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October 27, 2022 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 27 October 2022

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General Debate

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Warren

Biggest shakeup in workplace relations passes into law- But the National Party is promising to undo it if they become the Government in 2023.
Why should 393,406 Union members 14.30%of the workforce get to ride shotgun over the workforce in this fair play agreement if 1,000 workers or 10% of the workforce demand it. You already have retail Chief Executive saying the the Fair Play Agreements Bill is fundamentally flawed.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/10/fair-pay-agreements-biggest-shakeup-in-workplace-relations-passes-into-law.html
New Zealand has 393406 total union membership as at the 1st of March 2021 14.30% of the Labour force and union membership increase by 3% compared to 2020.
So again the New Zealand workforce is forced to do what the minority want in our workforce relationship because of this rotten out of date Labour Government that has run out of idea’s.
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October 27, 2022 8:05am
- slightlyrighty
  
  With 3 Waters, and now this, we are seeing more and more the push of the political left to put in place legislation to allow a minority to hold the majority to ransom.
  
  They are changing the very face of democracy in New Zealand.
  
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  October 27, 2022 8:32am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Changing NZ back to the seventies. Back then I refused to join the Engineer’s Union. My Employer paid it for me rather than go to Court.
    Why the hell would anyone want to join a Union when the working conditions were great and wages way above award rates? Big Union, but still wanted control to pull strikes for no real reason.
    I refused to make a point, so did the other workers. Then it became voluntary, suddenly we never saw the Rep again. EPMU.
    
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    October 27, 2022 9:31am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Yes, just like the Māori farming blocks, their emissions will be paid by the tax payer, utterly disgusting, more and more like Zimbabwe by the day
    
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    October 27, 2022 11:23am
  - Nickc2
    
    Yep yep, a divided nation!
    Don’t forget, we still have co-governance to come, without even knowing what it means.
    
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    October 27, 2022 11:48am
  - Nickc2
    
    Well, Willy Jackson did say “democracy has changed”. In other words, Maori Democracy now exists where what’s theirs is theirs, and what’s ours is also theirs by legislation. In any other country, this would be considered a joke but not in Lil-Olde-NZ, it’s real.
    
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    October 27, 2022 1:10pm
    - Bridgenag
      
      Like that…
      
      what theirs is theirs and what is yours is theirs too
      
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      October 27, 2022 2:48pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  And over 40% of those are education and health, so they are protecting themselves against NZ taxpayers.
  
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  October 27, 2022 8:51am
- riffer
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Interesting take. After all, the Employment Contracts Act in the 1990s forced the New Zealand workforce to do what the minority (employers) wanted in their workplace relationships.
  
  There is no requirement for union membership. It does not surprise me to see the CEO of retail stating the act is fundamentally flawed as it takes away a massive imbalance in power that they have gotten very used to.
  
  Plenty of people who are not CEOs in New Zealand quite like this Act.
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:14am
  - Swifty
    
    Utter nonsense.
    
    No-one is ‘forced’ to take anything, any wage or employment offer, in NZ before today.
    
    Don’t like the terms of conditions offered, negotiate better. Still don’t like them, walk away. Go down the road, look for alternatives and even better start something yourself.
    
    It’s the great lie that people are ‘forced’ to accept anything in NZ today – people have more employment choices available to them than in all of human history.
    
    Once this legislation comes in though there will be lots of forcing. Great lumps of coercion.
    
    The union political wing, the Labour Party, have just used to power of the state to force, coerce, one group of New Zealanders to give more to another group of New Zealanders.
    
    The latter being a large pool of voters for said Labour Party.
    
    If National did this in reverse you’d be up in arms screaming about them ‘helping John Key’s mates’.
    
    Labour are the greatest hypocrites in New Zealand and happy to use NZ law and the powers of the state to feather the nests of their political supporters – and at the expense of others.
    
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    October 27, 2022 9:38am
    - riffer
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      It is all about imbalance of power.
      
      And as for using NZ law and the powers of the state to feather the nests of political supporters every political party does that. Don’t be precious.
      
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      October 27, 2022 9:56am
      - alloytoo
        
        What imbalance of power?
        
        In this market skilled employees are calling the shots.
        
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        October 27, 2022 10:30am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Right allo.ytoo.
        In today’s market in NZ, its the employees who hold the power – so many jobs and not enough workers. Tere is the imbalance.
        Alternativly, 120,000 people on the work benefit too lazy to get off their arses & earn their own keep. It needs to be abolished.
        
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        October 27, 2022 10:49am
  - All_on_Red
    
    ‘ forced the New Zealand workforce to do what the minority (employers) wanted in their workplace relationships.’
    Cool Gaslighting dude.
    
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    October 27, 2022 9:42am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Employers are those who pay the wages, so should be able to expect that their paid staff do the job they are employed to do. Its not a power trip at all.
      
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      October 27, 2022 10:50am
      - artemisia
        
        Pay wages, pay the tax, deal with the hassles and take the risks.
        
        We have a small tradie firm. We don’t have employees any more. No payroll, no leave, no training, not much paperwork. Just invoices and expertise as needed from other small businesses.
        
        One of ours works for a medium sized tradie firm. They have started to offer employees to work on a subcontractor basis, no guaranteed hours, no restrictions on working elsewhere instead of or as well as. Voluntary. So far. Smart move. Expect more. And very few of the subbies in the 98% writing fail cohort will get much work in that model.
        
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        October 27, 2022 11:08am
  - David Garrett
    
    the Employment Contracts Act in the 1990s forced the New Zealand workforce to do what the minority (employers) wanted in their workplace relationships.
    
    Utter bullshit. What the ECA 1991 did was allow for agreements which fit individual workplaces and circumstances, not National Awards which meant engineers in Christchurch had to have the same terms and conditions as those in Auckland – where the cost of living was much higher.
    
    Something rarely mentioned is that is also gave every employee access to personal grievance procedures, and not just union members. It was a great piece of legislation which the Nats ought to have replaced after Labour repealed and replaced it with a much more union friendly
    Employment Relations Act.
    
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    October 27, 2022 9:48am
    - Tom Hunter
      
      …. which the Nats ought to have replaced after Labour repealed and replaced it with a much more union friendly Employment Relations Act.
      
      😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
      
      Going more to the right will not get National back into office.
      
      Key and English both understood which parts of the Clark government intiatives were cemented in, and which weren’t. And by reassuring the public on the things the had become part of the fabric, were able to win three elections, and be the largest party on the fourth.
      
      😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
      
      You are right. There were (and are) a substantial number of National MP’s who would have similar views to myself.
      
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      October 27, 2022 11:10am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        NZ employment has been quite well settled for the last 20 years across successive governments. This law disrupts what had been a workable consensus. So naturally National will repeal it.
        As a number of commenters have noted, the instincts of this Labour government are more left than Clark’s government.
        Key and English were smart in knowing where consensus lay. Luxon also understands this as well. One of the reasons why National is currently doing well.
        
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        October 27, 2022 11:45am
  - leoj
    
    Unionists are gutless.
    If you don’t like what your employer is offering, go elsewhere, but no, unionists are too gutless to go one-on-one with the boss and have to bring in the troops.
    Unionism is communism in slow motion.
    No government department should ever be allowed to be unionized.
    Lookin’ at you. education department and teachers.
    
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    October 27, 2022 10:27am
    - Nickc2
      
      The Ten Pound Cloth Cap Poms who emigrated here have a lot to answer for, they gave us Unions and the Trade Union Political Party (Labour). I wish they’d take this crap back to Pom Land.
      
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      October 27, 2022 1:20pm
  - Homas
    
    “There is no requirement for union membership.”
    
    In workplaces where unions hold sway, employees are subject to a “bargaining fee”.
    
    So, technically not a requirement to join the union, but you do have to fund the union.
    
    As an aside, I can’t help but wonder what would happen if any employee was faced with making mandatory contributions to National/ACT under their conditions of employment.
    
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    October 27, 2022 10:51am
  - artemisia
    
    Fair enough.
    
    I heard a business commentator on the wireless this morning say – capital goes where it’s wanted, and stays where it’s welcome.
    
    And some publicly listed companies are quietly setting up shop across the ditch, or further.
    
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    October 27, 2022 10:57am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Lol riffer, when a CEO who is responsible to his shareholders who have capitalised the business, there is only one group who should have power, and employees are not that group. Labour has freedom of association, so can move about where ever it sees fit. In case you haven’t got the memo, everything Unions have fought for over the last 100 years has been legislated. And in terms of power, a unionised employee has no power. The deadbeats who run the Union have a bit of power. The only role Unions have these days is the perpetuation of their parasitic (and utterly useless – see Andrew Little for one) management and the Labour Party.
    
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    October 27, 2022 11:59am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  We received a 5% pay rise this year plus a $2000 bonus, we do not usually get bonuses, we would not have received these remunerations if the vulgar unions were involved
  
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  October 27, 2022 11:22am
- Than
  
  Yep.
  
  Even just the very name of this bill is as Orwellian as you could get. These “Fair” Pay Agreements are as absolutely unfair as you could possibly imagine. One party is simply given total power to dictate to the other. That is not remotely fair by any definition of the term. National needs to get rid of this nasty, toxic bill the instant it is able to do so.
  
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  October 27, 2022 11:25am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    From the people who brought you ‘vaccine’
    
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    October 27, 2022 6:40pm
Yvette

Maybe someone this morning will quote portions of
Graham Adams: Three Waters – Voters don’t know the half of it
When the public grasps just how much power is being handed to iwi, opposition will skyrocket.
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/graham-adams-three-waters-voters-don-t-know-the-half-of-it

Like
“Waikato Awa [River] will always be part of the Kiingitanga. It is who we are…We live on the river; by the river and for the river. So too does every iwi in Aotearoa – kei a taatou te mana o te wai. I will say it again – Te Iwi Maaori owns the water.
“We are prepared to share our taonga for the wellbeing of all. But it must be done on our terms and our tikanga — that is our way.”
– Kiingi Tuheitia, told his influential audience at Ngaruawahia in August, at the 16th anniversary celebrations of his coronation

“… every iwi in Aotearoa – kei a taatou te mana o te wai” – Google, rightly or wrongly translates as: we have the power of the water

The article says –
While [3 Waters] prescribes 50:50 co-governance at the overarching strategic level of the four Regional Representative Groups, iwi will have a dominating influence all the way down through the subordinate levels of management.

While the mainstream media snoozes, independent blogs and news sites are pointing out that the principal mechanism for such comprehensive control are the Te Mana o Te Wai statements, buried deep within the Water Services Entities Bill.

And it is clear these statements – edicts that can be issued at will by iwi and hapū and are effectively binding on the water services entity in their region — have no limits or restrictions on what may be included in them.

… Kaipara’s former mayor Dr Jason Smith put it bluntly in mid-June in a tweet: “Whoever gets to write Te Mana o Te Wai statements gets control of water, land, planning rules and regulations, land use … Te Mana o Te Wai statements will cover every pipe, river, creek, farm pond or fresh water body.”

However, while damning Te Mana o Te Wai statements, as can be dictated by iwi at the Four Regional Entities level, this article fails to mention Chairperson Ms Pita Mahuta and her Maori Advisory Council which presides over Water Regulator Taumata Arowai, which in turn will preside over the afore mentioned Four Regional Entities, and the ability of these ēliter ēlite to issue Te Mana o Te Wai statements from their highest level, and gazump the whole fucking lot.

