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June 25, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 25 June 2023

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General Debate

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Mike

Happy World Vitiligo Day!
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June 25, 2023 8:02am
- Lee C
  
  As usual, only a patchy response Mike.
  
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  June 25, 2023 10:47am
- Flossie
  
  Not a nice thing to suffer, as I know personally.
  
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  June 25, 2023 11:32am
  - kowtow
    
    I don’t understand how people encourage him here with responses.
    
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    June 25, 2023 1:36pm
    - septic skeptic
      
      It helps avoid an echo chamber
      
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      June 25, 2023 2:50pm
krazykiwi

More evidence of harm

More than 500 additional deaths a week involving heart diseases have been recorded in England since the COVID-19 pandemic began, the British Heart Foundation (BHF) has said.

The BHF then casts around aimlessly considering possible causes, while finding time to praise the vaccines.
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June 25, 2023 8:03am
- ClanMcleod
  
  The silence in NZ regarding excess all cause mortality is astonishing. Most other countries have at least started having a conversation about this concerning trend.
  
  Not that it is needed, but this graph out of Japan showing the correlation between weekly excess deaths and the booster rollout doesn’t need commentary. The graph speaks volumes.
  
  https://metatron.substack.com/p/japan-weekly-excess-deaths-vs-covid
  
  Of course correlation is not causation. //
  
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  June 25, 2023 8:56am
  - Opie
    
    Holy shit. Show that to anyone that ever challenged your thinking. I will be.
    
    Only problem is a lot of people that were pro vax probably can’t understand a simple graph…
    
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    June 25, 2023 9:17am
  - sirknz
    
    But the totally competent, definitely not a government propaganda arm, investigative part of $tuff ‘newsable’ did an investigation and could find no evidence of the ‘vaccine’ causing this, ergo it is the population getting older and totally not the mRNA global science experiment at all you terrible conspiracy theorist scallywags!
    
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    June 25, 2023 9:33am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      sirknz – there is a simple solution to this. There are tests now available to indicate clearly if the vaccine is a contributory factor to unexpected death.
      
      This should be automatic each and every time such a death occurs. In fact, for any death.
      Within a relatively short period of time we would have conclusive data, one way or the other, whether the vaccines were contributing to this alarming increase in all cause mortality.
      
      Surely the staunch advocates and supporters of the whole vaccination programme should be leading the charge demanding this happens? This would vindicate their position and shut down all those damn conspiracy theorists once and for all?
      
      You need to ask yourself, why isn’t this being done? There is only one answer, they are terrified of what the results will show. As they should be.
      
      To qualify, I would be ecstatic to find out there is a simple injection available to stop me catching ANY respiratory illness, I dislike them immensely. But all the information available to date has done is cause me alarm. Not just for this vaccine, but for all of the others I have had in my life.
      
      This distrust in formerly trustworthy institutions is becoming commonplace and is not good for any of us. It needs to be restored and that will only happen with a full, transparent, honest investigation. Not the whitewash Royal Commission that has been put forward by the government.
      The terms of reference are farcical.
      
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      June 25, 2023 10:50am
      - JimBobJoe
        
        What are these tests you mention Clan?
        
        re this: “There are tests now available to indicate clearly if the vaccine is a contributory factor to unexpected death.”
        
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        June 25, 2023 11:30am
      - krazykiwi
        
        JBJ, the most simple would be a Troponin level blood test before, and after a mRNA jab. Given what was has long been known about mRNA technology this should have been a prerequisite safety study before Emergency Use Authorisation was granted. But it wasn’t.
        
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        June 25, 2023 12:47pm
      - mawm
        
        JimBob – Initially they looked at antibodies to spike (vax) v antibodies to spike and nucleocapsid (infection). The technology exists that uses coloured dyes/fluorescent dyes/isotope labelled molecules that attach to a specific protein such as the spike produced by the mRNA vaccine and not the naturally produced one. They are very different eg pseudouridine in the former having replaced uridine in the latter. I think there is a commercially available stain that works this way that is used in preparing tissue for microscopic examination.
        
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        June 25, 2023 5:05pm
  - Gaetano
    
    Stuff published an article during this week that said that the excess mortality is caused by COVID deaths and an aging population. The article referred to conspiracy theories in New Zealand about high excess deaths being caused by the vaccines. 😅
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/the-whole-truth/132369176/fact-checking-claims-about-new-zealands-2022-death-rate
    
    The population does not age enough in a few months to cause excess deaths spiking 😳 Yes the population is aging but life expectancy is also increasing.
    
    The excess deaths being recorded are not COVID deaths.
    
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    June 25, 2023 9:34am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Gaetano – she starts pretty badly. The whole article is riddled with nonsensical claims and deliberate statistical distortions, but her opening paragraph is a complete, provable lie.
      
      She says:
      
      Misinformation about death rates has been circulating in Aotearoa New Zealand and overseas since the pandemic.
      
      Prominent anti-vaccine figures are saying the country in 2022 experienced the highest increase in deaths in 100 years. They are blaming the coronavirus vaccine.
      
      There is no misinformation about death rates in NZ. The statistics are accurate. Even the Herald reported that 2022 was the biggest increase in all cause mortality since the Spanish Flu in 2018.
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/new-zealand-records-biggest-increase-in-registered-deaths-in-100-years/BQERSTKIANCKRNNA7IL42RD52U/
      
      The first sentence is clearly a blatant lie.
      
      There is an alarming increase in all cause mortality in NZ in 2022 and 2023 when compared to the 5 year period from 2014 – 2019. This is not misinformation, it is fact based on government data. 2022 was up over 10%, 2023 is looking worse.
      
      Do not get distracted by the smoke and mirrors used by David Seymour and Michael Baker of using the death rates from 2020 to 2022 and comparing them with the previous 5 year period.
      Forget about 2020 and 2021. They are statistically irrelevant as our borders were closed and we were in lockdown. Compare 2022 with 2014 – 2019. Do the same when the stats for 2023 are completed.
      
      So there is excess mortality. Absolutely and provably so.
      
