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September 19, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 19 September 2023

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General Debate

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Warren

Labour and Housing Minister Megan Woods says there’s hugh public benefit from offering solar panel rebates, but what she didn’t say was it was a Labour Party bribe to help get voters back onside.
Megan Woods also said they want to also install them on thousands of Kianga Ora homes, please tell us how you are going to pay for all those homes that are rented and where is the money coming from, as the $ 3.6 billion you siphoned from the Covid-19 fund must be nearly gone by now with all those houses Labour has built that you continually keep crowing about.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/09/election-2023-labour-says-there-s-huge-public-benefit-from-offering-solar-panel-rebates.html
This Government has a bad habit of spending money that is not there especially when they are down in the polls with really not much hope of any recovery , but I suppose that is the Labour way more lies and deciet to dupe those that might vote for them.
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September 19, 2023 8:00am
- pdm
  
  Warren – according to a guy Cate Hawkesby interviewed this morning $4,000 is only 10/15% of the cost of installing Solar which runs to $30,ooo plus.
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:11am
  - artemisia
    
    Plus there is maintenance and eventual replacement of solar panels.
    
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    September 19, 2023 8:29am
    - hullkiwi
      
      …and the battery. Although properly maintained the system should operate for circa 20 years.
      
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      September 19, 2023 9:05am
      - Flossie
        
        So if $30,000 is correct, that equates to $1500 p.a. over the twenty years?
        
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        September 19, 2023 9:15am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        hullkiwi – panels are 25 years plus. They start to become less efficient at 25 or so, but they don’t suddenly stop working.
        In our bach, I had panels that I got off someone who had a housebus that were over 30 years old. They’re still doing the job, but not a huge demand to be fair.
        
        Lead acid batteries are 8-12 years, IF they are properly maintained and not deep cycled too often. (Dropping the charge regularly below 20%)
        You’ll get a max 200 deep discharges out of lead acid, do it too often and they’ll be shot in no time.
        
        Most people don’t maintain their batteries properly. Off grid isn’t spray and walk away. It’s a full time commitment.
        
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        September 19, 2023 9:39am
      - cmm
        
        Clan is correct. Solar systems are not yet self-caring. It is like having a new pet/child in the house.
        
        The problem with giveaways is that a lot of people, perhaps most, will not put in the effort to do it right. The end result is a lot of outlay with very little benefit.
        
        But, hey, sounds good so bugger the details.
        
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        September 19, 2023 11:02am
    - Master Mariner
      
      In addition are the Roofs able to support a Solar array, I would hazard a guess and say most of KO would need reroofed first due to age?
      Then you have the additional problem of an electrical / cabling access to older homes.
      Really gasping at straws.
      
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      September 19, 2023 9:14am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        All sorts happen with State Houses that are not known.
        All electric outlets, light switches and ceiling roses replaced every few years, under the excuse of fire prevention.
        Some door handles replaced as well.
        
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        September 19, 2023 9:39am
      - alex Masterley
        
        An additional point is whether the warranty on a roof will be voided if solar panels are installed which require holes to be drilled in roofing steel or tiles as part of the mechanism securing them to the roof.
        
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        September 19, 2023 9:39am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Agreed. I would support grid tied solar to new builds, retrospective installs, no.
        
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        September 19, 2023 10:21am
      - Local Miller
        
        Not only directly due to age. We looked at putting in solar and found that our roof was the old Durmastic roofing. It’s basically galvanised iron profile with an asbestos/bitumen coating. We’d need the whole roof replaced under “asbestos safety constrains” because the solar fitters aren’t allowed to drill through the Durmastic sheeting because of the asbestos risk. Which is nonexistent since the asbestos is imbedded in the bitumen.
        
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        September 19, 2023 11:04am
      - cmm
        
        A solar array is pretty light. What is more of a problem is the sail effect of the wind acting on the panels.
        
        A concrete tile roof weighs something like 12 tons. It won’t even know the difference adding 100 to 150kg of panels.
        
        But what’s a bigger problem IMHO is vandalism. You can’t even put grass on the ground in KO-ville without it being stolen/sabotages/mismanaged. How is it going to work out putting thousands of $ of solar panels on KO roofs?
        
        I regularly drive past the brand new KO development in Christchurch. It has only been open a couple of months and there is already rubbish strewn around etc. Solar panels would be begging for a stoning.
        
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        September 19, 2023 11:08am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Local Miller @ 11.04.
        Re your roofing: ” It’s basically galvanised iron profile with an asbestos/bitumen coating.”
        There is no asbestos in the Decramastic coating. I worked for Fisher AHI back in the 1970’s and had a lot to do with the manufacturing process in Fisher Decramastic roofing. I left AHI in 1976 and went building/contrracting, and initially my main contracting work was fitting Decramastic roofing. I continued with this when I moved to Australia in 1979 & continued fixing it over there until 1986 – I would use the liteweight tiles in my home building (I built 18 houses while I was there) and it was at that time the asbestos scare was in full swing. There were no restrictions on Decramastic/Decrabond roofing systems – even now. So if the contractors told you that the system had asbestos in it, they were bullshitting you.
        
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        September 19, 2023 12:52pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        My 12.52 comment replying to Local Miller.
        I decided to check up whether or not Decramastic tiles contained asbestos, and it appears that SOME tiles do, despite them all being manufactured in the same plant, using identical materials. No asbestos is added during the manufacturing process; however, in laboratory tests it has been shown that SOME tiles contain traces of asbestos, and this must be embedded in the bitumen during the extraction process.
        But even then, one only has to ensure that the asbestos is sealed in (painted over with a sealer undercoat and 2 finish coats) that will ensure it is safe. I had experience with removing & replacing sheet asbestos roofing while in Australia.
        
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        September 19, 2023 1:42pm
    - rockape
      
      Replacing the panels after 10 years or so is cheap. The panels are the cheapest part of the system.
      
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      September 19, 2023 9:28am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        25 years isn’t a problem with panels.
        
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        September 19, 2023 10:22am
      - rockape
        
        Agree. Had solar panels on my yacht for 30 years in a salty environment. The power output dropped a bit, about 10% over that time. Certainly outlasted my batteries by a factor of about 5x
        
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        September 19, 2023 11:33am
  - Matt Long
    
    It’s another wild promise with no hope of being delivered. The legacy media will be all over this like ” nothing to see here”, back to holding the opposition to account then.
    
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    September 19, 2023 8:31am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Matt Long – that is the key point in all of this, never mind the technical aspect. It’s a very poor attempted election bribe. It is extremely poorly thought out. It will never happen.
      
      A great example of everything Labour have failed to do throughout their time in power really.
      
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      September 19, 2023 10:25am
      - Local Miller
        
        But Chippie promised Mike Hoskin this morning that they were focusing on a few top policies that they guaranteed they could deliver on.
        Is anyone asking them to show the details of their costings? Where are all the independent economists looking for holes in the budget?
        The numbers don’t stack up.
        
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        September 19, 2023 11:09am
      - Master Mariner
        
        Yep. Could not agree more.
        If they were serious they would guarantee a rebate 50% of retailers when putting power back into the grid.
        This would require changes and a big uptake in Solar.
        Let the people decide not the Government mangle it, to make it feasible.
        
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        September 19, 2023 11:13am
      - rockape
        
        The bribe is for those who an afford 26k on top of the 4k subsidy. It is a bribe for the middle class and those who don’t take advantage will be paying for it including the poorest.
        
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        September 19, 2023 12:05pm
  - kowtow
    
    Economics 101.
    
    Subsidies push up the price of the product/service by the amount of the subsidy .
    
    Where’s te media pa aati questioning these figures?
    
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    September 19, 2023 8:33am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Economics 101, Nope.
      The Law of unintended consequences reign supreme with this lot.
      On another note.
      Look no further than Oz and peter garrett and insulation.
      People where getting fried in the roofs installing it.
      Greens and Ideology is not a healthy mix.
      
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      September 19, 2023 11:17am
  - Reg Perrin
    
    Our install was around 9k which is pretty standard and was for for 9 panels and 3kwwhich is around the minimum size. This included an inverter up to 5KW. We could get all panels on one side as it was north facing, single story with easy access.
    
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    September 19, 2023 8:45am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Reg Perrin – are you grid tied or using batteries?
      
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      September 19, 2023 10:26am
  - Taieri
    
    So, if the total cost after the rebate is about $26K and an annual power bill saving is $850, the time to recover the initial investment is about 30 years. What is the useful life of a solar panel? 20 years? 25 years?
    
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    September 19, 2023 8:50am
    - Master Mariner
      
      On a side note Taieri, We have DNV green passport system and this incorporates having an up todate Hazards Register.
      So when the ship is scrapped you have detailed register of all hazardous materials onboard for disposal.
      With this in mind, you would think you could do the same for housing?
      Thoughts?
      
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      September 19, 2023 11:22am
      - Taieri
        
        The housing…I had a man coming down this morning to replace the ripple relay for hot water cylinder. He had to put Hazmat suit on because the front panel apparently contains asbestos. The asbestos in the panel is sealed and the replacement job involved taking two small screws out. Now, I have been in this house for 33 years and didn’t know about all that. So, the question is, how difficult it would be to compile a Hazard Register for each house in NZ? And how expensive? A whole army of inspectors would be needed.
        
        While on asbestos…a few years ago I was on a Singaporean flag ship, which we picked up in Indonesia to deliver to Australia. A few days into the trip we were told to return to Indonesia, because there’s asbestos on board. The entire crew was taken off the vessel and replaced with Filipinos for about 10 days, while the asbestos was being removed. It seems that Filipinos are asbestos resistant. But the irony is that this vessel was previously Australian flagged for several years and chartered to Australian Maritime Safety Authority. This association with the government agency must have neutralized any harm arising from asbestos…
        
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        September 19, 2023 1:29pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        A friend of mine was in the NZ Navy, and the hot pipes in the ships are lagged with asbestos fibre. Much of his work was in the engine room where apparently these pipes are. Bob died of asbestosis poisoning back in about 1985. The tiny fibres got into his lungs & that was it.
        Asbestos hasn’t been used in the building or other industries since around 1980. Remember the brake linings in cars were asbestos, along with a myriad of other uses.
        
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        September 19, 2023 1:49pm
      - Master Mariner
        
        @Taieri,
        Yep , there is nil asbestos cert and Zero asbestos.
        Nil still allows no more than 10% asbestos content , ie Singapore and Zero is zero asbestos. Caught a few ships out.
        Normally brake bands, gaskets are common to contain asbestos.
        AMSA vessel P. Responder by any chance?
        
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        September 19, 2023 5:41pm
      - Taieri
        
        Normally brake bands, gaskets are common to contain asbestos
        ————–
        
        Joints in the Main Engine uptakes, above the silencer. Had to cut the funnel off to gain access. Silly really as these joints are not accessible and are covered with insulation, but regulations are regulations.
        
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        September 19, 2023 6:08pm
    - Phronesis
      
      You’re assuming that electricity prices remain similar to now. Wait until they net zero our National Grid and see what the prices are then!
      
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      September 19, 2023 12:34pm
  - rouppe
    
    It’ll be like the ev’s that James Shaw talked about…
    
    “You can buy an ev for a couple of thousand” he said. Neglecting to say it was an ex taxi prius with 300000km and a rooted battery.
    
    The $4000 will be the price of 2 panels, which is next to useless
    
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    September 19, 2023 9:24am
    - Master Mariner
      
      As BY touched on. As soon as the Government subsidises anything, The price of said items generally go up too match the subsidy.
      Aust went through this in the eighties.
      Are we playing catch up 🙄
      
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      September 19, 2023 11:25am
  - rockape
    
    The $4000 is divided half for solar panels and half for batteries. The cheapest panel only system is about $15000 for 4.5KVA and a matching battery system around $20000. The batteries for most are a waste of money. I have a small system and it halves my bill. The excess during the day covers most of my nighttime use 17 cents v 16 cents. I use a fair bit at night as I have a lifestyle block and 4 freezers plus a cheese fridge and two normal fridge freezers. There are 4 adults in the house. The extra cost of batteries doesn’t make financial sense for me.
    
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    September 19, 2023 9:27am
    - Clyde
      
      “It halves my bill”. The problem with most NZ householder’s electricity bills is that way more than half of the cost is for distribution. Lines charges and the like. My actual energy costs are not too bad because I’m a low user, but the lines charges are exorbitant. So unless you go off grid and have no energy supplied from the grid then the amount of saving is much reduced.
      
      Secondly, what is the end scenario? Why should an energy company invest in generation in a declining market?
      
      I believe that there needs to be a completely independent assessment made of NZ’s energy needs long term, and the less that politicians have to do with it the better. FFS, the short tubby one that waddles round Liemore’s front bench is still supporting the Lake Onslow project. Completely ignores the basic fact that most of NZ’s consumers are in the north of the North Island and most of the production is in the south of the South Island.
      
      It is a major issue.
      
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      September 19, 2023 9:38am
      - rockape
        
        Yes my average bill was around $450 pm so quite a high user. Daily charge is $1.04 of that. Lucky I am in a high sun area even better than Nelson with n facing long roof and no obstructions so good for solar.
        
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        September 19, 2023 10:51am
    - rouppe
      
      The excess during the day covers most of my nighttime use 17 cents v 16 cents
      
      My understanding is the electricity companies pay you 7 or 8 cents for excess, not 16/17…
      
      It’s that information out of date?
      
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      September 19, 2023 10:55am
      - rockape
        
        Depends on the power company. I was on 6 cents with one power company. Moved companies and now get 17 cents. Last bill in a not too sunny month got 66 dollar rebate.
        
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        September 19, 2023 11:37am
      - rockape
        
        Example of cost before and after a non battery system Aug last year $358; Aug this year $166. We do have high daytime usage with three adults at home during the day.
        
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        September 19, 2023 11:43am
      - rouppe
        
        And that company is….?
        
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        September 19, 2023 7:16pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      A cheese fridge. Way to go, Rocky!
      
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      September 19, 2023 6:48pm
  - Lance
    
    I seriously question the economic benefits of a solar house battery.
    They are extremely expensive, have a 2000 cycle lifespan (down 50% storage) and store around $1.70 of electricity.
    
    I am actually a fan of solar power but there is some pretty woolly thinking around how to implement it.
    
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    September 19, 2023 9:55am
    - rockape
      
      Bought now with a likely dramatic increase in power prices over the next 10 years it made sense to me. We are probably a higher user, about 30 kw per day. A small syastem that covers day use most days plus buyback that pays more than night use rates pays. In winter it doesn’t meet our needs but March this year, our first month of usage it pulled in over 900 kWh in a month we really only have a winters use to judge on and it’s still better than I expected. We have changed habits a bit, dishwashers washing machines etc now done mid day rather than evening . We do advantage of 1% interest from ASB and borrowed the ful, $14000 to install. Current estimate is it will have paid for itself in 7 years.
      
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      September 19, 2023 10:06am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Yup, it’s all about trade offs and balancing.
        
        We’re very happy with our full off grid system which has been in place for 12 years and works very well. Just did a major upgrade which should see us sorted for the next 20 years. Total investment. $45k.
        $1400 per year. As power prices increase our ROI will increase accordingly.
        
        Downside? No microwave oven, nothing with an electrical element in it. Also you learn to do things like washing clothes and vacuuming on sunny days when the power is cranking in.
        
        We also installed solar hot water which is one of the best moves we ever made.
        
        Upside? Security of supply, no worries about rising prices, no worries about power cuts. No 55C restriction on our water supply!
        Watching the bluetooth connected app showing the batteries filling up on a sunny day!!
        
        Very happy with our decision. But it’s not really viable in densely populated cities.
        
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        September 19, 2023 10:36am
      - mawm
        
        Clan – It would probably have been cheaper to install and run a diesel generator, and you could have run a microwave, etc.
        
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        September 19, 2023 1:47pm
      - rouppe
        
        @Clan “nothing with an electrical element in it” must mean that stove and oven at least is gas.
        
