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August 19, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 19 August 2023

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Tomtoddy

Hawaii’s Fires. Climate change or Bad Management?

“In 2014, a wildfire-protection plan for the area was written by the Hawaii Wildfire Management Organization, a nonprofit that works with government agencies,” according to The Wall Street Journal. “It warned that Lahaina was among Maui’s most fire-prone areas because of its proximity to parched grasslands, steep terrain and frequent winds.”

According to the Journal, the plan—which included state officials—laid out clear measures to protect Lahaina from fire. It recommended “thinning vegetation near populated areas, improving wildfire-response capabilities, and working with landowners and utilities to help reduce fire risk on their property.” Despite these and other warnings little was done.

Once covered in large sugar cane estates Maui was left to go back to native cover and long tropical grasses have taken over. In summer these become tinder dry and highly flammable.

Further the island’s warning system utterly failed. The warning sirens that were supposed to alert residents of Lahaina about the fire never went off. Instead, the warning system “relied on a series of sometimes confusing social media posts,” according to The Associated Press.

“Some survivors have reported receiving no warning messages before the fire reached them, while others said messages appeared and then disappeared from their mobile phones, and they couldn’t find instructions,” The Wall Street Journal reported.

Just one more government, bureaucratic balls up. Over 100 people died through state incompetence – not climate change.
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August 19, 2023 8:01am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Once upon a time we had high country that was leased and managed by farmers for grazing. Increasingly it’s covered by pine trees. One dry summer & the same thing will happen here.
  
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  August 19, 2023 8:07am
  - gravedodger
    
    It already has Never, google Lake Ohau settlement fire, sometimes it happens and you are correct in your assessment of how Daft Policy makes it worse.
    
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    August 19, 2023 9:38am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      That is exactly what happened, but the fire started in non maintained ex farm land
      
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      August 19, 2023 12:03pm
      - Tricati
        
        The madness of planting of radiata pine Forrest to offset carbon emissions is going to have the same impact in years to come. With no intention to harvest the trees, all the windage that blows off and drys out will be perfect fuel.
        
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        August 19, 2023 1:09pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Exactly, blame Helen Clark for that, she bought huge sheep farms for quadrupole the price to secure the properties, then shut them down, at the time St James park was valued at $2 million, she bought the place for $10 million to secure and leave it to grow wild to the elements
    
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    August 19, 2023 12:02pm
    - Tricati
      
      Biked up the back of Fowlers Pass in the St James yesterday and parts now overgrown with gorse. Used to have cattle running on the area and bugger all gorse, so totally agree once Clark took over the area its gone to crap.
      
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      August 19, 2023 1:02pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        They had 10000 merino there eating the high parts weed, merino thrive on weed, not grass
        
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        August 19, 2023 8:40pm
  - wilderbeast
    
    In a Dunedin water catchment area recently the council banned grazing full stop, seeing the tussock grasses go crazy and a large wildfire occurred.
    
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    August 19, 2023 12:23pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      That does not seem right, that fire happened, but it is in an area that has not been farmed for decades, Rocklands station is close to there, and it borders the area, no fall to their production, but the fact the land is not grassed is the problem, it is long grass not maintained, it’s a reserve, as I said mot grassed for decades
      
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      August 19, 2023 8:44pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    With an El Nino summer likely to bring drier weather on the east coasts of both islands, the chances of a decent forest fire are stronger for the 2023-24 summer season. I’d suggest that the east coast of the North Island from East Cape down to Wairarapa is especially vulnerable. There have been some significant carbon farming conversions in the last few years.
    
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    August 19, 2023 1:15pm
    - kowtow
      
      Makes me wonder how they’ll count the carbon ‘savings’ from those forests when they go up in flames.
      And who gets to have a spiritual “connection” and control of the water needed for fire fighting.
      
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      August 19, 2023 1:54pm
    - I remember when
      
      Tony Stuart:
      Past switches between La Nina and El Nino suggest that the first year after the change is often relatively mild.
      The subsequent years seem to be when the drought or extra rainfall become a potential problem.
      At present water table levels have been replenished so the landscape should retain some green growth.
      Stronger yes but 2024-25 may give the real indication.
      
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      August 19, 2023 3:16pm
- Bridgenag
  
  Update From the Maui Fires Frontlines
  Multiple separate fires, Bungled single party (D) government responses, yet more Corporate Media lies about weather
  
  https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/update-from-the-maui-fires-frontlines?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
  
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  August 19, 2023 8:20am
  - cmm
    
    PS: colonialism.
    
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    August 19, 2023 2:38pm
- Clownworld
  
  Global news can only be reported if it fufills the criteria set by WEFUN. In this case –
  1. 15min cities Solution
  2. Global boiling Problem
  3. Distract from proxy war and WW3 being waged as we are told to be woke.
  
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  August 19, 2023 8:29am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  2015 we were on a Magnum PI helicopter tour over Oahu. Great ride. Pilot pointed out the old sugarcane plantations covered in long dry grass. “One day it will all burn” he said. Fire risk and nothing was being done.
  Now the Island warning system. It is for a Tsunami warning not fire. Tsunami warning means get to higher ground. In this case that meant running into the fire. That is why a decision was made not to use them. Reports of ‘not working’ were just rubbish.
  
  Then there was the lack of water. Turned off or so much demand that the system could not cope? I still don’t know. Fire trucks could not fill their tanks.
  I do feel for the people. Saw one guy on a video going to his wife at a rescue center. “Sorry, we just lost the house” he said
  
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  August 19, 2023 9:07am
  - Don Beckett
    
    No, the guy in charge of the water supply stopped them from uding the water. I’ll see if I can get the link from my American friend’s blog – he posted it yesterday.
    
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    August 19, 2023 9:30am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      There was talk of residential water supply turned off, but the fire trucks would still need to get filled by a standpipe on a hydrant – same supply.
      
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      August 19, 2023 10:23am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Here is the link to the story about the Govt. official refusing to allow water use:
        https://the-american-catholic.com/2023/08/17/despicable-3/
        
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        August 19, 2023 10:53am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Don, They worship water so you don’t use it to put out fires? He made the decision using that mumbo jumbo? Why the hell even bother having fire trucks?
        
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        August 19, 2023 11:21am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Yeah Steve. We’ve got the same mumbo jumbo here – y’know – indigenous knowledge, science & culture.
        
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        August 19, 2023 11:35am
      - blue collar
        
        Reservoirs run out quick when there’s massive usage or broken pipes .
        They need to be topped up rapidly , the water is treated before storage for public residential use .
        
        The Maui weirdos wouldn’t allow the local mob water to top up their massive usage to fight fires .
        Deserve to be strung up
        
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        August 19, 2023 12:40pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @Don.
        In Hawaii on a volcano tour our guide mentioned many Hawaiian names. Some are very similar to Maori.
        
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        August 19, 2023 1:32pm
      - cmm
        
        Screw this”allow” bullshit.
        
        In NZ, rural firefighters do not have to be “allowed” to use water. They just grab it. And cut fences, create fire breaks and drive vehicles/ land helicopters/dump equipment wherever they want. Fires won’t wait for a bloody bureaucrat to finish their sauna and afternoon snooze.
        
        If the firefighters in Maui had just grabbed what water they wanted and not sat there waiting for permission, they might have saved some property. But they’d probably also find themselves fired and imprisoned too.
        
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        August 19, 2023 2:46pm
    - cmm
      
      Steve: It’s the same language. Just 800 or whatever years of regionalisation.
      
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      August 19, 2023 2:47pm
  - PeeJay
    
    Yep – I was quite surprised by the reports about the official not turning on the alert system. Then his response to the hecklers that it was actually a tsunami warning which would have indicated to people to seek higher ground, effectively running into the fire, was a brilliant response. The decision not to turn on the system probably saved lives – gutsy call in the heat of the moment to keep calm and think it through. Doesn’t excuse the other failings, but on this one, right call in very difficult circumstances.
    
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    August 19, 2023 10:20am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I think it would be part of training? that this was Tsunami only. A gutsy call for sure, even though it was not for fire. Saved lives? Yes!
      
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      August 19, 2023 10:45am
      - Ghost
        
        He’s resigned because the system is an all emergency, and not a tsunami only
        
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        August 19, 2023 10:50am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I suppose he made a spur of the moment decision?
        Maybe been previously caught by hearing the siren and running to higher ground only to be met with fire. I don’t know.
        Personally I think he made the right call against the rules.
        
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        August 19, 2023 10:58am
      - Ghost
        
        People died because your hero didn’t follow procedure. Which was to set off the sirens which allow people to know they need to seek further information on what is going on, from radio, mobile, or tv.
        
        Survivors have said they never got the warnings that were sent out and that the sirens would have saved life.
        
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        August 19, 2023 11:10am
      - Ghost
        
        Btw Steve, there was a power cut that day which closed the schools. Kids were at home while their parents were at work. No power, no tv, no radio, no warning of the fire.
        
        They’re expecting a lot of children died.
        
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        August 19, 2023 3:46pm
  - Ghost
    
    Is it just a tsunami warning?
    
    Hawaiʻi has the largest single integrated Outdoor Siren Warning System for Public Safety in the world.
    
    The all-hazard siren system can be used for a variety of both natural and human-caused events; including tsunamis, hurricanes, dam breaches, flooding, wildfires, volcanic eruptions, terrorist threats, hazardous material incidents, and more.
    
    Hawaii
    
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    August 19, 2023 10:37am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Thanks Ghost, I watched all 3. All emergencies yes. I think the fire one is wrong, but the siren also means listen to local broadcasts to find out what is happening.
      Controlled from inside Diamond Head Crater. A good safe place for sure. I have been in there. Often wondered why Military and the Govt are in there. I hiked to the pillboxes up the top. Took ne way over 2 hours, but I have a good camera with two lenses. 250 odd photos.
      
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      August 19, 2023 11:03am
- Ian Boag
  
  We encounter this “clean up the weeds” idea quite often after wildfire events. Are there any stories where this has been done successfully? I guess it would be places where this has protected surrounding areas that were burned out.
  
  My son in Sydney lived on the edge of the city at Hornsby on a normal residential section which backed on to gum forest plus there were several large gums on the property. A couple of years ago there were a lot of fires not all that far away.
  
  It was hard to imagine what could be done to fireproof the place ….
  
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  August 19, 2023 9:22am
  - Don Beckett
    
    I lived in Oz for 10 years in Wollongong. One year the whole Illawarra escarpment caught fire, & burned for a week or so. The reason ? The Greenies in the NSW govt had decided that it was not good for nature to do controlled burns during the dry part of the winter months. Consequently, with 4 or 5 years of fire fuel left to dry, a fire that was the most destructive for 20 years lit up the area from Audley National Park just south of Sydney right along the escarpment to McQuarrie Pass and over toward Kangaroo Valley.
    Nutty Greenies are always the problem when this type of thing occurs – they fail to consider any alternatives or consequences.
    
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    August 19, 2023 9:36am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    A fire needs fuel….
    
    You fireproof residential areas by
    1. creating firebreaks between residential areas and the forest. (green lawns, or large ring roads )
    
    2. You reduce the fuel load within the forest/ grasslands by periodic controlled burn-offs of the shrub and litter layers) or harvesting of fallen logs and small trees.
    
    https://climate-woodlands.extension.org/reducing-forest-fuel-loads-to-decrease-wildfire-risk/
    
    https://www.sierraforestlegacy.org/Resources/Conservation/FireForestEcology/FireScienceResearch/FuelsManagement/FM-Agee05.pdf
    
    Techniques that have been used for decades in places… but seem to be forgotten by folks who desire to live within flammable vegetation and who are unaware of the ecology of fire-prone species.
    
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    August 19, 2023 9:39am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      No no no no, the dead fallen branches and scrub must be left to decompose naturally without human interference in the eco system.//
      
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      August 19, 2023 11:06am
    - Dave
      
      Count that down tick as an uptick, MW. Fat Finger Syndrome struck again.
      
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      August 19, 2023 2:45pm
    - wilderbeast
      
      Agreed. Burn offs common in this neck of the woods in spring when things are at their wettest. Without it god knows the danger we’d be in. Can’t be long til the greenies object
      
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      August 19, 2023 4:32pm
  - Biscuit
    
    Agreed, Ian.
    
    Way way back in the day – 1981 – I stayed at a friend’s bush-surrounded mansion at Mt Macedon north of Melbourne – full size billiards table, indoor pool, white plush carpet throughout – and had KITTENS when I noticed how tinder-dry the ‘greenery’ was about it all.
    
    The place was destroyed – as were many others – in the Ash Wednesday fires of 1 February 1983.
    
    Short of a WIDE moat around the property I, too, can’t imagine what could have been done to fireproof the place.
    
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    August 19, 2023 9:47am
  - kowtow
    
    It’s not hard at all.
    
    Either don’t develop where there’s a fire risk or clear the risk .
    
    Why is cutting forests such a problem.
    
    Whole continents were once covered in “native” forests . We clear cut them to farm , build and survive.
    
