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October 25, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 25 October 2021

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General Debate

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krazykiwi

Fiction: Team of five million. Kindness.

Fact: Deliberately manufactured enmity between: –
– Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed
– Maori vs non-Maori
– Auckland vs rest of country
– North vs South
– NZers at home vs NZers abroad
– Family member vs family member

There is no social, medical, epidemiological nor moral justification for the devastation Ardern is visiting on the fabric of our society. Her lust for power, lubricated by the absence of functioning media, and by a spineless opposition has damaged New Zealand for several generations hence. I feel nauseated thinking of the failed country for which I’ll be asking my grandchildren to assume responsibility.
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October 25, 2021 8:00am
- igm
  
  Media is functioning; unfortuately editorial policy has been bought (with taxpayers’ money, borrowed) by Ardern and it must comply with communist bias or be defunded.
  
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  October 25, 2021 8:07am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Even without the disgusting corrupti…er I mean politically motivated taxpayer media funding, the mainstream media is absolutely filled to the brim with far left narrative pushing posers anyway.
    
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    October 25, 2021 5:42pm
- pdm
  
  mrspdm and I withdrew from her supposed team of 5million in April of last year.
  
  After about a week we were sick and tired of being spoken to like kindergarten children.
  
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  October 25, 2021 8:47am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Isuspect the tipping point is near. It will be the failure of Maori to get vaxxed. Even the Raelenes will turn on Cindy and the Government. The suppressed anger at Maori Priviledge will surface.
  The good news is the Government will back track on 3 Waters He Puapua and the rest of their secret Maorification agenda.
  Their desire for power will trump their ideology. They know if they continue with their agenda they will go down in flames and the next Governmeent will reverse whatever they have put in place and vow to not continue.
  Remember non Maori make up around 85% of the population and it only takes 51% to decide they dont like a certain direction to change a government.
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:51am
- Ruawai
  
  KrazyKiwi, Divide and conquer!
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:26am
- crikey
  
  I was with you until you associated the opposition with Ardern’s antics. The opposition has no control over what Ardern is doing in the circumstances you point out (with which I agree).
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:35am
- Ian Boag
  
  So (hypothetically) I am the CEO of an organisation with quite a few staff many of whom face the public and have contact with each other and I have decided on a “no jab no job” policy.
  
  Why? I have a legal health and safety responsibility to take all reasonable steps to protect my staff from adverse consequences in their employment. A staff member infected by contact with an unvaxed staff member could well bring a health and safety case against the firm. As the (hypothetical) CEO of this firm I just can’t be bothered with this possibility.
  
  One could argue that the case would fail, but who knows? Perhaps those who think this way could start a givealittle page to support the firm’s legal costs ….
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:53am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    “Befehl ist befehl”.
    
    Indeed. Many said the same thing to no avail in 1946.
    
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    October 25, 2021 11:30am
    - Bluegrass
      
      You cannot beat an entrenched mala fides State without bloodshed or external coercion.
      
      And as you are using German: Und die Zukunft? Antwort – Wir haben Befehl sie festnehmen. [And the future? Answer – we have orders to arrest you].
      
      Maybe the future is now.
      
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      October 25, 2021 5:59pm
  - Salacious Crumb
    
    What would your H&S liability be then if you mandated an employee have a vaccine they don’t want and they suffer a severe adverse event? I would assume that as you have demonstrably coerced a treatment they didn’t want causing injury you would now be liable. That would be more expensive for you I suspect.
    
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    October 25, 2021 12:11pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      I posed a question. You chose to answer a different one. Good one ….
      
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      October 25, 2021 6:14pm
    - Bluegrass
      
      An employer is legally obliged to comply with the law. There is no question of coercion/HSE liability if the employer is complying with the law.
      
      Whether the law/Covid law is good or bad is irrelevant. That is a legislative issue for the politicians.
      
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      October 25, 2021 6:15pm
  - rouppe
    
    Why would the risk of a legal case be any greater than a h&s legal case from any other infection?
    
    If employee A got the flu and came to work infecting employee b who then had to take sick leave, employee b cannot – or at least I’ve never heard of and example – take a legal case against the employer.
    
    Rather if you offered extended or distinct paid leave packages for vaccinated employees in that situation, you would be pretty safe, And be opposing Ardern’s national socialist push
    
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    October 25, 2021 12:19pm
    - Aurelia
      
      Top comment !
      
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      October 25, 2021 12:43pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      That is a sick pay issue – not an H & S issue.
      
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      October 25, 2021 1:25pm
      - rouppe
        
        That helps with Ian’s concern about legal vulnerability forcing him to comply with Ardern when he doesn’t want to.
        
        If you crack open the door of liability for medical issues it’ll just get worse. Just look at all the govt departments singing wiata every morning these days
        
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        October 25, 2021 2:53pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      employee b cannot – or at least I’ve never heard of and example – take a legal case against the employer.
      
      You are probably right. AFAIK Worksafe does them. Now if Worksafe will make a blanket statement that unvaxed workers are not an H&S issue then I as this hypothetical CEO would be OK with that.
      
      Various anonymous folk opining on a blog, not so much. Telling me there is no risk, but not in any way accepting responsibility for possible outcomes.
      
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      October 25, 2021 6:33pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    A staff member has no ability to “bring a health and safety case against the firm” so your argument fails to get off the ground.
    
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    October 25, 2021 12:45pm
  - fisho
    
    The key is understanding how effective vaccination is at preventing someone from passing COVID on to someone else. This is something I’ve been trying to get more information on (for professional reasons) and haven’t been able to find much that’s definitive. This contrasts with information relating to the effectiveness of preventing infection of the vaccinated person or minimising the effects in the case of an infection, of which there is a fair amount of information available.
    I’m assuming, call me a conspiracist, that this lack of information is because it actually isn’t that effective at lowering the infectiousness of the carrier, maybe it even increases the risk due to less symptoms being present?
    If the above is even slightly accurate then the argument for a vaccine mandate is on shakey ground to say the least. Vaccination becomes a personal protective measure rather than protection of the ‘team’. Meaning, provided people are given the opportunity to vaccinate, they also have the right to refuse.
    I’ve been double vaccinated for quite some time by the way, so this post relates to freedom of choice. I deplore how everyone who doesn’t want the COVID jab are labelled ‘anti-vaccers’ effectively framing them in the same manner as anti MMR or the likes. Great way of turning the populace against one another though eh!
    
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    October 25, 2021 2:11pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      The anti vaxxer label, like the conspiracy theorist label is intellectual laziness of the worst kind. It is also intended as a smear and to dismiss any further discussion as irrelevant by the use of either label. It is only used by those without the ability to argue their position in any substantial way.
      Best ignoring anyone who uses either term.
      
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      October 25, 2021 5:52pm
      - Bluegrass
        
        It is Pro-choice.
        
        Anathema to the leftards, because to them Socialism is so good that it’s compulsory.
        
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        October 25, 2021 6:30pm
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Why are the unvaccinated such a threat to the vaccinated ? If they are what’s the point in being vaccinated? If you have to have everyone vaccinated before it’s effective it can’t be much good. This whole thing is a monstrous lie.
    
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    October 25, 2021 3:03pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      It is looking more like the risk is the other way around: an asymptomatic, previously vaxxed person has higher viral load than does an asymptomatic unvaxxed. Given that theses vaccines are non-sterilizing this is significant.
      
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      October 25, 2021 5:55pm
  - alloytoo
    
    What happens if an unvaxxed person is infected by a vaxed person?
    
    or even another vaxed person infected by a vaxed person?
    
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    October 25, 2021 4:21pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    What if your vaccinated staff have higher viral load while they are asymptotic? The latest research is increasingly showing this to be the case.
    
    What if your unvaccinated, infected then recovered staff have broader, more durable protection that the vaccinated? The latest research is increasingly showing this to be the case.
    
    Or, I guess, one could just accept Cindy Kindy and the paid-up fans club’s assertions to vaxx to the max while she surveys the next placement of the soon to be moved goalposts.
    
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    October 25, 2021 5:51pm
- Red Rooster
  
  You assume they will still be in NZ, mine aren’t.
  
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  October 25, 2021 11:20am
PhilBest

A friend drew my attention recently to postings Ian Wishart has been making on Facebook and a couple of other forums. His whole activity seems to be sporadic and not at all organized like the old main website he ran as a spin-off from “Investigate”. But what was astonishing was his complete sell-out on Covid alarmism and “the vaccines”. I have pulled out my copy of “Totalitaria” and re-read the chapter titled “Health Control”, and I am wondering what has happened to the real Ian Wishart, and who is the person now posting online under his name???
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October 25, 2021 8:00am
- Charmaine Hawke
  
  One of the strangest things during this pandemic has been seeing those you respected sell out like Wishart appears to have done and those you have ridiculed show they get it, Russel Brand being one such person.
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:12am
  - Michael Johnston
    
    It’s important to remember that neither courage to stand one’s ground in the face of tyranny nor love of freedom are the sole preserves of the left or the right. In times like these, old political disagreements become trivial compared with the neccesity to stand with those of whatever persuasion who share our desire to return to normalcy and who have the will to speak out.
    
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    October 25, 2021 11:25am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Possibly the most important thing to remember in all of this. Possibly Ardern has done something useful, shown that partisan politics is entertaining but not the be all and end all of what it means to be human.
      
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      October 25, 2021 12:08pm
  - IndividualResponsibility
    
    Charmaine Hawke – Russel Brand is a most perplexing character. He used to drive me nuts; now I follow him!!!!
    another perplexing character is Neil Oliver – watch this amazing (if not scary) 7:40 sec clip “Hey Government, we are not stupid” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDl0s7nm5YY ”
    from a recent GBNews. Listen for the bit about the Behavioral Insights Unit, AKA the “NUDGE UNIT” – if that doesn’t scare us, nothing will.
    
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    October 25, 2021 4:54pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Certainly looks as though Ardern was sent the UK behavioural insight team playbook the minute it rolled off the printing press. She’s followed exactly the same system of terrorising people into complying with whatever she says, no matter how ludicrous and contradictory the situation. Like the whole idea of wearing a mask on a plane, except when you’re eating or drinking then you can take it off. That has no basis in science whatsoever, except behavioural science.
      Reminds me of the wonderful person who flew from the the UK to Gran Canaria and spent the whole 3 and a half hour flight eating a tube of Pringles. Someone worked it out mathematically, one every 3 minutes or something like that, but I simply admired the protest at the stupidity of the rule.
      
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      October 25, 2021 6:04pm
- Mr_Blobby
  
  They got to him.
  
  Probably a shadow of his former self.
  
  It is something that tyrants are good at.
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:25am
fernglas

If businesses will not be allowed to access Covid support payments if they don’t have a vaccine mandate, will workers who lose their jobs because they refuse to be vaccinated, be unable to access benefits? Will anybody who is in receipt of taxpayer funding be obliged to be vaccinated or lose access to that funding?
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October 25, 2021 8:00am
- KevO'Brien
  
  More lawlessness from this ill breathed govt. If it’s against the Nuremberg Convention that applies across the whole of the govt’s doings and cannot be fenced off like Ardern’s mind.
  Time to attack this maladministration.
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:15am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The other day someone (dunno who) told me the Nuremberg Code was not actually Law. I left it, waiting for some of the legal people here to share their comments. Did not seem to happen.
    I always figured if NZ was a member of the UN, then the Nuremberg Code would be Law and we would have to comply, not just obey whatever the fuck Jaspinda says.
    Anyone enlighten us please?
    
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    October 25, 2021 9:51am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Steve, It may have been me. Have a read of this: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199711133372006
      
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      October 25, 2021 10:01am
      - Okahu
        
        So assuming you have read that document krazy, particularly this part…
        
        “The Nuremberg Code has not been officially adopted in its entirety as law by any nation or as ethics by any major medical association.”
        
        Why do you keep banging on about how our government is contravening it? Perhaps you can list a few other quasi-legal doctrines or codes that we can get exercised over not conforming to despite never having committed to?
        
        Of course the issues this code has elaborated on have been incorporated into our modern society and increasingly ethics committees and other oversight bodies safeguard the interest of the subject of any study in mind. As is right. Why even the UN, a much deplored body in these parts has incorporated the ideas of the Code.
        
        But it is not New Zealand law as confirmed after publication of an OIA from the MOH on this very blog some months ago.
        
        The Public Health Act is our law and provides the powers that are being employed today. That Act was produced long before this administration was obliged by circumstances to employ its measures in our interest. Perhaps your fear and anger might better be employed railing at our laws rather than this Mengele inspired Code you bang on about.
        
        For what it’s worth, I suspect you haven’t taken up my challenge to you and your supporters to act on your fears and bring a legal challenge to our vaccination programme and our use of lockdowns because you know you are sitting on a busted flush. Our country’s law courts will not override our employment of Public Health Act powers by declaring either vaccinations a medical experiment being conducted on unconsenting victims. Nor will they rush to accept the argument we are at all bound by any international commitment we have not formally signed up to.
        
        … [Deleted – make your points without the condescending sneers idiot. mod.]
        
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        October 25, 2021 12:31pm
      - Okahu
        
        Likewise then mod, likewise.
        
        [Done deliberately to make the point, QED. mod.]
        
