speak out about the way people were treated and how our BORA trampled on.
      Now add to this his comments about Climate Change, 0.04% CO2 and 3% of that from human activity, and there goes another swath of voters from NAT/ACT to NZF.
      I’ve voted variously for one of these 3 parties over the past 17 years, but I see Peters as a lose cannon, too unpredictable and as likely to harm his coalition partners as the opposition, so it’s very unlikely I’d ever vote for him, but on this and several other matters he’s talking the right language, and voters are going to follow.
      National and ACT ignore him and what he’s saying on C-19, Climate & Co-Governance at their peril.
      
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      September 25, 2023 12:47pm
    - sharont
      
      I’m unjabbed. I was discriminated against. Not allowed to sit down to eat in malls. Not allowed to go to church services. However, thinking Winston is going to do anything about it is pie in the sky. He promised to be the first into Pike River and we’re still waiting.
      
      Unfortunately, I think some people who are unvaxxed and were discriminated against may well get a Labour government re-elected by sticking to one issue, when there are so many other issues afflicting this country and the most important thing is to get rid of Labour. As a former New Zealand First voter who once believed his promises I have woken up. It was too late in 2017 when he gave us this dreadful government that I helped to elect through trusting Winston. Don’t be responsible for electing a Labour government again because, as Luxon said on the Farming Show this morning, it is quite possible that Winston will go with Labour. As for Winston doing anything about Covid. He never will. He’s all talk as we’ve seen over the years. He has nothing to lose this election. If Labour offer him Deputy Prime Minister do you think he will refuse the offer?
      
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      September 25, 2023 1:46pm
      - Ghost
        
        That is the mistake people make when they think Covid is a single issue
        
        Taking away people’s rights
        Segregation
        The destruction of the economy
        The destruction of the health sector
        The destruction of the education sector
        Denying people medical care
        Denying people entry into their country
        
        The issues from Covid are far more than a single issue and impact every part of this country.
        
        It won’t be the last time we see this happen either, because people were so accepting of it.
        
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        September 25, 2023 1:59pm
      - sharont
        
        Ghost, most of those things you list have happened under this Labour government anyway and were happening prior to Covid. Some unvaxxed are definitely voting on one issue that could very well see another Labour government put into power by Winston. Then what will they have achieved? A Labour government will do the same again and probably much worse. Get rid of Labour should be the overall goal and work on the new government.
        
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        September 25, 2023 2:19pm
      - Local Miller
        
        @sharont – You’re making the same mistake as a lot of people on this blog; seeing NZF too much from our more informed position. Most people on this blog have done their research and are aware of the problems with Peters, but out there 50% of the population have no real idea what really happened 6 years ago. A lot of those people do know they have been royally screwed over by Liebour (not Peters) and now neither NAT nor ACT are making any noises to sort this out, but Peters is.
        Who do you think these disenfranchised voters will turn to? If they think the NAT/ACT coalition is looking strong they will go to Peters to get their grievances addressed. This is why I believe NAT/ACT are doing the wrong thing not acknowledging the multiple elephants in the room and and rather than making blanket acceptance claims (Net Zero – thanks Luxon, No excess mortality – thanks Seymour, etc.) they should be telling the voters there will be a full, credible science based investigation into any policy, actions, the C-9 response, etc. to ensure future policy is based in independent science…
        
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        September 25, 2023 2:56pm
- Damocles11
  
  The headline is total spin. Luxon isn’t ‘welcoming’ Winston into anything, he said he’d pick up the phone if he absolutely has to. He recognises that the most important thing is that we cannot let a Labour / Green / Te Pati Maori government anywhere near the reins of power. If we let that radical Leftist group take control of our country then New Zealand is officially done, there will be a massive capital flight & a ‘brain’ and skills drain such as we’ve never ever seen before. Vote for a Left wing party or a party that would go into coalition with Labour only if you are a sadistic traitor who hates your country and wants to see it utterly destroyed.
  
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  September 25, 2023 9:14am
  - mawm
    
    Down ticked because I am really hard pressed to try and define National as either right wing or centrist. ACT is not right wing by most definitions even although the media continue to portray it as such.
    
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    September 25, 2023 11:36am
    - Local Miller
      
      The media call ACT right wing because they don’t understand what Libertarian means.
      
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      September 25, 2023 12:55pm
      - mawm
        
        To me the basic premise of Libertarianism is that we are all sovereign individuals and should be able to make our own choices.
        
        And the first time Seymour was tested on this he failed.
        
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        September 25, 2023 2:14pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    The Overton window moved left in NZ quite some time ago.
    
    National are dripping wet. They are barely even centre left never mind centre right.
    
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    September 25, 2023 11:59am
    - Damocles11
      
      So your preference is what? I don’t care how you define the other parties, anything is better than the far left Labour / Green / Te Pati Maori nutcases!
      
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      September 25, 2023 12:10pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        On that we 100% agree. However I vote it will be with the intention of getting rid of that shower of useless parasites. They will deservedly be gone this election, hopefully I don’t see them in power again in my lifetime.
        
        The mix in parliament is all that is open to debate.
        
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        September 25, 2023 1:17pm
      - kingerstinger
        
        [Mod – debate without making it personal]
        
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        September 25, 2023 2:48pm
- Matt Long
  
  In fairness to Peters, and in view of the Tweet I posted earlier, he jumped off the mandate wagon pretty early, the other four parties are still saying it was the right thing to do.
  https://twitter.com/MurfittTauranga/status/1705686233488523433
  
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  September 25, 2023 9:21am
  - Colville
    
    In fairness to truth, Peters is the POS that put New Zealand under the heel of Jacinda and her incompetent minions when Covid came to our fair shores.
    How anyone with an honest view of history could consider voting for that turd is beyond me.
    
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    September 25, 2023 9:33am
    - Paulus
      
      What was the secret agreement Peters made with Ardern – it has not even been leaked to the media.
      
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      September 25, 2023 11:09am
    - Miritu
      
      I felt the same about Peters, but recent events put all those in parliament in the same, or worse, category
      
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      September 25, 2023 12:09pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      And of course if Winston had gone with National the covid response would have been all wine & roses.
      
      I think you miss the big problem with that assumption.
      
      National and Winnie would have gone with the Covid solution crowd the same as 196 out of 197 countries did with WHO barking at their heels.
      
      The only thing that might have changed would have been speed and intensity of lockdowns.
      Vacinne solution would have been similiar IMHO.
      
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      September 25, 2023 5:26pm
      - Colville
        
        I think we would have had borders closed 3 weeks earlier and no lockdowns.
        
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        September 25, 2023 8:30pm
  - cmm
    
    Winston sniffed an opportunity and grabbed it.
    
    He saw that at least 5% of NZ were anti-forced-jab and decided to grab the opportunity.
    
    All he wants is that 5%. Anything more is gravy.
    
    Only an absolute fool would take Winston at his word that he actually cares about the issue.
    
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    September 25, 2023 11:50am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      cmm – but you want me to trust an idiot who thinks he can get us to net zero and do it without economic devastation? 🤡
      
      Why didn’t Luxon take that opportunity away from Peters? Not difficult to do.
      
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      September 25, 2023 12:02pm
      - Damocles11
        
        Winston can say anything he likes because he only has to get over 5%. He is never going to be heading one of the major parties, he is never going to have to say the sort of things Luxon has to say to get votes. We are living in a country where the Labour party got over 50% of the vote at the last election, this is a left wing nation.
        
