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January 10, 2022 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 10 January 2022

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-D

Maori Science?

International scientists continue to follow our embarrassing confusion between Science and Folklore.

Jerry Coyne is one of the world’s most respected and followed science commentators. Here’s his latest summary re New Zealand:

https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2022/01/09/whats-going-on-in-new-zealand-three-easy-pieces/
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January 10, 2022 8:02am
- Mickey
  
  Why on earth do NZers pander to this bullshit?
  
  Maori are the weakest link on this island.
  
  1) They did not have a written language when settlers arrived
  2) The had not invented steel (yet many beaches are littered with iron ore)
  3) They had not even invented the wheel when settlers arrived
  4) They were cannibals when settlers arrived.
  
  Come on people, OPEN YOUR EYES!!
  Stand up against ethno politics, it has never worked and will never work!
  
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  January 10, 2022 8:53am
  - curry4me
    
    Mickey: Yes all this ‘Maori Science’ stuff is PC garbage. However, they didn’t have wheat, so no need for an irrigation system. And no need to develop writing. And no draught, or domestic animals. So, no surprise they stayed in the stone age.
    
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    January 10, 2022 10:40am
    - Stellaboxer
      
      They didn’t have pottery or the sewing needle both much earlier technical milestones than the the wheel or written language oh and no form of projectiles in their arsenal such as bow and arrows, spears or sling shots. I’m not sure maybe they through rocks though.
      
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      January 10, 2022 12:27pm
      - Mickey
        
        Yes, they had sweet f’all!!
        
        Clubs and grass skirts!
        
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        January 10, 2022 1:25pm
      - curry4me
        
        Stellaboxer: Oh, I forgot that. Is there no suitable pottery clay here? Weren’t sewing needles made from deer bones? Bows require sinew for the string. However, slings would have been a goer. Made from fla fibre with small stoned for ammunition.
        
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        January 10, 2022 7:44pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  A great summary of the developing saga…
  
  and some good comments following the piece.
  
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  January 10, 2022 9:20am
- Souvlaki
  
  Frankly, to teach this bullshit in schools as an “equivalent” to conventional science is tantamount to child abuse. Handicapping our offspring with superstitious mumbo-jumbo in an increasingly complex world is unconscionable !
  
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  January 10, 2022 10:52am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Yeah but it will do marvels for the foreign student industry. Labour swapping what works for what feels good since 2017.
    
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    January 10, 2022 12:29pm
- Jack5
  
  From the Jerry Coyne piece:
  
  “Of the seven professors who signed The Letter, one has since died, but two (Robert Nola and Garth Cooper) were elected to New Zealand’s Royal Society, a huge honor. And those two were—and still are—subject to an investigation by the RSNZ—for exercising their freedom of speech!”
  
  A huge honour? From what has become primarily a Maori activist group that trades on a non-existent link to, and connotations from, the great and famous Royal Society.
  
  Sadly, and no disrespect to Nola and Cooper, not a huge honour.
  
  By standing up to the weird drive to designate Maori knowledge as science, Nola and Cooper themselves added to their own honour.
  
  What they and the other scientists did with their Listener article was honest, brave, honourable and in the best scientific tradition.
  
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  January 10, 2022 10:58am
  - Mike
    
    Primarily a Maori activist group?
    Oh Jack, suely you can do better than that.
    
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    January 10, 2022 12:27pm
- Than
  
  Even separating science into cultures (“Maori science” versus “Western science”) is just absurd. Science is science – any objective fact that can be empirically demonstrated is science. The body of modern “Western” science includes discoveries made by many different cultures, often multiple times independently.
  
  But even if for some reason we should separate science by culture of first discovery, supporters of the notion of “Maori science” should have a think about what that implies. It would need to be a body of knowledge that simultaneously;
  
  A) Was widely known to Maori
  B) Was either kept secret from non-Maori or was ignored by non-Maori for the last 175 years
  C) Was not discovered independently
  
  Point B in particular puts the idea of useful “Maori science” well into tin-foil hat conspiracy theory land. At the time of first contact, of course Maori would have had knowledge that Europeans didn’t, particularly about things like native plants, birds, and animals. But any of that knowledge that was born out as objectively true would have been rapidly incorporated into “Western” science. And trying to use the cliched excuse of racism (us nasty white people ignored the wise Maori and their learnings) doesn’t hold water either. Any knowledge that had practical use (even just in something as simple as helping a botanist/zoologist getting a paper published) would have been exploited. Racism could explain Maori not being given credit for the discovery, but not useful information being ignored entirely.
  
  Any real “Maori science” will have disseminated into the greater body of human science already. The notion that it is some fount of (somehow until now unrecognized) wisdom is just la-la land stuff.
  
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  January 10, 2022 11:20am
- Fishing in the dark
  
  [Deleted – casual racism unacceptable here. mod.]
  
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  January 10, 2022 11:34am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Well, now. Hadn’t it been a lovely warm holiday period. If this is global warming, bring it on!
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January 10, 2022 8:03am
- kowtow
  
  I see the Whoreald has a piece saying it’s La Nina , but then the spoils it by throwing in “back ground influence of climate change”
  
  The headline itself is a shocker ;
  
  ‘Abnormal summer heat is staying’.
  
  But La Nina is normal . Follow the science , no , just the fear mongering propaganda machine , again.
  
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  January 10, 2022 8:56am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Downticked for the puerile “Whoreald” you’re better than that.
    
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    January 10, 2022 7:02pm
- redqueen
  
  Just you wait for the nuclear winter… 😉
  
  If I had a penny for every dooms day prediction…
  
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  January 10, 2022 9:00am
Thought Criminal

I’m double phizer vaxed in August. I also caught covid, likely omicron, at Christmas. It was like a mid level flu and I’ve recovered well.

Should I get boosted? Is there any value in it? If yes, which booster?
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January 10, 2022 8:05am
- NK
  
  Where do you live?
  
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  January 10, 2022 8:08am
  - mawm
    
    I would presume in NZ if he’s on KB.
    
    As far as I know the government has not announced Omicron in the community so it’s difficult to agree that you had that strain. We have Delta in the community. Getting Covid-19 (did you have a positive test?) after 4 months following double vaxx gives one great confidence in the vaxxes.
    Do you need the booster? Probably only for your vaxx pass as you should have vaccine induced antibodies as well as those from the illness.
    
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    January 10, 2022 8:34am
  - Thought Criminal
    
    NSW
    
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    January 10, 2022 1:24pm
- cmm
  
  Boosted people are getting Omicron and it really is not at all clear that there is any advantage from getting a booster. Pfizer have said there is, but that was based on modelling (since there was not enough data to make the call when they did).
  
  Regardless, we all KNOW that for the first week or two after a jab your immunity goes DOWN, so getting a boost just before you expect to get infected would seem problematic.
  
  On a different tack: are you taking Vit D and Zinc? That’s something you CAN do and we KNOW helps – regardless of vaccination status.
  
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  January 10, 2022 8:12am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    …. but I’ve just read this “Stuff” article telling me that the booster will give old folks like me protection against hospitalisation (from Omicron) for 3 months or so…
    
    Encouraging new data from over the weekend also suggested that after three doses, protection against hospitalisation stays close to 90 per cent for people aged 65+ for at least three months or so.
    
    The fact that we’ve only known about Omicron for 6 weeks (since Nov 26th) seems to have escaped the author’s (Keith Lynch) notice.
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/explained/127451238/covid19-will-the-vaccine-protect-me-from-omicron
    
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    January 10, 2022 9:30am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      We wouldn’t have to be having this conversation if CMM and CK were right about herd immunity, it would all be done and dusted by now. He or she can’t grasp the concept that no one is saying a booster will absolutely stop an infection, only that the impacts of any infection will be reduced.
      I think Auckland is over 95% double vaxed now and still rising, the nutter fringe is awkwardly reduced. Tamaki has had to shoot off to Christchurch in an attempt to boost numbers. It was a big crowd however, 3 dogs and CMM were walked on a lead by a cat.
      