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        October 25, 2021 1:25pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I still hear comments about Law, then not Law. When will it be tested in Court? I have yet to see an official document saying it is false.
        Saw a puff piece opinion from some Canadian ‘expert’ Just opinion. Canadians are a bit funny – they are talking about covid vaccinating in Toronto Zoo ffs
        
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        October 25, 2021 1:57pm
      - mawm
        
        To Okahu –
        We are members of the UN and as such have an obligation to adhere to their commandments.
        1) The Universal Declaration of Human Rights which specifically upholds the right to equality and freedom of movement (NB after Jacinda’s comment about the unvaccinated), and healthcare (for those calling for the unvaccinated to not be treated).
        2) Universal Declaration on Bioethics and Human Rights – Article 1 specifically addresses ethical issues related to medicine, life sciences and associated technologies as applied to human beings.
        – Article 6 – Any preventive, diagnostic and therapeutic medical intervention is only to be carried out with the prior, free and informed consent of the person concerned, based on adequate information. The consent should, where appropriate, be express and may be withdrawn by the person concerned at any time and for any reason without disadvantage or prejudice.
        – Article 9 The privacy of the persons concerned and the confidentiality of their personal information should be respected. To the greatest extent possible, such information should not be used or disclosed for purposes other than those for which it was collected or consented to,.. (This certainly questions the ethics of vaccine passport.)
        – Article 11 No individual or group should be discriminated against or stigmatised on any grounds.
        – Article 14 2(d) …elimination of the marginalisation and the exclusion of persons on the basis of any grounds
        
        As we are part of the international community we should respect the Declaration of Helsinki. Even although this declaration deals with research this vaccination program can be deemed to be such due to the lack of long term trials on human subjects. We are the trial!
        Quote – “Even though the Declaration of Helsinki is the responsibility of the World Medical Association, the document should be considered the property of all humanity.”
        The fundamental principle is respect for the individual (Article 8), his right to self-determination and the right to make informed decisions (Articles 20, 21 and 22), the subject’s welfare must always take precedence over the interests of science and society (Article 5), and ethical considerations must always take precedence over laws and regulations (Article 9).
        
        NZ Health and Disability Commissioner – Code of Rights
        Right 2 – The right to freedom from discrimination, coercion, harassment, and exploitation.
        Right 6 – The right to be fully informed.
        Right 7- The right to make an informed choice and give informed consent.
        
        So you can see that Jacinda is breaching much of what has been determined by the international community as our rights to body autonomy and to not to be discriminated against for refusing any medical treatment.
        
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        October 25, 2021 5:36pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  Why not? We’re very keen round here to see contraception or even sterilisation as a condition of eligibility for benefit payments. What’s the difference?
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:04am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    Oh well, it looks as if I’ll have to answer my own question.
    
    The difference is that mandating contraception or sterilisation as a condition of benefit entitlement enables public control over women’s bodies, and that’s OK or even desirable (see debates about abortion).
    
    However, mandating covid vaccination as a condition of benefit entitlement amounts to public control over men’s bodies as well, and that is a flagrant violation.
    
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    October 25, 2021 11:52am
    - alloytoo
      
      Men can be sterilized too.
      
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      October 25, 2021 4:28pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    It’s a crime against humanity to experiment on populations. Individuals must give their consent procedure by procedure.
    I haven’t followed the tortuous route of this into NZ law but I believe the NC is in force in NZ as superior law through, at the minimum, our general acceptance of the UN conventions and their application.
    
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    October 25, 2021 1:30pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Did you not read Okahu’s careful explanation above?
      
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      October 25, 2021 5:22pm
      - fernglas
        
        It didn’t need to be that careful. It is not part of our law because it has never been adopted by Parliament. End of story.
        
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        October 25, 2021 5:55pm
- Ruawai
  
  Will they stop benefits if unvaccinated?
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:28am
  - Okahu
    
    I see that thought is finding some approval here. Though despite the strange idea that super-annuitants are not on a benefit (a convenient deceit) is common here I suspect some of the enthusiasm is the imagined hardship of the ‘others’ that would be impacted.
    
    Still, perhaps the idea has merit. I have opined on this blog that our choices should be user pays. If we choose to be costly to society, expecting to freeload on the health efforts of others and then have access to more extensive healthcare for longer as a consequence of that choice, perhaps we need to account for those costs in advance. A 10% docking of all benefits of those unvaccinated without satisfactory medical reasons might be a start.
    
    Much as if you expect to live well in your retirement the time to put some resources aside is not as you join the ranks of the retirees.
    
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    October 25, 2021 12:47pm
    - alloytoo
      
      Statistically the super-annuitants are probably the most vaxed portion of the population.
      
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      October 25, 2021 4:29pm
    - mawm
      
      Now do that for the obese, the alcoholics, the drug users.
      
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      October 25, 2021 5:49pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Of course that would apply to anyone doing any activity that involved risk which could be avoided by not partaking? Like cleaning your gutters up a ladder? Who is going to write the puritanical code that defines the “health efforts of others” as you so wonderfully describe it? If I am vegan, do yoga, never drive a car, don’t smoke, drink or take part in any physical activity does that make me an A+ for medical treatment?
      That’s going to be one hell of a manual. Are you proposing to write it? Are you a Wellington bureaucrat by any chance and this is your wet dream?
      
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      October 25, 2021 6:12pm
      - Bluegrass
        
        Expressio unius est exclusio alterius.
        
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        October 25, 2021 6:46pm
    - bronny1
      
      Make sure you dock the fatties for their treatment when they get covid too. And the smokers and anyone else with a lifestyle disease.
      
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      October 25, 2021 6:40pm
- alloytoo
  
  Will the unvaxed receive a refund in respect the benefits they are not receiving from the state, but would otherwise be eligible for?
  
  I sense a legal minefield if the medical apartheid is pursued.
  
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  October 25, 2021 4:26pm
  - Okahu
    
    I read that question of yours three times thinking it might pertain to this benefit cut sub thread. I still don’t know quite what it is you are asking but in case you are asking about rebates for those unvacced who subsequently don’t require treatment…I would just ask, do you get a rebate from the insurance company for your house not burning down?
    
    My idea however, has no legs. It would never pass the Maori caucus, the Greens would not support it. At which point the idea would not reach the drafting stage lest the ACT and Nats jumped all over it.
    
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    October 25, 2021 8:27pm
Suze Wainwright

So Liz Gunn finally admits she’s a Green Party of Aotearoa/New Zealand supporter…
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October 25, 2021 8:01am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Maybe Liz secretly wants to be one of Bishop Tamaki’s handmaids…
  
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  October 25, 2021 8:14am
  - NK
    
    Did you watch the video, the whole thing?
    
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    October 25, 2021 9:03am
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      Like all the punters out there would read the entire story of a negative headlined article about Judith Collins, you mean…?
      
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      October 25, 2021 9:16am
    - lifesgood
      
      I did and got thoroughly bored. I wouldn’t waste a vote on her, it would just divide the opposition further. I get she is against the Labour govt but……
      
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      October 25, 2021 9:21am
- KevO'Brien
  
  She’s a bloomin’ astrologer. Demonic.
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:16am
  - NK
    
    I’ll ask you the same question: Did you watch the entire video?
    
    Because in it she declares she cannot be vaccinated because an underlying health condition will kill her if she is. And so she makes the point that demonising people like her for not being vaccinated is divisive and wrong.
    
    A good point, I would have thought. Did the Herald cover that? Nope. Do you have a comment on that?
    
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    October 25, 2021 9:20am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Astrology is demonic irrespective of “vaccinations”.
      
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      October 25, 2021 1:32pm
- Mike H S
  
  I was sent the video by a friend who has refused to get the vaccine. (I support his decision although I disagree with it.) It didn’t mention anything about the earthquake as reported in today’s media reports. Perhaps there are two versions.
  
  While I initially supported her move to protest, I started to lose interest as the rave went on. MMmmm. I did some research into her background and found that she had been on morning TV as a co host with Mike Hosking when she presumably had a hissy fit and walked off the set and resigned. Another Mmmmm.
  
  I don’t think I’ll be supporting her.
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:27am
  - NK
    
    Are you shooting the messenger rather than focusing on the message? What about her point that people like her are being treated as the devil incarnate because she won’t be vaccinated, because it will kill her. Do you have a comment on that?
    
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    October 25, 2021 10:16am
krazykiwi

Labour day 1890: Celebration of Samuel Parnell’s hard fought right to end exploitation of workers.

Labour day 2021: Government forces business closures and uses sweeping powers to keep people in their homes and away from their work.
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October 25, 2021 8:02am
- kowtow
  
  Not to mention losing your right to work over the regime mandating forced vaccination.
  
  Where’s the proud trade union movement over that , comrade .
  
  Strange times.
  
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  October 25, 2021 8:27am
- Ruahine
  
  Miserable weekend in Auckland. Fittingly it is called Labour Weekend.
  
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  October 25, 2021 8:41am
  - David Garrett
    
    Ruahine: Very good Sir/Madam…
    
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    October 25, 2021 9:04am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    After suggesting National wanted to give you Covid for Christmas, Labour is keeping a couple of million New Zealanders in lockdown for Labour Day.
    
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    October 25, 2021 10:21am
mikenmildagain

And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs’d they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin’s day
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October 25, 2021 8:04am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Seems not everyone appreciates Shakespeare, Agincourt, or Saints Crispin and Crispinian. The latter, admittedly, were just a load of cobblers.
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:10am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Well spotted Mikey, that Diocletian was a bit of a lad wasn’t he !
    
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    October 25, 2021 10:58am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      His palace in Croatia is supposed to be a grand visit.
      
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      October 25, 2021 1:43pm
- Don Beckett
  
  Well done MM
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:15am
- RW Capitalist
  
  She is no Henry V and this is no Battle of Agincourt .
  I’d be willing to bet that Henry had a prior plan….that he followed.
  Arden had a plan supplied to her “Influenza Pandemic Response Plan, 2017”..
  Which she did NOT follow….hence the mess we are in today.
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:49am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep,
    It looks more like the start of the “Charge of the ~~Vax~~ Light Brigade”
    
    (Battle of Balaclava, 25 October 1854)
    
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    October 25, 2021 12:27pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      A famous piece of miscommunication on a battlefield in yet another war the British didn’t have to fight – ganging up with the French to defend the Sultan.
      Most amusingly, Lord Raglan kept referring to the enemy as ‘the French’ instead of ‘the Russians’, as if nothing had changed in the forty years since his Peninsular War days.
      
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      October 25, 2021 1:49pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Into the valley of death walked the team of 5 million . . . . .
      
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      October 25, 2021 4:31pm
  - Nickc2
    
    She has an aversion to things done and approved by adults FFS.
    
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    October 25, 2021 4:29pm
Souvlaki

An article by Sir Professor David Skegg in todays Herald( paywalled ) says that by the time this covid outbreak was detected, there were already a thousand cases. This is the first time I have heard this number.
To me , and others like me, this time line would fit with Arderns apology to Polynesians for the dawn raids on 11/8/21, when the Princess ( whose Dad was involved himself) arose like a phoenix from beneath the tapa cloth, absolving her from sins before she was conceived ! It is possible a guard from the Hotel, vaccinated and asymptomatic went to the “Great Apology”, infected others/members of the AOG congregation, almost certainly at same event.
At the risk of being labelled a conspiracy theorist…is this the REAL reason we ‘have never tracked the source’. Skeggs reported figures are indeed interesting ! Ironic if this stage managed political festival were the immediate antecedent of our current strife !
“The virus had a head-start because vaccination coverage was low, about 1000 people had already caught it by the time it was detected, and the outbreak had a springboard in the super-spreading church event in South Auckland.”
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October 25, 2021 8:05am
- PhilBest
  
  When are our official “experts” going to get it that superspreading environments and behavior is virtually the only thing logically and cost-effectively worth focusing on?
  
  We are drowning in statistics and starved of the real-life analysis of evidence that shows how and when Covid actually turns deadly or puts people in ICU.
  
  We know how and why our two Covid dead are dead. We can learn from those cases, how to not have people die of Covid, or at least not at rates that matter, given that thousands of people of a certain age and number of morbidities do die every year.
  
  If we never even know about this 1000 early unknown cases, what is the loss? Or about thousands of cases at any one time, of people who get a few sniffles and don’t even infect their families in their spacious suburban home, or their workmates in the well ventilated work environment? What we are doing with Covid is a colossally expensive fascinating medical experiment, tracking for the first time ever, a phenomenon that has been hypothesized about ALL viruses but never proven. That is, they do ultimately get into everyone in trace amounts without causing any detectable illness. This is what Kary Mullis, the inventor of the PCR test, said the test would be capable of proving.
  
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  October 25, 2021 8:17am
  - Taieri
    
    We can learn from those cases, how to not have people die of Covid, or at least not at rates that matter, given that thousands of people of a certain age and number of morbidities do die every year.
    ——————-
    
    Perhaps we’re resistant to learning. Or at least our officially anointed “experts” with their fixation on “elimination” are? Not that long ago, much panic was generated in the media about the Covid situation in India. Multitudes were going to die in that country. And did they?
    
    https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/lucknow/uttar-pradesh-government-says-ivermectin-helped-to-keep-deaths-low-7311786/
    
    Of course it’s possible that this is just another officially sanctioned “success story”, but what if it isn’t?
    
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    October 25, 2021 9:07am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      It isn’t, the same story can be found in multiple sources. There are a couple of weak attempts at “debunking” but they are truly feeble.
      More to the point, the drug, like HCQ is basically harmless. So why ban it? Like they banned antibody test importation? Unless there is a clause in the contract to prevent you doing anything that might detract from the sale of your useless products.
      
      India vanished from the media because like the people dropping dead in the streets in China story, it was very quickly shown to be completely nonsensical in the context of things. It was a useful tool to maintain the terror for a week. Then on to the next distraction.
      We’ve been had. Now you start asking WHY???
      
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      October 25, 2021 12:14pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Consider that the “vaccinated” are themselves now super spreaders.
    
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    October 25, 2021 9:19am
    - All_on_Red
      
      If you are vaccinated then you are not a ‘super’ spreader.
      If anything the vaccine diminishes the severity of any load you might share.
      That’s one of the main benefits of getting vaccinated- especially for our young adults.
      
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      October 25, 2021 9:39am
      - PhilBest
        
        The jury is out on that, to say the least.
        
        The problem with “proving” it one way or another is that the whole picture is being investigated with no benchmark ABOUT initial viral load and why it is as high as it is.
        
        To truly test it, you would need trial groups of patients of similar age and health, who were knowingly exposed to a significant aerosol concentration in the same environment for the same length of time, some vaxxed and some not.
        
