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October 29, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 29 October 2021

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Benedict Yu

So these clowns say that the All Blacks should refuse sponsorship by a major oil and plastics producer.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/126812817/oil-deal-tarnishes-the-all-blacks-brand-say-explayers-musician-neil-finn-and-others

https://petition.act.greenpeace.org.nz/all-blacks-ineos-sponsor?source=actioncallout

I scanned a bunch of energy demand forecasts this morning. All of them project the world consuming more oil in 2030 than today.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/woodmackenzie/2021/07/15/is-the-world-sleepwalking-into-an-oil-supply-crunch/

The demand for petroleum for road transport will slowly decline. But the use of oil as a feedstock for chemicals and plastics will boom. And the demand for aviation fuel will really boom. Driven mostly by Asia.

Petroleum will remain vital to modern societies for at least the next two decades.

I wonder if Neil Finn understands that no natural gas equals no nitrogenous fertiliser which equals a few billion starving people.

So congratulations to the All Blacks.
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October 29, 2021 8:00am
- Humble Capitalist
  
  As much as I love Neil Finn, how did he manage to tour NZ earlier this year without the use of fossil fuels?
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:10am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    The same way his guitar, guitar case and pick wouldn’t exist without fossil fuels.
    
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    October 29, 2021 9:18pm
- PhilBest
  
  A brilliant author on the subject of energy-source evolution is Jesse Ausubel. He points out that the trend has always been to less carbon-intensive energy anyway because the carbon intensivity relates to the “mass” of the fuel. Imagine how much volume of wood logs or pellets you would have to cart around in a train tender to provide energy, compared to the volume of coal, then compared to the volume of diesel in a tank.
  
  Even if you are not powering something “mobile”, the mass of the energy source determines its own logistical supply costs. Mass efficient burning at electricity generation plants, with the energy supplied down wires, solved a lot of problems and was a major step change in efficiency. Not only was the energy generation able to be made maximum efficiency due to high-temperature furnaces, etc but the cost and energy involved in delivering wood or coal or oil to millions of homes and businesses could be foregone.
  
  Hydrogen is the ultimate low-mass, clean-burning energy source and its deployment is inevitable. Ausubel describes some potential ways in which it could happen. He also describes the potential for nuclear, which is way beyond where the public conversation is; there is actually an amazing potential overlap between nuclear and hydrogen, as nuclear could be the source of surplus energy at off-peak times, for hydrogen electrolysis.
  
  He is simply one of the brightest minds on the planet, and it is a travesty that loons like Paul Ehrlich become celebrities and those with the positive, non-misanthropic solutions languish in obscurity.
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:11am
  - JJ56
    
    This whole comment is curious. To start with some definitions. Energy density is energy per unit volume, and specific energy is energy per unit mass. They are separately desired for different reasons.
    
    The energy supply chain typically begins with a raw energy source (fossil fuels, wind, sun, hydro, geothermal, biomass) that we convert into fuels (sometimes called energy carriers). This costs money and energy, so there are trade offs between more processing and cost and energy density etc.
    
    There is nothing intrinsically attractive about any particular form.
    
    Turning to hydrogen it does have very good specific energy, but has lousy energy density at room temperature. If you are constrained for space it wouldn’t be top of your list.
    
    It also doesn’t occur in nature and is expensive to make. The lowest cost comes from fossil fuels, and Oz is using coal to make it to send to Japan, stick the GHGs into the ground.
    
    If you want to make it from using electricity to split water it’s very expensive. Just using a battery to store the electricity is much cheaper in lots of circumstances, and converting trees into biodiesel is about the same cost.
    
    So nothing inevitable about hydrogen, and carbon intensity counts for some things, but not what you suggest.
    
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    October 29, 2021 7:32pm
- Spam
  
  Exactly.
  Here is the world energy mix.
  https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/08/Global-energy-vs.-electricity-breakdown-768×406.png
  
  The useful idiots would have you believe that Big Oil is evil and stopping a transition to utopian renewable energy. People don’t seem to understand that nearly 85% of world energy is fossil fuel. You simply can’t turn that off in a few years (well, not without millions starving, freezing to death and/or living in terrible conditions).
  
  We need a grown-up conversation about this, but there aren’t many grown-ups willing to put their heads above the parapet in today’s cancel-culture world.
  
  And useful idiots like James Shaw is happy to cull our farming industry. For what?
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:12am
  - pdm
    
    `And useful idiots like James Shaw is happy to cull our farming industry. For what?’
    
    So that people world wide can die of starvation because we are a major producer of quality essential foodstuffs.
    
    Shaw who mostly shines as the sanest of the Green Party often lets himself down with statements about culling the NZ cow herd and his fixation on Climate Change which at the end of the day is only Nature doing what it has always done.
    
    Would not have got that published on Stuff.
    
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    October 29, 2021 8:22am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “And useful idiots like James Shaw is happy to cull our farming industry. For what?”
    
    So other countries can laugh at us.
    
    Last year I was dealing with a guy on climate change issues. I explained that if New Zealand reduced its milk exports by 50 percent, other global producers would simply fill the gap. He actually said ” No they wouldn’t do that because those governments care about climate change too”. ?
    
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    October 29, 2021 8:28am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Talking of useful idiots.
      
      Mike Graham in London with his Plank of the Week Award, Her Worshipfullness gets a mention . . .
      A good listen, the relevant points being 16.18 where Laura Dodsworth introduces the Her Worshipfullness, 19.45 where Mike Graham says ‘I really like Aotearoa’, no just kidding, nobody outside fartbubble New Zealand says Aotearoa, he said New Zealand. ‘I really like New Zealand and always wanted to go but now maybe not’
      
      So, the lockdown will save us all mentality with the follow up of gross incompetence by the government has killed tourism in the last two years and for the long term as well it would appear.
      
      20.55 Ardern is ‘holding everyone hostage’
      
      Anyhew, the award is finally awarded at 47.25, drum roll please and, I will let you listen to the final panel choice, there are no prizes.
      
      https://play.acast.com/s/independentrepublicmikegraham/plankoftheweek-russelquirkandlauradodsworth
      
      As an aside, the language, the structure of discussion, the syntax, absence of colloquialisms, clear erudite speech knocks the living shit out of our local efforts including Red radio, a bit of a pleasure to an anglophile.
      
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      October 29, 2021 9:12am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        90 minutes mods; is there a problem with this post?
        
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        October 29, 2021 10:36am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Yes but it’s on a YouTube channel with only 122 subscribers so I don’t think it will have The Princess exactly quaking in her boots.
        
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        October 29, 2021 9:21pm
    - Ehlana
      
      Thanks for the laugh Benedict.
      
      I seriously wonder how many countries these activists think the world has. Perhaps we should put them all on bicycles somewhere on the Eurasian continent and let them spread the word themselves…
      
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      October 29, 2021 9:28am
    - Jack5
      
      … if New Zealand reduced its milk exports by 50 percent, other global producers would simply fill the gap.
      
      Yep, NZ, while perhaps the biggest exporter of milk products, it is only the eighth biggest milk producer in the world.
      
      It’s behind France, Russia, Germany, Brazil, China, India and the United States.
      
      https://www.mixerdirect.com/blogs/mixer-direct-blog/the-top-10-dairy-producing-countries-in-the-world
      
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      October 29, 2021 10:55am
      - Hard Cheese
        
        Interestingly both France and Germany manage to produce larger volumes of dairy products with fewer cows than NZ. Isn’t it always claimed we have a highly efficient dairy industry?
        
        NZ 18.9 billion KG, 5 million cows
        France 23.7 billion KG, 3.6 million cows
        Germany 31.3 billion KG, 4.2 million cows
        
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        October 29, 2021 1:52pm
      - JohnRidd
        
        It is important to understand dairy farming is heavily subsidised in other countries. Production is much higher per cow in other countries because they feed large amounts of grain made inexpensive by subsidies.
        NZ dairy is low cost because cows are mostly pasture fed.
        
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        October 29, 2021 4:33pm
      - andydownhere
        
        Replying to Hard Cheese… Other countries produce more per cow than NZ, because they are fed ration of feed with only a small part of grass in. The rest is tractor made crops, expensive to make, and high in carbon use. Some of those countries have quotas on number of cows they can milk, so they just produce as much as they can per cow, not necessarily as efficiently. NZ cows are mostly grass fed, which is the cheapest form of feed. NZ just has the perfect climate to grow grass. Other countries get too cold or too hot. Some high ration fed cows in NZ produce 600kgs milksolids per cow, others 300kgs on just grass. But the 300kgs on grass are probably the most efficient
        
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        October 29, 2021 7:26pm
  - Taieri
    
    And useful idiots like James Shaw
    ——————
    
    What makes you think that they are useful?
    
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    October 29, 2021 8:58am
- Master Mariner
  
  BY I honestly think it will be petrol “Tuesdays” in the not to distant future.
  
  Because of 2 reasons.
  
  1 There will be a big shortage in NZ.
  2 The price will be too high.
  
  A slow motion Train wreck in motion.
  
  Be interesting watching Bitumen products to be imported here which was ( I believe) produced locally as one simple metric.
  Worldwide indicator is Rig Count World wide on future prices. There has been a huge under investment in Hydrocarbons in last 10 years.
  
  Russia is looking very good as they don’t buy in to Climate alarmism and hold all the aces in regards to European Fuel security.
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:23am
  - Nickc2
    
    Yes, there’s not much produced these days that doesn’t have a Petroleum element in it’s manufacture, distribution, use or destruction. Even medicines contain Petroleum elements I’m informed.
    What’s going to replace Petroleum?
    I currently have a diesel vehicle and will be replacing it soon with another diesel vehicle.
    The current Govt won’t be around long enough to dictate when Petroleum powered vehicles can no longer be used in NZ.
    
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    October 29, 2021 12:27pm
- CJames
  
  What is more to the point is has Mr Finn and the like personally boycotted the use of any fossil fuel product? If not, why not? Otherwise, one could rightly look at his lifestyle and aircraft flights to conclude he was just a virtue signalling hypocrite.
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:24am
  - kowtow
    
    The other irony/ hypocrisy ; at this very moment world “leaders” of all hues and descriptions are boarding private / military / personal jets to take them to two big talk fests in Rome and Glasgow .
    
    Commercial airlines are for the Plebs .
    
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    October 29, 2021 8:38am
  - MarkF
    
    One could ask how many tonnes of plastic (records, cassettes and CDs) has Mr Finn, personally, been responsible for?
    
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    October 29, 2021 8:42am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      It is worse.
      
      Neil Finn has a gigantic home in LA.
      
      https://www.oneroof.co.nz/news/crowded-house-singer-neil-finn-splashes-7m-on-new-la-home-37811
      
      That, plus his intensive air travel, will give him a carbon footprint hundreds of times greater than you or me.
      
      You just could not make this up. 🙂
      
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      October 29, 2021 8:54am
      - All_on_Red
        
        He was lucky landing the Fleetwood Mac gig.
        Big paydays from those Tours
        He’s not as good as Lindsay Buckingham though.
        
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        October 29, 2021 9:27am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Not as talented either imo
        
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        October 29, 2021 9:54am
      - Geoffs
        
        Yeah but Neil is going to sell all this up and go live in a tent on the Ethiopian plains!!
        
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        October 29, 2021 10:59am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Will he keep the $7 mil batch in LA?
        
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        October 29, 2021 1:00pm
  - Flossie
    
    Why do we need to hear what every celebrity thinks on every subject. Mr Finn is a fantastic musician but his opinion on fossil fuels is no more correct or important than yours or mine.
    
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    October 29, 2021 8:49am
- surfing
  
  In protest against the protest, I will rev my engine needlessly a little more today. It’s a 4 litre monster too….
  
