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December 10, 2022 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 10 December 2022

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General Debate

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Tricati

Listening to Barry Soper on HDPA’s show last night, it seems that Ardern is going to “rebrand” herself to a globe-trotting trade superstar that will sell the country to the world.
The cynic in me thinks she intends to spend more time next year out of NZ than in, to avoid scrutiny over her and her governments performance in election year. Her MSM enablers will promote her trips as Ardern using her star qualities to sell NZ products to the world and saving our economy. This from a woman that doesn’t even understand what our GDP is, and whose policies have placed NZ in a very precarious economic position, regardless of the world events.
Leaving the likes of Robbo and Chippy here to take the hits, and push back on the over enthusiastic Māori caucus, she will ride back into town under glowing MSM reports of great trade gains to announce she can now wipe student debt and raise tax relief in WFF, a month before the election.
National/ACT need to be on watch and be prepared to kick back hard on any attempt to bribe the country, as we all know it’s coming, as they have sweet FA else to offer.
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December 10, 2022 8:03am
- redeye
  
  The overwhelming are predicting much worse economic conditions next year. It want be a good look for her to be jetsetting while people are loosing their homes.
  Personally I’m prediciting they’ll do something like offer free dentistry. Bryce Edwards earlier in the year was suggesting it would cost around 480 million which is just a couple of days borrowing for Robertson.
  
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  December 10, 2022 8:39am
  - crackle
    
    Dunno how they’ll role out free dentistry, dental for primary students is already a shit show. Basically the dental buses aren’t able to cover all the schools so they’re prioritizing schools on some kind of weird system on the basis of x percentage of kids will have parents that will take their kids to a private dentist instead.
    I’ll bet if they make it ‘free’ either it’ll become near impossible to book a dentist due to demand increase or people still won’t go and no much changes.
    
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    December 10, 2022 12:07pm
    - redeye
      
      No doubt it would be difficult to implement crackle. There would be a huge backlash from the dentists as well as it would mean their income would suddenly be restricted to what the government decides. Private businesses would instantly become public service entities.
      However as we have seen, this lot only work on promises. Did anyone truly believe they could build 10000 homes?
      
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      December 10, 2022 1:07pm
      - Bob
        
        Private businesses would instantly become public service entities……
        you are awake to the Agenda Redeye.What easier way to Nationalise private enterprise than by undermining the foundations of private commerce.
        The sheeple will love it, for about two years! Then when there is a dearth of consumables in the ‘Peoples Supermarket’ the sheeple will be able to reflect upon the term ‘consequences, as they wait in the queue for the next delivery day.
        
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        December 10, 2022 1:28pm
    - Paulus
      
      I always theough tha dental treatment for children age… was free.
      
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      December 10, 2022 1:37pm
      - Ghost
        
        It is free up to 18 years old
        
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        December 10, 2022 1:40pm
    - Centrist
      
      Rather than free dentistry just put fluoride in all the water. Heaps cheaper and more efficient. If they can force through unproven covid jabs (which I happily got anyway), surely getting well-proven fluoride everywhere should be easy. Also improve education
      Many parents of young kids give them fizzy drink or fruit juice and wonder why their teeth rot.
      
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      December 10, 2022 1:43pm
      - JohnRidd
        
        The purpose of free dental for all is not to prevent harm. It is to purchase votes.
        
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        December 10, 2022 2:28pm
      - Jim
        
        Better still, why not buy any one of the plethora of fluoride toothpastes. Ohh yes silly me, that would some require personal responsibility.
        
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        December 10, 2022 4:11pm
      - Colville
        
        You will certainly get all the dentists voting for it!
        
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        December 10, 2022 4:15pm
  - Thought Criminal
    
    I’m predicting Democrat like student loan forgiveness. Who wouldn’t vote for 10k off their student loan?
    
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    December 10, 2022 1:22pm
    - slightlyrighty
      
      Why would you get loan forgiveness after a free first year?
      
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      December 10, 2022 2:44pm
- pdm
  
  You are right on the money Tricati.
  
  I heard Soper say that too.
  
  Sometimes we do not giver credit to how sly and manipulative Ardern is.
  
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  December 10, 2022 8:40am
  - Scott
    
    Remember pdm – the Prime Minister has very clear goals. She was the former president of New Zealand Socialist youth. She has achieved many of her goals. Centralising the economy, during the pandemic she had complete control over our economic life. Socialists want that. She has changed the name of this country and she has changed the name of every government department. Co-governance is well on its way. Three waters has been passed. Tribal authorities now control our water for the first time since 1839. The health system is now centralised under one department. With a separate Maori Health Authority having sway over everyone else.
    
    Some very high profile commentators have said that she will be gone by Christmas. She is not gonna be gone by Christmas. She is winning. Free-speech is almost dead in this country. There is only one opinion allowed on every topic. The peoples Socialist Republic of Aotearoa is being implemented before our eyes.
    
    One can only hope that when the opposition are returned to the Treasury benches they will dismantle all of the socialist edifice of centralisation and co-governance. They will restore free-speech. However I am a little less than sanguine about our opposition.
    
    Our situation reminds me of the poem by Yeats – “Things fall apart; the center cannot hold; / Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, / The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere / The ceremony of innocence is drowned; / The best lack all conviction, while the worst / Are full of passionate intensity.”
    
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    December 10, 2022 9:04am
    - Colville
      
      You give her far too much credit.
      She is no where near smart enough to plan all that.
      
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      December 10, 2022 9:15am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        H1
        
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        December 10, 2022 11:27am
    - slightlyrighty
      
      https://polcompballanarchy.miraheze.org/wiki/Ethno-Socialism
      
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      December 10, 2022 9:17am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        Blair a Fabian Socialist. That would be news to most people.
        
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        December 10, 2022 11:54am
    - rouppe
      
      She was the former president of New Zealand Socialist youth
      
      It was the International Union of Socialist Youth. Comrade.
      
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      December 10, 2022 9:18am
      - Rusty
        
        @ rouppe.
        
        Our PM also worked at Fabian socialist Tony Blairs office in London before entering politics.
        
        I wonder what he filled her head up with?
        
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        December 10, 2022 10:34am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        See links below at 11.25
        
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        December 10, 2022 11:28am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Yeats was describing what he saw as the looming apocalypse in the wake of the first world war and the influenza pandemic.
      
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      December 10, 2022 9:56am
    - Jack5
      
      NZ has four free trade agreements concluded, but not in force, and Ardern may try to claim responsibility for them.
      
      They are with the UK and the EU, plus: the Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement (it paves the way for Pacific trade); and the international Anti Counterfeiting Trade agreement.
      
      We’ll find out how far PR bullshit can take this Far Left politician.
      
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      December 10, 2022 10:10am
      - Tricati
        
        Correct – The UK deal is far less than what Australia negotiated, the EU on is far from settled, and is in essence the same as National started, the TPPA is as National instigated and Labour was vehemently against and we still haven’t improved our deal with China to match Australia. So over 5 years and all the hype, Labour have achieved sweet FA.
        
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        December 10, 2022 10:43am
      - Jim
        
        Let the business community judge the trade deals, especially against global competition, I suspect they are not as competitive as first portrayed.
        
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        December 10, 2022 4:17pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      President of the World Socialist Youth 2008 and 2009. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Union_of_Socialist_Youth#Historical_leadership
      In Hungary 2009.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9rsxFaq6Ig
      This person was a danger 13 years ago.
      
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      December 10, 2022 11:25am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Big dollars on the international speaking circuit. If Tony Blair, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama etc can do it, why not Jaxxie?
  
  There are plenty of fools out there who will pay to hear her babble. And let’s face it, what else is she going to do? Go back to wrapping fish & chips?
  
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  December 10, 2022 8:45am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Only Venezuela, Cuba, and Zimbabwe will listen to her.
    
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    December 10, 2022 11:30am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Our Dear PM is desperate to get to China
  
  https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/12/9/new-zealands-ardern-eyes-trade-mission-to-china
  
  Perhaps she has some water to sell off.
  
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  December 10, 2022 9:22am
  - Ghost
    
    She has to get her new orders from her boss
    
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    December 10, 2022 9:26am
    - herb1
      
      She dosent need to go to China, Mahutas office is next door
      
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      December 10, 2022 9:43am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I don’t think Ms Mahuta has organised a buyer of our water or a supplier of 3-waters infrastructure.
        
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        December 10, 2022 10:30am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    It can only be done when it’s out of council hands
    
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    December 10, 2022 9:56am
    - Matt Long
      
      That advertised for staff for Three Waters before they started “consultation,” no reason to wait until it’s all set up before selling assets off, like selling house and land packages off the plan.
      
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      December 10, 2022 12:59pm
      - Nickc2
        
        I believe 3/5Waters legislation is not due to kick in until 2024. If true, there’s still time to kick the thing in the guts.
        
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        December 10, 2022 1:08pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    While some people still here are still desperate to sell out to China:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pECTOCKoVsE
    
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    December 10, 2022 9:59am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      The only party possible to sell will be Labour, every party voted against this except the Marxists, the only way it can be sold if it’s out of councils hands
      
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      December 10, 2022 10:29am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        My comment was in response to Maggy Wassilief’s at 9.22 am.
        But some people do indeed object to the sale of rights to bottle NZ water, some of which is no doubt exported. Was that what you are referring to?
        
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        December 10, 2022 10:56am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  She is trying to say she is a global trade hero. What bullshit, she went to Vietnam the other week to talk trade, what utter bullshit that was, Vietnam is covered by the TTP, so a fail again, tell me just one thing trade wise she her self has achieved?
  
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  December 10, 2022 9:27am
  - Tricati
    
    To be fair, she came back with an agreement to import Vietnamese Limes – Every New Zealander need those desperately (sarc)
    
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    December 10, 2022 11:07am
    - Paulus
      
      Have you seen the price of Limes ?
      Do without anyway.
      Like Lemons we grow enough for our own needs
      
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      December 10, 2022 1:40pm
  - Rich Prick
    
    Working the till at the chippie for a day.
    
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    December 10, 2022 11:13am
- Prince
  
  Co-governance, 5-Waters, Inflation, Cost of Living, Division etc etc are mere side shows to distract from what Labour is really doing to the country.
  This will be an election year, where Labour will look to step up spending (dental care ?), while at current levels we borrow $86M every day.
  Remember when a few tame economists proclaimed Labour’s shadow budget in 2017 had no holes ? And when NZ’s debt was around $50B.
  https://www.debtclock.nz/
  
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  December 10, 2022 9:33am
  - Sacha
    
    Free dental care ? huh. What are the odds that children and beneficiaries will be first, and pensioners will not feature, because they’re going to die soon – and the sooner the better.
    
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    December 10, 2022 9:46am
    - Ghost
      
      Children already get free dental care up to 18 years old.
      
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      December 10, 2022 10:18am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Correct. The main problem is children who don’t (won’t or can’t) go to a dentist. Perhaps screening in schools would be more effective than an entitlement many do not access.
        
