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January 2, 2022 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 02 January 2022

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General Debate

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Warren

The one thing I would like to know about the first person that tested positive to Omicron variant of Covid-19 is why we have not heard from our Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern about how DJ Robert Etheridge being the first person to bring the Covid Variant Omicron into New Zealand.
As a example of this can we go back to when Delta became relevant in New Zealand and the blame game that accompanied it especially the young Lass that our Prime Minister showed no remorse over berating this young lass and laying the blame firmly at her feet after Delta escaped our borders to infecthundreds of New Zealander’s.
So the question I ask don’t you find the silence deafening when it comes to one of Jacinda Ardern’s and her partner Clark Gayfords friends.
Again I find this offence by DJ Robert Etheridge a blatant act of disrespect to New Zealand and its population especially after being given dispensation three times this year alone,to enter New Zealand Quarantine system while other New Zealander’s can’t get home to see parents or family even when they are dying and given days to live.
I am also discussed in our Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern for allowing this to happen without addressing her involvement in allowing this person three times to travel into New Zealand when our own New Zealand Citizens don’t get the same treatment.
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January 2, 2022 8:00am
- kevn
  
  @Warren… I am also ‘disgusted’.
  
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  January 2, 2022 9:27am
  - Warren
    
    Thanks I will remember that next time I’m not the greatest at spelling or punctuation.
    
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    January 2, 2022 9:59am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      I beleive Udemy (online learning) has some great refresher courses.
      
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      January 2, 2022 2:57pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  I’m less harsh about DJD bringing in Omicron, because I wonder whether this is so. Its reported incubation period is three days; how is it that he passed the first two tests & didn’t test positive until day 9? You would think Ashley would have something to say about that.
  
  Totally agree re. criticism of DJD’s third time of entry. Spinning discs (or whatever DJs do) is waay down the list of things we need to import. Sorry, kids, but it’s just fluff.
  
  Ditto re Jaxxie’s silence on the matter. I’d like her more if she stuck up for her friend.
  
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  January 2, 2022 9:32am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Possibly a false positive test ? Query, anyone know how the determined what variant it was ? A special test maybe, because the standard PCR Covid test doesn’t distinguish between variants as far as I know.
    
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    January 2, 2022 10:35am
    - Pharmachick
      
      You need to sequence the virus to work out what the variant is. A ways back, all positives in NZ were sequenced, but that is $$. Not sure what the protocol for sequencing is in NZ now.
      
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      January 2, 2022 11:22am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Thanks, I presumed that they sequenced something from this fellow, but if they found enough to sequence it wasn’t a false positive though he may not have had any symptoms.
        
        There are also possibly some variant specific PCR tests, though slightly surprising that these were available in NZ already.
        
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        January 2, 2022 12:09pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        Ed, sequence-specific PCR tests would involve that the PCR primers cover the specific mutated section of the virus. That’s dead easy and we could run specific primers up for under $30 a throw in my lab tomorrow (if I was at work, which I am not right now). What you may not be aware of, is that there are literally dozens of variants – the lay public only hears about VoC or VoI (of concern, or of interest), there are many others that are [thankfully] very dull e.g. epsilon, omega etc). If the primers are specific, they would not recognize any other variant. So you’re in a catch 22 situation using PCR specific primers – better off to sequence as you get ALL of the information. ESR has all they need to do that, as do any number of labs at most universities in NZ. Hope that helps.
        
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        January 2, 2022 12:54pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Pharmachick: Much extra delay and cost with doing sequencing? Workable with thousands of daily cases needing sequencing?
        
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        January 2, 2022 4:29pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        @NZer in Exile – nah, the T-lag on a good lab for a sequence is c. 6 hrs once they receive the sample for a basic sequence, and about twice that for a deep sequence (that nobody really needs).
        
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        January 2, 2022 5:45pm
  - rouppe
    
    The pink haired one has been trying to say that Omicron incubation “could be” longer than Delta.
    
    Something smells really bad about the narrative
    
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    January 2, 2022 10:52am
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      It is clear that something does indeed smell really bad about the narrative, and the wider Covid narrative, and that, as time ticks by, more and more who once probably accepted everything at face value are awakening to the lies and obfuscations.
      
      The pressure is building on the public faces whose job it is to roll out the systems that will irrevocably change our lives for the worse. They don’t even believe what they are saying. Here is a short clip of a group of Boston politicians trying to sell greater governmental control over Covid passport access:
      
      “How to get booed into oblivion”
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZv059dGUW8
      
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      January 2, 2022 11:49am
    - alloytoo
      
      Amazing how how she suggested this the moment anyone with rudimentary math skills could deduce that the only place he could have caught it was MIQ.
      
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      January 2, 2022 1:37pm
    - Jim
      
      She must be getting her ‘scary’ data from Stuff and Nonsense
      
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      January 2, 2022 8:35pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I agree..
    
    This variant of Coronavirus has a short incubation time.
    
    The chap either caught the bug here in NZ in MIQ, or the positive test is a dud….
    
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    January 2, 2022 11:23am
    - DeepBlue
      
      The latter I think. Just bad timing for DJ and friends.
      
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      January 2, 2022 12:43pm
- Marcus Vinicius
  
  The only thing I can recall was Jacinda posting on social media some recipe or another on Xmas eve. Haven’t noticed anything since.
  
  I surmise that Chippy has this DJ Dimension fiasco under control?? (joke)
  
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  January 2, 2022 10:01am
  - Scooter
    
    Another one with her and Gayford’s fishing tackle?
    
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    January 2, 2022 11:03am
- Prince
  
  I still refuse to buy frozen peas after our scientist PM fingered the frozen felon for introducing Covid here in the first place.
  
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  January 2, 2022 10:24am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    And I refuse to touch rubbish-tin lids, or lift buttons…
    
    It’s not as if our experts could have completely misunderstood the transmission route of a respiratory virus, could they?
    
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    January 2, 2022 11:25am
- The Other Enoch
  
  Very good points raised here. I too am interested to hear from the pulpit of truth. I posited the question to Stuff(ed) and challenged them to investigate, To date no sign of a response nor has my comment passed Stuff(ed) moderators. The stench of hypocrisy is overwhelming here.
  
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  January 2, 2022 10:35am
- Gravelroad
  
  Come on Warren, get with it man – our de facto Prime Minister is as cool a celebrity you will find in Auckland.
  He has influence.
  He has the power.
  Chicks in KFC don’t account for much in his glitter ball world.
  
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  January 2, 2022 10:37am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  It’s okay for the DJ to come in three times under the critical worker category – @clintsmith said so…
  
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  January 2, 2022 10:47am
  - pdm
    
    Bloody hell Suze.
    
    Is Jacinda doing the `Hey Clint’ thing now?
    
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    January 2, 2022 11:37am
  - I remember when
    
    Are we missing the real measure with the British DJ?
    What events have been cancelled with regular monotony during the ‘Covid Years.’
    The answer is, of course, entertainment in all of its guises.
    So the fact that a British DJ has been able to visit and perform on three tours during the period, shows that opportunities to be entertained abounded.
    It’s all a matter of perception.
    See there wasn’t that much disruption.
    
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    January 2, 2022 2:11pm
- Scooter
  
  She’ll be laying low now till parliament resumes, hoping it’ll all be a distant memory. Being front and center is only when it suits her.
  
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  January 2, 2022 10:48am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Bro – leave Cindy alone. She is busy getting married. Move on.
  
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  January 2, 2022 11:13am
  - igm
    
    She can’t find a venue!
    
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    January 2, 2022 1:11pm
- Ra Henare
  
  I am disgusted that both the DJ and the AIr NZ Crew, diagnosed with the very infectious Oh My Cron did not infect anyone else !!!
  
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  January 2, 2022 1:35pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Braindead MSM Media covering up and cheer-leading for her? Tick
  
  Mostly lefty infested Big Tech cheer-leading, covering up, censoring and “fact-checking”(IE disingenunous propagandising) for her? Tick
  
  Taxpayer funded propaganda units cheer-leading and covering for her? Tick
  
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  January 2, 2022 3:06pm
Yvette

[Wellington’s] rainbow first appeared in 2018 and this is the first time it is being repainted, at a cost of $17,500.

Scoop, Wednesday, 28 March 2018, providing the earlier cost that RNZ this morning, in their whole item crucially doesn’t mention –

Wellington City Council provided the following estimate of the crossing’s costs (based on estimates from initial contractor discussions):

• $10,000 Road resurfacing (including site establishment, installation of speed cushion and white line marking reinstatement)
• $8,500 Road painting works (including primer, 2 topcoats and slip resistance coat for main design)
• $3,000 Umbrella sculpture refurbishment
• $12,000 Traffic Management (road closure for 3 – 4 nights for resurfacing and painting works)
• $6,700 Project contingency 20%

• $40,200 Total

Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director Jordan Williams says, “Celia-Wade Brown had hercycleway, Dunedin has its Ed Sheeran mural, Hamilton’s mayor wanted a Council name change. Now Justin Lester wants a rainbow crossing.”
“We shouldn’t be throwing money at ‘nice-to-haves’ when basic services like wastewater and transport are strained.”

Thinks – How in fact does “3 Waters” prevent Councils spending taxpayer funds on silly shit like this instead of upgrading sewers (to handle the other real shit) and century-old exploding water mains, and so throwing themselves into Mahuta’s hands.
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January 2, 2022 8:03am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  What a waste of money.
  
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  January 2, 2022 9:33am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I think it’s a colourful enhancement of the Cuba Street vibe.
  
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  January 2, 2022 9:46am
  - Ed Snack
    
    It achieves its purpose, acting as a deflection to take in the low info Labour voters who generally enjoy spending other peoples money on pointless displays.
    
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    January 2, 2022 10:37am
  - rouppe
    
    Sure.
    
    But with council wailing about lack of money, and putting up rates again, I’d expect council to start dispensing with this sort of expense in favour of higher priority items.
    
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    January 2, 2022 10:56am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    It is Mike, to be sure. But so would a nightly rainbow laser display. Or sponsoring rainbow tshirts for every rate payer who wants one.
    
    The question is, should the Council (i.e. ratepayers) be funding it?
    
    If it’s that important to the “rainbow community” & friends, perhaps the Council could promise to make the colourful pedestrian crossing happen subject to crowd funding.
    
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    January 2, 2022 6:31pm
- Squeek
  
  Traffic management looks to be the best business to be in, judging by this cost breakdown. A few late nights out with the cone truck and a couple of sets of hi viz.
  
  Aren’t councils stupid the way they spend other people’s money.
  
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  January 2, 2022 2:41pm
Truman lodge

We must stamp out omicron at all costs. Kiwis are quite happy with delta. The rest of the world will soon have omicron as the major varient. But we must keep delta and stop omicron at all costs.

Go hard Go early..
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January 2, 2022 8:04am
Yvette

Coronavirus: 82 percent of vaxxed Kiwis eligible for booster by end of February – Bloomfield

Can Bloomfield explain, then, Why do so many of us have Vaccination Passes with an Expiry Date in May.
Why, exactly. is that the case?
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January 2, 2022 8:04am
- emmess
  
  Shhhhh don’t tell the idiots
  
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  January 2, 2022 9:22am
- KevO'Brien
  
  So Ardern can work on her WEF project the vaccine pass mods.
  
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  January 2, 2022 9:25am
- oc35
  
  The vaccine passes have an expiry date of 6 months from when printed instead of last vacc. Dumb dumb dumb.
  
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  January 2, 2022 9:37am
  - DeepBlue
    
    They seem to have closed the loophole, so it is now 6 months from when first downloaded, not resetting 6 months for each download.
    
    I wonder what happens after the booster, surely you would download again and get a further 6 months.//
    
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    January 2, 2022 10:26am
    - Mike H S
      
      FYI my original Covid Pass expired on 22 May 22. My second jab was on 28 May 21 so just less than six months later. I had my third jab on 6 Dec 21. That extended my Vac Pass by ten days to 1 Jun 22.
      
      I can’t fathom out any logic to it at all.
      
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      January 2, 2022 6:19pm
  - Prince
    
    The mad leading the incompetent. All those new ‘civil servants’ running around causing mayhem.
    
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    January 2, 2022 10:29am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Shhhh. Don’t ask inconvenient questions that have no plausible response that doesn’t make the princess and her “experts” look like irrational idiots. Join the “team”.
    
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    January 2, 2022 10:43am
- alloytoo
  
  “Can Bloomfield explain, then, Why do so many of us have Vaccination Passes with an Expiry Date in May.”
  
  Unpublished appendices to Pfizer agreement?
  
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  January 2, 2022 1:43pm
- Jim
  
  Because they knew the ‘first’ booster would be required before they expire. Repeat after me …..
  Be Kind, Team of 4.5M and the unclean, Vac to the Max, Hard and Early, Short and Sharp ….and again
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:30pm
Benedict Yu

This incident supports my observations in Christchurch. There has been a noticeable increase in anti social behaviour by idiotic men in idiotic cars.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/127419527/boy-racers-allegedly-punch-local-resident-in-new-years-eve-altercation

This would be so easy to fix. Have a blitz where the police arrest them all and impound and destroy the cars. A few times doing that and it would stop.
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January 2, 2022 8:05am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Good idea Ben but do you really think that Cuddles Coster is going to go along with that?
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:08am
  - pdm
    
    Ben – first of all Poto would have to tell Coster the Imposter to move on them.
    
    Unless the boy racers are sons of, or are themselves, white `rich pricks’ that is not going to happen.
    
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    January 2, 2022 8:24am
    - oc35
      
      Better to get Coster to move on!
      
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      January 2, 2022 9:38am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Coster would want to supply the cars
    
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    January 2, 2022 8:34am
    - cmm
      
      I know you jest, but it would be quite plausible that Coster would send his cops to check WOFs armed with a whole lot of free WOF vouchers – and hand them out to anyone that didn’t have a WOF.
      
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      January 2, 2022 8:54am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Well, Jaspinda keeps saying ‘be kind’
        
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        January 2, 2022 9:07am
      - kowtow
        
        For many years now taxpayers have been stumping up to pay for the costs associated with getting certain people their drivers licenses .
        
