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March 14, 2022 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 14 March 2022

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General Debate

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Captain Mainwaring

Who gives a flying f***k if the dropkick Hayley Holt is pregnant, and why does it even make the news?
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March 14, 2022 8:01am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Click bait. Yesterday it was the most read article on Stuff. I don’t watch (New Zealand) TV so I don’t know who she is. But she is clearly front of mind with many people.
  
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  March 14, 2022 8:05am
  - Biscuit
    
    Benedict, unless they do things differently in Celebrity Land, one person (at LEAST) had more than his MIND out in front…
    
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    March 14, 2022 8:20am
  - kowtow
    
    Most read ?
    
    Tells you all you need to know about the average $1uffed reader , who is likely to have a Window Teddy Bear Shrine to the Goddess of the Plague, a tramp stamp ,is a swing voter , person with vagina aged between 18 and 54.
    
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    March 14, 2022 8:59am
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      please add “sipping OATS milk latte”
      
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      March 14, 2022 11:06am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  You shouldn’t read such stories if they upset you so much.
  
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  March 14, 2022 8:08am
  - Russ the Muss
    
    For the first time, I agree with you. It’s a feel good news story, I’m not interested in it, bit won’t read it, lifestyle and other non hard news pieces do have a home in newspapers and digital platforms. Relax people.
    
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    March 14, 2022 11:39am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Obvious to my mother-in-law . Hayley’s been clutching a piece of paper in front of her midriff for months.
  
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  March 14, 2022 8:16am
- Maggie Pie
  
  WHOA! May be a little harsh Cap. I know Haley & Josh.
  They’re over the moon after Hale’s had a miscarriage during the lockdown in 2020. You may recall me breaking that news on GD at the time?
  
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  March 14, 2022 8:37am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Sorry Mags. She tried to get into Parliament on the Greens list. That’s enough for me.
    
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    March 14, 2022 8:49am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      No need to be sorry Cap!
      Most of the girls at tennis reckons she’s a silly bitch as well 😀
      
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      March 14, 2022 9:03am
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      Yes! I think she came third in Auckland mayoral election or is it Cannabis Chloe? Both look dumb to me any way.
      
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      March 14, 2022 11:07am
  - David George
    
    Yes Maggie, good for her and hope it all goes well.
    You’ve probably seen this fascinating discussion between her and Jordan Peterson. I suspect he helped her resolve some doubts.
    Clip starts from the relevant part but it is, of course, well worth watching in it’s entirety.
    https://youtu.be/VICsw43SOV8?t=394
    
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    March 14, 2022 12:35pm
- Stellaboxer
  
  Who is she ? Seriously I’ve never heard of her.
  
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  March 14, 2022 8:37am
  - zulumonster
    
    OMG – dontcha know that she was once Richie McCaw’s squeeze? Almost royalty really!! Your ignorance is concerning! /s
    
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    March 14, 2022 10:26am
    - Biscuit
      
      Never got pregnant when she was with Richie, right?
      
      Must be true about those Aussie Rugby types claiming he always came in from the side…
      
      Postscript:
      
      I didn’t know that Hayley had had a miscarriage. Wouldn’t wish that on anyone. My Mum had three of those before I arrived … and I never had any reason to not know I was treasured.
      
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      March 14, 2022 11:20am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    She will be your Broadcasting Minister in the 2023 Labour-Greens Progressive gummit.
    
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    March 14, 2022 11:08am
- Nickc2
  
  Someone obviously did unless it’s due to immaculate conception or artificial insemination.
  
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  March 14, 2022 8:45am
- bjools
  
  Takes up column inches, that could be set aside for our current disaster….Ardern Govt.
  
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  March 14, 2022 8:55am
- k1w1
  
  … [deleted] Meant to say, also what’s the fascination with that Jay jay Feeney? Again, who gives a shit?
  
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  March 14, 2022 10:08am
- MCōs
  
  Personally I’m not particularly interested that Hayley Holt is pregnant, but I think your nasty description of her is uncalled for.
  
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  March 14, 2022 1:03pm
mikenmildagain

Happy Pi Day – the International Day of Mathematics!
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March 14, 2022 8:06am
- cmm
  
  Tau day is twice as good. I’ll wait until 28 June.
  
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  March 14, 2022 8:38am
- alloytoo
  
  Don’t know why we have a special day for Pi, after all it’s a constant.
  
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  March 14, 2022 8:53am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Actually not a constant. 3,142…….. forever.
    The interesting thing to me is that Pi should be 6.284… ie Double.
    This is what it would be except for a simple mistake.
    
    Hence 2 Pi this and that.
    I find that fascinating.
    
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    March 14, 2022 9:35am
    - Local Miller
      
      Hence Tau, which is double Pi. The problem really is that we’ve been teaching people about Pi for so long, getting everyone to rethink this is a major task.
      
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      March 14, 2022 2:36pm
  - Local Miller
    
    Not sure if you’re being sarcastic about “why we have a special day for Pi” March 14th, or 3/14 or 3,14 is the generally accepted short approximation for Pi, hence today is Pi day.
    
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    March 14, 2022 2:39pm
    - Ehlana
      
      So I guess when someone (American) was naming days, that gave them something to call 14th March. It doesn’t work so well outside the USA – 14/03 rather than 3/14.
      
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      March 14, 2022 2:50pm
- Lance
  
  Should be all observe a moments silence at 3:14pm?
  
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  March 14, 2022 10:23am
  - Mike
    
    Or eat a pie.
    
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    March 14, 2022 12:52pm
- oldfella
  
  Mike, does that include Maori Mathematics?
  You know: 1 kumara 1 kumara = umm…
  
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  March 14, 2022 11:48am
  - Mike
    
    Don’t you do your own research?
    
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    March 14, 2022 12:53pm
Warren

Isn’t it funny when you are in trouble in the polls you quickly resort to cutting petrol prices to offset the damage National have done to you when stressing the will overturn all your all your stupid tax increases you have put in place.
I thought tax cuts was a dirty word for Labour ,but it seems when in trouble revert to opposition policies.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-accepts-cost-of-living-crisis-petrol-tax-cuts-among-government-options-to-ease-burden/CXQ72CW4C2FMER3PCEC5ARDLYI/
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March 14, 2022 8:13am
- bjools
  
  Nationals argument now, If she is going to do what we would do….just cut out the middle man and elect us.
  
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  March 14, 2022 8:58am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  She will fund it by increasing tax on Petrol vehicles to be sold from April 1st or by increasing ACC levy from April 1st. Stupid women will never give you back your money.
  
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  March 14, 2022 11:10am
iMP

COLIN CRAIG. Well, here’s a hoary ol chestnut. Public notice that “Craig v Stringer” kicks off today in public before Justice Campbell in the Auck High Court, the last act in this 2015 saga.

Craig sues Stringer for saying Craig sexually harassed Rachel MacGregor. The plaintiff (Mr C) has already been found to have done so in several courts, yet still this case persists.

The case was settled several years ago by Stringer, refiled by Craig, was thrown out of court by justice Palmer, came back via the Appeals and Supreme courts. Hopefully this is the curtain call in this long-winded Shakespearean tragi-comedy?
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March 14, 2022 8:13am
- Biscuit
  
  Sheesh…
  
  Kiwibloggers would no doubt wish to add to the list but Colin is front and centre on my list of PEOPLE I’D PREFER NOT TO HEAR OF EVER AGAIN.
  
  Wellingtonians may remember that another serial litigator, a chap named Walmsley, cluttered up courts here over his being told to pull down a wall he’d built that blocked a neighbour’s views.
  
  His appeals against being so instructed went on and on and on and on – with him losing each and every time – until one enlightened judge said ‘Enough is enough!’ and directed that no further applications for ‘justice’ were to be entertained…
  
  Is there not an Auckland judge who couldn’t follow suit here?
  
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  March 14, 2022 8:32am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Stringer/iMP loves it though. Possibly wishes the cases would never end.
    
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    March 14, 2022 9:08am
  - iMP
    
    Ironically “ enough is enough” is verbatim what one of the presiding judges did say, as well as the appeals court. But I guess no one is listening…
    
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    March 14, 2022 9:29am
ClanMcleod

More information on the WHO plans to centralise future pandemic responses.

“Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, WHO Director-General, said the decision by the World Health Assembly was historic in nature, vital in its mission, and represented a once-in-a-generation opportunity to strengthen the global health architecture to protect and promote the well-being of all people.”
The former terrorist head of the WHO goes on to talk about the amazing cooperation that saw the vaccines developed at speed. He fails to point out the obvious, that the vaccines are a complete disaster and may well be resulting in a massive spike in excess death. We are still in the early days of this event and the data that is emerging is not good in regard to outcomes of the vaccination programme.

https://www.who.int/news/item/01-12-2021-world-health-assembly-agrees-to-launch-process-to-develop-historic-global-accord-on-pandemic-prevention-preparedness-and-response

Biggest funder of the WHO, The Gates Foundation. They also fund GAVI, the vaccine alliance. What could possibly go wrong? Maybe a health passport that means you don’t get to participate in society without having given yourself up to the latest jab designated by this unelected body?
The WHO has moved well beyond any usefulness they may have once had. They are getting far too big for their billionaire funded boots. They need disbanded immediately.
Then it might be time to take a closer look at the UN and their non elected plans for our collective futures.
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March 14, 2022 8:15am
- ClanMcleod
  
  James Corbett does his usual excellent analysis of the threats of the current push for digital ID and digital currency in his latest post.
  
  https://www.corbettreport.com/digitalid/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email
  
  We don’t need it and we need to resist it with everything we have. Otherwise welcome to the centrally controlled digital citizen as per the CCP.
  This is what covid was all about. Getting people to accept the need for a digital pass to take part in society.
  