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        December 10, 2022 10:59am
      - Ian Boag
        
        @mike
        
        We could train up some young women – call them something like “dental nurses” – put them into premises called “dental clinincs” ….
        
        What’s not to like 🙂
        
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        December 10, 2022 7:15pm
      - Ghost
        
        Oh the memories of sitting in primary school when the student would walk into the class with the tooth shaped card for the next victim.
        
        Down here the primary schools are now serviced by the mobile dental unit. No reason for kids to not go, parks up in the school
        
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        December 10, 2022 7:27pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Not going to die soon. I am 70, I plan to lock out somewhere around 90.
      Still fit. I have a walking frame is the garage somewhere. It belonged to my Mum.
      
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      December 10, 2022 11:43am
    - backster
      
      You kidding Maori come first though they may have a separate co-department 50% resources to each with maori having overall right of veto.
      
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      December 10, 2022 2:15pm
- nathie
  
  Regarding Labour desperately trying to “rebrand” the PM. It won’t work:
  
  *Achievements are key. If she isn’t achieving anything for NZ Inc., apart from being a “tourist”, it will be regarded cynically by the public and media as wasteful spending.
  
  *With a cost of living crisis back home in NZ, the PM’s wasteful spending and lavish photoshoots and dining will be received negatively.
  
  *With a cost of living crisis back home in NZ, questions will be asked of the PM why she isn’t here.
  
  *The international media will pick up on the discontent and more so than the NZ media will amplify them.
  
  Frankly if Labour want to do better they would be better off rolling back all of their policies that they never took to the electorate (starting from 2017) because they knew they wouldn’t receive widespread support.
  
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  December 10, 2022 9:55am
  - Thought Criminal
    
    First election. Promise everything. Achieve none of it.
    
    Second election. Refuse to say what their policies are. Do all of the secret agenda shit.
    
    Worst government in New Zealand history.
    
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    December 10, 2022 1:29pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Jaspinda does not like facing Parliament. Last count was 62 days avoiding Parliament, but that was a few months ago.
  
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  December 10, 2022 11:17am
- surfing
  
  Jacinda is not great at business.
  
  I think she’ll just bribe a large group, like students.
  
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  December 10, 2022 11:37am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Terminating Student Loans buys votes.
    
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    December 10, 2022 11:47am
    - rockape
      
      Only of the people who would vote for her anyway.
      
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      December 10, 2022 1:07pm
      - Colville
        
        Exactly. She (or the Mellons) already own 90% of those votes.
        I think student debt forgiveness would be a vote loser for them as working voters (who pay the taxes!) would turn their backs in droves.
        
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        December 10, 2022 4:19pm
- amospicton
  
  Labour are toast – was talking to a couple of friends this morning. One has always voted Labour and thanks H1 is NZ’s greatest PM. Will never vote Labour again. The other, a doctor, is voting National to keep Act out. Hopes National get to 50%! I think Ardern will challenge Cunliffe’s numbers in the low 20’s before too much longer.
  
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  December 10, 2022 11:59am
mikenmildagain

Today marks the 80th anniversary of the Polish government’s note to the allied powers protesting the extermination of Poles and Jews – the first official report of the holocaust.
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December 10, 2022 8:04am
- Simon
  
  ” – the first official report of the holocaust.”
  
  By 10 December 1942 almost all Polish jews had been killed. Why did it take so long for Polish govt in exile to report??
  
  Anyway.
  
  Prime Minister Władysław Sikorski advised British Foreign Secretary Anthony Eden on January 19, 1942, that it was not possible for a future Poland to have over 3 million Jews; “room must be found for them elsewhere.”
  
  https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23739770.2022.2143921?src=
  
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  December 10, 2022 8:38am
  - CJames
    
    I can’t be bothered looking it up to get actual timeline but if IIRC, it wasn’t until end 1941 that the final solution became official German policy. First deportations to these camps were only three days before Polish government’s message.
    https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-final-solution.
    Most of the industrial killing concentration camps and their genocide date from after then.
    
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    December 10, 2022 9:09am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      The best account I have read of the period is Timothy Snyder’s Bloodlands: Europe between Hitler and Stalin.
      
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      December 10, 2022 9:52am
  - CJames
    
    If one reads the link I sent earlier, the German interim solution to “the Jewish problem” was a plan to send all the Jews in occupied lands to Poland into the specially created ghettos. This is most likely what the Polish Prime Minister was complaining about. In early 1942, the Germans still looked like they were going to win or at least negotiate a peace, so countries were starting to look at what a post war Europe would look like.
    
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    December 10, 2022 10:24am
    - Master Mariner
      
      I believe Madagaskar was on the table by the Germsns as well.
      
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      December 10, 2022 10:36am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      The Wansee conference was in January 1942. There is plenty of room to doubt that Hitler would have negotiated by giving up his primary war aim.
      
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      December 10, 2022 11:02am
      - Sparrow
        
        Can highly recommend the book ” An Iron Wind” by Peter Fritzsche. It clearly lays out how Europe was under German rule. Especially Poland and France and the significant differences during this horrific period of World history.
        The 10th December 1942 was the date the Polish Government in Exile published “The Mass Extermination of Jews in occupied Poland” they had been tardy. The BBC on the 2nd and 26th June 1942 had already broadcast details of the extermination of Jews in Poland.
        Reports had reached London earlier than that. The broadcast is reported to have stated that 700000 Jews had been killed in 1941. Mass killings of Jews gypsies, and Polish elites had started soon after the invasion. Lets not forget the Soviets killed thousands of Polish army personnel and intelligencia in the Katyn forest. Let us never forget
        
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        December 10, 2022 12:04pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Good boy Mike. You are a wealth of information sometimes. Keep it up.
  
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  December 10, 2022 11:48am
mikenmildagain

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Britain’s woke foreign secretary boasts that:

sanctions targeting those responsible for acts of torture, sexual violence and the repression of protests…is a central part of our strategy to eradicate these crimes.
I will ensure this remains the theme of British diplomacy.
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December 10, 2022 8:08am
- Its only I
  
  That will make negotiations with New Zealand’s Labour party a bit tricky then doesn’t it?
  
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  December 10, 2022 8:27am
- rouppe
  
  So in Britain, Trevor Mallard would be a target?
  
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  December 10, 2022 9:20am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  Is he also following the US Senate / Biden copout on prosecuting Saudi’s MBS for being responsible for torture of Kashoggi ?
  https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/11/saudi-arabia-biden-administrations-attempt-to-grant-immunity-to-mohammed-bin-salman-is-a-deep-betrayal/
  Since when do Head of States deserve any legal immunity from prosecution, can’t see the USA not prosecuting Hitler or Hirohito if they could have.
  
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  December 10, 2022 9:39am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    He was more interested in implying that his government was now tougher on these few select baddies than the rest of Europe.
    
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    December 10, 2022 10:01am
  - kiwikidsnz
    
    I spoke too soon. After Japan’s surrender, Hirohito was not prosecuted for war crimes, as General Douglas MacArthur thought that an ostensibly cooperative emperor would help establish a peaceful Allied occupation, and help the U.S. achieve their postwar objectives.
    
    Probably no surprises there, the US has a long history of corrupt practices supporting illegitimate regimes to furthering the USs own interests.
    
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    December 10, 2022 10:22am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Kiwikidsnz: “the US has a long history of corrupt practices supporting illegitimate regimes to furthering the USs own interests.”
      
      They’ve had major skin in the game in terms of the lives of their service people and the massive amount of resource they put into keeping the world’s thuggery based regimes under control.
      
      The world is not a perfect place and the USA often has only a handful of horrible choices to choose from. Easy to bag them living in a broken fool’s paradise that does not have skin in the game.
      
      The corruption now though is something else entirely and is mainly the far left run institutions and their pals in big tech.
      
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      December 10, 2022 1:25pm
    - Jack5
      
      … Hirohito was not prosecuted for war crimes …
      
      General MacArthur and the US as a whole did a great job in turning Japan into a friend and in helping Japan become a prosperous democracy.
      
      War crimes were a delicate subject after the two atomic bombs and the Tokyo fire raids that culminated in 100,000 dead on the night of March 9-10, 1945.
      
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      December 10, 2022 4:53pm
  - virtualmark
    
    Typically, heads of State have immunity from civil cases brought by non-Government people & bodies.
    
    I believe that in the US heads of state have immunity from state-level criminal cases.
    
    And, of course, they can have effective immunity from criminal cases because those are brought by Government agencies (Crown prosecutors here, the likes of the DOJ in the US) and so the Government can elect to stay its own hand.
    
    The thing with MBS is that technically he is not the head of state of Saudi Arabia. King Salman is the head of state, and MBS is notionally the Prime Minister. But Salman is 85, not in great health, and rarely seen. Meanwhile MBS is the de facto head of state. I believe the US calculation was that they needed to extend the head of state privileges to MBS because that is the realpolitik.
    
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    December 10, 2022 10:30am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Points out how tough his government has been on Myanmar, Iran, and Russia, then proceeds to say:
  
  I will announce new sanctions on individuals in 11 countries, including Iran, Russia, Mali and Nicaragua, targeting those responsible for acts of torture, sexual violence and the repression of protests.
  
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  December 10, 2022 9:46am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Conservative governments – i.e., all governments – do not break with their traditional allies over such trifles as human rights violations. The woke secretary of state should get back to real British readers when he announces similar targeted sanctions on leaders from countries ranked below Nicaragua or Iran on international indices of freedom. Perhaps he could start with Brazil and Mexico or Saudi Arabia and Iraq.
    
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    December 10, 2022 1:33pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Hand off it Mike.
      Jaspinda is doing this for you, you in R. T. Rower
      
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      December 10, 2022 6:02pm
Warren

Janet Wilson: where’s the outrage about our Child Poverty Rates.
So why is the news of a increasing Child Poverty disparity between Pakeha and Maori with Pasifica highlighted in this week’s Childrens Commissioner’s Child Poverty Monitor been greeted with little outrage.
While 14% of Pakeha kids were living in Poverty 17.8% of Maori are in poor- incomes and 16 3% for Pasifica Children.
Jacinda Ardern our Prime Minister is also the Minister for Child Poverty Reduction in this she declared a significant in Child Poverty- more evidence says Janet Wilson, of how the data has been weaponised.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/130711985/janet-wilson-wheres-the-outrage-about-our-child-poverty-rates
I have been saying this since Jacinda Ardern has been our Prime Minister that the figures are manipulated to suit our Prime Minister’s cause.
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December 10, 2022 8:11am
- Nickc2
  
  Another gigantic failure pointing directly at our PM.
  Add this to the evergrowing list of incompetencies demonstrated by the leader of this Labour Govt.
  People voting in the Hamilton West bi-election should take note of all this Govt’s failures to deliver and elect a new National or ACT MP.
  
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  December 10, 2022 8:38am
  - rockape
    
    The Greens not contesting will help Labour but I suspect he result will go Nationals way. Bi elections generally go against the government. I said a while ago Labour voters must be disappointed in Labour so I peck their votes to go down and Nationals to stay the same numbers wise not percentages.
    
