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July 28, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 28 July 2023

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General Debate

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Chuck Bird

Where is the proof that most or all of the temperature increase is caused by CO2?

Climate change: July set to be the world’s hottest month on record as ‘global boiling’ era begins

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/climate-change-july-set-to-be-the-worlds-hottest-month-on-record-as-global-boiling-era-begins/E7NRFXIUJNEUNGGIPEZMEXLVKM/
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July 28, 2023 8:03am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Not in Wellington it’s not. Typical Eurocentric claptrap.
  
  Meanwhile, there are no stories that climate refugees are getting into boats and migrating to Africa.
  
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  July 28, 2023 8:05am
- Grunter
  
  It’s clearly a hoax. The more emotive the language becomes from the likes of the UN the more obvious it is. Just like the whole COVID BS…..
  
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  July 28, 2023 8:09am
  - Debsta
    
    But clearly the hoax language works on a lot of people sadly
    
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    July 28, 2023 8:55am
    - kowtow
      
      Yes simpletons like digesting simple explanations /excuses ie “climate change” .
      
      But climate is always changing .
      
      Current conditions have nbeen created by a combination of factors ; El Nino , atmospheric circulation and anti cyclones .
      
      Tell that to the idiots . Just like the Auckland floods ; climate change ! Nope , a unique combination of complex weather patterns .
      
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      July 28, 2023 9:23am
      - mawm
        
        Don’t forget the manipulation of the data; probably the biggest factor.
        
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        July 28, 2023 12:42pm
  - Rusty
    
    @Grunter,
    
    Strange how climate change seems to usually only happen in western countries like the USA, UK and Europe.
    
    The climate change/ global warming gods must really hate capitalism and industrialisation more than totalitarian regimes.
    
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    July 28, 2023 9:43am
    - Bullion
      
      China experienced its worst heat wave ever in 2022 and is currently experiencing another heat wave, as has much of Asia this year already.
      
      There is a bit of bias towards the Anglosphere and Europe in terms of news consumption in this country.
      
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      July 28, 2023 11:54am
      - Grunter
        
        “China experienced its worst heat wave ever in 2022….”
        Really? How do you know? Even worse than Confucius times (500 BC)? And before that even…?
        
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        July 28, 2023 3:52pm
      - Bullion
        
        It is the longest and hottest heatwave in China since national records began in 1961. According to weather historian Maximiliano Herrera, who monitors extreme temperatures around the world, it is the most severe heatwave recorded anywhere.
        
        “This combines the most extreme intensity with the most extreme length with an incredibly huge area all at the same time,” he says. “There is nothing in world climatic history
        
        https://www.newscientist.com/article/2334921-heatwave-in-china-is-the-most-severe-ever-recorded-in-the-world/
        
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        July 28, 2023 10:11pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        “weather historian Maximiliano Herrera”
        
        Looking at his twitter feed he appears to be a garden variety alarmist. I note his penchant for presenting maps of countries coloured in with red. Surprise surprise.
        
        I suggest instead use the satellite and weather balloon records for the whole earth for accurate data from 1979. To go back further you need a wide range of proxy records. What you’ll see is the alarmist hypothesis re Co2 is pure BS.
        
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        July 29, 2023 1:27pm
- imalwaysright
  
  The new covid.
  I’m predicting tin foil hats and suits to reflect the sunlight and protect us all.
  
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  July 28, 2023 8:13am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    IAR – you are correct, we even have the medical staff dancing on Tiktok for climate, same as they did for covid! Remember those surreal days? They’re back!!
    
    One of the most obnoxious trends in covid propaganda was the constant TikTok dance videos. Dancing politicians, dancing talk show hosts and dancing nurses all telling us to comply while frolicking around like maniacs. Well, it’s not over, because the dancing covid nurses are back, and now they’re here to tell us that accepting carbon controls is just as important as the mandates.
    
    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/dancing-covid-nurses-supported-draconian-mandates-switch-climate-change?utm_source=
    
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    July 28, 2023 12:49pm
    - Observer of Life
      
      😳🤦🏼🤦🏻‍♀️
      
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      July 28, 2023 9:16pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  Humor me for a moment and describe the evidence that would satisfy you.
  
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  July 28, 2023 8:15am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Truthful
    
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    July 28, 2023 8:24am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Evidence that would satisfy Dr Judith Curry and Dr Steven Koonin.
    
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    July 28, 2023 8:25am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Neither of whom denies that increased levels of CO2 and other greenhouse games in the atmosphere causes increased energy retention, leading to complexly interrelated physical effects including temperature increase. They disagree as to the amount of certainty we can have as to the precise extent of these effects, and whether those effects are really that bad, but not the basic cause and effect.
      
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      July 28, 2023 8:56am
      - Grunter
        
        AB – you’ve taken liberty with what Curry & Koonin have said. They have both categorically said that there is no climate crisis, that the climate models are completely inaccurate (eg Curry shows how volcanic activity is not included in the models). Both have also looked at the beneficial impacts of higher CO2 (accelerated plant growth etc).
        And there are plenty of other valid scientific data based arguments that show that the UN is a complete joke.
        
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        July 28, 2023 9:16am
      - JJ56
        
        The request was for proof that ‘most or all of the temperature increase is caused by CO2?’. From memory neither Curry nor Koonin would accept that, nor should anyone that has a healthy respect for the uncertainties, as any scientist should.
        
        Possible, but not likely.
        
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        July 28, 2023 9:20am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        Correct. I said most or all. Dr Curry reckons that CO2 causes about 25% of the warming.
        
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        July 28, 2023 9:21am
      - Albert_Ross
        
        Who’s claiming that “most or all of the temperature change is caused by CO2”?
        
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        July 28, 2023 9:34am
      - JJ56
        
        A_R try the IPCC as a starting point.
        
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        July 28, 2023 9:47am
      - Bullion
        
        Grunter, a quick google search shows that volcanic activity is included in some models.
        
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        July 28, 2023 12:09pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        “Who’s claiming that “most or all of the temperature change is caused by CO2”?”
        
        Almost all alarmists, until the spotlight is shone on them, then they dodge and weave.
        
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        July 29, 2023 1:31pm
  - mawm
    
    Quite simple – the release of all the unadjusted data, no more lying and allowing those that are critical of the accepted narrative to publish in the climate journals so the science can be examined.
    
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    July 28, 2023 12:48pm
  - JohnRidd
    
    1. The tropospheric hotspot for starters. The global warming theory says it should be there but it is not.
    2. Changes in CO2 concentration preceding changes in temperature. It is actually the other way around in all time scales.
    3. An acceleration in sea level rise. Despite claims that there has been an increase, closer inspection shows there continues to be a steady rise, however sea level rise is so slow it is very difficult to measure.
    
    I would also like to see supposed experts stop using arguments from authority and ignorance as if they are evidence.
    
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    July 28, 2023 4:35pm
- kowtow
  
  Most of Africa , swathes of Asia and there’s more than a few areas of Lil Ole New Zealand in dire poverty .
  A war in eastern Europe with nuclear power stations held hostage and possibly mined .
  National borders meaningless as they’re overwhelmed by illegal immigration.
  The west , broken by crime , obesity and narcotics pandemics .
  
  And what is the UN , the great and the good and nearly all politicians and media obsessing over ;
  
  the weather .
  
  It’s almost as if they have a plan ,to deliberately ignore real problems. many of which are their creation.
  
  Look , there’s a squirrel.
  
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  July 28, 2023 8:21am
- surfing
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  You just don’t want to accept science. Current warming is in line with predictions made many years ago. The current heatwave in Europe and the US is remarkable regardless of the cause.
  
  Otherwise, what is your explanation for the current warming? A one-off? Fabricated data? Corruption? Big money payoffs? Sun cycles? Or, you’ll quote the alarmists who are also wrong …. I view climate alarmists and deniers as one and the same. Both extremists, and both wrong.
  
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  July 28, 2023 8:28am
  - Grunter
    
    “The current heatwave in Europe and the US is remarkable regardless of the cause.”
    
    Utter nonsense. I personally experienced hotter temps in southern Europe in the early 90’s. I’ve got travel pic’s in front of various temperature clocks in a number of cities.
    
    One town in southern Spain was 48 degrees C in the shade. This year the same town hasn’t hit 40 yet…….
    
    It is complete BS. Go and follow some decent uncorrupt scientists and read the actual data not the MSM headlines
    
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    July 28, 2023 8:56am
    - surfing
      
      I’m pleased that you had a nice summer holiday back in the 90’s, but your sense of self importance is a little overblown.
      
      Yours is the classic conspiracist response that I predicted …and why the potty mouth? Are you angry? Do you believe anger trumps science?
      
      You claim the scientists are corrupt, faking data because it doesn’t suit your holiday photo. No point quoting science links to you, as you already decided the data is fabricated.
      
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      July 28, 2023 9:24am
      - Local Miller
        
        Yes, the scientists and the data are corrupted.
        
        They use a number of “tricks” to hide the real data, the most common of which are: “Since record keeping began in…” then they quote some recent year which is conveniently when world temperatures were at a low point, like 1979. The next one is adjusting the historical and recent temperature graphs, in the name of “correcting” the data. Interestingly, I’ve seen the before and after graphs, and the “corrections” are simply not logical. They also don’t align with reality. Like 1911 and 1936 which were two of the hottest years on record in recent history, and thousands dying from the heat and a lot of new paper articles and scientific records from the time support this, suddenly being shown as among the coldest years on record. Similarly the 1970s when the world was worrying about a possible new ice age because of falling temperatures suddenly being hotter than 1911 and 1936.
        The facts don’t support the narrative, so the facts have been changed. There are a lot of reputable people who are exposing this, but I suspect you’d not be interested in doing the research.
        
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        July 28, 2023 9:48am
      - Che Guava
        
        The biggest give away that they don’t believe what they are saying is that they want to silence dissent. As a general rule, that which cannot be question is a lie, or at best, is a proposition with only weak supporting evidence. Most of the corpus of science is open to public questioning and free debate (e.g., people can deny all they want that the earth is an oblate spheroid, that gravity is the reason why objects don’t float away, or the age of the universe etc.). However, deny AGW or the efficacy and safety of Covid vaccines, and there could be consequences out of all proportion to the fact that you are merely questioning what is depicted as being a consensus. This alone tells you what is bogus and what isn’t, because truth fears no inquiry and stands firm all on its own.
        
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        July 28, 2023 9:57am
      - surfing
        
        @ local miller
        
        The ultimate problem I have with your argument is that you have to accept the majority of scientists are corrupt, all or most climate data is fabricated, so that there is no possibility that you could possibly be wrong.
        
        You sound like a person who believes in God.
        
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        July 28, 2023 9:57am
      - wsk12345
        
        @surfing
        Sadly it seems that the majority of scientists are corrupt. You’ve only got to look at how many complied or said nothing during covid compared to how many spoke out despite a very high likelihood of being shut down, ridiculed, loss of career or job etc. same with the medical profession- absolutely paid for by virtue of having debt they need to pay.
        
        An old boss said to me 20 years ago that I should buy a house. I laughed, why, I don’t want a house. He said, once you have debt you’re in the system and we have you. That’s why people comply. (I saved and paid cash for my house).
        
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        July 28, 2023 10:40am
      - Taieri
        
        The ultimate problem I have with your argument is that you have to accept the majority of scientists are corrupt
        —————–
        
        You make a very valid point. It’s just not possible that the majority of climate scientist are corrupt.
        Now, what would be your definition of “woman”?
        
