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October 4, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 04 October 2021

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General Debate

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Benedict Yu

Regular readers will recall that yesterday I cited a study from Israel covering 2.5 million people. This is all about reinfection. What happens to people AFTER they get COVID or AFTER they get vaccinated.

The conclusion is that natural immunity offers 13 times (some articles say 27 times) the immunity that the vaccine provides. Qualifier.. this is for now. It is too early to say that natural infection provides ‘life time’ immunity. But there is now very strong evidence that such infection provides ‘long lasting’ immunity and that the Pfizer vaccine, at least, provides ‘short lasting’ immunity against infection.

Now I would have thought that given Jacinda’s plan to “stamp out covid” like measles, using the Pfizer vaccine, this Israeli study would be screaming headline news in New Zealand. But no.

Anyway over in the USA Senator Rand Paul HAS read the Israeli study. He destroys this senior official from the USA Health Department who is touring the country telling people who have recovered from COVID infection that their natural immunity doesn’t work and they need to get vaccinated.

https://youtu.be/MI_Dm3pj3dQ

The guy appearing before the Senate Committee had never heard of the Israeli study.

Here is another really interesting observation from the UK.

https://youtu.be/MI_Dm3pj3dQ

See 15:45 in the video. 93.6 percent of the entire population in the UK have covid antibodies, acquired from EITHER the vaccine or from infection, or both. However even at that level, people are becoming sick and dying every day. The numbers per 1000 people who are dying are much higher in the unvaccinated but there are still many breakthrough infections in vaccinated that result in hospitalisation and death.

This UK data destroys Jacinda’s argument that if we had 90 percent vaccination rates we could open up and everything would be fine. The UK has 93.6 percent of the entire population with either vaccination or the much stronger natural immunity from infection. And people are getting sick and dying of COVID every day, albeit at rates a fraction of those that the UK saw in pre vaccine times.

To repeat my message from yesterday, Jacinda can only STOP COVID from restrictions and border closures. She can reduce sickness and death by vaccination, but not the spread of the virus.

Vaccinations WILL slow down the spread of the virus in New Zealand. Once it gets underway the unvaccinated will quickly become infected. Then 8 months after vaccination many of the vaccinated will start to become infected, most with trivial symptoms.

There are no rational reasons to maintain quarantine requirements on any vaccinated travellers once we hit ‘peak vaccinated’.

I can’t emphasise enough how important this data and its implications are for the Government’s plans for the COVID response. And this was a study involving 2.5 million people.

Final note . The study showed that people who had been vaccinated and were subsequently infected had even stronger levels of immunity than people who had been only infected only.

Here are a couple of links to articles on the study but there are dozens if you want to search.

https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital

https://www.timesofisrael.com/study-covid-recovery-gave-israelis-longer-lasting-delta-defense-than-vaccines/

BTW there are different dimensions to how “immunity” is measured. I might comment on that another day.
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October 4, 2021 8:00am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Really good comments. Benedict. Thank you.
  I would only have added that as Kiwiblog seems to have a daily Covid thread, perhaps that’s where all the Covid-related comments could go. I suggested this on the weekend, but a moderator deleted my comment with no explanation.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:10am
  - Northshoredoc
    
    Good grief … I agree with Mike, we really are through the looking glass.
    
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    October 4, 2021 8:37am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I guess it is not your blog 🙂 Without wishing to second guess DPF, he may be wary of handing over his blog to a dedicated COVID forum that could attract anti vaxxers and conspiracy theorists. Given his expressed views on the COVID vaccines, he probably does not want that to happen.
    
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    October 4, 2021 8:54am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Surely you’re not one of the people who calls people who don’t want this particular experimental jab ‘anti vaxer’s’? Most have willingly taken other vaccines but don’t see that this jab is given with full information, long term safety data and without coercion.
      
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      October 4, 2021 9:07am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Yes I do. Unless you can show me peer reviewed studies that show that the risk from the vaccines is greater than the risk of the disease. I just don’t get it. Or even greater than the risks from other vaccines.
        
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        October 4, 2021 9:50am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Benedict, we still need age stratified studies on vaccines, the safety and efficacy data on vaccines for young people is notable in its absence.
        
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        October 4, 2021 10:47am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Wrong argument. Mine was against calling people ‘anti-vax’ when they generally approve of vaccination but don’t want this particular jab for their own health.
        
        There are no ong term safety data. It’s for people to decide with their GP what the currently known risks of covid vs Pfizer vaccine mean for them and balance those risks.
        
        People are indeed being coerced – ‘no jab no job’. Vaccine passport threats. People bashed by police in Australia.
        
        And it does nothing to protect other people: what we do know without doubt is that the jabbed can still create, carry and spread covid variants. According to Dr Malone the escape mutants happen due to leaky vaccines.
        
        So creating medical apartheid achieves nothing.
        
        And your term anti-vaxxers does exactly that: create medical apartheid.
        
        I was keenly awaiting a decent vaccine but the one provided is unfortunately not safe for me, and being blamed for escape mutants is totally false.
        
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        October 4, 2021 11:02am
    - Gravelroad
      
      @BY:
      It’s not a matter of “handing over his blog to a dedicated Covid forum”.
      What I have suggested a couple of times is that on kiwiblog, there be a daily dedicated thread on Covid topics.
      Every day for months we have had hundreds of Covid comments on general debate, as well as on other related threads.
      General debate is not “general” anymore.
      There are obviously many, many people here who feel passionately about Covid issues every day. Let them have a dedicated thread and accommodate those of us who have a range other interests comment on GB-that’s all I’m saying.
      (Of course I realise this is entirely up to Mr Farrar’s discretion to run his blog how he wants it.)
      
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      October 4, 2021 9:17am
    - ecco
      
      The kiwiblog is attracting a lot of anti vaccine comment, out of proportion to how many there are in the general population. This is probably because there is little avenue to comment on the anti vaxx view in the MSM so they are congregating on kiwiblog.
      
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      October 4, 2021 9:31am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        Wherever they are congregating, they are ignorant fools.
        
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        October 4, 2021 9:50am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        agree – which is why I doubt DPF is going to set up a dedicated forum for them. It is his blog and he holds totally opposite views.
        
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        October 4, 2021 9:52am
- PhilBest
  
  Plus many, Benedict.
  
  What we need to wake up about, is that natural immunity has been conferred largely through asymptomatic infection or mild illness only.
  
  So if we could wise up about WHY infections are asymptomatic / mild / severe / deadly and inform the public, we could LET the asymptomatic and mild infections just rock through the community.
  
  It should be obvious now that lockdowns don’t work because the same vulnerable old people in institutions and crowded housing and apartments, end up dying anyway because we have NOT been taking the preventative measures for their living environments and the virus gets in there eventually anyway. Meanwhile the asymptomatic spread that would have brought herd immunity if people were just living a normal low-risk life. has been foregone by all the restrictions!
  
  If you look at Sweden and Belarus and US and Brazilian States that only lightly restricted, they are NOT at the top of the death statistics! That honour belongs to uber-hard-lockdown countries like Peru. I say lockdowns arguably make the pandemic worse rather than better. Even Aussie is doing much worse than us in spite of far more draconian policing than us, and I am starting to conclude they are doing worse BECAUSE of the draconian measures, and one of the reason we are doing so well is because the communities of people of color where the outbreaks seem to be most concentrated, are being allowed to do their own thing. If these people are just moving around as normal, getting bursts of fresh air, that is a massive advantage compared to the Aussies who are isolating in terror in a tiny bedroom with all windows and doors closed, and ending up dead.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:11am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “we could LET the asymptomatic and mild infections just rock through the community.”
    
    The problem is that it is difficult to know who will get badly affected and who won’t. If you are under 30 it is very unlikely. If you are over 80 you are at risk. But if you are in your 40s, 50s and 60s, you are throwing the dice, especially if you are overweight etc. That does not mean that you will die, but you will be in for an unpleasant time.
    
    Just an addendum – been reading this morning about the gigantic backlog of untreated people in the UK for serious conditions that have been on hold for the last 18 months. And the increase in severe depression etc.
    
    I really hope that a future government here launches a Royal Commission into the New Zealand COVID response. I think it will almost certainly happen in Australia.
    
    My tip is that for New Zealand there were many fails. A manic fixation on “elimination’ and no path out. No recognition of the immense harm that lockdowns and MIQ caused. Plus a willful ignorance to stay up with the science about how the vaccines work.
    
    You know it would not surprise me if 9 months from now, Jacinda says “the vaccines have stopped working”. Borders shut, and lock down. Whereas we now know, thanks to Israel and the great data from the UK what will happen in New Zealand 9 months from now. We need to start planning.
    
    I am just so frustrated. I have given up telling this scenario to any but a small number of friends and colleagues because they look at me like I am mad and sometimes get angry. They actually think that the vaccines will “end COVID” and once they are vaccinated they will be immune for life. And that is the fault of the Government. Ever since the PM said she would use the vaccines “to stamp out COVID like measles”.
    
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    October 4, 2021 8:52am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Same here. People don’t want the truth. Here are a few things one can send them: data and CDC statements.
      
      CDC Dr Walensky: “waning effectiveness of vaccine against symptomatic and asymptomatic infection in the context of the delta variant.” 5 minutes into video:
      
      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fDMYIHXOElI
      
      UK: vaccinated under 50 more likely to die from covid.
      https://nzdsos.com/2021/09/15/delta-and-pfizer-the-science/
      
      Wales: “Vaccines, while helping protect many of us from serious illness, do not stop us catching Covid.”
      https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-58680204
      
      UK study
      https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.18.21262237v1
      
      Massachusetts group: 74% covid cases fully vaccinated.
      https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm?s_cid=mm7031e2_w
      
      Dr Parks: vaccinated people’s specific antibodies actually HELP new variants infect.
      
      https://www.jennifermargulis.net/do-mrna-and-other-vaccines-against-covid-prevent-transmission-of-the-virus-this-molecular-biologist-says-they-dont/
      
      80% Of The COVID-19 Deaths In August Were Vaccinated.
      
      https://thetruedefender.com/breaking-news-80-of-the-covid-19-deaths-in-august-were-vaccinated-people-confirmed-the-public-health-data/
      
      Vietnamese study in Lancet: Vaccinated carrying delta variant have viral loads 251 times HIGHER than the viral loads of cases with old strains.
      
      https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733
      
      Dr Dan stock
      
      https://www.bitchute.com/video/ax6jnTYvvvqO/
      
      Public health data: vaccinated are 80% of covid deaths.
      
      https://thetruedefender.com/breaking-news-80-of-the-covid-19-deaths-in-august-were-vaccinated-people-confirmed-the-public-health-data/
      
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      October 4, 2021 9:15am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “vaccinated are 80% of covid deaths.”
        
        Folk here keep saying stuff like this. It is called “Simpson’s Paradox” – you are trying to suggest that the vaccine causes you to die from COVID which is absurd.
        
        The numbers of vaccinated dying per 1000 of the populated are a fraction of the same metric for the unvaccinated. AND for countries which had pre vaccine runaway COVID, like the UK, the numbers in hospital now are a fraction of those earlier times.
        
        Think of Simpson’s paradox this way – If 100 percent of the population were vaccinated, 100 percent of people hospitalised and dying would be vaccinated. That is what your are seeing in that data. So please stop telling your mates that the vaccine makes it more likely that you will die of COVID because it is utter rubbish.
        
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        October 4, 2021 12:56pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        “ you are trying to suggest that the vaccine causes you to die from COVID which is absurd.”
        
        No I’m not. But the data show that the vaccines don’t fully prevent covid deaths.
        
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        October 4, 2021 1:20pm
    - NoCash
      
      As I’m turning 50 next year and reasonably fit and healthy (I do a 10k run every weekend and workout regularly on weekdays), the best scenario for me is to get infected during the 6 months of protection after fully vaccinated, then no need for booster shots and just put covid behind for good.
      
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      October 4, 2021 9:31am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        If only we could get hold of early treatment.
        
        There is enough evidence to at least allow Drs to prescribe it, and especially as the vaccinated can be spreading and receiving new variants there still need to be other treatments.
        
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        October 4, 2021 11:10am
    - PhilBest
      
      Benedict: even for people in poor health, there is such a thing as a mild enough infection that even their immune system can handle it.
      
      Consider this. This disease rampages through rest homes where people are getting mega infected by inhaling the virus 24/7. And 70% or more of them don’t die.
      
      I say 100% of them wouldn’t die if they got 30 minutes of exposure rather than 24/7.
      
      I say the same for an obese diabetic 50 year old.
      
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      October 4, 2021 9:59am
      - Batman
        
        This is not how viruses work, Phil.
        
        You can have thirty seconds exposure to a high viral load and get it worse than someone living in the same house as someone with a lighter load.
        
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        October 4, 2021 11:02am
      - PhilBest
        
        Utter rubbish, Batman, contrary to all the evidence. You might think there is anecdotal evidence supporting what you say, but no-one has done the right analysis to see where someone with a severe infection actually got infected. They are assuming still that spread is by contact or large droplets regardless of how fleeting. This is like Inspector Lestrade bumbling around looking for a knife in a gun crime. This official failure is what is responsible for most of the global death toll and the collateral damage.
        
        No-one has actually got a severe infection from exposure to aerosols in shorter duration than several hours. Exposure of around half an hour is necessary to get a mild infection.
        
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        October 4, 2021 6:05pm
  - Jaundiced
    
    I’d suggest, let it rock. There has been plenty of opportunity for those who want to get vaccinated to do so, which leaves those who haven’t, being those who have chosen not to.
    
    Let it rip. The pro and anti vax arguments don’t matter. We can see if those dying from the side effects of the vaccine outnumber those dying of COVID. Either way, its a choice.
    
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    October 4, 2021 10:31am
    - info@cruzpro.com
      
      Not sure if I agree with you but one thing is sure… It would be nice to get this over with one way or the other. This waiting and lock downs is wearing very thin.
      
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      October 4, 2021 12:05pm
    - Northshoredoc
      
      “There has been plenty of opportunity for those who want to get vaccinated to do so, ”
      
      Incorrect, notwithstanding the initial slow rollout in NZ, vaccination was only opened up for under 55s from 1st September, obviously this entire cohort could not have been vaccinated on Day 1 so let’s say for arguments sake all have the opportunity to get vaccinated by 1 October plus 7 weeks.
      
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      October 4, 2021 1:13pm
- kowtow
  
  The regime does not have a plan, never did , it has a series of reactions .
  
  Most of which are driven by fear and emotion and behind the scenes will be clever , manipulative agents of social change making the most of it.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:21am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    I’d say it does have a plan. Fear, manipulation, division. Full government control over our lives. Fascism under the guise of a ‘caring leadership’.
    
    But nz sheeple will follow Jacinda over any edge.
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:18am
    - Bob
      
      nz sheeple will follow Jacinda over any edge……
      From my rural observation, sheep will balk at a precipice edge, LEAMINGS DONT. NZ sheeple are more like mindless LEAMINGS>
      
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      October 4, 2021 11:27am
      - Romney
        
        A smother might fit the description better. They just keep piling in. Pretty frightening.
        
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        October 4, 2021 12:24pm
      - pdm
        
        Bob – help me please.
        
        Are Leamings the same as Lemmings?
        
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        October 4, 2021 1:10pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Agree. They do have a plan and Covid-19-D is but a tool at their disposal to achieve the outcome of their plan.
      
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      October 4, 2021 12:44pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    kowtow, ever since the first plan that Jax, her “strategists” and spinmeisters knocked together during the evening of 20th March 2020 and presented to us in that infamous broadcast, it has been evident that only plan has been spin and more spin. It is as much a perfect example as Frank the tank’s piece below about “On Bullshit” as you will ever get.
    
    Over the course of the past 18 months, how many times has Jax dangled promises of freedom, while tweaking or adjusting the different levels of her lockdown “strategy”? For reference to those who don’t know the meaning of the word strategy………Jax & friends don’t appear to know the meaning of the word, so we are to quote David Byrne on the road to nowhere!
    
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    October 4, 2021 10:35am
    - hullkiwi
      
      This post has a correction, I referenced the post “On Bullshit” to Frank the tank, it was actually a post by Krazykiwi. My apologies.
      
      [Deleted – point noted. Mod.]
      
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      October 4, 2021 10:45am
- Yvette
  
  Benedict Yu
  The draw back of acquiring natural antibodies through actual covid infection – apparently more protective antibodies than a vaccine – seems, especially for compromised elderly, the need to in fact survive the initial bout of covid.
  
  So your quote – The study showed that people who had been vaccinated and were subsequently infected had even stronger levels of immunity than people who had been ~~only~~ infected only. – should still make it imperative that those elderly who can tolerate the vaccine, should take it to provide a less severe covid infection, from which they may then gain the higher load of antibodies. Is that not a no-brainer?
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:22am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “seems, especially for compromised elderly, the need to in fact survive the initial bout of covid.”
    
    You seem to misunderstand me. Of course it is essential that the elderly get vaccinated. If you have read my comments before you will be aware that I am in favour of everyone being vaccinated.
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:23am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Universal vaccination increases number of escape mutants. Have you actually watched Dr Malone’s lecture on this risk? At 50mins:
      
      https://rumble.com/vl0zpf-dr.-robert-malone-the-liberty-forum-8-10-2021.html
      
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      October 4, 2021 11:14am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Dr Malone would agree,
    He’s pro covid vaccination for elderly, possibly needing 6 monthly booster. But he agrees with Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche: universal vaccination is training escape mutants to overcome adaptive immune responses focused on the spike.
    
