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June 30, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 30 June 2023

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Wow – a stunning interview with Winston Peters by Paul Brennan on Reality Check Radio:

https://realitycheck.radio/winston-peters-on-the-covid-response-his-answer-to-a-very-serious-question-that-went-viral/

Finally, a major political figure asking the questions so many of us want answered. Yes, this is probably just a carefully calculated political move to capture the anti-mandate/freedom vote, but I’ll take it any day over Seymour and Luxon’s pig-headed refusal to acknowledge the growing herd of elephants in the room.
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June 30, 2023 8:00am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Peters was Deputy PM in the government that locked us down and restricted our rights in the first place; never forget that.
  
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  June 30, 2023 8:03am
  - Mark Hanley
    
    The saying form is temporary, class is permanent is an apt one for Christopher Luxon.
    
    Luxon has achieved the very difficult task of uniting a failed team, identifying and promoting key National MPs, devising a strategic plan for the election and beyond, condensing policy goals to bullet points so all media facing Nats are on message, ignoring the barbs of idealogues who do not understand the intricacies and tradeoffs required for electoral success and successful long term policy implementation.
    
    Luxon has also obviously been working on his media skills and easily brushed aside the desperate attempts of the despicable NZ media to smear him with his wife’s choice of car.
    
    The despicable NZ media has now flown the white flag by portraying Luxon as a bully at question time. Anyone with half a brain cell realizes Luxon’s success at holding the government to account can’t be refuted legitimately so the despicable NZ media are resorting to more senseless name calling.
    
    Luxon has adopted a very sensible stance on climate change which appeases the middle NZ female voter (vital for winning this election) whose main source of information is facebook (which Elon Musk revealed is a puppet of left leaning governments) whilst preventing our international competitors from attacking NZ for damaging the environment.
    
    Luxon’s approach is to authorise GM technology and to include existing wet land carbon sequestration in NZ’s net carbon calculation. No fuss. minimizing expense, and no reputational damage – genius.
    
    So I look forward to a strong National lead government with a leader who has morals, smarts, and a proven ability to lead people to implement long term change in large organisations.
    
    Free from the corrosive and damaging Peters.
    
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    June 30, 2023 8:09am
    - KH
      
      I quite like Luxon. Nat policy less so. But they do have to attract voters from Labour so are treading carefully.
      
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      June 30, 2023 9:23am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Kh. Which national policies do you dislike and why?
        
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        June 30, 2023 9:34am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Also the reality of trying to get elected with the anarcho-bolshevik media running interference for the incumbents.
        
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        June 30, 2023 2:42pm
    - softail 1450
      
      Mark Hanley , Good luck with the last 7 lines of your comments Mark,I fear you are going to be sadly disappointed whoever wins the treasury benches.
      
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      June 30, 2023 9:25am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Softail. A dispassionate realist is seldom disappointed.
        
        Why?
        
        I identify and dispell politically motivated hyperbole and look at facts .
        
        Facts….
        
        1. National has successfully implemented long term policies (eg. fibre network, roads of national significance)
        
        2. National has proven managerial talent with track records of successful change in large organisations.
        
        3. Because of their talented managerial team and the expectation they will win and be accountable for their promises, national are devising sensible policies which can actually be implemented (see my comments on climate ahove).
        
        No other political party standing in the next election has a track record of successful governement change (aside from the referendum endorsed end of life bill).
        
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        June 30, 2023 9:58am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Chris Luxon is a manager, and a good one as it is turning out.
      It still remains to be seen if he can lead. I always said he was not a ‘leader.’
      That may change even after winning the Election.
      
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      June 30, 2023 9:56am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Steve. I am perplexed by your oft stated proclamation above.
        
        What is the difference between a manager and a leader?
        
        Surely a key component of successful large organisations management is leading the team?
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:02am
      - rouppe
        
        @Mark, Kiri Allen is a pertinent current example of a leader vs a manager.
        
        A leader draws others around them who want to see the leader succeed because that leader inspires them.
        
        A manager is in charge of others.
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:13am
      - Taieri
        
        What is the difference between a manager and a leader?
        —————–
        
        A manager manages.
        A leader manages and inspires.
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:20am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Rouppe. your 2 definitions are not mutually exclusive.
        
        Also, how does one become manager of a corporate entity (i.e., picked from thousands of potential applicants because he or she is most likely to succeed) without being a leader (as per your definitions)?
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:28am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Taiere, there is an old management saying . …
        
        Employees don’t care what you know, until they know that you care.
        
        It is inconceivable that Luxon attained such outstanding managerial success and heights without inspiring people.
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:31am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @Mark,
        A manager puts groups of people together depending on their qualifications.
        A leader shows them where they are all going.
        I was a manager then a leader, just in the steel fabrication business.
        Manager as on the workshop floor, not in an office. A leader will have managed first.
        
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        June 30, 2023 12:46pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        I cant believe anyone can say that, he must be a leader to be a good manager FFS, there is no other scenario, only managers are leaders, i have done managers courses at work, the courses were named emerging leaders, i cant see how you can be one without the other
        
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        June 30, 2023 1:39pm
      - Che Guava
        
        A leader is a visionary who, by way of an analogy, knows that a road needs to be taken before anyone else does and can discern where the path goes before they arrive at the bend in the road; a manager just competently negotiates the bends as they come to them.
        
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        June 30, 2023 2:22pm
      - Individual Responsibility
        
        Steve Otto – and Mark Hanley
        
        4 key principals of Professional Management are Planning, Leadership, Organisation, and Control.
        
        Leadership being a component, albeit a key one, of management, may be more critical in other fields such as sports teams/clubs, social groups, etc.
        
        Evidence suggests Luxon is more than competent at all 4 key principals of Professional Management, as evidenced by his time at Unilever, and at Air NZ.
        
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        June 30, 2023 2:57pm
      - rouppe
        
        @Mark, no of course they aren’t mutually exclusive.
        
        Examples:
        Manager who is not a leader: Kiri Allen
        Leader who is not a manager: Dame Whina Cooper
        Leader who is a manager: Maybe Scott Robertson?
        
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        June 30, 2023 3:16pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Rouppe,
        
        how does one become manager of a corporate entity (i.e., picked from thousands of potential applicants because he or she is most likely to succeed) without being a leader (as per your definitions)?
        
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        June 30, 2023 4:23pm
      - rouppe
        
        @mark
        
        Not sure what that has to do with my assertions on leadership compared to manager- ship.
        
        However, I doubt there is a single path.
        Some get picked because they have been a chief- something- or- other elsewhere.
        Some get picked because they are mates with a superior.
        Some get picked because of some network or other. Could be “the boys club”, could be the school you went to, could be where you are on the whakapapa tree, could be how many boxes you tick on the intersectionality list.
        Some get picked because they have proven elsewhere within the organization that they are effective. Mainfreight usually promote from within, those that have proved over time to buy into the company standards and ethics. They’re a good example.
        
        A note on the chief- something- or- other elsewhere. How many times have you seen a new manager start with a glowing reference, be a complete arse and be moved on 6-12 months later. How many times have you seen a senior manager at your organisation who is a complete arsed leave under a cloud and next minute pop up in the SLT somewhere else, with a glowing reference.
        
        The fact that this happens with regularity shows it is not necessary to be a leader in order to become a senior manager.
        
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        June 30, 2023 5:22pm
      - Tony Stuart
        
        @ rouppe
        
        A leader draws others around them who want to see the leader succeed because that leader inspires them.
        
        Have you seen how united National’s caucus has been since Luxon took over as leader? The leaks stopped almost instantaneously. He’s put people in key strategic roles where they bring direct experience (Reti in Health, Mitchell in Police, Penny Simmonds in Tertiary Education are three examples) and he gives his spokespeople a degree of autonomy. Not being a career politician, he’s not threatened by those underneath him; he’s given Judith Collins key responsibilities in the technology area, and she has excelled with some really good policies, especially in Biotech.
        
        His communication is improving, and when you see him one to one with people, you see him at his best. His wife made the comment last week introducing him at conference that people interest him, and his staff have a constant battle moving him on because he hates breaking off conversations when someone is sharing their story with him. I saw that first-hand when he was in Whanganui last month. I believe he has the potential to be an outstanding PM, and boy, do we ever need that at the moment!
        
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        July 1, 2023 10:46am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Yes Luxon has been on record as saying he has had media training, I heard Hosking telling a minister today how to handle the media, he said at the end that should be taken on board by Luxon as well, but I have noticed lately, when Luxon is asked something pathetic, he smokes as he approaches the media, he has a chuckle, snd he says goodness, snd here’s me thinking you were going to ask about the important issues, something treat Hosking should take on board, clearly he has not noticed
      
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      June 30, 2023 10:08am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      That’s an extraordinarily rose-tinted description of Luxon and his abilities. Undoubtedly he has made some progress but he’s made a lot of mistakes along the way too – and not just in his first few months into the job.
      
      The mood of the country is clearly for a change of government, and National will surely be a big part of that, but how much of it is Luxon’s performance, and how much has he been gifted by this dead-set useless bunch of talentless entitled arrogant muppets?
      
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      June 30, 2023 10:25am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Loddenthinks, your question is answered by looking at the results of Bridges, Muller’s, and Collin’s leadership.
        
        They were all pitted against the intellectual vacuum that is the Labour party hierarchy, and yet failed so dismally they were sacked by their own party.
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:35am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        He stated himself he will need time when thrust into the job, to me he runs rings around any of the government ministers including the blowhard Robertson, he has not just improved, of late he looks like a different person, the last poll had him only 4% off Hipkins in preferred pm, but what caught the eye was his favourable moving up 5% as Hikpins dropped 7%, note the monthly one news poll is over due, cant wait to see if he has improved in preferred pm, i think a Morgan poll is due today followed soon after by a Curia prepared TPU poll on about the 6th
        
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        June 30, 2023 1:46pm
    - KiwiBattler
      
      I’m soo not convinced on Luxon, This article from Epoch Times raises a lot of questions. Luxon’s input is disturbing to say the least!
      In case you don’t want to read the article he said this;
      Opposition Leader Agrees
      
      As political tit-for-tat increases ahead of the New Zealand general election in October, the leader of the opposition National Party, Christopher Luxon, had a rare show of support for Hipkins.
      
      “I fully support what Chris Hipkins is doing in China,” Luxon told the AM show.
      
      He also agreed with the prime minister about whether or not Xi was a “dictator.”
      
      https://www.theepochtimes.com/new-zealand-pm-meets-ccp-leader-xi-jinping-and-wef-founder-klaus-schwab_5360333.html?utm_source=Aomorningbriefnoe&src_src=Aomorningbriefnoe&utm_campaign=Aomb-2023-06-29&src_cmp=Aomb-2023-06-29&utm_medium=Aoemail&est=RC7ftM71kLYOuZ%2Fjq5fHcUGGDKvWZBKJ3ePdnPIu%2BF7YgMQwDaYQzjmtp4eE1xLMqCmO6g%3D%3D
      
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      June 30, 2023 10:49am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Battler, I hate giving my email address to websites, are you able to copy and paste the relevant paragraphs?
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:55am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Oh FFS, what was he supposed to bloody say? no he should not be in China? Luxon has said himself he will have ministers on planes and he will be on planes himself, mainly India, he did not say anything other than he was do9ing well, being in China, and he agreed with Hipkins on whether Xi is a dicator when Hipkins said i dont think so, what would you have said?, no hipkins should not be in China, and yes Xi is a rotten dictator
        
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        June 30, 2023 1:50pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        For @Mark Hanley’s benefit, and anyone else interested, the bit not included above was this – which illustrates Luxon’s naivete:
        
        “I do agree with Chris Hipkins. I’d say ‘no’ and I’d say, ultimately, it’s a decision for the Chinese people,” he said.
        
        So Luxon says Xi is not a dictator, and ultimately it’s a decision for the Chinese people. Well, that would be the case if there were open, free and fair elections which as we all (except Luxon) know, there are not. He seems to think that if the Chinese people decide Xi is not a dictator, he’ll stop being one.
        
        Here’s a clue, Luxon: in March this year Xi proposed a law change to prevent him having to stand down after the maximum two 5-years terms as President. This is unprecedented and if passed would effectively anoint him President for Life (you know, like Mugabe and Amin, for example).
        
        As you can imagine, the vote for the law change was keenly contested and came down to the wire. The result? 2,952 lawmakers in favour; 0 against.
        
        Definitely not a dictator, Chris.
        
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        June 30, 2023 4:05pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        thx loddenthinks, can you add context by posting the full question luxon was asked.
        
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        June 30, 2023 4:26pm
    - waripori
      
      We all forget Luxon is a first term MP. It took him a while to realise how much the media felt it was their job to hold the opposition to account but he gets it now.
      
      He knows from his time in the soap business how short the product life cycle is and that nothing much that happens more than a couple of months out from the election will get much cut through. He will also know how to spend National’s significant war chest most effectively.
      
      Compare him with Chippie. A couple of decades in parliament has taught him low cunning but he does not have enough real world experience to give him a substantial grasp of the issues.
      
      I think Luxon will come through the campaign very well.
      
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      June 30, 2023 12:30pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Yes, it makes me laugh when people say Luxon will be minced in debates, i bet he is well schooled in debating, he will have all the facts and figures in his head, and when he throws the facts at Hipkins, he will choke on his words and not be able to answer like he couldn’t when asked what is a woman
        
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        June 30, 2023 1:54pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Like it or not, National need to have a plan to that includes Peters in the mix. They might just need him.
      Listen to that interview on Reality Check Radio.
      
      https://realitycheck.radio/winston-peters-on-the-covid-response-his-answer-to-a-very-serious-question-that-went-viral/
      
      Dissect it. There are a substantial number of votes in those comments. National simply needs to adopt those comments as their own and remove the oxygen from him. Otherwise it’s going to be a nervy few months up to the election.
      
      I know ‘single issue’ isn’t a great way to make decisions, but this ‘single issue’ is possibly the biggest one the country has faced for many, many years. The idea that if you don’t talk about it that it will go away is as infantile as it is wrong.
      
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      June 30, 2023 1:02pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Dont think they will need him , for Peters to get into parliament he will have to start bleeding Acts support, and that does not appear to be happening any time soon
        
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        June 30, 2023 1:55pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        National rejected Peters in 2017. I was informed by senior National insiders that it was National’s decision to not share power with Peters because they knew he would block and grandstand to such a level they wouldn’t get anything done.
        
        Nothing has changed since 2017 so I don’t expect National’s stance will change.
        
        A vote for Peters is a vote to return the Labour Party,
        
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        June 30, 2023 3:09pm
    - Piniwi
      
      Uptick for loyalty Mark but after Question time this week one gets the impression they are arrogant, stupid or are just trying to throw the election by trying to promote their diversity choices. First there was Hipango Herete who in Question 10 struggled so much she almost managed to make Kelvin Davis look like he had lifted his game. A critical time as Orana Tango are again making headlines for naughtiness in their ranks. But then on Thursday that poor effort was eclipsed by another diversity POC as Tama Potaka tried to question old Willie Jackson by asking his question in native gibberish. This opened the door for Willie to waffle on while getting signals from Robertson as he stumbled along. So a note for National to ensure these two muppets arrange proxy votes when needed and sit well back in the back benches if they must be in the chamber.
      
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      June 30, 2023 1:03pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        So that makes them arrogant? have a look at the pathetic replies from dead beat ministers, that is arrogant
        
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        June 30, 2023 1:58pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Is that the best you’vc got Piniwi?
        
        Someone who has the time and motivation to watch parliamentary debates would surely have something better than an opinion on the performances of two low ranking MPs.
        
        Did you watch government ministers: (i.e., people promoted by the Labour party to the third highest office in NZ) Michael Wood, Ginny Anderson, Ayesha Verrall, and Kiri Allen in the debating chamber as well?
        
        How did they go?
        
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        June 30, 2023 3:20pm
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      Mark -I have no political party affiliations. Are you happy to disclose yours? Your posts read like paid PR. Nothing wrong with that as long as there is transparency.
      
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      June 30, 2023 7:56pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Pineapple, if you search and read my posts you will see my political affiliation is to good policy accompanied by people who are able to implement that policy.
        
        You will see I praised more than one political party (in particular you should look for my ‘who to vote for’ posts).
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:10pm
  - Mike
    
    With the full support of your heroes in the opposition, Tony — never forget that.
    
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    June 30, 2023 8:09am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      Simon Bridges was holding Jacinda to account for the Government misdeeds around Covid and he got so heavily blasted for it (including by an Australian Bot Farm), that he lost the National leadership.
      
      From then on, National and ACT knew it was political suicide to push too hard. The media and all the “experts” would have roasted them if they did anything differently to what they did. People were scared and stupid. Obviously, it backfired because the media and the “experts” lied and portrayed National as trying to kill everyone anyway.
      
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      June 30, 2023 11:59am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        @Libertarians are right – maybe, just maybe, speaking the truth will get you further in the long run than trying to keep the polls happy in the short term?
        People have long memories. I know I was told plenty of unpleasant truths growing up, but quickly came to realise they WERE the truth and it’s better to acknowledge that and deal with than try and avoid it like a coward. That rarely works out well.
        