      Her second claim is that ‘prominent anti vaccine’ (there’s the unfounded smear again) figures are blaming the coronavirus vaccine.
      No, they are instead, pointing out a massive correlation between vaccine rollout and this increase in all cause mortality. This is provably true.
      Most go out of their way to explain that there are numerous causes for this worrying trend. These include missed diagnoses of various illnesses, missed timely treatments for serious illnesses, increases in alcoholism, depression, suicide etc. All due to the various policies imposed by the government.
      
      What most do say, and they are correct to say, is that there are more than enough alarming signals to warrant an immediate halt to the vaccination programme and a thorough investigation carried out. This is provably true.
      
      When these ‘fact checkers’ turn their attention to something, you can almost guarantee that whatever conclusion they reach, the opposite will be the truth. I have found them a very useful tool when researching various topics over the last 3 years!
      
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      June 25, 2023 10:31am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Well said Clan Mcleod.
        That sums it up nicely .
        Now are we to assume that our ministry of health are incapable of understanding that there is a chance that there is causation or do we assume that they already know and they are covering it up.
        
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        June 25, 2023 10:57am
  - Handyman
    
    There is an alternative explanation of the graph, especially the winter peaks.
    
    You would get the same simple graph for the last twenty years in New Zealand. Every year flu is expected to peak in mid winter and there is a concerted effort to vaccinate people with seasonal flu jab in early winter.
    Similarly, the same simple graph could be made of regular seasonal events. For example, most sunburn occurs in mid summer and most sunblock sales occur in early summer.
    
    The interesting part of the Japanese graph is the mid summer peak. What persuaded many people to get the booster when there was no sign of an uptick in deaths? Was there an outbreak of hospitalisations? If so, the above winter logic above applies. I can’t tell from the data but it generates questions that need to be investigated.
    
    Again, all I am saying it that the graph raises interesting questions but not enough detail to draw definitive conclusions.
    
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    June 25, 2023 11:01am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Handyman – fair comments but undoubtedly there is more than enough concerning data to stop the programme and do the investigation.
      
      Previous vaccination programmes have been stopped instantly with dramatically fewer signals than are being witnessed with the covid vaccines.
      
      I think the scale of this one is the problem. If there is a problem, many will be culpable and will face the ire of millions of people worldwide, not to mention the potential legal penalties involved.
      
      Just think how many you know of in NZ who breathlessly insisted this thing was ‘safe and effective’. That alone is a provable lie. If it is proven to have contributed to or caused the premature death of hundreds of people, well, you can imagine the outcry.
      
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      June 25, 2023 11:28am
      - Handyman
        
        ClanMcleod – I agree.
        The answer is not in the aggregate or the total numbers. They are so fuzzy and can have several interpretations, including the official narrative. The problem is a small signal is hidden in a large amount of noise. Consider the average death rate for 80-85 yo is about 70,000 per million. The New Zealand covid death rate is about 900 per million for all ages. It is also logical that the 80yo people that covid got were at death’s door anyway so it is impossible to see the impact of covid or the vaccine on 80yo.
        The 80yo grannies that Jacinda “saved” in 2020 were just dry timber for whatever was around the following year.
        I point out to the young ones that the old people they saved have now died of old age but the young ones are now saddled with a virtual student loan of $100,000 each due to the lockdowns.
        
        My opinion, for what it is worth…
        1. The benefits of the vaccine postponed the death of some old people. The grim reaper caught up pretty quickly.
        2. The health impact of the vaccine was borne by adverse effects in the healthy young. This is the area where the data signal will be strongest.
        3. Separate out the effect of the vaccine from the effect of the lockdown. The impact of delayed medical treatment is becoming apparent, as is the impact of schools being locked down. The impact of increasing debt by $100billiion will be felt for a long time, the inevitable first sign being inflation.
        
        Final thought. Odd for the greatest health emergency of the century that none of the $100billion was spent on the health system.
        
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        June 25, 2023 1:12pm
- R
  
  Stuff is no better. According to Stuff, NZ’s record number of deaths in 2022 was due to Covid and our ageing population. Neither fully explains why 2021 and 2022 were record years for deaths here.
  
  We have had an ageing population for decades. But we haven’t had big jumps in deaths. In fact, in some years the number of deaths has fallen from the previous year. Our population grew by less than 1% in 2022, but deaths increased by more than 10%.
  
  As for Covid, the number of deaths is only marginally higher than a bad flu season. And the number of flu deaths has apparently fallen considerably. The net effect has been a relatively small increase in flu-like deaths since early 2020. Covid cannot possibly be the reason for the large jump in deaths last year.
  
  No, there must be something else going on. A run down health sector is probably a major factor. But there may be other factors too.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/the-whole-truth/132369176/fact-checking-claims-about-new-zealands-2022-death-rate
  
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  June 25, 2023 10:24am
Bridgenag

A Nurses’ POV on COVID and Healthcare
“Lived experience” testimony and conclusions

“Now that I have called their bluff and they blinked, I am ready to report in detail on how Healthcare has been deliberately transitioned into Deathcare and how hospitals are providing mostly hospice care. I am ready to warn the public that, in fact, if you aloofly take your son to the hospital for something as routine as asthma you risk his life. The Feds conducted a hostile take-over of Healthcare in America and they do not care about the health of Americans. I can not say why they’ve done this, but I can report how they orchestrated it.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/a-nurses-pov-on-covid-and-healthcare?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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June 25, 2023 8:03am
mister nui

Round 1

Putin 1
Prigozhin 0.5
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June 25, 2023 8:05am
- kowtow
  
  Nah , Putin went on national tv addressing the nation.
  Now the whole country will see there’s some serious, mysterious shenanigans going on .
  Not to mention the fact that so many young men have fled the country and so many families and/or neighbours will know of casualities in Ukraine .
  
  I don’t think anyone’s a winner .
  
  A pox on all of them.
  