        The problem with all studies that say “we found vaxxed shedding more virus than unvaxxed” or “we found unvaxxed shedding more virus than vaxxed”, is that there is no “control” in any of them for the original infection – “viral load IN” at the time of infection will very much make a difference for “viral load OUT”.
        
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        October 25, 2021 9:56am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Agree with Phil, I have seen studies that reported Vaxxed individuals had a higher viral load than unVaxxed, and reports showing no significant difference.
        
        About the only effect of vaccination that is considered significant is that the jabs protect against more serious symptoms and illness. Though to be fair the data isn’t good enough to conclude that vaccination also protects against catching the virus in the first place. The existence of a possibly significant number of naturally immune people amongst the unvaccinated population makes the numbers hard to interpret. In the UK a greater proportion of the nominally Vaxxed catch Covid than the unvaccinated, but the number of naturally immune amongst the unvaccinated is not known, but suspected to be relatively high.
        
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        October 25, 2021 11:03am
  - dcrane
    
    Vitamin D is nowhere to be found on the Official Covid-19 website wellbeing pages.
    
    Such a simple, inexpensive measure, so unquestionably relevant to immunity, and so relevant to a population coming out of winter. How can it be that 20 months into this nobody even speaks of it?
    
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    October 25, 2021 9:22am
    - dcrane
      
      Downticker must be the covid-19 webmaster.
      
      13 4
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      October 25, 2021 10:32am
    - Paul Marsden
      
      Try and keep up. You are not following the money trail
      
      8 3
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      October 25, 2021 10:42am
    - Ed Snack
      
      As well as anti-oxidants (Vitamin C being one), and simple anti-clotting agents (low dose aspirin would work for most). And hell, why not throw in a known anti-viral agent like Ivermectin; and even a low dose general antibiotic for those with minor symptoms to protect against opportunistic lung infections that can cause pneumonia. Add zinc supplement to round it off.
      
      Sounds just like what appears to have been highly successful in Uttar Pradesh, and is known as the MATH+ protocol.
      
      Medical authorities in NZ and indeed in most western countries are just too hidebound and unimaginative that they can’t allow themselves to resort to common sense. The other explanation is political direction and the urge to not let a crisis go to waste.
      
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      October 25, 2021 11:08am
      - marcw
        
        Your addition of ‘a low dose general antibiotic’ just a stupid idea. It goes against all the principles of effective and safe use of antibiotics. You are not a qualified doctor, so you should refrain from offering medical treatment advice without a bold disclaimer and that it is unqualified opinion.
        
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        October 25, 2021 11:21am
      - burt
        
        marcw
        
        How long do you think it will take for the narrative on low dose antibiotics to be changed. Till we’re told it’s a good thing and we’re told people not taking antibiotics are the ones responsible for antibiotics resistant super bugs to support the prevailing idea that it’s not people using leaky vaccines driving variants but rather the unvaccinated?
        
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        October 25, 2021 12:01pm
      - dcrane
        
        Fwiw, The low dose antibiotic idea is no worse than forcing vaccination right down through the youngest cohorts of teenagers and children, who suffer little covid risk.
        
        A preventative antibiotic might be called for once a vulnerable person has a confirmed covid-19 infection.
        
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        October 25, 2021 1:56pm
    - Aurelia
      
      Nobody gonna make another trillion dollars from vit D.
      
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      October 25, 2021 12:53pm
  - tf78
    
    Drop the PCR cycle to 28 about where it should be and I bet we’d be lucky to have 10 cases/day.
    
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    October 25, 2021 9:38am
    - cmm
      
      Even better: don’t use PCR testing at all. Just do symptomatic testing as has been used in every other pandemic in history – as well as seasonal flu.
      
      If we used the PCR test for seasonal flu there would be well over a million cases in NZ each year and there would be over 10,000 deaths (according to Baker’s numbers).
      
      ie. almost a third of deaths in NZ would be counted as flu deaths if done on an apples-to-apples basis.
      
      The most fundamental principle in science is to measure things the same way when comparing them.
      
      What we are seeing is activism and politics. It is not science.
      
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      October 25, 2021 10:21am
  - pjay
    
    Exactly – thanks…
    
    Ivor Cummins again puts it very succinctly – as he says, it’s just the data as reported by the various governments themselves …. no need to resort to muddlers or soothsayers ,,,,
    
    https://youtu.be/3odjlEn8qXY
    
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    October 25, 2021 9:45am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    The key word there is “experiment”. It was always an experiment. In an interview with David Le Gros, Director of the Malaghan Institute for Health Research and Programme Director for the Vaccine Alliance of Aotearoa New Zealand he was asked:
    
    ……while these vaccines have gone through huge 60,000 person trials over a number of months last year, how do we know that the vaccines won’t produce side effects that crop up in years from now? “We don’t know that,” Graham says. “We don’t know that.”
    
    I distinctly remember being told that the vaccines were “safe and approved”, That’s not what he is saying is it.
    Of course there is also the Risk Management Plan from Pfizer which was supplied to Medsafe.
    Only 6 pages, well worth a read. Especially the admission about “missing information” and risk of VAEDS.
    
    https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/Comirnaty-RMP.pdf
    
    We were lied to. This was always an experiment. Wow. Just wow.
    
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    October 25, 2021 11:51am
    - burt
      
      Well I guess the only strategy now is to completely remove the control group so we’ve got no idea how those unknown risks have played out. That is well underway now, there will be very few who’ve not been jabbed very soon.
      
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      October 25, 2021 12:15pm
- Andrei
  
  …that by the time this covid outbreak was detected, there were already a thousand cases
  
  Of course if this is true it makes a lie out of the narrative this disease is a major threat to the general population – if people don’t notice they are sick and can function as per normal then are they really sick?
  
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  October 25, 2021 8:21am
- Ruahine
  
  ‘have never tracked the source’ I have been told the original source was the infected UN worker brought in from Fiji and taken to Middlemore Hospital which is where a large number of South Auckland people work.
  
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  October 25, 2021 8:28am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    But of course, case zero is irrelevant in the context of a virus. Unless we locked the doors and threw away the key we were never keeping it out and that was never going to happen, nor should it.
    As Simon Thornley and the others at Covid Plan B tried to say (but were shut down by the PM’s personal mainstream media) – protect the vulnerable, self isolate if you show symptoms, otherwise get on with living.
    
    As to the ultimate source, it now seems like Fauci’s NIH is admitting funding the “gain of function research” in Wuhan. Remember a year ago when all the foil hat nutters suggested this?
    
    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/10/nih-admits-funding-risky-virus-research-in-wuhan
    
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    October 25, 2021 12:34pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Some risk. You have described a conspiracy theory so, yes, that makes you a conspiracy theorist.
  
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  October 25, 2021 8:29am
  - Ruahine
    
    MMa.
    ‘conspiracy theory’ you say.
    Prove it wrong.
    
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    October 25, 2021 9:18am
  - dcrane
    
    Every Homo sapiens is a conspiracy theorist.
    
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    October 25, 2021 9:24am
- kowtow
  
  All super spreader events are equal , but some super spreader events are more equal than others.
  
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  October 25, 2021 8:30am
- Charmaine Hawke
  
  I do remember Ardern saying she had been kept awake at night wondering the source of the outbreak, is it possible her conscience was keeping her up at night?
  
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  October 25, 2021 8:36am
  - NK
    
    …
    
    is it possible her conscience was keeping her up at night?
    
    No, that’s impossible.
    
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    October 25, 2021 9:17am
    - curry4me
      
      NK: Utterly, totally, completely, unequivocally, and every other way impossible. She doesn’t have one.
      
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      October 25, 2021 12:33pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Communists don’t have consciences. Stalin was a prime example.
    
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    October 25, 2021 9:21am
  - RalphT
    
    No; she doesn’t have one.
    
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    October 25, 2021 9:36am
- Surely Knott
  
  NZ closed due to “one” case on the 17 Aug. and supposedly Devonport man was the first person.
  But the locations of interest that were then posted dated back to 1 August to locations in Blockhouse bay particularly a daycare there. They then retracted those early locations and said it was nothing just precautionary.
  The get your vaccination eligibility letters were only received by healthy 50 year olds a few days before shutdown on the 17 Aug.
  https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/08/21/locations-of-interest-prior-to-august-7-removed/
  
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  October 25, 2021 8:39am
  - lifesgood
    
    Funny thing about that Devonport man. Apparently he spent a whole weekend, while infectious, going all over Thames, into bars, restaurants, shops, pubs, and tourist attractions and NOT ONE person became infected.
    
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    October 25, 2021 9:24am
    - Nickc2
      
      I’m surprised you’re allowed to mention that. However, the Frazer House trolls won’t ignore your post. You’ll be canceled.
      
      25 1
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      October 25, 2021 10:06am
    - amospicton
      
      Yes and those two women spent days in Northland spreading goodwill which I would imagine to be an efficient means of transmission and nothing. Not one case. It’d be nice to be treated like adults and told what was really going on. Just tragic that Winston put Jaspinda in charge rather than Bill English.
      
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      October 25, 2021 12:40pm
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      Or, alternatively, the guy did infect many people, yet they never knew they had the “deadly Covid.” This seems much more plausible.
      
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      October 25, 2021 1:35pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  All possible.
  
  But none of it supported by any actual evidence.
  
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  October 25, 2021 8:47am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    If you reflect back over the last 18 months, we have never had any “actual evidence” of the source of the various outbreaks.
    
    We have had stories about freezers, rubbish-bin lids and lift buttons…all accompanied with frenzied deep cleaning…and zilch information about aerosol spread in confined environments…
    
    then this year we get a tales of throughfares and frontages of MIQ facilities where folks could be infected…
    
    and only months later we learn that there had been many escapes from MIQ facilities of Covid positive folks.
    
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    October 25, 2021 9:15am
    - NK
      
      Yip, 100%. Americold was frozen meat packaging or something, then never confirmed. Delta has never been tracked, nor confirmed. The “experts” seem to be able to track everything else, except where the outbreaks originated. And of course that’s because the truth would really hurt the PM and the government so it’s buried, much like the evidence into the Christchurch terror attack, which is embargoed for 30 years.
      
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      October 25, 2021 9:23am
      - alloytoo
        
        The Americold theory was debunked by the company. Nothing had been transferred between the two warehouses during the period under review.
        
        The government persisted with this theory even after the company had refuted it.
        
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        October 25, 2021 9:32am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      True indeed. And this latest speculation is no better founded than any of the other cases you mention.
      
      12 1
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      October 25, 2021 10:08am
    - Tom Hunter
      
      I’ve always wanted to know how the first person to die in New Zealand from Covid-19 (Alpha) caught it, because she was elderly, in a rest home on the West Coast, one of the more isolated parts of NZ?
      
      She must have caught it from somebody and they likely didn’t even know they had it. Moreover, they likely went on to develop natural immunity. It wouldn’t surprise me if we found they got vaxxed, not knowing they’d already caught and survived the disease. Anti-body testing would have been nice to have. Still would be.
      
      Along the same lines I’ve seen no follow-up to the story of the Waikato blood donations in early 2020 showing twice as many cases of Covid-19 antibodies as expected – which would suggest the virus was out and about quite early on in the NZ population, which would be entirely unsurprising given the nature of this virus.
      
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      October 25, 2021 1:20pm
- Spoff
  
  Wikipedia:
  Between 21 and 24 January 2020, at the early stages of the COVID-19 outbreak, CEPI met with leaders from Moderna to establish plans for a COVID-19 vaccine at the Davos gathering,[74] with a total global case number of 274 and total loss of life (from) the virus at 16.[75]
  
  The WHO declared a global health emergency 6 days later.[76]
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:47am
Kiwi_in_Paris

Great speeches at EU Parliament. Could you imagine controlled opposition Collins or Bridges making a speech like this, lol? Maybe we would need to go back to Lange or Big Norm.

The glaring irony is, of course, that in the UK the people who are unvaccinated are more likely to be ones who voted for Brexit, and therefore will lose these human rights protections (and no doubt have to live under vaccine certificates, like Kiwis will under the Adern and National conglomerate, both the UK and NZ being small island countries sealed off from the rest of the world, and run by a two party dictatorship with little or no political opposition, rapidly losing their civil rights, freedom of movement, freedom of speech, freedom of medical choice, bodily autonomy, both economies destined to crash spectacularly with massive inflation).

Yeah, no wonder the UK and NZ are forging closer ties, birds of a feather, flock together, and all that.

https://odysee.com/@Fingerbob:c/BREAKING-EU-PARLEMENT-OPPOSES-VACCINE-MANDATE-AGENDA:4
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October 25, 2021 8:06am
- MCos
  
  I watched the start of that press conference and wondered who those people were. The first guy to speak is Cristian Terheș, a Romanian Member of the European Parliament from the Christian Democratic National Peasants’ Party.
  I somehow doubt that group speaks speaks for the European Parliament as the odysee article states.
  https://www.dw.com/en/echr-rejects-anti-lockdown-case-from-romanian-mep/a-57600458
  BTW
  The Odysee home page states
  Welcome to a world of weird videos
  
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  October 25, 2021 12:10pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  “…in the UK the people who are unvaccinated are more likely to be ones who voted for Brexit”
  
  On what basis do you make that unsubstantiated claim?
  
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  October 25, 2021 12:52pm
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    Because, as they voted for Brexit, they are likely the most intelligent, which also means that they likely oppose the vaccines.
    
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    October 25, 2021 1:38pm
Yvette

• Complaints about the Government’s Three Waters Reform TV adverts have described them as misinformation, untrue and a taxpayer-funded propaganda campaign.

