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December 26, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 26 December 2021

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General Debate

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Steve Otto(North Shore)

A few foggy heads this morning? Not me, I am immune
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December 26, 2021 8:10am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Me. I spent the day with 21 extroverted people from the West Coast and Chistchurch. Who were very welcoming. But TBH I don’t think I have the genetic disposition to eat large amounts of turkey, ham and steamed pudding.
  
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  December 26, 2021 8:30am
- tavita
  
  One of the benefits that came with age. I don’t seem to get hangovers any more.
  
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  December 26, 2021 8:32am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    I suspect it’s more to do with the wisdom that comes with age – pacing is the key.
    
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    December 26, 2021 9:38am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Hangover? What’s that? I am 69, and enjoying being a fit 69
    
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    December 26, 2021 10:51am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I killed 2/3 of a 1L bottle of Jacks. Got the speed wobbles getting out of the spa LOL
  
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  December 26, 2021 8:34am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Be careful, Steve, that’s a heavy does for an elderly man.
    
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    December 26, 2021 8:38am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I am a seasoned drinker Mike. There where 6 beers in that lot as well.
      Don’t worry yourself
      
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      December 26, 2021 10:29am
- BananaLlama
  
  Jesus Christ forgive me the pounding in my skull is unreal today. I had no idea what i was on half way through the night and now i pay for my crimes in the morning.
  
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  December 26, 2021 11:00am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Keep at it, you will beat the gremlins that make your head hurt
    
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    December 26, 2021 12:57pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The United Spot.
Let’s go Christmas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A7jtTuEk0Y
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December 26, 2021 8:15am
Maggy Wassilieff

Yummy, left-over trifle for breakfast….
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December 26, 2021 8:31am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Ughhhhhhh ? ?
  
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  December 26, 2021 8:35am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Benedict is not a man to be trifled with.
    
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    December 26, 2021 8:38am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Uptick from me, Mikey. Merry Christmas.
      
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      December 26, 2021 9:39am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Actually, it was 2nd breakfast… have spent the last 2 hours carting hoses around and watering plants.
    
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    December 26, 2021 8:39am
  - Kiwi Dave
    
    Ughhhhhhh????
    
    I think you just failed your NZ citizenship test. There is no meal for which trifle, fresh or left-over, could ever be inappropriate.
    
    Perhaps you would have enjoyed the heavenly barbecued pork steaks, slathered in char siu sauce and honey I had yesterday at some friends’ home, for which my limited Cantonese vocabulary, ho sik and ho mei, was quite inadequate.
    
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    December 26, 2021 9:14am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      My grandma’s trifle for her Bristol Hotel Wellington guests was so memorable we are still seeking to replicate it 75 years later. It may have been some subtle alcohol mixture among the sponge, jelly, fruit, custard, cream etc.
      
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      December 26, 2021 10:34am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I’ve spent 56 years trying to replicate the trifle we had at NZ Friends School each Sunday lunch.
        
        It was so yummy that kids would request that parents picked them up after lunch, instead of after morning Meeting.
        
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        December 26, 2021 11:05am
      - artemisia
        
        Two sorts of people – trifle with jelly and most of the rest of the world.
        
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        December 26, 2021 12:29pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Not tomato juice with a bit of vodka then Maggy…?
  
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  December 26, 2021 8:38am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Not a drop of vodka has been down my throat since the F-in-law died.
    I’d only have a shot to keep the peace at the xmas table.
    
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    December 26, 2021 9:50am
- artemisia
  
  Trifle for breakfast on Boxing Day is the absolute best British tradition.
  
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  December 26, 2021 9:12am
  - Harriet
    
    But don’t the Brits feel a trifle bizarre? 😎
    
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    December 26, 2021 10:25am
  - surfing
    
    Gotta eat it quick before the fruit starts fermenting.
    
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    December 26, 2021 10:32am
- Sacha
  
  We had pavlova with a refreshed topping of blueberries and raspberries
  Delish!
  
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  December 26, 2021 10:07am
- Thought Criminal
  
  Two men in a desert
  Two men are wandering the desert. They’ve been there for days, and can’t remember how they got there; the only thing in their minds right now is that they need water to survive another day in this scorching heat.
  
  Midday passes, and the men are succumbing to despair – but wait, what’s this? They see a shimmering outline of a wall in the distance. This is the first sign of life they can remember seeing, and so they rush over to it. They find it’s one of the walls of a small market town.
  