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  March 14, 2022 8:20am
  - cjn
    
    Yesterday saw some kids coming out of the vaccine centre with their mother excitedly looking on their cell phones for confirmation of their new status as citizens of the digital society. I’m not sanguine that we’ll survive this, ClanMcLeod
    
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    March 14, 2022 8:27am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      40 years of being enamoured by flashing digital screens with zero actual encouragement of critical thinking coming to fruition.
      
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      March 14, 2022 8:43am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  No wonder you don’t post under your own name writing crap like that. You sound like an anti vaccine nutter who threw shit at cops, you have a good supply.
  Did you ever tell the board if your wife showed her mask exemption pass?
  
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  March 14, 2022 8:30am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Monday morning, Brian’s daily bile begins early, some things in life never change.
    Nobody threw shit at cops. I’m not opposed to vaccines, I’ve had all of them except the Pfizer. Lucky me, it turns out it isn’t a vaccine and doesn’t do what it’s supposed to. Go figure.
    As for your unhealthy and bizarre interest in knowing my wife’s medical status, as I stated the first time, it is none of your fucking business or anyone else’s. Don’t you understand how the rules work? Ignore that question, of course you don’t. You’ve demonstrated your ignorance enough times for anyone to realise you’re clueless.
    
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    March 14, 2022 8:36am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Poor old Brian. He has such a miserable life his only “joy” is in trying to make everyone else’s lives miserable also. You sad piece of garbage.
      
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      March 14, 2022 11:07am
  - alloytoo
    
    I think you’ve demonstrated adequately why people feel the need to post under pseudonyms.
    
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    March 14, 2022 8:59am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      At this point I believe Brian’s obsession that people he disagrees with using their real name should be treated as a threat and considering his murderous history, a serious one.
      
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      March 14, 2022 10:17am
  - Viva Christo Rey
    
    No doubt you will be first on the line to get the Mark of the Beast and be damned for all eternity. That is what this is.
    
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    March 14, 2022 9:09am
    - iMP
      
      Actually the “ mark of the beast” is not a chip or a literal mark. But let’s have that theological Twister game another time.
      
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      March 14, 2022 9:31am
      - Viva Christo Rey
        
        Always interested in another theory, trust me friend I have read a lot of them LOL
        
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        March 15, 2022 11:08am
  - glowworm
    
    Brian, you are either very brave posting under your real name. Or a fool.
    
    Ad hominem attacks like this suggest the later I’m afraid.
    
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    March 14, 2022 9:32am
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      Glowworm – some other reasons people post under their own names:
      1. they have nothing to lose by doing so
      2. they are seeking publicity, fame or notoriety
      3. they want to avoid the delay waiting for moderation
      
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      March 14, 2022 6:28pm
- edhunter
  
  Could you please enlighten me as to some of this former terrorists terroristic activities, couldn’t find much online.
  
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  March 14, 2022 8:44am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    You couldn’t have looked very hard? My first search revealed multiple links. I’ve even selected one from Reuters for you so you don’t write it off as a “conspiracy” site. The others are worth checking out though.
    
    https://www.reuters.com/article/ethiopia-conflict-who/ethiopia-accuses-who-chief-tedros-of-backing-tigray-rebels-idINKBN27Z17C
    
    Then of course there are his links to the Gates Foundation, GAVI and the Clinton Foundation.
    He has moved in many murky circles.
    
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    March 14, 2022 10:52am
    - SoloView
      
      @ClanMcleod
      
      The Reuters link says
      ” Birhanu did not offer any evidence to support his accusations.”
      
      Lots of links that all seem to have pretty much the same wording. Reporters interviewing the internet perhaps….
      
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      March 14, 2022 4:20pm
- Jim
  
  Yep Clan. It’s the globalist UN et al using covid again to undermine state sovereignty and democracy, whilst coincidentally taking yet another step (alongside digital ID and cashless banking) towards a one world authoritarian government.
  I’m guessing that our current PM will willingly approve of the concept.
  
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  March 14, 2022 4:54pm
Yvette

A report “written by economic consultancy Sapere, which was quietly added to the Ministry of Culture and Heritage website this month”, criticises the $55 million media fund.
The Public Interest Journalism Fund was established in 2021, with New Zealand on Air tasked with allocating the money over three years to “preserve and enhance public-interest journalism that will otherwise be lost due to the impact of Covid-19 on newsrooms”

The economic consultancy Sapere review of the $55 million fund established to preserve public interest journalism against the impact of Covid-19 found mixed support within newsrooms and concluded the case for ongoing funding of commercial news is “not strong”.

While some newsrooms said the fund was providing valuable support in training and improving the diversity in newsrooms, the authors of an independent report heard warnings within newsrooms that funding decisions had crossed into editorial decision-making and had led to inflation in journalists’ salaries.

… “Several stakeholders also observed that they expected the PIJF to improve media diversity and plurality because of its strong focus on Te Tiriti o Waitangi and supporting Māori and Pasifika journalists,” Sapere wrote.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/reports-warns-55m-journalism-fund-risks-protecting-established-players-from-new-entrants/MUPXVMT3A3N4NTGCSEP7TFR2TY/

The above quoted article does not seem to address any examples of the impact of Covid-19 on newsrooms
Media, being of course a communication industry, didn’t actually communicate to a noticeable degree any significant impact of covid before the fund emerged to relieve that impact, and no explanation has ever been given of how the figure 55 was determined,

However while much comment is made by readers here of this funding being a favour to buy aggrandisement of the Ardern Government, few seem to be aware of the strong Maori filter that applies to another agenda – a view that the Treaty of Waitangi established co-governance of New Zealand. NZ on Air also has this view. They will not fund any media organisation or journalist who doesn’t subscribe to this view.
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March 14, 2022 8:15am
- Ehlana
  
  And that’s why the government shouldn’t fund the media.
  The Treaty as partnership is incompatible with one person, one vote. This government seems intent on implementing it and the media are effectively prevented from commenting on this – probably the most major constitutional issue of our time.
  
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  March 14, 2022 9:04am
- kowtow
  
  How refreshing , a consultancy with a name that people can relate to.
  
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  March 14, 2022 9:05am
Yvette

PM Jacinda Ardern denies Government spending wasteful, pushes back on claim NZ in cost of living crisis
“I wouldn’t describe it that way, there is an impact that people are feeling undeniably but I wouldn’t describe it in that way,” Ardern told AM. – March 7,2022

Revealed: Kāinga Ora spent over $24m of taxpayer money in four years on its own office renovations
Despite thousands of state homes not meeting healthy homes standards, Newshub can reveal Kāinga Ora’s spent millions doing up its own offices. – March 13
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March 14, 2022 8:17am
- artemisia
  
  Minister Woods said
  
  “This looks very good. This shows an organisation that is being rebuilt over a four-year period from an organisation that had been scaled down into a flog off agency of state houses.”
  
  No mention that most of those ‘flogged off’ were sold at deep discount to Community Housing Providers (and qualify for the same taxpayer subsidised rent), with others removed for redevelopment, or because there was no demand (back then), or because they were uneconomic to upgrade / fix / decontaminate.
  
  Also no mention of the massive increase in the social housing waiting list, due mainly to her government’s policies.
  
  And no mention that in January minus one house was ‘added to’ the KO pool. I guess all those extra staff were too busy.
  
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  March 14, 2022 8:41am
- bjools
  
  I also have been told that ALL govt. departments have been “working ” from home 3 days a week on a rotation basis. Meaning more people have been employed (2 rotations), doing less work.
  
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  March 14, 2022 9:07am
NeverMindTheBollocks

With the fall of the hermit queendom, there’s just one country holding out in a zero covid way, which is China.

Brace yourself for the global economic shockwave when covid escapes the clutches of the Communist Party.
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March 14, 2022 8:20am
Yvette

Justice Minister Kris Faafoi admits Government’s proposed hate speech laws are still not ready
… I think, one of the things that came out of a concern of the reaction to us undertaking that work or starting that work is we think it actually kind of whipped up the very thing we’re trying to prevent.”
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/03/justice-minister-kris-faafoi-admits-government-s-proposed-hate-speech-laws-are-still-not-ready.html

Well, there you go: – talking about “hate speech” laws has apparently stirred up “hate speech” – as Ardern defined it: “When you see it, you will know it”, so now that they have seen it, can they perhaps let us know it?

Now that Faafoi must have some examples – enough to slow him and his Ministry in their tracks – can he detail just one instance, so we can better understand what he, Ardern, and Little a little, are actually on about. They couldn’t give examples last time around but now drop just one, so we can understand it.
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March 14, 2022 8:21am
- alloytoo
  
  Faafoi’s biggest problem it would seem to me, is that if he actually locked down some definitions, there’s likely to be a substantive list the next day doing the rounds highlighting examples from this government and it’s partners.
  
