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December 4, 2022 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 04 December 2022

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General Debate

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Yvette

Has Mahuta thrown Jacinda unda the bus?
And why is Christopher Luxon not driving the bus?

Is it truth or a myth that people talk politics or similar issues over their summer BBQs?
Or just – Who burnt the sausages and how much the bloody things cost
And can Luxon set the agenda as to what summer burnt sausage eaters discuss?
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December 4, 2022 8:02am
- pdm
  
  Yvette sometimes Luxon seems so disinclined to put the boot into Ardern and Labour that I think he is asleep at the wheel of the National party.
  
  He needs to harden up and take the opportunities that Labour gifts to him.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:09am
  - leoj
    
    Wet and keeping his powder dry at the same time!
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:22am
  - Gravelroad
    
    @pdm-
    It seems to me that Mr Luxon displays a passive management leadership style rather than a motivational style aimed at inspiring the individual.
    Some people are content to be managed.
    But a lot more want to be led, told what to do/think and be made to feel special by a smiling person on TV – such as Ms Ardern – whose major skill is being “relatable”.
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:33am
    - septic skeptic
      
      The PM job is more than just managing the cabinet.
      
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      December 4, 2022 9:56am
  - Positan
    
    Luxon’s not any sort of political leader. He lacks gravitas, doesn’t show any trace of political instinct and so far, no trace of the ability to capitalise on any of the gifted instances of Labour’s manifold failings.
    National should dump him for Willis who shows him up, albeit faintly – at every turn. National won’t secure any sort of sizeable majority under him.
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:52am
    - Positan
      
      The down-ticks show just how unaware and non-discerning so many Nat supporters have become. As a Nat since 1969, Young Nat, long time Exec Committee member, and briefly electorate chairman, I’m appalled at the outright doziness of those who think that National, when elected, will fix all. It won’t because there’s no way it can. It’s hugely lacking in ministerial talent – far too many of the MPs I’ve met are self-interested seat-warmers lacking in genuine resolve and capability; and the problems we face now can only ever be addressed with hard, pragmatic decisions that pay no heed whatsoever to wishy-washy, emotive, PC-considerations. This country is right on the edge of collapse, economically, socially and racially. Realistically, we have but a few short months before correction (under the present style of fatuous thinking) will become completely impossible.
      
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      December 4, 2022 12:59pm
      - PaulL
        
        The down ticks could mean anything. Could mean people think Nicola would be little better, rather than any thought Luxon is doing a good job. Perhaps he’ll learn on the job, but I’m not seeing it yet.
        
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        December 4, 2022 1:41pm
      - Lara
        
        I think you should get out more. They have a great team!
        
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        December 4, 2022 2:42pm
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        The downticks are an indication that most people don’t actually think the country is about to collapse. Problems and difficulties, yes. But nowhere near collapse. And thus not needing highly radical surgery. Fixes, yes; revolution, no.
        
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        December 4, 2022 5:50pm
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        Actually the revolution is already well underway – just being led by the Queen of the Global Socialists.
        
        The downticks are mainly from frogs cosy in what they think is a spa pool or emus relaxing in the sand. Apathy, fear, and misplaced trust – a cocktail similar to that in Europe when Poland was annexed.
        
        Time to wake up from dream world Wayne!
        
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        December 4, 2022 6:43pm
    - peterwn
      
      Too late now. Replacing him now would be a gift from heaven to Labour. Jacinda and Robbo would just love to see him replaced
      
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      December 4, 2022 2:02pm
      - Positan
        
        As a thinking adult I’ve witnessed the consequences of five elections where National deposed Labour. Each time the constraints implemented, made necessary by Labour’s ineptitude, made the following three years pretty miserable. Clark’s time rendered the smallest impact of all the others – except for Cullen’s final illegitimate swipe, the committing of the incoming government to billions for NZ Rail’s buyback.
        This coming election will have us facing unprecedented debt, demoralised businesspeople and farmers, a union-disorganised workforce, record unemployment, an appalling education structure, a demoralised health structure, with far higher numbers on welfare and government payrolls than ever before. Ask yourself, what results will be gained through Luxon’s sort of touchy-feely measures?
        With the manifold problems that’ll have to be addressed, replacing Labour with a different brand of uninspiring leadership that’ll pays far too much heed to PC-slanted trivia and non-priorities simply won’t get us anywhere.
        
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        December 4, 2022 7:44pm
  - fredonas
    
    This same inability to seize upon and leverage the ample opportunities provided by Labour’s incompetence is what weakened and ultimately ended Simon Bridge’s political career.
    Luxon and his shadow cabinet will need to crank up their efforts significantly in 2023 if they want to present themselves to voters as a “government in waiting” in the lead up to the election in September.
    
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    December 4, 2022 12:26pm
    - H. Upmann
      
      Bridges was executed by media and woke/weak National was sucked in. National would be in a very different position now if he were still #1.
      
      BTW – I am not a National voter.
      
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      December 4, 2022 8:53pm
- slightlyrighty
  
  When your opponent is screwing up this badly, sometimes the best thing to do is just let it happen.
  
  If Luxon were to get involved, Ardern and the Labour Spin Machine would blame him. Now, they can’t.
  
  Luxon’s best move is to let this play out, and reap the benefits.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:14am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Exactly. The story would shift from Labour’s stuff up to National/Luxon’s reaction to it and how nasty they are.
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:36am
    - Lara
      
      So true, Labour is doing a very good job of poohing in its own mess! With the MSM being in bed with Labour, the less said, the better, at this stage.
      
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      December 4, 2022 2:45pm
  - Positan
    
    God save us – National is not going to win on the basis of Labour’s appalling performance. If National doesn’t come across far more competently than it has shown itself, what sort of administrative capability to face the WORST set of problems the country’s ever faced will it render the electorate?
    Peters is on the rise simply because he’s saying the sort of things that, in the past, a genuine National leader would have said.
    ACT’s credibility is far higher in the electorate than Luxon’s and ACT is going to vastly increase its holding, solely at National’s expense, obviously because Seymour is far more of a political leader than Luxon will ever be.
    
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    December 4, 2022 10:37am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Slipping off the hook is not screwing up badly. Luxon may finally be losing his brash confidence, signs of it this week was his repetition of relying on people recognizing that he was once a CEO. Nobody generally cares about his posturing about once being a CEO when he makes one blunder after another they lose confidence.
    He also recently talked about his fall in leadership popularity by saying things would be different when people get to know him. What’s to know?
    National still doesn’t have a roadmap and Luxon cannot think on his feet. After the Sandringham robbery, he could have made the point not to confront armed robbers.
    And on another recent issue regarding Judge giving sentencing discounts by saying that some of them should only apply subject to progress during the sentence and not before.
    As a CEO he may have been the type to blame mistakes on others and take credit for ideas that weren’t his.
    Tough life in the trenches if you don’t have a natural instinct to read things as they develop.
    
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    December 4, 2022 12:32pm
    - Lara
      
      I heard him speak today and he was excellent. We are never going to get rid of this government if we bag our leader. Get behind him and we will win. Two ticks blue is the only way.
      
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      December 4, 2022 2:48pm
      - leoj
        
        National’s spine can only be provided by ACT.
        
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        December 4, 2022 6:09pm
      - Positan
        
        Actions speak far louder than words – haven’t you been observing Ardern’s endless, baseless promises. A National government that lacks steel will be fatal for NZ.
        
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        December 4, 2022 6:57pm
    - Mike H S
      
      As someone who worked in AirNZ when he was CEO, I can assure you your knowledge and understanding of the individual is sadly lacking, perhaps swayed by your political leaning.
      
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      December 4, 2022 6:05pm
  - The Other Enoch
    
    Exactly. As Sun Yet Sen said, or was it Napoleon, never interfere when your enemy is making a mistake. Advice to Luxon, file these, good know there are so many, and then hammer Liebour with them from Jun23 onwards. Hammer them!
    
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    December 4, 2022 12:59pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    His standard reply should be…is that what New Zealanders really want?
    Then shut up and move on
    
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    December 4, 2022 4:14pm
- backster
  
  Re the price of sausages, yep Mum used to send me down to the butchers to buy them 1/6d a pound, saw the on special at PaknSave the other day Hellers 6pk $9 on special. Yeah I’m getting on a bit.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:17am
  - Close Hen Counters
    
    I had to be resuscitated in countdown this morning when it was explained to me there are no onions at the moment – zero onions for the first time in 52 years of being on the planet …. Lovely chap mansplained the whole sorry saga to which I replied ‘it is because of fucking Cindy’ … he asked who is Cindy 😑
    
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    December 4, 2022 12:41pm
    - Ghost
      
      Yeah. Been a shortage for a few weeks https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/130569858/onions-missing-from-shelves-as-a-tough-growing-season-creates-shortage
      
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      December 4, 2022 12:43pm
    - PaulL
      
      Onions aren’t the government’s fault. It’s the weather.
      
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      December 4, 2022 1:43pm
      - Drone
        
        But there PaulL you are incorrect, the weather is tied to climate change and the government has failed to solve that problem as well /sarc..
        
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        December 4, 2022 2:50pm
      - Gravelroad
        
        No, no, no. According to Katie Bradford, the rather glum “reporter” on 6pm TV news last night, shortages, slow delivery and supply are all to do with things going on overseas and it is not the fault of our try-hard government – at all. And totally beyond control.
        She seemed to be determinedly reading off a script and making all sorts of opinionated assertions without much evidence.
        Friend of Ms Ardern’s perhaps……
        “No matter what we do” etc.
        
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        December 4, 2022 3:56pm
      - PaulL
        
        Pretty sure all our onions are domestically produced. People from Hawkes Bay tell me that a lot of the crop rotted in the ground – too wet. Replanted now, things will be fine in a month or so.
        
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        December 4, 2022 5:35pm
      - Mike H S
        
        How about a lack of labour to pick them, PaulL?
        
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        December 4, 2022 6:09pm
      - PaulL
        
        That could be a problem. If they weren’t rotten. The current problem is that they’re rotten. If they grow properly there may be a labour shortage. But I have a suspicion that onions are one of the crops you can mechanically harvest – probably why they’re (usually) so cheap.
        
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        December 4, 2022 7:16pm
      - Ghost
        
        Yeah, same as spuds, they are mechanical harvest, but typically have a couple of people sorting as they are. It the stories are they are rotting from the weather
        
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        December 4, 2022 7:21pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      “he asked who is Cindy”
      
      Either a wokester getting uppity about her name, or one of the many sheeple with NFI of what’s going on around them!
      
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      December 4, 2022 3:57pm
- Its only I
  
  Your not the only one who thinks that Yvette.
  
  Perhaps the Lux prefers to be a passenger told where to sit down in that big old bus, not just to sit down but also shut up, speak only when spoken to and not disturb the MSN while it steers the bus around inconvenient lumps and bumps in the road between it and its undisclosed destination.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:33am
  - Paulus
    
    Perhaps it is because Luxon is a Manager and not a know all Show Pony.
    He appoints Department Managers and expects them to get on with it,
    – like running an airline perhaps where he did not tell the pilots what to do.
    
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    December 4, 2022 10:02am
    - Its only I
      
      I understand what your saying….but….he has represented himself and those departments with those different Managers during his own interviews.
      
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      December 4, 2022 11:01am
    - PaulL
      
      Perhaps. But if so, wouldn’t we see some evidence of it?
      
      If he was a superb manager who is great at forming and running a team, what would it look like? Would it look like a strong team who were independent but all going in the same direction? That strong team each holding the government to account in different areas? The leader setting out a clear vision that everyone can understand and aspire to, that the team fall in behind and pick up individual elements of?
      
      I just really don’t see it at the moment. There isn’t anyone else to change to really, but I think National will need more than this if they want a strong win.
      
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      December 4, 2022 1:46pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      At AIRNZ he was not respected as a leader…too effing woke..
      Now Rob Fyfe, there was a leader.
      
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      December 4, 2022 4:17pm
- hullkiwi
  
  Well Yvette we can start with this one as to who is going under the bus…..
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/480046/three-waters-government-announces-it-will-remove-entrenchment-clause-from-legislation
  
  Announced within the last hour, Chippie and co are winding back the entrenchment provision that was put into the 3 Waters Bill last week….
  
  Mahuta caught out yet again, and now they are having to do a back track when faced with the consequence of their political corruption!!!
  
  So, who will go under the bus?
  
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  December 4, 2022 10:01am
  - fredonas
    
    Eugenie Sage was expertly positioned as a sacrificial lamb by Labour and the self-interested indigenous activists in its ranks.
    The “privatisation concerns” red-herring argument can now just be fobbed off as something unimportant that the Greens were anxious about.
    Nothing to see here, voters, on with the 3 Waters theft and extortion coup attempt.
    
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    December 4, 2022 12:32pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    No one. Labour for 5 years has shown it sticks together.
    
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    December 4, 2022 12:34pm
    - slightlyrighty
      
      have you met Gaurav?
      
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      December 4, 2022 1:30pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Or Louisa Wall.
        McDonald is an idiot.
        
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        December 4, 2022 4:37pm
  - lemuzz
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/480046/three-waters-government-announces-it-will-remove-entrenchment-clause-from-legislation
    You can see where this is leading. Labour will say they have met voters half way by removing it from the policy so voters will now agree with 3 or 5 waters when that is not the case.
    
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    December 4, 2022 12:40pm
- Scooter
  
  Only Mahuta can throw Cindy under the bus, no one else in Labour will do it but will Mahuta use others like she did with Sage to push Cindy out.
  
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  December 4, 2022 10:21am
- Warren Murray
  
  Answer to first Q is yes
  
  How many times did Ardern lie last week? Luxon should be exploiting that! Perhaps that will come when the campaign gets underway, but the podium of truth has very sandy footings.
  
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  December 4, 2022 10:39am
- Mummy
  
  No I think Luxon is sitting back deliberately not giving them anything to have a crack at him about. Labour is self-destructing just fine all by themselves without Luxon putting the boot in and then getting torn to shreds by the media. He’s got plenty of time before the election to do that. There will probably be even more ammunition by then too.
  
