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May 3, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 03 May 2023

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Blog-aholic

The latest Poll is the death rattle of a country once knon as New Zealand……
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May 3, 2023 8:01am
- Simon
  
  With the incoming Labo/Gween/MP govt from 2024 as farms come up for sale, they will be purchased by the state then given to iwi cartels to own. Whole tracts of NZ productive land reduced to ruin and neglect. Mini Zimbabwe is NZ’s future.
  
  The funding for the purchases will come from a capital gain tax on kiwisaver accounts.
  
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  May 3, 2023 8:09am
  - LauraNorda
    
    Simon, this basically has already been done. Just look at all the former Lands & Survey or Landcorp or Pamu (whatever they call themselves) farms that were on the western side of Lake Taupo between Whakamaru, Turangi, Taumarunui and National Park. With one exception, that of Landcorp’s farm at National Park, they all are now in the hands of IWI organisation. Funding for IWI’s purchases came from you, the Taxpayer.
    
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    May 3, 2023 10:56am
    - Mark Hanley
      
      Dont panic. Polls around the western world have supported left leaning parties but come election day the result is right.
      
      Australia is an exception but traditionally there has been very little difference between the different governments.
      
      Albanese had the good sense to ask voters permission to enact racist policies which he must know will result in them being resoundly rejected.
      
      The next question is if the NZ labour party is spending more for worse outcomes, who is receiving all our money?
      
      One other interesting snippet I picked up recently is Australia is spending less per capita on health. It just shows how ridiculous NZ votes are that they accept a huge spending blowout with poorer outcomes.
      
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      May 3, 2023 11:15am
- Asterius Mario
  
  IMO it puts beyond doubt that the National Party is not resonating with enough voters to successfully form a government in the coming election. Of course it might, but a Maori Party – Green — Labour government is now the more likely outcome.
  
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  May 3, 2023 8:19am
  - Prince
    
    It seems to me either a rogue poll, or the election is now a beauty contest.
    
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    May 3, 2023 8:25am
    - Asterius Mario
      
      Sadly, if the poll is realised at the election, New Zealand will be wrecked by 2026. Almost certainty there would be an ACT National Government at the 2026 election. However such a victory will be a poisoned chalice. The place will be beyond fixing.
      
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      May 3, 2023 8:31am
      - Simon
        
        “Almost certainty there would be an ACT National Government at the 2026 election”
        
        Wrong. Labo/Gween/MP govt will cancel election law and add a dozen Maori seats. MSM will be given hundreds of millions to promote diversity woke etc. Outside non-msm content will be in effect outlawed.
        
        ACT to be cancelled due to racism. Or their MPs face prosecution for racism. Its a whole new world. Dont think ACT / National will make automatically it in 2026.
        
        Lesson from history the worse it gets the more authoritarian the left get. It falls apart quickly.
        
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        May 3, 2023 8:45am
      - Thought Criminal
        
        Nothing is beyond fixing. Look at what Thatcher inherited in the 70s or what Roger Douglas inherited in 1984.
        
        The worse the left make it the better the case for REAL change.
        
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        May 3, 2023 10:27am
      - septic skeptic
        
        It might not be beyond fixing, but there is a good chance that we get too much brain drain over the next few years to be in a position to fix it. I can’t see our education system producing a workforce capable of higher productivity than thir parents either.
        
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        May 3, 2023 11:06am
      - cmm
        
        Don’t blame Labour (or National). They are just responding to what people vote for. You must blame the voters.
        
        As septic points out, capable people who care and have options are leaving NZ in droves. They can see the writing on the wall. As a result NZ will become increasingly inhabited by people who like a hand out and think the easy way out is to screw the “rich pricks” over.
        
        As we lose capable people, and don’t attract people back, the situation just gets worse and worse.
        
        Pretty much all the professional people I deal with are missing kids who have gone overseas – particularly to Melbourne.
        
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        May 3, 2023 12:06pm
      - rockape
        
        It won’t be wrecked for me. Overseas pension self sufficient lifestyle block, no mortgage. The people who will be hurt are the poorest in NZ as the dollar falls or should I say slumps and the cost of everything rises.
        
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        May 3, 2023 4:17pm
      - Miritu
        
        TC: “The worse the left make it the better the case for REAL change”
        
        I like your optimism
        
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        May 3, 2023 6:46pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Hopefully all those capable Kiwis who have headed offshore will continue to vote to support the rest of us
        
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        May 3, 2023 7:09pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    The problem with ‘resonating with enough voters’ is that now far too many voters are dependent on their life being bankrolled by a state the cares little for them, and a lot for the power that their vote buys. Of course the cost of is unsustainable, and slowly becomes terminal for the society. A quick look at history suggests the final payment of this cost is in blood.
    
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    May 3, 2023 9:56am
    - Thought Criminal
      
      Yep
      
      Necessary bureaucrats
      Consultants
      Criminals
      Gangs
      Bludgers
      
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      May 3, 2023 10:28am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Don’t talk crap, Brunton said Nats at 32% last poll as well, only got Curia the only poll to compare it to since had Nats up at 38% I note the left block down 1.5% but the right only down Acts half a point drop, I refuse to believe the maori party will receive almost 5% on election night, if you want to give up now then that part of the problem, I am still to hear any person down here say they are over the Nats, snd I am only hearing people laughing at Hipkins many because of not knowing what a woman is
    
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    May 3, 2023 10:41am
    - septic skeptic
      
      I agree, I still think Labour will lose big time on the night. Also the watermelons always end up with fewer seats than polling indicates.
      To be honest, I am most concerned about the increase in Winston First. Winston is the one person most responsible for letting this shower run the country. If back, my guess is he will do as always and sell to the highest bidder. Then sleep off hangovers while on overseas jaunts for the next term.
      
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      May 3, 2023 11:14am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        I wonder if that old dog might learn new tricks.
        
        Bill English has departed parliament; & Winston is not blind to the havoc wrecked on the country by Labour.
        
        Could be he’ll have a Second Coming. Or is it Third? Do I hear Fourth?
        
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        May 3, 2023 7:12pm
- Scott
  
  You do have to wonder at the mentality of the NZ voter. Labour still at 30%?! Everything is getting worse under this government. Even the roads are almost impassable, they can’t even fix the roads properly! And don’t get me started on 80kms speed limit on straight highways in the Wairarapa. Crime, inflation, education, health – everything is going downhill under this government.
  
  Sadly many NZers have brought into the cults of cogovernance, climate change and transgender. That can surely be the only explanation for the rise of the Maori party and the Greens.
  
  How can we have a decent country when so many people are so deluded?
  
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  May 3, 2023 8:22am
  - Simon
    
    “You do have to wonder at the mentality of the NZ voter. ”
    
    Blame National. What else can a normal voter think when a normal opposition would confront the iwi mafia running the Labour party. Instead Chris Luxon tried to buy off he iwi cartels with $170 million pa plus whatever else hidden in education, justice etc. (that would be $500 million pa within 3 yrs). That didn’t work.
    
    Labo are only left wing to this extent and ruinous to NZ because National refuse to fight.
    
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    May 3, 2023 8:52am
    - dave_c_
      
      “…because National refuse to fight.”
      I’m of the opinion that National (and other non left wing parties) have been instructed by the ‘hidden hand’ of ‘the current Great Reset’, to tow the line OR ELSE !
      
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      May 3, 2023 10:56am
      - septic skeptic
        
        It’s a logical explanation. Happy to hear alternatives. Anyone got one?
        
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        May 3, 2023 11:16am
      - Che Guava
        
        It’s the venerable tactic: to control the opposition, become the opposition. The single biggest obstacle to significant change is that they are all basically on the same page; if they weren’t, they wouldn’t even be there. This political uniformity is the same almost right across the Western world.
        
        A good analogy is the Big Tech platforms – take YT, as a prime example. With a few rare exceptions (i.e. people who are very careful about what they say and even have to use code words to avoid problems), any so-called “right wing” media who remain on the platform are necessarily approved media who conform to the acceptable paradigm. Crowder, Daily Wire, Dave Rubin, Jordan Peterson are some of the biggest names, but their role is to steer people away from what really matters, and instead to focus on what doesn’t matter and what won’t result in any significant change.
        
        After Trump won in 2016, thereby exposing a systemic weakness and demonstrated discontent with the “orthodoxy,” and in the course of the subsequent years, the near free-for-all of ideas on social media platforms was ended, and strict censorship and purges became the norm.
        
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        May 3, 2023 11:21am
    - cmm
      
      It is not correct to call National non-Left.
      They might be right of Labour, but by world standards National are Left or maybe centre left and Labour are futher left.
      
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      May 3, 2023 12:08pm
  - Asterius Mario
    
    Maybe one explanation is the vast numbers dependent on the state. Both as employees of a bloated public sector and as recipients of different types of welfare. Then there are the recipients myriad types of government grants. Then add in the teachers. The gender activists. The Maori activists. The people who think climate change will end the world. And on and on.
    
    Sure, no sane farmer or trades person or someone working hard in the private sector is going to vote Labour. But how many are there compared to the groups I just outlined?
    
    If I am correct, the ‘floor’ for Labour support might now be 30 percent compared with 23 percent that we saw in the 2011 election under Cunliffe. Now add in the much higher number of people in a panic over climate change. So maybe 12 percent is the new rusted on support for the Greens, bolstered by a stronger communist faction and a rainbow faction. Now add in a resurgent Maori Party driven by folk who really want to end democracy in New Zealand.
    
    In my sketch of the world, New Zealand is a radically transformed place compared to ten years ago. Even five years ago. This transformation means that it is unlikely that National can attract sufficient support to form a government in 2023.
    
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    May 3, 2023 8:52am
    - krazykiwi
      
      “Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader–the barbarians enter Rome.”
      
      — Robert A. Heinlein, To Sail Beyond the Sunset (1987) pg 223
      
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      May 3, 2023 9:27am
      - cmm
        
        Yup.
        
        When most people are productive and very few are sucking on the state then democracy can work because the self-interests of bludgers are not enough to move the needle.
        
        But now we have the situation where 350,000 families are getting an average of $700 per month from WFF.
        
