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April 3, 2022 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 03 April 2022

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General Debate

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Linda Reid

Is it time for National to run a primary election prior to the local body elections later this year? At least for the mayoral race. If not an election, then at least a series of town halls, televised debates and professional polling.

Party affiliation gives the voter some idea what the candidate stands for, without having to fo massive amounts of research. National should also offer financial support for the successful candidate.

This will stop the right’s practice of multiple candidates splitting the vote.
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April 3, 2022 8:03am
- Linda Reid
  
  A simple left vs right vote may well increase the voter turnout as well.
  
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  April 3, 2022 8:17am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Sadly the right have done it again, way yo many candidates, until they work it out the left will slide in in Auckland, just like the stupidity of not voting Nats cause don’t like leader
    
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    April 3, 2022 10:29am
- Loddenthinks
  
  You might be getting local body elections this year where you live, Linda, but here in Tauranga that’s not the case.
  
  Instead, we have Mahuta-appointed mandarins, unelected, being paid either $1,500 or $1,800 per day plus mileage and expenses. Tolley (Chair of the useless bunch of avaricious freeloaders) was paid more last year for 89 days work than the entire annual salary of the Mayor, when we had one.
  
  Elections? You’re having a laugh.
  
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  April 3, 2022 8:56am
  - Linda Reid
    
    Yeah. Like you, I don’t find it funny.
    
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    April 3, 2022 9:25am
  - Nickc2
    
    Elections? You’re having a laugh.
    Yes, being the cynic I am, why have Elections when Mahuta appointees will have the power to override/veto any democratically derived solutions to problems, plans, infrastructure, or financial commitments.
    Don’t forget, everything has a Koha Invoice attached.
    
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    April 3, 2022 9:37am
    - kowtow
      
      It’s also np longer a simple Left V Right.
      
      Both sides also demand votive offerings to the newly created gods of the weather . Just a question oh which side demands the most from us peasants to please their particular deity and in what measure.
      
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      April 3, 2022 9:53am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Who put them there ?
    
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    April 3, 2022 10:30am
- peterwn
  
  A compromise has occurred to me. It is too late for National to change tack on its policy of not being involved in local elections. However there should be nothing to stop National MP’s and National high profile figures (eg Paula Bennett) in Auckland from agreeing to endorse a particular Mayoral candidate. Perhaps even Chris Luxon and Peter Goodfellow could give their personal endorsements. Moreover if Efeso Collins could successfully ‘burn off’ other prospective left wing candidates, then it seems Wayne Brown could have a good chance of doing similar.
  
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  April 3, 2022 9:28am
  - Linda Reid
    
    Good idea
    
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    April 3, 2022 9:57am
  - C-Town
    
    Yes. Agree to have just one right-leaning candidate run for Mayor and have the others run for council. The problem isn’t just Mayors but Councillors as well.
    
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    April 3, 2022 2:23pm
    - stuarts-burgers
      
      Look what happened to Andy Foster in Wellington having very few friends around the Council Table
      
      Where I live there are 16 wards plus Mayor there are 17 votes around the table.
      Yes, it would be great to have a Right of Centre Mayor but if there 9 Left of Centre Councilors they are stuffed to the detriment of the district,
      But if you have a Left of Centre Mayor and 9 Right of Center Councilors same thing happens but this time it advantage of the district
      It is the big picture that needs looking at
      
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      April 3, 2022 6:37pm
Steve Todd

Message for Durden—

Further to our exchanges on Tuesday and Friday, I sent an e-mail (with three attachments, and a message to you) to DPF yesterday, at 4:23PM, requesting that he forward it to you.
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April 3, 2022 8:04am
- Durden
  
  Thanks. Haven’t received it yet. Will keep an eye open.
  
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  April 3, 2022 2:16pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    As you will see, below, you’ve got me started now. 😊
    
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    April 3, 2022 3:22pm
    - Durden
      
      Its a good thing then ! Well said. As of 7am 4 April, haven’ t had anything forwarded to me. But DPF is a busy and family man. it takes time but it does arrive.
      
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      April 4, 2022 7:05am
Yvette

Co-governance – Newshub headline –
Patrick Gower reveals the question David Seymour needs to answer on Māori co-governance
… in an appearance on Newshub Nation on Saturday morning, Newshub’s national correspondent Patrick Gower called on Seymour to consider the disparities between Māori and Pakeha in his campaign to scrap the idea.

“The question that David Seymour needs to answer is this: why if a Māori child is born, like in the house next door to me, do they live for seven years less than the child born in this [Pakeha] house?” he asked Newshub Nation host Oriini Kaipara.

So Gower poses the question – a rather bizarre question, I think, since most “Pakeha” apparently live longer than Maori, as Gower says, but Asians live longer than “Pakeha” – however Gower then switches to saying Labour should be able to explain co-governance in terms that will destroy the answer, whatever it may be, to Gower’s own question –

“When we can find a model that can answer questions like that or seeks to answer questions like that and sell that to the New Zealand public, these kinds of arguments that David Seymour and the like are picking up are going to be null and void – and that is the challenge for the Labour Party.”

Gower says the Government now needs to get on and explain how co-governance with Māori would work to allow people to understand it and decide for themselves if it’s something they’d support.
“If you’re going to have any kind of meaningful co-governance in Aotearoa New Zealand, you need to have the public on board – and in fact, it needs to go through an election and you need to really sell it to the public,” Gower said.

So can Ardern’s Government explain co-governance in a way that will “have the public on board”, to go beyond questions like Gower’s?

Perhaps not, if their explanation to “have the public on board” in the Capital Gains Tax “conversation” was anything to go by – when Government didn’t even define what was being discussed, didn’t give their side of the “conversation”, so left a void which media people like Gower filled.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/04/patrick-gower-reveals-the-question-david-seymour-needs-to-answer-on-m-ori-co-governance.html
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April 3, 2022 8:05am
- Harriet
  
  It takes 75% of kiwis to vote to become a state of Australia.
  
  That’s your benchmark if co-governance is going to come about.
  
  Just ask the supreme court. 😎
  
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  April 3, 2022 8:45am
- chukar
  
  If NZ is to have a racist society,with seperate laws there must be legal definition of each race. This is the basis of apartheid.
  Without this definition ,chaos and unrest is the inevitable result.
  In this century such a definition is demonstrably impossible.
  So the answer must be one law for all legal NZ residents.
  
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  April 3, 2022 8:51am
- krazykiwi
  
  So Gower tries, limply I might add, to assert that anti-democratic co-governance is the solution to ethic health outcome disparities. Long bow, anyone? Seymour would do well to stay away from that nonsense.
  
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  April 3, 2022 8:58am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    While I agree that “Maori on average have worse health outcomes, therefore racism, therefore co-governance” is a pathetically weak non-argument” – I do not agree that Seymour should therefore ignore it.
    
    He needs instead to show that he has a better answer. One that focuses on real, practical assistance not to Maori but to people who need help, some of whom will be Maori and some who will not.
    
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    April 3, 2022 9:20am
  - Nickc2
    
    If there was a word or phrase I could use to describe my loathing of Gower without being banned from KB, I would express it here.
    
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    April 3, 2022 9:47am
    - curry4me
      
      Yes, so would I. Gower isn’t worth copping a ban for though.
      
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      April 3, 2022 4:40pm
  - ByGolly
    
    Wholeheartedly agree. Stay well away from the poisonous Gower.
    
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    April 3, 2022 4:54pm
- Stellaboxer
  
  I don’t take any notice of Gower . He is in my opinion a very second or third rate mouth piece. The Lauren Southern, Molineaux interview should convince anyone of his calibre.
  
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  April 3, 2022 9:08am
  - G152
    
    He is the face of the print media
    
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    April 3, 2022 11:33am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Certainly, belongs on the radio
      
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      April 3, 2022 3:27pm
    - Observer of Life
      
      A face meant for radio?
      
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      April 3, 2022 8:42pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  The too long, didn’t read version of simple Paddy’s “argument” is thus:
  
  a) Maori are generally-speaking very poor at making life decisions
  b) Let’s put Maori in charge
  c) If you disagree, you, Seymour “and your like” are raaacist.
  
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  April 3, 2022 9:24am
- septic skeptic
  
  What a pity Gower wasn’t around in Kate Sheppard’s time as he could have rebutted the case for women’s suffrage by pointing out the life expectancy gap between men and women.
  
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  April 3, 2022 9:52am
- David Garrett
  
  “Patrick Gower reveals…” Patrick Gower can’t “reveal” anything – except perhaps his own bias. He is supposed to be a journalist not some sort of soothsayer or guru.
  
  At least after whatever procedure he has undergone he no longer looks so much like a potato.
  
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  April 3, 2022 9:54am
  - Jack5
    
    Gower tells it like it is …
    
    https://youtu.be/tzZ02BtGmHg
    
    Such a great piece, it’s worth repeating.
    