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        July 28, 2023 11:15am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        97% of scientists agree – BS
        CO2 causes rising temperatures – BS; it’s actually the other way around
        CO2 is bad for the environment – BS; see above
        The earth has a thermostat and if we pay enough taxes, we can turn the dial down, or – even more laughably – “limit the rise to exactly 1.5 degrees”
        Climate alarmists have never fabricated data – hahahaha!
        
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        July 28, 2023 8:29pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      https://alexepstein.substack.com/p/the-myth-of-an-overheated-planet?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=513601&post_id=135493211&isFreemail=true&utm_medium=email
      
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      July 28, 2023 3:06pm
  - Scooter
    
    Surfing do you live in Europe? It’s not remarkable. From personal experience around this time (mid July) where I’ve been in Europe it’s been late 30’s for the last 10 years. The heat has now broken but sure there maybe a day here and there where it increases in August.
    
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    July 28, 2023 9:19am
    - surfing
      
      Fortunately we have the internet, so you don’t need to be somewhere to know what is happening there!
      
      Again, like the above person, you think your personal anecdote is more valuable than the cumulative collection of weather satellites, computers, weather monitoring stations, and expert scientists.
      
      You CO2 warming deniers are equally as bad as the climate alarmists… both groups deny the science.
      
      The science could change in future, but we just go with what we know today. I’m flexible in that respect, but people like you just think you are right and will always be right.
      
      https://climate.copernicus.eu/european-heatwave-july-2023-longer-term-context
      
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      July 28, 2023 9:40am
      - Gertie
        
        Surfing, in 1978 I learnt all about global warming in fifth form geography. Totally fell for it. When my mates bought a $38000 bach at the beach I thought they were nuts. That bach is just fine and worth a fortune now.
        I am farming so the seasons and weather mean a lot to me. It has got a bit warmer since I came here in 93, but jeez the last 3 winters have got a lot colder again. Summer was about as cold as we have ever had. I think after this covid thing we need to be incredibly suspect of politicians, financiers, scientists and the media. We got fooled. Obviously fooled. By god are we paying for it now. The bank that told me interest rates could NOT go over 6% is currently charging 9.
        Be suspicious Surfer. We are their slaves. They need us broke but invested enough to keep paddling away on the treadmill.
        
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        July 28, 2023 12:26pm
  - JJ56
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl
    
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    July 28, 2023 9:26am
  - bennerg
    
    Surfing, you stated:
    
    “in line with predictions made many years ago”
    
    You mean these ones ..
    
    https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-of-failed-eco-pocalyptic-predictions/
    
    “Modern doomsayers have been predicting climate and environmental disaster since the 1960s. They continue to do so today. None of the apocalyptic predictions with due dates as of today have come true.”
    
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    July 28, 2023 9:36am
    - surfing
      
      Strawman argument … you claim I am referring to alarmists even though I made no such claim.
      
      But, I did say…
      “CO2 warming deniers are equally as bad as the climate alarmists… both groups deny the science”
      
      So, I agree with you that the alarmists are wrong! Bit awkward for you now, caught out using strawman.
      
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      July 28, 2023 9:53am
      - wsk12345
        
        That’s the problem – the alarmists are the ones getting media coverage and include government-funded organisations.
        
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        July 28, 2023 10:43am
      - bennerg
        
        Surfing:
        
        “The ultimate problem I have with your argument is that you have to accept the majority of scientists are corrupt, all or most climate data is fabricated, so that there is no possibility that you could possibly be wrong.”
        
        Almost all scientists involved with “climate research” are employed by govenrment funded organisations (or Bill Gates, or Soros etc), and they way that works, is that they get directed on how to research, and what outcome is expected.
        
        There are few are able to work completely freely. And that is why we get only retired (or now sadly passed away) experts countering the current narrative. David Bellamy, Augie Auer, etc, experts in their field, but not having an income dependent on saying the right things.
        
        So I say the majority of scientists have been corrupted by virtue of the system they work in. As individuals they need to support their families, pay their mortgages, and pay their bills. We now have a system where they must say and do what allows them to work in their chosen field. And if you want proof of that, just look at how anyone is their field, also medicine, who steps out of the “approved narrative” gets treated.
        
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        July 28, 2023 10:51am
      - bennerg
        
        And to make sure that the rational thought of Augie Auer is not lost, back in 2007 he was reported as saying:
        
        ” a combination of misinterpreted and misguided science, media hype, and political spin had created the current hysteria and it was time to put a stop to it”, adding “It is time to attack the myth of global warming.” According to Auer:
        
        Water vapour was responsible for 95 per cent of the greenhouse effect, an effect which was vital to keep the world warm. …If we didn’t have the greenhouse effect the planet would be at minus 18 °C but because we do have the greenhouse effect it is plus 15 °C, all the time. The other greenhouse gases: carbon dioxide, methane, nitrogen dioxide, and various others including CFCs, contributed only five per cent of the effect, carbon dioxide being by far the greatest contributor at 3.6 per cent. It would be like trying to increase the temperature of bath tub full of water using one drop from an eye dropper.”
        
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        July 28, 2023 11:16am
      - bennerg
        
        Surfing, you are gaslighting. My initial reply was on your comment on predictions, and for clarity I provided a snippet of the article linked to.
        
        Nothing more.
        
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        July 28, 2023 11:18am
      - Bullion
        
        A big issue is that predictions normally come with a confidence interval range, and rather than focussing on the median or highlighting the range media often gravitate to the most extreme predictions – especially for headlines which many people don’t read past.
        
        It was the same for Covid – highest possible range x number of people could die*
        
        *if no one takes any measures and just lives normally, and infectious and case fatality rate is in the upper range.
        
        It sucks because it just results in people mistrusting models when they are useful tools.
        
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        July 28, 2023 12:25pm
      - Bullion
        
        @bennerg
        
        It just so happens that scientists employed by fossil fuel companies were very good at predicting “the impact of fossil fuels on climate change.”
        
        https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2023/01/harvard-led-analysis-finds-exxonmobil-internal-research-accurately-predicted-climate-change/
        
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        July 28, 2023 12:29pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Just like covid deniers and anti vaxxers eh surfing?
    
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    July 28, 2023 11:36am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    El gato malo, totally on point as usual.
    
    I am an environmentalist.
    
    I value clean air, clean water, forests, rivers, lakes, jungles, and wide-open wild spaces and well-used, well-conserved means of enjoying them. Always have. Probably always will.
    
    No doubt the vast majority of people feel similarly.
    
    And this is why I find the issues raised by so many of the self-described “greens” today who have been so subsumed and outright eaten by the “anthropogenic global warming” story so problematic:
    
    Because they have become the enemies of actual environmentalism and ecology by setting their goals and demands in opposition to those which actually support the environment.
    
    And this has become absurd and malformed to the point of being truly dangerous and counterproductive.
    
    These dogmatic eco-warriors have become an actual threat to a cleaner, greener world, and they are sucking all the air out of the room, the money out of the system, and both discrediting the valid aims of what I view to be an important bottoms-up movement and championing top-down actions and mandates that will set it back a century if they don’t knock it off.
    
    Their watermelon religion run by green-grifters and totalitarians is not progress, it’s anti-progress. It seeks to champion only the most expensive, unreliable, and unsound means of energy production to thereby make energy hideously expensive. This will impoverish us all.
    
    https://brownstone.org/articles/the-betrayal-of-the-environment-by-environmentalists/
    
    An outstanding read on the whole topic.
    
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    July 28, 2023 11:44am
    - Drone
      
      ClanMcleod I stumbled across this on YT made me feel a bit like Steve Otto (North Shore) trawling for entertainment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIXncWdwS-s&ab_channel=InstituteofPublicAffairs
      Longish watch but interesting irrespective of your personal view.
      
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      July 28, 2023 5:51pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Two choices:
    
    [1] Post on here the links to the raw data that show this warming. I do not want reports of someone’s opinion. Please ensure that data covers the last 1500 years.
    
    [2] Or join me and the Doctor in the Tardis, and we’ll go back to selected periods in the last 1200 years. Periods in which it was so hot, you could not even be outside for more than 5 minutes otherwise you would faint and cook. Left unattended for 45 minutes and your family would have roast meals for a week.
    
    Periods where it was so hot that both the Seine and Rhine rivers dried up!
    
    The Seine river is nearly 200 metres wide at its widest point and an average 9.5 metres deep.
    
    The Rhine river is 150 metres in width and 20-25 metres deep.
    
    Since there is no record of Teletubbies, Borg, or species 8472 invading earth and taking all the water, we are forced to conclude that natural weather cycles are responsible.
    
    I am aware of a lot of data on various science websites, but under a 3 second google search I find:
    
    Has the Rhine ever dried up before?
    In February 1585, the River Rhine at Basel became a runnel, leaving large parts of the river bed com- pletely dry – a memorial shooting competition was held on the desiccated part of the river, and the famous physician Felix Platter even wrote a few verses about the unusual aspect of the Rhine
    
    I’ll park the Tardis as this link should serve as well.
    
    https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiTjKnnkrCAAxWlwjgGHeTPDEIQFnoECBMQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hist.unibe.ch%2Fe11168%2Fe52524%2Fe69145%2Fe186327%2Fe188630%2F27_Pfister-al-LowWaters-HSJ06_ger.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0ol-bnlnujpD3L0XPjhe-a&opi=89978449
    
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    July 28, 2023 12:40pm
  - mawm
    
    Current warming is in line with predictions made many years ago.
    
    Do you have a link to those predictions and give us a side-by-side comparison with the unadjusted data. Otherwise it’s just another load of B/S from you.
    
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    July 28, 2023 12:57pm
  - JohnRidd
    
    Hi Surfing.
    
    You said ” Current warming is in line with predictions made many years ago. ”
    
    Sorry but this is false.
    
    Observed warming is less than half the model projections.
    In 1990 (or perhaps 1991) it was predicted by the IPCC the warming would be 0.3 deg C increase per decade.
    
    The UAH lower troposphere data ( which is arguably the most reliable dataset) is showing 0.13 deg C increase per decade.
    (I am working from memory but I am pretty confident of those numbers. )
    
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    July 28, 2023 4:46pm
- My
  
  Global Warming Catastrophe –
  A bigger con from the UN – Press – Politicians – Elites – academics than Covid.
  
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  July 28, 2023 8:29am
- Mark Hanley
  
  As the anthropogenic climate disaster narrative falls apart, the desperation of those milking the system will increase.
  
  Expect to see more of these fanatic articles but we’re also thankfully seeing more scientists exposing the fraud.
  
  It will be economic sabotage if the NZ government eliminates carbon policies so the clever thing to do is include all nz’s carbon sequestration (forests, wetlands, pasture, and sea ) in the carbon equation which will demonstrate NZ is carbon negative.
  
  This is what the exceptionally bright, talented, experienced, and proven manager, Christopher Luxon is advocating.
  
  There is a very good chance Christopher Luxon will be the best prime Minister NZ ever had!
  
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  July 28, 2023 8:31am
  - The Redbaiter
    
    Mark Hanley- ” the exceptionally bright, talented, experienced, and proven manager, Christopher Luxon”
    
    The comments section on Kiwiblog is always interesting reading because in most cases the opinions expressed are frank and honest.
    
    IMHO the kind of fawning propaganda as produced so often by Mr Hanley is out of place.
    