        There are now over 270k working age people getting the benefit. Then a bunch more getting hardship grants, accomodation grants etc.
        
        Then the people that are “working” are often heavily dependent on the gravy puddle too: government employees(450,000) , tertiary education (50,000), NGOs, media,…
        
        That’s out of a working-age population of around 3 million over half depend directly on the taxpayer.
        
        And they vote. Guess which way?
        
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        May 3, 2023 12:30pm
      - Burtland
        
        The tipping point edges closer – soon we wont be able to vote it out.
        Then it will be time to leave.
        
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        May 3, 2023 4:41pm
  - Rusty
    
    @Scott
    
    The short answer is because people in NZ and the rest of the western world are turning their backs on God.
    
    Can you think of one person in either the Labour or Greens party who claim to be christians or at least respect christian principles?
    
    Its the same with many average NZers.
    
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    May 3, 2023 8:52am
    - septic skeptic
      
      I see it very differently. We have elevated Maori religion to equate to science. Meanwhile science has been reduced to the role advertising agencies used to fill – being a paid propagandist for the government or corporate narrative.
      
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      May 3, 2023 9:55am
    - Ehlana
      
      Our society is as virtuous as the people in it. Thomas Campbell, Scottish poet, once asked:
      “What are monuments of bravery,
      Where no public virtues bloom?
      What avail in lands of slavery,
      Trophied temples, arch, and tomb?”
      
      It seems very apt today.
      
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      May 3, 2023 9:58am
    - riffer
      
      No, that’s not it.
      
      History has shown that religion has been associated far more with bad deeds than good.
      
      Religion would be fine if people actually followed the teachings of their religion. But humans don’t appear to be, collectively, that smart.
      
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      May 3, 2023 10:04am
      - Ehlana
        
        riffer, I’m not sure that’s actually true. Recorded and studied history tends to be about rulers and their machinations for power, often cloaked in seemingly benign religion or philosophy. But most history is actually the unrecorded lives of ordinary people. I suspect the progress we have made to date is due to their choices to do the right thing, often strengthened by their faith.
        
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        May 3, 2023 11:38am
      - Matt Long
        
        Whose history Riffer?
        A non- biased one I would hope.
        
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        May 3, 2023 12:08pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        “History has shown”
        
        A bit like “scientists say”?
        
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        May 3, 2023 2:39pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Relevant meme”.
      
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      May 3, 2023 10:11am
      - riffer
        
        I don’t see the connection. Are you saying that identity politics is a direct result of the decline of religion in the western world? If so, I disagree.
        
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        May 3, 2023 10:40am
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        riffer, twice in one day I agree with you! The rise in identity politics is a hard left phenomenon. Group identity is everything v individualism.
        
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        May 3, 2023 11:26am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        It’s pretty clear one thing religion does generally do well is to prevent the complete insanity that woke ideology produces. Yes, I know, there are small numbers of batty sub-sects that try to shoehorn wokeness into various religions (in complete violation of the main texts).
        
        Note: I’m agnostic (as in “it’s all pretty much a mystery as far as I can see thus far”)
        
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        May 3, 2023 2:43pm
    - Tony Stuart
      
      There are plenty of Christians in Labour, most of whom are of Pasifika heritage.
      
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      May 3, 2023 11:28am
      - Matt Long
        
        There are many in Labour who claim to be Christian while supporting an anti Christian agenda.
        
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        May 3, 2023 12:10pm
  - Keith White
    
    They’re not all deluded – they’re voting for Peter who will rob Paul ever more vigorously, to put more unearned money in their unproductive pockets to fund them to lie around on the couch in daytime, play videogames and watch the idiot tube in the evenings, and breed more tax-sucking ferals at night.
    
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    May 3, 2023 8:53am
  - I remember when
    
    Scott:
    And how much of the 80kms speed limit allows even that at present.
    
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    May 3, 2023 9:26am
  - Ruawai
    
    Once they have sucked all the money out of us they will realise too late they have killed the goose.
    
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    May 3, 2023 9:42am
  - sirknz
    
    Apart from the roads, violent crime, youth crime, the splitting of the country across racial lines, the cost of living, the increase in government debt, the increase in consultants, the massive increase in public sector workers, the poverty, the poorly implemented policy that has led to cost increases everywhere, the blowout in people waiting for emergency housing, the deceptive policies, the crooked statistics, and the lies from the various ministers and MPs, things aren’t that bad.
    
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    May 3, 2023 9:47am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    But if labour are at 38% after the chip bounce how are they now at 30% Nats have been well above 32% on all other polls including the most recent the Curia poll for TPU, where is the rest of the vote going
    
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    May 3, 2023 10:53am
  - Burtland
    
    the polls point to the deluded being women under 50
    
    they are the soft targets manipulated by the agenda, Cindy brought them there
    and they are the media
    the be kind, be fair, fix the climate, be nice to LGBT, the influencers, the celebrities, the Blind Date shit TV, womens rugby soccer cricket boxing – all for the deluded
    
    unsurprisingly theyre also confused – over 50% believe we’re heading in the wrong direction
    
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    May 3, 2023 10:55am
- Nickc2
  
  Only if you believe in polls.
  
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  May 3, 2023 8:50am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Results depend on who was asked and where it is done.
  I have no idea how the data is gained. Nobody has ever rang me in my life!
  
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  May 3, 2023 9:01am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    To be fair Steve, they probably saw your postings here & just completed the questionnaire for you.
    
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    May 3, 2023 7:17pm
- Grunter
  
  NZ, and more broadly all western societies are now so woke, broken, racist and debt ridden they are already beyond repair. It is going to take a full collapse over the next 5-10 yrs to rid us of the rot. The woke socialists will fall fast and hard if they are the govt. Never to be in power again (maybe…..?)
  
  Let the cleansing begin…….
  
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  May 3, 2023 9:24am
  - riffer
    
    Like most things, societal change seems to have a kind of pendulum effect. It never shifts to a better way at once. We get these extreme swings, and eventually things settle down. Like many pandemic times before, crazy shit came out of this one.
    Humans might be crazy and messed up but we seem to find a way through. This time will be no different.
    
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    May 3, 2023 10:06am
    - Burtland
      
      yeah but whats the period of the pendulum – for a trip into hard socialism it appears to be over a century – witness Ukraine
      
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      May 3, 2023 4:52pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  Don’t be a poll-aholic. There’s only one poll that counts, and it’s in October.
  
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  May 3, 2023 10:33am
- blue collar
  
  Bullshit .
  Labour are gone . In a god damned landslide .
  Don’t be so gullible
  
  Polls .
  Meh …..
  
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  May 3, 2023 6:57pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Vaping vaping vaping – oh look, a squirrel.
What the hell are the Govt up to now?
Vaping is clearly a diversion.
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May 3, 2023 8:02am
- riffer
  
  Steve, everything is a diversion. When the news is entertainment, and clicks are everything, and you are competing for attention with a million other things, everything has to be the latest “shock horror end of the world!” thing.
  
  Perspective, man. Perspective.
  
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  May 3, 2023 10:08am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    For once riffer, I agree with you. Though reporting news stories without fear or favour still has a place as opposed to reporting the reporters opinion.
    
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    May 3, 2023 11:24am
Matt Long

There’s clear evidence that coming from a single parent home with rotating sperm donors sets kids up for a life of low achievement and crime, so why does the government choose to promote this?
https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/money/300866670/sole-parents-benefit-rules-make-it-terrifying-to-get-into-a-relationship
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May 3, 2023 8:06am
- Matt Long
  
  Social policy needs to be set so that
  a. People in paid employment are far better off than those depending on tax paid welfare,
  And b. People providing stable family relationships for children are better rewarded than those who are not.
  With a clear incentivised pathway to get from broken to stable and employed.
  
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  May 3, 2023 8:13am
  - riffer
    
    yeah, that’s all well and good, but you still have those people who don’t fit that path.
    So you need policy to deal with that.
    And our society frowns on us shooting or gassing them, so we have to give them a helping hand or else they create massive problems for the rest of society.
    Free will… it’s not all it’s cracked up to be.
    And some people do quite well out of single parent families. So it’s not just that. There have to be other factors at play.
    We used to have a society where one person could look after an entire family on their wages. Then women won the right to freedom and work (and mostly, that was a good thing). But it came with unintended consequences. And one of those was that our society became conditioned to the concept of it taking two wages to support a family.
    So even if we can incentivise people to obtain gainful employment we still have the issue of it’s not enough to support a family well and allow the time to actually raise a family well.
    This isn’t just a matter of “these people don’t try hard enough”. Society is stacked against a lot of them. Fix that issue, and you fix a lot of the issues around crime, mental health and good parenting.
    So how do we do it? Buggered if I know. Everybody has a different opinion.
    
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    May 3, 2023 10:15am
    - krazykiwi
      
      “so we have to give them a helping hand”
      
      Quite so, riffer. The most historically successful way of doing this is to stop trying to protect people from the consequences of their poor decisions under the guise of kindness (when this is really extending power over the ‘protected’)
      
      Government’s pan-generational efforts to provide this protection have created agency-sapping dependency on a state that does not end well for individuals, and will not end well for society.
      
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      May 3, 2023 10:27am
    - krazykiwi
      
      I should respond to the question “So how do we do it?”. I suggest we need a change in philosophy thus:
      
      1. Promote ideals like effort, thrift, resourcefulness, the value of community, personal agency; and,
      
      2. Banish the state from the failure amelioration business; and,
      
      3. Allow people to fail
      
      Then step back, and watch society heal itself.
      
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      May 3, 2023 10:33am
      - riffer
        
        And when people fail? And we have violence on the streets, and burglaries, robberies, and all sorts of mayhem?
        
        I guess we are back to the gas and the guns again…
        
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        May 3, 2023 10:42am
      - krazykiwi
        
        Non sequiturs much? The inference that when people fail they become violent, and violence will end up being dealt with by gas chambers and machine guns is absurd.
        
        I fail. Every day, in fact. This morning I failed to get out of bed early enough to commute to the city on my bike and as a result I’m less fit that I’d like to be. I will fix that. I also failed to speak supportively to one of my staff as I need to get to another meeting. I will fix that, too.
        