        All part of the Nanny State taking over responsibility for personal affairs.
        
        But it creates a culture .
        
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        January 2, 2022 11:13am
    - Jade Warrior
      
      Perhaps the government might want to implement a car buy back scheme for boy racers …
      
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      January 2, 2022 8:57am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        How much for just a car door?
        Remember sawn off shotgun barrels?
        
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        January 2, 2022 9:51am
  - jgw739
    
    Crusher Coster?
    
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    January 2, 2022 9:28am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    What about buying electric cars for them at tax payer expenses? At least it will be environmentally friendly? Just sayin….
    
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    January 2, 2022 11:16am
- Nickc2
  
  The Govt wouldn’t support it and the Police won’t do it. National tried it (Crusher Collins) and there was a public outcry.
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:12am
  - backster
    
    You mean a Public Outcry of support for Collins.
    
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    January 2, 2022 9:15am
    - Nickc2
      
      YES, sorry.
      
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      January 2, 2022 9:38am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Agree except auction off the cars and use the money for something useful. Some of the miscreants that lost their beloved vehicles would probably bid to get them back.
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:13am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yup, use the money for another climate change summit
    
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    January 2, 2022 9:52am
- Ruahine
  
  Judith Collins wanted to do this some years back. The whingeing and the abuse she got from all the lefty criminal huggers was appalling. many of the same criminal huggers and supporters are your masters now. Do not expect any change.
  Anyway it was probably the silly old fools fault for interfering with the ‘criminals’ fun.
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:17am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Oh Benedict, don’t you recall we already had a minister of police who was going to destroy the cars? She even gained a powerful political nickname for it ‘Crusher’, despite not managing to crush a single car.
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:21am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    And your point is what? Because some politician failed several years ago, we should put up with these idiots.
    
    They should be arrested, charged with dangerous driving, and have their cars confiscated.
    
    I have repeated it in case you did not get it the first time. If you want to mount a cogent defence of this behaviour, I will respond.
    
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    January 2, 2022 9:20am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      You might have to find someone else to respond to your strawman demand that I ‘mount a cogent defence of this behaviour’, as all I pointed out that there is a history of rhetoric about these kinds of things producing no results.
      Politicians have a well-established pattern of talking tough about all sorts of criminal behaviour – boy racers, gang fortifications, methamphetamine imports, etc – and then either doing nothing at all or introducing harsh-sounding measures that fail in practice.
      
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      January 2, 2022 9:56am
      - fisho
        
        Unfortunately, due to a biased media even the best ideas can be derailed by a small but noisy minority of lefty twats.
        
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        January 2, 2022 12:03pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Miken, the thinking you employ on crime directly leads to the creation of lawless shit-holes where the least powerful are most likely to end up victims.
        
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        January 2, 2022 4:34pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Oh piss off milkweed. every second troll-post of yours demands somebody provide proof or evidence of something – because you’re too lazy or stupid to find it yourself.
        
        Pot, meet kettle.
        
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        January 3, 2022 12:32am
  - jgw739
    
    Of note, there were actually three cars crushed Mike
    
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    January 2, 2022 9:32am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Success!
      
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      January 2, 2022 9:49am
      - rouppe
        
        About the same number as the percentage of the 100,000 kiwi build houses Labour promised to build
        
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        January 2, 2022 11:04am
      - Local Miller
        
        Actually, yes it was a success. It only took 3 cars being crushed to stop virtually ALL boy racer in incidents, at least in high risk areas.
        Success isn’t measured by the number of cars crushed, but by the impact the law has on bad behaviour.
        The left use the same stupid logic WRT 3-Strikes. “There are only a few people being held on 3-Strike crimes, so the law isn’t working!” This is BS, the fact that crimes are restraining them selves and not committing as may 3-Strikes crimes show the law is doing exactly what it was designed to do, reduce serious crime.
        
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        January 2, 2022 11:48am
  - David Garrett
    
    What a dreary – and dishonest – fellow ur Milky…when u next venture up here do visit MOTAT…the very first car crushed pursuant to that law is an an exhibit there…granted there are very few others…the little scrotes got the message fairly quickly
    
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    January 2, 2022 2:09pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  You would think CCTV images would help
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:27am
- Inandout
  
  BY, late January last year we stayed in a BnB in Manchester St by a set of lights. I kid you not the hoons were racing along that street until daylight, and the ‘doof doof’ from their car stereos was worse when they were waiting at the lights. Add to this temperatures of 30 degrees and it made for a shitty sleepless night. So it looks like the hoons are still alive and well.
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:29am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Judith only crushed one car wasn’t it? And that reduced the problem greatly. Why are our police so soft now?
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:39am
- H. Upmann
  
  Where is Crusher Collins when most needed?
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:48am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    She is doing science and research under the guidance of uncle Luxon.
    
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    January 2, 2022 11:17am
- cmm
  
  It would be much more effective if the plods actually stood up and did their job.
  
  Incidents like the people hooning around Auckland with their motor bikes while the plod stood by embolden the dickheads.
  
  Now we also have a whole lot of other watered down policies:
  * No pursuit.
  * Police in South Auckland having to phone in before arresting.
  * Far more catch and release.
  * Don’t intervene in crowds, rather try to monitor the situation (be that gangs or dirt bikers).
  
  Is it any wonder that with the cops tied up in rolls of red duct tape that the criminal element feel more emboldened?
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:52am
  - Hollyfield
    
    I saw a group of these riders in early August. It was around 6pm, dark, and we were stopped at a red traffic light at a crossroads. We were waiting to turn right, and the traffic perpendicular to us was going. Then we got the green arrow. As I moved forward, a group of bikes came from opposite us where they had been waiting at their red light – they would have still had a red light as we had the green arrow, but they would have seen the perpendicular traffic now had red, and they deliberately went through their own red light to assert their dominance. We all just had to wait while a group of about 30 bikes went through the intersection, they did not have helmets, they had bandanas tied across their faces, and they did wheelies as they went past our cars. Blatant disregard for the law, for society – and basically just showing their arrogance and demonstrating they are in control and they will do whatever they like.
    
    I’ve stumbled across the youtube channel of a former mafia “made guy” from New York. His father was an underboss and was jailed for 50 years in the 60s/70s, and then this man was a captain and was jailed for 10 years in the 80s. He found God in prison, and changed his life. He now speaks out against crime, gangs and drugs, saying they all lead to harm and will destroy your own life. In one of his videos he’s asked what changed in the 80s that made members of the mafia start to give evidence in court against each other. He says the police started to get tough, and for the first time individuals in the mafia started to fear the police more than they feared the mafia hierarchy, so they started to cooperate with the police. He says a lot more than that of course, but the parallels with what he was saying and with gangs in NZ now were just incredible.
    
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    January 2, 2022 9:30am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Yep the lefties pushing their soft on on crime delusions slink away to live in safe areas while leaving the plebs to get assaulted, raped and murdered.
      
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      January 2, 2022 5:09pm
  - Jim
    
    With this kind of pathetic weak policing I believe NZ is only a short jump away from gang mobs breaking into jewellery shops like in the US. Sadly NZ society seems to be quickly degenerating and leaving the law abiding citizens to face the abuse and violence.
    
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    January 2, 2022 8:53pm
- MCōs
  
  Boy racers, like gangs and a myriad of other anti social problems, have been around for quite some time and nobody has come up with effective solutions to the problems no matter how much foot stamping while in opposition.
  Everyone remembers Judith Collins was going to crunch the boy racers cars and nothing happened.
  The problem is of course a car can’t be destroyed without the owner being convicted of something.
  
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  January 2, 2022 9:15am
  - cmm
    
    The world is not black and white, it is various shades of grey.
    
    Certainly there have always been criminals, gangs and boy racers.
    
    However, have they ever felt the impunity they do today?
    
    Have the cops ever stood around in the past watching illegal, dangerous and unacceptable behaviour going on in front of them?
    
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    January 2, 2022 10:57am
    - Jim
      
      The irony is just try doing 110kmh on SH1 in a new Euro car and see what you get….blue lights before you get 50km.
      
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      January 2, 2022 8:56pm
  - rouppe
    
    Well Collins provided for cars to be crushed, it was the justice system that failed to use it.
    
    Much like Three Strikes
    
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    January 2, 2022 11:08am
  - david
    
    I get the impression that these “ bikies” are not your traditional boy racers but are a new phenomenon emboldened by the softly softly non-combative stance of the police towards bikie gangs in particular and are more rebels looking for a cause. Because they can.
    It is a sad truth that whenever authority draws a line, there will be some who want to cross it no matter how generously or constrictive the line has been drawn.
    Rules are worthless unless they are enforced.
    
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    January 2, 2022 11:25am
    - OTGO
      
      They are the entry level gang bangers commonly known as “The Killer Bees”.
      
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      January 2, 2022 1:48pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    One possible solution is to provide a venue that can sort of allow this sort of thing to happen away from the public and in some sort of relative safety. For quite a few, that would be satisfying enough. Biggest problem might be that the safety wowsers would make it so restrictive that no one would use it and so it would not actually work.
    
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    January 2, 2022 12:05pm
- Nukuleka
  
  Judith Collins as Minister of Police bravely took this approach of course, and was thereafter labeled by the media as Crusher Collins, a term that would be used against her forever after by the same media. The likes of Coster and Poto Williams are more concerned about the ‘safety’ of the boy racers than that of the general public.
  
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  January 2, 2022 9:23am
- Paulus
  
  Crusher was demonised for such a suggestion.
  Ask the media !
  
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  January 2, 2022 10:21am
- Prince
  
  Likely a judge would reprimand the police and instruct new cars to be given to the ratbags.
  
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  January 2, 2022 10:30am
- Ed Snack
  
  Maybe crush the cars in public, and possibly some politician could make a special nickname for themselves in doing so ? Bound to be popular, no ?
  
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  January 2, 2022 10:38am
- NZer In Exile
  
  “There has been a noticeable increase in anti social behaviour by idiotic men in idiotic cars.”
  
  Be thankful you don’t live in Melbourne. A city full of petrol head wankers!
  
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  January 2, 2022 2:39pm
NK

Can anyone answer this question: If you’re vaccinated and contract the virus, is your version of the virus weaker,? Do if you transmit it, will you transmit a weaker strain, or the normal strain?

I’m trying to figure out the efficacy of the vaccine as against projecting others, not yourself.

TIA.
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January 2, 2022 8:14am
- Fishing in the dark
  
  No one of these so-called expert do know this or if they do know then they only release the corrupted government’s statement.
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:21am
  - mawm
    
    NK – if you get infected with the virus (as opposed to just having some viral protein in your nose) and have symptoms it means that the virus has escaped your antibodies formed by the vaccine and you will be replicating clones of that virus. As you might have a lesser illness there must be some viral inhibition by your antibodies. Your virus naturally tries to survive and spread, and as its structure can change (mutate) through faulty transcription, one of these mutations might allow less interference by your vaccines antibodies. Sometimes this gets spread to the wider population instead of just the original virus you were infected with. This is how variants are created and also why some virologists/vaccinologists are against vaccinating the wider population during a pandemic.
    
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    January 2, 2022 12:11pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  I think I can answer those questions.
  
  If you are vaccinated and are infected, you have the same virus as if you were not vaccinated. It is not ‘weaker’. But the vaccine will significantly reduce the probability that you will become seriously ill. (And in omicron it seems that the prevalence of serious illness is about one third that of Delta)
  
  If you are vaccinated, and pass the virus on, you are transmitting the full deal. You will probably have milder symptoms and have those for a shorter period. But if you are vaccinated and symptomatic you are still highly infectious.
  
  So, hypothetically… You are vaccinated and have Delta. You are mildly ill. You sneeze on an unvaccinated vulnerable person. That person could become seriously ill and die. You have NOT transmitted a ‘weak version’ of the virus.
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:26am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    It is also reported that the vaccine may enhance the distress you occur and cause catastrophic illnesses like heart failure to occur. The vaccination leaves the whole body in a new cellular state.
    Taking it further, the tests now are being questioned too as being a delivery mechanism.
    With money taking precedence over honesty by the suppliers it’s watch out for yourself. With the increasing reports of excessive medical cases there is justification for concern.
    
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    January 2, 2022 9:37am
    - rouppe
      
      Could you expand on your assertion that “The vaccination leaves the whole body in a new cellular state.”
      
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      January 2, 2022 11:10am
    - rouppe
      
      Still waiting
      
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      January 2, 2022 3:04pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Not sneezing on them Benedict, that isn’t a significant source of transmission via fomites. The main source is simply in the extremely small aerosolised particles. So just breathing is perfectly capable of producing an infectious cloud, but typically one does need to inhale a significant dose. That’s why transmission is essentially exclusively indoors where there is not significant ventilation. Also explains why masks of the type typically worn by 99% of people have zero impact on transmission whereas they would stop the larger particles as generated by a sneeze or cough.
    
    As I read it, Omicron gains its extra infectivity by being able to infect people higher up the respiratory tract, thus needing a reduced “dose”. With the earlier variants infection occurs deep in the bronchial system and there are quite effective defences (mucosal etc) to prevent small amounts getting through. The infection higher up is also why the symptoms change, cold viruses infect in similar areas and so the symptoms are more similar. Without the same lung level infection there are fewer complications, and it is those deep lung complications that cause most of the Covid deaths.
    
    This info may of course change as further research comes out.
    
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    January 2, 2022 10:47am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    The odds of that person becoming seriously ill and dying are very, very small. Unless they have serious underlying health issues, are aged or obese. Then they should isolate, socially distance and have a think about whether their situation warrants a risk when taking an experimental procedure that has no long term safety data. Or if it’s an option, think about changing their lifestyle so they are at less risk.
    Think especially hard when it comes to boosters which have zero available safety data.
    
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    January 2, 2022 10:50am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      “Unless they have serious underlying health issues, are aged or obese.”
      
      Those groups combined would be at least 50 percent of the population.
      
