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December 24, 2022 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 24 December 2022

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General Debate

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CJames

I see all the agencies are getting in on the cynical Xmas holiday document dump, hoping that the holidays hide the controversy until the anger dies and it’s too late to do anything. First the government has 130 pages extra of changes to the 5 Waters bill. It includes water charges (aka rent) and eyewatering fines for non-compliance. They were introduced straight after the bill was passed, proving that the original bill was both hasty and had an even more hidden agenda than Nanaia let on. Then the Waitangi Tribunal wants all “Crown” land up north given back to Maori, because the chiefs thought they were in co-governance when they signed the treaty. To complete the trifecta, an activist judge reserving a case since February , comes out with a ruling after Parliament has risen saying Parliament got it wrong about 501s on parole in NZ.
There is very little reporting of these on the news – Jeremy Clarkson’s walk of shame is more important. In the vacuum, there is almost no commentary or analysis of the implications, even by the blogs. So the tactic was successful, at least initially.
If people wonder why there is disdain if not contempt for the elites, and populism takes off, just point them to actions like this.
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December 24, 2022 8:00am
- ClanMcleod
  
  And the collapse of trust in the mainstream media.
  
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  December 24, 2022 8:29am
- GJM
  
  And the police have a “consultation ” on firearms license charges. The intent is clear that they want to price legal ownership out of NZ.mthere will be no more gun shows, shooting clubs or ranges, historical reenactments, displays in museums, etc. the gangs of course won’t bother
  If you are a license holder, have your say.
  https://www.police.govt.nz/about-us/programmes-and-initiatives/consultation-arms-regulations-review-fees-2022
  
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  December 24, 2022 8:31am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Luckily there are plenty of people publishing full weekly summaries of parliamentary and government business. It’s good of you to subscribe to one or two of those services and select some highlights to pass on to your fellow outraged.
  
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  December 24, 2022 8:44am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Oh no, it’s going to be one of ‘those’ days.
    
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    December 24, 2022 8:49am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Kia ora, Steve. Just a usual day here in paradise, I think.
      
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      December 24, 2022 8:59am
      - Jack5
        
        Milky’s ….a usual day here in paradise…
        
        DPF isn’t holding you as some sort of prisoner, is he, Milky?
        
        If we can’t break you out we might at least smuggle into you some comics to read. 🙃
        
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        December 24, 2022 11:59am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Not at all, Jacksie.
        
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        December 24, 2022 2:13pm
    - Its only I
      
      There is another way to look at it.
      While the Mike is focused posting the live in minder gets to have a break.
      Let’s keep the Mike busy and help out, atleast long enough for them to have a coffee and a quick scan of the job market.
      
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      December 24, 2022 9:29am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        That’s a very astute comment.
        
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        December 24, 2022 11:01am
    - wilderbeast
      
      [Mod – it is much easier to deal with people when you ignore them. People that pile on add to it then become part of the problem. If you have an issue with a post report it, or address a post to a Mod so they see it.]
      
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      December 24, 2022 4:48pm
  - I remember when
    
    mikenmildagain
    Please provide a list of these full weekly summaries of parliamentary and government business.
    Also the likelihood of most people having access to these sources.
    
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    December 24, 2022 10:04am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      There are lots of subscription services available such as:
      Select Committee News
      Capital Letter
      Judgments Express
      Trans Tasman
      etc
      
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      December 24, 2022 11:00am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Mike Woods?
        
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        December 24, 2022 6:10pm
  - Media hater
    
    Well you’re obviously not bothered, so why are you here again?
    
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    December 24, 2022 10:52am
  - Thought Criminal
    
    Imagine observing this government’s distant relationship with the truth and recommending summaries of parliamentary and government business.
    
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    December 24, 2022 11:08am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The Waitangi Tribunal wanting all of the Crown Land up north to be given back to Maori, because the chiefs thought they were in co-governance when they signed the Treaty. Article One makes it very clear:
  Article one:
  “The chiefs of the confederation of united tribes, and the other chiefs who have not joined the confederation, cede to the Queen of England forever the entire sovereignty of their country.”
  It is covered in ‘Stop Co-Governance’ Post today.
  Dr Bruce Moon, historian, will comment tomorrow.
  
  https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/
  
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  December 24, 2022 8:48am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Do you prefer his writings to Dr Paul Moon?
    
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    December 24, 2022 9:00am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      A word of explanation:
      Dr Bruce Moon is not an historian; he is a retired physicist.
      Dr Paul Moon is an actual historian specialising in Māori history, the Treaty of Waitangi and the early period of Crown rule. His publications include
      biographies of Hone Heke, James Busby, Hobson, FitzRoy, Hohepa Kereopa, Hone Heke Ngapua, Rua Kenana and Haane Manahi.
      His other books include:
      The Path to the Treaty of Waitangi
      The Treaty and its Times 1840–1845
      Fatal Frontiers: A New History of New Zealand in the Decade Before the Treaty
      The Newest Country in the World: A History of New Zealand in the Decade of the Treaty
      The Struggle for Tamaki Makaurau: Auckland to 1820
      This Horrid Practice: The Myth and the Reality of Traditional Māori Cannibalism
      The Edges of Empires: New Zealand in the Middle of the Nineteenth Century
      A Savage Country: The Untold Story of New Zealand in the 1820s.
      Encounters: The Creation of New Zealand.
      The Voyagers: Remarkable European Explorations of New Zealand.
      Ka Ngaro Te Reo: Māori Language Under Siege in the 19th Century
      The Waikato: A History of New Zealand’s Greatest River
      
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      December 24, 2022 10:53am
      - Taieri
        
        Dr Paul Moon is an actual historian specialising in Māori history
        ————
        
        Have you read his books?
        