    See at 50mins.
    https://rumble.com/vl0zpf-dr.-robert-malone-the-liberty-forum-8-10-2021.html
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:25am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  I still want the option to choose if I am vaccinated.
  
  I will not be coerced or vilified by my employer.
  
  I would rather choose not to work.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:29am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    And calling us anti-vax for deciding that this particular jab is too high risk for us is creating medical apartheid.
    
    Probably, like me, you have nothing against vaccines in general?
    
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    October 4, 2021 11:17am
- All_on_Red
  
  I doubt the MoH have even read that study. Or heard of it.
  Ardern lives in a bubble of her ‘own truths’ and I’m pretty sure contrary messages to that truth get filtered out.
  If your experts have been trained to provide one view then that’s the only view you will get.
  You see this in ‘climate science’. Politicians get fed selected and filtered information and captured by it.
  Wayne Mapp is an example of this.
  One of the great things about KB is seeing info like Benedict and others post.
  We are branded as being Contrarian.
  Maybe we are, but we are certainly better informed than most.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:48am
  - RockyJ
    
    I agree. The path we are on reflects Jacinda’s perfectionist mentality. This includes adherence to impossible goals (elimination), rigidity of thinking and believing there are simple answers to complex problems.
    I believe there are a mix of options which should have been well implemented by now along the lines of what John Key outlined. These would have come together as a Covid management approach rather than an elimination approach.
    Instead we have a single focus on one course of action to achieve an impossible goal.
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:22am
    - Taieri
      
      The path we are on reflects Jacinda’s perfectionist mentality.
      —————-
      
      Perfectionists usually achieve what they set out to achieve. Chasing the rainbow end is not perfectionism, it’s got quite a different name…
      
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      October 4, 2021 10:11am
    - JeffW
      
      Rigidity of thinking?
      Absence of thinking more like it.
      Or at least absence of thinking about anything apart from social and racist engineering.
      
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      October 4, 2021 10:50am
  - doggone7
    
    For all that being “better informed than most” you rubbish experts. They are trained to provide one view? And if they do, how do they get to that view?
    
    And Ardern living in a bubble of her ‘own truths?’ Don’t we all live in a bubble of our own truths? The bubble is framed by what information we seek, are given or incidentally bump into.
    You seem to suggest Ardern is less or worse informed than you. And us on KB.
    
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    October 4, 2021 11:08am
    - Taieri
      
      You seem to suggest Ardern is less or worse informed than you.
      ——————-
      
      It depends. On who informs her, on the quality of information provided, and on how much she can understand and retain.
      
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      October 4, 2021 12:31pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  Has everyone participating in this discussion watched this Dr Robert Malone lecture? We all need to see the enormous risk Dr. Malone considers in overusing the vaccines on low risk demographics. The risk is this: a leaky vaccine produces variants. So the more people taking the vaccine, the more variants will be spreading about. He also goes into ADEs.
  
  He was the first to invent mRNA vaccines and is pro vaccination for vulnerable people, but admits that they would possibly need ongoing 6 monthly boosters.
  
  But he strongly presses for natural herd immunity for the rest of the population.
  
  https://rumble.com/vl0zpf-dr.-robert-malone-the-liberty-forum-8-10-2021.html
  
  50 min: Universal vaccination trains the virus to escape covid vaccines – evolving the virus. “The selective pressure for the mutant strains is coming from the vaccinated. So all the storyline that the unvaccinated are responsible is bunk.”
  
  “It’s the vaccinated that are driving the escape mutants and all of our immune systems are being trained to a single antigen.”
  
  51: agrees with Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche: universal vaccination evolves escape mutants to overcome any of these adaptive immune responses focused on the spike.
  
  52: vaccinate highly susceptible people but they will possibly need vaccination every 6 months. But NOT the rest of the population.
  
  53: let virus drift and support people w early treatment.
  
  55: delta more infectious, but Malone argues that it is not more lethal.
  
  58: WHO changed herd immunity definition overnight from natural infection to vaccines.
  
  1.04: better policies: based on personal risk assessment, early treatments.
  
  1.23 Malone took moderna vaccine for travel (convinced himself that his ADE risk was sufficiently low). But developed bad side effects only cured through ivermectin.
  
  1.26 fertility: Pfizer admits lipid accumulation in ovaries but unknown whether fertility affected. Menses alterations.
  
  1.29 FDA applied vaccine checklist, not gene therapy checklist for approvals. This reproductive outcomes were not even checked!
  
  1.31: Novovax safety profile bad. Adjuvant too inflammatory.
  
  1.33 examples of trial manipulation.
  
  If you’d like to understand more about ‘the noble lie’, Kurt Schwab and how his young leaders programme trained our PM, it’s all mentioned about 35mins:
  
  the noble lie: ‘any doubts, whether or not well founded, about the safety of the vaccine, cannot be allowed to exist.’
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:50am
- EssenX
  
  One of the things I’ve seen Benedict from you is a willingness to be open minded and change your mind. I think this is a problem in our world now and especially in our current political class. Many tend to double down, perhaps due to sunk cost fallacies and ego, and this includes pro-vaccines and anti-vaccines, and the country is poorer for it.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:53am
- Simon
  
  “And people are getting sick and dying of COVID every day, albeit at rates a fraction of those that the UK saw in pre vaccine times.”
  
  ???
  
  UK. 300 covid deaths in August 2020 & 3,000 covid deaths in August 2021. I think that Sept 21 deaths running at 10x the Sept 20 deaths as well.
  
  Ro is seasonal so see what happens during UK winter 2021/22. Hopefully even with high death count amongst the Ro vaxxed elderly the UK gubermint just gets on with it.
  
  If ro vaxxed are dying and MSM dont report it. In Clown World the ro vaxxed then aint dying.
  
  If you are old with other issues even if you have the ro vaxx you should isolate during NZ winter 2022. Mark my words comrades!
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:09am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Incredibly selective nonsense
    
    1. England was in lockdown in August 2020
    2. Look at the curve for Sept 2020 compared to Sept 2021 – last year it was taking off this year’s is pretty flat
    3. England deaths in Jan 2021 were c.1500 a day that’s 45,000 in a month – 15x today’s rate
    
    BTW it’s England not the UK
    
    https://www.google.com/search?q=england covid&oq=england covid&aqs=chrome.0.35i39j0i433i512j0i512l3j0i457i512j0i512l4.3252j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
    
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    October 4, 2021 11:58am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    As ever a call for CONTEXT
    
    Based on provisional data, there were 40,467 deaths registered in England in July 2021. This was 2,288 more deaths than in July 2020 and 2,864 deaths more than the five-year average (2015 to 2019) (7.6% higher).
    
    So July this year, in England, mortality was far less than 10% above the norm – in the middle of a pandemic
    
    That 7.6% equates to 73 excess Covid deaths a day – a day that sees 1,350 deaths each and every day
    
    Also, as ever, Big Number Scare Little Kiwi
    
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/monthlymortalityanalysisenglandandwales/july2021
    
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    October 4, 2021 12:04pm
  - WaveyDavey
    
    BTW the UK death rate in 2015 was 9.3 so about 1,780 people a day were dying – about 33% higher than it’s currently seeing and about the same number as peak deaths in Jan 2021
    
    TL:DR England saw more deaths in 2015 than it will see in 2021
    
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/281478/death-rate-united-kingdom-uk/
    
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    October 4, 2021 12:11pm
- exkiwi
  
  I don’t think that this was your point, Benedict, but your argument that “Jacinda can only STOP COVID from restrictions and border closures” could be taken to support the elimination strategy in perpetuity…
  
  I am not a scientist, but basically I understand that the point with the vaccines is that they do not provide sterilizing immunity, meaning that they do not prevent you getting infected (although they do seem to reduce infection risk as well as transmissibility in the short term). However, the vaccines are preventives that reduce your risk of severe covid, hospitalization and death. Moreover, while the antibody response they elicit reduces over time, they also establish T-cell and memory B cell immunity in most people that continues after antibodies wane. This is what is likely to provide long-lasting immunity to SEVERE Covid, but NOT to infection. These other components of the immune system are triggered after an infection but take some time to come online, meaning a symptomatic (but usually mild) infection.
  
  Assuming that Covid never goes away but circulates throughout the human population indefinitely, I understand that 1) we are all likely to be exposed to the virus in the next few years anywhere on the planet; 2) most of us will be infected/reinfected; 3) first infections will be milder for the most part in the vaccinated; 4) reinfections will be milder in both vaxxed and previously infected unvaxxed; 5) this will continue in perpetuity, as we get reinfected every few years, reestablishing/reboosting our immunity. Moreover, even while assuming that SCV remains as virulent as it is now, the disease burden will eventually reduce as our immunity increases through (re)exposure.
  
  There are also therapeutics to add to the mix which are more reasons to be optimistic.
  
  The idea of making Covid go away with vaccines is indeed a complete fantasy with the current generation of vaccines. I have seen Hendy acknowledge this, so it’s not a secret, but I have no idea why Jacinda does not acknowledge it. But I think that like many Covid leftists, she is still in the elimination headspace and doesn’t want to confront the fact that it won’t work and isn’t sustainable, particularly with Delta. It’s all about CONTROL and DENIAL.
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:41am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    “ reinfections will be milder in both vaxxed and previously infected unvaxxed”
    
    Depends on which escape mutants the vaccinated develop. Please watch Dr Malone at 50mins:
    https://rumble.com/vl0zpf-dr.-robert-malone-the-liberty-forum-8-10-2021.html
    
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    October 4, 2021 11:23am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Some random thought on Covid and other matters.
  
  We are constantly told that Maori revere their elders. If that the case why do they have the lowest vaccination rates. Why arent they getting the jab to protect their old people.
  Will the usual excuses be trotted out.
  1. Its because of 200 years of colonial oppression.
  2. Maori dont understand Whiteys communications.
  
  Politicians and Celebrities. Saving the planet one airplane ride at a time.
  
  We need a name like “Karen” for the 20 to 55 yo wimmin who think the sun shines out of Cindys arse. It needs to describe people who are as shallow a sa supermarket carprk puddle and easily taken in by phone scammers.
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:46am
- Akarak
  
  A recent study has shown that antibody levels generated by two shots of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine can undergo up to a 10-fold decrease seven months following the second vaccination.
  The drop in antibody levels will compromise the body’s ability to defend itself against COVID-19 if the individual becomes infected.
  So if Ardernski is following the science when can we expect to see the start of the booster shot campaign?
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:50am
  - sooty
    
    If she doesn’t show a start for the booster shot, ken and karen are going to be pissed and turn on her!
    
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    October 4, 2021 3:57pm
mikenmildagain

Happy World Animal Day!

What animal will you eat to celebrate? 4 October is the feast day for Francis of Assisi, an admirable man in many ways, famed for preaching to the birds, etc. He was not, of course, a vegetarian.

So today is an international day of action for animal rights and welfare. Be kind to animals you encounter and only kill and eat them if you really need to. I’m pretty sure St Francis would have considered both animal cruelty and food waste to be sinful.
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October 4, 2021 8:00am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Great start today Mike, but a fall at the first jump does not bode well . . .
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:59am
- Simon
  
  “What animal will you eat to celebrate?”
  
  Salmon.
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:10am
  - JibberJabber
    
    It was………..the Salmon Mousse!…?
    More deadly than a side of Covid.
    
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    October 4, 2021 11:15am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      “You didn’t use tinnedsalmon, did you?”
      
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      October 4, 2021 2:12pm
- Manu-Rau
  
  Are gangs covered by World Animal Day?
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:18am
  - Ehlana
    
    Are they edible?
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:45am
- Ed Snack
  
  Waste is indeed sinful, my great grandmother had a saying she trotted out at the dinner table if one was hesitant “wicked waste brings woeful want”.
  
  Not sure how effective it was though at getting youngsters to eat their broccoli…
  
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  October 4, 2021 11:00am
Warren

The double standards of our Government and Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.
What’s the difference between Jacinda Ardern, Brian Tamaki and COVID-19 with lockdowns ,
they both broke the law and one will face a conviction while the other will not and has not plus you will never know if a penalty was ever suggested.
Right I don’t agree with don’t agree with Saturdays protest but what’s good for the goose should the same for the gander, Labour and Jacinda Ardern our Prime Minister allowed Party activists to deliver pamphlets while the Country was in lockdown not once ,not twice but three times and the penalty has never hit the headlines because there was none and Jacinda Ardern Carrie’s on her crusade to convict others that break this law.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/126567695/covid19-ardern-calls-antilockdown-protest-a-slap-in-the-face
It doesn’t mater to me if Brian Tamaki does face the full force of the law, but you can’t have laws for one and a different law for others. So before you say I am being hard on our PM just think one of the times pamphlets were delivered was in her own electorate.
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October 4, 2021 8:00am
- peterwn
  
  But there were two different sets of laws for the animals in ‘Animal Farm’.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:24am
- kowtow
  
  The great and the good are at pains today to pillory the low hanging fruit that is B Tamaki .
  
  While ignoring or excusing the real culprits in this play , the gangs and their drug networks. Not to mention their own Covid restriction busting gatherings which they do regularly with impunity and with relatively little comment or scrutiny from our usual suspects .
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:26am
  - ex-golfer
    
    To give such things scrutiny would be WAAAASIST!
    
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    October 4, 2021 10:38am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  You forgot to mention the pink haired one.
  
  That’s my excuse if I get pulled up, precedent has been set.
  
  And I would have been at the protest only I was working.
  
  The tide is turning if the Police take a heavy hand we will have riots in the street, see Melbourne and Sydney.
  
  So wake up jacinda you govern by consent of the people. The lockdowns will end when the people say enough and people are saying enough.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:43am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Peer-reviewed studies in Victoria show, that the Police can bash the covid outta ya.
    It’s a recommended treatment soon to be approved worldwide, especially for those that are waiting for the results to come in about the experimental kool-aid injection.
    
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    October 4, 2021 11:21am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Gang funeral?
  
  How many arrested?
  
  BLM?
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:01am
- Nickc2
  
  Today, I heard there is a petition circulating for Brian Tamaki to be charged for his protest gathering in the weekend. I’m no fan of Tamaki but the day we determine who the Police charge by signing a petition, we have well and truly lost any semblance of democracy and Police independence.
  Allegedly, Cindy stated on TV1 this morning that Tamaki’s act was criminal. I trust the Police will ignore this impetuous child’s utterances.
  
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  October 4, 2021 1:15pm
Captain Mainwaring

We saw Princess Pinocchio on TV yesterday saying how upset she was about Brian Tamaki’s mass rally and how it was illegal.
So when is someone going to inform us that Tamaki has been arrested on charges of inciting dissent and endangering public safety?
Oh I forgot, most of Tamaki’s mob of devotees must be Labour voters.
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October 4, 2021 8:00am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Um, didn’t he try setting up his own pathetic political party?
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:03am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Yes he did.
    And he probably succeeded in his goals for that.
    Those goals being publicity for himself and an opportunity for grifting some fund raising
    //
    
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    October 4, 2021 8:52am
  - Simon
    
    “endangering public safety?”
    
    Dont shit yourself. Its very hard to catch the ro outside. Its well under 1% or something.
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:14am
- Inandout
  
  CM, I won’t say most of his flock are Labour voters but I think the last thing Jacinda wants is someone in the dock who can stir the can. A Court hearing would give Tamaki a wonderful venue for his ‘message’.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:10am
- Warren
  
  The Police Union said this morning on radio the are in the process of charging him.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:11am
  - kevn
    
    @Warren… Having given Tamaki the nod? Odd
    
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    October 4, 2021 8:47am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    The Police Association doesn’t make the decisions about prosecution.
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:18am
  - Ehlana
    
    And did the Police Union have an opinion on charging the gang members?
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:43am
    - pdm
      
      Hell no – Poto decrees no charges for Gangs – they have immunity.
      
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      October 4, 2021 9:54am
      - big bruv
        
        Gangs are Whanau.
        
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        October 4, 2021 1:18pm
  - Nickc2
    
    AFIK, the Police Union’s job is representing their members in employment issues, not determining who to charge/not charge.
    Then again, maybe Poto Williams (Minister of Police) has granted the Union additional privileges?
    
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    October 4, 2021 1:24pm
- Tricati
  
  With no action taken over the Black Lives Matter protest last year during lock-down, a precedent had been set. That protest should have been closed down hard to send a clear message, but given our age of virtue signalling, nothing was done so its OK.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:13am
  - kowtow
    
    Wot about the Cops actually help run illegal Northland roadblocks during the first lockdown ?
    
    Very very little commentary in the Media Pardy around that and subsequent law breaking roadblocks , and one of the few who did draw attention to it , Plunkett , painted a target on his back for it.
    
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    October 4, 2021 8:29am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    What did dear leader jacinda have to say about the black lives matter protest March?
    
    I thought they organised it.
    