• Jacinda Kate Laurell Ardern attended the University of Waikato, graduating in 2001 with a Bachelor of Communication Studies (BCS) in politics and public relations. She spent a semester abroad at Arizona State University in 2001. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacinda_Ardern

Who better qualified to recognise Three Waters Reform TV adverts are misinformation, untrue and a taxpayer-funded propaganda campaign?
But she is running this nation’s response to covid, with the lives of many in her hands.
That’d be rude as, eh?
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October 25, 2021 8:06am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Those advts were a disgrace. They were buttering up the people in a secret Maori coup.
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:23am
  - tf78
    
    Kev, the Water care trucks are already sign written “Three Waters” – nothing like jumping the gun eh!
    
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    October 25, 2021 9:42am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Who has paid for this subversion? I cannot see any right of taxpayers to do that.
      
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      October 25, 2021 1:34pm
- Clyde
  
  Of course the TV adverts were misleading, untrue and propaganda. They weren’t designed to inform, they were designed to bring emotion into a very simple issue. The narrative is “you are not receiving good clean drinking water”, and the most important narrative is “but we are going to solve the issue”. The fact is that most NZ Councils are delivering good clean drinking water, but the maori caucus are absolutely determined to bring control of NZ’s water under maori control and ownership. While most NZ Councils have seen through this charade and propaganda campaign there are a few that haven’t. Next on the list of the maori caucus is 50/50 maori/non-maori on all Councils – Local Government NZ are already on-board with this agenda. He Puapua is on its way under the maori caucus and their little commie puppet.
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:30am
Andrei

Are New Zealanders, sorry Aotearoans, going to meekly allow the Government the power to dictate what you can do and who you can associate with based upon a “vaccine passport™ which records whether or not you have complied with whatever conditions they come up with in the future?

Sadly I would say they probably will on the highly erroneous belief that “it keeps us safe™”

Just the converse in fact it will turn us into serfs
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October 25, 2021 8:09am
- Surely Knott
  
  Options don’t download it. Avoid shops that demand it. Or do download it, and when you scan in have loud wet coughing sneezing fits while yelling it’s ok I’m vaccinated.
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:25am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Will the “passport” extend to the WEF model where NZ is prisoner to other’s social mores?
  
  What’s citizenship?
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:43am
  - PhilBest
    
    Worse, it is quite likely a “WEF / CCP” devil’s alliance model.
    
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    October 25, 2021 9:58am
- artemisia
  
  Hard to see these vaccine certificates will be needed forever. At some point, maybe next year, cases will drop and the casedemic will be quietly moved aside.
  
  In Wellington at level 1 this year masks were mandatory on public transport. As the days went on fewer and fewer bothered. Nobody died. It will happen again.
  
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  October 25, 2021 11:54am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    Wrong and naive. Certificates will evolve into digital IDs. If they are ever implemented, there is no way on earth that they are ever being rolled-back. Their application will be expanded to other things deemed “undesirable” (e.g. internet searches, voting history, membership of subversive groups, political views). They must be stopped now or it’s game over. The precept “act in haste, repent at leisure” seems appropriate.
    
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    October 25, 2021 1:43pm
Yvette

“… misinformation, untrue and a taxpayer-funded propaganda campaign”?

COVID-19: Wrap of Sunday’s developments as cases drop for second straight day
New COVID-19 case numbers may have dropped for the second straight day, but the Government has been called out for COVID-poverty inaction, not using rapid antigen testing for travellers and not revealing cancer treatment disruption data.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/10/covid-19-wrap-of-sunday-s-developments-as-cases-drop-for-second-straight-day.html

Three days ago, Friday, 120 cases in Auckland, from 13,763 tests in Auckland suggested infection per thousand tests were 8.719 cases, Saturday was 6.006, and yesterday 7.496.
So Saturday was down from Friday, but yesterday seems in fact to be back up between the two.
It appears that, while media quote “cases drop for second straight day”, they haven’t.

If the above figures are wrong I would be pleased to see someone correct and explain them.
Even considering – When asked if [Dr Ayesha Verrall] was sure about [her “gold standard” benchmark of turning around COVID-19 test results], she said that’s what she’d been advised. But it seems Dr Verrall was advised wrong. This outbreak, the number of tests returned within 24 hours is 78 percent. Over the past week it dropped to 73 percent, meaning of the 152,763 tests taken last week, 41,246 came back late (14/10/2021) – but that short-fall is surely roughly consistent in the test numbers given.

Not directly related, but now try and figure out how the traffic light systems works – as Collins apparently says: “Dismaying, confusing, complicated … The roadmap was a bit of a road to nowhere, now we’ve got the traffic lights on [ it ]”
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October 25, 2021 8:09am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  We have been told before that less processing of swabs is done during weekends… so I always expect lowish numbers to be reported early in the week…
  
  I suspect there won’t have been a full contingent of swab processers at work this Labour weekend….
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:40am
  - Yvette
    
    Maggy, “less processing of swabs is done during weekends” is of course true – Sunday and Monday reported test numbers are always less, being a Saturday drop-down (reported Sunday) and even more Sunday (reported Monday)
    Which is why considering cases per thousand tests should involve a constant comparable factor.
    
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    October 25, 2021 9:53am
Warren

This could only happen under a Labour Government and the sheeple still adore the Leader of incompetence Jacinda Ardern.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-orewa-man-in-isolation-after-coming-to-aid-of-distressed-covid-positive-woman/DZ55OMS7FT4YFM6KUJQOAI5MCY/
It is bad enough that they escaped from their isolation facility but how stupid is our rules when they send them back to their homes to continue isolation where they escaped from in the first place.
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October 25, 2021 8:19am
- PhilBest
  
  I will stick my neck out and venture that “self-isolating” infected people should be allowed to go almost anywhere “EXCEPT” the known high-risk spreading environments.
  
  Saying they must STAY HOME or worse, in a single room, has no basis in science.
  
  They SHOULD be getting told to spend as much time as possible in the fresh air and sunshine for the sake of their own health, just no sneezing directly into other people’s mouths and definitely no “tongeuing”.
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:00am
- ClanMcleod
  
  I think the love might be waning as quickly as the effectiveness of the jab if her Facebook page is anything to go by.
  
  https://www.facebook.com/NZLabourParty/posts/10158646271376452?comment_id=10158648120471452&notif_id=1635112488530114&notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic&ref=notif
  
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  October 25, 2021 12:41pm
Paulus

Some while ago I heard from a good source in Wellington that our Princess was going overseas in November, and that the RNZAF B757 was in readiness.
Now I am hearing that she probably will be going to Glasgow – for her honeymoon, after her show at the APEC on line meeting.
Can anybody confirm this – or how is our Jimmie and 16 others going this way too.
Presumable Tova and Jessie will be along – all non quarantined of course on return.
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October 25, 2021 8:23am
- Blackbob
  
  Why do you think they’re talking about trialing home isolation instead of MIQ for returnees soon?
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:19am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Isn’t a WEF briefing meeting scheduled?
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:45am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  If she was going, I would have expected some spin by now on why it is imperative that our Dear PM be in Glasgow.
  
  But according to Henry Cooke…she’s not going.
  
  https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/jacinda-ardern-s-climate-summit-problem-is-the-opposite-of-scott-morrison-s-20211020-p591p4.html
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:45am
I remember when

The BBC economic analysis leaves out an important detail – the $55 billion/year annual coal export industry keeps the Australian dollar afloat.
Australian law requires companies to export at realistic prices, even if they are cross selling between divisions of the same company, so all the coal has to be purchased using Australian dollars.
Without that $55 billion annual influx of foreign currency, the value of the Australian dollar would likely collapse.

Something about which the Greens and anti-farming brigade are blissfully ignorant.
Like much of the covid action, the cost and consequences of ‘climate change’ have not yet started to bite.
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October 25, 2021 8:23am
I remember when

Is it time to rise up and stop this terrible discrimination.
How long are we going to let it continue.
By the time Cindy Koro’s term as Governor-General comes to an end in 2026 it will be 25 years since a male New Zealander, of European descent, last held the position.
Of the last eight Governor-Generals, four, including one Maori, have been female, two Maori males and one of Indo-Fijian descent.
Will the next Governor-General be a stale, grey, white male, of European descent, or will diversity dictate the need for an openly gay male or female.
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October 25, 2021 8:34am
- pdm
  
  May I recommend Sir Ray Avery – or maybe like Sir Wilson Whineray he will turn down the job.
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:22am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Bob Jones would be entertaining but I doubt he would want it. Otherwise Don Brash would trigger a fair portion of the population.
    
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    October 25, 2021 12:06pm
    - alloytoo
      
      That might well be a good thing.
      
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      October 25, 2021 4:40pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The Queen’s rep. in NZ has become a toothless tiger.
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:48am
- oldfella
  
  IRW, I wonder if Laurel would be interested in the job? Gav would tick several boxes at once.
  
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  October 25, 2021 11:30am
Yvette

Newsroom has a carefully considered article –
… It’s always been lose-lose for Māori Ministers with a seat in Government, because calling for a target would lead to Māori being blamed for holding the rest of the country ransom, but not calling for it will ultimately lead to a horrible fate for many of their people.
They chose to fight for their people but the consensus from Cabinet was to back the majority of New Zealanders who have done their bit and been vaccinated.
_______________________________

In years to come when a full inquiry is done into the Government’s Covid response, the executive summary will observe the obvious – the drive to get Māori vaccinated was too little too late.
_______________________________

It doesn’t take into account the incredibly institutionalised realities for why the Māori vaccination rate is what it is.
But when you’ve got businesses rightly pleading with the Finance Minister, Aucklanders battling with the social and mental costs associated with 10 weeks in lockdown and the whole South Island demanding common sense, the long list of reasons why Māori should – for once – not be left behind become secondary in what is ultimately a political decision.

Everything including the kitchen sink is now being thrown at Māori vaccination – $120 million was announced on Friday, half of which will be available next week for community iwi and Māori health providers to get into the most difficult-to-reach communities.

… The traffic light system has provided some clarity for businesses but is completely hamstrung by the willingness of the vaccine hesitant to be part of the team of five million.

– but what this article doesn’t mention, is that – without imbuing it with any anthropomorphous values, but the element every organism in the universe seems to have: the drive to have sex, that is: to multiply – the covid virus may suddenly reach 90 percent audience penetration before any vaccination effort does.
Rendering every consideration, other than getting vaccinated, as fucking useless – like, utterly meaningless
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October 25, 2021 8:41am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Maori are mostly no longer under tribal control. They can and will do as they please.
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:51am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Based on all emerging data that last sentence should read:
  “Rendering every consideration, INCLUDING getting vaccinated, as fucking useless – like, utterly meaningless”
  
  It’s failing rapidly. I don’t like that news but that’s what the real world data is clearly showing.
  
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  October 25, 2021 12:44pm
- rouppe
  
  Maori were prioritised in group 3.
  
  To say they have been left out is a lie. At worst they have had the same opportunity as everyone else. Something the Treaty promised.
  
  You only have to look at the ovid rates for my town: Porirua.
  
  The low rates are Waitangirua, Cannons Creek, Ascot Park, Elsdon, Takapuwahia.
  
  The high rates are Papakowhai, Aotea and Paremata.
  
  Not difficult to work out the difference.
  
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  October 25, 2021 1:14pm
Stu2

I suggested yesterday that I expect a lot more cases in Middlemore. I was questioned but my reply was so late in the day it was wasted.

This is why.

The data covering hospitalisations covers the whole outbreak, current hospitalisations are not released in detail. Still there are several dominant trends in hospitalisations:
– close to half are Maori
– the majority are under 40 (all ethnicities)
– they are overwhelmingly unvaccinated

The first two factors coincide with lower vaccination levels (young Maori and to a lesser extent young Pacifika vaccination rates are low).

Cases are expected to double every 10-12 days, so there will be a lot more cases coming out of the lesser vaxxed in south auckland. That suggests growing hospital loads.

Some of the feedback I got detailed the high vax rates for elderly Maori. They are not who is in hospital.
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October 25, 2021 8:44am
- Fishing in the dark
  
  I am against comparing to countries like Singapore, Taiwan etc.
  They are completely different, different culture, different diets, different climates etc.
  Now the latest research in the States showing that OB people have a lesser change to survive Covid.
  This is like in NZ which we have also certain groups in our society which are in general OB’s and I would think these people makes the bulk which are in the hospitals either with Covid, using dialyzer machines, heavy diabetes etc.
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:20am
Frank the tank

Isn’t it funny how the scare porn mob ala Hendy, Plank and the pink lady are suddenly absent from the media now that the situation has changed.

It’s abundantly clear now the narrative of covid is being controlled in regards what they want heard.
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October 25, 2021 8:45am
- Spoff
  
  The headless chickens are squabbling:
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126773403/covid19-traffic-light-system-needs-te-tiriti-foundation-to-succeed-experts-warn
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:25am
  - curry4me
    
    Spoff: This might be what de-rails Stalinda’s Wuhan virus train.
    
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    October 25, 2021 12:48pm
    - Spoff
      
      Has to happen sooner or later to a narrative that is riddled with contradiction and inanity.
      
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      October 25, 2021 2:57pm
Tomtoddy

Got to phone chat with my 20 yr old grandson last night.
Me: “Are you and your mates into politics?”
Gs: “Nah, stuff all. Pop”.
Me: “When you are who do most prefer – Labour National, ACT or Greens?”
Gs: “Aint like that. You either go for Ardern or maybe Seymour”.
Me: “So, Ardern is clear favourite?”
Gs: “Was. Used to like her but most are giving up on her. She is all lick and no p……”
Me: “Collins?”
Gs: “Too old”.
Me: “so, who now?”
Gs: “Seymour or no one”.
Me: “What do you go on? Policies or what?”
Gs: “Nah, just the way they are, the way they look and what they say”.

Maybe young people are the same as they always were – not turned on my politics. But still smart enough to see Ardern is on the down.
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October 25, 2021 8:46am
- BAM
  
  You could actually see David Seymour as PM in 2023.
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:30am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    I have a lazy fiver that says you are wrong . . .
    
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    October 25, 2021 10:07am
- DeepBlue
  
  Nicola Willis had a fresh, gorgeous, hair styling for her speech on the new housing rules.
  