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  June 25, 2023 11:09am
- ClanMcleod
  
  mister nui – so many breathless anti Putin/Russia people were wetting their knickers last night at the thought of a coup in Russia. Any rational person knew there was no chance of that happening. Putin, whether people in the west believe it or not, has high approval rating in Russia.
  
  It looks increasingly as though Prighozin got a bit carried away with his belief that he’s some sort of national hero. That he had massive support among the general population. Ego got ahead of his rational thought.
  
  Apparently he’s moving to Belarus. I’d be surprised if he makes it to round 2.
  Actually if it was Hillary instead of Vlad, he’d probably already be in a body bag. 🙄
  
  Not a clever move.
  
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  June 25, 2023 11:42am
- Vory v zakone
  
  Ukrainian/Western Intelligence backed attempt to collapse Putin’s govt thwarted. “Kudos” for trying though… 😉
  
  https://youtube.com/watch?v=8zMyQuuVV-Q&feature=share
  
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  June 25, 2023 2:24pm
- Vory v zakone
  
  Or as Elon puts it..😅
  
  https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1672795483712913410?t=pswT32-onRkLFTIXNupKUQ&s=
  
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  June 25, 2023 2:47pm
Scooter

[Mod – please don’t post rumours here]
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June 25, 2023 8:06am
- Scooter
  
  Sorry about the “rumour” part, besides that it seems Ayesha does tick a lot of boxes ethnic, gay, a scientist.
  
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  June 25, 2023 10:35am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    [Mod – deleted, stop trying to post rumours]
    
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    June 25, 2023 10:55am
Lee C

Is this just my perception, or is it starting to look like Clinton (H) and Biden (J) with the assistance of Obama (B) hae been colluding in an extended campaign to denounce Trump (J) for the very crimes they have been themselves been committing._

Could it be that Trump (J) is not on Not Guilty, but the record is beginning to show he has been victim of a smear campaign of misinformation and disinformation that in recent times has only been matched by the ‘science of the pandemic’?
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June 25, 2023 8:07am
- Colville
  
  and this surprises you how (H)?
  
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  June 25, 2023 8:09am
- Mike
  
  No.
  
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  June 25, 2023 8:10am
- stephen2d
  
  LOL 🤣
  Watch Trumps interview with Bauer on Fox, and see for yourself what a moron Trump is.
  
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  June 25, 2023 8:16am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Biden got 81 million votes my left tit. If only Americans stopped watching CNN.
    
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    June 25, 2023 10:37am
- All_on_Red
  
  Clinton set it up and paid for it but Biden and Obama knew about it. That’s all been confirmed.
  Judging by the way the WH Press Corp savaged KJP yesterday I think they have been given permission to tell you all about Butt Hunter and the Biden Pay for Play scheme. That text message is a killer…
  Guess the Dems don’t want Joe to do another Term.
  
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  June 25, 2023 8:44am
  - Inandout
    
    AoR, the simple fact is Joe can’t physically do another term. In this case the Machine either miscalculated or they have another person ready to quickly fill the role.
    
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    June 25, 2023 8:51am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      There is another person. She is evil and just waiting for that chance.
      Humiliated by Trump again – delicious.
      
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      June 25, 2023 10:39am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Heres a series of links worth reading if you’re interested
    Whistleblower Testimony and Hunters Text (btw they have a timestamped photo of Hunter driving Joes Corvette the evening the text was sent and Hunter claimed he was with Joe)
    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/06/is-the-cover-up-unraveling.php
    More corroborative evidence
    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/06/days-after-hunter-bidens-threatening-whatsapp-message-5-million-rolled-in.php
    Here’s the WH Press Corp with KJP
    Haven’t seen them this aggressive since, well, Trump was President
    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/06/the-roof-is-collapsing-on-biden.php
    
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    June 25, 2023 8:55am
    - mawm
      
      Being lied to and swallowing that lie hook, line and sinker tends to make people angry. Is this the wake up call for the MSM?
      
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      June 25, 2023 5:31pm
G152

Notice how the ‘trial’ of Trump has been put back.
Id hazard a guess that this ‘trial’ will be over his head for the foreseeable future
‘
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June 25, 2023 8:11am
Chuck Bird

This shows that the Herald is the most balanced of all MSM.

Media Bias Exposed | David Farrar | The Common Room

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taQRmAFDb9Q
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June 25, 2023 8:18am
- kowtow
  
  It only shows a perception .
  
  Today’s Sunday Herald has a huge , colourful 3 full page spread on their far left favourite MP , C Swarbrick , plus a taster on the front page .
  
  It’s not even subtle , it’s a punch in the face .
  
  Oh and that Jared Savage article , with a massive splash on the front page on “straw buyers” is perfectly timed to coincide with the Arms Register go live.
  
  The Herald should rename itself the Regime Daily .
  
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  June 25, 2023 8:34am
  - Inandout
    
    kow, many years ago I would go to the dairy and scoop up a Sunday News, Times and Herald before they sold out. Then during the week the local garage would have The Truth for the juicier articles. The internet must have saved me hundreds of dollars annually and kept me sort of sane.
    
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    June 25, 2023 11:58am
    - kowtow
      
      Me too .Always subscribed to the local rag.
      I now use press reader ( which I consider I pay for through my exorbitant rates) Gotta claw something back from the bastards.
      
      As to insanity , when my computer plays up it drives me mad.
      
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      June 25, 2023 12:27pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Chuck Bird – I disagree, what it shows is that it is the perception of most people that the Herald is neutral.
  
  The perception of most people was (and likely still is) that the vaccine is safe and effective. We know for a fact that is not true. The NZ Herald was one of the biggest pushers of the covid narrative and undoubtedly one of the biggest recipients of PIJF dollars, not to mention substantial advertising dollars.
  They were not neutral on covid and they are not neutral on climate change.
  
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  June 25, 2023 9:09am
  - Albie
    
    Far as I can tell Clan the only media organisation neutral on climate change is The Platform. Plunkett calls it the greatest hoax of our time, and Laws is a true believer. ( I tend to side with Plunkett on that one!)
    