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        September 25, 2023 12:34pm
      - cmm
        
        Clan, I don’t expect you to trust any of them.
        
        Construct your life so that you depend as little as possible on the government (whatever the colour they are wearing).
        
        Sure, there is no way to go completely “off grid”. You still need them for some healthcare, roads and a few other things. Just reduce your dependence on them as much as possible.
        
        Regardless of what happened in Covid, and how badly people were treated, that ship has sailed and it is never coming back.
        
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        September 25, 2023 12:50pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        cmm – We’ve done as much as we can. Fully off grid. Self sufficient in power, water, cooking and heating.
        Good gardens. Boat, kayaks for when fuel gets too expensive. Can catch fish and can access local meat supplies.
        Haven’t been into the medical centre for almost 3 years. Doing everything in my power not to have to go see them. If I do, it will be an emergency. I don’t trust any of them which is tragic.
        
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        September 25, 2023 1:29pm
      - sharont
        
        Look at all Winston’s broken promises such as being first into Pike River. There is no way he will keep his promise over having a Covid inquiry. That is never going to happen in this climate where the majority still believe that Ardern saved us. I’m unvaxxed but I won’t waste my vote on Winston and his promises that never come to fruition. I’m a former New Zealand First voter, along with many others, who were betrayed by Winston when he went with Labour in 2017 after saying he would go with the party with most votes, which was clearly National.
        
        Winston will go with Labour again this election if offered Deputy PM, which Labour clearly will offer him. Winston has got nothing to lose. This is probably his last election and it won’t worry him if he upsets his voter base once again. Winston has to start from scratch every election with fresh promises as he alienates so many voters by making promises he never keeps. He started out as a fairly good politician who had a great future before him, but he lost his way and has achieved very little for a man with a lot of ability.
        
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        September 25, 2023 1:59pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Matt Long – what that tweet shows me is, the claims by many that Peters advocated punishing the unjabbed, while true in early 2021, left out the fact that he DID modify his position when presented with new information?
    
    Which is all I ask from any politician, or any person regarding any topic for that matter.
    
    I have seen no such evidence of Luxon or Seymour modifying their position. If there is any, I’d love to see it.
    
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    September 25, 2023 1:24pm
    - Damocles11
      
      For most people – at least according to the polls – ‘covid’ is not the big issue this election. For you, it seems like it’s pretty close to being the only issue. And yet Peters voted for lockdowns & said ‘no jab, no dole, no parole’. I judge him on what he did when he had the power, and not what he says and does now when he desperately needs votes to get back to the baubles of office that he cherishes.
      
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      September 25, 2023 2:20pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        This is getting tiresome.
        
        Clearly this is a primary issue to me. Yes, many people have moved on, though I don’t think it’s as many as you think.
        
        No it’s not the only issue, but all of the other important issues you are alluding to were seriously negatively affected by the policies imposed.
        Education, health, economy, mental health, drug and alcohol issues, suicides. Everything.
        
        Seymour still supports the bs. Luxon won’t speak about any of it. I’ve yet to hear Luxon or Seymour say anything to indicate they wouldn’t repeat the exercise.
        
        So yes, it is the most important issue for me.
        
        Yes Peters did those things, in the earliest days of covid, when it was totally understandably the positions being taken by many. We were all subjected to the biggest PR and propaganda campaign in history.
        
        I’ve given the same latitude to all MPs in parliament and those in mainstream media, also local medical people. Move your position as the evidence emerges.
        
        At that point in time it is no surprise that only a relatively small percentage saw through the scam. Those of us who did were ridiculed, called ludicrous names like ‘conspiracy theorists’, marginalised, censored and deplatformed.
        
        Peters changed his position as the truth began to emerge.
        I’ll give anyone the benefit of the doubt if they change position when presented with new information. Peters is the only one so far doing so. None of the rest in parliament have moved.
        
        None of the mainstream media have moved.
        
        Sadly none of the health professionals at my local medical centre have moved.
        
        I didn’t believe so many people would turn out to be so cowardly or so stupid, because it has to be one or the other now. It’s way past time to pretend you ‘don’t know.’
        
        So Peters might be lying, I guess I’ll find out. But nobody else is prepared to say anything about policies that caused the most destructive outcomes in the history of this country for generations. Outcomes that will take another generation to fix.
        
        I’ll vote where I want based on what I am told.
        Picking your liars over mine is a sick position to be in, but it’s all I’ve got to go on.
        
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        September 25, 2023 3:17pm
    - kingerstinger
      
      There’s no evidence of it, because they don’t care, and neither do most reasonable people.
      
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      September 25, 2023 2:49pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        The fact they don’t care is the reason why I won’t be voting for them.
        
        If you’re right, and most ‘reasonable people’ also don’t care about the human rights abuses and segregation of their fellow citizens, then that’s a tragic indictment on the people concerned.
        
        However, it also means you’ve got nothing to worry about come election time, and National and Act will comfortably take power alone.
        
        We’ll find out in a few weeks.
        
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        September 25, 2023 4:03pm
- slightlyrighty
  
  OK. Here’s what I think will happen on October 14.
  
  NZ First is polling at about 5%, Nats Polling at about 37-38%, Act at 12%, Labour at 27%.
  
  When Labour or National is losing, their voters have a tendency to simply stay away. We saw this in 2020 when the National Vote on the night was 3-6% below the polling.
  
  I have a feeling that same will happen on election night for Labour and they might drop to 25%. Assuming the other parties hold their level of support, National and Act will end up with 64 Seats. Winston will still be in Parliament, but not in a position to pick the government.
  
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  September 25, 2023 11:39am
  - Colville
    
    If Nat/ACT are 64/120 and WinstonFirst is (say) 8 seats…Luxon will offer Winston and Jones comfy but not busy roles to keep them away from the news.
    
    Inside the tent pissing out is the way to have them.
    
    Distasteful but pragmatic.
    
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    September 25, 2023 12:13pm
    - cmm
      
      It should be perfectly obvious that if you invite Winston in, he’ll piss in the coffee pot and all over the furniture before he pisses outside.
      
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      September 25, 2023 12:52pm
      - Colville
        
        That will depends on the baubles he has that you can take away if he misbehaves.
        
        Winston loves dem baubles!!
        
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        September 25, 2023 1:11pm
    - GJM
      
      Exactly the same as John Keybdid with the racist party, to avoid a coalition with Act and having to make some hard decisions.
      This reinvigorated the TPM and destroyedthe last chance to git rid of the racist Maori seats, for which i can never forgive him.
      
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      September 25, 2023 10:22pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Not what Luxon told Hosking this morning, he said it will be very close being MMP, and his preference is Nats ACT, but if they had to deal with Peters it would be as a last resort, no bloody welcome to Peters at all
  
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  September 25, 2023 11:52am
lifesgood

Blooming heck! Mike Hosking this morning! He’s been hounding Luxon for weeks, finally gets an answer then continues to hound him. Come on, Mike, I thought you were better than that.
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September 25, 2023 8:08am
- nathie
  
  Hosking (and HDPA) are foolishly giving WinstonFirst oxygen.
  
  National’s strategy seems to be not to give NZF oxygen and what was wrong with that?
  
  See what happened when ACT gave NZF oxygen a few weeks ago when they put up billboards of Winnie? Yeah they gave him oxygen! Now look his polling!
  
  However having said that I agree with Bob Jones’ take – it is better to have Winston in the tent rather than outside it (if he makes it over the 5% line). He can push back against Labour’s co-governance and get away with it, leaving the MSM befuddled!
  
