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January 19, 2022 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 19 January 2022

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Yvette

Jerusalem, Jan 17 (Reuters) – A fourth shot of COVID-19 vaccine boosts antibodies to even higher levels than the third jab but it is not enough to prevent Omicron infections, according to a preliminary study in Israel.

“Yet, this is probably not enough for the Omicron,” [Regev-Yochay] told reporters. “We know by now that the level of antibodies needed to protect and not to get infected from Omicron is probably too high for the vaccine, even if it’s a good vaccine.”
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-study-shows-4th-shot-covid-19-vaccine-not-able-block-omicron-2022-01-17/

Add to that the theory of OAS – that each injection narrows the response of the immune system, so it limits what the immune system will actually respond to, including covid variations that are variant enough to be outside full detection and so marking for destruction by immune K cells – so the Government slowness, kicking the can as far down the road as they are able, requires those first vaccinated to catch up because they have now lost vaccine efficacy, but catching up may be pointless.

As Einstien is endlessly quoted as saying – “We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used to create them” – don’t you think
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January 19, 2022 8:03am
- cmm
  
  Absolutely correct Yvette.
  
  Every time you get a vaccination OF THIS TYPE you’re training your immune system better and better to look for one particular thing to attack and to ignore other stuff. As a result, your immune system is getting better and better at attacking the original variant by ignoring other variants.
  
  Your immune system is getting trained to fight an obsolete war: it is training cavalry officers up to face tanks.
  
  While we’re throwing quotes around: “Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results”
  
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  January 19, 2022 8:58am
  - dannz
    
    Not necessarily, it cuts both ways:
    “OAS is the double-edged sword of memory: it can provide an avenue to protection against a novel strain of a pathogen or create an obstacle to the elicitation of protective immunity.”
    https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/mSphere.00056-21
    
    Often you’re better off having trained cavalry officers than none at all.
    
    OAS is also not restricted to vaccines and can result from natural infection.
    
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    January 19, 2022 10:46am
    - cmm
      
      I think you missed the part I wrote in CAPS: OF THIS TYPE.
      
      Real vaccinations, and natural immunity, attack on many fronts. Maybe 20 or more KNOWN attack paths (and likely a bunch more still to be discovered). That means:
      1) If a virus mutates, it might evade one or two of the paths – but it can’t evade them all.
      2) Many of those paths might help against similar viruses.
      
      Thus, natural immunity can provide wider immune response to a wider group of viruses and their variants.
      
      But an mRNA vaccine that ONLY attacks the one specific spike protein structure is a one-trick-pony. A change in the spike protein and it no longer works. There are something like 32 mutation in the Omicron spike protein, so the fit isn’t that good any more.
      
      But back to the officer analogy:
      * An mRNA-trained cavalry officer can only work from horseback, directing cavalry to attack soft meat targets. Take away the horse and he is useless.
      * A “natural”/”traditional” cavalry officer has transferable skills. He’s still an officer that knows how to command men on the battle field and read the battle. He can likely adapt to a non-horse battle.
      
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      January 19, 2022 4:21pm
- Vory v zakone
  
  Yes as the results show.
  So how about Fortress Australia?
  
  https://twitter.com/DrEliDavid/status/1483197728045862915?t=sBvS6w5oo2MNr7uFxQhC3Q&s=19
  
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  January 19, 2022 9:10am
  - mawm
    
    We are about to do a take off with the same trajectory as Australia.
    
    If one gets one’s immune system stimulated by a vaccine for a specific antigenic site to produce the necessary antibodies, they are of no use when the antigenic site mutates and is no longer recognised by the antibodies.
    
    The solution is to vaxx harder and harder. Vaxx the kids, vaxx the recalcitrant, vaxx the flat-eaerthers. Vaxx, vaxx, vaxx. /s
    
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    January 19, 2022 11:19am
- Mickey
  
  Now Israel’s top vaccine expert is walking it all back.
  
  https://unherd.com/thepost/israeli-vaccine-chief-we-have-made-mistakes/
  
  Looks like herd immunity is the way forward for all other variants.
  
  NZ will follow the rest of the world in 18 months from now.
  
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  January 19, 2022 9:37am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  looks like Sweden got it right all along.
  
  You would think it would be all through the media.
  
  NZ facing Economic and Social destruction because we got it so wrong.
  
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  January 19, 2022 10:08am
  - kowtow
    
    They did .Just remember how constantly and unmercifully the Media Pardy attacked them .
    
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    January 19, 2022 12:02pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    And still.Nobody references Taiwan.???
    
    The original Gold standard which 10 days before the 1st NZ lockdown(Mar 2020). Jacinda publicly said we will follow Taiwans example.
    
    So where is Taiwan today?
    Doing fine by any measurement.
    But ignored by the NZ gummint fear mongering shills.
    
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    January 19, 2022 2:21pm
- Jim
  
  Agree, here is a very recent interview with Professor Cyrille Cohen, one of Israel’s leading vaccination specialists. MoH take not please!
  https://youtu.be/bnMMYJKZvnU
  
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  January 19, 2022 7:02pm
artemisia

About this social unemployment insurance. The government wants to make it compulsory to contribute, like ACC. Why not make it voluntary so people can choose to insure, or use savings, or tighten their belt, or maybe allow people to withdraw more readily from their own money in Kiwisaver? That way, working people take personal responsibility, can use their own money if / how they need or want to, pay for insurance if they choose to.

I know, personal responsibility, none of those pesky rules. This government will never go for it.
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January 19, 2022 8:11am
- pdm
  
  Arty – Personal Responsibility is not something that this government wants to get involved in.
  
  Much better to have as many people as possible dependent on `The State’.
  
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  January 19, 2022 8:38am
  - Mickey
    
    Yip, the more dependents you have the more votes you have.
    
    This is how most socialist states work, creates reliance and then you control EVERYTHING!!
    
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    January 19, 2022 9:39am
- mortis
  
  Is the kiwisaver model the way to go? Personal accounts and choice of provider/coverage. I think making them compulsory would be no different to the compulsion of the current system and we could start dismantling the taxpayer funded entitlement model.
  
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  January 19, 2022 8:44am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Just one problem. Today’s pensioners are not paid from a “pension fund” – today’s pensions come from the earnings of today’s taxpayers. So if we went to a “fund yourself” model today’s taxpayers have to keep shelling out for their parents – a benefit they won’t get – while saving for themselves.
    
    Thank you Mr Muldoon for the electoral bribe of all time. In the process he killed the Labour contibutory scheme which was just getting off the ground.
    
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    January 19, 2022 9:19am
    - Cassandra
      
      Labour’s scheme had some merit, Ian, but one fatal flaw which was that it was paid into a state investment fund, hence the Dancing Cossacks, as you might recall.
      
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      January 19, 2022 9:31am
    - Inandout
      
      Ian, the scheme to which you refer was in theory great but did anyone look to the future when the fund would have been so bloated it woud have bought every NZ company. The Super Board was government controlled and easily subject to ‘stacking’ and to my mind would have become so powerful as to engineer election advertising. Would anyone trust a government to ignore playing around with such a bountiful fund? Perhaps to be more exact, would anyone trust a politician to be honest?
      
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      January 19, 2022 9:32am
      - Ian Boag
        
        would have been so bloated it would have bought every NZ company
        
        Like the Cullen fund …. ?
        
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        January 19, 2022 12:02pm
    - Jack5
      
      Muldoon with this, and with his price and wage controls, and farm subsidies wasn’t so much Labour Lite as Labour Heavy.
      
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      January 19, 2022 9:40am
      - chukar
        
        But but,we are still using Muldoons infrastructure created how many years ago?
        There was some benefit from the Muldoon years ,pity the same cannot be said for this lot!
        
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        January 19, 2022 12:59pm
    - cmm
      
      While you might be technically correct, most people view this as a government mandated “pension fund” where you contribute now and get supported later.
      
      To change the rules immediately would cause huge problems. If they change it, then it will need to be done over decades of weaning. Thus it is far easier for everyone to drop it in the “too hard” basket.
      
      Of course the system was set up when most people retired at 60 and died at 65 or so – thus 5 years of support. Now people retire at 65 and live a further 20 years. That’s a different burden.
      
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      January 19, 2022 10:06am
      - mawm
        
        It will still have to be addressed along with retirement age, and the sooner the better. But it is political suicide so nobody wants to do it.
        
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        January 19, 2022 11:25am
      - Ian Boag
        
        most people view this as a government mandated “pension fund”
        
        Used to pay today’s pensions ….
        
        get supported later
        
        From your children’s taxes ….
        
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        January 19, 2022 12:00pm
      - Flossie
        
        Our taxes have for years been used to support families with children.
        
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        January 19, 2022 1:45pm
      - chukar
        
        Just asking,
        what social spending costs most ; the Pension,Working for Families,or general welfare ?
        
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        January 19, 2022 6:04pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Roughly two-thirds of social security and welfare spending is accounted for by superannuation (pensions) payments. The remainder is accounted for by various benefits, the largest types of which are the Jobseeker Allowance, the Accommodation Supplement and the Support Living Allowance.
        
        From a Treasury report …..
        
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        January 19, 2022 6:14pm
      - Hollyfield
        
        I read that when the superannuation was introduced, people became eligible for payments at age 60, and the average life expectancy was 59.
        
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        January 19, 2022 6:30pm
- tf78
  
  arte, it’s nothing but another ‘money grab’. They don’t know how to earn it, so they just take it, it used to be called thieving.
  
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  January 19, 2022 8:48am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  NZ citizens use common sense? Sorry, the Labour Govt banned it
  
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  January 19, 2022 10:11am
- Nickc2
  
  Don’t be fooled. This Govt is hungry for money to make it’s deficit look half-way decent.
  We already have Unemployment Insurance, it’s called the Unemployment Benefit and it’s paid for out of taxes being earnt during one’s own employment and others when not employed.
  If this scam is implemented, our income taxes won’t be reduced because we’re insuring ourselves against unemployment.
  This Govt has also hinted that such a scheme’s payout would be a %age of previous wage and only applicable for the first X (unknown) weeks.
  This has Robertson’s greedy sticky paws all over it! The last thing Labour Needs to another tax grab that won’t impress their Masters (the Unions).
  
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  January 19, 2022 12:42pm
  - artemisia
    
    New Zealand has a huge number of small businesses. They often have choices about how much work they accept or decline. So how would it work if each employee is laid off for a few weeks time to time due to not enough work on hand and then rehired when work picked up. After a decent holiday.
    
    Then there are independent contractors who have gaps between contracts. Maybe about 3 months. Is someone official going to investigate job applications?
    