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  October 29, 2021 10:54am
- doggone7
  
  Some time back I checked what INEOS produced.
  They are involved in a lot.
  
  That means when the protests happen against them there are going to be a lot of people having to spurn using many products to back up their words and be true to scorning the company.
  
  https://www.ineos.com/industry/products/
  
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  October 29, 2021 3:43pm
Yvette

3 Waters
Mahuta compared the reforms to carpooling.

No, a television interviewer first, unfortunately, used the carpool analogy and Manuta has picked up on it –

“To ensure that you’re getting the most efficient use out of the car, everyone living in your neighbourhood can share the car to get the best use, best cost efficiencies and things like that.”
Mahuta insisted the reforms were necessary, despite the Opposition National and ACT parties promising to scrap them if elected in 2023.

Of course when the pool car runs out of fuel, everyone in it is up the creek without a bloody paddle. (like – Proposal for Auckland Light Rail more than 10 times original cost, well-behind timeframes – which could place the water reforms, currently $185 billion at $ 1.85 trillion– think about it, but not too much – it hurts)
And also of course when the pool car doesn’t deliver (signature of this Ardern Government) you to the right destination, or crashes, you are equally fucked – well, no, actually in the latter case: probably more so.
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October 29, 2021 8:00am
- alloytoo
  
  And as anybody who has actually carpooled knows, after six months you want to slit your wrists
  
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  October 29, 2021 1:03pm
  - Paulus
    
    Remember if you pay in a car pool the driver’s insurance can be invalidated as no longer a Private car but a Commercial one.
    Don’t have a claim to find out because you might get a shock.
    
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    October 29, 2021 1:54pm
igm

What else would you expect from Laidlaw and Burgess?
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October 29, 2021 8:04am
Warren

Didn’t promises like this also turn to failure in housing and look at the problem today very few can afford the luxury because of this Governments policy.
Proposals for Auckland light rail more than ten times of original cost, and well behind timeframes.
A Government working group has presented a new proposal for Auckland light rail at more than 10 times of the original cost and well behind initial time frames.
The Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern promised to build light rail from downtown Auckland to the Airport with in a decade ahead of the 2017 General Election.
The Public must be suckers for punishment after the exact same results from Labours housing policy 100,000 in ten yearswas also promised before the 2017 General Election only to be the greatest housing failure in New Zealand history and still the voter thinks our Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is wonder woman.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/10/proposal-for-auckland-light-rail-more-than-10-times-original-cost-well-behind-timeframes.html
Surely the population of New Zealand will sooner or later wake up to all these lies and false promises and realize that we need certainty because it means more taxes to keep paying for this stupidity.
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October 29, 2021 8:05am
TripeWryter

I was going to comment on this, too. The sanctimonious, the self-righteous, the holier-than-thou seeking to lay down the lives of other people.
In their pompous sermon they do not mention where else the NZRFU could have gone for the money it needed.
Did Sophie Handford, for example, have a few million in her purse? Dame Anne Salmond?
Chris Laidlaw and Robert Burgess – any millions in their back pockets?
Neil Finn might.
But the media coverage – as ever – will be reverential.
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October 29, 2021 8:06am
Benedict Yu

A day in the life of Kàinga Ora, formerly Housing New Zealand.

A guy is given a nice one bedroom unit. Next thing the Mongrel Mob shows up. Tells the guy that they need the home. Guy does a runner because he is scared.

Kàinga Ora finds out. Gets police to evict the gangsters. They secure the property and change the locks.

This morning the unit has been trashed with sledge hammers.

This is why building mixed developments never works. I support people who fight state houses being built next door. This is what you get.
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October 29, 2021 8:06am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  When will this appear in the MSM?
  Oh sorry, I forgot.
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:18am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    It won’t. I have an inside contact. Let’s just say I was listening to the phone call from the police at 0700 this morning.
    
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    October 29, 2021 8:21am
    - slightlyrighty
      
      So let me get this straight…the Mongrel Mob stole a house?
      
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      October 29, 2021 11:12am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        My information is that the lawful tenant was keeping bad company. He may have been buying drugs from the Mongrel Mob. For whatever reason, the gangsters decided that they needed the house. To live in or operate from. Lawful tenant feared for his life and fled the scene. Then when it was time for regular property inspection, the tenancy manager said “Who are you?” which culminated in the gangsters being removed, followed by gangsters smashing the house. AFAIK the original tenant is still missing.
        
        I hope that explains 🙂
        
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        October 29, 2021 1:39pm
- PhilBest
  
  I say that there is a hidden problem that is growing – you put your finger on it here: “…Guy does a runner because he is scared…”
  
  I say that there is a growing phenomenon of unreported crime because people are too intimidated by the thugs that our system is not putting away quickly enough for long enough.
  
  “…Kainga Ora finds out…” – and by gum, if the Mob ever finds out who “told on them” – how Kainga Ora found out – I wouldn’t like to be in that person’s shoes. I wouldn’t like to be one of the neighbours in that housing project, either – the Mob will be assuming that at least one of them did the dobbing in.
  
  It is a travesty that innocent people end up with their lives turned into one of constant fear and intimidation just because they happen to be unlucky and their daily life or location crosses the path of these thugs. I had a few days in a 4 bedroom hospital room with one of them and that alone was enough to scare me with the possibility that he and his mates would come looking for me one day because he didn’t like something I said to one of my visitors, or because my trips to the toilet irritated him, or something like that. Imagine living next door to these sadistic tatooed intimidators.
  
  Limp judges should be made to live under those conditions – including their own loved ones. Then we might see some realism coming into sentencing. The first reason government exists at all is to protect its citizens from criminal harm. I’d say we are falling down dismally on ensuring “freedom from fear” especially on the bottom rungs of society where people are obliged because of their location and sometimes their livelihoods, to co-exist with these animals.
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:23am
- Benedict Yu
  
  The other thing with Kàinga Ora is that all the tenants call it Housing New Zealand. Apparantly if you talk to them about Kianga Ora you just get blank stares.
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:23am
  - alloytoo
    
    On the face of it rebranding government services with Maori names is a racist attempt to exclude non-Maori speakers from accessing government services.
    
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    October 29, 2021 8:39am
    - Paulus
      
      Still waiting for 3 Water Legislation to get a Maori name and who is to lead it – from Tainui I would expect.
      
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      October 29, 2021 1:57pm
      - zulumonster
        
        Surely the name will be Toruwai …
        
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        October 29, 2021 4:26pm
  - kowtow
    
    The other day on a radio “news” item some character was referred post sentencing to some gooble de gook named agency ,I had no idea what it was , and nor could any other listener .
    
    Wot’s the point.
    
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    October 29, 2021 8:40am
  - graham
    
    When our daughter was buying her first home last year we Googled up “first home buyer grant”, and got pointed to a website called kaingaora.govt.nz. Nowhere on the website did it mention Housing New Zealand. My initial thought was “this is some sort of scam website”. It took a bit of research to reassure myself this was a genuine website.
    
    It’s all part of the ongoing push by the Government, by their departments and agencies, and by the media, to use Maori names instead of English names which everybody understands. The ridiculous “Waka Kotahi” is now widely used by the media without any mention of NZ Transport Agency. Simon Dallow, on One News, refers to Paremata instead of Parliament, Otautahi instead of Christchurch, and other names which mean nothing to the vast majority of people.
    
    I have no objection to individuals referring to these places by Maori names if they want to. But for the Government and media to use a Maori name which nobody understands is just silly. It causes confusion and misunderstanding among many people, especially those for whom English may be their second language. For the media to do this is, in my opinion, abrogating their responsibility to communicate clearly to the public.
    
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    October 29, 2021 8:43am
    - andydownhere
      
      And Waka means canoe and kotahi means one. So it means One Canoe. One Canoe! we drive cars and trucks on NZTA roads not canoes. Is this what the government wants? no cars so no road deaths… we all use canoes. I don’t get Waka Kotahi
      
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      October 29, 2021 7:42pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Messed up with Maori.
    Kainga Ora as a name says nothing about housing. My best bastardised translation is Family living/life.
    English has little help for the paucity of Te Reo. (The spoken.)
    It is hard, to impossible, to convey the 20th century in a language fixed in the early 1800’s. It can name a kumara planting digging stick but not a back hoe.
    We cannot Maorise English. It simply has too few basic words and it is ultra ugly transliterating English into Maori form–frequently using English grammar too!
    
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    October 29, 2021 11:01am
    - Nickc2
      
      Ah but this has been well thought out. Even the MSM has signed up to it and it’s being taught and pushed in our schools, WTF?
      
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      October 29, 2021 11:22am
      - Cobolt24
        
        Blame the wokes in the Labour party pushing it.
        Only those who toe the woke line get a slice of the $55 million fund. They’ve literally paid them off.
        
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        October 29, 2021 11:53am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        It’s excruciating to be subjected to it.
        It doubful if it is officially English with the interspersed poor Maori.
        
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        October 29, 2021 4:16pm
    - Paulus
      
      I thought I heard that the Maori dialectic was only about 120 so called words in the 18000 – the rest was developed by the Missionaries.
      
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      October 29, 2021 2:00pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        The didn’t have hus and kotis.
        
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        October 29, 2021 4:18pm
- cmm
  
  BY: Where was this?
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:25am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Christchurch
    
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    October 29, 2021 8:45am
- Surely Knott
  
  Todays current cases locations. Are 14 more in home isolation. 72 in other. 0 more in hospital , 0 more in MIQ. Where is other?
  
  There are total 122 MIQ, 31, Hosp, 186 in Home or self iso, 1008 in other.
  
  Where is other? . I suspect that quite a few of those are boarding houses. Went to town yesterday a dozen street guys sitting outside in the carpark for a good social session and random acquaintances walking up for a handshake etc.. And on the way home the pan handlers with signs on all three corners walking up and down the rows of cars as people roll down their windows for a chat and to put money in their bucket and drive home. No QR codes or track and trace for any of that. I wonder how many people a pan handler talks to at the lights each day.
  
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  October 29, 2021 11:52am
Nukuleka

There is a huge amount of anger and opposition to the Three Waters legislation in Canterbury. If National cannot capitalise on this and mount a strong anti government campaign around this issue now then they are not worthy of being Her Majesty’s loyal opposition. Come on, Judith, Mahuta has offered you a golden opportunity. Seize it!
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October 29, 2021 8:06am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Huge amount of anger in Auckland due to being locked down so long.
  Huge amount of anger in Christchurch re: 3 Waters and getting Covid.
  I hope these angry people remember when they vote.
  
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  October 29, 2021 3:19pm
  - geodon
    
    If we are allowed to vote again
    
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    October 29, 2021 5:38pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

First time in History a medicines ineffectiveness is now being blamed on those who have not taken it
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October 29, 2021 8:07am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Welcome to another day of lockdown tyranny.
  
  Do you think today will be the day jacinda stops lying to us and openly states the obvious.
  
  Covid is endemic and we are going to have to learn to live with it.
  
  It was always going to become endemic and we were always going to have to learn to live with it.
  
  We wasted billions of dollars we dont have and caused huge economic and social destruction on a failed elimination policy.
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:18am
  - Nickc2
    
    She’s enjoying it. It’s furthering her drive towards Socialism.
    The fact that many many small and large businesses have had to close down or go bankrupt is a mere pittance when you’re on a roll.
    
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    October 29, 2021 12:11pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Her job as a communist is to destroy all capitalist businesses and make everyone dependent on her.
    Nothing will happen until she is railroaded at the voting booth.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9rsxFaq6Ig
    
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    October 29, 2021 1:02pm
- Simon
  
  Not true. They used to blame crop failure on the unvaxxed during the middle ages.
  