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  September 25, 2023 11:13am
- oldpark
  
  Agreed thought Hosking was out of order .in fact I thought he was down right rude to Mr Luxon .
  I also believe he was acting like a prize Narcissist .Bad mouthing Luxon .Maybe Hoskings’ real reason on a hidden agenda .He did bet big time that the megalomaniac Peters would not get 5% of suckers vote .
  He could be correct or maybe he will have to honour his flap jaw mouth when he made the bet .
  Just a few more days to get a result .Any which way.
  
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  September 25, 2023 11:17am
  - Ghost
    
    Hosking was doing his job. Luxon said before the election he would announce where he stood with Winston. Voting starts in 7 days, Hoskins got the answer out of him he has refused to give until now.
    
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    September 25, 2023 11:24am
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      If my maths is any good Ghost it can commence in 36 1/4 hours – but you need to out of the country during the domestic voting period 🙂
      
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      September 25, 2023 11:50am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Luxon has given him his reasonings from day one, now he says at the last resort they could work with Peters, and Hosking is still not happy, what tgd hell does he want? Blood
      
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      September 25, 2023 12:20pm
    - kingerstinger
      
      Yup, and Hosking going hard on him is good prep for the next debate.
      
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      September 25, 2023 2:50pm
  - rouppe
    
    I want Hosking to give Luxon and Seymour a hard time.
    
    I want him to challenge them on reducing bureaucracy, on crime, on health.
    
    5 5
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    September 25, 2023 12:02pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    He is clearly an Act voter now, snd he is trying his same nasty stuff as the Aft voters, HDA appears to be on the same boat
    
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    September 25, 2023 12:18pm
- Damocles11
  
  He’s like Hooton; too far up his own jacksy & high on his own ego.
  
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  September 25, 2023 11:29am
- mawm
  
  Everybody is cheering when Hosking gives Labour/green/Te pati a hard time. Can’t you take a bit of push from him at the Nats? It gives him much more credibility a serious media personality and not just as a Nat shill.
  
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  September 25, 2023 11:42am
Paulus

Labour is full of promises but no delivery – so why trust them ?
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September 25, 2023 8:15am
kowtow

Ferald cartoon blaming crypto outbreak on farmers and getting rid of 3 waters.
27 2
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September 25, 2023 8:18am
- Damocles11
  
  It is deranged. Personally I really feel like leaving this Leftist country, no matter who gets elected and forms the next government. We have a sick media & are creating a sick society.
  
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  September 25, 2023 11:31am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    It started in the education sector. It now infects all bureaucracies and mainstream the media is gone.
    
    It’s a dangerous situation.
    
    24 3
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    September 25, 2023 12:05pm
  - Matt Long
    
    The Cannucks are feeling the same way in Trudeauistan.
    https://twitter.com/RealRonChhinzer/status/1705770741449273603
    
    13 0
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    September 25, 2023 12:11pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    Have taken myself and my Super to a Country with a Dictatorship democracy. ie one party country who have elections every 5 years! To get a 99% vote in favour of the big boss.
    
    (Sort of Like Singapore under Lee Quan Yew and his Son)
    None of this media hysteria and confusion.
    
    A strong leader society without all the bullshit (ie Climate change, Gender confusion etc)
    
    Russia? Saudi Arabia, China? etc etc
    
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    September 25, 2023 5:35pm
Bridgenag

Sunday Strip: The Truth Shall Set You Free-
“Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/sunday-strip-the-truth-shall-set?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
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September 25, 2023 8:19am
Bridgenag

From OZ
Those who ridiculed the slogan “It won’t be easy under Albanese” have failed to understand the warning.

This young bloke hits the nail on the head .

https://gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/143/442/586/original/81eb37cbe76fc552.mp4
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September 25, 2023 8:20am
- mawm
  
  He’s 100% correct. Unfortunately a Liberal Party coalition will not be any different.
  
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  September 25, 2023 11:49am
Benedict Yu

Something has gone wrong, again, with the Kiwiblog website. ☹️
50 0
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September 25, 2023 8:25am
- Souvlaki
  
  ‘Rawshark’ or similar left operatives will be attempting to take the site down imo….we KNOW who”ll be behind it …don’t we ?? !!
  
  21 1
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  September 25, 2023 9:29am
- Biscuit
  
  Very wrong, Benedict.
  
  Slower today and working as well as, let’s be cruel, Australia’s Rugby team…
  
  17 1
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  September 25, 2023 10:07am
  - RoboRob
    
    You will note that BY posted at 8:25. It’s the worst I have seen today. Only came back to life mid morning. You can tell by the # of posts. Something is seriously wrong with this sites back end.
    
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    September 25, 2023 11:59am
- Flossie
  
  BY is absolutely right Biscuit. It’s taken me about three hours to be able to see anything here.
  
  21 0
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  September 25, 2023 11:08am
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    Got multiple “Error connecting to database” warnings. Perhaps a denial of service attack on KiwiBlog?
    
    7 0
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    September 25, 2023 1:32pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    Congratulations on your tenacity and dedication in reading the opiate of the masses.
    
    1 0
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    September 25, 2023 5:37pm
- cmm
  
  It seemed to be the link to the database back-end.
  
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  September 25, 2023 11:52am
  - Matt Long
    
    Are those who log in with Patreon getting a better experience?
    
    6 0
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    September 25, 2023 12:13pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Yes, shocking this morning
  
  9 0
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  September 25, 2023 12:22pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Walking to work in Wellington this morning, it is dead quiet. First day of the school holidays, no surprise.

It will be interesting to see how many are ‘WFH’, rather than on leave.

Perhaps it’s time to establish a new form of part time contract, for 40 weeks pa with no work in the school holidays & salary pro rated accordingly. The quid pro quo is that WFH is unavailable during the holidays.

I think this might be surprisingly popular.
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September 25, 2023 8:25am
- kowtow
  
  It’s always notably quieter on the streets during the school holidays when Tarquin and his sister Luna who’s on the committee of her Schools Strike for the Boiling Planet ClimateEmergency , as they sit at home , not being driven to school in the petrol / diesel powered Prado or BMW…….
  
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  September 25, 2023 2:03pm
Maggie Pie

WOW!! Over 3.1M views to date!

Elon Musk sends Dame Jacinda global on X….

https://twitter.com/ElonMuskAOC/status/1705668796483309990
33 1
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September 25, 2023 8:51am
- RoboRob
  
  You know these Lyrics really do relate well to JA….
  
  If you wanna hang out
  You’ve got to take her out, cocaine
  If you wanna get down
  Down on the ground, cocaine
  
  She don’t lie
  She don’t lie
  She don’t lie
  Cocaine
  (Deadly cocaine)
  
  If you got bad news
  You wanna kick them blues, cocaine
  When your day is done
  And you wanna run, cocaine
  
  25 1
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  September 25, 2023 9:39am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Blowfly up the nose?
  
  12 2
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  September 25, 2023 11:27am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  She had just walked through a cobweb. Jacinda is a saint. Clark is a simple TV fishing show guy. The insinuation here is wicked.
  
  32 1
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  September 25, 2023 11:37am
  - Matt Long
    
    I can’t understand why people are making such a big thing about congestion and nasal sprays.
    
    14 0
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    September 25, 2023 12:04pm
- Ruahine
  
  It looks a lot like what the actors were doing in the movie ‘The Wolf of Wall Street’.
  