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    October 4, 2021 8:47am
  - crikey
    
    Yes, the Police have set double standards, condoned or endorsed by the Government turning a blind eye. The problem with that is the Police gets to choose which standard to apply at a particular occasion.
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:35am
- Frank the tank
  
  Despite the media portraying him as an utter moron Tamaki ain’t dumb. Prior to the protest he had detailed discussions with the Police. They would have ‘agreed’ to a set of protocols that Tamaki would have followed. As such the ability for Police to enforce any arrests will be difficult if not impossible.
  
  Bishop Brian 1
  Jacinda & Ashley Canute 0
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:14am
  - EssenX
    
    Agreed. I don’t like Tamaki, but he’s not dumb. Arrests or charges, even after all the pre-protest negotiation, would have been in his mind already and may play into his hands. The optics of that for the Police and Government, after taking an “education” approach to rogue political volunteers and gang members, would not be good.
    
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    October 4, 2021 8:55am
  - John Pakes
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Yes, there were protocols, as reported in detail by the news media. And Brian broke them.
    His mob did not keep to the social distancing agreement, and his mob did not keep away from the cenotaph as they had agreed to.
    He broke the rules, he should be prosecuted.
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:15am
    - Manu-Rau
      
      That assumes the media reports are correct.
      
      Which is less likely than dying of COVID Delta: about 1 in 5 million.
      
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      October 4, 2021 9:22am
    - Frank the tank
      
      I feel for you John.
      
      This week you will be confronted by the fact that the person you thought was a emphatic, intelligent leader of people is nothing more than a petulant, narcissistic women-child with limited or no understanding how to manage a real crisis.
      
      Then I started laughing and won’t stop till it hurts….badly.
      
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      October 4, 2021 10:25am
    - Ed Snack
      
      So the pink haired one as well then John ?
      
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      October 4, 2021 11:03am
- Southern Raider
  
  That is why the only stats that really matter are vaccination rates and hospitalisation/death rates
  
  Case rates are interesting from showing rate of infection within the community but that’s all
  
  Vaccination rates relate to how likely it is most of the population will only get minor symptoms and reduction in transmission
  
  Hospitilisation/death rate is really the only stat we should be focused on and especially measuring those around who wasn’t vaccinated and who had high morbidity chance anyway
  
  The rest of us can then get on with living
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:15am
  - Ruawai
    
    Agreed, the Government should stop testing and just concentrate their resources and staff on vaccination and hospitalising sick patients.
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:47am
- Scott
  
  Interesting to me that at church yesterday morning people were very scathing about Brian Tamaki. Most people, including it seems most Christians, think that we should just obey whatever Jacinda says and she will get us through this. That Brian is being an idiot and endangering the team of 5 million.
  
  It just shows us how effective the propaganda is. Most people still have not twigged onto the fact that we cannot eliminate covid. Like every other country in the world we are going to have to learn to live with it.
  
  As for myself I support Brian Tamaki and the rest of the people who protested the Auckland lockdowns. For far too long we have been a nation of sheep being cooped up in the pen. I think it’s time to reclaim our freedom again. I support the protests. I think they are quite justified.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:19am
  - Southern Raider
    
    The real concern is those people (and there is a lot of them unfortunately) who are completely unhinged when it comes to assessing the real risk of COVID
    
    Just read the comments on Stuff associated to articles about opening up borders for business so we can have an economy and pay back some of this massive debt
    
    A classic was “I’m glad I don’t have grandchildren as the rich are just focused on money and don’t care if young people die”. That comment isn’t isolated and shows how state dependent NZ now is as none of these people seem to realise how they get paid, where the pension comes from.
    
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    October 4, 2021 8:49am
    - Ehlana
      
      Unfortunately, we don’t a government that understands the link between work, income, tax and benefits to explain it.
      
      Or one that cares if young people die. Remember the car load of teens who dies recently on the roads? Name one thing has this government done in response to that?
      
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      October 4, 2021 9:49am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    I have been saying right from the beginning that elimination is nonsense and we are going to have to live with covid like we do everything else that can kill us.
    
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    October 4, 2021 8:51am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    Church is probably not the best place to look for people who are good at resisting propaganda.
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:17am
    - David Garrett
      
      Nigel: Thus for you only have two upticks…but for me, that is the comment of the day. Well done.
      
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      October 4, 2021 9:43am
    - krazykiwi
      
      I’d also avoid habitual readers of The Herald and Stuff. 24×7 propaganda therein.
      
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      October 4, 2021 9:48am
    - Scott
      
      Church is where you hear God’s word. Church is where you worship God. Worshipping God is the reason for our life.
      Westminster catechism – what is the purpose of life? To worship God and to enjoy him forever.
      
      Those of you not in church are missing out on the purpose of your life.
      
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      October 4, 2021 11:29am
      - Nickc2
        
        I’ve been labouring under a misapprehension then. I was of the understanding that we were on earth to go forth and multiply.
        
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        October 4, 2021 1:45pm
  - John Pakes
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Further evidence that this blog, despite the opinions of it’s author, David Farrar, has degenerated into a leading anti vax site. It has been suggested again, in todays thread, that the Covid discussion should be shunted off to another page, and leave this page to the rest of the world who want to get on with life. Maybe David could think about this.
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:19am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      Not sure where you get that from John. I think the blog has a bit of both sides, and that is a good thing rather than a bad thing. Everyone is entitled to their own view, and since it’s their body and health, can choose one or other solution. You trying to frame the page as anti-vax is just being disingenuous.
      
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      October 4, 2021 9:43am
      - Ed Snack
        
        [deleted for a personal attack without any other contribution – Mod]
        
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        October 4, 2021 11:05am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Pakes is a Troll
        He is only interested in smearing this Blog and its occupants credibility.
        
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        October 4, 2021 11:33am
    - pdm
      
      Not so JP – mrs pdm and I had our 2nd vaccination on 19 July after it was deferred from 29 June because Chippy forgot to order enough vaccine.
      
      Pro Vaccine on the advice ofour GP.
      
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      October 4, 2021 9:59am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      No-one on here is anti-vaxx,, some folks have expressed their opinion about forced, rushed vaccinations, and lack of choice in NZ with available vaccines against the Covid virus.
      
      But it is a technique used by some trolls on this blog to label Kiwiblog in some perjorative term: that it is full of racists, homophobes, Trumpists, alt-righters, climate-deniers, etc.
      
      Of course, if the trolls cared to read KB comments carefully and on a daily basis, then they might learn how very wrong they are.
      
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      October 4, 2021 11:29am
      - Scott
        
        Apart from me Maggy.
        In order that you listed them I –
        – am utterly opposed to biculturalism and its soon to be revealed offspring, Maori ascendancy
        – think homosexuality is still a sin
        – write this down – Donald Trump is awesome and no way did Joe Biden get 81 million votes
        – definitely think that the right is better. Here on the right we focus on freedom. On the left they focus on equality and particularly equality of outcome, which is unachievable.
        – Happily confess that I think climate change is a scam and a plot to bring up Third World countries and bring down Western civilisation.
        
        The problem is that many people think there is only one point of view that is acceptable – their own. We need to learn to debate ideas again. Rather than resorting to labels and name-calling.
        
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        October 4, 2021 11:34am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Fair enough, Scott.
        
        It is not difficult to associate a commenter with his/her comments.
        
        In no way do you speak for me, just as I don’t speak for any other poster on KB.
        
        But somehow, some folks like to take the lazy route and imagine that we are all clones of some far-right, rich capitalist intent on installing a God-fearing patriarchy in Aotearoa.
        
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        October 4, 2021 2:29pm
    - Frank the tank
      
      I know this is a difficult time for you John – this week the elimination sandcastle gets washed away and the sheeple learn instead of being led by a modern day Joan-of-Ark we are being bossed around by a petulant, narcissistic woman-child.
      
      Do you prefer you shit sandwich room temperature or warmed up?
      
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      October 4, 2021 11:33am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Most people outsource all their thinking. Their critical decision being who they choose to put their faith in, which is sadly most normally based on feelz
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:19am
- MCos
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I don’t know what authoritarian country you’re from, but in NZ the government can’t direct the police who to arrest.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:20am
  - septic skeptic
    
    ??????? ROFL nice one!
    
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    October 4, 2021 8:33am
    - Simon
      
      “I don’t know what authoritarian country you’re from, but in NZ the government can’t direct the police who to arrest”
      
      Jesus they walk among us.
      
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      October 4, 2021 9:18am
      - Nickc2
        
        Not yet. //
        
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        October 4, 2021 1:50pm
  - kowtow
    
    I suppose you believe in the myth that Chief Plod is actually appointed by the GG or indeed that HM actually appoints the GG.
    
    We do live in a soft authoritarian state. That’s hardened considerably recently.
    
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    October 4, 2021 8:57am
    - Ruawai
      
      Police are soft on gangs under this Labour govt. Even the media and commentators are now calling gangs ‘marginalised people’ and note the barbaric slaying by the gang members of a member of the public in Otorohanga didn’t even make TV1 news last night, seems they are told to hide negative stories about gangs.
      
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      October 4, 2021 9:51am
  - gravedodger
    
    MCos you are being dangerously naive, Coster the Imposter is the most politicised Police commissioner since Clark engineered the ending of Doone’s career, been downhill ever since.
    
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    October 4, 2021 8:58am
  - RoboRob
    
    Would normally agree but it is clear that labour have in fact been telling them who not to arrest. There can be no other reason as to why the continual gang breaches have gone un punished.
    
    Surely the police would be hanging out to arrest these guys on anything they could right?
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:01am
    - kowtow
      
      The clause for their funding states “active protection” for treaty issues .
      
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      October 4, 2021 12:03pm
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    The bottom line is that when it comes to uniforms with guns and the general population with pitchforks, you can never have enough uniforms.
    
    The current state of Police in New Zealand, no chance, to many little boys and girls playing at being Police officers.
    
    Remember the springbox tour protests, individual police officers were badly hurt and the persecution for their actions went on for a long time after.
    
    Do we really want a police state. Do we really want the war on truth that we are having, “the only truth is the truth we tell you”
    
    I don’t think so, but the fascists can’t take and keep control without it.
    
    I say let’s not do it.
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:09am
  - Inandout
    
    MCos, in the real world Jacinda has a chat with that Coster chap along the lines of X has been a thorn in our side and is disrupting our plans. See what you can do about it Kevin…. or whatever his first name is. Coster then sets the chain of command into action with in all probability a rider that ‘Maori mustn’t be agitated at all costs’.
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:23am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Pull the other one. Decisions on who to arrest are clearly political in a huge number of cases (eg not arresting the ‘right sort’ of activists with whom the govt wants to be seen to have sympathy when they break the laws)
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:23am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yet
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:32am
  - crikey
    
    MCos: “I don’t know what authoritarian country you’re from, but in NZ the government can’t direct the police who to arrest.”
    
    But they can, surely, ensure that the enacted laws (and ensuing regulations, where applicable) are enforced.
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:40am
  - MCos
    
    “The chief executive of Police is known as the Commissioner and is appointed by the Governor General. Andrew Coster is the current Commissioner of New Zealand Police. The Commissioner of Police is accountable to the Minister of Police for the administration of police services, but acts independently in carrying out law enforcement decisions.”
    https://www.police.govt.nz/about-us/structure/commissioner-and-executive
    Maurice Williamson was forced to resign after it was revealed by the NZHerald he interfered with a police investigation.
    So here’s your chance if you want to see the back of the PM. Take your evidence to the papers.
    Make a name for yourself.
    
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    October 4, 2021 10:05am
  - Ed Snack
    
    But they sure as hell can tell the police who NOT to arrest.
    
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    October 4, 2021 11:08am
    - MCos
      
      You reckon
      
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      October 4, 2021 12:10pm
Yvette

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said none of the three new cases outside Auckland were vaccinated.

A few days ago, someone said a non-vaccinated person is like a World War II London resident who is wilfully or ignorantly blind enough to not hear the air-raid sirens, and doesn’t put out their lights or draw their curtains at night, so Nazi bombers were apt to put out their lights for them and it would be curtains for such people, and likely extensive collateral damage for their next-door neighbours?

So how do you appeal to such people?

Aussies offered shot at $1m prize for taking Covid vaccine shot
Funded by philanthropists and corporations, the campaign aims to boost national vaccination rates above 80 per cent, a key reopening target under the national plan.
But Craig Winkler of the Million Dollar Vax Alliance says it is not designed to convince vaccine hesitant Australians to get the jab.
“The promotion simply seeks to reward people who decide to be vaccinated now rather than waiting,” he said in a statement on Sunday. [1]

Why not do that here?

Run it in the television 8pm Lotto slot.
Half a million – $500,000 – per night, from those fully vaccinated the day before, and another half million – another $500,000 – to one person selected at random from all those vaccinated before ‘yesterday’.
Have stand-by stringer camerapersons to enable a live cross an hour later to show prize winners if they are willing.

It would be one hell of a lot cheaper – one thousandth of running up a billion dollar loss a week in Auckland lockdowns.

[1] https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/world/aussies-offered-shot-1m-prize-taking-covid-vaccine
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October 4, 2021 8:02am
- peterwn
  
  Lotto could take the lead here. Reduce Wednesdays jackpot from $23M to $21M and allocate $1M for a vax draw prize and the other $1M for vax draw minor prizes. Effect on regular ticket sales would be minimal.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:32am
- kowtow
  
  Ah the safety the black out brought.
  
  “The wartime blackout, when regulations required streetlights to be turned off and traffic signals and headlights to be dimmed, led to a dramatic increase in road casualties. The King’s surgeon, writing in the British Medical Journal in 1939, complained that by “frightening the nation into blackout regulations, the Luftwaffe was able to kill 600 British citizens a month without ever taking to the air”. The number of deaths peaked in 1940 at 9,169. One person died that year for every 200 vehicles on the road; today the figure is one for every 20,000.”
  
  https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/research/olympic-britain/transport/look-out-in-the-blackout/
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:45am
- kevn
  
  @Yvette… Just offer Novavax or Valneva. That would pull another 10% on board. There are plenty of folk waiting for that option.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:50am
  - sooty
    
    Or Ivermetcin!
    
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    October 4, 2021 4:21pm
- Mr_Blobby
  
  So only the unvaccinated can and catch covid? Let’s demonize the unclean unvaccinated.
  
  So why are vaccinated people walking around with face nappies on.
  
  What was the point of vaccination, so we did not have to live in fear and skulk around wearing face nappies.
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:16am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Oh Dear,
    Has our Dear PM just identified the Under 12s as the virus spreaders?
    
    Nasty, nasty, nasty.
    
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    October 4, 2021 11:36am
- Yvette
  
  OK – so a Vaccination Lotto is a real bummer of an idea. 11 downticks.
  What fucking idiot suggested it?
  Surely Jacinda, in hosting such a television spectacular (who else could) would be the ultimate hypocrite to do such a Promotion without confirming a Target Percentage.
  
  And that guy Paul Hunt, at New Zealand Human Rights Commission would likely have a hernia.
  
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  October 4, 2021 10:06am
Maggy Wassilieff

What is happening to Central Wellington?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/126566525/you-cant-trespass-people-from-the-central-city-the-wellington-street-at-an-impasse-after-more-disorderly-behaviour
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October 4, 2021 8:07am
- Frank the tank
  
  Turning into a liberal shithole ala San Fran & Portland.
  
  TBH Auckland’s CBD ain’t far behind.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:11am
  - crikey
    
    Once a place to enjoy, now one to avoid.
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:55am
- PhilBest
  
  It’s a distressing sight! Someone should devote a blog to posting pictures of it, the MSM isn’t exactly blowing the cover on it.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:13am
- Inandout
  
  Maggy, we could well ask, ‘what is happening to NZ?
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:14am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  This list of the six safest places to live in Aotearoa suggests little to worry about:
  1. Hamilton
  The small city of Hamilton, with approximately 130,000 residents, is the safest location in New Zealand – depending on how you look at it. Hamilton is considered the most geologically sound city. It’s far enough away from the coast to avoid the threat of tsunamis. Additionally, it’s far away from any known fault lines. Plus, it’s a far distance from Auckland’s volcanic field and not likely to be in the path of volcanic ash.
  2. Christchurch
  As the largest city on the South Island, Christchurch is hugely popular with expats. This beautiful city has low unemployment rates and strong infrastructure. The city itself is growing and new sub developments are being built. However, Christchurch has a history of earthquakes. In 2010 and 2011, much of the historic city center was damaged by quakes.
  3. Queenstown
  Pretty, modern Queenstown is frequently listed as one of New Zealand’s best cities for families. The city has low crime rates, excellent schools, and good recreation facilities.
  4. Auckland
  As New Zealand’s largest city, Auckland is a fun, family-friendly destination. It’s consistently ranked as one of the world’s safest cities, with an outstanding quality of life and the lively downtown boasts two harbors. However, in addition to the threat of earthquakes, Auckland has another serious safety concern. It’s situated on a field of 50 active volcanoes. Two kinds of volcanos (maar craters and scoria cones) lie beneath the city. The last major eruption took place an estimated 600 years ago, so they’re not exactly a constant threat.
  5. Wellington
  Wellington is New Zealand’s capital city and a great choice for expats. It’s home to beaches, breweries, a thriving waterfront, and strong cultural institutions. Wellington also offers low unemployment, excellent schools, great hospitals, and a wide range of community programming.
  However, in a way, Wellington is considered New Zealand’s riskiest city. There are four major surface faults in and around the city, a fact which worries residents.
  6. Nelson
  Another popular destination for families, Nelson is close to all the amenities and services of Wellington. As the second oldest city in New Zealand, Nelson has a bit of a quiet, scholarly vibe. It’s a safe, easy-going place to live and work.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:16am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Who wrote that? Here is my version:
    
    “Christchurch. A great city with some good bars and places to eat. Lot’s of great places to go for a walk. Houses somewhat more affordable than Wellington and Auckland but still crazy. Gangs haunt the Eastern suburbs and occasionally come into the city to kill people. If you are going out at night, uber to and from your venue. Don’t walk around after dark in the CBD.
    
