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April 23, 2022 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 23 April 2022

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General Debate

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mikenmildagain

Happy World Book Day!
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April 23, 2022 8:01am
- SmokerGuy
  
  Love a good book! Why all the down ticks? Down ticking someone based purely on who they are rather than what they post seems a bit shite to me.
  
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  April 23, 2022 9:55am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    It’s a Kiwiblog tradition of very long standing.
    
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    April 23, 2022 11:28am
    - Gravelroad
      
      Which you yourself do, mma?
      
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      April 23, 2022 12:17pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Of course. It’s much easier to scroll through a thread if one has already placed a karma tick to indicate one has already read a comment
        
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        April 23, 2022 12:46pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        I suppose Earth Book Day is the partner of Earth Day which was yesterday -( thanks MMA). Not many will know this little gem:
        
        “Vladimir Lenin was born on April 22, 1870. One hundred years later his birthday was renamed “Earth Day” by a man who killed and composted his girlfriend. ”
        So we celebrate the memory of two murderers.
        Nice. (and Kind)
        
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        April 23, 2022 1:23pm
    - Biscuit
      
      Lookety, everyone, Moi is agreeing with Mike here.
      
      The 23 (to date) downtickers to mike’s perfectly innocuous ‘Happy World Book Day!’ have some strange priorities. Or, as mike suspects, some bizarre inherent ‘it’s mike so I must downtick’ tendencies…
      
      Maybe it was the exclamation mark, mike! I find that such punctuation points really irritate the mammaries on some folk. And don’t get me STARTED on my occasional dot dot dot endings to sentences…
      
      107 years ago, as I type, thousands of young – too young – ANZAC servicefolk were about to die.
      One of my favourite WH Auden poems comes to mind:
      ‘To save your world you asked this man to die; would this man, could he see you now, ask why?’
      
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      April 23, 2022 12:20pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Oh yes, Anzac Day. One of my favourite holidays, and two long weekends in a row too. But not the sort of row as in the poet’s reference to Flanders fields.
        
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        April 23, 2022 12:50pm
    - blue collar
      
      😅 even i upticked you mike , that’s you, batty and a positive comment about stuff in 2 days !! Christ im off to see the quack n get my head checked 😁
      Nah , like Benedict when presented with alternative information I can change my attitude and stance .
      Still think you’re generally cooked , however occasionally not .
      
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      April 23, 2022 12:51pm
    - Bridgenag
      
      Easier if you an established ‘difficult’ to down tick when the name is there. Trouble is we are better to ignore in case we are enabling a down ticker nasty who gets the kicks from the folks that have looked. Hard to do that though when the hidden message is not read just down ticked. It looks as though we have bothered to look. Have decided to ignore in future not enable.
      
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      April 23, 2022 2:37pm
  - pdm
    
    self inflicted just by Mikey posting.
    
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    April 23, 2022 12:51pm
    - SmokerGuy
      
      Yeah well people like to complain how the left are a bunch of vindictive assholes (of which this government are taking to another level) so I prefer not to act in the same manner as should others. If you disagree with someone, debate them but down ticking a simple post like this really doesn’t warrant it imo.
      
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      April 23, 2022 1:59pm
  - mogg
    
    Just reading Colin Thubron, ‘To a Mountain in Tibet”. 220 ages of incredible prose. I was just thinking that I could sit here for the rest of my life and still not compose 1 page of similar quality.
    
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    April 23, 2022 12:54pm
    - John Pakes
      
      Thanks for the tip Mogg.
      I am off to the library to pick it up.
      
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      April 23, 2022 2:36pm
      - mogg
        
        My pleasure, in a similar vein:
        Redmond O Hanlon ‘Into the Heart of Africa’
        Bruce Chatwin ‘Songlines
        Jonathan Rabhan
        Paul Theroux ( travel only not his novels)
        Martha Gellhorn ‘Cuba Revisited’
        Graham Swift
        
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        April 23, 2022 4:31pm
    - Bridgenag
      
      His latest The Amur River is excellent.
      
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      April 23, 2022 2:39pm
  - bono vilfredo
    
    Downticking mikenmild is a sport on KiwiBlog my good man Smoker Guy. It’s informally compulsory,
    
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    April 23, 2022 5:23pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Down votes cause leftie, no one cares what day it is apart from pay day and pension day 😜
    
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    April 23, 2022 8:29pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  The book of bullshit
  
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  April 23, 2022 8:27pm
mikenmildagain

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Scott Hamilton, who sometimes comments here, is the source for this interesting article about a Tauranga museum glorifying the Rhodesian military who fought to maintain white supremacy.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300570733/kiwi-seaside-town-hosts-rhodesian-museum-where-a-racist-regimes-war-is-honoured
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April 23, 2022 8:12am
- Simon
  
  lol – stuff
  
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  April 23, 2022 9:36am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Interesting. I’ve lived in Tauranga for 35 years, and never heard of Lion & Tusk museum. So I googled it – it’s located in an industrial area in Mt. Maunganui.
    By way of comment on the “racist, nazi” regime of Ian Smith, I do recall that Mugabe & his marxist terrorists were in the bush killing white farmers for a number of years, and the Smith government retaliated.
    Then Mugabe took over – white farmers continued to be killed and their farms confiscated, even though this was not supposed to happen. And now Zimbabwe is an economic basket case with people starving, when under the Smith regime it was the food basket of Southern Africa. White farmers were kind to their African workers, housing & teaching them agriculture. Mugabe turned many of the farm workers against their employers and the employers were murdered, the africans took over the farms, and let them stagnate. They even chopped down trees etc. because ‘whitey’ had planted them – & in the process, destroyed the means of the farm’s economic existence.
    So I would not go about crowing how racist the Smith regimes was in Southern Rhodesia/Zimbabwe. I would suggest that the Mugabe was & has been vastly worse & at the same time, destroyed the country. There are faults on both sides. Is it appropriate to say the pot calling the kettle black ?
    
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    April 23, 2022 1:52pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Farmers in this country will be treated like Mugabe treated white farmers if this government gets another term
      
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      April 23, 2022 8:33pm
- bartybart
  
  Mugabe would be proud of Robertson’s inflation
  
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  April 23, 2022 9:40am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    It seems unlikely that Robert Mugabe would have a worshipful museum display in his honour in Tauranga.
    
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    April 23, 2022 11:41am
    - Jack5
      
      Re Milky’s now voted down 8.12 post about a museum exhibition allegedly glorifying Rhodesian resistance …
      
      Scott Hamilton? The Scott Hamilton who led the campaign to make a small-business owner in Akaroa to change the name of his pub from that of an apparently racist pirate.
      
      Scott Hamilton, NZ commentator, who was mistaken on an American Woke blog for a top American Olympic ice skater of the same name?
      
      Scott Hamilton, who defended the use of the words Holocaust and genocide in colonialism’s effect on Maori?
      
      https://twitter.com/SikotiHamiltonR/status/1336765945583263744
      
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      April 23, 2022 12:33pm
- Wayne Mapp
  
  Hmm, 25 ticks that seem to be in support of the Rhodesian apartheid regime.
  
  I have visited the aviation museum and pointed out to them that I thought that particular part of the collection was inappropriate. The displays were explicitly in support of the Smith regime.
  
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  April 23, 2022 9:52am
  - blue collar
    
    In saying that history is history . I’d go to a German war museum , or any museum , it’s not glorifying , it’s just saying this stuff was used at this time by these people .
    Getting outraged by this Is the same mentality that wants to tear down statues .
    It’s historic stuff , learn from it , use it to point out the faults from the respective parties , but don’t act like it never happened or shouldn’t hv . The world is filled with countries invaded and enslaved n slaughtered without exception . It’s normal . Nothing to fear .
    Every country has this in their history , every people on earth does
    If you think the reasons for the Roman’s or British or mongolian or Russian or Chinese or Indian or Turkish or HEAVEN FORBID poxy Rhodesia subjugation are not ok , that’s cool .
    
    Can’t see why you can’t look at stuff from that time and place
    
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    April 23, 2022 10:40am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I think you have a point, but it would be very odd for German immigrants to New Zealand, or anywhere else, after WWII to establish a museum commemorating their service for the fatherland.
      
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      April 23, 2022 11:31am
      - Rodion Raskolnikov
        
        Why? Should some immigrants be allowed to bring their heritage and culture with them, but some not? On what criteria should this be determined? Either all can or none can, otherwise its just an arbitrary distinction. Every culture, without exception, is littered with the good and the bad.
        
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        April 23, 2022 11:43am
      - david
        
        But it is seemingly OK for the Aviation Museum in Blenheim to feature Stukas, Messerschmit, Fokkers and Junkers not to mention German uniforms, boots and coat buttons from both World Wars.
        A bit of consistency one way or the other is called for.
        
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        April 23, 2022 12:10pm
      - Jack5
        
        Milky (11.31 post): a difference is that New Zealand didn’t go to war against the Rhodesian Government, but went to war twice against Germany.
        
        How racist was Rhodesia? I’ve never given the country much thought, but now it would be interesting to know what the colonial regime was like.
        
        Regardless, in changing from a country dominated by a white minority, Zimbabweans threw out the economic baby with the bath water.
        
        Was part of the settlement agreement that white farmers could keep their land? If so, and if that part of the settlement had been kept, surely Zimbabwe wouldn’t have become such an economic basket case.
        
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        April 23, 2022 12:40pm
    - rockape
      
      Yes I have been round the U boat museum, German U boat memorial and U 197 when I was based in Germany.Allat the end of the Kiel Canal.
      