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  December 4, 2022 11:38am
  - crikey
    
    Mummy: Agree. The election is a year away unless Labour decides to call an early election. Right now these are skirmishes, the real war is yet to start when National (and ACT) will fight on their terms
    
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    December 4, 2022 11:56am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      If that is correct he’s in deeper crap than it appears. Shutting up for fear of making a mistake is surrender.
      
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      December 4, 2022 12:35pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        Guess you missed the USA Presidential election when Sleepy Joe got locked in the basement pre election so he wouldnt stuff it up haha
        
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        December 4, 2022 4:21pm
    - PaulL
      
      Yes, so he shouldn’t be releasing detailed policy. But he does need to be staking out territory, and gain experience in announcing and working through things.
      
      The few things they’ve announced have all been back tracked or u-turned within a few hours. He’s shit at announcing things, and he stumbles and fumbles over the detail.
      
      If we can’t change to someone else (and I don’t think we can), then he needs to get practice so he becomes at least moderately competent at it.
      
      In reality, at the moment he looks exactly like the stale pale male who’s there because it’s his turn and not because of his distinguishing talent. That frustrates me – if we’re going to have someone with no talent, we could at least have someone electorally attractive with no talent. You know, someone likeable, maybe a minority or women. If we’re not selecting on talent then we should select on electability.
      
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      December 4, 2022 1:49pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

NZ politics are so dull in comparison.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2022/12/german-mp-ditches-wife-and-children-for-former-porn-star.html
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December 4, 2022 8:03am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  And perhaps we should be grateful for that:
  
  Senegal’s parliament brawls after MP hits woman colleague
  https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-africa-63840382
  
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  December 4, 2022 10:51am
dave_c_

Young Global Leader Jacinda Ardern has openly bragged about having access to a secret Facebook portal that allows the New Zealand government to censor content on the platform.

NZ Department of Internal Affairs NZ has received an OIA question (10 Nov 2022):

“Has the government, any division of the government, any member of the government,
or any organisation acting on behalf of the government, ever had partner access to Facebook’s takedown portal”

and the answer was:

Yes, The Department of Internal Affairs has access to Facebook’s takedown portal. Please note, we cannot advise if any other agency has access to the takedown portal.

Another back door slap in the face to all kiwis shows her complete disdain of the hoi polloi.

ref: https://newspunch.com/young-global-leader-jacinda-ardern-brags-she-has-direct-access-to-facebook-censorship-portal/
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December 4, 2022 8:03am
- Wayne Mapp
  
  This is a non story. The DIA has had this access for years, and is about defeating crime. DIA has a unit that deals with internet crime.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:02am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    You missed something Wayne. Go back and read the news post.
    Jaspinda is bragging that “she” has direct access, not just the DIA.
    Overtones that “she” can stop any comment or post that takes her whim.
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:11am
    - Ghost
      
      While the oia is legit, newspunch are not a credible news source, they have been caught many times publishing fake shit.
      
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      December 4, 2022 9:24am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        It’s legit. End of story. Why throw a smear at the source? What’s your point?
        
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        December 4, 2022 9:34am
      - Ghost
        
        If you want to take your news from a site that even the mother who financed it admits to writing fake news stories for it then go ahead, but you might as well believe in the onion as well
        
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        December 4, 2022 9:54am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Ghost – was it a true story or not?
        
        Nothing frustrates me more than when someone posts a provable fact and someone responds with “oh that’s a crap source” or words to that effect. It’s either true or it isn’t. If it isn’t then point it out and explain why with evidence.
        
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        December 4, 2022 10:18am
      - Ghost
        
        Then you should learn to read. I said while the oia is legit newspunch are not a credible news source. And if you do your own research you would find that out for yourself. Sean and his husband used to run your news wire, but changed the name after getting blocked from google etc for fake news stories. Sean’s own mother admits to writing fake stories for the site. Has Jacinda Ardern bragged about having direct access to Facebook, no, she’s never even mentioned it.
        
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        December 4, 2022 10:38am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        The truth for me is that I have never heard of ‘Newspunch’ before.
        
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        December 4, 2022 10:23am
      - Ghost
        
        A couple of years ago they were running stories of the Chinese military fighting on USA soil. Typically they take a bit of fact and throw in a lot of fiction.
        
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        December 4, 2022 10:31am
    - Surely Knott
      
      Source snobbery.
      
      Nypost is a tabloid news source filled with celebrity gossip and titillation while Ny times is high brow. Yet it was Nypost that broke the story of the hunter Biden laptop before the election , while ny times suppresses.
      
      When will the New York Times or their Nz syndicates cover the Twitter release regarding party political involvement en t in t he take down of the story.
      
      Being a high brow bougie source doesn’t equate to more truthfulness. In fact repeatedly we’ve seen it to be the opposite. Russian disinformation anyone? The truth is just the truth.
      
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      December 4, 2022 12:33pm
      - CJames
        
        I agree with you. If one goes back to the heyday of “Truth”, they broke and published many important news stories, especially about NZ politics.
        
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        December 4, 2022 4:59pm
      - PaulL
        
        The problem with dubious news sources is they probably break lots of stories. But they also publish lots of crap. That’s what happens when you don’t verify your stories.
        
        If there are 10 stories on the site, and 9 of them are made up and one is the scoop of the century, how would you know which is which? That’s not news, that’s just a rumour site.
        
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        December 4, 2022 5:40pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Is it still issued exclusively for investigating crimes, such as child pornography? Can the PM guarantee that its use will never extend to investigating “misinformation”?
    
    If the PM gives such a guarantee, then yes I agree it is a “non story”. 🙄 Oh except she lies and we can’t believe a word she says. 🤥
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:16am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      3 or more lies a day.
      
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      December 4, 2022 10:24am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Correct Wayne.
    I guess the USA voters are happy about (non) disclosure about Bidens laptop too.
    Surely Labour would not use this too their advantage as well. Open and transparent and all//
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:17am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    And Ardern is an honest and trustworthy politician who would never abuse that power……..yeah nah.
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:36am
    - mawm
      
      Clan – there is the story of the Facebook posts on Jacinda’s page regarding adverse effects of the mRNA vaccine being removed. 30 000 I seem to remember.
      
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      December 4, 2022 11:44am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Really Wayne? Wasn’t aware that this government had started using government department resources for the purpose they were intended.
    
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    December 4, 2022 10:59am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Is this the same person who has been rabbiting on about “free speech?”
  You are a fraud Jaspinda, a lying communist fraud.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:08am
Warren

Is David Parkers new Resource Management Act worth the over $800 million cost he has raked up to give New Zealander’s a fairer deal building a new home or will we get just more of the same from this tired out of their depth Government .
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December 4, 2022 8:07am
- Luke Piewalker
  
  Will be the same RMA but with added Iwi approvals. Sigh.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:01am
  - Sarkozygroupie
    
    “RMA but with added Iwi approvals. Sigh.”
    
    Think about that a little bit more slowly for a moment… and the current commensurate example of Five Waters assets being shifted by stealth to Maori.
    
    Last week I explained the implications of attempted constitutional change via The Uluṟu Statement from the Heart and the Voice to a friend in Canberra. He started off being very pro The Voice but by the end was very concerned about the road to co-governance they would be led down by Albanese (actively guided by close policy ally, Jacinda).
    
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    December 4, 2022 11:18pm
- Matt Long
  
  A bill designed by Geoffrey Palmer “improved” by David Parker, what do you think?
  National 2024; ” We passed Parker’s bills because the whips told us to, we had no clue what was in it. ”
  Also National 2025-50; “We wanted to improve and revise the Parker’s resource management legislation but we were busy with referendums on flags and anthems and reframing co-governance as Mahi Tahi, Partnership. “
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:09am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I suggest that you take 30 minutes to scan it. (It would take hours to read thoroughly.)
  
  It implements Co governance in resource management. Simple as that.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:20am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Since I bought my first home wages are up 5x and house prices are up 30+x.
  
  Entirely due to bureaucracy and regulations. Immoral and incredibly destructive but millions benefit via useless jobs and capital gains so nothing changes. Except Labour is certain to misdiagnose the problem and make it worse as they always do.
  
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  December 4, 2022 10:38am
Benedict Yu

The usual folk have a meltdown because a mayor prevented a Councillor from reciting a karakia at the Council meeting.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-democracy-reporting/300754989/race-relations-commissioner-calls-for-karakia-ban-to-be-reconsidered

I admire the French laws based on “Laïcité”, which separates private freedom of religion for individuals from the state. There are no religious practices in schools or in government.

Laïcité extends to a prohibition on French government institutions from collecting any data on the religion, ethnicity, or race about French citizens. Imagine a New Zealand with that law in place?

Of course as you would expect, the woke and the socialists have been relentless in demanding that the French change their laws. They hate the French principle of Laïcité because it cements the principle that all citizens are bound by all being “French”.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/how-french-law-makes-minorities-invisible-a7416656.html

We could have a New Zealand where we are all “New Zealanders”. All it would take is a courageous Government.
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December 4, 2022 8:08am
- alloytoo
  
  That would be something worth Entrenching.
  
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  December 4, 2022 8:11am
- Cassandra
  
  Race Relations Conciliator? Meng Foon up to his usual tricks of only favouring Maori. Apparently there’s only only one race in his New Zealand. I hope National and ACT will disestablish this useless waste of money and space.
  
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  December 4, 2022 8:17am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    ONE Race Only Relations Conciliator.
    Fixed it.
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:17am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    But it is perfectly OK to have prayers at the beginning and end of every meeting!!!
    
    Ask any Deity.
    
    Or, we could respect the separation of Church and State.
    
    This Deity finds it hugely satisfying that a bunch or “right on” socialists all bow their head in prayer to the Christian God at every meeting. Very respectful, I hope He grants them the wisdom to use the time productively…..
    
    Bwuhahahaha!
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:25am
    - rouppe
      
      I don’t believe any prayers are said at the beginning of council meetings. If they were, a karakia would be reasonable.
      
      On the assumption there are no prayers spoken, then those that want to pray, or say a karakia, or give thanks to Gaia, should do so in their own time, ahead of the council meeting.
      
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      December 4, 2022 10:16am
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        You might like to reflect on just exactly what a karakia is.
        
        https://www.otago.ac.nz/maori/world/te-reo-maori/karakia-prayers/index.html
        
        So as I said, we are now starting and ending all public meetings, and significant numbers of meetings in and with public servants with a prayer.
        
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        December 4, 2022 1:43pm
      - PaulL
        
        When a karakia ends with “amene”, then it was a prayer.
        
        Christianity is a colonial concept, but I don’t see Māori lining up to give it up. Weird that.
        
        There are some reasonably nice karakia that aren’t prayers. It would be reasonable to have a karakia at the start of meetings with a simple rule that they can’t be prayers – to any deity.
        
        Alternatively, you could randomly pick a religion and open a meeting with a prayer from them. When they get to satanism it’ll be pretty funny.
        
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        December 4, 2022 5:44pm
  - leoj
    
    Monday night lessons in te reo.
    Luxon is fully on board with maori prayers.
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:26am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    What a worse than useless meathead Foon is. I have a human right not to listen to nonsense from both him and chanting virtue signallers.
    
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    December 4, 2022 10:41am
  - Ra Henare
    
    I reckon that at the beginning of each meeting, if Maori prayer is allowed..
    
    It be followed by all councilors reciting the poem by Thomas Braken (of Dunedin) in the 1870s.
    
    Hint:
    It includes the words
    
    From dishonour and from shame,
    Guard our country’s spotless name,
    Crown her with immortal fame,
    
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    December 4, 2022 4:32pm
- Nigel Kearney
  
  I don’t know why National doesn’t do it. I don’t even think it requires courage. It would be very popular and the people who complained would never have voted National anyway.
  
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  December 4, 2022 8:19am
  - kowtow
    
    The National Elites are donkey deep in race politics.
    
    Their “brightest” legal minds opened a huge can of worms with co governance . Perpetual top ups for certain tribes .Etc.
    
    Might start small but ends up bigly , like now.
    
    Our democratic principles have been compromised . For what .
    
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    December 4, 2022 8:28am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Exactly. Chris Finlayson derided anyone who objected to Te Urewera National Park being given away. Once all the huts have been destroyed, the hunters and conservationists will stay away and it will be over run by pests.
      
      Thanks a bunch.
      
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      December 4, 2022 9:25am
      - rouppe
        
        And the huts are still being burned despite a court order to halt the destruction.
        
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        December 4, 2022 10:18am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Tuhoe Guerillas are ‘pests?’ Tama Iti is.
        
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        December 4, 2022 10:51am
      - kiwikidsnz
        
        Yep, in a Treaty settlement to a tribe who refused to sign the Treaty
        
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        December 4, 2022 5:19pm
  - RalphT
    
    Yes, and as it sounds vaguely constitutional National should entrench the prohibition on collecting such data…
    
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    December 4, 2022 8:32am
- Yvette
  
  Benedict Yu We could have a New Zealand where we are all “New Zealanders”
  
  laïcité – principe de séparation de la société civile et de la société religieuse.
  principle of separation of civil society and religious society – viva la France
  
  So the fuss is over whether a city council meeting should start with a minority ethnic group’s prayer.
  Do police days or work start with a karakia?
  Ambulance drivers, or nurse, doctors days – where a prayer of any sort could psychologically help?
  or schools?
  
  Yes! – schools, I am informed, do – primary schools classes do start the day with a karakia
  Indoctrination of the youngest? Where does that leave this matter?
  
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  December 4, 2022 8:23am
  - rockape
    
    They tried to bring it into hospitals and it didn’t go down well.
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:12am
  - pdm
    
    When I was at High School (a state school) from 1960-1964 we concluded most if not all assemblies with The Lords Prayer and and singing God Save The Queen.
    
