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October 27, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 27 October 2021

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General Debate

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krazykiwi

While Ardern’s monochromatic Vaxx to the Max™ mantra has been pumped out with enthusiastic support from the rent-an-expert crowd, there are new discoveries that are, in my opinion, denied the attention they deserve presumably because they contradict the narrative of our now quasi-fascist state. I have enumerated three below, and note while that evidence is emerging in respect of each, like all science it is not settled.

❶ The vaccine is non-sterilizing (aka ‘leaky’), meaning it could be helping accelerate viral evolution and subsequent immune escape. The implication here is clear: the more we vaccinate with these non-sterilizing vaccines, the more variants we will be faced with and/or the more quickly they will appear.

❷ Evidence is growing that infected, vaccinated individuals carry a higher viral load than unvaccinated individuals. In this study 82% of asymptomatic vaccinated individuals carried high viral loads, comparted to just 29% of asymptomatic unvaccinated individuals. Symptomatic individuals carried similar viral loads. This may help account for the high rates of infection seen in highly vaccinated populations. It would also destroy the regularly regurgitated suggestion that getting vaccinated helps protect your friends and family. It would appear the reverse could be true.

❸ Despite silence from our health authorities, it is now generally accepted in the medical research community that natural immunity provides stronger, longer lasting protection from subsequent infection. What has recently become visible is evidence that the vaccines may be reducing the effectiveness of the natural immune system response. That would be bad – right? Really bad. There’s a well-constructed summary here, and the phenomena has a rather cool name – Original Antigenic Sin. If evidence of this grows, so too will the alarm that vaccination make be creating a global population that is dependent on regular vaccination in perpetuity.

So… is it possible that vaccination is simultaneously accelerating development of variants, accelerating transmission of the disease, and limiting our body’s natural mechanisms to fight the disease off?

Wouldn’t even a faint possibility of any of these – let alone all three in concert – suggest some circumspection around the Vaxx to the Max™ drive and some state-initiated investigation?

To my untrained eye it appears our current strategies are underpinned by the faulty belief that vaccines are sterilizing when they are not, and that eradication is still possible when it isn’t. So instead of being titivated by case numbers, contact tracing, MIQ, and other futile NPIs, we should instead be promoting the full range of personal preparedness and treatments while boosting hospital capacity in support of the statistically tiny number who will still need it.
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October 27, 2021 8:00am
- Andrei
  
  I don’t think it is about the vaccine at all – it is about the vaccine passport which allows the Government to control where you can and cannot go, what you can and cannot do and who you can or cannot associate with
  
  You know as well as I do once they have these in place they will never go away and the conditions to keep them current will grow
  
  They have been softening us up for this for the past 20 months with lockdowns, the absurd mask mandates and other indignities ands bit by bit they are implementing their tyranny
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:08am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    What we are seeing is an out of control totalitarian goverment consolidating power.
    
    Once they have total control they will not relinquish it.
    
    A compliant population addicted to their kindness, with ongoing regular life saving drugs.
    
    Make a great movie plot.
    
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    October 27, 2021 8:27am
  - Rich Prick
    
    I’ve been looking at what I can no longer do without my “papers”. It’s a staggering list. Cindy will need a Brown Shirt brigade a bit stronger than retailers and entertainment venue staff though. That’s her plan’s weak point.
    
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    October 27, 2021 10:27am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Is there a reason she is cuddling up to the gangs?
      
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      October 27, 2021 11:47am
      - Rich Prick
        
        Good point, the Northland checkpoints seemed to work.
        
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        October 27, 2021 12:06pm
      - sooty
        
        It’s not a vacine passport but the first roll out of the national identity card!
        
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        October 27, 2021 2:18pm
      - Nickc2
        
        IMO, it’s either supply or protection. Could even be both.
        
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        October 27, 2021 2:34pm
  - Jim
    
    It’s looking like more a Global Digital ID in my view, that would encompass every aspect of our immense digital footprint: biometric data (fingerprint and facial recognition), security vulnerability data, education and qualifications, employment history, health and congenital data (life insurance anyone?), criminal convictions, finance and tax (all very convenient for the imminent introduction of CBDC), even internet search history, all establishing a foundation for government societal control (social credit system) to nudge us into better behaviour and let’s not forget the multinational corporations share price. In essence Orwell’s 1984. More believable than eradicating child poverty blah blah
    
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    October 27, 2021 5:54pm
    - Batman
      
      Have you ever worked in central government?
      
      You’re massively overestimating its capabilities.
      
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      October 27, 2021 6:39pm
      - Jim
        
        Yes I certainly agree, kiwi build anyone lol. Despite the widely publicised leaky vaccine efficacy, this sham digital ID is happening in Canada, France, Italy, Portugal, Scotland, Ireland, Wales etc etc. It only makes sense that a government is simply a legitimate front for the big tech corporations et al who want a more integrated data harvesting system that reciprocally assist government with tax collection, law and order etc but ultimately maintaining power and control.
        
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        October 27, 2021 7:58pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Others agree:
  https://www.globalresearch.ca/fully-vaccinated-suffering-far-higher-rates-infection-than-unvaccinated-getting-worse/5759817
  
  This has been an established position for some months. I don’t find it very encouraging.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:09am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Agreed. But the high rates of vaccination and infections could previously have been dismissed as a correlation. There not now emerging evidence of causation, and that’s a huge worry.
    
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    October 27, 2021 8:19am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      I wonder if this level of research is even allowed in new Zealand.
      
      Anti body tests of vaccinated and unvaccinated.
      
      Certainly all anti body testing kits have been banned from very early on.
      
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      October 27, 2021 8:37am
      - Jim
        
        Would there be any plausible (non conspiratorial) reason why such kits were removed from NZ market?
        
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        October 27, 2021 9:46am
      - Matt Long
        
        Indeed, why were antibody tests banned except to give the Government more control?
        Given natural immunity is more effective than the Pfizer vaccine, offering a test ahead of a vaccine would be a normal practice for a Government with integrity.
        Further, large scale random antibody testing of unvaccinated people would have given proper data on infection rates, hospital admissions as a percentage of infections and case fatality rates, not to mention an informed roadmap for opening up the country.
        It concerns me that my community may not be exposed to Covid before next winter and will then face dangerous viral loads.
        
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        October 27, 2021 10:49am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    So where are the hard questions from our media.
    
    If the government and their health advisers aware of this research, or is it all misinformation.
    
    Remember “the only truth is the truth we tell you” anything else is misinformation, remember vaccine mandates were misinformation and it was reinforced by naming and discrediting the people that talked about it, and here we are mandatory vaccinations.
    
    Is the science really settled, if you can’t question it then it is not science.
    
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    October 27, 2021 8:34am
    - Geoff1
      
      The absence of hard questions might be something to do with the Guidelines
      https://d3r9t6niqlb7tz.cloudfront.net/media/documents/210429_PIJF_General_Guidelines_f4RtoKG_cRdUBNy_cLXUAKM.pdf
      
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      October 27, 2021 12:19pm
      - sooty
        
        Or it might have more to do with the money payed!
        
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        October 27, 2021 2:45pm
- PhilBest
  
  There are people who are not crazy and ignorant – i.e. well credentialled experts – who have been saying for a while that this could turn into “a self inflicted biological catastrophe for humanity”.
  
  To the official experts who are assuring us, no, we got this, we know it is perfectly safe, I ask – who killed God and gave you his job?
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:10am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Covid?
    
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    October 27, 2021 8:25am
    - PhilBest
      
      The vaccines
      
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      October 27, 2021 9:06am
  - Reid
    
    Yeah, they’re referring to the possibility of a super-virus developing as a result of what is called ADE (Antibody Dependant Enhancement).
    
    As krazy says above, the vax confers narrow spectrum immunity to only a single virus protein, the spike protein. This is only a small part of the total viral genome and normally what your immune system does when it encounters a foreign body is rip it apart and essentially take “photos” of all kinds of fragments of the body’s genome and that’s how those stored photos can be used years or decades later to recognise a new attack by that foreign body. But in this case with this vaccine induced immunity, your system only recognises a single fragment, this is why it’s called narrow spectrum immunity.
    
    The problem with narrow spectrum immunity is it increases the potential for ADE. A virus wants to do one thing: replicate. So it constantly searches for ways to find itself a host where it can replicate more efficiently. Due to evolution, normally what a virus will do in this process is to evolve into a less-lethal version of itself, so it can infect more hosts. If you have an environment where you have a lot of potential hosts with narrow spectrum immunity, this pressure to make itself less lethal is reduced. Whether ADE is in fact happening is still open question – needs research. But the variants only started after the vaccination programs started rolling out overseas, and this Delta variant seems to have an only slightly reduced lethality, which is a sign ADE might be happening.
    
    The risks of ADE if it arises are catastrophic and is why we have never in history attempted vaccine-induced immunity into the teeth of a pandemic.
    
    A super virus could arise based on the conditions this vaccine has generated if a future evolution of the virus includes a mutation of the spike protein. If that happens the virus will find an army of hosts in which to infect against which your immune system will be of no use because it’s only looking to combat foreign bodies which have the spike protein and it will ignore bodies which have a mutated version of it.
    
    This is not a conspiracy theory, this is virology 101, and if you want to learn more, just type in “Malone ADE” in duck duck or Rumble and look at any of his vids. There are many expects talking about this including here in NZ.
    
    Booster shots are being required BTW because not only is the vax narrow spectrum, it is also non-durable. In other words the immunity it confers does not last long. Israel studies they used to inform their decision to mandate a 3rd booster shot indicated I think that it lasts for about six months, so expect around March for NZ to be requiring people to take a booster.
    
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    October 27, 2021 9:49am
    - waikatosinger
      
      At this point it is certain that we are all going to get this disease. The sooner we get it the better. We want to get it before the vaccine loses its effectiveness. We want to get it before winter arrives. And ain’t none of us getting any younger, so the sooner the better in that regard as well.
      
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      October 27, 2021 11:26am
      - Reid
        
        I personally prefer not to turn my immune system into a lifelong subscription service so my plan is to combat an infection with the known effective therapeutics of which there are many. The vaccine is being marketed as the only possible solution, but it’s not.
        
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        October 27, 2021 12:17pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Great comment, Reid. Nice to see you around these parts again.
      
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      October 27, 2021 12:05pm
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Welcome to another day of lockdown tyranny.
  
  I am so over all this lockdown madness.
  
  We could well be creating an environment where we have compromised our immune system to the extent that we have to take some sort of immune boosting treatment for the rest of our lives.
  
  Who would benefit from this, follow the money.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:19am
- Nickc2
  
  Everything you wanted to know about Pfizer (the company) but were afraid to ask.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYIJxoh7gqw
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:19am
  - Geoff1
    
    And Violations since 2000 $4,660,896,333
    https://constitutionwatch.com.au/pfizer-violation-tracker-parent-company-summary/
    
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    October 27, 2021 12:26pm
- dannz
  
  1. This is far from proven, and this data is more likely to be a result of low testing in the UK in my opinion.
  
  2. This study is from Winconsin, therefore it is probably confirming that natural infection is superior at preventing reinfection, rather than that vaccines make things worse? They don’t appear to mention if they excluded people with natural immunity?
  
  3. In my opinion, we are better to have regular mild infection like a cold, than to have one potentially fatal serious case.
  
  In summary, all of these are technically possible but unlikely to result in significant serious problems.
  
  In my opinion they still come nowhere near changing the balance to the point where getting Covid unvaccinated is better than getting the vaccine.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:26am
- cmm
  
  ” Evidence is growing that infected, vaccinated individuals carry a higher viral load than unvaccinated individuals. In this study 82% of asymptomatic vaccinated individuals carried high viral loads, comparted to just 29% of asymptomatic unvaccinated individuals. ”
  
  Yup, this is a point I speculated about yesterday. Thanks for finding some numbers behind it.
  
  The vaccine at least partially improves outcomes by suppressing symptoms. Therefore people will feel less sick and go out and about while infected (and infectious) rather than stay at home.
  
  On top of this, people have been led to believe that the vaccine makes them and everyone safe. This modifies behaviour. People who are vaccinated will think they can safely go to work etc when they feel a bit sick.
  
  Of course when this goes pear shaped we know the unvaccinated untermenchen will be thrown under the bus and the vaccinated will go blameless.
  
  Still, bring it on I say. The sooner we get on with it the better. The sooner we can stop shoveling debt onto our kids and grandkids.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:27am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    One thing is sure we will have 2 classes of citizens.
    
    Vaccinated and unvaccinated.
    
    The vaccinated waiting for the unvaccinated to die and the unvaccinated waiting for the vaccinated to die.
    
    The majority will be heroes and the minority villains.
    
    Regardless of who is right.
    
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    October 27, 2021 8:42am
    - cmm
      
      I think you are way oversimplifying it and thus getting it wrong.
      
      I think there are at least 3 classes of people:
      * The feared up pro-vaxxers who think the vax is a silver bullet.
      * The feared-up anti-vaxxers who think the vax is a bullet in the head.
      * The people in the middle who are are information based and look at risk vs reward according to individual risk assessments and get vaxxed (or not) accordingly.
      
      I’m in the last group.
      
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      October 27, 2021 9:11am
      - waikatosinger
        
        Me too. And although I have had the vaccine I will shred the bloody certificate and stand with the unvaxxed.
        
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        October 27, 2021 11:23am
      - Romney
        
        Same. It seems to me this is a really radical medical treatment that gives partial protection against a fairly non-serious disease.
        
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        October 27, 2021 1:00pm
      - cmm
        
        PS: Although I choose not to get THIS vax for myself, I will eviscerate any cocksmoker that refers to me as “anti-vax”
        
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        October 27, 2021 2:13pm
      - Surely Knott
        
        I think you missed some classes:
        * The people in the middle who had the vax but not for health reasons, but so they could keep their job or travel or go to shops or get a haircut, to return to “normal”.
        * The people who believe that the key point is not the lab leak, the virus or the vaccine but the passport which will be expanded beyond a simple vaccine passport. That we won’t be “returning to normal” That it will be Build Back Better and their is more to come, World Economic Forum, Banks Digital Money etc.
        
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        October 27, 2021 5:39pm
  - Cinematic
    
    And the sooner this Labour government can stop hiding behind the covid excuse whilst they pursue a swift deconstruction of our society.
    
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    October 27, 2021 8:45am
  - krazykiwi
    
    On top of this, people have been led to believe that the vaccine makes them and everyone safe.
    
    This started with welfare. No need to work. The state will look after my economic needs. Personal agency diminished as bit.
    
    Then with housing. No need to save to buy, or respect some else’s property. The state will look after my housing needs. Personal agency diminished as bit further.
    
    Now with health. No need to do anything proactively, just take the jabs. The state will look after my body. And at that point personal agency has completely vanished and your very existence owed to that state.
    
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    October 27, 2021 8:48am
    - artemisia
      
      ”That state” aka the diminishing pool of taxpayers.
      
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      October 27, 2021 8:55am
    - cmm
      
      Even in health, most people are very crap patients.
      
      According to some studies only 50% of patients take their meds properly, and that is with a very sketchy/loose definition of properly.
      
      If a patient takes 80% of their meds then that is considered “full adherence”.
      
      “Patients are generally considered adherent to their medication if their medication adherence percentage, defined as the number of pills absent in a given time period (“X”) divided by the number of pills prescribed by the physician in that same time period, is greater than 80% ”
      
      If people can’t even be bothered to take pills, then stuff em.
      
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3068890/
      
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      October 27, 2021 9:06am
    - kowtow
      
      The universal benefit is another one of the latest fashionable toutarounds.
      
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      October 27, 2021 9:14am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        That’s their holding costs while they decide what to use you for or recycle you.
        
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        October 27, 2021 10:44am
  - PhilBest
    
    Maurice de Hond’s website has more and more of these arguments every day – the vaccines do not eliminate risk, and a false sense of security means people are going places and doing things where the risk factor swamps the vaccine protection.
    
    https://www.maurice.nl/2021/10/26/coronadoolhof/
    
    https://www.maurice.nl/2021/10/26/zwaaien-met-je-koekenpan-zwaaien-met-je-onderbroek/
    
    https://www.maurice.nl/2021/10/19/de-schijnveiligheid-van-de-coronapas-in-de-praktijk/
    
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    October 27, 2021 8:50am
- Simon
  
  Vaxx mandates NZ’s very own Enabling Act. The Maori in caucus have clearly been paid off. MSM instructed to talk to particular business owners who are pro vaxx mandates. MSM on board with Enabling Act.
  