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      January 2, 2022 12:04pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        With covid having an IFR between 0.15% and 0.5%, (pre the arrival of “vaccines”) – if the numbers of seriously vulnerable are indeed at least 50% then we should have had many more deaths that the 50 or so “with” covid that we’ve had in NZ.
        More than half of these deaths – 27 – were pre vaccination so that can’t be the reason for the low numbers.
        Even so, at most it means 50% of the population should be encouraged to consider having the experimental jab. Those who think they are at risk. If the vaccine works they’ll be protected. But we should never be mandating, bullying and coercing people to take something they don’t want, and we should never have touched anyone under 18.
        
        Clear and honest information from the beginning and free choice would have been a much better way of approaching this. No wonder there is so much negativity about the place.
        
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        January 2, 2022 12:31pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        That makes no sense. We have had few COVID deaths in New Zealand because we have had very few cases of COVID in New Zealand, compared to most countries in the world.
        
        I don’t have any patience with people who trivialise the impact of the pandemic. Those scenes you saw of overrun hospitals in Spain, Brazil, and Portugal, accompanied by about 200, 000 dead people, well they were real.
        
        Omicron is likely to end things. But when Delta was around, anyone older than 40 who did not get vaccinated was stupid. It is that simple.
        
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        January 2, 2022 1:45pm
      - mawm
        
        Benedict – I think I’d rather give a miss on that period, the first 14 days, post vaccine which makes me more vulnerable to the virus, the difficult to identify but certainly happening heart attacks in the over 40’s, death, the aneurysms (aortic and cerebral), the micro thrombi affecting cerebral function and causing neurological disasters, and affecting the function of other organs, the reactivation of intracellular viruses – CMV, Herpes zoster, etc, the increased risk of cancer, the autoimmune problems like Guillaine-Barre and the fact that the vaccine does not prevent death from covid, be it delta or other, and as a well over 40 year old takes my chances on what I think is a positive risk/benefit for me.
        
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        January 2, 2022 3:06pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        We’ve had nearly 15,000 cases in NZ according to MoH. But let’s say the jabs are effective and we go back to pre vaccine days:
        
        “the pandemic first peaked in early April 2020, with 89 new cases recorded per day and 929 active cases.”
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_New_Zealand
        
        929 active cases and according to your estimation, over 50% are highly vulnerable. That makes close to 500 people in NZ at high risk in April 2020. We had a total of 27 deaths 5 who either tested negative or weren’t tested at all.
        That leaves 22 confirmed as “covid deaths”. Of those, most had at least 2 serious comorbidities. Average age was 82 or 83. Death is sad but these deaths weren’t unusual and mostly not unexpected.
        
        “I don’t have any patience with people who trivialise the impact of the pandemic. Those scenes you saw of overrun hospitals in Spain, Brazil, and Portugal, accompanied by about 200, 000 dead people, well they were real.”
        
        Nobody is trivialising the danger of covid to some. But you do not know what was real and what wasn’t. We’ve been subjected to lies and statistical manipulation constantly. The mass graves in NY were a lie. The nightingale hospitals were empty. The NY hospital ship never saw a patient. Definitions of deaths and cases were manipulated.
        It makes it hard to trust anything we are told.
        Even in NZ’s small sample group we know of one shot dead who became a “covid” stat. I’ve covered the other deaths last year above.
        Of those who died in 2021, all were reported as died “with” covid. It’s meaningless data without all the medical information being available.
        
        Ultimately the only stats that can be relied on are all cause mortality.
        I’ve quoted Eugyppius blog frequently because it appears to make much sense. Please read through it and let me know your thoughts on whether it is accurate or not. I appreciate your ability to comprehend data, it is better than mine. I’m doing my best and I don’t fight this thing for fun or mischief.
        
        “…….our novel pharmaceutical products reduce the severity of symptoms and the risk of severe outcome from Corona infection. In particular, they move deaths out of the Corona column, but they do not have substantial effects on all-cause mortality.”
        
        It looks like they may even agree with your over 40 statement. Not got omicron though.
        
        “…….side effects outweigh the risks of SARS-2 infection for everyone under 40; for those in good health facing the vastly milder Omicron, there is really no reason to be vaccinated. The second dose of Moderna is particularly dangerous for young men.”
        
        https://eugyppius.substack.com/p/sars-cov-2-loves-the-vaccines
        
        Benedict we’ve been lied to repeatedly for 2 years.
        You might be losing patience with people who you perceive as trivialising this. I’m not trivialising anything, protect the vulnerable. If you’re concerned get the jab, but do at least a bit of research first.
        I’m critical of the response to covid it and I’m losing patience with people who can’t or won’t see that the long term physical, mental and economic damage being wrought by government policies is doing more damage and killing many more than the virus ever could. It will take decades to repair – if it ever can be. “3 weeks to flatten the curve.” Yeah right. The full extent may not be known for decades.
        
        I don’t like the position I’m in. We’ve been lied to, coerced, bullied and manipulated so much in the last couple of years it has destroyed my trust in institutions I once respected, particularly medical. I don’t want to question taking a treatment, but the more we’ve been pushed and browbeaten the less the chances of me taking it. I do not trust the government. That might ultimately cost me my health or my life. So be it. I can only work with the information I have and what I’ve seen so far gives me no confidence whatsoever. But mainly I’m worried about the future for kids and grandkids. Governments have stripped civil liberties at an alarming rate and they rarely give up power easily.
        
        The numbers don’t say pandemic. No matter how many times they change the definition of words. We’ll see how 2022 pans out.
        
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        January 2, 2022 3:19pm
      - Spoff
        
        Spain overall death rate /1000:
        2022 9.410
        2021 9.312
        2020 9.213
        2019 9.115
        2018 9.017
        Brazil:
        2022 6.759
        2021 6.674
        2020 6.588
        2019 6.503
        2018 6.417
        Portugal:
        2022 11.035
        2021 10.924
        2020 10.813
        2019 10.702
        2018 10.591
        http://www.macrotrends.net/
        
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        January 2, 2022 8:34pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Here Benedict. More evidence of the statistical bullshit you and everyone else has been subjected to for the last 2 years. You’ve been conned. So has most of the planet. Matt Taibbi, Glenn Greenwald. Suddenly they “get it”. People have been explaining this shit for 18 months and been ridiculed for it. It’s as true now as it was then.
        
        https://twitter.com/consent_factory/status/1476972357210226693?s=20
        
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        January 2, 2022 8:53pm
- fredonas
  
  In theory, your immune system contains antibodies created in response to the vaccine and responds earlier when it encounters the actual virus so you should experience less severe symptoms than if you were unvaccinated. In theory. There are claims that the current mRNA “vaccines” are ineffective against the new omicron strain as they target a part of the spike protein that omicron does not contain. Time will tell.
  In terms of transmission, you will pass on the version that you caught and that the cells in your body are being co-opted to replicate. Many viruses mutate quickly so you may pass on a slightly different version of the virus that you caught.
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:26am
  - Ed Snack
    
    The current mRNA vaccines (and I think the non-mRNA like J&J and AZ) actually encode for a modified version of the S protein, not the original complete S protein.
    
    This modified form excludes the ACE2 binding domain to prevent it interfering in processes that use that receptor. In testing the modified S protein does generate antibodies.
    
    I have this theory that a chunk of those antibodies are actually against a part of the S protein that is normally encapsulated in the viral envelope, hence those antibodies do not react strongly against the whole virus as it infects, but they do react much more effectively against copies of the protein as they are manufactured by cells after infection. Hence the vaccines do not prevent infection but do reduce the severity of symptoms by suppressing replication.
    
    If infected, a person generates antibodies against a range of viral proteins including against the external parts of the S protein, thus “natural” immunity is far better at preventing infection as it acts on the virus itself, and also protects better through multiple modes of action against a range of viral proteins, not just the S protein.
    
    And as a last though, in vitrio Ivermectin acts in multiple ways also, it binds to both the ACE2 receptor AND the S protein on the virus thus reducing infection, it acts as a protease inhibitor thus blocking viral assembly, and also binds to and inhibits the viral N protein, again blocking replication. That is the theoretical basis for believing that Ivermectin is an effective treatment to reduce infection and reduce replication.
    
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    January 2, 2022 10:57am
    - Pharmachick
      
      Well said
      
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      January 2, 2022 11:36am
      - Pharmachick
        
        PS Ivermectin doesn’t work, but your theoretical basis is correct. Thing is “in theory” and “in practice” are [often] two different things.
        
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        January 2, 2022 11:44am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Pharma chick, in theory, theory and practice are the same, in practice they are different, as the saying goes.
        
        I happen to think that the meta study of the 30-40 known mostly small scale Ivermectin trials shows an unmistakeable significant effect way beyond statistical significance. Though of course such meta studies have their weaknesses and one can argue that the definite study has not yet been made. But then my question would be why hasn’t a defining study been carried out ? There is enough theory and actual trials to at least suggest a positive effect, it is extremely safe, and dirt cheap. Why would people NOT want to find out if it does work ?
        
        The evidence we have so far from the few places that have publicly (or semi-publicly) used Ivermectin like Uttar Pradesh (and not officially but allowed as a self prescription – Japan) is further evidence worth investigating.
        
        Why not send a small ( and most importantly open minded) team to review what Uttar Pradesh is doing, to see if the results are indeed as reported (almost zero Covid cases, hospitalisations, and deaths, in a population of 240 Million with a 5-10% vaccination rate) and if legitimate, follow their lead.
        
        Surely no one would be opposed to a treatment that offered even a 10% reduction in hospitalisation, let alone an 80-90% one ?
        
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        January 2, 2022 12:02pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        You can’t say “Ivermectin doesn’t work” or you finish up with as much credibility as Wiles or Baker. You need to support such a simplistic statement with evidence and data. Otherwise it’s a nonsense statement.
        
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        January 2, 2022 12:34pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        @Ed, I know one of the people in charge of the RECOVERY study. Ivermectin was included as an arm in 2020. The arm was shut down due to lack of efficacy. The studies you reference are all small, under powered and have dubious analyses.
        
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        January 2, 2022 12:34pm
      - fredonas
        
        “Surely no one would be opposed to a treatment…”
        If you were “big pharma” raking in billions in profits from your “vaccines” or their paid stooges in government and the compliant MSM, you would be very opposed to a cheaper alternative treatment.
        Also you wouldn’t have been given FDA emergency use authorisation as legally (in the US) this can’t be granted if effective alternative treatments exist. So you would need to orchestrate a intensive media campaign to discredit other effective treatments as “horse de-wormer” or “fish tank cleaner”
        
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        January 2, 2022 12:36pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        @Clan you can say whatever you want about my credibility. Almost everyone here knows who I am and what I do for a living. I’ll take your jab (pun intended), and I’m only sorry I allowed myself to be drawn into this crap for the umpteenth time after stepping away from it months ago.
        
        I suppose you’ve been “doing your own research”. No matter how much you Google, it doesn’t trump (pun intended) 10 years of education and then 20+ years in the trade, including Ed’s own admission that these were all small studies with no power –> effectively useless. And don’t get me started about the frenchman that made up data. But, you know: you do you, boo.
        
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        January 2, 2022 12:44pm
      - Man Among the Ruins
        
        Putting clearly fallacious arguments from authority aside, as a self-promoted “Pharmachick,” would you like to disclose or deny any affiliation with or collaboration with what is known as Big Pharma? I’d imagine your funding has to come from somewhere, and it’s a fairly established practice for industries to fund research activity in various academic institutions.
        
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        January 2, 2022 1:23pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Pharmachick my comment re your credibility was clearly in reference to your comment. I have no idea and no interest in your “credentials”. You made a bland statement of fact without a single reference to support it. No matter how “superior” your knowledge is to mine, what I said re your comment having no credibility is accurate. Unless you support it with something other than your opinion.
        
        As for your smear about a “frenchman”, say what you have to say and who you are saying it about. I didn’t mention anyone from France.
        There are many around the world opposing the official narrative with qualifications and experience that would leave yours in the dust. That doesn’t mean I won’t look at what you have to say and consider it. But because “you say so” means nothing on it’s own.
        Yes I do “google” among other things, I sold my collection of Encyclopedia Britannicas a few years ago, took up too much room in the tiny house. So apologies if my source of data isn’t up to yours.
        
        If you have any data or evidence to present do so. That’s what I like to look at. Not interested in self promotion or ad hominem. Present your case to support your claim.
        
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        January 2, 2022 1:49pm
      - Spoff
        
        Pharmachick
        Please link to the 2020 Recovery study. I have a feeling you are missing a very salient point which has been cleared up many times since.
        
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        January 2, 2022 1:51pm
      - mawm
        
        Pharmachick – I think you are mistaken about the Ivermectin. It appears that it was never in the study. Maybe you are confusing it with Hydroxychloroquine which was removed.
        
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        January 2, 2022 3:22pm
      - Okahu
        
        Holy fuck man of ruin. You wish now to impugn pharmachick because she has expert knowledge in the most pertinent field? At the same time having happily crawled deeply, obsequiously up the arses of so many of the “I saw this on my twit feed crowd” that gather here? The instant ‘scientists’ that have popped up here to report their ‘findings’?
        
        I’m afraid you rather sum up the anti-intellectual element that has sadly taken over the right. Though your rehashing of Jordan Peterson recently perhaps means you can believe some from the ivory tower provided they say what you already ‘believe’.
        
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        January 2, 2022 3:43pm
      - Man Among the Ruins
        
        Calm down buddy: have another toke, you clearly need it. I simply asked Pharmachick to be open about any conflicts of interest she may or may not have (which she hasn’t done yet). I fail to see what your irrelevant tangent about Jordan Peterson (who is clever, but prone to incoherent rambling, and who I haven’t taken much notice of since about 2017) has to do with who typically funds pharmaceutical research at Canadian universities.
        
        Your white knighting and straw manning aside, given that, from my experience, you’ve never said anything even approaching what I would consider an authentically “right wing” position, I don’t know why you appear to be concerned about what you perceive as the “anti-intellectualism” of the right wing. On the contrary, it is the height of “intellectualism” to always insist on something more substantive than merely someone’s job title when it an argument is being made. Simply having a username such as “Pharmachick” is not an argument.
        
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        January 2, 2022 6:01pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @ Man Among the Ruins
        
        If you had been reading Pharmachick’s comments on this blog, then you would have been aware that she has declared her Conflicts of Interest.
        
        https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/12/general_debate_29_december_2021.html#comment-3093670
        
        No-one undertakes scientific research on their own dime these days.
        