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        June 30, 2023 1:22pm
  - Matt Long
    
    I actually supported the first lockdown in fact long before they finally moved, based on what I was hearing out of the US. You’ll remember at the same time Trump was being shrieked at for racism for stopping flights from China, also too late if the virus had lived up to the hype.
    When the effects of the virus we’re unknown caution was the correct approach.
    Unfortunately Ardern got Kiwi Hubris and decided we would be best in the world at lockdowns rather than flattening the curve , then moved to vaccine mandates despite it being clear from Israel’s experience that the vaccines were ineffective at stopping the virus, which was no worse than a moderate influenza anyway.
    
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    June 30, 2023 8:23am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Matt Long – lockdowns never have been and never should be an option. Ever. This is established truth and is evidence based.
      
      If you have a genuinely deadly infectious disease then you quarantine the sick, you protect the vulnerable. That’s it. As proposed by The Great Barrington Declaration.
      
      https://gbdeclaration.org/
      
      Also locally, Covid Plan B proposed the same response. A response based on hundreds of years experience.
      
      https://www.covidplanb.co.nz/
      
      Never fall for the fearmongering because that is what it was. Totally irrational fearmongering. Otherwise they’ll do it again and again.
      
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      June 30, 2023 8:47am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        A rabid socialist was never going to give up her narcissistic control.
        
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        June 30, 2023 8:55am
      - kowtow
        
        Fearmongering.
        
        They’re doing it right now with climate catastrophism.
        
        It’s a shocking state of affairs that our liberal democracies have been hijacked like this.
        
        And again there’s no leading politician calling it out.
        
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        June 30, 2023 8:56am
      - Tom Hunter
        
        Not just that but our very own MOH Flu Pandemic Plan – which also matched the plans of the WHO and most Western nations (aside from the US where they had the stupid GW Bush-era “bio-warfare” plan). In it’s 198 pages you won’t find the word lockdown but you will find the following recommendations:
        
        – track, trace and quarantine. (including the obvious of locking down hospice and retirement homes when it became clear by Feb 2020 that it hit old people hardest.
        
        – mask mandates only in healthcare centres where viral over-loading becomes a factor.
        
        – Therapeutic treatments to keep people alive once they’ve caught the disease, allowing their immune systems time to kill the virus.
        
        – no vaccine mandates, as usual with vaccines (The MOH document assumes a pre-mRNA world where a vaccine is not likely to appear for some time).
        
        Why the fuck the West would ever think it was a good idea to copy what communists do is something historians will debate for years, but I’d put it down to China simply have much more contact with us, especially via media and social media, than in the age of Mao. Back then we barely knew of the insanities they were pulling on their subjects.
        
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        June 30, 2023 9:35am
      - kowtow
        
        TH
        
        Why the west ?
        
        Chronologically it was the hyper volatile Eyeties who panicked and copied the CCP.
        
        Commentary from the UK response was literally ” When we saw they got away with it , we copied them”.
        
        That’s how the so called best and brightest run our so called liberal democracies these days.
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:54am
      - Handyman
        
        At the time, it was easy to instill fear due to a unique set of circumstances.
        
        – The north Italian textile industry employs thousands of Chinese workers.
        – They all went home to China for Chinese new year.
        – Chinese new year just happened to be in the period where Chinese authorities knew about the Wuhan flu but had not gone public.
        – The Chinese workers returned to Italy and seeded the Wuhan flu in a thousand different places. There were a thousand patient zero’s.
        – The Chinese infected their Italian co-workers.
        – Italians lived in close knit muti-generational houses, so unknowingly infected the young and old people in their villages all at once.
        – Many people got sick with many old people dying.
        – Northern Italy has a disproportionate number of old people.
        – The Italian health authorities believed that a new epidemic was spreading rapidly and decreed that dead bodies should be burned, not buried.
        – Italy is a Catholic country which buries its dead, so had very few crematoriums, so bodies backed up in mobile freezers.
        
        Once this was on TV, politicians felt the need to “do something”. TV also showed experts predicting massive death rates based on models if the politicians did not “do something”.
        
        Only one country stood back and said: “You know what, we have none of these characteristics (above) so we will not have the same number of deaths. Activate the bad seasonal flu plan.”
        
        My point is that if there had not been the early explosive outbreak in Italy due to a unique set of circumstances, fewer countries would have panicked into ultimately the worst course of action.
        
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        June 30, 2023 11:08am
      - Dougal10
        
        How many of the lockdown countries had ex WHO staff in charge like we had in Bloomfield .
        
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        June 30, 2023 12:12pm
      - kowtow
        
        Sorry, I’ve done it again.
        Reported steve o by accident when I meant to reply to handyman .
        
        In the UK the officials saw ” The Italians got away with it , so can we”.
        
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        June 30, 2023 12:27pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Kowtow don’t forget the “incels” and “white supremacists” under the bed fear mongering also. If you’re not on board with the neomarxist wack jobs, you must be one of the aforementioned “terrorists”!
        
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        June 30, 2023 2:46pm
    - rouppe
      
      Closing the borders might have been useful, in order to set up systems such as Clan suggest, as well as ramping up hospital supplies and capacity.
      
      Putting everyone on home detention was the wrong thing to do
      
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      June 30, 2023 9:09am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        rouppe -exactly. Never forget, this government did NOTHING to prepare hospitals for any substantial increase in numbers, particularly expected ICU numbers.
        
        Of course these numbers never eventuated anyway. But nor was there any information or advice to people to improve likely outcomes in case of infection. Diet and improvement to general fitness being the simplest.
        
        Instead we were told to hide under the bed because there was a magical ‘vaccine’ just around the corner. Even though there has never been one created for any other seasonal respiratory illness, and that all real vaccines take between 8 – 10 years to get to market. Not 6 months.
        
        Then many were coerced and bullied to take part in the largest medical experiment in history.
        
        Every response to this was a disastrous failure. All that lockdowns and border closures achieved was to kick the can down the road. No lives were saved, a few might have been delayed a short time. Many were lost due to these policies and more to come sadly.
        
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        June 30, 2023 9:38am
      - kevn
        
        @rouppe…. The Teddy Bears in Windows period in NZ history. Only 3 years ago.
        
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        June 30, 2023 9:39am
      - Matt Long
        
        In fact I supported closing the borders or quarantine for travellers, but having failed to do that the first lockdown was not the disgrace that followed.
        
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        June 30, 2023 9:43am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        “wrong thing to do” if you were a mind bending socialist control freak. I will still be complaining about this in 5 years or more.
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:04am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Bang on Clan
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:06am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        You isolate the sick… Not the healthy.
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:39am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Another thing people should understand, and never forget when they try this again. The worst thing to do is try and vaccinate your way out of a pandemic. This was warned about by the excellent Eugyppius very early on. In his latest blog post they reaffirm this.
        
        Mass vaccination initiatives to reduce the prevalence of endemic respiratory viruses, including vastly milder Omicron-era Covid, are a very bad idea for the same reason that lockdowns are. Even if they’re totally safe and effective, the risk is that they’ll end up reserving hosts for other, newer pathogens and the unknown risks that these pose.
        
        https://www.eugyppius.com/p/covid-suppressed-influenza-during
        
        It does, however, suggest that non-pharmaceutical interventions to mitigate transmission and mass vaccination against endemic respiratory viruses are two very bad ideas.
        
        Simply put, as with flu and other coronaviruses, there is no sterilising vaccine available, nor is there likely to be one anytime soon. Instead, these viruses will mutate to survive. Attacking them with a vaccine forces them to do this. There is a very real risk of making things worse, not better.
        Especially with experimental mRNA technology that in 20 years, never managed to get a product approved to market.
        
        El gato malo covered this also. It is called Original Antigenic Sin among other things.
        
        if having been vaccinated later prevents you from mounting as strong an N antibody response, then it may actually be significantly reducing the effectiveness of the immunity acquired from exposure to covid, which is, BY FAR the strongest immunity currently known.
        
        this would imply that the vaccines:
        
        not only do not stop you from getting covid and may well make it more likely,
        
        but also that they prevent you from getting the full benefit of the immunity you require when you GET covid.
        
        It gets worse.
        
        if this suppression is substantial enough, it might even render your recovery acquired immunity non-sterilizing and leave you active as a carrier and spreader by preventing the immune response that seems to be generating effective sterilization and replacing it with one known not to.
        
        this might make the vaccinated into durable or even perpetual carriers even if they have had disease and recovered.
        
        This is why those most vaccinated are most prone to getting covid.
        It was being warned about in October 2021.
        Natural immunity is superior to any ‘vaccine’. The more shots you have, the more potential for your immune system to ‘fixate’ on one version of the virus.
        
        As el gato malo discussed further a year later.
        
        there are an awful lot of people who should have been screaming about this the instant it became clear that the vaccines were leaky because this is what leaky vaccines do.
        
        honestly, far more people should have been screaming about the very idea of using a vaccine mid-pandemic to try to stop spread because it’s outright contra-indicated.
        
        but no one wanted to hear this.
        
        https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/more-jersey-switching-original-antigenic
        
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        June 30, 2023 2:57pm
    - leoj
      
      …..and all MPs and parties went along with Ardern’s lockdowns, mandates, scare tactics and jabbing.
      
      The whole of parliament was in lock-step so that means Luxon, National, Seymour and ACT.
      
      The country is f*#ked.
      
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      June 30, 2023 10:34am
  - Simon
    
    “Peters was Deputy PM in the government”
    
    Yep its insane.
    
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    June 30, 2023 8:42am
    - softail 1450
      
      Steve Otto, Dame narcissist to you Steve.
      
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      June 30, 2023 9:28am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I am so sorry, I forgot!
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:06am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Exactly, he needs hung out to dry
    
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    June 30, 2023 8:46am
    - Paulus
      
      At present despite what Peters says there is no way he will put himslef and his party forward for the election.
      They will be lucky to reach 3% on current thinking.
      
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      June 30, 2023 9:59am
  - 2ic
    
    @Tony Stuart
    Do you think it would have been any different under National/Act? I would argue it would have been worse. Chris Bishop wanted do go door-to-door unhunting out the unvaccinated. David Seymour, was in boots ‘n all for ostracising the unvaccinated from society. Just see for yourself at the 5:00 mark:
    
    https://ondemand.parliament.nz/parliament-tv-on-demand/?itemId=220392
    “We are going to have to consider what sort of rights people have to stipulate vaccination – not that another person must be vaccinated unconditionally – but that they will only transact with a person if that person is vaccinated”
    
    Some contrition and apology from Seymour and Luxon over the Covid response measures they FULLY SUPPORTED is all that is needed. But they were fully complicit in all this and continue to turn their backs on me and many other New Zealanders. As Winston Peters says in the interview regarding vaccine adverse events “they don’t want to know the truth, because the truth might find them out!” (https://twitter.com/c_plushie/status/1674328078573768705).
    
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    June 30, 2023 8:53am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Seymour was wrong. He now knows he was wrong, and will learn from his mistake.
      Of course, you have never been wrong at all, right?
      
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      June 30, 2023 9:02am
      - cmm
        
        Seymour was wrong, and knows he was wrong, but has he acknowledged this and apologised? I haven’t seen him doing so, and I’ll put $100 on the table for anyone that shows any hint of
        
        Being wrong or not is not the issue. Everyone is wrong from time to time. But what is important is:
        * how you respond to incomplete information
        * what you do about it when you’re wrong.
        
        Do you just engage 4 wheel drive and carry on through? Or do you put your hand up, admit fault and promise to learn from it?
        
        It is very similar to “science” that so many talk about but almost none understand. Science is not about being right or being wrong. It is not static knowledge. Science is the CONTINUOUS process by which we look at the evidence, adjust our understanding, re-enforce the good ideas and discard the bad ones.
        
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        June 30, 2023 9:20am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @cmm.
        From my engineering/fabricating experience we were told, the man who never made a fuckup never made anything.
        For me it was not often, but when I did it was a doozy!!
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:18am
      - 2ic
        
        @Steve Otto(North Shore)
        What evidence do you have that Seymour “knows he was wrong”? On the contrary, he’s actually doubled-down on his lack of opposition to the Covid response with this “no one cares about you, mate” response to a well reasoned line of questioning over it:
        https://twitter.com/i/status/1657608146968547328
        
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        June 30, 2023 11:46am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Steve Otto – I was warming to Seymour, right up until he revealed his real thoughts recently when he pushed the blatant disinformation that there is no excess all cause mortality in NZ.
        
        He did this by sleight of hand, comparing the period from the beginning of 2020 to the present time with the 5 year period 2014 – 2019.
        
        In actual fact, all cause excess mortality was 10% last year and running at 18% this year. 2020 and 2021 were anomalies due to our borders being closed and most of us being locked down, going nowhere and doing nothing.
        
        This is no mistake. This was deliberate gaslighting He is too cowardly to admit he was wrong in his advocacy for restrictions and forced vaccinations.
        
        Seymour had the opportunity to say it was a mistake, he decided to double down on the bs narrative. Winston has admitted he supported these things at the time based on the available evidence, that he made a mistake, that he has now changed that position.
        
        That’s Seymour’s choice. We’ll see how it works out come election time.
        
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        June 30, 2023 1:49pm
    - kowtow
      
      And Peters’ role in covid madness ?
      
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      June 30, 2023 9:02am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        kowtow – listen to the Reality Check Radio interview with him.
        
        He’s admitting he got it wrong, that his decisions were based on the available evidence at the time. That there are questions that now need answering.
        
        It’s what I’ve said National and Act should do. It isn’t difficult and it isn’t politically damaging, it’s doing the right thing.
        I said that if National and Act do this they’ll remove that oxygen from Peters. I was shot down in this blog by most for suggesting it.
        
        It now looks like Peters is going to fill that space and he’s doing so without saying anything very controversial at all. Don’t be surprised if he gets to the 5% threshold again.
        
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        June 30, 2023 1:53pm
      - kowtow
        
        clan mc
        
        I truly believe the difference now is Peters is no longer in parliament and is simply desperate to get back in .
        
        If he still had a seat we’d have silence from him , he’da never gone to shake hands with the protesters etc
        
        And I say this on the basis of his proven past behaviour . He’s a snake and he’s desperate to get back in.
        
        The country is better off without him and his cotere of fellow charlatans.
        
        He has never ever followed through on any major promise he’s made and he won’t now ( if he got back in)
        
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        June 30, 2023 3:15pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        kowtow – I fully agree with you re Peters being untrustworthy. 100%. All I’ve been doing here is warning about a potential tactic he will exploit, as you say, anything to get back in one more time.
        He thrives on this sort of shit.
        
        There is a way out for National and Act, I truly hope they take it. Take the oxygen away from him. It would make voting decisions so much easier.
        
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        June 30, 2023 3:52pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      I think National would have at least pulled the NZ Pandemic plan out of the bottom drawer, and with Sir Bill English at the helm I’m supremely confident that there would have been better quality decisions made thereafter.
      
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      June 30, 2023 9:15am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Yes, and if the bitter old asshole had gone with English, then he still would be PM snd we would not be in this utter mess, Nats would have received the 53% support as standing government
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:16am
      - Che Guava
        
        National would have done exactly what Labour and every other government did throughout most of the world, because the true power is not located in the what is referred to as “Halls of Power.” Unless you are an independently wealthy billionaire, you don’t make it into the Halls of Power without being a known “safe pair of hands” for those who really call the shots.
        
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        June 30, 2023 2:27pm
    - Scott
      
      2ic- yes I do think things would have been different under national. National’s first response is not government is the answer. National still has room for private enterprise and free citizens. Labour is the party of big government and big socialist solutions.
      
      I imagine that given the huge pressure worldwide, National would have had some kind of lockdown. But it would have been less intense, it would have been shorter and we would not have had the monopoly of wall-to-wall government messaging telling us how to think 24 hours a day. For one thing the media would not have been as compliant with a National government.
      
      So yes things would have been different.
      Unfortunately we have had the nightmare of the socialists in power and things continue to get worse. They are still to this day telling us to have a booster! To this day you are required to wear a mask visiting patients at Masterton Hospital.
      
      Those in power are reluctant to give it up their covid powers. Remember – power is not just a means to an end. Power is an end in itself.
      
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      June 30, 2023 9:55am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Labtests still wear them, not the clients.
        I did ask why. The girl said ‘it just keeps everyone happy.’
        I am guessing there is a brainwashed one in their ranks.
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:23am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        How was Sweden able to resist the apparent pressure to invoke measures explicitly advised AGAINST by the WHO prior to this ‘pandemic’?
        
        https://dailysceptic.org/2023/01/04/sweden-did-better-than-its-neighbours/?highlight=sweden
        
        Their outcomes were among the best on the planet. But at the time they were vilified by all and sundry.
        
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        June 30, 2023 1:59pm
    - Stellaboxer
      
      To those that down ticked 2ic I’m presuming you did it because you don’t like what he is saying rather than you believe what he is saying is untrue.
      
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      June 30, 2023 9:56am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      You can’t really blame Luxon, he didn’t become an MP until late October 2020, and didn’t become Leader of the Opposition until late 2021, by which time COVID was waning, and Labour had an outright majority, so could ( and did) do whatever they wanted. As far as Nation goes, Bridges, Muller and Collins were more culpable, although still outnumbered by Labour, NZF and the Greens
      
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      June 30, 2023 10:40am
      - Dougal10
        
        Which is why Collins lost. She said they would do the response better than labour with Bishop at her side. People stuck with the Devil that they knew.
        
