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September 14, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 14 September 2021

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General Debate

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Andrei

Wouldn’t it be funny if smoking turns out to be a better prophylactic against the scary COVID than the Government promoted clot shot
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September 14, 2021 8:00am
- tf78
  
  There was a video out early last year saying exactly that, but it was more to do with the nicotine than the actual smoking.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:38am
- I remember when
  
  It was discovered in some of the very early testing – I think it might have been China.
  At the time China was on the outer and their information treated with suspicion.
  Also some debate about how it stopped the virus affecting smokers.
  
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  September 14, 2021 1:25pm
- Rusty
  
  Weirdly some British health researchers couldn’t understand why more non-smokers caught covid in Wuhan last year than smokers.
  
  Doesn’t seem much messaging from our health authorities about smokers being more vulnerable to covid/delta than non-smokers.
  
  Not saying smoking is good for you but why aren’t they catching it more?
  
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  September 14, 2021 2:30pm
  - Andrei
    
    Well if smoking is bad for people then it is probably bad for viruses too.
    
    You’ld think listening to the anti smoking zealots that tobacco smoke is more deadly than plutonium but it does have some therapeutic properties
    
    In the real world most medicine has its downsides – I have to have a blood test every three months to make sure one of my regular medications isn’t wrecking my liver
    
    When you pick up your script you get this sheet that tells you all the bad things your medicine can possibly do to you and what your next step is if it does.
    
    Life isn’t risk free and most of us who are sane are always making risk/benefit calculations
    
    You get on a plane with a low risk it will crash versus the high probability you will arrive safely in New Orleans and have a whale of a time.
    
    There are some people who never fly because of the fear the plane will crash and they never get to Mardi Gras in New Orleans as a result
    
    Life is for living but not according to the terrible 3
    Shaun (80,000 dead) Hendy, Professor Michael Baker and the Pink Haired one.
    
    Thanks to these neurotic people we have been shut off from the world for the past nineteen months to “keep us safe”
    
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    September 14, 2021 3:28pm
Warren

Before I start I have changed my blog name happychappy to my real name Warren so please except my terrible mistakes in spelling and other errors I make in posts as English was not one of my strong points in my Education.
In the headlines under paywall comes the story Government accused of politicking with vaccine news during 2020 General Election.
Does this sound like the Government , our Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and our Director of Health Ashley Bloomfield have been up front and honest with the public over COVID-19 I don’t think so, especially after todays headlines in Newshub, Life and death situations : War on Covid misinformation continues raging as experts blast minority spreading rumours.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/covid-19-war-on-misinformation-continues-raging-as-experts-blast-minority-spreading-rumours.html
This is becoming a habit with Jacinda Ardern it’s always someone else that is wrong never her or her team of incompetence.
While it would not be a easy job to come to grips with you are the Prime Minister and there will always be misinformation, but it might help if you yourself took notice of your message and try to limit the blatant lies you and your Cabinet Colleagues tell daily.
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September 14, 2021 8:00am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Their constant refusal to permit rational debate is their weakness. Continually dismissing anything that doesn’t fit her “single source of truth” narrative only serves to highlight the weakness of that narrative to anyone paying attention.
  Try engaging any of these experts. I’ve managed to get a reply from a few of them. Always the same pattern. Initial response is to fob you off with the usual PR and public sound bites from the usual suspects. When you respond with specific questions that they can’t answer, they suddenly claim they are “incredibly busy” and “inundated” with emails so “I can’t respond to every query that comes across my desk”.
  They can’t respond to any, because their narrative has so many holes it looks like Swiss cheese with extra holes. They are clinging to a completely dishonest narrative.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:42am
- oldfella
  
  Warren, we’re lucky we have such a transparent Prime Minister. It means we can see right through her!
  
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  September 14, 2021 11:57am
- redeye
  
  Apologies if this has been discussed. I usually ignore anything coming from Newshub but I spotted this on facebook last night and thought it should be spread widely.
  The politics of COVID.
  https://www.facebook.com/magictalkradio/videos/242662827726624
  [Do you believe the government has a ‘spin’ when sharing their good news at 1pm.]
  Gawd I hope they are getting as sick of her spin as I am.
  
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  September 14, 2021 12:52pm
  - Observer of Life
    
    Red: Thanks for that. I quite like Bridges. He seems to be comfortable calling out the BS. But how long is he going to last in this job if it continues?. Be warned Ryan .. BIG SISTER IS WATCHING YOU!!
    
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    September 14, 2021 9:30pm
Tom Hunter

The more I look at that post of DPF’s, Biden imposes vaccine mandate on 100 million, the more I see that it has zero analysis and criticism from DPF.

I find that more disturbing than Biden’s speech itself, for what it indicates about current National Party thinking about “unity”, “civil liberties”, “divisiveness” and so forth.

By contrast here’s the Powerline analysis of its awfulness, Unvax me here.

It seems to me that DPF went so far in on Biden that he is simply unable to muster even the bare sort of criticism that he could put forward about GW.
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September 14, 2021 8:04am
- surfing
  
  I’ll defend dpf here.
  
  I haven’t seen DPF support Biden too much. And, even if he did, so what? DFP is allowed to different views from yourself.
  
  We don’t have to agree with each other to get along, it is not a case of inside the circle or outside the circle.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:20am
  - kowtow
    
    I’m not going to agree with or even try to get along with anyone who wants to reduce me to the level of serfdom , particularly while they enrich themselves like the patricians of old ,on the sweat and efforts of us peasants.
    
    ps. I’m not referring to our host , I’m referring to the Political Elites.
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:32am
- thirteenstars
  
  That’s what I said yesterday, particularly with regard to Biden’s hypocrisy over using mandates, which was very low-hanging fruit for anyone interested in making commentary on Biden’s action. Certainly it would not have been missed if Trump had been in charge.
  
  But that’s OK because I don’t expect any kind of mea culpa. DPF runs a big tent here and many strange psychological peccadillos are on display and I guess he’s entitled to his own, which most obviously is a bad case of TDS.
  
  All that matters is Trump is gone… for now. Biden is a placeholder and although his administration is turning into a dangerous clown show–imagine Ronald McDonald with heavy weaponry–you’ll never hear a word about that from a TDS sufferer.
  
  I have the same experience with personal acquaintances. They don’t particularly care for Biden. They are largely ignorant of him. All that matters is he’s not Trump. Anyone, no matter how bad, as long as it’s not Trump. They don’t even like the United States, and they never hated Trump because he was somehow hurting America–they couldn’t really give a damn if America was hurt–in fact they saw Trump as a little too American based upon all the cliches and tropes that shallow minds can muster. Biden seems less offensively American somehow as was his former boss, Obama–a truly anti-American president–was, save that Obama was a truly slick operator as befits a former community organiser, not the Bumbler in Chief that almost daily embarrasses himself more than Trump ever did.
  
  The human psyche, what fun.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:35am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    “All that matters is Trump is gone….” And that’s the problem right there. Funny, not so many in the US are saying that now, especially seeing who’s the next cab off the rank.
    
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    September 14, 2021 9:57am
    - I remember when
      
      Everyone thought Biden was a vaccination to cure the supposed excesses of Donald Trump.
      Turns out Biden is a vaccination to cure the idea that Donald Trump was ‘the worst President ever.’
      
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      September 14, 2021 1:33pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Exactly the same rhetoric will be turned on the next Republican president – who will be made out to be Satan’s evil twin for all the same reasons. One can no longer regard the output of Legacy media (either side) as anything but heavily coloured propaganda
    
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    September 14, 2021 9:58am
    - thirteenstars
      
      They’ve already got their sights on DeSantis who’s being cast as Trump II, which he’s not, being far more eloquent and able to stay on message. He’s also got a good sense of humour, which Trump also has, but DeSantis really knows how to slay with it.
      
      The media will simply use the same playbook on DeSantis and all the usual suspects and useful idiots will fall into line, and instead of TDS we’ll have DDS.
      
      Though I suspect Trump might run again which will make DeSantis think long and hard about throwing his hat in the ring this time. He’s pretty secure as Florida governor and can wait another couple of years, and he’s still young. Though if Trump winds the primary against the TDS sufferers in the GOP who will do everything to keep him out, he might well tap DeSantis for VP, which would be a good move since Trump can only serve one more term.
      
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      September 14, 2021 2:18pm
- NoFax
  
  Imagine the outcry if Trump had done the same. That’s when a I know if someone is genuine or just tribal.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:53am
  - Fletch
    
    If Trump were still president, the media would be doing a nightly running total of the illegals being housed in tents, still coming over the border, not being tested for Covid and shipped into the middle of the country.
    
    Apparently the U.S govt can not account for 1 in 3 of the illegal children that have come across the border. Don’t know where they are. Who knows what horrible fate has befallen them…
    
    https://www.axios.com/migrant-children-biden-administration-a597fd98-03a7-415c-9826-9d0b5aaba081.html
    
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    September 14, 2021 11:20am
- Inandout
  
  TH, Joe is so far gone it has reached the stage where if you make fun of him it is akin to making fun of those suffering from dementia. Yes you can see the comical side to Biden’s speeches but in the back of your mind you can see an old man who is being cruelly used by his minders. Historians will write Joe as the most inept and confused President ever to occupy the WH.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:07am
  - Observer of Life
    
    Inny: Agree. I just find it sad and cruel that he is allowed to continue. His wife should be ashamed of herself for allowing him to continue.
    
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    September 14, 2021 9:40pm
- virtualmark
  
  Tom,
  
  I get that you don’t like Biden, but:
  
  1. It’s not a mandate. Workers can agree to testing instead of shots.
  2. SCOTUS has consistently ruled in favor of vaccine mandates for more than a hundred years.
  3. The Federal Occupational Safety & Health Act (OSHA) has mandated worker protections since 1970.
  4. US leaders/Presidents have mandated vaccinations as far back as George Washington in the War of Independence.
  5. Every state has vaccine mandates, including the GOP-led states that are making a (performative) song and dance about this.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:37am
  - cmm
    
    ” US leaders/Presidents have mandated vaccinations as far back as George Washington in the War of Independence.”
    
    That was for the military, not the general population.
    
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    September 14, 2021 11:57am
    - virtualmark
      
      And Biden’s “mandate” is only for the people that he can legally mandate it for (Federal employees and companies that fall under Federal laws like OSHA).
      
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      September 14, 2021 11:59am
- ClanMcleod
  
  I truly am apolitical, what concerns me most is that the National Party are playing politics rather than sensible policy. Their only response to Ardern is that she didn’t go hard enough fast enough. If I read that right then it will be because they know Ardern’s popularity (unbelievable) and don’t want to oppose anything she does? Take the same policies and do them “better”?
  Are they waiting for an indication the tide is turning to come out with some real policy that doesn’t have anything to do with the insanity of covid elimination?
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:54am
  - I remember when
    
    As long as Covid is the question that has to be the way forward.
    The Roy Morgan poll showed that only 3 out of every 10 women supported National/Act.
    It appears, from personal observation, that women like the cautious, lockdown approach.
    Argument only convinces them you, and National under Simon Bridges, are wrong.
    Also criticising Labour covid performance failing is the safe course at present .
    This policy is restricting the available National copy to the media meaning they have to put Labour under increasing scrutiny.
    
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    September 14, 2021 2:02pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  Biden is literally everything they accused Trump of being ?
  
  Video: Everybody Loves Trump
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKzch-GI4Ck
  
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  September 14, 2021 12:07pm
Yvette

Green Party co-leader James Shaw is defending against accusations of hypocrisy for travelling to a climate conference in Glasgow after criticising Parliament’s sitting at alert level 4.
It’s unsafe to be in a socially distanced Parliament in a city that had a total of 15 cases in a fortnight but fine to jetset into a city with1,800 new cases a day! – kiwiblog, 7.00am post

Will Shaw on return have 2 weeks in MIQ, is a place already secured for him, and is that possible two weeks a paid part of his trip?

“I think it’s absolutely irresponsible, I mean it literally risks people’s lives by holding an in-person Parliament,” Shaw said.

But – In a statement today, ACT leader David Seymour said Shaw’s hypocrisy was breathtaking.
He said it was even worse to be travelling to a Covid-19 hotspot which recorded nearly 6000 cases yesterday considering the demand for MIQ spaces, and the fact Shaw had declared a climate emergency.
“If he was serious about public safety – he would cancel his trip. If he was serious about the climate emergency – he would cancel his trip. If had any compassion for overseas New Zealanders who are desperate to get home – he would cancel his trip.
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September 14, 2021 8:05am
- Ruawai
  
  It won’t be just James either, there will be an entourage of assistants and media accompanying him.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:19am
  - rjay
    
    Good question. Which media have been given spots to accompany him?
    
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    September 14, 2021 9:38am
  - GJM
    
    There are 16 peopel going as I recall. That is a lot of MIQ spots reserved who could go to kiwi families coming home.
    Amazing how quiet the MSM is about this. I am sure if aNational or Act MP was goign for a jolly toGlasgow, it would be all over the news. Really are getting value for the taxpayers $105m…
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:00am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      $300 million when you count in how much they’ve spent on advertising.
      
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      September 14, 2021 10:56am
    - sooty
      
      Media are jockeying for a free jollie to Europe for a holiday! How many of them are going to travel straight to Glasgow and return direct to MIQ?
      
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      September 14, 2021 11:28am
  - GazzaW
    
    I wonder if Mrs Shaw is going or will James get to do the Christmas shopping on his own?
    
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    September 14, 2021 2:14pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  The old saying a crisis bring out the best and the worst in human behaviour is accompanied by then difference between Monopoly Behaviour and Competitive Behaviour. In over 50 years in business I have gotten to observe both monopolies and competitive organisations.
  The contrasts are stark.
  
  In a monopoly systems processes and procedures are designed by the staff for the staff and stuff the customer. In fact the customer doesnt exist. They are known and Those Bastards in If it wasnt for Those Bastards my job would be so much easier.
  
  There is no flexibility common sense just a one size fits all. The objective to make life easy for the monopoly staff.
  
  Competitive Behaviour is all about getting and keeping the customer. Designing systems processes and procedures that meet or better still exceed the customers expectation. No problem is to big to fix for the customer.
  
  Governments and their Departments are monopolies and have displayed the Monopoly Behaviour thru Covid. On size fits all no fexibility no common sense scared of doing anything outside the rules lest it creates a precedent no matter the consquences.
  
  And all wrapped up in platitudes sickening meaningless platitudes that alas those who lack the perception swallow and believe without question.
  
  History has shown that Governments can con and trick their citizens in large numbers with the few who question dealt with in severe ways.
  Only those who understand and value freedom of the individual to question and probe the Authority stand between freedom and totalatartian government.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:37am
  - Isobar
    
    I dont think competition in govt core agencies often works though does it at least in theory. For example you cannot have 20 different agencies build 20 different roads between the same two cities and call that a more efficient outcome.
    
    I do agree though, customer service is usually and always lacking. Here in Christchurch how the folks were dealt with by EQC, Southern Response and Cera was appalling, heartless and often cruel. And inefficient – if you just engaged meanginfully at the start so much time and wasted energy is avoided.
    
    Most of the Christchurch rebuild ended up being designed and driven from wellington, with little to no local input. Fast forward years later and half of the decisions made centrally have yet to actually happen.
    
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    September 14, 2021 2:02pm
- Nickc2
  
  If Shaw was to become a Covid-19 victim [Deleted – Mod], who’d care? Let’s face it, the result would be self-inflicted.
  
  [Mod – the deleted sentiment is a step too far]
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:39am
- Bobba Fret
  
  He is a big fat hypocrite! Oh that’s right, not allowed to use those words, the lefties will go crazy.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:09am
artemisia

Jacinda Ardern’s Year of the Vaccination became her year of vacillation

Barry Soper in the Herald today, including an important example about business impact, the serious cost of government decisions and a spot of smart innovation.

Imagine the frustration of the man who brought us the animated visuals for the America’s Cup and for cricket and the likes, Sir Ian Taylor. He is domiciled in Dunedin. Three of his animators share a flat in the city and they were in the middle of a project servicing Europe and applied for an exemption to go into an empty office. They were declined by some bureaucrat behind a desk in Wellington. So they decided to make their office their home and got the job done, saving the multimillion-dollar contract.
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September 14, 2021 8:06am
- RiP NZ
  
  I heard a suggestion yesterday around bringing the school holidays forward. In the circumstances seems entirely sensible and in the best interest of children and parents.
  So, no surprise I suppose when the teachers union commented it would be a logistical nightmare.
  Read the fkn room – everyone, every business has been faced with ‘logistical nightmares’ but we have to find a way.
  
  Fk these people
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:05am
  - Ehlana
    
    I don’t really understand the logistical nightmare part. It would only be needed for Auckland schools, as I think the rest are operating again normally.
    
    The biggest issue I see is that parents might be returning to work during the holiday with no opportunity to set up the usual holiday care arrangements.
    
    My suggestion – allow parents to split their day, with one working in the morning, then returning home at lunchtime, then the other setting off to work for the afternoon. That takes care of the childcare situation and still gets most of a standard day of work done.
    
    Actually, splitting the whole workforce like that could be a good way for businesses to work in a time of Covid – have two sets of staff alternately at work means if one person does get infected and we need to quarantine their workmates, there is still half the staff available to carry on.
    
    If the morning staff starts early and the afternoon one works late, it would probably be possible to get in 5-6 hours at work each day for each person. It might even be just as productive as the full day – easier commutes and no childcare worries should mean a more focused workforce.
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:56am
    - Belladonna
      
      Auckland will almost certainly go to L3 (if we shift at all) from next week.
      At L3, kids are supposed to remain learning from home – unless their parents are essential workers or unable to work from home. Schools monitor this very strictly.
      So L3 doesn’t make the life of a working parent any easier.
      Very few holiday programmes operate at L3 – and they, too, are only for the children of essential workers.
      
      Moving to school hols from next week – would give 2 weeks at L3, where parents can take a break from trying to support kids learning from home while also working remotely.
      With the hope that at the end of the holidays, we’ll be at L2 – and the kids can start straight into Term 4 physically at school.
      
      The alternative, is that we’ll have a fortnight at L3, – then go into the school holidays at L2 – when the parents are supposed to be back at work.
      
      The argument teacher unions have put up – is that teachers need to have a break after teaching from home – and it’s not ‘fair’ to them if this is pulled forward, so it’s at L3.
      
      Words fail.
      
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      September 14, 2021 11:38am
      - Ehlana
        
        If the holidays are pulled forward, wouldn’t that mean the teachers would get a break from teaching from home – the same two weeks the children are having off?
        
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        September 14, 2021 2:15pm
    - Belladonna
      
      Yes – but the teachers don’t want their holiday in L4. They want it in L3.
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/126378131/covid19-dont-move-school-holidays-principals-beg-government
      
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      September 14, 2021 10:04pm
  - Isobar
    
    It would be a logistical nightmare though – all those teachers having to rebook their holiday accommodation.
    