  Clear push to have the marginalized at around 10% of the population. The lower the better for the vaxxholes.
  
  National party utterly docile.
  
  The mandates attack youth attempting to enter workforce and those already recently employed.
  
  Clear attempt to widen the vaxx mandates to all major employers. A lot easier given the above. Say cant go to university unless vaxxed.
  
  This all ends when Ardern has gone. Winter 2022 will be a shit show.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:39am
  - mawm
    
    National has given no indication that they would reverse any vaxx mandates so I would not be sure that this ends.
    
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    October 27, 2021 12:06pm
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      National, if they had a clue, would, at the very least, not being saying anything in support of anything Ardern is doing re: Covid, then sweep into power when it all inevitably turns pear-shaped (either severe medical complications from the vaccine and/or the civil unrest that will eventuate once it becomes clear to more people that they have been lied to about the ongoing and indefinite nature of vaccine “treatments”). Instead, they are advocating exactly what Labour are, with minor tweaks, meaning that National will have as little remaining credibility as Labour when the shit hits the fan.
      
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      October 27, 2021 7:36pm
- freemark
  
  It’s a clusterf**k in more ways than that.
  If (when actually) the masses cottoned on to the fact that the Virus wasn’t leaving bodies piling up in street they may start to reflect on what’s been lost, for little. Cindy (& others) wouldn’t then be seen as as our saviour. In fact quite the opposite. This is why she’s determined that there won’t be any unjabbed control group. The only way we’ll get rid of her is to resist the jab, & fight the mandates.
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:34am
  - Jim
    
    Yep, Jacinda even warned the nation that Delta is searching out the unvaccinated…..oooohhhh……well so far (according to MoH Stats) we now have 4500+ naturally immune kiwis, including many vulnerable groups………but let’s not talk about that (or actual metabolic health promotion) as it won’t scare people enough to sign up for a Pfizer subscription to play Jacinda’s Red Light – Green Light.
    
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    October 28, 2021 4:59am
- mhall
  
  Eugyppius writes excellent articles and his latest two cover Original Antigenic Sin, along with a fascinating discussion age cohort overlapping immunity. Conclusion: mass vaccination of kids is the worst thing we could do.
  
  https://eugyppius.substack.com/
  
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  October 27, 2021 10:21am
  - krazykiwi
    
    This is a great blog. Here’s the link to that post: https://eugyppius.substack.com/p/more-on-original-antigenic-sin-and
    
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    October 27, 2021 1:14pm
- Maxx
  
  An interesting point about viral loads and how they account for spread. The study you link points to a correlation but many more causes need to be reviewed before a definite case is made and therefore taken as fact.
  
  [para deleted, spreading false information – Mod]
  
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  October 27, 2021 10:25am
  - dcrane
    
    [Mods don’t debate. If the poster wants to provide evidence they can do so, until then you are actually on the money mentioning libel issues – Mod]
    
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    October 27, 2021 5:50pm
- Doc Holliday
  
  Where do you find your nonsense, Krazy one.
  
  Even if you have had Covid you should still be vaccinated.
  
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  October 27, 2021 12:35pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    It’s called research Doc. It differs from swallowing the official narrative hook, line and sinker as you hilariously have been doing for many years.
    
    As for ‘you should still be vaccinated’, none of my recently acquired knowledge of how anti-N antibodies and anti-S antibodies operate suggests this to be sensible.
    
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    October 27, 2021 3:42pm
  - Jim
    
    What? Please explain the logic behind that statement.
    
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    October 27, 2021 8:16pm
    - crackle
      
      The short version, is double vaccination appears to limit how your immune system deals with the virus. Focussing on the spike protein as trained this seems to be having a negative effect on the antibodies you would normally produce which should be kind of an all of virus antibody system.
      The big risk with this is that a slightly different strain will avoid the narrow antibody response and you’re immune system wont deal with it effectively. If this happens we’re in the shit in a big way and as it stands Covid has a few billion hosts to mutate if one pops up that gets around the vax its open season.
      
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      October 27, 2021 9:03pm
Warren

Politics shows out all the hypocrites out there as a top Chef backs Jacinda Arderns call on unvaccinated people not being able to go where vaccinated people vaccinations are allowed and Staff being mandated for in jobs like Restaurants before they are allowed employment.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-miq-schools-and-vax-mandates-on-list-of-sweeping-covid-reforms/DIW6BIOYVJWJG43YSNVGDJRYQU/
Surprise, surprise this is Peter Gorden the same Chef charged with Jacinda Ardern and Clarke Gayfords wedding , how compromising is that.
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October 27, 2021 8:00am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  For the un-vaccinated it might be a good thing that they will not be allowed to mingle with the vaccinated since the vaccinated are more likely to be infected.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:32am
- G152
  
  But but but its different when the left do it
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:33am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  So we get medical advice from a cook now.
  
  Do you think a general on the battlefield consults with the cook about strategy.
  
  What do you think cook, should we take that hill over there.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:47am
- stroker08
  
  Besides biased media reporting, the reason that you havent heard or seen any “red-mist” outrage from the hospo industry, is that the majority who work in the industry are generally left-leaning, Labour / Green voters. They voted for this.
  
  I hope they reconsider their position at the next election.
  
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  October 27, 2021 11:02am
- mawm
  
  Quite simply never ever go to a Peter Gordon restaurant again even if he changes course. Stick to your principles and remember what he was prepared to do to you.
  
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  October 27, 2021 12:12pm
Captain Mainwaring

Watched a bit of the house moving show fronted by Gayford.
I have to say that he seems to be the sort of guy that I could probably enjoy having a beer with.
That is until his partner turns up.
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October 27, 2021 8:00am
- pdm
  
  `
  Watched a bit of the house moving show fronted by Gayford.’
  
  I must say Capt – you are a braver man than I
  gunga din.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:11am
  - Jim
    
    Ohh the irony how Jacinda’s other half is also fronting something that could be entitled: Build Back Better. Shame Gayford’s BBB is more environmentally sustainable (up cycling), promotes small business success and 100% builds happy kiwi families.
    
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    October 27, 2021 8:24pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  I gave Gayford the benefit of the doubt. He’s a learner in that role. He doesn’t even speak clearly. Basically OK, but it does suggest he is being promoted.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:13am
  - Flossie
    
    I think we all know how he was the one to get this gig.
    
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    October 27, 2021 8:40am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      He’s not too bad and had been around the TV production industry for some years(?) .
      
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      October 27, 2021 10:46am
    - Rich Prick
      
      And Hunter Biden is an artist. It’s all graft.
      
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      October 27, 2021 11:06am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    I hear he is very good at nanny speak.
    
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    October 27, 2021 8:49am
- amospicton
  
  It’s appalling that state funded TVNZ chose Gayford to front this program. How was he selected? Is he being paid fairly? How would you feel if you applied and were overlooked for the PM’s bloke? No corruption in NZ….
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:50am
  - Ruahine
    
    amospicton
    “Is he being fairly paid”
    I suspect he is being overpaid.
    
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    October 27, 2021 9:22am
  - ecco
    
    I think it’s called nepotism. Would be interesting to know how much he’s getting paid for this gig.
    
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    October 27, 2021 10:42am
    - Bridgenag
      
      Talking about payments. There is information somewhere showing the huge salaries alot of the Auckland council are getting. $700,000p.a. for water blokes etc… Anyone got it to hand?
      
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      October 27, 2021 1:24pm
- namron
  
  Clarke Gayford’s acting career began in 1988 when he played the leading man character – Jack Pumpkinhead in the Gisborne Junior Operatic Group – “APPLAUSE” s production of “Return to the Land of Oz.”
  From the Gisborne Herald’s review of the show – “Jack Pumpkinhead is ably played by Clarke Gayford. His voice carried well from inside his pumpkin head.”
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:31am
peterwn

Air New Zealand is pessimistic that Auckland will come out of Level 3 by early December. They have just unilaterally cancelled my 1 December Wellington to Auckland flight.
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October 27, 2021 8:00am
- alex Masterley
  
  That is my thinking as well.
  I am supposed to be going to Central Otago to help with a sailing event in the new year. Cant see that happening at the moment.
  I also think Wings over Wanaka is looking dodgy at the moment as well.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:37am
  - sooty
    
    Bugger them, drive!
    
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    October 27, 2021 2:53pm
- Mr_Blobby
  
  They did the same with us this month, Wellington and Christchurch.
  
  I have a travel document and can travel with a negative test.
  
  Next month I doubt it as I am not vaccinated a negative test should be all that is required but I doubt it.
  
  Question are all our members of Parliament vaccinated?
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:53am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Get vaccinated you silly bugger.
    It’s not just about you.
    And no, I’m not a Cindy fan but I do agree with her on this one.
    
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    October 27, 2021 9:26am
    - freemark
      
      Do you have any idea of actually how dangerous this virus is? The increasing evidence of how pointless (& possibly detrimental to public health) this mass jab campaign is?
      At a guess, how many messages designed to promote fear do you think you have been exposed to over the last 18 months? How many signs, how many ads? All with one message… a coordinated message, expensively designed & propagated. Every hour or less, every day, every channel. With it seems one sole purpose – to sign the global population up to a never-ending series of treatments for whatever ailment may come along.
      
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      October 27, 2021 9:59am
  - Bridgenag
    
    Exactly, How many parliamentarians, police and front line workers that were meant to have been jj last year……
    
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    October 27, 2021 10:22am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I suspect they’ve had a heads-up that bad news about covid cases is on the way.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-air-new-zealand-cancels-more-domestic-flights-into-december/RE2UQXJB2NGRIVWIN62B3JOY7M/
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:44am
  - peterwn
    
    Wonder if Air NZ do not want to honour those who purchased cheap fares well in advance so are effectively forcing them to re-book at far higher fares.
    
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    October 27, 2021 10:17am
Scott

Yesterday morning I meandered from Masterton to Palmerston North. The slide into socialism can be seen everywhere.
Rural NZ is fading into poverty, everything in Eketahuna is closed.
Paihiatua is a very quiet little town. The closing of the Manawatu gorge, the compete lack of urgency of building the alternative route. No cafes invite people in. Everywhere covid covid covid. Don’t come in. Stay apart. Wear a mask!

Woodville struggles on. A nice local Cafe struggles on. A husband and wife business, few customers, half the number of tables,has fallen on hard times.

Even in Palmerston North the mall is quiet, people walk around in masks ignoring each other. The shop assistants can barely stir themselves from wearing a mask all day. The Cafe provides no sugar, no water, no napkins.
Even the children’s rides are closed because of “safety”. Whose safety? What possible threat to health does a ride for small children pose?

The only growth area is wind power. Huge wind turbines blight the landscape with their massive industrial ugliness.

This is NZ under level 2. Under socialist rulers who cling to power by fear mongering about Covid. Socialism is sucking the life out of our heartland.
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October 27, 2021 8:00am
- Exclamation Mark
  
  That was nicely written, if depressing. Lots of good stories start that way though.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:20am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The socialist’s job is to slowly destroy NZ so we end up with communism
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:25am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    It has been a work in progress for some time now but it looks like they are succeeding.
    
    Comrade.
    
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    October 27, 2021 8:59am
  - alloytoo
    
    Well, we sunk into fascism yesterday.
    
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    October 27, 2021 9:09am
  - Bridgenag
    
    Trouble is ….there is alot of of puff and wind but little action
    
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    October 27, 2021 10:24am
  - Liberty
    
    Communism in theory is fine. Everyone is equal. Apart from the more equal comrades.
    Whereas Socialism is vile. The State sucks the wealth and prosperity out of the productive sector in the public good.
    
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    October 27, 2021 11:19am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Hmm. Tuesdays are usually fairly quiet in rural & provincial areas; the Tuesday after a long weekend more so. Which is not to say that these areas are not suffering; I just wouldn’t read too much into it.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:28am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  The greens will be loving this, now how do we get rid of those nasty fossil burning cars.
  
  Let’s TAX them to death.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:57am
  - zulumonster
    
    And don’t forget the long game … once they’ve taxed the nasty fossil burning cars to oblivion they will turn they greedy eyes to the electric cars. They will need to keep the coffers topped up somehow!
    And the only people to benefit will be the virtuous upper income types that are imploring everyone to go electric … it’s so much cheaper! Well it’s not economic for a middle to lower income family to go electric right now, so they miss out on the cheap running costs. And by the time electric cars (2nd hand most likely) are within their price range the road user charges will mean running an electric car will be the equivalent of running an ICE car.
    
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    October 27, 2021 10:28am
    - ISeeRed
      
      And power bills will be through the roof. A few extra windmills won’t be enough to recharge a national fleet of EVs.
      
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      October 27, 2021 2:00pm
      - sooty
        
        Nuke them electric cars, so we can cook without having to go outside and use a campfire!
        
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        October 27, 2021 2:58pm
- Aquataur
  
  Reminds me of a visit I made to a former Soviet republic.
  Guess that’s the aim of it all
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:34am
- Sacha
  
  Pahiatua is doing fine. It is a small rural town with a proud history, and its main businesses provide rural services. It is very well run, and has recently completed full renewal of underground services, and the Central Park is being replanted. There are plans for a new full-sized swimming pool and fundraising is ongoing for a new St John’s ambulance depot with accomodation for on-call staff.
  You will not see gangs of idle teenagers lolling around the shopping centre. Children are well mannered and seem to listen to their parents, and if they live rurally, they are kept busy with jobs at home. Teenagers who leave school seem to get directed into some sort of employment fairly quickly until they start tertiary study.
  While there are some empty shops, these are not new – some have been closed up for decades. And if you ventured into the back streets you might be surprised at the amount of industrial activity.
  Property prices have escalated, and houses are snapped up rapidly as workers in PN rebel against the high rates. They don’t mind the 35 minute drive to PN over the Track. I know of at least 3 lifestyle subdivisions approved in the last 2-3 months, and they are selling well.
  No, Pahiatua is doing just fine. In spite of the government.
  (And the new highway from Ashurst to Woodville is well under way. The earthworks have to allow for several fault lines, native bush, sacred Maori land, wetlands, a big bridge – and achieve a gradient that heavy traffic can manage. You can watch a flyover on YouTube – )
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:55am
- Liberty
  
  Didn’t Dear Leader promise to fast track the Manawatu gorge road In 2017
  Not sure if that promise was before or after the high-speed train to Tauranga.
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/95203482/labour-promise-alternative-route-to-manawatu-gorge-as-fast-as-possible
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/08/labour-promises-high-speed-auckland-tauranga-passenger-train.html
  
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  October 27, 2021 10:55am
Kiwi_in_Paris

The final revolution. Sound familiar? It should do by now.

“There will be, in the next generation or so, a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing dictatorship without tears, so to speak, producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them, but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods. And this seems to be the final revolution.”

Aldous Huxley, author of Brave New World, 1894-1963
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October 27, 2021 8:01am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Has it started?
  https://www.wnd.com/2021/10/exposed-inhumane-lethal-covid-protocol-hospitals/
  
  How do we know our hospitals are not following rigid protocols–mindlessly?
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:16am
- Bluegrass
  
  Indeed. We have moved on from 1984.
  
  Aldous Huxley was in a way far more perceptive than Orwell.
  
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  October 27, 2021 1:38pm
Andrei

~~Lest~~ How quickly we forget.

Those who gave their lives in WW2 are spinning in their graves
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October 27, 2021 8:01am
- doggone7
  
  Rolling round about how tough we think we’ve got it compared to what they went through.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:33am
- RF
  
  Andrei…. This is no longer the country that my father fought for in WW2 and was shipped home full of shrapnel.
  
  It is also no longer the country that I grew up in and loved.
  
  Sadly it is a country that is run by a Marxist bitch who is causing irreparable damage to it.
  
  Sorry Judith we need a strong and credible opposition so on your bike.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:39am
  - miltonF
    
    Judith is extremely disappointing. We can all understand Jacinda’s evil actions as she is a communist/national socialist at heart. But Judith? Why are you supporting Marxism and the removal of individual human rights? You should be ashamed. That’s right. On yer bike. You better hope that we never meet on the street.
    