But the public hasn’t grasped just how much power is being handed to iwi, and opposition won’t skyrocket – they aren’t being told about it.
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October 27, 2022 8:05am
- G152
  
  Every time we have a flood that destroys infrastructure we bill the Maori King as he owns the water.
  Sounds fair
  
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  October 27, 2022 8:24am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Yeah, well, just watch him increase his charges commensurately.
    
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    October 27, 2022 9:04am
  - riffer
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Weird logic G152. That would be like charging the CEO of Waka Kotahi with manslaughter every time there is a fatal crash on the road.
    
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    October 27, 2022 9:15am
    - James Stephenson
      
      Not quite. It would be like charging the NZTA every time a car is damaged by the substandard condition of a road they are supposed to maintain, which is what is supposed to happen.
      
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      October 27, 2022 9:45am
    - graham
      
      Or like charging the owners of White Island when it decides to erupt. Utter madness, right?
      
      … oh, wait …
      
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      October 27, 2022 10:16am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Surely the correct title for the boss man of the waia kotanga is some version of Rangatira?
      
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      October 27, 2022 10:24pm
  - Cassandra
    
    Sue, not bill. His water caused the damage. But if he thinks he owns the water then he is daft.
    
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    October 27, 2022 9:55am
- Caine9
  
  It’s nonsense, of course. Maori don’t live on the water anymore than anywone else does. Most live in cities and towns, and the days of going to the river to fetch water went out with the invention of plumbing.
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:31am
  - Don Beckett
    
    ” the days of going to the river to fetch water went out with the invention of plumbing.”
    
    And, of course, plumbing was a Maori invention //
    
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    October 27, 2022 10:54am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      And Don, the Maori’s are entirely OK with that cultural appropriation.
      
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      October 27, 2022 12:00pm
      - Bloody Dago
        
        How about Maori appropriating the mechanism of civilisation for their own betterment? They will have pay for the use of its intellectual property which seems to be taken forgranted. Bring it on I say. Let’s send them an outrageous bill for 180 years of its rental to the same value of all treaty settlements would suffice.
        
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        October 27, 2022 3:37pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    Water is truly a global asset or at least divided between the Hemispheres limited by the equator by the ICTZ zone.
    In a nut shell Hot air rises and forms clouds until it condenses enough to form rain, Hail or Snow formed either by Trade winds, Westerlies, Polar Easterlies ( Look up Hadleys cells for further clarification)
    
    This is happening right around the World.
    
    So in this context, How does one indigenous group claim water rights formed by the circumference of the globe over another, Say Tahitians , Easter Islanders, South Americans, Aboriginals etc etc.
    
    An interesting side note, The “Horse” Latitudes was so named because they used throw Horses overboard due to lack of Rain, Approx 30′ South and North. This is where Airmass does not Rise but fall ( See Hadleys cells), Only warm air rising forms clouds/rain.
    
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    October 27, 2022 11:29am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      I can think of a few I’d like to throw overboard.
      
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      October 27, 2022 6:41pm
- I remember when
  
  I spent most of my teenage years living next to the local river.
  The local iwi/marae was about a kilometre upstream of where I lived.
  During hundreds of hours of walking and riding horses within the rivers stopbanks, I seldom encountered any Maori.
  At no time was I ever aware of the iwi taking any special interest in the river.
  I suspect that I also went fishing for eels more often than they did.
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:33am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Stop Co-Governance tells all about it. I have been posting links almost every day on GD. Julian Batchelor has stopped working to expose the 3 waters fraud.
  Once it is done, we can’t undo it without a fight. I suggest all interested in finding out what is really going on, to go to the Website and unpack it.
  https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:39am
  - Cassandra
    
    Sorry, red tick by mistake. Julian runs a good campaign. I’m a bit wary of the over-devout but he is certainly onto this.
    
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    October 27, 2022 10:00am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      It does not worry me, but it matters to some. Everyone is equal, even the strong religious nutbars. I don’t know why that gets connected with someone exposing the truth. Bit like picking off a scab.
      
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      October 27, 2022 2:26pm
  - Jethrod
    
    What is GD?
    
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    October 27, 2022 11:00am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      General Debate
      
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      October 27, 2022 11:11am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Look what has happened on the east coast in those doc huts, Iwi says they are not Māori enough, so they have been raised to the ground, who gave them the bloody authority to destroy property of the tax payers? This is a rotten disgrace, who will pay for what every they want it their place? Not the bloody Iwi
  
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  October 27, 2022 11:36am
  - leoj
    
    Where’s your mate Luxon, the maori apologist?
    I know, too frightened to speak out in case the media label him as racist.
    
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    October 27, 2022 2:25pm
  - kujira
    
    Yeah, and i bet that they all live in western houses with water and electricity – the very thing they want razed to the ground.
    I presume then that they are all moving back into pre-european huts? giving up cars, and internet moving back to the 19th century which according to some was much better!
    Luddites
    
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    October 27, 2022 2:29pm
  - Surely Knott
    
    Gravel Road posted the link in a comment below, to the Stuff Article about the people protesting the destruction of the huts and the photos shows a large portion of them appear to be Maori. They say it’s iwi who want removal of the huts, but the destruction and closures of our public spaces (eg huts and native forest tracks) is affecting everyone including Maori who hunt to feed their families . I guess if they are massively reducing farming they don’t want people turning to hunting their meat instead.
    And like the parliamentary protests Maori and European NZers are standing side by side to fight this garbage. But there are obviously a select few higher up pushing this divisive agenda. What I can say is that the Wildlands UN programme calls for core zones of forests to be closed to humans, surrounded by a buffer zone, connected by wildlinks. Certanly removing infrastructure is one way to remove people from the centre of the forest. In the Waitakere Ranges Regional park the remote walks in the centre of the forest tracks have been permanently closed and a large single loop walk track is being upgraded around the outside.
    
    http://www.agenda21course.com/lesson-3-wildlands-project/
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/bay-of-plenty/300720859/hundreds-gather-in-thoe-country-to-protest-desecration-of-back-country-huts
    
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    October 27, 2022 5:09pm
- MiddleclassTrash
  
  My Anglo-Saxon/Norse cultural practice is to sail overseas, appropriate lands, farm, and try ensure no-one does the same to us. We’ve been doing it since the 4th century.
  
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  October 27, 2022 3:43pm
iMP

What the appallingly low literacy/numeracy rates in decide 1 schools means is, that almost all decide 1 students in New Zealand will fail NCEA as numeracy/literacy is compulsory to pass, any other achievements are irrelevant.

Thus, the new Labour curriculum requirement will automatically exclude most Decile 1 kiwis from any kind of educational achievement.

Pigeons home to roost.
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October 27, 2022 8:09am
- hullkiwi
  
  Not only educational achievement, what about life opportunities/choices after formal education is over?
  
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  October 27, 2022 8:12am
- iMP
  
  Deciles go in January 2023, replaced by an Equity Index (how many “ disadvantaged” kids are in your school) which is really just an expanded Decile system.
  
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  October 27, 2022 8:13am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Another fix when it is not broken?
    
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    October 27, 2022 9:45am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Clearly some schools are not up to scratch.
  
  In reality, these schools are not employing teachers who can deliver the requisite number of hours and core competencies required for a child to master the basics of reading, writing and numeracy.
  
  I had assumed that each school delivered the curriculum/year completely; but as a recent survey showed that is not the case. In some schools pupils spend less than 1 hour/week on learning maths.
  
  By and large, our Primary school teachers are not competent to deliver the maths curriculum to their pupils.
  
  Evidence from entry into initial teacher education suggests that a majority of
  primary teacher candidates cannot answer mathematics questions appropriate for curriculum
  Level 4. More recent research indicates a persistence of this problem, particularly in teaching
  ‘mathematics for numeracy’ in the New Zealand primary school classroom.
  
  https://www.royalsociety.org.nz/what-we-do/our-expert-advice/all-expert-advice-papers/pangarau-mathematics-and-tauanga-statistics-in-aotearoa-new-zealand/
  
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  October 27, 2022 8:37am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Primary teachers are predominantly female. Females do not do well in maths. Join the dots.
    
    Of course, the exceptions prove the rule. Take a bow, Maggy.
    
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    October 27, 2022 6:47pm
- Sacha
  
  Society is being programmed to doom a large percentage of the population to peasant status. When in the future they realise how they’ve been duped, the peasants will revolt.
  Will it take 2 or 3 generations?
  Or will it be next year?
  
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  October 27, 2022 8:40am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    I grew up in the 50s and 60s. I and my cohorts truly won first prize in the lottery of life. At that NZ had one of the highest standards of living in the world. I grew up in a new private housing area. All the Dads helped their neighbours with fences driveways etc. Every house had a garage and a new or near car. I had a first class education and I and my cohorts left school able to read write and do maths very well. Some of us went to Uni some into trades and over the years catching up we all did well in our lives.
    I say there is no reason why this should not be repeated expect that we have a political class who lack the capacity capability and will to make it happen.
    
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    October 27, 2022 9:34am
    - rouppe
      
      It was truly the privileged that had new or near new cars in the 50’s and 60’s. Wasn’t that the time where you had to acquire an import licence from the government in order to get a new car, because of the flow of foreign exchange? And cars were stupidly expensive.
      
      My first car was a shit-heap Hillman Hunter in 1985. I had 3 headlight switches melt as I was driving between Wellington and Rotorua, and resorted to using household light switches.
      
      It was only the late 80’s when the used import market was opened up and people could get half decent Japanese imports, albeit the first ones rusted out pretty quickly. My Mitsubishi Tredia was light years ahead of the Hunter…
      
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      October 27, 2022 10:00am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Lucas- Prince of Darkness.
        Corporate Motto is ‘Get home before dark’
        
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        October 27, 2022 11:20am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        The Grunter!
        
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        October 27, 2022 6:49pm
- Random T Person
  
  My shildren will not be among the failures…and the low levels of performance I see as an advantage for them, becuase they will be streets ahead and therefore enjoy a competitive advantage. They are getting this advantage by having a love of reading and learning built into their childhood, independent of school (but with school as a handy complement).
  Sure poor schooling and literacy is bad on a macro level. On a micro level, you can turn it to your advantage.
  We did this in South Africa after whiteys were forbidden from holding various positions. We just became consultants, ‘invisibly’ doing the work for the highly salaried useless who took the credit, and charging handsomely for it. Very bad for the economy, very good reciprocal value for the parties involved.
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:01am
- Paulus
  
  They will allow anybody with Maori connections to be exempted anyway.
  
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  October 27, 2022 10:50am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Go to Erica Stanfords fb page where she questioned the associate minister about these numbers, it was pathetic, in the end Tinetti tried to say Erica’s questions were racist, go look, she has the questions on her fb page, worth a watch
  
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  October 27, 2022 11:40am
hullkiwi

Will Mahuta and MFAT work as hard to get back the body of a fallen Kiwi as the US State Department did to get back the body of a US citizen who died fighting in Ukraine?

Ps both men died in the same attack.
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October 27, 2022 8:10am
- kowtow
  
  I don’t get this media pardy infatuation with a “social influencer” pair . Whatever the hell a social influencer is .
  