  13 1
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  September 25, 2023 11:55am
- nathie
  
  Hey nothing to see here … it wasn’t a Nat/ACT/NZF MP doing that … so instead the MSM won’t ask them to clarify what they were doing!!
  
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  September 25, 2023 12:09pm
Chuck Bird

This crap is Premium. I wonder if Labour fund this stance or is the Editor just stupid.

Editorial: Britain shows how climate can become a political football

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/editorial/HOOQ4UK6RRC7BJK3HBHQ23FX2E/
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September 25, 2023 9:03am
Chuck Bird

This is about healthy babies born alive after a botched abortion being left to die. Thumbs down if you think this is wrong.

WA Upper House votes down ‘Babies Born Alive’ abortion bill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHMOcLKLdLU
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September 25, 2023 9:17am
RoboRob

The media are proclaiming Luxon will work with Winston.

Initially I thought this might be a case of National wanting to work with NZF rather than ACT. My thought was that ACT might be pushing for more change than the Nats are comfortable with.

However after seeing the actual video it seems to me something different, honesty. I think Luxon is being honest, he will work with Winston if he must. He also, rightly, says the Chippie and Winston would also work together even though the have both ‘ruled’ each other out. Good on him for being honest.

The other clever thing Luxon has done is shut down the media questioning on this and allow actual policy debate rather than the medias obsession around coalitions. Good move. He probably should have done it weeks ago.
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September 25, 2023 9:22am
- Paulus
  
  What do you expect from the so called taxpayer Financed Media ?
  
  21 1
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  September 25, 2023 11:11am
  - RoboRob
    
    Nothing. I dont watch them (TV1). I have also recently added Stuff to my banned list (perviously it was just Tova on Stuff). I wrote politely to them with regards to their political cartoons. I also followed up to a different email address. No reply at all. I understand they might be tired of dealing with people complaining about bias, but if they wanted to keep ‘viewers’ they could at least reply with ‘Thanks for contacting us we are looking into ways of improving this’.
    
    This was TV3!
    
    I will note that they slammed labour and were openly discussing Labour taking a beating at the election.
    
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    September 25, 2023 12:06pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  He has stated in the past that internal polls had never seen him above5% they probably will be now do he has reacted to the change, he is clearly telling the people you either want rid of this pathetic regime, or you don’t, party vote Nats
  
  8 1
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  September 25, 2023 12:28pm
- I remember when
  
  Will Luxon saying he would work with Winston, if necessary, help the NZ First vote?
  If Labour, and the media, use the statement as an attack on a possible National/ACT/NZ First coalition, will right leaning voters reconsider voting NZ First?
  
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  September 25, 2023 2:45pm
Yvette

How many of Labour’s policies are agendas which they have deemed better to hide until after the Election, leaving fewer policies to present now for voters, that they have turned negative, and seem to spend more time attacking National’s ideas rather than putting forward their own.

So now, having delivered so little on policy, they are not even delivering policy that later they won’t deliver on.

Except for their Arian elevation of Maori – not those grouped at the lower end of most social statistics, but those at the top, giving them exclusive rights above others (like access to Mana o te Wai statements) when most of us don’t know if we still have a current race relations commissioner, or not.
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September 25, 2023 9:40am
ClanMcleod

Who is aware that Auckland Council is a signed up member of another group of unelected, ideological clowns, determined to destroy the way of life of the vast majority of the population? The C40?

Led by London Mayor and climate change zealot Sadiq Khan.

On the board, Michael Bloomberg -President of the C40 Board, UN Secretary-General Special Envoy for Climate Ambition and Solutions.

Also on the board, Bruce Lindsey, Counselor to the Chair of the Board for the Clinton Foundation.

https://ourauckland.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/news/2022/03/auckland-retains-c40-innovator-city-title/

Is Mayor Brown aware of this? It was lefty Goof who was the instigator and led us into this UN driven nightmare. We need to detach from the UN and their woke, ideological lunacy asap.

They have long ago lost any semblance of usefulness. They are a costly, dangerous parasite that will kill the host if it is permitted to get away with even half of the UN SDGs.
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September 25, 2023 9:53am
- Grant
  
  Check out the C40 website if you want to read the ulimate in absolute flannel.
  G
  
  18 0
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  September 25, 2023 10:37am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Yes, it’s a nightmare. I only heard about it a couple of weeks ago. Can’t find anything to see what Brown might think of it?
    
    9 1
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    September 25, 2023 12:08pm
In Vino Veritas

Australia were execrable against Wales. Eddie Jones has destroyed one belief about him though. I listened to Lawrence Dallaglio talking about his coaching, and he said that teams Jones takes on always do quite well immediately he takes over. Then it all goes down hill. Not this time.
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September 25, 2023 10:19am
- thirteenstars
  
  They are goneburger.
  
  Wales will win Pool C and play runner-up of Pool D. Too early to say who that will be.
  
  Fiji will play winner of Pool D, which will be England.
  
  And I wouldn’t be surprised if the island boys roll them.
  
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  September 25, 2023 11:16am
- Don Beckett
  
  Yes, poor old Stralya. Downed 40 – 6 by the Taffies.
  Is Eddie taking the piss out of himself now? 😆
  
  9 1
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  September 25, 2023 11:18am
- Littletramp
  
  Australian rugby demise started with Raelene Castle’s reign of incompetence, exascerbated by the attacks on Israel Folau from the homosexual running Qantas with his personal agenda and has only got worse since. A prime case of “go woke go broke”.
  The only bright light for Oz is both of them have now left the sport – unfortunately we got one of them here now involved in our sport. How’s that going for us?
  
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  September 25, 2023 5:46pm
mandk

Why on earth do Rugby Japan want to talk to Eddie Jones, with a view to making him national coach?

Perhaps they are confused by his surname and think he is currently the coach of the Welsh national team.
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September 25, 2023 11:21am
- nathie
  
  Well Eddie’s mum was Japanese, so that connection might appeal to them?
  
  If so they might be the only remaining team in the world willing to take Eddie on now!
  
  Beware, Japan!
  
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  September 25, 2023 12:15pm
- Colville
  
  I think its Eddies Mum is (was) Japanese?
  
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  September 25, 2023 12:19pm
Nickc2

Labour promises to reward more criminals
Labour has stated that if elected, it will give amnesty to people who have evaded our immigration laws for a period of ten years or more (criminals).
This sucks!
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September 25, 2023 11:22am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Can’t put them in jail. That would be unfair.//
  
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  September 25, 2023 11:47am
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300976787/investigation-into-queenstowns-cryptosporidium-outbreak-intensifies-will-leave-no-stone-unturned
“There were at least 30 confirmed cases of the gastro bug yesterday – mostly people aged 15-39 – with a handful more still under investigation.”
When is someone going to ask the real questions about this ?

Why so few cases ?
Why all young / youngish people ?
Why all apparently from the same inner-city area ?
Why the super-rapid intervention of the new Maori-oriented water authority?
Why was the infrastructure never a problem until 3 weeks before the election?

It stinks.
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September 25, 2023 11:30am
- Nickc2
  
  This was always going to be the election of dirty tricks.
  IMO, you will notice how dirty the tricks have become since Willie Jackson came to prominence in the party.
  
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  September 25, 2023 11:35am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Robertson was the organiser of the dirty tricks in Helen Clark’s regime, he will still be at it
    
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    September 25, 2023 12:30pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  One clown from the Council I think, said they had no idea is the crypto was in the water supply of not. Really? Did he think bottled water was contaminated?
  