    I mean we all know how little time off they get already so its hardly fair to expect this of them too! 😉
    
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    September 14, 2021 2:04pm
- alex Masterley
  
  Sir Ian should post the rejection email for all to see.
  MBIE and MOH are to a large extent responsible for the shambolic situation we find ourselves in.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:08am
  - artemisia
    
    Also heard Mr Soper say Sir Ian’s firm declined a huge contract for (I think) cricket in Pakistan as they could not be sure of MIQ spaces coming home.
    
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    September 14, 2021 9:24am
- Prince
  
  I’m sure ‘Jacinda’, as TVNZ has decided is all the nomenclature she needs, (ref ‘Jesus’), and her cabinet are all very concerned about the impact their lockdown has on private businesses.
  It’s not as though they have expressed any interest in Socialism.
  Perhaps that is why their Vaccination is at 33.7%, the worst in the OECD, meaning lockdowns will be dragged out and repetitive, and the private sector is as reliant on Labour Govt handouts as much as their natural electoral constituency.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:13am
- Ruawai
  
  NZ is very good at innovation and the Government should allow businesses to operate that can do it contactless and provide a plan of how this will work.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:20am
I remember when

Horowhenua District Council:
In the past 6 months a rubbish truck and a recycling truck have caught fire, and both were likely caused by batteries.
Items with lithium batteries are fire hazards.
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September 14, 2021 8:06am
- kowtow
  
  I wonder what their emissions were as they sent that burnt offering to Gaia above .
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:13am
Maggy Wassilieff

So, it is beginning to penetrate the Corridors of Power that Lockdowns are not the solution for much longer..
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300406207/covid19-live-jacinda-ardern-says-government-does-not-want-to-use-lockdowns-again

But will that mean, we become a Nation of folks dependent on boosters, and boosters and boosters
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126331885/covid19-to-boost-or-not-to-boost
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September 14, 2021 8:10am
- CaptainCompromise
  
  When the government has to choose between safety and freedom, they will always choose safety, because it justifies control. So if they’re going to do away with Lockdowns, what’s the control catch to make up the perceived safety? Mandatory vaccines? Vaccine passports? Masks forever and a day? Bluetooth tracking mandatory? Level 2 forever?
  
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  September 14, 2021 8:17am
  - cmm
    
    … and by “safety” you mean visible safety. Hidden safety (eg. impacts of the lockdowns on health) is typically ignored because they like clean messages.
    
    The real world is a messy place. Clean messages are always a fabrication.
    
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    September 14, 2021 9:16am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    The one glaring omission in the fake narrative incessantly pumped out by Ardern and her army of technocrats is actual health and wellbeing advice.
    Exercise, diet, fresh air and sunshine. Taking some responsibility for your physical well being.
    In fact, these things are deterred by the current policies. Madness.
    
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    September 14, 2021 11:33am
- Simon
  
  Geez do you understand if it makes Stuff it’s the message the gubbermint wants to get out?
  
  That stuffed is a Petri dish of mental illness
  
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  September 14, 2021 8:20am
- westernScientest
  
  I have tried to read that second article twice, its so hard to understand. Full of bad metaphors and contradictions. As far as I can tell her positions is\: we dont need boosters because the original course or two protects against death and disease, but they dont protect against disease after a few months, so we do need boosters, but we dont need boosters.
  
  Rule 3: “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.“ Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty.” Alinsky
  
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  September 14, 2021 8:28am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    It’s been that way from the beginning and totally part of the whole plan. Discombobulation, confusion, mixed messages – all cause stress and angst in the majority of people which makes them easier to control and we know how much Ardern loves control. Never forget Tova O’Brien video a year ago re the leaked document revealing her gagging order imposed on her ministers. But most of the population think she’s “kind and caring”.
    
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    September 14, 2021 11:39am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Ordering two shots per person in NZ of Novovax and no other orders in place for 2022 would clearly show the governments intentions.
  The Australian Courts decision to rule all National Cabinets decisions and mandates invalid, has massive ramifications. We know NZ had detailed negotiations with National Cabinet on the travel bubble, this is now all invalid. What else was negotiated through this now defunct cabinet?
  
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  September 14, 2021 8:29am
- Ra Henare
  
  Why does everyone rabbit on about vaccines.
  
  We are a planet built on innovation.
  
  There are and will continue to be “”treatments”” for Covid in the pipeline.
  
  Stop thinking that its all about vaccines, they are just part of the puzzle in todays world.
  
  Apparently over 350,000 papers have been written about Sars2/Covid 19, by 1 million Authors across all branches of Science.
  
  Even a luddite might agree that out of all that activity some good solutions/insights will emerge.
  
  Now can anyone point me to the Science that MOH is pushing that says Compulsory mask wearing AND 2 metre spacing is other than virtue signalling
  
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  September 14, 2021 8:35am
  - Charmaine Hawke
    
    Ra I think the vaccine is a classic example of political think
    “The media are demanding we do something, this is something, so we are doing this.”
    They are following The Science but they failed to tell us it was Political Science.
    
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    September 14, 2021 9:53am
  - surfing
    
    Are vaccines not a product of innovation too?
    
    Scientists will continue to improve the treatment of covid… all sorts of drugs are being studied and trialled.
    
    You try to claim vaccines are not that important, but, look at the good they have done against all sorts of diseases. Why are they suddenly irrelevant when it comes to covid?
    
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    September 14, 2021 9:59am
    - Ra Henare
      
      Maybe my english is not that good.
      But I dont see any claim by me that vaccines are not that important?
      Perhaps you could point me to the so called claim???
      I said…
      Stop thinking that its all about vaccines, they are just part of the puzzle in todays world.
      
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      September 14, 2021 2:37pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Exactly, but for some reason the whole event has centred around jabbing every single person on the planet. I’m NOT a conspiracy theorist, but when someone is pushing a narrative that hard then there is a problem with that narrative. It should be relatively easy to get people to accept something that is going to benefit them, it should not require manipulation, coercion, bribery or force which the current fiasco does.
    Never in history has this much money been thrown at something, and always bearing in mind, the real IFR sits at around 0.15%. This was never a plague. In fact, the WHO in recent times have had to resort to newspeak to allow them to run this narrative. The definitions of “pandemic”, “case” and “vaccination” have all been changed by the WHO.
    If it was in a novel by Orwell it would be a wonderful plot line, this is reality on planet earth.
    
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    September 14, 2021 11:45am
- Prince
  
  If she doesnt want to use lockdowns, why has her Govt dragged the chain on vaccination ?
  33.7%. Just saying.
  I don’t buy her bullshit.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:15am
  - Paulus
    
    Oh you are awful !
    – the many ladies of her ilk could not countenance her not being our Saviour and will give their overwhelming vote again next time – even if it is two years away.
    She has saved us.
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:57am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      We are all subject to the KoNZ (Karenocracy of NZ)
      
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      September 14, 2021 12:26pm
- Tricati
  
  I would like to know where in the world is a land mass the size of the South Island, that has NO covid community cases (had none for over 300 days), and is in level 2 type restrictions.
  This is bloody madness beyond belief.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:19am
  - RoboRob
    
    It’s not based around any science or logic. It is a political / signalling issue. If AK is in lvl 4 they can’t have any part of the country in lvl 1. Lvl 2 was probably a push.
    
    Probably the South Island should have gone into lvl 3 rather than four as well. But hindsight is 20/20.
    
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    September 14, 2021 9:39am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    Patient: “Doctor, when will this Covid end?”
    Doctor: “Don’t ask me, I’m not a politician!”
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:14am
- Benedict Yu
  
  No we will become a nation where COVID is endemic. Like every nation on the planet.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:41am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Indeed, like every other new respiratory illness that comes around every 4 or 5 years. That’s what our immune systems have been working on for a couple of million years. I’ll trust that over a new technology that was never tested in NZ and instead was “approved” via a rushed and dodgy law change and used data provided by Pfizer to come up with that decision. A company with a lengthy rap sheet, mainly for fraud and lying. Why wouldn’t you trust them?
    
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    September 14, 2021 11:51am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Yes, I’m resigning myself to a life as a pariah, a leper, an “other” if you will once the government implements its second apartheid campaign (after the racial one).
  
  My persona will continue to be non grata until an effective, safe, long-lasting vaccine emerges and this dead-set useless government decides to buy it. I’m not holding my breath, but on the other hand I’ll save a fortune by not eating out or travelling overseas.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:03am
  - surfing
    
    Yes, really is a worry all those people dying from the vaccine.
    
    Or that the vaccine remains in your system for days….just awful. All that risk for a vaccine that doesn’t even work at all.
    
    Make sure to keep away from people who’ve had the vaccine…they’ll shed the virus all over you, and you’ll be a goner!!
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:32am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Well, something’s going to get me eventually, isn’t it? I even had a mate once that lost an eye while out surfing, surfing. Life’ll kill ya.
      
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      September 14, 2021 3:45pm
- Stephen Russell
  
  This story in The Herald, about UK research, suggests that a) vaccines make a huge difference in reducing the chance of death, and b) boosters may not be worthwhile:
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-just-59-deaths-in-england-this-year-among-people-who-were-healthy-and-double-jabbed/TGOATAGHNPU6VLILHHK5P55HNQ/
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:09am
  - Opie
    
    But how many deaths amongst those that were healthy but not double jabbed?
    
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    September 14, 2021 11:23am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    You lost me at “story in The Herald”.
    
    The statistical gymnastics around this narrative have been astonishing and the use of them to support any claim are probably the finest example of truth of that famous quote “lies, damned lies and statistics”.
    The claim by Pfizer that their jab has 95% efficacy is and claimed repeatedly by Medsafe in NZ is a perfect example. This nonsensical number is based on Relative Risk Reduction without reference to the baseling Absolute Risk Reduction. ARR for Pfizer is a little over 1% from memory, but of course, that number isn’t very impressive from a marketing perspective.
    And re statistics, here’s one to never lose sight of in all of the insanity we are being served up currently. 99.85% of people will survive covid absolutely fine. Saying the unvaccinated are 20 times more likely to die sounds dramatic, and is extremely questionable, but your chance of death is still 0.15% no matter which chart or graph you put it into.
    
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    September 14, 2021 12:12pm
  - 2ic
    
    This article just shows how you can manipulate statistics.
    
    If you look Covid-19 deaths in the UK, you will see the vast majority of their deaths this year were during the second wave at the start of the year, when almost no one was vaccinated anyway. The UK started their vaccinations in January but only reached 10% fully vaccinated in April, at which time the second wave was over. So there were hardly any vaccinated people around during the second wave, meaning the vast majority of deaths could only be in the unvaccinated anyway.
    
    You can check the data for yourself here:
    https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=GBR
    
    Also, a key phrase from the article is “fully vaccinated people without serious health conditions died”. It’s not a valid comparison to only compare the healthy, fully vaccinated with healthy and unhealthy unvaccinated. We know from the CDC that 94% of Covid-19 deaths have other comorbidities:
    
    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/covid19-comorbidity-expanded-12092020-508.pdf
    
    I’m much more concerned with the official data from Public Health England:
    
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1014926/Technical_Briefing_22_21_09_02.pdf
    
    Look at Table 5 (pages 21-22), and let’s take the <50 year old figures so as not to skew the data with the elderly who would have been vaccinated earlier and much more likely to have underlying health issues.
    
    "Attendance to emergency care and deaths of sequenced and genotyped Delta cases in England by vaccination status (1 February 2021 to 29 August 2021)"
    
    UNVACCINATED <50 Years Old
    Cases 212,989
    Deaths: 99
    Fatality Rate: 0.046%
    
    FULLY VACCINATED (≥14 days post dose 2) <50 Year Old
    Cases: 62,403
    Deaths: 37
    Fatality Rate: 0.059%
    
    It looks to me like the death rate is higher in the fully vaccinated.
    
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    September 14, 2021 12:39pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    The chance of death is 100%.
    
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    September 14, 2021 12:42pm
- DeepBlue
  
  Step 1 is to acknowledge the virus is here and will stay.
  Step 2 if you want a booster get it, if you want to get mild Covid after double vax do so, if you want to free-range and risk illness do so… because once lockdown is not in the tool kit the govn has lost total control over people. They can’t force anything else.
  
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  September 14, 2021 11:22am
slightlyrighty

Early yesterday evening, after extensive research (a 3 minute google search) I was able to identify the couple from Auckland who ran away to Wanaka.

At the same time, I was able to watch these 2 attempt to remove any digital trace of their existence from the internet, including shutting down their business website, removing all social media (or setting it to private).

It won’t help. The knowledge of who these people are is now so widespread, any name suppression now in place is simply shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, ironically…..
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September 14, 2021 8:15am
- Simon
  
  The crime was to offend the covid cult. Zero covid nutters will come down hard while the sheep get their jollies. Disgusting
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:12am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    The government cheer squad were frothing at the gash last evening, reporting just enough detail to titillate without breaching any orders.
    
    My guess is the father of this miscreant is not a Labour supporter so they’ll be trying to smear him by association, even though the absconder is an adult responsible for his own actions.
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:06am
    - Frank the tank
      
      Not the father that’s the problem – it’s the mother.
      
      The worst kept secret in professional circles. Trust me when I say, despite the Government wanting to hang, draw, quarter this couple you will:
      
      a). Never know who they are;
      b). More than likely get a slap on the hand with a wet bus ticket.
      
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      September 14, 2021 11:00am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        It was all over Twitter and Facebook last night; names, businesses, employers, and information about one of the parents.
        
        They may have name suppression now, but anyone who wanted to know who they were last night could find it easily, and the reputational damage will be significant. QC’s to do urgent applications to the court late on a Monday night don’t come cheap, but it is questionable whether it will be money well spent with the genie already out of the bottle.
        
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        September 14, 2021 11:41am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        @Tony: as the saying goes, you can’t put the poo back in the donkey.
        
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        September 14, 2021 12:43pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Too late Frank, I already know who they are, and who the mother is (thanks for correcting).
        
        But you’re almost certainly right about the justice side of things. Still, their lawyers and PR people will be doing alright – certainly much better than the rest of Auckland and the good people of Wanaka.
        
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        September 14, 2021 1:02pm
      - Aquataur
        
        I suspect you are right Frank
        
        2 interesting questions arise for me.
        
        1. I ave been told the Wanaka Property is in the mother’s name ; if she knew they were going down there, how does this fit with being a ‘pillar of society’ ?
        
        2. There is an interesting legal question about whether name suppression can be granted by a DCJ (as opposed to a HCJ), and whether it can be granted BEFORE charges are laid. Would be keen to get some views on this
        
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        September 14, 2021 2:32pm
    - Opie
      
      It’s the mother, and because they are horrible, well off whiteys they will be made to pay by being dragged through the media
      
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      September 14, 2021 11:25am
  - MCos
    
    There are a couple of unanswered questions, that make these people less than popular.
    How did they get essential workers permits to leave Auckland and can how can I or anyone else get one?
    What’s the point of keeping Auckland at Level 4 if the border is so porous?
    Why do they find it necessary to protect their identities and those of their parents?
    Why did they hire an expensive QC?
    Why didn’t their parents ring the police and apologize for their behaviour on TV?
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:06am
    - Geoff1
      
      Charges against the Auckland couple accused of using their “essential worker” exemptions to leave the city and fly to a holiday home are yet to be laid, but there was an urgent hearing on Monday evening via teleconference at which a district court judge granted interim name suppression for 24 hours for the two people.
      It was granted to allow their counsel to apply to the High Court for suppression of a longer duration.
      [Deleted-Mod]
      
      [Mod – feel free to breach suppression orders via your own blog or social media channels. Do not expose DPF to risk by publishing information here that will lead to the identification of people with name suppression. First and final warning]
      
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      September 14, 2021 10:49am
      - sooty
        
        Why special treatment for these two travelers and a total different one for two sisters traveling north?
        
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        September 14, 2021 11:41am
- Ratcake
  
  The question should be asked.. The District Court Judge who gave interim name suppression have any relationship to family either personal or workwise
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:13am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Getting warmer……
    
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    September 14, 2021 11:01am
    - sooty
      
      Is the District Court Judge the go to judge for the labour party?
      
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      September 14, 2021 11:42am
- Ruawai
  
  Despite the media beat up these 2 caused no real risk just broke the rules. Wiles also broke the rules and no media beat up and she was the one making the rules. Read the medias language about Wiles all in her favour. “the friend stretching lock down rules by going for a dip” Not breaking, stretching!
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:45am
  - RoboRob
    
    Wiles even had Bloomfield and Jacinda making apologies for her. Nothing to see here.
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:40am
    - oldfella
      
      [Deleted – no need to repeat the abuse. Mod.]
      
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      September 14, 2021 12:11pm
  - doggone7
    
    Now you’ve read the media’s language you’re in a good position to state reality.
    
    Explain specifically how Wiles broke the rules as a response to the accounts which have her not breaking the rules.
    
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    September 14, 2021 3:18pm
- Chris2
  
  Now that I know the couple’s names and occupations I fail to understand how they could have been granted “essential worker permits” in the first place.
  
  After their Court appearance I hope this is matter is pursued, because on first glance it looks like potential official corruption for this pair to have ever been granted these exemptions.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:43am
  - Ruawai
    
    Pretty easy to get a work exemption, just apply online and it pops up in your email inbox almost immediately, but maybe they made up an occupation that is essential.
    
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    September 14, 2021 11:21am
  - Mobile Michael
    
    His was due to being responsible for the welfare of animals, hers is for being a lawyer.
    
    I knew immediately it was a Judge’s son when all the lawyers being quoted were asking not to be attributed in news articles – a sure sign of not wanting to be offside with the Judge when they arrived in her courtroom by commenting negativity on her family.
    
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    September 14, 2021 7:34pm
- Philip Hart
  
  My elderly mum passed away on Sunday . My son , wider family and friends could not see their nana in her last days and cannot come to her funeral today.
  
  I hope the public shaming is hard and long
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:56am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Sincere condolences to you and your family
    
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    September 14, 2021 11:30am
  - The Housekeeper
    
    Philip, my condolences. This is madness and I am ashamed.
    
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    September 14, 2021 5:08pm
  - curry4me
    
    Philip Hart: My sincere condolences.
    
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    September 14, 2021 7:13pm
  - Observer of Life
    
    PH: Condolences to you and your family. I just don’t understand these ridiculous rules when the person is at the end of their life. It’s cruel. Thinking of you all.
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:57pm
- DeepBlue
  
  Without breaching the suppression order is this a problem for the right or the left? Knowing this we can predict the MSM response.
  
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  September 14, 2021 11:25am
- ClanMcleod
  
  This government are very fond of throwing people to the Branch Covidians like Christians to the lions in the ampitheaters of Rome. KFC workers, dob in your neighbours if you go for a walk, oh, but not if you’re one of “our experts”. I always wondered what living in East Germany in the 60s must have been like.
  
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  September 14, 2021 12:17pm
  - MCos
    
    Nothing like this.
    
    Read some history books.
    