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      April 23, 2022 1:33pm
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      The exhibition was not just a recognition of the war, it took the Smith side, which without question was a racist regime.
      Smith’s UDI, which put virtually all political power into the settlers, was condemned by the entire Commonwealth and subject to strict sanctions. The war was a direct result of UDI.
      New Zealand actually contributed peacekeeping troops when the Smith regime essentially gave up.
      Zimbabwe has been something of a basket case ever since. However, if the normal decolonisation transfer of power had occurred as in Kenya and Tanzania (to use two relevant East African examples) then I suspect Zimbabwe would probably be better governed than it has been following the war.
      
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      April 23, 2022 3:03pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        I think that’s correct Wayne, but was it not Mugabe who declined that arrangement ? In any event, it was Mugabe who destroyed the country, whilst making himself immensly wealthy – classic marxist – and continued suporting the massacre of white farmers. I personally know a few of those who escaped to NZ. Though they acknowledge that the Smith regime was racist to a degree, it was much better for the whites and the blacks than what has transpired.
        
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        April 23, 2022 4:02pm
  - kowtow
    
    Very dangerous territory when we get into this whole “what’s OK to display” stuff.
    
    The US and UK left are tearing down everything they can get their hands on in a neo Cultural Revolution .
    
    Even Churchill is a target .
    
    Arguably black Rhodiesians were better off under Smith than the genocidal , kleptocracy that succeeded him. Indeed many blacks fought and died for said regime .
    
    Here in NZ it could as easily be argued , f you’re a lefty , that any museum display honouring colonial era troops is specifically racist , genocidal , colonialist ……bad .
    
    One could also say that any museum display promoting Te Rauparaha is just so too.
    
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    April 23, 2022 10:42am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I certainly wouldn’t want to ban the ‘refugees from democracy’ from wallowing in nostalgia for their former regime. I doubt many people in New Zealand know enough about Rhodesia/Zimbabwe to care, either.
      But memorials in the public square, for example, are always contestable, and have frequently changed through history. There is no automatic deference to statues, for example, merely because they have been around for a while.
      In NZ, most museums are careful about presenting things in context. It would be a bit odd to have a museum display ‘honouring’ colonial troops without also ‘honouring’ their opponents – after all, both were fighting for what they considered their land, etc. But museum displays are more likely to be presenting information rather than enshrining a cause.
      
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      April 23, 2022 11:39am
      - Stellaboxer
        
        People could always not visit it if they consider it offensive. Just saying. I believe Ian Smith was a Battle of Britain fighter pilot along with many of his compatriots, the 8th Army had many Rhodesian and South African units come to think of it. People were grateful to them back then. Opinions change , morals change it’s how it is. Hopefully we move forward as societies . What some people see as the suppression of native Africans others see as fighting a brutal bush war against Chinese and Soviet backed terrorists. Having said that UDA went against the prevailing philosophy of the common wealth at the time and both Rhodesia and South Africa were already colonial dinosaurs by then IMHO.
        
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        April 23, 2022 1:34pm
    - mogg
      
      Karl Marx made plenty of ‘racist’ comments in his writings, why is he not torn down and condemned,
      Undoubtedly he is given a free pass because it was all for the greater good.
      
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      April 23, 2022 1:02pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I think you will find plenty of statues of Karl Marx have been torn down.
        
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        April 23, 2022 1:44pm
      - Peter S
        
        @mike- maybe some removed, but far too few.
        
        [Deleted – no-one knows mod.]
        
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        April 23, 2022 2:19pm
      - Jack5
        
        Milky, you’ll remember a 5.5 metre statue of Karl Marx was opened at Trier, Germany, his birthplace, just four years ago. It was a gift from China marking the 20oth anniversary of Marx’s birth.
        
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        April 23, 2022 3:56pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I think the Chinese get a bit of a kick out of exporting Marx statues.
        
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        April 23, 2022 5:06pm
  - Cassandra
    
    It’s anti mike, Wayne, don’t read anything else into this. While he often makes an interesting comment, his general approach attracts downs. Not quite as much as Brian but close. Life’s unfair sometimes but you get out of it what you put in. NB I gave him an up.
    
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    April 23, 2022 10:47am
  - Rodion Raskolnikov
    
    I’m sure that they appreciated you pointing out your objections Wayne. While we’re still a nominally free country, we don’t have to agree with each other. I guess some people have a more realistic appreciation of history and how the world works than you liberal ideologues.
    
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    April 23, 2022 11:49am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    It wasn’t an apartheid it was white majority rule. South Africa was apartheid.
    
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    April 23, 2022 2:04pm
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      You mean “white minority”. The colonial settlers were only 10% of the population.
      The only country that supported the Smith regime was apartheid South Africa. All other countries were opposed, including NZ. In fact we applied sanctions against the Smith regime.
      
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      April 23, 2022 3:09pm
      - Jack5
        
        We in NZ apply sanctions against damn near anyone.
        
        We’ll never be a great trading nation. We’re too Woke, too self-righteous.
        
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        April 23, 2022 3:57pm
      - kowtow
        
        Thereby assisting a Marxist , tribalist insurrection resulting in a genocide and kleptocracy . A total collapse of any smidgen of democracy , law and order and mid wifing a failed state.
        
        What’s not be proud of ?
        
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        April 23, 2022 4:24pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    But it’s not compulsory to go, it’s a place to show us why we do not want rotten Marxist regimes here, these mongrels are already working on getting farmers off the land
    
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    April 23, 2022 8:35pm
- fredonas
  
  Interesting article on Sir Bob Jones’ blog from 2019 highlighting the difference between Ian Smith’s house and the Mugabe compound 🙂 https://nopunchespulled.com/2019/09/16/memories-of-mugabe/
  
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  April 23, 2022 12:51pm
Tomtoddy

Details are emerging of even more draconian regulations under He Puapua and RMA reforms. Some are totally absurd, massively expensive and will lead to people refusing to accept them. Farmers are going to be forced to treat their own water supplies, test them regularly, provide ridiculous barriers around their water supply and much much more.

This government is reckless and stupid. They need to go.
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April 23, 2022 8:14am
- Scott
  
  Tom toddy – quite right. I wonder whether they see the writing on the wall and they are determined to ram through as much of their radical ideology as possible before the election?
  
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  April 23, 2022 8:24am
  - artemisia
    
    Next election doesn’t matter, Labour has an absolute majority and an agenda. Can’t blame them for implementing their ideology, and Ms Arden is on the record saying the plan is policies that stick.
    
    Free money works well, extremely sticky. Infrastructure also works well – not the road sort though. Jobs, appointments, contracts, increased benefits and minimum wage, social housing ….
    
    Back in the day National was not able to reverse interest free student loans or working for families. Because free money. They did tweak both though.
    
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    April 23, 2022 12:40pm
- Swifty
  
  Labour and the Greens are control freaks.
  
  They can’t stand the idea that people wish to run their own lives free from government interference.
  
  They also suffer from a Messiah complex – they think they alone can save the world if we would only bend to their will.
  
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  April 23, 2022 8:29am
- Ruahine
  
  Yes, thousands of people in farming communities are sick and dying of contaminated drinking water apparently. Perhaps even far more than who are ‘dying’ from Covid.
  Labour never lets a chance go by to have a swipe at the farming community.
  
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  April 23, 2022 8:36am
- Nickc2
  
  None of that will apply to Maori Land eh?
  
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  April 23, 2022 8:36am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Of course not, they have maori science to ensure everything is organic and perfect. //
    
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    April 23, 2022 9:15am
- kowtow
  
  That’s another fissure this most divisive of govt’s ever has worsened , the urban / rural divide.
  
  So much for bringing people together. Empty , but deceitful , rhetoric.
  
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  April 23, 2022 8:45am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Divide and rule. Look at what they have done in the last 5 years. They have ruptured the fabric of NZ society. Turned families and friends against each other in this ongoing covid circus. Stoked racial divide. Actively pushed the woke alphabet soup agenda when there was good acceptance of all in this country. There was no discrimination until Ardern came in and decided those who don’t do her bidding around the covid jab were to become a sub species.
    Has all this been done just to deflect from her complete failure as a leader or is it part of her ongoing role as a globalist? To push us closer to the UN and Agenda 30? The “Green New Deal”? The “Great Reset”?
    There is no doubt that if the country was functioning normally without all of the other divisive distractions, any attempt to promote any such undemocratic policies would be rightly under the microscope, and likely shut down instantly.
    So are the multiple distractions of the last few years coincidence and being conveniently used as cover for her current absurd policies? Either or, she is without doubt the worst PM in the history of NZ and potentially the most dangerous for the country. Economically and societally.
    
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    April 23, 2022 9:27am
- I remember when
  
  Government is understanding the difference between must haves, best to haves if possible and nice to haves.
  
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  April 23, 2022 8:51am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The level of Control is becoming ridiculous. Horrible little men on your property, testing the water, and instant fining you if it is not up to their standard.
  Get out of our lives you commies.
  
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  April 23, 2022 8:57am
  - Flossie
    
    I’m quite sure it will be an equal opportunity enterprise and there’ll be as many (possibly more) horrible little women on your property!
    
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    April 23, 2022 9:33am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Karens? LOL
      
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      April 23, 2022 10:23am
  - G152
    
    EASY TO CONTROL.
    Make your water source the middle of the bull paddock
    
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    April 23, 2022 10:29am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Looks like fewer than 400 people have been consulted about the fundamental changes that some Maori groups want pushed through
  
  These changes include:
  *Independent Maori Education institutions and governance
  * Separate Maori health Authority
  *Change to Justice System
  
  https://www.teaomaori.news/indigenous-rights-declaration-plan-one-step-closer-implementation
  
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  April 23, 2022 8:58am
  - Bridgenag
    
    Let them go with their own stuff and pay for themselves….. what? …. we have to pay! …… again…… sigh
    
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    April 23, 2022 10:03am
  - plc
    
    Important point….they are not “indigenous”
    
    I’ve seen this description creeping into the media more and more
    
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    April 23, 2022 11:26am
    - Paulus
      
      I believe technically they are all Aboriginal.
      