        Returning to your non sequitur, violence of the type you mention is most likely the consequence of 1000’s of little otherwise inconsequential failures that have been left unaddressed over time. Individuals need to develop agency to see this pattern, just as they need to see examples of how others are dealt to by the law when lashing out happens.
        
        I stand by my assertion that letting people fail and experience negative consequences in the small things build strong character for most.
        
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        May 3, 2023 2:53pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Riffer – “And when people fail? And we have violence on the streets, and burglaries, robberies, and all sorts of mayhem?”
        
        Please explain how your scenario varies from the regular driveby shootings, ramraiding & derelicts lying in the street in their own excrement that currently describes our major city?
        
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        May 3, 2023 7:23pm
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      “We used to have a society where one person could look after an entire family on their wages”. Yes riffer, but we used to have a society where people paid for whatever they bought with cash. So no cash, no goods or services. We used to have a society where you could literally build your own house, where not everyone had a TV. Or electric oven. Or washing machine. We used to have a society where if you couldn’t afford the power bill, you heated the house with an open fire and lit candles. If you couldn’t afford petrol for the car, you biked to work. We used to have a society where people didn’t have a sook that they couldn’t go on a family holiday every year. Now we have bene’s that expect to have a TV with Sky, a car that they can drive around whenever, wherever they like, the latest iPhone and iPad, a decent holiday, a nice house (paid for by taxpayers), be able to go to the pictures, the pub, have a splash on the horses and eat takeaways.
      It’s not that you can’t bring up a family on one wage these days, it’s that most want more than they can afford.
      
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      May 3, 2023 11:34am
    - Matt Long
      
      We don’t need any magic solutions, first step is to lift payments for stable families. We have to be prepared to spend more initially to stop the decline in society.
      Both parents having to work is the result of cultural expectations that have resulted in inflation of desirable assets like housing, and the parents no better off.
      Again, if we’re prepared to subsidise childcare, a parent should get the same payment to look after her or his own child at home.
      
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      May 3, 2023 11:43am
  - krazykiwi
    
    “And b. People providing stable family relationships for children are better rewarded than those who are not.”
    
    Arguably those families are already better rewarded: They have learned that effort and personal agency lead to life choices and happiness.
    
    What we must do is stop rewarding behaviours that are detrimental to society – idleness, dependency, and envy.
    
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    May 3, 2023 10:39am
- Keith White
  
  The feral offspring will reliably vote for more of the same.
  
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  May 3, 2023 8:53am
  - riffer
    
    You see? Thais is a classic example. Judgment from a position of complete and utter ignorance of the situation. Comparing somebody else’s problems to your own when you come from a totally different place.
    Is it a lack of empathy? A lack of understanding of other’s situations? Or is it just that you just lack common decency?
    Sigh… it’s not helpful at all.
    
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    May 3, 2023 10:18am
    - Phronesis
      
      It’s a broad generalisation that is firmly based on statistical facts.
      
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      May 3, 2023 10:31am
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      Social welfare, once seen the solution to society’s ills, has long been a cause of it.
      Intergenerational welfare, and state-provided homes effectively for life is not the answer.
      It is the trap.
      
      I also might ponder how many of the massed off-road bike riders terrorising people in Auckland lately are living in homes provided by the state.
      Welfare is also going to be linked to gangs and ram-raids perpetrators.
      And is is not financial “poverty”, when they post their crimes to Tik Tok (or afford those off road bikes).
      It is a moral and (as an agnostic I say metaphorically) a spiritual poverty.
      
      Lack of aspiration to engage with society in a productive way, or climb the ladder.
      Hands out, and in the other hand is a hammer.
      ‘Kindness’ has spectacularly failed.
      
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      May 3, 2023 10:49am
      - sirknz
        
        I would wager that those offroad bikes were not acquired by fair means…
        
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        May 3, 2023 2:21pm
    - Burtland
      
      MSDs expected future years on a benefit is currently 12.4 years and rising, despite low unemployment.
      
      try Lindsay Mitchells blog for the only meaningful commentary on welfare in NZ https://lindsaymitchell.blogspot.com/
      
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      May 3, 2023 5:03pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “Single parents say tough benefit rules are stopping them from entering relationships.”
  Sounds like bullshit. It is stopping Women being paid by the Taxpayer to make babies.
  
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  May 3, 2023 9:05am
  - Matt Long
    
    Relationships is different to casual sex and resulting welfare packages.
    
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    May 3, 2023 9:28am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The Women just see the guy as a golden egg, a donor. Once pregnant the guy is gone.
      Two reasons, she doesn’t want a relationship, he doesn’t want maintenance.
      
      5 3
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      May 3, 2023 10:33am
- Loddenthinks
  
  What they really mean is “taking responsibility for your life and those you bring into the world is terrifying for people used to getting handouts.”
  
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  May 3, 2023 10:34am
  - Matt Long
    
    Of course, they are incentivised to see the government as their permanent provider, and fear of having that provision cut off ensures they make no attempt to improve their situation.
    And they become reliable socialist voters.
    It’s the Regressive road to permanent power.
    
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    May 3, 2023 11:50am
    - rockape
      
      Once NZ was just the gay capital of the World ,now we are also the bludging capital.
      
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      May 3, 2023 4:29pm
Yvette

After reading this, you may feel like a drink (and sit-down)
and unless it is internationally sourced plonk, your drink will at some stage involve New Zealand freshwater …

Hiding in Plain Sight – the Real Agenda
Last week, Waatea News talkback host John Tamihere interviewed the Chairman of the Waikato-based Tainui iwi, former MP Tuku Morgan, about the future of freshwater.

It was clear from their on-air ‘chat’, that as far as iwi leaders are concerned, Labour’s Three Waters reforms are just a stepping-stone towards Maori ‘ownership’ of freshwater.
John Tamihere: “We own the water”

Tuku Morgan: “Clearly, that’s the next issue to be addressed… The ownership of water is probably the most important issue of our time … There are two ways we can do it. Litigate in the courts or go head-to-head in a set of negotiations in terms of the Crown and its Treaty partners – iwi and hapu around the country. We are preparing right now for that… As we settle Three Waters and work with the Crown to manage waterways and get certainly and confidence going forward, then we’ll push on with the most important issue to face Maoridom – the ownership of water.”

They plan to go after the electricity companies, with John Tamihere questioning the timing: “To what extent do you have a conversation with the generators on the Waikato to say, ‘times up, there’s got to be a levy here’?”

Tuku Morgan acknowledged that time was coming – and he went on to mention meeting the Chair of Ngai Tahu and discussing their legal claim for freshwater ownership: “So they are in the Courts now… We will get there, there is no doubt about that… If one of the iwi make up the ground we are pushing then all of us will benefit.”
In other words, a win for one iwi over freshwater rights will become a precedent for all iwi.

… Tuku Morgan and John Tamihere have made it very clear that if the Maori Party is the kingmaker after the election, they will not settle for anything less than full ownership of New Zealand’s freshwater.
– Dr Muriel Newman, New Zealand Centre for Political Research, Sunday, April 30, 2023
https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2023/04/nzcpr-newsletter-hiding-in-plain-sight.html

It would be bit of a bugger, if non-Maori New Zealanders had to import bottled water from China.

And laugh-ye-not – my stained ttmber cabinet under the semi big-arse television came from China but is of New Zealand pine, and despite the carbon feetprint, was cheaper than any locally made equivalent
(Thinks: Does James Shaw deduct this stuff off his totals of the sequestered carbon he thinks he has sent out of the country to be someone else’s problem of eventual disposal?)

But this detracts from from the matter above. water.

The overturning of the landmark US Supreme Court decision on abortion, Roe v Wade registered in New Zealand as an opportunity for media lightweights to go attack Luxon (again) even although he said “sbortion here was sorted” and he was not pregnant and ain’t planning to do anything weird about it.

But “When the sage points at the moon, look not at just the finger”
What New Zealand missed was that “abortion” is simply not in the American Constitution.
That was the flip side of the Supreme Court judgement

Just as “Maori ownership of non-Maori water utilities”, “co-governance” and the bloody word “Aoteoroa” are none of them in the Treaty of Waitangi –
the original version, not the 1979s-90s interpretation
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May 3, 2023 8:09am
- Matt Long
  
  Yes, Maori elite ownership of water is an issue the opposition could really get traction with, I wonder why they are not trying?
  
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  May 3, 2023 8:53am
  - Keith White
    
    There’s only one uniparty political class. Who do what pays them well, and to heck with the rest of us. There are rare and honourable exceptions, but they are exceptions.
    
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    May 3, 2023 8:55am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It is a Coup, and most New Zealanders just don’t know or don’t want to know.
    They will know when it is too late. Labour are selling out Country to Elite Maori.
    Democracy will be gone and the ruling will be the Elite Maori Tyranny.
    Ignore ate your peril.
    
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    May 3, 2023 9:12am
    - riffer
      
      Elite maori tyranny. Elite white overseas or elite asian overseas ownership tyranny.
      
      It’s all the bloody same. Whether its owned by maori or owned by an overseas corporation its still gonna cost you money.
      
      The big difference here is a lot of people here seem to be much more scared of maori than they are of faceless overseas corporations.
      
      Why are you so scared of maori folks?
      
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      May 3, 2023 10:21am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I like our beautiful Country riffer.
        I do not want New Zealand turned into New Zimbabwe or South Venezuela.
        
        13 3
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        May 3, 2023 10:25am
      - riffer
        
        Nor do I mate.
        
        But I also don’t want to see it sold down the river (pun intended) to a faceless corporation.
        
        Both options seem poor choices to me.
        
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        May 3, 2023 10:43am
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        Riffer – false dichotomy.
        It is not as binary as being two shitty choices.
        
        Water being owned by nobody makes more sense, and rivers or lakes managed by governance which MAY include Maori, but the pipes or any infrastructure are 100% not owned by Maori.
        
        The claims to own water is just a way to monetise it.
        It is only barely more sensible than owning the wind.
        