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    September 14, 2021 4:29pm
Gravelroad

Being of the rural persuasion, this morning we watched an ACT podcast in which D. Seymour spoke with the Westland District Mayor, Bruce Smith , about the real impacts of SNA and three waters policies.
Got to hand it to Seymour, he can connect well with people and issues – shame there aren’t a lot more MP’s who actually listen to the local taxpayers.
Re the three waters demands, I wonder where that will leave the regional councils. One of the main tasks of regional councils is to manage water issues.
Will they soon be disbanded?
Might as well be, surely, as three waters (if it goes ahead) will be the dictators and regional councils will lose a lot of their comsiderable powers.
Don’t need both layers of bureaucracy,compliance and disdain for rural industry at huge extra costs.
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September 14, 2021 8:15am
- artemisia
  
  Follow the money, especially the jobs and funding planned for the new players.
  
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  September 14, 2021 8:19am
  - Nickc2
    
    Yes, those who are given stuff just because they are able to convince others they have a relative who was Maori. As there was no written history, it’s pretty easy to get away with stuff like this.
    IMO, this is all about giving Maori ownership of water in tandem with ownership of the foreshore and seabed.
    Unless there is a successful appeal to the coastal grab by Maori on the East Coast NI and 3 Waters Legislation pronounced dead in the water, NZ as we know and love it is no longer.
    
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    September 14, 2021 1:07pm
- CaptainCompromise
  
  On the one hand when the three waters gets rammed through central government may as well dissolve regional councils and dictate policy centrally. On the other they’ve almost exclusively already been doing that already, so why not leave them there as a puppet layer of government? It’s a win win isn’t it?
  
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  September 14, 2021 8:20am
- westernScientest
  
  Centralise more and more, everything must run through the party, cant let any official exist without being beholden to the party.
  
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  September 14, 2021 8:32am
- Yabster
  
  link to the podcast- worth a listen.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6aeAOJYaJk
  
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  September 14, 2021 8:56am
- BAM
  
  The biggest problem with National is that all their MPS are well off corporate manager/lawyer types with little to no connection with the average voter.
  
  Wasn’t a big fan of Key, but he had that common touch and was in tune with how most people thought.
  
  That’s completely missing with National now which is another big reason why they’re polling so badly.
  
  I just can’t see any way back for National in it’s current form.
  
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  September 14, 2021 8:58am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    So……in a round about way…….you are saying……
    National have experienced and qualified people to do the job of Govt.
    and
    Labour don’t and only have mouth pieces and spin doctors?
    
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    September 14, 2021 9:27am
    - BAM
      
      No, I’m saying they’re completely out of touch.
      
      They represent the corporates and have little to no interest in middle NZ.
      
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      September 14, 2021 9:47am
      - septic skeptic
        
        Yes, there is a huge difference between being pro business and being pro big business.
        
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        September 14, 2021 10:25am
  - Philview
    
    Judith has some good qualities but she seems to be a day behind David Seymour on every issue. I am reaching the conclusion that National needs to prioritise the leadership team around real life business management expertise and leave ACT to focus on what David excels at.
    
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    September 14, 2021 9:28am
    - septic skeptic
      
      There is no reason the PM can’t come from the smaller party in a coalition.
      
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      September 14, 2021 10:26am
    - Jack5
      
      ….National needs to prioritise the leadership team around real life business management expertise ….
      
      Like this National MP? Former general manager, Zespri; former chief executive of kiwifruit and avocado packer Apata; and former Fonterra group director, co-operative Affairs – Todd Muller.
      
      That worked out well, didn’t it?
      
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      September 14, 2021 12:59pm
      - Philview
        
        Most people had never heard of Todd Muller prior to his leadership bid. Chris Luxon is used to being in the public eye and talking to media. Will he suffer a similar mental collapse once the media try and destroy him, I don’t know? It is risky.
        
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        September 14, 2021 1:47pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Judith is only to be reported if it’s bad. Seymour must be because that will help vote splitting.
      Pity we can’t arrest incompetent imposters in Parliament.
      
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      September 14, 2021 1:55pm
      - Observer of Life
        
        Phil: Luxon = Woke
        
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        September 14, 2021 11:02pm
  - virtualmark
    
    BAM,
    
    Has long been the way. It’s why National makes for a better Cabinet (lots of corporate manager/lawyer types) but struggles to win hearts and minds, particularly in the centre (lots of efficient-but-not-so-charismatic corporate manager/lawyer types).
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:06am
- Loddenthinks
  
  It isn’t just another layer of bureaucracy. It will be an entire government department with a Maori name, a couple of dozen people with “Chief Executive” in their title (think that’s a little extreme? Have a look at Te Pukenga, the entity set up to merge all of NZ’s polytechnics into one giant, bloated, inefficient bureaucracy – there are 23 employees with Chief Executive in their job titles), shit-tons of advisors to do the actual work or tell them how and what to do, and an employment bonanza for brown women in particular. Again, using Te Pukenga as an example.
  
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  September 14, 2021 1:26pm
ecco

Daily Mail ran an article yesterday on Ardern’s decision to lock down Auckland for yet ANOTHER week. Interesting seeing an overseas perspective on Ardern in the comments section… Those DM readers don’t hold back?.

A fair few NZers commenting on there as well saying what they really think of Ardern. I guess it’s uncensored, which is refreshing, compared to the complete censorship happening in the NZ media by the editors of NZH and Stuff of anything criticising Ardern in any way.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9984853/New-Zealand-locks-Auckland-week.html?login#comments
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September 14, 2021 8:15am
- Philview
  
  I saw the poisonous Stuff opinion article yesterday saying the only things England have given the world are class systems and syphilis. The likes of the Daily Mail must be really getting under the skin of Jacinda’s media fan base.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:09am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Thanks for reading so we don’t have to. Let’s hope you’re right.
    
    I guess it’s fortunate the Spanish PM is a non-English speaker or we’d have no friends in the world.
    
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    September 14, 2021 1:30pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Syphilis? I think that was the Romans.
    
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    September 14, 2021 9:11pm
- Inandout
  
  ecco, so refreshing to see so many kiwi commenters telling the truth. OK we can make comments on our blogs but the DM has a huge audience by comparison.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:54am
  - ecco
    
    Was having look through some of Des Gorman’s interviews online. Love his commentary on the covid handling by Ardern’s government. The man’s got balls to put himself out there.
    
    Was extremely disappointed to read that Auckland University tried to silence him. They are just as complicit as the rest of the Ardern protectors.
    
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    September 14, 2021 1:08pm
- kiwibird
  
  A quick look confirmed to me that the comments sent from NZ largely supported what our government is doing here in NZ. The British comments were reflecting the sad pathway Britain took and was clear the commenters did not see the different strategies and the reasons for the different strategies between the two countries.
  
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  September 14, 2021 11:29am
- ClanMcleod
  
  It’s a breath of fresh air to read overseas articles looking at Ardern and her insane policies. The comments are the same everywhere, right wing and left wing publications. But we can’t say she didn’t tell us she was going to be our “single source of truth”! I just didn’t realise she was being so literal about it…..
  
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  September 14, 2021 12:21pm
- MCos
  
  According to that article Auckland is the capital with a suburb called Middlemore.
  
  Apart from that I didn’t read the comments, but I doubt if there’s anything I haven’t heard before. It’s unlikely anyone could favorably compere the situation in the UK where the bug has run rampant despite never-ending half pie lockdowns with NZ.
  Over there they also dealing with some problems from Brexit.
  
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  September 14, 2021 4:47pm
Critical Thinker

I would be first in line to take the Pfizer “vaccine” IF:

1) If it stopped infection/transmission thereby protecting others and could eliminate the virus off the planet. Unfortunately it doesn’t and it can’t.

2) If I was at risk of severe outcomes from the virus and had a high chance of requiring hospitalization. I am low risk.

3) If booster shots weren’t going to be a thing every 6 months indefinitely. They will be.

4) If the shots and every future booster didn’t make you sick and leave many in bed for days with Covid-like symptoms.

5) If there weren’t so many potential side effects from taking the shot like myocarditis, pericarditis, cardiac arrest, stroke, blood clots, allergies, Bell’s palsy, etc.

6) If there was longitudinal data that proved the vax was safe in the long-term with no negative interactions with future variants and no other long-term health impacts. There is no such data, yet.

7) If pharmaceutical companies were liable for adverse effects caused by the vaccines. They’re completely exempt from any liability.

8) If I still had any trust or faith left in governments and public health agencies. I don’t. They have lied, mislead, misrepresented data, turned citizens against one another, ignored science that didn’t fit their narrative, censored, coerced, threatened & discriminated.

9) If natural immunity wasn’t more robust and long-lasting than vax immunity. It is.

10) If the vax really could stop future variants from arising as the gov/public health tells us it can. It can’t. Leaky “imperfect” vaccines like this one that don’t stop infection/transmission can actually increase the likelihood of vaccine-evading variants from developing.

I’m not “anti-vax” – I’m anti-coercion, anti-censorship, anti-vaccine passports, anti-lies, anti-corruption and anti-discrimination. I’m pro-body autonomy, pro-informed consent and pro-human rights.
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September 14, 2021 8:16am
- ecco
  
  A lot of valid points but I disagree with you on point 2, ie your assessement that you are low risk and who and who isn’t low risk. Even babies, children and young people are found to be affected by the Delta variant and could end up in hospital.
  
  It’s the clogging of hospitals that concerns me. It has been shown that the unvaccinated with covid are, by a vast majority, the ones ending up clogging the hospitals overseas and now here.
  
  Also the vaccine is known to lessen the severity if you do get covid and keep you out of hospital.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:15am
  - tf78
    
    ecco, how do you know if it actually lessens the severity if the symptoms aren’t thought to be severe anyway.
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:07am
- Simon
  
  And if you believed in the ro vax you would only get it when they said NZ will open
  
  Only fucking clowns are getting the clot shot now.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:16am
- bennerg
  
  That’s it in a nutshell.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:22am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Sorry I look at it simply. Are the risks of the vaccines thousands of times less for me and society in general?
  
  Answer yes so get vaccinated.
  
  Bonus points. Will I be able to travel internationally. Yes. Get vaccinated.
  
  It is not a hard choice. Get vaccinated. Three times if you want. Get infected. Get immunity. Get on with your life.
  
  If you do a thought experiment. Would the world be fucked without the vaccines? Answer. See Alabama hospitals today. I can send you video links if you can’t find them.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:46am
  - Salacious Crumb
    
    Then send the videos for the Israeli hospitals while you’re at it. 80% of covid admissions are vaccinated patients.
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:02am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Yeah I have explained that before. Simpsons paradox. Of course 80 percent are vaccinated. I can’t be bothered any more.
      
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      September 14, 2021 10:32am
      - Opie
        
        But Benedict, can’t you see that you argue on one hand that Alabama hospitals are full because people are unvaccinated. Then you say that Israel hospitals are full with 80% of people who are vaccinated, because they have a high rate of vaccinated.
        
        I’m just a dumb mechanic but to me that shows that regardless of vaccination status, your hospitals will be full.
        
        Therefore what advantage is there of taking it?
        
        Once and for all in simple numbers can someone explain (either Alabama, Israel, uk, usa or whatever):
        
        Total active cases and split by age and vaccination status
        
        Total in hospital split by vaccination status
        
        Total deaths split by vaccination status
        
        This will then show the potential protection the shot will give you which can be weighed up against short and long term side effects.
        
        The fact these numbers arent being released here makes me think they dont support the narrative.
        
        Almost 1000 cases, ripping through south Auckland in a cold winter and attacking a statistically overweight, unhealthy population likely to have worse living conditions than most and only one death. Of a 91 year (with respect of course) with significant comorbidities…
        
        Not seeing what the fuss is all about
        
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        September 14, 2021 11:53am
      - miltonF
        
        Why do you apply the Simpson’s paradox to Israel but not Alabama? If the majority of Alabama is unvaxxed, then you’d expect the majority of hospitalisations to be unvaxxed.
        
        You have to be consistent in your arguments. Another sign of cognitive dissonance BY.
        
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        September 14, 2021 3:33pm
  - Critical Thinker
    
    It looks like the Alabama hospital situation is mostly due to what I pointed out would happen with the idiotic vaccine mandates during a health crisis.
    
    “Hospitals might have the beds, Howard noted, but the personnel shortages are problematic.
    
    Hurricane Ida has been a complicating factor in the bed and personnel shortages, too, according to the report.”
    https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/alabama-icu-hospitalizations-obituary/2021/09/12/id/1036044/
    
    Alabama deaths with Covid are far lower than earlier this year.
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/alabama/
    
    India is doing incredibly well without the vaccine.
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:16am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Excess deaths in India over the last year are about 3 million above average. So true covid deaths there are 7-8x the 440k reported.
      
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      September 14, 2021 12:32pm
      - Critical Thinker
        
        Death rate in India for 2020 was the lowest its been in more than 20 years:
        https://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=in&v=26
        
        India’s death rate is projected to be even lower this year:
        https://www.indexmundi.com/india/death_rate.html
        
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        September 14, 2021 2:00pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    See Alabama hospitals today.
    
    And Hawaii, as I pointed out to you the other day!:
    Looks like Hawaii has run out of ICU beds as well.
    
    Funnily enough that’s not getting as much coverage on the NYT, WaPo and all the usual suspects. That’s because Hawaii has:
    – had harsh lockdowns from the start.
    – mask mandates from the start.
    – A better vaccination rate than Alabama and Missisippi
    – It’s filled with Democrats with nary a stump-toothed MAGA hat wearer to be seen.
    
    Funny how that works.
    
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    September 14, 2021 6:53pm
- virtualmark
  
  Critical Thinker,
  
  Be careful that perfect isn’t the enemy of good.
  
  None of the Covid-19 vaccines protect you from infection. They are not perfect. But they do a very good job of keeping you from hospitalisation and death.
  
  Note that the annual flu vaccine is effectively the same type of protection as the Covid-19 vaccines … doesn’t protect you from infection but does a good job of stopping hospitalisation and death. It may just be that that is the best we can do with flu vaccines. But it’s enough to justify getting the shot.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:09am
- mandk
  
  re #5, data on the number of adverse events in NZ can be found here: https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/safety-report-25.asp#death
  
  In summary, 11,014 adverse events reported, of which 458 serious and 37 deaths.
  
  [Mod. note: 37 deaths can not be attributed to vaccination; please read the complete report.]
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:25am
  - mandk
    
    I didn’t say the deaths were attributed to the jab.
    
    It could equally be argued that the reported 27 COVID deaths in NZ is a false number because most of the cases involved frail elderly/very elderly people, generally with co-morbidities, who happened to die with the bug.
    
    Btw, its not a vaccine. There might be fewer adverse events, if it was.
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:49am
  - Fletch
    
    Mod. note: 37 deaths can not be attributed to vaccination; please read the complete report.
    
    19 of these deaths are unlikely related to the COVID-19 vaccine
    5 deaths could not be assessed due to insufficient information
    12 cases are still under investigation.
    1 death was likely due to vaccine induced myocarditis (awaiting Coroner’s determination)
    
    Of course they’re not going to admit this many deaths from the vaccines. Nineteen deaths are “unlikely”? (according to whom?) and they can’t explain away the other 18. “Still under investigation” etc, which they will probably continue to be.
    
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    September 14, 2021 11:40am
- MCos
  
  I look at it this way.
  There’s going to be a certain number of people who will come up with all the reasons under the sun why they won’t get vaccinated against the worst of covid-19.
  There’s no point in getting into an argument because they aren’t going to change their mind & it’s a free country.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:37am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    I would guess that a large proportion will change their minds when they see clear data as to safety and effectiveness from institutions that haven’t been clearly lying to them for the last 18 months.
    
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    September 14, 2021 12:35pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Every point you make is correct, which is why no public debate is permitted, anyone with a reasonable knowledge of the facts around this narrative would shred one of Ardern’s “experts” in very short shrift.
  Whatever you think of him, Ivor Cummins has been calling out the Irish government advisors for a year, challenging them to a public debate.
  This release of these “experts” discussing the Cummins problem reveals their fear.
  
  https://gript.ie/frankly-id-prefer-to-sort-this-out-with-a-good-hurley-and-no-witnesses-zero-covid-group/
  
  Dr Gerry Killeen from ISAG (equivalent to Hendy or Baker and another elimination nutter) talking about a potential live TV debate :
  
  “Killeen himself noted that Cummins was a “a particularly slippery snake” and that taking him on would be “a bit like taking on Carl Heneghan or Sunetra Gupta – won’t be easy….”
  
  Incidentally, the wonderful, caring Dr Killeen was also revealed in another email saying:
  
  “FRANKLY, I’D PREFER TO SORT THIS OUT WITH A GOOD HURLEY AND NO WITNESSES”
  Nice, compassionate, scientific response.
  
  It’s why public debate is not permitted. If the case for mass vaccination, lockdown etc was clearly the best way forward the this debate would surely quickly prove that. So why doesn’t it happen? Because they know the narrative would be destroyed. Like everywhere else, they’ve been using applied psychological fear to manipulate the population and increase compliance.
  
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  September 14, 2021 12:55pm
lazza

Morena Whanau.

Haere mai … and all respects to the Treaty.

“Our nations must learn to love one another”.
Dame Whina.
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September 14, 2021 8:20am
- Jack5
  
  Adrian Orr, the part Cook Islands Maori who heads the Reserve Bank, is selling the institution’s Maorification.
  
  “It’s not just language, but how we represent ourselves to all stakeholders, here and across the world.”
  
  He explains there are no Maori words for “bank” or “finance,” but the bank’s Maori name, Te Putea Matua, means in Maori something like “primary gift”.
  
  Gift to speculators!
  
  New Zealand is in a housing bubble, the worst housing crisis in its history. This is driving thousands of young people homeless – now and in the future.
  
  Inflation is under way. The country’s blowing decades of wealth in a pandemic isolation policy, probably doomed.
  
  International trade is threatened by covid-hit shipping.
  
  And the Reserve Bank governor is promoting Maori language. ?
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:20am
  - oldfella
    
    Hey, Jack5, the Maori Party has launched a petition to change our country’s name, including the names of all our towns and cities.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/te-reo-maori/126369919/petition-to-rename-new-zealand-as-aotearoa-launched
    Now, where do I sign the petition to tell them to piss off?
    
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    September 14, 2021 12:18pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      I’d sign that petition if the outcome was a binding referendum on whether to change the name of the country. Then I would vote to keep the name of the country the same as it has been for quite a wee while now.
      
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      September 14, 2021 1:37pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Exactly, put it to a binding referendum. I seriously doubt they will though because it will be defeated.
        
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        September 14, 2021 2:45pm
      - Cobolt24
        
        Aotearoa only came about in a fictional story of Kupe written in 1890 by William Pember Reeves.
        The name written in the Treaty is Nu Tirani which is an adaptation of New Zealand.
        If there were to be a referendum, I’d much prefer Nu Tirani being the other option not a name the rest of the world can’t pronounce and wasn’t even chosen by Maori!
        And it doubles up as New Tyranny which is the direction the present govt is heading towards.
        