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        January 2, 2022 9:54pm
    - mawm
      
      BTW – the Bill and Malinda Gates foundation were sponsors of the Recovery Trial. I’m glad o see there’s no conflict of interest.//
      
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      January 2, 2022 3:26pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        I’m astonished to hear that, almost as much as hearing that the Otago University Infection Group is funded by the Gates Foundation and GAVI and Auckland University gets funding from the Wellcome Trust, advocates of eugenics. But that’s probably a conspiracy theory.//
        
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        January 2, 2022 8:19pm
      - Spoff
        
        TheUniversity of Oxford ran the Recovery Trial.
        The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation contributed $750 million towards the manufacturing and distribution a potential COVID-19 vaccine developed by Oxford University.
        The trial was directly funded by Wellcome and the
        Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation among others such as:
        National Institute for Health:
        “New Phase of Cooperation Between NIH and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation”
        https://www.nih.gov/about-nih/who-we-are/nih-director/statements/new-phase-cooperation-between-nih-bill-melinda-gates-foundation
        UK’s Department for International Development:
        “The World Bank, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, and the UK’s Department for International Development today announced a new partnership”
        https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2019/01/21/world-bank-gates-foundation-dfid-join-forces-to-improve-education-quality-around-the-world
        Health Data Research UK:
        Two grants from Gates Foundation:
        $2,727,661 – JUNE 2020
        $577,246 – MAY 2021
        https://www.gatesfoundation.org/about/committed-grants?q=Health%20Data%20Research%20UK
        Probably cheap at the price when you consider that the Emergency Use Application for the “vaccines” depends on there being no alternative treatments.
        “According to Forbes’s estimates, Bill Gates’s private wealth, estimated at around $115 billion, has increased by more than $10 billion during the pandemic.”
        
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        January 2, 2022 9:23pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Thanks for your contributions here, Ed. I must say that the technical detail escapes me, but I know enough to follow the flow, as it were.
      
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      January 2, 2022 6:39pm
  - Reid
    
    [Such profound scientific nonsense will be posted when you list your scientific credentials. mod.]
    
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    January 2, 2022 5:04pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      What “profound scientific nonsense”?
      Can we have a look so we can also assess it? Or could the mod list their scientific credentials so we know they are qualified to make this call?
      No offence, but censorship without justification is weird.
      
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      January 2, 2022 8:41pm
      - Reid
        
        Thanks for the support bro.
        
        Appreciate it.
        
        Not sure bout you, but I’m feeling I was born for these times.
        
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        January 2, 2022 11:07pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  Nick, while I think older people should be vaccinated including the booster to protect themselves mainly I am uncomfortable about this being promoted for young children.
  
  For an older person, the risk of harm from the virus is far greater than the risk from the vaccine. This is not the case for younger children.
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:36am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I agree. And it goes without saying that any vulnerable young children should also be vaccinated.
    
    My major concerns with the vaccines are serious cardiac events and a seeming unwillingness of authorities to take these seriously. In the United States, many young men presenting with symptoms of cardiac events following vaccination have been referred to psychiatrists.
    
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    January 2, 2022 8:46am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      BY that’s because it challenges the narrative, and as the princess here in NZ has informed us, that is not permissible. There is only a single source of truth in the state. No alternative is permitted.
      
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      January 2, 2022 9:25am
      - Fight4NZ
        
        Challenging the so called “narrative “ does not equal being correct or factual. Your basic working premise is your problem.
        
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        January 2, 2022 10:50pm
    - bronny1
      
      I see surf lifesaving NZ mandated vax passports today. So lots more healthy young men will be forced into a vaccine they may not want and do not need if they want to stay part of what to many is a very important community. Just sick.
      
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      January 2, 2022 11:57am
      - alloytoo
        
        I frankly don’t care if they have a useless bit of paper.
        
        I care if they can swim or not.
        
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        January 2, 2022 3:51pm
      - Observer of Life
        
        Bronny: And what do the vaccinated life guards do when they swim out to rescue someone drowning “… sir/madam proof of vaccination please” … “oh sorry, no proof, no saving today I’m afraid”… life guard swims away. Glug glug …
        Total BS!!!
        
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        January 3, 2022 4:06pm
- bronny1
  
  I have read quite a bit and seen no concrete evidence either way – it appears that the viral load Carried is the same though possibly lasts less time in the vaxxed? I gather this was because they get less of the illness, though that doesn’t appear to be the case with omicron so I suspect all bets are off with this variant as it’s so different
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:39am
- Matt Long
  
  The idea of the mRNA vaccine is that it provokes an immune response that will reduce the severity and length of symptoms of Covid.
  The data I have seen indicates the shorter length of symptoms means less virus is shed by the vaccinated, so assuming vaccinated people take the same precautions against spreading the disease that unvaccinated do, taking the vaccine would reduce the risk to people around you.
  However the NZ traffic light system ensures that the vaccinated do not take the same precautions and it will be them that are responsible for spreading the virus across NZ.
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:41am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Matt, this seems to support what you say.
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-new-studies-reveal-why-omicron-variant-is-less-severe/RFXA5HBCL4NJXYCWEH3KOCHUTM/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=nzh_fb&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1641022767
    
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    January 2, 2022 8:43am
  - Matt Long
    
    Vaccination does not cause a weaker virus, there are two theories I have seen on Covid mutations, one is that the vaccines increase the spread of mutations like antibiotic overuse causes resistant bacteria to spread, the other is that the higher viral load in unvaccinated mean there are more mutations happening due to a larger virus population.
    More deadly mutations tend to be self limiting by killing their host, while more contagious, less virulent mutations signal the end of a pandemic. Omicron we hope.
    If a mutation is both highly contagious and highly virulent for your particular demographic, vaccination becomes a more attractive option, along with D3, Zc, Se, and all the other things a responsible government is informing us about.
    
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    January 2, 2022 8:53am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Viral load is the same in the vaccinated as it is in the unvaccinated. It is looking more and more as though it is the vaccinated who are driving the variants and the infections. I agree that the vaccine offers protection against hospitalisation and possibly death for those at highest risk. This is a relatively small percentage of the population. Vaccinating the vast majority of the population during a “pandemic” is apparently a driver of ADE.
      
      https://eugyppius.substack.com/p/sars-cov-2-loves-the-vaccines
      
      If this is wrong information and can be proven to be wrong then let me know and I’ll retract it.
      
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      January 2, 2022 10:37am
      - Fight4NZ
        
        Retract away.
        https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2772613421000068
        Also more and more it has been found that articles and posts insisting that more and more things are supporting their viewpoint more and more are in fact only more and more increasing the bs index measured on those articles more and more.
        
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        January 2, 2022 11:00pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Fight4NZ the article I linked to doesn’t say it WILL happen, it says the early evidence indicates it LOOKS like it is happening. The article you linked to has a different opinion, it certainly isn’t a slam dunk debunk. It’s a difference of opinion.
        They state in their conclusion:
        
        “In summary, it can be concluded that phenomena such as OAS and ADE, based on theoretical grounds and (sic) well as outcome of experimental animal studies could have been stumbling blocks for the development of SARS-CoV-2 vaccines. In practice, current mRNA and as well as the adenovirus vectored vaccines appear to be safe and effective, with no signs of OAS or ADE.”
        
        The experiments on animals WERE a disaster, they all died. It’s why no mRNA vaccine has previously been approved for market. This one was pushed through with “emergency” use authority. The “emergency” was a fraud.
        The authors finish by stating the vaccines “appear” to be safe and effective. It’s very early days. We’ll see what happens over the next couple of years but there are serious early warning signs.
        
        There was no bs in the article I posted, I don’t know why you feel the need to imply there was. There is no bs in the article you posted. There are two different positions.
        That’s the free debate that’s been invisible for most of this clown circus. Particularly in NZ where our princess has told us there is “only one source of truth”. That’s not how it works. No matter how much money she gives the NZ media shills.
        
        I said the jabbed carry as much viral load as the unjabbed, that’s a fact. Cheers for the link to the article, it was interesting.
        
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        January 3, 2022 7:00am
      - Fight4NZ
        
        The early trials of RNA vaccines were a disaster. Time moved on, the problem was identified and solved. This isn’t a difference of opinion it is recent findings versus cherry picking for sensationalism or just straight ignorance.
        By your and others response to information provided by someone as highly qualified and knowledgeable as Pharmachic however I know “debating “ with you is a total waste of time. For your own reasons you cling manically to your antivaxxer narrative and that of the disinformation dozen. Lost cause.
        By the way, I’ll take your move from the end is nigh OAS /ADE is upon us, to it might be possible, as your retraction.
        
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        January 3, 2022 9:32am
  - Hollyfield
    
    Plus if people think “everyone is vaccinated” they are more likely to mix closely with people who may have covid and be asymptomatic, or have mild symptoms and assume because they are vaccinated they can’t have covid.
    
    In addition, people with medical exemptions have a vaccine pass that looks exactly like the vaccine pass of a person who is vaccinated. I realise this is so that people with exemptions aren’t discriminated against, but the result is that people will assume everyone who is in this venue is vaccinated and therefore “no risk”, but there could be unvaccinated people present. Not sure how the “tricky virus” is able to “hunt out” unvaccinated people while knowing to leave medically exempt people alone. It is indeed a clever virus.
    
    For the record, I have no issue mixing with unvaccinated people. An unvaccinated person will not make me sick. A sick person might make me sick.
    
    You could catch any illness (cold, stomach bug) from any person at any time, but the reality is that the vast majority of people you encounter at the supermarket etc are not sick (of any type of illness) and therefore will not make you sick.
    
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    January 2, 2022 9:37am
- cmm
  
  No it is not going to be a weaker virus. It is the same virus genetics. There is not much to a virus other than being a package of genes (ie. it does not have a cellular structure and is not really alive).
  
  It is, however, plausible that the viral load would be reduced (ie. there are less of them).
  
  But then it is also plausible that the “case” feels less sick and therefore goes about their business rather than staying at home, making them more infectious.
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:58am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  If you are vaccinated your body kills the virus better, it doesn’t change it.
  
  However when nearly everyone is vaccinated the result may be to selectively transmit new variants which the vaccine is less effective at killing.
  
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  January 2, 2022 9:01am
  - NK
    
    Thank you to everyone for your replies. It’s been very helpful.
    
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    January 2, 2022 9:46am
  - Ed Snack
    
    The idea that the vaccinated are infectious for a briefer period, and that they are more likely to have milder symptoms and thus are more likely to be about and active are not incompatible with the data. But I haven’t yet seen any serious research on demonstrating this.
    
    So although those ideas sound reasonable, they are speculative and not necessarily correct. This whole Covid affair has shown up many apparently reasonable speculations about the disease to be quite wrong, so I would be wary of basing policies on speculations.
    
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    January 2, 2022 11:03am
  - Fight4NZ
    
    Just to add any new variants will spread at least as fast through unvaccinated wherever contact with cases occurs. The omicron variant arising in a low vaccinated population like South Africa is statistically as expected with high viral loading providing increased probability of mutations so obviously more chance of a viable strain.
    And though the relaxed gatherings of vaxxer high numbers is not concretely proven, it is orders of magnitude more likely than idea that the vaccine is somehow providing the mechanism for the spread, that is just fear porn.
    
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    January 2, 2022 11:17pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Fight4NZ the early data disagrees with your opinion.
      The jabbed carry as much viral load as the unjabbed, their freedom of movement and access to large events is what will drive infections. They might have better outcomes than unjabbed, but as the unjabbed aren’t allowed to mix socially they are going to struggle to spread anything. It is the jabbed who will be the superspreaders.
      
      “This squares entirely with the preliminary data from Denmark, which has the double vaccinated sliding into negative efficacy against Omicron (but not Delta) after 90 days. The authors of that study tried to talk away this awkward result by claiming that it “was likely the result of Omicron spreading rapidly initially through single (super-spreading) events causing many infections among young, vaccinated individuals.” The more the same effect is viewed in other data sets, the less likely that explanation becomes.”
      
      https://eugyppius.substack.com/p/preliminary-uk-data-triple-vaccinated
      
      They are claiming that the jabbed are superspreaders as an explanation for the negative efficacy of the jab against omicron. The stench of desperation is getting stronger.
      
      This isn’t “fear porn”. It’s real world evidence based analysis. Fear porn is what the daily pulpit of truth gives us and the dribblings of Baker, Hendy, Plank and Wiles.
      
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      January 3, 2022 7:16am
      - Fight4NZ
        
        So in your 2nd paragraph you say “ their [jabbed] freedom of movement and access to large events is what will drive infections” which is widely agreed.
        Then your 3rd paragraph has eucalyptus describing this as desperation to maintain a so called narrative. Links to rabid antivaxxer fear porn is not evidence. So in some way I guess that’s your out for the odd self contradiction.
        
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        January 3, 2022 5:41pm
- ross.mc
  
  This paper should answer your question; https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.11.12.21265796v1.full-text
  “Conclusions As this field continues to develop, clinicians and public health practitioners should consider vaccinated persons who become infected with SARS-CoV-2 to be no less infectious than unvaccinated persons. These findings are critically important, especially in congregate settings where viral transmission can lead to large outbreaks.”
  Those who had previous infection showed reduced shedding, but the vaccinated and unvaccinated shed the same amount for the same length of time.
  Happy reading.
  
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  January 2, 2022 9:42am
  - mawm
    
    ^^^ Ross.mc – And there is the reason of why vaccine passports as used are absolutely useless.
    Segregation on vaccine status makes no sense and is purely to punish those who have decided not to follow the advice of a fish and chip shop worker.
    
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    January 2, 2022 12:22pm
I remember when

Germany covid figures for the periods 1/11/20-31/12/20 and 1/11/21-31/12/21.

2020 Cases 1,213,728 Deaths 23,703
2021 Cases 2,568,490 Deaths 16,497
28/12/21 Robert Koch Institute announced that it had detected a cumulative total of 10,442 omicron cases.
RKI only counts omicron cases verified by genome sequencing or PCR variant-specific tests.
Soon to become dominant variant in the country.
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January 2, 2022 8:16am
Vory v zakone

After Joe Rogan had 40 million listening to his Spotify podcast interview with Dr Peter McCullough recently, expect fireworks when the interview with this guy airs…

“First time in history that the ineffectiveness of a medicine is being blamed on those who haven’t taken it.”

