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December 30, 2022 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 30 December 2022

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General Debate

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Paulus

Am I the only one who is appalled that our Government has not put even the smallest of restriction or controls over the Chinese entering New Zealand now they have opened their travel doors.
Many other countries, Australia for example, have some controls such as a simple quick RAT test before departure, but we are again at the end of the queue because nobody is working at this time of the year or just plain stupid.
Looks like plain stupid again.
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December 30, 2022 8:07am
- Gordon Shumway
  
  I’m not remotely worried. I thought it was fairly clear from the past three years that trying to stop or slow the spread of already-circulating COVID at the border was a massive waste of time and resources.
  
  Yet here we are gain with some folk – including you presumably – wanting a return to 2019/2020…
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:27am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Here is something that some people will think as strange:
  
  Secretly Jaspinda is wanting another large infestation of NZ so she can lock down the whole Country. She gets her ‘control’ back.
  No?
  Think about it. Jaspinda is DESPERATE. She will do anything to stay in power – including giving Maori anything the ask for to help with 3 waters and co-governance.
  Anyone who thinks Jaspinda cares about the NZ people is mad. She does not give a shit. Power is paramount.
  Lockdowns here we come.
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:34am
  - Bob
    
    We in NZ are already being conditioned for a ‘Lock Down’ mid to late next year for a perceived – read politically engineered by the media- COVID outbreak. Note the regular comments from Baker.
    Arderns sole function as NZ PM is to instal a COMMUNIST government before she retires to the UN.
    We will then have IWI governance.
    WAke up folks, start thinking for yourselves; stop reading Union newsletters!
    
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    December 30, 2022 9:40am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Iwi = communists? sounds a bit confused. I am often reading on Kiwiblog about the Maori ‘aristocracy’, a concept that appears to be at odds with Marxist theories of social progression.
      
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      December 30, 2022 9:54am
      - Matt Long
        
        The wealthy and corrupt aristocracy in all communist countries is also at odds with Marxist theories, but then Marxist theories have proven to be garbage everywhere they’ve been tried.
        
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        December 30, 2022 10:00am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Theories of history, economics and philosophy all fail when applied in the ‘real’ world.
        
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        December 30, 2022 10:11am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        It is a Coup Mike. You are an intelligent person, you should already know about the Maori Elite plans of co-governance. We will lose Democracy, and NZ will be run by the Elite Maori Tyrants.
        That is what Japsinda wants before she leaves NZ for good.
        
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        December 30, 2022 10:12am
      - Aquarius
        
        Not sure how anyone can say he is an intelligent person
        Never been in evidence
        
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        December 30, 2022 11:01am
      - Jack5
        
        Steve Otto on Milky: …It is a Coup Mike. You are an intelligent person ..
        
        Easy does it, Steve. Now he’ll never move from the mirror.
        
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        December 30, 2022 11:27am
      - lastmanstanding
        
        Wrong Milkey. You obviously havent studied history to see that Communists have a strict class system. You have the various Classes of the Party who benefit according to their position and then you have the peasants.
        Maori have a class system that puts the old English class system to shame.
        
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        December 30, 2022 11:41am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Aquarius,
        Mike is clever and smart – knowledge is there. He does not google for every comment.
        Some days he acts like a jerk
        
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        December 30, 2022 11:46am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Milky I think you’ll find the separatists are a mixed bag (of nuts).
        
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        December 30, 2022 12:00pm
      - rjay
        
        Traditional Maori society is collectivist. Iwi are ,as currently constituted, a post colonial construct.
        
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        December 30, 2022 2:42pm
      - Jim
        
        More like: Ardern has deliberately weakened NZ national sovereignty and societal harmony which works to further subjugate NZ to the centrist UN.
        
        If you think that’s crazy. Was there ever any mention of political intent about declaring a Climate Emergency (nett Zero agenda) or undermining democracy with cogovernance on her Labour Party manifesto?
        
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        December 30, 2022 6:50pm
    - Sacha
      
      No. More lockdowns won’t work. People will ignore them, silently but surely.
      And the election will be lost even more emphatically.
      Of course she may try cancelling the election . . . . .
      
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      December 30, 2022 10:07am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Baker is a proven liar, yet he has never been challenged for it and never been censured. Astonishing that such a high profile and influential “expert” can get away with lying to the public. Only in New Zimbabwe.
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mivnv4YTjuw&t=202s
      
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      December 30, 2022 10:26am
      - JerJer
        
        I want to know what the idiot Barker thinks about the Covid spread in China. Not that I care a lot because Covid is pretty harmless…..but…..this idiot told us that we must wear masks to stop the spread, and also get vaccinated (that is a different issue), however, the Chinese are huge mask wearers, and they do it without being asked, and they always have, to try protect themselves from colds and flu and pollution and whatever else. I always thought it was stupid even prior to Covid. The estimate is that 37 million people in China are catching it per day. Can the expert please now tell us how this happened? Masks do stop transmission don’t they. Maybe that is why he is supporting open border with China because he now knows that his advice was worth a knob of goat shit all along (and that’s being nice). The Chinese travelling will not make blind bit of difference and now he finally knows it.
        
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        December 30, 2022 8:58pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/china-s-covid-19-case-surge-an-unfolding-humanitarian-disaster-nz-epidemiologist/ar-AA15KVtP
      
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      December 30, 2022 11:55am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Can you believe them?
        
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        December 30, 2022 1:23pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Baker, Don. He has fucked us around so many times.
        
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        December 30, 2022 5:14pm
  - peterwn
    
    She needs some excuse to do a daily ‘election speech’ to the nation which is what helped her win the 2020 election.
    
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    December 30, 2022 10:23am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I don’t think people are interested in her “speeches” any longer.
      
      She overplayed her tele-time.
      
      She’s just another boring, middle-aged woman going blah, blah, blah.
      
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      December 30, 2022 11:00am
      - RockyJ
        
        Yes indeed. She is now laughable as she tries to keep up the pretence of being the great leader.
        
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        December 30, 2022 11:27am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        But youth adjacent 😃
        
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        December 30, 2022 12:17pm
      - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
        
        Maggy – All I can say is never under estimate the fear of NZ sheeple. One word from Right Honourable Ms Jacinda Ardern that million people could die due to a new strain of covide, sheeple will get inside their house and lock themselves and will not come out.
        
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        December 30, 2022 12:17pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The World Media are now laughing at Jaspinda.
      Finally they realise that this NZ news is a gone burger.
      Now we see a desperate person in panic mode, and it is all her own doing.
      Tell me I am wrong.
      
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      December 30, 2022 5:19pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    From ‘Stop Co-Governance:
    Bill said that soon after he was elected he had to undergo two fulls day of ‘compulsory’ history lessons, teaching
    about the Treaty, historical grievances against Maori etc. As you’d expect, the course was loaded with lies, deceit,
    and misinformation.
    The lecturers were local Maori.
    The course was designed to psychologically break down council members, grooming them.
    
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    December 30, 2022 10:27am
  - Local Miller
    
    Has anyone besides me actually looked at the official number of cases in NZ at the moment? By the “old” standard we should be in permanent lockdown.
    
    There were officially 32,010 cases in the past week, and the week before that over 42,000 cases. An these are just the official cases, it doesn’t include those people who just took a RAT test and went to bed to self isolate.
    
    The current state of Covid in NZ show that all the lockdowns were based on a lie, and the mandates unjustified. Now with apparently 90% of the original eligible adults jabbed, there have been 2,094,354 official cases, so at least half the adult population.
    
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    December 30, 2022 12:17pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  To be clear – if the Government were to do that, they would be going further than epidemiologist Michael Baker thinks is justified by the risk. You know, that same Michael Baker that Kiwibloggers have spent months deriding as an over-reacting, alarmist hysteric who was getting far too much media time and whipping up baseless fear.
  
  But now we think we and the Government should be more fearful than he is?
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:37am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Albert – it’s the Chinese factor that terrifies the illogical.
    
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    December 30, 2022 9:55am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      The racial straw-man insinuation again Milky?
      
      Okey Dokey.
      
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      December 30, 2022 12:03pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Baker the liar? Why would you listen to anything he says?
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mivnv4YTjuw&t=202s
    
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    December 30, 2022 10:27am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      “I don’t tell people what to do”
      Where did she learn that?
      
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      December 30, 2022 10:35am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      80000 deaths, end of story 👍🏻
      
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      December 30, 2022 12:18pm
- pdm
  
  Paulus – probably one of the deals Jacinda did with Xi when they met a month or two ago.
  
  She is in thrall of that man.
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:41am
  - Paulus
    
    Isn’t she going back again soon to China and the Far East as a Business Leader now ?
    
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    December 30, 2022 1:53pm
- farbeyond
  
  I am not for any kind of covid restrictions, especially after two years of evidence.
  
  I am against the double standard we always have to put up with. IF it is about the virus and our health and common good, wouldn’t you do something? A RAT at least as you said and give some guidelines? Of course nobody will care about them but you can keep the charade going and keep virtue signalling your good will on our behalf. It has always been political and what level of BS the majority of people will put up with.
  
  I guess the curtain is dropping for this government.
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:45am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It is very interesting….
  
  Our Government spent a couple of years trying to prevent “infected” folk from getting into NZ, but now we are told the problem is WITHIN…
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/481623/kiwis-bigger-covid-19-risk-than-chinese-travellers-michael-baker
  
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  December 30, 2022 10:16am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    Oh come on Maggy, as a scientist you should be better than that.
    
    The. Circumstances. Are. Now. Completely. Different.
    
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    December 30, 2022 11:23am
  - Jim
    
    It was always more political BS than medical science. As even in late 2020 when the official WHO C19 IFR (infection fatality rate) was demonstrated to be very low and most discriminatory towards aged (80+) and infirm people.
    Under our benevolent government’s ‘science’ even young healthy people were quarantined and mandated to get a jab that didn’t offer any appreciable protection.
    
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    December 30, 2022 6:58pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  What is the point? Why do I care if a Chinese tourist has covid when on any given day there are tens of thousands of cases here. Just forget about it.
  
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  December 30, 2022 10:23am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    It plays into incipient racist attitudes.
    
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    December 30, 2022 10:35am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Yep it’s always those deplorable racists hey Milky. Nothing to do with the fact something obviously very weird is going on in the middle kingdom in regards the handling of Covid.
      
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      December 30, 2022 12:07pm
- Philview
  
  Paulus
  I am more bothered by the twist and turns of some journalists to back her. If she locks down it is correct but if she doesn’t lock down it is correct. 20 deaths at the start was a national tragedy whereas 80 deaths last week was irrelevant.
  
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  December 30, 2022 10:57am
  - Jim
    
    PIJF?
    
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    December 30, 2022 6:59pm
- Ra Henare
  
  What a load of xenophobic crap!!
  
  NZ has a Waaaaaay worse rate of Covid infection.
  NZ= 427,576/mill
  China=292/mill
  Countries should be testing people leaving NZ
  Not worrying about China.
  