    I suppose there are similar schemes around the world so how are those issues met?
    
    There is ACC with systems in place but there are also medical procedures to determine eligibility.
    
    Seems like the pool of funds could get siphoned off quite quickly, if payers feel ‘owed’.
    
    A while back people were suggesting that folk who worked after 65 should have their pension reduced. Mary Holm at the time asked IRD for comment and was advised admin would be more expensive than the savings. Sometimes called costs / benefits though the current government does not seem very aware.
    
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    January 19, 2022 1:54pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      Mary Holm at the time asked IRD for comment and was advised admin would be more expensive than the savings
      
      Rubbish. MSD and IRD are in each other’s pockets. They have no problem abating benefits for the dole etc. They would have no problem doing the same for oldies …
      
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      December 19, 2021 7:33pm
    - Nickc2
      
      As usual, either Robertson hasn’t thought this through properly or he’s punting this up as a diversion to something disastrous that’s going in within the Labour Party. Methinks it’s the Maori Caucus receiving badmouthing in public.
      
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      January 19, 2022 2:27pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      I suppose there are similar schemes around the world so how are those issues met?
      
      You could always look that up for yourself …. try Canada for a start (the one I am most familiar with)
      
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      January 19, 2022 7:26pm
pdm

Peeni Henare told Tim Dower on NewstalkZB this morning that the mythical place Aotearoa was sending two Navy ships to with aid to Tonga.

What a shame New Zealand has not yet got round to sending any – more announcements of announcements to follow obviously.
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January 19, 2022 8:15am
- igm
  
  I thought it was a gang member being interviewed . . . alas it was New Zealand’s Minister of Defence!
  
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  January 19, 2022 8:17am
  - Clownworld
    
    Gang member…govt…not a discernable difference.
    
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    January 19, 2022 9:14am
  - Nickc2
    
    IMO, without family connections, he wouldn’t be there.
    
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    January 19, 2022 12:50pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Honestly, this mix of Maori and English – it is driving me nuts. And it is not just media – I get it now in almost all dealings with Government agencies, including in technical documents.
  
  Many countries in the world have multiple official languages. If you look at Belgium, the French, German and Flemish communities are served by separate media, for obvious reasons.
  
  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-17208922#:~:text=Belgium's%20media%20scene%20reflects%20the,a%20single%20public%20broadcasting%20organisation.
  
  Of course if your primary language is Flemish you ae most likely going to have a second or third language.
  
  But you don’t have French speaking reporters suddenly launching into Flemish and back to French again.
  
  Can someone please explain why New Zealand cannot have separate Maori language media? Maybe there is simply no market for it? The current situation is absurd, yet here we are, putting up with it.
  
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  January 19, 2022 8:25am
  - Bridgenag
    
    They have 2 TV stations and ..?..radio stations.
    
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    January 19, 2022 8:31am
    - Fletch
      
      I have often questioned before – if we have a completely separate Maori TV station, why do we need to have a Maori news bulletin (Te Karere) on the regular English channel? Can’t the people who want the news in Maori (it can’t be very many) switch channels? I’m sure it would save money, too.
      
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      January 19, 2022 8:58am
      - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
        
        How do I switch channels? I am a Labour voter.
        
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        January 19, 2022 10:36am
    - Jack5
      
      NZ has separate Maori media: more than 20 subsidised tribal radio stations, and Maori TV with two channels, also funded by the State.
      
      Maori activist strategy, however, is what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is half-mine.
      
      Hence the takeover of Radio NZ led by Wily-Willie Jackson; the Maori language indoctrination by State TV; and the Maorification push by newspapers that have been corrupted by subsidies.
      
      Given we have two official, or de facto official, spoken languages, there is no need to Pidgin-ise English. It weakens the advantage of having as our main language, English, which is the world lingua franca of business, trade, politics, science, academia.
      
      NZ Pidgin also competes with Maori language for use by Maori.
      
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      January 19, 2022 9:51am
      - igm
        
        Not funded by the state; funded by overburdened taxpayers, of which very few are real income earning Labourites.
        
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        January 19, 2022 1:42pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Maori was never written down and never developed past the Treaty stage. Then it could work for local use, war, planting, family and tribal matters, slave handling…
    
    A real 20 c. language in the making. It got dissed by their elders in the 1930’s as they knew then it could not adapt to the foreseen changes. They have been proven right as Maori are now largely urban in mixed population. With intermarriage the Maori genes are likely close to only 5% of the population.
    
    The problems now are a last ditch stand by some tribal activists who seek to enhance their mana by re-taking NZ’s land and water and trying to force their outdated lingo on us. For some this fits their ancient religious connections too. All their cultural trickery is being employed. Pakeha beware.
    
    NZ has passed the Treaty stage.
    
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    January 19, 2022 8:42am
    - Mickey
      
      Maori is a primitive language and culture that believes in fairies and goblins.
      
      It has not grown with the 1st world, it has remained exactly where PNG and many other African nations have remained, in the stone age!
      
      In 10-20 years from now when maori has destroyed everything our grand children/great grand children will say “WTF WERE THEY THINKING WHEN THEY HANDED OVER POWER TO THEM”
      
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      January 19, 2022 9:45am
    - cmm
      
      There is no single Maori language.
      
      There are a group of similar languages.
      
      There was a Maori guy – a language tutor – with me in hospital two years ago. He had moved down from North Island to Chch. I asked him about local variance. His response was along the lines of: “If we couldn’t all speak English we’d be screwed.”
      
      Sure, he was probably over-egging the pudding, but he said he had been speaking Chch Maori for 6 months and still didn’t understand it all.
      
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      January 19, 2022 10:12am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        The 7 tribes who landed here were all from their own separate places. Polynesia has a common language but that also goes with local dialects which are quite diverse.
        It was well known earlier that there were tribal differences in NZ.
        
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        January 19, 2022 11:41am
  - I remember when
    
    BY
    The worry is that being Maori language proficent may often be the deciding factor in being employed by a government department.
    Rather than ability to perform the core elements of whatever job they are applying to fill.
    Hope that we get to ‘peak Maori’ soon and so we can move on to understanding whatever the message is.
    Often wonder how a couple of sentences of untranslated Maori at the end of the news will result in my learning any new Maori words.
    Incidentally, would the Tutaekuri river still have that name if it was in English.
    
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    January 19, 2022 8:57am
    - Unity
      
      I find it totally irritating. It also makes those speaking pidgin English sound rather stupid – more like they are muttering under their breath. They are wasting their time if they think interspersing Maori words in amongst English is going to help us learn the language. I’ve no idea what they are saying and have developed a ‘filter’ to block it out.
      
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      January 19, 2022 10:46am
    - mawm
      
      It amazes me that ideology always seems to lack common sense. Are there any Maori in NZ who don’t speak or understand English?
      
      I’ve seen it all before. In the mad days of Apartheid to get around its own laws the South African government had to create “International Hotels” for visitors who were not European. One of the conditions of working as a receptionist there was the need to be bilingual in English and Afrikaans…… just in case one of those visiting Taiwanese businessmen couldn’t speak English but was fluent in Afrikaans. /s
      
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      January 19, 2022 11:39am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Firm dog crap river? Possible.
      
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      January 19, 2022 11:42am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Certainly never worried us to be fair. None of our friends speak it.
    
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    January 19, 2022 9:04am
  - 7kiwi11
    
    I’m amazed that we now have reports being released by agencies using Maori titles, meaning most have no idea what the report is about.
    
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    January 19, 2022 9:07am
    - pdm
      
      7K – or what the agency is or does.
      
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      January 19, 2022 9:44am
      - Master Mariner
        
        Yes my take as well,
        Rebranding by stealth.
        
        Buggered if I know what all the car logos mean and who they represent.
        
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        January 19, 2022 10:55am
      - Jack5
        
        Here’s another one:
        
        TVNZ, on its corporate communications web page, introduces itself as Te Reo Tātaki .
        
        It says this translates to [sic] ‘the leading voice’.
        
        It would hae been worse if it had introuced itself a terewīhana aotearoa, or tīwī aotearoa.
        
        I quite like the alternative word for New Zealand,
        Niu Tīrani, or Niu Tīrene. It’s a bit like new tyranny. That seems appropriate for Ardern Land.
        
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        January 19, 2022 1:07pm
  - graham
    
    Can someone please explain why New Zealand cannot have separate Maori language media?
    
    Benedict, we actually do have separate Maori language media, to varying degrees – which makes the situation you describe above even more absurd:
    
    – We have Maori Television, which has been on-air since 2004 and reportedly attracts 1.5 million viewers each month.
    – We have Te Karere, a news and current affairs show which is broadcast on TV1 every weekday.
    – There are (apparently) 21 Maori radio programs – Waatea is one that I am aware of.
    
    These are all funded by Te Māngai Pāho (the Māori Broadcast Funding Agency), which is retained by the Government as its commitment to broadcasting rights under the Treaty of Waitangi, recognising the Maori language as a taonga or treasure that must be actively protected and supported.
    
    According to Wikipedia, the agency funds the operation of a national network of 21 iwi-run radio stations, that must each deliver eight hours of Maori language content each day.
    
    But apparently this isn’t enough, and we have the absurd situation of reporters on New Zealand’s primary news programs – where surely, the over-riding priority should be to report the important news and inform everybody of what is happening in the world, in a language that the majority of people can understand easily – dipping into a language that hardly anybody understands, confusing the life out of us.
    
    It’s pointless virtue-signalling.
    
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    January 19, 2022 9:15am
    - Local Miller
      
      On this basis: “recognising the Maori language as a taonga or treasure that must be actively protected and supported” there should actually be a ban on mixing Maori words in with the English language. Surly this is an abuse of the language and corrupts the “treasure”?
      
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      January 19, 2022 10:53am
      - Bridgenag
        
        [deleted, racist crap – Mod]
        
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        January 19, 2022 12:52pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      It’s entrapment.
      
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      January 19, 2022 11:43am
  - Cassandra
    
    And it’s not just government departments and agencies. Even one of our investment managers greets me in Maori and farewells me with Nga mihi. I should have added, former prime investment manager.
    
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    January 19, 2022 9:34am
  - tedbear
    
    You think that’s weird huh?
    NZ’s official languages are Maori and Sign.
    
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    January 19, 2022 9:35am
  - Philview
    
    The difference is that the long term plan in NZ is to phase out English. I have read discussions perhaps from the Maori Party of working towards getting educational resources in place so that a child starting school will no longer having lessons in English. This is years away from implementation but the current Government is obviously moving in that direction.
    