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  October 27, 2022 8:32am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    It’s the media shill David Fisher looking for a new drum to bang now that the covid circus has been exposed for the bullshit it always was. He’s been one of the biggest media whores on the topic. A pathetic excuse for a journalist.
    
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    October 27, 2022 8:40am
  - kujira
    
    Yeah, and some “expert” brings up they were EUROPEAN New Zealanders…..why ??? Would it matter if they were some other type of New Zealander???
    
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    October 27, 2022 2:37pm
O C Smith

Spinoff headline “Māori nurses earn 25% less. And this government won’t even talk about it” .. Flipped around means others are earning 33.33% more.
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October 27, 2022 8:11am
- Yvette
  
  Whatever way you cut it, the difference is constant, so 25% can not equal 33.33%
  So if you have a silly answer, you should check if the question is as silly :o)
  
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  October 27, 2022 8:42am
  - Prince
    
    ? Not sure what you are saying. If A earns $100 and B $75, then B earns 25% less than A, and A earns 33% more than B.
    
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    October 27, 2022 9:17am
    - Yvette
      
      Prince – In your example, the constant is of course $25, either way it is said.
      The difference, however, would be that Winston might say “Māori nurses earn 25% less” but Ardern may say “Others are earning 33.33% more than Maori”
      
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      October 27, 2022 10:36am
  - Opie
    
    I’ll bite. This would actually be a good exam question if they still teach maths?
    
    If person A earns $60k and person B earns $80k…
    
    Person A earns 25% less than B: 80 x .75 = 60.
    
    Person B earns 33.33% more than A: 60 x 1.3333 = 80 (79.998 to be exact)
    
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    October 27, 2022 9:39am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Mark up vs margin. Has caught out many a young businessperson.
      
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      October 27, 2022 6:51pm
- Opie
  
  Maybe the non Maori work harder/longer?
  
  Maybe the non Maoris did further training and are more likely to hold positions of further responsibility including management, skewing the average?
  
  Maybe it’s because the best nurses get poached out of the public system into private for better pay and working conditions.
  
  I can’t imagine a screeching article like this will give any context behind the headline.
  
  Maybe I just don’t give a shit.
  
  What’s next, compulsory promotion of maoris to management/higher paying positions? A higher pay rate for maoris? We know how this ends up.
  
  Initially I thought it might be good that even the spinoff has turned on the government but no, it’s because they are not doing socialism hard enough. We need more socialism.
  
  I earn more than loads of people (and less than loads of others as well). Is it because of the colour of my skin? Or my trade, my degree and 25 years experience in my field?
  
  As always, you reap what you sow.
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:28am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    You are racist!//
    
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    October 27, 2022 10:00am
    - Opie
      
      I wasn’t, but I am now.
      
      Being told that my ideas were irrelevant because of the colour of my skin kind of pushed me over…
      
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      October 27, 2022 10:25am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Naughty boy, I see what you did there.
        
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        October 27, 2022 2:28pm
  - pdm
    
    A couple of very good Maori Nurses on my ward when I had about a week in hospital a year or so ago. More Filipino’s though who were also very good.
    
    Pay differences (if there were any) did not seem to be an issue at all.
    
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    October 27, 2022 10:19am
  - Paulus
    
    You only get more pay as a member of the Mahuta Clan anyway, alongwith the perks that go with the job.
    
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    October 27, 2022 10:52am
  - cmm
    
    Of course the big question is the WHY.
    
    Why are Maori nurse providing 25% less value than other nurses?
    
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    October 27, 2022 11:11am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Your maths is correct, despite Yvette and her uptickers – but so what? Shouldn’t we be discussing whether it is in fact the case that Maori nurses earn less than others, and what if anything should be done about it?
  
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  October 27, 2022 10:11am
  - alloytoo
    
    Thing is, the information given is essentially useless.
    
    Without knowing the relevant qualifications, locations, employers of the nurses we can’t even begin to evaluate the situation.
    
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    October 27, 2022 10:37am
  - Opie
    
    Why do we need to base every problem on race?
    
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    October 27, 2022 11:21am
cmm

So whacking cyclists seems to be the new rage on Tiktok.

Youths in stolen cars deliberately hitting cyclists.
Perhaps the Greenies will start seeing these scrotes as crims and not just poor, misunderstood people trying to liberate themselves from colonialism.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/130291071/they-didnt-slow-down-they-didnt-stop-youths-in-stolen-cars-opening-doors-deliberately-hitting-cyclists
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October 27, 2022 8:12am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Cue the ‘we must have separated cycleways’ lobby to turn this to their advantage.
  
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  October 27, 2022 8:26am
- All_on_Red
  
  In that article they state there has been 400 car thefts throughout Canterbury in August alone.
  That’s a problem of epic proportions and they seem powerless to stop it.
  
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  October 27, 2022 8:37am
  - cmm
    
    Zero EVs stolen. Scrotes have some taste.
    
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    October 27, 2022 8:39am
    - MCōs
      
      Older cars are easier to steal, I’m picking.
      
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      October 27, 2022 8:56am
  - Liberty
    
    “Frustrated frontline cops say a change in the police’s pursuit policy nearly two years ago has left them largely powerless to stop children once they’re behind the wheel.”
    
    Frontline cops should show some fortitude. Ignore the “Be kind” to the little shits. They might get a rollicking from the current inept Police Minister. In the eyes of the public, They will be heroes.
    
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    October 27, 2022 11:25am
- kowtow
  
  Yep colonialism and the price of bread has literally forced these little fuckers to try to kill cyclists.
  
  But on a very serious note ,on the one hand “progressives” want everyone on bikes ( to save the planet) but the same people have made society really dangerous by refusing to send criminals to prison , by fueling drug culture , by destroying work ethic by making constant excuses for these thugs.
  
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  October 27, 2022 8:38am
- hullkiwi
  
  I have mixed emotions over this. I cannot condone dangerous behaviour towards others. However, wherever live the MAM/(W)iL (middle aged men/women in lycra mob bring it upon themselves. Dangerous cycling practises on gravel/potholed is all too common.
  
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  October 27, 2022 8:46am
- Random T Person
  
  I was once shot by a paintball from a carload of scrotes. Hit me in the thigh, and I’d already ridden 140km at that point so it really hurt on a tender leg. Those scrotes were in Fourways, South Africa. The impotent rage at not being able to do anything about it was the worst part, seeing this laughing piece of shit in a Nissan Sentra and no way of touching him.
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:03am
  - cmm
    
    Fourways? You’re lucky you left with your life!
    When I lives in Jhb in the 1980s, 4 ways and the cross roads between Alex and Sandton were the two hottest carjacking hot spots in the whole of SA.
    
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    October 27, 2022 9:57am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Good point cmm.
  
  Maybe there’s an underlying, oppressive class structure in aotearoa’s cycling community, where it’s okay to belt certain cyclists who can afford certain types of Lycra…?
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:41am
- Harry Knuts
  
  The cross-over to physically injuring others has now happened. Yoof got bored with just stealing cars and the odd ram-raid/burglary. They are now engaging in purposely injuring the public.
  Perhaps Cuddles wants to re-think his stance on hugs instead of consequences?
  The public prefer real consequences. We prefer the toe-rags to be removed from society for a while and little attitude re-adjustment in the form of detention in a locked down facility. And in the facility no internet, no phones, no technology just good ole basic school education and get them ready for work in society. A bit of reprogramming these immature minds.
  
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  October 27, 2022 11:52am
Tony Stuart

I’m rapidly warming to new Speaker Adrian Rurawhe. There’s none of the histrionics that were a feature of Trevor Mallard’s tenure, I doubt he has a visceral hatred of any National or Act MP as Mallard did, and he is actually holding Ministers to account.

Speaking on Ministers being held to account and being required to withdraw and apologise for accusing Erica Stanford of racism, check out this example from Question Time yesterday:

https://vimeo.com/764002885

Accusing Erica Stanford of race-baiting is also wrong. Stanford has worked tirelessly over the last couple of years on behalf of migrants and their families from a wide variety of countries, races and cultures, without fear or favour. Mrs Stanford is possibly the least likely MP in the entire House to engage in race-baiting, whereas Labour’s Ministers are quick to make such accusations when held to account.
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October 27, 2022 8:19am
- Tricati
  
  Lets hope Speaker Adrian Rurawhe continues the way he has started, and when Ardern ‘refutes the premise’ of the question, he instructs her to answer correctly.
  Will be a good watch in election year.
  Also very impressed how Erica Stanford prepares herself for question time. Clearly does her homework and not into histrionics, and holds Labour to account
  
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  October 27, 2022 8:37am
  - pdm
    
    If only he could reduce the number of `patsy’ questions – they are a blight on Question Time and now the only reson I don’t watch.
    
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    October 27, 2022 10:22am
- slightlyrighty
  
  I’m pleased Tinetti is in parliament. She would do so much more damage as a teacher in front of a class!
  
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  October 27, 2022 8:40am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    As a List MP, she’s unlikely to be in Parliament much longer. There will be a real shit-fight for list placings, and as a relatively junior Minister, Jan Tinetti’s chances of getting a winnable list spot (on current polling) won’t be high.
    
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    October 27, 2022 9:18am
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      Actually, depending on how much Helen White (arguably one of the best of Labour’s new MPs (yes, I know that’s not saying much) in 2020) wants to stay in Parlt, it could make the fight in Auckland Central a bit more interesting.
      
      If White can’t obtain a decent list placing and she does stand in Auckland Central, she could potentially campaign against Chloe on actual issues rather than virtue signaling emotional fluff…
      
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      October 27, 2022 9:52am
      - RoboRob
        
        She might do better if she did campaing on virtue signalling. It seems to work well for Chloe.
        
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        October 27, 2022 10:47am
  - I remember when
    
    slightlyrighty:
    She was a principal so her time in front of a class was probably zero or very small.
    
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    October 27, 2022 9:52am
  - Paulus
    
    Tinetti is a teacher and was considered to be a good Principal of a lowest decile school.
    As a Labour list she may be lucky to get a seat on current polls.
    
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    October 27, 2022 10:58am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Oh well. Back to the coalface.
      
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      October 27, 2022 6:55pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    She was a bloody principal
    
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    October 27, 2022 12:10pm
    - Dougal10
      
      Mind you so was Davis , the bar isn’t very high.
      
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      October 27, 2022 12:46pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  ‘holding Ministers to account’
  Is that why Jaspinda is avoiding Parliament?
  Adrian Rurawhe might put her on the spot and ask for an explanation of her lies. She will have no answer because the question is not scripted, and the spinners not able to give her an answer.
  It’s all coming back to her.
  
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  October 27, 2022 10:11am
- Opie
  
  That’s like watching an alternate reality after mallard. Rurawhe was almost acting with neutrality for the greater good of the country.
  
  Imagine how different things would be if mallard was never the speaker.
  
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  October 27, 2022 10:22am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Neutrality will certainly put Labour in their place and not before time.
    The shit they have got away with in the last 5 years is incredible. Almost like it was rehearsed.
    
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    October 27, 2022 2:31pm
- Harry Knuts
  
  It’s all Labour have now – just yell out “racism.. racist”
  It’s tiring.
  
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  October 27, 2022 11:54am
NeverMindTheBollocks

So apparently it’s tikanga to let beached whales decompose entirely on the sands, rather than burying the body as bio waste.