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  December 30, 2022 3:13pm
- Keith White
  
  Wait until JA recycles this gem of virtue-signalling…
  
  “(On 5 Feb 2020) Florence mayor Dario Nardella wanted to promote liberal values and send a message to the world started a ‘Hug A Chinese Person’ program. Soon Italians picked up the slogan and started a wider ‘Hug a Chinese’ movement. While the whole world was advising people on social distancing, Italy went the opposite way ignoring the advice to maintain social distance.”
  
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  December 30, 2022 7:13pm
mikenmildagain

Can NZ pull off a good away win in Pakistan? Very good batting yesterday – Williamson at near his best – and poor fielding from Pakistan has the match set nicely for the final day.
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December 30, 2022 8:12am
- blue collar
  
  Hope so . See how our spinners go
  
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  December 30, 2022 8:27am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I’m too somnolent to last the full day, but the first session and a half should be a good watch.
    
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    December 30, 2022 9:21am
    - Don Beckett
      
      As long as you don’t go somnambulising around the place, you’ll stay safe. 🙂
      
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      December 30, 2022 10:35am
    - Jack5
      
      Mike, as the blog’s resident cricket guru, what do you think of women’s cricket?
      
      Do cricket aficionados like yourself follow it?
      
      Does women’s cricket generate entertaining commentaries?
      
      What is the comment chatter about if there isn’t so much history to recall? Do women’s games even get radio commentary?
      
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      December 30, 2022 12:17pm
- Colville
  
  I thought that Williamsons innings was selfish and too slow. They should have been all out faster for the same score. Pitch looks dead enough for Paki to bat out the day. 80% chance of a draw I think.
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:33am
  - MCōs
    
    NZ batted at better than three runs/over, which is pretty good going.
    Anyone who tried to press the pace got out.
    The first thing is to win and the second thing is not lose.
    BTW
    One of their bowler pitched the ball so far outside leg stump for long periods he was impossible to attack.
    
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    December 30, 2022 9:58am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Lol Colville, if Williamson hadn’t been “too slow” and made by the way, TWO hundred, we wouldn’t have made 400 let alone 600.
    
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    December 30, 2022 10:00am
    - Colville
      
      And if NZ was all out rwo sessions earlier we would struggle to lose the game. Now we have near zero chance of a win.
      
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      December 30, 2022 1:53pm
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        Twaddle Colville. The ONLY chance NZ had to win was bat Pakistan out of the game and leave them batting on the last day to save the game. If you believe that chasing 300 + on any last day pitch is the way to go to win a cricket test, then what you know about cricket can be written on the back of a postage stamp with the thickest felt tip you can find.
        
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        December 30, 2022 3:15pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Time will tell. NZ is playing its 22nd test in Pakistan, of which it has so far won two, drawn six and lost thirteen. A Pakistan win in this test is very unlikely.
    
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    December 30, 2022 10:03am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      The beat Pakistan in Shar Jar in the last couple of years
      
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      December 30, 2022 12:25pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Pretty sure the NZers were playing to a plan, that plan was to keep Williamson there till the end and bat around him
    
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    December 30, 2022 12:24pm
    - Colville
      
      So you agree. Ego driven gamelan.
      
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      December 30, 2022 3:20pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  NZ has to take every opportunity or they will draw, if you think back to when Pak were 3 down in the first innings, the top batsmen was dropped at first slip in a sitter for 12 and went on to get 161, right there is possibly the winning of the game gone, but they must take every opportunity from here
  
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  December 30, 2022 12:21pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

RIP Pele
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December 30, 2022 8:14am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Incomparable genius of the sport. Bradman-like, but in the world’s game.
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:22am
  - Sol Invictus
    
    Why downtick this perfectly sensible comment? Play the ball, not the man!
    
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    December 30, 2022 7:08pm
- Rusty
  
  @NeverMind..
  
  Pele along with George Best and Maradona the greatest footballers ever.
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:43am
  - yossarian
    
    We never saw the best of Ronaldo (the real one). Check out the YouTube of him captaining the rest of the world vs the best of Europe (I think he was 20 at the time) he along with Gabriel Batistuta scored something like 5 goals in 30 minutes. What Ronaldo didn’t score he set up.
    
    He was incredible but taken out from some seriously bad fouling, like Maradona.
    
    I love these debates, but my Top 5 are,
    
    1. Maradona
    2. Pele
    3 to 5 in no order, Messi, Zidane and Ronaldo.
    
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    December 30, 2022 10:29am
- Philview
  
  Although Pele was before my time I have seen footage from either the 62 or 66 World Cup where he he was subjected to absolute brutality from opposing teams. Football was obviously a different type of game back then and giving someone a whack off the ball when the Ref wasn’t looking was easy to get away with. Pele in this footage seemed to have a dignified approach and an assault off the ball would just be accepted but he would get his revenge by playing better football.
  
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  December 30, 2022 11:16am
  - slijmbal
    
    I always thought Maradona was overrated. While he was a great dribbler he was a rather selfish player who frequently lost the ball by taking on one player too many and was not great at goal assists. He was also renowned for being both a cheat and being violentally tackled and retaliating. He was a hard man but not IMO a truly great player.
    
    Both Pele and Georgie Best had great assist records in addition to their ability to score with huge skill never mind that Pele scored a lot more important goals than Maradona. Best only really got to show his skills in Man U as he had no real international career as Northern Island were crap.
    
    Great story about Best – he told a reporter who asked him who was better him or Cruyf (an amazing player who should be in any top 10 IMO) . So he said he would nutmeg him. He did – he beat several Dutch players just so he could nutmeg him.
    
    I notice not a lot of mention of Messi, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Zidane etc.
    
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    December 30, 2022 9:02pm
slightlyrighty

I’ve been thinking (dangerous, I know!). But here we go.

Regarding the push for Co-governance.

It stems from NZ signing UN agreement on the rights of indigenous peoples.

Has anyone else realized that this agreement is being applied to a group in NZ, who, by their own admission, is not actually indigenous?

Maori have been here longer than European settlers, but both groups are settlers, and neither are truly indigenous.

Even Willie Jackson publicly acknowledged his own iwi’s role in the genocide of the Moriori.

Maori were here before Europeans, but that does not mean you are indigenous, so why are we doing so much regarding the UN declaration on indigenous peoples for a group who, strictly speaking, have no right to claim indigenous status?
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December 30, 2022 8:16am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Please define indigenous more precisely. Some people like to maintain a distinction between the terms indigenous and aboriginal, so I am interested to know your take on this.
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:24am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    ‘indigenous: adjective
    /ɪnˈdɪdʒənəs/
    (formal)
    
    belonging to a particular place rather than coming to it from somewhere else.”
    
    It is generally accepted that Maori arrived in NZ in the late 13th Century. Opinions at to who might have been here prior to the arrival of Maori settlers does vary, and there is a lot of conjecture and theory regarding the Moriori people, but even Maori themselves accept that there is some responsibility on Maori for what has been described as a Genocide, as evidenced by Willie Jackson’s apology.
    
    This begs the question. At what point does a distinct ethnic group’s status change from settlers to indigenous?
    
    Can there be such a point?
    
    If European settlement took place in the Early 19th century, does nearly 200 years of continual habitation by europeans qualify us as indigenous? If not, what period of time would?
    
    If the answer to that question is “There is no period of time in which settlement qualifies your group to be regarded as indigenous, then by that logic, Maori cannot be indigenous.
    
    If Maori are to be considered indigenous, then there must be a point at which any group, having settled, must be considered the same.
    
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    December 30, 2022 9:39am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      indigenous
      /ɪnˈdɪdʒɪnəs/
      adjective
      1. originating or occurring naturally in a particular place; native.
      “coriander is indigenous to southern Europe”
      2.
      (of people) inhabiting or existing in a land from the earliest times or from before the arrival of colonists.
      “she wants the territorial government to speak with Indigenous people before implementing a programme”
      
      You might wish to contrast these meanings with:
      
      aboriginal
      /ˌabəˈrɪdʒɪnl/
      adjective
      1.
      relating to the indigenous peoples of Australia or their languages.
      “she’s been working with Aboriginal people for the past 40 years”
      2.
      inhabiting or existing in a land from the earliest times or from before the arrival of colonists; indigenous.
      “the aboriginal populations in Southeast Asia”
      
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      December 30, 2022 9:50am
      - slightlyrighty
        
        My point is, there are various definitions, and each side will pick the one that suits their outcome.
        
        Has it been determined in Law?
        
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        December 30, 2022 10:07am
      - Deane Jessep
        
        Sure Mike, words change meanings. This can and does happen both organically and deliberately. They can also have meanings changed back organically and deliberately. As they say, winners set the terms.
        
        Consider the meaning and etymology of the word slave:
        https://youtu.be/xU2KwlWL1Us
        
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        December 30, 2022 10:18am
      - Taieri
        
        (of people) inhabiting or existing in a land from the earliest times or from before the arrival of colonists.
        ————
        
        What happens when there’re several waves of colonisation?
        
        Are the descendants of Celts indigenous to today’s UK?
        What about Anglo-Saxons? And descendants of Normans? With an odd bit of a Viking thrown in?
        Or does it only apply when a different skin hue is present?
        
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        December 30, 2022 10:19am
      - Jack5
        
        If human beings originated in Africa, can any other continent, or any island, have truly indigenous people?
        
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        December 30, 2022 1:05pm
    - Blog-aholic
      
      The Kiore (rat) that the Maori brought to New Zealand when they arrived is not considered to be indigenous to New Zealand.
      
      So conclusively if it isn’t, they cannot be either.
      
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      December 30, 2022 9:50am
    - dubya
      
      I’m really surprised DNA, carbon dating and whatever other techniques exist haven’t given 99% certainty as to where Maori emigrated from.
      
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      December 30, 2022 9:53am
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        There is no one point of origin for the Maori, aside from Polynesians can from Polynesia and that their ancestors came from the west Pacific.
        Melanesian and even Phillipino origins alongside a strong ‘Taiwan’ point of origin.
        i.e. there is no 1 single line of ancestry in the mix of people who are called Maori, but the direction is well understood.
        It gets more complicated in that there was even movement between Taiwan and the Phillipines thousands of years ago, but if a single answer was needed than ‘Taiwan’ is high up the list for answers as their place of origin.
        There are genetic-experts that have explained it in more complicated language to me before but sum up as Taiwan-direction with some other parts in the mix.
        A good book would be Janet Davidson’s ‘Prehistoric NZ’ to explain the populating of the Pacific, and the Lapita people, etc.
        
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        December 30, 2022 11:30am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        They may have come from more than one location in the region of the Cook islands, Austral Islands and Society Islands.
        
        Mass Migration and the Polynesian Settlement of New Zealand
        
        https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10963-017-9110-y
        
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        December 30, 2022 11:38am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      “Opinions at to who might have been here prior to the arrival of Maori settlers does vary,…”
      
      Is that correct? I thought the overwhelming evidence that there were no people living in New Zealand prior to settlers arriving from Polynesia in the 13th century?
      
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      December 30, 2022 10:12am
      - Deane Jessep
        
        There has been overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I remember much from my childhood as my father was very interested.
        