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      January 10, 2022 9:52am
      - cmm
        
        Poor Brian how do you cope with so much bile in your body.
        
        You have made reference to myself and, I suppose, KK being wrong about herd immunity many times. It is unclear to me what statements you are referring to.
        
        I can’t think of anything I have said about herd immunity that has been proven wrong. If anything, everything I have said about herd immunity has been shown to be true.
        
        No matter what Cindy says, the vaccine is not 95% effective (esp with Omicon). Unless you have a 95% or more effective vaccine, with a broad effectiveness that combats escape, then it will not “stamp out” a virus or control it effectively as smallpox has been.
        
        A partially effective vaccine (especially an mRNA type) drives mutation and thus actively works against herd immunity.
        
        Natural herd immunity requires natural infection. That only happens if we are allowed to be infected. If we’re all hiding under the bed then we can’t get infected and herd immunity.
        
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        January 10, 2022 10:12am
      - BananaLlama
        
        I think you are both nutters.
        
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        January 10, 2022 10:15am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        In the years to come, NZ will be a useful study.
        
        Unlike most other countries in the World, NZ missed out on the first waves of Covid spread where folks became infected before vaccines appeared. Hence most countries have a pool of recovered folks who had a naturally-induced immune response to Covid-19.
        In developed countries most of these previously infected folks have now been vaccinated…so it is now difficult to separate the efficacy of the vaccine alone from a natural immunity response to new waves of infection (whether Delta, omicron or other variants).
        
        Most of us in NZ are Covid-19 virgins… we have had no previous exposure to the virus…..
        
        The next few months will show us whether our vax status affords us much protection or not from the disease.
        
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        January 10, 2022 10:52am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Oh Brian, you must have missed all of the Covidians breathlessly telling us that once we were jabbed it was all over. No mention of boosters!
        Didn’t Ardern tell us the jab would sort it just the same as measles?
        Didn’t the CDC say jabbed don’t carry the virus?
        
        https://www.businessinsider.com.au/cdc-director-data-vaccinated-people-do-not-carry-covid-19-2021-3?r=US&IR=T
        
        Didn’t Rachel Maddow tell us the jab would stop the virus in it’s tracks?
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWLc8dHW0T4
        
        You’re stretching the truth a wee bit if you’re claiming, as others have, that “we always knew the vaccine doesn’t stop you getting covid.” That’s a porkie right there. That’s a non truth. It’s a factual negative. Almost as bad as “two weeks to flatten the curve!!”
        
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        January 10, 2022 11:39am
    - cmm
      
      Pfizer were already saying the 3 month thing back in the first week or so of December when Omicron had only been around for 2 weeks.
      
      This 3 months guess/hope is based on modelling – with absolutely no clinical backing.
      
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      January 10, 2022 10:01am
  - Ed Snack
    
    It may be a short term phenomena, but as per the link I posted yesterday, in Ontario (Canada), with the apparent rise of Omicron, the vaccinated are now roughly 50% MORE likely to catch Covid than the unvaccinated.
    
    That is, BTW, measured in the separate populations of vaccinated and unvaccinated, so is a valid comparison. Holds for all age groups with reliable data – with the 60+ age group excluded as they are close to 99% vaccinated and hence the unvaccinated group is too small to gather useful data, and the youngest age group where vaccination has just started (seemingly in order to ensure that the young DO get Omicron) and hence the data is muddled with the “temporary” immune suppression following vaccination and the large numbers of single vaccinated people.
    
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    January 10, 2022 9:56am
    - Cassandra
      
      One phenomenon, two phenomena.
      
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      January 10, 2022 11:22am
      - hmmokrightitis
        
        Closely followed by doo doo be doodoo
        
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        January 10, 2022 12:35pm
    - bronny1
      
      did you see the data i shared yesterday from UKHSA?
      82% fully vaxxed (two doses or more).
      75% of deaths in the last months in the fully vaxxed.
      Doesn’t seem like it does much to reduce the impact either.
      
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      January 10, 2022 1:14pm
      - Fight4NZ
        
        For goodness sakes bronny could you for once read and absorb the information you are given. I can’t be bothered trying to find it now but sometime in the last week or 2 there was a comment with the simple maths to show why you get this result in a population with high vaccination. It is simply a matter of numbers not a result of vaxx status.
        
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        January 10, 2022 4:45pm
      - bronny1
        
        Flight you are wrong. I have a maths degree so I’m pretty comfortable working with this stuff, and made it real simple for you by providing the percent double vaxxed for comparison. Sorry you are too stupid to understand the most simplified of maths.
        
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        January 10, 2022 6:55pm
    - Fight4NZ
      
      It may have something to it, but a few twitter posts by a former mining exec is not a source I would leap to for solid reliable information on vaccinations.
      
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      January 10, 2022 5:17pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        F4NZ – you are clueless. Get a grip of yourself. At some point reality is going to bite you very hard.
        
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        January 10, 2022 8:23pm
      - Fight4NZ
        
        Looks like reality has got a snowballs chance of biting you.
        
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        January 11, 2022 10:16am
- emmess
  
  This is not medical advice but I’d say ‘no’, there might be evidence that it is actually harmful.
  Refer to the Joe Rogan interview with Dr Robert Malone then do some further research.
  
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  January 10, 2022 8:17am
  - Observer of Life
    
    The Joe Rogan interview (#1757) has been removed so seems to be only available on Spotify. Quelle surprise!!
    
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    January 10, 2022 9:44am
    - emmess
      
      Far be from me to jump in to defend big tech.
      But removed from where? Youtube?
      AFAIK, Joe Rogan has an exclusive agreement with Spotify, andd only clips are allowed on other platforms.
      
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      January 10, 2022 11:48am
      - Observer of Life
        
        Emm: I think I had it up on YouTube. Went back to continue watching a day after starting only to find it had disappeared.
        
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        January 10, 2022 1:24pm
- cmm
  
  … also… Just keep it quiet until AFTER the Wedding of the Century.
  
  If you spoil Cindy’s big day then you’re just a big meanie!
  
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  January 10, 2022 8:21am
  - redqueen
    
    Worse than that, you’ll be labelled anti-science, a bully, and likely have your life destroyed. All in the name of ‘be kind’.
    
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    January 10, 2022 9:03am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Were you tested positive? If so I would not get boosted.
  
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  January 10, 2022 8:21am
  - Thought Criminal
    
    RAT tested positive in Dec.
    
    This is how I was thinking Benedict. I’m not sure of the value of a booster. Surely I have a form of natural immunity now?
    
    But how long will that last?
    
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    January 10, 2022 1:31pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      It depends what your intention is. If you want to be “vaccinated” then don’t bother – you won’t be, no matter how many boosters you take.
      
      If you want to “enjoy” the “freedoms” that come with the status of having your papers in order, then you must of course comply.
      
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      January 10, 2022 7:08pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Wait another 6 months–it looks like the effects of the vaccinations are becoming expressed by the day.
  
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  January 10, 2022 8:23am
- ByGolly
  
  No and no. More likely side effects after infection is a possibility.
  
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  January 10, 2022 8:29am
- NK
  
  I’m not a doctor, nor do I have a medical background, so from a clinical perspective, won’t go there.
  
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  January 10, 2022 8:44am
- bronny1
  
  Why on earth would you have a booster? You have way better immunity now that the narrow spectrum short term “immunity” from a vaccine. And the risks of having the vax after getting covid are higher than the risks if you have not had covid.
  Can’t believe you would even be asking that question….what are you scared of? It was a mild flu as you said yourself!
  
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  January 10, 2022 9:15am
- OTGO
  
  Maybe you could ask Novak Djokovic?
  
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  January 10, 2022 11:04am
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  “Should I get boosted?”
  