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    August 19, 2023 9:52am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Nah, that is common sense, and common sense is not that common these days.
      
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      August 19, 2023 11:08am
      - leoj
        
        Common sense is non existent among Greens.
        
        One them just down ticked you.
        
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        August 19, 2023 12:24pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Another badge of honor leoj
        
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        August 19, 2023 1:34pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    The forest gums and the ones on the section were about 25+ metres high. If the forest was burning with a stiff breeze bwhind it you would need several hundred metres of firebreak to stall an ongoing firefront. Right along the northern edge of Sydney.
    
    Also the amount of forest would mean very substantial winter burnoffs would be required. It’s not as if we are talking about nice flat terrain … and of course the odd burn might go bad.
    
    I’m not denigrating the idea, just pointing out that it is extremely hard. I doubt that the greens are the only cause for inaction.
    
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    August 19, 2023 10:09am
    - Matt Long
      
      When you let trees around your property get dangerous, whether from gravity or thermal issues, dealing with them may be difficult and expensive but it’s entirely possible.
      Ground cover is simply dealt with by graze, mow or burn off.
      
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      August 19, 2023 10:29am
      - Don Beckett
        
        The other problem with the Ozzie gum trees is that – once the temperature gets up to about 28 C – they give off a flammable eucalypt gas from their leaves . Back around 1982, I was returning to Wollongong from doing a job in Sydney. There were scattered fires around – under control – & the road that I was driving down had fires on the right side, being controlled by fire staff.
        Nek Minit – on the left side of the road, about 300 yards away in a paddock this gum tree just exploded in flame – a spark had ignited the gas. That’s how fires spread so rapidly in Oz with the eucalypt gum trees.
        
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        August 19, 2023 11:02am
      - Matt Long
        
        Sparks jump firebreaks here too, old macrocarpa trees are easily ignited by sparks, but unless livestock are removed from grazing land New Zealand is relatively safe from wild fires.
        
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        August 19, 2023 11:42am
    - Joely Doe
      
      Fined for illegal clearing, family now feel vindicated
      Oh yeah, the Greenies are a major part of the problem
      This story was big news around Oz following Black Friday 2009
      
      “Both the major parties are pandering to the Greens for preferences and that is what is causing the problem. Common sense isn’t that common these days,” Mr Sheahan said.
      
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      August 19, 2023 12:45pm
    - wilderbeast
      
      Bollocks Ian, back burns and fire breaks are tried and tested. Sure if a fire is intense enough and occurs at the wrong time it will leap frog the breaks.
      
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      August 19, 2023 4:35pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    The aborigines have been doing it for a few thousand years now, Ian.
    
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    August 19, 2023 10:10am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    These old plantations are huge Ian. I have seen them from a helicopter, a no doors helicopter. The Dole Pineapple Plantation is huge – _ would hate to say how many acres, the old sugarcane and pineapple plantations would be ten tomes the size at a guess. Remains of an old railway system can also bee seen.
    This is America – everything is bigger.
    
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    August 19, 2023 10:36am
  - I remember when
    
    “It was hard to imagine what could be done to fireproof the place..”
    Let’s start by imagining how we can control the growth of plants.
    The use of animals would seem to be one possibility but then some people don’t like the idea of more animals.
    In Australia, amongst others, one of the current problems is wanting to return the land to its orginal biodiversity.
    This immediately brings up the problem of exotic animals of whatever type.
    It is one of the things that has lead to the promotion of regenerative farming.
    Once again we are in the land of want to and don’t want to conflict.
    As less of the population is involved with agriculture, etc, and growing numbers have virtually no understanding of it, consensus is an unlikely answer.
    How many fires will be tolerated before action will be accepted by those with polar views.
    
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    August 19, 2023 2:23pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Maui is non commercialised, and they like to do natural things like stupidly leave foliage to the elements, they also use timber in many places as opposed to concrete, completely the opposite to Honalulu, this fire would not have happen at Oahu
  
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  August 19, 2023 12:00pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

The Eagle has landed!

Seems an odd choice on both parts, though I note that as MP for Rongatai he also represented the Chatham Is.

Good luck to both of them.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/failed-mayoral-candidate-and-outgoing-mp-paul-eagle-reveals-new-job
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August 19, 2023 8:02am
- rouppe
  
  Whole url
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/failed-mayoral-candidate-and-outgoing-mp-paul-eagle-reveals-new-job/3REWYLC6BFDX3JZK2EEDG7Z7L4/
  
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  August 19, 2023 9:58am
- wilderbeast
  
  This is actually hilarious. Having had the misfortune to meet Eagle a fair few times and also overhear him skiting about purging the ranks of right learners from the public service I know him to be a fat grabbing egotist with exclusively urban sensibilities. My prediction is he won’t last 2 years over there, and maybe a lot less. The Chathams are an enchanting but very lonely place. I’m a nature lover but getting stranded over there for a few days waiting for the fog to clear was enough for me to start feeling detached from civilisation. There won’t enough ego trips over there for a guy like Eagle.
  
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  August 19, 2023 7:54pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Eat your heart out, KiwiBuild!

“The company has promised to deliver 700,000 units this year, but in the first six months it completed less than half that number.”

Still, when you see numbers like this, it’s no wonder that the arse is falling out of the milk price.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/18/china-property-crisis-deepens-as-developer-country-garden-at-risk-of-default-evergrande
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August 19, 2023 8:05am
- PeeJay
  
  Been reading a bit on this of late. Another big developer, Country Garden, is also in massive trouble. China seems to be having some real structural issues at the moment – high youth unemployment with record numbers of University graduates due to join the workforce this year, massive debt at local / regional level, most of it quite murky as well, and export / import numbers flat.
  
  I wonder if this is just a wobble or the start of some real issues? Bad for us if the later – love them or hate them we’ve a lot riding on the economic relationship with them.
  
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  August 19, 2023 10:27am
  - kowtow
    
    At times like these dictators love distractions ………
    
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    August 19, 2023 12:14pm
    - GJM
      
      Nothing like a good war to distract the people, quieten the complainer through “national security ” and soak up a lot of unemployed youth.
      
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      August 19, 2023 2:21pm
Tomtoddy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E79M0fZ4YHo

Michael Schellenberger, with an interesting cocktail of ideas, facts, opinions some pessimistic but mostly optimistic and brave. Well worth the time.
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August 19, 2023 8:08am
Bobba Fret

Tova feels she needs to defend her bias. Obviously a lot of people have been pointing it out to her.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300953126/tova-obrien-a-mouthpiece-for-the-national-party-and-the-labour-party
Sorry Tova, we all know you are Labour and writing one ant Labour article doesn’t really change that.
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August 19, 2023 8:09am
- rockape
  
  I have emailed her saying she should allow comments. Then we would get a true picture of what people think, not her sanitized version.
  
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  August 19, 2023 9:49am
  - PeeJay
    
    100% agree.
    
    Stuff should do this for all articles and not then turn the comments off when the responses aren’t what they expect. I do sometimes think the fact there is a slight right of centre response on most articles where they shut comments down that there might be some hope for NZ.
    
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    August 19, 2023 10:30am
    - Anne
      
      There is a thing at the bottom of some Stuff articles asking you to say whether you love it, hate it, makes you happy, sad, concerned, don’t care. There is a box to add your thoughts even though they aren’t published for the world to see. At least you can tell them what you think.
      
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      August 19, 2023 12:02pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Hahahaha, even on the msm articles on the lap top, all upticks have been anti Labour for about 6 months, I note this week it does not record the doen votes anymore just the up votes on Labour articles
    
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    August 19, 2023 12:09pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  “Jessica, then Tova”
  
  yip yip, labour party stooge, thats what it is.
  
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  August 19, 2023 9:51am
  - Gravelroad
    
    But “not you Barry”…..might ask an awkward question which we just could not tolerate.
    
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    August 19, 2023 11:34am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I’m still waiting for Tova to explain what was behind her sustained and at times visceral attacked on Simon Bridges in 2019 and the early part of 2020. She got so personally invested in these that in her to-air pieces especially, she lost all objectivity.
  
  Is it possibly that she was just another victim of a manipulative former National Party MP who had delusions of grandeur? Or was there a more sinister agenda. Maybe one day she will tell us.
  
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  August 19, 2023 1:19pm
  - plc
    
    You know exactly what it was.
    
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    August 19, 2023 2:15pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    “Maybe one day she will tell us.” – doubt it Tony , but I recall her questions/ (or attempt to question) being totally ignored by Simon at one of the old “foyer press scrums”. It was at the beginning of the former Nat MP’s issues starting to surface and it seemed that from that episode she started really going after SB. Isn’t there an old saying – something about the wrath of someone scorned ……..
    
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    August 19, 2023 2:27pm
I remember when

Once again the irony of their protests escape the media and the left.
Another example of systemic racism?
We are not racist but the Pacific people are unable to respond to this problem without our help.
The may have made a serious, or number of serious, error/s of judgement but they must be sheltered from any/all criticism.
David Seymour’s comments were so racist that Green MP Teanau even managed to fit ‘Right Wing’ into his complaint.
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August 19, 2023 8:10am
Tasman devil

I read that Victoria University students are moaning about the quality of the food.

They are so entitled.
Next they’ll complain about the quality of the wine.
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August 19, 2023 8:15am
- rouppe
  
  I was in a hall of residence at Waikato in 1982.
  
  Someone stuffed up the budget. For pretty much the entire last semester we ate sausages. Pre cooked sausages.
  
  To be fair the chef tried their best. Deviled sausages. Curried sausages. Baked in tomato sausages. Bbq sausages…
  
  It did get a bit tedious, but the fundamental advantage remained. We didn’t cook, and we didn’t do dishes.
  
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  August 19, 2023 10:09am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Haha. The infamous “Neil” I’m guessing if you were Bryant.
    
    The year before he watered down the milk one day!!!
    
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    August 19, 2023 12:03pm
    - rouppe
      
      💯.
      
      Of course there was also John Denny the “Dean”. In 1981 he was at the forefront of the anti tour movement, and his actions caused several hundred angry protesters to turn up at the Hall and randomly beat residents up.
      
      He, of course, had done a runner, leaving everyone else to deal with it.
      
      Hate that man.
      
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      August 19, 2023 12:54pm
      - Tom Hunter
        
        Yah. I didn’t get back until Sunday but I was told that after the events of Saturday he walked into the dining room at dinner time, said “We won” – and promptly had a stack of people get up and walk out, which apparently came as rather a surprise to him. Obviously he assumed it was like the Vietnam War or earlier protests; that the students would be almost entirely on the side of the protestors. Looking at a 50:50 split was not what he had expected.
        
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        August 19, 2023 1:16pm
      - rouppe
        
        @Tom, I was in the dining room that day and that is exactly what he said. I had been looking to watch the game on TV, but wandered off once the protesters got onto the field.
        
        I didn’t have a political bone in my body and was as naive as you could imagine. He said “some people may come to attack your home, and I need your help to defend it”.
        
        Stupid, stupid me did that. And when they came, me the skinny 80kg beanpole got one punched to the ground and started getting a kicking. I can’t remember his name but an American (Canadian?) hall resident stepped over me and just said “stop”.
        
        Once I got up, and realised Denny had disappeared like a coward, I was pretty angry. That pretty much started my journey of awareness. Certainly learned a few things that day.
        
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        August 19, 2023 2:18pm
Captain Mainwaring

The daily ‘cartoons’ seem to have disappeared from the $tuff website. Anyone know why?
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August 19, 2023 8:17am
- Colville
  
  They finally flushed them down the shitter where they belong??
  
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  August 19, 2023 8:25am
- Mark Hanley
  
  The same reason bryce edwards and tova obrien, after 6 years of fawning dishonest labour supporting BS, have started criticizing the government.
  
  A desperate plot for professional survival post the imminent National and ACT landslide election victory.
  
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  August 19, 2023 8:28am
  - Piniwi
    
    Right but now Edwards seems to be shilling for old Winston First and very surprised Muriel Newman would think giving it space in her weekly newsletter was up to her usual high standard of content of contributor.
    
    9 0
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    August 19, 2023 10:43am
    - Mark Hanley
      
      If you rejected honesty and morals for government handouts (monetary return is the only viable reason for Bryce and tovas one sided and often false diatribes) and you knew the game was up, wouldn’t you switch your allegiance to the most dishonest man in politics in the hope he’ll throw you a bone?
      
      After all, it worked for the racing industry.
      
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      August 19, 2023 11:49am
  - Paulus
    
    Don’t you mean survival of Stuff ?
    
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    August 19, 2023 1:48pm
    - Mark Hanley
      
      Stuff will be gone soon after the corrupt Labour Party goes.
      
      No PIJF + no multimillion dollar public advertising campaigns + falling readership = gone burger.
      
      5 1
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      August 19, 2023 3:21pm
- Jade Warrior
  
  It’s because their cartoonists can’t think of anything to hit National or ACT with this week.
  
