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September 4, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 04 September 2021

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General Debate

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Steve Todd

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Here’s an alternative view — to the seeming prevailing view among the right-wingers here — as to the efficacy of ivermectin as a “vaccine” or treatment for COVID-19.

(See https://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/2021/08/dont-be-a-sheep-take-horse-dewormer/?)

Well worth a read, if only to have a more rounded picture.
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September 4, 2021 8:01am
- krazykiwi
  
  Your article says:
  
  Ivermectin is an antiparasitic drug. It’s used to treat ailments like river blindness, a nasty parasitic infection spread by blackfly bites. It’s also used to deworm livestock and pets. It’s been dubbed a wonder drug
  
  The author forgot to mention that it was primarily developed for humans and 3.7 billion doses have been administered to humans, with an approaching 100% safety record.
  
  The author then goes on to suggest that all efficacy trials are bogus because there have been bogus studies.
  
  Hardly a strong case, but each to their own.
  
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  September 4, 2021 8:16am
  - Steve Todd
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Clearly, it’s not my article; I’m just the messenger. It puts forward an alternative view — take it or leave it.
    
    As you say, each to their own.
    
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    September 4, 2021 8:24am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Apologies, I didn’t mean to imply that you wrote it. Thanks for the link.
      
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      September 4, 2021 8:26am
      - Steve Todd
        
        All good. No worries.
        
        I maintain the article enables all of us to have a “more rounded” picture, whether we agree with it, or not. That can’t be bad.
        
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        September 4, 2021 8:37am
      - kowtow
        
        The “more rounded” one is the more likelihood the virus will knock ya.
        
        Best bet is keeping fit and healthy .
        
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        September 4, 2021 9:42am
      - PhilBest
        
        “More rounded”? Mate, we need more counter to the lying MSM and corrupt officials, not just more of the same.
        
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        September 4, 2021 10:29am
    - Simon
      
      ” I’m just the messenger. It puts forward an alternative view — take it or leave it.”
      
      You cant defend the crap you link? If people wanted zero covid nutjob misinformation there is RNZ & Cindy the midwit herself.
      
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      September 4, 2021 8:37am
      - birdhaven
        
        https://www.facebook.com/GovRonDeSantis/videos/636308821106697/?__cft__%5B0%5D=AZXUR5ez6_qgmuh1d4xh8C-R8HHzX0-bhJPLxo-ZydJ3wGhDwkF6q25lUW7myXmFvlIF93M9QMjlHO5ZpqLoGXwg9aaLEvpk2ONJj45WE1yxKrUMDezrWskVdsIjXzqgzfru98KZnvcavKs5Zuig3TsW60Ikx2JyMxx_-KG4MvKXaOyPXO9wABmb9XL0bpzPm4M&__tn__=R%5D-R This who Cindy should talk to.
        
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        September 4, 2021 10:37am
      - PhilBest
        
        I’m fascinated by the term “midwit” coming into use; did William Briggs start this or does he just use it because it is coming into use anyway?
        
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        September 4, 2021 11:04am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Earlier this morning I drank some water, a beverage that has been used for thousands if not millions of years to hydrate Cats, Dogs, Horses and all manner of other species on the Planet…
    I guess possibly it’ll have an adverse effect on me some time in the future.
    
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    September 4, 2021 8:57am
    - softail 1450
      
      JibberJabber, Some fool overdosed on Ivermectin and died so all of a sudden it’s a deadly “horse drug” , many people have overdosed and died from drinking water especially after taking certain recreational drugs, so that damn water should be excluded from human consumption ,good grief some people are so stupid they actually swim in the stuff.
      
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      September 4, 2021 10:46am
      - Surely Knott
        
        Sure but when people overdose on horse drugs like Ketamine for recreational fun at festivals the left bring out a tent to test and advise on illegal drug use. When you want to explore th use of a drug for health purposes you get shamed and cancelled by the left.
        
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        September 4, 2021 12:50pm
      - Ruahine
        
        The chemical name for water is Dihydrogen Monoxide.
        Everyone knows that Monoxide will kill you.
        
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        September 4, 2021 12:55pm
    - Liberty
      
      Depends where you live. If New Zealand.
      The water is fine.
      But if you live in mythical Aotearoa.
      According to government speak. You will be drinking slime.
      
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      September 4, 2021 12:13pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    The author then goes on to suggest that all efficacy trials are bogus because there have been bogus studies.
    
    I’ve read the article several times now, and this is simply not true. The author neither suggests nor implies that “all efficacy trials are bogus because there have been bogus studies.” Indeed, he clearly states, “There are larger, better designed studies in progress for ivermectin, and it’s not impossible that they’ll find a modest benefit.”
    
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    September 4, 2021 9:06am
    - All_on_Red
      
      https://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2017/may/30/why-do-pedants-pedant
      
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      September 4, 2021 9:17am
    - Littletramp
      
      First rule of finding yourself in a hole – stop digging!
      
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      September 4, 2021 9:35am
      - Steve Todd
        
        But I’m not in a hole. I simply put up an additional comment, disagreeing with krazykiwi’s assertion.
        
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        September 4, 2021 10:54am
      - Paulus
        
        Cindy is the exception remember.
        She digs and drops somebody else in it.
        
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        September 4, 2021 11:00am
    - PhilBest
      
      Large scale trials are BS compared to field experiments in a crisis. A frontline doctor using their initiative has a study group of hundreds of people who are likely to die. And a control group of millions of people who don’t have a doctor with initiative and a passion for knowledge that has led them to stay on top of how medications work.
      
      A large scale trial will by default include a statistically-swamping proportion of subjects who won’t even get sick. What is the point? Do you test bulletproof vests on troops NOT at the front?
      
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      September 4, 2021 10:33am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      I have a question Todd that I can’t find an answer to. Does Covid strengthen as it spreads in a community thus giving it a greater capacity to overcome resistance from persons who have been vaccinated?
      
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      September 4, 2021 10:39am
      - Steve Todd
        
        Heh, heh. Good one Brian.
        
        I think your question would be better directed at one of Kiwiblog’s several resident “epidemiologists”. After all, they’re the experts. Aren’t they?
        
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        September 4, 2021 11:30am
      - Twinkletoes
        
        Am in no way a medical person but was heartened when I came across an article in some publication (cannot remember where or when so cannot provide a link) which stated that as the virus progressed it became weaker. Due to a medical condition I cannot have the “vaccine” so it certainly raised my spirits.
        
        Maybe it has given me false hope that eventually, like the Spanish Flu it will die out having run its course. Meanwhile I keep myself healthy and am careful about where I go, fortunately I have always been very slim so life has not changed too much for me. Always the optimist!
        
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        September 4, 2021 11:31am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        Possibly over time it strengthens, then weakens.
        
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        September 4, 2021 1:25pm
      - Aunty
        
        Well I will answer that as I am the only one around here who is qualified to do so. The answer is yes. But strengthen is the wrong word. The correct word is evolve.
        
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        September 5, 2021 10:12am
  - Okahu
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    The CDC and the FDA are pleading with people not to take your horse pills.
    
    https://emergency.cdc.gov/han/2021/han00449.asp
    
    The drug was not designed and has not been tested for the purpose for which various nutbars and loons have become vocal. It has numerous negative and dangerous impacts to vital organs when improperly used. It is particularly dangerous to users of warfarin, a commonly used medication.
    
    The Orange Pig put his considerable weight behind various crank notions, most prominently being hydroxychloroquine, securing an emergency approval. Now removed following evidence of it having no useful effect. Idiots believe idiotic things. Flat earth anyone? Dangerous people promote dangerous ideas. 72 virgins.
    
    In the US Poison centre’s are being deluged with enquiries as to how to treat victims of self administered horse tablets, available as an animal remedy at rural supply stores. You say the history of human use is nearly 100% safe. Not acknowledging that that use was all medically supervised and the users were rarely self medicating having contracted a killer disease that has produced great fear.
    
    The same cranks that appear keen to push this latest miracle cure have a history of deriding vaccines, masks and established societal epidemic control measures.
    
    Your argument from authority is a busted flush. Your marketing however is for the belief that scientifically unqualified but politically motivated commentators have answers ‘they don’t want you to know’. Your position is difficult or impossible to differentiate from a crank and a conspiracy theorist.
    
    Perhaps you could furnish us all with a list of all the various remedies that you have faith in but find no official sanction for. Do include links to your exhaustive evidence and credentials.
    
    You have a crowd of admirers here who hang on your every word. Some sadly obsequious follower jumped aboard a few days back to tell us you are a philosopher that always gets it right.
    
    Congratulations. You have set the groundwork for a cult. Go Patreon and soon you could sit pretty as the
    Prophet in New JonesVale, aka Krazytown. What could go wrong?
    
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    September 4, 2021 9:37am
    - PhilBest
      
      “…that use was all medically supervised and the users were rarely self medicating having contracted a killer disease that has produced great fear…”
      
      Self defeating argument. The treatment has been proven by people on the frontlines in a crisis, using their knowledge and initiative; they saved lives, they devised a protocol for medical supervision. The officials response has been to slow-walk approval, ban the use altogether on technical grounds, and just let people keep dying and compel humanity to have all its eggs in a “vaccines” basket.
      
      Then you claim it is these frontline doctors and their supporters who are responsible for people looking for horse pills!
      
      And your side claims the high moral ground! Same as “progressive” totalitarians in the past. It’s in your DNA, its in your operating system. It’s the “end” that matters, and any pretext will do and mounds of bodies up to any height are acceptable collateral damage.
      
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      September 4, 2021 10:39am
    - Homas
      
      Why is everyone talking about the CDC and COVID? I thought they were some sort of rental accommodation authority.
      
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      September 4, 2021 10:56am
    - krazykiwi
      
      The Orange Pig. Flat earth. 72 virgins. The groundwork for a cult.
      
      Where to start?
      
      Perhaps you could start by seeking help, Okahu. You’re sounding a little unhinged this morning.
      
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      September 4, 2021 11:02am
    - surfing
      
      Interesting how invermectin became a covid drug.
      
      Some doctors gave Ivermectin to their patients and they recovered. Other doctors gave Ivermectin to their patients and saw no improvement.
      
      Generally, it seems people believed the doctors who said Ivermectin worked.
      
      It certainly is possible that Ivermectin works for some people, but, also possible it does not help at all. The official trials will be interesting. Merck will be pushing for it for sure….
      
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      September 4, 2021 12:04pm
      - -D
        
        I can’t tell if you are being facetious or have just not kept abreast of the Ivermectin controversy.
        
        The drug is out of patent, dirt cheap to produce, and no profit in it for anyone…compared to the billions to be made on the back of newly contrived vaccines and treatments. It’s complicated, but the repurposed drug has many many hands-on clinical physician supporters…with more converts coming on board every day.
        
        See: FLCCC.net
        
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        September 4, 2021 5:45pm
    - Surely Knott
      
      . It has numerous negative and dangerous impacts to vital organs when improperly used.” Gosh that sounds terrible.
      
      … [Deleted – don’t misrepresent MedSafe data here. Mod.]
      
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      September 4, 2021 12:59pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        That certainly applies to Panadol, which is, unless I am very much mistaken, very widely available off prescription, no ?
        
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        September 4, 2021 2:28pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      tldr; take rat poison, it’s safer.
      
      Any argument you may have had (highly debatable in any case) is weakened by such idiotic comments as “your horse pills” and “the Orange Pig” and a reliance on the CDC and the FDA as sources of truth. How you must enjoy the daily Performance from the Podium of Truth.
      
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      September 4, 2021 1:42pm
    - Spoff
      
      There was a trial written up in the Lancet that showed no benefit. It was found to have used 4 times the recommended dose and, if memory serves, retracted.
      Many other trials since.
      Mexico sent it to all testing positive in street-corner tests – lowered fatalities by about 60 – 80%.
      Similarly in Peru and Uttar Pradesh where the results were quite spectacular compared with Indian states that did not use it.
      Forget the “horse pills” nonsense. Millions of humans have been prescribed the drug.
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/
      
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      September 4, 2021 5:54pm
    - Spoff
      
      Democrats refuse to drink water as it’s also prescribed to horses
      https://babylonbee.com/news/democrats-refuse-to-drink-water-as-its-also-prescribed-to-horses
      
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      September 4, 2021 6:01pm
    - Fight4NZ
      
      Thank goodness for that modicum of sanity. And also to Steve. Regrettably the 84 upticks for the Ivermectin gospel nonsense is the most telling statistic on this post trail. There is no reasoning with the cult of disbelief.
      
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      September 4, 2021 7:48pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Treatment for worms?
    https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/product-safety-information/faq-covid-19-and-ivermectin-intended-animals
    
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    September 4, 2021 10:35am
  - Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes
    
    https://rumble.com/vlzlr0-dr.-peter-mccullough-the-vaccine-is-failing-in-the-uk-and-israel-offbeat-bu.html a current view on effectiveness
    
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    September 4, 2021 10:51am
  - Spoff
    
    There have been many clinical trials of Ivermectin:
    “Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin.”
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8248252/
    https://c19ivermectin.com/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYv30g7TKVM
    
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    September 4, 2021 11:26am
- virtualmark
  
  I’m interested to know if anyone here is actually taking Ivermectin. Lots of talk, but I suspect not many who are, or will, actually take it.
  
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  September 4, 2021 8:32am
  - James Stephenson
    
    Joe Rogan has upset a lot of people by talking about taking it.
    
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    September 4, 2021 9:53am
  - Sacha
    
    An old friend recently told me (we were discussing how to improve our immune systems) and she told me that some silly people in the US were taking that horse medicine –
    I of course had to disagree with the ‘silly’, and. the ‘horse medicine’.
    Turns out, she heard it on some local tv news show, and she asked me where I got my information, and when I said the internet, asked where did I find it. Youtube is helpful, I said.
    So this morning, I sent her an email with several links, but I doubt she’ll have the patience, or the interest, to watch them all.
    
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    September 4, 2021 10:04am
    - tf78
      
      Fauci has approved the use of Ivermectin – you can’t get much higher approval than him surely.
      
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      September 4, 2021 11:28am
    - surfing
      
      Did one of your links say there is no current evidence it is effective for covid, but , trials are being conducted.
      
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      September 4, 2021 12:06pm
  - Sacha
    
    @ virtualmark: Ivermectin is only available on prescription for certain approved conditions, here in NZ.
    It is not approved for COVID therapy.
    I understand that some GPs will prescribe Ivermectin for other uses, but it requires extra paperwork, and time, and probably most GPs have enough to do already.
    So, at present, talk is all we can do as we wait for the government and its ministry of health to fumble its way through our current situation.
    
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    September 4, 2021 10:09am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Reports on Kiwiblog from people taking Ivermectin would be a valuable contribution to the data…
    
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    September 4, 2021 10:10am
    - PhilBest
      
      I would happily take Ivermectin as recommended in the papers of Doctors like Peter McCullough. And if I got Covid badly, I would wish my doctors to follow everything in the McCullough et al recommendations. Ivermectin at the right time in combination with the other elements of the protocol, switching to anti-inflammatories at the point in the illness where that becomes a problem, switching to anti-coagulants if the clotting stage is reached.
      
      It is institutionalized manslaughter to have slow-walked or obstructed the use of these protocols. Even if it is not a conspiracy aimed at “vaccines and vaccine passports as an end in themselves”, what would have happened differently if it WAS a conspiracy?
      
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      September 4, 2021 10:45am
      - surfing
        
        You’d be quite mad to take Ivermectin based on Peter McCullough’s advice. Wait for the results of the clinical trials at least. Unless you catch covid first, if you can dose correctly at least it shouldn’t harm you.
        
        What’s your BMI/blood pressure/age? If you’re healthy and under 70, you’ve got fairly low odds of dying from covid.
        
        If you’re not, those odds are getting higher and you should really get vaccinated.
        
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        September 4, 2021 12:21pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Surfing, Ivermectin is in fact a very safe drug. In the database that records adverse drug events for a wide range of drugs, Ivermectin stands out with very few problems. And it has been used in close to 4 billion doses. As far as we can tell, it is at least 100 x safer than the Covid vaccines.
        
        The major issue is people taking incorrect dosages because the correct human intended product has been made unavailable.
        
        Given its safety record and minimal side effects it would seem to me to make sense to make proper human dosage treatments widely available – probably the safest way to avoid inappropriate dosing with animal intended products. It is very unlikely to hurt anyone, it is dirt cheap, and as a possibly useful side effect, it will get rid of any unknown parasites one may be harbouring, internal and external (used against scabies).
        