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        June 30, 2023 12:26pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Yes, and what pisses me off with the hatred of Luxon is the fact that when he became leader on Novemeber 30 2021, he stated, its time to fully open the border, its time to get rid of all lockdowns remembering Auckland were still in lockdown till just before Christmas, and when asked about mandates he stated i cannot see the point in having mandates, we have to get this country moving or we will be left behind.
        
        It is utter bullshit that he supported mandates, he is the only one who has stated they are a waste of time
        
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        June 30, 2023 2:05pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Wait till chippy gets back from Fluville with a load of carriers.
    Lockdowns are great for winning elections.
    
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    June 30, 2023 8:53am
  - Michael Johnston
    
    Peters delivered us the worst government of my lifetime and quite possibly in New Zealand’s history. I don’t care what he says to reingratiate himself, he’s a self-interested mountebank. What he says is uncorrelated with either what he will do, or with the truth.
    
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    June 30, 2023 8:54am
    - kowtow
      
      And chuck his side kick ,that shyster Jones in there too .
      
      He seems to be gaining undeserved currency with certain broadcasters at the moment.
      
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      June 30, 2023 10:59am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Tony,
    
    You have forgotten the lethality of the first two strains of covid. About 2% of those who contracted covid died from it. Even the current strain is significantly more lethal than the common flu.
    
    In 2020, there was enormous public pressure to keep NZ safe. The lockdowns and the MIQ had huge public as well as medical support. Reflected in the election later in the year, and also by every political party in parliament.
    
    It was the later lockdowns that were controversial, especially the third lockdown in Auckland.
    
    10 52
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    June 30, 2023 8:57am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Wayne – the covid Infection Mortality Rate was 0.15%.
      
      Where did you get the 2% figure from?
      
      43 3
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      June 30, 2023 9:23am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I don’t think he will answer you.
        
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        June 30, 2023 9:38am
      - Tom Hunter
        
        Wayne’s big on assertions, not argument. You should just take his word for it since he’s a comfortable member of the centre of The Establishment, with all its expertise, brainpower and reputation. The Experts™, appointed by TPTB, have spoken and that’s all he needs.
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:07am
      - G152
        
        He was a politician. Lying comes haturally
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:38am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Wayne, the mortality rate for the entire population was way lower than 2 percent. In the USA, at the peak of the Delta strain, the mortality rate was about 0.7 percent. However most of these deaths were in the 80+ group.
      
      The mortality rate for the 16 – 65 group was about 0.1 percent, almost exactly the same as the flu mortality rate experienced in New Zealand every winter, perhaps less.
      
      Whole of population mortality rates varied by country but none came close to 2 percent.
      
      https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2022/11/9/covid-subvariant-mortality/
      
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10125879/
      
      I am not going to get into any detail about the benefits of the vaccine, because I don’t have time. However, it is certain that the benefits of the vaccine were transitory. The evidence I have seen is that fully vaccinated very elderly and vulnerable people benefited from the vaccine, if they had received the vaccine and boosters within 6 months of being infected. For everyone else it made not much difference.
      
      In summary, your claim of a 2 percent fatality rate for the total population is incorrect.
      
      65 3
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      June 30, 2023 9:25am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Benedict Yu is back! We need your intelligent comments, we miss them.
        Thanks for those links.
        
        52 2
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        June 30, 2023 9:31am
      - Opie
        
        Wait, is this the real Benedict back?
        
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        June 30, 2023 9:32am
      - alex Masterley
        
        Welcome back.
        
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        June 30, 2023 9:36am
      - Rodney Hide
        
        Benedict is back. Makes my day.
        
        Rodney Hide
        
        52 0
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        June 30, 2023 9:44am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        We’ve missed you heaps.
        
        43 0
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        June 30, 2023 9:53am
      - kevn
        
        Good work… I’m sure you will have been following the KB over recent times.
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:07am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        Can I join the welcome back Benedict club?
        
        33 0
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        June 30, 2023 10:14am
      - Thought Criminal
        
        I’m so glad you are back!
        
        23 0
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        June 30, 2023 10:18am
      - Taieri
        
        Good to see you commenting again!
        
        22 0
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        June 30, 2023 10:25am
      - jon
        
        Welcome back the always common sense Benedict Yu. You have been missed.
        
        22 0
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        June 30, 2023 10:36am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        I was considering the very first strain. Relatively few people got it, but the deaths were considerable. In fact virtually an entire rest home in Christchurch died. Yes, they were old and also had dementia, But they died of Covid.
        Delta was more widespread and had a lower level of fatalities. Around 0.7 as you stated. But for a relatively widespread disease that is pretty high. About ten times the flu rate. Even Omicron is two or three times the flu rate. The Omicron death rate goes a long way to explain the current increased death rate.
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:40am
      - Bobba Fret
        
        I missed your comments Benedict. Welcome back.
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:49am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Wayne Map says:
        
        “Delta was more widespread and had a lower level of fatalities.”
        
        No. The Delta strain was more contagious, put more people in hospital, and was more deadly than the preceding COVID “variants of concern” as well as the “original” COVIS strain.
        
        “A Canadian study has given more evidence of the much sharper virulence of SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern, with the Delta strain appearing to be the most dangerous yet.”
        
        https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/study-suggests-delta-more-than-doubles-death-risk
        
        So again, you are flat out mistaken.
        
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        June 30, 2023 11:00am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Wayne Mapp says:
        
        “Even Omicron is two or three times the flu rate. ”
        
        Again, that is simply false. The Delta variant, pre vaccines had a higher fatality rate. However then two things happened:
        
        The very elderly were vaccinated. Most of them still got COVID but their fatality rates dropped.
        
        Then OMICRON became the dominant variant. Within a few months the mortality rate for Omicron fell below the mortality rate for seasonal flu.
        
        This data is from England and Wales, but the picture was similar in New Zealand.
        
        “A combination of high levels of immunity and the reduced severity of the Omicron variant has rendered Covid-19 less lethal than influenza for the vast majority of people in England…”
        
        https://www.ft.com/content/e26c93a0-90e7-4dec-a796-3e25e94bc59b
        
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        June 30, 2023 11:08am
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        BY, you were missed.
        Even more so than Stephieboy.
        
        But what happened to Windogast?
        
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        June 30, 2023 11:51am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        The fatality rate I indicated relates to those who contracted covid, not as a proportion of the total population.
        
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        June 30, 2023 12:00pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Wayne Mapp says:
        
        “The fatality rate I indicated relates to those who contracted covid, not as a proportion of the total population.”
        
        Yes the “case fatality rate”. I understand. It is not 2 percent. Give it up. 🙂
        
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        June 30, 2023 12:09pm
      - oldfella
        
        We’ve really missed you, Benedict. 🙂
        
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        June 30, 2023 12:51pm
      - Che Guava
        
        Debate about mortality rates and whether or not those rates justified, or would justify in the future, governments making the populace stay at home, or wear a mask, or mandate vaccination is just a distraction from the central issue which is that, whether the mortality rate is 100% or 0.001%, the government in any case has zero right to tell you that you must follow their dictates. They can make all the recommendations they like when there is an illness in the community, but whether or not people follow their advice is completely up to the individual. Because free people are autonomous and sovereign over their body, everyone is free to risk getting sick or dying if they so choose.
        
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        June 30, 2023 2:31pm
      - mawm
        
        Che – 100x uptick. Because free people are autonomous and sovereign over their body, That is absolute and no NZ politician has the balls to address what has been taken away from us. Seymour with his fancy libertarian ideas is particularly disappointing. Hipkins and Luxon not so much because we know they are both beholden to the UN/WHO/WEF/Billy Goats/BlackRock narrative.
        
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        June 30, 2023 6:30pm
    - kowtow
      
      ‘It was the later lockdowns that were controversial, especially the third lockdown in Auckland.’
      
      Sadly people are slow learners . Especially when we have a fear mongering panic inducing media .
      
      Sweden showed the way , and even that shouldn’t have been the exception, they were simply following the long laid plans that all western nations have for such events .And yet they were attacked by all and sundry.
      
      Instead we were driven by fear mongering nonsense from the media and we simply copied the other fools who took the Italian and Chinese authoritarian lead.
      
      Always recall Ardern claiming she acted on some mysterious phone call where the still unrevealed and unknown informant said this is was gonna be very bad , yet it wasn’t .
      
      Why have plans when a knee jerk reaction will suffice.
      
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      June 30, 2023 9:26am
      - Inandout
        
        kowtow, I still marvel at Aucklanders’ stupidity in their willing compliance to Jacinda’s edicts over the 100 day lockdown.
        
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        June 30, 2023 9:36am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        She’s gone now. Fucked over NZ enough and ran, without facing the music.
        
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        June 30, 2023 9:45am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        They actually had plans, they just ignored them after Ardern “spoke to a mate in the UK” as you mentioned.
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:29am
    - cmm
      
      “About 2% of those who contracted covid died from it. ” Bullshit.
      
      There has never been such an arbitrary association between covid and deaths. In the beginning we didn’t even really have an effective way to measure if people had covid or not.
      
      Almost all the deaths in the first wave were on death’s door anyway and had massive medical complications. It is wrong to characterise them as Covid deaths.
      
      I do however agree that in the absence of knowledge (as there was in the beginning), some isolation, and even MIQ, was justified for a while to allow for some time to gather more information.
      
      But the vaccination policies were never justifiable in NZ.
      
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      June 30, 2023 9:27am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        2% is 2 million of a bill in, how many deaths has there been now, it’s more than 2 million is it not?
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:23am
      - Bobba Fret
        
        Remember the guy that was shot on his driveway while isolating from Covid (West Auckland I think), he died from Covid!
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:52am
      - Vercingetorix
        
        “2% is 2 million of a bill in, how many deaths has there been now, it’s more than 2 million is it not?”
        
        What? 🙂
        
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        June 30, 2023 6:10pm
    - Rodney Hide
      
      Wayne
      
      Your numbers are incorrect by an order of magnitude. By May 2020 WHO was reporting an IFR of 0.2 percent.
      
      Of course, the risk was skewed by age and health by three orders of magnitude.
      
      Pre 2020 pandemic planning ruled out lockdowns. We now know they were ineffective and the costs were horrendous.
      
      The clamour for lockdowns was manufactured by the manufactured fear that included shutting down eminent scientists who were aghast at the fear mongering and lock downs.
      
      Rodney Hide
      
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      June 30, 2023 9:33am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        2% and 0.2%. There is that roving decimal point again.
        
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        June 30, 2023 9:48am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Rodney, Wayne fid say in the first two variants, not in total
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:26am
      - Rodney Hide
        
        G
        
        That’s why I reported May 2020.
        
        Here is the paper.
        
        https://apps.who.int/iris/handle/10665/340124
        
        Rodney
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:39am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        For the first strain NZ did not have 20,000 cases which is what a 0.2% lethality rate would indicate. As best I recall there were about 40 deaths from the first strain, essentially all before the second lockdown, which was related to Delta.
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:45am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        Rodney,
        
        The fatality rate has been significantly higher than 0.2% of the total population in those developed countries which got badly hit by the first two strains. Just to take some developed countries, where stats (from World o meter) are reasonably robust.
        
        The US has 3,489 deaths per million of the total population and the UK has 3,303 per million. Sweden (beloved by many here) has 2,399 per million. Australia and New Zealand are much lower, with Australia at 829 per million and New Zealand at 921 per million. Cutting ourselves off from the world, which both Australia and NZ did, made a real difference.
        
        These fatality rates are of the entire population and not just of those who got covid. For the first two strains, most people, even in the US and the UK, did not get covid. Covid became population wide with Omicron. I would note the a 0.2% fatality rate equates to a death rate of 2,000 per million.
        
        I only got engaged on this issue because of the current comments about the politics of covid as it affects current voting patterns. I generally leave this subject alone because I know that Kiwiblog is primarily a forum for those who decry every aspect of New Zealand’s response to covid. It is generally better for those so inclined to have their views without comment.
        
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        June 30, 2023 11:38am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The counting methods were all up the boohai, and you know that Wayne.
      Many die from underlying medical conditions they did not even know they had.
      They died ‘with’ Covid, not because of Covid.
      My Sister in law died with Covid. We all knew of her condition though. Invasive mouth/throat cancer. Terrible way to die, and being recorded as dying from Covid was straight out bullshit – all to get the numbers up and push the fear porn!
      
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      June 30, 2023 9:36am
      - cmm
        
        Ditto my twice-vaxxed mother. She died with both lungs full of muck and covid, but she was riddled with cancer, was 84 and had a dicky heart and was in terminal care. Covid might have just shortened her life by 2 weeks or so.
        
        Likely that was the same for those first 10 “Covid deaths” in Christchurch’s Rosewood “Rest home” which Stuff called: “Rosewood rest home, NZ’s deadliest Covid-19 cluster”. Rosewood is a terminal care place. Nobody goes home from there in a taxi.
        
        People die in Rosewood after eating breakfast or after the sun goes down or comes up, or Covid. They don’t die because of breakfast, the sun going down/coming up or Covid.
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:20am
      - leoj
        
        ….and not refuted by ANY opposition party.
        
        Nats and ACT – hugely disappointing.
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:40am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @cmm,
        Your last paragraph tells it perfectly.
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:48am
    - softail 1450
      
      Wayne. just because Everyone piled on to the covid responses doesn’t make it right, scientists who knew better and tried to warn governments were blocked and banned when they spoke up about the lies being told by big pharma and big tech.
      
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      June 30, 2023 9:37am
    - Ghost
      
      Did they Wayne? My cousin was an offical Covid death in 2020, he died from cancer not Covid. With the lies and manipulation of people’s deaths thee is no way you can trust the figures
      
      Reminds me of the guy in the usa who died in a motor cycle accident and was listed as a Covid death
      
      Also reminds me of the hospital in Brazil that had the highest Covid death rate, when investigated the hospital had no staff and was still under construction.
      
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      June 30, 2023 9:55am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Tony Stuart – I’ll never forget that, but nor will I forget that National and Act fully endorsed those policies and in fact, claimed that they would have done the same only more efficiently.
    
    Wasn’t it Chris Bishop who wanted door to door vaccinations?
    
    https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/29-07-2021/chris-bishop-five-ideas-to-improve-new-zealands-vaccine-rollout
    
    Seymour was looking a little better, up until he twisted statistics to support his nonsensical claims about NZ having negative excess all cause mortality.
    
    Pretending it never happened and hoping it goes away isn’t very mature and it isn’t going to happen. It’s why the Nats/Act are struggling to stay level in the polls with the worst government in history.
    
    It’s easily fixed. Man up, do the right thing. Acknowledge the damage done and promise to ensure nothing like it ever happens again. National/Act will gain an instant minimum 5% in the polls.
    
    Or do nothing, hope it goes away, and give Winston the 5% and hope and pray he doesn’t screw it up again. Over to you Mr Luxon and Mr Seymour.
    
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    June 30, 2023 9:03am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Rodney, Wayne fid say in the first two variants, not in totalTT to Benthsmjs for giving Labour a chance, that is sll you do by wasting your vote
      
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      June 30, 2023 10:28am
      - leoj
        
        We will vote any way we bloody well like.
        
        [Mod – abuse deleted]
        
        Our entire government, all 121 MPs acted disgracefully during the lockdowns and protest.
        
        So far they are ALL silent on their disgusting behaviour.
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:46am
      - Vercingetorix
        
        Dude you really need to proof read your comments before you hit the button. 🙂
        
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        June 30, 2023 6:11pm
    - mic
      
      Didn’t Luxon, early in 2022, call for the government to call an end to mandates?
      
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      June 30, 2023 1:09pm
- Gravelroad
  
  I dispute your claim that Mr Peters is a “major political figure”.
  
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  June 30, 2023 8:07am
  - peterwn
    
    If his party can get 5% of the party vote in October Winston may very well become a major political figure again.
    
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    June 30, 2023 8:27am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      peterwn – plus 10.
      
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      June 30, 2023 9:29am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      No kingmaker. It is the last thing we want – a rotten blackmailer.
      
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      June 30, 2023 10:54am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Then take the covid oxygen away from him. It’s really simple.
        
        I cannot understand the intransigence from National/Act and their supporters.
        
        None of them have been able to give a rational reason why they won’t simply acknowledge there were issues?
        
        They don’t have to go full ‘anti vaccine’, simply acknowledge that mandates were wrong, lockdowns were wrong and the vaccines appear to be very ineffectual for the majority of people. Then promise never to be so stupid ever again.
        
        All of these things are true. Pretending they aren’t won’t attract undecided voters.
        
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        June 30, 2023 12:01pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      If he does get 5%, then Act will drop to 7-8%
      
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      June 30, 2023 2:15pm
  - Matt Long
    
    Peters is the best opposition politician of a generation, in government not so much.
    Giving power to Clark then Ardern, and the statement “Capitalism has failed” means he has a lot of purgatory to work on.
    How’s that wonderful socialism you bought us working out now Winston?
    
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    June 30, 2023 8:34am
    - JimBobJoe
      
      He is a great tub thump and very sly at making insinuations with out defaming
      
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      June 30, 2023 8:37am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      No he is not, best opposition MPs get things done when in government, this turd has gone nothing shaft level headed voters
      
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      June 30, 2023 8:47am
    - Ian Boag
      
      Giving power to Clark then Ardern
      
      … and Bolger ….
      