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        December 24, 2022 11:42am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Sometimes some very smart and clever people have so much tunnel vision they have no clue as to what they are talking about.
        https://www.democracyaction.org.nz/bruce_moon_talks_on_the_treaty
        
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        December 24, 2022 12:51pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Not all of them,
        
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        December 24, 2022 2:13pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Meanwhile, Keith Moon was a drummer for The Who
        
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        December 24, 2022 3:25pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    It is astounding that a Treaty that so clearly states that there is no Co governance is being used to justify Co governance. How did that happen?
    
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    December 24, 2022 9:02am
    - Rich Prick
      
      Leftist doublethink explains a lot of the insanity and hypocrisy we see these days.
      
      42 2
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      December 24, 2022 9:26am
      - Matt Long
        
        Post modernist thinking, no absolute truths, just my truth, the spirit of the treaty, a living document.
        Bad precedents built on top of bad precedents.
        UN ideology being implemented by globalists in government.
        
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        December 24, 2022 10:04am
      - Thought Criminal
        
        Plus anyone who is offended automatically trumps anyone who only brings facts.
        
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        December 24, 2022 11:21am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        “the spirit of the treaty, a living document.”
        
        Yes. Pure voodoo slipped in as settled truth by troughers who should know better.
        
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        December 24, 2022 6:12pm
    - Nickc2
      
      We let it happen. The Waitangi Tribunal should have been disbanded years ago after so-called initial settlements. Those who didn’t settle, tough luck.
      Then, when Maori Academics started advocating for more handouts and claims. such endeavours should have been nipped in the bud and not allowed to fester. We should never have signed UN Convention 2030 no matter what.
      In addition, Maori Parliamentary Seats should have been abolished when Maori formed their own Political Party. Maori Language should never have been given legs in Govt agencies and organisations and its teaching should have become totally dependent on Maori with nominal funds and facilities paid for by the Taxpayer.
      IMO, 3Waters has divided my country of birth like nothing else in my lifetime. It has legalised theft, corruption, and separatism and MUST be terminated at all costs.
      Maybe then we can get back to establishing this country as prosperous, free, and forward-looking.
      
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      December 24, 2022 9:28am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Welfare. Keep handing it out for Political gain, and they will demand more.
        Welfare is to help people up, not pay for their lifestyle.
        
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        December 24, 2022 9:58am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        And just how was any of this to be achieved?
        
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        December 24, 2022 10:20am
      - Bob
        
        never have signed UN Convention 2030 …
        This UN document was aimed at third world countries and similar, who were perpetually at war with each other and within themselves; not at developed countries.
        NZ was well ahead of the intent of the UN Declaration; which was, subsequent to signing, hijacked by radical activists for their own agenda. Are you comprehending this Jacinda and Mahuta?.
        
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        December 24, 2022 11:43am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        “We should never have signed UN Convention 2030 no matter what.”
        
        That can easily be tossed out. Just announce to the people that will be done if elected.
        
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        December 25, 2022 12:46pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Radicals bending and twisting facts, which are further distorted by the Fake News Media. Repeat something enough times and the feeble minded take it as ‘fact.’
      
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      December 24, 2022 9:30am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      If that were a serious question, Benedict, there are several books that provide some helpful background.
      
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      December 24, 2022 9:35am
    - Bob
      
      We no longer teach comprehension skills in our schools.
      
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      December 24, 2022 11:39am
  - pdm
    
    Time we went back to the basic Treaty of Waitangi and scrapped allof the re-interpretations that suit vested interests and activists.
    
    Particularly pakeha activists with agendas probably not unlike the mid 1800’s..
    
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    December 24, 2022 9:21am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Below is the Treaty of Waitangi. This is the Littlewood draft, which is the final draft from which the Maori version was made. The Maori version is called Te Tiriti. The Maori version is THE Treaty. So if you want to
      know what the Maori version says, read the Littlewood draft. There are only three articles in the Treaty, and here they are.
      Article one:
      “The chiefs of the confederation of united tribes, and the other chiefs who have not joined the confederation, cede to the Queen of England forever the entire sovereignty of their country.”
      Article two:
      “The Queen of England confirms and guarantees to the chiefs and the tribes and to all the people of New Zealand, the possession of their lands, dwellings and all their property. But the chiefs of the Confederation of the United Tribes and the other chiefs grant to the Queen, the exclusive rights of purchasing such lands as the proprietors thereof may be disposed to sell at such prices as may be agreed upon between them and the person appointed by the Queen to purchase from them.”
      Article three:
      “In return for the cession of their sovereignty to the Queen, the people of New Zealand shall be protected by the
      Queen of England and the rights and privileges of British subjects will be granted to them.”
      
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      December 24, 2022 9:33am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        A Highschool kid could understand this.
        I wonder why it is not taught?
        
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        December 24, 2022 9:34am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        The ‘Littlewood Treaty’ is of small relevance to what was understood and agreed on 6 February 1840. Which books have you read that discuss the treaty-making process in any depth?
        
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        December 24, 2022 9:38am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Mike, I don’t need to read books of opinions and propaganda.
        I can think and comprehend for myself.
        
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        December 24, 2022 10:02am
      - rouppe
        
        And you, Mike along with all those authors, fail to apply blind obvious context.
        
        Queen Victoria did not do power sharing. She did not treat anyone as her equal, and certainly did not consider any part of her realm equal.
        
        Who on earth in their right mind would think she would agree to an arrangement where her influence was not absolute?
        
        Look at any other country that has ever been colonised. What makes anyone think the Crown would switch from that to something completely different?
        
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        December 24, 2022 10:15am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        So which book about the Littlewood Treaty did you read?
        