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    June 25, 2023 9:25am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      @Albie – yes, The Platform. Also have a listen to https://realitycheck.radio/
      
      Here’s links to replays of a couple of their prior shows discussing it.
      
      https://realitycheck.radio/jo-mackey-global-warming-warning-geologist-discusses-the-fundamentals-of-science-debunking-the-narrative/
      
      https://realitycheck.radio/climate-talks/
      
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      June 25, 2023 11:48am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      Groundswell Radio is also very good on the issue.
      They had Dr Tom Sheahan, Dr Doug Edmendes and Barry Brill.
      
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      June 25, 2023 2:11pm
Colville

So I woke up from a phone call from someone I didn’t know telling me to get out of bed, I was in a room I didn’t recognise but thankfully not beside someone I didn’t recognize, my clothes were not in the room however, after walking out of the room and locking myself out! I realized I was in 106 rather than 107 so after I got a card for 106 from a very skeptical young (gorgeous) lady I got back in to get my phone then I had to get a card for 107 to get my phone so that done and a quick shower I got a Uber and now in the lounge at chch airport eating a stale Danish (why?) and a glass of oj and wanting to die.

But by fuck it was a great night and isn’t Razor the greatest coach?

😎
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June 25, 2023 8:19am
- John Loveridge
  
  Just checking a detail – were you naked when you locked yourself out of the room, and was that why the young lady was skeptical?
  
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  June 25, 2023 9:48am
- blue collar
  
  Classic !
  N yes , razor is THE MAN
  
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  June 25, 2023 12:55pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

I have just been watching the Stop Co-Governance livestream from last night.
Over 4 hours, I am half way through. It is great to watch this without interruptions as happened to me at Orewa. Julian telling his story about how he had to start this. He got to a point where he broke a pencil in half because he had had enough. That was the start – the pencil snapping.

https://livestream.com/accounts72885/stopco-governancemeeting
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June 25, 2023 8:37am
softail 1450

The Wagner coup attempt is over ..
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June 25, 2023 8:44am
- kowtow
  
  There’ll be fallout .
  
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  June 25, 2023 12:28pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Why is Thomas Cranmer the only person delving into the 3-Waters dog-breakfast legislation currently before Parliament?

https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2023/06/24/thomas-cranmer-three-waters-amendment-bill-before-parliament/
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June 25, 2023 9:15am
- krazykiwi
  
  Why?
  
  PIJF.
  
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  June 25, 2023 9:24am
  - Swifty
    
    I wonder too how much social pressure is present in our news rooms to not ask the hard questions, to not rock the boat, to not say or write anything which might give others any thought that you are not a proud progressive bathed in Maori wonderfulness:
    
    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/132370714/signs-of-the-racist-times-mori-bilingual-signage-still-used-for-racebaiting
    
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    June 25, 2023 9:37am
  - Bridgenag
    
    Sorry What is PIJF
    
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    June 25, 2023 1:46pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Public Interest Journalism Fund….
      
      https://commonroomnz.com/graham-adams-has-government-money-corrupted-journalism/
      
      https://www.nzonair.govt.nz/news/focus-on-ongoing-success-of-existing-roles-for-final-pijf-funding-round/
      
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      June 25, 2023 7:28pm
- Nickc2
  
  Probably because it has a life expectancy of another 3,5 months before it’s scrapped by the NAT/ACT Govt.
  NB: Luxon has stated he is committed to doing this.
  
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  June 25, 2023 9:31am
  - Matt Long
    
    Looking forward to the Progressive Comprehensive 15 Waters announcement next year.
    
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    June 25, 2023 11:22am
Philview

TVNZ News last night didn’t have much to say about the biggest global news story of the day from Russia. A bit strange I thought..
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June 25, 2023 9:25am
- emmess
  
  Because they are children and have no real understanding of what can potentially have major world changing effects, and what is just fluff.
  Turns out it didn’t have much effect though, but it could have.
  
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  June 25, 2023 10:23am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  They won’t speak against comrades
  
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  June 25, 2023 10:58am
- kowtow
  
  Yep , it got barely 30 seconds followed by yet another relatively long but totally irrelevant bath tub toy porn tragedy piece.
  
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  June 25, 2023 11:02am
Gaetano

This is a good example of the downside of mixing the Maori and English languages in a single information source.

Last night I wanted to find the name of the CE of a government agency. So I consulted the official government list.

https://www.publicservice.govt.nz/system/leaders/current-leaders/

It is horrible.

Why on earth do they do this? It would be so simple to have Maori and English versions. Dual language websites work in Canada, Belgium, the Netherlands and indeed in every country with two official languages.

This literally gives me a headache. However it seems like a battle that has been lost. It would require the government to direct the public service to stop it. I can’t see National doing it.

The only purpose of language is communication.
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June 25, 2023 9:27am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  All part of the Coup. The more they confuse us, the more we just accept it.
  
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  June 25, 2023 9:48am
- John Loveridge
  
  What a mess. And the tiny minority language gets top billing.
  
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  June 25, 2023 9:50am
  - Gaetano
    
    Yes and your brain attempts to process the first section of the text on each line. It is just unbelievable. Also unprecedentedly globally AFAIK. The reason is that other populations would not stand for it. You think French speakers in Belgium would stand for Flemish being mixed with French?
    
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    June 25, 2023 10:14am
  - Lance
    
    Critical Race Theory in action
    There is an agenda and it is well underway
    
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    June 25, 2023 12:53pm
- artemisia
  
  The Metservice website is an example of good name communication. A small simple banner. Tells you what people actually want to know along with a tiny nod to you-know-who.
  
  Metservice.com
  
  (I stopped using the site when they ‘upgraded’ it but they since actually did upgrade it. Good clear info, including specifics for some tradies and for household laundry.)
  
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  June 25, 2023 10:31am
- kowtow
  
  No it’s the principle purpose , however in the hands of political operators it becomes whatever they decide it is , and in our case it becomes a stick to beat people with and an instrument of very expensive and divisive virtue signalling.
  