    Never did anyone any harm and no one objected.
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:18am
    - NothingLeft
      
      It would have pissed off some for sure, I was an atheist before 10yr old. And religious incantations are universally a useless waste of time. 2 hand working achieve more than 1000 clasped on prayer.
      
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      December 4, 2022 9:48am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Sure, and we had to kneel during Prayers too.
      But none of that happened in Academia or in the Public Service.
      It does now.
      
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      December 4, 2022 9:49am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        Were you born without a backbone?
        
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        December 4, 2022 12:38pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      New Zealand was a different society. I would be totally opposed to school kids being made to pray in the name of any religion.
      
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      December 4, 2022 9:55am
    - JJ56
      
      FWIW we had religious instruction, but your parents could keep you out.
      
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      December 4, 2022 10:05am
    - surfing
      
      You might think mixing state and religion does no harm, if you ignore history.
      
      I object to the sky howlers forcing others to sing or listen to their beliefs. Religion is an invention for the soft minded to wield power over those more capable!
      
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      December 4, 2022 10:54am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2022/11/has-labour-become-co-governed-party.html
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:20am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Say a ‘karakia’ before you go outside and mow the lawns?
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:20am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Blessing the lawnmower is known to make it start easier and cut tighter!
      
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      December 4, 2022 9:27am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        My experience is if it won’t start it gets a boot in the petrol tank, and go buy a new one.
        
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        December 4, 2022 10:55am
- Nickc2
  
  A Nat/Act Govt should put such a concept to a referendum. When it gets up, which it will, enact such a law and Entrench it. IMO, that’ll bring NZ back to being a harmonious multicultural society and its citizens should live happily ever after (give or take a few little Maori uprisings and hissy fits to begin with).
  
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  December 4, 2022 8:27am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Makes sense. I will go with that.
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:21am
- Mike H S
  
  I looked up the Kaipara District Council and found that she was not elected but appointed as one of the chosen special people.
  
  It just goes to show what an absolute mess this maorification could end up being.
  
  Totally agree with the separation of religion etc from Government.
  
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  December 4, 2022 8:35am
  - Nickc2
    
    Mallard removed all references to ‘Jesus’ from the Parliamentary Prayer.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/31/anger-as-jesus-reference-removed-from-new-zealand-parliamentary-prayer
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:15am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Fortunately He snuck back in during the karakia!
      
      Indeed, He moves in mysterious ways
      
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      December 4, 2022 9:27am
  - leoj
    
    Yet another reason that racist maori wards need to be abandoned.
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:30am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Not elected?
    Well that throws new light on the 3 Waters and Co-Governance.
    http://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:42am
  - Steve Todd
    
    @Mike H S @ 8:35AM
    
    I looked up the Kaipara District Council and found that she was not elected but appointed as one of the chosen special people.
    
    That is quite incorrect.
    
    Pera Paniora was one of five candidates in the Te Moananui o Kaipara Māori Ward. At the fourth iteration, she attained an absolute majority of the 461 votes remaining in the election (231), with 246 votes.
    
    She was officially declared to be elected by the electoral officer, Dale Ofsoske, on Friday 14 October.
    
    (See https://www.kaipara.govt.nz/uploads/elections/Final elections results detailed.pdf.)
    
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    December 4, 2022 10:08am
    - Steve Todd
      
      Sorry. Try this link: https://www.kaipara.govt.nz/uploads/elections/Final%20elections%20results%20detailed.pdf.
      
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      December 4, 2022 10:24am
    - surfing
      
      You are quite incorrect.
      
      Voters were forced to appoint a maori. Which one is unimportant.
      
      Imagine if we said mayors could only be of white skin!
      
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      December 4, 2022 10:57am
      - Steve Todd
        
        You are quite incorrect.
        
        No, I am not. Voters were forced to elect a separate Māori representative. Mike H S clearly implied that Paniora was appointed by council, rather than elected by those on the Māori roll.
        
        I am on record here, over several years, as being an opponent of separate Māori wards. It is well-known that I advocate the election of local councillors city- or district-wide, by STV.
        
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        December 4, 2022 12:13pm
    - Cassandra
      
      She’s there to represent just one race, Maori – the rest of the council are there for all. Maori wards are a racist disgrace.
      
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      December 4, 2022 11:01am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It’s looking like the 5 candidates for : Te Moananui o Kaipara Māori Ward were appointed. Pena Paniora won the vote out of those 5.
    
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    December 4, 2022 1:42pm
- CJames
  
  I have to say that I avoid attending functions where there is a karakia. If I can’t get out of it, I just come in late. There is no state religion and we don’t say prayers, so a speech said in a language I don’t understand with no translation has no meaning. Invariably I am told by friends that do understand and speak Maori that I haven’t missed anything.
  I go to tangi where speeches are said in Maori, but invariably there, the speaker offers an English synopsis. They are different. I am there to honour the dead, not do work.
  
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  December 4, 2022 8:52am
  - Cassandra
    
    Not invariably unfortunately. I attended a marae funeral when almost all of the eulogies (I’m assuming that’s what they were) were in Maori and not translated. The deceased was a European and the widow, English born, looked bewildered, as were 90% of the mourners. The deceased must have agreed to a marae funeral. Extraordinary experience. We didn’t even get a chance to speak to the widow who sat at the entrance to the meeting house and was whisked away with the coffin at the end of the service. Put me off forever.
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:03am
    - Frank Thomas
      
      Unfortunately the deceased has no say in what happens after they die. If you are Mãori, the tribe decides. Remember the drama of what happened to Billy T James? After he passed away, his partner had planned a funeral in Auckland only for his body to be hijacked by a group of Tainui thugs and taken to his ancestral Marae in the Waikato, if I remember correctly.
      
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      December 4, 2022 9:26am
      - PaulL
        
        It’s seen as a sign of respect. The bigger the fight over the body, the more important the person.
        
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        December 4, 2022 5:48pm
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    I guess you avoid all official functions, including virtually everything in the education sector. A greeting or karakia in te reo has been used for virtually all official functions for well over a decade.
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:05am
    - Matt Long
      
      And people say the Key government didn’t achieve anything of substance, some people have no sense of proportion do they?
      
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      December 4, 2022 9:13am
    - septic skeptic
      
      Good to hear our world class education system is bedded in and functioning as intended.
      
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      December 4, 2022 9:14am
    - Bob
      
      used for virtually all official functions for well over a decade…..
      Wayne! that doesn’t make it universally acceptable to the majority. It is force feed indoctrination, that we tolerate; something – tolerance- which is sadly lacking among the leaders of the ‘special privileged people’.
      
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      December 4, 2022 9:17am
      - JeffW
        
        Well said
        
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        December 4, 2022 9:49am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Key words, “force fed indoctrination”
        It is everywhere, news, google search, maps, supermarkets, HOSPITALS, ALL GOVT DEPARTMENTS, monthly invoices/bills (power, rates, water, etc) Doctor Medical Centers.
        
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        December 4, 2022 11:15am
    - Nukuleka
      
      Oh, into the naughty seat with you CJ James. Uncle Wayne (‘everyone in my suburb drives a Tesla’) is not happy with you expressing your opinion. Naughty lad that you are.
      
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      December 4, 2022 9:17am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      And here is Wayne again to explain to the Proles why they are wrong.
      
      So on the point of principle, Wayne approves of compulsory Christian prayer at the start of every meeting.
      
      Good oh!
      
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      December 4, 2022 9:30am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      You are missing the point. Of course I am aware of that. Public servants are forced to utter Maori incantations before team meetings. I have seen it. And they are indeed forced. I am suggesting that should be prohibited, as it would be in France.
      
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      December 4, 2022 9:31am
    - leoj
      
      Misplaced symbolism that is understood by about 1% of the population.
      Maori is being force-fed on to us for no good reason.
      Voluntary – absolutely.
      Compulsory – expect push back.
      We have had a gutsful of it.
      
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      December 4, 2022 9:35am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Wayne Mapp – they are creating racism and division. It will not end well for this country. Any “blending” will happen organically, the more it is forced, the more division it will cause. The anger is already palpable.
      
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      December 4, 2022 9:52am
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      Hasn’t the world got enough trouble from religious fuckwits?
      
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      December 4, 2022 10:45am
    - surfing
      
      It is absolute rubbish and must be stopped.
      
      There is no place for mixing religion and state.
      
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      December 4, 2022 11:00am
      - Nickc2
        
        There is no place for mixing religion and state.
        I totally agree.
        A karakia (which were often chanted or ‘sung’), calls call upon many of our Atua (Deities/guardians) for direction; these karakia are poetic and full of beautiful imagery and metaphor.
        https://www.taiuru.maori.nz/karakia-or-cultural-appropriation/
        This is Paganism (a religion other than one of the main world religions, specifically a non-Christian or pre-Christian religion)
        Do you want to pay homage to Pagan things at the drop of a hat?
        
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        December 4, 2022 11:18am
      - PaulL
        
        A large proportion of karakia are simply Christian prayers that have been translated.
        
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        December 4, 2022 5:49pm
    - CJames
      
      Yes Wayne, I avoid all government functions and have done for years. If it isn’t directly for my work, I don’t attend. To be fair, I also don’t go to awards ceremonies where one has to wear a suit and tie (which I don’t own). I’ve got others to accept stuff on my behalf if need be.
      When I attended my youngest daughter’s 7th form prizegiving about 6 years ago – there was nothing in Maori apart from a few words in the welcome. This was a school maybe 10-15% Maori. For her graduation, I just went in after all the tedious opening ceremony was over. There were many milling around outside with the same idea. I think the organisers were fuming at our silent protest behaviour.
      
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      December 4, 2022 12:39pm
    - Brian McDonald
      
      It’s interesting aspect that everyone on KB appears to know more about the functions of Government than a person who was directly involved at a high level. That’s actually a complete reflection on KB.
      
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      December 4, 2022 12:41pm
      - CJames
        
        Brian That is correct. As has been shown numerous times over the last five years, the government and senior bureaucrats do not know what they are doing. The naive student politician syndrome. Senior people in government departments, quangos and the like are there because of their wokeness, ancestry or sex, not because of their competence. So they make either inept decisions, or more often than not, no decision at all. And it tars all those of similar characteristics who got there by merit.
        I can’t speak for all the other commenters, but many here have shown their competence or skills in their careers. That is why they have professional membership of various bodies like engineering or accountancy or the like. You don’t get that recognition because of who you great grandfather was. How many bureaucrats are practicing lawyers, chartered engineers or chartered accountants?
        
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        December 4, 2022 1:31pm
      - JJ56
        
        Wayne is talking about what happened over the last decade, a period when he was no longer in Parliament.
        
        I can assure him and others here that what is being discussed here didn’t become common place until after Labour took power in 2017. You can easily test this by looking at the government publications before and after that date. The dominance of climate change is another example.
        
        So what is being seen is a manifestation of Party politics and is naturally growler bait for the locals.
        
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        December 4, 2022 7:23pm
    - CJames
      
      Wayne. You know enough history to know why the Prodestant Reformation happened. The Catholic Church decided that the Bible and Papal decrees should be in Latin and not in the vernacular. Only clerics were taught the language. That meant only the priestly class would determine what the words meant and how they were interpreted. Any attempt by non-clerics to translate were severely punished.
      Now what is the difference between that and judicial activism or the sprinkling of Maori words into legislation?
      
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      December 4, 2022 1:39pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    At the Kaipara Council meeting, one person got up and walked out when the Maori nonsense started. He came back in after Jepson ruled no karakia.
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:46am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Jepson is the ‘voted for’ Mayor. He calls the shots.
  He is either the Mayor, or he is not the Mayor.
  Enough bullshit from the special people.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:16am
- Frank Thomas
  
  Unfortunately National wouldn’t want to go there as the usual suspects would come out screaming “Racism!!” with protests and marches complaining how their rights under the ToW have been trampled on by the nasty Racist government. Too much grief for Luxon even though it is just a part of how a supposedly marginalised section of society is increasingly getting more and more power at the expense of the majority.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:16am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    Correct. Labour is just waiting for such utterances from Luxon so the Nats can be branded as Alt-Right.
    
    Better to just let Labour brand itself as Far Left.
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:22am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      A smart government would not go full on with a referendum on DAY 1. The PM could call in every CE and say quietly “stop it”. The public service commissioner would issue guidance about when karakia and Maori language is appropriate.
      
      Wind it back. Change the culture. Campaign on three referendums in Term 2.
      
      One on banning all religion and mythology in government.
      
      One on entrenching democracy.
      
      One on banning the collection of data on ethnicity, race and religion.
      
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      December 4, 2022 9:37am
  - artemisia
    
    I think a government with other priorities might take a softly softly approach rather than a big bold policy that would attract endless media attention. And not in a good way.
    
    Softly softly – follow the money and plan a quiet “review” of outcomes and taxpayer funding. Cost of living crisis a perfick opportunity.
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:29am
    - septic skeptic
      
      The central issue is whether we have a democracy or a form of apartheid where Maori have 50% say by right of ancestry and then a proportional say in the remaining 50% by right of democracy. National can tinker around the edges quietly rolling back some of the excesses if you like. But if they don’t tackle the central issue head on and win over the country, within a couple of cycles of government there will be a Maori upper house. Then this system will be bedded in so deep it will take a revolution to reinstate democracy.
      
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      December 4, 2022 10:39am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Perfick – yes Pop.
      
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      December 4, 2022 11:20am
- MCōs
  
  Let’s see if the council has a Christmas party or schedules a meeting for Good Friday?
  Do they put money into any Christmas parades?
  
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  December 4, 2022 12:59pm
Master Mariner

A video regarding the closure of Marsden Point from a workers view of events and the costs associated with its closure.