  Based on your Grandson conversation she might be the one to attract youth voters. Certainly her housing policy is targeted at them: ‘a property owning democracy’ she said.
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:58am
  - BAM
    
    No, there’s total disillusionment with both Labour and National, they had their chance and did nothing.
    No one is interested in voting for nothing again.
    
    If the right was to win, the vote split will by something like
    30% ACT
    20% National.
    
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    October 25, 2021 10:08am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Two terms of an ACT government would transform New Zealand. Unfortunately the harsh remedial medicine of the first term would make a second term difficult.
  
  I am now totally convinced that with their current MPs National we would be less wasteful than the current government. But they will not fix the underlying problems.
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:59am
pdm

TT – we can but hope your grandson is on the money.
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October 25, 2021 8:49am
Nickc2

The 3 Waters Saga
It looks like the Govt has bought off the Broadcasting Standards Authority (BSA).
After considering complaints about 3 Waters TV advertisements, the BSA ruled in the context of advocacy advertising, it was not misleading or offensive.
A description of what the BSA considered can be read here.
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/government-pulled-up-for-irresponsible-misleading-three-waters-advertising-campaign/ar-AAPU0OH?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
IMO, this stinks of Govt interference.
Will Mahuta legislate or will public opinion force a backdown?
Remember, this includes water being gifted to Maori interests or used as collateral to raise a $160Bn Govt loan.
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October 25, 2021 8:50am
- alloytoo
  
  If they’re advocacy then they may be considered a misuse of government funds for party political gain.
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:14am
ABS4EVA

ADHERN makes we want to VOMIT.
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October 25, 2021 8:51am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  She might, but ARDERN has the same effect on me.
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:58am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Be of Good cheer Abs4eva…
  
  As the Covid crisis deepens in NZ, our Dear PM will retreat to the ~~bunker~~ background.
  
  She doesn’t front bad news…
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:45am
cmm

All cops have had a chance to be vaccinated, but only 83% or so have.

So potentially almost 20% of cops won’t be allowed to do their job.

If a cop can’t first prove he’s vaccinated, then don’t roll down the window to talk to him or do the breathalyzer.

Resisting arrest? Naah, it was self defence. I was trying to get away from a potentially unvaccinated cop.

That’s going to be fun.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126765175/covid19-police-making-slow-progress-in-getting-vaccinated-email-shows
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October 25, 2021 8:57am
- pdm
  
  cmm – great imagination.
  
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  October 25, 2021 9:24am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I hope they lose the ones that operate those damn speed radar machines. My radar detector was going off non stop yesterday.
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:00am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    One of my best $1,000.00 spends . . . .
    
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    October 25, 2021 10:09am
- sooty
  
  The only way to get a 100% vaxed police force is to sack the unvaxed 20%!
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:20am
  - gravedodger
    
    Wondering if the Imposter Coster is anti Pfizer inoculant, here is hoping?
    
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    October 25, 2021 12:59pm
- JamesP
  
  Police rate is tracking with the public rate which is unsurprising given:
  – They weren’t given priority.
  – Police will skew younger and lacking in chronic illnesses compared to the average public. ie. they are likely group 4.
  The real scandal is:
  – They weren’t given priority due to their interactions with MIQ and at risk groups.
  – The Police don’t actually know how many are vaccinated (83% being a lower bound) because if officers got a vaccine from any other provider, the Police don’t know about it.
  
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  October 25, 2021 12:08pm
Opie

Good to see an anti 3 waters article on MSM today, going through all the complaints laid about the advertising.

What gets me is that crayon face has spent 3.5 million of our money to try and push this theft (“advertising”) and an unknown amount bribing councils to play along.

Has there ever been a more wasteful government?

Is there any way to stop this and all the other stuff these clowns are forcing on us? Or do I just ride out the next couple of years until you can travel again and head overseas, taking my 40k a year of tax payment with me?

It seems most countries have lost the plot regarding covid, but are any others carrying out some of the biggest changes to their country’s structure stealthily in the background?
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October 25, 2021 9:00am
- rouppe
  
  Or do I just ride out the next couple of years until you can travel again and head overseas, taking my 40k a year of tax payment with me?
  
  I’m setting myself up for just that. I’m 5 years away from the full whack but even if I leave for a non social security agreement country in say 2 years I would still get 42/45ths of the pension when I turn 65
  
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  October 25, 2021 1:32pm
Nickc2

The Auckland Council is about to further trash the joint before they are out on their collective arses.
Council is to meet with Maori in order to rename Akld’s North Shore Parks in line with that Mumo Jumbo language called Te Reo.
Who saw this coming? There has been no canvassing for this AFIK.
https://insidegovernment.co.nz/auckland-council-to-restore-maori-park-names/
Notice how this has come to light on a public holiday!
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October 25, 2021 9:10am
- graham
  
  From your link:
  
  The programme also supports Auckland Council’s vision to increase visibility of te reo Māori in our public places so that it is seen, heard, learnt, and spoken in everyday life.
  
  Unfortunately for those who would like to see Maori being spoken and used “in everyday life”, it simply isn’t happening and I suspect never will.
  
  Case in point – the Maori name for Auckland, Tamaki Makaurau, has been very heavily promoted in print media, on the television, on the radio, by Government, by councils, by news readers – you can’t escape it, and I doubt there is anybody who has lived in Auckland for more than two years who isn’t very familiar with the name by now. But how many people use it? I have never heard anybody use the name in casual conversation – “yeah, we’re hoping to get out of Tamaki Makaurau for the long weekend” or “gee, the traffic in Tamaki Makaurau is just getting worse and worse”. Never. It’s always “Auckland”.
  
  They can pretend that all these efforts are “revitalising the language” or “preserving the taonga” all they like, but among ordinary everyday Kiwis it simply isn’t true. I wonder how long it will be before they stop pretending?
  
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  October 25, 2021 11:23am
  - lifesgood
    
    It’s having absolutely the reverse effect. It’s getting people’s backs up and making them more determined than ever not to use Te Reo. If anyone says Kia ora or morena to me I always reply in English, English is my language. It is incredibly rude to speak to me in a foreign language in my own country.
    
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    October 25, 2021 12:54pm
    - mawm
      
      If a see a sign in Maori my eyes glaze over and I skip the words.
      
      The South African townships erupted in 1976 not because of separate development, not because the pass laws, not because of separate facilities but because they were forced to learn in Afrikaans.
      
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      October 25, 2021 6:59pm
  - LauraNorda
    
    Graham,
    
    Where is this Tamaki Makaurau you speak of:
    
    Silly me, for I am well into advanced years and I was always taught that AKARANA was the name for Auckland.
    
    Ākarana
    Play
    
    Maori Dictionary quotes:
    
    1. (loan) (location) Auckland.
    
    Ka kaumātua haere au, ka huri ngā mahi ahuwhenua a ngā tāngata ki te moana, ki te hī ika hei hoko ki ngā Pākehā mai i Ākarana, ki te ngahere ki te mahi hōkeke hei hoko ki ngā tāngata Hainamana (TAH 58:9). / As I grew older the people turned to harvesting the sea, fishing and selling their catch to Pākehā from Auckland, to the forests to collecting ear fungus to sell to the Chinese.
    
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    October 25, 2021 3:12pm
- Nickc2
  
  Take a look at the person advocating for this. She’s all glasses and theory IMO, direct from that indoctrination hub called University.
  
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  October 25, 2021 4:10pm
Truman lodge

No Jab No Job sounds like the vaccine works and is a lifesaver. Yet the unvaccinated are a danger to the vaccinated and can kill them.

It’s one thing to force vaccine mandates at work. But the Govt has now decided who has rights and who participates in society. Who gets a coffee and donut?
On what Authority does the govt have? Was there a debate and public submissions? If society supports this then call an election or binding referendum?
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October 25, 2021 9:12am
- Benedict Yu
  
  It could be tested in the courts. But I doubt that cafes etc will be acting unlawfully by refusing entry.
  
  Shoes how things changed last week.
  
  Only 2 weeks ago we had a vigorous debate on GD. I was arguing that any business should be permitted to refuse entry to the unvaccinated. Private property rights. But I was against mandates.
  
  A couple of commentators were suggesting that the government should make it unlawful to refuse entry to the unvaccinated.
  
  The majority who engaged with me said they would boycott establishments that refuse the unvaccinated.
  
  And yet here we are a week later. We will have effective vaccine mandates in all hospitality venues. The alternative is strict numbers limits and socialist distancing. Most places that do that will be non viable.
  
  So all the unvaccinated will be excluded from the pub, eating out and generally socializing. To me, that sounds like a dangerous social experiment.
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:11am
  - Taieri
    
    So all the unvaccinated will be excluded from the pub, eating out and generally socializing. To me, that sounds like a dangerous social experiment
    —————–
    
    This is just another hypocrisy from the Government. After all talk about vaccinations not going to be compulsory they effectively make it so by passing the buck to the private sector.
    
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    October 25, 2021 10:26am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    To me, it sounds like a bloody good idea.
    
    3 17
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    October 25, 2021 10:57am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    It is a horrendous use of applied psychology by the leader of a country to further her own political ambitions on the world stage. That’s all this is, it has nothing to do with health.
    
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    October 25, 2021 12:51pm
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    They will need to remove some grounds of illegal discrimination from the Human Rights Act. They can do it with a majority, but it will be politically a terrible look.
    
    Just as any business is prohibited by law to refuse service to, for example, a homosexual (s 21(1)(m)), they also cannot refuse service on the basis of political opinion (s21(1)(j), or on the basis of having an illness (i.e. implicit in the notion of discrimination on the basis of being unvaccinated) (s 21(1)(h)(ii)).
    
    The Bill of Rights Act 1990 also prohibits the state performing forced vaccination (s11) and, under s 19(1), freedom from discrimination on the basis of any of the grounds contained in the Human Rights Act 1993.
    
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    October 25, 2021 1:54pm
- Mrs_Right
  
  Whatever happened to ‘My body, my choice’??
  
  A bunch of hypocrites if you ask me.
  
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  October 25, 2021 11:29am
surfing

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/rowdy-avondale-state-house-triggers-72-auckland-council-noise-complaints-in-just-seven-months/27M6MWAGNHHZWWM34RTA3DHK64/

Only in NZ… if this was the US, the woman would be locked up.

If a woman can be responsible for 72 noise complaints, she clealy is not going to follow the rules in the future .

We have a noise complaint system where certain people are above the law.

Why should the neighbours be the ones who have to sell their houses?
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October 25, 2021 9:14am
- Benedict Yu
  
  It doesn’t work. You make a noise complaint. Next thing your windows are smashed and your car has been attacked with a hammer.
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:12am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    And good luck with the house viewings while the noise is going on.
    
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    October 25, 2021 11:00am
  - Colville
    
    [Deleted – not here thanks. mod.]
    
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    October 25, 2021 2:00pm
emmess

Someone posted about the lie that the NZ Herald repeated from the Guardian about Candace Owens the other day

Here is her response
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL1JWgpyL9E

Orginal page with the lie
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/covid-19-coronavirus-conservative-host-candace-owens-calls-for-us-to-invade-australia-to-free-people-from-tyranny/EANSZ4SWDBEWVPWYWHJN6LIDOQ/
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October 25, 2021 9:17am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The Ferald also left out what Candace said, just as The Guardian did. She said it was ‘in jest’ That tiny bit is not reported.
  It is all in the Youtube video. 13 minutes and well worth the watch.
  Candace Owens is going places
  
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  October 25, 2021 11:54am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The missed out bit is at 5.00 min in.
    So downtickers, tell me she never said that, or are you just plain stupid and Deaf?
    
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    October 25, 2021 12:08pm
emmess

Puppy killer Fauci
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncPtWihAhao
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October 25, 2021 9:19am
- dcrane
  
  Funny to imagine that this could be his downfall, and not the needless deaths of millions of people worldwide from an engineered virus he helped enable.
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:40am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Not sure if you saw this interesting development yet.
    Conspiracy theory they cried!
    
    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/10/nih-admits-funding-risky-virus-research-in-wuhan
    
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    October 25, 2021 12:54pm
Vory v zakone

New Covid VAERS (Vaccine
Adverse Event Reports) through the week ending October 15 2021.

818,042 Adverse Events
127,641 Doctor Visits
83,412 Hospitalizations
92,017 Urgent Care
26,199 Disabled
10,179 Bell’s Palsy
10,304 Myocarditis
8,408 Heart Attacks
2,631 Miscarriages
17,128 Deaths

100% Safe And Effective
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October 25, 2021 9:23am
- Benedict Yu
  
  You do realise this is all about proximity. Not causation. I challenge you to find any plausible evidence that the vaccine causes miscarriages.
  
  There are between 700000 and 900000 miscarriages in the USA every year. Guess what? Some of them will happen after the COVID vaccine.
  
  Posting your laundry list and your “Safe and effective” salutation is frankly idiotic. If you want to share information on the benefits and risks of the vaccine you will need to try harder.
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:20am
  - dcrane
    
    At the same time, I have seen credible arguments that the level of reporting in VAERS – especially the change from past patterns – far exceeds what is to be expected from the numbers now being vaccinated. If so, then many of these associated events are indeed being caused by the vaccines.
    
    It’s such an absurd outrage that all we really have is VAERS, a system that is not designed to gather data systematically. Why, with these vaccines being rushed out, and so much money being theown at covid, is there not a process in place to gather systematic data in real time and push it out??
    
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    October 25, 2021 10:38am
  - Alwyn Poole
    
    It can be close to home Benedict. One of my closest – in her 20s – had two major hospital visits with blood clots in the 3 days following her first shot two weeks ago. An anecdote – I know – but hard to think it was proximity.
    
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    October 25, 2021 11:09am
    - Alwyn Poole
      
      Heard that she will not be having her second shot …. pariah!
      