    Council is useless. The roads are undulating and look like staying like that forever. Landcruiser would be a good vehicle of choice.”
    
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    October 4, 2021 8:28am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Absolutely freezing in winter. At least in the student flat I was in!
      
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      October 4, 2021 8:57am
  - Yabster
    
    Is that it Milky?- grabbing an article looking at safe places to live based on Geographical factors- lack on volcanoes etc- versus actual crime statistics- Bravo your are officially in the Labour spin team-Brilliant work!
    
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    October 4, 2021 8:36am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Nonsense.
    
    The safest place to live in under your bed. Wearing a mask.
    
    Ardern said so.
    
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    October 4, 2021 8:53am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Not sure what Aotearoa is Mike, since Maori isn’t my thing, and I’m assuming it’s that utterly useless language.
    Anyway, I can say that I have lived in Christchurch, Wellington and Auckland. Born and raised Cantabrian, 10 years in Welly and last 20 in Auckland. Just adding to your comments: Wellington is windy and cold, and has a preponderance of men with great coats, cloth caps and beards. And and a preponderance of men who wear frocks. The bars along Courtenay Place are dark and dim and populated by people wearing dark dim clothes, hip cheese cutter hats and sunglasses. Other than the machinery of Government, it has nothing going for it. Christchurch is, or was, a lovely city. My time there was pre earthquake, and though I visit a lot because of friends, it’s not the same, with dud roads, and tracts of empty sites in city itself. It’s relatively close to a few decent ski fields which is a plus. And it is bloody cold in winter. And the Nor’ easter and easterly winds in summer are a pig. Auckland is warm, has great beaches, and Waiheke and other Gulf islands. But: Traffic. Desperately useless council, generally led by a leftist (right now a professional trougher who wouldn’t be able to hold down a job in the private sector) who makes home owners subsidise pet projects that never work. Rain in winter (this is offset by it generally being warm, I seldom have to change out of shorts and jandals). Edited for typo’s.
    
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    October 4, 2021 8:56am
- Prince
  
  Ten years of Leftist Councils and thirteen years of Grant Robertson as their local MP.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:50am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  I had dinner in Cuba Mall on Saturday evening and the place seemed fairly well populated with multi-level public servants and policy professionals – most seemingly enjoying themselves.
  
  I did wonder what might happen to such places if future economic conditions necessitated cutbacks in public sector spending though
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:02am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Suze, if the Government shifted to Auckland, Wellington would be pretty much be finished, unemployment would skyrocket, average salary would plummet. Sir Peter Jackson can’t employ them all!
    Oh, and those cutbacks will come in the fullness of time. They will be a necessity due to Government debt.
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:52am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  “Failed by the system” says someone. Nope, failed by self. Failed by the system is just code for not being given enough of someone else’s money. Stand up, shoulders back and take responsibility for yourself you losers.
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:47am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Narrow streets and little space to congregate. At the Courtenay Place end its one big swill of boozed ups.
  
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  October 4, 2021 11:18am
Frank the tank

Yesterday was another bad day for Jacinda Canute.

It’s highly likely gangs/drugs are the reason for the spread of Kungflu to the ‘Tron’ given the lack of details regarding the ‘cases’. But what is more of a concern is the gong show of a border between L3 areas and level 2 areas. It’s like St Ash doesn’t understand that a shite load of people commute daily to the Tron from feeder towns such as Cambridge.

As for the gangs – expect cases in Rotovegas, Tauranga and the Hawkes Bay within the next 2 weeks. This is how it works.

The most entertaining part of the Sunday sermon from the podium of truth was the petulant swipe from King Canute over vaccination rates.

Luv – you wanted to be in charge of vaccination so you could hog the good news limelight. The very real reason we have shit rates right now is:
a). We were late to the vaxx party
b). You tried to control rollout and gift your constituents the golden vaccination tickets.

Jacinda luv – you own this.
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October 4, 2021 8:09am
- Classic Liberal
  
  How would early vaccination help, when the Pfizer vaccine wears off after six months?
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:01am
  - crikey
    
    Immunity gradually declines after about 6 months, but the level to which it declines is not yet known, nor the extent to which it decline in different age groups etc etc. Somewhat different to the implication from your ‘wears off’.
    
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    October 4, 2021 10:06am
  - Frank the tank
    
    LOL when your plan is “vaxx will set you free” and the 90% “project” (that hasn’t been achieved anywhere else in the world) is your latest marketing campaign.
    
    For the record I agree with you. Kungflu will rip through New Zimbabwe and vaccination will assisting ain’t a cure or a sure fire bet you won’t get really sick.
    
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    October 4, 2021 10:28am
  - Ehlana
    
    I’m not sure when we became aware of the drop-off rate for the vaccine Classic.
    But I think one reason for not going hard and early on mass vaccination might have been that the Govt didn’t go hard and early on, well, you know, um, getting the vaccines…
    
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    October 4, 2021 10:49am
- RoboRob
  
  The sad thing is, we only know an issue is gang related when no details for the parties involved are given.
  
  I would expect the entire county has or soon will have cases. If the tron has it, then Wellington and CHCH will too. Once it is in the main centres it will quickly spread to the freeder towns.
  
  This morning on the AM show Cindy siad we have otherways to handle the virus, other than levels. Wait until 4pm today. Robinson on the radio said, the ONLY way to handle covid was elimination and strict lockdowns. Who to believe ?
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:07am
- redeye
  
  This is what happens when you empower the gangs like Cindy has.
  Road rage victims killed in the streets by axe wielding gang members.
  
  “He had his own business and was a father and left kids behind and a wife,” the person told the Herald. “He was a very positive role model in the neighbourhood.”
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/otorohanga-homicide-road-rage-was-cause-of-waikato-axe-attack-police-say/NQMYBNI7IA7N53W5MMYLGEWSZQ/
  
  Nothing mentioned in Stuff so I suspect the gang members were from the protected race.
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:20am
- Simon
  
  Although covid has breached the Auckland / Waikato line. Cindy has ordered Steiner to attack immediately
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:20am
- Ruawai
  
  There are roads out of Auckland not controlled by road blocks and the gangs are using these to get through, not rocket science, you leave a hole in a border and people, especially criminals, will move through, these roads are on the western side of State Highway 1. How hard or expensive would it be to have police at all roads to eliminate these routes through. We saw a large group of gang on motorbikes heading that way last week.
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:59am
  - kevn
    
    @Rua… Is that south of Bombays? Back road to the Tron?
    
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    October 4, 2021 2:34pm
cmm

Ok, it is certainly sad that this young man died and doubly distressing for family and friends that he was then only then found two weeks later.

However I think the state trying to legislate against such things sets us off on a dangerous path.

University is an experimental period for many youth as they negotiate the transition from child to adult. University has always treated students as adults – to take responsibility for their own studies, their own lives and their outcomes.

That freedom is essential for youth to become adults. However it also gives students the opportunity to engage in risky and self-destructive behaviour. Many wag class, take off for a week or two, abandoning course they lose interest in or two or end up sleeping elsewhere for a few nights to a few months. I did all of those things. Many hook up with unsuitable sex partners, get pregnant, drink/party to excess, become reclusive and, sadly, some die through risky behaviour or by their own hand. I did less of those things.

While poor outcomes are possible, they need the freedom to make mistakes and call for help when they need it. Without that they will not develop.

All universities provide pastoral care to those that seek it. Now universities are being forced by legislation to actively and intrusively provide this. How?

How is it possible to nanny students while still allowing them to become adults and take responsibility for themselves?

Are the universities now going to intervene when someone goes on a long weekend tramping trip instead of attending Friday’s class?

Are they going to monitor Sally’s love life and tell her that her current boyfriend is a sleezebag? Are they going to make sure she’s taking the pill and has condoms in her purse? Are they going to intervene when she holes up with her boyfriend for a week-long fuckathon?

Are they going to monitor social media use and intervene when people spend too much time on Facebook, or gaming, or studying?

Are they going to intervene after someone has had two beers?

Either we provide students independence to develop into adults or nanny them into perpetual children. This is just “feel good” legislation to allow the government to feel that they did something.

Worse yet, now that the precedent has been set, and we have non-specific legislation, we’re going to see this branch out into other areas and other unintended consequences. We’re already seeing some disinvestment from student accommodation as organisations see further investment in this area as too hard.

It is time that MPs wake up and realise that government and legislation is not the answer to all problems. Legislation might be the only tool in their toolbox (apart from funding) but that does not mean they should attempt to solve all problems. Sometimes you don’t have the answers. It is pure arrogance to think that you always do.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/death-of-mason-pendrous-in-canterbury-university-dorm-room-coroner-releases-final-report/F73UK3W2K2C7QONZ3FKOJJRF24/
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October 4, 2021 8:10am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Agree – young people who go to university are likely to be more resilient than a bunch of others who drop out of school, come from dysfunctional families etc.
  
  Can’t fix all problems. In fact this Government can’t seem to fix any problems.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:30am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Concur cmm. It is typical of a socialism to try and legislate solutions to everything. Human nature cannot be legislated for, but there are many that are too intellectually bereft to know this. I mean, if kids want to fire fireworks at each other, they will. If they want to roll down Baldwin St on wheeled couches (or in a rubbish bin), they will.
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:03am
Vory v zakone

The Director of the US CDC admitted on live TV that the vaccine does not prevent transmission of the virus.

For months anyone who said that has been called an anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist and was quickly suspended on social media.

How much longer do we have to keep listening to these “experts” who continuously lie?
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October 4, 2021 8:14am
- Vory v zakone
  
  Meanwhile…
  According to new stats from Public Health Wales in the UK:
  
  -99% of people who tested positive for Covid in the past week were under 60 years old
  
  -63% were vaccinated
  
  -87% of COVID hospitalizations were vaccinated.
  
  Interesting numbers.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:30am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “For months anyone who said that has been called an anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist and was quickly suspended on social media.”
  
  Depends what you mean by “Stop”. It declines from about 80 percent effectiveness to 40 percent over 8 months. That is a fact based on large scale studies. If people are saying the vaccine “STOPS” transmission – i.e it is like a measles virus which does STOP transmission, they are in la la land. Who are these people?
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:33am
- krazykiwi
  
  This has been suspected for 10 months, and known for 6 months.
  
  Speaking of lying, look at Ardern’s presser backdrop. Apparently protection is characterised by wearing a mask. Except of course there is zero protection offered by a mask. Endless lies and manipulation.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:35am
  - kevn
    
    @kk… Not up. Been ‘cleansed’ by fakebook?
    
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    October 4, 2021 8:54am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Well, yes, but why are you presenting this as though it were some amazing shock new revelation that completely up-ends everything we thought we knew?
  
  It’s never been claimed that the vaccine entirely prevents infection. It’s always been clear that it makes infection less likely, serious illness much less likely, and death very much less likely. Nobody with any scientific or medical credential has claimed that it makes any of the above impossible.
  
  And again – so what? Are you under the impression that this information invalidates the case for getting the vaccine?
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:51am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Oh yes it has been claimed, by a number of very public figures including, as it happens, Joe Biden. Of course you can excuse Joe as is generally isn’t aware of what day it is, but it certainly was the original stance, the vaccine prevents infection.
    
    It is simply later revisionism forced by actual results that has forced the backdown to the position that the vaccine is only “intended to reduce the severity..etc”.
    
    Own it Albert, it was so claimed, and was always untrue, and those making such untrue claims were called on it but the contrary voices were censored and suppressed.
    
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    October 4, 2021 11:18am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Our Dear PM has promised us that getting to a high level of vaccination is our Golden ticket out of lockdowns..
    Let’s check in around October 2022….
    when I suspect most of NZ will be double-vaccinated and the country will have had at least one pretty big outbreak of Covid throughout the country or will still be in lockdown mode.
    
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    October 4, 2021 11:44am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    It invalidates forcing other people to get the jab for your benefit. See the Australian Fair Work Commission document – read from part 2, starting P32. https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/decisionssigned/html/2021fwcfb6015.htm
    
    “Unlike many other vaccinations such as those used to stop the spread of tetanus, yellow fever and smallpox, COVID vaccinations are not designed to stop COVID. They are designed to reduce the symptoms of the virus, however a fully vaccinated person can contract and transmit COVID.”
    
    Furthermore scientists such as Dr Malone and Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche state that universal vaccination is training more escape mutants that are able to overcome any of these adaptive immune responses focused on the spike.
    
    Malone considers universal vaccination more risky to the population than vaccinating just high risk people (who he admits will also need ongoing booster shots).
    
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    October 4, 2021 11:47am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Transmission of the virus can occur between people who are vaccinated. STDs can be transferred when a condom is used. Road deaths can occur when everyone is wearing a seatbelt.
  
  None of that is new, interesting, or relevant. What’s your point here?
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:26am
  - krazykiwi
    
    I think his point was that people who noted the vaccine’s inability to prevent transmission were previously lampooned as conspiracy theorists. Now they are now vindicated by officialdom.
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:38am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      No. The opprobrium was not to people who said that the vaccine isn’t 100% effective.
      
      The opprobrium was to people who presented this information as if it were a good reason not to get vaccinated. It wasn’t then, and it isn’t now.
      
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      October 4, 2021 9:51am
      - Ed Snack
        
        No, the opprobrium was given to anyone who didn’t initially toe the party line.
        
        Those who rightly also warned that leaky non-sterilising vaccines also drive mutation were also vilified, and that this should be factored into how we treat people.
        
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        October 4, 2021 11:21am
- KevO'Brien
  
  I’m just letting those who accept the deception wait till its revealed.
  If you dismiss reports of danger from capable people you miss the possibilities. When you encounter a scenario mapped out several years previously that’s significant.
  There has been sufficient revealed in plain sight not to pass the sniff test of this old investigator.
  
  Meanwhile the economy is being pukerooed by amateurs.
  
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  October 4, 2021 11:31am
Maggy Wassilieff

How our taxpayers’ money is being used by this Government’s mouthpieces.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018814519/huge-journalism-jobs-boost-from-public-purse
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October 4, 2021 8:15am
- BananaLlama
  
  But former Herald editor-in-chief Gavin Ellis insists public cash input does not corrupt our news media.
  “IT…DOESN’T…HAPPEN,” he wrote on his blog last week.
  
  A simple test to determine the truth of this would be to see if they have a single employee that votes for ACT working for them at all.
  14% of the country would vote for the ACT party yet they would make up 0% of their staff.
  The political right are mugs if they don’t pull the funding from these institutions and start smacking them with antitrust laws.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:37am
  - SoloView
    
    Replying to BananaLlama
    
    “A simple test to determine the truth of this would be to see if they have a single employee that votes for ACT working for them at all.
    14% of the country would vote for the ACT party yet they would make up 0% of their staff.”
    
    We don’t need a simple test – without offering any proof you’ve already decided for us that it’s 0%.
    
    11% (not 14%) of the country would vote for ACT.
    Be hey – what does 3% of the vote matter – unless you’re Winston Peters
    
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    October 4, 2021 12:11pm
- Cinematic
  
  How many journalists does NZ really need?
  
  If there were demand then surely a big dollop of taxpayer’s money wouldn’t be necessary?
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:41am
- Ruahine
  
  “He who pays the Piper calls the tune”.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:52am
- hullkiwi
  
  Clearly, Jax needs more bought & paid for journos to sing her praises
  
  And we mocked the Nazis or other totalitarian regimes.
  
  So much for an independent 4th Estate!
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:06am
- mandk
  
  That’s a “huge journalism jobs boost from the public purse” at a cool $500,000 per job.
  
  Impressive, huh?
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:07am
- ecco
  
  Would also be interesting to know how much Ardern and co are spending on their blanket covid advertising in the mainstream media. I’d like to know how big the advertising accounts are with the Ferald and Stuffed. Is it in the tens of millions$? This is also a form of control over the msm narrative through corporate welfare.
  
  Clearly this covid advertising is not even working re vaccination rates of low socio economic demographics so why does the government persist with it. It’s just spending money for the sake of it and buying influence over the msm.
  
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  October 4, 2021 10:00am
Frank the tank

How many other first world countries have axe attacks in town main streets during daylight?

Asking for Maggie Pie
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October 4, 2021 8:16am
- krazykiwi
  
  Cue calls for axe sales to be banned.
  
  Things will be grim by the time we get our first death by feather duster.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:31am
  - G152
    
    Gang houses should be raided and axes taken away if silly Cindys rules are followed
    
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    October 4, 2021 8:38am
    - Ehlana
      
      They need their axes for protection G152. Just like they need their guns.
      
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      October 4, 2021 10:55am
      - sooty
        
        I would quess that the axe would be more like the indian tomahawk fighting axe. It would handle, swing better, with better balance!
        