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    April 3, 2022 10:07am
  - Jimmy Brown
    
    Shreeeekk!! Hate speech!! Lock your doors DG, close the curtains. They’ll be lookin for ya!
    
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    April 3, 2022 10:33am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Heh, at least Gower seems to be asking the govt to explain how co-governance would work. That could be ‘interesting’ and he might end up regretting what he wished for.
    
    (Esp. as this govt would have to explain itself before an election, rather than via obfuscation after an election)
    
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    April 3, 2022 10:39am
  - Inandout
    
    DG, Web cams have that ‘smoothing’ effect on some and others look bloody horrible.
    
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    April 3, 2022 11:20am
  - Tomtoddy
    
    DG – he might look less like one but he still talks like he has one for brains. Still laughing at how that Canadian visitor Stefan Molyneux chewed him and spat him out leaving Gower a gibbering wreck.
    
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    April 3, 2022 11:57am
- Paulus
  
  How can New Zealand’s 15% of the population Co -Govern with the other 85% of the population ?
  Doesn’t make sense !
  
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  April 3, 2022 10:12am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  With equivalent straw man logic, Gower could also ask why NZ males life expectancy is 3.5 years less than females & what is Jacinda going to do about it.
  
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  April 3, 2022 10:12am
- Blackbob
  
  I would posit that the very thing Gower prefers would entrench the disparity even more. Maori elites have shown no willingness to improve the standards of their own people where it would make any meaningful difference. Taking a stone age based culture into the modern age is whats needed, not more stone age tribalism.
  
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  April 3, 2022 10:29am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  Over the last century or so many people, Maori European & others, have died for NZs democracy. I doubt any of these people would have fought for co governance.
  
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  April 3, 2022 10:40am
- mogg
  
  Co-governance is something which appeals to Labour because it is a policy where there is no measurable outcome. Ardern will talk loud and long about her dreams and vague ideas, which in some distant timeframe might or might not happen.
  Anybody who disagrees can be shouted down and called racist, by her or the paid for media.
  In the here and now everybody knows that the truth is, you can’t save people from themselves’.
  
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  April 3, 2022 11:45am
- James Stephenson
  
  Paddy, I’ll answer your question with a question : the treaty process has effectively re-instated and enriched the Māori aristocracy, whilst doing two fifths of fuck all for ordinary Māori, how will giving more, via “Co-governance” to this elite suddenly change outcomes for the rest?
  
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  April 3, 2022 11:58am
- Philview
  
  Perhaps Patrick can explain why Labour did not campaign on Co-Governance but they are now implementing it. Strange that he doesn’t see it as a corruption of democratic process.
  
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  April 3, 2022 12:02pm
  - Bridgenag
    
    A university fellow said to me that because they had more than 50% we just had to put up with whatever they did!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
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    April 3, 2022 3:35pm
Mr_Blobby

The sorry debacle and fiasco the covid has become.

It is clear now that covid was highjacked by the politicians.

Scientists rather than admit that they had incomplete knowledge of covid, just made it up as they went along, the politians talked of “the science ” as a complete body of knowledge, a manual of what to do, rejecting any and all counter views, we now know there was no certainty about the evidence, if you can’t question it then it is not science.

Emotive headlines like “death toll mounting ” but was there excess mortality, or was it a normal pattern of deaths in a population of older people that would have occurred anyway, say the annual deaths from the flu season.

Let’s “absolutely ” not “do this” ever again.
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April 3, 2022 8:05am
- Rich Prick
  
  It was mass hysteria brought on by desperate politicians and enabled by an ever so compliant media. What’s worse, it was enforced at street level by Cindy fanboys/girls shouting at us to “get boosted”. I’d rather take my medical advice from a doctor, thank you very much.
  
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  April 3, 2022 8:51am
  - Matt Long
    
    I like to take advice from a good Dr, there’s plenty of duds out there.
    
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    April 3, 2022 9:00am
  - cjn
    
    Many doctors were bought, even in New Zealand. Many suffered coercion, some were struck off for trying to use therapies other than the vaccine. When your doctor tells you that you should take the jab so that you can go to the cafe you wonder…
    
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    April 3, 2022 10:25am
    - Bridgenag
      
      Remember they got $300 odd per vac and if they picked someone up for a vac that was $100 extra…….
      
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      April 3, 2022 3:36pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Not correct. My son-in-law, as a pharmacist, was delivering the jabs – the payment was $35 per jab, and on weekends, $50 /jab.
        
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        April 3, 2022 5:43pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  I wish I could agree with your entreaty to absolutely not do this ever again, but I fear we will not only absolutely do it again in the future, but that time is upon us.
  
  Dear Leader has already said she’s keeping the Traffic Light system “just in case” it’s needed again, and there has been a recent new variant (of Covid fear) developed by the bought-and-paid-for media. The dreaded double-whammy of flu and omicron, or deltacron, or anything really, just as long as it puts the living sh*ts up the elderly and vulnerable, and those that care about them.
  
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  April 3, 2022 10:47am
- crackle
  
  The only good thing about the ‘mounting death toll’ is the closer it gets to everyone elses the more it makes a mockery of all the shit we’ve put up with, lockdowns mandated vax societal division etc etc etc.
  
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  April 3, 2022 2:04pm
Warren

Whilst I don’t agree with the doctored photo of Jacinda Ardern our Prime Minister at a strip club you have to ask yourself doesn’t Jacinda Ardern our Prime Minister bring a lot of this on herself.
We need more Doctors, Nurses, School Teachers and many other skilled professionals but just like many other of her witchhunts Jacinda says those that those that were sacked for not being vaccinated don’t have to be re- employed.
So now we see couple of examples where the Police are investigating things that have been said and done about her , now I agree death threats and violence should be but for her to rule out a inquiry into what part Government played into the Parliamentry protest and only allow the Police IPCA to hold a inquiry into their own in what turned the protest violent is weak and a cover up of the Prime Minister’s and the Speaker of Parliament Trevor Mallard choice of actions which could have lessened the violence that took place.
This Prime Minister has set out to devide New Zealanders from day one and will continue to lose trust from many voters and has compromised the Police in New Zealand with her soft on crime attitudes but uses the Police to investigate those that slur her.
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April 3, 2022 8:05am
- TS Child
  
  I’m pretty sure these sorts of doctored photos happen to a lot of prominent people. They’re childish and tacky of course, but I don’t think we can get upset about the PM without getting upset about all of them. And really, are they that important? Aren’t we better off just rolling our eyes and ignoring them? And if they are that important, then it’s a much bigger discussion. Either way, the headline should not be about the PM.. Same with death threats – generally considered more obnoxious, but we can’t be all up in arms over one person, if we are not all up in arms over the rest. So the headline should be about the inappropriateness of death threats and discussing prominent (and obscure) people who receive them – let’s not forget the little people for whom a death threat never makes it to the media and who do not have access to safety. Seems to me the PM is continuing her masterclass in social manipulation …
  
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  April 3, 2022 8:55am
  - oldfella
    
    Which is worse, Cindy’s stripper image, or the song about raping John Key’s son and having sex with his daughter?
    And is it different when the left do it. Hmm.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/rude-rant-goes-to-air/JVRPFTFMOZ5DLX6UHOL4GKNTKQ/
    
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    April 3, 2022 10:11am
  - rockape
    
    No one from the left complained about the “doctored” photo of her on the front of Vogue !
    
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    April 3, 2022 11:58am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  You divide the country with personal arrogance, and put your face out at every turn and say look at me, then this is what happens
  
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  April 3, 2022 10:36am
Maggie's partner

Spare a thought for dyslexic people, at 2am today their cocks went black
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April 3, 2022 8:05am
- Jade Warrior
  
  I must say it was nice to wake up with the son this morning.
  
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  April 3, 2022 9:03am
  - mawm
    
    I’m sure that was not appropriate no matter his age.
    
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    April 3, 2022 11:36am
  - rockape
    
    Incest rules!
    
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    April 3, 2022 11:59am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Only the women athletes.
  
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  April 3, 2022 9:25am
Benedict Yu

This journalist has such faulty thinking.

“And if Seymour really believes his race-based “one-person, one-vote” referendum is handing him a lifeline, as it did for Don Brash in 2004 with his Orewa speech, he’d be wise to think again. It’s 2022, not 2004, and there’s a strong view among Millennials and Gen-Xers that equality for Māori through co-governance is a time that’s come.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/128233466/good-faith-in-repairing-race-relations-is-the-way-forward

She also attributes poor Maori outcomes in health and education to racism.

I have news for her. Your health status is mostly a result of personal decisions about drugs, nutrition and exercise, and getting your kids their childhood vaccinations. Education is more complex, but it is mainly down to parents and their attitudes.