    Secondly, the simple fact is that neither Mr Luxon or any other politician has any idea how they are going to reduce NZ’s CO2 emissions by 60 million tonnes. The measures Mr Luxon is talking about represent such a small fraction of this amount they are completely insignificant.
    
    Honest scientists have proclaimed this target as completely impossible, and the truth is you don’t need to be a scientist to understand this. Just someone who has an average ability to do maths.
    
    In reality, there is no way you can reduce NZ’s CO2 emissions by 30 million tonnes by 2030 and 60 million tonnes by 2050. Those who say they believe it can be done, or worse, say they are 100% committed to it, are being completely dishonest.
    
    It is just the most outrageous scam, and no person with any self respect would have any part of it.
    
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    July 28, 2023 12:46pm
    - Mark Hanley
      
      Another back to basics explanation for the Matt Long, red baiter, Steve Todd, and Tom Hunter poster.
      
      The average kiwiblogger can work out no-one cares whether you reduce CO2, and no country is meeting their targets.
      
      The average kiwiblogger can work out the optics of reducing CO2 are important because abandoning the pretence will leave NZ open to attack from our competitors.
      
      The average kiwiblogger can work out that NZ already meets our C02 targets we just need to show that to the world.
      
      The average kiwiblogger can work out that changing the equation to meet our c02 targets has a negligible cost.
      
      Ps Matt Long, red baiter, Steve Todd, and Tom Hunter – isn’t all that logging in and out of kiwiblog boring?
      
      Pps. I’m flattered that someone has so much respect for my posts that they spend such a huge amount of time trying to (unsuccessfully) rebuke them.
      
      Pps. I’m still observing to work out if the pseudonyms above are connected to the infamous Mike
      
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      July 28, 2023 2:13pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  I don’t know what evidence you want. July will be likely be recorded as the highest mean temperature since records began in New Zealand. Unless things change in August, this winter will be recorded as the highest mean temperature in New Zealand.
  
  What is the point in getting triggered every time a news article points out the blindingly obvious?
  
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  July 28, 2023 8:32am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Check my answer at 8:25. Where is your evidence? What are your qualifications? Are as good as Dr Judith Curry and Dr Steven Koonin?
    
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    July 28, 2023 8:40am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      How many names would you like, of people whose qualifications are at least as good as those of Drs Curry and Koonin?
      
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      July 28, 2023 9:38am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I don’t know or care who they are. My comment was not addressing the causes of increasing mean temperatures or policies to address those increases. However to claim that mean temperatures are NOT increasing at an accelerating rate is simply daft. By all means debate climate change policies. I have made my views on New Zealand policies very clear.
      
      However the joint is getting warmer, and warmer faster. In Christchurch it is obvious without even consulting the thermometer records, which simply reinforce what everyone subjectively experiences daily.
      
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      July 28, 2023 1:21pm
      - General
        
        “No. The evidence that the vaccines were ineffective emerged quickly”
        
        You still got them though didn’t you? Some of us worked that out MUCH faster than you
        
        Almost every politician, media personality, doctor, nurse and scientist in this country still tries to state that is a ‘conspiracy theory’
        
        What does that suggest to you about other ‘settled’ topics of debate?
        
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        July 28, 2023 2:43pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        It is unfortunate that benedictis analogy is correct.
        
        The adern years have damaged NZ society more than any other.
        
        The huge extent of the covid Jab fraud will leave us all doubting anything we’re told by anyone.
        
        That doubt will inhibit progress and will cost more lives in the future as it will turbo charge the antivaxxers who have been proven right…ONE TIME!
        
        THANKS JACINDA.
        
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        July 28, 2023 2:57pm
  - Grunter
    
    Are you following NIWA data? Proven so many times to have altered and deleted historic data. These guys are crooks and have been caught changing the historic data. Ian Wishart has all the details if you really want to check it out.
    
    But hey – if you want to keep believing the climate BS go for it. But it is blindingly obvious its a hoax.
    
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    July 28, 2023 9:22am
  - JJ56
    
    Benedict, it has been getting warmer since the little ice age, added to by the current El Nino, no question about that, but the last little bit mainly caused by anthropogenic CO2?
    
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    July 28, 2023 9:31am
  - Opie
    
    How can it be?
    
    We have had at least 15 frosts here this winter, whereas last year in total I can remember no more than 2.
    
    This winter is remarkably colder than last year, more in line with a normal winter season.
    
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    July 28, 2023 9:37am
  - bennerg
    
    Benedict
    
    “recorded as the highest mean temperature since records began in New Zealand”
    
    This seems to be a technique of constructively ignoring past temperature events. “Recorded history” seems to be selectively chosen to support a narrative.
    
    You need to go behind the MSM presentation of data.
    
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    July 28, 2023 9:40am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Same as with covid. Remember when “masks worked and the vaccines were safe and effective”?
      
      Same shit, different gig.
      
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      July 28, 2023 11:48am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Remember those damn conspiracy theorists claiming that the covid scam would pivot to the climate scam? No? Here’s Klaus Schwab’s daughter Nicole to show you how it all works!
        
        https://twitter.com/wideawake_media/status/1684499470812160001?s=20
        
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        July 28, 2023 12:44pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        No. The evidence that the vaccines were ineffective emerged quickly. In 6 months. There is no data that shows that climate change is a hoax.
        
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        July 28, 2023 1:28pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        BY: “There is no data that shows that climate change is a hoax.”
        
        There is no data that shows God doesn’t exist. That doesn’t mean “he” (in the form of various human descriptions) exists.
        
        Also define what you mean by “climate change”. I agree that the climate changes and there is no data to refute this! But so what!
        
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        July 29, 2023 1:35pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Yeah I don’t rely on mainstream media. I have been advising clients on climate change policy compliance since 2003. I have consulted every data set known to man. I am simply not going to get involved in any serious debate that global mean temperatures are not increasing or that the whole thing is a hoax. I am just not.
      
      The whole “its a hoax” thing has always bemused me. One explanation is that people (quite rightly) conclude that many climate change policies are damaging and stupid. They then cry “it is a hoax”, rather than critiquing the policies.
      
      If you keep on crying “hoax” you will never win (because you are wrong). And the crazies will walk over you with their idiotic policies.
      
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      July 28, 2023 1:26pm
      - General
        
        You took gene therapy shots because you’re not as bright as you think yourself to be. It’s not calling it a hoax to suggest it’s being massaged and manipulated.
        
        Earlier this month, the 2022 Nobel Physics Laureate Dr. John Clauser slammed the ‘climate emergency’ narrative as a “dangerous corruption of science that threatens the world’s economy and the well-being of billions of people”. Inevitably, the punishments have begun. A talk that Dr. Clauser was due to give to the International Monetary Fund on climate models has been abruptly cancelled, and the page announcing the event removed from the IMF site.
        
        Who are you again? LOL
        
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        July 28, 2023 2:50pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        You were once sure that the vaccines were ‘safe and effective’ because you believed what you had been told. The data was irrefutable. The ‘science’ was unquestionable. In time, you’ll come to realise the same applies to this scam.
        
        I’m not saying the climate doesn’t change, of course it does. I’m saying that as with covid, there is a narrative in play that is not based on the truth or science.
        I can’t prove what the reason behind this is, but I’m pretty sure it’s related to the sham covid narrative. Designed to totally destroy our current way of life and ‘build back better’ via a ‘great reset’.
        
        Whatever it’s all about will be revealed eventually, but compelling us all to drive EVs, stop eating meat, convert our farms to trees and live in 15 minute cities will have zero impact on the climate. It WILL make life a misery for the majority of people. That part I’m sure of.
        
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        July 29, 2023 8:03am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        BY: “I am simply not going to get involved in any serious debate that global mean temperatures are not increasing or that the whole thing is a hoax.”
        
        Serious scientists in the field don’t dispute that at all. The planet has been this warm many times before (in human history as well). Current temps are not alarming or unusual. Neither is the rate of temp increase. Attribution to human Co2 is the issue. If you listen to atmospheric physicists who specialise in understanding Co2, you’ll realise the alarmist hypothesis is half baked. This is why the models do not match observations (no matter how much alarmist cheer leading media and alarmist gritting orgs try to spin the data).
        
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        July 29, 2023 1:43pm
  - I remember when
    
    There is certainly less frequent snow and a reduction in the number, and severity, of frosts.
    However it seems that to a degree these have been replaced by increased wind chill factor.
    It has been a bloody miserable winter to date.
    Apart from the GHG arguments, there doesn’t seem to be any attempt to explain the reasons this is happening.
    How much is the cloud cover responsible, are cloudy days more frequent, is rain reducing the time snow remains on the ground, are freezing mornings followed by largely cloudless days less common?
    Is CO2, or sometimes methane, where the science ceases to be debated.
    
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    July 28, 2023 9:59am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Talking about weather events within our own lifetimes is totally meaningless in any discussion about whether or not man made human activity has any substantial bearing on what the climate does.
      
      We are a blip in time and the universe. The idea we can substantially change the climate is as silly as it is narcissistic.
      The alternatives on offer are hardly appealing. Freeze to death and/or starve to death? Of course, as with most things, it is the weakest and poorest who will do all the suffering.
      
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      July 28, 2023 11:52am
  - surfing
    
    They’ll say, the scientists are corrupt, the data is invented, the alarmists are the true representation of the mainstream scientific view because it suits the deniers when the alarmists are wrong.
    
    It doesn’t matter how many record warm years we have in a row, they’ll say the scientists made it up.
    
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    July 28, 2023 10:02am
    - bennerg
      
      Surfing
      
      You confuse climate and weather. Our records from 1979 till now represent weather patterns, not climate.
      
      Climate is what happens over much longer periods, as it takes into account significant events such as volcanoes (eg Tonga) which current so called “climate models” do not.
      
      If you look at the much longer term changes as documented in various sources such as ice drillings, tree rings etc, there are large changes over centuries of time. This is climate.
      
      Using changes in short term weather patterns to justify major econmic and political change is simply jiggery pokery. It’s political nonsense, and a thin facade over a political elite trying to further their ends. Certainly not those of the world as a whole.
      
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      July 28, 2023 10:59am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Surfing – do you mean just like happened during covid? How did that turn out? How did the ‘science deniers’ fare during the last 2 years? How did the ‘experts’ fare?
      
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      July 28, 2023 11:54am
  - Bruce C
    
    I have a weather station at home. It creates a cloud based journal of data. It has been there for long enough to allow year to year comparisons across a few years. June and July 2023 have both been colder than the same months in 2022. The variations are minimal. Quantifiably not the warmest winter at my house. I wonder where and how data is collected to make the case for warmest on record? Even if it were so, is that actually a bad thing? There is snow on the Tararuas and the Maldives have not been submerged. We have been lied to for decades. If variation in climate were a genuine risk the rational response would be to fortify infrastructure. If things are feeling hotter its most likely due to the gaslighting.
    
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    July 28, 2023 10:08am
    - bennerg
      
      50 years ago as a child we camped at Mt Maunganui. We had a favourite diving rock, when at high tide the water lapped just over the top.
      
      So earlier this year I visited that same location at high tide, and guess what, the rock was still there, and the water gently lapped just over the top. No change.
      
      I know it is just one instance, but gives a perspective to the radical claims that the sea levels are rising, threatening our shorelines, sinking our cities in a time frame less than the next 50 years. This is consequently affecting our insurances, council planning etc.
      