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  June 25, 2023 10:59am
- Drone
  
  @Gaetano the introduction of mixed English Maori language communications by the government is a deliberate plan to make “Minglish” an official language and because it would be too hard to run 100% translation on all government communications..
  
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  June 25, 2023 6:48pm
Lee C

They decided to politicise “kerching” via the media.

Then branded it for the sheeple as “Caring”.
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June 25, 2023 9:30am
Rusty

I was hoping the Chiefs would win last night but this Crusaders team is something else so good on them.
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June 25, 2023 9:44am
- gravedodger
  
  Agree Rusty , I was having my cognitives challenged as one with Red and Black Blood cells when an apparent ambivalence was displayed pre kick off justified by a suggestion that a Chiefs victory would be no bad thing for Rugby.
  
  All discounted at full time when my respect for Razor, Sam W, Richie and Co went off the scale.
  
  Yes there was a forward pass in Mohunga’s try but show me a game where such human error was not present.
  Come in Mr Barnes at Cardiff
  Cane, Jacobson and Lienert Brown can reflect all they wish, Discipline was won convincingly by the Crusaders last night.
  
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  June 25, 2023 11:34am
- Dodger
  
  rusty, two of the yellow cards were very suspicious.
  
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  June 25, 2023 1:37pm
Observant Octagenarian

All Blacks Captain, Sam Cane, caught cheating, given Yellow Card.
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June 25, 2023 9:45am
- Nickc2
  
  About 10 minutes out, the Chiefs were in the lead and were stuck with two options. One being to keep the Crusaders pinned down inside their half using long raking kicks. The other was to keep running the ball and increase the score margin.
  They chose the latter, and that didn’t work.
  When they lost their Captain, they were compelled to defend with fourteen men, and clearly, on their own Goal Line and without one of their best defenders, it was beyond them.
  I too was hoping for a Chief’s win, but they were victims of their own decisions.
  
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  June 25, 2023 10:08am
  - Cinematic
    
    The victim was rugby.
    
    An overly officious ref pinged the Chiefs so many times in the first 15 minutes of the game he made a rod for his back. A number of those first few penalties need not have been whistled, with the ball clearly available and playable at the back of the ruck. Let the game go ref! But no.
    
    The Jacobson and Cane yellow cards robbed fans of an even contest. Despite the massive advantage offered to them the Crusaders only managed to bumble their way to a narrow victory.
    
    BTW I didn’t have a horse in the race. Sad day for the game I love.
    
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    June 25, 2023 11:04am
    - Nickc2
      
      Yes, I had previously considered the Ref. to be one of the best doing the rounds but last night, well, enuff said eh?
      It could have been worse though, we could have had an Aussie commentator!!!
      
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      June 25, 2023 11:31am
    - JimBobJoe
      
      Nah sorry.
      
      The Chiefs have specialised in slowing opposition ruck ball all year. This was obviously highlighted to the Ref by the Crusaders pre-game so he looked.
      
      And LO! The Chiefs were staying in the way constantly and got penalised, then carded.
      
      I’m a Canes fan and the Chiefs v Canes game in Wellington, which I watched in the stands and was watching the ruck closely was a clear example of not releasing, leaving an arm in, encroaching along the side of the ruck and every other tactic to slow the opponents ruck clearance time to allow the Chiefs D line to reset.
      
      The Chiefs got caught out in the final by not adjusting
      
      The final was a great game purely because ruck infringements were hit, for both sides, via penalty. It had more flow than a lot of games recently.
      
      The fact the Chiefs didn’t adjust to the ref is the issue for all Chiefs fans – they played into the Cantabs game plan – penalty, kick to corner, maul and score.
      
      On top of that the Chiefs scrum was not rock solid at times in the game, which puts pressure on the backline timing and also the Chiefs lineout was quite shaky.
      
      I frankly loathe the Crusaders, but they beat the Chiefs fair and square in Hamilton..
      
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      June 25, 2023 11:43am
      - Cinematic
        
        Well, they didn’t beat the Chiefs fair and square. They beat the Chiefs via a lopsided 15-8 penalty count in their favour and played against 14 for 3o minutes (38% of the game). I don’t believe the Chiefs were guilty to that extraordinary degree.
        
        In any case, I have no quibble with the ALB 10 minutes. The other yellow cards I don’t believe were necessary and stole from the fans, and in fact from the Crusaders having last night achieved something of a Clayton’s victory.
        
        Rugby needs to fix this. Too many technical yellow cards that tilt the playing field. Too many penalties interrupting the flow of the game.
        
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        June 25, 2023 11:57am
      - I remember when
        
        Cinematic talks about a lopsided penalty count in the Crusaders favour.
        Except that the point of penalties is not to apply them equally, but to stop infringements.
        While the chiefs did have to play with 14 men for thirty minutes, the first yellow should have become a red so, at worst, only 10 minutes was unjustified.
        
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        June 25, 2023 12:23pm
- blue collar
  
  WHY THE CHIEFS LOST .
  Too emotionally hyped up .
  Totally Blew it .
  They were so pumped up pre game by a rookie coach that they failed to rein it in and adjust to a ref who clearly communicated the issues .
  Forward pass was offset by ALB call which should hv been red card .
  Crusaders more level headed and professionally did the job .
  That’s what I saw , a group of young men who couldn’t handle the occasion in front of their home fans ,
  
  Want proof ?
  Their failure to attend post match , just the coach . Pathetic . Speeches , pathetic . No opposition did well kinda stuff , all about them , except for Sam cane . Kudos there .
  Booing fans ? Pathetic .
  I’m sorry but the best team won , the chiefs CHOKED , their coach CHOKED and their fans were an EMBARRASSMENT.
  Take ya bells n fuck off losers
  
  Ps . McMillan bagging the ref puts him in the little boys club . Should coach the all whites instead . Surprised the Mooloo cry babies didn’t walk off the pitch in protest
  
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  June 25, 2023 1:13pm
  - Nickc2
    
    That’s what’s so great about the game of Rugby, we can all watch the game and everyone will come to a different conclusion about how the game was won/lost.
    However, my conclusion is always the right one and everyone else’s is so off-point, they must have been watching a different game eh?
    