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  August 19, 2023 8:28am
  - Cassandra
    
    Full stop after “think”.
    
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    August 19, 2023 9:31am
- Biscuit
  
  Captain, I know I deserve condemnation for my folly but I hunted Stuff’s website just for you.
  
  There’s a Murdoch cartoon, dated yesterday, under ‘Perspectives’…
  
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  August 19, 2023 8:48am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Thanks Biscuit, but buggered if I can find it.
    
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    August 19, 2023 9:05am
    - rouppe
      
      If you’re on the website,
      1. Click the hamburger menu (three stripes)
      2. Click the “Voices & in depth” option
      3. Choose cartoons
      
      If you’re using the (android at least) app:
      1. Click the hamburger menu (three stripes)
      2. Click the “perspectives” option
      3. Some way down you’ll see items for the individual ~~cartoonists~~ contributors
      
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      August 19, 2023 10:16am
  - pdm
    
    What a toiler you are Biscuit.
    
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    August 19, 2023 9:20am
    - Biscuit
      
      Captain, go to the main Stuff webpage and tab down six times.
      
      pdm, that’s the most polite word ending in -er that I’ve been called for YEARS.
      
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      August 19, 2023 9:52am
- Rich Prick
  
  The lefties have run out of unfunny ideas.
  
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  August 19, 2023 9:57am
  - Colville
    
    But, like goldfish, they will soon circle around and forget/ignore that they are doing it all the same…
    
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    August 19, 2023 10:57am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I don’t think the left were ever funny, they are born without a sense of humour, and it can’t be installed.
    
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    August 19, 2023 11:35am
G152

So an innocent man was accused of and convicted of a murder when there was no evidence.
And spent years in prison
What should happen now that the truth is known Alan Hall should get the money promised and it should come from the lying police and lawyers leaving them destitute as reward for their crime
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August 19, 2023 8:20am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  The other lingering question is who did the crime of which Mr Hall was wrongly convicted.
  
  The victim deserves justice.
  
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  August 19, 2023 9:39am
  - PeeJay
    
    This often seems to be forgotten in wrongful conviction cases. Don’t get me wrong, the wrongful conviction is a massive issue and the wrongly convicted is clearly a victim in this, but the original victim has family and friends that had closure and are now left without justice. Horrible for all, but seldom seems to be acknowledged there is now an unsolved crime (usually murder).
    
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    August 19, 2023 10:39am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      And of course there’s a murderer wandering around out there, unless the Grim Reaper has already caught up with him.
      
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      August 19, 2023 1:49pm
- Surely Knott
  
  And why wasn’t he heard on appeal sooner. How long have they known? Why hasn’t it only come to light now? How did it come to light that the police suppressed the evidence?
  
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  August 19, 2023 10:32am
- JimBobJoe
  
  Indeed. The NZ Police have to do a very tough job under a lot of public pressure when a rape, murder or very violent offence occurs.
  
  However fitting an easy target to a theory by jacking up or omitting evidence does the NZ Police and The Crown Prosecution service (if involved) absolutely no favours.
  
  We have just since a bigb case thrown out and a retrial order by the Judge as it was revealed the Police had mislaid then found evidence including Police Officers notebooks.
  
  I don’t expect 100% accuracy from the Police… but I do expect they apply the old adage of ”Better 99 guilty go free, than one innocent man is convicted”
  
  All my adult life I have lived in the shadow of the Arthur Allan Thomas case… within a few years of that a Sergeant in Invercargill got caught planting evidence and since then it seems to an ongoing list.
  
  The detectives need to be better in their chains of evidence and following where they lead, not select likely characters and fit the evidence to those characters
  
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  August 19, 2023 11:39am
- Waipuk
  
  He should have gotten much more than the $5m. Plus his family and the people who help prove this injustice should be compensated.
  
  It looks like the fact the evidence was suppressed or altered is not here nor there. An investigation should be conducted to find out the person/people who did this so they can be punished. Plus all cases they were involved in should be investigated. How many innocent people did they put in prison.
  
  Or do the police and legal system accept this corruption as part of the system?
  
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  August 19, 2023 11:56am
- I remember when
  
  The whole case was known to be “suss +” and should have been overturned many, many years ago.
  If it was a lizard it would be a legless lizard!
  
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  August 19, 2023 3:29pm
Bridgenag

bad cattitude posts about the Ex medical chief Jonathan Van Tam taking a job with Covid vaccine giant Moderna
He was awarded a knighthood for his services to public health ffs
.
“they will force you to buy that which they sell and then they will pay their agents handsomely for having facilitated the forcing.”
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August 19, 2023 8:21am
softail 1450

Tomtoddy, The beurecrat in charge of activating and maintaining the warning siren system has resigned and is most likely to face charges for fraud and neglect of duty ,the system just didn’t work and backhanders were being paid to contractors working on the system .
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August 19, 2023 8:21am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  See the link from Don Beckett above.
  Worship water.
  
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  August 19, 2023 11:39am
Im Right

Captain, the political cartoons will be written in red ink going forward, the ones depicting Labour are mildly mocking (like the cow one yesterday and Chippie) the ones targeting the right (Act and National) have alot more venom and spite.
Sharon Murdoch is the most Labour friendly, even when a major Labour stuff up/controversy has happened she will lampoon Luxon/Seymore and ignore the political cartoonists wet dream of zoning in on a controversy if it’s a Labour controversy. But not all the cartoonists are as one eyed as her, but certainly most are left leaning.
I enjoy a good political cartoon, as long as they are not constantly biased against the right.
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August 19, 2023 8:25am
kevn

stuff working on a deal to get Tremain as their cartoonist?
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August 19, 2023 8:25am
- igm
  
  Could you imagine the uproar from their woke journos if they entertained publishing Tremain cartoons?
  
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  August 19, 2023 8:36am
- Ruahine
  
  Ho Ho.
  
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  August 19, 2023 8:49am
- pdm
  
  Doubt it Kevn. Not the way they are targeting Uffindell.
  
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  August 19, 2023 9:21am
  - PeeJay
    
    Like sharks circling isn’t it? Uffindell doesn’t help himself sometimes, his supermarket comments were just silly, but the obvious glee of the lefty MSM in going in for the kill is quite distasteful. Especially after all their crap about how distasteful it was when everyone was hounding poor little Kiri.
    
    Just hope the good folks of Tauranga ignore this crap and vote based on policy and remember what 6 years of shambolic government has done – that, and not some silly comments, should be front and centre when voting.
    
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    August 19, 2023 10:43am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      They are not stupid, we were told Nats would lose Tauranga to the Min of education, but Uffindell hammered her, and he will again
      
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      August 19, 2023 12:14pm
    - I remember when
      
      The only really bad publicity is no publicity.
      
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      August 19, 2023 3:33pm
- jon
  
  Tremain simply the best. In earlier times, the tall ships arrived in the bay, the locals gathered onshore, said, *at last someone to blame*. Classic!
  
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  August 19, 2023 11:12am
Philview

I have been following the Lucy Letby case and heard the verdict today that she has been found guilty of 7 counts of murder. We have to trust the jury’s verdict but she looks like a pleasant young woman, but obviously not it seems.
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August 19, 2023 8:28am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Looks is deceiving, man – don’t underrate no (woman)
  
  The Gladiators
  
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  August 19, 2023 9:44am
- kevn
  
  Have a plough through this… enlightening.
  https://lawhealthandtech.substack.com/p/lucy-letby-found-guilty?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
  
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  August 19, 2023 9:56am
- Flossie
  
  Looks mean nothing. Years ago I was on a jury where a young woman was accused of supplying drugs. She appeared in the dock with a freshly scrubbed face, bouncy ponytail and a neat white shirt and “sensible” skirt.
  Not one of the twelve of us fell for it. There was plenty of evidence for us to unanimously decide that she was guilty as charged.
  
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  August 19, 2023 9:58am
  - rouppe
    
    Agree. Plenty of murderers from Killer Beez, Comancheros and the like turn up in crisp suits covering up their tattoos
    
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    August 19, 2023 10:34am
  - lifesgood
    
    Same here. I was on jury trying a man for violent assault. He came into court tidy, scrubbed and in fresh new clothes. A naïve 20s something juror thought he looked to nice to be violent. In the end we talked her round. After we found him guilty the judge congratulated us and showed us his list of previous violent convictions it was massive.
    
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    August 19, 2023 12:32pm
Colville

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300951135/searching-for-sam-why-is-national-shielding-tauranga-mp-sam-uffindell-from-the-media

Gaslighting of the highest order.

Why are Stuffed obsessed with a nothing MP from a backwater with nothing going on?

Why arent Stuffed writing about any of the many serious issues facing the country??

When will we find out who is funding Stuffed and what the political agenda is behind that funding and what editorial favours they are getting to aid the funders business and political aims?
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August 19, 2023 8:31am
- nathie
  
  Is this the same sort of shielding that Labour have been doing with their MP’s 2020-2023?
  
  Typically no Ministers are available for comment when something bad happens, but curiously enough Stuff don’t write articles about it!
  
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  August 19, 2023 9:43am
- Burtland
  
  woke lefty pro-maori – whos got the millions in that crowd to fund stuff?
  
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  August 19, 2023 9:45am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Why are Stuffed obsessed with a nothing MP from a backwater with nothing going on?
  
  Why are Labour obsessed with trying to get rid of Sam Uffindell?
  
  Could it be because he is an expert in investigating financial crime?
  
  What is Sam going to turn up when he gets a close look at where our Labour Government has been shovelling money?
  
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  August 19, 2023 10:17am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I think a few at the top are trousering money, like the Bidens do, but I only think that.
    
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    August 19, 2023 11:48am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Just perhaps he has already found crimes
    
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    August 19, 2023 12:15pm
- rouppe
  
  Why are Stuffed obsessed with a nothing MP from a backwater with nothing going on?
  
  It’s like the school yard. Someone thick, slow or ugly will get ganged up on and life made hell.
  
  Uffindel is a bit ugly and a bit thick.
  
  Plus, it will be seen as revenge by some who might have been on the receiving end at school, especially since he is known as a perpetrator.
  
  Uffindel is now having to do what others had to do. Hide. And hope he doesn’t get seen.
  
  I don’t particularly care. Just like I don’t care about Elizabeth Kerekere. Or cared about Metiria Turei.
  
  Sam Uffindel has a whiff of Jami-Lee Ross about him
  
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  August 19, 2023 10:44am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Rubbish. He’s out & about in his electorate – I see a couple of time a week driving around going places.
    
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    August 19, 2023 11:43am
    - nova
      
      I’m pretty sure I saw him at the supermarket, wearing his national party jacket…
      
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      August 19, 2023 12:13pm
    - rouppe
      
      Ooo. Driving around. Excellent.
      
      Like I say, I don’t care.
      
      But he don’t impress me much…
      
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      August 19, 2023 12:59pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Why ffs
        
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        August 19, 2023 8:55pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Utter bullshit, Uffindell was at uni here, the lies about bullying in his flat have been proven lies, the left leaning wool rep at work was the coach of Uffindell at Dunedin club rugby in the colts, he says he is anything a bully on the rugby field, and he stated he was very intelligent, to say he is thick with the jobs he has had is not fair, just permits a hit job yo get rid of his forensic abilities putting many of Labour ministers in the shit, he is guilty of being young, and I have no problem of him saying he goes to the supermarket once a month for his wife, the problem he has is he is still young, sand only media have said he is sheltered from comments, just perhaps he has worked it out himself to shut his mouth
    
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    August 19, 2023 8:55pm
ClanMcleod

Jonathan Van Tam, the Michael Baker of the covid sham in the UK has just been rewarded with his 30 pieces of silver.

Covid: Jonathan Van-Tam lands senior role at coronavirus jab manufacturer Moderna

https://www.gbnews.com/health/covid-jonathan-van-tam-lands-senior-role-at-moderna

El gato malo provides a wonderful series of memes that explain the hypocrisy and corruption at play everywhere. Worth a look. 2 minutes to read.

https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/the-political-philosophy-of-cats
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August 19, 2023 8:37am
- miltonF
  
  This sentence really rang true for me:
  
  “it is always cheaper to buy politicians than to compete in free markets”
  
  The worlds richest elites (or whatever you want to call them) despise the concept of capitalism and free markets/competition. Socialism is much better for profits. No competition and guaranteed sales by govt contract. This has probably been one of the biggest successes of recent propaganda. Convincing the public that corporations are pro capitalism, and we must abolish capitalism – playing right into the hands of said corporations, which conveniently fund the news sources we consume. I mean come on…wake up.
  
  The useful idiots are being led to slaughter and we’re being dragged along with them.
  
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  August 19, 2023 3:48pm
Biscuit

How sweet of Tova O to pen a piece in Stuff today to tell us that she’s not really politically biassed/comprised/bought.

Nope, she’s just painted that way…

I feel so reassured…
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August 19, 2023 8:38am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  It’s her entry in the creative fiction competition
  
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  August 19, 2023 8:41am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Self praise is no recommendation.
    