Well worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0QUor5H92w&t=3469s
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December 4, 2022 8:10am
- Master Mariner
  
  And another Gem,
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TkCb0Z1ouY
  NEW ZEALAND HAS THE LONGEST SUPPLY LINES IN THE WORLD AND TO SCUTTLE SUCH A VITAL STRATEGIC ASSET AS OUR ONLY OIL REFINERY IS A MOVE THAT COULD BE CONSTRUED AS AN ACT OF AGGRESSION OR EVEN TREASONOUS AGAINST THE PEOPLE OF NEW ZEALAND.”
  Unquote,
  Yep, Could not agree more.
  “
  
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  December 4, 2022 8:21am
  - Gerrit
    
    Irrespective if Marsden Point is open or not, that pipeline has to carry either finished or crude oil. The lengthy pipeline has always been there. Not advocating for the closure, just reminding that we have to use the metaphorical pipeline irrespective of what flows down it.
    
    The same reason that China and Japan import whole logs from New Zealand (to better utilise the resource in their market) should apply to Marsden Point. To better utilise the crude oil import.
    
    The pipeline length is a straw man argument. You need it either with or without an operational Marsden Point refinery.
    
    An argument could be made that the pipeline could be shorter if refined oil products were bough in from a closer refinery than the crude oil distribution point.
    
    A similar argument has been and is raging in Australia. New Zealand would be better to sling its hook with the Australians and draw refined oil products from their imports using New Zealand trans Tasman tankers. A very short pipeline.
    
    https://www.fuelsandlubes.com/fli-article/the-end-of-oil-refining-in-australia/
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:29am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Yep as Refineries are closing ( Except Asia) Worldwide due to ESG accounting from Oil Majors,
      However from your Link this holds true,
      
      “The government lauded the fuel security package as a vital ingredient in Australia’s recovery from the Covid-19 pandemic and to prepare against future crises. “Shoring up our fuel security means protecting 1,250 jobs, giving certainty to key industries, and bolstering our national security,”
      
      Our Energy security is what ?
      
      What’s the End Game ?
      
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      December 4, 2022 10:17am
      - Gerrit
        
        End game is the total devolution of oil based transport imports. Electric all the way.
        
        Not that is in the least bit feasible but ideology trumps common sense.
        
        Energy security is a false notion. We will never achieve that unless we are 100% oil imports free. But ideology also prevents us from extracting and refining what is in the ground locally so will never achieve that status. So always somewhat liable in regards energy security.
        
        Oil refiners are consolidating. Why have the costs of refining spread over many world wide sites when a cheaper super site can do all the refining and with the transport costs loaded onto the consumer. Win Win Win if a refiner.
        
        With EV’s hitting an uptake wall (when the cohort that can afford them has purchased), the state has a problem in regards oil imports. Why?
        
        It all depends on the price of a EV. if you visit south or west Auckland car yards, they meet the demo-graphical market they serve with cars valued between $5K to $20K. Usually Japanese imports. It is what people can afford.
        
        They are also heavily stocked with people movers (7 seaters) as families are larger (extended with grand parents and grand children).
        
        Until EV’s hit this demo-graphical need. They wont find a way into the west or south Auckland market (or any poorer area of New Zealand).
        
        The trickle down of used Nissan Leafs do not cut the mustard. Too small and in used condition restricted in range for what the poor use the car for. Nor will home charging be of any use where a crowded housing situation (very common for the poor) may have three or four vehicles to charge. Blow a few fuses?
        
        Wait till the road user charges start being applied and the cost to monitor and collect are added to the cost of running an EV. Another huge kettle of fish for the state trying to get the poor into EV’s.
        
        Hence we will continue to need to import refined oil for private (and public) transport, farming and construction use.
        
        The fact it comes from a super refinery in Indonesia or is important from storage tanks in Australia makes no difference.
        
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        December 4, 2022 11:25am
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        Reliance on Singapore, Indonesia or even Australia for vital energy independence isn’t clever.
        
        We are a small contract and a small volume, why would NZ be a priority for anybody else when the chips are down.
        
        Energy independence used to be a policy objective. Most countries are quite keen on energy policy, and on energy reserves in the case of emergency.
        
        In NZ, we just hope people will be nice to us. Well hope is not a great strategy, historically speaking.
        
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        December 4, 2022 6:40pm
- surfing
  
  Every New Zealander including school children should be watching this … really need to hear from those in the industry as opposed to politicians to fill in your knowledge.
  
  So now we end up with all the crap petroleum product that no one else will buy.
  
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  December 4, 2022 1:06pm
artemisia

Māori and Pacific academics at Auckland University of Technology concerned about impact of job cuts

A strange article in the Herald. Some staff at AUT are “extremely upset” at cuts proposed, “driven by a decrease in international student enrolments, rising inflation and neighbouring economic pressures”.

What did they think would happen? Maybe they believe they have a job for life, whether there is demand for their services or not. Because the taxpayer will pay up for them to play on social media and do their nails. And do they have any idea what is happening in other sectors.

There is some particular angst about possible staff reductions among Maori and Pasifika, which between them make up a tiny proportion of staff, a proportion that is proposed to be retained.

One anonymous academic is quoted as saying – “Damon talks about that tika, pono and aroha (justice, truth and love) but I was speaking with a Māori academic, and she said that Māori [at AUT] have put a rāhui (prohibition) on those words because it is not being fulfilled at AUT.”

“Entitlement” comes to mind. Not to worry though, the 200+ who might lose jobs will find there are plenty of vacancies out there.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/maori-and-pacific-academics-at-auckland-university-of-technology-concerned-about-impact-of-job-cuts/7MULGVETTJAPRICZMM55T57NRI/
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December 4, 2022 8:11am
- CJames
  
  If you look at the courses cut, very few would ever lead to a career, except as an academic. Maybe reality is starting to bite.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:00am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    So basket weaving is out?
    
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    December 4, 2022 11:40am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Nope. Under water bssket weaving still a go //
      
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      December 4, 2022 1:04pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  This Deity is in full support of a Rahui on firing unemployable polytechnic lecturers.
  
  Just because there are no students to teach, no money and nothing to do, should not get in the way of the important mahi these people do!
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:33am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Did any of these folk sympathise with the thousands who lost their jobs as a result of the lockdowns and mandates?
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:41am
  - rouppe
    
    Out of sight, out of mind, Benedict.
    
    None of them have people affected in such a way within the circles in which they run.
    
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    December 4, 2022 10:29am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Or businesses folding and will never start again?
    
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    December 4, 2022 11:43am
- Swifty
  
  What about justice, truth and love for the hard-pressed tax-paying New Zealand families who are forced to pay for these elites?
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:56am
- PeeJay
  
  Got to wonder if the house of cards that is the tertiary education sector is starting to look a little precarious.
  
  Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, the whole sector is effectively supported by foreign students paying high course fees. When I did my Masters, I knew a couple of the senior staff and they were always off on recruitment trips, primarily to India and China. A pathway to residency was always part of the marketing in these recruitment trips – never in writing, more of a nudge-nudge approach I was told. Always caused a huge issue academically – a lot (not all but a high proportion) of the foreign students were really sub-par but somehow always seemed to miraculously pass – total coincidence that they were effectively subsidising the university!
  
  With international student numbers staying low and immigration being a clusterfuck, I guess it’s no wonder that the sectors foundations are starting to look less than stable.
  
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  December 4, 2022 10:06am
  - 7kiwi11
    
    I could never fathom how students who can barely speak English manage to get pass marks on academic writing assignments.
    
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    December 4, 2022 10:24am
    - PeeJay
      
      I got on really well with the course leader for my Masters degree. He had some really great stories about the inner workings of universities in this day and age – assured me that this wasn’t just an NZ issue either as his colleagues in Australia, UK USA and Canada all had similar issues. One such story was on marking students who clearly shouldn’t have been admitted – poor English, no ability but paying a shit load in fees. If he ever failed one of these students, his teaching was at fault and he would be put under investigation (think it was called a review) – he would have to show that he went over and above to get the failing student on track. The fact the student shouldn’t have been admitted and wasn’t good enough was ignored in these kangaroo courts – the lecturer was solely to blame. After a few of these ‘review meetings’ he would eventually get the message and pass the student – never more than 50% as this was his two-fingers to the system. And he told me this happened all the time.
      
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      December 4, 2022 10:57am
      - Flossie
        
        Family member was a tradie in the forces and due to being able to speak a particular foreign language he was put in charge of persons from a foreign country’s forces. He was told unequivocally that these three persons were to pass the trade course. Or else.
        
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        December 4, 2022 1:41pm
    - Sol Invictus
      
      I once lectured on an OB course on a New Zealand MBA programme where all the students were from mainland China. When I tried to fail them all (because none of them met even the most minimum of standards required) I was in serious trouble!
      
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      December 4, 2022 2:04pm
      - PaulL
        
        Chinese students coming to NZ universities are students with problems. The favoured sons go to US universities. NZ universities don’t have a good reputation internationally, but they’re relatively affordable and a great place to part a less favoured son or daughter, perhaps one with mental health issues or behavioural or learning difficulties. Even better if they pass.
        
        Better yet, they can buy a house (hide assets from the Chinese govt), and if they do pass they can get a job and therefore residency.
        
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        December 4, 2022 5:56pm
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        Same. They paid for that education, and the university will provide them with a certificate.
        
        As PaulL has commented. We aren’t getting their best and brightest. We are getting their troubled kids, with a suitcase full of cash and a new Toyota Supra. These are kids who would be off to jail back home, and bring shame on their familes. Letting off steam in NZ is risk free.
        
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        December 4, 2022 6:43pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Job cuts should be based on keeping the best employees to do the job, and dismissals starting at the bottom of the most useless.
  No way should the process be influenced by a ratio of Maori/ Pasifika.
  
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  December 4, 2022 11:38am
  - david
    
    But Steve, we are now going back to the bad old days. Remember when the unions ran the ship and it was always Last on: First off, with the hardened ex poms entrenched in their sinecures as the least productive residents of Godzone.
    
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    December 4, 2022 4:07pm
  - PaulL
    
    I can sort that for you Steve. I’ll just make cultural competency one of the key performance criteria. Best employees are now those with cultural competency.
    
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    December 4, 2022 5:56pm
O C Smith

Good Morning All
There is pretty much agreement on this site that the MSM has failed its duty to provide balanced news and editorial content. So how much internet time do you spend to obtain your best version of the TRUTH??
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December 4, 2022 8:11am
- Nickc2
  
  About 40% of an 8-hour day of retirement.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:05am
- Gravelroad
  
  @O C,
  It doesn’t matter how much internet time I spend to obtain the truth.
  I don’t know what the truth is anymore.
  That is what the Labour government, their partners and supporters have offered up to New Zealand – lies, obfuscation and disrespect for the citizen voter.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:13am
  - Matt Long
    
    There’s a short hand, if the leftists or tabloid trash say or promote it, most likely false, otherwise truth is hard to find.
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:30am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Being fully retired now, I spend a lot of time on overseas sites. Australian, American, and English.
  New Zealand News? What is that?
  
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  December 4, 2022 11:48am
- MCōs
  
  The truth is what you want it to be.
  
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  December 4, 2022 4:04pm
krazykiwi

Florida pulls $2b out of BlackRock, the biggest such divestment by a state opposed to the asset manager’s environmental, social and corporate governance (ESG) policies.
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December 4, 2022 8:13am
- alloytoo
  
  Another law worth entrenching.
  
  A prohibition on policies which seek to override to undermine the statutory obligations laid out in Sovereign NZ law.
  
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  December 4, 2022 8:17am
- Master Mariner
  
  Yep. Interesting. Not the only one either. Reason ESG investing.
  Who is the biggest proponent of ESG is Larry Fink.
  Who did our PM meet at BR.
  Also on board of Directors of WEF.
  One thing about working in NZ and compulsary Kiwisaver is ESG investing.
  I believe if i want to invest in cluster bombs I bloody well should be able too!
  Get ESG out of the Reserve Bank and Government.
  Scorched Earth Policy from the Nutters Club ( WEF).
  
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  December 4, 2022 8:49am
  - PaulL
    
    Simple rule. In a world of (mostly) perfect markets, then if a decent proportion of people are choosing to not invest in a certain sector or company for philosophical reasons, then logically that sector or company will be offering higher returns.
    
    Well, if I’m being strictly accurate, either people choosing not to invest makes no difference at all (because it doesn’t impact the share price – there are still plenty of people who want to invest), or it depresses the share price, thereby making that company a better investment.
    
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    December 4, 2022 5:59pm
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      I am actively seeking a company that only invests in armaments, oil, tobacco and alcohol. Hopefully it will make nearly the return that big pharma has.
      
      I regard myself as an ethical investor!
      
      Bwuhahahaha!
      
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      December 4, 2022 6:45pm
- Master Mariner
  
  https://decrypt.co/116145/blackrock-ceo-says-next-generationmarkets-is-tokenization
  What could really go wrong//
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:05am
- Aquarius
  
  And in NZ……
  The Government owns over 50% of Genesis
  But the NZSF won’t invest in it
  Go figure…….
  
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  December 4, 2022 6:35pm
  - JJ56
    
    While Meridian is investing in hydrogen no doubt following its Masters’ Voice, and the wise money should be exiting.
    
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    December 4, 2022 7:30pm
crikey

BY: In our dreams, but I admire the French for it. We are all New Zealanders, built on the collective efforts of all of us.
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December 4, 2022 8:14am
alloytoo

Yesterday Elon Musk released data which indicated that Twitter was an active participant in skewing the 2020 Presidental election.

The big question here is did Twitter employees interfere in any other elections around the world?
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December 4, 2022 8:14am
- All_on_Red
  
  Twitter is over 80% American so probably not.
  Mind you the EU is casting its censorious eye over ‘new’ Twitter. Probably because they are afraid people might get to speak the truth and worse, others will read it.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:57am
- Master Mariner
  
  I personally think you would be Naive not too think this, Especially here.
  Think of all the Big Tech ( Data Centres) etc.
  I really do not understand it but I believe AI and Algorythms have a major impact on NZ reporting, Social or otherwise.
  https://seemorerocks.is/new-zealand-is-a-pilot-for-the-world-economic-forums-ai-project/
  “DID YOU KNOW NZ IS A LEADER IN GOVERNMENTAL USE OF AI?… THERE’S BEEN A CALL FOR AN INDEPENDENT REGULATOR HERE TO MONITOR & ADDRESS THE ASSOCIATED RISKS OF THE TECH?”
  