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      June 30, 2023 8:59am
      - Matt Long
        
        Bolger did fewer bad things in government than anyone since.
        Not a high bar of course.
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:06am
      - leoj
        
        Ian:
        
        Bolger gave us MMP, arguably the basis for all the crap this country has had to face ever since.
        
        But for MMP there would be no Green Party and no Maori Party in actual government.
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:49am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @leoj,
        I voted for MMP – not knowing how it really worked.
        Proportional Representation seemed a good idea. I was wrong, and so were thousands of others. Now we will never be able to change it back.
        
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        June 30, 2023 11:00am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Best Opposition politician? Then let’s vote him into Opposition. Don’t let him anywhere near Office.
      
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      June 30, 2023 9:16am
    - Unity
      
      In opposition Peters always says the right things and asks the right question as well as promising to right things when he is in power but it never happens. He is just saying what he thinks will get him elected. The trouble is, what he says is usually right on the knocker. Such a pity he doesn’t follow through. I fell for it once but never again!!
      
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      June 30, 2023 9:19am
      - Mike
        
        He is just saying what he thinks will get him elected
        
        So how’s that different from other politicians?
        
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        June 30, 2023 9:37am
      - Ghost
        
        So basically Winston is being a politician and doing what every other politician does?
        
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        June 30, 2023 9:39am
  - Paulus
    
    Peter was a major political figure.
    No longer, is a has been.
    
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    June 30, 2023 10:03am
- G152
  
  Peters put the current geniuses into power.
  Dont forget that
  
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  June 30, 2023 8:08am
- Cassandra
  
  People who vote for Peters are part of the problem, the biggest part. He’s a charlatan, you are aiding and abetting.
  
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  June 30, 2023 8:15am
- kowtow
  
  Peters has built his political career making a fool out of people who think he’s there for anyone other than himself.
  
  Fool me once etc
  
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  June 30, 2023 8:18am
- ClanMcleod
  
  8 downticks. Some people just can’t handle the truth.
  
  I’ve been pointing out the likelihood of Winston seizing this opportunity for a while now. I get a similar negative response.
  
  That the refusal of National and Act to even acknowledge the hundreds of thousands negatively impacted by policies around mandates, vaccines and lockdowns is the reason why they are struggling in the polls against the worst government in NZ history.
  
  There is alarming evidence of a substantial increase in all cause mortality that correlates with the rollout of the experimental jabs.
  
  There are substantial numbers who are physically, financially and mentally damaged due to the abuses heaped on them during the nightmare of the last 3 years.
  
  The policy of all political parties is to pretend nothing happened and hope it all goes away. That will never happen, particularly for those worst affected.
  But even if it didn’t impact you directly, any decent human being should be recognising the horrific abuses of the last three years, because they have ripped the heart out of this country. It’s a broken place.
  
  The horrors need to be acknowledged, and they need to be addressed in a meaningful way. Failure to do so will leave a festering boil that will poison the country for many years to come.
  
  It’s up to National and Act. They can fix this quite simply and will find themselves with daylight between them and the worst government in history, as there should be. They just need to do the right thing. Nothing special. Just do the right thing.
  
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  June 30, 2023 8:30am
  - Simon
    
    “It’s up to National and Act. They can fix this quite simply ”
    
    Jax rate of 95% (even if probably 85%) Too many sheep. Cant be fixed. Its insane.
    
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    June 30, 2023 8:40am
    - mawm
      
      That’s a lot of vax injury. But first they need to be educated as to what is a probable vax injury, post mortem examinations need to be done and the results acknowledged.
      
      A friends healthy 30 yo son died “in his sleep”. He has not questioned why. I doubt he knows about excess deaths and the new medical term SDS.
      
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      June 30, 2023 6:42pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    They were Labours mandates, snd Peters was in government ffs
    
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    June 30, 2023 8:48am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      G – fully endorsed by National and Act and their only criticism was that Labour weren’t doing it efficiently enough.
      
      At least Seymour called for a vax or test policy rather than only vax mandates. Weak as piss, but it was better than ‘door door vaccines, get boosted’ Chris Bishop.
      
      You want votes? Then get National to do the right thing. They’ll gain far more votes than they might lose, and they’ll be doing the right thing which is a bonus.
      
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      June 30, 2023 12:54pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        [Mod – I will unlock your account tomorrow. Stop the personal abuse, stop the swearing]
        
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        June 30, 2023 2:19pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    Clan, nobody in National or Act are going to say they got it wrong over COVID. Politicians, don’t back down or say sorry. What you get is people like Peters who play on people forgetting that he was front & centre in the decision making and as to what followed & happened.
    
    What you will get if you speak privately to senior National & Act MPs is that what happened during the COVID response was wrong, and went too far. But you will never get a public admission that the respective parties got it wrong or an apology
    
    Politicians don’t admit their mistakes, and they don’t apologised unless it is for a historic event and they want to grandstand, e.g. Ardern apologizing to the Pacific Island Community for the Dawn Raids in the 1970s.
    
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    June 30, 2023 9:03am
    - Matt Long
      
      Politicians are like salesman, in private they’ll tell you the sun will shine at night to get votes and money.
      
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      June 30, 2023 10:09am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      hullkiwi – I hear you, but I reiterate, an apology would be nice, but it isn’t a requirement.
      
      I think most people would accept an acknowledgment of what we all know were very bad, very destructive policies? Along with a commitment that such a response won’t happen again, I believe you’ll find many people would be happy with that.
      
      I would. But I will struggle to vote for those who want to pretend nothing happened, tell us to shut up, get over it, move on. That’s not going to happen.
      Or worse, Seymour deliberately twisting statistics to tell a lie about excess mortality rates. That was cowardly.
      It may be I sit this election out if there is nobody who represents me. It’s a long way to go.
      
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      June 30, 2023 10:10am
    - leoj
      
      Dawn raids that started under a LABOUR government, 1973, Norman Kirk was PM.
      
      Of course Jacinda should have apologised. It was her freekin’ party!
      
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      June 30, 2023 10:08pm
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    How many voters are using National and Act’s support of the covid measure as the reason not to support them and are supporting Labour, the Greens and TPM instead?
    
    Which is effectively what you are suggesting. I would say way less than 5%.
    
    In my view the reason why Labour is holding up is because people have not lost their jobs. Unemployment is still very low. In contrast, in 1990 and 2008 unemployment was rising with their respective recessions. If this changes in the next few months there will be a big turn around in the polls.
    
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    June 30, 2023 9:16am
    - Grumpy Silver Haired Female
      
      Homo sapiens has never been good at logic over emotion. The opposition supported lockdowns by the government so I won’t vote for them, really? Take a reality check, which party imposed the lockdowns? Does that mean that doing it is not as bad as supporting it? Aaargh!
      
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      June 30, 2023 9:28am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        GSHF – I didn’t say I won’t vote for the opposition. Here’s my position.
        
        I will NEVER vote for Labour EVER again in my life. As for the Greens and Maori Party, not a chance.
        I’m a reformed, old school working man Labour supporter. They are no longer the party of the working classes. They are bunch of virtue signaling, ideologically driven morons. I digress.
        
        I haven’t decided who will get my vote yet. I’ll be voting to get rid of the morons currently destroying the country. I’ll be waiting very close to the time to see who I think is best placed to make this happen. However, the response to covid was one of the worst periods in NZ history so forgetting it and ‘moving on’ isn’t an option. It needs to be addressed.
        
        I’m pointing out that National and Act don’t need to apologise. They just need to acknowledge that what happened was wrong.
        
        They have a get out of jail card. They were given the bullshit information by Labour. They can point this out and say that, based on the current scientific evidence, mistakes were made that they wouldn’t have supported otherwise. That they will ensure such a panic isn’t permitted again. That they will investigate the increase in all cause mortality. That they will investigate the jab injuries.
        
        It’s called doing the right thing. Not apologising. It’s showing moral fibre and the majority of people appreciate it when they see it.
        
        Hoping it goes away is cowardly.
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:00am
      - leoj
        
        Clan:
        
        The two downtickers (as of 10:10pm) ARE Labour morons. There are still lots of them.
        
        You and I are in the same boat. I really don’t trust any of the bastards running the country. It will be a case eliminating the worst, the next worst, the next worst then voting for who is left.
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:13pm
    - cmm
      
      Wayne, one huge problem I have with what you post (and I admit this is MY problem, not yours) is that you so often justify things through polling, votes etc.
      
      ie.. X was the right thing to do because the voters supported it.
      
      That’s not leadership, that’s a fashion show.
      
      Leadership requires that the leaders find useful information and help to formulate policies etc. They acknowledge that things will change and help to lead people through that.
      
      Or, as an analogy, leaders will encourage kids to eat their veges and do their homework. They will explain the long term benefits of doing so. Leaders won’t just ask the kids if they want infinite lollies and Xbox.
      
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      June 30, 2023 9:36am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        cmm “Leadership requires that the leaders find useful information and help to formulate policies etc. They acknowledge that things will change and help to lead people through that.”
        
        They also take the people with them through regular “no BS” effective communication. Very important in my view.
        
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        June 30, 2023 12:34pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Wayne – nobody who was opposed to covid measures is going to vote for Labour/Greens/TPM. NOBODY.
      
      I believe firmly, there are a substantial number of voters right now who are undecided, who are looking around for someone to represent their voices. They are loosely called the ‘freedom movement’. They were hopeful for Democracy NZ. Their recent disintegration was a setback.
      
      There is nobody currently speaking for this group of people. My prediction has been, and still is, that the first person or group to stand up for them will attract most of these votes. Particularly if that Party or person has an actual chance of getting into parliament.
      That’s why I warn National and Act about the substantial risk that Winston will use this lever to wangle his way back in. That’s not something I endorse, but it is a real danger. National/Act can easily prevent this, but they refuse to do so.
      
      An interesting few months coming up.
      
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      June 30, 2023 10:18am
      - General
        
        Check this out Clan, interesting take.
        https://billricejr.substack.com/p/ed-dowd-was-dead-wrong-on-one-prediction
        
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        June 30, 2023 11:30am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        How big is this group? That being the people who will never vote Labour, Green or TPM but are not convinced by National or Act.
        From what I can see, it is not that large. The range of anti covid parties are getting around 1% or less. Winston, who arguably is now in the same category is around 3%.
        Two comments. The first is that the two major parties are barely getting 70%, instead of the more typical 80%. The second is that most of the 30% of the rest of the vote is going to the Act and the Greens, with TPM and Winston getting almost all the rest. All other parties are around 1% each or less.
        
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        June 30, 2023 11:49am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        I would also note that if Winston Peters gets 5% or more a change of government is absolutely certain. But if he doesn’t, then based on current polls that prospect is significantly less so. It is something of a toss up at the moment.
        
        That is why some commentators on the right (Hooton for one) see getting Winston back as highly desirable. In that event he would become Foreign Minister, which is a job he does pretty well.
        
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        June 30, 2023 12:06pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        @General – cheers for that link, it’s a very good analysis and potentially on the money.
        
        Undoubtedly this information is being actively suppressed, I do believe many more people are starting to realise this and starting to ask more questions.
        I have friends who were fully onboard with the narrative up until maybe 6 months ago, but who now acknowledge I wasn’t a raving ‘conspiracy theorist’ and that everything I was telling them has turned out to be the truth. The good thing has been, they are rational people and we were able to have conversations and disagree about things without falling out with each other.
        
        I know they are still in the disbelief stage regarding the numbers of potential deaths so far from iatrogenic, lockdown and jab deaths, but they do acknowledge that the jabs don’t work. They also agree that masking is useless.
        
        It’s a long journey, I think the truth will get through to the majority eventually, but it may well be that most will prefer to forget it ever happened, like a bad nightmare.
        The long term consequences of what has happened are difficult to predict, but the damage done to trust is massive. It will leave society damaged for very many years to come.
        
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        June 30, 2023 12:17pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        @Wayne Mapp – who knows exactly how big that group is? We know the protesters had 30% support for their actions in polling done at the time. A substantial number that surprised many commentators at the time. That number will certainly not have diminished over the last 18 months.
        
        Your statistics re support for various parties are interesting, though how many are in the ‘don’t know’ category? I believe it is substantially higher than would normally be the case.
        I would be classed as one of those ‘freedom movement’ people. I was in Wellington for 10 days at the protest. I have many, many friends and associates who are in the same frame of mind as me.
        The common theme in conversation is, where is the best place to put our vote to destroy Labour/Greens/TPM.
        
        It should be National/Act, they have the greatest chance of getting power, but giving our votes to parties who’s only point of difference at the time was to say they would do the same thing ‘better’, is a very bitter pill that most of us refuse to swallow.
        
        Especially frustrating is the blanket refusal to even admit that there might have been problems with some of the interventions.
        I believe Winston’s recent comments and his interview with Paul Brennan on Reality Check Radio was him testing the waters on this.
        
        https://realitycheck.radio/winston-peters-on-the-covid-response-his-answer-to-a-very-serious-question-that-went-viral/
        
        In the interview, Winston does exactly what I suggested National and Act should do. Claim you supported it at the time based on the available expert advice and information available. That you have changed position due to new information available.
        
        Winston will be looking at the next poll with keen interest and if he detects a move upwards and associates it with his ‘red pill’ moment, you can bet it will see him tread further down that path. He will gain the support of the people who won’t let this go.
        Is it over 5%? I don’t know for certain, but it very well may be.
        
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        June 30, 2023 12:32pm
      - Vercingetorix
        
        “I would also note that if Winston Peters gets 5% or more a change of government is absolutely certain.”
        
        Really? ‘Absolutely certain’. You trust Winston to that extent?
        
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        June 30, 2023 12:34pm
      - Ghost
        
        Well it will be a change but a change to a Winston first national or a change to a Winston first labour
        
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        June 30, 2023 12:38pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Well, just tell me one party that will make parliament, DNZ are f….d, and King will not win Northland , Nats polled Northland and only 10% supported him, all he will do is split the vote and let the worst mp in history win the seat and she is hated up ‘North
        
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        June 30, 2023 2:22pm
  - 2ic
    
    @ClanMcleod
    At least someone here gets it! I agree wholeheartedly with everything you are saying (including your comment in yesterday’s GD).
    
    National/Act were completely complicit in the Covid response, and pretending nothing happened and hoping it all goes away is not good enough. They failed in their duty to stand up for the rights of New Zealanders, and by this stage have had plenty of opportunities to acknowledge the mistakes that were made but have simply maintained a stonewall of silence.
    
    If an opportunist like Winston Peters sweeps in an collects the votes of disaffected New Zealanders, Seymour and Luxon have only themselves to blame.
    
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    June 30, 2023 12:20pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      No they were not completely complicit at all, Bridges won an award for his work in the committee they has during covid, much of it was anti what these idiots were doing , illegal lockdowns and the like , where you fools get they were complicit from is beyond me, i hated lockdown more than anyone else, but only one government put the illegal lock downs in place, and those parties were Labour NZF and the lunatic greens
      
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      June 30, 2023 2:26pm
      - leoj
        
        Then how do you explain that NOT ONE MP was prepared to talk with the protestors.
        
        They were ALL in lock step. Case closed!
        
        Bastards, the lot of them.
        
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        June 30, 2023 10:21pm
- Nigel Kearney
  
  And I dispute his use of the word ‘probably’.
  
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  June 30, 2023 8:30am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Peters can stick it up his ass, he created the utter mess we have, snd if it was not for Labour you would not have had mandates, don’t say no, because as I remember when we went to level 4 the MOH took over the running of the country, nothing any other party could have done
  
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  June 30, 2023 8:45am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I would say Peters ‘enabled’ the mess we have.
    A rabid socialist actually created the mess.
    
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    June 30, 2023 11:14am
- rouppe
  
  One of the key things I haven’t been hearing is a review of the Swedish response.
  
  At the time everyone criticised it as “dangerous”, “an experiment” and “not following the science”.
  
  In the washup now, what I’m seeing is that NO ONE is talking about Sweden. What that says to me is that Sweden is not an outlier in any of the metrics that matter – deaths, deaths/million etc. However Sweden continued to keep their industry open when everyone else was locked down.
  
  So in any review, what I would ~~hope~~ expect is that the Swedish model be a lot closer to any future response.
  
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  June 30, 2023 11:22am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    @rouppe – and that response will be exactly the same as the pandemic preparedness plan NZ had, that was updated in 2017, but was unceremoniously trashed by Ardern, Bloomfield and the bevy of idiotic ‘experts’ they trotted out.
    That should be one of the biggest questions asked. Why? Why would you dump plans that were already in place for such an event?
    
    It makes zero sense.
    
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    June 30, 2023 3:15pm
- AitchW
  
  I’m sure the man who gave us what is arguably the worst government in our history would be desperate to redeem himself, no matter what lies he needs to tell to do it. Hopefully the electorate will show its disdain for him and his party again at the election.
  
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  June 30, 2023 12:37pm
Warren

Here is another reason this Labour Government has been a disaster and disgrace to the idiots that put them in power.
Labour has become a laughing stock because that think failure is a winner and today Debra Russell actually believes that with her comments that Census was a success even though the targets were not achieved .
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/492870/minister-declares-census-a-success-despite-return-estimates-falling-short-of-target
So now you can put Census in the same bracket of failure with Health,Economy, Immigration, Finance, Education, Local Government, Transport Law and Order and a few others that have been absolute ” Failures” that this Government thinks we’re winners.
God help New Zealand if this excuse for a Government get another term.
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June 30, 2023 8:00am
- Paulus
  
  How can this Census like the previous be sucessful.
  I believe I heard 89% overall, with 69% Maori and 74% PI.
  How can we know how many Maori there are for Maori Seats etc, we have heard 16% for years but these are made up figures surely.
  What a disaster again for Censuses.
  