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    October 27, 2021 9:55am
- Jim
  
  Agree 100%….we are all responsible for our own lives, making the best of our genetic disposition, determining our lifestyle choices and accepting the resultant health implications.
  Yet here we are in 2021 with a largely lazy and overweight population cowering in the face of a virus with an Infection Fatality Rate marginally worse that seasonal influenza (see UK ONS or CDC) and people want to HIDE BEHIND HEALTHY CHILDREN 5-11 years olds (who are not at serious risk) by vaccinating them to protect the weak!? Shameless cowardice.
  
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  October 28, 2021 5:15am
Benedict Yu

After much time reading about the declining efficacy of the vaccine in protecting against infection, I am now sceptical about vaccinating young children. Yes, I recognise I have previously expressed support for such vaccination. However I am always prepared to change my view in light of evidence. A trait that would have been valuable in our leader when the evidence showed that the “elimination strategy” was the wrong path.

Latest news on vaccines for children….It seems almost certain that the FDA will shortly approve the pediatric version of the Pfizer vaccine for children aged 5 to 11. This will be an Emergency Use Authorisation.

https://www.statnews.com/2021/10/26/pfizer-covid19-vaccine-kids-vrbpac-fda/

Subject to the approval, the rollout in the USA is scheduled to commence on 3 November with 16 million doses ready to go. All the logistics are in place.

If Medsafe follows previous practice, it will approve vaccines for this age group in New Zealand before Christmas.

The Associate Minister of Health has been pushing vaccines for primary school aged kids. Which seems inappropriate when Pfizer has not even lodged an application with Medsafe. If there has not been an application, how can the Minister explain his rationale for advocating the vaccine?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/126662688/children-aged-5-to-11-could-be-in-line-for-covid19-vaccine-politicians-say

The only rationale for vaccinating young children is that they are highly infectious if they get the virus. That is playing out in the UK now. I was all in favour of vaccinating them for that reason but I am now sceptical.

I am sceptical because if the vaccine efficacy abates after 6 months, you would need to keep on vaccinating them repeatedly. I just don’t see the benefits.

The only rationale for vaccinating young children would be evidence that there are net benefits from protecting them from serious illness and death. That seems a stretch.

It will be interesting to see where the Government lands on this. Opening up this age cohort could mess with their messaging on the 90 percent target. I just can’t see 90 percent of parents vaccinating their young children. Well except Chinese parents. They will be all over it. ?

Finally, I understand that the Pfizer trials of infants under 5 years of age are nearing completion. Apparantly Pfizer intends to split the application to the FDA into two cohorts.

– 2 years and older but younger than 5 years; and

– younger than 2 years but not younger than 6 months.

Apparantly Pfizer hopes to get FDA approval for the first group in early in 2022. (Apologies I can’t find my link for this.).

I would be interested in other views, particularly if you have children or grandchildren in this age group. Do you intend to vaccinate your children? If so I would be interested in your reasons.

If I get time, I will summarise the FDA approval report when it is released.
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October 27, 2021 8:04am
- Cinematic
  
  This is purely a money making venture by Pfizer opening up a huge new market. Vulnerable children are already being vaccinated.
  
  Injecting a bunch of low/no risk kids is unconscionable.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:10am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Where are Pfizer getting the children for trials?
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:18am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Ah good question. They are all volunteered by their parents. And the trials are something like 10 times over subscribed with applications. So no shortage of children.
    
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    October 27, 2021 8:25am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      Does money change hands?
      
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      October 27, 2021 9:05am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        No not at all. On the contrary, parents need to allocated a lot of time to have their kids monitored. parents are so keen to get their kids onto the trial that they spend hours on the website trying to find a place. This is despite there being a 50 percent chance that their kid will get the placebo. (Only half the kids get the vaccine – the other half get a saline shot.)
        
        I read one account of a couple in the USA driving their 6 months old baby across country all night to get her onto a trial.
        
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        October 27, 2021 10:25am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Dunno about children, but Pfizer accused of jabbing Polish orphan babies in Covid trials.
    
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    October 27, 2021 8:28am
  - cmm
    
    There are no end of mamma bears wanting “the best” for their cubs.
    
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    October 27, 2021 8:49am
- kowtow
  
  Vaccinating children to ‘protect’ 85 year old obese folk with any number of other co morbidities from dying a few weeks or at most months earlier is appallingly immoral, what the hell has happened to the “west”.
  
  I’m from the generation that grew up being told the whole point of fighting WW2 was to ensure “never again” and yet the Media and politicians of all stripes are enthusiastically embracing medical experiments on children.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:20am
- PhilBest
  
  There is more risk to children from the vaccine than from Covid. Vaccinating them on the basis that they are “spreaders” is immoral even if true, which I don’t believe. What moral framework ever said “women and children first” into danger?
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:21am
  - Ehlana
    
    Terrorism? Bombing unarmed, defenceless civilian men, women and children without warning seems quite acceptable to them.
    
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    October 27, 2021 10:34am
- krazykiwi
  
  Benedict, we need people like you in leadership… prepared to alter views based on evidence. Kudos, sir.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:24am
- Exclamation Mark
  
  I have a niece that has spent a lot of time in Starship with congenital health issues. The advice from the doctors at Starship is that covid would be potentially life threatening for her.
  She will be getting vaccinated along with her siblings as soon as they are able to be – not because her parents think this will give her complete protection but because it reduces the chance of her getting covid (they can’t keep her siblings home from school forever) and potentially reduces the effects if she does get it. If your child was in this position, you should and most likely would take the advice of your medical professionals – why wouldn’t you?
  
  Having to get a vaccine every six months is not even a minor inconvenience for them considering what else she has been through and really no different to getting the flu vaccine every year, which she already gets.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:30am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “The advice from the doctors at Starship is that covid would be potentially life threatening for her.”
    
    I don’t know what the down ticks are about – of course in her case she should be vaccinated.
    
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    October 27, 2021 9:14am
    - Exclamation Mark
      
      Yes, its fucking ridiculous and the reason why I almost never bother discussing the vaccines online – it has become so polarised now that some people seem to think vaccinating very vulnerable children like my niece is an affront to their own freedom.
      
      There was a story on Newshub over the weekend about a girl in Wellington who has had a heart transplant and her parents are wanting clarity over when the vaccine would be available to under 12 year olds. The facebook comments were an absolute shit show of people questioning the mothers parenting skills and saying that she needed to do her research on the vaccines – as if the mother of a child who has spent literally years in and out of hospitals in NZ and Australia, talking to some of the most highly qualified pediatric medical specialists any where in the world, is “doing her research” based on some links offered by clowns on facebook.
      
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      October 27, 2021 9:33am
    - surfing
      
      The downticks are from anti-vaxxers.
      
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      October 27, 2021 10:13am
      - Lucia Maria
        
        There are enough trolls here to create those downticks, don’t be so quick to blame.
        
        Have experienced this myself, it doesn’t matter what comment I make, I get downticks if the trolls notice that I’ve posted.
        
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        October 27, 2021 11:18am
    - hookerphil
      
      Perhaps it was this bit “because it reduces the chance of her getting covid ” –
      
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      October 27, 2021 1:15pm
  - Sacha
    
    That is a tragedy, and I would hate to be in those shoes. But are the congenital health issues immune system related or respiratory? If not, the there doesn’t seem a need for vaccination – presumably her siblings would bring the infection home and the parents would nurse them through any illness.
    That’s how infectious diseases used to be handled – everyone in the family got the bug, and then it was in the past. Mostly the symptoms would get milder as each child became sick.
    (When I was a boarding school we had an outbreak of chickenpox, so 4 of us were sent to a farm with the daughter – her parents said that they may as well have five to keep each other company, as one grizzling at home on her own. As I recall we had a great time – )
    
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    October 27, 2021 10:08am
    - Exclamation Mark
      
      Thank you, the problem is respiratory related in part so there is definite need. but what starship say is that children multi organ issues are also vulnerable.
      
      With all due respect, for kids in this position it is not a matter of parents nursing them through illness, something like a tummy bug is a week or two in hospital for these kids as the dehydration that this can result in will cause massive problems to weakened organs. This is not to mention the heavy medication many of these kids are already on – one medicine that necessarily aids a weak or diseased organ can have big side effects that also need to be medicated and sometimes these medicines don’t work well together in some patients – this stuff requires incredibly intensive monitoring which needs the attention of more qualified nurses or doctors.
      
      This is why I am fucking incensed that Labour are not funding the pediatric ICU at Starship to completion instead of making the Starship Foundation have to go fund raising for the $15M needed to get the job done- during a fucking pandemic.
      
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      October 27, 2021 11:49am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        And remember Andrew Little is carrying out a restructure of the entire Health Board framework… in the middle of a pandemic.
        
        This is the Minister who can’t understand why spending on health matters has been so slow
        
        So, what I’m saying is how can we possibly have pumped in billions of extra dollars, and it not appear to have made a difference?’’
        
        https://www.newsroom.co.nz/andrew-littles-hospital-pass
        
        Does he forget that Labour have held the Health budget for over 4 years?
        
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        October 27, 2021 2:13pm
  - Fletch
    
    Hmm, I am not in favour of the vaccine, of course, and I hope your niece gets all the treatment she needs. The only thing I have noticed with the vaccine adverse effects from overseas (and particularly with that Israeli “testimonies” movie) is that many of those who have had adverse effects is that the vaccine seems to target health weaknesses that they thought they had gotten over years ago. One lady had endometriosis that she had spent years getting over through change in diet and lifestyle etc. She hadn’t had problems with it for 4 years but the vaccine brought it all back. Same with some other people. I don’t want to be alarmist, but it seems like the vaccine targets your vulnerabilities, especially health issues of the past.
    
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    October 27, 2021 10:40am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Medical professionals can be very closed minded. Not all, thankfully but it does seem to attract people who like to work to rule.
    
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    October 27, 2021 10:52am
- cmm
  
  BY: “I am sceptical because if the vaccine efficacy abates after 6 months, you would need to keep on vaccinating them repeatedly. I just don’t see the benefits.”
  
  I prefer to look at it with risk vs reward considering the long term, but fearfulness promotes very short term thinking.
  
  Barring a few extreme individual cases, we know that young kids are incredibly unlikely to have bad outcomes from CV19. Therefore it would seem to me that allowing them to encounter the virus and go through natural immunity is a far better investment in their longterm immunity than giving them the jab. We do that for chickenpox, why not CV19?
  
  Even at 59, I prefer the prospect of natural immunity (whatever that brings) as an investment for when I’m 70 and less likely to cope. I prefer not to set myself up to rely on a crutch of 6-monthly vaccinations. By defering the decision, I can also change my mind any time in the future as I move along the risk/reward curve.
  
  BY , while we might at times seem to be at loggerheads I don’t think we really are. You recently disclosed that you had had heart valve surgery. If I was in your boots I’d get vaccinated too.
  
  To me it is all about determining where you are on the risk/reward curve and acting accordingly. I have had atrial fibrillation which is about as low a level heart problem as you can have (about 2 on the scale of 1=paper cut, 10= heart attack). If I had had heart surgery would place myself up the curve at the place where a vaccination makes sense.
  
  A vaccination policy should really be driven by the bang for bucks / Pareto principle/ 80/20 rule or whatever you want to call it. Almost all of the benefit can be had by vaccinating the most at risk. This has the least cost (not just dollars, but also cost in terms of loss of natural immunity etc).
  
  For some reason (perhaps to not be seen to be racist), the government is extremely reluctant to inform people of risk factors.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:48am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Thanks v much for that. The good news is that there was nothing wrong with my heart except that one valve. Once it was replaced with a mechanical valve I was good to go. AFAIK I don’t have a higher risk profile for COVID because of my heart valve.
    
    BTW in New Zealand, children are routinely vaccinated for chickenpox.
    
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    October 27, 2021 8:53am
    - Sacha
      
      One of the long term after effects of chicken pox can be ‘shingles’ (herpes zoster) – which can be very painful and distressing to older people.
      Worth having the immunisation IMO.
      
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      October 27, 2021 10:14am
      - cmm
        
        My understanding is that if you get chicken pox as a kid then you are far less likely to develop shingles later (not impossible, but less likely).
        
        Still, we should not conflate the effectiveness of the chickenpox vaccine (or MMR etc) with the CV19 vaccine as Cindy has done. I think this has a huge potential to backfire.
        
        When the CV19 vaccine proves to be far less effective than Cindy-said, will people then just take on board that vaccines don’t work as promised and stop getting MMRs for their kids?
        
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        October 27, 2021 11:05am
      - mawm
        
        cmm – One has to have had chicken pox to get shingles. The virus lies dormant in a nerve ganglion and gets reactivated, usually at a time of stress and decreased immunity, spreads down the nerve and thus causes the segmental nature of the rash. And before anybody else comments – you are infective when you have shingles.
        
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        October 27, 2021 12:36pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        No it is the opposite. You can ONLY get shingles if you have previously had chickenpox.
        
        https://www.health.govt.nz/your-health/conditions-and-treatments/diseases-and-illnesses/shingles
        
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        October 27, 2021 1:08pm
      - cmm
        
        Thank you to all the kind people that corrected my misunderstanding.
        
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        October 27, 2021 2:16pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @mawm
        most of the articles on shingles will mention stress as being a contributing factor to the triggering of the latent varicella-zoster virus. However I had an outbreak of shingles in my mid-30s in what was a very cruisy period of my life… being a stay-at-home mum with no work commitments (for the first time in about 20 years).
        The week after my shingles cleared up, daughter #1 broke out in chicken-pox blisters…the week after her last scab cleared, daughter # 2 broke out in blisters…..neither had any fever or bother with their scabby blisters.
        
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        October 27, 2021 3:09pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Chickenpox pox was the original cause and source of vaccinations.
      
      I’m sitting on the fence partly because of my peculiar health problems. Apart from age, arthritis, blood pressure and well mannered diabetes I have had an neurological condition for half my life–odd things happen independently without warning.
      
      I can tolerate the risk of the children bringing Covid home but why should I actively seek to meet it? The annual flu jab is trouble enough. For my age I’m seem to be doing better than many and aim to keep good health through traditional means of sunshine, vitamins and love.
      
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      October 27, 2021 11:06am
  - dannz
    
    Kids are vaccinated for chicken pox now.
    
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    October 27, 2021 10:28am
- RoboRob
  
  I’m pro vax and a Pfizer share holder to boot. I can’t see the justification to vax children at the moment. IF a variant arrived that proved more dangerous / harmful to children then sure, but at the moment kids suffer very few symptoms. Why bother.
  
  However I am 100% sure we will go that way. Just like masks, it is a ‘government doing something’ moment. When a wave of covid hits the govt needs to be seen to be doing something, vaxing kids is doing something. Money down the toilet and un-needed risk to our kids for ‘feeelz’.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:58am
- Inandout
  
  BY, I admire your honesty with regard to C19. Just like the rest of us are somewhat confounded by the changing landscape on the efficacy of this vaccine your research and input is refreshing. Thank you.
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:09am
- Iver Mectin
  
  Hi Bene there is a great review by Front line doctors of the Phizzer submission to FDA on under 10’s and basically it is full of BS. Ten red flags you will be able to find it
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:37am
- Aquataur
  
  I posted about this some time ago.
  
  In the UK, at the time of the study quoted, there had been 25 young people (under 16 I think) who had died ‘of’ Covid (ie had returned a positive test within 28 days of death).
  
  Of these, 12 had significant comorbidities, including at least 1 who was already in ICU for other reasons.
  
  So 13 deaths (not all of which would have been caused by Covid) in a population of around 12m in that age group in the UK – about 1 in a million.
  
  So we want to vaccinate children, for whom the vaccine provides a benefit/risk ration of less than 1 (before we add in the unknown effects) to help an older population. This is both immoral and unethical.
  
  In addition, the JCVI (Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisaton) in the UK, their scientific body providing advice on the vaccine, specifically did not recommend the vaccine for under 16 yr olds – citing that the risks outweighed the benefits. Advice that was overturned by the UK Chief Medical Officer who said he had a wider perspective to consider – ie political not scientific.
  
  You have to wonder what is the underlying reason for this descent into madness
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:50am
  - Iver Mectin
    
    It is all about either money or control definitely not science
    
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    October 27, 2021 11:17am
  - dannz
    
    The risk benefit is not less than 1.
    Covid still kills more children than the vaccine does.
    
    There are unknowns, but my logic suggests the possibility that they haven’t already appeared is very low after so many millions of doses given.
    Further, there are also unknown long term effects from contracting an experimental wuhan virus.
    