  Wonder why NEWS and Media outlets are getting there Information ( Instructions).
  
  You would have too be very Naive , Not too believe Media , Especially social media are interfering in elections.
  
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  December 4, 2022 11:24am
  - PaulL
    
    I understand AI and algorithms reasonably well.
    
    AI is mostly junk these days, other than a few very specific uses. But most IT departments are busily relabelling things they were already doing like rules engines as “AI” so that their managers think they’re doing sexy stuff. A large part of the growth in AI is just reclassifying things to be trendy or sell your business case to the board.
    
    At one point I wanted to violate the privacy of our web users (well, not really). For a bunch of govt reasons I needed to know the demographics of our users – gender, ethnicity, age. According to internet knowledge nothing is private, so I asked the team to use web information to get me the user location, age, ethnicity. No go. Virtually impossible to do. I was so disappointed. Basically the only way to get that info is either a) they share it with you by logging in with facebook or something, or b) they actively give it to you (pop up a request for them to tell you).
    
    Another time I wanted to use AI to respond to our users. A chat bot. They really are dreadful. I went to a Genesys conference (contact centre tech), and one of the speakers put it in a way that resonated with me. A lot of AI isn’t based on carefully building rules and information. It’s based on feeding a computer thousands and thousands of customer interactions, and it learns to mimic them. His point was that most companies aspire to excellent customer service. But if you are teaching your AI using thousands of interactions, and it’s learning to mimic….you’re explicitly teaching it to be average. It learns that “when people ask a question sort of like this, the answer is sort of like that”. Even worse, it’s not actually learning at all – it knows nothing about what is being asked or what it means. It just knows that when it gets a string of characters that look like this, then this thing over here is an appropriate response. It doesn’t know what the characters mean or what the response means. It can’t generalise.
    
    The prospects for our future AI overlord are pretty dim at the moment.
    
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    December 4, 2022 6:06pm
- mawm
  
  alloytoo – Musk has hinted that there was Twitter interference in the Brazilian elections.
  
  I guess he has to be very cautious as to what he releases for the lawsuits are bound to follow…. as is the loss of Federal funding he receives for SpaceX and Tesla.
  
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  December 4, 2022 11:56am
Toes on the nose

Dumb honky court-laws don’t mean Shet. Another hut has been burnt down post injunction. Kiwi, kokako and whio gone from uewera within 5 years. I will enjoy my memories but steer well clear from now on…honky not welcome. Chur co-gov
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December 4, 2022 8:21am
- Nickc2
  
  Tuhoi Malitia training grounds! You’d have to be mad to go there now. Another No-Go area to be added to NZ tourist maps.
  
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  December 4, 2022 11:45am
dave_c_

We have a son who works in ministry of xxxxx, who indicates that at the start of any meeting they attend, there is a mandatory protracted speel in Maori . . .
Go figure how any of this claptrap enhances the reason the meeting/s are called, especially if 90+ percent of the attendees do not understand a word that is being said. Ofttimes not one maori in attendance.
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December 4, 2022 8:21am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Are the people supplying the speeches paid?
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:03am
  - Bob
    
    naturally !! why would they get out of bed in the morning otherwise.
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:20am
- Benedict Yu
  
  No 100 percent of those attending. They are given cards to read or they rote learn the Maori words. I have seen it dozens of times, mainly via zoom. The people doing this reveal their discomfort by their facial expressions. They are forced to participate in a religious ceremony.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:44am
  - kowtow
    
    The Maoists called them “struggle sessions” during their Cultural Revolution .
    
    And as we’ve already been told there’ll be Red Guards keeping special watch for any Running Dog colonial lackies who’re not showing the required enthusiasms and will have their future prospects endangered.
    
    It has to be stopped. Called out , ridiculed even.
    
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    December 4, 2022 10:15am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Agree. Arresting “climate deniers” is only a matter of time. People using pickup trucks for “unauthorised purposes”.
      
      Already public servants have “climate budgets”. How long before we all have “climate budgets”. Sorry you can’t fly to Sydney. Your climate budget has run out.
      
      Really think that could not happen in New Zealand given another term of this government?
      
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      December 4, 2022 11:42am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Labour & Green Ministers will not, of course, be subject to a climate budget. Their work is Atua’s work.
        
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        December 4, 2022 5:22pm
  - PeeJay
    
    One of my old work colleagues has found an interesting way round this – he claimed religious discrimination under the Bill of Rights. After numerous discussions with HR, some veiled threats and being branded a racist, he’s still there. He’s been denied promotions and they’ve tried to get rid of him but they’ve given up and just leave him alone now. Definitely got a mark on his HR file though. All because he refused to go along with bullshit.
    
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    December 4, 2022 10:27am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      They can’t get rid of him but his career will be finished.
      
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      December 4, 2022 11:43am
    - NothingLeft
      
      HR are almost universally intolerant toxic wokesters – almost all female arts grads with a chip on their shoulder. If you want to improve an organisation’s productivity and actual diversity and culture they should be pared back to the absolute minimum (and govt should remove all legislation that requires their existence).
      
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      December 4, 2022 12:19pm
vant

What do you think about the practice of sending school teachers a “thank you” present in the form of a prezzy card worth several hundred dollars? It’s very common in Wellington.
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December 4, 2022 8:23am
- James Stephenson
  
  If it’s like the school where a couple of my friends work, such things are paid for by the school and approved by the BoT. Have you noticed there’s a teacher shortage? What else does a Principal have at their disposal to stop staff looking elsewhere?
  
  My last job in the UK used to give everyone in the sales team a Christmas hamper…
  
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  December 4, 2022 10:04am
  - PaulL
    
    Giving people pay rises doesn’t work. Effective marginal tax rates means you’re just giving the money to the government.
    
    Prezzie cards and the like are a great way around marginal tax rates. Staff feel like you care, and it’s real money in their pocket, unlike a pay rise.
    
    Sad state of affairs, but there it is.
    
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    December 4, 2022 6:17pm
kiwikidsnz

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/indonesia-set-to-penalise-sex-outside-marriage-in-overhaul-of-criminal-code

Also applies to foreigners.

Is it still ok to hate these people who assume these medieval powers over others.
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December 4, 2022 8:28am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Someone on YSB mentioned that this new law in Indonesia could prevent some world leaders from visiting Indonesia, including our own PM.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:08am
  - rouppe
    
    Only if they have sex. Won’t be a problem for Jacinda to spend more of your money on an adjoining hotel room for appearances
    
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    December 4, 2022 10:50am
    - david
      
      Having babies is a bit of a giveaway rouppe, although there are some who believe in the Virgin Birth and that our PM is actually the second coming. It might be a bit hard to sanctify the first bloke though in the same way that Joseph is regarded.
      
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      December 4, 2022 4:15pm
      - PaulL
        
        Presumably you’re allowed to have sex outside Indonesia. Just not in Indonesia.
        
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        December 4, 2022 6:18pm
Pineapple Lumps

Herald’s “Build Back Better” series runs superficial analysis of why NZers feel society is more divided now.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/divided-nz-exclusive-poll-reveals-how-divided-we-feel-and-what-we-agree-on/UUZISO7IZFCF5DAG5G77E7MHGU/

Just like the Heralds “Target 90% vaccination level” they are again moving from reporting to pushing outcomes. When did it become acceptable for them to push WEF policy ie Build Back Better?

The analysis of divisiveness is woeful, only asking questions on four points:
1. Covid
2. Housing
3. Distribution of wealth
4. Farming based economy

Where are the questions about:
– the loss of an independent media
– the driving of a communist agenda
– the driving of racial division
– the leadership of the labour government
– the loss of democratic principles

Not there of course, the Herald isn’t interested in getting to the truth.
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December 4, 2022 8:31am
- Bob
  
  Pineapple,
  you forgot the most important one…
  – the loss of ambition and personal responsibility.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:22am
David Lenny

Anyone looking for a brief and clear summary of the deceptions behind Three Waters can find one at this link by Frank Newman, part of the NZCPR team, which is well worth financially supporting.

https://www.nzcpr.com/the-three-waters-lie-democracy-the-loser/
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December 4, 2022 8:38am
- rouppe
  
  This litany of lies conceals the true intention of the reform…
  
  An orchestrated litany of lies…
  
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  December 4, 2022 10:58am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Frank Newman is on to it, as is Julian Batchelor (stop co governance)
  It was never about water quality, supply etc. 3 Waters is a smokescreen for a Coup.
  There are many that think a Coup is all rubbish. Come and tell us when you are controlled by the Maori Elite.
  
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  December 4, 2022 12:08pm
dave_c_

Intended consequences !
https://rairfoundation.com/medical-fascism-new-zealand-fights-to-remove-baby-from-parents-who-refuse-tainted-vaccinated-blood-for-childs-operation-video/
Clearly, NZ is donkey deep in the NWO agenda.
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December 4, 2022 8:55am
- ClanMcleod
  
  The demand for unvaccinated blood is only going to increase.
  
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  December 4, 2022 10:50am
- mawm
  
  I presume the Court has ordered the baby get ordinary bank blood and silenced the media as it has disappeared from any news site.
  
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  December 4, 2022 12:06pm
  - Ghost
    
    Still on the news sites, but nothing new to report until the judge makes their decision
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/300753914/baby-blood-case-parents-accept-that-some-blood-products-from-vaccinated-donors-may-have-to-be-used
    
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    December 4, 2022 12:10pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The baby is a twin. The other is a girl.
      Anyway, the parents have 20+ unvaxed people who have type 0+. Seems the restriction is the rules say you can’t choose your own donor. So get blood donation from all 20+ and the Doctor chooses one lot of blood. The Doctor will not know the donor and neither will the parents.
      Sometimes the answer is right in front. The legal beagles can’t see the wood for the trees.
      
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      December 4, 2022 12:27pm
      - glowworm
        
        As a regular platelet donor, not sure I like where this is heading.
        
        More links here for those interested…
        
        https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/the-baby-will-story
        
        https://rumble.com/v1yc730-baby-will-update-thursday-1st-dec.html
        
        https://rumble.com/v1yklgt-baby-will-update-2nd-dec-2022.html
        
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        December 4, 2022 4:35pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Nobody has yet mentioned the parents blood types.
  I guess they are vaccinated in that case.
  
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  December 4, 2022 12:10pm
Warren

Govt to pull entrenchment clause from Three Waters Bill says Chris Hipkins Leader of the House, this must be totally embarrassing for Jacinda Ardern our Prime Minister and Local Government Minister Naiana Muhuta.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/three-waters-backdown-govt-pulls-entrenchment-clause/JEBORA4QCZHGVLOCLO2ER3QMPQ/
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December 4, 2022 8:56am
- Cassandra
  
  Embarrassed? You’ve got to be joking. They’re just biding their time.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:08am
  - Matt Long
    
    You have to have a sense of decency to feel embarrassed at this kind of thing.
    
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    December 4, 2022 9:26am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Untouchable and pig ignorant.
      
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      December 4, 2022 12:29pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  “… this must be totally embarrassing for Jacinda Ardern our Prime Minister and Local Government Minister Naiana Muhuta.”
  
  Not in the slightest Warren -they a now twisting it around to make “lack of integrity” everybody else’s problem.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:41am
- PeeJay
  
  I’ll believe it when it’s finally removed from the proposed legislation. Couldn’t believe how many people, including our fine host believed Ardern’s noncommittal ‘something we will look at’ line last week – it’s still bloody there!
  
  Read Hipkins words carefully – not the NZ Heralds version of it, his actual words:
  
  “We will ask the Committee to look at where entrenchment provisions are appropriate and what majority should be required for them,” Hipkins said.
  
  He further goes on to say/imply that they will try to bind National and Act to public ownership through letters that commit them to public ownership.
  
  FFS people – read the articles and not the headlines! It’s all there and as clear as day how they are going to play this.
  
  It is so bloody obvious what is going to happen.
  
  Hipkins or Arden will probably say something like, ‘Look, we wanted to remove entrenchment as we only wanted to keep water assets in public ownership but the nasty Nats and Act refused to commit to public ownership so now we have no option but to protect public ownership…….via entrenchment.’
  
  And the media will report this as Labour and the Greens saving water assets from privatisation!
  
  They did the same smokescreen about three waters becoming two waters (dropping stormwater remember) only to finally end up at five waters, despite assurances this wasn’t the case.
  
  I’d be very surprised if this entrenchment provision is removed – they don’t back down and they never apologise. Why would they start now?
  
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  December 4, 2022 10:39am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Hipkins is as bad as Jaspinda with the words. I wonder if he was “aware” of what he said?
    “We will ask the Committee to look at where entrenchment provisions are appropriate and what majority should be required for them,”
    Here is the trick – that majority percentage will be variable, so Hipkins and Jaspinda will get what they want. The Committee will be told how to do this.
    Cunning as shithouse rats.
    
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    December 4, 2022 12:36pm
  - JJ56
    
    I fear that Act and the Nats made the mistake of characterising the clause as being about entrenching no privatisation.
    
    As I’ve said a number of times the clause actually entrenches water services entities and nothing can take their place. In other words it entrenches co-governance.
    
    Labour is now making the best out of a back down by picking up the privatisation line and making the story all about that.
    
    Make your bed and lie in it I say to the Nats and Act.
    
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    December 4, 2022 12:43pm
Maggy Wassilieff

The mystery of Tuku Morgan’s appointment to be chairperson of a 3-Waters Entity.

https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2022/12/03/thomas-cranmer-questions-remain-over-the-appointment-of-tuku-morgan/
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December 4, 2022 8:57am
- pdm
  
  maggy the old undies he used taxpayers money to buy 30 years ago are a bit torn and tatty now.
  
  He needs cash for new ones – $79 a pair in the mid 90’s must be close to $500 a pair now.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:26am
  - Swifty
    
    I stocked up yesterday at Farmers St Luke’s – Jockey briefs, 4 pack, $34.99 a pack.
    