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    January 19, 2022 10:16am
Biscuit

Look, I know you lot are so shy that a crowbar is sometimes needed to to get an opinion out of you but here it is 8.15am and there’s not a single GD post up.

Heads should roll!
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January 19, 2022 8:15am
- pdm
  
  You are uppity this morning Biscuit!!!
  
  Did Liverpool lose overnight?
  
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  January 19, 2022 8:26am
  - Biscuit
    
    Nah, pdm…
    
    Liverpool never lose.
    
    Occasionally circumstances oocur when reports come in that they haven’t scored as many goals as their opposition but these, of course, are very few and far between and can usually be blamed on any of/all of:
    
    * P*ss poor journalism
    * Jacinda’s mob
    * Score-carrying airwaves being distorted by things like global warming and/or undersea volcanic activity
    * Prince Andrew
    * Et friggin’ cetera
    
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    January 19, 2022 8:37am
Maggie Pie

Boy…can hardly wait till this horrible pr*ck arrives back in the country 🙁
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January 19, 2022 8:16am
- Maggie Pie
  
  https://stuff.co.nz/national/crime/127519405/501-deportee-forced-to-leave-children-in-australia-after-attacking-three-men
  
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  January 19, 2022 8:21am
  - Biscuit
    
    Too much Aussie Open watching, Maggie, made you forget the link?
    
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    January 19, 2022 8:22am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      What about Kyrgios!! Up against that horrible Medvedev tomorrow. Hope Nick doesn’t lose his sh*t 😀
      
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      January 19, 2022 8:45am
      - Clownworld
        
        Hopefully against all odds Kyrgios wins and in his win states how much better it would be if he played the current best healthiest no.1 to win the cup.
        
        P.s. not watching the woke tennis now.
        
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        January 19, 2022 9:17am
  - nathie
    
    From reading the story the idiot would be better to be sent back to his place of birth (and presumably wider family), Samoa, as the article states he was only in NZ for 2 years as a teenager.
    
    Do NZ officials (and their Samoan counterparts) have the power or processes in place to do so?
    
    If not how about the govt (with their majority) enable that? Not for NZ to “wash its hands” of him, but to ensure he is in a familiar, stable environment.
    
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    January 19, 2022 8:43am
    - Jack5
      
      The deportee is an NZ citizen, so we’re stuck with him.
      
      If he commits a serious crime in NZ, he won’t be deported with citizenship revoked.
      
      Our Immigration Protection Tribunal is Woke and ultra-liberal. It offers protection to gatecrashers and wrongdoers rather than to NZ’s citizens.
      
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      January 19, 2022 12:41pm
  - Surely Knott
    
    Why does he get name suppression “to protect his children”: is that a court ruling or just a media and their funders decision. Because his children are all in Australia, so why is nz media gagged? Is protecting NZers from future harm a consideration? I don’t think an y of the 501 deportees have been named. It seems like it is more likely a blanket policy to not name 501s. The only people who get named and shamed in the media are thought criminals not violent criminals
    
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    January 19, 2022 9:04am
  - The Housekeeper
    
    If he still has Samoan citizenship he should be repatriated to Samoa asap.
    
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    January 19, 2022 10:43am
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    He lived in Samoa until 16yo, then left for Aus at 18yo, deported at 33yo….why are we being sent this POS?
    NZ is so bloody awful in every way, as far as the running of the place.
    There is nothing good in our future if the current trajectory around leadership and decision making here continues.
    
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    January 19, 2022 12:17pm
Lee C

Let’s trust the science.
In 1957 Thalidomide was introduced – available over the counter – and the public were assured it was safe. The resulting deaths, birth defects and suffering it caused was immeasurable. https://wellcomecollection.org/articles/YKtzcBQAACUA68uW
How would those who protested against the use of Thalidomide have been treated by the media, and the general public today?
Would they be scorned? Called ‘Conspiracy Theorists’? Would people suggest they be denied medical treatment. Would they smugly be deemed ‘Second Class Citizens’ by Jacinda Ardern?
Of course not. That was different.
Everyone ‘knows’ that vaccinations against ‘covid’ are ‘safe and effective’.
Because Big Pharma told us they are. So vaccinate your children now.

Oh and here’s a word from the Prime Minister of New Zealand (I think it was in late November?)
https://www.facebook.com/875740047/videos/240001234767346/
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January 19, 2022 8:18am
- Fletch
  
  I have read that since Thalidomide, that no vaccine as untested as this one has been offered to pregnant women… until now…
  
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  January 19, 2022 9:02am
  - Local Miller
    
    Never mind no vaccine and pregnant woman, no medicine of any type that is as untested as this vaccine has been offered to ANYONE… until now.
    
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    January 19, 2022 9:37am
- mawm
  
  Her diction is appalling.
  
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  January 19, 2022 11:48am
Yvette

Cabinet ministers will meet this afternoon to assess the traffic light settings across the country, most crucially, whether Northland will drop to orange. The outcome will be announced on Thursday as Labour MPs gather in New Plymouth for a new year caucus get-together.

Simplistic question – Is the outcome of this afternoon’s meeting being delayed to a Labour Caucus get-together tomorrow, to more publicise the Labour Caucus get-together.

Only slightly more complex question – Would a Master Communicator not see the obvious assumption that delaying an announcement until a Labour Caucus get-together tomorrow, seems to more publicise the Labour Caucus get-together, and that impression should be avoided, so the above simplistic question doesn’t come up.

Or, Occam’s approach again – Does the “delay” allow spin time?
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January 19, 2022 8:21am
- pdm
  
  Yvette two more question.
  
  * will St Ashley bother to attend after being given a `kick in the teeth’ yesterday re MIQ and the borders.
  * will they take any notice of him and MOH advice if he does attend?
  
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  January 19, 2022 8:44am
- Lee C
  
  I’ve noticed a survey on fb from Labour. Possibly to get a readung of the room pre-caucus.
  
  I think they would have gotten a pretty bad savavging from peoples’ remarks.
  
  And are now a bit frightened.
  
  I think, Yvette, they are realising they are shedding votes and want to make it appear that they represent a united, ‘caring and listening’ front, as they attempt to whitewash their crimes pre-election.
  
  I also think they are a bunch of [mod deleted] and so are their National ‘Get Vaccinated’ Party lapdogs.
  
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  January 19, 2022 8:47am
  - Local Miller
    
    If they are only now realising they are shedding voters, then they have been asleep at the wheel. Oh, yes they have been, haven’t they.
    I did that survey, it was FUN (caps lock intended). I hope a lot of others followed a similar pattern to me.
    
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    January 19, 2022 9:49am
    - Nickc2
      
      Toxic Tova, Toxic Cindy?
      How long before they realise He Puapua, 3 Waters, Separatist Govts, Maori Health Authority, Maori History, Corrupt Practices in MIQ, Maori Science, Maori Road Blocks, Lockdowns and MSM Bribery are equally toxic and the Country’s Broke FFS and they did it?
      
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      January 19, 2022 11:50am
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s a demonstration they are in control. By showing they can marshall their own team the message is they can manage all.
  Score to date: -1000000000000000K.
  We need an urgent replacement capable of Govt.
  
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  January 19, 2022 8:48am
- Fletch
  
  I think the entire country should just ignore it…
  
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  January 19, 2022 9:03am
- blue collar
  
  In my hometown ? I’ll grab me bullhorn n go n give em a piece of mind …. where to find the scallywags ?
  Shall I start with the flashiest hotel ?
  Or the nearest trough ?
  
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  January 19, 2022 6:40pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Enabled Labour to charge Cabinet travel to NP against parliamentary services
  
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  January 19, 2022 8:02pm
Tomtoddy

Turns out ordinary old mouthwash is a pretty smart way to stop the dreaded Covid lurgi. Early work showed promise but seems like no one has followed up – just too easy a solution and no money in it for big Pharma.

But did our useless Govt and Ministry of Health tell you a gargle of Listerene is a helpful protection?? It wouldnt fit the fearporn playbook.
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January 19, 2022 8:22am
- Nickc2
  
  Thanks, that makes me bullet-proof then?
  
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  January 19, 2022 8:41am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  povidone iodine (betadine) gargle is even better. And budesonide (symbicort) if you can get it as an asthmatic
  saline nasal flushing a few times a day is also apparently pretty effective.
  https://c19early.com/
  
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  January 19, 2022 8:49am
  - Inandout
    
    UN, years ago my doctor said that Betadine was the only germ killer he knew of that was totally effective. He said in some popular disinfectants bacteria actually thrived, so ineffective were they.
    
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    January 19, 2022 9:56am
  - bronny1
    
    I did this with nasal spray and mouth gargle at the weekend when I had omicron (either that or a sore throat with sneezing). All over within two days of sore throat starting. Which is pretty good even if it was a cold. Oh and I took large doses of vit D.
    
    The spray/ gargle with beta dune is part of mccullloughs protocol. He said in an interview that had we known this two years ago if would have basically stopped the virus.
    
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    January 19, 2022 11:42am
  - Bridgenag
    
    Yeah dissolved salt in dish will do it for most things
    
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    January 19, 2022 12:57pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    What a lot of BS.
    
    Good friend of mine with fragments of left over Virus, after a Covid infection.
    Wanted to travel.
    PCR test passed and certified by Doctor, he hopped on the plane to arrive for an on arrival test.
    Before said test he gargles, and “”inhaled”” saline solution. ETc ETc
    
    PCR test still detected the Virus and he was shipped of to Quarantine.
    
    Remember the Virus and Covid are two seperate things.
    
    Hence getting the Virus does not automatically mean you have Covid.
    
    Ergo the latest infections in community (DJ, AIRNZ, MIQ worker) tested positive but ferk all community transmission
    
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    January 19, 2022 2:43pm
- artemisia
  
  Interesting, as assume that relates to bacteria not virus. Might also be relevant to the Dunedin created and now globally available probiotics for mouth and throat (and gut) – BLIS company. They work by crowding out with good bacteria. Then there is Buccaline for bacterial complications of colds and similar. Been around for decades.
  
  Might not be effective, who knows, but cheap options and obviously other potential benefits.
  
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  January 19, 2022 8:51am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    You may be interested in this article .K12 ie a bacterial strain that is used in Blis as the probiotic, it was shown to prevent upper respiratory infection, including from Covid-19, in this study of front line health workers in Wuhan at the beginning of the pandemic. When purchasing Blis throat guard from my local chemist the pharmacist told me that they had been advised to take Blis throat guard since the beginning of the pandemic . https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fbioe.2021.646184/full Its made in Dunedinso stock up.
    