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        October 4, 2021 4:40pm
  - stewmar
    
    Cue calls for axe sales to be banned
    
    Ban towns???
    
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    October 4, 2021 8:56am
  - Ruawai
    
    Here’s an idea for the Government, control the gangs!!! They are currently out of control.
    
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    October 4, 2021 10:05am
- kowtow
  
  Govt’s have brought us to this by abolishing capital punishment and creating soft sentencing.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:53am
- krazykiwi
  
  Axe attacks in were a customary greeting in the main town streets of every country as recently as 1,000 years ago.
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:03am
  - Frank the tank
    
    [unnecessary antagonism and not making a contribution – Mod]
    
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    October 4, 2021 10:30am
krazykiwi

Bio fascism is alive and well in Israel. A million citizens are about to be stripped of their ‘Vaccine Passports’ because they haven’t had a third/booster jab.

I say ‘third’, because once the third jab is 6 months past then it will be time for the forth. And fifth.

Want your life back? Nope, it’s not yours unless you agree to continuously present your shoulder for latest therapeutic concoction.
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October 4, 2021 8:28am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “I say ‘third’, because once the third jab is 6 months past then it will be time for the forth. And fifth.”
  
  I doubt that. Israel is a pretty smart country. I would trade their Government any day.
  
  This is a smoothing mechanism to endemic. The only people who may get continuing booster jabs are the very vulnerable who have managed to AVOID infection so far. Everyone else will be fine.
  
  Israel is going to end up in a way more rational place than New Zealand.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:36am
  - krazykiwi
    
    It will be interesting to watch. While WHO and CDC have walked back from their earlier ‘boosters for everyone’ rhetoric, Israel still appears to be planning to have everyone triple jabbed.
    
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    October 4, 2021 8:48am
    - RoboRob
      
      Wait for the CDC and WHO to flip on that and move back to boosters for all. Both are politically influenced and , as we see here, governments need to be seen to be doing something.
      
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      October 4, 2021 9:10am
  - Ed Snack
    
    They’ve already talked of requiring a 4th jab for some. They may back off, but it is looking like an annual or even 6 monthly jab is a possibility.
    
    Too early to tell, and maybe a better vaccine will become available, or everyone will ultimately acquire natural immunity.
    
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    October 4, 2021 11:29am
- dcrane
  
  And when the flu makes a roaring comeback that could be added to the “passport” requirements.
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:39am
Frank the tank

If you were looking to ‘seal the deal’ with the UK and possibly Europe would you send “Danger Damo” to plead your case?
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October 4, 2021 8:29am
- hullkiwi
  
  The worst thing about this junket, was that no proper meeting’s with specific agendas were arranged before O’connor jetted off on his foreign sojourn. This despite this trip apparently being organised in late July/early August. We know this because this is what we the sheeple of this land were told in August.
  
  Simple question for O’connor staff and the bureaucrats of MFAT, how hard is it to speak to your colleagues in Washington DC, London and Brussels in order to make the necessary arrangements, instead of having a minister travel overseas on what looks like a junket stitched together at the last minute?
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:20am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Imagine when he is asked at an upmarket restaurant in France for his vaxx passport and he produces his piece of cardboard…….
    
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    October 4, 2021 10:32am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Wonder if it is his Swan song… trying to get in some junkets before he dips out of politics?
    
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    October 4, 2021 11:48am
- Master Mariner
  
  Exactly what I was thinking, I Honestly hope he does’nt sign ANYTHING.
  What could possibly go wrong and with Unintended consequences.
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:49am
Yvette

The Government has set an informal target of 90 percent of eligible Kiwis – those aged 12-plus – to reconsider the use of lockdowns to stop the spread of the Delta variant. Dr Jackson says the evidence is that’s not good enough – he wants 95 percent minimum. [1]
– but 95 percent of 84 is still only a fraction less than 80 percent of the whole sloganised Team of Five Million.

During all of her press conferences throughout the outbreak, Ardern has remained consistent in being concise and direct about her strategy. But she has also been honest about her concerns. It this authenticity that has been a constant trait in her leadership since in 2017. [2]

That was printed October last year, but now is utter fucking rubbish in view of Ardern’s refusal to name an absolute vaccination percentage target.

However, that may be Jacinda’s personal problem, like swearing never to utter Tarrant’s name (publicised world-wide consequent of the backfire of her intention). A real problem would seem to be that setting a target for all those eligible may be utterly wrong and a total misdirection? – it misses the emphasis Tomtoddy yesterday gave [3] to the absolute priority to vaccinate as many of the elderly as their health allows.

So, instead of Ardern’s six Ministers of Health (seven, it seems, counting her) wrongly concentrating on 90% of the eligible population – so in reality only 75.6 percent of the whole population – shouldn’t they be ensuring as close to 100 percent as is possible of the vulnerable elderly, be vaccinated?

[1] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/10/coronavirus-expert-s-blunt-message-to-the-govt-as-it-ponders-level-2-for-auckland-how-brutal-do-you-want-to-go.html 15/06/2017
[2] https://www.vogue.co.uk/news/article/jacinda-ardern-leadership-style 19/10/2020
[3] https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/10/general_debate_03_october_2021.html#comment-3031557
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October 4, 2021 8:29am
artemisia

A long article in Stuff today about solo parents who struggle to feed their babies. Not an emotive headline then.

The net of it is that some child support paid by liable parents stays with the government unless the total is more than the benefit paid. In which case some gets paid to the other parent. Minister Sepuloni says that is not fair and she is looking into changing it.

It has already changed in part as those applying for a solo parent benefit no longer have to name the father.

Sole parent benefits are designed to support the family, and there are several add ons to the basic benefit that can lift the total amount significantly. So a targeted change has to be preferable to a blanket change.

If there is a change as Minister Sepuloni proposed, the consequences will be entirely expected. And any contrary voice will be greeted with ‘starving babies’.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300418067/the-mothers-struggling-to-feed-their-babies-while-the-state-keeps-all-their-child-support
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October 4, 2021 8:30am
- Cinematic
  
  Man that would be a sweet deal. On the bene and getting 100% of the child support tax the ex is paying.
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:13am
  - SoloView
    
    Hi Cinematic.
    It’s an ever sweeter deal if Covid lockdowns have not done your job in.
    You get the 100% “child support tax” paid to IRD by your ex.
    
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    October 4, 2021 12:25pm
- Ehlana
  
  If Mum can’t feed their children on the benefit and Dad’s child support payments don’t even match that amount, perhaps it is time for some articles on “The fathers not supporting their own children”.
  
  How do these adult males (let us not call them men) feel about their children not having enough to eat? How well are they eating themselves?
  
  And yes, I do know there are adult females who use children as weapons against their fathers. Are these actually the majority of these hungry child cases?
  
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  October 4, 2021 11:12am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Cut a deal with the father. I won’t name you as the father and you pay me cash. We split the support payment so we’re both better off.
  
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  October 4, 2021 1:07pm
dcrane

Splashy item in the Herald reveals a financial leak called The Pandora Papers (oddly similar to the Panama Papers of 2016) – financial documents supposedly showing how the world’s wealthy hide their assets. The Herald is part of an international group of reporting organizations involved in “analyzing” the leak. But the only names I see mentioned in the article are individuals from politically disfavored countries (Russia, China, Brazil…). Are there no Kiwis hiding their wealth who should be exposed? No local significance? How about wealthy Western individuals or government figures?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/pandora-papers-massive-leak-exposes-offshore-assets-of-world-leaders-billionaires-and-other-powerful-figures/ZMPEWPFF3ZECEVHHEVHAZGH7DA/
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October 4, 2021 8:34am
- Ed Snack
  
  Comes from Pakistan I believe, which has become a bit of a hub for organising money laundering escapades. Especially after Panama was exposed a few years ago. There is a shed load of dark money that gets around most if not all international restrictions.
  
  It will be interesting to see what fall out there is. Apparently (but yet to be verified) is that the data shows several very large banking groups are waist or more deep in these schemes.
  
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  October 4, 2021 11:34am
dime

Jacinda pumping vaccination HARD.

Quick question:

Where was this enthusiasm to have everyone vaccinated 3 months ago? 6 months ago?

Now we get – we can do 8 billion people a day. the local dairy can do it for you. Or the dude at the local caltex!

But 3 months ago it was – “we have 62 shots available now. if you are 62 years and 16 weeks old, male, type 2 diabetic and have erectyle disfunction, you now qualify for the vaccine”
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October 4, 2021 8:42am
- Cinematic
  
  Delta has forced their hand. I’ve been impatiently waiting for Delta to win the day. Finally it seems it has.
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:14am
- RoboRob
  
  Where are all those labour supporters who defended the slow roll out saying ‘we dont need the vaccine, other countries need it first’?
  
  Those do gooders and academics really pissed me off 🙂
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:14am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Other countries still need vaccines..and with their lower living standards, their folks probably need the vaccines more than our well-off, privileged, over-fed folks.
    
    Covid-19 vaccinations: More than 50 nations have missed a target set by the WHO
    https://www.bbc.com/news/56100076
    
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    October 4, 2021 12:02pm
    - RoboRob
      
      True. Doesn’t change the fact that we also needed it (to avoid lockdowns in this case). We have given the other vaccines we orderd to some of the poorer countries.
      
      We can afford it, so we should have got it, those countries you mention can’t afford it and are relying on the generousity of others. We worked for our place in the world so why should we forgo the benefits?
      
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      October 4, 2021 1:34pm
- Bridgenag
  
  lol
  
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  October 4, 2021 2:26pm
Cinematic

Michael Baker playing loose with the truth again today. Stating an unvaccinated person can send an aerosol of covid through the pub. Omitting the fact that a double jabbed from a few months ago can do the same thing.

In most professions that would be considered a misrepresentation or lying by omission. Not it seems in the health profession.
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October 4, 2021 8:44am
- dime
  
  The ends justify the means apparently
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:35am
- Fletch
  
  [Deleted – Not without proof. Mod.]
  
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  October 4, 2021 10:38am
Tony Stuart

So, the PM told Newshub’s Ryan Bridge that we’re transitioning away from the elimination strategy; that’s good. But on the 8.30am news on Newstalk ZB, Grant Robertson was saying that we have put so much emphasis on elimination that we can’t stop now.

Is there a significant difference of opinion between to Prime Minister and her Deputy, and if so, who has more support in Cabinet?
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October 4, 2021 8:52am
- krazykiwi
  
  we have put so much emphasis on elimination that we can’t stop now
  
  Like a moth to a flame. So bright! So bright! Can’t stop. Won’t stop. [Pfffff sizzle pop starburst]
  
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  October 4, 2021 8:56am
  - RoboRob
    
    Isn’t there are syaing around ‘doing the same thing over and over again even though you know it isn’t working’?
    
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    October 4, 2021 9:18am
- Cinematic
  
  Grant has the good sense to realise that when the populace awakens from the covid coma its gonna be like WTF!!!
  
  The clown government will be fully revealed in all its glorious incompetence. Grant knows this.
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:06am
  - artemisia
    
    Grant Robertson has the big chair well in his sights. He is clever enough to be curating his own narrative now and he will be able to point to it later.
    
    Prediction – CGT coming up as soon as Ms Ardern steps down.
    
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    October 4, 2021 10:59am
    - pdm
      
      Bloody hell Arty.
      
      Are you saying that when Jacinda scuttles off to the UN or some similar place they won’t all go?
      
      I was counting on a 747 full of them leaving – with a few Greens thrown in as a bonus.
      
      You know how the markets work..
      
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      October 4, 2021 1:19pm
  - Bobba Fret
    
    Grant is a smarter politician, but she is the more popular one. And as he is aware, many people who vote vote based on looks and popularity alone.
    
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    October 4, 2021 11:29am
    - pdm
      
      Doesn’t know much about economics or finance though.
      
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      October 4, 2021 1:21pm
- RoboRob
  
  Posted the same a bit up thread. Clearly JA has more support. Without her Labour are screwed and they know it. The gulf between Robinson and JA shows just how all over the place they are on this and how little planning has gone on.
  
  JA said this morning that they had a detailed plan for Auckland (thank you John Key) and that they would annouce it this afternoon. Has Robertson not heard of said plan?
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:17am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Hang on one second! The First Man is on record as saying John Key is wrong, just so wrong! I wonder what they discuss in other matters of state?
    
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    October 4, 2021 11:25am
- Simon
  
  Yep. Will Cindy doing that little zero covid victory dance again or is she just puking into a rubbish bin?
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:25am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Her choreographers are taking a rain check
    
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    October 4, 2021 11:26am
- Prince
  
  No doubt Tova will expose this tonight, with sound bite grabs and hints of Cabinet leaks.
  
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  October 4, 2021 11:15am
Ruawai

Ardern said on RNZ this morning we can’t put an iron clad border around South Island but this is exactly what she tried to do with NZ.
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October 4, 2021 8:55am
- Ehlana
  
  We could try surrounding it with water… that should keep people in!
  
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  October 4, 2021 12:06pm
Maggie Pie

Ma phoned earlier. She was saying she laid awake last night listening to ZB talkback. Couldn’t believe the number of back-seat-drivers phoning in from the South Island….. all too ready to blame Auckland for the spread of Delta and the continuation of their own ‘Level-2’ woes.

Like Ma said, “They’ve obviously forgotten about didymo”
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October 4, 2021 9:01am
- Ruahine
  
  The South Islanders are probably right in a way but I think they need to be reminded that it seems to be a particular type of Aucklander that is spreading the virus and that these same Aucklanders seem to have a friends in High Places.
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:16am
  - Ruawai
    
    And in Raglan.
    
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    October 4, 2021 10:09am
  - Scooter
    
    High, haha I see what you did there
    
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    October 4, 2021 11:57pm
- RoboRob
  
  I can confirm the didymo isn’t a gang in the South Island spreading covid around during lock down 🙂
  
  We cant blame Aucklanders or even the gangs (although they clearly have helped accelerate the issue). Delta was going to spread eventually anyway.
  
  I think the thing that pisses people off most down here is that we are a seperate island with no cases and were put into lockdown anyway. The govt could easily have put is back to level 2 (or 1) after the first week on level 4 with the same border controls as protects NZ from AU. They didn ‘t and the really pisses a lot of people off.
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:23am
  - Ehlana
    
    RoboRob, how would letting the South Island have the (medically justifiable) Level 1 controls serve the political purpose of retaining re-election support among Labour voters in Auckland?
    
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    October 4, 2021 12:09pm
    - RoboRob
      
      I know your joking but it was a political mistake in my opinion.
      
      The Labour loving cities of CHCH and Dunedin are filled with Labour voters who are somewhat pissed about being locked down again for no obvious reason. Some of these people might remember this in a few years (not likely but some 🙂 )
      
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      October 4, 2021 1:37pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Didymo is native to the far northern regions of the Northern Hemisphere, including Europe, Asia, and parts of North America (i.e.,Vancouver Island). Historically it has been limited to cool, clear, flowing rivers and streams with relatively high water quality and good light penetration.
  It was brought to NZ by tourists on their fishing gear and clothing and further spread on the bottom of kayaks.
  You would have to wonder though, how didymo got established here when, according to the Labour Party and a great number of New Zealanders, we don’t have “cool, clear, flowing rivers and streams with relatively high water quality” here.
  Havn’t all our rivers and streams been severely polluted by farming?
  To the extent that we have to be inflicted with the Three Waters as punishment.
  
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  October 4, 2021 10:45am
krazykiwi

A good essay on bullshit.

Pardon my American, but it is finally necessary to write about bullshit. In 2005 the American philosopher Harry G. Frankfurt wrote a book entitled On Bullshit. He characterised bullshit by saying that it is not simply telling lies, or misrepresenting the truth, but having a lack of interest in the truth. The bullshitter may tell the truth, or may lie, but, either way, who cares, that is not his primary concern. His primary concern is to say something which will achieve some other thing which is not obviously evident from the words themselves – amusing everyone, perhaps, or scaring everyone, or simply getting on, climbing the greasy pole, or securing a contract.

I wonder if our PM got a pre-print of this?
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October 4, 2021 9:06am
- Yvette
  
  krazykiwi – I wonder if our PM got a pre-print of this?
  No, Ardern attained her high levels of la foutaise by attending the University of Waikato, graduating in 2001 with a Bachelor of Communication Studies (BCS) in politics and public relations.
  
  Ironically when you Google “Jacinda Ardern”, Google tells you –
  People also search for Brenton Tarrant, Sanna Marin, Judith Collins, Ross Ardern
  
  Sanna Marin is Finland’s younger answer to Jacinda Ardern
  Marin was raised by same-sex parents, and – like Ardern – spent her teenage years working in food preperation, specifically a bakery.
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2019/12/meet-sanna-marin-finland-s-answer-to-jacinda-ardern.html
  
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  October 4, 2021 9:31am
- Ruawai
  
  Watch Ryan Bridge interview this morning of Jacinda Ardern, she wanted to keep talking as much as possible to limit the number of questions Ryan could ask her, then when he insisted on asking more questions and interrupting her she got all huffy.
  