        There has just been a long march through our institutions deleting all records and hiding that which cannot be deleted.
        
        Here’s a discussion of some examples that are not settled:
        https://www.imdb.com/video/vi993965337/
        
        But good luck even finding the actual documentary as:
        https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018658273/seven-foot-tall-pre-maori-disappear-from-tvnz
        
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        December 30, 2022 10:30am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Benedict
        NZ has quite a long history of crank theories about Polynesian settlement. I always recommend Kerry Howe’s book The Quest for Origins for its excellent summary of what is actually known about the human settlement of Polynesia and also its description of the various outdated and crank theories.
        
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        December 30, 2022 10:39am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Deane… That does not look like much of a source. Are there any archeologists who have evidence that New Zealand was populated before Polynesians arrived in the 13th century? Is there documented evidence that has been published in credible journals? Do any credible New Zealand historians hold such views?
        
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        December 30, 2022 10:49am
      - slightlyrighty
        
        That’s my understanding as well, although some academics point to Moriori settlement in the Chathams as early as the 11th Century..
        
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        December 30, 2022 10:54am
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        I have heard probably all the stories: Celts, Chinese, Phoenicians, Waitaha people, Vikings etc. etc all supposedly here before Maori.
        
        There was an early mistake amongst archeologists in the 19th century to perceive what were called ‘moahunter’ as a different people to the Maori that Cook found here, but it is now clear that the different stone tools types used had changed over 500 years and the originals are all distinctly ‘Archaic East Polynesian’.
        I have recorded some very early sites, with stone and artefacts types very early-arrival assemblages. One site is carbon dated to the late 13th-century.
        I also collect artefacts from iron-age and bronze age cultures, and visit sites when I am overseas (and fossick sites, to be honest, for surface finds).
        I have handled a LOT of human bones from burials.
        There is nothing aside from a Polynesian pre-history to NZ. Even the pictures of ‘mystery skulls’ I have seen had Polynesian characteristic, such identified by Houghton in ‘The First New Zealanders’.
        The lack of ceramics on any NZ site is the clearest indication that the only people who settled here had no knowledge of the kiln. Stone age and even Iron age sites overseas would yield masses of material in fragments.
        The supposed ‘giant’ skeletons, such as I have spoken with people who discovered them, is just that when you lay out a skeleton with bones end-on-end, as a novice, it always looks massive; but humans fit together snuggly and these are not 7 feet tall people at all.
        Some early Europeans anthropologists misunderstood stories of ‘tangata whenua’ which Maori displaced as being a seperate race, and even suggested an ‘inferior Melanesian people’ were here first. The stories however are no different to the change of ownership of land to a more vigorous or larger tribe, such as places where the Ngati Raukawa or Ngati Maru might have been driven away in the late 18th century and so the pa on the hills were not built by the tribe in occupation at the time of the Treaty ‘freezing’ tribal lands in effect.
        There is so much wrong with the non-Polynesian arrival fantasies that are too often spoken. I wouldn’t want to even dignify them as theories. It is more like talking religion and I suspect there is psychology or need behind the belief more than anything. I even tried to point out to the author of ‘Ancient Celtic NZ’ that his so-called collapsed Celtic stone round houses on blatantly Maori sites are just the stone pilings besides the gardens within (fertile) volcanic soils. The stones are not construction material, but filtered out waste from Maori-modified garden soils and include stones of 50cent piece sizes, and there is no fireplace of occupation evidence underneath them.
        But rebutting item by item all the usual stuff which the believers list out takes a long time.
        I will state though that one interpretation of NZ paleo-biology is that the Polynesian rat was here much earlier than the 13th century, and that at least earlier return journeys or arrivals of such small numbers of people that the sites have not yet been found or have been lost. The potential evidence is the extinction of a certain ground nesting/burrowing bird which occurred before the generally accepted arrival of humans, which might be suggesting (as Holdaway and Worthy wrote in ‘Lost World of the Moa’) that perhaps something was “nibbling at the food chain” earlier.
        This is of course far from evidence of Vikings, Chinese, or Celts being here, and fits more with the idea that the Maori who colonised here were coming to a land which was already known; this in itself should not be that contentious.
        
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        December 30, 2022 11:23am
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        slightlyrighty, I would suggest Mike King’s ‘Moriori; A People Rediscovered’.
        
        It seems most likely the Chathams were populated from NZ, by the early Polynesians. i.e this is after the 13th century arrival in NZ.
        Contact was lost centuries before Europeans arrived – Moriori developed a pacifist culture and were ‘different’ to their cousins in NZ. Maori learnt of (and went to plunder and murder) only after they learnt of the place after Europeans had discovered both. Two tribes of the Taranaki iwi then strong-armed a European vessel to take them there for purposes of of conquests. An account of this can be found in ‘Tresspassing Tikanga’ by Trevor Bentley, which is a collection of stories of Pakeha taken captive by Maori between the 1820s and 1880s.
        (There is also the unfortunate fact, again by some 19th century anthropologist interpretations, to say that the Moriori were the original (inferior) people from NZ and predated Maori. That would mean that the Chatham Islands Moriori were the last hold-outs of a people who were wiped out in NZ long ago. There is no evidence for this or any reason to stick to that early confusion. Mike King’s book is well recommended.)
        
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        December 30, 2022 11:38am
    - Jim
      
      Typical UN BS aimed to tear apart the fabric of established functional democracies.
      
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      December 30, 2022 7:03pm
  - Paulus
    
    From Google
    The words Aboriginal, Native and Indigenous refer to the same group of people. This is in the same context as Caucasian or White. The three groups of Indigenous people in Canada according to the Canadian Constitution Act 1982 are Indians, Métis and Inuit.
    
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    December 30, 2022 10:07am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Fuzzysnuzzleduck.
      Could it be that there was only a single landing of an individual tribe on the Chathams post the migration here which led the adoption of pacifism as there were no inter-tribal differences?
      
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      December 30, 2022 12:53pm
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        Could well be, since it was 2 tribes from Taranaki (Ngati Mutunga and Ngati Tama) who arrived on the Chathams, and they started fighting between each other in time, even pa building and besieging.
        So being all one family is a better starting point.
        Amore complete answer would come from their own cultural stories though, as to why Moriori avoided bloodshed and had only ritual combat for resolving conflict.
        I don’t remember the Moriori accounts well enough but I seem to recall their was an ancestral figure who was the lawmaker on this specific. They even collectively resolved to hold to their non-violent traditions when the Maori went across the land killing and enslaving them, so was truly ingrained by then {sadly}.
        
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        December 30, 2022 1:04pm
- Swifty
  
  They’ve changed the definition of indigenous from its original meaning – so that Maori qualify.
  
  It used to mean ‘native to’ or ‘originating from’ , now it means a race, first to a land, who are now in the minority, colonised, wish to reestablish traditional customs etc…
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:35am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Who are ‘they’, Swifty? See my reply to slighlyrighty. The meaning of words changes over time – always has and always will.
    
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    December 30, 2022 9:51am
    - Matt Long
      
      Like “democracy” changing the meanings of words is vitaal to agitprop.
      
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      December 30, 2022 10:05am
    - Swifty
      
      Sorry, the UN.
      
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      December 30, 2022 10:26am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Indeed, like “vaccine” and “case”, both changed totally organically in the last 2 years after not changing for at least a hundred years. Nothing to do with the introduction of experimental technology making billions of dollars for pharmaceutical companies.//
      
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      December 30, 2022 10:43am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        [Mod – no need for that]
        
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        December 30, 2022 12:57pm
  - Deane Jessep
    
    Hence the extreme and somewhat irrational hatred by some of Graham Hancock’s new show on Netflix Ancient Apocalypse. I thought it was a good laugh, and contained some stuff worth looking deeper at. The threat of course is that it undermines this new definition of indigenous, because it opens the door to them not being first.
    
    I remember as a kid being taken by my father to some locations that he described as pre-maori. There were caves with paintings and standing stones. Some even had DOC signage! My father was fascinated by these locations. Try finding anything like that now…
    
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    December 30, 2022 10:02am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Graham Hancock is a crank, like Eric von Daniken, Ron Wyatt, Gavin Menzies, and other well-known pseudoarchaeologists and pseudohistorians. We even have one or two in NZ – Noel Hilliam and Martin Doutre spring to mind.
      
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      December 30, 2022 10:19am
      - Deane Jessep
        
        Not everything proposed has to be perfect for some of it to still be true. Over time Graham Hancock has been proven to be correct with many examples.
        
        The fact that you even use the slurs pseudo… say it all buddy.
        
        Personally, I think your inability to look at what they put forward with an open mind makes you the crank.
        
        But hey each to their own.
        
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        December 30, 2022 10:35am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Please provide your best example of Graham Hancock being ‘proved correct’.
        
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        December 30, 2022 10:40am
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        Gavin Menzies. Urgh. I have a signed copy of his book as I was indirectly involved in some of the carbon dating he did of a supposed map via Waikato University.
        I was in contact with academics overseas who did some excellent piece by piece rebuttal of his fake-history by checking with local historians. In my case, I read his NZ section and the geographical errors, the conflation of different facts, and the apparently deliberate misinterpretation of well know ship wrecks was a trend he repeated overseas. A good one is the ‘Ruapuke wreck’, which was last washed out in 1908 from memory, and as Mike King noted it has been used as evidence for Viking, Roman, Egpytian discovery of NZ as various times.
        I know from local knowledge that a whaling trypot was found inland of that beach. Another wreck washed out further up the coast in 2004 and has conventional Victorian ship iron-work recovered.
        The list of (known) lost ships between Mokau and Port Waikato I was shown by an archeaologist involved was a couple of pages long.
        so the flimsiest of evidence is stretched to breaking point repeatedly by folk like Menzies, and even worse is misrepresented.
        Dr Geoff Wade has done some excellent work with others to list out all the fallacies and discredit the fantasy: I am not sure Gavin even believes his own book, being so full of holes that I can only assume he is a conman or slightly deranged.
        
        Edit – Erik Von Daniken was a good read back in the day. I liked his books as a kid, but now would read them purely for fun and not take it seriously. The original ‘ancient astronaut’ author, he went a bit of the rails after maybe starting sincere and got exposed as a fraud and fantasist with follow-up books to ‘Chariot’s of the Gods’. i.e just making stuff up rather than putting a unique interpretation on sites or ancient tales.
        
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        December 30, 2022 12:12pm
  - MCōs
    
    If you are a creationist nobody is indigenous then. Except those originally born in the Garden of Eden.
    My 1898 Collins dictionary seems to indicate the word applies to plants in which case nothing is indigenous to this land.
    Whichever way you look at it it all depends who’s telling the story and that’s usually the people most like yourself.
    
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    December 30, 2022 10:24am
- Yvette
  
  Then-Prime Minister John Key’s statement that in part –
  • reaffirms the legal and constitutional frameworks that underpin New Zealand’s legal system, noting that those existing frameworks define the bounds of New Zealand’s engagement with the declaration.
  https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/national-govt-support-un-rights-declaration
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:36am
  - Its only I
    
    I think that bold part is getting lost in the noise.
    By noise I mean both sides.
    Labour has no UN legs to prop up its co governance torso while those opposing try to reason with its empty head.
    