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        December 24, 2022 10:38am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Rouppe, which books are you citing? I haven’t cited any authors in support of my views, but you may feel the need to bolster your romantic notions about the power of a 20-year-old 19th century ~~German~~English monarch.
        
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        December 24, 2022 2:18pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        It all got changed when the Crown changed the “rules”.
        The Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975 passed by the Lange Labour lead government
        and further amendments
        
        This legislation created the Waitangi Tribunal
        Its what lead to the BS about Partnership etc etc
        
        So you are pissing in the wind referring to the treaty not saying this or that.
        
        The Crown(Labour Government) following due process. Changed the rules/interpretations.
        
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        December 24, 2022 5:53pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Since you try to give the impression you are some kind of oracle Milky, give us a succinct summary of why you think the in your face and simple treaty is not what it seems. Avoid waffle and arm waving (IE your usual straw-man type deflections and innuendo).
        
        Impress us.
        
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        December 24, 2022 6:17pm
  - Paulus
    
    Look at the National precedent that this judgement produces.
    Typical activist Judge
    
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    December 24, 2022 10:41am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Which ‘Judge’ in particular are you commenting about?
      
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      December 24, 2022 2:18pm
- kowtow
  
  The media signed up to ‘active protection of principles of ToW ‘ when they took the 30 pieces of silver .
  
  We literally have a regime funded , activist media .
  
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  December 24, 2022 8:53am
- NK
  
  100% CJames. Well said.
  
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  December 24, 2022 8:56am
- Ra Henare
  
  Another reason to live in a Buddhist country, where the 25th December is just another day.
  
  Amazes me how NZ effectively closes down for 2 months (December/January) because of some dogma about a supposed Christian Event.
  
  I blame both the government for approving the ridulousness of closing down and the Corporations who see it as a great opportunity to flog crap to residents.
  
  Disclosure. I owned a Christmas Product importing/exporting business for 5 years.
  Hence my severe distaste for the whole thing and removing myself from the toxic environment
  
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  December 24, 2022 3:12pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    a Christmas Product importing/exporting business
    
    Just out of curiosity – what did you export and where to?
    
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    December 29, 2022 8:49am
Yvette

To justify “co-governance” and other agendas it is often said –
It was National, at the request of its governing partner, Te Pāti Māori, that signed up to the UN declaration in 2010

_– but little has been done to progress it in the years since. is because while Labour will say National “signed us up” Labour, with a typical half-truth, fails to remind anyone what we were (non-binding) “signed up” to –

■ National Govt to support UN rights declaration
Government Release
Prime Minister John Key announced today the New Zealand Government has given its support to the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.
The decision to support the declaration was conveyed in a speech today by the Minister of Maori Affairs, Dr Pita Sharples, to the United Nations in New York.
“New Zealand has always supported the overall aspirations of the declaration, and we already implement most provisions contained within it,” says Mr Key.

The statement in support of the declaration:
• acknowledges that Maori hold a special status as tangata whenua, the indigenous people of New Zealand and have an interest in all policy and legislative matters;
• affirms New Zealand’s commitment to the common objectives of the declaration and the Treaty of Waitangi; and
• reaffirms the legal and constitutional frameworks that underpin New Zealand’s legal system, noting that those existing frameworks define the bounds of New Zealand’s engagement with the declaration.

“As a Government, we can be proud of the fact that we have worked through any difficulties supporting the declaration have presented,” says Mr Key.
“While the declaration is non-binding, it both affirms accepted rights and establishes future aspirations. My objective is to build better relationships between Maori and the Crown, and I believe that supporting the declaration is a small but significant step in that direction.
“This move will not compromise the fundamentals of this Government’s approach to resolving Treaty claims, and its work with Maori and all New Zealanders on the many challenges we face,” says Mr Key.
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/national-govt-support-un-rights-declaration

■ “The Government must stay in this waka and keep paddling” – Anjum Rahman, the project co-lead at Inclusive Aotearoa Collective Tāhono
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/pro/co-governance-plan-kicked-down-the-road-to-2024?
Open Letter “To the New Zealand Government”
https://medium.com/actionstation/open-letter-continue-work-on-the-united-nations-declaration-on-the-rights-of-indigenous-peoples-4f3c1e19b068

Since Pita Sharples announced the bounds of New Zealand’s engagement with the Declaration would be the Treaty, what waka is Anjum Rahman urging Willie Jackson to stay in and to keep paddling?
To use the vernacular: it is not the same waka as Pita Sharples and John Key were paddling.`

To tell half the truth is to tell a whole fucking lie – Yvette
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December 24, 2022 8:01am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “typical Half Truth” LOL!
  Is that a bit like Jaspinda’s lies by omission?
  
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  December 24, 2022 9:38am
- Its only I
  
  I think your posts valuable as they expose the way Labour distort history on so many levels.
  
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  December 24, 2022 9:48am
pdm

CJames.

I think the correct name is:
3/5/ALLWATERS.
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December 24, 2022 8:07am
- Nickc2
  
  Maori Water?
  
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  December 24, 2022 8:18am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Will be soon if it is not rejected.
    
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    December 24, 2022 9:40am
  - Yvette
    
    Nicke@ – it would seem so …
    “Waikato Awa [River] will always be part of the Kiingitanga. It is who we are … We live on the river; by the river and for the river. So too does every iwi in Aotearoa – kei a taatou te mana o te wai. I will say it again – Te Iwi Maaori owns the water.  “We are prepared to share our taonga for the wellbeing of all. But it must be done on our terms and our tikanga — that is our way.”
    – Kiingi Tuheitia, told his influential audience at Ngaruawahia in August, at the 16th anniversary celebrations of his coronation
    
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    December 24, 2022 11:21am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Tell that to Tuwharetoa, who assert customary rights to Lake Taupo.
      