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  October 4, 2021 10:11am
Warren

Anyone prepare to bet that the new Pandorapapers and the massive leaks exposing offshore assets of World Leaders ,Billionaires and other powerful figures will someway be blamed again on our National Party in New Zealand even though the Government and the Labour Party have had four year to tidy up the loose ends from the Panama papers since being elected.
The Herald and T V One Journalists have joined forces to uncover more stories on the thousands of documents released from the Pandora papers a follow on from the Panama papers.
However promises by Ministers in 2017 that Foriegn Trusts would become subject to New Zealand tax have not been enacted.
“Pandora Papers: Massive leak exposes offshore assets of world leaders, billionaires and other powerful figures” https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/pandora-papers-massive-leak-exposes-offshore-assets-of-world-leaders-billionaires-and-other-powerful-figures/ZMPEWPFF3ZECEVHHEVHAZGH7DA/
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October 4, 2021 9:08am
- Warren
  
  Isn’t it funny that when National were the Government Labour hounded them to fix the loopholes found in the Panama papers but now the are Government and four years later when the Pandora papers have hit the headlines Labour are still not interested in making Foriegn trusts pay tax.
  https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/closing-remaining-foreign-trust-tax-loophole-not-priority-government
  
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  October 4, 2021 11:10am
cas

You could lift the vac rates up in our lowest performing areas by telling people that they can’t get into the following unless they have been vaccinated – WINZ, pokies, TAB, fast food outlets, liquor store outlets and pubs. That should do it.
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October 4, 2021 9:12am
Ra Henare

NZ Herald playing sexism games?

Under headline
Top Air NZ exec quits to run Auckland Airport
They have a photo of a MAN.
The executive leaving is a woman

Whats up with that?
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October 4, 2021 9:24am
- ecco
  
  Women are in big demand as CEO’s and on boards with the ESG and woke agendas we live with now.
  
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  October 4, 2021 11:22am
- JibberJabber
  
  “Whats up with that?”
  That my friend is a journalism, in fact, it is a “Premium Journalism”!
  
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  October 4, 2021 11:51am
RoboRob

Anyone else notice that within a week of a letter from John Key outlining a lack of planning and action on Covid the Labour government has

1. New Landlord covid rules, obviously rushed through without consultation or much thought.

2. Plans to annouce today a plan, with steps, on how to proceed out of covid.

3. Air NZ has annouced clear details around travel.

Amazing what some bad PR can do for NZs most reactionary government ever.
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October 4, 2021 9:27am
Chuck Bird

Just heard Prof Des Gorman on Radio Magic. The government should be listening to him – not Hendy.
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October 4, 2021 9:33am
- Master Mariner
  
  The Voice of Reason.
  
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  October 4, 2021 10:05am
- alex Masterley
  
  Chuck,
  Des Gorman speaks sense. Hendy doesnt but has the PM’s ear.
  Thats the problem.
  
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  October 4, 2021 10:07am
rangitoto

Poor Taxinda is getting slammed in the comments.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10053523/New-Zealands-Delta-outbreak-spreads-outside-Auckland.html#comments
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October 4, 2021 9:34am
- ecco
  
  Terrible look for NZ, even as a destination for health professionals looking to move here. The comments are 95% against Ardern and her covid elimination pipe dream.
  
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  October 4, 2021 11:44am
Handyman

A random thought…
Wouldn’t it be good if every time someone created a “temporary” law they should give the reasons why AND ALSO give the criteria on which the temporary laws will be revoked.
Air NZ could start by telling us what are the criteria for revoking the “all vax and masks” mandate.
Would it be the same criteria as Labour uses for dropping the alert level — it will stay in place for as long as voters tolerate it?
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October 4, 2021 9:40am
CAKE FACE1

Thank God for Brian Tamaki.

At least someone protested against this Zero Covid fraud. We are a nation of lickspittles, with only a lickspittle media to represent our concerns.

It feels like it is coming to an end now.

Cindy is in denial. It seems that she is lying as much to herself, as she is to everyone else. Instead of fantasy dreams about perfect vaccine effectiveness, she should have focussed on getting more ICUs…

I suppose as the glorious Roman Empire was coming to an end, with the Vandals trooping relentlessly towards Rome, their Senate probably adopted denial strategies. So be it…
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October 4, 2021 9:55am
- Stu2
  
  You’ve used Brian Tamaki and fraud in the same post, I wonder why
  
  I must admit he is good at parting his followers from their cash
  
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  October 4, 2021 12:01pm
  - dcrane
    
    Now was the time to send shot across the government’s bow.
    
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    October 4, 2021 2:55pm
Captain Mainwaring

Is the tide turning? Ryan Bridge really put the bunsen burner under Princess Pinocchio this morning.
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October 4, 2021 10:07am
- RoboRob
  
  JA complains that Ryan doesn’t let her answer questions. Which is somewhat true. The issue is that her answers are always far to long and tend to not answer the question. I believe she would like to pull the plug on the AM show as she did with Mike Hoskings radio show. The problem is she needs all the media she can get right now.
  
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  October 4, 2021 10:23am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    She actually talked over Ryan!
    
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    October 4, 2021 11:18am
  - Prince
    
    Time to call in RNZ’s Mediawatch to run some hit pieces against Ryan Bridge.
    
    13 0
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    October 4, 2021 11:19am
    - kowtow
      
      No , the mobocracy will go after the sponsors , so the network will be able to appear to be acting in their own best interests .”For the sake of the company this shit stirrer had to go”
      
      That’s how they got Plunkett . You’d think that would make a very good story for some enterprising investigative journalist to cover ………afterall it has a huge impact on freedom of the press.
      
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      October 4, 2021 12:11pm
    - Inandout
      
      Prince, Ryan is openly gay so I doubt he is vulnerable to being thrown under a passing bus.
      
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      October 4, 2021 12:31pm
    - Bridgenag
      
      Mind you that site has swung to the left of late
      
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      October 4, 2021 2:39pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    He job is to answer questions, not ask them
    
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    October 4, 2021 2:53pm
- Frank the tank
  
  Watch for the petulant, narcissistic women-child that develops over the next couple of weeks. The 1-trick pony just discovered her trick doesn’t work anymore.
  
  The MSM and her minders have built her up as a modern day Joan-of-Ark. The comedown will be mentally too difficult for her to handle.
  
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  October 4, 2021 10:38am
  - PeeJay
    
    While disagreeing with her politically, I must confess to being a bit concerned about her when this all turns to custard – as we are starting to see. We can be reasonably sure that she has severe anxiety issues from various media stories over the last few years and she was not sounding / looking too flash yesterday. If this gets away from her, which it will, the impact on her mental health will not be flash. The same fawning media will love sticking the knife in (scorpion and the frog – it’s in their nature) should it get really bad. All political lives end in failure….this could end really badly.
    
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    October 4, 2021 11:30am
    - DeepBlue
      
      She looked even worse on Ryan Bridge interview today, with massive dark rings under her eyes.
      
      I believe she is in such turmoil as she has finally been caught out by Covid. The game has liderally changed and she no longer knows how to play, and certainly hasn’t been preparing.
      
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      October 4, 2021 3:22pm
  - Stu2
    
    After opening up having continuous cases in the community (and consequent hospitalisations and deaths) is going to difficult for this govt to deal with.
    
    A major change in the narrative.
    
    And the drop of in vaccine performance, and the fact it makes you safer but not safe, is another difficulty.
    
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    October 4, 2021 1:59pm
- rangitoto
  
  Princess Pinocchio! That’s our Crime Minister you are referring to.
  
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  October 4, 2021 10:43am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  A chat with our daughters suggests that if the tide is turning, then it is turning at a very very slow rate, if any. The percentage of women aged 18 to 60 who continue to adore Jacinda is depressing.
  
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  October 4, 2021 11:19am
pdm

Anyone else hear that Kiri Allen has been hunting during Lock down. Still she has a lot of going for her so no sacking imminent:

1. Recent Cancer Surgery.
2. Maori woman.
3. It took over 6 months for David Clark to be sacked a year ago.
4. David Clark was quickly reinstated to the big bucks.

Looks like – no harm no foul.

Plus Jacinda is too scared anyway to take on the `so called’ Maori Caucus.
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October 4, 2021 10:40am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  She was on Ngamatea station with the NZ Game Council in her role as Min of Conservation.
  
  Check out her Facebook.
  
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  October 4, 2021 12:13pm
ecco

Saw Michael Baker on the AM show this morning. He has clearly changed his messaging, no doubt at the request of Ardern – that elimination is no longer possible or practical. Also has softened his attitude and admitted it is hard for some (ie all the Auckland businesses going under).

Very obvious that Ardern has a handful of these guys on her payroll doing her media bidding on a rotated basis throughout the week, including weekends, to back up her approach to covid. In order of idiocy/extremism they are: Wiles, Jackson, Hendy, Plank, Baker. These people will no doubt be rewarded handsomely with invitations to join policy committees etc down the track.

Jackson in particular is just a rabid mess of a person who is just babbling off in an incomprehensible way. Anyone who’s seen him on the AM show and Newshub over the weekend would concur with me on this one.
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October 4, 2021 10:50am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Those 5 will be special guests at the wedding
  
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  October 4, 2021 12:47pm
Fletch

So apparently, “A survey by the Auckland Business Chamber suggests 90 percent of small and medium sized businesses want [a mandate to force all employees to be vaccinated].”

And they want the govt to enforce it.

Most small businesses are backing mandatory vaccination in workplaces.

A survey by the Auckland Business Chamber suggests 90 percent of small and medium sized businesses want it.

Chief executive Michael Barnett says told Mike Yardley the Government must mandate it, otherwise the obvious legal battles would come.

“It’s about safety and it’s safety for workplaces and safety for the consumers and the Government needs to remove the ambiguity and give clarity for employers and do it now.”

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/michael-barnett-auckland-business-chamber-survey-suggests-businesses-want-government-to-mandate-covid-19-vaccines/

They even want a logo to stick on the door that shows all employees in the business are vaxxed. This is getting so totalitarian. It’s like Lord of the Flies. Put what you would consider otherwise normal people in extreme circumstances and baser authoritarian instincts take over.

As in Australia, we have only provisional approval for the vaccine here. Which means they are still part of a clinical trial, which no one can be forced to take part in.
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October 4, 2021 10:56am
- Batman
  
  Have you considered that since vaccinated has clear supported from the public, business, and business lobby groups, that it might be the small minority that includes you which is the outlier?
  
  We don’t really care much for the right to spread disease, to be frank.
  
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  October 4, 2021 11:41am
  - All_on_Red
    
    ‘We don’t really care much for the right to spread disease’
    Lol
    Batman doesn’t realise that even if you are vaxxed you can still spread Covid
    
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    October 4, 2021 11:50am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Batman, Every time you exhale (and based on your commentary here I’m assuming it’s through your mouth!), there is potential for that to include Streptococcus pneumoniae, Staphylococcus aureus, Methicillin-resistant Stphylococcus aureus (MRSA), Escherichia coli, Klebsiella pneumoniae, Pseudomonas aeruginosa, Acinetobacter baumannii, Stenotrophomonas maltophilia, Haemophilus influenzae, Legionella pneumophila, Mycoplasma Pneumonia, Chlamydia pneumonia, and Mycobacterium tuberculosis. The list runs to 1800, but I’ll stop it there.
    
    Every human spreads pathogens. With every breath. Every day.
    
    Do try to keep up.
    
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    October 4, 2021 12:04pm
    - Northshoredoc
      
      Sigh …can’t be bothered.
      
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      October 4, 2021 1:18pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        yep
        
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        October 4, 2021 1:32pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        Yeah fair enough. I was a bit glib. But I remain amazed at people’s naïve belief that our otherwise pure breath is devastatingly corrupted by SARS-CoV-2. We quite literally inhale and exhale a veritable soup of pathogens, and our miraculous immune system deals with 99.9999999999% of these without missing a beat.
        
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        October 4, 2021 3:37pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Honestly I agree with much of what you post but that was pretty stupid, made more ironic than the “keep up” salutation.
      
      The COVID vaccines significantly reduce the transmission of COVID. That does wane over time, but you acting like it is just useless is not helpful to the debate at all. Anyone who does not get vaccinated is foolish. I support that right but it is a very foolish decision which will come with curtailment on your ability to participate in society.
      
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      October 4, 2021 1:32pm
      - dcrane
        
        Can you point us to a good example of the proof that the vaccine reduces transmission? I have mainly seen evidence regarding reduction of symptoms/severity.
        
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        October 4, 2021 2:35pm
    - tf78
      
      Krazy, you forgot the main culprit Carbon Dioxide which is killing the planet.
      
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      October 4, 2021 7:35pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    The under 12s will be spreading the disease…
    
    Our Dear PM told us yesterday that the virus is “literally finding unvaccinated people”
    
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/10/coronavirus-jacinda-ardern-urges-new-zealanders-to-get-vaccinated-to-avoid-lockdowns.html
    
    Very reassuring for young families, I’m sure.//
    
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    October 4, 2021 1:30pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  Australian Fair Work Commission acknowledges that covid vaccines don’t prevent infection or transmission and decides:
  
  “[111] Mandatory COVID vaccinations [], cannot be justified in almost every workplace in Australia.
  
  The document – read from part 2, starting P32. https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/decisionssigned/html/2021fwcfb6015.htm
  
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  October 4, 2021 12:10pm
Yvette

Are Ardern and Bloomfield selling especially the elderly short? If the elderly make the effort to be vaccinated, are they not entitled to its fullest benefit?
And with many having been early in the priority, and 3 weeks between doses, do they have lesser protection, that is going to wain soon anyhow?

“I do want to reassure people that if you have already been fully vaccinated with two doses less than six weeks apart, as we have been doing, you will have very strong protection against the virus and do not need to doubt that.” – Director-General of Health Ashley Bloomfield
“Yes, of course, some time ago we put in a six-week protocol and look if people want to stick with that, that is their prerogative but there’s nothing wrong equally with people shortening that period if people want to hasten it, there’s no problem with that.” – Ardern

• Experience from the UK’s Covid-19 vaccination rollout suggests 12 weeks may be the optimum gap between first and second doses, giving a better immune response than when the doses are closer together. So why are so many New Zealanders being offered their vaccines three weeks apart?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300348177/3-weeks-or-3-months-the-vaccine-dose-gap-matters

• Take Another Look at the Spacing Between COVID Vaccine Doses
— Growing body of research suggests robust immune response with extended dosing interval
In May, researchers at the University of Birmingham found that delaying the second Pfizer dose to 12 weeks after the first resulted in a 3.5 times greater antibody response in older people. The increase is likely even greater in a younger cohort.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/marty-makary/94315

• Delaying second Pfizer vaccines to 12 weeks significantly increases antibody responses in older people, finds study
The research found that extending the second dose interval to 12 weeks increased the peak SARS-CoV-2 spike specific antibody response 3.5-fold compared to those who had the second vaccine at three weeks … The team concluded that extending administration of the second Pfizer vaccine to 12 weeks potentially enhances and extends antibody immunity, which is believed to be important in virus neutralisation and prevention of infection.
https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/latest/2021/05/covid-pfizer-vaccination-interval-antibody-response.aspx

• https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/nz-urged-consider-longer-gap-between-each-pfizer-jab
• https://www.pharmatimes.com/news/researchers_find_extending_the_time_between_pfizer_doses_boosts_antibodies_1373633
• https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/spacing-pfizer-covid-shots-boosts-antibody-levels-after-initial-drop-study-2021-07-22/

QED?
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October 4, 2021 11:13am
PeeJay

Was having a laugh with a friend this morning over coffee. Talking about the ‘totally unforeseen’ outbreak in Waikato – yep, that was never going to happen! Anyway, chatting about whether Ardern would move anyone from the naughty step today. Had to laugh when he thought that down here in the South Island we’d get to go to level 1. Ha! Reminded him this is the government that locked down the entire country for 1 case, moved Auckland to level 3 despite around 20 odd cases a day (apparently 1 equals L4 but 20 can equal L3 – complex maths this but….erm…following the science?), moved parts of Waikato into level 3 for 3 cases and keeps the rest of the country at level 2 with no cases. This government doesn’t really seem to be that into logic! He laughed and agreed – based on Ardern’s decisions thus far could be bloody anything today!

Wouldn’t surprise me at all if today she moves Auckland to level 2 with 20 to 30 cases but keeps Waikato under level 3 for 3 cases and the rest of NZ in level 2 for 0 cases – or moves us in the South Island to level 4 because we’ve been a bit lippy of late and need a reminder of who the boss is!
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October 4, 2021 11:13am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Under socialism we should all be equally miserable – that includes the south island
  
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  October 4, 2021 12:45pm
Bobba Fret

I watched the Jacinda interview with Ryan Bridge, and apart from her talking over him, what really annoyed me was the way she giggled and laughed her way through the interview.
This lockdown (I’m in Auckland) is not a joke. People are losing their businesses and livelihoods and she simply ‘smile and waves’ and acts like a school girl being told a joke.
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October 4, 2021 11:27am
- ecco
  
  Agreed she has a particularly nasty demeanour about her when being interviewed by media who don’t share her world view. Punch drunk with power.
  
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  October 4, 2021 11:56am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  “she giggled and laughed her way through the interview.”
  Where did I hear that sort of thing recently – oh yeah – HDPA and pink hair (2 of a kind)
  
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  October 4, 2021 12:06pm
  - Inandout
    
    70, and we musn’t forget Kamala Harris probably started the giggle trend.
    