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    December 10, 2022 9:10am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Can’t be a failure, Cindy says she’s given billions to families and the poor, I wonder if the fool will wake up and realise that throwing money does nothing.
    
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    December 10, 2022 9:35am
    - Jack5
      
      Definitions of “poverty” tend to shift for political purposes and to keep money flowing to a few organisations.
      
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      December 10, 2022 10:18am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Tell that yo the 26000 people in motels waiting for accomodation, and the 10s of 1000s still living rough, Ardern says at least people are not living in the streets, well she is straight out lying again
        
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        December 10, 2022 10:31am
- pdm
  
  Warren could you get 3 more incompetent people than those who have had responsibility for fixing Child Poverdy since 2020 and possibly as far back as 2017.
  
  Jacinda Ardern – Minister for Child Poverdy.
  
  Aided and abetted by:
  Kelvin Davis – Minister for Children
  Marama Davidson – MInister for Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence.
  
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  December 10, 2022 8:47am
  - rouppe
    
    I’ve noticed it is their strategy to have different ministers responsible for related parts of the system.
    
    I’ve also noticed that when the going gets tough, Minister A will say that “that is the responsibility of Minister B”. Megan Woods has done it several times
    
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    December 10, 2022 9:23am
    - Manu-Rau
      
      That was Helen Clark’s approach. I recall that at one point she had about 5 Associate Ministers of Health. Whichever one was asked a question in Parliament would simply say it was another Assoc Min’s responsibility.
      
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      December 10, 2022 11:12am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Time to correlate child poverty by size of family.
  
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  December 10, 2022 8:48am
- Gravelroad
  
  @Warren-
  You keep referring to Ms Ardern as “our Prime Minister”.
  She is not mine and never will be.
  
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  December 10, 2022 8:57am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    I understand how you think, but [Mod – stop with that language please] pm, that’s why we have one option next year, Nats government with ACT in support.
    I note Seymour saying he does not want finance, and even like the past he says he doesn’t even care if he is a minister.
    
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    December 10, 2022 9:39am
  - herb1
    
    It’s become clear of late that not only is she not your PM she’s not New Zealand’s either. She has a duty to tell us who’s actually in the driving seat
    
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    December 10, 2022 9:54am
    - Warren
      
      Wow, I wonder how the Prime Minister and her Labour Government feel about this after their arrogance when the National Party first announced this.
      Poll : Majority support boot camps for serious youth offenders.
      The latest One News Kantar poll shows the response to the Question, ‘ Do you think young people should be sent to Military boot camps if they are serious offenders this would involve young people aged 10 – 17.
      A majority 60 % said yes 31% said no and 9% didn’t know or refused to answer.
      https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/12/08/poll-majority-support-boot-camps-for-serious-youth-offenders/
      I wonder how all the do – gooders feel about this and the voters rejection of Jacinda Ardern’s soft on crime policies.
      
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      December 10, 2022 10:29am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        They got poll results early, they will have known, hence the bullshit rap around policy for the poor little blighters
        
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        December 10, 2022 10:33am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      But she misleads the country with no consequences, it use to be a sackable offence
      
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      December 10, 2022 10:32am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Cindy tells us she’s sorted it and all is well now
  
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  December 10, 2022 9:34am
- Opie
  
  Can’t read the article. Too many languages contained in the same sentence all jumbled up.
  
  What I get from the data is this:
  
  156,000 white kids in poverty
  46,992 maori kids in poverty.
  
  It’s an outrage alright. Who is trying to help the 150k white kids? It’s just about the maoris now. I literally heard a white person say yesterday that there were too many white people at a school. Got shitty when I called them a racist.
  
  The percentage difference based on skin colour is very small.
  
  This has fuck all to do with race, more that nz is full of dumb lazy shits that can’t or won’t provide for the kids they chose to have in the hope they someone else would pay for them.
  
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  December 10, 2022 10:06am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Janet Wilson = word soup waffle.
    
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    December 10, 2022 11:58am
Clyde

Bearing in mind the puddle deep talent within the Liemore Pardy, who do contributors think will be moving when St Tooth Fairy reshuffles her Cabinet in the next while?

Just how will she reconcile the power within the East Polynesian caucus and the rest. What to do with little Willie Jackson and his rabid behaviour? How to deal with MahutaCorp? Could Chippie and Woods take on another of portfolios?

Must keep her awake at nights…..
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December 10, 2022 8:12am
- mikenmildagain
  
  What is an East Polynesian?
  Google says:
  Cook Islanders are ethnically Polynesians or Eastern Polynesia. They are culturally associated with Tahiti, Eastern Islands, NZ Maori and Hawaii. Early in the 17th century, they became the first race to settle in New Zealand.
  
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  December 10, 2022 8:32am
  - David Lenny
    
    Early in the 17th century, they became the first race to settle in New Zealand.
    
    So, just before Tasman briefly visited.
    
    Either ‘17th’ is a typo or Google is mistaken, as I’m sure you would know.
    
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    December 10, 2022 9:53am
    - MCōs
      
      Google’s never been wrong before.
      
      When did Māori arrive in New Zealand?
      
      Discovery and migration
      The date of first settlement is a matter of debate, but current understanding is that the first arrivals came from East Polynesia between 1250 and 1300 AD.
      
      Of course Google references a source for their information. In this case
      Māori arrival and settlement – Te Ara Encyclopedia of New Zealand
      
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      December 10, 2022 12:35pm
  - G152
    
    Try 12th century and you will not appear so stupid.We have the DNA that dates the event
    
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    December 10, 2022 10:23am
    - rangitoto
      
      DNA? I would have thought C14 dating.
      
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      December 10, 2022 8:38pm
  - Jack5
    
    From the State’s NZ Encyclopedia, a.k.a Te Ara:
    
    It is unlikely that the ancestors of Maori came from only one location. DNA from New Zealand’s Pacific rat shows diverse lineages from the Society and Cook Islands. This suggests that several canoes came from a number of sources. They may have come over several generations, or even centuries. A study of human DNA also suggests that there was a minimum of 70–100 women as founding ancestors. Several canoes, possibly coming from several locations, would be needed to bring this number of people.
    
    A Tahitian influence is always welcome:
    
    https://youtu.be/KpxVVodcmrk
    
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    December 10, 2022 10:35am
  - Clyde
    
    As far as I’m aware the settlement date was mid 13th century, but a lot of caution. Certainly nothing from the 2000 year history that a lot of these East Polynesians claim. Myth, the fact that generations were much much shorter then, than they are now, and the time these colonists were in NZ is much shorter than many claim. Of course they, like most of the Polynesians came from Taiwan.
    
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    December 10, 2022 11:08am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      When do you think the Polynesians left Taiwan? Or are you referring to the Austronesian expansion – i.e., the human discovery and settlement of Madagascar, northern New Guinea and Oceania?
      
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      December 10, 2022 1:36pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        When do you think the Polynesians left Taiwan?
        
        Evidence seems to suggest that folks from Taiwan began venturing southwards some 5000-6000 years ago.
        
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        December 10, 2022 3:12pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Correct. My point is that the Polynesians did not come from here. Migration of the people called Austronesians populated Madagascar, northern New Guinea and spread through Oceania.
        Clyde probably thinks the term ‘East Polynesians’ is a clever way of slightly disparaging our country’s first human settlers.
        
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        December 10, 2022 3:34pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Clyde probably thinks the term ‘East Polynesians’ is a clever way of slightly disparaging our country’s first human settlers.
        
        What makes you think that?
        
        Numerous anthropologists/geneticists refer to East Polynesians.. to differentiate them from the folks and cultures of Western Polynesia.
        
        https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-20026-8
        
        https://www.jstor.org/stable/41466314
        
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        December 10, 2022 4:19pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Again, how can you be sure Clyde wasn’t including our Two MPs of Cook-Island descent along with the Maori MPs when he referred to the power within the East Polynesian caucus?
        
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        December 10, 2022 4:37pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  She keeps others awake at night.
  
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  December 10, 2022 11:59am
Tony Stuart

A superb hole in one from Sir John Key yesterday at Ryan Fox’s charity tournament at the Grange. Unsurprisingly, it’s bent a whole lot of people out of shape 😀
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December 10, 2022 8:17am
- slightlyrighty
  
  How dare a personage of his privilege hit a small ball into a slightly larger hole from 200 yards away!
  
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  December 10, 2022 8:23am
- alloytoo
  
  It overshadowed Labour’s trolls trying to “push” their achievements…….of course there are so few achievements to push…..
  
  Anyway Well done JK.
  
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  December 10, 2022 8:26am
- john1234
  
  Sadly for John, it wasn’t a stipulated round so not an official hole in one.
  
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  December 10, 2022 8:34am
  - Colville
    
    Ha.
    I bet that didnt help his hangover from all the free drinks.!
    
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    December 10, 2022 10:19am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Colville – the person getting the hole in one has to shout the bar. At an event of this size I’m guessing the bill was substantial, though small change to Key of course.
      In saying that, there is usually club insurance that covers at least part of the cost. Not sure of the details these days.
      
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      December 10, 2022 1:34pm
      - Colville
        
        Well there you go. If Key shouted the bar he would have had 20 or more in return. Walking out of the bar may have required assistance.
        
        2 0
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        December 10, 2022 5:48pm
- Cassandra
  
  The Grange? It amalgamated with/was taken over by/took over the Royal Auckland Golf Club years ago. The new course bears no resemblance to either of them.
  
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  December 10, 2022 8:46am
- Ultima
  
  He bought the hole in one coz he’s a rich prick.
  
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  December 10, 2022 8:46am
- peterwn
  
  Hope he had ‘hole in one’ insurance since a hole in one often means a very expensive 19th hole.
  
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  December 10, 2022 8:46am
  - yossarian
    
    I think he can afford it. I bet it won’t be Lion Red either
    
    11 1
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    December 10, 2022 9:47am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Can you imagine the dizzy one being invited to something like that? She is seen as an embarrassment, I note no glossy mag pics for a couple of years
  
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  December 10, 2022 9:41am
- nathie
  
  Judging by the jubilation and elation that surrounded John Key …
  
  Clearly Labour need to “rebrand” Jacinda Ardern as a superb golfer who can pull off a hole-in-one shot, but better still be doing it for charity!
  
  Hmmm wait a minute, exactly what has Jacinda Ardern been doing for charity over the years (like John Key has)?
  
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  December 10, 2022 10:00am
- mikenmildagain
  
  But is he in the same golfing class as Donald Trump, Barack Obama or Kim Jong-un?
  
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  December 10, 2022 10:04am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    I thought he and Obama we’re about equal, can’t beat Un with a round of 30 and 13 holes in one
    
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    December 10, 2022 10:35am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      And wasn’t that on Kim’s first-ever round of golf?
      
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      December 10, 2022 1:39pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Those other two are Donald Trump’s caddies.
    