Dr. Robert Malone Inventor of mRNA technology

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1476749675436855316?t=0fWMZ4rAtKZk4dGoM1kZ8g&s=19

They may have to shut down the whole interweb thingy to prevent it being heard ??
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January 2, 2022 8:19am
- Vory v zakone
  
  A short clip here …
  
  https://twitter.com/MythinformedMKE/status/1477294359422939142?t=BZoYp4Ooaf15B55WRl_e-w&s=19
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:32am
- Inandout
  
  Vvz, another copy of his video.
  https://open.spotify.com/episode/3SCsueX2bZdbEzRtKOCEyT?si=fE8s32qWQPaRnrvMsydvgg&utm_source=copy-link&nd=1
  
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  January 2, 2022 9:26am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    I watched the whole thing which is over 3 hours.
    
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    January 2, 2022 3:00pm
- Spoff
  
  Full 3 hour Rogan Malone interview.
  https://www.bitchute.com/video/4eM94077Lekj/
  
  Essential.
  
  7 1
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  January 2, 2022 11:50am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Excellent than you. Wouldn’t it be wonderful to have this on TV One at some time? Let people watch and make their own mind up about it? No, the princess won’t permit any other opinions.
    
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    January 2, 2022 12:38pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Yay bitchute! Yep lots of nutters and charlitans on there but also lots of goodies the neomarxists want censored.
    
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    January 2, 2022 4:43pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Sadly that’s because every other place is censored. Surely these things should be able to stand or fall on their merit? Why the need to block and censor? If it is bullshit surely it will be easy to debunk?
      Banning shit never worked out well for anyone who tried it. But bring it on. The more it happens the quicker the people understand the shit show they are being subjected to.
      
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      January 2, 2022 8:23pm
- bronny1
  
  It is a fantastic interview, well worth listening to. Put aside some time while you are gardening or driving.
  
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  January 2, 2022 12:00pm
- OTGO
  
  I listened to that podcast this morning.
  https://open.spotify.com/episode/3SCsueX2bZdbEzRtKOCEyT?si=kBwoQ0glToGBt6ZHzlFUcg&utm_source=native-share-menu
  Worth a listen. I hope Ashley Bloomfield takes the time to listen.
  
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  January 2, 2022 1:53pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Just because Joe Rogan had a long interview with this guy doesnt make it “true”.
  
  A quick search on the interwebby will find Videos debunking some of the assertions.
  
  Welcome to the world of Social Media.
  
  McCullough is good at getting airtime. ie Joe Rogan, testimony to Texas Senate etc. People really want to believe there is a cheap silver bullet.
  
  My question is. If his assertions are true. Why hasnt he spent his PR capital getting a full blown acceptable trial done??
  
  Am thinking how Millions believed in Joe Biden airtime to vote for him. Turned out they were mislead as well.
  
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  January 2, 2022 2:02pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Ra Henare, so what parts weren’t true and why? Anybody who speaks out against the “accepted” narrative is smeared and vilified. Most have no skin in the game. Most have risked their careers and reputations. Unlike those adhering to the “official” narrative who have all profited handsomely.
    Follow the money. It takes you to the answer it pretty much every situation.
    This narrative is rotten. Completely rotten.
    
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    January 2, 2022 8:29pm
  - mawm
    
    Ra – he did get a full blown trial done, it was peer reviewed and accepted for publication, it went through the whole rigmarole of legal stuff about who owned the copyright, etc,. as all publications accepted in a major journal does, it had its preprint promotion…. and then suddenly the publication was withdrawn. The Journal that it was to be published in is owned by Elsevier.
    
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    January 2, 2022 9:09pm
I remember when

Is Dad’s Army the army of the future.
The fastest growing segment of the population, so does this make them the most expendable.
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January 2, 2022 8:19am
- Ed Snack
  
  Expensive to deploy, multi-terrain walkers are not cheap, and the combat ready walking sticks are also expensive, though the ones with built in rocket launchers do serve a dual purpose as long as one does not absent minded lay activate one while tottering to the battlefield.
  
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  January 2, 2022 11:06am
mawm

Another very good interview by Joe Rogan. This is with Dr Robert Malone. Anyone interested in Covid, the science, the effects, the side effects and the skullduggery it is all laid out here. It is a 3 hour interview.
https://podtail.com/podcast/the-joe-rogan-experience/-1757-dr-robert-malone-md/
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January 2, 2022 8:23am
- Ra Henare
  
  Who the Hell has 3 hours to spend listening to a podcast?
  
  4 7
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  January 2, 2022 2:04pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    People interested in what is actually happening in what is undoubtedly one of the most complex and historical issues of this century may spend 3 hours listening to a podcast. It might take more than 280 characters on Twitter or a meme on Facebook to get a grasp of what is going on. It certainly won’t appear in a headline in the NZ Herald or on RNZ.
    
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    January 2, 2022 8:33pm
    - mawm
      
      Certainly not people who get their “information” from 30s sound bites on TV1.
      
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      January 2, 2022 9:11pm
I remember when

Is it time for the production of some figures that give some detail to where most cases of covid infection have occured.
Surely with all the experts providing totals more exact areas of concern must be available.
Equality of lockdown, equality of covid level/traffic light, is not equality of covid prevention.
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January 2, 2022 8:25am
yossarian

So JK Rollings (who has done more for childhood reading than almost anyone else) is banished from the 20 year anniversary of the series that she alone created. When will this madness stop, or is it only getting warmed up?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/why-jk-rowling-has-been-snubbed-from-the-harry-potter-reunion/O4FBXILA6ZIDKSX3DN3O3IQ4KY/
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January 2, 2022 8:25am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Usual Lefty trash from news.com.au, Rowling being completely correct to the rage of the properly pretentious.
  
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  January 2, 2022 6:26pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Who is pākehā?

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/call-me-pakeha-please

Only NZ Europeans?

What of 6th Generation NZ Chinese or NZ Indians, or 2nd Generation Iraqis?
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January 2, 2022 8:25am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Not me. I’m a New Zealander. I was born here, which makes me indigenous.
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:28am
  - pdm
    
    NMTB – me too.
    
    13 1
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    January 2, 2022 10:06am
    - rockape
      
      I am a Scott who just happens to live in NZ and has citizenship here.
      
      4 3
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      January 2, 2022 10:27am
      - pdm
        
        rocka – just like my father who was from the Isle Of Lewis but became a New Zealander with a Scottish accent for almost 50 years.
        
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        January 2, 2022 11:42am
- Matt Long
  
  Based on my experience with the word pakeha, it is the equivalent of two pejorative words beginning with “N”, one of which is “native”.
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:32am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    You lost me
    
    8 1
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    January 2, 2022 8:36am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      He is pretending that the word ‘pākehā’ is offensive. A typical snowflake move, to take offence when none is intended.
      
      6 40
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      January 2, 2022 8:40am
      - Rich Prick
        
        Tākïng ōffencē whēn nònè ïs íńtēndēd ïs ān ēxćluśïvēlÿ lēfty thïng. Hōw vēry dāré hē!
        
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        January 2, 2022 9:41am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        He is not pretending, pakeha is offensive in the same way as hori is.
        
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        January 2, 2022 9:47am
      - Cassandra
        
        You could argue that lack of intent to offend applies to anything offensive. I don’t like or use the word pakeha – to me it is offensive. Your intent matters but it’s not paramount. The n word is offensive to a lot of people but I don’t intend it to be offensive. Would I therefore use it? No, of course not.
        
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        January 2, 2022 9:55am
      - Jack5
        
        Woke racism from Salmond. She doesn’t like the word “European” being applied to some New Zealanders.
        
        It’s no different from “African” being applied to Black Americans, “Pacifica” or “Pacific Islander” being applied to New Zealanders of non-Maori Polynesian origin, or “Chinese” being applied to New Zealanders whose ancestors came here from China three or more generations ago.
        
        In Maori, no problem with the term “pakeha”, with or without Mīkēnmīldāgāīn’s Mike-crons. In English, nothing wrong with “European”.
        
        It gets interesting with ethnicities that don’t use Roman character writing. The convention will have to be the Roman alphabet versions of their ethnicities with common sense about the glyphs. The ‘ (fakauá) glottal-stop character in Tongan is an example. Getting the right ‘ can be a challenge with the Kiwiblog software.
        
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        January 2, 2022 10:13am
      - Kiwi Dave
        
        Oops. Sorry, Rich Prick. I accidentally reported you when I merely intended to warn you that your keyboard has a grave and acute infection of the Omacron virus. Umm, louts like me can give the mods unnecessary work.
        
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        January 2, 2022 10:52am
      - artemisia
        
        Very good Kiwi Dave.
        
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        January 2, 2022 10:59am
      - Ed Snack
        
        How utterly hypocritical of you Mikey, but also how typical.
        
        Apparently it is fine for offensive speech to be defined by those on the receiving end only in some cases eh ?
        
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        January 2, 2022 11:09am
      - pdm
        
        pg – nt os sure about the Hori bit being offensive because:
        
        1. mrspdm and I have a very good friend with the first name Hori.
        2 remember the book – Horis Half Gallon Jar.
        
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        January 2, 2022 11:45am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Harry Orsman devoted 3 pages (9 columns) to the word Pakeha (including its use in compound words).
        
        There is no doubt that the word carries derogatory and/or exclusionary connotations (Dict. of NZ English, p.568)
        
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        January 2, 2022 1:53pm
  - Paulus
    
    I think if you look it up the word is also “Aboriginal”.
    
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    January 2, 2022 10:24am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    The fact we are tying ourselves in knots over race and racial heritage means we are enganged in insanity.
    
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    January 2, 2022 4:46pm
- Russ the Muss
  
  This obsession with identity, what is it with the radical left and the need to be in a box. To he honest screw the state and the wellington loveys and what they want to call me. I know what I call the govt and it ain’t Pakeha…
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:34am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I thought the term referred to people of European ancestry born in New Zealand.
  
  It would be unusual for an ethnically Chinese person, even born in New Zealand to use that term to describe themselves.
  
  Of course Chinese folk here have zero interest in Crown Maori relations. The “Treaty” is an annoying buzzing sound in the background as they go about running businesses and educating their children.
  
  If you asked them whether they were “Pakeha” they would simply view the question as irrelevant, mildly amusing, or mildly annoying. They would have no interest in engaging. Yes I am generalising.
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:35am
  - Unity
    
    I totally object to being referred to as ‘Pakeha’. I always put ‘New Zealander’ in the ‘Other’ box. For me I believe Pakeha is a derogatory term.
    
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    January 2, 2022 8:38am
  - Don Beckett
    
    ‘Pakeha’ simply means a ‘fair or pale skinned stranger’. It’s similar in the Cook Islands – ‘Palangi’, and in Tonga, ‘Papa-a’ .
    I suppose, depending on context and tone of voice, it could be used insultingly.
    
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    January 2, 2022 8:55am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Yes and in the early days of New Zealand settlement of course Maori needed a term to describe these new white people.
      
      But a couple of centuries on, surely we can just be called “New Zealanders”, regardless of our ancestry.
      
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      January 2, 2022 9:03am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        That would be too simple and too logical Benedict. And of course, it would be one less thing for the woke shitlibs and Karens to shriek about.
        
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        January 2, 2022 11:05am
      - david
        
        It often appears as a binary choice, I.e. are you Māori or Pakeha?
        To me this defines pakeha as “ non-Māori” and thus can cover a multitude of non-specific ethnicities. That is racist and offensive and I for one, have refused to accept that option for more years than I care to count.
        PS the macrons are now being inserted automatically even though the English language in which I write does not use such devices. BAH
        
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        January 2, 2022 11:44am
    - LauraNorda
      
      Ahh, no Don, according to the Encyclopedia of New Zealand 1966 version it seems the origin of the word is obscure, but could mean “flea” or “pig’ and the notation claims that it is in no sense derogatory.
      
      Quote
      Warning
      
      This information was published in 1966 in An Encyclopaedia of New Zealand, edited by A. H. McLintock. It has not been corrected and will not be updated.
      
      Up-to-date information can be found elsewhere in Te Ara.
      MAORI-PAKEHA – PAKEHA-MAORI
      Contents
      
      The Word Maori
      The Word Pakeha
      Pakeha-Maori
      
      The Word Pakeha
      
      Pakeha, which is a Maori term for the white inhabitants of New Zealand, was in vogue even prior to 1815. Its original meaning and origin are obscure, but the following are possible origins, the first being the most probable:
      
      From pakepakeha: imaginary beings resembling men.
      
      From pakehakeha: one of the sea gods.
      
      From keha: a flea.
      
      From poaka: a pig.
      
      Its use was in no sense derogatory.
      Unquote
      
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      January 2, 2022 10:50am
  - cmm
    
    I thought it just meant “foreigner” or “other”.
    
    For Maori, “other” were historically European. There were no Chinese and Indian “other” until more recently.
    
    Since most Maori are predominantly also of European ancestry, the term is rather meaningless.
    
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    January 2, 2022 9:02am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      Did not Maori come from Tiawan?
      
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      January 2, 2022 9:07am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        One came from Italy apparently . . .
        
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        January 2, 2022 9:49am
      - Jack5
        
        Here are the ancestors of Maori and other Polynesians: the indigenous people of Taiwan, there long before the Chinese arrived.
        
        https://youtu.be/5awcB4jN63E
        
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        January 2, 2022 11:13am
    - DeepBlue
      
      Chinese gold miners have been in NZ for a very long time.
      
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      January 2, 2022 9:11am
  - Eketahuna
    
    Historically, yes, so older NZ European people (who by no means can be described as ‘woke’) often describe themselves as Pakeha. Perfectly common when I was growing up in the 1970s.
    
    I think now it refers to a state of mind and (as the article above suggests) tends to be preferred by ‘progressive’ types who are filled with self-loathing, subscribe to the principle of collective guilt for matters which happened generations ago and (unlike Māori) wish to have little or nothing to do with their antecedents and their past. The way they use it is like defining yourself as a negative. Hence it’s popularity with academia, media, bureaucrats etc. it is NOT an appropriate term for general use in a census.
    