I can’t wait for a big blue to wash up at St Helliers.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/300720333/you-dont-throw-tangaroas-koha-back-burial-of-beached-whales-at-odds-with-tikanga
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October 27, 2022 8:23am
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  If Maori science is that stranded whales are gifts from a god of the sea, can’t be buried, and also every part of the whale belongs to Maori to do is as they wish (stated in the article) then is shows how backwards the treatment of the carcass is as well as another power-play based on racial privelige.
  Of course the rotting carcass is a bio hazard, and affects use of the beach, and attracts sharks, etc.
  
  Maori science is going to drive us backwards, if we also have to pretend that wave action/tide is the breath of an undersea god and ignore wind action or moon cycles (and forecasting thereof).
  
  As another point in how this is becoming parody, a mate who is a manager in the public service visited, and he had previously told me of waiata and karakia before meetings (which we all know well about now): the latest is a chart on the wall which has phases related to the moon and ‘high and low energy’ periods.
  This chart is consulted as the phases affect when they book meetings or decisions/deadlines by. ….This is the latest “Maori science” creeping in. We both admitted that it is hard to put a job on the line and push back against this which-doctor bullshit.
  –This is happening folks!
  Maori science & co-governance is a millstone being clamped around the neck of the public sector which is going to create inefficiencies, waste, overlapping spans of control and worse outcomes for NZ.
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:21am
  - cmm
    
    Time to charge said Maori with illegally discharging effluent for allowing the whale to rot on the beach.
    
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    October 27, 2022 11:13am
    - zulumonster
      
      Considering they towed it a fair way to Simpson’s Beach first that would be a fair charge. Totally not going to happen of course.
      
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      October 27, 2022 1:22pm
  - Liberty
    
    “Stranded whales are gifts from a god of the sea, can’t be buried”
    What piffle. The reasons why a whale was not buried.
    Food
    They didn’t have a mechanical digger.
    They had more important jobs. Such as finding food
    A dead whale would have attracted Food. Fish, Birds
    Why bother? How often did a whale die within smell range of the Pa.
    
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    October 27, 2022 11:55am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING

Elon Musk to finally settle on the purchase of Twitter this Friday.
Tells employees they are welcome to work from home just not for Twitter.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1585341984679469056
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October 27, 2022 8:35am
- Frank the tank
  
  The best part of that whole thread was Gal Gadot.
  
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  October 27, 2022 8:43am
- Maggie Pie
  
  And only just noticed Elon has changed his bio to…..
  
  “Chief Twit”
  
  https://twitter.com/elonmusk
  
  LOL!! 😀 😀 😀
  
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  October 27, 2022 8:50am
- ClanMcleod
  
  El Gato Malo is on point on the subject today.
  https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/coming-friday
  
  Worth a read.
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:15am
- RoboRob
  
  Great turn of phrase 🙂
  
  As a business owner he can choose where he wants his employees to work, if they don’t like it they can move on. This would also have the benefit of likely removing a large pool of ‘slackers’ and perhaps extremists from his workforce. The previous twitter owner (a lefty) has said that the organisation has become too ‘progressive’.
  
  Re Elon.
  I am stunned by the hatred from the left towards Elon. When Tesla first came on the scene he was (rightly) lauded by the enviro / left. However over time he has aquired the hatred of many on the left. The man provides free interent to the Ukraine then, shock horror, suggests working towards peace. Suddenly he’s pro Russian. He asks the US military to help fund the internet services he currently provides for free, and he is pillaried as anti Ukraine.
  
  I don’t think he was particularly right wing to begin with but you can see him moving further and further right in response to the level of crazy he gets from the left.
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:27am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    As a once staunch, working class, cloth cap lefty, I can couch for what you say.
    What was once a genuine working class movement has turned into a cult of ideological nut jobs. Zero understanding of reality. They have a very rude awakening coming to them.
    
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    October 27, 2022 10:23am
    - RoboRob
      
      I grew up in Jim Anderton land, so I know exactly where you ca coming from. It’s amazing to see the base of the left slowly move from the working class to the wealthy, academics and youth.
      
      Look at the US, the Reps use to be the party of big business and the Dems were for the little guy. Now the Reps are the party for the working class (or rednecks / deplorables as per Hillary) and slowly picking up the Latino and Black vote from the Dems. The Dems have the wealthy vote in California and Silicon Vally with the backing of hollywood and big tech.
      
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      October 27, 2022 10:44am
- Harry Knuts
  
  It’s hard not to like Musk.
  Twitter must be full of entitled millennials crying into their soy latte while shuffling around in the vegan leather jesus sandals.
  
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  October 27, 2022 11:56am
ClanMcleod

Shane Jones has written a superb piece in today’s Herald. It’s paywalled but there are ways to bypass that. Or probably worth paying just to read this.

A couple of excerpts.

As Waka Kotahi struggles to meet the repair bills, potholes grow larger by the week, an epitome for the failings of this Government: An inability to deliver core services.

Community service sentences are wiped out while teenage ram-raids proliferate. Hospital services fail while Te Whatu Ora fiddles with organisational charts. Firms lose trained staff while the head of Te Pūkenga remains disconnected from the limbs. Numeracy and literacy standards plummet while Shakespeare is cancelled.

Inevitably, the chinstrap penguins who beat the political drum of climate doom would have us change our consumption patterns. No matter that global demand for food is slated to increase by 70 per cent over the next three decades.

Reducing the amount of food produced either here or overseas is not an option. New Zealand is in a sweet spot to fill the global plate and there will be no political consensus for shrinking our food exports.

I don’t have much idea about Jones and what he stands for, but his comments here are absolutely on point. He’s describing how the government led by Ardern and overly influenced by the Greens and the Maori Party.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/shane-jones-government-is-chasing-its-ideological-tail/WCZOGBOLK5EVXPZ2OLZCRETNJ4/
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October 27, 2022 8:38am
- surfing
  
  Shane and Winston must be twins. They make nice promises before an election, but, these completely evaporate once in power.
  
  Remember Shane prancing around NZ just like the pied piper. That person will be back if they somehow weasel their way back into power.
  
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  October 27, 2022 8:44am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Jones has long been viewed as the natural successor to Peters. Unfortunately, although he can talk the talk, Jones isn’t so good at walking the walk. He’s never won an electorate contest, rumours of his rather tepid work ethic seem not to be inaccurate, and unless he or Peters wins a seat, NZF is still toast.
    
    He also has the significant disadvantage this time around of not having a multi-billion dollar slush fund to splash around.
    
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    October 27, 2022 9:23am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Possibly, that’s why I specified that I don’t know much about him. But what he wrote is absolutely nailed on and to the point.
    
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    October 27, 2022 10:20am
    - surfing
      
      Yes, I agree it is an excellent opinion piece. Just that he would never express these views after winning an election.
      
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      October 27, 2022 1:44pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Hypocrite is both their middle names
    
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    October 27, 2022 12:12pm
- I remember when
  
  Shane Jones says the government should be doing better and have done better.
  When considering their apparent abilities, shouldn’t both Winston Peters and Shane Jones have done better themselves.
  How do we tie this in with a vote for NZ First.
  
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  October 27, 2022 8:52am
- Colville
  
  The $3,000,000,000 Shame Jones was given by Labour to buy votes could have fixed a lot of pot holes if it had been used correctly instead of for bribes.
  
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  October 27, 2022 8:53am
- septic skeptic
  
  I’m confident that having Jones supping at the trough will produce thousands of dollars of profits, dozens of extra jobs and cost mere billions.
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:07am
- MCōs
  
  These guys have all the answers once they’re kicked out of power.
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:15am
- kowtow
  
  Anything I see Jones has to say I just turn off based on his really really shit record .
  
  From shower heads to party jumping and huge electoral bribes at our cost to literally buy the Labour party in the 2017 GE .
  
  But as to Labour chasing its tail , Jonsey seemed most interested in his snake ……..and charging us for it .
  
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  October 27, 2022 11:05am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Joel Maxwell is the gift that keeps on giving. He thinks Maori should get super earlier than other races, due to their much smaller proportion in getting to 90. Leaving aside his illogic (super kicks in at 65, Joel), his argument completely ignores the impact of personal life choices on longevity. It’s hard to see those nice club boys reaching much over 65, for example.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/300718296/what-mori-retirement-looks-like-only-one-in-1000-mori-reaching-90
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October 27, 2022 8:38am
- MCōs
  
  There’s a Māori cemetery in Mangere Bridge.
  I’ve looked at quite a number of the headstones and there’s few people there who made it even to sixty five.
  Mind you a lot of them are from quite some time ago.
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:22am
- NothingLeft
  
  They (on average) mature younger and don’t live as long, but neither do they pay as much tax.
  
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  October 27, 2022 11:00am
- Matt Long
  
  Would it be reasonable to tie Maori Super to their average tax paid minus benefits already paid? I think not, how about we get off the racist fascist track and treat people according to their needs.
  
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  October 27, 2022 11:09am
  - NothingLeft
    
    From those according to their abilities to those according to their needs. The childishly insane Communist/Socialist mantra that ignores basic human nature and the lazy and entitled manner in which most people will cheerfully exploit and demand others sacrifices to make their own lifes easier if they can get away with it, as evidenced by a trail of failed states that have tried it.
    
    People choose how they live their adult life – as productive hard working tax payers contributing to the betterment of NZ. Or not. If you don’t have a system that demands effort for any reward then society will within a generation or two lose it’s work ethic and your country will fall to the demands of the indolent.
    
    With very few exceptions adults, regardless of background, can find work, those that could but choose not to should not be pandered to. Welfare should only ever be an unattractive last resort for adults who truly can’t survive any other way, and it should come with a duty to give back to the community in some way (there are always some jobs that welfare dependent could do), at the barest minimum it should require increased parenting effort – their kids should be well nurtured star pupils given the free time their parents have.
    
    So how about some performance-bonus component based aspect to welfare recipients. More money for value they deliver to the community using the luxury of the time they have available.
    
    Retirement for able bodied people is a luxury that we can not afford to fund given extended lifespans and aging population. If you want to retire then make sure you have saved enough money up to do so, because it is hugely unfair to ask younger people to pay for extended end-of-life holidays they will never receive – a reality being bought forward by Labour’s regressive reign. Stealing from struggling young to give to comfortable elderly is rotten.
    
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    October 27, 2022 5:43pm
Libertarians are right

Todays Stuff Cartoon is the most vomit inducing “Jacinda is wonderful” crap they have ever produced. Mark Winter should never be allowed to draw another cartoon for Stuff but will probably become their go-to.
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October 27, 2022 8:43am
- riffer
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Yawn.
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:19am
- Colville
  
  Hopefully Stuff will go the way of the Dodo soon and the problem will be solved.
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:20am
  - riffer
    
    Ridiculous statement. There is no problem. You simply don’t agree with it. What you suggest is the kind of nonsense autocratic societies advocate.
    
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    October 27, 2022 9:59am
    - Colville
      
      A media site propped up with government funding on condition that they support a separatist agenda is definetly a problem.
      Or I think so anyway.
      There is an election in a while and it will be a key divider between the parties so let’s see who wins.
      
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      October 27, 2022 10:41am
      - riffer
        
        Pretty sure its a requirement of the Public Interest Journalism fund that an article states where it was funded by it.
        