  Is this even a question at this stage? You’ve had Covid (while being deemed officially “fully vaccinated”), and judging by the fact you’ve posted a comment, you seem to have survived. So why would you need a booster that doesn’t work? More importantly, by getting boosted you are facilitating the march into permanent submission to the government, who will have the ability to take away your rights as and when it sees fit (in fact, they’ve already done this). Again, is this even a question at this stage?
  
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  January 10, 2022 12:04pm
  - Thought Criminal
    
    Good reply. Thanks.
    
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    January 10, 2022 4:38pm
Warren

Another day in paradise and will the Kiwiblog Mob like Simon the fish monger continue their hate mail against the National Party Leader Chris Luxon.
For me this is ridiculous and petty so if you want change become a member go to meetings and have your say instead hanging your dirty washing on kiwiblog.
All you are doing is what we have been saying for months about our Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern , dividing New Zealander’s but the difference is you guys want to destroy the National Party .
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January 10, 2022 8:12am
- lifesgood
  
  @ Warren It really grinds my gears. No matter who leads the National Party the haters, who claim to be Nat supporters but clearly aren’t, get stuck in. They hated on Simon, they hated on Judith and now they are hating on Luxon. They are morons. Do they really want this ghastly government we now have to get back in power? If they do they are going the right way about it. For goodness sake, no leader is going to please every single person on every single point. These haters need to grow up and start showing a unified face or shut up. Otherwise they will do the stupid thing the South Island farmers did and look where that got us.
  
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  January 10, 2022 9:59am
  - Paulus
    
    He who pays the Piper calls the Tune – another $50 million please.
    
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    January 10, 2022 10:50am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    You can habitually vote for “Team Blue” simply because they are Team Blue and not Team Red if you wish, but I will not vote for someone who hasn’t done anything to earn my vote. What would be different in anything but a cosmetic sense if National was in power? Who knows. I’ll abstain if necessary. If that means Labour get back in, so be it. We’ll continue to get a limp wristed, passive and directionless National is we keep voting for them regardless, because why would they change in that case?
    
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    January 10, 2022 12:14pm
cmm

Dear Melissa Lee

(Copy posted on Kiwiblog & emailed to Ms Lee).

I shall take what you wrote in Kiwiblog yesterday at face value: that you genuinely want to help develop the IT sector.

If you want to fix the IT sector, then I think there really is one key thing to focus on: Stop trying to actively “fix” the problem. Rather find what the bottlenecks are, remove those, and allow the people to fix the sector themselves.

As you are a politician, I think it is easy to fall into the trap of thinking that you build the economy etc and can actively “grow” the sector by your actions, but I think you are looking at it the wrong way around. Rather remove the obstacles – mainly placed there by government – and watch the sector flourish on its own accord.

Key things are:
* Remove the need to capitalise R&D expenditure. Treat R&D as an expense. Capitalisation of R&D reduces the amount of spending on R&D because the cost must be born up front, hurting cashflow etc, but can only be written off as an expense over many years. This is contributory to NZ’s reluctance to do R&D. While this would benefit almost all industry, it is key in the IT space where the vast majority of activity is R&D.

* Make it easier for HIGH QUALITY people of all skillsets to immigrate to NZ. When I immigrated to NZ in 1992, I entered as a New Zealand Resident. These days people have to be screwed around with a temporary status for a year or two – making it harder to buy houses etc. Fix this! (I noticed it was on your list of things to do). Note though that I would not extend this to anyone that can wave around a “tech degree” since there are lots of low quality degrees out there. The current classifications of “skilled migrant” and “skill shortage” is ridiculous and includes such skills as barman. No wonder the immigration is now more challenging.

* Just focus on making NZ a better place for high quality people to live. That will attract high quality immigrants as well as retain New Zealanders who flock overseas. Most immigrants (that you want to attract) have options to go anywhere in the world. Make NZ THE target destination of people like that. That really means focusing on sorting out the gangs, opening up better housing development etc.

There is little point in trying to develop local talent and all the thumb-on-scale stuff you propose for local universities if people then leave NZ. Trying to attract PhD students from overseas is of low value. Very few people in the IT space have PhDs or need PhDs. Those that come here see NZ as a cheap place to get a PhD then leave again. It is unclear to me what they achieve.

Please understand that there is NO single “IT sector” or “digital economy”. This is actually an umbrella for multiple industries, encompassing a huge variety of skill sets. Not all those skillsets are in demand or are of high value.

Please also understand that this is a highly mobile workforce. Even those that physically live in NZ often work elsewhere (either directly or via foreign owned local companies). For example I have lived in NZ for 29.5 years, but during that time I have really only worked for a few months in the local economy (less than a year in total). For the most part I have either:
* Worked as a consultant directly for overseas companies.
* Worked as a consultant or employee for an overseas company with local offices.

Many, if not most, highly successful NZ companies end up being bought. After that they no longer really participate in the local economy (beyond paying staff). Their IP is strip mined and is, essentially, exported for free.

Please feel free to contact me if you would like to discuss further.

Regards
…
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January 10, 2022 8:13am
- KevO'Brien
  
  R&D is capital expenditure. Any allowed deduction for income tax has to be a political decision to subsidise.
  Software R&D is a bottomless pit.
  
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  January 10, 2022 8:20am
  - cmm
    
    R&D is capital expenditure which puts it on the asset register to same as buying plant or equipment.
    
    If you do your numbers and due diligence then buying equipment is relatively low risk. You know your plastic injection machine should last many years and provide reliable service. You pay the money, install it and a few days later it’s making money. Low risk and you can probably get some creative financing or a lease.
    
    The problem with that is that R&D is often highly speculative. Often the spending does not produce anything of value for years, but all along the way you’re paying salaries and can’t write off any of the expenditure. Come the end of the development and there’s a high chance that it produces nothing of value or takes 5 to 10 years more to result in revenue.
    
    R&D expenditure would be highly advantageous for many companies but there is a commercial disincentive to not do so. This stifles entrepreneurial development and the cashflow makes it particularly prohibitive for SMEs.
    
    This really is a policy change that could shift entrepreneurship in NZ.
    
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    January 10, 2022 8:30am
    - Ed Snack
      
      What is the write off period for such R&D cmm ? I thought it was around 3 years, so hardly a long term expense.
      
      In accounting terms R&D IS capital expenditure as any putative benefits are in the future and hence the costs should be matched against the benefits derived. However in economic terms, maybe it would pay to shorten the write off and make it on a straight line basis not a DV% (which it may already be)
      
      Also, see this: https://www.business.govt.nz/news/r-and-d-tax-incentive-2019
      
      I also note that R&D is a fairly fluid definition, and has, in the past, been used to my knowledge to sidestep various tax laws and rulings in borderline dishonest ways. Make R&D an expensed item and potentially a lot of faux R&D is bound to be engaged upon.
      
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      January 10, 2022 10:13am
      - cmm
        
        I do somewhat agree, but due to the highly speculative nature of much R&D, even writing it off over 3 years leads to cash flow issues. Rather write it off immediately.
        
        Remember that significant software developments (or many R&D endevours) take many years during which salaries etc must be paid. Often it is only after many years of effort that a project gets to the point where it becomes a real “asset”.
        
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        January 10, 2022 12:33pm
  - cmm
    
    Oh, by the way, it all gets written off in the end anyway. All that changes is when.
    
    It is not really a “subsidy” or “tax break”. It is just time-shifting when the deduction is allowed to be more advantageous for cashflow.
    
    Most companies lease equipment to keep them off the asset register. Due to there being no residual value in custom software, this generally cannot be leased and financing is difficult.
    
    As you say, software R&D is a bottomless pit mainly because it is high risk. For this reason it is very unlike tangible assets.
    
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    January 10, 2022 8:36am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      R&D leads up to the creation of an income producing asset hence its’s nature as a capital outlay itself. The same principle is why the whole cost of establishing a business is not a write off at the outset. Taxes are levied on income not capital so only the revenue inputs are deductible. It’s a govt issue whether a portion of the capital should be allowed as a deduction too.
      At present the R&D writeoffs allowed are relatively generous.
      