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  March 14, 2022 9:03am
- graham
  
  I reckon “hate speech” must be just like “misinformation” and “disinformation”.
  
  We’re told there is just so much of it around; yet it seems really, REALLY difficult for people to define it, or point to good solid examples that everybody can agree on.
  
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  March 14, 2022 9:08am
- Ehlana
  
  Yvette, it’s probably like the claims about how “the combined roles of advocating for children generally, monitoring the Oranga Tamariki system and advising governments are too large and complex for one individual” for which, similarly, there are “no concrete examples”.
  
  Perhaps it is enough for them that they “feel” these things to be so.
  
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  March 14, 2022 9:26am
- Tony Stuart
  
  The glacial pace at which Faafoi operates is actually good news. There’s not a snowball’s chance in hell that the RNZ/TVNZ merger will be complete before the next election, let alone by July 2023.
  
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  March 14, 2022 9:29am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    But remember the Minister doesn’t do a damn bit of work… just rubber-stamps the final deal which is taking place behind very closed doors.
    
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    March 14, 2022 11:00am
Frank the tank

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2022/03/13/pfizer-ceo-albert-bourla-fourth-covid-shot-is-necessary/

Uh oh……….
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March 14, 2022 8:22am
- alloytoo
  
  When are people going to accept that these “Vaccines” are obsolete and no amount of “boosting” is going to fix that.
  
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  March 14, 2022 9:04am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Why on earth would you interrupt the gravy train that starts with big pharma and ends with whoever puts the jab in your arm? Of course it’s going to be perpetual. Can’t have something that actually works.
  
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  March 14, 2022 9:23am
Ehlana

Remember our most open and transparent government ever?

Apparently they’ve decided to “reform” (abolish) the Children’s Commissioner role. One former occupant wonders: “The Cabinet papers claim that the combined roles of advocating for children generally, monitoring the Oranga Tamariki system and advising governments are too large and complex for one individual, and so should be separated. … But surely, if the care and protection system is too large and complex for a commissioner (a paediatrician, lawyer or judge, say) to grasp, this must also be true for the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki or the minister who has to understand the same system.”

And “[It is claimed] one can’t be both an advocate and a monitor of a system and adviser to ministers. If this is true, it must be true of all the independent Crown entities (ICEs) whose functions are to monitor a system, advise ministers and advocate for change.

Among the ICEs are the Climate Change Commission, Independent Police Conduct Authority, Financial Markets Authority and the Health and Disability Commissioner. …

Those making these claims in the Cabinet papers of complexity give no concrete examples to substantiate them and aren’t identified”.

Sounds par for the course for this lot.
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March 14, 2022 8:25am
- Ehlana
  
  Forgot to put the link in: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/did-we-offend-the-wrong-people-former-childrens-commissioner-russell-wills-challenges-govts-decision-to-cut-the-role/
  
  In case anyone has made a hobby out of collecting examples of openness and transparency from this government. I reckon you’d have a pretty large array by now.
  
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  March 14, 2022 9:28am
- Loddenthinks
  
  At least three of the four ICEs mentioned are worse than useless and should be disbanded.
  
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  March 14, 2022 12:29pm
Yvette

Pike River leaks
1
There’s the material leaked to the media –
[Dean Dunbar] showed Campbell Live a still from a leaked video, of a body in the same spot, way back in 2011. Newshub has decided not to show the body out of respect for the families
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/03/pike-river-latest-human-remains-discovery-in-exact-same-spot-families-claimed-a-body-could-be-seen-in-2011.html

Pike River footage leak not being investigated – police
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/329931/pike-river-footage-leak-not-being-investigated-police 2 May 2017

Pike River families call on people to leak more information about mine disaster
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/pike-river-families-call-on-people-to-leak-more-information-about-mine-disaster/5FI4NWW3KMKVGC4CGIZEYG2JAM/ 1 May, 2017

Who leaked material, mostly it seems to then TV3, or Newshub. So who held the material to be able to regularly leak it?

2
– and the physical leak in the mine –
Commissioning and operation of the fan
65. The main fan was first operated on 4 October 2010 [only weeks before the disaster], but sparks came from the fan shaft at the junction with the intake stopping through which it passed. To resolve the problem Pike removed a brass bush, which formed a seal between the drive shaft and the stopping. This left a gap which Mr Sanders estimated was at least 20mm. Mr White accepted there was potential for methane-contaminated air to leak through the gap if the fan was not operating.
page 93 chapter 8 volume 2, Royal Commission on the Pike River Coal Mine Tragedy
https://www.nbr.co.nz/sites/default/files/images/ReportVol2-whole_Part1.pdf

Was the discarded brass bush left near the fan motor – underground – or does it now sit on a surface workshop shelf, with the workshop about to be handed over to the Ministry of Conservation, and a chance that odd bass fittings on a shelf will go to metal merchant or to tip?
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March 14, 2022 8:25am
- bjools
  
  Strange cure to a sparking problem, considering, as far as I remember brass does not spark. That is why it is used.
  
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  March 14, 2022 9:12am
- bjools
  
  “To resolve the problem Pike removed a brass bush, which formed a seal between the drive shaft and the stopping. This left a gap which Mr Sanders estimated was at least 20mm.”
  If this bush was on the drive shaft, it was there to locate the shaft in a stable position.
  It may have temporarily stopped the sparking, which is small hot pieces of steel being worn off the part it is striking, now the shaft may have moved away from the part it is striking.
  BUT the shaft will now be free to move in the gap created by the removal of the bush, causing wear and the sparking will start again.
  
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  March 14, 2022 11:03am
  - Ehlana
    
    Shouldn’t the people who install/maintain such systems know stuff like that? And how to solve the problem properly?
    
    This was not the world’s first underground mine.
    
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    March 14, 2022 2:54pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Our Dear PM has flipped her flop yet again.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has accepted New Zealand has a cost of living crisis after last week declining to do so.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/03/jacinda-ardern-accepts-cost-of-living-crisis-to-announce-other-options-to-relieve-impact.html

What has changed in one week that suddenly makes her acknowledge that some folks aren’t managing to pay for the basics of life?

Was she really so thick and out-of-touch with the facts of daily shopping, because this cost-of-living crisis didn’t just develop last week.
The country has been going backwards since she became PM.
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March 14, 2022 8:27am
- ecco
  
  Throwing money at people who already vote for her isn’t going to get her anywhere either.
  She’s going to have to go for the petrol tax cut isn’t she. Internal polling must be worse than the Roy Morgan poll last week ?.
  
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  March 14, 2022 8:58am
  - glowworm
    
    I was the thinking about the polling this morning. Are overseas voters represented?
    
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    March 14, 2022 11:45am
- PeeJay
  
  What has changed? I suspect their internal polling and focus groups have shown them sliding into oblivion over this. Let’s face it, Ardern was the only thing Labour had going for them – her popularity lifted the party – think where they were with Little, Shearer and so on. Ardern’s popularity is sinking every poll – their internal polling will probably be showing it getting worse.
  
  Who’d have thought that having no ability to do anything in government, except make things worse, and relying on a personality leadership cult could turn out to be a bad thing?
  
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  March 14, 2022 10:07am
  - Don Beckett
    
    And that shows what a shallow and uneducated bunch the general voting populace of NZ is. Bacvk in 2017 the polls went from 22% for Labour under Little to 45% ? just because Jabinda became Labour leader. No policies, no academic qualifications, no international prominence (except as a junior socialist), no anything – just a smiling bobbing head and flailing arms.
    And many here are concerned that Luxon didn’t come out on full offensive. Here’s your reason.
    
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    March 14, 2022 11:20am
  - Graham Sharpe
    
    Is there any truth in the rumour that Labour’s internal polling shows their reliable support is now only 23%?
    
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    March 14, 2022 12:26pm
  - ecco
    
    Wonder what happened to all the female vote she had? Cindy’s policies must actually be hitting them in the pocket and infringing on their lifestyles. Hence the polls cratering for Cindy & Labour.
    
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    March 14, 2022 12:33pm
- trout
  
  Dear Jacinda and Grant, I regret to advise you that your tenancy of the 8th and 9th floor of the Beehive will terminate at the next election in 2023 (or sooner). My lovely wife; educated, liberal middle class, well off, and sensible (even if driven sometimes by feelz rather than rational analysis) has declared she will never again vote for Jacinda. Haven’t asked why, want to avoid a debate in case she changes her mind! Appears to be a perception of spin over substance and a ‘feeling’ that the Labour is pushing policies that have not been given electorate approval.
  My wife is typical of the demographic that voted Jacinda into power; without the support of middle aged, liberal, educated females she and her Party are up a creek without a paddle.
  
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  March 14, 2022 10:13am
Warren

I guess this could be a thought of conjecture but I wouldn’t mind having a bet that there is a Newshub poll out today contradicting the One News Kantar public poll from last week.
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March 14, 2022 8:37am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Looking at past 2 years they’ve run Feb/May polls, however given the new Pol Ed’s enthusiasm for Spinda it’s likely the appropriately framed questions went out last week although with a probable fuel tax cut this week the polling period will likely be extended as per Feb’s and some more questions added.
  
