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November 15, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 15 November 2021

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General Debate

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Benedict Yu

Cabinet is considering booster shots today.

Those communications advisors will be flat out.

“So we said the vaccines are effective and we need vaccine certificates. Now we are saying they are wearing out and they all need boosters.”

“YES”

“If they don’t get a booster do they lose their vaccine certificate?”

???????
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November 15, 2021 8:00am
- krazykiwi
  
  Of course they’ll lose their vaxxed status. This will allow The Filthy Unvaxxed™ to be vilified and socially bludgeoned into doing whatever the state demands in order to shake off the stigma.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:06am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I reckon it will be too hard. The message will be “You can have a booster but it is your choice. If you don’t have one you can still keep your vaccination certificate.”
    
    Logically that is a nonsense. But if they say the vaccine certificate will expire they are taking on a huge headache.
    
    They may announce the vaccine certificates will expire eventually. But they will be looking at booster take up.
    
    What if uptake is 40 percent. Are they going to cancel 60 percent of vaccine certificates?
    
    As I have said before science wins in the end. People will wake up to the fact that the premise of a vaccine certificate must be effective and ENDURING protection against infection. That is a false premise. You tell them they did the right thing. They got vaccinated. But now their vaccine certificate is going to expire? Good luck with that.
    
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    November 15, 2021 8:15am
    - mawm
      
      Coming to an island near you – Austria to lockdown the unvaccinated. This is the first country to progress to the next step in the WEF playbook.
      
      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/12/austria-province-to-place-millions-of-unvaccinated-people-in-covid-lockdown
      
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      November 15, 2021 8:29am
      - Random T Person
        
        A lot of serious nonsense started in Austria. Let’s pop another shrrrrrrimp on the barbie, mate!
        
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        November 15, 2021 8:38am
    - Jim
      
      Yep, especially when the booster (jab 3) is exactly the SAME drug as the first two jabs, as demonstrated in all other countries (UK, Israel etc) ……this simply doesn’t support the Gov and shill media ‘mutant strain’ fear mongering?
      
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      November 15, 2021 9:22am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        FFS. The case for booster shots has nothing to do with “‘mutant strain’ fears. Kiwiblog has become like the invasion of the irrational.
        
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        November 15, 2021 7:10pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      I posted this yesterday, worth posting again.
      
      “Tricky.
      
      Convincing the unjabbed that the jab works so they’ll get the jab.
      
      While
      
      Convincing the jabbed
      That the jab doesn’t work
      So they’ll get the booster
      
      Good luck with that one.”
      
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      November 15, 2021 9:27am
    - Fight4NZ
      
      I can usually follow your reasoning. However in this case you are putting up your own premise of the certificate must be effective and enduring, and then pulling that down.
      First how is the people way people view the certificate science?
      Then why is a treatment with a booster, perhaps annual renewal, like a number of others, not considered enduring?
      I’ll leave the assumption that your definition of certificate requirements is valid in the first place.
      My take is that when the virus has circulated the certification becomes redundant in any case.
      
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      November 15, 2021 9:41am
      - krazykiwi
        
        The utility of certification has little to do with health, and everything to do with feeding the authoritarian gem that is starting to bloom on the agar plate that is New Zealand.
        
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        November 15, 2021 12:03pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        You should call yourself Fight4Aotearoa. The country you want to fight for is nothing like the New Zealand that most of us grew up in. Without fail, you defend or promote some woke, transformative, pwogwessive, globalist-left Black Mirror vision for NZ. What’s frightening is you’re not alone.
        
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        November 15, 2021 1:25pm
      - rouppe
        
        “… Like a number of others…”
        
        All of which are discretionary
        
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        November 15, 2021 2:02pm
      - Fight4NZ
        
        If only I could spend time fighting on real issues instead of hippie trippie antivaxx bs that really has no place in a blog such as this. Why is it that you don’t spend your time at YSB or similar gathering of the tin foil hat brigade?
        
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        November 16, 2021 12:00am
    - DeepBlue
      
      The screenshot of the vax pass (note it is not a vax certificate) showed an expiry date of 31 Dec 2022. My take is this gives 14 months for the virus to burn out, treatments to improve or all hell to beak loose. It is just buying time and deferring further decision making… taking unpopular incremental dates off Jacinda’s agenda.
      
      The international vax passports are something quite else, they will be controlled by the airlines and will require current boosters and/or negative tests before flights for the unvaccinated. It will be interesting to see whether airlines to NZ will even allow the unvaccinated to fly.
      
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      November 15, 2021 9:46am
      - rouppe
        
        That is just a sample, matter.
        
        Just for illustrative purposes…
        
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        November 15, 2021 2:03pm
    - Clownworld
      
      Ultimately when logic and reason has been abandoned , it is not about a virus, a vaccine or health.
      
      What is it then?
      This is a global political initative.
      This is about control.
      This is about propaganda.
      This is about sustained propaganda.
      This is about one media narrative.
      This is about censorship.
      This is about CCP groupthink.
      This is about corporate govt partnership.
      This is about making up immaginary internal borders.
      This is about herding people like animals.
      This is about manipulation of human behaviour.
      This is about the rich getting richer at the expense of the majority.
      This is a catalyst for next steps towards a regionalist control then global control.
      This is mass psychosis.
      This is madness.
      This is us?
      
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      November 15, 2021 10:02am
      - Spoff
        
        “it is not about a virus, a vaccine or health…
        What is it then?”
        Dr Robert Malone has an interesting take:
        
        https://thenewamerican.com/dr-robert-malone-this-is-the-largest-experiment-performed-on-human-beings-in-the-history-of-the-world/
        
        (According to his bio, “The mRNA, constructs, reagents were developed at the Salk institute and Vical by Dr. Malone.” His research has also included important work on DNA vaccines. In addition to his fundamental work developing mRNA and DNA vaccine technology, Malone is also a medical doctor.)
        
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        November 15, 2021 10:34am
      - Don Beckett
        
        You’ve just described the aims of the World Economic Forum – alias One World Govt. controlled by the Atheistic Freemasonic United Nations.
        
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        November 15, 2021 11:20am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      “A big lie but this truth is bigger still. everyone is seeing with their own eyes what’s going on. the most devout 20% will go down on this ship engulfed by icy water while still shrilling that icebergs are a conspiracy theory, but the middle has had more than enough.”
      
      An excellent read and analysis. Worth checking out.
      
      https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/watch-as-epidemic-of-the-unvaccinated?
      
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      November 15, 2021 11:50am
    - Scooter
      
      Of course the vacc certificate will have an expiry date, in line with the efficacy of the vaccine. Just like overseas, Italy it’s 12 months, used to be shorter though. But they are now talking about when the “Green Pass” will finish. But NZ being at least a year behind I would imagine that is way down the line.
      
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      November 15, 2021 10:31pm
- Scott
  
  Benedict – I expect that as soon as we finish the vaccine double jab rollout they’ll quickly move to the booster rollout. That’s what they’re doing in the UK.
  But yes, if the vaccine protects you from covid then there are some questions jacinda needs to answer. Must we all get a booster?
  And if the vaccine does protect you from covid then why are you unsafe in the presence of unvaccinated people?
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:08am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    We have a 2 class system.
    
    The vaccinated, waiting for the unvaccinated to die.
    
    And the unvaccinated, waiting for the vaccinated to die.
    
    I am one of the vile unclean infectious unvaccinated excluded from participating in society.
    
    Is this so bad as I have more chance of catching covid from the vaccinated. The vaccine does not Sterilize the virus, does not stop transmission, but does allow the vaccinated to carry a higher viral load before noticing symptoms.
    
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    November 15, 2021 8:31am
    - mawm
      
      Blobby – maybe you are in the right group. The link is to some correspondence between Professor Richard Ennos, a retired Professor of Evolutionary Biology at Edinburgh University and Anita Morrison, Head of Health and Social Care Analysis and Support in Scotland about excess deaths in Scotland. When these deaths are broken down into age groups it seems that as each age group is inoculated against covid their accumulated annual excess deaths increase. The graphs are very interesting to say the least.
      https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/are-vaccines-driving-excess-deaths-in-scotland-a-professor-of-biology-asks/
      
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      November 15, 2021 9:44am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Literally, nobody knows what happens 6 – 12 months post booster shot. Because not enough time has passed. The effectiveness could start to wane again in a straight line which would mean (at least) yearly boosters. Or it could wane more slowly meaning a booster every 2 – 3 years.
    
    Fortunately, the vaccine provides long lasting protection against serious illness. There is almost no decline after 6 months and it is likely to be minimal after 12 months.
    
    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02183-8/fulltext
    
    That is really good news. And I don’t think that achievement gets acknowledged enough by some of my fellow commentators here. Of course, an I stress this, protection against serious illness provides no basis for a vaccine certificate. It is ridiculous.
    
    Back to its protection against illness. For most people, COVID is not a serious illness, but it can be very unpleasant. And for many it can be serious. Just think how many obese people there are in New Zealand.
    
    What the vaccine does do effectively is stop the infection getting into your lungs. And you wil typically not get a fever.
    
    Vaccinated people typically (and this does NOT mean always) have these symptoms, which are much less severe than even a moderate cold. They are in this order:
    
    Headache
    Runny nose
    Sneezing
    Sore throat
    Loss of smell
    
    These will last about seven days.
    
    The key point I would make is that if you are (say) 50 years old and healthy you are most unlikely to be hospitalised with COVID. But you could still be in for an very unpleasant couple of weeks. You are very unlikely to have that experience if you are vaccinated.
    
    I hope that is helpful.
    
    BY
    
    –
    
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    November 15, 2021 8:57am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      BY I can’t believe you presented that as evidence.
      
      Declaration of interests
      JMZ, SG, KP, FJA, LJ, SRV, and JMM are employees of and hold stock and stock options in Pfizer. TBF holds shares of Pfizer stock. SYT, JMS, HF, VH, BKA, ONR, TBF, and OAO received research support from Pfizer during the conduct of this study that was paid directly to KPSC. For work unrelated to this project, SYT received research funding from Gilead, GlaxoSmithKline, and Genentech; BKA received research funding from GlaxoSmithKline, Novavax, Dynavax, Genentech, Novartis, Seqirus, and Moderna; JMS received research funding from Novavax, Dynavax, and ALK; and HF received research funding from Genentech.
      
      Pardon me if I ignore the whole thing. I did read it but I can find numerous other studies that completely disagree.
      I think this analysis is much more accurate. Feel free to read the whole article and respond.
      
      Quote:
      
      “at best, these vaccines mitigate covid effects to a tiny absolute degree in the young and are clearly negative risk reward for any apart from the old or infirm.
      
      they clearly accentuate spread. likely, they made the virus worse again.
      
      and the best way to hide such ill effects is to eliminate all the control groups.”
      
      Hence the insane drive to jab everyone on the planet including children at zero risk.
      
      https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/the-strong-incongruity-of-reported
      
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      November 15, 2021 9:21am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “are clearly negative risk reward for any apart from the old or infirm.”
        
        Just so I am clear. You think the very elderly should not be vaccinated against COVID? And you think that the vaccines provide literally no benefit whatsoever against COVID illness? I’ve been looking at data every day for 9 months. Sorry that is crap.
        
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        November 15, 2021 10:13am
      - Reid
        
        Benedict, have you looked at what Geert Vanden Bossche says about the non-specific antibodies? I assume you have and would be interested in your thoughts.
        
        The host of this vid helpfully summarises the issue for laypeople but the substance is in the full video of Vanden Bossche and his colleague where he spells it out in full scientific detail. If you could address yourself to that latter interview Benedict as I assume you are already aware of the high-level summary from the host from your research.
        
        https://rumble.com/vl5il4-vaccine-disaster-ahead.html
        
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        November 15, 2021 12:31pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        BY I couldn’t reply directly apparently so I’ll do it here.
        You obviously didn’t read it properly. Reread the quote, “……..negative risk reward for any APART FROM the old or infirm.”
        
        I didn’t say anything about not vaccinating the elderly? I’ve said from the very beginning, those at most risk from the impacts should consider taking the jab. Elderly and those with serious underlying conditions. If I was anyone else I’d think long and hard about it because we know now without doubt that this is a medical experiment. Even IF the original safety data was 100% accurate, there is zero data around the effects of “boosters”.
        In fact, according to the Pfizer Risk Management Plan there was a lot of “missing information” in the original data provided to Medsafe.
        
        “Important identified risks – Anaphylaxis
        
        Important potential risks – Vaccine-associated enhanced disease (VAED) including vaccine associated enhanced respiratory disease (VAERD)
        
        Missing information – Use in pregnancy and while breast feeding
        Use in immunocompromised patients
        Use in frail patients with co-morbidities (eg, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease [COPD], diabetes, chronic neurological disease,
        cardiovascular disorders)
        Use in patients with autoimmune or inflammatory disorders
        Interaction with other vaccines
        Long-term safety data”
        
        That’s a hell of a lot of “missing information”.
        https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/Comirnaty-RMP.pdf
        
        Yes, I believe that for the majority who aren’t obese, aged, diabetic etc etc, the stats show that your risk from covid is tiny. Like you, I’ve been reading stats and data about this thing from the beginning. We can disagree. This is how science works usually. Debate and discussion. It is rarely “settled”.
        
        So please let me know what exactly about the link I supplied was “crap” and why?
        
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        November 15, 2021 12:32pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “If you could address yourself to that latter interview Benedict as I assume you are …”
        
        No you cannot assume.
        
        And I don’t know whether “there is a vaccine disaster ahead”.
        
        My statements have been that the CURRENT DATA shows that the vaccine provides long lasting effective protection (12 months plus) against serious illness and deaths from COVID. That is literally all I am saying. And if you want to find evidence – I mean actual large scale studies that proves that wrong well good luck with that.
        
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        November 15, 2021 1:13pm
      - Reid
        
        So does that mean you won’t be addressing the concerns raised by one of the top experts in the world Benedict?
        
        He’s talking about the way the immune system is known to work when you get narrow-spectrum vaccine-induced immunity. Pretty standard stuff, so you don’t need any research papers in order to address it, I would have thought.
        
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        November 15, 2021 2:48pm
      - Reid
        
        But in case you do, here are some.
        
        https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/post/seriesofpublications
        
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        November 15, 2021 3:06pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “So does that mean you won’t be addressing the concerns raised by one of the top experts in the world Benedict?”
        
        No because I am not fucking qualified to address those concerns.
        
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        November 15, 2021 6:19pm
    - Ehlana
      
      Thanks BY – as usual you make a useful and sensible contribution to the discussion.
      
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      November 15, 2021 9:36am
    - dannz
      
      Keep it up Benedict, I agree with almost everything you say but just don’t have the time to say it myself 🙂
      
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      November 15, 2021 9:58am
    - Clownworld
      
      BY always appreciate your commentary and if what this study says is true then time and more studies will validate it.
      The lancet though has published discredited corrupt studies before so I take with a grain of salt.
      
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      November 15, 2021 10:09am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I could cite 10 other large scale. All conclude the same.
        
        I’m not going to get into hair splitting but right now I am confident that the vaccines provide time limited support against infection (hence boosters) AND that protection against serious illness and death is strong and lasts at least 12 months.
        
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        November 15, 2021 10:37am
      - Spoff
        
        BY
        “I could cite 10 other large scale”
        Please do. I’d like to take a look at them as the only studies I have seen that allege that the Pfizer “vaccine” provides long lasting effective protection (12 months plus) against serious illness emanate from Pfizer or their proxies.
        
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        November 15, 2021 5:42pm
    - DeepBlue
      
      Reading CDC it seems they are concerned about the vaccine waning protection against mild to moderate disease, they say the 2 shots are still effective against severe illness.
      
      The recommendation is for over 65s plus those with comorbidities over 50 to have the booster. Younger people with comorbitities may have it.
      
      I can only conclude that mild or moderate covid illness is still serious when you are older or weaker.
      
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      November 15, 2021 10:17am
      - Ehlana
        
        Your conclusion makes sense DeepBlue. If you’re older or weaker, any injury or illness tends to hit you harder. My doctor told me once old people can end up in hospital from cat scratches which get infected.
        
        I told my cat. I don’t think she cares.
        
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        November 15, 2021 11:27am
  - RockyJ
    
    I love your question “if the vaccine does protect you from covid then why are you unsafe in the presence of unvaccinated people?”
    So simple yet not answered by our masters.
    Like other questions “if Covid is now endemic in Auckland then why are ex-pats who want to return and have a negative test still required to go into MIQ?” or “if the government is no longer reporting places of interest in Auckland then why are we still required to scan before entering retail premises?”
    I’m sure there are others.
    