        Are you suggesting that this cartoon was paid for through the PIJ Fund?
        
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        October 27, 2022 11:01am
      - Matt Long
        
        A clever news org doesn’t bite the hand that feeds it.
        
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        October 27, 2022 11:11am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      Democracies need fair and unbiased media to function. Stuff is utterly biased and is, to quote you: “the kind of nonsense autocratic societies advocate”. That’s the problem here. You don’t see a problem because you agree with it.
      
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      October 27, 2022 10:56am
      - riffer
        
        All media are biased to a certain extent. If you want to remove Stuff and RNZ you need to remove Newstalk ZB as well.
        
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        October 27, 2022 11:02am
      - kowtow
        
        “Single source of truth”
        
        ‘Jessica , then Tova”.
        
        12 1
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        October 27, 2022 11:46am
      - NothingLeft
        
        @Riffer, no. We simply need to stop taxpayer funding of the far-left NZ legacy media monoculture that only represents the views of a tiny elitist minority of NZers and act as propagandists for left wing governments, refusing to hold them to account.
        
        Democracies can’t survive without a combative 4th estate to hold governments feet to the fire and provide a way for politicians from across the spectrum to connect with voters on a level playing field.
        
        So let these far-left media organisations pay their own way through advertising or subscriptions or whatever, the market can decide if they are worth their cost, and end all their government subsidies (both direct and sneakily laundered via vast unnecessary govt advertising spend).
        
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        October 27, 2022 6:26pm
- RoboRob
  
  Would like to look, just to see how bad it is but I have decided to hasten Stuffs demise by withdrawing my clicks.
  
  Oh for the days when quality cartoonists made excellent saterical comments on current events, usually poking fun at the current government. Now we just have constant attacks on the opposition.
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:35am
  - Ghost
    
    It’s not bad, it’s lame but really nothing like described above, just a penguin waiting for a selfie with the pm.
    
    3 8
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    October 27, 2022 9:49am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      A penguin who’s having anxiety over not stuffing up their once in a lifetime opportunity of meeting Jacinda. Much more than what you said:
      
      “Pat practised for hours to make sure he wouldn’t stuff it up if he got the chance to meet Jacinda on her visit to Antarctica”
      
      Also, I don’t actually think he should be cancelled, he would do well working for Fraser House. Just that his bias makes him unsuited for a job holding Government to account.
      
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      October 27, 2022 11:03am
  - riffer
    
    And this is exactly how it should be.
    
    Don’t try and cancel stuff because you don’t agree with it. Just don’t follow it.
    
    4 19
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    October 27, 2022 9:59am
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      I have to keep an eye on the latest Lefty lunacy, not because I want to interfere in their lives but because they want to control mine. Vile scum that they are.
      
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      October 27, 2022 10:58am
      - riffer
        
        Alan, you’re just being an asshole. Name calling is for mugs. By all means debate the issue, but when you start offering abuse it ruins the discussion.
        
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        October 27, 2022 11:03am
      - Alan Wilkinson
        
        @riffer, no, I have no reason to tolerate your control freaks continually pissing me off.
        
        10 0
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        October 27, 2022 11:56am
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        Riffer, thanks for being a pin-up for hypocrisy.
        
        ..”asshole. Name calling is for mugs.”
        
        13 0
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        October 27, 2022 1:22pm
      - zulumonster
        
        riffer says “Alan, you’re just being an asshole. Name calling is for mugs. ” … funny guy.
        
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        October 27, 2022 2:04pm
      - Observer of Life
        
        “ Alan, you’re just being an asshole. Name calling is for mugs.”…. Ahhhhh “asshole” … “name calling”. 😆
        
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        October 27, 2022 2:15pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      I don’t follow it.
      But it would be nice if I didn’t have to subsidise it.
      
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      October 27, 2022 11:00am
  - Paulus
    
    More taxpayers money for the so called media received perhaps, or wanted. ?
    
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    October 27, 2022 11:03am
I remember when

Should the government have asked us what price we were prepared to pay for their covid payouts.
Is that a reasonable question given the amount of turmoil on the industrial front at present.
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October 27, 2022 8:44am
- RoboRob
  
  Strikes went from close to zero to max the moment Labour came in, well before covid. One of labours many achievements.
  
  I would be more concerned with the educational and health outcomes due to their covid policies. I suspect the high level of school truancy is rather closely linked to the current youth crime wave.
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:32am
  - Paulus
    
    Somebody once said
    “No Strikes on my Watch”
    I wonder who that was ?
    
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    October 27, 2022 11:04am
Frank the tank

Would Jacinda care if the couple stuck in Iran were brown, ugly, poor and not Instagram influencers?

Asking for a friend.
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October 27, 2022 8:49am
- Tony Stuart
  
  And is Topher Richwhite the most perfect name for an Instagram influencer?
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:26am
  - MCōs
    
    Helps that he young, good looking and knows what he’s doing.
    Bit of bad luck for those people they were Iran when the shit hit the fan.
    
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    October 27, 2022 9:44am
    - Frank the tank
      
      Why you would try to enter Iran complete with loads of electronic devices, a banned vehicle and then dress like you are going to a Vegas pool party defies logic.
      
      Lucky they didn’t make the Darwin awards this year.
      
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      October 27, 2022 10:05am
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      Bad luck when the clowns were warned not to go????
      
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      October 27, 2022 10:59am
  - Paulus
    
    Never heard of him – bags of Richwhite money though to bum round the world and try and get into a country without the right papers and wonder what happen so call Mahuta/Ardern.
    Silly entitled arses.
    
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    October 27, 2022 11:06am
- MCōs
  
  Don’t go
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:36am
- Harry Knuts
  
  It’s reported they sought advice from another traveler not to travel to Iran. MFAT says it’s on their no-go list.
  I could only describe these 2 as morons that deserve the Darwin Award for 2022.
  If they have cost taxpayers any money for their rescue, then they should be asked to pay back the taxpayer. They knew exactly what they were getting themselves into and defied common sense all for clicks on Instagram.
  
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  October 27, 2022 12:01pm
- kevn
  
  @Frank…. Having a Dad with very deep pockets would have made ‘all’ the difference.
  
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  October 27, 2022 12:35pm
Warren

New population figures show a drastic change on where New Zealander’s are living Economist Brad Olsen says.
While New Zealander’s population growth hardly budged in newly-released data where Kiwis are living is changing.
Figures from Stats NZ released Tuesday showed the national population growth down to 0.2% a year.
When yearly population figures was the lowest it had been since the 1980s and was down on last years 0.4% figures
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2022/10/new-population-figures-show-a-drastic-change-in-where-new-zealanders-are-living-economist-brad-olsen-says.html
I might be wrong here but does this mean more New Zealander’s are leaving than what is coming in and I just wonder how many are leaving because of this rotten, corrupt Government that is dividing New Zealand.
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October 27, 2022 8:49am
- I remember when
  
  New population figures show a drastic change on where New Zealander’s are living.
  Overseas.
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:17am
Scooter

According to Grant Robertson (ie 40%increase in health spending) as long as you are increasing spending or in other words throwing money at something, then it’s all good and we don’t need to look at the outcomes or issues of wait times, lack of staff etc or whether that money is well spent and getting results.
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October 27, 2022 8:51am
- Tricati
  
  When Robertson spouts his 40% increase in health funding nonsense, where is the obvious question, that being – Where are the results for the additional spend, and where has it been spent.
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:40am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Strange our journalists don’t think to ask that.
    
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    October 27, 2022 11:00am
- Harry Knuts
  
  40% increase in health spending
  Perhaps this spend relates soley to the cost of admin for the reforms, ie: changing the name costs.
  As health staff would argue where?
  Would love to see the spreadsheet detailing where this spend has gone and what are the real outcomes.
  
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  October 27, 2022 12:05pm
Gravelroad

https://www.stuff.co.nz/bay-of-plenty/300720859/hundreds-gather-in-thoe-country-to-protest-desecration-of-back-country-huts
Looks like another river of filth coming down.
Good on them – some of those protesting don’t hold back!
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October 27, 2022 8:56am
- Gravelroad
  
  I have been in a few back country huts but never realised they were a symbol of colonial oppression.
  I will look more closely next time to see if I can find some evidence to back up this claim.
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:32am
Maggy Wassilieff

Have ram-raiders arrived in Mt Albert?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/10/large-police-presence-outside-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-s-mt-albert-office.html
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October 27, 2022 9:05am
- Warren
  
  The Police, Cuddles the Police Commissioner and many others work for Jacinda Ardern our Prime Minister first and then the Public, they are a disgrace to the Uniform they wear.
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:28am
- riffer
  
  Funny, I can recall how apoplectic many were here the last time a National MP’s office was attacked.
  
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  October 27, 2022 1:40pm
I remember when

NZR admit schedule stuff up bewteen All Blacks and Black Ferns: TV3 Late News.
Obviously Newshub wanted to show it can happen to anybody
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October 27, 2022 9:12am
Colville

Cricket.
With either Eng or Aus to lose another game (they play each other) we are looking ok even with last nights drawn game?

Brilliant Ireland getting up over the Poms 🙂
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October 27, 2022 9:23am
Tony Stuart

Dr Shane Reti set Andrew Little up brilliantly yesterday in Question Time:

Dr Shane Reti: Why did the chair of his waiting list task force say on TV ONE last night that targets were a distraction; yet, as the acting medical officer of Counties Manukau, in the board meeting of 23 February this year, that same person accepted a report titled Metrics that matter, describing surgical targets, and why, then, were targets metrics that mattered in February but, at the Minister’s task force stand-up yesterday, the exact same targets are now a distraction?

Hon ANDREW LITTLE: So that question just demonstrates the sheer and utter confusion that that member dwells in. I think the main point is this: it is widely accepted by many clinicians that targets are not a plan. Targets don’t deliver service. Targets don’t improve services. What you need is a plan. The National Party thinks that, if you have a target, magically things will happen. What we do know, from the 2019 research into the National Party health targets, is that they were manipulated and dodged and did not deliver good healthcare.

Dr Shane Reti: Did he support the COVID vaccination target?

Hon ANDREW LITTLE: This Government follows clinical advice, and there is epidemiological research that says that, in order to reach a level of herd immunity, there is a level that you have to reach, and we followed that clinical advice. But, when we are running services, when we are operating services, we focus on having a plan and resourcing it, not like the National Party that declares they’re going to do bowel screening, doesn’t resource it, doesn’t fund it, and lets it flounder.

https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/document/HansS_20221026_051120000/9-question-no-9-health

Unfortunately, Hansard doesn’t capture the look of horror on Little’s face when he realised he had walked into the trap! And it’s appropriate that the last word Little used was “flounder”, because that’s what he has been flapping around like as Reti has interrogated him the last couple of weeks.
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October 27, 2022 9:31am
- David Garrett
  
  Perhaps I am a little slow this morning…what “trap” do you say Little fell into?
  
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  October 27, 2022 9:34am
  - Tricati
    
    I think the trap was when Little was dismissing Reti’s questions on Labour removing health targets, to which Reti asked, why did the government push vaccine targets if they are irrelevant.
    
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    October 27, 2022 9:44am
    - David Garrett
      
      Thank you…I see it now.
      
      Brain is a bit slow this morning.
      