        HCQ is maybe useful but as I have consistently noted, does have far more significant possible side effects especially around heart irregularities that make prescribing it a more intensive process to qualify people to use it safely. Though if qualified it too has a good safety record and is very widely used in tropical countries.
        
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        September 4, 2021 2:48pm
    - Sacha
      
      Come on mm – you know it’s not government approved here in NZ, don’t you?
      There won’t be any data until it has been in use in NZ for some months.
      Until then, we have to rely on the data from overseas usage. It seems to be very effective in uses as a prophylactic, and for initial symptoms.
      Ivermectin is out of patent, and therefore very cheap to produce – Pfizer et al can’t make any profit from it in its present form.
      There is speculation, with some merit I think, that the big drug companies (and we know who they are) are desperately trying to find a new formulation of Ivermectin so that they can supply it it at great cost to patients, and profit to themselves.
      
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      September 4, 2021 11:03am
      - surfing
        
        ” It seems to be very effective in uses as a prophylactic, and for initial symptoms.”
        
        https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD015017.pub2/full?cookiesEnabled
        
        You’d better rethink that.
        
        There are other trials that will give a better idea, but, your claims are pure speculation as of now.
        
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        September 4, 2021 12:27pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Dexamethasone is also out of patent, and so cheaply available as a generic drug … but it is widely used in treating Covid patients.
        
        So perhaps being “out of patent” isn’t the reason the medical establishment doesn’t recommend ivermectin?
        
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        September 4, 2021 12:43pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Hard to obtain in NZ, and doctors have been put on notice as I understand it, NOT to prescribe it.
    
    And for those who repeat the canard that it is “horse medicine” I have to ask why do repeat such obvious lies, are you particularly stupid or what ? Ivermectin was originally developed as a drug for parasitical infections IN HUMANS. It was found to have a similar use in various animals so is used for both.
    
    Various investigations in the past did find that Ivermectin has some anti-viral activity – presumably (but I have not verified myself yet) because it blocks parasites from entering human cells and some viruses use similar cell entry mechanisms such as binding followed by encapsulation. When SARS came along in the early 2000’s people searched for existing drugs with some anti-viral activity to test against SARS. SARS was of course a much worse spreader but considerably more lethal than the current Covid virus. Ivermectin was identified at the time as having promise, was trialled and it appeared to work but SARS died out before any formal trials could be carried out. Same with HCQ, tried with apparent success, which is why Trump mentioned it – he had been briefed on possible treatments. So unlike the f**wits like Okahu above, Trump was making an informed statement that was then twisted for political reasons.
    
    So perfectly reasonable that it should be tried again against a closely related virus. As a side note, although it has some anti-viral activity it is apparently not effective against all viruses, Ebola for one does not appear to be affected by Ivermectin or at least not to any great extent.
    
    So do the trials, check if it works, in other words, do the SCIENCE properly, then use the knowledge gained as best possible.
    
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    September 4, 2021 2:41pm
  - paulscott
    
    I am right smack in the middle of an outbreak in Bangkok. I take Ivermectin 0.2mg /kg once a week as prophylaxis. If I felt suddenly crook as I did about a month ago, I treat every day for a week. If you stay well you have no idea if it worked, but there is also a psychological benefit. By this I mean, that imperative > Don’t just stand there do something <. The infection rate right here is only about one or two in a hundred anyway, PhilBest is on the mark when he describes the airborne nature and ventilation necessity. Many people here live with permanently open windows. When they stopped going to their City Offices it may have helped the situation.
    
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    September 4, 2021 5:07pm
- Kiwi_in_Paris
  
  If it’s good enough for Joe Rogan it’s good enough for me.
  
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  September 4, 2021 8:38am
  - Aurelia
    
    Joe Rogan is a bloody legend
    
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    September 4, 2021 8:57pm
- Vory v zakone
  
  Ivermectin: Where did it come from and why are Americans taking it to try and treat COVID-19?
  
  From July through mid-August, U.S. retail pharmacies handed out more than 88,000 prescriptions of ivermectin per week, according to the CDC.
  
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  September 4, 2021 8:55am
  - Vory v zakone
    
    2015: “Ivermectin … taken free of charge annually by over 250 million people … Its impact on improving the overall health and welfare of hundreds of millions of men, women and children, mostly in poor and impoverished communities, remains unmatched.”
    
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    September 4, 2021 9:13am
    - Ian Boag
      
      Being used by the truckload in Brazil and Peru.
      
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      September 4, 2021 10:55am
      - Don Beckett
        
        And India & Japan.
        
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        September 4, 2021 11:35am
      - -D
        
        India: https://www.bitchute.com/video/bsvK95i6njvd/
        
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        September 4, 2021 5:56pm
  - PhilBest
    
    GP’s in the USA do still have a lot of autonomy that we can only dream of. When you are pre-empted by Pharmac and MedSafe on everything, why would you bother staying knowledgeable about how diseases and medications work at the microbiological level, to such an extent that you might think of or even agree with a “repurposed” use of anything?
    
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    September 4, 2021 10:48am
    - Northshoredoc
      
      Good grief you do spout a great deal of uninformed nonsense old chap.
      
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      September 4, 2021 1:29pm
      - PhilBest
        
        I find the doctors responsible for this, pretty convincing:
        
        https://rcm.imrpress.com/article/2020/2153-8174/RCM2020264.shtml
        Multifaceted highly targeted sequential multidrug treatment of early ambulatory high-risk SARS-CoV-2 infection
        
        Further comment:
        
        https://rcm.imrpress.com/article/2021/2153-8174/RCM21022301.shtml
        SARS-CoV-2 infection and the COVID-19 pandemic: a call to action for therapy and interventions to resolve the crisis of hospitalization, death, and handle the aftermath
        
        See also: “The Reply”
        https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(20)31093-7/fulltext
        
        How long would it take you to come round to accepting this advice, and why?
        
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        September 4, 2021 2:55pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        Northshoredoc (and I’m assuming you’re a MD here), I have a couple of questions.
        
        1. Are you able to prescribe Ivermectin to patients today?
        
        2. Have you had any recent guidance from authorities to not prescribe it for any reason?
        
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        September 4, 2021 5:13pm
      - paulscott
        
        The last people in the world I look to for medical information on Sars-Covid is the NZ Medical profession, and with good reason. When the dust settles the Medical fraternity will be looked on with the suspicion it so richly deserves. T
        
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        September 4, 2021 5:19pm
  - Sacha
    
    For a detailed history, search ‘History of Ivermectin’
    There are many articles, but some of them descend into the ‘horse medicine’ genre and are not ultimately helpful. The first paper that came up details the discovery and development of the drug, and although technical, there is enough to inform the serious non-scientific reader. There are many more. One has to be selective!
    Also, JRE #1671. (Joe Regan in discussion with Dr Bret Weinstein and Dr Pierre Cory) is very worthwhile listening.
    And how about this! I have just tried to link a video by one Dr Ryan Cole – only to find that it
    ‘has been removed for violating Youtube’s Community Guidelines’. So an experienced practitioner has been silenced for reporting on his experience, and expressing his opinions.
    
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    September 4, 2021 10:53am
    - PhilBest
      
      You need to look for the missing video on BitChute, Odysee, and Rumble. Then post links to it hard-out.
      
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      September 4, 2021 12:21pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    There seems to be something like an unstated assumption that it is Vax OR therapeutics, when clearly it should be AND. Take the vax and identify therapeutic regimes that can further reduce risk. This should be priority #1 for the international medical fraternity but it appears Big Pharma and three letter agencies are working against investigation of off-patent therapeutics.
    
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    September 4, 2021 12:05pm
- cmm
  
  Using a drug outside what it was designed for is called off-label, or unapproved, use.
  
  Much has been made of off label use of various drugs for CV19 and people yelling that off-label must be dangerous etc.
  
  Yet hundreds of thousands of doses of off-label meds are given in NZ every day. Same all over the world.
  
  IIRC, something like 20% of meds used with children are off-label.
  
  https://bpac.org.nz/BPJ/2013/March/unapproved-medicines.aspx
  https://www.nzma.org.nz/journal-articles/off-label-or-on-trend-a-review-of-the-use-of-quetiapine-in-new-zealand
  
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  September 4, 2021 9:21am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  It’s a bit of a twisted article pretending at balance. There have been fraudulent papers – on both sides (pushing and denigrating ivermectin), and the continually touted ‘would need a toxic dose to match initial in silico (petri dish) test results doesn’t mean it has no effect at safe levels – where anything that reduces the viral replication rate even slightly at start of infection can have big impact on growth in viral loading due to the magic of exponential functions. Ivermectin also has known anti-inflammatory/immunomodulatory effects that are possible just as important in diminishing deadly cytokine storm that is the real killer in Covid.
  
  But the biggest thing is there are so so many positive peer reviewed published results from 100’s of researchers around the world involving 10’s of thousands of patients. To pretend that they are all frauds is nuts (and incredibly patronising/bigoted). There is also remarkable population wide ‘signal’ from African countries that use ivermectin for parasite prevention as well as other states that took a chance on ivermectin.
  
  There has been a clear FUD campaign from Big Pharma against all therapeutics that potentially competed with highly profitable vaccines. This is standard operating procedure for Big Pharma developed over decades of profit seeking activities that have seen them surreptitiously take control of various gate-keeping institutes through direct financial contributions or via the corrupting carrot of future lucrative job opportunities for friendly bureaucrats who do their bidding.
  
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  September 4, 2021 10:59am
- krazykiwi
  
  This paper from the American Journal of Therapeutics is helpful. The conclusion reads: –
  
  Conclusions:
  Meta-analyses based on 18 randomized controlled treatment trials of ivermectin in COVID-19 have found large, statistically significant reductions in mortality, time to clinical recovery, and time to viral clearance. Furthermore, results from numerous controlled prophylaxis trials report significantly reduced risks of contracting COVID-19 with the regular use of ivermectin. Finally, the many examples of ivermectin distribution campaigns leading to rapid population-wide decreases in morbidity and mortality indicate that an oral agent effective in all phases of COVID-19 has been identified.
  
  The body of the paper makes interesting reading too. The authors enumerate and describe each of the trials from which data has been collated.
  
  There will always be idiots who self medicate on stuff and get ill, or die. But that doesn’t invalidate the efficacy established by these type of trials.
  
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  September 4, 2021 11:33am
- JohnRidd
  
  Ivermectin is being used in a lot of countries.
  
  Check this out.
  https://www.onedaymd.com/2021/08/what-countries-are-using-ivermectin.html
  
  After looking at a lot of evidence, I am convinced it is safe and effective.
  
  Also check out this site for information about ivermectin.
  
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  September 4, 2021 2:06pm
  - JohnRidd
    
    Oops.
    
    I meant to put in this link.
    https://covid19criticalcare.com/
    
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    September 4, 2021 4:19pm
- dcrane
  
  Ivermectin is also known to have “broad spectrum antiviral properties”
  
  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32135219/
  
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  September 4, 2021 3:06pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Just lightweight rubbish from lefty posers sadly.
  
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  September 5, 2021 1:48pm
Tony

Here is a really helpful article that provides some counter-point to some of the comments in previous posts about the effectiveness of the Covid vaccines in Israel.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/08/31/covid-israel-hospitalization-rates-simpsons-paradox/

This article refers to an effect known as the “Simpsons paradox”. Here is a link with respect to that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpson%27s_paradox

An important point to understand when considering reported results from any real-world data is to consider whether the underlying factors that could skew results have been controlled in the analysis.

When researchers undertake an experiment, they try to structure the experiment in such a way that the factors of interest are isolated and extraneous factors are eliminated (double-blind studies etc). However, real world data tends to come in a form where there has been absolutely no control of underlying factors. Hence, making broad comparisons such as comparing vaccinated an unvaccinated groups can produce wildly misleading results.

As the article points out, one of these factors is age. Vaccination programs tend to target the older groups first which tend to be most at risk of negative side effects from Covid. Whereas, unvaccinated people tend to be younger and much more healthy. So, unless this factor is controlled for, then the results will be misleading.

As the article points out, when age cohorts are compared (controlling for the age skew) the hospitalisation rates for vaccinated people are much lower than for unvaccinated people at any age cohort.

However, this fact is not obvious from a broad oversimplified comparison of the data.

I am not against criticism of vaccination programs etc. But I think it is important that the data used for making a case in either direction is properly analysed and reported.
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September 4, 2021 8:04am
- PhilBest
  
  Then once we have vaccinated everyone, we can slap ourselves on the backs if we have proved by doing so, that the vaccines don’t work and the early warning signs were not just an “age cohort” thing?
  
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  September 4, 2021 10:50am
  - Tony
    
    Sounds to me that you are more afraid of the vaccine than the disease.
    
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    September 4, 2021 12:10pm
    - PhilBest
      
      Yes I am actually. I am not at all afraid of a disease with a 99% survival rate, for which I am not in a risk category applying to the great majority of the other 1%, and for which I understand the environmental risk factors that I need to avoid to avoid contracting a serious infection. I have no intention of attending any all-night raves, spending hours in a crowded restaurant with inadequate ventilation, attending a prolonged happy-clappy church event, spending so much as one night in an apartment or hotel room sharing recirculated indoors air with the rest of the building, or spending prolonged time in a rest home. I will get plenty of fresh air every day, continue on the same low-inflammatory diet that has given me years of good health, take Vitamin C, D and Zinc.
      
      There is nothing I want more than to pick up a trace amount of Covid virus in a low risk environment like a supermarket, get “asymptomatically infected”, and thereby have natural immunity that will suffice for the rest of my life. Old people survived the Spanish Flu better than young people because the old people had protection because of something that was going around in the 1870’s.
      
      We are enduring a concerted campaign of terror by means of systematic lies that fly in the face of all public health orthodoxy pre-Covid.
      
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      September 4, 2021 3:05pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      On that point, the latest figures from the UK, which are only split into two groups, under and over 50 years old. This is two months of the data.
      
      50 years old
      Total Vaxxed. 51420. Deaths. 1054 Rate. 0.020
      Total unVaxxed 6724. Deaths. 536. Rate. 0.065
      
      Totals overall
      Total Vaxxed. 113823. Deaths 1081. Rate 0.009
      Total unVaxxed 219716. Deaths. 536. Rate 0.02
      
      The importance of age stratification can be seen, if at this coarse level. The overall numbers suggest no benefit for being vaxxed, yet for the over 50’s the Vaxxed have 1/3 rd of the risk of dying. In the under 50’s it’s a wash with not a huge difference , but a pretty low risk. These BTW are IFR’s only counts infections and doesn’t measure the ability of vaccination to protect against actual infection in the first place.
      
      I would say that these numbers would indeed emphasise the push to vaccinate the vulnerable who are primarily elderly. In the <50 group the numbers are pretty low and quite possibly represent the relatively rare people with existing vulnerabilities to the disease, with the risk to healthy people being considerably lower.
      
      And on that, the UK has decided that for now, there is insufficient evidence to justify vaccinating those under (I think it has moved up to) 16. I’ve been on this before, the risk from the vaccine is quite low (but much higher than any other current vaccine) but so is the risk from Covid for healthy younger people. If there isn’t a clear difference between the benefits from being vaccinated to the risk of being vaccinated, then it is pretty clearly unethical and immoral to vaccinate those people. This may of course change, better knowledge of the real risks, and maybe much better vaccines.
      
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      September 4, 2021 3:12pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        That’s from Tech Briefing 22 from PHE UK.
        
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        September 4, 2021 3:16pm
      - Fight4NZ
        
        Your conclusions seem correct on that 1 dimensional analysis.
        But there is no data there on the effect of inhibiting the spread of the disease. The fundamental premise of vaccinating that it reduces infection spread and degree of infection. High vaccination rates (90%) mean less exposure, less infections. That massively outweighs the minuscule serious negative effects from the vaccine.
        
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        September 4, 2021 10:48pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        Fight4NZ, regarding ‘That massively outweighs the minuscule serious negative effects from the vaccine’.
        
        I’m keen to test that assertion.
        
        Would you mind pointing me to the results of longitudinal safety studies.
        
        As many as you can find. Thanks
        
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        September 5, 2021 7:36am
- Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes
  
  https://rumble.com/vlzlr0-dr.-peter-mccullough-the-vaccine-is-failing-in-the-uk-and-israel-offbeat-bu.html
  
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  September 4, 2021 10:53am
  - Tony
    
    Thanks for that. I will have a look. As I said, I am open to considering information from both sides so long as the analysis is valid and controls for skews in the data.
    