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  March 14, 2022 10:11am
Tony Stuart

Old Kainga Ora, eh? Look what they’ve been spending OUR money on now:

Despite thousands of state homes not meeting healthy homes standards, Newshub can reveal Kāinga Ora’s spent millions doing up its own offices.

While Housing Minister Megan Woods says that’s a good thing because it means the agency is growing, National doesn’t agree.

Kāinga Ora’s spent $24,354,759 of taxpayer money over the past four years on itself on office renovation.

The biggest spend ups were in the last financial year:

$230,661 went on signs
$829,797 on a complete fit-out and renovation in Christchurch
$5.5 million for a complete fit-out of the Newmarket offices
$12 million on a total renovation of its Wellington headquarters.
“I think New Zealanders will struggle to see why this Government is prioritising multi-million-dollar upgrades for swanky new offices,” says National’s housing spokesperson Nicola Willis.

But when asked how bad the millions of dollars on office upgrades looks, Woods had a different perspective.

“This looks very good. This shows an organisation that is being rebuilt over a four-year period from an organisation that had been scaled down into a flog off agency of state houses.”

It’s a change in tune from Labour when it was in opposition in 2016 and Housing New Zealand spent $3 million on an office upgrade.

“It’s just not on really,” said the party’s then-housing spokesperson Phil Twyford.

While Kāinga Ora spends millions on itself, it admitted in its last annual report just 21 percent of its homes met the Healthy Homes Standards – meaning 54,000 homes failed.

“And yet housing officials are prioritising upgrades to its corporate offices,” Willis says.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/03/revealed-kainga-ora-spent-over-24m-of-taxpayer-money-in-four-years-on-its-own-office-renovations.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Our old mate “Hey Clint” Smith reckons the reason why they spent so much was because of earthquake strengthening. It sounds a plausible excuse, until you quickly realise that earthquake strengthening is the responsibliltiy of the landlord, not the tenant.

Kainga Ora’s culture is dysfunctional. In a normal world, the Minister, Board Chair and CEO would take some responsibility for the culture of extravagance. One thing we know about this government however is that its values are far from normal, and no one will be held to account.

Roll on 2023!
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March 14, 2022 8:38am
- Gravelroad
  
  “Earthquake strengthening” is just another convenient excuse to gloss over wasteful spending by socialists with a big new money box.
  Same as with all those working groups a few years ago. $millions and $millions were spent on them – and for what purpose and result?
  They were a “thank you” party for Labour supporters.
  
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  March 14, 2022 8:53am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Earthquake strengthening? In ChCh maybe, but it would take up all $800k. Wellington? Bollocks, that stuff had deadlines of years ago. And Newmarket? Tell ’em they’re dreamin’.
  
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  March 14, 2022 8:58am
- Hollyfield
  
  “While Housing Minister Megan Woods says that’s a good thing because it means the agency is growing, National doesn’t agree.”
  
  What I find particularly interesting (but not surprising) is that the Government thinks it is good that the agency is growing. My definition of a country/government/society that is doing well includes that these types of agencies are not needed at all, or just minimally needed. A government having to provide lots of support means the government is failing to provide the conditions that will enable people to thrive.
  
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  March 14, 2022 1:49pm
- Ehlana
  
  Why Newmarket? Why not Onehunga or Penrose – rent would be cheaper, still on the central isthmus and with good access to the south, west and north through the SW motorway.
  
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  March 14, 2022 2:58pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  $231k on SIGNS? Tell me how that increases the agency’s capacity or capability.
  
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  March 14, 2022 6:18pm
Maggie's partner

Jacinda Ardern acknowledges that the horse has bolted and announces plans to announce plans to fix stable door
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March 14, 2022 8:40am
- Ehlana
  
  At which news, all the other horses bolted.
  
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  March 14, 2022 9:29am
pdm

Heard this on Mike Hosking just after 7am news this morning.

$25 a pop fund raiser for the Labour Party – ask Jacinda a question which she will answer in her capacity as Labour Leader.

Texter to Mike asks:

Where is Clarke Gayford?
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March 14, 2022 8:53am
- ecco
  
  Hahahaha!
  
  It’s probably just a stunt anyway to push through some donations under that fundraising category.
  
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  March 14, 2022 8:59am
- Bill Felt
  
  How much does it cost to get an answer to the question?
  
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  March 14, 2022 9:00am
  - alloytoo
    
    The PM refutes the notion that any questions will get answered at any price.
    
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    March 14, 2022 9:13am
- kowtow
  
  In today’s Ferald that story is positioned right next to a story of the PM with the Commonwealth Games baton ……
  
  ……. a very large , relative to the story , and very flattering photo of the PM goes with it.
  
  Well done to who over did the page layout and photo presentation. It almost looks like a promotion for a particular political party .
  
  But then I’m rather cynical about these things . $55m.
  
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  March 14, 2022 9:11am
- Tony Stuart
  
  We’re hosting the Leader of the Opposition next week, and have a fundraising dinner organised. Tickets are significantly more than $25, and sold out in 72 hours. A local business organisation is running a lunch to be attended by Christopher Luxon on the same day, and invitations to that event disappeared in a similar timeframe.
  
  Even if we factor in the limited number of tickets available to events due to Covid red light restrictions, Chris Luxon looks to be the hottest ticket in town.
  
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  March 14, 2022 9:39am
Lee C

Trudeau on Democracy – sounding just like Ardern:

https://youtu.be/AiY83iWcbcA
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March 14, 2022 9:02am
In Vino Veritas

The Rust set armourer has claimed that Alec Baldwin pointed a gun at Halyna Hutchins against all the rules, and against common sense and that he knew he should not point it at anyone on set under any circumstances. She also claims that she was not called to inspect the gun and give safety instructions before it was used on set.
Poor old Alec. I love it when the loud mouth leftists suffer karma. The only awful thing is that this shit-house cost a young lady her life.
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March 14, 2022 9:05am
- Ehlana
  
  “Never, never, let your gun
  Pointed be at anyone.
  That it may unloaded be
  matters not the least to me.”
  https://www.ardmoor.co.uk/blogs/news/fathers-advice-mark-hanbury-beaufoy
  
  Perhaps they should memorise these lines in acting schools.
  
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  March 14, 2022 11:10am
Maggy Wassilieff

Yet another example of Government hui and no doey

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018834082/oranga-tamariki-didn-t-meet-maori-over-new-sexual-violence-
services

Where the heck is Minister Marama Davidson?
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/portfolio/labour-2020-2023/prevention-family-and-sexual-violence
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March 14, 2022 9:06am
- alloytoo
  
  “Where the heck is Minister Marama Davidson?”
  
  Working long into the night trying to link Russian war crimes to the IDF.
  
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  March 14, 2022 9:15am
Lee C

Logical, informed, qualified and peer-reviewed summary of why we simply cannot go on vaccinating:

https://youtu.be/L_CvfiJ3QRQ
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March 14, 2022 9:14am
- alloytoo
  
  Because obsolete vaccines don’t work?
  
  (sorry, at work can’t watch YT.)
  
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  March 14, 2022 9:16am
Maggy Wassilieff

A good read as to how the Elites of Labour and National (Kelburn/Grey Lynn left and Remuera right) screw the system for themselves.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/13-03-2022/sunday-essay-the-chain-across-the-river
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March 14, 2022 9:14am
Rusty

The super rugby pacific comp is continuing to look like an embarrassing spectacle.

With no crowds and no atmosphere it makes you wonder how the teams can motivate themselves to even play.

We have the best club competition and players in the world and people watching here and overseas see empty stadiums?

It’s a farce.
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March 14, 2022 9:16am
- Yabster
  
  as opposed to allowing 20% capacity for the Womans cricket world cup- consistency- nah who needs it says Grunter.
  
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  March 14, 2022 10:07am
- Ehlana
  
  It was suggested this morning that the same spectator limit rules be used for all stadiums and all codes. Someone out there thinks Eden Park is the same place whether it is hosting cricket or rugby, so ought to be able to handle the same crowds.
  
  Clearly the campaign against rational thought is not going as well as planned.
  
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  March 14, 2022 10:29am
- Nickc2
  
  Yep, the rest of the world is acting in the same manner as they did when they discovered Y2K was a scam (carried on as normal) but the Hermit Kingdom of Lil-Olde-NZ’s Glorious Leader decrees there’s no change.
  It’s really disappointing to look across the Tasman (on the Sports Channel) and see their side of the competition playing to Stadia full of those things we’ve long forgotten about in NZ called Spectators and Rugby Fanatics like myself.
  
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  March 14, 2022 1:41pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING

I see Marja Lubeck has updated her Twitter profile pic.
Now includes the Ukrainian Flag.
Must say the replies are priceless 😀

https://twitter.com/MarjaLubeck/status/1502907660211224576

Something else I learned last nite…..her friends call her LUBEY.
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March 14, 2022 9:24am
- bjools
  
  Now includes the Ukrainian Flag.
  But not the NZ flag.
  