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      January 10, 2022 11:43am
      - cmm
        
        “R&D leads up to the creation of an income producing asset”.
        
        Not always. Very often not. It is the very nature of R&D that it often fails to have a beneficial outcome.
        
        If it really does have a financial benefit, then the subsequent profits will be taxable anyway.
        
        Early write off of R&D does not change the amount of tax payed, it only changes WHEN it is paid. As I wrote before, it is about cash flow – nothing else.
        
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        January 10, 2022 12:36pm
- catmonkey
  
  We will see more and more Kiwi’s who live in New Zealand working remotely for overseas companies because remote work is becoming normalized, the renumeration is better and the work is more interesting, especially in the software space.
  
  It will be good for the country because of increased tax revenue, but it will be a brain drain from the perspective of NZ companies because less local talent is available to work.
  
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  January 10, 2022 8:25am
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    About 12 years ago I was at a conference and someone told me there were people in Ahipara who worked in London!!!
    
    They started work at about 2100 NZT and worked through to 0400 NZT and then went to bed.
    
    Got up late morning then spent the day surfing in the sea and then back to work.
    
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    January 10, 2022 10:20am
- Matt Long
  
  CMM “If you want to fix the IT sector, then I think there really is one key thing to focus on: Stop trying to actively “fix” the problem. Rather find what the bottlenecks are, remove those, and allow the people to fix the sector themselves.”
  This is the same in all sectors, if the Government was a gardener it would first poison the soil. Then it would notice the plants are withering, so would call in consultants (parasites) to suck the sap of the plants while ignoring any advice from the consultants that did not further poison the soil.
  Then it would expend all it’s efforts on getting weeds to choke out any productive plants that are left.
  Finally when all the beneficial plants have died out, retired or emigrated it would attempt to transplant other productive plants in to the poisoned soil.
  
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  January 10, 2022 8:44am
  - cmm
    
    Yes, I agree. For the most part all those principles apply elsewhere too.
    
    One thing you forgot in your analogy:
    * They would give extra fertiliser and water (taken from the productive plants) to the weeds telling everyone that this will turn the weeds into productive plants.
    
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    January 10, 2022 8:52am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  If your letter was for some other reason than your own anonymous vanity you wouldn’t have put it on KB to troll her.
  
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  January 10, 2022 9:40am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Wow Brian, you really are a nasty prick aren’t you.
    
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    January 10, 2022 9:58am
  - cmm
    
    Hi Brian Happy New Year to you… despite yourself!
    
    How about I comment to politicians on my industry that I understand and you comment to politicians relative to your industry? Does that make sense?
    
    I’ll even help you: The National spokes person for Corrections is Simeon Brown. I am sure he’d welcome the inside story.
    
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    January 10, 2022 10:21am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    You weren’t following last night’s comments on here,
    were you Brian?
    
    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2022/01/guest_post_digital_skills_shortages_a_blight_of_new_zealands_tech_sector.html#comments
    
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    January 10, 2022 11:02am
- JJ56
  
  There is a more basic issue that ironically is embedded in -D’s first (currently) comment on this post and the link to Jerry Coyne’s blog. That is to address our numeracy and literacy performance, and with that our STEM performance as a population.
  
  In particular see https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/300485895/we-are-having-the-wrong-debate-over-how-we-teach-science, linked to in Jerry Coyne’s piece.
  
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  January 10, 2022 9:52am
- Cassandra
  
  Very interesting, cmm. I am particularly attracted to your idea of making NZ an attractive place to live. I think that’s the key. A socialist paradise (I know, oxymoron) is not such a place, but we have the bare bones eg climate, geography, now let’s improve the man made part. Squashing the idea of an ethno-state would be a very good first step, closely followed by stopping any tax increases. As a pensioner with a modest super plan I pay 50% of my income (income tax, GST, levies on petrol & liquor etc) to the government. Surely that’s too much already.
  
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  January 10, 2022 11:30am
Bridgenag

SENT TO ME

“PEOPLE ARE SLEEPING IN CARS AND DOORWAYS YET WE SPEND $600 MILLION ON MAORI LANGUAGE????
By Don Jacobs
 Perhaps someone could help me out here …  I have it on various degrees of anecdotal evidence that 99.9% of 5 year olds rock on up to their first day at primary school … and pretty much the whole lot of them can speak English …  Now, I wonder who taught them?? … Whoever did this wasn’t instructed to do it, there was no letter from the ‘Ministry of English’ that arrived in the post on the day of your 0 year-old’s birth …
They weren’t forced into doing it, they weren’t compelled to do it … They weren’t coerced or bribed into doing it … they just did it for no apparent reason … and they didn’t charge the taxpayer a cent.
Imagine that – a whole country of such diversity of ethnicity, of South Africans, of Samoans, of Hindus, of Muslims, of English all getting up in the morning, from all parts of New Zealand, none of them in contact with each other, yet all working in tandem, all without any instruction from anyone, nor any involvement of government and not costing the taxpayer a cent …
And the product? Well, it is so astonishing that I am going to say it again … pretty much all five year olds that rock on up to primary school on their first day can speak English.  Now, here’s another of those strangest of strange things. English isn’t even an official language of New Zealand. (There are only 2 official languages Maori and sign language.) So it continues to baffle me why all these people would teach their children a language that doesn’t even have any official standing in New Zealand …  Now here’s another odd thing … In 1984, $3 million of taxpayer money was spent on teaching Te Reo … by 2016 it was up to $260 million … and now it is heading towards $600 million … and you know what?? … there are less Maori speakers now than there were in 1984.  So now, here’s my point. Here we are in a country where people are sleeping in cars and in doorways … and we spend 600 million on Te Reo …  I’m no builder, but I reckon you could build a cheap house for about $250,000. For 600 million you could build 2,400 homes …
5 people in each home = 12,000 people housed..  EVERY BLOODY YEAR !!!!  In what right and just society do we allow this insanity to prevail ???”
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January 10, 2022 8:22am
Yvette

The move towards a more Māori foreign policy
– which could make some people a little cranky – perhaps supporters of the Auckland University Science Seven to start with –

In her first major foreign policy speech, to the diplomatic corps at the Waitangi Day commemorations in 2021, Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta put tirohanga Māori (the Māori worldview) at the forefront of her approach to the role, citing “values such as manaaki – kindness or the reciprocity of goodwill; whanaunga – our connectedness or shared sense of humanity; mahi tahi and kotahitanga – collective benefits and shared aspiration; and kaitiaki – protectors and stewards of our intergenerational wellbeing”.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/the-move-towards-a-more-maori-foreign-policy

So somewhere in the Kremlin –
Vladimir Putin: Так что же это за новозеландская женщина, Махута? … Oops … So what is this New Zealandya woman, Mahuta, who really looks more like an Alaskan Inuit, actually saying?
Comrade Advisor: She claims “Each of these values when expressed in a relationship gives a sense that everything is connected and purposeful. And, what the world needs now is a commitment towards empathy, sustainability, and intergenerational solutions for wellbeing.”
Vlad: Well, that all really goes back in diplomatic history long before the westerner Caesar got stabbed in the rotunda.
Comrade Advisor: So, President, does this alter your heroic and historic mission to reverse Ukraine’s drift towards the west, despite your own role in creating a rift by annexing Crimea and fuelling a war in Ukraine’s south-east? Does this kaitiaki thing cut it?
Vlad: Nyet! – not yet, nor never!

Maybe Mahuta will get a fleeting Matariki moment out of this, but “I pointed out to you the stars and all you saw was the tip of my finger” – proverb, perhaps Inuit

Maori may do as much for the diplomatic corps, as it did for the Climate Commission Report for which a group of 300 New Zealand lawyers are suing the Commission and James Shaw.
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January 10, 2022 8:28am
- Yvette
  
  [Fixed. mod.]
  