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        May 3, 2023 1:34pm
      - Taieri
        
        Water being owned by nobody makes more sense, and rivers or lakes managed by governance which MAY include Maori, but the pipes or any infrastructure are 100% not owned by Maori.
        ————–
        
        Owned by Maori? Collectively or individually? If “collectively” then what matters, is, who actually controls it? Is it Hone Tangata from Wop-wop? Or John Tamihere? Or Stephen Gerard O’Regan? And on whose authority?
        
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        May 3, 2023 3:52pm
      - Taieri
        
        Water being owned by nobody makes more sense, and rivers or lakes managed by governance which MAY include Maori, but the pipes or any infrastructure are 100% not owned by Maori.
        ————–
        
        Owned by Maori? Collectively or individually? If “collectively” then what matters, is, who actually controls it? Is it Hone Tangata from Wop-wop? Or John Tamihere? Or Stephen Gerard O’Regan? And on whose authority?
        
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        May 3, 2023 3:55pm
    - Drone
      
      @Steve it’s not selling out, it is managed transition. Designed by psychologists to reduce the possibility of rejection by the voting punter. Labour/Green/Maori will win the next election and Maori will be the power broker. However, in 2023 the public won’t accept a Tribal leader as prime minister so Chris Hipkins will be allowed to retain the role as a puppet for the real tribal government. Come 2026 there won’t be an election as you know it, power will be transferred in a more physical manner..
      
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      May 3, 2023 10:22am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        More physical? Yes it could be.
        Best avoided if National/Act can take power in Oct.
        
        4 1
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        May 3, 2023 10:27am
      - riffer
        
        A National/Act government worries me, due to the potential for societal conflict. Some of this wouldn’t be their fault – there is an expectation that has been built up by the current government that if turned on its head would result in the potential for violence.
        
        I fear for further sale of the country’s assets “to balance the books quicker”.
        
        I do not relish the idea of a GST hike to 20% so that those at the top have to pay even less tax.
        I do not like the thought of a potential civil race war.
        
        The problem for me is some things I think National do well. Some things I think Labour do well. And some things either party do really badly.
        
        So – like many – I reckon there’s no choice for me. Act doesn’t appeal – too centred on individual at the expense of general society. Greens turn me off completely with their identity bullshit.
        
        TOP – maybe, but they aren’t getting any traction.
        and all the rest of the parties are crazy motherfuckers.
        
        I am truly screwed. I seem to be of the age (56) that political parties don’t give a shit about. Too well off, too straight, too white for the left, and not rich enough or conservative enough for the right. I pay my taxes, obey the law (well, except the bloody stupid ones) and I have raised a bunch of well adjusted kids contributing to society. I am married, and not too crazy.
        
        Sigh…
        
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        May 3, 2023 10:50am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Best go to http://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi
  It is all in there. I wish more people would get involved in the movement. Go to the meetings and learn.
  
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  May 3, 2023 9:08am
  - riffer
    
    Who are these mythical “Elite Maori” that Julian is always going on about?
    
    And what really is the difference between elite maori and elite pakeha?
    
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    May 3, 2023 10:52am
    - Burtland
      
      elite maori …
      
      the Dames and the Sirs
      the Aotearoans of the Year
      the Billion dollar Tribal charities that pay no tax
      the representatives appointed to your council
      the consultants on co-governance and He Pua Pua
      the ones who tweek democracy in NZ
      the ones that create Aotearoa, Te Whatever
      the one thats invented Matariki
      
      the talkers
      but not the workers
      
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      May 3, 2023 11:20am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Good analogy.
        
        8 0
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        May 3, 2023 11:58am
      - double d
        
        Infesting Koru clubs up and down the country…
        
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        May 3, 2023 1:46pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Have a look at Parliament. It is not just the Maori Party, all Parties.
      The Tribal Leaders – the ones who divert the handouts for themselves. The Maori on the street gets nothing. A payment to Tainui bought the Maori King a flash car and property alterations.
      Tukuroirangi Morgan, John Tamihere, Willie Jackson, Nanaia Mahuta, Hone Harawira, David Rankin (he is a good guy)
      You get the idea, the Maori hierarchy. According to Julian Batchelor there are about 1000 who fit into that hierarchy.
      
      Elite Maori keeps everything, the people on the street get nothing.
      
      Elite Pakeha share. Sure the Elite are richer, but even the poor have opportunities.
      
      Do you know what the whiteman did for transport in the 1800s? Roads and bridges. Maori had never even seen a wheel back then.
      
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      May 3, 2023 11:57am
- Kurious Kiwi
  
  Luxon needs to get on the front foot and start a public debate about this right now. It is a coup well under way with Labour support but the MSM are keeping it away from public view.
  
  Labour want to own and tax water , own and tax Hydro power. At that point they effectively control NZ.
  
  So Luxon must start talking about it loudly and publicly and force Labour to either rule it out ( and start a war with TPM ) or be seen to be enabling this takeover.
  
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  May 3, 2023 10:55am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    You mean like Seymour is doing?
    
    Why do people think a subject is only as important as the size of the party whose leader is asking the questions?
    
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    May 3, 2023 12:34pm
Tony Stuart

If you were at Parliament and suddenly took ill, would you rather a screeching Dr Ayesha Verrall or a calm and collected Dr Shane Reti came to your aid?

https://ondemand.parliament.nz/parliament-tv-on-demand/?itemId=232208
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May 3, 2023 8:10am
- Mike
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Female politicians are frequently described as ‘screeching’, or the many other stereotypical epithets beloved of elderly males.
  
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  May 3, 2023 8:12am
  - Gravelroad
    
    For once I agree with you, Mike.
    Some people on here moan that women allegedly don’t/won’t support the National Party – then criticise the way women look or speak.
    Paternalism is not the sole prerogative of the elderly either.
    I have several women of varying ages in my family.
    You want their vote?
    Treat them with some respect.
    
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    May 3, 2023 8:50am
    - Mike
      
      Indeed.
      And see Simon below – ‘Just an emotional woman’, etc, plus pdm – ‘Verrall the Banshee’
      
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      May 3, 2023 8:58am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Watch the video Gravelroad…
      
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      May 3, 2023 11:29am
      - Gravelroad
        
        I did.
        Dr Verrall came across to me as stressed and struggling and she looked unwell.
        But I listened to what she had to say and didn’t judge her for the delivery of what she had to say.
        Then I made up my mind as to whether I supported her statements or not.
        
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        May 3, 2023 1:06pm
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Yes Mike, but if the cap fits, those women who screech should wear it.
    
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    May 3, 2023 8:52am
    - Gravelroad
      
      Or you could just settle down and listen to what they are saying – instead of criticising the way they are saying it………..too hard?
      
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      May 3, 2023 9:17am
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        Screeching women can be safely ignored Gravel. No one with any gravitas needs resort to screeching.
        
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        May 3, 2023 9:40am
  - Matt Long
    
    Some woman make their point with dignity, some are a pleasure to listen to, some shriek, National’s number 2 for example.
    Some men rant, like Angry Andy. While some voices and styles are unpleasant often the worst of them neither shriek no rant.
    
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    May 3, 2023 9:05am
  - Ghost
    
    You are trying to twist this into something it isn’t. Has nothing to do with her being a female, everything to do with her delivery in parliament, which Tony would point out if it was a male doing it as well.
    
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    May 3, 2023 9:09am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Correct. Dr Verrall was on the defensive, and was lashing out. Dr Reti kept his cool, and dissected Dr Verrall in a very forensic manner without raising either a sweat or his voice.
      
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      December 3, 2022 10:06am
  - Lee C
    
    Nice use of ageist sexist stereotyping to apparently establish your pro-feminine cred, Mike.
    
    Ironically:
    
    Has it ever occurred to you that many ‘female politicians’ would see random guys taking it upon themselves to ‘defend’ them as both sexist and patronising?
    
    .
    
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    May 3, 2023 9:45am
    - Mike
      
      I wasn’t ‘defending’ her – just pointing out the casual misogyny of one of Kiwiblog’s older commenters.
      
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      May 3, 2023 9:53am
      - Ghost
        
        You know exactly what tony was talking about, just you’re normal attempt to twist something to smear someone.
        
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        May 3, 2023 11:10am
  - double d
    
    Never saw that coming Mike – criticism of a female resulting n accusations of stereotyping…..
    
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    May 3, 2023 1:49pm
- Simon
  
  Verrall vs Reti? Just an emotional woman. Verrall types is why police shouldnt arm women for eg. Just too emotional. Common problem.
  
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  May 3, 2023 8:15am
  - riffer
    
    You Sir, are a fucking idiot. I sincerely hope your wife (if you have one) has you on strict rations. Because you deserve it. What a contemptuous misogynist generalising comment. You arse.
    
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    May 3, 2023 10:23am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      In my head I’m imagining you screeching that, really loudly
      
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      May 3, 2023 12:36pm
- Hollyfield
  
  It also looks like Dr Reti used sign language as well as English to thank the Speaker when he rose.
  
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  May 3, 2023 8:22am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Strangely enough, that is just ‘manners.’ The hand gesture of receiving permission from the Speaker.
    
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    May 3, 2023 9:32am
  - MCōs
    
    And he sings well too
    
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    May 3, 2023 10:47am
- Ghost
  
  Can we first make sure that dr Megan Woods and dr David Clark understand they are not medical doctors and don’t come running to help?
  
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  May 3, 2023 8:24am
- pdm
  
  Inv.
  
  Meet Verrall the Banshee!!!
  
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  May 3, 2023 8:45am
  - Paulus
    
    Sadly Verrall, who came from the Ministry of Health where she was a Infectious Disease specialist, during the epidemic is well out of her depth, and I wonder whether she would rather be back in the MOH than as a Labour Minister in this disgraceful Government.
    
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    May 3, 2023 1:46pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Verrall just doing her balls. I don’t think Shane Reti would her up enough. Verrall is a candidate for a thermonuclear meltdown.
  
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  May 3, 2023 9:21am
Maggie Pie

Just what the Maori Party needs…another bully.
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May 3, 2023 8:15am
- emmess
  
  From their point of view: You say that like it’s a bad thing
  
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  May 3, 2023 8:34am
- pdm
  
  Maggie – Whaitiri gives them a bully hat trick with probably more bullies to come oc=ver from Labour.
  