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    October 4, 2021 12:37pm
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      Lol – can’t see last year’s cancelled Hawaii trip being remedied any time soon I&O – so probably not going to miss anything 🙂
      
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      October 4, 2021 12:56pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Beat me to it
      
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      October 4, 2021 3:04pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Is that the Kamala effect?
  
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  October 4, 2021 3:03pm
Maggie Pie

Was going to mention this earlier…..
We watched the TV2 movie last night ‘War for the Planet of the Apes’.
Extremely violent. Actually filmed in Canada. But the absolutely amazing special-effects were created here by our very own ‘Weta Workshops’.
My partner thought if there was going to be a sequel, Otorohanga would probably make an ideal location.
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October 4, 2021 11:42am
- Frank the tank
  
  3 steps ahead of everyone. Very Andy Kauffman
  
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  October 4, 2021 3:19pm
Bobba Fret

Jacinda to Shaun Hendy: “Shaun, should I keep Auckland at level 3 today?”
Shaun: “Yes, I think an abundance of caution is required so leave Auckland at level 3 until Christmas.”
Jacinda: “But Aucklanders will get angry being at level 3 for another 3 months.”
Shaun: “3 months? No Jacinda, I mean Christmas 2022!”
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October 4, 2021 12:12pm
Oldmate

The cost of lockdowns is 1 billion a week.

A life is valued at 4,300,000 (Qualy)

The lockdown is costing 232 lives per week. That doesn’t include future interest costs.

That is one of the costs in the cost benefit analysis.
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October 4, 2021 12:29pm
- CAKE FACE1
  
  $1 billion a week is only the cost to the government.
  
  You would need to add private sector costs as well.
  
  Also, there are other non financial costs of lockdowns, such as mental health issues, operations being postponed, schoolkids losing education etc.
  
  They should end the lockdown today.
  
  The rest of the world has moved on, and we haven’t even started yet…
  
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  October 4, 2021 12:44pm
- mandk
  
  Ah yes, but don’t forget that the weekly value of feelz and fairy dust distributed by Cindy is worth waaaaay more than 1 billion.
  
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  October 4, 2021 1:14pm
WaveyDavey

Hang on… I think we may have been played by the most “open and transparent government ever’

Anyone remember why the gap between vaccine doses was raised from 3 weeks to 6 weeks?

Yes, that’s right “The Science™” told us. Nothing to do with running out of vaccines and desperately trying to rustle some up from surplus stocks overseas

It was “The Science™”

And anyone who had the temerity to suggest otherwise was “REFUDED”

So it must have been “The Science™” Has to have been, can’t have been any other reason…

So how come…?

“Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says Kiwis can move their second vaccination appointment forward if they don’t want to wait the full six weeks…”

“Bloomfield said at the time the gap was increased to allow more people to get their first dose. “

So not “The Science™” after all. Who would have thought?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/10/covid-19-kiwis-can-move-second-pfizer-vaccine-forward-if-they-want-pm-jacinda-ardern.html
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October 4, 2021 1:08pm
- Gravelroad
  
  I quite like this one – The Queen of Kindness bestows free Covid vaccines on the needy people in other countries.
  It’s a socialist ethic to look after non-NZ citizens first, of course.
  https://www.businessinsider.com.au/new-zealand-surplus-covid-19-vaccines-to-neighboring-countries-2020-12
  
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  October 4, 2021 2:02pm
- septic skeptic
  
  My understanding is that it is best to wait 6 weeks, maybe longer. One dose provides some protection from serious illness and death anyway. About 50% protection from what is for most of us a fairly small risk anyway. The longer gap seems to ensure a much longer lasting immunity than getting the doses close together as was the original 3 week protocol.
  
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  October 4, 2021 2:33pm
  - MCos
    
    There seems to be medical theories to suit either/or.
    As I recall the reason here was to concentrate on getting as many people vaccinated with one dose as possible first and come back to them later when the first dose people tails off, as is happening now.
    
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    October 4, 2021 3:00pm
    - WaveyDavey
      
      It was only ever about vaccine supply shortage
      
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      October 4, 2021 4:18pm
Gravelroad

Lunch room conversation here today included the award of the University of Otago’s Sportswoman of the Year to Laurel Hubbard.
Why would such an award be given to an athlete who couldn’t achieve any result in their chosen event at the Olympics?
Of the three lifts Ms Hubbard attempted, she couldn’t do any of them.
At this level, this must be unusual and questions would be asked of the selectors and coaches, surely?
It did Ms Hubbard’s credibility as an athlete no good at all.
And even if it was more about furthering the trans agenda than recognising sporting ability then that didn’t work either.
One comment here was that she “bottled it” .
Another said she did more harm than good to both her personal sporting reputation and didn’t help the trans causes.
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October 4, 2021 1:09pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  I so wanted Hubbard to win
  
  It might have forced the lancing of this particular boil. As it is, it can all be tucked away in the hope that it’s forgotten
  
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  October 4, 2021 1:15pm
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Much like a certain weightlifter’s penis I suppose
    
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    October 4, 2021 1:47pm
- Ehlana
  
  Does the University of Otago celebrate achievement? Perhaps they have rejected such patriarchal/colonial concepts and the awards are orientated to recognising participation instead.
  Now they just need to get rid of the patriarchal/colonial name.
  
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  October 4, 2021 1:19pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Will be interesting to see if Uni of Otago gets a large philanthropic donation in the not too distant future.
    
    6 1
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    October 4, 2021 1:34pm
    - Gravelroad
      
      From the Labour Party/Ministry of Women?
      Or a big breakfast cereal company?
      
      8 1
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      October 4, 2021 1:46pm
    - wilderbeast
      
      Philanthropic donations to Otago are through the floorboards fact. It’s what happens when you sell out to the woke mob
      
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      October 4, 2021 5:04pm
ecco

Get ready for a whole load of BS from the Princess and Blofield at 4pm today.

Level 2 with a whole lot of ifs, buts and maybes, further stringing out very fed up Aucklanders and many businesses on the precipice. Not that she could care two hoots about business as we’ve seen.

Bottom line is she’s going to label it ‘Level 2’ with so many conditions that it’s in everything but name Level 3, if not Level 4.
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October 4, 2021 1:43pm
- Southern Raider
  
  Every COVID update briefing by Jacinda should also need to include a line graph of the balance of the COVID response fund and another of crown debt
  
  Most of NZ is in financial denial
  
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  October 4, 2021 2:44pm
- westernScientest
  
  and it will be so confusing and contradictory that no one will be able to work out what the rules actually are, and they will change in a few days time anyway.
  
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  October 4, 2021 2:49pm
Stu2

The vaccination numbers are out for Sunday

Sunday is always low, these are the last few Sunday first doses:

Sept 12 20,676
Sept 19 14,274
Sept 26 8,245
Oct 3 7,041

Still dropping, but not by anything like as much
The decline had been linear
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October 4, 2021 1:45pm
- dcrane
  
  The numbers will probably stabilize for a while, if not go up, since covid is now here to stay and will be spreading.
  
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  October 4, 2021 2:21pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  c.5,000 bookings a day plus walk-ins
  
  Not great is it
  
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  October 4, 2021 2:22pm
  - Stu2
    
    First dose bookings have continued to drop, but there must be a lot of walk in vaccination opportunities now, because we are drowning in vaccine.
    
    Anyone know if you can walk in for vaccination in towns like Timaru, Temuka, or Wairoa? Or whether the local GPs are where the action is?
    
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    October 4, 2021 3:04pm
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Nah. I’ve explained in another comment
      
      We’re getting about 5-6,000 NEW customers a day (new bookings and walk-ins). Most first doses are coming from those already booked and walk-ins are negligible
      
      At the rate we’re going it’ll be 3-4 months to get to 80% and 7-8+ months to get to 90%
      
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      October 4, 2021 3:38pm
- MCos
  
  The 7041 is the number of first doses yesterday.
  The total for the day is 27,033.
  I note the Waikato DHB has a low uptake. Watch that change.
  Nothing like a few cases to concentrate the mind.
  https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data#by-day
  
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  October 4, 2021 2:50pm
  - WaveyDavey
    
    It’s the NEW and previously unbooked first doses that are important
    
    Second doses are not new customers and are already counted as part of the total
    
    As of Sept 30 that total stood at 3,382,948
    As of today it stands at 3,407,990
    
    So the number jabbed (once or twice) plus those booked has increased by 25,000 in 5 days – 5,000 a day is hardly spectacular
    
    If we are aiming for 90% coverage that will be 4,610,000 people (current 5-12yo cohort) we have another 1.2m to go. At 5,000 a day that will take 240 days. Even if you exclude the 5-12s that’s around 800,000 so 160 days at the current rate
    
    Let’s dial it back to 80% of current 5-12s again 4.6m but we need 3.68m – another 280,000 and again at 5,000 a day that’s 56 days 21 days to make sure everyone has their 2nd dose 14 days for maximum efficacy = 91 days. All of which takes us to January
    
    TL:DR The vast majority of 1st doses are coming out of those already booked NOT those we still need to get to
    
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    October 4, 2021 3:34pm
    - WaveyDavey
      
      For those who don’t like hearing it from me:
      
      “More people had first doses in the first two days of September than its last seven days. And forward bookings for first doses are essentially stalled, growing by just 5000 people a day.”
      
      “The number of people receiving their second dose will continue to grow, likely crossing 50 per cent in the next week. But these doses were all but locked in when they had their first dose in the vaccine blitz of late August and early September.”
      
      “Rates of first doses have slowed to just 13,000 a day over the last week.”
      
      “If this rate was to continue it would take until November 15 for 90 per cent of the 12-plus population to have their first dose…”
      
      “If those people wait six weeks before getting their second dose however it will be late-December before they get a second jab, and early 2022 before that jab gives them “full protection”.
      
      “And that is presuming the rate does not fall further as it has consecutively for the last four weeks.
      
      A rapidly approaching wall is the number of forward bookings in the system for first doses, which is growing by an anaemic rate and currently sits at around 85,000.”
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300421381/covid19-vaccine-programme-stalling-as-number-of-first-doses-shrinks
      
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      October 4, 2021 3:59pm
    - Stu2
      
      We are aiming at 90% of those eligible, not 90% of the popn. Your 4.6 m number is too high (Dec 2020 popn 5.106m)
      
      The eligible number is 4.34m (12+ year olds, June 2021 Stats NZ estimate from Infoshare)
      
      And 90% of that is 3.91m
      So we have about 0.5m to go
      And with 80,000 first dose bookings that leaves 420,000
      
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      October 4, 2021 5:59pm
      - WaveyDavey
        
        1. Who says it’s 90% of those eligible? The govt certainly hasn’t
        2. Who says it’s not 90% of groups on a group by group basis? Again not the govt
        3. How about the 5-12yo cohort? Has the govt said they are or are not to be included in the 90% A: No they’ve said nothing
        
        So what’s our 90% of exactly?
        
        The whole NZ population – 5.1m? Then that’s 4.6m
        Those eligible including the 5-12yos? Then that’s c.4.4m
        
        4.6m leaves us 1.2m short (at 7,000 new bookings and walk-ins a day that’ll be 171 days + 21 days +14 days = 206 days
        
        4.4m leaves us a 1m short – 179 days
        
        Even your 420,000 is 95 days
        
        As you’re so sure what that 90% relates to perhaps you could tell the government because they haven’t said
        
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        October 4, 2021 7:10pm
      - WaveyDavey
        
        Actually my apologies she did clarify it to be those eligible last week so ignore point 1
        
        However she hasn’t said whether the 5-12yo cohort is to be included or not so that point stands. At which point the eligible 90% number is 4.15m
        
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        October 4, 2021 7:19pm
      - Stu2
        
        Hi Wavey – reply to your questions
        
        You can tell what the target is by looking at the daily MoH numbers – working from their % of eligible vaccinated you can tell the target is everyone 12
        
        I’m not sure Health is using the latest population figures, the 4.34m I used is the very latest Stats NZ estimate
        
        Will see what the daily first doses are like in the weekly sheet on Wednesday. In the last 7 day period reported (Sept 22-28) they averaged 16,964 a day, but were dropping every day. So above the 5,000 a day you have been using, but who knows for how long
        
        Cheers
        
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        October 4, 2021 11:03pm
Bridgenag

How many in Government have been vaccinated? What are the suicide figures?
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October 4, 2021 1:58pm
- MCos
  
  Provisional suicide data is released at the beginning of Oct each year for the year up to 30-June.
  It happens that was today.
  https://coronialservices.justice.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Chief-Coroner-releases-annual-suicide-statistics-launches-new-web-tool-with-Ministry-of-Health2.pdf
  
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  October 4, 2021 2:34pm
Southern Raider

Has Jacinda considered the substantial mental impacts on parents (mainly fathers) who are stuck in Auckland and the children are with the mothers across the border. I know of many who haven’t seen their kids for 8 weeks now
8 2
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October 4, 2021 2:01pm
- krazykiwi
  
  I’m sure her status in the minds of voters is paramount, and any thought given to families torn apart by her policies is a distant and/or fleeting consideration.
  
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  October 4, 2021 5:46pm
Chuck Bird

This is about the radical Maori agenda in health and Three Waters

Kiwi Life – Amy Brooke

https://spectator.com.au/2021/10/kiwi-life-11/
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October 4, 2021 2:44pm
waripori

The police have advised they will be checking on everyone, passenger or not , at Hamilton airport to see if they have a legitimate reason to be there. This is really to see if there is anyone there from Hamilton. The government must not have realised they were leaving Hamilton airport in level 2. In the absence of one of Ashley’s section 70 notice making this lawful I would have thought you could have told them to get stuffed.
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October 4, 2021 2:51pm
Warren

Jacinda and the Labour Party must have not so good news in Auckland from the voter as why else would the headlines be Government looking at making a little easier for Aucklanders .
Funny thing what voters will do or say when People want to dictate how they run their lives.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/delta-outbreak-govt-looking-make-life-little-easier-aucklanders
The biggest percentage of votes come from the Auckland area and our Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern would be watching them closely.
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October 4, 2021 2:55pm
cmm

A coroner is supposed to be able to analyse data and figure out what it means for society.

Here we have a coroner being “heartened” by a drop in suicide numbers from 628 to 607.

That is not statistically significant it is well within the margin of error.

We really need these people to understand stats better or to be assisted by those that do.

PS: Same goes for MPs and anyone else that is involved in changing government policies, laws etc.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/126571873/drop-in-number-of-suspected-suicides-heartening-chief-coroner-says
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October 4, 2021 3:03pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Does anyone believe this drop? Look at the chart. Years of increasing suicides, then one year after Labour take office the trend down starts despite increasing levels of societal oppression, business failures, homelessness, and poverty.
  
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  October 4, 2021 3:23pm
- Cinematic
  
  Exactly. Pleased with essentially no change. Weird stuff.
  
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  October 4, 2021 3:25pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  June 2020 to June 2021. Doesn’t cover the months to 1 October 2021.
  
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  October 4, 2021 3:55pm
  - MCos
    
    I should imagine there are cases where the coroner is required to make a decision and these things take time.
    As it happens the rate over the last three years is trending down after a particularly bad year.
    Last year’s lockdown, contrary to rumours circulating at the time, seems not to have effected the numbers.
    Here’s a link to some info.
    https://minhealthnz.shinyapps.io/suicide-web-tool/
    
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    October 4, 2021 5:17pm
cmm

Intentionally discharging a firearm towards people in a car on a busy road should be treated as attempted murder.

For which, in NZ, the penalty is 7 months of home detention. What chance of him complying with that?

“Simpson pleaded guilty to intentional damage with a firearm, unlawful possession of a firearm, and unlawful possession of explosives.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-motorway-road-rage-shooters-jail-term-thrown-out-gets-home-detention-instead/YGIOSDMJMCVV3WQTFV2HGXBIYI/
13 1
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October 4, 2021 3:17pm
- Southern Raider
  
  That UK cop that just got sentenced for life without parole for rape and murder would be lucky to serve 5 years in NZ
  
  6 1
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  October 4, 2021 3:32pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    5 years community service?
    
    4 1
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    October 4, 2021 4:03pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Only if he was tangata whenua. You have to be muslim to be offered golf lessons as an alternative to imprisonment.
      
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      October 4, 2021 6:00pm
- Rich Prick
  
  What’s the difference between a home detention sentence and a lockdown. Very little in real terms.
  
  1 1
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  October 4, 2021 6:32pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    You would be better off in a social sense by going to prison.
    
    1 2
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    October 4, 2021 6:58pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Many offenders have considered home detention to be harder than prison.
      
      3 0
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      October 4, 2021 7:01pm
alex Masterley

The big question for me after we hear from the PM and DR B today, is who gets the first question?
Tova or Jess?
What are the odds?
Pity its not something the TAB offers odds on!
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October 4, 2021 3:47pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Certainly won’t be anyone else. Those two have the list of questions, and the answers
  
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  October 4, 2021 4:02pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

6 minutes to go, fasten your seat belts
7 2
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October 4, 2021 3:54pm
Southern Raider

The queen has graced us jaffas with being allowed to have a picnic

She is so graceful and caring
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October 4, 2021 4:08pm
rangitoto

Cindy says you are allowed to have a picnic. Be grateful peasants.
24 0
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October 4, 2021 4:12pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  My closest beach is the Hellyers Creek mudflats
  
  7 2
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  October 4, 2021 4:40pm
  - MCos
    
    Luxury.
    