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  March 14, 2022 9:38am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Thanks Maggie, that’s given me a belly laugh!
  
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  March 14, 2022 10:50am
  - Ehlana
    
    Love all the comments on Twitter from people who claim to be in the highest tax bracket but don’t want tax cuts and those who talk about returning their tax cut to the IRD (something I’ve never heard any sane person suggest). Apparently none of these high-earning folk trust themselves to forward these excess earnings to the charity of their choice. And while they’re at it, maybe they could donate the time they currently spend on Twitter?
    
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    March 14, 2022 4:17pm
Surely Knott

Hailey Beiber, Justin Beiber’s famous young model wife, has just been hospitalised with a blood clot to the brain and stroke symptoms. Stuff did not report if she was vaccinated, or recently boosted.
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March 14, 2022 9:30am
- kowtow
  
  Same about the sudden , tragic death of Australian labor Senator , Kimberly Kitching.
  
  I’d warrant there’s more in our crap media about the Bieber bird than KK.
  
  Says it all really.
  
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  March 14, 2022 9:45am
  - Rusty
    
    kowtow -Possibly Shane Warne as well but who knows?
    Our govt is now admitting people are dying with covid rather than of it.
    
    So why isn’t it medically possible for some people to die from side effects through the vaccine?
    
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    March 14, 2022 10:52am
    - Surely Knott
      
      Or even both. Eg. as we are vaccinating in an outbreak , and the vaccine doesn’t stop you catching it – how many of the adverse events have been vaccinated and caught covid essentially getting a double doseage.
      
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      March 14, 2022 11:17am
- ClanMcleod
  
  It would be an inconvenient snippet of information. There has been a lot of “sudden death” in the last year, but of course correlation is not causation. Not yet.
  
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  March 14, 2022 9:46am
  - surfing
    
    The conspiracy widens. Tinfoil hats, boys!
    
    6 20
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    March 14, 2022 10:08am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      What conspiracy? That there are adverse effects and deaths after vaccination? No conspiracy, it’s a fact. We’re just in the process of compiling the actual numbers and not the relying on the suppressed government data.
      If you can’t see that there is an obvious problem, the size of which isn’t currently known then you really haven’t been paying attention at all.
      The fact you try to dismiss any concern so flippantly is revealing.
      
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      March 14, 2022 11:03am
    - Surely Knott
      
      No tinfoil hats needed. Just would like to know are the people who died recently vaccinated. Hiding the information is the conspiracy. Asking for information is transparency.
      
      14 2
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      March 14, 2022 11:18am
    - Its only I
      
      You may need to untangle your mustache from Jacinda’s nipple rings to read these links….maybe not, your posting here while latched on….
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YOD9drZasM
      
      The documents https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf
      
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      March 14, 2022 1:36pm
    - Stellaboxer
      
      What like all the other conspiracy theories that strangely keep turning out to be true?
      
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      March 14, 2022 10:37pm
- Sean OConnor
  
  Damned shame, Bieber is a reformed character and she had a lot to do with it.
  She’s a good Christian girl and Bieber’s values completely reversed while dating her, by all accounts.
  
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  March 15, 2022 12:57am
I remember when

An ode for Clarke Gayford:
Poetic justice.
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March 14, 2022 9:34am
I remember when

Are the “protestors” gathered together waiting for and planning their next step.
Or, has media research fallen short again.
Is the real situation for many of them that their Motorhomes are their homes – so home is where they are parked at the time.
With the price of diesel and petrol not going anywhere is the cheapest option.
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March 14, 2022 9:40am
Ehlana

And from Politik this morning, regarding Minister for Local Government Nanaia Mahuta’s decision the Commission currently running Tauranga City Council should have its mandate extended until July 2024: “They will be able to deliver on several complex programmes of work, including plans for the new civic centre precinct and investment plans for future growth.”

So the people of Tauranga shouldn’t get to vote on people making plans for significant new expenditure on their behalf? Or will they be running local referendums to get public approval before they make these “investments”?
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March 14, 2022 9:45am
- Nickc2
  
  While Nanaia Mahuta’s in an apologetic mood (post 3 Waters apology), why doesn’t she also apologise to the people of Tauranga whose rights she has overridden in denying them a say in the future development of their city?
  Two strikes already against Mahuta. Will she sling her hook and fuck off out of our lives and back to her imagined Maori Kingdom? Probably not, arrogance will harden her resolve for the third strike.
  
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  March 14, 2022 10:00am
  - Justitia
    
    Mahuta did not apologize for 3 Waters, least of all the “co-governance” scam at the heart of it. She apologized for overestimating the intelligence of New Zealanders who failed to understand the brilliance of her plan.
    
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    March 14, 2022 10:26am
    - Rumblestrip
      
      I noticed that too. Her word salad apology basically boiled down to: “I’m sorry… sorry you’re so stupid.” That is not an apology at all. In fact, it’s an anti-apology.
      
      What an unbelievably arrogant [expletive].
      
      Worst of all, the stupid and supine media uncritically reported this as if it were an actual apology from Mahuta.
      
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      March 14, 2022 2:28pm
- surfing
  
  This is a deplorable decision, and not widely reported. Tolley wouldn’t be voted by the people, yet is earning a small fortune from the people. No covid job worries for her. Nice gig!
  
  Taxation without Representation . As bad as it gets, democracy is dead in Tauranga.
  
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  March 14, 2022 10:07am
  - DeepBlue
    
    There will be a change of commissioners for next year. Job for Goff and any departing Labour party folks?
    
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    March 14, 2022 2:07pm
I remember when

History written as it happens, by the busy ants of Wikipedia: The Dominion Post: Jenny Nicholls:
‘And then the protestors got sick, the police got sick and the journalists got sick.’
No inference there then.
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March 14, 2022 9:53am
- Ehlana
  
  Proximity to Parliament is clearly bad for your health.
  
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  March 14, 2022 10:27am
Inandout

Was on SH1 and the BP station in Tirau had maybe 50 bikies’ machines parked on their premises. Further along the highway we were passed by a group of bikies and their arrogance when dangerously cutting in was astounding. They appeared to care not what speed they were doing and if picked up by speed detectors could not be prosecuted because of their sheer numbers. I then read some poor motorist had been beaten so badly his life was in danger. Welcome to lawless NZ. As a footnote, I have never seen the highway so devoid of motor vehicles.
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March 14, 2022 10:06am
- Sideoiler
  
  I wonder what Coster’s commandos were busy with at the time?
  
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  March 14, 2022 11:11am
  - kowtow
    
    Bashing and villifying the Freedom Folk .
    
    10 0
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    March 14, 2022 1:33pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Obviously practicing on the soft targets.
    
    10 2
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    March 14, 2022 3:46pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  No problem with fuel prices for the Mob
  
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  March 14, 2022 6:36pm
Maggie Pie

RANDON IMPERTINENT QUESTION

We watched ‘Jurassic Park 3’ last night.
First time I’ve actually seen any of those movies.
What intrigued me…was how the f –k do they know what Dinosaurs sounded like?
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March 14, 2022 10:08am
- Ehlana
  
  It’s possible to reconstruct what a face would look like from a skull, so I guess if you have enough bones, you can also reconstruct a throat and figure out what kind of noise it would make?
  
  Or, you know, it’s Hollywood and they just make it up.
  
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  March 14, 2022 10:11am
- k1w1
  
  Because they plastic-printed the bone/organ from the V-raptor that they then blew into to get the exact same sound, obvballs.
  
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  March 14, 2022 10:11am
- Black with a Vengeance
  
  I’ve always been intrigued as to what colours they were.
  
  Growing up they were all elephant grey. It seems absurd to think that now.
  
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  March 14, 2022 10:21am
- Nickc2
  
  They had been listening to and studying Helen Clark for a long time.
  
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  March 14, 2022 10:52am
- curry4me
  
  The shape of their neck area gives some indication of what shape their voice box would be. Sound engineers can extrapolate from that.
  
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  March 14, 2022 1:11pm
k1w1

Speeding Tickets…. Has the bar been set lower? I seem to be getting a few more camera tickets in recent months, and for exceeding by only a few kph.
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March 14, 2022 10:10am
- Local Miller
  
  Yes, 5km over and you will get pinged. No more 10km leeway.
  
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  March 14, 2022 12:06pm
- Inandout
  
  those tinted vans seem more numerous and if the camera points from the windscreen end I can expect one ticket. It is so easy to get to 110k/hr in a modern vehicle.
  
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  March 14, 2022 1:10pm
Black with a Vengeance

A lot of posters keep going on about this Left, Right thing. Please educate me in your own words as to what that is ?

It’s important that it be in your own words as that shows an understanding of the subject and being a simple man I prefer things put to me simply.

As Einstein once said, Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.

From my perspective, it seems to me a false social construct, invented by white European males in the 19th century, akin to the concept of race and appears to exist solely to defer accountability from one set of ruling males to another.

Now having become entrenched in the political system – to even be co opted by non whites and women – it’s used as an excuse to incite, irrational hatred and vitriol even to the extremes of calliing for violence and instigating wars.

For instance, regarding the current colonization of Ukraine by Putins forces. Is Putins government left or right and does it matter ?