  Overjoyed, the men rush through the gates and see that the only things inside the walls are three battered market stalls, each manned by a single trader. They rush over to the nearest one.
  
  “Please, kind stranger, we’ve been wandering the desert for days and we desperately need water, do you have some?”
  
  The stranger pauses for a moment, then replies, “No sirs, I do not have any water. But I can give you some of this delicious strawberry jelly.”
  
  The men let out a small simultaneous sigh, thank the man for his offer (whilst kind, they really need water rather than food) and rush over to the next stall in the hope that the next merchant has some, any, water.
  
  Again they repeat their plea: “Please, kind stranger, we’ve been wandering the desert for days and we desperately need water, do you have some?”
  
  This next merchant pauses and regards the men, before saying, “No sirs, I have no water. Only this fine and tasty custard to offer you.”
  
  The men sigh even deeper this time – custard is too thick and too solid to sate their growing thirsts. They quickly thank the man for his time and desperately rush over to the last stall in the town.
  
  In a pleading voice they cry, “Please, kind stranger, we’ve been wandering the desert for days and we desperately need water, do you have some?”
  
  This trader pauses for the longest time, and just when the men are about to turn away, he says: “No, I am sorry, gentlemen, but I have no water; however, if you would like, I sell tasty whipped cream which you might like.”
  
  The men cry out aloud in despair; no water is to be found in this town, and their hopes have been dashed on the rocks of insupply. They trudge wearily out of the small market town, hoping against hope that they can find a place with water before the day is out.
  
  Five hundred paces from the walls, one man turns to the other and asks:
  
  “Did you notice that that market was a little strange?”
  
  The other replies,
  
  “Yes, it was a trifle bazaar.”
  
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  December 26, 2021 10:24am
  - Lee C
    
    If I were wearing a hat I would take it off, TC.
    
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    December 26, 2021 10:28am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Oi oi!
    
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    December 26, 2021 3:11pm
Yvette

Just previous to this, today’s “General Debate” is the 7am post “Guest Post: Checkpoints in Northland” in which Lee C says Perfectly sums up the cult of mediocrity that so many have bowed down to – thank you for this analysis.

Apparently the Police Commissioner Coster is pro-checkpoints in the North, and Police Association President Cahill is contra, saying they are illegal.
A question that extends from this is, “What is the reason, or agenda, to each of these two men that they have the opposite positions that they indicate?”

I hope I expressed that clearly – one of the items gifted to me yesterday is a Chinese luck beckoning glossy gold cat for which instructions mention “When it is in the initiative operation” meaning “To start with” …. Deciphering the instructions was the initiative operation
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December 26, 2021 8:32am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Their opposite positions are entirely natural – they both serve their masters well. In Cuddles’ Coster’s case it’s the Labour party which he’s supported all his life, and in the case of the Police union boss, Chris Cahill serves his members.
  
  I never thought I’d say this of a union – any union – in 2021, but I agree with Cahill on this one.
  
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  December 26, 2021 9:43am
  - peterwn
    
    Will Chris Cahill have the same retirement job that Greg O’Connor has?
    
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    December 26, 2021 11:09am
- KevO'Brien
  
  In my view the Bill of Rights takes precedence and any doubts must be resolved under it. The Nuremberg Convention is an ancillary safeguard backed up by the International Criminal Court.
  Green is the expected default colour not Ardern’s cardy.
  
  Experts have to be fitted in with the duty of care a govt owes to its people overall. Why lock them down because the numbers go that way when the other numbers show we can’t afford housing or food imports?
  
  Health is just a subset of the economy not a substitute for it.
  
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  December 26, 2021 10:44am
  - Jack5
    
    What is the Nuremberg Convention?
    
    The Nurembeg Code is a set of principles about medical experiments.
    
    What status, if any, does the code have in New Zealand?
    
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    December 26, 2021 11:54am
Scooter

So Govt’s worldwide keep vaccinating but it seem Omicron is resistant. The rise in cases can’t just be put down to a new strain if the vaccine was meant to wipe out Covid at the start, unless it wasn’t.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/12/211223151542.htm
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December 26, 2021 8:35am
- Yvette
  
  Scooter – but it seem Omicron is resistant
  
  Google Original Vaccination Sin – OVS – it is a actual thing – well, theory
  – that Original antigenic sin, also known as antigenic imprinting or the Hoskins effect, refers to the propensity of the body’s immune system to preferentially utilize immunological memory based on a previous infection when a second slightly different version of that foreign pathogen (for example: a virus or bacterium) is encountered. This leaves the immune system “trapped” by the first response it has made to each antigen, and unable to mount potentially more effective responses during subsequent infections. Antibodies or T-cells induced during infections with the first variant of the pathogen are subject to a form of original antigenic sin, termed repertoire freeze ❖ – perhaps to not see such a variant as Omicron.
  Check it out.
  