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    November 15, 2021 10:38am
    - Rich Prick
      
      The answer to your first question is troubling the Government. They want to say the vaccine has 100% efficacy and stays that way. But they can’t and I think they know the honest answer is that vaccinated people are likely to be at risk from fellow vaccinated people and the unvaccinated. Which makes the whole vaccination certificate scheme a waste of time. Negative tests and personal responsibility around hygiene, social distancing and other mitigatory steps, is probably the better approach.
      
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      November 15, 2021 2:13pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “I expect that as soon as we finish the vaccine double jab rollout they’ll quickly move to the booster rollout.”
    
    You don’t need to expect. They just announced it. Good job. One of the few sensible decisions they have made.
    
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    November 15, 2021 6:16pm
- Rich Prick
  
  So why bother at all? The whole thing is a circus. We are about to have our lives seriously limited by a stupid traffic light system that won’t work because our “papers” might be faulty.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:15am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    It won’t work because of non compliance.
    
    Watch for the check points, the gestapo trawling through restaurants demanding to see papers etc.
    
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    November 15, 2021 9:17am
    - mawm
      
      There is only one way – Become ungovernable.
      
      BTW I’m not advocating breaking laws.
      
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      November 15, 2021 9:51am
      - Reid
        
        You know something that would have an instant effect? Everyone stop sending their tax monies to IRD. Customers stop paying the GST-portion of the ticket, employers stop sending their PAYE/GST/FBT payments, s/e taxpayers stop paying provisional and ACC…
        
        It won’t happen, but that’s the fastest peaceful way to get their instant attention.
        
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        November 15, 2021 12:36pm
  - Ehlana
    
    What papers? They were due to be available in mid-November. It says so here: ” In mid-November, you’ll also be able to download vaccination status certificates for use in New Zealand and overseas.” https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines/my-covid-record-proof-vaccination-status.
    My calendar says that is now. So I logged in to take a look at it and …
    
    [resounding silence]
    
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    November 15, 2021 9:41am
- Raphael
  
  They already hinted at it (behind the paywall though) in the article about Mattr developing the Webservices for the passorts. That they would be expiring every 6 months.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:21am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Welcome to another day of lockdown tyranny.
  
  I feel very sorry for the people who have been forced on to the vaccination hampster wheel.
  
  I feel sorry for the people who reluctantly agreed to the first 2 shots and are now forced to continue down the program, when in their minds they are slowly waking up to the nonsense.
  
  I can only hope that enough wake up in time to sink the labour party into extinction at the next election, if not it will probably be our last free and fair elections.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:22am
  - mawm
    
    Will it be enough to sink Labour? Collins and the Nets are not promising anything different. And as for Seymour, leader of our most libertarian party, he thinks the unvaxxed are the deplorables.
    
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    November 15, 2021 9:53am
- BAM
  
  Why does the covid vaccine lose effectiveness?
  
  I thought the idea of the vaccine was to instruct the body how to fight the COVID virus.
  
  Does the body “forget” what to do or is there something else going on?
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:24am
  - Reid
    
    The vax has trillions of fat-encased molecules containing RNA coded to induce any cell it enters (those with ACE2 receptors) to make a foriegn protein (the spike protein). Your immune system recognises this as something to be attacked so it launches a response which means your immune system is vigorously killing off your healthy cells in all your organs.
    
    Each time it kills a cell the cell releases the spike proteins its been making and a new round of cell entry-manufacture-kill is induced. This activity lasts for about 6-8 months before your previously healthy cells induced to manufacture the spike protein have all been killed by your own immune system.
    
    So you need a booster which injects even more spike protein RNA scriptase and the cycle begins again.
    
    No-one has bothered to explain why it’s a good idea to walk around with monster immunity to a virus you don’t have, normally the immune system processes a vaccine and creates memory cells and your immune system returns to normal patrol. This doesn’t happen with this thing.
    
    There’s a lot of issues with this not least the narrow spectrum immunity you have which is very dangerous to the vaxed because it means if you do get an infection from a coronavirus variant with a mutated spike protein, your immune system will not respond to it as effectively as it would otherwise if you’d never been vaxed.
    
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    November 15, 2021 8:53am
    - dcrane
      
      Minor point, but I think it is the spike protein of SARS-COV-2 that binds ACE2 receptors. The lipid nanoparticles of the Pfizer vaccine (and Moderna) are likely able to pass through any cell membranes. I’d be interested to find out if anyone knows that this is wrong.
      
      Also, how can a spike protein that is liberated when a cell is killed make its way into another cell? It would first need to be repackaged into a lipid nanoparticle in order to cross a membrane. And since it is protein, not mRNA, it cannot code for the production of new spike. Perhaps it can cause injury (new immune attack) merely by binding ACE2 of new cells.
      
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      November 15, 2021 9:45am
      - Reid
        
        The lipid nanoparticle is a packaging for the RNA scriptase. Its job is to protect the RNA once it gets inside your body for long enough for it to come into contact with a cell with an ACE2 receptor. Once it does come into contact with an ACE2 receptor, it binds to it through the furin cleavage site (which was the area of the spike protein of the virus where the gain of function enhancements were performed). The spike protein is actually two proteins, S1 and S2, joined at the furin cleavage.
        
        This is how the virus gets into the cell and the spike protein in the vax mimics that.
        
        Once an infected cell’s ribosomes (protein factories) start making the spike protein, the lipid packaging is no longer required if it escapes into the body because it’s now a protein not RNA scriptase.
        
        The vax marketing campaign tells us the spike protein isn’t itself cytotoxic. How would they know since they haven’t done any studies on that particular aspect of it? Secondly if it is cytotoxic, it explains long covid and the side effects we are seeing from the vax.
        
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        November 15, 2021 11:08am
    - BAM
      
      Interesting,
      I really can’t see how you can call this a vaccine if your immune system doesn’t memorize and retain the information to fight covid, at best it’s a long-lasting medicine, not a vaccine.
      
      Also, I can’t see how it can be good for your body if your immune system is running in a constant state of warfare.
      
      Where did you get this information from? this certainly wasn’t part of the official sales pitch.
      
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      November 15, 2021 9:46am
      - Reid
        
        No its not a vaccine, it’s experimental gene therapy, that is why the FDA changed the definition of vaccine about four months ago, so they could market it as such.
        
        I’ve pieced it together from various sources I’ve been studying since January 2020.
        
        I normally release a couple of links a day which have pieces of the puzzle. If you search GD for my name each day, you’ll pick them up. I started a week or so ago, I don’t bother posting on any other topic, since this is the most critical issue on the table right now, your health is #1 as is your child’s health. And if you’re currently deciding whether or not to get your kid vaxed, you deserve informed consent as opposed to the propaganda you’re currently receiving from the legacy media.
        
        That’s the only reason I’ve come back.
        
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        November 15, 2021 11:14am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        There was much that wasn’t included in the official sales pitch. This summary of the Risk Management Plan on the Medsafe website has some astonishing information. It makes the decision to “approve” it seem ludicrous. Page 2 shows a list of the “missing information”.
        
        https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/Comirnaty-RMP.pdf
        
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        November 15, 2021 12:37pm
      - Michael Johnston
        
        Reid certainly seems to have read up on this stuff and to be very knowledgeable on cell biology and the mechanics of protein production.
        
        The part about the mRNA in the vaccine using the ribosomes in our cells to manufacture spike protein certainly accords with my understanding. What I didn’t know was that each time a cell releases spike protein, “a new round of cell entry-manufacture-kill is induced”. I had thought that, once the original dose of mRNA had been used up, that would be it. I’d also assumed – possibly wrongly – that our immune systems would store a ‘memory’ of the spike protein and therefore produce antibodies to it more efficiently following vaccination.
        
        I’m also interested in the contention that vaccination might weaken the immune response to future mutations of the spike protein. I can understand why it might not offer protection against mutant strains, but not why it might weaken the response.
        
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        November 15, 2021 12:44pm
      - Reid
        
        Micheal I think I was wrong in what I said above about the new round of cell entry-manufacture-kill, sorry, it was a slip of the keyboard.
        
        But it is correct to say that the spike protein manufactured by the RNA-infected cell is released into the interstitium (space between the cells) when the immune system destroys the cell, and no-one has studied what the effects of that foreign protein will have on the body once its released. Which should give one pause for thought on that alone.
        
        Some scientists are saying the spike protein itself is cyto-toxic and if so it does explain the side effects we are seeing.
        
        With respect to the immune system storing the virus protein in memory cells, it does, but it’s storing only the spike protein fragment of the virus genome, not the whole genome itself. If a person with normal immunity encounters a virus your immune system’s killer cells rip the whole thing apart. Other immune cells take multiple “photos” of each genomic fragment which together, make up a reasonable representation of the whole virus. Those “photos” are stored in memory cells and are used to recognise a foreign invader if it comes back. With the vaccine-induced immunity however, your immune system only has “photos” of the spike protein. This is called narrow spectrum immunity.
        
        The issue with narrow spectrum immunity is that if you encounter a variant which has a mutated spike protein it will escape your immune response. Such a variant has been detected, it is called Variant A.30 and it has seven amino-acid mutations in the spike protein. The virus will continue this mutation path cos it wants to do one thing: reproduce. It therefore mutates constantly and because the vaccine is both leaky (narrow-spectrum) and non-durable, it will eventually find a mutation that allows it to infect the vaccinated. Normally viruses will reduce in lethality because that’s how it finds more hosts, but because the vaccine is not requiring it to do much heavy lifting in order to find a variant that works (because its narrow spectrum), that is not happening to any significant degree.
        
        The worst thing that has happened to the vaxed is that their immune system has now been trained via vaccine-induced immunity to recognise all coronaviruses as having the spike protein. If a coronavirus comes along without the spike protein, your non-specific antibodies will not respond as they normally would, instead the antibodies that have now been trained to respond to the “spike protein = coronavirus” will shove the non-specific antibodies aside. But if the coronavirus invader has a sufficiently mutated spike protein, not only will your non-specific antibodies stand down, but your trained “spike protein = coronavirus” antibodies will also stand down. Meaning you have no immune response to such a variant.
        
        I gave Benedict in a post above a link to a vid which explains this phenomena and there’s a link on the page which gives you the full background. This is the post:
        https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/11/general_debate_15_november_2021.html/comment-page-1#comment-3064972
        
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        November 15, 2021 2:20pm
    - mawm
      
      Reid yesterday you linked to a podcast with Peter McCullough and a cell biologist with his expertise in ageing. It was a most illuminating talk and all should listen to it.
      
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      November 15, 2021 9:57am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Ah! That’ll be that “disinformation” that the PM keeps referring to!
        Terrible bloody scientists and doctors, not aligning with the fish and chip shop worker’s “single source of truth”. It’s ok, the Whoreald will put us straight!
        
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        November 15, 2021 12:40pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      That is not correct Reid. The vaccine uses mRNA in nanoparticles to make a close but not exact copy of the viral S protein, one that is far worse at binding to the ACE2 receptor. The nanoparticles however do NOT use the ACE2 receptor to enter cells, they have a different mechanism to promote fusion with a cell. Once fused, the mRNA is released to create the modified S protein. The targeted cells are muscle cells at the point of the injection, though if the particles get out into the vascular system other cells certainly can take up the mRNA and make the S protein.
      
      The idea is that you can easily withstand the loss of a few muscle cells which are readily regenerated; but it could well be an issue if there is significant escape from the muscle.
      
      Note also that according to the literature, the modified S protein that is encoded by the mRNA in the vaccine has a low affinity for the ACE2 receptor but is sufficiently similar otherwise to generate a good immune response to the real S protein. But if the fake S protein doesn’t bind to ACE2, then the vaccine issues noted like myocarditis and blood clotting issues must be caused by some other mechanism, either a different receptor bind or other toxic effect. And as the effects are essentially the same as are caused by the virus itself and the only common factors are these “similar” S proteins, both versions are probably binding and causing these same problems.
      
      Not confirmed but I understand that the vaccine induces a reasonably strong antibody defence but seems not to effectively properly activate the T and B cell systems that manage the long term response to infection. So after a relatively short period the antibodies themselves stop circulating but without the cellular memory system working properly, a new infection does not elicit any innate immune response. However this is not everyone’s view, some claim that the T and B cell networks are activated, and that there is some other as yet unknown and unexplained reason why they don’t respond and allow reinfection so readily. Pfizer is of this view, surprise surprise.
      
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      November 15, 2021 10:16am
      - Reid
        
        You’re reciting the marketing Ed but the marketing is now proven wrong on the durability aspect (i.e. they’re now telling you you need boosters – which I knew back in May when Israel started doing them).
        
        The marketing is also wrong on the distribution aspect (where the vax goes in the body after injection). It doesn’t stay in the deltoid and the underarm lymph node at the injection site. That’s what normal vaccines do, but the highly lipid soluble packaging they used makes it prone to getting into the bloodstream whereupon it spreads to all organs in the body with ACE2 receptors – which is most of them. It even crosses the blood brain barrier and gets into the brain. Since the spike protein contains several prion sequences this would explain the neuro-degenerative diseases the vaxed are now coming down with: e.g. the “mystery” outbreak of CJD (mad-cow) in a province in Canada that was in the news over the weekend and it would also explain the Guillain-Barre syndrome the FDA itself listed in that slide it showed for half a second of the vax side-effects while it was having its original approval hearing.
        
        The mRNA platform has been around for a few decades but it was never used in a vax because of this packaging problem which they couldn’t solve of protecting the RNA payload in the body long enough but also avoiding the distribution issues so it in fact did stay in the places the marketing suggests it does. When Operation Warp Speed came along Moderna and Pfizer just said fuck it and took this highly lipid soluble packaging off the shelf and used it.
        
        The only distribution study they did for the approval process involved 20 or so humanised mice which, when autopsied, showed the vax had spread to all their organs. This would have killed the vax if they kept up the studies so they just ignored that and the rest is history.
        
        I accept this is speculation because they refuse to study these problems and until they do we don’t have data. But looking at the vax side effects, if what I described is indeed what is happening, that does explain why we are seeing what we are seeing.
        
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        November 15, 2021 11:41am
      - Fight4NZ
        
        A good clarification of the biochemistry at work.
        The question that strikes me, that you do touch on, is with the immune response occurring in the muscle tissue near the innoculation site, what is triggering the myocarditis reaction?
        Totally guessing but some sort of reaction to the lipid delivery medium? Or rogue S protein getting into blood stream of susceptible individuals? Or the modification of the S-proteins is not 100%, ie 99.999%, and the reaction is the result of the natural form S-protein in some minute portion of vaccines administered?
        Also guessing, but with the localisation of the immune reaction I would guess there is low T and B cell response, which attrition causes to wane? It would be clearer if Covid infection didn’t vary in the longevity of the response also.
        But with everyone getting exposed sooner or later, the combination seems to be fairly solid in both immunity mechanisms.
        
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        November 15, 2021 11:56am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        What is most astonishing to me is that something that has obviously got so much unknown around it could ever be called “safe and approved”. Everything we have witnessed in the last 9 months or so disproves every single shred of that claim.
        It should be a question the media are grilling the government, Medsafe and the “experts” about. Of course they won’t because they lose access to the 30 pieces of silver.
        Despicable.
        
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        November 15, 2021 12:43pm
      - Reid
        
        Fight4NZ the myocarditus reaction is explained if you hypothesise the spike protein itself is cytotoxic. As you probably know myocarditus is an inflammation and where would that inflammation be coming from if the spike protein itself wasn’t (a) cytotoxic and (b) circulating in the bloodstream.
        
        This alone would be enough to immediately halt the vax rollout if this was being managed as a normal medical public health emergency, because heart cells, like brain cells, don’t regenerate and once you lose them they’re gone forever. To have myocarditus appearing in the young is extremely serious because their prognosis is 50% death in five years, and a lifetime of cardiac issues.
        
        Yet the damn the torpedoes approach continues apace, with no-one in the medical community having the courage to stand up and start pointing out the profoundly obvious, on this and all the other side effects we are seeing.
        
        If this isn’t a political issue with a political objective being managed under the disguise of a medical issue, it damn sure looks and quacks like one, doesn’t it.
        
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        November 15, 2021 12:53pm
      - Fight4NZ
        
        Reid, I took a brief but unsuccessful look for something that would support your assertions about Prion sequences and neurodegeneration. Some material on the Virus itself having this consequence in some, but nothing on the vaccine. Where did that come from?
        
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        November 15, 2021 6:17pm
      - Reid
        
        Flight, here’s a report on a study from the Australian National Review which cites the study so you can look it up, I have included it as it explains the overall issue quite well.
        
        https://www.australiannationalreview.com/health/shocking-study-reveals-mrna-covid-19-vaccines-may-progressively-degenerate-your-brain-from-prion-disease/
        
        and here’s a study https://www.medicdebate.org/node/1880
        
        If you type “Prion-like domain at RBS spike protein” into duck duck you can find many studies. There is no controversy over it being in the spike’s receptor binding domain – that can’t be debated, there it is. The controversy is over what it might be doing in a human body given it’s there.
        