      All based on a lie.
      
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      July 28, 2023 11:04am
    - kowtow
      
      Talking of infrastucture ;
      
      does anyone remember how the alarmists used to treat us to photos of the bubbling waters of the Tuvalu “borrow pits” by way of climate Armaggedon .
      
      Not so much anymore .
      
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/305717/tuvalu's-filled-in-borrow-pits-'beautiful‘
      
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      July 28, 2023 11:49am
  - Burtland
    
    if you are worried about global warming then stop eating red meat
    – it will apparently change the weather
    
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    July 28, 2023 10:45am
    - Ghost
      
      Best way to end global warming is too appease the climate God with more tax
      
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      July 28, 2023 10:46am
  - Taieri
    
    I don’t know what evidence you want.
    ————
    
    My power bill. My electricity consumption has not changed in the last 30 years. It’s a very local evidence of course, but then, the climate is also a local phenomenon.
    
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    July 28, 2023 11:18am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Unless things change in August, this winter will be recorded as the highest mean temperature in New Zealand.
    
    Clearly you arrived in NZ long after the high temperatures of the early – mid 1970’s. 1979 is where the “official” record starts.
    
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    July 28, 2023 12:44pm
  - Raphael
    
    As Ian Wishart frequently points out, NIWA regularly ignores all historical data.
    
    I will also note that following last’s years no-snow season at Mt Raupaehu and all the alarmists saying that this is now the way it will be there, they have had a bumper year with some of the best, and earliest snow they have had.
    
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    July 28, 2023 12:47pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Not in Wellington, Benedict. It’s been pretty cold here this July, & I’ve spent plenty of them here.
    
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    July 28, 2023 6:37pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Hands up who wants it to be colder, more miserable, and with worse weather.
  Who wants lower crop yields?
  Who wants more people dying because of cold weather?
  Who wants to rely on solar panels for their power when some bad storm takes out some infrastructure.
  Seriously, who believes we’ll stop getting bad weather if we stop using FF?
  If CO2 from FF is the reason why the planet is slightly warmer than it was at the peak of the little ice age (big if), thank God for FF.
  
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  July 28, 2023 8:35am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Those Captain’s Call decisions of oil and gas exploration forced on us by Ardern need to be reversed.
    No select committees, no Parliament vote – nothing. So do it again and reverse it.
    She did not have that right. Something from the World of Tyranny.
    
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    July 28, 2023 8:58am
  - surfing
    
    You’re diverting the argument into something else.
    
    The fact the world is warming is just what is happening.
    
    The costs and benefits of a warming world is another argument. I agree with you , to a certain degree I personally prefer to live in a warmer world.
    
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    July 28, 2023 10:04am
    - Chris Nisbet
      
      Hmm, really? Alarmists like Antonio claim that the world is boiling and we need to stop using FF as soon as possible to sort this out. They’re the ones claiming the world is hotter than ever and therefore the climate is worse than ever, and I would argue that these claims are nonsense. Even IPCC AR6 struggles to make any massive claims that storms and rainfall and suchlike are being affected by FF emissions, let alone that the effects are -ve.
      
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      July 28, 2023 11:15am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        As explained by the excellent Dr Meryl Nass. We are in the middle of a soft coup via a combination of the UN, WHO and WEF.
        
        Lunatic ‘climate’ policy was a predicted follow on from the equally insane covid policy.
        
        Dr. Meryl Nass explains how the WHO’s proposed pandemic treaty will enable the WHO “to take over jurisdiction of everything in the world by saying that climate change, animals, plants, water systems [and] ecosystems are all central to health”.
        
        In addition to that, it will remove human rights protections, enforce censorship and digital passports, require governments to push a single “official” narrative, and enable the WHO to declare “pandemics” on a whim.
        
        “We’re undergoing a soft coup… under the pretext of pandemic preparedness and the biosecurity agenda.”
        
        These bizarre events of recent years are not unconnected, they are not random, they are not organic.
        
        https://twitter.com/wideawake_media/status/1684522454234943489?s=20
        
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        July 28, 2023 12:07pm
  - Jethrod
    
    What’s FF please?
    
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    July 28, 2023 10:46am
    - Chris Nisbet
      
      Fossil fuel
      
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      July 28, 2023 11:00am
  - Burtland
    
    the average annual temp difference between Dunedin and Kaitaia is 6.5 deg.
    – so is a 1.5deg change really an existential threat
    
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    July 28, 2023 11:13am
- Inandout
  
  CB, I am sure the climies are aware of how oil benefits us all.
  https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/partial-list-over-6000-products-made-from-one-barrel-oil-steve-pryor
  
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  July 28, 2023 8:48am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That list would make the climies have a thermonuclear meltdown.
    
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    July 28, 2023 9:01am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It is a hoax, a bandwagon, a gravy train.
  On Wednesday NZer in Exile posted this link:
  
  https://joannenova.com.au/2023/07/european-heatwaves-soldiers-died-in-the-heat-in-1160-rivers-ran-dry-in-1303-animals-fell-dead-in-1393/
  
  There is a graph showing the Medieval Warming Period, followed by the Mini Ice Age. The climate change idiots are talking shit.
  I go back to Exit Glacier in Seward Alaska. There are markers where the Glacier face used to be. What they don’t tell you is the Glacier used to calve into the ocean – Resurrection Bay, some 12 miles away. That Glacier has been melting since way before the Industrial Revolution.
  OK, tin foil hats back in please.
  
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  July 28, 2023 8:54am
- Chris Nisbet
  
  The world has apparently already spent trillions of dollars trying to fix the climate.
  I’d be interested to learn how much difference to the climate this ‘investment’ has made. If we believe the likes of Antonio, basically no difference at all. In fact, we’ve progressed from warming, to heating, and now to boiling!
  Have we seen any decrease in the rate of increase in CO2 concentration due to all these efforts? Nope.
  Has FF usage even gone down? Nope.
  Just how many trillions of dollars would need to be spent to even start to see an impact on CO2 levels, let alone any measurable change to the climate (assuming we agree CO2 levels control the climate)?
  Can we imagine what sort of improvements could be made to people’s lives if those many trillions of dollars were spent on something useful instead?
  I don’t need to believe or not believe in the religion that is ‘Global Boiling!’ to know that we’re not spending our money wisely.
  
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  July 28, 2023 9:23am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Chris Nisbet – don’t ask tricky questions!
    
    Sen. John Kennedy, R-La., left one Biden administration official without words Wednesday when he pressed him to answer one simple question: How much would spending $50 trillion in American taxpayer money to become carbon-neutral lower global temperatures?
    
    “If we spend $50 trillion to become carbon-neutral by 2050 in the United States of America, how much is that going to reduce world temperatures?” Kennedy asked Deputy Energy Secretary David Turk during a Senate Appropriations Subcommittee hearing.
    
    Strangely enough, David Turk couldn’t supply an answer, other than to mutter “we need to do something……”
    
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/kennedy-stumps-biden-official-fifty-trillion-price-tag-climate-change
    
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    July 28, 2023 12:12pm
- edhunter
  
  https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/why-progress-is-environmentalism
  The above link succinctly puts into words way better than I, developed nations vs developing nations, needs vs wants.
  
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  July 28, 2023 10:57am
- KiwiSapper
  
  “…….the world’s hottest month on record…….”
  
  Really? Since when? I followed the links in the Ferals witter but failed to find any date earlier than the 1940’s . In fact if one delves into what is made available I found this statement……”“The last few weeks have been rather remarkable and unprecedented in our record” based on data that goes back to the 1940s, Buontempo said.”
  Let me know when they start looking at a time span of more than a 60 year variation.
  
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  July 28, 2023 11:01am
  - Chris Nisbet
    
    I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that the start of this particular record doesn’t include any of the extremely hot weather that occurred in the 30’s and even earlier.
    
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    July 28, 2023 11:18am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Or:
      
      February 1973: Pressures were unusually high over New Zealand, and this was one of the driest months on record, besides being sunny and warm with some exceptionally high temperatures. January had also been dry, and the greater part of the country made little pasture growth. Drought conditions became fairly general.
      
      Rainfall: For the country as a whole rainfall was only 25% of the normal value. Negligible amounts of less than 10% of the normal were recorded over about half the North Island, mainly in western districts; also in many inland districts of the South Island, in Nelson and in Marlborough, and in coastal North Otago. [Stratford Mountain House had 4mm, barely 1% of average]. In the North Island this month was not as dry as January 1908. The only areas with rainfall about normal were Fiordland, with Stewart Island and parts of South Westland, where nearly all the rain fell in the first 10 days; and also some of Gisborne and northern Hawkes Bay. Sites with nil rainfall included Manaia, Motueka (Riwaka), Appleby and Blenheim Aero. Milford Sound reached its average with 595mm, nearly all of it falling in the first week.
      
      Temperatures: Temperatures were mainly above normal by up to 3C, with highest departures over inland South Island districts and the Canterbury Plains. It was very warm east of the ranges from the 4th to the 7th. Until this time the record high temperature for New Zealand was 38.4C at Ashburton, 19/1/1956. However, on the 7th most stations in Canterbury exceeded this value, and a new record of 42C was established at Christchurch, Rangiora and Jordan (Awatere valley). New station records were also established in parts of Marlborough, Nelson, Hawkes Bay and Gisborne.
      
      [Some maxima: 37.7 (Oamaru Aero), 39.0 (Waimate), 39.8 (Timaru Aero), 40.4 (Lincoln), 41.6 (Christchurch Gardens), 42.4 (Rangiora), 41.3 (Ashburton), 37.1 (Hanmer), 42.3 (Jordan), 37.8 (Blenheim Aero), 36.3 (Nelson Aero), 39.2 (Ruatoria – North Island record).]
      
      Sunshine: Sunshine was mainly 30-70 hours above normal. Records were broken at Auckland with 267 hours and Nelson with 281. However, sunshine was only about normal in eastern bay of Plenty with Gisborne and Hawkes Bay, and also in parts of Otago and Southland.
      
      [Some totals: Kaitaia 228, Kerikeri 238, Whangarei 240, Leigh 262, Auckland 267, Tauranga 261, Whakatane 232, Taupo 241, Opotiki 206, Auckland Aero 243, Hamilton 243, New Plymouth Aero 257, Masterton 270, Gisborne 202, Napier 240, Wairoa 224, Paraparaumu 218, Ohakea 255, Kairanga 235, Palmerston North 217, Levin 209, Wellington 249, Stratford 253, Ohakune 255, Wanganui 261, Takaka 283, Westport 226, Hokitika 193, Greymouth 181, Haast 199, Riwaka 292, Nelson 281, Blenheim 289, Grassmere 266, Kaikoura 229, Mt Cook 200, Mt John 286, Methven 229, Christchurch 210, Tekapo n/a, Timaru 190, Waimate 179, Omarama 258, Palmerston 182, Dunedin Aero 174, Dunedin 155, Oamaru 194, Queenstown 231, Alexandra 232, Invercargill 165, Raoul Is 150, Campbell Is 59, Chatham Is 142].
      
      Sources: NZ Met. Misc. pub. 107 (Climatological table, NZ Gazette) and NZ Met. Misc. pub. 109 (Meteorological Observations).
      
      https://www.localweather.net.nz/smf/index.php?topic=714.msg3603#msg3603
      
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      July 28, 2023 2:04pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Laurence Fox on the subject, he nails it.
  