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    December 10, 2022 12:03pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    He’s handy, Key is on a 7.1 handicap. Obama was on 13. Trump is streets ahead on 2.4. Kim Jong-un probably can’t even play the game. His claim of 13 holes in one means he’s a liar.
    
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    December 10, 2022 1:52pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I believe there is an entire book on how Trump got that remarkable handicap.
      
      3 5
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      December 10, 2022 3:57pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Really, I’d love to read it. I’m sure it’s full of verifiable evidence as good as that uncovered by the 2 year Russiagate investigation and the raid on Mar el Lago………
        
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        December 10, 2022 4:33pm
- alex Masterley
  
  Being pedantic it is “Royal Auckland and Grange”. Leaving that aside well done to Sir John on the HIO.
  
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  December 10, 2022 1:40pm
Rusty

Does anyone know if our PM can speak Te Reo not just some words and phrases but the language?

Probably could ask the same of the Pakeha/non Maori Labour MPs.
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December 10, 2022 8:32am
- pdm
  
  Rusty and a few of the (so called) Maori Caucus.
  
  There are plenty of Maori around who do not speak or understand Te Reo so inevitable that some would sneak into Parliament.
  
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  December 10, 2022 8:50am
  - Rusty
    
    @pdm
    
    I don’t know either way but surely Maori co-governance/ Te Puapua has a bilingual theme to it as well.
    
    You would think all who are pushing it would have some reasonable proficiency in Te Reo.
    
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    December 10, 2022 10:31am
- slightlyrighty
  
  Our last PM could, however, Bill English didn’t go around bragging about it.
  
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  December 10, 2022 9:19am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Exactly, and left the Māori elite gobsmacked, he never had notes either
    
    21 1
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    December 10, 2022 9:59am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Yes indeed; the morehu at Ratana Pa were pleasantly surprised when Bill English turned up there in January 2017, and began his Te Reo, and without notes.
      
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      December 10, 2022 12:09pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Sorry Tony, but you don’t ‘begin’ te reo on the paepae, just as you would not ‘begin’ English with a speech at your local council.
        
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        December 10, 2022 1:42pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Some words that are written for her
  
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  December 10, 2022 9:42am
Yvette

Thomas Cranmer: A government humiliated
… the effect of Mahuta’s power play has been to expose the two rival camps within Cabinet which remain unreconciled following yesterday’s reversal.

On one side is David Parker who has successfully pushed back against the Rotorua District Council representation bill earlier this year and more recently has resisted pressure from the Māori caucus to include equal co-governance arrangements in the new resource management legislation….

On the other side of the debate is the hugely experienced and powerful (some may say, out-of-control) Minister Nanaia Mahuta who has been laser-focused on implementing Three Waters and transforming governance at all levels within the country to a model which more closely aligns with her view of the Treaty of Waitangi. …
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/thomas-cranmer-a-government-humiliated

Whichever wolf you feed

Does Willie have to rewrite the 72 hui “targeted” Maori response, to He Paupau’s so-called “co-governance”, to get it past team Parker in Cabinet?
Is that why it hasn’t been fed to his Cabinet colleagues yet?
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December 10, 2022 8:33am
- pdm
  
  Yvette – I doubt Willie Jackson would have the WORK ETHIC to rewrite the legislation. He would shove that off on to one of his minions.
  
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  December 10, 2022 8:53am
  - Yvette
    
    Pdf, I realise Willie writes nothing but rather diss-informs – does not authentically represent those elite targeted Maori whom he consulted – and mis-informs –won’t tell Cabinet accurately what those elite targeted Maori, whom he consulted, told him. The Gatekeeper betrays both sides
    Yes, “re-write” doesn’t really define that process, sorry
    
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    December 10, 2022 9:35am
- rouppe
  
  David Parker may have successfully pushed back against the Rotorua District Council representation bill earlier this year, but he hasn’t pushed back against the housing accord between the government, rotorua Council and Te Arawa which states
  
  “Te Arawa beliefs and ideologies must be given “mana” and applied as directed by Te Arawa”
  
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  December 10, 2022 10:04am
- Opie
  
  And I think that answers the question above regarding the reshuffle.
  
  My bet is on David Parker to “retire” resulting in the only internal barrier to the racial takeover being removed.
  
  I don’t like parker particularly, but he has done the right thing a couple of times this year. Without him things would be even worse.
  
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  December 10, 2022 10:35am
Inandout

Some call these Twitter releases a second Watergate, and they seem to get better on each installment. Only NZ blogs mention them..funny that.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/twitter-files-flashback-jack-dorsey-testified-under-oath-twitter-does-not-censor-shadow-ban-conservatives/ar-AA155Jo6
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December 10, 2022 8:36am
Southern Raider

NSW is kicking off a massive new natural gas field project after identifying gas as a critical near term energy source.

NZ ……..
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December 10, 2022 8:39am
- kevn
  
  @Southern… Yep, best we just shut our energy source. Save it for the Chinese…///
  
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  December 10, 2022 8:52am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Oil and gas back here late next year, Luxon will deliver a captains call alongside Seymour
  
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  December 10, 2022 9:45am
  - Colville
    
    The great think about the oil/gas is its underground waiting for us and it has no expiry date..
    
    its just getting more and more valuable.
    
    17 0
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    December 10, 2022 10:22am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Nzis too Politically unstable to invest 100,s millions over 10 years.
    No ones coming back.
    
    15 0
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    December 10, 2022 11:03am
  - kevn
    
    @G… Too bad that the exploration companies have packed up and gone. It is not like just flicking a switch on and off.
    
    14 0
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    December 10, 2022 11:15am
  - Jack5
    
    Lot of down time towing offshore drilling rigs to and from NZ.
    
    Ardern has pretty much killed oil and gas development.
    
    It will most likely take years and years of post-Ardern stability to regain NZ a reputation as a viable oil/gas exploration country. If ever.
    
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    December 10, 2022 12:08pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Reversing the ‘Captain’s” call, that was never Law anyway.
  Wrong or correct?
  
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  December 10, 2022 6:15pm
Inandout

Some cynics say we need another war to clean up a sick society. I wouldn’t go that far but something needs to give.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/12/bidens-doe-pup-handler-charged-felony-theft-stealing-suitcase-minnesota-now-accused-stealing-luggage-las-vegas-airport/
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December 10, 2022 8:42am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Brinton “may be the first openly gender-fluid person in federal government leadership” after selection to be the deputy assistant secretary of Spent Fuel and Waste Disposition in the Office of Nuclear Energy for the Department of Energy in 2022 South Florida Gay News reported Brinton was “welcomed with open arms” at all levels of the organization, but others reacted hatred and disgust, some making death threats against the self-described “Nuclear Nerd”.
  Now on leave, with next court hearing before Xmas.
  
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  December 10, 2022 10:12am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    It’s an embarrassment.
    
    3 2
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    December 10, 2022 1:59pm
  - ISeeRed
    
    Less talk about gender fluids, thank you.
    
    4 2
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    December 10, 2022 2:27pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I don’t care what you have sworn off drinking, but good on you for trying.
      
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      December 10, 2022 4:00pm
Paulus

Awaiting to hear, like many Labour MPs, as to who is going to be “deselected” in her shuffle and will take redundency(with promises).
And I don’t mean List Memebers who on present polling will be well done and out of a job in many cases, unless they can get a Public Service jobs whic will probably happen.
I expect that in the background there are many shit fights going on for high List placing, with Ardern on Number 1 and Robertson on 2.
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December 10, 2022 8:43am
- Ghost
  
  Little has to lose health
  
  26 0
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  December 10, 2022 8:47am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Health has little to lose
    
    43 0
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    December 10, 2022 8:50am
    - Colville
      
      I am going to steal that!
      
      14 0
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      December 10, 2022 10:23am
  - kevn
    
    aka DO-LITTLE. Ask any nurse…
    
    16 1
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    December 10, 2022 8:53am
  - Nickc2
    
    Name one that should keep their Portfolio.
    
    17 0
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    December 10, 2022 9:03am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    I wouldn’t be surprised if Chipkins loses Education to the associate minister who answers all educational questions, snd appears to be calling policy
    
    10 0
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    December 10, 2022 9:50am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Health has to lose little
    
    6 0
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    December 10, 2022 9:54am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  HDA says Clark, and Nash to leave, I think Nash knows Katie will wipe his ass
  
  9 1
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  December 10, 2022 9:47am
  - MCōs
    
    In NZ we say *arse*
    Whatever
    That’s a pretty gross expression
    
    5 1
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    December 10, 2022 12:18pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Bwahahahahaha, i live here, and i won’t bother arguing about how we pronounce ass bwhahahahahahaha
      
      5 2
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      December 10, 2022 12:57pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        An ‘ass’ is a donkey. 😆
        How you gonna wipe that ?
        
        1 1
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        December 10, 2022 4:47pm
Surely Knott

High school graduation last night from a upper middle decile public Nz school. Approx 10-15 Scholarships were awarded from the main nz tertiary universities and tech, which ranged in value from 2500 to $23000.

5 school major prizes were also awarded.

All the prizes and scholarships were won by girls.

All good if it’s survival of the fittest. But Auckland uni like most modern governments and corporates support “equity” they even have an equity office and a gender equity programme. So what gives. You either support equity, or support the best at all costs , you can’t have it both ways.

And by the way is our schools set up for boys to succeed or is it a highly gendered success environment.
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December 10, 2022 8:47am
- Random T Person
  
  Not sure. But my 9 year old is the second brightest in his class, an 11 year old girl is ahead of him. My 7 yo is top of his class by a long shot. This is because they do homework every day and love learning. Girls do tend to be more diligent…
  
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  December 10, 2022 9:04am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  No-one notices. If it was the other way around ….
  
  The same is happening in the UK. Probably for the same reasons. Very unhealthy.
  
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  December 10, 2022 9:05am
  - Jack5
    
    Britain’s “Old Boys’ network” now has a parallel “Old Girls’ network”.
    
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11409613/Alumnae-12-leading-girls-public-schools-20-TIMES-likely-reach-elite-positions.html
    
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    December 10, 2022 12:27pm
- Nickc2
  
  A friend of mine took his granddaughter to the opening of the World Softball Championships held in Akld a week or so ago and he told me all the introductions etc were done in that new-age language called Te Reo. How are visiting teams going to understand that, let alone most Non-Maori NZers and many Maori?
  He said both he and his granddaughter didn’t understand any of it so they left.
  IMO, there should be a Language Warning included in all promotional material stating “Te Reo Language will often be used throughout each days play.”
  
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  December 10, 2022 1:24pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Some would say you’re a tick-hound, SK, but you get tea from me
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December 10, 2022 8:52am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Snark from the gay lobby.

It’s not clear on whether gay marriage will be recognised, or indeed how tourists will be required to prove their marital status. Will a common surname be sufficient, and what about those pesky husbands who refuse to let their wives take their surname?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/130716592/indonesias-new-sex-laws-welcome-to-gay-world-straight-people
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December 10, 2022 8:58am
Benedict Yu

A while back a woman named Violet Coco blocked the Sydney Harbour Bridge protesting about climate change. She has been sentenced to 15 months in prison.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-63883430

The UN climate folk are very unhappy.
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December 10, 2022 9:01am
- Nickc2
  
  It wasn’t her first offence. She had form and was a nutter.
  She’ll be back on the streets in 7.5 months, unfortunately.
  