  Does anyone think the bullies in chief – Mahuta and McAleese will go as well?
  
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  May 3, 2023 8:47am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    One of the girls from tennis was saying te Labor Party is a hotbed of sexual-tension.
    Some things she’s told us are quite shocking.
    
    What about this from Meka’s maiden speech…..
    
    ‘To my partner Kiri Allan, your unconditional love and support know no end. Thank you for all that you are and for all that you will be’
    
    Honestly, who would know what’s going on? Whatever it is, you get the feeling it’s all about them first….. and the country second.
    
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    May 3, 2023 9:05am
    - A deplorable
      
      Meka’s defection is probably utu. She was publicly shamed and permanently demoted, she will have been nursing a grudge.
      
      20 1
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      May 3, 2023 9:21am
      - Matt Long
        
        Ex, Kiri, gets promoted over her and a fresh young partner.
        
        13 1
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        May 3, 2023 9:45am
      - Keith White
        
        When a racist trougher thinks her trough is running dry, he easy way out and up is to double-down on racism and trough harder.
        
        In her own words, she’s not in parliament for the public good but for one race only: “we as Māori have a responsibility to not others, but we.”
        
        12 2
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        May 3, 2023 10:39am
      - I remember when
        
        Is Meka Whaitiri’s decision much bigger than many are recognising at present.
        Has the influence Maori members have been able to exert within the Labour government helped them understand the immense advantage the Maori seats give them.
        It means that any legislation needs seven more votes for a majority if the Maori seat members are opposed.
        By Maori dividing the Maori seats, by voting Ti Pati Maori, there is even the chance of greater influence on policy.
        They don’t need 51% to defeat legislation only enough votes to prevent it.
        Will the Maori seats result in the death of MMP.
        
        5 1
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        May 3, 2023 1:31pm
    - fightingtemeraire
      
      So Kiri is on to the third “partner”!!!!
      
      9 5
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      May 3, 2023 9:32am
      - riffer
        
        Your point is?
        
        4 7
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        May 3, 2023 10:53am
      - Ghost
        
        People fall out of love, move on and find love again, good on her. She could have just given up when she got cancer, but she fought on and is living her life. How many partners someone has had is no one’s businesses.
        
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        May 3, 2023 11:00am
      - Mike
        
        It’s just more casual misogyny, Ghost. Female politicians are always subjected to more insinuations about their personal relationships than their male counterparts.
        
        3 3
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        May 3, 2023 12:22pm
Asterius Mario

Interesting example of equivocation from National on the EV subsidy changes announced yesterday. Yes they condemned the increased taxes on utes. However they can’t quite bring themselves to say that they will axe EV subsidies.

“Brown says the party will work with the vehicle importation industry to put in place “sensible long term policies which reduce our emissions while allowing Kiwis to continue getting the vehicles they need”.

https://autotalk.co.nz/clean-car-changes-hitting-farmers-and-tradies-says-national/

Of course we are none the wiser about what these “sensible long term policies to reduce emissions” might be. I can’t escape the notion that a National Government would “do EV subsidies better”. What that might look like is a mystery.
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May 3, 2023 8:27am
- RoboRob
  
  Nailed it. I am pretty sure National are opposed to market meddling subsidies BUT their words are political speak leaving me, and obviously you, wondering what they really think.
  
  I have said it before, its not about strict policy its about beliefs. We know what Maori party, Green party and labour believe. Does national believe in small government, no meddling etc they never actually say it anymore.
  
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  May 3, 2023 8:56am
  - cmm
    
    ” I am pretty sure National are opposed to market meddling…”
    I am not sure National remember what they are opposed to.
    Every time an MP opens their mouth about something, Luxon shuts them down and makes them withdraw what they said.
    
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    May 3, 2023 9:33am
  - Matt Long
    
    National transport minister Simon Bridges first introduced subsidies for EVs, that’s why initially I thought he was unsuited to be leader.
    Unfortunately National’s leader stocks have plummeted since then.
    
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    May 3, 2023 9:33am
  - Piniwi
    
    But and there is a but when we must acknowledge the elephant in the room and that is when will the time come to make EV and Tonka toys start paying their share of providing and maintaining the roads. It is touted that 20% of new vehicle purchases in the last 12 months were EV’s. Apart from the fact that Tesla buyers grabbed the biggest portion of subsides dished out it rapidly becoming essential these overweight perambulators starting paying RUC levies. Again we see another Labour policy with not one but a collection of unintended consequences. As we know EV’s end up somewhere operating emission free but leave a heavy trail of emissions somewhere else along the way to ma showroom near you.
    
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    May 3, 2023 11:33am
- Master Mariner
  
  Regarding EV subsidies the obvious becomes reality.
  
  https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/e-car-sales-plummet-germany-following-subsidy-cut?mc_cid=575ccfc590&mc_eid=88b4c27cd8
  
  Once people wake up to the idea, That “Carbon Neutral” is just a creative way of transferring emissions from one country too another, Nothing more, Nothing Less.
  
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  May 3, 2023 9:12am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Indonesian coal.
    
    9 0
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    May 3, 2023 9:55am
  - Matt Long
    
    Meanwhile in moron land let’s save the planet by blocking buses.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/rush-hour-traffic-blocked-by-restore-passenger-rail-as-wellington-faces-day-of-protest-action/7EYMOXKBBBB3LBCTNS3KNN46AY/
    
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    May 3, 2023 10:16am
    - Asterius Mario
      
      Try that shit in Singapore and you would be caned, fined and sent to prison for 12 months. Funny how it never happens in Singapore.
      
      13 0
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      May 3, 2023 10:23am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Can we change our name from R. T. Rower to Singapore please?
        
        4 1
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        May 3, 2023 10:36am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Handcuffed around a traffic light pole for a night, again two nights. Double down, they will cry soon.
      
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      May 3, 2023 10:38am
- Drone
  
  Hi @Asterius given that it’s National voters in Remuera that are benefiting most from the Tesla Tax I suspect that National won’t remove it but will increase the EV rebate.
  
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  May 3, 2023 10:32am
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Luxon has clearly told us he’s deeply committed to Net Zero. This means our lives are going to get a whole lot harder. Do not expect that they’re going to make it easy for people to continue to buy their FF vehicle of choice. Expect the opposite.
  Trying (and failing) to achieve Net Zero will be a disaster.
  
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  May 3, 2023 10:50am
Blog-aholic

Ian Wishart makes great commetary on the RSE (relationship and sex education) in the School curriculum. Since 2020 children as young as 5 are being taught they may not be girls or boys but unicorns if they prefer…..I’d drop a link but search him out if you have children because these kids are being brain washed by people who have a vested interest in the washing but not your children.
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May 3, 2023 8:39am
- Nickc2
  
  The next time you see a kid’s classroom on NZTV, look at the walls and you will see many Unicorns of various colours, but predominately pink.
  
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  May 3, 2023 9:27am
- riffer
  
  Amazing.
  
  My childhood was so much more wholesome. Instead of being told I could express myself in any way I wanted I was told I was going to burn in hell for eternity unless I did what I was told, and was strapped or caned every day by arsehole teachers who thought it would help me to become a more obedient well rounded individual.
  
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  May 3, 2023 10:28am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Failure wasn’t it?
    
    8 0
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    May 3, 2023 10:39am
    - riffer
      
      Well, you have a point.
      Unlike some, my response to that was “fuck you I will succeed”.
      
      3 7
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      May 3, 2023 10:55am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Upticks for you. And I guess you did succeed, and so did I.
        My retirement is comfortable. Freehold, 2 vehicles, boat, caravan, and Time!
        Actually I don’t know how I ever found time to work now!
        Off to 3 days in Hawaii then Alaska soon. Hawaii another 3 days on the way back. Hike Diamond Head again.
        
        8 1
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        May 3, 2023 12:05pm
Maggie Pie

Where to for Labors other loose cannons….. Willie and Kiri?
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May 3, 2023 8:42am
- Keith White
  
  Co-Ambassadors to Nauru.
  
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  May 3, 2023 8:56am
Master Mariner

I just wish we could have an open and honest discussion on “Net Zero” as the practicalities are “well” Zero.

What country does this remind you off ?

“Thus, on the one hand, we have states that have taken “courageous” decisions to achieve net zero (there is some debate about its exact definition) by a certain date, even writing this into their laws, and prohibiting the further exploitation of offshore oil and gas fields within their waters. Probe a little deeper into even their policies and much of the emissions which they so deplore will be “exported” to other countries, just to keep their lights on and industries ticking over. Thus, on the one hand, we have states that have taken “courageous” decisions to achieve net zero (there is some debate about its exact definition) by a certain date, even writing this into their laws, and prohibiting the further exploitation of offshore oil and gas fields within their waters. Probe a little deeper into even their policies and much of the emissions which they so deplore will be “exported” to other countries, just to keep their lights on and industries ticking over. Their virtue, it might be thought, is only skin deep.
And,
While bringing the session to an end, Swire’s Germino noted: “There are no zero-emission fuels; there are none. Even with nuclear, unless it is used on the ship, there will be some sort of emission associated with it. So, the only zero-emission ship that will exist in 2050 is a sailing ship without any engine.”
https://splash247.com/maritime-ceo-forum-crystal-balling-ships-in-2030/

And ,

“Like it or not, the Russian invasion of Ukraine has forced many of the outwardly most zealous states into rethinking the practicalities of phasing out hydrocarbons. Russia also has clearly no plan to run down such a vital element in its economy, and while the current main oil producers might be capable of developing post fossil fuel alternative industries, those states which have yet to enjoy their own oil boom will be more than capable of taking up the slack of world demand. So, maybe, among all the rhetoric about “net zero” and carbon neutral industry, the magnitude of the task and the timescales have started to sink in”,

https://www.seatrade-maritime.com/opinions-analysis/fossil-fuel-future
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May 3, 2023 8:48am
- riffer
  
  Good post. Definitely a subject that requires more discussion and thinking, and an ability for those on all sides to put aside their ideology for it.
  
  Both the left and right are failing at this.
  