Who is this “partnership” with? Is it between Maori and white people OR between Maori and people of all other ethnicities? Or between Maori and the Government? But Maori has very significant representation in government. So confusing. ☹️

By 2030 there will probably be more people of Chinese ethnicity in New Zealand than Maori. Certainly by 2035. What would happen if Chinese folk started lobbying for Chinese Co governance? They would be laughed at?

National really has to come out and say that the Treaty was a contract between the British Crown and Maori to give Maori a set of quite easy to understand rights.

And a final note on racism. Most New Zealanders are LESS racist than most countries. Certainly Australia, Japan, and China where I have life experience. Does anybody raise an eyebrow if you encounter a couple where one person is Maori and the other is white with blond hair? Try being a white person in Australia with an aboriginal partner.

You can’t blame every bad outcome on racism. It is very dangerous. Just look at the race riots that have occurred in history. For example the race riots between Chinese and Malays in Singapore and Malaysia in the 1960s.

If we want better outcomes for Maori we need 2 things. Fix the institutions like the Ministry of Education and the education system. Second fix Maori families. But of course those things are hard so let’s have Co governance.
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April 3, 2022 8:11am
- DimChappie
  
  Totally agree, Benedict. That journalist defines racism:
  “It’s timely to remember that racists abide in all parties. They can be identified as the ones who object to the word Aotearoa and complain bitterly about the amount of te reo spoken on RNZ National.”
  That’s me!
  
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  April 3, 2022 8:19am
  - Opie
    
    Hopefully it will go full circle and it will be fashionable to be racist again then.
    
    Imagine being able to freely say things like me and this other guy have equal freedoms and rights and we don’t even consider the colour of each others skin…
    
    You either hate everyone in this country that isn’t a Maori, or you are a racist.
    
    I treat everyone the same, so that makes me a racist… I’m pretty proud of that
    
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    April 3, 2022 8:52am
    - Stellaboxer
      
      Indeed Opie I’m one of those racist that believe in racial equality too. New Zealand is full of them.
      
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      April 3, 2022 9:47am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    It is maddening. I would have no issues with dedicated Maori language broadcasts on public radio and television. Just like there are Dutch and Flemish broadcasts in the Netherlands.
    
    Can this journalist name ANY broadcaster globally that uses a hybrid of two languages in broadcasting?
    
    I also have news for her. It annoys the shit out of many people but they don’t anything because they will be called racist.
    
    Just the same as the public servant being required to recite Karakia before meetings. These are ‘Māori incantations and prayers, used to invoke spiritual guidance and protection.’ (Wikipedia). I have seen this in action it is excruciating. And 3 of them have confided in me that they hate it but they have no choice unless they accept exclusion and career damage.
    
    So yes these are the “racists”. I can’t believe what is happening to this country.
    
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    April 3, 2022 8:55am
    - Yvette
      
      Benedict Yu Just the same as the public servant being required to recite Karakia before meetings. These are ‘Māori incantations and prayers, used to invoke spiritual guidance and protection.’
      
      Benedict, what is a further upsetting point is the number who will actually commit somewhere like a Census form to identify themselves as adhering to Māori Religions, Beliefs and Philosophies
      
      In the 2018 census, of national population, 5,283 Māori identify themselves as adhering to –
      Māori Religions, Beliefs and Philosophies nec 1,584
      Māori Religions, Beliefs and Philosophies nfd 3,699
      https://yournz.org/2019/09/24/census-2018-religious-affiliation-diversity/
      
      Māori 775,836 people :16.5 percent portion of population
      
      Since there seems to be a progression of recognition of the Treaty, to recognition of the “Principles of the Treaty” to now recognition of “Te Ao O Maori” (the world of Maori), it is surely important to realise it may be for the actual benefit of 5,283 Maori who will identify their beliefs “on paper
      5,283 people are 6.8, just less than 7 individuals per 1,000 of 775,836 Maori
      
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      April 3, 2022 9:42am
    - AitchW
      
      Why would you continue to work in an organisation that foists such Stone Age lunacy on you?
      
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      April 3, 2022 10:07am
  - Rich Prick
    
    Wow, by that definition I’m a racist too. Best I get my money’s worth then …
    
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    April 3, 2022 9:00am
  - RalphT
    
    Well using your definition I’m definitely not racist. While I object to the way the word Aotearoa is used everywhere, I can’t say I’m one to complain about te reo and RNZ. Probably because I never listen to the bloody thing in the first place. Non-stop left wing drivel; I’ve got better things to do, like watching paint dry.
    
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    April 3, 2022 9:23am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    So it makes me racist if I object to my native tongue being purposely swamped with a different language, not an organic natural uptake of words and phrases as Happened throughout its history but a completely forced campaign ideologically driven by a fucking political party. Guess I’m a racist. Every pitiful labour regime comes out with how it’s going to solve the “ Māori issues “ remember Closing the Gaps? Giving away free computers and cell phones on a race basis. How did that work out. Surely Māori must be pretty tired of being patronised by the left. Telling a whole group of people that they need you’re help because they obviously can’t help themselves is revolting and in my opinion rooted in real racism.
    
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    April 3, 2022 9:44am
  - rouppe
    
    The thing about that statement is that it instantly excludes Maori from being racist.
    
    Which is utter stupidity. You have a(n ex) Maori MP saying “I’d never let my daughter date a white mofo”. You have Maori candidates for local and central government saying again and again that they’re going to focus on positive outcomes for “our people”, thereby saying “non-Maori are excluded”.
    
    Racism is not confined to white people. It seems as though we’re losing sight of that.
    
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    April 3, 2022 9:49am
  - David Garrett
    
    Dim: Et moi aussi Sir…after 40 years I have renounced Nat Rad – or at least Morning Report – due to the amount of Maori sprinkled through every second sentence.
    
    As Suzie Ferguson doing it in a thick Scots accent was really a bridge too far.
    
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    April 3, 2022 10:01am
    - Bridgenag
      
      I feel as though I am grieving about the loss of RNZ and TV1………. Feel so much better not listening or watching though
      
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      April 3, 2022 11:15am
    - Homas
      
      I find that sort of thing to be quite a perplexing juxtaposition of the standard Koiwoi mastication and bludgeoning of the mother tongue against the virtual oral massage received by the “sprinkled” words.
      
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      April 3, 2022 11:19am
- Taieri
  
  National really has to come out and say that the Treaty was a contract between the British Crown and Maori to give Maori a set of quite easy to understand rights.
  —————-
  
  The “Crown” of 2022 does not equal the “British Crown” of 1840. The Crown of 2022 is every NZ citizen, including Maori. The Crown of 2022 is simply the State of New Zealand, which, while nominally still a monarchy with QEII as the head of state, is fully sovereign and as such does not in practice answer to any external powers.
  
  Can you enter into a partnership with yourself then?
  
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  April 3, 2022 8:37am
  - rjay
    
    Yep. But my mum told me I’d go blind.
    
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    April 3, 2022 9:46am
  - David Garrett
    
    Taeri: As Harry Truman was apparently fond of saying “you are about half right”.
    
    In 2022 “the Crown” is simply another way of referring to the Executive -i.e. the Cabinet, or to be totally correct, the cabinet plus the GG.
    
    In public law courses I would think they still teach that theoretically the GG could dismiss the government, but the last time that happened in a country like ours – Gough Whitlam’s Australian government in 1975 – an unholy mess ensued. That situation was extremely complex, and involved factors – state legislatures and a bi-cameral parliament – none of which we have here.
    
    Your first point is of course totally correct: “the British Crown” in 1840 was a very different entity from “the Crown” now.
    
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    April 3, 2022 10:09am
    - Taieri
      
      In 2022 “the Crown” is simply another way of referring to the Executive -i.e. the Cabinet, or to be totally correct, the cabinet plus the GG.
      ————–
      
      The Executive is not an abstract. The members of the Cabinet are MPs elected by an universal, adult vote, extended to the entire citizenry in 1893 and the GG is selected by the said Cabinet. So, in the representative democracy the “Crown” a.k.a the Executive acts (at least in theory) on behalf and in the interest of all citizens.
      My argument stands – you can’t enter into a partnership with yourself.
      
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      April 3, 2022 12:57pm
      - Rodion Raskolnikov
        
        The Executive is not the Crown. Sovereignty rests with the Crown (i.e. the Queen). The Executive governs on behalf of the Crown, with the approval to do so coming from the Governor General (once the Executive have demonstrated that they hold a majority). Maori and non-Maori are both subjects of the Crown. So no, there was no partnership, but nor was the Executive a party to the ToW.
        
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        April 3, 2022 6:25pm
    - Rodion Raskolnikov
      
      “… theoretically the GG could dismiss the government.”
      
      Yes, the GG has this power as they are, in practice, our head of state, being the representative of the Queen (or King as the case may be).
      