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  December 10, 2022 9:12am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Twitter shadow banning. It see that Jack Dorsey lied before Congress in 2018.
“Let me be clear about one important and foundational fact: Twitter does not use political ideology to make any decisions. … We do not shadowban anyone based on political ideology.” Being a leftie, nothing will happen. Hillary has done it many times and should be in jail for that alone.
Dan Bongino is another victim. He has often said his tweets do not reach his readers. (I follow him on FB)
Now that Twitter is being cleaned out, we wait for tweets about Hunter and Joe Biden to be released. There are hundreds cancelled or deleted, and the senders terminated.
https://dailypatriotreport.com/?p=17013
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December 10, 2022 9:07am
- Nickc2
  
  I believe the best is yet to come with some being held back as Musk’s Insurance Policy.
  IMO, there’ll be a lot of US and non-US Luminaries sweating over these releases and those that are yet to come.
  Making Chartreuse Jumpsuits for US Democrats and their mates would be a good industry to invest in eh?
  
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  December 10, 2022 9:24am
  - Inandout
    
    Nick, you may well be correct on the insurance considering Biden’s minders are frantically scrambling to bring Musk down through his business interests. One phone call to the WH may have an effect.
    
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    December 10, 2022 9:54am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Musk is a smart guy. 3D chess, like another I know of.
      
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      December 10, 2022 12:22pm
- Vory v zakone
  
  Yep however @Jack better ‘lawyer up’.
  Only Part 2 of the #TwitterFiles so far and as Nickc2 mentions…
  #thebestisyettocome
  
  https://youtu.be/l-cO9BO4sek
  
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  December 10, 2022 10:30am
  - Ghost
    
    There really won’t be much of interest in the twitter files because it’s just internal conversations on the running of the business. At most it is a publicity project to get users to trust in the brand.
    
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    December 10, 2022 10:39am
    - All_on_Red
      
      The Twitter Files prove they actively suppressed information and therefore interfered in the Election(s) by doing so.
      Polling of Democrats show that 10% would not have voted for Joe Biden had they known about the corruption in Hunter Bidens Laptop
      
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      December 10, 2022 12:08pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Dorsey will just lie again. The left seem to be untouchable.
    Sticker on my Prado rear window. “Hillary for prison 2024”
    
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    December 10, 2022 12:26pm
- virtualmark
  
  Steve, two questions about the “Twitter files”.
  
  Qu 1: Do we know why these people were shawdow-banned?
  
  Neither Weiss or Taibbi has told us. There has been no info to show whether they were properly banned for breaching Twitter’s ToS, or improperly banned for their political views. You are leaping to assume it’s the latter but there’s been no evidence either way.
  
  Qu 2: Do we know whether the “right” has been targeted more than the others?
  
  Nope. Again, no evidence one way or the other has been released.
  
  Here’s what would be compelling … find just *one* example where a prominent right-winger was “shadow-banned” for a tweet that can clearly be shown to comply with Twitter’s terms of service. Surely that’s not hard to do right? Given that Twitter was a seething mass of partisan Democrat-leaning censors??? Or maybe, just maybe, that is hard to do because it didn’t happen?
  
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  December 10, 2022 12:39pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    You keep dancing on the head of a Pin with your Useful Idiot status.
    How about you show the tweet which got Dan Bongino Shadow Banned?
    I see you were parroting “Nothing Burger” yesterday.
    Just like everyone else in the Hive.
    “Conservatives: The reach of our tweets is being limited by a progressive Twitter workforce.
    Dems: That’s an insane conspiracy theory.
    Bari Weiss: Here are the docs proving this.
    Dems: Everyone knew this already. It’s an — all together now — nothing burger.”
    https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2022/12/09/musk-from-now-on-well-tell-you-youre-getting-shadowbanned-n516738
    Lol
    
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    December 10, 2022 1:56pm
    - virtualmark
      
      Red, you’re missing the point, and also making the point.
      
      Weiss didn’t release any tweet that got Dan Bongino shadow banned (if indeed he was, I don’t know). For all you and I know he could have been wrongfully banned for tweeting about a cookie recipe. Or he could have been tweeting something about elections or violence or whatever that did legitimately breach Twitter’s terms of service.
      
      I don’t know if Twitter was moderating things responsibly or partisanly. I’m open to both possibilities. But the Twitter file info to date (a) hasn’t shown that one way or the other and (b) has just shown processes, policies & procedures we already knew were in place. *That’s* why it’s a nothing-burger so far.
      
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      December 10, 2022 2:06pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Shadowbanning is shown in the overall process.
    To find one FB post or Twitter tweet that proves shadowbanning is stupid and childish.
    You keep dancing on that pin. Follow Elon Musk in the news that is not CNN type news.
    
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    December 11, 2022 8:17am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

This is what NZ needs to clamp down on rampant crime. I don’t think crims will argue too much.
https://gopnewsfeed.com/business-owner-says-enough-and-hires/
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December 10, 2022 9:16am
I remember when

US Jobs Created now 10,050,000 for the years 2021/2.
According to their results only once has a recession followed a year where more than 3m were created since 1941.
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December 10, 2022 9:19am
- Swifty
  
  They are in the most part recovered jobs (subsequent to the massive job losses during the initial pandemic) not ‘new’ jobs.
  
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  December 10, 2022 9:40am
I remember when

Global Warming Update: Daily Telegraph, UK.
Russia’s plumbers sent to fight in Ukraine – just when they are needed to fix boilers at homes.
Residents facing -40C freeze………
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December 10, 2022 9:23am
Maggy Wassilieff

If our Dear PM is off on trade missions next year, perhaps she could locate a reliable, clean source of liquid fuels for us..

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/national-cost-of-marsden-point-closure-highlighted-by-christmas-jet-fuel-shortage
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December 10, 2022 9:28am
NK

Re the baby no Vax blood case: It seems in this country if you love your baby so much and want to protect it but the State doesn’t accept your love, they take the baby from you quickly and with the force of the police. However, if you beat, abuse and eventually kill your baby, the State will find a million reasons why it either cannot intervene, or it will blame systems and culture and issue a report and promise to do better next time.

How fucked up is this.
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December 10, 2022 9:31am
- Benedict Yu
  
  The judge had no choice. The baby would have died. The law mandates the New Zealand Blood Service as the only provider of blood products to New Zealand hospitals. The NZBS does not provide bespoke blood products from nominated donors. It would have taken the judge about 5 minutes to decide.
  
  All surgical interventions involve risk. These parents were willing to sit back and watch their baby die from a serious heart defect.
  
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  December 10, 2022 9:39am
  - kevn
    
    @BY… That would not appear to be quite as clear cut. The media have been at it.
    A good article in https://dailytelegraph.co.nz/
    Author Mary Hobbs.
    Have a read and check in again.
    
    [Mod – fixed link]
    
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    December 10, 2022 9:53am
  - Ian Boag
    
    These parents were willing to sit back and watch their baby die from a serious heart defect.
    
    That’s a bit harsh. They just wanted to tell the medical system how the child’s care should be managed. I support the doctors, NZBS and the court.
    
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    December 10, 2022 9:58am
  - Sacha
    
    The parents were not ‘willing to sit back and watch their baby die’ from a serious heart defect.
    They were concerned that a product that was to be introduced in the child’s body to enable the surgery, may cause health problems in the years to come. The medical profession failed to allay their fears.
    The parents were overwhelmed by the state’s intervention and were obliged to capitulate. No wonder they are fearful and angry.
    
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    December 10, 2022 10:08am
    - Ghost
      
      The mother had already consented to a blood transfusion so the vaccinated blood was already given to the baby with her consent.
      
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      December 10, 2022 10:14am
      - Ian Boag
        
        Noone knows if the earlier transfusion was vaxxed blood or not … noone knows if the blood administered during the surgery was vaxxed or not.
        
        And we never will.
        
        Go figure,
        
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        December 10, 2022 10:34am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Ghost – you don’t know if it was vaccinated blood. Either way, the parents may have received information that made them concerned about further vaccinated blood. As is now known with the covid jab, the more you have, the greater the risk.
        
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        December 10, 2022 3:54pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Sacha – as we all should be. When two police officers come to your baby’s sick bed and the nurse uplifting your child is in tears.
      
      https://dailytelegraph.co.nz/news/watch-baby-w-cop-told-to-chuck-his-fg-badge-in/
      
      What is this country becoming?
      
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      December 10, 2022 3:52pm
  - NK
    
    You’ve completely missed my point. Let’s assume the State’s intervention was warranted. Compare it to Oranga Tamariki and other State agencies/interventions, or lack of, over many, many years, in situations where the parents clearly hated their children.
    
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    December 10, 2022 10:57am
  - leoj
    
    Judge would have been “under instruction” from the govt.
    If the judge was truly independent, he could have ruled that the NZBS take the unvaxxed blood offered by the 20 donors for the operation.
    This saga was a case of the govt not allowing to be seen to be defeated regarding the dodgy vaccine.
    Too many “dying suddenly” is not making it to the paid-off news media – yet more control of the narrative by this government.
    Question: Whose child is it?
    According to govt, the child belongs to the state and now the precedent has been set.
    Look out New Zealand!
    This govt is out of control.
    
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    December 10, 2022 11:27am
  - Keith White
    
    Blood Transfusion Services do collect and provide bespoke blood products from nominated donors e.g. sickle cell, rare groups. Also, BTS do stop blood from other donors they don’t want from being taken and used e.g. for decades if you’d lived in the UK during BSE your donation would not be accepted.
    
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    December 10, 2022 12:24pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Benedict – I am surprised at your intransigence on this. Normally you are one of the clearest thinking and most rational people posting here.
    
    The parents were not “willing to sit back and watch their baby die from a serious heart defect.”
    That is an awful slur and nor based on any reality and I find it sad that you wrote those words. I am sure you know this isn’t the case.
    
    The parents were clearly (and rightly) concerned about the potential for harm from vaccinated blood. You nor anyone else has any way of making a claim that it is a totally riskless procedure.
    
    They challenged the decision, they lost the case. The child has had what appears to be successful surgery. Here’s hoping that they recovery fully and there are no issues going forward.
    The power of the state won, but that doesn’t make it “right.”
    
    I won’t get into the whole debate around the “safety” or not of vaccinated blood, it’s complex and could take a whole new thread to discuss it. Suffice to say, we were lied to from the beginning of the covid circus in NZ, by politicians and the health services. Is it any wonder people do not trust these people? It was an inevitable outcome of the actions of government and their carefully chosen “experts.” Something you acknowledged yesterday.
    
    I watched you transition over an extended period of time from a strong advocate for vaccines to someone who now fully understands that most of the information was based on guesswork, assumptions and lies. That when evidence was provided showing the extent of this sham, it was suppressed yet the cowardly perpetrators continue to double down on their actions. You are someone I admire for your ability to accept new information and modify your position based on new evidence as it emerged. I thought you might have more perception and understanding of the parents’ position in this matter.
    