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  October 29, 2021 9:19am
Maggie's partner

I have chosen that henceforth, I will be a trans Maori with self diagnosed ADHD. So just to be clear, no-one is allowed to be rude to me, disagree with me or contradict anything I say.
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October 29, 2021 8:09am
- RalphT
  
  Except Maggie; she’s the boss.
  
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  October 29, 2021 12:16pm
Bridgenag

When looking for a news outlet I clicked onto Newsroom then later realised I was in the devils camp. I cancelled my subscription and when asked why said “I was looking for proper news and proper journalists and didn’t realise you were part of the MSM paid by this Government. Shame”

So this was their reply…..
I’m not sure what the basis is for your view but I can assure you we are not likely to promote the Government’s agenda or, for that matter, the opposition’s agenda.

In terms of the Government funding through the Public Interest Journalism Fund, there are no conditions attached other than a commitment to the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi.

We would never accept any conditions that impinged on our editorial freedom.

Newsroom, since its inception four and a half years ago, has received Government funding for The Detail podcast and Newsroom Investigates (our video investigations led by Melanie Reid).

The Investigates team has forced the Government to make considerable changes in Oranga Tamariki, and other Government departments, with its fearless reporting. We continue to hold this Government and other decision makers to account wherever we can.

Kris Faafoi, the minister responsible for the PIJF, when questioned on this issue of funding the media, rather ruefully pointed out that he had been the focus of a critical performance appraisal from Newsroom’s political editor, Jo Moir.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/whats-eating-kris-faafoi

The only reason we accept public funding is that it helps us provide more in-depth analysis for the reader.

If you have any specific questions about funding or influence we would be happy to answer them.

Kind regards,

Such casual acceptance of a crucial condition!
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October 29, 2021 8:09am
Tomtoddy

The Ferald has rushed to Labour’s aid on Three Waters with a support piece by Brian Fallow. There is nothing money can’t buy.

The challenge in this debate is that many councils are utterly useless in their management of water assets. Distracted by non-urgent issues like cycleways, speed bumps, monuments etc they have made a pig’s ear of their stewardship of waste water issues particularly. There is a sound case for improvement.

The pertinent question is “will centralisation and handing over to Maori elites fix the real problem?” Centralisation of management rarely produces improvements except on paper. It is simply a recipe for added bureaucracy, bloated salaries, a greater ability to hide underperformance and higher costs.

Fallow claims the Maori input is about “improved environmental outcomes”. Why does this myth persist that Maori are better at handling environmental issues? Historically they raped and pillaged the country, caused extinction of species, used fire indiscriminately and practised poor stewardship. Currently they show no better or no worse methods that non-Maori. So why the inclusion? It is partly the white guilt factor but it is also the “fatcat” syndrome. We have a handful of Maori leaders in key advisory roles who are in the make work business for themselves and their mates. High paying roles where all they need do is turn up.

It is time to call a spade a spade and call it out for what it is.
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October 29, 2021 8:10am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2021/10/29/three-waters-whats-not-to-like/
  
  Chris Trotter’s take on 3Waters. In case you thought it couldn’t get any worse.
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:16am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “The pertinent question is “will centralisation and handing over to Maori elites fix the real problem?””
  
  No it will fail. The Maori elites will blame a lack of money and colonisation. I wish I was kidding.
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:19am
  - bronny1
    
    Did people also realise that the new entity will take all the assets but leave the debt with the councils.
    So a council that has spent billions on assets that are in great condition but also has billions in debt against that will lose the assets but keep the debt. The ratepayers will then cross subsidise all the shitty councils out there while paying the debt on the good ones they used to own….
    
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    October 29, 2021 8:57am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Maori environmentalists? They nearly caused their own extinction.
  This is a coup attempt to overturn the Treaty after their handsome payouts. What is not evident is why the govt is going along with it. What have they got on Jacinda or others?
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:27am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    They control those who vote for Jaspinda
    
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    October 29, 2021 8:52am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I don’t think it is as easy as that. There is real ratbagery evident and that suggests crooked power play.
      
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      October 29, 2021 11:04am
  - Simon
    
    “Maori environmentalists? They nearly caused their own extinction.”
    
    Pre-colonial NZ was a violent shithole racked with cannibalism.
    
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    October 29, 2021 9:22am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      They would have thought of it increasing their personal mana by destroying an enemy or slave.
      
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      October 29, 2021 4:20pm
    - Nickc2
      
      At least we’ve largely gotten rid of cannibalism. That’s progress eh bro!
      
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      October 29, 2021 8:55pm
  - crikey
    
    It’s time to abolish the treaty if things continue down the path initiated by this Labour government (initially in secret collusion with Maori factions). Both parties to the treaty – the government representing the Crown, and Maori) are in breach of the treaty’s principles. Mind you, by the time Labour has finished I doubt Maori will be at all worried.
    
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    October 29, 2021 9:42am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Why have a Treaty in 2021?
      After all, it is just a badly composed real estate agreement now used for blackmail
      
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      October 29, 2021 2:07pm
  - RockyJ
    
    My impression with respect to conservation in the Hauraki Gulf is that is Maori interests who hold up genuine improvements. They have 50% of the fishing quota and act through fishing companies they own. Also the Maori co govrrnance structure of the Hauraki Gulf Forum means any of that body’s conservation proposals are really advancing Maori claims eg for cogovernance of the Hauraki Gulf coast or customary rights reserves which are really private Maori fish farms. They block genuine no take marine reserves all the while claiming the moral high ground.
    
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    October 29, 2021 10:15am
  - septic skeptic
    
    The payoff for Labour once he puapua is fully implemented is huge. They get an upper house with a virtually guaranteed permanent majority because the majority of Maori voters are tribal Labour regardless of how they are treated.
    
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    October 29, 2021 10:58am
- Raphael
  
  They’re also leaving out the fact that centralising water, one of the main functions of a Council (and therefore one of their biggest departments) will result in most of those jobs moving to Wellington. This will have a result that a number of smaller towns are going to be loosing a number of families in the area. This has a knock on effect wo all the schools, shops and cafe’s. It will seriously damage towns already battling for numbers.
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:28am
- CJames
  
  Round this way there is a lot of Maori trust farms that have been converted to dairy farms. From all the information I have seen, they are well run. They are also near indistinguishable from the non-Maori farms next door.
  Yet we are lead to believe that it is dairy farms that are the major cause of all the water quality issues. Indeed it was initially blamed for Havelock North even though nearest farm was 50km away and in another catchment.
  So how will having representatives of the “polluters” being the controlling management of the water supply improve matters?
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:31am
  - pdm
    
    From all the information I have seen, they are well run.’
    
    Probably have Pakeha Managers.
    
    I know of several which do and as an aside Son in Law manages a sheep and beef farm 9,000 acres in the central NI. He took it from almost insolvency to trading mainly in credit in 3 years after he took over.
    
    Not a skerrick of Maori Blood in him.
    
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    October 29, 2021 9:07am
  - Ed Snack
    
    The Havelock water issue was blamed on grazing stock, not Dairy as I recall. The bores for the water intake were in a paddock and there was a known issue with surface water potentially entering one bore at times of high rainfall. That problem,despite being notified several times, was not dressed in a timely fashion.
    
    I do understand though, that to their credit, once the scale of the issue was forcefully brought home to them, the local council has invested heavily on improving the water supply network. An oversight organisation with deduction and teeth would have worked, but getting one of those in a local or National government level is essentially impossible.
    
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    October 29, 2021 9:44am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Stuff has an article where Ngai Tahu are rubbishing Winston for saying that the Trois L’éau is apartheid.
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:33am
- alloytoo
  
  It’s always the same talking points which originated in the Beehive, which would have us believe that sludge is flowing from every tap in the country.
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:40am
- bronny1
  
  There is a recent taxpayer talk podcast episode on this. It has an interesting discussion on the governance that I had missed, just layers and layers of it.
  Also, apparently the new body will have 6-9000 (new) staff.
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:55am
  - Raphael
    
    some of that is because they are committing to existing staff being still employed as at start date of the new entity.
    There is nothing about day 2 of the new entity and I suspect a large number of people will find themselves either downsized or told they have to move to Wellington to keep their job.
    
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    October 29, 2021 12:53pm
    - Bridgenag
      
      and……. swear on the treaty partnership and speak Te Reo
      
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      October 29, 2021 1:33pm
- Nickc2
  
  No matter how much lipstick you put on this pig, this pig aka 3 Waters is still a pig. This pig of a rort is nothing but theft by Maori for Maori sanctioned by a corrupt Govt.
  How the eff can community assets paid for by ratepayers (after tax and including GST) be taken from their representatives (Councils) and gifted to Maori for so called Management and Oversight with no expertice whatsoever in managing or overseeing anything built, established or funded by others.
  Why is this rort not being challenged in the courts?
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:58am
- Ruahine
  
  Still waiting for the strong response from the Auckland Labour Mayor Phil Goff to the theft of the regions Water Infrastructure.
  
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  October 29, 2021 9:04am
  - Nickc2
    
    Holding your breath that long could be mortal! Goff is still part of the swamp IMO.
    
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    October 29, 2021 12:00pm
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    To be fair to Goof:
    He was strongly against it, before and after the mandatory nature was announced.
    He was on HDPA along with the Timaru and Porirua mayor the day of the announcement. Only Porirua was keen, because they can’t afford water & sewer upgrades themselves.
    But in general, Mayors say change is fine – but not this structure, and not the loss of their asset.
    I expect it would be cheaper to simple subsidise water by national government, and allow councils to spend – perhaps just with some KPI or oversight.
    Not a new centralised & costly command structure, distant from local democracy, and not a back door to Iwi control of water.
    
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    October 29, 2021 12:31pm
  - Bridgenag
    
    Where has Goff been for the last couple of years? Hiding away padding up the pay packets of the upper levels….
    
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    October 29, 2021 1:35pm
- Leofric
  
  The bullshit myth of the noble savage, guardian of the Earth, living harmoniously with Mother Nature, really gets my goat. When it comes to environmental destruction the Maoris were just about the worst.
  
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  October 29, 2021 10:02am
  - Nickc2
    
    Haven’t changed much eh bro?
    
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    October 29, 2021 12:02pm
Humble Capitalist

Im going in for my second jab later today. I plan to run 20km tomorrow. Does anybody know if theres any added health risk to doing this?
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October 29, 2021 8:11am
- crackle
  
  A freind traing for a marathon was told to take it easy for a week by his doctor. So wouldnt advise it.
  
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  October 29, 2021 12:33pm
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  Run to your jab appointment, and then walk or bus home.
  Sorted.
  But I dare say you are not at risk, but if curious; ask.
  I still drank my usual booze, and did my usual workouts.
  You may have a sore arm, and you might get some side effects for up to 3 days. I know of some getting it (feeling crappy), but in this household, it was only the needle & nothing else.
  And as for the Clot Shot (not that you asked!): You are probably more at risk of being raped while jogging than dying from the vaccine.
  Fear is the mindkiller.
  
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  October 29, 2021 12:36pm
- herb1
  
  I did 100k on bike straight after second jab
  I’m 61 and didn’t feel a thing
  2 days after though I was on the couch
  In hindsight a day off then back to training might be better
  
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  October 29, 2021 1:24pm
- Humble Capitalist
  
  Thanks for the advice team, Ive cancelled tomorrows 20km run. The lady in front of me for the jab looked like she was a team Ardern sort, I got talking – well she went into a rant about how NZ is like a dictatorship, that the country is being ruined by this government and that she was pressured into getting the jab as she would lose her job. Didnt ask what she did but would guess that she was a teacher. She was right off Comrade and it was music to my ears. I was asked if I have any allergies, only Jacinda Ardern I said
  
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  October 29, 2021 3:26pm
  - Humble Capitalist
    
    Ps. The woman in front of me was rightly beside herself as she has had bad reactions to the flu injection before
    
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    October 29, 2021 3:57pm
- SteakandCheese
  
  Stop looking for an excuse to get out of your run you lazy prick.
  