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    August 19, 2023 11:44am
- Opie
  
  If someone needs to tell you what you should think of them…
  
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  August 19, 2023 8:42am
- Inandout
  
  Biscuit, I think her actions are named ‘covering one’s butt’.
  
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  August 19, 2023 8:44am
- Tricati
  
  As I said the other day. Tova is like the Waimakariri River – Narrow at the head but wide at the mouth.
  Clearly she’s feeling the push-back, but tough. If you can’t take it stop pushing your biased opinions as if they are fact. Her treatment of Simon Bridges, and to some extent, Jamie Lee-Ross was appalling so she gets no pity from me.
  
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  August 19, 2023 8:45am
- Colville
  
  I would love a link to the story where she supports something National has done.
  But you know what? that link dosent exist because that story dosent exist.
  
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  August 19, 2023 8:48am
  - rouppe
    
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300949957/tova-obrien-labours-gst-own-goal-the-gnarliest-weve-seen-all-fifa-womens-world-cup
    
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    August 19, 2023 10:48am
    - Colville
      
      Did National do that??
      
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      August 19, 2023 11:00am
      - rouppe
        
        Nicola Willis broke it, I believe…
        
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        August 19, 2023 1:01pm
- mogg
  
  It’s not just O’brien, there is a media conspiracy of silence around Labour’s ongoing record of serial failure and incompetence after six years in office.
  
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  August 19, 2023 10:12am
- emmess
  
  She says she hasn’t decided who to vote for yet, but doesn’t say who between.
  Obviously, it is between Labour, Green, TPM and TOP.
  So a massive lie by omission there.
  Will she say after she has made up her mind?
  
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  August 19, 2023 10:17am
Clownworld

Once upon a time the Emperor wore no clothes and everybody believed a lie.

Until a small boy pointed out the obvious.

Here is a modern list.

1. Men can be women.
2. Men and women are not different.
3. Science is sacroscant and never changes.
4. Mainstream news is always telling the truth.
5. Lockdowns work.
6. Money is infinite.
7. NZ is not corrupt.
8. Biden is most popular president ever.
9. Trumps inditements are fair and not political partianship.
10. NZ deserve the politicians we get.

Wait scrub number 10?

Feel free to add yours.
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August 19, 2023 8:40am
- Hard Cheese
  
  Sorry mods, didn’t mean to report – fat fingers ☹️
  
  [Mod – it’s ok, you don’t need to apologise ]
  
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  August 19, 2023 10:55am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  11. Riding bicycles will save the planet from boiling
  
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  August 19, 2023 11:58am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    12: Just because we only produce 0.02% of global emissions doesn’t mean we’re not going to send more farmers out of business.
    
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    August 19, 2023 1:53pm
- kowtow
  
  Men can marry men .
  
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  August 19, 2023 2:48pm
- miltonF
  
  Here’s some I will add:
  
  Scientific fact is determined by opinion (consensus).
  Vaccines provide immunity but do not make you immune.??
  Greed/profiteering creates an expansion of the currency supply (inflation).
  
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  August 19, 2023 4:01pm
Matt Long

A curious case, this woman is being condemned as a mass murderer for killing premature babies.
As many here would heartily agree, if she had killed them before they had passed through the magical birth canal of personhood she would be lionised as a hero of woman’s rights.
So why do it this way? Was it the thrill of breaking the law? Or of taking from a mother who loved here child? Will she feel that the condemnation from society and penalty from the law makes her method less rewarding than the abortionist’s?
https://www.foxnews.com/world/cold-blooded-nurse-lucy-letby-found-guilty-murdering-7-babies-hospital-neonatal-unit
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August 19, 2023 8:41am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  You’ve overlooked the issue of maternal choice, Matt
  
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  August 19, 2023 11:59am
Diogenes

I have a question, for which I’d really appreciate input from KB bloggers.

Like many, I am quite perplexed about whom to vote for this election. While of the major parties Act probably come closest to where I sit at the moment, I have severe reservations, all of which have been canvassed here regularly.

What I have not seen is any analysis/discussion of Matt King’s DemocracyNZ party, or Matt King himself. Looking at their website, their policies and values are the closest to mine of all parties. So what I am asking for is some considered debate on how people view them. Does Matt have any chance of winning his seat, which of course would bring others into Parliament? What do people think of him as a leader? What of the quality of the other candidates? Can their policies be taken at face value? What are the upsides/downsides to what they stand for? And so on…

The one thing I will not find helpful is the simple exclamation that they have no hope of reaching 5%. If everybody thinks that, it becomes self-fulfilling prophecy. Please, can we get past that and have some genuine analysis? Quite frankly, I am getting very close to being prepared to “throw my vote away” for a party I can believe in, simply to stay true to the values I believe in. Many in history have done similar; I am not prepared any longer to swallow “dead rats”.
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August 19, 2023 8:50am
- Che Guava
  
  If you find him compelling, then vote for him. It suits the entrenched status quo perfectly well for people to trot out the dumb argument that voting for anyone other than the monolith is a waste of time. It’s only a waste of time if people continue to think like that, so it’s a vicious circle. If you think we need change, then vote f0r change. Don’t worry about what anyone else is doing.
  
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  August 19, 2023 9:32am
- Cassandra
  
  Voting for a party which will not reach 5% is effectively giving half a vote to Labour and 1/10th to the Maori Party. Look at the polls if you want “analysis”.
  
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  August 19, 2023 9:37am
  - Che Guava
    
    “Voting for a party which will not reach 5%…”
    
    Well, it’s certainly not going to reach 5% if people listen to such a mind-numbingly bad argument that presupposes what it sets out to argue for.
    
    Polls don’t provide any analysis. If you want analysis, you’re going to have to engage your brain.
    
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    August 19, 2023 9:51am
    - emmess
      
      Polls give a guide
      Democracy NZ is at 1% at best.
      I have sympathy for the freedom parties but they have totally failed to get their acts together and coalesce into an alliance. So it is ACT for me (No pun intended)
      
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      August 19, 2023 10:21am
      - Che Guava
        
        You should place your vote based on what you believe and who you think represents your beliefs the best, not on what polls say. In the strictest sense, publicly available polls are a kind of election interference, because they sway people’s vote in a way that is completely independent of substantive matters. Does a number next to a given party give you any real indication of the quality of that party? All it tells you, assuming the number reflects reality, is how much support a party has. A lot of people support a lot of dumb shit and adopt faulty ideas.
        
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        August 19, 2023 11:19am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        No, DNZ have dropped to .02, losing most their support after bad internal ructions, they are done
        
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        August 19, 2023 8:59pm
    - Colville
      
      History shows us that small parties dont make the cut.
      
      This election is the most important MMP election ever.
      
      Party vote ACT 🙂
      
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      August 19, 2023 11:03am
      - stiff cheese
        
        I fully expect there will be a change of government, and Luxon will be the next Prime Minister.
        
        So I want my vote to show there are thinking people in this country —
        
        • who are against the UN/WEF slow takeover of our sovereignty;
        • are against paying higher prices to pay for Net Zero bullsh-t (like the Emissions Trading scheme);
        • who agree with scientists like the Nobel-prize winner last week who said there is “no climate emergency” (and had the backing of 1000 fellow scientists);
        • who are against vaccine mandates, and lockdowns, and ceding any control to the W.H.O. ;
        • who want the Police to affirm their commitment to PROTECT every peaceful, lawful assembly of citizens whenever they gather to discuss the downside of radical new policies.
        
        That list rules out our 4 largest parties, doesn’t it?
        
        That’s why I’m looking for a minnow party that’s the closest fit. . . I’m confident Labour’s a gone-burger however I vote.
        
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        August 19, 2023 12:00pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @stiff cheese. There will only be a change and Luxon will be PM if all vote that way.
        To think it will happen automatically and go searching for other Parties could be fatal if too many others think that. Matt King of Democracy NZ sounds interesting, but getting rid of communist Labour is paramount this Election.
        
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        August 19, 2023 12:14pm
      - Colville
        
        stiff cheese
        
        With respect but I disagree.
        
        I want a government that will …
        – get kids back to school and have teachers that teach
        – sort out the treaty bullshit
        – Have police that will arrest people for crimes then courts and judges that put criminals in jail for a long time.
        – have government spending rationalised and waste stopped.. Value for our taxes
        – Build some houses!!
        
        The rest is trivia… wayyyyyyy down the list. The above items are the ones that will haunt our kids and grand kids.
        
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        August 19, 2023 1:13pm
    - Cassandra
      
      Thanks Che, very helpful. Note quotation marks. And if I may also be a help, try reading comments before lurching into your insightful responses. Might contribute to a more rewarding participation.
      
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      August 19, 2023 12:27pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    And if everyone believes that nonsense then of course they won’t get 5%. It’s the same crap argument rolled out by Labour and National every time to try and ensure they have as much free rein as possible to do what they want when in power.
    
    Vote for who best represents YOU and let the chips fall where they may.
    If National and Act can’t muster enough support to demolish the worst government in history, that will make them the worst opposition in history. Fact.
    
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    August 19, 2023 1:48pm
- 2ic
  
  Well I congratulate you on at least being prepared to debate, unlike some here who keep demanding you “hold your nose and vote National/Act”.
  
  I’m also looking for a party to vote for. After voting National/Act for the last 25 years, both parties have lost my support as they lack the courage to face some issues that are very important to me.
  
  I originally had high hopes for Democracy NZ, but with recent infighting and five candidates leaving they’ve sort of imploded. Matt King also has no chance in Northland – a recent poll discussed here has him at 2%:
  https://realitycheck.radio/matt-king-on-the-northland-poll-results/
  
  NZ First have picked up a couple of good candidates from the Democracy NZ exodus – Kirsten Murfitt (from New Zealand Lawyers Speaking Out with Science) and Casey Costello (from Hobsons Pledge).
  
  At the moment I’m leaning towards a NZ First vote, as they are the only party that are speaking up on some very important issues for me that are going to be in parliament. Hard to know what you’re going to get from Winston Peters though, but with National and Act turning there back on me I don’t really see anywhere else to go.
  
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  August 19, 2023 10:38am
  - rouppe
    
    One of those candidates who left for Nz first is Kirsten Murfitt who wants to test corpses for Bluetooth signals implanted from their covid vaccines.
    
    That is flat out crazy.
    
    One would think Democracy nz is better without candidates like that.
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300945108/chemtrails-911-and-vaccine-nanobots-the-digital-trail-of-nz-firsts-couldbe-mps
    
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    August 19, 2023 11:09am
    - 2ic
      
      The unfortunate reality is that Democracy NZ are flatlining and NZ First are picking up freedom voters who see them as the only way to have a voice in parliament:
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/495523/taxpayers-union-poll-suggests-seven-seats-for-nz-first-in-opposition
      NZ First: 5.8%, up 2.5% (seven seats)
      Democracy NZ 0.1%, down 1.8%
      
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      August 19, 2023 11:40am
      - rouppe
        
        Sure. But she’s a nut bar. You’re closing your eyes, covering your ears and shouting “la-la-la” to avoid that fact.
        
        I can’t vote nz first because 1. Winston caused Jacinda and 2. Nut bars.
        
        I can’t vote Destiny because: nut bars.
        
        I can’t vote Freedom Party because: nut bars. It doesn’t matter if they were at parliament shouting what’s happening was wrong. It was wrong. But if you think 5G is a mind control device you’re a nut bar.
        
        I don’t care what they’re polling, I won’t vote for a party led by the person who gave us Jacinda out of spite, and is happy to bring in nut bars.
        
        Do you want to hear that “voice in parliament” at question time asking the minister for broadcasting what testing they’ve done to make sure 5G doesn’t turn you into a zombie? FFS.
        
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        August 19, 2023 12:14pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    2ic.
    Hold your nose and vote ACT. Peters is poison.
    
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    August 19, 2023 12:11pm
    - leoj
      
      ACT is merely the least worst.
      
      Should Seymour finally come out and regret siding with EVERY OTHER PARTY during the protests, my vote for them would be a no-brainer.
      
      He won’t, which is just sad.
      
      ACT are missing out on a big boost to their numbers if he would revisit their stance.
      
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      August 19, 2023 12:46pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Peters at a kingmaker again is toxic. I never want to see NZ people treated like that again, but it is your right to vote as you see fit.
    
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    August 19, 2023 12:18pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Murfitt is a nutter, she believes in the bloody 5G bulkshit and that it’s linked to Martians
    
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    August 19, 2023 1:02pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Do you value in any (even small) way the revenue earned by primary production for local consumption and export revenue?
  If farming land use doesn’t matter, then vote Labour, Greens and a minor party with next to no influence.
  If ongoing home -grown food and beverage production is important and valuable to you, then think on.
  If Labour and their fanatical climate supporters have their way, farming in NZ will soon be a thing of the past.
  Yesterday’s announcement signalling new emissions taxes on food and fibre production will see to that.
  