    Regarding the whole concept of directed or autologous blood, you stated:
    
    “I very much doubt that you would find ANY developed country where patients can arrange their own blood supply in hospitals.”
    
    A basic Google search shows that this isn’t the case. There are many countries that permit both and it looks like most states in the US certainly do. Also Canada. Not in the UK, but there certainly seems to be plenty of places doing it.
    
    https://www.redcrossblood.org/donate-blood/how-to-donate/types-of-blood-donations/autologous-and-directed-donations.html
    
    https://fourhearts.org/directed-donations/
    
    https://stanfordbloodcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/03-F09Form_DirectedDonationInfoSheet.pdf
    
    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13669877.2011.571778?journalCode=rjrr20
    
    As for NZ, you stated that it was a non argument because the law makes it impossible for this to be done. You linked to NZ government legislation.
    
    https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2008/0028/latest/DLM1154253.html
    
    It took me to the Human Tissues Act 2008.
    I read what I could, nowhere did I read that it was “illegal” to have either directed or autologous blood. If you have evidence that it does then I would appreciate you directing me to it. Apologies if it is easy to find and I didn’t look hard enough.
    
    Yesterday, to support your claim that it was illegal for the parents to ask for directed blood you also pointed me to the NZ Blood Service page. It references both autologous and directed blood. Again, I’ve read it and cannot see anywhere that it refers to either practice being illegal.
    
    The use of autologous blood is no longer recommended, unless the clinical circumstances are exceptional.
    
    You should ask your doctor to contact us should you require an autologous donation.
    
    NZBS does not support the practice of directed donations.
    NZBS will discourage requests to provide directed blood components for patients on the basis that there is no evidence that such components lead to improved patient care nor that they reduce the risk of acquiring transfusion associated infections.
    
    If there are exceptional clinical circumstances then the treating doctor should contact an NZBS doctor for discussion.
    
    https://www.nzblood.co.nz/become-a-donor/ways-to-donate/donating-blood-plasma-or-platelets/
    
    Nothing I have read states that this practice is illegal. It clearly states that in certain circumstances it can happen. This explains why the case was allowed to go to court. It means that this was a political decision, not a medical decision. That is a disgusting state of affairs and further reinforces the belief that this country is rapidly becoming a fascist dictatorship. State control of absolutely everything and a “single source of truth” with a bought and paid for mainstream media.
    It also further destroys trust in once respected institutions.
    
    I believe the orders for this came from the top. Probably indirectly, but Ardern knows that if this had been allowed to proceed it would have been seen as an admission that there was risk from the vacccines, which of course there is. Being the narcissistic dictator that she is, that was never going to be permitted. She is destroying this country.
    
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    December 10, 2022 3:39pm
    - Handyman
      
      1. What the NZBS says is immaterial. They do not make the law, but are required to enable it.
      2. Imagine that some people donate blood which has a small GMO component from some previous medical intervention. Now run the current situation through with a mother not wanting potential GMO remnants in the transfusion.
      
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      December 10, 2022 4:24pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Handyman, what is the law? It’s what I am asking. Benedict linked me to legislation, I cannot find anywhere that state it is “law”. Also I think it is fair to say if it was law the statement on the NZ Blood site wouldn’t be so ambiguous and open to misinterpretation. It would have meant there would have been no reason to even go to court.
        
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        December 10, 2022 4:36pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        ClanMcleod .. there is no provision in New Zealand for people to arrange their own “bespoke” blood donations for their children who need surgery. You may wish it otherwise but that is the situation. As I said this morning, the judge would have taken 5 minutes to decide this case.
        
        I agree that the misinformation about the vaccine has eroded trust in medical ‘experts’, me included. See the Pink Terror. However in this case, the judge made the right decision. These parents had access to a world class pediatric cardiac surgeon to save their kid from certain death. You need to deal with the cards that you are dealt with.
        
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        December 10, 2022 6:23pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      You said you were finished with this issue ….
      
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      December 10, 2022 7:44pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Ian – do you ever actually contribute to debate or are you like Statler and Waldorf and you just enjoy sniping from the sidelines?
        
        This is an open forum site for exactly this reason. This topic is a valid one for debate. Based on evidence so far I’ve come to the conclusion that it isn’t illegal for someone in NZ to get directed blood in exceptional circumstances. It’s then about whether or not this child’s situation was exceptional. I think it was, others think it wasn’t. In a normal world that’s called a difference of opinion, happens all the time, and is perfectly acceptable. Apparently no longer.
        I disagree with Benedict re his opinion of the parents. I find calling them “bogans” to be an unqualified smear and I was surprised to see him say that. But if that’s his opinion and he’s entitled to it.
        
        Maybe try adding something useful.
        
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        December 11, 2022 9:02am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The surgery has been done.
  Hopefully an unknown, unvaxed person was used for blood.
  The academic fuckwits gave in???
  
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  December 10, 2022 12:31pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Offguardian have done their usual good analysis on this case in NZ.
    
    Dangerous Precedent: NZ court orders baby removed from “anti-vax” parents
    
    he key detail here is that the parents have not, in any way, refused their child medical care – the usual prerequisite for this kind of court order. They want their son to have the surgery, they are simply setting reasonable terms.
    
    Now, whether or not the parents are correct and spike proteins do pose a threat, they have every right to try and do the best for their child as they see fit.
    
    To any pro “vaccine” people out there who are not OK with this, answer this simple question: What if parents of a vaccinated child had specifically requested vaccinated blood transfusions, and the court had removed the baby and injected it with unvaccinated blood…would that be OK?
    
    I’m guessing not. And the principle is clearly the same.
    
    The full article is very good and well worth reading.
    
    https://off-guardian.org/2022/12/08/dangerous-precedent-nz-court-orders-baby-removed-from-anti-vax-parents/
    
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    December 10, 2022 4:00pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      No it is not a dangerous precedent. It is protecting a baby from bogan parents.
      
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      December 10, 2022 6:26pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “Hopefully an unknown, unvaxed person was used for blood.”
    
    FFS. It does not work like that. Blood is pooled to produce six blood products, typed. This is really shitting me.
    
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    December 10, 2022 6:25pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      Leave Clan to it. He is pretty repetitious. Works on the principle that “if I say it enough times it must be right” ….
      
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      December 10, 2022 7:46pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Oh Grief…

There’s more to come with 3-5 waters…

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2212/S00094/labour-expands-on-three-waters-after-three-hours.htm
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December 10, 2022 9:32am
Maggy Wassilieff

So now, at the end of the political year, we discover something was in the woodshed after all

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/public-service-commissions-dim-view-of-mfe-process-related-to-mahuta-family-contracts/2537R7CDFRGC5CE6XPMOUOLYIA/
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December 10, 2022 9:39am
- Nickc2
  
  PSC was only aware of one family member…and the appointment of the other two changed the nature of the issues
  Shades of 5Waters?
  Didn’t the Maori theft of water and associated infrastructure bill start out as a single issue (3Waters)? Then, it grew into 5Waters after so-called consultation (Mahuta/Jackson style) into 5Waters.
  This has distinct similarities with the investigation into awarding Govt Contracts to Mahuta Corp where only one contract awarding was investigated and more were discovered uninvestigated.
  The common denominator here being Nanaia Mahuta. IMO, she should be sacked, fuck the dim view taken by the investigating authority.
  
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  December 10, 2022 10:24am
- artemisia
  
  Is John O’Connell, the MfE’s principal risk and assurance adviser, fit for purpose?
  
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  December 10, 2022 11:19am
Steve Todd

Back on 14 November, slightlyrighty said he would love to know who “bankrolled” Tory Whanau’s mayoral campaign (see https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2022/11/how_the_preferences_went_in_wellington.html/comment-page-1#comment-3273786).

All is now revealed. Tory received $8,500 in donations and spent $59,844.03 (see https://wellington.govt.nz/-/media/your-council/elections/2022/returns/tory-whanau_mayor_donations-expenses.pdf).

Just as I said would more than likely be the case, she paid for her own campaign, supplemented by donations (from just four people, one of whom appears to be former Wellington City Councillor and current Hutt City Councillor, Chris Parkin).
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December 10, 2022 9:39am
- All_on_Red
  
  She won Lotto so could afford it.
  
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  December 10, 2022 10:08am
  - NothingLeft
    
    I wouldn’t vote for someone who won, or regularly played lotto – lotteries are a voluntary tax on stupid/useless (or desperate) people.
    
    6 5
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    December 10, 2022 11:03am
    - Steve Todd
      
      A truly stupid comment, NL.
      
      Tory Whanau has said that, when she won Lotto first division, it was the first and only time she has played Lotto. She was 20 at the time: she is now 39/40.
      
      Tory is the only person I’m aware of who has won Lotto first division. So, my question to you, NL, is simply this. Given that candidates don’t say – indeed, are never asked – if they play Lotto/Powerball, how would you know?
      
      Or were you really just saying you wouldn’t vote for Green / Lefty candidates?
      
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      December 10, 2022 12:50pm
- NK
  
  Yeah I’m sure there were no hidden donations. I am sure she’s an honest Green Party politician.
  
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  December 10, 2022 11:22am
  - Colville
    
    an honest Green Party Politician…riding a unicorn?
    
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    December 10, 2022 4:20pm
- MCōs
  
  Peanuts compared to that which Leo Molloy spent.
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-government/128612460/auckland-mayoralty-leo-molloy-expects-to-spend-15-million-on-campaign
  
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  December 10, 2022 12:03pm
curry4me

https://nypost.com/2022/12/09/twitter-and-democrats-lied-about-censorship/
Twitter — and Democrats — lied, lied and lied again about censorship.
“1984” author George Orwell warned that “if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought.” That line has never been more relevant than in the aftermath of the second release of Twitter documents this week.
Many liberals had denied the social media giant was engaging in censorship by using the more pleasant term “content modification.” Now documents show Twitter executives burying “disfavored” views as “visibility filtering” and “amplification” limits.
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December 10, 2022 9:42am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It’s all about stopping anything center right, so the Democrats can cheat.
  
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  December 10, 2022 12:34pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuXMh-nBuBs

Iranian Leaders To Escape To Venezuela As Uprising Escalates.

Things must be pretty bad for the Mullahs if they think Venezeula looks good. Maybe it has better wifi than Paris?
If the protestors succeed Iran could become either a republic, or a constitutional monarchy. [8:10]
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December 10, 2022 9:42am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  And they will be joined by their mate Vlad.
  
  If the people of China can get rid of Xi then he will join them there
  
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  December 10, 2022 1:50pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Poor Venezuela!
    
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    December 10, 2022 7:25pm
Maggie Pie

Remember earlier in the week I alerted the group to a story which appeared in the SCMP, regarding the rumor that Chynah has a ‘secret spy-network’ operating in more than 100 countries around the world, New Zealand being one of them 🙁

Later that day, Cindy appeared on the News saying….”she had no knowledge of any such thing, and doubted they would be here in this country without the government knowing”

Well, so much for her denials! This from ‘The Horrid’ yesterday….