      Perhaps Tuwharetoa should block off the Huka Falls & divert the water down the Wanganui.
      
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      December 24, 2022 3:31pm
  - G152
    
    Will be our urination
    
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    December 24, 2022 12:32pm
  - leoj
    
    Maori taking the piss……..
    
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    December 24, 2022 1:38pm
Stellaboxer

Merry Christmas to all you bloggers!
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December 24, 2022 8:21am
Mike H S

I read in the UK papers that the Border Force have gone on strike and have been replaced by the Army and Navy. All passengers have had quicker, more efficient and more pleasant experiences and normal queues have disappeared.

How going on strike can really ruin your reputation and show how useless you were in the first place.
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December 24, 2022 8:31am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Some years back Corrections Staff went on strike and the Army was sent in.
  
  Prisoners said that they were looked after far better and treated far better by the Army personnel than they were by Corrections.
  
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  December 24, 2022 9:42am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    The prisoners liked the Army over correction staff because the soldiers not being trained correction officers gave them pretty much anything they wanted and fell for all their scams. If the prisoners like you you’re doing something wrong.
    
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    December 24, 2022 12:03pm
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    A mate of mine was in the army when they stepped in to cover prison duty. He said a prisoner snarled at him through the bars “FUCK YOU, Rambo!”.
    He spun around holding his imaginary sub-machine gun and went “Dakdakdakdakdakdak!!”.
    The prisoner at least laughed.
    
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    December 24, 2022 12:22pm
- Southern Raider
  
  Went through Auckland Airport (domestic) and they had a big flash Xmas themed pull up banner which looked like it probably cost $10K to design and make. It was titled “find our explosive detector dog” and was like a where’s Wally type graphic
  
  Since when have AvSec ever been there to detect explosives and I’ve never seen a dog at an airport except for MPI which was to find fruit?
  
  Seems AvSec management think they are more important than they actually are
  
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  December 24, 2022 9:42am
  - Taieri
    
    Since when have AvSec ever been there to detect explosives
    ————
    
    A very common practice in Australia (WA and NT).
    
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    December 24, 2022 11:43am
kevn

@pdm… Think of 3-5 whatever Waters as labours death knell.
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December 24, 2022 8:48am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  One can only hope.
  
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  December 24, 2022 8:50am
- NK
  
  National has said it will be repealed “and replaced”. Remember that very carefully.
  
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  December 24, 2022 8:57am
  - Nickc2
    
    Replaced with what?
    
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    December 24, 2022 8:59am
    - Colville
      
      No.
      The legislation is important for RMA work, and development will stop without it. If you want to to a subdivision and discharge to a river for instance there must be a process to follow. So it needs to be replaced or the planning will reach a point where a question or test cannot be resolved.
      But it needs to be replaced with something that is colourblind and fair to all. Something that dosent allow for rent seeking elites to clip the ticket just for being brown.
      
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      December 24, 2022 10:00am
    - MCōs
      
      They’ll remove the co governance factor.
      Basically they’ll do as little as possible. Fiddle around the edges.
      It’s a populist vote winner/loser issue that’s fallen in the Nats lap.
      
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      December 24, 2022 12:34pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Initially, it was reported that a NAT/ACT Govt would ‘repeal’ 3Waters legislation (revoke or annul (a law or act of parliament).
        Laterly, it’s reported that a NAT/ACT Govt will ‘replace’ 3Waters legislation (put something back in a previous place or position) and that’s what scares me.
        I’m a NAT supporter through and through and I want to know what their intention is without having our MSM tinker around the edges attempting to spin the intention in favour of Maori.
        
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        December 24, 2022 12:50pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Does that mean reverting to the previous arrangements?.
    
    The government should amend the local government act to state that Councils must prioritise the maintenance of water assets.
    
    Look at Wellington. Wrecked pipes yet there is a council led by a communist spraying money around on vanity projects. Just make that unlawful. If it continues sack the council.
    
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    December 24, 2022 9:15am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      A communist? Is she proposing to seize farms and liquidate the kulaks?
      
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      December 24, 2022 9:40am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Talks like a communist. Communist. Anyway give her whatever label you like. Her policies are a nightmare.
        
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        December 24, 2022 9:44am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        If she gets a third term Democracy is history.
        South Venezuela/Zimbabwe.
        
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        December 24, 2022 9:47am
      - Matt Long
        
        The neo Marxists have the same aims but use regulation instead of guns.
        
        12 3
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        December 24, 2022 10:07am
      - Aquarius
        
        Can I enter a plea with the Mods
        There is one poster on KiwiBlog whose posts are invariably infantile and moronic, and even when ignored make the blog far less pleasant than it would otherwise be
        I never thought I’d be into ‘deplatforming’ but I suppose there has to be an exception to prove every rule
        
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        December 24, 2022 12:26pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Aquarius, when you have been reading Kiwiblog for a bit longer you might realise that it is more of a comedy forum than the echo chamber for some particular types of social and political you might have imagined it to be.
        
        1 11
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        December 24, 2022 2:22pm
      - Humble Capitalist
        
        Must be a quiet day down at the resthome Mikey. Lawn bowls might be a better option but we would really miss you
        
        8 1
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        December 24, 2022 3:03pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        “Is she proposing to seize farms and liquidate the kulaks”
        
        By a thousand cuts, more or less, bit by bit, under the guidance of the tiny minority racial party, yes.
        
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        December 24, 2022 6:19pm
      - Aquarius
        
        [Mod – doesn’t help us when people do this ]
        
        0 0
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        December 24, 2022 8:42pm
    - Swifty
      
      National should repeal general competency powers.
      