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    December 30, 2022 11:21am
- Rusty
  
  @slightly..
  
  It depends on what the definition of indigenous people means.
  
  Indigenous really means the first race to inhabit a land which would be the Maori race in NZ.
  
  btw -Don’t want to get into a creation v evolution debate on where all the races of this world all came
  from!
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:41am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    While that is the definition that suits the political aims of Maori, it doesn’t address the primary question.
    
    At what point do settlers become indigenous? Or is the basis of that status simply “We were here first”?
    
    Maori have acknowledged, publicly, that there was a genocide against Moriori that thay do take responsibility for.
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/moriori-praised-for-dedication-patience-as-18m-and-apology-settlement-with-crown-becomes-law/VR32NHE6MDBEHZE6ZL5Z2X5NDU/
    
    Moriori are now regarded as NZ’s second indigenous peoples. Debate continues as to their origin, with current theories pointing to the Moriori being a sub group of Ngai Tahu, given similarities in the oral traditions of that tribe.
    
    But it begs the question. At what point do settlers become indigenous?
    
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    December 30, 2022 10:05am
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      Moriori lived on Chatamns for 300-400 years separated from mainland NZ. They had their own customs and religious beliefs.
      
      The similarity between Moriori and Maori in my way of thinking is like the similarity between Australians and NZers. We have similar origins but are separate nations. Imagine the outrage if Australia decided to conquer NZ like this.
      
      The invasion of the Chatamns and subjugation of the Moriori by Taranaki Maori was an act of war that resulted in the destruction of the Moriori nation. The conquerors/ colonisers were ruthless. That they both shared Polynesian ancestry was of no regard when it came to the way the Moriori were treated.
      
      Laughably we are now providing the Moriori nation with payments under the treaty of waitangi. Strange isn’t it that the Crown would be responsible for this. If Australia conquered NZ would the UK be responsible?
      
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      December 30, 2022 3:29pm
  - Cassandra
    
    First race to inhabit a land? It’s got to be a bit more than that. Some of grandchildren are 1/32nd Maori; they are no more or less indigenous than the rest. Or their grandfather for that matter! My great-grandfather was an immigrant, in 1872. The Cassandra family has been here for 150 years – surely we’re indigenous. You can’t compare NZ and Maori with Australian aborigines or Amazon native people. My first step as ruler will be to tell the UN we made a mistake. So sorry.
    
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    December 30, 2022 10:31am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Slightly,
  Have a look at this website (you may have already)
  There is a wealth of information. Run by Julian Batchelor – and no, he is not racist. There are many guest posters, and a place to leave comments.
  Julian Batchelor is a sort of evangelist, and that does not bother me at all.
  http://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:42am
- Benedict Yu
  
  You are not going to win an argument that Maori are not indigenous. More importantly it is not an argument that you need to have.
  
  A much better solution is for the next government to advise the UN that it is withdrawing from the UN Convention. Then advise officials to stop all work on cogovernance and to never bring up the subject ever again.
  
  Then expunge all of the proto Co governance requirements from all New Zealand legislation, preferably in an omnibus Bill.
  
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  December 30, 2022 10:20am
  - Cassandra
    
    Plus a whole lot of mentions of the principles of the ToW.
    
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    December 30, 2022 10:32am
    - Nickc2
      
      And ask the King to rescind Geoffrey Palmer’s Knighthood on the grounds of corrupting NZ’s History.
      
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      December 30, 2022 11:22am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        More likely to see Ray Avery’s knighthood revoked.
        
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        December 30, 2022 11:44am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Bring that TOW back to the three articles without all of the luggage hanging off it.
      The basic 3 articles a high school kid could understand.
      
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      December 30, 2022 1:23pm
      - jgw739
        
        Interesting that one of the three Articles is never mentioned by Jackson, Mahuta and Co.
        
        Someone needs to remind them that cannot sell any property without offering it to the Crown first.
        
        Further, they possibly need to consult an expert from England, well versed in 18th century law. And possibly the services of a Celtic druid to make the appropriate incantations to appease a Horned God or two.
        
        Remember, this article only applies to Maori and the cost would need to borne by them alone. Suddenly these elites would all be embracing their European heritage!
        
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        December 30, 2022 6:32pm
  - Deane Jessep
    
    That’s actually a pretty elegant solution mate. One I agree with.
    
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    December 30, 2022 10:37am
  - Scott
    
    Benedict – a very elegant solution and if I could give more upticks I would. 🙂
    
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    December 30, 2022 11:06am
- NZer In Exile
  
  UN not elected by the NZ people. Mainly populated by far left activists pushing the usual far left narratives from their alternative reality universe.
  
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  December 30, 2022 12:13pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Vale Pele.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/42751517
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December 30, 2022 8:20am
- ClanMcleod
  
  One of the legends. RIP.
  
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  December 30, 2022 8:23am
  - Sol Invictus
    
    Downticks? Really? Would any of the downtickers like to tell us why they did so?
    
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    December 30, 2022 7:20pm
- Simon
  
  He was in some good movies as well.
  
  Best sporting movie ever is Mike Bassett: England Manager
  
  Pele at 3.10
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9l4l7Mj_Ek&list=PL0F90BFCBE2F3653C&index=8
  
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  December 30, 2022 8:30am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  A legend, what a football player. I’m not a soccer nut at all, but just last week was making my oldest daughters boyfriend watch you tube clips of Pele and George Best! He was trying to tell me that Messi and Ronaldo were the best (and asked if I’d heard of Maradona!!)
  
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  December 30, 2022 8:46am
- Tony Stuart
  
  No doubt in my mind that Pele was the best to have ever played the game. Had he been able to move around clubs as players like Messi do now, he would have been a superstar in Europe as well as South America. Similarly, he never had the global television exposure Messi enjoys today.
  
  Three World Cups speaks for itself. The football world is vastly poorer without Edson Arantes do Nascimento, aka Pele, the Black Pearl.
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:01am
  - G152
    
    Handy player
    
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    December 30, 2022 9:31am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Tony – that’s one of those impossible debates!! It’s so hard to compare sports legends from different eras. Playing conditions, equipment etc.
    Pele famously said George Best was the greatest player ever.
    
    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/sport/its-mindboggling-how-george-best-and-pele-almost-became-team-mates-at-manchester-united-39193541.html
    
    but of course, at that time we hadn’t seen Ronaldo, Messi, Maradonna. Also because Best played for the minnows, Northern Ireland, he never had the opportunity to play at the highest international level, and of course, his career was greatly curtailed due to his lifestyle and drinking in particular.
    Best does have my some of my favourite quotes from a sports legend though!
    
    If I had to choose between dribbling past 5 players and scoring from 40 yards at Anfield or shagging miss world, it’d be a hard choice. Thankfully, i’ve done both
    
    I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.
    
    In 1969 I gave up women and alcohol – it was the worst 20 minutes of my life.
    
    My father was convinced that the Hungarian Puskás was the greatest player ever, and his record is certainly up there. 83 goals in 84 games for Hungary. He played for Real Madrid and they won the league five years in a row from 51-56. He scored an astonishing 512 goals in 528 appearances for them!!
    
    Here’s a good website which attempts to address the question doing comparisons between Pele and Maradonna and also Ronaldo v Messi. It’s a fascinating read.
    
    https://www.goal.com/en/news/pele-vs-diego-maradona-who-was-better-the-stats-head-to-head/i323ovsgdqhq1a1wx4p381uty
    https://www.britannica.com/biography/Ferenc-Puskas
    
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    December 30, 2022 9:58am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      Its a tough one all right Clan. Best was unbelievably good.
      
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      December 30, 2022 10:05am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        IVV – I love coming across videos of these guys at their peak. Some very clever people have encapsulated the best of their skills, and they are often quite different skill sets.
        
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        December 30, 2022 12:15pm
I remember when

Scientific article in Journal of Applied Ecology found US ranchers lost 5 billion tons of forage between 1990 and 2019.
Trees have cost them 332 million tons of grass.
In Canada, the University of Alberta has qualified grasslands as the ‘world’s most endangered ecosystems.’
Tree cover has increased 50% across the American west in the last 50 years.
More than 90,000 square miles that used to be grasslands are now forest.
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December 30, 2022 8:22am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Ranchlands are not necessarily the same as grasslands. Resident biologist Maggy Wassilief may be able to explain this.
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:26am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I’m not sure of the point you are trying to make here, mma.
    
    The article being referenced doesn’t mention ranchlands.
    
    Herbaceous production lost to tree encroachment in United States rangelands
    
    https://besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1365-2664.14288
    
    but for what it is worth:
    Ranchlands will include agricultural pastures, & croplands as well as open rangelands.
    
    Rangelands are areas dominated by native plants (mainly grasses, low shrubs, perennial forbs) that are grazed and browsed by domesticated &/or wild mammals.
    
    https://www.epa.gov/agriculture/agricultural-pasture-rangeland-and-grazing
    
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    December 30, 2022 12:30pm
    - Mike
      
      Of course, he just mentioned the poor ‘ranchers’ who ate ‘losing’ grazing lands.
      
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      December 30, 2022 2:13pm
pdm

A pleasure to be able to watch New Zealand playing test cricket again.

An excellent batting effort led by Kane Williamson but please, can we leave the reverse sweeps out of it. Save them for the `hit and giggle’ T20 stuff.

Now for the bowlers to finish off the job today – they all looked a bit underdone in the Paki’s first innings.
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December 30, 2022 8:25am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Interesting to hear Chris Harris say last night that Sodhi’s long innings would translate into greater confidence in his bowling. The three spinners should be able to exert significant pressure on the Pakistanis today, and we have seen what happens to the Pakistanis under pressure many times over the years.
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:03am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Sodhi bowled very badly in the first innings. He needs a much better performance otherwise Philipps might be a better option – two allrounders as spinners alongside Patel.
    
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    December 30, 2022 9:29am
    - MCōs
      
      Our bowling attack is pretty ordinary.
      
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      December 30, 2022 10:27am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Needs Boult (when available) and Jamieson (when fit). Needs to play Patel and a spinning allrounder in most tests.
        
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        December 30, 2022 10:42am
    - Cassandra
      
      An uptick for mike!
      
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      December 30, 2022 10:34am
  - pdm
    
    Inv – I heard Harris say that too.
    
    I like Harris as a TV commentator – he stays on point and does not over exaggerate like Simon Doull.
    
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    December 30, 2022 9:47am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Both of them, and their Pakistani colleagues, are better than any of the current Australian commentators.
      
      9 6
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      December 30, 2022 10:20am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Agree. Australian cricket commentators have gone tabloid. Where did the 90 year old bald guy come from?
        
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        December 30, 2022 10:31am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        “Skull”. He is Kerry O’Keeffe, who played test cricket fifty years ago and was occasionally amusing as an ABC radio commentator. Now most famous for having his TV commentary blocked by Asian broadcasters.
        
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        December 30, 2022 10:46am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        How does he offend Asian broadcasters?
        