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1601104712404713472
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December 10, 2022 9:43am
I remember when

SST Headline:
Let’s be honest, do we really want more migrants?

Next Question: When is it going to be suggested we will be penalised by our trading partners if we don’t?
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December 10, 2022 9:49am
- Jack5
  
  SST?
  
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  December 10, 2022 11:08am
- westernScientist
  
  Wanting them is all very well, but its only half of the equation, there has to be some that actually want to come as well, and that list might be a lot shorter than it was 5 years ago….
  
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  December 10, 2022 12:29pm
kevn

@Maggie… She would know? No.
I’m sure China don’t share everything with arden.
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December 10, 2022 9:55am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.
https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/why-we-must-avoid-the-language-of-capitulation-part-3/
https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/The-language-of-capitulation-part-2.pdf

This is a repeat from 2 days ago, on a post from NZCPR (Dr Muriel Newman.)
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December 10, 2022 9:59am
nathie

It’s “interesting” how the ever important TV news coverage of the Hamilton West by-election seems to feature both the Labour and National candidates, but not the incumbent MP Dr Gaurav Sharma.

It’s almost as if the MSM have taken the Labour Party’s character assassination of him as gospel, and like anyone standing in local body elections against the Govt covid narrative, were blanked out by the MSM (unless they were doing hit pieces against them a la Stuff).

And could it be said that the MSM are displaying unconscious “casual racism” against Dr Sharma? After all if he were, for example, the incumbent Maori Party or Green Party MP (defending against the two main parties), you can bet they would have received some TV coverage.

Anyway all the best for Dr Sharma in the by-election, he stood up to the bullying Labour Party (when the rest of them were cowards) and took a stand based on principle. He is a man of honor. We need more politicians like him that are not afraid to speak up for truthfulness and honesty when their Party is in the wrong.

How Labour get away with this is incredible. If it were National they would be hounded day-after-day, week-after-week until they changed their ways. But somehow when it is Labour involved the MSM “forget” all this and move on as if it never happened …
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December 10, 2022 10:18am
- Ghost
  
  Radio nz https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/480395/candidates-go-all-out-in-bid-for-votes-in-hamilton-west-by-election
  
  One news https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/12/09/voter-turnout-essential-for-hamilton-west-by-election-candidates/
  
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  December 10, 2022 10:24am
- Steve Todd
  
  […] seems to feature both the Labour and National candidates, but not the incumbent MP Dr Gaurav Sharma.
  
  You protest (way) too much, nathie. Gaurav Sharma’s political career ended on 18 October 2022, when he resigned from parliament and forced an unwelcome by-election on the good people of Hamilton West.
  
  This election is being conducted by the FPP electoral system. That means it will be won by one of the two main candidates, i.e., Tama Potaka (National) or Georgie Dansey (Labour). No other candidate will get a look in.
  
  Dr Sharma is no Winston Peters (1992/93). Therefore, it doesn’t matter that he resigned “on a matter of principle”. He is a minor, also-ran, candidate in this election, only slightly elevated above the nine other minor candidates. Consequently, there is no reason why the two main TV channels / MSM should have felt compelled to pay much more than cursory attention to him. He is not where the action is at.
  
  Sorry, but it’s as simple as that.
  
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  December 10, 2022 11:57am
  - David Garrett
    
    Steve: I agree…both Dr Sharma and anyone else who thought he could hold the seat as an independent were and are delusional.
    
    If he wanted to be the independent Member for Hamilton West he should not have resigned.
    
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    December 10, 2022 12:17pm
    - cmm
      
      I don’t remember all the details, but didn’t the Waka jumping rule force him into resigning?
      
      With the modern political system (largely based on party proportional), it seems that independent candidates really don’t stand a chance in NZ. Sure, there have been a few one-man-band parties, but they have been exceptions.
      
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      December 10, 2022 12:56pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Yes, Labour would have expelled him so he didnt have a lot of choice.
        I think Steve is being a bit harsh. Gaurev is the incumbent. He got fairly elected last time so there should be coverage about how he’s going.
        Of course Labour luvvies and the Media (but I repeat myself) would NOT want to assist him with coverage- partisan hacks that they are.
        
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        December 10, 2022 2:00pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        […], but didn’t the Waka jumping rule force him into resigning?
        
        Sharma reckoned that Labour was going to pull the plug on him before the six-month period kicked in, so he decided to retaliate first. (See https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2022/10/sharma_resigns_-_by-election_in_hamilton_west.html.) True? Who would know? But it doesn’t matter. He bailed, and here we are.
        
        […], it seems that independent candidates really don’t stand a chance in NZ.
        
        Correct. Firstly, the advent of the FPP two-party system in the 1930s saw the consequent demise of independent MPs. The last independent candidate/MP to be elected to parliament at a general election was Harry Atmore (Nelson), in 1943 (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Atmore).
        
        Secondly, MMP is a Party List system of proportional representation. Independent candidates can only be elected via the electoral districts.
        
        At the 1993 Tauranga by-election (17 April) (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Tauranga_by-election), Winston Peters stood for re-election as an Independent, but Labour did not stand a candidate against him. But, as I’m sure we all acknowledge, he is a special case.
        
        As I stated here, https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2022/10/pm_tries_to_bury_by-election_with_christmas.html/comment-page-1#comment-3262745, Gaurav Sharma is already a political footnote in history. In that regard, I’ve just seen AoR’s comment. Perhaps I am being a bit harsh, but then, FPP is a brutal system and the MSM does comprise commercial entities.
        
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        December 10, 2022 2:36pm
- cmm
  
  Does this by election actually achieve much?
  
  Sure, it’s a poke in the eye for Labour.
  
  But does it really change the seats in parliament? And it certainly doesn’t shift the balance of power.
  
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  December 10, 2022 12:21pm
  - peterwn
    
    By-election will not directly achieve anything (unlike the Northland by-election in 2015 which gave Winston a foot in the door). However there would be indirect consequences:
    1. A vote of confidence for Mahuta. If Labour loses it could mean that she loses some of her standing and authotity in the Labour Caucus.
    2. A vote of confidence for Chris and his team if the National candidate wins (or loses by only a small margin). A National win would be a significant morale booster for National in the lead up to next years election.
    
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    December 10, 2022 12:38pm
- MCōs
  
  Dr Sharma’s time as member for Hamilton West has run its course and he’s history.
  That’s why any coverage he does get is only out of politeness.
  Similarly there are nine other candidates including members of the New Conservatives, Outdoors Party, ACT & Vision NZ.
  Be interesting to see if the recent fuss over baby at Starship has any effect.
  
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  December 10, 2022 2:39pm
  - peterwn
    
    No need to shed any tears for him. He has ample career options. The world is his oyster.
    
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    December 10, 2022 5:33pm
Maggie Pie

FOX reporting…. Canada has had to garbage over a Billion Dollars worth of expired Astra-Zeneca Covid vaccine!

Wonder what the figure is for Aotearoa’s old stocks of Pfizer?
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December 10, 2022 10:31am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, I am sure some countries dumped their dated stock in Africa.
  
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  December 10, 2022 11:10am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Didn’t Spain dump some of its vaccine stock in NZ?
    
    https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/additional-pfizer-vaccines-arrive-tomorrow
    
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    December 10, 2022 1:17pm
- kevn
  
  @Maggie… All paid for no doubt.
  
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  December 10, 2022 11:53am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The African Elites need more BMWs and mansions?
    
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    December 10, 2022 12:44pm
- cmm
  
  Don’t forget that a whole bunch of the early ones in NZ were from Spain. They were about to expire and would have been written off had NZ not stepped in and taken them off Spain’s hands.
  
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  December 10, 2022 12:16pm
- Colville
  
  How many million RAT tests got binned?
  
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  December 10, 2022 1:43pm
Suze Wainwright

Aren’t tiny homes something of a greenie love child?
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December 10, 2022 10:44am
- Jack5
  
  It’s relative, Suze.
  
  Many of the Victorian-era homes in NZ were pretty small, and they typically had big families.
  
  However, you have a point about Green influence. Are you old enough to remember Greens wandering the country in small homes built on trucks and resembling something out of Lord of the Rings or out of fairy tales?
  
  If we less rigid control over town expansion and developed a prefab industry approaching the quality of Sweden’s there would be little room in the market for tiny homes.
  
  https://www.forbes.com/sites/sherikoones/2019/02/18/extraordinary-prefab-houses-around-the-world/?sh=57c8a6e84386
  
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  December 10, 2022 11:03am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    The greenies who culturally appropriate themselves as Gypsies are still out there
    
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    December 10, 2022 11:57am
  - All_on_Red
    
    3D printing is the future
    https://www.iconbuild.com/projects
    
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    December 10, 2022 12:16pm
    - cmm
      
      No, not really. There are other computer controlled technologies – for example NC cutting which can cut 2x4s and wall panels to shape.
      
      It is possible to deliver a flat-pack house that can be “constructed” (ie. bolted together and sealed) by a team of 6 in less than a day.
      
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      December 10, 2022 12:51pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        I was thinking more about what NASA are wanting them to create for a Moon based Station
        Also, wood is in short supply in some places.
        
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        December 10, 2022 2:03pm
      - Jack5
        
        An Australian version of 3D printing in house construction:
        
        https://www.9news.com.au/national/melbourne-company-fortex-3d-printing-entire-homes/710a97e6-7343-43d3-953f-0de832d59f32
        
        3D printed houses entail a lot of concrete.
        
        What could Hitler have done with 3D printing on the Atlantic Wall and the Siegfried Line?
        
        https://concretehomes.com/3d-printed-houses/
        
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        December 10, 2022 4:36pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        It is possible to deliver a flat-pack house that can be “constructed” (ie. bolted together and sealed) by a team of 6 in less than a day.
        
        Dunno about “less than a day” but qbh.co.nz could likely do it in a week. Depends on whether you count the site prep – water/sewer connection and piles etc.
        
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        December 10, 2022 7:52pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

AGW definition:
Once again, here is the short version.
1) Money
2) Power
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December 10, 2022 10:52am
kevn

@Jack5… ZURU have a huge modular homes factory, Thailand I believe.
zuru.tech
Trying to crack the market into NZ will drive them mad. Fletchers will do their best to stifle it.
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December 10, 2022 11:57am
- Jack5
  
  Ecotech was reported in 2018 as bringing in prefabs from China, and talked of a potential 7,000 or 8,000 a year.
  
  This article from four years ago points out one of the problems with prefabs: finance – that is security for a mortgagee before the house is finished and set up.
  