      17 1
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      December 24, 2022 9:40am
      - Bob
        
        Powers of General Competence was Clarkes major mistake , one of many, during her term of office.
        What the powers did do, was to expose the general incompetence of most councils.
        
        7 0
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        December 24, 2022 11:51am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Rainbow pedestrian crossing?
      
      16 2
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      December 24, 2022 9:45am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        With The Honkler supervising the crossing?
        
        0 0
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        December 25, 2022 12:50pm
    - Colville
      
      Bene. Sack the council and then what? Where do you get the skills to manage those assets better and cheaper?
      It’s a easy thing to say but a hard thing to do.
      
      6 3
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      December 24, 2022 10:02am
      - Paulus
        
        No – look what has happened in Tauranga with Mahuta’s appointed Commissioners.
        The place is a wreck with spending like we have never envisaged but we have no say in the Mahuta aspiration, including more Maorification, and cost to the Ratepayers.
        The Commissioners will be gone in 2024, maybe, so they have no responsibility for their decisions and we pay.
        
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        December 24, 2022 10:54am
    - Master Mariner
      
      I think the real issue is, How much critical infrastructure has been delayed or shelved by all councils due to 3 waters ?
      I would be picking quite alot.
      In which case may take years to play catch up , not mentioning the costs.
      What a shambles.
      
      17 0
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      December 24, 2022 10:19am
      - artemisia
        
        A very good point MM. Of course councils will find plenty of reasons to slow down water infrastructure maintenance so they can hand over as much as possible to taxpayers and iwi. Wash hands of it, not our problem. Makes complete sense. Not that they would say so publicly of course.
        
        Meanwhile there are super sized handouts from taxpayers to compensate for water assets, bet all spent or earmarked.
        
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        December 24, 2022 12:05pm
    - MCōs
      
      Don’t jump the gun.
      The present administration has been in place for two months and hasn’t passed its first budget yet.
      
      1 9
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      December 24, 2022 12:37pm
  - pdm
    
    NK – National/ACT should entrench the position after repeal so that any future Labour Government cannot privatise water and water infrastructure ever again.
    
    22 2
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    December 24, 2022 9:24am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Hear hear, what that Man said.
      
      10 1
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      December 24, 2022 9:50am
- pdm
  
  I do kevin – I do.
  
  5 1
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  December 24, 2022 9:30am
Cassandra

Recent Waitangi Tribunal report sets cats (pl) among pigeons. Ngapuhi did NOT cede sovereignty; treaty IS a partnership; Crown should return all land to the tribe. Must be a different treaty from the one I read. More to follow I suspect.
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December 24, 2022 8:54am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Yep, see the stop co-governance post.
  
  12 0
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  December 24, 2022 10:05am
- Paulus
  
  More Waitangi precedent created nationally !
  
  10 0
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  December 24, 2022 10:55am
  - Bridgenag
    
    All the blokes at bowls are keeping their guns just in case……..
    
    4 0
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    December 24, 2022 1:55pm
- nathie
  
  Question: Because the judiciary (and govt and health and education sectors etc etc) are in lock-step with for example the Treaty being a partnership (and every other woke agenda) ….. does this mean that Crown lawyers are actually 100% on the side of the Waitangi Tribunal and are not disputing anything?
  
  If so, could the Waitangi Tribunal go to the next step and declare that “actually, Maori tribes rule NZ” … and Crown lawyers meekly say “āe” (yes)???
  
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  December 24, 2022 12:18pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Of course the Waitangi Tribunal only makes recommendations to the Government.
  
  Its long overdue for a Tribunal review as to structure and limits on authority.
  
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  December 24, 2022 5:57pm
ClanMcleod

I shared a link yesterday to a post by el gato malo regarding the drops in birth rates in various places.

cmm offered some good thought on the subject but was skeptical re how much of this drop in births was connected to the vaccine.

Instead I think it is largely down to Western education and changes in reproductive patterns. The young adults who are at peak fertility and should be popping out kids (25-35 for Westerners) are the first wave of those who have endured the worst barrage of messaging on environmentalism/climate change/white guilt as well as remaining single and leading a self-absorbed and more hedonistic life. Those who are breeding are reducing their numbers and breeding later in life.

This is the author’s follow up. Their key point is that although correlation is not causation, there are enough alarm bells being sounded that the health authorities should be all over this in an attempt to find out what is going on. I agree.

now, as we all know, correlation is not proof of causality. to really start to find it meaningful, you need a set of independent, a priori reasons to suspect the relationship. otherwise, you’re just often data mining yourself into spurious assumptions.

but, as was laid out HERE there are lots and lots of reasons to suspect this from suppressed sperm to disrupted menses to ovary and testes accumulation of mRNA spike from vaxx.

here is yet another study of such and like so many other in this space, the “results” claim is a bit misleading and they sort of buried a huge outcome under an assumption lacking foundation.

The relevant links are in the post for anyone interested in reading it.

https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/quick-updates-on-covid-vaccine-fertility?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=323914&post_id=92310343&isFreemail=true&utm_medium=email
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December 24, 2022 8:59am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The bit about the Menstrual Cycle is interesting. More bleeding and more pain.
  Fuck, we have enough “Karens” now.
  
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  December 24, 2022 10:10am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Good thing my Partner is 63.
    
    10 1
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    December 24, 2022 10:11am
    - Biscuit
      
      Steve, my partner is – and always has been – 4 months older than me.
      
      And I’m 70 now…
      
      She was a tad late bringing me my coffee and cake just before – I had to wait, gasp, a whole minute and a quarter! – so I quipped to her that I was thinking of upgrading her to ‘a Steve model’…
      
      I am thinking that was NOT a look of love she flashed back!
      
      Happy Christmas to you and (comparative) Spring Chicken…
      
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      December 24, 2022 11:19am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I think you’ve outlived your toyboy status.
        