    The term is fast becoming meaningless in a diverse multi-cultural entity. Another relic of the absurdity of pretending we are still a bi-cultural society. As Benedict says, no self-respecting Chinese origin person would use it, but I’ve seen it contextually applied to all non-Māori (I think tau iwi would be the better phrase).
    
    I dislike NZ European also as a descriptor. Last census I used the ‘Other’ box to write ‘Anglo-Celtic’ (apologising to my German ancestors as I did). It’s a descriptor used in Australia and describes the rich diversity of my English, Welsh and Scottish heritage to a tee which NZ European, let alone Pakeha singularly fail to do.
    
    Even better still, eliminate this ridiculous obsession with American-style identity politics.
    
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    January 2, 2022 9:20am
    - bronny1
      
      Wasn’t accepted in the town I grew up in in the 70s (40% Maori pop)
      
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      January 2, 2022 11:59pm
  - Justitia
    
    Shortly Benedict that “annoying buzzing sound” of the Treaty will drown out everything else as Mahuta-Ardern progress their ethnostate. Three Waters is just the beginning, intended to give iwi corporates a lock on access to fresh water. Non-Maori will effectively be made second class citizens in their own country: https://t.co/YdZm8pq0ZJ.
    
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    January 2, 2022 9:55am
    - artemisia
      
      Non-Maori are not the ones over represented in the bad stats. But some households, Maori or not, are business / asset owners and can easily find other countries to place their assets or even live in. And if they feel like second class citizens in their own country they for sure will be looking around.
      
      Happened in France with the rich tax; some wealthy took their ball and left for countries that (of course) welcomed them warmly.
      
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      January 2, 2022 10:48am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Perhaps you could call Mikey a “gweilo” (or gwailou if you prefer) Benedict, and see if he objects.
    
    [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gweilo ]
    
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    January 2, 2022 11:13am
- Nickc2
  
  I don’t want to be known/called Pakeha. I want to be known/called a New Zealander. I’m of the opinion there’s a great number of people who also prefer to be called/known as NZers.
  I have asked many times what the word Pakeha means and some of the replies are quite derogatory to say the least.
  Surely, being called/known as an NZer denotes your country of allegiance?
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:37am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  ‘pakeha’ only exits in the world of the special people
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:38am
  - MCōs
    
    Let’s not beat around the bush.
    What do you mean by ‘special people’?
    
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    January 2, 2022 9:20am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Maori
      
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      January 2, 2022 9:50am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The people who think they are special.
      Stop beating about the bush
      
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      January 2, 2022 10:08am
- bronny1
  
  When I was a kid, the word meant “foreigner”. That may have changed but as a 6th generation kiwi I will never accept being called pakeha.
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:41am
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s common throughout Polynesia to distinguish between the native peoples and and outsiders.
  Maori — Pakeha
  Samoa — Palangi
  
  And its NOT racist.
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:43am
  - alloytoo
    
    It find it racist, therefore it is racist.
    
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    January 2, 2022 9:13am
    - Surely Knott
      
      In gender we are told that we must call the person by the label with which they choose to be identified. But with race we are labelled by how another culture labels us regardless of how we identify ourselves.
      
      Furthermore, as Maori is anyone with a Maori ancestor they could also be fair skinned.
      
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      January 2, 2022 9:43am
  - cmm
    
    A word in itself is not racist. It depends on how it is used.
    
    The “N-word” is not racist. It just means a person who comes from the Niger area (ie West Africa). ie. it is no more racist than saying European, African, American or Chinese.
    
    Most languages have a term for “others” – be that pakeha, umlungu (Zulu/Xhosa), whatever.
    
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    January 2, 2022 9:16am
    - smttc
      
      Are you sure about that?
      
      I thought it was a prejorative derivative of the word “negro” meaning black.
      
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      January 2, 2022 11:51am
      - Jack5
        
        It’s related to euphemisms.
        
        If a thing or class, such as a race, arouses hostile views or contempt, a new word arises dissociated from those hostile views. The old word becomes locked in as derogatory.
        
        A case where there is confusion is the word “niggardly”, meaning stingy or parsimonious and derived from Old Norse meaning “to be poor”.
        
        In America this is held by some to be derogatory, in the mistaken opinion it’s related to the N-word.
        
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        January 2, 2022 12:48pm
    - mawm
      
      I believe the origin of mlungu was derogatory and equates whites (both in colour and origin) to the scum found floating on the sea.
      
      Of course in our brave new world nothing said by darker races about fair-skinned races could ever be considered racist.
      
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      January 2, 2022 12:35pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      The “N” word derives from the Latin adjective for black or dark – Niger/Nigra/Nigrum
      
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      January 2, 2022 6:36pm
  - Ruahine
    
    I am never quite sure if I am a Pakeha Maori or a Maori Pakeha.
    Perhaps I should have a chat with that esteemed anthropologist Mr Willie Jackson. He seems to know a lot about such matters. I believe Mr Billy T James said he had a similar quandary.
    
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    January 2, 2022 9:27am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Depends which side of your family is asking …
      
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      January 2, 2022 7:18pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Pakeha is the Maori word for us non-Maori. We don’t call ourselves Pakeha.
    
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    January 2, 2022 9:50am
  - Cassandra
    
    Therefore I’m an outsider? My grandfather was born here in 1879. I’m a person of this land. I know no other homeland.
    
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    January 2, 2022 9:59am
- Mike H S
  
  I am very much of the opinion “Don’t know, don’t care.”
  
  I feel it is more of the hand wringing by the woke. Why can’t we all be New Zealanders and be done with it. When you look at the obverse position, which I often tend to do to see the other point of view, you could say that calling someone pakeha could be construed as racist and therefore should be banned just like the n……r word.
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:45am
  - Nickc2
    
    Agree. If you’re not a New Zealand Citizen, you can call yourself whatever you like. I think that’s what the Census is trying to achieve. Or, are they seeking to further divide our Nation?
    
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    January 2, 2022 9:34am
- Truman lodge
  
  Maggy
  
  In my opinion it should be only those of British and irish descent who arrived in the 1800s and don’t qualify to return to Europe. Nz Chinese from those times make up about 0.2 percent of the Chinese population. Between 1907 and 1987 nz had a British only policy in law although not strictly applied. Immigrants who have come post ww2 don’t have the right to call themselves pakeha as they have right of return. Just my opinion though.
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:47am
  - The Housekeeper
    
    Truman, who on earth would argue for “the right to call themselves pakeha”?
    
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    January 2, 2022 10:56am
  - Jack5
    
    Truman Lodge’s Nz Chinese from those times make up about 0.2 percent of the Chinese population.
    
    Quite a bit higher than 0.2 per cent in NZ outside Auckland.
    
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    January 2, 2022 12:34pm
- Hollyfield
  
  I read the first paragraph of the article. The funny thing is that the census form used to say pākehā, but so many people used the “other” box to write “NZ European”, that the census form was changed to now read “NZ European”. It will be interesting to see what happens if they do change the census form to say “pākehā”.
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:49am
- KH
  
  Maggy. Peter Hosking in the article you linked promotes the term “Pakeha”. And goes out of his way to avoid the option “New Zealander”, which is the title I use.
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:54am
- The GreyGhost
  
  Pākehā is an exonym with vague and contradictory etymology. It is clung to by white New Zealanders who are either ignorant in their own cultural identity or suffer under some ‘white guilt’ about their colonial ancestry. There’s something disingenuous about labelling your entire culture with another’s language.
  
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  January 2, 2022 8:56am
- Jade Warrior
  
  Just call me a New Zealander.
  
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  January 2, 2022 9:07am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  As a term that describes those without Maori ancestry, I have no problem with it. But it is not an ethnicity that anyone can identify with so does not make sense as an answer on the census form.
  
  The best way to fill out the ethnicity question on the census form is to refuse to answer. The government should not be treating people differently based on ethnicity and therefore has no need of that information. I have done this. The census person queried it and I told them I have a moral objection to dividing people up by race so I would not answer. He accepted that and left.
  
  If it’s a computerised form and the field cannot be left blank, I put ‘Other Pacific Island’ (in my case the North Island).
  
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  January 2, 2022 9:29am
- Yvette
  
  ■ Maori
  Williams in his Dictionary of the Maori Language records a number of meanings for the word Maori, the common one being normal, usual, ordinary, which is applied when talking of birds, trees, dogs, or men. Originally, therefore, maori tangata meant an ordinary man or a man native to the place in which he was living
  
  ■ Pakeha
  … Māori also used other terms such as tupua (“supernatural”, “object of fear, strange being”),[14] kehua (“ghosts”),[15] and maitai (“metal” or referring to persons “foreign”)[16] to refer to some of the earliest visitors
  
  The etymology of pākehā is unknown, although the most likely sources are the words pākehakeha or pakepakehā, which refer to an oral tale of a “mythical, human like being, with fair skin and hair who possessed canoes made of reeds which changed magically into sailing vessels”.[19] When Europeans first arrived they rowed to shore in longboats, facing backwards. In traditional Māori canoes or “waka”, paddlers face the direction of travel. This is supposed to have led to the belief that the sailors were supernatural beings.
  
  From the sense Maori is “normal, usual, ordinary”, while Pakeha may well be “mythical, human like being” even “supernatural beings”, it is obvious “Pakeha” is a white supremest term in the minds of “ordinary” ‘Maori’, and should be immediately de-platformed. :o)
  
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  January 2, 2022 9:43am
  - Cassandra
    
    That makes those of us who claim NZ as home Maori. I’d go along with that. Then we can all be one people. Problem solved.
    
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    January 2, 2022 10:02am
    - Yvette
      
      Cassandra, if I understand your response properly, it does identify, as I would, that I am also “normal, usual, and ordinary”, so I identify too as māori in its true sense.
      
      I also notice now, above ‘supremist’ is a mis-spell.
      And note too “When Europeans first arrived they rowed to shore in longboats, facing backwards. In traditional Māori canoes or “waka”, paddlers face the direction of travel. This is supposed to have led to the belief that the sailors were supernatural beings” is, in that immediate context, a slight challenge to what they now call ‘Maori science’ – ‘mean’ as it may seem to point out, but the evidence is there.
      
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      January 2, 2022 10:50am
- Local Miller
  
  Not me, I gave up my SA Citizenship and became a New Zealand Citizen.
  
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  January 2, 2022 12:04pm
fredonas

Welcome to the San Francisco of the South (rolls eyes in ratepayer exasperation).
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/01/wellington-city-council-to-spend-17-500-repainting-its-rainbow-crossing.html
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January 2, 2022 8:28am
- Prince
  
  They can’t collect the recycling on the right day, but plenty of money for this woke stuff.
  
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  January 2, 2022 10:40am
bronny1

https://dailytelegraph.co.nz/opinion/lack-of-public-debate-between-medical-professionals-about-new-zealands-pandemic-response-has-helped-fuel-anger-and-lack-of-trust/

(Mods – I think the link provides context on what this is about!)
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January 2, 2022 8:37am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Thanks bronny, that’s a great article with a list of all the questions that many have asked over the last 18 months but not a single question has been answered.
  Instead we get all of the mainstream media and the shill talking heads spouting memes like “anti vaxxers”, “conspiracy theorists”, foil hat wearers” and “misnformation”. Weak as piss – they are terrified of a real debate because they know they would be shredded and exposed inside 5 minutes.
  
  Ivor Cummins in Ireland had an interesting story about a similar situation. He has been asking for a public debate with any of the medical “experts” in Ireland the whole time this has been going on. Tumbleweed. Then these emails exchanges between some of the covidian technocrats were leaked. It wasn’t difficult to see why they didn’t want to debate him.
  A very good read, worth checking out. The same happened in NZ with the vilification of Plan B in NZ and the smearing of anyone opposing the official narrative. Simon Thornley in particular was attacked by shills in the mainstream media and academia who were given massively disproportionate access to public platforms.
  
  Anyway, here’s a link to the Cummins story.
  
  https://gript.ie/frankly-id-prefer-to-sort-this-out-with-a-good-hurley-and-no-witnesses-zero-covid-group/
  
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  January 2, 2022 12:58pm
KevO'Brien

Just re-appeared, a guide to the complex links of money and power–who’s pulling the reins?
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/blackrock-vanguard-own-big-pharma-media/?utm_source=salsa&eType=EmailBlastContent&eId=736ed55c-1837-43b8-95c6-9ed1d9d01cc8
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January 2, 2022 8:45am
- BAM
  
  There’s the answer to why Collins was endlessly vilified by the “media”.
  
  Also explains why Chris Luxon was promoted so strongly by certain sections of the media.
  
  Like Ardern he knows what’s going on and will do what’s required.
  
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  January 2, 2022 1:00pm
coge

The push for the third booster, and the language being used, bears the hallmarks of a butt covering exercise. If I’m not mistaken.
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January 2, 2022 8:48am
DeepBlue

The Herald have slipped that the wedding is the end of this month. So everyone relax and enjoy January.

Makes sense as once the boosters and kiddy vax are well underway, hold the wedding as a pivot away from covid to launch into the new political year and push the climate change agenda for 2022.
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January 2, 2022 8:59am
- Don Beckett
  
  Run Clarke, run. 😆
  
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  January 2, 2022 10:04am
- Prince
  
  Is the DJ unavoidably detained ?
  
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  January 2, 2022 10:41am
KH

Really Kevin. I own a chunk of Vanguard assets. Along with another band of New Zealanders.
And the article immediately jumps to a bit of pointless bulls##t
“…… driving COVID-19 responses — all of which, so far, have endangered rather than optimized public health…..”
Spare us this rubbish.
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January 2, 2022 9:01am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Congratulations on owning Vanguard shares. But what part of the link isn’t accurate and why?
  
  Vanguard and Blackrock will basically own everything on the planet by 2028.
  