    However the level of risk either way for Children is so low that it’s finely balanced whether or not it’s worth doing. It then becomes a question of whether vaccinating children helps slow the spread.
    
    I can understand how the authorities could arrive at either conclusion.
    
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    October 27, 2021 11:25am
  - Jim
    
    Yep crazy politicians as UK Chief Medical Officer has no skin in that game….he’s not married and has no children. BTW the UK JVCI decision was insufficient health benefits VS risk to under 12 years.
    
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    October 27, 2021 8:39pm
- Ed Snack
  
  Benedict, data from California suggests that it is worse than you think. For under 17 year olds, 680K cases, 37 deaths – all in cases with significant comorbidities. All these people are supposed to vaccinated as well, that is all the recovered are to be scheduled to be vaccinated.
  
  The kicker, the vaccine injury rate men’s that they should expect around 20-50 deaths amongst that group from vaccination plus many serious long lasting injuries. So for the healthy children, very much a negative sum game, risk of death and injury and almost zero benefit.
  
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  October 27, 2021 10:08am
- Aquataur
  
  BY: Just to thanks you for all your research, as well as your honesty in reviewing evidence and changing your stance when it is no longer supported.
  
  Was it Einstein who said ” I change my mind when the evidence shows me I am wrong. What do you do?”
  
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  October 27, 2021 11:17am
  - Graeme Hall
    
    From memory it was Lord John Maynard Keynes who was criticised at the time for changing his view on some economic issue.
    
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    October 27, 2021 1:21pm
- DeepBlue
  
  I don’t think the 90% proportion will put JA off vaccinating younger children. She will just say every child vaccinated is one more over 90%. Using warped logic.
  
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  October 27, 2021 7:05pm
dannz

I have a new proposal for the government:

1. No vaccine mandates or certificates

2. Hospital/ICU care is made available for unvaccinated with Covid if there is space available

3. If there is not space available, the unvaccinated are triaged out to a purpose built covid hospital, staffed with the unvaccinated medical professionals, and equipped with oxygen, Ivermectin, Vitamin D and and few others.

This has the following benefits:
A. Those who do their bit and get vaccinated to protect the health system get a functioning health system in return. Consequences are more closely aligned with choices

B. Those who don’t think they need the vaccination have no cause for concern, as they shouldn’t need hospital care

C. The unvaccinated don’t have restrictions on participation in society.

Seems like a win/win to me.
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October 27, 2021 8:04am
- PhilBest
  
  Indeed, why not make Ivermectin and the protocols published by McCullough et al available to people who want them and who refuse vaccination?
  
  We are happy to “let the unvaccinated die untreated” because they refused the vaccine; where is the moral consistency in saying they shouldn’t be allowed to “take the risk of taking Ivermectin” – at the right time, too, BTW, not when they are a day away from death anyway.
  
  And that is an excellent idea, to let medical personnel who don’t want to be vaccinated, be the ones who treat the unvaccinated. That solves two problems at once – gives the unvaccinated medical personnel a source of ongoing work.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:27am
  - Sacha
    
    I have got everything except the Ivermectin. I only need half a dozen tabs, but these are forbidden by the Medsafe Controllers.
    I think it is beyond doubt now that [deleted, conspiracy – Mod]
    I am not happy.
    
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    October 27, 2021 10:23am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Mods, sorry, but that’s no longer in the “conspiracy” field. Why are the medical authorities banning a safe and useful medication ? In who’s interest are they acting, because it surely ain’t in the interests of the NZ population in general.
      
      Ivermectin, when prescribed to known limits, is one of the safest medicines in use. What harm can come from allowing it to be prescribed ? All the ban would do is drive the less informed to try self dosing which can be dangerous.
      
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      October 27, 2021 11:58am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Indeed, no offence mid but are you too becoming a”si gle source of truth “?
        We can’t see the comment. Why is it a conspiracy theory?
        
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        October 27, 2021 1:03pm
    - Reid
      
      There is no doubt Bloomfield is either too ignorant to be leading us through this thing, or he lied, not got it wrong and forgot, but lied, when he talked the other day about there being no studies on human efficacy for IVM.
      
      You can prove this simply by going to US NIH (National Institutes of Health) website and typing in “ivermectin studies” – here’s the link: https://search.nih.gov/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&affiliate=nih&query=ivermectin+study&commit=Search
      
      The fact Bloomfield apparently doesn’t know about these on a website he presumably spends a lot of time on these days, means that either he’s dangerously ignorant and thus unqualified to lead the nation through this pandemic, or he was simply lying. There isn’t a third alternative.
      
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      October 27, 2021 2:08pm
      - Batman
        
        Read the main results for the top result:
        https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34318930/
        
        “Very-low certainty evidence” over and over again.
        
        This is the part that the Ivermectin crowd don’t want to hear…
        
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        October 27, 2021 2:24pm
      - Reid
        
        Have a look at the dosage and the treatment regimes followed for those negative studies. It’s amazing what happens if you leave it till it’s all too late before you apply the medicine you’re testing, or you use the wrong dose. There are about nine of those.
        
        Then be sure to have a look at the rest of the studies which did it properly and got amazing results. There is about 64 of those.
        
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        October 27, 2021 2:35pm
- tf78
  
  dannz, If we had the treatments available the hospitals wouldn’t be full anyway, so it’s not about our health, it’s all about control.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:46am
- burt
  
  dannz
  
  I like where you’re going acknowledging personal choices have consequences.
  
  There are many areas in the health system where people can be relegated to second class citizens based on the choices they have made.
  
  Overweight people can be second class citizens for diabetes and coronary treatment. Quite exciting that unlike a binary choice of did or didn’t vaccinate we could use an instant BMI reading to prioritise people entering A&E. Very obese people could just be sent on a slow walk directly to mortuary. Why bother treating them at all, they have clearly made a lifestyle of making poor choices over a long time.
  
  Sporting injuries are, for anyone other than professional sports people, also the result of choices the individual made. Imagine a person turning up with a broken collar bone from playing club rugby… sorry buddy, you made a bad choice. Here is some pain med you’ll need to pay full price for, maybe next month we’ll get that seen to…
  
  Car accidents are also the result of choices individuals make, unless of course those people are passengers and even then there is an element of choice and a decision to trust the driver.
  
  We’re going to also be able to disband most of ACC under your grand idea. The whole concept of “no fault” gone, just like that.
  
  You’ve opened a big door, I hope you’re proud of what you are supporting.
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:09am
  - dannz
    
    Bit of a straw man there.
    You didn’t notice I mentioned that unvaxxed were not stopped from accessing care if there was enough available?
    
    Why should they get care at the expense of someone else who did take personal responsibility?
    
    There is enough capacity in the system to cover the steady stream of normal diseases and accidents, and none of them are threatening to singlehandedly overwhelm the hospital system. Without a pandemic surge there is enough care to go around and no need for some to go without.
    
    If the unvaccinated make a choice that results in a massive surge, that the hospital system cannot cope with, they should be the first ones to miss out on the care.
    
    And if the disease is so mild, and the hospitals won’t be overwhelmed, why are you worried?
    
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    October 27, 2021 10:40am
    - Jim
      
      Yep crazy politicians as UK Chief Medical Officer has no skin in that game….he’s not married and has no children. BTW the UK JVCI decision was insufficient health benefits VS risk to under 12 years.
      
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      October 27, 2021 8:43pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    And what happens If it turns out that it is the vaccinated who require treatment?
    
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    October 27, 2021 1:03pm
- Fletch
  
  Yah, and what this will show is that vaccinated people will also be in the line to get into ICU, because the vaccine doesn’t work.
  
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  October 27, 2021 10:33am
  - Batman
    
    If you’re vaccinated and have a major weakness like cancer or an immune disorders, yes you may still end up in the ICU.
    
    If people are in the ICU then it’s not just a mild flu, is it?
    
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    October 27, 2021 11:36am
    - Ed Snack
      
      People die from the flu, every year. Typically several hundred a year, more in a “bad” flu year. And that’s without any specific testing for flu in elderly unwell patients.
      
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      October 27, 2021 12:11pm
- ecco
  
  Great suggestion dannz.
  You forgot something, the unvaccinated hospital has to be fully ventilated…
  
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  October 27, 2021 10:47am
- Salacious Crumb
  
  So if I was in a serious MVA caused by a drunk, vaccinated individual and needed ICU care as a result I should be put in the queue behind the individual that caused it?
  
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  October 27, 2021 11:28am
  - dannz
    
    No,
    I said “unvaccinated with Covid” meaning requiring hospitalisation as a result of Covid.
    
    Unvaccinated would be treated as usual for all other hospitalisation requirements.
    
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    October 27, 2021 3:39pm
Brian McDonald

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Oh dear, the nocturnal bird is awake from marching nowhere all night.
Great message from Judith to the hikoi, a twist on the old “get a haircut and get a job.” She said, “get vaccinated, it’s not all about you.”
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October 27, 2021 8:06am
- cmm
  
  Moral posturing again Brian?
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:51am
  - RoboRob
    
    Against his own, left wing, viewpoint?
    
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    October 27, 2021 9:04am
- RoboRob
  
  Are you really criticising Judith for saying the exact same thing as Labour Brian?
  
  I would criticise Judith for those comments. I think that is a tremendously poor attitude from a politician that is supposed to support individual responsibility and freedom of association etc.
  
  It feels like she is just trying to play to the centre / Cindy voter. As you just proved, that’s a waste of time 🙂
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:03am
- doggone7
  
  Remember when a hikoi was a march?
  Some of those involved in the ‘hikoi’ stunt from Rotorua to Northland might be crazy but they’re not that crazy they’re going to walk, do it in the traditional style.
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:10am
  - Flossie
    
    And remember when a waka was a canoe?
    
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    October 27, 2021 11:25am
    - sooty
      
      Remember when a hikoi was a march, not a car ride!
      
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      October 27, 2021 3:11pm
rouppe

I find it incredibly ironic that in the name of inclusivity and diversity people are being required to act in a homogenous manner, and anyone uncomfortable complying with that homogeneous directive is excluded, vilified and threatened.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/cricket-south-african-star-quinton-de-kock-pulls-out-of-twenty20-world-cup-match-after-refusing-to-take-a-knee/GA3BGEMWB3QBL7SIFFGPZ6QICQ/
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October 27, 2021 8:07am
- kowtow
  
  The Indians took a knee for BLM , great , what about their untouchables ?
  
  Yesterday the news reported a German woman was given only 10 years for allowing her five year old slave to die in agony and misery alone in the sun , having been chained outside the house for wetting her bed .
  
  Will anyone “take a knee” for the Yazidis ?
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:25am
  - Southtop2
    
    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/06/11/the-complex-funding-and-ideology-of-black-lives-matter/
    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/04/11/report-marxist-black-lives-matter-co-founder-buys-four-homes/
    enough said
    
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    October 27, 2021 12:45pm
BAM

Judith Collins.
I expected so much and she’s delivered so little.
What a disappointment she’s been.
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October 27, 2021 8:08am
- Benedict Yu
  
  She said yesterday that the Government was creating a two class society. Yet it was her saying that the unvaccinated should be banned from supermarkets. If she leads National to the next election they are doomed.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:28am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Careful what you read about Judith–it’s very likely to be distorted to the point of untruth. She is not allowed to be actually reported in the MSM.
    
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    October 27, 2021 8:35am
    - RoboRob
      
      Would love to think that, and I had high hopes for Judith, even though she is on the left of National. But I am not sure how her comments on the hikoi protesters, ‘go home and get vaxed’ ties up with her more sensible ‘lets not create to classes of NZers’.
      
      She just has no consistency as she tries to play to Labour / centerist voters. As I said to Brian above, Judith doesn’t seem to have a moral compass. Does she stand for freedom and individualism or is she big government or something else. Depending on the day / topic she moves all over the political spectrum.
      
      I understand it’s politics and she is playing to the biggest audience BUT because she is all over the place you never get a feel as to what a JC lead government would look like.
      
      Btw I also have this same issue, to a much smaller extent, with David Seymour.
      
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      October 27, 2021 9:13am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Almost invariably I find that Judith has had her words or context embroidered to distort and put her down.
        I know her as a very able and sensible person. That doesn’t mean I agree with every thing she says, but I expect to.
        We need to uphold her as the alternative is much worse.
        Divide and they conquer.
        
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        October 27, 2021 11:14am
      - RoboRob
        
        @Kev
        I really want a National led government. Labour are useless. The right doesn’t need to win most of the people on this sites votes.
        
        I have always liked Judith and high hopes. But she needs to come across as a stable pair of hands and a known quantity. John key did before he came into power. He was clear, consistent and stood for things. Judith doesn’t achieve this with conflicting statements around issues.
        
        That’s my friendly advice.
        
        I would also comment on the irony on this site, where often regardless of what is written you get down votes if you criticise pet people or topics. I see down votes for criticising Collins and Seymour today and in the past Shane Reti. I support these people but that doesn’t mean they are perfect. We should try and have open minds.
        
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        October 27, 2021 11:30am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Agree entirely. I mean how hard is it to formulate a forward plan for New Zealand. I could do it in a week and write it up in 30 days. If you read this Judith I will give you a good price ?
        
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        October 27, 2021 5:01pm
    - Sacha
      
      I think Judith knows exactly what the score is. We have been sold out and neither she or any other opposition mp) can afford to be too outspoken until they are handed the reins. So she says a little as possible – a fine balance to keep the dogs of media at bay.
      
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      October 27, 2021 10:27am
  - BAM
    
    Yep, she’s trying to play multiple sides at once.
    National and Collins need to learn from David Seymour, you state your position and people either like it and vote for you or they don’t.
    
    National just wants to get elected and will say or take any position they think will achieve that.
    
    Completely untrustworthy.
    
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    October 27, 2021 9:01am
    - RoboRob
      
      Not sure why all the down ticks. Sensible advice and the point I was trying to make.
      
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      October 27, 2021 11:33am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Seymour is allowed a platform to divide the vote.
      
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      October 27, 2021 4:09pm
  - Jim
    
    Well she’s quite overweight and possibly wants everyone’s children to take responsibility for her health.
    
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    October 28, 2021 5:27am
Captain Mainwaring

So Helen Clark’s still sounding off.
Who pays any attention to that irrelevant old trout anymore?
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October 27, 2021 8:11am
- peterwn
  
  Jacinda
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:44am
- Inandout
  
  CM, I am sure Peter pays attention.
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:01am
  - sooty
    
    Well he doesn’t have much choice does he!
    
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    October 27, 2021 3:13pm
Tony Stuart

Barry Soper is not satisfied with the PM’s answers in yesterday’s post-Cabinet presser:

It’s not the Prime Minister’s fault that she hasn’t visited her Mt Albert constituency, or indeed the wider locked up mega city of Auckland – nothing ever is.

It’s the fault of the Inspector General of Parliament Trevor Mallard who clearly needs to feel powerful – he requires any MP, or for that matter anyone working in the place, to have a double negative Covid test if they’re coming from Auckland and to self-isolate for five days.

Other essential workers returning to the capital don’t have to go through that sort of rigmarole but Jacinda Ardern says as an essential worker it’s her job “to run the country” and not spend time at home twiddling her thumbs, unlikely of course with a toddler in tow.

But surely if she can give speeches to Apec and the East Asia Summit, as she did last night, then she could do the odd Zoom into the Beehive down the road to give them the hand of gentle guidance.

Her good buddy Mallard is probably doing her a favour though by keeping her away from Auckland. Why would the beaming, good news Ardern want to see first-hand the doom and gloom that has been inflicted on the city which is at wits’ end?

The new traffic lights on the road to nowhere are stuck on red until at least the end of next month while the nigh-on impossible task of getting 90 per cent of the city’s residents double jabbed continues. The longer it goes on, the more Aucklanders feel that Ardern has a duty to front up in person rather than pontificating at them from the Pulpit of Truth several times a week.

And the fury will grow when she announces that she’s off to Europe in a couple of weeks’ time, taking her tribe of apparatchiks with her and with the media traipsing along to witness the spectacle.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-barry-soper-trevor-mallard-to-blame-for-pm-avoiding-auckland/VK46MMNNE5T6KIXHEOZ5YCEMLU/

Somehow, Judith Collins managed to go to Auckland during the recent two-week recess. She returned on the last Thursday of the school holidays, so she would have done her Mallard-imposed isolation penance in time for Parliament’s resumption last Tuesday. Could the PM not have done likewise?