From my simple vantage, much like the concept of race, the whole left/right false construct might benefit from being consigned to the history bin of failed ideas that are no longer fit for purpose.
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March 14, 2022 10:19am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  As I posted above…
  Read this:
  https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/13-03-2022/sunday-essay-the-chain-across-the-river
  
  Oh, you want it in my own words….
  
  1. Some folks like to tell others how to live
  2. Some folks like to get something for nothing (or for very little)
  3. Some folks believe they are special
  
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  March 14, 2022 11:17am
  - alloytoo
    
    And the rest of us are utterly indifferent and wish to be left alone.
    
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    March 14, 2022 12:02pm
  - Black with a Vengeance
    
    Thanks for that Maggie.
    
    So in essence the author and I are in fundamental aggreance but he refuses to state the ‘managerial class’ as being historically and still intrinsically white male with ideals based on writings of their 19th century counterparts.
    
    And that being of a managerial class your first duty is to protect the status quo and preserve your wealth and prestige by blaming someone else.
    
    That’s beaureacracy gone made with the changing of governments having little power than to tinker round the edges of an inherently corrupt and morally dubious system. One that’s foundations are fundamentally racist and sexist.
    
    If I were to infer deeper meaning from your 3 points it’s that…
    
    White men like to tell people what to do, feel entitled to get something for nothing (or for very little) and believe they are special?
    
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    March 14, 2022 12:07pm
    - marcw
      
      “White men like to tell people what to do, feel entitled to get something for nothing (or for very little) and believe they are special?”
      
      So you are white then BWAV?
      
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      March 14, 2022 12:37pm
      - Black with a Vengeance
        
        Half…though I’d like to think I’ve re-evolved beyond being authoritarian, entitled and special.
        
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        March 14, 2022 12:55pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Dunno BWAV. There weren’t many whiteys around when mainland Maori commandeered a British sailing ship & went to the Chathams and slaughtered most of the inhabitants, eating many and enslaving the remainder.
        
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        March 14, 2022 1:47pm
      - Jack5
        
        ?BWAV at 12.55’s …half.
        
        Shouldn’t a person who is quarter Polynesian have a pseudon of Fawn with a Vengeance rather than Black with a Vengeance? If the person wanted to keep the BWAV characters, perhaps, Beige With a Vengeance? ?
        
        Racial colours are as irrational as the concepts of race itself. We have northern Chinese and Japanese and many Koreans who are whiter than “White” people, and s Mediterranean “Whites” who are as brown as Polynesians.
        
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        March 14, 2022 3:36pm
    - alloytoo
      
      I disagree, the later part of the 20th and early part of the 21st century was characterized by the companies seeking out and retaining talent with increasingly indifference to their staff’s immutable characteristics.
      
      Granted this has been unevenly spread as some cultural elements have resisted change, but even in places with actual systemic racism like South Africa, Black and Indian people could, even before the fall of apartheid, rise to senior roles, leadership and ownership.
      
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      March 14, 2022 1:19pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      @BwaV
      Some facts:
      
      1.I am white…very white
      2. I am descended from Island folk
      3. My folks – on maternal & paternal sides were tribal – Clan Macdonald
      4. Once we were the most powerful people in Scotland and dominated the place for 4-5 centuries
      5. Our big chief sold us out. (long before the 19C)
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_Islay,_Earl_of_Ross
      
      Sometimes you have to accept that our leaders care more for their own hide and personal wealth than they do for the folks they purport to represent.
      
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      March 14, 2022 1:23pm
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      The Right want to work hard, look after their family and close friends and invest in the future.
      
      The Left want the Government to look after them, spend other people’s money and tell everyone what to do.
      
      Putin is a fascist who wants to steal other people’s money and tell everyone what to do.
      
      Clear enough for you?
      
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      March 14, 2022 1:33pm
      - Black with a Vengeance
        
        Crystal…cheers for that! I guess that puts me in the right then.
        
        The qualifier being I want to do it in a way that defines hard work, caring and investing by my cultural standards.
        
        Is that really too much to ask?
        
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        March 14, 2022 2:03pm
      - Alan Wilkinson
        
        We all want to do it in our own ways. No problem except for bureaucracies and politicians grabbing power to limit what we can do and how. Every time and way they do that makes us poorer.
        
        I’ve spent a bit of time in Rarotonga which I love and the way ordinary folk there work and manage their resources impressed me though not so much the corruption up the hierarchy.
        
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        March 14, 2022 3:28pm
      - Sean OConnor
        
        @BWAV, yes, it’s too much to ask, because you clearly hate and reject all cultural influences you see as “white” in a way that makes you a statistical freak, an outlier, not actually representative of any culture, including the one you claim.
        Most Pacific Islanders are Christian, and have a Polynesian culture that has absorbed some things from the West while rejecting others.
        
        The “culture” you claim is entirely a modern reinvention by you and maybe a few other fringe haters, it’s not actually shared by any representative population of Polynesians / Pasifika/ Pacific Islanders.
        They’re a good deal more sensible than you and realise that all people are flawed, deeply evil people come in all shapes, sizes and colours, and power tends to corrupt anyone.
        
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        March 15, 2022 1:30am
    - Nickc2
      
      Have you got a chip on the other shoulder as well?
      
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      March 14, 2022 1:46pm
- H. Upmann
  
  Oh yes, those bloody “white European males in the 19th century”. They certainly have much to answer for.
  
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  March 14, 2022 11:32am
  - Black with a Vengeance
    
    No shit…Putin is still drinking their Kool aid !
    
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    March 14, 2022 12:56pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  The first problem of course is that even at the most basic level politics are not one dimensional (i.e. Left/Right). There are also Liberalism, Conservatism, Authoritarianism, Nationalism etc that can go anywhere on the Left/Right divide.
  
  At a base level, the further left you go, the more Government control you accept (so far Left would be Communism/Marxism etc) and the further right you go, the less Government control (so far Right is actually Anarchism). Both extremes are obviously awful ideas.
  
  Everything else is an entirely different conversation.
  
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  March 14, 2022 11:47am
  - Miritu
    
    See the Nolan Chart which says that libertarianism stands for both economic freedom and personal freedom, in contrast to left-wing “liberalism”, which advocates only personal freedom, and right-wing “conservatism”, which advocates only economic freedom.
    
    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Nolan_charts
    
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    March 14, 2022 1:54pm
  - Sean OConnor
    
    I always say that the Left is about creating equality (of some kind, to some degree, by some means), while the Right rejects it and sees inequality (of some kind, to some degree) as inevitable, necessary, or desirable.
    
    The Right has more variation than the Left because the motivation for the Left is always a bit the same, whereas a Christian conservative with a populist streak like me tolerates very different inequalities to a libertarian like you; our reasons for rejecting the Leftist project are different.
    
    Adding an extra dimension or two (splitting social and economic policy, or adding a nationalist / globalist dimension) can help but you can’t reduce the complexity of human experience down to any set of Cartesian coordinates, however constructed.
    
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    March 15, 2022 1:24am
- Ehlana
  
  A statement like “it seems to me a false social construct, invented by white European males in the 19th century, akin to the concept of race and appears to exist solely to defer accountability from one set of ruling males to another” does not suggest a serious attempt at understanding, but rather a determination to fit facts into a pre-conceived ideology.
  
  A simple explanation would be that government has two key dimensions – social and economic. Think of one of those + shaped (Cartesian) graphs used in maths. Name the vertical axis social and the horizontal economic. Label the right end of the horizontal axis and the top of the vertical axis as free and the other ends as control.
  
  Any political party can be mapped onto the graph according to how free or controlled it wants either social or economic issues to be.
  
  “Left” parties historically favoured economic control (nationalised industry, compulsory unionism) but social freedom (abortion, divorce, etc.); “Right” parties favoured economic freedom (free markets, voluntary unionism) but social control (no abortion, divorce, etc.).
  
  Over time the ground shifts, so that Right parties do not re-criminalise abortion and Left parties do not reinstate compulsory unionism. That’s a reflection of changes in the ideas of people, called the centre, who are not committed supporters of either party. They are the swing voters, who will vote whichever way seems best to them at the time and every party with a hope of leading a government must always move, more-or-less, with them.
  
  “Left” and “Right” are convenient ways of describing an observed behaviour. The model might not be perfect, but then models rarely are and they are still useful.
  
  BTW, the model may first have been described among white males, but that is hardly surprising given they were the only people on the planet participating in such a system at the time. Not everything is a conspiracy.
  
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  March 14, 2022 12:30pm
  - Black with a Vengeance
    
    Thanks Elhana and apologies if I appear disingenuous.
    
    My intention is to understand how to incorporate a contemporary indigenous Pasifikan reference into 19th century patriarchal ideology gone mad with power.
    
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    March 14, 2022 1:00pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Well, I’d suggest you don’t do it the way this Samoan chap did.
      
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/422102/joseph-auga-matamata-sentenced-to-11-years-for-human-trafficking-and-slavery
      
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      March 14, 2022 3:30pm
    - Ehlana
      
      Apology accepted and sadly, being mad with power is not a 19th century, white or male phenomena.
      