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    September 4, 2021 11:42am
- dcrane
  
  There are a lot of factors to consider. Another I don’t see discussed is the possibility that Israel’s big spike in cases is caused in part by people just generally going about life a lot more than they have been in previous months. This would naturally increase transmission and cases, dramatically so compared to early months in the pandemic. The vaccines seem to be working at least to prevent huge spikes in death numbers that would otherwise occur.
  
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  September 4, 2021 3:09pm
kiwikidsnz

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/126272512/complaint-laid-over-actions-of-senior-judges-in-oranga-tamariki-case

The Attorney general & Law society duck for cover.
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September 4, 2021 8:09am
R

“this person was wearing like a khaki jacket and he had a knife, a pretty big knife — like I would say the size of his arm”

Countdown sells knives that large? I’ve not been to any supermarket and seen large knives for sale. Wouldn’t it be more likely that he brought the knife with him?
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September 4, 2021 8:10am
- Cinematic
  
  May have had a very small arm.
  
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  September 4, 2021 9:52am
- PhilBest
  
  Sounds like the knives popular with the beheading classes in the Middle East
  
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  September 4, 2021 10:50am
- tf78
  
  So much for the serve and protect brigade.
  
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  September 4, 2021 11:31am
Vory v zakone

It seems that Kabul Joe wasn’t looking at his watch to see what the time was the other day.
No in fact he was receiving text messages from his son Hunter, the smartest guy he knows.

“Hey Dad. Totally hypothetical… how would you hide a dead prostitute’s body” ?
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September 4, 2021 8:15am
- Vory v zakone
  
  Meanwhile… The top 10 times you should never look at your watch
  
  10. At your job
  9. At your child’s birth
  8. At your kids baseball game
  7. During sex
  6. On a first date
  5. At your kids graduation 4. At you’re wedding
  3. At church
  2. At your kids recital
  1. At the airport while they are bringing out 13 coffins that hold the remains of 13 brave soldiers who’s deaths you are responsible for.
  
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  September 4, 2021 10:21am
  - Nickc2
    
    It clearly demonstrated the caliber of the man.
    
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    September 4, 2021 10:28am
  - Manu-Rau
    
    # 7 is acceptable if you need to be home by a certain time afterwards.
    
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    September 4, 2021 12:30pm
- curry4me
  
  Vory v zakone: Cool! I’d give you a bazillion up ticks if I could. Definitely stealing that.
  
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  September 4, 2021 11:00am
- Bluegrass
  
  -Biden was also checking what month it was.
  
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  September 4, 2021 12:04pm
Maggie Pie

SEPTEMBER 3, 2020. A day which will go down in infamy @ Countdown Lynnmall.

JULY 2020. In a judgement released by Justice Mathew Downs, he declined the Crown’s application which sought the man be charged under the Terror Suppression Act…..claiming he was planning a ‘knife attack’

https://kiwisfirst.com/judge-file-index/high-court-justice-mathew-downs/
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September 4, 2021 8:16am
- Scott
  
  Sadly these sorts of attacks come from people with the same sort of religious background. These people, let’s call them “Anglicans” share a common belief that God wants them to kill those who don’t believe, the “non Anglicans”. Until we crack down on these Anglicans and deport them rather than molly coddle them we can expect more of this.
  
  Fortunately the prime minister the same day as the attack can inform us this person was a lone wolf and not representative of a general trend.
  Thankfully we also have Paddy Gower to let us know that the mosque shooter was one of a number of radicals. ?
  
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  September 4, 2021 8:33am
  - PhilBest
    
    Including Don Brash and that ilk, the right-wing waaaacist dog-whistlers, all “responsible” and hate speech law can’t come soon enough
    
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    September 4, 2021 10:52am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    We could offer these guys a choice. Long term prison or banishment. We could even pay other states to give them citizenship – a much cheaper option than keeping them here.
    
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    September 4, 2021 11:04am
- Southern Raider
  
  While I normally have no time for the judiciary and believe that they always lean towards their woke side when making judgements, in this case I don’t believe the judge had a choice. We don’t want judges making up the law, no matter how bad this example is
  
  The issue squarely falls at the feet of Collins, Little and Ardern
  
  Collins in 2013 had the opportunity to fix this loop hole as minister of justice and decided it wasn’t a priority
  
  Little and Adhern even without being proactive had this clearly presented to them last year and also chose not to do anything
  
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  September 4, 2021 8:45am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Not quite SR. The Counter-Terrorism Legislation Bill was introduced by Kris Faafoi in April, had its First Reading on 5 May, and currently sits with the Justice select committee.
    
    I would expect the committee to reconvene over the weekend, report the Bill back to the House, and it can be debated through its remaining stages next week.
    
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    September 4, 2021 10:02am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Is it to be re-named Anti-Muslim exclusion or behavioural modification Bill?
      
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      September 4, 2021 10:29am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Who the hell is Adhern? Is she related to Luxton?
    
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    September 4, 2021 11:43am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Mates with John Keys and Mike Hoskins, come on Cap’n – keep up 🙂
      
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      September 4, 2021 1:47pm
- Ruawai
  
  I know we have been in lockdown a while Maggie but I am pretty sure it is 2021 now.
  
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  September 4, 2021 8:47am
- 3-coil
  
  Thankyou for this link Maggie – what a fantastic source of information on our judges! This answers a number of questions as to how this atrocity may have come to pass.
  
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  September 4, 2021 8:47am
- riffer
  
  It’s tricky all right. If we had terror suppression laws that were robust to deter anything, the impact on our civil liberties would be far more severe that our population would be willing to accept. Easy to say in hindsight we should have stopped this fellow.
  
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  September 4, 2021 8:53am
- Nookin
  
  Don’t read too much into the comments on this site, Maggie. The publisher, Spartan News, is run by one Vincent Ross Siemer. Mr Siemer and the court system, including crown counsel and judges, have “enjoyed” a prolonged and not particularly happy relationship. I suspect that if you go thru the list of Judges, you may find that those most harshly criticised are those who have not subscribed to Mr Seimer’s views on what the law should be. For example, Downs J, prior to his appointment, was prosecuting counsel in one of Siemer’s more controversial cases.
  The term “grain of salt” comes to mind.
  From memory, Siemer and the late Penny Bright were avid supporters of each other. Neither were known for their graciousness toward the judiciary.
  It might also be noted that Downs J, concerned that the law was inadequate, sent a copy of his decision to the Attorney-General, Solicitor-General and Law Commission in the expectation that changes might be made. It is hardly his fault that the Government sat on it.
  
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  September 4, 2021 9:10am
- R
  
  Justice Downs’ poor interpersonal skills are likely a reflection of his falling somewhere on the autistic spectrum and his consequent lack of empathy. Other than Crown counsel, few lawyers would choose to appear before him.
  
  For once, I’d like Vince to tell it like it is LOL
  
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  September 4, 2021 9:11am
Kiwi_in_Paris

This article on “leaky vaccines” is more relevant than ever.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/leaky-vaccines-enhance-spread-of-deadlier-chicken-viruses
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September 4, 2021 8:16am
KevO'Brien

Are we really going down the yellow brick road?
https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-09-02-former-pfizer-vp-warns-booster-shot-extermination-weapon.html#

Prof Chossudovsky puts the picture together:
https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-2020-worldwide-corona-crisis-destroying-civil-society-engineered-economic-depression-global-coup-detat-and-the-great-reset/5730652

Aren’t we being enslaved by handouts?
https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/economics-disaster-capitalism
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September 4, 2021 8:19am
- PhilBest
  
  As Reiner Fuellmich says, in April 2020 he’d have said these people were mad. The longer time goes on, the harder it is to explain everything without dark forces deeply entrenched everywhere it matters.
  
  Look, “The Great Reset” is not a “right wing conspiracy theory”. It is in plain sight; its adherents call it that; it is them who devised the term in the first place. Even if the objective is to be attained by total monetary system breakdown for which a genius “solution” will be rolled out just as people were dying in the millions, that alone would suffice. The monetary expansion “necessitated” by the novel approach of “paying millions of quarantined people funny money to keep them alive” will bring that end game closer.
  
  If this had been suggested in 1918, everyone would have said you were mad. I can remember Social Credit being mocked mercilessly when I was young. What changed in the meantime? People got smarter, intuitions got sharper? I don’t think so.
  
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  September 4, 2021 10:59am
krazykiwi

Here’s one for the stats junkies in our midst. The author of this post has been analysing the data-laden Primary Health England weekly technical briefings to source evidence of evolving vaccine effectiveness. To wit: –

PHE Data Update: Vaccine Effectiveness Just 15% in Over-50s, 27% in Under-50s. Deaths Cut by 74% in Over-50s, But Just 20% in Under-50s
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September 4, 2021 8:25am
- Albert_Ross
  
  The more you make the case that vaccines aren’t effective, the more you provide Jacinda with the excuse that she is looking for to keep on with the border closure and lockdowns, and so divert attention and scrutiny from her Government’s failure to make any aspect of New Zealand life better.
  
  Why would you do that?
  
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  September 4, 2021 8:31am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Mirror Cloward-Priven strategy?
    
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    September 4, 2021 10:54am
  - PhilBest
    
    Because you people who think compliance, on your part and on the part of everyone else (bullied into it by you) is going to get your freedoms back, are fools. There is ALWAYS going to be “something else” that everybody “now needs to do, sorry – then you’ll get your freedoms back”. Just two weeks to flatten the curve, remember?
    
    https://static.wixstatic.com/media/faab9f_05a5d967147a4b8da7f95eed3fb250cb~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_417,h_341,fp_0.50_0.50,q_90/faab9f_05a5d967147a4b8da7f95eed3fb250cb~mv2.jpg
    
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    September 4, 2021 11:01am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      I am genuinely trying to understand here.
      
      How do you think that arguing that vaccines aren’t effective will persuade Jacinda to stop with the lockdowns and border closures, or help with the election of somebody who will?
      
      If neither of these is your objective, then what is?
      
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      September 4, 2021 12:16pm
      - PhilBest
        
        My objective is actually to combat this “pandemic” effectively. For a start, the officials could get it right how it even spreads.
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJSPL9LQCiM
        
        Once you know how it spreads, you can quickly work out why it actually kills anyone or makes them very sick rather than “asymptomatically infected”. It is a factor of “exposure” – virus concentration in the air multiplied by the length of time you were inhaling it. Then you can progress from that, to allowing life to go on in conditions under which herd immunity will be attained by means of asymptomatic infections.
        
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        September 4, 2021 3:11pm
- virtualmark
  
  Or, alternatively, here is the presentation that the CDC itself used in its meeting on whether or not to approve booster shots. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-08-30/09-COVID-Oliver-508.pdf
  
  Slides 13 through 27 are worth a look, in particular slide 23 that shows the waning vaccine effectiveness by age group.
  
  Nothing in this pack shows vaccine effectiveness at the low levels you’re alleging, and I would have to expect the presentation the CDC itself uses would be based on solid numbers and science.
  
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  September 4, 2021 11:15am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Interesting deck. I note the Slide 23 data is March to July in US. The stats in the article I linked are July to August in the UK.
    
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    September 4, 2021 11:51am
  - Surely Knott
    
    1 Worth noting that the FDA vaccine chief and deputy have handed in their resignations as the decisions to give boosters and vaccinate children come up.
    
    2. Looks like the UK’s regulatory body (JCVI) does not reommend the jab for healthy kids due to the risks. And advise AGAINST vaccinating children 12-15. What risks? Have we ever been told about the risks of vaccinating our children. Has the media ever run a balanced article on this. Have we ever been told about the particular risk to teen boys in nz media or health advise. It also looks like the politicians will go against the recommendations of their independent health body.
    
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9956419/Shock-JCVI-experts-decide-NOT-recommend-Covid-jabs-healthy-children-aged-12-15.html
    
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/two-senior-u-s-fda-vaccine-leaders-step-down-as-agency-faces-decision-on-boosters-1.5568881
    
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    September 4, 2021 1:46pm
Simon

Cindy the midwit

“We have utilised every legal and surveillance power available to us to try and keep people safe from this individual.”

Ok this will be a lie. The default position is that she is lying. Every legal power. Track record suggests this is a lie.

, Ardern described them as a “violent ideology and Isis-inspired”, adding she was confident the man was a lone-wolf attacker.

Ok – so is there anyone else on 24 hour police surveillance? How many lone wolfs are there?

“Yes [my heart sank] because I knew we had been doing everything we could, everything that we could. So yes, I was absolutely gutted.”

Cindy the midwit is gutted. As gutted as those victims in the actual knife attack she failed to protect?

Anyway the police as usual carrying out the death penalty NZ style. NZ has the death penalty carried out in the streets in stressful & dangerous circumstances because of weak on crime political / judicial class. This from earlier in August.

“A man who admitted punching the head of a young MMA fighter who later died in hospital has been sentenced to six months’ home detention, which the victim’s friend likens to a Covid restriction, not justice.”

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/448851/mma-fighter-fau-vake-attack-man-sentenced-to-home-detention

This is cindy’s justice system she wanted and advocated for and over saw the terrorist.
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September 4, 2021 8:26am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “Ok – so is there anyone else on 24 hour police surveillance? How many lone wolfs are there?”
  
  IIRC a couple of years ago Rebecca Kitteridge the head of the SIS said there were about 50 at any one time.
  
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  September 4, 2021 10:02am
  - Bluegrass
    
    The Chinese call it death by a thousand cuts….
    
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    September 4, 2021 12:11pm
- Sede Vacante
  
  “ISIS-inspired” is s cop-out designed to obfuscate the fact the ISIS is explicitly inspired by Islam – as in “Islamic State.” Now, I do however recognise the distinction between a follower of Islam, and an Islamist (i.e. a radical Muslim), but the common root is the Quran and the teachings of Mohammed. To deny this connection is dishonest and a cynical political expedient.
  
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  September 4, 2021 10:10am
  - Fight4NZ
    
    Why?
    There are Christian wackjobs and salt of the earth Christians. You wouldn’t distinguish between them?
    
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    September 4, 2021 11:09pm
Maggy Wassilieff

The takeover of Plunket

https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2021/09/03/petition-that-disappeared-was-signed-by-pakeha-mums-who-fear-race-now-comes-first-in-plunkets-baby-care-priorities/
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September 4, 2021 8:27am
- kevn
  
  @Maggy… Scummy gummint driving it.
  
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  September 4, 2021 8:47am
- All_on_Red
  
  The March through the Institutions is almost complete
  
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  September 4, 2021 9:01am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    In the case of the Plunket Society much of the takeover has gone under the radar…
    
    Local branches have lost their centres and assets after centralised “restructuring”.
    
    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/plunket-accused-underhand-tactics-local-communities-fight-take-back-control-centres
    
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    September 4, 2021 9:40am
- Souvlaki
  
  Nationals campaign against this Apartheid has been weak and uncoordinated imo.
  ‘Having a conversation’ is no substitute for a simple point by explanation of what is actually happening under our torpid noses.
  If Collins cant grab the bull effectively by the horns, let’s get someone who can please !
  
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  September 4, 2021 9:17am
  - cmm
    
    There is no way that all this change has happened in the three years since National was pushed out of power.
    
    Sure, things have accelerated under Labour’s watch, but it takes longer than that to fully infect these organisations.
    
    There were no purges when Labour came to power. The woke staff were already in place in NIWA, MoH, education, police, etc etc.
    
    The only reasonable conclusion is that the wokifying happened through National’s watch too.
    
    If you’re looking for a solution from National, you’re looking in the wrong place.
    
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    September 4, 2021 9:28am
    - PhilBest
      
      +1000. Nailed the problem. I say again and again, the John Key government was Helen Clark’s 4th, 5th and 6th terms.
      
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      September 4, 2021 3:12pm
  - Jack5
    
    Perhaps Collins isn’t the problem, but the party’s Labour-lite wing that keeps pulling to the Left.
    
    For the background of the Maori language teacher who became a GP and described Plunket as a “white supremacist organisation,” this may help:
    
    https://www.anzsog.edu.au/about/contact-directory/dr-rawiri-jansen
    
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    September 4, 2021 9:39am
  - curry4me
    
    Souvlaki: That’s why people see ACT as the actual opposition.
    
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    September 4, 2021 11:06am
- krazykiwi
  
  Successive governments have nurtured racism for their advantage. And voters have stood by for fear of being branded wasaaasist!. This type of divisiveness seldom ends well.
  
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  September 4, 2021 9:29am
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  ..”National Hauora Coalition clinical director Dr Rawiri Jansen says the organisation should be defunded and disestablished.
  He outlined the reasons for his scorched-earth approach:
  “I think they are trying to recycle a white supremacist organisation and I don’t support it. They are not fit for purpose. They are not fit for our Aotearoa health system going forward…” ”
  
  Amazing comments, from someone who should be dismissed as a hyperbolic loonie.
  