        If you don’t like either of those links, just keep looking using those keywords or a variety thereof.
        
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        November 15, 2021 7:23pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Reid, I see you have corrected your original assertion about the way the vaccine particles fuse with the cells.
        
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        November 15, 2021 8:46pm
  - MCos
    
    The polio vaccine requires four shots.
    
    I have epilepsy. The anti seizure medication only lasts twelve hours, which is why I effectively need a booster two times a day.
    I wish I could take something that lasted six months!
    
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    November 15, 2021 8:55am
    - Ed Snack
      
      MCos, you correctly describe your epilepsy treatment as “medication”, not as a vaccine. There are reasonable grounds to regard the current Pfizer etc offerings as medication or prophylactic treatment rather than as a “vaccine”. Not that it matters that much, except for the issue around how people regard vaccines as opposed to treatment.
      
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      November 15, 2021 10:19am
      - cmm
        
        Quite.
        
        You’d never call Depo-Provera an anti-pregnancy vaccine. And DP lasts longer, and is more effective, than the Pfizer jab.
        
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        November 15, 2021 5:06pm
  - PhilBest
    
    I have said all along that the vaccine trials never established how good they really were, in the face of different levels of challenge. And going back to the big official blunder in the whole pandemic, this relates to duration of exposure to aerosols, and their concentration in the air you are inhaling. The false orthodoxy about droplets and contact is responsible for multiple errors downstream of that.
    
    So if the vaccines look like they are failing to protect, is that because they lose effectiveness, or because they never were very effective, but the vaccinated person was not in high risk environments at all for some time after their vaccination, but maybe as restrictions are eased and the seasonal weather changes, the real challenges arise and suddenly “the vaccinated” are infected.
    
    I reckon there has been enough early-after-vaccination breakthrough infections to prove that it is not about “waning effectiveness”, it is about “ineffectiveness”, period. At least to an extent that the “experts” are not even thinking of trying to analyse, because they are wrong about everything downstream of the “how it spreads in the first place” blunder.
    
    I no longer believe this is a sincere blunder, they need the false contact / droplets “orthodoxy” to justify tyranny, because a public well informed about aerosols could very cost-effectively minimise their own risk and return to normal life. And they might call for heads to roll over the needless collateral damage meanwhile.
    
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    November 15, 2021 8:56am
    - Fight4NZ
      
      So what is the true mechanism of transmission if contact/droplets orthodoxy is false?
      
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      November 15, 2021 11:45am
      - cmm
        
        What he means is the original “large droplet” theory is bollocks. This was the whole basis for wearing masks and “social distancing”.
        
        Aerosols (ie. very small droplets) are a far larger vector. Masks are ineffective against those.
        
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        November 15, 2021 5:08pm
  - virtualmark
    
    Firstly, the need for boosters is less about the vaccine and more about how people’s immune systems weaken as they age. As we age our immune systems can’t hold an immune response as well, so they need regular “reminders”.
    
    I suspect boosters will only be needed for age 65+, but that to be conservative they may drop that age threshold to, say, 50.
    
    Secondly, it now seems that we’re under-dosing with the first two Pfizer shots. Each Pfizer shot has 30 micrograms of RNA, so two jabs = 60 micrograms. Meanwhile each Moderna shot has 100 micrograms, so two jabs = 200 micrograms. The Moderna vaccine has a lot slower waning than the Pfizer one, and the emerging view is that’s because the Pfizer doses are too small.
    
    So the “booster” is more of a move to a “third shot of three” regime.
    
    Note that the main reason for the Pfizer doses being “smaller” is that that allows the finite amount of vaccine to be stretched further across more people. So there’s been a trade-off between dose size and the need to vaccinate as many people as possible.
    
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    November 15, 2021 9:58am
    - Ed Snack
      
      I haven’t seen any evidence that the reinfection rate is higher amongst the elderly, though that may be correct. This virus certainly seems to be far more dangerous to the elderly than the young, though maybe that is simply because the elderly especially the very old are very likely to have one or more comorbidities such as high blood pressure or cardio system deficits.
      
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      November 15, 2021 10:21am
      - virtualmark
        
        The “reinfection rate higher among the elderly” and “far more dangerous to the elderly” are both from the same root cause.
        
        As we age our immune system becomes weaker. It doesn’t hold a strong immune response for long after an infection or vaccination (basically, it “forgets” the virus relatively quickly). And it is slower to mobilise and react to new infections. And it’s ultimate ability to manufacture a lot of cells to fight infection (whether T-cells, B-cells, killer cells whatever) is lower so the strength of your immune response is lower.
        
        Not a great trifecta.
        
        So:
        – The elderly won’t hold a vaccine response for as long as the young (ie the vaccine “wanes”).
        – That means they’re more likely to be infected than is a younger person with a strong immune system.
        – And when they are infected their immune system can’t mount as quick or as strong a fight, which is crucial with Delta in particular because it’s main difference is that it replicates in your body much faster than ur-Covid.
        
        Oh, and older people are more likely to have co-morbidities too.
        
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        November 15, 2021 2:14pm
- Simon
  
  Ofcourse they have known about boosters for a long time. The whole creepy dishonesty around the vaccines. To say you are fully vaxxed after two shots. Anyone informed can see what is happening overseas. In Wellington they know. But are trapped by their own stupdity. Zero covid has corrupted them. It was always a cult.
  
  The key item about the third dose is the knowledge that the original two shots lose their effectiveness quickly. Around 20 weeks it drops off. Espically for the vulnerable
  
  Too base and organize society and economics around this vaccine garbage is stunning. As the vaxx fades, requiring boosters, the more unstable the gubermint mandatory vaxx position and other positions.
  
  And the instability of organizing society around the vaxx. Stupid and evil both Labo & National.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:28am
  - virtualmark
    
    Lots of anger. Not a lot of calm rational thinking.
    
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    November 15, 2021 2:15pm
- Fletch
  
  Let’s be clear. These are not “boosters”. The term is dishonest. It’s really a revaccination because the original one has worn off. It just didn’t last very long so they have to do it again. And it will need to be done again. And again.
  
  If it was “safe and effective” that would be one thing but it is neither.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:29am
  - MCos
    
    I don’t care what it’s called, I’ll be in the queue early next year when a third dose is required to maintain optimal protection.
    What about you?
    Are you vaccinated or are you going to rely on ivermectin?
    
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    November 15, 2021 9:08am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Wouldn’t it be great if were genuinely free to make that choice? I would simply wish you good luck going forward. I believe you will need it.
      
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      November 15, 2021 9:32am
    - dcrane
      
      These decisions are heavily age-dependent. The risks for an ill 80-year-old are orders of magnitude different from those of a healthy 25-year-old.
      
      I wish I was allowed access to ivermectin in this country. But it is my impression that doctors are discouraged from prescribing it for covid. Is that not correct?
      
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      November 15, 2021 9:48am
      - Fletch
        
        Yep, it hits there elderly more. A buddy of mine has bookmarked the deaths as they occur and noted the ages etc.
        
        Of the first 29 deaths
        
        7 were in their 70s
        8 were in their 80s
        6 were in their 90s
        The rest were aged 50-65 and had comorbidities.
        
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        November 15, 2021 10:50am
      - Don Beckett
        
        They can’t prescribe it – it has been withdrawn under mandate by the Health Dept. In my view, a criminal act. I have asked my doctor to prescribe it for me some months ago, and he is unable to, even if I had skin scabies, which Ivermectin is very effective against. I would have to have some other medication.
        
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        November 15, 2021 11:36am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        They are actively suppressing anything remotely associated with treatment of covid that isn’t made by a pharmaceutical company. They refuse to even talk about the beneficial effects of Vitamin C and D, zinc, melatonin and others. Fresh air, diet, sunshine, exercise. Why are these basics not even mentioned? It is all “jab, jab, jab, jab”.
        That alone should raise suspicion about the motives. There is talk about the contents of the contract with Pfizer. If they were to release that to the public it could be telling. Of course they won’t.
        
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        November 15, 2021 12:50pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      I’d certainly use Ivermectin if it were available. Extremely safe (far safer than the vaccine, and I mean FAR SAFER), and appears to have a pretty similar effect on reducing the severity of symptoms. With the bonus that as one has caught and recovered from a Covid infection you will have a robust and long lived immune response to future reinfections.
      
      However in their infinite wisdom, our Medical Authorities have decided that safe and effective treatments cannot be allowed as it would detract from the vaccination campaign, and presumably would detract from the profitability of Pfizer and the other vaccine manufacturers.
      
      Optimal strategy, just IMHO on what we know. Vaccinate everyone who has comorbidities of significance (slightly high blood pressure for example would not qualify) and anyone over, say, 60-65. Test widely, and for anyone (including the vaccinated) who catches Covid, give them a 2 week course of Ivermectin, Vit D, Vit C, low dose antibiotic and anti-clotting agents. Hospitalise where needed but avoid ventilation if possible, supplementary oxygen is preferred. Test for antibodies widely as well, and anyone who has natural immunity should be free to do whatever they like. No masks, no shutdowns, focus on ventilation standards and avoiding high density gatherings inside without adequate fresh air supply and air turnover. No restrictions outdoors, encourage outdoor activity.
      
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      November 15, 2021 10:30am
      - Fletch
        
        Right. It’s maddening that we have the medicines to treat people and end this pandemic but they won’t do it because of politics and money. It’s gravely immoral and there needs to be an inquiry into the actions the govt has taken and why. Maybe this govt won’t do it but hopefully future govts will. It will be scandalous and an indictment on these leaders.
        
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        November 15, 2021 12:32pm
      - Michael Duke
        
        Lets not forget the 200 Million person trial of this approach in Uttar Pradesh in India.
        
        Of course at USD2.35 per patient for a 10 day course that does not make a billions of dollars for the pharmaceutical companies so it must be suppressed at all costs.
        
        https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/09/huge-uttar-pradesh-india-announces-state-covid-19-free-proving-effectiveness-deworming-drug-ivermectin/
        
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        November 15, 2021 1:19pm
      - Tom Hunter
        
        there needs to be an inquiry into the actions the govt has taken and why.
        
        I’ve put up a list of topics and questions that I hope will be dealt with by a future Covid-19 Royal Commission. Suggestions for other topics and questions are welcome in the comments:
        
        I doubt that the Labour government will be willing to do it but there must be a Royal Commission on this subject. Perhaps it’s best delayed until 2024 anyway; as time removes us from this situation there will be fewer concerns about criticising poor decisions by both government and its bureaucracy. People will feel able to speak up and be heard.
        
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        November 15, 2021 1:52pm
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      “…. when a third dose is required to maintain optimal protection.”
      
      Honestly, at what point do you realise what is going on here?
      
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      November 15, 2021 11:28am
    - krazykiwi
      
      What you need for ‘optimal protection’ is a healthy immune system. Failing that you can settle for a protection that has no longitudinal safety and efficacy data, while being prepared to take the juice every 6 months just hoping for the best. Good luck with that.
      
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      November 15, 2021 11:58am
- Nickc2
  
  Do we revert to lockdowns until 90% of NZers are in receipt of their Vax boosters? That’ll be a hoot eh?
  How much more taxpayer money is going to be spent to bribe Maori to get their booster Vax?
  What about School Teachers, Nurses, Coppers, Fire Fighters and Air Travellers etc, do those that refuse a Booster lose their jobs/privileges?
  In short, are we to go through the whole Covid Vax drama again for Boosters? I haven’t heard anything from the POT about these things. It’s not as if it’s new to Cindy, Chippy, Robbo and Blossom.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:46am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Then revert to lockdowns again until everyone has their second booster, rinse and repeat every 4 months or so.
    
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    November 15, 2021 10:31am
    - Nickc2
      
      If Booster Vax’s aren’t treated with the same varacity as the initial two Covid Vax’s, it kinda makes a mockery out of what we’re going through now, doesn’t it?
      
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      November 15, 2021 12:58pm
- ABS4EVA
  
  KA CHING $$$$$$$$$
  For Pfizer
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:00am
- burt
  
  Yes indeed, we need to divide the population so we can tell one group the vaccine is safe and effective and they must get it while at the same time telling the other already vaccinated group their vaccine is failing and needs a booster.
  
  Coms dept nightmare, but we’ve got just the right person to smile while creating two classes of citizen.
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:19am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Don’t you realise – this is the clever but hidden plan of our Govt. The unvaxxed are the control group, so it can be guaged how effective long term the vax is 😆
    
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    November 15, 2021 11:39am
- Fishing in the dark
  
  We were told by these 3rd class experts the Pfizer vaccine is the solution for the absolute freedom without the booster.
  They lied to the entire nation and they well and truly f..cked up the entire country socially and financially with these senseless lockdowns.
  Really we have to get rid of these liars one way or the other.
  How come that 40% of hospitalisations are vaccinated, think about this. So the antivaxx do have a point.
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:32am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    40% of covid hospitalizations in NZ are currently vaxxed…. 1st & 2nd doses. (mid November)
    
    Exactly one month ago Dr Bloomfield and the MSM made a great deal of the fact that less than 2% of those in hospital with Covid had been double vaccinated. (3/170)
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300430956/covid19-4-per-cent-of-cases-fully-vaccinated-only-3-hospitalised
    
    What’s the betting that by December 15, at least half the hospitalised covid cases will be vaxxed?
    
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    November 15, 2021 10:29am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Given the relatively high uptake I guess that has to be expected. We do not have a significant number of naturally immune people to confound the statistics, unlike places like the UK.
      
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      November 15, 2021 10:32am
    - MCos
      
      How many fully vaccinated people have been infected in the current outbreak?
      
      The answer is 562/5751 slightly less than 10%
      Also 12/339 have been hospitalized, about 3%
      https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-case-demographics
      
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      November 15, 2021 8:23pm
  - frankflintstone
    
    Where can I see this 40% figure online? I have looked but can’t find it..Thx
    
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    November 15, 2021 4:03pm
- Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes
  
  More insanity – check page 14 http://www.fda.gov/media/153447/download re the Pfizer jab for kids in the US. They have altered the ingredients by taking out saline (harmless) and added tris(hydroxymethyl) aminomethane….what is that and why ? This is what it is http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5292305/ and is used for cardiac bypass surgery and metabolic acidosis associated with cardiac arrest. Why the F**k are they wanting kids aged 5-11 to have that in their system? Also, I understand that the pfizer vax is intra-muscular and Tris is usually injected into the blood stream to be effective? clowns/circus/clusterf**k ? I am guessing the same one will be introduced here before long.
  
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  November 15, 2021 1:00pm
- rouppe
  
  I’ve already read in one of their explainers the other day that the vaccine “pass” will have an expiration date
  
  https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/explained/126970111/covid19-how-new-zealand-vaccine-passes-will-work-and-how-to-get-one
  
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  November 15, 2021 1:59pm
- Scooter
  
  Once NZ has the vacc certificate it will be be valid for 6 months or more like in Europe, then they will update the rules like every other country. Boosters don’t count for now. NZ is just following the rules played by every other country. 3rd then 4th dose mandatory.
  
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  November 15, 2021 2:26pm
krazykiwi

Austria flourishing its tyranny-breeding pedigree:

Austria orders nationwide lockdown for the unvaccinated.

I expect Chancellor Alexander Schallenberg loves Wagner and is fond of animals too.
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November 15, 2021 8:01am
- Scott
  
  Ahh but krazy, does he keep the trains running on time? ?
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:04am
  - CJames
    
    No Scott – wrong despot – it’s the thousand year legacy we have to worry about. Though come to think of it, parallels with the fall of the Roman Empire (bread and circuses) and the royal houses of Europe may be appropriate.
    
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    November 15, 2021 8:20am
  - peterwn
    
    This is Austria, not Italy. Last time I was in Italy I was thinking of Benito when the Ligurian coast trains got screwed up (as they frequently do in the afternoons).
    
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    November 15, 2021 9:56am
  - oldfella
    
    Scott: and is he a keen painter who once had ambitions of going to art school, but was rejected as not good enough?
    
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    November 15, 2021 12:08pm
- Observer of Life
  
  KK: and is a vego?
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:56am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Read this earlier today:
  
  “Weird that I actually have to explain this, but taking things away from people until they agree to do what you tell them to isn’t giving them a choice.”
  It’s punishing them until they concede to your demands. Normally we would refer to this type of behaviour as manipulation and abuse.”
  
  “Kind and caring” just took on a whole new meaning.
  
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  November 15, 2021 1:03pm
  - bronny1
    
    A young lad who works with a young friend of mine in hospo had said he didn’t want the vax. It’s not mandatory yet and he knows the implications. Boss got the public health people including a vaccinator in to work to “talk to him”. If it hadn’t been for an older (fully vaxxed) staff member who intervened when he saw what was happening this 17 yo kid would have been talked into and jabbed there and then despite having already said no. Disgraceful coercion.
    