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        December 30, 2022 10:51am
Clyde

Is there anyone willing to take a punt on what the Liemore Pardy’s tactics will be to ensure that the 5 waters, co-governance, maori health regimes will be almost impossible to unpick?

Just how low will the Red Witch go to ensure that once this lying pack of divisive bastards are thrown out that the underlying thousands of “officials” and inhabitants of these new entitites remain doing their evil work? After all, they will have long contracts in place.

And more importantly, what can National and ACT put forward to ensure that the legions of Liemore sycophants with their snouts in the taxpayer troughs are rooted out to ensure policies are not stymied at every turn?
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December 30, 2022 8:47am
- Nickc2
  
  I tend to agree with you. However, don’t forget, the Govt is the highest Court in NZ and as such, can amend or cancel any laws/conditions these self-proclaimed Maori Elites may have been employed under.
  In addition, I doubt there will be much sympathy for any of them who are given the flick.
  It may take some time and cost a bit of money, but that’s not an excuse not to do it eh?
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:43am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    All of Labour’s near 6 years of nonsense must be wound back by National/Act.
    That 3waters entrenchment thing was a dirty rotten trick. It was just tagged in. No readings, no voting.
    Bastards.
    
    24 3
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    December 30, 2022 10:01am
    - Taieri
      
      All of Labour’s near 6 years of nonsense must be wound back by National/Act.
      ————-
      
      The vast majority of the said “nonsense” won’t be wound back. You can bet on that.
      
      10 2
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      December 30, 2022 10:21am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Yes I fear that you are correct. If ACT is to get three Cabinet positions, my preference is that they take on Education, Environment, and Local Government. David Seymour or Brooke van Veldon as Education Minister. That stupid mega polytechnic needs to go.
        
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        December 30, 2022 11:00am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Well, most of the damaging policy introduced by Labour has an axe hanging over it
        
        7 1
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        December 30, 2022 12:38pm
    - Nickc2
      
      That’s what Tyrants and Dictators do!
      Helen Clark was a saint compared to this one.
      
      6 1
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      December 30, 2022 11:05am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      There will possibly be backlash from the separatist plotters and their fellow travelers. ACT need to plan to deal with that.
      
      6 1
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      December 30, 2022 12:16pm
- Paulus
  
  I do not think that Ardern has the knowledge or no longer cares as to what is being done in her name to New Zealand.
  The sooner she is gone the sooner we can start to clean up the mess she is leaving as the worse Government and Prime Minister in living memory.
  Muldoon was a pussy cat in comparison. ln the longer term he as had some lasting sucesses eg Taranaki.
  
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  December 30, 2022 10:14am
- crikey
  
  Clyde: “And more importantly, what can National and ACT put forward to ensure that the legions of Liemore sycophants with their snouts in the taxpayer troughs are rooted out to ensure policies are not stymied at every turn?”
  
  Use the budget process to reduce the vote for the relevant departments such that they are forced to shed staff (and pay any redundancy from their allocation).
  
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  December 30, 2022 10:15am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Easy. Replace the Public Service Commissioner. Ministers then are free to advise that they have no confidence in the Chief Executive. Replace key Chief Executives who will then replace key executives.
    
    Example… In 2017 the Ministry for the Environment had about 270 staff. It now has about 1100. Over the first three years reduce the staffing budget so that it is sufficient to employ 300 people.
    
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    December 30, 2022 11:07am
- Cassandra
  
  Undoing it will be simple for the politicians and fiendishly difficult for the staff. But that’s their job: get on with it or bugger off. I’ll write a law for it if it’s too difficult for their draftsmen. It’s only been 50 years since law school but drafting is like riding a bike. “Delete Maori and substitute ‘All New Zealanders’ in all laws”.
  
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  December 30, 2022 10:48am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Governments are to set laws, I have heard this that Labour will make it impossible to change, but can’t a new government simply change laws? I realise we are dictated to by the witch
  
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  December 30, 2022 12:36pm
In Vino Veritas

Problem is pdm, the slowness of turn and lack of bounce that our spinners are getting. A decent club player could bat 50 overs on that pitch. In saying that, I bloody hope they win!!
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December 30, 2022 8:51am
- mikenmildagain
  
  And a decent club fielding team might have missed fewer chances than Pakistan.
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:30am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    You do realise mike, that of all the test centuries ever scored, a very, very low percentage of them are chanceless? And the two catches dropped or missed of Blundell cost them nothing.
    
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    December 30, 2022 10:22am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Yes. But they missed a lot of other chances.
      
      3 3
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      December 30, 2022 10:47am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Sodhi 7 alone
        
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        December 30, 2022 12:42pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Sodhi got 7 let offs, if he did not hang around we would not have a chance
      
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      December 30, 2022 12:42pm
- pdm
  
  IVV- Wagner might be the man if he can get it up into the ribcage like that Paki bowler did late in the NZ innings.
  
  As Corparal Jones says – they do not like it up em!!!
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:49am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Don’t panic!
    
    3 6
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    December 30, 2022 10:21am
I remember when

Watchlist idea from Microsoft Start:
“Top Stocks and EFTs with commitment to gender equality.”

Like everybody either makes or loses money on their investment regardless of their sex.
8 3
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December 30, 2022 9:03am
ecco

Be interesting to see what Ardern does next re whether she insists on letting chinese tourists in without testing. That’s after her reign of terror the last 3 years since covid struck.

I know of people, whom voted for her or the Greens, who are terrified of getting covid due to her narrative and have still managed to avoid it. Mainly from staying holed up in their caves, curtailing most normal activities. They will be expecting her to put on the brakes with regard to chinese tourists entering here.

I see her PR department hasn’t gone on any holiday though, with government shill Michael Baker declaring it’s all safe now, don’t need to test the tourists, and then another article in the Ferald today claiming how good the chinese tourists will be for getting airfares down in NZ. Really? Is that the best material they can come up with to justify Ardern’s non action over, at least insisting they test chinese tourists on entering NZ. So we would at least know what we are dealing with.

I’ve no doubt Ardern is in the pocket of Xi. All part of the grand plan to get to the UN. The chinese need as many Ardern types as they can get to ensure they get votes at the UN table for initiatives in the Pacific. So I’m guessing there will be no testing of chinese tourists from Ardern. Will be an interesting time, what with the already overstretched NZ health facilities.
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December 30, 2022 9:12am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Yes, Ardern and her party suck up to the Chinese dictators, nearly as much as the national party and the leaders and ex-leaders do. I think we have still to hear the full story of why the two main parties agreed that neither Raymond Huo nor Jiang Yang would seek re-election two years ago.
  I don’t know if Act, Greens, Māori Party or NZ First have any principles stopping them from receiving cash through ‘united front’ organisations and individuals.
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:36am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Wow, an almost sensible straight comment! Well done.
    
    4 1
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    December 30, 2022 12:18pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Baker is a known liar, one to keep an eye on. He will do whatever Jaspinda tells him..
  See my 9.30 comment above.
  
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  December 30, 2022 10:05am
The Other Enoch

The Road to Zero. Last night two people were killed in a single car accident near Timaru. This week and 180kms away the quite backstreets around Papanui had speed signs erected and painted on the road reducing speed to 30 and 40kph. Can anyone tell me how reducing the speeds on these quite back streets is going to stop accidents like the one in Timaru.
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December 30, 2022 9:16am
- Ghost
  
  No, two people died in a motorcycle accident in timaru. I do find it strange they died in area with a 50kmph speed limit, I would guess they were speeding.
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:25am
  - Matt Long
    
    Don’t tell me when new speed restrictions come into place people can still speed, it’s almost as if screwing over the public doesn’t stop law breaking.
    
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    December 30, 2022 10:34am
- Stellaboxer
  
  @ the other Enoch. No I can’t explain why it will reduce accidents but I can tell you why it’s being done. It’s because it’s easy and visible. It’s just like putting out hundreds of cones and signs it looks like they are busy fixing the roads when in fact very little is actually happening.
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:38am
- Deane Jessep
  
  A friend of a family member who works for NZTA told us that Road to Zero is not about anything other than an excuse to lower speed limits. This is because it lowers wear and tear on our roads and our roads are made of oil byproducts. Something currently in very short supply…
  
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  December 30, 2022 10:44am
ClanMcleod

One Senator in Australia prepared to address the elephant in the room. The failure of the vaccines, the rise in excess deaths, the increasing numbers of vaccine injuries and the failure of politicians to even bother reading the available information.

The Canadian Independent video above features an early-December 2022 Parliamentary speech by Gerard Rennick, senator for Queensland, Australia, and a member of the Liberal National Party.

As noted by Rennick, Australia had logged more than 10 million COVID-19 cases by September 2022, at which point the Australian Health Department stopped counting — a decision made out of embarrassment, Rennick suggests, seeing how more than half the country caught COVID despite the fact that 20 million out of Australia’s total population of 26 million2 got their COVID jabs.

Rennick goes on to highlight the rising excess death rate. In 2021, Australia had 8,706 extra deaths above norm, even though New South Wales remained in lockdown for three whole months. “In theory, the deaths should have been lower, like they were in 2020,” Rennick says.

https://rumble.com/v1ytqx6-australian-senator-gerard-rennicks-amazing-vax-rant-leaves-opposition-parti.html

Pretty much every country in the world is at least acknowledging a couple of things. That the vaccines certainly aren’t doing what was hoped and that there are real concerns around increasing all cause mortality, also happening here in NZ. But NZ is still pushing these dangerous products as if the bullshit claims of 18 months ago are still true.
This isn’t going away. No matter how many people want it to. This is a national disaster and the sooner some MPs and journalists grow a spine and speak out the better. It’s long past time.
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December 30, 2022 9:24am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hadn’t heard of him. He seems to have a fairly typical banana-bender’s mix of craziness mixed with a sprinkling of sound ideas. Thanks.
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:41am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    You obviously didn’t watch the video. He presented provable, authenticated evidence. Unlike the lies the NZ public have been told by Medsafe and the proven liar Michael Baker’s repeated lying.
    
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/Ymw1YXbi1YVZ/
    
    If anything the Senator said isn’t true then explain what and why with evidence. Otherwise go back under your bridge.
    
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    December 30, 2022 10:07am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I don’t watch videos of politicians.
      
      4 20
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      December 30, 2022 10:22am
      - Cassandra
        
        Then you really shouldn’t comment on them, mike.
        
        17 4
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        December 30, 2022 10:50am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Then why did you say “He seems to have a fairly typical banana-bender’s mix of craziness mixed with a sprinkling of sound ideas.”
        
        Confirmation that you are indeed a troll bereft of the ability to discuss or debate rationally. Not that confirmation was needed.
        
        17 4
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        December 30, 2022 10:54am
      - Inandout
        
        m&m, caught out there. You religiously watched Jacinda of the Podium during the plague, and commented thus.
        
        15 4
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        December 30, 2022 10:56am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Inandout
        I did not.
        
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        December 30, 2022 11:46am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Cassandra
        Debating with Kiwiblog’s amateur epidemiologists is a waste of their time, and of my time. I merely noted that this Aussie senator (and the Australian senate is a very strange place) has some very odd view.
        