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  September 25, 2023 11:45am
  - Ghost
    
    Why is he a clown Steve? They are testing the water and can’t find it in the water.
    
    “The council has been testing the water regularly since the outbreak started and we still have not found cryptosporidium in the water supply,”
    
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    September 25, 2023 11:51am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      So if it is not in the water then where is it?
      Genuine question.
      
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      September 25, 2023 11:57am
      - Matt Long
        
        Crypto can be spread through contaminated food, from pets, or person to person.
        https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/crypto/infection-sources.html#:~:text=Crypto%20can%20be%20spread%20by,feces%20from%20humans%20or%20animals.
        I would avoid butt stuff if you’re in Queenstown at present.
        
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        September 25, 2023 12:02pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Can spread through child-care centres at a great rate of nappies……
        
        and don’t go to the pool…..
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/94895463/cryptosporidium-concerns-continue-as-childcare-centres-confirm-new-cases
        
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        September 25, 2023 2:25pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Code brown!
        
        1 0
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        September 25, 2023 7:33pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @Matt,
        Don’t tell me it came from rich trendsetters little woof-woofs who shit where they please.
        Partner often says “look at all those people taking their doggies for a walk, even in the rain” Nope partner, they are taking their cute little woof-woofs for a shit and piss.
        
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        September 25, 2023 7:49pm
- kowtow
  
  Today’s Ferald cartoonist has blamed Groundswell , no joke.
  
  The Ferald should be held to account for jumping the gun here .
  
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  September 25, 2023 2:07pm
tknorriss

I find it mildly amusing that Labour is demanding National release costings for their tax cuts. What more would satisfy them I have no idea. But at the same time Labour is promising to spend hand over fist on promises without any explanation whatsoever of where the money is coming from.
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September 25, 2023 11:31am
- Damocles11
  
  It’s pretty simple in the minds of Leftists and the media: borrowing for free dental care is awesome, tax cuts are immoral and anyone voting for a party offering them is ‘selfish’.
  
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  September 25, 2023 12:50pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

These idiot who have been programed for the last 40 years need to be stopped!

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/youd-never-guess-what-this-left-wing-woke-journalist-said-about-the-treaty-of-waitangi/

First.
https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Neill-Gordon-What-is-co-governance-I-organised-a-meeting-to-try-to-figure-it-out-NZ-Herald.pdf

Then.
https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Neil-Gordon.pdf

New Zealand is on its way to become something you have never seen. The lies and corruption need to be exposed.
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September 25, 2023 11:34am
Tom Hunter

That’s 360,000 voters locked in for Labour/Greens/Maori Party right from the start.

There are other incentives for the Left to not fix this but this is the primary one.
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September 25, 2023 11:42am
Matt Long

Rosie McGowan leading light of the MeToo movement doesn’t like the anonymous allegations against Brand.
I believe given the number of women Brand fornicated with, the chances of there being false allegations against him are 100%, on the other side of the coin given his lifestyle at the time, the chances of an actual assault having happened are also quite high, but the timing and method of this attack stink to high heaven.
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September 25, 2023 11:43am
- Matt Long
  
  https://twitter.com/MarioNawfal/status/1705905127243104605
  Link to Rosie McGowan criticism quote
  
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  September 25, 2023 11:58am
- NothingLeft
  
  For highly promiscuous men it is inevitably that a few decades later there will be a few percent of shagged that feel ‘violated’ to some degree by what they participated in.
  
  Memory is far from perfect – it is twisted and modified by the very act of remembering, and neurons die after about 20 years, anything older si just rebuilt memories of memories.
  
  If you have a person that has gone down a pathological path regarding how their life has developed: regretting past activities, trying to blame external factors rather than themselves (often enabled by victim-manufacturing counselling industry), then the memories and ‘spin’ of the circumstances becomes dark and almost entirely untrustworthy. MeToo type recollections need to have a very short statute of limitations due to problems of twisting memory and inability to mount defense after decades.
  
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  September 25, 2023 11:59am
- Che Guava
  
  Fake. Why wait 10 or 20 years and come out with allegations only when someone is, or is becoming, a threat to the system? The answer is contained in the question. Same with Trump – he was never “problematic” and was in fact one of the darlings of the luvvies, right until he started and led a popular movement against the entrenched interests. Exactly the same with Brand.
  
  Imagine the irony of a typically completely degenerate elite coming out against the alleged past degeneracy of one of their former number.
  
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  September 25, 2023 12:35pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Trump is threatening the lifestyles of millions of Democrat crooks.
    It is so dangerous they may assassinate him even after he blows them off the face of the Election in 2024.
    Hey, where is that Batman dude who was maybe a Moderator? The one who said he was collecting pro Trumpers names? The silence is deafening Batman.
    
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    September 25, 2023 7:57pm
Matt Long

Now so called “democratic” socialists are far, far, from fascists we are regularly told. Is that why this particular “democratic” socialist comrade led a standing ovation of Canadian MPs for an actual NAZI SS soldier, who fought for Hitler’s third Reich?
https://twitter.com/PierrePoilievre/status/1706047009747038709
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September 25, 2023 11:47am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Was that not covered in the Herald?
  
  There are no Ukrainian Nazis, that’s a conspiracy theory……./s
  
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  September 25, 2023 12:13pm
Swifty

A couple of great runs by the Scottish rugby player McVan de Merwe:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fXxU3OgSZ-Q&pp=ygUfcnVnYnkgd29ybGQgY3VwIDIwMjMgaGlnaGxpZ2h0cw%3D%3D
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September 25, 2023 11:50am
Matt Long

The WaPo has published a poll that has Trump 10% points higher than Biden, unfortunately the poll closed before a truckload of responses in favour of Biden could be delivered.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-crushing-biden-double-digits-new-general-election-poll-finds
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September 25, 2023 11:52am
- Inandout
  
  ML, if you have seen the latest of Biden’s speeches you will understand why. The man is fast losing it.
  
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  September 25, 2023 12:38pm
  - RoboRob
    
    uhhhm dwmps Mega, I meanph Maga grpmdp lying dog faced pony soldier mhssd pst’
    
    11 1
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    September 25, 2023 12:53pm
    - Keith White
      
      Is that Biden or Fetterman?
      
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      September 25, 2023 3:18pm
JJ56

Hopefully will end up being a duplicate post but see https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/stephen-franks-press-seek-to-publicly-shame-doctor-we-must-push-back for a description of Jody O’Callahan of Stuff going to bully @MomoStJohn having found her identity.

Go read and complain to Stuff and Te Whatu Ora who seem to be closing doctors down for having mainstream views.
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September 25, 2023 12:09pm
- RoboRob
  
  Good luck getting a response from Stuff. I have recently sent two polite, inoffensive emails to different people at Stuff and received zero response.
  
  I suspect Stuff are treating all complaints (mine was more feedback) in the same way they treat climate change deniers. Stuff is now on my banned list and I look foward to its demise and remplacement by a better media organisation. I feel sorry for the few ‘good journalists’ in that organisation.
  
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  September 25, 2023 1:04pm
  - John Loveridge
    
    You could replace Stuff with a room full of monkeys sitting at typewriters and it would be better. Statistically at least, the monkeys can be relied on to periodically turn out something readable.
    
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    September 25, 2023 6:40pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I have been starting up on leftie responses to certain comments here. The idea is to expose more leftist stupidity and deflections.
      “monkeys sitting at typewriters”
      Here we go……
      Even monkeys at zoos do not have typewriters, oh except in those “SCIENCE LABS”
      “Certain – recent studies have shown – the Govt says – your EV is.” Fuck it, stop Steve.
      