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    June 25, 2023 2:08pm
  - Colville
    
    I think the ref gave a yellow for the head clash because it was the final. Any other game it would have been a red.
    He has been cited.
    
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    June 25, 2023 2:15pm
  - Tricati
    
    Couldn’t agree more – During the week there was an article on the radio about the Chiefs having a team meeting before their semi final against the Brumbies, on how they will beat the Crusaders. (Bit presumptuous)
    Then during the week we had a number of Chiefs players commenting on how they know what to do to beat the Crusaders, given they had beaten them twice. The last game had 2 very bad calls against the Crusaders that resulted in 2 disallowed tries.
    Maybe the Chiefs were believing their own hype and felt they were ‘entitled’ to the win, unfortunately the Crusaders turned up and upset the cart – The chiefs comments re ref etc is very poor form and just sour grapes.
    
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    June 25, 2023 2:30pm
  - Opie
    
    Rugby union. A game where you can be sent off for an accidental head clash.
    
    There is too much riding on these games for them to be spoilt by stupid rules and over zealous refereeing.
    
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    June 25, 2023 9:28pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

Going to University these days does not make you smart, it makes you a pawn.
Those who do go to Julian’s meetings are smart, caring, and informed people.

https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/packed-house-in-invercargill-mayor-nobby-clark-a-big-hit/
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June 25, 2023 9:57am
sirknz

Item number 7,623 of what to expect under co-governance.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132383325/weve-been-played-locals-fury-as-jewel-in-the-crown-marine-reserve-stalled

Yet another marine reserve stalled because (paraphrasing here) “conservation is a western concept and we can’t go fishing here if we agree to this”.

Don’t tell me that you are ‘stewards of the environment’ while blocking things that will help in looking after the natural environment for everyone.
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June 25, 2023 9:58am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Bill Gates is funding a vitamin that make men infertile, and women miscarry.
Gates wants to reduce the World population. Does that make him a murderer?

https://valiantnews.com/2023/06/bill-gates-funds-vitamin-linked-to-infertility/
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June 25, 2023 10:01am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  It makes him a very dangerous pos, if we get further down the track, what is too say health and gps may give these meds to people saying it is a treatment for something else
  
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  June 25, 2023 11:01am
- Mike
  
  Mods say no rumours about Ayesha Verrall here. Much crazier rumours about Bill Gates are fine.
  
  [Mod – prove him wrong, it’s not hard to do]
  
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  June 25, 2023 11:10am
- Ghost
  
  The vitamin a doses that the gates foundation has been using in Africa has been to reduce child deaths. Also vitamin a is important in your diet Steve, most people get it through their diet.
  
  https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-a-deficiency-symptoms
  
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  June 25, 2023 11:16am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Unlike his polio vaccine which actually caused polio cases in Africa this year.
    
    https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/polio-vaccine-gates-funded/
    
    And in 2020.
    
    https://lichtnahrung2015.wordpress.com/2020/09/06/un-forced-tothat-admit-that-gates-funded-vaccine-is-causing-polio-outbreak-in-africa/
    
    He’s a college dropout who stole someone else’s software and made billions from it. He isn’t a doctor but insists on meddling in nature and making billions in the process. Because he loves us. //
    
    Follow the money.
    
    He’s no philanthropist and his family has provable connections with the eugenics movement and the Club of Rome policies.
    He’s the second biggest funder of the WHO. He was the biggest until Biden resumed the US contributions. He owns GAVI. He’s on record stating that vaccines are the best investment he ever made for dollar returns.
    
    He’s a bored, billionaire narcissist who treats the planet like his personal petri dish. Remember his release of GE modified mosquitos in Florida?
    
    The Bill Gates-backed biotech firm Oxitec is going ahead with plans to release hundreds of millions of gene-altered mosquitos in Florida in order to test an experimental new form of population control
    
    EXPERIMENTAL!! What could possibly go wrong?!
    
    Not human population control I hasten to add, though he is also on record telling us we need to reduce the world population. Bizarre, as the current issue facing the planet is a rapidly approaching decline in population.
    
    Gates should stick to Epstein’s Island.
    
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    June 25, 2023 12:07pm
    - alwyn.a
      
      Don’t you dare say mean things about Bill (or Melinda) Gates.
      He is a wonderful, generous man. I got an email this morning to tell me that he is giving me 1.5 million dollars. Isn’t he marvelous? All I have to do is …..
      
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      June 25, 2023 12:37pm
- gravedodger
  
  Merely someone inheriting and resurrecting Mengle’s philosophies, Steve.
  Just s offensive now as then.
  
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  June 25, 2023 11:37am
Maggie Pie

Only just home from Mass. As we entered the nave this morning, in light of last weeks tragic events I found it a very poignant moment to have the choir sing the first 3 verses of….. “For Those In Peril On The Sea”
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June 25, 2023 10:03am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Maggie. Luv ya but please spare us your bible-thumping.
  
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  June 25, 2023 11:40am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

How the implosion of the Titan may have looked: instant death.

https://twitter.com/realTomPappert/status/1671913670127779853
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June 25, 2023 10:11am
- Gaetano
  
  It would not have looked like that video portrayal. At 6000 PSI it would have been over in milliseconds as soon as the hull was breached.
  
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  June 25, 2023 10:21am
  - gravedodger
    
    Similar time frame as for those aboard the DC 10 at Erebus where one described death coming in less than a shutter speed of a camera. eg someone having pressed the button for a pic was dead before the shutter closed again.
    
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    June 25, 2023 11:44am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Early days for …..
    A word I can’t think of. Speculation? No.
    
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    June 25, 2023 12:21pm
    - Gaetano
      
      I’m not speculating. I looked up the pressure at 12000 feet.
      
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      June 25, 2023 1:12pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I was looking for a word that describes the negative memes.
        Ilhan Omar “Some people did something” refering to 9/11.
        