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      October 25, 2021 3:58pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Well, since the “authorities” took the quite deliberate step NOT to require adverse vaccine impacts to be recorded and thus deliberately made data collection on the safety of the vaccine hard to find and use, making use of the inadequate but available VAERS data is all that can be done.
    
    These vaccines are, by far, the least “safe” vaccines ever released and left released to large numbers of people; and yet we cannot properly evaluate their safety records.
    
    The proper response would be to set up a specific reporting mechanism and find out the true situation. If the data from VAERS is then showing a false overview, correct it. But I bet the ultimate response will be the opposite, ban the reporting of Covid vaccine adverse reactions. That should really reassure us all as to the safety of these vaccines.
    
    And just a note, VAERS is a voluntary system, and I’ve seen estimates that suggest that the reported rates are between 1 and 10% of the actual occurrences.
    
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    October 25, 2021 11:26am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Your response is actually closer to idiotic than the post you refer to.
    
    There is almost no possible way of proving what is actually happening currently because all parties involved have skewed statistics to suit political and/or financial aims. Particularly the bodies we expect to be able to trust in these matters like the CDC, MHRA and Medsafe.
    Looking at the source of funding for people like the CDC and WHO clearly shows massive potential for conflict of interest. The same with Otago University’s Infection Group who receive funding from GAVI and the Gates Foundation. Auckland University funding from The Wellcome Group. Some of their ties are very concerning.
    None of that is “conspiracy” it is provable fact. That is a diabolical situation. We are rapidly losing trust in all of our core institutions due to the influence of “philanthropic” funders.
    
    As for the numbers from the VAERS. They are all that we have in the way of responses to adverse effects. Same with the Yellow Card Reporting System in the UK and Eudravigilance in the EU. All of these databases are showing similar worrying numbers. We KNOW that correlation does not equal causation, but we also know that only between 1% and 10% of adverse reactions are reported. We also know that in previous vaccine rollouts such as swine flu were shut down rapidly after very few deaths.
    I know there have been many millions of vaccines administered, I know the risk of adverse reaction is relatively small, but we are now talking millions of reactions and tens of thousands of deaths among those reported. What are the real numbers?
    I also personally know of one lady who was deterred with extreme persuasion from reporting an adverse effect to CARM in NZ. 6 months later she is still struggling.
    
    No offence intended, your posts are usually very rational, but this response to US government data was not one of those posts. Dismissing it as irrelevant and calling it a “laundry list” was not good.
    
    The data from VAERS is real, certainly at least as real as the data about “covid deaths” which were any cause mortality within 28 days of a positive test. Or the data about hospitalisations after vaccination not being reported because the event didn’t happen until at least 14 days after the second dose. That’s some creative number crunching.
    
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    October 25, 2021 1:10pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      This was the response to the swine flu vaccine rollout after 3 deaths.
      https://www.nytimes.com/1976/10/13/archives/swine-flu-prograrm-is-halted-in-9-states-as-3-die-after-shots.html
      There have been more deaths after vaccination for covid than all other vaccines combined in the history of vaccine programmes. No matter how many people have had it, that is not acceptable. Particularly as we now know the thing doesn’t work as well as we were told, so now we are in for another experiment as the boosters are rolled out?
      
      I’ll stick with the control group, I’d rather wear a DNR lanyard, refuse to go to hospital and die at home than take part in an industrial scale experiment which is exactly what this is.
      When it truly is proven to be “safe and effective” I will reconsider. Just like every other of the multiple vaccines I’ve had throughout my life.
      
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      October 25, 2021 1:20pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Here, here.
        
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        October 25, 2021 1:50pm
  - Surely Knott
    
    Their are 29 deaths after vaccination that seem to be permanently marked under investigation. They will not clarify when those investigations will be finished. That is on the government. It is their job to be transparent and complete these examinations in a timely manner for public assurance of safety. For the ones they marked unlikely it’s unclear whether a medical investigation has been done or if they have just compared them to expected overall death rate.
    
    And one more interesting piece of news (July 2021) “In Q2, Pfizer’s revenues were up 86% operationally to $19bn – excluding sales of the BNT162b2 vaccine, revenues were still up 10% to $11bn.
    
    Other notable gains in the quarter included rare disease medication Vyndaqel/Vyndamax, which was up by 77%, while sales of its anticoagulant therapy Eliquis were also up by 13% driven by continued uptake in the transthyretin amyloid cardiomyopathy indication in the US.”
    
    “Vyndamax and Vyndaqel are FDA-approved to treat a type of heart condition called cardiomyopathy (CM). This condition prevents your heart muscles from working normally.”
    
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    October 25, 2021 5:26pm
I remember when

Once again a campaign that ignores the bits the Greens, etc, don’t see.
“This is how it Ends.”
The Antipodean Albatross and the problems that fishing are causing resulting in reducing numbers.
The second story is also about a seabird.
An area that Greenpeace like to highlight in their attacks on the fishing industry, from both the fish numbers and bird effects.
Fortunately land based birds are not affected by the growing of items for vegan or vegetarian diets.
Or the protection of those crops from predation by pests – just grow sufficient so that there is enough for all.
Or the synthetic fuel crops or turbine locations or solar energy farms.
Isn’t life simple.
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October 25, 2021 9:24am
NeverMindTheBollocks

In the context of how Maoriness may be defined, interesting to see the discussions going on in Canada – http://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/24/canada-inuit-nunatukavut
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October 25, 2021 9:26am
Yvette

Should the unvaccinated be forced to wear a yellow star?
Oh, yes – someone has gone there
Cameron Slater’s lot – wrongly or rightly? –

The Jews of Europe were legally compelled to wear badges or distinguishing garments (for example – pointed hats) at least as far back as the 13th century.
… The Nazis resurrected this practice as part of their persecutions during the Holocaust. Reinhard Heydrich, chief of the Reich Main Security Office, first recommended that Jews should wear identifying badges following the Kristallnacht pogrom of November 9 and 10, 1938. Shortly after the invasion of Poland in September 1939, local German authorities began introducing mandatory wearing of badges. [1]
– so perhaps a yellow badge, but extending the Star of David, with a few more points to look more like a covid virus.

Sadly, it is our own Prime Minister who is stigmatising and marginalising and victimising people. She has effectively declared the unvaccinated as untermenschen. Instead of uniting, she is dividing. The Team of Five Million is no more, it was nothing but a cheap charade. Worse still, she is laughing about it [2] :

linked video, under the title “Awful, awful, awful woman” –
https://twitter.com/viewspotnz/status/1451753502393339911?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1451847400381771781|twgr^|twcon^s3_&ref_url=https://thebfd.co.nz/2021/10/25/you-cant-vaccinate-your-way-to-freedom/

And being cheered on by people who constantly decry the marginalisation of Maori, the Rainbow community and Pasifika: … Those same people are now very active in victimising and marginalising people who have done nothing other than make a different decision than theirs.

Twitter–
Hamish Keith: The unvaccinated will feel isolated and picked on.
So they should.
David Joseph Dobin: I thought we’re fighting COVID, not humanity. [2]
________
But all this shit may be circumvented – if the covid virus suddenly reaches 90 percent audience penetration before any vaccination effort does.

[1] https://www.holocaustcenter.org/visit/library-archive/holocaust-badges/
[2] https://thebfd.co.nz/2021/10/25/you-cant-vaccinate-your-way-to-freedom/
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October 25, 2021 9:30am
- alloytoo
  
  Perhaps a traffic light system for the population.
  
  A orange/amber patch is the default designation.
  Approach with caution.
  
  If you have covid, a red patch.
  
  Stop, stay away.
  
  Green, If you have recovered from covid.
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:09am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    In a few weeks the traffic lights will be abandoned – too childish. We will move to emojis. Angry ones, smiling ones, and sad ones
    
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    October 25, 2021 11:57am
    - Yvette
      
      Steve, but every Ardern idea has its draw-backs.
      An emoji system will require all other use of emojis – emails, social media and advertising – to be abandoned … and that may not go down so well among some who can’t now communicate without them ;o) :o) :o( ɹǝƃƃnq
      
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      October 25, 2021 12:37pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Advertising – yeah sure. Ever noticed that todays’ ads are very very childish?
        
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        October 25, 2021 2:00pm
Spoff

Interview with Dr Peter McCullough on this page.
Vital information regarding treatment:
https://www.cracknewz.com/2021/10/drs-ardis-and-mccullough-talk-about.html
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October 25, 2021 9:43am
Diogenes

Many thanks to Alwyn Poole for his guest post on KB today. I am also a Christian, but have been deeply disturbed at how easily the church at large has simply rolled over like an obedient puppy to all the government mandates on social control. We have swallowed the government line completely, without any questioning. Where is the spirit of the first century Christians who were prepared to stand against government dictate even if it cost them their lives? Or countless others in totalitarian countries today who defy the authorities at great cost? We have become a gutless people, and perhaps are getting the government we now deserve.
I am not suggesting that that means we should act irresponsibly. But we need discernment as to what is reasonable/helpful in combating Covid, and what the government is simply making up as it goes along.
Alwyn writes: “Those without vaccine certificates are about to become the new lepers. How abhorrent to ask churches to exclude them. Of course they should take massive care – but there is an enormous gap between that and creating a new set of pariah’s.”
Here is a line in the sand that churches must draw, or we deny the One who gave us life.
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October 25, 2021 9:47am
- Albert_Ross
  
  “Of course they should take massive care – but there is an enormous gap between that and creating a new set of pariah’s”
  
  Fine. What exactly would “taking massive care” look like?
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:13am
  - Alwyn Poole
    
    Hello Albert.
    Similar to what we would like to see in our schools. Whether someone is vaccinated or not is only semi-relevant. We want to know if they are sick or not (rapid antigen testing). Vaccinated people can catch the virus and pass it on. People without covid cannot pass it on. Churches can take great care to ask symptomatic people to stay at home and attend online. They can ensure high ventilation and indoor masking. During summer they may choose to meet outside.
    
    What a church should not do is consider – in any way shape or form – that there are “two classes of people”.
    
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    October 25, 2021 11:19am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Seems to me that you are just defining your two classes differently.
      
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      October 25, 2021 11:55am
      - Alwyn Poole
        
        People are sick for a little while and then get well. Creating a permanent underclass is a different matter.
        
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        October 25, 2021 12:23pm
      - MCos
        
        There’s always a permanent underclass, covid-19 or not.
        Furthermore
        They are predominantly the ones that are further disadvantaged by the current epidemic.
        They are not likely to be able to work from home. They work in the supermarkets, drive the buses, provide security, repair the drains, all jobs likely to bring each other into contact with covid-19.
        They often live in smaller dwellings with multiple generations and bigger families.
        They fill the churches, or did.
        They don’t get to scurry off to holiday homes . . . .
        
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        October 25, 2021 1:29pm
      - Alwyn Poole
        
        MCos – you are right – and they need our care not our vilification. We are getting a bit close to the world of Ben Hur for a 21st Century nation.
        
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        October 25, 2021 2:19pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Hear hear. I will be watching our church leadership’s response to this.
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:24am
- Don Beckett
  
  Totally in agreement. Our Christian Church leaders need to grow spines.
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:45am
- Alwyn Poole
  
  Thank you.
  
  Public feeling has shifted greatly.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300436511/mood-how-are-you-feeling-about-the-current-covid-situation-in-auckland
  
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  October 25, 2021 11:55am
Surely Knott

A disease so powerful so deadly that two people can have it, and both are well enough to go on a drive to the laundromat and have a violent domestic in the middle of the street.
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October 25, 2021 9:55am
- MCos
  
  It may come as news to you, but covid-19, like polio for example, has different effects on different people.
  
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  October 25, 2021 12:48pm
  - Surely Knott
    
    Lol you’re having a laugh. It may come as news to you that Polio and Covid delta are not even remotely in the same ballpark as you well know, nor are the safety and the efficacy of their respective vaccines. The govt flying monkeys trying to argue for the removal of our liberties repeatedly try and use false equivalence examples of deadly pandemics and sterilising vaccines instead of evaluating the current situation and it’s data.
    
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    October 25, 2021 5:10pm
Littletramp

Here’s a problem not many are commenting on but IMHO is very relevant.
We are getting more and more covid data as time passes, but the only promoted analysis is coming from politicians, approved healthcare workers and journalists.Why are we not getting the best data analysts to tell us what is happening in reality.
This is the same phenomenon with working on treatments being censored. A solution would fix the whole problem but no one that matters is looking in that direction.
Could it to be given the profits big pharma and media is making, and the attention politicians in power are getting from this vaccine go round, they don’t want to find a solution?
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October 25, 2021 9:56am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Where would you expect to find such analysis?
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:14am
  - Littletramp
    
    Try the old fashioned logic being applied by this Dutch guy.
    http://adam.curry.com/html/WithAdamCurry-fKWs2gT0t8Lmmdbc20N081fsPbHJNs.html
    
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    October 25, 2021 11:12am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    I have very many sources of reliable information, too many to list here. Swiss Policy Research is a good site, also Off Guardian and the Daily Sceptic.
    
    https://swprs.org/contact/
    https://off-guardian.org/
    https://dailysceptic.org/
    
    PS, don’t smear the source, if any data is wrong, fill your boots and let me know. I don’t like reading wrong information nor passing it on. That’s why I haven’t read The Herald, watched TVOne or Three or listened to RNZ for the last 18 months.
    
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    October 25, 2021 1:34pm
- Fletch
  
  Yep, we are getting reporting heavily from one side.
  
  Yesterday on 1 News was the first big breakthrough – they interviewed a female teacher who has still not decided to get vaxxed because she checked out the Medsafe site and was shocked at the number of adverse effects (the media did not mention the deaths at all).
  
  There were calls to make the site more “user friendly” and positive. I see the site now has a disclaimer at the top of the page saying not to base your vaccination on any info on the site but to talk to your GP.
  