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      April 23, 2022 1:16pm
  - Rodion Raskolnikov
    
    Why do “indigenous” people demand and receive all the rights, while everyone else is lumped with all the duties to the same people?
    
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    April 23, 2022 11:57am
- Gravelroad
  
  Once upon a time, this sort of baseless interference forced on farming and rural residents could be not ignored exactly, but moderated because it was stuff dreamed up by someone in a city office who would never see if it happened or not – let alone whether their policy dreams were proved to be necessary or successful.
  Now with this government’s expansion of departments and bulk staff fresh out of university on the payroll, this has changed.
  We are already being inspected, monitored, taxed and fined unrelentingly – not just remotely by compulsory devices (eg water monitoring and usage meters) but the state also now has the capacity to do it with personal visits.
  Of course, there will be many people who think this is a great idea because you can’t trust farmers to do the right thing.
  The future will be less livestock and arable production. Just plant trees. It’s easier and less personal.
  
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  April 23, 2022 9:01am
  - pdm
    
    Ahhh so that is why they have doubled the number of public servants since 2017.
    
    GR are you saying that some of them actually leave their desks – that is unheard of in the past. Other than to buy lunch of course.
    
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    April 23, 2022 9:31am
    - Gravelroad
      
      In a post earlier this week, I commented on the recent arrival in our province of young people employed by Govt departments such as MBIE, who turn up at rural community and sector group meetings.
      They are pleasant enough, but what are they here for?
      They offer little information (unless it is easily found on their phones) or assistance.
      Have no idea what is their purpose – except perhaps reporting back to HQ about land and water use issues they see that could do with a bit more regulation.
      Why else would the government be paying people to live in an area to go round attending small meetings and field days other than for some sort of control purpose?
      
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      April 23, 2022 9:53am
- pdm
  
  ideology is all they know.
  
  Inflation has them stuffed because there is nothing in the ideology book that covers it.
  
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  April 23, 2022 9:07am
  - bjools
    
    Oh contraire
    ” The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.” Vladimir Lenin
    It is precisely in their “ideology book”
    At best they don’t care, at worst…they are doing it on purpose.
    
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    April 23, 2022 9:33am
  - wilderbeast
    
    I’m not convinced inflation especially bothers them. They totally get off on the power of tax and spend. And besides, they’re not great accumulators because they’re not conscientious or financially minded. So inflation is not really eroding their life’s work like it is the rest of us…
    
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    April 23, 2022 8:10pm
- Ehlana
  
  Do farmers not “test” their water supply every time they drink from it? I haven’t heard of great illness from this source, so assume the water is passing the test.
  
  As for barriers around the supply, I believe most farms are already fenced off from roads and other public property. So not much danger of the public falling in.
  
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  April 23, 2022 12:59pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  We were warned by Judith, the rotten government said she was lying and scaremongering, she had the full He Puapua report, government told us it was lies, yesterday when Luxon said the Māori health board was not going to happen under Bats, then just like that they started reporting edict and judicial was about to go down the same line, exactly what Judith said was their plan, we have a simple process at next election, vote Labour if you want separatist sectors of society, or vote Nats to stamp that racist shit out, it’s an easy question to answer
  
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  April 23, 2022 8:43pm
Yvette

Water
Attorney-General David Parker deems Rotorua Council’s proposed Māori ward restructure discriminatory
The proposed law was brought to Parliament by Rotorua-based Labour MP Tamati Coffey and was supported by Labour at first reading. But Labour’s own Attorney-General David Parker is now ringing alarm bells.
… changing representation arrangements away from proportional representation therefore creates a disadvantage for non-Māori …
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/04/attorney-general-david-parker-deems-rotorua-council-s-proposed-m-ori-ward-restructure-discriminatory.html

So, from the newly established Water Regulator, Taumata Arowai,
the “missing 4th part” of “3 Waters” –
Framework
(3) Te Mana o te Wai encompasses 6 principles relating to the roles of tangata whenua and other New Zealanders in the management of freshwater, and these principles inform this National Policy Statement and its implementation.
(4) The 6 principles are:
(a) Mana whakahaere: the power, authority, and obligations of tangata whenua to make decisions that maintain, protect, and sustain the health and well-being of, and their relationship with, freshwater
(b) Kaitiakitanga: the obligation of tangata whenua to preserve, restore, enhance, and sustainably use freshwater for the benefit of present and future generations
(c) Manaakitanga: the process by which tangata whenua show respect, generosity, and care for freshwater and for others […]
– Te Mana o te Was, National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management 2020 5
access to pdf – https://www.taumataarowai.govt.nz/te-mana-o-te-wai/

Why is reference made to “tangata whenua and other New Zealanders” but thereafter “tangata whenua”?
Minor as it may seem, is this not also … changing representation arrangements away from proportional representation therefore creates a disadvantage for non-Māori … already in law
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April 23, 2022 8:20am
- Nickc2
  
  The smoke has cleared, but the mirrors still require cleaning!
  
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  April 23, 2022 9:42am
- Southern Raider
  
  Does it not seem to be just slightly hypocritical for them to propose those principles and be all high and mighty about freshwater and the environment, but 95% of Māori don’t live by them.
  
  Have you ever driven through a Māori settlement and gone “they have their shit together. This place has no rubbish, is well cared for, the water ways are separated from stock, native replanting has been done etc”?
  
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  April 23, 2022 10:11am
- oldfella
  
  Yvette:
  
  Taumata Arowai, the “missing 4th part” of “3 Waters”
  
  So 3 Waters has 4 parts? That Maori Maths is real clever, eh, bro? Like that real smart Maori Science.
  
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  April 23, 2022 10:28am
  - Yvette
    
    it would seem so.
    
    However the fourth part of “3 Waters” has become first to be implemented, last mid-November, but with very little publicity because its existence now compensates (or should) for the Havelock North water supply disaster, on which so much of “3 Wates” is based, in fear, but Taumata Arowai blows that argument “out of the water”, so to speak – but nobody really spoke – as pointed out here.
    
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    April 23, 2022 12:34pm
Swifty

Are we all on KB just hateful, racist, misogynists?

I’d welcome everyone’s opinions.

Lately I’ve seen an explosion of comment in the news and social media that anyone opposing Labour policies “just hate Ardern because she’s a woman” or “people opposed to 3 Waters do so because it’s led by a woman, and a Maori woman at that…” etc

I’ve just seen Paul Brislen on LinkedIn say that last one exactly, and his post has attracted much support.

My initial reaction is that such comment is baseless and conveniently sidesteps the major points of criticism directed at 3 Waters.

Speaking personally, I’ve been a major critic of 3 Waters on here but not once have I criticised Mahuta BECAUSE she’s Maori or because she’s a woman – I’ve criticised it for the huge gaping flaws in the policy and because I don’t think it will deliver the outcomes she states it will.

Am I missing something? Is there a huge pool of racist, misogynistic comment online or elsewhere I am missing?

(BTW – I used to see it a lot from Hilary Clinton’s supporters that “they just hate her because she’s a woman, and which I knew was false because from what I saw, heard and read people, including women, didn’t like her because she was such an awful person, told such awful lies and did such awful things.)
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April 23, 2022 8:26am
- kowtow
  
  Simplistic , out of context , irrational and emotion based cliches , used to shut down opponents and debate. This is the post modern world we now live in .The very antithisis of open society and democracy . Very dangerous times .
  
  ps Same thing was used to shut down any crticism of Julia Gillard , “mysogyny”.
  
  Funny though when it’s a conservative female like Thatcher , Palin or Katherine Deves ; it’s open season.
  
  Far left hypocrisy , whipped into a moral panic by the Media Pardy .
  
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  April 23, 2022 9:19am
  - mawm
    
    And because they say it it is true.//s
    
    8 2
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    April 23, 2022 12:25pm
- tf78
  
  I just don’t like people that lie to us and steal our stuff, I don’t care what gender they are.
  
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  April 23, 2022 9:25am
- ClanMcleod
  
  No, it’s how you work out that whoever you are criticising (actually their policies) has no defence of their actions. They resort to baseless ad hominem, gaslighting and deflection.
  It’s refreshing when you see it. They never engage with the actual subject at hand. Try asking a politician or journalist to give you an example of “mis/disinformation”. It’s as futile as shoveling smoke with a barbed wire shovel.
  
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  April 23, 2022 9:35am
  - oldfella
    
    the left loves this stuff, and are doing it with anyone who challenges co-governance.
    GASLIGHTING:
    The classic example of gaslighting is to switch something around on someone that you know they’re sure to notice, but then deny knowing anything about it, and to explain that they “must be imagining things” when they challenge these changes.
    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Gaslighting
    
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    April 23, 2022 10:35am
    - mawm
      
      Yesterday’s GD had some fine examples, mostly done by one prolific poster.
      
      8 2
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      April 23, 2022 12:27pm
- Jade Warrior
  
  I don’t think this blog is full of racist hateful misogynists. Yes many of us are angry and frustrated with the direction the current government is taking the country, but it’s not because we are inherently racist, sexist and so on.
  
  What truly offends me about government initiatives like Three Waters, He Puapua, co-governance and the endless March towards usage of Maori names like “Aotearoa” and so forth is the way they are being implemented – by stealth, without proper consultation with the wider public.
  
  I’m not suggesting that every government initiative needs to be put to referendum, but concepts like co-governance and Three Waters will have far reaching consequences for the future of our nation and I think these things do need a true and full public mandate.
  