Perhaps too, if she has a country to run, she should stand aside as the MP for Mt Albert. The constituents there must be feeling short-changed, with their local MP having been absent from the electorate since she hurriedly flew back to Wellington before locking the country down in mid-August.

Soper was quite right to question the PM about this yesterday, and her attempt to avoid his question whilst throwing to Jenna makes her look even less open and transparent than usual.
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October 27, 2021 8:11am
- 7kiwi11
  
  The traffic lights haven’t even been turned on yet! We’re still in level 3 point something or level 3 step 1 or was it… oh I can’t remember. I just know I can’t go back to the office or I will die .. or something like that…. I forget.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:44am
- stroker08
  
  Labour have taken my electorate of Mt Albert for granted since forever.
  
  This pathetic excuse of a leader was paracuhted in to replace David “Snapperhead” Shearer as she couldnt beat the wet blanket that was Nickki Kaye in Auckland Central. And he inherrited it from the O.G. Emperor Palaptine, Helen Clarke.
  
  Mt Albert’s demographic has been flooded with KO housing in the last 4 years and plans continue to keep the neighbourhood chock with dependents. Wont matter if she stands aside, another Commie will just take her place and piss in.
  
  BTW, we need to rid Mt Albert of Melissa Lee. She is completely invisible both in the electorate and in Wellington.
  
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  October 27, 2021 11:12am
Maggy Wassilieff

It seems to take months for this Government to recognize the bleeding obvious…and then we get swathes of spin…before a big announcement.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/126787634/covid-19-why-the-government-should-ditch-miq-for-fully-vaccinated-in-auckland

BUT, what is the Government going to do with all the folks who have had work propping up the shaky/leaky MIQ system?
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October 27, 2021 8:16am
- MarkF
  
  @MW I wonder if the PM’s upcoming trip abroad has anything to do do with this “relaxing” of the MIQ system? Just asking for many friends.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:23am
  - nathie
    
    Imagine the guests one could invite to one’s wedding if the MIQ system is relaxed!
    
    VIP musicians (like Ed Sherran), VIP movie makers and stars … maybe even CNN and Vogue reporters?!
    
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    October 27, 2021 9:03am
    - stroker08
      
      Dont forget the comedic leviathan that is Steven Colbert…
      
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      October 27, 2021 11:14am
      - Batman
        
        Yes because Greg Gutfeld is clearly the best comedian… ?
        
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        October 27, 2021 11:38am
      - OTGO
        
        I can’t reply to Batman so suggest he click this link https://redstate.com/beccalower/2021/08/20/winning-greg-gutfeld-now-dominates-all-late-night-hosts-in-total-viewers-n429908
        Go Greg Gutfeld
        
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        October 27, 2021 12:20pm
      - Batman
        
        Tucker holds 4 million and Greg sheds over half of those? Good work Greg!
        
        And cherry picking numbers from specific nights is not very confident given the capture ability of Fox News should have his numbers much higher.
        
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        October 27, 2021 1:28pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        OTGO, reply to Batman under the comment from stroker08 at 11.14am
        
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        October 27, 2021 2:13pm
  - RoboRob
    
    Nah, just the usual knee jerk reaction to poor planning. They want infected NZers to isolate from home so it now looks stupid that un infected people (coming into a city with mass infections) have to isolate in MIQ.
    
    They didn’t think of this so are running around trying to resolve it. Just like all the COVID decisions.
    
    Wait for Dec 4 (cant do Dec 1 because of Nats / Act) when they realise that the country wont get to 90% everywhere for Christmas and decide to open up anyway. Called it here first 🙂
    
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    October 27, 2021 9:20am
  - Sacha
    
    If I were the PM I’d be very careful about being in the UK – what if something happens to her so that she can’t get the plane home for MIQ. What if she has a positive swab for instance?
    While the rat’s away, the mice will play –
    
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    October 27, 2021 10:33am
- Ehlana
  
  Now needed to check vaccine passports at shop doors Maggy?
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:40am
- Nickc2
  
  Will people who suffered the full-on MIQ trauma and expense be entitled to a partial refund etc if the rules are changed in line with public opinion and Govt backdown?
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:54am
- Mrs_Right
  
  “Fully vaccinated”.
  
  When will they stop feeding us this lie and stop spreading misinformation.
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:21am
Maggy Wassilieff

Someone at Newshub recognises the continuum between satire/mockery and abuse and threats.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/10/the-increasing-number-of-death-threats-politicians-are-facing.html
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October 27, 2021 8:22am
- kowtow
  
  “It’s a really unique job.”
  
  That’s from the Herald’s “senior” reporter.
  
  ‘Nuff said.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:35am
Kiwi_in_Paris

Good analysis of effects of Covid Pfizer jibby jab on red blood cells under a microscope:

https://twitter.com/Doctor_I_am_The/status/1453026848976384002
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October 27, 2021 8:25am
Raphael

Our medical professionals have long talked about NZ’s obesity epidemic. And indeed it takes a massive toll on our health systems and our economy.
Now that they are establishing precedent, at what point will our government require you to display a recent cholesterol test before you’re allowed to buy KFC?
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October 27, 2021 8:28am
- kowtow
  
  You raise an excellent point , the elephant in the room as it were.
  
  All the great and the good are calling for all sorts of draconian , fascist measures to “protect” all and sundry’s health .
  
  Now the govt are claiming the unvaxxed are endangering everyone’s health , but as you say where’s anyone asking , nay demanding that fat people take responsibility for their own obesity related health issues.
  
  I see many now calling hysterically for unvaxxed to be triaged out of care , OK how about same for the huge fat monsters that so many have allowed themselves to become?
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:41am
- ecco
  
  [do not denigrate based on appearance, as per commenting guidelines – Mod]
  
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  October 27, 2021 10:52am
Frank the tank

Quentin De Kock – You are now my favorite cricketer.

Resist the tyranny
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October 27, 2021 8:29am
- MCos
  
  Quentin De Kock refused to play because he didn’t want to ‘take a knee’ before the game against the West Indies as directed.
  One hopes this was because he didn’t like to be told what to do rather than not sympathizing with racial equality.
  The West Indian TV commentator seemed to be right pissed off.
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:42am
  - mawm
    
    Taking the knee has nothing to do with racial equality.
    
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    October 27, 2021 12:52pm
Benedict Yu

Had to laugh at Christchurch Airport this morning. The Air New Zealand person took her mask off to speak into the microphone at the boarding gate to call the flight.

No that is when it is supposed to be on. ?
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October 27, 2021 8:30am
- peterwn
  
  I did not know that germs could travel through a Tannoy system.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:46am
- Ra Henare
  
  How sad, someone with common sense(i allowing people to hear what she is saying).
  Bet she was more than 2 metres from all the pax(who would have been wearing masks)
  
  The Cabal should have her removed immediately for not being a slave to some BS Political dictate.
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:05am
Yvette

A few days ago Three Waters Reform TV adverts were rubbished –
• Complaints about the Government’s Three Waters Reform TV adverts have described them as misinformation, untrue and a taxpayer-funded propaganda campaign.

• Jacinda Kate Laurell Ardern attended the University of Waikato, graduating in 2001 with a Bachelor of Communication Studies (BCS) in politics and public relations. She spent a semester abroad at Arizona State University in 2001. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacinda_Ardern

Who better qualified to recognise Three Waters Reform TV adverts are misinformation, untrue and a taxpayer-funded propaganda campaign?

But she is running this nation’s response to covid, with the lives of many in her hands.
That’d be rude as, eh?
Seems, indeed, it may be –

Television covid ad – Two shots
Eh, you’re with two shots for summer man, two shots delivered free, two for long days and long nights [vaccination determines how long you can last?]. Yeah two shots is the key. Two shots to gather whanau [have a picnic, like Brian?], is there two shots to share feed [eat food] two shots to have a sing along [volubly spread moisture around], even two to do the deed [have sex]. Two shots for the beach hangs, two shots for the mish [some activity unknown to me], two to Manu off the wharf, two shots for skinny dips [swim naked at night]. Two shots to hit the festivals to to get up front [probably shout and spray moisture again], two to bust shapes [?] with the crew, two to straight up sun [not advised, even for the vaccinated]. Two shots for the house parties. Two to lap the main [run about], two shots to hoop down at the park [run more]. Two shots to win the game [stop running]! Yeah, two shots for summer. Get your first one now and get your second ASAP [no, 8 – 12 weeks is optimum spacing between shots for Pfiser]. Chill

But when you think about it – gather whanau, share feed, sing along, beach hangs, hit the festivals, house parties, to win the game – may all be group activities and depending on numbers. Having sex and skinny dips often do not.

• Vaccines will be mandated for staff at any business where vaccine passports are required for entry.
If vaccination allows people the above Two Shots activities, will any monitoring of these activities also require vaccination?

But then there is the inspiration for Two Shots – other similar wraps include –
Two Shots – Lil Wayne:
I’m on 2 shots of whatever
2 shots of whatever
It’s like tug-of-war, tryna pull myself together
I could probably do better, but probably’s like never
I’m a pimp under pressure, leave my money on the dresser
2 shots of whatever
2 shots of whatever

Cut her ears off, ain’t shit she could tell us
Write your name on the bullet, that’s a fuckin love letter
If I ain’t a trending topic, I’m a fucking trend-setter

– also uses uses the “n” word 5-letter derivative a bit. Edgey wrap, unknown to much of the general audience.
So maybe a little like the “well intentioned” anti-smacking bill, which resulted in several cases of fairly young children beating up their even younger siblings in school playgrounds, and when stopped and asked why, it emerged “parents” were commanding it, as they couldn’t discipline their children without facing charges, but kids could. Some parents may be criminal, but they are not fucking stupid – politicians, however, can be.

But maybe not so harsh – Advice from the Government on how to have a conversation –
How to have a positive and respectful conversation when someone you care about has fears or concerns about the COVID-19 vaccine.
Conversation pointers
Words matter [as Winston, bless his memory, pointed out] – using the word “but” can evoke a negative response, instead try “and also…” or “at the same time, it could be that…”, “a different way to look at that might be…”
Actions matter – interrupting, raising your voice or rolling your eyes will all feel like judgments and could stop the conversation. Do not try to fill the space if there is a pause, as this allows for time to reflect and shows respect.

– yep! hints on conversation manipulation. You, of course see this compassionate approach every day that politicians attend Parliament’s Conversation Chamber.
And, again, of course, Government is the master of conversations, like the national conversation on Capital Gains Tax where Government never gave their side of what was being discussed, and the “hate speech” conversation where they never actually defined what anyone was talking about.
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October 27, 2021 8:31am
- Rich Prick
  
  I heard that advertisement for the first time yesterday. WTF?
  
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  October 27, 2021 11:23am
  - Paulus
    
    Too late Mahuta has just said sod the Councils she has decided it will go ahead and will shortly get a Maori name.
    
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    October 27, 2021 2:07pm
- Rich Prick
  
  Did I read that correctly, “two shots” or no root. Is this what we have come to?
  
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  October 27, 2021 7:51pm
lastmanstanding

If I may move to a new topic COP26. The fraudsters con artists and scammers are telling us so far not yet invented energy sources are going to save the planet.

Green Hydrogen is being touted as a fix. I would remind everyone of the Hindenberg.

Most Western countries will use nuke power to solve their energy problems. Rolls Royce is working on small scale very efficent and safe nuke plants that can be added to any size,

But of course NZ wont go this path. The Greens wont allow anymore hydro ( harms the environment) wind and solar on work some time and as we saw in the UK fails at times to meet demand.

Putin is bailing out West Germany with Russian gas as their systems cant meet demand. The Poms are facing a very cold unheated winter.

And meanwhile the rich pricks are planning on getting richer. Australia has just promised them $19B to develop other energy sources. You can bet most of thst will be trousered and they will come back for more.

As I say Climate Change will be looked back upon by future generations as the biggest con fraud and scam ever perpetrated on the middle classes and the poor.
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October 27, 2021 8:40am
- kowtow
  
  Green hydrogen is today’s equivalent of the alchemist’s quest to turn base metals into gold .
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:43am
  - alloytoo
    
    Ironically you can turn base metals into gold, but you need a particle accelerator and vast amounts of energy, just like “Green Hydrogen”.
    
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    October 27, 2021 9:32am
- cmm
  
  “Green Hydrogen is being touted as a fix.”
  
  The problem with hydrogen is that it is not an energy source but an energy transfer mechanism.
  
  Hydrogen (in meaningful amounts anyway) has to be manufactured, using energy or cracked from a hydrocarbon (aka energy), and is a wasteful process – producing much less hydrogen energy than went in.
  
  So where does that source energy come from? Depending on the process mainly electricity or gas.
  
  You’d do better to use the electricity or gas directly.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:59am
  - Ed Snack
    
    If it could be converted, stored, and reused it *might* be a viable mechanism to use solar power without too much trouble from intermittent supply.
    
    However that is an enormous challenge, H2 escapes anything, really needs to be stored as a liquid for efficiency which means a huge amount of energy to liquify and keep cold. Plus more efficient catalysts to produce H2 from water (and a safe disposal of the O2) and very large scale fuel cells for the reverse conversion.
    
    Otherwise the only option is to keep pushing for Fusion power, but sadly I suspect that Fusion is the power of the future and always will be “in the future”.
    
    Nuclear is really the only game in town, that or reversion to a peasant economy with a privileged elite running things.
    
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    October 27, 2021 1:05pm
  - peterwn
    
    ‘green’ hydrogen is that produced from water using hydro/ solar/ wind electricity.
    There is a term ‘blue’ hydrogen which is produced from hydrocarbons. As far as I can see, production of ‘blue’ hydrogen contributes to alleged climate change.
    
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    October 27, 2021 4:15pm
- Paulus
  
  Our Wonderwoman would not answer in Parliament yesterday whether she is going to Glasgow next week – for her honeymoon I expect along with her camera men and women entourage eg Tova and Jessie as maids of “Honour”.
  What will it cost whilst we all are chained up at home.
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:03am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I suspect her wedding will be mid-late Jan, at a (slightly out-of) Gisborne locality….. Unless we are all in lockdown by then.
    
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    October 27, 2021 11:44am
- krazykiwi
  
  The hydrogen molecule is 7.5 times smaller than the methane molecule. It would leak from every gas network junction, and directly through some pipe. The Hindenberg comparison is relevant.
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:11am
  - cmm
    
    Apart from its size, the hydrogen nucleus is a single proton, so when hydrogen ionizes it basically breaks down into individual protons and electrons. This allows it to diffuse quite easily through metals (pretty much “flowing” electrically).
    
    Methane, OTOH, is well bonded to the carbons and does not ionise as readily. Even if you force it to ionise, they’re fat, large ions.
    
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    October 27, 2021 9:18am
- Raphael
  
  I would remind everyone of the Hindenberg.
  
  Didn’t the skin of the Hindenburg have Silver Nitrate or some other exceptionally flammable chemical on it? In addition to the hydrogen inside?
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:23am
  - Ed Snack
    
    AgNO3 isn’t specifically inflammable, but the skins on H2 filled airships were thin and light, with special bags inside containing the H2.
    
    Exactly why the Hindenburg caught fire isn’t known, but any spark close to the gas bags would be potentially enough. Hindenburg had valves gas just prior to the fire, but not specifically in the area where the fire is thought to have started.
    
    Interestingly over half the crew and passengers survived, and two years earlier a USN He filled blimp crashed into the Atlantic off New Jersey killing twice as many crew.
    
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    October 27, 2021 1:19pm
- Michael Johnston
  
  If the green extremists really believed that climate change is the existential threat they say it is, they’d promote nuclear power, which creates negligible carbon emissions and can create a massive amount of power relatively cheaply. The risk of a catastrophe of the kind seen at Chernobyl or even Fukushima is also negligible if state-of-the-art reactor technology is used. There is, of course, the radioactive waste to contend with but, compared with the end of the world as we know it, that seems a small problem. One might draw the conclusion that they’re not really concerned about “the planet” at all but, rather, with political manipulation and control.
  
  Between climate change fanaticism, COVID authoritarianism and the woke cultural revolution, I think it’s no longer hyperbolic to suggest that we’re hurtling headlong towards totalitarianism.
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:55am
- Taieri
  
  Green Hydrogen is being touted as a fix. I would remind everyone of the Hindenberg.
  ———————-
  
  And I’d also remind everyone of the thermodynamics.
  