  I googled the guy. Looks about as Maori as I do, but many photos have him wearing half a kilo of pounamu on his chest.
  
  Wearing such adornment like that is the height of signaling & compensating. (I sometimes had worn greenstone, Chinese jade, or celtic symbol pendants in the past, but wear them against my skin and out of sight).
  I have noted some blond and blue eyed Maori are equally shrill about ‘decolonisation’ and ‘equity’, from positions of privilege (trained lawyers, and other infecting institutions).
  These people are cancer.
  I they want to decolonise, they can open their veins and loose about >90% of their blood.
  ….And they will be helping the earth in general at the same time.
  
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  September 4, 2021 9:50am
  - tf78
    
    If you don’t like Plunket, don’t use it. Everything “White” these days seems to be wrong in their eyes except our wonderful water reticulation systems which we have spent years paying for. They just can’t have it both ways.
    
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    September 4, 2021 12:08pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Plunket has done a power of good.
  If Maori activists feel aggrieved they can have their own organisation. They should not attempt to dictate what is appropriate for Pakeha. They are not superior citizens of their would be New Tyranny.
  
  My first 5 children were all Plunket babies and the nurses provided excellent in home care on call and helped the mothers recover too. The social care of the mothers is not much recognised but was extremely important. That will never go away.
  Plunket was more then babycare.
  
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  September 4, 2021 10:22am
  - tf78
    
    Kev, Plunket were/are a God send – so practical, looking after mum first so she could wisely take care of baby.
    
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    September 4, 2021 12:10pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I’m sure ethnic groups, like Maori, could have their own.
      
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      September 4, 2021 2:33pm
- Unity
  
  When are the people going to rise up en masse and insist we put an end to all of this racist separatist special treatment based on race nonsense?!! We are all people with the same needs and it’s long overdue for race to be shelved and we all progress together as citizens of New Zealand (not Aotearoa). I really don’t know how these ‘special needs’ people don’t feel demeaned by the implication they need special separate treatment based on race. I know many who get by on their own efforts and are indistinguishable from the rest of us, proving that not managing is nothing to do with race but more to do with not making a personal effort but taking the easy option of continually holding their upturned palm out.
  
  Leave Plunket alone!! They have been wonderful to so many right through the ages.
  
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  September 4, 2021 11:31am
- WaynelSexton
  
  Once again proving demographics matter. Moral of the story, New Zealand settler posterity should of had more kids.
  
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  September 4, 2021 12:41pm
Vory v zakone

For sure Kev. And speaking of former Pfizer executives, there is this, written a couple of months ago, from Michael Yeadon…

“At the heart of the fraud not only on U.K. people but much of the world, every one of the main narrative points about the virus is a lie. No exceptions.

While new, the virus is related to six other coronaviruses, four of which are endemic. So lots of prior immunity. It was never going to kill many, and only those very close to end of life.

Asymptomatic transmission is a total lie. Masks are not necessary nor do they work.

They’ve been tested and published work proves they have no impact on respiratory virus transmission. Lockdown doesn’t do anything because almost all transmission occurred in institutions, so they smashed the economy and civil society for nothing.

PCR testing is a joke, done as it is, with no definition of false positive rate, way too high a number of cycles, a variable number of probe / primer pairs and no normalising for amount of genetic material in the samples. They used inexperienced staff and generated massive cross contamination. Ignore it all. The ridiculous “within 28 days of a positive test” rule was novel and greatly exaggerated claimed numbers of covid deaths.

Variants are almost identical to the original
sequence. 0.3% drift in 17 months is irrelevant, you won’t need top up vaccines for a half century at this rate.

Literally nothing is true.

I infer that VaxPass is the near term goal and that’s totalitarian tyranny.

The end goal is to order us all to accept top up
vaccines which will kill billions Ignore if you wish,

I cannot save you.

This is my 40th year of studying and applying biological sciences in the service of understanding and treating human disease. I’m the only senior ex big pharmaceutical company staffer speaking out anywhere in the world as far as I can tell.

I’m an ordinary citizen with solid science skills and intolerant attitude to injustice

That’s all

My life is over. I will never regain full freedom So I’m going to march toward the guns. Fuck all those criminals.

They need to be at Nuremberg 2.0″
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September 4, 2021 8:28am
- KevO'Brien
  
  I’m an ordinary citizen with solid science skills and intolerant attitude to injustice
  
  Me too.
  Sensing the constant injustice is hard to take. Fortunately I’m a Christian so I’m not alone.
  
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  September 4, 2021 10:26am
NK

Why can this government pass laws (in April) under urgency in three days to remove the ability of landlords to claim interest on mortgage loans, and at the same time extend the bright line test to ten years, but can’t or won’t or hasn’t gone into urgency to make the required changes to the Terrorism Suppression Act?
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September 4, 2021 8:32am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Judith Collins last night prompted the Government, advising that National will support the remaining stages of the Counter Terrorism Bill being passed under urgency. The Bill had its first reading in May this year.
  
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  September 4, 2021 9:34am
  - NK
    
    Too little, too late, Tony. Where was Judith in May this year?
    
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    September 4, 2021 10:25am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Irrelevant. Where was the bloomin’ gulliblement then? All over the place as usual.
      
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      September 4, 2021 10:27am
    - DeepBlue
      
      The Greens and Maori Party are against this legislation. You can bet the Maori caucus are agin too. Labour would be fretting over it implementation.
      
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      September 4, 2021 11:06am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Voting for the Counter-Terrorism Legislation Bill at First Reading, along with ACT, whilst the Maori Party and the Greens opposed it. Your point?
      
      Since then, the Bill has sat at the Justice committee, chaired by Ginny Anderson. I would hope that its report-back could be expedited.
      
      For interest, here’s the Hansard of the First Reading debate: https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20210505_20210505_48
      
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      September 4, 2021 11:35am
      - Prince
        
        Ginny Anderson ? What possible qualification would she have for that job ?
        
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        September 4, 2021 1:39pm
    - Prince
      
      Probably still in Opposition, fending off journos and cartoonists blaming her for every failure of this Govt.
      
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      September 4, 2021 1:37pm
      - david
        
        Always remember that Labour hold an absolute majority in the Parliament. Only that which Labour wants to happen, actually happens and the rest of the Parliament are just spectators in effect.
        So don’t anyone dare to suggest that anyone other than Labour can in any possible way be responsible for the priorities put on Parliaments deliberations or decisions.
        New Zealand the way you wanted it, take it, it’s yours.
        Me, I want something better.
        
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        September 4, 2021 2:04pm
  - Clownworld
    
    Complicit in this “knee jerk” reaction are our wonderful politicians , trying on face of it to appear more staunch than each other.
    
    Imagine you need to take away freedom, use an isis crisis to get what you want. Even better get the “opposition” to push forthe changes you want. Feels like “minority report” , and watch bad law done under urgency. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. This govt couldn’t reduce poverty or build houses and fix the housing crisis. What makes you think they can put well thought out terrorist laws in place.
    
    Will need to see what the bill proposal is , but I expect at last minute ammendments anyway. The devil is in the detail.
    
    As for the woke narrative Countingdown now banning sale knives is simply following what happened in UK. Woke virtual signalling fixes nothing.
    
    What is next? Banning cars? ( oh wait Greens are trying that already)
    
    2021 Year of Woke Accleration
    
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    September 4, 2021 2:01pm
I remember when

Covid Lockdowns:
Since 19 March, 2020, when indoor gatherings were limited to no more than 100, we have been under some level of covid control.
We are now into our 77th week and more than two week’s into a Level 3/4 lockdown.
10/5/21: Man stabs 5 in supermarket knife attack at Countdown in Dunedin.
3/09/21: Extremist stabs 6 in a supermarket in New Lynn, Auckland.
While both attacks can be explained was ‘lockdown’ the ‘final straw.’
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September 4, 2021 8:33am
Liberal Cliche

I see Judith calling for more laws to be introduced onto NZ citizens because of the action of foreigners.

“National will support the Government”

This is all you ever hear National, there is no light between them and the radical marxists. No, arguing over minor differences in opinions on the same projects does not make you “opposition”

We need a leader to say enough, no more ISIS brides, no more economic migrants. If you’re not protecting NZ citizens you’re not doing the job you were elected as guardians of the people.

https://twitter.com/JudithCollinsMP/status/1433688231103451139
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September 4, 2021 8:36am
- Tony Stuart
  
  The law had to be changed, because it was not possible to charge someone with planning a terrorist act. That’s why S was in the community in the first place.
  
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  September 4, 2021 9:40am
  - NK
    
    But it is possible to charge someone with preparing to commit a crime.
    
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    September 4, 2021 9:45am
    - Jack5
      
      I tried to post yesterday about the young Muslim would-be terrorist who was on charges in Christchurch after he planned a car and knife massacre in the city.
      
      The sentence was ludicrously light, and led to golf lessons, but he was at least charged, and went into custody when he didn’t comply with the gentle supervision restrictions.
      
      How come charges against him were possible if not against the Auckland supermarket terrorist, who, by the way, according to witnesses wielded a type of small sword, not, as per official statements, a knife picked up in the building?
      
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      September 4, 2021 9:50am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Yes, but the sentencing options would be far more limited.
      
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      September 4, 2021 10:10am
    - tf78
      
      NK – Intent rings a bell!
      
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      September 4, 2021 12:15pm
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    He is in the community because it was either impossible to determine his end golds in 2011 or someone decided New Zealand should take a punt on him and his idealistic beliefs.
    Obviously half a decade later his intentions were very clear for the judiciary and politicians to see.
    The public were denied the same level of scrutiny.
    How about a law that states, you can be deported to your home country immediately for particular offences with jail time included.
    Can only do it with dual passport holders.
    The other area that I fall off the chair laughing at is if one of your parents was a NZ citizen, you are entitled to citizenship regardless of where you are born. Think about the ramifications of this law.
    
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    September 4, 2021 10:14am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Are we all to be fitted with implants so our thoughts can be read in real time? (Schwab would endorse that.)
    
    Citizens and those lawfully in NZ can only be allowed to roam free in lawful physical boundaries. What sort of brainless society would we have if the Police were to decide in each case that so & so had to be locked away because of wrong thinking? Even Mr Plod himself has problems when he allows Maori activists to do as they please in contravention of peace and law.
    
    The current Police practice of discretely watching someone very closely is perhaps the best we can achieve. We may not like what he reads or his other background but we don’t have provision to lock someone away except under the mental health laws because of their perceived unhealthy/undesired beliefs. If those changed over time anyone could be at risk from an excitable govt. Anyone could be charged as a potential terrorists–Christians could be prime candidates too.
    
    Think before you legislate.
    
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    September 4, 2021 10:45am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    I realise that you are National Party man first, second and last Tony, but your leader needs to be a damned site more explicit about exactly what she will and will not support in these changes.
    
    The blanket statement of “we will support the government” is not good enough. Collins, and frankly the rest of the party need to explicitly talk about how such laws could not be weaponised by the Left as a follow-up to the White Supremacist scream-fest two years ago.
    
    You really want to be left at the mercy of those who inhabit The Standard?
    
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    September 4, 2021 11:06am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      I haven’t read the Counter-Terrorism Legislation Bill Tom, but I will be over the weekend. The Bill had its First Reading on 5 May 2021, and is currently with the Justice select committee, chaired by Ginny Anderson. The National/Act members on the committee are Simon Bridges, Simeon Brown, Mark Mitchell and Nicole McKee. The other members of the committee are all Labour backbenchers. Both National and Act supported the Bill’s progress to select committee. The Greens and the Maori Party did not.
      
      I would hope Anderson has already convened a Zoom meeting to review the Bill’s progress in her committee. If it is sufficiently advanced to enable a report-back, then that should happen without delay, after which the Bill can proceed through its remaining stages.
      
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      September 4, 2021 11:29am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Judith Collins could be out of order too commenting on a Bill before a select committee. Parliament has its protocols. Signalling the Opposition agrees to a speedy report back and progress is proper. The Opposition can then bring forth supplementary order papers to introduce amendments for debate.
        
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        September 4, 2021 2:44pm
  - Okahu
    
    I like you offerings today Tony. And I wholeheartedly agree with your concerns regarding the Sri Lankan community, 90% of whom are not aligned with the ‘religion of peace’.
    
    Of course if you fight for ISIS you wont be flying the Sri Lankan flag. He is (was) a proponent for a caliphate that replaces nations with the transnational application of the absurd mumblings of an illiterate 7th psychopath and his war mongering apologists. His nationality wasn’t chosen. His allegiance to the most extreme views of his belief system was.
    
    It’s impolite, but you might ask one intent on maintaining or spreading their holy book’s wisdom amongst us just what is the appropriate force to be applied when a husband whips his wife, as required by that book. On second thoughts, don’t if you adhere to the bible with its genocide, rape and slavery provisions. Could get heated.
    
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    September 4, 2021 2:21pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Sri Lanka is seriously Buddhist. (Peaceful people.)
      
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      September 4, 2021 2:49pm
Loddenthinks

The suppression of information about the Christchurch terrorist was swift and far-reaching. His name doesn’t get mentioned, it was made illegal to even read, let alone share, his manifesto, and we now have so many people afraid of their own shadow due to “rising far-right and alt-right extremism and white supremacy” – which I’ve never encountered in 61 years and yet is seemingly everywhere – that Paddy Gower was given massive funding to produce a program on “Hate”.

The Muslim community also protested loud and long that the NZ intelligence and police services were treating them with suspicion, and that was how Tarrant was able to slip through the net. The reality is Police were incompetent at basic vetting procedures, rather than picking on Islamists, though it’s entirely natural they should keep an eye on them.
So I was sure that the government would rapidly put suppression orders on this most recent terrorist act, but I was astonished to find the reverse to be the case. In fact they made urgent injunctions and applications on Friday evening, to lift suppression orders that are automatically put in place when someone is killed by the state.

Could it be that the PM is desperate to show that this is an individual, not a religion, faith or ideology, and she’s evidently prepared to pull strings to achieve their outcome?

To recap: Tarrant – it was down to an ideology, there’s far too much of it in New Zealand and we’re going to weed it out. All details are suppressed.

Countdown terrorist – it was purely down to an individual and an individual acting alone. it’s not an issue of ideology (even though he called out Allahu Akbar) and nobody else in the Muslim or Sri Lankan communities had anything to do with this. All suppression orders are lifted.
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September 4, 2021 8:37am
- Liberal Cliche
  
  Great post. This is not about any victims to Ardern this is about protecting the “brand” the police are a tool of brand Ardern and they are shameless in enforcing it.
  
  We have a government that practice’s the religion of critical race theory and it shows.
  
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  September 4, 2021 9:03am
  - Okahu
    
    True that. National would never use the ‘we will fund more police’ line to brand themselves as “tough on crime”. Never. Because.
    
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    September 4, 2021 1:49pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  It’s certainly true that what the Government is saying and doing now, is wildly inconsistent with what they said and did in response to the Christchurch attack.
  
  Let’s not let the same be said of us here. If it was wrong then to blame an entire community for the abhorrent behaviour of one of its members, then it’s wrong now. If it was wrong then to take largely ineffective action against honest and blameless people as a knee-jerk reaction, then it’s wrong now.
  
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  September 4, 2021 9:09am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I concur. I have a number of Sri Lankan friends on social media, some of whom are employed in the medical field. They are no more to blame for this man’s actions that you or I. One of them tweeted this earlier today:
    
    In the aftermath of the terrorist attack in Auckland yesterday, I’m thankful there were no children around, that the people injured will hopefully make it because of my amazing colleagues and that an ICU bed doesn’t have a terrorist in it.
    
    The last point is particularly valid!
    
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    September 4, 2021 10:16am
  - Scott
    
    Albert, why that’s a very liberal view. However how many radicals does it take to change our minds? Like correct me if I’m wrong but we’ve seen this type of attack before overseas many many times.
    A man running around stabbing people with knives has happened in Britain, in France, in Belgium etc etc etc. Who are these people? Do they have anything in common?
    Think hard now ?
    
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    September 4, 2021 10:25am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    I agree completely Albert. Both acts were reprehensible and as the saying goes, comparisons are odious.
    
    It distresses me greatly to see the PM politicise this act and take steps to “protect the brand” as others have noted, and we should never forget the impact this has on the victims, their families, the Countdown workers and shoppers, the first responders and those that will be unfairly tarred with the same brush.
    