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    November 15, 2021 8:23pm
artemisia

In the Herald today (paywalled) –

[ Nope : Mod ]

Hospo, sparkies, lawyers …. And at the same time the UK and the US are offering Australians eyewatering bucks to cover their own shortages.

Coming to a country near you, especially if predictions here for the unvaxxed out of work turn out to be true.
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November 15, 2021 8:02am
- Jim
  
  Well done Jabcinda…..The NZ health system only functions by attracting the worlds most talented health care practitioners who want to live in a beautiful discrimination free society.
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:34am
artemisia

In the past, state tenants have not been an issue. Back in the day they were mostly two parent families at the lower end of the income scales getting on with their lives like everyone else.

Demographics are very different now for many and fairly obvious reasons, including household composition and ECON101.

Suggest the public sentiment tide is turning against KO tenants, including those thousands of households in transitional accomm, due to ever increasing numbers, more impacted neighbours and adverse media reports coming thick and fast.

Yet another media report today in the Herald –

Man fed up with antisocial Kāinga Ora neighbours, sells house and moves to South Island

Building more homes is not going to help much because the new rules protecting the tenure and responsibilities of risky private tenants is a huge disincentive to landlords. Why bother?
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November 15, 2021 8:04am
slightlyrighty

Booster Shots are already being administered in NZ.
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November 15, 2021 8:04am
- CJames
  
  As I discussed yesterday, they aren’t calling them booster shots. Don’t want to scare the populace.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:21am
Flossie

Another “firearm incident”?
And sadly too yet another multiple fatality traffic accident.
Is covid really the worst risk we have to face?
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November 15, 2021 8:05am
- CJames
  
  The Government is saying the growth is firearms incidents is proof the three strikes doesn’t work (It is in Hansard). Logic and critical thinking are not strong points in the Minister’s toolkits. Even 9 years of neglect is past its useby date.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:24am
  - amospicton
    
    The government is implying that if those 3 strikes prisoners with an average of 74 convictions each were in the community they’d be such a good influence over their feral kin that overall crime would drop. And I have a bridge to sell you.
    
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    November 15, 2021 9:06am
    - Nickc2
      
      Methinks Kelvin Davis is only interested in cleaning out our Jails in case there is another attempt to burn one or more of them down this Christmas.
      
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      November 15, 2021 11:57am
  - Ruawai
    
    You could connect that logic to anything eg the growth in firearms incidents is proof jail doesn’t work or proof the climate is warming proof the gun buy back didn’t work or proof being soft on gangs doesn’t work.
    
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    November 15, 2021 9:14am
  - Maxx
    
    Following Labours use of corollary logic then it is clear from their ineptitude during their first term, the election win in 2020 is proof that there are many people who are too stupid to be allowed the privilege of voting, equally that MMP doesn’t work.
    
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    November 15, 2021 9:16am
    - Ian Boag
      
      people who are too stupid to be allowed the privilege of voting
      
      Bloody democracy …. and 7 upticks! Must be true.
      
      MMP doesn’t work
      
      And FPP did …. ?
      
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      December 15, 2020 10:20am
      - Flossie
        
        Agree Ian. The result of Labour romping in would have been the same under either MMP or FPP. Unfortunately there was no need for another party to join them and be a Hand Brake….as if the Greens would have been any such thing!
        
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        November 15, 2021 10:29am
      - Ed Snack
        
        If you read carefully Ian, the snark is at the faulty logic being deployed by this administration, not at MMP as such. Maybe you missed that ?
        
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        November 15, 2021 10:35am
  - Ehlana
    
    Have to agree CJames, I think it is evident this government has neglected thinking for a lot more than 9 years now…
    
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    November 15, 2021 9:45am
Frank the tank

Places of interest in Taupo include a dodgy bar and strip club. 12 Police officers isolating in Rotovegas.

Watch there to be silence regarding the genome sequencing regarding these cases.
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November 15, 2021 8:07am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  I’m surprised police are isolating, they wear appropriate PPE right.
  
  They are not under a mandatory vaccination order. Why is this, they deal with the infected.
  
  But more importantly from an emergency management perspective if we lose 5% of our emergency workers, police, fire, ambulance, doctors and nurses, etc, the system could fall over in a real state of emergency.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:41am
Frank the tank

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/poll-gop-midterm-4-decades-rising-inflation

Batty’s mate in a whole lot of trouble…….

Who is a worse leader Brenda (Ardern) or Brandon?
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November 15, 2021 8:09am
- Rich Prick
  
  Let’s go Brenda … nice.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:23am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Imagine her face if a chant like that broke out at the next protest rally.
    
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    November 15, 2021 8:29am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Too thick to understand it. Lefties are born without a sense of humour
      
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      November 15, 2021 1:45pm
- septic skeptic
  
  Brenda
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:24am
- Inandout
  
  Frank, one US commentator described Biden as the most horrible President ever. In his mad rush to reverse every Trump decision the US economy is in a terrible state. Just imagine that country once exporting fossil fuels and now is an absolute basket case. Joe is as popular as rabies and his mental health is deteriorating quite rapidly.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:26am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Who would be our most horrible Prime Minister ever?
    
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    November 15, 2021 8:36am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    So he has a lot in common with our own dear leader.
    
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    November 15, 2021 8:43am
  - Fletch
    
    Yep, the U.S was energy independent under Trump – producing their own oil. Now they are reliant on OPEC again (whom Biden is blaming now) and prices are skyrocketing.
    
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    November 15, 2021 10:55am
    - Ian Boag
      
      U.S was energy independent under Trump
      
      Not really related to DT’s actions – more to do with the rise of fracking/tight oil production.
      
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      November 15, 2021 12:15pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        You do try, don’t you Ian. The policy settings of the Trump administration encouraged fracking and thus oil and gas production. Similarly the policy settings of the Biden administration have sharply discouraged the same activities. Exactly the same for the distribution networks of pipelines etc.
        
        Policies have results, and the USA is seeing exactly what many people said would be the result of the proposed policies of the Biden admin. Now they are reduced to begging OPEC for extra production from a position of considerable weakness, as well as trying to pretend that gas prices either don’t matter, really should go up, or it is just US citizens problem because they drive too much. Basically a Grade A clusterfuck, like almost all this administrations policies.
        
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        November 15, 2021 9:17pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Your a trier Ed ….
        
        Although total U.S. crude oil production generally declined between 1985 and 2008, annual production increased nearly each year from 2009 through 2019, reaching the highest amount on record in 2019. More cost-effective drilling technology (fracking of tight sands) helped to boost production, especially in Texas, North Dakota, Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Colorado. U.S crude oil production dropped by about 8% in 2020.
        
        Pre-Trump. Increase was related to production costs and market conditions. Decrease is similar. Biden has not been in the chair long enough to change any of this. Unless you can tell me which specific policies have led to the decrease in production and increase in price ….
        
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        November 15, 2021 9:33pm
  - alloytoo
    
    Joe’s mental health may well be in response to one of the most stressful jobs in the world.
    
    I knew a chat who gradually found his job more and more difficult and it got worse as get got more stressed about it. Eventually he was medically boarded. Relieved of that stress his cognitive situation improved.
    
    Of course this chap had had a brain hemorrhage in the 70’s from which he had rehabilitated which was catching up to him.
    
    What’s Joe’s excuse?
    
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    November 15, 2021 12:37pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Most horrible? How does he compare to Zachary P Taylor? Warren G Harding?
    
    Nope, thought not.
    
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    November 15, 2021 6:58pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      He’s the worst President of modern times, by far. For which both Obama and Carter are probably quite thankful to him.
      
      However I don’t know why people are surprised, he’s been in politics for over 40 years and always has been a totally mediocre small scale corruptocrat. Can’t even claim to be that successful at it, just that his noxious little schemes were laughed at by those really into mining the taxpayer dime, and weren’t considered worth prosecuting.
      
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      November 15, 2021 9:21pm
Yvette

… in a sit-down with Newsroom on Thursday, Ardern didn’t rule out moving the whole country into the [traffic light] framework, despite the fact many DHBs won’t be at, or even near, a 90 percent vaccination rate.
Ardern says that’s because the Covid protection framework “could play a role in helping us drive rates up as well,’’ she told Newsroom.
In some parts of regional New Zealand, the unvaccinated are for the most part enjoying everyday freedoms and have little incentive to get jabbed – especially if they have no knowledge the traffic light system is even being introduced.
Ardern accepts the traffic light system, and its greater freedoms intentionally targeted at the vaccinated, provides a bit more incentive to get jabbed than Level 2 currently does.
“So, we haven’t made any decisions, but I do have in the back of my mind that that was the way in which it was designed to work.’’
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/cabinet-weighing-up-early-move-into-traffic-light-system

“I do have in the back of my mind that that was the way in which it was designed to work”.
Is it basic anxiety that can cause an obtuse mental approach to a matter “oneself” participated in designing – or is it political manoeuvring and assume that the collective population of New Zealand has a cognitive deficiency?
Is Absolution Just a Mental Hand Wash Away?
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November 15, 2021 8:10am
- G152
  
  COVID
  
  Is spreading slowly but its spreading and liebor have lost the plot.
  All the containment didn’t work, masks didn’t work. the jabs just mean you dont get as sick but you can still get COVID and infect others. And you can get a jab to reinforce those previous jabs
  Businesses have gone to the wall, somehow Liebor have fudged the unemployment figures.
  People are refused the right to gather and protest this taking of our rights.
  AND
  
  The media who Liebor bought continue to attack the opposition who are NOT in power.
  No checks or balances
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:30am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    The jabs just mean you don’t get sick
    
    Something that means you “don’t get sick” – from a virus that can kill people – isn’t a “just”; it is a huge benefit, and a massive achievement by the pharmaceutical companies. It means that the fact that vaccinated people can still (albeit less likely) catch and pass on the virus – doesn’t matter.
    
    Nor do I understand why it’s so terrible that we may have to repeat the process. There are plenty of processes, both medical and non-medical, that we have to repeat at regular intervals.
    
    Of course it would be better if the vaccine was 100% effective at preventing infection and worked once and for all. But the fact that it falls short of perfection hardly makes it unique in the field of human endeavour. Everything does, and no progress in human wellbeing would ever have been made if we refused to adopt anything that wasn’t 100% perfect.
    
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    November 15, 2021 8:54am
    - Fletch
      
      I’m betting that the vaccines are injuring more than the virus at this point.
      
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      November 15, 2021 10:58am
  - Ruawai
    
    Do be fair to Labour I don’t think people wear masks in strip clubs, just saying.
    
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    November 15, 2021 9:11am
    - alloytoo
      
      We if they just permitted smoking in the Strip club things would improve.
      
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      November 15, 2021 12:38pm
- Mr_Blobby
  
  So a big chunk of NZ who under the relative freedom of level 2 are going to lose some privacy and freedom.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:47am
  - Nickc2
    
    That’s because Cindy can carry out two conversations simultaneously, one out of each side of her mouth and they both involve lies.
    
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    November 15, 2021 11:48am
altiora

And now we are told that 29 November wasn’t “freedom day” rather it is the day Cabinet will decide what freedom we get. Apparently The Great Communicator assures the media that there was no confusion in previous announcements. For God’s sake people, wake up! She has no intention to give up control.
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November 15, 2021 8:12am
- Julie
  
  And just below that article was another with the headline PM says 29 November is Freedom Day!
  So who is causing confusion?
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:57am
- ecco
  
  Will be more announcements of announcements today. More vague statements ‘we definitely want Aucklanders to be travel over xmas/summer’, which could be two very different dates.
  
  It will definitely be something on 29/11 like ‘you can wait another week and start travelling on 6/12. Businesses need time to prepare’. What a load of sh*t.
  
  Agreed just trying to hold on to communist type power. No certainty for Auckland hospo, Auckland travellers and also the rest of NZ who rely on Aucklanders travelling to their towns in the summer holidays.
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:29am
  - mawm
    
    I’m waiting to see how it pans out as the vaxxed are allowed to leave Auckland in droves, the Hospo in Akl throw open their doors and there are only deplorables left who are not be allowed to enter. That’ll work. /s
    
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    November 15, 2021 10:23am
  - Ra Henare
    
    I am always bemused by the concept that business needs to prepare!!
    
    What?
    The Governments job is to regulate.
    Whats wrong with making the announcement that Auckland? NZ changes to purple status(whatever) tonight at 11:59.
    
    Get rid of the PR/Political spin doctors and just make the dang decision.
    
    I look at Cambodia, a supposed 3rd world country. Every step of the way(relating to the last 22 months) they show show NZ as a relative nut case when it comes to systems & decisions.
    
    Lockdowns that made Level 4 look like freedom.
    
    Vaccination of population ramping up to 77% plus verse NZ 65% from a similar starting point (and they have 16 million people)
    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-people-fully-vaccinated-covid?time=2021-03-25..latest&country=KHM~NZL
    
    Announcements are made in Cambodia with almost immediate effect.
    Lockdowns on/off announced in afternoon/evenings for effect midnight that day.
    
    They have been reducing border quarantines for fully vaxed. First to 7 days, 3 days and today zero.
    Announcement made today effective today.
    Not the joke NZ approach which is to give a few weeks notice.
    
    Just need a pre boarding negative test and an on arrival negative test (the fast kind -results in 15 minutes).
    
    Having experienced both systems. It highlights how Pathetic the NZ setup is
    
    But then again they are not driven by feelz and PR spin.
    
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    November 15, 2021 10:48am
    - altiora
      
      That’s because Cambodia’s government and its people, unlike New Zealand’s, isn’t sky-high on the opiate of a hundred billion plus of borrowed money.
      
      Like being hanged in the morning, not being able to borrow addictively focuses the mind.
      
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      November 15, 2021 1:04pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        I disagree.
        It because they are not driven by politics, but getting shit done.
        
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        November 15, 2021 7:30pm
- Ehlana
  
  I think what may force an early December freedom day is what has forced action from this government before – pressure from the opposition. Judith Collins nominated 1 December, IIRC, so it has to be different date.
  
  Which, by the way, they have been working on for weeks and was always going to be like that and no, they are not making up policy on the hoof in response to National, Act, businesses, polling or anything else…
  I have a bridge with cycling and walking lanes attached for sale. Totally reimagined recently!
  
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  November 15, 2021 10:16am
- Southern Raider
  
  Leo Malloy says differently
  
  I hope he follows through with his fixed date to open, has a packed bar and media show cops pulling out lawful citizens from being able to live their lives
  
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  November 15, 2021 10:19am
krazykiwi

I wonder if any teachers will be dragged from their classrooms today?
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November 15, 2021 8:12am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Maybe not literally. But yes
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:16am
- Yvette
  
  As Krazykiwi points out –
  Today also marks the deadline by which workers in the education, health and disability sectors had to have the first dose of the Covid-19 vaccine under the mandates that apply to their sectors.
  
  Can an unvaccinated front-line police officer arrest an education, health or disability worker for being unvaccinated?
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:17am
  - KiwiSapper
    
    I recall one of my Avondale College teachers favourite chants…
    “Can”, means do I have the ability.
    “May” means do I have the permission.
    Many of my class mates were lulled into a false sense of security, then harshly disillusioned.
    
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    November 15, 2021 8:48am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    Will an unvaccinated police officer on duty be allowed to visit anywhere a vaccination mandate is in place.
    
    On duty or off duty.
    
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    November 15, 2021 8:51am
  - sooty
    
    They have said that they will get the poolice to drag them off school property!
    
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    November 15, 2021 9:04am
  - Jim
    
    Reading this today is quite sobering…..I still can’t believe any true leader would so gleefully institute such a discriminatory policy, that is clearly designed to entrap business with only one economically viable choice. Shame on the politicians, indeed where is their jab mandate (they interface with all levels of society).
    
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    November 15, 2021 2:33pm
- Mr_Blobby
  
  My guess is annual leave.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:49am
  - bronny1
    
    My sister taught her last day today. Her degree is in statistics along with the other teacher leaving her department. They individually spent a lot of time analysing the data available overseas before making reasoned decisions to leave. She was shouted at by a fully vaxxed English teacher and called an anti vaxxer and conspiracy theorist.
    
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    November 15, 2021 8:35pm
I remember when

Nz lead the world (again).
Banksy to design new vaccination passports.
They automatically thread themselves after…..
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November 15, 2021 8:14am
KevO'Brien

James Shaw too? A little more global financial planning at Glasgow? A bit conspiritorial maybe but it does explain the cross linkages the rich are producing.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/un-backed-banker-alliance-announces-green-plan-transform-global-financial-system/5761351
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November 15, 2021 8:15am
- Rich Prick
  
  I really can’t be fucked with “climate change”, the left have overloaded me with other shit to be worried about. One in, one out is my new rule.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:42am
  - sooty
    
    A wee holiday in Europe aswell while he is offshaw to grab chrissy presents from the posh shops like Harrods and sup lattes in trendy cafes!
    