      Um, I am the guy in the corner now, but the heat pump is on. Oh, noes she stole my/her laptop.
      TTFN before I die.
      
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      September 25, 2023 8:43pm
- Terry Dalee
  
  Hit Stuff where it hurts.
  Take note of the companies that advertise.
  Write to said companies pointing out that you are supporting Stuff.co.nz that is against free speech and point out exactly why. Show them the article and email they sent to the Dr before outing her.
  Ask them do they want to be associated with that?
  
  Boycott said company. Let them know why.
  
  Make go woke, go broke actually happen.
  
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  September 25, 2023 1:58pm
Tauhei Notts

Yesterday’s pub talk.
Me; The unrest amongst voters is so widespread that the Toxic Trio will get 49 seats or less.
Stock Agent: I supply the wine and beer for my grandchildren and their friends, many of whom are on benefits. I listen to them. Those bludgers vote for a living and there are a lot of them. National will win but it will be narrow.
Me; I say $100 the Toxic Trio get 49 or less.
Stock Agent; You are on.
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September 25, 2023 12:12pm
Maggie Pie

Heard the Hosk having a real hate on Winnie this morning when he was talking to Christopher. Think Mike could be just a wee bit disingenuous with all his critisism of them working together.
As one of the girls from tennis just reminded me, Hosk’s b.i.l is the s.i.l of NZ’s richest man. And it’s no secret Harty is one of NZF’s biggest donors.
Imagine the talk over a bottle of Penfolds Grange 😎
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September 25, 2023 12:14pm
ClanMcleod

Paul Henry with a good opinion piece in the Whoreald today. Paywalled, but worth paying for if you don’t have the other means available to read it.

Election 2023: Paul Henry – who gets my party vote? I don’t think National has the fortitude to turn our country around

He rapidly rules out Labour and Greens for obvious reasons, but this was an interesting comment.

It is alarming how often I find myself agreeing with the policy directions of New Zealand First and it has to be said Winston Peters did act as something of an anchor on Jacinda Arden’s unpleasant extremes. But can you trust them/him? No. At best a well-thought-out strategic vote for New Zealand First, only under certain circumstances, would be a very risky move.

I think that one paragraph sums up perfectly the current situation and thinking on this blog, and likely anyone determined to get rid of the worst government in NZ history.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/election-2023-paul-henry-who-will-get-my-party-vote-i-dont-think-national-has-the-fortitude-to-turn-our-country-around/ET4ATVDIP5FBFDPC4P4S6KDRPI/
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September 25, 2023 12:26pm
- Notsofast
  
  Yes, terrible man Paul Henry, but correct on Luxon. The job is bucket list, no one I know thinks Luxon cares about New Zealanders.
  
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  September 25, 2023 12:52pm
- Damocles11
  
  So it sounds like he is leaning towards ACT then….
  
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  September 25, 2023 12:57pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Yes, I would say based on the whole article, Act is his preferred party. He’s also correct in the assessment that a vote for Peters is strategic and is a gamble.
    
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    September 25, 2023 1:38pm
Notsofast

Natasha Frost from NYT has written this flattering piece about Saint Jacinda Ardern, who has been instrumental in ruining race relations in New Zealand. A big girl did it and ran away.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/22/w…-election.html

Also in the Herald but paywalled.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/election-2023-after-jacinda-ardern-a-scary-time-for-women-in-new-zealand-politics/LGVOVUFOH5DGRBOW4HKS2ROK6A/
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September 25, 2023 12:28pm
- kevn
  
  Not… There are lots of very competent women from other parties waiting in the wings. There is a newcomer Dana Fitzpatrick, Nats, running for East Coast who seems to be made of the right stuff.
  Maggy, what say you?
  
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  September 25, 2023 1:05pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Maggy, what say you?
    
    Very little…
    
    We saw her car parked on the main drag this lunchtime and hubby asked me if Dana is male or female.
    
    TBH… I don’t move in Nat. circles… and as I’ve said on here before, I don’t think I’ve ever socially met a member of National.
    
    She is getting bugga-all publicity from the local lefty/green-hugging Gizzy Herald.
    
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    September 25, 2023 2:50pm
    - kevn
      
      Maggy… Tis Dana ‘Kirkpatrick’ as Ghost pointed out. My mistake. Yes, the last Nats trier, Tania Tapsell couldn’t crack the Gizzy locals or media either. They were all over kiri allan like a rash though.
      
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      September 25, 2023 3:53pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Related to the great Ian Kirkpatrick, who came from up that way IIRC?
        
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        September 25, 2023 7:41pm
  - Ghost
    
    I had a Google to see who Dana Fitzpatrick is, I think you might mean Kirkpatrick.
    
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    September 25, 2023 2:58pm
    - kevn
      
      Ghost… Indeed, my mistake. Not even a typo.
      
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      September 25, 2023 3:54pm
I remember when

He Puapua Report wasn’t ‘deliberately’ withheld.

What other sort of withheld is there?
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September 25, 2023 12:36pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Why was it ever commissioned in the first place?
  
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  September 25, 2023 12:56pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Only Nanaia Mahuta can answer that…
    
    https://thespinoff.co.nz/atea/06-01-2022/he-puapua-the-indigenous-peoples-report-that-caused-a-nz-political-ruckus-2
    
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    September 25, 2023 2:54pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Fortescue Metals have dropped the purchase of carbon credits as being meaningless & ineffective virtue signalling. They join Shell, who recently shelved plans to develop a carbon offset programme.

If the guys fall out of the international carbon offset market then you’d have to think that Net Zero is dead in the water.

I like this line – ‘Carbon Credits are the greatest scam since Indulgences’.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Worlds-Fourth-Biggest-Iron-Ore-Producer-Stops-Buying-Carbon-Offsets.html
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September 25, 2023 12:40pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  “Most credits probably don’t represent any climate benefit.”
  Has anybody ever proved that any of these credits have made any difference whatsoever to the climate?
  Has any of the trillions of dollars spent on trying to fix the climate made any difference to the climate? Alarmists like James Shaw never tell us how much difference the ‘investments’ we’ve made so far have made to the climate.
  This nonsense can’t end soon enough for my liking.
  
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  September 25, 2023 1:37pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Now, now…
    
    How do you think Al Gore is going to keep rolling in $$$$$$$?
    https://capitalresearch.org/article/al-gores-carbon-empire-cashing-in-on-climate-change/
    
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    September 25, 2023 2:09pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    Read the above article too.
    One serious question i would like too ask CL after being the architect ? Of AirNZ carbon offsets.
    How the hell do you work it out?
    Not a big question really.
    
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    September 25, 2023 4:35pm
- thirteenstars
  
  “…you’d have to think that Net Zero is dead in the water.”
  
  Tell that to Chris Luxon.
  
  Simeon Brown announces the insane Road to Zero campaign will go under National but it’s Net Zero that’s the true road to zero.
  
  Not much point having faster, better roads if people can’t afford petrol because Net Zero imperatives have spiked the cost of hydrocarbons.
  
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  September 25, 2023 1:56pm
I remember when

The Labourers in the Vineyard gospel is often misunderstood as being about freedom of choice.
What it really says, is that final judgement isn’t influenced by how long you have lived.
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September 25, 2023 12:41pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  God lives by different rules than do men (and women)
  
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  September 25, 2023 7:43pm
ClanMcleod

I posted earlier re the C40 unelected, globalist group of which Auckland is now signed up.
Further to that.