  They don’t half talk some bollocks these commUNists.
  
  “We have nothing to fear except fear itself.”
  
  Don’t buy their lies. Hold on to your freedom. Give it away and you will never get it back.
  
  Terrorist attacks on the west – vanished.
  Covid – vanished.
  Climate – WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!
  
  Turn off your TV.
  
  Think for yourself.
  
  https://twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1684670756704190464?s=20
  
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  July 28, 2023 11:31am
  - General
    
    “The era of global warming has ended, the era of global boiling has arrived.”
    
    July is set to be the world’s hottest month on record, according to a new report, as the UN’s secretary-general António Guterres calls for leaders to act on climate change.
    
    LMFAO
    
    ‘Global boiling’
    
    Sure it is Antonio Boneheadio
    
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    July 28, 2023 2:58pm
- Ignoranus
  
  [Mod – if you cannot learn to communicate without abuse don’t bother posting]
  
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  July 28, 2023 6:44pm
  - Ignoranus
    
    [Mod – goodbye]
    
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    July 29, 2023 2:10am
- NZer In Exile
  
  We need to panic!!!
  
  Paul Joseph Watson climate panic pisstake:
  https://www.bitchute.com/video/7vUODDWjjY8/
  
  Enjoy!
  
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  July 28, 2023 8:46pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Oh, and, 3:18 to 5:22 is a big gold investment ad.
    
    1 1
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    July 28, 2023 8:54pm
  - Ghost
    
    I wonder how many fires are being set by environmentalists trying to push the global warming story
    
    2 1
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    July 28, 2023 9:06pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      The self righteousness is off the scale so I guess people would be that mental.
      
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      July 28, 2023 9:34pm
imalwaysright

Watched Ginny Anderson on AM this morning .
It was like watching a trailer for the Barbie movie.
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July 28, 2023 8:03am
- pdm
  
  IAR – Practising for her new career -Shortland Street maybe?
  
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  July 28, 2023 10:36am
Prince

Not content with having destroyed Education, Health, Economy, and Law & Order, Labour now sets its sights on the GST tax system.
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July 28, 2023 8:05am
- Bob
  
  GST is just the next socialist target towards achieving a FREE economy, as perceived by the
  Marxist activists.
  Next will be baby care items, wipes disposable nappies etc, then sanitary and contraceptives.
  so the list of a utopian lifestyle rolls on!
  No mention anywhere of how the country will pay for health, education, old age pensions, essential infrastructure etc.
  Oh for the utopian dream.
  
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  July 28, 2023 10:01am
  - Burtland
    
    first you have to destroy everything, then you get the useful idiots to rebuild it
    
    Unionists Little and Campbell understood this well when they destroyed Health
    – the socialist foot soldiers (women rainbows and trans) will try to rebuild it
    Maori exploit the chaos
    
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    July 28, 2023 11:33am
slightlyrighty

Nicola Willis having obtained Labour’s Tax Policy through a Leak should be the story the story of the week.

Labour’s Caucus leaking should be the story of the week.

David Parker and his resignation from Revenue should have been the story of the week.

Of Course, Kiri Allen was the story of the week, and the only benefit to Labour was that is partly concealed or mitigated the other blemishes, but if Labour could better schedule their screw-ups, that’d be great…..
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July 28, 2023 8:07am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Did Kiri take one for the team?
  
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  July 28, 2023 8:25am
- kowtow
  
  Can you imagine , actually we don’t need to imagine , te pahti media already actually did it , to the Nats through all their various ups and downs over leaks and leadership and factionalism;
  
  te pahti media really did put the boot in .
  
  This week to Labour ? Well , not so much.
  
  How very queer.
  
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  July 28, 2023 8:30am
- peterwn
  
  One would have thought that Labour would have its policies sorted and put to bed at this stage. Also Ministers/ Caucus should have ironed out differences of opinion and convinced the Leader that the policies are worthwhile. The Leader carries the ultimate can for election success and at this stage his MP’s must trust the Leader’s judgment rather than in effect arguing with him in public. Policies may require fine tuning before release for the campaign but this needs to be done by due process and in particular the Leader would be deeply involved in the process. Labour MP’s and candidates have effectively lost the plot which is not at all good so late in the piece.
  
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  July 28, 2023 8:56am
  - Hugh Jarse
    
    Peterwn, can I just amend your last sentence, it’s actually excellent that they have lost the plot and it’s really good that it’s so late in the piece !
    
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    July 28, 2023 10:03am
  - Ehlana
    
    Once upon a time I would have imagined that a Party in Opposition for 9 years would have had sufficient time to sort out its policies and prepare to govern.
    
    But I’m six years older now, and just a little wiser…
    
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    July 28, 2023 10:16am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  How many more screwups are there in the pipeline?
  They might have to start making them.
  
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  July 28, 2023 9:11am
Bridgenag

Australian GP sues Pfizer and Moderna over unapproved GMOs in mRNA Covid vaccines
The human genome could be permanently altered

https://open.substack.com/pub/rebekahbarnett/p/australian-gp-sues-pfizer-and-moderna?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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July 28, 2023 8:09am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “Every single person who has been injected with these products has received a GMO that has not been through the expert regulatory process in this country,” says Ashby-Koppens. “The human genome could be changed permanently, and no one was informed.”
  The World needs Nuremberg 2.0
  
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  July 28, 2023 9:20am
- bennerg
  
  Dr John Campbell’s latest video reports on a new Swiss study that shows 1 in 35 recipients of the latest booster had a myocardial injury.
  
  The research was in his opinion was a well executed research project, with 777 participants and an equal number in the control goup.
  
  As more research has been published, Dr Campbell has gone from being a supporter of the mRNA “vaccine”, to one of it’s biggest critics – and all based on the published science.
  
  Why are not our doctors and medics not reading the same science? Why are they ignoring such huge consequences?
  
  Why do they try and shut down alternatives to the pharmaceutical industry? (Therapeutics Goods Act passed under “urgency” this last week)
  
  Because it’s all just business, nothing else. A huge protection racket. Enabled by our government, who should be protecting us.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd_RTf_ForA
  
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  July 28, 2023 9:51am
Grunter

It’s now clear that the Ukraine “spring offensive” has at best stalled (actually failed). The obvious end, negotiated settlement, edges closer. Let’s hope the mass killing ends soon.
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July 28, 2023 8:11am
- kowtow
  
  Are you sure .
  News at the moment is there’s a big push on near Zaporizia .
  
  And yes all the killing and destruction is appalling ; that’s why the UN and int’l community should be pushing for democracy and civil society across the globe .
  
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  July 28, 2023 8:39am
  - WaynelSexton
    
    Napoleon took Moscow and still lost, what will Zaporizia achieve?
    
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    July 28, 2023 9:24am
    - kowtow
      
      FFS I only pointed out there’s an offensive there .
      
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      July 28, 2023 10:28am
  - Ra Henare
    
    What rubbish….Democracy wont stop the killing and destruction!
    Its so called Democratic countries that are prolonging the killing and destruction.
    WITHOUT using their own democratic processes.
    Ie USA invasion was unlawful, they didnt follow their own rules that only Congress can authorise what Bush did.
    Its the USA thats fueling the UKraine conflict, while again ignoring their democratic processes and ignoring the tragidies happening in their own back yard. Poverty, homelessness, failing infrastructure etc
    
    China seems to have hit on a non killing, non destructive strategy. USE Finances!!! Ooops but that isnt democratic.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
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    July 28, 2023 1:03pm
  - mawm
    
    kowtow – have the Ukies broken through the first line of Russian defence yet? I see lots of photos of burning/disabled Ukie Tanks and AFV’s. The slaughter is unimaginable and yet the poor Ukie grunts get thrown into battle against a well set Russian defence.
    
    This could all have been prevented. Victoria Nuland and the other warmongers in Washington, London and Brussels have a lot to answer for.
    
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    July 28, 2023 1:43pm
    - kowtow
      
      Mawm
      
      According to oryx , which I believe is independant it’s the Ivans losing most armour , in defence which is contrary to the general doctrine .
      
      The Russian defence may not be as well set as we’ve been led to believe and Putin should be in the dock for slaughtering his own troops for his own personal ambitions.
      
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      July 28, 2023 3:55pm
- Cassandra
  
  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/07/27/vladimir-putin-russia-war-ukraine-counter-offensive/
  
  The headline in The Telegraph is quite encouraging. The only negotiated settlement Russia will accept is dismembering Ukraine.
  
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  July 28, 2023 8:50am
  - Taieri
    
    The only negotiated settlement Russia will accept is dismembering Ukraine.
    ————–
    
    Ukraine has effectively been dismembered for almost 10 years now. The question is, is it really in the Ukraine interest to recover occupied territories, populated in the main by a hostile Russian majority?
    
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    July 28, 2023 9:27am
    - Cinematic
      
      Naturally that majority will be encouraged to depart. Ukraine is a sovereign nation with internationally recognised borders. The Russian army is on the wrong side of the border. Ukraine will not stop until it reinstates those borders, I think that much is clear by now.
      
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      July 28, 2023 10:04am
      - Taieri
        
        Ukraine will not stop until it reinstates those borders, I think that much is clear by now
        ———-
        
        Unfortunately, it’s very unlikely that this will happen.
        
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        July 28, 2023 11:08am
- Cinematic
  
  It’s far from clear. Wishing it so doesn’t make it so.
  
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  July 28, 2023 9:27am
- Handyman
  
  The only thing we know for sure is that by the end of the war, Russian and US forces will be able to wave to each other across a land border in Ukraine.
  
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  July 28, 2023 10:59am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Cinematic – get a map out of the planet prior to 1930 and tell me more about these ”internationally recognised borders”.
    
    I’m all agog thinking about it…….take your time…….
    
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    July 28, 2023 12:18pm
- Burtland
  
  yes lets have a negotiated settlement – then we can all be taken for fools and bribed with stolen grain like Africa – Prigozhin can welcome us all to the fold.
  
  hands up who’s next – Poland, Lithuania, Lativia, Estonia, Finland ?
  
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  July 28, 2023 11:46am
- NothingLeft
  
  Hard to judge. Ukraine has been wiping out huge amounts of Russian equip; 7-800 guns a month for last few months, when it was reckoned Russia only had 3000ish guns. In recent weeks Russian artillery use has plummeted – appears it’s exhausted – with cold war stocks nearly gone and Russian production rates only a few % of earlier conflict peaks. Lines don’t move much during attritional campaigns (like WWI), but eventually the depletion of war fighting materiel makes it possible for one side to break through and collapses their opposition.
  
  Note we’re starting to see bigger Ukrainian gains in south today, and it was apparent that Russian heavy defensive trench networks were un-manned during the Robotyne breakthrough today. They might be running out of soldiers.
  
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  July 28, 2023 1:09pm
  - mawm
    
    That reads like a BBC report.
    
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    July 28, 2023 1:47pm
  - rangitoto
    
    Staromayors’ke has just been liberated by UAF. The Ruzzkies will have to leave Robotyne now as they are in an untenable position. Also Andrivka and Klishivka liberated in the East. The writing is on the wall for Putler.
    
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    July 28, 2023 6:18pm
Surely Knott

How to make it seem like u r giving people more when you are broke.
📣 Policy 1. We are taking gst off petrol. (Wooohooo, News headlines and public cheers)
Step 2 Quietly put gst back on petrol.
Now 📣 policy 2 We are taking gst off fruit.
(More news headlines and public cheers)
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July 28, 2023 8:19am
- Ghost
  
  How was it quiet, well disclosed by the government when they would increase the fuel tax again, and well written by the media.
  