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  June 30, 2023 10:08am
  - Flossie
    
    You have to wonder if there is any point whatsoever in the future to have another census to not provide any worthwhile statistics. And wasting millions of dollars. As my mother often used to tell us, we don’t have money to throw away you know!
    
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    June 30, 2023 10:45am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Can you still get a food voucher from the Waipareira Trust for filling the form in?
    
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    June 30, 2023 11:17am
  - Littletramp
    
    1) How do they know 69% of maori responded? 69% of what number?
    2) How can the number of maori be increasing, when the blood is being diluted each and every year? i.e. logic & math says there must be less maori every year.
    3) Why must a citizen declare themselves to be either maori or european if they are born in this country? What if you are not European but 5th generation New Zealander.
    Lies, more lies and statistics.
    
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    June 30, 2023 11:36am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      “How can the number of maori be increasing, when the blood is being diluted each and every year? i.e. logic & math says there must be less maori every year.”
      
      The woke young on discovering a smidgen of Maori heritage . It’s cool to be a “born again Maori” with “grievances” to do with a world and a time they never inhabited.
      
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      June 30, 2023 12:38pm
imalwaysright

It shows how compliant kiwis are when they have a country in ruins and the government reinstate a tax meant for roads that are also in ruins, their first instinct is to fill their cars to save $15.

Any other country would be marching on Parliament .
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June 30, 2023 8:03am
NeverMindTheBollocks

The cycling fanatics insist it’ll be good for retail, while retailers are unanimous that it won’t.

Who to believe, who to believe …

Ironically, all of the images are devoid of people. Even the illustrators don’t believe their own spin.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/wellington/132436998/last-minute-bid-to-stop-lets-get-wellington-moving-fails
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June 30, 2023 8:03am
- nathie
  
  Common sense is now seen as an outdated concept.
  
  I recall discussions in the 70’s and 80’s as as youngster as to whether to close off the likes of Lambton Quay to cars. And provide more cycling options for cyclist commuters.
  
  They were acknowledged then as being “ideal”, but common sense acknowledged they would not be practical for a host of reasons.
  
  Such as closing Lambton Quay to cars would impact businesses, goods deliveries and simply cause car traffic congestion elsewhere (eg on the streets that lead up to LQ).
  
  Similarly investment in bike lanes wouldn’t attract a lot of use to make them worthwhile due to the weather conditions (constant wind all year around and rain and winter conditions) and the typography (hills).
  
  Today the WCC Labour Green muppets clearly have no common sense and blindly follow “green” ideology” – no leeway must be given, comrade.
  
  And go full retard by wanting to close off car access from not just LQ but all the way to Courtney Place. All without investment in alternative transports routes for cars … so cars will be backed up for miles and miles and miles leading up to LQ/CP.
  
  The WCC Labour Green muppets think everyone will convert to buses or cycles or walking.
  
  Picture this: buses will zip up and down Lambton Quay and Courtenay Place, but because of the congestion for miles leading up to LQ/CP, buses will be stranded once they leave LQ/CP and will incur delays reaching LQ/CP!
  
  Cyclists will have to weave around stalled buses (in bus/cycle lanes) or around cars where there are no cycle lanes.
  
  Let’s Get Wellington Moving will become yet more leftwing deceit as the reality will become Let’s Get Wellington Stalled … and Broken …. and Busted! But hey keep voting us back in to “fix” this better “next time”!
  
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  June 30, 2023 9:44am
  - artemisia
    
    Impacted businesses will simply take themselves, and their deliveries, elsewhere under LGWM. Or shut up shop. And from the look of all the empty CBD storefronts, already happening.
    
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    June 30, 2023 1:40pm
- Vercingetorix
  
  Near where I live… about 4 years ago a developer built a ‘strip mall’. It has about 10 shops. It has been a disaster. Four shops permanently empty. The rest a revolving door of businesses that shut up after 6 – 12 months.
  
  1.5 km down the road, there is a similar sized strip mall with thriving businesses.
  
  What is different?
  
  The first set of shops have no parking – not even street parking.
  
  The second set of shops has parking for about 40 cars.
  
  Real world vs fantasy.
  
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  June 30, 2023 10:42am
  - rouppe
    
    Another real world vs fantasy. PaknSave here in Porirua is going the next step on “single use plastics” by removing plastic bags to put loose items (tomatoes, fruit, beans etc) innto.
    
    And they’re not providing an alternative. None.
    
    It’s such a pain in the arse, I’m likely to try switching supermarkets.
    
    By the way as I was shopping there, they were refilling the shelves with a pallet of cans of something. Shrink wrapped in…. Yes, plastic.
    
    Feel like suggesting to Watties that they supply all their tins of product loose and it’s up to the retailer to provide the packaging
    
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    June 30, 2023 11:32am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      “It’s such a pain in the arse, I’m likely to try switching supermarkets.”
      
      Good luck – every supermarket in New Zealand is removing those little plastic bags. Tomorrow.
      
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      June 30, 2023 12:13pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        I’m depressed at how much plastic ends up in my bins (yeah I do try to avoid plastic packaging but it becomes pretty impractical because there’s so much of it).
        
        The processes for dealing with plastic waste at the end of the chain are shamefully stupid and ineffective.
        
        It would be better to incinerate it at high temps (and scrubbers etc etc) for energy generation than do what we do with it now.
        
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        June 30, 2023 12:43pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Wellington do some bloody stupid things. Get rid of car parks and make cycle lanes.
  This in a City that has been known to string ropes between poles so people don’t get blown over!
  
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  June 30, 2023 11:24am
  - rouppe
    
    Groan.. That hasn’t been a thing for about 50 years, and I’ve only ever seen one example of it.
    
    Tell you what, it’s been a much more pleasant environment in recent years, even though evenings can sometimes still be cool. But I’d rather that than sweat through a normal day in Auckland
    
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    June 30, 2023 11:38am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I have never seen the ropes but was told of it.
      
      Come to the Shore – much nicer over here.
      
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      June 30, 2023 1:00pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Pimping the poor, again.

Think what you like about the cost of National Super, it’s undoubtedly increased the income of the elderly in the last 70 years.

Maori and Pacifica are cited as doing particularly badly, but as groups Super is in fact a higher proportion of their pre Super income. And what about the communal living and aroha that surrounds them in their declining years? Surely that enriches them?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/132445418/the-plight-of-the-poor-elderly-has-barely-improved-in-70-years
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June 30, 2023 8:03am
- cmm
  
  If you’ve been pulling welfare your whole life then you’re really switching over to another form of welfare.
  
  The term “super” should really be reserved for the nett tax payers who have actually put money into the scheme and are now getting some out.
  
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  June 30, 2023 12:37pm
  - Albert_Ross
    
    Nope. Today’s Super recipients are not getting back what they put in. They’re being paid out of general taxation.
    
    You want a pension that pays out by reference to what you paid in earlier, look to your KiwiSaver.
    
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    June 30, 2023 1:34pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Why try to be world leading when we can just follow the Norwegians? I mean, they’re the good guys, right?

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Norway-Approves-185-Billion-Investment-In-Oil-And-Gas-Projects.html
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June 30, 2023 8:04am
Tony Stuart

Get in the queue to fill your car up early today, and hope the gas station doesn’t run out first. $0.29 a litre is going to hurt a lot of people who are already struggling with the cost of living.
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June 30, 2023 8:04am
- Mike
  
  I’ll be okay thanks, but good luck to you queuing for hours to save $30.
  
  4 25
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  June 30, 2023 8:11am
  - Grumpy Silver Haired Female
    
    Again, emotion over logic. My favourite idiots are those who drive for 30km across Auckland (and back) to save less than the price of a cup of coffee because petrol is 6c per litre cheaper over there. Duh!
    
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    June 30, 2023 9:32am
    - Mike
      
      Yes, I feel sorry for Tony.
      
      3 17
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      June 30, 2023 9:39am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        I’d feel sorry for me too Mike if I ever drove in Auckland, but that is a “privilege” I seldom enjoy.
        
        Mind you, we get traffic jams in Whanganui at peak hours now, with all the Aucklanders who have moved here to escape the rat race. You want to stay away from the main arterial routes between 4.55pm and about 5.08pm 😂
        
        7 1
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        June 30, 2023 11:31am
    - Dougal10
      
      Those idiots help keep your local servo price down!
      
      7 0
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      June 30, 2023 9:57am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Could be worth it if you are retired, have plenty of time and are on a fixed drip feed of income.
    
    2 1
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    June 30, 2023 12:45pm
- CJames
  
  What happened to the government decreed investigation into petrol station pricing? Will that be re-instated tomorrow to counter all the bad publicity as reality bites?
  
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  June 30, 2023 8:13am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Will not be more worse publicity than running out of fuel as stated may happen today as motorists fill up to beat price rise.
    
    This should be front and centre regarding how we could run out of Fuel ?
    
    Inflation, 4-6% is the new “Normal”, Wait till US start refilling Strategic Reserves and $/bbl.
    
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    June 30, 2023 8:20am
  - Blog-aholic
    
    Ha ha, you’re on to it.
    
    8 0
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    June 30, 2023 8:20am
  - Matt Long
    
    Maybe, it was a meaningless political exercise to give the impression they a, care and b, are doing something.
    
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    June 30, 2023 8:27am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    The petrol companies should add another column onto their station price signs, showing the amount of tax you’re paying per litre.
    
    Consider it an educational exercise for the general public.
    
    15 1
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    June 30, 2023 9:58am
    - Bobba Fret
      
      I agree and have said this years ago. They should have price per litre excluding taxes and price per litre including all taxes.
      
      6 0
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      June 30, 2023 11:01am
- Cassandra
  
  You’d have thought that a sensible government would have foregone this set of tax increases. Operative word “sensible”. Inflicting pain on your own voters is not exactly good politics. Labour can’t even get that bit right.
  
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  June 30, 2023 8:18am
  - Drone
    
    But @Cassandra Labour don’t actually care about the voters, they have already checked out and are looking forward to the election after which they can spend another wasted 9 years collecting salary and bitching about homelessness, high food and petrol prices..
    
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    June 30, 2023 9:55am
- Vercingetorix
  
  The silver lining is that it is likely to further erode government support.
  
  36 0
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  June 30, 2023 8:21am
- JerJer
  
  Get a bike. It’s so practical. The greens said so and they are all knowing. Yeah, it’s is the middle of winter but you can wear socks with sandals and keep your feet warm while cycling.
  
  Sad thing is, this discount should have never existed. All that has happened is that the people on the edge would have become reliant on it, and now it’s being taken away.
  
  It’s Labour policy at its best. Hurting those most vulnerable and making them poorer.
  
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  June 30, 2023 8:30am
- Simon
  
  All the producers have to pay the increase. The cost is passed onto the consumers. The shit weight of govt.parasite.nz
  
  Its a food parcel country now for many. Like food rationing during a war.
  
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  June 30, 2023 8:46am
- Ian Boag
  
  And for us truly aged folk. I was in my early teens when Nordy’s (26 June) 1958 Black Budget put the price of petrol up (used to be controlled in those days) from 3/3 (34c) per gallon to 4/3 (44c).
  
  There had been no warning – it was announced at about 8pm and took effect at midnight. Most petrol stations had closed at the time of the announcement. The “after-hours” places were besieged and lots ran dry. Desperate folk with any kind of vessel you could put gas into …
  
  The price of a beer went up by 40-odd% as well.
  
  The finances were in a sad state – export prices had “had a real bashing” with butter at half its normal level and wool and meat also down. It was to prove fatal ….
  
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  June 30, 2023 8:55am
  - Flossie
    
    I remember my father going out and buying an extra 2 or 3 packs of cigarettes ‘cos the budget’s tomorrow and they’ll go up’. Every year.
    
    6 0
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    June 30, 2023 10:48am
- Inandout
  
  TS, Auckland above all areas will feel the increase because they pay 10c extra for something.
  
  5 0
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  June 30, 2023 9:18am
  - Drone
    
    Which @Inandout is why petrol in Auckland is amongst the cheapest in the country (sic).. //
    
    4 0
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    June 30, 2023 9:57am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    10c extra for something is the theory. The reality is that Aucklanders are, under this government, paying 10c extra for NOTHING 🤬
    
    7 0
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    June 30, 2023 11:34am
- Ghost
  
  Wait for the huge hit on grocery’s that is coming. But it’s ok, the government thinks the winter energy payment will help the poorer folks, never mind power has gone up and they will be using it to for that and the increased cost of living already.
  
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  June 30, 2023 9:49am
  - Paulus
    
    With the Energy Payment received we have used no more power but the cost appears to have risen some 20% already.
    
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    June 30, 2023 10:17am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I still have some “I did this” Jaspinda stickers that I may put on the fuel bowsers.
  
  7 1
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  June 30, 2023 11:32am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Yes, I had fun putting those around the country when I was driving to Wellington, particularly on petrol pumps!!
    
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    June 30, 2023 3:20pm
- sirknz
  
  This doesn’t affect me, I only put in $20 whenever I put gas in the car…
  
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  June 30, 2023 12:55pm
  - RightNow
    
    I converted my car to run off $20 bills too. Overall cheaper than petrol
    
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    June 30, 2023 1:28pm
Frank the tank

https://www.breitbart.com/pre-viral/2023/06/29/supreme-court-racial-preferences-unconstitutional-college/

Imagine if the Supreme Court in New Zimbabwe took a similar argument with Maori……
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June 30, 2023 8:08am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Is it just me, or does the hysteria seem overdone?

From what I can see Sir James seems to have pushed his attentions onto young gay men. An overdone sugar daddy? Not good, but he’s no Jimmy Savile, & even seems mild in comparison with Ron Brierley’s actions.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/06/survivors-advocate-says-sir-james-wallace-should-already-be-stripped-of-his-knighthood.html
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June 30, 2023 8:08am
- sirknz
  
  What are the chances that he was a significant donor to Labour?
  
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  June 30, 2023 9:52am
- dubya
  
  I think the attempt to pervert the course of justice was the bigger crime here. IMO Justice Venning did a great job with the trial and sentencing.
  
  Also, the allegation was Wallace stupefied his victims, or at least attempted to.
  
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  June 30, 2023 10:06am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Ah -I missed the stupification bit
    
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    June 30, 2023 1:41pm
  - RdM
    
    “Also, the allegation was Wallace stupefied his victims, or at least attempted to.”
    
    Coming in late to this, but curious.
    What with? Legal upmarket alcohol, the grandeur of his place, charisma, prospects of money?
    
    Drugged, or attempted to … ? With what?
    I haven’t seen that reporting, until your mention of it.
    Can you provide some links for that assertion?
    
    Thanks, and cheers ~
    
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    June 30, 2023 9:05pm
    - Ghost
      
      It’s in the reporting
      
      He claimed the businessman drugged him during his visit, which ended after he claimed the businessman squeezed his bottom saying, “you have such a nice ass” and kissed the back of his neck.
      
      Article
      
      During the trial, one of the men who was indecently assaulted described a “strange”, “uncomfortable” and “creepy” evening at the man’s house.
      
      The man, who has name suppression, said the businessman made him two gin and tonics before telling him he was to stay for dinner.
      
      After a meal and “one to one-and-a-half” glasses of wine, he recalled how Wallace took him on a tour of the house. The pair ended up in the man’s bedroom.
      
      “At this point, I was beginning to feel dizzy; I was beginning to feel nauseous; I felt like I was starting to have less control over my body.”
      
      The man alleges he was drugged.
      
      Article
      
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      June 30, 2023 9:25pm
- Burtland
  
  the dark side of the rainbow community playing out in public
  
  SirJames contributions to NZ Art community have been monumental – that its ended like this will be devastating to this group
  
  9 3
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  June 30, 2023 10:17am
  - Ghost
    
    The criminal actions of this man are his and his alone. No one should be judged on his actions.
    
    8 3
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    June 30, 2023 10:28am
- cmm
  
  Compared the the MP who chases a naked, frightened youngster down the street this is nothing.
  
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  June 30, 2023 12:34pm
Vercingetorix

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300917291/kiri-allan-yelled-and-screamed-at-me-senior-public-servant-says

Kiri Allan “strongly refutes” that she screamed and yelled at public servants.

Straight out of the Jacinda play book. When cornered, “refude” the allegations 😂.

There were witnesses 😳 It looks like this public servant is so pissed off with the denial and gaslighting that he or she has decided to spill the beans.

If she had simply apologised and said she would do better it all would have gone away. Now the flood gates have opened and the deluge is about to do her serious, and perhaps fatal, damage.
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June 30, 2023 8:19am
- JerJer
  
  Good. She is merely an oxygen thief. Seeya Kiri.
  
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  June 30, 2023 8:24am
- Dougal10
  
  She was probably supposed to go while chippy was away, but she came back so he had to launch plan B being his pet Andrea.
  
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  June 30, 2023 8:28am
- Swifty
  
  Did she formally yell and scream or was it informal yelling and screaming?
  