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  August 19, 2023 11:52am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  There are two voting choices:
  1. Vote to rid NZ of this socialist shit.
  2. Vote for more of this socialist shit.
  
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  August 19, 2023 12:02pm
  - leoj
    
    Your Green downticker strikes again….
    
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    August 19, 2023 12:47pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Those bastards will not even get a party vote from me. All commies and they don’t know it!
      
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      August 19, 2023 1:38pm
- rouppe
  
  I’ve circled around Democracy NZ a couple of times, but probably before the so called “implosion” which sounds more like losing the crazies, or at least some of them were crazies.
  
  So I’ve done a Google search on most of the candidates just now. Not much to see, which can either be a good thing, or evidence of a sanitisation exercise.
  
  So not ruled out. However, I then have to look at the practicalities from my perspective. I’m in the Mana electorate. Mana overwhelmingly votes red, no matter what. In addition, there is no electoral candidate from Democracy NZ here.
  
  It seems to me that Democracy nz getting into parliament is going to rely on one of the candidates winning their seat. I can’t influence that. And they don’t have an Epsom.
  
  So with the overriding goal of getting this government or any similar government out, I have to vote in a manner that improves the likelihood of that outcome.
  
  That leaves party vote Act or National. I believe that there needs to be a bigger, more influential voice with values that support mine: end mandates; true democracy, with race based legislation eliminated; removal of the thousands of pr jobs in government; stop the working groups and expect departments to do their job; remove departments that don’t add value, releasing money for health, education and law & order. And on, and on.
  
  One example. It taking ages for passport renewals, and processing immigration. Take the staff from the Ministry for Pacific Peoples, and apply them to those jobs. Need more? Ministry for Women. Need more? Te Puni Kokiri. In fact Corrections needs more staff, get some TPK in there. Outcome? Better services for all new Zealanders, and would you really notice? Doubt it.
  
  Anyhow, back to the point. That leaves me with ACT. I do have DNZ in the back of my mind, if circumstances suit, but real world situation right now is what it is.
  
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  August 19, 2023 12:04pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    [Mod – I don’t know how many times you have to be warned and banned before you change your behaviour, but consider yourself banned agian]
    
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    August 19, 2023 9:08pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Go do some homework on what is happening internally, 5 or 6 candidates have walked, one named candidate was sacked to make way for Kings squeeze, the party has virtually fallen apart, no wonder they have fallen from 1.8% too .02% in the last couple of months, King has stuffed it, he may as well pull up stumps
  
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  August 19, 2023 12:52pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  Matt King is not going to win Northland. At best he’s going to finish fourth, behind McCullum (National), Prime (Labour) and Jones (NZF). His party is definitely not going to get 5% of the vote IMHO. Democracy NZ is not even registering on some of the polls.
  
  Setting up a new party is incredibly difficult, and it’s even tougher for the leader who faces the choice between campaigning around the country or campaigning to win his seat. It’s hard to do both successfully, unless you’re a sitting MP with a big majority a la Hipkins or Luxon. The internal wrangling in DNZ that saw four candidates either walk away or be expelled (depending on who you listen to) was probably a fatal blow for the party.
  
  What you have to decide is how pragmatic you are prepared to be. If you vote for DNZ according to your principles, there is a risk your vote will be wasted and that plays into Labour’s hands. If however you really want a change of government vote for National or ACT, even if you have to hold your nose in doing so. Tactical voting didn’t work for the centre-right in 2020, and in my opinion, voters seriously wanting a change of government have two options; National (my first preference) and ACT (2nd). At the end of the day though, you’ve gotta do what you’ve gotta do!
  
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  August 19, 2023 2:02pm
  - greybeard
    
    Your 3rd paragraph sums it up perfectly.
    
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    August 19, 2023 2:48pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    5th you forgot ACT that is in third place
    
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    August 19, 2023 9:09pm
- KH
  
  My input is don’t vote for anybody talking / mandates /WEF etc. You asked.
  Matt King says it gently, but it’s there.
  As for the “Freedom” word nothing wrong with it, but we have a nutbar bunch on the fringe who have wrecked the good use of it.
  
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  August 19, 2023 3:22pm
Ruahine

Another attack on food production yesterday by the Labour Gov’t.
https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/
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August 19, 2023 8:52am
- mandk
  
  No need to worry, Ruahine.
  
  The production will just get transferred to other countries that are more emissions intensive than NZ.
  
  It’s a blow against global warming, don’t you know.
  
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  August 19, 2023 10:03am
- Matt Long
  
  They’re allocating a further $200 million for research into reducing methane emissions, that’s excellent. I bet many a glass was lifted to this announcement, after $90 million has already been spent by farmer funded organisations as part of the Pastoral Greenhouse Gas Research Consortium with ZERO results that can be applied on farm.
  https://www.pggrc.co.nz/
  
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  August 19, 2023 10:50am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Nobody has thought of this: The team of 5 million fart, so just stop doing that!
    
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    August 19, 2023 12:26pm
    - lifesgood
      
      I reckon my 12 year old grandson produces more methane than any cow.
      
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      August 19, 2023 12:43pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    National will be giving farmers the power to use gas inhibitors, rye grasses that farmers have begged for for years, yes under Key as well, and science funding to further reduce emissions, many sheep and beef farmers are trying to become carbon neutral, many are already carbon neutral accredited now, but this rotten regime refuses to give them credit
    
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    August 19, 2023 12:56pm
    - Matt Long
      
      Hi G, high sugar grasses, diverse pasture mixes, possible feed supplements, and selective breeding all have been shown as ways to lower methane emissions.
      Of course no one has the tools to measure these at the individual farm level and the cost would be prohibitive.
      Therefore the HWEN Levey to pay for the $200 million in research will be levied on production or animals carried.
      
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      August 19, 2023 2:20pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        They don’t need to measure as long as they use these products, but the rye grass has been unusable because of GM, Nats have vowed to burn that law
        
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        August 19, 2023 9:12pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  The Paris Agreement specifically refers to food production:
  
  The aim (copied below) of the agreement is:
  
  “to decrease global warming described in its Article 2, “enhancing the implementation” of the UNFCCC through:[11]
  
  (a) Holding the increase in the global average temperature to well below 2 °C above pre-industrial levels and to pursue efforts to limit the temperature increase to 1.5 °C above pre-industrial levels, recognizing that this would significantly reduce the risks and impacts of climate change;
  
  (b) Increasing the ability to adapt to the adverse impacts of climate change and foster climate resilience and low greenhouse gas emissions development, in a manner that does not threaten food production;
  
  (c) Making finance flows consistent with a pathway towards low greenhouse gas emissions and climate-resilient development.”
  
  https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1910/S00153/paris-agreement-on-climate-change-threats-to-food-security.htm
  
  There is no doubt whatsoever that the regime on emissions charging of farmers announced yesterday will send some farmers, possibly many, to the wall. Accordingly it violates the Paris Agreement because it does indeed threaten food production. Farmers I spoke to in Stratford last night, and people who rely on doing business with farmers are livid.
  
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  August 19, 2023 2:07pm
Jack5

What are the “cultural reports” cited as judges give soft sentences to violent thugs?

Are they universal – do all offenders get them, or are they specific to some races? What do “cultural reports” provide judges with that they don’t get from traditional probation reports or from defence lawyers or from offenders themselves?

Here’s a case:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/teens-sentenced-for-assaults-stabbing-at-taranaki-teenage-paddock-party/ZE22SASSUNHQ7D4XMMS3HSJPEU/
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August 19, 2023 8:53am
- Southern Raider
  
  I liked the bit where the judge is quoted as saying “when you aren’t drunk, aren’t trying to impress your mates and aren’t trying to kill someone you are actually a nice guy” and then uses that to justify halving the prison sentence.
  
  The other punk got home detention for his role in the assaults and stabbing
  
  Someone should have provided the English nurse a cultural report as I’m sure when she isn’t killing babies she is a hard working nurse and community minded
  
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  August 19, 2023 9:46am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Anyone can get a cultural report. However one culture dominates. What is a Chinese guy going to do? Argue he was traumatised by after school violin lessons?
  
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  August 19, 2023 10:21am
  - Jack5
    
    Sir, violin lessons made by client highly strung.
    
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    August 19, 2023 10:36am
    - Colville
      
      Hi Lee Strung?
      
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      August 19, 2023 11:04am
  - day tripper
    
    Correct. They are for anyone to talk about their life and things that have happened to them. I have argued over children of immigrants from the UK being displaced and losing contact with their history and culture successfully (used the theme led for all Māori about colonisation and add in parts about the repression of the Scottish population). They are useful for looking at what future counselling or assistance is needed. We can then put that in place as the rehabilitation component to the sentence. It is then up to them to make use of that assistance.
    
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    August 19, 2023 11:15am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    He might have hated being forced to work in the fish and chip shop after school
    
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    August 19, 2023 12:58pm
- rouppe
  
  I think they all come under the umbrella of “pre sentence report” in S26 of the sentencing act
  
  S27 also gives opportunity for the Aunties to tell the judge what a good boy he really is.
  
  Both of those sections are only available to the offender. There is no process for the victim in this Act.
  
  There is the Victims Rights Act. However it is very prescriptive, had to be done at the right time in the right way.
  
  For example, the Sentencing Act allows for any Whanau, cultural etc matter to be heard. But S18 of the Victims Rights Act says:
  
  The prosecutor must make all reasonable efforts to ensure, before information is ascertained from a victim under section 17,—
  (a) that the victim is informed—
  (i) that the information is being ascertained for a victim impact statement; and
  (ii) that the victim must ensure that any information that he or she gives is true; and
  (iii) that the information must be recorded, and may be verified in the way stated in section 19(3) or (4); and
  (b) that the victim is informed about who may properly see or make or keep copies of the victim impact statement, and about the orders, directions, and conditions, relating to disclosure and distribution of it, that may be made under sections 24(3)(b), 25, and 27; and
  (c) that any views the victim has on whether the prosecutor should apply for orders, directions, or conditions of that kind, are ascertained.
  
  I thought it interesting that the victim impact statement says it must must contain true information, but the pre sentence report doesn’t have that prescription. Shouldn’t every submission to the Court be true?
  
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  August 19, 2023 12:41pm
Matt Long

Debanking anyone whose opinion we do not approve of applies to Nations, as well as individuals, it’s a dangerous trend.
https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/08/18/world-bank-de-banks-uganda-for-anti-gay-law/
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August 19, 2023 9:03am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Debanking?
  
  Sounds very authoritarian…
  
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  August 19, 2023 9:06am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    That’s debagging. Sam U knows all about it.
    
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    August 19, 2023 12:03pm
- Notsofast
  
  This is exactly where New Zealand would head with Kiri Allan and her ilk in power. Note the Spark and Vodafone witless annointing of Shaneel Lal as the new media God. Essential services like utilities and banking should be protected before it is too late here.
  
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  August 19, 2023 9:22am
  - Jack5
    
    Spark, One NZ (formerly VodafoneNZ), and 2 Degrees – all three – seemed to band together with Lal.
    
    In the Herald, One NZ was reported as saying it doesn’t want customers who are “anti-trans”.
    
    Spark is Woke in a wider sense. An example was its dig at the New Zealand whaling folk song Wellerman which now has 300 million hits on YouTube, translations in several languages, and renditions by performers as diverse as the Vienna Boys’ Choir, a Germany classical orchestra, and United States military bands.
    
    The song was depicted in a TV advertisement by Spark, with a young person rejecting it on environmental grounds.
    
    While we’re on the topic of NZ ignoring its whaling past, will the Wokies censor or cancel the American classic novel “Moby Dick”?
    
    It has mentions of New Zealand shore whaling and a Moby Dick-scale whale called New Zealand Tom. A leading character trades in Maori heads.
    
    Perhaps the Woke will leave “Moby Dick” alone because it depicts what is obviously a gay link between two main characters, the narrator, Ishmael, and Queequeg, the Polynesian ace harpooner.
    
    Cellphone companies and Shaneel Lal:
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/shaneel-lal-spark-one-nz-2degrees-band-together-to-cancel-anti-trans-trolls/SDEV3CLT6VCFTJYKCC7GB52LWI/
    
    The original rediscovery of “Wellerman”, the whaling song from Otago in the 1820s:
    
    https://youtu.be/qP-7GNoDJ5c
    
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    August 19, 2023 11:55am
    - kisekiman
      
      Cool song. Thanks for posting. No doubt very triggering for certain snowflakes though.
      
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      August 19, 2023 2:09pm
- Che Guava
  
  It’s the other way around, really: the “rules-based order” has long been in the business of “debanking with extreme prejudice” (i.e. invading, or what is euphemistically called “intervening” in) nations that have “problematic” policies or opinions from the perspective of international finance. The phenomenon has only recently been applied to individuals too.
  