  ❖ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_antigenic_sin
  
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  December 26, 2021 9:43am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    OAS is a thing and it certainly looks to be happening.
    
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    December 26, 2021 8:17pm
Truman lodge

40 to 50 armed defenders squad members in flat Bush last night. Could it be club related? I was not aware of any clubs out that way?
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December 26, 2021 8:40am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Armed Offenders Squad, you mean?
  
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  December 26, 2021 9:44am
  - Chris Scott
    
    Loddenthinks
    Armed Offenders Squad, you mean?
    
    Either that or a giant monster with 40 to 50 arms.
    
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    December 26, 2021 11:00am
- peterwn
  
  Suppose Mayor Phil Goff will again ask the Police Minister what he is going to do about it? Trouble is, he has no leverage. He can hardly ask Aucklanders to vote National next time.
  The best way Jacinda can show love and kindness to Aucklanders is not to repeal 3S. Perhaps Auckland crims are getting stroppy because they think 3S will soon be repealed.
  
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  December 26, 2021 11:14am
NeverMindTheBollocks

I was thinking of going to the races at Tauherenikau tomorrow. It’s marketed as “families and friends nestled under the trees with their picnic hampers enjoying the atmosphere and picturesque surroundings”. Sounds like fun, plenty of social distancing, if that’s important in a district that has had zero covid cases since just about forever.

But, vaxx pass required. Probably needed in order to operate; but it underlines the idiocy of the rules and, by extension, the rule makers.
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December 26, 2021 8:47am
- Surely Knott
  
  I wish events would have areas set aside for “gathering” of less than 25 who don’t wAnt to participate in the passport system.. I think this would still comply with the Law
  
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  December 26, 2021 9:48am
- Scooter
  
  Italy now has a rule that food and drinks not allowed in cinemas or sporting events, theatres etc but OK for restaurants, can anyone tell me what the risk is between these? I think these moronic govt’s are just making shit up as they go along. I really wonder where and when this will all end.
  
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  December 26, 2021 2:13pm
alex Masterley

I love Boxing Day. Left over sirloin, jersey bennies, salad. Yum yum.
And the races, the start of the Boxing Day test and the start of the Sydney Hobart.
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December 26, 2021 8:57am
- Nickc2
  
  Who’s televising the start of the Sydney Hobart Alex?
  
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  December 26, 2021 9:45am
  - alex Masterley
    
    It will be livestreamed on ewe tube somewhere.
    I just do a quick search and hey presto.
    
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    December 26, 2021 10:04am
    - Nickc2
      
      TKS, appreciated.
      
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      December 26, 2021 10:36am
Maggy Wassilieff

Comorbidity is another concern for Covid-19. Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), asthma, arterial hypertension, diabetes, obesity, chronic kidney disease patients are more prone to Covid-19.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/time-to-consider-effective-easy-treatments-for-covid
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December 26, 2021 9:27am
Benedict Yu

Looks like the Norwegians are celebrating the emergence of gay Santa.

https://asianinvasion2019.blogspot.com/2021/12/santa-goes-woke-gay-santa-cannot.html

I recall not long after I arrived here, hearing about a woman who would not let her kid be photographed with a Maori ? Santa. And outrage descended on her. Now maybe she was racist. But maybe she was simply pointing out that the Santa tradition is about a fat white guy from Lapland. Explains why there are no Chinese Santas.
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December 26, 2021 9:38am
- MCōs
  
  Plenty of inanimate depictions of Santa in the shopping malls in Thailand where Christian’s make up a tiny percentage of the population.
  Anything to help flog off kids toys.
  Same as here I suppose.
  Quite frankly I don’t know that the kids give a bag of beans whether the Santa in the Mall is gay, Maori or whatever.
  They’ll just ask their parents if they’re perplexed at all, or in the case of one of my four year old granddaughters just accept it because she knows he’s ‘just a character’. ‘When are we going for a swim?’
  
  It’s the parents who get worked up about the finer points of Santa’s background.
  