        15 0
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        December 24, 2022 11:39am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Biscuit, I am 70 as well. Still fit but just need a bit of surgery to fix some worn out bits.
        Merry Chris to you and Family as well.
        
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        December 24, 2022 12:57pm
kiwimike

National are not going to save us from Jacinda’s enabling of Maori Apartheid.
They signed the UNDIP when Maori are not indigenous, they proudly name the 7 Waka they came to NZ on.
If you go to National’s website, “the Maori Te Riti” is center piece of their constitution and labled the founding document of NZ. When it is not.
It was between the Maori and Queen Victoria.
Luxon is not NZ’s saviour, nor Willis.
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December 24, 2022 9:10am
- Swifty
  
  Humans, rats and dogs (kuri) all arrived together on the same waka.
  
  Are rats regarded as indigenous? No, they are classified as introduced.
  
  Are dogs regarded as indigenous? No, they are classified as introduced.
  
  Are Maori regarded as indigenous? Yes.
  
  🎶 One of these things is not like the other….🎶
  
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  December 24, 2022 9:45am
Gravelroad

Apologies if this topic was covered yesterday – didn’t read much as – reasons, but…..
Here’s a suggestion for Mr Wayne Brown, Mayor of Auckland:
Make sure you only get in an elevator by yourself -or, for personal safety, get your own lift built.
Don’t engage with defensive, lacking in confidence “workers” who can’t stand to be asked questions and have to complain to HR about mean behaviour in the playground.
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December 24, 2022 9:17am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I saw that article. Just pathetic. The Mayor probably asked them what they had achieved this week.
  
  33 2
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  December 24, 2022 9:45am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Maybe they were ‘offended’
    
    20 2
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    December 24, 2022 10:27am
redeye

The Disturbing Reality of Cobalt Mining for Rechargeable Batteries
13 3
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December 24, 2022 9:18am
- ClanMcleod
  
  redeye – more inconvenient truth for the moronic, leftist, virtue signaling ideologues to ignore or attempt to whitewash.
  
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  December 24, 2022 10:12am
ClanMcleod

We know Ardern is a liar, just one more piece of proof in this BFD article.

All government vaccine mandates end on 26 September, including the health workforce.

“We’ve always said we don’t want to keep in mandates, requirements and so on, for longer than the evidence suggests we need to.

“Very clearly the advice he was now that we were able and therefore should remove vaccination mandates for that workforce.”

Ardern Lied About Lifting the Vaccine Mandates
It’s still no jab, no job

https://thebfd.co.nz/2022/12/24/ardern-lied-about-lifting-the-vaccine-mandates/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ardern-lied-about-lifting-the-vaccine-mandates
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December 24, 2022 9:19am
- kevn
  
  @Clan… Liar. LIAR.
  
  10 1
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  December 24, 2022 9:54am
- mikenmildagain
  
  LOL at “We know”.
  
  2 23
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  December 24, 2022 10:36am
  - Humble Capitalist
    
    The biggest LOL on Ardern is coming soon Mikey
    
    8 1
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    December 24, 2022 2:59pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Where is NZ Media? Oh look, a squirrel.
  
  14 1
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  December 24, 2022 10:36am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Just watching ‘HeadRush’ on the Rush channel. This id the crew of ‘Mythbusters’
Anyway just saw them loading Buster (dummy) on to a truck.
Wonder if the Police ever turn up after a complaint about loading a dead body?
8 2
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December 24, 2022 9:21am
- mikenmildagain
  
  [Mod – deleted, vile]
  
  3 24
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  December 24, 2022 9:42am
  - Matt Long
    
    Are you on the vax death bandwagon too now Mike?
    
    10 4
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    December 24, 2022 10:11am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I’m not aware of any such wagon. is it one of those trucks flying the Samoan flag?
      
      4 20
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      December 24, 2022 10:14am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Mikenmildagain: “Well, the US has no shortage of dead bodies.”
    
    Another BS innuendo?? Can you explain what on earth you mean?
    
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    December 24, 2022 6:22pm
Southern Raider

Read some court cases in the media two days ago. Two guys up for serious crimes. Both had major reductions in prison sentence due to “cultural reports”

Luxon/Seymour need to come out and say cultural reports can no longer be used in sentencing decisions
25 1
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December 24, 2022 9:44am
- leoj
  
  They wont.
  No guts, either of them.
  
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  December 24, 2022 1:32pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.
https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/waitangi-tribunal-declares-give-northland-back-to-maori/

This is where the distorted Treaty rubbish comes from:

https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Crown-overstepped-authority-to-govern-Northern-Maori-in-19th-century-Waitangi-Tribunal-RNZ-News.pdf
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December 24, 2022 9:54am
Benedict Yu

This makes my blood boil.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/130055829/christchurch-spends-over-100k-fighting-thousands-of-new-homes-proposed-for-neighbouring-district

Christchurch Council is opposing much needed housing developments in neighbouring Selwyn district because it disagrees with the “urban form” and the developments will “encourage the use of private motor vehicles”. 🙁

This is the Council that refused to implement the Governments rules to encourage intensification. Now it is opposing housing developments because they will cause people to drive cars.

No wonder housing is so expensive in this country.
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December 24, 2022 10:31am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Council advised by Eugenie Sage?
  
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  December 24, 2022 10:41am
- Jack5
  
  What is up with the new mayor and the new councillors?
  
  Are the Green-Lefties still in firm control of Christchurch City Council?
  
  8 0
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  December 24, 2022 12:37pm
- JimBobJoe
  
  What the hell does CCC think gives it a right to object to a neighbouring districts planning?
  