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  June 30, 2023 8:31am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  With FOUR Senior Public Servants spilling the beans she should be GONE.
  
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  June 30, 2023 8:33am
- nathie
  
  “Kiri Allan “strongly refutes” …
  
  Kiri appears to be copying the “Jacinda model” eg appear to be super friendly and informal, smile a lot and now is “refuting”.
  
  (I thought NZ was finally rid of this “refuting” absurdity … but no).
  
  Granted she has better academic qualifications but as an MP I could never warm to her. Despite Labour and the MSM making out she was a “good sort”.
  
  Because right from the beginning of Labour’s first term in 2017 she demanded more tax-payer funding to fly partners to Wellington (hello – aren’t you on salary of $150k , plus many perks including free air travel)?
  
  Then when we had that tsunami warning for the East Coast 2-3 years ago when terrified people headed to high land awaiting news (for hours) whether there would be a tsunami hitting NZ any minute now … MSM informed NZers that Emergency Minister Kiri Allen would be making a statement early afternoon.
  
  Instead of immediately informing people there was no danger she copied the “Jacinda model” (from the podium of truth) and waffled on for ten or so minutes praising people (like they were children) and telling everyone the good job the authorities were doing … before finally advising there was no tsunami threat.
  
  That was a poor (communication) effort but hey she was still praised by the MSM as being outstanding in her role and someone with talent to watch out for.
  
  Never bought it and like her mentor never bought her “imposter” antics either .
  
  But to hear she is a bully and a fake … yes can buy that!
  
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  June 30, 2023 9:05am
  - Vercingetorix
    
    She said this morning that she “never” shouted at public servants. The public servant who spilled the beans claimed he had an office full of witnesses.
    
    I doubt this is going to go away. As always, it is not the offence that gets them it is the lies and cover ups. 🙂
    
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    June 30, 2023 9:31am
    - Bobba Fret
      
      The trouble is they are all anonymous and will not be willing to pop their heads up as it would be too risky.
      
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      June 30, 2023 11:07am
  - Taieri
    
    Granted she has better academic qualifications
    ———–
    
    Better? In what way?
    
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    June 30, 2023 10:37am
  - lifesgood
    
    I never warmed to her either because she talks like she’s from the swamps and seems to be totally full of herself. I can also believe she has a foul temper What about that rant at the TV industry awards…obviously didn’t do her relationship much good.
    
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    June 30, 2023 12:23pm
- Nickc2
  
  Allan is a Lawyer FFS!
  IMO, lying comes naturally to such people and we have to pay for their lies one way or another, whether they be polishing their shiny arses in Parliamentary Offices, or Luxury Offices in a CBD.
  
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  June 30, 2023 9:28am
  - Paulus
    
    Isn’t it easier to get to the two Laws schools by special enrolement on the Maori list.
    There are now many many newer Maori Lawyers seeking jobs most of them young women.
    Doesn’t Kiri have a lifer brother in Pare ?
    
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    June 30, 2023 10:23am
- Vercingetorix
  
  Apologies – I did not see the dedicated post on this subject.
  
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  June 30, 2023 9:51am
- Drone
  
  Hi @Vercingetorix once again the amazingly versatile transitive verb is used by a Labour polly. Miriam Webster defines REFUTE as :
  1 : to prove wrong by argument or evidence : show to be false or erroneous
  2 : to deny the truth or accuracy of
  refuted the allegations
  Maybe this time Kiri will show the evidence rather than simply claim they are inaccurate..
  
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  June 30, 2023 10:04am
  - Matt Long
    
    If you are a good or female socialist politician, the simple act of saying “I refute” is evidentiary proof.
    
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    June 30, 2023 10:17am
I remember when

Auckland Councillors livid at surprise public housing directive. Newsroom.

Labour government, having already removed water, where certain shops can be located, decided what type of vehicle will be used, have decided to remove need for local representation almost entirely.
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June 30, 2023 8:28am
Bridgenag

How to create a deadly pandemic in five easy steps
A copybook for dictators and psycho-philanthropists globally.

https://open.substack.com/pub/metatron/p/how-to-create-a-deadly-pandemic-in?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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June 30, 2023 8:36am
peterwn

So the US Supreme Court has ruled that race based admission policies are unconstitutional (Harvard and University of North Carolina were the ones taken to court). Now Harvard is a private institution whereas UNC is a public institution. One would have thought that in a free nation Harvard would have the freedom to set its own admission policies and not be bossed around by the State. If people do not like Harvard they do not need to go there – there are plenty of other universities.
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June 30, 2023 8:37am
- Dave
  
  Harvard takes federal subsidies. Perhaps it can continue with discrimination if it rejects the federal subsidies, but I’m not a lawyer.
  
  I’ve just now skim read an official letter from Harvard in which the writers claim they will attempt to continue to uphold Harvard values; apparently those values include discriminating against Asian applicants because of their allegedly deficient personal qualities, detectable in their written applications. No negative stereotypes there!
  
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  June 30, 2023 10:23am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Being private would help them on the Constitutional issue, but not with the Civil Rights Act. Harvard discriminating against asian students is the same as a restaurant discriminating against black customers.
  
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  June 30, 2023 11:27am
Matt Long

Avoid vegetable oils if you want to live long and prosper, particularly canola and soy.
https://neurosciencenews.com/soybean-oil-genetics-asd-15505/
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June 30, 2023 8:37am
- farbeyond
  
  I’m currently reading a book with a chapter dedicated to it. In a nutshell, the mix of polyunsaturated fats and carbs is bad.
  
  But let’s keep on topic… bad govt, bad opposition and a burning NZ.
  
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  June 30, 2023 8:59am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  That article is about soy only, not canola and definitely not olive oil.
  
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  June 30, 2023 11:29am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Rice bran oil for us. It does not smoke much at high temperatures.
  
  6 2
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  June 30, 2023 11:43am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Think you’ll find if you fry with it it still causes abundant cancer causing chemicals. Weirdly filthy old butter (or even lard) is the better choice on that front.
    
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    June 30, 2023 3:46pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Is anyone surprised?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/492892/doctors-give-te-whatu-ora-a-fail-mark-for-its-first-year
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June 30, 2023 8:39am
- I remember when
  
  Rob Campbell?
  
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  June 30, 2023 8:47am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Indeed.
    
    Here he is talking up the Health Reforms…and getting a kick into Dr Reti at the same time.
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/national-health-spokesman-dr-shane-reti-is-a-gp-is-that-a-good-person-or-a-general-protagonist/ZD2OMCEYZBGP5CY36SUQ7LBNIA/
    
    Rob Campbell should have listened to the Good GP.
    
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    June 30, 2023 10:07am
  - Burtland
    
    Campbells specialty was marxist unionism until he found a bigger trough
    
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    June 30, 2023 10:35am
- Nickc2
  
  The NZ experience is that if you give a Govt Entity a made-up Maori name, you must be prepared for the consequences of cost blowouts, graft and corruption, and co-governance with all the ills that will bring.
  
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  June 30, 2023 10:19am
  - Piniwi
    
    Right Nick2 it is likely others may not have been aware that these names are apparently metaphorical and do not actually make any sense at all. It will certainly be interesting if this stupidity continues as they mostly start with Te and directory searches might require rest breaks before finding the right on. But and there is a big but things get even worth when you click on a Govt site as you have to wade through a pile of dross before finding any REAL words. All this for about 2% of the native population what actually understand it. It almost compares with the minimal numbers of pregnant women who MIGHT benefit from folic acid being forced into flour. NZ leading the way down hill.
    
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    June 30, 2023 2:02pm
Jack5

Submissions on Maorifying New Zealand’s road signs close today, Red Radio pointed out this morning.

The brief radio peice included a brief interview with someone I think the reporter said was Dave Armstrong, of the Evening Post.

Whoever he was, being from Stuff, he of course supported Maori warnings and Maori warnings above English warnings. Red Radio was biased: no contrary view was offered for balance.

Where you can submit by email is included in the link below to the NZ Transport Agency, aka Waka
Tohi.

Because of the Accident Compensation scheme people won’t be able to sue the Transport Agency over accident injuries and deaths, and we taxpayers would end up paying any way.

Make an email submission – it’s quick and uncomplicated:

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/about-us/consultations/he-tohu-huarahi-maori-bilingual-traffic-signs-consultation/consultation-materials-english/
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June 30, 2023 8:41am
- Mike
  
  Seems like you might have a hypothesis that suggests increased accidents are likely. Care to share details of that and any supporting data?
  
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  June 30, 2023 9:43am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Increased accidents by using a cellphone to translate to English, while driving a vehicle. I thought you could work that out quite easily, Mike.
    
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    June 30, 2023 11:50am
  - rouppe
    
    Well first of all we can refer to the previous statements about distractions while driving.
    
    Then we can safely suggest that any given driver will have to concentrate on the sign for longer in order to
    a) Separate the two statements
    b) Read the one that they identify with
    c) React appropriately
    
    Here’s the tricky part. Put the learnings from the first statement together with the knowledge from the second statement and draw a conclusion that risk is increased.
    
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    June 30, 2023 11:51am
  - Jack5
    
    FFS Mike, create your own posts rather than this trolling tactic of extending a poster’s argument then attacking the extension …
    
    1. I haven’t and don’t suggest that there will be an increase in total number of accidents.
    
    2. If there is an injury or fatal accident which parties think was caused or contributed to by confusion from a cluttered, bilingual sign, then the parties won’t be able to sue the Transport Agency because of the Accident Compensation Act and its system.
    
    You can read the Transport Agency research note on bilingual signs at the link below.
    
    How did the unelected Transport Agency get such power as deciding that a minority language understood by fewer than a tenth of the country should become the dominant road sign language? Could these bureaucrats force us to change from left-side driving to the other side of the road?
    
    In the report note this under item 2.1:
    
    “In many cases, bilingual signage is introduced because the majority language does not represent the local culture, due to a history of colonialism or normalised occupation. In these cases, the implementation of bilingual signage has strong themes of social justice …
    
    The expense of creating signs and familiarising road users on road-sign language is for social justice?
    
    The Transport Agency’s research report:
    
    https://nzta.govt.nz/assets/resources/research/research-notes/005/005-bilingual-traffic-signage.pdf
    
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    June 30, 2023 12:00pm
    - Mike
      
      [Mod – trolling deleted]
      
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      June 30, 2023 1:47pm
    - Tom Hunter
      
      FFS Mike, create your own posts rather than this trolling tactic of extending a poster’s argument then attacking the extension….
      
      That would be more work and not as entertaining as this is for “Mike”. Only way to stop it is to ignore him, even with downticks.
      
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      June 30, 2023 1:49pm
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    I have a hypothesis that the more time people spend reading signs, instead of looking at the road, the more likely they are to have an accident. This might be hard to test, but it seems probable enough that the burden of proof should shift to those who are saying accidents will not increase.
    
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    June 30, 2023 12:03pm
    - Mike
      
      [Mod – trolling deleted]
      
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      June 30, 2023 1:47pm
    - Piniwi
      
      That Nigel as well as what might turn out to be a fatal double take when the the driver thinks wtf did that sign say? Perhaps we get an inkling of why the road speeds are being reduced and has nothing to do with safety, emissions or information. It is to learn native metaphors. Tin A Cocoa.
      
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      June 30, 2023 2:10pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Mike just likes wasting people’s time with these requests. He never replies to requests for evidence to do with his snarky strawman taunts. Don’t waste your time.
    
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    June 30, 2023 12:49pm
    - Tom Hunter
      
      Exactly. It’s taking a long time for the penny to drop with commentators here dealing with him – which of course is just more knee-slapping entertainment for him.
      
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      June 30, 2023 1:51pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    NZTA does not have a brief to teach te reo at 80 kmph
    
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    June 30, 2023 8:35pm
- greybeard
  
  It used to be NZTA.
  Then it became “Waka Kotahi” ( whatever that means ).
  Now it has been renamed “What A Catastrophe”
  
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  June 30, 2023 9:57am
  - Taieri
    
    Then it became “Waka Kotahi” ( whatever that means )
    ———-
    
    It means “all in one canoe”…
    …paddling up the shit creek…
    
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    June 30, 2023 10:39am
- Yabster
  
  quick?- about bloody 30 question that all are very similar- almost like the are discouraging submissions….
  
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  June 30, 2023 10:17am
- Burtland
  
  interviewed by Corin Dann I think – hes become a complete sock puppet
  
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  June 30, 2023 10:41am
Oskar

Today is the last day of the school term – and both grandkids (at different schools) are home today because its a “teacher only day”.
And next week teachers are starting a couple of weeks of paid holiday.
After all the disruptions with strikes etc why cannot the teachers come in during the holidays for planning or professional development or whatever they do on these “teacher only days”.
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June 30, 2023 8:41am
- rouppe
  
  Because… Unions…
  
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  June 30, 2023 11:52am
  - cmm
    
    No, because parents are soft-cocked and not demanding better.
    
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    June 30, 2023 12:28pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Teacher only day off – so they can bugger off early and avoid the rush.
  
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  June 30, 2023 11:56am
Matt Long

Thomas Cramner on the future collapse of Infinate Waters Entities due to risky financing.
The same issues will probably apply to a Responsible Progressive Comprehensive 3 Waters Entity created by a different government.
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/thomas-cranmer-thames-water-on-the-brink-of-collapse-sends-warning-of-three-waters-debt-risk?postId=c9e1c76a-572c-461f-9746-a58f1db0d7ac&cid=db970c6d-6f12-48e2-a04d-5c512f666dee
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June 30, 2023 8:42am
- Mike
  
  Yes, the Thatcherite water ‘reforms’ are a clear warning of the risks inherent in privatizing essential public services. Buy the asset cheap, load it with debt, pay out enormous dividends, then piss off leaving the taxpayer to resurrect the service.
  
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  June 30, 2023 8:49am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Sounds like Kiwirail …..
    
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    June 30, 2023 10:57am
    - Mike
      
      And Air NZ
      
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      June 30, 2023 12:00pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Thatcher could see the immense damage done by the thicko socialists and they could not understand why she did what she did.
    
    I liked the “state owned enterprise” model NZ had just before the great fire sale of the 1980s. Essentail services run like a private corp at arms length from the govt, but ultimately accountable to the NZ taxpayer.
    
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    June 30, 2023 12:54pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  Water privatization in France, in the form of public–private partnerships, goes back to the mid-19th century when cities signed concessions with private water companies for the supply of drinking water. As of 2010, according to the Ministry of Environment 75% of water and 50% of sanitation services in France are provided by the private sector.
  
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  June 30, 2023 1:52pm
  - Mike
    
    I didn’t realize that Tom Hunter was such a fan of French governments. What other ideas should the US adopt from the western European liberal democracies, Tom? Socialized healthcare?
    
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    June 30, 2023 3:19pm
Maggie Pie

Things that make you go hmmm…..

Leaked vid of Chippie taking orders from Klaus at ‘WEF Forum’ in the PRC.
Gets to sit next to the boss on stage… and front row seat at conference.
Lots of comments comparing Klaus’s presentation to that of some old time Nazi.

https://twitter.com/Xx17965797N/status/1674307698123309060
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June 30, 2023 8:44am
- Master Mariner
  
  He’s a right New Champion is our Chippy. Interesting bugger all in the media about this wee charade going on.
  He’s not a Leader but a Follower. Nothing more, Nothing Less.
  
  See link below comment.
  
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  June 30, 2023 9:11am
- nathie
  
  Why is NZ taking orders from a German “globalist” on how to run our country?
  
  We sure as heck didn’t 80-odd years ago – in fact we went out of our way to stop that one!
  
  Anyway post WW2 NZ supported the creation of the UN and to this day continue to work with the UN (for better or worse some will say – I acknowledge that) but my point is, NZ doesn’t need to work with a private individual from Germany (or any country) for that matter.
  
  Please note that National and ACT – protect and prioritise NZ’s sovereignty (and “independence”) please.
  
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  June 30, 2023 9:16am
- ClanMcleod
  
  I wonder did he penetrate Chippy’s cabinet like he did Trudeau’s? 😂
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4cDNyvrP40
  
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  June 30, 2023 11:11am
Jack5

🙃Ahoy, Maggie P:

Regarding your family thoughts on a smart phone for your husband (and I hope he’s doing okay):

A more convincing argument has been put to me by my family: What’s App calls are brilliant, they point out, and beat voice-only calls hands down.

I’m wavering on moving up from a burner. But I’d keep that, too. Small and convenient to carry around.
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June 30, 2023 8:48am
- Jack5
  
  Sorry Maggies!
  
  I meant 🙃Ahoy, Maggie W!
  
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  June 30, 2023 9:34am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Cheers..
    
    I’ve just couriered him over a cheapo Alcatel 3082..
    and trust that he can figure out how to use it.
    
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    June 30, 2023 10:13am
    - Ghost
      
      I hope you put a grumpy selfie on it with the message if you don’t use this phone this is what is waiting for you
      
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      June 30, 2023 10:22am
Maggy Wassilieff

What are the degrees of negligence?

Don’t know, don’t care

Do know, but don’t care.

Do know, still don’t care.

Do know, but feign ignorance.

Do know, blame others.

Do know, feign ignorance again.

When does negligence become a deliberate attempt to mislead?

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2306/S00207/kids-the-real-losers-in-sorry-tinetti-saga.htm
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June 30, 2023 8:49am
- sirknz
  
  Only when National does it, never when Labour does it.
  