  If there was a referendum on these potentially far reaching constitutional changes and the majority of New Zealanders decided they did want them, I would not be angry. I wouldn’t agree with the result of course but I would accept it because I believe in democracy.
  
  And that, I think, is why so many people who post here are angry. We just want to uphold due process and the principles of democracy. Surely that is not too much to ask?
  
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  April 23, 2022 9:38am
- Gravelroad
  
  I don’t hate Ms Ardern or Ms Mahuta.
  I don’t agree with their policies.
  The assertion by the ruling classes that my lack of trust in their work is because they are women is an insult to them and really a just another subtle undermining of the ability of women to be professional in government.
  Mind you, Ms Ardern in particular, has tended to trivialise her position by regularly allowing her private life to feature prominently in the media.
  But push back against political policy because she is a woman is doing her no favours.
  Commenters are just making excuses for their own view of it and are actually saying she needs protection because they see her, deep down, as weak.
  That’s their problem, not hers.
  
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  April 23, 2022 9:38am
  - blue collar
    
    Bang on gravel , it’s 100% their problem
    
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    April 23, 2022 10:50am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Swifty, there’s nothing gender-based or race-based about my distaste for Nanaia Mahuta. Nor do I hate her.
  
  Ask me though if I respect her politics, and you’ll get a very different answer. It’s quite possible to criticise a person’s actions without it being personal criticism or condemnation.
  
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  April 23, 2022 9:51am
  - Ra Henare
    
    When castigating my staff I used to say. You are a good person but I dont like what you did.
    
    9 1
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    April 23, 2022 2:49pm
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    What about the number of people on KB who have denigrated Mahuta for having a moko, which is increasingly common among professional Maori women.
    
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    April 23, 2022 3:15pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Interesting that you mention “professional” – if by that you mean the public service wahine or the media wahine, I think you’re right.
      
      I was in Gisborne a couple of weeks ago. I met & saw many Maori women in shops, markets, on the streets etc, but did not see a single tattooed chin.
      
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      April 23, 2022 3:54pm
    - Jack5
      
      “denigrated” … Mr Mapp, have you looked at the etymology of the word?
      
      From Shorter Oxford, meaning: to blacken, to defame, and listed as “rare”. Stems from niger, Latin for black.
      
      The Woke will cancel this word. They will de-denigrate it.
      
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      April 23, 2022 4:08pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  I know Paul Brislen well – he’s been a rabid lefty all his life and won’t change now. He’s knowledgeable about the tech space and writes well when he sticks to the facts.
  
  Like all those who support the radical ideological socialist (if not marxist) agenda being rammed through by this useless government, he has no logic, facts or rationale to justify his position. Therefore he can only make personal attacks or cast aspersions at those who – reasonably and with facts – question this divisive race-based initiative. Safe to ignore.
  
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  April 23, 2022 10:07am
  - Gravelroad
    
    So in Mr Brislen’s world, people should not question or disagree with a political party’s output because the leader is a woman?
    Isn’t that a bit sexist?
    That suggests that Ms Ardern is not seen as a top professional politician but as some sort of soft figurehead who needs protecting.
    Can’t the likes of Mr Brislen see that by labelling detractors as misogynists he is actually undermining Ms Ardern’s leadership?
    
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    April 23, 2022 12:29pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Of course he can’t! He has blinkers on, and probably thinks he’s being gallant…
      
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      April 24, 2022 2:11pm
- The Feed
  
  It means “shut up”, stated in a nasty way.
  
  I don’t hate any of these politicians. I don’t know them as people and couldn’t care less about them enough to hate them. I’m only interested in their policies.
  
  And their policies are godawful, divisive, wasteful and should be shredded.
  
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  April 23, 2022 11:08am
  - Hebe123
    
    Well I do hate one or two of them as they are horrible vindictive people who are deliberately destroying our country. Like she who said “yip yip, that’s exactly what we are doing” (wrt creating a two tier society). She has destroyed the lives of so many people, while at the same time lieing and pretending to be all kindness and empathy, so yes, I loathe her more than I would think it possible to loathe someone I’ve never met in person.
    
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    April 23, 2022 8:36pm
- rouppe
  
  Those retorts of racism or misogyny are simply distractions to avoid addressing the matter at hand.
  
  Classic left wing tactic
  
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  April 23, 2022 1:39pm
- wilderbeast
  
  You’re missing nothing Swifty. Stay strong.
  
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  April 23, 2022 8:11pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  No, the anger is not racist, but the Māori so called Māori caucus have got an agenda, this is the problem, note Jackson was shouts about it while Cindy is away? They say there is division in cabinet, that division is causing the racist lies, and if you sit back and not call it for what it is, then the likes of racist Jackson will get their way
  
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  April 23, 2022 8:50pm
Paulus

This Government cannot be allowed to go as they are dependemt upon the goodwill of the large Maori Caucus.
These Te Puapua, RMA, and Three Waters are all going to be under Maori Control hence the ned to maintain Ardern and her cohorts.
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April 23, 2022 8:29am
cas

With the willie Jackson inspired reforms for more autonomy for Maori, is he suggesting we have a separate education system and separate justice system etc and give them 16% of the money in the current specific budgets to do it all themselves ( based on their population) ? Or do I feel a Tui ad coming on
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April 23, 2022 8:36am
- Simon
  
  Significant proportion of Maori can’t make it in multi cultural NZ. Major problem.
  
  26 2
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  April 23, 2022 9:44am
- Southern Raider
  
  Kind of but suggest will be 50% of the education budget for 16% of the population, noting the Māori elite will also still continue to send their kids to private schools
  
  19 1
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  April 23, 2022 10:13am
  - oldfella
    
    but not charter schools, which were working wonders for many Maori kids, but didn’t please the Teacher’s Union. Which meant charter schools had to go under Labour
    
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    April 23, 2022 10:44am
- Grunt
  
  Under co-governance it would be 50% wouldn’t it?
  
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  April 23, 2022 10:22am
- Ehlana
  
  I have no problem with citizens of a free country being allowed to organise their own education, health care, etc. They should be entitled to public funding based on the numbers of people who voluntarily enroll with their service and the needs of those people. They would need to meet appropriate standards for their activities, account for their spending of public money, and make public their outcomes.
  
  To avoid such groups becoming too insular, they would need to enrol a percentage of people from outside their target group. That shouldn’t be hard for those providing good quality service.
  
  Of course, this would apply whether the group was Maori or Malayasian, Buddhist or Brethen, etc.
  
  Somehow, I’m not sure the current advocates for Maori this and that are so keen on the idea of other groups have the same choices.
  
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  April 23, 2022 1:13pm
- rouppe
  
  How could you have a separate justice system?
  
  If a crime occurred against a Maori by a non – Maori, or vice versa, which justice system would it sit under? And who would believe the other system treated them fairly?
  
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  April 23, 2022 1:36pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    It means let criminal non whites get away with criminal activity
    
    3 1
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    April 23, 2022 8:53pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Hard to run separate Maori prisons on just 16% of the current budget
  
  6 0
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  April 23, 2022 3:56pm
- Jim
  
  Does self governance mean self financing too?
  
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  April 23, 2022 7:38pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Nope, we have to pay.
    
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    April 23, 2022 8:53pm
ClanMcleod

There has never been a more inept and dangerous group of people in charge of this country. In fact, there is a possibility it isn’t ineptitude and is a deliberate policy. That is of major concern. Either way, this group of clowns need gone asap.
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April 23, 2022 8:42am
- Inandout
  
  … [deleted] you commented previously ‘I don’t do politics so don’t totally understand the machinations’. Welcome to reality…politics is a filthy profession practiced by many of the 120 MPs.
  
  20 2
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  April 23, 2022 8:52am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    I’ve slowly come to understand that during the covid circus and I’m still in a state of some disbelief. I didn’t previously enter into the world of politics, I must have had good survival instincts, it’s a nasty, petty environment filled with nasty, petty narcissists in the main.
    I’m sure there are some well meaning people among them but they don’t seem to be able to rise through the sewage. Deceit and subterfuge seems to be the only way to achieve in that environment.
    It’s disturbing, it wasn’t always like that surely? Somehow it needs to change.
    
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    April 23, 2022 9:41am
    - Rodion Raskolnikov
      
      In a sentence, we are governed by all of the worst people and thus all of those who should never be anywhere near the levers of power.
      
      13 3
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      April 23, 2022 12:09pm
- pdm
  
  `There has never been a more inept and dangerous group of people in charge of this country.’
  
  And so say all of us
  
  Except for Mikey, John Pakes, Brian MacDonald and some new troll who turned up on GD yesterday.
  
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  April 23, 2022 9:12am
  - leoj
    
    You omitted moderator Batman……….
    
    24 2
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    April 23, 2022 10:12am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    Look what you’re doing. Rather than engage with ideas, you simply dismiss anybody who might be a bit further towards the centre than you.
    
    This kind of “people’s front of Judea” stuff is supposed to be the province of the Left. The rest of us are supposed to be broad-minded, tolerant and open to debate and civil discourse. The presence of people prepared to put forward alternative views should be welcomed as an opportunity to test our own thinking and ensure that it stands up to challenge.
    
    We’ve often called out the Left’s habit of attempting to shut down debate by crying “racist”, “TERF” etc when they’ve no actual arguments.
    Well then – let’s be better.
    
    8 4
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    April 23, 2022 11:56am
    - mawm
      
      To engage with the ideas espoused by those mentioned is futile. As you say when trying to have a reasonable debate with anyone on the left and using fact it is futile because they simply cannot defend their ideas and rapidly descend into calling one a fascist, a Hitler, a misogynist or a racist. It is far easier to avoid them.
      