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  January 10, 2022 9:01am
  - Yvette
    
    Moderator, thank you
    
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    January 10, 2022 11:04am
- Paulus
  
  Looks athough the real Green Party are very unhappy with Shaw as he is a)a male and b) not a real left wing green enough.
  He wil lbe rolled soon as the greens change their leadership male/female policy soon.
  
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  January 10, 2022 10:55am
  - alloytoo
    
    Shaw is also the only vaguely presentable face of the party.
    
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    January 10, 2022 9:09pm
- Jack5
  
  There are Inuit people in Siberia, too.
  
  When it comes to broader group of Arctic people, can we still use the word, Eskimo?
  
  There are more Eskimo in Russia than in Canada and the United States together.
  
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  January 10, 2022 11:09am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    can we still use the word, Eskimo?
    
    I think not..
    
    Arctic indigenous peoples include for example Saami in circumpolar areas of Finland, Sweden, Norway and Northwest Russia, Nenets, Khanty, Evenk and Chukchi in Russia, Aleut, Yupik and Inuit (Iñupiat) in Alaska, Inuit (Inuvialuit) in Canada and Inuit (Kalaallit) in Greenland.
    
    https://www.arcticcentre.org/EN/arcticregion/Arctic-Indigenous-Peoples
    
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    January 10, 2022 11:59am
    - alloytoo
      
      If no Artic Indigenous peoples identify as “Eskimo” can we rename the lolly back to “Eskimos” then?
      
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      January 10, 2022 9:10pm
  - pdm
    
    Jack – I think you can use the word Eskimo as long as you don’t put the word Pies after it – as in the former Eskimo Pies.
    
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    January 10, 2022 9:33pm
Biscuit

It’s Monday, dear Kiwibloggers, and before the week begins to get you down, ponder this:

You COULD be the King of Spain:

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/angegWE_460svvp9.webm
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January 10, 2022 8:29am
- pdm
  
  Biscuit is that an extension of the nursery rhyme – A Partridge In A Pear Tree’ – where the Queen of Spains Daughter came to visit me.?
  
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  January 10, 2022 10:06am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING

Green list MP Golriz Gharahman to remove controversial ‘eye-liner’ post after call from party co-leader James Shaw.

Shaw confirmed he had spoken to the MP after being made aware of the post.

https://twitter.com/golrizghahraman/status/1480072009723699207

Kabita: “queen whats ur liner?”

Golriz: “Mac, liquid last (it stays on for reals)
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January 10, 2022 8:41am
- MCōs
  
  It’s still there, despite what your normally impeccable sources tell you.
  
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  January 10, 2022 9:13am
- bronny1
  
  Why is it controversial?
  
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  January 10, 2022 9:21am
- pdm
  
  Luxon made the MSM for making a member of his caucus remove something from facebook.
  
  Shaw telling Golriz off does not seem to have – strange that but the makes the $55million plus a good investment. No bad news ever.
  
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  January 10, 2022 10:09am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    That’s the point Maggie Pie is making pdm. Shaw hasn’t told Ghahraman off; he wouldn’t dare, given the knives are out for him at the moment from the feminist, anarchist wing of the Greens.
    
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    January 10, 2022 10:23am
    - Yvette
      
      Tony, agreed
      Having the effrontery to arrange that other countries will grow trees to offset emissions that New Zealand will continue to emit, may appeal to Ardern’s Labourless Government and its policy of non-delivery of almost every other policy, but I can see Shaw’s move to not only ”kick the can down the road” (a remarkably significant Labour trait) but to also kick it into someone else’s backyard, could in principle – for its lack of principles – really piss some Greens off.
      James’s days are numbered, for shaw (I can surely get away with that, if he gets away with what he did in Glasgow)
      
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      January 10, 2022 12:06pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I don’t think there’s any decent NZ substitute:
  
  Perhaps soot mixed with mutton bird fat?
  
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  January 10, 2022 10:17am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Mac was founded in Canada, and now has its headquarters in New York, the very heart of global capitalism, which Ghahraman and her mates so despise; except when it suits them.
    
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    January 10, 2022 10:24am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      But she looks great, doesn’t she?
      
      I’ve always loved the way some of the Greens smear themselves with make-up.
      
      Such an unnecessary waste of resources.
      
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      January 10, 2022 11:06am
      - Nickc2
        
        How many petroleum products/bi-products went into making this stuff? How many trees were cut down to supply the packaging for it? How big was the carbon footprint that bought the stuff to her?
        Green in Name Only!
        
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        January 10, 2022 11:16am
grumpy

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10382019/Trans-UPenn-swimmer-Lia-Thomas-wins-200m-freestyle-race-two-seconds.html

So a male identifying as female is beaten in a women’s swimming competition by a female identifying as male.
Question, why was the female identifying as male in the women’s competition or does being transgender mean you can chose which (male or female) events you compete in?
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January 10, 2022 9:05am
- Nickc2
  
  Hey, we started this crap with a Weightlifter transitioning from a male to a female.
  
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  January 10, 2022 11:28am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Have you heard about the female pitcher in an Australian professional baseball team?
  
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  January 10, 2022 12:01pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Yes Chuck but that’s team sports. I’ll go along with that until such times as they direct that the All Black’s hooker must be a female.
    
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    January 10, 2022 12:06pm
Maggie Pie

A bestie retweets….

TV3’s token moko news presenter cuts off reporter just as she’s about to reveal person who attended Music Festival that is now a case and may have infected others was vaccinated.

https://twitter.com/viewspotnz/status/1479917331287396355
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January 10, 2022 9:16am
- Pavel
  
  They don’t need to reveal that, everyone knows that only the vaccinated can attend events like that so it’s not relevant. So much for being a pandemic of the unvaccinated.
  
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  January 10, 2022 9:55am
Maggie Pie

We heard Phil Goff being interviewed on ZB Breakfast earlier..
OMG, that Tim Dow’s such an ass licker!
Wonder when Mike’s back….he wont even have Goof on his show.
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January 10, 2022 9:50am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, to hand Tim some credit he did say crime and lawlessness was getting ‘out of hand’ in the CBD. Goff ‘refuted that’, a reply steeped in socialism but yes hopefully Mike returns in fighting form. The evening slot with Miles Davis is far more lively with callers than when ‘tumble weed’ Lush is hosting.
  
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  January 10, 2022 10:11am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Personally, I can’t stand the fake accent that Miles Davis guy puts on.
    And my partner’s mum has stopped listening at nights as well. Reckons he never does any research for his show. Says all he ever talks about is old soccer players and dead pommie comedians.
    
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    January 10, 2022 10:40am
    - lifesgood
      
      I don’t believe a lot of his guff. Says he and siblings spent time in a children’s home as kids, cue violin, then says he went to boarding school, in England that means wealth, then talks about his childhood at home with his wonderful mum. He and his siblings have posh names – Miles, Jeremy, Amanda. Not exactly poor working class so why the accent?
      
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      January 10, 2022 11:47am
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Ma reckons he’s a raving Leftoid as well….and suffers bigly from TDS.
        
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        January 10, 2022 12:41pm
Yvette

All passengers over the age of 12 years and three months must show proof of full vaccination status or a negative COVID-19 test before checking in on domestic flights. Find out what you need to know about the vaccination and testing requirements …
Please note: face masks or coverings are a legal requirement on all domestic flights in all traffic light levels
https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/covid19-new-zealand-domestic-travel

• How does Brian Tamaki travel from Auckland to Christchurch and back?
• How many times can Brian break his court conditions before he faces something more substantial than “education”? Does his treatment so far, set a precedent for anyone else before the courts?
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January 10, 2022 9:52am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I presume he drives, or is chauffeured, but probably walks on water to cross Cook Strait.
  
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  January 10, 2022 11:32am
  - MCōs
    
    Fiery chariot
    
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    January 10, 2022 1:08pm
- Surely Knott
  
  Probably just does a negative rat test. How did the close contact djs fly?
  
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  January 10, 2022 6:33pm
Suze Wainwright

So apparently the average Aussie is filthy on Novak Djokovic because he sees himself as an entitled, special person who can flout entry requirements into their country because of his superior status – Djokovic’s elite status being facilitated by Aussie sporting elites, of course.