  To my way of thinking, it is exactly what you should base your decision on. We aren’t hearing enough about adverse effects and those who do not agree with the vaccine – other doctors from NZDSOS and such – have had their voices locked out. In a real democracy we should be hearing equally from both sides. We have a media who is in lockstep with the govt.
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:24am
  - NK
    
    That’s really interesting Fletch, if only because it’s the Government’s drug site!! Fark, this is the government telling us on the one hand only to believe what they tell us about Covid and the vaccine, and no one else, and now they’re essentially disclaiming all and any facts around it.
    
    This is so bad!!!
    
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    October 25, 2021 2:48pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Global bio-identity is the end game. The ugly ménage à trois consisting of UN, Big Pharma and Davos Man has this in their sights.
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:28am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    I think you might enjoy reading this kk. I found it very interesting, not saying it is 100% accurate but it makes at least as much sense as most theories, and a lot more sense than the “deadly plague” narrative.
    
    https://thephilosophicalsalon.com/a-self-fulfilling-prophecy-systemic-collapse-and-pandemic-simulation/
    
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    October 25, 2021 1:46pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Thanks. I’ve read a couple of essays that build a case for this causative relationship. I admit, it looks plausible.
      
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      October 25, 2021 3:48pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Our media are catering to people whose prime concern is what to wear and what to put on their face. The last thing they want to hear about is data.
  
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  October 25, 2021 10:37am
- Prince
  
  I have mentioned this before, but I notice the % vaccination number is constantly being massaged, by changing the total population number downwards (reducing the denominator has the effect of increasing the percentage).
  The change is not huge, but twice in the last 6 weeks the ‘population’ has been reduced by around 20,000 – raising the % vaccination by around 0.5%.
  So the DoH ‘population over over 12’s is now around 4,209,000 while the Dept of Stats number remains constant at around 4,339,000.
  
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  October 25, 2021 12:27pm
alloytoo

There are a lot of cute little stories about equity vs equality most of these hinge around a fuzzy notion of fairness and most are easily debunked.

I have a true story which may illustrate equity for everyone.

In 1999 I was standing in a queue for South African Home Affairs in order to apply for a new identity document.

The day before I had visited the office, procured the correct form and completed it at home.

Upon arrival I joined the single queue which twisted it’s way around the hall like room. Ahead of me in the queue was a lady who was also holding a pre-completed form. On the columns which supported the roof were signs indicating a phone number to call in respect of complaints or suggestions.

The queue was very slow, reason being that many of the people applying for documents were illiterate and that person servicing the counter had to complete the forms on their behalf.

The lady ahead of me decided to phone the suggestion number (she had a mobile phone, I did not) and suggest that an express queue be opened for those people who had pre-completed forms. Such a queue would speed up the process for everyone and shorten the existing queue a tremendously.

She was advised that such an express queue had once existed, but had been discontinued due to complaints.

Herein lies the lesson:

Equality is not making everyone stand in the same queue. Equality is the provision of someone to complete the forms on behalf of those who cannot.

The result, everyone moves along a little faster, though some do move faster than others, according to their effort and means.

Equity means that everyone moves along at the slowest possible pace irrespective of their effort and means.

Here endeth the lesson.
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October 25, 2021 10:03am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Equality is not making everyone stand in the same queue. Equality is the provision of someone to complete the forms on behalf of those who cannot.
  
  The result, everyone moves along a little faster, though some do move faster than others, according to their effort and means.
  
  Equity means that everyone moves along at the slowest possible pace irrespective of their effort and means.
  
  On the contrary, equality is making everybody stand in the same queue. It’s equity that requires treating different people differently on the basis of their different needs.
  
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  October 25, 2021 11:38am
  - alloytoo
    
    ah Albert,
    
    Equality is the opportunity to obtain the service.
    Practicality suggests you do it as efficiently as possible.
    
    My real world example was a result of social justice warriors deciding that it wasn’t fair that certain people should spend a shorter time in the queue than the rest, irrespective of whether it speeded the queue up for everyone.
    
    That’s real world equity courtesy of a socialist government.
    
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    October 25, 2021 12:24pm
    - Albert_Ross
      
      You are now contrasting equality with practicality, which is a very different proposition from contrasting it with equity.
      
      Both equity and equality can be the enemies of practicality if unintelligently applied.
      
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      October 25, 2021 1:12pm
Fletch

Remember Dave Dobbyn’s tweet the other day?

David Joseph Dobbyn

“Perhaps you’re right. But one could suspect mandate’s and authoritarianism could become far more lethal in the medium term. Especially in a climate of fashionable neo- Marxism. History proves it over & over.”

Well, the tweet, and his account, mysteriously disappeared yesterday. When you tried to look at his account, it said, “Something went wrong, try again”. It’s back today (reinstated?) but all tweets going back to 2019 until today have vanished.

Looks like he has been given the hard word, or been banned and restored.
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October 25, 2021 10:09am
- Fletch
  
  ps, now he has a Facebook post –
  
  I am double vaccinated.
  I encourage it for everyone.
  But I call out the unkindness directed at those who haven’t yet taken the step. #fightcovidnothumanity
  
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  October 25, 2021 11:00am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The spin has been spun…
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-sir-dave-dobbyn-reveals-vaccination-views-after-twitter-controversy/WRZBHTNSDTSYJNHQ5BIAP2F6BU/
  
  Looks like the trolls tried to out him as an anti-vaxxer…
  
  Now we have a story placing him in a minor role – backing down to Hamish Keith and showing he is Loyal- as a double vaxxer.
  
  The entire point of Dobbyn’s tweets has been sidelined.
  
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  October 25, 2021 2:17pm
  - Fletch
    
    He was correct in his tweet, of course, but you can’t be a high profile personality in NZ and not be targeted by the media and establishment if you don’t toe the politically correct line. Got to be made to appear to fall in line.
    
    Is interesting from a link above that former TVNZ presenter Liz Gunn is against the govt control as well. Of course, they are painting her as a loonie.
    
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    October 25, 2021 2:56pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      and here comes the second piece of spin…
      trying to explain away the behaviour of the trolls who ran hits against Dobbyn
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/126780642/covid-19-dave-dobbyn-social-media-backlash-highlights-vaccination-polarisation
      
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      October 25, 2021 4:56pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        It is certainly unusual to find such praise on this blog, given many Kiwibloggers’ notable antipathy to Sir David’s good friend Ahmed Zaoui.
        
        4 3
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        October 25, 2021 5:11pm
    - doggone7
      
      Is the media painting Liz Gunn as a “loonie?”
      
      Let what she said stand as it is and let people paint her as they will:
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/former-nz-television-presenter-liz-gunn-claims-earthquake-was-mother-natures-response-to-jacinda-arderns-covid-19-announcement/HKJ3XVM27CDVJUSZ7KRL2L5LM4/
      
      From that I’m sure my mum would have concluded, “She’s off her rocker.”
      
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      October 26, 2021 12:25pm
- kevn
  
  @Fletch… Semi de-platformed?
  
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  October 25, 2021 2:23pm
DeepBlue

An update on Victoria’s passports and vax rate.

A libertarian says ““However, with vaccination rates continuing to rise and likely resulting in more than 90 per cent of the population being fully vaccinated, long-term restrictions for those who have chosen not to be vaccinated is not proportionate to human rights.”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/300437741/covid19-australia-most-of-victorias-restrictions-will-end-in-november-with-one-exception?
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October 25, 2021 10:10am
Biscuit

‘When you walk’ etc etc…

Manchester United 0 (0)
Liverpool (4) 5

Alec Baldwin had more shots than United did in that game!!!
Even those in the disabled section of Old Trafford were walking out at halftime. Remarkable scenes…

I’ll get my coat…
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October 25, 2021 10:11am
- Warren
  
  Not very pretty.
  
  1 0
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  October 25, 2021 12:36pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  It was a once in a decade thing of beauty. Walk on through the wind, walk on through the rain…….
  
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  October 25, 2021 2:39pm
Yvette

New Zealand’s new pandemic approach is “a real-life Squid Game for Māori”, the Māori party has said – likening plans unveiled on Friday to the viral Netflix show where contestants compete in children’s games and the losers are executed.
Their comments came as the prime minister, Jacinda Ardern, laid out plans to lift most restrictions when the country reached 90% vaccination – and amid concerns that the new roadmap would result in disproportionate illness and death for Indigenous people. [surely “Nation’s first immigrants”, but – ]

“On every single Covid indicator, Māori are significantly behind every other ethnicity,” the Māori party co-leader Debbie Ngarewa-Packer said in a statement. “On every single indicator, Māori are likely to take the biggest hits from a Delta outbreak, vaccinated or not.
“The PM says no one will be left behind,” co-leader Rawiri Waititi said. “What she means is no one will be left behind except for Māori. Let the Squid Games begin.” [1]

Surely no Maori is unaware of covid, nor that the vaccine is the only solution offered.
Under the Treaty, Article 3, “the Crown” is to protect Maori as any other “British subject”.
That protection at the moment is the vaccine.

Why doesn’t the Māori party co-leader Debbie Ngarewa-Packer, or other co-leader Rawiri Waititi, simply point that out?

Under He Puapua some despair that, contra to the Treaty (“We are one” – Hobson, or someone 181 years ago), the nation will be split into Maori and non-Maori.
Under Ardern it may be split into unvaccinated and vaccinated.
But that may still be a Maori and non-Maori split.

And that split may not even necessarily at the behest of Ardern, the Maori Party, or any politicians –
but as determined by a brainless but reproduction driven virus.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/22/new-zealand-covid-ardern-unveils-post-lockdown-traffic-light-system-linked-to-90-vaccination-rate
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October 25, 2021 10:22am
Taieri

Why are we not getting the best data analysts to tell us what is happening in reality.
————-

But we do. Professor Shaun Hendy MNZM never stops analyzing. Professor Rod Jackson has even stopped sleeping at night being so busy with analyses. And as we know, both are the bestest…
11 1
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October 25, 2021 10:31am
Chuck Bird

Karel Sroubek

I believe Sroubek is awaiting his appeal. I wonder when it will happen now. I think he has been out on parole for over a year now.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/search/Karel%20Sroubek/
22 2
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October 25, 2021 10:37am
- Souvlaki
  
  Erstwhile supplier to ‘celebrity ‘clients…probably be given a gong in New Years honours.
  
  16 0
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  October 25, 2021 11:00am
- Prince
  
  Probably scheduled a few days after Dotcom’s.
  
  7 0
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  October 25, 2021 12:17pm
Lee C

Re the 1000 cases before it was detected:
I have earlier mentioned a good friend of mine had a virus he ‘just couldn’t shake’ and I took it home to my wife and our children.

My good friend is in his seventies with diabetes and heart/blood pressure issues. He was debilitated for a few days but eventually shook it off.

The kids and I had a baton-passed 24-hour bug (headache, lassitude, need to sleep) and then went about our lives.

Others ridiculed this when I said it first time (‘Oh! you must have been case zero!”)

But using your brain a bit indicated to me that covid had already been here.

Guess what? It may have already swept through many of the population who would now have immunity.

Of course the first ‘Lock-Down’ would have effectively stopped or greatly reduced that as an option, Wouldn’t it?

But of course, a long-term manufactured crisis is so much better for a needy inept politician, than an effective solution could ever be.

As history will reveal.
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October 25, 2021 11:03am
- septic skeptic
  
  I would think the PCR testing would throw up a lot more weak positives from historical cases if we had had widespread undetected transmission some time ago.
  
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  October 25, 2021 12:31pm
Tony Stuart

A win for terminally ill Andrew and his aunt, for Dr Shane Reti and for common decency:

We won we won ! Andrews aunt just got approval to travel to Auckland to her dying nephew. After media highlights on Thursday a QC solicitor volunteered and we worked up the case yesterday. He told Hipkins, Bloomfield and the Deputy Solicitor General you have until 6pm today (Saturday) to fix this or I will file an urgent injunction in the high court. At 530pm today we got the approval. So pleased for Moyra, so pleased for Andrew. Thank you to the community for your support. It did make a difference but most small voices don’t have access to a QC so now we need to take this precedent and make it a principle for everyone in the same situation. As Andrew’s aunt said, sometimes the good guys have to win. She did, they did, the small voices were heard and New Zealanders won. Thank you.

https://www.facebook.com/drshanereti/photos/pcb.4759168954134104/4759165990801067/

Big ups to Dr Shane for taking up this case, and to the unnamed QC who, seeing a gross injustice, offered their services to put things right. Limited kudos too for MBIE, for finally putting things right, even if it took the threat of a High Court injunction!
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October 25, 2021 11:03am
Lee C

edit: ‘debilitated for a few days’ should read ‘about a month – but laid up for a few days’
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October 25, 2021 11:05am
I remember when

What would people have said if it had been reported in 1919 that in 2020/1 there would be a similar pandemic.

Except that as a proportion of the population at the time – it would only have 5% of the deaths.
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October 25, 2021 11:59am
- I remember when
  
  Whoops! I’m getting like Shaun Hendy.
  Exaggerating.
  Should be 1.92%.
  
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  October 25, 2021 12:08pm
ABS4EVA

VACCINES
are now about Confidence

according to the Socialist Witches

So you should feel confident they have given
you ONE option when they are many
and the decision is actually political
expediency that Favour them retaining
their Salaries and PERKS

Confidence and Control
9 2
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October 25, 2021 12:12pm
ABS4EVA

One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,

In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
8 2
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October 25, 2021 12:14pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDBJCzcTafA

Economy Surgeon Jinping’s euthanizing Chinese companies.

Going ahead, China is set to face a bigger disaster – shrinking consumer demand and skyrocketing production prices. [7:00. So, what’s the downside?]
2 1
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October 25, 2021 12:16pm
curry4me

https://voicesforfreedom.co.nz/blog/post/exemptions

Hold the Line.