  Why only 20km anyway?
  
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  October 29, 2021 6:18pm
- MCos
  
  If I could run one kilometer the day after a jab I’d have one every day.
  
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  October 29, 2021 9:50pm
Master Mariner

Great article from Forbes
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johntamny/2021/10/24/theres-no-supply-chain-shortage-or-inflation-theres-just-central-planning/?sh=454621a71479
“Either they think we have inflation, shortages, or a combination of both. Wrong on all counts. Really, who was talking about supply-chain shortages or the impossibility that is demand-driven inflation in early 2020? Very few were, and that’s because the U.S. economy was largely free then. At which point politicians panicked. And in panicking, they imposed a rather draconian form of command-and-control on the U.S. economy.”

This also is even More critical and correct for NZ with the Draconian Lockdowns smashing supply chains .

“In which case let’s please not insult reason by talking about “shortages” or “inflation” now. Let’s instead be realistic and talk about central planning. We know from the 20th century that when politicians, authoritarians or both substitute their intensely narrow knowledge for that of the marketplace that immense want for very little (and lousy) supply is the logical result. Yes it is. When we’re not economically free, bare shelves are the inevitable result.”

International Law has been largely based on International shipping, Think of the Phonecians and even French and English trading in Wine Barrels, which incidentally was were the measure “Ton” came from. Not too mention Insurance and Lloyds of London and also Shares in Trading vessel which became shares in companies.
The point is International Shipping is and always will be “front and center” of modern Law and Supply chains etc.

How has NZ done?

As you may no my story with the impossibility of returning to NZ “Keeping Supply chains running” I had little choice but to resign.
In addition 100’s if not over 1000 similar NZ domiciled Seafarers either could not be employed due to the shear nature of impossibility for repatriation after their Tour and thereby unemployable or in my case unable to return home and “deserted” by NZ Government onboard..

This is why I fully agree with this article.
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October 29, 2021 8:13am
ABS4EVA

3 Waters

Water on the Brain Politics

fom Labour
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October 29, 2021 8:17am
RiP NZ

Watched a news article last night on the Watercare interceptor tunnel excavations and subsequent fossil finds.
The palaeontologist on audio said words to the effect of – New Zealand was a much warmer place, and the quote kind of reflects this.

“This one here which is a cone shell, and this big marine snail and this coral, all once lived in warmer waters which are much warmer than they are today.”

Not a lot of man made greenhouse gas back then.

I wont mention the local Iwi representative who somehow tied 3.5m year old fossils, to ‘stories handed down by her tipuna’
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October 29, 2021 8:18am
Ruawai

Assume Government will now give $120,000,000 to trucking companies to help raise their drivers vaccination rates. I heard this morning on the radio that truck drivers vaccination rates are 10-15% lower than the rest of the population. Truck drivers must be one of the ‘marginalised groups’ the government speaks of.
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October 29, 2021 8:19am
krazykiwi

How’s ya vaxx smugness?

Swedish study shows covid vaccines drop below zero efficacy on spread by about 200 days

Look at the Figure 2 chart, the point at which Pfizer et al stopped their trials … then look at the downward slope .. to below zero.
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October 29, 2021 8:22am
- PhilBest
  
  That is really something, thanks Krazy.
  
  “…companies like pfizer are VERY good at clinical trials.
  
  they do not make mistakes. they make choices.
  
  and given these longer term results, it seems clear why they chose to run short trials and then eliminate the control groups after about 90 days. because that’s when things start to go off the rails…”
  
  That is very well put.
  
  This is also why “trials” of Hydroxychloroquine “failed” – the people paid to do them are “very good at doing them”. Late treatment rather than early; different dose; omit the Zinc; omit the antibiotic; or swamp the outcomes by using a cohort 100% not at risk of dying anyway so that the outcomes are “inconclusive”.
  
  This rot has been a long time in the making and it is one of the weak points of democracy that it is unlikely to throw up any government that will deal with the corruption of “science”.
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:32am
- cmm
  
  kk: People will wonder how the effectiveness of a vaccine can drop below zero, but it is just as we’ve been discussing the last few days.
  
  It is exactly the same reason as why wearing a raincoat makes you wet. If you don’t put on a raincoat then you stay out of the rain – put one on and you go out in the rain.
  
  When people get vaccinated they think they are now invincible, fully protected or 95% protected or some other massively inflated figure – so they then go modify their behaviour. If the vaccine’s ability to combat transmission drops to 50% and they then go double their transmission risk then they’re going backwards.
  
  PS: I hate that writing style with zero caps.
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:39am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Peer-reviewed by 21 cats and a de-feathered bird. What do you expect?
    
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    October 29, 2021 8:46am
    - cmm
      
      Brian what would you know about peer reviews?
      
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      October 29, 2021 9:14am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Brian has had extensive first hand experience of reviews, the reason he is able to comment here . . .
        
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        October 29, 2021 10:01am
      - cmm
        
        Parole boards are not his peers…. Well I hope not anyway!
        
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        October 29, 2021 4:25pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I know I should not engage .. but it has had no peer review because it is a preprint. Nevertheless, rarely would The Lancet publish a preprint unless it had quite a bit of confidence in the credibility of the authors.
      
      But perhaps you can enlighten us on your views of the vaccine efficacy based on your own understanding of the literature.
      
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      October 29, 2021 9:16am
      - mawm
        
        I have become suspicious of this “peer reviewed” label. A lot of climate science articles that do not bow to the current thought are rejected (by those who have toed the line) and then their detractors chant the mantra “not peer reviewed” to silence them. This is beginning to occur in the medical literature on Covid19.
        
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        October 29, 2021 12:03pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        mawm, agreed. Peer review is tending towards tribal backscratching. You help me get published so your institution can secure that research funding, and I’ll reciprocate.
        
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        October 29, 2021 12:52pm
    - Simon
      
      Chin up Brian dont worry too much Cindy has got the booster shot ready for you in March April next year. Right?
      
      The booster shot for the vulnerable. Those with anxiety such as the average labo supporter is a must.
      
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      October 29, 2021 9:16am
  - Ed Snack
    
    More that the vaccine potentially affects the immune system and reduces ones innate immune response.
    
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    October 29, 2021 9:45am
  - thirteenstars
    
    “PS: I hate that writing style with zero caps.”
    
    Try reading Cold Mountain by Charles Frazier. None of the dialogue is in quotes, it just flows on from the narrative. Insanely frustrating. I gave up.
    
    Fortunately they made a very good movie out of it.
    
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    October 29, 2021 10:02am
- PhilBest
  
  Another very important point about this study is the fact that it is Swedish. That means that the vaccines “waning effectiveness” is far less likely to do with restrictions being loosened, as Sweden did not have the restrictions.
  
  Note that the study authors “conclude” that the “case for booster shots is strong”, but as that blogger argues:
  
  “…so you’re rebuying immunity (with boosters) every 3-6 months, taking the adverse event risk again, and using it to avoid an outcome (getting covid) that is not terribly dangerous for most and thus getting very little absolute risk reduction. this was already a bad bet for most under 50 and pretty much anyone without comorbidities.
  
  but having to make the bet, over and over, just to stand still means that eventually, it’s a bad bet for anyone because once you get covid, you rarely get it again and when you do, it’s mild. acquired immunity from recovery is FAR superior to vaccinated immunity and looks to be actually sterilizing as well so you’ll stop being a spread vector…”
  
  BUT that blogger then links to another essay of his that makes disturbing reading:
  
  https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/original-antigenic-sin
  
  The vaccines may well be REDUCING the contribution made by inevitable natural infection, to reduction of spread. Because once you have been vaccinated, your body will no longer generate the specific antibodies response that DOES stop spread. N versus S. It is complicated.
  
  But it does demonstrate the validity of the argument I have been making all along, that “leaving war to generals” and “leaving medicine to scientific researchers” is a mistake and we need leaders with a good solid grounding in morals and philosophy to make some judgement calls. Mine would be that there is ALWAYS Karma to pay when we let “experts” PLAY GOD.
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:43am
  - mawm
    
    Up tick… but I’m not so sure about your last sentence. Almost in unison the OECD countries ditched well prepared pandemic plans and introduced the current approach to covid19. This was a politicised decision and to my way of thinking if I had wanted to make a pandemic kill as many as I could and make it last as long as possible without seeming to be doing so, this is what I would have done.
    
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    October 29, 2021 12:11pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Inconvenient truths. They seem to be coming through more rapidly every day. I think there may be quite a lot of nervous people sitting in the middle of all of this. Another year should get us closer to the truth.
    
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    October 29, 2021 10:45pm
Maggie Pie

My partner’s mum has finally succumbed to the science.

She went and got her first jab yesterday.

When one of the old guys at the Retirement Village mentioned he’d heard Liquorland would only allow customers with a ‘Vaccine Certificate’ into their bottle shops, she was pretty much convinced.
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October 29, 2021 8:25am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Welcome back Mags. Did you enjoy your holiday?
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:29am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Hey thnx Capt’n! 😀
    Spent the time reading my partner’s copy of ‘Mein Kampf ‘
    But who knew inferring that some people suffered from bad breath was considered ‘racism’ these days, and could get you cancelled. LOL!!
    
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    October 29, 2021 8:44am
    - kowtow
      
      Ordure for odor.
      
      Whodda thunk it.
      
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      October 29, 2021 9:16am
    - peterwn
      
      I can’t read my copy. Not only is it in German, it also uses Gothic type which I cannot quite figure out.
      
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      October 29, 2021 10:14am
- Flossie
  
  Welcome back Maggie. Missed you!
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:30am
- westernScientest
  
  You could have been a nice daughter in law and shown her how to do an online order with delivery.
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:49am
- Scooter
  
  Yay you’re back
  
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  October 30, 2021 12:27am
Tomtoddy

There is only one reason to try and force the unvaccinated to comply, to run a “mark of the beast” certificate to be able to get access and to hold the country to ransom – the possible crashing of our ICU system.

There is no other logical reason. If someone chooses to run the risk that is there problem – it should be their freedom to do so.

However we run a socialist health system. It is so bad we have the lowest per capita ICU rate in the developed world and such an incompetent govt that despite knowing the problem for 18 months have not fixed it. One more major fail.

It costs a million dollars a year to run an ICU. If they get flooded by the few unvaccinated, those who choose not to get the jab, they should pick up a reasonable amount of the cost of their stay. With freedom comes responsibility.

Let the rest of us out of this miserable prison and save the remaining businesses and jobs.
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October 29, 2021 8:30am
- PhilBest
  
  No-one seems to be asking what price inadequate ICU capacity or hospital capacity or even repurposable space for medical treatment, when any natural disaster comes along?
  
  St Cindy can “protect the health system” by sacrificing the economy, society and aggregate health outcomes themselves when a WuFlu comes along, but what will she do with mass severe injuries in a big earthquake or similar disaster? By the way, are the hospitals even in the right places for disaster resilience, and / or will victims even be able to be got to there?
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:50am
- kowtow
  
  ICU will crash once this thing gets up and running .
  
  And there’ll be as many if not more “vaccinaded” patients as non.
  
  The simple fact is the bat flu, as has been said so many times here, is a “harvester” , it is a situation of “displaced mortality” . If you are old , fat and/or have a number of co morbidities she’s gonna get ya , the jab won’t stop her.
  
  The responsibility is not so much on getting vaccinaded as having lived a healthy life , as far as is reasonably possible , so as to keep that harvester from your own door .
  