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  August 19, 2023 9:25am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Vandalism or Electioneering stunt?
Te Pati Maori say non-maori are donating for repairs. $6000 so far.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/election-2023-te-p%C4%81ti-m%C4%81ori-party-billboards-vandalised-in-racist-attack-p%C4%81keh%C4%81-donate-thousands-for-repairs/ar-AA1fqM52
I cut off most of the tracking rubbish.
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August 19, 2023 9:13am
- CJames
  
  I suspect this is just another Jussie Smollett event. Anything to try to get them favorable press coverage from compliant media. Just surprised ACT hasn’t been blamed,or is that to come?
  
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  August 19, 2023 9:29am
- Cassandra
  
  Note that the vandalism was “racist”. And of course having a political party for just one race is not. Go figure that one! The Moron Party (“Te Paati Moron”) is more like it.
  
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  August 19, 2023 9:40am
  - rouppe
    
    The are Nationalist. Socialist. Racist.
    
    The Mazi Party
    
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    August 19, 2023 12:46pm
Matt Long

Scotland cuts it’s deficit by producing oil, unfortunately our brand of regressives are too stupid for that.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/aug/16/scottish-public-spending-deficit-falls-oil-revenues-hit-record-high
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August 19, 2023 9:17am
Jack5

Among the more flagrant examples of pro-Left, pro-Woke bias in the mainstream media, is the targeting of National MP Sam Uffindell.

As today in Stuff, which again tries to brand him for comments about shopping once a month, and again mention a schooldays incident.

Labour’s getting its money’s worth from the pipeline of media subsidies that it set up.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300951135/searching-for-sam-why-is-national-shielding-tauranga-mp-sam-uffindell-from-the-media
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August 19, 2023 9:19am
- Hard Cheese
  
  I think Maggy W’s theory (see her post above) is right on the button. There is more to this focus on Uffindel than makes normal sense.
  
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  August 19, 2023 11:00am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Because they don’t want his forensic analysis, Robertson has a look of fight on his face every day
    
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    August 19, 2023 9:14pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  All they are doing is showing nz why they need a change in government come October
  
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  August 19, 2023 1:00pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

TV3 needs money – went to Willie Jackson to ask.
Willie Jackson may have said “Yes bro, but you must put on at least 2 hours a day of ads for Maori” Crafty character this Willie Jackson.
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August 19, 2023 9:20am
Surely Knott

This morning on Herald – “Do you want to die?”
Blake Hollins Apiata stabs 15 year old, and knocks others unconcious.

“The outcome Hollins-Apiata, who is currently serving a prison sentence for breaking the jaw of an off-duty police officer, faced, however, was far more serious.” Hmmm so if he is in prison how did he commit the offence?

Piecing the times together from the two stories. Timeline =
July 2021 – Breaks cops jaw at a party
April 22 – Commits stabbing and assault offences at party.
June 2022 – Locked up for 2 yrs 6 mths for cop assault.
Aug 23 – Appeared for sentencing. Gets 3 years.

So it took a year for him to be locked up after assaulting the police constable and in between he was still able to go to more parties and seriously assault people.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/teen-appeals-prison-sentence-for-brutal-attack-on-off-duty-police-officer/5HNUYK4Z2UQUA6KWFQSOQ2LQFA/

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/teens-sentenced-for-assaults-stabbing-at-taranaki-teenage-paddock-party/ZE22SASSUNHQ7D4XMMS3HSJPEU/
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August 19, 2023 9:26am
- PeeJay
  
  Our justice system moves far too slowly. This is bad for both the victims and the accused. Justice should be swift. If this needs night court sessions, 24 hour courts, whatever – the system needs a reboot and needs to be quicker. Far too many cases take far too long to resolve.
  
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  August 19, 2023 11:01am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    A team of Judge Judys!
    
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    August 19, 2023 12:35pm
kiwikidsnz

https://sararar.medium.com/lauren-dickason-the-devouring-mother-de1c8becad48

A very insightful opinion
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August 19, 2023 9:34am
Yvette

Last-ditch bid to push through contentious Kermadec ocean sanctuary
Alarmed iwi groups are to meet today after learning last night of a surprise Government move to legislate the stalled 620,000 square kilometre marine park.

“With less than half a percent of our marine environment protected, and no protected areas in our huge exclusive economic zone, protection at Rangitahua is long overdue.”
– Eugenie Sage, Green MP

“And like the foreshore and seabed, it’s whether those Maori MPs want to get caught on the right or wrong side of the ledger
“Let me tell you, I will be absolutely committed to mobilising our people to come out in full force against it… They might find themselves on the receiving end of another mass protest.”
– Pahia Turia, Te Ohu Kaimoana
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/pro/last-ditch-bid-to-push-through-contentious-kermadec-ocean-sanctuary?

■ Is this Labour’s answer to David Seymour’s joke about Guy Fawkes – and blowing up things, for which there is always an avid audience
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August 19, 2023 9:39am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Crazy Joe Biden wants to pardon 911 masterminds?
This man needs to be stopped.

https://roccistuccishow.com/biden-team-mulls-plea-deals-for-9-11-mastermind-and-4-co-conspirators/
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August 19, 2023 9:40am
- Che Guava
  
  Imagine still believing that so-called Muslim terrorists did 9/11.
  
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  August 19, 2023 9:45am
  - imalwaysright
    
    I note that the internet, especially youtube, has been sanitised of “alternative narratives”.
    
    Two of the world’s most overengineered buildings completely destroyed by a kerosene fire. Yeah right!
    
    A suicidal maniac flies a passenger jet through the front door of the Pentagon . Yeah right!
    
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    August 19, 2023 10:51am
    - Che Guava
      
      The physics alone are impossible, without even considering who benefitted the most. Two buildings (actually three, if you count WTC 7) specifically designed to take impacts from commercial jet airliners collapse at freefall velocity, while the type of planes alleged to have hit the buildings would have disintegrated before they reached the purported impact speeds of 500 miles an hour due to the density of the air at sea level. And this is all without considering the footage of the Pentagon impact that doesn’t have a plane in it, nor the Pennsylvania crash site that also had no aircraft debris or dead bodies. No footage of the hijackers at the airports either, and we are supposed to believe that they were identified via their passports that survived the impacts? This is all Covid-level fantasy.
      
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      August 19, 2023 11:07am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Exactly , and don’t forget the aerodynamic ground effect that would prevent the “plane” from getting low enough to go through the Pentagon front door . No problem for a cruise missile though.
        
        As Scotty would say:
        
        “Ye cannae change the laws of physics Captain “
        
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        August 19, 2023 11:32am
      - Lance
        
        Conspiracy theory bullshit.
        Good grief man, one of the 737 MAXs that crashed a few years back went straight in. They had to excavate the ground to find any parts. Plenty of examples of this.
        Ignoring photos of the jet engines inside the Pentagon, try Googling the images.
        An aircraft verses solid concrete pillars… the pillars win. Think tree vs car, tree has a bit of bark removed, the car is scrap iron and the inhabitants mincemeat.
        
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        August 19, 2023 11:55am
      - Che Guava
        
        I notice that you studiously did not address any of the other problems I raised, but here is a video of the Pentagon impact. If you can see a plane in it, you’re a better man than I am.
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SL2PzzOiF8
        
        Moreover, you say that “An aircraft verses solid concrete pillars… the pillars win.” I think that this principle applies even more so to the gigantic steel columns that the Twin Towers were constructed out of, which, I reiterate, were specifically designed to withstand an impact from an airliner. And even if it were plausible that jet airliners caused the collapse (notwithstanding the aerodynamic problems I pointed out) how do you explain the exact same manner of collapse with regard to WTC 7?
        
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        August 19, 2023 12:45pm
      - Che Guava
        
        imalwaysright
        Scotty was correct, of course, as was Sherlock Holmes when Arthur Conan Doyle made him say “when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.”
        
        The implications of physics aren’t a conspiracy, but in this case, they clearly point to one.
        
        If the official story is based in whole or in part on a set of physical impossibilities, then it must be rejected. This is what rational people are forced to conclude. This raises the question why the official story is, of necessity, a lie, or if we are being charitable, a complete mistake.
        
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        August 19, 2023 1:08pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        @Che Guava @ 12:45PM
        
        If you can see a plane in it, you’re a better man than I am.
        
        I have viewed that video many times over many years. Look again, just above the box / orange cone, on the right of the screen, at 4 seconds. The plane is clearly visible, if only for a fraction of a second.
        
        Now, against my better judgement, I’m going to indulge you. Barbara Olson, the wife of the then-US Solicitor General, Ted Olson, and a semi-regular on the Larry King Show (which was appointment viewing for me, for many years), was on that flight. She rang her husband several times as she and her fellow passengers rapidly approached their fate.
        
        Ted Olson hasn’t laid eyes on his wife since they parted company that morning. So, what happened to her, and to the other passengers on American Airlines Flight 77 that morning, Che? I look forward to your illuminating response.
        
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        August 19, 2023 3:19pm
      - Lance
        
        The aircraft impacts didn’t bring down the twin towers, neither did the fire as such.
        It was an aluminium explosion. Aluminium heated to over 1000 degC and then suddenly inundated by water will explode like nothing else. The water happened when the floor above ceiling collapsed and the aircraft supplied the aluminium, the aircraft fuel heated the aluminium.
        In the footage you can even see molten aluminium pouring out the side of the towers before the explosion.
        BTW, they use aluminum as the main ingredient of solid rocket fuel.
        
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        August 19, 2023 3:29pm
      - GJM
        
        You are wrong, and fire is a subject I have a lot of knowledge about. It is also insulting to many people around the world and at NIST who have studied it, including some I know personally.
        The buildings were designed for a glancing blow from a 1960s airliner, not a modern widebody jet at 600kph, with 70000 kg of jet fuel on board.
        You are wrong to say the building was a massive concrete structure. In fact it was the opposite, as it couldn’t be built in a conventional manner. It had a concrere service core for the stairs, hvac and lifts. The floors ran from this core to the outside of the building, supported on lightweight steel trusses. These connected to light steel columns around the perimeter of the building, forming a visible part of the facade. The impact sheared off the columns on several floors so the floor had no edge support. Structural loads transfered to the surviving structurebut greatly weakened. The impact also knocked off the spray on fire proofing. This was either asbestos or vermiculite sprays and insulates the steel in fire to keep it below temperatures where it starts to lose it’s strength at around 550 degrees. Typically room fires are over 1000 degrees. The sprinkler system was knocked out by the impact shearing the risers. The 70,000kg of fuel is a far higher fuel load than the design load. Once the surviving steel weakened in the fire, it collapsed, leading to cascading failure.
        Sorry to destroy your conspiracy theories with facts. 8fyou want more details, let me know.
        Do I believe a bunch of Saudi religious nuts flew planes into the building? Yes I do. Do I believe the US government took great advantage to pass undemocratic laws and invasions? Yes I do. Do I believe that the US government would quite happily lie, cover up or fabricate a false flag operation? He’ll yes, they have previous form on this, going back to the Gulf of Tonkin incident or before then.
        
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        August 19, 2023 3:56pm
      - Che Guava
        
        As far as I’m aware, cellphones didn’t work on airplanes back 2001, especially not at 20 or 30 thousand feet. They may not even work now.
        
        “Ted Olson hasn’t laid eyes on his wife since they parted company that morning. So, what happened to her, and to the other passengers on American Airlines Flight 77 that morning, Che?”
        
        Who knows, but this isn’t even at all relevant. My point is that the official story is riddled with impossibilities grounded in breaches of the laws of physics. If the physics make the official narrative impossible, then nothing else matters really. That’s the end of the story.
        
        Besides the impossible aerodynamic propositions contained in the official narrative, the advanced nature of the piloting manoeuvres required to line up the planes supposedly with completely incompetent pilots at the controls (particularly flying at near-ground level for a long distance at a speed of 500 knots in the case of the Pentagon), and the inexplicable collapse at freefall speed of WTC 7 (when it wasn’t even struck by an aircraft), for the Twin Towers (over-engineered to withstand a commercial airliner impact) to similarly collapse into their own footprints travelling at freefall speed, the necessary condition is that all obstruction provided by the lower floors had to be first blown out of the way in sequence, as is the case with the conducting of any other controlled demolitions.
        
        I know that it’s hard to accept, but the public are lied to constantly in the service of overarching political agendas, and 9/11 is an extreme and prime example of this. Covid is another good one.
        
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        August 19, 2023 5:04pm
      - Che Guava
        
        “Do I believe a bunch of Saudi religious nuts flew planes into the building? Yes I do. Do I believe the US government took great advantage to pass undemocratic laws and invasions? Yes I do. Do I believe that the US government would quite happily lie, cover up or fabricate a false flag operation? He’ll yes, they have previous form on this, going back to the Gulf of Tonkin incident or before then.”
        
        So let’s think about what you’re saying:
        
        They are well known to have done false flags in the past for political gain prior to 9/11;
        
        The event on this occasion was subsequently used as a pretext to greatly advance a desired political and social agenda; and
        
        The US invaded other countries in the Middle East, but not Saudi Arabia, despite the alleged hijackers being “Saudi religious nuts.”
        