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  October 27, 2021 10:19am
- oldfella
  
  @LMS
  
  But of course NZ wont go this path. The Greens wont allow anymore hydro ( harms the environment) wind and solar on work some time and as we saw in the UK fails at times to meet demand.
  
  Do we have any good sites left for future hydro dams? And bugger the greens, we need power.
  
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  October 27, 2021 10:57am
- Doc Holliday
  
  No, climate deniers will be regarded like all the other crackpots: flat earthers, WTC conspirators, moon landing cranks, young Earth creationists …
  
  The science involving atmospheric CO2 is irrefutable. Clearly – otherwise the handful of crank scientists who don’t accept it would have refuted it in peer-reviewed journals.
  
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  October 27, 2021 12:41pm
  - Taieri
    
    No, climate deniers
    —————-
    
    Is there actually anyone who denies the climate?
    
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    October 27, 2021 1:31pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Has anyone read the story re the 20 Teslas bought for this circus in Glasgow?
  https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/un-climate-conference-using-diesel-generators-to-charge-fleet-of-tesla-cars/
  
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  October 27, 2021 1:06pm
KevO'Brien

Scots Wha Hae?
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2021/10/26/delingpole-cop26-hyperinflation-now-climate-consensus-greater-than-99-per-cent/

I remember the intellectual skullduggery to get the 97% consensus number. Another 2% added similarly. Ardern is really heating up the planet.
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October 27, 2021 8:41am
Stu2

The vaccination status of cases and hospitalisations is now being published weekly for the current outbreak. If you subtract the data up to last week from this week, you are left with the pattern for the last 7 days.

The categories are;
– under 12
– unvaxxed
– one dose < 14 days ago
– one dose
– second dose < 14 days ago
– two doses

I have grouped the first two as unvaxxed, the next three as partly vaxxed and the last one as vaxxed.

The 676 cases in the last week (Mon-Sun) were:
– 6.7% vaxxed
– 27.8% partly vaxxed
– 65.5% unvaxxed

60% of the entire population is double vaxxed. The vaccine is doing well. You would expect the vaxxed proportion of the cases to be about 60% (*) if the vaccine was ineffective.

The 53 hospitalisations in the last week (Mon-Sun) were:
– 0% vaxxed
– 26.4% partly vaxxed
– 73.6% unvaxxed

While the vaccinated and partly vaccinated proportion is a little lower than that of the cases, these numbers are small so it is too soon to come to any conclusion.

What is clear is that the unvaccinated are vastly over-represented in cases and hospitalisations.

(*) in reality this is more complicated than just the population percentage. The vaccinated tend to be older and possibly less socially exposed on average.
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October 27, 2021 8:47am
- cmm
  
  I wonder how good those stats are. Are we seeing a self sampling bias?
  
  People are not being randomly tested. Most people get tested when they ask for it.
  
  We do know that the vaccine suppresses symptoms, so therefore people who are vaccinated are less likely to have symptoms and thus less likely to seek testing.
  
  What’s happening in hospitals? Is everyone going into hospital being tested or are only those thought to be at risk being tested? If it is the latter, then there is a good chance that the testing is biased towards catching unvaccinated.
  
  The “gold standard” for any statistics is random sampling. That is not happening.
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:25am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The stats at the moment are heavily weighted toward the large number of under 50 year-olds who were in group 4 and weren’t eligible for vaccination when this outbreak in Auckland commenced.
  
  Assuming that it takes at least 4 weeks for the average person’s immune system to fully kick in after the 2nd jab, many of those in hospital were not in a position to be protected against the virus.
  
  We need to see what happens in the next couple of months when 90% of Aucklanders will be double vaxxed and have had a month or so building up vax-immunity.
  
  If the greater majority of folks turning up in hospital with covid symptoms are unvaxxed, then it would fair to say that the vaccine is currently being effective,
  but if a sizeable proportion of double vaxxed folk are hospitalised (as is happening in other places), then we are going to have to run with another story.
  
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  October 27, 2021 10:02am
- oldfella
  
  Stu2, you might find this World Life Expectancy site worth a look. Check out NZ compared to the rest of the planet and then ponder why Cindy and co are tearing our country apart doing what they’re doing to tackle Covid. https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/selected-deaths-vs-covid-19-new-zealand
  
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  October 27, 2021 11:04am
Truman lodge

No Xmas then I’m totally gutted!!

I’m really starting to think that there is no way Vaxinda will release about 700k Aucklanders on the population on the 23rd of December. Especially if double jab and a negative test is required to pass the border. But kiwis will accept it of course and do as we are told.

UBI or CBDC will be added to your vaccine certificate app sometime next year. The mandate and certificates are not going away they are permanent. We have been so battered down now it’s feeling like we are suffering Stockholm Syndrome.
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October 27, 2021 8:53am
ecco

Saw Malpass of Stuff been wheeled out to soften up the public and write a piece saying that MIQ has outlived it’s usefulness. Article also opened up for comment. Why? They don’t normally do this for opinion pieces criticising the government.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/126787634/covid-19-why-the-government-should-ditch-miq-for-fully-vaccinated-in-auckland

Malpass, known Labour/Ardern fanboy, obviously been told to write this piece in advance of the MIQ announcement of changes today. Why didn’t he write this several weeks or months ago?

It’s classic Ardern modus operandi and an example of her hold over the NZ MSM and lack of any independent comment on her covid shambles handling. Techniques used to preserve her brand consist of the following:

1. Appear personally front and centre for any good news/lifting of lockdowns.
2. Send out Bloomfield, McElnay or any of the epidemiologists for any bad news. Duck for cover for a few days.
3. For any bad news, arrange announcement of some controversial pieces of legislation that run roughshod over business rights but benefit down and outers. This will difflect criticism and discussion of covid bad news.
4. Announce bad news before long weekend to shut down comment.
5. Let editors of the Ferald and Stuff informed of the schedule.
6. Ask media outlets not to run any political polls unless requested.
7. Order the Ferald to hide any anti government articles or pro right leaning pieces behind their paywall.
8. Order Stuff and the Ferald not to open up articles criticising the government for comment.
9. Make announcements of lifting of lockdowns but make sure in the fine print there are so many ifs, buts and maybes that the changes won’t happen ideally till at the earliest 2022.

Can anyone think of any more?
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October 27, 2021 8:56am
- ecco
  
  Forgot an important one from Ardern and Robertson – “Place copious covid advertising (lockdown rules, vaccination propaganda etc) with MSMs not toeing the line. Make sure advertising rates paid are generous and bear no resemblence to arms length commercial rates.
  
  Remember anyone’s silence can be bought. We have a bottomless pit of taxpayer funded debt to throw at this. We personally won’t be around when this has to be paid back”
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:06am
- BAM
  
  Andrea Vance came out a while ago and said Arderns media team meets weekly with the MSM editors to discuss what the political direction of the week will be.
  
  Why National still thinks it can win over the MSM leaves me shaking my head in disbelief at how ineffectual they are.
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:23am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Bribery and corruption don’t make a Government.
    
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    October 27, 2021 11:17am
    - Paulus
      
      They do this one !
      
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      October 27, 2021 2:09pm
- stroker08
  
  What are the chances of her convenietly being overseas when the government announce that Aucklanders will be restricted to the city limits for Xmas and the rest of summer?
  
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  October 27, 2021 11:19am
Ehlana

From this morning’s Herald:
“Devine was surprised when security guards told her the exemption card was insufficient.

She then tried to push through the two guards, but they grabbed her and physically blocked her, an experience she found frightening.
…
“I just want Pak’n Save to do the right thing and apologise.””

Apparently she does have a genuine exemption. She claims to have further information on her phone to back up the exemption card she carries.

Yet the report says that her response to the security guards not accepting her card was to try to push through them. And now she thinks the store owes her an apology.

It seems to me that she owes the security guards an apology, for trying to force her way past them.

A more rational response would surely have been to (a) politely explain her situation and share the additional information she carries for just such a situation, followed by (b) ask to speak to a manager, either in person or by phone.
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October 27, 2021 8:57am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The store guards are ultimately under store authority.
  
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  October 27, 2021 11:19am
- Ed Snack
  
  Maybe she did, security guards are rarely selected for their ability to understand anything beyond push and shove dynamics.
  
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  October 27, 2021 1:23pm
dime

Quinton de Kock may have just become my favourite cricketer.

I wouldnt take a knee either.
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October 27, 2021 8:58am
- Ehlana
  
  It’s apparently not voluntary for South African cricketers.
  
  Initially, people usually stood for a country’s national anthem, to show their pride in their country or respect for another nation.
  
  Then some American sportsmen decided, as an act of protest, to take a knee during theirs.
  
  If sportspeople are now compelled to kneel, is it still an act of protest? Or is it now no longer meaningful?
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:30am
  - dime
    
    Virtue signalling tripe.
    
    Keep that bullshit out of sport.
    
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    October 27, 2021 9:32am
  - MCos
    
    It doesn’t take place during the anthems in these games.
    Neither is it an act of protest, but a show of support.
    
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    October 27, 2021 9:44am
    - Jack5
      
      You don’t kneel in support, MCos. You kneel in submission.
      
      Next, Wokies will be pushing for full kow-tows.
      
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      October 27, 2021 10:22am
      - MCos
        
        During the Mexico City Olympics in 1968 Tommie Smith & John Carlos raised their fists, which could hardly be called submissive & they got hammered for that too.
        The poor old Aussie guy just wore a badge in support and was banished by the righteous.
        
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        October 27, 2021 11:26am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Black Power salute was a bit different than whole teams pretending that only some coloured lives matter.
        
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        October 27, 2021 1:26pm
  - doggone7
    
    When a team is made to protest it is not a protest by the individuals it is a protest by whoever is making them protest. The players are pawns.
    
    If a team management or the sport’s organising body force players to protest what is the motive?
    
    Can we expect the sports teams to be making some protest against the treatment of Uyghurs in China before the Winter Olympics in China?
    
    Of course not, that’s politics and we don’t want to upset anyone.
    
    “China has been accused of committing crimes against humanity and possibly genocide against the Uyghur population and other mostly-Muslim ethnic groups in the north-western region of Xinjiang.
    
    Human rights groups believe China has detained more than one million Uyghurs against their will over the past few years in a large network of what the state calls “re-education camps”, and sentenced hundreds of thousands to prison terms.”
    
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-22278037
    
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    October 27, 2021 9:47am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Surely that is going to depend on whether team members are actually ‘made’ to protest or not.
      As for China, I think its appalling human rights record should disqualify it as a host for any major sporting or cultural activity. The IOC, FIFA, etc, take an approach of willful blindness to human rights simply because of the money that states like China, Russia and Qatar will pay to host events that showcase the regimes.
      Few few athletes will have the individual moral courage required to miss their sport’s peak event. Have any NZ sportspersons done so since two All Blacks refused to tour with the 1986 Cavaliers to South Africa?
      
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      October 27, 2021 11:26am
  - Michael Johnston
    
    Obviously it isn’t an act of protest. It’s an act of obedient conformity. de Kock is the only protester in sight.
    
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    October 27, 2021 10:00am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Because the most important thing about sports stars are their political opinions?
  Quinton de Kock is one of my favourite cricketers mainly because he stood up to David Warner’s mindless sledging and upset the poor petal with a remark about Warner’s wife – this apparently “crossed a line”, or something.
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:31am
  - Jack5
    
    The link below is what Milky brings up about de Kock and Warner. Even Sonny Bill Williams’s name comes into it.
    
    https://au.sports.yahoo.com/cricket-news-ugly-truth-candice-warner-toilet-tryst-003950836.html
    
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    October 27, 2021 10:17am
- godruelf
  
  And Max Verstappen for the F1 Championship
  
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  October 27, 2021 9:38am
- Jack5
  
  I’m not religious at all, but like Abraham Lincoln’s reaction when a grateful black American kneeled to him in 1865:
  
  “Don’t kneel to me. That is not right. You must kneel to God only, and thank Him for the liberty you will enjoy hereafter.”
  
  And not just Christians don’t kneel in protest. Here’s the view of American rabbis:
  
  https://www.newswars.com/we-kneel-only-before-god-not-protesters-rabbis-say/
  
  As an agnostic, I support these religious people. BLM kneeling is racist abasement.
  
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  October 27, 2021 10:07am
  - Batman
    
    The views of white Christians and Jewish folks should not be forced upon others.
    
    Racist abasement is what you’re attempting to frame up, nothing more.
    
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    October 27, 2021 11:07am
    - graham
      
      So how do you feel about Cricket South Africa forcing their views on the players?
      
      According to the NZ Herald, CSA has stated “All players had been required, in line with a directive of the CA Board on Monday evening, to “take the knee” in a united and consistent stance against racism.”
      
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      October 27, 2021 11:24am
      - Batman
        
        South Africa has a long history of issues with race, and continues to do so.
        
        They judged it appropriate and I’m not going to question it from the outside.
        
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        October 27, 2021 11:50am
Aunty

A good commentary from John Hopkins (one of the world’s best medical institutions and medical schools) from those working at the coal face of the pandemic and who actually understand what is going on, unlike 99% of the Covid nutjobs out there and in here. Some interesting comments on the booster shots too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnczBl79ygc&t=1314s
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October 27, 2021 9:02am
- KevO'Brien
  
  John Hopkins are funded by Gates, so a little suspect.
  
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  October 27, 2021 11:20am
  - Ehlana
    
    Johns Hopkins was founded in 1876. I suspect the Gates’ are two among many donors.
    
    Would you really rather they didn’t give to charity?
    
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    October 27, 2021 1:58pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      John Hopkins foundations may go way back but Gates money is in the present.
      
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      October 27, 2021 4:10pm
Warren

More idiocy from a Government that is way out of their depth.
Doctors excluded from one – off residency visa says Government change ‘makes no sense’.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/10/doctor-excluded-from-one-off-residence-visa-says-govt-change-makes-no-sense.html
This Government and its Minister must be the laughingstock of the world with the rules and regulations they have made for Doctors and Nurse want residency in New Zealand, Kris Faafoi couldn’t run a piss up at brewery even if everything was laid out for him and a disgrace to the Immigration portfolio which he holds.
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October 27, 2021 9:26am
Yvette

Are case numbers daily useless without factoring the number of tests they get them from?

Monday’s covid cases total in Auckland were 103.
That was from 6,966 tests in the “last 24 hours:, which was Sunday.
So 103 cases from 6.966 thousand tests.
Therefore 14.786 cases per 1,000 of those tests.

The peak so far was Friday 22 October 2021 which saw 120 cases in Auckland from 13,763 tests
That works out 8.719 cases per 1,000 thousand.

So if Monday’s infection rate, 14.786 cases per 1,000, was applied to 22 October’s 13,763 the number of cases would be 203.5 – compared to the 120 cases they did have on 22 October.
Monday’s rate was 1.69 times the Friday “peak”.

OK – this absolutely open to mis-calculation, inept application of “statistics”, and other problems, but show where the theory is wrong, correct or explain why it is not so – and why the Government is misleading New Zealand?
So why aren’t there like 200 cases? Perhaps because, on a long weekend, not enough tests have been done to find them …

Indeed look at yesterday’s number of 75 cases in Auckland, the infection rate per thousand tests is 9.651 cases – higher than 22 October (Auckland 120 cases); 21 October (94) and 19 October (87)

Positive covid cases vary, of course, because of the haphazard spread of the virus, but also because of the widely varying number of tests done each day – enough that actual case numbers tell you bugger all.
The television news commentary, that for example: “case numbers have dropped for the third day running”, can be quite wrong and indeed mis-information, without somehow factoring in the varying test numbers.
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October 27, 2021 9:33am
- Stu2
  
  I thought this was going to become more definite when hospital admissions and ICU beds became the key metrics. But the coming isolate at home/care in the community may complicate that, depending on how well it is recorded and reported.
  
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  October 27, 2021 10:37am
- cmm
  
  An excellent observation.
  
  Real science left the building a long time ago. Science is supposed to serve humanity but unfortunately has been bent to serve politicians.
  
  The other issue is that testing is self selecting. That makes it far less reliable than randomly sampled data.
  
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  October 27, 2021 11:20am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Those numbers are similar to what appeared previously recently. Too little data and possible timing differences to affirm or deny them. But about 9 is in the expected range.
  