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        June 25, 2023 4:35pm
    - Ghost
      
      What your video shows Steve is a submarine, not a Carbon fiber submersible that had nothing in it. So Gaetano Is right, wouldn’t have looked like anything that and would have been over in milliseconds, as the experts have already said.
      
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      June 25, 2023 2:00pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I know this Ghost. Just a few things I saw.
        
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        June 25, 2023 5:48pm
Gaetano

“However, the iwi has two boards operating on its behalf, and the Ngāti Pāoa Iwi Trust is opposed, arguing that marine reserves are “a western concept that extinguish mana moana”.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132383325/weve-been-played-locals-fury-as-jewel-in-the-crown-marine-reserve-stalled

Why do we even entertain such idiocy?

We could reply that a social welfare system is a “western concept” so guess what?
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June 25, 2023 10:28am
- I remember when
  
  Marine reserves are “a western concept that extinguish mana moana.”
  
  And here was me thinking that, in the case of the Kermadecs, a voyage of 1400 kms in a canoe might be what extinguishes it.
  
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  June 25, 2023 12:02pm
Maggie Pie

Just checked my Lotto tickets.
Very pleased to see the Powerball went unstruck once again 😀
I picked up $22….(three plus the bonus).
Means I get another free hit on Wednesday.
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June 25, 2023 10:30am
- kevn
  
  @Maggie… Voluntary tax, but a bit of fun I guess.
  
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  June 25, 2023 10:52am
  - Mike
    
    Tax on the poors.
    
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    June 25, 2023 11:10am
    - Local Miller
      
      Only if the pools buys a ticket.
      
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      June 25, 2023 5:44pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      My Grandson (23) says he will win Lotto one day, but he never buys a ticket.
      
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      June 25, 2023 5:51pm
- David Garrett
  
  maggie: surely you are already far too wealthy to need Lotto ?
  
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  June 25, 2023 1:29pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Only an arrant fool would turn their nose up at rthe chance of another 30MIL Dave 😀
    
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    June 25, 2023 1:55pm
    - Biscuit
      
      Indeed, Maggie.
      
      I’ve not yet bought a Lotto ticket this year but, come Wednesday, I just may stroll into Countdown and indulge…
      
      Partner, who indulges each and every draw for one (1) $5000 win in all the years, always jests that I will be turfed out if and when she ever wins big.
      
      Thirty mill and I just may get the cojones to do the same to her, ha…
      
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      June 25, 2023 2:13pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Keep in touch if you do Bikkie 😛
        
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        June 25, 2023 3:08pm
TripeWryter

I have a soft spot for Chloe Swarbrick, the Green MP. I would never vote for her or her party, though.
I read this morning Shayne Currie’s patsy feature on Chloe in The New Zealand Herald this morning.
I kind of stopped at she told Currie that she’d read Sir Ian Taylor’s open letter to her about her wealth tax idea – FOUR TIMES.
And she hadn’t understood the point he was making.
Dear, dear Chloe: you have been blessed with many gifts. Youth, looks, eduction at a top Auckland school, university degrees, a fine brain.
Your gifts and talents far outweigh mine.
I got Sir Ian’s point and I read his open letter ONCE.
He was telling Chloe that she didn’t know much about setting up and running a business; that wealth was often-times hard-earned; that sometimes people and their businesses failed; sometimes people lost everything; sometimes ‘wealth’ is illusory; but over-taxing people of their money to pay for stuff deemed essential by envy-fostering politicians and bureucrats can sometimes rebound.
People give up and take their ambitions and talents – and their wealth – elsewhere to somewhere they use their money as they wish.
But his main point was that over-taxing the rich does not encourage governments to spend better.
That’s all not hard to grasp.
I also note that she never responded to Sir Ian Taylor’s letter in kind.
She used a patsy feature instead.
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June 25, 2023 10:34am
- artemisia
  
  Heh, don’t undersell yourself! Always good posts from you TripeWryter, just too few of them.
  
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  June 25, 2023 10:51am
  - TripeWryter
    
    Jeez, Artemisia. You’re far too kind. Thank you.
    
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    June 25, 2023 11:01am
    - Biscuit
      
      No, no, no, Artemesia.
      
      This is KiwiBlog.
      
      No agreeing with other posters’ posts is permitted!
      
      You have to question TripeWryter’s parentage, ethics, thinking patterns, sexuality and imply that he was involved in some (no need to specify) nefarious dealings way way back in the past!
      
      [But in a nice manner so that our kindly mods’ knickers aren’t twisted!]
      
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      June 25, 2023 2:17pm
      - TripeWryter
        
        Biscuit: thank you. I can assure you my parentage was impeccable.
        My parents were fine, hard-working people who sought only to do good. They had six children and we had a good upbringing.
        Any failures by me are down to me.
        
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        June 25, 2023 5:12pm
- Taieri
  
  you have been blessed with many gifts. Youth, looks, eduction at a top Auckland school, university degrees, a fine brain.
  ———-
  
  Not much of an education and a “fine brain” if she can’t understand a simple message after reading it four times…
  
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  June 25, 2023 11:55am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Methinks Sir Ian should have written in crayon if he wanted the Greens to understand his message. A bonus for pictures.
    
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    June 25, 2023 4:34pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  What will Chloe do when she leaves politics?? What other trough and she and her Green partner do??
  
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  June 25, 2023 12:43pm
  - Biscuit
    
    She could get herself full employment arranging James Shaw’s next overseas trips [First Class airfares, thirteen-starred hotel etc] where he gets to tell us, after guzzling 123,456,789 barrels of oil, that the oil-barrel using that you and I get through is pure evil and that we should stop or … he will have no choice but to go on a few more overseas trips.
    
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    June 25, 2023 2:21pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Chloe will dump the greens and join Labour.
    You heard it here first.
    
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    June 25, 2023 5:58pm
Surely Knott

If NZ media are govt funded (and they are) then don’t they have an obligation to be just a tiny bit balanced. How many features and docos do we have exclusively on Chloe Swarbricks personal life sex life and psychosocial issues?