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        September 14, 2021 4:09pm
      - Cobolt24
        
        Adding on to my 4:09 comment as can’t edit to clarify.
        I believe Iwi did choose Nu Tirani which itself is an adaptation but definitely not Aotearoa which came decades later.
        
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        September 14, 2021 4:23pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I would love to see it go to a referendum. It would be overwhelmingly defeated. I am not even sure it would win a majority of the Maori vote.
      
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      September 14, 2021 5:23pm
Inthe09

I shared this last night as my first post here but didn’t realise each day starts ‘fresh’, so here’s what I’m seeing –

I live in Auckland near a gang pad, business has never been better. If you think there isn’t a way in and out of Auckland you’re dreaming, their getting their supply from somewhere and not everything they sell is made in Auckland.

The ‘hazard’ tape on the kids playground down the street has been ripped off (twice) – and plenty of parents are happy to now just let the kids play while they stand and chat.

I have one painful neighbour who would give Jack Tame a run for his money in the ‘we love Jacinda’ stakes – her comment on the weekend ‘Bloody Jacinda should try doing a month at home with kids trying to kill each other’. Oh and her 18 year old who proudly told me he was ‘waiting like the States where they paid people’ before he gets an injection.

Meanwhile in a parallel universe another week in home detention is somehow going to make all the difference.
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September 14, 2021 8:22am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Inthe09 – welcome aboard.
  
  “I live in Auckland near a gang pad, business has never been better. If you think there isn’t a way in and out of Auckland you’re dreaming, their getting their supply from somewhere and not everything they sell is made in Auckland.”
  
  There are numerous ways the supplies will be getting across the l4 boundaries.
  
  With all due respect to those front liners manning the borders the checks are concentrated on the the “live human component” of vehicle crossings ,not the freight or professionally smuggled supplies from neighboring L2 regions which is where many of the sources originate. Gang business has no qualms about using the options available to them through permitted activities.
  
  https://covid19.govt.nz/travel/permitted-travel-at-different-alert-levels/personal-travel-across-an-alert-level-boundary/#permitted-travel-across-alert-level-boundaries
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:56am
  - RoboRob
    
    Yeah, I imagine it easy to arrange a drop off spot 50m from a ‘border’ road and walk over and get the goods.
    
    The cops are only patroling main roads, not wandering farm land.
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:43am
    - sooty
      
      Maybe smuggling in by boat after midnight?
      Or cross country on the Harley?
      
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      September 14, 2021 12:10pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Yea, those smuggling on Harley’s go incognito by wearing Gang Patches, revving shit out of their bikes whilst going nowhere and riding three abreast on a motorway in the middle of the night and then complain that the Police are harassing them.
        But hey, they’re good at burning down jails. Kelvin Davis’ill vouch for that eh.
        
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        September 14, 2021 2:53pm
Tomtoddy

Its a grey, dismal morning in Auckland. Its a grey dismal feeling among my group. No real plan from the leadership for our future that one can have confidence in.

Nothing this government has touched has worked. No delivery. No runs on the board. Even the promises have stopped. How on earth can we limp along to the next election? Will the childish, sycophantic support wither in the face of reality? Will there be a sensible alternative?

Someone cheer me up please.
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September 14, 2021 8:24am
- artemisia
  
  Good morning, if it is a good morning, which I doubt.
  
  Love from Eeyore.
  
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  September 14, 2021 8:28am
- krazykiwi
  
  Tomtoddy, you are a miracle. Through a thousand generations your antecedents have successfully fought off disease, famine and wars. So many have perished, yet you – miraculously – are here. You live in the safest period of history with comforts unimaginable to people as recently as 100 years ago. Your life expectancy is 2x that of your great-great-grandfather, and when your time is eventually up your end if almost certainly going to be peaceful. So chin up, sir!
  
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  September 14, 2021 8:31am
- Biscuit
  
  I’m surprised at you, Tomtoddy…
  
  Len Brown, Phil Goff and next up (it seems) David Shearer…
  
  Three go-ahead leftist Mayors.
  
  Auckland is a livewire city now, right? That City to Airport rail link is a real game changer, the Queen St re-re-re-re-development is easily the best of the 69 re-developments I can remember, the inner-city housing high rises and the accompanying bustling restaurant and retail scene are the envy of the world, the Warriors are no longer based in Auckland…
  
  Hell, even your Blues won a Super Rugby comp last year…
  
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  September 14, 2021 8:34am
  - RoboRob
    
    Just a minor nit pick, as a Crusaders fan, the Blues won one of two super rugby comps last year. The one where the blues only had to play AU teams.
    
    I know Aucklands all count this as winning super rugby but really…..
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:52am
    - Biscuit
      
      I’ll graciously allow that nit pick, RoboRob.
      
      But, lest you think I am bandwagoning, I’m no Auckland/Blues fan either…
      
      Canes rule! (Well, they did. Once. Honest…)
      
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      September 14, 2021 12:08pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Come on Rob, he said the Blues won “a” Super Rugby comp, which is true, and if memory serves correctly, the Crusaders were in that comp too.
      
      I know you expect to win everything now you have that fantastic Bay of Plenty coach of yours, I mean he was miles better than Blackadder, but the saying “you can’t win ’em all (hat-tip N. Djokovic) still stands the test of time.
      
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      September 14, 2021 1:44pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
  — Joseph Goebbels
  History repeating?
  
  “It would not be impossible to prove with sufficient repetition and a psychological understanding of the people concerned that a square is in fact a circle. They are mere words, and words can be molded until they clothe ideas and disguise.”
  ― Joseph Goebbels
  The value of a communications degree?
  
  We seem to be seeing both of these quotes in our govt.
  Her mentor?
  
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  September 14, 2021 8:36am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  The Minister for smaller business will be given his sound bytes to crush and cripple more people’s lives, there is nothing to be cheerful about these socialist psychopaths, just that one day if the country has enough people witha little bottle to fight these tyrannical rulers, you will see the arse end of them, not the end of the annihilation of small business. It will take years to undo their carnage. But they will all all great big pensions to live off. Sorry for the bad news, but people start to wake up a fight.
  
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  September 14, 2021 8:37am
- Yvette
  
  Tomtoddy – Someone cheer me up please.
  Think: David Seymour
  
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  September 14, 2021 8:39am
- Gravelroad
  
  @Tomtoddy-
  An oldie but a goodie:
  “Nil carborundum illegitimi
  Don’t let the bastards grind you down”
  And:
  “Politicians are the same all over. They promise to build a bridge where there is no river.”
  Nikita Khrushchev – Former Soviet leader.
  
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  September 14, 2021 8:48am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Yeah, the real problem with Political Jokes is that they tend to get elected…
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:06am
- doggone7
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGoV2-b-6Yc
  ?. (May need an interpreter)
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:38am
- tf78
  
  I had a bit of an emotional melt down last night and feel much better for it this morning. I recommend it! (nothing was broken).
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:17am
- DeepBlue
  
  I hear it’s OK for you to go to the beach and float around….. try testing the waters.
  
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  September 14, 2021 11:30am
  - Ehlana
    
    If you were only wading in the water, would that count as exercise? Since you’re not swimming…
    
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    September 14, 2021 3:48pm
krazykiwi

Follow the Science™ : When lockdowns were implemented on the entire country because of a single case.

Follow the Signs™ : When lockdowns are eased despite 100s of cases, and on seeing people start to ignore the diktats.
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September 14, 2021 8:25am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  “Follow the Signs™ – More like sniffing the “Winds of Change”… or detecting the “Winters of our Discontent”.
  
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  September 14, 2021 8:35am
  - Cinematic
    
    And when Delta emerges again before Christmas what then? L4. Then when Delta emerges again early in 2022 what then? L4. Then when Delta emerges…
    
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    September 14, 2021 8:38am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      When every person is vaccinated we let delta go and it becomes endemic.
      
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      September 14, 2021 9:48am
      - Cinematic
        
        The problem with that BY is vaccine centres are begging for people to turn up and not many are. Hence my prediction of repeated lockdowns through until at least the middle of 2022.
        
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        September 14, 2021 10:27am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        If you’d like to make the same wager as Stuart Nash I’ll happily take that bet, and double the stakes.
        
        From memory it was that 90% of those eligible for the vaccine will have received it by Christmas (2021). I’ll even make it easier for you, and let you count those that have had at least one shot.
        
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        September 14, 2021 2:31pm
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      The PM is starting to condition her followers that elimination is not possible:
      
      “If COVID were to travel over the Auckland border, the impact of that happening in a level 1 environment would be far greater than if a case emerged in a level 2 environment. It would mean far greater chance of spread if it were level 1, and a far greater chance of a return to lockdowns. Nobody wants that. It’s for that reason that the Director-General has recommended and Cabinet has agreed that the rest of New Zealand will remain at alert level 2 until Tuesday, 21 September.”
      https://www.beehive.govt.nz/feature/post-cabinet-press-conference
      Post Can press conference transcript 13 September 2021
      
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      September 14, 2021 10:14am
      - Paulus
        
        Are the two urgent vaccine buys well within time usage, or is this why Ardern is panicking ?
        
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        September 14, 2021 1:25pm
      - 70andstilllearning
        
        @Paulus
        Quite possible – my second jab early July (just as they were running out) was 3 days short of expiry. The vax has a 6 month frozen lifespan. They really were dredging the depths at that time, so wouldn’t surprise me now.
        
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        September 14, 2021 7:29pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    Maggy, spot on. Follow the science was the mantra, now Jacinda is following the signs. However, following the signs is becoming increasingly difficult for Jacinda, because she is in a hole, and she and her merry band don’t seem to have been taught that you are meant to stop digging when you are in a hole.
    
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    September 14, 2021 9:27am
- kowtow
  
  Hilarious innit , exactly wots happened in that most locked down of cities ( oppressed more like) .
  
  Horrendous lockdowns , cases increasing out of control and yet Dictator Dan easing off the restrictions .
  
  NZ often looks to that place for inspiration …….. I wonder .
  
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  September 14, 2021 8:50am
- CJames
  
  The signs are the Labour Party’s beloved focus groups. The lockdowns will stop when they go negative. The cost to the country until that happens are incidental.
  
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  September 14, 2021 8:53am
  - kevn
    
    @CJames… Indeed, poll driven decisions.
    
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    September 14, 2021 8:59am
  - Gravelroad
    
    @CJames:
    Strange to say, but I almost feel sorry for Ms Ardern in some ways.
    She, aided by her politician and media colleagues who have never had it so good, has allowed herself to be elevated to cult status.
    People hang off her every word. She is the nation’s nanny. The lazy and the fearful look constantly to her for reassurance and “saving”.
    Ardern has emotionalised a virus.
    The more self reliant and intellectually able amongst us are starting to kick back at the constant lecturing and detentions.
    I think Ardern must be close to realising that being a goddess is not as simple as first thought.
    But, if she starts to abandon her frightened but adoring support base in favour of the freedom fighters , how will that affect her politically?
    That is the bind in which she now finds herself.
    
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    September 14, 2021 9:11am
    - artemisia
      
      Ms Ardern is much more likely to step aside to ‘spend more time with her family’. Question is – will she be allowed to?
      
      Mr Faafoi was it appears easily persuaded to stay on in 2020 (probably regretting it now).
      
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      September 14, 2021 11:08am
      - jon
        
        Faafoi ditched his MANA electorate as he was obviously tired of serving his electors and sprung up as a List MP in the upmarket township of Greytown.
        
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        September 14, 2021 2:02pm
    - Observer of Life
      
      CJ: “ Strange to say, but I almost feel sorry for Ms Ardern in some ways.”
      Hmm.. isn’t there a saying about making a bed and then having to lay in it????
      
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      September 14, 2021 11:22pm
- Chris R
  
  Spot on! Ardern is like the proverbial “eel on a spear” when questions are asked of her which are not in the scripted format. I find everything (yes, everything) about Ardern slippery and vile.
  
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  September 14, 2021 8:55am
- tf78
  
  Remember during the Spanish Flu, San Francisco smugly closed all it borders thinking they had avoided it. Once they opened up it flew right back at them and they had equal loss of lives to the other states. They should have just let it run through and got it over with.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:20am
G152

Every time they put a 911 video on TV my heart goes out to those who lost family and friends to the evil that comes from belief.
And to those stabbed in the latest crazy here get well
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September 14, 2021 8:26am
RW Capitalist

Govt. lazy or incompetent?
I own a small business
Last year, did not apply for wage subsidy, ….survived.
This year Lock down L4 announced a few days before the 20th of the month (most company’s invoice payment date), large companies payed, small companies had their accounts staff, locked out of their ability to pay.
This delayed payment….cashflow…for me…shit.
Work booked for, what became, L4….cancelled and delayed to this month. ie payment delayed till next month….cash flow…….shit.
Now the rub….
Applied for the wage subsidy…….
Heard NOTHING
My accounts/ tax company (about 12 days later) applied on my behalf for both the recovery payment from IRD and the wage subsidy from MSD.
2 days latter IRD paid the recovery payment…THANK YOU.
MSD send me an EMail….”Do not apply twice it slows us down”
Couldn’t imagine anyone being slower to pay than the IRD….but there you have it.
It has now been more than 2 weeks since my application…….still waiting….
It is a simple, short form to fill out…what takes so long to accept (send the money) or reject (send an EMail)?
PS
Over a week ago the govt. said “We have paid out $1 bill in wage subsidy payments”
Q:
When you said you paid $1bill in wage subsidy on Friday, does that mean that you didn’t pay any money for a week?
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September 14, 2021 8:27am
- cmm
  
  IRD is really inefficient at the moment.
  
  They’re taking 15 working days to answer basic questions that need a 1 minute response.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:52am
- Bobba Fret
  
  There is a second resurgence payment available from this Friday. Get in quick!
  Does anyone know if there is a third wage subsidy for the next two weeks announced yet?
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:24am
slightlyrighty

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300406207/covid19-live-jacinda-ardern-says-government-does-not-want-to-use-lockdowns-again

Really? Why was this not your train of thought when the vaccine rollout was crawling along, and the opposition was calling you out nearly every day about it!

How fortunate for you to have a tame media to hide behind.
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September 14, 2021 8:31am
JibberJabber

Given the reports of the amount of traffic on Auckland motorways this morning, I think we should all take a knee and thank, Dr. Siouxie Wiles for CURING Covid ? ??
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September 14, 2021 8:34am
Rusty

Heard Ashley Bloomfield on Mike Hoskins show this morning giving his “don’t know” answers to Mike.

After 18 months being in the public spotlight is this man always in full agreement with the Govts actions on covid — does he ever disagree with them on anything?
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September 14, 2021 8:42am
- ecco
  
  Bloomfied’s got a thick skin being on $700k+ package. He’s quite happy to deflect criticism away from Ardern if required on that wicket.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:18am
  - Paulus
    
    From the figures I have Bloomfield is actually paid $528,000,
    – as can be seen $28,000 more than Ardern but she gets everything else free (being taxpayers) from nannies, chauffeurs, accommodation, food and other servants.
    
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    September 14, 2021 1:33pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      He was on $528,000 in 2019…
      https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/ceo_rich_list
      
      might be on a few bob more now.
      
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      September 14, 2021 7:42pm
- hullkiwi
  
  Haven’t you worked it out yet? Ashley is a politician, he is not an advisor. So, he will say anything that his political masters want him to say. Provided it is in the script. If it is not, he will be evasive; say he doesn’t know; or say I’ll get back to you, but never does unless questioned again.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:33am
  - Nickc2
    
    That’s why the choreographed show from the PoT is always in the PM. It gives them a chance to rehearse their scripted roles and lines in the AM.
    
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    September 14, 2021 9:50am
- virtualmark
  
  I heard the same interview, but here’s a counterpoint view … Bloomfield just isn’t going to speculate on things that there can be no factual information on.
  
  Hosking is a radio jock who has to fill every piece of silence with words. Whether those words are accurate or not. Whether he has anything worthwhile to say or not. To a radio host silence is death. Hell yeah he’ll speculate and pontificate if it will fill another 30 seconds of silence.
  
  But Bloomfield is only going to say what he can be sure is solid.
  
  Clash of two different work cultures.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:13am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Sounds like a government official excusing the actions of another government official. St Ash was playing Sergeant Schultz this morning regarding vaccine supply.
    
    If I was a betting man the Hosk’ has the first parts of a breaking story regarding vaccine supply….
    
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    September 14, 2021 11:08am
    - virtualmark
      
      Frank, I’m not a government official.
      
      Bloomfield would be a disaster as a breakfast radio host. Hosking would be a disaster as the CEO of the Ministry of Health. Two quite different skillsets, cultures etc. Expecting Bloomfield to speculate on “might have beens” is like expecting an elephant to jump. His “don’t know” type answers to Hosking this morning reflect that it’s just not in his nature to riff on might-have-beens.
      
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      September 14, 2021 12:04pm
      - fernglas
        
        I was appalled at his constant deflection of questions about vaccine hesitancy, which is going to be a real problem in reaching the levels the Government will want to see before NZ opens up. Put bluntly, both NZ and Oz have yet to see enough deaths to get past hesitancy. It is a paradox; the vaccine programme is failing because the elimination strategy has succeeded. All that has happened is that deaths have been deferred.
        
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        September 14, 2021 4:37pm
      - virtualmark
        
        fernglas, I think there’s a huge hesitancy to mandate Covid vaccinations. For whatever reason Ardern etc seem to think it’s a third rail type element of this whole thing.
        
        Not sure the vaccine programme is failing though. Looks like by the end of October we’ll have about 75% of the population vaccinated, which isn’t a bad level to reach compared to many other countries.
        
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        September 14, 2021 7:42pm
Cinematic

I see that Delta has made a few people crook, one marginal death.

Two died in a car crash yesterday.

A surfer died in one of NZ’s best breaks last week.
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September 14, 2021 8:42am
- krazykiwi
  
  NZ life expectancy for males today is 80.0 years, and 83.5 years for females. The woman who died ‘of covid’ recently was 90 with existing ailments that prevented critical care.
  
  For deaths generally, using the latest data we can say that yesterday in New Zealand 47 people aged 80+ died, and 2 children have died over the last 3 days.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:40am
  - MCos
    
    So basically nobody is dying in NZ from Covid-19.
    Is that what you’re saying?
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:48am
    - Cinematic
      
      Well it does look that way. What’s the count so far? 30 or something?
      
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      September 14, 2021 11:45am
      - krazykiwi
        
        Think it’s 28. And approximately 48,000 people have died in NZ since March 2020.
        
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        September 14, 2021 2:45pm
- Frank the tank
  
  The problem is we know from overseas experience that the majority of victims will be likely poor, brown (in NZ’s case) and obese.
  
  Do I want to remind you who are the Blairite’s base? Hint: It’s not expat Saffas in Browns bay with 2 jabs in their arm.
  