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      April 23, 2022 12:41pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I feel a bit sorry for you.
        
        4 6
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        April 23, 2022 1:46pm
- Ruahine
  
  This is deliberate Policy. They know that they have to get it through before September 2023. They also know that it is likely even with a change of Gov’t most will stay as legislation.
  
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  April 23, 2022 9:16am
  - oldfella
    
    Come on, Mr Luxon. Time for some plain speaking from you on a range of such racially-divisive issues.
    You may think you’re speaking out, but it’s not cutting through. Speak louder!
    
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    April 23, 2022 10:48am
    - chukar
      
      Hear hear Oldfella,
      We need leaders to have the courage to say no!
      Where are you Mr Luxon??
      
      17 0
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      April 23, 2022 11:58am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        How the hell do you not hear his comments on He Puapua , 3 waters, separatist agenda this week?
        
        1 2
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        April 23, 2022 9:00pm
    - Paulus
      
      Patience is needed – it is too early to present serious opposition which would be poo pooed by the paid for media.
      Labour are in a very big hole – let them carry on digging.
      
      11 0
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      April 23, 2022 1:24pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Why the hell don’t you listen to him more closely FFS, he has ruled out any services like the Māori health commission, he has Alastair’s that separatist He Puapua poison is a. O no, what more do you want, I total agree with him that we do not know what co-governance means under this rotten regime, if Jackson is telling us not to be scared, then you should be scared
      
      2 1
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      April 23, 2022 8:59pm
- kowtow
  
  Definitely deliberate policy.
  
  That does not preclude ineptitude . They pretend and the Media Pardy goes along with it that Robbo is a safe pair of hands with the accounts , but he’s not and none in their caucus is .
  
  Likewise any other handling of matters productive , industrial or wealth creating . They haven’t a clue , but do pretend .
  
  Carbon zero is lunacy on steroids and all her promised priorities have crashed and burned ;housing , crime , child poverty , none of them got past the starters gun.
  
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  April 23, 2022 10:32am
- wilderbeast
  
  Agreed. If they win the next election and we have another 4-5 years of this I believe they’ll have left NZ in tatters. I fear for my kid’s future. See the bad in everything and the good in nothing and pull the country apart thread by thread, can’t see it ending well.
  
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  April 23, 2022 8:14pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Will the rest of NZ ever get consulted about the proposed changes to how our Country is governed?

https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2022/04/22/buzz-from-the-beehive-the-people-are-being-consulted-hurrah-but-most-must-wait-to-see-jacksons-declaration-plan/

and
https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2022/04/21/democracy-and-voter-equality-is-all-greek-to-coffey-but-he-does-favour-tweaking-the-electoral-system-to-give-us-a-treatocracy/

This is the guts of the matter:
Democracy is Greek; Our Parliamentary process is English – It’s time to have an Aotearoan “treatocracy”
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April 23, 2022 8:44am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  For those that may have missed this yesterday:
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/465708/government-begins-drafting-indigenous-rights-plan
  
  29 1
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  April 23, 2022 8:49am
  - Flossie
    
    But Maori are immigrants, like the rest of the population – albeit a bit earlier. Their own (oral) history tells of the arrival of the great fleet. Indigenous they are not.
    
    29 2
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    April 23, 2022 9:37am
    - Unity
      
      The Nga Puhi elder, David Rankin, said that in everything he’s ever been told it in stories handed down was that when each canoe arrived there were always people here before them. Maori are definitely not indigenous and it is time this was opposed loudly and clearly every time it is brought up otherwise it is going to stick as fact.
      
      29 3
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      April 23, 2022 9:56am
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      By that measure there are hardly any indigenous people anywhere.
      I have always assumed that indigenous means the first people in a place who have a distinctive language and culture developed in that place.
      Clearly Maori qualify. They were the first here. Their language and culture are distinctive from those of Tahiti or The Cooks. Obviously Maori are derived from them, but the separation and isolation of 500 years was sufficient for Maori to be distinctive. I agree it is not a long period compared to Aboriginal people (50,000 years) or North America (12,000 years). However it is a similar timeframe to Hawaii, Tahiti and associated islands, and The Cooks. Settlement in these places was only a few hundred years ahead of Maori. In fact Hawaii is only 100 or 200 years longer.
      It is long enough for Maori to be qualify as indigenous.
      
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      April 23, 2022 3:28pm
      - wilderbeast
        
        Fine, be that as it may. But what next?
        
        1 0
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        April 23, 2022 8:15pm
      - Hebe123
        
        Moriori?
        
        2 0
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        April 23, 2022 8:41pm
      - Nickc2
        
        1 uptick by mistake. Should be downtick.
        
        0 0
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        April 23, 2022 9:24pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  All’s good – Jacinda calls it partnership
  
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  April 23, 2022 8:58am
  - Unity
    
    The Crown can’t go into partnership with its people and this needs to be pointed out each time it comes up.
    
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    April 23, 2022 9:57am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Will Musk get to sue the Board Members arses?
They have to act in the interests of the shareholders, not in their own interests.
Musk has them by the short and curly, grab ’em by the pussy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DONFizbVXUg
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April 23, 2022 8:51am
- Inandout
  
  SO, just so we are fully informed on this issue:
  
  ‘A hostile takeover occurs when an acquiring company attempts to take over a target company against the wishes of the target company’s management.
  An acquiring company can achieve a hostile takeover by going directly to the target company’s shareholders or fighting to replace its management.
  Hostile takeovers may take place if a company believes a target is undervalued or when activist shareholders want changes in a company.
  A tender offer and a proxy fight are two methods in achieving a hostile takeover.
  Target companies can use certain defenses, such as the poison pill or a golden parachute, to ward off hostile takeovers’.
  
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  April 23, 2022 9:19am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It seems the Board Members have very few shares.
    I am not a share Guru, but I do understand numbers.
    
    8 2
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    April 23, 2022 10:34am
michael_s2

Claire Trevett mentions in her Herald column today that Talbot Mills Research (Labour’s pollsters) have National ahead of Labour in their latest poll. No surprise there, but neither I, nor Mr Google, can find any report on this.
Remember how last year when Labour was well ahead in the polls, the TalbotMills result was “leaked” every month? How can Trevett casually mention the latest poll in a column but not report it in her news columns?
If Google and I both missed it,I apologise.
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April 23, 2022 9:09am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  She clearly has been leaked it, and Cindy is off shore, I have seen stirring from Jackson, and Parker while she has been away, so she will have been leaked it from within
  
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  April 23, 2022 9:05pm
curry4me

https://www.bitchute.com/video/1-0PAjeHe1Q/

DeSantis Crushes Woke Disney as Redistricting Wipes Out Dems!
Florida Governor Ron DeSantis absolutely CRUSHES Disney all as Florida’s new redistricting map completely wipes out any and all gains made by the Democrats! In this video we’re going to look at the latest bill that will soon become law that is pushing back against Disney’s wokeness, we’re going to see how the new redistricting guarantees Florida will be deep, deep red for the next decade, and stick with me to the very end of this video when I’ll show you how this recipe for crushing the Democrats is being repeated over and over again. [10:42]
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April 23, 2022 9:13am
- MCōs
  
  “redistricting map completely wipes out any and all gains made by the Democrats”
  
  Just so I don’t have to watch through a ten minutes video, how is that done?
  Can it be done here?
  
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  April 23, 2022 9:46am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    The individual states in the US are responsible for determining their congressional districts. This make it possible for a party holding a majority to gerrymander the districting process to make it much easier to maintain their majority. There are some federal restrictions on this process, but many of these have been limited or abolished in recent years by the supreme court.
    Some states have independent districting processes.
    It matters for nationwide elections because states with permanent partisan control then have the power to make voting in federal election harder or easier, as they choose.
    In NZ, proportional representation means that the electorate drawing process is less relevant to a party’s hold on power. And the representation commission was always a bipartisan body.
    
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    April 23, 2022 12:40pm
    - rouppe
      
      Except Labour is trying to eliminate proportional representation in New Zealand
      
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      April 23, 2022 1:31pm
  - curry4me
    
    Not here. It is based on US census information. Democrats, and Republicans take turns. This time around, it was the Republicans turn.
    
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    April 23, 2022 8:27pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIkcT2LfmLk
China Trying to Build a Military Base near Australia.
China is trying to build a base near Australia and New Zealand, which would significantly change the balance of power in the region. In this episode of China Unscripted, we discuss China’s plan to build a base in the Solomon Islands, what happened during protests against Chinese influence there, and how leaked plans for a China base is forcing the US, Australia, and New Zealand to pivot to the region. Joining us in this episode is Cleo Paskal, a non-resident senior fellow for the Indo-Pacific at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. She’s also a member of the Global Counter Terrorism Council. [9:50]
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April 23, 2022 9:14am
- Matt Long
  
  Just leaked, footage of the Chi Com baase near Australia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Parliament_Buildings
  
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  April 23, 2022 9:39am
- Rodion Raskolnikov
  
  Is it possible for Australia, New Zealand (and presumably the US) to object to China’s military expansion into our region, presumably done with the consent of the sovereign nation involved (the Solomon Islands), on the grounds of the threat posed by China through this expansion, while at the same time condemning Russia for adopting precisely the same stance vis a vis NATO’s expansion into Russia’s neighbourhood? I can’t see how they can square that circle without being openly hypocritical. I guess these matters are all about rational calculations with respect to particular interests, and nothing at all to do with what is right or wrong after all.
  
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  April 23, 2022 1:27pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Last I checked, Australia and New Zealand have not ~~invaded the~~ conducted a special military operation in Solomon Islands to prevent the government there doing what it chooses.
    