    Less than $10 a pair, but you could pay $30-40 each for the real flash gruts.
    
    Those $80 (back then) numbers must have been spun from the finest silks….
    
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    December 4, 2022 10:05am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Tuku Morgan is the most powerful Maori Elite in NZ.
  Willie Jackson is just peanuts to him. Just remember Tuku Morgan does not do the ‘dirty work’ Others do as they are told.
  
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  December 4, 2022 12:41pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Thanks Mods, it was a typo corrected.
    
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    December 4, 2022 12:47pm
CJames

I see the government is going to remove the entrenchment clause from five waters. Their opinion polls must have been really dire to do such an embarassing backdown. Of course, the PM is trying to stay clear of the debacle in case it tarnishes her image. I think that ship sailed long ago.
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December 4, 2022 8:58am
- DimChappie
  
  So very rare for Labour to admit an error and withdraw something, especially a 5 Waters item. This must raise tensions with Mahuta/Greens, possibly setting off an implosion.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:25am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Notice that Jaspinda has not admitted an error, it is the Labour Party’s error.
    All at fault, just not her.
    
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    December 4, 2022 12:45pm
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    According to Panel on ZB – Francesca Rudkin, Simon Wilson, Tim 1 or 2 – it was being done only for a good reason ie to protect from privatisation, it didn’t apply to anything else, must have just got missed in the volume of reading involved, fixed now, nothing to see here, move along now. Change of topic to something else.
    
    No wonder why we have lost complete trust in our media.
    
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    December 4, 2022 1:30pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Such an odd time – Sunday Morning – for the Government to make such an announcement.
  
  https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2212/S00019/government-to-remove-entrenchment-from-three-waters-legislation.htm
  
  Clearly Our Dear PM didn’t want this backdown to be the focus of tomorrow’s Press conference.
  
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  December 4, 2022 10:23am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It’s starting to look like NZ needs an ‘entrenchment bill’ that stops political parties from ‘entrenching’ for their own political gain.
  
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  December 4, 2022 12:51pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Standard diversionary tactic.
  Put up the controversial 3 waters bill.
  
  Last minute….. plant a bomb( entrenchment) totally deflect discussion of the main bill to outrage at the bomb.
  
  Then slowly defuse bomb(removed entrenchment clause)
  
  Pass what they wanted in the first place,
  
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  December 4, 2022 4:52pm
  - leoj
    
    Very clever and true!
    
    This bastard govt have the votes to do anything they want.
    
    Labour dropping bombs all over the place but they simply don’t give a rat’s arse.
    
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    December 4, 2022 6:50pm
G the giant from Dunedin

Breaking: Entrenchment of the 3-5 waters has been scuttled. Pressure is on
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December 4, 2022 8:59am
- Bob
  
  a policy change quietly released early Sunday, while most people are recovering from Billy Joel experience, albeit in the rain.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:25am
  - DeepBlue
    
    It still needs to go back to the House on Tuesdsay though to be debated.
    
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    December 4, 2022 10:08am
  - Flossie
    
    Most people probably didn’t go to the Billy Joel experience. But I take your point.
    
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    December 4, 2022 10:24am
  - MCōs
    
    Interesting you should mention the Billy Joel experience.
    My son in law, who went along, was telling me how dull the audience around them was last night. He said they might as well have stayed home and put on a dvd.
    Bunch of old grey haired farts.
    
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    December 4, 2022 2:34pm
  - alex Masterley
    
    Rain? I live 300 meters from EP.
    No rain here. Great night for the barbeque.
    
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    December 4, 2022 6:32pm
Yadayada

I don’t comment much anymore but the Andrea Vance “opinion” piece in Stuff made me laugh at the irony.

She rails against against opportunistic politics like Instagram posts by politicians laying flowers at the memorial of the dead dairy worker and only targets right of centre MPs who did so – completely ignoring the fact JA went to the funeral – the irony being the person who created the conditions for the killings being morally superior while the Righties are low brow, retail and stupid (her words). There is no more insight from Andrea Vance anymore – only ideology published on a site captured by a dog and bone funding model with its own agenda.

Only Tracey Watkins, in the next story, lays it bare: the reason for crime is the conditions the government has created and led us into.

I guess it’s Stuff’s way of being fair and balanced.
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December 4, 2022 9:02am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  News of the World.
  
  Andrea Vance.
  
  This is who she is, this is what she does.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:38am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    How’s your cellphone? Want it tapped?
    
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    December 4, 2022 12:53pm
- Salacious Crumb
  
  It’s a bit like politicians who line up to lay wreaths on Remembrance Day or ANZAC Day when politicians are the very people responsible for the carnage they are commemorating.
  
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  December 4, 2022 12:33pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Yep, Politicians send Servicemen to war, not Servicemen and when such Servicemen return from conflicts started by Politicians, the same Politicians don’t want to know them. Such Servicemen have to be bought home in the middle of the night so Politicians and their followers don’t harass and spit on them.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/79635810/flashback-tempers-flare-as-vietnam-vets-return-home
    
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    December 4, 2022 1:04pm
- kowtow
  
  Thanks for taking one for the team.
  
  But remember every click on $t1ff can be taken by them to their advertisers……..
  
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  December 4, 2022 1:10pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Child welfare in NZ

“It’s been systemically broken for years and the people who have kept these government departments alive have been us, have been Māori; filling their pockets with our misery.”

– Tureiti Moxon

Folks exploiting the poor and vulnerable since forever.

https://www.teaomaori.news/dame-tureiti-moxon-filling-their-pockets-our-misery-after-state-childcare-exposed
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December 4, 2022 9:07am
- Gravelroad
  
  So Government departments can’t be relied upon to come up with ways to stop violent, angry, resentful, drunk and drugged up people from bashing and murdering their kids.
  No government can stop them.
  Only grown-up, responsible, unselfish adults can.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:57am
Yvette

… arguably, Labour is already running a system of “co-governance” within its own Government with the 15-strong Māori caucus having chalked up considerable policy victories.

Led by deputy Labour leader Kelvin Davis, it comprises 15 members — what Justice Minister Kiritapu Allan refers to as the “first 15.” Labour’s Māori caucus also holds six of the seven Māori electorate seats and boasts six ministers.

It’s known that Parker had to face down that vigorous Māori caucus — which had lined up with powerful iwi interests — to ensure co-governance was not inserted into the Resource Management Act replacement legislation. – Fran O’Sullivan’s opinion piece, pay-walled Herald, but quoted on Cranmer’s Substack
https://cranmer.substack.com/p/mahuta-ditches-no-surprises-policy

So, is co-governance really working in –

■ Te Urewera, especially on burning issues

■ In the Waikato River

“Waikato Awa [River] will always be part of the Kiingitanga. It is who we are…We live on the river; by the river and for the river. So too does every iwi in Aotearoa – kei a taatou te mana o te wai. I will say it again – Te Iwi Maaori owns the water. “We are prepared to share our taonga for the wellbeing of all. But it must be done on our terms and our tikanga — that is our way.”
– Kiingi Tuheitia, told his influential audience at Ngaruawahia in August, at the 16th anniversary celebrations of his coronation
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/graham-adams-three-waters-voters-don-t-know-the-half-of-it

■ and now in the Labour Government

with Nanaia Mahuta throwing Jacinda under the bus.
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December 4, 2022 9:08am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  “co-governance” – wonder if the dictionaries will soon be adding this hyphenated word as a synonym for blackmail!
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:36am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Racial aristocracy is a more accurate description.
    
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    December 4, 2022 12:22pm
mandk

I have recently re-watched documentaries on Youtube about two great New Zealanders: Archibald McIndoe and Keith Park.

We don’t honour them enough. But my question is: Which other NZers have made outstanding contributions to the wellbeing of humankind?

And how should we give them the honour they deserve?
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December 4, 2022 9:09am
- Bob
  
  We as a nation, no longer applaud nor remember personal achievements for the greater good if the populace.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:27am
- pdm
  
  You could start with Sir Edmund Hillary for his work in Katmandu.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:29am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Before McIndoe , his relative, Harold Gillies.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Gillies
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:57am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Way back, Earnest Rutherford and before that the women and men who enfranchised both Maori and women.
    
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    December 4, 2022 10:54am
- Swifty
  
  Good on her.
  
  Now let’s apply that same thinking to our primary and secondary education system!
  
  Smash the whole thing and start again, eliminate the vested interests, return control to parents and fund their educational choices.
  
  Then let’s look at the ivory towers in our tertiary sector followed by a few government departments I could name…..
  
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  December 4, 2022 10:23am
  - Swifty
    
    Sorry, this was a reply to Maggy’s post.
    
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    December 4, 2022 10:27am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Put up a statue. Then the libtards and morons on the woke left can virtue signal and pull them down in a couple of years…..
  
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  December 4, 2022 10:38am
  - MCōs
    
    There’s a statute to Sir Keith Parks in Thames.
    
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    December 4, 2022 2:06pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  I was born with a cleft palate and the surgeon that did the op was one of Macindoe’s Men
  
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  December 4, 2022 11:56am
70andstilllearning

Would have thought that there was any number of statements in the public domain from National and Act now that categorically state that they will not privatise public water assets. Obviously Hipkins thinks that others lie as a matter of course like he and his colleagues!

“Hipkins said he was also going to send letters to the opposition in order to “ask them to commit to the public ownership” of water assets.

“In order to protect against privatisation of these assets, we will also be seeking political assurances from the National and ACT parties via letters that ask them to commit to public ownership.” ”

Also interesting to see now that they want to” legislate” the use of entrenchment. Not surprising I guess when deceit is you main weapon for progressing your fundamental ideology. Labour and the Greens yet displaying their complete lack of a basic human trait – trust in others.

“As such, we will refer the wider matter to the Standing Orders Committee, where all parties are represented, in order to strengthen the protections for entrenchment provisions.

“We will ask the committee to look at where entrenchment provisions are appropriate and what majority should be required for them.”

https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/12/04/govt-to-strip-three-waters-bill-of-dangerous-entrenchment-clause/
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December 4, 2022 9:29am
- Spam
  
  Nats and Act should counter with asking Labour and Greens to guarantee ongoing free access and use of water without royalties or other charges, including management fees etc.
  
  Unfortunately they won’t, and even if they did, there would be millions of ways to circumvent it.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:58am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Even if they did “legislate” it, would they respect the legislation? Their track record for brushing things off like ” spending without the authority of Parliament” gives me little confidence in the likelihood.
    
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    December 4, 2022 10:11am
  - Swifty
    
    Yeah, National should ask Labour to guarantee Charter Schools – in the spirit of cooperation and public mindedness.
    
    Yeah right.
    
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    December 4, 2022 10:26am
- Swifty
  
  A classic red herring from Hipkins.
  
  He’s trying to minimise the embarrassment from this retrenchment fiasco.
  
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  December 4, 2022 10:25am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Normal twist to deflect Swifty – Beehive statement published on a SUNDAY morning and amazingly almost every NZ MSM outlet had it’s version up within the hour. Talk about orchestration.
    
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    December 4, 2022 1:04pm
    - Nickc2
      
      They would have been advised on Friday of what was going to happen, when, and how. It would then have been a competition between Te Herald and Te Stuff as to who wrote the article least impacting on the Govt thus their amount of payout from the MSM bribe fund was determined.
      
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      December 4, 2022 1:15pm
  - Paulus
    
    A classic misrepresentation from Hipkins –
    No, just another Lie !
    
    4 0
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    December 4, 2022 1:17pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Act has been quick off the mark this morning with a Press release 3 mins after Hipkins’ announcement
  
  https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2212/S00020/govt-cries-privatisation-in-3w-backdown-while-opening-kiwibank-up-for-sale.htm
  
  Trouble is the MSM will not give a full analysis of Act or Nats’ concerns.
  
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  December 4, 2022 10:27am
Spam

Question – if the entrenching was passed, was it just at that stage of the bill, or overall? I.e. is a super majority needed to remove it now?

I ask, because if the latter, even if labour want to remove it (under pressure), they would need the greens to agree.
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December 4, 2022 9:42am
- rouppe
  
  It’s was the second reading, I think. So not yet law
  
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  December 4, 2022 12:38pm
surfing

I want no noise Sundays, like in Germany.

Why can’t politicians debate this? Such a simple law would make life more pleasant, at least for one day a week.

That’ll stop my dickhead neighbour from firing up his circular saws every sunday morning.
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December 4, 2022 9:53am
Captain Mainwaring

When the news of the canning of Three Waters entrenchment first went up on $tuff, there was a picture of Spindy with a face like a dried up prune standing next to Mahuta who looked like she’d just wet her pants.
It was a very unflattering picture, and now it’s gone.
9th floor to $tuff. “Get rid of that picture. NOW!”
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December 4, 2022 9:55am
- kevn
  
  @captn… Merely a pragmatic, rat swallowing vote retainer… they think so, NZ doesn’t.
  
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  December 4, 2022 10:20am
- Inandout
  
  CM, a pic capture on this site page, should be framed.
  https://nzissues.com/Community/threads/entrancement-gone.37327/#post-1570148
  
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  December 4, 2022 11:42am
dave_c_

Currently sitting in the sun, enjoying the view of farmland and the animals occupying it.
Tis a pity that we may no longer be able to enjoy such beauty – Looks like sitting looking at millions of trees occupying this land will become the norm – thanks to the governments push to kill off real farming.
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December 4, 2022 10:02am
Its only I

So Labour have canned the entrenchment and gone quiet.

Will the MSN run a series of flip flop articles about Labour?
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December 4, 2022 10:04am
- Paulus
  
  No, only a flip flop article about Luxon – youknow that !
  
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  December 4, 2022 1:23pm
Maggie Pie

RANDOM IMPERTINENT QUESTION

Has anybody EVER seen Nanaia Mahoota take part in a one-on-one interview situation…..say like Q&A or with Ryan Bridge?

We were discussing this with friends last night and the only time we have ever heard her speak on any matters whatsoever, was where she was able to read the answers from a prepared script.