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  September 14, 2021 11:10am
- ClanMcleod
  
  This is the mammoth in the room I believe, yet it is rarely talked about. Over 1000 cases of the “deadly delta” variant. One death (rip) of a lady in her nineties with multiple comorbidities. Even the official statement didn’t say she died from covid. It said someone who had tested positive had died.
  Apparently 4 in ICU. This is not the plague. If we reported normal flu in the way this thing has been covered we would never leave the house again. Flu takes 600 vulnerable people every winter. around 50 people a week. That’s 7 deaths every day. Imagine those headlines.
  
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  September 14, 2021 1:13pm
Yvette

Bordering on racism or truth? (any ADHD readers, to avoid an OCD writer, scroll down)

Govt not to blame for low Māori vaccination rate, blames ignorance instead
… it’s not just the Government’s fault Māori vaccination rates lag behind those of other ethnicities …
… despite experts saying Māori are at significantly higher risk of contracting and falling seriously ill from the virus, thanks to their high rates of underlying conditions and socioeconomic factors, such as living conditions and access to healthcare.

… “There’s no excuse for being ignorant It’s a simple message, go and get vaccinated. It’s okay to blame the Government but we have to take responsibility for ourselves as well. The right thing to do is to go and get vaccinated.
“How many more millions of public funding do we need to keep giving to Māori service providers so more Māori go and get their vaccines? We’re saying here’s the money, go and inform the Māori communities of the benefits of the vaccine. But at the end of the day, people are staying home.” [1]

This person has pre-Election 2017 said “… Māori are more likely to be overweight, depressed, homeless, incarcerated and uneducated according to … disturbing statistics … “ [2] and should now probably add “… and most likely to be unvaccinated”!

This person is Kelvin Davis, Minister for Māori Crown Relations.

Might he not have also added in the same context – If Maori are in a true partnership with the Crown via the Treaty of Waitangi, why do they not exercise partnership responsibility? Article Three concerns rights and protection, but the rights surely also includes responsibilities, in this case to play a full part in the aspects of that “protection” – their own protection. [3] Kaitiakitanga?

Just as Pike River miners were an integral part of the safety chain and were indeed part-responsible for their own safety – in as much as they should have observed, reported (flag-shipped) and responded (by evacuation if need be – but on multiple occasions apparently didn’t) in regard to safety conditions.

Rather than be concerned about establishing a Maori Health Authority with Maori veto rights on policy, make a decision about vaccination, or some of us won’t be around when such an Authority is supposed to kick in.

Still vaccination is a personal choice. So is the question indeed, not “Are enough Maori vaccinated?”, but “Have not enough Maori made an informed choice?” – whether to avail themselves of something that is free and accessible to all New Zealand Article 3 “subjects”.

[1] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/coronavirus-kelvin-davis-says-govt-not-to-blame-for-low-m-ori-vaccination-rate-blames-ignorance-instead.html
[2] https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1702/S00255/no-mana-for-maori.htm
The full quote (yes, used before) is “Māori are more likely to be overweight, depressed, homeless, incarcerated and uneducated according to these disturbing statistics produced under National’s watch.” – so said for pure political gain in attempting to discredit the then-Maori Party as well as National, by using a negative “mantra” that has been reputed to “mentally colonise Maori for a second time”
[3] And rather than in 1840 having knowledge of television and media air-waves, they did – more relevantly – have Maori medications to try to deal with VD that they knew accompanied whalers and sailors, and would surely know of Hawaiian pandemics (1800s), and were aware of disease – not how, but obviously accompanying settlers, although Article 3 “protection” was more about violence – their own, or introduced.
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September 14, 2021 8:47am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Good points well presented as usual and as we have come to expect although, Maori are not in partnership with the Crown, even in a ‘whataboutism’ scenario
  
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  September 14, 2021 11:47am
cmm

CV19 will just go away (as a pandemic) and fade into the background.

How do I know that? Well that is what happened with every previous pandemic.

Spanish Flu was arguably 300x worse than CV19 and it just faded away after about 2 years, but pops its head up occasionally.
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September 14, 2021 8:49am
- kowtow
  
  Yes but what will undoubtedly linger long past people thinking of the Kungflu as the plague will be the horrendous debt that short sighted , stupid politicians have imposed in order to save the few .
  
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  September 14, 2021 8:52am
- Cinematic
  
  Yes, this is a fact. And the lockdowns and vaccines haven’t a damn thing to do with it.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:03am
  - cmm
    
    More likely they will just prolong this period from 2 to 3 years.
    
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    September 14, 2021 9:49am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Is that those “vaccines” that are “tested and approved”? No way this is an experimental medical intervention!
    
    Tell the Israelis that.
    
    “Pfizer exec calls Israel ‘a sort of laboratory’ for COVID vaccines”
    
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/pfizer-exec-calls-israel-a-sort-of-laboratory-for-covid-vaccines/
    
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    September 14, 2021 1:52pm
- virtualmark
  
  Yes but.
  
  Yes, Covid-19 is likely to fade into being an ongoing source of head colds, for two reasons. Firstly, because as time goes on these viruses tend to become less virulent. Secondly, because as time goes on our collective immune systems learn it and become able to mount an effective and immediate response to it so that it can’t ever build up a big viral load to either kill us or pass on at high levels.
  
  But for now it is a *novel* virus that our immune systems haven’t ever seen before. So our immune response is slow, and often ineffective, which means it has time to build up a big enough viral load to hospitalise and kill many people.
  
  So yes, it will eventually fade into the background, just like OC43 did after the 1890 pandemics. But the path to that place has a lot of dead bodies.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:18am
  - Cinematic
    
    Not the case. In the vast majority of cases the human immune system is handling this disease with ease.
    
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    September 14, 2021 11:43am
    - virtualmark
      
      Sure, in the vast majority of cases.
      
      But, for example, more Americans have died of Covid than have died in combat in all the wars the US has fought since 1775. It’s the single greatest and fastest loss of American life ever from any event.
      
      So the minority of cases that don’t resolve well is still a big problem.
      
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      September 14, 2021 1:45pm
      - Batman
        
        And over 9/11 memorial weekend, more died from covid than from those attacks.
        
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        September 14, 2021 1:47pm
      - Frank the tank
        
        And more Americans die each year due to cancer than the combined aggregate to Kungflu to date.
        
        See I too can use the tyranny of numbers to prove a point…….
        
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        September 14, 2021 2:44pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Sure. The death rate in every generation is 100%.
        
        But some causes of death involve your own private health (cancer, heart attacks etc) and some are linked to public health (cholera, typhoid, Spanish Flu, Covid etc).
        
        We tend to see the public health related deaths as “preventable” and the private health related deaths as “your own choice”. So where there is a public health dimension then you will see population-wide public health responses.
        
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        September 14, 2021 3:13pm
- MCos
  
  “CV19 will just go away”
  
  Didn’t President Trump say that about 18mths ago.
  
  The effectiveness of the Spanish flu faded as people became immune. Older people were not as badly effected because they’d built up immunity from previous pandemics.
  Māori died in higher numbers from this and other diseases because they had no immunity back then.
  25% of the population of Western Samoa died.
  That particular strain of influenza is still in circulation.
  
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  September 14, 2021 5:08pm
dcrane

Someone needs to tell the PM that the best way to maximise vaccine uptake is to declare a date certain for re-opening the country. Properly re-opening, without MIQ.

That would also be the best thing for New Zealand businesses, who would finally be able to plan for their futures.

Aside from vaccination, Job #1 should be procuring treatments like monoclonal antibodies, providing rapid testing capabilities, training the public, and expanding medical facilities and staff to handle the resulting increase in cases. This is what should have been happening from late last year.

How about January 1?
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September 14, 2021 8:49am
- Nickc2
  
  How about a no vaccination, no Govt benefits policy?
  Yes, I’m aware vaccines are optional but benefits are not compulsory either.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:05am
- NoFax
  
  We could have 1 December or even earlier. It’s all over, no restrictions at all.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:06am
  - Stu2
    
    You have to allow the last people vaccinated time to get their second jab, so Jan probably more likely
    
    Working forward 75 days (to the start of Dec) from the vaccine deliveries on Sunday :
    
    Daily average … % eligible popn
    doses … with two doses
    40,000 … 87%
    45,000 … 92%
    50,000 … 96%
    
    We wouldn’t get quite that high by Dec due to people waiting for a second dose, but everyone who wanted two doses could have them by the start of Jan
    
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    September 14, 2021 11:09am
- virtualmark
  
  I think you’ll find that will be what happens.
  
  Once 75%-ish of the population is double-jabbed then the public pressure to re-open will be impossible for a democratic government to resist. And the vaccinated majority will have little patience with the non-vaccinated.
  
  But probably more like April next year rather than January.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:24am
- alloytoo
  
  Problem I think is that they have wasted $50 Billion and not spent any of it on increasing health care capacity.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:32am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Yep govt is forcing all NZers to stump up another $10k each (in reality $0 from majority and many times as much from actual tax payers) for a really shit holiday that a large proportion of us are having to work through as well (lockdown).
    
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    September 14, 2021 12:42pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  All they have to do is closely study what Sweden did and tweak the very few mistakes they made. Treat people like adults. Ardern can’t do that, she’s too fond of playing Madonna, and not the fun one.
  
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  September 14, 2021 1:17pm
dannz

Looks like those vaccines are actually working quite well: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-just-59-deaths-in-england-this-year-among-people-who-were-healthy-and-double-jabbed/TGOATAGHNPU6VLILHHK5P55HNQ/
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September 14, 2021 8:54am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Take all statistics with a copious measure of sodium. They can tell any story you want them to tell. In Israel 90% of hospital cases are fully jabbed. They now no longer consider those double jabbed as vaxxed, they are doing a 3rd shot and have already announced dates for starting the 4th. Insanity, doing the same thing over and over…….
  
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  September 14, 2021 1:21pm
- miltonF
  
  I would be surprised if healthy people were dying from covid, vaccinated or not. How many unhealthy double jabbed people died? And how many healthy unvaccinated people died? Curiously missing from the headline.
  
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  September 14, 2021 3:54pm
Critical Thinker

The government can’t give you freedom. It can only infringe upon it.

During COVID, the government and mainstream media have conditioned us to think of others as clean and unclean:
1) careful / reckless
2) masked / unmasked
3) uninfected / infected
4) vaxxed / unvaxxed
5) boosted / unboosted (soon)

The protected need to be protected from the unprotected by forcing the unprotected to use the protection that didn’t protect the protected.

Does anyone else feel like the world is literally gone insane? ?
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September 14, 2021 8:59am
- RW Capitalist
  
  AAAHHH….the very essence of Goebbels propaganda.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:19am
- Yvette
  
  Critical Thinker
  Likewise – ”There are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say, we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don’t know we don’t know.” – Donald Rumsfeld, then-Secretary of Defence
  
  … the reason some choose to be unvaccinated.
  It is the reason an elderly man I knew would not take any medication which hadn’t been around for 30 years, already. He is now dead.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:40am
- westernScientest
  
  Stage 4. DEHUMANIZATION: One group denies the humanity of the other group. Members of it are equated with animals, vermin, insects or diseases. ….. They are indoctrinated to believe that “We are better off without them.” ….. They are equated with filth, impurity, and immorality.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:54am
- kowtow
  
  Insane or as Orwell had it in Animal Farm when the Pigs came out walking on two legs and the other animals felt as if the world had been turned upside down .
  
  Well it has been . Blofeld can stand at the Podium of Truth and declare that swimming is not swimming .
  
  And yesterday she had the temerity to reply to a reporter who challenged her about the lockdown extension , he said you said this would be “short and sharp” and she basically said that short and sharp does not actually mean short !
  
  And the Media pack let her get away with that , where’s the outrage , the fact checking , the ridiculing that anyone else would be subject to , other than St Jax of the Vax.
  
  Practically the whole of the Media have gone onside with govt dictat and I’d like to post this comment from BBH ,Media Greedies ,which I think sums things up very neatly , and it is frightening where we are at ;
  
  “It is not hyperbole to observe that New Zealand now exhibits most of the hallmarks of a soft totalitarian state, including a well-paid media tasked with providing positive coverage of The Regime, while censoring dissent. This is descriptive. In such a situation, we cannot unironically call ourselves a “democracy” in any real sense of the word, as that entails a free flow of information to the voter. “
  
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  September 14, 2021 12:15pm
Belinda

Does anyone know if there is an official English language week penciled in for next year.
Would be something to look forward to, imagine picking up your newspaper, or listening to weather forecasts, watching the news and be able to understand every word.
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September 14, 2021 9:01am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  I would suspect that there are more New Zealanders who speak fluent Chinese than those who speak fluent Maori.
  When are we going to have a Chinese language week?
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:05am
  - alloytoo
    
    Great idea.
    
    I would rather have something that required a complete translation than something written in English and scattered with non-English words where everything has to be inferred from context.
    
    Problem is, where English often has 3 to 4 words for something, pre-industrial languages have one word which have been stretched to mean 3-4 things.
    
    The resulting miss-mash does neither language any good, and most certainly does nothing to preserve the pre-Industrial language, and undermines English’s usefulness as global language.
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:45am
  - oldfella
    
    Capt, I suspect their are more New Zealanders who speak fluent Tongan, or Samoan, than speak fluent Maori. How about a week each for them as well?
    
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    September 14, 2021 12:31pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      When are we going to have a Chinese Language Week?
      
      In a couple of weeks…26 Sept-2nd October. (Also Tuvalu Language Week)
      
      Samoan Language Week: 30May-5 June
      Tongan Language Week: Was last week
      
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      September 14, 2021 2:40pm
      - MCos
        
        https://www.twinkl.co.nz/event/chinese-language-week-2021
        
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        September 14, 2021 5:12pm
- Nickc2
  
  Question without notice to the PM perhaps? I’d love to see that! Squirm . . . . . squirm.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:09am
- Paulus
  
  Nah – Maori RNZ with verbal subtitles, like now.
  Told Shortland Street now has Maori subtitles.
  
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  September 14, 2021 1:37pm
Aunty

Question:- Should foreigners who are living, working, or studying in New Zealand on temporary residency visas be required to get, or have, the vaccine?

In other words, foreigners need to get vaccinated or else their visas will be cancelled.
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September 14, 2021 9:03am
- alloytoo
  
  Perhaps we should enlist the Unions.
  
  Vaccinate or lose your Union Membership?
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:46am
BeaB

Is TVNZ totally tin-eared? Last night we had Wendy wittering on about not being able to get a latte. Then their Christchurch reporter gave an emotional speech of thanks to Aucklanders. The whole news was an unending gush of government propaganda.
No mention of the appalling hardship so many people are suffering because of lockdown. From mothers trapped in slummy motel rooms with their kids to desperate business owners.
NZ is in a dreadful state. We may have dodged COVID but there is a tsunami of social and economic disasters on its way towards us.
But TVNZ and Radio NZ prattle on about lattes and takeaways and talk smugly about how it’s all right for them because they have nice comfortable houses.
It makes me sick.
Terrible human suffering in NZ and our media silent or trotting out paid-for PR for a shamefully callous government.
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September 14, 2021 9:06am
- Prince
  
  Sorry, but if you watch this bullshit you are part of the problem.
  Viewership is all they care about. Stop watching = less money from ads = eventually someone in authority might decide to add some political diversity to their coverage.
  First step is turn it off.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:12am
- Jack5
  
  …Wendy wittering on about not being able to get a latte. …
  
  So that’s what it was!
  
  A neighbour, slightly deaf, and with hearing aids laid aside because during the working day they get entangled with his face mask, reckons Wendy said something really startling.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:32am
Frank the tank

Anyone else notice through the woke symbolism and language that there now appears an element of panic from our dear PM, the deputy and the government. Ironically St Ash didn’t get the message but one-trackers never do.

It’s clear Grunter is getting the smoke signals from business loud and clear. Of course him and Beetroot can’t impregnate the property market to get out of the mess this time.

Naturally the useful idiots such as Heir and Dann are trotted out with their “insightful, backwards looking logic” around demand looking rock solid.
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September 14, 2021 9:08am
Blackbob

The “Spanish flu” virus no longer exists so it doesn’t “pops its head up occasionally” The contemporary flu virus’s today contain elements of it but are just continuous mutations of the same common flu virus that changes over the years.
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September 14, 2021 9:08am
- Charmaine Hawke
  
  Exactly, our common cold today started life in 1889 as The Russian Flu which killed just over 1 million in a world wide population of 1.5 Billion.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:11am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Evolutionary biologists speculate that those young people exposed to the Russian Flu were the older cohort who later did relatively well surviving the Spanish flu. In contrast the ‘young’ – in this case anyone born after 1889 – had unprimed immune systems when 1918 rolled around, and they were harvested in droves.
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:43am
- cmm
  
  The Spanish Flu virus was H1N1 aka Swine Flu, though it has obviously mutated since then.
  
  It most certainly lives on:
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_A_virus_subtype_H1N1
  
  The same will happen with Sars_Cov_2.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:29am
SmokerGuy

This government has got away with a lot of bullshit and non delivery but it is now finally starting to unravel. You can’t keep spinning and bullshitting forever, eventually it’ll catch up with you and this is now happening. I have some sympathy for them having to go through the pandemic but they’ve done themselves no favours with how they’ve constantly treated us all like idiots. People aren’t stupid and Ardern talking to us like we are 5 year olds in infuriating.
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September 14, 2021 9:14am
- Prince
  
  One simple question to Ardern.
  Why are we only at 33.7% fully vaccinated ?
  No obfuscation, waffle etc. Just a simple question. Keep asking until you get an answer.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:09am
  - oldfella
    
    Come on, Prince. They’re ahead of their target.
    What was it? Paketawhinau?
    
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    September 14, 2021 12:36pm
  - MCos
    
    NZ has administered 50% of the jabs required to vaccinate the entire eligible population.
    I would suggest sometime next month everyone that wants one will have at least one jab. Then it takes six weeks to wrap it up.
    
    Theoretically
    
    Then there’ll be hold outs who opt in; leaving those who will never be jabbed for whatever reason.
    
    The big decision after that, I’m predicting, won’t be over further lockdowns, but what to do about unvaccinated people who need to bump other patients for ICU beds.
    
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    September 14, 2021 5:37pm
Critical Thinker

BREAKING: Israeli Health Ministers – “Vaccine Passport Has No Medical Justification”

Israeli Minister of Health and Minister of Interior caught on mic saying that Green Pass restrictions unjustified medically, but rather serve to pressure unvaxxed.

Footage reveals that government ministers don’t actually believe there is medical justification for some Green Pass restrictions currently in place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp7Typ9LFnw

The footage shows Ministers Ayelet Shaked and Nitzan Horowitz having a conversation, unaware that the microphone is capturing their remarks.

“I also think that you can remove the Green Pass for restaurants outside,” Shaked says.

“Pools, too, not just restaurants,” Horowitz responds. “Epidemiologically, that is correct.”