    8 2
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    April 23, 2022 1:49pm
    - Rodion Raskolnikov
      
      We would if we could, but we can’t, so we don’t. That is the only distinction. Would we like China out of the Solomons? Yes, because it’s in our interests, but we have no capacity to act. Would Russia like Ukraine out of NATO? Yes, because it’s in their interests, but unlike us, they have the capacity to act and have acted.
      
      At the level of principle, the inconsistency comes when we deny that Russia has any legitimate interest in Ukraine’s alliances. The case for condemning Putin is that he has no interest in Ukraine’s affairs, which is demonstrably false. By the same standard, we can’t have a legitimate interest in the alliances of the Solomons. We cannot have it both ways, unless we concede that the Ukraine situation is not a moral issue in the slightest, but is all about competing interests.
      
      The reality is that Russia has an interest in keeping Ukraine out of a NATO alliance, just as we and our allies have an interest in keeping the Solomons out of an alliance with China. But we are asked to believe that Russia is “wrong.” False. They simply have interests, just as everyone else does.
      
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      April 23, 2022 2:52pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Putin (or Russia – in dictatorships personality and country are indistinguishable) – has no legitimate interest in Ukraine that warrants an invasion.
        NATO didn’t even want Ukraine as a member and, even if it did, Russia has no right of veto over other counties’ military or diplomatic arrangements.
        The result of the war already looks to be a ruined Ukraine, with parts of the smouldering wreck able to hoist a tattered Russian flag, a weakened Russia and a strengthened, enlarged and more unified NATO as Finland and Sweden also look to join.
        
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        April 23, 2022 4:23pm
      - stiff cheese
        
        mike,
        
        Actually, NATO did want Ukraine as a member.
        
        That’s why they made them a “NATO Enhanced Opportunities Partner”.
        
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        April 23, 2022 5:38pm
      - Ehlana
        
        Actually Rodion, the case for condemning Putin is that he has invaded another country, where his troops are bombing people in their homes, firing on them as they attempt to flee, kidnapping, raping, torturing and killing the population at will.
        
        That is not the exercise of a legitimate interest. It is savagery.
        
        The argument that nuclear-armed Russia is so afraid of its non-nuclear neighbour forming alliances with other nations that it has to make war upon them is on a par with those men who claim that a woman walking around on her own in her own choice of clothing is so provocative that they can’t stop themselves from raping her. It is pathetic.
        
        And increasingly, recognised as such and rejected.
        
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        April 25, 2022 11:09am
fightingtemeraire

Solution to Willie Jackson’s plans

1 Say that the number of people on the Maori Roll is 10% of the voting population. Then 10% of all GST and Tax is taken less an allowance for roading, defence, MFAT etc.

2 Maori are given that monay and told here we are you run your medical and educational requirements from that and you get no more money from the General Account
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April 23, 2022 9:25am
- Cassandra
  
  A better idea would be to give them what they contribute less the amount spent on things for all of us. Then go paddle your own waka. Or on turning 21 you can opt to be on the general roll or on the Maori one, irrevocably.
  
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  April 23, 2022 10:56am
  - rouppe
    
    Both of these ideas would require an id card declaring ones racial status in order to stop gaming both sets of funding anyway.
    
    Not something I’d ever want to see here, no matter the troubles we have.
    
    Universal health care with the same amount of access for everyone. If some choose to not use it because someone doesn’t say te nga koi, that’s up to them. There is no culturally appropriate way to treat an infection, or bone break, or cut.
    
    Having learned the science of being a doctor, and qualified as such, if any given doctor wants to wrap their culture around it – be it Maori, Chinese, African, whatever – do it, that’s up to you.
    
    Same with teaching. The core expectation is science, English and maths, with achievement expectations in those. Everything else is optional, so if you want to and can, wrap cultural elements around that in a way that doesn’t disadvantage other students.
    
    There doesn’t need to be separate funding to achieve that, just commitment from the staff.
    
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    April 23, 2022 1:28pm
blue collar

Somethings up in the OIA office .
Even STUFF are running articles complaining of failed requests and inadequate responses .
With examples .
Hate to say it but well done STUFF
There’s hope yet
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April 23, 2022 9:32am
- Phronesis
  
  Every ministry handles their own OIA requests. The time taken to find relevant documents is a good measure of how well organised a ministry is. The time taken to release said documents is a good measure of how fast the minister can read.
  
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  April 23, 2022 11:56am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Ministries and departments release their own information in response to requests. Ministers release information only when it is ‘held’ by them as distinct from a government agency. Having said that, agencies routinely advise Minister of information they are releasing, under the ‘no surprise’ policy, This naturally lends itself to ministerial interference.
    There was a good story by Stuff last year showing how many agencies ‘game’ the statistics by artificially stopping the clock to make their OIA response time appear more favourable.
    
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    April 23, 2022 12:25pm
  - blue collar
    
    Oh ok , thanks , one was in regard to the substance allegedly thrown at officers , what testing was done , off clothes etc , what was it ?
    So I guess that’s the police minister not replying ?
    Not surprised
    
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    April 23, 2022 2:38pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      That’s not information that the police minister would ‘hold’ – that request would be to the police.
      
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      April 23, 2022 4:24pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    They have been stifled by a corrupt regime, just like the Reserve bank has been dictated too, no we are in a huge mess
    
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    April 23, 2022 9:09pm
blue collar

TARANAKI is cranking , could barely get a table for dinner last night , zero accomodation this weekend , fully booked , synthony in the bowl a big outdoor event ( electric orchestra dance party ) , suns shining , snapper biting , surfs Le swell with offshore winds …..
Brenda is offshore , the boys are in town and even the wife has a twinkle in her eye ….

It doesn’t get any better than this

Unless we get the log of wood back n it’s whitebait season 👌
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April 23, 2022 9:39am
- plc
  
  The people of Taranaki voted for this government…..glad you’re enjoying the consequences
  
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  April 23, 2022 11:34am
  - blue collar
    
    Hah ! 😅none of that has to do with the govt
    
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    April 23, 2022 2:40pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  NPC draw not made yet, but Taranaki and Hawke’s Bay are in different pools, so less chance of a Taranaki challenge this year.
  
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  April 23, 2022 12:32pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    What do you mean in different pools, unless they are in different divisions then maybe, but half the shield match’s are from the other divisions, what’s this different pool crap?
    
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    April 23, 2022 9:13pm
- Paulus
  
  Tauranga despite its unelected (now re-elected by Mahuta) Commissioner is boomong too !
  Spend before inflation catches up.
  
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  April 23, 2022 1:28pm
curry4me

Q: What’s the difference between a Nigerian scammer and a ‘journalist’?
A: The Nigerian scammer hasn’t sold out to the government.

Q: Who’s Talking to Chris Wallace?
A: Nobody after March 31st.
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April 23, 2022 9:43am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  I note he has not been on Fox lately, but I thought his son got shafted?
  
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  April 23, 2022 9:14pm
Maggie Pie

Home alone for the next couple of days.
My partner and his mate pulled out early this morning and headed down to Waikato. They’ve taken a family pack of Decoys and a big bag of Maize to put out around the Maimai.

Thort this worth sharing when it popped up on Twitter 😀

If it was New Zealand, it’d be….

* LABOUR/ GREENS

* NATIONAL/ACT

https://twitter.com/America1Scotty/status/1517310355600556036
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April 23, 2022 9:45am
- Colville
  
  Not New Zealand as the fatties would be covered in tattoos if they were from here.
  
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  April 23, 2022 9:55am
Swifty

A little thought experiment.

Obviously, there is much going on in our society these days driven by the assertion that Maori are ‘indigenous’ and that indigenous people must be afforded special privileges. The argument seems to me to be that Maori are indigenous to NZ because they were the first people here and that this is where they gained ‘their identity’.

That Maori are ‘indigenous’ to New Zealand hasn’t sat well with me for two primary reasons:

1. Growing up, I was always taught that ‘indigenous’ meant ‘native to’ or ‘originating from’, neither of which is correct for Maori as they themselves both believe and state – that they arrived here by canoe, relatively recently, and from ‘Hawaiki’, somewhere else in Polynesia.

2. Being labelled ‘indigenous’ puts them on a par with the native peoples of Australia, for example, who measure their time in Aussie in the tens of thousands of years – and there is really no comparison.

But here’s my point. In historical terms Maori beat others to NZ by the blink of an eye.

As far as we currently know, (people we now know as) Taiwanese folk jumped on their boats around 3,500 BCE and then spent the next nearly 5,000 years reaching further and further out into the Pacific to eventually land in NZ a mere 400 years before other people also came across the same landmass.

I wonder if Europeans had arrived first, as they most easily could have, would they now be regarded as indigenous to NZ?

How would non-Europeans regard ‘indigenous’ white NZers claiming special privileges accordingly.

And, a most interesting issue, if native-Brits in the UK started down this ‘indigenous peoples’ track and awarded themselves special privileges over non-Europeans, would they be swanned over by the left, their efforts applauded and praised – or would they be labelled horrible racists deserving of hatred and scorn?
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April 23, 2022 9:59am
- blue collar
  
  Explain the kaimanawa wall and stone domes in Waipoua forest n I’ll buy in yo Maori first
  
  Why did the govt shut down the kaimanawa dig ?
  Why are we banned from the forest ?
  
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  April 23, 2022 10:47am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Are many people still buying that pseudo-archaeological nonsense?
    
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    April 23, 2022 11:54am
  - CJames
    
    If you think the Kaimanawa wall is proof of an older civilisation, you really are away with the fairies. There are lots of rock formations just like that all around CNI and all naturally made by cooling lava, then subsequent erosion.
    
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    April 23, 2022 11:59am
    - rouppe
      
      Cool! I’m going up to Taupo in a few weeks, can you point me at a couple of others so I can go see this wonderful natural phenomenon?
      