    It’s the reaction of the state that has me most upset, and Ardern’s dishonesty and hypocrisy. For example yesterday she was (probably correctly) vague about many of the details, yet one thing she was absolutely certain of – the “lone wolf” narrative and that nobody else was involved, which she could not possibly know.
    
    This scumbag arrived in New Zealand in 2011, and something happened while he was here to radicalise him. That seldom happens in a vacuum.
    
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    September 4, 2021 10:57am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    We cannot blame a community for the work of one. But it is hard to separate out the acceptable when their religion requires adherence to violence to anyone falling out or not being one of them in the first place.
    
    NZ has been tolerant to date as we have been a free society and want to keep it that way. Are we to now set a higher bar on acceptable religious thought and practice? All communities have activists and bystanders. They can all be involved in common beliefs but some are given to furthering their cause and making news. We have our climate change warriors too.
    
    We should consider seriously limits on extending migrant communities with a violent commission to convert.
    Don’t let this hide our Maori activist breakout.
    
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    September 4, 2021 11:19am
  - Jack5
    
    Muslims make up less than a tenth of the people of Sri Lanka, and have an interesting a background.
    
    Where they stood in Sri Lanka’s war on the Tamil minority is interesting (see link below).
    
    The civil war and continuing problems in Sri Lanka are a frightening warning of the drawbacks of multiculturism.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Lankan_Moors
    
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    September 4, 2021 11:58am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      The civil war and continuing problems in Sri Lanka are a frightening warning of the drawbacks of ~~multiculturalism~~ religion.
      
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      September 4, 2021 1:52pm
      - Jack5
        
        If there’s just one religion, perhaps less of a problem. More than one mainstream religion, you have multiculturism.
        
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        September 4, 2021 2:30pm
- Hacked-Off
  
  Exactly my thoughts Loddenthinks,
  When she said that phrase I was shouting hypocrite at the TV. The point is that the 15 March massacre fitted neatly into a narrative of White Supremacy, which in fact as you rightly point out does not exist here in NZ, while the incident yesterday in fact verifies real Intelligence Community concerns that this Government dismisses. Remember that Ardern and Co are gearing us up for He Puapua and one atrocity fits their narrative and the other – or future other attacks like it do not. Hence both are framed differently for political reasons.
  
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  September 4, 2021 9:09am
  - Ruawai
    
    This sort of thing seems to manifest itself about a generation after Islam immigrants living in a western country.
    
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    September 4, 2021 10:11am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Hey poo poos will go down the drain where it belongs.
    
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    September 4, 2021 11:20am
- Inandout
  
  Lodd, the radio ‘messages’ regarding this shooting emphasise that Jacinda said it was ISIS inspired, that cannot be argued with apparently. The Covid lady follows soon after to soothe the populace by announcing ‘Aotearoa, your time is here for the vaccination’.
  Calm descended on the land.
  
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  September 4, 2021 9:14am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    I have absolutely no doubt that if she’d had any choice, she would have said “We may never know what motivated this damaged and unwell person to take the steps he took. Be kind.”
    
    Unfortunately for her, the multiple eye-witness accounts and recordings of him shouting that his god is the greatest one served to scupper that angle.
    
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    September 4, 2021 1:55pm
- Justitia
  
  Yes, the Countdown terrorist was a “lone wolf” when he attacked innocent people in the name of his religion yesterday. But after Christchurch, all those of European heritage are forever “white supremacists” who should be threatened with imprisonment if they voice their opinions. Stands to reason.
  
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  September 4, 2021 9:22am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Govts in turn have lost their freedom after previously taking away the peoples.
    
    Amateur, Ardern is out of her depth. The quicker she passes the baton to Judith the better.
    
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    September 4, 2021 11:22am
- Yvette
  
  Loddenthinks – Could it be that the PM is desperate to show that this is an individual, not a religion, faith or ideology …
  
  “What happened today was despicable. It was hateful, it was wrong. It was carried out by an individual, not a faith,” Ardern said. “He alone carries the responsibility for these acts.” – Washington Post
  
  I am disappointed our Prime Minister does not recognise ISIS as a faith – or perhaps more accurately a political religion which has appealed to world-wide individual action.
  She should “Know your enemy” – Sun Tzu
  
  The Islamic State is no mere collection of psychopaths. It is a religious group with carefully considered beliefs, among them that it is a key agent of the coming apocalypse.
  
  ISIS – The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, also known as the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, officially known as the Islamic State and also known by its Arabic acronym Daesh, is a militant group and former unrecognized proto-state that follows a Salafi jihadist doctrine. – Wikipedia
  
  Salafi jihadism or jihadist-Salafism is a transnational, hybrid religious-political ideology based on the Sunni sect of Islamism, seeking a global caliphate, advocacy for “physical” (military) jihadism and Salafi concepts of returning to what adherents believe to be “true Islam”. – Wikipedia
  
  … much of what the group [Islamic State] does looks nonsensical except in light of a sincere, carefully considered commitment to returning civilization to a seventh-century legal environment, and ultimately to bringing about the apocalypse.
  – The Atlantic, WHAT ISIS REALLY WANTS
  https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
  This article is dated March 2015, but is probably still quite relevant.
  
  ISIS painstakingly staged their executions with the purpose of a maximum of impact, and with a seeming emphasis on a seventh century context.
  
  After Decades of War, ISIS and Al Qaeda Can Still Wreak Havoc
  Twenty years of military action by the United States and its international partners aimed at stamping out terrorism have exacted major tolls on Al Qaeda and the Islamic State, killing many of their fighters and leaders and largely preventing them from holding territory.
  But both groups have proved able to adapt, terrorism experts say, evolving into more diffuse organizations that continually seek out new global trouble spots to take root and put their violent extremism into action.
  – New York Times
  
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  September 4, 2021 9:35am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Islam is highly fragmented–there are still divisive wars over the rightful successor to Muhammad. Their Koran does not describe a religion of peace but it’s either join in or die.
    
    The Biblical Old Testament is bloody too in parts and Christians get a hard time about that. When Satan left Heaven he took a lot of angels with him and some mated with humans on earth. They created the Nephilim which included giants. The Divine order was given that they and their descendants were to be vigorously wiped out. God was not going to have His human creation tainted that way.
    
    The birth Of Jesus Christ brought a new season. People could be right with God and enjoy those blessings by accepting His Son as their personal Saviour. Christianity now brought a message of peace to all on earth. Other religions continue but the Bible makes it plain those are inspired as continuing works of Satan.
    
    The Second Coming of Jesus is awaited. That will eventually deal with the presence of Satan among us here on earth.
    
    If this all sounds far fetched ask a believer what difference has God made in their lives?
    
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    September 4, 2021 3:20pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Kev, the phrase “a religion of peace” is used disingenuously. In Islam it refers to the time when Islam is the ONLY religion, then it will be the “religion of peace”.
      
      It is not and never was a description of the religion as it exists now or in the past.
      
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      September 4, 2021 10:59pm
- Ronin
  
  100% agree
  
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  September 4, 2021 10:50am
- thirteenstars
  
  “…it was made illegal to even read, let alone share, his manifesto…”
  
  That was the most sickening and deeply disturbing aspect of the various suppressions. It was a stab at the heart of the Bill of Rights. The Censor should be ashamed of himself, which is what I told him in an email at the time. No reply.
  
  But worse, as usual, was the complete indifference by Kiwis to being told their delicate sensibilities would be offended by reading such (the nub of the hate speech laws), and worse, that they could not parse it in any other way than to pick up a gun and go on a similar rampage.
  
  I read it, and it’s no more than the typical rantings and imaginings of a deluded individual. Mein Kampf is far more offensive, yet strangely I feel no need to gas millions of Jews.
  
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  September 4, 2021 12:06pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    I read it too, on the day of the massacre, and had a slightly different view. I firmly believe he was trolling, but either way there was nothing in there that would have any adverse effect on a rational human being.
    
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    September 4, 2021 1:57pm
- paulscott
  
  There is 17 minutes of starter evidence available , before piles of other evidence totally refuting the accepted narrative. In this venue I will be lucky to have even that sentence published.
  
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  September 4, 2021 5:51pm
Kiwi_in_Paris

More dissent in the jibby jab ranks in the UK:

https://twitter.com/thelucyjohnston/status/1433804009849098248
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September 4, 2021 8:41am
lazza

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Here’s to TalkbackZb’s Miles Davis the host of their overnight am show quote:

“A more fine, honest and thoroughly admirable a President*** it would be hard to find … than Joe Biden”.

Hey Great … and about time someone said it … cos its true.

Go on Downtick away you Trump … fan (atics).

*** In my lifetime I can’t readily choose which past President … apart from Trump has been … “The Worst” (Trump wins hands down of course) …

Choose from Gerald Ford (Who?), peanuts Carter, demented Ronnie, Iraqi-WMD Bush Jnr, Lyin Bill C, and others … back to Ike.

Note the absence from the list of Obama … another fine, honest smart dude ehh? whose mana is intact in spite of all of the repellent right wing/racist vitriol.

Ditto Joe … with mana intact.,
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September 4, 2021 8:41am
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  Your post isn’t clear.
  Are you trying to inflame Trump admirers here (of which I am not one) and also saying that Biden is an awesome president (which he patently is not)??
  
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  September 4, 2021 9:54am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    I think it comes under the general category of “trolling” – best not to spend too much time thinking/debating.
    
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    September 4, 2021 11:00am
  - lifesgood
    
    Silly old lazza. He can’t get it when Davis is being sarcastic, ironic, having a laugh.
    
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    September 4, 2021 11:25am
- virtualmark
  
  Biden seems to be a good honourable man, but I think it’s a stretch to say he’s a great President.
  
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  September 4, 2021 11:20am
  - Fletch
    
    Based on what? Nothing in his history suggests this.
    Take a look at his whole career. Plagiarism in university and law school (where he lied about his qualifications), plagiarism when he first ran for President in the 80s, leading to him stepping down from the running. He racist stands on the bussing of black people as a senator, etc. His attacking of Clarence Thomas when Thomas ran for the Supreme Court.
    His touchy feely manner with young girls and women…
    
    Biden is not honorable by any stretch. The man is an out and out liar.
    
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    September 4, 2021 12:33pm
- Liberal Cliche
  
  Ah the random left wing comes in with unreadable scribbles something something muh ‘mana’
  
  Excuse me while a take a dive from your ego and die from free fall hitting the height of your IQ.
  
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  September 4, 2021 11:50am
I remember when

Isn’t it a perverse little world we live in.
New Zealanders hoping to have as few covid cases as possible and no deaths.
Not quite the same feelings by some towards Sweden.
Scared an alternative approach may be possible?
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September 4, 2021 8:42am
- Jack5
  
  Sweden’s approach is interesting, but Iceland’s, as mentioned in General Debate yesterday, is even more interesting.
  
  In the meantime, Sweden hasn’t got Covid-19 beaten yet.
  
  According to Reuters, infections in Sweden are increasing and are at the rate of 1,000 a day. Meanwhile, its vaccination rate seems to be about 60 per cent.
  
  https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/sweden/
  
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  September 4, 2021 10:03am
  - Cinematic
    
    Life is pretty normal in Sweden. Covid is like the flu, it will never be ‘beaten’.
    
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    September 4, 2021 10:47am
  - PhilBest
    
    https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/10/24/how-deadly-is-covid-19/
    
    https://sebastianrushworth.com/2021/01/25/heres-a-graph-they-dont-want-you-to-see/
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjskQpcy7Zg&ab_channel=IvorCumminsIvorCummins
    [The Return of our Swedish Doctor, explaining it ALL!]
    
    [Appreciate one commenter:
    …
    I’ve written down 3 points from this excellent video.
    1.If you cherry pick data you can prove what you like.
    2.We have learned from history that it is never the lies that are censored.
    3.The Covid response has been an episode of collective mass hysteria. (380 upticks) Mod.]
    
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    September 4, 2021 3:25pm
- virtualmark
  
  There’s lots of alternative strategies for dealing with Covid. None seem to have any great *economic* benefits of the others – everyone’s economy gets nuked no matter if that’s through mandated lockdowns and border shutdowns or through voluntary shut-ins and “No way I’m travelling there”. Every Western country has had much the same GDP smackdown.
  
  So the alternative strategies are mainly differentiated by their *health* costs/benefits to your society. We’re doing well on that front.
  
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  September 4, 2021 11:23am
  - PhilBest
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGYyi5DqOzE
    Ventilation and fresh air.
    
    Here is the scandalous tale of official obstruction:
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJSPL9LQCiM
    
    Much more scandalous now. That video is from last year.
    
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    September 4, 2021 3:28pm
Opie

What astonishingly good timing for this to happen just as the PM was getting hauled over the coals about the non release of information around the MIQ escapee and had even refused to front foot this, sending her deputy out instead.

Then this happens and shes good to go with a speech at the ready.
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September 4, 2021 8:43am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Obviously her media staff and speech writers are essential workers!
  
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  September 4, 2021 10:17am
  - Okahu
    
    Google docs and many others would achieve speech writing at a distance. Do you know those aids have travelled Tony or was that just an observation that speech writing is an art? And considered essential to all leaders?
    
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    September 4, 2021 2:39pm
Ruawai

The Governments 3 biggest Covid stuff ups are:
1. Not getting the vaccine early in significant volumes, currenltly we are locked down waiting for vaccination rates to reach 80-90%.
2. Not creating more ICU and Covid hospital beds in case of a major outbreak, currently we need to lock down to prevent hospitals being overrun.
3. Not building new specialist MIQ facility away from the main NZ business hub and population, this could have doubled as a hospital for less severe cases and post covid be used for emergency housing. Currently we are not letting New Zealanders return into the country due to MIQ being full of positive cases.

Where are you National these need to be the things you are banging on about and getting the economy back in shape.
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September 4, 2021 8:44am
- peterwn
  
  It is one thing to ‘bang on’ about things, and another whether the ‘banging on’ may backfire. National needs to take great care in making statements since Labour/ Green MP’s and supporters together with a generally hostile media will twist and misinterpret statements in any way possible and throw it back into National’s face. Truth and reasonableness does not come into it – it is all about perceptions, and Jacinda is a master of influencing perceptions.
  
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  September 4, 2021 10:06am
  - lifesgood
    
    So true peterwn. And National dare not make any policy statements because as sure as night follows day the Labour dimwits, who are unable to think for themselves, will copy them. Best to wait much closer to the election methinks.
    
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    September 4, 2021 11:28am
- crikey
  
  Where the hell do you get your information? National is doing a lot given its limited coverage by the so-called main-stream media.
  
  Go on, swallow your prejudices and follow National’s Facebook page, or their web site, then forward the links to others who might need some enlightenment. I suspect you’ll be surprised.
  
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  September 4, 2021 10:53am
- virtualmark
  
  Ruawai,
  
  The difference between being in Government and being a blog commenter is that Governments have to deal with reality’s constraints, not just “I command it” writing.
  
  1. What is your plan for when Pfizer says “The earliest I can deliver to you is late in Q1 2021, and even then it’s going to be slow deliveries until the second half of the year”? How would you change that?
  2. That one is fair and the MoH have been crap at sorting this (I’d also add they’ve been crap with saliva testing)
  3. What workforce of medical, security & support personnel are you going to staff it with? Think a facility big enough to secure, house, feed, treat etc at least 3,000 people (or more if you want to increase the number who can come across the border). I know the workforce issue is the main hurdle to the idea of, say, an Ohakea quarantine facility.
  
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  September 4, 2021 11:30am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Yep. “Back of an envelope” analysis throws up a few curly ones.
    
    Near a town? So workforce can commute. Far from a town? So an appreciable fraction of workforce need to live on site.
    
    How many people to accommodate? At least 2000. That’s about 1000 dwelling units. Anything smaller is not worth the bother. A block about 30 units square. More if there are on-site staff.
    
    Separate or communal cooking/eating/washing? If you make it communal it’s just basically a big hotel.
    
    Use existing features at Ohakea? No way do they have room for anything like 1000 semi-isolated new residents.
    
    Campervans? After the initial 180 people from Wuhan they didn’t try this one again. If it had been a goer they would have for sure.
    
    Resource consent and other paperwork? National emergency – could trample all over it.
    
    My best idea – if they decide to do it – build something vaguely like another Flaxmere – a satellite village within commute distance of a city. Buy it as a turnkey job from a firm in China who does that sort of thing – mining camps and all that. Walk straight over all the bullshit certification issues.
    
    There are negatives associated with any idea as to how this would be done. Probably enough to make sure that it will just collapse in an endless heap of shitfights. So any pollie is perfectly safe to promote is as an idea because it won’t ever happen.
    