  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-12-04/blackrock-and-vanguard-s-20-trillion-future-is-closer-than-you-think
  
  You don’t see a problem with that? Or as a pure capitalist do you think they run their portfolios altruistically and don’t influence the assets they own to create more profit for shareholders? As a pure capitalist do you think this will be beneficial to the planet and the people on it? As a pure capitalist do you believe some magical “competition” will rise up in the “free market” to maintain “market equilibrium”?
  
  Nothing good ever came of a monopoly position. We know that from the days of government owned infrastructure. The lessons don’t change under a different ideology. This isn’t good for anyone.
  
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  January 2, 2022 11:55am
Gravelroad

What happened about the road blocks and vax paper checking at the borders north of Auckland (and possible other very important “vulnerable” places)?
Are groups of special appointees stopping vehicles and causing traffic mayhem?
Not hearing about it here in the South Island.
Has the Labour Party banned reporting of the predicted 8 hour traffic hold-ups on the borders?
Or was it all just a costly virtue signalling exercise to appease a section of society and piss off the tourists from Auckland?
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January 2, 2022 9:05am
- pdm
  
  Simple answer GRoad.
  
  The night the exodus started Police Checked the criminal Records of Hone’s conscripted volunteers and somewhere between 50% and 70% of them had to be stood down because of their criminal history.
  
  Road blocks only lasted a day or two and Hone was very pissed off that he was not told about the checks. Perhaps Klueless Kelvin forgot to tell him the checks were going to happen.
  
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  January 2, 2022 9:20am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Or ‘work’ is a 4 letter word and they don’t like it
    
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    January 2, 2022 10:15am
    - Prince
      
      They were also told that ‘volunteers’ meant they don’t get paid (by local DHB, Police, special Govt grant etc).
      Gone by lunchtime.
      
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      January 2, 2022 10:45am
  - DeepBlue
    
    A small matter of the volunteers not being paid (oxymoron).
    
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    January 2, 2022 10:33am
- artemisia
  
  Are the police and iwi reps carefully patrolling the Northland border to stop those trying to leave without the right papers? Including the neg test if not vaxed?
  
  Gotta protect newly orange Auckland, save all those grannies.
  
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  January 2, 2022 9:42am
- Pavel
  
  The volunteers couldn’t be bothered once they learnt that volunteers are not paid and the police were too stretched physically and financially to man it (struggled to even recruit trainee cops who hadn’t finished their training). After 5 days they all went home. All it was really about was Hone getting his face and name splashed all over the news and increasing his Kaumatua status up north.
  
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  January 2, 2022 10:01am
  - artemisia
    
    Hone’s mana may have decreased once people realised the number of volunteers sent home by the police as not acceptable.
    
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    January 2, 2022 10:37am
- Matt Long
  
  There’s a storey floating around that the volunteers were expecting DHB funding for their efforts, more likely they got bored and went home.
  
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  January 2, 2022 10:07am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Thanks for the feedback.
    Looks like the roadblocks and paper inspecting were a fizzer, then.
    So, is Northland and it’s vulnerable communities overrun with Covid19 now as a result of all those out of control Aucklanders going up there?
    
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    January 2, 2022 11:59am
  - artemisia
    
    Well I wonder who told them that porkie.
    
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    January 2, 2022 12:55pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  300 cops mobilized, deployed and stood down for sfa purpose. Enjoy your summer crime wave.
  
  Doesn’t seem to have reduced the peak madness here though. I abandoned my attempt to get to our “supermarket” this morning – will rely on the freezer.
  
  It will probably have harmed smaller places and outside the peak holiday period.
  
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  January 2, 2022 3:44pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING

The state of New Zealand and its Police….

When my partner was sent this vid link last night, as a registered firearms owner and Nazi memorabilia collector, he was both shocked and horrified 🙁

https://youtu.be/PsIp0JCaw9w
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January 2, 2022 9:11am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  There needs to be a fundraiser so this guy can lawyer up and challenge the Police and the person who caused the Police to act
  
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  January 2, 2022 10:18am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Wonder if Andy Coster has this pinned up on the wall of his mancave?
    
    ‘Sir Robert’s Nine Principles of Policing’
    
    https://twitter.com/ezralevant/status/1477380364842774532
    
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    January 2, 2022 11:20am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    curry4me? posted this yesterday I think
    
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    January 2, 2022 12:54pm
    - curry4me
      
      Steve Otto(North Shore) Yes, I did. There was another video today. I’ll post it tomorrow.
      
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      January 2, 2022 6:47pm
- skyblue
  
  I have just started collecting Nazi Germany stuff. Wonder if I will get a visit. Most items have a swastika on it, some SS as well. Ironically one item has no Swastika on it, one of Hitler’s spoons from his Munich flat.
  
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  January 2, 2022 11:09am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    If you want any more of them spoons just let us know….my partner was saying he’s got dozens of them that he’d let go for the right price.
    
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    January 2, 2022 11:51am
    - skyblue
      
      How can we connect?
      
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      January 2, 2022 12:03pm
      - Jack5
        
        ?There you go, Maggie …
        
        3 1
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        January 2, 2022 12:58pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        What about you Jack….any interest? 😀
        
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        January 2, 2022 1:34pm
      - Jack5
        
        This is spooning out of control!
        
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        January 2, 2022 3:05pm
    - skyblue
      
      engineerpeter@gmail.com
      
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      January 2, 2022 2:20pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Stirring muchly, Maggie?
      
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      January 2, 2022 7:25pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Not my style TBH
        
        2 1
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        January 2, 2022 8:00pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Happy Covid Day everyone! For Mikey – you missed this one, unaccountably.

It’s two years to the day (1 Jan for the pedantic, but it’s still 1 Jan in the Americas at least) since the Chinese government announced the arrival of a novel virus.

How much trouble can one little virus give, eh.
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January 2, 2022 9:40am
- Cassandra
  
  Glad someone is on the ball. Two years and no idea what caused the outbreak and it still hasn’t killed more than a handful of Chinese. Amazing.
  
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  January 2, 2022 10:05am
  - Jack5
    
    China has officially reported 102,314 cases of Covid-19 and 4,636 deaths, which is low for the population size.
    
    However, there is widespread cynicism about the accuracy of the figures China is releasing.
    
    For example, this news report 18 months ago:
    
    https://www.news.com.au/technology/coronavirus-crematorium-data-prove-china-was-lying-about-covid19/news-story/518d04c51a89a900bbc91dfb23ad9dbb
    
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    January 2, 2022 3:01pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

I note from the UK New Years Honours List that the Chief Medical Officers for England, Wales & Scotland have been awarded knighthoods.

Ashley must have choked on his Weetbix.
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January 2, 2022 9:42am
- Matt Long
  
  Honours seem to be like public grants, they throw them around like a mad woman throwing excrement.
  
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  January 2, 2022 10:10am
ByGolly

Seems pretty clear -cut to me.
Why would you do it?
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January 2, 2022 10:06am
Maggie Pie

Asking for a friend.

Should tourists from Iran be allowed to drive in New Zealand on an ‘International Drivers License’ if they meet the ‘eyesight’ criteria?

https://twitter.com/BanginTweets_/status/1477378401858170885
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January 2, 2022 10:12am
Fletch

Bombshells from Joe Rogan’s interview with Dr Robert Malone.

Cash benefits for hospitals who can get a patient on a ventilator or who have a patient die of Covid –

“The numbers are quite large. There is something like a $3,000 basically death benefit to a hospital if it [a patient admission] can be claimed to be Covid.

There is a financial incentive to call somebody covid positive. The hospitals receive a bonus from the government – I think it’s like $3,000 – if someone is hospitalized and able to be declared Covid positive. They also receive a bonus – I think the total is something like $30,000 incentive – if somebody gets put on the vent [ventilator].

Then they get a bonus if somebody is declared dead with Covid.

https://twitter.com/MythinformedMKE/status/1477036127626399749

Joe Biden personally visited the leader of India and it looks like they got him to keep the success of the treatments in Uttar Pradesh under wraps.

There was a meeting between Joe Biden and Modi. All I know is that immediately afterward there was a decision not to disclose the contents of what was being deployed in Uttar Pradesh. Uttar Pradesh, as you know, has crushed Covid. It’s not clear what are the drugs [they used]. What we do know is there was a decision made [as] the virus was just ripping through Uttar Pradesh, which has the same population as the United States.

The composition has not been formally disclosed. It was done in coordination with the WHO, and whatever was in those packages was rumored to include ivermectin.

https://twitter.com/MythinformedMKE/status/1477028934252482562

You can’t put it any more simply. The drug companies are blackmailing governments. It’s all about money. If govts REALLY cared about curing people they would use any and all means, including drug and therapeutic treatments. But that would put an end to the EUA and vaccines and they can’t have that. Instead thousands have been let die.
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January 2, 2022 10:22am
- cmm
  
  I intend to listen to the whole interview, but a bit later.
  
  What amazes me is how the well known and completely uncontroversial stuff like Vit D is being sidelined. There is only one message: vaccination.
  
  I am not at all saying people should choose between Vit D and vaccination. Surely everyone that promotes vaccination also thinks Vit D is a good idea too – yet how often do we hear about that?
  
  Vaccination is part of the herd medicine mindset. It is stuff that governments do to people. The people in these positions (Baker et al) seem very adverse to people doing anything for themselves (eg. Vit D).
  
  I would not be at all surprised if the Pfizer cotract requires that governments not promote any other form of treatment/immunity boosting (eg. Vit D).
  
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  January 2, 2022 11:05am
  - Fletch
    
    Yep, one of the criteria for Emergency Use Authorization is that “there can be no adequate, approved and available alternative treatments (drugs or vaccines).” If there are then the vaccines can no longer be used under the EUA and would have to be withdrawn. That would end their fun and games and be an end to all the money. So any talk of IVM or any other alternative treatments must be clamped down. And the media have done a good job of this, shutting down any talk of drug treatments. It’s totally immoral and is costing lives.
    
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    January 2, 2022 1:19pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Here’s a link to a story re what is allegedly a copy of the Pfizer contract with Albania. I haven’t seen it debunked anywhere to date and it has been around for 6 months
    Off Guardian do a great summary of the content and discuss the reasons it is likely genuine and not a “honey trap” leak to discredit opposition.
    
    https://off-guardian.org/2021/07/29/covid-vaccines-the-leaked-pfizer-contract/
    
    This analysis of the contract claims:
    
    “The reason why governments around the world were suppressing the use of alternative treatments for Covid-19 – including Ivermectin – is because the contract does not allow them to pull out even if a more effective treatment than Pfizer is discovered.”
    
    This would support your comment in your last paragraph.
    
    https://rightsfreedoms.wordpress.com/2021/08/01/pfizer-engineered-agreements-with-governments-stating-they-had-to-pay-for-covid-vaccines-whether-they-worked-or-not-no-recourse-for-injuries/
    
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    January 2, 2022 1:29pm
- mawm
  
  [as DPF would say, deleted for being fake crap – Mod]
  
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  January 2, 2022 12:47pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    What was fake and why? It would be good to know so we can look out for it in other forums and shut it down instantly as it deserves to be.
    I was called out in a similar fashion last month even thought what I posted was demonstrably true. Dig it up if you’d like mod. Not giving anyone grief, but it’s easy to say “misinformation”. mainstream media do it all the time, but it needs to be explained why.
    
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    January 2, 2022 1:15pm
    - mawm
      
      It wasn’t fake crap but I won’t get into an argument with a mod.
      
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      January 2, 2022 3:34pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        mawm that’s sad. If it wasn’t fake crap then why is it an “argument”? Surely it should be relatively easy to prove or disprove?
        But anyway, a fine example of where we’re at in the world these days. A dangerous place where free speech can be shut down without explanation. So much for the enlightenment. Back to the dark ages it is then.
        
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        January 2, 2022 9:46pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  That’s correct re the perverse incentives in the US medical system. I read about it in early 2020, $3000 for a covid admission and $32,000 if on a ventilator. That and the fake story about mass graves on an Island off New York and the empty refrigerated trucks and Nightingale hospitals in the UK were what really triggered my decision to investigate hard.
  The huge white hospital ship with the red cross on it which sailed into NY was a blatant propaganda optic. It never saw a patient. It was all for the media and mass consumption and fear porn.
  
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  January 2, 2022 1:12pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    two Hospital ships were in NY harbour. Not used because the powers that be wanted to use hospitals and rest homes I think.
    Anti Trump thing as well
    
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    January 2, 2022 2:16pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Fletch. Uttar Pradesh does not have the same population as the United States. Hence the quote falls in the BS basket.
  
  A lot of myth generated about Uttar Pradesh and its response to Covid.
  
  Try reading local news papers to get a sense of reality.
  I like this extract about a sub region of Uttar Pradesh and the great response to the 2nd wave(Delta)
  
  https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ghaziabad/how-covid-ready-noida-is-after-second-wave/articleshow/88604480.cms
  
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  January 2, 2022 2:35pm
  - Fletch
    
    IVM was used in Uttar Pradesh and also Japan (from August) and had great results in both places. It’s undeniable. It’s been reported everywhere. And it’s not just IVM. … [Deleted – you’re not a doctor. mod.]
    
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    January 2, 2022 6:21pm
    - mawm
      
      There is a very interesting tidbit from Malone in the Rogan interview about the contents of the Uttar Pradesh treatment package.
      
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      January 2, 2022 9:20pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Can the mods here please start explaining what they are basing their decisions on? “You’re not a doctor” doesn’t mean what someone said is wrong. If you’re going to stop comment with statements that basically sound like “misinformation” you’re sounding more and more like the Herald. Again, no offence intended but that’s exactly what it reads like.
      Censorship without some explanation is bullshit.
      
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      January 2, 2022 9:51pm
    - Fletch
      
      I didn’t say I was a doctor. I am reporting what Drs are using in America. This is what they are doing and saving lives.
      
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      January 3, 2022 1:36am
oldfella

Powerline’s Week In Pictures: Always good for a laugh, so might sustain us till Wedding of the Year later this month.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/01/the-week-in-pictures-happy-new-year-edition-3.php
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January 2, 2022 10:45am
- Ed Snack
  
  That Powerline week in pictures is often funny, I especially liked the Sting reference in this one, laugh out loud funny.
  
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  January 2, 2022 11:51am
- curry4me
  
  oldfella: Thanks for posting this stuff. Please keep it coming. Happy new year.
  