      Google doesn’t seem to know about them, unlike the Kaimanawa one…
      
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      April 23, 2022 1:09pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  Just substitute the word “brown” for indigenous in every place you see it and it will all make sense. It’s completely wrong, but it will make sense.
  
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  April 23, 2022 11:23am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The latest work on some of the ancestors of the East
  Polynesian settlers who arrived in NZ 650 years ago.
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/23/new-clues-shed-light-on-pivotal-moment-in-the-great-pacific-migration
  
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  April 23, 2022 11:36am
- mikenmildagain
  
  The terms ‘aboriginal’ and ‘indigenous’ have become synonymous in contemporary usage.
  I don’t know if there is a useful distinction to be made in terms of the amount of time a people arrived somewhere to qualify as indigeneous. Where would you draw the line, and what purpose would it serve?
  Taiwan is a fascinating place. It’s indigenous people (with common Austronesian ancestors of Maori) have, of course, long been marginalised and suppressed by the Chinese conquerors.
  Your example of Britain is completely different. The English are not a minority in their own land, despite some English people being a bit worried that they might be overwhelmed by people of the wrong nationality, ethnicity or religion.
  
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  April 23, 2022 12:03pm
  - Swifty
    
    You know, in all those words I don’t think you’ve addressed a single one of my points.
    
    You’ve just swerved all around them.
    
    Well done, I suppose.
    
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    April 23, 2022 12:17pm
    - Jack5
      
      When does someone stop being “indigenous” or start being “indigenous”?
      
      Take an Aucklander born in New Zealand to, say, Tongan-born or Samoan-born parents. If their child returns to the parents’ homeland to live, is their NZ-born child an indigenous Tongan or an indigenous Samoan?
      
      Are White New Zealanders indigenous Europeans if they live in Europe? Can White or other non-Maori New Zealanders ever be indigenous to this country?
      
      Are all the world’s people, the Homo sapiens, indigenous to Africa, where the species began?
      
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      April 23, 2022 1:10pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Yup. We all come from the Great Rift Valley.
        
        Not sure that Kenya is handing out passports to all & sundry, tho.
        
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        April 23, 2022 4:04pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Sorry.
      Yes, both Maori and the Australian aboriginal tribes are indigenous, having clearly become the first peoples in their respective territories. I don’t think the much longer time between aboriginal settlement of Australia and colonisation versus the Maori arrival here and colonisation is relevant.
      It is also helpful to bear in mind the definition of indigenous peoples adopted by the UN:
      
      Indigenous communities, peoples, and nations are those that, having a historical continuity with pre-invasion and pre-colonial societies that developed on their territories, consider themselves distinct from other sectors of the societies now prevailing in those territories, or parts of them. They form at present non-dominant sectors of society and are determined to preserve, develop, and transmit to future generations their ancestral territories, and their ethnic identity, as the basis of their continued existence as peoples, in accordance with their own cultural patterns, social institutions and legal systems.
      
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      April 23, 2022 4:39pm
      - Swifty
        
        Thank you Mike.
        
        Yes, very helpful to see that the UN definition of indigenous is now worlds away from what I was taught and dictionaries still define as the meaning of the word i.e. native to or originating from.
        
        How wonderful that they can just change the meanings of words to suit themselves.
        
        I wonder what word the UN uses to describe people originating from or native to a place but where they remain the most numerous? Clearly not indigenous according to the UN definition.
        
        That may come as a surprise to many English, Scots, Welsh and Irish I know.
        
        I wonder too, given that I understand that there were waves of Pacific migration to New Zealand (Maori didn’t all arrive at once), did the subsequent waves who came into conflict with the earlier arrivals, do they count as colonisers? Or do the subsequent folk count as indigenous too? According to the UN it would only be the first lot wouldn’t it?
        
        When one of the chiefs of 500 or so Taranaki Maori who sailed out to the Chathams in 1835 and proceeded to exterminate the now quite distinct Moriori present, who spoke a now quite different language, and enslaved the few remaining, was asked about it later said “We took possession… in accordance with our customs and we caught all the people. Not one escaped…..” do they retain ‘indigenous’ status or do they now take on the role of invader or coloniser?
        
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        April 23, 2022 7:40pm
      - Swifty
        
        I wonder too if it has occurred to some that, according to the UN definition, Maori will soon not qualify as indigenous.
        
        To qualify, according to the UN, a people must “form at present non-dominant sectors of society”.
        
        If the Maori-elite, Labour and the Greens have their way in a few short years Maori will absolutely be dominant as so will no longer meet the definition.
        
        I wonder if that has occurred to any of them.
        
        No doubt though the UN will just come to their rescue and redefine ‘indigenous’ once again to suit the new circumstances.
        
        🙂
        
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        April 23, 2022 7:52pm
  - rouppe
    
    I was born in Rotorua. I have no claim to any other passport.
    
    So it would serve the purpose of validating my right to be here as equal to anyone else in the same situation
    
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    April 23, 2022 1:12pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Taiwan is a fascinating place. It’s indigenous people (with common Austronesian ancestors of Maori) have, of course, long been marginalised and suppressed by the Chinese conquerors.
    
    You seem to have omitted the Dutch, the Spanish and the Japanese… who all have colonised Taiwan since the early 17th Century
    
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    April 23, 2022 1:19pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I think there were Chinese settlers there before the European and Japanese conquerors.
      
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      April 23, 2022 1:59pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        There was trade and probably assimilation between coastal Taiwanese natives and some Chinese (not necessarily Han) as well as with folks from Philipines and probably Indonesia.
        https://www.jstor.org/stable/2562018
        
        But our first written records begin with the Dutch Colonisation in 1624…and they encouraged/brought in Han Chinese settlers in the 1640s.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Formosa#Growing_Han_presence_and_the_Guo_Huaiyi_Rebellion_(1643%E2%80%931659)
        
        The Japanese were pretty thorough in getting rid of some of the indigenous folk
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musha_Incident#/media/File:%E4%BA%8C%E6%AC%A1%E9%9C%A7%E7%A4%BE%E4%BA%8B%E4%BB%B6.jpg
        
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        April 23, 2022 2:19pm
- Phronesis
  
  Are Europeans indigenous to Antarctica?
  
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  April 23, 2022 12:04pm
- Paulus
  
  Maori should be grateful the British arrived when they did shortly before the French, because had they got here first there would be no Maori.
  
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  April 23, 2022 1:31pm
- Yvette
  
  regardless of the indigenous argument – Maori 400 years v Australian aboriginals 40,000 years prior to Europeans – or 7 waka of earliest New Zealand immigrants, both are still kindergarten sand-pit claims of “I was here first” now faced with “But there are more of us, so we win”
  
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  April 23, 2022 2:48pm
Tomtoddy

Two 15 year olds and a 14 year old very deliberately and unprovoked used the pretext of needing a toilet to enter a 90 year old’s house where they mercilessly assaulted and robbed her. She died of her injuries. She was punched in the face.

They used the woman’s credit card and cash to buy lollies, cigarettes and a hoodie.

Two of them got detention as though that is some form of punishment. It is a small inconvenience and heavily abused. The third got sent to prison but just over 2 years later she is being released. There is no sign of remorse.

They will most likely be back into the same cycle of drugs, theft, crime, assaults, welfare payments within hours of release. It is clear that the justice system is badly broken. It has given up, directed by politicians keen to see improved stats and weak judges, letting criminals back into the community to repeat their misdeeds.

What to do? More kids opt to go on welfare. Drugs are rife and easy to get. Crime is barely punished. We are into third and fourth generation criminal families. Gangs provide support and drugs without any repucussions. Police are busy filling in forms and directed to harrass decent citizens for offending ideological sensitivities.

Where is there a political party with the balls to tackle growing crime? Where are the workable policies? Where is there even a desire to fix the mess? My vote will be decided next election in good measure by any party’s plans to take crime head on and turn around this blight in our community.
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April 23, 2022 10:04am
- Nickc2
  
  I agree with your sentiments entirely. However, as soon as somebody puts their head up to do something about it, they’re labeled racist and openly lambasted by the MSM and Govt. In a country like ours (while we still have it), this is easy to do because our offspring have been conditioned to value Socialism as their preferred way of life and this is ably assisted by our current Govt.
  However, that doesn’t mean there’s nothing we can do about it. IMO, there is and we should.
  Let’s start with removing this Govt and then clean out the Education fraternity followed by the MSM if they haven’t seen the errors of their ways and made drastic and radical changes in terms of ownership and independent editorial direction.
  
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  April 23, 2022 10:29am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Bill English recognised this & made a start, knowing that a multi generational problem may well take multiple generations to resolve.
  
  Jacinda & co abandoned Bill’s policies as being ‘unkind’.
  
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  April 23, 2022 4:08pm
Bobba Fret

Its good to be a public servant.
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/revealed-thousands-of-high-salaried-public-servants-get-pay-rises-despite-government-s-pay-freeze/ar-AAWt6lt?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=88bc312df9bb45b2a27a58a6afa56ca8
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April 23, 2022 10:05am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Apart from this, there has been an avalanche of people moving to higher-paid positions in other agencies. Yes, the taxpayer funds government departments to compete with each other for staff.
  Both of these trends are just an acceleration of what has happened since a unified public service was dismantled in the 1980s and 1990s in the name of ‘efficiency’.
  
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  April 23, 2022 12:12pm
  - rouppe
    
    Both of these trends are just an acceleration of what has happened since a unified public service was dismantled in the 1980s and 1990s in the name of ‘efficiency’.
    