“Why shouldn’t he face the same restrictions that ordinary Aussies face in getting back into their own country to visit dying loved ones before they pass on and see their other close family members,” the Aussie MSM asks.

Meanwhile, Stuff writes articles for the citizens of aotearoa saying that maybe this DJ Fantastika isn’t such a bad fellow after all, I’m sure he deserved his three special class visa visits through MIQ over the previous year (with no mention of how he got the visa and who/what he might have known to get them) and all this hate being piled on him really isn’t on and is not the aotearoan way…
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January 10, 2022 10:01am
- Fletch
  
  As always, placing blame in the wrong place. It’s not Novak that makes the rules, nor the Ozzies waiting to enter, it’s the Australian government pushing these draconian rules. But because it’s the government, it must be right. I always wondered how the German people went along with the lies their govt told them during WWII, but you can see it in govts around the world right now.
  
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  January 10, 2022 10:55am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    Exactly. Talk about missing the point. Don’t question exceptions to the draconian rules, just question the draconian rules themselves.
    
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    January 10, 2022 12:22pm
- Pavel
  
  I think the real reason people hate on the unvaxxed so much is because alot of people were forced into getting vaxxed against their will so they see it as everyone else should be. Most of the people I know who are vaxxed only did it because their employer made them with the threat of losing their jobs. Apart from a couple of senior citizens I know I’m yet to meet anyone who actually got jabbed because they feared for their health. So if they’re forced to do it why shouldn’t everyone seems to be more the mentality.
  
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  January 10, 2022 11:01am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    The crowd resents the dissenter because they envy his courage.
    
    As with all of the many inversions of reality we are being encouraged to accept, the vaxxed are really angry at themselves, not the unvaxxed. They didn’t have the courage when it counted. However, those multiple millions here and abroad who were herded into their “two shots to freedom” can and will overturn the insanity when they simply refuse any more. The unvaxxed actually have more justification to be angry at the vaxxed, because it is the latter who are prolonging the control measures.
    
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    January 10, 2022 12:28pm
  - Observer of Life
    
    Parcel: Early in in this Covid madness people got vaxxed because Cindy said it meant freedom to travel. Waitinggggggg….
    
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    January 10, 2022 1:52pm
- Nickc2
  
  I believe Lorde dropped a clue here when she allegedly said she couldn’t have received fast-tracking without MIQ or home quarantine if it wasn’t for Political Intervention.
  PS: I can’t find the link ATT.
  
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  January 10, 2022 11:47am
  - MCōs
    
    You can’t find the link.
    Well fancy that.
    
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    January 10, 2022 1:10pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  As a tennis player and fan I have never been impressed with behaviour on the court.
  
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  January 10, 2022 12:34pm
Maggie Pie

‘Give a man a Fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to Fish, and you feed him for a lifetime’

– Apostle Brian Tamaki.

https://instagram.com/p/CYf9JngFAfW/
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January 10, 2022 10:31am
- Yvette
  
  Destiny Church leader Brian Tamaki was speaking at midday at today’s Auckland rally announcing he was the person arrested last week over a previous protest on October 2 in the Domain he helped organised … and apparently has now been doing the same in Christchurch. 
  Further – It will be interesting to see if Tamaki faces new charges – and if so, whether they are “new” charges, or breaking bail conditions of his first charges, and whether either carries the same weight as the other. And if the initial charges fail, do the bail offences still stand if proven?
  Or have I been watching too much SVU on Universal Channel?
  
  But crucially, Maggie – I am still gravely disappointed the story – that Brian Tamaki this second time had for his picnic ordered, using his Countdown One Card, five thousand loaves of bread and the same number of pepper / lemon crumbed hoki fillets – was untrue. Although it would have confirmed his inability to perform miracles, it would have been a nice touch. – kiwiblog, last year
  Maggie, see if I can get more downticks than you have
  
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  January 10, 2022 12:21pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Teach him to fish and he needs to buy a boat, Landcruiser, rods, reels, drogue, electric winches, lures, bait, fishbin chiller, nightlights, GPS/fishfinder etc.
  A boat is a hole in the water into which you pour money
  
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  January 10, 2022 2:14pm
  - MCōs
    
    My father went salmon fishing all his life at the Rangitata (expect for a few years at each end).
    The most important things were fish to catch and blokes to talk to.
    Unfortunately the fish are gone with the limit reduced from 6/day to 2/year.
    
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    January 10, 2022 2:32pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Fun police, although salmon fishing is different to sea fishing ( even that is limited) Wonder what the limit is on/around Taupo for trout now?
      Commercial fishing has killed recreational fishing. Snapper is NZ$49.50 per kilo for fuck’s sake.
      Then to go fishing in Auckland it costs NZ$ 245 to fill my boat tank with petrol.
      Socialism is wonderful, everyone is equally miserable, thanks Jaspinda
      
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      January 10, 2022 3:48pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Perhaps you will vote for the Greens next time. They would probably be proposing to limit commercial fishing.
        
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        January 10, 2022 4:22pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        You wouldn’t want to pay the Diesel bill for my partner’s boat then Steve! LOL!!
        
        And I often hear people saying how much the price of Petrol has gone up.
        But to honest I haven’t noticed it here. I’ve been putting $140 a week in my car for about two years now.
        
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        January 10, 2022 5:01pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  But at a cost to local fish stocks
  
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  January 10, 2022 9:24pm
Rusty

The girl who presented the 6.pm news on TV one saturday night pronounced Sidney Poitier’s name as Poi-tee-er. Obviously she had never heard of this great American black actor who had died.

The girl with the moko on 3 News pronounced his name spot on — full marks to her.
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January 10, 2022 10:40am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  There’s such an emphasis on pronouncing Te reo “correctly” in our Media, but not so much with English or other languages.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/127430782/language-matters-logic-rarely-influences-the-way-we-pronounce-words
  
  23 2
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  January 10, 2022 11:14am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    But which Te Reo? There are tribal differences.
    
    15 4
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    January 10, 2022 11:52am
  - cmm
    
    When people use Maori words in English sentences then they become English words and are subject to changes in pronunciation, and English usage rules.
    
    It is the case for all languages.
    
    When we say Paris, only the most affected use the French pronunciation (Pah-ree or whatever).
    
    When Maori adopted “clock” it became “karaka”. Nobody throws a fit that they should say “clock”.
    
    The same for grammatical rules. The plural of kumara is kumaras. It isn’t pluralised the Maori way.
    
    14 3
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    January 10, 2022 12:49pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      It always amuses me when recent immigrants want to dictate usage for NZ English, let alone to reo.
      
      2 21
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      January 10, 2022 1:47pm
      - Kiwi Dave
        
        So what’s wrong with cmm’s argument? It’s the same argument I (native-born English teacher in NZ for 31 years and then ESL teacher overseas for ten more years) would make, not so much to prove that a particular usage is the only possible correct form as to undermine the self-righteous and linguistically ignorant indignation from those who impose Maori (or Latin etc) language norms on English sentences.
        
        10 2
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        January 10, 2022 3:53pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Languages change. New Zealand English is likely to adopt more te reo terms as it evolves. This is not a good thing, or a bad thing; it’s just a thing.
        Language conventions are not frozen in time.
        
        5 5
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        January 10, 2022 4:19pm
      - Kiwi Dave
        
        I quite agree, mma, with your 4.19 comment, which deals with the issue much better than your 1.47 comment.
        
        However, many dogmatically claim language change/difference is a bad thing entitling them to make swingeing condemnations of others but, as cmm implies, they tend to be a bit selective in their judgements.
        
        4 0
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        January 10, 2022 5:24pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Ngarua i wahia. Melissa TV1 play school on the Weather News
    
    4 3
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    January 10, 2022 3:50pm
Tauhei Notts

The tropics?
I live 37 degrees 38′ south and it is 24 degrees C and a heavy shower comes over.
6 2
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January 10, 2022 10:49am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7SugT14zrg

Have you got the ‘Climate Change’?