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  May 3, 2023 10:31am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Stop Making Sense.
    
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    May 3, 2023 12:06pm
nova

Last night on One News, Michael Wood was challenged that more clean car rebates had gone to Tesla owners than Toyota owners. He refuted this and said that Toyota rebates were bigger. Turns out the reporter’s facts were correct, from the start of the scheme in 2021, but Michael decided that the comparison should only be done after the scheme was revised to include hybrids, and in that case, Toyota wins.
But the kicker is that the scheme is being revised to favour Tesla again. From the 1st of July most Toyota hybrids will no longer be covered. Take the 2023 Corolla Hatch GX Hybrid, emissions are 101 g/km, and currently this receives a rebate of $3,418.28. From the 1st of July it will get no rebate at all. This is true for most of the Toyota hybrids, except the Yaris range and PHEVs.
So if Michael thinks that Toyota is a more worthy recipient than Tesla, why is he changing the scheme to favour Tesla?
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May 3, 2023 8:54am
- riffer
  
  Because Teslas are all electric. Hybrids are still predominantly ICE.
  
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  May 3, 2023 10:32am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Labour are no good with numbers.
  
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  May 3, 2023 10:42am
  - riffer
    
    I don’t agree.
    
    Where they have failed, like many other politicans of both sides, is their ability to accurately predict both human behaviour and future events.
    
    That has had a huge impact on that particular policy.
    
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    May 3, 2023 10:56am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Nope. They get caught out with lies all the time.
      They seem to forget we have this internet thingy, we can fact check them.
      Perfect example is Jaspinda. Clueless with numbers. Her lies caught up with her and she headed for the hills!
      
      The difference between a billion and a trillion is three zeros. Zeros have no value so there is no extra cost.
      
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      May 3, 2023 12:11pm
Master Mariner

Let this sink in, A currency backed by commodities, or a currency backed by debt. Interesting times.

“The greenback has become more unreliable for dollarized economies due to rising interest rates regulated by the US Federal Reserve (FED) and the bank’s weaponization of the dollar through financial sanctions.”
And,
“What will be discussed is the expansion of BRICS and the modalities of how this will happen… Thirteen countries have formally asked to join, and another six have asked informally. We are getting applications to join every day,” the South African official told Bloomberg earlier this week.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/5-Oil-Producing-Nations-Ask-To-Join-BRICS-Alliance.html
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May 3, 2023 9:00am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  New Zealand is not on the list.
  Oh, yeah, I forgot. 🙁
  
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  May 3, 2023 12:16pm
I remember when

“We own the water,” John Tamihere.
The Treaty of Waitangi gave Maori the full, exclusive and undisturbed possession of their Lands and Estates, Forests, Fisheries….
Is that because even in 1840 Maori understood that water is only a medium.
Currents in rivers and streams allowed Maori to understand that water is constantly being replaced.
Only in the fresh water lakes and lagoons is there a semblance of permanency with water.
This is possibly why Sir Apirana Nagta made specific mention of them in his Treaty explanation.
Even then they are likely to reduce in size in summer and expand in winter.
They also were aware that rain meant water was available everywhere so ownership was not considered possible.
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May 3, 2023 9:02am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Sir Apirana Ngata is mentioned a lot on the Stop Co-Governance Blog.
  Lots of extracts and items posted.
  
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  May 3, 2023 10:10am
I remember when

How reliable are the statistics regularly presented to show how Maori are disadvantaged.
Officially we have a Maori population of 16-17% -which is self selected.
However, when we are shown results for Maori being in the bottom percentile of health, education performance and attendance, employment, life expectancy, etc., how are Maori identified.
Are there in fact two groups of Maori, those that identify as Maori in the Census and those that are identified in the above figures.
What percentage of Census Maori are identified in the production figures other than the Census.
Are the Health, Education, Employment, etc., figures more likely to represent a smaller group who are most disadvantaged.
None or few of the ‘like the idea of being’ Maori and the advantages sometimes.
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May 3, 2023 9:50am
- Che Guava
  
  Maori are not “disadvantaged” in New Zealand (in fact, in terms of various exclusive dispensations, they have institutional advantage). The reason why their outcomes are so bad is because, on average, they behave in ways that are different to people with better outcomes.
  
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  May 3, 2023 11:40am
- Paulus
  
  Nobody knows how many Maori there are as the previous Census was in many ways incomplete so what figures they have for Maori are tempered by the Department of Statistics to read watever they and those above wanted.
  Show me where there are 17% of the poulation are Maori.
  This years Census appears to be even worse for the Maori returns even with KFC and League Tickets recently offerred.
  We are told that the Immunisation and Vaccination of young children are ridiculously low by any world standards.
  Does this as a comparable ratio relate in any way to the fact the Maori and Pacifica people have not participated in the Census either ?
  
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  May 3, 2023 1:56pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Who else will defect from Labour?

Te Pāti Māori extends invitation to minister Mahuta: ‘If Nanaia feels there’s something awry with the way she was treated, she knows what she can do.’

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/minister-meka-whaitiri-quits-govt-to-become-te-pati-maoris-first-big-name-election-candidate
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May 3, 2023 9:50am
- Littletramp
  
  I’ll say it again – this is Tuku Morgan at play.
  He is going for the lot – if he can get the Maori party holding balance of power, Labour and National will be bowing to the new King (hint – his name ain’t Charles).
  The media and the National party don’t even know the game has started yet.
  This started 30 years ago. The Maori “kids” are now lawyers, local body reps, public servants, influential media, social media influencers, MP’s etc and it’s about to get interesting.
  
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  May 3, 2023 10:11am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Tuku is like the Blackjack player at the Casino counting cards.
    He will know when to hit it.
    
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    May 3, 2023 12:20pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I see many. The 2003 Labour Party is imploding.
  Some will go to the Maori Party, some may just go Independent.
  Michael Joseph Savage is turning in his Bunker at Bastion Point.
  
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  May 3, 2023 10:19am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  She will not go until she has spoken to her cousin who is in London with Chippy.
  
  If TMP wants to get anything done they will have to learn to work with all Parties.
  
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  May 3, 2023 11:08am
Maggy Wassilieff

It looks like the current President of the NZ Labour Party – Jill Day- has no idea what is going on within her party.
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May 3, 2023 9:57am
Maggy Wassilieff

I wonder if the Green Hierarchy is deliberately delaying the investigation into Elizabeth Kerekere in the hope that particular folk will resign from their party.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/131923147/senior-green-members-to-quit-over-dragged-out-elizabeth-kerekere-bullying-investigation
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May 3, 2023 10:00am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Time for a new Political Party?
  The Dropkick Party of Aotearoa.
  
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  May 3, 2023 10:21am
  - riffer
    
    Sadly I tend to agree with you. Time for the Greens to rename as the Mad Wokesters Party, and allow for the creation of an actual Green party.
    Identity politics is a curse. I can’t wait for it’s eventual descent into irrelevance.
    
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    May 3, 2023 10:35am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      re you OK riffer? You agree with me?
      
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      May 3, 2023 10:45am
      - riffer
        
        It does happen some times.
        
        Especially on the subject of identity politics. I am completely over it. Just treat everybody with decency and respect. Don’t be an arse.
        
        Nobody has any more rights than anybody else.
        
        It’s not that hard is it?
        
        I still think David Seymour is a compete muppet though, so don’t worry, we can still disagree. That’s the beautiful thing about free speech and maturity about it. We can completely disagree on some things, agree on others, and not get completely fucked up when somebody says something different.
        
        Some people need to grow up, pull their heads out of their arses and realise that their own particular barrow they are pushing is really irrelevant to greater society.
        
        The sooner we purge woke from the world the better. Then we can get back to the important stuff.
        
        11 3
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        May 3, 2023 11:00am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        “It’s not that hard is it?”
        Never been hard for me. Not a man of faith but I live by my own set of morals.
        
        4 1
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        May 3, 2023 12:27pm
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Well, Metiria Turei was a member of the McGillicuddy Serious Party before she joined the Greens, so there is a precedent…
      
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      May 3, 2023 11:32am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      They are “progressive”, like terminal cancer.
      
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      May 3, 2023 1:56pm
Maggie Pie

LEST WE FORGET.

In the event of a full-blown war with Russia….. I can understand why Aotearoa New Zealand would be best to remain neutral these days.
Just saying.

https://rt.com/russia/575653-kamchatka-lgbtq-deportation-germany/
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May 3, 2023 10:01am
- Che Guava
  
  That’s what a serious country looks and acts like.
  
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  May 3, 2023 11:35am
- rockape
  
  What if it was a full blown invasion of NZ. Would you like help?
  
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  May 3, 2023 11:48am
cas

I wonder if Michael Wood is trying to destabilise Hipkins?
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May 3, 2023 10:04am
- Keith White
  
  A Fever of Tilth?
  
  5 1
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  May 3, 2023 10:40am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Hope so. The more backstabbing the better.
  Fight you bastards.
  
  6 1
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  May 3, 2023 10:46am
Tony Stuart

It’s no longer just “media speculation”; Te Pati Maori has confirmed that Meka Whaitiri is indeed transitioning to them at the election.

Where does that leave Labour? Surely Whaitiri must now be sacked as a Minister forthwith, and be suspended from the Labour Party caucus. But does that come with a risk of other MP’s revolting, and Labour losing its majority in the House? Could this be the excuse Hipkins has been looking for to go early?

Shit just got real!
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May 3, 2023 10:15am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Somebody will have to pull the plug today in NZ ….
  
  Will it be the Deputy PM or the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party?
  
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  May 3, 2023 10:21am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Does that make her Trans? ….Transpolitical?
  
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  May 3, 2023 10:22am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Snap Election before they implode?
  
  5 2
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  May 3, 2023 10:48am
  - riffer
    
    One swallow does not a snap election make.
    
    Especially when that swallow is a bit of a poisonous one who has been well demoted (and rightly) for poor behaviour.
    
    Can’t really see this one working in National’s favour though. Can you imagine TPM and ACT getting on? LOL.
    