  I suspect they are consonant with a high rate of false positives. Their presence could be detected by taking a longer series of no’s vaccinated and processed in the same lab and the batch numbers of positives shown daily. Thirty days data should be revealing.
  
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  October 27, 2021 11:29am
Fletch

Brian mentioned it in passing above, but in case you’re not aware, there is a Hikoi heading toward Waitangi to protest govt authoritarian law which has been stopped at the police checkpoint at Mercer and are trying to get through. It’s about 80 cars in all, but with protesters on the other side of the border as well.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/covid-19-delta-outbreak-police-block-protesters-as-hikoi-arrives-at-auckland-border/

From what I understand, lots of support from people on overbridges, tooting cars etc
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October 27, 2021 9:45am
Raphael

3 Waters announcement by Mahuta today at 10:30 I suspect that it will anger everyone as they ram through 3 waters.
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October 27, 2021 9:58am
- Raphael
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb9f155n54c and here is the takeover announcement.
  
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  October 27, 2021 10:33am
  - westernScientest
    
    Yep, At least the Nats aren’t backing this one and say they will repeal it.
    
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    October 27, 2021 10:36am
    - Nickc2
      
      If it’s been leased to the Chinese or used as security for a Govt loan, how can that be repealed?
      See my post @ 11:52AM
      
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      October 27, 2021 12:38pm
      - westernScientest
        
        your probably right, its just nice for once that the Nats are not doing their “labour but better” stance
        
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        October 27, 2021 4:32pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Seems to be in some foreign language
    
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    October 27, 2021 10:53am
- Rich Prick
  
  The Great Heist is on.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/126797566/government-pushes-ahead-with-three-waters-reform-will-take-water-assets-from-councils
  
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  October 27, 2021 10:36am
  - surfing
    
    Of course, this is inevitable.
    
    Mahuta puts Ardern to shame when it comes to who is really in power.
    
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    October 27, 2021 10:47am
  - surfing
    
    I’ve always believed that three waters is a trojan vehicle for maori to grab control of water.
    
    Every time you pay your water bill, there will be a maori who is entitled to part of that payment… not because of any work they did to deliver that water, but, because of the colour of their skin.
    
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    October 27, 2021 10:54am
    - Rich Prick
      
      Atlas Shrugged foretells the perils of surrendering to rent-seekers. And if you don’t think this “reform” is all about rent-seeking, you’re in denial.
      
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      October 27, 2021 11:30am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Atlas Shrugged is a work of fiction read by many teenagers, some of whom have regarded it as a basis for political philosophy. Most grow out of it, as most grow out of reading other fantasy novels. For those interested in libertarian thinking, Robert Heinlein’s science fiction is not only better literature, but also presents a much more interesting range of scenarios.
        
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        October 27, 2021 3:11pm
      - Rich Prick
        
        Well done mike, it is filed under fiction, right next to Orwell’s 1984. They did that to trick lesser minds. Like yours. Here’s a new trick to learn, think.
        
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        October 27, 2021 10:37pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Water and land.
      
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      October 27, 2021 11:30am
    - Raphael
      
      Mahuta dodged the very clear question on that.
      
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      October 27, 2021 12:17pm
      - Yabster
        
        Fuck Mahuta and this shit Government- I won’t be paying my fucking water bill- this is bloody robbery and discrinination- complete b/shit
        
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        October 27, 2021 12:27pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yep,
  This Government knows that if it doesn’t act now, the game will be up next year… as folks realise the “Golden Ticket” is a dud.
  
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  October 27, 2021 10:38am
  - westernScientest
    
    hears to hoping
    
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    October 27, 2021 10:40am
- Rich Prick
  
  Now, I wouldn’t suggest that Councils everywhere take to their about-to-be-confiscated assets with diggers. But it would be fun to see the look on Maoridom’s face when all they get is piles of rubble.
  
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  October 27, 2021 10:41am
  - westernScientest
    
    should get Christchurch councillor Phil Mauger onto it. He is pretty handy with a digger
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/124540232/christchurch-councillor-fined-300-for-digging-unauthorised-trench
    
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    October 27, 2021 10:50am
- Wired-one
  
  Just like the Maori wards, they are forcing this through with the majority of councils opposed to the plan. This is an absolute disgrace!
  
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  October 27, 2021 10:54am
- ecco
  
  Not surprising they’ve deferred their ‘good news’ story of the lifting of MIQ regulations. Deliberate deferment of that news as it would have got swamped by their strong arm 3 Waters announcement.
  
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  October 27, 2021 10:56am
- kowtow
  
  Good .
  
  Now Collins can take the gloves off and have a proper go at this regime…….
  
  It would have been far better from an optics point of view for the Nat leadership team of Bridges / Bennett as they could have dealt easily with what will inevitably be a Media Pardy beat up of race issues on this act of parliamentary theft and anti common law unconstitutionality.(is that a word)…..why do “iwi” get a special say on the “consultations” and future ownership of public assets .
  
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  October 27, 2021 11:05am
  - Nickc2
    
    Well, that seems to be it. Maori now own/control water and associated services in NZ.
    How can they not, given these privileges:
    1. They have unelected entity members and
    2. They have veto authority over any initiatives.
    Remember, Sir John Key saying “nobody owns water?” Well, that may well be true but when a specially selected group of NZers control all the means of:
    Capture,
    Storage,
    Treatment,
    Distribution,
    Disposal, and
    Financial Accountability, how can it be anything else?
    IMO, Mahuta has two things in mind now.
    Does she:
    1. Sell a 99-year lease of NZ’s water service to China, or
    2. Use the confiscated assets as security for a $160Bn Govt loan.
    Only time will tell. A Nats/ACT Govt can revoke all this IMO but as for the Lease/Loan, the Jury is still out.
    
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    October 27, 2021 11:52am
Tauhei Notts

Garrick Tremain’s cartoon about two blokes in heaven is brilliant.
Could somebody with better IT skills than me please link it to this site.
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October 27, 2021 10:02am
- alex Masterley
  
  Tremain is the only cartoonist regularly having a go at the government. Which is sad.
  
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  October 27, 2021 11:23am
- KevO'Brien
  
  https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/cartoon-of-the-day-62
  
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  October 27, 2021 11:32am
James Stephenson

I’d like some journo to ask Rawiri Waititi whether he thinks that the low vaccination rate amongst “his people” has anything to do with the distrust of government and national institutions that he and his fellow separatist travellers constantly promote.
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October 27, 2021 10:33am
Fisiani2

Is it true that 40% of police refuse to be vaccinated and so police will not be mandated to get the vaccine.
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October 27, 2021 10:35am
Fisiani2

Appalling performance by Nania Mahuta. She demands that her opinion is the only one that matters
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October 27, 2021 10:41am
Fisiani2

Why would any council spend a single dollar on water investment between now and July 2024 when it will all be stolen by the Government
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October 27, 2021 10:57am
cmm

It is interesting watching South Africa going through its slow motion death. Interesting for us, because in many ways similar things could happen here if we continue with some of our destructive behaviours.

South Africa is part of Africa and is being run like it is part of Africa, but there is a lot of wokist nonsense trying to look like a modern Western country.

Instead of focusing on making low cost energy that works (ie. coal fired electricity), they are increasingly pushing renewables etc which are both expensive and do not work and are are impractical for the needs of a low-budget economy.

They’re pushing a minimum wage that is damaging employment. Individual productivity is extremely low and cannot sustain the modest minimum wages. The minimum wage is R20/hour (less than $2 an hour). Productivity is so low that that is still too high to make things work.

The “official” unemployment rate is over 34% (57% for youth). The youth have generally unrealistically high expectations which is driving increasing animosity.

There are now more people receiving social security (SASSA) grants than there are employed people. The SASSA CV19 grant is only R350 per month ($NZ32 a month – $1 a day) and even that is breaking the bank. Worse yet, over 117000 civil servants have set up fraudulent claims to rort the system (no point in getting the snout in the trough if you’re not going to feed, eh).

The grants are pretty much the life blood of many towns. When the state can no longer pay those then violence will break out.

Energy drives modern economies and is broken. Eskom (the SOE power producer I worked for in the 1980s) has constant outages and breakdowns. Quite often they have rolling blackouts/load shedding. This destroys manufacturing. Municipalities generally sell retail power and many are billions of dollars behind in payments and have no chance of ever repaying.

South Africa lacks oil, but does have some coal& gas to oil synthesis plants – nowhere near enough to provide for itself. There have been some large gas finds recently, but after all the hype there has been very little effort commercialising these – probably mostly due to lack of investment, threats of nationalisation as well as the gas being deep in a high-current area and therefore challenging to work.

Petrol/diesel now costs R20 a litre, so basically the same as the minimum hourly wage. Imaging working a whole week to fill up a tank on a small car!

The riots in KNZ a few months ago were just the start. There are indications that many of the burned out factories are not going to be rebuilt. Instead the owners are going to take the insurance payouts and rebuild elsewhere (Canada seems to be a popular destination).

The poverty is increasing (real poverty). People must eat and will commit any crime for food (I know I would).

Crime is up, with murders spiking above the levels when Black “freedom” groups were killing eachother towards the end of apartheid (late 1980s/early 1990s). Some of this is due to desperation that is spiraling out of control and the cops being completely swamped.

So South Africa is a dead man walking. The only question is when it will fall over. Next year looks quite likely.

Hopefully we can identify some of the things going wrong there and try to not replicate them here. Hint: 3 waters is not on the right path. It is essentially no different from the nationalisation (and threats thereof) that have destroyed South African agriculture and manufacturing.
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October 27, 2021 11:01am
- westernScientest
  
  I realise its apples and oranges, but in terms of progression along the path to collapse, where would you put New Zealand?
  
  For example I kind of think of the modern peak in SA to be in the early 2000s after international sanctions stopped in the 90s and there was an economic boom. Then generally everything started to decline as there was more money, and so more welfare, more socialism etc. over the last 15 years or so it has just got worse and worse (although I am pretty ignorant and dont know much about the countries internal goings on)
  
  Is NZ where SA was in say 2005? or are we edging up on 2015?
  
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  October 27, 2021 11:34am
  - 0A
    
    From where I’m sitting, the radical underpinnings of a socialist government have been advanced at pace since this Labour government took office. Those being class division (rich / poor), racial division (3W, HP, Maori this and that), high taxation etc.
    
    How much more “nationalisation” of infrastructure (which 3W essentially is) will occur remains to be seen. The decline in government education standards is alarming. It’s difficult to put a finger on when / where in the two countries’ timeline NZ might be but from my perspective if this continues, the Litmus test will be how many qualified and skilled New Zealanders leave the country (when / if able to).
    
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    October 27, 2021 1:42pm
  - cmm
    
    I think they are on completely different timelines that cannot be compared, but there are still some common destructive threads.
    
    South Africa has a huge population of very poorly educated people. Very, very poorly. Productivity is incredibly low. Propensity to violence etc is high. Things like rape are completely out of control, with the majority of women in South Africa having been raped.
    
    Here at least most people are reasonably well educated (but that’s getting worse). Productivity is not too bad (but is getting worse). Non-violent & close to zero rape etc (if you exclude gangs).
    
    I very much doubt I will ever need to raise a weapon to anyone in NZ.
    
    NZ has far more margin to cope. When we had the Chch EQ, resources flooded in with people helping eachother. That would never happen in South Africa – not just because people care less, but mainly because people do not have surplus resources to help others.
    
    So at a civilian level I don’t think South Africa and NZ can be compared at all.
    
    Race-based hiring policies prevent the few well trained people that remain from participating effectively in society. We don’t have the same problem, but it would be different if the population was 80% Maori.
    
    What I am more concerned with are the destructive government forces of nationalisation etc. South Africa is spending up a storm and breaking the country. We are too, but we have a bit of reserve. They are doing dumb woke stuff like trying to go carbon neutral when they can’t afford to. Ditto.
    
    And, of course the Expropriation Without Compensation that threatens property ownership and investment in South Africa is mirrored in our 3 waters.
    
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    October 27, 2021 2:34pm
- 0A
  
  Not to mention the government’s completely asinine moves to remove self defence as a motivation to own a firearm.
  
  If there’s one thing that governments fear, especially in Africa, is when an armed populace turns on them.
  
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  October 27, 2021 11:42am
Reid

If you look overseas and Israel is the best example due to its early highly aggressive vax campaign, but other countries like e.g. UK shows a similar trend. Which is that about six months after your second vax your immune response to the spike protein has dropped to a level sufficient to require a booster. Israel mandated a booster for their passport a few months, UK is on the verge of doing the same, they will do the same thing here.

Bottom line is, anyone who’s been vaxed has turned their immune system into a subscription service. The chair of Moderna’s board said yesterday he thought yearly boosters would be an ongoing requirement.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/10/continuous-need-boosting-moderna-chairman-says-yearly-covid-boosters-may-required-video

They will I’m predicting tell you around March that you need a booster and if you don’t get it your rights revert to those of the unvaccinated.
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October 27, 2021 11:07am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Team of 5million Caught… hook, line and sinker.
  
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  October 27, 2021 11:46am
  - greybeard
    
    No chance.
    We are out here, just waiting.
    And watching.
    And listening.
    And planning.
    
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    October 27, 2021 6:37pm
westernScientest

Im sure medsafe will follow suit:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300439148/covid19-pfizerbiontech-vaccine-cleared-by-americas-fda-for-children-ages-5-to-11
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October 27, 2021 11:08am
Rusty

Our PM makes no apologies for creating the division between vaxxed and unvaxxed people.

But that is not the only division she has caused among all Nzers.

* Maori and non-Maori people.

* Rich and poor people.

* Christian and non- christian people.

* Hetero-sexual and non-hetero people.

* Climate change and non-climate change people.

The list could go and on.

Old Marxist tactic — create divisions and problems in society and then solve them to your advantage.
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October 27, 2021 11:09am
JohnnyOverton

As anticipated, Mahuta & her fascistic, ratbag, ethno-nationalist mob will not be stopped. The decision to push 3 waters through while we’re under lockdown & people can’t take to the streets in protest, is beyond sneaky.

This will really test the metal of kiwis who oppose this legislation, as nationwide public protests will now be the only way to force Ardern to reconsider.

My activist days are pretty much behind me but this news has forced me to consider taking to the streets again.

Largely because of current restrictions, we in the Mainland should lead the résistance. What has come to mind is a march on Wellington, which could begin in Invercargill. I’m sure councils along the way would find places to put people up for the night.
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October 27, 2021 11:28am
- Gravelroad
  
  Not disagreeing with you about protesting, Johnny Overton, but the reality may be that we as a society have become too controlled and ground down to bother.
  Most people don’t care about where stuff comes from or how it is “made”, as long as the water keeps coming out of the tap and the lights go on when you press the switch.
  
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  October 27, 2021 12:42pm
  - westernScientest
    
    they still care how much it costs though, and it will sure increase a lot if this goes through
    
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    October 27, 2021 12:44pm
slightlyrighty

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/126797566/government-pushes-ahead-with-three-waters-reform-will-take-water-assets-from-councils?cid=app-android

Can you say “hubris”?
14 0
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October 27, 2021 11:29am
- Ehlana
  
  How you know the government know they’re being underhanded:
  “Mahuta said the public would have a chance to have their say during the select committee process which would begin after legislation was put before Parliament in December.”
  
  That’s right. You’ll have the opportunity to have your say. Probably released for public consultation around Friday 17 December with submissions closing about Friday 7 January.
  
  On the other hand, you may have nothing else to do over Christmas…
  
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  October 27, 2021 3:26pm
Reid

One of the more interesting aspects of Covid is its fatality rate. Considering all of this is being done to the whole world, you’d think the disease responsible would be wiping out huge numbers of people.

I was watching a video yesterday who claimed he’d talked in his professional capacity to various healthcare professionals and to those he felt would be comfortable discussing Covid he asked them what they thought this rate was. None of them knew. These are healthcare professionals.

To find it yourself just type “infection fatailty rate covid-2” into any search engine and read the studies. The one at the top of duck duck is a meta-analysis (study of studies) from the WHO. Guess what it says the infection fatality rate is: between 0.23 and 0.27%. This is from the WHO. So if we take it as 0.25% this means that of all the people infected with Covid in every country to date, only 1 in 400 die.

And the world is going through this, why?
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October 27, 2021 11:37am
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  It is also the quality of adjusted life years metric, in that many who die (not all, but vast majority) were going to drop off their perch soon enough any way.
  Covid prefers to take the low hanging fruit.
  