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    November 15, 2021 9:06am
  - pdm
    
    Yes – `so called’ climate change is only NATURE doing what it has always done.
    
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    November 15, 2021 10:24am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    The climate change agenda is inexorably intertwined with the Covid agenda. Two sides, same coin.
    
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    November 15, 2021 11:36am
Bridgenag

Sent to me this morning. Appears to have gone to the opposition….

David Rankin, Ngapuhi kaumatua.
Direct descendant of Hone Heke.
A part-Maori with mana.
It may surprise many New Zealanders, but a growing number of Maori are fed up with the Waitangi Tribunal, and the entire Treaty gravy train.
There is a stereotype of Maori collecting millions of dollars in settlement money and living the easy life. The reality is very different. Here are a few facts:
1. The Tribunal makes up history as it goes along. A growing number of New Zealand historians are pointing this out, although most of them are labelled as racist for doing so. Facts are omitted in Tribunal reports, and evidence is shaped in some cases to fit predetermined outcomes.. As an example, I gave evidence at a Tribunal hearing about my ancestor Hone Heke, the first chief to sign the Treaty. However, because the oral history of our whanau did not fit with the Tribunal’s narrative, my testimony was excluded. Yet, several radicals with little knowledge of our history had their testimony included because it fitted with the separatist agenda. This leads to point 2.
2. In the 1970s, many of us hoped that the Tribunal would be an organisation that would achieve reconciliation. It has turned out to be a body that is bringing in apartheid to New Zealand. This sounds dramatic, until you see how it advocates for race-based access to certain areas, and race-based management policies for Crown land.
3. Treaty settlements make tribal corporations rich, with the help of favourable tax status and often little or no rates to pay. So with these advantages its pretty easy to become super profitable. But do you think the average Maori sees any benefit from this? None at all. I have been asked several times to be on trust boards and have been offered large sums of money to do so. I refuse. History will judge the kupapa (traitors) who have abandoned our people for money.
4. The tribunal is a bully. Go against it, and you will be labelled a racist or worse. Yet, who does it help? Apart from a few elite Maori who have become millionaires from the process, there is no benefit to Maori overall. Drive through Huntly or anywhere in Tuhoe and you wont find any evidence of these multi hundred million dollar settlements.
Lets be clear. The Tribunal exists to make lawyers, and a few elite Maori very rich. It has deprived our people from their birthright and divided and destroyed many of our communities. The sooner it is shut down the better.
David Hone Heke Rankin
Te Matarahurahu hapu
Ngapuhi
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November 15, 2021 8:16am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  As a direct decendant of Rewi Maniapoto I have to concur with all of that.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:57am
- KiwiSapper
  
  I am VERY impressed.
  Especially pleasing to see that he recognises and describes himself as “part Maori”.
  IMHO if all those who claim to be be “Maori” were thrown into a large metaphorical melting pot and then the brew distilled, the Maori population of New Zealand would drop from the assessed 17% to 0.17%
  Wotcha fink?
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:58am
  - Flossie
    
    Yep. Me included.
    
    13 0
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    November 15, 2021 10:13am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Don’t understand how refusing to be on trust boards helps. He could do more to help to address the problems from inside the tent, than by moaning outside it. If he doesn’t want to accept the money, he could always divert it to a proper charity
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:01am
  - Ra Henare
    
    He would not wanted to be tainted by association.
    
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    November 15, 2021 10:52am
- Maxx
  
  It is and always has been an issue with history is that truth is placed by those who interpret the historical records and try to piece the puzzle together. It is upsetting that evidence is left out of testimony; it should be included and instead given a reason why it wasn’t accepted in a determination. By leaving it out it hampers historians when they uncover other knowledge, not to mention looking like a narrative was predetermined.
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:31am
- Nickc2
  
  Well said Mr. Rankin. Will this find its way into our MSM? I doubt it but I’m prepared to be corrected if it does.
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:53am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I met David Rankin once in a pub somewhere up north. Did not know him. You know when you talk to someone and you get the feeling they are the real McCoy?
  He is one of them.
  
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  November 15, 2021 1:57pm
Rusty

Other than the disappointing results for the ABs and Black caps over the weekend has anyone noticed something else about these matches?

50,000 mostly unmasked fans watching the game in Dublin and a full crowd at the UAE’s match plus over 60,000 fans watching the Aust v Eng match in London.

The people in the UK and elsewhere are just getting on with life and living with the virus.

But not here, we have to be different and believe the experts that lock downs and restrictions are for our own good while the rest of world ditches all that.
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November 15, 2021 8:16am
- kevn
  
  @Rusty… Natural immunity slowly evaporating away.
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:04am
- sooty
  
  The allblacks were jinxed when met at the airport by the Irish doing the haka! It worked!
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:08am
- Ruawai
  
  And the Irish are only 75% double vaxed.
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:08am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Jacinda’s protecting her people and saving lives – otherwise it’s all just about the money, aye.
  
  Cindy’s no granny killer, you know…
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:12am
- Hard Cheese
  
  I watched parts of the Italy/Argentina, SA/Scotland and the France/Black Ferns games and noticed the same thing. Large crowds, didn’t see a lot of masks. Life has moved on in Italy, France and Scotland it seems.
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:17am
  - Nickc2
    
    Yes, our media were indicating Covid was going to wipe out the whole Italian population at one point.
    They were certainly interviewing their own keyboards with regard to that.
    
    15 1
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    November 15, 2021 9:47am
- Nickc2
  
  IMO, Covid-19 is being used for political purposes in NZ.
  There’s a saying that goes along the lines of: if a politician can’t make political capital out of a crisis, they’re in the wrong business.
  Our brain-dead Govt is hard at it.
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:36am
- MCos
  
  What a short memory you have, Rusty.
  Three months ago the ABs played Oz at Eden Park in front of a mask free crowd of people who may or may not have been vaccinated with no known covid cases in Auckland at the time.
  The UK & Ireland is riddled with the virus.
  I was reading on a friend’s FB page that someone over there waited 13 hours for an ambulance for his dad who’d had a stroke.
  Someone else was told there was a 12 hour wait.
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:48am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    It’s just a timing difference, guys. They’re out the other side. We have yet to do the hard yards.
    
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    November 15, 2021 7:04pm
Inandout

Today’s the day Jacinda’s advisers have their picnic and the ‘vaccine persondates’ will apply to health workers having had their first jab, at least.
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November 15, 2021 8:17am
- Ehlana
  
  So, what is the vaccine mandate date for Labour Party politicians?
  
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  November 15, 2021 10:39am
Bridgenag

Also sent from Chris Bishop…….

“Did you know that right now there are just 35 people with COVID in MIQ in New Zealand (out of over 4000 people), while there are 1773 people with COVID isolating at home?

The New Zealand government is overseeing a ridiculous situation where people who actually have COVID isolate at home, not in quarantine, but fully vaccinated travellers who don’t have COVID have to go into MIQ.”
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November 15, 2021 8:20am
- Tony Stuart
  
  When the situation is put forward as Bishop has done, it really is, as he describes it “a ridiculous situation”.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:36am
Frank the tank

So it this stage it is unknown if vaccine passports from other parts of the world will work in New Zimbabwe. The preliminary information suggests they won’t.

Let that sink in and how it will affect your plans to get out of this country when Dear leader let’s you out.
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November 15, 2021 8:20am
- sooty
  
  If theirs don’t work here!
  Why would ours work there!
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:10am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  There is only one international vaccination credential that will get you on any plane service outside NZ, the IATA app. It is a complete waste of time & money for NZ to invent it’s own version.
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:20am
  - Ehlana
    
    So a government with half a brain would be wanting to link into that. True, it’s an app and some people might not yet have app capable phones.
    
    I suspect it would cost less to give them such phones, pre-installed with the right hardware and with learning support in how to use them, than it will to try and create our own app.
    
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    November 15, 2021 11:31am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Yellow fever card for me. Even got vaccines put in after a lot of negotiations. to the dismay of MOH “ring in” present.
    
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    November 15, 2021 12:54pm
All_on_Red

We really should be performing mass testing to see how many of us have had Covid already.

‘The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has admitted it has no record of an unvaccinated person spreading COVID after having previously recovered from the virus….

The bombshell revelation comes on the heels of a wave of scientific data that has shown natural immunity to be extremely robust at preventing coronavirus reinfection. Studies from the Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis, Emory University, the Cleveland Clinic, and others have found natural immunity to be incredibly strong months and even a year after infection.’
https://thefederalist.com/2021/11/12/cdc-admits-it-has-no-evidence-of-recovered-covid-patients-spreading-the-virus/
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November 15, 2021 8:23am
- mawm
  
  Who would have thought that natural broadbased immunity would be better than inoculated immunity against a single spike protein that is mutating? /sarc
  Maybe we should have done what has always been accepted management and inoculated the vulnerable and let the healthy go out and play.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:41am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Hence the need to urgently force everyone to be vaccinated.
  
  Cover up the inconsistencies and incompetence.
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:01am
- ClanMcleod
  
  It would be an opportune time to ask the government (again) why they banned the importation of antibody tests 18 months ago.
  
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  November 15, 2021 10:28am
I remember when

Once again the calls are going out for something to be done to improve ‘deadly’ stretch of SH1 near Levin.
It has lead to the sensible call for the new motorway extensions to be fast-tracked.
The truth is that SH 1 between Sanson and Wellington, has never had more speed restrictions or safety features.
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November 15, 2021 8:23am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  You can kiss goodbye to any motorway extensions as long as we’re saddled with this incompetent Government.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:46am
  - Paulus
    
    Transmission Gully – Not finished – Yea !
    
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    November 15, 2021 1:58pm
- Maxx
  
  Clearly what we need here is some light rail. Maybe a tunnel under Levin? With a nice cycleway. Job done.
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:34am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Yes, IRW, but the road has never had the volume of traffic either.
  
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  November 15, 2021 7:07pm
Scott

This from the daily mail today – “Three men have been arrested as part of a terror probe after one person died and another was injured when a taxi pulled up and exploded at Liverpool Women’s Hospital seconds before the 11am Remembrance Sunday silence began.
The men, aged 29, 26 and 21, were arrested under the Terrorism Act in Kensington, Liverpool, police said.”

Now these people could be right wing, Trump supporting, Baptists? But if I was a betting man, I’d put my money on the religion of peace. Sad.
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November 15, 2021 8:30am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Could be IRA as the date is significant I hear.
  
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  November 15, 2021 10:16am
  - Ehlana
    
    The 1987 Poppy Day massacre was in Northern Ireland though. So I think a link to Liverpool Women’s Hospital is a bit of a stretch.
    
    There is a group calling itself the New IRA who still think killing people somehow makes them right.
    
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    November 15, 2021 10:51am
- Big Haz
  
  Looks more like it’s ISIS
  
  https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/16734365/liverpool-hospital-explosion-hero-cabbie/
  
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  November 15, 2021 5:25pm
Mike H S

A bit of a change of focus.

A dig to join New Lynn waste water to Mangere has found some shells and also coral. This is estimated to be from 3.5 million years ago. As one of the archeologists said, it proves that the waters around NZ were a lot warmer and able to support coral. Before you ask, NZ has drifted North in the history of continental drift so we have only been closer to the South Pole.

Therefore, because we have obviously had waters around us that have been significantly warmer than we have now, it proves that an increase of a couple of degrees is not going to cause the end of the Earth. We should therefore not be accepting a drop in our standard of living to “save the planet”.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018818233/fossils-about-3-5-million-years-old-found-in-auckland-tunnel-dig
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November 15, 2021 8:30am
- dime
  
  The only way to know that for sure is by implementing new taxes and transferring wealth to shit hole countries.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:37am
  - dcrane
    
    And carrying around digital hall passes that will regulate our access to civic life and the economy to limit our ’emissions’
    
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    November 15, 2021 10:09am
    - Ed Snack
      
      And record our “social credit” score…
      
      8 0
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      November 15, 2021 10:54am
  - ISeeRed
    
    How dare you! They self-identify as “countries of faeces”.
    
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    November 15, 2021 5:48pm
- dcrane
  
  Also check out “Eocene thermal maximum”, 55 million years ago.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleocene%E2%80%93Eocene_Thermal_Maximum
  
  and this
  
  https://animalogic.ca/animalogic/the-north-pole-was-once-home-to-crocodiles
  
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  November 15, 2021 10:12am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Seashells are also in concretions found in Taumarunui. How ’bout that? How did they get there.
  Rockhound.
  
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  November 15, 2021 2:05pm
dime

“Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has clarified that “Freedom Day” will not be November 29 – that is the day Cabinet will decide the date – but she expects it to be “very soon after”.”

we have a freedom day. my god.
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November 15, 2021 8:39am
- sooty
  
  Will it be a public holiday for ever?
  
  10 0
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  November 15, 2021 9:31am
- dcrane
  
  You can’t make this stuff up anymore.
  
  14 1
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  November 15, 2021 10:07am
- Bluegrass
  
  Like a mirage – you walk towards it but it always remains just on the horizon.
  
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  November 15, 2021 12:17pm
- septic skeptic
  
  Freedom day is December 6. Take it to the bank. Don’t believe me? Take a look at Air NZ flight numbers before the 6th compared with 6th and later dates.
  
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  November 15, 2021 12:33pm
Maggie Pie

Ardern government polices have created a ‘Maori elite’ who rely on ‘victimhood’….

– not the NZH

https://twitter.com/stephen78440330/status/1459776920724279298
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November 15, 2021 8:44am
dime

What a shitty headline from the Herald:

“Twenty20 Cricket World Cup final: Black Caps fall short again”

So Negative.

We made the world cup final in all 3 formats of the game. No other country did.
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November 15, 2021 8:50am
- sooty
  
  As bridesmaids!
  
  8 2
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  November 15, 2021 9:32am
  - dime
    
    we won the world test championship.
    
    winning the t20 is like winning a 7’s title.
    
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    November 15, 2021 9:37am
  - Cinematic
    
    Not in the important one.
    
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    November 15, 2021 9:57am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    2019 ODI World Cup final – beaten by England on a tie-breaker after a Super Over
    2021 World Test Championship final – beat India by eight wickets
    2021 T20I World Cup final – lost to Australia by eight wickets
    
    No other nation made two of the last three finals, let alone all three. New Zealand’s consistency in all three formats of the game is the best it has been in my sixty-plus years of following cricket.
    
    Let’s not forget that we’re a minnow in the cricket world, in terms of playing numbers. Our First Class cricket, where there are six teams, is probably equal to the standard of grade cricket in Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane. To be playing at the level we do, for such a small cricket community, is a real achievement.
    
    Australia was too good for us this morning. But as a cricket purist it’s the test game that matters most for me, and we are the World Champions in that format!
    
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    November 15, 2021 9:59am
    - greybeard
      
      We have done well Tony, but I feel that with 172 runs on the board today we should have been bowling to contain the Australians, not always trying to aggressively bowl them out.
      
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      November 15, 2021 10:07am
kevn

@Maggie… Must have been a good ‘un. Gone.
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November 15, 2021 9:02am
- Maggie Pie
  
  LOL!!
  That bloody @jack ….he’s SUCH a lefty wuss.
  Personally, I thort stephen’s comment was fairly innocuous 😀
  
  Here’s the article – sans the ‘offending’ tweet.
  
  https://twitter.com/SkyNewsAust/status/1459775702090215432
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:42am
  - Bridgenag
    
    Casey Costello What a gal!
    
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    November 15, 2021 10:40am
KevO'Brien

Planning your holidays. Bezos is looking ahead to when he in control:
https://www.rt.com/usa/540203-bezos-earth-population-limit/
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November 15, 2021 9:03am
ldypen

Just received a confused call from my 80+ mother telling me my even older dad has woken this morning with blood in his urine. They live in Thames, I am in Auckland and need to get down there to support them and help sort this all out. Does any one believe I will get a boarder exemption, or am I more likely to get standard rejection letter from some faceless bureaucratic ahole?
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November 15, 2021 9:05am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  No disrespect to your dad but a ‘boarder’ is someone who rents your spare room. The word is ‘border’.
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:27am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Unless you want to take your boarder with you to Thames, of course.
    
    10 3
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    November 15, 2021 9:31am
  - ldypen
    
    Thanks Admiral 🙂
    
    3 0
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    November 15, 2021 10:23am
- dcrane
  
  Here is a page with the allowed reasons for crossing the boundary:
  
  https://covid19.govt.nz/travel/permitted-travel-at-different-alert-levels/personal-travel-across-an-alert-level-boundary/list-of-permitted-personal-travel-across-an-alert-level-boundary/
  
  Under “emergencies”:
  You can travel if it is necessary to preserve your own or any other person’s life or safety.
  