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  December 26, 2021 10:14am
- Chris Scott
  
  Benedict Yu
  
  I recall not long after I arrived here, hearing about a woman who would not let her kid be photographed with a Maori ? Santa
  
  She probably felt the same about her child praying to a brown Jesus. Y’know, tradition and all that.
  
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  December 26, 2021 11:08am
- lifesgood
  
  Oh for goodness sake! Do the gays have to take over everything? Just shut up about your sexuality, nobody cares. How do you explain Mrs Claus then or is she/he transexual. That’ll be next I bet.
  
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  December 26, 2021 11:33am
Mike H S

Here is a story of Christmas cheer after despair.

A person known to me had slightly swollen glands in her jaw area plus a sore ear. She rang Healthline Christmas Eve and was told to get a PCR test and self isolate until the result (if negative) came through. She had been at the local church, along with another 20 or so volunteers, helping organise Christmas meals for the needy. Being close contacts, they would all need to self isolate. This to occur over Christmas day and ruin all family gatherings. This lady was having a family gathering at her place.

Her daughter (my daughter-in-law) phoned Healthline and explained the situation but they stuck to the line that everyone had to isolate until a negative test result was achieved. She asked about the rapid antigen test and was told that only those who had not vaccinated were entitled to this test and the only way to get one was if you were about to have a surgical procedure, go overseas or visit a retirement village.

Daughter-in-law took her mother down to get the antigen test and told a little white lie saying that they intended to visit an elderly relative in a rest home. She was given the test and within 20 minutes had the negative result. Now everyone could enjoy their Christmas with their families.

Sadly it is the general population using common sense and not those making the rules. A Merry Christmas was had by all but it could have been so different if the bureaucrats had their way.

PS This is the short version.
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December 26, 2021 9:42am
- surfing
  
  But maybe you bumped someone off the list who really did need a test.
  
  But I do understand why people lie about these things, the system is poor.
  
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  December 26, 2021 10:29am
  - Mike H S
    
    There is no queue for this process so your protestation holds no validity.
    
    These tests are available in the UK for 90p. I had a surgical process recently and was told that if I wanted the antigen test I would have to pay $125.
    We are being duped and ripped off by people who don’t want to lose control.
    
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    December 27, 2021 7:28am
- Fletch
  
  If these tests had been made available at a supermarket or pharmacy like they are in Australia, or like how they were originally going to be made available here, then a great deal or nonsense and time could have been avoided.
  
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  December 26, 2021 10:31am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Bureaucrats are the new fun police
  
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  December 26, 2021 10:35am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Who were the old fun police?
    
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    December 26, 2021 10:39am
    - Chris Scott
      
      Who were the old fun police?
      
      Sting and Andy Summers
      
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      December 26, 2021 11:12am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Old bureaucrats of course
      
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      December 26, 2021 12:17pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        You aren’t making much sense, Steve. Are you sure you didn’t drink too much yesterday?
        
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        December 26, 2021 12:23pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Your comprehension is failing again Mike
        
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        December 27, 2021 8:39am
- Benedict Yu
  
  That rule makes no sense. I guess I should expect that.
  
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  December 26, 2021 11:00am
SpencerArnold

The president agrees, “let’s go brandon”. You can’t make this stuff up.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59787060
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December 26, 2021 9:54am
- herb1
  
  Probably PR advice that laughing at yourself and accepting it , takes the sting out of it.
  Arderns doing the same with giving away tee shirts with Tova then Jessica, on it
  
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  December 26, 2021 4:44pm
Diogenes

FRIDGE TETRIS: Constantly re-arranging the contents of a fridge in a desperate attempt to find room for yet another left-over.
(Heard for the first time yesterday.)
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December 26, 2021 10:04am
krazykiwi

A UK family member with a sense of humour: I received a 7-pack Flowfex™ Lateral flow test kits 🙂
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December 26, 2021 10:43am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The grinch.
https://rumble.com/vr8fax-fauci-officially-proves-hes-the-grinch.html?
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December 26, 2021 10:43am
Prince

Some people are getting a harsh lesson on economics under the Labour Government.

During the 2004 or 2007 election campaign (sorry, can’t exactly recall), Key or English visited a Gisborne packhouse, where they were collared by a worker complaining about their very small pay increases, something like $2.50 an hour over 8 years.
It was all over the media. Key/English responded meekly that yes, it wasn’t much, but it was more that the rate of inflation, so the worker was in fact better off. This triggered more media outrage.