        Why, then, would you believe the central idea that Muslim terrorists were involved? Believing this stands out as being inconsistent with all of the other statements and admissions you made.
        
        And all of the above is in addition to what I have argued at length, which is that the official explanation contradicts the laws of physics, so it cannot be true. And I haven’t even invoked who gained the most politically – it certainly wasn’t the Islamic world. It wasn’t even really the United States either.
        
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        August 19, 2023 5:26pm
      - ProtectBabiesFromPredators
        
        Slater would have you believe otherwise!
        
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        August 19, 2023 7:19pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        @Che Guava @ 5:04PM
        
        Can’t admit you saw the plane, Che? No surprises there.
        
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        August 19, 2023 7:30pm
      - Che Guava
        
        I can’t admit that I saw a plane, because I didn’t see one. The object looks far more like a cruise missile, given its small size, its velocity, its extremely low altitude, and the cruise missile sized hole it left in the building. You’re lying or completely deluded if you genuinely claim to see a plane in that footage. For what it’s worth, nobody in the YT comment section can see a plane either.
        
        Do you expect me to believe that the best footage available that day is a security camera from a gas station across the street from the Pentagon, one of the most secure buildings on Earth? Lol. If there was footage showing a plane, we’d have seen it from day one.
        
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        August 19, 2023 8:55pm
- Inandout
  
  SO, more scary is Biden’s tampering in the Russia/Ukraine war with Dem hawks no doubt steering him behind the scenes. No doubt his minders will let him sail close to WW3 and then pull the plug (read health issue here).
  
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  August 19, 2023 10:05am
mandk

According to StatsNZ, there were 18,429 deaths in NZ in the first 6 months of this year.

This was 2819, 0r 18.1% more than the average for the same period during the five years before COVID arrrived in NZ in 2020.

Meanwhile, there were 963 deaths attributed to COVID (i.e. within 28 days of an infection – which means that they may have had little or nothing to do with the illness).

Overall, therefore, there were excess 1,856 deaths that had nothing to do with the illness.

Draw your own conclusions, but mine is that the COVID response, including the vaxx is going to end up causing many more thousands of lives that the illness caused.

Safe and effective?
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August 19, 2023 9:41am
- NothingLeft
  
  It’ll take 5-10 years, and will only happen against steadfast institutional resistance of govt, big pharma and their captured establishment apparatus of journals and medical bodies, but eventually there will be wide spread understanding that MRNA vaccines did more harm than good for >80% of population (>95% after omicron became dominant), and that they have, over time, led to the deaths of perhaps nearly as many as covid itself.
  
  “But no-one is to blame”
  “Mistakes were made”
  “Noone could have foreseen the issues”
  “Shut up”
  “Look, squirrel!”
  
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  August 19, 2023 11:59am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    “Some people did something”
    Ilhan Omar.
    
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    August 19, 2023 12:45pm
- Conservatarian
  
  90 or so excess deaths per week. The equivalent of a 747 aircraft crashing every three or four weeks. Politicians disinterested. Corporate press (the tobacco salesmen of the 21st century per Michael Malice) disinterested in the government’s disinterest. “Must be the aging population I guess, don’t think about it too much.”
  
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  August 19, 2023 3:38pm
- Ghost
  
  Some of these deaths will be because of our collapsed health system, people not getting timely operations, people not getting timely treatment. Cancer patients that were not getting a diagnosis or treatment in a reasonable time frame. Thank labour for shutting hospitals down that had no covid in them or the area
  
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  August 19, 2023 3:50pm
- ProtectBabiesFromPredators
  
  Yeah, Nah…new Flu AND a new Covid variant just announced, choking the Public has become a pastime.
  
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  August 19, 2023 7:21pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Corrupt collusion to destroy Trump.
This of course indirectly involve Hunter Biden corruption.

https://roccistuccishow.com/gingrich-someone-from-dc-called-fani-willis-on-friday-and-demanded-she-indict-trump-on-monday-to-cover-up-weiss-screw-up/
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August 19, 2023 9:46am
- RichardX
  
  Get better sources.
  You may not care if what you post is true or not but others care.
  
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  August 19, 2023 11:18pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

There is no climate emergency.
1609 scientists and professionals.

https://craigbushon.com/2023/08/world-climate-declaration-states-there-is-no-climate-emergency/
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August 19, 2023 10:05am
- Inandout
  
  SO, as an old farmer told me recently, the weather changes roughly 4 times a year and can be wet, cold, hot and dry with variable winds. Over his 60 years on the land he has seen floods, droughts, snow and normal seasons. I suspect now that Covid has been put to bed then climate rears its head again, so bloody predictable.
  
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  August 19, 2023 10:14am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That old farmer is pretty close to what happens.
    Maybe he should have a seminar, and invite Greens only.
    
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    August 19, 2023 12:50pm
Flossie

I was reading an article about the bowel screening test kits available to people over a certain age. That age varies – lower for Maori. Only 58% of samples are returned for testing, and the return rate for Maori is way lower.
So how do the powers that be arrive at the conclusion that Maori are disadvantaged by our health system?
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August 19, 2023 10:08am
- Ghost
  
  In South Canterbury the return rates are pretty good except for pasifika
  
  She said 79% of those invited to do the tests had participated, this included a 72% uptake from Māori and 54% from Pasifika
  
  Article
  
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  August 19, 2023 10:18am
  - Flossie
    
    That is not the article I read.
    
    [Mod – when quoting articles please include links]
    
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    August 19, 2023 10:52am
    - Flossie
      
      Okay, won’t quote again as I don’t know how to link.
      
      [Mod – if you like, just give the name of articles and when I’m on I will link them for you]
      
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      August 19, 2023 11:04am
      - Flossie
        
        Thank you Mod
        
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        August 19, 2023 11:49am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Remember during the pandemic there was a successful Treaty claim that Maori we were discriminated against in the vaccine roll out because Maori vaccination rates were lower. IIRC the government then threw about 100 million dollars at iwi organisations. It made no difference to the vaccination rates but the yelling and wailing stopped. Where did the money go?
  
  There is only so much that can be done. We can’t have a society where one group can say “We are not going to vaccinate our children for measles unless you pay us.“
  
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  August 19, 2023 10:29am
- ProtectBabiesFromPredators
  
  Quite simple. Maori are not integrated into anything.
  
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  August 19, 2023 7:23pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

So who made the complaint to the Electoral Commission?

https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/electoral-commission-refers-julians-booklet-to-the-police/
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August 19, 2023 10:18am
Maggie Pie

HONESTLY, who writes this sh!t……

‘Pakiha donate thousands to repair vandalised Te-Pati-Maori billboards’

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1692452769368580287

Irrespective of what happened, what a complete waste of money these Billboards are.
Name me ONE person that you know of, who has ever been swayed to vote for someone based on these silly f…ing blots on the landscape?

I’ll wait 😎
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August 19, 2023 10:31am
- Albie
  
  “HONESTLY, who writes this sh!t”
  Hate to say it, but most New Zealanders are pretty thick and ill informed, so a colourful billboard would be a call to action for many of these dimwits. What’s in it for me and what’s for free would be their only other reason to vote. Scary!
  
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  August 19, 2023 11:54am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Waiting for a Labour billboard in my area.
  
  Free shit free shit free shit free shit free shit free shit free shit free shit free shit
  free shit free shit free shit free shit free shit free shit free shit free shit
  free shit free shit free shit free shit free shit free shit free shit free shit
  
  16 1
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  August 19, 2023 12:55pm
  - kowtow
    
    Steve
    
    You’ll only ever see that in a Labour ‘heartland’ electorate .
    “Our” neighbourhoods would have signs saying ‘Pay up , oppressing bastard running dog property owners” ( if there was any truth in their advertising.)
    
    Innit , comrade.
    
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    August 19, 2023 2:02pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Accurate, because shit is all that Labour can deliver to long suffering tax payers.
    
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    August 19, 2023 2:44pm
- cmm
  
  C’mon Maggie
  
  Surely you are appreciative of the creativity it brings out in the population.
  
  Earlier this week I was driving throuhgh the leftie shithole of East Christchurch and saw a Labour poster had been improved.
  
  “In you”. with the Ginger Wingnut’s picture next to it.
  
  See, that brought a smile to your face.
  
  PS for the Mods: You know how black people are allowed to use the N-word without it being offensive but others are not? Well I’m a red head with prominent ears so it is OK if I comment on the appearance of other Ginger Wingnuts.
  
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  August 19, 2023 2:31pm
- ProtectBabiesFromPredators
  
  Labour Billboards are now routinely “desecrated” in a similar fashion. Oh the pain of the Maori being disrespected!
  
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  August 19, 2023 7:24pm
NZer In Exile

Reluctant to use a password manager because you’d have all your eggs in one basket, so to speak?

I heard a good tip (from “All Things Secured” video channel).

Use “salted” passwords. IE generate and save a long password (Upper Case, Lower Case, Numbers and special characters) in the password manager, but add a memorised string of characters on the end of the password manager created password to create the full password for the service or site you are logging into, if that makes sense.

More on this topic here:
https://www.allthingssecured.com/reviews/password-managers/6-password-manager-hacks/
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August 19, 2023 11:28am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  All of my passwords are in a password protected Word Document.
  Paste them into a couple of flash drives and delete from computers.
  Safest way I know.
  
  6 1
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  August 19, 2023 12:58pm
  - cmm
    
    Yup
    Keeping your passwords in a password manager in the cloud always seems a bit off to me.
    
    It’s like some of those preppers (the stupid ones, not the wiser ones) who buy “physical gold,” but “store” it in an online account. When the shit hits the proverbial and the internet has crashed how will they get their gold?
    
    There is KeePass which is an open source (and hence vetted by thousands) password manager which allows you to control where and how the encryption is done and stored etc. https://keepass.info/
    
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    August 19, 2023 2:36pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Steve apparently password protected Word/Excel is weak protection. Ways to crack that can easily be found via a search engine.
    
    Having said that, at the end of the day even if you use stringent security/privacy methods (such as all the mentioned methods in the above link) it’s recommended you hide a bunch of one-time rescue codes on paper (EG for your physical 2FA Yubikeys, should you lose them). And yes, related to cmm’s comment, backing up your cloud based password manager to a local one (like KeepassXC) is a good idea (incase the cloud based one goes down, as unlikely as that may be).
    
    It gets a bit complicated but you don’t need to be an Einstein. I think it’s worth understanding the ins and outs. Having your identity stolen because of lax privacy and security will be a world of hurt. Some people have been messed up for years after that’s happened.
    
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    August 19, 2023 7:38pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Mine are on two or three flashdrives. Pretty hard to crack when they are not inserted into the computer. Only used quickly to find a forgotten password, then out again.
      
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      August 20, 2023 9:13am
- ProtectBabiesFromPredators
  
  Why confuse yourself? Same pin on all cards, same password on all accounts.
  
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  August 19, 2023 7:26pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    And use big tech platforms to your hearts delight as well. All safe, familiar, and convenient! They really care about your privacy! 🫠
    
    0 0
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    August 20, 2023 3:30pm
Ghost

RFK Jr claiming someone in the US government sent Ames anthrax from the CIA biolab at Fort Detrick to the two US senators attempting to block the Patriot Act in the weeks following 9/11:

Twitter

Full interview where he also talks about who killed his father and uncle.

“Almost all of the people associated with (JFK’s assassination) were involved with the Miami Station, which was the largest CIA Station at the time and was basically the Cuban Station”, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. said. “The people who were involved were people like Bill Harvey and David Atlee Phillips, who was clearly involved in my uncle’s assassination. By all evidence, he was Lee Harvey Oswald’s handler at the CIA. E. Howard Hunt made a confession. David Morales, who was the chief hitman, ran the Operation Phoenix program in Vietnam, he killed ten thousand people, he also gave a confession of being in Dallas.”

Twitter
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August 19, 2023 11:30am
Maggie Pie

Benefit fraudster and ex co-leader of the Greens reinvents herself with a chin scribble….

https://twitter.com/365MickeyBlue/status/1692323993368559791
19 1
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August 19, 2023 12:03pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Law Lecturer! Does she specialise in Benefit Fraud Law?
  
  20 1
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  August 19, 2023 1:02pm
  - H. Upmann
    
    At least she has hands-on experience with that rather than just theory.
    She has had time on the tools Steve.
    
    14 0
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    August 19, 2023 1:24pm
    - greybeard
      
      Yep, she ticks all the boxes to get a job like that, in a place like that.
      
      7 0
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      August 19, 2023 2:54pm
- ProtectBabiesFromPredators
  
  She lived the Kiwi dream, house in the bush, Truck tire for a window, all that stuff that goes with not making a difference while having mung beans for dinner, all attached to the looseness of Maori Values. now to jump on the Bandwagon. Screwing the Government was always advertised on Maori TV as “your right”. Boil that Toad!
  