Bit strange intit?
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December 4, 2022 10:07am
- Ghost
  
  Have you ever seen Tamati and Nanaia together or is Nanaia really Tamati in drag?
  
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  December 4, 2022 10:09am
- septic skeptic
  
  Yes I have seen a couple, though always soft interviews and if the interviewer ever broaches a difficult subject they accept waffle as an answer. Having heard Mahuta “off the cuff” the need for scripted answers is all too obvious.
  
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  December 4, 2022 11:34am
- MCōs
  
  If you’d bothered to do a quick search you would have found this interview from July
  https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/q-and-a/clips/nanaia-mahuta-hits-out-at-conflict-allegations-faceless-critics
  BTW
  You spelt her name wrong.
  
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  December 4, 2022 1:57pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    LOL!! 1min 40sec in the last 5 years…..and it was only in a self-serving attempt to push back against corruption allegations about MahootaCorp.
    
    Honestly Cossie, as much as I luv you here, there are times I wonder if your arse is jealous of the amount of shite that comes out of your mouth 😀
    
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    December 4, 2022 3:06pm
    - MCōs
      
      Keep the insults coming, that’s what you’re good at.
      
      2 0
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      December 4, 2022 6:00pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Spelling a person’s name wrong to insult them is a clown act. You are a clown.
      
      1 6
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      December 4, 2022 7:21pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        I’m a clown?
        
        Yu’re the one that admits getting round the place in a 20yo Toyota. 🙁
        
        3 2
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        December 4, 2022 8:06pm
      - Vory v zakone
        
        Now Yu are the clown 😉
        
        2 1
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        December 4, 2022 8:20pm
Swifty

Chinese with close ties with the CCP continue to spread their love, good works and honourable conduct throughout the world:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/480028/yan-zhou-plead-guilty-to-conspiring-to-bribe-marshall-islands-officials
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December 4, 2022 10:35am
- kowtow
  
  We’re very far from being immune .
  
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  December 4, 2022 1:14pm
Yvette

Entrenchment diversion tactic?

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Hipkins both said they were aware of the previous attempt to get support for the 75 percent entrenchment but not of the 60 percent provision put forward by the Greens until after the fact. After backlash, the provision was referred back to Parliament’s business committee.

But –
It was, in fact, the Working Group on Representation, Governance and Accountability that recommended in March that the Bill entrench the need for 75% of MPs to vote in favour of repealing or amending any provision of the Bill necessary to allow privatisation of a water services entity. Cabinet agreed with that proposal in April and therefore sought cross-party support. Mahuta knew very well at that stage that it would be a highly controversial undertaking. In her April Cabinet Paper the Minister stated:

Support for this provision will be tested when the Bill reaches the committee of the whole House. Entrenchment of these provisions would be unusual. Entrenchment is currently reserved for core constitutional arrangements. A range of similarly significant policy settings are not entrenched. There are complex constitutional arguments about whether entrenchment of these provisions would be respected by future Parliaments and the courts.

https://cranmer.substack.com/p/entrenchment-the-latest-storm-engulfing

Again: The Entrenchment matter seems to be all about “any provision of the Bill necessary to allow privatisation of a water services entity” while, in fact, it appears “Mana o te Wai” statements, undefined and rather open-ended but available only to Maori, will allow a control that may equate to privatisation
n’est-ce pas? – no problemo?
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December 4, 2022 10:38am
- Yvette
  
  Further –
  Three Waters: Government announces it will remove entrenchment clause from legislation
  Leader of the House Chris Hipkins said the government would fix the Water Services Entities Bill this week …
  “The approach in this amendment allowed an entrenchment provision to pass in a way that is not typical for Parliament. That has wider ramifications that we are not comfortable with. That’s why we will fix the issue,” Hipkins said.
  Hipkins said he hoped National and ACT would commit to keeping water assets in public ownership.
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/480046/three-waters-government-announces-it-will-remove-entrenchment-clause-from-legislation
  
  Chris Hipkins – We will fix this matter … and transfer / deflect the guilt to National and ACT
  
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  December 4, 2022 11:07am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Nat/ACT should publicly and unequivocally commit to returning these assets to local council ownership. Pretty simple and obvious.
    
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    December 4, 2022 11:26am
    - Ghost
      
      https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/11/13/three-waters-nationals-policy-to-be-revealed-closer-to-election/
      
      He said National had been clear about its priorities to repeal Labour’s Three Waters legislation, remove co-governance provisions, and maintain local ownership of water assets.
      
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      December 4, 2022 11:35am
rouppe

Serious question.

Does anyone know the Act in which it specifies that the same speed limit must apply across all lanes in the same direction?

I’m 90% sure that is the regulation, and I have an example where it isn’t being applied and I want to give NZTA a serve.
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December 4, 2022 11:09am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  If you read Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004 Act , you will see:
  
  Under 5:2(3) reference to a Road Controlling authority being able to set a maximum speed limit to part of a road…
  
  and under 5.3 there is mention of minimum speed lanes
  
  https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/whole.html#DLM303085
  
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  December 4, 2022 1:24pm
  - rouppe
    
    Thank you, but not quite what I’m looking for.
    
    For example, in Wellington, northbound out of the city, it is a variable speed limit zone. During evening rush hour, often the 2 lanes that turn into sh2 are blocked, while the 2 lanes going up SH1 and ngauranga Gorge are relatively clear.
    
    But the whole road is limited to 60 because of the blocked traffic on sh2 and nzta have said that can’t change because you can’t have for example 2 lanes set at 60 and the other 2 at 80.
    
    Well, just before the now SH59 meets with South bound transmission gully traffic there is a posted 80kph sign. Not temporary, seems permanent. However it is still in force during the merge of SH59 and SH1. This is at odds with the gully traffic which is under a 100kph limit.
    
    Therefore nzta are not following their own regulations around not having 2 posted limits on one stretch of road, and I’m trying to find which one it is.
    
    I think 5.2 is saying, if it’s a posted 100kph limit but you’re towing a trailer which has a 90kph limit then you take the lower limit.
    
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    December 4, 2022 4:45pm
Maggie Pie

Just tried to tweet @Hillary that Elon is not feeling suicidal.
She’s got about 31m followers!

But looks like she’s suddenly turned off her ‘REPLY’ function. LOL!!

https://twitter.com/@HillaryClinton
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December 4, 2022 11:16am
- Ghost
  
  I’m surprised Bill hasn’t committed suicide.
  
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  December 4, 2022 11:21am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I’m sure Killary is thinking about it 😀
    
    https://twitter.com/LaurenceSterre/status/1596658735698558977
    
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    December 4, 2022 11:48am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Kari Lake did the same over becoming Arizona Governor. (it is ongoing)
  She is not suicidal.
  https://twitter.com/KariLake/status/1588352039049797632
  
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  December 4, 2022 1:16pm
Prince

Farewell Doc Martin.
Proof positive that colonialism still delivers benefits for NZ.
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December 4, 2022 11:32am
septic skeptic

Seymour on the 5 waters backdown
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/12/three-waters-act-s-david-seymour-calls-back-down-on-proposal-to-entrench-part-of-legislation-a-win-for-democracy.html

Maybe Luxon is busy doing some clever management stuff?
6 2
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December 4, 2022 11:38am
- Nickc2
  
  That’s only a backdown on Entrenchment.
  We still have to get the rest of the bill removed so Labour can’t vote it in using their numbers in the House.
  Let’s start with removing anything resembling co-governance, then concentrate on the return of all assets to their owners (Councils).
  NB: Nobody owns our water and neither should they!
  
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  December 4, 2022 12:04pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Jacinda says:
  
  “…we took a view on the principle of ensuring that a public asset, like water, is absolutely protected from privatisation and I think that’s a view generally shared by New Zealanders.” …
  
  Idiot.
  
  Why? If a Party campaigned on privatising water assets and won office of course they should be able to do it?
  
  More importantly – what they are proposing to do in a co-governance model is WAY worse than “privatising” water assets. If it was privatised all New Zealanders could buy shares in the owning companies (that could be part of the deal). Instead, she is giving control to a tribal elite.
  
  Honestly her hypocrisy/idiocy is without bounds.
  
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  December 4, 2022 12:09pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “that’s a view generally shared by New Zealanders.” …”
    
    More gaslighting. Express a view and then state that it is a view shared by everyone.
    
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    December 4, 2022 12:10pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Such people do not speak for me!!!
      
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      December 4, 2022 12:13pm
  - Ghost
    
    Councils own the water infrastructure so it is already protected. Well until Jacinda puts it in the private ownership of iwi.
    
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    December 4, 2022 12:19pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      That is something to watch. Need to re-read her Jaspinda and Hipkins comments on this. She has yet to respond this morning as far as I know.
      
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      December 4, 2022 1:24pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Final addendum.
    
    There was a time when most power companies and telecoms were in public ownership. They were often vertically integrated monopolies with terrible service.
    
    To say that water provision should NEVER be privatised is absurd.
    
    She is making me angrier each day that passes 🙁
    
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    December 4, 2022 12:20pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Church for Luxon.
  
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  December 4, 2022 1:19pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  “Maybe Luxon is busy doing some clever management stuff?”
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/absolute-chaos-national-leader-christopher-luxon-reacts-to-three-waters-backdown/2J4ZBCT67NB6VLJNNOG2INJATQ/
  
  Great to see that the Leader of at least one party of a probable right leaning coalition government next year can multitask 🙂
  
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  December 4, 2022 1:24pm
  - JJ56
    
    And fortunately he is moving to the high ground opposing entrenching co-goverance, and away from the privatisation issue.
    
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    December 4, 2022 1:53pm
- MCōs
  
  I’d like to know if ACT has a position on water infrastructure privatization?
  This happened in England/Wales thirty plus years ago.
  Here are some opinions on the outcome.
  https://www.ciwem.org/the-environment/how-should-water-and-environmental-management-firms-tap,-retain-and-promote-female-talent
  
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  December 4, 2022 1:48pm
crikey

Gravel: What people want/need is for National/ACT to paint their vision for the country, where they will take us and what values they aspire to – leadership – unlike Labour/Ardern/Mahuta who had a vision but painted over it until they knew they could do – get away with – almost anything they want.
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December 4, 2022 11:50am
- I remember when
  
  crikey:
  Whatever Labour want it is a ‘vision.’
  
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  December 4, 2022 12:25pm
Maggie Pie

The power and reach of ‘KB’ is amazing!!

Remember I posted here a few days back how I was ditching my BALENCIAGA gear?

https://twitter.com/PatriotNz2022/status/1599174437861216256
4 1
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December 4, 2022 11:58am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I think you mean “Beluga”
  
  2 0
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  December 4, 2022 7:04pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    You’re right actually.
    It was on the recommendation of the Sturgeon General.
    
    😀 😀 😀
    
    4 0
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    December 4, 2022 7:27pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/130658159/waka-kotahi-apologises-for-chaos-after-closure-of-key-nelson-highway
Proof positive that there is a direct link between the renaming of Govt entities with a maori name and the subsequent crap performance and lack of common sense.
See also: CYFS, Dept of Health, TEC etc etc
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December 4, 2022 12:22pm
- Ghost
  
  Right. Because this sort of thing has never happened before it got a Māori name….
  
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  December 4, 2022 12:32pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I agree. It is not causation. Just amazing correlation.
    
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    December 4, 2022 12:45pm
I remember when

SST: ‘outrage and delight at speed limits’: Jenny Nicholls.
“AT has saved the fastest speeds for the winding, unsealed roads at the rural end of the island, which makes people wonder if any of its staff have ever been there.”

Who would ever have guessed?
8 0
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December 4, 2022 12:23pm
I remember when

The shocking revelations of Canada’s Emergencies Act inquiry:
Included in CSIS Director’s comments:
“There (are) no foreign actors indentified at this point supporting or financing this convoy.”

Perhaps all their resources were taken up supporting NZ Anti-Vaccine Mandate parliamentary convoys.

An inquiry would tell us.
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December 4, 2022 12:33pm
- mandk
  
  That would right.
  
  Ardern told us that foreign agitators had infiltrated the anti-mandate protest, and she has never needed to tell a lie in her time as politician.
  
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  December 4, 2022 5:54pm
Yvette

Eugene is out of the bottle
Sage told RNZ there had been “negotiations” with the minister, but wouldn’t put a date on it. She defended putting up the [entrenchment] amendment without proactively flagging it publicly, saying anyone who had read the select committee report would know the Greens’ position.
The problem sits with Labour: why did the most senior ministers in the government not know this particular provision was going to be put to the House (and pass), but also why was the case not made to the public before steaming ahead, and the rationale laid out?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/479745/power-play-three-waters-anti-privatisation-blunder-adds-to-storm-of-controversy

“… why did the most senior ministers in the government not know”
Mahuta knew

Has any journalist the intestinal fortitude to dig a little further on the Mahuta / Sage relationship – was it a “co-governance” interaction, or colonisation by Mahuta?
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December 4, 2022 12:36pm
Rusty

It’s a goal of Marxism ideology that if you control the media, water, and food supply you are half way to controlling the people.
12 0
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December 4, 2022 12:50pm
Maggie Pie

Whatever happened to the movie…. “They are us”?

Asking for a friend.

https://twitter.com/UltraDane/status/1599191464374075392
5 0
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December 4, 2022 2:07pm
- Philview
  
  While I don’t think it was Jacinda Ardern’s original intention, the media have certainly exploited that terrible event to try and build political capital for her benefit. When they do that it makes me feel queasy.
  
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  December 4, 2022 2:29pm
Philview

I was talking to a friend a few weeks ago and we agreed that too much mental energy spent in the political space isn’t healthy. I thought I would have a break from it but every week the Government pulls a stunt that is too hard to ignore.
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December 4, 2022 2:11pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  That’s quite an admirable goal Philview – but sadly just another dream that Labour has managed to stuff up. 🙂
  
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  December 4, 2022 2:38pm
Gulag1917

Sums up NZ’s financial situation.