  Frankly Council planning sections are full of self important, I know best cock wombles who should stick to ENABLING people to build properly not obstruct, direct and basically dictate things constantly…
  
  Planners are Arsehole to repurpose a popular Hong Kong saying…
  
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  December 24, 2022 4:34pm
rjay

NZME has article complaining that Maori is being used to name prisons e.g. Hinaki (eel trap) for a high security unit and Korowai (a cloak) for a youth prison.
Apparently it is “degrading to the Maori language”.
Got me thinking that we never hear the Maori name for the Dept of Corrections which is Ara Poutama Aotearoa.
Can’t help thinking that someone is trying to degrade the English language.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/doing-thyme-lawyer-slams-prison-cafe-name-for-taking-the-piss/XWPZXC3DFRDBTOMJJ36NNU5DA4/
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December 24, 2022 10:33am
Benedict Yu

This is a great judgment by the Courts.

https://tinyurl.com/2s4cw9jy

The police prosecuted a bunch of people who used the “transit loophole” to enter New Zealand without an MIQ voucher. For example they booked a flight from London to (say) Fiji, transiting in Auckland. But instead of waiting in the transit lounge for the Fiji flight, they simply entered New Zealand. They then faced censure, abuse from officials, and hefty fines.

Of course, the courts have overturned the convictions. You cannot stop citizens entering the country.

What a shameful episode in New Zealand’s history.
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December 24, 2022 10:42am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Bob Jones writes of NZ’s Years of Shame:
  
  https://nopunchespulled.com/2022/12/22/the-years-of-shame/
  
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  December 24, 2022 11:37am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Gretas are what happens when a couple of generations go without real hardship from depressions or world wars. We end up with self indulgent little shits who want to thrust their issues upon the rest of us. Everything is offensive and every perceived wrong must be compensated for. The rest of society is afraid to tell them to fuck off, and that should change.
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December 24, 2022 10:55am
- Taieri
  
  Gretas are what happens when a couple of generations go without real hardship from depressions or world wars.
  ———-
  
  Most of people no longer understand the relationship between consumption and production. This includes the vast majority of politicians I suspect.
  
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  December 24, 2022 11:46am
Paulus

Here in Tauranga both the Auckland Herald and the BOP Times have no Television pages for Christmas.
Ooops a balls up eh ?
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December 24, 2022 10:57am
- Biscuit
  
  Paulus, I like ‘The Chase’.
  
  And its compere, Bradley Walsh.
  
  But lately TV One has been hitting us with ‘Nothing But Bradley Walsh’:
  
  Bradley Walsh and his boy, Barney, go travelling
  Bradley Walsh in ‘The Larkins’
  Bradley Walsh and ‘The Chase’
  Bradley Walsh and ‘The Chase’ Bloopers
  Bradley Walsh and ‘Beat The Chasers’
  Bradley Walsh and ‘Blankety Blank’
  
  The overkill will likely continue, tomorrow, with:
  
  The King’s Christmas Message … as told to Bradley Walsh’
  
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  December 24, 2022 11:27am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    All cheap shit for play school TV1 I guess.
    
    8 0
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    December 24, 2022 1:00pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    @biscuit-
    You left out Bradley Walsh and Law and Order UK which has been on the Universal channel – although run has finished now.
    He’s OK, but he is the same on every show in which he appears.
    He doesn’t act, he just presents Bradley Walsh.
    
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    December 24, 2022 2:13pm
  - Rusty
    
    @ Biscuit.
    
    There is an overkill with Bradley Walsh on TVNZ. He features in too many different programmes that you just can’t avoid him.
    
    Bit strange with TVNZ and their blatant pro-Maori culture agenda that many of their popular
    programmes come from the UK.
    
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    December 24, 2022 2:21pm
  - Rusty
    
    Wasn’t Bradley Walsh on one the Dr Who series with that female Dr Who?
    
    4 0
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    December 24, 2022 2:23pm
    - Ghost
      
      Yeah, but now gone
      
      3 0
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      December 24, 2022 2:31pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Why does anyone watch TV anymore. If you dont like it.
  Plenty of options online FREE!!
  
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  December 24, 2022 6:01pm
- MCōs
  
  Go outside and have some fun
  https://www.facebook.com/reel/5951321071655465?fs=e&s=TIeQ9V
  
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  December 24, 2022 7:55pm
Alex

In The current trial in Arizona,
A Runbeck whistleblwer reveals 298,942 ballots did not have chain of custody.
Kari Lake who lost recently brought the case.
It’s all over for Katie Hobbs the Democrat.
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December 24, 2022 11:00am
- NothingLeft
  
  Laws only apply to Republicans.
  
  3 1
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  December 24, 2022 4:27pm
Maggy Wassilieff

The trouble with being a reasonably competent cook is that you eventually get saddled with being in charge of organizing food during festivities/celebrations.

I must admit that over the years I have learnt to downsize the effort, but I regret indulging my hubby’s passion for cabbage piroshki… for that’s today’s task – boiling up cabbage… and preparing the little buggas.
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December 24, 2022 11:01am
- Taieri
  
  I regret indulging my hubby’s passion for cabbage piroshki
  ————-
  
  Lovely! I wish I knew how to make them. Tried a couple of times but they would fall apart in the pot.
  
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  December 24, 2022 11:47am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    That sounds like pelmeni… a boiled dumpling.
    (I used to make meat-based ones.. but reckon it’s easier and tastier to just buy in frozen Korean dumplings (Mandu)).
    
    The piroshki are baked and have a leavened (yeast-risen) pastry …. I leave hubby to fill and shape the little beasts…as My efforts often split open in the oven or are too bready.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirozhki
    
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    December 24, 2022 2:39pm
kevn

@Maggy… I remember a few years ago I decided to treat (pay) for the family to a hotel Xmas lunch. Just to take the pressure off. About 10 people plus children. My in-laws complained about EVERYTHING.
Never offered that again.
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December 24, 2022 11:08am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “Outlaws” Fixed it.
  