  Don’t fall into the deliberately laid govt / media trap of blaming healthy young skeptics for your govt imposed imprisonment , stripping of rights.
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:50am
- cmm
  
  ” If they get flooded by the few unvaccinated, those who choose not to get the jab, they should pick up a reasonable amount of the cost of their stay. ”
  
  It will be flooded by people with comorbidities – many of which are chosen. Are you saying they should pick up a reasonable amount of the cost too?
  
  When I was in hospital in Feb 2020 there was a guy there who had had a fancy auto-defibrilator fitted after many heart attacks. It’s basically an internal defibrilator that automatically zaps the guy if he has a heart attack (and Bluetooths his phone to call an ambulance too).
  
  On top of that, the DHB was paying to install equipment to make it easier for him to cart his bulky body around (eg. rails to help him get onto the toilet).
  
  This guy would not have given much change, if any, from 200 kg and was continuing over eating to excess (his equally obese partner bringing him brownies etc on the ward). As they were leaving they were planning their trip home: first hit Maccas for two burgers each then pick up a bucket between the three of them for the rest of the trip.
  
  All this and pulling the dole too as a sickness beneficiary.
  
  It is people like that who are filling up ICUs.
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:52am
  - Tomtoddy
    
    That is the socialist health system. Of course your 200 kg mate should pay. The hospital can quickly tell the difference between those with co-morbidities and those who havent. They make value judgements of that order every day.
    
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    October 29, 2021 9:13am
    - Sacha
      
      I think you are on very shaky ground when it comes to deciding which co-morbidities are worth saving.
      It could lead to an ICU intensivist citing outcomes for (e.g.) obesity overlaid with respiratory infection, and declining to admit on likely survival – not on the duty-of-care principles of medical ethics, the most well known of which is that each is treated as well as the next person.
      Hence the recidivist alcoholic gets the same care as the teetotaller.
      
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      October 29, 2021 9:55am
    - Ed Snack
      
      The problem is, they can’t pay. And never will be able to.
      
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      October 29, 2021 10:14am
  - kowtow
    
    ‘It is people like that who are filling up ICUs.’
    
    In more ways than one.
    
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    October 29, 2021 9:15am
  - Jimbo666
    
    I wonder if he still is alive?
    I know someone who has one of those machines. Apart from heart failure no comorbidities. The medicos put it down to a stressful work life.
    Has had it for about 10 years so it was worthwhile.
    
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    October 29, 2021 10:29am
- Mrs_Right
  
  “….those who choose not to get the jab, they should pick up a reasonable amount of the cost of their stay”.
  
  By that logic all those obese with Type 2 Diabetes taking up beds in our hospitals should also do the same.
  
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  October 29, 2021 9:58am
- miltonF
  
  That’s kind of like how mad scientists funded with taxpayer money have been “free” to create new deadly viruses and inflict massive damage on the world. Where is the responsibility there??
  
  Those in hospital did not cause this virus. Lay the blame where it lies. With those who have stolen money from hard workers, to give to crazy irresponsible people, with the hope that it will somehow improve life for the masses. I believe there is a word for this kind of behaviour – socialism.
  
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  October 29, 2021 10:27am
- mandk
  
  A million a year to run an ICU?
  
  That’s incredibly cheap, compared to the cost of all the COVID restrictions that are still being imposed.
  
  Let’s just buy 1,000 more ICUs and do away with all the restrictions.
  
  It will save us squillions.
  
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  October 29, 2021 10:32am
  - bronny1
    
    I think its a million per bed as its 6 nurses to do round the clock 24×7 PER BED. Plus presumably a fraction of a doc plus some physical stuff.
    
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    October 29, 2021 12:53pm
- Reid
  
  “There is no other logical reason.”
  
  I explained the logical reason on yesterday’s vax thread. Eliminate the control group.
  
  If you don’t have a control group you obfuscate the data so it’s much harder to tell if an emerging health issue is due to the vax or not. This is why they normally run 6 year trials before any public release. Or at least, that was the standard before Covid.
  
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  October 29, 2021 10:36am
- Iver Mectin
  
  Tom if you look at the info from England Public health you will see that the majority of hospital beds are occupied by vaccinated individuals. Over 75% Unfortunately the 10% of not vacinated cannot possibly overload the system unless they use up 5 beds each. Or everybody gets is on same day and they were all suffering from comorbidities
  
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  October 29, 2021 10:59am
- ClanMcleod
  
  And if as is looking likely, it is the vaccinated who fill those beds, of course you will apply the same logic? Or will it be “not their fault because they were lied to by the gummint”? Or will it be the fault of the unjabbed anyway because they didn’t do enough to tell you there was a problem?
  General Debate should be interesting next winter.
  
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  October 29, 2021 10:56pm
Truman lodge

Boosters every 6 months or your passport expires. Micro lockdowns and pings on your phone if you mix with the unvaccinated. Who decides this?

I’m actually terrified now, Seriously it looks like Auckland will be shut off over Xmas. 2022 is going to be interesting. People seem to support totalitarian ideas now. People at my workplace support facial recognition technology and think its fine for police to bust into your house.

One thing this pandemic has done is highlight how many Authoritarians there are. They have all been exposed.
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October 29, 2021 8:30am
MCos

There are two cases of covid-19 in Christchurch.
On the wireless this morning I heard a number of local residents who were wild because ‘the government’ hadn’t done more to keep Ch’ch disease free.
What do they want? Put everyone from Auckland in MIQ?

Meanwhile everyday I hear on the radio people who are wild with the MIQ system. The general theme seems to be if one is vaccinated and tested before leaving there should be no need for MIQ. At least from places with low infection rates.
Auckland has a low infection rate.

Who should prevail in the clash of the noisy?
Personally I’ve taken to turning the radio off when I hear someone from either of groups.

Now there is talk by some people of requiring proof of vaccination to cross regional borders within NZ.
Forget it.
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October 29, 2021 8:37am
I remember when

Taupo Ironman event, along with a couple of others, has been cancelled.
The organiser stated that “with no end in sight” they were left with little option.
Either that or the possibility of a very long race.
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October 29, 2021 8:38am
I remember when

“Barry.”
“That’s the second time I’ve been honoured this week.”

When I heard his name the first time I thought ‘someone has been reading the mood in the room.’
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October 29, 2021 8:43am
Over Taxed Worker

Well Chris “Rip Van Winkle” Hipkins has woken up and made a minor tweak to MIQ with 14 days in prison dropping to 7 days. Obviously too busy rubbing the sleep out of his eyes to see the stupidity of isolating COVID-19 positive at home in Auckland whilst locking up hose with negative tests.
Oh hang-on he says it “would be a pretty challenging exercise”. Surely can get some of the 4000 MBIE staff to do something useful.
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October 29, 2021 8:44am
70andstilllearning

Oops! Looks like the media ( or maybe the PM’s PR team) have suddenly realised that they are supplying oxygen to one side of a conversation. Better start censoring.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018818210/the-case-for-cutting-the-coverage-of-anti-vaxxers

Unintended consequences?
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October 29, 2021 8:51am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  They never stop giving Winston Peters free publicity. Why should these people be any different?
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:58am
- westernScientest
  
  I wonder how many people went: “haha im going to go look at what these 5g nutters are saying for a bit of a lol” Then come across something like what KK argues and go, hmmm maybe I am missing something
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:58am
- Lucia Maria
  
  Must be getting their inspiration from China.
  
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  October 29, 2021 9:31am
- cmm
  
  It is disturbing how they think they are able to sift through the information properly, but the “dumb sheep” can’t.
  
  I will agree that few people can sift through the information, but it is ridiculous to think that these modern-day journalists and other activists can.
  
  “Thanks to our innate inability to properly weight these numbers,… The solution, …, was to not platform the lies in the first place.”
  
  So now the media think they should be judge, jury and executioner and “choose” what facts should bet propagated and what not.
  
  If they really are going to suppress lies, then how about asking Cindy about all those porkies on the Podium of Truth? Naah, got $100M reasons not to!
  
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  October 29, 2021 10:52am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Journalism grads are almost uniformly poorly educated in technical matters, and have proven their stupidity by going into a badly paid dying profession. They are not fit to judge anything beyond matters of fashion. Their judgment on anything that actually matters and requires keen comprehension is not worth shit.
    
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    October 29, 2021 1:54pm
RockyJ

Leaders develop strategies off the back of their personal values. Few are conscious of this. Ardern values being seen as smarter, a star, a winner. So as a winner she has developed a strategy that feels intuitively right for her- a competition.
She is pitting regions of NZ against each other as a way to win a vaccination competition. She is also pitting individuals against each other, the vaxxed versus the unvaxxed.
I have worked in organisational psychology and seen this applied in the corporate world. Pretty soon people start to sabotage each other. They get tired of the acrimony that comes from this and twig that they are being manipulated. As the competition falls apart the strategy flip flops but it is never the leader’s fault.
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October 29, 2021 9:03am
Stu2

There was a non-paywalled Herald article late yeseterday on the ICU situation in a provincial hospital (Gisborne, Tairawhiti DHB).

They have six icu beds and intend having three available for Covid patients in an outbreak. The complicating factor is that more than three are often in use normally.

Probably the situation in many of the provinces.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-six-icu-beds-three-for-covid-gisborne-hospital-prepares-for-surge-in-low-vaxed-area/QPHPJRLEA7S5AKJ3NX3P3ZJK6Q/
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October 29, 2021 9:06am
ecco

That announcement about the Auckland light rail yesterday seems to be just another vote buying move by the government. After having smashed them with a ten week lock down. Harshest in the world.

Anyone who followed how long the Sydney light rail took to build will know that it would take years of disruption and probably totally wipe out whatever is left of the Auckland cbd with the building disruption. The government’s little messenger in Auckland, Goff, came out of his cave to bleat how great the announcement was.
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October 29, 2021 9:11am
Maggie Pie

I see on Twitter people are saying that about 30 members of the Waikato Mongrel Mob are heading to the southern end of the Auckland border to join the ‘Sovereign Hikoi of Truth’.

There would have been a lot more, but they only had two cars available.
😀
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October 29, 2021 9:20am
- Frank the tank
  
  There ‘stock’ must be getting low then…….
  
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  October 29, 2021 10:02am
- Don Beckett
  
  That’s okay Maggie. They could augment their convoy by doing what they always do – steal a few more cars or utes.
  
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  October 29, 2021 10:26am
Taieri

Oops! Looks like the media ( or maybe the PM’s PR team) have suddenly realised that they are supplying oxygen to one side of a conversation. Better start censoring.
—————-

Censorship doesn’t stop unorthodox, “unapproved” and PC-incorrect ideas from arising and propagating. If anything, it makes them stronger.
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October 29, 2021 9:22am
Ruawai

Labour will be known as “The Grinch Who Stole Christmas”!!
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October 29, 2021 9:33am
- kowtow
  
  But they can counter that with ;
  
  The whiteys who gave us subaru.
  
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  October 29, 2021 12:00pm
Cassandra

Has it occurred to anyone that this determined policy of the Labour Party to have Maori as a partner is a back door way to getting control of the levers of power? Maori vote Labour about 60/40, sometimes 90/10! Or even 95/10 if you get my drift. Having a partner with power – 50% in the case of water, 99% in the case of universities – gives Labour a huge rort without even breaking into a sweat. Paid for by National and ACT voters! Brilliant! Lenin would be chuckling.
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October 29, 2021 9:41am
- Ra Henare
  
  Always nice to check the facts.
  
  https://elections.nz/democracy-in-nz/historical-events/2020-general-election-and-referendums/voter-turnout-statistics-for-the-2020-general-election/?electorate=All&descent=descent
  
  About 400,000 ish of us on the Maori Roll.
  Not a lot voted.
  
  So your argument about Maori propping up Labour seems a bit far fetched?
  