The C40 – a coalition of 40 of the largest urban centres in the world – released a report last week, “The Future of Urban Consumption in a 1.5°C World”, which makes several recommendations on how to save the planet.

They list “realistic” and “ambitious” targets for each category.

“Realistically” they want to limit meat and dairy to 16 and 90 kg per person per year, “ambitiously” they want to take that down to zero by 2030.

They also want to eliminate private vehicles completely and limit everyone to just three new clothes items per year (I don’t know if socks count as two, but for the sake of comedy I hope so.)

Their “ambitious target” for air travel is limiting everyone to one short return flight per person every three years.

This has been floating around the idea sphere for a long time, with very little coverage of what it really would mean.

For starters, of course, there would be exceptions: Private jets, diplomatic flights, military flights, sports teams, celebrities…you get the idea.

Secondly, they would make it so you can sell your “air coupons” (or whatever they call them), meaning poor people don’t fly at all and sell their flights to the wealthy.

You can read the whole report here.

So don’t bother arguing about where the lithium is going to come from for all the electric cars we’re apparently going to be driving.
They have no intention of letting you even have a personal vehicle. Well, not unless you’re one of the special people!

The actual article is from OffGuardian.
https://off-guardian.org/2023/09/24/this-week-in-the-new-normal-73/
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September 25, 2023 1:53pm
- mawm
  
  It sounds like a winning formula! No meat, no butter, no car, ragged clothes, and flying once every 3 years to visit the offspring in Australia.
  
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  September 25, 2023 5:54pm
Eugene

An interesting admission today by sport writer in the Herald Chris Rattue that he dislikes rugby. It’s been fairly obvious for a long time but why does the Herald hire someone to write a regular RWC column who doesn’t like the game, does nothing but criticise it and switches half the column to talk about a league club competition? It again shows the Herald’s disdain for its customers. Generally league followers exhibit typical leftie behaviour. They can’t just enjoy their own game – they obsess about rugby and seem to want to see it cancelled. I hate league and everything about it- however I have a simple solution – I don’t watch it but good luck to those that do. Why doesn’t Rattue just tell the Herald he will no longer watch, travel to or write anything about rugby and ask them to adjust his pay downwards accordingly. He will presumably be much happier.
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September 25, 2023 2:14pm
- Rusty
  
  @Eugene,
  
  Chris Rattue has been inconsistent over the years with his love/hate of both rugby union and league.
  
  Ever since 2011 when the Warriors last played in a final he has rubbished their coaches and players for poor displays and even suggested they should leave the NRL at one stage.
  
  But it all changed this year when they came right.
  
  As for rugby union he has had the same attitude. Rubbished Hansen in 2019 RWC and Foster since 2020 along with super rugby.
  
  Yet talks about the good old amateur days of NZ rugby especially Auckland.
  
  He just likes putting the boot in when the ABs aren’t doing well but was full of praise for Scott Robertson AB coach next year.
  
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  September 25, 2023 2:49pm
- MCōs
  
  “I hate league and everything about it”
  
  You’re hardly unbiased
  
  Personally I think rugby has big problems, depending on how you view the game. Up north they seem to prefer big grunty forwards, power scrums, plenty of penalties and terrible haircuts.
  Down here we like the running game.
  Trouble is the power game up front wins games.
  The Warriors have the passionate crowds that rugby lacks.
  
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  September 25, 2023 3:51pm
ClanMcleod

This is a very worthwhile cause being promoted by Stephen Franks,

Mainstream media doxxing a NZ medical professional for daring to have personal views which go against the current lunatic trends.

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/stephen-franks-press-seek-to-publicly-shame-doctor-we-must-push-back

Franks is encouraging people to email the reporter responsible and her employers to voice your opinion to them. A wonderful cause I believe and hoping many will do so and share the article.
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September 25, 2023 2:25pm
- Keith White
  
  Just done this. Politely and clearly.
  
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  September 25, 2023 4:27pm
- graham
  
  Journalists: “We have sources that leak information and stories to us. We jealously guard and protect their privacy and anonymity; we absolutely will not reveal who our sources are; this is one of our most sacred principles.”
  
  Also Journalists: “Ooh, we’ve just found out the identity of somebody who’s been leaking information and stories online! NAME AND SHAME!!”
  
  The irony seems to just fly right over their hypocritical little heads …
  
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  September 25, 2023 9:32pm
Chuck Bird

I wonder what our political leaders think of this and the School that punishes children for misgendering.

McBLOG: The Government’s trans ‘role model’ for your 9 y/o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=919LdMPayBw
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September 25, 2023 2:27pm
- Notsofast
  
  There are 2 modes operating in this cult. To be wrong or to be silenced.
  Luxon has silenced his team, and Erica Stanford wanted to silence Posie Parker, so she is wrong.
  Be very afraid for the children and grand children with Stanford as minister.
  
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  September 25, 2023 3:10pm
Maggie Pie

He said “Ian” … NOT “Liam”

Remember i posted last month that my partner believes THE CHASE is fixed….
this puts it beyond doubt he reckons.

‘Mistake’ by The-Sinnerman costs contestants $180k!

https://twitter.com/randy0151/status/1704512138939703675
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September 25, 2023 2:49pm
Swifty

Bomber Bradbury shows yet again why he will always remain a very fringe player:

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/09/25/of-course-acts-referendum-is-race-baiting-insanity-that-will-spark-a-race-war-in-nz/

His views are demented. Deranged.
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September 25, 2023 3:08pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  I ain’t going there, Swifty
  
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  September 25, 2023 7:46pm
Chuck Bird

Very interesting.

Michael Shellenberger’s Guide to Escaping the Woke Matrix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey7iWsDYnJ8
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September 25, 2023 3:30pm
Maggie Pie

RANDOM IMPERTINENT QUESTION….

What would you do if you were walking home from tennis and came across
a huge Crocodile with human remains in its mouth?

https://bit.ly/3PwEwcY

FOX NEWS reports – watch.
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September 25, 2023 3:34pm
- Ghost
  
  Put him in the shitty neighbours property?
  
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  September 25, 2023 4:16pm
MCōs

Ring Auckland Council Animal Management
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September 25, 2023 3:57pm
Keith White

“The FDA’s full approval of the Pfizer vaccine was conditional.

Specifically, post approval study obligations include a study “to prospectively assess the incidence of subclinical myocarditis following administration of a third dose of COMIRNATY in a subset of participants 16 to 30 years of age.” Final Report Submission was due December 31, 2022. This submission was late.

The FDA extended the deadline on this very simple study to June 2023.

I still can’t find the study.

I wonder why.”
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September 25, 2023 4:24pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  And in the meanwhile, disturbing rise in heart attacks in the UK. Some blaming jabs, some blaming lifestyles that were negatively altered during lockdowns reducing activity levels.
  
  For me, two chance meetings at a riverside pub garden encapsulates the role of pharma and non-pharma interventions in this sorry state of affairs. Which of these paths bears the greater burden of responsibility, I leave it up to you to decide.
  
  Picture the scene: a warm summer evening during the recent fine weather, a pleasant pub garden, boats and paddleboarders drifting by. A friend came over. He’d been a zealous masker and social distancer. He had fallen out with various people over his over-zealous compliance with the whole Covid theatre. But surprisingly his opening words were to inform me that the 43 year-old girlfriend of a mutual acquaintance had just dropped dead and, amazingly to me, he blamed the vaccine. He then went on to tell me about John Campbell, adverse reactions and the dangers of spike proteins. I agreed that it wouldn’t be a surprise if the vaccine had been a contributing factor.
  