  When a house is made overseas a letter of credit is also needed with bridging finance to cover shipment as well as while the house is finished in a factory.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/104985147/chinese-factories-could-build-8000-homes-a-year-for-kiwis
  
  Ecotech Commercial (NZ) Ltd, owned in Auckland and Nelson, seems to have a target of up to 10,000 Chinese prefabs a year:
  
  https://www.ecotechcommercial.com/new-page-2
  
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  December 10, 2022 12:42pm
- cmm
  
  Just about everywhere in the world uses some sort of pre-fabrication in most of their buildings (even if it is NC cutting of 2x4s). Not here in NZ. Just about every house is custom construction by hand. This really pushes up prices.
  
  NZ did do some of that pre-fab building back in the 1950s/60s (eg. a lot of the old state houses), but it seems rare these days.
  
  There’s absolutely nothing wrong with a double-wide (or even single wide for that matter). These can be factory built out of the rain and built way cheaper than on-site construction.
  
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  December 10, 2022 12:45pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    There was a prefab house outfit in the Hutt that went belly up a year or two back…
    
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    December 11, 2022 8:24pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Fraemohs and Lockwood have been doing kitset homes here forever.
    
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    December 11, 2022 9:21pm
cmm

I see the cops in Waikato are currently walking around armed. I suppose they feel unsafe with a criminal at large.

What about the rest of us? Can I carry a gun too? How about the dairy owner who can’t even have a pepper spray!

I understand the concern about untrained people walking around with firearms, but many of us (myself included) have far more experience with firearms, and their safe usage, than the cops do.
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December 10, 2022 12:39pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The cops will be trained by instructors who have very little knowledge of combat situations. They teach loading and unloading, and shooting at targets.
  7 years old, I was down in the gully shooting big rats with a .22 rifle.
  Illegal? Yes. This was way out in the sticks beyond nowhere.
  Never shot a hand gun until I went to Alaska. The slide on a brand new 9mm got my thumb. Siren went, everyone on safety, just for a little cut. Blood pressure pills make me bleed like fuck. They all thought I had shot my thumb of LOL
  Bandaged, then 15 min later back into it. I enjoyed that day!
  
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  December 10, 2022 12:54pm
  - cmm
    
    While I think supervised range shooting has its role, I don’t think it is anywhere enough for actually learning to shoot effectively and safely in a real world. Weapons handling on a range is nothing like the real world.
    
    I think you learn a lot more shooting tin cans, hunting and the sort of crap kids get up to.
    
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    December 10, 2022 2:15pm
    - Colville
      
      I think you will find that IPSC matches would prepare you for the real world a whole lot better than shooting at cans.
      
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      December 10, 2022 4:28pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The training needs to find out the intelligence level so the training can teach how to analise and think quick. Do I fire the weapon now? Do I wait a little longer to see what happens? Has the crim got any other weapons? Does the crim seem level headed or deranged? Is he on drugs? All of these things come into play – and it could save your life.
      
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      December 11, 2022 8:27am
- JJ56
  
  It’s also an election today …
  
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  December 10, 2022 2:25pm
  - cmm
    
    I’m not sure how that is relevant.
    
    It’s a bad look for Labour that the crims are in control and the cops feel the need to arm themselves.
    
    Or are you suggesting that the cops are out en mass with firearms to protect the population from white supremacist terror threats? If so, pull the other one!
    
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    December 10, 2022 2:31pm
    - JJ56
      
      More to protect the ruling elite when the Nats deliver the government a rout.
      
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      December 10, 2022 2:50pm
Tony Stuart

Christopher Luxon yesterday promised to fund Mike King’s I Am Hope charity, and other community mental health initiatives. During the conversation he said National would “get the cash out of Wellington and give it to frontline services”.

That’s a phrase and a sentiment likely to resonate with tens of thousands of voters, and it’s one that should be used regularly used to differentiate National from Labour’s centralisation strategy.

Mental Health is going to play a big role in the election campaign, and in Matt Doocey, National has someone passionate about Mental Health. National’s plan is to place MH in its own ministry, where it will be far easier to set targets and demand accountability, rather than just see $1.9 billion vanish into the ether as has happened under Labour’s watch.
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December 10, 2022 1:14pm
- Ghost
  
  Health is going to be a big issue at the election. The gp is giving all patients awaiting operations Andrew Little’s email and telling them how labour’s has screwed health. The orthopedics surgeons here are doing the same. I’ve even heard the gp’s very labour receptionist telling people how labour have screwed health.
  
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  December 10, 2022 1:26pm
- Steve Todd
  
  During the conversation he said National would “get the cash out of Wellington and give it to frontline services”.
  
  I cannot abide phrases like that. Wayne Brown talks about “Wellington”, too.
  
  I will not give either of my two votes to any party that, when referring to the government, says “Wellington”.
  
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  December 10, 2022 4:09pm
  - crikey
    
    I’m with you Steve. I live in the greater Wellington area, I’m a Wellingtonian in that sense. It has long pissed me off that my city/province gets trashed in this way. People mean Parliament, for fucks sake, so should refer to it as such. There are many more politicians in parliament than Wellingtonians.
    
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    December 10, 2022 5:43pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Thanks, crikey.
      
      And what is unbelievable, is that the person Tony references as referring to “Wellington” is none other than the desperately wannabe prime minister, i.e., the wannabe head of “Wellington”, Christopher Luxon!
      
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      December 10, 2022 6:27pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    Steve the phrase is correct. 51% of ATs funding for capital and open comes from Wellibgton. Look at Michael Wood, 2 weekends on the trot, he has been telling us about all the great speed
    ING the government is showering on the region’s (including Auckland) for transport projects. In all instances spending taxpayer money without recourse to local councils and residents.
    
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    December 10, 2022 7:34pm
kevn

labour have screwed… everything.
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December 10, 2022 1:34pm
Prince

Interesting that Stuff’s cartoonist (surprise surprise) chooses to display Labour banner on election day…

“Take down election signs and hoardings before election day. Keep vehicles with signs, bumper stickers, or flags with party or candidate material out of public view on election day. ” – Elections.nz rules.
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December 10, 2022 2:03pm
- JJ56
  
  It was however under water …
  
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  December 10, 2022 2:23pm
  - Prince
    
    Or arguably shining bright through pristine waters now.
    
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    December 10, 2022 2:39pm
  - Colville
    
    It should have been shown sinking in a sewerage pond…
    
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    December 10, 2022 4:30pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  They showed it sinking under 3waters.
  
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  December 10, 2022 8:43pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Oh Dear..

Our love affair is over..

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/12/new-zealanders-jacinda-ardern-love-affair-is-coming-to-an-end-telegraph-article-says.html
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December 10, 2022 2:42pm
- Ghost
  
  Love affair? More like she forced herself and her policies against peoples will
  
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  December 10, 2022 3:00pm
  - H. Upmann
    
    Yes, there is a word for forced “love”.
    
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    December 10, 2022 6:10pm
- Hugh Jarse
  
  I think they must mean the NZ Herald and medias love affair with the PM. The actual result of the 2017 election was National about 56%, Labour about 44%. Labours ratings prior to Covid weren’t that hot either. As we all know it was only Winston First going against the will of the voters that put her in.
  
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  December 10, 2022 4:07pm
  - marcw
    
    Your election results are wrong – otherwise National would have been the Government. It was more like National 44%, Labour 37%, and with the Greens and Judas votes, Winston gave Labour the majority.
    
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    December 10, 2022 6:16pm
    - Hugh Jarse
      
      Yep correct I got mixed up between seats and %. However the National party ended up with 10 seats more than Labour. Hardly a love affair, with the other 18 or so seats spread between the Greens and Winston First which was the point of my post.
      
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      December 11, 2022 11:54am
- Inandout
  
  Maggy, normally a love affair involves pleasure.
  
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  December 10, 2022 4:56pm
Maggie Pie

Reading thru all the replies, nobody gives a flying-fcuk that Elton John has said he’s quitting Twitter!

LOL.
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December 10, 2022 3:53pm
Ghost

France Is Banning Short-Haul Domestic Flights in a Bid to Reduce Carbon Emissions

The European Commission (EC) has given French officials the green light to ban select domestic flights if the route in question can be completed via train in under two and a half hours.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/france-banning-short-haul-domestic-173000592.html
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December 10, 2022 4:13pm
- Colville
  
  France does have great trains…
  
  Comfy chairs and wine delivered to your seat!
  
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  December 10, 2022 4:31pm
Surely Knott

From Twitter:

Tom Fitton @TomFitton
Breaking: @ElonMusk @Twitter
Files show Twitter activist employees, without basis, suppressed and censored the President of the United States, @realDonaldTrump
in the days before the 2020 election. This is damning evidence of election interference.

Elon Musk @elonmusk
Replying to @TomFitton @Twitter and
@realDonaldTrump
Unequivocally true. The evidence is clear and voluminous.
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December 10, 2022 4:52pm
Maggie Pie

Spare a thort fir all those at ‘Christnas-in-the-Park’ LOL!!

And what about the look on Robbos face? Sayz it all 😀

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1601309746291773443
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December 10, 2022 6:37pm
- Ghost
  
  Isn’t that the Grinch That Stole Christmas?
  
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  December 10, 2022 6:41pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Mahuta looks like she is putting a ‘tapu’ on someone.
  
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  December 11, 2022 8:38am
Swifty

What the hell is going on in this country?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/motorists-warned-as-newly-tarred-sh1-section-north-of-auckland-peels-off/3QFV6Q2BSNFXXLI3N5VJZJ662A/
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December 10, 2022 6:38pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  No decent bitumen in the country anymore.
  
  and NZTA probably bringing in crapitumen.
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/465114/nzta-taking-control-of-nz-s-supply-of-bitumen-for-roading
  
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  December 10, 2022 6:53pm
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    Unintended consequences of shutting down the Marsen oil refinery?
    
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    December 10, 2022 8:39pm
    - Keith White
      
      I am not disagreeing with you when I suggest these are entirely intended consequences of the Glorious Ardernistas’ Revolution in the People’s Democratic Maori Republic of Iwistan, 2022.
      
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      December 11, 2022 2:11am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Transmission Gully is being resealed, and about time too.
  
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  December 10, 2022 7:36pm
Maggie Pie

We just heard thru the grapevine that even the normally delusional Clint Smith has privately admitted Labor have had their arses handed to them on a plate tonite.

YUM YUM!!
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December 10, 2022 8:33pm
- Ghost
  
  All that matters is Jacinda will know she really won no matter what the results are because in her mind she is as loved as harry and what’s her name
  
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  December 10, 2022 8:38pm
cmm

Some odd helicopter activity in Chch this evening.

More ramraiding scrotes on the loose?

https://www.flightradar24.com/ZKIWS/2e7dc7b3
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December 10, 2022 8:53pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Reports of yet another stabbing in the New Brighton Mall near Marine Parade 🙁
  
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  December 10, 2022 9:11pm
- Keith White
  
  cmm: I denounce you for your speculation, and I denounce myself for agreeing with you. The yoofs involved were incapable of directing their own destiny becuz of colonisation; also they were turning their lives around, they are honor students, they are helping out at rest homes, and they support enshrinement of co-governance into Aotearoa’s laws without which they cannot be expected to stop offending.
  
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  December 11, 2022 2:09am

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