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      October 27, 2022 10:03am
- Its only I
  
  Is there any truth in Littles extraordinary claim that Nationals health numbers were manipulated?
  
  That’s the loudest part of the exchange for me.
  
  If National did not manipulate numbers then surely Littles bold whataboutism is an open door to drop a match into Labours powder store. Are Nationals matches dry?
  
  I hope the answers to those questions don’t require a pair of glasses with a special tinted lens to be able to see a positive answer.
  
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  October 27, 2022 10:19am
  - alloytoo
    
    I think it demonstrates projection, Labour is massaging the numbers for all they’re worth and they’re still awful.
    
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    October 27, 2022 10:51am
  - Matt Long
    
    As I recall DHBs we’re inclined to drop people off waiting lists to comply with targets.
    Labour understand that goals and targets are a waste time, who would invest in a company that set goals and targets?//
    
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    October 27, 2022 11:19am
- Scooter
  
  You can see the video, he was obviously very flustered.
  
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  October 28, 2022 6:38am
Ghost

It would be very hard to disagree with his comment.

“If there’s any value in Māori myths then it must be worldwide,” he told Gower.

“It can’t be true that it’s only true in New Zealand – that would be ridiculous.”

New Zealand academics disagree with Richard Dawkins’ dismissal of mātauranga Māori as science

New Zealand academics disagree with comments by a top UK biologist dismissing mātauranga Māori.

The comments were made by Oxford University’s Richard Dawkins, one of the world’s leading public intellectuals, during an interview with Newshub national correspondent Patrick Gower.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/10/new-zealand-academics-disagree-with-richard-dawkins-dismissal-of-m-tauranga-m-ori-as-science.html
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October 27, 2022 9:44am
- James Stephenson
  
  Ol’ Dawkins can be a bit overly-combative sometimes and could do a bit better in actually trying to win the argument.
  
  In our country (mine and RD’s, which would be England) cultural knowledge holds, for example, that:
  
  1. A red sky at night is an indicator of fine weather on the way etc.
  2. Three white frosts in a row, will be followed by rain.
  
  Obviously grounded somewhere in observation of patterns of nature but *not science*. If I were a science teacher I’d object to be forced to treat these things as equivalent whichever culture they originate from.
  
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  October 27, 2022 10:06am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  How dare Richard Dawkins upset aotearoa’s academics!
  
  How dare he!
  
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  October 27, 2022 10:06am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I made the same point a while back. If Maori Science was flash other nations would be after it.
  
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  October 27, 2022 10:15am
- Benedict Yu
  
  BTW Dawkins is doing a lecture tour in New Zealand in February. Can’t wait for the demonstrations. 😂
  
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  October 27, 2022 10:16am
  - Liberty
    
    Will Dawkins be allowed into the country?
    We have had an Australian Journalist refused entry
    for dubious reasons.
    
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    October 27, 2022 12:17pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  They can disagree all they like, Science unlike Matauranga is based upon evidence from research and testing.
  Dawkins is right.
  
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  October 27, 2022 10:18am
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    How can they have a science background when they did not have a writing system or a mathematical system??
    
    17 0
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    October 27, 2022 11:04am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Yes exactly. They had KNOWLEDGE. Totally different. Through happenstance they notice that a fern frond has a substance that eases insect bite pain. This is very useful knowledge. All indigenous peoples have this knowledge.
      
      However they had NO understanding of the pharmacokinetics of that substance. They could not figure out WHY the substance had such effects. They could not undertake experiments to test its effectiveness against other substances, or to test ways to achieve gain of function. In contrast, by the 1600s, the Scientific Method was achieving major advances in Europe. A good example is the discovery of the role of oxygen in combustion.
      
      https://www.britannica.com/biography/Antoine-Lavoisier
      
      I could list hundreds of others. Science can simply not exist without mathematics and a sophisticated written language. Without those prerequisites all you have is knowledge, stumbled upon by chance and passed down orally.
      
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      October 27, 2022 11:52am
      - Taieri
        
        stumbled upon by chance and passed down orally
        —————–
        
        With all distortions that “passing down orally” inflicts…
        
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        October 27, 2022 12:16pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        Most pre-science ‘knowledge’ and ‘traditional’ medicine was complete bullshit – ill-founded beliefs rather than ‘knowledge’.
        
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        October 27, 2022 7:48pm
- Taieri
  
  I like this gem:
  
  “Let’s remember that 3000 years before Dawkins’ ancestors dipped their toes in the North Atlantic, mine were traversing the biggest ocean on the planet using nothing more than Polynesian science,” she said.
  
  Only 3000 years? Not 6000? Or 40000?
  
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  October 27, 2022 10:20am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Not sure why getting blown that far off course was an achievement?
    
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    October 27, 2022 11:12am
- Chris Nisbet
  
  NZ apparently has some pretty stupid academics.
  
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  October 27, 2022 10:20am
  - cmm
    
    Well funded. They know which side of the toast has the jam on it.
    
    13 1
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    October 27, 2022 10:42am
    - gravedodger
      
      The side on the carpet, thought everyone knew that?
      
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      October 27, 2022 11:17am
Tricati

If it is factual, then she is toast. If not, then people need to find factual avenues to have a crack at her and there are plenty of those.
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October 27, 2022 9:47am
slightlyrighty

Is it appropriate to ask why Maori and Pasifika students have cultural appropriateness issues when faced with Literacy and Numeracy tests, when Asian and South Asian students have no such problems?
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October 27, 2022 10:04am
- cmm
  
  Asian and South Asians have thousands of years of reading, writing and numeracy in their history going back far further than Westerners. Thus Asian sperm and ova carry the ability to add, read and write.
  
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  October 27, 2022 10:41am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Yes, particularly in China where the fecund Mandarin elite were selected on the basis of educational competitions for the last 1500 years – feeding those carefully selected elite academic genes in great numbers into the gene pool.
    
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    October 27, 2022 10:57am
    - fightingtemeraire
      
      The Chinese entry exam into the top Universities is extraordinarily hard and the same goes for the Japanese.
      
      The entry exam into the Indian Civil Service is also very hard. This was inherited from the Raj where only the best and brightest entered the ICS
      
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      October 27, 2022 11:03am
    - cmm
      
      Even back before Genghis Khan there was an incredibly robust examination to get into the public service. There might even still be something along those lines.
      
      To get into public service you had to be good at reading, writing and arithmetic. Well above NZ lower-decile levels.
      
      It is impossible to have administration (and therefore even large towns and cities) without accounting and record keeping.
      
      What’s the largest city/town developed in a society without a written language and maths? Great Zimbabwe (now the Zimbabwe ruins) is thought by some to have housed up to 18,000 people but it was a trading centre so very likely had Arabian etc merchants providing administrative services.
      
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      October 27, 2022 11:36am
David Garrett

Lee C: Perhaps you could provide us with a summary of that difficult to read 23 page document. Write an Abstract of a couple of paras.
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October 27, 2022 10:06am
- Lee C
  
  No will do David. I’ll pass on what I saw and invite others to draw their own conclusions.
  
  I have not fully digested the info. and am aware of the porous nature of hearsay, so qualify my input in that spirit.
  
  Otherwise, if we had anyone with a legal expereince or expereince with jusrisprudence, they might be the ideal person to decipher the document.
  
  My fundamental concern is that were this true, how rapidly it would be buried…. or indeed is it another straw on the camel’s back?
  
  The ‘Lawnmower’ thing has been floating around for years now. ‘Reading between the lines’ as advised by Ardern about Sroubreck, it all seems very interesting.
  
  Have ‘conspiracists’ been working for years to fabricate a lie, oe is this smoke from a fire.
  
  I honestly don’t know, but can only harbour suspicions about it
  
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  October 27, 2022 10:29am
Ghost

Drumroll please, and this week strike Acton is………. Remember all the strikes under the national government, oh wait, there were bugger all

More than 4000 GP clinic, urgent care and Plunket nurses around the country will walk off the job on Thursday as they battle for fairer pay.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/10/over-4000-nurses-around-new-zealand-to-walk-off-job-over-pay-disparity.html
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October 27, 2022 10:33am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING

NZ Foreign Minister’s first cousin details part he played in securing release of Topher Richwhite and wife Bridget out of Iran.

https://twitter.com/MahutaCorp/status/1585141997316501511
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October 27, 2022 11:18am
oldfella

If the Aussie footballers feel so strongly, the only honourable thing to do is withdraw from the tournament. Right? Yeah, nah… //
‘Cannot be ignored’: Socceroos take bold, world-first stand against Cup hosts Qatar
The Socceroos have become the first World Cup team to mount a collective protest against next month’s World Cup hosts Qatar.
Concerned with the nations’ human rights record including their treatment of foreign workers and restrictions on the LGBTQI+ community, the Socceroos have released a video message with 16-players reading lines from a collective statement.
Those players have the support of the broader squad, while Football Australia subsequently released a separate statement which declares: “the tournament has been associated with suffering for some migrant workers and their families and this cannot be ignored.”
It is arguably the strongest unified stance taken so far by a nation competing at the World Cup, though players and officials from some rivals have spoken out about the controversial decision to award the Middle Eastern nation the rights to the showpiece tournament.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/football/world-cup/fifa-world-cup-2022-socceroos-protest-qatar-human-rights-migrant-workers-news-video-statement-lgbtqi/news-story/c6307919cf59925bfaf43f6b46f6b317
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October 27, 2022 11:21am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “restrictions on the LGBTQI+ community…”
  
  NO Muslim country is going to legalise homosexuality, let alone transsexuals. What do they expect?
  
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  October 27, 2022 11:43am
- graham
  
  If the Aussie footballers feel so strongly, the only honourable thing to do is withdraw from the tournament.
  
  Nailed it. The Socceroos should boycott it and urge others to do the same. Do they have the courage of their convictions? Waiting …
  
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  October 27, 2022 11:52am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    If you go to another country you respect their laws. If you cannot respect the laws, don’t go there. I would not travel to Iran or Afghanistan for that reason. It is pathetic, and it will not go down well with Qatar. “oops we lost your luggage”. “sorry the restaurant is full”.
    
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    October 27, 2022 5:11pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

There was a comment here on General Debate with a link to a Dossier.pdf about some Police and Court stuff being covered up.
Can’t find it now. Removed?
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October 27, 2022 11:23am
- Ghost
  
  It was rubbish, and I’d say the blog isn’t going down that path of putting itself at risk, nothing of substance in it
  
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  October 27, 2022 11:30am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I saved it. Page 2. Then pages 13 onwards.
    “nothing of substance in it” Really?
    The whole truth will come out one day.
    
    The Blog putting itself at risk I respect, I guess the mods removed it.
    
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    October 27, 2022 11:37am
  - skyblue
    
    Nothing of substance in it. Like a ghost?
    
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    October 27, 2022 11:54am
    - Ghost
      
      Like anything to prove it was factual and not written up by someone just trying to push the story,
      
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      October 27, 2022 11:58am
      - skyblue
        
        Unlike the media who always tell the truth.
        As Jacinda said in 2018, you can read between the lines.
        
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        October 27, 2022 12:09pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        “Story” ? What story Ghost?
        
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        October 27, 2022 2:33pm
  - Lee C
    
    I put it out there, and was at pains to indicate it was hearsay. And ‘reading between the lines’…
    
    About 24 pages of hearsay, including references to police records, articles in the MSM and allegations of an orchestrated ‘cover-up’.
    