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  June 30, 2023 9:56am
- cmm
  
  Why care? Still get paid $350k + lollies either way.
  
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  June 30, 2023 12:13pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Exactly. No incentive to care whatsoever. The only incentive there is to stay in power by hook or by crook, to keep the monero and perks rolling in.
    
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    June 30, 2023 2:55pm
Master Mariner

How is our illustrious New Champion getting on,
4:25 min mark.
https://www.weforum.org/events/annual-meeting-of-the-new-champions-2023/sessions/braving-the-headwinds-rewiring-growth-amid-fragility
Mean while in the Real World,
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/06/27/peak-esg-investing-asset-management-larry-fink/
And,
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Finance/Shareholder-support-for-ESG-proposals-crumbles-at-U.S.-companies2

So with this in mind, Can some one inform Government Agencies, Councils, Reserve Bank, And pretty much every one else how “unelected” Fund
Managers can control Countries. Along with the “Nutters Club” above, By ESG and how it destroys Sovereignty / Wealth.
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June 30, 2023 8:50am
Rusty

Very few people are going to listen to a silly old duffer like Klaus Swabb from the WEF with his broken English and zero personality.

But he is good at recruiting young political leaders around the world like Justin Trudeau and Jacinda Ardern to be spokes people for the WEF.

Chris Hipkins as well?
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June 30, 2023 8:59am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Another creepy groomer of “young things”.
  
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  June 30, 2023 10:15am
Stellaboxer

If this doesn’t scare the shit out of you I don’t know what will. Straight out of the CCP WEF playbook, that’s the same WEF Hipkins is meeting with in Communist China at present.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHHBYXW79wk and here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0F3OVfrQRA
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June 30, 2023 9:06am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Rush Channel, Swamp Loggers.
Just watching a machine that disposes of stumps and slash. Why can’t this be done in NZ? It pulps the wood, then trucked out. Dunno if it is for paper or fuel.
We have all seen the trailerised chippers that the tree removal guys use, but this Swamp Loggers machine is mean!
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June 30, 2023 9:11am
- Ian Boag
  
  Does it work on steep hills?
  
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  June 30, 2023 9:15am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    No. A grapple machine tows the trees to a flat area, another feeds the machine. The first machine has tyres about 5 ft wide – two on each side, 3 axles, so 12 wheels.
    
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    June 30, 2023 12:07pm
- sirknz
  
  $ would be he reason.
  
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  June 30, 2023 9:57am
  - Mike
    
    More lucrative to just sell the easy to log trees and leave the taxpayers and ratepayers to pay more the mess.
    
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    June 30, 2023 10:15am
- Dougal10
  
  We going to need big chipping machines when these untended carbon pine forests reach maturity in 50 years.
  
  6 2
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  June 30, 2023 1:02pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Diesel powered for the grunt needed to grind up those trees. Try that with batteries!
  
  3 1
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  June 30, 2023 2:58pm
Maggie Pie

I found this story heart-rending…..

“The booster jab I received over a year ago
destroyed my health, my body, and my life
completely”

– Kat Pave (Hollywood Actress)

https://www.theflstandard.com/sick-from-the-jab-a-young-actress-chose-to-end-her-own-life/
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June 30, 2023 9:13am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, my wife and I have avoided the boosters like the plague….yes Jacinda promised overseas travel if we took the first two and we believed the cretin. Your health is paramount.
  
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  June 30, 2023 9:43am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Things were very uncertain at the time. AZ seemed reasonably low risk for my demographic so I took it to give myself travel options. I took the recommended 2 shots over 6 mnths and avoided subsequent (mRNA) boosters like the plague.
    
    5 1
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    June 30, 2023 3:03pm
- cmm
  
  “The booster jab I received …”
  
  The booster is exactly the same as the first and second vax, so it is silly to try blame things on the booster and not on the first and second jab.
  
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  June 30, 2023 10:26am
  - mawm
    
    Except for certain conditions, like acceleration of coronary artery atheroma, the effects are cumulative.
    
    3 0
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    June 30, 2023 7:39pm
- farbeyond
  
  A colleague at work told me yesterday got the third booster. Feeling like crap the whole day, took sick leave. All because didn’t want to “catch covid”… go figure. I asked and apparently the fourth one is out of question… again, go figure.
  
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  June 30, 2023 11:35am
  - cmm
    
    ” I asked and apparently the fourth one is out of question”
    
    But how many people say they’ll never go drinking again after last night’s hangover.
    
    Peer pressure is a terrible thing, whether it is pressure to get pissed or pressure to get vaxxed so that granny doesn’t die.
    
    13 1
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    June 30, 2023 12:10pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I don’t get hangovers.
      
      4 2
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      June 30, 2023 12:15pm
Stellaboxer

I think we need to demand that politicians declare any collusion they have had with the WEF in the same way they should declare conflicts of interest in financial matters as it is now apparent that the WEF and democracy are incompatible and that the organisation is hostile to the principles of western liberal democracy. We need both ACT and National to make this law at the first opportunity after taking power in October or we will end up like Britain with nothing more than a sham illusion of parliamentary democracy. Just look at the young leader list that is openly available on the WEF website Ardern, Macron and Trudeau being the standout villains but many other eye brow raisers.
https://plebeianresistance.substack.com/p/all-the-young-global-leaders-from?s=r
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June 30, 2023 9:18am
- sirknz
  
  How do we know that Act and National aren’t already tied up with the WEF?
  
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  June 30, 2023 9:58am
  - Mike
    
    What I wonder is what will be the next bogeyman group to frighten the witless. WEF is the current allegedly sinister force, following on from the Jews (still a favorite, of course), Freemasons, Illuminati, Rosicrucians, Bilderberg Group, Trilateral Commission, NWO, etc, etc.
    
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    June 30, 2023 10:22am
    - mandk
      
      “You will own nothing and be happy” tells us all we need to know about the malign philosophy of the WEF.
      
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      June 30, 2023 10:38am
    - Stellaboxer
      
      Oh Mike you’ve missed one tiny detail. The Jews never published their intent to take over the world or subvert the international financial system and the publications that did were all proved to be fakes. As far as I know they never held international conventions to discuss their plans for the world either. The WEF on the other hand do all of those things.
      
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      June 30, 2023 10:46am
      - Taieri
        
        The Jews never published their intent to take over the world or subvert the international financial system and the publications that did were all proved to be fakes.
        ———–
        
        Some say that they did. In the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Quite an entertaining publication by the way.
        
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        June 30, 2023 11:18am
      - Mike
        
        Taieri
        Sounds like Stellaboxer has confirmed that the Jews are okay, but all those other were in fact sinister conspiracies.
        Full explanatory diagram here:
        https://twitter.com/michaelbierut/status/1036637555175899137/photo/1
        
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        June 30, 2023 12:14pm
    - Stellaboxer
      
      OH and by the way Mike don’t smear me as witless. I refrain from personally insulting you so I expect the same in return.
      
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      June 30, 2023 10:51am
      - Dougal10
        
        He just did it again.
        
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        June 30, 2023 1:05pm
      - kowtow
        
        Why waste your time engaging.
        
        Just ignore .
        
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        June 30, 2023 2:09pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Quite a few lefties are on board with “The Jooos” being behind all things evil. There is a very bizarre high level of virulent antisemitism on the internet. I’m wondering if a lot of it is being pushed by a certain “axis of evil” country.
      
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      June 30, 2023 3:53pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.
“Once again, you could have heard a pin drop when Julian was talking about the Treaty. I wonder why?”
I know why. The public are learning the truth – and the lies we have been told since 1975 with the corrupt Waitangi Tribunal.
Where has all the money gone?

https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/full-house-in-wanaka/
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June 30, 2023 9:25am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Where has all the money gone indeed?
  
  A question that forever has and will continue to go unanswered….
  
  Maybe the tribal oligarchs have the answers?
  
  But then, who in the media will ask?
  
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  June 30, 2023 9:54am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Have a wander around in that website/blog.
    Find out about the real treaty and why it was changed from 1975 on.
    Find out why modern Maori want Julian Batchelor silenced.
    Find out who is really spreading racism.
    Daily blogs right back to August last year.
    Read the online book.
    
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    June 30, 2023 12:24pm
I remember when

Something was messing with Earth’s Axis. The Answer has to do with us. NY Times.
Accelerating melting of polar ice sheets and mountain glaciers have changed the way mass is distributed around the planet enough to influence its spin.
Now, some scientists have identified another factor: colossal quantities of water pumped out of the ground for crops and households.
The strong link between ground extraction and drifting of Earth’s axis, was a “big surprise,” said Dr Seo, a geophysicist at Seoul National University.
Between 1060 and 2000, worldwide groundwater depletion more than doubled, to about 75 trillion gallons a year, scientists estimate.

Is the need for University staff to publish papers, to enhance the University’s global ranking, affecting our health?
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June 30, 2023 9:32am
- Inandout
  
  Irw, this Morgan discussion with Stop Oil people is a classic. The woman in the park can only be described as a climate bitch, sour to the point of insanity. Boycott, bless him, is a breath of fresh air.
  
  https://www.skynews.com.au/opinion/piers-morgan/im-going-to-cut-you-off-piers-morgans-heated-clash-with-eco-warrior/video/927e8d4d45b23cf74ce8fa3965803593
  
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  June 30, 2023 9:48am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Classic nutbar LOL!
    
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    June 30, 2023 12:31pm
- kowtow
  
  Actually the article makes it very clear the main cause is molten rock , but oh no let’s keep the fear mongering headlines going .
  
  Humans , humans , humans .
  
  Oh and if water ‘s the problem can we give the bill to the local maor’s who the regime and supreme court claim have a “special interest”.
  
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  June 30, 2023 11:18am
Ghost

A good interview with Robert Kennedy jr on his vaccine stand

Expanding on his vaccine stance, RFK Jr. says the FDA can’t be trusted when it gives regulatory approval
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June 30, 2023 9:59am
- Inandout
  
  Ghost, he seems a genuine old style Democrat but in all honesty his voice is a tad difficult to listen to. I struggled through the Maher interview so I could learn of Robert’s views on the death of his father; most interesting.
  
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  June 30, 2023 10:17am
  - Ghost
    
    It’s his uncle and father’s deaths that interest me to. Agree it takes a whole to get used to his voice
    
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    June 30, 2023 10:27am
  - jonno1
    
    He suffers from spasmodic dysphonia. That considered, he speaks remarkably well.
    
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    June 30, 2023 2:35pm
- Mike
  
  It says something for the present unity of the Democrats that the closest challenger to Biden is a flat-out crank.
  
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  June 30, 2023 10:25am
  - Ghost
    
    Didn’t know you were running against biden
    
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    June 30, 2023 11:10am
    - Mike
      
      The obvious deficiencies in the aged and incapable leaders of the two parties have not yet opened the door for actual capable contenders, and probably won’t. Republicans are too afraid of Trump’s taunts, while no electable Democrats are likely to challenge Biden.
      
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      June 30, 2023 12:20pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Trump is capable but seemingly has a tough time speaking in a professional and non-silly manner. DeSantis is also highly capable and has good impulse control with his words.
        
        The dems are demonstrably rotten to the core. It appears a certain disgruntled older female may be the root cause of it all.
        
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        June 30, 2023 3:11pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    RFK Jr is the most sensible politician with a profile in the US by a very large margin. Biden is a dementia addled, senile liar and his family are corrupt to the core.
    
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    June 30, 2023 11:26am
    - Ghost
      
      Clan it is easier to make childish remarks than listen to Robert and debate what he says
      
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      June 30, 2023 12:20pm
      - Mike
        
        [Mod – trolling deleted]
        
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        June 30, 2023 12:21pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        @Ghost – exactly. I watched a youtube show called ‘Conversation with the candidate’. Kennedy clearly had no notes, no teleprompter. He answered difficult questions from the audience.
        He did so with clear answers, explaining his reasons for the positions he has taken.
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTgpBdP8NxA&pp=ygUgY29udmVyc2F0aW9uIHdpdGggdGhlIGNhbmRpZGF0ZSA%3D
        
        He advocates for free speech and the ability to disagree on topics, but still be able to discuss them and work together for better outcomes for all.
        I found it a pleasure to listen to him compared to most politicians.
        
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        June 30, 2023 3:36pm
      - mawm
        
        Clan – it’s late so at some stage on GD I will repeat this.
        I like him but on listening to some things he has said it’s obvious that he’s coat-tailing his uncle Jack. He has a great spiel on having followed the science on vaccines, etc but when asked about anthropogenic global warning his answer was that a person he trusts told him it was so and on that he abuses people that question the “science”.
        
        Somehow he’s coming across as uncle Ted but pretending he’s uncle Jack. Just listen very carefully to him.
        
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        June 30, 2023 7:48pm
mandk

@ I remember when

Is there “Accelerating melting of polar ice sheets”?

We keep hearing claims like this from people like Al Gore, but I have also heard that the extent of ice cover at both poles is actually increasing.
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June 30, 2023 10:02am
- Mike
  
  I have heard lots of things.
  
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  June 30, 2023 10:26am
  - mandk
    
    You are cementing your reputation with that comment, Mike.
    
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    June 30, 2023 10:31am
    - kowtow
      
      He craves attention , just ignore.
      
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      June 30, 2023 12:18pm
  - Yabster
    
    voices in your head don’t count…
    
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    June 30, 2023 12:15pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Nothing-burger comment. 💩
    
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    June 30, 2023 3:16pm
sirknz

Let’s swap the genders on this one:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crime/whangarei-woman-sets-fire-to-carpet-after-catching-boyfriend-in-bed-with-best-friend/SECSSPLARBDHPMFBRJBLVMGY4A/

Woman sets fire to ex-partner’s floor, beats him and new lady with a crow bar, all this after breaking the terms of a protection order and breaking in to his house. End result: 250 hours of community service.

At this rate, we will never end gender discrimination.
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June 30, 2023 10:03am
- mandk
  
  Same old, same old.
  
  When a woman violently assaults a man, she is upset or frustrated.
  
  But when a man violently assaults a woman, he is a monster.
  
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  June 30, 2023 10:07am
  - kowtow
    
    Unless it’s a tranny man , then it’s “resistance”.
    
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    June 30, 2023 12:20pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Yep I’ve known of quite a few cases of rejected women going crazy-violent for revenge. How dare someone chose to not be with me any more!
  
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  June 30, 2023 3:18pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Choose
    
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    June 30, 2023 4:06pm
Maggie Pie

“When life gives you lemons….suck ’em.”

– The Simpsons (1989)

https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1674499924807806977

Gag 🙁
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June 30, 2023 10:10am
- Matt Long
  
  Interesting just below that Newsom going cra CRA on the Supreme Court ruling no racial bias in University Admissions.
  https://twitter.com/GavinNewsom/status/1674456431863676929?s=20
  
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  June 30, 2023 10:30am
I remember when

The US Supreme Court, in a 7-2 ruling, upheld a law aimed at keeping Native American adoptees with their tribes, a victory for tribal sovereignity.
At issue, wa whether a 1978 Native American adoption law was constitutional.
Tribes argued tha the bill allowed them to govern themselves.
The ruling did not resolve the question of whether the law, the Indian Child Welfare Act, discriminated against non-Native families based on race.
ICWA is based on the idea: When Indian children can stay with their families and communities, Tribes and children alike are better off.

At the time the Act was passed, it was intend to stop rampant removal of Native Americans children from their families.
Such laws take the Utopian view that the legislation is the correct and only way forward.
What is the position when there is a relationship/marriage between a Native and white/African American/Asian.
If the relationship ends, what rights do the non-Native parents, grandparents, extended family have.
To what extent is it ideal for Native Americans to live and govern themselves in isolation and does the need last forever.

Is this a template for all indigenous communities?
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June 30, 2023 10:12am
- Mike
  
  The decision is grounded in the federal nature of the US, where the individual states have only limited powers to deal with the Native American tribes who have direct treaty relationships with the federal government. when individual states have infringed on that relationship – stealing children, etc – bad things have happened.
  Questions of what happens in individual circumstances are similar to the questions that arise for children of parents from separate countries where courts may take very different views of the relevant international conventions.
  
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  June 30, 2023 10:33am
  - cmm
    
    “stealing children”
    
    C’mon, isn’t that over-egging the pudding?
    
    Taking a child away from a dangerous/abusive situation and placing them in a safer environment is hardly “stealing”, except in the most ridiculous distortion of the word.
    
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    June 30, 2023 11:15am
    - Mike
      
      You don’t think aboriginal children from many nations were ever forcibly removed? Or do you think forcible removal of a child has always been for the child’s best interests? Or something else?
      
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      June 30, 2023 12:24pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        The general reason was prevention of child abuse/deprivation or the parent/s giving the children up for a perceived better life. The modern deranged left of course would have us believe the intent was all evil and nasty. There’s a whole industry around that.
        
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        June 30, 2023 3:27pm
Maggy Wassilieff

At least 26% of Maori have not completed their Census forms

https://waateanews.com/2023/06/29/maori-census-returns-up-to-74-percent/

(How that figure of 74 was determined is a puzzle, doncha think?)
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June 30, 2023 10:52am
- mandk
  
  Agreed.
  
  Is StatsNZ know that 74% of Māori have completed the Census, it brings into question the need for a Census in the first place.
  