  You can cross the boundary in either direction.
  
  Healthcare and emergencies
  Evidence required
  Purpose of travel and destination
  
  Drivers must have their driver’s licence, and everyone should have a photo ID unless it is not reasonably practicable, for example minors.
  
  You do not need any other form of evidence, but if you have any that helps explain your situation, for example a letter from a police officer or social worker, you should carry it.
  COVID-19 test
  
  You do not need to carry evidence of a COVID-19 test or a negative COVID-19 test result.
  
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  November 15, 2021 10:04am
- dannz
  
  If you know someone with a truck or van, carrying freight is an easy exemption to get.
  
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  November 15, 2021 10:09am
- NoFax
  
  The better option than applying for a medical exemption (you won’t get one) is to find someone in Thames that requires a “worker” from across the border – like an engineer or something. You don’t have to be an actual engineer. They are not cross-referencing this with the IRD or any other agency etc.
  
  They Police aren’t policing the border that hard – just need to see a negative test, exemption letter, and your ID (driver’s licence).
  
  It worked for a friend of mine who had to return to Hamilton to attend to his father’s estate.
  
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  November 15, 2021 10:13am
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  Just go to Thames regardless. Stop complying.
  
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  November 15, 2021 11:41am
  - Flossie
    
    What? Just drive over the policeman?
    
    7 0
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    November 15, 2021 3:26pm
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      Yeah you’re probably right. Slavery it is, then.
      
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      November 15, 2021 4:40pm
ABS4EVA

Do the MONGREL MOB

Have enough MONEY $$$$$$$ ? ? ? ?

Some one please check

IF not could someone organise a few more
Kumbaya Koha$

Please Hurry Australian Security disrupted their
Criminal Network and they may not be able
to buy each other NEW Harleys for Christmas

PLEASE HELP

Call your Labour MP

More money for THE MOB
More money for THE MOB
More money for THE MOB

Call your Labour MP

Get them to check Do they have enough?

GIVE THE MOB More

GIVE THE MOB More

MORE MORE MORE Tax $$$ for the MOB
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November 15, 2021 9:05am
igm

Another top post:
https://thebfd.co.nz/2021/11/15/my-sister-has-another-message-for-jacinda/
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November 15, 2021 9:06am
- Bridgenag
  
  She is amazing … Good one to send on to younger people on Twitter, facebook etc
  
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  November 15, 2021 10:00am
Tony Stuart

A very good piece of work from National’s Housing spokeswoman Nicola Willis; she tweets:

Nicola Willis
@NicolaWillisMP
Data released to me indicates Labour has banned the eviction of state house tenants.

It’s a naive and cruel policy for which innocent New Zealanders are now paying the price.

Not to mention the 24,000+ other Kiwis in the endless queue for a state house…

https://twitter.com/NicolaWillisMP/status/1459678968181784578

Her tweet includes a media release, where she explains the situation in further detail. Answers to parliamentary questions she has put show Kainga Ora has not evicted anyone since 2018!

She also refers to the situation made public yesterday of the elderly Whangarei couple who have been forced to move because of the intimidation they have received, including death threats, from their state house neighbours. It’s impossible to disagree with her when she describes the situation as “unacceptable”, and she goes on to state:

There must be consequences for people who abuse their state tenancy and use it as a platform for victimising others in a most revolting way.

It appears that, under Labour, state house tenants can get away with virtually anything, with little consequence.

Who knew that it was now all but impossible to be evicted from a state house? The Minister responsible for this is reportedly Poto Williams, who of course has shown in her capacity as Police Minister that she puts the feelings of the perpetrators of crime ahead of those of the victims of crime.

And whilst the elderly couple from Whangarei are victims here, there’s another victim; the long-suffering New Zealand taxpayer, who is propping Kainga Ora up whilst they roll out policies on behalf of the Government that are offensive to many of us.
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November 15, 2021 9:12am
- igm
  
  This is what one gets from Sepuloni’s voting base. Ask any tradie maintaining state properties what they are like . . . animals, vile abusers, unfit for purpose. To top it off, they need to lock their vans every time they take tools out, because they get stolen by these taxpayer-kept bludgers.
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:35am
- Maxx
  
  And yet their is a requirement under the Residential Tenancies Act that tennents can’t cause or permit any interference with the reasonable peace, comfort, or privacy of any other person residing in the neighbourhood.
  
  I believe Kainga Ora is still bound by this legislation, and it seems to me (not a lawyer) that if the tenant continues the behavior then the required action by KO is to evict. And I would think in this situation then the evictee would need to apply again which would place them at the rear of the queue.
  
  Maybe it’s time for a class action suit against Kainga Ora where they haven’t taken action.
  
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  November 15, 2021 10:01am
  - alex Masterley
    
    Perhaps what is quaintly called an action in nuisance against KO seeking damages and a mandatory order that they enforce their tennacy agreements.
    
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    November 15, 2021 12:24pm
    - Rich Prick
      
      Reminds me of Dorset Yacht Club. Warehousing scum is a non-natural use of the land.
      
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      November 15, 2021 2:22pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Any govt has a problem with very badly behaved social housed tenants. Presumably they got the tenancy through observed need. If they get evicted the need likely remains. Unless they are in prison, including families the Taxpayers still pick up the tab.
  There are some who will never be brought into line. Maybe they are housed by another more watchful social housing provider.
  
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  November 15, 2021 10:25am
  - Ehlana
    
    A supervised housing area, in either an industrial or rural zone, with basic housing built to be as indestructible as they can make it. Fortunately, the industrial look is in right now.
    
    A plan for working your way out once you get there – by demonstrating care for your housing unit, good behaviour towards your community, progress in childcare, education, employment.
    
    Nice taxpayer-funded houses pepper potted around ordinary residential suburbs should go to those who can and will look after them. And should also come with a plan for moving on.
    
    We probably do need some ongoing supported housing in our residential areas, for those who can live sociably if appropriately supported.
    
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    November 15, 2021 11:01am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The latter supported housing occurs as “pensioner housing” in some places.
      
      4 1
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      November 15, 2021 1:54pm
  - Bridgenag
    
    Landlord: How are the new tenants above you.
    Renter: They are ok. But it sounds like they are bang on the floor every night at 1 in the morning.
    Landlord: That is outrageous. I will talk to them at once.
    Renter: No. It is really not that big of a deal. I am usually up then practising my trumpet.
    
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    November 15, 2021 1:22pm
Maggie Pie

CREEEEEEPY

Even the look on Jill’s face is a tell 😀 😀 😀

https://twitter.com/AF632/status/1459623888350945280
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November 15, 2021 9:29am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, I have consoled kids at funerals with a hug, but not with wandering hands. Maybe an old clip but Joe has a reputation for this sort of thing. I love the way Trump was shunted into the discussion as a diversion.
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:45am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    My grandad would never have kissed me like that in public.
    
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    November 15, 2021 10:25am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Dr Jill’s face is priceless.
    She has to stand there and watch it knowing if she did stop him, that would be a huge story.
    She’ll be volunteering to hold the pillow down soon…
    
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    November 15, 2021 12:37pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Pillow from Mike Lindell?
      
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      November 15, 2021 2:13pm
- Rich Prick
  
  Jesus! What is wrong with that guy?
  
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  November 15, 2021 10:57am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    Advanced pedophilia?
    
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    November 15, 2021 11:43am
Yabster

From the Taxpayers union:

We asked Mahuta very clearly whether Three Waters would result in the introduction of water royalties (i.e. payments to iwi for the right to use water). Mahuta ducked, dived, and ran up our limited interview time with standard talking points, but ultimately failed to rule out introducing water royalties.
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November 15, 2021 9:50am
- KevO'Brien
  
  What about the possibility of the sale of the Maori rights being sought to another external party?
  
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  November 15, 2021 10:29am
  - Bridgenag
    
    Yes …….. Weren’t the exclusive fishing rights in the North subcontracted to Korea?
    
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    November 15, 2021 10:45am
- Hard Cheese
  
  Her answer to the iwi governance questions always seemed to be to “protect water services from privatisation”, the presumption being that Maori would never allow their precious taonga to be owned by a filthy corporate entity. Not sure how colonial water pipes and waste treatment plants suddenly became so revered by Maori.
  
  But anyway, even if you see privatisation of water services as undesirable, you don’t need iwi governance to prevent it. Just pass laws under the current system of local government management that don’t permit it.
  
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  November 15, 2021 11:15am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Passing Ownership to Iwi IS privatising it!
    
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    November 15, 2021 12:38pm
Yabster

From the Taxpayers union- these grants are bloody idiotic!!
You can’t beat COVID with Māori Pokemon
Once again, we’ve delved into dodgy arts grants handed out in the guise of the COVID response.

This time it’s not Creative NZ, but the parent agency – the Ministry for Culture and Heritage – which is splurging with a new $60 million COVID-19 “Innovation Fund”.

Here’s a small sample of the taxpayer-funded projects announced so far:

$585,000 to develop a te Reo Māori virtual reality game.

$20,000 on “a digital storytelling platform using the vaka [canoe] as medium for navigating and exploring Tokelauan heritage”

$2,110,000 for live music venues to increase diversity.

$290,000 to “an online game for rangatahi [youth] that imagines a Māori future”.

$500,000 on a tool to give readers book recommendations that reflect intersectionality and gender diversity.

$328,405 to develop a Pokemon Go-style augmented reality game based on Te Ao Māori.

$1,323,000 on two productions of Māori performing arts.

It is hard to see how a Māori ripoff of Pokemon Go could be considered a COVID-19 response. Especially when our health system is crying out for more nurses and ICU beds.
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November 15, 2021 9:52am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Apart from stifling taxpayers futures what authority is there for such expenditure?
  
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  November 15, 2021 10:31am
  - Paulus
    
    Maori do not need authority for such things – it is their right under the Treaty.
    
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    November 15, 2021 2:04pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    This is the spending of Public Monies. I.e. taken from taxpayers or families futures.
    
    Accountability is needed. I understand James Shaw has committed another billion or more to foreigners.
    
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    November 15, 2021 4:14pm
thirteenstars

Don Brash on housing prices:

A friend offered me a clue by noting that, in a paddock in Papakura, 400 square metre sections are currently on sale for $977,000. The section alone is wildly beyond the budget of ordinary wage and salary earners. Why? Quite simply because Auckland Council has made it illegal to build homes beyond the Metropolitan Urban Boundary…

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/housing-prices

The party that runs on a specific set of measures to free up vast areas of land for housing development will do very, very well in the next election.

I don’t expect it will be National as they are are fully captured by the Blue-Greens and will offer little but platitudes and hand-waving.

ACT should hammer the hell out of this. An entire generation of hardworking Kiwis are being disenfranchised upon the altar of vicious environmental ideology which has created a two-tier society of those who own property and those who will never acquire it.
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November 15, 2021 9:57am
- thirteenstars
  
  Note: a rugby field can hold 17.5 sections of 400 sq/m. At the quoted price that’s $17 million for an average-sized paddock.
  
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  November 15, 2021 10:04am
  - All_on_Red
    
    You are forgetting how site coverage works and any allowances for JOALs
    
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    November 15, 2021 11:37am
- WaveyDavey
  
  Meh! Come back to me when it’s $2,650,000 for 244sqm (c.$4m for your 400sqm)
  
  https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/property/residential/sections-for-sale/auckland/auckland-city/saint-heliers/listing/3322500924
  
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  November 15, 2021 10:19am
- ISeeRed
  
  Nah, we’ll do it the National way: bring in immigrant families to slum it 5 to a room and do the jobs Kiwis apparently won’t do.
  
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  November 15, 2021 3:50pm
- Ra Henare
  
  The offset will be the 60% of land owners that will vote for status quo so their property prices dont drop.
  
  That has been the problem all along. Lab?Nat dont want to loose those votes
  
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  November 15, 2021 7:40pm
jon

Real Clear Politics have a ABC/Washington Post poll which the latter would struggle to accept. Biden 38% approval/57% disapprove and 2022 Generic Congressional vote 51% Republican and 41% Democrat.
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November 15, 2021 9:59am
- dcrane
  
  And the mid-term party approval numbers going into 2022 are historic (Dems low, GOP high).
  
  https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/economic-discontent-criticisms-biden-lift-gop-record-early/story?id=81095146
  
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  November 15, 2021 10:33am
ecco

Ardern’s freedom day will be another crock of sh*t. It will be a day where she announces Auckland hospo and travellers can wait another 8 possibly nine days to open/travel citing they need ‘time to prepare’. Her main go to trope.

Will be well into December and Air NZ, akl hospo, tourist towns, rental car cos will have all but gone bust from the stalling and procrastination from the student politicians with absolute power over NZ at the moment. Sadly.
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November 15, 2021 10:08am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Dithering Government of the clueless by the clueless. Sclerotic bureaucracy controls the nation by default.
  
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  November 15, 2021 10:31am
- Ehlana
  
  “Need to prepare” is one of the most pathetic statements I’ve heard in a while – and this government has been in office about 5 years now.
  
  It should have been the same as Waikato – from Wednesday, IIRC. Any business prepared would have opened. Any that needed more time would have opened later. Seriously, it is not the government’s problem if a business needs another day or two to be ready to open.
  
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  November 15, 2021 11:08am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    The only people that need to prepare are this useless government. Hospitality / hairdressers and business people have been prepared for months.
    
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    November 15, 2021 11:41am
- Fletch
  
  There is now talk about opening the borders to Auckland, but “ringfencing” towns that have lower vaccination rates so as not to let people in….
  The govt gives, the govt takes away…
  
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  November 15, 2021 11:30am
Truman lodge

I predict Auckland stays locked down over Xmas. Vaxinda will allow hospo and gyms to open but the border will remain.

I think They never had any intention of letting us out.
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November 15, 2021 10:23am
krazykiwi

From the MoH Website:

COVID-19: Elimination strategy for Aotearoa New Zealand

The Elimination Strategy, Aotearoa New Zealand’s sustained approach to keep it out, find it and stamp it out, is continually evolving to keep New Zealanders safe from COVID-19. This has become increasingly important as the country carefully engages more closely with the world.

We expect these people to run some [manufactured] health crisis .. when they’re can’t maintain a few web pages.
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November 15, 2021 10:24am
WaveyDavey

He just can’t f*cking shut up can he?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/11/auckland-s-covid-19-outbreak-could-soon-reach-peak-shaun-hendy-modelling.html

“…Shaun Hendy said case numbers were expected to get as high as 300 a day…”

And yet last week: “If we’d kept things at the moment, we expected to see case numbers level off at 200-300 a day. Now with these relaxations we’d expect things to go even higher and for those numbers to persist through the Christmas period.” Hendy anticipated more than 300 cases each day will inevitably be recorded, putting additional pressure on our health system.”

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/02-11-2021/live-updates-november-2-covid-modeller-pessimistic-over-loosening-of-level-three/

They’re just taking the piss out of us now
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November 15, 2021 10:33am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Well when you get a multi million dollar contract from the “single source of truth” you’re expected to chip in every now and then.
  
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  November 15, 2021 1:19pm
NoFax

Anyone heard anything about the vaccine passport. There seems to be two – one domestic “My Vaccine Pass” and the other for international travel. On the government’s website both passes are available from mid-November. I have not seen any minster discussing it nor any advertisements.

I note that the international one the details must match your passport so I assume the airlines and immigration will be checking this. For the domestic “My Vaccine Pass” it states that one can get a printed certificate with a QR which is scanned or save a copy to your phone.

There are of course a huge number of questions but it looks like the domestic “My Vaccine Pass” won’t confirm the identity of the presenter of the QR code – the international one will. If so, then basically “My Vaccine Pass” is worthless. Second, if is going to be available mid-November then how long do they think it will take to roll out? This has to get into the hands of 4 million+ (assuming no children).
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November 15, 2021 10:34am
- Ehlana
  
  NoFax, I checked my account for my NZ vaccine passport. The one the website says we’re getting mid-November.
  
  Nil, nada, nothing.
  
  Perhaps they meant next November?
  
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  November 15, 2021 1:34pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    One of those ‘lies by omission’ again
    
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    November 15, 2021 2:17pm
Maggie Pie

I think the whole thing has become personal.

Leo Molloy should never have said he was opening ‘Headquarters’ on the 1st of December no matter what.
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November 15, 2021 10:58am
I remember when

To get Wgtn Regional Hospital visitors and staff out of their cars, Capital and Coast DHB will spend $3.3m on sustainable transport options over next decade – including raising staff parking fees from $4-50 a day to $7-50, the first increase in 7 years, from next year.
The policy will be put in place at Wgtn RH first then extended to cover all their hospitals.
Recruitment shortages, vaccination, parking…..
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November 15, 2021 11:04am
- alloytoo
  
  I don’t see any options…..?
  