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  October 29, 2021 2:47pm
  - dcrane
    
    You don’t think this could change under He Pua Pua incentives?
    
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    October 29, 2021 3:36pm
Than

We’re seeing reports of a new Chinese hypersonic missile, which the US Joint Chief of Staff has called “very concerning”.

But based on all the reporting I’ve seen, this isn’t anything particularly new. It seems to be basically just an improved version of the FOBS ballistic missiles that the Soviets deployed in the late 1960’s. Any nation capable of launching satellites into orbit could do exactly the same thing. It makes detection harder and reduces potential response time, but there are already weapons and launch systems around that achieve that.

It is concerning in the sense that any nuclear escalation is bad. But it’s not some radical new gaming-changing capability.
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October 29, 2021 9:54am
- Ohm my
  
  I belong to a FB private weather group based in Oz, in late September there were night time videos from various members about a rocket – 7NEWS Sydney reported it, other than that, nothing. Apparently launched from Xichang Satellite Launch Centre. I was surprised it received virtually no coverage.
  
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  October 29, 2021 12:31pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Hitler has a meltdown in NZ. Well I think it’s Hitler.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTpXUMl7Stw
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October 29, 2021 10:04am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Youtube comments are hilarious
  
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  October 29, 2021 10:21am
- greybeard
  
  The “Tova” bit was the best
  
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  October 29, 2021 10:27am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    She is prob frothing at the mouth
    
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    October 29, 2021 10:35am
- Prince
  
  “It’s OK Tova…”
  Brilliant.
  
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  October 29, 2021 11:25am
WaveyDavey

Resurgence Payment cock-up

The IRD web form is borked – if you put the period covered as 22 Oct says you’re not eligible

Apparently some big-brain can’t get their dates right
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October 29, 2021 10:04am
- Ehlana
  
  I couldn’t find any Resurgence Payment form on the website Wavey – where did you find it?
  
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  October 29, 2021 3:17pm
BeaB

The editor of the Waikato Times is very touchy about any accusation of bias but yesterday there was a tiny correction of a story about Sandra Goudie. The Times featured a story that her council had voted in favour of vaccination but she had voted against it, the only negative vote. This of course fits nicely with the media vilification of her as, who knew, mayors are now expected to be our role models in our health decisions. I think Sandra has always been a bit batty but can’t help thinking the Times didn’t even bother checking to find out there was a unanimous vote in favour, including hers, because they wanted to take another poke at her.
I love the self-important posturing of our so-called journalists as they too try to mount the Podium of Truth but time and time again, demonstrate their bias. And their laziness.
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October 29, 2021 10:05am
- mawm
  
  She has not been inoculated and they are trying to make her a target.
  
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  October 29, 2021 12:54pm
  - Paulus
    
    Its only because she is a good Mayor and was a good National MP.
    
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    October 29, 2021 2:13pm
I remember when

Peeni Henare: Associate Minister of Health:
Question Time:
Re Covid jabs – 86% of Maori actually go through their GPs and PHO not Maori Health Providers.
Maori Health Providers need money to reach these people as payment par jab will not cover their overheads.
In many rural, remote and isolated communities Maori Health Providers have lost touch with the these people.
Last week there were 3 Mobile Clinics in Te Tairawhiti plus further clinics in next 24 hours.

These answers would seem to raise a considerable number of questions in relation to the new Maori Health Authority.
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October 29, 2021 10:16am
Fletch

You won’t see this in the regular media. Four MEPs of the European Parliament defend fundamental rights of EU citizens, and oppose mandatory proof of vaccination.

MEP Christine Anderson, after emphasizing the importance of human rights, said: “Let me say this, I am not afraid of this virus. What I am afraid of is governments abusing this or any other «crisis» for that matter, to infringe on civil rights, to revoke them or to question freedom altogether.

^What we have seen in this crisis is that civil rights and liberties have been transformed from fundamental rights to privileges that governments grant or revoke as they see fit. I call on all Europeans to stand up to any government trying to take away our freedom, civil rights, and liberties!”

Lawyer and MEP Francesca Donato said that “we have a terrible situation in Europe today because human rights are not respected […], and all over Europe peaceful protests are violently repressed.”

“And so we are forcing citizens to receive invasive and risky health treatments because the informed consent that citizens are obliged to sign to receive the vaccines is not free: it’s an extorted consent. So, even when people have medical contraindications for receiving vaccines, they are obliged to take them. They are forced to do it because they would lose the job, would lose their fundamental rights if they don’t do it.

MEP Ivan Sinčić said “that it is really sad to see freedoms, rights, and the rule of law endangered in Europe today. Unfortunately, in some countries, you cannot keep your job without Digital Green Certificate, you cannot enter public buildings without DGC, you cannot enter a shop without DGC.

He described the Digital Green Cert “as a license to spread and infect” that gives “a false sense of security” since it is not protecting the person from getting or spreading the virus. The Digital Green Certificate “is completely illogical, it is not scientific and must be abandoned,” he added.

https://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/modern-day-censorship/meps-of-european-parliament-start-gathering-to-defend-fundamental-rights-of-eu-citizens-and-oppose-mandatory-vaccination-and-the-green-certificate/

You can see the video of the conference in my above link or just watch it here –
https://youtu.be/gA45iVboMLQ
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October 29, 2021 10:21am
- MCos
  
  Four MEPs of the European Parliament represents 0.57% of all MEPs so it’s doubtful it’ll be Breaking News on the NYT let alone the Ashburton Guardian.
  
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  October 29, 2021 12:10pm
  - Fletch
    
    They claim in the video that others also feel the same way who cannot be there. But do numbers matter? It only takes one – a Sir Thomas More – to stand up for what is right.
    
    The lead speaker quotes (at around 11:55) paragraph 46 of the regulation for vaccine passports that was passed some months ago by the body – the freedoms and rights that should not be violated – and finds that all of them have been.
    
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    October 29, 2021 12:40pm
Reid

Founder of the weather channel in the US explains AGW to CNN’s Brian Steltor.

https://twitter.com/PapiTrumpo/status/1453532237211836420
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October 29, 2021 10:21am
- All_on_Red
  
  Poor Tater Head didn’t expect that truth bomb
  
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  October 29, 2021 12:09pm
Leofric

I’m a really simple guy. I don’t know a lot about much. So can somebody here please explain for me in Economics 001 terms how another 9000 jobs and $23 billion added to GDP means money saved for water users?

It’s a genuine question. Who stumps up with that $23b? From whose pockets does it enter the money-go-round?
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October 29, 2021 10:26am
- bronny1
  
  well they steal the assets but leave the debt with the councils. So they have a shit load of assets they can now charge a return on, without having to pay any interest or debt repayments. I suspect that’s where the money comes from.
  Ratepayers then pay the council debt costs PLUS they pay for their water on top.
  
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  October 29, 2021 1:05pm
  - Leofric
    
    Right, so the increase in GDP is actually just money lifted from the pockets of ratepayers, who have to work harder to provide it. I get it. Nice. It’s kind of like Monopoly GDP.
    
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    October 29, 2021 2:32pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    There’s some hairy issues of equity there. A good constitutional QC will enjoy picking this to pieces.
    We paid dearly for our freedom and Kings did not give it lightly.
    
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    October 29, 2021 4:35pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING…

UK Radio are calling Cindy “creepy & psychopathic”.
Say how sorry they feel for New Zealand.
Have even awarded her…. PLANK OF THE WEEK.

https://facebook.com/joanne.dorne.1/videos/207343451473882/?d=n
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October 29, 2021 10:27am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “Do not talk to your neighbours”
  Full blown communism
  
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  October 29, 2021 10:39am
- graham
  
  Wow … they don’t hold back do they? Even using the word that so many others choke over.
  
  This is a woman that seems to be proud that she’s creating, in effect, an apartheid. A two-tier apartheid in New Zealand.
  
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  October 29, 2021 10:46am
- Ruawai
  
  Love it when she says she won’t ever be allowed in NZ because NZ Government will check her social media and see she made our supreme leader plank of the week.
  
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  October 29, 2021 11:29am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Maggie, thank you for bringing that to our attention.
  I have been thinking for an hour or so and I cannot recall anytime ever in the past 60 years where our country’s prime minister has made us the laughing stock of the world.
  And, it seems to get worse, day by day.
  
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  October 29, 2021 1:05pm
  - Bridgenag
    
    She didn’t have the spin doctors there that day.
    
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    October 29, 2021 1:42pm
Reid

The other day I explained the issue with ADE creating a super virus if a mutation included a mutated spike protein. Here’s my post: https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/10/general_debate_27_october_2021.html#comment-3051113

Well, now its happened.

“The spike protein of SARS-CoV-2 variant A.30 is heavily mutated and evades vaccine-induced antibodies with high efficiency”

“Collectively, our results suggest that the SARS-CoV-2 variant A.30 can evade control by vaccine-induced antibodies and might show an increased capacity to enter cells in a cathepsin L-dependent manner, which might particularly aid in the extrapulmonary spread. As a consequence, the potential spread of the A.30 variant warrants close monitoring and rapid installment of countermeasures.”

“Countermeasures” are likely to include a new vaccine. Those of us not yet vaxed of course aren’t affected, we’re in the same position with A.30 as we would be with any other variant, like Delta.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41423-021-00779-5
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October 29, 2021 10:31am
- mawm
  
  This is exactly what various epidemiologists and vaccinologists have been saying about vaccinating everybody. We need natural, broad antigenic exposure in the healthy, vaccinate the elderly and those at risk.
  
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  October 29, 2021 1:02pm
All_on_Red

Well this explains a lot
https://www.wibc.com/blogs/mock-n-rob/pew-study-white-liberals-disproportionately-suffer-from-mental-illness/
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October 29, 2021 10:38am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The difference between a Democracy and a Republic.
https://www.prageru.com/video/the-difference-between-a-democracy-and-a-republic?
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October 29, 2021 10:48am
ecco

I see Ardern hasn’t got the balls to put Christchurch in lockdown, despite cases. Would lose too many votes and she’s already munted her Auckland voter base with her lockdown treatment.

Her comms dept has also sent out a piece to Stuff to ‘explain’ why she doesn’t need to do this. I hope the Auckland electorate totally canes her and Labour at the next election.
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October 29, 2021 10:50am
- kowtow
  
  As someone put it yesterday ; most people work to earn , her supporters vote to “earn” .
  
  And despite being buggered about they still will.
  
  Stockholm Syndrome is so 20 th C , we now have Auckland Syndrome.
  
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  October 29, 2021 11:56am
- bronny1
  
  no, she’s waiting till the day before the 3 waters protest….
  
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  October 29, 2021 1:06pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Wouldn’t it be amazing if Mt Albert flipped? It would be Hillary Clinton all over again
  
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  October 29, 2021 1:16pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Imagine having to repair all those holes in the walls caused by empty Fanta bottles
    
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    October 29, 2021 2:10pm
Paulus

For a laugh – I understand that at Gleneagles (near Glasgow) where the VIP Green conference will take place, the so called Scottish Socialist Government have provided 24 Tesla cars for the VIPs – but they are importing diesel generators as there is only one charging station at Gleneagles.
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October 29, 2021 10:51am
Capricardo

This is a beauty, Maggie.

Should be compulsory reading for all!
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October 29, 2021 10:57am
Jack5

NZ is to allow in 1000 foreign students next year.
This may piss off NZ families with members waiting to get home through quarantine unless there is a genuine opening of the border.

But the big question: is Labour resurrecting the student visa-rorts, whereby private institutions, universities and polytechnics were in effect selling citizenship to attract students?

This was a big contributor to the immigration surge, which gave NZ probably the fastest growing population in the developed world, with the problems that went with fast growth.