  We hear this story again and again. Vaccine injuries and deaths are a real thing. The real-world benefits of mRNA vaccines are very debatable. ‘Cases’ peaked in January 2022 at three times their previous peak and after 90% of the population were vaccinated.
  
  https://dailysceptic.org/2023/09/24/heart-failure-deaths-in-2023-up-26-on-pre-pandemic-levels-data-show/
  
  In NZ we have the same worrying increase in all cause mortality. But people say “nothing to see here. Move along. Shut up nobody cares”.
  
  At the very least, there should be immediate testing to exclude the jabs as a reason for this and in the intervening time, the whole programme should be suspended until there is unequivocal and verifiable evidence confirming this.
  
  The callousness of some on the blog is depressing, not many, but a few who demand that the whole subject be dropped for political expediency.
  Of course it will never happen, but it makes you look at some of your fellow citizens in a whole new light.
  
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  September 25, 2023 4:49pm
  - Bridgenag
    
    If only some of them could look at the links….
    
    6 1
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    September 25, 2023 5:15pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Yes Clan, I totally agree with you.
    In some ways the coverup is more sinister.
    There is a great opportunity to analyse the side effects of the jab given the high percentage of the population who have been injected.
    
    The short term effects within the first 90 days are, so far, the most important data that has been lost. Any subsequent long term assessment will be tainted by this.
    
    There is also the probability that many taking the jab in the future will be doing so ignorant of the risk of harm or death.
    
    I wonder what are the criminal laws around promoting or knowingly allowing a person to undergo an injection that could kill them?
    
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    September 25, 2023 5:26pm
    - mawm
      
      I find the whole coverup very disconcerting. From the official response that people with covid should go home and wait until they turn blue before coming to hospital, to denial that many people could be walking time bombs and we’ll just allow them to die. At the very least our government should be leading the charge to find out what the cause is, identifying those at risk and looking for ways to ameliorate it. That’s how it was before Jacinda.
      
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      September 25, 2023 6:12pm
    - miltonF
      
      “I wonder what are the criminal laws around promoting or knowingly allowing a person to undergo an injection that could kill them?”
      
      Manslaughter I would think. Especially if the person was not informed of the risk of death. If the person effectively had no choice whether to take the treatment (coercion) then I would think this charge could easily be elevated to murder.
      
      6 1
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      September 25, 2023 6:43pm
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    About 10% of Kiwis refused to take the jab. It would be a no-brainer to compare the death rate of the vaccinated to the unvacinated.
    
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    September 25, 2023 6:00pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      info@cruzpro.com – even though Seymour continues to lie about it and deny it is happening, there is a clear, unequivocal and worrying trend every week showing excess all cause mortality in NZ.
      
      Dr John Campbell looks at the trends around the globe and NZ gets a mention.
      The only countries going against the trend are some eastern European countries with relatively low jab rates and Sweden, who didn’t have the compulsory lockdowns and mandates.
      
      The excess deaths are happening. It’s becoming obvious that a combination of the jabs and possibly poor lifestyle habits that developed during lockdowns, depression, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, lack of physical exercise etc etc. have all contributed to this.
      We don’t know the details because globally, governments are trying to pretend nothing happened, because they know they are going to have an extremely angry population if it turns out they were given an extremely dangerous experiment, which looks increasingly likely.
      
      Full video here.
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6xBiyidQ9g&pp=ygUQZHIgam9obiBjYW1wYmVsbA%3D%3D
      
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      September 26, 2023 2:08am
kevn

Keith… Asking the question, when you know the answer is always rewarding.
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September 25, 2023 4:33pm
- Keith White
  
  kevn… I defer to your undoubted experience in this.
  
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  September 25, 2023 5:25pm
goNZ1

have a look at this pro- lefty reporter in the video looking suspiciously pleased about a 6pm Newshub poll due out tonight. My prediction is it may show Nact coming 2nd again…

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home.html
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September 25, 2023 4:35pm
- Ghost
  
  I would guess, national still able to form a government but act down, Winston up. Labour floating off in the sea and no paddles to row back in
  
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  September 25, 2023 4:44pm
- kevn
  
  goNZ… Remember the Trump pre election poll back then
  ?Many (not all) polls in NZ are made to landlines.
  How many folk do you know who still a landline?
  How many people would be happy to offer their cell phone number publically?
  There is the first problem with polls.
  
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  September 25, 2023 6:09pm
  - Ghost
    
    every political survey i get is online
    
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    September 25, 2023 6:11pm
    - kevn
      
      I was did one for Stuff but my responses clearly didn’t fit their narrative and was never asked again.
      
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      September 26, 2023 8:18am
- NothingLeft
  
  🔵National – 39.1%
  🔴Labour – 26.5%
  🟢Greens – 14.2%
  🟡ACT – 8.8%
  🟠NZ First – 5.2%
  ⚫Te Pāti Māori – 2.2%
  
  What has Peter’s cost NZ in total during his toxic career? I’d pick north of $100 Billion, and now shaping up to deliver the coup de grace to the whole country.
  
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  September 25, 2023 6:44pm
  - Damocles11
    
    “On these numbers, New Zealand First is within the margin of error!”
    
    ‘Crucially, New Zealand First is up 1.9 points to 5.2 per cent – enough to enter Parliament.
    
    The poll was conducted between 17 September and 23 September 2023 with a margin of error of 3.1 percent.’
    
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    September 25, 2023 6:57pm
  - Warren
    
    The main thing is Luxon is now 4 points clear of Hipkins in the preferred Prime Minister’s race.
    It makes you wonder if all those people in the audience of the minor party leaders on the Nation had a imput in the vote.
    
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    September 25, 2023 6:58pm
Maggie Pie

O.M.G. The state of them!

Despite saying they’ve knocked on 150,000 doors…..do you know I’ve never ONCE seen a Green Party volunteer door-knocking around our place. Not even a leaflet poked in my box. Wonder why?

https://twitter.com/NZGreens/status/1706112525249765777
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September 25, 2023 5:22pm
- kevn
  
  Maggie (replying)… green in name only.
  
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  September 25, 2023 6:04pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Your getting good at it now kevie!
    And what about all that acne on Maramas forehead….she’d nver have made the ‘cool-group’ at my bording school 😀
    
    12 1
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    September 25, 2023 6:32pm
    - igm
      
      She would never have made any school on appearance.
      
      6 2
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      September 25, 2023 7:38pm
- graham
  
  According to Marama, ‘whanau’ will soon be able to vote.
  
  What about the rest of us? I thought ‘whanau’ meant ‘family’. Do Marama’s family get to vote first? So confused …
  
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  September 25, 2023 10:49pm
Swifty

Clarence Thomas on Sowell:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qMc_o4jrhJk
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September 25, 2023 6:32pm
Damocles11

The last OneNews poll had ACT going up, the 3News poll has ACT going down – and Winston as Kingmaker! (What to believe? What to trust?)

It’s the breathless narrative the media love – Winston is the Kingmaker!

The constant polling is just another part of the exhaustion and suffocation that is ‘campaign season’ in New Zealand, and the media drive the narrative, not the other way around. How many times must we hear: “On these numbers, New Zealand First is back!”
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September 25, 2023 6:52pm
- ecco
  
  They can’t get many eye balls if the outcome is a foregone conclusion.
  
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  September 25, 2023 8:16pm

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