        So your energy bills need to include the cost of running gas. There’s no point saying “my electricity bill is $50 a month” if you’re not saying your gas bill is $100 a month…
        
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        September 19, 2023 7:22pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        rouppe – have you never heard of wood stoves with ovens? Here’s a couple to get you started.
        
        https://search.brave.com/search?q=Wood+stove+ovens&source=desktop
        
        What about home built pizza ovens? What about tandoori pits? What about wood fired bbqs?
        
        Seriously? Think outside the square mate. This is part of the reason we’re in the shit. Everybody wants stuff handed to them for nothing. Nobody wants to get off their arse and work for what they want.
        
        I can’t believe you said that. No wonder this country is in trouble.
        
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        September 19, 2023 9:05pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        mawm – nope. A diesel generator wouldn’t have got close in the cost/benefit analysis. Not remotely. Done the maths many times. Solar is far more economical, and I don’t have to worry about the sun putting the prices up.
        
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        September 19, 2023 9:11pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    pdm – that’s for a full solar system. Batteries are a very large component of this. When we put our system in 12 years ago the batteries were over a third of the cost.
    Installing solar on grid tied houses shouldn’t involve batteries?
    
    I advocated for years, and still do, that all new builds should have a minimum of 3 kWh of panels installed during construction and the system tied to the grid.
    This would be relatively inexpensive as a proportion of the cost of a new build. More expensive doing it retrospectively obviously.
    
    The panels are practically zero maintenance. Every house has a roof that faces the sky. Most people are out and about during the day while the sun is shining. Industry is demanding the power at the same time.
    Input and output is metered. Your meter goes ‘backwards’ when you generate more than you use. Whatever you generate offsets your consumption. I do believe this is a no brainer.
    
    I have no idea why Woods would bring batteries into this mix? That makes zero sense. You don’t want domestic consumers having anything to do with batteries. It’s a recipe for disaster.
    
    Building houses with a grid tied solar component actually makes a lot of sense. But Megan Wood is talking nonsense as Labour always do.
    
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    September 19, 2023 9:59am
  - nzgoose
    
    3KW installed on a single story tile roof is about $12000 (2019 price) gives us about a 50% saving on a family of 5 and thats with carefull use and someone at home to use electricity when its generated.
    if no one is home to use the generated power it’s likely to only save 20-30% batteries can double the cost but give the savings at night.
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:46am
    - rockape
      
      Three adults at home and I have a working wife. Downside is this the dish washer and washing machine now my toys, not hers!
      
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      September 19, 2023 12:20pm
    - judith8409121
      
      just confused here – if no one is home how come you are still using power?
      
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      September 19, 2023 4:17pm
      - rouppe
        
        Fridges and freezers still run.
        Heated towel rails still run, even if on timers.
        You probably have your Internet routers on 24×7.
        A dozen appliances on standby draw a bit.
        You can set your clothes dryer and dishwasher on delayed start to run during the day.
        
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        September 19, 2023 7:28pm
  - bennerg
    
    What needs to be factored in is that a cheap install will not cover all weather conditions. So there will still be a reasonable amount of power drawn from the grid in inclement weather, and if the users do not “curate” their power usage to maximise the effect of the sun.
    
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    September 19, 2023 11:44am
  - miltonF
    
    “According to a guy” lol!
    
    You can easily check the price of installation with any of the solar providers.
    
    $20k would get you a huge 10KW system. More than the average household would consume. Probably only need to go this size if you have a large family, EV to charge etc. With a 25yr warranty and estimated $100k of electricity generated over 25yrs, this seems like a very reasonable investment? Actually, better than any other investment available. There are downsides though, like having to wait 7yrs for the investment to pay for itself. Locked into the same house for 7yrs to get free power for the next 18yrs (at least). Also upsides, like increasing the capital value of your home.
    
    At $30k you could afford a battery too, and go completely off-grid.
    
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    September 19, 2023 3:13pm
    - Local Miller
      
      You probably need to review your maths a bit. $20k plus interest as most people can’t pay cash. $100,000 over 25 years is $333.33 per month, this would be 48% MORE than my monthly electricity account, and I’d estimate over 80% of most people’s accounts. Since most people’s electricity consumption occurs at night, without batteries there’s no way to save that much. So now you need an extra $10k for batteries and the numbers get worse.
      
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      September 19, 2023 7:39pm
- Ipanema69
  
  All true, but I suspect at this stage Labour is aware that they will never actually have to deliver on any promises. Accordingly most of these policies are just an attempt to save the furniture.
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:11am
- Simon
  
  There are alien mummified bodies with more life than Labo.
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:30am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It’s a bribe for the suburban latte set who might be tempted to vote Green.
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:34am
  - cmm
    
    Ditto Luxon’s 10,000 EV chargers.
    
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    September 19, 2023 11:12am
    - Damocles11
      
      Do you think there really is such a thing as Blue – Greens? Sad to think of right of centre people succumbing to Leftist climate hysteria.
      
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      September 19, 2023 11:16am
      - mawm
        
        One can be green without being a commie. I think most farmers are with their careful management of their soil, trees, run off, etc.
        
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        September 19, 2023 1:50pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        The term ‘green’ has been bastardised by the most who now permeate the political party bearing the name.
        It used to mean concern for the environment.
        
        Now it’s unproven, ideological garbage driven by shysters and fraudsters like Al Gore and the poison dwarf Greta Thunberg who are in this for the money.
        
        The green movement is a scam, just like the covid movement was a scam.
        
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        September 20, 2023 7:08am
    - rockape
      
      With many car hire companies using EVs it’s a necessity to avoid the ensuing chaos. I don’t think I will ever own an ev, I won’t live long enough for the hydrogen car to arrive so I guess I will stick with the diesel suv and the 3.2 litre sports car.
      
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      September 19, 2023 12:23pm
- RoboRob
  
  Great so let me gt this right. KO houses are nice and new, with all the bells and whistles and now will come with solar. Meanwhile the people who pay their taxes to fund these scrape by without all the mod cons. Sounds fair.
  
  Also would add that unlike AU solar panels don’t do much to help the grid here. In AU peak usage is during the day to run Aircon, by having solar that takes a huge strain off the grid. Reduces need to transmission upgrades and additional generation. Makes some sense for the AU govt to fund. In NZ peak usage is at night (heating) and generation during the day further makes the grid lop sided. We still need to build the generation and lines infrastructure to support night usage so the ‘reward’ to the grid of solar is ~zero. There is no ‘return’ for the country for the govt to pay for solar generation for special kiwis.
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:50am
  - septic skeptic
    
    That is why solar needs batteries. At present these are uneconomic in that by the time you pay back the battery it needs replacing. Better/cheaper batteries are needed.
    They are on the way 😉
    
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    September 19, 2023 9:10am
    - RoboRob
      
      Maybe. I’m focused on whats possible now 🙂
      
      6 0
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      September 19, 2023 10:06am
    - kowtow
      
      ‘They are on the way’……
      
      …… like “green” hydrogen is .
      
      Bwahahahaa.
      
      9 0
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      September 19, 2023 10:13am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      septic skeptic – and whatever you do, don’t mention the environmental impact of sourcing the raw material needed for batteries and the issues with disposing of them when they’ve done their dash……
      
      13 0
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      September 19, 2023 10:39am
      - Master Mariner
        
        Nope not allowed to mention that.
        Also high fossil fuel costs to manufacture.
        Zip.
        
        6 0
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        September 19, 2023 11:33am
    - Scott
      
      My understanding is that battery storage for solar power is not feasible. Nor for wind power.
      Powerline blog says that wind and solar work less than half of the time.
      They also say that there is not a town or village in the world that uses only renewable energy.
      Maybe wind or solar may work for a person living in a single house? But that’s all.
      
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      September 19, 2023 11:18am
  - judith8409121
    
    not only is it stupid idea for NZ it will undermine the existing power generation infrastructure – reduce maintenance as it has done in other countries funding this lifestyle choice. I would have expected NZ government to support government initiatives like the introduction of another geothermal generator not this BS
    
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    September 19, 2023 4:20pm
- Colville
  
  Lots of KO homes are dated and due for replacement/redevelopment. You would have to be a special kind of stupid to spend $30,000 putting solar on a house that is due to be torn down or sold off in the next 5 years.
  
  Nek minut…Megan Woods…”hold my beer”
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:03am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Where is their costing, show is their modeling
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:09am
  - Damocles11
    
    ‘I want spreeeeaddd sheeeeettttssss!!’
    
    21 0
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    September 19, 2023 9:23am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    They can stick their modeling where the sun don’t shine. Didn’t we learn enough about bs modeling during covid?
    Remember the 80,000 dead?????
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:40am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Sarcasm man, I was doing what the blow hard Robertson was going, note no costings or modelling available for the cost of their policy yesterday
      
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      September 19, 2023 1:54pm
- Burtland
  
  More girl-math from Megan Woods.
  
  If anyone had any sense they should have put PV onto all the new barn schools
  
  The massive roof areas are begging for solar PV and it could have been used directly in the classrooms during the day for heating/cooling. Instead theyve all got massive heat pumps – another lost opportunity.
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:34am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Burtland – absolutely spot on.
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:42am
  - nzgoose
    
    Schools are a prime example of good places to use solar, 90%+ of consumption when the sunis likely to shine, good easy roofs to install on and responsible “owners” that should have been a covid shovel ready project as there are installers all over and there would be long term savings.
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:49am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Maybe they could cover all of Auckland with solar arrays to power up all the Energy Intensive Data ( mining) centres the great annointed one has signed us up for ?
    
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    September 19, 2023 11:38am
- coge
  
  Albo made a similar electoral promise to Australia. About a $272 reduction in electricity bills. Of course the costs went up instead, by a substantial amount. Albanese blamed ‘the modeler’ for getting it wrong!
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:37am
- Close Hen Counters
  
  Warren, I heard on a radio show some months back that solar panels are useful if you can put them anywhere not on your roof. Two major roofing companies that share the monopoly in nz stop their warranty if solar panels are attached to their roof products – I’m sure but don’t want to be quoted that colour steel is one
  
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  September 19, 2023 10:34am
- WCoaster
  
  The Minister conveniently forgets that a key component of solar panel construction is coal – something she and her government are hell bent on banning – either overtly or via regulatory strangulation.
  
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  September 19, 2023 11:50am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  And given the crap that they use to build and outfit state houses (if you don’t believe me, go to Placemakers Trade shops and they have shelves of stuff, like plastic mortices and the like. And they go out by the dozen), how does our Megan (a low IQ woman who told NZ Refining Marsden Point wasn’t a strategic asset, so they made the decision to shut down refining, then Megs changed her mind. DOH!) expect that solar panels on state houses are going to work?
  
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  September 19, 2023 12:49pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    Once you understand,
    Fuel comes from service station,
    Food from a supermarket and power from a socket then your indoctrination will be complete//
    
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    September 19, 2023 1:07pm
- freemark
  
  About 10 years ago not a single Green MP had a solar PV system. I wonder how many do now. Or how many Labour MP’s.
  
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  September 19, 2023 12:57pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    Why would they?
    You have to work and save hard.
    I would think SFA fit into that catogory.
    Rather blame others for there misfortune and protest against others that are prepared to do the hard yards.
    5% of the population are generally unemployable.
    Theres the Green Party right there.
    
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    September 19, 2023 1:12pm
- Piniwi
  
  Have to wonder Warren if this will be after they have lifted the State houses up to the same warm dry home standards required for private rentals. The majority know that Labour are big on announcements but fail to deliver. They are now even re-promising an old promise from back in 2017 with their rush to shore up woman’s health for a few votes.
  
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  September 19, 2023 4:34pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Much is made of the generosity of Ngati Whatua in gifting 3,000 acres to help found Auckland.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/09/auckland-s-deputy-mayor-desley-simpson-backs-calls-to-change-city-s-anniversary-date.html

However, “the Crown paid £341 for the original land handed over for the settlement (3000 acres)”.

Now, even at the time that seems to have been a discounted price, but it’s not nothing and should be acknowledged.

https://waitangitribunal.govt.nz/publications-and-resources/school-resources/orakei/the-founding-of-auckland/
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September 19, 2023 8:01am
- Cassandra
  
  Ngati Whatua did this to protect themselves from Ngapuhi. There’s a lot of new history being written at present. Ngati Whatua abandoned their lands at one stage because of the ravages of a much better armed Ngapuhi.
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:10am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep,
    
    Ngati Whatua were vulnerable..
    
    https://waitangitribunal.govt.nz/publications-and-resources/school-resources/orakei/the-founding-of-auckland/
    
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    September 19, 2023 9:14am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Fine
    Then Ngapuhi can pay them
    
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    September 19, 2023 9:22am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Please don’t tell me that the Ngapuhi were evil colonisers Cassandra….
    
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    September 19, 2023 1:00pm
- Cassandra
  
  One might also ask why Tauranga celebrates Auckland’s Day? Shifting Auckland to the September day will be a good opportunity to change Tauranga’s to something appropriate, such as the day BoP first won the Ranfurly Shield or perhaps the day WP was unelected as the MP. Something really important.
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:16am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Change it to a Wednesday before school holidays so Thursday and Friday become Teacher only days, then Teachers get an extra 3 days to beat the crowds to the camping grounds or bach.
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:09am
- Matt Long
  
  I haven’t seen comparable sales for the period but that seems like a fairly hefty sum, did it include the sky tower? Or was it undeveloped wilderness?
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:37am
- lifesgood
  
  So why have they been given all the area around the Spark arena much of which was land created by the settlers.
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:53am
  - Damocles11
    
    Good point. Reclaimed from the sea, wasn’t it.
    
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    September 19, 2023 9:21am
    - Burtland
      
      havent they claimed the sea bed as well?
      
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      September 19, 2023 9:41am
- hullkiwi
  
  Snow news last night were breath takingly ignorant last night, showing a map of the area “gifted”.
  
  Sad thing was, in the piece on TV they used a modern day map. Problem with using that map, is that a large percentage of the “land” shown as being “gifted” in the 1840s was indeed under water or mangrove swamps.
  
  As for Desley, nothing has changed since the days of her being chair of Remuera Young Nats.
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:14am
- Damocles11
  
  We are seeing history being erased and re-written right before our eyes. This is shameful.
  
  The Wikipedia page for Auckland now shows the following:
  
  ‘Soon after signing Te Tiriti, Ngāti Whātua Ōrākei made a ‘tuku’ (strategic gift) of 3,500 acres (1,400 hectares) of land on the Waitematā Harbour to the new Governor of New Zealand, William Hobson, for the new capital, which Hobson named for George Eden, Earl of Auckland, then Viceroy of India.[29][30][31][32][33]’
  
  All the sources documents linked are recent.
  
  All reference to this land being sold by Maori to Hobson is being erased!
  
  More here –
  
  https://www.nzcpr.com/governor-william-hobson-new-zealands-forgotten-hero/
  
  ‘Auckland’s original settlement land: gift or purchase?’
  
  ‘A contentious issue concerning Hobson’s involvement in early Auckland is whether the land the capital was built on was gifted by local Ngati Whatua Maoris or bought from them. When Hobson came to New Zealand in 1840 to establish British sovereignty, he was working under strict instructions, issued on 14 August 1839 by Lord Normanby, Secretary of State for the Colonies, to obtain land from Maoris under “fair and equal contracts” that he would then on-sell to settlers at a profit to fund colonial operations. He was also an honest and upright person who could not consider taking gifts of great value from Maoris such as land. On 18 September 1840, as noted previously, a provisional agreement was reached for Ngati Whatua Maoris to sell 3,000 acres of what was then poor quality, undeveloped land to the British Crown for the establishment of Auckland. On 20 October 1840 the deed of purchase, including the list of consideration items, was executed by Ngati Whatua Orakei chiefs with Hobson in attendance. It seems indubitable that Auckland’s land was sold by the local Maoris and bought by the British Crown.
  