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  January 2, 2022 6:52pm
Cassandra

Politics is so tame in NZ. I’ve just read a Twitter series (right word?) between Rep Cortez (AOC) and others which is bizarre – all about Republicans sexual fantasies re her (or not, according to the Republicans). I think I prefer tame.
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January 2, 2022 10:49am
- Graeme Hall
  
  No! Not Jack..
  
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  January 2, 2022 1:36pm
Kiwi Dave

Following MW’s link at 8.25 to an opinion on the use of Pakeha, I came across this:

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/ideasroom/anne-salmond-te-tiriti-and-democracy

Anne Salmon is probably not KB readers’ favourite historian/opinion writer, but they might profitably read her commentary, in which she finds Cooke’s 1987 claim of a Treaty partnership as something which ‘cannot be securely traced back to the text of Te Tiriti.’
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January 2, 2022 11:19am
- alex Masterley
  
  KD, As I recall Justice Cooke used the words ” a relationship akin to a partnership” when describing the relationship between crown and Maori.
  I dont regard it as that simply as there is no reference to the concept in the treaty.
  Not that that has stopped activists grabing the bone and running.
  
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  January 2, 2022 7:19pm
Pharmachick

Hi everyone, meet Karla Williams. Karla is a rising superstar. Born in NZ, home schooled and raised on a sheep farm in the Nelson area until she was 11 years old. Then her parents moved [back] to Canada. She holds dual citizenship. We hired her about 5 years ago, and she has literally gone from strength to strength. Mostly she studies cancer, and has made amazing inroads into biomarkers <– those are things we can measure that predict cancer, or cancer progression similar to PSA levels for prostate cancer or BRCA genes for breast cancer. She's also Mom-ing (is that an adverb?) through the pandemic in the MOST amazing way…

https://pharmsci.ubc.ca/directory/karla-williams
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January 2, 2022 11:30am
Maggie Pie

RANDOM IMPERTINENT QUESTION

Where else can you get a job that the Taxpayer gives you $4k a week to sit at home doing SFA for over three months…..then you head out for a luxury cruise on Auckland Harbor, prepared to insult the very people who toil to support your lifestyle?

AND you don’t even have the good-grace to call the country that adopted you, by its proper name. SHEESH!!

https://twitter.com/golrizghahraman/status/1474853556058411011
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January 2, 2022 11:45am
- BananaLlama
  
  Lemons destroyed her, look at all of the seething replies. lol!
  I shouldn’t encourage twitter posting that site is garbage, worse than the Chans.
  
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  January 2, 2022 1:30pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Maybe a one way ticket to home???
  
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  January 2, 2022 2:19pm
- Nickc2
  
  Perhaps one day, the silly (insert own word) will grow up? However, I’m not holding my breath, It may be terminal.
  Ungrateful (insert that word again).
  
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  January 2, 2022 2:25pm
scottie

I am vaccinated but surely statistically you have more chance of getting Covid from vaccinated people simply because that is most of the people i.e 90% of those you come in contact with. Vaccination in my understanding reduces symptoms not the likelihood of getting it. If you have it you can pass it on. Am I missing something?
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January 2, 2022 12:27pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  No scottie, you summed it up well in a paragraph. The untermensch won’t affect the jabbed, unless the jabbed choose to to interact with the untermensch.
  
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  January 2, 2022 1:35pm
Graeme Hall

New Zealand has been around long enough to require all MP’s be born in the country. If the Greens have any purpose then to me that is their one take-home message.
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January 2, 2022 12:39pm
- mawm
  
  Hmmm….. There is a significant proportion of New Zealanders born elsewhere, who have embraced the country and culture, who’d bring some of the true benefits of multiculturalism to New Zealand….. like green rugby jerseys with gold collars.//
  
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  January 2, 2022 12:57pm
  - greybeard
    
    True but that does not mean that Graeme Hall’s argument is wrong.
    There is always room for new people in New Zealand.
    But to do justice to the important role of elected MP maybe to be a NZ citizen is a good start.
    
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    January 2, 2022 3:59pm
    - MCōs
      
      To be a MP one must be a NZ citizen who is not in prison & has been in the country in the last three years & that won’t change.
      
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      January 2, 2022 8:49pm
    - mawm
      
      GB – gaining a NZ citizenship is something to be cherished. I agree that Graeme has a very pertinent point, my counter was that there are many who were not born in NZ who make very good citizens and can contribute to the country in many ways including politics.
      
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      January 2, 2022 9:26pm
- alloytoo
  
  Sadly that might mean more Marama Davidson’s
  
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  January 2, 2022 3:56pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  My marker is that one should have attended primary school. It’s at primary that one’s family culture edges rub up against mainstream culture. It’s where colloquial English is acquired, where the NZ accent is perfected. Primary school is early enough to override deep memories of other countries & cultures. It’s also where one’s parents (hopefully) interact with other parents, on the sports field sidelines, in the PTA or whatever. In short, it’s where one becomes a New Zealander.
  
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  January 2, 2022 7:37pm
  - MCōs
    
    6,500 kids are currented home schooled.
    
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    January 2, 2022 8:57pm
I remember when

Stuff: Covid-19: Popular market’s stall holders start new event ‘ignoring’ safety rules:
Or, do the stall holders think they are prepared to decide the level of risk they are willing to take.
Are all the stall holders anti-vaccination, conspiracy theorists or do they think that 51 deaths, from 14,118 cases, means they can live with the virus.
When is the media going to help us to ‘learn to live with the covid virus’.
Why are they ‘safety’ rules?
‘Safety’ from what?
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January 2, 2022 12:54pm
- artemisia
  
  The stall holders believe they are actually following the rules relating to retail. Looks to me as if that is the case.
  
  It is their competitors who complained.
  
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  January 2, 2022 12:59pm
- mandk
  
  Maybe the stall holders think that 51 covid deaths is fake news.
  
  And they would be correct.
  
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  January 2, 2022 1:36pm
- coge
  
  According to the MSM, “Here’s what you need to know” all of these individuals are representative of white male boomers, deplorable right wing conspiracy theorists, evangelical Christian, climate denialists, sexist racists and Trumpanzees.
  
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  January 2, 2022 4:38pm
BananaLlama

Interesting article that Maggy posted about Parkeha as an ethnicity. I was shocked to find that More than 11,000 New Zealanders wrote in ‘Pākehā’ as their ethnicity in the last Census but, Less than 12,000.

‘Wow that’s a pretty big number’ i thought so i went and did some back of the envelop math. Turns out that the number 10,000 is 1% of one million and if we have six million citizens then the same percentage of people identifying as Parkeha is about the same as the percentage of New Zealanders diagnosed with a severe mental illness.
So, i guess you could say you are really crazy if you identify as ‘Pākehā’. Quite possibly nuts, infact. So kindly remember this before you run up wild eyed after your latest human rights commission mouthing off about ‘Pākehā’ when there is a greater likelihood of that person identifying as a New Zealander and being non vaxxed.
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January 2, 2022 12:57pm
Yvette

The Ministry of Health’s first COVID-19 update of 2022 should show if there are anymore Omicron cases in the community after a British DJ tested positive for the variant after leaving MIQ.
Dimension, AKA Robert Etheridge, was in the community at the end of last year while he tested positive for the COVID-19 variant Omicron, but the MOH said the risk of transmission was low. – Newshub

So, “the risk of transmission was low” but despite Omicron “ripping through many countries including Australia, the US and the UK” – competing with the spread of the vilification by international media of Etheridge for the “fury” he’d engendered apparently among New Zealanders – just a few hours later An Air New Zealand crew member [evidently a neutered person, and maybe without a member – bang! goes a New Year Revolution] also tested positive for Omicron on 27 December and eight close contacts were isolating (the Guardian) but all these aircraft crew flew under the radar and were hardly mentioned locally, let alone smashed internationally. Perhaps they had never been photographed with Ardern and Gayford, as Etheridge had the misfortune to be.

But in his defence, should he need one, Etheridge can also point out the crisis he caused was so insignificant that there was no Health Service Covid Update on the crucial day following his mis-step.

And still haven’t at this point: 1:20pm
But has this Government ever managed to organise the delivery of anything on time?
Aerosols.
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January 2, 2022 1:19pm
Yvette

Pākehā
Pākehā is not a legal concept and has no definition under New Zealand law. – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pākehā
na te ara
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January 2, 2022 1:36pm
- Inandout
  
  Yvette, but a taniwha is legal,
  
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  January 2, 2022 2:45pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Certainly, the Wanganui river has a legal personality.
    
    No word on whether it’s an introvert or an extrovert.
    
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    January 2, 2022 7:39pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Expendable females

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2022/01/scottish-witches-in-line-for-apology-hundreds-of-years-after-being-burned-at-the-stake.html
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January 2, 2022 4:33pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  And some men:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_executed_for_witchcraft
  
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  January 2, 2022 6:11pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    In Scotland, disproportionately women.
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/sep/13/300-years-on-will-thousands-of-women-burned-as-witches-finally-get-justice
    
    In Iceland, mainly men.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_trials_in_Iceland#:~:text=in%201667%E2%80%931685.-,Male%20dominance,confirmed%20to%20have%20been%20executed.
    
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    January 2, 2022 6:25pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Nothing new in the world Maggy, as I’m sure you know better than me. Although nowadays the pyre has been replaced by the pile-on.
  
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  January 2, 2022 7:41pm
Fletch

So, on the news tonight, the govt is getting rid of DHBs and moving to a centralized health system run from Wellington. It’s all about control. Same with the water etc. Worst govt in decades. They crave control and power. And it will cost half a biliion dollars in the first year, which Shane Reti says could be used to double ICU beds and open another medical school.
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January 2, 2022 6:13pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  The costs of change are never accurately estimated. Most administrative structures are best left undisturbed unless there is an overwhelmingly compelling case for change.
  At least the health restructure is getting rid of elected boards though.
  
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  January 2, 2022 7:07pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Crikey Mike! Is this you turning over a New Year’s leaf?
    
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    January 2, 2022 7:42pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      No, it’s a long-standing opinion.
      
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      January 2, 2022 8:52pm
Maggie Pie

Anybody else like me that finds…. ‘Dan-the-Weatherman’ makes their skin crawl?

Something a bit weird going on there I reckon.

Just saying.
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January 2, 2022 7:39pm
- chukar
  
  Yep, don’t enjoy Dan, and the other presenters seem to be dragging TV weather back to dowdy, don’t expect swimsuits but smartly dressed would help!
  1940s styles don’t cut it !
  
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  January 2, 2022 9:13pm
- Bea Rossini
  
  He’s gay – is that your problem?
  
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  January 2, 2022 9:54pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  He needs a damn good feed.
  
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  January 2, 2022 10:07pm
OECD rank 22 kiwi

The milestone has finally been past in New Zealand at the start of 2022.
In Jacinda’s New Zealand you are now officially move likely to die of Covid than terrorism under her divine rule.
Total Covid death count confirmed at 53 people as at 2 January 2022.
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January 2, 2022 7:43pm
info@cruzpro.com

Benedict Yu said:

“Omicron is likely to end things. But when Delta was around, anyone older than 40 who did not get vaccinated was stupid. It is that simple.”

For some reason there was no option to respond to that statement (only Report, which I didn’t want to do).

I am over 40 and not vaccinated but at my age and educational level far from “stupid”. Benedict please explain why anyone with a modicum of intelligence would submit to getting injected by an experimental substance when virtually no-one in New Zealand is dieing from the virus that this experimental substance is supposed to protect you from?

In two years 51 people have died from ( or with) the Covid19 virus. If people were dropping like flies around me I might consider drastic measures but that is not what is happening. I am not anti-vax at all and am happy to get inoculated with a true Covid19 vaccine when one becomes available here.

I understand that you got vaccinated because you wanted/needed to travel and because of work requirements. Many of us “unclean” people do not have the same pressures and are happy for you to be experimented on while we remain the control group.
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January 2, 2022 8:27pm
- Bea Rossini
  
  You can’t even spell “dying”.
  
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  January 2, 2022 9:52pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  And just a small reminder of the lies and changes of position we’ve been subjected to for almost 2 years.
  
  Joe Biden – “You’re not going to get covid if you get these vaccinations.”
  
  Fauci – “Vaccinated people become dead ends for the virus.”
  
  Walenski – “vaccinated people do not carry the virus.”
  
  Mainstream media.
  
  “echoed by entire phalanxes of talking heads in no uncertain terms.”
  
  Now we have to listen to people in this forum as well as mainstream media trying to change history and telling us all – “we always knew the vaccines didn’t prevent infection, but they prevent serious illness and death.”
  Lies. Or convenient amnesia. Like “3 weeks to flatten the curve.” Lies.
  
  We WERE told the vaccines were the answer. Show me one link to someone somewhere pre vaccination stating – “we’ve come up with an experimental injection that will make you less likely to die from covid and probably less sick if you get covid but you’ll still be able to catch covid and you’ll still be able to pass covid on to other people. Oh, and you’ll need booster shots after 4 months, and probably every 6 months after that, or maybe every 4 months, but that might become more often, we don’t know.”
  
  I must have missed that one. Please send me all relevant links.
  
  Orwell didn’t write a novel, as was said by someone more prescient than I, it was an instruction manual.
  
  Nailed here.
  
  https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/yes-the-vaccines-were-supposed-to
  
  Read it and remember how many lies have been told over the last 2 years. Not just by Ardern and Baker and his buddies. By people you know, by friends and family members. Cognitive dissonance on acid.
  
  “Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia.”
  
  Tragic days, never to be forgotten. Life lessons to pass on while you can.
  
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  January 2, 2022 10:47pm
  - smttc
    
    You make a very good point and I hope either Chris Bishop or preferable David Seymour quiz the government about this issue.
    
    I will not be getting the booster shot unless not getting it prevents me from leaving the country or entering another country of my choice.
    
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    January 3, 2022 7:12am
- bronny1
  
  100% agree – same situation, same risk based decision.
  
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  January 2, 2022 11:51pm
Observer of Life

I want to travel, but for me it will have to be ‘Novovax’.
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January 3, 2022 4:32pm

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