These included pressure on infrastucture such as hospitals, schools, social services, cities’ services, plus pressure on housing supply, and downward pressure on wages.

The surge sent the true comparative measure of international wealth, GDP per capita, slipping, especially relative to Australia’s.
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October 29, 2021 11:05am
- mikenmildagain
  
  The government seems to have a very big reform agenda, Jack, with water management, polytechs, the health sector, resource management, and science and research all to be restructured. And while managing the pandemic response too. I can’t help wondering whether sorting out a long-term immigration policy would be a higher priority than some of the other projects
  
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  October 29, 2021 11:34am
Maggie Pie

Listening to ZB earlier.
Must say Kerry Woodham is starting to grow on me.

Heard her earlier exhorting listeners….
“To get the jab. Its absolutely nothing to worry about.”
Reassures a caller that it doesn’t hurt. Tells him…. “even she’s had more pricks than a lap dancer at Showgirls”

LOL!!!
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October 29, 2021 11:29am
- Fletch
  
  How the hell does she know? Just because she hasn’t had an adverse effect when thousands of Kiwis have. I’m sure a needle of cyanide doesn’t hurt too much when it goes in at first either.
  
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  October 29, 2021 11:40am
- graham
  
  Different people have different reactions. This seems like pretty basic common sense to me, but apparently not if Kerre McIvor’s comment is anything to go by.
  
  My wife and I have both had our two jabs, both of us had no reaction or side-effects at all (apart from a slightly sore arm for a day or so). On the other hand I’ve spoken to several colleagues at work who spent the entire day following their second jab sleeping – they were just knocked out. And most of them are quite a bit younger than me.
  
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  October 29, 2021 1:03pm
Over Taxed Worker

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/126822885/covid19-one-person-fills-up-wellingtons-grand-mercure-miq-hotel

Must be the first trial of home isolation for people returning from overseas.
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October 29, 2021 11:33am
- cmm
  
  Ok, I fully agree that if you are having MIQ then a cohort system is far prefered over just mix and match.
  
  But this is over-cohorting only taking people off one flight etc. Having a whole MIQ facility used by one person, and tended by 50 staff, is beyond ridiculous.
  
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  October 29, 2021 11:58am
Master Mariner

Nearly 4 hrs in moderation ?
Starting to think why bother?
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October 29, 2021 11:35am
- Bridgenag
  
  My sentiments exactly… by the time it gets on it is no longer relevant or its time has gone and no longer a starter for others to comment
  
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  October 29, 2021 11:40am
- Flossie
  
  I’m wondering what the problem is too
  
  [Mods are volunteers and have lives and jobs etc to attend to. Mod]
  
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  October 29, 2021 11:41am
  - Ra Henare
    
    Maybe get more Mods who dont have to do all the stuff you alude too.
    
    I am retired (without a life or a job) and happy to volunteer 🙂
    
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    October 29, 2021 5:01pm
Lucia Maria

More on the crazy, anti-democratic power grab from Victoria, Australia:

There are few people in Labor able to speak up against Daniel Andrews | Sky News Australia – video

Labor have removed party oversight.
Labor MPs are scared of speaking up lest it damage their careers

Heated debate in Victoria parliament as Premier Dan Andrews is labelled dictator | Daily Mail Australia – video

Legislation being rammed through in two days containing sweeping new pandemic powers would allow the premier to declare a pandemic for an unlimited time and could see rulebreakers jailed for two years and fined up to $454,350.

Checks and balances are absent under Victoria’s new proposed pandemic bill | Sky News Australia – video

Unbridled power grab in Victoria modelled on NZ & NSW.
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October 29, 2021 11:46am
- kowtow
  
  But apparently he’s still polling strongly .
  
  Unbelievable .
  
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  October 29, 2021 11:50am
  - Lucia Maria
    
    That should be the scariest part of all this – a large part of the population is oblivious.
    
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    October 29, 2021 12:41pm
    - Nickc2
      
      The challenge to Chairman Dan’s power grab. A pretty powerful bunch of Queens Councils eh.
      https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2021/10/queens-counsel-open-letter-condemning-despot-dans-enabling-act.html
      
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      October 29, 2021 1:17pm
- Nickc2
  
  What did NSW have to do with Chairman Dan’s power grab?
  AFIK, he let his people loose like NSW but that’s about all.
  Now, he’s trying to pass a law that will give him total unchallengeable and unaccountable power over all Victorians. That’s pretty much like NZ but nothing like NSW.
  
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  October 29, 2021 12:36pm
  - Lucia Maria
    
    Daniels Andrews has said that he’s used what NSW (and NZ) have done with their laws to inspire his new laws – probably an effort at legitimacy.
    
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    October 29, 2021 3:18pm
graham

Good to see the Herald concentrating on the important things in NZ – a story posted at 11:11, talks about the Prime Minister scolding Neve (dressed as Wonder Woman) for sneaking out of the house without permission to play on the new trampoline.

Give me strength …
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October 29, 2021 11:54am
- Flossie
  
  Get me a bucket!
  The news came via our “First Man” … a tweet or something.
  
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  October 29, 2021 12:08pm
  - graham
    
    Didn’t Clarke Gayford tweet something a few weeks ago to the effect that he had a little girl who was missing her mother? Seems they found a way around the Auckland border rules …
    
    I certainly don’t begrudge them being able to be together, but at a time when we are hearing multiple stories of people being denied exemptions when close family members are literally about to die, I can’t help but think that this seems a classic case of “one rule for you lot, another rule for ME!”
    
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    October 29, 2021 1:07pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Empty that bucket first
    
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    October 29, 2021 1:19pm
lifesgood

What I find absolutely shocking is the number of people who still think the sun shines out of Jacinda’s back side. Are there that many insane people in this country? I mean, really? It is frightening. Or are they paid to put positive comments up on social media? There has to be an explanation.
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October 29, 2021 11:56am
- Nickc2
  
  Have a headcount in Frazer House basement and check their non de plumes used on this and other websites.
  
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  October 29, 2021 12:45pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Can’t comment about any social media commentary, but you’d almost think something contrived is going on in the media.
  
  Audrey Young’s weekly political summary is utterly fawning of the Government’s recent efforts (esp Hipkins) while stating Judith Collins had a shocker of a week (of course). Mahuta is now showing us what she’s made of and Three Waters is all about the ratepayers to howls of protest from the Councils!
  
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  October 29, 2021 1:43pm
  - Bridgenag
    
    How many are beavering away for the cause in some dark room countering all adverse comments ……anywhere Didn’t the numbers of spin doctors go up…
    
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    October 29, 2021 2:07pm
- Gravelroad
  
  @lifesgood:
  Had coffee today with friend who has been a confirmed member of the Jacinda cult.
  Wouldn’t hear a word against her, worshipped at her feet – until now.
  Jacinda is hopeless apparently – and a dictator!!
  Whether that view will be reflected in future media- driven popularity polls remains to be seen, of course.
  I’m picking not.
  Polls too easily manipulated to suit the funder.
  
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  October 29, 2021 2:21pm
- Humble Capitalist
  
  Comrade’s fanclub have been dropping like flies in the last week
  
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  October 29, 2021 3:38pm
- geodon
  
  It certainly does not shine out of her cold, dark eyes
  
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  October 29, 2021 5:52pm
Captain Mainwaring

Went to Wellington hospital for a routine appointment yesterday.
Man on the front desk insisted on watching me scan in my phone. No that’s not enough, he then demanded to see my phone screen to see that it actually happened.
Fecking ridiculous.
Then I got fined $65 for accidentally parking in a staff carpark. Not the best day I’ve had this week.
Next time I’ll go in the bus.
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October 29, 2021 12:01pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Honestly Capt’n, when you consider the alternative, I’d say it was 65 bucks well spent 😀
  
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  October 29, 2021 12:17pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Don’t scan. Sign in as Donald Duck, Hollywood, then ask them to prove you are not Donald Duck.
  Phone? Don’t be silly, ducks don’t have phones.
  Communism is creeping further into Govt departments
  
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  October 29, 2021 1:23pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Sign in as Lesko Brandon
    
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    October 29, 2021 1:35pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      That’s it next time. Lefties prob too thick to understand that
      
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      October 29, 2021 2:26pm
JohnnyOverton

Breaking news; I just had a chat with the ChCh organizer of the upcoming Groundswell protest & it’s now obvious, there’ll be no collaboration with the likes of me.

Not surprised really, as I’m now of the view that they represent the establishment & self interest & my ‘United We Stand in Defence of NZ’ against the He Puapua agenda position is much more radical, so there’s no common ground.

There organistion is big, well organised & funded & the ChCh mayor & all the local bigwigs will speak at their protest on the 21st of November.

This all means it’s pointless to go ahead with my more organic ‘No to 3 Waters rally on the 14th of November, so I’m cancelling these plans.

I haven’t spoken in the ChCh square for yonks, but if the spirit moves me I may just pop into the square on the 14th for a bit of a rave anyway?
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October 29, 2021 12:05pm
Frank the tank

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-gives-wonder-woman-a-right-telling-off/ICQAGBSGJE5WYBHYRR2VX3G2CY/

Must be big numbers today. Nobody was any guts to put their name to this story I see.
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October 29, 2021 12:25pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Jethro had better tie that trampoline down before the next big Northerly hits.
  
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  October 29, 2021 2:18pm
Maggie Pie

Not sure where our idiot Mayor gets his information from, but I see he’s reported as saying….

“What a magnificent effort Aucklanders made over the last fifteen months, saving something like 20 Billion liters of water during the restrictions imposed because of the city’s critically low Dam levels.”

Well how come then, when I check our Watercare bills for the same period, our usage went UP by 30%?
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October 29, 2021 12:38pm
- cmm
  
  Your white guilt has increased in that time…
  
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  October 29, 2021 2:05pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Water costs more now since we were forced to stop mining it …//
  
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  October 29, 2021 2:29pm
plc

Last night there was a news item re fossil finds at Watercare drill site in Auckland.

Then had to endure the ‘journalist” confusing paleontology with archaeology (Maori settlement). Finally we had a special person discussing her mythology.

The scientific process is alive and well in New Zealand /sarc
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October 29, 2021 12:43pm
- I remember when
  
  Yes. I wasn’t sure exactly where the Maori lore/oral history fitted in with the millions of years old shells/fossils.
  Perhaps Maui fished them up with the North Island.
  More likely an ownership suggestion.
  
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  October 29, 2021 2:49pm
oldfella

The Otago Daily Times gets stuck into Labour over 3 Waters.
https://www.odt.co.nz/opinion/editorial/three-waters-so-much-local-democracy
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October 29, 2021 12:44pm
CAKE FACE1

CAKE never found Cindy the Cruel to be at all “kind”.

CAKE has always found her leering, taunting grin to be sinister. The extreme facial movements seem to me to exhibit a psychopathic disposition, full of pleasure when others suffer misfortune.

The pure nastiness with regards to her dealings with the KFC worker awhile back was revealing. There seemed to be an element of racism in her treatment of this civilian.

Now, others seem to be noticing that Cindy the Cruel seems to be enjoying total power a lot. CAKE’s view of Cindy is becoming mainstream.

For example, when she announced the apartheid policies, you could see the glee in Cindy’s face! It wasn’t normal.

Often, people who enjoy torturing people are unspeakable to animals.

I hope Cindy the Cruel doesn’t own any pets.
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October 29, 2021 12:49pm
- mawm
  
  This seems to be a common trait in the socialist premiers in the developed world. It’s the absolute lack of empathy for those whom they have destroyed that to me is the key feature of the psychopathy. Daniel Anderson of Vicdanistan probably is the most obvious.
  
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  October 29, 2021 1:18pm
  - Cinematic
    
    I was reading yesterday he’s about to anoint himself emperor of Victoria.
    