  The notion that the original Auckland land was gifted stems from an embassy of Ngati Whatua chiefs from Orakei on the Waitemata Harbour arriving at the Bay of Islands in February 1840 shortly after the Treaty of Waitangi was first signed. These chiefs already had their sights on Hobson setting up his capital in their tribal territory in order to gain British protection from the fearsome Northern Ngapuhi tribe, which had come down under ravenously cruel warlord Hongi Hika and killed and cannibalized their tribe almost to the point of extinction during the early phase of the Musket Wars in the 1820s. In exchange for Hobson living among them, the Ngati Whatua were willing to gift land for his colony. In any event, as described, Hobson did move his capital down south from Russell and onto Ngati Whatua tribal territory in order to establish Auckland, but he arranged for the land to be bought fair and square and for the title to be indefeasibly transferred on a willing buyer, willing seller basis, and the Maoris of the time he dealt with knew that.
  
  Yet today, at several points of commemoration around inner Auckland city where the land transfer is mentioned (Hobson is usually omitted), including those funded by Auckland Council or its related entities, we find statements that Ngati Whatua Maoris gifted the land for Auckland to be built on, and even that Hobson and the British colonists were under their tribal protection. It is regrettable that these palpable falsehoods are perpetrated in this dishonest way, and worse, at ratepayer expense. It dishonours Hobson, and the shared history of Aucklanders and New Zealanders, including the forebears of today’s Ngati Whatua who dealt with Hobson, that this mendacity should be allowed to stand.
  
  It is notable that the Ngati Whatua Orakei Claims Settlement Act 2012 only dares state the following:
  
  “Acknowledgements
  (10) The Crown acknowledges that Ngati Whatua Orakei endeavoured to establish a relationship with the Crown from 1840 and sought to strengthen this relationship, in part, by transferring lands for settlement purposes. These lands have contributed to the development of New Zealand and Auckland in particular. The Crown also acknowledges that Ngati Whatua sought to strengthen the relationship by expressing loyalty to the Crown.”
  
  The word “transferring” in the Act’s context is ambiguous. It could mean simply the legal notion of title transfer, or it could encompass gifting, or sale and purchase. But it is telling that the acknowledgement stops short at stating “gifting” outright, which is as it should be. The use of gifting to describe the original land transaction for Auckland should be struck out of public commemorative signage and plaques and replaced with truthful references to selling.’
  
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  September 19, 2023 3:50pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Queenstown under a Boil Water notice.

No word on how 3 Waters would have prevented this situation.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/09/boil-water-notice-issued-for-queenstown-and-frankton-after-multiple-people-fall-ill.html
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September 19, 2023 8:02am
- Ehlana
  
  No doubt a treaty claim will be along soon. Meanwhile I trust the Council is providing household delivery of bottled water to Maori and Pacifica, in accordance with Te Tiriti.
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:13am
  - pdm
    
    Wow Ethlana – did they have bottled water in 1840?
    
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    September 19, 2023 8:48am
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      No, but in fairness they did have unlimited access to clean fresh water
      
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      September 19, 2023 8:53am
      - Dougal10
        
        Only upstream of where they lived.
        
        26 0
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        September 19, 2023 9:04am
      - Burtland
        
        go and read Roux’s Journal from 1772 – they struggled to find clean fresh water
        
        13 0
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        September 19, 2023 9:45am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Yep, you won’t get fresh clean water until you remove the dead pigs upstream.
        
        9 0
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        September 19, 2023 10:14am
    - Littletramp
      
      Yep, never heard of wai platiki?
      
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      September 19, 2023 8:55am
    - RoboRob
      
      I believe so. They also had radiio, tv and cell phone radio waves.
      
      Also they were great environmentalists who managed the natural resources to perfection. The Moa are a legend created by the white man, they never existed. Please pass the mutton bird.
      
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      September 19, 2023 9:01am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        GPS to get to Antarctica and South America.
        
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        September 19, 2023 10:17am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    And put the H in Wakatipu
    
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    September 19, 2023 9:11am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Apropos of the Big Wind – I wonder what Kiwirail’s plan was in the event of a ferry losing power at the entrance to Tory Channel.
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September 19, 2023 8:02am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  They do not have one.
  
  No tugs in the Cook Strait area capable of towing in those winds.
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:12am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Yes indeed, Really out on a limb and winging it with no Ocean going Salvage Tug.
    I have made my points quite clear to the “powers that be” about this very issue.
    Deaf ears until the shit hits the fan.
    
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    September 19, 2023 9:20am
    - Damocles11
      
      Then big $$$$ in the aftermath for an inquiry into what went wrong and a plan for how to prevent it happening in the future.
      
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      September 19, 2023 11:20am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Let’s hope one of the churnalists that quietly frequents these pages asks this question of the Minister of Transport.
    
    Should this event unfold, it will be horrific, as well as entirely predictable. Anyone responsible for not having a suitable tug available will deserve to be hanged in effigy.
    
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    September 19, 2023 1:24pm
- Blackbob
  
  It’s called the “Wahine 2 Plan”
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:12am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  It’s happened before…
  https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/87597727/kiwirail-ignored-advice-when-fitting-failed-interislander-ferry-propeller–report
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:14am
- wsk12345
  
  Ive asked some staff there and there is no plan. Coastguard/port company also had no plan when asked some years ago though I believe some kind of working group was established.
  
  If a ferry loses power outside Tory in a strong wind there is nowhere for people to go, even with lifeboats as the shore is rocky cliffs. No doubt the bigger fishing boats will come out from Picton but that’s an hour away….
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:30am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Just swim and hope the tide is coming in.
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:27am
- crackle
  
  Its a big problem, we only recently dodged a bullet with that container ship. Its was only down to luck that the heavy tug was working in the New Plymouth gas fields and was able to steam down to assist. For a good portion of the year the closest / big enough tug would be in Aussie. Basically catastrophe is inevitable.
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:32am
  - Master Mariner
    
    You are on too it. Bang on.
    Soon there will not be any capable vessel due to no exploration work.😏
    
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    September 19, 2023 11:48am
  - Taieri
    
    the closest / big enough tug would be in Aussie.
    ————–
    
    WA or NT. There’re currently no anchor handlers in the Bass Strait.
    
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    September 19, 2023 6:19pm
Chuck Bird

I just heard Hipkins tell Hosking that he can’t control the weather. Funny how he thinks he can control the climate.
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September 19, 2023 8:03am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Apparently they can with tax dollars.
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:04am
  - kowtow
    
    The Greens can , by making enough offerings of cows to Gaia ,on the altar of Irrationality .
    
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    September 19, 2023 8:17am
    - Damocles11
      
      There are approx 5 million stray cows wandering around India producing nothing….except ’emissions’ I guess. But these are unable to be sacrificed – or even rounded up apparently – due to the Hindu veneration of these beasts.
      
      Btw, the total cow herd in India is 308 million head. They must be really low ’emitters’, because apparently if we do away with NZ’s 9 million cows we can ‘save the planet’.
      
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      September 19, 2023 9:14am
      - kowtow
        
        Actually those cows do produce something .
        
        “Communal” rioting .
        
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        September 19, 2023 10:20am
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        And Damocles, there are scientists in Russia who are deforesting and increasing bovine numbers in the tundra areas of Siberia. It appears forests are helping melt the perma frost. Which of course will release insane amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere. Having masses of cattle and bison etc will help slow it down apparently. Go figure.
        
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        September 19, 2023 1:08pm
- Vinicius
  
  Not surprising, he seems to struggle controlling\managing anything else that a good government is responsible for.
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:32am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  He can’t even control his ministers
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:13am
imalwaysright

Ratify any proposed coalition government with a referendum .
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September 19, 2023 8:04am
Bridgenag

Just for fun Billy T

https://youtu.be/OMAis8eW280?si=ecv8m5-vQm6ytQuj
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September 19, 2023 8:06am
Bridgenag

Covid Juice 3.0 hits the shelves in Germany, with interest at such record lows that many doctors have not even bothered to stock it

“This, then, is how it ends. All the Very Important Science People have been wrong about everything, which means that none of them can pull the plug on this farce. They’ll continue their doubtful performances, selling slightly updated versions of failed pharmaceutical products and making claims well in excess of the evidence to an ever shrinking audience of virus enthusiasts.”

“I’m quite sure some care homes will once again impose inhumane mask requirements, but there’s no chance vaccine regulators will urge wider uptake. We’re in a long, slow process of deradicalisation, and that only runs in one direction.”

https://www.eugyppius.com/p/covid-juice-30-hits-the-shelves-in?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
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September 19, 2023 8:06am
- Master Mariner
  
  Interesting is the fact that they have already signed up too 10 years worth, Or at least my understanding.
  So in essense they dont need to sell anything.
  Big Pharma already have the money.
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:33am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Master Mariner – I think you’ll like this read from el gato malo.
    
    Remember when pseudoephedrine was removed from decongestant treatments like Sudofed, because back street chemists where using it to make meth?
    
    decongesting the ingredient lists of decongestants and a friendly wager
    
    many likely remember the changes to decongestants mandated back in 2006 when longstanding drug pseudoephedrine was replaced by phenylephrine because “trailer chemists were using decongestants to make meth.”
    
    at the time, folks largely seemed OK with this and assumed that well, yeah, sure, maybe the new one is not as good, but it makes sense.
    
    but did it? did it reduce meth one whisker? not that i am aware.
    
    Nope, pretty sure that in NZ, meth production has gone up.
    
    Apparently the FDA is now saying that after recent testing, they’ve discovered that the new version has no beneficial effect when compared to placebo.
    
    this whole thing, like so many aspects of the FDA and the war on drugs was just a sham rooted in murky fact claims, supposition, and utopian reality denial.
    
    apparently, there was no real testing and phenylephrine never worked at all. these products have been fraudulently marketed since they day they hit the shelves and took 80% market share.
    
    So what is going on?
    
    as things stand today:
    
    Those original versions of Sudafed and other medicines remain available without a prescription, but they’re less popular and account for about one-fifth of the $2.2 billion market for oral decongestants. Phenylephrine versions — sometimes labeled “PE” on packaging — make up the rest.
    
    If the FDA follows through on the panel’s recommendations, Johnson & Johnson, Bayer and other drugmakers could be required to pull their oral medications containing phenylephrine from store shelves. That would likely force consumers to switch to the behind-the-counter pseudoephedrine products or to phenylephrine-based nasal sprays and drops.
    
    In that scenario, the FDA would have to work with drugstores, pharmacists and other health providers to educate consumers about the remaining options for treating congestion, panelists said Tuesday.
    
    and if the FDA panel is suddenly pushing it “unanimously” and the AP marketing wire is reporting it, you should be looking for how the fix is going in. because this fact pattern looks suspicious.
    
    because this has been an issue since day 1 and the “studies” used to allow the substitution were always junk.
    
    So why would this suddenly be a problem? What’s the scam going on here?
    
    and so, here is my wager:
    
    regardless of whether this is “oh, we just assumed that this weaksauce substitution was OK cuz antique studies” vs “we always new this was junk but wanted to prop up a $2 billion product category” we’re now into “hey, we’ve decided to notice and maybe take action.”
    
    wanna bet there is a new something, something oh, say, on patent that someone wants to replace it with?
    
    something that could be incredibly profitable for someone as it instantly replaces phenylephrine across the nation?
    
    by mandate?
    
    As we’ve found out during covid:
    
    if you want to chase your tail, follow “the science™.”
    
    if you want know what’s really going on, follow the money.
    
    https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/decongesting-the-ingredient-lists
    
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    September 19, 2023 11:22am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Yes. Been following this too.
      Incidently we carry phesudoetherdrine in nasal spray form as per our medical scales.
      Best drug avaiable.
      Have you seen video of MP Andrew Bridgen comparing the vaccine to thalimide.
      Trying too post it but appears too be scrubbed?
      
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      September 19, 2023 11:54am
- Master Mariner
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e3MsLkY6Ow
  
  I have previously made comments along this line and sincerely hope it is wrong.
  
  However the evidence so far is proving me right.
  
  Claim, Is the Covid “Vaccine” going to be the new Thalidomide scandal of the 60/70’s.
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:39am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Master Mariner – it is going to overshadow Thalidomide by a very, very long way. It’s just starting to fall apart.
    
    In NZ? Pretend nothing happened and get your booster!!! Astonishing.
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:47am
Matt Long

More than 74% of Religious US college say they’re straight, more than 45% of atheist/agnostic students say they’re not.
Looks like atheism is the long sought after gay gene.
https://twitter.com/BradWilcoxIFS/status/1703831669071831438
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September 19, 2023 8:07am
- slightlyrighty
  
  https://youtu.be/mMBzfUj5zsg?si=slkXqFmxNqD0-WEn
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:10am
  - Matt Long
    
    Bill Maher, the percentage of gays doubles every generation.
    He’s pretty funny.
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:24am
- Swifty
  
  Or, religion forces people to be not themselves.
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:21am
  - graham
    
    Not at all. There is a wide range of views within the church, from those who do not accept LGBT people to those that have ordained priests and even bishops who are homosexual.
    
    If someone who is gay wishes to be involved in the church, it wouldn’t be that difficult to find one.
    
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    September 19, 2023 9:30am
    - Swifty
      
      You’re quite right graham I’m sure and especially in the NZ Christian context.
      
      I wrote my bit somewhat cheekily and had religious types in Pakistan or Saudi in mind at the time.
      
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      September 19, 2023 10:22am
  - Matt Long
    
    I know, right. What about authentic self expression?
    Right now we could be practicing the whole gamut of sexual behaviours, incest, beastiality, cannibalistic fetishism, plus theft, slavery, war torture without a trace of guilt if it wasn’t for those religious bigots.
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:50am
- Che Guava
  
  Atheism appeals to people who want to be free to be degenerate. Nobody alive is here due to any choices they have made themselves, so I don’t know why they think they’d be free to make any choice they like once they’re here. In fact, what does it even mean for an atheist to talk about freedom, because freedom isn’t a feature of the completely materialistic and mechanically determined world they posit.
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:51am
  - Rusty
    
    @Che..
    
    Jacinda Ardern was a religious girl growing up in the mormon church until she decided to become an atheist because her church didn’t like gays.
    
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    September 19, 2023 9:18am
    - Che Guava
      
      I doubt they didn’t like gays as such, they probably just disagreed with the behaviour of gays. This is my position. I don’t hate anyone, but a recognise that there is a natural order and a right and wrong. To say that X is right just because someone (or several people) want to do X is a recipe for disaster. If nothing else, humanity would die out in a few generations if everyone decided that it was OK to be gay.
      
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      September 19, 2023 10:51am
      - Master Mariner
        
        An interesting experiment was the Utopia 25.
        Sorry on phone but seems exactly what is going on now.
        Human nature fascinates me.
        
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        September 19, 2023 1:20pm
  - Damocles11
    
    “I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
    
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    September 19, 2023 9:20am
    - Che Guava
      
      Atheists only require one miracle to get things going, then they’re good after that.
      
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      September 19, 2023 10:38am
    - Che Guava
      
      I’m a Christian, but I am also attracted to the notion of the perennial philosophy (philosophia perennis) which is the idea that all religions are directed at exactly the same thing and the same ultimate Truth, which is a divine Reality or ground of existence. The different religions are different paths towards the same summit, expressed in different terms. The outward exoteric elements differ, but the inward esoteric dimensions converge to a great extent.
      
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      September 19, 2023 10:57am
      - EpsomHB
        
        Yeah I used to think like you. But then I realised I was actually just making up one more religion.
        
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        September 19, 2023 11:50am
      - Che Guava
        
        Atheism is a religion, albeit negative. It worships the No-God, if you will.
        
        While denying the possibility of metaphysics it makes its own metaphysical assumptions (that blind matter is all there is) and places the Self at the centre of everything. It’s hard to know how they explain love and beauty and the full ambit of conscious life and other non-material aspects of reality while positing a purely material world.
        
        As I’ve said, it necessarily must reject the concept of values, yet it claims that freedom and the Self are the highest values. It’s such a vacuous and nihilistic worldview, and it is the exception, not the rule, in the history of Man.
        