  There are issues (e.g. the extent of moldy housing) that the Census sheds light on, but the extent of any problems could probably be identified using, or enhancing, existing surveys. This would be a lot cheaper than the $400 million or so this year’s Census will end up costing.
  
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  June 30, 2023 11:15am
- Littletramp
  
  It’s quite simple why they believe only 74% of maori have completed census forms – there are less maori.
  Each year/generation/reporting period, there are less maori than the previous measured period due to progressively declining numbers due to death, blood dilution & emigration.
  There are no new maori being added, or as Monty Python would say, this parrot is f### dead.
  Wearing a tiki, saying morena, living in aotearoa and scribbling on your face does not make you a maori.
  An unpopular fact that does not suit the narrative so is never addressed.
  
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  June 30, 2023 12:03pm
- Ruahine
  
  It is to jerrymander the number of Maori seats next election in Labours favour.
  
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  June 30, 2023 6:21pm
Maggie Pie

“Jewish Nazi” (HUH??)

We’ve already ordered a copy of Avi’s book….here’s the link if you want.

https://twitter.com/OzraeliAvi/status/1674247794750812162
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June 30, 2023 11:04am
- cmm
  
  Not as weird as it sounds.
  
  One of the most pro-Nazi people I have ever met was a German Jew. He and his family fled Germany to Switzerland after they got a tip off they were on the list to be visited the next day (having enough money for bribing officials worked in their favour). He was about 8 or so at the time.
  
  He said that the Nazis were the best thing that ever happened to Germany. They fixed so many problems and got the country running again. He said that their family fully supported all aspects of Naziism except, of course, the bit about getting rid of the Jews. He said that if the Nazis had worked with the Jews they’d have achieved a lot together and would have had huge support from the Jews. He said many Jewish families and businesses, including his, did a lot of business with the Nazis, but had to keep it out of the public eye because of the anti-Jewish policies. I suppose it is like many government/business interactions: what goes on behind closed doors is a bit different to public perception.
  
  Now I have no personal comment on this. I wasn’t there. I was not a Jew in those circumstances, and it was all years before I was born. All I can do is relate what I was told, by a German Jew who was actually there.
  
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  June 30, 2023 11:29am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Loved the Sun Tzu meme in the replies!
  
  “When confronted with public debate, call your opponent a conspiracy theorist and cry like a bitch.”
  
  I’ve had three years putting up with that crap, though it’s funny seeing them spluttering trying to come up with a response to facts and truth!
  
  😂😂😂😂😂
  
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  June 30, 2023 11:45am
In Vino Veritas

On a more chilling note, Nigel Farage (after winning Broadcaster of the year award no less) has received notice from his bank that they are closing his personal and business accounts. He has gone around 7 other major banks in the UK, none of whom will take him on as a customer. After not receiving an explanation from the bank, he was going to name them on his TV show last night, but 15 minutes before airtime, the bank called and said the decision was commercial and not political, and that they would open a personal account for him in a minor subsidiary bank, but not a business account. Farage has refused, and is taking time off to decide his next steps, which may include having to move out of the UK as he will no longer be able to pay his debts, receipt income, have a bank linked debit or credit car or borrow money. It now appears that this isn’t the first time banks in the UK have closed peoples accounts because of political views. Be afraid people, what you post on Facebook, Twitter or any other social media where you might ID yourself can, and will be used against you.
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June 30, 2023 11:14am
- Mike
  
  There is a widespread problem in NZ too of embattled unfortunates who cannot open bank accounts. Perhaps Farage can find a charity like the salvation army to manage his money for him.
  
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  June 30, 2023 12:28pm
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Hmm. I used to be surprised at your stupidity Mike. But that disappeared a long time a go.
    
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    July 1, 2023 12:05pm
- Dougal10
  
  I went to a bank meeting recently and got the feeling that it will happen here. Most bank loan money comes from the likes of blackrock etc and they are pushing for lending to be adjusted to people who fit their ideals
  
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  June 30, 2023 1:14pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    That’s what ESGs are all about. Larry Fink telling it like it is, how they are going to force behaviour change.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwwN5kwjAtQ
    
    Clearly not totalitarianism or anything……//
    
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    June 30, 2023 3:41pm
  - Chris Nisbet
    
    It might just about be time for a new type of bank to emerge – one that isn’t associated with this ESG business – one more focussed on financial returns.
    All right-thinking people should support them.
    I’d be interested to learn of any NZ bank that isn’t infested with ESG nonsense.
    
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    June 30, 2023 5:12pm
thirteenstars

Everyone here will know of Nigel Farage, former member of European Parliament, leader of the UK Independence Party, staunch promoter of Brexit, lately the host of a top-rated nightly show on GB News, and recently awarded broadcaster of the year.

He’s been “debanked”, meaning his bank of over 40 years has closed his accounts giving no reasons, and he has been unable to open an account with every other bank he’s contacted.

He explains:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0F3OVfrQRA

Don’t tell me there isn’t a conspiracy to cancel him. Careful, Citizen, don’t say the wrong thing because if they can come after Farage the can sure as hell come after you.
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June 30, 2023 11:15am
- lifesgood
  
  This is appalling. Unbelievable, really. Who made banks the judge and jury?
  
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  June 30, 2023 12:12pm
  - Mike
    
    It should be compulsory for banks to accept any customer who chooses them. It’s outrageous that a private business can choose its customers.
    
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    June 30, 2023 12:30pm
    - Yabster
      
      Mike your trolling is truly pathetic- i actually feel sorry for you- what kind of person continues to do what you do? Your saying banks shld be able deny a customer based on their ideals- should that extend to say supermarkets also- you would be in favour of that n doubt- truly a pathetic lil man.
      
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      June 30, 2023 1:46pm
    - thirteenstars
      
      I’ll see your snide and raise you a serious: it’s nice to see you’re siding with private property rights and freedom of association, which means you must also support the right of businesses to hire on the basis of race and sex, and to refuse service to customers for any reason they choose.
      
      Discrimination is such a dirty word. Time to call it what it is: freedom to choose.
      
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      June 30, 2023 2:04pm
      - Mike
        
        We have broad agreement in NZ on prohibited grounds of discrimination, which reflects a balance between competing interests:
        1. The right of private individuals and companies to choose whom they employ, serve or do business with.
        2. The right of people to be free from the ill-effects of prejudice based on sex, marital status, belief, ethnicity, disability, illness, age, political opinion, employment status, or family status.
        I don’t know what the law is in the UK, although the government there wants to withdraw from human rights agreement, so perhaps it will be okay to persecute poor Farage on the basis of his political opinions.
        
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        June 30, 2023 4:26pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Yes hilarious Mike until the tables are turned and annoying lefties are cast into outer darkness by the system.
      
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      June 30, 2023 3:59pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    lifesgood – here’s Larry Fink, one of the self appointed masters of the universe explaining how it works.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwwN5kwjAtQ
    
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    June 30, 2023 3:42pm
Maggie Pie

I’m sure there must be grater legal minds than mine out there…
what do you make of this?

‘Nga-Koti-o-Aotearoa’

https://courtsofnz.govt.nz/cases/mercury-nz-limited-v-maori-land-court-citation
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June 30, 2023 11:38am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Three Waters, Te Mana o Te Wai will fix that little hiccup.
  
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  June 30, 2023 11:47am
I remember when

Ikaroa-Rawhiti electorate has become a battle of the provinces Poverty Bay/Tairawhiti versus Hawke’s Bay.
A tribal battle between Ngati Porou whanau versus Kahungunu.
The Labour Party versus Te Pati Maori.

Who has read the signs correctly?
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June 30, 2023 11:56am
kowtow

How “hard” working and busy can a minister be if they can take 20 minutes out to bollock a public servant .

And by the same token they all seem to have endless time to be able to stand behind each other at meet the press’s and nod blankly like those windscreen dogs .
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June 30, 2023 12:33pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

A sign that Joe is on the way out?

https://valiantnews.com/2023/06/biden-80-now-sleeps-with-cpap-breathing-machine/
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June 30, 2023 1:16pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Another sign that he’s on the way out it that he’s 80 years old.
  
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  June 30, 2023 4:48pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING…

20yo wannabe French activist chosen to run for Maori Party in Hauraki/Waikato
😀 😀 😀

https://twitter.com/Maori_Party/status/1674202358195306496
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June 30, 2023 1:23pm
- kowtow
  
  That feed takes us to news that Wellington council has voted to sister city with Ramallah !
  
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  June 30, 2023 1:41pm
I remember when

How does ‘sustained an erroneous judgement’ and displayed a ‘high degree of negligence’ become –

Tinetti showed degree of negligence:report.
Manawatu Standard.
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June 30, 2023 1:33pm
lifesgood

I’ve just been to the supermarket. The man ahead of me was getting the jump on the anti plastic laws coming in tomorrow by putting about a kilo each of potatoes, onions, oranges and bananas onto the checkout belt individually. I waited patiently as they were weighed, some rolling off the operators scales and her having to weigh them in lots. I felt sorry for the checkout operator but I suspect this will become the norm.
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June 30, 2023 1:39pm
- Mike
  
  Some people are too poor to buy a stock of plastic bags, too weak-minded to adjust to changes, or too fond of making others’ jobs miserable. I haven’t seen anyone complaining at the supermarket yet, but I’m sure there will be a few of that ilk around today and tomorrow as well.
  
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  June 30, 2023 1:56pm
  - Blog-aholic
    
    Doesn’t buying plastic bags defeat the purpose of the ‘ban’?
    
    Putting aside the obvious that in buying them you provide additional income to the supermarkets that previously supplied them free…
    
    Just saying.
    
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    June 30, 2023 2:32pm
    - Mike
      
      You can still buy your own stock of plastic bags. For example:
      https://www.thewarehouse.co.nz/p/max-choice-kitchen-tidy-bags-with-handles-40-pack-27l/R2867920.html?&&&&gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=Cj0KCQjw1_SkBhDwARIsANbGpFuxcfoSmzrguVzblMLKgIPZy7RjF1T-eXdYXWhN9YIkdn9hELKXCxYaApybEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
      
      4 8
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      June 30, 2023 4:28pm
Ghost

Damn, I wonder if some of these people realise that they are breaking the law by storing this petrol at home and by so if they have a fire the insurance company can deny them a pay out

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/huge-fuel-queues-in-west-auckland-stockpiling-and-panic-buying-before-petrol-tax-reinstated/SMUWE2CJWFGVHMRI4PPZM5NZQA/
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June 30, 2023 1:51pm
- Mike
  
  Very small risk, but not one worth taking for a few bucks. Then again, plenty of people don’t buy insurance at all.
  
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  June 30, 2023 1:58pm
  - Vercingetorix
    
    I’d say it is a non trivial risk. Those containers he is using are rated for water, not for petrol.
    
    Storing 100 litres of petrol in water cans in your garage is insane.
    
    8 0
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    June 30, 2023 5:36pm
Ghost

Prime minister stand up is interesting, media attacking him, asking him why he is not answering the questions

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/pm-chris-hipkins-wishes-he-could-stay-in-china-longer-as-new-zealand-trade-trip-draws-to-a-close/M73WXNL7ZJDEJE3VYTWFCZQ2YY/
9 1
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June 30, 2023 2:04pm
Maggie Pie

New Zealand has just celebrated…. ‘Schools-Pride-Week-Aotearoa’

https://twitter.com/wcl_library/status/1667341811432423429

Meanwhile, school kids in Russia…..

https://twitter.com/UltraDane/status/1674589206319083520
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June 30, 2023 2:29pm
- graham
  
  Correction. A small number of individuals might have celebrated ‘Schools-Pride-Week-Aotearoa’, along with some companies and groups who are fearful of being accused of ‘homophobia’ or some other such nonsense if they don’t follow the herd.
  
  New Zealand and the vast majority of New Zealanders have not celebrated any such thing. Most of us have ignored it completely.
  
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  June 30, 2023 3:33pm
Blog-aholic

I am amazed that the buying up of pretroleum is so ‘in’ with the amount of talk.

To be clear, if your tank is 50litres you will save yourself about $15.00.
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June 30, 2023 2:34pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Funny how this works.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/trump-jumps-in-the-presidential-polls-after-indictment/ss-AA1dcDGT

I said yesterday, only one thing can stop Trump winning in 2024, and that is assassination.
MAGA.
5 2
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June 30, 2023 3:08pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  Be careful what you wish for.
  
  3 2
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  June 30, 2023 4:10pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Meaning I should wish for Joe, or De Santis?
    You have seen what Trump did. You have also seen why the swamp wants him out. The corruption is decades old!
    Tell me if you disagree with this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S63MW41dP58
    
    3 2
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    June 30, 2023 4:18pm
    - Mike
      
      While Trump has been corrupt in seven decades already, Steve, corruption has a much longer story than just his personal crimes.
      
      1 8
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      June 30, 2023 4:36pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Embarrassing.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/hipkins-in-china-swimming-in-the-deep-end/ar-AA1de2Hb
5 2
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June 30, 2023 3:16pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

No bull. No conviction. Who pays the Court costs??
Anna de Roo: Cases like this showed why a commissioner for animals was “urgently needed”, in her view.
Rubbish! Another commissioner is another seat warmer. These guys were 18 and 22. They knew exactly what they were doing – being arseholes.
People in this Country want the voting age reduced to 16 for fuck’s sake!

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/492933/couple-upset-offenders-who-fired-arrows-into-bull-go-unpunished
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June 30, 2023 4:14pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

OK, before you all go for your craft beer shandy and run for the train/bike.
FB.

Why don’t vegetarians moan during sex?
They don’t wanna admit that a piece of meat makes them happy.

My comment:

I did not know vegetarians had sex.
Have you ever seen a vegetarian baby?
Seriously, have you?

Something for you Wellingtonians to think about until Monday.
9am sharp, don’t be late!
6 2
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June 30, 2023 4:40pm
DeepBlue

Co-governance is so last year. Blenheim library and service centre:

“Meihana told a crowd of about 100 people the naming of places needed “serious consideration”, and Te Kahu o Waipuna could be understood as part of a wider movement of “indigenising public spaces”.” Stuff
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June 30, 2023 5:18pm
Surely Knott

From Te Whatu Ora

((My comments in brackets- Are these NZ ‘s detransitioners? People who said they want gender genital surgery seem to be cancelling in large numbers. ))

“Updates from the Gender affirming (genital) surgery service – Monthly update on current referrals and the waiting list. April 2023”

“As at 30 April 2023, there were 416 referrals on the active wait list for a first specialist assessment. 74 out of the 416 referrals have had their first specialist assessment.”

“The Service is reviewing the current tranche of patients who were referred between October 2018 and May 2019 before a first specialist assessment (FSA) can be offered. The service has updated its process as now patients must have their General Practitioner (GP) complete the updated health and wellbeing questionnaire form to enable the service to have an accurate account of their current health status before a First Specialist Appointment (FSA) can be offered.”

** (( So the gender surgery unit is only now requiring GP’s to give health and wellbeing background info?! ))

“The Service sent updated health requests to 29 of the 50 patients within this tranche with 14 patients in total responding and providing health updates from their GPs. Two of the 14 patients responded by asking to be removed from the waitlist and 15 patients have not responded to our initial contact. The Service will continue to provide updates each month on any changes or progress made.”

((So 17 of the 29 patients asked to be removed from the surgery list or didn’t respond?! And why did they only send the letter to 29 of the 50?))

“It is important that you contact us immediately if you decide you no longer want to be considered for an FSA/no longer want surgery, or if your email, home address, phone number or GP has changed. Email us at gender.surgery@health.govt.nz to let us know about any changes.

((The UK and USA are facing detransition law suits. So are they saying people on the list might change their mind?!! ))

“”So far two surgeries have been performed in 2023, and an additional two surgeries were cancelled due to patient’s personal circumstances preventing surgery being undertaken. Several other additional patients declined surgery dates that had been scheduled, due to their personal circumstances. Two further surgeries are scheduled for June 2023. ”

((Most patients cancelled or declined surgery dates that were scheduled?!?!))

The number of people referred to the waitlist increased by over 160 percent between October 2018 and 30 September 2020.

https://www.tewhatuora.govt.nz/our-health-system/preventative-healthwellness/providing-health-services-for-transgender-people/updates-from-the-gender-affirming-genital-surgery-service/
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June 30, 2023 5:25pm
Sparrow

Northland resident. 1. A bit of wind=No power 2. A bit of rain= No road. Result 1+2=3rd World.
8 1
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June 30, 2023 7:42pm
- Ghost
  
  Third would see your problems and wonder why your complaining over such a minor convenience to what they have
  
  4 3
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  June 30, 2023 7:56pm
  - Sparrow
    
    I have worked for many years in 3rd World countries and fully understand their problems I can assure you of that, but we claim to be a 1st world country. I can assure you the main roads yes built with aid money were superior to our main roads up here and less power outtages in the capitals.
    
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    June 30, 2023 9:14pm
    - Ghost
      
      Tell us how many power cuts did Bangladesh have last year compared to your couple of times?
      
      First world moaning about a few power cuts. We don’t even come close to comparing to third world countries, just first world people trying to pretend we do to look special.
      
      I’m reminded of an Argentine friend who constantly says, New Zealanders don’t know how well they have, she cannot understand why people constantly bitch about how bad they have it here.
      
      0 1
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      June 30, 2023 9:39pm

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