    Was the alleged court appearance about the same time as the Parliamentary protests were crushed?
    
    Surely not. Were that the case, that would look very much like an orchestrated attempt to gain control of the front pages and six oclock news at that time, wouldn’t it?
    
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    October 27, 2022 5:06pm
- skyblue
  
  [Mod – deleted and if you try that again you will get a holiday]
  
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  October 27, 2022 11:53am
  - skyblue
    
    Where to? The Maldives is quite nice at this time of year.
    
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    October 27, 2022 12:05pm
    - kowtow
      
      Haven’t they drowned yet .
      
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      October 27, 2022 2:00pm
      - skyblue
        
        Not in 2019 when I was there.
        
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        October 27, 2022 3:48pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

From my Facebook 27-10-21. Taxpayer’s Union.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/454334/three-waters-reforms-to-be-mandatory-for-councils-nanaia-mahuta
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October 27, 2022 11:39am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Mandatory for Councils. Who the hell does she think she is?
  
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  October 27, 2022 11:40am
  - Harry Knuts
    
    The Real Prime Minister of NZ. Cindy is just a decoy.
    
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    October 27, 2022 12:13pm
- oldfella
  
  Steve: I’m still waiting for Labour’s co-governance ‘discussion’ – you know, the one Cindy was going to have with the 84% of non-Maori NZers before the end of this year? The same co-governance that is already baked into the 3 Waters bill they’re pushing through parliament.
  
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  October 27, 2022 12:07pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Working Group must still be working on it for Jaspinda.
    
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    October 27, 2022 2:35pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

FB.
COP26. The fraudsters con artists and scammers are telling us so far not yet invented energy sources are going to save the planet.
Green Hydrogen is being touted as a fix. I would remind everyone of the Hindenburg.
Most Western countries will use nuke power to solve their energy problems. Rolls Royce is working on small scale very efficient and safe nuke plants that can be added to any size,
But of course NZ wont go this path. The Greens wont allow anymore hydro ( harms the environment) wind and solar on work some time and as we saw in the UK fails at times to meet demand.
Putin is bailing out West Germany with Russian gas as their systems cant meet demand. The Poms are facing a very cold unheated winter.
And meanwhile the rich pricks are planning on getting richer. Australia has just promised them $19B to develop other energy sources. You can bet most of this will be trousered and they will come back for more.
As I say Climate Change will be looked back upon by future generations as the biggest con fraud and scam ever perpetrated on the middle classes and the poor.

Hydrogen is ‘stored energy’ Not an energy source, but an energy transfer mechanism. May as well use electricity manufactured by nuclear.
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October 27, 2022 11:47am
- Taieri
  
  Hydrogen is ‘stored energy’ Not an energy source, but an energy transfer mechanism.
  ————–
  
  And not a very efficient way of storing and transferring it.
  
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  October 27, 2022 12:19pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Correct, it leaches through storage tanks, I think the term is
    
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    October 27, 2022 12:55pm
    - Taieri
      
      That’s not the main reason. The production process, particularly for the “green” hydrogen, is extremely inefficient from the thermodynamics point of view.
      
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      October 27, 2022 1:47pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        Yes hydrogen storage round-trip efficiency isn’t great, but can get up to about 60% now, which isn’t terrible given super-cheap desert PV (many projects now at $0.02-0.03/kWh). And (liquid) hydrogen has super advantage of being cheap to store and transport internationally.
        
        If the world is set on going renewable then huge grid-scale desert PV liquid hydrogen is the answer – it’s cheaper than status quo because with reticulated home hydrogen delivery from such sources possible at natural gas prices it could halve the cost of electricity to homes (via home fuel cell battery for peak loads). No need for expensive rooftop PV, or subsidies – economics will drive it.
        
        Fast breeder nuclear reactors are the other part of the answer, for energy security base-load generation. Would cost less to develop than a months worth of global money wasted on ineffective climate change policies.
        
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        October 27, 2022 4:50pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  I attended “COP 9” in Milan in 2003. – nearly 20 years ago.
  
  Hydrogen was being touted then. It was bullshit then and it is bullshit today.
  
  BTW didn’t Shane Jones fund a pilot for some hydrogen outfit in New Zealand under the PGF? What happened to it?
  
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  October 27, 2022 5:15pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Technology and economics have radically changed in 20 years because PV has become the cheapest form of generation at ~$0.02-0.03/kWh.
    
    We have huge stranded energy resources in the form of sun in deserts too far from large populations to be connected by grid. The super-cheap electricity they make is around a third to half of typical international wholesale electricity costs in western countries.
    
    That stranded energy can be delivered to large population centers via inefficient ‘green’ hydrogen and still undercut existing wholesale electricity costs (could halve home electricity costs). A clear and inevitable economic winner that will actually improve everyone’s standard of living (with lower living costs)
    
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    October 27, 2022 6:42pm
    - Taieri
      
      We have huge stranded energy resources in the form of sun in deserts too far from large populations to be connected by grid.
      ————
      
      Where is the water for hydrogen production going to come from in those deserts?
      
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      October 28, 2022 7:46am
      - Chris Nisbet
        
        I guess they can simply pump it in.
        /s
        
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        October 28, 2022 8:35am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Hiringa Energy
    
    https://www.hiringa.co.nz/about-us
    
    Seems to be ticking along fine in Taranaki
    
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    October 27, 2022 7:55pm
    - Paul Marsden
      
      No it isn’t. All the money spent so far has been on bureaucracy and fancy websites like this.
      
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      October 27, 2022 10:32pm
surfing

https://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/305547-the-bop-property-that-comes-gang-boss.html

Local gang member had their storage buildings confiscated, under proceeds of crime.

The buildings are on the market, but the gang member claims illegal ownership.

Any person stupid enough to buy them may be pushing daisies sooner than later.

Such is the state of justice in NZ!!
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October 27, 2022 11:47am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Buy them on condition they come with free sawn off shotguns and amo.
  Sawn off because there were 87 barrels handed in, in the gun buyback.
  
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  October 27, 2022 2:39pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Alex Baldwin’s gun is now on trial for murder. Judge Judy presiding//
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October 27, 2022 11:50am
- All_on_Red
  
  Losing his house in the Hamptons though.
  Has to sell it to pay for his settlement with the family of the woman he killed. And probably his forthcoming massive Legal Fees.
  https://www.mansionglobal.com/articles/alec-baldwin-lists-10-acre-hamptons-compound-for-29-million-01663966985
  
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  October 27, 2022 1:31pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    All for being a fuckwit. There were guns on that set because they were used for target practice when not filming. Americans like to shoot guns in case you did not know.
    Done it myself in Alaska. Gun Range, and on an 80 acre private family camp. First time firing a handgun.
    Anyway, Baldwin needs to go to jail. Guns do not shoot by themselves full stop.
    
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    October 27, 2022 2:49pm
Nickc2

Does anyone know what the outcome of discussions was between Mayor Elect Brown (Akld) and Nanaia Mahuta and her band of racist thieves about 3Waters which was supposed to take place yesterday?
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October 27, 2022 11:51am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The media have basically given us Mahuta’s take on the meeting.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130289371/nanaia-mahuta-wayne-brown-open-to-collaborating-on-three-waters
  
  I can’t seem to locate Wayne Brown’s (team’s) press release about the meeting.
  
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  October 27, 2022 12:33pm
  - Nickc2
    
    TKS Maggy. I hope Brown stands by his promise to make 3Waters not negotiable for Akld.
    Let’s face it, theft is theft no matter what colour it’s painted.
    It was a good move to make Mahuta’s mob pay for any work undertaken by Watercare on this matter.
    
    On a lighter note, if Mahuta is found to have misled Parliament over her appointment of a relative to the He Pua Pua Report panel, she may (should) not be around in Parliament for a while.
    
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    October 27, 2022 12:52pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      she may (should) not be around in Parliament for a while.
      
      It is not the way the system (tikanga) works.
      
      If Nanaia Mahuta leaves/stands down, etc, her seat will be taken by another person that is part of the Waikato-Tainui/Urban Maori Authority elite.
      
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      October 27, 2022 2:49pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I am hoping Mahuta the looter told Brown that 3 waters will be mandatory for Councils, and Wayne Brown told her to stick it where the global warming sun don’t shine.
  This Moari takeover has to be stopped.
  See https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/
  
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  October 27, 2022 2:55pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

US mid-terms. Early voting.
https://www.facebook.com/TeRangitira/posts/pfbid02GqpfLwdUftn78WLV8gCT4P8sq4nCfuRzqbWjFpNUuPuddvSm5Gv4TD7f8NGfm98ol
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October 27, 2022 11:54am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Last one:
I was sitting at a red light yesterday, minding my own business, patiently
waiting for it to turn green even though there was no on-coming traffic.
Then a carload of bearded, young, loud Muslims, shouting anti-British
slogans, with a half- burned Union Jack duct-taped to the boot lid of their
car and a “Remember 9-11” slogan, spray painted on the side, pulled up next
to me.
Suddenly they yelled, “Allah Akhbar!” and took off before the lights
changed. Out of nowhere a bus came speeding through the junction and ran
directly over their car, crushing it completely and killing everyone in it.
For several minutes I sat in my car thinking to myself, “Bloody hell! That
could have been me”…. So today, bright and early, I went out and got a
job as a bus driver.
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October 27, 2022 11:56am
Ghost

Strangely I never thought it would have been a woman

Police have arrested a woman in relation to the attack on the Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s electorate office early on Thursday.

The front door of the office in Morningside, Auckland could be seen smashed and what appeared to be a sword was lying nearby.

Police said the 57-year-old was arrested when she was found at a Coatesville house and was taken into custody.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300721972/woman-arrested-after-prime-minister-jacinda-arderns-auckland-electoral-office-damaged
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October 27, 2022 12:19pm
- Black with a Vengeance
  
  What’s the chances she reads or is inspired by the happy mischief fomented here ?
  
  Pretty good I’d say…
  
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  October 27, 2022 12:39pm
  - herb1
    
    Big assumption There . Approx 70% of the population don’t like Ardern or her party and I suspect only a small portion of that 70% have even heard of KB
    People like you make me sad for the old days when you could disagree with a lefty then have a beer and realise your dealing with intelligence.
    My how things have changed
    
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    October 27, 2022 2:38pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    She was at the Jan 6th Insurrection in Washington DC as well. Paid for by Trump.
    
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    October 27, 2022 2:57pm
  - Jack5
    
    🌴Brown with a Vengeance – re your 12.39 post …
    
    Mmm … from the Stuff photo, the sword looks like a Samoan Nifo Oti chopper😀
    
    https://www.ashokaarts.com/shop/antique-samoan-nifo-oti-chopper-or-axe-type-weapon/
    
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    October 27, 2022 3:16pm
  - kevn
    
    @bwav… Here to amuse us. Good one.
    
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    October 27, 2022 6:47pm
- skyblue
  
  Don’t assume ‘her’ gender. She might have balls.
  
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  October 27, 2022 1:00pm
- stroker08
  
  If only the Police worked that quickly to catch ram-raiders….
  