“How did you go bankrupt?” Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.”
Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises.
12 0
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December 4, 2022 2:41pm
- Hard Cheese
  
  Oops, reported by mistake…sorry Gulag1917. Mods please ignore, was supposed to be an uptick
  
  [Mod – don’t worry about it, I do it too]
  
  2 0
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  December 4, 2022 6:15pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I get it all the time as well 😀 😀 😀
    
    4 0
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    December 4, 2022 6:35pm
Swifty

I’ve just downloaded the TVNZ app so that I could watch Willie Jackson’s interview on Q&A today.

Good grief, NZers will be better off when that man is thrown out of government.

His arguments for his policies are shallow or non-existent, he talks in riddles, repeats himself constantly and it appears he cares not a jot for New Zealanders and the taxes they must pay for his flights of fancy.

Flights of fancy I might add which greatly favour his lefty-voter base.

But do I hear lefties screaming for his blood and accusing him of ‘favouring his mates’ like they did to Key non-stop for 8 years?

Who am I kidding.
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December 4, 2022 3:22pm
- H. Upmann
  
  Thanks for taking one for the team Swifty. Watching anything to do with William Jackson involved is away beyond my tolerance levels……….and I seriously wonder about William’s heritage…….is he actually a fake Maori?
  
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  December 4, 2022 8:13pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Even Labour’s Coughlan in the Herald calls it a train-wreck interview so it must have been terrible.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:00pm
WaynelSexton

We live in clown world. The media will call Caitlyn Jenner, she/her, but they refuse to call the artist formerly known as Kanye West, Ye.
6 1
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December 4, 2022 3:31pm
- Ghost
  
  Not wanting to defend the media if you ran a story about Ye most people wouldn’t know who he was until they look up it’s Kayne.
  
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  December 4, 2022 3:34pm
Maggie Pie

TWITTERGATE

Here’s the full interview recorded with Elon this morning.

You’ll need to be quick before YT is ordered to take it down….

https://youtu.be/cJiw_VpnGgk
2 2
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December 4, 2022 4:01pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Democrat Party Handed a Bombshell…It’s All About to Come Out.
The US left are running scared, they are desperate. This could get dangerous for some.
https://gopnewsfeed.com/democrat-party-handed-a-bombshell-its-all-about-to-come-out/
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December 4, 2022 4:03pm
- MCōs
  
  We used to work with an American chap in Bangkok who came to work every morning with shock horror exposés.
  Did you guys knows the Queen’s been arrested?
  There’s four Popes and one of them assassinated two of the others.
  Obama was born in Kenya. Well, he got that right.
  Tons of JFK death stories.
  His wife sat at home and found all this stuff on weird corners of the internet . . . .
  He stopped when people started laughing before he opened his mouth.
  His wife stopped when she got a job.
  
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  December 4, 2022 5:31pm
Alan Wilkinson

Cafe owner jailed for refusing to display a Covid QR code:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/130661589/cafe-owner-who-refused-to-display-covid19-qr-code-imprisoned-for-not-following-food-safety-rules
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December 4, 2022 4:11pm
- Ghost
  
  No, cafe owner jailed for not following the food act.
  
  8 5
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  December 4, 2022 4:29pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    So displaying a QR Code makes the food safe? Not complying makes the food unsafe?
    More socialist bullshit. He did not follow the rules.
    Will Doughty, Kaikōura District Council chief executive, said “we had no other option but to prosecute”.
    No other option? Well the Council could have printed a QR code and displayed it on Council property – for those sheep who wanted to scan EVERY code they see.
    Simple is best, but I see Doughty as being a simple arsehole justifying his job.
    Congratulations Will Doughty, you put someone in jail. Now for your next trick……..
    
    12 2
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    December 4, 2022 5:18pm
    - Ghost
      
      It’s nothing to do with the QR code which is no longer around. Food safety rules are not the QR code. She was prosecuted under the Food Act 2014 for selling non complying food. The council had spent a year trying to get her to comply with the act.
      
      4 4
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      December 4, 2022 5:29pm
      - Ghost
        
        In background to the court’s decision, the council said Rayner had previously complied with food safety regulations, “but in 2021 requested that her valid food registration be withdrawn. She then continued to sell food to the public without food registration measures in place at her cafe Bean Me Up, and has continued to do so right until the day of sentencing.”
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/kaikoura-cafe-owner-who-refused-to-put-up-covid-scan-codes-during-lockdown-jailed-for-selling-food-without-proper-registration/E6AUY7J44NDQXHMB72QZINNTBM/
        
        1 1
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        December 4, 2022 5:40pm
      - MCōs
        
        Let’s not beat around the bush. She’s a fool.
        Anyone with a brain knows certain standards need to be set in the food vending industry.
        
        5 2
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        December 4, 2022 5:58pm
      - Alan Wilkinson
        
        She knows and complied with the standards. She objects now to Government officiousness.
        
        3 1
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        December 4, 2022 8:05pm
    - peterwn
      
      Before loud mouthing the Council CEO any more note that the judge said that if the Council had not brought the prosecution (following Council efforts to get the business to comply) the Council would be failing in its duty. If a customer had died of food poisoning the Council and its CEO would be deep trouble.
      Something similar happened in Wellington years ago. A landlord had some substandard flats and the building inspector had difficulty with getting the flats brought up to scratch. It got to the stage where the inspector needed to get the City Solicitor to prosecute the landlord who happened to be the City Solicitor. Inspector went to the CEO who told the inspector to sort it out with the City Solicitor. Given the circumstances the CEO should have hired a law firm to throw the City Solicitor under a bus. Law changes required Councils to re-appoint their CEO’s and that incident reduced his chance of re-appointment to zero.
      
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      December 4, 2022 8:40pm
  - Surely Knott
    
    It was a very unclear article. Violating the food act repeatedly how exactly …they never say. And she is imprisoned !!!!!! How did she violate the food act did she sell unpasteurised milk or something, not clean her bench tops?
    
    Then they say some old fines were taken into account , which may have included the minor no qr code fine, which on balance lead to her being imprisoned . For violating the food act?!!?!
    
    Nz deserves to be clearly informed how she violated it and how often she was asked to comply. Instead the majority of the article is that she previously violated the authoritarian covid rules which leads you to think her outrageous sentence is because she dares question the govt.
    
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    December 4, 2022 5:41pm
    - Ghost
      
      Nz herald article is better https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/kaikoura-cafe-owner-who-refused-to-put-up-covid-scan-codes-during-lockdown-jailed-for-selling-food-without-proper-registration/E6AUY7J44NDQXHMB72QZINNTBM/
      
      3 1
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      December 4, 2022 5:47pm
      - CJames
        
        That article makes no mention of unsafe food, just that she didn’t comply with the Council paperwork requirements.
        
        2 1
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        December 4, 2022 9:49pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Reading between the lines it seems she refused to put up the Covid QR then the Council prosecuted and fined her so she cancelled her food registration and refused to reinstate it. Control freak Government provoked complete rebellion against bureaucracy. Sad and unnecessary.
    
    12 1
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    December 4, 2022 6:07pm
  - H. Upmann
    
    Pity she didn’t rape someone.
    She could have done that x 4 and still be at home sleeping in her own bed.
    
    5 0
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    December 4, 2022 8:05pm
- CAKE FACE1
  
  Alice in “Aotearoa” 2022:
  
  Four rapes? Home detention.
  
  Refusing to display a Rona QR code? Off to the slammer you go!
  
  What a hoot!
  
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  December 4, 2022 4:48pm
- MCōs
  
  “Rayner told the court she had not seen evidence that WorkSafe had jurisdiction to prosecute her, and she did not consent to the court proceedings.
  She said repeatedly that she was not a defendant but “a living woman on the earth” who stood under tikanga Māori and common law, and the case was against her belief system, as she only recognised the authority of God.”
  
  You’d have thought there’s no answer to that logic.
  
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  December 4, 2022 5:16pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    “not necessarily something I would be aware of”
    Works for both sides, even though she is a leftie (I think)
    
    3 0
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    December 4, 2022 5:23pm
Ghost

Awww, poor electric car owners

Electric cars could be banned from making non-essential journeys in Switzerland this winter under a Covid lockdown-style plan to deal with potential energy shortages.

Emergency proposals have been drafted by the government that could see buildings heated to no more than 20 degrees Celsius, shop opening hours reduced and streaming services limited.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/12/03/electric-car-journeys-could-restricted-switzerland-plan-deal/
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December 4, 2022 4:47pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  I wonder if they’ll go from offering subsidies for EVs to offering subsidies for ICE vehicles.
  
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  December 5, 2022 6:58am
kevn

@Ghost… What with VW stalling battery production due to energy supply issues, it’s not looking great for the predicted EV manufacture predictions.
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December 4, 2022 5:16pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The EV jerks just think the charging electricity comes from a plastic thing on the wall that has three slots.
  Yes, they are that fucking stupid. The supply is not their problem.
  
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  December 4, 2022 5:25pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Fuck. Just logging on to FB and there is the meme.
    “If it wasn’t that nice man that discovered electricity
    we would be watching TV by candlelight.”
    There it is. the 2022 mindset.
    
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    December 4, 2022 5:29pm
    - Tauhei Notts
      
      I am such a generous man that I will offer to pay the Green Party subscription for that person.
      
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      December 4, 2022 9:17pm
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    Hi Steve,
    
    Please explain what you mean by “EV Jerks”.
    
    I own two EV’s. Am I one of your EV jerks?
    
    David Farrar, ex MP who runs this blog owns an EV. Is he also an EV Jerk?
    
    Perhaps I misunderstood your post. Hope so.
    
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    December 4, 2022 7:09pm
    - Ghost
      
      I don’t think David has ever been an MP
      
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      December 4, 2022 7:14pm
      - info@cruzpro.com
        
        Thank you. I stand corrected.
        
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        December 4, 2022 7:22pm
      - peterwn
        
        That is right, he has never been a MP. Some years ago he explained on Kiwiblog that he had considered the possibility but decided it was not for him despite his vast political experience.
        
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        December 4, 2022 8:10pm
    - H. Upmann
      
      Just a little food for thought —
      
      https://climatechangedispatch.com/lomborg-the-muddled-reality-of-electric-cars/
      
      3 0
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      December 4, 2022 7:55pm
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      If you own two EVs I think you might be an EV jerk.
      Do some research on the environmental catastrophe unfolding in Indonesia caused by lithium mining for the electric car industry in China.
      
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      December 4, 2022 8:06pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      OK, some are jerks. They have no idea of the electricity infrastructure. Power comes from a thing on the wall, that is as far as they can think.
      
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      December 5, 2022 8:45am
Ghost

Must be an election coming up sooner than we think, lolly scramble time

The Government has announced which councils are receiving a share of the multi-million dollar fund to create better transport choices for New Zealanders.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/12/government-reveals-which-councils-will-receive-multi-million-dollar-funding-to-improve-transport.html
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December 4, 2022 5:49pm
- peterwn
  
  Where is Labour’s corruption expert Ginny Anderson when you need her. But presumably Labour can never be corrupt.
  
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  December 4, 2022 8:12pm
- CJames
  
  It seems the money is coming from NZTA, so it is the pothole fixing money diverted.
  
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  December 4, 2022 9:51pm
- hullkiwi
  
  Ghost, sorry, but you need to keep up. Yesterday’s announcement was announcement on how the money that was announced for spending on Transport in May will actually be spent.
  
  So, it was yet another announcement following the original announcement. Or to put it another way, nothing new to see here!
  
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  December 5, 2022 7:54am
kevn

@Ghost…. On ya bike arden and wood.
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December 4, 2022 6:47pm
Maggie Pie

AND LEADING TONITE’S NEWS @6…..

Crying with tears of joy and emotion, TV3’s Paddy Gower takes full-credit for Pharmac’s decision to fund the drug Trikafta.

Onya Patrick!!! 😀
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December 4, 2022 6:54pm
- mandk
  
  Poor Paddy, I don’t think he has been able to recover from that intellectual spanking he was given a couple of years ago by those Canadian free speech activists.
  
  He would be happier reporting for NZ Womens’ Weekly or the kids section in Stuff.
  
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  December 4, 2022 6:59pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Hey Maggie, good to see you’ve switched from TV1 Pravda News, even if you have to put up with the insufferable Paddy.
  
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  December 4, 2022 7:38pm
- slightlyrighty
  
  I was wondering why the Government announced it’s entrenchment withdrawl on a Sunday Afternoon. I certainly found it odd.
  
  With this planned announcement, it all makes sense!
  
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  December 5, 2022 6:44am
Ghost

Whistleblower US scientist who worked with Wuhan lab claims COVID WAS genetically engineered and leaked from the site – and says ‘the US government is to blame’ because it funded the research

Dr Andrew Huff, the former vice president of
EcoHealth Alliance, has claimed that SARS-CoV-2 was genetically engineered and leaked from a facility in China

Huff said he has no proof that the leak was deliberate however does claim in his explosive tell-all book that biosecurity at the Chinese facility was compromised

EcoHealth Alliance had been studying different coronaviruses in bats for more than ten years with funding from the National Institutes of Health
Led by Dr Peter Daszak – there were concerns about the ties between Wuhan and EcoHealth Alliance – there most recent grant came in September 2021

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11498155/Whistleblower-worked-funded-Wuhan-lab-claims-Covid-genetically-engineered-leaked.html
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December 4, 2022 11:32pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Please follow this story and come back when it is published in multiple media who are able to cite multiple sources.
  
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  December 5, 2022 5:40am
  - All_on_Red
    
    A simple Google search shows many Media sources reporting it was a leak.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=Wuhan+Covid+leak
    5.40am is early to post.
    Crap the bed again?
    
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    December 5, 2022 8:02am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Mike must be part of the nightshift 12 am to 8 am at Fraser House.
      
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      December 5, 2022 8:49am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Cool bro. And the multiple sources?
      Can you explain to layman me why I should be certain that the epidemic started from a lab leak?
      
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      December 5, 2022 11:36am

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