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    January 19, 2022 4:58pm
    - artemisia
      
      Thanks for that reference. Very interesting. Some groundbreaking work from Otago Uni with product range expanding well beyond oral cavity and throat probiotics and now available globally. A quiet success story, company finally in profit.
      
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      January 19, 2022 6:08pm
- MCōs
  
  Listerine is a Johnson & Johnson product.
  You know, big pharma.
  If there’s any chance it’s a wonder drug in the fight against covid-19 (& there’s money to be made) those people would be right onto it.
  So would Dan Carter.
  
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  January 19, 2022 8:54am
  - westernScientest
    
    I bet J and J make more out of Listerine than their vax as well, expectantly if people are using it a few times a day. There were some studies done early on on the original strain, and I cant be bothered digging them out, which showed in vetro that you needed quite high levels of alcohol to stop replication in the sars-cov-2, as in 60+% although I dont remember the exact number. Listerine has ~20%. Great for bacteria and fungi.
    
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    January 19, 2022 9:33am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Another home remedy for quickly dealing with mouth and air passages is orange oil.
  Cheap and effective. Take some of the skin from an orange, chew and swallow.
  The Chinese used it as a medicinal 3,000 years ago.
  
  It is strongly antiseptic and has a bonus of elevating mood as well. It helps clear all the upper respiratory passages. I believe it has prevented flu like symptoms developing in me as the back of throat area is effectively treated.
  
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  January 19, 2022 8:56am
  - MCōs
    
    When I was a kid. Also about 3000yrs ago. My father gave me a teaspoon of ‘medicinal’ brandy to fix a tummy ache.
    Flu medication used to contain heroin. Opium fixed toothache.
    
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    January 19, 2022 9:40am
- Fletch
  
  I believe the mouthwash you use must contain chlorhexidine, povidone-iodine, or cetylpyridinium chloride to be effective.
  
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  January 19, 2022 9:09am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    None of those are superior to many of the natural essential oils. One which I use in my preparations was described by the Prophet Mohamed as “cures everything except death”. It is still actively in use world wide daily. It is a known antiviral too and contains…quinones among other compounds.
    The seeds were found in King Tuts tomb.
    
    Another which can be readily ingested is Seabuckthorn fruit oil. Chock full of antioxidants.
    Munted Greek warhorses ate the berries and were revived as new. Pleasnt to take and a great skin repair tool.
    
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    January 19, 2022 11:55am
- 2ic
  
  This study showed Betadine mouthwash and Listerine Cool Mint (used as a mouthwash) to be very effect at killing the virus:
  https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/222/8/1289/5878067
  Not suggesting it’s a cure for Covid, but perhaps it could reduce the viral load in your throat and reduce the chance of it getting to your lungs?
  
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  January 19, 2022 9:45am
- Mickey
  
  Diluted iodine in water being used as a gargle and a spray up the nose works even better!
  
  Daily morning and evening routine in our family.
  
  Stock up on Betadine! Grab a whole box!
  
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  January 19, 2022 9:51am
Rusty

I cant get over a question asked on the Chase show last night :

“Which world leader once worked at Tony Blair’s office?”

Yes the answer was our own Jacinda Ardern!

A world leader- what?

Better question:

Who did Jacinda Ardern learn her progressive/socialist politics from?
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January 19, 2022 8:29am
- exkiwi
  
  I’m not a fan of Tony Blair, but let’s be reasonable, it is a bit of a stretch to call him a socialist. Seems like Jacinda’s brand of prog-soc is homegrown Kiwi. Micky Savage, John A. Lee and all that. If anything, Jaxx is probably a bit embarrassed of the neoliberal ‘Blair Years’.
  
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  January 19, 2022 8:43am
  - Clownworld
    
    Blair is a war criminal. WOMD Iraq and supporting Cigar Clinton bombing Belgrade in both cases for dubious spurious propagandised reasons. Supporting WEF , resets etc. Oh and a socialist.
    
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    January 19, 2022 9:23am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    I note that exkiwi, like many other people refer to Mr M.J. Savage as Mickey Savage. My reading of NZ history circa 1933-40 shows that his colleagues, such as Jack Lee, always called him Joe.
    But language changes. I have never ever read of any of George Forbes’ colleagues referring to the Labour leader as a big Joe Hunt.
    
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    January 19, 2022 9:53am
  - Jack5
    
    How did you get John A. Lee into that list?
    
    Labour expelled Lee from the party for his relentless attacks on Savage.
    
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    January 19, 2022 9:59am
- MCōs
  
  The answer certainly wouldn’t be Tony Blair.
  He might have considered himself a progressive, but he certainly wasn’t a socialist.
  
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  January 19, 2022 9:03am
Nickc2

Labour Heavy writes an Opinion Piece to help his mates by taking some heat off the Fisherman.
If what Richard Prebble has written has an iota of truth to it, it sounds like the Fisherman had inside information.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/richard-prebble-what-clarke-gayford-got-right-over-covid-test-call/HRUSIUGWKYJH2JJAQZSMPUOYME/
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January 19, 2022 8:30am
- Tomtoddy
  
  A lot of Prebble’s commentary is tongue in cheek. Damned with faint praise.
  
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  January 19, 2022 8:45am
  - Nickc2
    
    Agree, I’ve listened to him on many occasions and he doesn’t lack IQ.
    I’m not surprised he grew tired of low IQ colleagues in the upper levels of the Labour Party and joined the ACT Party.
    
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    January 19, 2022 8:55am
  - kowtow
    
    That’s how I see it , either that or he’s lost his marbles.
    
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    January 19, 2022 9:04am
- pdm
  
  Prebble is hardly a Labour heavyweight.
  
  He is right to the fore with ACT and a staunch Sir Roger Douglas heavyweight.
  
  A good man who saw the light and moved well away from Labour.
  
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  January 19, 2022 9:02am
  - Nickc2
    
    Yes, perhaps I should have written ‘Once was Labour Heavy …..’ There, does that make it clearer?
    
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    January 19, 2022 9:10am
  - Clownworld
    
    Prebble was never good. He holds various views some on left , some on right. He was an obnoxious orator and came across as spiteful and bitter. On other hand sometimes bang on the money and witty.
    
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    January 19, 2022 9:25am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Prebble was always cast in the role of a bovver boy for Labour, throwing out insults liberally. I can remember him being depicted in a cartoon back in the 1970’s as a snarling, sharp-toothed bulldog, with a studded collar.
      
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      January 19, 2022 5:08pm
Benedict Yu

I have a colleague with a six year old daughter. She told me yesterday on Zoom she was ‘so relieved’ to have her vaccinated.

I turned my computer off for the day and poured a wine 🙁
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January 19, 2022 8:32am
- Clownworld
  
  Perhaps her relief will turn to joy in decades later as her child lives a great life as she was saved from a cold. On other hand perhaps her relief is a little misguided and she should hope no adverse reactions in near future and no unecessary long terms problems in years to come.
  
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  January 19, 2022 9:28am
  - bronny1
    
    Those future problems, maybe infertility, won’t be due to the vax though!
    
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    January 19, 2022 11:48am
- Mickey
  
  Brainwashed by ignorant parents!
  
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  January 19, 2022 9:52am
- mawm
  
  It is so unbearably sad what is being done to children by what are essentially evil adults – although they will never think that of themselves as it is all “for the common good”. The data on child mortality from covid vs that from the vaccine is known and to me it is incomprehensible that FDA, Fauci and Ardern (and all the other WEF young leaders) persist.
  
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  January 19, 2022 12:19pm
Yvette

“Traffic light system – as “not fit for purpose” with Omicron
■ Two of New Zealand’s most prominent Covid-19 experts have warned that the country is unprepared to prevent the health system from being overloaded by an Omicron outbreak, with likely fatal consequences. Otago University’s Dr Nick Wilson and Dr Michael Baker also said it was only a “matter of weeks” [from January 10] before the highly transmissible variant seeped into the community due to border failures.

… Wilson panned the country’s traffic light system – which replaced the more stringent alert-level system last year – as “not fit for purpose” with Omicron due to its tolerance for relatively significant social interaction for vaccinated people when Covid is in the community. Baker agreed, calling for the government to rapidly reinstate an amended version of the alert level system. “The traffic light system won’t help us very much because it was never designed to dampen down transmission, it was only designed to nudge people towards vaccination,” Baker said.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/10/new-zealand-not-prepared-for-omicron-outbreak-expected-in-matter-of-weeks-experts-warn – January Monday 17

■ Traffic light system may need strengthening or adjusting in face of Omicron – Bloomfield

■ The Traffic Light System was designed to deal with surges, outbreaks and of course to pick up the impact of different variants as well, so all the work we did had that in mind.– Ardern, 1 News at 6pm, January Monday 17 transscript

Not everyone “is on the same page” here.

That was yesterday afternoon.
But, BLAM! –
Government postpones next MIQ lottery due to spike of Omicron cases at border
Everyone is again on the same page!

But what about the 3 against 1 position on fucked up Traffic Light System efficacy and its actual purpose?
– just forgotten now?
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January 19, 2022 8:34am
- mawm
  
  Lockdowns are coming and so are food shortages.
  
  Thank goodness our government has had 2 years to prepare.//s
  
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  January 19, 2022 12:23pm
Maggie Pie

Wonderful friends of ours have just returned from holidaying at Wanaka.
Cost an absolute fortune they reckon.

They decided to head down there rather than spending New Year at their Waiheke beach house. All because of that DJ who broke isolation and spent time on the Island.

As they said…”We should never forget who let the very first case of Omicron into the country. Thanks Mr & Mrs Gayford” 🙁

https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/12/29/dj-dimension-speaks-out-over-abusive-messages-on-social-media/
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January 19, 2022 8:40am
- MCōs
  
  So you’re not one of the ‘let it rip’ mob?
  
  Waiheke Island would be as good a place as any to start the ball rolling, I’d have thought.
  
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  January 19, 2022 9:14am
- lifesgood
  
  How utterly pathetic of them. We have just had a fabulous holiday on Waiheke. Sat cheek by jowl at Charley Farley’s and the new brewery, Heke, many times. Also went to assorted wineries. Been back 12 days, no symptoms amongst a whole crowd of us.
  
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  January 19, 2022 2:38pm
kowtow

Whoreald cartoon .

Gandhi lecturing our Brian in a cell about conscience.

yeah right.

Gandhi was a racist who slept naked in bed with underage girls ,denied his dying wife penicillin but himself took quinine for malaria .

Likewise the great spirit didn’t give a fig for the untouchables .