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  November 15, 2021 1:42pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  $7.50 a day? Never parked at North Shore Hospital have you?
  
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  November 15, 2021 2:18pm
Ehlana

http://www.hqviaduct.co.nz/ for those wanting a drink that day.
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November 15, 2021 11:10am
- Maggie Pie
  
  😀
  
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  November 15, 2021 11:15am
Flossie

I’m sure I’m sorry to hear Duncan Garner thinks he probably has covid.
Even sorrier that NZ Herald considers it to be headline news.
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November 15, 2021 11:40am
- oldfella
  
  Even sorrier to hear he’s caught it despite being double vaxxed. It’s a tricky wee virus that covid. /s
  
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  November 15, 2021 12:43pm
- lifesgood
  
  And he only “thinks” he’s got it. What tosh. Tell us when he has, or, no, don’t bother.
  
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  November 15, 2021 4:42pm
Benedict Yu

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/300454408/child-killed-in-triple-fatal-crash-on-rural-road-in-north-canterbury

I really enjoy driving on the quiet, straight back roads in Canterbury. But this is a timely reminder. As you approach a cross road with a stop sign, slow your speed from 100+ to 80, and watch for traffic. And if you see a vehicle, slow further to 70, watch them carefully, and assume they are not going to stop. That’s how I now do it. Better to be safe than dead.
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November 15, 2021 11:41am
RW Capitalist

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html

Oh dear, makes anything above -5% look like an outlier.
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November 15, 2021 12:01pm
Fletch

Ngāti Toa has condemned the use of its Ka Mate haka (which they say they own) being used to promote anti Covid-19 vaccination messages.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/126989223/keep-away-from-ka-mate-haka-ngti-toa-warns-antivaxers

Really? Can anyone actually copyright and own a dance? Gimme a break… ?
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November 15, 2021 12:36pm
- Ian Boag
  
  By all means take a break.
  
  Google “ka mate copyright” …. Ngati Toa own it.
  
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  November 15, 2021 12:46pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    It speaks volumes that there is no call to ban this haka, given the tendency to cancel historical figures and the nature of Te Rauparaha.
    
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    November 15, 2021 12:57pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    Not quite copyright …. something a bit different. Go figure. Sort of copyright-ish ….
    
    https://www.mbie.govt.nz/business-and-employment/business/intellectual-property/haka-ka-mate-attribution-act-guidelines/
    
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    November 15, 2021 3:01pm
- alloytoo
  
  What if some of the protestors own it too?
  
  It just takes one in the protest to grant permission.
  
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  November 15, 2021 1:44pm
- igm
  
  Ban the stupid haka from public events. It is an embarrassment.
  
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  November 15, 2021 3:18pm
All_on_Red

“Make the enemy live up to its own Rules”
Saul Alinsky- Rules for Radicals

What he means by this is, say, the Rules are you that you have to apply for something in writing then instead of a few people applying, have 30,000 apply.
In other words, use their own Rules to disrupt government and cause chaos.

For example, to show our displeasure about Border controls, how would it look if 40,000 people applied for a crossing pass- even if they wont qualify…
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November 15, 2021 12:45pm
graham

Seen on NZ Herald (Premium)

Ask the experts: Should I have an affair?

What the hell is wrong with some people? Not only is some moron apparently considering whether to cheat on their partner, they can’t even make up their own mind and decide to ask an ‘expert’.

Sounds like an utter loser.
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November 15, 2021 12:48pm
- Ehlana
  
  They used to say to young people that if you couldn’t talk to your partner about sex (contraception in particular) you shouldn’t be doing it.
  
  Could I suggest that if you can’t talk to your marriage partner about your desire to have an affair, you shouldn’t be having an affair either?
  
  Or you could just try asking yourself how you would feel if you found out your partner had an affair.
  
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  November 15, 2021 1:38pm
- Russ the Muss
  
  If you believe it is a real question and not an agony Aunt making up some to give themselves a job…
  
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  November 15, 2021 1:41pm
ClanMcleod

“Wow, people sure do seem to be looking for lots and lots of new reasons to explain heart attacks in mancubs!

I wonder why that is…?”

https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/kitten-corner-the-heart-of-the-matter
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November 15, 2021 1:09pm
Russ the Muss

A question on the Haka ownership. What does it mean when we say Toa owns it? Can they claim royalties from anyone who uses it if they wish and can they veto any person or group? If they say, vetoed the freedom protesters, is this legal. Ie the police could stop them or charge them?? Would a notice be served and money required? How does this work????
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November 15, 2021 1:39pm
- Ehlana
  
  I don’t think it would be a Police matter. I think it is like an a band owning their songs; they would have to sue whoever used it without consent.
  
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  November 15, 2021 2:01pm
  - Fletch
    
    But it’s not a band is it? It’s an ancient folk song. I doubt they even knew who wrote it or came up with it. I don’t see how something like that can be copyrighted.
    
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    November 15, 2021 2:37pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      According to tradition, Te Rauparaha wrote it. As a member of Ngati Toa, his iwi has inherited it.
      
      Although, you would think that copyright should expire 50 years after his death, so it should be well & truly be public commons by now.
      
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      November 15, 2021 7:22pm
- Paulus
  
  Don’t all Primary Schools do this Haka as part if their curriculum ?
  
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  November 15, 2021 2:07pm
CAKE FACE1

I think that Cindy got her Covid strategy from Dr Seuss and The Star Belly Sneeches…

″‘Good grief!’ yelled the ones that had stars at the first. ‘We’re still the best Sneetches and they are the worst. But, now, how in the world will we know,’ they all frowned, if which kind is what, or the other way round?‘”
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November 15, 2021 1:49pm
kevn

Heroic taxi driver in Liverpool… locks the bomb and bomber in his taxi, big bang and fire.
Driver only just escapes.
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November 15, 2021 2:11pm
- Ehlana
  
  Well done that man! Hope he recovers well and soon.
  
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  November 15, 2021 2:38pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    I hope he’s not prosecuted. You can just see it happening. Passenger was a nice boy, would never hurt a fly, victim of gangs of thugs, didn’t know he was carrying a bomb, got locked in car by far-right extremist taxi driver who detained and killed said passenger in what police have called a vicious, xenophobic attack.
    
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    November 15, 2021 4:55pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

2016.
I hear that Donald Trump plans to start making good on his pledge to Make America Great Again by offering free rides on his plane to all those who want to leave.
In other news Left wing protesters who say they’ll overthrow the Government now admit that giving up their guns was a big mistake because throwing dildos and bongs isn’t working
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November 15, 2021 2:25pm
CAKE FACE1

The double vaxxed can’t catch Covid misinformation spread by the media and government is unravelling fast.

Border workers were vaccinated 8 months ago. Their immunity from catching Rona has probably completely disappeared now.

Now Mr Garner has Covid.

According to the media, it’s like he won the lottery – it was one in a million chance this would happen!

We are being lied to, and these lies are being used to justify vax mandates.

Will the media come clean? Or will they continue the misinformation?

It is interesting…
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November 15, 2021 2:38pm
Libertarians are right

Project Veritas are a bit nutty but what is happening to them right now should be one of the biggest scandals in US political history.

Some time last year someone “found” Ashley Biden’s (Joe’s daughter) diary. They shopped it around and eventually Project Veritas got it. They tried and failed to confirm its legitimacy so offered it back to her which she obviously declined. They then handed it into the authorities and didn’t disclose any of the information from the diary.

Fast forward months and the FBI raid Project Veritas looking for copies etc. This is a massive overreach as there is zero reason for this to be federal and as a media organisation there are massive first amendment issues (including their right to have and report on the diary in the first place).

To make matters worse, New York Times have a story about the raid almost immediately, most likely meaning they knew in advance it was happening.

Even worse than that, The New York Times have since started writing articles about Project Veritas’ antics which could only have come from the “evidence” obtained by the FBI.

So we literally have the FBI, the Justice Department (someone had to sign off on the warrants), potentially the White House/DNC AND the New York Times all in an active conspiracy to take down Project Veritas.

It doesn’t matter if you think they are yahoos that skirt the law with their stings (legal determinations on the legality of stings being some of the information that’s been leaked to the NYT), they are still media and this conspiracy is very wrong.
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November 15, 2021 2:46pm
- All_on_Red
  
  The NYT is the favourite outlet for the FBI and the CIA to leak through.
  The Diary is real isn’t it.
  
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  November 15, 2021 4:08pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    And apparently details Joe’s habit of jumping naked into the shower with his daughter.
    
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    November 15, 2021 4:20pm
- dcrane
  
  They seem to get some newsworthy scoops, and some useful interviews with whistleblowers. My main problem with them is that they hype them some by chopping together audio/video into short segments, instead of more longform where you can get a better feel for context.
  
  If Trump’s administration had done this with an equivalent left-wing news outlet the MSM would have gone into full meltdown.
  
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  November 15, 2021 4:27pm
Chuck Bird

What do others think?

This post has taken me too long to get up the guts to write.
You see I’m a Professor in Public Health. One of the most important things in public health is “to do no harm”. Or at least in a more practical sense, have the good by far outweigh the harms you cause with whatever intervention you choose.
This is about vaccine mandates. It’s a complex and emotive issue.
The brutal truth is that there are no harm free choices here. All choices will have some harm.
But, deadlines are coming – here’s our Ministry of Health’s advice under public orders “Any health and disability workers (employed or voluntary, private and public) who fall under these roles must receive their first dose of the vaccine by 11.59pm 15 November 2021. They must receive their second dose by 1 January 2022.”
That’s Monday folks.
I’m not an “anti-vaxxer”. I’m fully vaccinated.
But some people will choose not to follow these orders for various reasons. Some of them may be logical based on the data that there is no protection beyond 200 days, and the data on reductions in transmission are limited, and they are concerned about adverse events.
We all make different decisions given similar data because we are all different and have different ways of weighing risks and benefits. They may see the futility of a public health system which would on current evidence have to boost every 120-150 days to maintain vaccine efficacy. Or maybe they just don’t like being told what to do, or have a more complex theory which may be spurious. Who really knows?
Anyway, the point is that there will always be a group who for whatever reason decides that, in this case, their bodily sovereignty, is sacred to them and they will refuse a public health order like this.
What this means is on Monday kids will turn up to school and their classroom teacher will no longer be there, that their mid-wife will no longer be working, that their doctor is no longer able to practice.
This will cause serious harm. It almost certainly will mean that our already overwhelmed health and education systems will not have the staff to carry out normal duties.
This debate has already caused substantial harm and division in our beautiful country.
I believe in the context of the recent Swedish data showing vaccine waning, that it’s now obvious to any thinking person the futility of these mandates.
We can predict that the exact thing we are trying to avoid “overwhelming the health system” is exactly what we are going to do by firing health workers.
What government puts on its own handcuffs on and throws away the key?
This isn’t us.
So sorry I can’t stand by silently and watch this. I have to say something.
I’m sorry it’s taken me so long to pluck up the courage.
Sorry if this upsets you, but come Monday I know of real teachers, real GPs, real mid-wives, real physios, real people without jobs. Real communities without their beloved teachers and health professionals who are here to care for them. These are my communities, my friends, my school.
These are mostly not lunatic fringe anti-vaxxers. They are people often making their own rationale decision. Yes its different than mine, but it is theirs.
I fear we are choosing more harm than good, and in my field that’s just not acceptable. In fact it’s unethical and immoral.
Please think about what your thoughts are on this matter. It is really an important one for our society right now. Saying nothing when you think there will be more harm than good is complicit in supporting that harm.
Please comment, share, or do whatever you think is right here. Please if you do comment think about what you say and please confront the issues not the person.
Thanks for reading this,
Grant Schofield PhD
Professor of Public Health
*disclaimer – these views are mine and don’t represent those of anyone else, including those who employ me.

[https://www.facebook.com/Prof.Grant 12/11/21 ]
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November 15, 2021 2:59pm
- tf78
  
  I appreciated his statement, I have printed it to keep, such a brave man to have done that. I wish him all the best for his future and hope many more strong, principled people will follow him.
  
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  November 15, 2021 3:59pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Thank God for someone with common sense.
  
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  November 15, 2021 4:19pm
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    And we are dismissively told they are all just “fringe lunatics” and the like? If everyone was on board, mandates wouldn’t be necessary to force anyone.
    
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    November 15, 2021 4:24pm
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  The ONLY reason that needs to be cited is the right to refuse forced treatment. Your body is your property, so it is a removal of the most fundamental property right to force vaccination.
  
  There must be serious disruption and chaos inflicted on society as a consequence of mandates. That is the only way they will be removed (and mandates will be rescinded if they result in enough chaos).
  
  Remember: you don’t have to hold out forever, because the social and economic chaos cannot be allowed to last indefinitely. It’s a game of chicken.
  
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  November 15, 2021 4:20pm
- mawm
  
  Thank you Grant. Maybe the solution is to start a parallel economy. Unvaxxed, want a Dr? Go to so-and-so. Need a haircut? So-and-so is doing them from home.
  
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  November 15, 2021 9:25pm
  - bronny1
    
    It already exists…. There are multiple groups online
    
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    November 15, 2021 9:46pm
kevn

@Chuck… All seems quite sensible. Good on you for airing your thoughts.
I have met a lot of folk just randomly, who are waiting for the option of Novavax. All have different reasons.
Novavax have applied to NZ Medsafe, so when?
Valneva (similar to Novavax) is a bit behind on marketing but are supplying the UK 100 million doses this year.
Emergency med (one size must fit all) Pfizer for the time, but now some options should be out there. AstraZeneca is just one.
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November 15, 2021 3:10pm
- kevn
  
  @Where are you Chuck? Was a great offering.
  
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  November 15, 2021 3:45pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    I live just out of Hamilton.
    
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    November 15, 2021 7:18pm
- alex Masterley
  
  Just been talking to a colleague about this. He is waiting for Novavax as he thinks, for good health reasons, he will have issues with Pfizer.
  
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  November 15, 2021 4:10pm
  - kevn
    
    @alex and Chuck… None of the folk I have talked to are anti-vax. They have all had their regular jabs over the years for measles, mumps, whooping cough, polio and tetanus etc.
    
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    November 15, 2021 4:14pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      Novavax still works on mRNA & the spike protein – it just gets there a different way.
      
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      November 15, 2021 7:44pm
- dcrane
  
  I finally looked up AZ. It’s a lot like Pfizer-Moderna in that it puts the gene for the spike protein into your body and makes your cells produce it, and in doing so elicits an immune response. (Therefore, also a gene therapy method.) The differences are that it uses a neutered (nonreproductive) virus (an adenovirus from chimps) to get the gene into the cells, and the gene goes in as DNA not RNA. That DNA gets taken to your cell nuclei where it is transcribed into mRNA, which is then translated as in Pfizer etc. It might be a bit less concerning than Pfizer since it doesn’t use those lipid nanoparticles. Still, I think I would prefer Novovax if indeed it is more conventional technology.
  
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  November 15, 2021 4:18pm
Maggie Pie

Just heard Lydia Ko being interviewed on ZB Sports.
Always sounds so cool, calm, and collected. Even when she loses.

She’d be a shit Doubles partner 🙁
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November 15, 2021 3:15pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  In any sport if you lose your shit, it works against you. 40 years ago I used to play in snooker tournaments – I know not to blow a gasket.
  
  6 3
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  November 15, 2021 3:37pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Now I am thinking McEnroe LOL!
    
    4 2
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    November 15, 2021 3:39pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    😀
    
    1 3
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    November 15, 2021 3:40pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The corrupt Labour Govt is self inflating. They will not like this, but I don’t care what they don’t like.
https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/taxpayer_talk_nicola_willis_ko?
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November 15, 2021 3:31pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Comes from Taxpayer’s Union on FB
  
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  November 15, 2021 3:32pm
Reid

I wonder if when we reach 90% vaxed like Ireland has, we’ll be getting 4,000 cases a day too, like Ireland has?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40741665.html
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November 15, 2021 3:37pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Why do you care?
  
  Their hospitalisations have fallen from the pre vaccine peak. And over the last 6 months 67 percent of folk in hospitals have been unvaccinated. As you would expect.
  
  https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/vaccinationstatusweeklyreports/Vaccination%20Status%20of%20ICU%20admissions.pdf
  
  Thee are currently 106 people in ICU, mostly unvaccinated.
  
  So yes we will get 4,000 a day. We will all get COVID. You me and Jacinda.
  
  So if you think these comments show that the vaccine is “not working” you are on the wrong track.
  
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  November 15, 2021 5:25pm
  - Reid
    
    Perhaps you haven’t been listening to the marketing Benedict. Strange. It’s been quite obvious.
    
    The vax is THE ticket and the ONLY ticket for us to get out of lockdown, according to the marketing.
    