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  July 28, 2023 8:52am
Chris Nisbet

Global boiling? That isn’t a technical term I’ve heard before. I suppose it’s worse than global warming and global heating. I wonder what’s next on the scale… global incineration?
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July 28, 2023 8:21am
- Ruahine
  
  It has got so hot in New Zealand now that I have actually seen mud boiling in and around Rotorua.
  
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  July 28, 2023 8:52am
  - Chris Nisbet
    
    Unprecedented!
    
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    July 28, 2023 9:24am
  - Biscuit
    
    Ruahine, here in Upper Hutt last night it got so hot that a decent-sized hunk of ice I had suspended in a glass of bourbon melted away before, gasp, I even had the chance to drink it.
    
    I propose repeating the experiment a few thousand times in coming days, months and years before I jump to any ‘The Sky Is Falling!’ pronouncements…
    
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    July 28, 2023 9:27am
    - Ehlana
      
      In the interests of science, we need more people to try the experiment in different places and at different times. What you’re observing might just be a local phenomenon.
      
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      July 28, 2023 10:19am
    - JackRabbit
      
      A mate told me a while back that the temperature rose by 80°C and its really hot, but he is OK.
      
      I asked him how was getting on being back in UAE after a stint at McMurdo.
      
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      July 28, 2023 12:50pm
  - KiwiSapper
    
    The local taniwha’s are offended ‘cos they see the end in sight of the ” taniwha Appeasment Fund” and “koha” gravy train.
    
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    July 28, 2023 11:09am
  - General
    
    Hilarious. Best comment of the day.
    
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    July 28, 2023 3:02pm
Ehlana

Happy Friday

Today is National System Administrator Appreciation Day and also National Milk Chocolate Day, in case you’re wondering how to show your appreciation.
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July 28, 2023 8:27am
Maggie Pie

Dressed for the BIG occassion 😀

Realizing her frock was still in the wash, our FM raids her cuzzies wardrobe….

https://twitter.com/dahmenaaron/status/1684321705827901440
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July 28, 2023 8:28am
- Nickc2
  
  What an effin disgrace!
  And she is our Foreign Minister? Gimme a break FFS!
  
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  July 28, 2023 9:05am
- Prince
  
  Respect at a diplomatic level.
  Not so much. Couldn’t give a stuff.
  
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  July 28, 2023 9:10am
- greybeard
  
  That is truly disgraceful, embarrassing and disrespectful.
  What a slob.
  
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  July 28, 2023 9:16am
  - Nickc2
    
    Labour’s anti-American sentiment runs deep eh?
    She looks like she just rolled out of bed after an all-night piss-up.
    
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    July 28, 2023 9:20am
    - jedmo
      
      Think dressing down is obviously deliberate, but why? Ordinary people dont follow this, is it to show her caucus colleagues how anti America we are (by flouting ny normal standard of diplomatic dress attire)?
      Im embarassed, NZ has long history with USA, without them we’d possibly be a slave outpost of Japan. Not to mention US defeating Japan when they did saved my mother from dying in a POW camp in Java.
      
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      July 28, 2023 9:32am
      - Ghost
        
        Must have been an amazing meeting if all people can moan about is how she is dressed.
        
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        July 28, 2023 9:40am
      - Prince
        
        POW Camp in Java.
        I knew I recognised the look. No doubt that’s where the inspiration came from.
        
        2 0
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        July 28, 2023 7:51pm
- Flossie
  
  Frock? Does she have a frock?
  
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  July 28, 2023 9:19am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Stop please. You are making my head go all funny.
    
    9 1
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    July 28, 2023 9:35am
  - Opie
    
    Remember the gunny sack she wore to meet the Korean foreign minister?
    
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    July 28, 2023 9:40am
  - plc
    
    Not one “frock” given!
    
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    July 28, 2023 9:51am
  - pdm
    
    Flossie perhaps Chippy vetoed her wearing a grass skirt!!
    
    If so he is pissing them off in a big way – one at a time. Robbo, Parker, Mahuta – who is next?
    
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    July 28, 2023 10:43am
    - Piniwi
      
      Probably not far from the truth if you have noticed how many Maori public figures seem very uncomfortable and carelessly dressed in European clothing. Te Putty Maori leaders or the Green MP who jumped ship. Funny to see.
      
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      July 28, 2023 11:48am
- KKKKatee
  
  Absolutely no idea at all. She should be in business suits at the very least. Having blue lips is the killer here. A nice red lipstick gives a pop of colour and brightens up the face.
  
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  July 28, 2023 9:25am
- Hugh Jarse
  
  Looks like she skateboarded down to Parliament. Despite feeling a strong need to virtue signal to Labours friends against the imperialist Americans surely it’s not too much to expect respect for the visitor who has dressed appropriately. Anyone recall what she wore to meet her Chinese counterpart ?
  
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  July 28, 2023 10:09am
- KKKKatee
  
  One would’ve thought business suits are a prerequisite for any MP. And the blue lips are the killer here. A nice red lipstick adds that pop
  of colour to any outfit.
  
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  July 28, 2023 10:09am
- Scooter
  
  I bet Jacinda did this on purpose to undermine NZ’s standing overseas, worst PM ever.
  
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  July 28, 2023 10:16am
- 7kiwi11
  
  Casual Friday?
  
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  July 28, 2023 10:22am
- Bob
  
  When you are determined to turn the country into a THIRD world lifestyle, you must look the part as a ROLE MODEL.
  
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  July 28, 2023 10:37am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    That’s the irony though. No foreign minister would dress like that. From any country.
    
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    July 28, 2023 11:57am
- Benedict Yu
  
  That is disgraceful 🤬
  
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  July 28, 2023 11:53am
- DeepBlue
  
  She would be heading to the football after the meeting. Obviously she thought she was going to walk up the wickedly cold Fran Wild walkway and sit in the freezing bleachers .
  
  In reality she and he (having changed after the photo) would have been driven to the lift at the stadium and escorted to their cosy warm corporate box.
  
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  July 28, 2023 2:09pm
Biscuit

Shock, horror.

For the second time this month, Sharon Murdoch’s ‘Stuff’ cartoon ISN’T laudatory of her Labour Government paymasters/ISN’T putting the boot into the National Party’s soft tissues (Delete one).

If yonder SM ain’t careful, she will find herself sat in the Naughty Corner the next time the wokist, leftist journalists get to meet!
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July 28, 2023 8:29am
- mandk
  
  Perhaps someone should contact the editor of Stuff to see if Murdoch needs a wellness check.
  
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  July 28, 2023 9:59am
Tasman devil

Who in Labour leaked the GST policy?

It would require somebody guaranteed to be re-elected even if there is a landslide to National and ACT, so a senior Cabinet minister.

Well there aren’t many left.

It would need to be somebody who understands the stupidity of the policy, so that counts out nearly all of the Labour caucus.

It would need to be somebody who has recent form for throwing his toys out of the cot over revenue issues.

It require somebody in Cabinet who has run a business. There are two.
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July 28, 2023 8:33am
- Ghost
  
  Robertson or Parker are both annoyed with the PM over ruling them
  
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  July 28, 2023 8:46am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Parker in the House yesterday was far from his usual confident, arrogant self.
    He was like a possum in the headlights, stuttering and stammering his way through his answers.
    Something is going on here.
    
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    July 28, 2023 8:58am
  - peterwn
    
    So they think they know better how to win elections than their leader. If they do not like their leader’s attitude they should shut up until the election then try to roll him.
    
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    July 28, 2023 9:44am
  - cas
    
    Whether Parker is on the list or not following the weekend party meeting will be interesting. He may decide to retire.
    
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    July 28, 2023 11:09am
    - Allan
      
      Oh I hope that you are correct with this. He is an odious person whose presence would not be missed even when the current regime is residing on the Opposition benches.
      
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      July 28, 2023 12:55pm
- JimBobJoe
  
  David Parker would be my guess.
  
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  July 28, 2023 8:59am
  - Prince
    
    I’m thinking Robertson. It is such a terrible policy, even he must have policies he just couldn’t live with.
    
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    July 28, 2023 9:13am
  - surfing
    
    The Parker story has legs.
    
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    July 28, 2023 10:11am
- Nickc2
  
  I’m picking Parker.
  
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  July 28, 2023 9:09am
Tasman devil

Who in Labour leaked the GST policy?

It would require somebody guaranteed to be re-elected even if there is a landslide to National and ACT, so a senior Cabinet minister.

Well there aren’t many left.

It would need to be somebody who understands the stupidity of the policy, so that counts out nearly all of the Labour caucus.

It would need to be somebody who has recent form for throwing his toys out of the cot over revenue issues.

It require somebody in Cabinet who has run a business. There are two.
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July 28, 2023 8:34am
- mandk
  
  The leaker could also be someone who knows they don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of being back in parliament after the election.
  
  That means it could be any one of 20+ Labour MPs.
  
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  July 28, 2023 9:57am
- Dougal10
  
  Hipkins is the labour party leaker has been since early 2020 . He uses it to get rid of those he doesnt like.
  
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  July 28, 2023 10:34am
  - H. Upmann
    
    Grant Robertson is very anti removing GST from fruit & veg and fits the criteria of being in the top 20.
    
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    July 28, 2023 10:58am
tknorriss

Removing GST from fruit and vegetables is a barking mad idea that simply won’t work.

The reason is that prices for fruit and veges fluctuate due to changes in supply. That is why tomatoes get more expensive during winter.

Removing the GST does not solve that fundamental problem.

Hence, what will happen is that the prices will drop momentarilly when GST is removed. But, then demand will increase due to the reduced pricing.

Thus the demand pressure will push the pricing back up, and in not too much time, the prices will be back where they were before the GST was removed.
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July 28, 2023 9:01am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  My question is whether fresh food and veges will be exempt from GST or whether they will be zero rated for GST.
  The difference is huge, and I seriously doubt whether anybody in the Labour caucus is able to comprehend the difference.
  
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  July 28, 2023 9:09am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    They would have to be zero rated, exempt would be insane. There are still far too many issues with the plan though.
    
    Weirdly, Robertson is actually right about it though, in real money terms it helps well off people way more than poor people (for one, poor people don’t generally make good food choices). It makes way more sense to keep GST as it is and simply use that money to directly help those that need it.
    Obviously, measurement and accountability would ensure the money wasn’t wasted of course.
    
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    July 28, 2023 9:29am
    - Opie
      
      The maximum this will save most families is $5-7 per week based on a $50 spend of fruit and veg.
      
      The same families that are paying $20 a week minimum with the fuel price raise.
      
      Do you really think this will change the price at the vege markets?
      
      And where will the money come from for it? It’s not like Robertson will accept a lower gst take to fund his addiction.
      
      It’s another policy where supporting it gives away your iq level.
      
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      July 28, 2023 9:46am
- Flossie
  
  GST off fruit and veg is a ridiculous and convoluted way to “ease COL pressure”. Avocados and asparagus might be cheaper (yay say The Wealthy) and yet milk and bread are not. Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense for that reason never mind what others are already pointing out about seasonal fluctuations.
  
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  July 28, 2023 9:23am
  - surfing
    
    Next on the list for GST free will be female sanitary products.
    