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    September 4, 2021 12:08pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    1/ money talks
    3/ there is a vast pool of suitably qualified doctors and nurses internationally who could be enticed to move here with the right financial inducements. Also 18months gives you a lot of time for upskilling existing workers, certainly enough to create many thousands of ICU nurses specialised in treating covid for example.
    
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    September 4, 2021 12:10pm
  - MCos
    
    This article regarding empty beds at Christchurch Hospital is interesting https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/444479/christchurch-hospital-beds-empty-due-to-lack-of-nurses-doctor
    
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    September 4, 2021 1:01pm
  - Okahu
    
    Virtualmark. I can’t agree with your agreement of Ruawai’s second point. A senior medical practitioner pointed out when interviewed yesterday that it takes 4 years to become a fully qualified intensive care nurse. 7 years for a doctor. Those we train become targets for deep pocketed recruiters from offshore.
    
    The other pertinent observation is that had we the best Aussie stats of 8-9 beds/100,000 and were faced with an uncontrolled epidemic even that number, almost double our 5/100,000, would be overwhelmed in just a few extra days. Not weeks, days.
    
    Meantime where were the posts pre-pandemic for extra beds? Strangely our numbers have been just about adequate. Thus far. I recall a few White Island victims heading back to Oz for their critical care. Otherwise we manage.
    
    So what is being demanded is just the vast public expenditure normally decried by the Kiwiblog faithful. Twice the staff, all to be paid considerably more (to fend off the recruiters)? And what should they do between pandemics? Look busy? Some redundancy is warranted no doubt. But this ill considered suggestion is just to easy to make and bloody hard to practically and economically sustain in an economy such as ours.
    
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    September 4, 2021 3:15pm
Aquataur

Another glorious day in the Kafka-esque prison colony of Aotearoa.

Where it is legal to plan a terrorist attack, with the certainty of killing and maiming innocents

But

Where it is illegal to visit your mother for lunch, with an infintisemal chance of harming anyone.

Go figure why the authorities can bring in draconian legislation for the whole population within 24 hours but have known of this individual and the legal loophole for years, and have done nothing !
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September 4, 2021 8:52am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  I was thinking last night, The poor innocent victims of this monster were all being covid compliant QR codes, masks, obeying Cindy to a tee, the butcher is waltzing around the neighborhood with an entourage ready to pounce if he finally decides to do what he has been saying he is going to do for years.
  Maybe the government has a shopping roster for the rest on similar watch so innocent people don’t have to get mixed up in their very sick form of preventing people being flayed for an ideology.
  As for saying it is nothing to do with religion, one needs to know how integral “Allahu Akbar” is to the Muslim religion, it is almost like amen to other religions.
  It is used to strike fear into non believers.
  
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  September 4, 2021 10:32am
  - Nickc2
    
    Cindy’s making stuff as she goes. If this terrorist act had nothing to do with religion, how come a Judge previously sentenced this terrorist to twelve months home detention at a Mosque FFS?
    
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    September 4, 2021 1:26pm
    - jon
      
      And Ardern certainly conveniently omitted that info when she was giving a profile of the terrorists activities in NZ at her standup at 2pm today. Funny that!!
      
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      September 4, 2021 4:10pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I understand it to be a cry when facing martyrdom–they’re seeking a false hope.
    
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    September 4, 2021 4:19pm
- crikey
  
  Indeed, and now that amending legislation has been introduced to Parliament by a Labour government it is up to Labour to drive it to completion.
  
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  September 4, 2021 10:56am
I remember when

What are the odds:
On the 23rd March, 2020, Jacinda introduced the elimination strategy.
At that time the WHO was scrambling, scientists were discussing managing the curve and research was in its infancy.
However, looking carefully at the science Jacinda could instantly see that elimination was best for us scientifically.
Much water has since ‘passed under the bridge’ but she still knows that original decision was right.
Or, perhaps, she just knew that deaths wouldn’t be good for the government.
Helpfully, Boris and Donald were more hestitant and their being disliked (hated) by the Left made the decision instantly popular.
The ‘Kind’ that ensures support.
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September 4, 2021 9:05am
Simon

Valneva looks at this stage to be the ro vaxx to take.

Keep an eye on Valneva.

The Aust gubermint looking at it closely which is good. Its an old school vaxx and not the windows 95, warp speed, unsafe, jerry built, the spike protein is fine, you will need boosters and now pills pfizer crap.
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September 4, 2021 9:08am
- kevn
  
  @Simon… Had my 1st Valneva vaccine this week, another one only boost in 4 weeks. All part of a concluding final global trial.
  I’m happy with what it is.
  Didn’t want to be a fizzer customer forever.
  Fill your boots.
  
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  September 4, 2021 9:53am
  - MrTips
    
    I’m on the list for early 2022. Hopefully they keep their plan and do the follow up trial here.
    
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    September 4, 2021 11:04am
    - kevn
      
      @MrTips… The Valneva trial in NZ is on right now, I’m in it. Happily.
      
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      September 4, 2021 11:36am
- kevn
  
  @Simon… Uk has ordered 100 mil Valneva doses for later in the year.
  
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  September 4, 2021 10:46am
- virtualmark
  
  There will be a steady flow of better and improved vaccines. But speed to market has a quality all of its own too.
  
  Meanwhile … I predict that within 4 years from now Covid will be endemic through the global population and will be just another version of the common cold. No one will vaccinate against it any more.
  
  That is what has happened in the past when new novel coronaviruses first hit the human population. An initial pandemic, because our immune systems haven’t seen this specific virus before, followed by a decay to it being “just another common cold” as our immune systems learn to respond to it.
  
  The vaccines we’re taking right now just greatly reduce the fatalities from that “learning how to respond to it” phase.
  
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  September 4, 2021 11:36am
alloytoo

hearsay, but from a source I trust, asked me to consider that Tarrant was a false flag operation, suggested by his his earlier travels and access to remote areas in or near the Middle East.
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September 4, 2021 9:09am
- rouppe
  
  Notice how quickly Tarrant was a “white supremacist” but this guy isn’t an “Islamist”?
  
  Just a lone wolf, no affiliations, his living situation irrelevant, nope, nothing.
  
  Now let’s point at something else. I’m waiting for it, but I’m not going to say it. Possibly come from Golriz or Debbie Ngarewa-Packer
  
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  September 4, 2021 2:03pm
NK

Golly Gee in parliament in May denouncing the law change that would have prevented yesterday’s attack:

So we fear for our communities. It was Māori that raised the voices of the Muslim community and our migrants of colour after the Christchurch terror attacks and said, “Actually, this has happened here before. White supremacy does exist here.” That is what we need to address. Until we have the kind of reform that we need in our institutions, in the police force, and in the SIS that actually assure us that our communities are not going to be targeted, that our rights are not going to be undermined, this type of legislation has no place in this House. So, with regret, the Green Party will not be supporting this legislation. We want our communities to be safe. We stand against violence, against terror, but this is not the way to go about it, because we do not trust the prejudice riddled institutions that are getting this Draconian power today.
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September 4, 2021 9:12am
- Liberal Cliche
  
  Maori being used in radical political Rhetoric is beyond shameless. Nothing to do with Maori only building alliance’s against another race. That’s all Golriz is doing.
  
  They have all the political power control all the institution’s, live in luxury houses but some how White average joe working man plumber is oppressing them (as he gets stabbed by their allies in a supermarket).
  
  This people don’t live in any reality outside their twitter accounts.
  
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  September 4, 2021 9:48am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Golly Gee has just had a very harsh lesson served up to her, she needs to outline immediately her alternative method of stopping innocents being flayed in a super market by an ideological maniac screaming God is great. He isn’t looking anything like a white supremacist, her promises are futile and dangerous. I hope she has sleepless nights, but I think I am wrong.
  
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  September 4, 2021 10:40am
All_on_Red

Mikenmild is a great fan of the Congressman so no doubt he will be relieved about this
‘Florida Rep. Matt Gaetz has been exonerated after the Department of Justice indicted his accuser for extortion.

Stephen Alford, 62, was indicted this week for false accusations of sexual misconduct against the congressman, Townhall reported.

“Stephen M. Alford did knowingly and willfully devise, and intent to devise, a scheme to defraud and for obtaining money and property by means of material false and fraudulent pretenses, representations, and promises, and for the promise of executing such scheme, did cause, and attempt to cause, a wire communication to be transmitted in interstate commerce,” it said.’
https://conservativebrief.com/matt-gaetz-50208/
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September 4, 2021 9:13am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I’m sure he will be completely exonerated without a stain on his character at all
  /s
  
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  September 4, 2021 9:32am
PeeJay

So it’s a gorgeous day in Christchurch and being madly into skiing, the snow is still on the mountains taunting me to visit but I can’t go. Because we are in alert level 3. Why? Because…….well nobody can really say why, at least without sounding like a lunatic. Apparently a managed cluster in Auckland is justification for home detention for the entire country!

Again, why?

What’s really odd about this is with zero cases in the south island for a long time now, we should be in alert level 1 – most of new zealand should be able to get out this weekend under alert level 1 also – there is no covid cases in the majority of new zealand – only wellington and aukland. It’s arguable that both wellington and auckland should be at alert level 3 also, wellington almost have an argument for alert level 2.

But, as it gets harder to argue with the current alert levels for the rest of new zealand, right on cue, stuff have yet more ‘experts’ saying should the rest of the country move to alert level 2, this should be potentially for months through to christmas.

Again, I’m left wondering why?

What is wrong with these people!
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September 4, 2021 9:37am
- cmm
  
  It’s all to keep the Team together.
  
  Imagine the Jaffas responding to pictures of smiling faces at Mt Hutt.
  
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  September 4, 2021 11:17am
  - lifesgood
    
    I’ve been getting smug photos from friends around the country holding take away coffees and meals. I don’t think Auckland gets much love from the rest of NZ
    
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    September 4, 2021 11:33am
- Taieri
  
  But, as it gets harder to argue with the current alert levels for the rest of new zealand, right on cue, stuff have yet more ‘experts’ saying should the rest of the country move to alert level 2, this should be potentially for months through to christmas.
  ——————-
  
  You expect far too much. So far, the “experts” haven’t been even able to define and articulate what “local” means.
  
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  September 4, 2021 11:38am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Busy pukerooing the economy. Ski seasons have built the South Island.
  
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  September 4, 2021 4:13pm
Nickc2

The Afghan Cricket Team is due to tour Aust Nov – Dec 2021. I wonder what flag will be flown to represent Afghanistan? Will it be the Taliban flag? If so, I don’t think the Aussies will be too pleased. It should make for some exciting Cricket and Sledging though.
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September 4, 2021 9:56am
- kowtow
  
  Where are they now ?
  
  7 0
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  September 4, 2021 10:41am
  - Nickc2
    
    I believe they’re at Hungry Jacks in Kabul getting used to Bacon Burgers before they’re off to India to Play Ireland in a series of T20s in October.
    
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    September 4, 2021 12:54pm
- cmm
  
  I’m picking there are going to be a bunch of asylum seekers not wanting to go back.
  
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  September 4, 2021 11:16am
  - Nickc2
    
    Yea, once they get amongst them Aussie sheilas, there’ll be no turning back. Just saying.
    
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    September 4, 2021 12:02pm
  - kowtow
    
    Yep , unless ala Eastern European/Russian Soviet era the families are hostages.
    
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    September 4, 2021 12:44pm
Nukuleka

The Herald reports that the Sri Lankan terrorist was sentenced to one year’s supervision to be served at a West Auckland mosque. Is anyone asking the obvious question: what has that mosque been doing to deradicalise him? And if not, why not?
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September 4, 2021 10:02am
- lifesgood
  
  If I’m not mistaken there was some controversy regarding that particular mosque, in Sandringham I think, a few years ago.
  
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  September 4, 2021 11:34am
  - MCos
    
    Let’s start a rumour, shall we.
    
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    September 4, 2021 11:52am
- Nickc2
  
  One year’s supervision at a Mosque? Isn’t that a bit like putting a Rabbit in charge of a lettuce?
  
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  September 4, 2021 12:04pm
- rouppe
  
  Thinking the same thing.
  
  Very close scrutiny and possible revoking of residency visa for imam
  
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  September 4, 2021 1:51pm
Maggie Pie

RANDOM IMPERTINENT QUESTION…

Do they allow Polygamy in Mt Roskill?

Asking for a friend.
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September 4, 2021 10:03am
- MCos
  
  Polygamy of sorts is very common in Thailand.
  The King has a wife and another official consort both of whom often accompany him on big occasions.
  He also has a harem of about 20 young women.
  Many men have a wife they are married to plus as many minor wives as they can afford to look after.
  Some other married men who fancy the idea wind up with a knife in their back.
  My father in law had two wives & twenty children.
  
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  September 4, 2021 11:50am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    For some reason I thought your wife was Samoan?
    
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    September 4, 2021 2:33pm
MrTips

Bloody hell. Now that spring has come, we have a major resurgence of an old enemy in our house. Thought we had got rid of them and bombed the crap of them. But they’ve come back stronger than ever……..

TalibAnts™️
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September 4, 2021 10:15am
- Bill Felt
  
  Just hand the house over to them. Biden would do the same!
  
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  September 4, 2021 10:37am
  - MrTips
    
    Even the cat avoids them!
    
    8 0
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    September 4, 2021 11:07am
- Liberal Cliche
  
  I left my manuka jar lid off the other day, tragedy couldn’t even see the honey.
  
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  September 4, 2021 11:55am
- Nickc2
  
  All driving US Humvees no doubt?
  
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  September 4, 2021 12:07pm
artemisia

In other news, tax evaders are struggling in lockdown. No work, no wage subsidy. No sympathy.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2021/09/coronavirus-black-market-workers-who-don-t-pay-tax-struggling-without-access-to-wage-subsidy.html
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September 4, 2021 10:21am
- rouppe
  
  That latter one is the worst one. It’s not just that he’s not paying “a bit of tax”. He’s pulling accommodation supplement, a disability allowance for their child, and Working for Families.
  
  That’s sucking a lot out of the system while he’s avoiding obligations to put into it.
  
  No sympathy and seems like a good candidate for an ird audit
  
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  September 4, 2021 1:49pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  My heart bleeds for them. They get paid illegally and want the same as a subsidy?
  Has Alice joined the wonderful govt team too?
  
  Us bennies a have reliable pay scheme.
  
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  September 4, 2021 4:09pm
Yvette

Robertson has described the escape as ‘relatively low risk,’ but this only shows further hypocrisy.
It seems Delta is ‘relatively low risk’ when the Government is in trouble. On the other hand, the South Island remains in lockdown because the Prime Minister says ‘there’s just no margin for error with Delta.’

Going back a little, but still involving “attitudes” –
Beehive release – Statement from the Prime Minister on Dr David Clark – April 7, 2020
“Yesterday evening the Health Minister advised me of his trip to a beach during the lockdown and offered his resignation,” Jacinda Ardern said.
“Under normal conditions I would sack the Minister of Health. What he did was wrong, and there are no excuses.
“But right now, my priority is our collective fight against COVID-19. We cannot afford massive disruption in the health sector or to our response. For that reason, and that reason alone, Dr Clark will maintain his role. [1]

Since avoiding this “massive disruption in the health sector” –
• Ardern has accepted Clark’s resignation
• Ardern has approved Little’s proposal to replace 20 DHBs and establish a Maori Health Authority.
• We now seem to have six Health Ministers – Ardern, Bloomfield, Hipkins, Little, Robertson and Verrall
• Then doubts over the low, slow vaccine roll-out
• nurses and medical staff protests
• reduced ICU bed numbers, and now
• vaccine supplies – Hipkin’s reputed delays delivery, Verrall’s seeming dampening down of vaccinations, and projected supply run out
• and tardy advice of a covid positive escapee.

and I am sure I have missed a few other slightly “massive disruptions” …

[1] https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/statement-prime-minister-dr-david-clark
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September 4, 2021 10:37am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho0Pg40Z0Mc

Joefeld.

It looks like Putin has a hidden Camera in the WH basement. [2:28]
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September 4, 2021 10:45am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZygyYBF38U

China Could “Paralyze” Taiwan’s Military.

Taiwan says China could “paralyze” its military if it wanted to. That’s concerning because the Chinese Communist Party considers Taiwan a part of China, and has threatened to take it back by force if necessary. The quad, an alliance between the US, Japan, India and Australia, is doing military drills in the South China Sea. And Chinese teachers have a new mandate: to plant the seeds of socialism in the hearts and minds of their students. Watch this episode of China Uncensored for that and more of this week’s China news headlines. [12:22]
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September 4, 2021 10:45am
- rouppe
  
  What do you mean “new mandate”.
  