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        September 19, 2023 12:10pm
      - Libertarians are right
        
        I can understand this but do you know what this doesn’t have? Explicit rules regarding morality etc. As stated, that’s what I personally have a problem with as, I believe those rules were made by people for secular reasons.
        
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        September 19, 2023 12:39pm
      - Matt Long
        
        Interesting because Chesterton wrote about the opposite view, that the ceremonies and outward show of religions are very similar, but the inward parts are completely at odds.
        
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        September 19, 2023 12:47pm
      - Che Guava
        
        It’s not so obvious that you’re thinking at all. The referent of religious doctrines is not the same thing as the doctrines themselves. The idea is that the Absolute (aka God, Brahman, Allah etc.) is the same thing no matter what name you give it. It would be completely indifferent to there being no doctrines at all that refer to it or if there was no attempt made to understand it.
        
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        September 19, 2023 3:01pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Dude, you’re making some pretty big assumptions there.
    Considering the volume of evil that has been done in the name of religion (and with religion used as an excuse), atheism makes sense for a lot of people.
    Also, don’t assume that just because you pass off responsibility for your morality to people born hundreds of years ago that other people’s self determined morality is less. For a lot of people, morality is a life long journey, a thing of true value as opposed to something they just read in a book.
    I personally believe that trying to enforce your personal version of morality (even if it’s the same as millions of other people who read the same book) on other people is inherently immoral. But that’s just my personal belief.
    
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    September 19, 2023 9:40am
    - Che Guava
      
      That is indeed just you’re personal belief, because to posit values and morals in an purely material world is contradictory. It’s unclear how an atheist who denies the transcendent can also make moral claims when we’re supposedly all just clumps of atoms in a void and without any inherent meaning.
      
      I don’t deny that religious people commit sins regardless of their religiosity. That’s a strawman. Humans are imperfect and are prone to committing sins due to their imperfections. Everyone knows this, and it is in fact why ethical behaviour is a virtue to strive for, in spite of our will to do otherwise. This is exactly what gives morality and free will their significance. If everyone could be perfectly moral, then morality means nothing. I’m not sure how this fact is supposed to negate belief in the transcendent.
      
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      September 19, 2023 10:41am
      - Libertarians are right
        
        It’s not a strawman. There are literally millions of people that have been put off religion because of the wrongs done in the name of religion – I was simply stating a fact as to why many atheists exist. Especially gay people etc who are often badly mistreated by religion.
        
        I will happily admit that the template for my morality comes from standard Western Christian teachings but the idea that morality is only a thing if you believe in a reward/punishment for morality defeats the entire idea of morality. Are you truly a moral person if your acts of morality are simply followed a prescribed path to a reward – even if it is a difficult path? You’re not talking about morality, you’re talking about rules.
        
        I understand your question: why would someone care about morality if there was no true cost to not acting in a moral way but that’s the thing about morality – it’s a personal code of what you will/won’t do.
        
        It’s incredibly arrogant to believe that just because someone believes they only have a singular existence that morality for that person would hold no value.
        
        My morality to me is the sum of my character, it is who I am. To say it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t have the same end game as yours is extremely close minded and dishonest.
        
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        September 19, 2023 1:02pm
      - Che Guava
        
        The issue is that, you can’t coherently have a personal morality (no matter the content), without accepting that there is an aspect to the world that is immaterial (i.e. that is not material). Materialism seems to be implicit in an atheists worldview. Atheists don’t seem to understand this – they want morality, but they don’t accept the necessary condition for it. It all has to be just arbitrary subjective personal opinion to them.
        
        It is possible in principle to argue about what is right and what is wrong, but if you don’t believe in a world with knowable values built into its fabric, you’re just making noises when you talk of right and wrong.
        
        It shouldn’t make a difference to a materialist if I punch them in the face or if I don’t – it’s just matter interacting with other matter in a completely deterministic fashion. In that case, who cares about anything?
        
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        September 19, 2023 3:09pm
      - Libertarians are right
        
        Che – I think you make the mistake that you think Atheists are inherently nihilists. Most atheists believe life is it’s own reason (i.e. the point of life is to live).
        
        A focus on this life does not mean you focus only on materialism. It’s entirely reasonable for an atheist to focus on their personal affect on the world around them etc.
        
        Just because you’re not being rewarded for your interactions with other people doesn’t mean you don’t personally find value in it. Morals are simply the framework within which you interact with those around you.
        
        As for right and wrong – one’s personal morals are what guides their interpretation. It’s fundamental to who they are.
        
        Again, atheism does not equal nihilism. You can believe life has value and meaning while also not believing in something bigger.
        
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        September 19, 2023 4:39pm
      - Dave
        
        From Libertarians are right @4.19:
        
        Morals are simply the framework within which you interact with those around you.
        
        This, in a nutshell, is secular morality.
        
        We can see in social animals such as mongeese, lions, wolves, and eusocial insects such as bees, ants, a sort of proto-morality which regulates kin-group behaviour and has been honed by evolutionary forces over 1000s of generations.
        
        Humans too are social animals honed by evolution, but in our case rationalised and extended by conscious thought: for the ordinary person, socially cooperative behaviour is more productive and beneficial than the alternatives.
        
        There probably are no transcendent values dictated by the deity of your choice, merely human values. If there are transcendent values, we can still ask how we know these values are the right values; as Plato argued more than 300 years before Christ, ‘Because the gods say so’ is an inadequate answer.
        
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        September 19, 2023 8:37pm
    - Taieri
      
      Considering the volume of evil that has been done in the name of religion (and with religion used as an excuse), atheism makes sense for a lot of people.
      ———–
      
      Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot…ale very religious…
      
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      September 19, 2023 6:22pm
  - Swifty
    
    I for one revel in my degeneracy.
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:23am
    - Che Guava
      
      Keep telling yourself that. It’s much easier to have no or low standards than it is try and be better and to transcendent yourself. That’s what makes it so appealing to shallow thinkers, but the bill always falls due. Any fool can do the former, but it takes real character to do the latter.
      
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      September 19, 2023 12:03pm
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        Like the thread Che, best intelligent one for a while. Thanks and keep up the fine work.
        
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        September 19, 2023 1:16pm
      - Swifty
        
        Hahahahahahhaha!
        
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        September 19, 2023 2:43pm
      - Che Guava
        
        I’ll have to assume that you are not a facetious ironic atheistic nihilist, and thank you for your kind endorsement.
        
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        September 19, 2023 3:14pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I haven’t been Christened, and I am not a man of faith.
    Must make me a Heathen.
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:57am
    - Ghost
      
      I usually find the religious folk are very judgmental, they should focus on their own lives instead of others
      
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      September 19, 2023 12:09pm
      - Che Guava
        
        “I usually find the religious folk are very judgmental, they should focus on their own lives instead of others.”
        
        Of course we are judgmental, because we think it is ludicrous to claim that there is no standard with which to judge. People do right and they do wrong, and they are right and wrong in terms of truth-claims. On the other hand, atheists will tell me I’m wrong in my view, but implicit in this claim (i.e. judgment) is the idea that there even is such a standard by which to judge. You cannot make value judgments if nothing matters (how could you?), which is what atheists must believe if they are to be consistent.
        
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        September 19, 2023 12:19pm
      - Matt Long
        
        I agree, I have found religious people are judgemental. They’re nearly up there with atheists and trans activists.
        That may be why Jesus said to take the plank out of our own eye before attempting to remove the splinter from our neighbour’s.
        
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        September 19, 2023 12:44pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Yes Ghost. I do not like lectures from the god botherers who think they are special. They are not!
        Perfect example, Julian Batchelor. I get on with him just fine. I like the man.
        
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        September 19, 2023 3:37pm
      - Ghost
        
        Yeah. I’ve had very religious friends that I’ve been friends with since primary school. Never once have they brought their belief system up, they understand that their belief is a personal relationship they have, they don’t preach or force it’s on anyone else or think they have a right to push it on others.
        
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        September 19, 2023 3:47pm
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  Percentages would be more interesting the other way round – what % of gay students are atheist, what % of straight students are religious. Finding yourself to be gay and turning away from religion as a result seems a more likely causation than not believing in God and becoming gay as a result
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:00am
- NothingLeft
  
  It’s social contagion – large percentages of young women are now claiming bisexuality (note little change in lesbian or gay percentages) for fashion reasons to give them clout with their peers.
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:34am
  - Damocles11
    
    The Kinsey Scale is a real thing. Human sexuality exists on a continuum. I know people like everything to be in neat compartmentalised boxes, but unfortunately the real world isn’t like that. If people who are to some degree bisexual – even if content to live as heterosexual for the purposes of an orderly existence – are told they are actually gay & must take someone of their own sex as a partner, there are going to be an awful lot of ‘new’ gay people out there. If every boy that is not as masculine as his peers is told he is gay or a female trapped in a boys body, we will see an awful lot of societal damage. And in fact, we are seeing it. Both Right and Left are going to cause immense damage when they meddle in a human beings private affairs.
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:16am
    - Matt Long
      
      Kinsey was unfortunately a similar deviant to the guy that started the born in the wrong body idea.
      The one who sterilised a twin boy for his theories and tried to get him to engage in sex with his brother.
      
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      September 19, 2023 1:13pm
    - Damocles11
      
      A persons political viewpoint exists on a continuum as well. On the right of things, you can be right of centre but more economically right wing than socially conservative, you can be a social conservative who is less of an economic right winger, and you can be both. It has to be a broad church, because ‘strength in numbers’. It’s either that or get crushed by the Left.
      
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      September 19, 2023 3:02pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    LULUs.
    
    Lesbians until leaving University
    
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    September 19, 2023 7:14pm
Bridgenag

Such an important speech so I will nag.

“There have been two waves of injury to the world. The first has been the SARS-CoV-2 infection, which preyed upon the frail and the elderly. And the second wave of injury now has been the COVID-19 vaccines.”

One explanation for the two waves is the phenomenon of ‘spikeopathy’, as elucidated in a recently published peer-reviewed article in the journal Biomedicines, titled ‘Spikeopathy’: COVID-19 Spike Protein Is Pathogenic, from Both Virus and Vaccine mRNA. ‘Spikeopathy’ refers to the toxic effects of the spike protein, whether confered by the SARS-CoV-2 virus, or produced by gene codes in mRNA and adenovector DNA vaccines.
The kicker is that the mRNA vaccines also introduce lipid nanoparticles (LNPs) to the body, which themselves are inflammatory, and which ferry spike-producing mRNA to parts of the body that the viral spike protein does not normally end up.
Dr McCullough has previously suggested that taking Covid ‘vaccinations’ increases risk of harm by increasing spike exposure. He suggests limiting spike exposure by avoiding the shots and using nasal washes as a prophylactic.

https://rumble.com/v3hwcgm-dr.-mcculloughs-speech-at-the-european-parliament.html

Dr. McCullough’s Speech at the European Parliament
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September 19, 2023 8:10am
Benedict Yu

I normally would not share the thoughts of Julie Anne Genter. However this is so startling, I could not help myself. I’ll let the words speak for themselves. Read them carefully.

https://twitter.com/JulieAnneGenter/status/1702884715680895141?t=JLYVioYL-8EFp2g50cnNWg&s=19

“Literally the work of feeding/sheltering/ caring for humans so we can all take climate action & restore nature is all we need to be doing right now.

Doing anything else is a distraction.

We are the economy and we can work for life.”
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September 19, 2023 8:10am
- Blackbob
  
  As if our local nutjobs aren’t enough…
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:14am
- Cassandra
  
  She wants us all to live on kibbutz? It’s Yom Kippur soon, an opportunity to reflect on this. Or perhaps she’s just daft.
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:18am
  - OlderChas
    
    Isn’t another of her party wanting war against Israel? Another of the imported green MPs I believe. Maybe the kibbutz for JAG would need to be in any country but? //
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:05am
  - kowtow
    
    Kibbutz ? Surely not .
    They make the desert bloom and are agricultural providers .
    
    A true Green would have us all living in caves . Now that would “restore nature”.
    Not sure how they’d manage the overcrowding though.
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:25am
    - Ehlana
      
      Overcrowding is only a problem until lack of food sorts it out kowtow.
      
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      September 19, 2023 1:04pm
    - Master Mariner
      
      Kubbitz’s also manufacture arm’s.
      Could see JAG manufacturing a Uzi. //
      Similar thing happened with the Gulag system.
      Andropov and planes and kalashnokov and guns were a product of the Gulag system i believe?
      
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      September 19, 2023 1:46pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  GAG, please do.
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:40am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Arbeit macht frei
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:41am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Who said that Germans don’t have a sense of humour
    
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    September 19, 2023 7:17pm
- Gravelroad
  
  “Restore nature”?
  What does the Green Party know about restoring nature?
  Sure, they can talk, and tell and demand, but do they actually do anything practical anywhere?
  No.
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:42am
- imalwaysright
  
  “Thoughts ” is being kind.
  
  “Random interneuron electrical impulses” would be more accurate.
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:46am
- rouppe
  
  “Literally the work of feeding/sheltering/caring for humans ~~so we can all take~~ is the cause of climate change ~~action & restore nature is all we need to be doing~~ right now
  
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  September 19, 2023 11:41am
Ipanema69

Anyone get the feeling that the fight has gone out of Chippy?
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September 19, 2023 8:18am
- Dougal10
  
  The media has built him up to be a master debater , can someone of the million expected viewers tonight report if he is .
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:10am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    All he does is whine in the house, but Hosking did some homework of Friday, Luxon is skiting up Hipkins as a master bater, but what did he find, when he looked at Luxons school debating champion, who was the top with honours, one CL Luxon
    
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    September 19, 2023 9:17am
  - Paulus
    
    And not watch Shortland Street – It is real fiction too !
    
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    September 19, 2023 1:34pm
- hullkiwi
  
  If you heard Robertson last night on HDPA last night, you were left with the overwhelming feeling that he has signed off, and he does not give a f**K!
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:28am
- lifesgood
  
  He sounded like he’s given up on Hosking today. Even admitted their polls are terrible.
  
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  September 19, 2023 10:17am
- Scooter
  
  And Grant, who was quite snippity with Heather, in fact like Cindy with previous interviews with Mike Hosking kept saying the interviewers name when answering. Maybe they think it’s some sort of psychological play/advantage they can have over the interviewer.
  
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  September 19, 2023 10:32am
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/132964218/at-long-last–the-motocompo-is-back
Unfortunately they haven’t mentioned the tow rating…
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September 19, 2023 8:20am
- Matt Long
  
  I like the Ego version better, my little one is going to learn to ride on a lawnmower powered bike.
  https://egopowerplus.com/power-plus-mini-bike-mb1505/
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:48am
Maggie Pie

A while back we thought about installing ‘Solar Panels’ to heat the pool.
But after arranging to get 3D modelling done we could see it would look soo ugly on the north side of the roof we decided to stick with the gas.

Interesting though, the initial quote came in @52k + gst. (AND we had to pay seperately for scaffold hire).
So the 4k from Chippy woudn’t have even paid the gst 🙁
What a joke!!
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September 19, 2023 8:23am
- greybeard
  
  Chippy will soon amend his statement to claim that he meant solar systems just for pre-heating water, not the full-blown solar panels/batteries systems.
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:26am
  - RoboRob
    
    As a solar water heater user, can safetly say it is the easiest and cheapest ways to get many of the advantages of solar pv. Heating water is a large chunk of your power bill and the hot water cyl acts as a battery. From memory my solar cost about ~3500 incl a new hot water cyl ~10yrs ago. More than paid for itself.
    
    Not much use during winter though 🙂
    
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    September 19, 2023 8:56am
    - rockape
      
      Did the same when I built new. Did a spread sheet on it and with 4 adults in a 300 sq meter properly in SI the solar hot water dropped my bills by about 30%. Fitting 4.5 kv panels for electricity has now halved that. We have elderly parents living with us who run a heat pump most days.
      