Some hero.
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January 19, 2022 8:44am
- Clownworld
  
  Yes the same Ghandi who also used to drink his own urine for health or religious reasons. Was sainted by hollywood, another reason to distrust the public narrative of him.
  
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  January 19, 2022 9:31am
In Vino Veritas

The Biden Administration via Anthony “I had no idea the Taliban were advancing so fast” Blinken, have begged Russia to de-escalate along the Ukraine border. Russia has been told, according to Jen Psaki, that there will be “severe consequences” should they attack Ukraine. Yes, I can just imagine. Decrepit, dimwitted Joe will bang his fist on the table shout “there will be serious consequences, SERIOUS I say” at them, waggle his finger at them and let them know a wet bus ticket is heading their way to spank them. Putin will shaking in is boots and will withdraw with immediate effect.
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January 19, 2022 8:51am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Would never happen under Trump. He says even if you don’t like someone you can show respect and gain respect. Same with Kin Jong Un.
  Putin is not the mean baddie that the US media make him out to be.
  #Trump2024
  
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  January 19, 2022 2:29pm
- cmm
  
  It’s not so much that the Taliban advanced so fast as the fact that the Afghan Army crumbled so fast.
  
  All the front-line people dealing with the Afghans on a daily basis (lower level officers/NCOs) were saying that the Afghans were weak and not committed and would all flee as soon as the Americans left. They were reporting that they were slack, high most of the time (if they were even turning up) and completely unreliable.
  
  But the brass would not listen to them because it didn’t fit with what Uncle Joe wanted to hear.
  
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  January 19, 2022 3:27pm
Yvette

CAKE FACE1’s link yesterday morning –
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/21/jacinda-ardern-i-try-to-turn-self-doubt-into-something-more-positive
– Jacinda Ardern interviewed (or prompted) by John Kirwin, mental wellbeing illuminant, for those with the intestinal fortitude to watch the whole item, about half an hour, was very interesting as a background to some of Ardern’s beliefs and attitudes.

I was a little disappointed, though, that Kirwin at no point, especially later in the item, asked Ardern – Since you have a lot of the terminology pat, and identify some of the mental wellbeing background buzz words before I have, and your mention of getting through a thousand pages in a weekend, just how many “self-help” genre books have you read?
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January 19, 2022 8:52am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I got as far as JK saying ‘amazing leader’
  Puff item for the sheep
  
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  January 19, 2022 2:32pm
Maggie's partner

There’s a persistent rumour doing the rounds, and it’s reached me from both sides of the fence – that our dear leader is about to announce she is stepping down – in the 1st week of Feb.
I know it’s that time of year and all that, but it does seem to be quite the noise.
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January 19, 2022 8:56am
- MCōs
  
  I’m sure if you know about it it must be true.
  
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  January 19, 2022 9:17am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Really? What is she going to do for the next 30 years?
  
  19 1
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  January 19, 2022 9:23am
  - Nickc2
    
    Terrorize us from the UN?
    
    11 1
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    January 19, 2022 9:32am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Exactly
      
      4 1
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      January 19, 2022 2:33pm
  - Clownworld
    
    She may not have 30yrs, could be much more or less.
    
    I do hear that Dan and her are candidates to rule Zone 7 aka Oceania in the 2030 “agenda” blueprint for dividing world into regions. That could keep her busu, she already is the matriarch of Pasfika, perhaps Little South China will be the new region?
    
    Failing that she could open a fush n chup shop? Or dj?
    
    Her talents are endless
    
    13 1
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    January 19, 2022 9:36am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Best go with a ‘TrafficLight” blueprint – just so the kiddies can understand
      
      3 1
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      January 19, 2022 2:35pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    That is my concern…
    
    But I gather there are $$$$ to be made sitting on multiple Government advisory boards and CRI directorships.
    
    A couple of deals must have been done..
    
    15 2
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    January 19, 2022 9:36am
  - Maggie's partner
    
    what’s she done for the last 30?
    
    15 1
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    January 19, 2022 9:38am
  - Cassandra
    
    Same as before: talk sweetly and spend other people’s money. On herself and family. Probably the UN or somesuch.
    
    14 0
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    January 19, 2022 9:39am
    - mawm
      
      I hear the top UN salaries are very good. They come with no tax payable and huge expense allowances for 5* hotels, First Class air travel, chauffeur and security. And schooling for her 2 kids.
      
      6 0
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      January 19, 2022 12:29pm
  - westernScientest
    
    Hopefully be a mother and housewife where none of us ever have to hear from her again. At least I can just not watch fishing shows.
    
    19 0
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    January 19, 2022 9:41am
  - Mickey
    
    UN, right next to aunty Helen!
    
    6 0
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    January 19, 2022 9:55am
  - cmm
    
    C’mon BY you know what she wants: #CinD4UN!
    
    We’re just an annoying stepping stone on her way to the top.
    
    7 1
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    January 19, 2022 10:17am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Not annoying enough. Come on NZ – up your game!
      
      2 1
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      January 19, 2022 2:36pm
  - Jack5
    
    Maybe she’ll be the first President of Aotearoa.
    
    5 0
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    January 19, 2022 10:58am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      If she can find where this mystical place is
      
      3 1
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      January 19, 2022 2:37pm
  - Bridgenag
    
    Fishing and babies
    
    3 0
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    January 19, 2022 1:01pm
- Yvette
  
  Maggie’s Partner
  Will the 1st week in February be just before the Omicron surge, and as when Little offered Ardern the Labour Leadership and she said No, you stick it out – drink the poisoned chalice of loosing the Election – can the can no longer be kicked down the road, and is another chalice to be avoided.
  
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  January 19, 2022 9:56am
- bronny1
  
  Please let it be so!
  
  13 1
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  January 19, 2022 11:49am
  - chukar
    
    Frying pan into the fire?
    Ex PM could anoint Mahuta!
    
    5 0
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    January 19, 2022 1:09pm
    - bronny1
      
      [Deleted – personal abuse is unwelcome here, consider this a warning not to repeat. mod.]
      
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      January 19, 2022 6:22pm
- Happy1
  
  She will step aside while the capital gains tax goes through and then resume the prime mininistership.
  
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  January 19, 2022 3:26pm
KevO'Brien

More shots to come? Status report:
https://noqreport.com/2022/01/18/pfizer-to-roll-out-omi-con-shot-in-march-here-is-dr-joseph-mercolas-covid-treatment-protocol/

Will a jab station be set up at each road junction to further this plandemic project?
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January 19, 2022 8:59am
- Fletch
  
  The people in charge MUST surely know that getting Omicron itself is akin to Nature’s vaccine – it’s probably the best thing that can happen. Yet they are formulating a vaccine against it? Pure madness, or greed.
  
  20 1
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  January 19, 2022 9:12am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The pink terror would disagree
    
    4 1
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    January 19, 2022 2:39pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  My email “sorter” is a good AI. Knew to put my “booster eligibility” advisory from MOH straight to Junk folder without any special settings from me. :):)
  
  16 0
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  January 19, 2022 10:00am
  - Dougal10
    
    I got a booster notice even though I am not vaccinated so my best guess it was labour party spam (devoid of facts).
    
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    January 19, 2022 11:04am
Diogenes

I’m wondering whether our Dear Leader has painted herself into a bit of a corner.
As far as I can ascertain, there has been no clear indication from her (or anyone else) about what conditions may or may not change Traffic Light levels regarding the various viruses.
Now, at some time in the indeterminate near future, she is reportedly going to have a wedding. (Incidentally, does anybody know the date of the proposed nuptials? I can’t find one anywhere.) If she puts any part of the country back into a higher level of lockdown, does she a) carefully exclude the venue of the wedding, or b) if not, does she scale back/cancel her plans? Seeing she put the event off once before, I can’t see any cancellation on the cards. Or, alternatively, does she go ahead with the wedding and then announce new lockdowns the day after?
It seems to me that she is going to p… someone off badly whichever way she jumps — sorry, gravely upset them. She can, of course, increase covid restrictions and reduce the scale of the wedding (for the Good Of The Country). But that would diminish the Big Splash, give the media less to drool over, and cause some event planner a lot of money. But waiting until after the wedding to announce new restrictions will really get up the backs of a lot of people — maybe even some of the adulating crowd.
Of course, she (or her nominated lackey) could simply mouth the usual platitudes about how the government is closely monitoring the situation and we must keep following the traffic light rules, with no mention of when the renewed shutdown of MIQ will reopen, or anything else of substance. Doesn’t get her out of the corner, though.
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January 19, 2022 9:10am
- cmm
  
  She has painter herself into a logical corner.
  
  It doesn’t really matter though – she operates in the feelz dimension, logic doesn’t matter.
  
  28 1
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  January 19, 2022 9:22am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Wedding date:
  
  let’s use some logic here…
  
  Auckland Ann Date – Sat Jan 29th … transferred to Mon 31st Jan.
  
  So a long weekend.
  
  Now if I was having a lovely outdoor wedding in the Gizzy region, I would not risk going into February when grass starts drying off, flowers are starting to go to seed….
  
  (And if Delta & Omicron hadn’t turned up… all the Labour guests would have had time to travel up to
  Waitangi for the following weekend).
  
  26 1
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  January 19, 2022 9:45am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Waiting game for the paint to dry.
  Obfuscating and filibustering?
  Untouchable – cunning as a shithouse rat (term I use quite often and looking truer by the day)
  
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  January 19, 2022 2:44pm
Cinematic

Humans have survived the odd pandemic over the years. All without Pfizer. How was this possible?
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January 19, 2022 9:11am
- Ian Boag
  
  Easy. You just had to be relaxed about having lots of people die ….
  
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  January 19, 2022 9:25am
  - Lee C
    
    Yup, this too ian:https://www.facebook.com/100001710887919/videos/1522665464779642
    
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    January 19, 2022 9:56am
  - cmm
    
    Everyone seems pretty relaxed about the elephant in the room: obesity.
    
    We even have university courses teaching people how awesome extreme obesity is.
    
    18 1
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    January 19, 2022 11:16am
    - Bridgenag
      
      YES I had to take a bloke from bowls into the awful medical centre and watched the “booster rush” 90% in my 1/2 wait were obese…..IMO. Sad people with no help from doctors who should have got them sorted.
      
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      January 19, 2022 1:06pm
  - Cinematic
    
    But Ian, everyone dies.
    
    7 2
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    January 19, 2022 11:20am
    - Ian Boag
      
      In an orderly and relatively predictable fashion. We can survive the odd million carking it (think Black Death) but it’s a bit hard to be philosophical about it if it is here and now …..
      
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      January 19, 2022 1:33pm
- Clownworld
  
  Resilience. Risk and opportunity. Living not living in fear.
  