  8 0
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  December 24, 2022 1:01pm
Captain Mainwaring

Where is our friend Maggie Pie?
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December 24, 2022 11:10am
- Biscuit
  
  You didn’t hear, Captain?
  
  Clearly you and Maggie have so ‘hit it off together’ this year that we all thought it only right to gift-wrap her and to stick her under your Christmas Tree.
  
  Don’t rush to thank us…
  
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  December 24, 2022 11:31am
- kevn
  
  @Captn… Maggie will be prepping up a storm to provide the best Xmas experience for her family and random besties.
  You will just have to use your imagination and think of the flash booze options she will have as well..
  
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  December 24, 2022 11:44am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Or down at Farros buying the place out.
    
    9 0
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    December 24, 2022 1:02pm
- JamesP
  
  Stuck in the queue at Lum’s.
  
  5 0
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  December 24, 2022 11:54am
- Taieri
  
  Last minute shopping at Costco. Or was it Pak’n’Slave?
  
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  December 24, 2022 1:14pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Sorry guys, you’re all wrong. She’s emotionally preparing herself for Midnight Mass to welcome in the commemoration of the birth of Our Lord, Jesus Christ – the whole purpose for which we celbrate Christmas.
    Have a blessed & Happy Christmas, everyone – (even the non-believers 🙂 )
    
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    December 24, 2022 5:23pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Out & about in Petone & Lower Hutt this morning. In vain did I search for a cyclist, nary a one to be seen. Plenty of ve-hicles, loaded to the gunnels with Christmas goods & tucker. People voting with their wallets. Four wheels good, two wheels good for recreation only. Meanwhile, the Petone – Melling cycleway, now $20m+ per Km, sits unloved, unused and all forlorn. Your tax dollars, at work.
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December 24, 2022 11:28am
graham

Headline in the NZ Herald, presumably checked by one of their extremely experienced and skilled team:

“Bear, hugs and tears at Auckland Airport as Kiwis reunite for Christmas”

I despair …
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December 24, 2022 1:55pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Was it a black, brown or polar bear?
  Teddy bear?
  
  6 0
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  December 24, 2022 2:20pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Famously, the Kiwi eats, roots, and leaves.
  
  2 13
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  December 24, 2022 2:24pm
  - Swifty
    
    Eats, roots, shoots and leaves.
    
    Get it right please Mike.
    
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    December 24, 2022 8:35pm
Surely Knott

American billionaire fireworks. What does this person’s country of origin have to do with the story, or the size of their bank account. If it was an unemployed broke person from (insert any other country here) would it be racist to mention their country or rude to mention their wealth
in the article. Why is it racist to say “what country do you come from” to someone in national costume as per the uk scandal recently but ok to complain , “American neighbour “ letting off fireworks when the neighbours own property in Nz and may identify as American Nzers.
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December 24, 2022 2:29pm
MCōs

Over the years the Queen used to deliver a Christmas message that some people would religiously listen to not to be left out or something.
This year it’ll be down to her son to weave his way through all the land mines of a dysfunctional family.
The more one reads about them from the fake royal reporters that poison the atmosphere the more one understands the King’s son’s choice to relocate elsewhere.
My great grandfather left Ireland c1880 and settled near Timaru and the family has had an affinity for Ireland ever since.
The Irish have had a rough time over the years from the UK and the church, but they seem to be getting on top of things.
In Timaru they also had to put the loathsome Orange order in its place in 1879.
https://youtu.be/AqcwxV1OBno
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December 24, 2022 2:42pm
- NothingLeft
  
  The catholic emmigrant dominated towns of the south island like Timaru were econically depressed compared to their more numerous protestant dominated competitors.
  
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  December 24, 2022 3:40pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Please provide a fuller explanation of this remarkable thesis.
    
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    December 24, 2022 3:54pm
    - Humble Capitalist
      
      What if we didnt go to univarsity like you done Mike? Apologies actually I did done a degree
      
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      December 24, 2022 4:22pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  They had a tough time from the Brits but until recently they were kept under the thumb of the RC Church. The Church has lost its sway over the people of Ireland now and relations are improving with the Brits
  
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  December 24, 2022 4:04pm
  - MCōs
    
    Just as I said
    
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    December 24, 2022 7:29pm
Jack5

Game on, in UK politics?

Upheaval over Sturgeon’s plans to allow trans Scots to self-declare their gender, have been followed by UK Labour.

Nicola Sturgeon, First Minister for Scotland, is pushing through plans for a Scottish system of “self-declaration” for obtaining a gender recognition certificate. This would remove requirement for a psychiatric diagnosis of gender dysphoria, reducing the time someone must have been permanently living in their acquired gender before they can apply, from two years to three months, and drop the age at which people can apply from 18 to 16.

There has been strong reaction from female rights advocates who argue there will be a danger to women, especially in prisons, from people born male and who change gender to female.

UK Labour leader Keir Starmer has now vowed to change over-all UK law similarly to Sturgeon, allowing trans people to self-declare their gender.

The Labour leader said he will “update” the Gender Recognition Act if elected. The Telegraph says this is despite warnings that doing so would impact women’s rights and could give “predatory men” access single-sex spaces.

The next UK general election is scheduled to be held no later than January 2025.
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December 24, 2022 4:04pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Wow. Has anybody totaled the downticks for Mike today?
Kiwiblog record I think, but it does not matter.
Merry Christmas Mike, or should that be Mele Kalikimaka, as we love Hawaii.
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December 24, 2022 7:53pm

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