      As you know, the propositions of law are the theoretical foundation of our system, so the “theory” is what rules. The non-technical and casual use of language doesn’t reflect the law. The PM is not our head of state, and the Executive is not the Crown: the Queen (via the GG) is.
      
      On this basis “the Crown” is– technically and so legally speaking–still the Queen, just as was the case in 1840. She is represented by the GG, who acts on the advice of the PM. The GG still signs our legislation into law, because she is, in effect, the Crown. It doesn’t matter that we use “the Executive” as a kind of short-hand colloquial reference to our head of state, but technically (i.e. under law), the GG is our head of state in their capacity as the Crown’s representative, the same as in 1840.
      
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      April 3, 2022 1:12pm
  - Jack5
    
    It’s easy: half of everything is mine, and half of yours is mine, too.
    
    Like the taxpayer subsidised Maori radio network, and the Maorification of Radio NZ.
    
    Like Maori TV the coming Maorification of TVNZ as it is merged with Radio NZ.
    
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    April 3, 2022 10:13am
- Tomtoddy
  
  The question that we should all be asking is how does co-governance help fix the problems in Kaitaia or Mangere? Top down solutions do not work.
  
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  April 3, 2022 8:38am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The average life expectancy of Maori Males in NZ is 73.4 years – This exceeds that of the males born and raised in Glasgow – 73.1 years.
  
  https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/statistics-and-data/statistics/statistics-by-theme/life-expectancy/life-expectancy-in-scotland/2018-2020#:~:text=Average%20life%20expectancy%20in%20the,Glasgow%20City%20(78.3%20years).
  
  https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/national-and-subnational-period-life-tables-2017-2019#:~:text=Life%20expectancy%20for%20M%C4%81ori%20males,females%20(up%201.4%20years).
  
  The low life expectancy of Glaswegian males compared to rest of UK (and most of Europe) is pretty much down to life style – booze, drugs, violence and lousy diet.
  
  I’m pretty sure the life expectancy of Maori males who are raised & live as LDS or Mormons would be approaching 80 years.
  
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  April 3, 2022 8:44am
  - Matt Long
    
    What I found disturbing about the life expectancy tables is that people like Benedict Yu can expect to live almost 10 years longer than people of British extraction like myself. Clearly this is a result of toxic racism by the health system and I want a payout. A big payout and an apology.
    
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    April 3, 2022 8:53am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Benedict Yu should lose 8 kilograms and halve his wine consumption. ☹️
      
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      April 3, 2022 8:57am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        As I slide into my twilight years, I have no great desire to make the average life expectancy for non-Maori females in NZ (84.4 years) if I am not living a completely independent active life.
        
        I too could lose a few kgs, I s’pose (I don’t do booze or fags), but until my hips/knees/ heart etc start crapping out, I can’t see it happening.
        
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        April 3, 2022 9:13am
      - RalphT
        
        I can help, BY. Just send me your wine collection.
        
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        April 3, 2022 9:25am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I stopped smoking 20 years ago. I am fairly sure that I would be dead otherwise. It freaks me out when I see folk at the checkout, many of them Maori, buying a packet of cigarettes for $35 along with instant noodles and cheap bread.
        
        There’s your problem. Good luck with fixing that with Co Governance.
        
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        April 3, 2022 9:32am
      - MCōs
        
        So now that you are no longer longer addicted to cigarettes you feel you’re entitled to poke the borax that those who are?
        
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        April 3, 2022 12:49pm
      - Kiwi Dave
        
        That’s very anti-social of you, BY. To help equalise average Asian and NZ European life expectancies you should add 8kg and double your wine consumption.
        
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        April 3, 2022 12:57pm
    - David Garrett
      
      Matt L: Absolutely! I want a payout too.
      
      Interesting that Asians have a significantly greater life expectancy than we honkeys – especially since many Chinese are very enthusiastic faggers.
      
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      April 3, 2022 10:11am
      - Jack5
        
        DG, are there life-expectancy statistics for NZ born Chinese compared with other New Zealanders and compared with Chinese in NZ born overseas?
        
        Diet is a big factor in health and life expectancy.
        
        For example, prostate cancer incidence is far lower in China than in the West, but my understanding is that that for ethnic Chinese who have been in America for two or three generations, the incidence approaches that of other non-Black Americans.
        
        But isn’t Gower’s biggest mistake (Yvette’s 8.05 post above) in using life expectancy as a projection for children? For Maori, average life expectancy at the moment is about 73 for men and 77 for women.
        
        That is relevant to Maori guys in their 60s, but surely it does not mean a Maori boy, of say eight, has a life expectancy of 73 years. There will be changes, for the good or the bad, in life styles, environment, and health care technology in decades ahead.
        
        Gower has, to use his language, no fucking idea that a Maori child will live seven years less than the non-Maori child born next door.
        
        If they are in the Far North, or some other similar sunny climate, if the Maori child is in fact, brown, and the other child is pale-skinned, then projecting like Gower, the (presumably pale-skinned) non-Maori child will be four or five times more like to suffer skin cancer.
        
        NZers suffer the highest rate of skin cancer in the world – 80,000 cases a year – and it kills more people in NZ than road accidents do.
        
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        April 3, 2022 10:41am
  - All_on_Red
    
    In 1839 the average age of death for Maori was 32.
    Now its 74.
    That improvement is the real metric
    Thanks whitey
    
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    April 3, 2022 9:29am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      32 would have been life expectancy, skewed by massive rates of infant mortality.
      
      But your point is correct.
      
      The problem is that you can’t blame Maori for their own problems. It is racist.
      
      I heard that dreadful person who heads the Education Ministry on the radio saying we can’t blame Maori families for poor education outcomes. The problem is racist teachers. 🤡
      
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      April 3, 2022 9:36am
    - MCōs
      
      In 1839 the life expectancy back in old blighty wasn’t so flash either!
      
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      April 3, 2022 1:30pm
  - rockape
    
    Phew,I made it to 75 !
    
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    April 3, 2022 12:11pm
- Linda Reid
  
  There is no “good faith in repairing race relations” if policies are enacted without debate and without a mandate from the voters via a contested election.
  
  The very definition of good faith must include full disclosure and honest implementation of proposed solutions.
  
  Hiding your agenda, as Labour did in 202, is very, very bad faith.
  
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  April 3, 2022 8:56am
  - Linda Reid
    
    2020.
    
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    April 3, 2022 8:56am
    - Steve Todd
      
      They did it in 1984, too.
      
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      April 3, 2022 9:01am
  - Matt Long
    
    Or like National did in 2008, on the one hand claiming to want to abolish Maori seats then slyly bringing in co-governance for the Waikato, the Ureweras, the Wanganui…
    
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    April 3, 2022 9:06am
    - Linda Reid
      
      Or like Labour in 1999 with getting rid of the Privy Council and creating a Supreme Court. Or turning our air force into a transport business or, gosh, I can’t remember all the things Labour dud that they hid from us.
      
      Can we agree that truth in campaigning is 100% needed?
      
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      April 3, 2022 9:38am
      - Jack5
        
        At least John Key had a referendum for his black pirate flag, but didn’t he say later that he wished he hadn’t, and had just pushed the change through?
        
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        April 3, 2022 10:51am
      - Matt Long
        
        I think we can agree that politicians are not honest about their intentions and we need to figure a way to make them accountable.
        Key on Trump promising to pull out of the TPP, ” In my experience politicians often say things they do not mean to keep during elections.” (Paraphrased)
        
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        April 3, 2022 11:00am
      - Steve Todd
        
        […] we need to figure a way to make them accountable.
        
        Well, Matt, it just so happens that there is a way. It’s called NOTA ‘with teeth’.
        
        If ‘None of the Above’ was a binding option on both sides of the MMP ballot paper, politics in this country would literally be transformed.
        
        Unfortunately, legislation providing for such a reform is, at this point, nothing more than a distant hope.
        
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        April 3, 2022 12:06pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        @Jack5 @ 10:51AM
        
        Yep. That’s my memory, Jack.
        
        The arrogance of these people has been doing my head in for more than 50 years.
        
        It is one of the reasons why I say that democracy in New Zealand should be a meld of representative democracy and direct democracy — with NOTA on all ballot papers!
        
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        April 3, 2022 3:07pm
      - Durden
        
        While we are at it, democracy with teeth would need a “recall” process along with NOTA. Imagine being able to recall the pants down Mayor from Auckland.
        
        For which I am willing to extend the term to four years.
        
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        April 4, 2022 7:10am
      - Steve Todd
        
        Recall provisions in local government would need to be thought through carefully, especially in respect of multi-seat wards, whether the electoral system was FPP or STV.
        
        For example, if a three-seat STV ward (quota = 25%) had two Left councillors and one Right councillor, the recall provisions could be used to recall the Right councillor and replace him or her (absolute majority = 50%) with another Left councillor! And vice versa, of course.
        