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        December 30, 2022 11:49am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        You obtain your opinions second hand from loony left propaganda platforms right? No need to listen to the source to confirm you aren’t in receipt of horse poo?
        
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        December 30, 2022 12:21pm
- Salacious Crumb
  
  As I have posited before; it surprises me that our host has not commented on this given (a) the evidence being published internationally and highlighted by people on his blog and (b) given his connection to the National Party. Is the latter because they were also complicit so avoid any discussion? Or is “Get Boosted” their comms manager on all matters Covid response? Surely the likes of Shane Reti must be aware of the published literature which grows increasingly condemning of the broad use of the mRNA vaccines given their inefficacy and overall negative health return?
  Please Mr Farrar – step up and start headlining some of these articles. There are a lot of damaged people out there who have been badly let down by the political class.
  
  14 3
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  December 30, 2022 9:46am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Salacious Crumb – the silence really is deafening. It is obviously too hot to handle and like many of my former friends who gave me grief at the start of the “vaccine” rollout, they don’t want to talk about it.
    To do so would mean having to admit they were wrong. That takes a spine, something few politicians and journalists in NZ possess.
    
    Political expediency trumps honesty and moral courage sadly.
    
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    December 30, 2022 10:59am
- RichardX
  
  https://www.sbs.com.au/language/english/en/article/fact-check-experts-rubbish-senators-deadly-vaccine-claim/f3rolwvxu
  
  4 10
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  December 30, 2022 11:20am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    You link to a “fact checker”………..how about YOU watch the video and tell me which parts were wrong and why, with evidence, use your “fact checker” as a reference. Take your time. The “fact checkers” have been proven to be full of shit far too many times.
    
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    December 30, 2022 11:27am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    I can’t believe I waste 2 minutes of my life reading your link. A typical “fact check” that fails to present any actual facts, instead it leans on provable lies about numbers of covid deaths. The definition of “vaccinate” has been twisted so many times to match the current narrative it is impossible to believe any of their numbers. They are totally implausible. As we found out when we were first told about the difference between dying “with” and “from” covid.
    They also deflect with a partial truth. On one hand they attempt to say there is no excess death then go on to explain excess death by saying it is due to missed medical treatments during lockdowns.
    
    So they are admitting that lockdowns caused deaths, that’s a start. We know the vaccines kill people. Fact. As admitted by NZ Health. Only the numbers are disputed. We know the vaccines injure people as admitted by NZ Health, only the numbers are disputed. We know the vaccines don’t prevent infection and don’t prevent transmission of the virus. All of the things this Senator is stating are facts and he is calling for the stopping of the failed interventions.
    
    What is wrong with anything that he said?
    
    14 3
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    December 30, 2022 11:38am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Evidence that the more you jab the more chance of getting covid.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6zJJ2OVOsE
    
    Get your “fact checkers” on to that. I’ll be interested in how they “debunk” it.
    
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    December 30, 2022 11:48am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    The excess deaths are around a one per cent increase and can be explained by various factors including delayed health treatments during the pandemic, an ageing population and low death rates in 2020.
    There is no evidence vaccines are behind an increase of around 2000 deaths in the expected death rate.
    Morons blathering on YouTube, rumble, substack, bitchute, Kiwiblog et al do not constitute ‘evidence’.
    
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    December 30, 2022 11:53am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      If you are going to cut and paste directly from the “fact checker” posted above, it might be an idea to put it in inverted brackets or “blockquote” it.
      
      Otherwise it looks like plagiarism.//
      
      Unlike you Milkey I actually read stuff before commenting on it.
      
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      December 30, 2022 12:21pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      “can be explained by various factors including delayed health treatments during the pandemic”
      
      You mean as in caused by pointless counter-productive lock-downs, which were strongly advised against by a group of the world’s leading epidemiologists (yet ignored by the midwit leaders and their propaganda partners)?
      
      10 2
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      December 30, 2022 12:25pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        NZer In Exile – talking about counter productive. Read this Twitter thread and remind yourself how insane this shit really was. This is from March 2020 and the inimitable CJ Hopkins.
        Here’s the first tweet for a taster. This one re Denmark.
        
        “As well as enforcing quarantine measures, the law also allows the authorities to force people to be vaccinated, even though there is currently no vaccination for the virus.”
        
        https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1238971734063226881.html?refreshed=1585043649
        
        Never let this shit be forgotten and never let it happen again.
        
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        December 30, 2022 2:10pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      Fact check; Excess deaths throughout the world are running at about 5-15%, not “one percent” see for yourself:
      
      Excess mortality: Cumulative deaths from all causes compared to projection based on previous years
      
      [Mod – fixed link]
      
      7 2
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      December 30, 2022 12:31pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Milkey “borrowed” his “information” from the “fact checker” posted by someone else. He has zero idea how that 1 percent figure was arrived at or where it came from. He cut and pasted it because it seemed to fit his narrative.
        
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        December 30, 2022 1:20pm
      - Ghost
        
        Looks much higher to me
        
        https://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?queryid=104676
        
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        December 30, 2022 1:23pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        NothingLeft – here’s a deep dive into the excess death from el gato malo. It’s a genuine attempt at trying to make sense of a very concerning situation. This is someone who understands science, the milkeys of this world will write them off without reading a word because it messes with their world view. They are terrified of the truth.
        
        after sailing through 2020 and H1 2021 basically untouched there was a sudden and durable change that took place right when vaccination occurred. this is, to be sure, not proof of causality, but it’s quite a thing to ignore as well.
        
        it sure looks like SOMETHING happened. we’re just trying to figure out what.
        
        this made me wonder about other countries.
        
        these are pieced together so scaling may be a little wonky but the color is what you really want to focus on. the shift from blue (low) to orange (excess) is, again strongly pronounced and the timing provocative.
        
        https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/are-covid-vaccines-associated-with
        
        But milkey will tell you “Morons blathering on YouTube, rumble, substack, bitchute, Kiwiblog et al do not constitute ‘evidence’” without once addressing any of the evidence presented. An excellent definition of a troll.
        
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        December 30, 2022 1:38pm
    - Salacious Crumb
      
      Incorrect – the average 17% increase in all causes mortality is definitely able to be linked to the period when mass vaccination programs started. Up until that point the mortality rate stayed static, even during the period of the alpha and delta variants of Covid. The causes for this are being investigated and thankfully, are actually being reported in reputable journals. if you don’t believe this, have a look at the adverse events associated with heart inflammation and thrombosis causing death. These cannot be attributed to underlying conditions in most cases. There is definitely correlation with the covid vaccines which is now also being investigated.
      
      12 1
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      December 30, 2022 12:43pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      If you are going to cut and paste directly from the “fact checker” posted above, it might be an idea to put it in inverted brackets or “blockquote” it.
      
      Otherwise it looks like plagiarism.//
      
      Unlike you Milkey I actually read stuff before commenting on it.
      
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      December 30, 2022 1:09pm
    - bennerg
      
      The “Fact Checking” websites were all outed as to be connected to either Big Pharma or other institutions with something to gain.
      
      There are no independent fact check websites, and if there were, they would not call themselves as such.
      
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      December 30, 2022 3:50pm
BeaB

Interesting that St Greta is being applauded for her ‘legend’ of a ‘takedown’ by saying someone has a ‘small dick’.
Shouldn’t she be well past this kind of puerile insult?
Why do we praise Jacinda and Greta for their coarse sexism when the world would erupt in furious outrage if they were publicly insulted about their genitalia?
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December 30, 2022 9:39am
- Blog-aholic
  
  So true.
  
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  December 30, 2022 9:55am
- ClanMcleod
  
  BeaB – Paul Joseph Watson shreds St Greta and the hypocrisy you point out in this short video.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mivnv4YTjuw&t=202s
  
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  December 30, 2022 10:15am
- Ohm my
  
  If a man is accused of having a small dick, could the real problem be a big vagina?
  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I-vs8fwgwk0
  Only Larry David could make an episode about it.
  
  11 3
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  December 30, 2022 10:17am
- Taieri
  
  Interesting that St Greta is being applauded for her ‘legend’ of a ‘takedown’ by saying someone has a ‘small dick’.
  ———–
  
  The question is: how does she know that the said dick is indeed small?
  
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  December 30, 2022 10:23am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Bea, and the target of her comment gave it back to her in spades.
  Imagine how miserable you’d have to be to partner up to the exceptionally miserable (and angry) Greta?
  
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  December 30, 2022 10:26am
- MCōs
  
  You’re the one who calls her a saint.
  As far as I can make out out she responded to some dick with a particularly clever burn and the guy keeps on digging a hole for himself.
  She stuck up for herself and he couldn’t handle it.
  Neither could you by the the sounds.
  
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  December 30, 2022 10:36am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    You think Greta came up with that? 😅
    
    11 4
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    December 30, 2022 11:07am
    - MCōs
      
      Can’t handle it, eh?
      
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      December 30, 2022 12:06pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Clearly. lol
        
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        December 30, 2022 2:16pm
- Steve Todd
  
  @BeaB @ 9:39AM
  
  Suggesting that Andrew Tate exudes ‘small dick energy’ – google it – a trait that both men and women can possess, is not the same as “saying he has a ‘small dick’.”
  
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  December 30, 2022 11:20am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Bwhahahaha
    
    8 1
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    December 30, 2022 12:47pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Oh, dear. Is this an example of hubris? (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11583711/Andrew-Tates-luxury-villa-Romania-raided-police.html.) I think it might be.
    
    If the subject wasn’t so serious, this second take-down of Tate in two days would be hilarious – like the first one was!
    
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    December 30, 2022 2:15pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    What if they are trans? Or non binary?
    
    3 2
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    December 30, 2022 3:06pm
- Nickc2
  
  Her statement may well have had some element of truth in it if she was comparing its size with her ( instert own word ).
  
  6 4
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  December 30, 2022 11:30am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Boyfriend’s?
    
    6 6
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    December 30, 2022 11:54am
    - Nickc2
      
      Move your apostrophe one space right, and you’ll be in the hunt mike.
      
      6 3
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      December 30, 2022 12:01pm
  - Jack5
    
    It’s a cold winter in Sweden. Maybe Swedish willies are shrinking in the big freeze.
    
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    December 30, 2022 4:26pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Presumably the proper response is to send her a picture demonstrating her fallacy.
  
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  December 30, 2022 11:54am
- Ghost
  
  The guy was being a dick, got the reply he deserved.
  
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  December 30, 2022 12:22pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    It might have been funny if she wrote it herself. Greta is a media construct for “climate change” ideologues to rally around. That’s it. She’s carefully managed, most of the time.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70K4XqXwkq0
    
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    December 30, 2022 3:20pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Scoldilocks the doom goblin is a wealthy developmentally challenged teen with a PR team that stage manages all her interactions – including writing her tweets for her.
  