So I was interested to read this analysis from the CTU. In summary, annual wage up 2.1%, inflation at 4.9%.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/126711704/many-workers-effectively-earning-less-as-inflation-outstrips-wage-increases

Perhaps Robertson needs to brush up on his Dickens…
“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.”
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December 26, 2021 10:55am
- MCōs
  
  Charles Dickens died more than 150yrs ago.
  If he was around today promoting his socialist agenda he’d be shot down in flames by a good number of contributors to this forum.
  No doubt about it.
  
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  December 26, 2021 11:23am
- Alwynn
  
  Robertson doesn’t need to brush up on Dickens. He is way ahead of the game.
  Grant will be happily chuckling away when he compares his salary today with what he was getting at the time of the election in October last year.
  At that time his salary was $236,896. Today it is $334,734. The increase is about 41% which is much, much more that inflation.
  That is the basic salary only. It doesn’t include the various allowances he gets.
  
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  December 26, 2021 2:41pm
Ed Snack

More from boriquagato on OAS and how it does appear that vaccinated individuals catch Omicron (and delta in some studies) more readily than unvaccinated individuals. Includes the Danish study I have cited previously, and some analysis on UK figures.

Notes something that bugs me as well, actual data that indicates something that does not accord with the official Line is often removed from public view, and sometimes entirely suppressed. That is criminally negligent when we are needing to ascertain the truth about Covid infections.

Suppressing data to establish a narrative is the height of foolishness and entirely unethical.

https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/more-evidence-on-omicron-vaccine?s=08
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December 26, 2021 11:12am
Don Beckett

“There is no greater drama in human record than the sight of a few Christians scorned or oppressed by a succession of emperors, bearing all trials by a fierce tenacity, multiplying quietly, building order while their enemies generated chaos, fighting the sword with the Word, brutality with hope, and at last defeating the strongest state that history has ever know. Caesar and Christ had met in the arena and Christ had won.”
Will Durant, Caesar and Christ (1944)

One Solitary Life
All the armies that have ever marched All the navies that have ever sailed All the parliaments that have ever sat All the kings that ever reigned put together Have not affected the life of mankind on earth As powerfully as that one solitary life.

I am an historian, I am not a believer, but I must confess as a historian that this penniless preacher from Nazareth is irrevocably the very center of history. Jesus Christ is easily the most dominant figure in all history.
H. G. Wells
Blessings of the Christmas Season to all – even the non-believers. 🙂
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December 26, 2021 11:23am
- rangitoto
  
  Aristotle has had a lot more influence.
  
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  December 26, 2021 6:53pm
slightlyrighty

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/127386582/prime-minister-jacinda-arderns-solution-to-fixing-a-christmas-pavlova-disaster?cid=app-android

A metaphor for her government. If it goes wrong, cover up at all costs!!
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December 26, 2021 1:00pm
MCōs

Boxing Day test about to begin in Melbourne and nobody gives England chance.
Back in the seventies the West Indies realized you don’t win in Australia if you can’t match their fast bowling ogres so they came back next time with their own cluster of brutes.
Maybe England needs to start fighting fire with fire.
Their blokes are way down on pace overall compared with the Australians and their batters lack confidence.
If I were running the show I’d be looking to bring forward guys that could do the business in Oz and phase out the medium pacers that are ineffective.
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December 26, 2021 1:15pm
Rusty

Turkey has never been a traditional Christmas dinner in NZ — probably because it costs too much compared to chicken.

Anyone remember the traditional sunday roast lambs? — a young generation wouldn’t know what your talking about.
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December 26, 2021 2:16pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  A fore-quarter?
  
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  December 27, 2021 3:26pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/300486536/massive-fire-at-south-taranaki-meatworks
Insurers will be on to this like flies on a dead cow.
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December 26, 2021 3:23pm
- greybeard
  
  Why the downticks? This is so dodgy and badly-timed it is worse than Jacinda’s pavlova.
  
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  December 26, 2021 6:06pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Not the first time either…
    
    The business has experienced ongoing problems with fires.
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/76195611/fire-brigades-respond-to-blaze-at-taranaki-by-products
    
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    December 26, 2021 9:57pm
mawm

Boxing Day “Covid” humour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-92hyC4MMic
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December 26, 2021 4:00pm
Lee C

Guy fined $12,000 for not discriminating against his employees.

I hope he takes it to court and we all help fund it.

https://www.facebook.com/olivermmahq/videos/631969684519957
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December 26, 2021 6:06pm

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