    This link to a 1988 document puts paid to your lie that those reforms were intended to dismantle anything
    
    https://www.publicservice.govt.nz/assets/Legacy/resources/Factsheet-2-A-Unified-Public-Service.pdf
    
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    April 23, 2022 12:51pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I didn’t say that was the intention – but it was the inevitable result.
      
      5 5
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      April 23, 2022 3:46pm
      - rouppe
        
        Oh for goodness sake…
        
        If that’s true then we will be able to say “when energy security was dismantled in the 2020’s”, and “when lawful gun ownership was dismantled” since those are the inevitable results of Labour’s “reforms” in those areas
        
        5 3
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        April 23, 2022 4:05pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Perhaps. Many commentators in the late 80s and early 90s pointed out the downsides of ‘reforming’ the public service. Maybe we should have a Kiwiblog poll asking whether we have a better public service now than forty years ago.
        
        3 4
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        April 23, 2022 5:12pm
Loddenthinks

I’m sorry to have to report the slow death of another organisation, diving head-first into areas nothing to do with its purpose.

Like the Royal Society of New Zealand, now a laughing stock around the world and forced into an embarrassing climb-down by some of its own members, the Institute of Directors is determined to outdo even that embarrassing fiasco.

As Sir Bob would say, they have enthusiastically bought into “maori wonderfulness” as well as climate change, diversity and inclusion, and any other woke cause going round.

It’s impossible to engage with any communication from this hitherto useful organisation without a manglish dictionary – for example:

“Kia ora Loddenthinks

Ngā mihi o te tau hou (happy new year)! The IoD and Community Governance NZ are excited to welcome the first cohort of teina (mentees) for the inaugural Tuakana Teina Chairs Mentoring Programme. A warm welcome and congratulations to our 25 teina chairs. Each teina will be matched with a tuakana (mentor) from their region for a series of valuable one-on-one mentoring sessions starting in February. ”

They offer webcasts and seminars on topics such as “Change the narrative and become a great Tiriti partner” and seek out people to promote as a “SDI Top Diverse Emerging Director.” I’m not making this up.

A pity they didn’t focus a bit more on their core job as a membership body, including protecting the privacy and credit card details of all its members, which were compromised due to a cyber-security breach last month. Muppets.
30 2
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April 23, 2022 10:36am
- Inandout
  
  on the same subject I was surprised when a fairly large firm of investigators sent out a newsletter which was sprinkled with Maori terms. The only conclusion I can reach is that this company is angling for more government contracts and being seen as ‘inclusive’ would help.
  
  24 2
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  April 23, 2022 10:50am
- patreon_36178434
  
  Unfortunately the IOD has been ‘colonised’ by the Wellington woke, and bought off by the Government to provide Te Reo speaking candidates for Crown Entity boards
  The hazard of having your ‘head office’ in Wellington
  And a very woke female CEO
  And Chair(person)
  Many membership resignations being processed
  But no doubt replaced by the wannabee’s seeking Crown boards
  
  4 1
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  April 23, 2022 8:22pm
oldfella

Just spotted this and did a double take.
Biden launches $6 billion effort to save nuclear power plants, to help combat climate change
“U.S. nuclear power plants contribute more than half of our carbon-free electricity, and President Biden is committed to keeping these plants active to reach our clean energy goals,” Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm said in a statement. “We’re using every tool available to get this country powered by clean energy by 2035, and that includes prioritizing our existing nuclear fleet to allow for continued emissions-free electricity generation and economic stability for the communities leading this important work.”
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nuclear-power-biden-climate-change/
12 0
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April 23, 2022 10:55am
- mawm
  
  I don’t see anything about building new plants and planning for the future. It is all about keeping the status quo until they are no longer government. It’s also a sop to the greens whilst pretending to do something to prevent energy poverty.
  
  8 1
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  April 23, 2022 12:59pm
Maggie Pie

It’s all go in TimTown 🙁
9 5
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April 23, 2022 11:03am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

This is old but worth bringing up again. Dan Bongino educating an Australian 60 minutes reporter about guns. The left just don’t get it. 400,000 more guns in Oz now than before the buyback. How are we doing in NZ???
https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=341466437865269
15 2
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April 23, 2022 11:09am
- Niz
  
  Dan’s comment about what others think we ‘need’ resonated.
  A while back we were told by our beloved leader that some people don’t ‘need’ utes. Where do people get off telling others that they don’t ‘need’ to have a ute, or a FWD, or a V8, or to eat meat?
  Other people telling me what I need to do grinds my gears.
  
  11 2
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  April 23, 2022 2:23pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

This is the sort of journalist we need in NZ. Facts, not Govt propaganda.
https://rumble.com/v11zcam-real-reporter-breaks-bombshell-hunter-biden-news-anchors-sit-stunned.html?
17 4
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April 23, 2022 11:22am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

No gambling in Alaska – except this. It is a big thing there.
https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation/nenana-ice-classic-alaska
6 2
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April 23, 2022 11:41am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  This explains more. ‘The Last Frontier’ really is just that. When it is all over, some retrieve the tripod and use it as a garden ornament. Alaskans are not weird, just different.
  https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2022/april/21/watch-the-ice-melt?
  
  7 2
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  April 23, 2022 12:02pm
I remember when

If Elon Musk does buy Twitter does that mean Governments will decide what it bans?
6 2
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April 23, 2022 11:41am
- Rodion Raskolnikov
  
  That’s already what the US government does, and when I say the US government, I really mean entities like Blackrock and Vanguard. Twitter is not so much a business as it is a conduit for regime propaganda and preferred narratives.
  
  15 4
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  April 23, 2022 12:13pm
rouppe

A shooting in Central Wellington this morning, likely gang related, and right near Pidgeon Park where all the other trouble is centred.

Thanks, Jacinda, for housing gang members and criminals in the CBD
22 2
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April 23, 2022 12:34pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  How can this be?
  
  Didn’t Grant Robertson and Tamantha Paul (Green Mayoral Candidate) reckon central Wellington was safe…and folks shouldn’t scape-goat gangs.?
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/124553505/mp-nicola-willis-says-she-doesnt-feel-safe-walking-through-central-wellington
  
  and didn’t Marama Davidson accuse Nicola Willis of being racist and classist for raising concerns about safety in Central Wellington?
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/438697/national-s-nicola-willis-and-green-co-leader-marama-davidson-clash-over-racist-accusation
  
  15 0
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  April 23, 2022 1:29pm
  - Prince
    
    There was the usual pile on from Labour, Stuff journos etc.
    But the public is catching on to the increase in violence, guns, Govt-funded anti social gangs etc.
    
    15 1
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    April 23, 2022 1:44pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Don’t hold your breath waiting for an apology
    
    6 0
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    April 23, 2022 4:10pm
- Prince
  
  Mongrel Mob.
  Spending their Govt funding.
  
  14 0
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  April 23, 2022 1:45pm
fredonas

Where’s our Ron DeSantis to fight against the taxpayer funded marxist and race grifting happy horsesh&t going on in this country? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skxUwFY-TKE
10 2
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April 23, 2022 12:53pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  We are not allowed one.
  We have red Labour,
  We have green Labour,
  We have yellow Labour,
  We have crazy parties Labour.
  
  See how deep this shit runs over the years?
  
  6 5
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  April 23, 2022 3:34pm
  - fredonas
    
    I thought it was interesting and commendable that he has rejected polling and instead relies on his own values and feedback from the public when he goes out and actually talks to people. Good for him.
    
    4 0
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    April 23, 2022 5:57pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Forgot, we also have blue Labour
    
    1 1
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    April 24, 2022 8:19am
Maggie Pie

I txt ma before to see if she wanted to join me for dinner tonite.
She just called back to make sure we had some Gin left.
Had to larf, was telling me she received her new Super this morning.
Decided to go up and celebrate with a lunch at Farro’s.
Two club sammies, a creme donut and coffee….that was the entire fortnightly increase spent.

She’s thinking about sending Robbo a ‘Thankyou Card’.
17 5
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April 23, 2022 1:01pm
- Sacha
  
  Ma did very well – my $7.48 probably could have got me a coffee and donut from the local Bakery.
  
  5 0
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  April 23, 2022 6:00pm
  - MCōs
    
    We are ~$76/fortnight better off than previously.
    I’m not grizzling.
    
    0 0
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    April 23, 2022 10:47pm
Prince

Who owns the roads ?
Not the tax/ratepayers, that’s for sure.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300571900/auckland-road-closed-as-killer-beez-gang-members-gather-for-annual-meeting
12 1
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April 23, 2022 2:23pm
- kowtow
  
  $1uffed article not open for comments ………
  
  No surprises there.
  
  7 1
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  April 23, 2022 4:28pm
kevn

@Maggie… Plus the pensioners heating supplement to pay for the petrol to get there.
12 2
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April 23, 2022 3:00pm
Maggie Pie

Do bartenders not have to wash their masks?

https://twitter.com/GayPatriotPlus/status/1517542506400952320

SHEESH!!
6 1
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April 23, 2022 4:53pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  One of the maddest people on the planet
  
  2 1
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  April 24, 2022 8:21am
greybeard

“Southland Area Commander Inspector Mike Bowman has now clarified four people died, including three boys from Bluff aged 16. Another was 17.”
In a Ford Ranger.
Whose Ford Ranger?
Was the owner of the Ford Ranger known to / related to any of the deceased?
Was the driver licensed? To carry other people?
Was the Ford Ranger stolen?
Surely these basic questions should asked and should be published. It is tragic that kids lose their lives like this but being up-front about the truths and circumstances is important. And may save other young lives.
13 1
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April 23, 2022 5:31pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Did anyone knowingly sell Alcohol to underage teenagers?
  
  If it it discovered that they did….will they loose their Liquor License??
  
  7 3
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  April 23, 2022 5:55pm

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