Today Red banner top story. “Chlöe Swarbrick opens up on life, family, politics..and why she’s not in politics forever”
1 news 22 ” Chloe Swarbrick on self-forgiveness after ADHD diagnosis”
Stuff 22 ‘Is trippy-dippy Chloe Swarbrick actually the cool MP? I thought I was’ The Secret diary of David Seymour. Satire.
2019, ” CHLÖE SWARBRICK ON DROPPING OUT, IDENTITY, ANXIETY, THE INTERNET AND NZ FASHION”
Documentary: Being Chloe funded by NZ on air
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June 25, 2023 11:07am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  ‘Sex life?’ Well, I don’t know what they get up to where she lives….
  
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  June 25, 2023 6:00pm
I remember when

“Isn’t misinformation and disinformation just lying?” Tony Diver: The Spectator.

And that being the case, isn’t it what we expect the media to filter for us.
Or, at least, we used to be able to do so.
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June 25, 2023 11:51am
thirteenstars

From the Brownstone Institute, a very good exploration of what it means to be woke and the motivations for it:

https://brownstone.org/articles/what-and-why-is-woke/

Worth a close read. Good ammunition for those who know woke when they hear it but find it hard to provide a concise definition.
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June 25, 2023 12:35pm
- Dave
  
  Well worth a read indeed, though I would add one more point to their list.
  
  Woke is highly performative, ie, uses language as a substitute for action, perhaps under the influence of post modernism’s obsession with discourse. One does not have to achieve anything to join the company of woke saints, merely denounce unrighteousness in another’s language.
  
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  June 25, 2023 1:40pm
Chuck Bird

I watched Luxon’s speech. There were some excellent policies on crime. The one thing I would like to see added is class A drug dealing to the 3 Strike list.

He still is a climate change alarmist. I think most farmes will vote for Act.
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June 25, 2023 2:25pm
- nathie
  
  One thing that concerns me about ACT/Seymour is that they don’t have an issue with expanding cities over fertile food producing land.
  
  Heard Seymour being interviewed on The Country about this a couple of weeks ago.
  
  For National though it depends on the land classification. Perhaps ACT should adopt this policy too?
  
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  June 25, 2023 5:54pm
  - Gaetano
    
    “One thing that concerns me about ACT/Seymour is that they don’t have an issue with expanding cities over fertile food producing land.”
    
    This has been going on forever.
    
    In Australia the Sydney Basin is prime agriculture land. I lived there in the 1980s.
    
    Now covered in houses. Is Australia starving? No.
    
    Give it up.
    
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    June 25, 2023 7:35pm
    - Gaetano
      
      Her you go.
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Basin
      
      Give it up.
      
      Allow markets to determine land use. Not idiot politicians.
      
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      June 25, 2023 7:37pm
  - Sean Rush
    
    The argument that land is ‘productive’ because it grows crops or sheep is less evidenced based than you’d think. In Nz we far around 7 to 12 sheep a hectare.
    
    That land could support a lot of homes. Working couples easily earning more than the value of a dozen sheep a year and contributing tax, buying goods and services joining the school board etc.
    
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    June 25, 2023 8:11pm
Maggie Pie

WOW! They don’t even TRY and hide it any more 🙁

Trannies chant…..
“We’re here, We’re queer, and we’re coming for your children”

https://twitter.com/TimcastNews/status/1672410287251529735

Roll-On October 14th.
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June 25, 2023 3:16pm
- Gaetano
  
  A change of Government in New Zealand will not make a blind bit of difference to the transitioning of children in New Zealand. What makes you think otherwise?
  
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  June 25, 2023 5:25pm
  - Gaetano
    
    It will take parents to stop this madness – politicians – forget it. They are petrified of being accused of “trans phobic”. Sure – National gave very muted support for Kellie Jay Keen being allowed in the country, but none of them defended her views.
    
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    June 25, 2023 6:14pm
Chuck Bird

I just bought, Climate Uncertainty and Risk by Judith Curry with Kindle.

It will be some interesting reading.
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June 25, 2023 4:52pm
Maggie Pie

Pretty scathing of our ‘Dame’…..

“Ardern was never a leader”.
“She’s nothing more than a grandstander”
“I’d sooner buy Mao’s Little Red Book than hers”
“She’s left New Zealand a total basketcase”

https://tiktok.com/@mycooltiktok1/video/7248331367346457864
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June 25, 2023 5:12pm
- Albie
  
  Methinks I’d have trouble putting her up there with the likes of Churchill, JFK, Reagan and Thatcher, although her sycophant followers would tell you otherwise.
  Her contribution to our country, and the world for that matter; history will find a place for her is all I can say.
  
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  June 25, 2023 6:11pm
kevn

‘Police rubbish claims NZer’s are arming themselves’ per the herald.
Ask any dairy/small solo shop owners? People living alone? Might not be firearms, ( the gangs have all that stuff however) but I’ll bet you there are plenty of baseball bats, hockey sticks, hammers and misc axe handles etc tucked away.
How wrong are the police.
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June 25, 2023 5:27pm
- Gaetano
  
  IMO if someone breaks into your house with the intent of stealing from you, or doing you harm, you should be able to shoot them dead. It is depressing that this is even up for debate.
  
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  June 25, 2023 6:18pm
  - Matt Long
    
    If you want your firearms licence you must answer that you will not use your firearms for self defense.
    I don’t recall being asked if I intended to use them in commission of crimes, perhaps that is taken for granted.
    
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    June 25, 2023 8:08pm
nathie

Back inside after gardening this arvo – was listening to the radio and mention of National’s conference including law and order during that time … but checking online now (NZH/Stuff) there is no mention of National apart from a single Labour positive headline piece on each attacking National!! And nope didn’t click on them as a result! 🙂
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June 25, 2023 5:49pm
- Gaetano
  
  Yes I saw that too. They don’t even pretend any longer.
  
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  June 25, 2023 6:19pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Steve is going to have his dinner. Then a lay down.
Up, it is two hocks of bacon and all the other stuff. I hid some for my breakfast – yer breakfast. Um, enough in the crockpot for two!
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June 25, 2023 6:08pm

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