    The pandemic is amongst the unvaccinated, says the marketing.
    
    The marketing is of course disproven daily by the facts, but marketers don’t care about that normally. And normally it doesn’t matter, if we’re talking about a car that doesn’t quite match the marketed mileage figures. I mean who cares about that.
    
    But it does matter when one is talking about something that goes to the heart of one’s health and one’s children’s health. That’s when it’s time to start paying attention to the mismatches between the marketing and the emerging on the ground proven reality.
    
    Especially and in particular when the mismatches aren’t marginal things that only affect one or two in a population of 5 million. These mismatches affect far, far more actual humans who are being, than just one or two.
    
    That’s why I care.
    
    I’m surprised you don’t share my concern.
    
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    November 15, 2021 5:58pm
- kowtow
  
  Reading between the lines it would appear that those are cases only being revealed because they are patients going to hospital , very likely for non covid related issues , and they didn’t know they had covid until they were tested , as a protocol at hospital . Again , a disease so deadly you must be tested in order to find out if you have it.
  
  talking of Ireland the linked story on Sinn Fein leading in the polls there is a much bigger story and a much bigger worry.
  
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  November 15, 2021 5:39pm
Biscuit

Me, too, Maggie…

I detest the modern custom – American-origined, of course – where teammates in Beach Volleyball, Tennis Doubles, Cricket (if you’re batting) etc can’t go a single point/run/whatever without an inane pause to fist-bump each other.

De-friggin’-SIST!

We even get that in the teams of four that comprise the Quiz teams in a Quiz I run, good bloody grief, although I must confess that that IS an improvement on what one team used to do if they chanced to get a question right: all, like, jumping to their feet and doing a lap of their table in celebration…
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November 15, 2021 3:37pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Happening in NZ schools. Do something.
https://rumble.com/vnhetp-mom-gets-standing-ovation-calling-for-exodus-from-public-schools.html?
7 2
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November 15, 2021 3:45pm
Inandout

Jordan spells out what is happening in Canada, and what we are going through as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fhlSw72Z5M&t=24s
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November 15, 2021 3:49pm
RW Capitalist

Received an EMail from Massey University.
Below is part of it… compulsory vax coming?
At the conclusion of the consultation period the university will therefore be considering
whether:
 To make COVID-19 vaccination a requirement for students, staff, contractors and
visitors who access our campuses and sites from 14 February 2022.
We invite you to consider how your organisation can continue to support Massey in fulfilling
its obligations as a PCBU, particularly in the COVID context and in the event that the University
adopts a position where all people on campus must be fully vaccinated.
I look forward to your support and continued relationship.
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November 15, 2021 3:59pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Hmm, what’s the chance of them deciding anything but …
  
  Consultation, my arse!
  
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  November 15, 2021 7:32pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING…..

How many of these guys would be Staff on their lunchbreak from RJH’s Lambton Quay Office ?

https://twitter.com/NZStuff/status/1460067688282161153
3 5
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November 15, 2021 4:02pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Staff of the NZ Taxpayer
  
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  November 15, 2021 4:15pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

This POS is a professor??? Saw my dick off. FITH.
https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/non-binary-assistant-college-professor-defends-pedophiles-calls-them-minor-attracted-persons/?
8 1
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November 15, 2021 4:06pm
- cmm
  
  Sure, fine, call them minor attracted persons. The attraction isn’t really the problem.
  
  It is one thing to feel the attraction. It is quite another to act on it.
  
  If I see a particularly “healthy” looking female walking on the path there is no problem feeling a stirring so long as I moderate my behaviour towards her. It’s quite another if I grab her by the (inaudible) or spray her with sperm.
  
  Does the non-binary prof also condone rape I wonder?
  
  Perhaps (s)he should move to the South Africa and would feel at home in a country where over 50% of women have been raped (the real kind, not just wolf whistles and a drunken boob grab) and last year almost 700 girls under 10 gave birth.
  
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  November 15, 2021 5:20pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Shades of the Man-Boy Love Society!
  
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  November 15, 2021 7:38pm
Truman lodge

Border shut over Xmas is the vibe Vaxinda is giving. Keep getting told get vaccinated to end lockdowns. But that’s not what’s happening is it.
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November 15, 2021 4:14pm
Fletch

From the press conference on now –

Boosters will be available by the end of November.

It’s not to say the vaccine [will] become ineffective after six months, but boosters keep the vaccine at the top of its game, Ardern said.

Hipkins said people did not need to rush to get their booster, as “science shows fully vaccinated people remain really well protected from infection, and from being seriously ill if they do get Covid”.

“Science” Yeh right… ?
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November 15, 2021 4:23pm
Reid

This is great!!!!!!!!!!!!!

David Fisher from the Herald attempts to make headway in a phone interview for the Herald’s hit piece on the guy who asked Jacinda those questions in Northland last week.

https://rumble.com/vp7660-csm-vs.-msm.html
6 1
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November 15, 2021 4:54pm
- Bridgenag
  
  Good on him! Won’t be squashed.
  
  4 1
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  November 15, 2021 7:34pm
Maggie Pie

There’ll be thousands of families around the country breathing a huge sigh of relief today.

My partner went back to work this morning.
5 4
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November 15, 2021 4:55pm
Chuck Bird

I hear Colmar Brunton results will be on the news tonight.
9 2
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November 15, 2021 5:07pm
cmm

Yet more lies drawing parallels between CV19 and polio.

The polio vaccine is a huge game changer. It made polio practically extinct.

It is a HUGE LIE to draw parallels between polio and CV19.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/126983109/new-hub-designed-to-help-polio-survivors-opens
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November 15, 2021 5:12pm
- krazykiwi
  
  What we currently have is a therapy which is not sterilizing, and its protections against infection and harm attenuate faster than any vaccine in history.
  
  Calling these things a ‘vaccine’ is besmirching the very good safety and efficacy of the vaccines which we’ve come to trust. It will be eroding that trust, which is a very bad thing.
  
  No, these shots are not vaccines. They are treatments in advance. And people who compare them favourably with well-tested, steralising, durable vaccines are dangerous idiots.
  
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  November 15, 2021 5:30pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Whatever. Every unvaccinated commentator here will get COVID. It is as simple as that. They will have an awful time of it if they are older than 40. And some will become seriously ill.
    
    There is no rational reason to not be vaccinated. And sadly Kiwiblog has become a magnet for the irrational.
    
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    November 15, 2021 5:54pm
    - Mrs_Right
      
      Everyone will get it eventually. Some will get it in two months some in two years. I can’t imagine many people agreeing to endless boosters.
      
      11 1
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      November 15, 2021 5:59pm
    - ross.mc
      
      Gotta disagree with this statement BY “There is no rational reason to not be vaccinated.” I don’t think it is rational for the young to get vaccinated as the vaccines are still not proven to be safe in the medium to long term.
      For those who don’t plan to breed in the future, or those with health problems or are overweight, then get vaccinated, but keep the kids out of it.
      
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      November 15, 2021 6:22pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        I have taken a rational decision not to get “vaccinated ” with the experimental gene therapy jab. Even the inventor, Robert Malone has serious issues about the way the so called ‘vaccine’ is being pushed & promoted.
        Nup. Not for this Kiwi.
        
        11 1
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        November 15, 2021 7:52pm
    - info@cruzpro.com
      
      Balonie! Not everyone will have an awful time of it. A number will not even know that they are infected and more will only have minimal symptoms.
      
      I will willingly accept a real vaccine. Not the stuff that required a re-definition of the word “vaccine”.
      
      What has happened to your normally reasoned posts? Hopefully you haven’t been targeted by the watchdogs or bribed.
      
      9 1
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      November 15, 2021 6:54pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Bearing in mind that some are not anti vaccers but simply waiting for a better vax option
      
      7 0
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      November 15, 2021 7:40pm
    - freemark
      
      Do you think a rational reason is wanting to preserve your built immune system, and gain added natural immunity to Covid? Cos that’s my plan. I may get sick from the virus, however I am taking & will take further supplements showing good effect. Why do I want to sign up for an annual “booster” shot? I second that I thought with a bit of research you had come around to a bit of common sense about the whole thing.
      
      6 1
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      November 15, 2021 8:22pm
  - Fletch
    
    Even Dr Robert Malone, one of the inventors of mRNA medicine called these shots “gene therapy”. And he should know.
    
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    November 15, 2021 8:24pm
Truman lodge

Jacinda looked tense and nervous today.

1. Possibly sick with cold or temperature

2. Lack of debrief and planning

3. Decision generally not made or agreed

4. Deceptive and misleading comments.

Answer is 4

We are being run around in circles. I advise Aucklanders to plan and think of a way out over Xmas.
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November 15, 2021 5:19pm
- DeepBlue
  
  5. Exhausted after hosting APEC in late night early morning sessions over the weekend.
  
  I don’t trust her, but she has had a busy fortnight and is not feeling the love. It is showing.
  
  6 1
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  November 15, 2021 6:49pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I doubt that we will be seeing much of her this side of Xmas.
  
  9 1
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  November 15, 2021 6:54pm
Benedict Yu

Yay boosters.

Honestly I am pleasantly surprised. I thought they would mess about. But opening up boosters to everyone after 6 months is totally the right call.

So a rare thing from me. Well done Jacinda. My booster day is already in my Outlook calendar. 🙂
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November 15, 2021 5:26pm
- Inandout
  
  BY, you jest, or are you totally besotted? This booster lark appears to be money from heaven for Pfizer.
  
  11 2
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  November 15, 2021 5:58pm
- Paul Marsden
  
  You won’t be saying that if you end up with a scared heart and/or, other complications. Good luck to you.
  
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  November 15, 2021 6:34pm
- DeepBlue
  
  She has made it for everyone, unlike other countries, to avoid annoying Maori and being held to account by iwi. If they rock up they will get it. If they don’t, it’ll be on them.
  
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  November 15, 2021 6:52pm
Stu2

I was puzzled today by one mention of the rest of NZ going traffic light sooner than all DHBs at 90% double dose – in response to a journo the PM said when close to 90%

My best guess on the state of play on the 29th is :
– three DHBs at 90% double dose (Auckland, Waitemata and Capital Coast)
– four under 80% (Northland, Tairawhiti, Whanganui, West Coast)
– several only just above 80% (Lakes, BoP)

Doesn’t hang together
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November 15, 2021 5:47pm
Maggie Pie

Listening to those guys being interviewed about their win on The Block.
Good on them!
Honestly, the way some people are talking, you’d think they won $40 mill on LOTTO or something.

Worked their guts out for over a year and only got a crappy 300k each.

SHEESH
9 8
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November 15, 2021 5:57pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  That makes you look like an entitled clown.
  
  7 4
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  November 15, 2021 7:24pm
  - Hard Cheese
    
    True – but it’s all part of the act, pay no mind.
    
    4 1
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    November 15, 2021 7:52pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Tonight TV One News Poll shows Labour and Jacinda Ardern dropping in popularity… but 8.5 minutes of the 9 minute analysis was devoted to dissing National and casting aspersions upon ACT.

No analysis as to why Labour and Ardern continue to drop.
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November 15, 2021 6:13pm
- kowtow
  
  They also didn’t say labour are stuffing up , they said she’s had a tough couple of weeks , and randomly later in the propaganda piece there was an item on how many people had died from covid world wide , with NZ figures being so good that it was proof of the right decision to go “hard and early” .
  
  Just a little reminder of how very well she’s actually done……in case anyone missed it.
  
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  November 15, 2021 6:58pm
- Warren
  
  Jessica Mutch has her head so far up Our Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s arse that it’s obvious that she couldn’t see that her bestie is on a downward slide so preferred to contiue her and Tova’s which hunt on Judith Collins instead of critizing Jacinda, see them evil eye when she starts stressing a point.
  
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  November 15, 2021 7:08pm
- Russ the Muss
  
  And that my dear Maggie is why I never watch GovtNews nor the Tova show. Which guts me as it means my only means of news are echo chambers, so thats not ideal. But sadly there is no longer a medium which is roughly neutral. Probably the most centric is Joe Rogan. Good God the west is screwed when the best commentary is a tattooed, , American stand up comic, mixed martial expert and self confessed psychedelic drug user… but he’s sincere, smart and has great guests.
  
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  November 15, 2021 7:11pm
info@cruzpro.com

I give your average Kiwi a lot more credit than some. The fact that the polls are continuing to show Labour/Greens /Ardern dropping in the polls is proof that Kiwis are not stupid.
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November 15, 2021 6:36pm
- MCos
  
  They may be dropping, but they’re still way ahead of whatever’s next.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:41pm
fernglas

Vaccine boosters for everyone over 18? Does this mean that after the end of this month, anyone who has not had two doses plus a booster 6 months after the second will be considered not to be fully vaccinated, and will not be allowed to travel to New Zealand or participate fully in life within the country? That’s what they’re doing in France, but the boosters are so far limited to over 65’s, not extended to the entire adult population. What was the National opposition response via Chris Bishop? That it’s taken too long to happen. Not a squeak about what it may mean in terms of enabling this Government’s agenda of social control.
By the time the borders re-open, most of those who wish to return to or visit NZ will not have had a booster as they will not be available where they are currently living. Indeed, WHO is advising against boosters. If they are deemed not to be fully vaxxed, they will not be allowed in.
Will this be used as yet another good excuse to keep citizens out and to manipulate those who have the misfortune to be in the country? And why is National not demanding answers instead of just saying it should have happened earlier?
The drop in Labour’s popularity is at least in part because people are sick of being told what to do. How National thinks it will get anywhere by failing to criticise policies which enable that is beyond me. I can only write it off to either political cowardice or a lack of foresight. Neither speaks well of a supposed Opposition.
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November 15, 2021 7:05pm
- DeepBlue
  
  You missed the elevator pitch: two are still good, but three are better.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:12pm
Benedict Yu

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126996173/covid19-nearly-60-per-cent-of-mondays-cases-mori-ministry-of-health-says

Honestly the stupid. Time to cut them loose. After all the money spent, they are still too stupid to get vaccinated. What a scandal.
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November 15, 2021 7:08pm
- rangitoto
  
  It’s more because they ignore social distancing and gathering rules than anything to do with vaccination.
  
  7 2
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  November 15, 2021 7:25pm
  - MCos
    
    How do you know?
    Perhaps they pay too much attention to the wrong people.
    
    3 4
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    November 15, 2021 8:35pm
- ross.mc
  
  Or perhaps too sensible to get vaccinated. Only time will tell.
  
  11 1
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  November 15, 2021 7:50pm
  - dcrane
    
    Indeed, there are many concerning signs.
    
    2 0
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    November 15, 2021 10:34pm
- Russ the Muss
  
  What does cut them loose mean mate?
  I must admit, plenty of people have talked about overreach from our govt, but it must be said that the bedwetters and panic pants wanting to destroy others who have made what they think is a bad choice seems far more erroneous than a govt which is merely giving the people what they want.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:15pm
- ByGolly
  
  You sound triggered. Why would they bother you so much?
  
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  November 15, 2021 11:00pm
fernglas

“An unknown number of school teachers, early childcare and other education staff have been farewelled today as the vaccination mandate kicks in.”
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-teaching-staff-farewelled-ahead-of-vaccine-mandate-deadline/YC4OF33BVJ7XDRELYH6EE67MLQ/
Why doesn’t the Ministry have the numbers? They’ve had months to work out who won’t be turning up and what help is needed. More incompetence.
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November 15, 2021 7:24pm
- MCos
  
  No they haven’t
  Some people are all piss & wind until reality hits them.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:30pm
- Paul Marsden
  
  What did you expect?? It’s the education system in all its glory.
  
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  November 15, 2021 8:33pm
Maggie Pie

Took the dog for a walk around the block after dinner.
This guy in Upland Rd called out to me….
“Hope you’re going to pick the crap up!”
I just pulled up my pants and ran.
9 4
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November 15, 2021 8:19pm
- Paul Marsden
  
  I suggest you don’t come down St Vincents Ave then. I have a little surprise for you.
  
  5 0
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  November 15, 2021 8:31pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Not plastic water-bottles laying on the berm is it?
    They don’t work 😀
    
    4 2
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    November 15, 2021 8:54pm
    - Paul Marsden
      
      Nah. Something a tad more dynamic
      
      5 0
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      November 15, 2021 9:31pm
Fletch

ALL the patients in ICU at the University hospital in Gent, Belgium are vaccinated. (35 second clip).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vUJKgtinvg
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November 15, 2021 9:04pm
Cinematic

Watching Clarkson’s Farm. A good watch. Current episode start of lockdown in UK. Already looks like utter madness. We’re a year behind at least. Our government’s footnote in history won’t be kind.
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November 15, 2021 9:07pm

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Health Target 5 – elective treatments
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Dan Moskovitz

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