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  January 19, 2022 9:39am
- Mickey
  
  Easy, there was no KFC and Maccas around then!
  
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  January 19, 2022 9:57am
DeepBlue

One third of MIQ border workers who were vaccinated before 31 July 2021 have not been boosted yet (they have until the end of January).

Omicron should be oozing out of MIQ.
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January 19, 2022 9:15am
Tomtoddy

Absolutely essential reading.

https://www.michaelcrichton.com/why-politicized-science-is-dangerous/

No one has put it better, more vividly or in a more telling way.
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January 19, 2022 9:16am
Surely Knott

Unfair fight.
Damien Venuuto reports in the Herald: “Covid 19: The sad spiral of Liz Gunn down the conspiracy rabbit hole – Damien Venuto” the caption reads “Former TV newsreader Liz Gunn is using her social channels to spread her views”.

So Damien Venuuto gets to attack the personal reputation of his former colleagues reputation for spreading views on her personal social media channels. Should people who are attacked by the media personally like this at least be given equal free column inches to respond? Because currently it is a fight where one person has a government funded military issue megaphone and one person has to diy with a tin can and some string
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January 19, 2022 9:18am
- graham
  
  Yes, I saw the headline – it is premium so I am spared the temptation of even looking at it.
  
  “The sad spiral of Liz Gunn down the conspiracy rabbit hole” … nice to see the Herald sticking to neutral, unbiased reporting (/sarc). Unfortunately this doesn’t surprise me; the Herald seems to be frequently adding emotive descriptors to their headlines and stories, designed to influence the reader’s feelings – which I would have thought should be limited to opinion pieces only.
  
  So much for neutral, unbiased, factual reporting …
  
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  January 19, 2022 10:36am
- Fletch
  
  And I see the Herald has now closed comments under the story on Facebook. Getting too many comments critical of the writer? It looks like it. And under every critical comment, they have posted their own story about how the collapse of the 5 kids wasn’t true. They must have posted the link over a dozen times. And it’s only based on the say-so of the MOH, despite many who were there seeing what actually happened.
  
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  January 19, 2022 10:40am
- Jack5
  
  Don’t know why the Herald wheeled out a business reporter to do its hit job on Liz Gunn.
  
  The Gunns are a rebellious bunch. Liz’s father Max Gunn, was a champion of Mum and Dad shareholders against shaky company boards back in the day.
  
  We need rebels, and we need people who question authority.
  
  I’m on the opposite side to Liz Gunn on vaccinations and Covid, but she deserves better than given her by the Herald. For example, this seems condescending:
  
  “… the Gunn case should also provoke a sense of sadness in those who spent years watching her on-screen. There’s something deeply disappointing about those moments when once prominent people fall from grace so dramatically.”
  
  It may be wrong, but is it disgraceful to oppose Covid vaccinations? A “dramatic fall from grace”. C’mon, that’s as bad as quoting an essay from Simon Wilson.
  
  The Herald reporter compares Liz Gunn with these:
  
  – Eric Clapton, who has been active in anti-vax conspiracy stuff. Clapton is occasionally still attacked for an alleged racist rant made nearly half a century ago.
  
  – Pete Evans, Australian TV chef, who has been sanctioned for promoting a “healing lamp” that, it was claimed, could treat Covid.
  
  – Lance Armstrong, stripped of his Tour de France titles, for using drugs. Presumably Armstrong’s an anti-vaxxer.
  
  The anti-vax mob, and some of the rest of us, will suspect this is the Herald toeing the Ardern line – the Ardern subsidy line.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/covid-19-the-sad-spiral-of-liz-gunn-down-the-conspiracy-rabbit-hole-damien-venuto/FUVTMKX4VRIYQACV6GUTLQTXBI/
  
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  January 19, 2022 11:39am
  - graham
    
    A “dramatic fall from grace”.
    
    All in the eye of the beholder, and how you spin it. For example, I might choose to write that the Lucy Lawless case should also provoke a sense of sadness in those who spent years watching her on-screen. There’s something deeply disappointing about those moments when once prominent people fall from grace so dramatically. I am referring, of course, to her arrest and subsequent burglary charge (which carried an imprisonment term of up to 10 years if convicted), where she eventually pleaded guilty to trespass charges.
    
    This, of course, is talking about Ms Lawless’ illegal boarding of an oil drilling ship at Port Taranaki. Now, some people might approve of her actions, but I could just as easily couch the incident in disapproving terms, as above.
    
    I do wish the Herald would go back to behaving like a grown-up newspaper, not a tabloid, and encourage neutral, unbiased, factual reporting, allowing their readers to make up their own minds.
    
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    January 19, 2022 12:25pm
Nukuleka

If anyone has any doubts about the real reasons the US Democrats are pushing to reform voting rights look no further than the latest move in New York where it will now be legal for anyone who has lived in the city for a mere 30 days to vote in local elections. It is expected that this will add 800,000 new voters to the roll. Now I wonder which party the bulk of these lucky new voters will support.
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January 19, 2022 9:18am
- Pavel
  
  So you can vote in New York without id, and theoretically go from voting station to voting station voting all day long, but have to show your Vax pass to go to a restaurant. Makes sense.
  
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  January 19, 2022 12:32pm
  - Batman
    
    When those votes are counted and verified via the scanners, you’d be caught voting multiple times, just FYI
    
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    January 19, 2022 1:06pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Yer right Batman.
      Dominion voting machines ring a bell?
      
      7 1
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      January 19, 2022 2:54pm
Yvette

Hand gestures that are larger than the outlines of your body: Communicates a large idea or concept. But if all your hand gestures are large you will communicate that you are chaotic or out of control – Susan Weinschenk Ph.D.

This perhaps means that in what you are saying, you shouldn’t move your hands about and exaggerate your facial expressions more than any sign-language person who may be trying to pass on what you are saying.
Unkind? That may depend on who you look at.
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January 19, 2022 9:24am
- cmm
  
  Yup, Italy is chaotic.
  
  But this suggests that fat people can gesticulate more than skinnies!
  
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  January 19, 2022 11:18am
Zero Kindness

“Cabinet meeting to assess Covid-19 traffic light settings…”
Bloomfield 18 Jan 2022: “the [traffic light] system, based on vaccination certificates, is less suited to Omicron.” ”
also: “it was key to remember that the traffic light system is based on the role of vaccination and the use of vaccination certificates to restrict people’s ability to gather. It’s quite clear that Omicron does escape vaccinations.”
So, clearly Bloomfield wants to cease the segregation policy as it can no longer be sold as a health policy with Omicron.
Jacinda on the other hand will be very unlikely to let go of her ability to penalise, squeeze, coerce and attack her number one scapegoat group.
Given the MIQ postponement the traffic light system announcement today will [may] answer two critical questions:
1. Will we continue to segregate the unvaccinated from society for political (not health) reasons?
2. Is the Labour Government going to revert (or continue) pursuing a Zero Covid policy?
If the segregation and therefore vaccine passports are to be ceased as per Bloomfield’s advice, how will all the doctors, nurses, teachers, public servants who have lost their jobs be compensated?
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January 19, 2022 9:36am
- Surely Knott
  
  If Bloomfield is ditching the traffic light system and ceasing segregation
  
  Then option A, they treat the unvaxxed like everyone else and remove passports and return to normal
  
  or option B. they treat the vaxxed like the unvaxxed . The traffic light (which means no lockdowns) doesn’t work so they go back to levels and lockdowns. Then the booster will be announced as slowing omicron. And well ……you know how it goes from there.
  
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  January 19, 2022 10:34am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yup. Auckland level 4 just after the wedding.
    I have said that Jaspinda hates Auckland, but in reality she just hates capitalism – you know, people working, making money, and having fun.
    We must ALL be equally miserable under socialism, and the rich will pay for it.
    Rant over, otherwise a ban if I get angry
    
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    January 19, 2022 3:01pm
- Dougal10
  
  Bloomfield needs to get rid of the vax passes as they have a may expiry date but he needs to get his boosters going so something needs to give . The other part is how do ministry deal with vax passes for 5 year olds .
  
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  January 19, 2022 11:11am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Does conflict between the Chief Medical Officer in NZ and the Executive cut through their self believed right to order such bodily procedures and meds as they desire contrary to international law.
  
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  January 19, 2022 12:06pm
Maggie Pie

Will this mean the end of booster-shots ?

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1483530907491385344
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January 19, 2022 9:37am
- Lee C
  
  Wow, so they’ve managed to clone Ivermectin, and suddnely it’s safe to use.
  
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  January 19, 2022 9:55am
Cassandra

Maggie’s: I don’t believe it. Hope so but I just can’t see it. At least another year.
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January 19, 2022 9:41am
Lee C

Caution: Contains informed criticism: https://www.facebook.com/100001710887919/videos/1522665464779642
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January 19, 2022 9:55am
MCōs

Anders Breivik hardly did himself any favours if he wants to get out of prison.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2022/01/norwegian-mass-murderer-anders-breivik-begins-parole-hearing-with-nazi-salute.html
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January 19, 2022 9:56am
artemisia

Any word yet when Sean Plunket’s new site theplatform.kiwi will be up and running?
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January 19, 2022 10:04am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING

Next week is ‘Diarrhea Awareness Week’.

Runs until Friday.

😀 😀 😀
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January 19, 2022 10:11am
- oldfella
  
  Maggie, should have played one of the Ashes tests during that week. English cricket currently needs all the runs it can get.
  
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  January 19, 2022 10:41am
- K
  
  Looks like Victoria declared a code brown a week early.
  
  https://amp.sbs.com.au/eds/news/article/victoria-has-declared-a-code-brown-covid-emergency-here-s-what-that-means/94c78e38-daf0-46f7-b13f-475ca14d1641?amp=1
  
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  January 19, 2022 12:20pm
Lee C

General debate: What if someone in a positon of authourity demand you do something even though you knew it was wrong?
https://youtu.be/fXjvCcYpSY0
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January 19, 2022 10:15am
- Lee C
  
  Heh! You’d down-tick it.
  
  What a moron.
  
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  January 19, 2022 10:34am
  - mawm
    
    [Holocaust comparisons will receive a suspension. One week holiday – Mod]
    
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    January 19, 2022 12:56pm
Surely Knott

Communist countries always have locked borders.
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January 19, 2022 10:26am
emmess

What?????

UK Covid deaths of Covid only just over a tenth of the number reported

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNVmj-FLf-s

Key point at 3 mins
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January 19, 2022 10:33am
curry4me

https://www.bitchute.com/video/WYBIZ7E8Eq4/

Some Problems for Big Tech.