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        April 4, 2022 9:44am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Peters reneged, end of
      
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      April 3, 2022 10:40am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Awomen Benedict.
  
  It will be interesting to see how certain politicians and journalists who announced pale, stale males as dinosaurs will respond, when they themselves are regarded as… dinosaurs
  
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  April 3, 2022 9:01am
- artemisia
  
  Fixing families. There is a pretty good model available as a starting point. The Young Parent Payment initiative, stated under the social investment plan by National. Still going but don’t hear much about outcomes.
  
  Nicola Willis is Nationals social investment spox as well as Finance spox. Good portfolio pairing. I hope she is gathering info on the progress and outcomes of the YPP to see if it is actually working. Have heard a couple of quiet comments that it is no longer well resourced.
  
  The YPP was designed to support YPs into independence for their sake and the future of their children.
  
  Thing is the structure is broadly in place and it could easily be expanded to cover more than teenage parents. Even a pilot or two.
  
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  April 3, 2022 9:06am
- cas
  
  As for bad Maori health outcomes, just look at what’s in the supermarket trolleys and that will tell you why.
  
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  April 3, 2022 10:07am
- oldfella
  
  I like David Lange’s thoughts on co-governance.
  ++
  In a speech in November 2000, the former Labour Party Prime Minister David Lange warned that if governments attempted to accommodate the increasingly audacious demands for sovereignty by the Maori tribal elite, they would end up threatening democracy itself.
  “Democratic government can accommodate Maori political aspiration in many ways. It can allocate resources in ways which reflect the particular interests of Maori people. It can delegate authority, and allow the exercise of degrees of Maori autonomy. What it cannot do is acknowledge the existence of a separate sovereignty. As soon as it does that, it isn’t a democracy. We can have a democratic form of government or we can have indigenous sovereignty. They can’t coexist and we can’t have them both.”
  Lange explained that the Treaty of Waitangi was a contract between the Crown and Maori, not a ‘partnership’. He said treating it as a partnership was not only “absurd”, but doing so would result in the introduction of profoundly “undemocratic” rights and entitlements.
  https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-opinion/opinion-democracy-under-threat
  
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  April 3, 2022 10:17am
- Master Mariner
  
  Actually Malaysia is a Shinning Beacon of what would happen to NZ.
  Why anyone does not join the dots I dont know?
  If anyone thinks they are all equal under one rule in Malaysia then you have neither been there ( Recently) or one of the “Favoured” ones.
  Its a really great comparison to what NZ will look like in 10 years with Co Governance.
  
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  April 3, 2022 10:21am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Whoops, Neither or Either. What a difference an N makes.
    
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    April 3, 2022 10:23am
- rockape
  
  That will explain why Labour were so keen to avoid mentioning co governance during the 2020 election campaign. They knew mention of it would kill their vote as it will in. 2023.
  
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  April 3, 2022 12:01pm
Tomtoddy

This is a response by the Vice President of the USA who is just a shaky heart beat away from being the most powerful person in the world……

“So I am here because this is a community in the Mississippi Delta that has a long history of being part of America’s history, um, including having the needs that should be met…”

How has the USA got into this position where their President is clearly suffering mental deterioration and the Vice President is cuckoo?
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April 3, 2022 8:24am
- Nickc2
  
  How has the USA got into this position where their President is clearly suffering mental deterioration and the Vice President is cuckoo?
  Probably the same way as we have our present Govt.
  
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  April 3, 2022 8:54am
- Benedict Yu
  
  It is not so much worse than the New Zealand situation.
  
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  April 3, 2022 8:59am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Well we do know now with mounting evidence that the US election was fraudulent & the Democrats cheated on a massive scale.
    
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    April 3, 2022 9:44am
    - mawm
      
      At the very least they could have cheated a mentally competant pair into office. What were they thinking?
      
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      April 3, 2022 11:46am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        mawm: “At the very least they could have cheated a mentally competant pair into office. What were they thinking?”
        
        They were thinking “We can beat this f#cker by using old Joe to fool the normies into thinking he’s not a woke-grifting idiot and is a safe old pair of hands.”
        
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        April 3, 2022 3:17pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  And when meeting with a representative from Jamaica, the land of half her ancestors:
  
  “For Jamaica, one of the issues that has been presented as an issue that is economic in the way its impact has been the pandemic…we will assist Jamaica in Covid recovery by assisting in terms of the recovery efforts in Jamaica that have been essential.”
  
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  April 3, 2022 9:36am
- Loddenthinks
  
  And this one, at a presser after a tour of the congressional library or something similar:
  
  “The significance of the passage of time, right? The significance of the passage of time. So when you think about it, there is great significance to the passage of time…there is such great significance to the passage of time.”
  
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  April 3, 2022 9:49am
- curry4me
  
  It took a lot of hard work from socialists marching through the institutions while the Republicans were asleep.
  
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  April 3, 2022 11:08am
- Inandout
  
  Tom, I listen to JFK and Reagan (in his prime) speaking with such clarity and meaning and I despair at the current WH man. Obama waffled but was easy on the ear.
  
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  April 3, 2022 11:32am
  - curry4me
    
    You’re not the only one. Especially when it comes to JFK
    
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    April 3, 2022 4:48pm
Master Mariner

What a difference 2 weeks can make in World Oil prices.
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/nz-fuel-security-assured
And
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/new-zealand-supports-global-action-ease-pressure-global-fuel-prices
https://www.iea.org/articles/new-zealand-s-legislation-on-oil-security

So next question is, How long can the IEA led by US keep Global Prices down when Supply Does not meet demand. ? Im picking not long.

Then What?

Throw in the “Murky” Russian Oil/Gas equation as
that is what is being used at “Our” overseas relient Refineries.

As Maggy W. excellent article about Bitumen for Roading and shortage due to Marsden Pt closure.

Where is this going to come from and at what cost?
Also Fertiliser for NZ Horticulture and Farming.

We really are at the Mercy of Global Markets.

Maybe there is some truth in ” You will own nothing but will be Hungry ( Happy).”
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April 3, 2022 8:29am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I steer away from public ownership of business. But the Government should have acquired the oil refinery. Better than the other dopy things they own.
  
  And don’t discount the Prime Minister not understanding the difference between crude oil and petroleum, what a refinery is, or where bitumen comes from.
  
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  April 3, 2022 9:02am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The Govt would only buy the refinery if it made fuel for bicycles.
    She also knows dam well what a refinery is and where the crude comes from to supply refineries that NZ buys from. Another lie by omission.
    There are enough working groups to keep her informed. Thick, but she is not that thick.
    
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    April 3, 2022 9:39am
  - Master Mariner
    
    BY, “I steer away from public ownership of business.”
    Yes indeed, Identifying Strategic Assets are not a Business.
    Anyway, You can say every Hospital has a Business Plan of Sorts. Why else have CEO ‘s and in fact , Most every organisation does.
    What we dont have here in NZ, Is strict laws and accountability for CEO’s.
    Maybe serious time we did.
    
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    April 3, 2022 10:31am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Thank God they finished Transmission Gully before we ran out of bitumen
    
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    April 3, 2022 3:38pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Why would they destroy Marsden Point by filling pipes with concrete? Why wouldn’t you keep the basic maintenance going so you have the facility available if needed?
  I don’t know, like maybe preparing your health system for a “pandemic” that you could see coming instead of doing nothing other than spending millions on controlling the narrative? Why would you set out to destroy infrastructure such as this?
  The Green New Deal and Great Reset moving rapidly closer.
  
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  April 3, 2022 9:06am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Every OECD country has oil refineries. Most middle income countries like Argentina have oil refineries. And the great majority of developing countries have oil refineries.
    
    Anyway Megan Woods says it is fine so why should I worry?
    
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    April 3, 2022 9:19am
    - Master Mariner
      
      See Minister Woods two Press releases above within 2 weeks.
      One , was we are all fine and dandy,
      The second, Hang on we are not too sure now.
      Whats the third going to be ?
      Any guesses?
      
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      April 3, 2022 10:33am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      [ Mod : the next “clever” remark about Ms Woods body image will get you (or anyone else) a month of navel gazing not on this blog ]
      
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      April 3, 2022 3:40pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      Do most countries of 5m have oil refineries? I don’t pretend to know the answer, but MP was pretty small by any standards.
      
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      April 3, 2022 4:11pm
  - Matt Long
    
    Apparently the filling of pipes with concrete is an embellishment according to the fuel storage company.
    
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    April 3, 2022 9:21am
    - Jimmy Brown
      
      Yes, yes I can see how that would be. Pouring concrete into the pipes to make them more attractive. Makes sense //
      
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      April 3, 2022 9:32am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      You spelled “lie” wrong.
      
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      April 3, 2022 9:37am
  - rjay
    
    It is fake news apparently.
    