Late last night the widely anticipated “No Jab, No Job” Order was finally gazetted and circulated. (Two and half weeks after the first announcement from the podium.)
The timing sure is ironic isn’t it? A Labour government bringing in new mandates threatening the livelihoods of its core workforce of educators, health care professionals and prison workers on a Labour weekend – coming into force on Labour Day no less…
That said, upon close examination of the amending Order, there’s an unannounced addition: an exemption. The government must have been so excited that it forgot share any details of it in any of its numerous press conferences – including yesterday!
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October 25, 2021 12:17pm
curry4me

https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_breakingnews/biden-plays-chicken-with-semitruck-drivers_4063261.html?utm_source=News&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breaking-2021-10-24-1&mktids=e42d9ac2f275cf7c82ae75de9f1589cf&est=yJI4gnmA0BIWOUssodIVrWCbJiP5cOHx9CjabynEJ6Gium0cXPjqR4xw0E1VYTU%3D

Vaccine Mandate Threatens Major Trucking Disruption, Industry Insiders Say

American truckers don’t like taking orders. But the Biden administration has increased pressure on some of them to take the vaccine—willing or unwilling.
All through the pandemic, truckers endured hardships to keep America’s infrastructure running. They waited in line for hours in sight of bathrooms they weren’t allowed to use. On the road, some died alone of COVID-19.
Now, with supply chains disrupted, Americans need them more than ever. But faced with the prospect of a mandated vaccination, many drivers are considering quitting.
13 1
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October 25, 2021 12:19pm
septic skeptic

A proposed opening date of 1 December was suggested initially by ACT and subsequently taken up by National. To illustrate how conservative this is, note that if you haven’t yet started the vax program – there is still no need to rush out today and interrupt your long weekend. If you start tomorrow, and get the second shot in 3 weeks – you will still reach peak immunity before the proposed date!
What the F are we waiting for! Anyone who is not double vaxxed by December has chosen not to get vaxxed!
12 0
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October 25, 2021 12:46pm
CAKE FACE1

CAKE thinks that the polls must surely change.

The question is when…
7 2
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October 25, 2021 1:01pm
- dcrane
  
  A few more weekends like this one, locked in by both the government AND the rain might do the trick.
  
  8 1
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  October 25, 2021 1:59pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  ‘No matter what we do, no matter what we say’
  Yup crazy leftie Bradford
  
  5 2
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  October 25, 2021 2:06pm
Flossie

To me the numbers of positive tests each day is pointless. A better indicator would be the percentage of tests done that show a positive result.
Even better again, let us know how many people are actually ill.
Good that we are told numbers in hospital and numbers in ICU.
8 0
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October 25, 2021 1:14pm
- dcrane
  
  Yes this is how the stats were being reported in the states more than a year ago. Our incompetent leaders still haven’t caught on or don’t wish to.
  
  8 1
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  October 25, 2021 1:58pm
- mawm
  
  And how many are vaccinated!
  
  2 0
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  October 25, 2021 7:24pm
ABS4EVA

DIVERSITY is OUR STRENGTH

Some people in the Community have Cancer

Do we all take Cancer Medicine

Some have heart disease do we all take
Heart Medicine
6 2
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October 25, 2021 1:16pm
- Yvette
  
  ABS4EVA – Some have heart disease do we all take Heart Medicine
  
  However, if you suspect you have cancer or heart disease (and I have) you take medication or whatever steps you can to allay the condition.
  As all are susceptible to contract covid – it is as much a Lotto-type chance as who stands next to you – so it is prudent to take the only means available to avoid serious covid illness, or perhaps death – as is likely in several cases I know – including quite likely my own
  
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  October 25, 2021 1:58pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    I would only ever suggest that you be very careful. Most medicines are tested for a very long time and even then, some are recalled a decade later as new information is uncovered.
    In the case of the covid vaccines, that is the reason they were initially only give Emergency Use Authority. If someone was in dire need and willing to try anything they could give it a go. It’s the whole rationale behind EUA.
    This is still an experiment and it will still be an experiment in 5 years. To date, it isn’t an experiment that is going very well.
    
    https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/an-epidemic-of-the-vaccinated
    
    https://trialsitenews.com/proof-that-the-cdc-is-lying-to-the-world-about-covid-vaccine-safety/
    
    How it got “approval” is very suspect. Particularly in NZ. We do NO testing here. Instead we rely solely on data supplied by Pfizer from trials in which they “accidentally lost” the control group.
    
    https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/02/19/969143015/long-term-studies-of-covid-19-vaccines-hurt-by-placebo-recipients-getting-immuni
    
    I’m sure you’re fully aware of Pfizer’s criminal and fraudulent rap sheet.
    You may or may not be as susceptible as you think you are but that is for you to decide. But take the data we are being fed by the government with a large pinch of salt.
    
    6 2
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    October 25, 2021 2:51pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I have low level prostate cancer – active surveillance.
  Be aware, the free health care in NZ is not all it is cracked up to be, including 20 DHBs. Next year there will be ONE Health Board, what could possibly go wrong?
  
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  October 25, 2021 2:10pm
waripori

Professor Skeggs, who has been one of the Governments main men on this Covid thing has said there were 1000 cases in Auckland before it was detected. This should be enormous news as it would mean everything we have been told since August is rubbish. How does he know this and who else knows? Does this mean the person in MIQ who is supposed to be case zero may not be? Did they catch it from someone else in MIQ who was subsequently released while still infectious?
If there were 1000 cases in Auckland which was then at level 2 why have we not had thousands more cases? Have we had thousands more cases but most so mild no one knew they were sick?

It seems to me to call the lockdowns and vax drive to 90% into serious question but there has been almost no reaction.
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October 25, 2021 2:07pm
- dcrane
  
  Good questions.
  
  For others, a non-paywalled link with Skeggs info toward the end
  
  https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/covid-19/covid-19-delta-outbreak-109-cases-today-more-infections-in-northland-waikato/
  
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  October 25, 2021 4:23pm
Spoff

Counterspin Media Chief Medical Correspondent, Shane Chafin, U.S Board Certified Pharmacist, takes the gloves and pulls no punches as he K.O’s the government Covid narrative.
https://rumble.com/vnvy06-counterspin-ep.-36-covid-ko.html
9 2
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October 25, 2021 2:11pm
- Fletch
  
  Wow, he really puts the smackdown.
  This lockdown, vaccination, passport apartheid stuff has got to stop.
  
  6 2
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  October 25, 2021 4:40pm
Lee C

Go Jaz Ardern!
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October 25, 2021 2:27pm
- lifesgood
  
  Lee C You missed out “away”
  
  9 0
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  October 25, 2021 4:54pm
MCos

What’s init for me?
https://twitter.com/paulbrislen/status/1452375668147175427?s=21
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October 25, 2021 2:39pm
WaveyDavey

Numbers!

Total vaccinations yesterday: 18,985
1st doses: 5,335
Number target reduced by: 5,082
7 day average target reduced by: 8,344
Target: 3,789,000
Doses: 3,663,057
Difference: 125,943

Days to 90% at today’s number 126,000/5,000 = 25
Days to 90% day average 126,000/8,300 = 15

add 21 days for 2nd dose and add 14 days for maximum efficacy

50-60 days, 6-9 weeks: 6 Dec to 27 Dec at the earliest
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October 25, 2021 3:09pm
- Stu2
  
  The first dose rates are dropping so maybe slower than 15 days.
  
  Early in Oct 18-19k was common on weekdays, in the next week it was more like 15k, and last week 10k. Partly the effect of the big Saturday, and partly that the remaining people are more reluctant.
  
  6/10/2021 19,095
  7/10/2021 19,970
  8/10/2021 18,800
  9/10/2021 18,455
  10/10/2021 9,111
  11/10/2021 15,346
  12/10/2021 17,673
  13/10/2021 15,896
  14/10/2021 15,241
  15/10/2021 14,087
  16/10/2021 39,543
  17/10/2021 6,288
  18/10/2021 10,038
  19/10/2021 10,392
  20/10/2021 10,410
  21/10/2021 10,066
  22/10/2021 11,368
  23/10/2021 11,777
  24/10/2021 5,335
  
  BTW the average over the last 7 days was 9912.
  And the target is really 3912.3k. That chicken will come home to roost eventually.
  
  But national averages don’t matter now. The question is whether the Northland, Lakes and Tairawhiti DHBs will hit 90, and when.
  
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  October 25, 2021 4:02pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The 90% target should be challenged. It’s purely administrative ere it’s justified. The whole scheme if dissected carefully may be subject to judicial review. Denying citizens their rights is firstly not allowed. To go beyond that enforcers have to prove their case. The default position is stacked against them.
    
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    October 25, 2021 5:27pm
    - Stu2
      
      90% is based on the Hendry model, which predicted dire outcomes at 80%. Court is not the place to challenge a model.
      
      Or did you mean challenging the localised DHB requirement even if NZ as a whole is at 90%?
      
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      October 25, 2021 5:47pm
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Those aren’t the numbers I’m talking about
    
    Yours are the number of 1st doses in total
    
    Mine are numbers towards the target – ie extra because booked 1st doses are already counted as vaccinated in terms of the target
    
    My averages are the number that the shortfall to the target is reduced by
    
    They are closing now because hardly any advance 1st dose bookings are left to be performed ~1% now and at one point they were up around the 20% mark
    
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    October 25, 2021 5:55pm
- Stu2
  
  And from the DHB reporting MoH is doing now.
  
  From the 21st to the 24th the change in the first dose % was:
  
  Northland 77.0% to 77.7%
  Lakes 78.0% to 78.7%
  Tairawhiti 75.3% to 76.1%
  
  The holiday weekend, a Saturday and a Sunday probably mean this isn’t typical, but don’t hold your breath.
  
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  October 25, 2021 4:25pm
- krazykiwi
  
  These numbers are only useful if one doesn’t access to bread and circuses.
  
  4 2
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  October 25, 2021 5:12pm
Maggy Wassilieff

25C in the shade and I’ve had to retreat indoors…
5 1
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October 25, 2021 3:49pm
Fletch

Off topic – why does my computer work so hard when visiting Kiwiblog? Especially after I post. CPU performance goes between 30 and 40%
Is it something to do with the edit countdown?
6 2
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October 25, 2021 4:43pm
- Lucia Maria
  
  Fletch, I think it’s the ads – especially the one on the right that keeps refreshing.
  
  1 2
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  October 25, 2021 9:45pm
Joely Doe

‘Horrific holiday’: Road toll grows to eight as Labour Weekend turns to carnage

8 dead in 3 days…
And how many are dead from this latest outbreak – over 10 weeks now, is it?
Can someone remind me why I am supposed to be scared?
16 4
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October 25, 2021 5:15pm
- krazykiwi
  
  JD, you are supposed to be scared, really really scared so Ardern can win a global vaxx pissing contest as part of her aspiration to be promoted to an altogether more luxurious trough at the UN. Once she’s gone you, your children and your grandchildren can labour to clean up the devastation left in the wake of her hubris.
  
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  October 25, 2021 7:03pm
Bluegrass

[Wordpress works in mysterious ways Bg.]
0 1
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October 25, 2021 6:40pm
- Bluegrass
  
  Heh.
  
  0 0
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  October 26, 2021 5:10pm
fernglas

An excellent point made by Andre, commenting at the Standard:
“$120 million to Maori health providers is a worthy step, but looking at Hokianga Health, I really doubt funding more community outreach and more mobile clinics is actually going to result in a lot of success. Because Hokianga Health is a locally led and controlled health organisation that is apparently highly regarded for its outreach and mobile clinic services for remote communities as their regular mode of operation. Yet the vaccination rate in the areas they serve remains very low, and indeed the vax rates of their own employees is very low. The bulk of the problem appears to lie somewhere other than outreach and mobile clinics.”
It’s not a racist colonial health system, but a reluctance by people to be vaccinated. But no-one seems to be asking why. It’s not just Maori, it’s teachers, cops, midwives and probably the couple next door. Ninety per cent sounds good, but that still means something like 400,000 people who will not be vaccinated. If even one percent of those need hospital treatment, the system will collapse. But no-one seems to want to ask why. It’s the easiest question in the book. Why?
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October 25, 2021 6:45pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  We’re back to the guts of this whole scenario. The misguided belief that the unvaccinated will fill the hospitals. Overseas evidence is clearly showing that isn’t accurate. NZ is just behind in the rollout. The UK is now over 60% vaxxed in hospitals. Same in Israel, same in Gibraltar, Iceland, Singapore. Czechoslovakia who were similar to NZ a year ago now getting smashed.
  The vaccines aren’t going to stop anything and they may cause absolute mayhem come next winter.
  
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  October 25, 2021 8:30pm
- cmm
  
  Not everyone is at equal risk and the 80/20 or 90/10 rules apply:
  
  The vast majority of the risk (say 90 %) lies in a small number of people (say 10%).
  
  So long as the majority of the people at high risk are vaccinated, the rest don’t really make a difference.
  
  Mega-fatties, people with serious hear conditions, asthma, diabetes, etc. So long as they’re vaccinated the we’re probably good.
  
  So why are the scientists etc who are supposed to be informing us telling us this? Perhaps they don’t want to be seen to be racist/fat shaming/whatever.
  
  We don’t need 90% vaccination. All we need is 10-20% – the right 10-20%.
  
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  October 25, 2021 8:41pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Indeed, and yet more evidence emerging that vaccination status has no bearing on your ability to pass it on to others, in fact, if you get the jab then become infected with covid you are likely carrying more viral load. This was predicted.
    
    https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/study-destroys-justification-for
    
    2 1
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    October 25, 2021 9:48pm
ClanMcleod

Bojo has come out and clearly stated the jab doesn’t stop infection or transmission – so what’s the point of the vaccine certificate? Ardern needs to be compelled to explain this also.

https://dailysceptic.org/2021/10/24/boris-admits-the-vaccine-doesnt-protect-you-against-catching-the-disease-and-it-doesnt-protect-you-against-passing-it-on/
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October 25, 2021 9:39pm
Nickc2

“Don’t shade ME,” mutters Cindy as she . . . . .
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10126663/Jacinda-Ardern-slammed-pushing-sign-language-interpreter-view.html
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October 26, 2021 2:49am

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