Leftoids will go wherever the edgy kids go, and then try to trouble them because they love perpetual outrage. [14:42]
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January 19, 2022 11:07am
curry4me

https://www.bitchute.com/video/O7VyaMye8Zw/

More Woke SJW Fails.

Get woke, go broke. Everything woke turns to s***. [8:19]
6 1
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January 19, 2022 11:07am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPEy59_hHWw

The Taliban Is Failing in Afghanistan.

The situation in Afghanistan is deteriorating rapidly and the Taliban is pretty much failing at being a government. In this episode of America Uncovered, we talk about what the UN and US are doing about it, how the Taliban are paying their workers, and predictions for Afghanistan’s future. [10:56]
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January 19, 2022 11:08am
Maggy Wassilieff

Why are we waiting?

Well I’ve never seen a set of traffic lights in my life where it is impossible for them to turn Green or else I would still be gormlessly waiting at that very intersection.

https://asianinvasion2019.blogspot.com/2022/01/the-new-selfish-mummy-covid-doomists.html
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January 19, 2022 11:32am
- alloytoo
  
  people stuck at red lights eventually lose patience
  
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  January 19, 2022 6:15pm
Surely Knott

Nice work Jetstar who now allow those without a v. passport to fly domestically and also to our local escape room who allow the unpassported. But we can’t sit outside at a cafe, or go to our local mountain bike park because of the government mandates. Trying to follow the science. Maybe I’m missing something.
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January 19, 2022 11:42am
- kowtow
  
  As has been said ;
  
  there is no science .
  
  It is all theatre .
  
  A theatre of fear , absurdity and now bordering on insanity.
  
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  January 19, 2022 12:12pm
KevO'Brien

But wait.. there is a fast remedy. (Got this from the WHO and it is in active use at home.)
1/4 tsp salt
3 teaspoons sugar
Water 500ml.
Exact measurements not critical. Take 1 glass immediately and another for each bout. Three is usually sufficient. Works in 1-2 hours. Gets you to work.
Cold water makes it more palatable. A little flavouring is possible.
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January 19, 2022 12:14pm
- lifesgood
  
  Bout of what exactly?
  
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  January 19, 2022 2:28pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The reference was to diarrhoea.
    
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    January 19, 2022 4:21pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Grounded kiwis being ground down?

Yesterday in an urgent teleconference, the Crown made an application to adjourn the High Court hearing scheduled next week, seeking more time to respond to evidence filed in December.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/459807/miq-system-high-court-challenge-delayed
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January 19, 2022 12:20pm
- Cinematic
  
  That is a very generous adjournment given the plight of these kiwis.
  
  Hipkins dribble at the end about closing the border is beyond pathetic. This rabble of a government and it’s extremist health advisors have snookered our country. Vaccinating children with an out of date vaccine won’t make the slightest difference to Omicron which they know.
  
  The pandemic is over for the bulk of the world. Not here in NZ due the complete abandonment of science in pursuit of some sort of socialist no-one must die utopia. Criminal level negligence in my view.
  
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  January 19, 2022 12:34pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  As my partner just said…
  “Justice delayed is justice denied. Welcome to Bananaotearoa”
  
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  January 19, 2022 12:39pm
MCōs

In Australia omicron is rampant in most of the country. Some have argued that’s the way it should be here on some sort of get it over with basis.
Whether that is viable, I don’t know.
In Australia the government doesn’t fund RAT testing. Unfortunately this has led to price gouging and $A30 a pop seems to be the going rate for something that would cost the government less than ten bucks.
What will happen in NZ when the shit hits the fan anytime now?
Personally I won’t be spending $30 every time I get symptoms. If it’s not looking too good I’ll get a regular free test and stay at home.
What about schools?
Will they require their kids & staff to test every day & who pays?
Three quarters of a million kids every day soon mounts up.
If the tests are provided at no charge to public the cost to the taxpayer will go through the roof as people consume them like lollies.
6 6
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January 19, 2022 12:36pm
- RightNow
  
  I wouldn’t take a test at all, just stay home if you’re not feeling well.
  Test positive and you’ll be incarcerated.
  
  16 1
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  January 19, 2022 1:15pm
  - MCōs
    
    Incarcerated at home unless one is really crook and needs hospitalization. It happens
    
    3 6
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    January 19, 2022 1:44pm
    - Cinematic
      
      Very rarely.
      
      5 2
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      January 19, 2022 2:24pm
      - MCōs
        
        Of course is rare on an individual basis & in comparison to the number of cases, but still big numbers compared with the current situation, I would suggest.
        Check what’s happening in NSW.
        
        2 1
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        January 19, 2022 6:30pm
    - bronny1
      
      Perhaps if you are vaxxed. I’m sure they will want to punish the unvaxxed or “in sufficiently vaxxed” by locki g them up
      
      3 1
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      January 19, 2022 6:30pm
alex Masterley

The Herald reports the Big Gay Out for this year has been canned.
What do the organisers know that we dont?
18 2
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January 19, 2022 12:40pm
- skyblue
  
  St John have advised staff that Omicron is out there already. Up to 2 weeks before SHTF. I am sure the mincers have similar information.
  
  13 3
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  January 19, 2022 1:04pm
  - alloytoo
    
    Progressive and Foodstuffs have advised childcare facilities to stock up as shortages are expected.
    
    5 0
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    January 19, 2022 6:18pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Good job anyway! Remember in 2018 when ATEED blew tens-of-thousands of Ratepayers dollars sponsoring a disgusting…. ‘Fisting Event’.
  
  That was under Goff’s watch 🙁
  
  28 2
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  January 19, 2022 1:06pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Yes, that was disgusting even by ATEEDs standards. Many words were written about it, but none of them changed their minds.
    Be very careful who you vote for next Local Bodies Election.
    
    19 2
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    January 19, 2022 1:35pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Yes…absolutely revolting that the Mayor, of all people, would agree to sponsor filth like that!
      TBH, I had no idea what it was until my partner played me a few of his videos.
      
      14 3
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      January 19, 2022 2:15pm
      - Nickc2
        
        The mind boggles Maggie.
        
        8 1
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        January 19, 2022 2:19pm
Ian Boag

A thought about folk learning te reo.

As I see it, learning a new language is only useful you can keep it alive in conversation or reading. You need the practice.

FWIW on of my sons is married to a Russian – they live in Sydney and speak Russian at home. They have quite a few Russian friends who normally speak Russian socially. They have a 10-year old and a 6-year old who also both speak pretty good Russian.

When their parents are not watching, these two tend to speak to each other in English ….

My son tells me this is a standard issue in multilingual households.

Go figure.
18 3
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January 19, 2022 1:30pm
- Kiwi Dave
  
  Not difficult to figure. The parents might be genuinely bilingual, but society – children’s friends, tv, social media, the local library, school etc – not so much. Kids figure out what really matters quite easily.
  
  Looking at bilingualism in Canada recently, I noticed that 46% of mother tongue French speakers are bilingual in English, but only 9% of mother tongue English speakers are bilingual in French. Given that there are many more mother tongue English speakers in Canada, the actual absolute numbers of bilinguals are much more evenly balanced, but the payoff for minority individuals to learn the majority language is usually greater than vice versa.
  
  9 1
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  January 19, 2022 3:56pm
- Jack5
  
  A benefit of learning Russian is that it has many great films, great literature, and you can read Russian poems, which don’t all translate well.
  
  There are also thousands of Russian speakers who want to learn English, and you can team up with one or more of them for Skype help with each other’s language.
  
  4 0
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  January 19, 2022 7:13pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    A benefit of learning any language is a better appreciation of the people and culture.
    Learning which languages do you think bring the most cultural benefits for Kiwibloggers? I can’t decide between Farsi or te reo.
    
    1 5
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    January 19, 2022 7:57pm
    - Kiwi Dave
      
      On the other hand, you might discover as you become more acquainted with a culture – and this doesn’t require language knowledge, just experiences with the culture in action – that its values and practices are seriously inconsistent with your own. Better knowledge doesn’t always mean better appreciation.
      
      2 0
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      January 19, 2022 9:01pm
Fletch

Seeing unconfirmed reports from people who know ppl working for govt depts that we are moving to red tomorrow.
11 2
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January 19, 2022 2:30pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Hipkins has just said NZ is moving to a self-isolation model.

No more lock-down folks… It’s a complete lock-up.
25 1
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January 19, 2022 2:55pm
- alex Masterley
  
  We are turning into an Hermit state. The way things are going North Korea will have more contact with the outside world.
  
  15 3
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  January 19, 2022 3:38pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300498803/tova-obrien-has-no-option-but-to-bartend-if-contract-clause-enforced–lawyer
Maybe she could find a place where her mate Jacinda can sell F&C and Tova can sell beer.
14 1
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January 19, 2022 3:16pm
- David Garrett
  
  greybeard: Yes I read that. The silly bitch should have taken legal advice on the meaning and effect of the restraint of trade before she signed the employment contract. “I didn’t understand just what it meant” aint going to cut it.
  
  That said, the courts (and by extension the ERA) don’t like restraints of trade, which are prima facie void. To be effective and therefore enforceable, the employer must show they are the minimum required both as to duration and area to protect the employer’s proprietory interest.
  
  I am not an expert on this area, but a three month restraint sounds pretty reasonable to me. Given she is a TV journo, it’s either the whole of NZ or nothing. It will be interesting to see the result. I’m picking it could end up in the Employment Court if not the Court of Appeal.
  
  15 2
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  January 19, 2022 4:35pm
  - MCōs
    
    The article doesn’t say that she said
    “I didn’t understand just what it meant”
    My understanding is she thought she knew what it meant i.e. she couldn’t finish up at TV3 one day and start an identical job elsewhere with the specified time frame.
    She’s doing something on the wireless in the morning that seems to me to be nothing like her previous job. If Discovery wins the case it would appear she’ll be unemployable in any position involving talking on the radio for the duration.
    I wonder if someone is allowed to print some opinion pieces by her?
    Everyone else in that line seems to dash something off. Hosking. Heather. Kate.
    
    6 1
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    January 19, 2022 5:14pm
    - smttc
      
      The longer she is off the air the better we will all be.
      
      11 2
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      January 19, 2022 7:08pm
Maggie Pie

RANDOM IMPERTINENT QUESTION

Is the new ‘Head-of-MIQ’ a Bunny?
4 4
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January 19, 2022 3:28pm
Chuck Bird

I spoke to Chris Luxon privately before he spoke at a Super Blue meeting this morning about National’s policy on forced second vaccination of those who have a very bad reaction on vaccination on their first vaccination.