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      September 19, 2023 9:41am
      - RoboRob
        
        I’m in Christchurch. Four people (18 and 16yr old children). Power bills in summer between $60 and $100. Doesn’t take long to pay off.
        
        If we were at home more would consider non battery backed solar. At the moment not sure if its worth it.
        
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        September 19, 2023 10:09am
    - Local Miller
      
      I spend on average about $60 a month on gas to heat water for bath, shower, washing machine and dish washing for 2 of us. Over 10 years at the current rate ~ $7,200.
      I doubt putting in solar water heating at today’s prices would save me much if anything.
      
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      September 19, 2023 12:08pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  What they also do not tell you is that unless they are facing north they are not 100% efficient so with every degree away from north the cost benefit ratio changes to more cost less benefit.
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:27am
  - rockape
    
    Even due North, unless the panels follow the sun round it’s very much a bell curve of power production.
    
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    September 19, 2023 12:33pm
Simon

Larry Fink, CEO of investment firm BlackRock, is facing backlash over a 2017 comment admitting his company would “force behaviors” on inclusion efforts, amid a rise in pushback against companies making environmental, social and corporate governance (ESG) investments on behalf of everyday Americans.

“You have to force behaviors. If you don’t force behaviors, whether it’s gender or race or just any way you want to say the composition of your team, you’re going to be impacted. That not just recruiting, it’s development,” Fink said. “We’re gonna have to force change.”

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/blackrock-ceo-slammed-force-behaviors-dei-initiatives

These Black Rock turds right at home with Wellington Clown World.
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September 19, 2023 8:26am
Matt Long

LGBT+ “betrayed by Islamic enclave in the US banning rainbow flag. It’s very confusing to find Islamic people are Islamic.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/lgbtq-community-felt-betrayal-muslim-council-voting-remove-pride-flags-city-buildings
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September 19, 2023 8:28am
- Damocles11
  
  Why would LBGT+ left wingers automatically assume Islamists would support them? Because they are deluded.
  The Left are the prisoners of their own delusions, but despite their constant failures and set-backs, they continue to doggedly follow the Left wing credo. ‘A confederacy of dunces.’
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:36am
  - RoboRob
    
    The love for Islamists from the left is baffling. One would have thought that a religion that is controlling of woman and outright hates homosexuality would be the antithesis of the ‘progressive’ movement.
    
    Really goes to show how little actual thought the left puts into things.
    
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    September 19, 2023 9:05am
    - Damocles11
      
      Islamists are usually not Anglo-Saxon. There’s your answer.
      
      13 1
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      September 19, 2023 9:27am
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      Yes, there are few things more ridiculous than Islam-loving progressives. Islam is possibly the most conservative force on the planet. Houellebecq’s novel “Submission” has an interesting angle on Islam and the West, imagining France under sharia law. Some French conservatives eventually decide Islam isn’t such a bad idea.
      
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      September 19, 2023 10:25am
- Notsofast
  
  Between the devil and the deep blue sea.
  Two opposing cults lol.
  Confusing from the young women in the media.
  
  15 1
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  September 19, 2023 8:51am
- Che Guava
  
  Muslims are some of the only people talking any sense on most social issues.
  
  9 9
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  September 19, 2023 8:59am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Correct Che
    
    Here is an example
    
    https://ifamnews.com/en/muslims-in-canada-plan-million-person-march-to-protest-lgbt-ideology-in-schools
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:34am
oldpark

Quote of the day by Hipkins.” He is taking a laid back attitude to the Television Debate “.

More like running scared in a world of it is only make believe as he does the dance of the desperate .
He knows that after Six years of crucifying NZs Citizens and economy as he aided and abetted a person who has run away afraid to show .
It is a great mystery why he didn’t do the same .
That person was big on NZs ‘Democracy Change” once more Hipkins as her lieutenant was more than happy to mirror that ideology .Shutting down much needed Oil and Gas exploration without any debate or input at all. Climate Change propaganda took over. All other considerations beside Racism and Climate Change became forgotten or also rans’
What a terrible indictment by Ardern /Hipkins how the both of them attacked daily hard earned NZs Democracy in favour of Communism /Socialism .
NZs at this time need A “Government Change” much more important than other ideology Labour/Green/Maori Party./CTU changes.
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September 19, 2023 8:30am
- RoboRob
  
  I love how most of the media has been talking up Hipkins debating skills and acting as though he will wipe the floor with Luxon. Since when was Hipkins a skilled debater or orator?
  
  They think they are hurting Luxon but in reality, they are helping National. If Luxon bombs that’s ‘ok’ as Chippie is ‘soooo good’. However, if Luxon wins that will be massive. Going in with low expectations really helps National.
  
  Disclaimer; Not sure if any of this matters as how many undecided (or even just non right wing) voters will even watch the debates.
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:10am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Yes and as I said above, Hosking checked Luxons school debating history, and sure enough Luxon wax the chemo, he will also be well skilled at debating being a ceo
    
    6 4
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    September 19, 2023 9:39am
    - peterwn
      
      And he knew how to sell OMO.
      
      4 0
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      September 19, 2023 10:13am
    - Don Beckett
      
      what is ‘wax the chemo’ ?
      
      7 1
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      September 19, 2023 11:01am
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        ‘Wax the chemo’:
        It’s urban slang for a failure to read one’s own writing before hitting “POST COMMENT”.
        
        8 0
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        September 19, 2023 12:09pm
      - greybeard
        
        Hey Mod: I accidentally reported Fuzzysnuggleduck above: please “unreport”. Sorry FSD
        
        [Mod – thanks for the heads up, but don’t worry about it]
        
        6 0
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        September 19, 2023 2:07pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Sorry was the Champ, I did not spell it that way, often when you push post it changes the spelling
      
      2 1
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      September 19, 2023 3:14pm
    - leoj
      
      Oh please!
      Enough of the sycophantic adulation.
      If Luxon is the best that National has, when he becomes PM the country will remain in a miasma.
      He’s gutless. No fire. No fight. No mongrel.
      The country needs way more courage that he has shown.
      
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      September 19, 2023 5:03pm
- Hugh Jarse
  
  “Taking a laid back approach” probably because he will be supported by Much-McKay who won’t allow him to be be challenged. I have no faith in the media to run a fair “debate” on evidence so far this election campaign.
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:10am
  - kevn
    
    Huge… Mutch will wreck this debate. Nothing surer. It’s in her DNA.
    
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    September 19, 2023 9:24am
  - Damocles11
    
    I always think of her as Jessica ‘much maligned’.
    
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    September 19, 2023 9:30am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Chucky
      
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      September 19, 2023 10:52am
  - Paulus
    
    Mutch is the so called adjudicator, or whatever, so you know the result now.
    
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    September 19, 2023 1:39pm
Yabster

If your from Christchurch- the woke idiots at the council are proposing lowering the speed limit- make a submission:

https://letstalk.ccc.govt.nz/saferspeedplan
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September 19, 2023 8:32am
- Inandout
  
  Yab, dear ChCh is becoming another Auckland.
  https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/ten-christchurch-youths-arrested-after-overnight-crime-spree/ar-AA1gUnu0?ocid=mailsignout&cvid=294e84bcb29d46ccbf44ff124bf15119&ei=19
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:06am
- Vinicius
  
  The Chch City Council is over populated with numpties.
  
  20 0
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  September 19, 2023 9:06am
  - Paulus
    
    Why is Christchurch known as the Crime City of New Zealand – not Auckland of Aotearoa.
    
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    September 19, 2023 1:41pm
- RoboRob
  
  Thanks for that. Actually bothered to submit. Heres what I said if anyone else wants to cut and paste it….
  
  The principles are misguided. Yes lowing speeds reduces harm in an accident, but take that to its logical conclusion and cars should be restricted to walking speed to increase survival rates to ~100%. The existing speeds are fine and some, should be increased back to their old speeds. Lowing speeds has major economic and environmental costs. If you are worried about safety, make the roads better.
  
  100% Against further lowering of speeds
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:17am
  - Yabster
    
    I mentioned the same -along with lower productivity and fuel costs- I also mentioned a clean out of woke council staff (prob won’t go down well) and surprisingly the planner they have consulted is driving it- fat consultancy payment on the way- guys name is Matthew Noon from Abley (google him- full of bs) – I also said the end game is to try and get people out of cars.
    
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    September 19, 2023 9:41am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Hit em in the greenies with:
    Also increase car emissions and smog with higher fuel consumption at lower speeds, more time spent idling waiting for other traffic movements, more congestion due to less cars per second passing with safe inter car gapping, and more accel decel for judder bars and other ‘traffic calming’ measures as well as less direct car routing.
    
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    September 19, 2023 9:41am
    - RoboRob
      
      Thats my ‘environmental costs’ 🙂 Couldn’t be arsed writing more. I assume they will ignore these:)
      
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      September 19, 2023 10:11am
  - greybeard
    
    This is interesting. USA but could have happened here as well.
    https://thehometownlawyers.com/blog/first-car-accident-in-the-us/
    
    6 0
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    September 19, 2023 10:32am
- Burtland
  
  the plan is clearly to cause congestion
  … Barbados and Madras going to 30kph will cause grid lock
  idiots
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:17am
  - NothingLeft
    
    A qualification in urban planning should be disqualifying for working in urban planning industry inside of govt – they are all steeped in a culture of anti-convenience and anti-productivity far-left misanthropy
    
    8 0
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    September 19, 2023 10:32am
    - Damocles11
      
      This bloke is one if the four Tauranga commissioners:
      
      Shadrach Rolleston
      Commissioner
      
      ‘Shadrach Rolleston is a consultant planner and policy advisor with expertise in resource management and Māori relationship management and engagement. He is of Māori descent with tribal connections to Ngāti Ranginui, Ngāi Te Rangi, Ngāti Pukenga and affiliations to Te Arawa.
      
      Shad supported his iwi Treaty of Waitangi claims settlement research and negotiations with the Crown, having served on the Ngāti Ranginui Post Settlement Governance Entity as a board member, and iwi property leasing company as a Director. He is a former SmartGrowth Tū Pakari Advisor and co-chair of the Combined Tāngata Whenua Forum, is the current Chair of Arā Rau Tāngata, and is a board member of the Abundant Life Community Trust.’
      
      ——
      
      https://ngaaho.maori.nz/memberProfile.php?mid=106
      
      ‘Shadrach is a cultural town planning contractor and researcher specializing in the assessment and evaluation of Maori cultural values. He is a Massey University undergraduate, and is currently pursuing a PhD through the Planning Department at the University of Auckland. His research is on the assessment and development of Maori principles to urban design in New Zealand. He has worked previously as a research assistant for Landcare Research Limited, policy advisor for the Ministry of Transport and a policy analyst for the Western Bay of Plenty District Council.’
      
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      September 19, 2023 3:08pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        ‘smartgrowth’
        Now there’s an oxymoron.
        
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        September 19, 2023 4:36pm
      - Taieri
        
        Now there’s an oxymoron
        ———–
        
        As is “Maori principles of urban design”.
        
        0 0
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        September 19, 2023 6:38pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        You don’t meet many Shadrachs.
        
        ‘Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, whoah!
        Cast in the fire and they never get burned’
        
        The Twinkle Brothers
        
        Great tune, check it out.
        
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        September 19, 2023 7:29pm
- Damocles11
  
  At least other cities still have an elected council. Mahuta has foisted ‘Commissioners’ on Tauranga, headed by mercenary turn-coat Anne Tolley. They are ramming through all sorts of undemocratic things, and causing traffic chaos. There are probably 5 road cones to every person in Tauranga at the moment.
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:34am
  - kowtow
    
    Dunedin has two Maori appointed representatives on council who can and do vote on council business , even though no one voted for them.
    
    This is contrary to democratic principles and the rule of law.
    
    ‘Mana whenua representatives on the committee Donna Matahaere-Atariki and Marlene McDonald proved to be decisive in today’s result.’
    
    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/dcc/george-st-revamp-mayors-push-design-change-fails
    
    And no one seems to give a shit.
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:35am
  - Paulus
    
    And now Tauranga Road Charges are to be “discussed”, as already factored as usual.
    
    4 0
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    September 19, 2023 1:43pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  All to get people out of cars. Public transport exempt from speed limits?
  
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  September 19, 2023 11:08am
Damocles11

My ideal scenario for Labour this election is that they get such a hiding that it sets them back for donkeys years. I don’t feel, as Sir Bob Jones evidently does, that we must have a ‘strong Labour Party’ in the interests of democracy in this country. We need a weak Labour party that can’t implement it’s corrosive ‘woke’ and democratic socialist agenda….that’s what we need.

With Labour polling at around 28% and that support being no doubt from committed Left wingers, I’d dearly like to see a further 10% fall. I’m hoping many of those Labour voters will be so disillusioned with Labours campaign that they decide, when the polling booths open, to support someone else, & spread their vote around evenly between the Greens, NZ First, Te Pati Maori, and TOP. If each of these parties came in 2.5% higher on election night it won’t change the outcome. But a Labour Party that registers just 18% of the vote at this election will be a broken Labour Party. And that’s what this country needs.
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September 19, 2023 8:32am
- RoboRob
  
  I like Bob however I think he is 100% wrong on his belief that NZ needs a strong Labour party (and I also assume National party).
  
  We need political parties to come and go. The weak will fail to be replaced by a better alternative. If Labour or National fail they will be replaced by other, better alternatives. By bailing Labour out Bob helped a failing party survive, when they should have failed.
  
  Bob bailed out Labour in 2017. They were broke and were close to going under. That, in itself was a sign of their financial incompetence. They then ran the country the way they ran the Labour party, however unlike Labour, the country just keeps on borrowing.
  
  Labour needs to fail this time, so a newer, better left wing party can rise. One that might have new and better ideas.
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:23am
  - Damocles11
    
    It just strikes me that Bob lambasts others as ‘whimps’, yet he weakly goes and gives a life-line to a party that literally wants to wreck and then replace our current system. A part of me will now always think of Bob the same way I think of Winston: as people who put Labour in a position where they could do untold amounts of damage to this country.
    
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    September 19, 2023 9:38am
    - Matt Long
      
      I can’t imagine if there would be any advantage in Labour governments filling Wellington office space with drones by the hectare?
      
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      September 19, 2023 10:32am
      - Damocles11
        
        You’re on to it.
        
        6 0
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        September 19, 2023 11:24am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    I agree. Political parties should be subject to natural selection. If LINO gets utterly trashed this election, maybe the medium-term result will be a proper social democrat party that focuses on restoring equality of opportunity instead of trying to force false equalities of outcome.
    
    But then we could think similar thoughts about the Nats. Some of us would like the option of voting for an actual Conservative party.
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:30am
    - hullkiwi
      
      A real Conservative Party, if you find one please let us know. Because even the UK Tories are a very pale & shabby blue these days.
      
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      September 19, 2023 3:02pm
  - rockape
    
    As I have said before the future post 2029 is ACT , National Green.
    
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    September 19, 2023 12:38pm
  - Kiwiguy
    
    Bob Jones likes Labour because when they’re in office they expand – expanding the existing govt departments, and inventing new (useless) govt departments. These all require new, larger offices, most likely in one of Bob’s many buildings.
    My business also gets a positive spin-off from this. Much as I hate Labour, they’re very good for my business because damn, they sure know how to spend money on themselves – some of which ends up in my pocket.
    
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    September 20, 2023 3:50am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  AWOL for 15 years I hope.
  
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  September 19, 2023 11:09am
- JimBobJoe
  
  Bob Jones has two reasons for wnating a strong Labour:
  
  1/ He believes that National will just manage stuff and not change things – that change is positive and Labour drives that change.
  
  Which is an arguable position to take. And may have had some validity up to 1990…. But Clark and Ardern have shown that positive change mentality no long exists inside Labour – they are a destructive force…
  
  2/ Bob Jones also likes Labour because they drive increases in Central Government staff numbers – who all need office space. And Bob supplies office space!
  
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  September 19, 2023 2:50pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    I see. So Bob Jones enabled the mess we had over the past three years.
    Thanks Bob!
    