Doctor diagnoses patient with ‘climate change’. [0:55]
8 3
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January 10, 2022 10:55am
curry4me

I wonder if the ACT team are writing a new book over the summer break? Maybe they could call it Once Were Freedom Fighters.
11 6
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January 10, 2022 10:56am
- Cassandra
  
  You’re free, curry. But not free to affect me. What’s your problem?
  
  2 12
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  January 10, 2022 11:35am
  - curry4me
    
    Cassandra: Something to do with the ‘freedom party’ joining the Branch Covidians, and jettisoning their most important principle.
    
    2 0
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    January 10, 2022 7:57pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb2ggWuTy2o

Teacher’s Pet U-Turns on Health Restriction after Freedom March in Paris.

There was a freedom march in Paris, and Macron changed policy.
8 3
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January 10, 2022 10:57am
- Nickc2
  
  It’s the French thing to change sides, remember WWII.
  
  8 4
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  January 10, 2022 11:52am
  - Mike
    
    I think it is more of an Italian thing, reputably, to change sites (both world wars).
    
    7 2
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    January 10, 2022 12:38pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      *reputedly*
      
      6 6
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      January 10, 2022 1:58pm
  - curry4me
    
    Nickc2: Ah yes, cue jokes about second hand rifles which have been dropped once, and never fired.
    
    2 0
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    January 10, 2022 7:58pm
Fletch

Taking the time to re-read this very long article/study. The money phrase –

We assume the inoculations prevent all the deaths truly attributable to COVID-19 (these are the total deaths attributed to COVID-19 officially minus 1) the number of false positives resulting from the PCR tests run at very high amplification cycles and 2) the number of deaths that could have been attributed to one of the many comorbidities that were typical of those who succumbed, as shown in our results section) over the period December 2019 to end-of-May 2021, and relate that number to the deaths truly attributable to the inoculation (from January 2021 to end-of-May 2021) based on our computations in the results section. The results show conservatively that there are five times the number of deaths truly attributable to each inoculation vs those truly attributable to COVID-19 in the 65+ demographic. As age decreases, and the risk for COVID-19 decreases, the cost-benefit increases. Thus, if the best-case scenario looks poor for benefits from the inoculations, any realistic scenario will look very poor. For children the chances of death from COVID-19 are negligible, but the chances of serious damage over their lifetime from the toxic inoculations are not negligible.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221475002100161X
14 4
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January 10, 2022 11:10am
Maggie Pie

Not to brag or anything…but when I get naked in the bathroom the shower gets turned on.
14 8
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January 10, 2022 11:39am
- KevO'Brien
  
  You’ll have to get it to cover its watery eyes.
  
  7 4
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  January 10, 2022 11:53am
- Don Beckett
  
  Funny Maggie – the same thing happens for me 😆
  
  5 4
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  January 10, 2022 4:41pm
Reid

Dr. Mattias Desmet, Dr. Robert Malone, Dr. Peter McCullough (Mass Formation)

https://rumble.com/vrxr3n-tpc-653-dr.-mattias-desmet-dr.-robert-malone-dr.-peter-mccullough-mass-form.html
11 5
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January 10, 2022 11:43am
Fletch

The Novak trial due to start LIVE soon –

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwMoEH3M9Zc

They have an unofficial poll there too with 79% saying Novak will win and the State will lose.
12 4
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January 10, 2022 11:55am
- Inandout
  
  Fletch, as opposed to Murray Olds who calls Novak an idiot, not an unusual term used by Murray who also often refers to anyone anti this vax as a moron.
  
  10 3
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  January 10, 2022 12:28pm
- Fletch
  
  The official link is supposed to be here, but they are having technical problems and the trial hasn’t begun –
  
  https://secure.quickchannel.com/qc/create/mainshow.asp?ID=nobroadcast&STATICLIVE=1&PRODUCER_ID=ability1421&SESSIONID=34AB945B00000000306141321DCEAE14&VMR=room20@fedcourt.gov.au
  
  4 3
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  January 10, 2022 12:42pm
  - Fletch
    
    Looks like it is going ahead without the stream now because of “technical issues”….
    
    5 3
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    January 10, 2022 1:54pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      I’d say that guy Dutton’s pulled the plug out.
      
      6 4
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      January 10, 2022 2:39pm
- Paulus
  
  Of course – that is the Aussie Way (like the USA).
  The Victorian Government is a Labour one, and along with the Tennis people who want money, will get the media to take exception to the Rules of the Federal Australian Government – the Prime Minister not being a Labour one.
  
  4 4
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  January 10, 2022 1:29pm
- MCōs
  
  Australia has draconian laws when it comes to detaining people who try to get into the country illegally.
  
  5 1
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  January 10, 2022 2:01pm
Reid

This guy explains DNA, mRNA in 4 mins.

https://t.me/Qknows17/5918
7 4
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January 10, 2022 12:07pm
- MCōs
  
  Four minutes
  
  4 2
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  January 10, 2022 2:17pm
Maggie Pie

AND CHECK THIS OUT

A twitter-besties most viewed post of 2021….
clocked up over 159,000 views of Cindy losing the plot! 😀

https://twitter.com/NzStew/status/1473155584119566341
21 7
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January 10, 2022 1:01pm
- Observer of Life
  
  MagPie: She looks bloody awful in that post. Reminds me of the sort of person we’d see as a main character in Train Spotting!
  
  20 5
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  January 10, 2022 2:07pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Might be being just a wee bit harsh there, Obsey 🙁
    
    3 13
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    January 10, 2022 2:35pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Oh For Fux’s Sake…
  
  Clearly we dumbos need to be spoken to in baby-talk analogies, because we are too thick to understand how our immune system works.
  
  Our PM uses a kindy, primary, and secondary school theme…..
  
  Our Experts use a learning analogy;
  
  When you read something the first time around, you kinda know what’s going on. You read it again and your understanding improves. Then you read it for a third time and you really get it.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/explained/127451238/covid19-will-the-vaccine-protect-me-from-omicron
  
  14 3
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  January 10, 2022 2:37pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    This was my fave reply 😀 😀 😀
    
    https://twitter.com/Minutemen87/status/1473161139450040320
    
    11 4
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    January 10, 2022 3:02pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    “The whole truth”? Wasn’t that what Goebbels’s said?
    
    5 4
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    January 10, 2022 5:21pm
  - Fight4NZ
    
    Looking at a lot of the comments made there is substantial doubt about how much understanding there is of the immune system, basic statistics and rudimentary biochemistry. So, yes, dumbing it down even further doesn’t seem likely to be more successful.
    
    6 0
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    January 10, 2022 5:28pm
    - bronny1
      
      Well you showed earlier that you are too dumbed down to understand two percentages so perhaps next time I will aim for a more intelligent audience.
      
      1 0
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      January 10, 2022 7:10pm
      - Fight4NZ
        
        You really haven’t figured out that the two percentages next to eachother is not the whole story???
        
        0 0
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        January 11, 2022 10:15am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Sad how she uses word soup thinking the team of 5 million get it
  
  7 5
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  January 10, 2022 4:12pm
I remember when

Watched the NSW covid update on Sky News.
Lots of talk about relevance of age, co-morbidity and the fact the vaccinated will become an increasing part of those infected.
The state officials talked about providing better data so the media could better inform their public.
Things like relevance of co-morbidities for those who died, seeking immediate attention if symptoms include breathing problems and latest update on shortages of home testing kits.
No appointed questioners, defering to better qualified personnel when necessary and no ‘sugar coating.’
12 2
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January 10, 2022 2:01pm
dime

Pfizer say getting booster shots is the best thing you can do..

in other news:

“Dime declares buying products from his business is the best thing you can do to have a better life”
24 3
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January 10, 2022 2:02pm
I remember when

Queensland now sitting at around 95% Omicron covid total.
7 3
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January 10, 2022 2:12pm
Maggie Pie

THE BIG Question ON EVERYONES LIPS…..