“Correct,” Shaked concurs.
https://www.jns.org/caught-on-hot-mic-israeli-health-minister-says-green-pass-not-based-on-epidemiology/
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September 14, 2021 9:15am
- cmm
  
  The science is dodgy behind pretty much everything:
  * Masks
  * Social distancing
  * …
  
  Some of my customers are contemplating really whacky policies like:
  * Vaccinated employees do not need to wear masks, unvaccinated have to.
  * Social distancing (& masks) required for walking past people in corridors for a few seconds. It is OK to sit next to someone, maskless, over lunch/teabreak.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:47am
Ruawai

Watch this TV3 interview (especially from 4:45mins) from this morning when Ryan Bridge ask the PM why we are in lock down, she replies it is because of low vaccination rates. Here I was thinking we were locked down so Covid didn’t spread but turns out we are locked down because her Government didn’t vaccinate us in March so no risk in mingling with your neighbours especially in a safe suburb where many are already vaccinated.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/coronavirus-jacinda-ardern-explains-why-she-won-t-set-a-vaccination-target-to-end-lockdowns.html
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September 14, 2021 9:16am
- thirteenstars
  
  Oh, she’s lying there, too.
  
  Does anyone seriously think that when we hit 70% lockdowns will magically disappear?
  
  Of course they won’t. Any outbreak will be met with lockdowns no matter the vax rate.
  
  The next piece of social engineering will be once the vax rate goes over 50% because then the unvaccinated can be safely demonised because they’ll be in the minority. At the moment it’s all encouragement and aroha; soon enough it’ll be vilification and utu.
  
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  September 14, 2021 9:52am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Quite. Viruses do not cause lockdowns, and vaccination rates do not prevent them.
    
    These CCP-inspired interventions are thoroughly toxic to liberal democracies, net detrimental to the welfare of societies … and yet welcomed because we’ve been been painstakingly scared witless by a constant stream of psuedo-science powered fear-porn.
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:27am
    - Nickc2
      
      Yep, the virus is doing what it was designed to do. It’s pretty easy to buy a country and its population complete with infrastructure when it’s bankrupt.
      
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      September 14, 2021 2:23pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  I saw a map of Auckland highlighting the suburbs where the outbreaks are concentrated. You know which ones I’m talking about.
  And Maori/PI seem reluctant to get vaccinated, despite all the publicity imploring them to do so.
  Join the dots ……………………..
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:22am
  - alloytoo
    
    There’s a cultural element here, many PI families are extended with multiple generations under one roof, where as European Kiwis and other immigrants have far more nuclear families.
    
    The extended family has many benefits, but also lends itself to Covid spread.
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:53am
    - Jack5
      
      Perhaps the living style in the Pacific Islands contributed to their high death toll in the 1918 flu, a death toll Samoans sometimes blame New Zealand for.
      
      More communal living, keen churchgoers, outgoing personalities.
      
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      September 14, 2021 2:30pm
  - Paulus
    
    Need to ask how many of the PI Church leaders in Auckland, who are members of the Labour Party PI Committee, have been vaccinated themselves – hear might be an interesting answer.
    
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    September 14, 2021 1:41pm
- Nickc2
  
  IMO, she’s a fucking lier! My second vaccination booking was canceled because there was insufficient vaccine. It had all been diverted to others deemed to be more in need.
  
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  September 14, 2021 2:15pm
  - alloytoo
    
    Mine was cancelled so they could redeploy the staff to testing.
    Didn’t actually bother to tell me until the day, after sending out all reminders the day before.
    
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    September 14, 2021 4:08pm
Littletramp

Here’s the problem they face selling the vaccine to ordinary folk like me.
There is zero talk or advice from the Health Ministry or Prime Minister about treatments recommended for symptons or once you get a positive covid test, and I presume get taken away to MIQ. In fact, all the effort is focused on making sure you don’t use anything that is suggested, apart from getting a vaccine – any vaccine.
https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-health-advice-public/caring-yourself-and-others-who-have-or-may-have-covid-19-home
The web page (linked here) for how to treat yourself at home says open the window & wash your hands! Then what – wait to die?
How are the doctors treating cases? All we hear are vaccines, vaccines, vaccines and they don’t seem remotely interested in remedy for the sick. Just in counting “positive” cases to proudly announce to the media and scare us into doing whatever they (politicians) suggest.
Anyone know why no discussion or urgency about treatment?
Is it because most people (99% ish) just get over it?
That’s the assumption we have to make unless given more specific information & that’s why I believe they are having trouble selling the vaccine.
It’s not a vaccine in any way other than name because you still catch the virus and pass it on, it’s a defence against the virus, but no one yet knows (they don’t even know) if vaccination comes with a cost to future health.
Media need to do better analysis and drill harder on these politicians to allow some informed decision making.
Until then, the safest path for Joe Public is just to sit back, wait and watch?
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September 14, 2021 9:21am
- Ian Boag
  
  Then what – wait to die?
  
  Or (more likely) wait to get better ….
  
  There are (only) three things you can do to manage a viral pandemic
  
  a) Isolation
  b) Antivirals
  c) Vaccine
  
  The likes of dexmethasone are anti-inflammatories which may lessen the impact of the virus on seriously affected people. Not a “cure” …
  
  The problem is that there aren’t any antivirals that work. Some people believe ivermectin is an antiviral, but the jury is still out.
  
  There are well understood problems with isolation.
  
  So that’s the problem.
  
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  December 14, 2020 9:36am
  - Littletramp
    
    Thanks Ian.
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:15am
  - Salacious Crumb
    
    So Ian what are the treatment protocols in NZ for the treatment of those suffering the effects of C-19?
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:51am
- virtualmark
  
  1. There are no silver bullet treatments for Covid. Oxygen, a few drugs (like dexamethasone) to dampen the worst symptoms, but basically it’s up to your immune system to pull you through.
  
  2. If there was a silver bullet treatment for Covid then why would you trust that any more than you seem to (not) trust vaccines? I mean it all comes from the same pharma industry right? And is recommended by the same doctors? Why would they be right about the silver bullet treatment but wrong about the vaccines???
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:29am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    When taken early anti-viral throat gargles Betadine and Carragelose have both been shown to be highly effective against Covid in testing. Vit C, Vit D, Zinc, Quercetin and Curcumin (both inflamation inhibitors) all look to be pretty effective too. There appears to be no down side to using these meds (or ivermectin if you can get it), and highly likely a lot of risk reduction if you do use them.
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:59am
    - virtualmark
      
      Can I suggest that if all it took to treat Covid was some throat gargling and a few vitamins then they wouldn’t be admitting people into hospital, let alone putting them in ICUs?
      
      I get the “no down side” argument. Sure, it can’t hurt to take some vitamins and zinc.
      
      But the mortality stats suggest there’s more to it than that.
      
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      September 14, 2021 12:09pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        https://c19early.com/
        You have to start using these drugs early to maximise benefit. At or before infection (prophylaxis) for greatest benefit, after hospitalisation is just stupidly late, the time to hit it is during the exponential growth stage in first few days after infection. Trials suggest up to 80% or more reduction in mortality using these over the counter treatments (could even be more if they have cumulative benefit). Vaccines are still better, but it doesn’t have to be an ‘or’. It should be an ‘and’.
        
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        September 14, 2021 1:58pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      I’m currently taking Zinc, Vit.C and Vit. D3. I have ordered my Ivermectin (Stromecol) on line, & expect to have it in about 10 days. The I’ll wait for the Novavax which is due sometime Dec./Jan.
      If however, I happen to get the Delta, I won’t bother with the Novavax – so roll on Delta. 🙂
      
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      September 14, 2021 12:19pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Don,
        
        There is no guarantee that NZ will vaccinate people with Novavax. We have (a lot of) it on order. It may be used as a booster. But there are no guarantees the Government will ever offer it as a lead vaccine.
        
        The marginal improvement Novavax offers over the Pfizer vaccine is tiny. I’d suggest the prudent thing to do would be to get the Pfizer vaccine that is on offer right now.
        
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        September 14, 2021 1:49pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  @Littletramp
  Get vaccinated you idiot, so the rest of us can get on with our lives.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:38am
  - dcrane
    
    The unvaccinated aren’t holding anyone back, the government’s slow rollout is. Haven’t they been deliberately slowing the consumption of the supplies? And some of us will not be getting vaccinated until it’s clear that covid is going to be allowed to circulate (ie., when we know there is risk), in which case it’s still on the government. Set a date to open the border, and that will accelerate uptake a few months before that date.
    
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    September 14, 2021 12:03pm
    - virtualmark
      
      No, they’re not deliberately slowing the consumption of supplies. In fact they’re urging people to get vaccinated asap.
      
      From first injection to full protection is at least 5 weeks, and more like 8 weeks for the best immune response. None of us could guarantee Delta won’t be rampant in the community within the next 8 weeks. Unlikely, don’t want it to be, but can’t guarantee it.
      
      So I’d recommend getting your vaccination started now.
      
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      September 14, 2021 1:52pm
  - Observer of Life
    
    Cap: I have no problem with people choosing not to get the Pfizer vax. Once everyone who wants it is vaccinated then open the borders! We’re adults. We’ve made our beds. Easy really.
    
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    September 14, 2021 11:47pm
- surfing
  
  “Here’s the problem they face selling the vaccine to ordinary folk like me.”
  
  The vaccine is already sold to ordinary people (vaccine sceptics are fringe). 77% of people either had the vaccine or are booked in. We’ll reach at least 85%. The problem is convincing the minority.
  
  Vaccines have been in use for a long time and history shows they are safe….”But mrna technology is new and unproven” I hear you say… this is untrue. Researchers have been working with mrna vaccines for decades.
  
  Everyone is free to make their own decision.
  
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  September 14, 2021 11:00am
  - dcrane
    
    Can you give an example of a widely used mRNA vaccine before the covid ones? It is my sense that they were mostly still in development, maybe used very recently in limited cases.
    
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    September 14, 2021 12:01pm
  - Surely Knott
    
    The serious adverse events reporting for the MRNA vaxxes is significantly higher than our existing vaccinations.
    
    From the Atlantic: ” When the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines triumphed, The Washington Post suggested that a bet on “speedy but risky” mRNA technology had paid off with a paradigm-shifting breakthrough. Anthony Fauci called the gamble “a spectacular success.””
    
    “These two particular mRNA vaccines may have been the first to get results from Phase 3 clinical trials, but that’s because of superior trial management, not secret vaccine sauce. For now, they are harder and more expensive to manufacture and distribute than traditional types of vaccines, and their side effects are more common and more severe. ”
    
    “Side effects are a big barrier for COVID-vaccine acceptance. The CDC reported on Monday that, according to a survey conducted in the spring, only about half of adults under the age of 40 have gotten the vaccine or definitely intend to do so, and that, among the rest, 56 percent say they are concerned about side effects”
    
    “But here’s what we know today, based on information that we have right now: Among several wonderful options, the more old-school vaccine from Novavax combines ease of manufacture with high efficacy and lower side effects. For the moment, it’s the best COVID-19 vaccine we have.”
    
    In the MOH letters sent to households it has a heading of potential side effects and does not mention myocarditis or heart attack or stroke or bells palsy. Are those not risks? Or too rare to mention.
    
    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/06/novavax-now-best-covid-19-vaccine/619276/
    
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9927973/Seven-News-reporter-Denham-Hitchcock-rushed-hospital-Pfizer-Covid-heart-effect.html
    
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9987387/Jackie-O-Henderson-gives-update-ex-Lees-health-rare-heart-effect-Covid-vaccine.html
    
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    September 14, 2021 12:20pm
    - Spoff
      
      It is generally accepted that only around 10% of vaccine side effects get reported. I had long considered that this would not be the case for deaths but two incidents have given me pause for thought.
      One person I know (70s, no History of ticker problems) has died of heart attack within weeks of the jab and another (50s, no History) had myocarditis and survived after hospitalisation.
      Now we cannot know if these were vax related without the appropriate tests but the point is this. In both cases the families did not report the incidents.
      I can now see that there exists the possibility that deaths, particularly among seniors, might very easily escape notice.
      I understand that there have been around 4,000 deaths subsequent to the vax reported in the U.S. Only one autopsy has been performed – it was positive.
      I suggest that any such death (at least among those with no History) should be subject to autopsy.
      
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      September 14, 2021 7:07pm
  - Cinematic
    
    I like your optimism but 85% is an awfully long way away.
    
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    September 14, 2021 12:56pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Vaccines have been in use for a long time and history shows they are safe
    
    Many vaccines have been in use for a long time, and history shows they are safe….
    
    … but this can not be said of the 1st gen Covid therapies because they are novel, and no long-term safety data yet exists.
    
    Your assertion about mRNA vaccines having been worked on for ‘decades’ is unfounded. The technology was used early on for delivery of AIDS medications, not vaccines. The use of mRNA delivery for vaccines is very recent.
    
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    September 14, 2021 1:02pm
    - Batman
      
      Hair splitting there Krazy.
      
      Medication to combat AIDS using mRNA technology is no different than combating a virus with it.
      
      This technology has been in development for twenty plus years. We just got lucky that it had arrived at the starting line in time for us to use it to create vaccines.
      
      “COVID-19 mRNA vaccines: How could anything developed this quickly be safe? – News | UAB” https://www.uab.edu/news/youcanuse/item/12059-covid-19-mrna-vaccines-how-could-anything-developed-this-quickly-be-safe
      
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      September 14, 2021 1:43pm
      - dcrane
        
        Was the AIDS medication being delivered also toxic to human cells the way the spike protein appears to be?
        
        One of the problem I have heard alleged about this technique is that it offers little control over the amount of spike protein that is produced in the body, and where. There can be orders of magnitude variation across individuals. Originally we were told that it would remain in the shoulder muscle. I can’t believe the scientists really believed that, given what seems to be known now.
        
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        September 14, 2021 4:53pm
    - Spoff
      
      Dr. Robert Malone (the inventor of mRNA vaccine technology) with Steve Kirsch, Bret Weinstein:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYGqQY_nnTc
      
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      September 14, 2021 6:39pm
  - MCos
    
    I wouldn’t even waste my breathe trying to convince the diehards.
    
    Diehards gonna stick to their guns on principle.
    
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    September 14, 2021 5:43pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      On principle? On the contrary, MCos. I’ll follow the evidence and have form in reversing previously held positions once the evidence made that the prudent thing to do.
      
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      September 14, 2021 6:50pm
Herodotus

5:36 the PM “My goal is to have the max number of days that we cannot operate freely ..” Can others please check if my listen skills are correct, or was the PM flustered into escaping answering THE question of the day ?
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/coronavirus-jacinda-ardern-explains-why-she-won-t-set-a-vaccination-target-to-end-lockdowns.html
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September 14, 2021 9:23am
- Ruawai
  
  Think it was “My goal is to have as many days where they’ve been able to operate freely” .
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:22am
- Ehlana
  
  She likes to tell us how well we have done since the start compared to places overseas. As opposed to answering the question.
  
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  September 14, 2021 12:27pm
artemisia

The Herald today –

Road deaths soar in Auckland after bold new safety plan and lower speeds come in

Ms Genter is very quiet. But AT chief executive Shane Ellison said the 56 deaths on Auckland roads in the last year is disappointing, but denied it was a setback for Vision Zero. OK then.

Vision Zero will be shuffled off to the Finance Minister’s new Delivery Unit any day now.
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September 14, 2021 9:28am
- Ruawai
  
  People are so confused what speed they should be going and looking at their speedometers instead of the road.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:25am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Speaking of the delivery unit….have they delivered anything yet?
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:46am
  - artemisia
    
    Has the delivery unit delivered itself yet? No sign so far.
    
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    September 14, 2021 11:05am
Suze Wainwright

Is it just me, or is Jacinda now having to explain a lot more? (I thought explaining was losing).

Lately, even Labour’s social media warriors seem to have to explain a lot more why they think Judith Collins is wrong too. Until recently, vile, glib cheap shots seemed to suffice…
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September 14, 2021 9:28am
- Steve Todd
  
  [Deleted -make your point here, not referring to past discussions. Mod.]
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:05am
cmm

Wow, a debt-fuelled economy runs hot… who would have guessed that?

Of course the problem with a debt-fuelled “hot economy” is that it has burned surpluses for a generation. There’s a greater cool down when the the spending runs out.

But Robbo will no doubt be proud of what he has achieved.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/gdp-preview-economy-was-red-hot-is-that-meaningless-now/YXCOBBO2BEWGYZEVNURVW5ZF2Y/
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September 14, 2021 9:34am
Libertarians are right

So registered Republicans are showing up to vote in the California recall election and being told they’ve already voted.

Hands up if you’re surprised.

While it’s obvious that election fraud is happening, the problem is that the law needs more to do anything about it. The controls simply aren’t in place to prove/stop the fraud and therefore people are perfectly safe in pretending fraud isn’t happening.

And the Democrats want to reduce protections further heading into the mid terms to try to keep the Senate.
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September 14, 2021 9:45am
Clyde

Did I hear a stat the other day that there had been 37 hospital admissions because of Covid and 37,000 cancelled or postponed surgeries because of Covid?

Could Princess Pinnochio confirm this? Maybe at her next media standup? Asked by a journalist? Oh, sorry, I forgot……..
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September 14, 2021 9:47am
- Ruawai
  
  Must be very empty hospitals.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:25am
  - Salacious Crumb
    
    Believe me they are. Especially the Auckland ones.
    
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    September 14, 2021 10:53am
- kevn
  
  @Clyde… I was one of those during last years lockdown. Trip to ED.
  
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  September 14, 2021 2:05pm
Kiwiguy

HDPA claimed yesterday that she heard from a reliable source that the COVID clusters in Auckland are mainly in the gang communities.
If this is true, then instead of locking down Auckland, let’s just lock down the gangs, for say oh, a year, to be sure. Who knows, maybe we’d find some other benefits from doing this…

But of course Jacinda would never confirm this piece of news against her close buddies and voter bloc.
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September 14, 2021 9:49am
- westernScientest
  
  If true, elimination is over. I find it really hard to believe gang members are going to be showing up for a swab and potential MIQ when they have a bit of a case of the sniffles.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:25am
- Ruawai
  
  Give them $2.75 million to stay at home.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:26am
- Tony Stuart
  
  There was certainly a gang connection to the second Covid case at Middlemore last week; the woman who presented at ED, and left before her test result was known.
  
  That’s why seven Police officers were stood down the next day, having had dealings with the woman and others at her place of residence the day before she tested positive.
  
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  September 14, 2021 11:54am
- Weinerpoop
  
  It would have to be, the “mystery cases” are either shagging someone they aren’t supposed to be or committing a crime.
  
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  September 14, 2021 1:00pm
ABS4EVA

COVID is BIO WAR

More Exercise
Improved Diet
Closer Monitoring of VITALs

BP Blood sugar etc

No Point surviving Lock down

TO end up in the FN MORG
From something else

+ all of the above will make the chance
of surviving covid better
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September 14, 2021 9:51am
gorse

Stuff is now using Maori to name all the categories it publishes, gone are World, National etc. something written in Maori instead. I have finally given up on it.
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September 14, 2021 10:05am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  MLW, which will probably extend to a month then slowly peter out – like last year.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:25am
- Jack5
  
  I wonder why Stuff hasn’t changed it’s own name yet? Here’s an online Maori dictionary on the options:
  
  https://maoridictionary.co.nz/search?idiom=&phrase=&proverb=&loan=&histLoanWords=&keywords=Stuff
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:28am
  - Kiwiguy
    
    If Stuff wishes to rename itself, may I suggest either kaka or paru.
    