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  October 27, 2022 1:02pm
  - Ghost
    
    If only the ram raiders didn’t cover there faces for ctv could capture them as it did with her
    
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    October 27, 2022 1:54pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Not so long ago, everyone had their face covered.
      Orders from the Podium of Truth.
      
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      October 27, 2022 2:58pm
- Surely Knott
  
  What is her name. We were told Philip pilkinghornes name from the getgo. Why not this woman?
  
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  October 27, 2022 4:36pm
- Lee C
  
  Was it Maggy?
  
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  October 27, 2022 5:07pm
Ghost

Ok, I know it’s wrong to laugh at others misfortune, but damn, those lips

A woman suffered a severe allergic reaction and was rushed to hospital after undergoing a discounted cosmetic procedure that caused her lips to triple in size.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2022/10/us-woman-suffers-extreme-allergic-reaction-after-undergoing-lip-filler-procedure.html
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October 27, 2022 12:24pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Saw similar where the woman had it done because it made her beautiful.
  Mental Health issue. Not the same woman though, I think.
  
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  October 27, 2022 1:01pm
BeaB

Gosh. Kiri Allen is appalled at the ‘disgraceful’ clash between the men and women’s rugby teams.
I couldn’t give a toss but hope soon she might be appalled by the desperate plight of Māori kids, the families mouldering in motels, children being murdered, mums and dads unable to afford decent meals for their kids, dreadful education and health stats, Labour squandering gazillions on pointless restructurings…the list is just so long.
But, great, the rugby has got her riled up.
And her fiancée is an announcer on state radio main morning news programme.
What a wonderful little country we are. The Nu Tirani.
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October 27, 2022 12:36pm
Jack5

Woke language mania ….

As well as supporting Polynesian language learning, New Zealand is giving more than quarter of a million dollars a year to Melanesian minorities to support their language learning – and these groups would like more.

In Papua NG alone there are 832 recognised Melanesian languages – not 832 dialects.

Support is already provided in NZ for Fijian (Vosa vaka-Viti), a Melanesian language.

Polynesian language learning supported by NZ taxpayers, and excluding Maori: Samoan, Tongan, Cook Islands Maori, Rotuman, Tuvaluan, Niuean, and Tokelaun.

On Kiwiblog yesterday, we read that just 2 per cent of decile 1 students passed the writing component of new standards that will be required from 2024 for NCEA assessment, and only 24 per cent met the reading target.

Many migrant children from Polynesia and Melanesia will be in Decile 1 school zones and will need to understand work in English when they eventually seek jobs.

Perhaps the mad Woke will demand that, instead, employers will have to learn the near 1,000 Melanesian and Polynesian languages.

Advocate wants more help for Melanesian languages:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/477474/melanesian-advocate-criticises-pacific-language-strategy
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October 27, 2022 12:38pm
Maggie Pie

RANDOM IMPERTINENT QUESTION

Why didn’t Philip Polkinghorne receive automatic name-suppression when he appeared in court charged with murdering his wife Pauline?

One of the girls from tennis reckons this is really really unusual.

As is receiving bail. Just saying.
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October 27, 2022 1:18pm
- fernglas
  
  No such thing as automatic suppression. You have to ask for it. Perhaps he didn’t see any point in asking. Nor is receiving bail on murder charges unusual. Not common, but not unusual. It all depends on the circumstances, and as he hadn’t done a runner and seems unlikely to re-offend or tamper with witnesses, bail could be granted. Can’t have an as yet unproven charge of murder punished at the whim of the girls at Remmers Racquets, can we?
  
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  October 27, 2022 5:51pm
krazykiwi

Roll up for the Sunak and Gove puppet show

The farce of the last few weeks has been useful for the following reason: it has shown, to those prepared to look, that the mainstream media’s obsession with domestic politics is misplaced. ‘Domestic politics’ has become oxymoronic. Sunak, Gove, Braverman and the rest are, whether they know it or not, being puppeteered either by the deeper state or by globalist institutions, or (more likely) by a combination of both.

Is that a conspiracy theory? Yes, my theory is that there is a conspiracy, and the thing about theories is that they can be true. Some commentators, most notably Toby Young, resist that conclusion by invoking Hanlon’s Razor: never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity. To which the reply must be that as a methodological principle this is not axiomatically true.

Which is the simpler, and therefore better, explanation of the economic, social and political disasters that have taken a global form? That they are unconnected cock-ups or that they are the products of malign agency? Given the announcements of the likes of Klaus Schwab, and the confiscation of national sovereignty by the WEF, the WHO and the Davos types, why is it not simpler to prefer the latter explanation over the former?
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October 27, 2022 1:40pm
- kevn
  
  @kk… BlackRock is a big player in the Uk game as well.
  
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  October 27, 2022 2:17pm
- Frank the tank
  
  Don’t worry – the working class wave is about to hit the elites.
  
  Italy, Sweden, likely the US – the dominos are dropping.
  
  The incoming recession might just be the globalists “Let them eat cake” moment.
  
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  October 27, 2022 2:46pm
CAKE FACE1

A first from me, but here is a link to the Daily Blog:

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2022/10/27/the-secret-media-meetings-for-political-censorship-of-the-2023-election-why-tdb-cant-cover-them/

“So I hear about this closed door meeting between the Disinformation Project and the mainstream media and I get immediately curious.

It’s odd that a closed door event like this gets circulated and I am curious as to know what the Disinformation Project and the Science Media Centre are telling News Producers and Journalists in the lead up to the 2023 election…

If The Daily Blog can’t go to hear what the academics want the mainstream media and corporate news media to censor, then shouldn’t we at least know what corporate media and mainstream media are going so that we know they might be self censoring?

We just learned that the entire NZ mainstream media self censored any coverage of rich white social media influencer wankers while our Government pulled punches on Iran.

Shouldn’t we at least know if the mainstream media and corporate news are self censoring particular opinions in the 2023 election?”

Good points. This does sound super sinister.

The Team of $55 million are degenerate and despicable.

Are they trying to fix the next election?

Someone in the media needs to leak what is going on here to the public.
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October 27, 2022 2:43pm
Maggie Pie

YAY!! Desley confirmed as Wayne’s deputy 😀

Dess was a yuge advocate to re-introduce Council BERM MAINTENANCE after Pant’s-Down-Brown pulled the plug…. turning parts of Auckland into looking like 3rd world shitholes.
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October 27, 2022 2:44pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  No berm. Up Right of Way!
  
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  October 27, 2022 3:08pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Not on a ‘cross-lease’ are ya? 🙁
    
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    October 27, 2022 3:30pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Yes of course. I own their half
      
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      October 27, 2022 5:18pm
      - kevn
        
        @SteveO… and they own your half?
        
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        October 27, 2022 5:36pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        OMG! One of the girls at tennis is on a cross-lease.
        When they put their pool in, they had to put a trapdoor in the deck cos the front neighbors sewage pipe ran alongside it. Imagine 🙁
        
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        October 27, 2022 5:54pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        They own my half. We both have a legal agreement called an “Easement”
        
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        October 28, 2022 8:58am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Familia?
“It didn’t start with gas chambers. It started with one party controlling the media. One party controlling the message. One party deciding what is truth. One party silencing speech and silencing opposition. One party dividing citizens into ‘us’ and ‘them’ and calling on their supporters to harass ‘them.’ It started when good people turned a blind eye and let it happen.”
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October 27, 2022 3:22pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  NZ does not really have a First Amendment, like the US has in the Constitution.
  This game has just started.
  Covid shit to see how far we can be pushed before making a noise.
  Now we are getting this ‘censorship’ of free speech – mentioned by someone at United Nations – as a weapon of War.
  Will New Zealand wake up???????
  
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  October 27, 2022 3:39pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    This is how bad it is:
    “The government is not allowed to do indirectly what it is prohibited from doing directly, so if it’s using surrogates like Twitter to, for a global censorship program, it could run afoul of the Constitution,” Turley said.
    
    “The Twitter CEO said we’re past the issue of who should speak, what we’re really focused on is who should be heard. That’s the attitude, that’s the corporate censorship culture that has taken over Twitter,” Turley added later. “That’s why they’re apoplectic at [Tesla CEO Elon] Musk taking over and reintroducing free speech protections, it’s because a major social media company might actually reintroduce free speech.”
    
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    October 27, 2022 3:46pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  “To conquer a nation, first disarm its law abiding citizens”
  
  – Adolph Hitler
  
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  October 27, 2022 5:49pm
Its only I

Fair pay bill seems a positive for Labour, according to the flood of Gov positive comments on stuff anyway.
It appears, judging by the rampant Labour influencers posts, National are negative nancies naturally opposing anything halting the oppression of good honest kiwis by their corporate donors.

$tuffed begging banner under the story below

Left or Right, journalism matters
Whatever your politics, we can all agree: New Zealand is better off when Kiwis are well-informed. Our reporters in the Beehive work relentlessly to scrutinise how the Government represents you and spends your money.

And because $tuffed is 100% independently owned they report what they find without fear or favour. They work for you, not the parties or people in power.

BWAHAHA!!!
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October 27, 2022 3:58pm
NZer In Exile

I’m wondering if Jacinda is going to Antarctica to shoot a “climate emergency” propaganda piece (hey, never mind Antarctica isn’t warming and is net gaining ice mass).

In Australia the “fake independents” (aka Teal Independents…lefty middle/upper-class posers pretending to be “independent” who then vote only green/labour legislation in) primarily appeal to low resolution thinker women who need to be seen latching on to the “latest cause”.

So I’m thinking Jacinda and her propaganda army will be pulling similar stunts.
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October 27, 2022 5:01pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Oh, and the main schtick of the teal independents is climate hysteria.
  
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  October 27, 2022 5:16pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

It’s a beauty, Bye Dorsey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob_IBdt5Iws
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October 27, 2022 5:23pm
Chris Nisbet

Simon Dallow telling us outright lies tonight. He says greenhouse gas levels are at record levels. That is a massive porky. CO2 levels have been at least an order of magnitude higher in the past.
He also implies that extreme weather around the world this year was due to climate change.
Fricken annoying that the state broadcaster gets away with this without any repercussions (except the loss of credibility).
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October 27, 2022 6:29pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Don’t tune in to New Zealand TV. Waste of time.
  
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  October 27, 2022 6:36pm
  - Chris Nisbet
    
    SWMBO watches it. I put up with it to keep up to date with the lies the enemy are pushing our way.
    A good one we heard just recently was that farmers are on board with the new emissions tax.
    
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    October 27, 2022 6:54pm
- Nickc2
  
  The state broadcaster and its minister have no credibility whatsoever. Lying deceitful bastards!
  
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  October 27, 2022 7:07pm
Benedict Yu

The first job of the Government is to keep people safe from criminals.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300722124/three-youths-arrested-as-cyclists-report-being-deliberately-knocked-off-bikes

There is an epidemic of car thefts in Christchurch. There are five gangs of kids doing this. Aged 10 to 16. The police should go after them and lock them up. My reliable source tells me that these gangs are going after 10 cars each night.
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October 27, 2022 6:31pm
Maggie Pie

Listening to HDPA earlier having a big rant about troffer Goff and his ‘jobs-for-the-boys’ appointment to London.
But then, at the very end goes on to say…..”she really quite likes Phil, he’s actually a nice guy” 🙁

WTF? Everyone we know thiks he’s a knut.
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October 27, 2022 7:45pm

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