    Next, we can argue whether a cooked potato has GST, vs an uncooked potato.
    
    Selective GST is a nightmare, compared to a blanket application of GST .
    
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    July 28, 2023 10:13am
- Stu2
  
  The calculations assume the supermarkets don’t take the chance to increase their margins. I don’t trust them.
  
  Makes GST accounting far more messy too, it is simple right now
  
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  July 28, 2023 9:43am
  - Random T Person
    
    Greed, for that is what you are referring to, is a constant, as Eric Crampton pointed out when the feckless government tried blaming supermarkets for the cost of living increases resulting from government actions and monetary policy.
    
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    July 28, 2023 10:12am
  - greybeard
    
    If I owned a supermarket and fruit & veges sold at my market prices, why would I not keep those prices in place, even though “GST has been removed” ?
    Why would (should) I reduce my prices just because some dumb politician tells me not to include GST on certain goods ?
    This scheme to “remove GST from fruit & veges etc ” simply will NOT work in the customers’ favour: it will simply give the retailers more gross profit.
    
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    July 28, 2023 2:19pm
    - Ghost
      
      Well we do have a recent example, the 25 cents fuel tax reduction did not see the fuel companies up the prices to maintain the price when the tax was reduced.
      
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      July 28, 2023 2:25pm
- Ehlana
  
  Yes, but then you can attack the evil capitalists. After all, kind Labour took GST off!
  
  There is method in the madness, me thinks.
  
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  July 28, 2023 10:39am
k1w1

Re GST off fruit etc… Once again Stuff pulls the comment section after posing the question “Will it make a difference?” and 90% of the responders say NO IT WON’T (and berate Labour).

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/300937406/how-much-difference-would-removing-gst-from-fruit-and-veg-really-make
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July 28, 2023 9:04am
- Prince
  
  TVOne news last night couldn’t even get the maths right. Unable to calculate the ‘savings’ on, eg, a cauliflower correctly.
  Clearly simple maths and grammar is no longer a requisite for ‘journalists’.
  
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  July 28, 2023 9:15am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    They have this roving decimal point.
    
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    July 28, 2023 9:44am
  - Bob
    
    simple maths and grammar……
    two subjects that have long departed the state school curriculum
    
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    July 28, 2023 10:42am
- Kiwiguy
  
  The Stuff comments are getting more interesting by the day. Even some previous diehard Labour supporters have turned against them.
  It must really rile Tova; though I’m beginning to wonder if her loyalty was more with Jacinda than the Labour Party per se. And now that Jacinda has gone, she’s more at liberty to report what is actually going on, instead of blindly defending Jacinda like she used to.
  
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  July 28, 2023 10:04am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    Yes I believe you may have hit the nail on the head there. Lefties are saying Stuff has moved considerably to the right now that Tova has joined them!
    
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    July 28, 2023 11:01am
    - newview
      
      Left leaning journalists getting into survival mode. Xmas sunbathing at the beach wanting to know there’s a job for them come February.
      
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      July 28, 2023 3:47pm
- surfing
  
  We are inviting ourselves to join the cornish pasty VAT type debacle…
  
  https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-18244640
  
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  July 28, 2023 10:15am
k1w1

I’m very much looking forward to GST coming off my regular saffron purchase. Will save a fortune. I do assume spices that are plant-derived count as veg.
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July 28, 2023 9:29am
- Flossie
  
  Not exactly “fresh” though?
  
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  July 28, 2023 9:36am
- artemisia
  
  Dates? Raisins? Walnuts? Macadamias?
  
  No GST on asparagus, out of season tomatoes, flood impacted kumara, macadamias. Those who already buy them will carry on and save bigly. What’s not to like?
  
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  July 28, 2023 10:47am
Maggie Pie

And another date to stik in the diary 🙁

Kiri’s court date:
4 September 2023
@ Wellington District Court

Interesting to, appears she has been under surveillance by the police at one time…

https://www.nationtalk.ca/story/urgent-appeal-raids-and-arrests-against-maori-by-the-new-zealand-government

It’s like the gift that keeps on giving – to National.
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July 28, 2023 9:42am
- JimBobJoe
  
  thats an old link Maggie. Linkage to Tame Iti and the Ururewa group?
  
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  July 28, 2023 9:54am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I’m well aware of the date BJ….but it doesn’t change the fact.
    I was just saying.
    
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    July 28, 2023 10:07am
  - kevn
    
    Jim… You need to read past the headline.
    
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    July 28, 2023 10:25am
- KKKKatee
  
  This is interesting https://twitter.com/coltheman1/status/1684685251719880704?s=46&t=FXJyFvHy2FiqqPhWzU00mQ
  
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  July 28, 2023 10:12am
- peterwn
  
  She may get diversion for the careless driving charge (no injury or death) on condition she does a defensive driving course. I accompanied a friend to court to face a careless driving charge which my friend was going to plead guilty. The duty solicitor came up to my friend in the foyer and said there was going to be diversion – just report to the Police at 2pm to organise the defensive driving course. My friend did not even step inside the courtroom.
  On the other hand the Police prosecutor may be less willing to recommend diversion in the particular circumstances. Since Kiri can be very nice when she chooses to she will no doubt be nice to the prosecutor and if need be the judge.
  
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  July 28, 2023 10:20am
- Blog-aholic
  
  I had read that she was more than on the radar from the police during the ‘alleged’ Urewera terror plot.
  I am of the belief that when you see smoke there is always a fire……
  
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  July 28, 2023 10:28am
Scooter

Surfing did I say my personal experience was more valuable or that I am completely right? It’s called my opinion which I can have having lived here and lived through all 4 seasons each year. But then if you want to trust the “internet” from half a world away for your information then all well and good.
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July 28, 2023 10:02am
- Scooter
  
  Reply meant to be further up.
  
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  July 28, 2023 10:14am
- surfing
  
  Opinion is not science.
  
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  July 28, 2023 10:17am
  - Taieri
    
    Opinion is not science
    ——
    
    Neither are computer model based predictions…
    
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    July 28, 2023 11:24am
  - Scooter
    
    Ahh but science starts with observation.
    
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    July 28, 2023 5:13pm
BeaB

Perhaps RNZ could send their Morning Report team on a girls’ day out to Barbie and find some actual journalists who can present and comment on the news and issues of the day.
This silly group led by Hipkiss is an embarrassment. To the point where even the sports interviewee had no idea what one of them was talking about.
I have no problem with a sports section but let’s corral it and spend the bulk on the time informing us.
Maybe some of those stale pale blokes might be able to do the job!
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July 28, 2023 10:11am
- peterwn
  
  I am sure the Penthouse in Brooklyn can offer them a good deal. They have already done a Barbie event.
  
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  July 28, 2023 11:52am
I remember when

‘It’s not easy’: Bremworth Napier’s uncertain future as 130 staff offered voluntary redundancy at Gabrielle-hit plant: HB Today.
Bremworth’s 60-year-old yarn plant at Awatoto future in doubt after being badly flooded.
Bremworth CEO, Greg Smith, says it is too early to say whether it will close or be rebuilt.
Estimated cost to rebuild the site is in the ‘tens of millions of dollars’ according to present assessments.
Decision is some months away.
About twelve positions available to transfer to Whanganui and twenty not offered redundancy as vital to their national operation.
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July 28, 2023 10:12am
- kevn
  
  I rem… Waiting for the insurance company = years.
  
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  July 28, 2023 10:28am
- NothingLeft
  
  wool carpets (and wool) are all but obsolete. Almost no-one wants them anymore.
  
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  July 28, 2023 12:48pm
Maggie Pie

Here’s something just popped up that might interest bestie SteveO…

It’s no doubt more lies & misinformation being spread by the nasy left in their attempts to undermine the ‘Stop Co-Governance’ tour 🙁

https://twitter.com/Paparoa3/status/1684311818448109571
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July 28, 2023 10:22am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Yep, lies and misinformation.
  Desperate now. Those who follow this will know why the left don’t want the rogue Treaty exposed.
  
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  July 28, 2023 10:58am
Ghost

How strange, the last few pressers I’ve seen with the pm he’s been ranting about what national want to do. Maybe Ginny could talk to him.

Ginny Anderson has called out the National Party, saying the Opposition needs to focus on its own policies rather than fuelling rumours about Labour’s.

Criticism is flying over Labour’s rumoured plan to drop GST from fruit and vegetables, according to National citing a leak within the Government.

Labour leader Chris Hipkins has refused to confirm nor deny the policy.

Article
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July 28, 2023 10:33am
- Gravelroad
  
  If they are not going to do it (remove GST from something), why don’t they just deny it?
  
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  July 28, 2023 12:29pm
Surely Knott

There’s not transparency in the lefts wealth tax.

How much would Jacinda (or any of our celebrities) overseas pay

She’s a citizen of NZ and has a house in NZ. But she’s residing in the USA at Harvard.
So if she’s not in NZ for 185 days would she be exempt from Weatlh tax this year?
She gets another multimillion dollar book deal and some well paid speaking engagements in Australia on the back of her celebrity brand.
Is the book an asset. Is her celebrity brand an asset. How will they value that. What about the Harvard degree itself. That clearly has a value that she can use to create future income. Is it wealth?

Will sports stars pay wealth tax on their celebrity brand. Sports stars make money from playing sport. But their brand allows them to create income from many different streams like cereal and clothing and adverts.

What about other forms of intellectual property.
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July 28, 2023 10:41am
H. Upmann

Further to the 7:00 AM KB post this morning – British bank terminates Farage account because he isn’t woke enough, banking cancel culture is alive and well in the in the non-political area too.

Covid and big pharma critic Dr Joseph Mercola has been de-banked by JP Morgan Chase Bank. The bank account ban includes staff and their families including children.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2023/07/27/chase-shuts-down-bank-accounts-at-mercola.aspx?ui=db42cb7219b75ea7296a117a957f5fea45878ef2d3bd5d524d238f0aa3e1746e&sd=20130202&cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1ReadMore&cid=20230727Z2&foDate=true&mid=DM1433990&rid=1866383402
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July 28, 2023 10:47am
- mogg
  
  There is more to the Farage de-banking than just woke. It is clear to see that from the Coutts 40 page dossier which they had to reveal, there is a personal dislike of Farage in all banks in UK. There was description of him as ‘disingenuous grifter’ and more. Allison Rose and her Chairman at Coutts had to go because the cheeky bastards were happy to tell lies to the BBC reporter about him in order try and excuse their own stupid behaviour. From the response that he has had Farage calculates that there are 10,000 people in the UK who have been de-banked with no explanation given. We are seeing something similar here when people who don’t agree with co-governance are being called “White supremacists” in parliament and Hipkins not disagreeing in his answer.
  
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  July 28, 2023 2:20pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

More on the Police relationship with protesters.

https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/another-great-meeting-in-hastings-last-night-27-july/
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July 28, 2023 11:01am
Libertarians are right

To The Maori Party – your Tax Policy will hurt more than it helps. Let me explain why:

1. Removing GST from Kai:
This is global and helps people who don’t need it – targeted assistance is far more useful. Also – there is a huge amount of complexity and compliance cost relating to this (ask an Accountant what this will entail). The cost of ensuring regulatory compliance is also a waste of money.

2. Tax cuts and new tax rates:
This is simply punishing successful people to distribute money to people you hope will vote for you – electioneering basically. Standard ideological tax settings.