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    September 19, 2023 4:34pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  If Labour disappears, their voters won’t. It’s as likely that more Woke versions of the Greens or the Maori Party will emerge as not. Perhaps a Big Brother Party, sponsored by Black Rock?
  
  Be careful what you wish for.
  
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  September 19, 2023 7:32pm
Cantabrian

Someone tell me how roof top panels work in the new 3/6 storey apartment buildings we are being forced to accept? Or a 26 level tower block? Aren’t single storey bungalows so last century?
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September 19, 2023 8:33am
- NothingLeft
  
  In a rational world we would only install solar panels where it was cheapest to do so – in grid scale installs on cheap lands with costs ~$1100/kW, or possibly at 100+kW scale on farms to make use of existing transformers.
  
  But electricity distribution is so expensive (60-70% of cost of electricity), that it is borderline worth it to have pv on your roof. The economics of that are also likely to improve with EV cars and cheaper power-wall style batteries to allow us to get off-grid altogether and avoid the connection fees.
  
  What the world really needs is some innovation to make it cheap to do pv roof installs.
  
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  September 19, 2023 10:43am
Fisiani2

Voting starts in just 11 days do your best to change the government by campaigning daily
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September 19, 2023 8:39am
Maggie Pie

“I’m happy to look into it”

– Prime Min. Chris Hipkins

https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/09/18/labour-candidate-railed-against-hpv-vaccine-on-social-media/
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September 19, 2023 8:40am
- Damocles11
  
  Just prior to that he was intimating that Luxon should give the flouride guy the boot. He should change his surname from ‘Hipkins’ to ‘Hypocrite’.
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:11am
  - kowtow
    
    Massive headline in the Ferald about Nat selection and fluoride guy .
    Tiny sentence in same story about labour hpv guy.
    
    11 0
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    September 19, 2023 10:39am
    - rockape
      
      The np guy is a girl and Damien O Connors replacement in Westcoast Tasman.
      
      6 0
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      September 19, 2023 1:39pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Yep, but yesterday Nats weee hypocrites, not much said now, at least the smearing will stop on that issue
  
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  September 19, 2023 10:10am
Maggy Wassilieff

FFS

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/498277/albany-bus-station-homicide-investigation-police-arrest-and-charge-16-year-old

I can guess where this charge ends up.
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September 19, 2023 8:43am
- Blog-aholic
  
  No doubt they will be able to vote while on home D.
  
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  September 19, 2023 8:53am
I remember when

Does anyone else have a niggling feeling that perhaps the Greens may have a number of ‘conspiracy theorists’in their candidates.
Obviously the media don’t find it necessary to do the research to find out who they are.

Fluoride would seem to be a 100% certainty.

Still as long as the Nats had one in Hamilton that fills the bill.
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September 19, 2023 8:44am
- RoboRob
  
  It always amazes me how little inspection the meia gives to the Greens and Maori parties. Remember COVID when the government were all ‘everyone must get vaxed’. No one ever asked the Greens how many (if any) of their members were vaxed. I suspect well less than 50%. But that would have been a bad look so the media just never asked.
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:26am
  - Ruahine
    
    Media told not to ask.
    
    4 0
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    September 19, 2023 10:10am
  - Blog-aholic
    
    Two words for you that are ignored:
    
    Waiparera
    
    and
    
    Trust……..
    
    7 0
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    September 19, 2023 10:34am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Green and Maori support is mostly women under 50. (about 3x other demographic groups) They are fashion-following sheep mainlining whatever the Current Thing™ is, like straw or bag bans or racist DEI policies, or literally in the case of covid vax. Note that in 2017 all of Ardern’s boost to Labour came from Greens (ie predominantly young female fashion victims)
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:49am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  I thought their policy was anti Fluoride?
  
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  September 19, 2023 10:12am
Scooter

Is “isolated incident” the new buzzword for gang related crime? Media full on minimising any gang/Maori involvement.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/albany-bus-station-homicide-attacker-still-on-the-loose-after-bloody-slaying/
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September 19, 2023 8:47am
- Rusty
  
  @Scooter,
  
  Why do the police have to be tell us after a murder crime has been committed that its an isolated incident when the murderer is still on the loose — how do they know that scum won’t murder again?
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:08am
  - Ghost
    
    He was caught, 16 year old.
    
    11 0
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    September 19, 2023 9:14am
    - Rusty
      
      @Ghost,
      
      Yes I heard that news before I posted. I am talking in general.
      
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      September 19, 2023 10:28am
    - sirknz
      
      Not at the time the ‘incident’ occurred. He was found in Hamilton on Monday night, I’m picking closer to midnight than dinner time.
      
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      September 19, 2023 10:53am
  - rouppe
    
    Because they would have quickly established that the victim and offender were known to each other, and there was a specific history leading to the confrontation.
    
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    September 19, 2023 12:39pm
- kowtow
  
  yep , the police are in full on disinformation mode , describing all these incidents as “isolated” .
  
  How many “isolated” incidents does it take to make an obvious crime “emergency”.
  
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  September 19, 2023 10:44am
Maggy Wassilieff

I rather doubt that I will notice any great difference in the months to come….. I usually only watch TVNZ for about 15 minutes at 6pm.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/tvnz-tightens-its-belt-amid-advertising-revenue-slump-cuts-pay-rises-programmes/JS3EQJ7UANG4BGKJHVSP43A2YY/#:~:text=TVNZ%20is%20planning%20significant%20cuts,at%20the%20state%2Downed%20broadcaster.
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September 19, 2023 8:57am
- cas
  
  I’ve found a way to minimise the news, usually watching 3. Record and then an hour later fast forward over the tedious opinions of political journos etc. Stop at any funny animal stories and sport , only watch the weather as it relates to your region and hey presto you have 15 minutes of news.
  
  On another front, having experienced a lenghty period visiting someone in hospital, can I suggest if others are in the same boat you take some biscuits etc to thank the staff who go out of their way to make patients’ lives bearable, even when they are under the pump. Bad nutrition I know but sometimes it’s all they have time for for lunch.
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:08am
  - Yabster
    
    I do the same- except I record Prime (now sky first at 5.30)- 30 minutes less ads – watch the lot in about 15 mins and no time for lengthly bs.
    
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    September 19, 2023 9:44am
  - Biscuit
    
    cas, my late Dad was forever in and out of Emergency in his later years.
    
    One time in question as Easter.
    
    I brought in a couple of those marshmellow (Spelling? Marshmallow?) chocolate egg trays for the staff and they all almost wept at someone thinking enough of them to do that.
    
    Small gestures, I almost always find, are the most-appreciated gestures, especially if the recipient realises that forethought had gone into things!
    
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    September 19, 2023 12:10pm
- Vinicius
  
  Don’t watch 1News or the other hopeless mob at 6pm and haven’t done so for 20 years. Nor do I watch anything else on TVNZ.
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:24am
- Ghost
  
  I wonder how much of this was caused by uncertainty with Willy Jackson’s merger.
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:35am
- Ruahine
  
  I only ever watch the Weather. I really like Maori Weather. Dan doing his Maori by numbers is something to behold.
  
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  September 19, 2023 10:12am
  - Biscuit
    
    Ruahine, Dan is forever telling me ‘Coming up, what things are looking like for your place’ … but the b*gger has never EVER mentioned my town, Upper Hutt, let alone my street – and what I get is a blanket forecast for the 8000 sq. km. that encompasses the Greater Wellington area.
    
    About as useful to me as mammaries are on a male bovine.
    
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    September 19, 2023 12:17pm
Inandout

Does the guy on the Property Brokers ad not realise Maori language week is over?
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September 19, 2023 9:00am
Ghost

Ummm , seriously, have you not been watching Biden for the past few years, shit

Regardless of the reason for the pause, imagine if Biden had abruptly stopped a speech midway through and began looking around the audience for more than half a minute? Much of the media — and I don’t mean just right-wing outlets — would likely ask if Biden had become confused or had fallen ill, or if the teleprompter stopped working and he wasn’t mentally able to fill the time? Such a clip of Biden would probably be played nonstop on cable news and dissected by pundits and even doctors specializing in cognitive issues.

Article
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September 19, 2023 9:03am
- septic skeptic
  
  Of course Trump is too old to be president, Biden even more so. They might as well dig up Abraham Lincoln and use Weekend at Bernie’s as a blueprint for the presidency.
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:39am
  - Lance
    
    There was a running gag in Whoops Apocalypse where Brezhnev kept dying of old age, and while no one was looking, a secret panel in the wall would open and they would wheel out another one and carry on as if nothing had happened.
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:13am
  - Inandout
    
    ss, Bernie is too old as well.
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:37am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Trump will win in a landslide as long as the Dems can’t cheat.
    
    7 7
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    September 19, 2023 11:15am
    - All_on_Red
      
      He’s going to lose
      No way he wins Georgia, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania
      Do the math
      Sorry
      
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      September 19, 2023 4:32pm
Maggie Pie

You couldn’t make this sh!t up 😎

The hikoi heading from Northand to Parliament OPPOSING Nationals gang policy, is being led by none other than Matilda Kahotea…..the mum of 3 senior Headhunter gang members. She also runs the rehab-house where police seized drugs and firearms last year.

SHEESH!!

https://twitter.com/CranmerWrites/status/1703868810821083294
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September 19, 2023 9:05am
- kevn
  
  Maggie… Good labour supporters. That hipkins would rather avoid.
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:29am
- Ruahine
  
  I wonder if Hipkins will be turning the sprinklers on them.
  
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  September 19, 2023 10:14am
- sirknz
  
  As someone on twitter pointed out, nobody is there at parliament to see them…
  
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  September 19, 2023 10:55am
  - Ehlana
    
    Mmm. If anyone was, do you think they would?
    
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    September 19, 2023 1:43pm
Grunter

I see that the govt funded TVNZ are in the crap. Advertisers bailing out big time. They only do that if viewer numbers are down and/or their woke adverts don’t work.

I predict this is just the start of MSM collapsing. The commercial outfits (eg Stuffed, ODT, NZME) will all be in the same boat. Once the election is over and electioneering spending stops the brickwall of reality will hit them between their woke, corrupt eyes.
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September 19, 2023 9:06am
Damocles11

Academics trying to ‘assist’ with getting Critical Race Theory adopted into our legal framework.

One author is a senior lecturer at the Faculty of Law at the University of Auckland.
The other author is a professional teaching fellow at the University of Auckland’s Faculty of Law, teaching the elective course ‘Pacific Peoples and the Law’.

https://ojs.victoria.ac.nz/counterfutures/article/view/7723

Abstract
‘To respond to the enduring need for a reckoning with racism in New Zealand through legal scholarship and praxis, this article grapples with the question: how can we adopt a Critical Race Theory (CRT) framework that is located within, and appropriate for, the New Zealand context? Our central thesis is that scholars and activists seeking to apply a CRT framework or conduct a CRT analysis in New Zealand should be mindful of the particular circumstances of the settler-colonising state imposed by the Crown. To assist with this mindfulness, we propose five guiding principles for CRT scholarship and praxis in New Zealand, which are all non-prescriptive and subject to critique and further development. To illustrate the usefulness of this framework, we undertake a critical reappraisal of the 1980 Tifaga v Department of Labour case. As we show, it is important to approach this case against the backdrop of the dawn raids and state-fuelled racism against Pacific peoples.’
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September 19, 2023 9:09am
- Taieri
  
  NZ universities are putting a great effort into making themselves irrelevant.
  
  Here is an example from Otago:
  
  https://www.otago.ac.nz/research/maoriconsultation
  
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  September 19, 2023 10:52am
- NothingLeft
  
  There’s someone who desperately needs to be invited to get a real job that contributes something of value to the world rather than academic effluvia and mind-fucking indoctrination of teenagers
  
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  September 19, 2023 10:53am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/just-how-bad-is-the-secret-funding-of-maori-only-initiatives-this-report-tells-all/
This is Alex Hollands post from yesterday on KB
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September 19, 2023 9:24am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  A comment by Mike Low on Alex Holland’s post.
  “That is precisely why I have been asking Luxon to publicly declare that the new government will actively oppose all aspects of co-governance including the reversal of all existing aspects. But Luxon refuses to do this, presumably for fear of upsetting a few non-National voters. This is the most serious issue facing New Zealand at this election, and is the reason I am imploring everyone to give their Party Vote to ACT – in the hope that a strong ACT representation will compel Luxon to do what we all know is
  necessary. But with so many sheep following the Labour incompetents, I have little hope of winning this one.”
  
  Luxons refuses to do this! Hey Luxon and you National Candidates – you are there to Represent US, not the other way round. Do as we ask or step down!
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:33am
  - kowtow
    
    Luxon speaks with forked tongue .
    
    If I’m reading this correctly he actually wants some “co governance” , not even the so called “co management” that Nat apologists were so quick to claim when trying to talk down the co governance fad.
    
    “We just don’t support the co-governance of public services and that is something that has been different from what has happened in say, the previous National government, where there was co-governance in the context of treaty settlements and the management of local natural resources between iwi and also district councils and other stakeholders, and I think that worked incredibly well and I want to see more of that continue.”
    
    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/act-vows-end-co-governance
    
    I’m happy to be corrected .
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:50am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I think he has said this today. Needs to be careful in gaining votes.
      After Oct 14th throw the Co-Governance in the bin and disband the Waitangi Tribunal Act. It is going to take some balls!
      Revolution? This is it. No more Waitangi Tribunal corruption. That is all that has happened since 1975 – corruption. Stop it now!
      
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      September 19, 2023 3:47pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    S.O
    A simple way to begin ridding New Zealand of the curse of the treaty is to remove all references to race in all of our laws and regulations .
    
    Refer to people as citizens or residents.
    
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    September 19, 2023 11:06am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The original written in Maori and translated by Henry Littlewood are fine.
      What Maori don’t realise is Queen Victoria wanted New Zealand to be one people. The British could have just invaded NZ and taken it by force, as they did in other places.
      
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      September 19, 2023 12:13pm
  - rockape
    
    They won’t represent much or achieve much from the opposition benches.
    
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    September 19, 2023 1:07pm
Chuck Bird

Jill Ovens talks Posie Parker and Women’s Suffrage Day

https://theplatform.kiwi/podcasts/episode/jill-ovens-talks-posie-parker-and-women-s-suffrage-day

I heard that the police put a police tranny as a liaison officer for the Posie Parker event and that resulted in the woman not being protected.
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September 19, 2023 9:35am
- Chuck Bird
  
  It mentions how Erica Stanford said she may have stopped Posie Parker for entering NZ.
  
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  September 19, 2023 9:38am
  - Notsofast
    
    You are dead right. I listened in total disbelief. That implies Erica Stanford is in favour of promoting child pronouns, social transitioning and sterilization. It also explains why Nicola Willis is apparently on board. New Zealand is in deep trouble.
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:21am
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      Stanford, Luxon, Willis, Bishop all voted for the dsytopian “Conversion Practices” legislation that criminalizes parents and medical professionals who are reluctant to “affirm” a child’s gender dysphoria. In fact all but 7 of NZ’s current MP’s did – the shining exceptions being Brown, Lee, McClay, O’Connor, Penk, Reti, Woodhouse.
      
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      September 19, 2023 1:00pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        It’s perverse and reverse. “Gay conversion therapy” is banned but actual gay conversion therapy is virtually mandatory. “Transitioning” teenagers is the state sterilisation and medical butchery of gay kids*.
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTZsfk6Ms6s (just listen to the first 1m 40s intro)
        
        *I don’t accept kids can have a gay sexuality before puberty, and even then, for some of them as teenagers such impulses can fade as they enter adulthood.
        
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        September 19, 2023 8:01pm
  - Notsofast
    
    Erica Stanford’s words:
    
    I wouldn’t have wanted to give her any more airtime than she [Keen-Minshull] deserved.”
    
    “I think this is what this all leads to, is the fact that the Greens started it all off by putting it out into the media.
    