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  December 30, 2022 12:35pm
  - kiwikidsnz
    
    No matter, it’s an excellent result from an appropriate & wity takedown in Greta’s name & it looks like justice may be served in spades
    
    https://i.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/celebrities/300776045/andrew-tate-and-brother-tristan-reportedly-arrested-in-romania-for-sex-trafficking
    
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    December 30, 2022 4:07pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.
https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/how-councils-are-being-groomed-for-maori-takeover/#comment-703
Bill said that soon after he was elected he had to undergo two fulls day of ‘compulsory’ history lessons, teaching
about the Treaty, historical grievances against Maori etc. As you’d expect, the course was loaded with lies, deceit,
and misinformation.
The lecturers were local Maori.
The course was designed to psychologically break down council members, grooming them.
https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Councils-being-heavily-Maorified.pdf
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December 30, 2022 10:23am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It is all going the wrong direction people!
  
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  December 30, 2022 10:24am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  How is such a course compulsory for our elected representatives?
  
  I’m guessing it actually isn’t but if it is that is yet another reason not to stand for local government.
  
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  December 30, 2022 10:35am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    “How is such a course compulsory for our elected representatives?”
    Simple, if you opt out you will be branded “RACIST!”
    
    12 4
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    December 30, 2022 10:40am
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      If that worries you you shouldn’t be standing anyway.
      
      10 2
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      December 30, 2022 11:55am
      - Jack5
        
        Sorry, downtick in error.
        
        3 0
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        December 30, 2022 4:24pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  It’s a bit sad that elected councillors are intimidated by teachers talking about NZ history.
  
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  December 30, 2022 10:50am
  - Cassandra
    
    If they were teachers it’d be OK. They are not. I’ve experienced this BS, it is awful.
    
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    December 30, 2022 10:53am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I’m sure you took the opportunity to ask questions of the narrative presented. You don’t seem to me like someone who would be easily intimidated intellectually.
      
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      December 30, 2022 11:55am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    I’m intolerant of b.s.ers b.s.ing. if they want to talk about NZ history I’ll be happy to talk about my uncles defending their sorry arses from Hitler.
    
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    December 30, 2022 11:58am
    - Jack5
      
      My family, too. Including the ones left buried overseas.
      
      4 1
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      December 30, 2022 4:24pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Tell em you were elected with a sizable mandate to rid the council of Maori BS, and walk out.
    
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    December 30, 2022 12:05pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    BS selective history, or actual history, warts and all, without fear or favour? I’m thinking most definitely the former.
    
    8 2
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    December 30, 2022 12:28pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      Fortunately, mine too – a grandfather & 4 uncles in WW I, my father, 3 uncles & 5 cousins in WW II.
      
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      December 30, 2022 7:27pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Is that what the Chinese are doing to the Uyghers? Don’t they call them “reeducation camps”? This sounds awfully similar.
    
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    December 30, 2022 12:28pm
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Mike, think harder.
    I have a Maori friend who is right against the devisiveness and division (and with whakapapa back to an ally of the missionaries and who fought many battles against Hauhau, including Moutoa island): he said that when the emotion is all charged, even on falsehoods, you have to be willing to risk a fight to call BS on it.
    
    I have done so from time to time face to face and in correspondence. Pick your battles and it is hard work in any case, picking apart and trying to turn around Maori who talk about the ‘holocaust’ here.
    
    I also have a mate in the public service, who thinks the Maori stuff is increasingly going into the BS realms, but who stated that it is not worth your career to stand up to the Maori-priesthood.
    
    In my experience, people also BELIEVE Maori who talk about Maori history. The public does not know enough to contest facts.
    I have heard some laughable stuff via ‘an old person told me’, like a grave for soldiers who drowned is turned into a battle site and British taken prisoner and the dead buried in the riverbanks ‘standing up’, all retold by the younger Maori. Complete bollocks. But how do you tell them that no everything a brown person says is automatically truth? We live in a post modernist world where Feelz > Facts.
    
    So all of this, from the intimidation, the risk, and the lack of knowledge, means it is hard for average people or politicians to call them out on blatant BS.
    
    There were Treaty workshops in my office too, and I did not attend. They go over Maori lower lifespans (diabetes is caused by racism?) and the bad outcomes they face. Who the hell wants to stand up and point a finger back at them?
    I did not attend as I did not see any point, but an attendee did confirm my suspicion they rolled out the old ‘women and children burnt to death in a church’ as an account of Rangiaowhia. The missing church was actually dismantled in 1933, but as Buddy Mikaere told me long ago “The myth is so ingrained in Maoridom you will never get rid of it”.
    And these days, street are being renamed by angry dimwits based on mostly imagined and poorly understood grievances.
    It would be a full time job to de-programme the modern anger being created in new generations of Maori.
    A terrible thing for NZ is how the half witted and half informed and useful idiots/activists are teaching our history.
    
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    December 30, 2022 12:44pm
    - Mike
      
      I agree with much of what you say. Some modern teachings are as skewed as what I learned back in the day about tha ‘Maoris’, those kind hearted missionaries and ‘good’ Governor Grey.
      As I quoted yesterday, “history is the argument without end.”. Apologies to Clan McLod for no blockqoute or attribution.
      
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      December 30, 2022 2:26pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Well at least you put inverted commas and didn’t try and pretend you wrote it yourself Mike did you……🙈
        
        7 2
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        December 30, 2022 3:28pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Teachers are trying to re-invent history, that’s the problem
    
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    December 30, 2022 12:49pm
Jack5

Tracey Martin, who’s now overseeing Ardern’s merger of TVNZ and Radio NZ, gave the green light for the National Library’s appalling, vandalistic cull of the National Library’s collection.

Josie Pagani points to this in an intelligent article in Stuff today.

Martin was a pioneer member of NZ First. In the 20117-2020 Labour-NZ First Government, she was a Minister with portfolios including Internal Affairs.

Martin’s entry in Wikipedia includes:

“In a 2022 interview Martin revealed she felt relief at New Zealand First’s failure to be re-elected as she was contemplating leaving the party due to increasing policy differences. She stated that she was far closer to Labour politically than the majority of the New Zealand First caucus.

Martin in March last year was put in charge of Labour’s plan to merge TVNZ and Radio NZ.

The Herald reported at the time that, according to Martin, her group would be able to identify what actually would, and would not, work when it came to practical implications of the business case.

The newspaper quoted Martin: “That’s what the talents of this group [sic] is: while the people writing the business case can do it from a technical perspective, [her group of experts] have real life experience.”

Martin worked as a “credit controller” before she married, and was then a home-parent for 15 years.

Her Wikipedia entry includes: “Martin has Maori ancestry through her maternal grandfather.”

Pagani’s Stuff article:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/130870952/josie-pagani-were-more-divided-than-ever–culturally-not-just-economically
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December 30, 2022 11:03am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Could you provide an update please Jack on what has happened to the books that the national library could no longer afford to store?
  
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  December 30, 2022 11:57am
  - Jack5
    
    Thousands – tens of thousands – have been given away or sold.
    
    They are not in the secure and enduring storage they had in the National Library.
    
    Did you buy a few of the crickeet cast-offs, Milky?
    
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    December 30, 2022 12:07pm
    - Jack5
      
      On the argument the Vandal bureaucrats put up and supported by Milky, that national library could no longer afford to store the books …
      
      The disposed books could have been stored in or out of Wellington for the cost of the annual fees of two or three capital city consultants.
      
      The thickos thought that digital books end the need for paper books. Data storage, computers, maintaining and updating software and hardware, probably make this more expensive than storing paper books.
      
      They didn’t do their homework. Long-term digital storage as safe as paper book storage is impracticable as well as impractical.
      
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      December 30, 2022 12:57pm
      - Mike
        
        Can you name a few libraries that never dispose of any books?
        
        3 9
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        December 30, 2022 2:28pm
      - Jack5
        
        Mike repeatedly throws up that question (2.28 post), and I repeatedly answer it.
        
        We are talking here about a national library, a tiny equivalent of the British Library of the US Library of Congress – tiny as befits the size of our democracy.
        
        They do not dispose of books periodically like lending libraries. They keep them as national archives of knowledge and information.
        
        All NZ publishers are legally required to supply copies of new titles – free – to the National Library. Presumably, the Vandals have been giving some of these away.
        
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        December 30, 2022 4:23pm
      - Mike
        
        Perhaps you could instead list a few of the irreplaceable NZ-published titles now irretrievably lost.
        
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        December 30, 2022 6:20pm
      - Jack5
        
        The National Library received all NZ-published titles free as of legal right, and at the publishers’ expense. This created an extensive archive of books published in this country.
        
        Why should the National Library dump any – especially on the excuse that storage space is needed for new books in narrow fields the current librarians think are important?
        
        It has been stated the new focus specifically includes Pacific and Maori titles. Why are many other New Zealand books excluded from this focus?
        
        The space-needed argument is specious. Books don’t have to be stored in the bureaucratic heartland of downtown Wellington. It would be cheap to archive them outside the main cities, and books have survived safely without the mechanised moving shelves of librarians’ dreams.
        
        However, an aside. Apolite inquiry, to Mikenmildagain a.ka. Mike…
        
        You have explained in the past that the two pseudonyms you use, often in the same blog “conversation”, result from your two different log-in methods: normal, and via Patreon.
        
        My question is: Milky, does allow you to make two ticks on each post in a thread?
        
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        December 30, 2022 9:11pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Jack – it is okay for you to just admit you don’t know what books were removed or how valuable they were, or were not, to the national collection.
        I’ve explained many times about the Patreon log-in and how I use downticks or upticks to make it easier to see new comments as I scroll through a thread.
        
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        December 31, 2022 6:10am
      - Jack5
        
        Your avoidance of a direct answer, Milky, suggests you do get the right to give two ticks rather than one.
        If so, that would suggest you can give your own post an uptick!
        
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        December 31, 2022 11:57am
Ghost

Hmmm, seems newshub are calling yesterday record breaking heat, huh? Can’t find any mention of what record.

Relief is on the way after yesterday’s record-breaking heat with cooler air moving up the country.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/12/new-zealand-weather-cooler-air-moves-over-new-zealand-after-record-breaking-day-of-heat.html
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December 30, 2022 11:18am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  What crap that is, look at the temps, only a couple at 30 I remember when I was younger the Alexandra temps use to be mid to high 30s for days on end, much of Canterbury use to be well in the 30s, look at the temps in the north, hardly any in the 30s
  
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  December 30, 2022 12:56pm
Jack5

Thank you to Alan Wilkinson for the flaw yesterday on a numbers blow-out if you calculate the number of your progenitors by doing a maths progression, two grandparents, four great-grandparents and on …

You soon get to the billions.

Alan pointed out each number in the chain isn’t unique. You and your wife can have the same great-great-great grandfather, even if having the same grandfather is much less likely, except for many Pakistanis.

For a quiet Christmas break day – today’s ancestry topic: the Y chromosome, which is passed down father to son right back to cave men days.

Or is it? Apparently it’s got a time limit. Today’s ancestry topic: how long can men remain with the Y chromosome degenerating?

As is obvious, this isn’t my field, but it’s interesting, and several of the posters here have science backgrounds:

https://phys.org/news/2020-07-chromosome-men.html
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December 30, 2022 11:21am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Until the Rapture?
  