    4 4
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    May 3, 2023 11:05am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Quite right
      The racists in TMP seem to get along just fine with the racists in Labour- and the Greens.
      So natch, they wont get along with ACT- who aren’t racists.
      
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      May 3, 2023 11:46am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      No one is suggesting that any accommodation between the National and Act parties and TPM is likely to be a goer.
      
      But what needs to happen now is for people to make a cuppa, sit down, take a breath and ask themselves seriously whether a Labour/Greens/TPM government would be in New Zealand’s best interests. And if the answer is “No”, they might just have to stick a clothespeg over their nose and vote National, because a strong National party vote, with Act maintaining its 2020 vote, is the only thing that will give us a change of government. As tempting as it may be to vote for someone like NZF or DNZ, that simply risks letting Labour sneak back in. This is the election to send a really strong and decisive message to the Labour Party; you’ve done enough damage already!
      
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      May 3, 2023 1:04pm
- Piniwi
  
  With a little English uttered at the live coverage of her defection it seems she thinks she can cross the house and sit among the natives. Is that correct? After resigning from Labour effective immediately how can she stay in the house in any seat? What is the official position for such defections?
  
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  May 3, 2023 11:45am
- Meztli Haanraadts
  
  She won’t need to be sacked as a Minister. She has said that she will sit on the backbench with Maori Party MPs.
  
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  May 3, 2023 12:21pm
Maggie Pie

And I’ll tell you who has gone quiet…. Meng Foon 😎
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May 3, 2023 10:21am
- riffer
  
  He doesn’t need to say anything. $1500 buys a lot of political influence. All the money donated to ACT could never compete with that.
  
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  May 3, 2023 10:36am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I think you will find that Kiri Allan got at least $10,685 from Meng & Ying.
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/488428/race-relations-commissioner-under-fire-for-financial-support-of-labour-mp
    
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    May 3, 2023 11:06am
    - riffer
      
      Pity you changed your comment. I thought it was pretty funny.
      
      My bad. You are correct on the figure.
      
      Still, compared to the ACT donations it’s not a lot. I am sure Kiri isn’t that much of a cheap date.
      
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      May 3, 2023 11:08am
      - Keith White
        
        Once the status of the person purchased is established, the rest is just haggling over price.
        
        8 2
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        May 3, 2023 11:39am
      - Burtland
        
        so buying cheap favors from your boss is OK
        
        7 0
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        May 3, 2023 12:24pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        What are you referring to?
        
        I didn’t change any comment.
        
        1 0
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        May 3, 2023 7:40pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Laying low lest he get branded as ‘racist.’
  He knows it after the Stop Co-Governance meetings.
  
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  May 3, 2023 10:51am
Kurious Kiwi

National needs to go on the front foot now.
Stop fiddling with side issues. Spotlight the elephant in the room.
The MSM wont publish, so take out billboards highlighting the Maori party ambition to own and tax water, own and tax hydro power. This is a coup unfolding in plain sight, but the public arent aware.

Force labour to rule it out or be seen to be enabling this attempted takeover.
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May 3, 2023 10:39am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Election Advertising, positive or negative can not start until July 14th.
  Not sure about candidate speaker meetings though.
  
  5 2
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  May 3, 2023 11:03am
  - rockape
    
    It can start anytime, you just have to account for it from the start of the election period. Look at all those sign written cars just for a start !
    
    6 0
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    May 3, 2023 11:53am
  - Burtland
    
    do-nothing Duncan Webb is on all the big electronic bill boards in Christchurch
    – surprised theres not more anti-government ads on them, like
    
    WHO OWNS THE WATER? NOBODY
    
    4 0
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    May 3, 2023 12:28pm
  - Paulus
    
    Bastille Day too !
    le quatorze juillet
    
    2 0
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    May 3, 2023 2:05pm
- riffer
  
  Dangerous move.
  
  It could so easily be misconstrued as maori-bashing it could completely destroy any campaign.
  
  Besides, it’s still an opinion, and if it turns out to be incorrect National would suffer a major credibility issue AND stand accused of playing the race card.
  
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  May 3, 2023 11:10am
  - Che Guava
    
    It would be Maori bashing. If Maori as a collective are to be overt political actors, then as a consequence, just like any other such political entity, they become open and subject to being “bashed” so to speak.
    
    Besides, we are constantly being told how “racist” we all are, so it follows that their will be a very receptive voting audience to such a campaign.
    
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    May 3, 2023 11:29am
  - All_on_Red
    
    ‘opinion’- snigger
    We are being told constantly that Maori own the water.
    
    9 1
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    May 3, 2023 11:36am
- Paulus
  
  When Labour are making such a balls up of just about everything just sit back and watch.
  Now is not the time to do anything – ask Chippie – he is just wellout of his depth so watch him try and swim towatds October
  Grant will help him, of course, as it is believed there is little love there anyway.
  
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  May 3, 2023 2:04pm
Maggie Pie

Residents fear homes in Mt Roskill may be caught by Labor’s million-dollar-plus ‘Mansion Tax’

https://trademe.co.nz/a/property/residential/sale/auckland/auckland-city/mount-roskill/listing/4062678462
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May 3, 2023 10:57am
- riffer
  
  $1.6 million for that? Crazy.
  
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  May 3, 2023 11:12am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Its 900sqm of land…
    
    6 0
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    May 3, 2023 11:35am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      And I see it’s zoned for Mt Roskill Grammar.
      
      Think thats Woodsie’s alma mater 😀 😀 😀
      
      7 1
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      May 3, 2023 11:43am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    YIP! Imagine what they show to ‘first home buyers’ 🙁
    
    5 2
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    May 3, 2023 11:36am
    - info@cruzpro.com
      
      My personal experience with real-estate sales people is that they will first show you a beat-up and expensive place before showing you something that they believe you might actually buy.
      
      3 0
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      May 3, 2023 1:40pm
Ghost

Excuse my language mods, but what a bunch of wankers

Police have removed protesters who blocked Wellington traffic on Wednesday morning on Glenmore St, at the city end of the Karori tunnel.

Members of the public challenged the Restore Passenger Rail protesters who blocked transport, including buses.

Liam Hannah, who confronted the protesters, said a man got off a stuck bus saying they were stopping him get to hospital for his daughter’s chemotherapy.

Article
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May 3, 2023 11:17am
- Mike
  
  I’m not sure there is much chance of building a passenger rail line to Karori.
  
  3 1
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  May 3, 2023 12:23pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Why are they not at Work?
  
  6 2
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  May 3, 2023 12:34pm
- Nickc2
  
  As someone initiated the other day: give each of them a traffic cone and leave them there to take their changes.
  
  3 1
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  May 3, 2023 12:48pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Yep. They’d move themselves PDQ
    
    1 0
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    May 3, 2023 7:42pm
rockape

Am I worried about the next election. Nah for all the spin on the polls when 55% say he country is going in the wrong direction and just 35% say the right direction. The possibility of a Labour ,Green,Maori party would be even worse and most voters know it.
Watch the Green vote drop and when a poll shows the right going to win then the Labour Party will follow them with more MPs defecting. I said post the last election that we will see National on 40% and ACT on 15% and I still stand by that.
10 1
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May 3, 2023 11:44am
Maggie Pie

RANDOM IMPERTINENT QUESTION

How likely is it that we will now see JT on the Maori Party list?
10 1
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May 3, 2023 12:00pm
- rockape
  
  Wasn’t willie a Maori party member before Labour bribed him to join them?
  
  6 1
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  May 3, 2023 12:07pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Not sure about that. Although I vaguely remember he got the DCM from his radio job over something to do with the ‘Roast-Busters-Scandal’
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roast_Busters_scandal
    
    5 1
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    May 3, 2023 12:50pm
    - rockape
      
      From the herald. “ Willie Jackson has dumped the Maori Party and is set to announce he is standing for Labour instead.
      
      The Maori broadcaster and former Alliance MP was considering standing for the Maori Party in the Tamaki Makaurau electorate, but sources said he had since been approached by Labour and now planned to stand on the list for them instead.
      
      It is expected to be announced by Jackson at Waitangi this weekend – where the Maori Party and Mana are also expected to announce the final outcome of their arrangement in the Maori seats.”
      
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      May 3, 2023 1:17pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Willie’s a big mouth for hire.
    
    6 0
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    May 3, 2023 12:53pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Willie Jackson was leader of Mana Motuhake… Part of the Alliance Party, then broke away to become Mana Party.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Jackson_(politician)
    
    7 0
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    May 3, 2023 1:11pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  JT has control of the Maori Party …(He’s President)
  Why would he want to drop down the ladder and let someone else run the show?
  
  Rawiri Waititi is his Son-in-law and will be following JT’s orders.
  
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  May 3, 2023 1:07pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    WOW….I had no idea that was the case!
    It all sounds sooo incestuous. Next thing you know he’ll appoint his brother to the role of Justice Advisor to the party.
    
    7 3
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    May 3, 2023 1:42pm
- alwyn.a
  
  It wouldn’t be the first time. He was at number 7 in the 2020 election, and he is the President of the Party.
  
  6 0
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  May 3, 2023 2:36pm
Meztli Haanraadts

The replies to this Tweet (hundreds of them) are entertaining. 🙂

“Te Whatu Ora Health New Zealand
From yesterday, 1 May, pregnant people aged 16 to 29 years can now get an additional COVID-19 booster.”

https://twitter.com/TeWhatuOra

“Pregnant people” 🙂
14 1
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May 3, 2023 12:16pm
rouppe

Kamahl Santamaria has started his own online channel.