    “If she’d come in under the radar, a few people would have turned up, nobody would have known she was here, and she would have gone, and we’d have carried on our tolerant normal ways as we do in New Zealand.”
    
    Disgraceful for a pending minister of education and immigration
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:32am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Yes. It worries me that so many people on the right are falling for Stanford. She’s a business-friendly version of Jacinda Ardern, with 5 points more IQ and better teeth.
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:34am
Chuck Bird

Sports Bet Oz Labour $1.15 and National $5.50.
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September 19, 2023 9:54am
- peterwn
  
  Oops, you got them the wrong way round. Pity they do not have odds for National winning an absolute majority.
  
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  September 19, 2023 10:03am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    How silly of me. The chance of National winning an absolute majority would be about zero. What Labour did is unlikely to be repeated.
    
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    September 19, 2023 10:33am
    - peterwn
      
      Could happen if National gets 46% and Winston 4.9%.
      
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      September 19, 2023 11:53am
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySa89JD6fZM
‘License to fall’: Joe Biden mocked in James Bond parody.
Sky News host Rita Panahi has questioned why the oldest US President is being “treated like a baby” and brought his age into question. Concerns have been raised about US President Joe Biden’s age after a series of his blunders were parodied in a James Bond parody trailer. “We’ve had a glimpse into the … routine the Biden White House has been running with,” Ms Panahi said. “Who is Commander in Chief? Because it ain’t this guy. “Nowadays, his staff don’t even let him finish before they abruptly end a press conference.” [3:21]
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September 19, 2023 9:59am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  That is great at the end. On the stairs the timing with the music.
  
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  September 19, 2023 11:24am
  - sungsamning
    
    I’m glad you liked it.
    
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    September 19, 2023 9:42pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfSOgqcJqIM
Sean Plunket on FACT Aotearoa.

On Friday we got we got it out and there’s more to come on this or in this vein about a group called ‘ the disinformation project’. It s largely Kate Hannah and Sanjay Hadatawa being well known for papers for defamation being filed against him in a district court and TV and Zed fan calling Jillian Bachelo, ‘raycist’ etc. [9:16] (I’m glad this ‘FACT’ crowd only operate in Aoteoroa, and not NZ.)
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September 19, 2023 9:59am
Maggie Pie

“GOD that bloody Jacinda Ardern has very nearly destroyed this once beautiful country
in the last 6 years.”

– my partner’s mum.
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September 19, 2023 10:08am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  And she just walked away. Should be in Jail!
  
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  September 19, 2023 11:26am
- cmm
  
  I don’t think it is fair to peg this all on Cindy.
  
  Rather peg it on the 50% of NZ that support her.
  
  In a democracy the politicians only do the bidding of the voters. Broken voters would vote for the same outcomes every time.
  
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  September 19, 2023 11:31am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Those 50% of fools allowed her to do it.
    The whole plan since 209.
    
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    September 19, 2023 4:38pm
Benedict Yu

The most entertaining Stuff headline ever 😀

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2023/09/18/rugby-world-cup-problem-france-sweaty-balls-handling-errors/
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September 19, 2023 10:12am
- greybeard
  
  I suspect the child-like person writing this did not realise what he/she/it/they had written.
  
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  September 19, 2023 10:57am
kevn

The beginning… long link but no prob and worth the read.
https://rwmalonemd.substack.com/p/promoting-a-cult-for-the-good-of?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=583200&post_id=137149923&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=15bbs6&utm_medium=email
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September 19, 2023 10:13am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The last part of that link can be deleted right back to, and the question mark after good-of
  https://rwmalonemd.substack.com/p/promoting-a-cult-for-the-good-of
  Doesn’t always work though. I check them. All of that rubbish is for tracking and counting hits, so I am told.
  Edit, yep it works.
  
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  September 19, 2023 11:31am
70andstilllearning

satire ? parody? or just a straight forward piss take? You could take your pick really.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/09/election-2023-labour-leader-chris-hipkins-concerned-supermarkets-not-treating-consumers-well.html
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September 19, 2023 10:21am
Biscuit

So, being honourable chaps (and they’re ALL chaps: Aaron Snodgrass, Jonathan Mason, Peter Alexander and Leo Foliaki), the Board of Trusrees at Dilworth School are so appalled at what happened – and may STILL be happening – at their school that they’ve immediately resigned en masse?

Oh, of course not…

I wonder why?:

The school’s 2022 annual report shows that six trustees received $561,875 in remuneration, an average of $93,646 each. Aaron Snodgrass, as chair, is likely to receive more than that. This far exceeds other schools. Auckland Grammar pays, on average, $6,435 per trustee, St Peter’s $11,833 and Kristin School, Diocesan School for Girls and St Cuthbert’s College do not pay their board members.
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September 19, 2023 10:25am
- kowtow
  
  Good thing they’re not Catholic or Brethren , te media pa ahti would be all over it .
  
  As it is they have their hands full holding the Oppositon to account .
  
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  September 19, 2023 10:54am
  - NoFax
    
    If it was a state school I doubt it would even be reported.
    
    7 2
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    September 19, 2023 12:06pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Yeah, nah.
      
      Dilworth, we can only hope, is an outlier. From what’s been reported, nowhere else comes close, not even the St John of God Brothers.
      
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      September 19, 2023 7:44pm
Fisiani2

The debate tonight will swing votes by about 5-10% so it’s crucial to win the debate and to have some cracking one liners to deliver.
Labour have broken so many promises Hipkins needs to turn shit into gold.
Elections are about who can transmit the best message of a better future. That’s what wins votes.
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September 19, 2023 10:25am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Just wait for the lies and McKay not pulling him up on them.
  Is there an audience?
  
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  September 19, 2023 11:43am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Of course. The question then is how many Freedoms NZ supporters have got in on the act.
    
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    September 19, 2023 2:59pm
- Damocles11
  
  I’m waiting for the planted questions from the audience:
  
  “Mr Luxon, why do you want to give unaffordable tax cuts to rich people when you know the numbers don’t add up and it will bankrupt our country?”
  
  “Mr Luxon, I’m a hard-working public servant. Why to you hate people like me and why are you planning savage cuts to public services right before Christmas?”
  
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  September 19, 2023 6:11pm
oldpark

Just been reading that the guy Peters the megalomaniac who was given a life line by Christopher Luxon came out yesterday with his thanks .

His comments that he didn’t think that the Well Deserved and needed Tax cuts of up to $250 per fortnight for families or any Tax Cuts by National was a good idea .

Talk about giving a sucker an even break .The solution to keep out Peters’ from his last chance of Parliamentary disruption should the Nation of NZ be unfortunate to give him their vote .
Lest we forget his earlier track record of deceit with Voters.
Two ticks Blue should take care of that .
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September 19, 2023 10:33am
- ClanMcleod
  
  oldpark – so your comfortable with National’s deceit over covid, which they’ve doubled down on, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that their support of all of Ardern’s policies was not only tyrannical, it was flat out, scientifically, provably wrong?
  
  Or do you think sticking your fingers in your ears, singing ‘lalalalalala’ really loudly and hoping everyone forgets about it is a viable policy?
  
  It certainly looks like it’s Luxon’s main approach to the worst horrors in the country in many, many years. So that level of deceit is acceptable?
  
  I guess each man does have his price.
  
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  September 19, 2023 11:30am
- mogg
  
  I heard Winston speaking last night, love him or loathe him he is no longer a party just for gold card holders. His biggest cheer came from talking about the protest at parliament, many of the big crowd were of ‘protester’ like appearance and age group.
  He went through his usual speel which was interspersed with applause and cheering, another big moment was when he said “this is not Aotearoa it’s New Zealand and we are all equal”
  From the size of the crowd and their enthusiasm I would guess he will be at 7% easily. To make matters worse he is a very accomplished performer and has genuine charisma .
  
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  September 19, 2023 11:54am
  - Terry Dalee
    
    “this is not Aotearoa it’s New Zealand and we are all equal”
    
    But no doubt, some are more equal than others….
    
    Now where is my baubles of office?
    Lets also conveniently forget that I caused this whole mess in the first place…..
    
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    September 19, 2023 2:31pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    If Peters does get into government, I expect my only solace will be watching the hopes of his Covid supporters disappear in a puff of exhaust smoke as Winston jets off on his first overseas jaunt as Minister of whatever it took to buy him off.
    Not saying that a full and frank Covid inquiry is not needed. Just saying that if you think Winston will deliver that for you – well I can’t help you.
    
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    September 19, 2023 2:54pm
    - Damocles11
      
      ‘18/06/2018 — Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters is sticking by his promise to be the first person to re-enter the Pike River mine drift.’
      
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      September 19, 2023 5:04pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Damocles11 – tell me you don’t really want to get into a discussion about ‘politicians who failed to deliver on what they promised pre election’.
        
        Please, don’t go there. 😂
        
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        September 20, 2023 7:03am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      septic septic – I haven’t decided who I’m voting for yet, I’m hoping one of the main opposition parties does the right thing, grows a spine, and speaks out.
      
      I don’t expect anything from Peters if I do vote for him, all I have is hope.
      
      Right now with National and Act I have nothing but concern that come the next ‘pandemic’ we’ll have more of the same except it will be done ‘more efficiently’.
      
      Won’t that be nice? 🤡
      
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      September 20, 2023 6:57am
- mawm
  
  oldpark – those 2 ~~blue~~ purple ticks are looking more like pink to me.
  
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  September 19, 2023 2:57pm
Tauhei Notts

Travellers Tales.
Frequently boring but here goes.
40 year old daughter in Paris reports that she has never seen so many sweaty, smelly, beer sodden, over weight men bellowing out, “Allez Les Bleus.” That is, go the French team. Locals tell her, and her French language skills are very good, that there is more interest in this World Cup than there was when France beat Croatia in the final of the Football World Cup five years ago. So much for all those people who tell us that rugby union is such a minor sport on the world stage. I had been surprised to see when in Russia five years ago that rugby union was the third most popular sport for betting at their state owned betting agency. Third to football and basketball. I thought that ice hockey would have got in there, but no.
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September 19, 2023 10:42am
Jack5

Is the Winston Peters NZ First Party Right wing?

Radio NZ says sit is in a heading on its web site: “Billionaire Graeme Hart’s $700k in donations to right wing parties”

It’s above a report by Farah Hancock, who it describes as “data journalist, in Depth”

Hancock says “National has received $400,000, ACT $200,000 and NZ First $100,000 from Hart and his companies.”

National might pass as slightly to the Right of centre, but NZ First?

Regardless, there’s no question that Radio NZ is Left wing.

Farah Hancock has a page at the “Science Media Centre” web site.

This group is on the State media subsidy list. The Government gave the Maorified, discredited Royal Society of NZ $3.75 million ( that was before GST, the Ministry of Business Industry and Employmen notes) to host the Science Media Centre.

The centre is an information pipeline line to 650 people registered with it as journalists.

Here’s what the MBIE says of the centre’s work:

Each year there are over 3,000 media stories that have direct input from the NZSMC’s activities across a broad range of topics including emerging infectious diseases and pandemics, climate change, food safety, water quality, natural hazards, indigenous data sovereignty, conservation and ecological impacts, social inequality and mental health.

“NZSMC” is, of course, the bureaucrats’ abbreviation for the (New Zealand) Science Media Centre.

At the centre, all Woke topics are covered.

First item in the Science Media Centre’s strategic plan is commitment to the Treaty of Waitangi. This includes:

“We recognise and value the contributions of matauranga Maori, Maori perspectives and expertise to the research, science and innovation sector.

Of course.

https://www.sciencemediacentre.co.nz/wp-content/upload/2023/08/SMC-Strategic-Plan-2023-25.pdf

MBIE on the Science Media Centre:

https://www.mbie.govt.nz/science-and-technology/science-and-innovation/funding-information-and-opportunities/investment-funds/curious-minds/science-media-centre/
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September 19, 2023 10:50am
- NothingLeft
  
  Another quango to stick in the round filing cabinet post election.
  
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  September 19, 2023 12:50pm
BeaB

Aren’t we lucky to have a state radio station eagerly pursuing dismisinformation, especially in the National Party. And look at what they found. A former city councillor who opposed fluoridation and the ban on unvaxed ratepayers entering council premises. Phew. Just as well they intrepidly unearthed his very public social media posts and comments at public meetings.
RNZ is not of course so keen on unmasking Labour though, never asking about the holes in their costings (and their record of financial mismanagement).
They have told us that Michael Wood is yet another of their MPs posting lies about National. I wonder how often he has had to be told to take it down.
Hipkins lamely says National is trying to deflect attention. The man is a moron.
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September 19, 2023 11:02am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  How Many times? 12 seems to be a close number.
  
  8 1
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  September 19, 2023 11:49am
cmm

I see in $1uff that there is a student organisation demanding that students get paid the minimum wage (at least), because they are “working”.

I had the (mis)fortune to speak with one of these about a year ago (he was a recent grad). The conversation went something like this:
Him: Students should not be paying any student fees. They are working. They should be paid minimum wage at least. They should not have to work after hours.

Me: So what about assignments etc?
Him: Ok, assignments are OK, but that is after hours so double pay for doing them.

Me: So who is going to pay for this? You are now earning a salary. Do you want to pay more tax so that the students can have this hand out?
Him: No, the people that are benefiting are companies. They should increase the company tax.

Me: If the company tax goes up, then companies will charge more for their products or won’t be able to pay staff as much.
Him: No, they must take it out of their profits.

Me: Their profits are what are paying your Kiwisaver.
Him: No, they should take it out of the CEOs salary.

Me: I think I’m late for a meeting….
21 1
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September 19, 2023 11:24am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Was he a Political “Science” grad?
  
  7 0
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  September 19, 2023 11:46am
- peterwn
  
  Labour is getting so desperate that Chippie and Robbo might promise a ‘living wage’ for students.
  National is expected to be fiscally responsible.
  But Labour is in such dire straits they might as well promise the kitchen sink then sort out the mess later if they win.
  
  8 0
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  September 19, 2023 11:51am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  What a good little socialist in the making.
  
  10 0
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  September 19, 2023 11:51am
- Ehlana
  
  Actually, the simple answer would be to restructure our post-compulsory education so that all students study part-time while supporting themselves in jobs.
  
  8 0
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  September 19, 2023 2:13pm
- MCōs
  
  Around the time I left school uni students did get paid.
  BTW
  You have a good memory.
  
  2 3
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  September 19, 2023 4:26pm
ClanMcleod

Another conspiracy theory bites the dust.

Read this, be extremely concerned, then ask whoever it is you are considering voting for, what is their knowledge on this.

More importantly, are they going to oppose it and how?

Shameless betrayal by the UN

On Wednesday our representatives meeting at the United Nations will sign off on a ‘Declaration’ titled: ‘Political Declaration of the United Nations General Assembly High-level Meeting on Pandemic Prevention, Preparedness and Response’.

This has been announced as a ‘silence procedure’, meaning that states not responding will be deemed supporters of the text.

The document expresses a new policy pathway for managing populations when the World Health Organization (WHO), the health arm of the UN, declares a future viral variant to be a ‘public health emergency of international concern’.

The WHO noted in 2019 that pandemics are rare, and insignificant in terms of overall mortality over the last century. Since then, it has decided that the 2019 old-normal population is simply oblivious to impending annihilation. The WHO and the entire UN system now consider pandemics an existential and imminent threat.

This matters, because:

They are asking for far more money than is spent on any other international health program (your money);
This will deliver great wealth to some people who now work closely with the WHO and the UN;
The powers being sought from your government will reimpose the very responses that have just caused the largest growth in poverty and disease in our lifetimes;

Logically, pandemics will only become more frequent if someone intends to make them so (so we should wonder what is going on).
Staff who drafted this Declaration did so because it is their job. They were paid to write a text that is clearly contradictory, sometimes fallacious and often meaningless. They are part of a rapidly growing industry, and the Declaration is intended to justify this growth and the centralisation of power that goes with it. The document will almost certainly be agreed by your governments because, frankly, this is where the momentum and money are.