  3 14
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  December 30, 2022 11:57am
  - Jack5
    
    What is this “rapture” that’s on your mind, Mike?
    
    I truss you haven’t had a hernia problem. Have you?
    
    7 3
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    December 30, 2022 12:09pm
    - kowtow
      
      He’s trolling , as usual.
      
      12 4
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      December 30, 2022 12:54pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        The Rapture is a ‘mikey’ construct. 🙂
        
        2 3
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        December 30, 2022 7:30pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    The far left have a selective unhinged hatred of Christianity and love pissing on it.
    
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    December 30, 2022 12:31pm
    - Mike
      
      The concept of the Rapture is confined to an overly vocal few sects of a much broader and tolerant chuch.
      
      4 7
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      December 30, 2022 2:31pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        In fact, a fake teaching from a false church. 🙂
        
        2 2
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        December 30, 2022 7:31pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Seems to me that the flaw in the argument is that the same process of mutation that can damage the gene can also repair it and that natural selection will favour repair over damage.
  
  No worry, mate.
  
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  December 30, 2022 12:06pm
103PapPap

Today’s Herald editorial is about potholes and how rain is causing the problem. Who would have thought that our roads were not rain-resistant.
The engineer in me thinks that cost accountants have been in here, and that a more cost effective (read cheaper) asphalt is being used.
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December 30, 2022 12:19pm
- kowtow
  
  Interesting how it must have never rained in NZ before.
  
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  December 30, 2022 4:18pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The material used to build roads is put on hot. The idea is to keep water out.
  Now when there are cracks you will see melted substance along those cracks to re-seal/ re-waterproof the road. Not sure how this is done, but it involves heat.
  For many years this has been happening – band aids.
  
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  December 30, 2022 4:28pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump a Racist Dictator shorts.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kpU-wrF7UyY
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December 30, 2022 12:36pm
Tasman devil

Would Greta Thunderbird say
of our Prime Muppet “she has a small brain?”
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December 30, 2022 1:09pm
- Mike
  
  I think the person Greta was talking about was demonstrably being a dick. Our PM probably has an average brain size for an adult female politician.
  
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  December 30, 2022 2:34pm
Taieri

Where do they get them from…

“Queenstown can be a leader here. We can lead New Zealand and the world.”

He envisioned visitors arriving on electric or hydrogen powered planes, going to their accommodation on hydrogen or electric buses, renting an electric vehicle and moving around town centres by foot, scooter or bike.

All this in 2030…

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/130876380/queenstown-lakes-plan-to-be-worlds-first-zerocarbon-destination-no-offsetting-required
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December 30, 2022 1:18pm
Ghost

Controversial influencer Andrew Tate has reportedly been arrested alongside his brother Tristan in Romania over allegations of human trafficking and rape.

Romanian media reported that police raided the brothers’ villa in the town of Voluntari, north of the capital Bucharest, and took both men into custody – after Andrew Tate left a clue to his location online following a spat with climate activist Greta Thunberg

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/andrew-tate-and-brother-tristan-reportedly-arrested-in-romania-in-human-trafficking-sting/6W37ZOUF75AZ7AFZS22SBOO5KY/
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December 30, 2022 1:31pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Clearly a dickhead. However since the Romanian police previously raided his house in April it doesn’t seem his location was much of a mystery.
  
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  December 30, 2022 1:45pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    timing is interesting – powers that be cannot stomach public dissent, no doubt directions were given at high levels to squash the bug and so kow other trouble makers.
    
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    December 30, 2022 2:40pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      How dare he take the piss out of Greta……..just a coincidence of course!
      
      4 4
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      December 30, 2022 3:45pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      According to Tate (who to be clear is a grade A narcissistic twat), it was an (international) Swatting – an unfounded accusation that women were being held against their will in his home in order to get police to storm his home, no arrest, but he did have to go to police station for 45 minutes to fill in report on the matter:
      https://twitter.com/Lee_Saenz_/status/1608619645342453762
      
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      December 30, 2022 8:41pm
Alan Wilkinson

Average IQ of Stuff comments now well below room temperature. Took my weekly sample on the story about people swimming at “polluted” Corsair Bay.

Stuff readers unable to comprehend that the last three weekly water samples having been clear and that risk following heavy rain is not pertinent actually means swimming there today is not at all risky.

Morons.
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December 30, 2022 1:55pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Jim Jordan Sounds On Biden’s Last-Minute Migrant Rush-Motive Revealed.
He wants to keep Americans welfare dependent and get their Democrat vote.
Labour NZ think the same way. Get immigrants who will work, and keep the tossers on the couch smoking dope.
https://leadpatriot.com/jim-jordan-sounds-on-bidens-last-minute-migrant-rush/20427/
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December 30, 2022 2:03pm
Prince

Among all the Maori words we are being pelted with by the Govt media, the word ‘motu’ has me confused.
As in ‘scorching temperatures were felt across the motu’, ‘happy holidays to all across the motu’ etc.

According to every dictionary, on line and off, I can find, a ‘Motu’ means an island.

So which island is being referred to on the news and weather ? The speaker never specifies.

I suppose accuracy can’t be expected, any more than the weather presenter would know that ‘temperatures will be more cooler’ is not correct grammar.
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December 30, 2022 2:10pm
- Mike
  
  With little knowledge of te reo, my guess is that motu is singular or plural. So “across the motu” would mean across the island or across the islands.
  
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  December 30, 2022 3:14pm
  - Taieri
    
    And there used to be a simple word for all that – “country”.
    
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    December 30, 2022 4:34pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      For which there is the te reo word – whenua
      
      As in: He whenua nui a Russia
      
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      December 30, 2022 5:56pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Singular is ‘te motu’. If using the plural, it is ‘nga motu’
        
        3 1
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        December 30, 2022 7:34pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Maori identify the difference between singular and plural nouns; hence:
    
    te motu – the island
    ngā motu – the islands.
    
    The Manglish version “across the motu” is ambiguous.
    
    Is the entire country being referred to, or just the island where the reporter is or where they previously mentioned?
    
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    December 30, 2022 4:37pm
    - Mike
      
      Thank you. I am more comfortable with English dialects and their amusingly diverse treatment of plural forms. Nice to know ‘motu’ can be used in NZ English as an uncountable noun.
      
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      December 30, 2022 6:25pm
      - Jack5
        
        Allow me to help you there, Mike:
        
        Nice to know ‘motu’ can be used in ~~NZ English~~ NZ Pidgin as an “uncountable noun”.
        
        The grammar of Maori — and English — don’t apply to the NZ Pidgin being created by State TV, State radio, and subsidised newspapers. Pidgin grammars, just, well, evolve, and there are no written authorities. If “motu” is used as singular AND plural in NZ Pidgin, no problem. However, if Radio NZ should decide it will be “motu” singular, and “motus” plural, and other Woke follow, then that will be okay, too.
        
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        December 30, 2022 9:16pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Little knowledge my left tit. You dam well know “motu” means Island. It has been forced upon us, but you missed out Mike, Great! How do we isolate from this and understand straight out ENGLISH?
    Parents are now teaching their children this, and if or when the kids go for the great OE, the rest of the World will not understand the ‘New R. T. Rower language.
    Yeah, end of rant.
    
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    December 30, 2022 5:09pm
- greybeard
  
  What is maori for “holidays” ?
  And “temperature” ?
  And “Scorching” ?
  And “wheel”, “book”, “alphabet”, “writing”, “metallurgy”, “ceramics”, “world”, and most important of all: “truth”.?
  
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  December 30, 2022 6:17pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

BREAKING NEWS: DONALD TRUMP’S SUBPOENA DROPPED BY CONGRESs
I wonder actually why? Starting to look like media manufactured news for ratings.
https://libertyonenews.com/breaking-news-donald-trumps-subpoena-dropped-by-congress/
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December 30, 2022 2:27pm
- Mike
  
  Old news. Dropping it before new house assembles.
  
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  December 30, 2022 3:16pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Are the Democrats retracting because they will get their arse on a plate?
    
    6 3
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    December 30, 2022 5:11pm
    - Mike
      
      No.
      
      2 4
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      December 30, 2022 6:32pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Some fun with Greta. Really it is time she found a guy a did serios bonking instead of chasing fame. Nothing without a teleprompter, she can not think for herself.
https://twitter.com/Cobratate/status/1607679211233214464
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December 30, 2022 2:40pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  [Mod – no need for a post like that]
  
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  December 30, 2021 4:18pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I am sure she has found that male thing – and likes it.
    
    2 7
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    December 30, 2022 5:24pm
  - MCōs
    
    Well isn’t that typical?
    When all else fails resort to loathsome sexual attacks.
    You do realize that Andrew Tate who started these attacks on Greta Thunberg has subsequently be arrested and charged with a slew of sex trafficking, rape, kidnapping offenses
    Guess his 33 cars weren’t fast enough . . . .
    No doubt every woman who pokes a bloke in the eye knows exactly what sort of retaliation to expect from violent husbands, boyfriends, jumped up dickheads on the Internet . . . . .
    
    5 3
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    December 30, 2022 5:44pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    gross. Sure she’s a puppet for a malignant millennialist doomster agenda, but she’s also a damaged little human that should be just generally ignored for her own sake (if she is to have any chance of happiness long term).
    
    5 5
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    December 30, 2022 6:10pm
DimChappie

The Platform has put up a paywall for its podcasts and opinion pieces but some stuff is still on youtube. In this one, a Mongrel Mob member demands the right to swastikas on mobster graves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d-YA4ahyIc

Listen from the 2min mark, he raves about land theft, colonialism and the cross. Blames whitey for abuses which led to the mob’s creation.
9 2
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December 30, 2022 3:03pm
- kowtow
  
  Mob adoption of the hated Nazi symbol, the swastika ,( how strange , an appropriation of a European extremist political symbol ) was a deliberate “fuck you” to all things decent and mainstream New Zealand .
  
  9 3
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  December 30, 2022 4:14pm
Swifty

Attention Tony/KS,

In Wanganui for the night. Just had a quick drive around town, the place is looking good.

Swifty
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December 30, 2022 3:48pm
- Swifty
  
  Half way through a scoff at Momiji.
  
  Very good.
  
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  December 30, 2022 6:32pm
Sparrow

As an atheist I am beginning to wonder if there is somebody up there looking after us.
Apparently the Sussex’s were contemplating setting up shop in NZ. Can you imagine the “Terrible Three” Cindy, Ginger Whinger
Putins Russia would have become attractive.
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December 30, 2022 3:54pm
- Ghost
  
  They would never come here, no money to make here for Me Gain, no one would care about her
  
  10 1
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  December 30, 2022 5:14pm
  - Mike
    
    We did promote Rod and Rachel to princely status IIRC.
    
    1 1
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    December 30, 2022 6:36pm
Taieri

How to stay relevant in the rapidly changing world…

“An epidemiologist is warning New Zealand needs to start preparing now for an expected influx of winter illnesses, based on what the northern hemisphere is going through right now.”

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/otago-uni-professor-warns-incoming-winter-illness-syndemic
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December 30, 2022 6:18pm

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