I think it’s likely it won’t last long
3 0
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May 3, 2023 12:35pm
Maggie Pie

You wont see this on OneEwes 🙁

May Day in France….. Police are being set alight in the streets!

https://twitter.com/DrLoupis/status/1653128971322531840
9 1
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May 3, 2023 12:39pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/in-the-end-truth-always-wins/
3 2
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May 3, 2023 12:53pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Hillary’s people who crossed her?

https://www.facebook.com/TeRangitira/posts/pfbid0kWfPep6jyoSQwp4HcFch1tEUnkcnVdjXzdUT5Z8vTjpWjc9tCRgAKm5pWXPWt6Lzl
1 3
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May 3, 2023 12:56pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Dam, this one you have to log-in
  
  2 2
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  May 3, 2023 12:57pm
Yvette

Untangle –
Ngarewa-Packer is chief executive of the Ngāti Ruanui iwi
Waititi is of the Te Whānau a Apanui, Ngāi Tai, Te Whakatōhea, Ngāi Tūhoe, Ngāti Awa, Te Arawa, Ngāti Tūwharetoa, Ngāi Te Rangi and Ngāti Ranginui iwi. He is a father of five and husband to Kiri Tamihere-Waititi, the daughter of John Tamihere
John Tamihere joined the Māori Party in 2020 and from April to October 2020 was the party’s co-leader. He became president of the Māori Party in June 2022.
John Tamihere affiliates to the Whakatohea and Ngāti Porou ki Hauraki iwi.

So is this a Ngāti Porou / East Coast force compared to the Waikato / Taimui (King) of the Labour Party. But I may be wrong
And it depends on whether Meka Whaitiri has thrown herself out of Parliament under Winston’s law, horse traded against oil and gas exploration.
OK – get your smarter 10 year old to figure it out …
6 1
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May 3, 2023 12:59pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Meka Whaitiri has much stronger affiliations to Ngati Kahungungu than to Ngati Porou.
  
  The Maori Party doesn’t have a strong presence here in Gisborne and up the Coast.
  
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  May 3, 2023 2:18pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Does this remind you of someone?

1. Gaslighters tell blatant lies with a straight face because once they tell you a huge lie, you’re not sure if anything they say is true. Keeping you unsteady and off-kilter is the Gaslighter’s goal.
2. Gaslighters deny they ever said something, even though you have proof – they out and out deny it. And the more they do this, the more you question your reality and start accepting theirs.
3. Gaslighters use what is near and dear to you as ammunition. They know how important your family is to you, so they exploit the foundation of your identity.
4. Gaslighters wear you down over time – A lie here, a lie there, a snide comment … and then it starts ramping up, so the victim never realises what’s happening.
5. Gaslighter’s Actions do not match their words. What they are saying means nothing; it is just talk. What they are doing is the issue.
6. Gaslighters throw in positive reinforcement to confuse you. Cutting you down, telling you that you don’t have value, then praising you for something you did which serves their purpose.
7. Gaslighters exploit confusion to weaken people. They need you to constantly question everything. Then we look to whatever will help us feel more stable—Oh! and that just happens to be the Gaslighter.
8. Gaslighters project. If they are a drug user or a cheater (or politicise everything, or a narcissist), they accuse you of that to distract from their own behaviour.
9. Gaslighters align people against you. They are masters at manipulation. They use people they know will stand by them no matter what—and then use these people against you. Isolation gives the Gaslighter control.
10. Gaslighters try to convince you that your views are crazy. When you doubt your sanity, people will not believe you when you tell them about the Gaslighters. It’s a master technique.
11. According to Gaslighters, everyone else is a liar. Only they know ‘the truth’. It’s a manipulation technique to turn to the Gaslighters for the “correct” information.
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May 3, 2023 1:10pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Wise words from Johnny Cash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KqrjeScLSI
2 1
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May 3, 2023 1:13pm
Loddenthinks

I see that a man has won a women’s UCI cycle race in New Mexico. Austin Killips, a biological male won the final stage, the overall race by a distance, and the “Queen of the Mountains” jersey for best climber. Go figure.

UCI proudly stated: “The UCI rules are based on the latest scientific knowledge…”

Well, no they’re not. The latest scientific knowledge, which has been the case for quite some time now, is that if you’re born with a dick, you can’t be a chick. That has never changed and will never change.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/65456752
15 2
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May 3, 2023 1:18pm
Tauhei Notts

Let me share a brief chat with a woman who was staunchly and still is, Labour, particularly as Labour saved us from Covid. That woman has a senior job in commercial lending with an Aussie owned bank, so is not, apparently, a dunce.
She was unaware that a senior cabinet minister was leaving Labour but she was well aware that Hipkins had had a meeting with Prince William.
With voters like that our country has no show.
…It is too early in the day for me to seek solace in the bourbon bottle.
18 3
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May 3, 2023 1:25pm
- All_on_Red
  
  She probably gets her news from Facebook ,Stuff and Instagram
  
  6 2
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  May 3, 2023 1:58pm
- thirteenstars
  
  It’s never too early for gin. Bottoms up.
  
  5 0
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  May 3, 2023 3:17pm
- MCōs
  
  Meka Whaitiri was certainly not a senior cabinet minister.
  In fact she was a minister outside cabinet.
  Furthermore
  You might be surprised at how few people know, or care, who Meka Whaitiri is and the that she has resigned from from the Labour Party.
  She doesn’t have the flamboyance of Jamie-Lee Ross
  
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  May 3, 2023 3:22pm
thirteenstars

Meanwhile, over at BB&H, Don Brash has put the cat amongst the pigeons by suggesting National should do a deal with NZ First in Northland to make a Nat/ACT/NZF coalition possible.

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/don-brash-national-should-do-a-deal-on-northland

Most interesting is the comments section which shows just how wrought with division the so-called centre-right vote is. I think the same commentary and division would exist in this forum.

Won’t happen but good on Brash for at least throwing it out there. National loathes NZ First even more than it does ACT. God knows how things will pan out if they do sneak across the line come October. I can see Luxon & Co throwing NZ First back into the arms of Labour, or perhaps making NZF a severe thorn in their side as it straddles the house playing both sides against each other.
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May 3, 2023 3:16pm
- mandk
  
  But why?
  
  The NZF candidate in Northland is Shane Jones, who is poorly thought of in the electorate. In 2020, he lost most of the vote NZF had previously.
  
  By contrast, Matt King, now Democracy NZ, is highly regarded. In 2020, he actually increased his vote, unlike (all?) other National MPs, and his share of the vote fell only marginally.
  
  Apart from anything else, you don’t know what you will get from NZF. Their leader is the most venal politician around.
  
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  May 3, 2023 4:32pm
Maggie Pie

What would a clown like this know anyway?

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1653539974346579971

SHEESH!
5 2
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May 3, 2023 3:16pm
Sparrow

There was an interesting comment earlier in the day as to why Labour had a continuing fairly high support. The blogger thought it might be due to the number of people involved with the government. It got me thinking and wondering how many that could be ? If you add those employed directly such as public servants, and those working for quasi government organisations and the multitude of consultant companies then add all the people who recieve benefits in one form or another it must add up to a sizeable chunk of the voting population. All could be afraid of loosing out if there was to be a change of government. So look after those that are presently feeding you. This is a very large bedrock of support for Labour and with an opposition appearing to be little different why change. The status quo is maintained.
7 1
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May 3, 2023 4:13pm
- MCōs
  
  Back when Muldoon was PM a third of the workforce were public servants
  The Lange administration put the lawnmower through the ranks.
  BTW
  They or Bolger flogged off the rail network, which was a complete disaster. Transrail, the new owners, ran the system down and the government had to buy back the remnants
  Subsequent underfunding over the years has resulted in the current problems.
  
  2 4
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  May 3, 2023 4:52pm
  - kevn
    
    @mcos… You missed the bit about Toll ownership and subsequent cullen buying and paying waay too much, all against Treasury advice.
    
    4 1
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    May 3, 2023 5:27pm
NZer In Exile

Former New Zealand PM (guess which one) Joins Global Climate Skeptic Censorship Push:

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/04/26/former-new-zealand-pm-joins-global-censorship-push/
6 2
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May 3, 2023 5:11pm
- Ghost
  
  Chris hipkins? Oh wait he’s not former yet.
  
  6 1
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  May 3, 2023 5:15pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Come back tomorrow, Ghost
    
    3 0
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    May 3, 2023 7:49pm
- kevn
  
  @NZer… Whatever brings in the bacon will suit her fine.
  
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  May 3, 2023 5:29pm
Ghost

Was Jeffrey Epstein an operative or opportunist? Former FBI special agent weighs in
2 1
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May 3, 2023 5:40pm
Swifty

Isn’t this all just totally symptomatic of the goddam shambles that NZ politics is currently in?

Meka says she has written to the Speaker and has resigned, the Speaker says he hasn’t received any letter whatsoever from her.

John Tamihere says Meka hasn’t jumped any wakas.

Really John, then exactly what has she done?

Leaving one party for another mid-term, saying your vote will now be used not for Labour but the Maori Party, is exactly what waka jumping is, isn’t it?

If it is not, then I’d love to know why he thinks it’s not.

FFS – I don’t believe a word of what any of them say.

I think they have long since given up any pretence of being straight with the New Zealand public.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/131929354/meka-whaitiri-leaves-labour-for-mori-party-blindsiding-the-pm-heres-what-we-know
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May 3, 2023 5:47pm
- Ghost
  
  Here is a bit from Newshub and I’m sorry but you shouldn’t be allowed to withdraw a letter
  
  We will shortly be livestreaming Parliament TV. The events in the House should provide some clarity around whether Whaitiri has vacated her seat by writing to the Speaker with her resignation from Labour.
  
  If she did and the necessary requirements were fulfilled, then she vacates her seat. If some conditions weren’t met or she withdrew her letter, she could remain in the House as an independent and vote along Te Pāti Māori’s lines.
  
  Newshub
  
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  May 3, 2023 5:55pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Labour is not going to risk upsetting any more Maori MPs by going heavy on Meka.
    
    There’s too many interlinks between key personalities in Labour and Te Pati Maori.
    
    8 0
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    May 3, 2023 6:15pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Did you see the look on Willie’s dial when the reporter asked him….. if he had been aware of Meka’s move ?
  
  Wide EYES and a single “no” are a dead giveaway Willie 😀
  
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  May 3, 2023 6:47pm
- greybeard
  
  I certainly don’t believe a word from this speaker
  
  6 0
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  May 3, 2023 6:50pm
- Nickc2
  
  IMO, the whole thing’s too contrived by far. Even the Speaker’s into it!
  I think the smirk on Willie Jackson’s face on TV tonight gave it all away.
  Who’ll be next?
  
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  May 3, 2023 7:27pm

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