      If you’re trying to describe contemporary indigenous Pacific people’s political preferences, it may help to think of control as also being about the collective – the idea that the group (or its leaders) decide and everyone follows. Freedom in a Western sense is generally very much about individual choice (and responsibility, though that bit is less popular).
      
      I doubt all contemporary indigenous Pacific people can be described with one term, but it may be accurate to say that their traditional culture is more collectivist socially and/or economically.
      
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      March 14, 2022 4:53pm
- Sean OConnor
  
  Left = wants to encourage, engineer, or force equality.
  Right = sees inequality as inevitable, necessary or desirable.
  
  Not relevant to every dispute (see: Ukraine), but relevant to many.
  
  I, for example, am a Christian conservative. I’m solidly on the Right because I believe there will always be inequalities, either social or economic, because people are born with different God-given talents.
  Some economic inequality is good, even, because someone who works harder should be richer than someone lazy.
  But on the flip side, all men are created equal in dignity and worth, and entrenched oligarchies don’t reward hard work either, so I’m fine with some limitation of inequality.
  
  Someone like yourself who just hates white people and wants to reduce all questions down to race, rather than any principle or question of good and evil, will find Left and Right quite useless.
  
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  March 15, 2022 1:17am
Maggy Wassilieff

The dumped boss of Oranga Tamariki has just swum across Foveaux Strait.

Moss swam 31.8km in 12 hours 27 minutes.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300540011/swimmers-battle-giant-jellyfish-and-unusual-currents-to-conquer-te-ara-a-kiwa
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March 14, 2022 10:30am
- cas
  
  Good on her. It takes a lot longer and is probably harder to swim Foveaux than Cook Strait now. And she has done Taupo and the Strait as well. Congrats that woman.
  
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  March 14, 2022 11:53am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yeah, its brilliant…
    
    and I wonder if she is pleased to be out of the dysfunctional mess of OT.
    
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    March 14, 2022 1:09pm
- krazykiwi
  
  As bit of an endurance junkie myself I can only applaud. It takes a special mental determination to prepare for and complete something like this. Well done Grainne.
  
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  March 14, 2022 2:09pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Pshaw! So much easier than wading through OT & MSD.
  
  Joking! I’ve met Grainne & have mucho respect for her.
  
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  March 14, 2022 6:45pm
sgthree

On thursday last week Ashley Bloomfield announced that from that day the Ministry of Health would be changing the way it reported covid deaths, to categorise them as to whether the person died of covid, whether they died from something else, or whether it was still under investigation.
Was this announcement just a test to see whether the media were awake? Since Thursday there has been no change to how deaths have been reported, and I can’t find anything on the Ministry’s web site. Or did they just forget to put out the press release saying they had changed their mind?
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March 14, 2022 10:34am
- k1w1
  
  You missed the option “or are they inept?”.
  
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  March 14, 2022 11:11am
Maggie Pie

My partner’s mum just called in on her way home from having her second course of Lip-Plumping Injections. Didn’t want to say for a coffee.
Looked a bit of a mess tbh. And actually quite painful by all accounts 🙁

She was telling me it’s amazing though just how much the world has changed. Apparently when she was a girl, her parents made really nasty jokes about people with big lips.
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March 14, 2022 11:27am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Maggie, being a woman of the world you may be able to explain to us why women think that pumped up lips make them look alluring.
  I think the uplift bra does much more for a woman’s appearance.
  
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  March 14, 2022 1:05pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    You’d be surprised at the number of guys who ask me if I know how to siphon diesel.
    
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    March 14, 2022 1:12pm
    - Yabster
      
      have you got a golf ball and a garden hose handy Maggie?
      
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      March 14, 2022 2:10pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        no, but I’ve got a cricket ball and a pool vacuum hose close by Yabbs.
        
        😎
        
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        March 14, 2022 3:48pm
ecco

I see Ardern’s messenger the Ferald attacking Nats & Luxon in more subtle ways, probably due to still wanting to get successful applications to Ardern’s media bribe fund.

Things like:
-putting up multiple unflattering photos of Luxon (think the cricket photo of Luxon bowling in the weekend article)
-running pro nats articles free to air overnight and then promptly putting them behind the paywall in the morning.
-putting up flattering photos of Ardern, (think Liam Dann articles run in the weekend).

The Ferald have realised there’s many ways to manipulate the stats on what they run. They aren’t really fooling anyone. Clearly their tactics no longer work looking at recent polls. Ardern will have to try something different with regards to the media bribes. About 90% of the commenting on Ardern, and articles run on her internationally are totally unflattering of her covid response and lack of competence and leadership.

Hope Nat’s and Act totally cut off access to these reporters and msm when they get back to power next election.
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March 14, 2022 11:33am
- Sparrow
  
  An excellent article by the CEO of KidsCan in the Herald all about poverty how it is impacting school children. As a volunteer at a decile 1 school now can’t attend due to Covid I saw firsthand what she was writing about. As usual article was behind paywall. Sent a email to the Herald saying article should be read by everybody. Ofcourse won’t happen
  
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  March 14, 2022 3:35pm
ClanMcleod

“I bought myself a politician” – Excellent song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QAKz_cxTlQ
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March 14, 2022 11:44am
curry4me

[deleted by Mod, KB is not a channel for promotion of convoy groups]
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March 14, 2022 12:06pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oKG50wSWUs

Iran, Venezuela and Arab nations join Russia’s rally against the West

And if Russia, the second-largest oil producer in the world, starts weaponizing crude oil exports too, then the US too could face problems. The US imports a lot of Russian crude oil. Last year, it imported an average of 209,000 barrels per day (bpd) of crude oil and 500,000 bpd of other petroleum products from Russia. [5:02]
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March 14, 2022 12:06pm
- Batman
  
  Given that the US is banning those imports, it would seem to be a moot argument about Russia weaponising it.
  
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  March 14, 2022 12:12pm
  - Inandout
    
    Bat, you probably wouldn’t be aware WW2 German war ships used to anchor off a Standard oil depot in Curacao to be refuelled. International oil suppliers have no qualms about who eventually buys their products.
    
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    March 14, 2022 3:11pm
    - Batman
      
      Fascinating historical factoid there! The answer is a bit of yes and no, a quick search turned up this:
      
      https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=h5YHyfXixz8C&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=standard+oil+curacao+german+oil+ships&source=bl&ots=r8GFBj6aDG&sig=ACfU3U0CN8A1J1u6a_04hkZnRBmyxEoqNg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjjxKnBw8T2AhXsS2wGHdItDq4Q6AF6BAg4EAI#v=onepage&q=standard%20oil%20curacao%20german%20oil%20ships&f=false
      
      The British seized those facilities in 1940 it seems. Definitely true that merchant ships were there but I’d be a little sceptical that Kriegsmarine warships would be there either late thirties or during the war.
      
      Anyway, yes oil companies can be souless and amoral but governments can easily steer them in the right direction via sanctions rules and penalities.
      
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      March 14, 2022 3:20pm
      - Inandout
        
        I was told that by a person who worked for Dutch Shell and that was pretty well known in Curaçao. Remember the big German industrialists who originally sided with Hitler had massive international interests in other companies. Of course many still exist to this day, even using their original trade names.
        
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        March 14, 2022 4:31pm
      - Batman
        
        In the early part of the war it could be true if it was U-boats and Marchant/raider ships. For capital warships I would put money on them not venturing that far west.
        
        By late ’42 the battle of the Atlantic had swung well in the Allies favour.
        
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        March 14, 2022 4:36pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Ha! Check out what IBM got up to in Europe during the war. Something to do with making the trains run efficiently …
      
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      March 14, 2022 6:50pm
    - Nickc2
      
      A renowned port for espionage.
      
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      March 14, 2022 8:28pm
ClanMcleod

Planet Lockdown – a documentary discussing the disastrous policies adopted in unison around the globe in the last 2 years.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2022/03/12/planet-lockdown-documentary.aspx
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March 14, 2022 12:17pm
Loddenthinks

I see the pink-haired attention-seeking hypocritical fakeanista is back in print again. Can’t abide not being spoken about, evidently. The headline is:

“Avoid Covid-19 if you can. Your brain will thank you.”

It just needs a small tweak to be both readable and very good advice:

“Avoid Siouxsie Wiles if you can. Your brain will thank you.”
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March 14, 2022 12:21pm
Warren

National says consultants getting rich under Labour :$35 million spent on transport ‘talkfest’ Nationals spokesman Simeon Brown said, the Government has been getting Wellington consulting, not getting it moving. Over the same period just $ 253,000 has been spent on construction for the multi billion program, which includes proposals for light Rail from the city to Island Bay and a second Mt Victoria Tunnel.
Instead it is making Consultants rich with the endless talk fests and working groups, the Government needs to get on and deliver the transport projects Wellington needs such as the second Mt Victoria Tunnel .
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/national-says-consultants-getting-rich-under-labour-35m-spent-on-transport-talkfest/J7SKBTSDXVGAUMRYWBZDVSV3LY/
It Looks like this Government has a bad habit of delivering and are all talk with no doey, lazy and out of their depth.
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March 14, 2022 12:38pm
- Nickc2
  
  The irony is that they will probably approve and start these stupid and grandiose projects before the next election and then lose the election.
  This will leave the incoming Govt with a choice of abandoning each project and paying out for their progress/completion or terminating these projects this incurring unanticipated costs.
  My guess is they will continue with these projects but where possible, trim back the excess.
  In short, whichever way will be a Finance Minister’s nightmare and Labour know this because they have planned it that way.
  