  That’s always been their mandate
  
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  September 4, 2021 1:38pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_dAUPW1XDY

Taliban holds ‘chilling’ victory parade.

The Taliban held a ‘chilling’ victory parade to mark America’s retreat. On display were suicide bombers, rockets, barrel bombs & armoured vehicles. Meanwhile, at another Taliban parade in Kandahar, a top leader declared ‘May Islam spread to the entire world’. WION’s Palki Sharma gets you a report. [7:35. But Kabul Joe said all the weapons left behind had been disabled. Did he forget a few thousand? I guess there weren’t any Pride flags at the parade?]
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September 4, 2021 10:45am
- Liberal Cliche
  
  ‘chilling’
  
  I guess it is when your neo-liberal democracy just got obliterated by goat herders and rusty AK’s.
  
  “If you wait by the river long enough the bodies of your enemies will float by” -Sun tzu
  
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  September 4, 2021 11:35am
  - Jack5
    
    Liberal Cliche’s goat herders and rusty AK’s.
    
    The Afghan tribesmen have one of the greatest marksmanship traditions in the world, and they had a lot of foreign Islamic help with IED technology.
    
    The Taleban ill-equipped, innocent and non-fighting peasants? That’s laughable.
    
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    September 4, 2021 2:27pm
  - curry4me
    
    Liberal Cliche: And the man who made it possible is ‘chilling’ at home with a big tub of designer icecream from Nancy Pelosi.
    
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    September 4, 2021 7:40pm
MrTips

The Taliban knows which side their naan is buttered on. Do they go with dumplings?
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September 4, 2021 11:14am
I remember when

Stuff: Refrigerated container shortage costing billions:
Venture Timaru CE: “Acute shortage of refrigerated containers should be the country’s most important priority.”
So the we can “get their products to their global markets where demand has never been greater.”
“NZ can not afford reduced production because of inconsistent or non-existent container supply.”
“The Government should consider a road, rail and seas logistics strategy.”
Sea freight export receipts are close to $55 billion on an annual basis.
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September 4, 2021 11:15am
- kevn
  
  @I rem… A ‘Logistics Strategy’… this clown circus? Good luck
  
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  September 4, 2021 2:11pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Imagine a vaccine so safe you have to be threatened to take is, for a disease so deadly you have to be tested to know you have it ….
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September 4, 2021 11:45am
Tony Stuart

Todd McClay had a win yesterday, demonstrating that Opposition MP’s can still get things done quickly. Constituents contacted him about an apparent anomaly in the Resurgence Support Payment, which meant businesses that had been trading for less than six months were ineligible. Of course, this is a time where a new business is especially vulnerable.

So he wrote to Grant Robertson to make his case, and Robertson, to his credit agreed. The eligibility point is now one month. We hear a lot about how the role of the Opposition is to hold the Government to account, and at a macro level, that might be the case. But Opposition MP’s can also help their constituents at a micro level, and well done to McClay for doing just that. If he can keep a few businesses from going under whilst their activity is restricted, he’s done a bloody good job.
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September 4, 2021 11:53am
BananaLlama

This governments complete dog shit. Terror attacks, Covid lock downs, Ballooning debt, separatism, racism and continued restriction of freedoms for New Zealanders.
Future generations are going to laugh at how she was our George Bush.
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September 4, 2021 12:09pm
- dcrane
  
  So true. As with W, her reputation is propped up by “rally round the leader in wartime” sentiment. Had there been no evil covid attacking NZ like Al Qaeda attacked America, it’s debatable she would have been re-elected even with National’s internal crisis.
  
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  September 4, 2021 3:26pm
Yvette

ISIS-inspired Terror attack
An Islamic community leader says the terror attack in Auckland’s LynnMall yesterday is extremely sad and disturbing.
An ISIS-inspired man entered a Countdown supermarket in New Lynn and stabbed and injured six people before being shot by dead by the police.
Hanif Quazi, who’s the co-founder of Christchurch’s Al Noor mosque and the Federation of Islamic Associations, says some people misinterpret Islamic teachings and have no understanding of the religion.
He says the Islamic community is aware of its responsibility to be aware of people who may have been influenced by extremist ideology and will not hesitate to report them to the police.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/450730/live-updates-lynnmall-terrorist-attack

6.14pm: Armed police remain on the Glen Eden street where the man lived. A mosque on the street is connected to the incident, 1 NEWS understands.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/reactions-flood-in-after-west-auckland-terrorist-attack?auto=6270725025001

Do we need to know why the “mosque on the street is connected to the incident”?
Did the terrorist, despite his extreme views, worship there, or has it really no relevance other than media speculation?
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September 4, 2021 12:10pm
- rockape
  
  No he lived there it was his bail address. No conection whatever, Tui Ad.
  
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  September 4, 2021 6:56pm
JibberJabber

https://spectator.com.au/2021/09/the-bribing-of-the-new-zealand-media/

“Trustworthy, insightful, important” — one thing we can say for our mainstream media is that they must think we are a pretty thick lot. The New Zealand Herald’s generous assessment of its own performance is paralleled by Stuff’s brag of “truthful, independent and trusted journalism”, and incredibly enough, also asking us to support “Independent NZ-owned journalism”. Did they mean to say “Government-owned Journalism’?

To use the word corruption is unchallengeable, when any government pays media outlets to propagandise the public — with the same outlets untruthfully claiming to be independent and trustworthy — while basically being bribed to follow a far-Left agenda. That this should happen in not (quite yet) a totalitarian régime, but in what was once thought of as a democracy, with a free press, is quite staggering.
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September 4, 2021 12:27pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  It is so far reaching that even the TAB mispell the names of the Wanganui Jockey Club and the Wanganui Greyhound Racing Club on their website.
  Apparently that is because, through the TAB’s gross ineptitude, they had to bailed out by the taxpayer for millions in March 2020.
  
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  September 4, 2021 2:55pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

How about a laugh?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hVQp1Wxl1w
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September 4, 2021 12:29pm
- LauraNorda
  
  Steve, that is similar to the main street of Taumarunui on Pension Day. Dead dangerous.
  Thankfully it only happens every second Tuesday.
  
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  September 4, 2021 5:05pm
MrTips

NEJM letter on delta infections in vaccinated vs unvaccinated health care workers in San Diego, between March-July 2021. 75% of cases were vaccinated and attack rate increase between June-July was 6x steeper in vaccinated vs unvaccinated (Table 1). Vaccines used were Moderna and Pfizer, almost equally.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2112981?query=featured_home
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September 4, 2021 12:51pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

A smoking gun:
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/08/24/exclusive-true-the-vote-conducting-massive-clandestine-voter-fraud-investigation/https://www.truethevote.org/news-posts/the-breitbart-article-true-the-vote-update

“Truethevote” has uncovered hundreds of mail-in-ballot stuffing operatives in Georgia and Arizona from cell phone location ping data and nearby video surveillance of ballot drop boxes in these two states. These operatives, using burner phones and rental cars (some of which have been identified) have been tracked along routes of between 10 and 50 widely distributed ballot boxes spread across numerous counties in the middle of the night to stuff groups of ballots from backpacks while wearing gloves (from video surveillance). There is no possible benign explanation for this.

Evidence gathered has been handed to law enforcement, and if not acted upon will be released publicly (adding a lot of pressure to politicians preventing audits).
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September 4, 2021 12:52pm
Maggie Pie

Just been out lounging by the pool and listening to a few of the tracks off Kanye’s new ‘DONDA’ album.

Actually prefer the Covid-19 test announcements.

SHEEESH!!
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September 4, 2021 12:57pm
- Cinematic
  
  Not sure you’re the target market Maggie. By a few decades.
  
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  September 4, 2021 1:21pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  Rod Liddle in the Spectator:
  
  The nicest thing one can say is that this is a marginally better album than we would have got from either of the other two presidential candidates. Just about. But sheesh, it’s still nearly two hours of the most repetitive, spiritless, god-bothering music you will ever hear, full of portentousness and self-pity and utterly devoid of any insight or humour. Rap, trap, snap, all the tiresome bases covered. Decent tunes and memorable rhythms are few and far between.
  
  I like West, the man, for his stoic refusal to kowtow to the stupid liberal orthodoxies demanded by the music business. But his self-importance is now so bloated he resembles Mr Creosote from Monty Python’s The Meaning of Life, in those terrible few seconds before he eats a final wafer-thin mint.
  
  For Donda — a paean to his dead mum — West has employed almost everybody who has ever worked in the music industry. That suggests to me a lack of faith in his songwriting. The album begins with Syleena Johnson saying the word ‘Donda’ 58 times, to no accompaniment — and this sets the tone for the autotuned album. Sure, repetition can be effective, but here it grates and bores. There are one or two moments worth savouring — the cute Lauryn Hill sample on ‘Believe What I Say’, the rather strange and pretty ‘Moon’ and the gospelish ‘No Child Left Behind’.
  
  Most of the time the music is stuck in the dullest monotone rap frequency and one is lost as to who Kanye is singing about — Jesus Christ, his ex Kim Kardashian, his late momma or, more likely, himself. If you ever wondered what rap might be like without all the bragging, here you go. You’re welcome.
  Rod Liddle
  
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  September 4, 2021 1:23pm
rouppe

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/126285302/countdown-foodstuffs-remove-knives-from-sale-following-terror-attack

I am sick of having my life limited more and more by the sins of a few.

This spiral to the lowest common denominator will have us back to the seventh century and then they really will have won
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September 4, 2021 1:05pm
Maggy Wassilieff

uh oh….

Looks like our Border workers and their families need booster shots….soon.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2021/09/coronavirus-expert-warns-waning-immunity-makes-border-workers-a-ticking-time-bomb.html
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September 4, 2021 1:11pm
lazza

25 down ticks one uptick … to my (stalking horse) post supporting Biden.

As a lithmus text of the current flavour of KB it is very! revealing.

Setting aside those who genuinely don’t support my view and based on a FAIR assessment of the man … and as I said … “compared with other useless past Presidents that is”. ..would it be fair to conclude that the polling reflects a KB that is now inhabited by like minded right leaning reactionaries’?

Not more than a single view in support. (Sigh).

Oh well.

Me … I prefer evenhanded informed debates and try to avoid the echo chambers.

Is there anyone else (anyone) out there who agrees.? with my view?

And BTW Miles was not insincere in his pro Joe (his-Joe’s “personal” character) views.

Neither am I.
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September 4, 2021 1:17pm
- dcrane
  
  Trolling draws downticks. A good sign.
  
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  September 4, 2021 3:23pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  Cheer up lazza. There’s still surprisingly 39% of Americans that somehow don’t think the dumpster fire and all round trash human being Joe “Dementia” Biden should resign ?
  
  Although be careful to which Democrats you talk to as:
  32% of Democrats say Biden should resign immediately.
  40% of Democrats say Biden deserves to be impeached.
  33% of Democrats say Kamala Harris is not qualified to be President.
  
  https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1433945871851401221
  
  Also at least 20% of Biden voters regret voting for him. And this was before he unconditionally surrendered to the Taliban. So that number is of course substantially higher now.
  
  https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/09/zogby-poll-20-biden-voters-regret-voting-joe-biden-2020/
  
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  September 4, 2021 3:56pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Biden was clearly (pre election from laptop evidence + Hunter’s shenanigan’s) repugnant as majorly on the take, and undoubtedly in control of PRC and domestic blackmailers. Even worse than the hideous ‘pay for play’ secretary of state Hillary in that regard – getting hundreds in millions in payoffs via speaking fees for her husband, but perhaps not as vulnerable to blackmail.
  
  But add to that Biden is also clearly in serious mental decline, at least a decade too old for the job, and even at his decades past best never demonstrated the moral or mental horsepower for the job (endless exposures of lies through his half century career have nobbled his ambitions again and again), he’s worse even than Trump in that regard. There is no honest defense of his presidency possible, all other 2020 Dem pres candidates would have been better, possibly excepting intellectually weak shag-her-way-to-the-top sociopathic diversity hire Harris.
  
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  September 4, 2021 4:17pm
lazza

Google … Awkward School Reunion | Harry Enfield and Chums | BBC Comedy Greats

… for a bit of a laff.
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September 4, 2021 1:20pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/126285302/countdown-foodstuffs-remove-knives-from-sale-following-terror-attack
How stupid.
Are they also going to search every customer who walks through the door ?
Are they going to remove frozen legs of lamb in case they are used to club someone? Or every bottle which could become a lethal weapon? Cindy really has done a job of eliminating common sense in NZ.
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September 4, 2021 1:22pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Wine and beer to be put in plastic bottles. Plastic plastic plastic! See where the loopy left are going with this?
  
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  September 4, 2021 1:34pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Plastic makes great power generation fuel!
    
    It burns very cleanly if you force inject air and burn at high temps. You can by off the shelf units that do just that.
    
    Pretend to “recycle” it and eventually chuck it in a hole in the ground instead??? Go figure.
    
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    September 4, 2021 3:16pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Buy, not “by”. ?
      
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      September 4, 2021 3:33pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Except for PVC (chlorine)
      
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      September 4, 2021 4:18pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        UrbanNeocolonialist yes nobody should burn plastic at home.
        
        However even PVC is taken care of properly by modern waste to energy plants.
        
        https://waste-management-world.com/a/pvc-to-burn-or-not-to-burn
        
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        September 5, 2021 1:57pm
- Fletch
  
  #KneeJerk 2.0
  
  Countdown are also removing scissors, according to a community post from them I read.
  
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  September 4, 2021 1:35pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  Caustic oven cleaning spray
  
  You’re welcome…
  
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  September 4, 2021 1:36pm
- lifesgood
  
  FFS! Who are the bloody morons at Countdown? Do they think everyone is going to go in and start stabbing people? A few cars crash into trees, should we chop down all the trees? People fall off ladders, should we do away with ladders, etc, etc, etc. Shit happens but it doesn’t mean it’s going to keep happening. I gave up shopping at Countdown some time ago, all the more reason to never go back.
  
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  September 4, 2021 1:38pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Not just Countdown, the other sheeple supermarkets are doing the same
    
    5 1
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    September 4, 2021 2:37pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Honestly GB, the entire world has completely lost it!
  
  My partners mum came across the other day to show us the new VR sunnies she got from Specsavers.
  They gave her a little bottle of Lens Cleaner. Made in Chyna.
  Across the base of the label it said…. ‘Do not spray directly in eyes’
  
  LOL!!
  
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  September 4, 2021 1:44pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  Side note (but thanks for reminding me with your mention of the frozen leg of lamb) – Roald Dahl wrote an excellent short story in 1953 called Lamb to the Slaughter.
  
  Have a read if you can find it.
  
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  September 4, 2021 2:12pm
- artemisia
  
  Recall reading a story where a frozen leg of lamb was indeed used as a murder weapon. By the time the police arrived it was sizzling merrily in the oven next to the parsnips.
  
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  September 4, 2021 3:52pm
mandk

Stuff dishonestly reporting that woman in North Shore hospital died of Covid, when not even the MOH is saying this.

It seems she was in her 90s and her underlying health conditions were such that it was clinically inappropriate for her to receive ventilation or be in ICU.
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September 4, 2021 1:30pm
- mandk
  
  Looks like Stuff has changed its headline to say that the woman died with COVID.
  
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  September 4, 2021 2:05pm
  - Cinematic
    
    Substitute covid for flu or salmonella or dysentery. It’s pretty clear delta is only capable of tipping people over the edge. Jacinda, Baker, Jackson etc think that justifies locking up all the fit and healthy. Nut bars.
    
    9 0
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    September 4, 2021 2:55pm
- DeepBlue
  
  The reality of triaging patients in a stretched health service.
  
  4 0
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  September 4, 2021 3:00pm
Chuck Bird

I am almost a third of the way through Simon’s book. I am impressed so far. Has anyone else read it?
5 1
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September 4, 2021 1:43pm
Tauhei Notts

The great part about Kiwiblog is that knowledgeable people from all walks of life contribute.
So if anybody who knows plenty about railways can tell me why a shunting locomotive was driven into the sea at Picton; I want to know.
Those are very expensive machines, and I reckon the recovery process would have been hugely expensive.
7 0
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September 4, 2021 1:45pm
- DeepBlue
  
  I’d say the remote control shunter is having his phone and text records examined.
  