    5 2
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    October 4, 2021 5:19pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  So pretty much we do exactly the same as last weekend and the weekend before that down at Mission Bay in Auckland.
  
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  October 4, 2021 4:50pm
Cinematic

All’s good guys. Levels have been replaced with steps.
16 0
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October 4, 2021 4:13pm
- dcrane
  
  Imagining walking the wrong way up an escalator…
  
  8 1
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  October 4, 2021 4:48pm
mandk

Rise up South Island!

There is no justification for Level 2.
17 2
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October 4, 2021 4:23pm
- Inandout
  
  man, if anyone could ‘rise up’ it would be the mainlanders, they are a different breed. Just look at how Christchurch weathered earthquakes and the often shambolic rebuilding program. I enjoy touring that island.
  
  13 2
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  October 4, 2021 4:40pm
  - lifesgood
    
    We Aucklanders may never see the South Island again.
    
    4 1
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    October 4, 2021 5:40pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    A South Island Party had a go in 1999 and received 0.14% of the vote. Cut past all the ‘southern man’ bullshit, and no one will vote to cut off the money supplied by North Island taxpayers.
    
    1 0
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    October 4, 2021 6:59pm
    - Cinematic
      
      Kinda like Scotland
      
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      October 4, 2021 7:10pm
Maggie Pie

Was it just me, or did anyone else hear Cindy apologise to Jessica……. “for taking so long”

LOL!!!!
20 1
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October 4, 2021 4:25pm
- mandk
  
  No, it wasn’t just you.
  
  And did you notice she gave her buddy Jess, the first question?
  
  14 1
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  October 4, 2021 4:43pm
  - MCos
    
    Tova, as it happens.
    Pay attention.
    
    6 5
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    October 4, 2021 5:21pm
WaveyDavey

WTAF? I mean, really WTAF?

Fire a shotgun at a driver on the motorway and imprisonment is “manifestly unjust”

This country’s judges…

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/crime/auckland-motorway-road-rage-shooters-jail-term-thrown-out-gets-home-detention-instead/?fbclid=IwAR26_vVzL2TTjWiaTDZMShgBlg6Lk8M3oky6E5PwEnSjZaN_JVUPybu2hTQ
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October 4, 2021 4:25pm
WaveyDavey

Ah Covid-Zero gone

How will the acolytes spin this then?
20 1
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October 4, 2021 4:27pm
- dcrane
  
  We just heard the spin – this isn’t the govt giving up elimination, it’s the government moving to the next stage exactly when they always intended to do so. Lol.
  
  15 2
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  October 4, 2021 4:45pm
  - WaveyDavey
    
    A bit like Napoleon’s retreat from Moscow was always the plan
    
    10 2
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    October 4, 2021 5:41pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Napoleon raced ahead of the tiny remnants of the Grande Armée (about 5/6ths destroyed of 600,000) to secure his political position in Paris.
      
      1 0
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      October 4, 2021 6:51pm
      - WaveyDavey
        
        Pretty sure his original plan didn’t involve seeing his army obliterated at the gates of Moscow though
        
        4 0
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        October 4, 2021 7:13pm
Nickc2

Just tried to listen to the PM. Geez, I think I need a kindy kid to explain to me what the fuck she said!!!
26 2
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October 4, 2021 4:30pm
- alex Masterley
  
  word soup…
  
  21 1
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  October 4, 2021 4:35pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Yes. IMO, she should have said, “STAY WHERE YOU ARE and I’ll tell ya when ya can change but not till next week and maybe not even then suckers.”
    That would have been more in line with her thinking.
    
    18 1
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    October 4, 2021 4:41pm
    - mandk
      
      She did say that, in so many words.
      
      She also said, because Auckland is suffering, I’m going to keep the rest of you bastards suffering as well.
      
      21 1
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      October 4, 2021 4:46pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        When is this wedding? Where is this wedding? Has Daddy arrived yet? Is Daddy isolating? Does a 757 land in Gisborne? Is the Army and Air Force on standby? Have the Police been notified about exemptions for essential special people travelling to the beach (which just happens to have a house on the beach?)
        
        7 2
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        October 4, 2021 5:35pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It fucking hurts, doesn’t it?
  
  13 1
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  October 4, 2021 4:41pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Yes, very much. It hurts even more when we have done what was asked for (had injections) and the shift in lockdown is still beyond our control. We who have obeyed the rules are still the victims being held at ransom by those who have no intention whatsoever of being injected. I thought group punishment died in the ’70s.
    
    10 9
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    October 4, 2021 4:50pm
    - rangitoto
      
      The only one holding you to ransom is the government.
      
      15 0
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      October 4, 2021 5:09pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      If you really think a high vaccination rate is the key to having your civil liberties returned then I politely suggest you read some history.
      
      9 1
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      October 4, 2021 6:11pm
- dcrane
  
  Every other answer begins with some version of “As we’ve always said…”, as if everything is always proceeding according to their brilliant plans. So insecure.
  
  24 1
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  October 4, 2021 4:44pm
- MCos
  
  I know a place in Remuera where you can get your ears cleaned in a couple weeks.
  
  2 0
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  October 4, 2021 5:28pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  Jenny from the block, Cindy from the kindy
  
  5 1
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  October 4, 2021 5:42pm
NoFax

So tonight we go to Phase 1 of level 3 which means there are 3 phases before we go to level 2? What is this nonsense?
24 0
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October 4, 2021 4:48pm
- kowtow
  
  As cases rise and vax rates stall I wonder how they can ever justify going to L2.
  
  4 1
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  October 4, 2021 5:47pm
- Cinematic
  
  This is how you stay at L3 without telling people you’re staying at L3.
  
  10 1
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  October 4, 2021 5:55pm
- Rich Prick
  
  It was only ever a name change, join a gang and live free.
  
  10 1
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  October 4, 2021 6:27pm
- dcrane
  
  Math is hard!
  
  1 1
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  October 4, 2021 9:58pm
Inthe09

So thats their ‘plan’ hu.

No date for when I can visit family outside of Auckland.

No date for when I can go back to the gym.

No date for when I can see my dentist.

And they’ll tell me each week what I can and can’t do, how generous.

Still it’ll annoy a few more of the women who voted for her and can’t get a haircut so that’s not a bad thing.
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October 4, 2021 4:50pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  I can hardly be bothered tuning in any longer. That the South Island is at Level 2 is absurd. All these scared people with masks on in a land mass that has bot had any COVID for 12 months. Imagine trying to explain that to any sane person anywhere.
  
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  October 4, 2021 4:56pm
  - jv
    
    No no downward “bespoke” for you Benedict, that only works for more control freak power play not less of it.
    
    4 0
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    October 4, 2021 5:37pm
  - Cinematic
    
    And day by day week by week the vaccine wanes.
    
    6 0
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    October 4, 2021 6:09pm
- krazykiwi
  
  We are witnessing play out the last phases of tacitly accepted central planning.
  
  There are only two paths from here:
  
  (1) Ardern comes to her senses and capitulates voluntarily, or;
  
  (2) Ardern capitulates after mass societal unrest.
  
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  October 4, 2021 6:06pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Or, the electorate votes differently in about two years. You know, how democracies actually change governments.
    
    3 6
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    October 4, 2021 6:47pm
    - NoFax
      
      Or people express their views and the government responds like a democracy
      
      6 0
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      October 4, 2021 7:34pm
    - dcrane
      
      Unless it’s Trump running for a 2nd term.
      
      3 2
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      October 4, 2021 7:50pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    kk
    
    I agree, but both these paths are only internal actions i.e. actions Ardern could herself take.
    
    It does not take into account external actions.
    Looking at the wider picture historically, there have been up to 5 paths.
    
    (3) A leader is removed by someone in the public who has lost everything as a result of said leaders actions, and has nothing left to lose. May or may not be military.
    
    (4) A leader is removed by someone close within the leaders ranks, when that someone has come to their senses and can no longer stomach being part of the treachery.
    
    (5) A leaders ego has gone too far and threatens the long term plan of those that pulled the strings to put that leader in power; or when said leader is starting to lose it and cracks start appearing. Cracks that would reveal those behind the master plan, or the master plan itself, before it is fully in place.
    
    Most tyrants end up being paranoid, except those that are too far gone, that think they are invincible or that think that the puppet masters will always protect them.
    
    Give the degree to which the country has been broken, I would suggest that 3 or 4 are more likely scenarios. I would not want to be her, not for all the money she has been given or all the tea in China.
    
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    October 4, 2021 8:22pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Auckland, you are stuffed..

Looks like you have to hang onto our Dear PM’s announcements each Monday afternoon to discover some new titbit of information about your golden ticket pathway.

Might be time to short circuit her 3 phase circus.
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October 4, 2021 4:56pm
wilderbeast

I’m convinced history will judge the Ardern administration as the most corrupt and incompetent in our history, it’s just a matter of time and the bought off media slowly coming to their senses. Having lived in Australia I sometimes conjure up comparisons with the Whitlam administration, but actually I think his lot were naive more than anything else. The stories emerging today about cronyism and corruption in the judiciary and bureaucracy are absolutely shocking to my ears, in a country where the institutions maintained my fundamental trust and faith, until now. Not surprising, but perhaps the best examples yet of how far we have stooped. And this afternoon we have confirmation that the elimination strategy is the whack-a-mole strategy. Not in any transparent, explicit, humble or dignified way – all of these things are beyond Ardern. But by piecing together her waffle and calling it for what it is.
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October 4, 2021 4:58pm
Maggie Pie

My partner just ran down to check out the Portland Rd creek.
Ducks for Africa!
He’s going hunting at daybreak tomorrow.
9 3
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October 4, 2021 5:00pm
- kowtow
  
  The only people out “hunting” will be the gangsters with their illegal guns.
  
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  October 4, 2021 5:10pm
ecco

What a sick stunt Ardern is playing on Aucklanders mainly because her covid riddled gangs refuse to comply. There’s no real change. Just trying to buy more time, with absolutely no regard for Auckland businesses and the mental health of Aucklanders.

There’s no time frame on anything. She needs to set a date for everyone who wants to to get vaccinated and then open up. She thinks people are going to buy this. No way. She’s just not putting Auckland down to level 2 as everyone else would have to go to level 1.
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October 4, 2021 5:07pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  100 % agree and am not vaccinated. Open up the country and those that don’t want the vaccine take their chances.
  
  Those of us that have not accepted the jab will only have ourselves to blame if we get seriously ill.
  
  The only thing keeping me from taking the jab is that there is no reason to do so at the moment in Northland. When things get dire up here I will vaccinate and have longer lasting immunity than those that got vaccinated months ago.
  
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  October 4, 2021 7:23pm
ecco

Ardern’s dreaming if she thinks she’s going to get a significant increase in vaccination rate in Auckland. You just have to look at the vaxx.nz site to see that uptake has ground to a halt. There are excess vaccines available. Anyone who wanted a vaccine in Auckland has got one. She needs to target her own constituency in South Auckland if she wants to up the vaccine rate in Auckland.
14 2
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October 4, 2021 5:14pm
rangitoto

I didn’t hear about any restrictions for gang gatherings. Which is best to join?
8 1
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October 4, 2021 5:30pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Depends whether you look good in blue, red, yellow or black leather
  
  3 1
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  October 4, 2021 6:08pm
- alloytoo
  
  I was thinking we could form our own.
  
  “Kiwi Gang” sounds good, and we can apply for government subsidies for our own account.
  
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  October 4, 2021 7:25pm
Maggie Pie

And just heard HDPA explaining the ‘Peter Ellis’ retrial (?)
He’s dead FGS.
Hands up anyone who doesn’t already KNOW the verdict.
Nothing more than another…. ‘snouts in the trough event’.
You can bet there wont be another bottle of Louis Roederer Brut to be had at Xmas time.
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October 4, 2021 5:31pm
Inthe09

If Marama Davidson is so concerned about “the safety of vulnerable communities” what the hell is she doing about getting them vaccinated?

Hint – whatever it is it’ll involve a lot of taxpayer money for very little return.
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October 4, 2021 5:35pm
- graham
  
  Luckily for those vulnerable communities, the answer is very simple:
  
  Don’t go out, except to get vaccinated.
  
  Go on Marama, spread the word.
  
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  October 4, 2021 7:23pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

When is this wedding? Where is this wedding? Has Daddy arrived yet? Is Daddy isolating? Does a 757 land in Gisborne? Is the Army and Air Force on standby? Have the Police been notified about exemptions for essential special people travelling to the beach (which just happens to have a house on the beach?)
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October 4, 2021 5:37pm
Southern Raider

Auckland is now bankrupted

Jacinda will only be remembered as the PM who put multi generations into massive private and public debt
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October 4, 2021 6:12pm
- doggone7
  
  Ardern will be remembered as the prime minister when the pandemic struck.
  
  No-one else will be remembered as the PM in that time. Certainly no prime minister will be remembered for handling it better (or worse).
  
  A number will recall themselves saying that Simon Bridges, Todd Muller, Judith Collins, Rob Muldoon, John Key, Keith Holyoake, anyone would have done it better. But they didn’t.
  
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  October 4, 2021 7:05pm
Southern Raider

Raglan Councillor defending the local vaxx rate being 20% less than Auckland. “We are non judgemental down here”

No you are fucken free loaders and how many of the “free choice” people in the region have an actual job or they are living off the tax paid by long suffering Aucklanders
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October 4, 2021 6:18pm
fernglas

I don’t see the point of a road map which only takes you to the end of your driveway.
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October 4, 2021 6:26pm
Cinematic

NZ is bankrupt everywhere except inside Robertson’s head. The ‘magic’ of QE has kept the wheels turning but a tsunami of inflation is about to hit.
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October 4, 2021 6:28pm
- surfing
  
  For whatever reason, inflation has been slow to appear on the scene.
  
  I suspect that corporate desire for price stability has temporarily concealed obvious inflation.
  
  For example, instead of increasing the price of a product, a company will reduce the size or quality — This is inflation in a general sense, but, not captured as such by government mathematicians.
  
  In some ways, we may be about to get by a double wave of inflation. The catch up from concealed inflation, plus new inflation.
  
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  October 4, 2021 7:10pm
  - BAM
    
    Yep, just brought a Masterfoods spice bottle.
    
    New and improved packaging written on the outside, no mention that the bottle now contains 20% less spice for the same price.
    
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    October 4, 2021 7:51pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      You were never going to use the last 20% anyway…
      
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      October 4, 2021 8:13pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Measures such as CPI, GDP, etc, follow conventions of economic theory not always supported by the realities of human existence.
    
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    October 4, 2021 7:59pm
CAKE FACE1

That was a roadmap? Where was the scale? When is this nightmare finishing?

There is just the longest road imaginable, with a plethora of picnic places along the way. Isn’t this infantile? Should we be doing our jobs, rather than wasting time with picnics?

NZ is in so much trouble.

CAKE has had the two shots of zombie juice. I’m not against it. However, the hype the vaccine is now receiving is absurd.

Cindy seems to believe that the vaccine is a magic potion, that will solve all NZ’s problems…

The time wasting is never-ending. Let’s have a picnic, while we wait…

NZ is heading for economic disaster.
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October 4, 2021 6:43pm
- Cinematic
  
  Nope NZ was heading for economic disaster about 18 months ago.
  
  Destination disaster has already been reached, yesterday an example arrived for me at $14k shipped from China. That same container cost was $3.5k 18 months ago.
  
  Someone’s paying. In fact everyone’s paying. Inflation, coming to everywhere near you.
  
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  October 4, 2021 7:20pm
Southern Raider

So Reserve Bank is hell bent on putting cash rates up this week which could impact interest rates

At the same time Aucklanders unable to work and earn a living will have the biggest debts and will have the biggest impact on their weekly cashflow

Not going to end well
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October 4, 2021 6:46pm
- Cinematic
  
  Yep Titanic is now at full steam ahead. Captain Jacinda’s at the helm so nothing to worry about!
  
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  October 4, 2021 7:55pm
  - Southern Raider
    
    She is on the port top deck with Clarke re-enacting the movie seen
    
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    October 4, 2021 8:03pm
Maggie Pie

TWITTER TRENDING

OK OK….I know it’s wrong to laugh.

But you gotta admit – it IS funny 😀 😀 😀

https://twitter.com/Humorsnfrontera/status/1443953572413165575
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October 4, 2021 7:17pm
ecco

Why are early childhood centres in Auckland allowed to open? How are they different to any other Auckland business or school? Or was that just input from Gayeford as he’s had enough of the child rearing.
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October 4, 2021 7:26pm
- Cinematic
  
  Haha! Nice.
  
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  October 4, 2021 7:49pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Oh Dear,
Jacinda’s 3 phase plan isn’t very popular

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/10/have-your-say-do-you-support-the-government-s-new-three-stage-covid-19-plan-for-auckland.html

Poll currently running at 62% don’t approve of it.
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October 4, 2021 7:38pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  I added my vote.
  
  6 1
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  October 4, 2021 9:05pm
Biscuit

That tempus sure does fugit, doesn’t it?

Today is the third anniversary of Penny Bright’s death…
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October 4, 2021 9:14pm

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