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    April 3, 2022 9:49am
- Nickc2
  
  This is all falling ino place with our current Govt’s desires:
  * No bitumen, no roads, no cars,
  * No Petrol/Diesel, no Global Warming,
  * No Fertiliser, no Farming,
  It’s a great pity there wasn’t another NO whereby there would be no more current Govt.
  
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  April 3, 2022 9:15am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Reminds me of Stalins quote,
    
    Pluck a chicken of all its feathers and it will still come back to you for food. ( Something like that).
    
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    April 3, 2022 10:35am
- Master Mariner
  
  And right on Song,
  Japans is the first state what most ( I believe) SE countries to declare.
  https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Ukraine-war/Japan-will-maintain-Russia-oil-and-gas-projects-economy-minister
  Minister Woods, Is any of our “New refined” fuels coming from Japan?
  Lets see what Singapore and South Korea say next shall we ?
  
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  April 3, 2022 10:47am
- DeepBlue
  
  There was something about this yesterday (?) in Stuff. NZTA have been importing all their bitumen mix for a while now. The consortium with the distributed plant for the Whangarei mix are working out what to do as all the infrastructure is too valuable to them. They want direction from NZTA. Ditto a company in Taranaki is looking at getting into local production. It all comes down to what NZTA chose… screw the locals by continuing to import.
  
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  April 3, 2022 5:03pm
Harriet

“…..And a final note on racism. Most New Zealanders are LESS racist than most countries. Certainly Australia, Japan, and China where I have life experience. Does anybody raise an eyebrow if you encounter a couple where one person is Maori and the other is white with blond hair? Try being a white person in Australia with an aboriginal partner…..”

Firstly —- about half the aboriginals are blond.
I also personally know 1/4 aboriginals who look like they are Scottish in skin tone.

Secondly —- yes there are elements of whites in aussie who are racist but they tend to be the odd disparate group of ‘rich white teenagers’ at private schools. They tend to stop once everyone in aussie has piled on.
Why – because now over 75% of australians have been born overseas, or have a parent who were born overseas.

Seriously, things have changed – even in the NT. Big business and is employing aboriginals across the board and across the country. No one has any issues with it. And lots of aboriginals don’t want assistance, Forest the mining boss said they ‘just want to be like everyone else, work hard and do what we do’.

Meaningful employment at the end of the day. Cheers Bene.
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April 3, 2022 8:36am
- Harriet
  
  Also, when you hear or read about ‘racist school kids clashing in park’ etc. —- it’s islanders vs african vs lebanese. It’s not whites.
  
  It’s not about aussie poverty, but poverty coming to Australia, that’s happened since the Europeans first arrived in aussie, scots & irish, then the poor europeans after the war, Italians etc. then the vietnamese, Islanders, now the ME and Africa.
  
  And then the kids who haven’t really congregated around trouble when they first arrived — Singapore, HK, Japan, Korea, Europe……..rich, educated, cultured.
  
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  April 3, 2022 9:10am
Unity

You are absolutely right Benedict Yu. Most of the poor outcomes for ‘Maori’ are through their own lack of effort. I know many ‘Maori’ who are decent worthwhile citizens getting by on their own efforts proving that being Maori isn’t the problem – it’s the choices they make and their lack of effort. Also there are no ‘Maori’ as such any more. Everyone is of mixed race.
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April 3, 2022 8:37am
- namron
  
  Well said UNITY. “It’s the choices they make and their own lack of effort.”
  Everyone’s lives are the result of their conscious and subconscious choices. We can see the results of other people’s choices and this could be a significant guidance for our own decisions. The decision is just the 1st step and then there is the follow-up action for a successful result.
  
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  April 3, 2022 2:51pm
Matt Long

Transmission Gully opening is great news for Wellington, meanwhile for North Auckland The Waka Koha can’t even guess when the Warkworth Motorway and link road might open.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/300553261/aucklanders-stuck-with-warkworths-dreaded-intersection-for-longer-than-expected
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April 3, 2022 8:45am
- MCōs
  
  Now that the Transmission Gully road is open one could be forgiven for forgetting NZTA had numerous guesses at a completion date.
  The first one was hilariously set for April-2020.
  Eventually the project took 33% longer than the original programme due to an earthquake somewhere else, bad weather in *ahem* Wellington, pandemic.
  
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  April 3, 2022 2:00pm
ClanMcleod

So it looks like there is one politician prepared to speak out regarding the multiple fiascos and cover ups around the covid circus of the last 2 years.
Queensland Senator Malcolm Roberts.
Everything he says in this speech to a sadly almost empty senate applies equally to NZ.

There is NO WAY that the MoH or Medsafe actually checked that the vaccines were “safe and effective” as is repeatedly claimed. No tests or checks were done, instead they relied on data provided by Pfizer, a criminal organisation. Data that is now revealing multiple flaws in all aspects of their trials and testing.
As the Senator states:

“Section 22D (2) of the Therapeutic Goods Act 1989 requires the Secretary of the Department of Health to ensure the quality, safety and efficacy of the vaccines were satisfactorily established for each cohort for which the provision of approval is being granted. Data recently revealed in court papers in the United States clearly shows that vaccine harm was apparent in the clinical trials that Pfizer, BioNTech and others conducted. This information, if ATAGI had bothered to ask for it, should have resulted in a refusal of the application for provisional use. No data was provided to the secretary regarding individual test subjects—technically, anonymised patient clinical data. No independent analysis of the fundamental issues surrounding novel mRNA vaccines was conducted in Australia – none in Australia! Instead, the secretary took Pfizer, AstraZeneca and Moderna’s word for it.

So did Medsafe and the MoH. These companies have horrendous records of fraud and malfeasance, yet our bureaucrats took them at their word? That is beyond belief.
The whole video is very much worth watching and listening to. What he says is fully applicable here.

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/at-last-a-brave-politician-tells-the-truth-on-covid-vaccines/
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April 3, 2022 9:01am
- mawm
  
  I do like how he ended.
  
  “How the hell do you expect to get away with it. We’re not going to let you get away with it. We are coming for you, we have the stamina to hound you down and we damn well will.”
  
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  April 3, 2022 11:55am
kowtow

Will buckets of money be showered on men ?

‘Nearly two-thirds of the people who have died in New Zealand’s Omicron outbreak are men, and experts say the science is inconclusive as to why.’

and what we’ve known all along.

“However, Prof Baker said it was important to note that there were other “much, much bigger risk factors” for Covid-19, beyond biological sex.

Underlying health conditions and age were more likely to influence a person’s chance of dying from Covid-19, he said.”

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/more-men-dying-omicron-outbreak-women
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April 3, 2022 9:03am
- ClanMcleod
  
  The problem is we don’t actually know whether people are dying from covid or just that they were positive when they passed.
  But yes, there is no doubt that age and underlying health conditions are the biggest contributors. As with many other illnesses.
  
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  April 3, 2022 9:51am
  - Ehlana
    
    How has it been determined that they were men?
    
    Were they all asked, before they died, about their gender identity?
    
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    April 3, 2022 2:09pm
- emmess
  
  Men are more likely to get murdered?
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-shooting-new-lynn-victim-robert-hart-tests-positive-for-covid-19/J7GON3TOB44563L4WWJYTUZNCQ/
  
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  April 3, 2022 9:58am
- I remember when
  
  So there are other “much, much bigger risk factors” than 66%.
  
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  April 3, 2022 11:33am
than

Here’s what Australia thinks of our PM:
https://spectator.com.au/2022/04/land-of-the-long-white-lie/
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April 3, 2022 9:27am
- dcrane
  
  Oddly doesn’t even mention He Puapua and Ardern’s neo-racist redesign of government and the outrageous push for so-called “co-governance”.
  
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  April 3, 2022 10:08am
- Gravelroad
  
  @than-
  Yes, interesting- but I don’t think the thought processes, knowledge and decision making attributed by the writer to Ms Ardern (at any age) is realistic – at all.
  Ms Ardern is a socialist foot soldier at personal level and a puppet figurehead at governmental level.
  End of story really.
  
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  April 3, 2022 10:22am
- kevn
  
  @than… arden the destroyer.
  Dogma rules comrade.
  
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  April 3, 2022 11:48am
dcrane

Daylight savings has always been contentious. That’s because there is no clear solution to the problem of optimizing the timing of daylight given the reality of seasonal changes. This Stuff essay offers the simplistic suggestion that one solution was always obvious.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/128229978/daylight-saving-is-over-and-its-time-new-zealand-stopped-going-backwards

What really bugs me about this is that I see it as another example of government policy being helicoptered into our various countries from afar, from places like the UN and WEF. Are we to believe that after decades it’s a coincidence that the United States, Europe and New Zealand have all independently awakened to the realization that the DST policy was foolish? No, someone on high has decided that the policy must go, for some reason that has not yet been given.