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/the-uns-new-political-declaration-on-pandemics/

This is the ‘Pandemic Plan’ that the ‘conspiracy theorists’ have been warning about for a few months now.

Looking forward to the debunkers and ‘Fact Checkers’ to come along in 3, 2, 1………….
13 4
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September 19, 2023 11:39am
- Blog-aholic
  
  I made a submission to the WHO when they first posted this.
  
  You could make a sub up to 120 words…..
  
  I told them in a nice way that stealing sovereignty and placing it in unelected elites hands is a recipe they may not like the dish it serves them.
  
  10 0
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  September 19, 2023 12:04pm
  - mawm
    
    I’m sure your submission, like mine, went unread.
    
    Meanwhile the next pandemic is already lined up – Nipah virus. Current outbreak in India will somehow spread after the signing ceremonies. Wuhan have been working on it, Gates has alluded to it – higher infection fatality rate and more infectious, and, as it is a RNA virus, the mRNA technology is there to pump out the vaccines.
    
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    September 19, 2023 3:07pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Someone mentioned the Bee, so I had a look:

https://babylonbee.com/news/trump-unveils-plan-to-lose-next-election-legitimately
6 2
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September 19, 2023 12:03pm
- Biscuit
  
  Steve, I let out a loud guffaw yesterday when I saw a meme in which Nancy Pelosi was threatening to release her sex vid if anyone Republican ran against her.
  
  The imagery, eh?
  
  6 0
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  September 19, 2023 12:23pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Biscuit – could be worse, could be Paul’s. 🤪
    
    5 0
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    September 19, 2023 2:05pm
Maggie Pie

It’s going back a wee bit now….but I was Miss Pauanui 😎

https://twitter.com/1NewsNZ/status/1703914447360696430
7 1
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September 19, 2023 12:09pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Not sure her chest moko is culturally appropriate…….
  
  8 0
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  September 19, 2023 12:18pm
- lifesgood
  
  Miss? How many kids? Rotorua has really gone down the tubes.
  
  5 0
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  September 19, 2023 1:47pm
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  WTF
  Best comment: “Geez I’d hate to see the losers….”
  
  10 0
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  September 19, 2023 2:43pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Plane load of illegals to Martha’s Vineyard?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6LFIS3Cc3w
6 2
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September 19, 2023 12:27pm
Maggie Pie

‘Perspiration is a stinky cologne’

Chippy says he also proposes entering into a formal
Co-Governance arrangement with Farmers. WTF?

https://twitter.com/benmackey/status/1703886150568743310
13 2
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September 19, 2023 1:17pm
- Ghost
  
  Chippy is like that other PM, forgotten her name…… so out of touch with reality
  
  16 1
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  September 19, 2023 1:30pm
  - Blog-aholic
    
    She/It was not out of touch with reality because she/it lives in her/its own reality called narcissism.
    
    11 1
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    September 19, 2023 1:37pm
- Damocles11
  
  He really is nothing more than a compulsive liar.
  
  10 1
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  September 19, 2023 3:19pm
Yabster

Shame Posie Parker/KellyJ has cancelled her trip to NZ.

https://theplatform.kiwi/podcasts/episode/has-posie-parker-thrown-russell-brand-under-the-bus
7 0
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September 19, 2023 1:38pm
Maggie Pie

Talkback caller @1:27 says he just witnessed yet another shooting between gang members on the cnr of Old Taupo Rd in Rotorua.
Sounded quite shaken by it.

I wonder if the boys are all getting in before there’s a change of government?
18 0
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September 19, 2023 1:40pm
- Ghost
  
  It’s time declare gangs terrorist organizations
  
  17 0
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  September 19, 2023 1:44pm
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    The problem is that they aren’t terrorist organizations – they’re regular criminal organizations. But governments have to somehow find ways to make life more difficult for gang members e.g. make belonging to a gang an aggravating factor in crimes, evict gang members from Kainga Ora houses.
    
    19 0
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    September 19, 2023 1:58pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Nope. Give them money for self-rehabilitation. I mean truckloads of money, unmarked bills, on a pallet.//
      
      8 1
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      September 19, 2023 3:21pm
septic skeptic

Anyone here up to speed with how pay per click advertising works currently? I want to know if I click on both or all 3 Winston First banner ads – does he get charged for all 3 or only unique clicks?
9 0
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September 19, 2023 2:26pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Hipkins confesses a weakness. Which one??
“spending the rest of the day “reading back over my notes” in preparation for the event.” Between the lines, reading the supplied questions and spin doctors replies.
Not a sport? Yes it is! Time to kick arses!

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/i-ll-confess-it-now-hipkins-reveals-weakness-as-leaders-prepare-for-first-debate/ar-AA1gUHZ1
7 2
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September 19, 2023 2:28pm
- Damocles11
  
  Has he booted that ‘anti-vaxxer’ candidate out yet, or does he expect us to forget about that?
  
  6 1
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  September 19, 2023 3:17pm
- greybeard
  
  He is never prepared for Hosking’s questions.
  
  6 0
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  September 19, 2023 3:49pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

NO!
I am hoping NZF don’t make the 5% There can’t be that many stupid people who ignor what the blackmailing Peters did to NZ.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/luxon-will-work-with-peters-but-only-if-he-has-to/ar-AA1gTEAf
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September 19, 2023 2:35pm
- Damocles11
  
  If he makes 5% largely by taking votes off the Left, that’s a win for the Right. He still has a strong Maori following: if they defect from Labour to him – think Dover Samuels – that’s great in my book.
  
  6 3
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  September 19, 2023 3:12pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Peters has a strong old people following, but not me. I voted for him once – once. Now I don’t recall why.
    
    7 1
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    September 19, 2023 4:45pm
Jack5

The benefits of multiculturism …

First China accused of heavying students in Australia.

Now Canada talks of “credible allegations” that India has been linked with the assassination of a Sikh independence leader in British Columbia.

Canadian Prime Minister Trudeau told Parliament in Ottawa: ““Over the past number of weeks Canadian security agencies have been actively pursuing credible allegations of a potential link between agents of the government of India and the killing of a Canadian citizen, Hardeep Singh Nijjar.”

Canada’s Foreign Minister, Melanie Joly. said the head of Indian intelligence in Canada has been expelled as a consequence.

In July, Ripudaman Singh Malik, a Sikh businessman acquitted in connection with the bombing of an Air India plane in 1985, was shot dead in Surrey, British Columbia, where Hardeep Singh Nijjar also was shot.

The Indian Government under Modi has taken a harder line on the country’s religious minorities, mainly Muslim, but also including Christians and Sikhs.

Close to a million Sikhs live in Canada.

Lucky we live in peaceful NZ. Oh, that’s right:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crime/radio-host-attempted-murder-trial-jaspal-singh-testifies-for-third-day-about-harnek-singh-attack/N3ZMUPZPKBFVFNI652ZAKBAK54/
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September 19, 2023 2:51pm
JimBobJoe

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/attacker-still-on-the-loose-after-bloody-albany-bus-station-incident-left-one-dead/DUZH3IINXNEZDMLMN4YXIYIVFY/

16 year old arrested in connection and charged with murder…

We are sliding down a hole from which it is going to be difficult to get back out of….
11 0
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September 19, 2023 2:58pm
Damocles11

Grab your copy (kidding – don’t do it) of The New Zealand Socialist Herald to read Simon Wilson’s piece on why NZ business people should vote for the Green party –

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/election-2023-simon-wilson-on-why-business-should-vote-green/JQWBQZRL3NBLTJOOTPBQEEV44M/
9 0
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September 19, 2023 3:15pm
- PeterB
  
  What a clown. Time to get copies of Mayor Brown’s urinal aiming charts.
  
  12 0
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  September 19, 2023 3:27pm
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  Wilson didn’t really outline a reason in the end, other than say NZ is doing great, and the Nats and ACT dont appreciate the Covid response brilliance enough when they point to debt.
  
  As far as voting Green, I think businesses are even less likely to be fooled as it somehow making economic sense than even the average person on the street.
  
  It is amazing Wilson finds work as an employee of The Herald as a senior writer , as he is an opinion writer only who doesn’t really doesn’t seem very convincing – not an informer or even balanced if he was debating a perspective.
  At least Bradbury states his Marxist ideological background in his opinion pieces when he writes hysterical exaggerations or flights of fancy. And he doesn’t pretend it is ‘journalism’.
  Die MSM. Die.
  
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  September 19, 2023 4:05pm
Benedict Yu

Interview by Sean Plunkett. With the head of the Electoral Commission.

The Commission is looking for thousands of temporary workers to count votes and man polling booths.

Incredibly, applicants must display an understanding of the Treaty. 🤯

https://youtu.be/J9594cMqvGg?si=DNBH5GsV3laK2j7k

Plunkett makes the guy look like a complete fool. 😀

The idea that EVERY public servant needs to understanding the Treaty is insane.
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September 19, 2023 3:32pm
- greybeard
  
  God, I hope this makes the MSM news tonight, before the “Great Debate” !!
  
  13 0
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  September 19, 2023 3:48pm
- Inandout
  
  BY, little wonder they can’t get staff. This of course leaves the door open to the woke who are immersed in treaty stuff.
  
  12 0
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  September 19, 2023 3:51pm
- Swifty
  
  If this sort of thing continues, the creation of ideological hurdles to employment in the public sector, over time we will see our civil institutions stacked solely and completely by one side of the political aisle – with those of a different view or otherwise unwilling to lie about their views completely locked out.
  
  At times I struggle to recognise this country as New Zealand – for most of my life the land of a fair go. For all.
  
  I wonder what the HRC has to say about this. Freedom of thought and conscience and all that. What about the Equal Opportunities Commissioner? Will she be fine if a subsequent government requires people to demonstrate their commitment to the thinking of Freidman, Hayek, Burke etc?
  
  This is completely shameful.
  
  14 0
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  September 19, 2023 5:09pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Let’s say you are a world class statistician. You are Scottish. You move to New Zealand. You apply for a job at Stats NZ. Why would you need to know anything about the Treaty?
    
    12 0
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    September 19, 2023 7:10pm
- rockape
  
  You can’t be a member of a political party either. Iwonder if that applies to the Maori party. I think party scrutineers in polling booths is going to be important this election.
  
  9 0
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  September 19, 2023 5:30pm
- Paul Marsden
  
  I wonder what the erudite ex MP Mr. Wayne Mapp, has to say about this?
  
  9 0
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  September 19, 2023 5:32pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “The idea that EVERY public servant needs to understanding the Treaty”
  Which version? The post 1975 or the original written in Maori and translated by Henry Littlewood?
  
  6 1
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  September 19, 2023 5:36pm
- Ghost
  
  On the radio this afternoon it said each polling station must have a Māori person at it to welcome Māori voters in Māori and that they would have voting forms only in Māori.
  
  I’m going to guess that won’t be achieved
  
  9 0
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  September 19, 2023 5:45pm
Maggie Pie

A bestie from tennis reckoned tonite Moderator for the TV1 Leaders Debate is actually married to Dam Jacinda’s bodyguard. LOL!!

God that Prue talks some shite sometimes.
11 2
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September 19, 2023 4:29pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  She is. He was one of the DPS, whether he still is I do not know.
  
  12 0
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  September 19, 2023 5:19pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    iMPARTIAL? Yeah…NAH 🙁
    
    9 1
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    September 19, 2023 5:56pm
- Ghost
  
  I’m surprised, no John Campbell.
  
  8 0
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  September 19, 2023 5:59pm
  - kevn
    
    Hosking having a turn sometime.
    
    5 0
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    September 19, 2023 6:41pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    If it wasn’t for that silly Hillary Barry threatening to leave TV1 unless they gave that little creep campbell a job, he’d never have been there.
    God he makes my flesh crawl 🙁
    
    15 0
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    September 19, 2023 6:45pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      Is that the Hillary Barry that FIFA didnt think was a Journalist but just a Presenter?
      
      6 0
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      September 19, 2023 7:19pm
Sparrow

I always enjoy the negative comments about the old charlatan Winston. Accused of being devious, in it for the baubles etc etc.
Let’s be honest all politicians are the same. Like him or hate him he is charismatic, colourful and not boring and importantly he expresses
views that many have but are frightened to express. Do I trust him NO will I vote for him maybe. It will be very boring without him can you imagine 120 Luxon/ Hipkins look alikes. Sorry we have it now the Greens and ACT are slightly offcolour puppets of a major party. Maybe it’s not democracy but I hope Winston gets back to make Wellington less boring.
I can feel the down ticks coming.
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September 19, 2023 4:35pm
- All_on_Red
  
  He’s too old
  His health isn’t good either.
  Doesn’t he have respiratory issues?
  
  7 1
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  September 19, 2023 5:07pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  He makes promises he doesn’t keep. Some might call this lying.
  
  9 0
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  September 19, 2023 6:44pm
Ghost

You can almost guess befor you even read the articles that it will be home detention

On a night in July 2022, a woman faced a “harrowing, life altering ordeal”, when a stranger, who was a sergeant in the South Korean army, followed her into her central Auckland apartment building and repeatedly tried to sexually assault her.

The woman said she felt the “chilling proximity of death” and continues to live with the emotional and physical scars, but hopes the perpetrator can reflect and rectify his wrongdoing.

Article

Although I heard on the radio Hipkins made a captains call today that labour will not try to reduce the prison population if elected. The damage has already been done.
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September 19, 2023 5:49pm
Ghost

Damn, best wishes for a speedy recovery

Newstalk ZB senior political correspondent Barry Soper has been admitted to hospital and is to have open-heart surgery to remove a blockage.

“I’d been feeling a bit out of breath walking up hills over the past few weeks and decided to go to my doctor for a check-up,” Soper said today.

“They ran some tests and it turns out I have a blockage near my heart, which needs to be removed through surgery this coming Friday. They’re keeping me in hospital as a precaution before I have the op.”

Article
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September 19, 2023 5:53pm
Damocles11

I see Gary Taylor on OneNews talking about how it’s great that all the main parties are committed keeping our ‘architecture’ to combat climate change in place….”except ACT”.

Gary is the Chairman and CEO of the Environmental Defence Society.

Gary was a candidate for the Labour Party in the Hauraki electorate in 1984.
12 0
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September 19, 2023 6:24pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  EDS can’t be a very democratic society.
  Gary Taylor has run the show for as long as I can remember.
  
  11 0
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  September 19, 2023 7:17pm
kevn

No doubt mutch will let hipkins know her draft questions before tonight.
We just know that.
11 1
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September 19, 2023 6:36pm
Flossie

Post debate panel …lefty in charge, with lefty reporter, ex Labour MP, and somebody else full of sports references!
5 0
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September 19, 2023 8:56pm
Jethrod

Was Tau Henare suffering from excess drink on the analysis of the leaders debate?
3 0
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September 19, 2023 9:00pm
Forrest

Thought Luxon did well in the debate.
Couldn’t work out why on the panel afterwards Cunliffe was there representing the left, and Tau Henare was there – representing who?
Tau’s observations were incomprehensible, it appeared he had been at the pub all afternoon.
It was embarrassing.
5 0
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September 19, 2023 9:11pm
- Biscuit
  
  Agreed, Forrest.
  
  Still, TV One’s standard ‘go to’ folk for panel discussions – Michelle Boag for National and Mike Williams for Labour – were both, blessedly, absent!
  
  I’d rate the thing a draw – which, in the context, of Hipkins needing to win to stay relevant, effectively meant it was a Luxon win…
  
  2 0
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  September 19, 2023 9:32pm
Warren

Can’t wait to hear Steve Todd’s view on the Hipkins / Luxon debate tonight. Then get his view on Jack Tames control of the expert opinions from the panel of Henare, Mikey Sherman and David Cunliff.
2 0
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September 19, 2023 9:11pm
Ghost

This is where we fail in NZ. Charges are being considered. Should be an automatic 1 year jail sentence

Two police officers have been hospitalised after being attacked by an offender who tried to evade police in Mount Wellington this evening.

Article
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September 19, 2023 10:09pm

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