  I had a morbidly obese work mate in ICU for flu this winter – Covid might well knock him off, but I don’t see him slamming any less energy drinks after he left hospital.
  His life, his choice.
  Protect the vulnerable IF they want it, and let’s open up.
  
  Vulnerable old persons want human contact. If you have a few years left, then why spend two of them locked down?
  Radius care is choosing to ignore government restrictions and open up homes to grandkids and the like (-with management plans in place-).
  Balance risk, personal responsibility, informed consent – these are the missing nuances and why I applaud Radius care on a sensible conclusion.
  The treating of the entire population like infantile prisoners is not the correct response.
  Let the fearful fear, and let the living live.
  
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  October 27, 2021 1:07pm
- fernglas
  
  Reid. To further put it in perspective, if 80% of New Zealanders catch the virus, and 1 in 400 cases is fatal, your statistic means 10,000 of them will die. That actually seems way too high when judges against countries where the virus was widespread, such as India.
  
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  October 27, 2021 6:56pm
  - Reid
    
    Yeah it does against India but remember India was using IVM in many states. Utter Pradesh province is the standout. Started distributing IVM plus others in a Covid blister pack, for use prophylacticaly (i.e. as a preventative). They used to have thousands of cases/day, last few days, 3-4 cases, per day, in a province with 243 million people and obviously since it’s India, poor ICU capability.
    
    Japan has the same outcome, which also authorised it in also IIRC in Sept.
    
    “Experts are extremely puzzled” over how this was done, apparently. Fake news hasn’t got around to telling us it was IVM.
    
    Wonder why.
    
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    October 27, 2021 8:27pm
Cinematic

I see the FDA’s advisory committee has approved the pfizer jab for kids.

Apparently the benefits outweigh the risks after 98 deaths out of 28 million. Because according to one of the committee members ‘every one of those kids had a name’. Everyone who dies ‘having a name’ seems to have escaped this muppet.

Watch next for the Bumbling Biden to mandate this for access to schools. Madness.
15 1
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October 27, 2021 11:37am
- MCos
  
  I won’t be watching.
  
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  October 27, 2021 10:33pm
Maggy Wassilieff

I know it is still a bit early in the year, but can I nominate Mandatory as word of the year?

#Three waters reforms will be mandatory for councils
#It is currently mandatory for people aged 12 and over to wear a face covering when taking public transport or going into businesses.

#https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-response-planning/covid-19-mandatory-vaccinations
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October 27, 2021 11:40am
westernScientest

Yep, I trust them I’m sure health records and where we have been will stay private, just like a gun register would never become a criminal shopping list.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300439012/acc-staff-caught-posting-private-details-of-clients-to-snapchat-group
12 1
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October 27, 2021 11:43am
graham

Here’s one show I intend stocking up on popcorn to watch.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/rawiri-waititi-slams-grossly-inappropriate-trevor-mallard-in-parliament-stoush/VFUMQ6TPQUFNX53UCDSRUUX5ZA/

Rawiri Waititi slams ‘grossly inappropriate’ Trevor Mallard in Parliament stoush

Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi has accused the Government and Speaker Trevor Mallard of co-ordinating an attack on his party in Parliament.

He has now complained to the Speaker, who suggested a former Māori Party president was hindering vaccine rollout plans during a debate on Wednesday, labelling Mallard’s conduct “grossly inappropriate and unbecoming of your position as Speaker”.

The spat occurred as Waititi was questioning Deputy Prime Minister Grant Robertson on whether the vaccine rollout had delivered for Māori.

Covid-19 Minister Chris Hipkins jumped into the fray, asking Robertson whether “having prominent Māori political figures actively discouraging people from being vaccinated help or hinder the vaccination effort”.

This, of course, is all around Pem Bird in Murupapa, who has basically said they (Maori in Murupara) want to take a different vaccine instead of Pfizer, and no way are they going to do what the Government tells them to.
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October 27, 2021 11:45am
I remember when

Another misdirected effort by Murdoch.
Today’s cartoon suggests, completely without any justification, that by being at Level 2 the South Isand has dodged a bullet.
What has been dodged is any sort of planning or work to allow them to operate outside of this Level.
21 1
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October 27, 2021 11:49am
westernScientest

more signs we are up sh*t creek – record trade deficit

https://www.interest.co.nz/business/112929/statistics-nz-says-september-was-third-record-month-row-imports-figure-reaching-66
14 0
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October 27, 2021 12:09pm
- rangitoto
  
  Imagine the situation if the current government shut down dairy farming.
  
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  October 27, 2021 12:50pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    That is underway. Planting trees on farmland is very short sighted speculative move.
    
    What was the farmland created in the first place? Is it anything to do with NZ having a good climate for agricultural production? Even beef can be grown on higher country.
    The grrrrrrrrn climate change mobsters should be made to eat Gates bug foods as punishment.
    
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    October 27, 2021 4:23pm
    - westernScientest
      
      Thats not even the half of it. It will be the climate change and fresh water compliance that kills them. Not just the rules themselves, but the hoops that have to be jumped through to show they are complying with the regulation that will be the killer.
      
      Make sure you turn out on November 21 to support ground swell.
      
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      October 27, 2021 4:46pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Wait till they remove the Tiwai Point aluminium output sales too.
  NZ can’t keep stripping away our foreign exchange earners without serious difficulties arising.
  What is our Minister of Finance doing to keep NZ working?
  
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  October 27, 2021 4:19pm
  - westernScientest
    
    It is surprising how few people understand this
    
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    October 27, 2021 4:48pm
Aguy

Lockdowns sucknbut in the plus side I was able to pay down most of my debts with all the money saved not going out.
5 0
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October 27, 2021 12:20pm
- Aguy
  
  Should be a full stop where the n is but unfortunately my fat fingers pressed the n button and I did not proofread before posting
  
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  October 27, 2021 12:37pm
Fletch

A break from Covid.

Jaime Costa’s incredible impression, (“test footage”) portraying Robin Williams. There is no biopic being made, but there really should be. The original footage has been taken down, but this one has subtitles (which I hope you can ignore).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zveh4tV3NCU
2 1
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October 27, 2021 12:20pm
Sofia

Mahuta endeavoured to bribe councils to agree to the “3 Waters” take-over of assets.
Mahuta established that certain payouts were due to certain councils to compensate them for asset losses.
If those amounts were valid due to the transfer of assets, now that Muhuta is mandating the change she wants, will the compensatory finances still be paid out, having supposedly been established as legitimate on the assets transfer?

Dissident council says Govt has offered it $90m to participate in water reforms
Whangārei mayor Sheryl Mai has provided Newsroom a report her council commissioned from global economic consultants Castalia. She says it debunks Local Government Minister Nanaia Mahuta’s claims that amalgamating the water services into four big regional authorities would save money.

… Mai says the Government has offered Whangārei – the loudest critic of the reforms – an extra $90m financial sustainability payment to sign up.
That is on top of $38m “better off” funding to improve its water, housing and jobs infrastructure, and another $5m allocation to compensate for stranded assets.

… the loss of Whangārei’s water assets and revenue would have the effect of lowering its credit rating a notch, and lowering its headroom to borrow by $90m – hence the provisional of a financial sustainability payment.

… other councils that may be entitled to financial sustainability allocations are South Waikato ($19m), Manawatū ($2m), Hutt City ($28m), Wellington ($158m), Waitaki ($10m) and Dunedin ($2m).
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/govts-90m-offer-to-dissident-council
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October 27, 2021 12:35pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Dan Bongino. Janet Yellen (full blown commie) on wealth Tax.
https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=388980776213820&_rdr
4 2
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October 27, 2021 1:20pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

3 waters. If you did not know NZ had a swamp, you do now. Drain it!
8 3
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October 27, 2021 1:47pm
- westernScientest
  
  i dont know, looking at what is on the surface it might be best just to fill it in with gravel and build on top of it. I dont want to know what is in there if mahuta comes to the surface occasionally.
  
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  October 27, 2021 4:51pm
Bluegrass

Why is it that now, when a moderator enters the debate in his own right, and not as Moderator per se, that there is no right of reply – just a report option?

Batman is an example- see above.

Are moderators now a protected species?
8 3
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October 27, 2021 1:50pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  You can reply using his previous comment. It will appear below the other comments. Seems when the comments get many replies they go into report mode. Batman is not trying to deceive you
  
  8 1
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  October 27, 2021 2:09pm
Tony Stuart

Judith Collins on the Three Waters decision:

I am appalled that the Government is marching ahead with mandating Three Waters as announced by Minister Mahuta today.

This is an asset and power grab.

Minister Mahuta has refused to take on board the resounding opposition of councils, mayors, and the people of New Zealand.

Make no mistake, I will repeal Three Waters and reverse the asset grab when National are in Government again.

https://www.facebook.com/judithcollinsmp/photos/a.561252630619161/4421095667968152

It’s incredibly arrogant for the Government to force this proposal on councils, when so many councils have been overwhelmingly opposed to Three Waters. It’s also telling that Jacinda Ardern was nowhere to be seen when Nanaia Mahuta made her announcement an hour or so ago. This certainly comes across as a win to Labour’s Maori caucus.
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October 27, 2021 1:56pm
- Jack5
  
  The Ardernist-bought news media will bury protests against the Maori water takeover.
  
  Let’s spread the Collins message ourselves.
  
  15 1
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  October 27, 2021 2:55pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Hey! Poopoos, Mahuta has fallen in again. Proposes to sell our water off to Nestles too and they (Maori elite) can get a nice big take.
    
    5 3
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    October 27, 2021 4:29pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      How much of our water is Nestlé buying, Kev?
      
      2 0
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      October 27, 2021 4:59pm
Chuck Bird

FYI

Neil Oliver: ‘Hey Government, we are not stupid’

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDl0s7nm5YY
7 1
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October 27, 2021 1:58pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  A Scot that speaks clear
  
  4 2
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  October 27, 2021 3:57pm
Bridgenag

Sadly…
0 3
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October 27, 2021 2:19pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Fauci lies about lying. Beware, some of this comes via CNN – known liars.
https://rumble.com/vo9n1t-supercut-faucis-lies-exposed-as-he-makes-them.html?
7 2
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October 27, 2021 2:37pm
Ehlana

Today’s misleading Herald headline: “Woman bulldozed in terrifying cycling incident caught on film”

More accurately – woman paying no attention, apparently unaware that there was a road cycling race going on all around her, despite the pedestrian barriers at the side of the footpath and the crowds lining the route, walks out into the path of the oncoming cyclists, putting the lead rider in hospital and costing him the race.

How dumb can you be?
11 2
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October 27, 2021 3:32pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  No comments from Men or ‘others’
  They are all outside pretending to get fresh non covid air …
  
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  October 27, 2021 4:08pm
Reid

Interesting to see the UK is rolling out a trial social credit system this coming January.

https://twitter.com/leejamesLC/status/1452360400889131014
3 3
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October 27, 2021 4:29pm
Lucia Maria

Whoever mentioned the Herald never allowing comments on Derek Cheng’s political pieces recently, they have listened!

Derek Cheng – Why Jacinda Ardern has done a u-turn and wants two classes of Kiwis

You do need premium access to read the article and presumably the comments.

Looks like they are also allowing more debate in the comments – maybe it got too hard to jump on every anti-govt-mandate type comment.

There’s a tiny bit of balance in the article:

Otago University Associate Professor and medical ethics lecturer Angela Ballantyne said the key question was whether the limits on the unvaccinated are justified.

It’s a big deal to limit the freedoms of people who don’t do something that’s voluntary, she told Q+A, and it was up to the Government to explain why it’s necessary in a way that ensures a high degree of public buy-in.

It’s also relevant to consider whether the goal could be achieved with fewer restrictions.

Hey Herald editors, how about putting in something more reflective of the major problems of restricting social participation just to those who fall into line.

Do. Your. Job. As. Journalists.

Until you do, you are just the propaganda arm of the government.
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October 27, 2021 4:35pm
Lucia Maria

Climate change protesters glue hands to Parliament steps

Maybe six protestor types in the photo, one with bright blue hair. Three of them stayed overnight with their hands glued to the steps.

How did they go to the bathroom??
5 1
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October 27, 2021 4:57pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Look Mum, no hands
  
  2 2
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  October 27, 2021 5:31pm
- westernScientest
  
  lol. At least one of them is wearing wool, rather than a petrochemical hoodie
  
  3 1
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  October 27, 2021 5:36pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  I would leave glued till crapped themselves.
  
  4 2
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  October 27, 2021 5:36pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Some people can be committed to a cause. I’m pretty sure there were plenty of Christian martyrs who didn’t need bathroom breaks.
  
  2 5
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  October 27, 2021 7:46pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    St Bonaventure is the patron saint of of bowel disorders, for example, although there is no reliable record of his movements.
    
    2 2
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    October 27, 2021 7:53pm
fernglas

“Te Tai Tokerau Border Control founder Hone Harawira has slammed a current anti-lockdown hīkoi calling it the “white man’s march to nowhere”.
It looks pretty brown to me; a hikoi from Rotorua to Te Ti Marae under the banner of the 1835 Declaration of the United Tribes.But then Hone is always pretty quick to blame Pakeha for his own people’s stupid behaviour.
8 1
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October 27, 2021 7:06pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Well, Harawira couldn’t even get along with his fellow MPs in the Maori Party, so I’m just going to class him as a chap who can get along with almost no one, like his cousin Winston Peters.
  
  5 1
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  October 27, 2021 7:43pm
- Fletch
  
  Yep, saw them on the news. Not all of them are Maori, of course, but it seems a Maori led protest.
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:40pm
fernglas

If 84% of the eligible population have had their first vaccine dose, and 95% of those go on to get a second dose, you are at an effective vaccination level of about 80%, so there is a long way to go to get to 90%
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October 27, 2021 7:20pm
- Jim
  
  Solid gold hypocrisy
  
  2 0
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  October 27, 2021 8:50pm
emmess

Boycott Peter Gordon’s businesses
https://player.fm/series/the-mike-hosking-breakfast/peter-gordon-celebrity-chef-welcomes-governments-vaccine-mandate-for-restaurant-workers

https://www.kiwiharvest.org.nz/peter-gordon
8 1
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October 27, 2021 7:43pm
fernglas

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/454318/covid-19-updates-medsafe-ready-to-move-quickly-on-vaccine-for-kids
So we are ready to start vaccinating children from 5 years up. I have a couple of questions.

1) Why are we vaccinating children when they are highly unlikely to have bad outcomes from Covid?
( about one child per million population in the UK has died of Covid. In New Zealand, therefore, a child is about three times more likely to be beaten to death by their parents than die of Covid)

2) If the vaccinations are to protect unvaccinated adults, is that in the least bit moral?

3) Will the age group of 5 upwards be added to the eligible population for the purposes of determining the 90% target?
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October 27, 2021 8:03pm
- fernglas
  
  To answer my own third question, there are about 500,000 kids between 5 and 12, so to get to 90% you will have to vaccinate 450,000 of them twice to reach that figure. Good luck with that, NZ, but then you are world leaders, aren’t you?
  
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  October 27, 2021 8:17pm
- Lucia Maria
  
  Now they come for the children, wonder if that will become mandatory for school attendance as well.
  
  4 1
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  October 27, 2021 9:31pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    It would be very inconsistent if it were not. But then Labour are routinely all over the place like a mad …
    So who knows?
    
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    October 27, 2021 10:06pm
  - Rich Prick
    
    Yes. “Two shots” according to the latest add, or kids can’t have sex. I’m bewildered by, and disgusted with this Government advertising. It’s just weird.
    
    1 2
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    October 27, 2021 10:29pm
Lucia Maria

New Zealand’s hypocrisy on climate change | Sky News Australia Video

The Kenny Report on NZ looking to divest ourselves of bonds by high carbon emitters: Canada & Australia.

The hypocrisy is to do with Aussie’s carbon emissions going down while as ours will go up.

Very simplistic, but the climate change bandwagon, etc is simplistic. Lots of comments by Kiwis who want a different PM.
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October 27, 2021 9:29pm
septic skeptic

So Andrew little calls out the Americans for their “bullshit” pricing on Trikafta.
Now will that make Pharmac’s job easier or harder?
This is truly the worst bunch of inept misfits ever assembled into a cabinet!
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October 27, 2021 9:43pm

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