Another example of helicoptered-in government: reducing speed limits (Vision Zero). Also net zero emissions….also much of the covid lockdown policy…
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April 3, 2022 9:34am
- rockape
  
  I.am from Scotland and in my town in mid winter daylight started at 0858 and lasted 6 hours and 32 minutes. Mind you the local golf club had a tournament that had a tee off time of midnight on the 21st June.
  
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  April 3, 2022 12:20pm
  - pdm
    
    rock – you must be from well north.
    
    My father was from the Isle Of Lewis and my wifes maternal ancestors were from Tongue.
    
    Both great places to visit.
    
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    April 3, 2022 5:02pm
- Jade Warrior
  
  I don’t know why we don’t simply set our clocks at NZ standard time and just leave it there. Given the degrees of longitude that NZ occupies, our proper standard time should be 11.5 hours ahead of GMT (and I understand that is what it once was).
  
  So by keeping NZST at 12 hours ahead of GMT we already have a form of year round summer time anyway.
  
  I am amused by the efforts of Te Anau to try and keep their clocks at 13 hours ahead of GMT all the year round. Given how far west they are, they should be the last place in NZ to try such an experiment. The good folk down there had better get used to 10am sunrises once winter arrives …
  
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  April 3, 2022 12:30pm
blue collar

Carn the all whites !
90 minutes from qualifying for World Cup .
When we make it we will hammer the Spanish n Germans , japs will be a cricket score …
Full attack footy , don’t sit back n defend , get it in the back of the net n then go n get another one !!
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April 3, 2022 9:42am
- pdm
  
  bluey.
  
  We have form – after all we were the only unbeaten team at the 2010 World Cup.
  
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  April 3, 2022 5:04pm
ClanMcleod

I’m not sure if this was discussed the other day, I only just was made aware of it.

Drs Matt Shelton and Peter Canaday have had the decision to suspend them for speaking out about aspects of the covid circus overturned.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/128237986/two-doctors-suspended-for-speaking-out-about-the-covid19-vaccine-win-appeal

Excellent news. A pity the judge stated that “I believe there is indisputable evidence that those who are not vaccinated are more likely to spread [Covid-19] and more likely to suffer more serious consequences themselves”.

This statement is the judge’s belief, it isn’t actually true. There is abundant empirical evidence now available that vaccination status not only doesn’t give superior protection from covid – the opposite is true.
Of course head of the Medical Council Curtis Walker jumped on the flawed opinion of the judge and amplified his comments as though they were facts. They are not. It is misinformation.

Well done to the two doctors. Well done to the judge for at least seeing that the punishments meted out for disagreeing with Ardern were ludicrously harsh. The original decision, like many others during the last 2 years were nothing to do with health. They were punished for disagreeing with the “single source of truth”.
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April 3, 2022 9:48am
- Lee C
  
  https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/at-last-a-brave-politician-tells-the-truth-on-covid-vaccines/
  
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  April 3, 2022 11:51am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Hillary, if only it was true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-HPD2ySKvE
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April 3, 2022 10:08am
- MCōs
  
  You still fixated about Hillary Clinton?
  There’s people you can see about that.
  
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  April 3, 2022 6:29pm
oldfella

Some good laughs in this weekly roundup of US political humour. Enjoy!
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/04/the-week-in-pictures-slap-happy-edition.php
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April 3, 2022 10:18am
- curry4me
  
  Thanks for posting these. I’ll re-post elsewhere. They’ll be appreciated there too.
  
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  April 3, 2022 5:01pm
Maggie Pie

Stopped off in Parnell on my way home from Mass to get a few treats for lunch.
Called in and gave my partner’s mum a couple of little goodies.
She just txt to see if I realised, that if you hold a Danish Pastry up to your ear, you can hear Copenhagen.
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April 3, 2022 10:21am
- I remember when
  
  I sea.
  
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  April 3, 2022 11:29am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

ME: Alexa, remind me to go to the Gym.
ALEXA: I have added Gin to your shopping list.
ME: Close enough.
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April 3, 2022 10:27am
- curry4me
  
  Definitely 10 out of 10! Don’t forget the tonic water.
  
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  April 3, 2022 12:05pm
- Ehlana
  
  Alexa is a product of science.
  
  Follow the science!
  
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  April 3, 2022 2:11pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

For Fun:
USA – 2024.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3nVUvOa-9Tk
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April 3, 2022 10:35am
Yvette

If co-governance is surely a 50/50 vote between Maori and non-Maori
Does that not require one side to contribute the number to a make a majority decision?
So co-governance policy may be made by common sense or “MMP king-maker” type decisions?
Just saying … for a friend
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April 3, 2022 10:46am
Maggie Pie

Yet even more stront from Marja 🙁

DIDN’T HAPPEN!!

https://twitter.com/MarjaLubeck/status/1509637912715210752
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April 3, 2022 11:05am
I remember when

Commerce Commission Report on Grocery Prices:
If the Commission is right, that there is $1 million a day excess profit, that equates to $365 million a year.
Therefore another major competitor would eat into the profits of the duopoly, not merely excess profits.
At present there are 56 Pak n’Save, 140 New World and 180 Countdown Supermarkets plus Four Square and Owner Operated Stores.
The Commission noted, while there is an increasingly diverse fringe of other competitors they are unable to compete effectively on price, product range or store location.
It also noted, consumers benefit from a range of innovations.
Secondly, any change to supplier payments, while beneficial to individual and growers collectively, would appear to be unlikely to result in markedly lower retail prices.
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April 3, 2022 11:25am
Nickc2

Australia’s finally sussed NZ’s Govt and Ardern in particular. The result’s not pretty.
A great deal of what the Australian Spectator site says is not new to KBers, but not much of it’s being reported by our bought-and-paid-for MSM.
https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/04/land-of-the-long-white-lie/
Well worth a quick read.
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April 3, 2022 11:26am
- pdm
  
  Nick.
  
  Not sure it was Langes’ legacy.
  
  More the legacy of Sir Roger Douglas, Richard Prebble, Trevor de Cleene and a few others but, mainly Douglas.
  
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  April 3, 2022 5:11pm
blue collar

Cultural differences
I’ve spent a lot of time with Maori .married into a large family . Work mates . School mates .
Patterns against health outcomes I’ve witnessed . The fuck the white man attitude , it’s ok to miss school , don’t need a doctor, suffer in silence , stuff working ,bloody govt takes it all n we just slaves to the man ….
When surrounded by uncles n aunties n cuzzys, n bros n sisters all promoting the same ideology it’s hard not to adopt it .
I was brought up to respect doctors and it’s in my interest to trust them , I’m quite happy for a doctor , male or female , to look at my private parts .
I’m embarrassed to sing in front of a crowd . I Was brought up believing only poofs sing in working man 80s
Maori are quite happy to sing in front of a crowd , brought up that way .
Most I know avoid the doctor at all costs , don’t trust the medicine , shy about their body , because they were brought up that way .
They can change if they spread out and meet new people with different viewpoints .
Trouble is a lot don’t .
In the mining camps in oz all the Maori would hang out together , I’d give them shit saying they should spread out a bit n hv some different conversations . But they are just hardwired to group together .
So in society they can become trapped with a narrow view point . Of their own making . Trapped with irrational fears . Trapped with non productive ideals that lead to poverty and poor health .
N it’s all their own making , plenty get out , plenty learn , plenty say no to gangs , …. Reinforcing the victim mindset and fuck the white man mentality is definitely not doing them any favours though .
So , if the health stats say the Maori die younger , then there is a cultural problem , ideals and beliefs , lifestyle , that they need to sort out .
Not the govt sort out
The Maori to sort out
It doesn’t take money
It takes a change in culture
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April 3, 2022 11:31am
- NZer In Exile
  
  As Ben Shapiro has ably pointed out, racial disparities in success (or the lack thereof) in various key life markers has virtually nothing to do with “racism” (in the west at least) and much to do with the prevailing cultures within those racial groups. It’s right in front of the faces of the race hustlers but they choose to ignore it and point fingers at other races instead.
  
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  April 3, 2022 3:45pm
- Inandout
  
  bc, yes I have encountered that brick wall attitude among Maori rellies and luckily my son in law is a very hard working guy. He also hunts and fishes and is the type of Maori who keeps the sort of attitude you mention at arms length. As far as governments are concerned I am amazed at the billions funnelled into Maori ‘initiatives’ which often magically seems to disappear when auditing is required. It is really scandalous that no one appears to require strict auditing when anything Maori is named.
  
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  April 3, 2022 5:40pm
- MCōs
  
  My original father in law died of throat cancer, but nobody knew until the post mortum because he wouldn’t go to the doctor.
  One of his sisters was diabetic, but was haphazard about taking insulin and died young as a consequence.
  Her husband years later needed a hip replacement, but told me he didn’t want nurses gawking at his bits.
  The whole generation of the family, who were pakeha, died by around seventy, but they had a good time on the way!
  