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    October 29, 2021 2:00pm
- rockape
  
  She owned a cat called Paddles, it met an untimely death.
  
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  October 29, 2021 2:23pm
- Scooter
  
  What really happened to paddles?
  
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  October 30, 2021 12:35am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQtQS6n9EiA

Gravitas: The ‘Sinicisation’ of Mosques in China.

China is remodeling mosques to make them appear ‘Chinese’. Domes & Minarets are being replaced by Pagodas. Islamic calligraphy is being replaced by Chinese texts. Palki Sharma gets you a report on this ‘sinicisation’ campaign. [5:54]
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October 29, 2021 1:07pm
curry4me

https://www.bitchute.com/video/ld6jmFEKGO0/

Manchin and Sinema Poised to Switch Parties.

Are Sinema and Manchin about to jump ship and leave the Democrats? It certainly looks like something is up! In this video, we’re going to look at what’s going on, we’re going to see how leftists are utterly freaking out over these two senators refusing to comply with their Marxist schemes, and stick with me to the very end of this video when I’ll reveal why at least one of these senators will almost certainly leave the Democrats very, very soon! [11:43. Let’s go Brandon!]
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October 29, 2021 1:07pm
Stu2

There is a Stuff story looking at when each DHB might hit 90% second dose.

But they have made the assumption that the vaccination rate this week will continue every week. I doubt it. As the less hesitant of the remaining population decide to get vaccinated those left are the even more hesitant and the opposed. The weekly increase will eventually drop.

Even with their optimistic assumption Tairawhiti doesn’t get to 90% second dose until Jan 18. Which means the traffic light system (and its mandatory provisions) are months away for most of NZ. It doesn’t seem thought out.

Requiring all DHBs to reach 90% was always going to result in most of the country waiting for a few DHBs. And perhaps waiting permanently.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126816187/covid19-nz-when-will-each-dhb-reach-the-90-per-cent-full-vaccination-target
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October 29, 2021 1:14pm
- graham
  
  Yep. I’ve heard or read several stories that essentially say the same thing – “based on current vaccination rates, here’s how long it will take to reach 90& first dose/second dose”.
  
  I commented earlier about something else that seemed just so obvious and basic to me, yet it seems that many people – including some so-called “journalists” – need to have the obvious and basic pointed out to them time and time again. As you say, the majority of people who have no qualms or questions about getting vaccinated will by now have been done. As time goes on, the remaining unvaccinated population are more and more likely to be made up of vaccine-hesitant, those completely opposed to the Pfizer vaccine for whatever reason, and so on. Vaccination rates will drop off.
  
  How can supposedly intelligent people not get this?
  
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  October 29, 2021 1:44pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    I don’t really understand why you suppose these journalists are intelligent. Very few in the media show even a basic understanding of logic or statistics.
    But I think the cabinet and the rest of the covid nutters running the country do realize that 90% isn’t happening any time soon on a voluntary basis. Hence the increased coercion by means of vax mandates. That step probably will get us to 90% across almost all DHBs.
    
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    October 29, 2021 2:06pm
- Ehlana
  
  “It doesn’t seem thought out” would make a fine title for a book about this administration Stu2.
  
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  October 29, 2021 3:43pm
Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes

Is the NZ media corrupt or blind to Labours failings?

Exhibit A – https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/10/proposal-for-auckland-light-rail-more-than-10-times-original-cost-well-behind-timeframes.html
Interesting headline. On closer inspecition the auther writes :The Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern promised to build light rail from downtown Auckland to the airport within a decade ahead of the 2017 general election.” Is this horse shit ? Wasnt it supposed ot be built by 2021?

The author (not a jounalist) then writes :Progress on the major transport project was slow-going and then completely stalled last year when Labour’s coalition partner New Zealand First refused to support it.”

That is clearly the new and Govt approved narrative……horse shit. It did not proceed at all (slow going is a bit generous) due to incompetence of Govt ministers than showed Adern as a buck-toothed liar.
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October 29, 2021 1:17pm
Nickc2

Being an Illegal Immigrant in the US pays off big time. Does this fool Biden really know what he’s doing?
More Wet-Backs for the USA!
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2021/10/biden-plans-usd1m-gift-for-each-law-breaking-illegal-immigrant-family.html
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October 29, 2021 1:26pm
- Fletch
  
  It seems like the Dems plan is to bring the country down. And the media are not holding them to account.
  
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  October 29, 2021 2:30pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Biden has no clue, but his puppetiers do
  
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  October 29, 2021 2:33pm
cmm

Does anyone know how sensitive the waste water tests really are?

Now the waste water testing is going off in Chch is that an indication that more than 4 people are involved? What’s the likely number where the test starts to show anything?

Chch waste water does not just process human residential waste water. It also processes some of the water that is drained from the aquifers because Chch is on a swamp. Some of this changed after the EQ though. Thus my understanding is that Chch waste water processes the equivalent of about 500k people’s output rather than just the 300k or so that fall in the area. That should have a further diluting effect.
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October 29, 2021 2:04pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  After a nasal covid test, what happens to the liquids used for testing? Where does it go?
  Answers from experts only please
  
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  October 29, 2021 2:13pm
  - westernScientest
    
    Probably not quite the answer your looking for, but typically in a research lab we will have specific containers which different types of waste chemicals go in (you cant just chuck all reagents into one as you might in inadvertently create an explosion, a poison gas etc.), they are then collected by appropriate people with the right bits of paper, and go to a hazards chemicals disposal. What they do with them I have no idea. A cynical guess is we pay to ship them to a 3rd world country where they are dumped into the sea.
    
    The swab etc would go through an autoclave to ensure it is sterile, then would go into a biohazard specific waste bin, again though I dont know what happens after that.
    
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    October 29, 2021 2:25pm
  - dave_c_
    
    Probably into a DNA bank, such that more coercion and power can be foisted our way.
    
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    October 29, 2021 2:26pm
- westernScientest
  
  obviously take it with a truck full of salt, but I remember either Bloomfield or baker saying that at 10 people they would definitely detect it, and the expected to somewhere around 3-6. This was with respect to positive cases in chch MIQ
  
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  October 29, 2021 2:28pm
  - cmm
    
    Thanks. So that would be consistent with 4 positives then.
    
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    October 29, 2021 4:28pm
Stu2

First dose increase over the last 7 days, for the lowest five DHBs :

Northland 77.0 to 78.2 +1.76
Lakes 78.0 to 79.8 +1.81
Tairawhiti 75.3 to 77.4 +2.14
Whanganui 78.4 to 80.0 + 1.64
West Coast 78.1 to 80.3 +2.23

The not Maori or Pacifica rates are higher. They are closer to their eventual limits, so they are increasing by less than the DHB rate. They will slow up more as they approach their limits, which will probably reduce the weekly DHB increases.

Not Maori or Pacifica changes

Northland 83.2 to 84.4 +1.25
Lakes 85.9 to 87.5 +1.54
Tairawhiti 85.4 to 86.8 +1.35
Whanganui 83.7 to 85.1 + 1.44
West Coast 79.2 to 81.4 +2.21
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October 29, 2021 2:15pm
igm

Well worth a read, and so factual . . .
https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2021/10/28/much-ado-about-water-a-bill-to-shake-up-the-health-system-and-an-investment-in-pot-strictly-for-medicinal-purposes/
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October 29, 2021 2:32pm
Fletch

OUCH!

Watch Ted Cruz give AG Garland a SPANKING!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edk8d0mJt8o
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October 29, 2021 3:19pm
hullkiwi

….from the book on how to waste more public money. We give you a new Ministry. The Ministry for Disabled People, to look after the needs of 1.1 million New Zealanders.

So, apparently just over 1 in 5 Kiwis lives with a disability and we need another Ministry to look after our needs better according to Carmel Septic Tank and a working group that reported last year.

Sorry, this taxpayer wants out!
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October 29, 2021 3:20pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  I look forward to your explanation of what you consider a disability is and how many New Zealanders fit that definition.
  
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  October 29, 2021 6:56pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    Mikey, not my definition. Ask C armel and the clowns who suggest that 1.1million New Zealanders live with a disability. Does every fifth person you know have a disability?
    
    If you include needing glasses, then I have a disability. I would consider this a nonsense, but that is my opinion.
    
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    October 29, 2021 9:41pm
    - graham
      
      Same here. I literally cannot live a normal life without my glasses, I am that myopic. But do I consider myself disabled? Of course not.
      
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      October 29, 2021 10:42pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING SKYNEWS….

Just been watching the former NSW Premier endure a grueling 3 hour cross-examination by the ICAC Prosecutor.

Feel really really sorry for Gladys to be honest.

But sounds like ‘Dodgy Darryl Deadshit’ will be toast.

GOOD JOB!
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October 29, 2021 3:44pm
Cobolt24

Not that I go on Stuffed much but this is disgraceful.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/126812589/wellington-city-councillors-split-retired-colleagues-100k-salary-among-themselves
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October 29, 2021 3:58pm
info@cruzpro.com

Stuff article today: “Your unvaccinated friend is roughly 20 times more likely to give you Covid”.

No proof or references given. Just another scare tactic to create division. No option to provide a response to that article.

Real data from the UK, as already provided by other KB’rs, shows this is false.
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October 29, 2021 5:21pm
- mawm
  
  It is irresponsible of Stuff to print this, unless it is to add fuel to the fire of those blaming the unvaccinated. There can only one source telling them to do so!
  
  Until recently I had a bach in a small coastal town. This town has a facebook page and I have been horrified at the anti Auckland sentiment expressed on it and now lately the vitriol towards the unvaxxed. It is one of the reasons I sold up. They don’t like me so I stopped buying local. It’s cheaper to bring stuff from Auckland for the weekend.
  
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  October 29, 2021 6:48pm
Fletch

We all knew this already, of course. But at least they are reporting it in the UK.

Individuals who have had two vaccine doses can be just as infectious as those who have not been jabbed.

Double jabbed people are catching Covid and passing it on to those they live with, warn experts who have studied UK household cases.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59077036

It makes the whole vaccine passport thing pointless. It’s a feelgood nothing.
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October 29, 2021 5:55pm
- MCos
  
  Individuals who have had two vaccine doses can be just as infectious as those who have not been jabbed.
  Even if they have no or few symptoms, the chance of them transmitting the virus to other unvaccinated housemates is about two in five, or 38%.
  This drops to one in four, or 25%, if housemates are also fully vaccinated.
  
  ‘Can be’ it says, not ‘will be’
  
  It’s clear from the article that there are multiple benefits from being vaccinated.
  
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  October 29, 2021 7:06pm
  - fernglas
    
    If one of those benefits is not that it prevents spread, then the only reason for vaccinating kids and having vaccine mandates is to prevent the hospitals from being “overwhelmed” And if those doing the overwhelming are the unvaxxed, then that should be their tough shit
    
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    October 29, 2021 8:26pm
- dcrane
  
  Waiting for someone to figure out if the vaccinated are MORE likely to spread the virus because they are MORE likely to go about normal life with a low-symptom infection.
  
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  October 29, 2021 8:20pm
Maggie Pie

Travel Agent: “Window….or Aisle?”

Me: “Window….or you’ll what?”
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October 29, 2021 6:31pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Were you on the phone, or down at the shop?
  
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  October 29, 2021 6:40pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Bet you’d be a fan of beef jerky wouldn’t ya milkey? 😛
    
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    October 29, 2021 7:23pm
    - graham
      
      Gee, we got a battle of wits where both sides are about as mediocre as each other …
      
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      October 29, 2021 8:28pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Well heres one that will be up your alley gram 😀 😀 😀
        
        When a Clown farts….does it smell funny?
        
        2 2
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        October 29, 2021 9:34pm

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