‘Where is JACINDA LAUREL ARDERN? ‘

https://twitter.com/QuietKnight42/status/1480070971482464256
12 7
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January 10, 2022 2:31pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  At a guess….. on holiday and planning her wedding. Is there some other plausible answer?
  
  8 4
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  January 10, 2022 2:35pm
- lifesgood
  
  I couldn’t care less where she is. It’s lovely without her patronising nonsense. NZ feels a happier place.
  
  28 3
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  January 10, 2022 3:19pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  is someone missing her?
  
  19 4
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  January 10, 2022 3:28pm
  - Biscuit
    
    Far be it for me to Jacinda-defend, ha, but her employment package DOES entitle her to a few weeks of annual leave.
    
    3 9
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    January 10, 2022 4:47pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    “….is someone missing her?”
    
    Yeah – just like a headache.
    
    10 3
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    January 10, 2022 4:49pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The baby.
    
    6 3
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    January 10, 2022 5:23pm
Fletch

Oh Mylanta ?
Bob Saget, star of Full House, found dead in a hotel room….

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/full-house-star-bob-saget-65-found-dead-in-orlando-hotel-room/GXVHEM6UKP2JVMXVF2NS3TL7YQ/
6 3
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January 10, 2022 3:35pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING

ZB reporting homicide enquiry underway in Gisborne….. following death of 19-month-old baby who died today in Starship.

What can you say?
16 4
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January 10, 2022 3:52pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Just the tip of the iceberg, I suspect…
  
  A separate case:
  https://www.police.govt.nz/news/release/arrest-injured-baby-investigation-gisborne
  
  And it’s not just babies and kiddies who’ve been abused in Gisborne this year.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/watch-police-investigating-after-group-of-people-throw-dog-off-bridge-in-gisborne/VJ2O4HPAQI7MW56MTAEPRR2TJQ/
  
  11 1
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  January 10, 2022 5:44pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    O.M.G.
    
    Appears to be the usual suspects with the poor dog as well 🙁
    
    11 2
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    January 10, 2022 5:54pm
Biscuit

Have been watching the Dojovik ‘trial’ on Twitter.

It comes with a live feed on which ‘comments’ – seemingly subject to NO editing – can be made.

It is dismaying to see Novak’s countrymen use racist slurs against the (Harvard-trained) Government chief legal person, a Mr Tran, and – with nary a hint of embarrassment at their own country’s sad recent ventures into ethnic cleansing – to label the process as Australia vs that nice pure lilywhite Novak, heh heh.

I thought, watching the defence attorneys, that they had argued Novak’s case quite well.
Set 1 to Novak, you might say.
But the much-maligned Mr Tran has done a great job in setting out the case against Novak.
A set all, in my opinion…
9 3
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January 10, 2022 4:43pm
- Mike
  
  Many Serbs feel they were the main victims of the Yugoslav wars.
  
  5 1
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  January 10, 2022 5:55pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    Serbs feel they were the main victims
    
    Many non-Serbs feel the Serbs were the main cause.
    
    3 0
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    December 10, 2021 9:36pm
CAKE FACE1

I must say that it is refreshing that Pinky and Mr Hendy no longer seem to be on the news.

If we could add the “experts” Messrs Baker and Jackson to this list of missing in action, CAKE would be mightily relieved.
12 1
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January 10, 2022 5:10pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  You wrote too soon…
  She’s just been on Prime news
  
  7 1
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  January 10, 2022 5:47pm
  - lifesgood
    
    Uggggh!
    
    5 1
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    January 10, 2022 5:57pm
Maggie Pie

PLEASE let this be the last time Ross Taylor bats!!

Anything to shut that moron up on ZB that’s been filling-in for HDPA.

SHEESH!!
6 2
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January 10, 2022 5:25pm
- Biscuit
  
  Bad news, Maggie.
  
  I hear you Aucklanders are SO fond of Ross that a certain Tennis court in your neighbourhood is to be demolished to cater for a Statue of Liberty-style statue of the great man!
  
  8 0
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  January 10, 2022 5:44pm
  - Mike
    
    Is that because no one in Otahuhu can think of a famous local to commemorate?
    
    1 4
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    January 10, 2022 5:53pm
Surely Knott

Tech is offering scholarships to Maori and Pacifica. Why? The argument for Maori is indigenous/ treaty of Waitangi? So why Pacifica?

If however the reason for the race based scholarship which includes both Maori and Pacifica is instead because they are under represented in the tech sector then why can’t any nationality or race that’s under represented in the Nz tech sector apply? African? Middle Eastern? Eastern European? Aboriginal?
13 1
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January 10, 2022 5:46pm
greybeard

Let’s face it: Bangladesh couldn’t care less about the result of this 2nd ( and final ) test.
They came here to play the so-called “World Test Cricket Champions” on home soil, they beat them in the first of a 2-test series and can now go home knowing that they were up to the mark.
And I say, good on them !
7 0
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January 10, 2022 6:11pm
- Mike
  
  I think they do care, but perhaps didn’t expect their normal treatment in NZ to resume quite so brutally.
  Nice to see Boult reach his 300.
  
  2 0
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  January 10, 2022 6:23pm
Reid

Some[one] raises the cost of covid to the media. It was dimly received…

https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/095/397/714/original/18bf6577b27c5995.mp4
5 2
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January 10, 2022 6:20pm
CAKE FACE1

I don’t mix in Cindy cult circles, and I don’t understand these people.

As such, I’m wondering whether Cindy is retaining her devoted following, or if her fanbase is waning in their worship of the Cindy cult.

Any thoughts?
8 1
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January 10, 2022 6:42pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING NOW….

USA identifies first case of ‘Donkey Variant’

https://twitter.com/PapiTrumpo/status/1480336874648616965
5 2
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January 10, 2022 6:54pm
- Reid
  
  That’s interesting that he’s still got his Twitter account.
  
  One thing the left perception management crowd (aka their narrative management army) hate is ridicule, because it destroys their manufactured image aka narrative, in a heartbeat. Because humour like fear, cuts through the mind like a sword.
  
  So it’s going to be interesting to see how AOC’s perception management team who are clearly some of the best in the business to have taken someone like her who applied to an ad, to where she is now, react to this, from a user with a Trump parody account, which is obviously red flag to them.
  
  Bear in mind the orchestration of all the different media organs as they give you their take as this plays out. They’re the tell, if you’re interested in seeing the orchestra. For instance why does RadioNZ always use CNN etc correspondents. They’re all in the same orchestra.
  
  3 2
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  January 10, 2022 7:40pm
blue collar

[Deleted – even by school holiday standards that is pathetically juvenile stuff. A repeat and you will be on a ban. mod.]
1 0
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January 10, 2022 7:44pm
Fletch

Apparently Novak won, but the Aussie govt says they will likely cancel his visa anyway. It’s all BS and politics. o such thing as justice anymore.
4 2
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January 10, 2022 8:16pm
gorse

Yet another wasted right wing vote party formed. The New National Party.
1 2
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January 10, 2022 8:19pm
blue collar

Fair enough mod .
Djokovich let off !! Will they still let him play ….. or will the govt go nuclear .
Too embarrassing for brand Australia not to I reckon . More political capital lost in forcing the ban now than if they just relent with the judges call .
Who knows though
5 2
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January 10, 2022 8:39pm
- Reid
  
  Their capriciousness is off the charts.
  
  They are continuing to act as if everyone doesn’t know there isn’t a health crisis anymore.
  
  They act like they can make up any rule they like and they will get away with it.
  
  And they are being allowed to.
  
  And they seem to think no-one is watching them in real time do exactly that.
  
  3 2
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  January 10, 2022 9:02pm
NK

Morrison has to save face. That’s what Covid is about, it’s all political, nothing to do with doing the right thing and letting him stay.
4 4
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January 10, 2022 9:10pm

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