3. Wealth Taxes:
This is simply further theft of money from successful people. Note that the value of business assets (i.e. Goodwill) is based on the future income of those assets. Therefore, a Wealth Tax is simply taxing the future taxable income derived from a business. Also note compliance costs re valuations etc. To make it easier, the IRD will probably just issue industry specific income multipliers (which they used in their High Wealth Individuals project) which proves my previous point.

This plus the new tax rates plus the second house theft tax will drive the people that drive growth out of the country. That isn’t good.

4. Increase Company Tax Rate:
Your statement is simply false. A low Company Tax rate allows companies to reinvest in the company and drives growth. There are a large number of tax rules in place that stop shareholders from simply leaving all their income in the company at the low rate while drawing it out privately. To get the income out, dividends have to be distributed to shareholders and will be taxed at their personal tax rates (with a deduction for the company tax already paid). You clearly don’t know how our company tax system works so please pay to sit down with an Accountant and get them to explain it to you.

5. Foreign Companies Tax:
Income is derived where it’s generated. Again, speak to an accountant to explain how transfer pricing, leveraging requirements etc work.
Your assumptions are again all wrong and I’m not kidding when I suggest you to talk to an Accountant and get them to explain how our tax system works.

6. Land Banking Tax:
Not enough information. How does this affect Farmers, Lifestyle Blocks, Large Backyards etc? This is effectively theft of private property and is trampling over personal property rights.

7. Vacant House Tax:
Se above but re Holiday Homes, Air B n Bs etc. Again, your policy is theft.

8. Putting an end to Tax Evasion:
Firstly, the Tax Evasion (actually mostly Tax Avoidance) figures are grossly inflated because they are based on UK assumptions which are based on a completely different tax system.
Secondly, the law of diminishing returns is at play here and your $500mil simply won’t return anywhere near what you’re investing plus I’m not sure you would get the significant workforce required to implement this. There are >600,000 self employed people in this country. Your policy would need to watch all of them, every year. It’s not feasible.

As stated, please throw your garbage tax policy out and actually talk to some Accountants to get some understanding on how our system works.
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July 28, 2023 11:36am
- mawm
  
  I’m shocked – they didn’t include a tax on unused land.
  
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  July 28, 2023 1:56pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    #6 – Land banking tax. Maori are exempt.
    33% on the difference between market value and cost, payable every year.
    
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    July 28, 2023 2:08pm
Maggie Pie

Just back from picking up our weekend C&C order from NW.

Checking off the items on the receipt, you realise what a complete waste-of-time it would be if these idiots were to remove the GST from fresh fruit & vegetables.
TBH, it would actually leave SFA in peoples pockets! The savings would be SO minimal, it’d be completely outweighed by the costs of administration and policing it.

My suggestion, if they want to simplify the tax and make really meaningful savings for households, would be to take GST off Wine.
At least that wouldn’t be complicated. Wine is wine. No arguments.

I mean take this weeks order for example. If the gist was removed from say ‘fresh fruit and veges’, it would have left $6.85 in my pocket. Yet if it was removed from ‘Wine’, the actual cost would have resulted in a saving of just over $44.60!

Go figure.
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July 28, 2023 11:47am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  If the government is serious about assisting families facing hardships due to inflation they could reduce GST by a few percent. Not a thing would have to change. Taking GST off just a few items will cause huge headaches and will have unintended consequences.
  
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  July 28, 2023 12:44pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    It would benefit non-poor families way more than poor families and potentially even be inflationary itself.
    
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    July 28, 2023 2:59pm
ClanMcleod

Those damn conspiracy theorists are at it again, saying that the covid scam narrative was the warm up act (pun intended) for the climate change scam narrative.

Here’s Klaus Schwab’s daughter Nicole to put your mind at ease…..

“Covid” has demonstrated that rapid and extreme changes to the fabric of society can be implemented when people perceive an immediate sense of emergency—a mechanism that can be applied to the “climate crisis” in order to accelerate the WEF’s ‘Great Reset’ agenda.

I need more tinfoil and popcorn…….

https://www.intent-for-change.org/the-urgency-of-a-global-green-transition-with-nicole-schwab
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July 28, 2023 12:41pm
- Ignoranus
  
  [Mod – if you cannot learn to communicate without abuse don’t bother posting]
  
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  July 28, 2023 6:46pm
  - Ignoranus
    
    [Mod – I’ve told you to cut out the abuse, you will get no more warnings from me]
    
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    July 29, 2023 2:11am
Maggie Pie

And I’ll tell you something else I’m finding a bit of a worry, is all the mystery & intrigue surrounding the kidnapping and possible murder of that poor REA down in Chch….Yan Bao 🙁
Interesting that her alleged kidnapper was arrested at the Airport without any luggage while trying to buy a one-way ticket back to Chynah.
And even stranger he’d only been in the country for a few months. Hmmm.

My partner reckons the Police know a lot more than they’re letting on… and he said he’d bet his left testicle there’s a number of locals in the Chinese community who know shit but are too scared to speak out.

Just saying.
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July 28, 2023 1:06pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING

As promised back in March, here’s a list of all those people who visited the presumed dead pedo Jeffery Epstein’s Island or flew on the Lolita Express…. nearly 2000 of them!

https://twitter.com/dom_lucre/status/1684666604083138560
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July 28, 2023 2:16pm
- virtualmark
  
  As interesting as this Epstein little black book is, it’s important to note that it dates from 2008-ish (when he was first indicted/imprisoned in Florida) and the general belief is that it was compiled by Ghislaine Maxwell not Epstein.
  
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  July 28, 2023 2:42pm
Chuck Bird

Very interesting

Markets with Madison: The AI economy

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/markets-with-madison-the-ai-economy/QSLG437BV3654NOJMRP6Q2UJOU/
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July 28, 2023 2:21pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300937675/kiwi-77-charged-with-smuggling-2kg-of-heroin-into-australia-can-be-named
Eric Chang, eh?
Well, that’s a surprise…..
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July 28, 2023 2:23pm
- mandk
  
  More of a surprise is that anyone is stupid enough to imagine that they could hide 2kg of heroin in the lining of their suitcase and not get caught.
  
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  July 28, 2023 2:59pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

They are still at him, with anything they can find.
I thought a person who donated heaps of water would be fine.
Town water was ok they said but missed the point. This water was in bottles ready to go.
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/remembering-trump-s-visit-to-east-palestine-and-why-he-s-a-talented-politician/ss-AA185wYz
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July 28, 2023 2:36pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

NZ MPs making decisions that we have no control over.
A Labour Minister says “no” and that is it! Nobody asked me, or the team of one million.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/sports/other/mahuta-shuts-door-on-nz-joining-aukus-after-blinken-says-it-s-very-much-open/ar-AA1eq3CM
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July 28, 2023 2:46pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

I am not a crook. When was the last time we heard that?

https://libertyonenews.com/mccarthy-seems-to-imply-hes-ready-to-impeach-joe-biden/
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July 28, 2023 3:04pm
Maggie Pie

I see where the Judge gave that strange looking pr*ck in the UK who shot kiwi cop Matt Ratana, a ‘Whole-Of-Life’ sentence.

Girls at tennis say to me “why can’t we do that here”?
I always reply Kelvin Davis, Andrew Little, Peter Bouchier….and all those other soft-cocks on crime that infest the Labor Party.
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July 28, 2023 3:12pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  That’s life without parole, folks.
  
  Here the starting point would have been 10 years, less time because of colonial oppression, time already served on remand and hey, time off just because – well, that’s a day under 3 years so let’s just call it 6 months on Home D.
  
  Cracked it.
  
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  July 28, 2023 7:07pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Kiwis unaware.

https://www.fsu.nz/polling_shows_majority_of_kiwis_unaware_of_current_or_proposed_media_regulation
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July 28, 2023 4:08pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

In the last year, only six NATO countries met their obligation to pay 2% of their GDP toward their own national defense. The other 22 countries couldn’t be bothered and continued to expect the American taxpayers to fund the bulk of the war in Ukraine.

https://therightwingclub.com/americanpatriotclub/gop-reps-propose-bill-to-force-nato-freeloaders-to-pay-up/

The last paragraph is what will happen imo.
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July 28, 2023 4:18pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

This is the crazy way Democrats think! They will not stop fentanyl unless……

https://therightwingclub.com/thepoliticalmovement/dems-wont-support-stopping-fentanyl-unless-gop-caves-on-amnesty/?utm_placement=thepoliticalmovement
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July 28, 2023 4:21pm
Inthe09

Has it occurred to anyone in the media that Hipkins ruling out additional taxes is very easily solved after the election, should the left be able to get the numbers. Labour roll him for a Leader that wants to be PM and supports the Green and Maori Parties tax polices. It was his Captians call, not the new persons….

I hope National have a simple one-liner they can drop at the right time highlighting the possibility.
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July 28, 2023 4:42pm
- Swifty
  
  Recently National folk have been saying loudly and repeatedly “you can’t trust Labour on tax” which seems to cover it.
  
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  July 28, 2023 5:43pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Simpler still. Labour’s policy is no new taxes but the electorate has forced them to work with the Greens & TPM who want new taxes, so what’s the boy PM to do? It’s the will of the people & all that.
  
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  July 28, 2023 7:10pm
Ghost

He seems like a dick, but teenagers raping multiple girls is home detention, gang member breaking in and raping a mother sleeping beside her child, home detention.

A man dressed in military-style clothing who shot at pictures of then-Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern with firearms and a crossbow in a video titled “Enemies spotted in the wild” has been jailed.

Nathan Raureti Symington also “spread hatred” towards the Muslim community, accusing them of “glorifying and encouraging” the Christchurch terror attacks on March 15, 2019, a judge said…

However, this wasn’t enough to escape a sentence of imprisonment and he was jailed for two years and six months. The judge also made an order for the destruction of the objectionable material.

Article
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July 28, 2023 5:12pm
- Swifty
  
  But if you write poems about knifing James Cook and white mofos you are feted, adored, featured in festivals and on the state broadcaster and showered in taxpayer money.
  
  Got it.
  
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  July 28, 2023 5:42pm
fernglas

“Vacant house tax: A new 33% tax on the market value of properties that remain untenanted for six months or more”

I own a house that I bought 40 years ago for $80,000. It is now worth $1.3 million. I retire next year and will take a year long holiday overseas. My house will not be let during that time. Do I have to pay $400,000 tax, Rawiri?
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July 28, 2023 7:09pm
Maggie Pie

“July is now expected to be the hottest month ever recorded on Earth
according to climate scientists”

– South China Morning Post.

Just shows what those idiots know. It’s dropping to 6 degrees C here tonite.

SHEESH.
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July 28, 2023 7:27pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  “hottest month ever recorded on Earth”
  
  Wow. Possibly takes the cake for the most stupid climate hysteria headline ever.
  
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  July 28, 2023 9:00pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    NZer In Exile – that one is a doozy but I would have to dispute that it is the stupidest. Read this one and let me know what you think…..
    
    ‘Era of global boiling has arrived,’ says UN chief as July set to be hottest month on record
    
    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/jul/27/scientists-july-world-hottest-month-record-climate-temperatures
    
    It’s no longer global warming, it’s global boiling…..
    
    This is the same as the covid narrative, then it was ‘new variants’ or made up case numbers.
    It is ludicrous headlines used to take the fear porn to the next level, it is used as an excuse to implement even more deranged policies to destroy society and implement what used to be called a New World Order.
    
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    July 30, 2023 8:55am

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