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    September 14, 2021 2:52pm
  - zulumonster
    
    tō tenetene it is then! (1. up yours! stuff you! get stuffed!)
    
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    September 14, 2021 3:49pm
- Yvette
  
  Gorse: It may only be for Te Reo Week, but if it gets you off stuff that may be good, as many may say of the following, for me –
  
  SHORTLAND STREET yesterday evening was subtitled in Maori and failed for two reasons:
  1 – the typeface size was pitifully small
  2 – as with all other Maori subtitling, of several ads too, listening to the English and trying to relate it to words flashing by is near impossible. Reading Maori is probably as difficult to split up into syllables as is trying to pronounce the same. Compare that to something the majority are used to: reading English subtitles on foreign films, but that is often still a bugger too. I often think “Merde – this movie is subtitled so I will give it a miss”
  
  The extra Maori week subtitles of SHORTLAND STREET were also not actually “sub”, but more obtrusively slapped on about a third up the screen, but even by the end of the programme, my eyes (or brain) had adapted hardly register them.
  Obviously the programme was recorded before the Maori subtitles were added as they differed from subtitles inserted at the time of production, being in English to translate what Maori actor “TK Samuels” said to a Maori patient. Those titles, no problem, were actually in the normal “sub” position and near twice the size of the third-way-up-the-screen, extra Maori week subtitling.
  
  So – Yes, to beat anyone else, obviously all my fault for watching SHORTLAND STREET
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:45am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    “but even by the end of the programme, my eyes (or brain) had adapted hardly register them.”
    
    Have some unwanted “floaties” following a cataract op a little while ago. Amazing how the eye/brain connection pushes things that are a nuisance to the side 🙂
    
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    September 14, 2021 11:02am
    - Yvette
      
      70andstilllearning – “floaties”: I do indeed myself have this condition (and several others) as do many older people, when microscopic fibers within the vitreous tend to clump and can cast tiny shadows on your retina. When I noticed the first one, I spent several hours trying to clear whatever it was in my eye, before realising it was not on the outside of the eye, but inside. Bugger! But you are right, the eye adapts to some and after a while only sees new ones. (It is a curse when a new one appears and is darker and smaller than usual, and you take several swipes at an annoyingly consistent fly bothering you, until you realise it isn’t)
      
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      September 14, 2021 11:48am
    - oldfella
      
      70andstilllearning:
      
      Amazing how the eye/brain connection pushes things that are a nuisance to the side
      
      Will that work with Ardern?
      
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      September 14, 2021 12:42pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Nope. She is continuously repetitive, so the sheeple believe the lies are true.
        Btw, I get floaters too – just ignore them and they go away (maybe that is a brain function?)
        
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        September 14, 2021 1:57pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        My optician asked if I was bothered by my floaters,
        I said “what floaters?”.
        He said.. “all those floating around in your eyes”
        I replied.. ” I hadn’t noticed, so No, I wasn’t bothered”.
        
        Hubby always seemed to be aware of his floaters (so I knew of their existence) and seemed to be bothered by them quite a few years before he was diagnosed with Macular Degeneration.
        
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        September 14, 2021 2:20pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      For those that don’t know ‘floaters’ for me are black rings moving across my line of site – but inside the eye. Varying sizes, and different speeds – all directions. Blink and they go away then come back. One of those things you deal with like sciatica (another story)
      
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      September 14, 2021 3:40pm
  - kowtow
    
    Both fools on the Podium of Truth today gave us a big dose to start with , God it’s like being in playschool .
    
    Why the hell the Blofeld feels the need , a health officer , is beyond me , other than more PC bullshit.
    
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    September 14, 2021 2:45pm
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      Thought the delivery was bloody terrible as well in both cases. AB could hardly get the words out.
      
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      September 14, 2021 6:56pm
- Weinerpoop
  
  I gave up on Stuff months ago, best thing I did, I don’t miss their left leaning, divisive racist excuse for journalism
  
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  September 14, 2021 12:59pm
alan

Please send response to Herold. I got this as a email last night.
You’ll remember the work we’ve done to defend the rights of the feminist group Speak Up For Women (SUFW), which was de-platformed from speaking at council-owned venues about proposed amendments to the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Act 1995.

Now NZME (publishers of the NZ Herald newspaper, among others) has joined the de-platforming – again as a result of a few online activists complaining on Twitter.

We’re asking our supporters to email the editor of the NZ Herald, and his boss, to tell them to stop giving in to the online opinion police. A suggested email and contact details are copied at the end of this email.

We backed SUFW to go to the High Court and managed to secure a strong precedent in defence of free speech in public venues. But the attacks on SUFW’s peaceful advocacy haven’t stopped.

In our newsletter last week we told you that the Advertising Standards Authority refused to uphold complaints against a billboard SUFW put up in central Wellington displaying the Oxford dictionary definition of the word ‘woman’.

The Authority said the advertisement did not reach the threshold to be likely to cause harm or serious or widespread offence. It also held that while some consumers were offended by the advertisement, SUFW, in the context of advocacy advertising, had the right to express its view on the definition of “woman”.

Armed with this ruling, SUFW proceeded to run an advertisement featuring the same message in the Otago Daily Times earlier this month. Naturally, the modern-day woke puritans on Twitter were outraged. How dare a newspaper feature advertising they disagree with:

Tweets

NZME / NZ Herald capitulate to Twitter mob

SUFW had arranged with NZME to publish the same advertisement in their newspapers across the country. But upon seeing the “backlash” (i.e the Twitter mob complaints) endured by the Otago Daily Times, NZME reneged!

SUFW successfully booked a nationwide advertising campaign which NZME had approved in the final form. But last week, NZME advised SUFW that it would not be publishing the advertisements, saying:

“We have this afternoon become aware of the significant backlash your advertising in the Otago Daily Times (ODT) has generated.”

“As you know, we had previously requested that your advertisements have the definition of “woman” removed, as we considered that these were potentially inflammatory, would compromise NZME’s reputation, and draw it into a debate in which it does not take a view from a commercial perspective. The response to your advertisement in the ODT confirms our views in this respect.”

This is getting ridiculous. It’s the Advertising Standards Authority’s job to protect us from truly inappropriate content, not NZME’s. Remember this is about people engaging on a Bill before Parliament (submissions close tomorrow) and a feminist group wanting to advertise in newspapers about the issue.

Tell NZME to stop the censorship

NZME are worried about its reputation and the commercial ramifications of running advertisements the Twitterati do not like. They pulled the SUFW advert because they do not want any online ‘backlash’.

If NZME is guided by online complaints, rather than reason, advertising standards, and democracy, let’s give them the backlash they are trying to avoid. Let’s give them good reason to say no to those who try to censor views they disagree with.

Send an email to NZME calling on them to stand up for free expression by publishing SUFW’s advertisements.

The enemies of free speech hunt in packs, so its defenders need to band together too

>> Email NZME <<

If you want to add or subtract from the template email we’ve written, please do. If the email hyperlink doesn’t connect to your email browser, feel free to copy and paste the text below.

We’re all in this together. Let’s keep newspapers out of deciding which ideas are or aren’t accepted as a society. We should each get to make that decision for ourselves.

Thank you for your efforts to stand up to the cancel culture.

Jonathan

Jonathan Ayling
Spokesperson
Free Speech Union
http://www.fsu.nz
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September 14, 2021 10:11am
- alloytoo
  
  Sorry Jonathan, can’t find that template on your website, can you provide a more specific URL to cut and paste.
  
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  September 14, 2021 12:22pm
- oldfella
  
  alan, NZME is the same organisation that falsely proclaims itself to be…
  Proudly independent
  Our NZME and NZ Herald newsrooms operate freely and independently, without fear or favour, in our editorial pursuit. The Fourth Estate is a critical pillar in the New Zealand democracy and the Herald’s editorial independence is enshrined in our code of ethics: “We will be independent and not bow to improper internal or external influences”. Any suggestion that our journalists — and those more broadly in New Zealand — are failing to ask hard questions of both the Government and opposition politicians is rejected.
  Shayne Currie, NZME managing editor; Murray Kirkness, NZ Herald Editor; Stuart Dye, Editor, Weekend Herald and Herald on Sunday; Miriyana Alexander, Premium Content Editor; Nadia Tolich, Head of Content Development; Duncan Bridgeman, Business Editor, Claire Trevett, Political Editor;Lois Turei, Head of Cultural Partnerships
  
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  September 14, 2021 12:46pm
  - GJM
    
    If they are part of the team of $55m, they aren’t and cannot be independent. It doesn’t work like that. He who pays the piper etc.
    
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    September 14, 2021 2:04pm
thirteenstars

The importance of independent media. Avi Yemini’s report about a police assault upon a peaceful protestor walking home.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2lCXs1ct2g
[SHOCKING: Violent police bodycam footage EXPOSES media lies – Rebel News]

It’s an interesting question: what would you do if you saw the police jump upon a friend, without cause and start mauling and assaulting him? Do you just stand back and watch? Or do you take the view that once the police themselves step outside the law then they are acting as criminals and can be treated as such?
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September 14, 2021 10:15am
NoFax

It appears the media are widening the circle of experts to interview now. It is not just the triangle of death (Baker, 80k dead, and Pink Frost). I think Wiles been caught hit the government hard as their commissars were in full force explaining why it was my fault as white male. Why is the PM defending her?

What I find interesting is that there is more of an openness to the idea that we will have to live with Covid and that we cannot continue with this. Of course, no direct criticisms of Cindy yet, and the policy we have was good just need to re-think now.

It seems every day we get more and more to what Covid Plan B was saying 18 months ago. Soon their ideas will become the mainstream. Unfortunately, the fear porn peddle by the legacy media and the government overwhelmed people’s rationality so we couldn’t have a rational conversation 18 months ago. But things are changing
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September 14, 2021 10:18am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Absolutely agree NoFax – see my 10.14 quote from yesterdays PM presser – the conditioning message is changing.
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:55am
70andstilllearning

I found this comment from the PM ‘s Podium press release yesterday most interesting. Coincidental perhaps?

“But I also have an ask of all of you. The first is: please stick to your bubble. Four weeks into
a lockdown it might feel tempting to open up, catch up with a friend, merge households.
Please treat every day of lockdown as seriously as you treated day one. It’s just as important
now to get us over the line.”
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September 14, 2021 10:41am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Perhaps she was speaking to her mate Siousxie?
  
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  September 14, 2021 10:47am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Fat finger syndrome, I suffer from that myself especially when too vain to put on or cannot find my glasses.
    
    Siousxie is just above Sroubek in the directory so an honest mistake to make when in a hurry and perhaps the urging of a ‘friend’
    
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    September 14, 2021 11:54am
    - Kiwiguy
      
      Siousxie looks to me like it should be pronounced ‘sushi’, so that’s how I shall pronounce it from now on.
      
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      September 14, 2021 2:55pm
Critical Thinker

Doctor Wants To Be ‘Scary To The Public’ And Inflate COVID Numbers, ‘If You Don’t Get Vaccinated, You Know You’re Going To Die’

Senior doctors and a marketing director at in North Carolina discussed inflating COVID-19 numbers by counting recovered patients as active COVID patients.
https://nationalfile.com/doctor-wants-to-be-scary-to-the-public-and-inflate-covid-numbers-if-you-dont-get-vaccinated-you-know-youre-going-to-die/

A new study suggests that almost half of those hospitalized with COVID-19 have mild or asymptomatic cases.

“The federal government requires hospitals to report every patient who tests positive for COVID, yet the overall tallies of COVID hospitalizations, made available on various state and federal dashboards and widely reported on by the media, do not differentiate based on severity of illness. Some patients need extensive medical intervention, such as getting intubated. Others require supplemental oxygen or administration of the steroid dexamethasone. But there are many COVID patients in the hospital with fairly mild symptoms, too, who have been admitted for further observation on account of their comorbidities, or because they reported feeling short of breath. Another portion of the patients in this tally are in the hospital for something unrelated to COVID, and discovered that they were infected only because they were tested upon admission.

According to the researchers, 40 to 45 percent of the hospitalizations that they examined were for patients in the latter group.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hospitalization-numbers-can-be-misleading/620062/
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September 14, 2021 10:42am
Wayne1749

“An All Black who committed three assaults in the Octagon has side-stepped convictions after completing diversion.”

Note the assaults were on a woman.

Can someone explain what the fuck this is about??????

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/all-black-shannon-frizells-assault-charges-dismissed/D4BKYEVOW6ZZ7K5HEVEQT22HZY/
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September 14, 2021 10:49am
- kowtow
  
  Recall the massive Media Pardy pile on for an Australian rugby stars’ bible tweets , they even tried to drag it out and extend their faux outrage to his NZer wife,
  
  And what will happen from the Perpetually Outraged Media Mob in this case ……….. nothing . That’s fine , but the hypocrisy isn’t.
  
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  September 14, 2021 12:43pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  “Can someone explain what the fuck this is about??????”
  Easy. He’s an All Black so he got off.
  
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  September 14, 2021 1:10pm
  - Adroit
    
    Not just an All Black – he’s a poor, innocent man of colour who dindu nuffin. Clearly his crimes are as a result of the structural oppression and racism that has enabled him to be plucked from a poor third world country, educated in NZ, paid wages most of us could only dream about, and be elevated to a significant position of cultural and sporting importance. But never mind, the poor pleb from Dunedin that copped a hiding was probably working-class white, so she probably failed to significantly check her privilege or her implicit biases.
    
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    September 14, 2021 5:34pm
Jack5

Facebook has a “white list” of 5.8 million users who get privilege in editing of posts, says an article behind the Wall Street Journal.

This hampers Facebook’s moderators in their work.

The newspaper says the system allowed the Brazilian soccer star Neymar to post, for a day, nude pictures of a woman who had accused him of rape.

Facebook generated $US100 billion in profit over five years, says the WSJ. Its current value is $US1 trillion.
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September 14, 2021 10:53am
- Jack5
  
  Edit: … behind the Wall Street Journal pay wall.
  
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  September 14, 2021 11:06am
- dcrane
  
  This sounds like the way Wikipedia uses super-users and a “deprecated sources” (banned sites) list to keep establishment-threatening narratives out of their pages. Stories like the capture of the UN Organization for the Prevention of Chemical Weapons, and the resulting whistleblower revelations around doctored reports on Syrian weapons, are effectively banned.
  
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  September 14, 2021 11:49am
- kowtow
  
  Zuckerburg Chan donated $ 400 million to ousting Trump .
  
  I wonder why ?
  
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  September 14, 2021 11:50am
Yvette

vaccination target
“We’re in lockdown because we do not have enough New Zealanders currently vaccinated to stop an outbreak that would devastate our community,” Ardern explained on Tuesday …
“You can look at other countries to see where it is that it starts having an impact and where it hasn’t,” Ardern told The AM Show.

To make either of the above statements Ardern must have a vaccinated figure in mind, or is she acting without viable information? – another intuitive notion, as she admits have been some of her other decisions.

“In the US they’ve got hospitalisations around 100,000… that is extraordinary. It is the hospitalisation numbers that everyone is worried about. We are actually close to overtaking the US with our vaccination rate, but we need to keep going.”

US population 2020 – 331,449,281
The population of NZ in 2020 – 4,822,233 people
So would not “US they’ve got hospitalisations around 100,000” equate to about 1,454 in hospital here?
(Valid? – surely, if Ardern can compare our vaccination rate to that of the US)
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September 14, 2021 10:55am
- zulumonster
  
  It’s all about what you are comparing. She stated later on that NZ was soon to overtake the US in vax rate. That may be true if we are only looking at rate of people with 1 or 2 doses vaxxed. We are at 59% and the US at 62%. With our recent surge in people getting vaxxed we may overtake them soon.
  But the number of fully vaxxed is a different story – if you count people with 2 doses then the numbers are at 30% for NZ and 53% for the USA.
  
  A day or so ago she also boasted we are rolling out the vax faster than anyone else in the world. which is not surprising when the majority of the OECD nations have already reached the vax hesitant parts of their population. It’s no great achievement to be going faster than anyone else when you’re a lap behind!
  
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  September 14, 2021 4:13pm
ecco

The effects of Ardern’s lockdown are spread far and wide. Just talked to a manufacturer in Hamilton re upholstered items on order. Woman said their factory is sitting around idle twiddling their thumbs, as fabric they require is sitting in Auckland warehouses, won’t be released by Ardern and co under the settings they have put in place.
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September 14, 2021 10:57am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Here in Whangarei we can’t get a volume of $0.12 parts we ordered three weeks ago because the Auckland company is not allowed to ship. Holding up production here.
  
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  September 14, 2021 12:47pm
surfing

Warning if selling an expensive car…. criminals are using the details they get through the sales process for identity theft reasons. The sale falls through, but , they use your identity to steal money from others.

Not sure how common this is, but be careful out there.
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September 14, 2021 11:15am
Maggie Pie

The HORRID reports….

Those planning to hold their nuptials in Gisborne over the next few months, may have suffered a major blow to their arrangements.

One of Gizzies most popular ‘Wedding Venues’ was destroyed by fire yesterday. Due to labour and material shortages currently affecting the entire country, it is unlikely to be rebuilt in the foreseeable future.

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1437233689331748866
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September 14, 2021 11:27am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Priceless!
  
  The stealthy hand of Maradona strikes again after 30+ years!
  
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  September 14, 2021 12:00pm
- MCos
  
  That is horrid.
  
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  September 14, 2021 12:42pm
The Feed

Has anyone asked the Green MPs how many of them have been vaccinated?
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September 14, 2021 11:43am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kM2kGrZ_Bo

F*** Joe Biden’! Biden Trolled and Heckled Across the Nation!

In this video we’re going to take a look at the massive wave of protest and backlash against Biden’s vax mandates, we’re going to see how the polls are reflecting this sentiment that we’re hearing across the nation, and stick with me to the very end of the video where I’ll reveal the REAL significance of the growing wave of resistance against Biden and the political class. [11:41. The resident deserves every syllable of it!]
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September 14, 2021 11:51am
- Stu2
  
  ok, president curry
  
  You have 150,000+ covid cases and 1,500 deaths a day, and it isn’t getting better.
  
  What are you going to do?
  
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  September 14, 2021 2:13pm
  - fernglas
    
    Roll with it? What else can you do, if people decide for political reasons that they aren’t going to get vaccinated? If I need a liver transplant and refuse to give up drinking, do you think a fit, abstemious person would not be put in the queue ahead of me? If people don’t want to be vaccinated, perhaps they should be prepared to suffer the consequences of their decision.
    
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    September 14, 2021 5:24pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    How about inject some rationality and trust of population into the process?
    