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  August 19, 2023 7:33pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  🙄
  
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  August 19, 2023 7:43pm
Warren

Are Newhub, Three News or who ever owns them really in financial difficulty or is this just more of the same to getting taxpayers funds to continue in your way to support this rotten, corrupt politically Government like has been happening for the last near on 6 years .
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/politics/struggling-tv3-asks-govt-for-financial-relief
Maybe you could look at some of your highly paid staff and there continued belittling of National Leader Chris Luxon every chance they get to maybe realize this won’t be helping your ratings.
Any bets that Willie Jackson will use taxpayers funds before the General Election to bail them out.
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August 19, 2023 12:22pm
- Ghost
  
  Warner bros discovery three of its biggest owners are vanguard, blackrock and Advance Publications
  
  While the nz division might be struggling they can fund it.
  
  13 0
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  August 19, 2023 12:41pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  From my 9.20 comment:
  Willie Jackson may have said “Yes bro, but you must put on at least 2 hours a day of ads for Maori”
  
  9 1
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  August 19, 2023 1:06pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Hands up who wants their taxes to bail out legacy media (again).
  
  3 1
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  August 19, 2023 4:05pm
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    I assume you meant uptick if you want your taxes to bail out legacy media and downtick if you don’t.
    
    Media are meant to be supported by their advertisers and people willing to pay for their news not by taxpayers.
    
    1 0
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    August 19, 2023 7:29pm
Maggie Pie

Imagine the state we could find Auckland in if any of those moronic Green MP’s ever got near the so called…. ‘levers-of-power’ 🙁

If this can happen to somewhere like PARIS…..then why not Queen Street?

https://twitter.com/CatchUpFeed/status/1692625326357324072
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August 19, 2023 1:40pm
- Ghost
  
  You sure that isn’t the Remuera Sunday market?
  
  4 0
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  August 19, 2023 1:42pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    If Ricardo had his way…. that might not be too far from the truth.
    
    7 1
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    August 19, 2023 1:47pm
    - Ghost
      
      I thought if he had his way Remuera will be renamed Barbie Land and he’ll parade around as barbie all day long.
      
      6 0
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      August 19, 2023 3:04pm
- kowtow
  
  Next stop London.
  
  5 1
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  August 19, 2023 1:57pm
- ProtectBabiesFromPredators
  
  Your Link demonstrates your fortitude, your patience, and your requisite skill at analysis. I saw a video Yesterday of a Homeless encampment under Grafton Bridge of whacked individuals openly copulating. Bus Driver took the Video. Welcome to ‘Slab of Dead Meat’ Hipkins Utopia!.
  
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  August 19, 2023 7:38pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  “if any of those moronic Green MP’s ever got near the so called…. ‘levers-of-power’ ”
  
  See Cyriak’s “Chimpnology” for how that would pan out.
  
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  August 19, 2023 7:50pm
Warren

This may have been discussed this week already but will the Government and Labour Economists try and pin this this apparent recession on National because it’s always someone else’s fault never there own.
https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2023/08/reserve-bank-forecasts-deep-recession/
Very interesting read.
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August 19, 2023 2:14pm
Maggie Pie

What chance todays children?

When Chippie was Minister-for-Education, he appointed trans-activist Shaneel Lall as a member of his ‘Youth Advisory Group’.
Is it any wonder we find ourselves where we are today…

>>>Scroll down for the latest content from Herald reporter George Block

https://nzherald.co.nz/author/george-block/
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August 19, 2023 2:21pm
wsk12345

Just had my local National MP door knock next door. She had missed my place so I called her over for a chat. Nice woman, we violently disagreed on some things but not all, and she was pretty versatile in her knowledge. What I learned:
– removal of all cogovernance from 3 waters within first 100 days – she didn’t know about the taxpayers union rewrite but said that te mana o te wai statements will be gone. Ditto for RMA.
– she believes the vaccines are safe and effective but unethical to give to pregnant women. Didn’t get a direct response on mandates though she was shocked when I said I was fired from my work where I never go to the office ever, for not being vaxxed.
– lockdowns went too far. Didn’t say they wouldn’t have them and when I asked about the pandemic plan she pretty much agreed that we should have used it. She said closing the borders is better than shutting the country down but MIQ would need to be massively revised.
– she definitely endorsed my view that Soozie wiles, the glow worm expert is a lunatic who has undermined trust in public health.
– but she supported firing any medical people who said anything against the covid public health messages!
– Def not going for 100% renewables in electricity and personally (are you allowed a personal view – no not really) uncomfortable with the black rock deal from perspective that they are using is for greenwashing.
– all the talking points – law and order, economy blah blah. We know that stuff.
– and Luzon apparently stands for something. Working health system, economy, education etc.
17 1
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August 19, 2023 2:24pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  More evidence that National still fully support all of the covid policies and would likely do it again in a heartbeat, only more ‘efficiently’.
  
  She can believe what she wants about the safety of the vaccines, but she is 100% wrong. The risk/benefit for the vast majority of people is hugely negative. The more jabs you get, the more damage you are doing to your innate immune system, the more likely you are to get covid and the more likely you are to ‘die suddenly’.
  
  100% of ‘Died Suddenly’ Autopsy Cases Causally Connected to the COVID Vaccine, According to Review
  
  Not just some, but 100%. All of them. The vaccines are killing people. Maybe not straight away, but they are killing people.
  https://vigilantfox.substack.com/p/100-of-died-suddenly-autopsy-cases
  
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  August 19, 2023 3:41pm
  - wsk12345
    
    I agree 100%. I am unvaxxed. My friend has clots and my niece miscarried. Correlation of course. Don’t shoot the messenger.
    
    4 1
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    August 19, 2023 6:25pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Luzon is an island in the Philippines
  
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  August 19, 2023 9:02pm
cmm

Red-banner news from Herald:
Labour and Greens will share $2.5bn ETS with households.

Wow! They’re going to share $2.5bn with me! I’m going to get a share of $2.5bn! Awesome…

So how much of that am I going to get (let’s read further down the page…) oh dear. It says about 80 cents a week per household. That’s got to be a typo! How can $2.5bn turn into 80 cents a week? That’s not even one bucket of KFC a year!

So how do they get that money anyway? Well by taxing the populace (they can say it’s taxing the rich pricks or high carbon users, but, in the end, it comes out of all of our pockets). So how much tax must I pay to get my bucket of chicken?

$2.5bn divided by about 1.5 million households = about $1600 a year or about70 a fortnight. Huh?

Ok, let me explain to you, it’s kind of the opposite of a Christmas club.

You know how with a Christmas Club you put in a small amount each fortnight, then at the end of the year you have a massive pile of money to splurge on Christmas?

Well this is sort of the opposite: you put in a pile of money every fortnight, then at the end of the year you get less than a fortnight’s worth back.

Sweet deal eh? Want to sign up?
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August 19, 2023 2:24pm
I remember when

Has anyone else been surpised by the current demeanor of both Ian Foster and Sam Cane.
2 2
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August 19, 2023 2:35pm
- ProtectBabiesFromPredators
  
  Foster. Learning on the Job. Oh, how we suffered!
  No consequence, had to ’embed’. In other words, the Team took control.
  
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  August 19, 2023 7:43pm
Jack5

A water shortage is holding up 150 to 200 ships at the Panama Canal.

A drought has reduced the three rivers that feed the sets of locks on the canal.

The Panama Canal Authority supplies water to about half Panama’s 4.4 million people as well as to the canal locks. It is restricting flow of water to the locks.

The canal level has been lowered. This forces container ships to reduce total payload through the canal. Oil, LPG, and LNG gas tankers are also affected.

The canal authority aims to divert more rivers into the canal.
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August 19, 2023 2:38pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  They expanded the canal to take bigger ships. Did they increase the water supply??
  
  6 0
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  August 19, 2023 3:43pm
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    All the water for the operation of the locks comes from lake Gatun which is higher than both the Pacific locks and the Atlantic locks.
    
    Lake Gatun is fed by rain. Rivers might indirectly feed the locks but the locks themselves are not fed from rivers, the are fed by the lake.
    
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    August 19, 2023 6:35pm
- ProtectBabiesFromPredators
  
  Climate is a Bitch. Does anyone understand Climate?
  
  1 1
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  August 19, 2023 7:44pm
ClanMcleod

100% of ‘Died Suddenly’ Autopsy Cases Causally Connected to the COVID Vaccine, According to Review

As Dr. McCullough highlighted, there is now a substantial body of work – 800 peer-reviewed papers, to be precise – dedicated to vaccine-induced myocarditis. Notably, two cohort studies by Mansuguan and Beurgin & Mueller have indicated a worrying statistic: after vaccination, particularly with the second and third doses, 2.5% of participants showed evidence of heart damage. Given the sheer number of vaccine recipients worldwide, this translates to a significant number of individuals.
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August 19, 2023 2:57pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Apologies, here is the link.
  
  https://vigilantfox.substack.com/p/100-of-died-suddenly-autopsy-cases
  
  Astonishing, not one person in government or officialdom prepared to speak out about the massive excess mortality in NZ, in fact, they are still pushing boosters. Total madness.
  
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  August 19, 2023 3:15pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Still on about Seymour. Seems you can’t even speak without some radical nutbar getting offended.
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/police-don-t-identify-offence-after-seymour-referred-for-ministry-for-pacific-peoples-remark/ar-AA1fr2sP

Steve Hughes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHMoDt3nSHs
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August 19, 2023 3:36pm
Ghost

Luxon about to announce the national party list

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132776437/watch-live-national-party-announces-its-election-list
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August 19, 2023 3:52pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Election 2023: Christopher Luxon unveils list.
National Party leader Christopher Luxon will shortly unveil his party’s list for the 2023 election.
Um, that’s a silly Labour idea, to make and announcement about making an announcement about an announcement. Stop that shit Chris Luxon, it is childish. Make an announcement about the List straight up – no fucking around.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/election-2023-christopher-luxon-unveils-list/ar-AA1fteHG
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August 19, 2023 3:57pm
Maggie Pie

Looks like Michael Woodhouse was awarded the DCM.
7 1
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August 19, 2023 4:13pm
- Ghost
  
  How many people do we need in parliament with wood in their name? Soon to be replaced with luxon, luxton and luxton, unless that useless Jo doesn’t get in on the list.
  
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  August 19, 2023 4:17pm
  - ProtectBabiesFromPredators
    
    How to inject the populace with knowledge, Ghost?
    Less than 10% follow the News Cycle.
    
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    August 19, 2023 7:47pm
Sparrow

Two very interesting articles on the Bassett Brash Hyde blog. Some academics have questioned the Mãorification of government grants to research and the other confirms that the Priciples of the Treaty are a modern invention as is partnership. Neither in original Māori or English versions. Good read and thought provoking
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August 19, 2023 4:53pm
Surely Knott

Stuff article, “Be Kind to struggling mums”
the author writes in relation to the Dickason triple murder case and maternal mental health.

But this is where the article gets weird and dangerous.

She says, ““So already mothers were feeling that they couldn’t be honest about how they’re feeling.
…..
Grace moved to reassure mothers that although thoughts of harming children are not uncommon, acting on them is extremely rare.”

Are thoughts of harming children “not uncommon.”. Is it right to minimise the possible outcome as “extremely rare”.

Or are they dangerous thoughts and a warning sign to get help? If you or your partner are looking at the cable ties or googling how to harm your children or any other kind of fantasy or rumination that involves harming them, that is really not normal and not common. It’s dangerous, and you are pushed well past your limit, and you should get help. Child abuse in NZ is not rare. And your partner or parent or someone should ensure your kids are safe while you are in this mindset.

Like self harm and pre-meditated murder, no doubt the thoughts come before the deed. It doesn’t mean terrible thoughts always leads to suicide. But if you are thinking about killing yourself or harming someone it is also not ok to normalise it as “not uncommon”. It is a mental health danger sign that you are really not in a good space and need to get the help you need.

Stuff says, “What they have seen is a lot of judgemental comments, whether it’s on social media, or whether it’s in family circles -”

That judgement is because a mother killed her children. Mental health is not an excuse.
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August 19, 2023 5:18pm
- Che Guava
  
  “So already mothers were feeling that they couldn’t be honest about how they’re feeling.
  …..
  Grace moved to reassure mothers that although thoughts of harming children are not uncommon, acting on them is extremely rare.”
  
  If you changed “mothers” to “White men” and “children” to “Islamic immigrants” then wouldn’t this same argument justify the mosque shootings? Ridiculous when you think about it.
  
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  August 19, 2023 5:47pm
- ProtectBabiesFromPredators
  
  I cannot figure out whether her Eggs where carried by another, or whether they were her eggs.
  Did she carry to term, or did another on her behalf?
  Were the Children her DNA?
  
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  August 19, 2023 8:01pm
  - Surely Knott
    
    My understanding is she carried the babies but they were created using an egg donor, so not her dna, but presumably her husband’s dna
    
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    August 19, 2023 10:19pm
Maggie Pie

Anyone from Chch know what’s going down in Matai St?
Armed cops everywhere by the look of the vids on twitter 🙁
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August 19, 2023 7:16pm

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