  3 0
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  September 4, 2021 2:57pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Ozzies. Spreads faster than a hooker’s legs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnBtOPUMyqU
2 6
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September 4, 2021 1:48pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Thanks for the downtick Mike
  
  1 5
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  September 4, 2021 2:38pm
Flossie

Delta turns deadly apparently. A woman in her 90s, with other health conditions, has died in hospital.
Sympathy to her family and friends.
11 2
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September 4, 2021 1:55pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  That wasn’t delta but her friend, medical triage consultant–too useless to continue or too far gone to be bothered.
  
  4 1
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  September 4, 2021 3:57pm
Cinematic

I’ve no idea why Jacinda and Andrew think a presser is necessary for what has to be one of the least significant terrorist acts in modern history.
9 2
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September 4, 2021 2:05pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  You do know, and we should not have to explain the paid for NEWS to you. Come on – really? really??
  
  5 2
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  September 4, 2021 3:41pm
- crikey
  
  “I have to remind my disciples how kind I am”.
  
  Miracles to come shortly.
  
  5 0
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  September 4, 2021 6:07pm
Cinematic

Oh and apparently a 90 year old had a covid related death today and Jacinda said this is why we need to have lockdowns. It’s the muppet show folks.
23 2
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September 4, 2021 2:07pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  If only she read and understood the shit she spouts
  
  9 3
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  September 4, 2021 2:39pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The lady was too sick to be put in ICU or ventilated..
  
  It said she had a number of underlying health conditions, which meant it was not clinically appropriate for her to receive ventilator or ICU care.
  https://www.newsroom.co.nz/20-new-cases-one-death
  
  Doesn’t seem like a classic Covid-19 death.
  
  15 0
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  September 4, 2021 3:48pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Not a Covid death at all. Age+Covid, normal.
    
    Is it rational locking down all because some elderly are on their way to visiting the undertaker and covid sneaks up to possibly hasten it?
    
    We always have the elderly popping off.
    
    11 1
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    September 4, 2021 3:53pm
  - kevn
    
    @Maggy… Bit like pneumonia. They call it the old mans friend in some circles.
    
    7 0
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    September 4, 2021 6:02pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  ??? Is the amateur PM’s mind that simple? The Diamond Princess showed that only 1/4 of one percent would succumb out of the infected That percentage has held from the outset in world reports.
  
  The group most at risk were… 80+. The 10-19 cohort who were just breaking into real life were similar. The rest could be ignored. (It was a bit higher from 70.)
  The ones taken were all suffering from other illnesses like diabetes or heart conditions.
  
  That demographic breakdown has been consistent and clearly showed we didn’t need to lock up our families but be aware gt. grand dad was at risk. The c-19 could trigger other illnesses to exert their final call. That has been hushed up, autopsies have not been performed. Any death with c-19 nearby has been attributed to that.
  
  How can decisions be made when the basic stats are so mangled? No wonder the PM has been fooled by “medical advisors”. They have deceived themselves.
  
  The cost of the unnecessary lock down has been enormous. Any other affect or cost has been ignored. I sense community mental health under threat. Do the hospitals need to be flooded with patients or is that a programmed response too? Does one treatment fit all? Admittedly a breathing difficulty may need temporary help. I understand the swamping of the hospitals is what has been said to justify lock downs. Do they need to be swamped? Aren’t other treatments available?
  
  7 1
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  September 4, 2021 3:49pm
CAKE FACE1

Out of interest, was the 90 year old vaccinated?

If not, why not?

Given the ultra slow roll-out of the vaccine, could Cindy be guilty of manslaughter?
15 1
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September 4, 2021 2:25pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Good luck with that! Jaspinda is guilty of NOTHINK except being kind
  
  8 2
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  September 4, 2021 2:41pm
- dcrane
  
  Can’t find that info. Makes me guess the answer is yes, but it could go either way.
  
  8 1
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  September 4, 2021 3:17pm
I remember when

Just a thought.
You have a suspect under constant surveillance and have previously gone to court because of knife attack worries.
Is it unreasonable to ‘frisk’ him for weapons when he is leaving his premises.
Or is that harassment.
9 1
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September 4, 2021 2:36pm
- Inandout
  
  Irw, much like kiwibuild, aspirationally a good idea but somehow just doesn’t get done. From your suggestion one presumes the suspect knew of the constant surveillance. In any case I can tell from experience watching people can be mind numbingly boring and your attention can easily slip.
  
  5 1
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  September 4, 2021 3:17pm
lifesgood

So a 90 year old with several underlying conditions dies “of covid”. And her family are devastated, devastated? For goodness sake she made it to 90 how long did they expect her to live. I’m sorry for sounding cynical but this is really just getting beyond a joke. It’s devastating when a young person dies but not a 90 year old. It’s sad for the family and all but inevitable.
22 2
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September 4, 2021 2:37pm
- dcrane
  
  And we will see little no news on the 90–95 other people who die in the next 24 hours (the number who die on average)…assuming we don’t get another knife attack.
  
  The obsession with covid deaths is hurting New Zealand and the press and government are primarily to blame.
  
  18 1
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  September 4, 2021 3:11pm
  - all true
    
    Excuse me, 90 plus years old person with medical conditions. The disgusting PM and the even more disgusting Press only announce this one, because it suits their political agenda. There are every day older people die without making headlines!!!
    
    14 1
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    September 4, 2021 3:42pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Back in context, some did not make 22
  
  3 2
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  September 4, 2021 4:12pm
- krazykiwi
  
  92 people die each day in New Zealand.
  
  20 of these people are women aged 85+
  
  11 1
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  September 4, 2021 6:32pm
Maggie Pie

A bestie from tennis has an uncle who works at Paree.
She was saying he was telling them Tarrant breathed a sigh of relief when he heard they’d killed the Countdown terrorist.
Reckoned the last thing he’d have wanted is to have the prick on the same wing.
9 3
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September 4, 2021 2:44pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

This AOC bimbo is off her tits. Typical fucked up Democrat Marxist. This will get downticked here – pity we can’t know who the NZ Marxist/Commies are.
https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/disgusting-aoc-claims-that-war-in-afghanistan-was-immoral-death-of-marines-the-human-cost-of-war/?
7 5
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September 4, 2021 3:24pm
Bazmeister

I see the Supermarkets are removing knives as some sort of panicked reaction. Wonder what would happen if this event had taken place in Bunnings…?
10 0
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September 4, 2021 3:36pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Fucking axes! (machetes sort of knife with a long handle) Next? Lawnmowers – coz no lazy prick will buy them let anyone use them.
  Manual hedge clippers are a weapon of mass destruction (electric is what the green fuckers want)
  
  4 2
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  September 4, 2021 4:20pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Yep typically insane over-reaction. Welcome to NZ in the 2020’s.
  
  Wait till supermarket companies hear about the murderous potential of cars in their carpark, or wine bottles, or cookware, or every other heavy/dense item on display, or peanut butter (anaphylaxis), or bleach, or combustible spray cans.
  
  And obviously they will need to ban knives from their butchers, delis and bakers depts as well as strip-search everyone coming in as well in case they are carrying weapons.
  
  8 1
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  September 4, 2021 4:31pm
Aquataur

From the lying lips of the PM

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern expressed her condolences to the family and loved ones of the person who died from Covid-19 overnight.

“Every death is a reminder of the damage Covid-19 can cause when it gets into our community,” she said.

I’d much rather she was honest about sending condolences to the families of the many that have died because of her response to Covid – the suicides (I Know of 3), the ones who missed out on treatments, etc
18 1
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September 4, 2021 4:04pm
- kowtow
  
  But none for the woman who died from the vax .
  
  She and Dr Blofeld didn’t even bring it up , it was a reporter.
  
  11 0
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  September 4, 2021 4:52pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Nothing is more important than slavish compliance to the WHO/UN/Davos narrative. Ignoring all else, stoke the fear, promote the vaccine, and prepare the people for global bio passports. This is the mission.
    
    8 1
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    September 4, 2021 6:13pm
jon

Note that Trump is leading Biden 47% to 46% in Real Clear Politics for the next Presidential election!!
9 2
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September 4, 2021 4:13pm
- Batman
  
  Polls are useless and irrelevant: 2017-2020.
  
  Polls are extremely accurate and important: 2021-
  
  3 12
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  September 4, 2021 4:19pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Far canal, I up ticked you Batman, even though you diverted as usual
    
    4 2
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    September 4, 2021 4:23pm
    - Batman
      
      The upside of current neo-conservatism is that you simply remove any attempt at integrity or consistency, allowing one to adopt whatever position you like, hour to hour or even comment to comment!
      
      Thus, polls are now the official harbinger of doom for Biden, whereas worse polls for Trump were merely crooked fake news.
      
      It is quite amusing, more than anything else.
      
      2 14
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      September 4, 2021 4:42pm
      - Cobolt24
        
        Rare upvote from me
        
        0 0
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        September 4, 2021 5:48pm
  - I remember when
    
    21 is when you get to be an adult.
    
    0 1
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    September 4, 2021 4:33pm
    - Batman
      
      happy days, I’ve been an adult for over a decade then ?
      
      0 11
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      September 4, 2021 4:48pm
      - lifesgood
        
        Oh just a kid then. I long suspected that. Wisdom comes with age.
        
        2 1
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        September 4, 2021 5:07pm
  - rockape
    
    How about we just leave it as polls have a left wing bias, even when they show the right leading!
    
    2 0
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    September 4, 2021 6:41pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Batbait. Wham!
  
  6 1
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  September 4, 2021 4:21pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Now watch him disappear into the wilderness, and not debate!!!!!
    
    4 2
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    September 4, 2021 4:25pm
    - Batman
      
      Quite happy to chat about Biden’s current crap polling. The political pitfalls of withdrawing from Afghanistan were always going to be steep/large/whatever phrase you care to use.
      
      Heck, if Trump was still in office, we would have been having this conversation in May/June and it probably would have been even messier with Stephen Miller slow-walking special visa applications via his role as Chief White House Immigration prevention officer, and even more equipment left behind for the Afghans which ended up with the Taliban, after the rush to exit.
      
      3 13
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      September 4, 2021 4:39pm
      - kevn
        
        @bat… Now I’m convinced you are here just to amuse us.
        
        7 0
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        September 4, 2021 5:13pm
krazykiwi

From The Telegraph

San Francisco to pay residents $300 a month not to shoot people

People deemed to be at risk of committing violent crimes will be given vouchers if they keep their weapons holstered.

Just imagine. A few months of keeping that crappy handgun in the top drawer, and the disciplined scumbag could afford to upgrade to a decent semi… to really get back in the game.
6 2
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September 4, 2021 4:20pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Gets votes for Nancy
  
  1 3
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  September 4, 2021 4:26pm
- Nickc2
  
  Vote-buying – so fucking blatant. Newsom borrows another Trillion to pay citizens to obey the law. Surely, not everyone in California is that dumb. They certainly weren’t the last time I was there but they didn’t have the same Governor then.
  
  6 3
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  September 4, 2021 4:27pm
lazza

Hey Chuck you said …

“I am almost a third of the way through Simon’s book. I am impressed so far. Has anyone else read it?”

Same here and already I have changed my mind about Simon. A future PM … due to his honesty humility and all round experience and competence so evident from a (part) reading of his bio “]National Identity”.
12 1
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September 4, 2021 4:46pm
- Wired-one
  
  “honesty humility and all round experience and competence”
  
  Ardern didn’t need any of that to become PM and was voted back in displaying the complete opposite to all that. Hence its not a prerequisite. You just need some media fangirls, a few slogans and some promises you will never deliver on.
  
  10 1
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  September 4, 2021 7:26pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  I know him reasonably well. We had some good conversations at the AGM in Auckland.
  
  I think Judith is doing a good job but it is hard work when Cindy has bought the media with our money.
  
  Simon could make PM but do not think it will try to roll Judith unless someone else does.
  
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  September 4, 2021 9:17pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING….a bezzie tweets 🙁

Is the Harbor Bridge fit for purpose?

WAKA KOTAHI sat on a Confidential Report for months showing the bridge piles are sitting on ‘exceptionally weak’ ground conditions.

I mean it sounds like the structure could collapse at any time…..yet the Herald keeps the revelations behind their premium paywall! Obviously couldn’t give a stuff for people with holiday homes at Tindalls.

https://twitter.com/AlisonSubi/status/1433967415134593028
12 1
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September 4, 2021 4:49pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Just putter up along the coast in your cruiser.
  
  9 2
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  September 4, 2021 5:05pm
- Nickc2
  
  Don’t be deceived. It may be a subterfuge to negate the building of a Cycle Bridge. It sounds a bit like something Michael Wood could pull.
  
  7 1
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  September 4, 2021 6:40pm
- Muttonbird
  
  Fallen on hard times, Maggie?
  
  A Herald subscription is only $2/week
  
  2 10
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  September 4, 2021 6:54pm
- graham
  
  Sorry, you lost me at WAKA KOTAHI.
  
  I work on the basic premise that if I can’t understand the headline or first sentence, then it’s probably not that important. Works a treat for me.
  
  7 2
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  September 4, 2021 7:37pm
kevn

@Maggie… Just drop over the hill to Kohi and rough it with the locals at their cafes. Should be able to hack a couple of hours there.
4 0
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September 4, 2021 5:08pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/126285369/auckland-terror-attack-pm-says-new-terror-laws-will-be-passed-this-month

” She also said the Government had sought to hurry changes to the terrorism laws in the months after the man was released into the community. The justice minister made a phone call to make this happen the day the attack happened”

More lies from the “Prime Minister”.
15 1
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September 4, 2021 5:38pm
- krazykiwi
  
  The “Prime Misleader”
  
  11 1
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  September 4, 2021 6:37pm
- Nickc2
  
  Yes, I don’t hear/see the MSM calling for the justice minister’s phone records to confirm the statement and who he called.
  
  8 1
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  September 4, 2021 7:03pm
Muttonbird

Rumours in the last hour Collins is about to be rolled.

Probably for the best.

But Simon tho?
0 20
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September 4, 2021 6:42pm
- Wired-one
  
  Ben Thomas is saying there is happenings going on in the Labour camp tonight too. Don’t always believe what you hear or read.
  
  9 1
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  September 4, 2021 7:21pm
  - Muttonbird
    
    Perhaps it’s nothing, but there’s a lot more activity on Shane Te Pou’s twitter, than Ben Thomas’.
    
    Maybe Ben doesn’t have any good contacts inside the National Party?
    
    0 11
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    September 4, 2021 7:45pm
ABS4EVA

Bound to be Some AUS CONNECTION
they will lie about that

Here is what her GVT DOES

CHANGE THE FLAG

https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/change-your-flag-australia-says-nz-s-acting-pm-20180725-p4ztgf.html

DO NOT DEPORT YOUR PROBLEMS

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/do-not-deport-your-people-and-your-problems-ardern-tells-pm-20200228-p545f3.html

KIWI CRIMINALS
HER ONE AND ONLY PRIORITY

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-28/jacinda-ardern-to-plead-with-scott-morrison-for-change-of-heart/12008262

Jacinda Ardern to plead with Scott Morrison to stop deporting New Zealanders

AUSSIES ARE NOT PERFECT and DO NOT PRETEND TO BE if they have one FAULT

THEY ARE TOO KIND

But break the LAW THERE IS THE DOOR
4 1
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September 4, 2021 7:07pm
fernglas

From Newsroom:
“New Zealand’s official Covid-19 death toll now stands at 27.

It is the first death attributed to the coronavirus since mid-February. Before this, nobody in New Zealand had died from Covid-19 since September 2020.”
So this death is someone 90 plus with existing conditions so severe she couldn’t even go into ICU. You may remember the February case; he came back from overseas to die at home from terminal cancer, which he did, but at the time of his death he tested positive for Covid-19, so it was put down as a Covid death. I remember Bloomfield skimming blithely over this in one of the press conferences. He may even have said “so of course it’s been recorded as a death from Covid”
They’re getting harder to believe all the time, aren’t they?
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September 4, 2021 7:07pm
- Muttonbird
  
  Yes, yes, but there’d be 10,000 people die like this if we went down the UK’s path.
  
  0 14
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  September 4, 2021 7:42pm
- Wired-one
  
  Would anyone actually realize we were in a pandemic if you weren’t constantly reminded of it?
  
  10 2
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  September 4, 2021 7:50pm
wilderbeast

All these vaccination ads on the TV. Does anyone yet know where it’s getting us? I mean I’ve gone and got vaccinated cos I figure it might offer me more freedom somehow or another and at the same time I play my part for everyone. But there’s no commitment from the government on whether it’s worth it. No target percentage. No date for discontinuing lockdowns. Maybe I shouldn’t have bothered…?
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September 4, 2021 9:52pm

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