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  April 3, 2022 6:21pm
I remember when

I remember when we used to say ‘look after yourself.’
Apparently, if everybody did that, it was enough to keep you, and everyone else safe.
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April 3, 2022 11:40am
Lee C

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/at-last-a-brave-politician-tells-the-truth-on-covid-vaccines/

One million AUS ‘donated’ to major political parties in Australia, by big pharma.

I wonder if the same happened here?

That would explain a lot, eh?
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April 3, 2022 11:50am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYZWCmx0pJs

David Seymour’s first interview in The Platform Studio.

All of our technology is going in next week, but nonetheless this week David Seymour was our first ever in-studio guest on The Platform. Sean Plunket put questions to the leader of the ACT Party on co-governance, polling, and how to have tough, but necessary conversations. We thank David for being our first guest in the studio and look forward to having him back when we are all kitted out! [22:36]
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April 3, 2022 12:10pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UBAm_lbU2M

NordVPN is censoring conservative websites!

I guess it’s time to use another VPN. [7:13]
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April 3, 2022 12:10pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  curry4me you might want to change video platforms as well. YT (and their parent company) are up to their necks in totalitarian policing of anything that disturbs the feeble minds of the woke.
  
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  April 3, 2022 4:06pm
  - curry4me
    
    I know. I only post stuff from there if it doesn’t appear elsewhere. If a contributors stuff is on BitChute, or Rumble. I’ll post that version.
    
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    April 3, 2022 5:04pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Here’s the guy’s same video on Odysee:
  
  https://odysee.com/@RenaissanceHorizon:0/nordvpn-is-censoring-conservative:4
  
  Use this instead if you don’t want to give oxygen to the big tech woke-grifting platforms.
  
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  April 3, 2022 6:13pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Any suggestions as to which one to use? Cheers.
  
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  April 4, 2022 8:14am
Maggie Pie

My partner was just saying there’s Roy Morgan poll out tomorrow.

Any bets where Jacinda’s at?
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April 3, 2022 12:19pm
- rockape
  
  I would guess. She is somewhere up shits creek.
  
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  April 3, 2022 12:24pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Lost both paddles
    
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    April 3, 2022 2:12pm
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    More than that I hope.
    
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    April 3, 2022 2:48pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  “Any bets where Jacinda’s at?”
  
  Hopefully sliding down the S bend, but anything is possible in the current clownworld!
  
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  April 3, 2022 4:10pm
- curry4me
  
  Slightly further up a well known tributary without a means of conveyance. Maybe another cut in gas tax in the offing. Or maybe the masks will be scrapped. That’d be easy.
  
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  April 3, 2022 5:05pm
oldfella

A clever take on the Gilbert and Sullivan song…
“I am the Very Model of a Russian Major General”
http://pc.blogspot.com/2022/03/i-am-very-model-of-russian-major-general.html
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April 3, 2022 12:26pm
- curry4me
  
  Very well done. I’m sure Zhukov would not be best pleased if he was still around. This war in Ukraine looks like Finland in 1940.
  
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  April 3, 2022 5:08pm
- Sacha
  
  Excellent!
  
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  April 3, 2022 5:27pm
Maggie Pie

And despite our Cleaning Lady having the weight of the world on her shoulders (her younger sister escaped Ukraine and is stuck in Poland), nevertheless, Tatiana has still retained her sense of humor…….she retweets 😀

https://twitter.com/BadTasteTee/status/1509890087198371848
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April 3, 2022 12:32pm
Nickc2

Aust switches its trade from China to India.
https://michaelsmithnews.typepad.com/.a/6a0177444b0c2e970d02942fa20aa0200c-pi
What have we been doing? That’s right, FA. We’re still wallowing in the dregs of what the UK has supposedly given us post BREXIT and the stuff Aust wasn’t interested in. Please remind me when that’s due to kick in.
Our future economic status couldn’t be any worse if planned by a bunch of Kindy Kids.
“What’s that you say?” “They did.”
Who would’ve guessed?
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April 3, 2022 12:47pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  I can tell you currently more than 95% of the non food stuff in the major retail chains in Aus is still Made in Chai na.
  
  I’ll believe Aus is seriously diversifying when that changes significantly. There are a number of SE Asian and Asian countries that produce textile and high tech stuff well enough. Yes we’ll have to pay a bit more but that is the price of current and future security. That doesn’t come free. Too many people have been getting rich from flipping stuff from a regime that constantly shows itself to be not an ally (to put it mildly).
  
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  April 3, 2022 4:19pm
- MCōs
  
  China, India
  India, China
  
  Two peas from the same pod.
  
  I don’t know what trade deal Oz has conjured up with either country, but they’re only catalysts for companies doing the business.
  
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  April 3, 2022 8:51pm
Bridgenag

Well……… spoke to niece from Moo Loo land …. so pleased they didn’t take father in laws advice to buy in the mainland where the water gets switched off. Goss… the main reason for the Police without name tags or numbers into the river of filth was that ClarkE was in court in Whangarei on that day…. ……..! What…yes….friend has on the phone of him in the docks so to speak…. sigh
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April 3, 2022 1:22pm
Bridgenag

photo
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April 3, 2022 1:30pm
fightingtemeraire

If Jacinda is down to 35% in the RM Poll and she is going lower and lower each poll, I wonder whether Grant Brutus Robertson will roll her when she is in the US?
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April 3, 2022 2:49pm
- H. Upmann
  
  Robertson would have preferred PM down to 10% and he knows that. The Cabal are not THAT stupid.
  
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  April 3, 2022 5:09pm
Maggie Pie

RANDOM IMPERTINENT QUESTION

If you are able to charge twice as much today for your goods & services than you did a year ago, why on earth wouldn’t you?

Unless of course you were a total moron.
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April 3, 2022 4:25pm
- MCōs
  
  You can charge anything you want, particularly if you’re an insulin peddler in the US.
  
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  April 3, 2022 5:52pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    As my partner said, “even the amount of kickbacks going on in this country would be eye-watering”
    
    No one ever went broke landing a government contract.
    
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    April 3, 2022 6:22pm
    - Nickc2
      
      How about the Transmission Gully Project or did this Govt waive the Liquidated Damages clauses due to Covid?
      
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      April 3, 2022 7:21pm
    - GJM
      
      Ever done work for a government department or organisation? I have provided services to a few. They all took at least twice as long as the private sector, frequent and late scope changes, and were difficult to get answers or client instructions from them. I have made the mistake I the past of charging the usual fees as I would in the private secure, and lost my shirt.
      You have to charge twice as much to breakeven.
      
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      April 3, 2022 8:12pm
surfing

There’s a decent study on Ivermectin just published…

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2115869

Pretty much a gold standard trial.

I’m interested to know what the ivermectin fans think of this study, and why it is irrelevant.
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April 3, 2022 7:33pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Hi surfing. I’m laying down the gauntlet:
  
  1. Read this analysis of that study
  
  2. Tell me you still think is is ‘gold standard’
  
  Your move. I’m waiting…
  
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  April 3, 2022 8:59pm
  - surfing
    
    I was wondering which rabbit hole you would choose, you’ve gone down the deep state conspiracy hole.
    
    Your ‘analysis’ is written by a nobody who hasn’t tried to understand the research by asking someone who does. Also, he has blocked public comments so is obviously not keen for debate.
    
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    April 4, 2022 11:08am
- krazykiwi
  
  Hint: In your ‘decent study’, which I posit you didn’t even read, the trialist numbers don’t add up, and they only started administering the anti-viral drug 7 days after symptoms manifest, ie after the viral phase of the disease was over and the cytokine storm phase had kicked in.
  
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  April 3, 2022 9:06pm
  - surfing
    
    After 7 days?
    
    “acute clinical condition consistent with Covid-19 within 7 days after symptom onset”
    
    Symptoms ‘within’ 7 days, is quite different to ‘after’.
    
    If ‘ivermectin’ worked, this study had a good chance of detecting it. It is certainly the best ivermectin study to date.
    
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    April 4, 2022 8:33am
Nickc2

Aussie humour, or is it?

The Australian Tax Office actually commented on this one
The importance of accuracy in your tax return

The ATO has returned the Tax Return to a man in Townsville after he apparently answered one of the questions.

In response to the question, “Do you have anyone dependent on you?”

The man wrote: “2.1 million illegal immigrants, 1.1 million crackheads, 4.4 million unemployable scroungers, 80,000 criminals in over 85 prisons plus 450 idiots in Parliament, thousands of ‘politicians’ and an entire group that call themselves ‘Senators’

The ATO stated that the response he gave was unacceptable.

The man’s response back to ATO was, “Who did I leave out?”
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April 3, 2022 7:41pm

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