    Override Big Pharma interests and create a comprehensive individual case tracking infrastructure to gather as much information about individual covid infections and their progression while freely offering a wide range of known safe and low risk therapeutics that appear to be useful so that best treatments can be rapidly identified and optimised without the year or two lag of business-as-usual medical trials.
    
    Be scrupulously diligent and honest in collecting and openly sharing data on vaccine reactions and safety – warts and all, so that everyone can clearly see what the relative risks are without the hesitancy engendered by fear that they are being hoodwinking by institutions that have been dishonest about so many things over the last 18 months.
    
    Hang up the phone on special interests that are getting policy sculpted to suit them to others detriments – most specifically including teachers unions, and legislatively end ability of big tech to censor and propagandise.
    
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    September 14, 2021 9:32pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENH7m_u1nrg

Taliban v Taliban.

While India is currently the fourth largest online gaming market globally, it sure has the legs to overtake everyone, especially after Xi Jinping’s brain fade. Watch the video to know more. [5:36. Its the Afghan People’s Front v the Peoples Front of Afghanistan. Who knew they’d watched the Life of Brian?]
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September 14, 2021 11:51am
Inandout

Maggie, my good friend Destiny once lent me her spare crystal ball and as I was giving it a dusting this morning I thought I saw Jacinda receiving a sort of prize. Deeper back though was a large marquee and what looked like a wedding and a crowd.
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September 14, 2021 12:04pm
- oldfella
  
  Will Cindy fly in Billy Fury to sing ‘White Wedding’?
  
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  September 14, 2021 4:50pm
Maggie Pie

Even @ Alert Lv4 the good news keeps on coming….

ZB Business Editor reports house prices in Remuera have risen ‘on average’ by $56 p/HOUR since the beginning of the year.

😀 😀 😀
17 2
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September 14, 2021 12:51pm
Jack5

The Green express to chaos …

The introductory paragraph from a report in the Telegraph today:

[British] Energy prices have surged to 11 times above normal levels – a fresh record high – as a crunch in gas supply, low wind speeds and power station closures pile unprecedented pressure on Britain’s grid.

The world is short of gas (plenty under our coast and in NZ’s coalfields, Jacinda – would have been a great export earner).

World natural gas prices are their highest since 2014. This is on booming demand.
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September 14, 2021 1:08pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Same happening in NZ. Vaccine mandate coming? The Govt is not on our side.
https://rumble.com/vmgp3f-small-business-owner-goes-off-on-biden-over-vaccine-mandate.html?
7 4
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September 14, 2021 1:12pm
- kowtow
  
  St Jax of the Late Vax has already said she won’t do that , cos she loves freedom ( bwahahaha)
  
  The real reason is demographic . Certain ‘communities” are vax hesitant and there’s no way she’ll want her regime to be labelled rayciss cos so many members of those communidies are going to be excluded from venues/ services cos thay aint got jabbed……
  
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  September 14, 2021 1:26pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Well if she said she won’t do that, you can take it to the Bank…..
    But then there is the blaming porkies on others.
    Now in the planning stages ….
    
    4 1
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    September 14, 2021 3:44pm
I remember when

So 15 cases today all linked to known households.
The majority of them linked to just three households.
Well its just great to see that the cases are being caused by people being locked up together.
The proof is there to see, lockdowns work in containing covid to places where we can then expect it.
9 1
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September 14, 2021 1:13pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Where are those three households?
  If this Covid is as serious as we are relentlessly told, then the importance of Covid would surpass the infected peoples’ right to privacy.
  But our anointed ones think their privacy is more important than Covid.
  I disagree, as I think this Covid is very important.
  
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  September 14, 2021 3:29pm
JohnnyOverton

Let the war for our countries name begin.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/te-reo-maori/126369919/petition-to-rename-new-zealand-as-aotearoa-launched

Launching a counter petition to retain NZ as our nations name would be a damn good idea.

The extremist Maori party should be banned. It is a racist, ethno-nationalist & party which stirs up hate against white kiwis & our constitution.
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September 14, 2021 1:35pm
- Fletch
  
  How about we let them, but withdrawn all the amenities and inventions the white man has brought, like electricity, modern plumbing, the combustion engine, etc?
  
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  September 14, 2021 2:23pm
  - mandk
    
    We could take the hats away, too.
    
    You know, like the ones the leader of the Maori party likes to wear in Parliament.
    
    Cultural appropriation writ large.
    
    12 0
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    September 14, 2021 2:40pm
    - JohnnyOverton
      
      Yep cultural app. alright, I’m sure Texans wouldn’t like it. In days gone by hats were a big no no inside, off with the macho kahuna’s hat.
      
      2 0
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      September 14, 2021 3:59pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Combustion engine? The ‘Otto’ 4 stroke cycle?
    
    5 1
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    September 14, 2021 3:45pm
  - JohnnyOverton
    
    With race based Maori privilege being introduced left right & centre we must legislate to define once & for who is Maori & who is not. A DNA test would suffice, over 50% Polynesian blood in your veins then you’re legally Maori.
    
    3 0
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    September 14, 2021 4:07pm
- jon
  
  Johnny SNAP. there must be someone on here who could organize a counter petition. You are right its becoming a war with words not enough to roll back this nonsense. Action is required.
  
  9 0
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  September 14, 2021 2:29pm
  - JohnnyOverton
    
    Jon you’re dead right, widespread action is long overdue. The Maori party is treasonous & racist poison. I hope someone picks up on this idea. Setting up these things is not my strength, but I’d be the first to sign.
    
    5 0
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    September 14, 2021 3:54pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  Let it go to a vote.
  
  9 1
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  September 14, 2021 2:48pm
- NoFax
  
  So when some National MPs suggest this it was racist but when these clearly racist people do it it is ok?
  
  4 0
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  September 14, 2021 3:05pm
- Yabster
  
  Its not just NZ its also towns and cities- as if they exsisted in 1840 – what aload of bullshit that is – MSM love it of course – stuffed leading the charge..
  
  4 0
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  September 14, 2021 3:17pm
- cmm
  
  There has not been a valid reason for the Maori roll since 19 December 1879.
  
  The Maori Party only exists because 144 years of various governments have been too damn slack at doing their job.
  
  The Maori roll was introduced in the days before universal suffrage because Maori, traditionally non-land-owning had limited voting. Maori were then given a special roll, giving them universal (male) suffrage.
  When universal (male) suffrage was extended to all, the Maori roll should have been abolished.
  
  It is astounding that this racist anomaly has lasted that long.
  
  11 2
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  September 14, 2021 4:09pm
  - JohnnyOverton
    
    Exactly, this colonial paternalism is partly to blame for the race based separatism situation we’re in today. See below, the anti-democratic blueprint for the Maori/Polynesian takeover of NZ.
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/451466/nine-new-maori-ward-councillors-likely-for-northland
    
    This is our nations future folks; the only way to put a stop to this undemocratic, racist nonsense is for non-Maori kiwis to get out from behind their keyboards & bring their opposition to our streets.
    
    Fat chance of this happening as we have become such a woke, guilt ridden, compliant roll over society.
    
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    September 14, 2021 4:32pm
Maggie Pie

My partners mum just called up for a chat…poor thing is bored out of her tree. Said she’s even been reduced to listening to those two ‘wooly-woofters’ on ZB.
Reckons they’ve done nothing else for the last 2 hours other than read out….. ‘hate-filled txts from plebs all going on about the young couple with name suppression who flew to Wanaka for the weekend’.

As ma said, “What she’d like to know is the name of the low-life nark that dobbed them in” 🙁
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September 14, 2021 2:06pm
- kevn
  
  @Maggie… Another Aucklander who has moved to Wanaka? The one with the new hybrid Audi AWD.
  
  5 0
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  September 14, 2021 3:45pm
- sooty
  
  Bet it’s someone living close by the holiday home.
  
  4 0
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  September 14, 2021 6:36pm
Fletch

Novavax could be in Australia by the end of the year. When will we get it here?

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/novavax-vaccine-australia-shipment
7 1
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September 14, 2021 2:20pm
- kevn
  
  @Fletch… MOH delivery arrangements? 2022, mid year I reckon. They made a big noise about 2021 last 1/4 in NZ. It will never happen then. MOH.
  
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  September 14, 2021 3:44pm
surfing

Judge Davidson ultimately granted suppression for the Wanaka pair, but he had concerns.

he had doubts about the District Court’s jurisdiction to make pre-charge suppression orders.

The judge does not know the law but made a ruling anyway?

Trial by social media will be far more severe than a fine. Which is likely given first offence, good standing, etc etc.
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September 14, 2021 3:00pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING…

A bit off topic but worth sharing with the group during lockdown.

>>>>Krispy Kreme are sooo last month!

One of the girls from tennis put us onto ‘GrownUp Donuts’ ….made fresh daily and delivered to your door!!
The flavors are amazeballs and change every week.
My faves are the ‘Belgian Choccy & Salted Butterscotch and the Strawberry Jam with Cream.

Auckland only. There’s no going back to KK 😛

https://grownupdonuts.nz
6 4
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September 14, 2021 3:04pm
- cmm
  
  So don’t KK pay their social influencers any more?
  
  3 0
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  September 14, 2021 3:58pm
- krazykiwi
  
  There’s no going back to KK
  
  I’m free! I’m free!
  
  6 1
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  September 14, 2021 4:17pm
Benedict Yu

What the hell is it with American parents stopping their teenage kids getting vaccinated?

https://time.com/6082966/vaxteen-covid-19/

America has both the smartest and dumbest people in the world.
7 18
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September 14, 2021 3:25pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  Logical and responsible parents ?
  
  “I absolutely do not think that is logical at any level I mean leave alone the ethics of using 12 year-olds as barriers for infection for the community. The bottom line is that these vaccines do not prevent transmission.
  
  In the case of the 12 year-old it benefits neither the individual who is not at risk of severe disease and death, nor does it benefit the community. To ask children to bear that risk is for me, simply unacceptable.”
  
  “These vaccines do not prevent transmission” – Oxford University Professor Sunetra Gupta
  https://youtu.be/t8Xuz9wPLJE?t=207
  
  4 2
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  September 14, 2021 3:45pm
- Stu2
  
  I would have expected the USA to combat covid far better than it has. Perhaps things would have gone better in pre-social media times.
  
  Not just bad for covid victims either. With the load on hospitals in the low vaccination states there must be a lot of people having consultations and procedures delayed or cancelled.
  
  1 3
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  September 14, 2021 3:47pm
  - Cinematic
    
    Like procedures and consultations are being scrapped in NZ?
    
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    September 15, 2021 7:23am
- cmm
  
  Risk vs reward.
  
  Why put an unproven vax (with less and less benefits every day) into a person with a less-than-motor-vehicle risk of dying?
  
  Sure, some kids will be high risk, but the vast majority are not.
  
  12 1
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  September 14, 2021 4:02pm
  - Cinematic
    
    I’m baffled why BY and other sane people don’t get this.
    
    4 1
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    September 14, 2021 4:40pm
  - dcrane
    
    Exactly, many of the very few kids who are at high risk from covid are probably identifiable a priori by disorders/comorbidities. Perhaps it makes sense for them. But you might as well ask why we don’t give all children the flu vaccine every year.
    
    5 1
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    September 14, 2021 4:55pm
- dcrane
  
  Only about 370 children under age 17 have died from covid in the entire 18-month pandemic in America. (And keep in mind that some say a large fraction of the nation’s deaths were preventable had the infected people had decent healthcare.)
  
  Orders of magnitude more kids die on the roads every year.
  
  6 1
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  September 14, 2021 4:57pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  BY, I think you hit a nerve with this comment.
  
  We know that you are pro-vaccine. That is obvious. Why not let other people decide for themselves whether to Vax or let their young kids Vax. Give them a bit of credit.
  
  Just leave it alone for a while.
  
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  September 14, 2021 7:07pm
Maggie Pie

And this just in from bestie ‘Prof Anne-Marie Brady’…

‘Despite being a FREE LOVE party, including homosexuality in the 20’s and 30’s, the CCP now bans effeminate men’

Read Anne-Marie’s comments in ‘The Age’ on Xi’s crack down…….

https://twitter.com/Anne_MarieBrady/status/1437610408882311168
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September 14, 2021 3:29pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “effeminate men” You mean in China right? Not NZ?
  One reason I shy away from TVNZ
  
  7 1
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  September 14, 2021 3:54pm
Nickc2

AOC models Cindy’s wedding dress.
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2021/09/aoc-wears-tax-the-rich-dress-to-party-with-the-rich-and-famous.html
Pure class!
5 1
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September 14, 2021 3:54pm
Nickc2

Republicans turn up at voting centers to cast their vote in California’s Recall election only to be informed that they have already cast their votes. Who would have guessed?
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/09/13/watch-california-recall-polling-center-tells-some-republicans-they-already-voted/
4 1
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September 14, 2021 4:14pm
- doggone7
  
  Which means there is a story in that particular media. Read the story and weigh up what it says or read it and assume the headline, “Polling Center Tells Some Republicans They ‘Already Voted” and paint the worst possible picture?
  
  A picture has already been painted in the last couple of days by the previous president that there is fraud in the election.
  
  The story is a cheap beat up to match his narrative.
  
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  September 14, 2021 8:39pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Is this your own opinion or something you have been instructed to spread?
    
    1 0
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    September 14, 2021 11:09pm
Observer of Life

Future epitaph for our Great Pretender:
“So Many Words”
“So Little Information”
6 0
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September 14, 2021 4:37pm
fernglas

Some stats from the Daily Telegraph about the efficacy of the vaccines:

“Only 59 fully vaccinated people without serious health conditions died from Covid-19 out of more than 50,000 deaths in England this year, new figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) show.

In the first study of deaths by vaccination status, the ONS found that around 99 per cent of Covid-19 deaths between January 2 and July 2 2021 were in people who had not had two doses.

Overall 640 (1.2 per cent) of deaths were in those who had received both vaccine doses, but the ONS said many of those could have been infections picked up before the second dose.

Just 256 deaths (0.5 per cent) were considered true “breakthrough” infections where the second dose had long enough to work, but still did not offer protection.

However, the average age of those “breakthrough” infections was 84 and the majority (76 per cent) were classed as “extremely clinically vulnerable”. Just 59 did not have serious medical conditions. ”

To put it in context, that is a one in a million chance.
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September 14, 2021 4:49pm
Benedict Yu

What the hell?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/te-reo-maori/126369919/supporters-of-push-to-rename-new-zealand-as-aotearoa-prepared-for-backlash
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September 14, 2021 5:20pm
- fernglas
  
  Leaving aside the question of what the name should be, I find it hard to see the attachment to being named after a clump of under-populated land, mostly below sea-level, largely known for its attraction to German sunbathers and on the other side of the world.
  
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  September 14, 2021 5:30pm
  - Jack5
    
    New Zealand, or New Sealand as it translates from German, isn’t as foreign as Maorify-ers claim.
    
    Zealand, or as it was originally spelled, Zeeland, is a land of Frisians, and Frisian is the English language’s closest relative.
    
    Regardless of spelling, the name “Sea Land,” being from a fellow tongue of the West German language group, is a million miles closer to English than “Aotearoa”. Probably only Iceland, Samoa, and Tonga, rival New Zealand as the “Sea Land”.
    
    The name New Zealand has become well known in the English language, and as a marketing brand is vastly more valuable than “Aotearoa”.
    
    Let Maori call the country “Aotearoa” or whatever they choose in the Maori language, but leave it “New Zealand” in English.
    
    Similarly with the rest of the Maori-English being created by State radio and State Television.
    
    What’s the point in having two official languages if users of one, Maori, want to Maorify into Pidgin the other, the world lingua franca – English?
    
    Maori separatists’ goal seems to be: “What’s mine is mine, and What’s yours is half-mine.”
    
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    September 14, 2021 11:28pm
- Inandout
  
  BY, Jacinda wants to beat us down further before she changes our country’s name. The South Island will be more difficult than the rest of NZ because, well, they can be tough bastards. Just keep those levels above zero, make the face masks compulsory so any objections are muffled and just keep the sheep fed from Grant’s money tree.
  
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  September 14, 2021 5:31pm
- krazykiwi
  
  I guess if “Um, no thanks. I prefer to stick with ‘New Zealand’ “ is a backlash then so be it.
  
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  September 14, 2021 5:59pm
  - fernglas
    
    It’s a good term, backlash. Have you ever heard the sound of a public outcry? Or been around when the Nation was Holding its Breath?
    
    3 3
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    September 14, 2021 6:12pm
Herodotus

2 breaches under level 4. I know that the powers be will be applying the consequences to both breaches ??
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/alleged-wanaka-covid-19-breachers-remorseful-about-bad-decision-says-friend/ZSCJA2G2GAVVHDJE5VW4SGXUP4/
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/lockdown-breach-more-than-50-seen-lining-auckland-street-for-tangi/2XW7OBTRYAIB2EUR5B2UBHFJ7Q/
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September 14, 2021 5:41pm
Prince

A further unknown sum has been paid to some Pike River families to buy their silence.
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/joint-statement-mr-bernard-monk-hon-andrew-little-minister-responsible-pike-river-re-entry

Andrew Little using your money to keep things quiet again.
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September 14, 2021 6:44pm
Maggie Pie

Anyone else just see on 1Ewes where the gubmint intends to send ‘Vaccine Vans’ directly into various neighborhoods….. so that the residents can come out of their homes for the Covid Vaxx?

Reported that the PM would like to see them called…. “Jabbin Waggins ”

My partner reckons they could play ‘Green Sleeves’ as they head up The Avenue.

SHEESH!!
9 2
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September 14, 2021 7:06pm
- Fletch
  
  Ashley could come along dressed as the Good Humor Man…
  
  4 1
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  September 14, 2021 7:17pm
- Muttonbird
  
  “The Bus of Life” would be good.
  
  2 7
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  September 14, 2021 7:42pm
Maggie Pie

Ma just called to say she wonders how the Nark’s feeling now after dobbing Wills & Hannah into the police?

No doubt their name will be out there soon as well.

BGJ too!!
9 6
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September 14, 2021 7:18pm
- Stu2
  
  New Years honours list probably, for services to law and order
  
  2 2
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  September 14, 2021 7:34pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Now why would an equestrian be an essential worker?
  
  8 0
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  September 14, 2021 7:36pm
  - DeepBlue
    
    I recall even last year their were exemptions for animal welfare. Maybe Wills needed to muck out the stables.
    
    Hannah is in a real spot of bother though, ignoring the Chief Justice instruction of 3 September to not cross the border.
    
    6 0
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    September 14, 2021 8:08pm
- Muttonbird
  
  I’d say the nark is feeling great. They’ve done a great service to Auckland and New Zealand.
  
  That person should be given a medal!
  
  4 14
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  September 14, 2021 7:40pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    For what?
    Your great-grandad receive any during WW11??
    Mine did….. for keeping his trap shut.
    
    12 1
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    September 14, 2021 8:11pm

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