I asked him about Sue McIntyre who had a really bad reaction on her face. I told him that she had a doctor’s recommendation that she not get a second jab. I then told him, Ashley Bloomfield overrode two doctors’ recommendations.

Chris told me that we have to rely on experts and quickly walked away.

I am very disappointed. Maybe I should have asked him at question time.

Sue is on at 7:40 for those who are not familiar with the case

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/one-news-at-6pm/episodes/s2022-e15
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January 19, 2022 3:31pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s accepting experts which is leading to trouble.
  There are sufficient indicators that not all experts are what they claim to be.
  IBM got into trouble that way–experts turned out to be salespeople and the outcome always cost much more than expected.
  
  Govt need discernment to sort out the quality of advice on offer. For them to pick their advisers may be an act of blinding themselves.
  
  7 3
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  January 19, 2022 4:26pm
- MCōs
  
  A guy in his position knows if he makes any sort of pronouncement to someone he doesn’t know, without a record, he loses control of the narrative.
  We know you’re a straight up and down sort of guy, but he doesn’t know his words wouldn’t be misconstrued in the repeating & used by some fringe group as propaganda for their cause.
  
  6 1
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  January 19, 2022 4:27pm
- David Garrett
  
  Chuck: Where did you get the idea that people are going to be forced to get a second or a third shot? I don’t even this lot of control freaks have got to the point of forcing anyone yet…I hope to God I am right. Please explain.
  
  2 5
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  January 19, 2022 4:46pm
  - bronny1
    
    Forced to have it if they work in a mandated job – which I understand is >40% of the population. Plus unable to participate in much of society, doc appts in the car park, etc.
    
    9 1
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    January 19, 2022 6:35pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    David, I gave you an uptick for asking. Did you watch the video? As someone said it makes life pretty difficult especially if you have a mortgage and a job.
    
    If a person is anti-vax on stories they have read that is one thing but when someone has had a severe reaction like Sue McIntyre who you can see from the link below that is another matter.
    
    There are people who are just anti-vax who find an anti-vax doctor but Sue had severe reasons and her doctor and another doctor said she should have an exemption.
    
    It is outrageous Bloomfield overrode those doctors and would not give a reason.
    
    6 2
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    January 19, 2022 8:14pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      I might add there are two suspected deaths from the vaccine. If someone has had a bad reaction on their first jab and either dies or has long term effects after they are forced to get the second jab. Is Saint Ashley accuntable?
      
      5 1
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      January 19, 2022 8:36pm
- bronny1
  
  The experts are surely the doctors who said no!
  
  4 2
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  January 19, 2022 6:33pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Why?
    
    0 2
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    January 19, 2022 8:15pm
- Lucia Maria
  
  Thanks, Chuck.
  
  Tells me everything I need to know about Luxon.
  
  8 1
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  January 19, 2022 7:00pm
MCōs

What’s happened to Chris Liddell?
4 1
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January 19, 2022 4:15pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  You’ll need to talk to ‘SweenyVesty’ if you’re really interested Cossie.
  
  Give them a call….ask for Jane.
  
  😀
  
  4 2
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  January 19, 2022 4:44pm
Maggie Pie

STUFFED TRENDING……

‘Chis Luxon seeks to revitalise the National Party’s fortunes in his first year as leader, by developing his Te Reo skills to help him connect with Maori’.

As my partner said….”If it all turns to shit then, he could get a job as Newsreader on OneEwes”
25 2
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January 19, 2022 4:24pm
- MCōs
  
  I saw a picture of him talking to a crowd at Tauranga.
  I would suggest English would have been fine on that occasion with a few grandad jokes chucked in.
  Such as
  There was a hearse going up a hill & the door came open letting the casket slip out.
  As it slid down the road the corpse got out, racing into a pharmacy and said
  Got anything to stop my coffin?
  Or
  A parking warden died.
  As the coffin was about to be lowered into the grave there was a banging on the underside of the lid.
  Stop, please, I’m still alive.
  Too late, said the priest, I’ve already done the paperwork.
  
  8 3
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  January 19, 2022 4:46pm
  - MCōs
    
    Two Down ticks
    I count that as a win
    
    4 2
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    January 19, 2022 6:20pm
David Garrett

‘Chis Luxon seeks to revitalise the National Party’s fortunes in his first year as leader, by developing his Te Reo skills to help him connect with Maori’

Ah yes…he needs te reo “to help him to connect with Maori” because so few of our brown brethren speak English. What a crock of shit.
27 1
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January 19, 2022 4:28pm
- westernScientest
  
  How long until he works on getting the Nats a rainbow certification?
  
  14 2
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  January 19, 2022 4:31pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  Exactly David. I know quite a few Maori personally but cannot think of one who speaks Te Reo fluently.
  
  7 1
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  January 19, 2022 4:42pm
westernScientest

ACT deserve some criticism, but at least they are talking some form of sense:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300499047/covid19-chris-hipkins-talks-to-media-before-cabinet-meets-on-omicron-miq

DS: “I am advocating for an acceptance of reality that omicron will be here and our ability to delay it is far costlier than any benefits we get from doing do”
13 1
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January 19, 2022 4:30pm
Jack5

Power to the p..eo…p…le

Hypermiling, gaining the maxium “mileage” from your car’s fuel, can be agonisingly slow for electric vehicles, reports the Wall Street Journal.

” The efficiency sweet spot on an electric car can be agonizingly slow—sometimes below 30 mph,” it reports.

Hypermiling in a petrol-driven car is typically 40 to 50 mph.
6 3
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January 19, 2022 4:32pm
Maggy Wassilieff

How did this mass-Murderer get NZ Residency?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/127543225/fiji-deaths-christchurch-man-found-guilty-of-murdering-family-of-five

He had previously been deported from Australia to Fiji before he changed his surname and waltzed into NZ.

Why are our immigration folk so useless in checking out backgrounds of immigrating criminals?
21 1
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January 19, 2022 5:10pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  My grandad used to say..
  
  “People like that deserve a break. Their necks”
  
  10 2
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  January 19, 2022 5:31pm
- Jack5
  
  It’s not just border protectors who are fooled …
  
  In the last Bain trial a person was selected for the jury when a name change hid the person’s record.
  
  Wikipedia reports that, in May 2017, Bain himself changed his name by deed poll to William Davies, taking the surname of his wife.
  
  8 0
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  January 19, 2022 7:16pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    I believe he is living in the Waikato.
    
    3 1
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    January 19, 2022 8:30pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Auckland airport worker Triple vaxxed Worker tests positive..

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/01/coronavirus-latest-on-covid-19-community-outbreak-wednesday-january-19.html

Gee, I wonder if the virus is seeking out vaxxed folk
16 1
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January 19, 2022 6:08pm
Maggy Wassilieff

So double-vaxxed, negative-tested people arrive in NZ..and go into MIQ……

and then, hey presto, some days later they turn positive.

How does that happen?
16 2
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January 19, 2022 6:16pm
- Lucia Maria
  
  False positive result from the testing.
  
  7 1
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  January 19, 2022 6:58pm
- greybeard
  
  Probably a long-term fault in the testing procedure.
  
  2 0
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  January 19, 2022 8:43pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    No-one think that MIQ is contaminated….
    you know, dirty lift buttons or virus-ridden rubbish lids?
    
    6 0
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    January 19, 2022 9:21pm
BananaLlama

These are the same people crying over your pronunciation of Maori.

Did a family manage to manage to sneak their way into MIQ

https://imgur.com/TIq2CmO
3 1
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January 19, 2022 6:20pm
graham

I commented earlier that I really wish the Herald would go back to behaving like a grown-up newspaper, rather than a tabloid. Sadly it seems this is unlikely to happen.

Spotted in the World section:

Watch: ‘Death wish’ – Skater inches from death after horrifying near-miss

Dashcam shows moment skater narrowly avoided death after stacking it in oncoming traffic

After doing … what?! What on earth does “stacking it” even mean?

Is the Herald trying to appeal to da yoof by throwing in phrases like this to prove their street-cred?

I despair. Is there ANY local news site who sees their main demographic as adults who can think for themselves?
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January 19, 2022 6:36pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  [Deleted – troll. mod.]
  
  0 2
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  January 19, 2022 7:22pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Sorry for the shortened expression implying that surely graham must have other things to worry about than a newspaper using a vernacular term from skateboarding (an Olympic sport, btw).
    
    1 8
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    January 19, 2022 7:52pm
Benedict Yu

🙂

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300498473/covid19-one-in-five-miq-border-workers-yet-to-get-booster-as-omicron-looms

Oh the horror 🙂 The headline should be :

80 percent of border workers have had a booster.

I feel like I am living in a twilight world.
15 1
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January 19, 2022 7:39pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  We are living in an age where everything has to be cast as a disaster.
  Luckily, Kiwiblog remains a bastion of positive thinking.
  
  2 9
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  January 19, 2022 7:54pm
- graham
  
  Sadly, sensationalist headlines seem to be the new normal within the childish rags that would claim to be serious grown-up reporting sites.
  
  And yet, Stuff’s Code of Conduct states that “News reports should be expressed in plain, direct, unembellished language, and journalists should strive to state the facts in the clearest possible manner.”
  
  Welcome to the twilight zone, Benedict, it welcomes you …
  
  8 1
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  January 19, 2022 7:58pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  Hi BY, if one is getting a booster would you recommend AstraZeneca, Novavax or Pfizer?
  
  2 3
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  January 19, 2022 8:29pm
Fletch

Liz Gunn has officially done a response video now which is on Telegram. The main point she made was that it is a reporters job to report the news. If there is a rumour circulating that children have collapsed (which there was) then the job of a reporter is to go investigate and find out what happened. To interview people and find out what they know, what they heard. Interview ambulance staff. Go to the hospital and find out. See if it is true or not.

Not to run from the story as these so-called “reporters” at 1 News did yesterday. That’s what Liz was asking about. Only to be told by the cameraman, “oh, I’m sure the MOH will put out s statement if anything happened”. Really? And you believe the MOH to tell you the truth? That’s not the job of a reporter.

As Liz said in her video that she doesn’t so much care about the attack on her but, “what will happen to our children when some of them get injured? Tell the truth. […] Saying to a journalist, stop scurrying from the scene and go and do your god-damn job, and have some integrity and find some spine. That is what I was saying yesterday.”
1 2
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January 19, 2022 9:22pm
Fletch

It is telling that the NZ Herald has limited Facebook comments on any story to do with Covid. Says a lot.
2 1
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January 19, 2022 9:29pm

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