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  March 14, 2022 12:55pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  One of the consultants is married to JAG
  
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  March 14, 2022 1:15pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  That’s “all hui, no doey”
  
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  March 14, 2022 6:51pm
Yvette

Restructuring (Maorificating*) the Health Sector –
Some krap you can see coming – before it hits the fan …

Andrew Little, Health Minister – points to the vaccination programme as an obvious area where things would have been done differently, and better, if the reforms had been implemented before Covid struck.
“The vaccination programme would have engaged the Māori Health Authority right from the outset.
“It would have been well connected to Māori health providers and Whanau Ora providers, and we would have seen better traction, I think much earlier than we saw.’’

This seems to ignore that the Maori-relevant principles, essential for an adequate Maori covid response, were at the time available to establish in principle the Maori Health Authority: knowledge which could have been used on their covid response – but apparently wasn’t. Why not, if they had them to hand?

… Funding budgets for the two entities have never been revealed and ministers have been careful not to hint or over-egg the sort of increases that might be considered.
This might be the equivalent of the Pike River main ventilation fan

… “We’ve had to negotiate our Covid response through a system that was never really geared up to assemble a nationwide response to a single nationwide challenge.
“They’ve done it and it hasn’t been perfect, it was never going to be and there have been stumbles along the way. “But it’s illustrated why we should change if we want to deliver good quality healthcare in the future,’’ Little says
– because we’ll be able to blame 20 DHBs for a lot of it.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/littles-radical-health-overhaul-in-pandemic
* Reflecting on such a word, one wondered: would Maori be happy reading such a word, or would one agree it is in fact happening, like so much else, neither with permission, transparency, motivational integrity, or benefit of all. So it is
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March 14, 2022 12:46pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  I’m wondering whether it will turn out like SA where blacks prefer to go to white hospitals for staff who give a damn about their patients.
  
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  March 14, 2022 1:45pm
  - Yvette
    
    Alan Wilkinson
    which reminds me (thank you) that the last time I was in hospital here, because of the range in ethnicity of doctors and nurses, it seemed the most racial, but the least racist, environment I have been in for some time.
    
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    March 14, 2022 2:10pm
Maggie Pie

The thing I really really love about Twitter, is that everybody has now evolved from being infectious disease experts into world affairs and nuclear weapon experts.
Gold!! 😀
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March 14, 2022 1:06pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  I’m sure Twitter is worse for your mental health than Covid, Maggie. So many Twits, so little life – just like politics.
  
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  March 14, 2022 1:39pm
CAKE FACE1

How is New Zimbabwe doing?

2017 NZ government spending = $ 76 bn
2022 NZ government spending = $128 bn
Increase in five years = 52bn or 68%
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March 14, 2022 1:16pm
- cas
  
  Just like our latest insurance renewal notice.
  
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  March 14, 2022 3:25pm
Maggie Pie

And have you noticed how nobody seems to give a flying f**k about Covid anymore unless they’re Labor voters?
27 4
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March 14, 2022 1:45pm
Nickc2

Bumpling Biden’s at it Again
While Biden’s trying to buy Oil from Iran, Iran fires missiles into the US Consulate in Iraq.
Where’s Kamala Harris when you need her to explain what’s going on to her boss? Oh, that’s right, she’s having a Giggle Fest for the benefit of the Polish Media.
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2022/03/iran-capitalises-on-bidens-weakness-confusion-fires-missiles-at-us-consulate-in-iraq.html
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March 14, 2022 2:14pm
Surely Knott

Whats up with the biological labs.
*Russia and China say Ukraine have biological weapons and they want an investigation.
*US Senator asks under oath does the ukraine have biological weapons, and she answers they have biological labs and russia could get them and use them for weapons.
*Glenn Greenwald tweets that this is an odd response and it seems they are admitting that ukraine does have labs with biological agents capable of being used as weapons.
*Numerous papers call Glenn Greenwald a Qanon Trump supporter for pointing out that the expert seems to have just admitted that the Ukrainians do have biological labs that can be used for weapons.
*Then a hysterical piece from the Herald yesterday saying that Ukraine have 4,000 labs?!?? And that the russians could get them. Including an ebola-covid virus
* Looking back canada had a few problems from CBC June 2020 “Dr. Xiangguo Qiu, her husband Keding Cheng and her students from China were removed from Canada’s only level-4 lab over what’s described as a possible “policy breach.” . They shipped Ebola from their Canadian Lab to Wuhan .
* Aljazeera: The WHO orders Ukraine to destroy dangerous pathogens. Like many other countries, Ukraine has public health laboratories researching how to mitigate the threats of dangerous diseases affecting animals and humans including, most recently, COVID-19. It’s labs have received support from the United States, the European Union and the WHO.

“In response to questions from Reuters about its work with Ukraine ahead of and during Russia’s invasion, the WHO said in an email that it has collaborated with Ukrainian public health labs for several years to promote security practices that help prevent “accidental or deliberate release of pathogens”.

“As part of this work, WHO has strongly recommended to the Ministry of Health in Ukraine and other responsible bodies to destroy high-threat pathogens to prevent any potential spills,” the WHO, a United Nations agency, said.

“The WHO would not say when it had made the recommendation nor did it provide specifics about the kinds of pathogens or toxins housed in Ukraine’s laboratories.”

“The agency also did not answer if it’s requests were followed.”

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/11/who-says-it-advised-ukraine-to-destroy-pathogens-in-health-labs
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/ebola-henipah-china-1.5232674
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March 14, 2022 2:15pm
- RichardX
  
  You should also have a look at the Nunn-Lugar Project.
  
  https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/project/nunn-lugar
  
  A US program dealing with what was left behind during the breakup of the soviet union back in the 90s, mostly concentrating on nuclear but also bioweapons.
  
  https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/06/25/soviet-bioweapons-labs-georgia-armenia-kazakhstan-coronavirus-russia-disinformation/
  
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  March 14, 2022 4:16pm
  - Batman
    
    Also well worth your time is the podcast series At The Brink.
    
    https://atthebrink.org/
    
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    March 14, 2022 4:42pm
wilderbeast

Looking further into the Royal Society’s schemozzle with the Listener 7, specifically the loose woke role of the CEO. Occurs to me that these CV jockeys that jump from one role to the other across the public service and quango sector are loyal only to themselves. Hence their propensity towards wokeness
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March 14, 2022 2:21pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  You mean the RS CEO CV jockey who traded on her first name echoing that of the PM to parlay her way into the office of Governor General?
  
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  March 14, 2022 6:56pm
Lee C

Here’s a great update. A man wakes up after a three year coma and is brought up to speed.

https://www.facebook.com/575336058/videos/1842069609491220
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March 14, 2022 2:30pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  That is bloody excellent
  
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  March 15, 2022 1:47pm
Lee C

Word of the day: ‘Democide’ = Death caused by Government.
https://twitter.com/DowdEdward/status/1502313120210972673?fbclid=IwAR2RYEyuUTNABu9D8QFxDiqq8O7X6-d4ek-uXTcf9t1JNBAA-Wjb0nWKp-c
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March 14, 2022 2:37pm
Maggie Pie

Called up Ma a few minutes ago to see how she was feeling.
Sounded remarkably chirpy actually. Her new Drivers Licence had arrived and she was quite chuffed with how she came out in the photo.

I mean she’s not a bad driver . I’ve got no probs if she want’s to take me up to Parnell or somewhere. Just wouldn’t want to be with her on the Motorway 🙁

She’s still got her wits about her and at that.
Like she said…. “If I ever give some guy on a Motorbike a nudge, there’s no way I’ll be stopping to render assistance”

Very smart lady.
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March 14, 2022 2:44pm
CAKE FACE1

It is heart-breaking to watch the economic and social vandalism in New Zealand at the moment.

This once proud nation is being systematically sabotaged by our government.

None of the government’s decisions have any logic at all. For example, why are our borders still closed for tourists?

It is scary seeing that since 2017, government spending has risen 68%! It makes no sense, unless you read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsive_buying_disorder

“While initially triggered by a perhaps mild need to feel special, the failure of compulsive shopping to actually meet such needs may lead to a vicious cycle of escalation,[36] with sufferers experiencing the highs and lows associated with other addictions.[37] The ‘high’ of the purchasing may be followed by a sense of disappointment, and of guilt,[38] precipitating a further cycle of impulse buying.[39][40] With the now addicted person increasingly feeling negative emotions like anger and stress, they may attempt to self-medicate through further purchases,[41] followed again by regret or depression once they return home,[42] leading to an urge for buying more. The aforementioned symptoms are aggravated further by the availability of money through access to credit cards and easy bank loans.”
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March 14, 2022 4:16pm
Maggie Pie

Jacinda announces… “all Public Transport fares to be halved for next 3 months!”

Can see the grin on milkey’s face from here…..
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March 14, 2022 4:53pm
TT500

Bye – bye Cindy.
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March 14, 2022 7:12pm

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